From frustum at pacbell.net Tue Jul 1 02:15:01 2003 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:38 2005 Subject: APF Imagination Machine In-Reply-To: <1056963888.3efffd30e331b@my.visi.com> References: <003101c33d26$b5a8dc60$3c5986d1@earthlink.net> <1056963888.3efffd30e331b@my.visi.com> Message-ID: <3F013426.5000908@pacbell.net> kurtk7@visi.com wrote: > Hello all, > > I have contributed to the lists on occasion, but now I have a special favor. I > don't expect a response given the system, but you never know. Hope springs > eternal. On a regular basis there are requests for this system or that. For > reasons from simple curiousity to treasured memories of youth. Mine is the > latter. The first computer I ever saw, way back when in my younger days, on > the East coast, was the APF Imagination Machine ... At least you have the pleasure of having driven up the price for the guy who won it. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2737531463&category=4193&rd=1 They don't show up very often on ebay (not the computer part) and certainly the one that just sold was the most complete such system I've seen. In my own limited experience, you can probably get the system you want, but the highest leverage way I've found takes these two things: 1) put up a web page dedicated to the machine. a good one. one that shows you are serious about it and one that supplies a lot of interesting information. one that other people will find first when they do a web search. some day one of those people searching will be an owner of such a machine and they'll contact you. 2) patience. lots of it. I'm sure right now that feeling of needing to own one is overwhelming since you just got so close, but you must also realize that you spent the previous 20 years in bliss after having forgotten about the machine. It may take two or three years, but it does happen. The bees do eventually find the flowers. You can also go out and beat the bushes, do frequent google searches looking for other owners or people who mentioned owning one in an old usenet posting, haunt every goodwill/salvation army, hit lots of yard sales, etc, etc. The best approach is to do all of the above. I got the idea in my head to locate a wang 2200 four or so years ago. It was the machine I first learned to program. After two years of hitting nothing but dead ends and not seeing a single one on ebay or at any swap meet, I decided to put up a web site. Within 6 months I had one. A year later I had a second one. Oh, another cosmic side effect is that within a month of acquiring my first 2200, two showed up on ebay. Good luck finding that Imagination Machine. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Jul 1 02:44:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:39 2005 Subject: IBM 5285 In-Reply-To: <6074BC34-AB77-11D7-B317-0003937C53CC@paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <001301c33fa3$eb327ec0$0100a8c0@WaynePC> > > I haven't heard whether Wayne had found his documentation > or not. In > > the > > meantime, I've opened up the box and peeked around. It has > a mem card > > and a > > disk controller card for the 8" drives, that's about it. Big power > > supply on > > the bottom. > > Haven't progressed that far in the unpacking yet. I'm sitting in a room with about 85 unpacked (and largely unlabeled) boxes - my project for the 4th. -W From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Jul 1 02:49:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:39 2005 Subject: Modifying a B&W TV for composite video input In-Reply-To: <7B1878EC-AB65-11D7-B4E7-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <3F015960.22781.3D764BAD@localhost> > > I would think the easiest and cheapest way is to use a plain old RF > > modulator box that will put composite video on to channel 3 or 4. I've > > taken apart one or two and they seem to have little more than a few > > coils and small parts, a far cry from the rack mounted cable TV > > modulators I just picked up(ooohh... so many trimmer caps and > > coils...). I don't know a whole lot about it, but I'm slowly learning > > as my interest in fast scan ATV increases... The converter box I have > > goes with my TI-99, > Those little RF boxes don't really convert from composite to RF, they > just provide a switch and a connection to a TV antenna input. Communication error! While you where refering to the common (video game) switch boxes, John did mention modulators! they are usualy the same size (ok, the TI one is a true brick), but do what they are named, modulate the composite signal onto a TV carrier. The one I like most is the Amiga 520 (?). Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Jul 1 02:49:25 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:39 2005 Subject: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? In-Reply-To: References: <3F00D945.27525.3B81E487@localhost> Message-ID: <3F015960.21660.3D764B8E@localhost> > > > > Another alike thing is the Tandy DT2 - basicly a M4 with a > > > > cover where the disk drives go and a terminal software in > > > > ROM. it was ment as Terminal for the M2/M12. > > > By the way, I found one of those recently. > > I was driveing 500 Miles one way for mine .... > > :( > I had to walk all the way across the warehouse of the ACCRC to find it > sitting on a pallet. > :) More Tandys in the ACCRC? MINE, ALL MINE ...... :) -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Jul 1 03:54:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:39 2005 Subject: I got a HP9000 - now what? In-Reply-To: ; from kd7bcy@teleport.com on Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 23:43:49 CEST References: Message-ID: <20030701101705.C312595@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.06.30 23:43 John Rollins wrote: > I picked it up because it had a DomainRing card and other > Apollo-like ports. I finally figured out it's an HP9000, but I'm not > sure which one yet. The board is labeled A1421-66538. It has a 25MHz > 68040 CPU. Sounds like a HP9000 425s. (or 425e?) You can run Domain OS, HP-UX, 4.4BSD-Lite und NetBSD on it. (Maybe OpenBSD too.) I have 4.4BSD-Lite on my 433t. > The HP-IL keyboard port is a neat touch. You need a Domain keyboard for Domain OS and a HIL keyboard for the other systems. You can switch the boot ROM from Domain to HP-UX mode in the config menu... > Does this thing use a normal VGA monitor? Depends on the video card and VGA monitor. I don't know the 425s, but it schuold use a DIO framebuffer like my 433t. I have seen mono framebuffers with a SubD 9 and color framebuffers with 3 BNC connectors. You will need a multisync VGA monitor that is able to do sync on green and a BNC - SubD 15 cable. > Any pointers to good HP9000 info I found some hints and links on the NetBSD/hp300 page. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jbmcb at hotmail.com Tue Jul 1 07:34:00 2003 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:39 2005 Subject: Michael Williams on the Todd Mundt Show References: <002c01c33f79$3bc69a90$6401a8c0@DCOHOE> Message-ID: Computer historian Michael Williams was on the Todd Mundt show yesterday (from Michigan Public Radio) The archive should be up in a bit, needs RealAudio player. http://www.toddshow.org/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Cohoe" To: Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 10:11 PM Subject: RE: [oclug] computer gear garage sale > Hi Mike, > > Too Bad !!! > > I was actually in Ottawa for a while this weekend. I almost called you, but > the weekend was supposed to be involve sightseeing museums etc. with my wife > so I tried to stick to the agenda. > > Did you get the KIM-1? If its still available, it would be interesting. Also > the Osborne if it includes the software and manuals. > > I'm still getting things put away in the new building but will likely come > across the Xerox software you were looking for soon. > > regards, Dan > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > Behalf Of Mike > > Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2003 10:45 AM > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Fwd: [oclug] computer gear garage sale > > > > > > Someone local is cleaning out their garage. He's > > selling off a rather large collection of computer software and > > hardware. > > > > The sale started Saturday 28th, and is continuing through to late > > Tuesday for the long weekend. Contact and location details are > > available at each of the following URLs: > > > > http://www.bjgiles.ca/software_list.htm > > http://www.bjgiles.ca/hardware_list.htm > > > > I can act as a go between if needed. From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Tue Jul 1 08:32:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:39 2005 Subject: Modifying a B&W TV for composite video input Message-ID: Alltronics (http://www.alltronics.com/computer_miscellaneous.htm) has a video-composite adaptor for $5: TTL TO COMPOSITE VIDEO ADAPTER Requires +12V (or +5V) and video, vertical drive, horizontal drive signals. Produces RS-170 type composite video output. Fully assembled with 74125 sync regenerator, 3 terminal regulator, 2N2222 transistor. Only 2" square. 92C024 $4.95 each It looks like the adaptor I used to have for my Osborne 1. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Hans Franke [mailto:Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de] Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 2:50 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Modifying a B&W TV for composite video input > > I would think the easiest and cheapest way is to use a plain old RF > > modulator box that will put composite video on to channel 3 or 4. I've > > taken apart one or two and they seem to have little more than a few > > coils and small parts, a far cry from the rack mounted cable TV > > modulators I just picked up(ooohh... so many trimmer caps and > > coils...). I don't know a whole lot about it, but I'm slowly learning > > as my interest in fast scan ATV increases... The converter box I have > > goes with my TI-99, > Those little RF boxes don't really convert from composite to RF, they > just provide a switch and a connection to a TV antenna input. Communication error! While you where refering to the common (video game) switch boxes, John did mention modulators! they are usualy the same size (ok, the TI one is a true brick), but do what they are named, modulate the composite signal onto a TV carrier. The one I like most is the Amiga 520 (?). Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From jruschme at comcast.net Tue Jul 1 08:45:00 2003 From: jruschme at comcast.net (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: Info needed on Sun SCSI/Ethernet sbus card plus sun sparc2 FS In-Reply-To: <20030628151018.5319b5cd.kempfj2@rpi.edu> Message-ID: <22D68B63-AA85-11D7-854A-0005020DA670@comcast.net> On Saturday, June 28, 2003, at 03:10 PM, Jesse Kempf wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 28 Jun 2003 08:56:46 -0700 > jmd wrote: > >> i recently came across 2 X1054A SCSI/Ethenet Sbus cards. I am having >> trouble finding info about the Ethernet connector. This is not a >> standard port configuration. Its quite small (measuring 1/2 wide by >> 1/4 >> inch tall) and its *D* in shape. Female. > > It's an HDI something or other. Sun has a weird dongle that connects > to the port and takes AUI on the other end. You'll still need a > 10BT->AUI adaptor. Apparently, Sun had things set up so that the same > port carried ethernet and audio out. The dongles have a similar port > on them specifically for audio... > I think you're thinking of the weird AUI port in the Sun 4m's (particularly as implemented on the LX and SS10). OTOH, if the original poster is talking about the card, I think he is, they originally came with two adapters: one which had the mini-din, a short piece of CAT-5 and an AUI port; the other had a short piece of CAT-5 to an RJ-45 Male(!) port. (You could attach the latter to a 10BaseT network with an included RJ-45 F-F adapter.) Unfortinately, I lost my access to spares of those after they cleaned out the lab at work while I was on vacation. <<>> From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Jul 1 08:45:37 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: old hardware help requested In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030628222133.02e16918@pc> Message-ID: Looking at the Pro300 series pictures makes me think that most DEC hardware round that time had recessed rocker switches with (some) clear flat space round them, eg, VT220, DECmate, Rainbow, MicroVAX and MicroPDP. MicroVAX 2000: http://www.netbsd.org/images/machines/vax/vaxstation2000.jpg and http://www.digidome.nl/images/DecMicroVax2000_1.jpg MicroVAX II: http://openvms.compaq.co.jp/history/digital/comp/jpg/microvax2.jpg My own slightly battered Rainbow: http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Digital/rainbow-close.jpg DECmate II: http://openvms.compaq.co.jp/history/digital/comp/jpg/decmate2.jpg All very 1980s machines.... Reading the original message further, are we to assume that all the pix I've pointed out here are no good because there isn't totally flat space all round the rocker switch? Isn't that completely anal? I'm sure I'm the only person in the world to be sitting here, now, with a sticker from the Enterprise Computer factory, my little one's japanese decorative fan and an Adaptec SCSI interface from an IBM PC next to me, and I can prove it, but would I sue if someone claimed I wasn't the first? Oh - wasn't the MicroVAX 3100 released in 1989 or thereabouts? *very* recessed power switch with clear space all round..... -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of John Foust > Sent: 29 June 2003 04:23 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Fwd: old hardware help requested > > > I don't quite understand what copyright (as opposed to patent law) > has to do with his case, but I thought I'd forward this inquiry... > > - John > > >From: "Advanced Approach" > >To: > >Subject: old hardware help requested > >Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 10:51:42 +0800 > > > >Dear Mr. Foust: > > > >I am an American living (temporarily) in Hong Kong, I am in a > jam here, and > >you might be able to help. I would appreciate a couple of > minutes of your > >time ? just enough time to read this. You may be able to tell me what I > >need to know immediately. > > > >I am a defendant in a lawsuit here. In the lawsuit against us, the > >Plaintiffs claim that in the early 1990?s they were the first in > the world > >to recess a rocker switch. (Actually, they do not use those exact words; > >rather, they claim they own the copyright on a recessed rocker > switch. For > >them to own the copyright, they would have to be the first people in the > >world to put out a product with a recessed switch.) > > > >Of course, their claim is ridiculous, but in court, we have to > PROVE it is > >ridiculous -- otherwise, the court will probably accept their claim. To > >disprove their claim, we simply need to find a product with a recessed > >rocker switch that was on the market before 1990. (And of > course, we need > >to prove that it was on the market before 1990.) > > > >Friends have told me that recessed rocker switches were common on early > >computers, printers, and mainframe terminals. > > > >Copyright here is all about outlook. Here are two examples of recessed > >rockers switches with the outlook that we need: > > > >The first example: > >http://www.auctionshoppingbot.com/misc/Recessed_Rocker_Switch.html > > > >The above is from a Canon copy machine. > > > >This example shows well all five key elements that we need: > >1) The rocker switch is mounted on a flat surface, > >2) The rocker switch is recessed beneath the surface, > >3) There is flat surface all around the recess, > >4) There is nothing else in the recess with the switch, and > >5) The area of the recess is bigger than the area of the switch but not > >excessively so. > > > >This would be prefect, except the copy machine is only a couple of years > >old ? too new to prove that recessed rocker switches were on the market > >before 1990. (I have contacted Canon, but as a company, it > seems they are > >only interested in selling new machines.) > > > >The molded on/off symbols and the indicator light are not > important. We are > >looking for an example product with or without the molded on/off > symbols and > >the indicator light ? either is fine. For the switch rocker > itself, color > >does not matter ? even clear plastic with illumination inside is OK. > > > >The second example: > >http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=115 > >http://www.old-computers.com/museum/photos.asp?t=1&c=115&st=1 > > > >DEC 300 series computer from 1979. (On the second link, click > on the "close > >up".) This is good, and we might use this. It would be > perfect, except the > >Digital logo is right next to the switch (so this example does > not meet key > >element #3). So for our purpose, this is only half good. > > > >If you know of any product from 1990 or before that had a recessed rocker > >switch that meets all five key elements, please let me know. As you and > >others you know are knowledgeable about old hardware, any information you > >could provide would be greatly appreciated. > > > >I hope to hear from you. > > > >Thanks, > > > >Rick Graves > >Personal Rick_Graves@CompuServe.com > > > >Advanced Approach Ltd. > >1907 Westley Square, 48 Hoi Yuen Road > >Kwun Tong, Kowloon, Hong Kong > >Tel: +852 2372-0197 Fax: +852 2342-7197 > >e-mail: info@advanced-app.com.hk From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Jul 1 08:45:49 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? In-Reply-To: <003101c33d26$b5a8dc60$3c5986d1@earthlink.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Cord G. Coslor - Archive Software > Sent: 28 June 2003 04:38 > To: TRS-80@yahoogroups.com; 8bitcomp@yahoogroups.com; > classic-8-bits@yahoogroups.com; classic-computers@yahoogroups.com; > cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? > > > I have a unique TRS-80 model 3 that I am trying to find some > information on. > It has a catalog number of 26-1060, which I haven't been able to find any > references to on the internet. The majority of the Model 3s are > 26-1066 (48k > 2-disk systems). It also has a serial # of 0000365! This is a 32k system, > which no disk drives. > > Have any of you seen one of these before? Why aren't there any > references to > this catalog number out there? http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Tandy/trs80iii16k.htm I think mine is an even lower sn# than that, and it's labelled as a 'Tandy-Matra'. I can do more info if you need it, the machine's easily reachable. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Jul 1 08:45:56 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Vintage Computer Festival > Sent: 28 June 2003 20:38 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? > > > What is so interesting, special, or unique??? > > I guess the fact that it doesn't have drives. This is the only one I've > ever seen without them. *cough* http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Tandy/trs80iii16k.htm *cough* :) -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From pne.chomko at verizon.net Tue Jul 1 08:45:59 2003 From: pne.chomko at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: Well, I was at Fry's in CA... References: <1055270924.2220.16.camel@mail.worldvenue.org> <5.1.1.6.2.20030611212752.02727ec0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <3F012348.BFD78C71@verizon.net> ... yes, the one closer to Fremont on the opposite site of the bay of Silicon Valley. I came down the highway from Almeda on the east side of the bay just south of Oakland. I must say, I like Fry's, and those that were badmouthing the place were a little over the top in my opinion. Sure, the avreage salesman didn't know squat about computers and I could see where one could have a return mightmare. But, my experience was not bad and I actually enjoyed it. The prices were as good or better than Best Buy and the selection was better. Eric From sonnet at sols.ucl.ac.be Tue Jul 1 09:19:00 2003 From: sonnet at sols.ucl.ac.be (Philippe Sonnet) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: How Many SOROC's Was - Re: new finds :-) References: <200306280522.h5S5M8JN001453@swift.cs.unc.edu> <016501c33eb8$3cea79d0$f60add40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <004201c33fdb$3b51a520$90276882@solsmineral> > > Speakerine of whist, how man's Sors are stilton out terre? Vera thon as > > commune in te reste of te world as thon seemed in my corner of it? I > > hardly ever hear of them anymore, even on e-bay. > > > > Bill. I have two SOROC's here in Belgium. One is visible on : http://www.sonnet.be Philippe From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Tue Jul 1 09:58:01 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: Well, I was at Fry's in CA... In-Reply-To: <3F012348.BFD78C71@verizon.net> References: <1055270924.2220.16.camel@mail.worldvenue.org> <5.1.1.6.2.20030611212752.02727ec0@mail.zipcon.net> <3F012348.BFD78C71@verizon.net> Message-ID: <200307010754060723.706192C1@192.168.42.129> Good day, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 01-Jul-03 at 01:59 Eric Chomko wrote: >... yes, the one closer to Fremont on the opposite site of the bay of >Silicon >Valley. I came down >the highway from Almeda on the east side of the bay just south of Oakland. That would be 'Alameda.' ;-) >I must say, I like Fry's, and those that were badmouthing the place were a >little over the top in my opinion. I never said I didn't like them (though I do appreciate the jokes about them that keep circulating). However, before you decide that those who bad-mouth the place are "over the top," you should probably have a look at this link: http://www.doofus.org/frys/ I would also add that I have a set of ground rules for shopping at Fry's, ground rules that I rarely, if ever, break. (1) Know EXACTLY what you're going after, and even (approximately) what part of the store it's likely to be found in. (2) NEVER ask a sales 'droid for more than basic navigational directions (example: 'Where can I find the software aisle?') (3) NEVER take as Gospel anything a sales 'droid tells you about a given product. Know enough about what you're doing to know what you're buying, and what it can and cannot do. (4) ALWAYS check the seal on the package of what you're buying. Fry's has been known to repackage returns without even a basic checkout, and toss them right back on the shelf. (5) Know your market! Make sure that what you're buying is not available elsewhere, for a lower price. (6) If you're going after one of their 'open-box' specials, CHECK IT CAREFULLY to make sure it has all the accessories it should! Now, with all that said, I will say that I have gotten some good deals at Fry's in times past. My anti-static electronics vacuum cleaner (the one from 3M) came from them, at a reduced price because it was an 'open box' special. I never regretted that purchase. I'm also glad this thread came up. It serves as a reminder to me to go check on our new Fry's branch up in Renton. They're supposed to be opening in the next few days. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Jul 1 10:09:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: Well, I was at Fry's in CA... In-Reply-To: <200307010754060723.706192C1@192.168.42.129> from "Bruce Lane" at Jul 1, 03 07:54:06 am Message-ID: <200307011458.KAA11092@wordstock.com> And thusly Bruce Lane spake: > > On 01-Jul-03 at 01:59 Eric Chomko wrote: > > >... yes, the one closer to Fremont on the opposite site of the bay of > >Silicon > >Valley. I came down > >the highway from Almeda on the east side of the bay just south of Oakland. > > That would be 'Alameda.' ;-) Hmmm.... for some reason Star Trek IV comes to mind... ;) Cheers, Bryan From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jul 1 10:27:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: Michael Williams on the Todd Mundt Show In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jul 2003, Jason McBrien wrote: > Computer historian Michael Williams was on the Todd Mundt show yesterday > (from Michigan Public Radio) Mike is also the Head Curator for the Computer History Museum. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jul 1 10:28:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: Well, I was at Fry's in CA... In-Reply-To: <3F012348.BFD78C71@verizon.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jul 2003, Eric Chomko wrote: > I must say, I like Fry's, and those that were badmouthing the place were a > little over the top in my opinion. Of course. That's what you think when you go in for the first time. Try being a regular, then re-visit your opinion. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jul 1 10:30:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Jun 2003, Witchy wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > Behalf Of Vintage Computer Festival > > Sent: 28 June 2003 20:38 > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? > > > > > What is so interesting, special, or unique??? > > > > I guess the fact that it doesn't have drives. This is the only one I've > > ever seen without them. > > *cough* > > http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Tandy/trs80iii16k.htm > > *cough* I didn't doubt that there were more out there in the world, just that the one I have is the only one I've ever seen. Someone, somewhere probably has a garage full of them for no good reason. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Jul 1 10:36:01 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: Well, I was at Fry's in CA... In-Reply-To: <200307011458.KAA11092@wordstock.com> Message-ID: > And thusly Bruce Lane spake: > > > > On 01-Jul-03 at 01:59 Eric Chomko wrote: > > > > >... yes, the one closer to Fremont on the opposite site of the bay of > > >Silicon > > >Valley. I came down > > >the highway from Almeda on the east side of the bay just south of Oakland. > > > > That would be 'Alameda.' ;-) > > Hmmm.... for some reason Star Trek IV comes to mind... ;) > Is that where the nulcear wessels are? *runs away* g. From nedry at mail.bedlambells.com Tue Jul 1 10:48:01 2003 From: nedry at mail.bedlambells.com (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: Well, I was at Fry's in CA... In-Reply-To: References: <3F012348.BFD78C71@verizon.net> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030701164123.02285af0@mail.bedlambells.com> I hate Fry's. (or hated, I don't live within 8000 miles of one now)... Just wait till you have to get some faulty part replaced... At 08:19 01/07/2003 -0700, you wrote: >On Tue, 1 Jul 2003, Eric Chomko wrote: > > > I must say, I like Fry's, and those that were badmouthing the place were a > > little over the top in my opinion. > >Of course. That's what you think when you go in for the first time. Try >being a regular, then re-visit your opinion. > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * [---------] "Homer, we don't have to have sex." "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." "Deserts aren't always right Homer." "But they're so delicious." Website: retrobbs.org BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org [---------] From nedry at mail.bedlambells.com Tue Jul 1 10:57:01 2003 From: nedry at mail.bedlambells.com (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: RSTS/E Layered Products In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030701164832.02290f80@mail.bedlambells.com> Frustration, frustration... I have managed to get simh to work, I've managed to build a working system with RSTS/E 9.2, I've managed to get the DZ device to work and therefore telnet access working... ... I even made Super Star Trek run... ...but I can't find FORTRAN II or FORTRAN 77, and I think that is why I can't make any version of Dungeon run. I've scoured the Internet for ages. All I can find is folk complaining about how they can't find this stuff either. Please help, someone. I'd really like to get this to work. Can anyone help? thanks, Mark [---------] "Mi aparato de discos est? roto." Website: retrobbs.org BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org [---------] From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jul 1 10:57:12 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: Well, I was at Fry's in CA... In-Reply-To: <3F012348.BFD78C71@verizon.net> References: <1055270924.2220.16.camel@mail.worldvenue.org> <5.1.1.6.2.20030611212752.02727ec0@mail.zipcon.net> <3F012348.BFD78C71@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20030701084856.Q32495@newshell.lmi.net> On Tue, 1 Jul 2003, Eric Chomko wrote: > I must say, I like Fry's, and those that were badmouthing the place were a > little over the top in > my opinion. So,... One experience with no disasters invalidates all previous discussion. "I've been using Windoze for almost twenty minutes, and it hasn't ever 'blue-screened'" From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Jul 1 11:01:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: Well, I was at Fry's in CA... References: <3F012348.BFD78C71@verizon.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20030701164123.02285af0@mail.bedlambells.com> Message-ID: <009401c33fe9$650bae20$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Hey if your lazy like me you will find places on the net to mailorder anything and have it dropped off at your house for cheaper then what you can buy it new with tax at the store. I would die without www.google.com. On a side note does anybody else get the feeling that UPS, USPS, and FEDEX love EBAY because of all the $1.99 treasures you find there that cost $5-XXX or more for shipping to get it to your house? I have found many retro computer bargains on ebay where a large percentage of the total purchase price was in shipping. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Firestone" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 11:41 AM Subject: Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA... > I hate Fry's. (or hated, I don't live within 8000 miles of one now)... > Just wait till you have to get some faulty part replaced... > > At 08:19 01/07/2003 -0700, you wrote: > >On Tue, 1 Jul 2003, Eric Chomko wrote: > > > > > I must say, I like Fry's, and those that were badmouthing the place were a > > > little over the top in my opinion. > > > >Of course. That's what you think when you go in for the first time. Try > >being a regular, then re-visit your opinion. > > > >-- > > > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > [---------] > "Homer, we don't have to have sex." > "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." > "Deserts aren't always right Homer." > "But they're so delicious." > > Website: retrobbs.org > BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 > Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org > [---------] From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Tue Jul 1 11:28:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: Nortel Meridian 1 MAX Enterprise ACD Unit Chassis FREE for pickup in San Mateo Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030701120228.00a4b5a0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> FREE for pick up in San Mateo, CA Pretty serious VMEbus Telecom Chassis Nortel Meridian 1 MAX Enterprise ACD Unit Chassis ... Never Used We purchased this for the two boards, which have already arrived, and didn't need the chassis. http://www.analog-and-digital-solutions.com/temp-graphics/Nortel_Meridian_1_MAX_Chassis_1_.jpg http://www.analog-and-digital-solutions.com/temp-graphics/Nortel_Meridian_1_MAX_Chassis_2_.jpg http://www.analog-and-digital-solutions.com/temp-graphics/Nortel_Meridian_1_MAX_Chassis_3_.jpg located at ... 2041 Pioneer Ct. Suite 204 San Mateo, CA 94403 Here are some phone numbers to call to schedule pickup 650 548- 5202 - Steve Wood (First Choice) 650 548-5224 - Ann McKercher 650-548-5240 - Bill Welling hours of operation are 9:00am to 4:00pm PST M-F Enjoy. From big_boy_toddy at yahoo.com Tue Jul 1 11:35:01 2003 From: big_boy_toddy at yahoo.com (Todd Nathan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: Fry's Nightmares In-Reply-To: <20030701153001.83315.40709.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030701163116.97734.qmail@web40508.mail.yahoo.com> I have been shopping at fry's for almost 10 years when I used to live in the Bay Area only 2 miles from the Camino Real store, and also when visiting towns that have one near where I'm traveling. The purchasing experience at Fry's is really about a 8-9, if you don't need help. If however you do in a purchase or return, then the experience goes down to about a 2-3. It really is that simple. I go there, well educated on what I want, I don't have expectations of service (shameful that the world retail experience is pretty much like this, even Nordstroms is rather saddening these days) and I don't waste my time buying anything that has a reputation of bad quality. In other words, do your own research and extensive reading online before you go buy from Fry's. Oh, and if you get that far, you may as well check out www.pricewatch.com and other online street pricing systems, and buy online to save yourself the 30 minutes or more round trip drive and waiting in lines. From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jul 1 12:05:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: Well, I was at Fry's in CA... In-Reply-To: <009401c33fe9$650bae20$347ca418@neo.rr.com> References: <3F012348.BFD78C71@verizon.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20030701164123.02285af0@mail.bedlambells.com> <009401c33fe9$650bae20$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: >On a side note does anybody else get the feeling that UPS, USPS, and FEDEX >love EBAY because of all the $1.99 treasures you find there that cost $5-XXX >or more for shipping to get it to your house? > >I have found many retro computer bargains on ebay where a large percentage >of the total purchase price was in shipping. UPS the real .com success story. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From bqt at update.uu.se Tue Jul 1 12:51:00 2003 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: RSTS/E Layered Products In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030701164832.02290f80@mail.bedlambells.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jul 2003, Mark Firestone wrote: > Frustration, frustration... As usual. :-) > I have managed to get simh to work, I've managed to build a working system > with RSTS/E 9.2, > I've managed to get the DZ device to work and therefore telnet access > working... Nice start. > ... I even made Super Star Trek run... > > ...but I can't find FORTRAN II or FORTRAN 77, and I think that is why I > can't make any version of Dungeon run. I suspect you mean FORTRAN IV. FORTRAN II is another animal. I don't think it's available on RSTS/E, but I have it for OS/8, and it's probably not capable of compiling DUNGEON, no matter how you work with it. And yes, FORTRAN IV, as well as FORTRAN 77 are layered products. Sold by Mentec (well, FORTRAN 77 at least). So it's not possible to get them from anywhere on the net. Perhaps someone can provide you with binaries? I might be able to help with RSX binaries, which you might be able to run under RSTS/E, but this would mean some tricking around as well. > I've scoured the Internet for ages. All I can find is folk complaining > about how they can't find this stuff either. And that's the way it will likely be for quite a while, unless someone can either convince Mentec to give it away, create some hobbyist license, or if someone could buy it off from Mentec. > Please help, someone. I'd really like to get this to work. Can anyone help? Very much a maybe... Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Jul 1 12:54:00 2003 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: Well, I was at Fry's in CA... Message-ID: <123.23735183.2c3323bb@aol.com> In a message dated 7/1/2003 11:58:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, teoz@neo.rr.com writes: << Hey if your lazy like me you will find places on the net to mailorder anything and have it dropped off at your house for cheaper then what you can buy it new with tax at the store. I would die without www.google.com. On a side note does anybody else get the feeling that UPS, USPS, and FEDEX love EBAY because of all the $1.99 treasures you find there that cost $5-XXX or more for shipping to get it to your house? >> oh yes. I saw a nice PS/2 model 80 on ebay with the blue lightning upgrade and SCSI drives and pretty much maxed out. It was very cheap, but shipping would have been cost prohibitive. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Jul 1 13:07:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: Help identifying Mostek machine Message-ID: <200307011802.LAA12849@clulw009.amd.com> Hi It is always a fun project to write your own BIOS and get CPM running on these kinds of machines. I have brought up CPM on a couple of machines and find it isn't too hard. In some cases, I'll put a Forth interpreter on ROM for that machine. That way I can explore the I/O's for the machine and debug any assembly code before I expect it to work with things like booting a CPM disk. Dwight >From: Joe > > These sound like standard Mostek STD-BUS cards. The cards were available >separately so it may or may not be a Mostek computer. As luck would have it >(your's not mine!) I found some Mostek manuals for some of the cards today >along with some DRI CPM manuals. I haven't gone trough them yet but I'll >post a list after I do. BTW Steve Robertson is the expert on STD-BUS >stuff. He found one of the system developers that used to work for Pro-Log >and got a TRUCK load of that stuff. > > BTW II United Technologies bought out Mostek so Ian's computer could be >considered a Mostek machine. > > Joe > >At 07:52 AM 6/27/03 -0400, you wrote: >>That sounds like an interesting machine. I have a United Technologies >>Mostek Matrix 800, but it has a 1.2meg 5 1/2 drive and an MFM hard >>drive. My machine runs CP/M and has a Z-80. I have the system disks, >>albeit on 5 1/4, and I can make copies for you if you need them, but >>you'll have to find a way to either convert them to 8" or to hook a 5 >>1/4 drive to the computer, but even then I don't know if the disks >>would be compatible. >> >>Ian Primus >>ian_primus@yahoo.com >> >> >>On Thursday, June 26, 2003, at 10:58 PM, Erik S. Klein wrote: >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> >>> >>> I've come into possession of a Mostek computer (I'm pretty sure it's a >>> computer anyway) with a pair of 8" half height floppy drives (Shugart >>> 860s) and three cards. >>> >>> >>> >>> The cards are roughly 6x4 inches with a 56 finger edge connector on one >>> of the long ends and various connectors on the opposite end (I'm not >>> familiar with these). They are labeled MDX-FLP2 (plugged into the >>> drives - obviously a floppy controller), MDX-SIO (almost certainly a >>> serial IO card) and MDX-CPU3. The last card is the processor card. >>> The >>> main chip appears to be a MOSTEK Z-80 clone which is labeled MK3801N-4, >>> Z80-STI AND ENG. PROTO. There are 8 4564s for 64K RAM on the card >>> along >>> with what are either connectors for serial and/or parallel ports. >>> >>> >>> >>> The whole box is about the size of a typical rack-mount machine with a >>> plastic case around it. Most parts are tagged as Mostek and most date >>> codes are from the middle of 1982. >>> >>> >>> >>> Of course it came without software or documentation. >>> >>> >>> >>> Is anyone familiar with this machine? Does anyone have a boot disk, >>> other software or documentation for it? >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> >>> >>> Erik Klein >>> >>> www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum >>> >>> The Vintage Computer Forum From wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu Tue Jul 1 13:20:01 2003 From: wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu (Martin Scott Goldberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: APF Imagination Machine In-Reply-To: <3F013426.5000908@pacbell.net> from "Jim Battle" at Jul 01, 2003 12:11:34 AM Message-ID: <200307011816.h61IGD9o008534@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> >From: Jim Battle >Subject: Re: APF Imagination Machine > >kurtk7@visi.com wrote: >> Hello all, >> >> I have contributed to the lists on occasion, but now I have a special favor. I >> don't expect a response given the system, but you never know. Hope springs >> eternal. On a regular basis there are requests for this system or that. For >> reasons from simple curiousity to treasured memories of youth. Mine is the >> latter. The first computer I ever saw, way back when in my younger days, on >> the East coast, was the APF Imagination Machine ... > >At least you have the pleasure of having driven up the price for the guy >who won it. > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2737531463&category=4193&rd=1 > >They don't show up very often on ebay (not the computer part) and >certainly the one that just sold was the most complete such system I've >seen. Most certainly. I wish I would have had the money to bid on that my self. Usually when they are up there it's just the Imagination Machine component without the MP1000 or M1000 (MP is the seperately sold game console, M is the bundled version, as far as I know they are identical). > >In my own limited experience, you can probably get the system you want, >but the highest leverage way I've found takes these two things: > > 1) put up a web page dedicated to the machine. a good one. > one that shows you are serious about it and one that supplies > a lot of interesting information. one that other people will > find first when they do a web search. some day one of those > people searching will be an owner of such a machine and > they'll contact you. Speaking of which: http://dynamic5.gamespy.com/~gamingmuseum/apfentries/mp1000.php http://dynamic5.gamespy.com/~gamingmuseum/apfentries/imagination.php The galleries aren't finished yet, but you should get a general idea. The site isn't released publicly yet so please don't link to it publicly. It's part of my site re-design (www.classicgaming.com/gamingmuseum). > > 2) patience. lots of it. I'm sure right now that feeling of > needing to own one is overwhelming since you just got so > close, but you must also realize that you spent the previous > 20 years in bliss after having forgotten about the machine. > >It may take two or three years, but it does happen. The bees do >eventually find the flowers. > >You can also go out and beat the bushes, do frequent google searches >looking for other owners or people who mentioned owning one in an old >usenet posting, haunt every goodwill/salvation army, hit lots of yard >sales, etc, etc. The best approach is to do all of the above. Sly DC is a big collector of the Imagination, you might try visiting his homepage and contacting him: http://www.chez.com/slydc/ Marty From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Jul 1 13:21:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: DSM (digital standard MUMPS) Message-ID: <200307011816.LAA12857@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "John Willis" > >Is it still possible to find DSM? Looking to learn the MUMPS language, >preferably on one of my >VMS machines. > Hi Also check those at: comp.lang.mumps. So someone i that group may have something for it. Dwight From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jul 1 13:35:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: Well, I was at Fry's in CA... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jul 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >On a side note does anybody else get the feeling that UPS, USPS, and FEDEX > >love EBAY because of all the $1.99 treasures you find there that cost $5-XXX > >or more for shipping to get it to your house? > > > >I have found many retro computer bargains on ebay where a large percentage > >of the total purchase price was in shipping. > > UPS the real .com success story. You mean besides eBay itself? :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Jul 1 13:48:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: Reading PDP-8 paper tapes Message-ID: <200307011843.LAA12962@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Peter Turnbull" > >A long-time acquaintance of mine (Graham Toal, whom some of you may >know) has access to a collection of PDP-8 paper tape which wants >reading. Unfortunately some of it is in the care of the Royal Musuem >in Edinburgh, who won't let it out of their sight. > >Does anyone -- preferably in the UK -- have a paper tape reader that >could be hooked up to a modern machine (eg a laptop) to read the tapes >in the museum, and which they'd be willing to lend? > >To see what Graham and friends are doing, take a look at >http://history.dcs.ed.ac.uk/ It's worth a look even if you're not >interested in Edinburgh. > >I know Graham reads the list, so replies here or to me are fine. > >-- >Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > Hi I don't live close enough but it isn't too hard to connect, even a parallel paper tape reader. I have one that does folded paper tape that I connected to my lap top's parallel printer port. Dwight From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Tue Jul 1 14:25:01 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: Well, I was at Fry's in CA... Message-ID: I once bought a PC card modem in a $0.50 Dutch Auction, with $5.00 shipping, but the seller was up front about the modem costing $5.50 with s/h. -----Original Message----- From: TeoZ [mailto:teoz@neo.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 10:57 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA... I have found many retro computer bargains on ebay where a large percentage of the total purchase price was in shipping. From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Jul 1 14:25:51 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: Well, I was at Fry's in CA... In-Reply-To: <200307011458.KAA11092@wordstock.com> References: <200307010754060723.706192C1@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030701122153.027484f0@mail.zipcon.net> At 10:58 AM 7/1/03 -0400, you wrote: >Hmmm.... for some reason Star Trek IV comes to mind... ;) where are you nuclear wessels? From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Tue Jul 1 14:30:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: Fry's Nightmares In-Reply-To: <20030701163116.97734.qmail@web40508.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030701153001.83315.40709.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030701151240.00a9f8e0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Todd, That pricewatch.com is bullshit. Anytime you get a listing service like that it is so full of ploys to get listed in the top of the list, that it isn't worth messing with. You'll find the cheapest floppy drives have a high shipping cost, so that one that isn't the cheapest may actually be the better deal. When I was looking for a digital camera, I checked it. I called and talked to someone that had one of the lower prices listed on the camera, but then I had to buy all the required and necessary accessories separate. I just said "fork it" and went over to BJ's ( a wherehouse club store like Sam's or Price Club ) and found a camera in the box with everything required coming with it, and all I'm talking about here is just the memory card and the fabric strap handle, for less than the lowest pricewatch.com price after all the required extras. That pricewatch.com is something to check, but make sure you read between the lines. Best Regards At 09:31 AM 7/1/03 -0700, you wrote: >I have been shopping at fry's for almost 10 years >when I used to live in the Bay Area only 2 miles >from the Camino Real store, and also when visiting >towns that have one near where I'm traveling. The >purchasing experience at Fry's is really about a >8-9, if you don't need help. If however you do >in a purchase or return, then the experience goes >down to about a 2-3. It really is that simple. I >go there, well educated on what I want, I don't >have expectations of service (shameful that the world >retail experience is pretty much like this, even >Nordstroms is rather saddening these days) and I >don't waste my time buying anything that has a >reputation of bad quality. In other words, do your >own research and extensive reading online before you >go buy from Fry's. Oh, and if you get that far, you >may as well check out www.pricewatch.com and other >online street pricing systems, and buy online to save >yourself the 30 minutes or more round trip drive and >waiting in lines. From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jul 1 14:38:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: Modifying a B&W TV for composite video input In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030701122810.H36043@newshell.lmi.net> > > > I would think the easiest and cheapest way is to use a plain old RF > > > modulator box that will put composite video on to channel 3 or 4. I've On Tue, 1 Jul 2003, Feldman, Robert wrote: > Alltronics (http://www.alltronics.com/computer_miscellaneous.htm) has a video-composite adaptor for $5: > > TTL TO COMPOSITE VIDEO ADAPTER > Requires +12V (or +5V) and video, vertical drive, horizontal drive signals. Produces RS-170 type composite video output. Fully assembled with 74125 sync regenerator, 3 terminal regulator, 2N2222 transistor. Only 2" square. > 92C024 $4.95 each > > It looks like the adaptor I used to have for my Osborne 1. Although that might certainly be very handy for some things, just how do you expect conversion of TTL to composite to help with trying to get composite into a TV that currently only has RF input? From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Jul 1 14:46:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: Fry's Nightmares References: <20030701153001.83315.40709.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <5.1.1.6.2.20030701151240.00a9f8e0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <003301c33f8a$204d9d20$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Pricewatch lists the price of the unit along with shipping , so unless the place charges some unknown handling charger per order it is a good tool. I generally find agood reliable source and stick with it untill something better comes along. Check out feedback at www.bizrate.com for an idea about customer complaints. For new PC equipment I generally shop at www.newegg.com for older/obsolete stuff its ebay or www.compgeeks.com along with lowendmac swaplists and newsgroups. Some items you might actually find cheaper in the store (like hard drives and cdr media at places like bestbuy if you can stand the rebates) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mail List" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 3:22 PM Subject: Re: Fry's Nightmares > Hello Todd, > > That pricewatch.com is bullshit. Anytime you get a listing service like that > it is so full of ploys to get listed in the top of the list, that it isn't > worth messing > with. You'll find the cheapest floppy drives have a high shipping cost, so that > one that isn't the cheapest may actually be the better deal. When I was looking > for a digital camera, I checked it. I called and talked to someone that had > one of > the lower prices listed on the camera, but then I had to buy all the > required and > necessary accessories separate. I just said "fork it" and went over to BJ's ( a > wherehouse club store like Sam's or Price Club ) and found a camera in the > box with everything required coming with it, and all I'm talking about here > is just > the memory card and the fabric strap handle, for less than the lowest > pricewatch.com > price after all the required extras. That pricewatch.com is something to > check, but > make sure you read between the lines. > > Best Regards From luc at e2t.be Tue Jul 1 15:02:01 2003 From: luc at e2t.be (Luc Vande Velde) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: DSM (digital standard MUMPS) + 9 track tape units In-Reply-To: <315050836049D511BD020090276C4E720E3920@e2t_server_3.e2t.be> Message-ID: <315050836049D511BD020090276C4E720BD643@e2t_server_3.e2t.be> If you are looking for a tape drive I might have some... I am just back from my old stuff warehouse, looking for this DSM tape... At the moment I did not find him - I am sure I have it somewhere but the place starts to look like a junkyard... I have to get rid of some old stuff I have in multiples.... Concerning tape drives: I think I saw there: 1 Kennedy 9300 tape unit (could not move, too heavy) 2 Kennedy 9000 tape units (45 inch/sec units 800/1600 bpi) 3 or more Kennedy 9600 units - autoloaders - I am not sure about the density they write plus all the service and maintenance manuals of this units and some alignment tools 2 Pertec autoloaders (I did not saw the manuals) 2 Digital TU10 units (this are real 800bpi dino's) - I am not sure about the controllers for this guy's (what kind of controller need they?) for this 9600 units I seem to have a PC controller too (a least one of them is connected to an IBM pc) As far as I know all units were working the day we put them out of order (somewhere in the early 90ies) (the TU10's might need some maintenance, I am not sure about them) I intend to keep a few units for myself (unless someone makes me an offer I can't refuse...) What's taking up a lot of place are all my decwriters... I have: 3 Decwriter I (output only) 5 Decwriter II consoles 4 Decwriter III consoles They might need some maintenance - I 'll check them and repair them if someone is interested... something more recent?) I found a few very complete looking Q bus systems with 9-track controller (will be Emulex or Dilog I think) They are realtive new (a least for a PDP11) - it are mentec cabinets with mentec processor (11/73) 4MB on board, SCSI disc controllers and a lot of I/O I am sure they all have DSM on their drives. (I never used an other Digital OS) There is an utility in DSM that lets you make new distribution tapes, so if they start I can make as many tapes as I want (if I can find a few tapes somewhere...) gr. Luc -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens Sergio Pedraja Cabo Verzonden: maandag 30 juni 2003 11:10 Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org Onderwerp: RE: DSM (digital standard MUMPS) > > I don't know him, but many users of SIMH would agree to have one > > copy of DSM-11 available. Myself one of them, just by the way ;-) > > > > Other old PDP software is welcome too. > Likewise. I am fairly close to Luc, so I could go and get the tape, > read it into an image here, copy it so he has an extra copy, take them > back, and send out the image... Great, great, great, Fred :-) > That said... dang, I *still* need (access to) a working 9-track 800bpi > unit... anyone? In Holland, or within a day's drive from there? I can't help by now. I have one PERTEC and one SCSI tape unit pending to pick up. Thanks and Greetings Sergio From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 1 16:31:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: Modifying a B&W TV for composite video input In-Reply-To: from "Ian Primus" at Jun 30, 3 08:48:36 pm Message-ID: > I have read a lot about the SWTPC TV Typewriter, and I am interested in > how people modified a black and white TV for a video monitor. I have an > old black and white set that I thought would be fun to modify for use > as a video monitor. Now, granted, I don't really need another composite It's fun until you start working on a live-chassis set and you suddenly apply mains across your video interface circuit and yourself.... Seriously, many large-screen (non-portable) B&W TVs have a live chassis connected directly to one side of the mains (or worse to one side of a bridge rectifier connected to the mains, so the chassis sits at half mains voltage on average). Don't even think of adding a composite input to such a set unless you connect the mains input to the secondary of a double-wound isolating transformer. (OK, it is possible to isolate the video input rather than the mains -- Radio Shack did on the original Model 1 monitor, which has a hot chassis. But this is a lot harder to get working right, and a lot more dangerous to experiment with). Portable TVs that can also run off a 12V battery _normally_ have an isolated PSU, but please check to be sure... A circuit diagram of the set is _essential_. I am not sure where you are -- if you're in the States, get the Sams Photofact for the set if you can't get the original service manual. If you're in the UK, see if it was covered in 'Radio and Television Servicing'. Then all (!) you need to do is find the video detector stage and feed in your composite signal at the output of that stage. Hopefully the sync separater takes it's feed after that point (it's almost certain you can find a point where this is the case) so you really can feed in a composite signal and expect it to work. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 1 16:31:58 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: Acorn (Was Re: Reading PDP-8 paper tapes) In-Reply-To: <200307010142.h611grCc003968@gtoal.com> from "Graham Toal" at Jun 30, 3 08:42:53 pm Message-ID: > > I have a couple of Acorn Systems (one 6502, the other 6809-based). I am > > always looking for any of the more unusual I/O cards for them.... > > OK, refresh my memory here... what Acorn 6809 system would that be? Well, it's basically a System 4 (4 3U racks, top one contianing a pair of 5.25" floppies, bottom one cotnaining a row of Eurocards). The CPU board has a 6809 processor, monitor ROM, keyboard interface, etc. There's also 7 of the 8K SRAM cards, an 80 column VDU card, the 8271-based FDC, and IIRC one of the serial/parallel I/O cards I have no idea if it ever made commercial production. I do have a spare CPU card for it (obtained separately) which has the monitor ROM with routines for the 40 colum 'Teletext' VDU card. I also have the CPU board manual (giving schematics and source code for the 40 column version of the ROM) and it looks like a commercial product. > > I was only aware of two - one by Brian Jones which was a large hand- > made breadboarded circuit he did as an experiment, and which ran FLEX, Mine runs Flex.... > Other obscure Acorn kit that I have: the "Prophet" - a version of > the Atom targetted at businesses. Never seen a single mention of Interesting. Never heard of that one... > Some day I'll photograph my acorn goodies and let you know > what's available. Any cards I can put in a padded envelope Let me know what 'spare' cards you have, then :-).... > PS My main 'beeb' project before I transferred to VLSI CAD was > the Teletext adapter. I found the source code recently if anyone > wants it. I can't see Acorn giving me a hard time over > releasing it after all these years... I'd be interested in seeing it sometime. I don't have the teletext adapter (yet!), but I do have the schematics and loads of SAA50x0 series chips so I could always have a go at making one... -tony From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jul 1 16:48:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: New finds: enough Torch stuff to sink a battleship Message-ID: <20030701214349.61080.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> Rob, > Brackets on mine: yep, mine's the same. do you know the history of your machine? Just curious as we now know of two machines with the same case (apart from the lettering) and almost identical internals - just pondering whether both yours and my machine were prototypes and yours escaped the workshop somehow! (the guy I got my machines from says he knows for sure the Triple X system I have was a prototype, but not much is known about my other two systems apart from all three coming from the Torch workshop) > they do look a bit ropey... Check out the mounting for the UHF connector. On mine it's a mangled bit of aluminium with a cardboard insulator underneath... > > Mine appears to be complete - it has the modem (connects somewhere to the I take it your modem has the round old-style plug on it? I have two different sorts of spare modems (two of each) that came with this lot and even though I'm never going to use a modem I'd like to put the right type back in the machine. > ok, see earlier picture. it doesn't say atlas on it, so presume it's an > early one... Oh well. I've since found a Unix installation guide amongst the stuff I got which might be what you need. Depends what of the install floppies I have still have readable data on them I suppose! > It's got a Torch SASI board in it, so it says, with another interface board > underneath that I can't quite see, with the drives under that. likely the same Xebec board underneath that I have then. > You should be able to get to basic by holding "B" down on a hard boot (ctrl > + reset). My machine has the standard OS, a standard BBC Basic, a standard > DFS rom, and MCP 1.01 AT. thanks - I'll give that a try. > I've not powered it up yet .. I know it did work, but think last time I > tried (after moving house) it didn't boot. Will try again later, when got > a bit more time. mine makes that wonderful "jet engine warming up" noise and smells of warm dust when powered on :-) I found another doc today the suggests holding down caps-lock whilst powering on will do a manual boot so I'll try that tomorrow and see what happens. cheers Jules ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Tue Jul 1 16:53:00 2003 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: Acorn (Was Re: Reading PDP-8 paper tapes) Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DC69@lif015.vtmerlin.com> > PS My main 'beeb' project before I transferred to VLSI CAD was > the Teletext adapter. I found the source code recently if anyone > wants it. I can't see Acorn giving me a hard time over > releasing it after all these years... Please ... 8^)= Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jul 1 17:06:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: New finds: enough Torch stuff to sink a battleship Message-ID: <20030701220208.65147.qmail@web21108.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Tony, > No idea... What (if any) chips are missing from your Stickleback, other > than the Ethernet chipset? I haven't had time to open the case today, but a glance the other day didn't show anything big around the VME bus interface; it looked to all be 16 pin chips and the like. I got an email from the guy today saying the following: [ Not a theory - I know that one is the original prototype. The VME interface [ didn't work on that PCB issue. I've an idea that it's got a prototype EPROM [ in it that doesn't require a key disk. IIRC on that box of Eproms I gave you [ there is a "Simon" eprom - that's a debug boot EPROM that doesn't use the [ key disk system Interesting. I noticed that Simon ROM and wondered what it did :-) > I thought that at least one of the monitors actually started by combining > the syncs to make composite sync (and thus you could feed composite sync > in on one of the pins). I will have to dig out the schematics... that could well be true - what I thought was a sync splitter board in that 725 turned out to just be some buffer circuitry; the output was still composite. How someone managed to blow the fuses for the RGB and sync lines I don't know... > The monitor I am thinking of is almost entirely a Sony chassis, with a > little Torch PCB at the input carrying the 8 pin DIN socket and > connectors to the monitor video board (flat in the bottom) and the speaker. that's what the 10" ones are like inside. I pulled the case the other day to see what the connections were but didn't need to go any further than the small PCB carrying the connector so I don't know what's lurking deeper within (yet) > I think that 'NC' pin is for the interrupt input from the touch switch. there's some bodged circuitry (cut tracks, extra capacitor and a desoldered resistor etc.) in the corner of the board near the video circuitry. Maybe that's something to do with the power-mechanism bypass (or might well be something else entirely) > Watch out -- if the NICd goes open-circuit, then the clock > chip might end up getting 12V.... nice! :-) [SASI controller] > One question? Is there a ROM or EPROM on this board connected to the 1MHz > bus side of things? The reason I ask is that there's some feature of the > BBC micro where you can get it to execute code from a ROM in one of the > 1MHz bus address spaces after a reset, if you hold one of the interrupt > lines low or something. I wonder if that's where it gets the hard disk > drivers from... No, not on the SASI board. There's a Torch ROM on the Xebec controller, but the machine was locking up with the Xebec board disconnected and just the SASI board in place. Unless the presence of the SASI board is enough for the machine to think the Xebec board's there too whether it is or not. No idea what would happen then... > The Torch _SCSI_ interface just has a normal sideways EPROM (SCSIFS) in > one of the Beeb mainboard sockets, BTW... Hmm. I need to open up cases again. I remember the 725 box having a "Unix host" ROM, standard Basic / OS / DFS, and the ECO Econet ROM. Will go digging tomorrow... cheers Jules ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jul 1 17:10:01 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: Atari Transputer Workstation for sale Message-ID: <20030701220609.58600.qmail@web21110.mail.yahoo.com> > I know a source for a complete ATW800 in the UK area if anyone is > interested. They are asking 250 UKP for it (Cambridge area). Let me > know, condition is untested. I wish I could go for it, but since I am > across the pond, it is just too costly :-( Darn, I was just reading about these about a week ago and thought they seemed like nice machines and I'd probably never see one. Plus I live in Cambridge (well, about ten miles away) :-) Can't justify the cost though unfortunately! cheers Jules ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Jul 1 17:46:00 2003 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:40 2005 Subject: Modifying a B&W TV for composite video input In-Reply-To: References: from "Ian Primus" at Jun 30, 3 08:48:36 pm Message-ID: <20030701224146.NEKG3524.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Tony wrote: > It's fun until you start working on a live-chassis set and you suddenly > apply mains across your video interface circuit and yourself.... Yep. Nasty. Even with isolation still can get that ZAP!. > Seriously, many large-screen (non-portable) B&W TVs have a live chassis > connected directly to one side of the mains (or worse to one side of a > bridge rectifier connected to the mains, so the chassis sits at half > mains voltage on average). Every one you described for non-isolated sets are like this. Every one, I'm referring to cheap color sets old or new. The - side of rectifier bridge is "hot ground" in those. Very rare few I seen had one diode and that was in old citizen sets usually 13" to 19". This is really downright cheap. In those with non-isolated sets that does have inputs, always have small signal isolation transformers and or optical isolation. The others that is both hot/cold chassis be it via flyback transformer like this one hitachi and about 7 yr old. Other kind via SMPS is very common. Using mains isolation transformer is *extremely rare*. In so many sets in 1 and half years of sets (cranks out about 30 sets every 5 days) I worked on, only ONE did by design and that was really ancient Samsung 32" tv. So do your self a favor buy a newer used or new sets and hook up things without modifying that set or be hackish on old stuff, splice it on that internal mains wires a isolation transformer and bolt it inside that set. > Portable TVs that can also run off a 12V battery _normally_ have an > isolated PSU, but please check to be sure... 13" is considered portable also and almost always are hot chassis by design. In RCA 13" AC/DC tv it's hot chassis, to run on 12V RCA puts in an DC to DC converter! I'm talking about those that is made from 1991 onwards. ( chassis TX8xx series) But what nice about this 13" RCA has no B+ regulator and the pix is very stable because of direct control of horizontal pulses to regulate power in flyback itself. Hence very little horizontal size swelling or jaggies with bright parts. The later 13" RCA tvs gained mono audio and video input after it got the SMPS but basic design of pervious 13" RCA mostly unchanged. By contrast I have seen so many other sets that doesn't have good handle on the HV regulation the pix width swells with bright parts and shrinks with darks. This drives me nuts. Those have same chassis but has pincushion feature added (it is a module in RCA) had better handle on this but not 100%. If the vertical edges isn't straight (more of a flared or jaggies) that what I mean by this poor HV regulation. > A circuit diagram of the set is _essential_. I am not sure where you are From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 1 18:32:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: Modifying a B&W TV for composite video input In-Reply-To: <20030701224146.NEKG3524.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Jul 1, 3 06:43:16 pm Message-ID: > Tony wrote: > > > It's fun until you start working on a live-chassis set and you suddenly > > apply mains across your video interface circuit and yourself.... > > Yep. Nasty. Even with isolation still can get that ZAP!. True, but the mains is (IMHO) a lot more nasty than the EHT to the final anode... > > > Seriously, many large-screen (non-portable) B&W TVs have a live chassis > > connected directly to one side of the mains (or worse to one side of a > > bridge rectifier connected to the mains, so the chassis sits at half > > mains voltage on average). > > Every one you described for non-isolated sets are like this. Every > one, I'm referring to cheap color sets old or new. The - side of In the UK, just about all colour TVs (even small ones, 14", etc) have what's called a SCART socket. This is a 21 pin connector carrying 2 channels of audio in and out, composite video in and out, RGB in (which uses the composite input for sync), blanking, etc. It turned out to be simpler and cheaper to isolate the PSU rather than all those signals Still watch out if you're repairing the set. Some sets put things like the horizontal output stage on the mains side of the isolation barrier (which means the yoke has the horizontal windings 'hot' and the vertical windings isolated!). But at least the signal circuitry is isolated. Just about all small B&W TVs over here (for the last 20 years) have a 12V B+ line. They will run off a car battery or an internal (isolated) mains PSU. Again, modern sets (even small ones, I saw a 5" one the other day) have 'AV inputs' (audio and composite video). > rectifier bridge is "hot ground" in those. Very rare few I seen had > one diode and that was in old citizen sets usually 13" to 19". This > is really downright cheap. In those with non-isolated sets that > does have inputs, always have small signal isolation transformers and Other than an old, partly valved B&O colour TV, which had a transformer isolated audio output (and no other I/O), I have never seen isolating transformers for the signals on a UK TV. > or optical isolation. The others that is both hot/cold chassis be it > via flyback transformer like this one hitachi and about 7 yr old. > Other kind via SMPS is very common. Using mains isolation > transformer is *extremely rare*. In so many sets in 1 Most UK TVs have an isoleted SMPSU these days > from 1991 onwards. ( chassis TX8xx series) But what nice about this > 13" RCA has no B+ regulator and the pix is very stable because of > direct control of horizontal pulses to regulate power in flyback Are US TVs really so far behind European ones? We've had fully regulated supply lines, including EHT, for many years... Over here we'd not accept a TV where the picture changed in size with the average beam current! > > A circuit diagram of the set is _essential_. I am not sure where you are > > >From original makers is asolute best please. Especially from RCA Sure! > much better info and also have writings, and RCA also put out > training manuals for particular chassis. > > JVC doesn't do much on this just an schematic, troubleshooting charts > and raft of adjustment instructions in slim floppy books. Same thing > with Samsung, marginally better but their TV isn't my taste since it > tinkered too much with circuit that it is hard to troubleshoot. > Samsung liked to use philips ICs which is lousy and using AKB for The advantage of Philips ICs is that you can generally get full data sheets on them. And there's nothing wrong with them if correctly used! > only way u can probe around. Their philips schematics is locked and I can rememebr when Philips would send you a service manual free of charge if you asked nicely.... Oh well :-( -tony From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jul 1 18:35:01 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: Reading PDP-8 paper tapes In-Reply-To: "Dwight K. Elvey" "Re: Reading PDP-8 paper tapes" (Jul 1, 11:43) References: <200307011843.LAA12962@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <10307012354.ZM27078@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 1, 11:43, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >From: "Peter Turnbull" > > > >Does anyone -- preferably in the UK -- have a paper tape reader that > >could be hooked up to a modern machine (eg a laptop) to read the tapes > >in the museum, and which they'd be willing to lend? > I don't live close enough but it isn't too hard to > connect, even a parallel paper tape reader. I have > one that does folded paper tape that I connected to > my lap top's parallel printer port. > Dwight Indeed. Anything like that would be fine. Just please don't suggest a Teletype ASR33; I have one anyway. Besides, I'd not consider it very portable even though mine has casters. It's also slow, sprocket-fed, and being 20mA current loop and 110 baud, needs additional intefacing. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 1 18:38:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: New finds: enough Torch stuff to sink a battleship In-Reply-To: <20030701220208.65147.qmail@web21108.mail.yahoo.com> from "=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=" at Jul 1, 3 11:02:08 pm Message-ID: > Hi Tony, > > > No idea... What (if any) chips are missing from your Stickleback, other > > than the Ethernet chipset? > > I haven't had time to open the case today, but a glance the other day didn't > show anything big around the VME bus interface; it looked to all be 16 pin > chips and the like. I got an email from the guy today saying the following: The VME interface doesn't have any big chips. It's TTL buffers and a few small PALs... > > [ Not a theory - I know that one is the original prototype. The VME interface > [ didn't work on that PCB issue. I've an idea that it's got a prototype EPROM > [ in it that doesn't require a key disk. IIRC on that box of Eproms I gave you > [ there is a "Simon" eprom - that's a debug boot EPROM that doesn't use the > [ key disk system > > Interesting. I noticed that Simon ROM and wondered what it did :-) Hmmm.. i have Simon too, but I thought it still needed the key disk. It lets you boot from arbitrary files on the hard disk, though which is what makes it useful. But UniPlus+ still seems to need a key disk to boot... > > The monitor I am thinking of is almost entirely a Sony chassis, with a > > little Torch PCB at the input carrying the 8 pin DIN socket and > > connectors to the monitor video board (flat in the bottom) and the speaker. > > that's what the 10" ones are like inside. I pulled the case the other day to I am not sure if mine is the 10" or 13"... Looking from the back there's the video PCB flat in the bottom. On the left is the PSU PCB with the chopper control PCB plugged into it. On the right is the scan PCB with the raster correction PCB plugged into it. There are a couple of other PCBs for the controls, and the Hstat block screwed to the metalwork... > see what the connections were but didn't need to go any further than the small > PCB carrying the connector so I don't know what's lurking deeper within (yet) > > > I think that 'NC' pin is for the interrupt input from the touch switch. > > there's some bodged circuitry (cut tracks, extra capacitor and a desoldered > resistor etc.) in the corner of the board near the video circuitry. Maybe > that's something to do with the power-mechanism bypass (or might well be > something else entirely) Can't help you. The power control is handled via the service processor (6803 IIRC)... > > One question? Is there a ROM or EPROM on this board connected to the 1MHz > > bus side of things? The reason I ask is that there's some feature of the > > BBC micro where you can get it to execute code from a ROM in one of the > > 1MHz bus address spaces after a reset, if you hold one of the interrupt > > lines low or something. I wonder if that's where it gets the hard disk > > drivers from... > > No, not on the SASI board. There's a Torch ROM on the Xebec controller, but the It's not going to try to boot from that... -tony From rhahm at nycap.rr.com Tue Jul 1 18:46:01 2003 From: rhahm at nycap.rr.com (RHahm) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: HP85B Electronic disc Message-ID: Hello, How do I delete or purge all files in the ED ":D000" without turning the machine on and off. Is there a command to empty the edisc od all files? I am making backup copies of discs and storing the disc contents in ":D000" when I copy a new disc all the files from the previous disc are stil in the ED. Thanks, Bob From David.Kane at aph.gov.au Tue Jul 1 19:16:01 2003 From: David.Kane at aph.gov.au (Kane, David (DPRS)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: I thought the Univac was expensive Message-ID: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC262220F@email1.parl.net> I had to laugh at the seller's comment "...Must Sell. Low Reserve." http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3033449003&categor y=294 David From aek at spies.com Tue Jul 1 19:50:01 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: Western Periphs TC-151 docs? Message-ID: <200307020048.h620mlwq027554@spies.com> Does anyone have the hardware of logic manuals for the TC-151? It is a qbus controller for unformatted 9trk drives, and I'm trying to determine if it supports 18 or 22 bit addressing From semlj001 at hotmail.com Tue Jul 1 22:43:00 2003 From: semlj001 at hotmail.com (Lance S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64 Message-ID: I am looking for an 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64. Second hand is fine. If anyone could help me out it would be greatly appreciated. Lance. _________________________________________________________________ Hot chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=174&referral=Hotmail_taglines_plain&URL=http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilemania/default.asp From fernande at internet1.net Tue Jul 1 22:50:01 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: Well, I was at Fry's in CA... In-Reply-To: <123.23735183.2c3323bb@aol.com> References: <123.23735183.2c3323bb@aol.com> Message-ID: <3F025482.8060705@internet1.net> SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > oh yes. I saw a nice PS/2 model 80 on ebay with the blue lightning upgrade > and SCSI drives and pretty much maxed out. It was very cheap, but shipping > would have been cost prohibitive. Recently??? I think I paid about $40 in shipping my Model 80, with a Replyboard. That was about 3 years ago though. I also got the Image Adapter/A or whatever it's called..... the one with the 13w3 connector that was quite expensive, and got it all for less than the shipping costs :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Jul 1 23:44:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: Well, I was at Fry's in CA... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000d01c34053$ec209f50$0100a8c0@WaynePC> > On Tue, 1 Jul 2003, Eric Chomko wrote: > > > I must say, I like Fry's, and those that were badmouthing the place > > were a little over the top in my opinion. > > Of course. That's what you think when you go in for the > first time. Try being a regular, then re-visit your opinion. > Sellam loved George Bush the first time he saw him, then the introspection started. From hofmanwb at worldonline.nl Wed Jul 2 01:29:01 2003 From: hofmanwb at worldonline.nl (W.B.(Wim) Hofman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: Reading PDP-8 paper tapes References: <10306281126.ZM24218@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <000601c34063$142ded40$5793f0c3@computer4> Peter, I think I have a 20ma 1200 baud DEC PRS-01 papertapereader , I could miss for some time. It is located in Arnhem, The Netherlands, not so far from where Ed Groenenberg lives. With an RS232C-20ma convertor it could be connected to any PC. Wim ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Turnbull To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2003 12:26 PM Subject: Reading PDP-8 paper tapes > A long-time acquaintance of mine (Graham Toal, whom some of you may > know) has access to a collection of PDP-8 paper tape which wants > reading. Unfortunately some of it is in the care of the Royal Musuem > in Edinburgh, who won't let it out of their sight. > > Does anyone -- preferably in the UK -- have a paper tape reader that > could be hooked up to a modern machine (eg a laptop) to read the tapes > in the museum, and which they'd be willing to lend? > > To see what Graham and friends are doing, take a look at > http://history.dcs.ed.ac.uk/ It's worth a look even if you're not > interested in Edinburgh. > > I know Graham reads the list, so replies here or to me are fine. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jul 2 01:58:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: I thought the Univac was expensive In-Reply-To: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC262220F@email1.parl.net> References: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC262220F@email1.parl.net> Message-ID: >I had to laugh at the seller's comment "...Must Sell. Low Reserve." > >http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3033449003&categor >y=294 Agreed, but at least it would take up less space than that Univac :^) Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Jul 2 09:44:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: I thought the Univac was expensive In-Reply-To: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC262220F@email1.parl.net> Message-ID: <3F030C28.16581.4418A8FD@localhost> > I had to laugh at the seller's comment "...Must Sell. Low Reserve." > http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3033449003&category=294 Well, to me this looks more like the usual EBay problem with ',' and '.' Remember, in Europe, the floating point is a comma. So I assume that guy was just entering 10,00 Dollar, which got converted to 10,000.00 I had this already twice happening and instead of entering 4 Euro 50, (4,50) I suddenly had 4500 Euros as bid. This part of ebay is quite faulty. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Jul 2 10:25:00 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: I thought the Univac was expensive In-Reply-To: <3F030C28.16581.4418A8FD@localhost> References: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC262220F@email1.parl.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030702111529.027bed70@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Hans Franke may have mentioned these words: > > I had to laugh at the seller's comment "...Must Sell. Low Reserve." > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3033449003&category=294 > >Well, to me this looks more like the usual EBay problem with ',' and '.' > >Remember, in Europe, the floating point is a comma. So I assume that >guy was just entering 10,00 Dollar, which got converted to 10,000.00 >I had this already twice happening and instead of entering 4 Euro 50, >(4,50) I suddenly had 4500 Euros as bid. This part of ebay is quite >faulty. Prolly not in this case, Hans. Notice lower on the page, the guy wants $330 USD just for the *postal insurance* - who'd pay that for a $10 USD computer? Who's got an extra 10+ kilobucks to start bidding on it to find the reserve??? :-P ;-) Prost, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Wed Jul 2 10:40:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: I thought the Univac was expensive In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030702111529.027bed70@mail.30below.com> References: <3F030C28.16581.4418A8FD@localhost> <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC262220F@email1.parl.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030702112823.00a4b600@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> > Who's got an extra 10+ kilobucks to start bidding on it to find the reserve??? It doesn't have a reserve on it. At 11:18 AM 7/2/03 -0400, you wrote: >Rumor has it that Hans Franke may have mentioned these words: >> > I had to laugh at the seller's comment "...Must Sell. Low Reserve." >> >> > >> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3033449003&category=294 >> >>Well, to me this looks more like the usual EBay problem with ',' and '.' >> >>Remember, in Europe, the floating point is a comma. So I assume that >>guy was just entering 10,00 Dollar, which got converted to 10,000.00 >>I had this already twice happening and instead of entering 4 Euro 50, >>(4,50) I suddenly had 4500 Euros as bid. This part of ebay is quite >>faulty. > >Prolly not in this case, Hans. Notice lower on the page, the guy wants >$330 USD just for the *postal insurance* - who'd pay that for a $10 USD >computer? > >Who's got an extra 10+ kilobucks to start bidding on it to find the >reserve??? :-P ;-) > >Prost, >Roger "Merch" Merchberger > >-- >Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers >zmerch@30below.com > >What do you do when Life gives you lemons, >and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From ghldbrd at ccp.com Wed Jul 2 11:23:00 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Dean Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030702161456.14405.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> Lance S writes: > I am looking for an 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64. Second > hand is fine. If anyone could help me out it would be greatly appreciated. > > Lance. Why do you want that drive? It is designed for the PET series, and has the full blown IEEE-488 interface, which the C=64 lacks. So you'd need the adapter on the 64 as well, and I bet they are harder to find than WMD in Iraq.. I'd just get a couple of 1541's and daisy chain them together on the port, along with the printer or printer adapter. If you're wanting double sided disks, then go with a 128 and 1571 drives, and then you can play cp/m as well. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Wed Jul 2 11:26:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: Nortel Meridian 1 MAX Enterprise ACD Unit Chassis FREE for pickup in San Mateo Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030702121144.065e1190@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> I just got the word this morning that this is done. I was told that a salvage company that was picking up stuff there either is or has picked this up. To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Nortel Meridian 1 MAX Enterprise ACD Unit Chassis FREE for pickup in San Mateo FREE for pick up in San Mateo, CA Pretty serious VMEbus Telecom Chassis Nortel Meridian 1 MAX Enterprise ACD Unit Chassis ... Never Used We purchased this for the two boards, which have already arrived, and didn't need the chassis. http://www.analog-and-digital-solutions.com/temp-graphics/Nortel_Meridian_1_MAX_Chassis_1_.jpg http://www.analog-and-digital-solutions.com/temp-graphics/Nortel_Meridian_1_MAX_Chassis_2_.jpg http://www.analog-and-digital-solutions.com/temp-graphics/Nortel_Meridian_1_MAX_Chassis_3_.jpg located at ... 2041 Pioneer Ct. Suite 204 San Mateo, CA 94403 Here are some phone numbers to call to schedule pickup 650 548- 5202 - Steve Wood (First Choice) 650 548-5224 - Ann McKercher 650-548-5240 - Bill Welling hours of operation are 9:00am to 4:00pm PST M-F Enjoy. From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Jul 2 11:27:24 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: I thought the Univac was expensive In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030702112823.00a4b600@mail.analog-and-digital- solutions.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030702111529.027bed70@mail.30below.com> <3F030C28.16581.4418A8FD@localhost> <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC262220F@email1.parl.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030702121556.027b7ef0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Anonymous Coward may have mentioned these words: > > Who's got an extra 10+ kilobucks to start bidding on it to find the > reserve??? > > >It doesn't have a reserve on it. Ah, then the listing lied in another way: "... good condition. Must Sell, Low Reserve." as was also mentioned previously in the thread... Must be the only one in existance... :-/ (sure it is...) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 2 13:11:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64 In-Reply-To: <20030702161456.14405.qmail@xpres.ccp.com> Message-ID: <20030702180655.22415.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Gary Dean Hildebrand wrote: > Lance S writes: > > > I am looking for an 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64. > > Why do you want that drive? Maybe he has some 8250 disks to read? Perhaps some (custom?) software that needs a disk larger than a 1541 to work? > It is designed for the PET series, and has > the full blown IEEE-488 interface, which the C=64 lacks. He didn't say, but he could have one already. I have one for the C-64 and one for the VIC-20. > So you'd need the adapter on the 64 as well, and I bet they are harder to > find than WMD in Iraq.. It's possible to build your own with a VLSI I/O chip (6520/6522/6526) and a couple of buffers. That plus a ROM is what's on my VIC-20 IEEE adapter. IIRC, the drivers are a 75160/75161 pair, but there are a couple of options. AFAIK, there is firmware for _some_ IEEE adapter on funet. Not sure which one without looking. > I'd just get a couple of 1541's and daisy chain them together on the > port, along with the printer or printer adapter. If you're wanting > double sided disks, then go with a 128 and 1571 drives, and then you can > play cp/m as well. If he wants to move up to a 128, that would work. Personally, I _have_ a 128, and I'm more likely to fire up a C-64 that it, largely due to experience and personal comfort. -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 2 13:15:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: I thought the Univac was expensive In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030702111529.027bed70@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <20030702181137.63869.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Roger Merchberger wrote: > Who's got an extra 10+ kilobucks to start bidding on it to find the > reserve??? :-P ;-) Maybe in my other pants. :-( Seriously, though, has anyone ever heard of this machine before? (I haven't) Besides it coming from a different continent, is there anything remarkable about it? -ethan From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Wed Jul 2 13:30:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: I thought the Univac was expensive In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030702121556.027b7ef0@mail.30below.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030702112823.00a4b600@mail.analog-and-digital- solutions.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030702111529.027bed70@mail.30below.com> <3F030C28.16581.4418A8FD@localhost> <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC262220F@email1.parl.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030702131833.06510ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Here's something I stumbled upon the other day. With the new page layout's eBay seems to have already launched on international sites, but as of yet, not for us based auctions, and since I don't easily read all the languages used, I found some international auctions difficult to read. I could look up the words, since I have German, Italian, and French dictionaries within reaching distance here, but that would take up critical time. When I'm looking at an auction listing in the old layout that I have become familiar with, I know what some of the details are about just because of where they are on the page. Here's an example with that one that was in German http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2737483185&category=1247 ^^^^ when I edited the .de to .com as below http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2737483185&category=1247 ^^^^^ It showed up in English, and in the page layout I am familiar with. Definitely helped in understanding what I was looking at. Also, brings the time back to US Pacific Time Zone to help simplify not having to deal with converting time between even more time zones. Here's an Amstrad that is in Spain http://cgi.es.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2739499467 ^^^^ edited to http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2739499467 Again, helped in understanding. This also works in the reverse direction, to convert us based listings to the format, language, and time zone more easily understandable for others not in the US, though I realize that just about everyone that reads this list is very fluent in english, they may have some acquaintances that might not. This one below was understandable because it was in english, but still the familiar page layout could help keep from misinterpreting what I was looking at. Sometimes we just give these things a quick glance, and don't fully read all the details. http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3033449003&category=294 ^^^^ http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3033449003&category=294 Once the new page layout is being used on US based listings, and I become familiar with that, then won't need this change, except for the benefits of keeping things in the time zone I am familiar with working in. Best Regards At 12:17 PM 7/2/03 -0400, you wrote: >Rumor has it that Anonymous Coward may have mentioned these words: >> > Who's got an extra 10+ kilobucks to start bidding on it to find the >> reserve??? >> >> >>It doesn't have a reserve on it. > >Ah, then the listing lied in another way: "... good condition. Must Sell, >Low Reserve." as was also mentioned previously in the thread... > >Must be the only one in existance... :-/ (sure it is...) > >Laterz, >Roger "Merch" Merchberger > >-- >Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers >zmerch@30below.com > >What do you do when Life gives you lemons, >and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From Innfogra at aol.com Wed Jul 2 13:44:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008" was Re: I thought the Univac was expensive Message-ID: <7d.3a52ade6.2c348100@aol.com> It is an interesting batch of sales. If you look at their other listings there is an Intel iPSC, a MASPAR and what I think is an IBM 5100 listed with the a strange title "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008" listed in "antiques." http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=12&item=2542757186 I, too, am inclined that the seller has a problem with decimals. I think they are very unfamiliar with eBay, having just registered. The ads are in the wrong categories. The descriptions are not what would sell a piece of equipment. Also seller in Japan, listed on the Australian eBay site with shipping in misquoted US Dollars. I suspect a Newbie or possibly fraudulent (low probability but worth being very careful) Does anyone recognize the pictures as being from somewhere else on the WEB. Many Japanese are collectors so it could be an original collection. The high valuations lead me to think it might be a collector. If you search their completed sales they are all collectable baseball cards. http://cgi6.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems& userid=extremejordanfanno1&include=0&since=30&sort=2&rows=100 They brought good money too. The Ford Typewriter is also getting good bids at a price that indicate the decimal places are not misplaced. I suspect a Japanese collector that is a newbie to eBay, and needs to raise money. Paxton Astoria, OR Who wishes he had an iPSC...... From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jul 2 13:56:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: I thought the Univac was expensive In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030702131833.06510ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030702112823.00a4b600@mail.analog-and-digital- solutions.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030702111529.027bed70@mail.30below.com> <3F030C28.16581.4418A8FD@localhost> <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC262220F@email1.parl.net> <5.1.1.6.2.20030702131833.06510ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <20030702114727.J51457@newshell.lmi.net> On Wed, 2 Jul 2003, Mail List wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2737483185&category=1247 > ^^^^ > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2737483185&category=1247 > ^^^^^ > http://cgi.es.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2739499467 > ^^^^ > http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3033449003&category=294 > ^^^^ You are either using a proportional font, or you are using TABS, which are being translated into a different number of spaces by my machine than yours. From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Wed Jul 2 14:19:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008" was Re: I thought the Univac was expensive In-Reply-To: <7d.3a52ade6.2c348100@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030702150008.00a7a180@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Paxton, I don't know what it is like these days, but back in the 90's the US dollar wasn't worth much in exchange against the Yen. Some of the courses the company I was working for were being conducted on one of the US Naval Bases in Japan. Mine wasn't, so I never went, but some of the other instructors told me what it was like to try to go out on the local economy. Something like a hamburger being $35.00 and such. I don't think they were BS'ing me about that either. If you wanted to make it over there on the per diem amount allowed, you had to stay on base. That still doesn't fully explain the listing prices, but it might be a factor. Those items are showing in Tokyo, Japan. Best Regards At 02:40 PM 7/2/03 -0400, you wrote: >It is an interesting batch of sales. If you look at their other listings >there is an Intel iPSC, a MASPAR and what I think is an IBM 5100 listed >with the a >strange title "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008" listed in "antiques." > >http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=12&item=2542757186 > >I, too, am inclined that the seller has a problem with decimals. I think they >are very unfamiliar with eBay, having just registered. The ads are in the >wrong categories. The descriptions are not what would sell a piece of >equipment. >Also seller in Japan, listed on the Australian eBay site with shipping in >misquoted US Dollars. I suspect a Newbie or possibly fraudulent (low >probability >but worth being very careful) > >Does anyone recognize the pictures as being from somewhere else on the WEB. >Many Japanese are collectors so it could be an original collection. The high >valuations lead me to think it might be a collector. > >If you search their completed sales they are all collectable baseball cards. >http://cgi6.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems& >userid=extremejordanfanno1&include=0&since=30&sort=2&rows=100 > >They brought good money too. The Ford Typewriter is also getting good bids at >a price that indicate the decimal places are not misplaced. > >I suspect a Japanese collector that is a newbie to eBay, and needs to raise >money. > >Paxton >Astoria, OR > >Who wishes he had an iPSC...... From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 2 14:53:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: Japanese exchange rates/cost of eating out (was Re: "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008") In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030702150008.00a7a180@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <20030702194930.99374.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mail List wrote: > Hello Paxton, > > I don't know what it is like these days, but back in the 90's the US > dollar wasn't worth much in exchange against the Yen. ~115 Yen to the US Dollar. It was 105 when I was there in 1996. It's been better recently, it was worse formerly. I _think_ the US dollar hit a low of 87 Yen or so around the time you are thinking of. > some of the other instructors told me what it was like to try to > go out on the local economy. Something like a hamburger being > $35.00 and such. I don't think they were BS'ing me about that either. I personally saw a steak advertised in a window for 8000 Yen. I chose to eat down the street at a "yakitori" place (grilled meat on skewers) and had the most expensive meal of my trip - $22.00 USD for a plate full of food and one or two beers. Most of my meals were in the $6.00 to $8.00 range, but I can read Japanese menus and did not go to the places frequented by Americans. Yes, I'm certain that there were $35.00 hamburgers to be had. Local cuisine (Soba, Ramen, Sashimi, Sushi, etc.) is much cheaper there than beef. Save money in Tokyo - eat fish. Insisting on an American diet in Asia is an expensive way to go. -ethan From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Jul 2 14:54:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: I thought the Univac was expensive In-Reply-To: <20030702181137.63869.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030702111529.027bed70@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3F0354D9.30501.45349EF5@localhost> > > Who's got an extra 10+ kilobucks to start bidding on it to find the > > reserve??? :-P ;-) > Maybe in my other pants. :-( > Seriously, though, has anyone ever heard of this machine before? (I > haven't) Besides it coming from a different continent, is there anything > remarkable about it? It's the first in a series of some remarkable Home/Small Business Computers from Sweden. The 800 for example was a great baby, includeing hard drives and high res graphic. Rather rare in middle/southern Europe, but supposed to be common in the north. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jul 2 15:18:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: Japanese exchange rates/cost of eating out (was Re: "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008") In-Reply-To: <20030702194930.99374.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030702194930.99374.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030702130636.U51457@newshell.lmi.net> > ~115 Yen to the US Dollar. It was 105 when I was there in 1996. It's > been better recently, it was worse formerly. I _think_ the US dollar > hit a low of 87 Yen or so around the time you are thinking of. It was about 250 yen to the dollar 20 years ago, when I bought my Epson RC20 (Z80 based wrist computer) If you insist on avoiding the local cuisine, ANY place is too expensive. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Wed Jul 2 15:20:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: Japanese exchange rates/cost of eating out (was Re: "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008") In-Reply-To: <20030702194930.99374.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030702150008.00a7a180@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030702160401.00a5f330@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Ethan, > I personally saw a steak advertised in a window for 8000 Yen. > ~115 Yen to the US Dollar. I just did the division. Then that would have been a $69.56 steak. > but I can read Japanese menus That is a very good thing to be able to do. I have a very hard time with Japanese, Korean, and Chinese character sets. German, French, Spanish, and Italian are so much more comfortable for me. Best Regards At 12:49 PM 7/2/03 -0700, you wrote: >--- Mail List wrote: > > Hello Paxton, > > > > I don't know what it is like these days, but back in the 90's the US > > dollar wasn't worth much in exchange against the Yen. > >~115 Yen to the US Dollar. It was 105 when I was there in 1996. It's >been better recently, it was worse formerly. I _think_ the US dollar >hit a low of 87 Yen or so around the time you are thinking of. > > > some of the other instructors told me what it was like to try to > > go out on the local economy. Something like a hamburger being > > $35.00 and such. I don't think they were BS'ing me about that either. > >I personally saw a steak advertised in a window for 8000 Yen. I >chose to eat down the street at a "yakitori" place (grilled meat >on skewers) and had the most expensive meal of my trip - $22.00 USD >for a plate full of food and one or two beers. Most of my meals were >in the $6.00 to $8.00 range, but I can read Japanese menus and did not >go to the places frequented by Americans. > >Yes, I'm certain that there were $35.00 hamburgers to be had. Local >cuisine (Soba, Ramen, Sashimi, Sushi, etc.) is much cheaper there >than beef. Save money in Tokyo - eat fish. Insisting on an American >diet in Asia is an expensive way to go. > >-ethan From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Wed Jul 2 15:26:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: I thought the Univac was expensive In-Reply-To: <20030702114727.J51457@newshell.lmi.net> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030702131833.06510ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030702112823.00a4b600@mail.analog-and-digital- solutions.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030702111529.027bed70@mail.30below.com> <3F030C28.16581.4418A8FD@localhost> <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC262220F@email1.parl.net> <5.1.1.6.2.20030702131833.06510ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030702161304.057af3c0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Fred, > You are either using a proportional font, or Yes, it's proportional fonts. It's necessary on this machine for the requirements of it's main applications. Best Regards At 11:51 AM 7/2/03 -0700, you wrote: >On Wed, 2 Jul 2003, Mail List wrote: > > http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2737483185&category=1247 > > ^^^^ > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2737483185&category=1247 > > ^^^^^ > > http://cgi.es.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2739499467 > > ^^^^ > > > http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3033449003&category=294 > > ^^^^ > >You are either using a proportional font, or you are using TABS, which are >being translated into a different number of spaces by my machine than >yours. From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Jul 2 15:33:01 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: Japanese exchange rates/cost of eating out (was Re: "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008") References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030702150008.00a7a180@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030702160401.00a5f330@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <001001c340d8$71e73fc0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Its always best to go out with somebody who lives in the area. They know the good spots, and they are usually afordable. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mail List" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 4:09 PM Subject: Re: Japanese exchange rates/cost of eating out (was Re: "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008") > Hello Ethan, > > > I personally saw a steak advertised in a window for 8000 Yen. > > ~115 Yen to the US Dollar. > > I just did the division. Then that would have been a $69.56 steak. > > > but I can read Japanese menus > > That is a very good thing to be able to do. I have a very hard time > with Japanese, Korean, and Chinese character sets. German, > French, Spanish, and Italian are so much more comfortable for me. > > > Best Regards > > > > > At 12:49 PM 7/2/03 -0700, you wrote: > >--- Mail List wrote: > > > Hello Paxton, > > > > > > I don't know what it is like these days, but back in the 90's the US > > > dollar wasn't worth much in exchange against the Yen. > > > >~115 Yen to the US Dollar. It was 105 when I was there in 1996. It's > >been better recently, it was worse formerly. I _think_ the US dollar > >hit a low of 87 Yen or so around the time you are thinking of. > > > > > some of the other instructors told me what it was like to try to > > > go out on the local economy. Something like a hamburger being > > > $35.00 and such. I don't think they were BS'ing me about that either. > > > >I personally saw a steak advertised in a window for 8000 Yen. I > >chose to eat down the street at a "yakitori" place (grilled meat > >on skewers) and had the most expensive meal of my trip - $22.00 USD > >for a plate full of food and one or two beers. Most of my meals were > >in the $6.00 to $8.00 range, but I can read Japanese menus and did not > >go to the places frequented by Americans. > > > >Yes, I'm certain that there were $35.00 hamburgers to be had. Local > >cuisine (Soba, Ramen, Sashimi, Sushi, etc.) is much cheaper there > >than beef. Save money in Tokyo - eat fish. Insisting on an American > >diet in Asia is an expensive way to go. > > > >-ethan From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Jul 2 15:54:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: Well, I was at Fry's in CA... In-Reply-To: <000d01c34053$ec209f50$0100a8c0@WaynePC> References: Message-ID: <3F0362F9.12010.456BCA01@localhost> Well, just add todays 'real Life' strip to that: http://www.reallifecomics.com/index.php?do_command=show_strip&strip_id=971&auth=00000-00000-11111-00000-00000 :) -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 2 16:40:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: Japanese exchange rates/cost of eating out (was Re: "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008") In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030702160401.00a5f330@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <20030702213624.79932.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mail List wrote: > Hello Ethan, > > > I personally saw a steak advertised in a window for 8000 Yen. > > ~115 Yen to the US Dollar. > > I just did the division. Then that would have been a $69.56 steak. > I wrote: > >~115 Yen to the US Dollar. It was 105 when I was there in 1996... You missed the quote - it was 105 when I was there, not 115... it's about 115 right now. That was a $76 steak. -ethan From semlj001 at hotmail.com Wed Jul 2 18:34:00 2003 From: semlj001 at hotmail.com (Lance S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: Fwd: Re: 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64 Message-ID: The reason that I'm looking for it is that my father has been using his 8250 to run some software and his has broken. He's had a technichian look at it and some parts are needed. It would be easier to buy another. As I understand, 1541 drives read / write in a different format to the 8250 drives. The 8250 is able to write 1Mb to each disk which I don't think the 1541 can do. Lance. ----Original Message Follows---- From: Ethan Dicks Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:06:55 -0700 (PDT) --- Gary Dean Hildebrand wrote: > Lance S writes: > > > I am looking for an 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64. > > Why do you want that drive? Maybe he has some 8250 disks to read? Perhaps some (custom?) software that needs a disk larger than a 1541 to work? > It is designed for the PET series, and has > the full blown IEEE-488 interface, which the C=64 lacks. He didn't say, but he could have one already. I have one for the C-64 and one for the VIC-20. > So you'd need the adapter on the 64 as well, and I bet they are harder to > find than WMD in Iraq.. It's possible to build your own with a VLSI I/O chip (6520/6522/6526) and a couple of buffers. That plus a ROM is what's on my VIC-20 IEEE adapter. IIRC, the drivers are a 75160/75161 pair, but there are a couple of options. AFAIK, there is firmware for _some_ IEEE adapter on funet. Not sure which one without looking. > I'd just get a couple of 1541's and daisy chain them together on the > port, along with the printer or printer adapter. If you're wanting > double sided disks, then go with a 128 and 1571 drives, and then you can > play cp/m as well. If he wants to move up to a 128, that would work. Personally, I _have_ a 128, and I'm more likely to fire up a C-64 that it, largely due to experience and personal comfort. -ethan _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail is now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/signup.asp From Hubert2752 at aol.com Wed Jul 2 19:23:02 2003 From: Hubert2752 at aol.com (Hubert2752@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: craig Message-ID: <17f.1d844eb0.2c33440e@aol.com> Used to work there. They filed Chapter 11 in 1997 or 98. I was there at the end. If you have any questions let me know. Name was purchased by an electronics importer in Miami, FL. From r.mueller at fz-juelich.de Wed Jul 2 19:23:51 2003 From: r.mueller at fz-juelich.de (Robert Mueller) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: Composite video to TV Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030701222324.01bc2190@iffpcsrv.iff.kfa-juelich.de> I have tried this twice with some luck in both cases. In both cases the computer was an Atari 800XL. One monitor started as a Black and white TV able to operate from 12 volts or line power. It was easy because it generated 12 volts with a transformer when running from the line. The signal went into the contrast control, not the wiper terminal but the "hot" stationary terminal. If you have enough signal level this will work directly but you can try getting in before the video amplifier or simply put in a small amplifier between the new video input and the contrast control (trivial with today's fast opamps) You can steal the power from somewhere in the TV. The other case was more interesting because it involved one of those nasty TV s running without a proper line isolating transformer. Here I went to an optical coupler based on a fast HP model coupler for analog signals (I believe these reach 10 MHz with some effort.) I needed a tiny transformer to provide drive for the LED on the computer side of the optocoupler (the computer output is not enough). This was setup to use a slight bias current at zero input voltage from the computer and increasing light level (more drive to the LED) with increasing video level. The main trick in all this is some extra frequency compensation to delay the fall-off of the signal at the useful higher frequencies (you should preserve as much as possible at least to 6 MHz and even a bit more if possible). The receiving end of the optocoupler was configured to serve as an amplifier to get enough signal for the contrast control. The B&W version gave a quite good picture containing most of the sharpness you might expect from a proper monochrome monitor and I liked it much better than the green things I was using at the time with other computers. The color version with the optocoupler was fairly satisfactory and I was happy to use it when a color monitor was simply too expensive to justify. Text was adequately sharp at 40 characters per line. Don't forget, the color still had to go through a PAL decoder with loss of sharpness. Incidentally, PAL is inferior to NTSC for this kind of job because the fundamental idea of PAL is the mixing of two adjacent lines to correct for level dependent phase shifts in transmitted pictures. The idea is great for TV but poor for computer work. Narrow horizontal lines simply suffer from this mixing. Still, the overall result was "good enough". HOWEVER; PLEASE OBSERVE ALL WARNINGS IN EARLIER MESSAGES. These transformerless sets kill the foolish. If you live in 230 volt land, the risk is still worse. Bob From jrr at flippers.com Wed Jul 2 19:24:14 2003 From: jrr at flippers.com (John Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: Fluke 1802 pod... Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030701183840.02bd2140@flippers.com> Last August you mentioned in a posting that you were looking for the 1802 pod...are you still? I have a NOS one I believe in my inventory. John :-#)# www.flippers.com John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Wed Jul 2 19:24:27 2003 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: Soroc was: new finds Message-ID: <200307020652.h626qvI0007313@swift.cs.unc.edu> I don't remember them beeping with every keypress. Is it a C-530 with "key click" enabled? Bill. On 30 Jun 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Sat, 28 Jun 2003, Bill Yakowenko wrote: > > > Speaking of which, how many Sorocs are still out there? Were they as > > common in the rest of the world as they seemed in my corner of it? I > > hardly ever hear of them anymore, even on e-bay. > > It was the first dumb terminal I ever got (way back before I became a > "collector"). They are not terribly common, bordering on rare. It's a > nice terminal. I like the beep sound it makes whenever you press a > key. From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Wed Jul 2 19:24:40 2003 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: Soroc was: new finds Message-ID: <200307020706.h6276i04007426@swift.cs.unc.edu> Hey Joe, How sure are you about IQ-120's having 1802's? ISTR doing a class project on that, studied the schematics (wish I had those now!), and concluded that the design was very much like a microcoded CPU - some PAL or PGA controlling register transfers, with a state register acting as a kind of micro-program counter... Now I wonder if that was some other terminal. It was 20 years ago, and my memory aint what it used to be. I may be interested in that IQ-130; I'll e-mail you off-list. My IQ-135 is actually in pieces (courtesy of UPS ten years ago). But there's a happy ending: I've found somebody with an ailing IQ-135 that needs parts. I'm packing it up for shipping now. Bill. On 29 Jun 2003, Joe wrote: > Hi Bill, > > I THOUGHT it had an 1802 until I took it apart for cleaning/checking. > Then I found out that it had one of those "RARE" NEC Z-80s :-/ It turns > out that this is a model 130 and not a model 120. The 120s did use 1802s. > This one also has the 1602 USART. I searched E-bay and didn't find anything > related to Soroc. I searched the net and found quite a few hits for the > model 120 and only one hit for the 130 and that was a message that Erik K. > posted few weeks ago. I didn't see anything for a 135 but I did see a > mention of a model 140. > > > The one sitting next to me here (an IQ-135) definitely has a z80. > > Do you need a 130 to go with it? This one is interesting but I don't > have room for things like this. > > Joe From hansp at citem.org Wed Jul 2 19:24:53 2003 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: Looking for info on HP 9915A In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F0288C2.7070507@citem.org> We recently got our 9915A industrial control computer semi functional. The 9915A is a repackaged version of the HP-85. It passes the self-test on power on but declares an error on the extended self-test. Anyone have the error codes? We would also like information about the pinout of the keyboard connector and any other technical information about the box. -- hbp ACONIT From hansp at citem.org Wed Jul 2 19:25:06 2003 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: HP85B Electronic disc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F028E52.40505@citem.org> RHahm wrote: > Hello, > How do I delete or purge all files in the ED ":D000" without turning the > machine on and off. Is there a command to empty the edisc od all files? I'm not familiar with the details but on page 292 of the HP-85B owner's manual and programming guide: PURGE "file-specifier" [, 0] When ,0 is appended to the file specifier, the specified file and all files after it on the storage medium are purged. So purging the first file on ED with ,0 should delete all files. -- hbp ACONIT From cbajpai at comcast.net Wed Jul 2 19:26:00 2003 From: cbajpai at comcast.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000301c3408f$79aeb6a0$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Lance....Does this look like 8050 that hooks up to a Commodore PET? -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Lance S Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 11:39 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64 I am looking for an 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64. Second hand is fine. If anyone could help me out it would be greatly appreciated. Lance. _________________________________________________________________ Hot chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=174&re ferral=Hotmail_taglines_plain&URL=http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilemania/defa ult.asp From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 2 19:45:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: Looking for info on HP 9915A In-Reply-To: <3F0288C2.7070507@citem.org> from "Hans Pufal" at Jul 2, 3 09:24:50 am Message-ID: > pinout of the keyboard connector and any other technical information > about the box. The HP85 service manual is on the MoHPC CD-ROMs. There are differences between the 85 and the 9915A, but they're similar enough that this manual is a great help. All the major ICs from the 85 turn up in the 9915 (There's one extra custom chip, an I/O translator, that you can find details of in any of the HP85 interface manuals). The keyboard connector is a DB25. The pinout is : 1 : Shield 2 : R0 3 : R1 4 : R2 5 : R3 6 : R4 7 : Ground 8 : Ground 9 : R5 10 : R6 11 : R7 12 : R8 13 : R9 14 : C0 15 : C1 16 : C2 17 : C3 18 : C4 19 : C5 20 : C6 21 : C7 22 : Shift/ 23 : Ctrl/ 24 : Capslock/ 25 : Speaker The keyboard matrix is the same as the 85, and is connected between the row (Rn) and column (Cn) lines The shift, control, and capslock keys are connected between the appropriate pin and ground. I am told the speaker is an 8 ohm unit, connected between pin 25 and ground. The Control connector, a DA15, has the following pinout : 1 : LED0 2 : LED1 3 : LED2 4 : LED3 5 : LED4 6 : LED5 7 : LED6 8 : LED7 9 : Run/ 10 : Test 11 : Power OK 12 : Ground 13 : StartSw/ 14 : TestSw/ 15 : Shield It basically carries the signals used on the front panel PCB. LEDn are the 8 user-definable LEDs. Run and Test are the signals for the 2 LEDs with those labels on the panel (note that one seems to be inverted, the other isn't!). The 2 switch signals correspond to the run and test switches on the panel -- the external switches go between those signals and ground. The 4 function keys on the left of the front panel are just the user definable keys on the HP85, and appear in the keyboard matrix as you'd expect. The video connector is composite monochrome video at (US) TV scan rates. Just about any composite mono monitor will work. -tony From semlj001 at hotmail.com Wed Jul 2 19:54:00 2003 From: semlj001 at hotmail.com (Lance S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: Fwd: RE: 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64 Message-ID: Chandra, The 8250 does hook up to a Commodore PET but the stats seem quite different between the 8050 and 8250. I can't seem to find a pic on the net of an 8250 but the drives are side by side. (see http://www.classic-games.com/commodore64/drives.html) ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Chandra Bajpai" Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org To: Subject: RE: 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 07:45:45 -0400 Lance....Does this look like 8050 that hooks up to a Commodore PET? -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Lance S Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 11:39 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64 I am looking for an 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64. Second hand is fine. If anyone could help me out it would be greatly appreciated. Lance. _________________________________________________________________ Hot chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=174&re ferral=Hotmail_taglines_plain&URL=http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilemania/defa ult.asp _________________________________________________________________ Hot chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=174&referral=Hotmail_taglines_plain&URL=http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilemania/default.asp From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 2 20:21:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:41 2005 Subject: Fwd: RE: 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030703011730.23022.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Lance S wrote: > Chandra, > The 8250 does hook up to a Commodore PET but the stats seem quite > different between the 8050 and 8250. The 8050 is a dual single-sided drive with full-height floppy mechanisms (Tandon or Micropolis, IIRC); the 8250 is virtually the same, but with double-sided mechs. The 8250LP is a newer version of the 8250, somewhat different internally, and uses half-height drives. I have a little of everything for the PET (including hard drives), *except* the 8" drives and the 8250LP, so I can't describe many details. -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 2 20:25:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: Fwd: Re: 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030703012047.85726.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Lance S wrote: > The reason that I'm looking for it is that my father has been using his > 8250 to run some software and his has broken. He's had a technichian > look at it and some parts are needed. It would be easier to buy another. What parts? Drives? Power Supply? Main board? The main board is about the only thing that really is hard to replace. I don't know what specific disk drives shipped with the 8250LP, but if it's the drives themselves, it's probably possible to find an equivalent. > As I understand, 1541 drives read / write in a different format to the > 8250 drives. You do have the nub of it. Completely incompatible. > The 8250 is able to write 1Mb to each disk which I don't think > the 1541 can do. The 1541 has half the tracks and half the heads (and less than 25% total space per diskette) Good luck in your search. All of my PET hardware is older than that. I have never even seen one up close, but they are out there. -ethan From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jul 2 20:25:29 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: Looking for info on HP 9915A In-Reply-To: <3F0288C2.7070507@citem.org> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030702211936.42a7f41a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I have a keyboard for the 9915 and I disassembled it and made a schematic of the keyboard and then posted that several months ago. Check the archives. Joe At 09:24 AM 7/2/03 +0200, you wrote: >We recently got our 9915A industrial control computer semi functional. >The 9915A is a repackaged version of the HP-85. It passes the self-test >on power on but declares an error on the extended self-test. > >Anyone have the error codes? We would also like information about the >pinout of the keyboard connector and any other technical information >about the box. > > -- hbp > ACONIT From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jul 2 20:25:42 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: Soroc was: new finds In-Reply-To: <200307020706.h6276i04007426@swift.cs.unc.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030702212202.42a7b00c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Bill, I'm not positive about the 120 having a 1802 since I've never disassembled one but I've seen a number of websites that claimed that they did. Search for "Soroc Terminal" on Google and you'll get plenty of hits. Joe At 03:06 AM 7/2/03 -0400, you wrote: >Hey Joe, > >How sure are you about IQ-120's having 1802's? ISTR doing a class project on >that, studied the schematics (wish I had those now!), and concluded that >the design was very much like a microcoded CPU - some PAL or PGA controlling >register transfers, with a state register acting as a kind of micro-program >counter... Now I wonder if that was some other terminal. It was 20 years >ago, and my memory aint what it used to be. > >I may be interested in that IQ-130; I'll e-mail you off-list. My IQ-135 is >actually in pieces (courtesy of UPS ten years ago). But there's a happy ending: >I've found somebody with an ailing IQ-135 that needs parts. I'm packing it up >for shipping now. > > Bill. > > >On 29 Jun 2003, Joe wrote: >> Hi Bill, >> >> I THOUGHT it had an 1802 until I took it apart for cleaning/checking. >> Then I found out that it had one of those "RARE" NEC Z-80s :-/ It turns >> out that this is a model 130 and not a model 120. The 120s did use 1802s. >> This one also has the 1602 USART. I searched E-bay and didn't find anything >> related to Soroc. I searched the net and found quite a few hits for the >> model 120 and only one hit for the 130 and that was a message that Erik K. >> posted few weeks ago. I didn't see anything for a 135 but I did see a >> mention of a model 140. >> >> > The one sitting next to me here (an IQ-135) definitely has a z80. >> >> Do you need a 130 to go with it? This one is interesting but I don't >> have room for things like this. >> >> Joe From semlj001 at hotmail.com Wed Jul 2 21:35:00 2003 From: semlj001 at hotmail.com (Lance S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64 Message-ID: Ethan, I'll find out the part that the technician thought was suspect. If I haven't explained myself clearly enough, the 8250 LP is a double disk drive that connects to a commodore 64. Thanks, Lance. ----Original Message Follows---- From: Ethan Dicks Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 18:20:47 -0700 (PDT) --- Lance S wrote: > The reason that I'm looking for it is that my father has been using his > 8250 to run some software and his has broken. He's had a technichian > look at it and some parts are needed. It would be easier to buy another. What parts? Drives? Power Supply? Main board? The main board is about the only thing that really is hard to replace. I don't know what specific disk drives shipped with the 8250LP, but if it's the drives themselves, it's probably possible to find an equivalent. > As I understand, 1541 drives read / write in a different format to the > 8250 drives. You do have the nub of it. Completely incompatible. > The 8250 is able to write 1Mb to each disk which I don't think > the 1541 can do. The 1541 has half the tracks and half the heads (and less than 25% total space per diskette) Good luck in your search. All of my PET hardware is older than that. I have never even seen one up close, but they are out there. -ethan _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail is now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/signup.asp From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 2 22:08:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030703030341.99549.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Lance S wrote: > Ethan, I'll find out the part that the technician thought was suspect. > If I haven't explained myself clearly enough, the 8250 LP is a double > disk drive that connects to a commodore 64. > > Thanks, > Lance. Looks like this: http://www.zimmers.net/cbmpics/deieee3.html Right? We are all talking about the same thing, but the drive by itself hooks to a PET. Your father must have a cartridge for his C-64 that provides an IEEE-488 port. One possibility is if you can't find an 8250LP is to get a regular 8250 (using the same connection). Dunno if an SFD-1001 would work or not... the DOS is not the same, so if your father's application depends on certain features of the drive itself, it might or might not be a reasonable substitute. There was a discussion about 8250LP repair on the CBM-Hackers list last year. This article is interesting: http://www.softwolves.pp.se/misc/arkiv/cbm-hackers/6/6731.html It suggests that the "fragile" part is a 6530 - a part made by Commodore that was always customized for its particular application. I've seen them on the KIM-1, in many Commodore disk drives and a few other places. Apparently some drives (perhaps the DOS 3.0 ones) used a daughter card in the 6530 socket with a 6532 (which is generic) and an external ROM. Dunno what's wrong with your father's drive, but if you can get in front of it, turn it on and watch for flashing lights. In many cases, that can narrow down the problem to a few chips. If it doesn't flash at all (i.e., it acts totally dead), that helps, too. Likewise if you can power it on, "talk to it" (read the error channel), but not read or write drives. Depending on the fault, it might actually be easier to fix than replace. Most "technicians" these days only know how to swap out entire boards or entire boxes. If it _is_ a 6530, that's kind of a problem... It's theoretically possible to fabricate a replacement, but I'm not sure the CBM community knows enough about that particular model to describe a functional replacement. A 4040? Sure. Maybe even an old-fashioned 8250. Not positive about the 8250LP. Cheers, -ethan From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Wed Jul 2 22:57:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: Kaypro systems for sale Message-ID: <001201c34116$9cc136e0$947ba8c0@p933> I'm passing this along in case someone might be interested: Daniel (natalierowe@earthlink.net) has a Kaypro II (boxed) and a Kaypro 4, both in working condition and both for sale. Please contact him at the address above. Besides passing this offer along, I have nothing to do with it. Erik www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jul 2 23:52:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: Soroc was: new finds In-Reply-To: <200307020652.h626qvI0007313@swift.cs.unc.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Jul 2003, Bill Yakowenko wrote: > I don't remember them beeping with every keypress. Is it a C-530 > with "key click" enabled? Hmm, maybe I'm recalling a different terminal. It's packed away right now and will be for a while so I can't check. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From wmsmith at earthlink.net Thu Jul 3 00:04:01 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008" was Re: I thought the Univac was expensive In-Reply-To: <7d.3a52ade6.2c348100@aol.com> Message-ID: <001001c3411f$d7ea3d30$2e42cd18@WaynePC> >> It is an interesting batch of sales. If you look at their >> other listings >> there is an Intel iPSC, a MASPAR and what I think is an IBM >> 5100 listed with the a >> strange title "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008" listed in "antiques." >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=12&item=254275 7186 > > I, too, am inclined that the seller has a problem with decimals. I think they > are very unfamiliar with eBay, having just registered. The ads are in the > wrong categories. The descriptions are not what would sell a piece of equipment. > Also seller in Japan, listed on the Australian eBay site with shipping in > misquoted US Dollars. I suspect a Newbie or possibly fraudulent (low probability > but worth being very careful) > > Does anyone recognize the pictures as being from somewhere else on the WEB. > Many Japanese are collectors so it could be an original collection. The high > valuations lead me to think it might be a collector. This crook has posted a picture from the Smithsonian exhibit, swiped from a UC Davis site: http://wwwcsif.cs.ucdavis.edu/~csclub/museum/items/merk_8_ibm_5100.html From donm at cts.com Thu Jul 3 00:08:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: Japanese exchange rates/cost of eating out (was Re: "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008") In-Reply-To: <20030702130636.U51457@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Jul 2003, Fred Cisin wrote: > > ~115 Yen to the US Dollar. It was 105 when I was there in 1996. It's > > been better recently, it was worse formerly. I _think_ the US dollar > > hit a low of 87 Yen or so around the time you are thinking of. > > It was about 250 yen to the dollar 20 years ago, when I bought my Epson > RC20 (Z80 based wrist computer) And 360 yen to the dollar back in the late 60s. One of the nice things that Japanese restaurants did - and may still do - is display plastic models of their servings at the entrance to the place. Very useful for those of us who don't read Kanji. > If you insist on avoiding the local cuisine, ANY place is too expensive. Amen! - don > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jul 3 00:14:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008" was Re: I thought the Univac was expensive In-Reply-To: <001001c3411f$d7ea3d30$2e42cd18@WaynePC> References: <001001c3411f$d7ea3d30$2e42cd18@WaynePC> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Jul 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=12&item=2542757186 > > > Does anyone recognize the pictures as being from somewhere else on the > > WEB. > > This crook has posted a picture from the Smithsonian exhibit, swiped > from a UC Davis site: > > http://wwwcsif.cs.ucdavis.edu/~csclub/museum/items/merk_8_ibm_5100.html Well, not to mention the text seems to be mostly copied from the very same page... -Toth From Innfogra at aol.com Thu Jul 3 00:50:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: Fraud in the making was Re: "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008" Message-ID: <102.3145d534.2c351cff@aol.com> Thanks to Google Pictures I found the pics of the iPSC and the MASPAR here: DAN'S ANTIQUE COMPUTER COLLECTION It sure looks like they were stolen from here along with more text. I would say these sales could be fraudulent and one should be careful. Paxton Astoria, OR From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Jul 3 02:24:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: eBay's new page layout Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030703031828.00a602b0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Damn, eBay's new page layout just hit the US site this evening. There is nothing so constant as change. From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Thu Jul 3 04:24:00 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: I thought the Univac was expensive References: <3F030C28.16581.4418A8FD@localhost> Message-ID: <3F03F51A.4060001@Vishay.com> Hans Franke wrote: >>I had to laugh at the seller's comment "...Must Sell. Low Reserve." > > >>http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3033449003&category=294 > > > Well, to me this looks more like the usual EBay problem with ',' and '.' Seller's location is listed as "Tokyo", so we can safely assume he's familiar with the comma as the thousands separator. (Is there no Japanese section of eBay, BTW?) I seem to remember having heard about the machine, there were many different 8-bitters of this kind at this time. The Exidy Sorcerer, for example, might be about the same time frame, maybe slightly later. Commodore PET is probably better known and also belongs to the late 70s. If you struggle to collect each and every kind, you may need a Luxor ABC80 too, but certainly not for that price! -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From geoffr at zipcon.net Thu Jul 3 04:45:00 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: I thought the Univac was expensive In-Reply-To: <3F03F51A.4060001@Vishay.com> References: <3F030C28.16581.4418A8FD@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030703024105.03974ec0@mail.zipcon.net> seesm suspicious to me that someone from Japan is posting to the australian Ebay? ?!?!?!? At 11:19 AM 7/3/03 +0200, you wrote: >Hans Franke wrote: >>>I had to laugh at the seller's comment "...Must Sell. Low Reserve." >> >>>http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3033449003&category=294 >> >>Well, to me this looks more like the usual EBay problem with ',' and '.' > >Seller's location is listed as "Tokyo", so we can safely assume he's >familiar with the comma as the thousands separator. (Is there no Japanese >section of eBay, BTW?) > >I seem to remember having heard about the machine, there were many >different 8-bitters of this kind at this time. The Exidy Sorcerer, for >example, might be about the same time frame, maybe slightly later. >Commodore PET is probably better known and also belongs to the late 70s. >If you struggle to collect each and every kind, you may need a Luxor ABC80 >too, but certainly not for that price! > >-- >Andreas Freiherr >Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany >http://www.vishay.com From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Jul 3 06:19:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: I thought the Univac was expensive References: <3F030C28.16581.4418A8FD@localhost> <5.1.1.6.2.20030703024105.03974ec0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <000e01c34154$37af4ec0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Why? geographically japan and australia are pretty close. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Reed" To: Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 5:41 AM Subject: Re: I thought the Univac was expensive > seesm suspicious to me that someone from Japan is posting to the australian > Ebay? ?!?!?!? > > > At 11:19 AM 7/3/03 +0200, you wrote: > >Hans Franke wrote: > >>>I had to laugh at the seller's comment "...Must Sell. Low Reserve." > >> > >>>http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3033449003&category =294 > >> > >>Well, to me this looks more like the usual EBay problem with ',' and '.' > > > >Seller's location is listed as "Tokyo", so we can safely assume he's > >familiar with the comma as the thousands separator. (Is there no Japanese > >section of eBay, BTW?) > > > >I seem to remember having heard about the machine, there were many > >different 8-bitters of this kind at this time. The Exidy Sorcerer, for > >example, might be about the same time frame, maybe slightly later. > >Commodore PET is probably better known and also belongs to the late 70s. > >If you struggle to collect each and every kind, you may need a Luxor ABC80 > >too, but certainly not for that price! > > > >-- > >Andreas Freiherr > >Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany > >http://www.vishay.com From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Jul 3 08:10:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: otrona parts? Message-ID: I finally remembered to pull out my Attache 8:16 last night. There _is_ a serial number on the outside, under the right front corner, below the "Attache" name (mine is 7840). It's stamped on a small metal plate and glued in a shallow recess, so it could have been lost. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Joe [mailto:rigdonj@cfl.rr.com] Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2003 10:43 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: otrona parts? I've been playing with the Otrana Attache that I found last week. FWIW I took it apart and checked it this morning and I noticed something funny. The no serial number anywhere on the outside of it but inside EVERYTHING has the serial number on it. The INSIDE of the case, the monitor, both disk drives, the power supply, the sheet metal, etc are all numbered 4616 but there's no number anywhere on the outside. Joe From anheier at owt.com Thu Jul 3 08:24:00 2003 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm & Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: Attention calculator collectors In-Reply-To: <20030702170001.93255.57094.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: Like new in boxes: Hewlett-Packard HP-41C scientific calculator. Manuals, quick reference guide, pouch, NiCad battery pack, no charger. Calculator tested with alkaline battery pack (not included). One memory module ( model HP 82170A) with carrier included. Card Reader, model 82104A for above with manual, blank program cards and pouch carrier. All in great shape. Trade for vintage CPU processors or best offer. Please email for more information. Thanks Norm From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Jul 3 10:03:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: Logitech Logimouse R-5 Message-ID: I'm looking for a Logitech Logimouse R-5 and software. I need it to go with AutoCAD v1.4 (that's v1.4, not R14) on my Otrona Attache 8:16. Alternatively, can anyone suggest a compatible solution using another mouse. Bob From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Jul 3 11:30:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008" was Re: I thought the Univac was expensive Message-ID: <200307031626.JAA14887@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Not all that use other pictures are trying to be dishonest. I came across one case where I recognized the picture of the item I'd bid on. I immediately wrote the fellow and asked what was up. I said that he didn't have a picture but he couldn't see any difference between the one he had and the picture. He was right, when I got the board, it was in great shape. Still, I told him that if you use another's picture, you should make a statement, such as "Looks identical to this unit" or something. Dwight >From: "Wayne M. Smith" > >>> It is an interesting batch of sales. If you look at their >>> other listings >>> there is an Intel iPSC, a MASPAR and what I think is an IBM >>> 5100 listed with the a >>> strange title "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008" listed in "antiques." >>> >>> >http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=12&item=254275 >7186 >> >> I, too, am inclined that the seller has a problem with decimals. I >think they >> are very unfamiliar with eBay, having just registered. The ads are in >the >> wrong categories. The descriptions are not what would sell a piece of >equipment. >> Also seller in Japan, listed on the Australian eBay site with shipping >in >> misquoted US Dollars. I suspect a Newbie or possibly fraudulent (low >probability >> but worth being very careful) >> >> Does anyone recognize the pictures as being from somewhere else on the >WEB. >> Many Japanese are collectors so it could be an original collection. >The high >> valuations lead me to think it might be a collector. > >This crook has posted a picture from the Smithsonian exhibit, swiped >from a UC Davis site: > >http://wwwcsif.cs.ucdavis.edu/~csclub/museum/items/merk_8_ibm_5100.html From Innfogra at aol.com Thu Jul 3 11:54:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008" was Re: I thought the Univac was expensive Message-ID: <20.14cabad9.2c35b8b0@aol.com> In a message dated 7/3/03 9:28:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, dwightk.elvey@amd.com writes: > Not all that use other pictures are trying to be > dishonest. Try asking a question of the seller. I don't think you will get a response. One of the people bidding over $2000 on a typewriter withdrew his bid because he could not get in touch with the seller. I have used other pics to sell something identical but I always mention it. I don't think that a problem generally. But with this seller I think these sales bear close watching or just not participating in. The first few items this guy sold were high value baseball cards. Once feedback on those come through we shall see if he is still on eBay. Paxton Astoria, OR From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Jul 3 11:59:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008" was Re: I thought the Univac was expensive In-Reply-To: <200307031626.JAA14887@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030703124219.084d89c0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Dwight, > Not all that use other pictures are trying to be dishonest. That is sometimes so. But one time I had a fellow download my picture that I was using to sell a board on eBay, doctor out my imprinting, and try to use it to sell the same part at the same time on eBay. It apparently was a very good picture I had developed. Needless to say, I wasn't too pleased about that. If he had waited until I'd had sold the ones I had, and then done so, I wouldn't have minded quite so much. Needless to say, when I tried to contact him about it, he chose not to respond. eBay took care of it. Still, those auctions in question do look very scary. User is too new. Feedback is too low. Location of seller is where you would have a difficult to impossible time ever recovering your money if it were a fraud. And the dollar amounts are way too high to take that much risk on. One question to ask is for someone dealing in goods that are at those kind of price levels, why can't they go drop a couple of hundred on a digital camera of their own and take some of their own pictures of the items they have? There could be reasons for it, such as they were somehow almost down to their last dime, but still ??? Caveat Emptor Best Regards At 09:26 AM 7/3/03 -0700, you wrote: >Hi > Not all that use other pictures are trying to be >dishonest. I came across one case where I recognized >the picture of the item I'd bid on. I immediately >wrote the fellow and asked what was up. I said >that he didn't have a picture but he couldn't see any >difference between the one he had and the picture. >He was right, when I got the board, it was in >great shape. Still, I told him that if you use another's >picture, you should make a statement, such as "Looks >identical to this unit" or something. >Dwight > > > >From: "Wayne M. Smith" > > > >>> It is an interesting batch of sales. If you look at their > >>> other listings > >>> there is an Intel iPSC, a MASPAR and what I think is an IBM > >>> 5100 listed with the a > >>> strange title "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008" listed in "antiques." > >>> > >>> > >http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=12&item=254275 > >7186 > >> > >> I, too, am inclined that the seller has a problem with decimals. I > >think they > >> are very unfamiliar with eBay, having just registered. The ads are in > >the > >> wrong categories. The descriptions are not what would sell a piece of > >equipment. > >> Also seller in Japan, listed on the Australian eBay site with shipping > >in > >> misquoted US Dollars. I suspect a Newbie or possibly fraudulent (low > >probability > >> but worth being very careful) > >> > >> Does anyone recognize the pictures as being from somewhere else on the > >WEB. > >> Many Japanese are collectors so it could be an original collection. > >The high > >> valuations lead me to think it might be a collector. > > > >This crook has posted a picture from the Smithsonian exhibit, swiped > >from a UC Davis site: > > > >http://wwwcsif.cs.ucdavis.edu/~csclub/museum/items/merk_8_ibm_5100.html From cb at mythtech.net Thu Jul 3 12:05:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008" was Re: I thought the Univac was expensive Message-ID: >I have used other pics to sell something identical but I always mention >it. I >don't think that a problem generally. I agree that the simple fact of reusing pics isn't a huge issue. But he ALSO reused text... which also isn't a huge issue by itself (I bought a very nice Netopia router that simply used the info page from Netopia's web site, photo text and all). BUT... this guy slightly modified the text, in relation to the "value" of the unit. The original web site's text claimed the value at $12,000... he changed it to $17,000 on the ebay listing. So right there he is being less than honest. Also, which is the unit for sale? The Mark-8 or the 5100 precursor? The original web site seems to indicate they are two different units simply being displayed next to each other. But the ebay listing looks like it is trying to say the Mark-8 is for sale. All in all... I would have to think this is a bogus listing, or at the very least, a dishonest listing (ie: maybe there is a Mark-8 for sale, but it is probably beaten to peices and totally non functional) -chris From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Jul 3 12:07:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008" was Re: I thought the Univac was expensive In-Reply-To: <200307031626.JAA14887@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030703130113.08a1ac60@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Dwight and all, Apparently eBay must have felt the auctions might be fraudulent also. They just terminated every one of them. Best Regards At 09:26 AM 7/3/03 -0700, you wrote: >Hi > Not all that use other pictures are trying to be >dishonest. I came across one case where I recognized >the picture of the item I'd bid on. I immediately >wrote the fellow and asked what was up. I said >that he didn't have a picture but he couldn't see any >difference between the one he had and the picture. >He was right, when I got the board, it was in >great shape. Still, I told him that if you use another's >picture, you should make a statement, such as "Looks >identical to this unit" or something. >Dwight > > > >From: "Wayne M. Smith" > > > >>> It is an interesting batch of sales. If you look at their > >>> other listings > >>> there is an Intel iPSC, a MASPAR and what I think is an IBM > >>> 5100 listed with the a > >>> strange title "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008" listed in "antiques." > >>> > >>> > >http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=12&item=254275 > >7186 > >> > >> I, too, am inclined that the seller has a problem with decimals. I > >think they > >> are very unfamiliar with eBay, having just registered. The ads are in > >the > >> wrong categories. The descriptions are not what would sell a piece of > >equipment. > >> Also seller in Japan, listed on the Australian eBay site with shipping > >in > >> misquoted US Dollars. I suspect a Newbie or possibly fraudulent (low > >probability > >> but worth being very careful) > >> > >> Does anyone recognize the pictures as being from somewhere else on the > >WEB. > >> Many Japanese are collectors so it could be an original collection. > >The high > >> valuations lead me to think it might be a collector. > > > >This crook has posted a picture from the Smithsonian exhibit, swiped > >from a UC Davis site: > > > >http://wwwcsif.cs.ucdavis.edu/~csclub/museum/items/merk_8_ibm_5100.html From Innfogra at aol.com Thu Jul 3 12:11:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008" was Re: I thought the Univac was expensive Message-ID: In a message dated 7/3/03 10:04:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time, mail.list@analog-and-digital-solutions.com writes: > > Apparently eBay must have felt the auctions might be fraudulent > also. They just terminated every one of them. > I see that. I reported it to eBay as suspicious and worth watching last night. I see they though it was suspect too. Paxton Astoria, OR From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Jul 3 12:12:37 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008" was Re: I thought the Univac was expensive In-Reply-To: <200307031626.JAA14887@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030703130344.09608d00@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Dwight, One other thing ... > Still, I told him that if you use another's picture, you should make > a statement, such as "Looks identical to this unit" or something. If you use another's picture, it would be nice to get their permission to use also. Then even more than "looks identical" etc., it would be more proper to additionally add something like "picture courtesy of ..." Best Regards At 09:26 AM 7/3/03 -0700, you wrote: >Hi > Not all that use other pictures are trying to be >dishonest. I came across one case where I recognized >the picture of the item I'd bid on. I immediately >wrote the fellow and asked what was up. I said >that he didn't have a picture but he couldn't see any >difference between the one he had and the picture. >He was right, when I got the board, it was in >great shape. Still, I told him that if you use another's >picture, you should make a statement, such as "Looks >identical to this unit" or something. >Dwight > > > >From: "Wayne M. Smith" > > > >>> It is an interesting batch of sales. If you look at their > >>> other listings > >>> there is an Intel iPSC, a MASPAR and what I think is an IBM > >>> 5100 listed with the a > >>> strange title "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008" listed in "antiques." > >>> > >>> > >http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=12&item=254275 > >7186 > >> > >> I, too, am inclined that the seller has a problem with decimals. I > >think they > >> are very unfamiliar with eBay, having just registered. The ads are in > >the > >> wrong categories. The descriptions are not what would sell a piece of > >equipment. > >> Also seller in Japan, listed on the Australian eBay site with shipping > >in > >> misquoted US Dollars. I suspect a Newbie or possibly fraudulent (low > >probability > >> but worth being very careful) > >> > >> Does anyone recognize the pictures as being from somewhere else on the > >WEB. > >> Many Japanese are collectors so it could be an original collection. > >The high > >> valuations lead me to think it might be a collector. > > > >This crook has posted a picture from the Smithsonian exhibit, swiped > >from a UC Davis site: > > > >http://wwwcsif.cs.ucdavis.edu/~csclub/museum/items/merk_8_ibm_5100.html From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Jul 3 12:21:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008" was Re: I thought the Univac was expensive In-Reply-To: <20.14cabad9.2c35b8b0@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030703131546.00a5acf0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Paxton, > But with this seller I think these sales bear close watching or just not > participating in. Seems eBay just de-registered the seller. Best Regards At 12:49 PM 7/3/03 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 7/3/03 9:28:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >dwightk.elvey@amd.com writes: > > > > Not all that use other pictures are trying to be > > dishonest. > >Try asking a question of the seller. I don't think you will get a response. >One of the people bidding over $2000 on a typewriter withdrew his bid because >he could not get in touch with the seller. > >I have used other pics to sell something identical but I always mention it. I >don't think that a problem generally. > >But with this seller I think these sales bear close watching or just not >participating in. > >The first few items this guy sold were high value baseball cards. Once >feedback on those come through we shall see if he is still on eBay. > >Paxton >Astoria, OR From allain at panix.com Thu Jul 3 12:25:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: DEC RF74 pricing References: Message-ID: <004801c34187$520a4120$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Hi, Anybody reccomend any good DEC resellers? I have one here, am about to deal with him, but before doing so did a web search for prices. I have RF74's in hand. Some resellers advertise them for $500~$900. Assuming that those websites are a bit out of date and/or that they deal with low/slow volumes where they don't want more stock... etc. then a lower price might be expected. What I also have is an offer from someone to buy my drives for $125/each. Question: Anybody have a known&liked reseller that I can at least check with to see if they're interested? AFAIK the RF74 was the largest non-SCSI drive DEC ever made, @3.5G. John A. hoping my dealing is still ethical. From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Jul 3 12:27:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008" was Re: I thought the Univac was expensive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030703131853.00a359f0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Chris, > The Mark-8 or the 5100 precursor? You know when I read that, I noticed that it never actually said anything was for sale. Not in the title or description. It just said something like "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008 based machine with 256 bytes RAM. It was introduced in July 1974 ..." Best Regards At 01:00 PM 7/3/03 -0400, you wrote: > >I have used other pics to sell something identical but I always mention > >it. I > >don't think that a problem generally. > >I agree that the simple fact of reusing pics isn't a huge issue. But he >ALSO reused text... which also isn't a huge issue by itself (I bought a >very nice Netopia router that simply used the info page from Netopia's >web site, photo text and all). > >BUT... this guy slightly modified the text, in relation to the "value" of >the unit. The original web site's text claimed the value at $12,000... he >changed it to $17,000 on the ebay listing. So right there he is being >less than honest. > >Also, which is the unit for sale? The Mark-8 or the 5100 precursor? The >original web site seems to indicate they are two different units simply >being displayed next to each other. But the ebay listing looks like it is >trying to say the Mark-8 is for sale. > >All in all... I would have to think this is a bogus listing, or at the >very least, a dishonest listing (ie: maybe there is a Mark-8 for sale, >but it is probably beaten to peices and totally non functional) > >-chris > From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Jul 3 12:57:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008" was Re: I thought the Univac was expensive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030703135022.086ea1a0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Paxton, > I reported it to eBay as suspicious Very good. I think, at least for the both of us, that it is very very important that eBay be kept as safe a marketplace as possible. Best Regards At 01:07 PM 7/3/03 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 7/3/03 10:04:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >mail.list@analog-and-digital-solutions.com writes: > > > > > > Apparently eBay must have felt the auctions might be fraudulent > > also. They just terminated every one of them. > > > >I see that. I reported it to eBay as suspicious and worth watching last >night. I see they though it was suspect too. > >Paxton >Astoria, OR From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jul 3 15:47:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008" was Re: I thought the Univac was expensive In-Reply-To: <001001c3411f$d7ea3d30$2e42cd18@WaynePC> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Jul 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > This crook has posted a picture from the Smithsonian exhibit, swiped > from a UC Davis site: > > http://wwwcsif.cs.ucdavis.edu/~csclub/museum/items/merk_8_ibm_5100.html I noticed that but I thought he was just using that as an example picture or something. But now that I think of it, that is pretty unsavory. What is this bonehead up to? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jul 3 15:51:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008" was Re: I thought the Univac was expensive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Jul 2003, chris wrote: > All in all... I would have to think this is a bogus listing, or at the > very least, a dishonest listing (ie: maybe there is a Mark-8 for sale, > but it is probably beaten to peices and totally non functional) Or, my conclusion is that the guy is a complete idiot. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 3 17:12:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 8250 LP Double disk drive for the In-Reply-To: <20030703030341.99549.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 2, 3 08:03:41 pm Message-ID: > It suggests that the "fragile" part is a 6530 - a part made by > Commodore that was always customized for its particular application. > I've seen them on the KIM-1, in many Commodore disk drives and a > few other places. Apparently some drives (perhaps the DOS 3.0 ones) > used a daughter card in the 6530 socket with a 6532 (which is generic) > and an external ROM. Mine has that, but I thought the chips on the daughtercard were a 6530 (from which the ROM section is not used, so any 6530 should work), and a ROM. Oh, and maybe a bit of glue logic. > > Dunno what's wrong with your father's drive, but if you can get in > front of it, turn it on and watch for flashing lights. In many cases, If the lights keep on flashing when you power up, count the number of flashes between pauses. Then post that number. I think it's the same for the 8050, for which I have the official service manual... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 3 17:12:54 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: Fwd: Re: 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64 In-Reply-To: <20030703012047.85726.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 2, 3 06:20:47 pm Message-ID: > --- Lance S wrote: > > The reason that I'm looking for it is that my father has been using his > > 8250 to run some software and his has broken. He's had a technichian > > look at it and some parts are needed. It would be easier to buy another. > > What parts? Drives? Power Supply? Main board? The main board is > about the only thing that really is hard to replace. Err, the main board is not something you replace. It's something you _repair_. Most of the chips on it are not hard to find... Incidentally, if said technician doesn't realise this, it's time he started looking for another job! > > I don't know what specific disk drives shipped with the 8250LP, but if > it's the drives themselves, it's probably possible to find an equivalent. Be careful, the drives are a bit strange. For one thing, I think they might be the 100tpi (not 96tpi) units. For another they have no electronics with them -- there's a little PCB between the drives that carries the read/write electronics, stepper driver, etc. A normal drive will _not_ plug straight in. > Good luck in your search. All of my PET hardware is older than that. > I have never even seen one up close, but they are out there. I have one. I also have schematics... -tony From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Jul 3 17:34:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: Soroc was: new finds References: <3.0.6.16.20030702212202.42a7b00c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3F04AE7D.3020103@tiac.net> I've got an IQ120, its all random logic, no microcontroller at all. Joe wrote: >Bill, > > I'm not positive about the 120 having a 1802 since I've never >disassembled one but I've seen a number of websites that claimed that they >did. Search for "Soroc Terminal" on Google and you'll get plenty of hits. > > Joe > >At 03:06 AM 7/2/03 -0400, you wrote: > >>Hey Joe, >> >>How sure are you about IQ-120's having 1802's? ISTR doing a class project on >>that, studied the schematics (wish I had those now!), and concluded that >>the design was very much like a microcoded CPU - some PAL or PGA controlling >>register transfers, with a state register acting as a kind of micro-program >>counter... Now I wonder if that was some other terminal. It was 20 years >>ago, and my memory aint what it used to be. >> >>I may be interested in that IQ-130; I'll e-mail you off-list. My IQ-135 is >>actually in pieces (courtesy of UPS ten years ago). But there's a happy >> >ending: > >>I've found somebody with an ailing IQ-135 that needs parts. I'm packing >> >it up > >>for shipping now. >> >> Bill. >> >> >>On 29 Jun 2003, Joe wrote: >> >>>Hi Bill, >>> >>> I THOUGHT it had an 1802 until I took it apart for cleaning/checking. >>>Then I found out that it had one of those "RARE" NEC Z-80s :-/ It turns >>>out that this is a model 130 and not a model 120. The 120s did use 1802s. >>>This one also has the 1602 USART. I searched E-bay and didn't find anything >>>related to Soroc. I searched the net and found quite a few hits for the >>>model 120 and only one hit for the 130 and that was a message that Erik K. >>>posted few weeks ago. I didn't see anything for a 135 but I did see a >>>mention of a model 140. >>> >>>>The one sitting next to me here (an IQ-135) definitely has a z80. >>>> >>> Do you need a 130 to go with it? This one is interesting but I don't >>>have room for things like this. >>> >>> Joe From semlj001 at hotmail.com Thu Jul 3 18:26:00 2003 From: semlj001 at hotmail.com (Lance S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64 Message-ID: The drive on http://www.zimmers.net/cbmpics/deieee3.html is what I'm looking for. I've had a chat to my dad who's said that the technician said it could be one of 2 things. 1. The head moves & is attached to a wire. A connection in the wire could be faulty. He said that fixing the wire was niot an option for some reason or other but I guess we could replace the head. Can I replace the head with one from a different model? If so, which are compatible? 2. There are 3 main chips on the mainboard which seemed to be running hot. The guy replaced 2 but didn't have one to replace the 3rd. I have been chatting with another guy who has said that the 8250 drive is functionally the same as the 8250 LP so if anyone reading this has either for sale please let me know. Lance. ----Original Message Follows---- From: Ethan Dicks Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:03:41 -0700 (PDT) --- Lance S wrote: > Ethan, I'll find out the part that the technician thought was suspect. > If I haven't explained myself clearly enough, the 8250 LP is a double > disk drive that connects to a commodore 64. > > Thanks, > Lance. Looks like this: http://www.zimmers.net/cbmpics/deieee3.html Right? We are all talking about the same thing, but the drive by itself hooks to a PET. Your father must have a cartridge for his C-64 that provides an IEEE-488 port. One possibility is if you can't find an 8250LP is to get a regular 8250 (using the same connection). Dunno if an SFD-1001 would work or not... the DOS is not the same, so if your father's application depends on certain features of the drive itself, it might or might not be a reasonable substitute. There was a discussion about 8250LP repair on the CBM-Hackers list last year. This article is interesting: http://www.softwolves.pp.se/misc/arkiv/cbm-hackers/6/6731.html It suggests that the "fragile" part is a 6530 - a part made by Commodore that was always customized for its particular application. I've seen them on the KIM-1, in many Commodore disk drives and a few other places. Apparently some drives (perhaps the DOS 3.0 ones) used a daughter card in the 6530 socket with a 6532 (which is generic) and an external ROM. Dunno what's wrong with your father's drive, but if you can get in front of it, turn it on and watch for flashing lights. In many cases, that can narrow down the problem to a few chips. If it doesn't flash at all (i.e., it acts totally dead), that helps, too. Likewise if you can power it on, "talk to it" (read the error channel), but not read or write drives. Depending on the fault, it might actually be easier to fix than replace. Most "technicians" these days only know how to swap out entire boards or entire boxes. If it _is_ a 6530, that's kind of a problem... It's theoretically possible to fabricate a replacement, but I'm not sure the CBM community knows enough about that particular model to describe a functional replacement. A 4040? Sure. Maybe even an old-fashioned 8250. Not positive about the 8250LP. Cheers, -ethan _________________________________________________________________ Hot chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=174&referral=Hotmail_taglines_plain&URL=http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilemania/default.asp From aek at spies.com Thu Jul 3 18:41:01 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: 5.25" SMD drives Message-ID: <200307032339.h63Ndkvn030289@spies.com> The manual for Segate/CDC's 41097J (97500-11G) and 41201J (97500-12G) is now up at www.spies.com/aek/pdf/seagate/83327290-A_ST41097J_SMD.pdf Thanks to Dave Jenner for the original. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 3 19:30:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64 In-Reply-To: from "Lance S" at Jul 3, 3 11:22:29 pm Message-ID: > The drive on http://www.zimmers.net/cbmpics/deieee3.html is what I'm looking > for. > I've had a chat to my dad who's said that the technician said it could be > one of 2 things. > > 1. The head moves & is attached to a wire. A connection in the wire could be > faulty. > He said that fixing the wire was niot an option for some reason or other but > I guess we could replace the head. Can I replace the head with one from a > different model? If so, which are compatible? Err... This worries me. How can he not know if the head connections are open-circuit (they are not hard to test!). Why can't the cable be replaced (I've resoldered connections inside drive head assemblies many times). It's a lot easier to replace the cable (if that's the problem) than to replace the head, since if you do the latter you'll need the right alignment disk to set it up. > > 2. There are 3 main chips on the mainboard which seemed to be running hot. > The guy replaced 2 but didn't have one to replace the 3rd. They do. In fact my 8250LP has factory-fitted heatsinks on some of the ICs... I hate to say this, but that 'technician' sounds to be terminally clueless. I fail to see how he can't tell whether it's a fault on the mainboard or an open-circuit head connection on one of the drives (First question : does one drive work correctly and the other fail, or what?). Has he done any meaningful tests at all? -tony From ghldbrd at ccp.com Thu Jul 3 20:07:01 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64 In-Reply-To: References: from "Lance S" at Jul 3, 3 11:22:29 pm Message-ID: <1869.65.123.179.172.1057280297.squirrel@webmail2.ccp.com> > > Err... This worries me. How can he not know if the head connections are > open-circuit (they are not hard to test!). Why can't the cable be > replaced (I've resoldered connections inside drive head assemblies many > times). It's a lot easier to replace the cable (if that's the problem) > than to replace the head, since if you do the latter you'll need the > right alignment disk to set it up. > I remember on my first 1541 that the drive head and cable were moulded together (cheap b*st**ds) -- replacement was the only solution there. I sent my drive to a factory authorized tech who wanted >$150 to repair the drive, and new drives were about $200 and dropping. I took a wild guess at the cable broken from the multiple head travels, and ordered one ($30~) from Grapevine in NY. I replaced the head, did a quick alignment and it is still working to this day, 25 years later. I bought a second drive and it now has the same problem, and I don't have another head to replace that one, until I find a junk 1541 with a good head. They should have been built with a film ribbon like the printers use on print heads rather than small gauge stranded wire. Another blatant effort by Commode-door to make things cheaper. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 3 21:09:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: DEC RF74 pricing In-Reply-To: <004801c34187$520a4120$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20030704020442.2667.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Allain wrote: > Hi, > > Anybody reccomend any good DEC resellers? > I have one here, am about to deal with him, > but before doing so did a web search for prices. I have had good dealings with Newman and Great Lakes (personally and for my employers). I had some not-so-smooth dealings with Computer Clearing House a while back (1987), but things were eventually made to my satisfaction. They might have improved since than. > I have RF74's in hand. > Some resellers advertise them for $500~$900. > What I also have is an offer from someone to buy my > drives for $125/each. That's about right... resellers will pay 1/4 to 1/3 of the price they expect to resell at. Lower if it's not a hot item. > AFAIK the RF74 was the largest non-SCSI drive DEC > ever made, @3.5G. Yep... I just gave away a box of those not too long ago (to a list member). -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 3 21:19:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 8250 LP Double disk drive for the In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030704021536.37990.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > It suggests that the "fragile" part is a 6530 - a part made by > > Commodore that was always customized for its particular application... > > Mine has that, but I thought the chips on the daughtercard were a 6530 > (from which the ROM section is not used, so any 6530 should work), and a > ROM. Oh, and maybe a bit of glue logic. Ah... they must have been recycling old 6530s rather than making new ones. That's handy to know (I have a few DOS 1 6530s from the bench of the former local C= dealer that came out of 2040s that were upgraded to 4040s; likewise, I have no "4040s", just upgraded 2040s). > ... 8050, for which I have the service manual... I also have a wide variety of original C= service manuals (from that same defunct dealer). I might have the 8250 manual, but I'm sure Tony is correct - the flash codes should be the same. -ethan From thompson at new.rr.com Thu Jul 3 21:34:01 2003 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: DEC RF74 pricing In-Reply-To: <20030704020442.2667.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Jul 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- John Allain wrote: > I have had good dealings with Newman and Great Lakes (personally > and for my employers). I had some not-so-smooth dealings with > Computer Clearing House a while back (1987), but things were > eventually made to my satisfaction. They might have improved > since than. > You might watch ebay , I see them every so often. I have had recent good dealings with Computer Clearing House and no negative doings with Newman or NA technologies or Digital Brothers although their prices (on things more recent than DSSI) tend to be less comptetive than CCH. -- From patrick at evocative.com Thu Jul 3 21:40:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64 In-Reply-To: <1869.65.123.179.172.1057280297.squirrel@webmail2.ccp.com> Message-ID: > They should have been built with a film ribbon like the printers use on > print heads rather than small gauge stranded wire. Another blatant effort > by Commode-door to make things cheaper. Gary, I may be wrong (and I'm sure a lot of folks will chime in if I am), but it seems to me that most of the drives I look at, even modern ones, have that thin-wire construction connecting head to board. I don't think that's unusual, and C*dore probably didn't get much choice from their vendor, or at least see a need to choose a vendor that could supply something different from what may have been the norm. --Patrick From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jul 4 00:14:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64 In-Reply-To: <1869.65.123.179.172.1057280297.squirrel@webmail2.ccp.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Jul 2003 ghldbrd@ccp.com wrote: > I sent my drive to a factory authorized tech who wanted >$150 to repair > the drive, and new drives were about $200 and dropping. I took a wild > guess at the cable broken from the multiple head travels, and ordered one > ($30~) from Grapevine in NY. I replaced the head, did a quick alignment > and it is still working to this day, 25 years later. I bought a second ^^^^^^^^ That can't be right. The Commodore 64 is only 20 years old this year. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 4 01:52:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:42 2005 Subject: 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030704064751.44841.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 3 Jul 2003 ghldbrd@ccp.com wrote: > > > I sent my drive to a factory authorized tech who wanted >$150 to repair > > the drive, and new drives were about $200 and dropping... > > I replaced the head, did a quick alignment and it is still working to > > this day, 25 years later. I bought a second > ^^^^^^^^ > > That can't be right. The Commodore 64 is only 20 years old this year. I had my hands on one in April of 1982, serial number 2007. My first job was programming it for the company that received it as a pre-release development system. According to "The Secret Timeline" at http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/ckb/secret/timeline.html The C-64 was announced in January, 1982. So... it was 20 last year, but still not 25. -ethan From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Fri Jul 4 08:16:01 2003 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: PDP-11 Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 (Originally Produced by Tim Shoppa) Message-ID: <3F057D18.A3A76D94@compsys.to> In regard to the Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 that Tim Shoppa originally produced: I am in the middle of finishing a third (very small) batch of CDs and could easily add a few additional copies. I will be making all copies of the CD images from: ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/cd-images/ http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/ http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RSX-11/ Since not everyone has both a high speed internet connection and a CD burner, I thought it would be helpful to make them available. If you have both requirements and are using Windows 98 SE / Nero Burning, I can help with the details if you don't know how to burn a CD from an "Image File". I have even been able to produce a label for each CD that is close to the original label from Tim Shoppa, although since they were scanned (THANK YOU FOR THE HELP), they are not perfect. They are available at $ 5 / $ 9 / $ 12 for 1 / 2 / 3 CDs. In addition, I understand that Memorex Black CD-Rs have a longer shelf life and are available at Business Depot. If anyone wants those instead, add $ 1 for each CD that you are requesting. Thus those amounts are $ 6 / $ 11 / $ 15 Please contact me directly for my snail mail address. I picked up some Memorex Black CD-R blanks and started on the copies for those who have already requested that a Black CD-R be used. Please include your mailing address!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In general, I will regard any funds you send as a gift so that if anyone really can't afford the CDs, please state why that is so. Outside of the US, probably about $ 2 should be sufficient for extra postage. All amounts are in US dollars. Please ask if you are not in the US. No point in converting twice. In addition, probably most people do not follow the exchange rate between the Canadian / US dollar, but the current rate is MUCH less favourable. If a 4th batch is ever made, the amounts to be sent will need to be changed. I will keep the amounts the same this time, but the $ 12 will become $ US 14 and the $ 15 will become $ US 18 based on the current exchange rate and adjusted at the time if the exchange rate changes again. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From ian_primus at yahoo.com Fri Jul 4 08:20:01 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: New finds and disorganization Message-ID: <9BEE6798-AE21-11D7-B4E7-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> This week has been pretty hectic, what with working late and at the same time acquiring new hardware, all in the midst of my current project of trying to reorganize and clean the basement. The three day weekend should give me some time to catch up on stuff though. Anyway, apologies again to those of you that wanted to buy something, I'll get everything straightened out here soon. My new finds this week: A Prime 5340 minicomputer. This is a really interesting machine, it seems to be pretty loaded with expansion hardware, and even came with two waist high rack cabinets, one with a 9 track tape drive, and one with two more hard drives. I even got a stack of software manuals. This thing took a lot of work to move, and I haven't really had the time to start cleaning and documenting any of it yet, let alone even think of powering it up. Before I power it up I need to go through and check the power supply, as this had been sitting for a while. I also don't have any software for it, although the hard drives should have the operating system and stuff. This will be an interesting project, especially since this is the first large computer in my collection, and I haven't really worked on machines like this before. Tektronix 4051 computer. This is pretty neat too, it has a built in storage tube for the screen, and a tape cartridge drive. It was absolutely filthy when I got it, but I managed to get it cleaned up and tested. The computer works, but the tape drive needs some help. The eject mechanism is broken, and it won't read any tapes. Now, I only have two tapes, and they were stored in the back of the manual, which was with the computer, in a filthy storage area, so I don't know how good the tapes are. I would be interested in getting a known good tape so I can be sure the drive reads. This weekend will be spent on cleaning the basement, finding someplace good in the basement to put the large Prime computer, and getting stuff ready to ship out to people. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 4 16:09:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 8250 LP Double disk drive for the In-Reply-To: <20030704021536.37990.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 3, 3 07:15:36 pm Message-ID: > --- Tony Duell wrote: > > > It suggests that the "fragile" part is a 6530 - a part made by > > > Commodore that was always customized for its particular application... > > > > Mine has that, but I thought the chips on the daughtercard were a 6530 > > (from which the ROM section is not used, so any 6530 should work), and a > > ROM. Oh, and maybe a bit of glue logic. > > Ah... they must have been recycling old 6530s rather than making > new ones. That's handy to know (I have a few DOS 1 6530s from Yes. I've looked at the schematics and 6530 data sheet, and it's certain from the former that the chip is a 6530. The ROM is not used (RSO is tied high). Instead, there's a 2716 EPROM, with a 74LS04 inverter to sort the chip select out. Looking at the data sheet, it appears that certain other things were mask-selectable, not just the ROM code. Things like whether certain pins were port lines or chip selects. So I guess not _all_ 6530s will work. But I think all 6530s from CBM drives will. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 4 16:12:59 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64 In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Rigney" at Jul 3, 3 07:35:43 pm Message-ID: > Gary, I may be wrong (and I'm sure a lot of folks will chime in if I am), > but it seems to me that most of the drives I look at, even modern ones, have > that thin-wire construction connecting head to board. I don't think that's My experience is that 3.5" drives tend to use tapewire, as do some half-height 5.25" ones. 8" drives, full-height 5.25" and other half-height 5.25" use conventional screened cables. -tony From mbg at TheWorld.com Fri Jul 4 16:47:00 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: CIS chip for 11/23[+] Message-ID: <200307042142.RAA6397529@shell.TheWorld.com> Since this chip has been asked about on occasion here, I thought I would point out that one is up for auction on ebay (no, I have no connection with the auction)... it has a picture of the chip, for those who have wanted to see what it looks like... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2739025363&category=1247 Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | Member of Technical Staff | megan at savaje.com | | SavaJe Technologies, Inc. | (s/ at /@/) | | 100 Apollo Drive | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Chelmsford, MA 01460 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | 978 256 6521 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Fri Jul 4 20:58:00 2003 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: line ptrs References: <3F057D18.A3A76D94@compsys.to> Message-ID: <054901c34297$defaf730$6f00a8c0@athlon> someone may be interested in these- http://edebris.com/catalog2/item/748 DaveB From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Fri Jul 4 21:16:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: line ptrs In-Reply-To: <054901c34297$defaf730$6f00a8c0@athlon> References: <3F057D18.A3A76D94@compsys.to> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030704220840.00a68ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Dave, I talked with Bob yesterday. I think he told me he sold one of those on eBay, and just let the buyer have all the rest. Bob is getting rid of a bunch of his stuff and getting ready to move to Oahu. Best Regards At 01:50 PM 7/5/03 +1200, you wrote: >someone may be interested in these- >http://edebris.com/catalog2/item/748 > >DaveB From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Jul 5 09:58:01 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: Non-interlaced, mono monitors? References: <3.0.6.16.20030702212202.42a7b00c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3F04AE7D.3020103@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3F06E6A8.3050603@tiac.net> I've got an unusual video board I'd like to play with... This board usually generates NTSC interlaced video, but some came with a crystal and jumpering option to set the board for 60 hz vertical refresh. This is the version of the hardware I have. My documentation is not complete, but... I'm assuming the boards generate composite video exactly like NTSC, only non-interlaced. The resolution is 256 by 256. Exactly what sort of monitor can be fairly easily hacked to display this video signal? From T.Shaw at corp.amc.edu.au Sat Jul 5 15:08:00 2003 From: T.Shaw at corp.amc.edu.au (Tim Shaw) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: iUP-201 PC software Message-ID: <000d01c3411e$32e9e700$2f03d39d@amc.edu.au> Hi Robert I found your request for modules for a iUP201 Universal Programmer. I have just dusted off a iUP-201 we have had sitting on a shelf for as long as anyone here can remember. I cant help you with modules but I would be very grateful if you could help me with software to drive it from a PC. I need to use it to read the contents of a 2732 EPROM from an engine volume generator I hope to update. regards Tim Shaw T.Shaw@corp.amc.edu.au Senior Technical Officer (Elect) +61-3-63354805 Ph Technical Services +61-3-63266493 Fax Australian Maritime College www.amc.edu.au From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Jul 5 15:11:33 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: Acorn Atom Prophet (was: RE: Acorn (Was Re: Reading PDP-8 paper tapes)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: 01 July 2003 22:01 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Acorn (Was Re: Reading PDP-8 paper tapes) > > > Other obscure Acorn kit that I have: the "Prophet" - a version of > > the Atom targetted at businesses. Never seen a single mention of > > Interesting. Never heard of that one... It's been posted here before, and for some reason we ended up with the concensus that ths machine was targetted at the Dutch market, I think because someone in Holland has one. A list member here has one too I think. No mention of Acorn on the case, and isn't the case painted red or something? Ah! A swift google turns up this (not much use to you, Tony, but there's text there too) http://www.astro.livjm.ac.uk/~bbc/pictures/atom/computer/ which is a prophet2. I knew there was red in there somewhere :) cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Jul 5 15:14:18 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Vintage Computer Festival > Sent: 01 July 2003 16:21 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? > > > *cough* > > > > http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Tandy/trs80iii16k.htm > > > > *cough* > > I didn't doubt that there were more out there in the world, just that the > one I have is the only one I've ever seen. > > Someone, somewhere probably has a garage full of them for no good reason. Somewhere, possibly on trash80.org, is a writeup on why this machine came into being - aside from it being 'cheap' I can't see the point of such a low-spec machine, particularly since upgrading it wouldn't have been for the faint-hearted. Another puzzle is why mine came with a 240V printer when it was a 110V US machine? How common is a 240V circuit over there, apart for the likes of washing machines? cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From dl7ef at t-online.de Sat Jul 5 15:17:07 2003 From: dl7ef at t-online.de (Dr. Alexander J. Hoffmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: Xebec MFM Controller Message-ID: <000801c3427b$caac3580$1b01a8c0@Studio> I just owned a 5160 XT IBM. I got the described Xebec Controller. I got the problem, that error 1701 while booting appears. Now I want to do a low level format. But all Debug Addresses like C800:5 or C800:6 or CE00:5 don´t let the format utility of eprom start. What have i done wrong ? What kind of software could I use and where can I get it ? And what´s the correct address ?? I ´ve got a Seagate ST412. Could you be so nice to send me the softwareutility or / and the correct address of the internal bios lowlevel format utility ??? Thanx in advance You´re my last hope. Alex From jph at stephenson.net.dhis.org Sat Jul 5 15:19:51 2003 From: jph at stephenson.net.dhis.org (jph@stephenson.net.dhis.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: Looking for docs : Daisy wheel printer Qume LetterPro 20s Message-ID: <200307031022.h63AMDQ04402@stephenson.net.dhis.org> Hello, I am looking for documentation about the daisy wheel printer Qume LetterPro 20s (Sprint 12/25) with RS232 interface. especially the control codes. Thanks in advance for all advices. J.-P. Hofer From cbajpai at comcast.net Sat Jul 5 15:22:37 2003 From: cbajpai at comcast.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: Fwd: RE: 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64 In-Reply-To: <20030703011730.23022.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000101c34157$b27cf640$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Can 8050 diskettes be read on the 8250 (can the 8250 sense single sided diskettes)? Which PET drive is compatible with 1571? Ethan...I've accumulated a lot of PET stuff, including a dozen 8032's, a dead SuperPET, some drives (including an 8250) and 3-8K PETs. Love to hear what you have? I wish I had some software! -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 9:18 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Fwd: RE: 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64 --- Lance S wrote: > Chandra, > The 8250 does hook up to a Commodore PET but the stats seem quite > different between the 8050 and 8250. The 8050 is a dual single-sided drive with full-height floppy mechanisms (Tandon or Micropolis, IIRC); the 8250 is virtually the same, but with double-sided mechs. The 8250LP is a newer version of the 8250, somewhat different internally, and uses half-height drives. I have a little of everything for the PET (including hard drives), *except* the 8" drives and the 8250LP, so I can't describe many details. -ethan From jim at q107fm.com Sat Jul 5 15:30:37 2003 From: jim at q107fm.com (Jim Offerdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: Bogen CHS-100A Message-ID: Hi Chris; I could use a schematic for a Bogen CHS-100A. If you have it could you email it to me? Jim Offerdahl mailto:jim@q107fm.com Pine to Prarie Broadcasting, Inc. KKCQ AM&FM/KKEQ FM PO Box 606 Hiway 2 East Fosston, MN 56542 (218) 435-1919 [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From jph at stephenson.net.dhis.org Sat Jul 5 15:32:04 2003 From: jph at stephenson.net.dhis.org (Jean-Pierre HOFER) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: Specs of Personal DECstation 5000/20 Message-ID: <200307041249.h64Cn3m06057@stephenson.net.dhis.org> Hello, I am looking for the specifications of the audio interface in the Personal DECstation 5000/20, especially the required impedances etc. of the speaker and microphone to be connected. Thanks in advance for all advices. Jean-Pierre From jwest at classiccmp.org Sat Jul 5 15:33:29 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: New finds and disorganization References: <9BEE6798-AE21-11D7-B4E7-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002301c34332$588590c0$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> You wrote... > A Prime 5340 minicomputer. This is a really interesting machine, it > seems to be pretty loaded with expansion hardware, and even came with > two waist high rack cabinets, one with a 9 track tape drive, and one > with two more hard drives. I even got a stack of software manuals. Woah! Being a Pick/PrimeInformation nut, I'm very jealous. Great score! Jay West From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sat Jul 5 15:34:53 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: Highest capacity ESDI hard disks Message-ID: <0307042340.AA17286@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Hello folks, I wonder, does anyone know what were the highest capacity ESDI hard disks made? Were there any in the 1 GB range? And last but not least, where can I find such drives? MS From grg2 at comcast.net Sat Jul 5 15:36:17 2003 From: grg2 at comcast.net (George R. Gonzalez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: Eagle computer question? Message-ID: <000a01c342ef$1bf42d30$11a8a8c0@grgcptr> Well, I've done it now. I put an old Eagle computer up for auction, and I included a bit of history about "Eagle Conmputer", but now I wonder if I goofed up big-time on the history. As I recall, Many many years ago (around 1982?) I read in InfoWorld that Eagle Computer's president met a tragic end, just after the company went public, or get a big bunch of financing, or somesuch. Something along the lines of his car ran off the road after a celebratory party. If you've driven Hwy 17 at night (between San Jose and Scotts Valley), you know it's a real damp-armpits trip, even when sober. About 300 twisty turny bits, rising and falling, no streetlights, few guardrails, steep dropoffs. But now as I search the Web, I can't find any trace of this news item. Did I imagine it? Have I got the wrong company? Anybody recall? It's awful turning 50! Thanks, George From nbreeden2 at comcast.net Sat Jul 5 15:37:41 2003 From: nbreeden2 at comcast.net (Neil Breeden II) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: MMD-2 Docs Message-ID: <00db01c3431b$54e3d060$6400a8c0@nbreedenhome2> Hi all, Does anyone have docs for the E&L MMD-2 I could get a copy of. There is nothing useful on the web, the archives here also didn't yield anything useful except for someone else looking for MMD-1 docs. Thanks, -Neil From jwest at classiccmp.org Sat Jul 5 15:41:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: DEC RF74 pricing References: Message-ID: <004d01c34333$6f29a860$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I've had very good luck with Mitch Miller at Keyways. Check keyways.com Jay West From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jul 5 15:42:29 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: Xebec MFM Controller In-Reply-To: <000801c3427b$caac3580$1b01a8c0@Studio> References: <000801c3427b$caac3580$1b01a8c0@Studio> Message-ID: <20030705132540.T77823@newshell.lmi.net> On Sat, 5 Jul 2003, Dr. Alexander J. Hoffmann wrote: > I just owned a 5160 XT IBM. I got the described Xebec Controller. I got the > problem, that error 1701 while booting appears. > Now I want to do a low level format. But all Debug Addresses like C800:5 or > C800:6 or CE00:5 don´t let the format utility of eprom start. > What have i done wrong ? What kind of software could I use and where can I get > it ? And what´s the correct address ?? > I ´ve got a Seagate ST412. > Could you be so nice to send me the softwareutility or / and the correct > address of the internal bios lowlevel format utility ??? For the IBM version of the Xebec controller (as opposed to Xebec ones for XT sold by anybody other than IBM), you are supposed to use the "Advanced Diagnostics" (NOT the "Diagnostics" that came with the machine, but the ones that came with the maintenance and repair manual (NOT the "Technical Reference")) IBM intended the low level formatting to be done by their technicians, NOT by end users. Alternatively, MOST people consider SpeedStor to be a significantly better way to do the low level formatting. From h.godavari at shaw.ca Sat Jul 5 16:04:00 2003 From: h.godavari at shaw.ca (Harsha Godavari) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: Xebec MFM Controller References: <000801c3427b$caac3580$1b01a8c0@Studio> Message-ID: <3F073BA4.694BCAF2@shaw.ca> Download SEAGATE'S lowlevel format utility SGTFMT4.ZIP (53.8k) from http://www.simtel.net/pub/pd/44430.html. That should do the job. Regards Harsha Godavari "Dr. Alexander J. Hoffmann" wrote: > > I just owned a 5160 XT IBM. I got the described Xebec Controller. I got the > problem, that error 1701 while booting appears. > > Now I want to do a low level format. But all Debug Addresses like C800:5 or > C800:6 or CE00:5 don?t let the format utility of eprom start. > What have i done wrong ? What kind of software could I use and where can I get > it ? And what?s the correct address ?? > I ?ve got a Seagate ST412. > Could you be so nice to send me the softwareutility or / and the correct > address of the internal bios lowlevel format utility ??? > > Thanx in advance > > You?re my last hope. > > Alex From cb at mythtech.net Sat Jul 5 16:11:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: Bogen CHS-100A Message-ID: >I could use a schematic for a Bogen CHS-100A. If you have it could you email >it to me? Was there a HUGE delay in some people receiving posts? Or did part of the archives only recently get picked up by google or something similar? This is the 2nd request recently for manuals that I offered to the list some MONTHS ago. Fortunatly, I am very very very slow at actually taking my recycling pile out, so the manuals are still in my office, just burried at the bottom of the pile. -chris From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Sat Jul 5 16:46:01 2003 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: Fwd: Monrobots Message-ID: <77139410-AF31-11D7-A947-0003937B82DA@xlisper.mv.com> Here is the latest message I've received about the Monrobot XI computers. While I'm glad that they are going to a collector, I'm sorry to hear that none will be available for anyone else. I just hope that this collector will make them available in some sort of museum or open collection. I'd love to have a chance to see one in person again. Also, I'm trying to contact Fred to determine if his offer to duplicate the documentation is still open. Begin forwarded message: > From: Thomasduplex@aol.com > Date: Sat Jul 5, 2003 1:49:46 PM US/Eastern > To: dbetz@xlisper.mv.com > Subject: Monrobots > > > Thanks for your interest in these computers. I regret to say that they > are no > longer available. > > We consider ourselves very fortunate that a serious collector of such > computers has made a very attractive offer for all of them as a single > package. Since > you are interested and he may wish to dispose of some of them, I will > certainly supply him with your name. > > Fred Thomas From jwest at classiccmp.org Sat Jul 5 17:08:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: RT-11 buglist Message-ID: <027301c34341$62aa2980$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> The RT-11 buglist has been updated with some new known bugs. Check it out at: http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/ Version 1.0 of the buglist is there as well as the new 1.1 version. Interested parties may want to poke around www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11 to see what else new might be there as well. Regards, Jay West From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 5 17:13:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: Fwd: RE: 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64 In-Reply-To: <000101c34157$b27cf640$6f7ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <20030705220839.27749.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Chandra Bajpai wrote: > Can 8050 diskettes be read on the 8250 (can the 8250 sense single sided > diskettes)? Which PET drive is compatible with 1571? I'm not sure... that stuff is kinda new compared to what I have. When I used PETs every day, I was using cassette tape. I got a 2040/4040 drive about 8 years after my first C-64/1541. > Ethan...I've accumulated a lot of PET stuff, including a dozen 8032's, a > dead SuperPET, some drives (including an 8250) and 3-8K PETs. Love to > hear what you have? I wish I had some software! I have a couple of 2001N-32s (marketed in Europe as the 3032), several 8032s, several 2040s upgraded to 4040s (DOS 2 firmware), at least one 8050, a 2031 (looks like a 1541 with an IEEE-488 port), a couple of hard disks (9060 and 9090), printers, and some wierd add-ons (IEEE-488 serial interfaces, a "port maker" 6551 plug-in, 64K expanded RAM boards, the guts from a SuperPet as upgrade spares (NIB), a couple modern C2N232 interfaces (tape-interface to serial) and all the service docs. I have a few disks of games and what-not I accumulated over the years, much of it I spun off of original, commercial tapes. I also have utilities, assemblers, etc., but I have tended of late to use VICE under UNIX to do PET development (like to port Zork from the C-64 to the PET). All in all, I probably have five or six floppies of PET stuff. Currently, I'm stalled because my favorite environment is still BASIC 2.0, not BASIC 4.0, and my older PET is flakey when it comes to disk access. I've replaced the PIAs and VIAs; now I'm looking at replacing the leaf- sockets with machined-pin sockets. After that, I don't know, unless it's oxidation on the IEEE-488 edge connector. -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 5 17:15:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: Japanese exchange rates/cost of eating out (was Re: "The Mark-8 was an Intel 8008") In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030705221120.37058.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Don Maslin wrote: > And 360 yen to the dollar back in the late 60s. Wow... that would have been great. I watched the drachma erode in Greece before they went Euro. :-( > One of the nice things that Japanese restaurants did - and may still do > - is display plastic models of their servings at the entrance to the > place. Very useful for those of us who don't read Kanji. Much of the good stuff is porcelain or glass. They make lots of fake Japanese food here in Columbus at an art glass company. -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 5 17:17:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: Eagle computer question? In-Reply-To: <000a01c342ef$1bf42d30$11a8a8c0@grgcptr> Message-ID: <20030705221340.5656.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- "George R. Gonzalez" wrote: > Well, I've done it now. I put an old Eagle computer up for auction, > and I included a bit of history about "Eagle Conmputer", > but now I wonder if I goofed up big-time on the history. > > As I recall, Many many years ago (around 1982?) I read in InfoWorld that > Eagle Computer's president met a tragic end, just after the company went > public, or get a big bunch of financing, or somesuch. I think it was right before they went public, but my memory is hazy, too. It wasn't my area of interest back then... I was in to 8-bit toys. "Big Micros" were too expensive for me, and I was barely into 12-bits at the time. > But now as I search the Web, I can't find any trace of this news item. > Did I imagine it? Have I got the wrong company? Anybody recall? I remember it, too. I worked for a guy in 1988 who had an Eagle. It was PeeCee like on the inside, but the case was entirely different, including the mounting brackets on the ISA cards. -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 5 17:20:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: Highest capacity ESDI hard disks In-Reply-To: <0307042340.AA17286@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <20030705221620.4272.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Michael Sokolov wrote: > Hello folks, > > I wonder, does anyone know what were the highest capacity ESDI hard disks > made? Not sure. > Were there any in the 1 GB range? Yes. I have a couple of 1.2GB ESDI drives in an MBA brand box with an SDI converter attached to my VAX 8200. > And last but not least, where can I find such drives? Dunno, but I'd love to find some largish ESDI drives now... I just got a QD21. I have some Micropoliz 1355 drives that came out of old Sun 3 installations that were attached to some Emulex SCSI<->ESDI bridges. They are about the same capacity as an RD54 (~150MB), so for me, anything larger would be of interest. I'd be happy with 200MB or larger to use with 2.11 BSD. -ethan From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jul 5 17:29:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: Eagle computer question? In-Reply-To: <000a01c342ef$1bf42d30$11a8a8c0@grgcptr> References: <000a01c342ef$1bf42d30$11a8a8c0@grgcptr> Message-ID: <20030705152301.E77823@newshell.lmi.net> On Sat, 5 Jul 2003, George R. Gonzalez wrote: > Well, I've done it now. I put an old Eagle computer up for auction, > and I included a bit of history about "Eagle Conmputer", > but now I wonder if I goofed up big-time on the history. > As I recall, Many many years ago (around 1982?) I read in InfoWorld that > Eagle Computer's president met a tragic end, just after the company went > public, or get a big bunch of financing, or somesuch. Something along the > lines of his car ran off the road after a celebratory party. If you've Yep. My recollection was that it was a brand new Ferrari. > But now as I search the Web, I can't find any trace of this news item. Did > I imagine it? Have I got the wrong company? Anybody recall? It's awful > turning 50! I don't know where to find a citation of it. It keeps getting worse after 50. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Jul 5 17:35:01 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: Eagle computer question? In-Reply-To: <20030705152301.E77823@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <000a01c34345$253b6600$2e42cd18@WaynePC> > On Sat, 5 Jul 2003, George R. Gonzalez wrote: > > Well, I've done it now. I put an old Eagle computer up for > auction, > > and I included a bit of history about "Eagle Conmputer", but now I > > wonder if I goofed up big-time on the history. As I recall, > Many many > > years ago (around 1982?) I read in InfoWorld that Eagle Computer's > > president met a tragic end, just after the company went > public, or get > > a big bunch of financing, or somesuch. Something along the > lines of > > his car ran off the road after a celebratory party. If you've > > Yep. > My recollection was that it was a brand new Ferrari. > You're right -- here's from a recent Washington Post article: The Washington Post, December 16, 1999 December 16, 1999, Thursday, Final Edition SECTION: STYLE; Pg. C01 LENGTH: 4021 words HEADLINE: Cashing In the Chips; When a Little E-Idea Is All It Takes to Become Insanely Rich, Does Wealth Lose Its Value? SERIES: THE NEW GILDED AGE; Pg. occ. BYLINE: David Streitfeld, Washington Post Staff Writer DATELINE: PALO ALTO, Calif. BODY: The Silicon Valley dream has always been about getting your company to the point where complete strangers are able and willing to buy stock in it. Sixteen years ago, a start-up called Eagle Computer Inc. underwent that fabled rite of passage. Eagle President Dennis Barnhart celebrated the day of the stock market debut by drinking with friends. Then he got into his new red Ferrari. When he reached the highway, he hit the gas. Isn't that the point of having a new Ferrari? Barnhart crashed through a guardrail and was killed. Eagle Computer didn't last much longer. What survived was the moral, a kind of object lesson that the grizzled oldsters here would pass on to the wannabe entrepreneurs, kids fresh out of engineering school who had nothing but a dream of taking technology to the masses. Sure, you can get rich here, the wise old hand would say. That's allowed; it's even expected. But don't flaunt it, don't be obnoxious about it, don't get carried away. Because that's what Dennis Barnhart did, and look what happened to him. From bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com Sat Jul 5 17:57:00 2003 From: bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com (Bill McDermith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: Eagle computer question? In-Reply-To: <20030705152301.E77823@newshell.lmi.net> References: <000a01c342ef$1bf42d30$11a8a8c0@grgcptr> <20030705152301.E77823@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <3F07590C.1030101@yahoo.com> A couple of hits from Google: http://www.scripophily.net/eaglecomputer.html Info along with a chance to buy an eagle computer stock certificate :-) Even bankrupt, it seems to be worth more than many blue chip stocks today... http://www.ebnonline.com/25year/25_business1.html (look for headline "Tragedy at Eagle") Interestingly enough, this news clip also appears in several sermons online... Most of the sermons refer to a Los Angeles Times Article... Bill McDermith Fred Cisin wrote: >On Sat, 5 Jul 2003, George R. Gonzalez wrote: > > >>...snip...snip...snip... >>As I recall, Many many years ago (around 1982?) I read in InfoWorld that >>Eagle Computer's president met a tragic end, just after the company went >>public, or get a big bunch of financing, or somesuch. Something along the >>lines of his car ran off the road after a celebratory party. If you've >> >> > >Yep. >My recollection was that it was a brand new Ferrari. >...snip...snip...snip... > >-- >Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jul 5 18:47:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: Highest capacity ESDI hard disks In-Reply-To: <20030705221620.4272.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030705221620.4272.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > > I wonder, does anyone know what were the highest capacity ESDI hard disks > > made? > >Not sure. ISTR, hearing about 1.8GB ones. > > And last but not least, where can I find such drives? > >Dunno, but I'd love to find some largish ESDI drives now... I just >got a QD21. I have some Micropoliz 1355 drives that came out of >old Sun 3 installations that were attached to some Emulex SCSI<->ESDI >bridges. They are about the same capacity as an RD54 (~150MB), so >for me, anything larger would be of interest. I'd be happy with 200MB >or larger to use with 2.11 BSD. I hate to say this, but I suspect it might actually be easier to find a cheap Q-Bus SCSI controller at this point. Granted it takes some luck, but I've not found a ESDI drive in several years. I'll admit I'm not *looking*, but at the same time I'd probably pick up a large ESDI drive if I found one. I wouldn't mind having a couple decent sized ESDI drives myself, though I'd use them on a MicroVAX. I save my SCSI controllers for my PDP-11's! Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jrice54 at charter.net Sat Jul 5 19:07:00 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: Highest capacity ESDI hard disks In-Reply-To: References: <20030705221620.4272.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3F07688E.2020805@charter.net> http://www.harddriveshop.com >I hate to say this, but I suspect it might actually be easier to find a cheap Q-Bus SCSI controller at this point. Granted it takes some luck, but I've not found a ESDI drive in several years. I'll admit I'm not *looking*, but at the same time I'd probably pick up a large ESDI drive if I found one. > > -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From jim at jkearney.com Sat Jul 5 19:52:00 2003 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: Highest capacity ESDI hard disks References: <20030705221620.4272.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <047d01c34358$53642180$0f01090a@xpace.net> > Dunno, but I'd love to find some largish ESDI drives now... I just > got a QD21. I have some Micropoliz 1355 drives that came out of > old Sun 3 installations that were attached to some Emulex SCSI<->ESDI > bridges. They are about the same capacity as an RD54 (~150MB), so > for me, anything larger would be of interest. I'd be happy with 200MB > or larger to use with 2.11 BSD. I've got a couple of ESDI drives that I've had since they were hot and new that I'd give away for the cost of shipping. No guarantee on working condition, but they were okay when put in storage: Imprimis/CDC 94196-766 FH 766MB Miniscribe 3180E HH 160MB Jim From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sat Jul 5 20:52:00 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: Non-interlaced, mono monitors? In-Reply-To: <3F06E6A8.3050603@tiac.net> References: <3.0.6.16.20030702212202.42a7b00c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3F04AE7D.3020103@tiac.net> <3F06E6A8.3050603@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3964.65.123.179.201.1057455811.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> > I've got an unusual video board I'd like to play with... > > This board usually generates NTSC interlaced video, but some came with a > crystal and jumpering option to set the board for > 60 hz vertical refresh. This is the version of the hardware I have. My > documentation is not complete, but... > > I'm assuming the boards generate composite video exactly like NTSC, only > non-interlaced. The resolution is 256 by 256. > > Exactly what sort of monitor can be fairly easily hacked to display this > video signal? Just about any NTSC video monitor will work, no hacking required. I bet you could find some ex-Apple II composite monitor laying around somewhere that would work just peachy. Just don't expect razor sharp video -- NTSC is best for MOVING pictures/gfx. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Sat Jul 5 21:00:01 2003 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: Highest capacity ESDI hard disks References: <0307042340.AA17286@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <3F0781D1.503AF66D@compsys.to> >Michael Sokolov wrote: > Hello folks, > I wonder, does anyone know what were the highest capacity ESDI hard disks made? > Were there any in the 1 GB range? And last but not least, where can I find such > drives? Jerome Fine replies: Hitachi produced the DK516-15 drive which has 1.2 GBytes. I used to use them both with a real PDP-11 with a Sigma RQD11-EC controller and on a Pentium 166 MMX with an Ultrastore (if I remember that controller name correctly) controller. I am gradually selling them as I stop needing the backups I made. They are VERY heavy even for a 5 1/4" full height drive. I am in Toronto. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From fritz.chwolka at t-online.de Sat Jul 5 21:15:00 2003 From: fritz.chwolka at t-online.de (Fritz Chwolka) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: honeywell manuals In-Reply-To: <19Ohiw-27O4pc0@fwd11.sul.t-online.com> Message-ID: <19YxyY-1bOu6y0@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> On Sat, 07 Jun 2003 19:43:25 +0200 (MSZ), Fritz Chwolka wrote: >On Sat, 07 Jun 2003 16:39:54 +0200 (MSZ), Fritz Chwolka wrote: > >>them onto. After scanning they go into the dumpster as I have no place >>left. > > >Correction.. > >the manuals will be given to an interested person here in germany and >will find their way to the US. > The scans are now online. http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/pub/rechner/honeywell/info.htm Greetings from Fritz Chwolka > www.alterechner.de < From donm at cts.com Sat Jul 5 23:37:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: Highest capacity ESDI hard disks In-Reply-To: <3F0781D1.503AF66D@compsys.to> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Jul 2003, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > >Michael Sokolov wrote: > > > Hello folks, > > I wonder, does anyone know what were the highest capacity ESDI hard disks made? > > Were there any in the 1 GB range? And last but not least, where can I find such > > drives? > > Jerome Fine replies: > > Hitachi produced the DK516-15 drive which has 1.2 GBytes. > I used to use them both with a real PDP-11 with a Sigma > RQD11-EC controller and on a Pentium 166 MMX with > an Ultrastore (if I remember that controller name correctly) You do, just drop the 'e'. Nice hardware! - don > controller. > > I am gradually selling them as I stop needing the backups > I made. They are VERY heavy even for a 5 1/4" full > height drive. I am in Toronto. > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > -- > If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail > address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk > e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be > obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the > 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From mrbill at mrbill.net Sun Jul 6 00:15:01 2003 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: Looking for new maintainer for DECVAX.ORG and PDP11.ORG Message-ID: <20030706051114.GA9733@mrbill.net> Hey, everyone. I resubscribed to cctalk tonight. I'm way too swamped lately (in fact, for the past year or two) to adequately maintain the PDP11.ORG and DECVAX.ORG domain(s) and web sites. I'm looking for someone, fairly involved with the community, who would like to take over ownership of the domains, web sites, etc. I can keep hosting the DNS (if you wish), or provide secondary/backup DNS if needed. I just don't have the time to work on them anymore, and have moved away from older DEC stuff. My only "requirement" is that whomever takes over this project (whether it be one person, or two people; one for VAX and one for PDP) is that you put some effort into it, that you be knowledgeable about the subject matter, and that you don't just let the sites languish. Getting reimbursed for the $30 I've spent on renewing the domains this year would be nice, but not required. 8-) I've also got about a truck-full (maybe a station wagon load, maybe less) of old DEC documentation, handbooks, software on paper tape, a disc pack or two... Jeff Sharp has seen my garage. 8-) I can't ship any of it (unless you provide a FedEx or UPS account number to bill to), and would like to avoid throwing it in the trash. At least 3-4 "storage tubs" of manuals and documentation, a mixed VMS 4/5 "orange wall", and various other things. If you're interested, please contact me by email. I don't have time for DEC/PDP stuff anymore, and need the space in my garage back - but want it all to go to someone worthwhile. Bill -- bill bradford mrbill@mrbill.net austin, texas From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sun Jul 6 03:44:00 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: slightly OT: looking for an HP deskjet accessory Message-ID: <4247.65.123.179.146.1057480532.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> I'm sorry, this is only 5 years old, but I'm looking for the large paper feeder that holds a ream of paper for a Hewlett Packard 1600CM printer. I've never seen one, but I think it is a separate unit the printer sits on. Maybe in your travels you might see one in a dusty corner somewhere. Thanks. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Jul 6 09:59:01 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: Well, I was at Fry's in CA... In-Reply-To: <20030701084856.Q32495@newshell.lmi.net> References: <1055270924.2220.16.camel@mail.worldvenue.org> <5.1.1.6.2.20030611212752.02727ec0@mail.zipcon.net> <3F012348.BFD78C71@verizon.net> <20030701084856.Q32495@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <0b26cf0d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <20030701084856.Q32495@newshell.lmi.net> Fred Cisin wrote: > "I've been using Windoze for almost twenty minutes, and it hasn't ever > 'blue-screened'" So? I've been using RISC OS and Linux all day and neither of them have BSODded, died horribly or crashed. And ISTR my ISP has a Solaris server that's been up 24/7 for over six months... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ ... The current limits placed are based on resistance From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Jul 6 10:00:57 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: Well, I was at Fry's in CA... In-Reply-To: <009401c33fe9$650bae20$347ca418@neo.rr.com> References: <3F012348.BFD78C71@verizon.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20030701164123.02285af0@mail.bedlambells.com> <009401c33fe9$650bae20$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <45face0d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <009401c33fe9$650bae20$347ca418@neo.rr.com> "TeoZ" wrote: > I have found many retro computer bargains on ebay where a large percentage > of the total purchase price was in shipping. This is admittedly OT, but I bought a second-hand autowinder for one of my cameras a few days ago. It was sent via (British) Royal Mail's "Special Delivery" service, i.e. it arrives before 12-noon or you get the postage fee back. Well, my autowinder arrived OK, but the box was mangled (thank %DEITY for bubblewrap) and it arrived at, you guessed it, 12:51 PM. And to top it all off, the parcelmonkey didn't bother to knock - he/she/it just shoved a "Come down to the depot to pick up your parcel" card through the door. If it happens again, I'm going to play a fun game of "scream at the customer [dis]services rep"... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ ... Reactance: your imaginary friend. From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Jul 6 10:24:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: New finds and disorganization In-Reply-To: <002301c34332$588590c0$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Jul 2003, Jay West wrote: > You wrote... > > A Prime 5340 minicomputer. This is a really interesting machine, it > > seems to be pretty loaded with expansion hardware, and even came with > > two waist high rack cabinets, one with a 9 track tape drive, and one > > with two more hard drives. I even got a stack of software manuals. > > Woah! Being a Pick/PrimeInformation nut, I'm very jealous. Great score! Aaaargh. A year and a half ago, I had to throw out the Pr1me 550-II, which we used to have at university in Amsterdam. I dreaded that machine, though, but more because of the endless hours screaming at its slowness than because of technical issues. Last year, I had to also throw away its documentation, because nobody (here in NL) wanted it. Docs totalled about 10 feet :) Sad... --fred From jcwren at jcwren.com Sun Jul 6 10:24:09 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA...) In-Reply-To: <0b26cf0d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> References: <1055270924.2220.16.camel@mail.worldvenue.org> <20030701084856.Q32495@newshell.lmi.net> <0b26cf0d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <200307061120.35256.jcwren@jcwren.com> My experience is that the people who have problems with Windows are the people who *want* to have problems with Windows. I have several Win2K boxen here whose only reason for being rebooted every few months is robbing harddrives or CD drives. I also have Linux boxen here, one that currently has an uptime of 187 days. No major record, but it got a new 60GB HD back then. I use Windows pretty hard, with a fairly constant set of software (mapping, CAD software, IE, ProComm, CD ripping, a few other things), and I don't get BSODs or crashes. Perhaps this person should switch an an OS more suited to their expectations. Like pencil and paper. --John On Sunday 06 July 2003 10:52 am, Philip Pemberton wrote: > In message <20030701084856.Q32495@newshell.lmi.net> > > Fred Cisin wrote: > > "I've been using Windoze for almost twenty minutes, and it hasn't ever > > 'blue-screened'" > > So? I've been using RISC OS and Linux all day and neither of them have > BSODded, died horribly or crashed. > And ISTR my ISP has a Solaris server that's been up 24/7 for over six > months... > > Later. From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 6 11:03:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:43 2005 Subject: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Jul 2003, Witchy wrote: > Somewhere, possibly on trash80.org, is a writeup on why this machine came ^^^^^^^^^^^ No such URL. > Another puzzle is why mine came with a 240V printer when it was a 110V US > machine? How common is a 240V circuit over there, apart for the likes of > washing machines? How common is equipment that runs on 240V besides large appliances sold in the US? Not very much. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 6 11:05:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: Eagle computer question? In-Reply-To: <000a01c342ef$1bf42d30$11a8a8c0@grgcptr> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Jul 2003, George R. Gonzalez wrote: > As I recall, Many many years ago (around 1982?) I read in InfoWorld that > Eagle Computer's president met a tragic end, just after the company went > public, or get a big bunch of financing, or somesuch. Something along the > lines of his car ran off the road after a celebratory party. If you've > driven Hwy 17 at night (between San Jose and Scotts Valley), you know it's a > real damp-armpits trip, even when sober. About 300 twisty turny bits, > rising and falling, no streetlights, few guardrails, steep dropoffs. > > But now as I search the Web, I can't find any trace of this news item. Did > I imagine it? Have I got the wrong company? Anybody recall? It's awful > turning 50! It happened. Someone who was acquainted with him e-mailed me once and told me the Reader's Digest version of the story. It was on the day of the company's IPO. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Jul 6 11:09:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA...) In-Reply-To: <200307061120.35256.jcwren@jcwren.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Jul 2003, J.C. Wren wrote: > My experience is that the people who have problems with Windows are the > people who *want* to have problems with Windows. I must second that. > I have several Win2K boxen > here whose only reason for being rebooted every few months is robbing > harddrives or CD drives. Um, or for redoing power lines/ups maint. Like I had to shut down the lot here this weekend, because of ups/power maint in my machine room. > I use Windows pretty hard, with a fairly constant set of software (mapping, > CAD software, IE, ProComm, CD ripping, a few other things), and I don't get > BSODs or crashes. Likewise. Fucked-up drivers are sometimes an issue, especially those for network, sound and video, but if you're careful with those, no real BSOD-ish situations. > Like pencil and paper. Pencils tend to break their tips, at least when I use them. Duh. Does that count as a bug? ;) Cheers, Fred From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Jul 6 11:14:01 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: Eagle computer question? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Jul 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > lines of his car ran off the road after a celebratory party. If you've > > driven Hwy 17 at night (between San Jose and Scotts Valley), you know it's a > > real damp-armpits trip, even when sober. About 300 twisty turny bits, > > rising and falling, no streetlights, few guardrails, steep dropoffs. People crossing the f* road (when you get closer to the Sta Cruz end), and so on. On the way TO sta cruz, beware of drunk-as-a-skunk party people driving (!) back to their homes (around san jose) ... bah. --fred From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jul 6 12:22:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA...) In-Reply-To: <200307061120.35256.jcwren@jcwren.com> References: <1055270924.2220.16.camel@mail.worldvenue.org> <20030701084856.Q32495@newshell.lmi.net> <0b26cf0d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> <200307061120.35256.jcwren@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <20030706101532.X85742@newshell.lmi.net> On Sun, 6 Jul 2003, J.C. Wren wrote: > My experience is that the people who have problems with Windows are the > people who *want* to have problems with Windows. I have several Win2K boxen > here whose only reason for being rebooted every few months is robbing > harddrives or CD drives. I also have Linux boxen here, one that currently > has an uptime of 187 days. No major record, but it got a new 60GB HD back > then. > I use Windows pretty hard, with a fairly constant set of software (mapping, > CAD software, IE, ProComm, CD ripping, a few other things), and I don't get > BSODs or crashes. > Perhaps this person should switch an an OS more suited to their expectations. > Like pencil and paper. Congratulations. YOU haven't had a problem, so you deny that any such problems exist. To quote one of our other readers, "YOU ARE AN ASS." > On Sunday 06 July 2003 10:52 am, Philip Pemberton wrote: > > In message <20030701084856.Q32495@newshell.lmi.net> > > > > Fred Cisin wrote: > > > "I've been using Windoze for almost twenty minutes, and it hasn't ever > > > 'blue-screened'" > > > > So? I've been using RISC OS and Linux all day and neither of them have > > BSODded, died horribly or crashed. > > And ISTR my ISP has a Solaris server that's been up 24/7 for over six > > months... > > > > Later. From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Sun Jul 6 12:55:00 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: Looking for new maintainer for DECVAX.ORG and PDP11.ORG In-Reply-To: <20030706051114.GA9733@mrbill.net> References: <20030706051114.GA9733@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <1057513878.11349.0.camel@unix> On Sun, 2003-07-06 at 01:11, Bill Bradford wrote: > Hey, everyone. I resubscribed to cctalk tonight. > > I'm way too swamped lately (in fact, for the past year or two) to > adequately maintain the PDP11.ORG and DECVAX.ORG domain(s) and web > sites. > Bill, I'd be willing to host www.pdp11.org on my workstation at Virginia Tech. From mrbill at mrbill.net Sun Jul 6 13:00:01 2003 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: Looking for new maintainer for DECVAX.ORG and PDP11.ORG In-Reply-To: <1057513878.11349.0.camel@unix> References: <20030706051114.GA9733@mrbill.net> <1057513878.11349.0.camel@unix> Message-ID: <20030706175612.GO9733@mrbill.net> On Sun, Jul 06, 2003 at 01:51:18PM -0400, Christopher McNabb wrote: > Bill, I'd be willing to host www.pdp11.org on my workstation at Virginia > Tech. Looks like I'm going to be handing it all over to Jay West, who will be hosting it on the same equipment as classiccmp. Bill -- bill bradford mrbill@mrbill.net austin, texas From elecdata1 at gbronline.com Sun Jul 6 13:35:01 2003 From: elecdata1 at gbronline.com (preferred customer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: Eagle computer question? References: <20030705221340.5656.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3F086A99.6B362492@gbronline.com> Yup, We were a service center that was setup in advance. Still have the schematics somewhere. Bill Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- "George R. Gonzalez" wrote: > > Well, I've done it now. I put an old Eagle computer up for auction, > > and I included a bit of history about "Eagle Conmputer", > > but now I wonder if I goofed up big-time on the history. > > > > As I recall, Many many years ago (around 1982?) I read in InfoWorld that > > Eagle Computer's president met a tragic end, just after the company went > > public, or get a big bunch of financing, or somesuch. > > I think it was right before they went public, but my memory is hazy, too. > It wasn't my area of interest back then... I was in to 8-bit toys. > "Big Micros" were too expensive for me, and I was barely into 12-bits > at the time. > > > But now as I search the Web, I can't find any trace of this news item. > > Did I imagine it? Have I got the wrong company? Anybody recall? > > I remember it, too. I worked for a guy in 1988 who had an Eagle. It > was PeeCee like on the inside, but the case was entirely different, > including the mounting brackets on the ISA cards. > > -ethan From jcwren at jcwren.com Sun Jul 6 13:51:00 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA...) In-Reply-To: <20030706101532.X85742@newshell.lmi.net> References: <1055270924.2220.16.camel@mail.worldvenue.org> <200307061120.35256.jcwren@jcwren.com> <20030706101532.X85742@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <200307061446.56117.jcwren@jcwren.com> Don't give me that crap. I've been using personal computers since CP/M 2.2, and whel you may have been doing it longer, I think that's damn well long enough for me to recognize trends. Yes, "normal" people have Windows problems now and again also. MY experience shows that people who have the most problem are those that seem to be already biased against Windows/MS, and are looking for problems. You don't like my theory, too bad. To quote yourself: "YOU ARE AN ASS." --John On Sunday 06 July 2003 13:17 pm, Fred Cisin wrote: > On Sun, 6 Jul 2003, J.C. Wren wrote: > > My experience is that the people who have problems with Windows are the > > people who *want* to have problems with Windows. I have several Win2K > > boxen here whose only reason for being rebooted every few months is > > robbing harddrives or CD drives. I also have Linux boxen here, one that > > currently has an uptime of 187 days. No major record, but it got a new > > 60GB HD back then. > > I use Windows pretty hard, with a fairly constant set of software > > (mapping, CAD software, IE, ProComm, CD ripping, a few other things), and > > I don't get BSODs or crashes. > > Perhaps this person should switch an an OS more suited to their > > expectations. Like pencil and paper. > > Congratulations. > YOU haven't had a problem, so you deny that any such problems exist. > > To quote one of our other readers, "YOU ARE AN ASS." > > > On Sunday 06 July 2003 10:52 am, Philip Pemberton wrote: > > > In message <20030701084856.Q32495@newshell.lmi.net> > > > > > > Fred Cisin wrote: > > > > "I've been using Windoze for almost twenty minutes, and it hasn't > > > > ever 'blue-screened'" > > > > > > So? I've been using RISC OS and Linux all day and neither of them have > > > BSODded, died horribly or crashed. > > > And ISTR my ISP has a Solaris server that's been up 24/7 for over six > > > months... > > > > > > Later. From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Jul 6 14:23:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: Asses (was: Windoze ...) In-Reply-To: <200307061446.56117.jcwren@jcwren.com> Message-ID: People, Can we please drop the name-calling altogether and close this topic? There is absolutely no need for this, and I, for one, do not want to see it in my "retro=fun!" mailbox. Thanks, Fred From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jul 6 15:03:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA...) In-Reply-To: <200307061446.56117.jcwren@jcwren.com> References: <1055270924.2220.16.camel@mail.worldvenue.org> <200307061120.35256.jcwren@jcwren.com> <20030706101532.X85742@newshell.lmi.net> <200307061446.56117.jcwren@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <20030706122201.R85811@newshell.lmi.net> On Sun, 6 Jul 2003, J.C. Wren wrote: > Don't give me that crap. WHICH crap? That it is inappropriate to deny problems exist, merely because you haven't encountered them? or what the Windoze reference was a metaphor for: that it is inappropriate to deny that problems exist with Fry's, merely because one went in there once without any problems? > I've been using personal computers since CP/M 2.2, > and whel you may have been doing it longer, I think that's damn well long > enough for me to recognize trends. If it is meant to IMPRESS, then you gotta do better. BUT,... it does back up your claim to recognize trends, by indicating that you have been around for most of the development of Windoze. (CP/M, DOS, etc.) I had no intention of impugning your length of time in the field. > Yes, "normal" people have Windows problems now and again also. MY experience > shows that people who have the most problem are those that seem to be already > biased against Windows/MS, and are looking for problems. I freely acknowledge that there are SOME people who create their own problems. And here certainly are cases where Windoze gets unfairly blamed for other problems, including user error, and problems in applications and drivers. [Side note: I know of an Office-Jet composting on a shelf that had less than 100 pages through it before an "upgrade" to Win2K resulted in it being permanently removed from availability due to non-existence of drivers.] And some problems are not CAUSED by the OS, but consist merely of GROSSLY inappropriate reactions by the OS to external problems (ex: SMARTDRV write-caching, when encountering a bad sector) And few would differentiate between what is validly a problem with the OS v a problem with inadequate documentation or poor tech support. Some people NEVER have a problem. Sometimes it is due to VERY limitied types of usage (which might not apply to you, although the list of software that you use does not include some catagories of software - could those be related to your more positive experiences?). Sometimes it's just a matter of probabilities. NT,2K, and even XP, are significantly more reliable than 3x and 9x. And I will grudgingly accept the need for added hurdles for intrinsically destabilizing things like writing disk sectors (rather important to some of us). But I hardly think that the current state of reliability is beyond reproach, beyond the possibilities for significant improvement, nor even exempt from complaint. And it will take a long time with high reliability to outlive reputations acquired due to debacles like SMARTDRV. SOME people actually have had unacceptable levels of reliability. Those who have NOT experienced such problems should not marginalize those who do. Blaming the user is not always acceptable. > You don't like my theory, too bad. To quote yourself: "YOU ARE AN ASS." > --John Aren't we all From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jul 6 15:20:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: Asses (was: Windoze ...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030706131450.L85811@newshell.lmi.net> On Sun, 6 Jul 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > People, > Can we please drop the name-calling altogether and close > this topic? There is absolutely no need for this, and I, > for one, do not want to see it in my "retro=fun!" mailbox. > Thanks, > Fred Sorry We'll try to exercise more restraint From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Jul 6 16:17:01 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <88e6f10d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message "Fred N. van Kempen" wrote: > On Sun, 6 Jul 2003, J.C. Wren wrote: > > CAD software, IE, ProComm, CD ripping, a few other things), and I don't get > > BSODs or crashes. > Likewise. Fucked-up drivers are sometimes an issue, especially those > for network, sound and video, but if you're careful with those, no real > BSOD-ish situations. I find the "big guys" like Creative are utterly crap when it comes to drivers and tech support. "There's nothing wrong with the driver, it must be your PC." Oh, is that why I saw a good hundred people badmouthing a certain Soundblaster on the newsgroups? Well, speaking of SBs, I had an AWE64. The PnP E2PROM got trashed by a bug in their driver. Their "techie" said, and I quote: "Well, your guarantee's void. You used unapproved drivers and it broke, so you're on your own". I asked how they could tell that I had used unapproved drivers. The techie said "Well, you obviously used the beta drivers on our website, 'cos that's a known bug". Despite the fact that at this point I had no internet access and had heard many a horror story about beta drivers... Then there was the fun I had with a D-Link network card (based on a Realtek chipset). Here's a tip - grab Realtek's latest driver kit and install it. I had lost packets, Windows networking errors, you name it. Upgraded the drivers and the network card suddenly started working properly... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ Error 8472. Borg dumped. From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jul 6 16:28:01 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: OT: Realtek; Was Re: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA...) In-Reply-To: <88e6f10d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> References: <88e6f10d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <3F089393.5060101@mdrconsult.com> Philip Pemberton wrote: > Then there was the fun I had with a D-Link network card (based on a Realtek > chipset). Here's a tip - grab Realtek's latest driver kit and install it. I > had lost packets, Windows networking errors, you name it. Upgraded the > drivers and the network card suddenly started working properly... I have a better tip - don't buy Realtek. Period. They're not horrible for casual use, say a single box surfing over cable or DSL, but on a high-traffic connection, they eat a *lot* of CPU time. The Realtek chipsets offload a lot of the packet processing to the main CPU, just like a Winmodem. Doc From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Jul 6 16:45:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: OT: Realtek; Was Re: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA...) In-Reply-To: <3F089393.5060101@mdrconsult.com> References: <88e6f10d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> <3F089393.5060101@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <1a54f40d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <3F089393.5060101@mdrconsult.com> Doc wrote: > I have a better tip - don't buy Realtek. Period. They're not > horrible for casual use, say a single box surfing over cable or DSL, but > on a high-traffic connection, they eat a *lot* of CPU time. The Realtek > chipsets offload a lot of the packet processing to the main CPU, just > like a Winmodem. I've got a 3com Etherlink-III (3C509) ISA-bus board in the router/server machine, an EL3 in one of the other machines, an Intel PRO-100 PCI in storage and the DLink in one of the PCs. Oh, and there's an i-cubed EtherLAN600 (Winbond chipset ISTR) in the RiscPC... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ ... The current limits placed are based on resistance From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jul 6 16:54:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: OT: Realtek; Was Re: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA...) In-Reply-To: <3F089393.5060101@mdrconsult.com> References: <88e6f10d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> <3F089393.5060101@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <20030706144941.K87023@newshell.lmi.net> Welcome to Driver Hell. From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Jul 6 17:03:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: PDP-11 hardware & software usage poll In-Reply-To: <1a54f40d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: Hi All, For those of you who don't follow alt.sys.pdp11: I set up a simple web page to start an inventory poll on the number and types of PDP-11 systems used by hobbyists, the operating systems in use on them, and what, if any, licenses are being used for those systems. All this has to do with the whole Mentec not having a license program for the PDP-11 R* operaing systems (RT, RSX and RSTS). After some discussion with Mentec, the site was set up to do the gathering of numbers so we can convince their Management that there are many systems in hobby use, and that there's enough people willing to aquire such a license. Please check out http://www.pdp11.nl/poll.htm and do your magic. None of the information provided will be transferred to anyone- only the summarized info will be made available in a report to Mentec - a copy of which you can request by requesting the 'feedbeck' stuff in the poll. Thanks, and spread the word ! Fred From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Jul 6 17:18:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: OT: Realtek; Was Re: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA...) References: <88e6f10d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> <3F089393.5060101@mdrconsult.com> <20030706144941.K87023@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <004901c3440b$fc623750$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Interesting. I have had very odd performance with Realtek cards on FreeBSD. So much so that I stopped using them. I've also had some of the same problems with certain older 3com cards. Soon as I put in a modern card, all problems disappeared. The basic gist of the problems was sporadically very very poor throughput, then suddenly great throughput. It SEEMED almost like a 10/100 duplex mismatch, but it wasn't. Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin" To: Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2003 4:50 PM Subject: Re: OT: Realtek; Was Re: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA...) > Welcome to Driver Hell. From hansp at citem.org Sun Jul 6 17:21:00 2003 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: Eagle computer question? In-Reply-To: <000a01c342ef$1bf42d30$11a8a8c0@grgcptr> References: <000a01c342ef$1bf42d30$11a8a8c0@grgcptr> Message-ID: <3F083DF9.9040504@citem.org> George R. Gonzalez wrote: > As I recall, Many many years ago (around 1982?) I read in InfoWorld that > Eagle Computer's president met a tragic end, just after the company went > public, or get a big bunch of financing, or somesuch. Something along the > lines of his car ran off the road after a celebratory party. If you've > driven Hwy 17 at night (between San Jose and Scotts Valley), you know it's a > real damp-armpits trip, even when sober. About 300 twisty turny bits, > rising and falling, no streetlights, few guardrails, steep dropoffs. It was'nt HW17 it was actually in Los Gatos, the road along the lake (what is that called....? me truning 50 also ;-) not too many yards from the Eagle office. I remember the event, the year would be a year or two later than you cite IIRC. It was the day they went public, he drove his brand new ferrari into a tree. I lived right down the road from there at the time and passed that tree many, many times. Another Eagle story is that IBM started leagal actions to sue them for BIOS copyright infringement. I was at Gavilan at the time and we visited Eagle to discuss the IBM issues. As I recall it Eagle told us that IBM had some form of binary code analyser which had shown up some relativly isolated common code sequences. I do not recall the outcome but I think Eagle survived after that, but not for long... -- hbp From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jul 6 17:35:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: OT: Realtek; Was Re: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA...) In-Reply-To: <004901c3440b$fc623750$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <88e6f10d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> <3F089393.5060101@mdrconsult.com> <20030706144941.K87023@newshell.lmi.net> <004901c3440b$fc623750$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <3F08A339.2050607@mdrconsult.com> Jay West wrote: > The basic gist of the problems was sporadically very very poor throughput, > then suddenly great throughput. It SEEMED almost like a 10/100 duplex > mismatch, but it wasn't. We had a client who, after spending ~$2000 on a firewall PC, populated it with $9 Realtek cards. 1 outside interface and 4 inside. It was running Linux, a v2.4.17 kernel. The thing ran all the internal interfaces at near saturated levels, and was showing 1.2-2.5 system loads (up to 2.5 processes waiting on CPU time). They were losing a lot of packets. After I talked them into replacing the Realtek cards with 3Com 3C905s, system load dropped to 0.1-0.6, and no more dropped packets. I got curious and set up a Win2k testbed with 3 Realteks, and saw the same behavior under load. You could literally see the CPU load in Task Manager rise as the network traffic increased. They're Win-NICs. It's not a driver issue, it's the way they're designed. Doc From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Jul 6 17:49:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: OT: Realtek; Was Re: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA...) In-Reply-To: <3F08A339.2050607@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Jul 2003, Doc wrote: > They're Win-NICs. It's not a driver issue, it's the way they're > designed. Realtek chipsets indeed act like Winmodem (LT) modem chipsets do for modems: minimize the amount of hardware needed (to save money on that), and do as much as possible in the (driver) software. Meaning, fairly large, complex and cpu-intensive driver code. --fred From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Jul 6 17:50:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: OS uptimes Message-ID: <009101c34410$52ab0110$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> A few posts back there was something about a sun box staying up six months? Humm which release of Solaris was it that 'fixed' a documented 30,000 bugs? There's a saying about wherever you see one cockroach there is 1000 more hidden... *grin* Anyways... that got me thinking so I had to check. I popped into one of our FreeBSD web servers. It hosts a fair number of high volume sites (stevewinwood.com, kellerwilliams.net, and some stringcheeseincident support sites)... the current uptime is.... 5:43PM up 353 days yeahhhhh baby! Jay West From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Jul 6 17:58:00 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: OT: Realtek; Was Re: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA...) In-Reply-To: "Jay West"'s message of "Sun, 6 Jul 2003 17:14:35 -0500" References: <88e6f10d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> <3F089393.5060101@mdrconsult.com> <20030706144941.K87023@newshell.lmi.net> <004901c3440b$fc623750$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <200307062243.h66MhDCw045529@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Jay West" wrote: > Interesting. I have had very odd performance with Realtek cards on FreeBSD. Um, you have read the comments near the head of /usr/src/sys/pci/if_rl.c, haven't you? -Frank McConnell From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Jul 6 18:05:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: Was: OS uptimes, Now: OT cool guitar players In-Reply-To: <009101c34410$52ab0110$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <009101c34410$52ab0110$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Jul 2003, Jay West wrote: > FreeBSD web servers. It hosts a fair number of high volume sites > (stevewinwood.com, kellerwilliams.net, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Wow - Keller Williams! Very Cool, I'm a Fan. Got CDs *and* T-shirts... We now return you to the latest round of Bickering and Billy-Bashing. Cheers Funk-de-Funk From spc at conman.org Sun Jul 6 18:06:00 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: OS uptimes In-Reply-To: <009101c34410$52ab0110$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> from "Jay West" at Jul 06, 2003 05:45:39 PM Message-ID: <20030706230201.A97121457010@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Jay West once stated: > > Anyways... that got me thinking so I had to check. I popped into one of our > FreeBSD web servers. It hosts a fair number of high volume sites > (stevewinwood.com, kellerwilliams.net, and some stringcheeseincident support > sites)... the current uptime is.... 5:43PM up 353 days I just retired my colocated 486 server (33Mhz, 20M RAM, Linux 2.0.39) which had a final uptime of 444 days, 13 hours, 13 minutes. It was probably pumping out 2G of content each month between a dozen sites, and handling email for half a dozen people. It was replaced with a more modern system that will allow us to do a bit more than the 486 could handle (the last two or three months the machine started crawling, but by then we were running Apache, Seminole (another web server my friend is writing for the embedded market) and Postfix (which is a fairly heavy SMTP server, but better than Sendmail)). I was happy to get over a year uptime on the system (it had been in use for nearly four years). -spc (Which reminds me, I need to get it out of the car 8-) From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jul 6 18:09:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: OS uptimes In-Reply-To: <009101c34410$52ab0110$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <009101c34410$52ab0110$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: >sites)... the current uptime is.... 5:43PM up 353 days > >yeahhhhh baby! > >Jay West Yawn.... About the only time an OpenVMS system goes down is for maintenance or a power outage. There is/was a cluster in England with an uptime of something like 19 years. Of course this isn't to say that I haven't managed to crash an OpenVMS system, misconfiguring one, or hardware problems can result in a crash. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Jul 6 18:12:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: OT: Realtek; Was Re: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA...) References: <88e6f10d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> <3F089393.5060101@mdrconsult.com> <20030706144941.K87023@newshell.lmi.net> <004901c3440b$fc623750$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <200307062243.h66MhDCw045529@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <00d101c34413$846d7860$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Frank wrote... > Um, you have read the comments near the head of > /usr/src/sys/pci/if_rl.c, haven't you? No, I hadn't. But I have now. :) Pretty serious ripping from the guy who wrote the driver :) Jay West From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Jul 6 18:16:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: OT Re: OS uptimes References: <20030706230201.A97121457010@swift.conman.org> Message-ID: <00e301c34414$088144b0$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > I just retired my colocated 486 server (33Mhz, 20M RAM, Linux 2.0.39) > which had a final uptime of 444 days, 13 hours, 13 minutes. Now I have something to shoot for. You can bet I will be running in circles anytime I have to do something with that machine to keep from having to reboot it *GRIN* Jay West From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jul 6 19:11:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: Eagle computer question? In-Reply-To: <3F083DF9.9040504@citem.org> References: <000a01c342ef$1bf42d30$11a8a8c0@grgcptr> <3F083DF9.9040504@citem.org> Message-ID: <20030706170352.F87113@newshell.lmi.net> On Sun, 6 Jul 2003, Hans Pufal wrote: > It was the day they went public, he drove his brand new ferrari into a > tree. I lived right down the road from there at the time and passed that > tree many, many times. But you NEVER drove a Ferrari into it! > Another Eagle story is that IBM started leagal actions to sue them for > BIOS copyright infringement. I was at Gavilan at the time and we visited > Eagle to discuss the IBM issues. As I recall it Eagle told us that IBM > had some form of binary code analyser which had shown up some relativly > isolated common code sequences. I do not recall the outcome but I think > Eagle survived after that, but not for long... I liked the Eagle CP/M machines, but their PCs were a little disappointing. (Nothing wrong, just not very interesting) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From kfergaso at swbell.net Sun Jul 6 19:28:01 2003 From: kfergaso at swbell.net (Kelly Fergason) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: OT Re: OS uptimes In-Reply-To: <00e301c34414$088144b0$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: nah, when it gets to 600 days, let us know. I had a sparc 10 which was rebooted when someone hit the big red button accidently, and then stayed up until the next time the big red button was hit. was literally within 1 month of being 2 years uptime, 680ish days as I recall... Solaris 2.4. a hundred Sun servers and a thousand disk drives turning off makes for a really interesting lack of noise.... Kelly -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jay West Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2003 6:12 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: OT Re: OS uptimes > I just retired my colocated 486 server (33Mhz, 20M RAM, Linux 2.0.39) > which had a final uptime of 444 days, 13 hours, 13 minutes. Now I have something to shoot for. You can bet I will be running in circles anytime I have to do something with that machine to keep from having to reboot it *GRIN* Jay West From tarsi at binhost.com Sun Jul 6 19:38:00 2003 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: OT Re: OS uptimes In-Reply-To: <00e301c34414$088144b0$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <20030706230201.A97121457010@swift.conman.org> <00e301c34414$088144b0$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <200307061934.37096@210> Oh, what the hell. Just cleaned out a P133 running Novell 3.11. 637 days up. Fileserver for my business. It hurt to take down and destroy that uptime. Tarsi From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Sun Jul 6 21:30:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030706221918.00a45ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> > How common is equipment that runs on 240V besides large appliances sold in > the US? Not very much. Might depend on what environment it was designed for. If for home or office 110v would be almost exclusively the norm. If it was designed for an industrial environment, 220v may have been used sometimes. Plus, so many pieces of equipment were designed to be switchable between 110v and 220v. At 08:53 AM 7/6/03 -0700, you wrote: >On Thu, 3 Jul 2003, Witchy wrote: > > > Somewhere, possibly on trash80.org, is a writeup on why this machine came > ^^^^^^^^^^^ > >No such URL. > > > Another puzzle is why mine came with a 240V printer when it was a 110V US > > machine? How common is a 240V circuit over there, apart for the likes of > > washing machines? > >How common is equipment that runs on 240V besides large appliances sold in >the US? Not very much. > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 6 22:07:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: Early,Nixdorf personal computer Message-ID: This is a PC clone basically. Normally found in Germany, and throughout Europe. Reply-to: 3cargrandma@earthlink.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 17:04:51 -0500 From: Shirley Miezwa <3cargrandma@earthlink.net> To: Vintage Computer Festival Subject: Early,Nixdorf personal computer. I have an old NIXDORF PERSONAL COMPUTER which came out in about 1987-88. maybe before then. I seem to have misplaced the DOS instructions. I do have serial #. It has a green display screen. and orange -ish- letters. It has a printer attached which heat prints on rolls of fax paper. It is in a suitcase style. It is located in my home in Mpls. Mn. I found it at a rummage sale in New England, I think it was in N.H. about 5 years ago. If their is a Market for it , I want to sell it .I have been told it might have GREAT value to the right person. If you can direct me to the right places to look,I would greatfully accept your help. I do have Poloride Pix I can e-mail if you are intrested. Thank You 3cargrandma@earthlink.net -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 6 22:12:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA...) In-Reply-To: <200307061446.56117.jcwren@jcwren.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Jul 2003, J.C. Wren wrote: > Don't give me that crap. I've been using personal computers since CP/M 2.2, > and whel you may have been doing it longer, I think that's damn well long > enough for me to recognize trends. > > Yes, "normal" people have Windows problems now and again also. MY experience > shows that people who have the most problem are those that seem to be already > biased against Windows/MS, and are looking for problems. > > You don't like my theory, too bad. To quote yourself: "YOU ARE AN ASS." Sheesh. First of all, calm down. You're taking this rather personally. Secondly, I've been involved with computers a long time too. So have a good many other people on this mailing list. One thing that generally ties us together is that we have an appreciation for computers that are robust and bug free. Operating systems prior to Windows generally fit that description. Unless you've been living under a stone, it is generally acknowledge amongst many professional computer people that MS is a joke. Most versions of Windows up until XP were buggy as hell and a pain in the ass to maintain. When I was running Windows 95, I had to reboot a few times a week. When I switched to Windows 98, a few times a month. Now I'm using XP, and I still have to reboot once in a while. Definitely an improvement. But the fact is, most of us have become so jaded with MS "operating systems" that we instinctively think of them as crap. Now, the real question is, why do you take attacks against an operating system personally? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 6 22:14:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA...) In-Reply-To: <20030706122201.R85811@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Jul 2003, Fred Cisin wrote: > > You don't like my theory, too bad. To quote yourself: "YOU ARE AN ASS." > > Aren't we all I certainly am. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From aek at spies.com Sun Jul 6 22:43:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~itda/doc mirror? Message-ID: <200307070341.h673fg0A022149@spies.com> Did anyone mirror the contents of http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~itda/doc before it disappeared in a disc crash last year? I have some of it (the Terak manuals) but didn't copy everything. From ptremewe at bigpond.net.au Sun Jul 6 23:13:00 2003 From: ptremewe at bigpond.net.au (peter tremewen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: Software preservation...... References: Message-ID: <001b01c3443d$710431e0$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> Hi all, I'm fairly new to computer collection as a hobby. One thing that has recently become an issue is "software preservation". I have just inhereted a bucket load of C64 and C128 origainal software. I'm wondering how best to preserve this ciollection in a workable state?? I know there are sites out there in web land that have copies of software for the commodore archived, but how do I place these copies to a disk that a commodore 64/128 could read?? Also what is the best way to store my origainal disks so they might be usable in years to come?? Hope to hear from you all soon Peter T. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Jul 7 00:01:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: OS uptimes In-Reply-To: <009101c34410$52ab0110$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <009101c34410$52ab0110$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Jul 2003, Jay West wrote: > A few posts back there was something about a sun box staying up six months? > Humm which release of Solaris was it that 'fixed' a documented 30,000 bugs? > There's a saying about wherever you see one cockroach there is 1000 more > hidden... *grin* > > Anyways... that got me thinking so I had to check. I popped into one of our > FreeBSD web servers. It hosts a fair number of high volume sites > (stevewinwood.com, kellerwilliams.net, and some stringcheeseincident support > sites)... the current uptime is.... 5:43PM up 353 days > > yeahhhhh baby! % uptime 9:33PM up 418 days, 10:46, 10 users, load averages: 0.58, 0.54, 0.50 It's a NetBSD box I've got co-lo'ed. It would've been more like 565 days, except that the hosting ISP moved their operations across town in May of 2002. -brian. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jul 7 02:03:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: OT Re: OS uptimes In-Reply-To: "Jay West" "OT Re: OS uptimes" (Jul 6, 18:12) References: <20030706230201.A97121457010@swift.conman.org> <00e301c34414$088144b0$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <10307070737.ZM1172@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 6, 18:12, Jay West wrote: > > I just retired my colocated 486 server (33Mhz, 20M RAM, Linux 2.0.39) > > which had a final uptime of 444 days, 13 hours, 13 minutes. > > Now I have something to shoot for. You can bet I will be running in circles > anytime I have to do something with that machine to keep from having to > reboot it *GRIN* A few months ago, my mail server had an uptime of 416 days. I was even watching it to see the magic 10000 hours roll over, having postponed the move to the new UPS just for that. You can guess when we had the 5 minute power cut :-( -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Mon Jul 7 04:36:01 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: CIS chip for 11/23[+] References: <200307042142.RAA6397529@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <3F093DAF.8020308@Vishay.com> Megan wrote: > Since this chip has been asked about on occasion here, I thought I would > point out that one is up for auction on ebay (no, I have no connection > with the auction)... it has a picture of the chip, for those who have > wanted to see what it looks like... > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2739025363&category=1247 Thanks for the heads up! - Unfortunately, I didn't check my mailbox (office) before the auction had ended (weekend), and I am not sure if I had gone up to that amount with an untested part: if I find such a chip, I'd for sure want to implant it in my /23+, so I want a working part. But there are still the pictures, so I now have a better impression of what I'm looking for. -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From ian_primus at yahoo.com Mon Jul 7 05:15:01 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: Software preservation...... In-Reply-To: <001b01c3443d$710431e0$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: <52A7E4DD-B063-11D7-B4E7-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> There is software out there called Star Commander. ( The Star Commander homepage is http://sta.c64.org/sc.html , although it is currently down) It runs in DOS on PC hardware, although it runs best on older PC's (486 and earlier Pentiums). You have to build a fairly simple adapter cable, and that allows you to connect a Commodore 1541 or compatible drive to the PC's parallel port. Once you have it all set up, it is a simple matter to copy either individual files or make disk images. Also, you can go the other way, making real disks from the images. It is kinda slow, the Commodore disk drives were not known for their speed, but there is a way to modify the drive to provide a faster, parallel interface, instead of the Commodore serial. As for preserving the original floppies, keep them in a cool, dry place, preferably standing on end as opposed to laying flat so they don't warp, and in some sort of covered box to keep dust and moisture out. Keep them away from heat, extreme cold, and magnetic fields. 5 1/4 floppies are pretty resilient, and can generally take quite a lot of mishandling before failing, but it's best not to chance it. Also, be careful of mildew. There is a certain type that likes to live on the disk media, and shows up as white blotches on the media itself. This generally destroys the disk, although I have heard it is possible to take the media out of the jacket, carefully clean it, and put it in a fresh jacket and recover the data. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Monday, July 7, 2003, at 12:08 AM, peter tremewen wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm fairly new to computer collection as a hobby. One thing > that has > recently become an issue is "software preservation". I have just > inhereted > a bucket load of C64 and C128 origainal software. I'm wondering how > best to > preserve this ciollection in a workable state?? I know there are sites > out > there in web land that have copies of software for the commodore > archived, > but how do I place these copies to a disk that a commodore 64/128 could > read?? Also what is the best way to store my origainal disks so they > might > be usable in years to come?? > > Hope to hear from you all soon > > Peter T. From nedry at mail.bedlambells.com Mon Jul 7 07:01:00 2003 From: nedry at mail.bedlambells.com (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: PDP-11 hardware & software usage poll In-Reply-To: References: <1a54f40d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030707125649.01b20008@mail.bedlambells.com> You've got my vote. I'll try to contact my friend (who has my actual PDP 11/23) and get him to vote as well... Take Care, Mark At 23:59 06/07/2003 +0200, you wrote: >Hi All, > >For those of you who don't follow alt.sys.pdp11: I set up >a simple web page to start an inventory poll on the number >and types of PDP-11 systems used by hobbyists, the operating >systems in use on them, and what, if any, licenses are being >used for those systems. > >All this has to do with the whole Mentec not having a license >program for the PDP-11 R* operaing systems (RT, RSX and RSTS). > >After some discussion with Mentec, the site was set up to do >the gathering of numbers so we can convince their Management >that there are many systems in hobby use, and that there's >enough people willing to aquire such a license. > >Please check out > > http://www.pdp11.nl/poll.htm > >and do your magic. None of the information provided will be >transferred to anyone- only the summarized info will be made >available in a report to Mentec - a copy of which you can >request by requesting the 'feedbeck' stuff in the poll. > >Thanks, and spread the word ! > >Fred [---------] "Homer, we don't have to have sex." "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." "Deserts aren't always right Homer." "But they're so delicious." Website: retrobbs.org BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org [---------] From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Jul 7 08:36:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: Older wordprocessing software Message-ID: <20030707133224.67983.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, perhaps pusing the boundaries of off-topicness here a little, but... I'm taking suggestions for wordprocessing software to run on an older 486 laptop (1994, so almost within the 10 year limit!) that's running Windows 3.11 ... I still use the machine for a bit of wordprocessing ocassionally (such as it is with Windows Write), and better software would be nice. The laptop's handy for taking stuff down on before formatting things 'properly' on a more modern desktop. I remember Ami Pro being quite reasonable on a similar spec desktop machine, but my copy went to tape years ago and around half of the old tapes of mine that I found recently are no longer readable :-( Suggestions of alternative software welcome though... cheers Jules ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Mon Jul 7 09:12:01 2003 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:44 2005 Subject: Older wordprocessing software In-Reply-To: <20030707133224.67983.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004001c34491$0ee8f280$023ca8c0@blafleur> Wordperfect 5.1. It's DOS based, but probably the most capable word processing software of that era. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jules Richardson Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 9:32 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Older wordprocessing software Hi all, perhaps pusing the boundaries of off-topicness here a little, but... I'm taking suggestions for wordprocessing software to run on an older 486 laptop (1994, so almost within the 10 year limit!) that's running Windows 3.11 ... I still use the machine for a bit of wordprocessing ocassionally (such as it is with Windows Write), and better software would be nice. The laptop's handy for taking stuff down on before formatting things 'properly' on a more modern desktop. I remember Ami Pro being quite reasonable on a similar spec desktop machine, but my copy went to tape years ago and around half of the old tapes of mine that I found recently are no longer readable :-( Suggestions of alternative software welcome though... cheers Jules ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Jul 7 09:48:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: OT: Realtek; Was Re: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA...) In-Reply-To: <200307062243.h66MhDCw045529@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <88e6f10d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> <3F089393.5060101@mdrconsult.com> <20030706144941.K87023@newshell.lmi.net> <200307062243.h66MhDCw045529@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <3bf6510e4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <200307062243.h66MhDCw045529@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Frank McConnell wrote: > Um, you have read the comments near the head of > /usr/src/sys/pci/if_rl.c, haven't you? Quote: The RealTek 8139 PCI NIC redefines the meaning of 'low end.' This is probably the worst PCI ethernet controller ever made, with the possible exception of the FEAST chip made by SMC. The 8139 supports bus-master DMA, but it has a terrible interface that nullifies any performance gains that bus-master DMA usually offers. Um.... Well, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to set fire to all the Realtek-based NICs in the house... EVIL EVIL EVIL!!! Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ ... Real techs don't lick nine-volt batteries! From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Jul 7 10:00:00 2003 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: OT: Realtek; Was Re: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA...) In-Reply-To: <3bf6510e4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> References: <88e6f10d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> <3F089393.5060101@mdrconsult.com> <20030706144941.K87023@newshell.lmi.net> <200307062243.h66MhDCw045529@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <3bf6510e4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <20030707145607.GM8363@mrbill.net> On Mon, Jul 07, 2003 at 03:41:09PM +0100, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Quote: > The RealTek 8139 PCI NIC redefines the meaning of 'low end.' This is > probably the worst PCI ethernet controller ever made, with the possible > exception of the FEAST chip made by SMC. The 8139 supports bus-master > DMA, but it has a terrible interface that nullifies any performance > gains that bus-master DMA usually offers. > Um.... Well, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to set fire to all the > Realtek-based NICs in the house... EVIL EVIL EVIL!!! I had a Realtek 8139-based PCI 10/100 ethernet card in my wife's PC. This was the only card I'd ever seen where unplugging the ethernet, then plugging it back in, required a *reboot of the operating system* to get TCP/IP connectivity back. I upgraded her system to XP, replaced the Realtek card with an Intel eepro-chipset card, and it works fine now.. Bill -- bill bradford mrbill@mrbill.net austin, texas From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Mon Jul 7 10:24:00 2003 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Older wordprocessing software In-Reply-To: <20030707133224.67983.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000c01c3449b$18ff25a0$4d4d2c0a@atx> Lotus Smartsuite (including AmiPro and 1-2-3) used to be a regular appearance on magazine cover CDs. If noone nearer can find a copy I probably can. Andy > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Jules Richardson > Sent: 07 July 2003 14:32 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Older wordprocessing software > > > Hi all, perhaps pusing the boundaries of off-topicness here a > little, but... > > I'm taking suggestions for wordprocessing software to run on an older 486 > laptop (1994, so almost within the 10 year limit!) that's running > Windows 3.11 > ... > > I still use the machine for a bit of wordprocessing ocassionally > (such as it is > with Windows Write), and better software would be nice. The > laptop's handy for > taking stuff down on before formatting things 'properly' on a more modern > desktop. > > I remember Ami Pro being quite reasonable on a similar spec > desktop machine, > but my copy went to tape years ago and around half of the old > tapes of mine > that I found recently are no longer readable > > Suggestions of alternative software welcome though... > > cheers > > Jules > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! > Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Jul 7 11:04:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Older wordprocessing software References: <000c01c3449b$18ff25a0$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: <000801c344a0$af69aba0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> I wouldnt mind buying an old lotus smartsuite package with box for the win 3.x era if its cheap enough. Same for OS/2 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Holt" To: Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 11:19 AM Subject: RE: Older wordprocessing software > Lotus Smartsuite (including AmiPro and 1-2-3) used to be a regular > appearance on magazine cover CDs. > If noone nearer can find a copy I probably can. > > Andy From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jul 7 11:12:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Older wordprocessing software In-Reply-To: <20030707133224.67983.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030707133224.67983.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >I'm taking suggestions for wordprocessing software to run on an older 486 >laptop (1994, so almost within the 10 year limit!) that's running Windows 3.11 I'd think the choices would be obvious, Word Perfect which has been suggested, might be a decent choice, however, I for one would be inclined to go with MS Word 6.0. Personally I have a strong dislike for Ami Pro, though I'll admit that is due to my using the OS/2 version. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jul 7 11:14:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Older wordprocessing software In-Reply-To: <004001c34491$0ee8f280$023ca8c0@blafleur> References: <004001c34491$0ee8f280$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <20030707090843.C92006@newshell.lmi.net> PC-Write. It's DOS based, but probably the most capable word processing software of that era. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Jules Richardson > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 9:32 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Older wordprocessing software > > > Hi all, perhaps pusing the boundaries of off-topicness here a little, > but... > > I'm taking suggestions for wordprocessing software to run on an older > 486 laptop (1994, so almost within the 10 year limit!) that's running > Windows 3.11 ... > > I still use the machine for a bit of wordprocessing ocassionally (such > as it is with Windows Write), and better software would be nice. The > laptop's handy for taking stuff down on before formatting things > 'properly' on a more modern desktop. > > I remember Ami Pro being quite reasonable on a similar spec desktop > machine, but my copy went to tape years ago and around half of the old > tapes of mine that I found recently are no longer readable :-( > > Suggestions of alternative software welcome though... > > cheers > > Jules > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! > Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ > > -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jul 7 11:30:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Older wordprocessing software In-Reply-To: References: <20030707133224.67983.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030707092202.F92006@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 7 Jul 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >I'm taking suggestions for wordprocessing software to run on an older 486 > >laptop (1994, so almost within the 10 year limit!) that's running Windows 3.11 > > I'd think the choices would be obvious, Word Perfect which has been suggested, might be a decent choice, however, I for one would be inclined to go with > MS Word 6.0. Personally I have a strong dislike for Ami Pro, though I'll admit that is due to my using the OS/2 version. IF you operate in isolation, then consider the later versions of the DOS products, specifically Word-Pervert, Weird, and PC-Write. If you are going to be transferring files with more "modern" machines, then condsider running MICROS~1 OFFICE (Weird, Excel, etc.) The version of Office for Windoze 3.11 usually came on 26 1.4M floppies, but there WAS a CD-ROM available. From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Jul 7 11:44:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: [GreenKeys] Fwd: BBC News E-mail: Babbage printer finally runs (fwd) Message-ID: From the Greenkeys (mechanical teletype) mail list: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 11:20:11 -0400 From: Henry Minsky To: greenkeys-mailman.qth.net Subject: [GreenKeys] Fwd: BBC News E-mail: Babbage printer finally runs >hqm@ai.mit.edu saw this story on BBC News Online and thought you should >see it. > >------------ >Message: > > >------------ > >*Babbage printer finally runs* > > >A computer printer that was originally designed more than 150 years ago >has finally been built. From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Jul 7 11:51:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Older wordprocessing software Message-ID: The last MS Word for DOS (5.5) was available for free download from the MS site, as a Y2K update, but I can't find it there now. It is, however, available from S.U.P.E.R. (the HP LX Palmtop software site) at http://www.palmtop.net/super5.html. I am not aware of any sites where you can download WordPerfect. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Fred Cisin [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 11:26 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Older wordprocessing software On Mon, 7 Jul 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >I'm taking suggestions for wordprocessing software to run on an older 486 > >laptop (1994, so almost within the 10 year limit!) that's running Windows 3.11 > > I'd think the choices would be obvious, Word Perfect which has been suggested, might be a decent choice, however, I for one would be inclined to go with > MS Word 6.0. Personally I have a strong dislike for Ami Pro, though I'll admit that is due to my using the OS/2 version. IF you operate in isolation, then consider the later versions of the DOS products, specifically Word-Pervert, Weird, and PC-Write. If you are going to be transferring files with more "modern" machines, then condsider running MICROS~1 OFFICE (Weird, Excel, etc.) The version of Office for Windoze 3.11 usually came on 26 1.4M floppies, but there WAS a CD-ROM available. From bpope at wordstock.com Mon Jul 7 12:08:01 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Older wordprocessing software In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Jul 7, 03 09:08:02 am Message-ID: <200307071613.MAA00132@wordstock.com> And thusly Zane H. Healy spake: > > >I'm taking suggestions for wordprocessing software to run on an older 486 > >laptop (1994, so almost within the 10 year limit!) that's running Windows 3.11 > > I'd think the choices would be obvious, Word Perfect which has been suggested, might be a decent choice, however, I for one would be inclined to go with > MS Word 6.0. Personally I have a strong dislike for Ami Pro, though I'll admit that is due to my using the OS/2 version. > What about DisplayWrite?? :) *ducking and sprinting for cover* Cheers, Bryan From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Jul 7 12:14:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Older wordprocessing software In-Reply-To: <200307071613.MAA00132@wordstock.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Jul 2003, Bryan Pope wrote: > What about DisplayWrite?? :) Using Robert's spelling, that would be DoesPlayWeird. Which, indeed, it did... Office 4.3 (Word 6) indeed ran OK, most of the time. > *ducking and sprinting for cover* [gets sniper gun out] --f From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jul 7 12:31:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: iUP-201 PC software Message-ID: <200307071726.KAA18641@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Tim If someone else doesn't get you anything, I can write something for you. I think you can easily drive it from the printer port with an adapter cable( I've not totaled the signals needed ). Some of the newer boards require sequencing that I don't have information on but for cards that program things like 1702A's or 2708's, I have info on the sequences needed. Dwight >X-Authentication-Warning: huey.classiccmp.org: mailnull set sender to cctalk-admin using -f >From: "Tim Shaw" >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: iUP-201 PC software > >Hi Robert >I found your request for modules for a iUP201 Universal Programmer. >I have just dusted off a iUP-201 we have had sitting on a shelf for as long >as anyone here can remember. >I cant help you with modules but I would be very grateful if you could help >me with software to drive it from a PC. >I need to use it to read the contents of a 2732 EPROM from an engine volume >generator I hope to update. > >regards > >Tim Shaw T.Shaw@corp.amc.edu.au >Senior Technical Officer (Elect) +61-3-63354805 Ph >Technical Services +61-3-63266493 Fax >Australian Maritime College www.amc.edu.au From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jul 7 12:39:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Eagle computer question? Message-ID: <200307071735.KAA18649@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Fred Not only new but minutes new. He was driving it from Los Gatos Ferrari on University Dr and lost is next to the reservoir, just before his companies building near Lark Ave. Dwight >From: "Fred Cisin" > >On Sat, 5 Jul 2003, George R. Gonzalez wrote: >> Well, I've done it now. I put an old Eagle computer up for auction, >> and I included a bit of history about "Eagle Conmputer", >> but now I wonder if I goofed up big-time on the history. >> As I recall, Many many years ago (around 1982?) I read in InfoWorld that >> Eagle Computer's president met a tragic end, just after the company went >> public, or get a big bunch of financing, or somesuch. Something along the >> lines of his car ran off the road after a celebratory party. If you've > >Yep. >My recollection was that it was a brand new Ferrari. > > >> But now as I search the Web, I can't find any trace of this news item. Did >> I imagine it? Have I got the wrong company? Anybody recall? It's awful >> turning 50! > >I don't know where to find a citation of it. > > >It keeps getting worse after 50. > >-- >Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jul 7 12:50:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Eagle computer question? Message-ID: <200307071745.KAA18656@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Fred N. van Kempen" > >On Sun, 6 Jul 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > >> > lines of his car ran off the road after a celebratory party. If you've >> > driven Hwy 17 at night (between San Jose and Scotts Valley), you know it's a >> > real damp-armpits trip, even when sober. About 300 twisty turny bits, >> > rising and falling, no streetlights, few guardrails, steep dropoffs. >People crossing the f* road (when you get closer to the Sta Cruz end), >and so on. On the way TO sta cruz, beware of drunk-as-a-skunk party >people driving (!) back to their homes (around san jose) ... bah. > >--fred Hi It wasn't on 17. It was on University Ave. I saw the smashed guard rail the next day. I drive 17 every day. You need to treat it with respect. Dwight From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jul 7 12:55:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA...) Message-ID: <200307071751.KAA18662@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > >On Sun, 6 Jul 2003, Fred Cisin wrote: > >> > You don't like my theory, too bad. To quote yourself: "YOU ARE AN ASS." >> >> Aren't we all > >I certainly am. > I resemble that remark. Dwight From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Jul 7 12:58:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Eagle computer question? In-Reply-To: <200307071745.KAA18656@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Jul 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > I drive 17 every day. You need to treat it with respect. Yup. When my parents came over from Holland, I gave them the general south-bay tour, including a trip to Sta Cruz (OKOK, I admit.. I love the garlic fries on the Boulevard ;-) They didnt enjoy the trip down 17, but got really scared on 1 at times, looking out of the car, down the cliffs onto the, ehh, water. Lots of water :) And then, while driving back over the 5, they fell asleep :) Ahwell. Luckily, my Malibu LS only does 120 or so, not much damage one can do with that, unlike with an F55 (or Z3, which I use in Holland.) --fred From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 7 13:23:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Older wordprocessing software In-Reply-To: <20030707133224.67983.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> from "=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=" at Jul 7, 3 02:32:24 pm Message-ID: > Hi all, perhaps pusing the boundaries of off-topicness here a little, but... > > I'm taking suggestions for wordprocessing software to run on an older 486 > laptop (1994, so almost within the 10 year limit!) that's running Windows 3.11 > ... There must be a version of TeX/LaTeX that will run on that machine (on the grounds I managed to run it on an orignal PC/XT for a time...). If you prefer separate editor and formatter programs (I do), you might want to give it a look. TeX takes a bit of time to learn, but IMHO it's well worth it... -tony From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jul 7 13:52:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Seeking info on AT&T Gemini-100 Electronic Blackboard Message-ID: In the late 1970s, AT&T's Bell Labs invented the "electronic blackboard". It was basically a digitizing tablet that allowed one to draw and transmit images. Might anyone know where one exists? How about similar products prior to December 1979? When was the first digitizing tablet invented? This is research I'm conducting for a client, so any useful leads will be compensated. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jul 7 13:54:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Boot original Mac from an external floppy? Message-ID: Is it possible to boot the original Macintosh, or perhaps the Mac 512K or Mac Plus, from the external floppy drive? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From coredump at gifford.co.uk Mon Jul 7 14:04:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Seeking info on AT&T Gemini-100 Electronic Blackboard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F09C40C.50202@gifford.co.uk> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Might anyone know where one exists? How about similar products prior to > December 1979? When was the first digitizing tablet invented? I have in front of me a manual for a Ferranti digitiser. It was about A0 in size (4 feet by 5 feet approx) with a crosshair "puck". Some of the documents refer to the digitiser as a "Bendix", but I don't know why. The dates on the schematics are 1970. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From als at thangorodrim.de Mon Jul 7 14:19:00 2003 From: als at thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA...) In-Reply-To: <88e6f10d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> References: <88e6f10d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <20030707190137.GA4579@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> On Sun, Jul 06, 2003 at 10:11:54PM +0100, Philip Pemberton wrote: > > Then there was the fun I had with a D-Link network card (based on a Realtek > chipset). Here's a tip - grab Realtek's latest driver kit and install it. I > had lost packets, Windows networking errors, you name it. Upgraded the > drivers and the network card suddenly started working properly... The best place for a Realtek network card is in the trashcan. Period. Do not buy this crap. The FreeBSD kernel driver for this card is cursing it explicitly: * The RealTek 8139 PCI NIC redefines the meaning of 'low end.' This is * probably the worst PCI ethernet controller ever made, with the * possible * exception of the FEAST chip made by SMC. The 8139 supports bus-master * DMA, but it has a terrible interface that nullifies any performance * gains that bus-master DMA usually offers. * * It's impossible given this rotten design to really achieve decent * performance at 100Mbps, unless you happen to have a 400Mhz PII or * some equally overmuscled CPU to drive it. And I had one of the buggers running in a server (not my choice, I replaced it later with a 3Com) - and the crap thing randomly decided that no, it didn't want to talk to the network at all. Pulling the ethernet cable and reinserting it usually reset the card enough to get it speaking again. Not exactly acceptable behaviour, so it got junked and replaced with a 3Com 3C905C which never caused us any trouble. Regards, Alex. -- "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison From als at thangorodrim.de Mon Jul 7 14:19:22 2003 From: als at thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Older wordprocessing software In-Reply-To: References: <20030707133224.67983.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030707190752.GB4579@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> On Mon, Jul 07, 2003 at 07:10:40PM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > > Hi all, perhaps pusing the boundaries of off-topicness here a little, but... > > > > I'm taking suggestions for wordprocessing software to run on an older 486 > > laptop (1994, so almost within the 10 year limit!) that's running Windows 3.11 > > ... > > There must be a version of TeX/LaTeX that will run on that machine (on > the grounds I managed to run it on an orignal PC/XT for a time...). If And I recently used LaTeX on my trusty HP200LX (small DOS handheld with an 80186 CPU running at 8 MHz. So, rendering fonts _did_ take close to forever, but running LaTeX over early versions of my diploma thesis worked rather well. > TeX takes a bit of time to learn, but IMHO it's well worth it... It is. Very nice output by default, extremly portable, low on required ressources. Regards, Alex. -- "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison From cb at mythtech.net Mon Jul 7 14:20:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Boot original Mac from an external floppy? Message-ID: >Is it possible to boot the original Macintosh, or perhaps the Mac 512K or >Mac Plus, from the external floppy drive? Yes. I seem to recall doing that on a regular basis with the 128k, and although I don't recall having ever booted from an external floppy with the Mac Plus, I have booted the Plus from the old Hard Disk 20 that used the floppy interface. So I would imagine that an external floppy drive would also be bootable on that machine. In fact, I thought (but could be wrong) that you could boot all Macs that had a floppy port via an external floppy disk. -chris From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Jul 7 14:29:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Early,Nixdorf personal computer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3F09E537.26490.FD47B0F@localhost> >> I have an old NIXDORF PERSONAL COMPUTER which came out in about 1987-88. >> maybe before then. I seem to have misplaced the DOS instructions. I do >> have serial #. Not exactly an early one ... I guess in a few years they try to sell us 486es as 'early' PCs :) >> It has a green display screen. and orange -ish- letters. >> It has a printer attached which heat prints on rolls of fax paper. It is >> in a suitcase style. It is located in my home in Mpls. Mn. I found it at a >> rummage sale in New England, I think it was in N.H. about 5 years ago. If >> their is a Market for it , I want to sell it .I have been told it might >> have GREAT value to the right person. If you can direct me to the right >> places to look,I would greatfully accept your help. I do have Poloride Pix >> I can e-mail if you are intrested. I'd say it's the 05, a rebadges Panasonic machine. > This is a PC clone basically. Normally found in Germany, and throughout > Europe. Not realy common, but not rare either. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Jul 7 14:51:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Alpha (and tru64 5.1) trubs In-Reply-To: <3F09C40C.50202@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: Hi all, I'm running into probs with tru64 5.1 on alpha... anyone here able to help out? please contact me by email ! thanks, Fred From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jul 7 14:53:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Boot original Mac from an external floppy? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Jul 2003, chris wrote: > I seem to recall doing that on a regular basis with the 128k, and > although I don't recall having ever booted from an external floppy with > the Mac Plus, I have booted the Plus from the old Hard Disk 20 that used > the floppy interface. So I would imagine that an external floppy drive > would also be bootable on that machine. Cool. So can I assume that if there is no disk in the internal drive, but an external drive with bootable disk is attached, the Mac will find that and boot from there? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cb at mythtech.net Mon Jul 7 14:56:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Early,Nixdorf personal computer Message-ID: >Not exactly an early one ... I guess in a few years they try >to sell us 486es as 'early' PCs :) Why not, a friend of mine that is employeed as a IT manager told me the other day about an unlabeled computer he wanted to give me that had "antique memory" in it. I was all excited wondering what he might have that could be "antique". It turned out to be a generic Pentium 90 with 72 pin SIMMs!!! -chris From jrice54 at charter.net Mon Jul 7 15:05:01 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Early,Nixdorf personal computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F09D049.8090204@charter.net> To most of the kids in IT today, anything not a t least a P3 is a "classic" and they have no clue what to do with it. These are the kids that are being turned out by the MS certification mills. Last week I had a newly minted MCSE tell me that the "net" command had been discontinued with DOS. Heaven help me if I had presented her with a Unix shell. James chris wrote: >>Not exactly an early one ... I guess in a few years they try >>to sell us 486es as 'early' PCs :) >> >> > >Why not, a friend of mine that is employeed as a IT manager told me the >other day about an unlabeled computer he wanted to give me that had >"antique memory" in it. I was all excited wondering what he might have >that could be "antique". > >It turned out to be a generic Pentium 90 with 72 pin SIMMs!!! > >-chris > From cb at mythtech.net Mon Jul 7 15:06:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Boot original Mac from an external floppy? Message-ID: >Cool. So can I assume that if there is no disk in the internal drive, but >an external drive with bootable disk is attached, the Mac will find that >and boot from there? Correct. IIRC, the boot order is internal floppy, external floppy, internal SCSI, external SCSI. It *might* go internal floppy, internal SCSI, THEN external floppy, external SCSI. I know there are key combos you can hold down to get it to skip the internal SCSI which is why I'm thinking that might come before external floppys. It has been a LONG time since I have had to deal with external floppies (my only normal use external drive was a 400k drive, so the last time I seriously used one and would have had to boot from it was probably 1988 or so) -chris From deano at rattie.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 7 16:03:00 2003 From: deano at rattie.demon.co.uk (Deano Calver) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Seeking info on AT&T Gemini-100 Electronic Blackboard References: <3F09C40C.50202@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <02ef01c344ca$9e1ae0b0$2000a8c0@hal> Summagraphics were founded in 1972 and 1978 released Bit Pad (sometimes considered to be the first commercial digitizer). Computer graphics research had been using 'exotic' input devices for years. A quick check of the CG literature gives a few biblography entrys the should help: [Dertouzos71] () Dertousoz, M.L. "Graphic Data Tablet", United States Patent 3,705,956, assigned to Computek, Incorporated, Cambridge, Massachusetts, December 12, 1972. Early electromagnetic digitizer tablet patent, using Gray Code grid pattern encoding, using phase of induced voltage Fernald73] () Fernald, Olaf H. "Optical graphic data tablet", United States Patent 3,761,877, September 25, 1973. Optical digitizing tablet: stylus shines a light on a transparent glass plate, with a scanner underneath [Hlady75] () Hlady, A.M. "Touch Sensitive Position Encoder using a Layered Sheet", United States Patent 3,916,099, October 28, 1975, assigned to Canadian Patent and Development Limited, Ottowa, Canada. Digitizer using surface acoustic wave [Kuipers75] () Kuipers, Jack United States Patent 3,868,565, February 25, 1975. Polhemus (?) patent on generating rotating fields to digitize position and angular position at same time (3-D tablet plus rotation, theta, phi, rho). (3,868,564 is a motor patent from the USSR) [Pobgee71] () Pobgee, P.J. and Parks, J.R. "Applications of a Low Cost Graphical Input Tablet", IFIP 1971, North-Holland, Amsterdam, pp ??, (TA-4-169) [Sutherland73] () Sutherland, I.E. "Three-dimensional Data Input by Tablet", Proceedings of the IEEE, Vol 62 No 4, April 1974, pp 453-461. [Uncapher71] (*) Uncapher, K.W. " The RAND Video Graphic System - An Approach to a General User-Computer Graphic Communication System ", RAND Corporation Research Report R-753-ARPA, April 1971 Copy on file has best image of RAND tablet and display hardware: shows photographic image and electronic text/ink displayed on same surface The RAND Video Graphics System is mentioned in RFC 113 dated 1971 and describes the use of a table to drive a video graphics display. HTH. Deano ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Honniball" To: Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 8:03 PM Subject: Re: Seeking info on AT&T Gemini-100 Electronic Blackboard > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Might anyone know where one exists? How about similar products prior to > > December 1979? When was the first digitizing tablet invented? > > I have in front of me a manual for a Ferranti digitiser. It was about > A0 in size (4 feet by 5 feet approx) with a crosshair "puck". Some > of the documents refer to the digitiser as a "Bendix", but I don't > know why. > > The dates on the schematics are 1970. > > -- > John Honniball > coredump@gifford.co.uk From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jul 7 16:41:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Teh over priced Mark-8/IBM 5100 is back Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030707171815.444f0b58@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> The seller is the overpriced systems and swiped descriptions and photos is back. Is this the same seller ID or a new one? Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jul 7 16:43:04 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Older wordprocessing software In-Reply-To: <004001c34491$0ee8f280$023ca8c0@blafleur> References: <20030707133224.67983.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030707171407.448fcf2c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> One of the good things about Ami Pro was that it would read file formats that a lot of other word processors wouldn't. (That may or may not matter to you). I used it a few times but I don't recall any other exceptional features. I used MS Word for most of my WP needs. FWIW if you use Word Perfect make sure you get the DOS based version, the windows version sucked big time. Joe At 10:07 AM 7/7/03 -0400, you wrote: >Wordperfect 5.1. It's DOS based, but probably the most capable word >processing software of that era. > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] >On Behalf Of Jules Richardson >Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 9:32 AM >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Older wordprocessing software > > >Hi all, perhaps pusing the boundaries of off-topicness here a little, >but... > >I'm taking suggestions for wordprocessing software to run on an older >486 laptop (1994, so almost within the 10 year limit!) that's running >Windows 3.11 ... > >I still use the machine for a bit of wordprocessing ocassionally (such >as it is with Windows Write), and better software would be nice. The >laptop's handy for taking stuff down on before formatting things >'properly' on a more modern desktop. > >I remember Ami Pro being quite reasonable on a similar spec desktop >machine, but my copy went to tape years ago and around half of the old >tapes of mine that I found recently are no longer readable :-( > >Suggestions of alternative software welcome though... > >cheers > >Jules > >________________________________________________________________________ >Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! >Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jul 7 16:44:39 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Older wordprocessing software In-Reply-To: <200307071613.MAA00132@wordstock.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030707171915.444f6bc8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:13 PM 7/7/03 -0400, you wrote: >And thusly Zane H. Healy spake: >> >> >I'm taking suggestions for wordprocessing software to run on an older 486 >> >laptop (1994, so almost within the 10 year limit!) that's running Windows 3.11 >> >> I'd think the choices would be obvious, Word Perfect which has been suggested, might be a decent choice, however, I for one would be inclined to go with >> MS Word 6.0. Personally I have a strong dislike for Ami Pro, though I'll admit that is due to my using the OS/2 version. >> > >What about DisplayWrite?? :) > >*ducking and sprinting for cover* > >Cheers, > >Bryan > Geez, why not just use Edlin? :-/ Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jul 7 16:46:13 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: iUP-201 PC software In-Reply-To: <200307071726.KAA18641@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030707172455.444fc1f8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hey Dwight, If you write something, I'd like to get a copy too. I finally got a working iuP 201. BTW I've been thinking of making a PC interface for the UPP 103. I've finally got some docs on it and found out that it only uses about six commands; three writes, two reads and one read status. I don't know what they are but it should be too hard to grab the data with a logic analyzer. I'm not planning on doing it anytime soon, right now I'm busy re-building some MDSs. BTRW do you know if there was ever any software written for ISIS to operate the iUP 201? Joe At 10:26 AM 7/7/03 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Tim > If someone else doesn't get you anything, I can write something >for you. I think you can easily drive it from the printer port >with an adapter cable( I've not totaled the signals needed ). > Some of the newer boards require sequencing that I don't have >information on but for cards that program things like 1702A's >or 2708's, I have info on the sequences needed. >Dwight > >>X-Authentication-Warning: huey.classiccmp.org: mailnull set sender to >cctalk-admin using -f >>From: "Tim Shaw" >>To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>Subject: iUP-201 PC software >> >>Hi Robert >>I found your request for modules for a iUP201 Universal Programmer. >>I have just dusted off a iUP-201 we have had sitting on a shelf for as long >>as anyone here can remember. >>I cant help you with modules but I would be very grateful if you could help >>me with software to drive it from a PC. >>I need to use it to read the contents of a 2732 EPROM from an engine volume >>generator I hope to update. >> >>regards >> >>Tim Shaw T.Shaw@corp.amc.edu.au >>Senior Technical Officer (Elect) +61-3-63354805 Ph >>Technical Services +61-3-63266493 Fax >>Australian Maritime College www.amc.edu.au From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jul 7 16:47:48 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Seeking info on AT&T Gemini-100 Electronic Blackboard In-Reply-To: <3F09C40C.50202@gifford.co.uk> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030707173559.444f4d2c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I finished taking one apart that had an embedded HP 1000 computer in it. The thing was HUGE! The tablet was about 6 by 8 FEET. IIRC it was made by Giesler Scientific and it used a high resolution Advin color monitor. I'm not sure but I think it dated from about 1974. Joe At 08:03 PM 7/7/03 +0100, you wrote: >Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >> Might anyone know where one exists? How about similar products prior to >> December 1979? When was the first digitizing tablet invented? > >I have in front of me a manual for a Ferranti digitiser. It was about >A0 in size (4 feet by 5 feet approx) with a crosshair "puck". Some >of the documents refer to the digitiser as a "Bendix", but I don't >know why. > >The dates on the schematics are 1970. > >-- >John Honniball >coredump@gifford.co.uk From spectre at floodgap.com Mon Jul 7 17:02:00 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Boot original Mac from an external floppy? In-Reply-To: from Vintage Computer Festival at "Jul 7, 3 12:44:05 pm" Message-ID: <200307072210.PAA08990@floodgap.com> > > I seem to recall doing that on a regular basis with the 128k, and > > although I don't recall having ever booted from an external floppy with > > the Mac Plus, I have booted the Plus from the old Hard Disk 20 that used > > the floppy interface. So I would imagine that an external floppy drive > > would also be bootable on that machine. > > Cool. So can I assume that if there is no disk in the internal drive, but > an external drive with bootable disk is attached, the Mac will find that > and boot from there? Yes. This will work just fine. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- An apple every eight hours will keep three doctors away. ------------------- From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jul 7 17:09:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: iUP-201 PC software Message-ID: <200307072204.PAA18774@clulw009.amd.com> >From: Joe >Subject: Re: iUP-201 PC software > >Hey Dwight, > > If you write something, I'd like to get a copy too. I finally got a >working iuP 201. BTW I've been thinking of making a PC interface for the >UPP 103. I've finally got some docs on it and found out that it only uses >about six commands; three writes, two reads and one read status. I don't >know what they are but it should be too hard to grab the data with a logic >analyzer. I'm not planning on doing it anytime soon, right now I'm busy >re-building some MDSs. > > BTRW do you know if there was ever any software written for ISIS to >operate the iUP 201? Hi Joe I'm not sure. I wish Intel hadn't trashed the user library. It seems like every combination of thing was done by someone, at one time or the other. I still haven't had time to bring up my MDS800. I've been busy entertaining a visitor from Singapor for the last few weeks. I'm still working on the H89 to PC transfer software. I'm trying to figure out how to stop windoz from trashing serial data when I do direct port accesses to the serial. The code works otherwise. Dwight > > Joe > >At 10:26 AM 7/7/03 -0700, you wrote: >>Hi Tim >> If someone else doesn't get you anything, I can write something >>for you. I think you can easily drive it from the printer port >>with an adapter cable( I've not totaled the signals needed ). >> Some of the newer boards require sequencing that I don't have >>information on but for cards that program things like 1702A's >>or 2708's, I have info on the sequences needed. >>Dwight >> >>>X-Authentication-Warning: huey.classiccmp.org: mailnull set sender to >>cctalk-admin using -f >>>From: "Tim Shaw" >>>To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>>Subject: iUP-201 PC software >>> >>>Hi Robert >>>I found your request for modules for a iUP201 Universal Programmer. >>>I have just dusted off a iUP-201 we have had sitting on a shelf for as long >>>as anyone here can remember. >>>I cant help you with modules but I would be very grateful if you could help >>>me with software to drive it from a PC. >>>I need to use it to read the contents of a 2732 EPROM from an engine volume >>>generator I hope to update. >>> >>>regards >>> >>>Tim Shaw T.Shaw@corp.amc.edu.au >>>Senior Technical Officer (Elect) +61-3-63354805 Ph >>>Technical Services +61-3-63266493 Fax >>>Australian Maritime College www.amc.edu.au From ian_primus at yahoo.com Mon Jul 7 17:34:00 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Boot original Mac from an external floppy? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <92B7BB60-B0CA-11D7-B4E7-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Yup, the Mac will search all available floppy drives for a bootable disk, and as long as the disk and drive are good, it will boot from any attached floppy drive. IIRC, it starts with the internal drives, then the external drives, so if you put a system disk in both drives, it _should_ boot the internal one. It also generally does the same thing with SCSI devices (Plus and up), although IIRC it searches by the ID number, and won't differentiate between internal and external. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Monday, July 7, 2003, at 03:44 PM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Mon, 7 Jul 2003, chris wrote: > >> I seem to recall doing that on a regular basis with the 128k, and >> although I don't recall having ever booted from an external floppy >> with >> the Mac Plus, I have booted the Plus from the old Hard Disk 20 that >> used >> the floppy interface. So I would imagine that an external floppy drive >> would also be bootable on that machine. > > Cool. So can I assume that if there is no disk in the internal drive, > but > an external drive with bootable disk is attached, the Mac will find > that > and boot from there? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * From cb at mythtech.net Mon Jul 7 17:52:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Teh over priced Mark-8/IBM 5100 is back Message-ID: > The seller is the overpriced systems and swiped descriptions and photos >is back. > >Is this the same seller ID or a new one? I'm really curious what exactly he is selling. The listing doesn't say that ANYTHING is really for sale. Although whatever the nothing is, its $50 for shipping, and $5,000 to insure it (wow, it costs more to insure it than to buy it!) -chris From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jul 7 18:13:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Teh over priced Mark-8/IBM 5100 is back Message-ID: <200307072306.QAA18815@clulw009.amd.com> "He's Back!" It looks like the same fellow with a new name. That'd be my guess. Who was it that contacted eBay last time? Maybe he should drop them another note. As a side question, weren't most of the front panels for the Mark-8's home made. In which case you couldn't use someone else's photo. Dwight >From: chris > >> The seller is the overpriced systems and swiped descriptions and photos >>is back. >> >>Is this the same seller ID or a new one? > >I'm really curious what exactly he is selling. The listing doesn't say >that ANYTHING is really for sale. Although whatever the nothing is, its >$50 for shipping, and $5,000 to insure it (wow, it costs more to insure >it than to buy it!) > >-chris > From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Mon Jul 7 18:36:00 2003 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: PDP-11 Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 (Originally Produced by Tim Shoppa) Message-ID: <3F0A0308.3EE1E355@compsys.to> I will make this post just a few more times since hobby users seem to see it on a random basis. In regard to the Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 that Tim Shoppa originally produced: I am in the middle of finishing a third (very small) batch of CDs and could easily add a few additional copies. I will be making all copies of the CD images from: ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/cd-images/ http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/ http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RSX-11/ Since not everyone has both a high speed internet connection and a CD burner, I thought it would be helpful to make them available. If you have both requirements and are using Windows 98 SE / Nero Burning, I can help with the details if you don't know how to burn a CD from an "Image File". I have even been able to produce a label for each CD that is close to the original label from Tim Shoppa, although since they were scanned (THANK YOU FOR THE HELP), they are not perfect. They are available at $ 5 / $ 9 / $ 12 for 1 / 2 / 3 CDs. In addition, I understand that Memorex Black CD-Rs have a longer shelf life and are available at Business Depot. If anyone wants those instead, add $ 1 for each CD that you are requesting. Thus those amounts are $ 6 / $ 11 / $ 15 Please contact me directly for my snail mail address. I picked up some Memorex Black CD-R blanks and started on the copies for those who have already requested that a Black CD-R be used. Please include your snail mailing address!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In general, I will regard any funds you send as a gift so that if anyone really can't afford the CDs, please state why that is so. Outside of the US, probably about $ 2 should be sufficient for extra postage. All amounts are in US dollars. Please ask if you are not in the US. No point in converting twice. In addition, probably most people do not follow the exchange rate between the Canadian / US dollar, but the current rate is MUCH less favourable. If a 4th batch is ever made, the amounts to be sent will need to be changed. I will keep the amounts the same this time, but the $ 12 will become $ US 14 and the $ 15 will become $ US 18 based on the current exchange rate and adjusted at the time if the exchange rate changes again. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Jul 7 19:09:00 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Teh over priced Mark-8/IBM 5100 is back In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030707171815.444f0b58@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030707170343.02686ec0@mail.zipcon.net> same guy, new account At 05:18 PM 7/7/03 +0000, you wrote: > The seller is the overpriced systems and swiped descriptions and photos >is back. > >Is this the same seller ID or a new one? > > Joe From loedman1 at juno.com Mon Jul 7 19:12:00 2003 From: loedman1 at juno.com (loedman1@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA...) Message-ID: <20030707.170417.-1165.6.loedman1@juno.com> Sellam observed, >Most versions of Windows up until XP were buggy as hell and a pain in the >ass to maintain. When I was running Windows 95, I had to reboot a few >times a week. When I switched to Windows 98, a few times a month. Now >I'm using XP, and I still have to reboot once in a while. Definitely an >improvement. But the fact is, most of us have become so jaded with MS >"operating systems" that we instinctively think of them as crap. >Now, the real question is, why do you take attacks against an operating >system personally? -- I too grew tired of the "Blue screen of death" on my horribly overclocked box running Windows 95a but with a wonderful program called Xteq I was able to end it forever, it is now the Red screen of death. Rich From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jul 7 19:40:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:45 2005 Subject: otrona parts? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030707203115.0f679808@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:05 AM 7/3/03 -0600, Robert_Feldma wrote: >I finally remembered to pull out my Attache 8:16 last night. There _is_ a serial number on the outside, under the right front corner, below the "Attache" name (mine is 7840). It's stamped on a small metal plate and glued in a shallow recess, so it could have been lost. > >Bob Hey, You're right. I got mine out today and looked it does have the SN on the outside. It's on the bottom right in the front RH corner. I got the software today and it runs like a champ! Thanks for the help. Joe > >-----Original Message----- >From: Joe [mailto:rigdonj@cfl.rr.com] >Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2003 10:43 AM >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: otrona parts? > > > I've been playing with the Otrana Attache that I found last week. > > > FWIW I took it apart and checked it this morning and I noticed something >funny. The no serial number anywhere on the outside of it but inside >EVERYTHING has the serial number on it. The INSIDE of the case, the >monitor, both disk drives, the power supply, the sheet metal, etc are all >numbered 4616 but there's no number anywhere on the outside. > > Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jul 7 19:41:58 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: iUP-201 PC software In-Reply-To: <200307072204.PAA18774@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030707202120.0f57ec52@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Dwight, Let me know if you need help getting the MDS-800 up and running. I'm getting real good at it. I've five of them up and running now :-) I was wondering what happened to the library. I kind of figured that it had been trashed but didn't know for sure. Too bad. Joe At 03:04 PM 7/7/03 -0700, you wrote: >>From: Joe >>Subject: Re: iUP-201 PC software >> >>Hey Dwight, >> >> If you write something, I'd like to get a copy too. I finally got a >>working iuP 201. BTW I've been thinking of making a PC interface for the >>UPP 103. I've finally got some docs on it and found out that it only uses >>about six commands; three writes, two reads and one read status. I don't >>know what they are but it should be too hard to grab the data with a logic >>analyzer. I'm not planning on doing it anytime soon, right now I'm busy >>re-building some MDSs. >> >> BTRW do you know if there was ever any software written for ISIS to >>operate the iUP 201? > >Hi Joe > I'm not sure. I wish Intel hadn't trashed the user library. >It seems like every combination of thing was done by someone, >at one time or the other. > I still haven't had time to bring up my MDS800. I've been >busy entertaining a visitor from Singapor for the last few >weeks. I'm still working on the H89 to PC transfer software. >I'm trying to figure out how to stop windoz from trashing >serial data when I do direct port accesses to the serial. >The code works otherwise. >Dwight > >> >> Joe >> >>At 10:26 AM 7/7/03 -0700, you wrote: >>>Hi Tim >>> If someone else doesn't get you anything, I can write something >>>for you. I think you can easily drive it from the printer port >>>with an adapter cable( I've not totaled the signals needed ). >>> Some of the newer boards require sequencing that I don't have >>>information on but for cards that program things like 1702A's >>>or 2708's, I have info on the sequences needed. >>>Dwight >>> >>>>X-Authentication-Warning: huey.classiccmp.org: mailnull set sender to >>>cctalk-admin using -f >>>>From: "Tim Shaw" >>>>To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>>>Subject: iUP-201 PC software >>>> >>>>Hi Robert >>>>I found your request for modules for a iUP201 Universal Programmer. >>>>I have just dusted off a iUP-201 we have had sitting on a shelf for as long >>>>as anyone here can remember. >>>>I cant help you with modules but I would be very grateful if you could help >>>>me with software to drive it from a PC. >>>>I need to use it to read the contents of a 2732 EPROM from an engine volume >>>>generator I hope to update. >>>> >>>>regards >>>> >>>>Tim Shaw T.Shaw@corp.amc.edu.au >>>>Senior Technical Officer (Elect) +61-3-63354805 Ph >>>>Technical Services +61-3-63266493 Fax >>>>Australian Maritime College www.amc.edu.au From root at parse.com Mon Jul 7 19:44:00 2003 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: M220B (PDP-8/I) schematics available Message-ID: <200307071536.LAA00612@parse.com> For those of you who missed the announcement in alt.sys.pdp8, I've now almost completed the M220 version B schematic. It's available at: http://www.parse.com/~pdp8/pdp8i/m220b.html The trials and tribulations of the PDP-8/I restoration can be found at: http://www.parse.com/~pdp8/pdp8i/restore.html Plenty-o-dead 7474's in that one :-) Cheers, -RK -- Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! From pwh at poggs.co.uk Mon Jul 7 19:45:37 2003 From: pwh at poggs.co.uk (Peter Hicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: OS uptimes In-Reply-To: <009101c34410$52ab0110$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Jul 2003, Jay West wrote: > Anyways... that got me thinking so I had to check. I popped into one of our > FreeBSD web servers. It hosts a fair number of high volume sites > (stevewinwood.com, kellerwilliams.net, and some stringcheeseincident support > sites)... the current uptime is.... 5:43PM up 353 days I can beat that - I've had a Linux box up for about fourteen months, until a power failure in the datacentre (yes, this is the datacenter that boasts VESDA, loads of kilowatts of backup generators and ultra-powerful aircon) reset it back to zero. Mind you, I've had a NetWare 3.11 server (ob-classic computing!) up for well over a year, probably about 18 months. However, this beats all of them: Uptime is 1048 days, 12 hours, 12 minutes cat6500-1> This is a Catalyst 6506 switch at one of my sites which hasn't been down since its installation back in August 2000! Its the only piece of kit that will, touch wood, have been in service without any outages for the whole of its three-year lifecycle. Peter. From hansp at citem.org Mon Jul 7 19:47:12 2003 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: Eagle computer question? In-Reply-To: <20030706170352.F87113@newshell.lmi.net> References: <000a01c342ef$1bf42d30$11a8a8c0@grgcptr> <3F083DF9.9040504@citem.org> <20030706170352.F87113@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <3F08FB30.8050602@citem.org> Fred Cisin wrote: > On Sun, 6 Jul 2003, Hans Pufal wrote: >>It was the day they went public, he drove his brand new ferrari into a >>tree. I lived right down the road from there at the time and passed that >>tree many, many times. > But you NEVER drove a Ferrari into it! There agains I was never CEO of an IPO either ;-) Intersting sideline: Eagle lived in the same quite small business park that was the birthplace of Amiga. I interveiwed there just before they sold out to Commodore. In the same park was a company who sold PCB layout software; PCADS is the name that comes to mind. -- hbp From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jul 7 19:48:47 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Vintage Computer Festival > Sent: 06 July 2003 16:54 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? > > > Somewhere, possibly on trash80.org, is a writeup on why this > machine came > ^^^^^^^^^^^ > > No such URL. I must've dreamt that one.....I'm sure there's a website with trash80 in the URL but hey ho. Here's a real page with a writeup and a poor picture: http://www.kjsl.com/trs80/model3info.html > How common is equipment that runs on 240V besides large appliances sold in > the US? Not very much. Weird. When I get a spare hour or so I'll have to do some digging; real 240v PSU, US moulded mains plug on the end of the cable. If it was a sensing SMPSU I'd have expected it to say 110/240V. -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From mhstein at canada.com Mon Jul 7 19:50:23 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: CBM PET Software (&H/W) Message-ID: <01C34485.C7C017E0@mse-d03> I've got a few boxes of PET S/W somewhere (diskettes, ROMS and tapes), but whether after 25 years or so of sitting in a damp basement & wet garage the hardware still works (or if I can remember how) to copy it is another question; what sort of S/W are you looking for? Assuming the hardware works, the diskettes shouldn't be a problem, nor the EPROMS, and I seem to recall making a "null-cassette" adapter to copy tapes; anybody remember that? Hmmm, archiving those on a CD, or e-mailing them, should be an interesting project... In fact, I also recall making a cassette port to cassette port cable to "network" two PETs; anybody ever try that? And of course the famous switch to switch an 8032 into 4032 mode for compatibility with all the 40 col stuff out there at the time. Well, my interest being revived, I just went out to the garage and found a 2001 covered in racoon s**t (fortunately with a plastic cover on it), with an MTU graphics board installed. That looks dead, but the 8032 in the basement with mushrooms growing on the floor fired up after all these years with that vaguely familiar start-up tinkle (no, I didn't bother to reform the PS caps :); lifted the cover and there's even a DEC modem inside, but don't ask me if or how THAT worked. Now to find the disk drives (and then there's the pile of C64s, VIC20s and monitors up at the cottage, some even brand new in the box from the days when I planned to replace some AIM65s with VIC20s in a quite successful industrial controller application, believe it or not, but by the time I finally got a round tuit, PC's had arrived). Ah, memories, however vague and distant... m --------------------Original Message------------------ From: "Chandra Bajpai" To: Subject: RE: Fwd: RE: 8250 LP Double disk drive for the commodore 64 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 07:38:56 -0400 Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Can 8050 diskettes be read on the 8250 (can the 8250 sense single sided diskettes)? Which PET drive is compatible with 1571? Ethan...I've accumulated a lot of PET stuff, including a dozen 8032's, a dead SuperPET, some drives (including an 8250) and 3-8K PETs. Love to hear what you have? I wish I had some software! -Chandra From Mark.Jackson at artsfest.org.uk Mon Jul 7 19:51:59 2003 From: Mark.Jackson at artsfest.org.uk (Mark Jackson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: Cray X-MP ENgraved I/O SS Access Door For Sale Message-ID: <5FD7B6706CC4D54884F01A0006651A8789C76D@baitmain.birminghamarts.net> Hi There, I have a Cray Research I/O Sub System metal access door from a Cray X-MP that I reluctantly wish to sell. If you click on the link below you will see a picture of the machine and also in the distance, you will see the silver access door. If you make the pic bigger you will see it properly. It is engraved 'Cray Research Inc - I/O Subsystem'. I also have all the fittings for the door, ie the hinges and the magnetic contact strip. I don't want to sell it but unfortunately I need the cash. Would you be interested? email me at mrjackson99_uk@yahoo.co.uk http://www.cbi.umn.edu/exhibits/cray/crayxmp.html Thanks Mark From george at rachors.com Mon Jul 7 19:53:35 2003 From: george at rachors.com (George Leo Rachor Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: iUP-201 PC software In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030707172455.444fc1f8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: There was a program for both ISIS and DOS called "IPPS". Now to find it... George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Mon, 7 Jul 2003, Joe wrote: > Hey Dwight, > > If you write something, I'd like to get a copy too. I finally got a > working iuP 201. BTW I've been thinking of making a PC interface for the > UPP 103. I've finally got some docs on it and found out that it only uses > about six commands; three writes, two reads and one read status. I don't > know what they are but it should be too hard to grab the data with a logic > analyzer. I'm not planning on doing it anytime soon, right now I'm busy > re-building some MDSs. > > BTRW do you know if there was ever any software written for ISIS to > operate the iUP 201? > > Joe > > At 10:26 AM 7/7/03 -0700, you wrote: > >Hi Tim > > If someone else doesn't get you anything, I can write something > >for you. I think you can easily drive it from the printer port > >with an adapter cable( I've not totaled the signals needed ). > > Some of the newer boards require sequencing that I don't have > >information on but for cards that program things like 1702A's > >or 2708's, I have info on the sequences needed. > >Dwight > > > >>X-Authentication-Warning: huey.classiccmp.org: mailnull set sender to > >cctalk-admin using -f > >>From: "Tim Shaw" > >>To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >>Subject: iUP-201 PC software > >> > >>Hi Robert > >>I found your request for modules for a iUP201 Universal Programmer. > >>I have just dusted off a iUP-201 we have had sitting on a shelf for as long > >>as anyone here can remember. > >>I cant help you with modules but I would be very grateful if you could help > >>me with software to drive it from a PC. > >>I need to use it to read the contents of a 2732 EPROM from an engine volume > >>generator I hope to update. > >> > >>regards > >> > >>Tim Shaw T.Shaw@corp.amc.edu.au > >>Senior Technical Officer (Elect) +61-3-63354805 Ph > >>Technical Services +61-3-63266493 Fax > >>Australian Maritime College www.amc.edu.au From dmabry at mich.com Mon Jul 7 20:06:39 2003 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: iUP-201 PC software In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030707172455.444fc1f8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030707172455.444fc1f8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3F0A15C1.6000005@mich.com> There was an ISIS-based program from Intel for the iUP 201. In fact, that's what Intel supported it first under. The MS-DOS version came much later. The program is called IPPS. I can e-mail the ISIS version to whoever wants it. I have to look around for the DOS version, but I should have it, too. Joe wrote: > Hey Dwight, > > If you write something, I'd like to get a copy too. I finally got a > working iuP 201. BTW I've been thinking of making a PC interface for the > UPP 103. I've finally got some docs on it and found out that it only uses > about six commands; three writes, two reads and one read status. I don't > know what they are but it should be too hard to grab the data with a logic > analyzer. I'm not planning on doing it anytime soon, right now I'm busy > re-building some MDSs. > > BTRW do you know if there was ever any software written for ISIS to > operate the iUP 201? > > Joe > -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Jul 7 20:28:01 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: OS uptimes In-Reply-To: References: <009101c34410$52ab0110$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030707180553.02afcec0@mail.zipcon.net> Had a sparc IPC with almost 4 years of uptime, until the mainboard died :( From David.Kane at aph.gov.au Mon Jul 7 21:18:26 2003 From: David.Kane at aph.gov.au (Kane, David (DPRS)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: Teh over priced Mark-8/IBM 5100 is back Message-ID: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2622216@email1.parl.net> I think we should give this guy his very own wet dream. I will bid one MILLION dollars for it (left small finger in mouth), and someone else can bid a few buck less. That should be a good laugh for him. David -----Original Message----- From: Dwight K. Elvey [mailto:dwightk.elvey@amd.com] Sent: Tuesday, 8 July 2003 9:06 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Teh over priced Mark-8/IBM 5100 is back "He's Back!" It looks like the same fellow with a new name. That'd be my guess. Who was it that contacted eBay last time? Maybe he should drop them another note. As a side question, weren't most of the front panels for the Mark-8's home made. In which case you couldn't use someone else's photo. Dwight >From: chris > >> The seller is the overpriced systems and swiped descriptions and photos >>is back. >> >>Is this the same seller ID or a new one? > >I'm really curious what exactly he is selling. The listing doesn't say >that ANYTHING is really for sale. Although whatever the nothing is, its >$50 for shipping, and $5,000 to insure it (wow, it costs more to insure >it than to buy it!) > >-chris > From thompson at new.rr.com Mon Jul 7 22:03:00 2003 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: OT OS uptimes In-Reply-To: <009101c34410$52ab0110$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: A lightly loaded Redhat 7.1 Linux box which serves web pages to about four PC's 24x7 across a WAN. The uptime actually tripped over due to the IRQ 0 counter overflowing back to zero so it shows an uptime of 5 days currently. But the real uptime is shown in the idle time. Ironically, this machine which is sitting under a reception desk with a small UPS has better uptime than any in our data center because a rather large capacitor in the main data center UPS blew spectacularly one day a year or so ago and someone needlessly hit the big red button. user : 1d 2:22:06.67 20.2% page in :121287652 nice : 3d 23:59:02.20 73.6% page out:147457401 system: 6d 2:30:33.81 112.4% swap in : 249583 idle : 491d 7:58:47.19 9044.7% swap out: 77284 uptime: 5d 10:22:36.90 context :672899660 irq 0: 46935691 timer irq 6: 342 irq 1: 2654411 keyboard irq 8: 2 rtc irq 2: 0 cascade [4] irq 11:1144326397 eth0 irq 3: 3 irq 12: 6 PS/2 Mouse irq 4: 360577 serial irq 14: 46172874 ide0 -- From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jul 7 22:26:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: Replacement CFX-200 Buttons In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030707201957.Q97940@newshell.lmi.net> On Sun, 29 Jun 2003, Robbie Sanders wrote: > The best way to replace the buttons on a CFX-200 is to buy a used CD-401. There is a CFX-20 on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=2644780188 The 40 and 400 are interchangeable (and they have hex arithmetic) Are the 20 and 200 interchangeable? From dittman at dittman.net Mon Jul 7 22:44:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: Looking for Digital Channel Server II (DESNB) Message-ID: <20030708033627.9FA5D7F84@dittman.net> Does anyone have an old Digital Channel Server II (DESNB) sitting around unused? If so, please let me know. I have someone that needs one and is willing to pay if it works. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Jul 7 23:52:01 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: Kinda OT: DEC 3000 Model 300 AXP Memory Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030708003245.00ab03e0@mail.30below.com> I don't think this machine is *quite* 10 years old yet, but it's pretty close -- and it's 'different' enough that hopefully I won't get flamed... I have a DEC 3000 Model 300 AXP which is currently sitting idle -- it has Tru64 Unix 5.0 on it currently, and 64Meg of RAM. I was thinking of putting Alpha VMS 7.1 instead, for to start learning VMS again (someday... :-O ) and I recall saying that Alpha VMS is much happier in more than 64M Ram, so I was thinking of upgrading it. I do know that it uses 'standard' 72-pin Parity FPM Memory - but what I don't know is: how finicky is the machine? Will just any Parity memory work, or is it limited to certain manufacturers? I have a supplier that has used 32M Parity 72-pin FPM memory for $6/stick -- a decent price comparatively - I've seen it at $30+ per stick, which would make a memory upgrade cost more than the machine itself... I have no idea what they have for manufacturers of the memory - these guys prolly don't, either. It's a reputable company (I've ordered from them before) but they don't get too deep with the specifics. (WRT another OT thread: They have 3Com 905C-TX NICS for $10 each...) Should I take the chance and order the memory, or would it be foolhardy to do so? Thanks, Roger "Merch" Merchberger From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jul 8 00:06:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: Kinda OT: DEC 3000 Model 300 AXP Memory In-Reply-To: from "Roger Merchberger" at Jul 08, 2003 12:42:06 AM Message-ID: <200307080502.h68527Ma028747@shell1.aracnet.com> > I don't think this machine is *quite* 10 years old yet, but it's pretty > close -- and it's 'different' enough that hopefully I won't get flamed... I'm not sure, but I think it's just over 10 years old, if not, as you say it's pretty close. > I have a DEC 3000 Model 300 AXP which is currently sitting idle -- it has > Tru64 Unix 5.0 on it currently, and 64Meg of RAM. I was thinking of putting > Alpha VMS 7.1 instead, for to start learning VMS again (someday... :-O ) > and I recall saying that Alpha VMS is much happier in more than 64M Ram, so > I was thinking of upgrading it. You can run it in 64MB, but it isn't fun. > I do know that it uses 'standard' 72-pin Parity FPM Memory - but what I > don't know is: how finicky is the machine? Will just any Parity memory > work, or is it limited to certain manufacturers? I have a supplier that has > used 32M Parity 72-pin FPM memory for $6/stick -- a decent price > comparatively - I've seen it at $30+ per stick, which would make a memory > upgrade cost more than the machine itself... You're sure that it uses 72-pin? I'm honestly not sure, I know that the 3000/300LX does, but the 3000/x00 (can't remember the exact model) that a friend has sitting in my Living room till she finds a drive for it, uses proprietary RAM. Anyway, I've used various 72-pin FPM SIMMs in my Alpha's and haven't had any problems that I can think of. Which isn't to say that you won't have problems. The other question is, can it handle 32MB SIMMs, and how many do you have to add at once? BTW, 128MB is probably more than enough to just play. > Should I take the chance and order the memory, or would it be foolhardy to > do so? Do you deal with anyone that scraps PC's? I'm using some RAM out of Pentium Pro's in a couple of my Alpha's. Zane From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 8 00:30:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: M220B (PDP-8/I) schematics available In-Reply-To: <200307071536.LAA00612@parse.com> Message-ID: <20030708052639.27629.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Robert Krten wrote: > For those of you who missed the announcement in alt.sys.pdp8, > I've now almost completed the M220 version B schematic. It's > available at: > > http://www.parse.com/~pdp8/pdp8i/m220b.html Cool! Thanks! I have a few M220 cards that will eventually benefit from your efforts (I borrowed them from a parts machine to keep the main machines running). > The trials and tribulations of the PDP-8/I restoration can be > found at: > > http://www.parse.com/~pdp8/pdp8i/restore.html > > Plenty-o-dead 7474's in that one :-) That's been my experience, too. I have replaced as many as 8 7474s at a go to get an -8/L back on its feet. I don't recall replacing any other chip, as a matter of fact. -ethan From jpdavis at gorge.net Tue Jul 8 01:19:00 2003 From: jpdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: M220B (PDP-8/I) schematics available In-Reply-To: <20030708052639.27629.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030708052639.27629.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3F0A6136.4000807@gorge.net> Ethan Dicks wrote: >--- Robert Krten wrote: > > >>For those of you who missed the announcement in alt.sys.pdp8, >>I've now almost completed the M220 version B schematic. It's >>available at: >> >>http://www.parse.com/~pdp8/pdp8i/m220b.html >> >> > >Cool! Thanks! I have a few M220 cards that will eventually benefit >from your efforts (I borrowed them from a parts machine to keep the >main machines running). > > > >>The trials and tribulations of the PDP-8/I restoration can be >>found at: >> >>http://www.parse.com/~pdp8/pdp8i/restore.html >> >>Plenty-o-dead 7474's in that one :-) >> >> > >That's been my experience, too. I have replaced as many as 8 7474s >at a go to get an -8/L back on its feet. I don't recall replacing >any other chip, as a matter of fact. > >-ethan > > > 7474's Dead d flops? whats the story on that? Jim From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jul 8 02:25:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: Kinda OT: DEC 3000 Model 300 AXP Memory In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030708003245.00ab03e0@mail.30below.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030708003245.00ab03e0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3F0A70E9.1060401@mdrconsult.com> Roger Merchberger wrote: > I do know that it uses 'standard' 72-pin Parity FPM Memory - but what I > don't know is: how finicky is the machine? Will just any Parity memory > work, or is it limited to certain manufacturers? I have a supplier that > has used 32M Parity 72-pin FPM memory for $6/stick -- a decent price > comparatively - I've seen it at $30+ per stick, which would make a > memory upgrade cost more than the machine itself... There are a bunch of different 3000/300 models. The 3000/300X and the 3000/300 both take commodity 36-bit parity SIMMs. My 3k/300X is running RAM from a Mac, from a DEC "Jensen", and from Goodwill. The best thumbnail reference directory I've found are on the DEC/Linux pages: http://www.phys.ufl.edu/~prescott/linux/alpha/dec3000-sysinfo.html Doc From nedry at mail.bedlambells.com Tue Jul 8 03:02:00 2003 From: nedry at mail.bedlambells.com (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: OT: Realtek; Was Re: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA...) In-Reply-To: <3bf6510e4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> References: <200307062243.h66MhDCw045529@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <88e6f10d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> <3F089393.5060101@mdrconsult.com> <20030706144941.K87023@newshell.lmi.net> <200307062243.h66MhDCw045529@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030708085655.021c3f20@mail.bedlambells.com> Aww. They aren't the worst cheapo card I've been forced to buy in my career, as in they actually work, if slowly. What do you want for ?9 Take Care, mark At 15:41 07/07/2003 +0100, you wrote: >In message <200307062243.h66MhDCw045529@daemonweed.reanimators.org> > Frank McConnell wrote: > > > Um, you have read the comments near the head of > > /usr/src/sys/pci/if_rl.c, haven't you? >Quote: > The RealTek 8139 PCI NIC redefines the meaning of 'low end.' This is > probably the worst PCI ethernet controller ever made, with the possible > exception of the FEAST chip made by SMC. The 8139 supports bus-master > DMA, but it has a terrible interface that nullifies any performance > gains that bus-master DMA usually offers. > >Um.... Well, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to set fire to all the >Realtek-based NICs in the house... EVIL EVIL EVIL!!! > >Later. >-- >Phil. >philpem@dsl.pipex.com >http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ >... Real techs don't lick nine-volt batteries! [---------] "Homer, we don't have to have sex." "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." "Deserts aren't always right Homer." "But they're so delicious." Website: retrobbs.org BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org [---------] From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Jul 8 04:27:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: Kinda OT: DEC 3000 Model 300 AXP Memory In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030708003245.00ab03e0@mail.30below.com>; from zmerch@30below.com on Tue, Jul 08, 2003 at 06:42:06 CEST References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030708003245.00ab03e0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <20030708111403.G311730@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.07.08 06:42 Roger Merchberger wrote: > I do know that it uses 'standard' 72-pin Parity FPM Memory - but > what I don't know is: how finicky is the machine? Will just any > Parity memory work, or is it limited to certain manufacturers? It should accept any FPM parity (36 bit) SIMMs. One bank consists of two SIMMs. In fact, it uses long word parity, i.e 33 bit SIMMs like the AS500. I think it can use only 8 MB and 32 MB SIMMs. > Should I take the chance and order the memory, or would it be > foolhardy to do so? Well. By two SIMMs, look if they work and by additional 6 if they do. I have a 300X with 256 MB RAM, thats nice. In an other mail Zane isn't sure if it uses 72 pin SIMMs or proprietary RAM. All models of DEC 3000-300 use 72 pin SIMMs. The DEC 3000-[456789]00 models use very special 100 pin SIMMs and they need 8 per bank. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Jul 8 04:29:07 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: Older wordprocessing software In-Reply-To: <20030707133224.67983.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com>; from julesrichardsonuk@yahoo.co.uk on Mon, Jul 07, 2003 at 15:32:24 CEST References: <20030707133224.67983.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030708104132.A311730@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.07.07 15:32 Jules Richardson wrote: > I'm taking suggestions for wordprocessing software to run on an older > 486 laptop (1994, so almost within the 10 year limit!) that's running > Windows 3.11 1. Replace Windows with an operating system. E.g. Linux or NetBSD. (Especially the later runs very well on older hardware with non-GHz CPUs and only a few MB RAM.) You may skip this step if you are not willing to wrap your head around Unix. 2. LaTeX. Period. I used several WYSIWYG text processing software at that time (WordPerfect, AmiPro, StarWriter, ...) and they all sucked. Then I got into Unix and LaTeX and stayed there since then. LaTeX is not that easy to learn, but you get _very_ good results for your work. I think (La)TeX is the most bug free software on this planet. IIRC the LaTeX distribution for WinDOS and OS/2 of that time was called EMTEX. If you are able to switch to Linux or NetBSD you can use the most recent teTeX. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From elf at ucsd.edu Tue Jul 8 04:31:00 2003 From: elf at ucsd.edu (Eric F.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: Older wordprocessing software In-Reply-To: <20030708053001.47034.10952.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030708022601.00859620@popmail.ucsd.edu> On Mon, Jul 7, 08:36:00, 2003, Jules Richardson wrote: >I remember Ami Pro being quite reasonable on a similar spec desktop machine, >but my copy went to tape years ago and around half of the old tapes of mine >that I found recently are no longer readable :-( > >Suggestions of alternative software welcome though... XyWrite comes to mind: low resource requirements, yet oodles of formatting options. It takes a bit of time and practice to build up some speedy chops, so it may not be the panacea you're looking for. I do know, however, that XyWrite's format can be successfully converted into (many of) today's common word processing formats. Regards, Eric From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jul 8 06:11:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: iUP-201 PC software In-Reply-To: <3F0A15C1.6000005@mich.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030707172455.444fc1f8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030707172455.444fc1f8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030708070655.3cc77e96@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I think I found an ISIS version of iPPS last night but I'd like to get he MS-DOS version if you have it. Do you have the pinout for the cable? Joe At 08:52 PM 7/7/03 -0400, you wrote: >There was an ISIS-based program from Intel for the iUP 201. In fact, >that's what Intel supported it first under. The MS-DOS version came >much later. The program is called IPPS. I can e-mail the ISIS version >to whoever wants it. I have to look around for the DOS version, but I >should have it, too. > >Joe wrote: > >> Hey Dwight, >> >> If you write something, I'd like to get a copy too. I finally got a >> working iuP 201. BTW I've been thinking of making a PC interface for the >> UPP 103. I've finally got some docs on it and found out that it only uses >> about six commands; three writes, two reads and one read status. I don't >> know what they are but it should be too hard to grab the data with a logic >> analyzer. I'm not planning on doing it anytime soon, right now I'm busy >> re-building some MDSs. >> >> BTRW do you know if there was ever any software written for ISIS to >> operate the iUP 201? >> >> Joe >> > >-- >Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com >Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Tue Jul 8 06:51:00 2003 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: TI 990 Page and simulator Message-ID: <3F0AAF35.1000405@dragonsweb.org> Dunno if everyone has seen this, but there is a fairly new 990 web page up by David PItts, who has written a simulator and cross-development tools for Linux and Windows. It might be interesting to take something like this, or M.E.S.S. or one of the other simulators, and reimplement the DX10 4A dev tools. Maybe somebody might even still have them around somewhere. Hmmm. http://www.cozx.com/~dpitts/ti990.html later, jbdigriz From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Tue Jul 8 07:25:00 2003 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: Older wordprocessing software In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20030708022601.00859620@popmail.ucsd.edu> References: <20030708053001.47034.10952.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030708082014.02233a40@pop-server> At 02:26 AM 7/8/2003 -0700, you wrote: >XyWrite comes to mind: low resource requirements, yet oodles of formatting >options. What ever happened to XyWrite, was it acquired by another company? From palazzol at comcast.net Tue Jul 8 07:49:01 2003 From: palazzol at comcast.net (Frank Palazzolo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: Commodore CBM/PET in Terminator 3 In-Reply-To: <20030707170001.40778.64629.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <001901c3454e$d6217b70$2000100a@palazzolo> Anyone else spot that one near the end of the movie? It was one of the 80-column models. Not sure what any of the other "30-year old" computers were. -Frank From nedry at mail.bedlambells.com Tue Jul 8 08:07:00 2003 From: nedry at mail.bedlambells.com (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: Commodore CBM/PET in Terminator 3 In-Reply-To: <001901c3454e$d6217b70$2000100a@palazzolo> References: <20030707170001.40778.64629.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030708140243.021c8ef8@mail.bedlambells.com> I haven't seen it yet, but Captain Kirk owns one! Check out Star Trek II... in his apartment... At 08:45 08/07/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Anyone else spot that one near the end of the movie? It was one of the >80-column models. >Not sure what any of the other "30-year old" computers were. > >-Frank [---------] "Homer, we don't have to have sex." "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." "Deserts aren't always right Homer." "But they're so delicious." Website: retrobbs.org BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org [---------] From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Jul 8 08:14:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: Older wordprocessing software In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030707171915.444f6bc8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Jul 7, 03 05:19:15 pm Message-ID: <200307081308.JAA18300@wordstock.com> And thusly Joe spake: > > >What about DisplayWrite?? :) > > > >*ducking and sprinting for cover* > > > >Cheers, > > > >Bryan > > > > Geez, why not just use Edlin? :-/ > > Joe Hey I forgot about that wonderful creation! But then there is also: C:>copy < document.txt (I think it goes this way...) Cheers, Bryan From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Tue Jul 8 08:26:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: Older wordprocessing software Message-ID: C>Copy con foo.txt Foo bar baz Testing^Z C> -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Pope [mailto:bpope@wordstock.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:08 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Older wordprocessing software And thusly Joe spake: > > >What about DisplayWrite?? :) > > > >*ducking and sprinting for cover* > > > >Cheers, > > > >Bryan > > > > Geez, why not just use Edlin? :-/ > > Joe Hey I forgot about that wonderful creation! But then there is also: C:>copy < document.txt (I think it goes this way...) Cheers, Bryan From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Tue Jul 8 09:36:01 2003 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: Older wordprocessing software In-Reply-To: <200307081308.JAA18300@wordstock.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030707171915.444f6bc8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030708103133.022787f0@pop-server> At 09:08 AM 7/8/2003 -0400, you wrote: > > >What about DisplayWrite?? :) I used DWA (Display Write Assistant) for years and it was an outstanding piece of software From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Jul 8 09:42:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: Older wordprocessing software References: <3.0.6.16.20030707171915.444f6bc8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <5.2.0.9.2.20030708103133.022787f0@pop-server> Message-ID: <006f01c3455e$95255500$033310ac@kwcorp.com> When I do have the need for word processing on my vintage boxes, I use SATURN on RT-11. Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Ehrich To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 9:32 AM Subject: Re: Older wordprocessing software At 09:08 AM 7/8/2003 -0400, you wrote: > > >What about DisplayWrite?? :) I used DWA (Display Write Assistant) for years and it was an outstanding piece of software From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 8 10:03:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: M220B (PDP-8/I) schematics available In-Reply-To: <3F0A6136.4000807@gorge.net> Message-ID: <20030708145917.40479.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jim Davis wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > >That's been my experience, too. I have replaced as many as 8 7474s > >at a go to get an -8/L back on its feet. I don't recall replacing > >any other chip, as a matter of fact. > > > >-ethan > > > 7474's Dead d flops? whats the story on that? > Jim Dunno. I can say categorically that they were failed chips. They did not pass muster in a handheld TTL tester, and when replaced, the PDP-8/L worked. There was a mention on the list of a batch of 7440s that failed in another M-series machine (might or might not have been an -8/L) with the same date code. Not sure why 7474s from the mid-to-late 1960s would be more fragile than, say, 7400s. Perhaps the flipping and the flopping wears them out faster than anding and oring? :-) -ethan From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Jul 8 10:29:00 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: OT: Realtek; Was Re: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA...) In-Reply-To: Mark Firestone's message of "Tue, 08 Jul 2003 08:57:38 +0100" References: <200307062243.h66MhDCw045529@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <88e6f10d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> <3F089393.5060101@mdrconsult.com> <20030706144941.K87023@newshell.lmi.net> <200307062243.h66MhDCw045529@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <5.2.0.9.0.20030708085655.021c3f20@mail.bedlambells.com> Message-ID: <200307081522.h68FM8YN094136@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Mark Firestone wrote: > Aww. They aren't the worst cheapo card I've been forced to buy in my > career, as in they actually work, if slowly. > > What do you want for ?9 I just get something of a chuckle out of people who figure all Ethernet cards are alike. Perhaps they have forgotten the lessons of the 3Com 3C50[01]. -Frank McConnell From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Jul 8 10:46:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: OT: Realtek; Was Re: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA...) In-Reply-To: <200307081522.h68FM8YN094136@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: On 8 Jul 2003, Frank McConnell wrote: > I just get something of a chuckle out of people who figure all > Ethernet cards are alike. Perhaps they have forgotten the lessons of > the 3Com 3C50[01]. Oooo! the 501. Baaaaaad memories. Sometimes, weather and other conditions permitting, it would actually not choke on inbound packets. :) --f From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jul 8 11:28:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: Older wordprocessing software In-Reply-To: <200307081308.JAA18300@wordstock.com> References: <200307081308.JAA18300@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <20030708092216.P1463@newshell.lmi.net> On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Bryan Pope wrote: > C:>copy < document.txt > (I think it goes this way...) copy con: document.txt The colon is optional on most versions, but helps as a reminder that it is a device, and avoids problems if one manages to creat a file named CON. From Joel.E.Bradley at syntegra.com Tue Jul 8 12:55:00 2003 From: Joel.E.Bradley at syntegra.com (Bradley, Joel E -Syntegra US) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: Items available Message-ID: <41C19CA3B7CBD411B59200508B6CBBFF046ABC46@AH-Exchange-01.arh.cdc.com> I have the following items available. Please e-mail me directly at joel.bradley@comcast.net if interested: Sony PIC-1000 Magic Link with software (PDA circa 1994) Control Data Corporation Cyber 960 Framed and Matted photograph (approx 24" x 20") Control Data Corporation Cyber 960 Matted photograph, No Frame (approx 24" x 20") Control Data Corporation 3 - Ring Binder (many available) Control Data Corporation White Coffee Mugs (individual or set available) Control Data Corporation Legal Pad portfolio, brown leather-like material. NICE! Microsoft Excel 2.2 for Macintosh - MINT IN BOX, still shrinkwrapped! ------ Joel From arlen at acm.org Tue Jul 8 14:24:01 2003 From: arlen at acm.org (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: American Automation EZ-Pro development system Message-ID: This microprocessor development system dating from the early 80s includes a hardware in-circuit emulator for the Motorola 68HC11. I'd like to get it running but I have no documents or software. Can anyone help? The main box is model number AA-547 and I believe it hooks up by serial cable to a host PC. Besides the external ICE hardware, there's also a small prom programmer box hanging off the system. Thanks in advance, Arlen Michaels From owad at applefritter.com Tue Jul 8 15:15:01 2003 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: Kontron LA 32A hard drive? Message-ID: <20030708201132.32468@mail.earthlink.net> I have Kontron LA 32A Logic Analyzer that complains about no boot disk on startup. It has two drive bays, the first of which has a floppy drive and the second of which is empty. Does anybody know what software I'd need to get this running or would be willing to make copies? Thanks, Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From dbwood at kc.rr.com Tue Jul 8 15:32:00 2003 From: dbwood at kc.rr.com (Douglas Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: American Automation EZ-Pro development system References: Message-ID: <047d01c3458f$6acc0020$6601a8c0@kc.rr.com> An 'HC11 emulator from the "early '80s"? I'm going from solely from memory here, but I don't think that the 'HC11 existed then. Do you possibly mean the 6805 series of microcontroller, perhaps? Douglas Wood Software Engineer dbwood@kc.rr.com ICQ#: 143841506 Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC http://epicis.piclist.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arlen Michaels" To: "classiccmp" Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 2:22 PM Subject: American Automation EZ-Pro development system > This microprocessor development system dating from the early 80s includes a > hardware in-circuit emulator for the Motorola 68HC11. I'd like to get it > running but I have no documents or software. Can anyone help? > > The main box is model number AA-547 and I believe it hooks up by serial > cable to a host PC. Besides the external ICE hardware, there's also a small > prom programmer box hanging off the system. > > Thanks in advance, > Arlen Michaels From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Jul 8 15:35:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030706221918.00a45ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> References: Message-ID: <3F0B45D2.14920.1535D7AC@localhost> > > > Another puzzle is why mine came with a 240V printer when it was a 110V US > > > machine? How common is a 240V circuit over there, apart for the likes of > > > washing machines? > > How common is equipment that runs on 240V besides large appliances sold in > > the US? Not very much. > > Might depend on what environment it was designed for. If for home or office > 110v would be almost exclusively the norm. If it was designed for an industrial > environment, 220v may have been used sometimes. Plus, so many pieces of > equipment were designed to be switchable between 110v and 220v. Well, maybe keep in Mind that Witchy lives in Britain, and 240 is there (as for most other parts of the world) the standard voltage. High power (3 phases) is supposed to be 400 :) Now, for the question it's rather where did you buy the machine? Since the Printer is 240 I assume in Europe. In the late 70s a lot of machines got directly imported and the people used step down transformers to operate them - Often dealers even managed to sell these beasts to customers when the original PSU was switchable to 220 and so maxing the profit :) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Jul 8 15:37:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: Kinda OT: DEC 3000 Model 300 AXP Memory In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030708003245.00ab03e0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <001701c34590$0ee742f0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Manx ( http://vt100.net/manx ) has an upgrade manual listed for it (try searching on "dec 3000"). If that doesn't help, I have a service guide around somewhere, so yell. (And, yes, OpenVMS will feel much happier in 128MB). Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From emu at ecubics.com Tue Jul 8 16:36:00 2003 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: SCSI bit-banging Message-ID: <3F0B3947.9090707@ecubics.com> Hi all, I guess we all remember this boards attached to ataris/commodores/apples, where we had a PIA/parallel port to attach some of the nice SCSI disks. However, I don't find anything about this old bit-banging interfaces on the net. Any links ? cheers From bshannon at tiac.net Tue Jul 8 16:48:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: M220B (PDP-8/I) schematics available References: <20030708052639.27629.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> <3F0A6136.4000807@gorge.net> Message-ID: <3F0B3B40.4090405@tiac.net> Jim Davis wrote: >> >> That's been my experience, too. I have replaced as many as 8 7474s >> at a go to get an -8/L back on its feet. I don't recall replacing >> any other chip, as a matter of fact. >> >> -ethan >> >> >> > 7474's Dead d flops? whats the story on that? > Jim > Good question! I've also chased down several bad 7474's in my Imlac, and I suspect some bad 7474's on a few HP 1000 series I/O boards I have down in the shop. Is the 7474 a 'dog'? I've know a few TTL parts that were pretty bad, mainly counters though. But a latch? From phil at ultimate.com Tue Jul 8 17:08:00 2003 From: phil at ultimate.com (Phil Budne) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: OS uptimes Message-ID: <200307080120.h681KQim022550@ultimate.com> > From: Peter Hicks > However, this beats all of them: > > Uptime is 1048 days, 12 hours, 12 minutes > cat6500-1> > > This is a Catalyst 6506 switch ... Somehow an embeded box that doesn't have to run arbitrary and buggy programs seems like cheating! Here's the uptime on a old VAXstation just before a scheduled power outage: $ sho sys VAX/VMS V6.1 on node BUMMER 10-MAY-2002 16:02:42.38 Uptime 1099 02:42:54 1099 days. Admittedly it spends most of it's time sitting quietly in a corner. Looking at: http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html The top 3 current entries appear to show 1500+ The top is 1751 on a BSD/OS system. The FAQ indicates they can't detect more than 497 days of uptime on some operating systems. Another site is: http://www.uptimes.nu/index.php?area=statistics But the highest uptime is suspect: "31y 335d 20h 15m (FreeBSD 4.8-RC)" since FreeBSD 4.8 came out within the last year! -phil From evan at flextech.net Tue Jul 8 17:09:58 2003 From: evan at flextech.net (Evan R. Pauley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:46 2005 Subject: Older wordprocessing software Message-ID: Jules, I still have most of those old versions of WordPerfect 5.1 DOS, WordPerfect 6.0 for both DOS and Windows (the file formats are identical, BTW), MS Office 4.3 for Win3x, AmiPro/Samna, and even (gasp) MultiMate. I have *several* copies of the WordPerfect 5.1 manuals, along with some old Lotus 1-2-3 v2.3 and Harvard Graphics manuals (and the software for those also). Personally, I was a WordPerfect aficionado (because of the DOS/WIN file format matching). Hated Word, and used AmiPro/Samna for legal documents (best on the planet back then). Most are on 5-1/4", a few are on 3-1/2", and Office is on CD. Let me know privately what you need and we'll work out a way to get it to you. Evan Pauley ---------- You wrote: Hi all, perhaps pusing the boundaries of off-topicness here a little, but... I'm taking suggestions for wordprocessing software to run on an older 486 laptop (1994, so almost within the 10 year limit!) that's running Windows 3.11 ... I still use the machine for a bit of wordprocessing ocassionally (such as it is with Windows Write), and better software would be nice. The laptop's handy for taking stuff down on before formatting things 'properly' on a more modern desktop. I remember Ami Pro being quite reasonable on a similar spec desktop machine, but my copy went to tape years ago and around half of the old tapes of mine that I found recently are no longer readable :-( Suggestions of alternative software welcome though... cheers Jules From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Jul 8 17:11:34 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030706221918.00a45ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Mail List > Sent: 07 July 2003 03:25 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? > > Might depend on what environment it was designed for. If for home > or office > 110v would be almost exclusively the norm. If it was designed for > an industrial > environment, 220v may have been used sometimes. Plus, so many pieces of > equipment were designed to be switchable between 110v and 220v. It just seems odd that the machine itself was set for 110V whereas its printer is exclusively 240V: http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/dmp100.jpg Of course, I'm only assuming it belonged to the machine because everything came from the same yard sale - Model 3 with plastic cover, DMP100 printer with plastic cover, cassette deck and a box of paper..... cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From cvendel at att.net Tue Jul 8 17:13:10 2003 From: cvendel at att.net (cvendel@att.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: Wanted: RL02 Working... Message-ID: <200307081608.h68G8DZ50923@huey.classiccmp.org> Hi everyone, I found a place on the East Coast selling RL02's and RLV12's for $120, anyone in the NJ/NY/CT/MA/RI area (basically anyone in like a 3hr driving radius of me) have an RL02 they want to sell cheap??? I'd like to pick the unit up and save myself the $100 shipping charge (plus the worries of it bouncing around in the back of a UPS or Fedex Ground truck!) So I'd be willing to pay someone in my area $100 for a drive and $20 for an RLV12 if you have them and they are known working, please let me know, thanks!!! Also I'm still looking for an RM05 or CDC9976 300MB Disk Pak drive, if someone in my area has one that I could take on loan for 1 week and return for a $$$ Rental Fee, I'd be willing to work something out with them. Thanks, Curt From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jul 8 17:58:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: OT: Realtek; Was Re: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA...) In-Reply-To: <200307081522.h68FM8YN094136@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: On 8 Jul 2003, Frank McConnell wrote: > Mark Firestone wrote: > > Aww. They aren't the worst cheapo card I've been forced to buy in my > > career, as in they actually work, if slowly. > > > > What do you want for ?9 > > I just get something of a chuckle out of people who figure all > Ethernet cards are alike. Perhaps they have forgotten the lessons of > the 3Com 3C50[01]. What lesson was that? I thought they were fine. At least I never had problems with them. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From arlen at acm.org Tue Jul 8 18:18:00 2003 From: arlen at acm.org (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: American Automation EZ-Pro development system In-Reply-To: <047d01c3458f$6acc0020$6601a8c0@kc.rr.com> Message-ID: on 8/7/03 4:27 PM, Douglas Wood at dbwood@kc.rr.com wrote: > An 'HC11 emulator from the "early '80s"? I'm going from solely from memory > here, but I don't think that the 'HC11 existed then. Do you possibly mean > the 6805 series of microcontroller, perhaps? Sorry, I should have said "late 80s". The firmware in the 68HC11 emulator pod is dated 1-18-89. The design of the main box likely did originate somewhat earlier because it appears to be based on the SS-50 bus (believe it or not) and certainly AA produced emulators for other early Motorola cpu's. Arlen Michaels -- Arlen Michaels arlen@acm.org From spc at conman.org Tue Jul 8 18:24:01 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: OT: Realtek; Was Re: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Jul 08, 2003 03:48:36 PM Message-ID: <20030708231955.53E061449FAB@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Vintage Computer Festival once stated: > > On 8 Jul 2003, Frank McConnell wrote: > > > Mark Firestone wrote: > > > Aww. They aren't the worst cheapo card I've been forced to buy in my > > > career, as in they actually work, if slowly. > > > > > > What do you want for ?9 > > > > I just get something of a chuckle out of people who figure all > > Ethernet cards are alike. Perhaps they have forgotten the lessons of > > the 3Com 3C50[01]. > > What lesson was that? I thought they were fine. At least I never had > problems with them. Reading the comments in the Linux 3c501 driver (drivers/net/3c501.c) is amusing. Some of the good bits: Do not purchase this card, even as a joke. It's performance is horrible, and it breaks in many ways. * Some documentation is available from 3Com. Due to the boards age * standard responses when you ask for this will range from 'be serious' * to 'give it to a museum'. The documentation is incomplete and mostly * of historical interest anyway. The driver still allows only the default address for cards when loaded as a module, but that's really less braindead than anyone using a 3c501 board. :) -spc (Doesn't seem to be very popular with the Linux crowd. But I've used other 3Com cards with no problem) From jbmcb at hotmail.com Tue Jul 8 18:28:00 2003 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: OT: Realtek References: <200307062243.h66MhDCw045529@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <88e6f10d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> <3F089393.5060101@mdrconsult.com> <20030706144941.K87023@newshell.lmi.net> <200307062243.h66MhDCw045529@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <5.2.0.9.0.20030708085655.021c3f20@mail.bedlambells.com> Message-ID: ?9? You're overpaying. I bought four Belkin refurbed cards for $3 each. I use them in my old-ish machines, and are particularly nice as they have drivers for just about every OS ever made. (OS/2, BeOS, JavaOS(!), Solaris/X86) As for their technical merits, I'm sure they suck real bad performance-wise, but who cares when all I want is a fast way to get Syndicate Wars on my P-90 DR-DOS machine? :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Firestone" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 3:57 AM Subject: Re: OT: Realtek; Was Re: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA...) > Aww. They aren't the worst cheapo card I've been forced to buy in my > career, as in they actually work, if slowly. > > What do you want for ?9 > > Take Care, > > mark > > At 15:41 07/07/2003 +0100, you wrote: > >In message <200307062243.h66MhDCw045529@daemonweed.reanimators.org> > > Frank McConnell wrote: > > > > > Um, you have read the comments near the head of > > > /usr/src/sys/pci/if_rl.c, haven't you? > >Quote: > > The RealTek 8139 PCI NIC redefines the meaning of 'low end.' This is > > probably the worst PCI ethernet controller ever made, with the possible > > exception of the FEAST chip made by SMC. The 8139 supports bus-master > > DMA, but it has a terrible interface that nullifies any performance > > gains that bus-master DMA usually offers. > > > >Um.... Well, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to set fire to all the > >Realtek-based NICs in the house... EVIL EVIL EVIL!!! > > > >Later. > >-- > >Phil. > >philpem@dsl.pipex.com > >http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ > >... Real techs don't lick nine-volt batteries! > > [---------] > "Homer, we don't have to have sex." > "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." > "Deserts aren't always right Homer." > "But they're so delicious." > > Website: retrobbs.org > BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 > Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org > [---------] From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Jul 8 18:59:00 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: OT: Realtek; Was Re: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA...) In-Reply-To: Vintage Computer Festival's message of "Tue, 8 Jul 2003 15:48:36 -0700 (PDT)" References: Message-ID: <200307082337.h68Nbcnd004038@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On 8 Jul 2003, Frank McConnell wrote: > > I just get something of a chuckle out of people who figure all > > Ethernet cards are alike. Perhaps they have forgotten the lessons of > > the 3Com 3C50[01]. > > What lesson was that? I thought they were fine. At least I never had > problems with them. I am pleased to be able to say that I no longer remember the details, but the problem was something like that the card had enough room in its buffer to hold no more than one received packet. If you sent it another one before the processor on its end got around to reading the packet out of it, one packet or the other got dropped (I'm thinking the one in the buffer got dropped so that the new one could be buffered). If you didn't want any packets to get dropped, you needed to be careful to not overrun the buffer by having more than one packet outstanding. Keep in mind that this was 1987 or so and PC clock speeds were right around Ethernet bus speed, so the PC couldn't get the packets out of the buffer as quickly as the network could put them there. If someone else out there remembers more, please do feel free to jump in. -Frank McConnell From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Jul 8 19:16:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: OT: Realtek; Was Re: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA...) In-Reply-To: <200307082337.h68Nbcnd004038@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: On 8 Jul 2003, Frank McConnell wrote: > I am pleased to be able to say that I no longer remember the details, > but the problem was something like that the card had enough room in > its buffer to hold no more than one received packet. If you sent it > another one before the processor on its end got around to reading the > packet out of it, one packet or the other got dropped (I'm thinking > the one in the buffer got dropped so that the new one could be > buffered). Indeed, the SEEQ chipset (...) could only do one thing at a time, so they sized the buffers accordingly. The Etherlink II had more buffer space, but was crippled in the same way: it was single-tasked. > If someone else out there remembers more, please do feel free to jump in. I dont wanna ;) --fred (who co-wrote that damn driver in linux, AND debugged it to get it a LITTLE bit working..) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jul 8 19:29:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: New Finds: SWTPC :-) Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030708202609.44e730a2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> A friend of mine picked up about 30 boxs of electronics parts, data books, evaluation kits, parts samples, etc at a local flea market last week. Today I was helping him go through the stuff and I spotted some familar looking boards. I picked one up and remarked that it looked like something for the SWTPCs. Then THE very next board that I picked up was marked "SWTPC" so I knew I was onto somehting good. I dug through the boxs and got 6+ boxs of disks with software for the FLEX OS (used on the SWTPCs) and found six circuit boards for the SWTPCs. Here's the list: (1) SWTPC MP-09 - Replacement CPU board for the SWTPC computers, uses 6809 CPU. This is a MP-09, not an A or B. (2) A Southeastern Micro Systems DDC-16 Floppy Drive Controller. (3) A Tanner Computers SS-50 64k memory board, uses 2716 EPROMs or 6116 S RAMs. This one has the S RAMS installed. (4) A SWTPC MP-R 2716 EPROM burner card. (5) A SWTPC MP-T Interrupt Timer board. It's implemented with a 5009 programmable counter/ divider and 6820 PIA ICs and provides software selectable interrupts of 1 usec, 10 usec, 100 usec, 1 msec, 10 msec, 20 msec, 100 msec, 1 sec, 10 sec, 100 sec, 1 min, 10 min or 1 hour. (6) A Gimix 2 port Serial Interface board. Fits the SS-30 socket and uses two MC68B50s. I found everything else described on Michal Holley's SWTPC site but not this one. Does anyone have any details on it? Pretty good haul, specailly considering that I didn't have to go anywhere and find it :-) Joe From rodyoung at shaw.ca Tue Jul 8 19:33:00 2003 From: rodyoung at shaw.ca (Rod Young) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: /35 /40/ 45 ? References: <200307062243.h66MhDCw045529@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <88e6f10d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> <3F089393.5060101@mdrconsult.com> <20030706144941.K87023@newshell.lmi.net> <200307062243.h66MhDCw045529@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <5.2.0.9.0.20030708085655.021c3f20@mail.bedlambells.com> Message-ID: <015701c345b0$31a0faa0$0300a8c0@ss.shawcable.net> Well, I'll take a chance and ask... just in case timing is right... I'm looking for a PDP 11/35, or /40 to add to the collection. I know I know, who isn't looking for one! I have a few 11/23's and misc cards I might consider trading in case anyone in Western Canada has a /35 or /40 they are looking to trade??? sell ??? or just find a good home for... thx rod From mtapley at bams.ccf.swri.edu Tue Jul 8 20:22:00 2003 From: mtapley at bams.ccf.swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: Looking for new maintainer for DECVAX.ORG and PDP11.ORG In-Reply-To: <20030706051114.GA9733@mrbill.net> References: <20030706051114.GA9733@mrbill.net> Message-ID: mrbill wrote: >I've also got about a truck-full (maybe a station wagon load, maybe >less) of old DEC documentation, handbooks, software on paper tape, a >disc pack or two... Jeff Sharp has seen my garage. 8-) I can't ship any >of it (unless you provide a FedEx or UPS account number to bill to), and >would like to avoid throwing it in the trash. At least 3-4 "storage tubs" >of manuals and documentation, a mixed VMS 4/5 "orange wall", and various >other things. > >If you're interested, please contact me by email. I don't have time for >DEC/PDP stuff anymore, and need the space in my garage back - but want >it all to go to someone worthwhile. I don't have room to keep this, but if anyone is interested in this, could likely help with a "rescue". Let me know when/if you want to set something up. -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jul 8 20:31:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: /35 /40/ 45 ? In-Reply-To: <015701c345b0$31a0faa0$0300a8c0@ss.shawcable.net> from "Rod Young" at Jul 08, 2003 06:22:34 PM Message-ID: <200307090127.h691R8dR013659@shell1.aracnet.com> > I'm looking for a PDP 11/35, or /40 to add to the collection. I know I > know, who isn't looking for one! I'm not. I don't have the room :^( Zane From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Jul 8 22:09:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: /35 /40/ 45 ? References: <200307090127.h691R8dR013659@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <000c01c345c6$d5fb6750$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Zane wrote.... > I'm not. I don't have the room :^( I *DO* have the room, and I AM looking for a 35/40/45 *grin*. So of someone is getting a little tight on space..... Jay (dreaming) West From spectre at floodgap.com Tue Jul 8 22:14:00 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: Commodore CBM/PET in Terminator 3 In-Reply-To: <001901c3454e$d6217b70$2000100a@palazzolo> from Frank Palazzolo at "Jul 8, 3 08:45:34 am" Message-ID: <200307090317.UAA09850@floodgap.com> > Anyone else spot that one near the end of the movie? It was one of the > 80-column models. Yeah, I noticed that. I'm wondering which computer John Connor knocked on the ground, though. It looked like an early X-term of some vintage. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- High explosives are applicable where truth and logic fail. -- Marcello Corno From rodyoung at shaw.ca Tue Jul 8 22:51:01 2003 From: rodyoung at shaw.ca (Rod Young) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: /35 /40/ 45 ? References: <200307090127.h691R8dR013659@shell1.aracnet.com> <000c01c345c6$d5fb6750$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <022201c345cb$c7256460$0300a8c0@ss.shawcable.net> And... if someone wants to swap an 35/40/45 for my 11/23 ---SMILE... let me know! rod (hoping) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 9:04 PM Subject: Re: /35 /40/ 45 ? > Zane wrote.... > > I'm not. I don't have the room :^( > > I *DO* have the room, and I AM looking for a 35/40/45 *grin*. > > So of someone is getting a little tight on space..... > > Jay (dreaming) West From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Jul 9 02:22:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: OT: Realtek; Was Re: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA...) In-Reply-To: <200307081522.h68FM8YN094136@daemonweed.reanimators.org>; from fmc@reanimators.org on Tue, Jul 08, 2003 at 17:22:08 %z References: <200307062243.h66MhDCw045529@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <88e6f10d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> <3F089393.5060101@mdrconsult.com> <20030706144941.K87023@newshell.lmi.net> <200307062243.h66MhDCw045529@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <5.2.0.9.0.20030708085655.021c3f20@mail.bedlambells.com> <200307081522.h68FM8YN094136@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <20030708184659.GA1319@oblina> On 2003.07.08 17:22 Frank McConnell wrote: > Perhaps they have forgotten the lessons of > the 3Com 3C50[01]. The 3C50[01] was bevore my time. Please tell me the story. BTW: I found this in the NetBSD source for the Realtek cards: src/sys/dev/pci/if_rtk_pci.c /* * Default to using PIO access for this driver. On SMP systems, * there appear to be problems with memory mapped mode: it looks like * doing too many memory mapped access back to back in rapid succession * can hang the bus. I'm inclined to blame this on crummy design/construction * on the part of RealTek. Memory mapped mode does appear to work on * uniprocessor systems though. */ -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From elf at ucsd.edu Wed Jul 9 05:01:00 2003 From: elf at ucsd.edu (Eric F.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: Older wordprocessing software (XyWrite) In-Reply-To: <20030708170001.51227.53327.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030709025653.00842c60@popmail.ucsd.edu> On Tue, 08-Jul-2003, @ 08:20:50 -0400, Gene Ehrich wrote: >What ever happened to XyWrite, was it acquired by another company? Yeah - something like that. XyWrite's history of commercial development took a few odd turns, and suffered the consequences of some marketing mishaps. A web page w/some decent info on XyWrite can be found @ http://www.escape.com/~yesss/_xywhat.htm (This is not my web site, BTW.) Regards, Eric From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jul 9 05:09:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: OT: Realtek; Was Re: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at In-Reply-To: <20030708231955.53E061449FAB@swift.conman.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > > What lesson was that? I thought they were fine. At least I never had > > problems with them. > > Reading the comments in the Linux 3c501 driver (drivers/net/3c501.c) is > amusing. Some of the good bits: Oh, never mind. I was thinking of the 3c509, which works pretty OK. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From nedry at mail.bedlambells.com Wed Jul 9 08:43:00 2003 From: nedry at mail.bedlambells.com (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: OT: Realtek; Was Re: Windoze crash (was Re: Well, I was at Fry's in CA...) In-Reply-To: <200307081522.h68FM8YN094136@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <200307062243.h66MhDCw045529@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <88e6f10d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> <3F089393.5060101@mdrconsult.com> <20030706144941.K87023@newshell.lmi.net> <200307062243.h66MhDCw045529@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <5.2.0.9.0.20030708085655.021c3f20@mail.bedlambells.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030709143727.0163e5b8@mail.bedlambells.com> Sounds like my old boss ... he always bought the cheapest junk. He used to buy the ?9 modems as well, until I convinced him (after about a dozen on site visits) that it was worth the extra ?20 to put in external *real* modems. No problems after that... At 08:22 08/07/2003 -0700, Frank wrote: >I just get something of a chuckle out of people who figure all >Ethernet cards are alike. Perhaps they have forgotten the lessons of >the 3Com 3C50[01]. > >-Frank McConnell [---------] "Homer, we don't have to have sex." "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." "Deserts aren't always right Homer." "But they're so delicious." Website: retrobbs.org BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org [---------] From nedry at mail.bedlambells.com Wed Jul 9 08:46:00 2003 From: nedry at mail.bedlambells.com (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: OT: Realtek In-Reply-To: References: <200307062243.h66MhDCw045529@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <88e6f10d4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> <3F089393.5060101@mdrconsult.com> <20030706144941.K87023@newshell.lmi.net> <200307062243.h66MhDCw045529@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <5.2.0.9.0.20030708085655.021c3f20@mail.bedlambells.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030709143911.015c3278@mail.bedlambells.com> Very true. I must have installed a hundred of them, and I think I had two go bad. The folks who were using them would never have noticed the difference -- all they were doing was sharing a few word documents, and downloading rafts of pornography on company time... What is Syndicate Wars? Sounds familiar? Sounds interesting... Take Care, Mark At 12:44 08/07/2003 -0400, Jason McBrien wrote: >As for their technical merits, I'm sure they suck real bad performance-wise, >but who cares when all I want is a fast way to get Syndicate Wars on my P-90 >DR-DOS machine? :) [---------] "Homer, we don't have to have sex." "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." "Deserts aren't always right Homer." "But they're so delicious." Website: retrobbs.org BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org [---------] From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Jul 9 09:50:00 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: Up for bid - More 'classic' goodies Message-ID: <200307090746250145.998CD24F@192.168.42.129> Shameless plug alert! I've got a few items in my latest crop of auctions that may be of interest to those of you running MicroVAX, MicroPDP, or IBM PS/2 Model 70 or 80 systems. First off, there's an IBM 'Blue Lightning' CPU upgrade kit, unused and still in its original packaging. This takes a 386 PS/2 system up to IBM's 486DLC. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2740760908 Second is another Maxtor XT2190 drive, which I'm told is the same as a DEC RD54. Don't know for sure what shape it's in, but I recall it was a pull from an old PC (which got scrapped). http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2740802251 Finally, there's a DEC RRD40 CD-ROM drive (the one with the psychotic D-sub 15 connector on its case). http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2740796077 There's other non-classic (and non-computer) stuff as well, if you're curious. No reserve on anything, some stuff listed as 'buy-it-now.' Thanks for looking. Anyway, hit E-pay and do a seller search -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jul 9 18:02:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: Older wordprocessing software Message-ID: <20030709225817.20379.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com> > > Windows 3.11 > 1. Replace Windows with an operating system. E.g. Linux or NetBSD. > (Especially the later runs very well on older hardware with non-GHz CPUs > and only a few MB RAM.) > You may skip this step if you are not willing to wrap your head around > Unix. Ahh, been there though. I did run Linux on this very same laptop for a while - I believe it was AbiWord I used as a basic GUI-based wordprocessor for my scribbles. At the time, one problem was the lack of CDROM drive on the machine for getting any large software onto it. The only parallel-port drive I had access to was a Microsolutions Backpack, and no matter what I tried it refused to work with Linux. No problems there under DOS / Win311. Second problem was one of performance - the linux distributions that were around a couple of years ago tended to be aimed at slightly faster hardware. I do still have old distributions lying around back to around 1994 or so (I remember the days of SLS on 50 or so floppies - it was always guaranteed *one* of the disks would be dead, usually near the end of the pile :) but then I'd have all sorts of compatibility problems with any modern software. Alternately I could trim down a more modern version of Linux - but that's a lot of effort for something that just gets used for casual note-taking now and then. Third problem is also performance-related, and down to the time it takes Linux - or any modern MS operating system - to start up and shut down. If I just want to spend a couple of minutes typing some notes, I don't want to be taking the same length of time waiting for the machine to boot and then shut down again at the end. With DOS / Win311 the startup and shutdown is extremely quick. Maybe there's a version of NetBSD that gets round the second problem, but I bet it still takes a lot longer than DOS/Windows does to boot and shut down. > I used several WYSIWYG text processing software at that time > (WordPerfect, AmiPro, StarWriter, ...) and they all sucked. Wordperfect 6.0 I assume, 5.1 not being particularly WYSIWYG as I recall :-) And yes, from memory 6.0 did suck; all these posts have reminded me of all the wordprocessing software I'd forgotten about. I used to use 5.1 a *lot* under DOS until I started running Windows 3 on the PC I had back then. I have a horrible feeling the negative thing I vaguely recall about Ami Pro was its stability, at least in the version I had :-( Maybe there were later releases with the problems ironed out, or it was just some odd problem with the machine I had back then. If I can trace a copy then I'll find out I suppose... Someone mentioned DisplayWrite too - arghh! That had totally faded from my memory. My father's work made it their standard for a while; I should have access to a copy in theory but I have no plans to try and track that one down... :-) cheers Jules ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From brodie at goulburn.net.au Wed Jul 9 18:27:00 2003 From: brodie at goulburn.net.au (Paul Brodie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: PC-7221 Message-ID: Mike, I also have a Sharp lunch box computer and have tried to get a boot disk or config disk. Have you had any luck ? Regards Brodie From roy.harbert at adelphia.net Wed Jul 9 18:28:31 2003 From: roy.harbert at adelphia.net (roy.harbert@adelphia.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: hp 5036A Lab Message-ID: <20030709220900.OCN25556.mta1.adelphia.net@[64.8.50.100]> Do you still have loose bound copies of the manual? I would be glad to scan and post them as I am in need of them myself. I just purchased a lab from eBay, but it came with no manual or processor. Do you happen to know if there are any micro's floating around?? Thanks for your time, Roy From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Jul 9 18:34:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: PDP 8 for over $3000 Message-ID: <00d201c34672$0ccd67f0$cf0add40@oemcomputer> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2738787795 From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jul 9 19:08:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: PDP 8 for over $3000 In-Reply-To: <00d201c34672$0ccd67f0$cf0add40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Keys wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2738787795 That's a bargain! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Jul 9 19:25:00 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: PDP 8 for over $3000 In-Reply-To: <00d201c34672$0ccd67f0$cf0add40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030709200032.01e010b8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Keys may have mentioned these words: >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2738787795 Well, with a serial number of 0 --> yes, that's not a typo -- Zero -- wouldn't you pick it up if you had the cash & storage??? ;^> Here's a link to the pic: http://gbweb.biz/PDP/serial.jpg Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jul 9 19:26:35 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: PDP 8 for over $3000 In-Reply-To: <00d201c34672$0ccd67f0$cf0add40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030709200914.3a0f6aae@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> WOW! I think that's the first time that I've ever seen Al get outbid! Joe At 06:30 PM 7/9/03 -0500, you wrote: >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2738787795 From spc at conman.org Wed Jul 9 19:49:33 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: Older wordprocessing software In-Reply-To: <20030709225817.20379.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com> from "=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=" at Jul 09, 2003 11:58:17 PM Message-ID: <20030709233517.62EA3140D49D@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great =?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?= once stated: > > > > Windows 3.11 > > 1. Replace Windows with an operating system. E.g. Linux or NetBSD. > > (Especially the later runs very well on older hardware with non-GHz CPUs > > and only a few MB RAM.) > > You may skip this step if you are not willing to wrap your head around > > Unix. > > Ahh, been there though. I did run Linux on this very same laptop for a while - > I believe it was AbiWord I used as a basic GUI-based wordprocessor for my > scribbles. > > At the time, one problem was the lack of CDROM drive on the machine for getting > any large software onto it. The only parallel-port drive I had access to was a > Microsolutions Backpack, and no matter what I tried it refused to work with > Linux. No problems there under DOS / Win311. Heh. I ran into this a few years ago when I received a laptop (486, 4M RAM, 120M harddrive): http://boston.conman.org/1999/12/13.4 http://boston.conman.org/1999/12/14.1-15.1 http://boston.conman.org/2000/01/06 It took several days, but I was able to get Linux (a drastically lobotomized installation of RedHat 5.2) onto the laptop. I think the entire process went something like: boot laptop with Tom's Rootboot disk. It barely ran in 4M of RAM and about the only tools I had on *that* system were bash, dd and fdisk. I also had a full Linux installation on another system. Generally, I made disk images on the primary Linux system, tarred and compressed them onto a floppy, then untarred, uncompressed and dd'ed on the laptop. Rince. Lather. Repeat. For the better part of a day. > Second problem was one of performance - the linux distributions that were > around a couple of years ago tended to be aimed at slightly faster hardware. I > do still have old distributions lying around back to around 1994 or so (I > remember the days of SLS on 50 or so floppies - it was always guaranteed *one* > of the disks would be dead, usually near the end of the pile :) but then I'd > have all sorts of compatibility problems with any modern software. Alternately > I could trim down a more modern version of Linux - but that's a lot of effort > for something that just gets used for casual note-taking now and then. Heh, that is if you can still find an older Linux distribution that's installable. The reason I went the route I did was that RedHat 5.2 required 16M RAM just for the install, and the *oldest* Slackware version required 8M RAM. > Third problem is also performance-related, and down to the time it takes Linux > - or any modern MS operating system - to start up and shut down. If I just want > to spend a couple of minutes typing some notes, I don't want to be taking the > same length of time waiting for the machine to boot and then shut down again at > the end. With DOS / Win311 the startup and shutdown is extremely quick. Well, clean up the boot-time scripts and you can cut the boot time down tremendously. > Maybe there's a version of NetBSD that gets round the second problem, but I bet > it still takes a lot longer than DOS/Windows does to boot and shut down. True, you can just shut the machine down under DOS while you have to shut down a Unix system---although again, if you clean up the boot-time scripts you can cut that time to a minimum. -spc (Been there, done that, probably won't do it again 8-) From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jul 10 10:49:01 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: PDP 8 for over $3000 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030709200914.3a0f6aae@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030709200914.3a0f6aae@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Joe wrote: > At 06:30 PM 7/9/03 -0500, you wrote: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2738787795 > > WOW! I think that's the first time that I've ever seen Al get outbid! At least the high bidder is also list member, so hopefully he can arrange something to get the docs and software archived. I do have to wonder how he is going to get the thing shipped to the UK... -Toth From design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca Thu Jul 10 11:28:00 2003 From: design.fort at ns.sympatico.ca (The Design Fort DTP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: Commodore CBM/PET in Terminator 3 In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030708140243.021c8ef8@mail.bedlambells.com> Message-ID: In the Canadian Movie "Trudeau" about the former Canadian Prime minister, you can spot 3 PETs. One Chicklet PET, a Super PET 9000 and a CBM 8032 with disk drive. The production team rented them two years ago from my museum. PETs are awesome movie props :) Herbert on 7/8/03 9:03 AM, Mark Firestone at nedry@mail.bedlambells.com wrote: > I haven't seen it yet, but Captain Kirk owns one! Check out Star Trek > II... in his apartment... > > At 08:45 08/07/2003 -0400, you wrote: >> Anyone else spot that one near the end of the movie? It was one of the >> 80-column models. >> Not sure what any of the other "30-year old" computers were. >> >> -Frank > > [---------] > "Homer, we don't have to have sex." > "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." > "Deserts aren't always right Homer." > "But they're so delicious." > > Website: retrobbs.org > BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 > Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org > [---------] From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Jul 10 11:58:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: Commodore CBM/PET in Terminator 3 References: Message-ID: <000801c34703$ba54cee0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Whats it cost to rent computers? ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Design Fort DTP" To: Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 1:23 PM Subject: Re: Commodore CBM/PET in Terminator 3 > In the Canadian Movie "Trudeau" about the former Canadian Prime minister, > you can spot 3 PETs. One Chicklet PET, a Super PET 9000 and a CBM 8032 with > disk drive. > The production team rented them two years ago from my museum. > > PETs are awesome movie props :) > > Herbert > > on 7/8/03 9:03 AM, Mark Firestone at nedry@mail.bedlambells.com wrote: > > > I haven't seen it yet, but Captain Kirk owns one! Check out Star Trek > > II... in his apartment... > > > > At 08:45 08/07/2003 -0400, you wrote: > >> Anyone else spot that one near the end of the movie? It was one of the > >> 80-column models. > >> Not sure what any of the other "30-year old" computers were. > >> > >> -Frank > > > > [---------] > > "Homer, we don't have to have sex." > > "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." > > "Deserts aren't always right Homer." > > "But they're so delicious." > > > > Website: retrobbs.org > > BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 > > Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org > > [---------] From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Jul 10 12:12:01 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: PDP 8 for over $3000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > At least the high bidder is also list member, so hopefully he can arrange > something to get the docs and software archived. I do have to wonder how > he is going to get the thing shipped to the UK... Yes, we wouldn't want a PDP-8 to belong to one of those unclean non-list members. So dirty, so untouchable. We must keep our PDP-8s pure. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jul 10 12:21:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: PDP 8 for over $3000 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, William Donzelli wrote: > > At least the high bidder is also list member, so hopefully he can > > arrange something to get the docs and software archived. I do have to > > wonder how he is going to get the thing shipped to the UK... > > Yes, we wouldn't want a PDP-8 to belong to one of those unclean non-list > members. So dirty, so untouchable. We must keep our PDP-8s pure. Well, it sure beats it going into a "collection" in someone's dark basement, never to be seen by mere mortals again ;P -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jul 10 12:37:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: M220B (PDP-8/I) schematics available In-Reply-To: <3F0B3B40.4090405@tiac.net> References: <20030708052639.27629.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> <3F0A6136.4000807@gorge.net> <3F0B3B40.4090405@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Bob Shannon wrote: > Jim Davis wrote: > > > 7474's Dead d flops? whats the story on that? > > Good question! I've also chased down several bad 7474's in my Imlac, > and I suspect some bad 7474's on a few HP 1000 series I/O boards I have > down in the shop. > > Is the 7474 a 'dog'? I've know a few TTL parts that were pretty bad, > mainly counters though. But a latch? This reminds me of a similar problem in the JC80 systems, where 74170 chips would fail more often than anything else. I'd sure like to know what the cause of that was... -Toth From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Jul 10 13:36:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: PDP 8 for over $3000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Tothwolf wrote: > > Yes, we wouldn't want a PDP-8 to belong to one of those unclean non-list > > members. So dirty, so untouchable. We must keep our PDP-8s pure. > > Well, it sure beats it going into a "collection" in someone's dark > basement, never to be seen by mere mortals again ;P Worse... get bought by someone, only to strip it for needed parts, nailing the front panel to their living room wall, and throw the rest away *eeeek* [seen that happen in person, soo..] --f From kth at srv.net Thu Jul 10 14:39:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: PDP 8 for over $3000 References: Message-ID: <3F0DCA2E.7090800@srv.net> Fred N. van Kempen wrote >Worse... get bought by someone, only to strip it for needed parts, >nailing the front panel to their living room wall, and throw the >rest away *eeeek* > >[seen that happen in person, soo..] > > > What someone needs to design, is a PDP-8 that fits entirely inside of a front panel (modern re-creation, not an original one), fully functional including switches, emulated disks, etc.. Nail that to your wall, with a flat-panel VT emulator nailed next to it. Then wait for someone to ask about it. Make up stories about embeding it into your wall so people can't steal it, you could only afford this much of it, it got crushed, etc... From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 10 14:42:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: M220B (PDP-8/I) schematics available In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Jul 10, 3 12:46:35 pm Message-ID: > > Is the 7474 a 'dog'? I've know a few TTL parts that were pretty bad, > > mainly counters though. But a latch? > > This reminds me of a similar problem in the JC80 systems, where 74170 > chips would fail more often than anything else. I'd sure like to know what > the cause of that was... I can remember replacing many 7474s in the RK11-C when I was getting that going. Oh, and a 7482 adder, which was impossible to find [1]... More recently, I've had a lot of 74Hxxx parts (and yet more 7474s) fail in HP98x0 calculators. I guess after 30 years I can't really moan... [1] I do mean _iompossible_. I ended up using part of a 7483 that I stuck to the flip-chip PCB dead-bug style and wired to the holes where the 7482 should have been. Runs fine... -tony From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Thu Jul 10 14:53:00 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: PDP 8 for over $3000 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030710194936.GA9180@4mcnabb.net> On Thu, Jul 10, 2003 at 08:31:41PM +0200, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > Worse... get bought by someone, only to strip it for needed parts, > nailing the front panel to their living room wall, and throw the > rest away *eeeek* > Even worse is seeing a bunch guys at the shooting range blowing holes in old hardware with various handheld weaponry. Fortunately, the day I saw this they were just old 386s, 486s, and the occaisional Mac. I made sure to keep an eye on what they were putting down range so that I could stop them if anything significant showed up. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Christopher L McNabb Tel: 540 231 7554 Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@vt.edu Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.205622N 80.414595W GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Jul 10 15:07:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: PDP 8 for over $3000 In-Reply-To: <20030710194936.GA9180@4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Christopher McNabb wrote: > Even worse is seeing a bunch guys at the shooting range blowing holes in > old hardware with various handheld weaponry. Fortunately, the day I saw > this they were just old 386s, 486s, and the occaisional Mac. THAT is easy to fix. Grab your own, uhh, hand-held and aim at their cars, yelling "hey guys, what range would this be, ya guess?" :) --f From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jul 10 15:20:01 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: M220B (PDP-8/I) schematics available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > This reminds me of a similar problem in the JC80 systems, where 74170 > > chips would fail more often than anything else. I'd sure like to know > > what the cause of that was... > > I can remember replacing many 7474s in the RK11-C when I was getting > that going. Oh, and a 7482 adder, which was impossible to find [1]... > > [1] I do mean _impossible_. I ended up using part of a 7483 that I stuck > to the flip-chip PCB dead-bug style and wired to the holes where the > 7482 should have been. Runs fine... You know what happens when someone says impossible... I just checked my parts bins, and I have *one* 7482, a TI part with a date code of 7541. If you still want to replace your 7483 kludge, and know of an economical way to get small things from the US to the UK, let me know. Btw, what was the vintage of the old chip? Chances are one of the local surplus places I visit from time to time has some 7482 chips in one of their bins. -Toth From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Jul 10 15:31:01 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: PDP 8 for over $3000 References: Message-ID: <006901c34721$8bc14d60$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Aiming a weapon at somebodies SUV is a good way to get yourself shot. I wouldnt shed a tear over an old PC or Mac (except for the ones with built in screen since they are an environmental hazard) , its better then some redneck shooting a stray dog or other poor animal. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 4:03 PM Subject: Re: PDP 8 for over $3000 > On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Christopher McNabb wrote: > > > Even worse is seeing a bunch guys at the shooting range blowing holes in > > old hardware with various handheld weaponry. Fortunately, the day I saw > > this they were just old 386s, 486s, and the occaisional Mac. > THAT is easy to fix. Grab your own, uhh, hand-held and aim at their > cars, yelling "hey guys, what range would this be, ya guess?" :) > > --f From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Jul 10 15:38:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: PDP 8 for over $3000 In-Reply-To: <006901c34721$8bc14d60$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, TeoZ wrote: > Aiming a weapon at somebodies SUV is a good way to get yourself shot. Yup.. been there, dunnit (as I used to live in Miss. ... ;-) > in screen since they are an environmental hazard) , its better then some > redneck shooting a stray dog or other poor animal. Cant comment on that, just got done with the legal forces here regarding shooting some pidgins off my roof. No, dont try this at home if you live in Holland. You'll do time. Been there, etc. --f From allain at panix.com Thu Jul 10 15:41:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:47 2005 Subject: PDP 8 for over $3000 References: <3F0DCA2E.7090800@srv.net> Message-ID: <001c01c34722$e157e580$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> >> [seen that happen in person, soo..] >> > What someone needs to design, is a PDP-8 that fits entirely > inside of a front panel (modern re-creation, not an original one) related: Got an elSpammo saying that for $40 you can get an Atari (trademarked too) games machine, 'cept they fit the whole CPU into the joystick controller. Kinda authentic -and funny- looking. ( http://www.youcansave.com/atari.html ) figured maybe 20% of the rest of the list didn't know this already John A. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 10 15:44:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: PDP 8 for over $3000 In-Reply-To: <3F0DCA2E.7090800@srv.net> Message-ID: <20030710204006.7344.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Kevin Handy wrote: > What someone needs to design, is a PDP-8 that fits entirely inside of > a front panel (modern re-creation, not an original one)... Patience. One of the goals of the SBC-6120 project is a toggle-switch front panel. :-) The CPU board is the size of a postcard. > Nail that to your wall, with a flat-panel VT emulator nailed next to it. I can do better... a real a flat-panel terminal (Planar ELT-320). One of the list members has his on a desk-extension arm. -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 10 15:46:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: M220B (PDP-8/I) schematics available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030710204123.43512.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > > Is the 7474 a 'dog'? > > I can remember replacing many 7474s in the RK11-C when I was getting that > going. Oh, and a 7482 adder, which was impossible to find [1]... One of these days, I need to get my RK11-C up and working (I have a working RK11D that's been used recently - I've had the -C since 1984 and haven't ever had the occasion to power it on). I should probably build a KM-11 clone first. -ethjan From bpope at wordstock.com Thu Jul 10 15:49:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: Atari 10-in-1 joystick (WAS: Re: PDP 8 for over $3000) In-Reply-To: <001c01c34722$e157e580$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Jul 10, 03 04:36:02 pm Message-ID: <200307102042.QAA14732@wordstock.com> And thusly John Allain spake: > > related: > Got an elSpammo saying that for $40 you can get an Atari > (trademarked too) games machine, 'cept they fit the whole > CPU into the joystick controller. Kinda authentic -and funny- > looking. ( http://www.youcansave.com/atari.html ) > > > figured maybe 20% of the rest of the list didn't know this already > I already got mine quite awhile ago... But it was around $20 from an Avon person at my work. :) Some of the games shouldn't have been put in, since they originally used a paddle!!!!! Cheers, Bryan From dittman at dittman.net Thu Jul 10 16:01:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: PDP 8 for over $3000 In-Reply-To: <20030710204006.7344.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 10, 2003 01:40:06 PM Message-ID: <20030710205633.7DFA17F86@dittman.net> > > Nail that to your wall, with a flat-panel VT emulator nailed next to it. > > I can do better... a real a flat-panel terminal (Planar ELT-320). One of > the list members has his on a desk-extension arm. That's how I have my ELT320 mounted. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 10 17:12:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: M220B (PDP-8/I) schematics available In-Reply-To: <20030710204123.43512.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 10, 3 01:41:23 pm Message-ID: > One of these days, I need to get my RK11-C up and working (I have a > working RK11D that's been used recently - I've had the -C since 1984 > and haven't ever had the occasion to power it on). > > I should probably build a KM-11 clone first. You'll need it. Actually, it's useful to have _2_ of them, since there are a pair of KN11 connectors with different signals on them. Does anyone have the full lights panel for the RK11C? It's 144 LEDs or bulbs that display the I/O registers, etc. I have the panel, but not the right bezel for the RK11-C (I only have the DX11 bezel...) Not particularly useful, but the blinkenlights sure look pretty.... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 10 17:16:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: M220B (PDP-8/I) schematics available In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Jul 10, 3 03:29:39 pm Message-ID: [7482 chip] > > [1] I do mean _impossible_. I ended up using part of a 7483 that I stuck > > to the flip-chip PCB dead-bug style and wired to the holes where the > > 7482 should have been. Runs fine... > > You know what happens when someone says impossible... 'Somebody these days claiming something is impossible is apt to be interrupted by some fool doing it' :-) > > I just checked my parts bins, and I have *one* 7482, a TI part with a date > code of 7541. If you still want to replace your 7483 kludge, and know of > an economical way to get small things from the US to the UK, let me know. Actually, I got some 7482s a couple of years later. But I never bothered to replace the kludge -- it works well, so I don't see any reason to pull the card again. If it fails, I'll try one of the 7482s I have... > Btw, what was the vintage of the old chip? Chances are one of the local Around 1972, when the controller was made. -tony From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Jul 10 17:52:01 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: PDP 8 for over $3000 References: Message-ID: <3F0DED62.7060601@tiac.net> Right, like my, not-seen-on-the-web collection! Tothwolf wrote: >On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, William Donzelli wrote: > >>>At least the high bidder is also list member, so hopefully he can >>>arrange something to get the docs and software archived. I do have to >>>wonder how he is going to get the thing shipped to the UK... >>> >>Yes, we wouldn't want a PDP-8 to belong to one of those unclean non-list >>members. So dirty, so untouchable. We must keep our PDP-8s pure. >> > >Well, it sure beats it going into a "collection" in someone's dark >basement, never to be seen by mere mortals again ;P > >-Toth From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Jul 10 18:06:01 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: M220B (PDP-8/I) schematics available References: Message-ID: <3F0DF08A.8040401@tiac.net> Hell yes, the blinkinlights are over half the point to vintage hardware! When I built my HP1000 ATAPI (IDE) disk controller, the first job was drilling 72 holes in the rack mount front pannel for the LED's! Turning that into a working disk drive was rather, well, secondary to getting the LEDs blinking in a meaningful way. I even tweaked my current limiting resistors to try to match the LEDs brightness to those of the HP 2113 CPU, and use a real HP grey blank panel spacer so it would look 'close to right'. I gotta get .JPG of that machine on-line someplace.... Tony Duell wrote: >>One of these days, I need to get my RK11-C up and working (I have a >>working RK11D that's been used recently - I've had the -C since 1984 >>and haven't ever had the occasion to power it on). >> >>I should probably build a KM-11 clone first. >> > >You'll need it. Actually, it's useful to have _2_ of them, since there >are a pair of KN11 connectors with different signals on them. > >Does anyone have the full lights panel for the RK11C? It's 144 LEDs or >bulbs that display the I/O registers, etc. I have the panel, but not the >right bezel for the RK11-C (I only have the DX11 bezel...) > >Not particularly useful, but the blinkenlights sure look pretty.... > >-tony From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jul 10 19:23:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: Can anyone id these HP ICs? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030710202035.426f92f8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Picked up an HP circuit card today with some NEAT looking ICs. The ICs are 16 pin DIP packages but are made entirely of gold and ceramic. They have a gold bottom plate then a layer of white ceramic with what appears to be a gold ring around the top then a gold lid soldered to that. The legs are also all gold. They sit on gold plates that are slightly smalled than the ICs and the plates have a single leg coming off of each end that is soldered to the circuit board. The IC legs don't even mount in regular IC sockets instead there is a gold leaf terminal for each leg. I've never seen that type of terminals used for ICs before but HP does use them for individual wires in some of their products. The wires to the card readers in the HP-67 and HP-41 card readers are connected that way. I have no idea what this card came out of other than it's made by HP. The part number that's on it doesn't help id it either. There are 12 of these strange looking ICs on the card. They have HP logos and all the part number 1820-2000, 1820-1999 or 1820-0753. I've searched the net for those numbers and checked the on-line HP part number cross references but didn't find anything. However the 1820 prefix usually indicates that the part uses TTL levels. Any ideas? Joe From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Jul 11 00:58:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: Teh over priced Mark-8/IBM 5100 is back In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030707171815.444f0b58@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000c01c34770$dd927ca0$503fcd18@WaynePC> > The seller is the overpriced systems and swiped > descriptions and photos is back. > &category=12> > Is this the same seller ID or a new one? > > Joe > Gone again. -W From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Jul 11 01:10:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: RLV11 in VAX 4000-400? Message-ID: <20030711075036.F327456@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Hi. Can I use a RLV11 in a VAX 4000-400? The pdp11-field-guide.txt says: RLV11 RLV11 Q RL01/02 disk controller option, consists of RLV11 modules M8013 and M8014. Q/CD-only option. RLV11 18-bit DMA only. Caution: uses BC1 and BD1 RLV11 for purposes other than BDAL18 and BDAL19 The VAX 4000-400 has a 22 bit Qbus (all slots are Q/CD). So it looks like this can't work due to the 22 bit bus that uses BC1 and BD1? -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jul 11 01:38:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: RLV11 in VAX 4000-400? In-Reply-To: <20030711075036.F327456@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <20030711075036.F327456@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: >Can I use a RLV11 in a VAX 4000-400? > >The pdp11-field-guide.txt says: >RLV11 RLV11 Q RL01/02 disk controller option, consists of >RLV11 modules M8013 and M8014. Q/CD-only option. >RLV11 18-bit DMA only. Caution: uses BC1 and BD1 >RLV11 for purposes other than BDAL18 and BDAL19 > >The VAX 4000-400 has a 22 bit Qbus (all slots are Q/CD). So it looks >like this can't work due to the 22 bit bus that uses BC1 and BD1? You need an RLV12. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From swperk at earthlink.net Fri Jul 11 01:40:01 2003 From: swperk at earthlink.net (Stan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: Need help with an Infotek memory card In-Reply-To: <20030621170001.87375.22278.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: Hello, I have an HP 9816S with an Infotek Systems memory card in it. The card is either misconfigured or defective, because I get the classic "memory missing" error on startup. Anyway, I'd like to find out whatever I can about this card, especially the jumper and DIP switch settings. It's the standard HP 9000 Series 200/300 expansion board, with "Infotek Systems AM 210 Memory" silkscreened on the PC board. There is also a label applied to another part of the board that says "AM 242". It has a four position DIP switch that I assume is to set the memory start address, and another set of four 2-position jumpers located adjacent to the DIP switch. It has 32 sets of 22 pin in-line sockets for memory modules, and there are 16 of these sockets populated, each with a module containing four 256 Kbit chips. The modules are paired up, so that sockets 1 and 2 are occupied, 3 and 4 are open, 5 and 6 are occupied, etc. Counting all the bits suggests to me that there are 2 MBytes installed on this board, with room for an additional 2 MBytes. Is Infotek Systems still around? Last I heard, they were in Anaheim, CA, but I can find no listing for them. Any and all help is appreciated! Thanks, Stan From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Jul 11 01:57:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: PDP 8 for over $3000 In-Reply-To: <20030710204006.7344.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001001c34779$2bffdfb0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Kevin Handy wrote: > > What someone needs to design, is a PDP-8 that fits entirely inside of > > a front panel (modern re-creation, not an original one)... > > Patience. One of the goals of the SBC-6120 project is a > toggle-switch front panel. :-) The CPU board is the size of > a postcard. And as if by magic Bob seems to have a proto ... http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/SBC6120_Front_Panel.htm Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jul 11 02:17:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: RLV11 in VAX 4000-400? In-Reply-To: Jochen Kunz "RLV11 in VAX 4000-400?" (Jul 11, 7:50) References: <20030711075036.F327456@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <10307110813.ZM15432@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 11, 7:50, Jochen Kunz wrote: > > Can I use a RLV11 in a VAX 4000-400? > > The pdp11-field-guide.txt says: > RLV11 RLV11 Q RL01/02 disk controller option, consists of > RLV11 modules M8013 and M8014. Q/CD-only option. > RLV11 18-bit DMA only. Caution: uses BC1 and BD1 > RLV11 for purposes other than BDAL18 and BDAL19 > > The VAX 4000-400 has a 22 bit Qbus (all slots are Q/CD). So it looks > like this can't work due to the 22 bit bus that uses BC1 and BD1? The best solution is to use an RLV12. However I vaguely remember seeing somewhere an ECO which involves cutting two tracks, to disconnect the signals the RLV11 puts on the BC1 and BD1 fingers (unless I'm thinking of some other device). That fixes the electrical problem, but whether you can find a VAX OS that knows to only use DMA in the bottom 256K of memory is another matter. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Jul 11 04:10:01 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: Early,Nixdorf personal computer In-Reply-To: <3F09D049.8090204@charter.net> References: <3F09D049.8090204@charter.net> Message-ID: In message <3F09D049.8090204@charter.net> James Rice wrote: > To most of the kids in IT today, anything not a t least a P3 is a > "classic" and they have no clue what to do with it. These are the kids > that are being turned out by the MS certification mills. Heh - don't I know it. I once explained to someone how I could plug my Linux laptop into the network and have the admin passwords in less than ten minutes. Her response was "Yeah, but you've got no reason to do that". I said "But - hypothetically - what if someone really did want to break into the network?". She had no answer... Next inDUHvidual, please! > Last week I > had a newly minted MCSE tell me that the "net" command had been > discontinued with DOS. Heaven help me if I had presented her with a > Unix shell. "This is our UNIX fileserver. It's running ..." "Hey! You can't use UNIX systems on a Windows network! It'll break everything!" "Actually, it works perfectly. As I was saying, it's running SAMBA so we can use it as a fileserver..." "But it'll break everything!" "Excuse me, I'm a fully qualified IT engineer with [n] years experience. You're a newly-hired MCSE. Do you know anything about UNIX?" "Uh, no, but.." "Well, here's a set of UNIX books. Have a quick look through them (especially the 'Ultimate SAMBA Reference') and tell me why 1,000 Windows 2000 systems won't coexist with our $10,000 UNIX server." "Uh....." Microsoft: Spreading misinformation about our competitors since the late 1970s. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ ... Dunno if we'll get that past the CSA und UL 'owever. From jkunz at maja.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Jul 11 04:58:01 2003 From: jkunz at maja.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: RLV11 in VAX 4000-400? In-Reply-To: <10307110813.ZM15432@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <20030711075036.F327456@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <10307110813.ZM15432@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20030711100242.GA31951@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, Jul 11, 2003 at 08:13:01AM +0100, Peter Turnbull wrote: > The best solution is to use an RLV12. Unfortunately I have no RLV12. > However I vaguely remember > seeing somewhere an ECO which involves cutting two tracks, to > disconnect the signals the RLV11 puts on the BC1 and BD1 fingers > (unless I'm thinking of some other device). I can see the two small lines going to BC1 and BD2 on the M8013. Do you know what these signals are used for? If I see this correct, they don't go to the M8014. They just put some signals onto the bus. So some sugery would solve the problem? > That fixes the electrical > problem, but whether you can find a VAX OS that knows to only use DMA > in the bottom 256K of memory is another matter. This would fit to NetBSD. NetBSD uses only one softwareinterface for UniBus and QBus... -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Jul 11 05:07:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: Early,Nixdorf personal computer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, Philip Pemberton wrote: > > "classic" and they have no clue what to do with it. These are the kids > > that are being turned out by the MS certification mills. Hmm. Also, dont underestimate current IT colleges. I am feeling more and more apalled at what they get taught there. JAVA is Programming, WinXP is "OS Design" (sometimes they divert to MacOS 9, it seems) and The PeeCee is Hardware Design & Engineering. I recently slapped one of those "teachers" in the face with an LK201 (yes, it still works - the keyboard, that is) and threatened to take his place for a few months, and teach them REAL technology instead. Guess what? The dork NEVER had done any real programming, never had any serious exposure to OS design, and never even came CLOSE to a piece of open-guts hardware..... *SCARED MODE* > "This is our UNIX fileserver. It's running ..." > "Hey! You can't use UNIX systems on a Windows network! It'll break > everything!" > "Actually, it works perfectly. As I was saying, it's running SAMBA so we can > use it as a fileserver..." > "But it'll break everything!" > "Excuse me, I'm a fully qualified IT engineer with [n] years experience. > You're a newly-hired MCSE. Do you know anything about UNIX?" > "Uh, no, but.." > "Well, here's a set of UNIX books. Have a quick look through them (especially > the 'Ultimate SAMBA Reference') and tell me why 1,000 Windows 2000 systems > won't coexist with our $10,000 UNIX server." > "Uh....." > > Microsoft: Spreading misinformation about our competitors since the late > 1970s. I have been a fully certified MCSE, MCSD and MCSA since 1996. We were never taught that UNIX will bite NT systems or networks, just that it can be awkward to make them talk and/or work together. Which still holds true, although its getting better, thanks to efforts on both sides. And yes, I know "a bit" about UNIX and networking, too. This poor girl (only way I can describe her..) had bad teachers from a probably clueless school/training organization. See my note above on THOSE... The girl can still be rescued, and you did well: expose her to that "scary" (UNIX) stuff, and she'll learn and understand. And forget the crap her (bad) teachers forced her down the, uhh, ok, throat. Cheers, Fred From nedry at mail.bedlambells.com Fri Jul 11 05:38:00 2003 From: nedry at mail.bedlambells.com (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: Early,Nixdorf personal computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030711112741.00bcf700@mail.bedlambells.com> Heh. I have an MCSE, but I didn't go to no school to get it. No sir. I bought the books (and did the job...) I also set up SAMBA (and lots of other linux stuff, with no frigging book... sigh...) Back to my exploration of RSTS/E... anyone know how to make $notice.txt print automatically at logon? Take Care, Mark At 12:03 11/07/2003 +0200, you wrote: >On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, Philip Pemberton wrote: > > > > "classic" and they have no clue what to do with it. These are the kids > > > that are being turned out by the MS certification mills. >Hmm. > >Also, dont underestimate current IT colleges. I am feeling more and >more apalled at what they get taught there. JAVA is Programming, >WinXP is "OS Design" (sometimes they divert to MacOS 9, it seems) >and The PeeCee is Hardware Design & Engineering. > >I recently slapped one of those "teachers" in the face with an LK201 >(yes, it still works - the keyboard, that is) and threatened to take >his place for a few months, and teach them REAL technology instead. > >Guess what? The dork NEVER had done any real programming, never had >any serious exposure to OS design, and never even came CLOSE to a >piece of open-guts hardware..... > >*SCARED MODE* > > > "This is our UNIX fileserver. It's running ..." > > "Hey! You can't use UNIX systems on a Windows network! It'll break > > everything!" > > "Actually, it works perfectly. As I was saying, it's running SAMBA so > we can > > use it as a fileserver..." > > "But it'll break everything!" > > "Excuse me, I'm a fully qualified IT engineer with [n] years experience. > > You're a newly-hired MCSE. Do you know anything about UNIX?" > > "Uh, no, but.." > > "Well, here's a set of UNIX books. Have a quick look through them > (especially > > the 'Ultimate SAMBA Reference') and tell me why 1,000 Windows 2000 systems > > won't coexist with our $10,000 UNIX server." > > "Uh....." > > > > Microsoft: Spreading misinformation about our competitors since the late > > 1970s. >I have been a fully certified MCSE, MCSD and MCSA since 1996. We were >never taught that UNIX will bite NT systems or networks, just that it >can be awkward to make them talk and/or work together. Which still holds >true, although its getting better, thanks to efforts on both sides. > >And yes, I know "a bit" about UNIX and networking, too. > >This poor girl (only way I can describe her..) had bad teachers from a >probably clueless school/training organization. See my note above on >THOSE... > >The girl can still be rescued, and you did well: expose her to that >"scary" (UNIX) stuff, and she'll learn and understand. And forget the >crap her (bad) teachers forced her down the, uhh, ok, throat. > >Cheers, > Fred [---------] "Homer, we don't have to have sex." "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." "Deserts aren't always right Homer." "But they're so delicious." Website: retrobbs.org BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org [---------] From nedry at mail.bedlambells.com Fri Jul 11 05:40:00 2003 From: nedry at mail.bedlambells.com (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: Commodore CBM/PET in Terminator 3 In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030708140243.021c8ef8@mail.bedlambells.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030711113553.00bab838@mail.bedlambells.com> Cool! I'll check that out. Someone in CA is supposed to ship a IMASAI 8080 to my parents house, so I can get them to ship it to the UK. I can't wait... wargames here I come! At 13:23 10/07/2003 -0400, you wrote: >In the Canadian Movie "Trudeau" about the former Canadian Prime minister, >you can spot 3 PETs. One Chicklet PET, a Super PET 9000 and a CBM 8032 with >disk drive. >The production team rented them two years ago from my museum. > >PETs are awesome movie props :) > >Herbert > >on 7/8/03 9:03 AM, Mark Firestone at nedry@mail.bedlambells.com wrote: > > > I haven't seen it yet, but Captain Kirk owns one! Check out Star Trek > > II... in his apartment... > > > > At 08:45 08/07/2003 -0400, you wrote: > >> Anyone else spot that one near the end of the movie? It was one of the > >> 80-column models. > >> Not sure what any of the other "30-year old" computers were. > >> > >> -Frank > > > > [---------] > > "Homer, we don't have to have sex." > > "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." > > "Deserts aren't always right Homer." > > "But they're so delicious." > > > > Website: retrobbs.org > > BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 > > Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org > > [---------] [---------] "Homer, we don't have to have sex." "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." "Deserts aren't always right Homer." "But they're so delicious." Website: retrobbs.org BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org [---------] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jul 11 07:57:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: Need help with an Infotek memory card In-Reply-To: References: <20030621170001.87375.22278.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030711085431.43b7d80a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Stan, Boy are you in luck. It seems that I have the manual for this card (I'll have to find it again). Here's an old message that I posted here on the list a couple of months ago. " Did you ever find out anything about this card, other than the technical description that someone posted? I THOUGHT I might have a manual for it and I went looking for it today but didn't find it. (I'm still looking). However I did find an Infotek manual for a 2Mb memory board for the 9000 200s. It says that Infotek is a division of ALS Corporation and their address was 1400 N Baxter St, Anaheim, California. This manual is dated 1985 so they may or may not still be around but it might help in your search. I think there are several list members in that area, maybe you can get one of them to search locally. I have several Infotech devices including ROMs for the 9825, 9845, a memory card for the HP IPC and a couple of these 2Mb cards for the 9000 200 computers so I'd like to try and track them down too." Joe At 11:35 PM 7/10/03 -0700, you wrote: >Hello, > >I have an HP 9816S with an Infotek Systems memory card in it. The card is >either misconfigured or defective, because I get the classic "memory >missing" error on startup. > >Anyway, I'd like to find out whatever I can about this card, especially the >jumper and DIP switch settings. It's the standard HP 9000 Series 200/300 >expansion board, with "Infotek Systems AM 210 Memory" silkscreened on the PC >board. There is also a label applied to another part of the board that says >"AM 242". > >It has a four position DIP switch that I assume is to set the memory start >address, and another set of four 2-position jumpers located adjacent to the >DIP switch. It has 32 sets of 22 pin in-line sockets for memory modules, and >there are 16 of these sockets populated, each with a module containing four >256 Kbit chips. The modules are paired up, so that sockets 1 and 2 are >occupied, 3 and 4 are open, 5 and 6 are occupied, etc. Counting all the bits >suggests to me that there are 2 MBytes installed on this board, with room >for an additional 2 MBytes. > >Is Infotek Systems still around? Last I heard, they were in Anaheim, CA, but >I can find no listing for them. > >Any and all help is appreciated! > >Thanks, >Stan From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jul 11 10:53:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: Two PDP-11 Related projects. Message-ID: I'm currently working on a pair of projects to reconstruct some data that isn't really available anywhere. The biggest thing I'm attempting to do is collect all of the PDP-11 OS to Layered Products Cross Reference data (this would be found in the SPD's). So far I have information for the following OS's: RSTS/E V7.1, V7.2, V8.0 RSX-11M V4.0, V4.1 RSX-11M-PLUS V2.0, V2.1 RT-11 V4.0, V5.0, V5.4, V5.4d/e/f/g, and V5.5 The result so far is available at http://zane.brouhaha.com/~healyzh/PDP-11_OS_to_Layered_xref.pdf To clarify what I'm talking about by Cross Reference, here is one for some RT-11 Versions. (the rest of the message can be found after this table) RT-11 Software Cross Reference Table This table has been prepared to assist in determining which RT-11 optional software products are supported by Versions 5.4, 5.4d, 5.4e, 5.4f, 5.4g and 5.5 of RT-11. Refer to the appropriate SPD for all other details on a particular product. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ RT-11 (SPD 12.01.xx) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Optional Software SPD No. V5.4 V5.4d V5.4e V5.4f V5.4g V5.5 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ BASIC-PLUS/RT-11 12.05.xx 3.0 3.1 3.1 3.1 3.1 3.2 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ DECnet-RT 10.72.xx 2.1 2.1 2.1 2.1 2.1 2.1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ FMS-11/RT-11 12.22.xx 1.2 1.2 1.2 1.2 1.2 N/A ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ FORTRAN-IV/RT-11 12.10.xx 2.6 2.8 2.8 2.8 2.8 2.8 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ FORTRAN-77/RT-11 A3.55.xx 5.0A 5.0A 5.0A 5.0A 5.0A 5.0A ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ MU BASIC-11/RT-11 12.20.xx 2.2 2.2 N/A N/A N/A N/A ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The following product contains RT-11: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ RT-11 (SPD 12.01.xx) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Optional Software SPD No. V5.4 V5.4d V5.4e V5.4f V5.4g V5.5 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ CTS-300 12.09.xx 8.2 8.2 8.2 8.2 8.2 8.2 Zane RT-11 ---------- OS-11 1972 RT-11 V1 1973 RT-11 V2 1974 RT-11 V2B (date on pack 23-Jul-1975) RT-11 V2C 1976 (date on pack 20-Nov-1975) RT-11 V3 1977 RT-11 V3A RT-11 V3B (maybe 11-Mar-1978) RT-11 V4 February 21st, 1980 RT-11 V4C (maybe 12-Mar-1982) RT-11 V5 March 12th, 1983 RT-11 V5.1 1984 01-Feb-1984 RT-11 V5.2 1985 17-Jun-1985 RT-11 V5.3 1986 20-Dec-1985 RT-11 V5.4 1987 03-Sep-1986 RT-11 V5.4A RT-11 V5.4B RT-11 V5.4C RT-11 V5.4D 17-Nov-1987 RT-11 V5.4E 01-May-1988 RT-11 V5.4F RT-11 V5.4G December, 1988 19-Dec-1988 RT-11 V5.5 October, 1989 31-Oct-1989 RT-11 V5.6 1992 31-Aug-1992 RT-11 V5.7 October, 29th, 1998 RSTS/E --------------- RSTS V6B 1977 RSTS V10.0 July, 1990 RSTS V10.1 September, 1992 RSX-11M --------------- RSX-11M V3.2 ~1979 MicroRSX --------------- 1984 RSX-11M-PLUS --------------- RSX-11M+ V1 1980? DOS-11 --------------- IAS --------------- IAS V1 1977? -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jul 11 11:34:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: Two PDP-11 Related projects. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If anyone has tried to access http://zane.brouhaha.com/~healyzh/PDP-11_OS_to_Layered_xref.pdf in the last 40 minutes and couldn't, you should now be able to. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 11 13:07:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: Early,Nixdorf personal computer In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Jul 11, 3 12:03:15 pm Message-ID: > Also, dont underestimate current IT colleges. I am feeling more and > more apalled at what they get taught there. JAVA is Programming, Oh, don't get me started.... What worries me are the large number of modern books on such subjects that are woefully incomplete. Things like books on hardware (and particularly CPU design) that don't contain a single schematics (let alone a schematic of a complete CPU [1], however simple). Books on operating system internals without a single complete routine (if there's any source code at all). [1] I estimate you could draw out a 4 bit CPU at gate level in under 10 pages... Many years ago, I wanted to understand how a telephone exchange worked (no, not for phreaking, OK). I read many books that claimed to explain it, and came away none the wiser. Nothing seemed to make sesne. It appeared that at last there was an electrical device that I couldn't understand. Then I found a copy of Atkinson's 'Telephony' in a secondhand bookshop. This excellent pair of books gives full circuit diagrams for actual telephone exchanges (well, OK, if a circuit exists times, one for each line, you only get it drawn once). At last everythinh made sense. I could understand what was going on. And I realised then what the problem was. The other books were too simplified. THey missed out important details, and my brain couldn't fill them in. I couldn't make sense of the partial facts in said books... -tony From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jul 11 13:10:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: RLV11 in VAX 4000-400? In-Reply-To: Jochen Kunz "Re: RLV11 in VAX 4000-400?" (Jul 11, 12:02) References: <20030711075036.F327456@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <10307110813.ZM15432@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20030711100242.GA31951@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <10307111906.ZM15728@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 11, 12:02, Jochen Kunz wrote: > I can see the two small lines going to BC1 and BD2 on the M8013. > Do you know what these signals are used for? (You mean BC1 and BD1, not BD2) No, but it's nothing that's used in any normal system. They don't connect to the M8014, nor to anything a standard 18-bit system can access (they're SSPARE4 and SSPARE5 bus lines, normally unused, although the 11/03 and soe contemporary options did put odd signals there). My guess is they're for some manufacturing test, because a quick perusal of the RLV11 Technical Manual didn't tell me anthing either. > If I see this correct, they don't go to the M8014. They just put some > signals onto the bus. So some sugery would solve the problem? The M8013 I just pulled from one of my (22-bit PDP-11) systems has those two tracks cut, and it's been working fine since I've had it (almost 15 years). If you hold the M8013 component side up, with the contact fingers towards you, they're the two thin tracks in the shape of an inverted "L" which come from the 15th and 16th contacts on the third set. They're cut about halfway between the contact finger and the corner of the inverted "L". I've had a look, but I can't find the ECO relating to this. Either my microfiche is too old (quite likely -- it only lists up to CS Rev F and my RLV11 is Rev H) or I saw it somewhere like in one of the Micronotes (which I no longer have, and sadly the ones available online are only a fraction of the total issued). > > That fixes the electrical > > problem, but whether you can find a VAX OS that knows to only use DMA > > in the bottom 256K of memory is another matter. > This would fit to NetBSD. NetBSD uses only one softwareinterface > for UniBus and QBus... Go for it... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jul 11 14:23:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: VCF 6.0 Message-ID: VCF 6.0 October 11-12 Hosted by the Computer History Museum More details forthcoming... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jul 11 16:19:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: Anybody on here do anything with the OLD intel IN-xxxx memories Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030711171617.13c75bb8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found two old Intel memory cards yesterday. They look like the In-7000, IN-1600, In-40 series stuff but are shorter. These are the same width and use the same connector but are only about 61/2" tall instead of 10+ inches. FWIW They use a 100 pin connector that appears to be the same as that used on the S-100 cards but the cards are smaller. These cards are marked "IN 481 Intel 1975" and I don't show them in any of my intel catalogs. They have 4 rows of 8 each C2107C memories (4k x 1 D RAMs). Anybody need them? I doubt I'll ever have a use for them. Joe From allain at panix.com Fri Jul 11 17:22:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: Early,Nixdorf personal computer References: Message-ID: <003201c347fa$399889c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Also, dont underestimate current IT colleges. I am feeling > more and more apalled at what they get taught there. > JAVA is Programming, I guess one ultimate test of suitability is what level (breadth vs depth) of technology would make a person most competitive in the global economy. I'd be interested in how they teach programming in India, Israel and Singapore, for example. John A. From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Jul 11 23:48:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: Old Mac Video Grabber Message-ID: I have an old Ensemble Multibuffer DS-2 for an old Macintosh. This is a 1U rackmount device, capable of grabbing 2 frames with studio quality. I suppose it was neato stuff years ago, and probably cost a mint. Last time I played with it (years ago), it worked fine, but I see no point in keeping it anymore. Anyone need a high end doodad for your classic Mac? I have the buffer, floppies, and even old and "new" EPROMs for the Ethernet, as well as an extra Ethernet board. Everything seems in very nice condition, but as I said, it has been years since I played with it, and I don't have a classic Mac anymore to test it. Any takers at a 20 dollar bill plus shipping? William Donzelli Carmel, NY aw288@osfn.org From cube1 at charter.net Sat Jul 12 12:31:00 2003 From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: RK11-C Panel (Re: M220B (PDP-8/I) schematics available) In-Reply-To: References: <20030710204123.43512.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030712122642.020666f0@cirithi> I think I may have an RK11-C bezel (no lights, just the panel with the silk screen on the front, a fiber back with hole for the lamps. Trouble is, I'm not sure I want to part with it -- someday I'd like to have an RK11-C to go with my RK03's. Jay Jaeger At 10:59 PM 7/10/2003 +0100, you wrote: > > One of these days, I need to get my RK11-C up and working (I have a > > working RK11D that's been used recently - I've had the -C since 1984 > > and haven't ever had the occasion to power it on). > > > > I should probably build a KM-11 clone first. > >You'll need it. Actually, it's useful to have _2_ of them, since there >are a pair of KN11 connectors with different signals on them. > >Does anyone have the full lights panel for the RK11C? It's 144 LEDs or >bulbs that display the I/O registers, etc. I have the panel, but not the >right bezel for the RK11-C (I only have the DX11 bezel...) > >Not particularly useful, but the blinkenlights sure look pretty.... > >-tony --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1@charter.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 12 14:27:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: RK11-C Panel (Re: M220B (PDP-8/I) schematics available) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030712122642.020666f0@cirithi> from "Jay Jaeger" at Jul 12, 3 12:28:55 pm Message-ID: > I think I may have an RK11-C bezel (no lights, just the panel with the silk > screen on the front, a fiber back with hole for the lamps. > > Trouble is, I'm not sure I want to part with it -- someday I'd like to have > an RK11-C to go with my RK03's. Oh, I wasn't expected to find one here. In fact it's not somethign I _need_ -- the LEDs are just as pretty without the right bezel. And yes, you do want to find an RK11C. It's one of the more 'interesting' units to repair that I've come across.... -tony From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Jul 12 17:15:01 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: RLV11 in VAX 4000-400? In-Reply-To: <10307111906.ZM15728@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>; from pete@dunnington.u-net.com on Fri, Jul 11, 2003 at 20:06:29 CEST References: <20030711075036.F327456@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <10307110813.ZM15432@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20030711100242.GA31951@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <10307111906.ZM15728@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20030712235720.J327456@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.07.11 20:06 Peter Turnbull wrote: > > If I see this correct, they don't go to the M8014. They just put > > some signals onto the bus. So some sugery would solve the problem? > > The M8013 I just pulled from one of my (22-bit PDP-11) systems has > those two tracks cut, and it's been working fine since I've had it > (almost 15 years). I did the cutting and it works. It looks like the NetBSD RL02 driver suffers a bit from bitrot, but I was able to transfer data from and to the disk. I didn't like the modification but I needed a quick solution as I am using this VAX with a 9 track tape and the RL02 as exhibition object at the BSD booth at the LinuxTag fair. It is really nice to see the big eyes of these PeeCee folks when they look at this VAX with great unbelive... :-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From waltje at pdp11.nl Sat Jul 12 17:34:01 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: RLV11 in VAX 4000-400? In-Reply-To: <20030712235720.J327456@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Jul 2003, Jochen Kunz wrote: > object at the BSD booth at the LinuxTag fair. It is really nice to see > the big eyes of these PeeCee folks when they look at this VAX with great > unbelive... :-) Yeah... kinda like their looks when I point at one of my walls, and show them the DL11-E (with 1ft cable) ... that used to be the console port of my mourned 11/10. When I explain to the gasping people that this ("whole thing") is "the serial port", they tend to ask "so, how many terminals could you then connect to that board? 8 or 16 or so?" *evil laugh* --fred From marvin at rain.org Sat Jul 12 17:43:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: PDP-8E Message-ID: <3F108E06.5AAB5034@rain.org> We had our annual ham club Electronic Bazaar today, and while browsing around, I found a PDP-8E sitting there sans cards but with power supply and backplane. I hadn't planned on collecting DEC stuff any more, but it was too good to pass up. Now to check out the power supply, put it together and see if I can find a set of cards for it! Lots of other computer junque including a number of older computers. The remnants are sitting on a trailer in the back yard, and I should get a chance to check it out tomorrow! ------------------------------------------- ebaY's Security Breach and Coverup http://www.auctionguild.com/generic110.html SellYourItem.com - Your Member Driven Auction Community! http://www.sellyouritem.com From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Sat Jul 12 22:23:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: IMSAI 8080 Classic Microcomputer System Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030712231723.00a58160@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> IMSAI 8080 Classic Microcomputer System http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2741173742 From patrick at evocative.com Sat Jul 12 22:47:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: Trade Please: Space is at a premium! Message-ID: OK, it's time for me to get rid of some things I've been keeping for too long, and rather than go directly to eBay (some of you will appreciate the irony of this move in coming weeks), I was wondering if any among you would be willing to trade some vintage items for some mixed modern/vintage stuff... I have the following to offer (individually or in combination): * Cisco 2524 router w/FT1/T1 CSU/DSU (IOS 11.2) * Cisco 2524 router w/FT1/T1 CSU/DSU (yes, I have two of these) * Wyse 50 terminal, in nice shape except for broken F1 key (included) * DEC VT320 terminal, working, amber screen, MMJ * Cisco Catalyst 2100 Switch (24 port 10-BaseT + 2 100MB uplink) * 3Com Linkbuilder FMS-II 12-port 10-BaseT managed hub (rack mountable) * 3Com LinkBuilder TP/12 12-port 10-BaseT unmanaged hub (desktop) 3C16170 * Asante 10T Hub/8 mini-hub (10Base-T, good-sized wall-wart power supply) * Panasonic KX-P1150 dot matrix printer (parallel interface) * Dell OptiPlex GMT 5133, Pentium 133, 32MB RAM, 4GB HD (mini tower case) * Dell OptiPlex GX/Pro Pentium 200 MMX unknown RAM, Adaptec 1522B SCSI + 4GB drive (desktop case) * Dell Dimension XPS/D300 w/160MB RAM, no hard drive (desktop case) * Apple Macintosh SE/30 w/500MB HD, System 7.6 installed (kbd, no mouse; case cracker included :-)) * Sun SparcStation 20 (condition unknown, but working when pulled; no drives now; possible frame buffer--anyone know how to tell for sure?) * HP 7550A plotter (A and B size, with carousel, working, serial + GPIB) * Iomega Bernoulli Box CDS-PC/20 (dual Bernoulli drives; case identical to old IBM PC XT; no controller or media) * IBM 2.10 DOS manual (only, binder w/slide box cover in very good condition, but no disks) * Heathkit H-9 Terminal Assembly Manual (like new; sorry no schematic) * SupraModem 2400 + power supply + docs * Intel 80522PX300512EC Pentium II 300Mhz MMX processor (spare) I also have the following items for Atari ST systems, but alas, no ST to test them with: * Atari MegaFile 30 hard disk (no cable; it has a diskette with it that I assume is driver and/or tools; spins up and makes healthy noises, but that's all I can do with it) * Atari SF314 floppy drive (no power supply) * Original Atari ST Computer Owner's Manual * Original Atari ST BASIC Sourcebook and Tutorial (manual) * MonitorMaster monitor switch for Atari 520/1040 (switchbox w/cable) * ComputerEyes Video Digitizer for Atari 1040 (expansion box w/composite video input + diskette) * Navarone ST Sound Digitizer for Atari 1040 (maybe 520? original carton, expansion box + diskette) * As a bundle, assorted software and games, includes: - Word Perfect for Atarai ST (disks only) * Timeworks Data Manager with Report Writer & Super Graphics for Atari 1040ST (original box + disk + docs) - Leisure Suit Larry in the Land of the Lounge Lizards for Atari ST (original box + disk + manuals and inserts) - Aliants for Atari ST (1987, StarSoft Development Labs, game disk + hint disk), includes Pirates of the Barbary Coast (jacks + disks) - Ray Tobey's SkyFox for Atari ST (jacket + disks) - Accolade Test Drive for Atari ST (exotic car driving game, requires color; original box + disks) - Easel/ST for Atari ST (diskette only, says "Use any picture as the background on the GEM desktop"--whoo hoo... stop 'em before they kill again folks) - Smooth Talker speech synthesizer for Atari ST (requires color monitor and TOS in ROM; original box + manual + disk) - ColorBurst 3000 for Atari 520/1040ST (requires color monitor; GEM graphics enhancer; does not work with Mega ST ROMs) Now, I need/would like the following items: * SWTPC DC-4 Floppy Drive Controller * SWTPC MF-68 Diskette subsystem (missing drives OK) * SS-50 and SS-30 prototyping cards * Heath/Zenith H-77 or H-87 external drive enclosure (missing drives OK) * Vintage-era floppy drive enclosure for 5-1/4" full height drives--I need one two-drive enclosure, preferably metal, with power supply; two single-drive enclosures would be OK; specifically anything similar to this http://www.bowkera.com/north_star_computers.htm (single enclosure) or this http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/MF_68/MF_68_Index.htm (dual enclosure, preferred); * Any unusual expansion board for the Heath/Zenith H/Z-88/89/90 (particularly third-party stuff, graphics, clock, etc.) * Any peripheral for the Rockwell AIM-65 (especially floppy controller) * ETA-3400 expansion unit for the Heathkit ET-3400 trainer * KIM-1 peripherals and expansion * Triple-output digital bench power supply, current limiting + short protection Please contact me OFF LIST if you'd like to arrange a trade at (patrick)(at)(evocative)(dot)(com). I am happy to publish pictures of any item. Offers for outright purchase of any item will be gladly entertained, but priority will be given to traders, so non-trade purchase offers will be held until Sunday 27-Jul. Patrick From bob at jfcl.com Sat Jul 12 23:01:00 2003 From: bob at jfcl.com (Bob Armstrong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: Tymshare model ASR-33s?? Message-ID: <03071220514212@jfcl.com> Has anybody ever seen a special Tymshare model ASR-33? It's more or less a standard ASR-33, except that it has a three button CCU and the silver plate on the front (the one which would ordinarily have the Teletype name and logo) is painted blue (DECsystem-10 blue, I would imagine!) and lettered "Tymshare | Time Sharing Terminal." The CCU has three rectangular buttons marked "COMP", "LCL" and "OFF". Any data on what this CCU does? I'd like to modify the ASR for DEC compatible service (which should be easy enough), but I'd like to keep as much of this CCU as I can. It also doesn't have the reader power supply that's usually clipped on inside the pedestal, so I'd guess that it's part of the CCU. Another reason to keep the CCU if I can. Oh - and it also has the cutest little 4W fluorescent tube inside the paper cover to illuminate the printout. There's a ballast and a standard glow type starter inside the CCU. Thanks, Bob Armstrong From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sun Jul 13 00:21:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: IMSAI 8080 Classic Microcomputer System In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030712231723.00a58160@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <000001c348fe$066d8640$947ba8c0@p933> I saw that one. The seller appears to have the history of microcomputers a bit skewed (depending on how you define "reasonable numbers" for sales figures) but he's better then others who advertise the IMSAI as having the same buss as the IBM PC or, better yet, as being multibus items (which is a recent or current auction, iirc) Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mail List Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 8:19 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: IMSAI 8080 Classic Microcomputer System IMSAI 8080 Classic Microcomputer System http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2741173742 From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jul 13 10:58:01 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: IMSAI 8080 Classic Microcomputer System References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030712231723.00a58160@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <3F1180D2.60905@tiac.net> Mail List wrote: > IMSAI 8080 Classic Microcomputer System > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2741173742 > I'll go one better than this... I'm going to sell my Imsai 8080, but I don't want to ship it. I'd prefer a 'local' buyer to come see the machine and carry it away after verifying it's operational, etc. This Imsai is located in central Massachusetts, about 1 1/2 hour west of Boston. This is not an eBay sale. This is a machine that needs to go to a 'good home', like a list member. The machine... Is a stock Imsai 8080 with its original CPU (C8080A in the gold on white package). It is tested and operational. Cosmetic condition is very good, with only minor scratches to the top cover. All switches are good, and it has a full (22-slot?) set of backplanes installed. The memory... Currently there is 40K of (working) SRAM installed in the following configuration: Two 4K byte SSM (Solid State Music) RAM boards with gold on white ceramic 2102's (soldered in). One 8K Ithaca Audio 1A 1110 Rev B RAM board. One 8K Ithaca Audio RAM board with no revision markings, socketed RAM chips. One DRC 8K RAM board, no model or revision markings, socketed RAM chips. Two PTCO 4KRA RAM boards (soldered in). One S-100 extender board. The I/O boards... One Tarbell 1011D FDC. One SSM IO-4 board, 2 serial ports, 2 parallel input ports, 2 parallel output ports. Extra stuff not installed in the machine (untested)... One Canada Peripherals CL2400 Real Time Clock. One ThinkerToys Disk Jockey 1. One Compuprisim color video display board (16K DRAM). Three Solid State Music audio synthesizer boards. Known non-functional memory boards... One 8K SRAM board, marked "F. Duston 1977". Two PTCO 4K SRAM boards. One Vector 8800V prototyping board, unused. Peripherals and Software... Two Sugart 8-inch floppy disk drives in an external chassis with power supply. Several boxes of 8-inch floppy disks with CP/M 1.4 and assorted software. While the CP/M disks are included this machine IS NOT running CP/M! The reason being, when I got the machine (from the original builder) the I/O board had been removed, and the DIP switch settings changed. I don't know the correct configuration settings for the BIOS, and I don't currently have enough memory installed to boot all of the CP/M builds (48K being the most common label on the system disks). Documentation... I beleive that all the documentation is present. Many manuals for the Imsai chassis, as well as for the various memory and I/O boards are present. Testing performed... I have run this Imsai and verified the CPU and memory are operational. I have also entered the floppy disk test programs from the Tarbell controller manual and verfied its ability to read and write sectors to drive 0. Also the Tarbell bootstrap works correctly. I have also written simple test routines to send and receive serial data from the console serial port. In short, this thing works just fine. Terms and Conditions... Physically come and see the machine and documentation, and if its state is acceptable, pay cash and carry it away. I'll supply my own box of tissues and try not to cry uncontrollably as you drive away. Once the machine is accepted, there is no warranty and I'm not really able to help the buyer get this machine running CP/M. The Machine's history... This Imsai was built by a former co-worker. He used it to learn programming, experiment with electronic music, and to keep records for his bowling league (from looking at his disk labels anyway). The machine was placed into storage when he went off to college (around the time of the modern PC's introduction). On his return, the machine was well behind the state of the art, and it never returned to service. The machine came to me directly from the closet of his parents' home. As I was bringing the machine up, it suffered a failure of a bridge rectifier diode, and was repaired with new diodes with a more appropriate PIV rating for the application. This repair is not visible. All the power supply capacitors are original, and meet their capacitance and leakage specs. With a rather low number of total operational hours, the interior of the machine is much much cleaner than would be expected of this vintage. I've had the machine for the last 5 years. Reason for Sale... I've wanted an Imsai since reading the ads in Popular Electronics back when I was in Jr. High School. Several years ago I got this machine from its original builder (who did a very reasonable job). In the years that I've owned the machine, I have not found or made the time to get this machine into its proper state, and I'm failing to do it justice. Much of my classic computer time is going into my HP machines, and my Imlac as well. I just have not found the time to conserve this machine properly, I lack the low-level CP/M knowledge needed to build or tweak the existing O/S into a working state, nor do I have another CP/M system to build a CP/M 2.2 disk for it. So in the painful process of focusing my collection and classic computing efforts on my HP 1000's (and Imlac), I'm going to part with my treasured Imsai. Now then, this leaves only one more detail... The Price... $1,250.00 USD. Cash and carry. Location is Leominster MA. Good homes only need apply. Here's your chance to get a 'complete' Imsai system for the price some CPU chassis go for without drives and extras. Skip the eBay rat-race of last minute sniping and get that instant gratification of a simple, direct purchase! Got Blinkenlights? If not, buy a real classic. If this is the Imsai for you, please email me off list at: bshannon@tiac.net From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Sun Jul 13 11:10:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:48 2005 Subject: IMSAI 8080 Classic Microcomputer System In-Reply-To: <3F1180D2.60905@tiac.net> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030712231723.00a58160@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030713120327.00a4b170@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Bob, That's a lot of stuff. Post some pictures if you can. Best Regards At 11:54 AM 7/13/03 -0400, you wrote: >Mail List wrote: > >>IMSAI 8080 Classic Microcomputer System >> >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2741173742 >I'll go one better than this... > >I'm going to sell my Imsai 8080, but I don't want to ship it. I'd prefer >a 'local' buyer to come see the machine and carry it away >after verifying it's operational, etc. This Imsai is located in central >Massachusetts, about 1 1/2 hour west of Boston. > >This is not an eBay sale. This is a machine that needs to go to a 'good >home', like a list member. > >The machine... > >Is a stock Imsai 8080 with its original CPU (C8080A in the gold on white >package). It is tested and operational. >Cosmetic condition is very good, with only minor scratches to the top >cover. All switches are good, and it has a full >(22-slot?) set of backplanes installed. > >The memory... > >Currently there is 40K of (working) SRAM installed in the following >configuration: > >Two 4K byte SSM (Solid State Music) RAM boards with gold on white ceramic >2102's (soldered in). >One 8K Ithaca Audio 1A 1110 Rev B RAM board. >One 8K Ithaca Audio RAM board with no revision markings, socketed RAM chips. >One DRC 8K RAM board, no model or revision markings, socketed RAM chips. >Two PTCO 4KRA RAM boards (soldered in). >One S-100 extender board. > >The I/O boards... > >One Tarbell 1011D FDC. >One SSM IO-4 board, 2 serial ports, 2 parallel input ports, 2 parallel >output ports. > >Extra stuff not installed in the machine (untested)... > >One Canada Peripherals CL2400 Real Time Clock. >One ThinkerToys Disk Jockey 1. >One Compuprisim color video display board (16K DRAM). >Three Solid State Music audio synthesizer boards. > >Known non-functional memory boards... > >One 8K SRAM board, marked "F. Duston 1977". >Two PTCO 4K SRAM boards. >One Vector 8800V prototyping board, unused. > >Peripherals and Software... > >Two Sugart 8-inch floppy disk drives in an external chassis with power supply. > >Several boxes of 8-inch floppy disks with CP/M 1.4 and assorted >software. While the CP/M disks are included >this machine IS NOT running CP/M! The reason being, when I got the >machine (from the original builder) the >I/O board had been removed, and the DIP switch settings changed. I don't >know the correct configuration settings >for the BIOS, and I don't currently have enough memory installed to boot >all of the CP/M builds (48K being the >most common label on the system disks). > >Documentation... > >I beleive that all the documentation is present. Many manuals for the >Imsai chassis, as well as for the various memory >and I/O boards are present. > >Testing performed... > >I have run this Imsai and verified the CPU and memory are operational. I >have also entered the floppy disk test programs >from the Tarbell controller manual and verfied its ability to read and >write sectors to drive 0. Also the Tarbell bootstrap >works correctly. > >I have also written simple test routines to send and receive serial data >from the console serial port. In short, this thing works >just fine. > >Terms and Conditions... > >Physically come and see the machine and documentation, and if its state is >acceptable, pay cash and carry it away. I'll supply >my own box of tissues and try not to cry uncontrollably as you drive >away. Once the machine is accepted, there is no warranty >and I'm not really able to help the buyer get this machine running CP/M. > >The Machine's history... > >This Imsai was built by a former co-worker. He used it to learn >programming, experiment with electronic music, and to >keep records for his bowling league (from looking at his disk labels >anyway). The machine was placed into storage when >he went off to college (around the time of the modern PC's >introduction). On his return, the machine was well behind the >state of the art, and it never returned to service. > >The machine came to me directly from the closet of his parents' home. As I >was bringing the machine up, it suffered a failure >of a bridge rectifier diode, and was repaired with new diodes with a more >appropriate PIV rating for the application. This >repair is not visible. All the power supply capacitors are original, and >meet their capacitance and leakage specs. > >With a rather low number of total operational hours, the interior of the >machine is much much cleaner than would be expected >of this vintage. > >I've had the machine for the last 5 years. > >Reason for Sale... > >I've wanted an Imsai since reading the ads in Popular Electronics back >when I was in Jr. High School. Several years ago I got >this machine from its original builder (who did a very reasonable job). In >the years that I've owned the machine, I have not found >or made the time to get this machine into its proper state, and I'm >failing to do it justice. Much of my classic computer time is >going into my HP machines, and my Imlac as well. > >I just have not found the time to conserve this machine properly, I lack >the low-level CP/M knowledge needed to build or tweak >the existing O/S into a working state, nor do I have another CP/M system >to build a CP/M 2.2 disk for it. > >So in the painful process of focusing my collection and classic computing >efforts on my HP 1000's (and Imlac), I'm going to part >with my treasured Imsai. > >Now then, this leaves only one more detail... > >The Price... > >$1,250.00 USD. Cash and carry. Location is Leominster MA. > >Good homes only need apply. Here's your chance to get a 'complete' Imsai >system for the price some CPU chassis >go for without drives and extras. Skip the eBay rat-race of last minute >sniping and get that instant gratification of a >simple, direct purchase! > >Got Blinkenlights? If not, buy a real classic. > >If this is the Imsai for you, please email me off list at: > >bshannon@tiac.net From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jul 13 11:18:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:49 2005 Subject: IMSAI 8080 Classic Microcomputer System References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030712231723.00a58160@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030713120327.00a4b170@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <3F11857C.9030603@tiac.net> I don't have a easy place to post them, but I can make some very large, high quality photos and email them to interested persons. I don't have a simple digital camera, but I do have a digital-8 video camera and a Media 100 editing system, so I can (with mild pain) digitize some video and export through Media Cleaner Pro. Mail List wrote: > Hello Bob, > > That's a lot of stuff. Post some pictures if you can. > > Best Regards From esharpe at uswest.net Sun Jul 13 13:36:00 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:49 2005 Subject: IMSAI 8080 Classic Microcomputer System References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030712231723.00a58160@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3F1180D2.60905@tiac.net> Message-ID: <012801c3496d$0bed4d70$0100a8c0@SONYDIGITALED> here is another pic of when we ran 2000 system long ago! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Shannon" To: Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 8:54 AM Subject: Re: IMSAI 8080 Classic Microcomputer System > Mail List wrote: > > > IMSAI 8080 Classic Microcomputer System > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2741173742 > > > I'll go one better than this... > > I'm going to sell my Imsai 8080, but I don't want to ship it. I'd > prefer a 'local' buyer to come see the machine and carry it away > after verifying it's operational, etc. This Imsai is located in central > Massachusetts, about 1 1/2 hour west of Boston. > > This is not an eBay sale. This is a machine that needs to go to a 'good > home', like a list member. > > The machine... > > Is a stock Imsai 8080 with its original CPU (C8080A in the gold on white > package). It is tested and operational. > Cosmetic condition is very good, with only minor scratches to the top > cover. All switches are good, and it has a full > (22-slot?) set of backplanes installed. > > The memory... > > Currently there is 40K of (working) SRAM installed in the following > configuration: > > Two 4K byte SSM (Solid State Music) RAM boards with gold on white > ceramic 2102's (soldered in). > One 8K Ithaca Audio 1A 1110 Rev B RAM board. > One 8K Ithaca Audio RAM board with no revision markings, socketed RAM chips. > One DRC 8K RAM board, no model or revision markings, socketed RAM chips. > Two PTCO 4KRA RAM boards (soldered in). > One S-100 extender board. > > The I/O boards... > > One Tarbell 1011D FDC. > One SSM IO-4 board, 2 serial ports, 2 parallel input ports, 2 parallel > output ports. > > Extra stuff not installed in the machine (untested)... > > One Canada Peripherals CL2400 Real Time Clock. > One ThinkerToys Disk Jockey 1. > One Compuprisim color video display board (16K DRAM). > Three Solid State Music audio synthesizer boards. > > Known non-functional memory boards... > > One 8K SRAM board, marked "F. Duston 1977". > Two PTCO 4K SRAM boards. > One Vector 8800V prototyping board, unused. > > Peripherals and Software... > > Two Sugart 8-inch floppy disk drives in an external chassis with power > supply. > > Several boxes of 8-inch floppy disks with CP/M 1.4 and assorted > software. While the CP/M disks are included > this machine IS NOT running CP/M! The reason being, when I got the > machine (from the original builder) the > I/O board had been removed, and the DIP switch settings changed. I > don't know the correct configuration settings > for the BIOS, and I don't currently have enough memory installed to boot > all of the CP/M builds (48K being the > most common label on the system disks). > > Documentation... > > I beleive that all the documentation is present. Many manuals for the > Imsai chassis, as well as for the various memory > and I/O boards are present. > > Testing performed... > > I have run this Imsai and verified the CPU and memory are operational. > I have also entered the floppy disk test programs > from the Tarbell controller manual and verfied its ability to read and > write sectors to drive 0. Also the Tarbell bootstrap > works correctly. > > I have also written simple test routines to send and receive serial data > from the console serial port. In short, this thing works > just fine. > > Terms and Conditions... > > Physically come and see the machine and documentation, and if its state > is acceptable, pay cash and carry it away. I'll supply > my own box of tissues and try not to cry uncontrollably as you drive > away. Once the machine is accepted, there is no warranty > and I'm not really able to help the buyer get this machine running CP/M. > > The Machine's history... > > This Imsai was built by a former co-worker. He used it to learn > programming, experiment with electronic music, and to > keep records for his bowling league (from looking at his disk labels > anyway). The machine was placed into storage when > he went off to college (around the time of the modern PC's > introduction). On his return, the machine was well behind the > state of the art, and it never returned to service. > > The machine came to me directly from the closet of his parents' home. > As I was bringing the machine up, it suffered a failure > of a bridge rectifier diode, and was repaired with new diodes with a > more appropriate PIV rating for the application. This > repair is not visible. All the power supply capacitors are original, > and meet their capacitance and leakage specs. > > With a rather low number of total operational hours, the interior of the > machine is much much cleaner than would be expected > of this vintage. > > I've had the machine for the last 5 years. > > Reason for Sale... > > I've wanted an Imsai since reading the ads in Popular Electronics back > when I was in Jr. High School. Several years ago I got > this machine from its original builder (who did a very reasonable job). > In the years that I've owned the machine, I have not found > or made the time to get this machine into its proper state, and I'm > failing to do it justice. Much of my classic computer time is > going into my HP machines, and my Imlac as well. > > I just have not found the time to conserve this machine properly, I lack > the low-level CP/M knowledge needed to build or tweak > the existing O/S into a working state, nor do I have another CP/M system > to build a CP/M 2.2 disk for it. > > So in the painful process of focusing my collection and classic > computing efforts on my HP 1000's (and Imlac), I'm going to part > with my treasured Imsai. > > Now then, this leaves only one more detail... > > The Price... > > $1,250.00 USD. Cash and carry. Location is Leominster MA. > > Good homes only need apply. Here's your chance to get a 'complete' > Imsai system for the price some CPU chassis > go for without drives and extras. Skip the eBay rat-race of last minute > sniping and get that instant gratification of a > simple, direct purchase! > > Got Blinkenlights? If not, buy a real classic. > > If this is the Imsai for you, please email me off list at: > > bshannon@tiac.net [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of hp2000_1.jpg] From allain at panix.com Sun Jul 13 18:28:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:49 2005 Subject: IMSAI 8080 Classic Microcomputer System References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030712231723.00a58160@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030713120327.00a4b170@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <3F11857C.9030603@tiac.net> Message-ID: <002201c34995$ae6c6540$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > I don't have a easy place to post them, but > I can make some very large, high quality photos > and email them to interested persons. I can host your pictures for at least a month if they don't generate too many thousand hits. Include me in your emails. John A. From root at parse.com Sun Jul 13 18:50:01 2003 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:49 2005 Subject: M220B (PDP-8/I) schematics available In-Reply-To: <20030708145917.40479.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 08, 2003 07:59:17 AM Message-ID: <200307100054.UAA22987@parse.com> Ethan Dicks sez... > > --- Jim Davis wrote: > > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > >That's been my experience, too. I have replaced as many as 8 7474s > > >at a go to get an -8/L back on its feet. I don't recall replacing > > >any other chip, as a matter of fact. > > > > > >-ethan > > > > > 7474's Dead d flops? whats the story on that? > > Jim > > Dunno. I can say categorically that they were failed chips. They > did not pass muster in a handheld TTL tester, and when replaced, > the PDP-8/L worked. > > There was a mention on the list of a batch of 7440s that failed in > another M-series machine (might or might not have been an -8/L) > with the same date code. > > Not sure why 7474s from the mid-to-late 1960s would be more fragile > than, say, 7400s. Perhaps the flipping and the flopping wears them > out faster than anding and oring? :-) :-) In my case, the failure modes were as follows: 2 chips failed with: grounding the PRESET line caused the Q to go high as expected, but when PRESET was left floating Q went low. [DEC leaves the PRESET and CLEAR lines floating on various modules, so I consider this a fair test]. 1 chip failed with insufficient +5 on the Q (or bar-Q, forget right at this instant) output. The measured output was something like 1.6V. Like Ethan sez, when these chips were replaced, things got better. I think the "reason" might be that these chips were pushing the edge of semiconductor manufacturing technology -- they are certainly one of the more complicated chips from the early 74xx (all 14-pin only :-)) era. That's my theory... Cheers, -RK -- Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! From root at parse.com Sun Jul 13 18:51:33 2003 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:49 2005 Subject: TIFF to PDF (slightly OT, but for a good cause :-)) Message-ID: <200307100100.VAA09995@parse.com> I have the chance to pay some money and get my 17x22" PDP-8/I schematics scanned, but they only offer TIFF output. These will be scanned in 400 DPI mode and put on the web. These are a newer revision than the ones posted on the web. What I'd *really* like to do is convert them from TIFF to PDF and bind them into multi-page PDFs instead of the one-per-page TIFF files that I'll get from the scanning house. Any volunteers? Suggestions for *free* software than runs on FreeBSD or, worst case, Windoze? Cheers, -RK -- Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! From mypage at comcast.net Sun Jul 13 18:52:59 2003 From: mypage at comcast.net (Page Carter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:49 2005 Subject: Hard sector disks Message-ID: <000501c34693$89953620$3f1de50c@attbi.com> Patrick Rigney: I found your name on the internet in regard to your having a 5.25" Hard sector Drive. I have a large collection of old hard sector disks. most of which have programs or data files on them but could likely be reused. However, I have about 20 disks that have data (compiled in CP/M) on them that I would like to get copied to a more contemporary medium. Do you have the capability to make such a transfer and, if so, would you be willing to do that for me and, if so, at what cost? Thank you, Page Carter 620 Central Street SE Olympia, WA 98501 360-701-9919 mypage@attbi.com From techno at videotron.ca Sun Jul 13 18:54:26 2003 From: techno at videotron.ca (Doug Taylor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:49 2005 Subject: Old Word Processors Message-ID: Hi guys.... I like that reference to edlin by Joe.... Now that was some pain in the ass WP.... 8*) How about Multimate for DOS.... I used it for years, it was great! I think I'm getting OLD 8*) Doug Taylor PS: Hey Joe I still got my MDS 825 in the basement 8*) -- =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ D E A D O N A R R I V A L B B S telnet://doabbs.dynip.com http://www.dsuper.net/~techno From monkeypox2003 at msn.com Sun Jul 13 18:55:56 2003 From: monkeypox2003 at msn.com (Mark Adams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:49 2005 Subject: WTB Outbound Laptop Message-ID: Looking to buy the class Outbound laptop Mac clone, the one with the IR keyboard. Please reply to me at: monkeypox2003@msn.com. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Jul 13 18:57:23 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:49 2005 Subject: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? In-Reply-To: <3F0B45D2.14920.1535D7AC@localhost> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Hans Franke > Sent: 08 July 2003 21:30 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? > > Now, for the question it's rather where did you buy the machine? It came from a yard sale in Cape May, New Jersey..... > Since the Printer is 240 I assume in Europe. In the late 70s a lot > of machines got directly imported and the people used step down > transformers to operate them - Often dealers even managed to sell > these beasts to customers when the original PSU was switchable to > 220 and so maxing the profit :) That's a possibility I guess; switch the PSU in the machine and step-up for the printer? We may never know :) -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From c.morris at townsqr.com Sun Jul 13 18:58:51 2003 From: c.morris at townsqr.com (Dr. Charles E. Morris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:49 2005 Subject: dead PDP-8 TTL chips References: <20030710170000.67858.37163.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <00a501c34706$b8ee80c0$0801a8c0@OZWD004> >That's been my experience, too. I have replaced as many as 8 7474s >at a go to get an -8/L back on its feet. I don't recall replacing >any other chip, as a matter of fact. > >-ethan Remember earlier this winter when I was restoring my 8/L, I had one or two bad 7474's but EVERY 7440 with date code 7005 was bad! -Charles ps still looking for someone to help with my ASR33 tape reader error rate, so I can finish revising my DF32x4 NVRAM project. From mrholmes at email.com Sun Jul 13 19:00:19 2003 From: mrholmes at email.com (Mr Holmes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:49 2005 Subject: wweng2.sys for decserver 700 Message-ID: <20030711043921.4306.qmail@email.com> Hello, I am hoping that you have an image file for decserver700 named wweng2.sys. I could really use a copy of this. Another thing that would help is Digital's ASL (Access Server Loader), the (windows) software for tftping above image to device. Any help would be greatly appreciated mrholmes@email.com -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup CareerBuilder.com has over 400,000 jobs. Be smarter about your job search http://corp.mail.com/careers From cvendel at att.net Sun Jul 13 19:01:48 2003 From: cvendel at att.net (cvendel@att.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:49 2005 Subject: Connecting an RM05 to a Qbus Message-ID: <200307111441.h6BEfRZ76555@huey.classiccmp.org> Is there an adapter or converter to connect an RMxx drive to a Vax 4000's Qbus??? I can only find references to the Massbus controller and it was meant for the 700 series unibus. I really don't have the room to add yet another device (like an 11/780!!!), especially with an RM05 washing machine being added, so I would much rather utilize my trusty Vax 4000 that I already have several other devices hooked into. Thanks. Curt > Send cctech mailing list submissions to > cctech@classiccmp.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > cctech-request@classiccmp.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > cctech-admin@classiccmp.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of cctech digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: iUP-201 PC software (Dave Mabry) > 2. Re: Kinda OT: DEC 3000 Model 300 AXP Memory (Zane H. Healy) > 3. RE: Teh over priced Mark-8/IBM 5100 is back (Kane, David (DPRS)) > 4. Re: Replacement CFX-200 Buttons (Fred Cisin) > 5. Looking for Digital Channel Server II (DESNB) (Eric Dittman) > 6. Kinda OT: DEC 3000 Model 300 AXP Memory (Roger Merchberger) > 7. Re: M220B (PDP-8/I) schematics available (Ethan Dicks) > 8. Re: M220B (PDP-8/I) schematics available (Jim Davis) > 9. RE: Older wordprocessing software (Evan R. Pauley) > 10. Re: Kinda OT: DEC 3000 Model 300 AXP Memory (Doc) > 11. RE: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? (Witchy) > 12. Re: Kinda OT: DEC 3000 Model 300 AXP Memory (Jochen Kunz) > 13. Re: Older wordprocessing software (Jochen Kunz) > 14. re: Older wordprocessing software (Eric F.) > 15. Re: iUP-201 PC software (Joe) > 16. TI 990 Page and simulator (James B. DiGriz) > 17. re: Older wordprocessing software (Gene Ehrich) > 18. Commodore CBM/PET in Terminator 3 (Frank Palazzolo) > 19. Re: Commodore CBM/PET in Terminator 3 (Mark Firestone) > 20. Re: Older wordprocessing software (Bryan Pope) > 21. RE: Older wordprocessing software (Feldman, Robert) > 22. Re: Older wordprocessing software (Gene Ehrich) > 23. Re: Older wordprocessing software (Jay West) > 24. Re: M220B (PDP-8/I) schematics available (Ethan Dicks) > 25. Wanted: RL02 Working... (cvendel@att.net) > 26. Re: Older wordprocessing software (Fred Cisin) > 27. Items available (Bradley, Joel E -Syntegra US) > 28. American Automation EZ-Pro development system (Arlen Michaels) > 29. Kontron LA 32A hard drive? (Tom Owad) > 30. Re: American Automation EZ-Pro development system (Douglas Wood) > 31. RE: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? (Hans Franke) > 32. RE: Kinda OT: DEC 3000 Model 300 AXP Memory (Antonio Carlini) > 33. SCSI bit-banging (emanuel stiebler) > 34. Re: M220B (PDP-8/I) schematics available (Bob Shannon) > 35. Re: American Automation EZ-Pro development system (Arlen Michaels) > 36. New Finds: SWTPC :-) (Joe) > 37. /35 /40/ 45 ? (Rod Young) > 38. Re: Looking for new maintainer for DECVAX.ORG and PDP11.ORG (Mark Tapley) > 39. Re: /35 /40/ 45 ? (Zane H. Healy) > 40. Re: /35 /40/ 45 ? (Jay West) > 41. Re: Commodore CBM/PET in Terminator 3 (Cameron Kaiser) > 42. Re: /35 /40/ 45 ? (Rod Young) > 43. Re: Older wordprocessing software (XyWrite) (Eric F.) > 44. PC-7221 (Paul Brodie) > 45. Up for bid - More 'classic' goodies (Bruce Lane) > 46. hp 5036A Lab (roy.harbert@adelphia.net) > 47. Re: Older wordprocessing software (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 20:52:17 -0400 > From: Dave Mabry > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: iUP-201 PC software > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > There was an ISIS-based program from Intel for the iUP 201. In fact, > that's what Intel supported it first under. The MS-DOS version came > much later. The program is called IPPS. I can e-mail the ISIS version > to whoever wants it. I have to look around for the DOS version, but I > should have it, too. > > Joe wrote: > > > Hey Dwight, > > > > If you write something, I'd like to get a copy too. I finally got a > > working iuP 201. BTW I've been thinking of making a PC interface for the > > UPP 103. I've finally got some docs on it and found out that it only uses > > about six commands; three writes, two reads and one read status. I don't > > know what they are but it should be too hard to grab the data with a logic > > analyzer. I'm not planning on doing it anytime soon, right now I'm busy > > re-building some MDSs. > > > > BTRW do you know if there was ever any software written for ISIS to > > operate the iUP 201? > > > > Joe > > > > -- > Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com > Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team > > --__--__-- > > Message: 2 > Subject: Re: Kinda OT: DEC 3000 Model 300 AXP Memory > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:02:06 -0700 (PDT) > From: "Zane H. Healy" > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > I don't think this machine is *quite* 10 years old yet, but it's pretty > > close -- and it's 'different' enough that hopefully I won't get flamed... > > I'm not sure, but I think it's just over 10 years old, if not, as you say > it's pretty close. > > > I have a DEC 3000 Model 300 AXP which is currently sitting idle -- it has > > Tru64 Unix 5.0 on it currently, and 64Meg of RAM. I was thinking of putting > > Alpha VMS 7.1 instead, for to start learning VMS again (someday... :-O ) > > and I recall saying that Alpha VMS is much happier in more than 64M Ram, so > > I was thinking of upgrading it. > > You can run it in 64MB, but it isn't fun. > > > I do know that it uses 'standard' 72-pin Parity FPM Memory - but what I > > don't know is: how finicky is the machine? Will just any Parity memory > > work, or is it limited to certain manufacturers? I have a supplier that has > > used 32M Parity 72-pin FPM memory for $6/stick -- a decent price > > comparatively - I've seen it at $30+ per stick, which would make a memory > > upgrade cost more than the machine itself... > > You're sure that it uses 72-pin? I'm honestly not sure, I know that the > 3000/300LX does, but the 3000/x00 (can't remember the exact model) that a > friend has sitting in my Living room till she finds a drive for it, uses > proprietary RAM. Anyway, I've used various 72-pin FPM SIMMs in my Alpha's > and haven't had any problems that I can think of. Which isn't to say that > you won't have problems. The other question is, can it handle 32MB SIMMs, > and how many do you have to add at once? > > BTW, 128MB is probably more than enough to just play. > > > Should I take the chance and order the memory, or would it be foolhardy to > > do so? > > Do you deal with anyone that scraps PC's? I'm using some RAM out of Pentium > Pro's in a couple of my Alpha's. > > Zane > > --__--__-- > > Message: 3 > Subject: RE: Teh over priced Mark-8/IBM 5100 is back > Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:10:55 +1000 > From: "Kane, David (DPRS)" > To: > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > I think we should give this guy his very own wet dream. I will bid one > MILLION dollars for it (left small finger in mouth), and someone else > can bid a few buck less. That should be a good laugh for him. > > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dwight K. Elvey [mailto:dwightk.elvey@amd.com] > Sent: Tuesday, 8 July 2003 9:06 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Teh over priced Mark-8/IBM 5100 is back > > "He's Back!" > > It looks like the same fellow with a new name. That'd > be my guess. Who was it that contacted eBay last time? > Maybe he should drop them another note. > As a side question, weren't most of the front panels > for the Mark-8's home made. In which case you couldn't > use someone else's photo. > Dwight > > > >From: chris > > > >> The seller is the overpriced systems and swiped descriptions and > photos > >>is back. > >> y=12> > >>Is this the same seller ID or a new one? > > > >I'm really curious what exactly he is selling. The listing doesn't say > >that ANYTHING is really for sale. Although whatever the nothing is, its > > >$50 for shipping, and $5,000 to insure it (wow, it costs more to insure > > >it than to buy it!) > > > >-chris > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:21:43 -0700 (PDT) > From: Fred Cisin > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Replacement CFX-200 Buttons > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Sun, 29 Jun 2003, Robbie Sanders wrote: > > The best way to replace the buttons on a CFX-200 is to buy a used CD-401. > > There is a CFX-20 on eBay: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=2644780188 > > The 40 and 400 are interchangeable (and they have hex arithmetic) > > Are the 20 and 200 interchangeable? > > --__--__-- > > Message: 5 > Subject: Looking for Digital Channel Server II (DESNB) > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:36:27 -0500 (CDT) > From: dittman@dittman.net (Eric Dittman) > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Does anyone have an old Digital Channel Server II (DESNB) sitting > around unused? If so, please let me know. I have someone that > needs one and is willing to pay if it works. > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > > --__--__-- > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 00:42:06 -0400 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > From: Roger Merchberger > Subject: Kinda OT: DEC 3000 Model 300 AXP Memory > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > I don't think this machine is *quite* 10 years old yet, but it's pretty > close -- and it's 'different' enough that hopefully I won't get flamed... > > I have a DEC 3000 Model 300 AXP which is currently sitting idle -- it has > Tru64 Unix 5.0 on it currently, and 64Meg of RAM. I was thinking of putting > Alpha VMS 7.1 instead, for to start learning VMS again (someday... :-O ) > and I recall saying that Alpha VMS is much happier in more than 64M Ram, so > I was thinking of upgrading it. > > I do know that it uses 'standard' 72-pin Parity FPM Memory - but what I > don't know is: how finicky is the machine? Will just any Parity memory > work, or is it limited to certain manufacturers? I have a supplier that has > used 32M Parity 72-pin FPM memory for $6/stick -- a decent price > comparatively - I've seen it at $30+ per stick, which would make a memory > upgrade cost more than the machine itself... > > I have no idea what they have for manufacturers of the memory - these guys > prolly don't, either. It's a reputable company (I've ordered from them > before) but they don't get too deep with the specifics. (WRT another OT > thread: They have 3Com 905C-TX NICS for $10 each...) > > Should I take the chance and order the memory, or would it be foolhardy to > do so? > > Thanks, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > > --__--__-- > > Message: 7 > Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:26:39 -0700 (PDT) > From: Ethan Dicks > Subject: Re: M220B (PDP-8/I) schematics available > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > --- Robert Krten wrote: > > For those of you who missed the announcement in alt.sys.pdp8, > > I've now almost completed the M220 version B schematic. It's > > available at: > > > > http://www.parse.com/~pdp8/pdp8i/m220b.html > > Cool! Thanks! I have a few M220 cards that will eventually benefit > from your efforts (I borrowed them from a parts machine to keep the > main machines running). > > > The trials and tribulations of the PDP-8/I restoration can be > > found at: > > > > http://www.parse.com/~pdp8/pdp8i/restore.html > > > > Plenty-o-dead 7474's in that one :-) > > That's been my experience, too. I have replaced as many as 8 7474s > at a go to get an -8/L back on its feet. I don't recall replacing > any other chip, as a matter of fact. > > -ethan > > --__--__-- > > Message: 8 > Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 23:14:14 -0700 > From: Jim Davis > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: M220B (PDP-8/I) schematics available > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > >--- Robert Krten wrote: > > > > > >>For those of you who missed the announcement in alt.sys.pdp8, > >>I've now almost completed the M220 version B schematic. It's > >>available at: > >> > >>http://www.parse.com/~pdp8/pdp8i/m220b.html > >> > >> > > > >Cool! Thanks! I have a few M220 cards that will eventually benefit > >from your efforts (I borrowed them from a parts machine to keep the > >main machines running). > > > > > > > >>The trials and tribulations of the PDP-8/I restoration can be > >>found at: > >> > >>http://www.parse.com/~pdp8/pdp8i/restore.html > >> > >>Plenty-o-dead 7474's in that one :-) > >> > >> > > > >That's been my experience, too. I have replaced as many as 8 7474s > >at a go to get an -8/L back on its feet. I don't recall replacing > >any other chip, as a matter of fact. > > > >-ethan > > > > > > > 7474's Dead d flops? whats the story on that? > Jim > > --__--__-- > > Message: 9 > From: "Evan R. Pauley" > To: > Subject: RE: Older wordprocessing software > Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 01:48:36 -0500 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Jules, > > I still have most of those old versions of WordPerfect 5.1 DOS, WordPerfect > 6.0 for both DOS and Windows (the file formats are identical, BTW), MS > Office 4.3 for Win3x, AmiPro/Samna, and even (gasp) MultiMate. I have > *several* copies of the WordPerfect 5.1 manuals, along with some old Lotus > 1-2-3 v2.3 and Harvard Graphics manuals (and the software for those also). > > Personally, I was a WordPerfect aficionado (because of the DOS/WIN file > format matching). Hated Word, and used AmiPro/Samna for legal documents > (best on the planet back then). > > Most are on 5-1/4", a few are on 3-1/2", and Office is on CD. Let me know > privately what you need and we'll work out a way to get it to you. > > Evan Pauley > > ---------- > You wrote: > Hi all, perhaps pusing the boundaries of off-topicness here a little, but... > > I'm taking suggestions for wordprocessing software to run on an older 486 > laptop (1994, so almost within the 10 year limit!) that's running Windows > 3.11 > ... > > I still use the machine for a bit of wordprocessing ocassionally (such as it > is > with Windows Write), and better software would be nice. The laptop's handy > for > taking stuff down on before formatting things 'properly' on a more modern > desktop. > > I remember Ami Pro being quite reasonable on a similar spec desktop machine, > but my copy went to tape years ago and around half of the old tapes of mine > that I found recently are no longer readable :-( > > Suggestions of alternative software welcome though... > > cheers > > Jules > > --__--__-- > > Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 02:21:13 -0500 > From: Doc > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Kinda OT: DEC 3000 Model 300 AXP Memory > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Roger Merchberger wrote: > > I do know that it uses 'standard' 72-pin Parity FPM Memory - but what I > > don't know is: how finicky is the machine? Will just any Parity memory > > work, or is it limited to certain manufacturers? I have a supplier that > > has used 32M Parity 72-pin FPM memory for $6/stick -- a decent price > > comparatively - I've seen it at $30+ per stick, which would make a > > memory upgrade cost more than the machine itself... > > There are a bunch of different 3000/300 models. The 3000/300X and > the 3000/300 both take commodity 36-bit parity SIMMs. My 3k/300X is > running RAM from a Mac, from a DEC "Jensen", and from Goodwill. > > The best thumbnail reference directory I've found are on the > DEC/Linux pages: > > http://www.phys.ufl.edu/~prescott/linux/alpha/dec3000-sysinfo.html > > > Doc > > --__--__-- > > Message: 11 > From: "Witchy" > To: > Subject: RE: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? > Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:17:12 +0100 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > Behalf Of Mail List > > Sent: 07 July 2003 03:25 > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: RE: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? > > > > Might depend on what environment it was designed for. If for home > > or office > > 110v would be almost exclusively the norm. If it was designed for > > an industrial > > environment, 220v may have been used sometimes. Plus, so many pieces of > > equipment were designed to be switchable between 110v and 220v. > > It just seems odd that the machine itself was set for 110V whereas its > printer is exclusively 240V: > > http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/dmp100.jpg > > Of course, I'm only assuming it belonged to the machine because everything > came from the same yard sale - Model 3 with plastic cover, DMP100 printer > with plastic cover, cassette deck and a box of paper..... > > cheers > > -- > adrian/witchy > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans > > --__--__-- > > Message: 12 > Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:14:03 +0200 > From: Jochen Kunz > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Kinda OT: DEC 3000 Model 300 AXP Memory > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On 2003.07.08 06:42 Roger Merchberger wrote: > > > I do know that it uses 'standard' 72-pin Parity FPM Memory - but > > what I don't know is: how finicky is the machine? Will just any > > Parity memory work, or is it limited to certain manufacturers? > It should accept any FPM parity (36 bit) SIMMs. One bank consists of two > SIMMs. In fact, it uses long word parity, i.e 33 bit SIMMs like the > AS500. I think it can use only 8 MB and 32 MB SIMMs. > > > Should I take the chance and order the memory, or would it be > > foolhardy to do so? > Well. By two SIMMs, look if they work and by additional 6 if they do. I > have a 300X with 256 MB RAM, thats nice. > > In an other mail Zane isn't sure if it uses 72 pin SIMMs or proprietary > RAM. All models of DEC 3000-300 use 72 pin SIMMs. The DEC > 3000-[456789]00 models use very special 100 pin SIMMs and they need 8 > per bank. > -- > > > tschüß, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ > > --__--__-- > > Message: 13 > Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:41:32 +0200 > From: Jochen Kunz > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Older wordprocessing software > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On 2003.07.07 15:32 Jules Richardson wrote: > > > I'm taking suggestions for wordprocessing software to run on an older > > 486 laptop (1994, so almost within the 10 year limit!) that's running > > Windows 3.11 > 1. Replace Windows with an operating system. E.g. Linux or NetBSD. > (Especially the later runs very well on older hardware with non-GHz CPUs > and only a few MB RAM.) > You may skip this step if you are not willing to wrap your head around > Unix. > 2. LaTeX. Period. > I used several WYSIWYG text processing software at that time > (WordPerfect, AmiPro, StarWriter, ...) and they all sucked. Then I got > into Unix and LaTeX and stayed there since then. LaTeX is not that easy > to learn, but you get _very_ good results for your work. I think (La)TeX > is the most bug free software on this planet. IIRC the LaTeX > distribution for WinDOS and OS/2 of that time was called EMTEX. If you > are able to switch to Linux or NetBSD you can use the most recent teTeX. > > -- > > > tschüß, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ > > --__--__-- > > Message: 14 > Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 02:26:01 -0700 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > From: "Eric F." > Subject: re: Older wordprocessing software > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Mon, Jul 7, 08:36:00, 2003, Jules Richardson wrote: > > >I remember Ami Pro being quite reasonable on a similar spec desktop machine, > >but my copy went to tape years ago and around half of the old tapes of mine > >that I found recently are no longer readable :-( > > > >Suggestions of alternative software welcome though... > > XyWrite comes to mind: low resource requirements, yet oodles of formatting > options. > > It takes a bit of time and practice to build up some speedy chops, so it > may not be the panacea you're looking for. I do know, however, that > XyWrite's format can be successfully converted into (many of) today's > common word processing formats. > > > Regards, > Eric > > --__--__-- > > Message: 15 > Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 07:06:55 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > From: Joe > Subject: Re: iUP-201 PC software > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > I think I found an ISIS version of iPPS last night but I'd like to get > he MS-DOS version if you have it. Do you have the pinout for the cable? > > Joe > > > At 08:52 PM 7/7/03 -0400, you wrote: > >There was an ISIS-based program from Intel for the iUP 201. In fact, > >that's what Intel supported it first under. The MS-DOS version came > >much later. The program is called IPPS. I can e-mail the ISIS version > >to whoever wants it. I have to look around for the DOS version, but I > >should have it, too. > > > >Joe wrote: > > > >> Hey Dwight, > >> > >> If you write something, I'd like to get a copy too. I finally got a > >> working iuP 201. BTW I've been thinking of making a PC interface for the > >> UPP 103. I've finally got some docs on it and found out that it only uses > >> about six commands; three writes, two reads and one read status. I don't > >> know what they are but it should be too hard to grab the data with a logic > >> analyzer. I'm not planning on doing it anytime soon, right now I'm busy > >> re-building some MDSs. > >> > >> BTRW do you know if there was ever any software written for ISIS to > >> operate the iUP 201? > >> > >> Joe > >> > > > >-- > >Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com > >Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team > > --__--__-- > > Message: 16 > Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 07:47:01 -0400 > From: "James B. DiGriz" > Organization: DragonsWeb Labs > To: ti-990@yahoogroups.com, cctalk@classiccmp.org, swpb@yahoogroups.com, > ti99-4a@yahoogroups.com > Subject: TI 990 Page and simulator > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Dunno if everyone has seen this, but there is a fairly new 990 web page > up by David PItts, who has written a simulator and cross-development > tools for Linux and Windows. > > It might be interesting to take something like this, or M.E.S.S. or one > of the other simulators, and reimplement the DX10 4A dev tools. Maybe > somebody might even still have them around somewhere. Hmmm. > > http://www.cozx.com/~dpitts/ti990.html > > later, > jbdigriz > > --__--__-- > > Message: 17 > Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 08:20:50 -0400 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > From: Gene Ehrich > Subject: re: Older wordprocessing software > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > At 02:26 AM 7/8/2003 -0700, you wrote: > >XyWrite comes to mind: low resource requirements, yet oodles of formatting > >options. > > What ever happened to XyWrite, was it acquired by another company? > > --__--__-- > > Message: 18 > From: "Frank Palazzolo" > To: > Subject: Commodore CBM/PET in Terminator 3 > Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:45:34 -0400 > Organization: Knarfian Labs > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Anyone else spot that one near the end of the movie? It was one of the > 80-column models. > Not sure what any of the other "30-year old" computers were. > > -Frank > > --__--__-- > > Message: 19 > Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 14:03:09 +0100 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > From: Mark Firestone > Subject: Re: Commodore CBM/PET in Terminator 3 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > I haven't seen it yet, but Captain Kirk owns one! Check out Star Trek > II... in his apartment... > > At 08:45 08/07/2003 -0400, you wrote: > >Anyone else spot that one near the end of the movie? It was one of the > >80-column models. > >Not sure what any of the other "30-year old" computers were. > > > >-Frank > > [---------] > "Homer, we don't have to have sex." > "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." > "Deserts aren't always right Homer." > "But they're so delicious." > > Website: retrobbs.org > BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 > Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org > [---------] > > --__--__-- > > Message: 20 > From: Bryan Pope > Subject: Re: Older wordprocessing software > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:08:15 -0400 (edt) > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > And thusly Joe spake: > > > > >What about DisplayWrite?? :) > > > > > >*ducking and sprinting for cover* > > > > > >Cheers, > > > > > >Bryan > > > > > > > Geez, why not just use Edlin? :-/ > > > > Joe > > Hey I forgot about that wonderful creation! > > But then there is also: > > C:>copy < document.txt > > (I think it goes this way...) > > Cheers, > > Bryan > > --__--__-- > > Message: 21 > Subject: RE: Older wordprocessing software > Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 07:21:55 -0600 > From: "Feldman, Robert" > To: > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > C>Copy con foo.txt > Foo bar baz > Testing^Z > C> > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bryan Pope [mailto:bpope@wordstock.com] > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:08 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Older wordprocessing software > > > And thusly Joe spake: > > > > >What about DisplayWrite?? :) > > > > > >*ducking and sprinting for cover* > > > > > >Cheers, > > > > > >Bryan > > > > > > > Geez, why not just use Edlin? :-/ > > > > Joe > > Hey I forgot about that wonderful creation! > > But then there is also: > > C:>copy < document.txt > > (I think it goes this way...) > > Cheers, > > Bryan > > --__--__-- > > Message: 22 > Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 10:32:05 -0400 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > From: Gene Ehrich > Subject: Re: Older wordprocessing software > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > At 09:08 AM 7/8/2003 -0400, you wrote: > > > >What about DisplayWrite?? :) > > I used DWA (Display Write Assistant) for years and it was an outstanding > piece of software > > --__--__-- > > Message: 23 > From: "Jay West" > To: > Subject: Re: Older wordprocessing software > Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:38:22 -0500 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > When I do have the need for word processing on my vintage boxes, I use SATURN > on RT-11. > > Jay West > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gene Ehrich > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 9:32 AM > Subject: Re: Older wordprocessing software > > > At 09:08 AM 7/8/2003 -0400, you wrote: > > > >What about DisplayWrite?? :) > > I used DWA (Display Write Assistant) for years and it was an outstanding > piece of software > > --__--__-- > > Message: 24 > Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 07:59:17 -0700 (PDT) > From: Ethan Dicks > Subject: Re: M220B (PDP-8/I) schematics available > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > --- Jim Davis wrote: > > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > >That's been my experience, too. I have replaced as many as 8 7474s > > >at a go to get an -8/L back on its feet. I don't recall replacing > > >any other chip, as a matter of fact. > > > > > >-ethan > > > > > 7474's Dead d flops? whats the story on that? > > Jim > > Dunno. I can say categorically that they were failed chips. They > did not pass muster in a handheld TTL tester, and when replaced, > the PDP-8/L worked. > > There was a mention on the list of a batch of 7440s that failed in > another M-series machine (might or might not have been an -8/L) > with the same date code. > > Not sure why 7474s from the mid-to-late 1960s would be more fragile > than, say, 7400s. Perhaps the flipping and the flopping wears them > out faster than anding and oring? :-) > > -ethan > > --__--__-- > > Message: 25 > From: cvendel@att.net > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Wanted: RL02 Working... > Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 16:04:55 +0000 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Hi everyone, > > I found a place on the East Coast selling RL02's and RLV12's for $120, anyone > in the NJ/NY/CT/MA/RI area (basically anyone in like a 3hr driving radius of > me) have an RL02 they want to sell cheap??? I'd like to pick the unit up and > save myself the $100 shipping charge (plus the worries of it bouncing around in > the back of a UPS or Fedex Ground truck!) So I'd be willing to pay someone in > my area $100 for a drive and $20 for an RLV12 if you have them and they are > known working, please let me know, thanks!!! > > Also I'm still looking for an RM05 or CDC9976 300MB Disk Pak drive, if > someone in my area has one that I could take on loan for 1 week and return for > a $$$ Rental Fee, I'd be willing to work something out with them. > > Thanks, > Curt > > --__--__-- > > Message: 26 > Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:23:57 -0700 (PDT) > From: Fred Cisin > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Older wordprocessing software > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Bryan Pope wrote: > > C:>copy < document.txt > > (I think it goes this way...) > > copy con: document.txt > > The colon is optional on most versions, but helps as a reminder that it is > a device, and avoids problems if one manages to creat a file named CON. > > --__--__-- > > Message: 27 > From: "Bradley, Joel E -Syntegra US" > To: "'cctalk@classiccmp.org'" > Subject: Items available > Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:50:33 -0500 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > I have the following items available. Please e-mail me directly at > joel.bradley@comcast.net if interested: > > Sony PIC-1000 Magic Link with software (PDA circa 1994) > > Control Data Corporation Cyber 960 Framed and Matted photograph (approx 24" > x 20") > > Control Data Corporation Cyber 960 Matted photograph, No Frame (approx 24" x > 20") > > Control Data Corporation 3 - Ring Binder (many available) > > Control Data Corporation White Coffee Mugs (individual or set available) > > Control Data Corporation Legal Pad portfolio, brown leather-like material. > NICE! > > Microsoft Excel 2.2 for Macintosh - MINT IN BOX, still shrinkwrapped! > > ------ > Joel > > --__--__-- > > Message: 28 > Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 15:22:11 -0400 > Subject: American Automation EZ-Pro development system > From: Arlen Michaels > To: classiccmp > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > This microprocessor development system dating from the early 80s includes a > hardware in-circuit emulator for the Motorola 68HC11. I'd like to get it > running but I have no documents or software. Can anyone help? > > The main box is model number AA-547 and I believe it hooks up by serial > cable to a host PC. Besides the external ICE hardware, there's also a small > prom programmer box hanging off the system. > > Thanks in advance, > Arlen Michaels > > --__--__-- > > Message: 29 > From: Tom Owad > To: Classic Computer > Subject: Kontron LA 32A hard drive? > Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:11:32 -0400 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > I have Kontron LA 32A Logic Analyzer that complains about no boot disk on > startup. It has two drive bays, the first of which has a floppy drive > and the second of which is empty. > > Does anybody know what software I'd need to get this running or would be > willing to make copies? > > Thanks, > Tom > > Applefritter > www.applefritter.com > > --__--__-- > > Message: 30 > From: "Douglas Wood" > To: > Subject: Re: American Automation EZ-Pro development system > Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 15:27:56 -0500 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > An 'HC11 emulator from the "early '80s"? I'm going from solely from memory > here, but I don't think that the 'HC11 existed then. Do you possibly mean > the 6805 series of microcontroller, perhaps? > > Douglas Wood > Software Engineer > dbwood@kc.rr.com > ICQ#: 143841506 > > Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC > http://epicis.piclist.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arlen Michaels" > To: "classiccmp" > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 2:22 PM > Subject: American Automation EZ-Pro development system > > > > This microprocessor development system dating from the early 80s includes > a > > hardware in-circuit emulator for the Motorola 68HC11. I'd like to get it > > running but I have no documents or software. Can anyone help? > > > > The main box is model number AA-547 and I believe it hooks up by serial > > cable to a host PC. Besides the external ICE hardware, there's also a > small > > prom programmer box hanging off the system. > > > > Thanks in advance, > > Arlen Michaels > > --__--__-- > > Message: 31 > From: "Hans Franke" > Organization: SIEMENS AG > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:29:38 +0200 > Subject: RE: rare TRS-80 model 3 ?? > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > > > Another puzzle is why mine came with a 240V printer when it was a 110V US > > > > machine? How common is a 240V circuit over there, apart for the likes of > > > > washing machines? > > > > How common is equipment that runs on 240V besides large appliances sold in > > > the US? Not very much. > > > > Might depend on what environment it was designed for. If for home or office > > 110v would be almost exclusively the norm. If it was designed for an > industrial > > environment, 220v may have been used sometimes. Plus, so many pieces of > > equipment were designed to be switchable between 110v and 220v. > > Well, maybe keep in Mind that Witchy lives in Britain, and 240 is > there (as for most other parts of the world) the standard voltage. > High power (3 phases) is supposed to be 400 :) > > Now, for the question it's rather where did you buy the machine? > Since the Printer is 240 I assume in Europe. In the late 70s a lot > of machines got directly imported and the people used step down > transformers to operate them - Often dealers even managed to sell > these beasts to customers when the original PSU was switchable to > 220 and so maxing the profit :) > > Gruss > H. > > -- > VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen > http://www.vcfe.org/ > > --__--__-- > > Message: 32 > From: "Antonio Carlini" > To: > Subject: RE: Kinda OT: DEC 3000 Model 300 AXP Memory > Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:32:03 +0100 > Organization: me@home > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Manx ( http://vt100.net/manx ) has an upgrade manual listed for it > (try searching on "dec 3000"). If that doesn't help, I have > a service guide around somewhere, so yell. > > (And, yes, OpenVMS will feel much happier in 128MB). > > Antonio > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > > --__--__-- > > Message: 33 > Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 15:36:07 -0600 > From: emanuel stiebler > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: SCSI bit-banging > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Hi all, > I guess we all remember this boards attached to > ataris/commodores/apples, where we had a PIA/parallel port to attach > some of the nice SCSI disks. > > However, I don't find anything about this old bit-banging interfaces on > the net. > > Any links ? > > cheers > > --__--__-- > > Message: 34 > Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 17:44:32 -0400 > From: Bob Shannon > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: M220B (PDP-8/I) schematics available > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Jim Davis wrote: > > > > >> > >> That's been my experience, too. I have replaced as many as 8 7474s > >> at a go to get an -8/L back on its feet. I don't recall replacing > >> any other chip, as a matter of fact. > >> > >> -ethan > >> > >> > >> > > 7474's Dead d flops? whats the story on that? > > Jim > > > Good question! I've also chased down several bad 7474's in my Imlac, > and I suspect some bad 7474's on a > few HP 1000 series I/O boards I have down in the shop. > > Is the 7474 a 'dog'? I've know a few TTL parts that were pretty bad, > mainly counters though. But a latch? > > --__--__-- > > Message: 35 > Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 19:15:42 -0400 > Subject: Re: American Automation EZ-Pro development system > From: Arlen Michaels > To: > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > on 8/7/03 4:27 PM, Douglas Wood at dbwood@kc.rr.com wrote: > > > An 'HC11 emulator from the "early '80s"? I'm going from solely from memory > > here, but I don't think that the 'HC11 existed then. Do you possibly mean > > the 6805 series of microcontroller, perhaps? > > Sorry, I should have said "late 80s". The firmware in the 68HC11 emulator > pod is dated 1-18-89. The design of the main box likely did originate > somewhat earlier because it appears to be based on the SS-50 bus (believe it > or not) and certainly AA produced emulators for other early Motorola cpu's. > > Arlen Michaels > > -- > Arlen Michaels > arlen@acm.org > > --__--__-- > > Message: 36 > Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 20:26:09 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > From: Joe > Subject: New Finds: SWTPC :-) > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > A friend of mine picked up about 30 boxs of electronics parts, data > books, evaluation kits, parts samples, etc at a local flea market last > week. Today I was helping him go through the stuff and I spotted some > familar looking boards. I picked one up and remarked that it looked like > something for the SWTPCs. Then THE very next board that I picked up was > marked "SWTPC" so I knew I was onto somehting good. I dug through the boxs > and got 6+ boxs of disks with software for the FLEX OS (used on the SWTPCs) > and found six circuit boards for the SWTPCs. Here's the list: (1) SWTPC > MP-09 - Replacement CPU board for the SWTPC computers, uses 6809 CPU. This > is a MP-09, not an A or B. (2) A Southeastern Micro Systems DDC-16 Floppy > Drive Controller. (3) A Tanner Computers SS-50 64k memory board, uses 2716 > EPROMs or 6116 S RAMs. This one has the S RAMS installed. (4) A SWTPC MP-R > 2716 EPROM burner card. (5) A SWTPC MP-T Interrupt Timer board. It's > implemented with a 5009 programmable counter/ divider and 6820 PIA ICs and > provides software selectable interrupts of 1 usec, 10 usec, 100 usec, 1 > msec, 10 msec, 20 msec, 100 msec, 1 sec, 10 sec, 100 sec, 1 min, 10 min or > 1 hour. (6) A Gimix 2 port Serial Interface board. Fits the SS-30 socket > and uses two MC68B50s. I found everything else described on Michal Holley's > SWTPC site but not this one. Does anyone have any details on it? > > Pretty good haul, specailly considering that I didn't have to go > anywhere and find it :-) > > Joe > > --__--__-- > > Message: 37 > Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 18:22:34 -0600 > From: Rod Young > Subject: /35 /40/ 45 ? > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Well, I'll take a chance and ask... just in case timing is right... > > I'm looking for a PDP 11/35, or /40 to add to the collection. I know I > know, who isn't looking for one! > > I have a few 11/23's and misc cards I might consider trading in case anyone > in Western Canada has a /35 or /40 they are looking to trade??? sell ??? > or just find a good home for... > > thx > rod > > --__--__-- > > Message: 38 > Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 08:52:21 -0500 > From: Mark Tapley > Subject: Re: Looking for new maintainer for DECVAX.ORG and PDP11.ORG > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > mrbill wrote: > > >I've also got about a truck-full (maybe a station wagon load, maybe > >less) of old DEC documentation, handbooks, software on paper tape, a > >disc pack or two... Jeff Sharp has seen my garage. 8-) I can't ship any > >of it (unless you provide a FedEx or UPS account number to bill to), and > >would like to avoid throwing it in the trash. At least 3-4 "storage tubs" > >of manuals and documentation, a mixed VMS 4/5 "orange wall", and various > >other things. > > > >If you're interested, please contact me by email. I don't have time for > >DEC/PDP stuff anymore, and need the space in my garage back - but want > >it all to go to someone worthwhile. > > I don't have room to keep this, but if anyone is interested in this, > could likely help with a "rescue". Let me know when/if you want to > set something up. > > -- > - Mark > 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 > > --__--__-- > > Message: 39 > Subject: Re: /35 /40/ 45 ? > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:27:08 -0700 (PDT) > From: "Zane H. Healy" > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > I'm looking for a PDP 11/35, or /40 to add to the collection. I know I > > know, who isn't looking for one! > > I'm not. I don't have the room :^( > > Zane > > --__--__-- > > Message: 40 > From: "Jay West" > To: > Subject: Re: /35 /40/ 45 ? > Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:04:38 -0500 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Zane wrote.... > > I'm not. I don't have the room :^( > > I *DO* have the room, and I AM looking for a 35/40/45 *grin*. > > So of someone is getting a little tight on space..... > > Jay (dreaming) West > > --__--__-- > > Message: 41 > From: Cameron Kaiser > Subject: Re: Commodore CBM/PET in Terminator 3 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:17:37 -0700 (PDT) > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > Anyone else spot that one near the end of the movie? It was one of the > > 80-column models. > > Yeah, I noticed that. I'm wondering which computer John Connor knocked on > the ground, though. It looked like an early X-term of some vintage. > > -- > ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com > -- High explosives are applicable where truth and logic fail. -- Marcello Corno > > --__--__-- > > Message: 42 > Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 21:40:01 -0600 > From: Rod Young > Subject: Re: /35 /40/ 45 ? > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > And... if someone wants to swap an 35/40/45 for my 11/23 ---SMILE... let me > know! > > rod (hoping) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jay West" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 9:04 PM > Subject: Re: /35 /40/ 45 ? > > > > Zane wrote.... > > > I'm not. I don't have the room :^( > > > > I *DO* have the room, and I AM looking for a 35/40/45 *grin*. > > > > So of someone is getting a little tight on space..... > > > > Jay (dreaming) West > > --__--__-- > > Message: 43 > Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 02:56:53 -0700 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > From: "Eric F." > Subject: Re: Older wordprocessing software (XyWrite) > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Tue, 08-Jul-2003, @ 08:20:50 -0400, Gene Ehrich wrote: > > >What ever happened to XyWrite, was it acquired by another company? > > > Yeah - something like that. XyWrite's history of commercial development > took a few odd turns, and suffered the consequences of some marketing mishaps. > > > A web page w/some decent info on XyWrite can be found @ > > http://www.escape.com/~yesss/_xywhat.htm > > (This is not my web site, BTW.) > > > Regards, > Eric > > --__--__-- > > Message: 44 > From: Paul Brodie > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 23:04:22 +1000 > Subject: PC-7221 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Mike, > I also have a Sharp lunch box computer and > have tried to get a boot disk or config disk. Have > you had any luck ? > > Regards > > Brodie > > --__--__-- > > Message: 45 > Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 07:46:25 -0700 > From: "Bruce Lane" > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Up for bid - More 'classic' goodies > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Shameless plug alert! > > I've got a few items in my latest crop of auctions that may be of > interest to those of you running MicroVAX, MicroPDP, or IBM PS/2 Model 70 or 80 > systems. > > First off, there's an IBM 'Blue Lightning' CPU upgrade kit, unused and > still in its original packaging. This takes a 386 PS/2 system up to IBM's > 486DLC. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2740760908 > > Second is another Maxtor XT2190 drive, which I'm told is the same as a > DEC RD54. Don't know for sure what shape it's in, but I recall it was a pull > from an old PC (which got scrapped). > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2740802251 > > Finally, there's a DEC RRD40 CD-ROM drive (the one with the psychotic > D-sub 15 connector on its case). > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2740796077 > > There's other non-classic (and non-computer) stuff as well, if you're > curious. No reserve on anything, some stuff listed as 'buy-it-now.' > > Thanks for looking. > > > > Anyway, hit E-pay and do a seller search > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, > Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com > ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com > "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior > to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 46 > From: > To: > Subject: hp 5036A Lab > Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 18:04:18 -0400 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Do you still have loose bound copies of the manual? I would be glad to scan and > post them as I am in need of them myself. I just purchased a lab from eBay, but > it came with no manual or processor. > > Do you happen to know if there are any micro's floating around?? > > Thanks for your time, > Roy > > --__--__-- > > Message: 47 > Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 23:58:17 +0100 (BST) > From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?= > > Subject: Re: Older wordprocessing software > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > > Windows 3.11 > > 1. Replace Windows with an operating system. E.g. Linux or NetBSD. > > (Especially the later runs very well on older hardware with non-GHz CPUs > > and only a few MB RAM.) > > You may skip this step if you are not willing to wrap your head around > > Unix. > > Ahh, been there though. I did run Linux on this very same laptop for a while - > I believe it was AbiWord I used as a basic GUI-based wordprocessor for my > scribbles. > > At the time, one problem was the lack of CDROM drive on the machine for getting > any large software onto it. The only parallel-port drive I had access to was a > Microsolutions Backpack, and no matter what I tried it refused to work with > Linux. No problems there under DOS / Win311. > > Second problem was one of performance - the linux distributions that were > around a couple of years ago tended to be aimed at slightly faster hardware. I > do still have old distributions lying around back to around 1994 or so (I > remember the days of SLS on 50 or so floppies - it was always guaranteed *one* > of the disks would be dead, usually near the end of the pile :) but then I'd > have all sorts of compatibility problems with any modern software. Alternately > I could trim down a more modern version of Linux - but that's a lot of effort > for something that just gets used for casual note-taking now and then. > > Third problem is also performance-related, and down to the time it takes Linux > - or any modern MS operating system - to start up and shut down. If I just want > to spend a couple of minutes typing some notes, I don't want to be taking the > same length of time waiting for the machine to boot and then shut down again at > the end. With DOS / Win311 the startup and shutdown is extremely quick. > > Maybe there's a version of NetBSD that gets round the second problem, but I bet > it still takes a lot longer than DOS/Windows does to boot and shut down. > > > I used several WYSIWYG text processing software at that time > > (WordPerfect, AmiPro, StarWriter, ...) and they all sucked. > > Wordperfect 6.0 I assume, 5.1 not being particularly WYSIWYG as I recall :-) > And yes, from memory 6.0 did suck; all these posts have reminded me of all the > wordprocessing software I'd forgotten about. I used to use 5.1 a *lot* under > DOS until I started running Windows 3 on the PC I had back then. > > I have a horrible feeling the negative thing I vaguely recall about Ami Pro was > its stability, at least in the version I had :-( Maybe there were later > releases with the problems ironed out, or it was just some odd problem with the > machine I had back then. If I can trace a copy then I'll find out I suppose... > > Someone mentioned DisplayWrite too - arghh! That had totally faded from my > memory. My father's work made it their standard for a while; I should have > access to a copy in theory but I have no plans to try and track that one > down... :-) > > cheers > > Jules > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! > Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ > > > > End of cctech Digest From Borgwardt-Hamburg at t-online.de Sun Jul 13 19:03:16 2003 From: Borgwardt-Hamburg at t-online.de (Friedrich Borgwardt, Ing. GmbH) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:49 2005 Subject: TIL 308 Message-ID: <19b1bh-0KBAWm0@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> Dear Mr. Arnold, I found your name and adress by searching in google for the TIL-308 spare part. You published that you got a few of them for sale. If you even have a few of them now, I would be glad if you give me an offer. With kind regards Karlheinz Jentsch From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Jul 13 19:04:43 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:49 2005 Subject: PDP rescue, Cambridge, UK In-Reply-To: <000201c31668$67b2d950$8cdd86d9@graemedntzltme> Message-ID: Hi folks, Does anyone have the means and the storage to rescue store 4 big-box PDPs before the 21st July? I'm supposed to be doing it myself on tuesday (15th) but I think the van hire costs will be too much for me since I'm unemployed.....because I'm coming from the north it'll need 2 or 3 days van hire (Luton with a tail-lift) and that's gonna cost me! Anyone got any thoughts? cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From jared at ethani.com Sun Jul 13 19:32:17 2003 From: jared at ethani.com (Jared Hunnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:49 2005 Subject: NEC PC 8001-A, Commodore SX64, Mac Color Classic for Trade Message-ID: <200307111429.AA162005240@mail.ethani.com> I know this is an old message, but did you get, or still have the SMORE cartridge? I've been looking for one for awhile. Thanks, Jared I picked up the following this morning: NEC PC 8001-A keyboard & base unit. Commodore SX64. Mac Color Classic 4/40 Left behind (like-new condition) Commodore 64 (no power brick) 1541 Floppy Drive Commodore Cassette Drive A cartridge labeled "SMORE". Comrex CR220 Serial Bus Printer None of these have any use or value to me, so if they do to YOU, please contact me off list for fair trade. Regards, Eliot From hansp at citem.org Sun Jul 13 19:34:21 2003 From: hansp at citem.org (Hans Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:49 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 tinkering Message-ID: <3F102004.3070802@citem.org> We did some tinkering with our IBM 5100 the other day with results which might be of interest. Our 5100 is a model A4; it has 64Kbytes of memory and APL (only). When we opened up the beastie for a service a year or so ago and speculated on the fact that there were no empty slots in the card cage (we do seem to have every built-in option made) which led us to propose that perhaps the BASIC interpreter was also included but made unavailable by the absence of the language selector switch on the front panel. Examining the cable harness behind the panel showed a particularly thick section encased in insulation tape just behind where the language select switch would be installed and tempting evidence of one, possibly two unconnected wires. At that time we went no further. This week we were prompted to revisit the 5100 with a view of seeing if we could in fact run BASIC. Carfully cutting open the insulating tape around the cable harness behind the language select switch position revealed two unconnected wires complete with tiny push on connectors. We jumpered the two wires, powered on the machine and waited with bated breath. Following the familiar self-test display we were presented with an unfamiliar prompt, not the APL one at all. A little fiddling with the keyboard quickly confirmed that we had BASIC operational! So at least the APL only versions of the 5100 are configured with the BASIC interpreter which is disabled simply by the absence of the language select switch. Our IBM engineer speculates that the reverse is not the case : the BASIC only configuration does not include the APL ROM code. Anyone care to experiment and confirm that? We are now installing a language select switch (though alas not of the same type as the others) and look forward to playing with BASIC on the machine. Does anyone know the price difference between the A4 and C4 models? I would hazard a guess that that switch cost several hundered dollars at least ;-) Oh, what prompted us to revist the 5100? We recently acquired a Commodore PET 2001 and on compiling some techinal notes for it found a web site stating that the PET was 2 to 3 times faster than the 5100. That statemnet surprised me and I wanted to confirm it. Early indication show that the two machines are remarkably alike in performance (another suprise) the following program runs in the same time (to the second) on both machines : 10 a = 0 20 print a, a*a, sqr(a) 30 a = a + 1 40 if a < 100 goto 20 50 stop The 5100 seems about 30% faster on though with the following program: 10 a = 0 20 b = a*a 25 c = sqr(a) 30 a = a + 1 40 if a < 100 goto 20 50 stop So it seems it is the display which slows it down. Regards, -- hbp From florit at unixville.com Sun Jul 13 19:35:47 2003 From: florit at unixville.com (Louis Florit) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:49 2005 Subject: Fun story, and 'How do you remove security anchors from cases?' Message-ID: ClassicCmp story: when I was at my university (Florida International University, Miami, FL), studying computer science, I managed to get in league with a professor (Dr. Milani) to let me take independent study with him, and use the computers in his lab; see, it was sort of the elite lab on campus, the only one outfitted with the then 'super cool' Silicon Graphics Indy and Indigo 2 machines. I'd always jonesed for having one of these, even though they're now outdated for any 'real' work besides terminal duties. I'd run across many on ebay (they're super cheap now), and even saw a prototype Indy at 'Weird Stuff' in but never got around to buying one. See, I'm the kind of classic cmp collector that lets the computer come to him, with the off exception (Timex Sinclair 2068 was ebay bought). Some of my cohorts (Miwa and Gouku) from my days at the University, decided to stay on there working as SysAdmins for the campus computers. They told me that every so often, as systems come to the end of their life, they usually get torn into, all the useful recyclables get extracted (memory and hard drives if they're of any usable size), and their now lifeless corpses get sent to 'surplus'. This is where a gentleman gets their university serial number, marks them as 'gone' from inventory, and they usually get bought out in lots at auctions held every so often. My guess is for metal scrap or some other ill end. These same cohorts go by the surplus building regularly and walk by the soon to be scrapped systems looking for gems to be rescued. At one point, they ran into an SGI system and mentioned it to me, knowing I was interested. However, because of delayed in communication, by the time we mobilized to acquire the system it was gone. Bummer! "Keep an eye out and grab'em when you see any SGI's." I told them, and they said "ok". About a year later, they message me on IRC and say 'Hey, guess what we got you.' I was happy beside myself. When we arrange for the 'drop' at the university campus parking garage: In the trunk of the car they had TWO SGI's for me: an Indigo 2 and an Indy! On the torn stickers affixed to their shells they had their names, Frontier and Pioneer. These were two of the systems from my lab! The lab had been dismantled a few years after a graduated for office space and the systems moved to another room/lab. With much glee I transferred them to my car and ran off as fast as I could before lighting would strike me, with so much luck on my side. I've got them at home; the Indigo 2 had a padlock on it, which I made short work of with a dremel. Opened it up, and it has all of its memory and harddrive- 32Megs and a 1G drive! The Indy had its drive, but no memory. I tried to boot the Indigo 2, but no luck; it would die trying to repair the boot drive. I had a spare scsi drive and a Indy compatible cdrom drive, and a copy of Irix 6.5. I tried to make the Indigo 2 boot with that, but there was no love- aparently the scsi card has some problems and the cdrom keeps on timing out and resetting the scsi bus. I had some spare ram that would work in the Indy, put a replacement drive in it, and after some false starts (didn't know the boot disk had to be SCSI Id 1 on Indys) managed to get most of Irix onto it. Its running quite nicely given its near 9 years of age. So onto the real question here: The outsides are in great shape, but it appears there were some fears of theft in the new lab and they put those aluminum anchors that you thread the cable through and padlock on one end so the equipment doesn't 'Walk away'. I'd like to try and remove this without damaging the case. Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions? There seems to be a rubber like material between the aluminum anchor and the computer itself, and I was thinking of poking at it with a razor blade or the like. Looking for better alternatives, though. Louis From jcwren at jcwren.com Sun Jul 13 19:58:00 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:49 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 tinkering In-Reply-To: <3F102004.3070802@citem.org> References: <3F102004.3070802@citem.org> Message-ID: <200307132043.48648.jcwren@jcwren.com> I'm not sure what video controllers the PETs used, but Motorola 6845 type controllers had a register that set the starting scan address of the video memory. So scrolling was as easy as changing this pointer. IBMs have always scrolled by doing screen copies. I don't know if you remember Xenix, but Xenix used to scream on a Hercules graphics card. That was because they used a similiar technique, and weren't limited to the BIOS implementation. I wonder if the difference in speed you are seeing is a result of this type of comparison? --John On Saturday 12 July 2003 10:49 am, Hans Pufal wrote: > We did some tinkering with our IBM 5100 the other day with results which > might be of interest. > > Our 5100 is a model A4; it has 64Kbytes of memory and APL (only). > > When we opened up the beastie for a service a year or so ago and > speculated on the fact that there were no empty slots in the card cage > (we do seem to have every built-in option made) which led us to propose > that perhaps the BASIC interpreter was also included but made > unavailable by the absence of the language selector switch on the front > panel. > > Examining the cable harness behind the panel showed a particularly thick > section encased in insulation tape just behind where the language select > switch would be installed and tempting evidence of one, possibly two > unconnected wires. > > At that time we went no further. > > This week we were prompted to revisit the 5100 with a view of seeing if > we could in fact run BASIC. Carfully cutting open the insulating tape > around the cable harness behind the language select switch position > revealed two unconnected wires complete with tiny push on connectors. > > We jumpered the two wires, powered on the machine and waited with bated > breath. Following the familiar self-test display we were presented with > an unfamiliar prompt, not the APL one at all. A little fiddling with the > keyboard quickly confirmed that we had BASIC operational! > > So at least the APL only versions of the 5100 are configured with the > BASIC interpreter which is disabled simply by the absence of the > language select switch. Our IBM engineer speculates that the reverse is > not the case : the BASIC only configuration does not include the APL ROM > code. Anyone care to experiment and confirm that? > > We are now installing a language select switch (though alas not of the > same type as the others) and look forward to playing with BASIC on the > machine. > > Does anyone know the price difference between the A4 and C4 models? I > would hazard a guess that that switch cost several hundered dollars at > least ;-) > > Oh, what prompted us to revist the 5100? We recently acquired a > Commodore PET 2001 and on compiling some techinal notes for it found a > web site stating that the PET was 2 to 3 times faster than the 5100. > That statemnet surprised me and I wanted to confirm it. Early > indication show that the two machines are remarkably alike in > performance (another suprise) the following program runs in the same > time (to the second) on both machines : > > 10 a = 0 > 20 print a, a*a, sqr(a) > 30 a = a + 1 > 40 if a < 100 goto 20 > 50 stop > > The 5100 seems about 30% faster on though with the following program: > > 10 a = 0 > 20 b = a*a > 25 c = sqr(a) > 30 a = a + 1 > 40 if a < 100 goto 20 > 50 stop > > So it seems it is the display which slows it down. > > Regards, > > -- hbp From wpointon at earthlink.net Sun Jul 13 19:59:38 2003 From: wpointon at earthlink.net (william pointon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:49 2005 Subject: NeXT monitor cables Message-ID: hey gang - i hope exeryones doing well -- im in need of some next stuff to get a couple systems running - 1 - a video/sound y cable to connect a color nextstation to a soundbox and a color monitor 2 - the 3-bnc adaptor that goes on the monitor end of the y cable if youre not using a next monitor 3 - a mono video cable to connect a mono nextstation to a mono monitor 4 - also i need 2 next keyboards (non adb) 5 - ??? - i would really like to find a copy of openstep 4,2 mach or nextstep 3.3 ------- thanks a bunch and please reply off list --- billp From frustum at pacbell.net Sun Jul 13 20:16:01 2003 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:49 2005 Subject: TIFF to PDF (slightly OT, but for a good cause :-)) In-Reply-To: <200307100100.VAA09995@parse.com> References: <200307100100.VAA09995@parse.com> Message-ID: <3F1201F2.1020507@pacbell.net> Robert Krten wrote: > I have the chance to pay some money and get my 17x22" PDP-8/I schematics > scanned, but they only offer TIFF output. These will be scanned in 400 DPI > mode and put on the web. These are a newer revision than the ones posted > on the web. > > What I'd *really* like to do is convert them from TIFF to PDF and bind them > into multi-page PDFs instead of the one-per-page TIFF files that I'll get > from the scanning house. > > Any volunteers? Suggestions for *free* software than runs on FreeBSD or, worst > case, Windoze? I use c42pdf on a PC. It is free. It is fast. It doesn't actually touch the image -- it just puts a PDF wrapper around it. However, it only works for bitonal images (1bpp). Do a google search on "c42pdf" and you'll find a number of hits. Go here to get binaries for a number of architectures: http://c42pdf.ffii.org/ I also know that some months back Eric Smith of this list was working on something much more flexible than c42pdf, but I don't know where it stands. You can check for yourself: http://tumble.brouhaha.com/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jul 13 20:32:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:49 2005 Subject: Old Word Processors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030713181806.F48228@newshell.lmi.net> > Hi guys.... > I like that reference to edlin by Joe.... > Now that was some pain in the ass WP.... 8*) The DOS versions of WordStar were pretty much the "standard", until they lost the market to WordPervert. But how about the DOS version of Michael Shrayer's Electric Pencil From esharpe at uswest.net Sun Jul 13 21:39:00 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:49 2005 Subject: PDP 8 for over $3000 References: Message-ID: <00d401c349af$53af07b0$0100a8c0@SONYDIGITALED> Due to the fact of the serial number, probably cheap at even twice the price. earliest S/N I have seen on any 8 is the s/n # 18 classic 8 we have at the museum here. we have an 8s but alas the front bezel is really nasty... looking for a replacement.. perhaps someone has one out there?? Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 4:56 PM Subject: Re: PDP 8 for over $3000 > On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Keys wrote: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2738787795 > > That's a bargain! > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From esharpe at uswest.net Sun Jul 13 21:40:47 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:49 2005 Subject: PDP 8 for over $3000 References: Message-ID: <00d401c349af$53af07b0$0100a8c0@SONYDIGITALED> Due to the fact of the serial number, probably cheap at even twice the price. earliest S/N I have seen on any 8 is the s/n # 18 classic 8 we have at the museum here. we have an 8s but alas the front bezel is really nasty... looking for a replacement.. perhaps someone has one out there?? Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 4:56 PM Subject: Re: PDP 8 for over $3000 > On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Keys wrote: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2738787795 > > That's a bargain! > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From esharpe at uswest.net Sun Jul 13 21:58:07 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:49 2005 Subject: Can anyone id these HP ICs? References: <3.0.6.16.20030710202035.426f92f8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <010201c349b1$f2e5a080$0100a8c0@SONYDIGITALED> if you email me a scan of the card I may know what it is. Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 8:20 PM Subject: Can anyone id these HP ICs? > Picked up an HP circuit card today with some NEAT looking ICs. The ICs > are 16 pin DIP packages but are made entirely of gold and ceramic. They > have a gold bottom plate then a layer of white ceramic with what appears to > be a gold ring around the top then a gold lid soldered to that. The legs > are also all gold. They sit on gold plates that are slightly smalled than > the ICs and the plates have a single leg coming off of each end that is > soldered to the circuit board. The IC legs don't even mount in regular IC > sockets instead there is a gold leaf terminal for each leg. I've never seen > that type of terminals used for ICs before but HP does use them for > individual wires in some of their products. The wires to the card readers > in the HP-67 and HP-41 card readers are connected that way. I have no idea > what this card came out of other than it's made by HP. The part number > that's on it doesn't help id it either. There are 12 of these strange > looking ICs on the card. They have HP logos and all the part number > 1820-2000, 1820-1999 or 1820-0753. I've searched the net for those numbers > and checked the on-line HP part number cross references but didn't find > anything. However the 1820 prefix usually indicates that the part uses TTL > levels. > > Any ideas? > > Joe From esharpe at uswest.net Sun Jul 13 22:00:04 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:49 2005 Subject: Can anyone id these HP ICs? References: <3.0.6.16.20030710202035.426f92f8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <010201c349b1$f2e5a080$0100a8c0@SONYDIGITALED> if you email me a scan of the card I may know what it is. Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 8:20 PM Subject: Can anyone id these HP ICs? > Picked up an HP circuit card today with some NEAT looking ICs. The ICs > are 16 pin DIP packages but are made entirely of gold and ceramic. They > have a gold bottom plate then a layer of white ceramic with what appears to > be a gold ring around the top then a gold lid soldered to that. The legs > are also all gold. They sit on gold plates that are slightly smalled than > the ICs and the plates have a single leg coming off of each end that is > soldered to the circuit board. The IC legs don't even mount in regular IC > sockets instead there is a gold leaf terminal for each leg. I've never seen > that type of terminals used for ICs before but HP does use them for > individual wires in some of their products. The wires to the card readers > in the HP-67 and HP-41 card readers are connected that way. I have no idea > what this card came out of other than it's made by HP. The part number > that's on it doesn't help id it either. There are 12 of these strange > looking ICs on the card. They have HP logos and all the part number > 1820-2000, 1820-1999 or 1820-0753. I've searched the net for those numbers > and checked the on-line HP part number cross references but didn't find > anything. However the 1820 prefix usually indicates that the part uses TTL > levels. > > Any ideas? > > Joe From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jul 13 22:01:32 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:49 2005 Subject: TIFF to PDF (slightly OT, but for a good cause :-)) In-Reply-To: <200307100100.VAA09995@parse.com> References: <200307100100.VAA09995@parse.com> Message-ID: <3F121A9C.1000002@mdrconsult.com> Robert Krten wrote: > Any volunteers? Suggestions for *free* software than runs on FreeBSD or, worst > case, Windoze? I can do that. Framemaker w/Acrobat imports images and prints to PDF quite nicely. The PDFs won't be searchable, though.... Or, if you want to do it yourself, it's fairly simple in Unix. You need tifftopnm, pnmtops, and ps2pdf. I don't know of a way to bypass the postscript step. In bash (I don't do csh, sorry): $ ls *.tiff 1.tiff 2.tiff 3.tiff $i=1 $ for t in *.tiff do tifftopnm $t > foo.pnm pnmtops foo.pnm > ${i}.ps i=`expr $i \+ 1` done $ cat *.ps >> big.ps $ ps2pdf big.ps The only thing you have to watch is orientation - pnmtops will rotate a landscape image to fit a portrait page. From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sun Jul 13 23:07:01 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: NeXT monitor cables In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <65363116-B5A6-11D7-9D8B-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Sunday, July 13, 2003, at 08:54 PM, william pointon wrote: > hey gang - i hope exeryones doing well -- im in need of some next > stuff to get a couple systems running - > > 1 - a video/sound y cable to connect a color nextstation to a soundbox > and a color monitor > If you find an extra one of these, let me know, I have been in search of one for a long time. I have a very nice NextStation Color that I have never been able to use because I don't have the blasted cable. I dug up the pinouts of all the things the cable connects to - sound box, monitor, nextstation, and drew up schematics for the cable. I never built it though, because I wasn't sure if it would work, and I wouldn't want to risk frying my system because of a hacked together cable. I am pretty sure that it's close, though, and I can post the schematics if anyone has a proper cable and would like to multimeter it out and see if I was right. If we can create a proper set of schematics for this cable, it would be simple to build. I'm sure there are several of us out there that need one of these cables. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 13 23:39:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: Connecting an RM05 to a Qbus In-Reply-To: <200307111441.h6BEfRZ76555@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030714043553.73390.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- cvendel@att.net wrote: > Is there an adapter or converter to connect an RMxx drive to a Vax 4000's > Qbus??? I seriously doubt it, even with a Qniverter. > I can only find references to the Massbus controller and it was > meant for the 700 series unibus. There's real MASSBUS for 700-series machines (i.e., 11/780, 11/750, 8600, but not 11/725 or 11/730)... 32-bit data path and everything. There's the RH11 Unibus<->MASSBUS adapter, but it probably can't handle the RM05 data rate - the RM02 is spec'ed for the RH11 (it rotates slower than the RM03). You could try a 22-bit Qniverter with an RH11, but I wouldn't hold my breath. More than one device that works with uVAX-IIs and -IIIs does not work in the 4000. We found that the hard way at work when someone tried to use a TLZ04 drive in a VAX-4000 with a Qbus COMBOARD. > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of cctech digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: . . . Please edit the digest out of your messages. I got 52K in my overflowing in-box. -ethan From jpdavis at gorge.net Mon Jul 14 00:33:01 2003 From: jpdavis at gorge.net (jpdavis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: M220B (PDP-8/I) schematics available In-Reply-To: <200307100054.UAA22987@parse.com> References: <200307100054.UAA22987@parse.com> Message-ID: <3D310B6E.7050408@gorge.net> Robert Krten wrote: > > >:-) > >In my case, the failure modes were as follows: > >2 chips failed with: grounding the PRESET line caused the Q >to go high as expected, but when PRESET was left floating Q >went low. [DEC leaves the PRESET and CLEAR lines floating on >various modules, so I consider this a fair test]. > >1 chip failed with insufficient +5 on the Q (or bar-Q, forget >right at this instant) output. The measured output was something >like 1.6V. > > > > That sounds like a design flaw. Even with TTL, unused inputs should be tied to somthing. What was the fanout for the Q /Q on the fried output? Jim Davis. From donm at cts.com Mon Jul 14 01:34:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: NeXT monitor cables In-Reply-To: <65363116-B5A6-11D7-9D8B-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Jul 2003, Ian Primus wrote: > On Sunday, July 13, 2003, at 08:54 PM, william pointon wrote: > > > hey gang - i hope exeryones doing well -- im in need of some next > > stuff to get a couple systems running - > > > > 1 - a video/sound y cable to connect a color nextstation to a soundbox > > and a color monitor > > > > If you find an extra one of these, let me know, I have been in search > of one for a long time. I have a very nice NextStation Color that I > have never been able to use because I don't have the blasted cable. I > dug up the pinouts of all the things the cable connects to - sound box, > monitor, nextstation, and drew up schematics for the cable. I never > built it though, because I wasn't sure if it would work, and I wouldn't > want to risk frying my system because of a hacked together cable. I am > pretty sure that it's close, though, and I can post the schematics if > anyone has a proper cable and would like to multimeter it out and see > if I was right. If we can create a proper set of schematics for this > cable, it would be simple to build. I'm sure there are several of us > out there that need one of these cables. I have in hand the following: 1 2280.01 Next Y-cable 2 4536.00 Next Y-cable It is my understanding - though I cannot at the moment lay hands on my reference for this - that the 2280 is a non-ADB unit, whereas the 4536 will go either way. If you chaps can sort out who needs/wants what and make me a reasonable bid, perhaps we can all come out satisfied on this. Please contact me off list. - don From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Jul 14 01:59:01 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: TIFF to PDF (slightly OT, but for a good cause :-)) In-Reply-To: Jim Battle's message of "Sun, 13 Jul 2003 18:05:54 -0700" References: <200307100100.VAA09995@parse.com> <3F1201F2.1020507@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <200307140633.h6E6XdQq048210@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Jim Battle wrote: > I also know that some months back Eric Smith of this list was working on > something much more flexible than c42pdf, but I don't know where it > stands. You can check for yourself: > > http://tumble.brouhaha.com/ Tumble thinks all the world is a little-endian Linux box. I've hacked on it to make it build and run for FreeBSD/i386 4.8-STABLE, and yes it does need some changes, one being a kludge to deal with the absence of on FreeBSD 4.x, and another because of some expectations of the relationship between open streams and the underlying file descriptors which I suppose are true under Linux but not under FreeBSD. Oh yes, and you will need Bison -- there are some yacc bits that don't build under Berkeley yacc. I have told Eric about my experiences with making it work. He's been traveling so I expect it's buried in his in-box. I'll remind him about it next time I see him. -Frank McConnell From GOOI at oce.nl Mon Jul 14 03:10:01 2003 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: TIFF to PDF (slightly OT, but for a good cause :-)) Message-ID: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0CB7@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Get access to an Oc? 3165 with the scan2file option, or the newer model called DPS100. The machines scan at 52 A4-sized pages per minute at 600 dpi resolution. A3-sized runs at 23-26 pages/minute AFAIK. The output can be selected: either (multi-page) TIFF, or PDF, but the PDF files are *large* because they are TIFF with a PDF wrapper. Acrobat would make those big TIFF files a lot smaller in size, but then with CD-ROMs available, size only matters if you need to download from the 'Net. I could scan them to a number of PDF's described above, but you need to ship the doc to The Netherlands, and pay for the return shipment, if you want them back. And you do! I am only interested in PDP-11. If I start collecting -8's, I will definately run out of space as many of us, fighting the never-ending battle for more space. - Henk. > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Krten [mailto:root@parse.com] > Sent: donderdag 10 juli 2003 3:00 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: TIFF to PDF (slightly OT, but for a good cause :-)) > > > I have the chance to pay some money and get my 17x22" PDP-8/I > schematics > scanned, but they only offer TIFF output. These will be > scanned in 400 DPI > mode and put on the web. These are a newer revision than the > ones posted > on the web. > > What I'd *really* like to do is convert them from TIFF to PDF > and bind them > into multi-page PDFs instead of the one-per-page TIFF files > that I'll get > from the scanning house. > > Any volunteers? Suggestions for *free* software than runs on > FreeBSD or, worst > case, Windoze? > > Cheers, > -RK > > -- > Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. > Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! From nedry at mail.bedlambells.com Mon Jul 14 04:04:00 2003 From: nedry at mail.bedlambells.com (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: Old Word Processors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030714095850.022b39a0@mail.bedlambells.com> I can still remember screaming at my father (I must have been 13 at time time) "it's CTRL-S to save, and CTRL-L to load. How could they make it simpler for you?" when he was trying to use Applewriter //e, a very nice, full featured, non-WYSIWYG word processor. Good old . formatting commands. At 09:21 11/07/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Hi guys.... >I like that reference to edlin by Joe.... >Now that was some pain in the ass WP.... 8*) >How about Multimate for DOS.... >I used it for years, it was great! > >I think I'm getting OLD 8*) > >Doug Taylor > >PS: Hey Joe I still got my MDS 825 in the basement 8*) [---------] "Homer, we don't have to have sex." "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." "Deserts aren't always right Homer." "But they're so delicious." Website: retrobbs.org BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org [---------] From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Jul 14 04:49:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: TIFF to PDF (slightly OT, but for a good cause :-)) In-Reply-To: <200307100100.VAA09995@parse.com>; from root@parse.com on Thu, Jul 10, 2003 at 03:00:08 CEST References: <200307100100.VAA09995@parse.com> Message-ID: <20030714111043.Z327456@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.07.10 03:00 Robert Krten wrote: > What I'd *really* like to do is convert them from TIFF to PDF and bind > them into multi-page PDFs instead of the one-per-page TIFF files that > I'll get from the scanning house. I use somthing like tiffcp -c g4 *.tiff all.tiff tiff2ps -a -2 all.tiff | ps2pdf - all.pdf The tiff tools are from the tiff / libtiff package that is in the *BSD port / pkgsrc system. ps2pdf is from Ghostscript. G4 compression has a very good compression ratio, but works only with black / white images. As you have schematics black / white would be OK. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Mon Jul 14 04:51:06 2003 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore Sinding Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: Macintosh Disks Message-ID: Hey all! I recently got a machine (that is the same or looks similar to http://www.ac-scanmac.dk/apple_museum/1995/histo_powermac5200.html ), and I wanted to get it up on the internet. I have both a Sportster 28.8 with mac adapter and an original GeoPort. Does anyone have OS installation disks for this beauty? I think it ran 7.5.5 or something, but OS8 disks are welcome (If they run on it that is - - do they?) It has 32 MB ram, and a 1,6GB HD. Thanks in advance! ______________________ |Tore Sinding Bekkedal| |toresbe@ifi.uio.no | |+47 91 85 95 08 \_________________________ ------------------------------------------------/ From jbmcb at hotmail.com Mon Jul 14 08:13:00 2003 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: Detroit garage sale finds References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0CB7@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Message-ID: Once every few years the City of Detroit (as it were) has a huge "Garage Sale" at Cobo Hall, where they have the auto show and other gigantic conventions. This was the first in eight years so they had a lot of stuff left over. I just found out about it the last second, and managed to make it there with two hours before they closed. I picked up a Unisys Aquantas P166 "Thin client" which is pretty neat, and a box of Unisys/Burroughs disks with some OS called "BTOS" but there was a ton of stuff I couldn't haul home as I was limited to what I could carry. Among them were: An IBM 5110 PC. Damn I wanted that thing... Several big iron boxes from a Burroughs mainframe. Lots of Xerox workstations Some AT&T PC 6110, or whatever those freaky Unix PC's were. An OLD Intergraph CAD workstation, the all in one jobber with two monitors and a HUGE tablet housed in a monstorous box. Literally MOUNTAINS of old PC's and workstations, most of them stripped apart. I picked up a few Pentium Pro's to add to my chip collection out of a Compaq box that looked like it had been hit by a bus. I'll try to post pics soon. Good luck hunting! From cb at mythtech.net Mon Jul 14 08:27:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: Macintosh Disks Message-ID: >I recently got a machine (that is the same or looks similar to >http://www.ac-scanmac.dk/apple_museum/1995/histo_powermac5200.html ), and >I wanted to get it up on the internet. I have both a Sportster 28.8 with >mac adapter and an original GeoPort. > >Does anyone have OS installation disks for this beauty? I think it ran >7.5.5 or something, but OS8 disks are welcome (If they run on it that is - >- do they?) > >It has 32 MB ram, and a 1,6GB HD. You can get System 7.5.3 and the 7.5.5 updater for free from Apple's web site. I recommend going to at least 7.5.5 (don't stop at .3 as it is buggy) -chris From MTPro at aol.com Mon Jul 14 09:51:00 2003 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: Anybody want to buy a GEM? Message-ID: <1FAC59DF.6DF27B14.0000EF7A@aol.com> I have three most excellent copies of Digital Research's superior windowing environment, GEM. Very cool, these are the original disks, though I don't know if they were OEM or commercial ones. I installed the 2.1 and 2.2 versions on my original Compaq Portable - with 640K RAM and a 32MB internal HardCard hard drive. The disks are in excellent condition and GEM installed easily. I am not able to do much to check it out though, as I don't have a mouse for the machine. I have not tried the 3.0 version, but can if someone has an interest. How about $15 each set plus shipping? I need to sell off some stuff, so please reply directly to me. I also have a copy of GEM Paint and GEM Publisher. Oh, anyone need Windows 286? Thanks, David Greelish GEM was Digital Research's GUI (or a WIMP in the original), written in the 1980s. It stands for Graphical Environment Manager, and was written by Lee Lorenzen who had just left Xerox PARC. Some GEM history: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=1187 From jrasite at eoni.com Mon Jul 14 10:22:01 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: Macintosh Disks (Long reply!) References: Message-ID: <3F12C9DC.9040706@eoni.com> With System 7.5, the internet stuff came on a seperate disk. Apple Internet Connection Kit. The CD contains the following files: Apple Internet Connection Kit CD Extras: InterSLIP" SimpleText InterSLIP Installer SimpleText Documentation: Claris Emailer.pdf Getting Started Manual MacPing.txt.pdf MacTelnet.pdf Netscape Navigator Handbook.pdf NewsWatcher Doc.pdf Installer Internet Connection Kit: Apple Internet Conn Kit Guide Apple Internet Dialer Internet Applications: Claris Emailer Folder: Fetch: NCSA Telnet: Netscape NewsWatcher Known Incompatibilities License Netscape Navigator" 2.0 Netscape ?: Plug-ins: Read Me! Internet Utilities: Adobe Acrobat: Apple Internet Status: DropStuff": Internet Config: MacPing": QuickTime/QTVR: RealAudio: Sparkle: StuffIt Expander": ReadMe System Folder Items: Apple Guide: Apple Guide ObjectSupportLib Config PPP: Config PPP PPP Preferences Fonts: Adobe Sans MM Adobe Serif MM AdobeSanMM AdobeSerMM GX: Adobe Sans MM Adobe Serif MM Symbol Zapf Dingbats Symbo ZapfDin Symbol Zapf Dingbats Internet Dialer Folder: Internet Dialer Prefs Modem Information PPP reg server Launcher: Launcher Launcher Preferences MacTCP: Hosts MacTCP MacTCP Prep MacTCP Token Ring Extension Release Notes QuickTime": About QuickTime 2.1 QuickTime" QuickTime" Musical Instruments QuickTime" PowerPlug Read Me First Sound Manager: ReadMe Sound Sound Manager Sound Manager Read Me You can probably find most of the files at: (Note: In the above list, if the filename is followed by a colon, it inticates that that filename is a folder. The items that innediately follow are the contents of that folder.) Have fun. Jim chris wrote: >>I recently got a machine (that is the same or looks similar to >>http://www.ac-scanmac.dk/apple_museum/1995/histo_powermac5200.html ), and >>I wanted to get it up on the internet. I have both a Sportster 28.8 with >>mac adapter and an original GeoPort. >> >>Does anyone have OS installation disks for this beauty? I think it ran >>7.5.5 or something, but OS8 disks are welcome (If they run on it that is - >>- do they?) From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon Jul 14 11:20:01 2003 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: Tymshare model ASR-33s?? In-Reply-To: <03071220514212@jfcl.com> References: <03071220514212@jfcl.com> Message-ID: <20030714091448.X31414@agora.rdrop.com> On Sat, 12 Jul 2003, Bob Armstrong wrote: > Has anybody ever seen a special Tymshare model ASR-33? It's more or less > a standard ASR-33, except that it has a three button CCU and the silver > plate on the front (the one which would ordinarily have the Teletype name > and logo) is painted blue (DECsystem-10 blue, I would imagine!) and lettered > "Tymshare | Time Sharing Terminal." I remember them well, and while I don't have one of those particular units, I do have the blue 'faceplace' off of the front. Keep wondering which came first: the 'Tymshare' terminals, or the 'Time Tunnel' TV show. Why? The 'hourglass' logo on each is curiously similar... -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon Jul 14 11:44:00 2003 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: updates... Message-ID: <20030714093805.H31414@agora.rdrop.com> some new updates on the catalog page: www.rdrop.com/~jimw Item 124 might get someones attention... Then there will be a slight break in the updates for a week or two while I get caught up with shipping, moving, and other localized annoyances... Thanks; -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon Jul 14 12:31:00 2003 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: 1970's digitizer tablets Message-ID: <958B228E6A626242A3FEAB621C4C933550A995@exch2000.cmh.internal> Sellam wrote: > >In the late 1970s, AT&T's Bell Labs invented the "electronic blackboard". >It was basically a digitizing tablet that allowed one to draw and transmit >images. >Might anyone know where one exists? How about similar products prior to >December 1979? When was the first digitizing tablet invented? >This is research I'm conducting for a client, so any useful leads will be >compensated. >Thanks! I know we had a graphics tablet at the Bioengineering Program at the University of Missouri in 1975. It was a GrafPen Model (SP?). It consisted of two arrays of microphones along the x and y axis of a plexiglas tablet. MMMMMMMMMMMM M M M M M M M There was a spark gap pen that generated a click and the microphones could locate the point on the tablet. It could be flipped right or left handed because your hand/arm could block the sound from the microphones. It had a digital readout of the x and y coordinates. There was also a serial interface which we connected to our PDP-11/20. We placed the tablet over a illuminated light box with a chest radiograph on it and then we able to outline the margins of the human heart on the film. The data was used in a project to compute the shape of the heart and attempt to catagorize the type of congenital heart defect. I used it to place boxes on the film to look at pulmonary vascularity. You could imput points in a point by point mode or constant input mode. You could then scale the points to be displayed on a graphics display such as a RAMTEK system. We normally would draw and display on top of the digitized film image to make sure we were registered correctly. There were lots of work related and fun related stuff the Grad students used to system for. There was a 3-dimensional model available later. References found online: Grafpen GP-7 sonic digitiser, manufactured by Science Accessory Corporation. 1968 - Science Accessories Corporation (later SAC) releases sonic digitizer. GSIZE/SIZE documentation ... SIZE has been written to work with a GP-7 Grafbar Sonic Digitizer, manufactured by Science Accessories Corporation, 970 Kings Highway West, Southport ... biochem.otago.ac.nz/resource/gsize_doc.html - 33k - Cached - Similar pages Mike From arcarlini at iee.org Mon Jul 14 13:00:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: TIFF to PDF (slightly OT, but for a good cause :-)) In-Reply-To: <200307100100.VAA09995@parse.com> Message-ID: <001c01c34a31$34c0f660$5b01a8c0@athlon> > I have the chance to pay some money and get my 17x22" PDP-8/I > schematics scanned, but they only offer TIFF output. These > will be scanned in 400 DPI mode and put on the web. These > are a newer revision than the ones posted on the web. > What I'd *really* like to do is convert them from TIFF to PDF > and bind them into multi-page PDFs instead of the > one-per-page TIFF files that I'll get from the scanning house. 1-bit depth works for all text that I've come across. Sometimes 8-bit or so helps with photos, but even there I used to scan in 1-bit and rescan those few pages that did not come out too well. This may not be an option for you. Once you have the final tiffs, you can convert to G4-encoded TIFF (maybe they'll come that way anyway if you ask nicely, worth a try since you are paying!) > Any volunteers? Suggestions for *free* software than runs on > FreeBSD or, worst case, Windoze? Well c4topdf will turn G4 encoded TIFF into multipage PDF. It may turn non-G4 TIFF into G4-TIFF on the fly too, but if it does not, then ImageMagik will (but seems dreadfully slow to me). I used Acrobat 5 to do TIFF->G4-TIFF and Acrobat 4 to do multiple TIFFs to one PDF, but then I was doing this in the office so I didn't have to shell out for the s/w. Here in the UK, A3 (really 11x17) scanners are coming down to reasonable levels. It might be cheaper to buy a scanner and stand in front of it for an hour than pay commercial rates to get the job done. Even better, you might find someone on list offering to do the job if you pay the return postage (I'd offer but I'm (probably) not in the right continent and, more importantly, I no longer have access to a suitable sheet-feed scanner). Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From esharpe at uswest.net Mon Jul 14 13:16:00 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: TIFF to PDF (slightly OT, but for a good cause :-)) References: <001c01c34a31$34c0f660$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <00da01c34a3b$cd360020$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> there was a time circuit city was selling a 11x 17 scanner for 88 dollars... it was slow will not run under xp but does work under 98. maybe it was a mustek a3? I am sure anyone that upgraded to xp has one sitting on the shelf and it is unusable to them. I am going to bring ours back out to scan large magazine ads to go in some of the radio and computer displays here... will have to throw together an old system running 98 se though as it WILL NOT run on xp here. Thanks! Ed Sharpe Archivist for SMECC See the Southwest Museum of Engineering, Communications and Computation online at: http://www.smecc.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Antonio Carlini" To: Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 10:56 AM Subject: RE: TIFF to PDF (slightly OT, but for a good cause :-)) > > I have the chance to pay some money and get my 17x22" PDP-8/I > > schematics scanned, but they only offer TIFF output. These > > will be scanned in 400 DPI mode and put on the web. These > > are a newer revision than the ones posted on the web. > > > What I'd *really* like to do is convert them from TIFF to PDF > > and bind them into multi-page PDFs instead of the > > one-per-page TIFF files that I'll get from the scanning house. > > 1-bit depth works for all text that I've come across. Sometimes > 8-bit or so helps with photos, but even there I used to scan in > 1-bit and rescan those few pages that did not come out too well. > This may not be an option for you. > > Once you have the final tiffs, you can convert to G4-encoded > TIFF (maybe they'll come that way anyway if you ask nicely, > worth a try since you are paying!) > > > Any volunteers? Suggestions for *free* software than runs on > > FreeBSD or, worst case, Windoze? > > Well c4topdf will turn G4 encoded TIFF into multipage PDF. It may > turn non-G4 TIFF into G4-TIFF on the fly too, but if it does not, > then ImageMagik will (but seems dreadfully slow to me). > > I used Acrobat 5 to do TIFF->G4-TIFF and Acrobat 4 to do multiple > TIFFs to one PDF, but then I was doing this in the office so I > didn't have to shell out for the s/w. > > Here in the UK, A3 (really 11x17) scanners are coming down to > reasonable levels. It might be cheaper to buy a scanner and > stand in front of it for an hour than pay commercial rates > to get the job done. Even better, you might find someone > on list offering to do the job if you pay the return > postage (I'd offer but I'm (probably) not in the right > continent and, more importantly, I no longer have access to > a suitable sheet-feed scanner). > > Antonio > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From MTPro at aol.com Mon Jul 14 13:25:01 2003 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: Apple 5MB Profile Hard Drive For Sale Message-ID: <5E4BA5C0.57E77CAA.0000EF7A@aol.com> I have examined the drive both internally and externally and it is in great shape. From external inspection, it appears to operate properly. It makes the right sounds, it's spinning in there, the light blinks then goes steady, etc. My Lisa has a bad floppy drive and the internal hard drive does not boot it. This Profile would not boot it either. This could be that it is empty, or it could be formatted to Apple ][, Apple ///, etc. Anyway, I think it works, but I can't guarantee it. Comes with power cord and original data cable. $60 plus shipping with insurance please. Best, David From arcarlini at iee.org Mon Jul 14 13:31:01 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: TIFF to PDF (slightly OT, but for a good cause :-)) In-Reply-To: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0CB7@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Message-ID: <001f01c34a35$82ddec50$5b01a8c0@athlon> > would make those big TIFF files a lot smaller in size, but > then with CD-ROMs available, size only matters if you need to > download from the 'Net. I humbly beg to differ. The DEC stuff I've amassed weighs in at about 40 CDs so far (and most of those will be at least 680MB - I hate wasted space :-) ). Bitonal scanning and G4-encoding buys a good deal of saved space. I keep meaning to invest in a DVD-R but I've been fooled by the "C3D is just around the corner" brigade (for about 3 years now ...) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 14 13:33:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: HP Integral Message-ID: Last week I purchased an HP Integral :-). For those who've not heard of it, it's a mains-powered portable with a 68000 processor that runs HP-UX :-). Of course I've taken it apart. There are 2 main PCBs, one each side of a vertically-mounted chassis plate. 'Logic A' on the rear of the plate contains the CPU, 512K RAM (and controller), the 'MMU' (a simple RAM mapping circuit), address decoders, bus buffers, and the HP-HIL port (for the keyboard and optional mouse). 'Logic B' on the front of the plate contains the real time clock, floppy controller, beeper (controller by an odd NatSemi sound chip, COP452 I think - -I have the datasheet), HPIB interface and the Thinkjet printer electronics (with a 1LB£ HPIL chip to link the Thinkjet CPU to the 68000 bus). Also in the case is a Sony full-height 600rpm 3.5" floppy drive, a SMPSU, the Thinkjet mechanics, a Sharp dot-matrix display and the expansion backplane (2 slots, using DIN41612 connectors). The system ROMs are in a plastic cartridge that plugs into the Logic A PCB. There's a PCB in said cartridge containing 4 EPROMS (128K bytes each) and a TTL glue chip. It's obvious a daughterboard containing another 4 EPROMs could be fitted in the cartridge. The EPORMs I have contain the HP-UX Kernel and PAM (a rather lusing shell). I am told daughterboards containing HP Technical BASIC (which I have on floppy) and some more unix commands existed. The 2 expansion slots on my machine contain a 1M RAM card and an interface for an external expansion chassis which I don't have. The latter has a 64 pin Blue Ribbon connector on it (I've never seen one this large!) which I guess is just a buffered version of the normal expansion bus. OK, a few questions. I asusem that ROM daugtherboards are impossible to obtain, but has anyone dumped the ROMS from one? Any ideas if it's ever possible to find the GPIO and serial interface cards for these machines? Any software out there on the net for it? I have the normal HP disk set (System disk, HP-UX commands (2 disks), Utilities, Diagnostics, Tutor, and NP Technical BASIC). Anything else I should know about it? -tony From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon Jul 14 13:50:00 2003 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: TIFF to PDF (slightly OT, but for a good cause :-)) Message-ID: <958B228E6A626242A3FEAB621C4C933550A996@exch2000.cmh.internal> PDF creation I think there is a tool under imagemagick called convert that can take a TIFF and create PDF. I think there are both Unix and Windows versions available. Mike From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jul 14 13:58:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: 1970's digitizer tablets In-Reply-To: <958B228E6A626242A3FEAB621C4C933550A995@exch2000.cmh.internal> References: <958B228E6A626242A3FEAB621C4C933550A995@exch2000.cmh.internal> Message-ID: <20030714105515.B52279@newshell.lmi.net> > Sellam wrote: > >In the late 1970s, AT&T's Bell Labs invented the "electronic blackboard". > >It was basically a digitizing tablet that allowed one to draw and transmit > >images. > >Might anyone know where one exists? How about similar products prior to > >December 1979? When was the first digitizing tablet invented? > >This is research I'm conducting for a client, so any useful leads will be > >compensated. > >Thanks! On Mon, 14 Jul 2003, McFadden, Mike wrote: > I know we had a graphics tablet at the Bioengineering Program at the University > of Missouri in 1975. It was a GrafPen Model (SP?). It consisted of two arrays of LOTS of digitizers existed back then. Anyone familiar with anything prior to the Gerber Data Digitizer in 1970? (about a meter square, horizontal and vertical crosshairs, output directly into a 026 punch) Anyone HAVE one? or something earlier? The claim to have invented "electronic blackboard" has to be narrowed SUBSTANTIALLY, as all that they did was enlarge existing digitizers to produce one suitable for classroom/conference room wall. It was an issue of engineering, not invention. What about an under $10 one for a MICROCOMPUTER/PERSONAL COMPUTER? I will lay claim to the dubious honor of inventing that. (even though it was so obvious that MANY people must have done so) In 1983, I wanted a digitizer for blackboards. As a "proof of concept", I attached a one foot long piece of clear plastic (a ruler) to the shaft of a potentiometer. At the other end of it I attached another potentiometer, with another foot long piece of clear plastic attached to the shaft of that one. That made for an upper arm hinged at the edge of the board with a potentiometer, and a forearm hinged at the end of that with a potentiometer at the "elbow". I connected the potentiometers and a "fire" button to a DA15, and plugged that into the joystick board ("Analog Input Board") of a PC. (actually, for a while, I had a DIN connector on it for Coco). I could read the resistance of the two pots to know the "shoulder" and "elbow" angles, and with some trivial trigonometry in software, knew the location of the "hand". (You know the angle of the shoulder, the length of the upper arm, the angle of the elbow, and the length of the forearm) At the hand end, I had a hole, so that it could be used for digitizing existing materials, by lining up the hole and pressing the fire button, or with a pen through the hole and "sampling" in a loop, it could do a horrendously bad job of digitizing handwriting. I intended to redo it with yardsticks for blackboards (with a chalk sized hole in the hand), but the mechanical issues of a yardstick flopping around on the end of another yardstick were a bit much. And a usable one would require better resolution of the analog to digital circuitry than I could get out of the 6 bits per pot using the IBM joystick board. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jul 14 14:06:01 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: TIFF to PDF (slightly OT, but for a good cause :-)) In-Reply-To: <958B228E6A626242A3FEAB621C4C933550A996@exch2000.cmh.internal> References: <958B228E6A626242A3FEAB621C4C933550A996@exch2000.cmh.internal> Message-ID: <3F12FE52.2070102@mdrconsult.com> McFadden, Mike wrote: > PDF creation > I think there is a tool under imagemagick called convert > that can take a TIFF and create PDF. > I think there are both Unix and Windows versions available. Image magick does conversions very nicely, but AFAICT it won't handle combining multiple tiffs into a single document. Doc From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Jul 14 14:18:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: 1970's digitizer tablets Message-ID: There were plans published in BYTE (IIRC) for just such a digitizer. I don't remember the issue, but the time frome would have been early 1980's. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Fred Cisin [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 1:53 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE:1970's digitizer tablets What about an under $10 one for a MICROCOMPUTER/PERSONAL COMPUTER? I will lay claim to the dubious honor of inventing that. (even though it was so obvious that MANY people must have done so) In 1983, I wanted a digitizer for blackboards. As a "proof of concept", I attached a one foot long piece of clear plastic (a ruler) to the shaft of a potentiometer. At the other end of it I attached another potentiometer, with another foot long piece of clear plastic attached to the shaft of that one. That made for an upper arm hinged at the edge of the board with a potentiometer, and a forearm hinged at the end of that with a potentiometer at the "elbow". -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jul 14 14:39:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: OT: Time In-Reply-To: <20030714091448.X31414@agora.rdrop.com> References: <03071220514212@jfcl.com> <20030714091448.X31414@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <20030714123331.E52849@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 14 Jul 2003, James Willing wrote: > Keep wondering which came first: the 'Tymshare' terminals, or the 'Time > Tunnel' TV show. Why? The 'hourglass' logo on each is curiously > similar... Their probably both based on the Windoze default cursor. From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jul 14 14:56:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: OT: Time In-Reply-To: <20030714123331.E52849@newshell.lmi.net> References: <03071220514212@jfcl.com> <20030714091448.X31414@agora.rdrop.com> <20030714123331.E52849@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <20030714124923.K53422@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 14 Jul 2003, Fred Cisin wrote: > On Mon, 14 Jul 2003, James Willing wrote: > > Keep wondering which came first: the 'Tymshare' terminals, or the 'Time > > Tunnel' TV show. Why? The 'hourglass' logo on each is curiously > > similar... > > Their probably both based on the Windoze default cursor. That is "THEY'RE"! no excuse. Sorry. I'll try to pay attention to what I'm typing. From cmurray at eagle.ca Mon Jul 14 16:47:00 2003 From: cmurray at eagle.ca (Murray McCullough) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: Old Word Processors and Now References: <20030714170001.4026.8150.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3F1323E0.C995B018@eagle.ca> Well Mark, I'm still teaching word processing and the short cuts are CTRL-S and CTRL-L and I mention it most every day. I can remember using an Applewiter-clone and the formatting commands haven't chnaged. Why do away with things that work and make sense even if students forget them!!! I try not to scream though. Not good for a teacher. Murray > > Message: 9 > Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:00:20 +0100 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > From: Mark Firestone > Subject: Re: Old Word Processors > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > I can still remember screaming at my father (I must have been 13 at time > time) "it's CTRL-S to save, and CTRL-L to load. How could they make it > simpler for you?" when he was trying to use Applewriter //e, a very nice, > full featured, non-WYSIWYG word processor. Good old . formatting commands. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jul 14 16:55:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: Can anyone id these HP ICs? In-Reply-To: <010201c349b1$f2e5a080$0100a8c0@SONYDIGITALED> References: <3.0.6.16.20030710202035.426f92f8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030714175226.5a5fb846@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Ed, I posted a picture at . I unplugged the two ICs in the top RH corner and turned them over so that you can see the bottom and side of the ICs and the heat sink that the IC normally sits on. There is a depression in the bottom of the IC case and a rasied pad on the heatsink that fits into the depression. I've never seen anything like this before! Note the delay line (?) on the LH side of the card. Sorry I couldn't get a better picture. This is as close as I could get with my camera. Joe At 07:45 PM 7/13/03 -0700, you wrote: >if you email me a scan of the card I may know what it is. > >Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC > >Please check our web site at > http://www.smecc.org >to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we >buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. > >address: > > coury house / smecc >5802 w palmaire ave >glendale az 85301 > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe" >To: >Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 8:20 PM >Subject: Can anyone id these HP ICs? > > >> Picked up an HP circuit card today with some NEAT looking ICs. The ICs >> are 16 pin DIP packages but are made entirely of gold and ceramic. They >> have a gold bottom plate then a layer of white ceramic with what appears >to >> be a gold ring around the top then a gold lid soldered to that. The legs >> are also all gold. They sit on gold plates that are slightly smalled than >> the ICs and the plates have a single leg coming off of each end that is >> soldered to the circuit board. The IC legs don't even mount in regular IC >> sockets instead there is a gold leaf terminal for each leg. I've never >seen >> that type of terminals used for ICs before but HP does use them for >> individual wires in some of their products. The wires to the card readers >> in the HP-67 and HP-41 card readers are connected that way. I have no idea >> what this card came out of other than it's made by HP. The part number >> that's on it doesn't help id it either. There are 12 of these strange >> looking ICs on the card. They have HP logos and all the part number >> 1820-2000, 1820-1999 or 1820-0753. I've searched the net for those numbers >> and checked the on-line HP part number cross references but didn't find >> anything. However the 1820 prefix usually indicates that the part uses TTL >> levels. >> >> Any ideas? >> >> Joe From esharpe at uswest.net Mon Jul 14 17:30:01 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: TIFF to PDF (slightly OT, but for a good cause :-)) SCANNER INFO FOR 11X17 References: <001c01c34a31$34c0f660$5b01a8c0@athlon> <00da01c34a3b$cd360020$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: <016d01c34a5f$4c2445e0$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> HERE FOLKS... HERE IS THE NEW VERSION OF THE A3 http://www.ausmedia.com.au/a3.htm HERE IS A UK SOURCE FOR THE USB http://computing.kelkoo.co.uk/b/a/sbs/uk/scanners/name/a3+scanner/type/Scanner/manufacturer/Mustek/115401.html THE OLD PARALLEL VERSION SHOULD BE LAYING AROUND LIKE CORDWOOD CHECK COMPUTER SWAPMEETS. Thanks! Ed Sharpe Archivist for SMECC See the Southwest Museum of Engineering, Communications and Computation online at: http://www.smecc.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Sharpe" To: Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 12:11 PM Subject: Re: TIFF to PDF (slightly OT, but for a good cause :-)) > there was a time circuit city was selling a 11x 17 scanner for 88 > dollars... it was slow will not run under xp but does work under 98. maybe > it was a mustek a3? > > I am sure anyone that upgraded to xp has one sitting on the shelf and it is > unusable to them. > > I am going to bring ours back out to scan large magazine ads to go in some > of the radio and computer displays here... will have to throw together an > old system running 98 se though as it WILL NOT run on xp here. > > Thanks! > > Ed Sharpe Archivist for SMECC > > See the Southwest Museum of Engineering, Communications and Computation > online at: > http://www.smecc.org > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Antonio Carlini" > To: > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 10:56 AM > Subject: RE: TIFF to PDF (slightly OT, but for a good cause :-)) > > > > > I have the chance to pay some money and get my 17x22" PDP-8/I > > > schematics scanned, but they only offer TIFF output. These > > > will be scanned in 400 DPI mode and put on the web. These > > > are a newer revision than the ones posted on the web. > > > > > What I'd *really* like to do is convert them from TIFF to PDF > > > and bind them into multi-page PDFs instead of the > > > one-per-page TIFF files that I'll get from the scanning house. > > > > 1-bit depth works for all text that I've come across. Sometimes > > 8-bit or so helps with photos, but even there I used to scan in > > 1-bit and rescan those few pages that did not come out too well. > > This may not be an option for you. > > > > Once you have the final tiffs, you can convert to G4-encoded > > TIFF (maybe they'll come that way anyway if you ask nicely, > > worth a try since you are paying!) > > > > > Any volunteers? Suggestions for *free* software than runs on > > > FreeBSD or, worst case, Windoze? > > > > Well c4topdf will turn G4 encoded TIFF into multipage PDF. It may > > turn non-G4 TIFF into G4-TIFF on the fly too, but if it does not, > > then ImageMagik will (but seems dreadfully slow to me). > > > > I used Acrobat 5 to do TIFF->G4-TIFF and Acrobat 4 to do multiple > > TIFFs to one PDF, but then I was doing this in the office so I > > didn't have to shell out for the s/w. > > > > Here in the UK, A3 (really 11x17) scanners are coming down to > > reasonable levels. It might be cheaper to buy a scanner and > > stand in front of it for an hour than pay commercial rates > > to get the job done. Even better, you might find someone > > on list offering to do the job if you pay the return > > postage (I'd offer but I'm (probably) not in the right > > continent and, more importantly, I no longer have access to > > a suitable sheet-feed scanner). > > > > Antonio > > > > -- > > > > --------------- > > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jul 14 17:35:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: 1970's digitizer tablets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030714152519.H54183@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 14 Jul 2003, Feldman, Robert wrote: > There were plans published in BYTE (IIRC) for just such a digitizer. I > don't remember the issue, but the time frome would have been early > 1980's. Yep That's why I say: > it was so obvious that MANY people must have done so) The patentable "invention" would not be the overall concept, but merely what methods were chosen to implement it. For example, Mimio with transmitters in marking pen holders, and a receiver that suction cupped to a white board. From kth at srv.net Mon Jul 14 17:53:01 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: TIFF to PDF (slightly OT, but for a good cause :-)) References: <958B228E6A626242A3FEAB621C4C933550A996@exch2000.cmh.internal> Message-ID: <3F133DB2.40808@srv.net> McFadden, Mike wrote: >PDF creation >I think there is a tool under imagemagick called convert >that can take a TIFF and create PDF. >I think there are both Unix and Windows versions available. >Mike > > Under Linux, you can do the following to create a PDF from a bunch of TIFF images. Assuming the original files are named t1-*.tif (change for different file names) tiffcp t1-*.tif t1.tif tiff2ps -a t1.tif > t1.ps ps2pdf t1.ps t1.pdf rm t1.tif rm t1.ps tiffcp converts the multiple files into a single multi-image tiff file. tiff2ps converts this multi-image tiff file into postscript (very large file) ps2pdf converts the postscript file into a PDF. rm kills the intermediate files. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jul 14 17:58:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: FA: Prototype Rockwell ICs, '55 T-Bird manuals, Sun/Solaris, AIM-65, PDP-8, Tektronix manuals Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030714185516.19976d46@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> FA: Prototype Rockwell ICs, '55 - '56 T-Bird manuals, Sun/Solaris, AIM-65, PDP-8, Tektronix, Mostek Z-80 manuals and three new S-100 sockets. Just listed a whole passle of stuff on E-bay. See From charlesmorris at direcway.com Mon Jul 14 18:11:00 2003 From: charlesmorris at direcway.com (Charles) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: impossible 7482's In-Reply-To: <20030714024214.98460.23049.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20030714024214.98460.23049.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 21:42:14 -0500, you wrote: >> that going. Oh, and a 7482 adder, which was impossible to find [1]... >> >> [1] I do mean _impossible_. I ended up using part of a 7483 that I stuck >> to the flip-chip PCB dead-bug style and wired to the holes where the >> 7482 should have been. Runs fine... > >You know what happens when someone says impossible... http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?handler=displayproduct&&lstdispproductid=258774 As of today, they have 426 in stock for $2.70 each... it wasn't impossible 6 mo. ago either when I needed one on an M220 card. Am I overlooking something? -Charles From kenziem at sympatico.ca Mon Jul 14 18:28:00 2003 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: Apple clone Message-ID: <200307141923.31258.kenziem@sympatico.ca> I was given an interesting machine on the weekend. I was told it was an Apple clone from Saudi Arabia. One of the manuals that came with it says micom, but it doesn't look like my other one which is in a apple II style case with the built in keyboard. This is in what from the front looks like a PC clone with the dual floppies, and an external keyboard which is missing. http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600/clone.jpg This time I set the camera to the lowest setting so the picture should be a little easier to view. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jul 14 19:07:01 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: 1970's digitizer tablets In-Reply-To: Fred Cisin "RE:1970's digitizer tablets" (Jul 14, 11:53) References: <958B228E6A626242A3FEAB621C4C933550A995@exch2000.cmh.internal> <20030714105515.B52279@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <10307150102.ZM8646@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 14, 11:53, Fred Cisin wrote: > What about an under $10 one for a MICROCOMPUTER/PERSONAL COMPUTER? > I will lay claim to the dubious honor of inventing that. (even though > it was so obvious that MANY people must have done so) > In 1983, I wanted a digitizer for blackboards. As a "proof of > concept", I attached a one foot long piece of clear plastic (a > ruler) to the shaft of a potentiometer. At the other end of it > I attached another potentiometer, with another foot long piece > of clear plastic attached to the shaft of that one. That made > for an upper arm hinged at the edge of the board with a > potentiometer, and a forearm hinged at the end of that with a > potentiometer at the "elbow". There was a very similar device around in the early 1980s; I can't remember what it was called but it hooked up to one of the machines at the college I worked in then, so it must have been for a BBC Micro (around 1983) or an Apple ][ or PET (about 1982). Its operational area was about an A4 sheet. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Jul 14 23:20:01 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: Can anyone id these HP ICs? References: <3.0.6.16.20030710202035.426f92f8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030714175226.5a5fb846@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3F138029.3090505@tiac.net> ECL ram chips from the insides of a arbitrary waveform generator? Am I close? Joe wrote: >Hi Ed, > > I posted a picture at . >I unplugged the two ICs in the top RH corner and turned them over so that >you can see the bottom and side of the ICs and the heat sink that the IC >normally sits on. There is a depression in the bottom of the IC case and a >rasied pad on the heatsink that fits into the depression. I've never seen >anything like this before! Note the delay line (?) on the LH side of the >card. Sorry I couldn't get a better picture. This is as close as I could >get with my camera. > > Joe > > >At 07:45 PM 7/13/03 -0700, you wrote: > >>if you email me a scan of the card I may know what it is. >> >>Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC >> >>Please check our web site at >>http://www.smecc.org >>to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we >>buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. >> >>address: >> >>coury house / smecc >>5802 w palmaire ave >>glendale az 85301 >> >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Joe" >>To: >>Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 8:20 PM >>Subject: Can anyone id these HP ICs? >> >> >>> Picked up an HP circuit card today with some NEAT looking ICs. The ICs >>>are 16 pin DIP packages but are made entirely of gold and ceramic. They >>>have a gold bottom plate then a layer of white ceramic with what appears >>> >>to >> >>>be a gold ring around the top then a gold lid soldered to that. The legs >>>are also all gold. They sit on gold plates that are slightly smalled than >>>the ICs and the plates have a single leg coming off of each end that is >>>soldered to the circuit board. The IC legs don't even mount in regular IC >>>sockets instead there is a gold leaf terminal for each leg. I've never >>> >>seen >> >>>that type of terminals used for ICs before but HP does use them for >>>individual wires in some of their products. The wires to the card readers >>>in the HP-67 and HP-41 card readers are connected that way. I have no idea >>>what this card came out of other than it's made by HP. The part number >>>that's on it doesn't help id it either. There are 12 of these strange >>>looking ICs on the card. They have HP logos and all the part number >>>1820-2000, 1820-1999 or 1820-0753. I've searched the net for those numbers >>>and checked the on-line HP part number cross references but didn't find >>>anything. However the 1820 prefix usually indicates that the part uses TTL >>>levels. >>> >>> Any ideas? >>> >>> Joe From fernande at internet1.net Tue Jul 15 00:48:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: Apple clone In-Reply-To: <200307141923.31258.kenziem@sympatico.ca> References: <200307141923.31258.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <3F139420.5020601@internet1.net> Wow, that's neat. It does look like an XT class case. Do you see any markings on the boards themselves? Is the case truly a converted XT case...... does it have the proper holes/slots etc for an XT? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Mike wrote: > I was given an interesting machine on the weekend. I was told it was an Apple > clone from Saudi Arabia. One of the manuals that came with it says micom, > but it doesn't look like my other one which is in a apple II style case with > the built in keyboard. This is in what from the front looks like a PC clone > with the dual floppies, and an external keyboard which is missing. > > http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600/clone.jpg > > This time I set the camera to the lowest setting so the picture should be a > little easier to view. From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Jul 15 00:59:01 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: Apple clone References: <200307141923.31258.kenziem@sympatico.ca> <3F139420.5020601@internet1.net> Message-ID: <000c01c34a95$87dd0fa0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Huge box for such a small machine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 1:41 AM Subject: Re: Apple clone > Wow, that's neat. It does look like an XT class case. Do you see any > markings on the boards themselves? Is the case truly a converted XT > case...... does it have the proper holes/slots etc for an XT? > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA From jpdavis at gorge.net Tue Jul 15 06:24:00 2003 From: jpdavis at gorge.net (jpdavis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: 1970's digitizer tablets In-Reply-To: <10307150102.ZM8646@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <958B228E6A626242A3FEAB621C4C933550A995@exch2000.cmh.internal> <20030714105515.B52279@newshell.lmi.net> <10307150102.ZM8646@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3F13E2C5.2010402@gorge.net> Peter Turnbull wrote: >On Jul 14, 11:53, Fred Cisin wrote: > > > >>What about an under $10 one for a MICROCOMPUTER/PERSONAL COMPUTER? >>I will lay claim to the dubious honor of inventing that. (even though >>it was so obvious that MANY people must have done so) >>In 1983, I wanted a digitizer for blackboards. As a "proof of >>concept", I attached a one foot long piece of clear plastic (a >>ruler) to the shaft of a potentiometer. At the other end of it >>I attached another potentiometer, with another foot long piece >>of clear plastic attached to the shaft of that one. That made >>for an upper arm hinged at the edge of the board with a >>potentiometer, and a forearm hinged at the end of that with a >>potentiometer at the "elbow". >> >> > >There was a very similar device around in the early 1980s; I can't >remember what it was called but it hooked up to one of the machines at >the college I worked in then, so it must have been for a BBC Micro >(around 1983) or an Apple ][ or PET (about 1982). Its operational area >was about an A4 sheet. > > > Anybody else try depositing carbon ( either pencil lead or other substances ) on a flat surface and work out the math to get X-Y? Jim Davis. From jpdavis at gorge.net Tue Jul 15 06:29:01 2003 From: jpdavis at gorge.net (jpdavis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: 1970's digitizer tablets In-Reply-To: <20030714152519.H54183@newshell.lmi.net> References: <20030714152519.H54183@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <3F13E404.2090704@gorge.net> Fred Cisin wrote: >On Mon, 14 Jul 2003, Feldman, Robert wrote: > > >>There were plans published in BYTE (IIRC) for just such a digitizer. I >>don't remember the issue, but the time frome would have been early >>1980's. >> >> > >Yep >That's why I say: > > >>it was so obvious that MANY people must have done so) >> >> > >The patentable "invention" would not be the overall concept, but merely >what methods were chosen to implement it. For example, Mimio with >transmitters in marking pen holders, and a receiver that suction cupped to >a white board. > > > Didn't that use a bar-code style scanning system where the pen color was coded on the side of the pen? A combination of angular measurment for position and reflectance for pen type. Jim Davis From allain at panix.com Tue Jul 15 08:52:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: 1970's digitizer tablets References: <958B228E6A626242A3FEAB621C4C933550A995@exch2000.cmh.internal> <20030714105515.B52279@newshell.lmi.net> <10307150102.ZM8646@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3F13E2C5.2010402@gorge.net> Message-ID: <002001c34ad7$a6baf440$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Anybody else try depositing carbon ( either pencil > lead or other substances ) > on a flat surface and work out the math to get X-Y? More like everybody. The math is not hard at all. With two sample points, you read two voltages, from that mathematically get two circle radii, intersect them and get at most two points. Sample three points and get just the one point with a degree of redundancy to it. I would take the samples by chopping back and forth from the different sampling points. Others may have other methods, I don't claim to know them all. Try finding a premanufactured carbon surface, or antistatic plastic that is partially conductive. Trouble with carbon contact is that once you put paper on top of it you've insulated it, so it is to be used as mouse substitute only. An electromagmetic digitizer can take a paper above it just fine. John A. From dfnr2 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 15 12:28:01 2003 From: dfnr2 at yahoo.com (Dave) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:50 2005 Subject: TIFF to PDF (slightly OT, but for a good Message-ID: <20030715172358.49605.qmail@web9405.mail.yahoo.com> > Image magick does conversions very nicely, but > AFAICT it won't handle combining multiple tiffs into a > single document. > > Doc Actually, it does this very well: To convert a bunch of TIFF files to a single PDF, try the '-adjoing' option to the imagemagick utility "convert": convert -geometry 1600x1200 -colors 32 -colorspace yuv -adjoin *.tiff Similar for jpegs, etc. Dave From swperk at earthlink.net Tue Jul 15 13:00:01 2003 From: swperk at earthlink.net (swperk@earthlink.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: Can anyone id these HP ICs? (Joe) Message-ID: <7661535.1058291758400.JavaMail.nobody@fozzie.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Hi Joe, Your board looks like one of the interpolator cards from an HP 5370A Universal Time Interval Counter. Do you see an "05370-6xxxx" part number on the board anywhere? Message: 14 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:52:26 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org From: Joe Subject: Re: Can anyone id these HP ICs? Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Hi Ed, I posted a picture at . I unplugged the two ICs in the top RH corner and turned them over so that you can see the bottom and side of the ICs and the heat sink that the IC normally sits on. There is a depression in the bottom of the IC case and a rasied pad on the heatsink that fits into the depression. I've never seen anything like this before! Note the delay line (?) on the LH side of the card. Sorry I couldn't get a better picture. This is as close as I could get with my camera. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jul 15 14:57:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: Can anyone id these HP ICs? (Joe) In-Reply-To: <7661535.1058291758400.JavaMail.nobody@fozzie.psp.pas.earth link.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030715155454.451720fa@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Bingo! You're right. It's part number is 05370-60022. I had tried to look up that number but all I found was a scanner with the same PN. Do you have a service manual for this? If so, can you tell me what these parts are? PNs 1820-0753, 1820-2000 and 1820-1999. Joe At 10:55 AM 7/15/03 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Joe, > >Your board looks like one of the interpolator cards from an HP 5370A Universal Time Interval Counter. Do you see an "05370-6xxxx" part number on the board anywhere? > > >Message: 14 >Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:52:26 >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >From: Joe >Subject: Re: Can anyone id these HP ICs? >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >Hi Ed, > > I posted a picture at >. >I unplugged the two ICs in the top RH corner and turned them over so that >you can see the bottom and side of the ICs and the heat sink that the IC >normally sits on. There is a depression in the bottom of the IC case and a >rasied pad on the heatsink that fits into the depression. I've never seen >anything like this before! Note the delay line (?) on the LH side of the >card. Sorry I couldn't get a better picture. This is as close as I could >get with my camera. > > Joe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 15 16:03:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: 1970's digitizer tablets In-Reply-To: <10307150102.ZM8646@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Peter Turnbull" at Jul 15, 3 01:02:35 am Message-ID: > > In 1983, I wanted a digitizer for blackboards. As a "proof of > > concept", I attached a one foot long piece of clear plastic (a > > ruler) to the shaft of a potentiometer. At the other end of it > > I attached another potentiometer, with another foot long piece > > of clear plastic attached to the shaft of that one. That made > > for an upper arm hinged at the edge of the board with a > > potentiometer, and a forearm hinged at the end of that with a > > potentiometer at the "elbow". > > There was a very similar device around in the early 1980s; I can't > remember what it was called but it hooked up to one of the machines at > the college I worked in then, so it must have been for a BBC Micro > (around 1983) or an Apple ][ or PET (about 1982). Its operational area > was about an A4 sheet. One of the projects in the first Fischer Technik Robotics kit was a digitiser like that. The kit contained 2 motors, an electromagnet, 3 lamps, 8 switches, 2 potentiometers and various mechanical bits. You used the 2 pots in a double-jointed arm (as above) to cover an area about the size of an A4 sheet. Other projects included : A plotter (of a strange design, in that it worked in polar coordinates, ther was an arm that could be rotated by one of the motors (using a pot for feedback) and the pen carriage ran along said arm (using the other motor and pot) 2 simple robot arms, one of which was designed to play the Tower of Hanoi. This was the thing I demonstrated at the 1997 HPCC conference. The kit dod not include any form of computer interface. I think you could buy them for the IBM PC, Apple ][, etc. But not for the TRS-80s (which were the machins I had at the time). I built my own, initially for the Model 1, and then later for the HP48 calculator.... -tony From kenziem at sympatico.ca Tue Jul 15 18:39:00 2003 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: Apple clone In-Reply-To: <3F139420.5020601@internet1.net> References: <200307141923.31258.kenziem@sympatico.ca> <3F139420.5020601@internet1.net> Message-ID: <200307151934.07407.kenziem@sympatico.ca> On Tuesday 15 July 2003 01:41, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Wow, that's neat. It does look like an XT class case. Do you see any > markings on the boards themselves? Is the case truly a converted XT > case...... does it have the proper holes/slots etc for an XT? It has the smaller holes for an apple. There are no markings that I've noticed but I haven't taken a look at the bottom yet. this is from the back http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600/clone2.jpg The connector in front of the machine was not attached, but there is one open socket inside. Has anyone seen these before. What is it used for? > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Mike wrote: > > I was given an interesting machine on the weekend. I was told it was an > > Apple clone from Saudi Arabia. One of the manuals that came with it says > > micom, but it doesn't look like my other one which is in a apple II style > > case with the built in keyboard. This is in what from the front looks > > like a PC clone with the dual floppies, and an external keyboard which is > > missing. > > > > http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600/clone.jpg > > > > This time I set the camera to the lowest setting so the picture should be > > a little easier to view. From wpointon at earthlink.net Tue Jul 15 20:04:00 2003 From: wpointon at earthlink.net (william pointon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: NeXT monitor cables and stuff Message-ID: hey gang - i hope exeryones doing well -- im in need of some next stuff to get a couple systems running - 1 - a video/sound y cable to connect a color nextstation to a soundbox and a color monitor 2 - the 3-bnc adaptor that goes on the monitor end of the y cable if youre not using a next monitor 3 - a mono video cable to connect a mono nextstation to a mono monitor 4 - also i need 2 next keyboards (non adb) 5 - ??? - i would really like to find a copy of openstep 4,2 mach or nextstep 3.3 ------- thanks a bunch and please reply off list --- billp From esharpe at uswest.net Wed Jul 16 00:13:00 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: Commodore CBM/PET in Terminator 3 References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030708140243.021c8ef8@mail.bedlambells.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030711113553.00bab838@mail.bedlambells.com> Message-ID: <018b01c34b58$59c16e40$98c10343@SONYDIGITALED> Congrats on your Imsai Mark! Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Firestone" To: Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 3:36 AM Subject: Re: Commodore CBM/PET in Terminator 3 > Cool! I'll check that out. Someone in CA is supposed to ship a IMASAI > 8080 to my parents house, so I can get them to ship it to the UK. I can't > wait... wargames here I come! > > > At 13:23 10/07/2003 -0400, you wrote: > >In the Canadian Movie "Trudeau" about the former Canadian Prime minister, > >you can spot 3 PETs. One Chicklet PET, a Super PET 9000 and a CBM 8032 with > >disk drive. > >The production team rented them two years ago from my museum. > > > >PETs are awesome movie props :) > > > >Herbert > > > >on 7/8/03 9:03 AM, Mark Firestone at nedry@mail.bedlambells.com wrote: > > > > > I haven't seen it yet, but Captain Kirk owns one! Check out Star Trek > > > II... in his apartment... > > > > > > At 08:45 08/07/2003 -0400, you wrote: > > >> Anyone else spot that one near the end of the movie? It was one of the > > >> 80-column models. > > >> Not sure what any of the other "30-year old" computers were. > > >> > > >> -Frank > > > > > > [---------] > > > "Homer, we don't have to have sex." > > > "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." > > > "Deserts aren't always right Homer." > > > "But they're so delicious." > > > > > > Website: retrobbs.org > > > BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 > > > Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org > > > [---------] > > [---------] > "Homer, we don't have to have sex." > "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." > "Deserts aren't always right Homer." > "But they're so delicious." > > Website: retrobbs.org > BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 > Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org > [---------] From esharpe at uswest.net Wed Jul 16 00:15:33 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: Commodore CBM/PET in Terminator 3 References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030708140243.021c8ef8@mail.bedlambells.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030711113553.00bab838@mail.bedlambells.com> Message-ID: <018b01c34b58$59c16e40$98c10343@SONYDIGITALED> Congrats on your Imsai Mark! Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Firestone" To: Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 3:36 AM Subject: Re: Commodore CBM/PET in Terminator 3 > Cool! I'll check that out. Someone in CA is supposed to ship a IMASAI > 8080 to my parents house, so I can get them to ship it to the UK. I can't > wait... wargames here I come! > > > At 13:23 10/07/2003 -0400, you wrote: > >In the Canadian Movie "Trudeau" about the former Canadian Prime minister, > >you can spot 3 PETs. One Chicklet PET, a Super PET 9000 and a CBM 8032 with > >disk drive. > >The production team rented them two years ago from my museum. > > > >PETs are awesome movie props :) > > > >Herbert > > > >on 7/8/03 9:03 AM, Mark Firestone at nedry@mail.bedlambells.com wrote: > > > > > I haven't seen it yet, but Captain Kirk owns one! Check out Star Trek > > > II... in his apartment... > > > > > > At 08:45 08/07/2003 -0400, you wrote: > > >> Anyone else spot that one near the end of the movie? It was one of the > > >> 80-column models. > > >> Not sure what any of the other "30-year old" computers were. > > >> > > >> -Frank > > > > > > [---------] > > > "Homer, we don't have to have sex." > > > "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." > > > "Deserts aren't always right Homer." > > > "But they're so delicious." > > > > > > Website: retrobbs.org > > > BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 > > > Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org > > > [---------] > > [---------] > "Homer, we don't have to have sex." > "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." > "Deserts aren't always right Homer." > "But they're so delicious." > > Website: retrobbs.org > BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 > Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org > [---------] From drido at optushome.com.au Wed Jul 16 01:43:00 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: Apple clone In-Reply-To: <200307141923.31258.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030716163718.01299c5c@mail.optushome.com.au> At 07:23 PM 7/14/03 -0400, you wrote: >I was given an interesting machine on the weekend. I was told it was an Apple >clone from Saudi Arabia. One of the manuals that came with it says micom, >but it doesn't look like my other one which is in a apple II style case with >the built in keyboard. This is in what from the front looks like a PC clone >with the dual floppies, and an external keyboard which is missing. > >http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600/clone.jpg > >This time I set the camera to the lowest setting so the picture should be a >little easier to view. Looking at the motherboard it looks like a generic Apple ][+ clone. Clones based on the same motherboard were sold here (Australia) in XT style cases like the one you have, smaller plastic desktop cases (floppy drives side by side) and Apple ][ style cases with external drives. I've had all three variants over time. I've seens ads for a luggable version with an internal mono monitor, but I've never found one. From nedry at mail.bedlambells.com Wed Jul 16 02:50:01 2003 From: nedry at mail.bedlambells.com (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: Apple clone In-Reply-To: <200307151934.07407.kenziem@sympatico.ca> References: <3F139420.5020601@internet1.net> <200307141923.31258.kenziem@sympatico.ca> <3F139420.5020601@internet1.net> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030716084340.00b6cee8@mail.bedlambells.com> In a real Apple ][ (and //e) the open socket is a joystick connector. In the //e it is for compatibility... as the //e has a "proper" joystick port on the back... At 19:34 15/07/2003 -0400, Mike wrote: >On Tuesday 15 July 2003 01:41, Chad Fernandez wrote: >The connector in front of the machine was not attached, but there is one open >socket inside. Has anyone seen these before. What is it used for? > [---------] "Homer, we don't have to have sex." "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." "Deserts aren't always right Homer." "But they're so delicious." Website: retrobbs.org BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org [---------] From nedry at mail.bedlambells.com Wed Jul 16 04:21:00 2003 From: nedry at mail.bedlambells.com (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: Commodore CBM/PET in Terminator 3 In-Reply-To: <018b01c34b58$59c16e40$98c10343@SONYDIGITALED> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030708140243.021c8ef8@mail.bedlambells.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030711113553.00bab838@mail.bedlambells.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030716101521.022d9b38@mail.bedlambells.com> Thanks Ed! I can't wait till he sends it to my folks... and they send it on to me here in the UK. Say, you're an old time BBSer. I think you even used to call my board. I'm going to be in town from the 29th to the 6th, and we are having a party at Paul Nicolaides house on Saturday. I'll definitely stop by Corey house and say hi, but I was wondering if you fancied turning up at Paul's on Saturday night? The invitation extends to anyone else on the list who finds themselves (or lives) in Phoenix ... Take Care, Mark At 22:08 15/07/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Congrats on your Imsai Mark! > >Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC > >Please check our web site at > http://www.smecc.org >to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we >buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. > >address: > > coury house / smecc >5802 w palmaire ave >glendale az 85301 > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Mark Firestone" >To: >Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 3:36 AM >Subject: Re: Commodore CBM/PET in Terminator 3 > > > > Cool! I'll check that out. Someone in CA is supposed to ship a IMASAI > > 8080 to my parents house, so I can get them to ship it to the UK. I can't > > wait... wargames here I come! > > > > > > At 13:23 10/07/2003 -0400, you wrote: > > >In the Canadian Movie "Trudeau" about the former Canadian Prime minister, > > >you can spot 3 PETs. One Chicklet PET, a Super PET 9000 and a CBM 8032 >with > > >disk drive. > > >The production team rented them two years ago from my museum. > > > > > >PETs are awesome movie props :) > > > > > >Herbert > > > > > >on 7/8/03 9:03 AM, Mark Firestone at nedry@mail.bedlambells.com wrote: > > > > > > > I haven't seen it yet, but Captain Kirk owns one! Check out Star Trek > > > > II... in his apartment... > > > > > > > > At 08:45 08/07/2003 -0400, you wrote: > > > >> Anyone else spot that one near the end of the movie? It was one of >the > > > >> 80-column models. > > > >> Not sure what any of the other "30-year old" computers were. > > > >> > > > >> -Frank > > > > > > > > [---------] > > > > "Homer, we don't have to have sex." > > > > "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." > > > > "Deserts aren't always right Homer." > > > > "But they're so delicious." > > > > > > > > Website: retrobbs.org > > > > BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 > > > > Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org > > > > [---------] > > > > [---------] > > "Homer, we don't have to have sex." > > "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." > > "Deserts aren't always right Homer." > > "But they're so delicious." > > > > Website: retrobbs.org > > BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 > > Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org > > [---------] [---------] "Homer, we don't have to have sex." "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." "Deserts aren't always right Homer." "But they're so delicious." Website: retrobbs.org BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org [---------] From asholz at topinform.com Wed Jul 16 10:01:01 2003 From: asholz at topinform.com (Andreas Holz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: Varian Data Machines Message-ID: <3F1567D6.7090905@topinform.com> Hello all, I got a Varian(Univac) Data Machines 620L100 in very good conditions including a fixed-head disk, a teletype and a Tektronix storage display. This machines is dated to 1974. I'm in the stage to reassemble to machine and to check the boards. I hope I'll be able to power on within the next weeks. Is there anyone on this list who has experiences with this type of machines? Andreas From esharpe at uswest.net Wed Jul 16 11:51:00 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: Commodore CBM/PET in Terminator 3 References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030708140243.021c8ef8@mail.bedlambells.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030711113553.00bab838@mail.bedlambells.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030716101521.022d9b38@mail.bedlambells.com> Message-ID: <009601c34bc2$4a5aa920$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> Hi Mark! It would be tricky to carry the Imsai on the plane as carry on luggage! I remember the good ol' pre 911 days when I would walk on the plane with whimhurst machines, pieces of old radar sets... etc.... ( whimhurst machine makes static electricity.... has counter revolving glass plates lyden jars stc....) You are welcome to stop by, the July - aug timeframe is our main construction time here at the museum but if there are safe paths happy to show you though! Here in Arizona of course we have opposite tourist seasons from he rest of the world it seems.... winter good summer echchch ( 116 degrees the other day) so summer time is work on the building and displays time. to get ready for September October! Thank you for the invitation Mark, may not make the event on Sat. night as I am usually by the end of the day pretty grimy, dehydrated and tired! but... please do stop by and visit. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Firestone" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 2:17 AM Subject: Re: Commodore CBM/PET in Terminator 3 > Thanks Ed! I can't wait till he sends it to my folks... and they send it > on to me here in the UK. > > Say, you're an old time BBSer. I think you even used to call my > board. I'm going to be in town from the 29th to the 6th, and we are having > a party at Paul Nicolaides house on Saturday. > > I'll definitely stop by Corey house and say hi, but I was wondering if you > fancied turning up at Paul's on Saturday night? The invitation extends to > anyone else on the list who finds themselves (or lives) in Phoenix ... > > Take Care, > > Mark > > At 22:08 15/07/2003 -0700, you wrote: > >Congrats on your Imsai Mark! > > > >Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC > > > >Please check our web site at > > http://www.smecc.org > >to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we > >buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. > > > >address: > > > > coury house / smecc > >5802 w palmaire ave > >glendale az 85301 > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Mark Firestone" > >To: > >Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 3:36 AM > >Subject: Re: Commodore CBM/PET in Terminator 3 > > > > > > > Cool! I'll check that out. Someone in CA is supposed to ship a IMASAI > > > 8080 to my parents house, so I can get them to ship it to the UK. I can't > > > wait... wargames here I come! > > > > > > > > > At 13:23 10/07/2003 -0400, you wrote: > > > >In the Canadian Movie "Trudeau" about the former Canadian Prime minister, > > > >you can spot 3 PETs. One Chicklet PET, a Super PET 9000 and a CBM 8032 > >with > > > >disk drive. > > > >The production team rented them two years ago from my museum. > > > > > > > >PETs are awesome movie props :) > > > > > > > >Herbert > > > > > > > >on 7/8/03 9:03 AM, Mark Firestone at nedry@mail.bedlambells.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > I haven't seen it yet, but Captain Kirk owns one! Check out Star Trek > > > > > II... in his apartment... > > > > > > > > > > At 08:45 08/07/2003 -0400, you wrote: > > > > >> Anyone else spot that one near the end of the movie? It was one of > >the > > > > >> 80-column models. > > > > >> Not sure what any of the other "30-year old" computers were. > > > > >> > > > > >> -Frank > > > > > > > > > > [---------] > > > > > "Homer, we don't have to have sex." > > > > > "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." > > > > > "Deserts aren't always right Homer." > > > > > "But they're so delicious." > > > > > > > > > > Website: retrobbs.org > > > > > BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 > > > > > Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org > > > > > [---------] > > > > > > [---------] > > > "Homer, we don't have to have sex." > > > "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." > > > "Deserts aren't always right Homer." > > > "But they're so delicious." > > > > > > Website: retrobbs.org > > > BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 > > > Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org > > > [---------] > > [---------] > "Homer, we don't have to have sex." > "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." > "Deserts aren't always right Homer." > "But they're so delicious." > > Website: retrobbs.org > BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 > Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org > [---------] From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Jul 16 13:01:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: Was: Commodore CBM/PET Now: Reply Trim Rant In-Reply-To: <009601c34bc2$4a5aa920$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030708140243.021c8ef8@mail.bedlambells.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030711113553.00bab838@mail.bedlambells.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030716101521.022d9b38@mail.bedlambells.com> <009601c34bc2$4a5aa920$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: Hey Ed - are you going to be travelling up to the Fort Tuthill Annual Ham Swapmeet in Flagstaff this year? (July 25th, 26, 27th) If so, I and Marvin Johnston will be there. Last year we got some good classiccmp type items - also brought a load to sell. This invite also goes out to other interested classiccmpers. I'll also publish an announcement shortly. On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, Ed Sharpe wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Firestone" > > At 22:08 15/07/2003 -0700, you wrote: > > >Congrats on your Imsai Mark! > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Mark Firestone" > > > > > > [---------] > > > > > > > > [---------] > Hey Guyz - not to squelch List traffic, nor appear to be a NetCop - but d'ya think it might be possible to try and TRIM YER DAMN REPLY CASCADES???? I mean, 152 lines of triple-posted reply threads, including three copies of somebody's asinine sig... and I read all this, already, already, already. Please be aware that some of us (me included) read the list via an ASCII terminal emulator under a Unix shell account - and that more than one of our Listmembers in Countries Other Than the US (remember them?) pay for thier Internet access *By The Byte*... so this really pisses them off. Cheerz John From esharpe at uswest.net Wed Jul 16 13:41:01 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: Commodore CBM/PET Now: Reply Trim Rant References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030708140243.021c8ef8@mail.bedlambells.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030711113553.00bab838@mail.bedlambells.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030716101521.022d9b38@mail.bedlambells.com> <009601c34bc2$4a5aa920$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: <014401c34bd1$ba7feda0$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> Hi! Have not gone in years... may not make it this year although the thrill of hunting for more stuff and meeting some of you would be interesting! ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lawson" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 10:57 AM Subject: Was: Commodore CBM/PET Now: Reply Trim Rant > Hey Ed - are you going to be travelling up to the Fort Tuthill Annual Ham > Swapmeet in Flagstaff this year? (July 25th, 26, 27th) If so, I and > Marvin Johnston will be there. Last year we got some good classiccmp type > items - also brought a load to sell. > > This invite also goes out to other interested classiccmpers. I'll also > publish an announcement shortly. > > > > > > On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, Ed Sharpe wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mark Firestone" > > > At 22:08 15/07/2003 -0700, you wrote: > > > >Congrats on your Imsai Mark! > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: "Mark Firestone" > > > > > > > [---------] > > > > > > > > > > > [---------] > > > > > > Hey Guyz - not to squelch List traffic, nor appear to be a NetCop - but > d'ya think it might be possible to try and > > TRIM YER DAMN REPLY CASCADES???? > > I mean, 152 lines of triple-posted reply threads, including three copies > of somebody's asinine sig... and I read all this, already, already, > already. > > Please be aware that some of us (me included) read the list via an ASCII > terminal emulator under a Unix shell account - and that more than one of > our Listmembers in Countries Other Than the US (remember them?) pay for > thier Internet access *By The Byte*... so this really pisses them off. > > > > > > Cheerz > > John From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Jul 16 13:51:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: S'west US Ham Swapmeet Message-ID: For any interested Classiccmpers in the Southwest - the annual Ft. Thuthill ham swap is coming up at the end of this month - July 25th, 26th, 2th in Flagstaff, AZ at the Fort Tuthill Rec Area. This is large, well-attended meet with an outdoor area and also indoor vendor sales. Camping and RV spaces are available on-site. Sunday (27th) is the Auction, where all the stuff you didn't want to buy the first three times is auctioned off to the highest bidder - a real, show-of-hands type auction. E-mail me off list for more info - I'll be there with Marvin Johnston. Cheerz John From aek at spies.com Wed Jul 16 14:27:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: Varian Data Machines Message-ID: <200307161926.h6GJQRwY014660@spies.com> I got a Varian(Univac) Data Machines 620L100 in very good conditions including a fixed-head disk, a teletype and a Tektronix storage display. This machines is dated to 1974. -- Is it an ADAPTS system (is there an A/D panel just below the CPU) ? I have one. It is very likely that there is a lab oriented BASIC (possibly still in core!) If there is any way to save the contents of memory before you fiddle with trying programs, it would be a GOOD THING. I haven't touched my machine because I don't want to destroy what may be the only copy of that program. I would also suggest not spinning up the disc right away. I assume you aren't getting any documentation or external software with it? From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Jul 16 16:21:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: H89 hard sectored disk copy program Message-ID: <200307162116.OAA27159@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Patrick Rigney and I have been working on a program to transfer disk images to and from a H89/90 to a PC through the serial port. It looks like we have a working setup. Here are some of the things one might use this program for: 1. Boot Strapping a system without any boot disk ( you do need a 10 sectored diskette ). 2. Archive disk data onto newer media. 3. Transfer disk images over the Internet. I'm looking for a few more guinea pigs to try it out on. Right now, it is only working in a pure DOS boot and not in a DOS window under windoze. If anyone know what the problem is with windoze and serial port access, I'd like to better understand it? The stuff I have includes: BOOTSTRP.OCL Octal code to cold bootstrap H89TRANS.COM DOS program to run transfers H89LDR.BIN Main loader program to run on H89 If you have an extra blank disk, you only need to enter the BOOTSTRP, from the H89 monitor, once. You can then make a bootable disk that brings up the transfer program. The program includes built in formatting so you don't need to worry about that. The system needs one of the H89 serial cards. Right now, that is the only access I've implemented. I currently use the H89's LP: port since that doesn't require a null modem connection and simple 1-to-1 wiring works from a serial port on the PC. The port on the PC side is selectable. Disk image files can be transfered to and from the H89. These are simple non-compressed disk images. This way one can often write simple programs to read text files and such from the images files. I may add a HDOS file read/write at a later date. There are some 9600TPI disk out there ( and I have a couple ) but I've not dealt with these yet. If you have a system that uses these, you'll need to wait. I am also especially interested in image files you may have. This is one of my main motives for writing this. There was a bunch of interesting things out there that would run under HDOS. I also have my Forth that runs standalone for those that are interested. I include a Forth meta compiler to modify or add anything you want. You can also make turnkey systems as well. Please reply if you are interested. Dwight From kenziem at sympatico.ca Wed Jul 16 18:04:00 2003 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: Varian Data Machines In-Reply-To: <3F1567D6.7090905@topinform.com> References: <3F1567D6.7090905@topinform.com> Message-ID: <200307161859.01563.kenziem@sympatico.ca> On Wednesday 16 July 2003 10:57, Andreas Holz wrote: > Hello all, > > I got a Varian(Univac) Data Machines 620L100 in very good conditions > including a fixed-head disk, a teletype and a Tektronix storage display. > This machines is dated to 1974. > > I'm in the stage to reassemble to machine and to check the boards. I > hope I'll be able to power on within the next weeks. > > Is there anyone on this list who has experiences with this type of > machines? Have I got a deal for you. I happen to have a copy of the varian data 620/i computer manual sitting on my desk at the moment. The only problem is that the post office is threatening to strike at the of the week. From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Jul 16 18:22:00 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: TMS2564 ? Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030716181801.03dd0bc8@mail.ubanproductions.com> Hello, I am trying to update the firmware in an old BBN BitGraph terminal and it uses four TMS2564 EPROMs, which from what I have been able to determine (see here: http://www.spies.com/~arcade/schematics/ROMref.txt ) are not compatible with a standard 2764. I suppose that I could make four adapters, but if I can find the correct parts, that would be better. Does anyone have four TMS2564-45 (or better) that they would be willing to part with? --tnx --tom From tim.challenor at tcns.co.uk Wed Jul 16 18:49:00 2003 From: tim.challenor at tcns.co.uk (Tim Challenor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: PDP 8 for over $3000 In-Reply-To: <001001c34779$2bffdfb0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <97528512-B7E7-11D7-8952-000393DA5226@tcns.co.uk> Hi all - I'd just like to say to anyone that cares about this, that although the PDP8S will be in our collection, it will also at some point in the not too distant future have its docs and such s/w as we have at the time archived and accessible on the net. It is also possible (though we have not yet decided) that it gets shipped to the UK, where it could feature in a publicly accessible technology museum in Hampshire - though as I say, this is a way down the road. As an engineer old enough to remember hand-assembling code in octal that had to be entered via the console switches. I loath the opacity that is increasingly (and 'deliberately') designed in to contemporary machines in the name of 'user friendliness'. I therefore want to do whatever I can, when I can to help those wishing to educate themselves further on the subject of machine architecture and history, with a view to promoting a clearer view of the fundamentals that I would wish to contribute to the growth of a more ethical, sustainable and efficient industry in the future. My brother in law (Nick Steel) and I have committed ourselves to this hobby, being ideally placed in the US and the UK, to periodically exchange kit that we find in Europe and the US. We are always interested in purchasing (or assisting in the purchase) of rare (that's 'rare' as opposed to 'ebay-rare'!) kit. Specifically, if discrete transistors, tubes and or mechanical logic are employed in the design, then we are potential purchasers/restorers of the item. Best regards to all tim.challenor@tcns.co.uk From list at saracom.com Wed Jul 16 20:28:00 2003 From: list at saracom.com (Maxwell K. Froedge) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: P9000/300 Computers, CS80 Disks and Windows Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.1.20030716212547.01604d20@mail.saracom.com> Hello, I am new to the list. My classic computer collection is mainly DEC but I must use "classic" HPs at work. Hence my current problem. We have multiple HP9000/300 computers connected via SRM to a HP9826 computer running SRM ver 3.12. We also have several standalone Viper board based PCs. My current problem is that one of the hard drives attached to the HP9826 has died. It was a HP7937 HP-IB drive. I believe it was a CS80 device. I have backups made with a HP9144 tape drive. We could buy a refurbished drive. We were quoted $1300 for a HP7937. I would like to avoid that. Since I only need a few files from the backup and my application could run from the Viper board, if I could get the files into a MS-DOS format, my problem would be solved. I looked through the archives and ran across a thread "HP storage formats on ss80 protocol disks". It seems work has begun on a Windows program to read at least LIF volumes attached to a NI-GPIB board. I have acess to such. The files are RMB ver 5.13 files. The drive that died was not the boot device. Couple of questions: 1) What format is the SRM backups in? LIF? HFS? Other? 2) Peter Brown, would you share your software? I am also open to other suggestions. If you have a HP7937 drive or similar, we can talk. Either purchase or trade. We have a spare HP9826 computer with a dead display along with extra HP9000/300 computers. Thanks Max From auringer at tds.net Wed Jul 16 21:20:00 2003 From: auringer at tds.net (Jon Auringer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: Marchant Calculating Machine Message-ID: <3F1607EC.6060507@tds.net> Hello, I thought someone here might find this interesting. https://mds.bussvc.wisc.edu/swap/product.asp?mscssID=&auction_id=908 Later, Jon From rickb at bensene.com Thu Jul 17 01:14:01 2003 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: Old 3M Computer In-Reply-To: <3F1607EC.6060507@tds.net> Message-ID: <000701c34c2a$17bac780$030aa8c0@bensene.com> Hello, all, Back in high school (1973-1977), the school I attended had an old computer that was donated to the school. The machine was quite interesting. It was a transistorized machine, using a magnetic drum for main memory. It had a bit serial architecture, with a 24-bit word. The drum held 8K 24-bit words. Instructions had 5 bits of opcode. Each instruction contained the address of an operand (track and sector), and the address of the next instruction (track and sector). The machine had a 'hardwired' read-in mode that accepted addresses and data as octal numbers from the console ASR-33 teletype. The input format was address, followed by a space, followed by data for that address, followed by a carriage return. All other characters were ignored. The machine could accept data from the paper tape in read-in mode at about 8 characters per second (slightly slower than the full rate the TTY was capable of). The instruction set was fairly basic with two accumulators (A and B), 2's compliment arithmetic, addition & subtraction, various logical ops (OR, AND, XOR, as I recall), load and store, and various I/O functions. No index registers, no indirect addressing. These features were implemented by instruction modification. The instruction set included suggestions for "optimal programming", which suggested, for example, plaing the operand at the current address plus 2, and the next instruction at current address plus 4, to allow for drum rotation during instruction decode and operation processing. Master timing for the machine was generated by a fixed timing track on the drum. The front panel was very simple...there were five lighted (by neon bulbs) pushbuttons labelled LOAD CLEAR START STOP and STEP. The LOAD button placed the machine into read-in mode. The CLEAR button cleared out the major registers. The START button started execution at the current location, and STOP halted the machine after the current instruction executed. STEP executed a single instruction. I can't recall if the machine had any interrupt system. There were five neon indicators that would display the op code of the current instruction. The machine was made by 3M. The system consisted of two CPUs, a "Primary" and "Secondary" , which were identical. These two CPU's fit into two drawer units in a small rack about 3 feet tall, a standard 19" relay rack. Each CPU was about 10RU. The circuit boards plugged in vertically arranged in a "U" shape, around the drum which was in the center of the chassis. The drum was a fixed head per track drum, with electronic track switching. Another 6 foot tall relay rack contained I/O equipment, which included an interface for an ASR-33 teletype, as well as a large bank of counters which were part of a data acquisition system. There was also a register that connected the two CPUs together to allow the CPUs to communicate with each other. Also included was a real-time clock included in a control panel that used projection-type incandescent indicators to display the time, and was interfaced through a 24-bit register that could read the time. The clock was rackmounted in a standard relay rack (19"). The clock was made by another manufacturer, apparently OEM'd by 3M. It was about 8RU, and used transistorized 10-stage ring counters. Also interfaced (but we never were able to make it work) as a large-carriage IBM output writer (not Selectric, used indiviual type hammers like a regular electric typewriter). The story about the machine was that is was used as a data acquisition system for monitoring gas line flow/pressure by Northwest Natural Gas in Portland, Oregon. When the system was decommissioned sometime in the early'70's, it was donated to the high school. When I started high school in '73, the drum in the secondary CPU had suffered a head crash (bearing failure), which made the secondary CPU useless. The primary CPU ran great. I spent a lot of time tinkering around with the machine, learning a lot about machine language programming. I even wrote a simple BASIC interpreter for the machine..a fun exercise, but pretty pointless as the machine was so slow that it would take up to 15 seconds to simply syntax a newly inputted statement and store it in the user workspace. I went back to the high school in the early 80's, and the machine was gone. The story was that the primary drum had crashed, and since the machine was useless, it was given away to a scrap dealer. Does this machine ring any bells with anyone? Rick Bensene From vp at mcs.drexel.edu Thu Jul 17 03:25:01 2003 From: vp at mcs.drexel.edu (Vassilis Prevelakis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: HP Integral Message-ID: <200307170821.h6H8L7hY012929@king.mcs.drexel.edu> In cctalk digest, Vol 1 #684 ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > I asusem that ROM daugtherboards are impossible to obtain, but has anyone > dumped the ROMS from one? > > Any ideas if it's ever possible to find the GPIO and serial interface > cards for these machines? > > Any software out there on the net for it? I have the normal HP disk set > (System disk, HP-UX commands (2 disks), Utilities, Diagnostics, Tutor, > and NP Technical BASIC). > > Anything else I should know about it? Check Pete Johnson's website dedicated to the IPC (http://www.coho.org/~pete/IPC/integral.html) He has practically *all* the software for this machine. The only bad ting I can say for the site is that the HPUX utilities work only on big-endian machines. I have written a converter tool (HPUX filesystem image to tar [1]) that is hopefully platform independent, and I will send it to him after I have tried it a bit to make sure that it is mostly bug free. [1] so you use it like hpux2tar image-file | tar tvf - ----- I think that the daughterboards have standard parts so it should be possible to create replacements. I have the BASIC sub-daughterboard so I can send you a dump of the BASIC ROMs if I can find where they are mapped into the 68K address space. I have used the IPC to access HP-IL peripherals via the HP-IB port (using the 82169A HP-IL/HP-IB Interface), and I think it would be trivial to write a short program to talk with computers over the HP-IL via the HP-IL serial interface. There is also a built-in HP-IL interface (to talk to the built-in ThinkJet), but it is directly connected to the ThinkJet without the transformers and (anyway) I have not found a way to address the ThinkJet using IL addressing (rather than the /dev/internal interface). **vp From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Jul 17 08:26:00 2003 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: Apple ///+ specs? value? Message-ID: I've got a lead on one with plenty of accessories but the guy needs someone to assess a realistic value to the machine, for IRS reasons or something like that. What could I tell him? He saw the functioning /// with profile I own, so it would be neat to have a working plus model alongside it. From allain at panix.com Thu Jul 17 09:15:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: Old 3M Computer References: <000701c34c2a$17bac780$030aa8c0@bensene.com> Message-ID: <007001c34c6d$2ad5b260$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Some random thoughts. The machine may have been built as much as 10 years before your school obtained it, judging from the design. This machine sounds like a transistorized version of the Monrobot, which we of the list have recently become priviledged to know more about. This machine may have been referred to as a Calculator and not a Computer. There is mention of a "General Precision LGP-21" out there on the web that approximates the design of your machine, and it is circa 1963. Good luck, I hope you find it. John A. From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Jul 17 10:34:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... Message-ID: <20030717153335.GB88881@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Hopefully this isn't too off-topic, but a thought just occured to me about computers that some may, or may not, want to collect in the future, which aren't classics yet. It seems that many of the newer computers have been designed with uncollectability, as well as a high degree of user-annoyance, in mind. Somehow, either some marketing idiots, or clueless enginers, got the idea to design computer equipment that's unstackable due to its rounded-off shape... the iMacs and some Compaq PeeCees (e.g. Presario 4814) come to mind. Is anyone going to be seriously interested in collecting computer equipment that can't be stacked, and does anyone actually find equipment that can't be stacked, or have anything stacked on top of it (not even a monitor or books, etc), to be other than an annoyance? -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Jul 17 10:47:00 2003 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... Message-ID: <1d5.df2c433.2c481e02@aol.com> In a message dated 7/17/2003 11:33:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rdd@rddavis.org writes: << Hopefully this isn't too off-topic, but a thought just occured to me about computers that some may, or may not, want to collect in the future, which aren't classics yet. >> One model that I used to support and I'd like to find would be the IBM Aptiva stealth model they made back in 1998/1999. I thought it was a neat idea to put the drives in a seperate enclosure below the monitor. From owen at bardstown.com Thu Jul 17 10:50:00 2003 From: owen at bardstown.com (owen@bardstown.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: IBM POWERstation 220 serial terminal Message-ID: <200307140050.h6E0ovR06416@mail.bardstown.com> Greetings, I have recieved an old IBM Model 7011-220. There is very little documentation, and IBM has no clue... I have no video adapter or monitor, can someone tell me the type (guessing Sun 13W3...) Also, can someone provide instructions on how to use this with the Linux term. program Minicom? And... *grimaces* anyone know HTH to get the cover off ;) TIA, Owen Marshall From larry.washburn at DTRA.MIL Thu Jul 17 10:52:49 2003 From: larry.washburn at DTRA.MIL (Washburn, Larry CIV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: MT-80Z Micro Professor Manuals Message-ID: <643810430281D61185550002A5F06E7E0477999B@mail901.dtra.mil> Glen Noticed your posting about the missing manuals for the E&L z80 trainer. I am also in same boat, just won mine on ebay,,, minus manuals etc Did you ever locate any manuals, experimenter books for the unit? Larry From root at parse.com Thu Jul 17 10:55:47 2003 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: M220B (PDP-8/I) schematics available In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Jul 10, 2003 08:27:31 PM Message-ID: <200307141230.IAA16552@parse.com> Tony Duell sez... > > > > Is the 7474 a 'dog'? I've know a few TTL parts that were pretty bad, > > > mainly counters though. But a latch? > > > > This reminds me of a similar problem in the JC80 systems, where 74170 > > chips would fail more often than anything else. I'd sure like to know what > > the cause of that was... > > I can remember replacing many 7474s in the RK11-C when I was getting that > going. Oh, and a 7482 adder, which was impossible to find [1]... > > More recently, I've had a lot of 74Hxxx parts (and yet more 7474s) fail in > HP98x0 calculators. I guess after 30 years I can't really moan... > > [1] I do mean _iompossible_. I ended up using part of a 7483 that I stuck > to the flip-chip PCB dead-bug style and wired to the holes where the 7482 > should have been. Runs fine... Bzzt. Wrong. (First, you probably mean "_impossible_" :-)). I just bought 5 of them for US$1.25 (or so) each from Gateway Electronics. Along with spare 7453, 7460, 7440, etc. I think it's something like "gatewayelex.com". Cheers, -RK -- Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! From nerdware at ctgonline.org Thu Jul 17 10:58:37 2003 From: nerdware at ctgonline.org (nerdware@ctgonline.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: OT-- need plans for a wireless switch Message-ID: <3F12BF19.2934.15D1646@localhost> I'm posting this here because, on the average, you guys are pretty smart. I'm trying to put a push-to-talk switch on the steering wheel of my car so I can key the 2-meter ham radio while keeping both hands on the wheel. I've got a little boom mic and have built an interface box, but how to mount the switch has me stumped. I picked up one of the velcro aircraft ptt buttons, which mounts nicely, but even with the relatively short turning radius of my Subaru it's still a good number of turns lock-to-lock and the coiled cord has a tendency to get snagged in the space between the wheel and steering column. My next thought is to use the aircraft button, but with a tiny transmitter/battery mounted on the wheel, with a receiver mounted under the steering column with a keying relay. Hit the button, the relay turns on, let up, the relay releases. I've been Googling for a while, but most tiny transmitters are either for "spy" audio apps, or are multi-button jobs for garage doors and things like that. All I need is a simple on/off fm transmitter that controls a simple relay on the receiver end, preferably powered by a couple of AA cells or similar, and the transmitter needs to be hackable so I can connect the wheel-mounted ptt switch. Any suggestions? I know this isn't directly related to Classiccmp, but it IS related to ham radio and electronics, and ham radio and electronics are related to hamfests, and hamfests attract computer collectors, so there. I just made the connection. Thanks. Paul Braun Cygnus Productions nerdware@ctgonline.org From ernestls at comcast.net Thu Jul 17 11:01:28 2003 From: ernestls at comcast.net (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: Apple clone In-Reply-To: <200307141923.31258.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Mike > I was given an interesting machine on the weekend. I was told it > was an Apple > clone from Saudi Arabia. One of the manuals that came with it > says micom, > but it doesn't look like my other one which is in a apple II > style case with > the built in keyboard. This is in what from the front looks > like a PC clone > with the dual floppies, and an external keyboard which is missing. > > http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600/clone.jpg > > This time I set the camera to the lowest setting so the picture > should be a > little easier to view. Yup. This style of clone case was popular in Germany. I have two in cases like this one but the cases were smashed all to hell when they were mailed to me from Germany. The top flips up to show the internals but it's hard to replace parts because they soldered wires from the cards (video for example) to the case. Both of my AT Case clones were very generic but I like the external keyboards. The power supply plugs stick out of the hole that would normally have the big PC/AT on-off switch on the side. The layout works well enough, and it's nice and roomy inside but it annoyed me that so much was soldered together when simple connectors would have worked better. Is yours working? From luv2craftca at jaydemail.com Thu Jul 17 11:04:16 2003 From: luv2craftca at jaydemail.com (Jo Cooley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: 8-inch disk drives Message-ID: <20030715141324.7071.qmail@jaydemail.com> Hi, I'm new to the list and am currently trying to find a solution to transfering data/software from 8-inch disks to a pc.  We have a working minc-II with two floppy drives.  The  console is gone but I currently have an old 386 hooked up to act as a terminal.  What would be the best way to transfer the info from the old disks to the 'newer' pc?  One suggestion was to get an old 8-inch floppy drive and hook it directly to the pc, but it seems to me that would involve possible building a hardware interface and writing driver software. Any suggestions or pointers to web pages would be very welcome, I've already spent a few hours searching the web without finding a solution. Thanks! Jo -- _______________________________________________ Another FREE service from Jayde Online http://www.jayde.com Private, Web-based email accounts at http://www.jaydemail.com Powered by Outblaze From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Jul 17 11:08:01 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... References: <20030717153335.GB88881@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <005801c34c7b$7a33a840$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Being stackable has nothing to do with being collectible. The only major problem with collecting newer computers 10+ years from now is that they are made so crappy that finding one in usable condition will be a problem. The Imac tends to have power supply and overheating problems. Most of the newer processors run very hot and will tend to die quicker then older processors. Apple found that if they made colorfull rounded computers people would buy them because they were tired of beige boxes, then the other computer makers followed. Its just like ford and the rounded taurus. I like whats under the hood, not what it looks like. If its nice looking and has interesting hardware thats a plus. ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 11:33 AM Subject: Future uncollectable computers... > Hopefully this isn't too off-topic, but a thought just occured to me > about computers that some may, or may not, want to collect in the > future, which aren't classics yet. It seems that many of the newer > computers have been designed with uncollectability, as well as a high > degree of user-annoyance, in mind. Somehow, either some marketing > idiots, or clueless enginers, got the idea to design computer > equipment that's unstackable due to its rounded-off shape... the iMacs > and some Compaq PeeCees (e.g. Presario 4814) come to mind. Is anyone > going to be seriously interested in collecting computer equipment that > can't be stacked, and does anyone actually find equipment that can't > be stacked, or have anything stacked on top of it (not even a monitor > or books, etc), to be other than an annoyance? > > -- > Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From root at parse.com Thu Jul 17 11:20:54 2003 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: Recently scanned PDP-8/I schematics available Message-ID: <200307151837.OAA02391@parse.com> Recent scans of my collection of 17"x22" PDP-8/I schematics are now available; many are different (newer) revision than others available on the web. http://www.parse.com/~pdp8/pdp8i/drawings.html There's a tarball so you can download the whole thing (11 Megs). Spozedly, these are 400 DPI scans, so they should be pretty reasonable quality. Cheers, -RK -- Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Jul 17 11:24:01 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: TMS2564 ? References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030716181801.03dd0bc8@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3F16CBE1.3020200@tiac.net> Hey Tom, How is the BitGraph project? And progress with the 11/35? Tom Uban wrote: > Hello, > > I am trying to update the firmware in an old BBN BitGraph terminal and > it uses four TMS2564 EPROMs, which from what I have been able to > determine > (see here: http://www.spies.com/~arcade/schematics/ROMref.txt ) are not > compatible with a standard 2764. I suppose that I could make four > adapters, > but if I can find the correct parts, that would be better. > > Does anyone have four TMS2564-45 (or better) that they would be willing > to part with? > > --tnx > --tom From ktoker at marmara.edu.tr Thu Jul 17 11:26:50 2003 From: ktoker at marmara.edu.tr (Kenan TOKER) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: plotter Message-ID: <20030715210831.41500.qmail@marmara.edu.tr> The broken gear is occured because of using thickker paper. This is true for this mechanism made by ALPS. You can fix it by using a cement which has two elements to combine and get rigit. Then the gear is permanently stabilize. Kenan From keith at saracom.com Thu Jul 17 11:29:40 2003 From: keith at saracom.com (keith@saracom.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: HP9000/300 Computers, CS80 Disks and Windows Message-ID: <20030716110936.29621.h010.c000.wm@mail.saracom.com.criticalpath.net> Hello, I am new to the list. My classic computer collection is mainly DEC but I must use "classic" HPs at work. Hence my current problem. We have multiple HP9000/300 computers connected via SRM to a HP9826 computer running SRM ver 3.12. We also have several standalone Viper board based PCs. My current problem is that one of the hard drives attached to the HP9826 has died. It was a HP7937 HP-IB drive. I believe it was a CS80 device. I have backups made with a HP9144 tape drive. We could buy a refurbished drive. We were quoted $1300 for a HP7937. I would like to avoid that. Since I only need a few files from the backup and my application could run from the Viper board, if I could get the files into a MS-DOS format, my problem would be solved. I looked through the archives and ran across a thread "HP storage formats on ss80 protocol disks". It seems work has begun on a Windows program to read at least LIF volumes attached to a NI-GPIB board. I have acess to such. The files are RMB ver 5.13 files. The drive that died was not the boot device. Couple of questions: 1) What format is the SRM backups in? LIF? HFS? Other? 2) Peter Brown, would you share your software? I am also open to other suggestions. If you have a HP7937 drive or similar, we can talk. Either purchase or trade. We have a spare HP9826 computer with a dead display along with extra HP9000/300 computers. Thanks Max From BLapsley at aol.com Thu Jul 17 11:32:30 2003 From: BLapsley at aol.com (BLapsley@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:51 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <185.1dfd0ebb.2c46f8cb@aol.com> hi have you the drivers for ppc 640s From hdlee at shaw.ca Thu Jul 17 11:35:42 2003 From: hdlee at shaw.ca (d_lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: Northgate ZX Portable HELP Message-ID: <001f01c34bf1$93e3fea0$0a01a8c0@olympus> Hello, I am rebuilding a Northgate ZX-Portable (almost done) but need some information on the AC charger. The AC Adapter output connector (the part that plugs into the computer) was hacked off when I acquired the computer. I've bought a replacement connector, but still need information on the AC Adapter pin-outs. Does anyone have a similar machine, and could tell me the pin-outs for the battery charger, or offer some advice on where to find this information. The part number for the Northgate AC Adapter is 850-0215. I am new to this list, and glad to have found it. Classics are great! Thanks in advance, Dan Lee From dmb7443 at dctexas.net Thu Jul 17 11:38:58 2003 From: dmb7443 at dctexas.net (DMB7443) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: APTIVA RISER CARD Message-ID: <3F16B39F.000003.04828@server> HI I KNOW YOUR POSTING IS OLD BUT I THOUGHT I WOULD ASK IF YOU STILL HAVE THE APTIVA RISER CARD IBM # 11H8453 THANKS FOR YOUR TIME MIKE B TYLER TX From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Thu Jul 17 11:42:01 2003 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: <20030717153335.GB88881@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20030717163819.51320.qmail@web12402.mail.yahoo.com> I don't see the connection, many 70's computers aren't stackable, including all the single board "no case" computers. In addition, you can make any unstackable computer stackable by putting it in a box. Personally, none of my computers are stack, so its not a problem for me, my computers are all on their own shelfs (Home Depot adjustable shelves, from 5 to 12 shelves from floor to ceiling to accommodate various sized computers). Manuals and books are stack in boxes though. --- "R. D. Davis" wrote: > Hopefully this isn't too off-topic, but a thought > just occured to me > about computers that some may, or may not, want to > collect in the > future, which aren't classics yet. It seems that > many of the newer > computers have been designed with uncollectability, > as well as a high > degree of user-annoyance, in mind. Somehow, either > some marketing > idiots, or clueless enginers, got the idea to design > computer > equipment that's unstackable due to its rounded-off > shape... the iMacs > and some Compaq PeeCees (e.g. Presario 4814) come to > mind. Is anyone > going to be seriously interested in collecting > computer equipment that > can't be stacked, and does anyone actually find > equipment that can't > be stacked, or have anything stacked on top of it > (not even a monitor > or books, etc), to be other than an annoyance? > > -- > Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference > between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief > that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, > using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to > justify much human cruelty. From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jul 17 11:59:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: 8-inch disk drives In-Reply-To: <20030715141324.7071.qmail@jaydemail.com> References: <20030715141324.7071.qmail@jaydemail.com> Message-ID: <20030717093320.K81976@newshell.lmi.net> On Tue, 15 Jul 2003, Jo Cooley wrote: > Hi, > I'm new to the list and am currently trying to find a solution to > transfering data/software from 8-inch disks to a pc.  > We have a working minc-II with two floppy drives.  The  console is gone > but I currently have an old 386 hooked up to act as a terminal.  > What would be the best way to transfer the info from the old disks to the > 'newer' pc?  You've already GOT it. Tell the minc to display the file on the console. Tell the 386 to save it to disk. For non-text files, write a utility ON THE MINC to take each byte, and display the numerical value of the byte. Write the reverse for the PC. > One suggestion was to get an old 8-inch floppy drive and hook it directly > to the pc, but it seems to me that would involve possible building a > hardware interface and writing driver software. DONE. the 1.2M controller in the PC will operate MOST (those wishing to list obscure exceptions,...) 8" "industry standard" drives, probably including ones borrowed from the minc. But,... ARE YOU WILLING TO WRITE a complete file system handler to read and parse the directory structure an fetch the individual sectors of the files? > Any suggestions or pointers to web pages would be very welcome, I've > already spent a few hours searching the web without finding a solution. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From marvin at rain.org Thu Jul 17 12:02:02 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: OT-- need plans for a wireless switch References: <3F12BF19.2934.15D1646@localhost> Message-ID: <3F16D1B1.D7336678@rain.org> nerdware@ctgonline.org wrote: > > I've been Googling for a while, but most tiny transmitters are either > for "spy" audio apps, or are multi-button jobs for garage doors and > things like that. All I need is a simple on/off fm transmitter that > controls a simple relay on the receiver end, preferably powered by > a couple of AA cells or similar, and the transmitter needs to be > hackable so I can connect the wheel-mounted ptt switch. It should be fairly trivial and inexpensive to use a wireless FM lapel mike. The ones I've had were about 2" long and maybe 3/4" square. The bigger problem would be to keep interference from keying your transceiver, *especially* if you left it turned on in the vehicle. Adding PL encode/decode might be one fairly inexpensive way of dealing with that problem. From dundas at caltech.edu Thu Jul 17 12:16:00 2003 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: Fujitsu (Fuji) Eagle manuals Message-ID: There was a brief discussion here a little over a year ago regarding manuals for the M2351A Eagles. What I didn't see was if the manuals were ever scanned and made available/on-line. Tony or anyone know? I have two M2351As and would like to return them to operational status. Thanks, John From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Jul 17 12:33:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: OT-- need plans for a wireless switch In-Reply-To: <3F16D1B1.D7336678@rain.org> References: <3F12BF19.2934.15D1646@localhost> <3F16D1B1.D7336678@rain.org> Message-ID: Why not just put a foortwitch on the floor - allowing hands-free operation with no wire mess and trying to press a button and turn a corner at the same time.... Of course if you have a manual transmission this might be slightly less than optimal, but I've done it many times with several vehicles - never had a problem. Cheers John KB6SCO From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jul 17 12:51:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: OT-- need plans for a wireless switch In-Reply-To: <3F12BF19.2934.15D1646@localhost> References: <3F12BF19.2934.15D1646@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 nerdware@ctgonline.org wrote: > My next thought is to use the aircraft button, but with a tiny > transmitter/battery mounted on the wheel, with a receiver mounted under > the steering column with a keying relay. Hit the button, the relay > turns on, let up, the relay releases. Perhaps a near-IR LED with a 555 and a 9V battery would work for the "transmitter"? Somewhere I have some plans filed away for something similar. Depending on the output of the LED, and sensitivity of the IR transistor used by the detector circuit, you might not be able to key while making a turn, but then how often would you need to do that? -Toth From ghldbrd at ccp.com Thu Jul 17 13:09:00 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: OT-- need plans for a wireless switch In-Reply-To: <3F12BF19.2934.15D1646@localhost> References: <3F12BF19.2934.15D1646@localhost> Message-ID: <4808.65.123.179.144.1058463945.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> > I'm posting this here because, on the average, you guys are pretty > smart. Not THAT smart, we just try harder than most people. > > I'm trying to put a push-to-talk switch on the steering wheel of my > car so I can key the 2-meter ham radio while keeping both hands > on the wheel. I've got a little boom mic and have built an interface > box, but how to mount the switch has me stumped. > > I picked up one of the velcro aircraft ptt buttons, which mounts > nicely, but even with the relatively short turning radius of my > Subaru it's still a good number of turns lock-to-lock and the coiled > cord has a tendency to get snagged in the space between the > wheel and steering column. > > My next thought is to use the aircraft button, but with a tiny > transmitter/battery mounted on the wheel, with a receiver mounted > under the steering column with a keying relay. Hit the button, the > relay turns on, let up, the relay releases. > > I've been Googling for a while, but most tiny transmitters are either > for "spy" audio apps, or are multi-button jobs for garage doors and > things like that. All I need is a simple on/off fm transmitter that > controls a simple relay on the receiver end, preferably powered by > a couple of AA cells or similar, and the transmitter needs to be > hackable so I can connect the wheel-mounted ptt switch. > > Any suggestions? > > I know this isn't directly related to Classiccmp, but it IS related to > ham radio and electronics, and ham radio and electronics are > related to hamfests, and hamfests attract computer collectors, so > there. I just made the connection. > > Thanks. > > > > Paul Braun > Cygnus Productions > nerdware@ctgonline.org Scrap the button on the wheel idea --- I'd mount a good rugged switch on the floorboard off to the left of the brake pedal. Something on the order of a headlight dimmer switch. With power steering, you really don't need both hands on the wheel anymore. I can't remember back when, when I needed both hands to steer. And I'd say a radio controlled 'PTT' might be a tad illegal under FCC rules of controlling a radio with a radio link. That, if you remember, has to be done on frequencies higher than 222 MHz. One thing I did years ago and people thought I was crazy until they tried it --- mounting the microphone so that it hangs handy for the LEFT HAND instead of the right. Once you get used to it, it makes consommate sense. Keeps right hand free for steering, and automatic tranny shifting. This might entail an extension cable, and another mic jack mounted next to the door somewhere on the dash. In my case, the radio fit best on the LH side. Gary Hildebrand WA7KKP From pds3 at ix.netcom.com Thu Jul 17 14:16:01 2003 From: pds3 at ix.netcom.com (Shannon Hoskins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: updates... References: <20030714093805.H31414@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <000a01c34c8a$095ea020$f50977d8@shannon> Hello, I am interested in: PDP11/03 PDP11/23, 11/73 MVII RD drives PDP11/24, 11/44 and DEC compatible boards by Emulex, CMD, Dilog, etc. Please let me know what you still have and I will make some offers. Sincerely, Shannon Hoskins Pacific Data Systems P.O. Box 444 8062 Hwy. 99E Los Molinos, CA 96055 530/384-2094 voice 530/384-2097 fax pds3@ix.netcom.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Willing" To: Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 9:39 AM Subject: updates... > some new updates on the catalog page: www.rdrop.com/~jimw > > Item 124 might get someones attention... > > Then there will be a slight break in the updates for a week or two while I > get caught up with shipping, moving, and other localized annoyances... > > Thanks; > -jim > --- > jimw@agora.rdrop.com > The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Jul 17 14:48:01 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: IBM POWERstation 220 serial terminal In-Reply-To: <200307140050.h6E0ovR06416@mail.bardstown.com>; from owen@bardstown.com on Mon, Jul 14, 2003 at 02:50:57 CEST References: <200307140050.h6E0ovR06416@mail.bardstown.com> Message-ID: <20030717203316.H327456@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.07.14 02:50 owen@bardstown.com wrote: > I have no video adapter or monitor, can someone tell me the type > (guessing Sun 13W3...) I.e. the machine has a framebuffer but you have no cable? You can use a Sun 13W3 to BNC cable if you only use the R G B BNC plugs. The other 10 pins of a 13W3 connector are different used on Sun and IBM. > Also, can someone provide instructions on how to use this with the > Linux term. program Minicom? What is the problem? Null modem cable, start minicom(1), done. AFAIK you need the diagnistics software or AIX to switch the machine to serial console. I prefer to use cu(1) or tip(1) instead of minicom(1). Less trouble with terminal emulation and more minimalistic. ;-) > And... *grimaces* anyone know HTH to get the cover off ;) Pull down the latch on the back and pull the entire machine out of the cover. At least it works this way on my 250 and I think the 220 and 250 are very similar. Ahh, the lock on the front has to be in service position. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Jul 17 14:50:01 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: Fujitsu (Fuji) Eagle manuals In-Reply-To: ; from dundas@caltech.edu on Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 19:07:13 CEST References: Message-ID: <20030717204144.J327456@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.07.17 19:07 John A. Dundas III wrote: > There was a brief discussion here a little over a year ago > regarding manuals for the M2351A Eagles. Send me a note if you can't find them. I think a friend has the manuals and I have a scanner... -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Thu Jul 17 15:04:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: <20030717153335.GB88881@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030717155153.00a67ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hello Robert, > due to its rounded-off shape This design style has come into practice in the design of many products like portable boom boxes, etc. and even more recently designed automobiles have more rounded, and less angular or rectangular, designs. Doesn't do much for me either. Best Regards At 11:33 AM 7/17/03 -0400, you wrote: >Hopefully this isn't too off-topic, but a thought just occured to me >about computers that some may, or may not, want to collect in the >future, which aren't classics yet. It seems that many of the newer >computers have been designed with uncollectability, as well as a high >degree of user-annoyance, in mind. Somehow, either some marketing >idiots, or clueless enginers, got the idea to design computer >equipment that's unstackable due to its rounded-off shape... the iMacs >and some Compaq PeeCees (e.g. Presario 4814) come to mind. Is anyone >going to be seriously interested in collecting computer equipment that >can't be stacked, and does anyone actually find equipment that can't >be stacked, or have anything stacked on top of it (not even a monitor >or books, etc), to be other than an annoyance? > >-- >Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: >All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & >rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify >such >http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From frustum at pacbell.net Thu Jul 17 15:15:57 2003 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: Recently scanned PDP-8/I schematics available In-Reply-To: <200307151837.OAA02391@parse.com> References: <200307151837.OAA02391@parse.com> Message-ID: <3F16D1CE.2010701@pacbell.net> Robert Krten wrote: > Recent scans of my collection of 17"x22" PDP-8/I schematics are now > available; many are different (newer) revision than others available > on the web. > > http://www.parse.com/~pdp8/pdp8i/drawings.html > > There's a tarball so you can download the whole thing (11 Megs). > > Spozedly, these are 400 DPI scans, so they should be pretty reasonable > quality. Robert -- I recently did a number of large format schematics at 600 dpi, but my file sizes were smaller that yours. So I downloaded one of yours and took a good look. The scanning was done with halftoning turned on, so all of your lines and characters are "fuzzy" -- an attempt to reproduce greyscale at 1bpp. You should have turned off the halftoning and your file size would be much smaller. From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Jul 17 15:17:34 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: Interdata Model 70 on eBay Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030717115311.03da89d8@mail.ubanproductions.com> There is an Interdata Model 70 on eBay, which is going soon. I would be interested in this, but I am out of time, space, and money. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2741450706&category=1247 I have no affiliation with this auction, yada, yada, yada... --tom From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Thu Jul 17 15:22:05 2003 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: <20030717153335.GB88881@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: > Is anyone going to be seriously interested in collecting > computer equipment that can't be stacked, and does anyone > actually find equipment that can't be stacked, or have > anything stacked on top of it (not even a monitor or books, > etc), to be other than an annoyance? Well, a lot of the early integrated keyboard designs (my own favorite, Ohio Scientific, C1, C2 and C4 models), even though you can put a monitor on them, are still a pain. Fortunately, the OSI integrated keyboard models have flat sides and will balance nicely on them, so you can store them on a shelf in that orientation. The pain is that, in factory configuration, there are no external connectors on the floppy cables. You have to disassemble the unit to detach the floppy drives. I sometimes daydream about some kind of shelving/storage system that could efficiently accommodate all of the odd sizes and still provide better access than packed-in-a-box. (I also daydream about renting/owning a floor of an office building and having everything set up and running.) From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jul 17 15:34:01 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: Was: Commodore CBM/PET Now: Reply Trim Rant Message-ID: <20030717203002.20783.qmail@web21110.mail.yahoo.com> > Hey Guyz - not to squelch List traffic, nor appear to be a > NetCop - but d'ya think it might be possible to try and > TRIM YER DAMN REPLY CASCADES???? me too! :-) (maybe that should have been in caps) > I mean, 152 lines of triple-posted reply threads, it's actually remarkably annoying in digest mode too. Seconded only by replies in which people top-post and include the entire original message, headers and all, but without any indentation characters... cheers Jules ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From vance at neurotica.com Thu Jul 17 15:41:00 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: IBM POWERstation 220 serial terminal In-Reply-To: <200307140050.h6E0ovR06416@mail.bardstown.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 owen@bardstown.com wrote: > I have recieved an old IBM Model 7011-220. There is very little > documentation, and IBM has no clue... > > I have no video adapter or monitor, can someone tell me the type > (guessing Sun 13W3...) Nope. IBM 13w3. Completely different. > Also, can someone provide instructions on how to use this with the Linux > term. program Minicom? If you look up how to use the DOS program Telix, you will likely know how to use Minicom. They're quite similar. Unless I'm thinking of a different program. Peace... Sridhar From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jul 17 15:43:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030717155153.00a67ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030717155153.00a67ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <20030717133527.M84454@newshell.lmi.net> On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Mail List wrote: > > due to its rounded-off shape > This design style has come into practice in the design of many products like > portable boom boxes, etc. and even more recently designed automobiles have > more rounded, and less angular or rectangular, designs. Doesn't do much for > me either. They don't stack well either. From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Jul 17 15:54:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: OT: Diamond video card for mac Message-ID: <003401c34ca4$c5051ce0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> I ran across a diamond Javelin Video card that has the mac video connector but looks like it might have the PC bios. My pm7500 wont recognise the card and the drivers cant find it either. Anybody have such a card or know if the bios is flashable? Of course the company that purchased diamond/s3 doesnt support these products anymore. From vance at neurotica.com Thu Jul 17 16:35:01 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: VAX 6360 Message-ID: Does anyone know the power burn on one of these babes without disk? Peace... Sridhar From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Thu Jul 17 16:50:01 2003 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: OT-- need plans for a wireless switch References: <3F12BF19.2934.15D1646@localhost> Message-ID: <055701c34cac$d79f8ef0$6f00a8c0@athlon> If you're really stuck on the 'wireless' solution, I think the cheapest option has to be buying one of those 'el cheapo' wireless doorbells and hacking it to do what you want. DaveB Christchurch, NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 7:32 AM Subject: OT-- need plans for a wireless switch > I'm posting this here because, on the average, you guys are pretty > smart. > > I'm trying to put a push-to-talk switch on the steering wheel of my > car so I can key the 2-meter ham radio while keeping both hands > on the wheel. I've got a little boom mic and have built an interface > box, but how to mount the switch has me stumped. > > I picked up one of the velcro aircraft ptt buttons, which mounts > nicely, but even with the relatively short turning radius of my > Subaru it's still a good number of turns lock-to-lock and the coiled > cord has a tendency to get snagged in the space between the > wheel and steering column. > > My next thought is to use the aircraft button, but with a tiny > transmitter/battery mounted on the wheel, with a receiver mounted > under the steering column with a keying relay. Hit the button, the > relay turns on, let up, the relay releases. > > I've been Googling for a while, but most tiny transmitters are either > for "spy" audio apps, or are multi-button jobs for garage doors and > things like that. All I need is a simple on/off fm transmitter that > controls a simple relay on the receiver end, preferably powered by > a couple of AA cells or similar, and the transmitter needs to be > hackable so I can connect the wheel-mounted ptt switch. > > Any suggestions? > > I know this isn't directly related to Classiccmp, but it IS related to > ham radio and electronics, and ham radio and electronics are > related to hamfests, and hamfests attract computer collectors, so > there. I just made the connection. > > Thanks. > > > > Paul Braun > Cygnus Productions > nerdware@ctgonline.org From oldcomp at cox.net Thu Jul 17 16:54:00 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: OT-- need plans for a wireless switch References: <3F12BF19.2934.15D1646@localhost> Message-ID: <3F171A4C.8040903@cox.net> I second the motion! Use an IR link! Use of a frequency selective IR Tx/Rx system will prevent unwanted keying of your transmitter, and if it is anything like the ones I have built, the reflected signal will be enough to make it work (no need to be line of sight). Using RF to create a link is asking for trouble, not to mention a lot more work. Check FCC regs, this is considered remote transmitter control. If you choose to go RF, use a coded transmitter similar to a remote entry key, not a PL based one, since even that is susceptible to interference. Holtek makes a few Tx/Rx chips with digital coding. You can buy the chips at digikey.com. (But don't use them! Go IR!) -Bryan Tothwolf wrote: >On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 nerdware@ctgonline.org wrote: > > > >>My next thought is to use the aircraft button, but with a tiny >>transmitter/battery mounted on the wheel, with a receiver mounted under >>the steering column with a keying relay. Hit the button, the relay >>turns on, let up, the relay releases. >> >> > >Perhaps a near-IR LED with a 555 and a 9V battery would work for the >"transmitter"? Somewhere I have some plans filed away for something >similar. Depending on the output of the LED, and sensitivity of the IR >transistor used by the detector circuit, you might not be able to key >while making a turn, but then how often would you need to do that? > >-Toth From allain at panix.com Thu Jul 17 17:34:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: VAX 6360 References: Message-ID: <012d01c34cb2$c93fd800$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> The 6000 family is supposedly 1.4KW. YKWMV John A. Ref: VAX 6000 Platform Technical User's Guide EK-600EA-TM-001 From aek at spies.com Thu Jul 17 18:07:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: Fujitsu (Fuji) Eagle manuals Message-ID: <200307172306.h6HN6k4q014407@spies.com> > What I didn't see was if the manuals were ever scanned and made available/on-line. www.spies.com/aek/pdf/fujitsu/B03P-4655-0001A_2351_Dec84.pdf From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 17 18:33:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: plotter In-Reply-To: <20030715210831.41500.qmail@marmara.edu.tr> from "Kenan TOKER" at Jul 16, 3 00:08:31 am Message-ID: > The broken gear is occured because of using thickker paper. This is true for If this is refering to those little 4-ballpoint-pen plotters used by Sharp, Commodore, Radio Shack, etc then I disagree. I've had several fail (Radio Shack CGP115, Oric Printer, Sharp PC1500 series plotter, etc) while in storage. And I never used anything by the correct paper in them. > this mechanism made by ALPS. You can fix it by using a cement which has two > elements to combine and get rigit. Then the gear is permanently stabilize. I've not found anything that will reliably stick to the plastic for said pinion. 2-pack epoxy resin adhesives (Araldite, etc) certainly don't. And no common plastic solvent disolves that plastic either. > Kenan > -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 17 18:34:50 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: HP Integral In-Reply-To: <200307170821.h6H8L7hY012929@king.mcs.drexel.edu> from "Vassilis Prevelakis" at Jul 17, 3 04:21:07 am Message-ID: > Check Pete Johnson's website dedicated to the IPC > (http://www.coho.org/~pete/IPC/integral.html) Thanks.. I discovered this site a couple of hours after posting my initial question,. and have downloaded most of the freeware disk images. I've not tried them yet -- my Integral is currenly in many pieces while I investigate the hardware side of things. > > He has practically *all* the software for this machine. The only Alas much of it (C development stuff, etc) is still HP copyright and therefroe can't be distributed. > bad ting I can say for the site is that the HPUX utilities work > only on big-endian machines. I have written a converter tool Yes, I noticed that :-(. Or rather, I downloaded them, compiled them without problems, but got some odd error messages when I tried to read a filesystem image. I guessed it was a bytesexual problem. > (HPUX filesystem image to tar [1]) that is hopefully platform > independent, and I will send it to him after I have tried it a bit > to make sure that it is mostly bug free. I'd be interested in that, provided it's not _too_ large (doesn't sound like it should be) and provided it'll compile on my ancient linux system. > I think that the daughterboards have standard parts so it should be Looking at that site, it appears that the program development ROM was a plug-in card that went into a normal expansion slot. Which makes be wonder just what did fit inside the ROM cartridge other than the OS ROMs. There's certainly space for another board with 4 ROM chips on it, and a spare pair of chip select lines (remember the ROMs are in pairs, high byte and low byte, so there are only 2 blocks of ROM if you have 4 chips, so you only need 2 chip selects). > possible to create replacements. I have the BASIC sub-daughterboard so The OS ROM cartridge I have contains 4 531000 ROMs (128K*8) and a 74x21 AND gate used to produve the RDTAck/ signal. The ROMs are mask-programmed, of course. I should be possible to kludge in 128K byte EPROMs, though. > I can send you a dump of the BASIC ROMs if I can find where they are > mapped into the 68K address space. If this is part of the OS ROM cartridge, then I think that entire cartridge occupies the first 512k words of the 68K's address space. THE OS ROMs are the first 256K words, the daughterboard is the second 256K words. And I also think these addresses are not messed about with by the MMU cirucit. Hang on -- I have another thought that the upper and lower halves of the address space are swapped round depending on whether the CPU is in supervisor state or not. Certainly after reset, the ROMs must be mapped at the lowere end of the address space (so the 68K can find a reset vector). > > I have used the IPC to access HP-IL peripherals via the HP-IB port > (using the 82169A HP-IL/HP-IB Interface), and I think it would be I thought that might work, but haven't tried it yet. > trivial to write a short program to talk with computers over the HP-IL > via the HP-IL serial interface. 2 problems... (a) I can't believe stnadard software will manage to use an RS232 port added in that way (b) It's supposed to be a portable computer. I don't want to have to carry round the 82169, 82164, 82165 (if I want a parallel interface), and all the PSU blocks for them.... However, it will be useful to be able to link up IL devices in this way... What I really need is a GPIO-like port ( a portable machine with at least 16 and preferebly 32 user I/O lines is something I'd like). There seem to be 2 ways to get this 1) Make an HPIB -> GPIO converter. It doesn't matter if it's not compatible with anything else since a user port, almost by definition, is driven by my own porgrams. 2) Make an I/O card for the Integral. I have an aproximation to the bus pinout, and I think I know what most of the signals do. But I don't know how the 'registers' mentioned in the I/O manual are actually mapped to 68K addresses (assuming the exist at all, and are not a creation of some driver software). > > There is also a built-in HP-IL interface (to talk to the built-in > ThinkJet), but it is directly connected to the ThinkJet without the Yes, I found the 1LB3 chip next to the Thinkjet printer chipset. The Thinkjet uses the HPIL/HPIB[1] version of the processor. [1] The HPIB thinkjet (2225A) has an HPIB-HPIL converter at the back linked by a short, not transformer coupled, HPIL loop to the Thinkjet CPU. > transformers and (anyway) I have not found a way to address the > ThinkJet using IL addressing (rather than the /dev/internal interface). What's /dev/internal? My manuals don't mention this (I think) -- as I said some of them are pretty lusing... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 17 18:36:19 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: M220B (PDP-8/I) schematics available In-Reply-To: <200307141230.IAA16552@parse.com> from "Robert Krten" at Jul 14, 3 08:30:54 am Message-ID: > > going. Oh, and a 7482 adder, which was impossible to find [1]... [...] > > [1] I do mean _iompossible_. I ended up using part of a 7483 that I stuck > > to the flip-chip PCB dead-bug style and wired to the holes where the 7482 > > should have been. Runs fine... > > Bzzt. Wrong. (First, you probably mean "_impossible_" :-)). > I just bought 5 of them for US$1.25 (or so) each from > Gateway Electronics. Along with spare 7453, 7460, 7440, etc. I think it's > something like "gatewayelex.com". Notice I said 'was impossible to find'. At the time I was repairing this, some 10 years ago (Eeek!), no UK supplier could supply them (and I tried...). This was before the Internet was commonly available in the UK, and we didn't really know the US suppliers of old chips. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 17 18:37:48 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: <20030717153335.GB88881@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Jul 17, 3 11:33:36 am Message-ID: > Hopefully this isn't too off-topic, but a thought just occured to me > about computers that some may, or may not, want to collect in the > future, which aren't classics yet. It seems that many of the newer It does worry me that there's not a single microcomputer system made today that I actually want to own.... > computers have been designed with uncollectability, as well as a high > degree of user-annoyance, in mind. Somehow, either some marketing > idiots, or clueless enginers, got the idea to design computer > equipment that's unstackable due to its rounded-off shape... the iMacs This is a problem, albeit a minor one (you can always fit shelves, etc round the stupidly-shaped machines so as to put other things on top). I do wonder, actually, if the shape is designed to prevent the user from stacking stuff on top of the machine and blocking the cooling vents, etc. More of a problem is that modern machines are plain unrepairable. Spares are unavailable even now (when the machine is in production -- you try getting an ASIC for an Imac or similar...), so %deity knows what it'll be like in 10 years time. Technical manuals don't exist. The chances of being able to keep these machines running is minimal :-( -tony From jrasite at eoni.com Thu Jul 17 18:52:00 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: Any interest in a TRaSh-80? References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030717115311.03da89d8@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3F1735A8.4030906@eoni.com> Local second hand store has on that looks to my untrained eye to be complete. In box. Has system box, cassette drive, some cables and a few tapes. Box says: Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Computer 2 (IIRC). Anyone have a burning desire to own it? Jim From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jul 17 19:51:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: plotter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > this mechanism made by ALPS. You can fix it by using a cement which > > has two elements to combine and get rigit. Then the gear is > > permanently stabilize. > > I've not found anything that will reliably stick to the plastic for said > pinion. 2-pack epoxy resin adhesives (Araldite, etc) certainly don't. > And no common plastic solvent disolves that plastic either. I actually don't know of *anything* that can bond nylon plastic (be it solvent or epoxy). AFAIK, nylon has to be formed under heat and pressure, otherwise it won't hold. I've tried melting nylon together in the past, and it seems to only become brittle. -Toth From vance at neurotica.com Thu Jul 17 20:12:01 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: HP Integral In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > He has practically *all* the software for this machine. The only > > Alas much of it (C development stuff, etc) is still HP copyright and > therefroe can't be distributed. How close is it to being considered abandonware by HP? Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Thu Jul 17 20:14:00 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > Hopefully this isn't too off-topic, but a thought just occured to me > > about computers that some may, or may not, want to collect in the > > future, which aren't classics yet. It seems that many of the newer > > It does worry me that there's not a single microcomputer system made > today that I actually want to own.... There is one microcomputer I would love to have. The Power Mac G5. Peace... Sridhar From ptremewe at bigpond.net.au Thu Jul 17 20:34:00 2003 From: ptremewe at bigpond.net.au (peter tremewen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: Any interest in a TRaSh-80? References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030717115311.03da89d8@mail.ubanproductions.com> <3F1735A8.4030906@eoni.com> Message-ID: <04a301c34ccb$d44e9e20$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> What your location Jim?? I'd byte, but postage might become an issue for me...... PeterT. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim To: Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 9:47 AM Subject: Any interest in a TRaSh-80? > Local second hand store has on that looks to my untrained eye to be > complete. In box. Has system box, cassette drive, some cables and a > few tapes. Box says: Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Computer 2 (IIRC). > > Anyone have a burning desire to own it? > > Jim From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jul 17 20:38:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: MT-80Z Micro Professor Manuals In-Reply-To: <643810430281D61185550002A5F06E7E0477999B@mail901.dtra.mil> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030717202737.3dafd5b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Larry, There was a set on E-bay just a week or two ago. Joe At 01:43 PM 7/15/03 -0400, you wrote: >Glen > >Noticed your posting about the missing manuals for the E&L z80 trainer. >I am also in same boat, just won mine on ebay,,, minus manuals etc > >Did you ever locate any manuals, experimenter books for the unit? > >Larry From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jul 17 20:39:33 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: Data Systems Design DSD-880 8" floppy and hard drive? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030717205309.3daf3460@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Anybody know anything about a DSD-880 8" floppy and hard drive unit made by Data Systems Design? (Black rack mount box about 6" high and 28" deep.) I found several of them today. I'm pretty certain that they came off of a system tester or circuit board tester based on a DEC computer. The units had a Shugart 800-1 8" SSDD floppy drive and a Quantum Q2040 8" hard drive in them and a INTERESTING looking front panel that said "Hyper Diagnostics" or something like that. I bought a HUGE lot of 8" floppy disks from the same place. They almost certainly came from the same systems. The disks contained RT-11 and RSX. I found that some of the disks had the driver and diagnostics for the DSD-880. Also found copies of distribution disks for RT-11 and RSX in the same pile. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jul 17 20:41:03 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: HP9000/300 Computers, CS80 Disks and Windows Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030717213357.3db7bac0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:09 AM 7/16/03 -0700, you wrote: >Hello, > >I am new to the list. > >My classic computer collection is mainly DEC but I >must use "classic" HPs at work. Hence my current >problem. > >We have multiple HP9000/300 computers connected via SRM >to a HP9826 computer running SRM ver 3.12. We also >have several standalone Viper board based PCs. Hi Max, I have a pile of vipers too. I've hooked up one of them and played with it but never got around to doing anything serious with them. I've been collecting HP 9000 200 and 300s for several years and have a good size pile of them along with the disk drives and other bits and pieces. > >My current problem is that one of the hard drives >attached to the HP9826 has died. It was a HP7937 HP-IB >drive. I believe it was a CS80 device. A 7937? Are you sure that's the right model number? I don't recognize it and it's not in my configuration book. (I'm too tired/lazy to go dig through the catalogs.) I have backups >made with a HP9144 tape drive. > >We could buy a refurbished drive. We were quoted $1300 >for a HP7937. I would like to avoid that. Since I only >need a few files from the backup and my application >could run from the Viper board, if I could get the >files into a MS-DOS format, my problem would be solved. I quess you don't know that you CAN boot from a 9144. I read in one of the HP manuals that you could but they said that they don't recommend it except in cases of emergencies. I had plenty of 9144s and tapes and wasn't worried about wearing them out so I tried it and it worked! It took about 15 minutes instead of 5 seconds, but it worked! Also do you HAVE to have a 7937? I have some 7957s, 7958, 9153s and other CS-80 drives. > > >I looked through the archives and ran across a thread >"HP storage formats on ss80 protocol disks". It seems >work has begun on a Windows program to read at least >LIF volumes attached to a NI-GPIB board. I have acess >to such. > >The files are RMB ver 5.13 files. The drive that died >was not the boot device. ???? If the dead drive isn't the boot device then why can't you boot and then read the files from the tape? Then just dunp it over a null MODEM cable to a PC or other computer of your choice. Or you can put it on a floppy disks and use the LIF Utils to read that into a PC. The LIF Utils are now public domain and can be downloaded from several places on the net including from HP. > >Couple of questions: >1) What format is the SRM backups in? LIF? HFS? Other? AFIK backups aren't in any specail or compressed format. They're in the same format as the operating drives. I've neve rused the SRM OS so I don't know what format it uses but if you do a CAT of a drive it will tell you at the top of the listing what the format is. >2) Peter Brown, would you share your software? I'm sure that he will share it but it's not going to help much. It just does a raw data dump. It doesn't care about directories, sub-directories, file allocation or anything else. it just starts at sector 1 bit 1 and dumps the entire drive. Joe > >I am also open to other suggestions. If you have a >HP7937 drive or similar, we can talk. Either purchase >or trade. We have a spare HP9826 computer with a dead >display along with extra HP9000/300 computers. > > >Thanks >Max From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Jul 17 20:43:01 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030718014024.GC88881@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe vance@neurotica.com, from writings of Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 09:10:21PM -0400: > On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > It does worry me that there's not a single microcomputer system made > > today that I actually want to own.... > > There is one microcomputer I would love to have. The Power Mac G5. One of those certainly would be useful for the music and sound synthesis software that won't run on my fastest, older, Power Mac, although the machine would be more enjoyable if it resembled a PDP-11/45, was built mostly from TTL ICs and came with schematics, firmware sources and OS sources. If I ever acquire one of those Power Mac G5s, I'll probably apply a hacksaw to the handles on the top of the case so that it will be a stackable machine upon which other equipment, books, papers, tools, etc. can be stacked while it's in use. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jul 17 20:45:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: HP Integral In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030717214255.48ff5cae@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:08 PM 7/17/03 -0400, you wrote: >On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > >> > He has practically *all* the software for this machine. The only >> >> Alas much of it (C development stuff, etc) is still HP copyright and >> therefroe can't be distributed. > >How close is it to being considered abandonware by HP? I know for a fact that HP dropped support for these many years ago and literally threw out their remaining software/hardware/manuals/testers. I think we can safely say that they've abandoned it. BTW I have HP-IL cards, serial port cards, a combined serial port and memory card, Technical BASIC in ROM and even a Diagnostics ROM for the IPC. I think I have all or nearly all of the docs, software and manuals that they ever produced for it. And yes, the Tech BASIC ROM is made of standard parts. Joe From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Jul 17 20:47:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: IBM Wheelwriter find Need Info Message-ID: <009401c34cce$09b11500$510add40@oemcomputer> Picked up a IBM Wheelwriter30 Series II today and was wondering if it can be used as a front-end input device? From jrasite at eoni.com Thu Jul 17 20:52:00 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: Any interest in a TRaSh-80? References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030717115311.03da89d8@mail.ubanproductions.com> <3F1735A8.4030906@eoni.com> <04a301c34ccb$d44e9e20$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: <3F1751F1.4020202@eoni.com> I'm in NE Oregon. 97883 to be exact. Jim peter tremewen wrote: >What your location Jim?? I'd byte, but postage might become an issue for >me...... > > PeterT. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Jim >To: >Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 9:47 AM >Subject: Any interest in a TRaSh-80? > > > > >>Local second hand store has on that looks to my untrained eye to be >>complete. In box. Has system box, cassette drive, some cables and a >>few tapes. Box says: Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Computer 2 (IIRC). >> >>Anyone have a burning desire to own it? >> >>Jim >> >> > >. From vance at neurotica.com Thu Jul 17 21:04:00 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: <20030718014024.GC88881@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, R. D. Davis wrote: > > > It does worry me that there's not a single microcomputer system made > > > today that I actually want to own.... > > > > There is one microcomputer I would love to have. The Power Mac G5. > > One of those certainly would be useful for the music and sound synthesis > software that won't run on my fastest, older, Power Mac, although the > machine would be more enjoyable if it resembled a PDP-11/45, was built > mostly from TTL ICs and came with schematics, firmware sources and OS > sources. If I ever acquire one of those Power Mac G5s, I'll probably > apply a hacksaw to the handles on the top of the case so that it will be > a stackable machine upon which other equipment, books, papers, tools, > etc. can be stacked while it's in use. :-) If it were built from TTL IC's, would it still be a microcomputer? Peace... Sridhar From spectre at floodgap.com Thu Jul 17 21:25:01 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: from "vance@neurotica.com" at "Jul 17, 3 09:10:21 pm" Message-ID: <200307180233.TAA09380@floodgap.com> > > > Hopefully this isn't too off-topic, but a thought just occured to me > > > about computers that some may, or may not, want to collect in the > > > future, which aren't classics yet. It seems that many of the newer > > > > It does worry me that there's not a single microcomputer system made > > today that I actually want to own.... > > There is one microcomputer I would love to have. The Power Mac G5. Me too. Need some bucks though, and a good excuse to dump the dual G4 I already own. ;-) -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- FORTUNE: You're wise, but not wise enough not to read this sort of drivel. - From ghldbrd at ccp.com Thu Jul 17 21:40:00 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: OT-- need plans for a wireless switch In-Reply-To: <3F171A4C.8040903@cox.net> References: <3F12BF19.2934.15D1646@localhost> <3F171A4C.8040903@cox.net> Message-ID: <4966.65.123.179.125.1058495411.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> I'd think a bit about IR, because of the following: My neighbor complained that my ham gear was turning her television set on. IR control was being triggered by sunlight wafting in through drapes and blinds, and happened to hit the right pulse sequence to turn on the set. I've heard that is not unusual. Being "outside", you might have something like that key up your transmitter when you don't want it to. I'd stick with a hardwire PTT switch of some sort. Gary Hildebrand WA7KKP > I second the motion! Use an IR link! Use of a frequency selective IR > Tx/Rx system will prevent unwanted keying of your transmitter, and if it > is anything like the ones I have built, the reflected signal will be > enough to make it work (no need to be line of sight). > > Using RF to create a link is asking for trouble, not to mention a lot > more work. Check FCC regs, this is considered remote transmitter > control. If you choose to go RF, use a coded transmitter similar to a > remote entry key, not a PL based one, since even that is susceptible to > interference. Holtek makes a few Tx/Rx chips with digital coding. You > can buy the chips at digikey.com. (But don't use them! Go IR!) > > -Bryan From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Jul 17 21:51:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: <200307180233.TAA09380@floodgap.com> References: <200307180233.TAA09380@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <20030718025002.GD88881@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Cameron Kaiser, from writings of Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 07:33:42PM -0700: > > There is one microcomputer I would love to have. The Power Mac G5. > > Me too. Need some bucks though, and a good excuse to dump the dual G4 > I already own. ;-) Just tell us which dumpster you're going to dump it into! To save you the trouble of dumping it somewhere, surely someone on the list will make a free pickup. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From thompson at new.rr.com Thu Jul 17 21:55:01 2003 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:52 2005 Subject: IBM POWERstation 220 serial terminal In-Reply-To: <200307140050.h6E0ovR06416@mail.bardstown.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 owen@bardstown.com wrote: > Greetings, > > I have recieved an old IBM Model 7011-220. There is very little documentation, > and IBM has no clue... > > And... *grimaces* anyone know HTH to get the cover off ;) > The key must be in service mode for the cover to come off. You have the key, right? ;-) I use minicom as the console for mine. Paul -- From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jul 17 22:00:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: from "Cameron Kaiser" at Jul 17, 2003 07:33:42 PM Message-ID: <200307180256.h6I2uP1Q026598@shell1.aracnet.com> > > There is one microcomputer I would love to have. The Power Mac G5. > > Me too. Need some bucks though, and a good excuse to dump the dual G4 > I already own. ;-) Same here, I've finally gotten over my dislike of Mac OS X, and am *REALLY* liking it. Largely because it's got Unix underneath which means I can use it both as my Mac and as my Unix box. My G4/450 is one of the originals, and finally starting to feel a little old and slow (not bad considering it's almost 4 years old). Though my video card rocks, I bought an ATI Radeon 9000 for it :^) It's really nice running all my Adobe App's, MS Office, and Eudora on a system with Unix underneat! I *REALLY* want a dual G5, unfortunatly I'm not going to be able to get a G5 anytime soon :^( Still by the time I can get one they should be even better :^) Zane From oldcomp at cox.net Thu Jul 17 22:09:00 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: OT-- need plans for a wireless switch References: <3F12BF19.2934.15D1646@localhost> <3F171A4C.8040903@cox.net> <4966.65.123.179.125.1058495411.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Message-ID: <3F1763BB.6040908@cox.net> I wouldn't use a simple on/off IR signal. I'm talking about a modulated/ decoded signal. Sunlight will not affect that. An RF link is far more susceptible to RF interference than an IR signal (if the IR receiver is properly shielded, and most come already shielded). If the front end of an RF receiver becomes saturated, it is even more susceptible. Until now, I've never heard of a TV being activated by RF through the IR electronics. I won't say it can't happen, but I would not give it very good odds. -Bryan ghldbrd@ccp.com wrote: >I'd think a bit about IR, because of the following: > >My neighbor complained that my ham gear was turning her television set on. > IR control was being triggered by sunlight wafting in through drapes and >blinds, and happened to hit the right pulse sequence to turn on the set. >I've heard that is not unusual. > >Being "outside", you might have something like that key up your >transmitter when you don't want it to. I'd stick with a hardwire PTT >switch of some sort. > >Gary Hildebrand WA7KKP > > > > >>I second the motion! Use an IR link! Use of a frequency selective IR >>Tx/Rx system will prevent unwanted keying of your transmitter, and if it >>is anything like the ones I have built, the reflected signal will be >>enough to make it work (no need to be line of sight). >> >>Using RF to create a link is asking for trouble, not to mention a lot >>more work. Check FCC regs, this is considered remote transmitter >>control. If you choose to go RF, use a coded transmitter similar to a >>remote entry key, not a PL based one, since even that is susceptible to >>interference. Holtek makes a few Tx/Rx chips with digital coding. You >>can buy the chips at digikey.com. (But don't use them! Go IR!) >> >>-Bryan From ghldbrd at ccp.com Thu Jul 17 22:17:01 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: OT-- need plans for a wireless switch In-Reply-To: <3F1763BB.6040908@cox.net> References: <3F12BF19.2934.15D1646@localhost> <3F171A4C.8040903@cox.net> <4966.65.123.179.125.1058495411.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> <3F1763BB.6040908@cox.net> Message-ID: <1081.65.123.179.125.1058497605.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> > I wouldn't use a simple on/off IR signal. I'm talking about a modulated/ > decoded signal. Sunlight will not affect that. An RF link is far more > susceptible to RF interference than an IR signal (if the IR receiver is > properly shielded, and most come already shielded). If the front end of > an RF receiver becomes saturated, it is even more susceptible. Until > now, I've never heard of a TV being activated by RF through the IR > electronics. I won't say it can't happen, but I would not give it very > good odds. > > -Bryan > > ghldbrd@ccp.com wrote: >> IR control was being triggered by sunlight wafting in through drapes and >>blinds, and happened to hit the right pulse sequence to turn on the set. >>I've heard that is not unusual. From swperk at earthlink.net Thu Jul 17 22:26:00 2003 From: swperk at earthlink.net (Stan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: Can anyone id these HP ICs? In-Reply-To: <20030716170001.19713.80431.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: Hi Joe, The 05370-60022 part number IDs this as the Arming Board from the HP 5370A/B counter. The 1820-0753 is an ECL dual 3-input gate, the 1820-1999 is a multiplexer, and the 1820-2000 is a D flip-flop. These are all ECL IC's, and on each of them the two end pins are connected to the substrate and tied to the -5.2 V bus. These two pins act as both power input and heat sinks for the chip. Stan Message: 3 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:54:54 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org From: Joe Subject: Re: Can anyone id these HP ICs? (Joe) Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Bingo! You're right. It's part number is 05370-60022. I had tried to look up that number but all I found was a scanner with the same PN. Do you have a service manual for this? If so, can you tell me what these parts are? PNs 1820-0753, 1820-2000 and 1820-1999. Joe At 10:55 AM 7/15/03 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Joe, > >Your board looks like one of the interpolator cards from an HP 5370A Universal Time Interval Counter. Do you see an "05370-6xxxx" part number on the board anywhere? > > >Message: 14 >Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:52:26 >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >From: Joe >Subject: Re: Can anyone id these HP ICs? >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >Hi Ed, > > I posted a picture at >. >I unplugged the two ICs in the top RH corner and turned them over so that >you can see the bottom and side of the ICs and the heat sink that the IC >normally sits on. There is a depression in the bottom of the IC case and a >rasied pad on the heatsink that fits into the depression. I've never seen >anything like this before! Note the delay line (?) on the LH side of the >card. Sorry I couldn't get a better picture. This is as close as I could >get with my camera. > > Joe --__--__-- From vance at neurotica.com Thu Jul 17 23:09:00 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: <200307180233.TAA09380@floodgap.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > > Hopefully this isn't too off-topic, but a thought just occured to > > > > me about computers that some may, or may not, want to collect in > > > > the future, which aren't classics yet. It seems that many of the > > > > newer > > > > > > It does worry me that there's not a single microcomputer system made > > > today that I actually want to own.... > > > > There is one microcomputer I would love to have. The Power Mac G5. > > Me too. Need some bucks though, and a good excuse to dump the dual G4 I > already own. ;-) As far as I'm concerned, the G5 is enough excuse to sell a G4. 8-) It's schweeeeet. Peace... Sridhar From nedry at mail.bedlambells.com Fri Jul 18 01:55:00 2003 From: nedry at mail.bedlambells.com (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: Old Word Processors and Now In-Reply-To: <3F1323E0.C995B018@eagle.ca> References: <20030714170001.4026.8150.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030718074835.0172be30@mail.bedlambells.com> Heh. That's cool. I was 12 when I was doing the shouting. Now I have a 12 year old daughter to shout at (:, or more recently, she has started to shout at me... this is a bad sign. I quit my "job before this one" as Technical Manager of a computer training company, largely because I kept being pressed into to teaching things like Windows NT 4 Admin at short notice. I mean, real short notice, no notes, just my copy of "Inside Windows NT 4 Server"... Take Care, Mark At 17:42 14/07/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Well Mark, I'm still teaching word processing and the short cuts are >CTRL-S and CTRL-L and >I mention it most every day. I can remember using an Applewiter-clone and >the formatting commands >haven't chnaged. Why do away with things that work and make sense even if >students forget them!!! >I try not to scream though. Not good for a teacher. > >Murray > > > > > Message: 9 > > Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:00:20 +0100 > > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > From: Mark Firestone > > Subject: Re: Old Word Processors > > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > > I can still remember screaming at my father (I must have been 13 at time > > time) "it's CTRL-S to save, and CTRL-L to load. How could they make it > > simpler for you?" when he was trying to use Applewriter //e, a very nice, > > full featured, non-WYSIWYG word processor. Good old . formatting commands. [---------] "Homer, we don't have to have sex." "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." "Deserts aren't always right Homer." "But they're so delicious." Website: retrobbs.org BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org [---------] From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 18 02:00:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: 8-inch disk drives In-Reply-To: <20030717093320.K81976@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <20030718065644.6712.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Fred Cisin wrote: > On Tue, 15 Jul 2003, Jo Cooley wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm new to the list and am currently trying to find a solution to > > transfering data/software from 8-inch disks to a pc.  > > We have a working minc-II with two floppy drives... > > One suggestion was to get an old 8-inch floppy drive and hook it > > directly to the pc... > DONE. > the 1.2M controller in the PC will operate MOST (those wishing to list > obscure exceptions,...) 8" "industry standard" drives, probably including > ones borrowed from the minc. Umm... Fred, what you may not know is that a MINC-11 comes with an RX02 floppy drive - definitely not "industry standard" (unless your industry is DEC ;-) Personally, I'd go with the ASCII console as the easiest path. -ethan From nedry at mail.bedlambells.com Fri Jul 18 02:12:00 2003 From: nedry at mail.bedlambells.com (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: Commodore CBM/PET in Terminator 3 In-Reply-To: <009601c34bc2$4a5aa920$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030708140243.021c8ef8@mail.bedlambells.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030711113553.00bab838@mail.bedlambells.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030716101521.022d9b38@mail.bedlambells.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030718075909.017b7ca0@mail.bedlambells.com> I'll stop by. It must be fifteen years sense I ran into you last.... Wow... I'm sure they'd have that poor computer in bits, (heh, pun intended) and still wouldn't let me on the plane with it. I wonder if I could get away with checked baggage... I tried that with a big clock in a duffel bag at Manchester (UK) airport, years ago. I got all my bags emptied in front of me for the trouble. "Tell me about this clock, sir." It was obviously not a terrorist device, didn't have sticks of dynamite attached, or anything. I bet it's twice as bad now! Ed, tell us about this picture, for the web site and all! http://retrobbs.org/pictures/edsharpe/edsharpe.html At 10:47 16/07/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Mark! > >It would be tricky to carry the Imsai on the plane as carry on luggage! > >I remember the good ol' pre 911 days when I would walk on the plane with >whimhurst machines, pieces of old radar sets... etc.... ( whimhurst machine >makes static electricity.... has counter revolving glass plates lyden jars >stc....) > >You are welcome to stop by, the July - aug timeframe is our main >construction time here at the museum but if there are safe paths happy to >show you though! > >Here in Arizona of course we have opposite tourist seasons from he rest of >the world it seems.... winter good summer echchch ( 116 degrees the >other day) so summer time is work on the building and displays time. to >get ready for September October! > >Thank you for the invitation Mark, may not make the event on Sat. night as I >am usually by the end of the day pretty grimy, dehydrated and tired! but... >please do stop by and visit. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Mark Firestone" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 2:17 AM >Subject: Re: Commodore CBM/PET in Terminator 3 > > > > Thanks Ed! I can't wait till he sends it to my folks... and they send it > > on to me here in the UK. > > > > Say, you're an old time BBSer. I think you even used to call my > > board. I'm going to be in town from the 29th to the 6th, and we are >having > > a party at Paul Nicolaides house on Saturday. > > > > I'll definitely stop by Corey house and say hi, but I was wondering if you > > fancied turning up at Paul's on Saturday night? The invitation extends to > > anyone else on the list who finds themselves (or lives) in Phoenix ... > > > > Take Care, > > > > Mark > > > > At 22:08 15/07/2003 -0700, you wrote: > > >Congrats on your Imsai Mark! > > > > > >Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC > > > > > >Please check our web site at > > > http://www.smecc.org > > >to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we > > >buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. > > > > > >address: > > > > > > coury house / smecc > > >5802 w palmaire ave > > >glendale az 85301 > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Mark Firestone" > > >To: > > >Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 3:36 AM > > >Subject: Re: Commodore CBM/PET in Terminator 3 > > > > > > > > > > Cool! I'll check that out. Someone in CA is supposed to ship a >IMASAI > > > > 8080 to my parents house, so I can get them to ship it to the UK. I >can't > > > > wait... wargames here I come! > > > > > > > > > > > > At 13:23 10/07/2003 -0400, you wrote: > > > > >In the Canadian Movie "Trudeau" about the former Canadian Prime >minister, > > > > >you can spot 3 PETs. One Chicklet PET, a Super PET 9000 and a CBM >8032 > > >with > > > > >disk drive. > > > > >The production team rented them two years ago from my museum. > > > > > > > > > >PETs are awesome movie props :) > > > > > > > > > >Herbert > > > > > > > > > >on 7/8/03 9:03 AM, Mark Firestone at nedry@mail.bedlambells.com >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I haven't seen it yet, but Captain Kirk owns one! Check out Star >Trek > > > > > > II... in his apartment... > > > > > > > > > > > > At 08:45 08/07/2003 -0400, you wrote: > > > > > >> Anyone else spot that one near the end of the movie? It was one >of > > >the > > > > > >> 80-column models. > > > > > >> Not sure what any of the other "30-year old" computers were. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> -Frank > > > > > > > > > > > > [---------] > > > > > > "Homer, we don't have to have sex." > > > > > > "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." > > > > > > "Deserts aren't always right Homer." > > > > > > "But they're so delicious." > > > > > > > > > > > > Website: retrobbs.org > > > > > > BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 > > > > > > Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org > > > > > > [---------] > > > > > > > > [---------] > > > > "Homer, we don't have to have sex." > > > > "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." > > > > "Deserts aren't always right Homer." > > > > "But they're so delicious." > > > > > > > > Website: retrobbs.org > > > > BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 > > > > Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org > > > > [---------] > > > > [---------] > > "Homer, we don't have to have sex." > > "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." > > "Deserts aren't always right Homer." > > "But they're so delicious." > > > > Website: retrobbs.org > > BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 > > Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org > > [---------] [---------] "Homer, we don't have to have sex." "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." "Deserts aren't always right Homer." "But they're so delicious." Website: retrobbs.org BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org [---------] From nedry at mail.bedlambells.com Fri Jul 18 02:18:00 2003 From: nedry at mail.bedlambells.com (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: OT-- need plans for a wireless switch In-Reply-To: <3F12BF19.2934.15D1646@localhost> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030718081127.016f12a0@mail.bedlambells.com> I always wondered how they hooked up wiring to things that rotate, like helicopter blades. With brushes? At 14:32 14/07/2003 -0500, you wrote: >I'm posting this here because, on the average, you guys are pretty >smart. > >I'm trying to put a push-to-talk switch on the steering wheel of my >car so I can key the 2-meter ham radio while keeping both hands >on the wheel. I've got a little boom mic and have built an interface >box, but how to mount the switch has me stumped. [---------] "Homer, we don't have to have sex." "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." "Deserts aren't always right Homer." "But they're so delicious." Website: retrobbs.org BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org [---------] From mrjackson99_uk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jul 18 03:44:00 2003 From: mrjackson99_uk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Mark=20Jackson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: Cray Memorabilia Message-ID: <20030718084011.75326.qmail@web20416.mail.yahoo.com> Interesting Cray memorabilia for sale on ebay (with pcitures). Check it out http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2742835004&ssPageName=ADME:B:LC:UK:1 ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From allain at panix.com Fri Jul 18 07:58:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... References: <200307180233.TAA09380@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <007201c34d2b$8b853040$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > There is one microcomputer I would love to have. The Power Mac G5. Can you convince the rest of us? Does OS/X render all the earlier Macs obsolete? Why would somebody need a G5? John A. From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Jul 18 08:18:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: plotter Message-ID: There is a product called "Cyanopoxy" that is like a two-part "super glue" that can bond slippery plastics like delrin and molded nylon that should work. It is fairly expensive, though. I haven't used it myself, but I've read about it in the model railroad hobby press. -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 5:51 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: plotter I've not found anything that will reliably stick to the plastic for said pinion. 2-pack epoxy resin adhesives (Araldite, etc) certainly don't. And no common plastic solvent disolves that plastic either. -tony From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jul 18 08:34:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: Can anyone id these HP ICs? In-Reply-To: References: <20030716170001.19713.80431.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030718092956.0f9f3bf0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Stan, Thanks for the info. Any idea whey the fancy construction? I've dealt with ECL before but never seen anything like this. BTW I'm made copies of that memory board manual for you. It's packed and ready to ship. I'll try to drop it off at the post office today. Joe At 08:21 PM 7/17/03 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Joe, > >The 05370-60022 part number IDs this as the Arming Board from the HP 5370A/B >counter. The 1820-0753 is an ECL dual 3-input gate, the 1820-1999 is a >multiplexer, and the 1820-2000 is a D flip-flop. These are all ECL IC's, and >on each of them the two end pins are connected to the substrate and tied to >the -5.2 V bus. These two pins act as both power input and heat sinks for >the chip. > >Stan > >Message: 3 >Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:54:54 >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >From: Joe >Subject: Re: Can anyone id these HP ICs? (Joe) >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Bingo! You're right. It's part number is 05370-60022. I had tried to >look up that number but all I found was a scanner with the same PN. Do you >have a service manual for this? If so, can you tell me what these parts >are? PNs 1820-0753, 1820-2000 and 1820-1999. > > Joe > >At 10:55 AM 7/15/03 -0700, you wrote: >>Hi Joe, >> >>Your board looks like one of the interpolator cards from an HP 5370A >Universal Time Interval Counter. Do you see an "05370-6xxxx" part number on >the board anywhere? >> >> >>Message: 14 >>Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:52:26 >>To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>From: Joe >>Subject: Re: Can anyone id these HP ICs? >>Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >> >>Hi Ed, >> >> I posted a picture at >>. >>I unplugged the two ICs in the top RH corner and turned them over so that >>you can see the bottom and side of the ICs and the heat sink that the IC >>normally sits on. There is a depression in the bottom of the IC case and a >>rasied pad on the heatsink that fits into the depression. I've never seen >>anything like this before! Note the delay line (?) on the LH side of the >>card. Sorry I couldn't get a better picture. This is as close as I could >>get with my camera. >> >> Joe > >--__--__-- From teoz at neo.rr.com Fri Jul 18 08:36:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... References: <200307180233.TAA09380@floodgap.com> <007201c34d2b$8b853040$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <000d01c34d30$e3b70fe0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> It will make g4 machines dirt cheap as the herd sells them off to buy the G5. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 8:52 AM Subject: Re: Future uncollectable computers... > > There is one microcomputer I would love to have. The Power Mac G5. > > Can you convince the rest of us? Does OS/X render all the earlier > Macs obsolete? Why would somebody need a G5? > > John A. From cb at mythtech.net Fri Jul 18 08:57:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... Message-ID: >and a good excuse to dump the dual G4 >I already own. ;-) Your excuse can be that you gave it to me :-) -chris From cb at mythtech.net Fri Jul 18 09:00:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... Message-ID: >It will make g4 machines dirt cheap as the herd sells them off to buy the >G5. And I'm hoping it will shove the price of used early iMacs even lower. Those things make GREAT office workstations. -chris From allain at panix.com Fri Jul 18 09:36:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... References: <200307180233.TAA09380@floodgap.com> <007201c34d2b$8b853040$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <000d01c34d30$e3b70fe0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <009a01c34d39$31dc4660$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > It will make g4 machines dirt cheap as > ** the herd ** > sells them off... Wasn't it Apple themselves that made the "Lemmings" commercial featuring people marching off a cliff in unison? Things change... Oh Well. I like to think that I think for myself and so far nobody has made (much) of a case for the G5. John A. From teoz at neo.rr.com Fri Jul 18 10:09:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... References: <200307180233.TAA09380@floodgap.com> <007201c34d2b$8b853040$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <000d01c34d30$e3b70fe0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> <009a01c34d39$31dc4660$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <001c01c34d3d$cca958a0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> If your a current mac user the g5 WILL be alot faster then what you have, if your an Intel user I dont see a rush to buy anything made by apple. If your a unix geek you might want a G5 just to say you own one and make fellow geeks unworthy of your presence. The funny thing is mac users who laugh at PC guys upgrading their hardware every year are now doing the same thing, except its alot more costly for them buying complete new machines while PC users just chuck the motherboard/ram/video card in their old rig. This upgrade cycle of hardware will eventually kill the mac market because only the very rich can keep up. What percentage of mac owners are using OSX? What percentage will upgrade to a current OSX running machine anytime soon? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 10:30 AM Subject: Re: Future uncollectable computers... > > It will make g4 machines dirt cheap as > > ** the herd ** > > sells them off... > > Wasn't it Apple themselves that made the "Lemmings" > commercial featuring people marching off a cliff in unison? > Things change... Oh Well. > I like to think that I think for myself and so far nobody > has made (much) of a case for the G5. > > John A. From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jul 18 10:15:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: <009a01c34d39$31dc4660$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <200307180233.TAA09380@floodgap.com> <007201c34d2b$8b853040$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <000d01c34d30$e3b70fe0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> <009a01c34d39$31dc4660$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: >I like to think that I think for myself and so far nobody >has made (much) of a case for the G5. > >John A. For those of us with the very early G4's and older, a G5 would be an awsome upgrade. Like I mentioned in a previous post, I have one of the original G4/450's, it's almost 4 years old, and it's starting to feel a bit slow. I mainly have speed problems in Adobe Photoshop, Adobe InDesign, and when compiling something. Actually I wouldn't mind speeding up mailbox operations in Eudora either (the OS X version is a lot slower than the old classic version I was using). On the G5, the combination of Hypertransport, faster RAM (PC3200 DDR vs. PC100 SDRAM), AGP 8x vs. AGP 2x, SATA vs. ATA66, USB 2.0 vs. USB 1.1, a 4x DVD-R/W drive, and lastly a significantly faster processor (or two significantly processors) make for a very good case for me upgrading. However, I'll be limping along with my G4/450 for probably at least another year. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dundas at caltech.edu Fri Jul 18 10:47:00 2003 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: Fujitsu (Fuji) Eagle manuals In-Reply-To: <200307172306.h6HN6k4q014407@spies.com> Message-ID: Al, >> What I didn't see was if the manuals were ever scanned and made >>available/on-line. > >www.spies.com/aek/pdf/fujitsu/B03P-4655-0001A_2351_Dec84.pdf Once again, you're right on top of things! Thanks so much. John From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Fri Jul 18 10:53:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: <001c01c34d3d$cca958a0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <006801c34d44$17fbd200$947ba8c0@p933> > If your a current mac user the g5 WILL be alot faster then what you have, >if your an Intel user I dont see a rush to buy anything made by apple. If > your a unix geek you might want a G5 just to say you own one and make > fellow geeks unworthy of your presence. > The funny thing is mac users who laugh at PC guys upgrading their hardware > every year are now doing the same thing, except its alot more costly for > them buying complete new machines while PC users just chuck the > motherboard/ram/video card in their old rig. This upgrade cycle of > hardware will eventually kill the mac market because only the very rich > can keep up. What percentage of mac owners are using OSX? What percentage > will upgrade to a current OSX running machine anytime soon? There was an article in the San Jose Monkey News yesterday about this very thing. It seems that all of the Apple commercials featuring people who have switched (most of whom seem unqualified to monitor their own shoelaces) have had no impact on their market share. It has stayed virtually unchanged. The only think keeping the company alive is that the pool of Apple users spends more per capita then the pool of PC users. This is just my opinion, but that's not a sustainable business model. . . Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 10:30 AM Subject: Re: Future uncollectable computers... > > It will make g4 machines dirt cheap as > > ** the herd ** > > sells them off... > > Wasn't it Apple themselves that made the "Lemmings" > commercial featuring people marching off a cliff in unison? > Things change... Oh Well. > I like to think that I think for myself and so far nobody > has made (much) of a case for the G5. > > John A. From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jul 18 11:24:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: 8-inch disk drives In-Reply-To: <20030718065644.6712.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030718065644.6712.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030718091412.P90589@newshell.lmi.net> > > On Tue, 15 Jul 2003, Jo Cooley wrote: > > > Hi, > > > I'm new to the list and am currently trying to find a solution to > > > transfering data/software from 8-inch disks to a pc. > > > We have a working minc-II with two floppy drives... > > > One suggestion was to get an old 8-inch floppy drive and hook it > > > directly to the pc... > --- Fred Cisin wrote: > > DONE. > > the 1.2M controller in the PC will operate MOST (those wishing to list > > obscure exceptions,...) 8" "industry standard" drives, probably including > > ones borrowed from the minc. On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Umm... Fred, what you may not know is that a MINC-11 comes with an RX02 > floppy drive - definitely not "industry standard" (unless your industry > is DEC ;-) You are right, I did NOT know that the Minc used RX02. That was why I had said "probably". But I was mostly responding to the "all I have to do is get a drive connected", and trying to get across the concept that connecting the drive was trivial, and that it was NOT a matter of a simple device driver, but writing a file system handler. > Personally, I'd go with the ASCII console as the easiest path. I completely agree, particularly since he already has that connected and working. From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jul 18 11:27:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: OT-- need plans for a wireless switch In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030718081127.016f12a0@mail.bedlambells.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030718081127.016f12a0@mail.bedlambells.com> Message-ID: <20030718092020.S90589@newshell.lmi.net> On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, Mark Firestone wrote: > I always wondered how they hooked up wiring to things that rotate, like > helicopter blades. With brushes? by periodically running it in reverse to untwist the wires? > >I'm trying to put a push-to-talk switch on the steering wheel of my > >car so I can key the 2-meter ham radio while keeping both hands > >on the wheel. I've got a little boom mic and have built an interface > >box, but how to mount the switch has me stumped. disconnect the horn and use its button From cb at mythtech.net Fri Jul 18 11:42:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: OT-- need plans for a wireless switch Message-ID: >disconnect the horn and use its button Make sure you put a switch to toggle between horn and ham radio. I don't know about other states, but you can't pass vehicle inspections in NJ without a working horn. -chris From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Fri Jul 18 11:53:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: OT-- need plans for a wireless switch Message-ID: <200307181648.JAA28932@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Fred Cisin" > >On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, Mark Firestone wrote: >> I always wondered how they hooked up wiring to things that rotate, like >> helicopter blades. With brushes? > >by periodically running it in reverse to untwist the wires? Hi I'm not sure that they run wires to the blades of helicopers. If it is current caring wire, they most often use brushes. For signal lines and low power, rotory tansformers are common. For autos, it is either a wire or brushes. This depends on the manufactures choice. Both have relaibility issues. Dwight > >> >I'm trying to put a push-to-talk switch on the steering wheel of my >> >car so I can key the 2-meter ham radio while keeping both hands >> >on the wheel. I've got a little boom mic and have built an interface >> >box, but how to mount the switch has me stumped. > >disconnect the horn and use its button From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jul 18 11:56:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: OT-- need plans for a wireless switch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, chris wrote: > > disconnect the horn and use its button > > Make sure you put a switch to toggle between horn and ham radio. I don't > know about other states, but you can't pass vehicle inspections in NJ > without a working horn. Use the airbag wires instead? ;) -Toth From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Fri Jul 18 11:59:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: OT-- need plans for a wireless switch In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030718125319.00a5ba80@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> > you can't pass vehicle inspections in NJ without a working horn. Fred is in California. They didn't use to have vehicle safety inspections. Don't know about the last eight years though. They're more worried about their smog inspections. At 12:38 PM 7/18/03 -0400, you wrote: > >disconnect the horn and use its button > >Make sure you put a switch to toggle between horn and ham radio. I don't >know about other states, but you can't pass vehicle inspections in NJ >without a working horn. > >-chris > From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jul 18 12:31:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: OT-- need plans for a wireless switch In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030718125319.00a5ba80@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030718125319.00a5ba80@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <20030718101056.A90589@newshell.lmi.net> > > >disconnect the horn and use its button > >Make sure you put a switch to toggle between horn and ham radio. I don't > >know about other states, but you can't pass vehicle inspections in NJ > >without a working horn. On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, Mail List wrote: > Fred is in California. They didn't use to have vehicle safety inspections. > Don't know about the last eight years though. They're more worried > about their smog inspections. Oh boy are they! They don't trust the inspectors, so the test machine must be connected directly to the state network with a dedicated line. D'ya know how to test the emissions of a VW converted to electric? A friend of mine could not satisfy the DMV until he welded a piece of pipe to the underside for the "tailpipe test" (aka "rectal probe") Thirty some years ago, while I was working at GSFC, I lived in Maryland. I assembled a VW from scrap parts, but I made the serious mistake of offending the inspector (in those days, Maryland had a one-time inspection at transfer). He declared that my horn "wasn't loud enough". I had a good relationship with "Dollar George"'s wrecking yard, so I RENTED all of the horns that he had for a week (for $1). I put in some relays, two extra batteries (one 6V, one 12V), and filled the trunk and much of the wheel wells with horns. At the "reinspection after repairs", the inspector put his head down next to the left front fender and told me to honk the horn, .... It was loud enough. BTW, they had no objection to the horn button being on the dash, instead of the twisty wire in the steering column that comes out of the steering gearbox. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cb at mythtech.net Fri Jul 18 12:55:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: OT-- need plans for a wireless switch Message-ID: >D'ya know how to test the emissions of a VW converted to electric? >A friend of mine could not satisfy the DMV until he welded a piece of pipe >to the underside for the "tailpipe test" (aka "rectal probe") I had a similar problem with a convertable car. They failed me because I didn't have a roof on my car. Their claim was, they couldn't inspect the rear windows to make sure they weren't broken. I actually had to look up the laws and then bring the appropriate title back to the station with me to show that their is no requirement for having a roof on your car in NJ (you only need to have a windshield). Of course, I could have just put the roof back on my car, but I was much happier proving the idiots wrong. -chris From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jul 18 13:03:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: <001c01c34d3d$cca958a0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> References: <200307180233.TAA09380@floodgap.com> <007201c34d2b$8b853040$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <000d01c34d30$e3b70fe0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> <009a01c34d39$31dc4660$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <001c01c34d3d$cca958a0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: >The funny thing is mac users who laugh at PC guys upgrading their hardware >every year are now doing the same thing, except its alot more costly for >them buying complete new machines while PC users just chuck the >motherboard/ram/video card in their old rig. This upgrade cycle of hardware >will eventually kill the mac market because only the very rich can keep up. >What percentage of mac owners are using OSX? What percentage will upgrade to >a current OSX running machine anytime soon? I don't think this is a valid point. The *average* PC user doesn't do incremental Upgrades, just like the average Mac user doesn't. Granted you can't replace the Motherboard on your Mac (at least not easily). However you can replace anything else. Also, how often does the *average* person replace their system? Last I checked it's every 3+ years. It's the same for the OS. You have to remember that computer companies make their money from average user, not from the PC users that build their own systems and are in a constant upgrade cycle. What is a problem with the current G5 offerings, is that the prices are all whacked out. Normally the sweet spot is the midrange system. With the G5's the sweet spot is the high-end. Also, they really need to shave $200-400 off the price of the systems. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jforbes2 at mindspring.com Fri Jul 18 13:07:01 2003 From: jforbes2 at mindspring.com (J Forbes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... Message-ID: <3F183651.8060203@mindspring.com> > One model that I used to support and I'd like to find would be the IBM Aptiva > stealth model they made back in 1998/1999. I thought it was a neat idea to > put the drives in a seperate enclosure below the monitor. 1996/97 maybe? Cluttering up my office/lab/computer room is an Aptiva 166mhz machine, with the neat black tower and black monitor with the drive pod below it. It's a non-upgradeable system, a gift to one of my kids from a grandparent, and has been replaced with a more modern generic pc. You should be able to find on on epay if you're patient. I want to save this one for the kid when he gets older he might want to have his first computer, with it's antique windows 95, cd rom drive (with no writing or dvd reading capability), and miniscule 2.5gb hard drive. At least it's almost stackable...the roundy styling had not set in yet. I have no idea what my dad will do with his Emac when it gets slow, perhaps it could turn into art, hang two of them on the wall (screen facing the wall) next to each other? -- Jim Visit the Selectric Typewriter Museum! http://www.mindspring.com/~jforbes2 From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Jul 18 13:24:00 2003 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... Message-ID: <38.3b58fbdd.2c499453@aol.com> In a message dated 7/18/2003 2:07:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jforbes2@mindspring.com writes: > >One model that I used to support and I'd like to find would be the IBM > Aptiva > >stealth model they made back in 1998/1999. I thought it was a neat idea to > >put the drives in a seperate enclosure below the monitor. > > 1996/97 maybe? Cluttering up my office/lab/computer room is an Aptiva > 166mhz machine, with the neat black tower and black monitor with the > drive pod below it. It's a non-upgradeable system, a gift to one of my > kids from a grandparent, and has been replaced with a more modern > generic pc. You should be able to find on on epay if you're patient. I > want to save this one for the kid when he gets older he might want to > have his first computer, with it's antique windows 95, cd rom drive > (with no writing or dvd reading capability), and miniscule 2.5gb hard drive. > Yups, that sounds like it. 2159-Sxx series. Sound like yours is the first generation model with that cursed MWAVE modem. There was 2159-S80 and S90 models which were MMX, no MWAVE and slightly redesigned and much better IMO. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Jul 18 13:51:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000a01c34d5d$0fd43a90$5b01a8c0@athlon> > It does worry me that there's not a single microcomputer system made > today that I actually want to own.... But that just leaves space for the stuff you *do* want :-) > More of a problem is that modern machines are plain > unrepairable. Spares > are unavailable even now (when the machine is in production > -- you try > getting an ASIC for an Imac or similar...), so %deity knows > what it'll be This has been true for quite a while now and it's only going to get worse. 10 years ago DEC used its own fab to churn out custom chips (but at least docs were available for these). Now there are plenty of custom fabs that will knock out as asic cheaply if you need them in large quantities. Everyone else uses an fpga. I cannot see this trend changing: the economics will dictate this. > like in 10 years time. Technical manuals don't exist. The chances of > being able to keep these machines running is minimal :-( The chances probably would not be much better even with a technical manual! Reworking those smt devices is a skill I've not yet needed to acquire (but, hey, how hard can it be!) but a 768 ball(pin?) BGA is probably something that needs a specialist (i.e. expensive) workstation (and even then the success rate seems not to be that high). But as long as there is plenty of old stuff kicking around, I'm not too bothered about the modern stuff. I suppose if my Ultra 5 goes belly up, I'll become more bothered! Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Fri Jul 18 13:53:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: OT-- need plans for a wireless switch In-Reply-To: <20030718101056.A90589@newshell.lmi.net> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030718125319.00a5ba80@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030718125319.00a5ba80@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030718142638.08d40700@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Hi Fred, Yes, those smog inspections are a real PITA. I got off easier than some though. My pick up truck that I had back then, being a 3/4 ton, and my being in San Diego at the time ( where the smog requirements weren't as stringent as up in the LA area ) made me only have to go through it once. Then, after the truck was no more and I only rode a motorcycle, I didn't have to worry about it with that either. Back here on the east coast these safety inspections are a PITA. At least it's now just an annual requirement. It used to be every 6 months. Got a rejection sticker in the window of a truck right now, that is in safer running condition that the truck I drove in CA. Failed me because the heater/defroster blower went out. But that truly does need to get changed. Trying to drive with fogged up windows would be dangerous. But finding the time is one of the problems, also the heat and humidity outside right now makes one want to stay inside when possible. Maybe get to it in the fall. I got rejected before for the horn not being loud enough too. My battery was just about dead and I had to jump start it to get it into the inspection bay, so it was not as loud as it would have been were my battery up to full charge and voltage. One thing they got going around here is the common practice of rejecting you for headlights being out of alignment. I had my headlights adjusted by a shop that was doing some steering gear work, and then drove over to the inspection station right afterwards, only to get rejected for headlight alignment. I paid them the blood money to readjust just to get through the inspection. Then, that vehicle was only driven 250 miles the next year. Not much bouncing around to cause any change. But, the next inspection, they rejected it for headlight alignment again. I'd seen something about that in the local news, though in reference to a different inspection station. I'd also seen them reject vehicle after vehicle for headlight alignment while I was waiting in line for my inspection. I had a conversation with the state police, who monitor and license these inspection stations about that. They were considering taking one in that they knew was correct to see if they could catch them at it. Best Regards At 10:26 AM 7/18/03 -0700, you wrote: > > > >disconnect the horn and use its button > > >Make sure you put a switch to toggle between horn and ham radio. I don't > > >know about other states, but you can't pass vehicle inspections in NJ > > >without a working horn. > >On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, Mail List wrote: > > Fred is in California. They didn't use to have vehicle safety inspections. > > Don't know about the last eight years though. They're more worried > > about their smog inspections. > >Oh boy are they! They don't trust the inspectors, so the test machine >must be connected directly to the state network with a dedicated line. >D'ya know how to test the emissions of a VW converted to electric? >A friend of mine could not satisfy the DMV until he welded a piece of pipe >to the underside for the "tailpipe test" (aka "rectal probe") > > >Thirty some years ago, while I was working at GSFC, I lived in Maryland. >I assembled a VW from scrap parts, but I made the serious mistake of >offending the inspector (in those days, Maryland had a one-time inspection >at transfer). He declared that my horn "wasn't loud enough". I had a >good relationship with "Dollar George"'s wrecking yard, so I RENTED all of >the horns that he had for a week (for $1). > >I put in some relays, two extra batteries (one 6V, one 12V), and filled >the trunk and much of the wheel wells with horns. At the "reinspection >after repairs", the inspector put his head down next to the left front >fender and told me to honk the horn, .... It was loud enough. > > >BTW, they had no objection to the horn button being on the dash, instead >of the twisty wire in the steering column that comes out of the steering >gearbox. > >-- >Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jul 18 14:27:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: <3F183651.8060203@mindspring.com> References: <3F183651.8060203@mindspring.com> Message-ID: >One model that I used to support and I'd like to find would be the IBM Aptiva stealth model they made back in 1998/1999. I thought it was a neat idea to put the drives in a seperate enclosure below the monitor. If you're talking about the model I think you are, the enclosure would need to go on top of the monitor. It's a pretty cool system. I rescued one from the trash about a year ago. I couldn't bare to see it destroyed. I finally ended up donating it to a school a few months ago. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From bshannon at tiac.net Fri Jul 18 16:31:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: Data Systems Design DSD-880 8" floppy and hard drive? References: <3.0.6.16.20030717205309.3daf3460@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3F186664.4080707@tiac.net> Yep, very common, and once popular 3rd party storage for DEC machines. I think I have schematics for the controller around here, an 8X300 based machine I think. Joe wrote: > Anybody know anything about a DSD-880 8" floppy and hard drive unit made >by Data Systems Design? (Black rack mount box about 6" high and 28" deep.) >I found several of them today. I'm pretty certain that they came off of a >system tester or circuit board tester based on a DEC computer. The units >had a Shugart 800-1 8" SSDD floppy drive and a Quantum Q2040 8" hard drive >in them and a INTERESTING looking front panel that said "Hyper Diagnostics" >or something like that. > > I bought a HUGE lot of 8" floppy disks from the same place. They almost >certainly came from the same systems. The disks contained RT-11 and RSX. I >found that some of the disks had the driver and diagnostics for the >DSD-880. Also found copies of distribution disks for RT-11 and RSX in the >same pile. > > Joe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 18 17:33:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: HP Integral In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030717214255.48ff5cae@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Jul 17, 3 09:42:55 pm Message-ID: > >> Alas much of it (C development stuff, etc) is still HP copyright and > >> therefroe can't be distributed. > > > >How close is it to being considered abandonware by HP? > > > I know for a fact that HP dropped support for these many years ago and > literally threw out their remaining software/hardware/manuals/testers. I > think we can safely say that they've abandoned it. THis does _not_ mean it's no longer copyrighted, and I respect the fact that the owner of the site mentioned earlier doesn't distribute such stuff. Some companies (including I believe HP on one occasion) have been unpleasant about such things. > > BTW I have HP-IL cards, serial port cards, a combined serial port and > memory card, Technical BASIC in ROM and even a Diagnostics ROM for the IPC. I asusme the diagnostic ROM is a cartridge that fits in place of the OS ROM cartridge. There's a 6 pin header on the Logic A (CPU + memory) PCB that appears to be for connecting to a signature analyser which I assume is used with this. There's also that 4 way DIP shunt in the 16 pin socket that can be moved to disable the MMU and off-board memory (IIRC), maybe that's used for diagnostics. > I think I have all or nearly all of the docs, software and manuals that Was there ever a (hardware) technical reference manual? > they ever produced for it. And yes, the Tech BASIC ROM is made of standard > parts. Is this Tech BASIC ROM a plug-in card that goes into one of the expansion slots, or a daughterboard in the OS cartridge, or what? -tony From vance at neurotica.com Fri Jul 18 17:37:24 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: <007201c34d2b$8b853040$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, John Allain wrote: > > There is one microcomputer I would love to have. The Power Mac G5. > > Can you convince the rest of us? Does OS/X render all the earlier Macs > obsolete? Why would somebody need a G5? I *do not* use MacOS classic. I find it terribly annoying. I have earlier Macs, but I run NetBSD on them. They do it rather well. I *like* OSX, though. Works well. Never had trouble with it. Does everything I expect of it the way I expect of it, with a couple of minor exceptions (like case insensitivity -- but that's more of a filesystem issue). But you could use OSX with a G3 just as easily. With the G5, it's not a question of *need*. It's a question of *want*. Peace... Sridhar From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 18 17:41:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: from "vance@neurotica.com" at Jul 17, 3 10:00:23 pm Message-ID: > If it were built from TTL IC's, would it still be a microcomputer? > IMHO No. It would be a minicomputer. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 18 17:43:51 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: <000a01c34d5d$0fd43a90$5b01a8c0@athlon> from "Antonio Carlini" at Jul 18, 3 07:47:38 pm Message-ID: > > It does worry me that there's not a single microcomputer system made > > today that I actually want to own.... > > But that just leaves space for the stuff you *do* want :-) I ran out of space about 10 years ago... > > > More of a problem is that modern machines are plain > > unrepairable. Spares > > are unavailable even now (when the machine is in production > > -- you try > > getting an ASIC for an Imac or similar...), so %deity knows > > what it'll be > > This has been true for quite a while now and it's only going to Is it any wonder I don't own a computer less than 10 years old.... > > like in 10 years time. Technical manuals don't exist. The chances of > > being able to keep these machines running is minimal :-( > > The chances probably would not be much better even with a technical But they might be slighlty better. A tech manual can't do any harm... > manual! Reworking those smt devices is a skill I've not yet needed > to acquire (but, hey, how hard can it be!) but a 768 ball(pin?) BGA > is probably something that needs a specialist (i.e. expensive) > workstation (and even then the success rate seems not to be In 10 years time hackers might be able to do this at home. They certainly won't be able to do it if the chip (or the specs of said chip) are unavailable. -tony From swperk at earthlink.net Fri Jul 18 18:00:01 2003 From: swperk at earthlink.net (Stan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: Can anyone id these HP ICs? In-Reply-To: <20030718170001.39028.17511.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: Hi Joe, The only reason that I can come up with for HP's construction techniques is that their IC's were made during the heyday of HP's own IC division. They overbuilt everything, probably because of reliability concerns. Other people certainly will know more about this than I do, but I think that HP was one of the earliest developers/fabricators of ECL. Thanks in advance for the manual! Regards, Stan Hi Stan, Thanks for the info. Any idea whey the fancy construction? I've dealt with ECL before but never seen anything like this. BTW I'm made copies of that memory board manual for you. It's packed and ready to ship. I'll try to drop it off at the post office today. Joe At 08:21 PM 7/17/03 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Joe, > >The 05370-60022 part number IDs this as the Arming Board from the HP 5370A/B >counter. The 1820-0753 is an ECL dual 3-input gate, the 1820-1999 is a >multiplexer, and the 1820-2000 is a D flip-flop. These are all ECL IC's, and >on each of them the two end pins are connected to the substrate and tied to >the -5.2 V bus. These two pins act as both power input and heat sinks for >the chip. > >Stan > >Message: 3 >Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:54:54 >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >From: Joe >Subject: Re: Can anyone id these HP ICs? (Joe) >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Bingo! You're right. It's part number is 05370-60022. I had tried to >look up that number but all I found was a scanner with the same PN. Do you >have a service manual for this? If so, can you tell me what these parts >are? PNs 1820-0753, 1820-2000 and 1820-1999. > > Joe > >At 10:55 AM 7/15/03 -0700, you wrote: >>Hi Joe, >> >>Your board looks like one of the interpolator cards from an HP 5370A >Universal Time Interval Counter. Do you see an "05370-6xxxx" part number on >the board anywhere? >> >> >>Message: 14 >>Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:52:26 >>To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>From: Joe >>Subject: Re: Can anyone id these HP ICs? >>Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >> >>Hi Ed, >> >> I posted a picture at >>. >>I unplugged the two ICs in the top RH corner and turned them over so that >>you can see the bottom and side of the ICs and the heat sink that the IC >>normally sits on. There is a depression in the bottom of the IC case and a >>rasied pad on the heatsink that fits into the depression. I've never seen >>anything like this before! Note the delay line (?) on the LH side of the >>card. Sorry I couldn't get a better picture. This is as close as I could >>get with my camera. >> >> Joe > >-- __--__-- --__--__-- From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jul 18 18:20:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: plotter In-Reply-To: "Feldman, Robert" "RE: plotter" (Jul 18, 7:14) References: Message-ID: <10307190014.ZM12496@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 18, 7:14, Feldman, Robert wrote: > There is a product called "Cyanopoxy" that is like a two-part "super glue" that can bond slippery plastics like delrin and molded nylon that should work. It is fairly expensive, though. I haven't used it myself, but I've read about it in the model railroad hobby press. There's a type of Loctite that does as well -- even sticks polythene. I can't remember the number, thugh. Unfortunately it costs something like UKP 35 for a tiny bottle (well, two bottles, actually, because it comes with an activator). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rdd at rddavis.org Fri Jul 18 18:57:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:53 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: <006801c34d44$17fbd200$947ba8c0@p933> References: <001c01c34d3d$cca958a0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> <006801c34d44$17fbd200$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: <20030718235632.GG88881@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Erik S. Klein, from writings of Fri, Jul 18, 2003 at 08:48:52AM -0700: > who have switched (most of whom seem unqualified to monitor their own > shoelaces) have had no impact on their market share. It has stayed > virtually unchanged. The only think keeping the company alive is that > the pool of Apple users spends more per capita then the pool of PC > users. > > This is just my opinion, but that's not a sustainable business model. . Why not? Who says that businesses have to expand? All of this foolishness about an economy based on constant growth (greed) is ruining this nation, our quality of life, and the world. The problem is the businesses that can't survive without constant growth, they're the poorly run ones. More growth needs more people (more overpopulation), more houses, more highways, more schools, etc., which all, in turn, require more growing companies and sources or goverment revenue to keep the lunacy growing. A dangerous cycle. Stable companies and a stable zero-growth based economy would surely be a better business model, but one can't expect most monkey-brained biz'droids, politicians, or most people, whose minds are rotting from immersion in dogma and propaganda, to understand something so sensible and simple. Of course, I'm not saying that Apple isn't making any big mistakes... -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jrice54 at charter.net Fri Jul 18 19:12:01 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: Plotter Message-ID: <3F188D5E.2030600@charter.net> I've used both products. In my previous life, I was an industrial control contractor in food packaging plants. We used the Loctite stuff. to stick polyurethane conveyor belts together as in a spliced loop. These belts ran at 2-300 ft per minute in a wet, oily, washdown environment (salad oil bottling plant) for months without a break. It was extremely expensive and the supply room checked it out and in. The clerk used to chase me down when I forgot to return the splice kit. The "cyanopoxy" stuff was used to build up delrin and teflon conveyor gudes when they wore through, until new ones could be machined out of block stock. I know it would stick a teflon gear together and would probably be stronger than the original gear. Just be careful and don't stick your fingers to the gear. You will have to remove the skin with a single edge razor blade...don't ask, trust me on this one. I can't remember how much it costs, but I'm sure it wasn't cheap. James >There is a product called "Cyanopoxy" that is like a two-part "super > > >glue" that can bond slippery plastics like delrin and molded nylon that >should work. It is fairly expensive, though. I haven't used it myself, >but I've read about it in the model railroad hobby press. > >There's a type of Loctite that does as well -- even sticks polythene. > I can't remember the number, thugh. Unfortunately it costs something >like UKP 35 for a tiny bottle (well, two bottles, actually, because it >comes with an activator). > -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From kenziem at sympatico.ca Fri Jul 18 21:34:01 2003 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: Drive specs for Fujitsu m2682TAU Message-ID: <200307182229.06497.kenziem@sympatico.ca> it s at 350 meg drive, my copy of the hardware bible is bit too old, and all I get from google is places wanting to sell them. Does anyone have the CHS for this drive? From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Fri Jul 18 23:06:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Mod I Video Display Message-ID: <00b801c34daa$96636020$947ba8c0@p933> I've got a TRS-80 Mod 1 with a bad display. There is a horizontal scan line in the center of the screen but no vertical sweep. Is anyone familiar enough with these displays to give me repair hints? Failing that, does anyone have a working one lying around that they'd part with? Thanks! Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jul 18 23:21:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Mod I Video Display In-Reply-To: <00b801c34daa$96636020$947ba8c0@p933> References: <00b801c34daa$96636020$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: <20030718211600.V95110@newshell.lmi.net> On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, Erik S. Klein wrote: > I've got a TRS-80 Mod 1 with a bad display. There is a horizontal scan > line in the center of the screen but no vertical sweep. > Is anyone familiar enough with these displays to give me repair hints? > Failing that, does anyone have a working one lying around that they'd > part with? Don't have any, any more, but are you aware that you can connect an ordinary composite video monitor, instead? From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Fri Jul 18 23:39:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Mod I Video Display In-Reply-To: <20030718211600.V95110@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <00bd01c34daf$39dd5d10$947ba8c0@p933> > Don't have any, any more, but are you aware that you can connect an > ordinary composite video monitor, instead? Unfortunately all of my composite video is in storage with my Apple, Atari, Commodore and other systems. All I've got left at the house, until I finally move, is a few new machines and a few S-100 systems I held back lest the movers trash them. I may go on a local hunt this weekend, but I doubt I'd find anything worth my time. Wouldn't I have to make a cable for composite to the 5 pin on the RS or is there a composite out port I've missed? Thanks! Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From donm at cts.com Sat Jul 19 00:14:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: Drive specs for Fujitsu m2682TAU In-Reply-To: <200307182229.06497.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, Mike wrote: > it s at 350 meg drive, my copy of the hardware bible is bit too old, and all > I get from google is places wanting to sell them. > > Does anyone have the CHS for this drive? The Pocket PCRef says that it is: C 2378 H 4 S 24-90 Hope that helps. - don From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Jul 19 04:47:01 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... References: <001c01c34d3d$cca958a0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> <006801c34d44$17fbd200$947ba8c0@p933> <20030718235632.GG88881@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <002201c34dda$09cdd700$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Zero groath economy means young people would have to wait for an employee to die or retire to get a job. Wages would be the same (except a slight increase for inflation) since there is no groath. New industries cant come up unless and old established one dies. Maybe what you meant to say was a slow long term groath instead of 100% increase in sales veery year. ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 7:56 PM Subject: Re: Future uncollectable computers... > Quothe Erik S. Klein, from writings of Fri, Jul 18, 2003 at 08:48:52AM -0700: > > who have switched (most of whom seem unqualified to monitor their own > > shoelaces) have had no impact on their market share. It has stayed > > virtually unchanged. The only think keeping the company alive is that > > the pool of Apple users spends more per capita then the pool of PC > > users. > > > > This is just my opinion, but that's not a sustainable business model. . > > Why not? Who says that businesses have to expand? All of this > foolishness about an economy based on constant growth (greed) is > ruining this nation, our quality of life, and the world. The problem > is the businesses that can't survive without constant growth, they're > the poorly run ones. More growth needs more people (more > overpopulation), more houses, more highways, more schools, etc., which > all, in turn, require more growing companies and sources or goverment > revenue to keep the lunacy growing. A dangerous cycle. Stable > companies and a stable zero-growth based economy would surely be a > better business model, but one can't expect most monkey-brained > biz'droids, politicians, or most people, whose minds are rotting from > immersion in dogma and propaganda, to understand something so sensible > and simple. > > Of course, I'm not saying that Apple isn't making any big mistakes... > > -- > Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From vance at neurotica.com Sat Jul 19 06:17:01 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: <002201c34dda$09cdd700$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Jul 2003, TeoZ wrote: > Zero groath economy means young people would have to wait for an > employee to die or retire to get a job. Wages would be the same (except > a slight increase for inflation) since there is no groath. New > industries cant come up unless and old established one dies. Not necessarily. That only applies if you don't have ZPG, which is a pretty good condition in and of itself in many cases. Peace... Sridhar From at258 at osfn.org Sat Jul 19 10:11:00 2003 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: OT-- need plans for a wireless switch In-Reply-To: <20030718101056.A90589@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: MGA's all had the horn on the dash. Amazing the number of stupid inspectors that couldn't find it satring them in the face. On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, Fred Cisin wrote: > > > >disconnect the horn and use its button > > >Make sure you put a switch to toggle between horn and ham radio. I don't > > >know about other states, but you can't pass vehicle inspections in NJ > > >without a working horn. > > On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, Mail List wrote: > > Fred is in California. They didn't use to have vehicle safety inspections. > > Don't know about the last eight years though. They're more worried > > about their smog inspections. > > Oh boy are they! They don't trust the inspectors, so the test machine > must be connected directly to the state network with a dedicated line. > D'ya know how to test the emissions of a VW converted to electric? > A friend of mine could not satisfy the DMV until he welded a piece of pipe > to the underside for the "tailpipe test" (aka "rectal probe") > > > Thirty some years ago, while I was working at GSFC, I lived in Maryland. > I assembled a VW from scrap parts, but I made the serious mistake of > offending the inspector (in those days, Maryland had a one-time inspection > at transfer). He declared that my horn "wasn't loud enough". I had a > good relationship with "Dollar George"'s wrecking yard, so I RENTED all of > the horns that he had for a week (for $1). > > I put in some relays, two extra batteries (one 6V, one 12V), and filled > the trunk and much of the wheel wells with horns. At the "reinspection > after repairs", the inspector put his head down next to the left front > fender and told me to honk the horn, .... It was loud enough. > > > BTW, they had no objection to the horn button being on the dash, instead > of the twisty wire in the steering column that comes out of the steering > gearbox. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jul 19 11:22:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Mod I Video Display In-Reply-To: <00bd01c34daf$39dd5d10$947ba8c0@p933> References: <00bd01c34daf$39dd5d10$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: <20030719090449.G1956@newshell.lmi.net> > > ordinary composite video monitor, instead? On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, Erik S. Klein wrote: > Unfortunately all of my composite video is in storage with my Apple, > Atari, Commodore and other systems. > All I've got left at the house, until I finally move, is a few new > machines and a few S-100 systems I held back lest the movers trash them. As a possibly impractical or inconvenient temporary alternative, does your TV have composite in? or composite in of your VCR and then to your TV? Do any of your "new" machines have video IN? Or get one of the cheap USB "video capture" external boxes. Cable the TRS-80 to a video capture unit, and display on the "new" computer's monitor, to let a half gigahertz pentium machine act as a "video server" for the TRS-80. > I may go on a local hunt this weekend, but I doubt I'd find anything > worth my time. > Wouldn't I have to make a cable for composite to the 5 pin on the RS or > is there a composite out port I've missed? You'll need to solder at least two wires to make a cable from 5 pin DIN to composite. (in a pinch, you could take cut up a DIN cable and a composite cable and twist them together). For permanent use, drill a hole in the case and install an RCA jack. I don't remember the pinout, but I think that the video 5 pin DIN had video, ground, and 5V? I don't even remember which of the three side by side 5 pin DINs was the video. IBM saw the OBVIOUS problem inherent in that, and in typical IBM style only had TWO side by side 5 pin DINs on the 5150. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From vp at mcs.drexel.edu Sat Jul 19 12:12:01 2003 From: vp at mcs.drexel.edu (Vassilis Prevelakis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: HP Integral Message-ID: <200307191708.h6JH8Rcv009486@king.mcs.drexel.edu> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote in cctalk-689: > Is this Tech BASIC ROM a plug-in card that goes into one of the expansion > slots, or a daughterboard in the OS cartridge, or what? Its a small board that attaches over the OS daughterboard. **vp From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 19 17:01:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Mod I Video Displayu In-Reply-To: <00b801c34daa$96636020$947ba8c0@p933> from "Erik S. Klein" at Jul 18, 3 09:02:35 pm Message-ID: > I've got a TRS-80 Mod 1 with a bad display. There is a horizontal scan > line in the center of the screen but no vertical sweep. > > > > Is anyone familiar enough with these displays to give me repair hints? I have the service manual for the original (no green filter, controls in a horizontal row at the bottom right) somewhere, and I'll dig it out if you want to get inside. However, a word of warning. This is by far the most unpleasant monitor I've ever worked on. It's a converted RCA portable TV (the conversion consisted of removing the tuners and IF plug-in PCB and fitting a video input PCB in the IF PCB slot). This means that the 110V model is hot chassis -- the video input PCB contains an optoisolator so the computer is not directly connected to the mains. Since you need to work on the vertical deflection circuit, you'll be working on the 'hot' part. If you don't have an isolating transformer then don't even think about working inside this monitor with the power applied! The 230V model is a bit more pleasant. The TV's PSU was strictly 110V only, so it needs a transformer for 230V mains. Radio Shack used a proper double-wound isolating transformer, which means the chassis of the 230V model is isolated from the mains. The video input board on that model is just a transistor buffer stage, no optoisolator. Let me know if you want me to dig out the service manual and talk you through the vertical deflection circuit. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 19 17:04:33 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Mod I Video Display In-Reply-To: <20030719090449.G1956@newshell.lmi.net> from "Fred Cisin" at Jul 19, 3 09:17:50 am Message-ID: > You'll need to solder at least two wires to make a cable from 5 pin DIN to > composite. (in a pinch, you could take cut up a DIN cable and a composite > cable and twist them together). > For permanent use, drill a hole in the case and install an RCA jack. > > I don't remember the pinout, but I think that the video 5 pin DIN had > video, ground, and 5V? Yes, composite video, ground, and 5V from the CPU to the monitor to power the input buffer on the video interface PCB. One thing to be aware of is that on 99% of 5 pin DIN plugs, pin 2 is ground. On this one, pin 2 is not connected. So a normal audio cable (say 5 pin DIN to 4 RCA plugs, which is a common tape recorder lead over here) doesn't work! The pinout (from the TRS-80 TechRef) is : 1 : +5V 2 : N/C 3 : N/C 4 : Composite video 5 : Ground Note that the pins are numbered in the order 1, 4, 2, 5, 3 > I don't even remember which of the three side by side 5 pin DINs was the The middle one! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 19 17:06:03 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: HP Integral In-Reply-To: <200307191708.h6JH8Rcv009486@king.mcs.drexel.edu> from "Vassilis Prevelakis" at Jul 19, 3 01:08:27 pm Message-ID: > ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote in cctalk-689: > > Is this Tech BASIC ROM a plug-in card that goes into one of the expansion > > slots, or a daughterboard in the OS cartridge, or what? > > Its a small board that attaches over the OS daughterboard. It appaers that there are at least 2 versions of the OS ROM board. The one I have has a 2-row header plug near one of the short edges and a similar header socket at the other short edge to connect to the daughterboard. A picture on the well-known web site shows an OS board with a row of SIL pins along one of the long edges (near the holes that take the pins from the Logic A PCB). Which do you have? -tony From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jul 19 18:29:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: Plotter In-Reply-To: James Rice "Re: Plotter" (Jul 18, 19:14) References: <3F188D5E.2030600@charter.net> Message-ID: <10307190950.ZM12816@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 18, 19:14, James Rice wrote: > I've used both products. In my previous life, I was an industrial > control contractor in food packaging plants. We used the Loctite stuff. > to stick polyurethane conveyor belts together as in a spliced loop. There are lots of types of Loctite, though, and the one for polythene and nylon isn't the same as the one for polyurethane. Polyurethane isn't nearly s hard to stick. > >There's a type of Loctite that does as well -- even sticks polythene. > > I can't remember the number, thugh. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From kklusend at fatsinc.com Sat Jul 19 19:02:00 2003 From: kklusend at fatsinc.com (Kelvin Klusendorf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: Anybody on here do anything with the OLD intel IN-xxxx memories Message-ID: Hi Joe, I would be interested in your Intel IN-xxxx memory boards. Thanks, Kelvin Kelvin@synapticbrew.com From ptremewe at bigpond.net.au Sat Jul 19 19:12:00 2003 From: ptremewe at bigpond.net.au (peter tremewen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: Apple Clone Message-ID: <001101c34e53$03170c00$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> I have one of these Plastic cased Apples. One question I do have is what sort of keyboard they use. The keyboard conector on the mother board is wited directly to a nine pin serial socket on the back of the machine. Does it use the standard Apple II keyboard in a special case?? I seem to remember seeing info on how to wire an IBM keyboard to an apple some where. Can this be done for this machine?? Or am I mistaken. In spite of my small collection of Apple II parts I have never really taken much notice of these machines until recently when I have decided to do a "clean out" so advice on how to get this Apple in a more useable state would be apreciated...... Peter T. > Looking at the motherboard it looks like a generic Apple ][+ clone. Clones > based on the same motherboard were sold here (Australia) in XT style cases > like the one you have, smaller plastic desktop cases (floppy drives side by > side) and Apple ][ style cases with external drives. I've had all three > variants over time. I've seens ads for a luggable version with an internal > mono monitor, but I've never found one. From james at jfc.org.uk Sat Jul 19 19:40:00 2003 From: james at jfc.org.uk (James Carter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: what might this isa board do? Message-ID: <1058661359.12512.17.camel@voltaire.home.net> i suppose it could be a plain old memory board, but 1992 seems very late for that (but still classic :-). the faceplate has two stickers, one for the serial number (1074) and the second has "HYPERTEC R9_BC HRAM CL EX SIMM". http://www.jfc.org.uk/misc/card-small.jpg [80 KB] http://www.jfc.org.uk/misc/card.jpg [432 KB] does anyone have any ideas about this card? -- J.F.Carter http://www.jfc.org.uk/ From james at jfc.org.uk Sat Jul 19 19:44:00 2003 From: james at jfc.org.uk (James Carter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: what might this isa board do? Message-ID: <1058661359.12512.17.camel@voltaire.home.net> i suppose it could be a plain old memory board, but 1992 seems very late for that (but still classic :-). the faceplate has two stickers, one for the serial number (1074) and the second has "HYPERTEC R9_BC HRAM CL EX SIMM". http://www.jfc.org.uk/misc/card-small.jpg [80 KB] http://www.jfc.org.uk/misc/card.jpg [432 KB] does anyone have any ideas about this card? -- J.F.Carter http://www.jfc.org.uk/ From ssj152 at charter.net Sat Jul 19 21:29:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: Data Systems Design DSD-880 8" floppy and hard drive? References: <3.0.6.16.20030717205309.3daf3460@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <010a01c34e66$3097a0a0$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 8:53 PM Subject: Data Systems Design DSD-880 8" floppy and hard drive? > Anybody know anything about a DSD-880 8" floppy and hard drive unit made > by Data Systems Design? (Black rack mount box about 6" high and 28" deep.) > I found several of them today. I'm pretty certain that they came off of a > system tester or circuit board tester based on a DEC computer. The units > had a Shugart 800-1 8" SSDD floppy drive and a Quantum Q2040 8" hard drive > in them and a INTERESTING looking front panel that said "Hyper Diagnostics" > or something like that. > > I bought a HUGE lot of 8" floppy disks from the same place. They almost > certainly came from the same systems. The disks contained RT-11 and RSX. I > found that some of the disks had the driver and diagnostics for the > DSD-880. Also found copies of distribution disks for RT-11 and RSX in the > same pile. > > Joe > Joe, I had one of these boards connected to a pair of Qume (851) drives back in the early 80's. They worked GREAT, could read, write, and format RX01, RX02, and with a modified driver, did DSDD for about 1.2mb per floppy! I wish I had one of these controllers now (I have a pair of 8" drives). Regards, Stuart Johnson From geoffr at zipcon.net Sat Jul 19 23:15:00 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: what might this isa board do? In-Reply-To: <1058661359.12512.17.camel@voltaire.home.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030719211329.0268d220@mail.zipcon.net> it's just a plain old memory board :) At 01:40 AM 7/20/03 +0100, you wrote: >i suppose it could be a plain old memory board, but 1992 seems very late >for that (but still classic :-). > >the faceplate has two stickers, one for the serial number (1074) and the >second has "HYPERTEC R9_BC HRAM CL EX SIMM". > >http://www.jfc.org.uk/misc/card-small.jpg [80 KB] >http://www.jfc.org.uk/misc/card.jpg [432 KB] > >does anyone have any ideas about this card? > >-- > J.F.Carter http://www.jfc.org.uk/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jul 20 00:27:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: Data Systems Design DSD-880 8" floppy and hard drive? In-Reply-To: <010a01c34e66$3097a0a0$0200a8c0@cosmo> References: <3.0.6.16.20030717205309.3daf3460@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030720012328.41ff67c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:25 PM 7/19/03 -0500, you wrote: > >I had one of these boards connected to a pair of Qume (851) drives back in >the early 80's. They worked GREAT, could read, write, and format RX01, RX02, >and with a modified driver, did DSDD for about 1.2mb per floppy! > >I wish I had one of these controllers now (I have a pair of 8" drives). > Carefull what you wish for, it could come true! Seriously I can get the chassis if you want one (or both). But I've already grabbed the drives out of them. Both had one Shugart floppy drive and an 8" hard drive in them. One had a WD1004 hard drive and the other had a Quantum Q2040. I'm not sure if the floppy drive in them was SS or DS. I just grabbed the drives and they were mixed up with other similar drives. But I ended up with one DS drive and about 10 SS ones so they most likely had SS drives in them. I also don't know if the controller/interface card that goes in the computer is still around or not. There are (were?) a couple of chaasis there with DEC cards in them but I have no idea which card(s) are needed for the drive system or if the necessary card(s) are there. Joe From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 20 11:39:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: PDP 8 for over $3000 In-Reply-To: <00d401c349af$53af07b0$0100a8c0@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Jul 2003, ed sharpe wrote: > Due to the fact of the serial number, probably cheap at even twice the > price. > > earliest S/N I have seen on any 8 is the s/n # 18 classic 8 we have at > the museum here. Mine is 130. > we have an 8s but alas the front bezel is really nasty... looking for a > replacement.. perhaps someone has one out there?? Perhaps you can contact the buyer of the 8s and ask if they can get a scan of the front panel for you? The "straight" 8 front panel is actually a piece of glass. I managed to get a real nice scan of it for a PDP-8 replica I built. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 20 11:57:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: Apple clone In-Reply-To: <200307141923.31258.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Jul 2003, Mike wrote: > I was given an interesting machine on the weekend. I was told it was an Apple > clone from Saudi Arabia. One of the manuals that came with it says micom, > but it doesn't look like my other one which is in a apple II style case with > the built in keyboard. This is in what from the front looks like a PC clone > with the dual floppies, and an external keyboard which is missing. > > http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600/clone.jpg > > This time I set the camera to the lowest setting so the picture should be a > little easier to view. Very interesting. It looks like someone just put an Apple ][ clone motherboard inside a clone PC case. Unique, nonetheless. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 20 12:07:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: Apple clone In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20030716163718.01299c5c@mail.optushome.com.au> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, Dr. Ido wrote: > Looking at the motherboard it looks like a generic Apple ][+ clone. Clones > based on the same motherboard were sold here (Australia) in XT style cases > like the one you have, smaller plastic desktop cases (floppy drives side by > side) and Apple ][ style cases with external drives. I've had all three > variants over time. I've seens ads for a luggable version with an internal > mono monitor, but I've never found one. I found the luggable version...sort of. It's actually got a PC motherboard inside, but it's the same thing as the Apple ][ version. I have an advertisement from the company that made these, and they list both PC and Apple ][ versions. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 20 12:09:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: Varian Data Machines In-Reply-To: <3F1567D6.7090905@topinform.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, Andreas Holz wrote: > I got a Varian(Univac) Data Machines 620L100 in very good conditions > including a fixed-head disk, a teletype and a Tektronix storage display. > This machines is dated to 1974. > > I'm in the stage to reassemble to machine and to check the boards. I > hope I'll be able to power on within the next weeks. > > Is there anyone on this list who has experiences with this type of machines? This sounds neat. Keep us posted. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 20 12:29:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: <20030717153335.GB88881@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, R. D. Davis wrote: > Hopefully this isn't too off-topic, but a thought just occured to me > about computers that some may, or may not, want to collect in the > future, which aren't classics yet. It seems that many of the newer > computers have been designed with uncollectability, as well as a high > degree of user-annoyance, in mind. Somehow, either some marketing > idiots, or clueless enginers, got the idea to design computer > equipment that's unstackable due to its rounded-off shape... the iMacs > and some Compaq PeeCees (e.g. Presario 4814) come to mind. Is anyone > going to be seriously interested in collecting computer equipment that > can't be stacked, and does anyone actually find equipment that can't > be stacked, or have anything stacked on top of it (not even a monitor > or books, etc), to be other than an annoyance? Let's see: AT&T Unix PC Intertec SuperBrain Commodore PET PDP-8 (original) ...to name but a few. All classics. None lend themselves well to stackability. But they are certainly worth collecting. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 20 12:31:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: OT-- need plans for a wireless switch In-Reply-To: <3F12BF19.2934.15D1646@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 nerdware@ctgonline.org wrote: > I know this isn't directly related to Classiccmp, but it IS related to > ham radio and electronics, and ham radio and electronics are > related to hamfests, and hamfests attract computer collectors, so > there. I just made the connection. Nicely done. You get a gold star :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 20 12:39:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: plotter In-Reply-To: <20030715210831.41500.qmail@marmara.edu.tr> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, Kenan TOKER wrote: > The broken gear is occured because of using thickker paper. This is true for > this mechanism made by ALPS. You can fix it by using a cement which has two > elements to combine and get rigit. Then the gear is permanently stabilize. The first posting from a Turkish list member? Too cool! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 20 13:02:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > More of a problem is that modern machines are plain unrepairable. Spares > are unavailable even now (when the machine is in production -- you try > getting an ASIC for an Imac or similar...), so %deity knows what it'll be > like in 10 years time. Technical manuals don't exist. The chances of > being able to keep these machines running is minimal :-( And all of the programming will have been sourced out to low-paid workers in India and other developing nations, adding another element of the unknown to picture. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 20 13:05:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > > Hopefully this isn't too off-topic, but a thought just occured to me > > > about computers that some may, or may not, want to collect in the > > > future, which aren't classics yet. It seems that many of the newer > > > > It does worry me that there's not a single microcomputer system made > > today that I actually want to own.... > > There is one microcomputer I would love to have. The Power Mac G5. That and the G4 Cube and the "iLamp". -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 20 13:15:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: Commodore CBM/PET in Terminator 3 In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030718075909.017b7ca0@mail.bedlambells.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, Mark Firestone wrote: > I'm sure they'd have that poor computer in bits, (heh, pun intended) and > still wouldn't let me on the plane with it. I wonder if I could get away > with checked baggage... I tried that with a big clock in a duffel bag at > Manchester (UK) airport, years ago. I got all my bags emptied in front of > me for the trouble. I brought a rather large East German computer from Germany to the US in November of 2001. I got pulled aside in the UK just before boarding my transfer flight to answer questions about it. I had to open the boxes and show the security personnel what was inside. I explained who I was and what I did, and after looking for a bit they must've concluded I wasn't a terrorist and sent me on my way. (At least they held the plane for me :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Jul 20 14:13:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: References: <20030717153335.GB88881@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20030720191210.GH88881@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Vintage Computer Festival, from writings of Sun, Jul 20, 2003 at 10:19:15AM -0700: > AT&T Unix PC [...] > All classics. None lend themselves well to stackability. But they are Not stackable, but the monitor does at least have a flat ridge on which books, papers, parts, etc. can be placed. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From tosteve at yahoo.com Sun Jul 20 14:17:00 2003 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: Need Osborne help with drives Message-ID: <20030720191301.93797.qmail@web40908.mail.yahoo.com> From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Jul 20 14:20:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:54 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030720191929.GI88881@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Vintage Computer Festival, from writings of Sun, Jul 20, 2003 at 10:52:09AM -0700: > And all of the programming will have been sourced out to low-paid > workers in India and other developing nations, adding another element > of the unknown to picture. Shucks... that's just one of those important necessities needed for the U.S. to be on its way to becoming a third-world communist totalitatian nation... we're getting close... just a few more nitwits in chief (presidents) away from it, methinks... by that time, what will anything historical matter? -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jul 20 15:42:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: Commodore CBM/PET in Terminator 3 In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030718075909.017b7ca0@mail.bedlambells.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030720163936.1087d4be@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:05 AM 7/20/03 -0700, you wrote: >On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, Mark Firestone wrote: > >> I'm sure they'd have that poor computer in bits, (heh, pun intended) and >> still wouldn't let me on the plane with it. I wonder if I could get away >> with checked baggage... I tried that with a big clock in a duffel bag at >> Manchester (UK) airport, years ago. I got all my bags emptied in front of >> me for the trouble. > >I brought a rather large East German computer from Germany to the US in >November of 2001. I got pulled aside in the UK just before boarding my >transfer flight to answer questions about it. I had to open the boxes >and show the security personnel what was inside. I explained who I was >and what I did, and after looking for a bit they must've concluded I >wasn't a terrorist and sent me on my way. > >(At least they held the plane for me :) > I visited Kansas last year and meet up with Gary Hildebrand and he showed me some of the local computer sources. In Topeka I found a black Bell&Howell Apple II at a scrap place. I bought it and brought it home with me. At the KC airport they inspected my bags and the Apple II. They wanted to send me over to a maintenance area to have them disassemble the computer so that they could inspect it. Luckily the cover just pops off the Apple II so I was able to open it up and show them that there was nothing inside. I guess they haven't discovered X-ray machines in KC yet! Joe From jdickens at ameritech.net Sun Jul 20 17:39:01 2003 From: jdickens at ameritech.net (jamesd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: what might this isa board do? In-Reply-To: <1058661359.12512.17.camel@voltaire.home.net> References: <1058661359.12512.17.camel@voltaire.home.net> Message-ID: <200307201735.16179.jdickens@ameritech.net> could it be a ram card to upgrade an AT systems ram? On Saturday 19 July 2003 19:35, James Carter wrote: > i suppose it could be a plain old memory board, but 1992 seems very late > for that (but still classic :-). > > the faceplate has two stickers, one for the serial number (1074) and the > second has "HYPERTEC R9_BC HRAM CL EX SIMM". > > http://www.jfc.org.uk/misc/card-small.jpg [80 KB] > http://www.jfc.org.uk/misc/card.jpg [432 KB] > > does anyone have any ideas about this card? From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Sun Jul 20 19:20:01 2003 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: Data Systems Design DSD-880 8" floppy and hard drive? References: <3.0.6.16.20030717205309.3daf3460@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <010a01c34e66$3097a0a0$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <3F1B30BB.B6D94BF9@compsys.to> >Stuart Johnson wrote: > I had one of these boards connected to a pair of Qume (851) drives back in > the early 80's. They worked GREAT, could read, write, and format RX01, RX02, > and with a modified driver, did DSDD for about 1.2mb per floppy! Jerome Fine replies: Which operating system had the modified drivers? I use RT-11 and DEC never bothered to write a driver for an RX03. > I wish I had one of these controllers now (I have a pair of 8" drives). There are controllers available for the DSD-880 which interface on the Qbus for both the RX03 and the 8" hard drive. Unfortunately, the current hardware set-up handles only ONE RX03 in addition to the 8" hard drive. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sun Jul 20 20:27:00 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: OT: remembering old thread from about a year ago: Tek scope Message-ID: <1125.65.123.179.186.1058750193.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> I picked up a Tek 321 scope, and I remembered a thread about a year or so ago about someone with a Tek 3" scope looking for help getting it going. Point me in the right direction, and I'll hold my peace. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Jul 20 21:23:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: OT: remembering old thread from about a year ago: Tek scope In-Reply-To: <1125.65.123.179.186.1058750193.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> References: <1125.65.123.179.186.1058750193.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 ghldbrd@ccp.com wrote: > I picked up a Tek 321 scope, and I remembered a thread about a year or so > ago about someone with a Tek 3" scope looking for help getting it going. A very nice gentleman in Austrailia needed the docs for same - I sent him the service and operator's manuals, and he fixed his scope, and sent me back my doc. So do be aware that I have these, if you need them. Cheerz John From vance at neurotica.com Sun Jul 20 23:45:01 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Jul 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > > Hopefully this isn't too off-topic, but a thought just occured to > > > > me about computers that some may, or may not, want to collect in > > > > the future, which aren't classics yet. It seems that many of the > > > > newer > > > > > > It does worry me that there's not a single microcomputer system made > > > today that I actually want to own.... > > > > There is one microcomputer I would love to have. The Power Mac G5. > > That and the G4 Cube and the "iLamp". I wouldn't mind having a G4 cube sometime, but my brother has a G4 iMac and I'm not impressed by it. I think I'd rather have an AIO G3 with a G4 upgrade. Peace... Sridhar From ssj152 at charter.net Mon Jul 21 00:08:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: Data Systems Design DSD-880 8" floppy and hard drive? References: <3.0.6.16.20030717205309.3daf3460@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <010a01c34e66$3097a0a0$0200a8c0@cosmo> <3F1B30BB.B6D94BF9@compsys.to> Message-ID: <024701c34f45$914c2490$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerome H. Fine" To: "Stuart Johnson" ; Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 7:15 PM Subject: Re: Data Systems Design DSD-880 8" floppy and hard drive? > >Stuart Johnson wrote: > > > I had one of these boards connected to a pair of Qume (851) drives back in > > the early 80's. They worked GREAT, could read, write, and format RX01, RX02, > > and with a modified driver, did DSDD for about 1.2mb per floppy! > > Jerome Fine replies: > > Which operating system had the modified drivers? I use RT-11 > and DEC never bothered to write a driver for an RX03. > > > I wish I had one of these controllers now (I have a pair of 8" drives). > > There are controllers available for the DSD-880 which interface > on the Qbus for both the RX03 and the 8" hard drive. Unfortunately, > the current hardware set-up handles only ONE RX03 in addition > to the 8" hard drive. > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > -- > If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail > address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk > e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be > obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the > 'at' with the four digits of the current year. > > Jerome, The v4.0 distribution of RT-11 comes with source to the DY driver (RX02), which has "commented out" code for DSDD operation, that as best as I can remember, almost works. Until about 2 years ago I still had the floppy with the source, but I determined that I would never need that "stuff" again and - you guessed it - threw it away. As I recall, it was relatively easy to make it work and it maintained compatibility with the RX01 and RX02 formats. As I understand it, the RT-11 v5 code completely removed the DSDD code. At the time I did this, I had been building multi-terminal RT-11 monitors, written a driver for a BCU-11 MIL-STD 1553 controller, and installed TSX-Plus. I was pretty "up" on programming RT-11 at that time. I had also written a Fortran program to read a UCSD P-system disk and write selected files to a CP/M disk, helping me to learn about sector interleave. In case you and any other readers are wondering, yes, I have regretted throwing away the RT-11 media distribution kit, the working floppies for RT-11, my "enhanced" drivers and the one I wrote from scratch - about a thousand times since I did it. Regards, Stuart Johnson From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Jul 21 03:34:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I don't think this is a valid point. The *average* PC user doesn't do > incremental Upgrades, just like the average Mac user doesn't. Indeed; they lack the skills to do so. Which is usually why they call upon their (more) geeky friends to do that for them. > Also, how often does the *average* person replace their system? Last > I checked it's every 3+ years. It's the same for the OS. Down here, I see people change their hardware at least once every year, and the really geeky ones even more often. The lost ones are in a coninuous cycle of upgrade-and-expand, and then, they sell the box and buy a new one (usually in parts) and start over :) > You have to remember that computer companies make their money from > average user, not from the PC users that build their own systems and > are in a constant upgrade cycle. Here, we see four markets: - business user: complete A-brand systems, no upgrades, replacements every 2 to 4 years. - home user: complete systems, either brand (A/B class) or clone. They sometimes build their systems from parts, or just ask a tech friend to do so for them. - techie user: get parts, build system. then slowly replace parts to go with the (speed/features) flow of the market. sell the box eventually, and start over. - lost geek: same as above, but much shorter cycle. And then there's also the 'schools' and 'government' user markets- the schools here usually depend on aftermarket sales (new, but older models of A/B class brand systems) and sometimes clones, and the government usually does like the business user market, with a 2 or 3 year cycle, and buy in bulk from mfcts'. Companies typically live off the business users (where price is less important than reliability), with the home-user buying systems being a good second market (if you have good products.) The parts stuff is mostly a fair stream of income for parts suppliers, not as much for the manufacturers, given that the profit margin is set/maintained by the resellers mostly. I do see a tendency towards quality, though... in the past, the self- built home boxes were usually made of cheap parts. Now, I see people buying the more expensive parts (better brands, or "higher" models of a part) at the expense of having to sit on it for a while longer. (example: I see VERY few Realtek cards sold here, as opposed to the better 3Com and intel-based cards) Cheers, Fred From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Jul 21 03:45:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: what might this isa board do? In-Reply-To: <1058661359.12512.17.camel@voltaire.home.net> Message-ID: On 20 Jul 2003, James Carter wrote: > i suppose it could be a plain old memory board, but 1992 seems very late > for that (but still classic :-). > > the faceplate has two stickers, one for the serial number (1074) and the > second has "HYPERTEC R9_BC HRAM CL EX SIMM". Looks like an address-selectable upper-space memory board. These were often used in conjunction with EMS/LIM drivers to allow for drive caches and the like- I still have an AST RAMpage card for that... could have up to 8x 1MB SIMM. I only used it with 8x256KB, as 1MB's were out of my reach, then. The "starting address" stuff probably sets an address in the upper mem range (C0000 - EFFFF) of the peecee, where you can tell the LIM/EMS drivers where the extra memory is, and how "deep" (how many pages) it is. --f From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Jul 21 09:21:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: Using a Mac mono monitor with PC VGA Message-ID: I recently picked a Macintosh High Res mono monitor (from a Macintosh II system) out of the trash. I'd like to use it with an old PC I have that has a VGA card. I've found a pinout for a VGA->Mac cable at www.technick.net, but I'm wondering if it will work with a mono Mac monitor, as opposed to a color one. TIA. Bob From rdd at rddavis.org Mon Jul 21 10:55:01 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030721155503.GJ88881@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Fred N. van Kempen, from writings of Mon, Jul 21, 2003 at 10:30:07AM +0200: > On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > I don't think this is a valid point. The *average* PC user doesn't do > > incremental Upgrades, just like the average Mac user doesn't. > Indeed; they lack the skills to do so. Which is usually why they call > upon their (more) geeky friends to do that for them. > Down here, I see people change their hardware at least once every year, > and the really geeky ones even more often. The lost ones are in a [...] Something about all of this upgrade mania makes no sense to me. Upgrading just for the sake of upgrading seems rather pointless. If I need more disk space, I'll just add another drive, or another file server. If speed becomes an issue, which it rarely does (I'm talking about UNIX, not Windoze with all of it's super-duper crash-happy bloatware), I'll do processing on a faster system on the network, find a faster system at a hamfest, replace a PC's CPU with a faster CPU, etc... whatever's cheapest. A 200 MHz CPU on a PC running FreeBSD, for example, is plenty fast for most things, from compiling large programs to the kind of processing needed for LaTeX (when writing manuscripts hundreds of pages long), Csound and Lilypond. Peripherals such as keyboards, monitors and laser printers go for many, many, years without being replaced, unless they become unrepairable or higher-resolution is needed... 1280 x 1024 and 1024 x 768 displays have been available for many years. Tape drives - those only get replaced with higher-capacity drives as storage needs increase. Network cards... well, those old 10MBit/s cards from a decade or so ago still work fine. To get this thread more on topic for the list, I can also think of many programs that run, with very satisfactory performance, on many classic systems, from 1MHz Z80 systems, to various PDP-11s, C-64s, Sun-4/110, and assorted MicroVAXen, etc. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Jul 21 11:30:01 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... Message-ID: In the business sector, the depreciation schedules written into the tax codes provide an incentive to replace hardware every 2 or 3 years, whether or not said hardware needs replacing. Back on the topic of this thread: wouldn't _ANY_ computer become collectable at some point, even something like a Packard-Bell, as, say, an example of an early-1990's commodity PC? Not that everyone would want one in their collection. Among the slide rules I own and have used are nice laminated bamboo K&E and Post examples, but I also have a plastic "clone" and a simple wooden no-name model. Perhaps the thrust of the original question should be "future inoperable or unrepairable computers..." Bob -----Original Message----- From: R. D. Davis [mailto:rdd@rddavis.org] Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 10:55 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Future uncollectable computers... Something about all of this upgrade mania makes no sense to me. Upgrading just for the sake of upgrading seems rather pointless. From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Jul 21 12:06:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... References: <20030721155503.GJ88881@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <002f01c34fa9$a695ac40$347ca418@neo.rr.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 11:55 AM Subject: Re: Future uncollectable computers... > Quothe Fred N. van Kempen, from writings of Mon, Jul 21, 2003 at 10:30:07AM +0200: > > > On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > > > I don't think this is a valid point. The *average* PC user doesn't do > > > incremental Upgrades, just like the average Mac user doesn't. > > Indeed; they lack the skills to do so. Which is usually why they call > > upon their (more) geeky friends to do that for them. > > > Down here, I see people change their hardware at least once every year, > > and the really geeky ones even more often. The lost ones are in a > [...] > > Something about all of this upgrade mania makes no sense to me. > Upgrading just for the sake of upgrading seems rather pointless. If I > need more disk space, I'll just add another drive, or another file > server. If speed becomes an issue, which it rarely does (I'm talking > about UNIX, not Windoze with all of it's super-duper crash-happy > bloatware), I'll do processing on a faster system on the network, find > a faster system at a hamfest, replace a PC's CPU with a faster CPU, > etc... whatever's cheapest. A 200 MHz CPU on a PC running FreeBSD, > for example, is plenty fast for most things, from compiling large > programs to the kind of processing needed for LaTeX (when writing > manuscripts hundreds of pages long), Csound and Lilypond. Peripherals > such as keyboards, monitors and laser printers go for many, many, > years without being replaced, unless they become unrepairable or > higher-resolution is needed... 1280 x 1024 and 1024 x 768 displays > have been available for many years. Tape drives - those only get > replaced with higher-capacity drives as storage needs increase. > Network cards... well, those old 10MBit/s cards from a decade or so > ago still work fine. > Alot of people use their computer as a status symbol just like people who sell a perfectly good 3 yr old car at a loss to buy the newest model. There are different hardware requirements for each age of PC's (IBM compatible). The dos era programs ran fine of xt/at/386 systems, windows 3.x on 386/486 systems and windows 9x on high end 486 to today. The main reason people upgrade alot is because of computer gaming, especially the 3d games of the last 5+ years. My last job I was using a p200 compaq and it worked fine for the programs and computations I had to run. A newer computer would have been nicer/faster but wasnt manditory. The CAD guy made use of a dual p2-300/512mb ram/some old expensive video card/9gb uwscsi system that is ancient but ran autocad just fine on windows nt4. I am building a nice collection of original 68k mac software that is still fast and usefull even today on upgraded 68k machines (fast scsi hd's and max memory) even though I have a xp1500 amd 512mb ddr and an ati 9000 video card on my main game pc. If you have any boxed software for the 68k macs you dont want let me know. From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jul 21 12:21:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: <20030721155503.GJ88881@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20030721155503.GJ88881@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: R. D. Davis wrote: >Something about all of this upgrade mania makes no sense to me. >Upgrading just for the sake of upgrading seems rather pointless. If I >need more disk space, I'll just add another drive, or another file >server. If speed becomes an issue, which it rarely does (I'm talking >about UNIX, not Windoze with all of it's super-duper crash-happy >bloatware), I'll do processing on a faster system on the network, find >a faster system at a hamfest, replace a PC's CPU with a faster CPU, >etc... whatever's cheapest. A 200 MHz CPU on a PC running FreeBSD, >for example, is plenty fast for most things, from compiling large >programs to the kind of processing needed for LaTeX (when writing >manuscripts hundreds of pages long), Csound and Lilypond. Peripherals >such as keyboards, monitors and laser printers go for many, many, >years without being replaced, unless they become unrepairable or >higher-resolution is needed... 1280 x 1024 and 1024 x 768 displays >have been available for many years. Tape drives - those only get >replaced with higher-capacity drives as storage needs increase. >Network cards... well, those old 10MBit/s cards from a decade or so >ago still work fine. Congratulations, you just did a good job of showing why it doesn't make any sense to you, and proved you're not a typical user. Most people (that's most people not on this list) don't have a network of various speeds of computers, so finding a faster system on their network isn't an option, just like adding another file server really doesn't make sense in a home environment. As for a 200Mhz PC running FreeBSD being plenty fast for most things, it totally depends on what you do with the computer, and how much time you have to waste waiting on it. I maintain that surfing on a system that slow is painful, it takes way to long to render the webpages. Also, you can forget gaming, graphics, and video (well you can run older games and graphics apps, but video is still out). Basically my point is it's all in what you're using the computer for, as to if it's to slow or not. There are other issues to consider as well, by upgrading, do you get something that is quieter, generates less heat and uses less power? Oh, and how many typical users have tape drives at home :^) Still a lot of those upgrades are pointless. Is it really worth upgrading to get a 5-10% increase in performance? In certain cases, yes, but in most, no. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon Jul 21 12:34:01 2003 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: IBM POWERstation 220 serial terminal Message-ID: <958B228E6A626242A3FEAB621C4C933550A99E@exch2000.cmh.internal> IBM RS/6000 information is here http://www-3.ibm.com/common/ssi/OIAccess query for 7011 Model Highlights 7011-220 * RS/6000 workstation with a POWER Single Chip processor. * 16MB to 64MB of memory, using standard PS/2* memory SIMMs with error checking and correction (ECC) for high reliability and availability * Optional internal fixed disk 200MB, 540MB, 1GB, and 2GB and optional internal 2.88MB diskette drive * Open system design: industry-standard memory, industry-standard integrated SCSI and Ethernet controllers, and two industry-standard Micro Channel slots, for additional growth capability * Dataless, diskless, LAN-attached, or stand-alone workstation * Disk storage expandable up to 9.5GB * Optional POWER Gt1 or Gt1b graphics adapter, including 1-bit graphics frame buffer (does not require a Micro Channel slot), is upgradable to 4-bit or 8-bit graphics * Optional POWER Gt1x graphics adapter for maximum 2D performance Discontinued 1995 _ Mike From kd7bcy at teleport.com Mon Jul 21 12:52:00 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: Using a Mac mono monitor with PC VGA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I recently picked a Macintosh High Res mono monitor (from a >Macintosh II system) out of the trash. I'd like to use it with an >old PC I have that has a VGA card. I've found a pinout for a >VGA->Mac cable at www.technick.net, but I'm wondering if it will >work with a mono Mac monitor, as opposed to a color one. If it's a VGA monitor, it should work fine. One interesting question, does Windows have a profile for that monitor? I know I've seen other Apple monitors listed, but I haven't played with a desktop PC in a while. I've never liked telling a computer that it has a generic monitor... But then I'm a weird person :-) I suppose you'll be OK as long as it's not on of those old Apple II monitors(the monitor for the IIgs has the same 15-pin connector, but is NOT VGA). Would it happen to be the model M0400? I found a web page that shows it is a 12" 640x480. I don't see anything else there that matches. The page shows compatibility with various NuBus video cards - http://home.earthlink.net/~gamba2/vid-mon-matrix.html -- /------------------------------------\ | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | \------------------------------------/ From cb at mythtech.net Mon Jul 21 13:04:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: Using a Mac mono monitor with PC VGA Message-ID: >One interesting question, >does Windows have a profile for that monitor? I know I've seen other >Apple monitors listed, but I haven't played with a desktop PC in a >while. I don't remember the model's off the top of my head, but at least one Apple monitor that shipped for the LC series Macs was a VGA monitor NOT an RGB. Right down to the 15 pin high denisty VGA connector... Apple supplied an RGB to VGA adaptor to use their own monitor! That might very well be the model(s) listed with Windows profiles. -chris From florit at unixville.com Mon Jul 21 13:11:00 2003 From: florit at unixville.com (Louis Florit) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: FA: Motorola Powerstack E PowerPC Message-ID: Hi everyone, I've got a rare, almost borderline classic-cmp system that is very interesting up for auction on ebay. I'm hoping a gentle soul will take it in and give it some play time. Pictures of the boombox stereo looking system: http://www.hudat.com/~florit/20030624-MotorolaPowerstack/ Getting to the mid-90s there was a lot of evolution in processor designs taking place; there was a question as to which company would lead the way into the future; some big players at the time were MIPS, Digital's Alpha, The IBM/Motorola/Apple consortium led PowerPC, and of course, Intel's x86 line. There was plenty of doubt at the time, because Microsoft, who was just then putting out Windows NT 4, supported all of these processors! We all know how the face off ended up. The system I have here is a Motorola Powerstack. It is super rare, I've only seen one other on ebay in 3 years. Its in great shape. I can run a myriad of operating systems: IBM's AIX, WinNT 4, Linux PPC and aparently a beta version of Solaris 2.5 for PowerPCs. As I understand, this system runs the PReP Openfirmware (replaces functions of PC's Bios is a more clean manner). Its called a PowerStack because you can add drive chassis by stacking them on top and adding power and scsi chain cables. In effect, you can make this a low profile computer by removing the section that contains the dat drive, currently. Motorola PowerPC 603e, 100mhz, 64MB ram. SCSI is onboard SCSI-2, with two one inch high removable media device bays, one one inch high non-removable bay for disk, and the scsi expansion enclosure. This particular model is loaded with a thin profile CDROM, floppy drive, 4 gig harddrive, and DAT tape drive (unknown size; 1 or 2g?). It has all kinds of interesting ports on the backside. Video is on a PCI card (Cirrus Logic?), and audio is onboard. There are three PCI slots on a riser board. This system is in distinguished company: It has an actual removable key to start and stop the system. I'm including the system manual, very useful to find out how to assemble/dissasemble the system to get to the insides. Included are the cables to connect the expansion bay scsi. I will also ship the original copy of Sun Solaris 2.5 Beta that was inside the Powerstack when I got it and the CDs with the debian linux ppc I was planning to install. I did not complete the install of debian linux, so it does not boot into the OS; there are some configuration issues to work out- I'd recommend a fresher and newer version of Debian anyhow, as this one is at least 3 years old. Here's the auction link, if you think you're interested: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2742423893&category=4610 If you have any questions, please ask away. From root at parse.com Mon Jul 21 13:11:36 2003 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: M220B (PDP-8/I) schematics available In-Reply-To: <3D310B6E.7050408@gorge.net> from "jpdavis" at Jul 13, 2002 10:26:06 PM Message-ID: <200307171723.NAA28407@parse.com> jpdavis sez... > > Robert Krten wrote: > > > > > > >:-) > > > >In my case, the failure modes were as follows: > > > >2 chips failed with: grounding the PRESET line caused the Q > >to go high as expected, but when PRESET was left floating Q > >went low. [DEC leaves the PRESET and CLEAR lines floating on > >various modules, so I consider this a fair test]. > > > >1 chip failed with insufficient +5 on the Q (or bar-Q, forget > >right at this instant) output. The measured output was something > >like 1.6V. > > > > > > > > > That sounds like a design flaw. Even with TTL, unused inputs should be > tied to somthing. > What was the fanout for the Q /Q on the fried output? This was not in-circuit, this was in a test jig. I don't know what the in-circuit fanout would have been, that would require massive amounts of digging through the schematics :-) Cheers, -RK -- Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! From root at parse.com Mon Jul 21 13:11:48 2003 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: TIFF to PDF (slightly OT, but for a good cause :-)) In-Reply-To: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0CB7@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> from "Gooijen H" at Jul 14, 2003 10:05:33 AM Message-ID: <200307171745.NAA03232@parse.com> Gooijen H sez... > > Get access to an Oc? 3165 with the scan2file option, or > the newer model called DPS100. The machines scan at 52 > A4-sized pages per minute at 600 dpi resolution. > A3-sized runs at 23-26 pages/minute AFAIK. > The output can be selected: either (multi-page) TIFF, > or PDF, but the PDF files are *large* because they are > TIFF with a PDF wrapper. > Acrobat would make those big TIFF files a lot smaller in > size, but then with CD-ROMs available, size only matters > if you need to download from the 'Net. > > I could scan them to a number of PDF's described above, > but you need to ship the doc to The Netherlands, and pay > for the return shipment, if you want them back. And you do! > I am only interested in PDP-11. If I start collecting -8's, > I will definately run out of space as many of us, fighting > the never-ending battle for more space. I've solved the problem, or more correctly, Al Kossow has solved the problem. I scanned them with 400 DPI TIFF at the local copy shop, and Al was able to trim and rotate them and convert them to a PDF. So that's all taken care of :-) http://www.parse.com/~pdp8/pdp8i/drawings.html has the scans... [Thanks to all who replied] Cheers, -RK > > - Henk. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Robert Krten [mailto:root@parse.com] > > Sent: donderdag 10 juli 2003 3:00 > > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Subject: TIFF to PDF (slightly OT, but for a good cause :-)) > > > > > > I have the chance to pay some money and get my 17x22" PDP-8/I > > schematics > > scanned, but they only offer TIFF output. These will be > > scanned in 400 DPI > > mode and put on the web. These are a newer revision than the > > ones posted > > on the web. > > > > What I'd *really* like to do is convert them from TIFF to PDF > > and bind them > > into multi-page PDFs instead of the one-per-page TIFF files > > that I'll get > > from the scanning house. > > > > Any volunteers? Suggestions for *free* software than runs on > > FreeBSD or, worst > > case, Windoze? > > > > Cheers, > > -RK > > > > -- > > Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. > > Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at > www.parse.com > Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! > -- Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! From evan at flextech.net Mon Jul 21 13:11:59 2003 From: evan at flextech.net (Evan R. Pauley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: <1d5.df2c433.2c481e02@aol.com> Message-ID: Our occupational therapist has one of these Aptivas you mention (which we've long since replaced for her) which I think she might be willing to sell. It's still in excellent condition (we also supported this machine for over a year). Let me know privately if you're interested and I'll talk to her about it. -----Original Message----- From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of SUPRDAVE@aol.com Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 10:43 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Future uncollectable computers... In a message dated 7/17/2003 11:33:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rdd@rddavis.org writes: << Hopefully this isn't too off-topic, but a thought just occured to me about computers that some may, or may not, want to collect in the future, which aren't classics yet. >> One model that I used to support and I'd like to find would be the IBM Aptiva stealth model they made back in 1998/1999. I thought it was a neat idea to put the drives in a seperate enclosure below the monitor. From root at parse.com Mon Jul 21 13:12:10 2003 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: TIFF to PDF (slightly OT, but for a good cause :-)) In-Reply-To: <001c01c34a31$34c0f660$5b01a8c0@athlon> from "Antonio Carlini" at Jul 14, 2003 06:56:09 PM Message-ID: <200307171815.OAA07375@parse.com> Antonio Carlini sez... > > > I have the chance to pay some money and get my 17x22" PDP-8/I > > schematics scanned, but they only offer TIFF output. These > > will be scanned in 400 DPI mode and put on the web. These > > are a newer revision than the ones posted on the web. > > > What I'd *really* like to do is convert them from TIFF to PDF > > and bind them into multi-page PDFs instead of the > > one-per-page TIFF files that I'll get from the scanning house. > > 1-bit depth works for all text that I've come across. Sometimes > 8-bit or so helps with photos, but even there I used to scan in > 1-bit and rescan those few pages that did not come out too well. > This may not be an option for you. > > Once you have the final tiffs, you can convert to G4-encoded > TIFF (maybe they'll come that way anyway if you ask nicely, > worth a try since you are paying!) > > > Any volunteers? Suggestions for *free* software than runs on > > FreeBSD or, worst case, Windoze? > > Well c4topdf will turn G4 encoded TIFF into multipage PDF. It may > turn non-G4 TIFF into G4-TIFF on the fly too, but if it does not, > then ImageMagik will (but seems dreadfully slow to me). > > I used Acrobat 5 to do TIFF->G4-TIFF and Acrobat 4 to do multiple > TIFFs to one PDF, but then I was doing this in the office so I > didn't have to shell out for the s/w. > > Here in the UK, A3 (really 11x17) scanners are coming down to > reasonable levels. It might be cheaper to buy a scanner and > stand in front of it for an hour than pay commercial rates > to get the job done. Even better, you might find someone > on list offering to do the job if you pay the return > postage (I'd offer but I'm (probably) not in the right > continent and, more importantly, I no longer have access to > a suitable sheet-feed scanner). Actually, the scanning was quite reasonable. I had 22 pages done, and it cost me CAD$35 -- not too bad when you consider what postage would have cost, and they emailed me the files right away. http://www.parse.com/~pdp8/pdp8i/drawings.html Cheers, -RK -- Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! From sieler at allegro.com Mon Jul 21 13:12:20 2003 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: HP Integral In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3F1690C8.30900.19D8B1AB@localhost> Re: > Last week I purchased an HP Integral :-). For those who've not heard of > Any software out there on the net for it? I have the normal HP disk set Check out: http://www.coho.org/~pete/IPC/integral.html -- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html From cvendel at att.net Mon Jul 21 13:12:32 2003 From: cvendel at att.net (cvendel@att.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: level0 backups... Message-ID: <200307172031.h6HKVvZ31170@huey.classiccmp.org> Hi. I have some tapes, marked /usr level0 unix backup vol1. They appear to have come from an 11/750 (or 780) running UCB Unix 4.1 around 83-84'ish I have tried some commercial PC/WIN software I've used in the past to look at them, but they are coming up unlabelled tapes. If I install some OpenBSD Unix on a spare drive, can I perform a restore from this format and put the image into some subfolder??? Thanks, Curt From fisher at fabric7.com Mon Jul 21 13:12:42 2003 From: fisher at fabric7.com (William Fisher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: sale of linux.net Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030717164635.01d17410@intmail.fabric7.com> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 00:20:21 +0100 (MET) From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: dwight@linuxtoday.com, lwn@lwn.net, lweditors@linuxworld.com, Subject: Re: Linux.net Hey guys, Just thought I'd drop you a note to let you know that I've finally sold the linux.net domain. It took a while (about 15 people have bid on the domain) to find someone who had plans to do something worthwhile with it, but that finally happened last week. I'm not allowed to tell you who actually bought the domain, because they apparently have some big announcement planned for LinuxWorld next week, but I can tell you this: It's *definitely not* Microsoft, and they're planning some cool & useful things for the site. Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, MCSE waltje@InfoMagic.NL InfoMagic Nederland VOF ICQ: 2944198 WWW: http://www.infomagic.nl/~waltje Postbus 1185, 1400 BD BUSSUM NL +31 (35) 6980059 FAX +31 (35) 6980215 UNIX, Windows NT BackOffice and Internetworking Consultants ---------------- I have been reading some of the code you wrote in the early 1990's, lib/getargs.c So doing a little google search turned up the attached message. Going to the www.linux.net web page turned up nothing of interest. May I ask Who bought the name from you and what WERE there plans? Seems that all has gone by the way-side. Thanks, -- Bill (fisher@fabric7.com -- Bill (fisher@fabric7.com) From ernestls at comcast.net Mon Jul 21 13:12:53 2003 From: ernestls at comcast.net (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: <20030717153335.GB88881@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: Does the new Commodore-One count as vintage, or is it considered new? That is a system that I consider to be collectable already. Also the round little iMac with the flat screen. From keith at saracom.com Mon Jul 21 13:13:04 2003 From: keith at saracom.com (Maxwell K. Froedge) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: HP9000/300 Computers, CS80 Disks and Windows In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030717213357.3db7bac0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.1.20030717221600.0162f378@mail.saracom.com> At 09:33 PM 7/17/2003 +0000, you wrote: >At 11:09 AM 7/16/03 -0700, you wrote: > >Hello, > > > >I am new to the list. > > > >My classic computer collection is mainly DEC but I > >must use "classic" HPs at work. Hence my current > >problem. > > > >We have multiple HP9000/300 computers connected via SRM > >to a HP9826 computer running SRM ver 3.12. We also > >have several standalone Viper board based PCs. > > A 7937? Are you sure that's the right model number? I don't recognize it >and it's not in my configuration book. (I'm too tired/lazy to go dig >through the catalogs.) I am fairly sure that is correct. Its at work and I am at home though > I have backups > >made with a HP9144 tape drive. > > > >We could buy a refurbished drive. We were quoted $1300 > >for a HP7937. I would like to avoid that. Since I only > >need a few files from the backup and my application > >could run from the Viper board, if I could get the > >files into a MS-DOS format, my problem would be solved. > > I quess you don't know that you CAN boot from a 9144. I read in one of >the HP manuals that you could but they said that they don't recommend it >except in cases of emergencies. I had plenty of 9144s and tapes and wasn't >worried about wearing them out so I tried it and it worked! It took about >15 minutes instead of 5 seconds, but it worked! Yep, I can boot. But the backup tapes are not bootable. And the SRM software chokes in the Viper board. Complains that a drive is not attached to the high speed buss. > Also do you HAVE to have a 7937? I have some 7957s, 7958, 9153s and >other CS-80 drives. > If I go back with the origianl configuration, I need a "large" drive. I think the 7937 is 571 meg. >???? If the dead drive isn't the boot device then why can't you boot and >then read the files from the tape? Then just dunp it over a null MODEM >cable to a PC or other computer of your choice. Or you can put it on a >floppy disks and use the LIF Utils to read that into a PC. The LIF Utils >are now public domain and can be downloaded from several places on the net >including from HP. I am not sure I have enough free room on the remaining drive. We had though of just blowing away the files on the remaining and installing the backup to it. However, while we have backups we have are hesitant to take a production system down for this. The SRM backup may not even be LIF. I only get 1 entry when I read it from a booted Viper board. Basic does seem to know what to do with it. And I can't boot the Viper with SRM. > > > >Couple of questions: > >1) What format is the SRM backups in? LIF? HFS? Other? > > AFIK backups aren't in any specail or compressed format. They're in the >same format as the operating drives. I've neve rused the SRM OS so I don't >know what format it uses but if you do a CAT of a drive it will tell you at >the top of the listing what the format is. It gives some sort of number instead of HFS or LIF. > >2) Peter Brown, would you share your software? > > I'm sure that he will share it but it's not going to help much. It just >does a raw data dump. It doesn't care about directories, sub-directories, >file allocation or anything else. it just starts at sector 1 bit 1 and >dumps the entire drive. I was hoping it had gotten farther along. Thanks Max From mike at ambientdesign.com Mon Jul 21 13:13:15 2003 From: mike at ambientdesign.com (Mike van Bokhoven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: Apple clone References: <200307141923.31258.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <005b01c34cdc$ddcfe010$3d00a8c0@falco> Hi, I used to build machines identical to this (in New Zealand). The cases were made in Hong Kong (I think, maybe Taiwan - can't remember!), and were exactly like XT cases but with different cutouts, mounting holes etc. They came with external keyboards and adapters, which was a big ease of use bonus over the standard Apple II clones, I reckon. Anyway, looking at this one, I believe I still have a keyboard that would fit it. Whether it works or not is another question. I think it had a female 15-pin socket (forget the terminology for them - DC15??) on the keyboard cable, but as I haven't looked at it in years, I could be mistaken. Feel free to make me an offer for it if you want it - I'm not going to ask much for it, especially as I don't know if it still works! Plus, postage from NZ might be expensive... Mike (another one) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:23 AM Subject: Apple clone > I was given an interesting machine on the weekend. I was told it was an Apple > clone from Saudi Arabia. One of the manuals that came with it says micom, > but it doesn't look like my other one which is in a apple II style case with > the built in keyboard. This is in what from the front looks like a PC clone > with the dual floppies, and an external keyboard which is missing. > > http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600/clone.jpg > > This time I set the camera to the lowest setting so the picture should be a > little easier to view. From george at rachors.com Mon Jul 21 13:13:26 2003 From: george at rachors.com (George Leo Rachor Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: <001c01c34d3d$cca958a0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: As a totally dedicated Intel user my roots were with the Apple ][. My meager collection includes a Lisa and Next ... Then I bought a G4 Cube just for the novelty and love it. It's quiet fan-less design is an engineering masterpiece. It is too bad that Intel PC's just can't be that elegant (or afford to be)... George Rachor On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, TeoZ wrote: > If your a current mac user the g5 WILL be alot faster then what you have, if > your an Intel user I dont see a rush to buy anything made by apple. If your > a unix geek you might want a G5 just to say you own one and make fellow > geeks unworthy of your presence. From florit at unixville.com Mon Jul 21 13:13:38 2003 From: florit at unixville.com (Louis Florit) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: Motorola Powerstack E PowerPC Message-ID: Hi everyone, I've got a rare, almost borderline classic-cmp system that I found very interesting up for auction on ebay. I'm hoping a gentle soul will take it in and give it some play time. Pictures of the boombox stereo looking system: http://www.hudat.com/~florit/20030624-MotorolaPowerstack/ Getting to the mid-90s there was a lot of evolution in processor designs taking place; there was a question as to which company would lead the way into the future; some big players at the time were MIPS, Digital's Alpha, The IBM/Motorola/Apple consortium led PowerPC, and of course, Intel's x86 line. There was plenty of doubt at the time, because Microsoft, who was just then putting out Windows NT 4, supported all of these processors! We all know how the face off ended up. The system I have here is a Motorola Powerstack. It is super rare, I've only seen one other on ebay in 3 years. Its in great shape. I can run a myriad of operating systems: IBM's AIX, WinNT 4, Linux PPC and aparently a beta version of Solaris 2.5 for PowerPCs. As I understand, this system runs the PReP Openfirmware (replaces functions of PC's Bios is a more clean manner). Its called a PowerStack because you can add drive chassis by stacking them on top and adding power and scsi chain cables. In effect, you can make this a low profile computer by removing the section that contains the dat drive, currently. Motorola PowerPC 603e, 100mhz, 64MB ram. SCSI is onboard SCSI-2, with two one inch high removable media device bays, one one inch high non-removable bay for disk, and the scsi expansion enclosure. This particular model is loaded with a thin profile CDROM, floppy drive, 4 gig harddrive, and DAT tape drive (unknown size; 1 or 2g?). It has all kinds of interesting ports on the backside. Video is on a PCI card (Cirrus Logic?), and audio is onboard. There are three PCI slots on a riser board. This system is in distinguished company: It has an actual removable key to start and stop the system. I'm including the system manual, very useful to find out how to assemble/dissasemble the system to get to the insides. Included are the cables to connect the expansion bay scsi. I will also ship the original copy of Sun Solaris 2.5 Beta that was inside the Powerstack when I got it and the CDs with the debian linux ppc I was planning to install. I did not complete the install of debian linux, so it does not boot into the OS; there are some configuration issues to work out- I'd recommend a fresher and newer version of Debian anyhow, as this one is at least 3 years old. Here's the auction link, if you think you're interested: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2742423893&category=4610 If you have any questions, please ask away. From mhstein at canada.com Mon Jul 21 13:13:49 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: Tektronix storage display/terminal manual Message-ID: <01C34D35.E9B0F640@mse-d03> Seems to me I read about someone acquiring a Tektronix storage display terminal; I had one of those years ago with ambitious plans to turn it into a storage scope which never came to anything, so out to the curb it went. However, a friend who worked at Tek at the time was kind enough to obtain a service manual and some spare boards for me (alas, the CRT was defunct) and, although the boards are probably gone, I believe I still have the manual somewhere, so if anybody needs one, send me the model number off-list and I'll try to find it and see if maybe that's the one. No promises though :) Also a binder of TekNotes from the 70's somewhere. (I think I promised it to Sellam many moons ago, but I'm sure he won't mind if I make a copy; besides, this would give me extra incentive to look for it). Almost two years ago I sent a stack of IBM unit record equipment manuals and wiring diagrams to someone (who shall remain nameless - you know who you are :) with the understanding that he would make them available on the Web; if they are, I haven't found them (and my apologies), but now I'm reluctant to give away fairly rare original manuals. m From sml49 at comcast.net Mon Jul 21 13:13:59 2003 From: sml49 at comcast.net (Seth Lewin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: Mac G5 / moving to OS X In-Reply-To: <20030718170001.39028.17511.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: >> If your a current mac user the g5 WILL be alot faster then what you > have, >> if your an Intel user I dont see a rush to buy anything made by apple. > If >> your a unix geek you might want a G5 just to say you own one and make >> fellow geeks unworthy of your presence. > >> The funny thing is mac users who laugh at PC guys upgrading their > hardware >> every year are now doing the same thing, except its alot more costly > for >> them buying complete new machines while PC users just chuck the >> motherboard/ram/video card in their old rig. This upgrade cycle of >> hardware will eventually kill the mac market because only the very > rich >> can keep up. What percentage of mac owners are using OSX? What > percentage >> will upgrade to a current OSX running machine anytime soon? That's not quite the case. Macs have a considerably longer useful life than PCs, generally, and are indeed upgradeable. I just took my January 1999 model Blue G3/400 desktop, swapped the 8.5 GB Ultra2Wide SCSI disk subsystem for a fast 200 gig Maxtor and an ATA 133 card, slipped in an 800 mhz G3 CPU daughtercard and installed a Radeon 7000 instead of the OEM Rage 128 and a LiteOn 52x CDROM instead of the old Matushita 24x (I already have an external 1394 burner) and a Kensington 3-button Studio Mouse. Runs OS 10.26 like a charm. Sure a G5 would be faster but this setup handles a heavy duty OS10.26 without any strain, web pages render in a flash etc. Plus this one will still boot OS9 directly and I can use my old ADB keyboard of which I'm fond. I figure on getting a year or two more out of this machine by which time I may just buy a laptop and use the G3 for a file and web server. I would've LIKED a new machine, but didn't NEED one. Of the four households in this immediate family 3 are on OS X; only my 87 year old father in law doesn't want to upgrade his 1998 rev A iMac and install it. That's 75% penetration. Also the G3/400 daughtercard I removed is now installed in what was formerly a Beige G3/266 I keep at work as a scanning station. That leaves me with a spare ZIF G3/266 daughtercard. Anybody need one? Seth Lewin From mrathlon1700 at aaahawk.com Mon Jul 21 13:14:11 2003 From: mrathlon1700 at aaahawk.com (Casey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: Help Osborne drive B acting strange!!!! Message-ID: <000801c34e14$0e314bd0$97115142@caseyxxoeb3dhr> Hello I have a Osborne 1b and when a boot up to CP/M everything on the A: disks works .But when I try to switch to the B: drive I get a R/W error. But If I format a disk on the B drive or A drive it formats it then B drive works with the floppy I formated and all other software disks work. But when I turn the osborne off and unplug it. after about 20 min unpluged I get the same error with drive B: and I have to the same thing. Is there a any fix for this? Thanks Casey. From art at gardnerbusiness.com Mon Jul 21 13:14:29 2003 From: art at gardnerbusiness.com (Arthur S. Gardner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: IBM Displaywriter References: <200307180932350340.00625DA2@mail.gardnerbusiness.com> <200307181350540770.014EE755@mail.gardnerbusiness.com> <200307191840240620.012CDCF9@mail.gardnerbusiness.com> Message-ID: <200307191858480020.013DB3B5@mail.gardnerbusiness.com> Jim Kearney, I would like to purchase an IBM Displaywriter. Can you help? Thanks Arthur S. Gardner Gardner Business Services 866-321-6611 From art at gardnerbusiness.com Mon Jul 21 13:14:41 2003 From: art at gardnerbusiness.com (Arthur S. Gardner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: IBM Displaywriter References: <200307180932350340.00625DA2@mail.gardnerbusiness.com> <200307181350540770.014EE755@mail.gardnerbusiness.com> <200307191840240620.012CDCF9@mail.gardnerbusiness.com> Message-ID: <200307191901150060.013FF21E@mail.gardnerbusiness.com> Lawrence Walker, I would like to purchase an IBM Displaywriter. Can you help? Thanks Arthur S. Gardner Gardner Business Services 866-321-6611 From ernestls at comcast.net Mon Jul 21 13:14:53 2003 From: ernestls at comcast.net (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: Apple Clone In-Reply-To: <001101c34e53$03170c00$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of peter tremewen > > I have one of these Plastic cased Apples. One question I > do have is what sort of keyboard they use. The keyboard conector > on the mother board is wited directly to a nine pin serial socket > on the back of the machine. Does it use the standard Apple II > keyboard in a special case?? I seem to remember seeing info on > how to wire an IBM keyboard to an apple some where. Can this be > done for this machine?? Or am I mistaken. In spite of my small > collection of Apple II parts I have never really taken much > notice of these machines until recently when I have decided to do > a "clean out" so advice on how to get this Apple in a more > useable state would be apreciated...... I have a MicroSCI Havoc that uses a Cherry brand keyboard, and Multitech also made a generic external Apple II keyboard that would work on both the MPF II/III. I also have an Orange 2 that I believe also uses a Cherry keyboard. I also have a couple of plain external Apple II keyboards but I'm not sure who made them. I would assume that an Apple II/II+ keyboard would also work if you could add one of the 9-pin adapters in place of the socket plug that the standard Apple II uses but I haven't tested that. http://12.228.5.66 From ba600 at freenet.carleton.ca Mon Jul 21 13:15:05 2003 From: ba600 at freenet.carleton.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: FWD: FS: RARE black Bell & Howell Apple ][ Plus with drives Message-ID: <20030720213614.878E74209D@smeagol.ncf.ca> > FS: RARE black Bell & Howell Apple ][ Plus with drives > > Selling an excellent condition black Bell & Howell Apple ][ Plus with > matching black drives. This is a genuine Apple computer, distributed > through Bell & Howell (has both companies logos on the nameplates of the > computer and disk drives). > > Asking $499.00 US or best offer. > > Please email me for more details at: > pmode4@mts.net -- Collector of Vintage Computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600/ From nerdware at ctgonline.org Mon Jul 21 13:15:17 2003 From: nerdware at ctgonline.org (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: OT-- need plans for a wireless switch In-Reply-To: References: <3F16D1B1.D7336678@rain.org> Message-ID: <3F1B1060.3772.382F9741@localhost> > Why not just put a foortwitch on the floor - allowing hands-free > operation with no wire mess and trying to press a button and turn a > corner at the same time.... > Thought about that, but with the manual gearbox, the left foot gets a workout as well. Plus, I have reasonably large feet, so the room up there is minimal. I have a footswitch I can try for a while, to see if I can work it. > Of course if you have a manual transmission this might be slightly > less > than optimal, but I've done it many times with several vehicles - > never had a problem. > However, my main goal was to be able to talk while shifting, which requires my left hand to be on the wheel, my right hand on the shifter, and the left foot on the clutch.... I may not be able to make that happen. The more I think about it, the IR or RF options have their own set of problems. The hard- wired, wheel-mounted switch works fine in race cars because they never have to go more than one turn lock-to-lock or so, therefore don't have to worry about the cable tangling. Other option I just thought about is to put the switch on the column, on the left side, with a paddle that's wide enough to keep my finger on it while I'm making a mild turn. If I need to make larger steering inputs, I can stop talking and concentrate on not hitting someone... > Cheers > > John KB6SCO 73, Paul WD9GCO Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From Fred.Allen at fujitsu.com.au Mon Jul 21 13:15:31 2003 From: Fred.Allen at fujitsu.com.au (Allen, Fred) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: Old 7181 terminals Message-ID: <165A8959F515CB478F491530D8816768BE8803@MEL0689.au.fjanz.com> G'day Guys, just came across your query about 7181s. If you're still interested, here's some info:- These were an ICL-manufactured 2000 character text video terminal used for a variety of purposes in the early seventies. They were a replacement for the Cossor DIDS units. While later modules used new-fangled MOS memory, earlier models used a circular wire accoustic delay-line as the data storage element. In theory, this unit was in synch with the CRT scanning such that, as the electron beam reached a particular spot on the screen, the data for the character at that spot would just be appearing at the delay-line output. The speed of the data through the delay line was notoriously temperature sensative - a real problem in Australia if the air-conditioning broke down in summer! The spot scanning method was a little bizarre also - there were only 25 horizontal scans per frame but there was a small high frequency vertical scan component superimposed on the normal vertical scan, such during each of the 25 horizontal line scans, the beam 'painted' each character in that line character-by-character as it traversed the screen. ( Very different from the ~500+ pixel-line scan universally adopted by just about everyone else!. ) The keyboards were a parallel data design, and those fitted to the early 7181s were fitted with Hall-effect switch key modules ( I have a logic diagram of one of these somewhere! ) - a real "find" for the hobbyist! The 7181s on which I worked ( around 1972 ), talked across a synchronous V24 link to ICL System 4 mainframes. They used ICL's proprietary C03 protocol where multi-dropped terminals on one comms link could be individually polled for outstanding messages. Thus the operators were effectively entering data 'off-line' until they pressed the 'send' key, whereupon the next poll to that terminal would result in the date being transferred to the mainframe. Cheers Fred From roger.williams at nonin.com Mon Jul 21 13:15:43 2003 From: roger.williams at nonin.com (Roger Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: SN94281? Message-ID: <606B63EBCD4BD84A952F3CB432A3740B0131C1E9@elmer> Do you have any more of these chips? From cvendel at att.net Mon Jul 21 13:15:56 2003 From: cvendel at att.net (cvendel@att.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: RL02 Terminators Message-ID: <200307211606.h6LG6ZZ64573@huey.classiccmp.org> Anybody have any for sale, contact me: cvendel@att.net Curt From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jul 21 13:21:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: Cannon Cat Message-ID: <200307211817.LAA02155@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Al I finally got time to play with the Cannnon Cat. It powers up just fine and seems to run the disk OK as well. The battery is dead but that doesn't seem to be an issue. I fiddled with it some and found that if I hold the button in the back down during power up, it goes into the diagnostics. I know there is a way to cause it to go to the Forth prompt but I don't recall how it was done. If I can find a fellow named John Bumbgardener ( sp? ), he knows all of the tricks for these. Dwight From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Mon Jul 21 13:23:01 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:55 2005 Subject: OT-- need plans for a wireless switch References: <3F16D1B1.D7336678@rain.org> <3F1B1060.3772.382F9741@localhost> Message-ID: <3F1C2EB4.2B6CCE3D@comcast.net> Paul Braun wrote: > > However, my main goal was to be able to talk while shifting, which > requires my left hand to be on the wheel, my right hand on the > shifter, and the left foot on the clutch.... > > I may not be able to make that happen. The more I think about it, > the IR or RF options have their own set of problems. The hard- > wired, wheel-mounted switch works fine in race cars because they > never have to go more than one turn lock-to-lock or so, therefore > don't have to worry about the cable tangling. Other option I just > thought about is to put the switch on the column, on the left side, > with a paddle that's wide enough to keep my finger on it while I'm > making a mild turn. If I need to make larger steering inputs, I can > stop talking and concentrate on not hitting someone... > What about taking an idea from the NOS guys? They usually put the switch for nitrous on the shifter handle, in the thumb position. Kinda like a fire button on a fighter's control stick... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From cb at mythtech.net Mon Jul 21 14:00:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... Message-ID: >My meager collection includes a Lisa and Next ... Watch the flashing light... your eye lids are growing heavier and heavier. You want to give me your Lisa, you want nothing more than that in the whole world. When I snap my fingers you will awaken and ship your Lisa to me. -chris From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Jul 21 14:19:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: Mac G5 / moving to OS X References: Message-ID: <002a01c34fba$131d3b20$347ca418@neo.rr.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Seth Lewin" To: Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 4:30 PM Subject: Re: Mac G5 / moving to OS X > >> If your a current mac user the g5 WILL be alot faster then what you > > have, > >> if your an Intel user I dont see a rush to buy anything made by apple. > > If > >> your a unix geek you might want a G5 just to say you own one and make > >> fellow geeks unworthy of your presence. > > > >> The funny thing is mac users who laugh at PC guys upgrading their > > hardware > >> every year are now doing the same thing, except its alot more costly > > for > >> them buying complete new machines while PC users just chuck the > >> motherboard/ram/video card in their old rig. This upgrade cycle of > >> hardware will eventually kill the mac market because only the very > > rich > >> can keep up. What percentage of mac owners are using OSX? What > > percentage > >> will upgrade to a current OSX running machine anytime soon? > > That's not quite the case. Macs have a considerably longer useful life than > PCs, generally, and are indeed upgradeable. I just took my January 1999 > model Blue G3/400 desktop, swapped the 8.5 GB Ultra2Wide SCSI disk subsystem > for a fast 200 gig Maxtor and an ATA 133 card, slipped in an 800 mhz G3 CPU > daughtercard and installed a Radeon 7000 instead of the OEM Rage 128 and a > LiteOn 52x CDROM instead of the old Matushita 24x (I already have an > external 1394 burner) and a Kensington 3-button Studio Mouse. Runs OS 10.26 > like a charm. Sure a G5 would be faster but this setup handles a heavy duty > OS10.26 without any strain, web pages render in a flash etc. Plus this one > will still boot OS9 directly and I can use my old ADB keyboard of which I'm > fond. I figure on getting a year or two more out of this machine by which > time I may just buy a laptop and use the G3 for a file and web server. I > would've LIKED a new machine, but didn't NEED one. Of the four households > in this immediate family 3 are on OS X; only my 87 year old father in law > doesn't want to upgrade his 1998 rev A iMac and install it. That's 75% > penetration. Also the G3/400 daughtercard I removed is now installed in what > was formerly a Beige G3/266 I keep at work as a scanning station. That > leaves me with a spare ZIF G3/266 daughtercard. Anybody need one? > > Seth Lewin That machine was already OSX compatible and is still supported. My much older PM8500 with 448mb ram, G3-400/1mb, usb card, acard 66 with 40x IDE cdrom and 60gb 7200 rpm HD , ultimaterez 8mb video card can run OSX via xpostfacto and is much older then your machine. I use it for OS 9.1 which it runs very fast and have no plans on getting an OSX supported machine. Most of the people I know who collect macs collect the 68k machines and have a few PCI era machines also, and they all run either A/UX, linux, or macos. Old PC's have a decent user life if you want to run the older dos/windows 3.x/win95 apps. While I think a G5 would be interesting to mess with (and alot of people think the same) I dont see anybody I talk to even thinking about buying one anytime soon. These same people upgrade their PC's every year or 2. I see alot of people trying to run Windows XP on real old hardware where it runs like crap, just like alot of people trying to run OSX on hardware where it runs very slow. I like to run the OS that is most productive for the hardware. From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jul 21 14:54:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: 8-inch disk drives In-Reply-To: <001901c34fbc$4f255b00$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> References: <20030715141324.7071.qmail@jaydemail.com> <20030717093320.K81976@newshell.lmi.net> <001901c34fbc$4f255b00$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> Message-ID: <20030721121913.J21624@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Nico de Jong wrote: > From: "Fred Cisin" > To: > Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 6:39 PM > Subject: [Spam][95.7%] Re: 8-inch disk drives I RESPONDED. Please be careful with attribution. > That depends on if you want to tinker yourself or want someone to do it. It didnb't sound like the original poster had the requisite understanding to be able to write a file system handler. > I have used a MicroSolutions floppy controller for a project, where I had to be able to read each and every sector (128 bytes up to 1024 bytes) from an 8" disk (SSSD to DSDD). > It was suggested, that you could use PC controllers for 1.2 meg disks for the job, but this is not the case, as they will only recognize 512 byte sectors and only DOS file systems. The MicrosSolutions Floppy controller (Compaticard) IS an 8bit ISA PC 1.2M controller. THE ONLY difference is SOFTWARE! The Microsolutions floppy controller (Compaticard) is my favorite, but it is nothing magical. It ALSO will "only recognize 512 byte sectors and only DOS file systems". What is needed is SOFTWARE! And "Uniform" (the software package from MicroSolutions) does NOT do Minc. (Nor does Xenocopy - but he already has a working serial connection up and running!) > You can do a Google search on "media conversion", which gives many hits. I've been there, done that, supported more formats than anybody else. > You could also take a look at www.farumdata.dk/enindex.htm if you want to explore the possibilities i can offer in our servicebureau. > Who many disks are we talking about ? A service bureau, such as yours, would certainly be the best option if he can't figure out how to do it with his existing serial connection. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From esharpe at uswest.net Mon Jul 21 14:54:22 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: Interdata Model 70 on eBay References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030717115311.03da89d8@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <015e01c34fc9$b235d8c0$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> that I- 70 does have to take the award for the worst photo on ebay though... what a neat computer though! I remember these as many were still being used even in 1979. Thanks! Ed Sharpe Archivist for SMECC See the Southwest Museum of Engineering, Communications and Computation online at: http://www.smecc.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Uban" To: Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 9:55 AM Subject: Interdata Model 70 on eBay > There is an Interdata Model 70 on eBay, which is going soon. I would be > interested in this, but I am out of time, space, and money. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2741450706&category=1247 > > I have no affiliation with this auction, yada, yada, yada... > > --tom From esharpe at uswest.net Mon Jul 21 14:54:34 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: Interdata Model 70 on eBay References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030717115311.03da89d8@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <015e01c34fc9$b235d8c0$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> that I- 70 does have to take the award for the worst photo on ebay though... what a neat computer though! I remember these as many were still being used even in 1979. Thanks! Ed Sharpe Archivist for SMECC See the Southwest Museum of Engineering, Communications and Computation online at: http://www.smecc.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Uban" To: Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 9:55 AM Subject: Interdata Model 70 on eBay > There is an Interdata Model 70 on eBay, which is going soon. I would be > interested in this, but I am out of time, space, and money. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2741450706&category=1247 > > I have no affiliation with this auction, yada, yada, yada... > > --tom From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jul 21 15:27:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > - business user: complete A-brand systems, no upgrades, replacements every > 2 to 4 years. > > - home user: complete systems, either brand (A/B class) or clone. They > sometimes build their systems from parts, or just ask a > tech friend to do so for them. I think the typical home user is much more like the business user, with a bit lower system specs and a longer replacement cycle (3-6 years). Fewer and fewer people have the time, or more importantly the skills, to build their own systems these days, and unless they really want performance, there is no longer any cost advantage to building your system from parts as their was 6-10 years ago. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jul 21 15:28:07 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Feldman, Robert wrote: > Back on the topic of this thread: wouldn't _ANY_ computer become > collectable at some point, even something like a Packard-Bell, as, say, > an example of an early-1990's commodity PC? Not that everyone would want > one in their collection. Among the slide rules I own and have used are > nice laminated bamboo K&E and Post examples, but I also have a plastic > "clone" and a simple wooden no-name model. Indeed, eventually. Some might have significance in the future that don't have any today, for example an upstart clone PC maker that in the future will be wildly successful or innovative and change the industry (raise your hand if you want the first Dell PC to add to their collection). For typical clone computers, it will take decades, if not centuries, before they have any kind of historical value or interest to most people. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jul 21 15:44:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: FA: Motorola Powerstack E PowerPC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Louis Florit wrote: > The system I have here is a Motorola Powerstack. It is super rare, I've > only seen one other on ebay in 3 years. Its in great shape. I can run a Just an aside here...just because something doesn't show up on eBay in 3 years, it doesn't mean there's not a warehouse of them somewhere. It doesn't mean there is, but it doesn't mean there isn't. Basically, eBay should not be used as the sole indicator of something's rarity. That being said, your Motorola Powerstack is indeed pretty rare. I've never seen one before. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ian_primus at yahoo.com Mon Jul 21 15:44:25 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: Using a Mac mono monitor with PC VGA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <96AF42D4-BBB9-11D7-9D8B-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> If it's a monochrome monitor, chances are that it won't work. A lot of those old monitors were fixed frequency, and can't be driven by a PC VGA card. On Monday, July 21, 2003, at 02:00 PM, chris wrote: >> One interesting question, >> does Windows have a profile for that monitor? I know I've seen other >> Apple monitors listed, but I haven't played with a desktop PC in a >> while. > > I don't remember the model's off the top of my head, but at least one > Apple monitor that shipped for the LC series Macs was a VGA monitor NOT > an RGB. Right down to the 15 pin high denisty VGA connector... Apple > supplied an RGB to VGA adaptor to use their own monitor! > Yup, I know that monitor, that's the Apple Basic Color monitor. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jul 21 15:44:35 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Ernest wrote: > Does the new Commodore-One count as vintage, or is it considered new? That > is a system that I consider to be collectable already. Also the round little > iMac with the flat screen. Not vintage, but like the eMate or the iMac or the G4 Cube (as examples) it is definitely an "instant collectible" :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ian_primus at yahoo.com Mon Jul 21 15:44:46 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: Why is it that it's so easy to kill time, yet so hard to make it? Message-ID: Argh! I have had almost zero free time as of late. I have been busy with work, and on top of that, I have been sick. I have way too many things going on at the moment and nothing seems to be getting done. I'm trying to get caught up on email and various other things. To all the people that wanted to buy something from the basement sale, don't worry, I haven't forgotten about you, although your request may be buried in several feet of spam at the moment. I have been attempting to get my workshop to a point where I can actually work, and get things ready to ship out. In the process of cleaning, I have found many interesting things, like, for instance, my workbench. And the floor. Also, I have another heap of things that I really don't need, and I'll post that list once I get previous requests taken care of. Also, I have acquired a couple of new things for my collection, but I haven't had the time or space to play with them yet. Anyway, sorry for my apparent disappearance from the face of the 'net, I'm trying to get caught up... Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jul 21 15:44:58 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, George Leo Rachor Jr. wrote: > Then I bought a G4 Cube just for the novelty and love it. It's quiet > fan-less design is an engineering masterpiece. It is too bad that Intel > PC's just can't be that elegant (or afford to be)... It's also too bad that the system tends to overheat and self-destruct because of fan-less design :( -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Jul 21 16:16:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... References: Message-ID: <3F1C5539.2030405@jetnet.ab.ca> chris wrote: >>My meager collection includes a Lisa and Next ... > > > Watch the flashing light... your eye lids are growing heavier and > heavier. You want to give me your Lisa, you want nothing more than that > in the whole world. When I snap my fingers you will awaken and ship your > Lisa to me. > > You forgot the shipping address. :) Future uncollectable computers...Get them today! From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jul 21 16:32:01 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: References: <20030717153335.GB88881@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030721133446.00a595a0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 12:15 AM 7/18/03 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: >It does worry me that there's not a single microcomputer system made >today that I actually want to own.... Actually this is sort of an exciting time to be a collector. This is the last decade that I suspect computers will "look" like computers, as reductions in size and the push for lower costs force more and more integration of functions, and the CRT slowly fades away to flat panel technology. The last of a generation must have a few gems worth preserving. Three possible items off the top of my head are: Apple Cube Tricked out lucite case lan party PC with all the lights and fans and leds. A Generic tower systen, since that is what will be gone. From emu at ecubics.com Mon Jul 21 17:45:26 2003 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: level0 backups... In-Reply-To: <200307172031.h6HKVvZ31170@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200307172031.h6HKVvZ31170@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3F1C321F.4090609@ecubics.com> cvendel@att.net wrote: > I have some tapes, marked /usr level0 unix backup vol1. > > They appear to have come from an 11/750 (or 780) running UCB Unix 4.1 around > 83-84'ish I have tried some commercial PC/WIN software I've used in the past > to look at them, but they are coming up unlabelled tapes. > > If I install some OpenBSD Unix on a spare drive, can I perform a restore > from this format and put the image into some subfolder??? Should work, if not, the chances are much better on *BSD to find software which can read the tapes ... Worst case, just make images of the tapes. And, if there is anything on them of any interest, please don't forget about the www.tuhs.org ;-) cheers From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Jul 21 17:48:03 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: Mac G5 / moving to OS X In-Reply-To: References: <20030718170001.39028.17511.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030721133123.01a4c150@mail.ubanproductions.com> Hi Seth, I'm curious if you bought those upgrades new, and what they cost? --tnx --tom At 04:30 PM 7/18/2003 -0400, you wrote: > >> If your a current mac user the g5 WILL be alot faster then what you > > have, > >> if your an Intel user I dont see a rush to buy anything made by apple. > > If > >> your a unix geek you might want a G5 just to say you own one and make > >> fellow geeks unworthy of your presence. > > > >> The funny thing is mac users who laugh at PC guys upgrading their > > hardware > >> every year are now doing the same thing, except its alot more costly > > for > >> them buying complete new machines while PC users just chuck the > >> motherboard/ram/video card in their old rig. This upgrade cycle of > >> hardware will eventually kill the mac market because only the very > > rich > >> can keep up. What percentage of mac owners are using OSX? What > > percentage > >> will upgrade to a current OSX running machine anytime soon? > >That's not quite the case. Macs have a considerably longer useful life than >PCs, generally, and are indeed upgradeable. I just took my January 1999 >model Blue G3/400 desktop, swapped the 8.5 GB Ultra2Wide SCSI disk subsystem >for a fast 200 gig Maxtor and an ATA 133 card, slipped in an 800 mhz G3 CPU >daughtercard and installed a Radeon 7000 instead of the OEM Rage 128 and a >LiteOn 52x CDROM instead of the old Matushita 24x (I already have an >external 1394 burner) and a Kensington 3-button Studio Mouse. Runs OS 10.26 >like a charm. Sure a G5 would be faster but this setup handles a heavy duty >OS10.26 without any strain, web pages render in a flash etc. Plus this one >will still boot OS9 directly and I can use my old ADB keyboard of which I'm >fond. I figure on getting a year or two more out of this machine by which >time I may just buy a laptop and use the G3 for a file and web server. I >would've LIKED a new machine, but didn't NEED one. Of the four households >in this immediate family 3 are on OS X; only my 87 year old father in law >doesn't want to upgrade his 1998 rev A iMac and install it. That's 75% >penetration. Also the G3/400 daughtercard I removed is now installed in what >was formerly a Beige G3/266 I keep at work as a scanning station. That >leaves me with a spare ZIF G3/266 daughtercard. Anybody need one? > >Seth Lewin From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Jul 21 17:48:14 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: apology for the delay Message-ID: <00e201c34fb6$4e6e4ec0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Sorry all the email got backed up on cctech for a few days. I just got back from the Great Oklahoma Excersion(tm) with Guy to pick up Jeff Sharp's collection - hence I was away from the list for a few days. God was Oklahoma HOT!!! Lots of pictures of the move were taken. I'm shipping my pictures off to Guy and he'll put them up on his website sometime I'm sure. Regards, Jay West From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jul 21 17:48:26 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: Cannon Cat Message-ID: <200307211834.LAA02175@clulw009.amd.com> Oops! Suppost to be for Al Kossow. I should look at the reply to lines. Dwight >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" > >Hi Al > I finally got time to play with the Cannnon Cat. >It powers up just fine and seems to run the disk >OK as well. The battery is dead but that doesn't >seem to be an issue. > I fiddled with it some and found that if I hold >the button in the back down during power up, it >goes into the diagnostics. I know there is a way >to cause it to go to the Forth prompt but I don't >recall how it was done. If I can find a fellow named >John Bumbgardener ( sp? ), he knows all of the tricks >for these. >Dwight From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Jul 21 17:48:37 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: OT-- need plans for a wireless switch In-Reply-To: <3F1B1060.3772.382F9741@localhost> References: <3F16D1B1.D7336678@rain.org> <3F1B1060.3772.382F9741@localhost> Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Jul 2003, Paul Braun wrote: > > > Thought about that, but with the manual gearbox, the left foot gets > a workout as well. Plus, I have reasonably large feet, so the room > up there is minimal. I have a footswitch I can try for a while, to see > if I can work it. Having a manual gearbox myself - it just now occurs to me that an interesting place for the PTT switch might be on the gearshift lever, under the knob somewheres... Hmmmm - got new truck, time for rig in same - hmmm... Cheers John From jruschme at netzero.net Mon Jul 21 17:48:50 2003 From: jruschme at netzero.net (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: Mac G5 / moving to OS X In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Actually, I was wondering what you did with the leftover Rage 128. <<>> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Seth Lewin > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 4:31 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Mac G5 / moving to OS X > > That > leaves me with a spare ZIF G3/266 daughtercard. Anybody need one? From jim at jkearney.com Mon Jul 21 17:49:02 2003 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: IBM Displaywriter References: <200307180932350340.00625DA2@mail.gardnerbusiness.com> <200307181350540770.014EE755@mail.gardnerbusiness.com> <200307191840240620.012CDCF9@mail.gardnerbusiness.com> <200307191858480020.013DB3B5@mail.gardnerbusiness.com> Message-ID: <00e101c34fba$64d92690$1301090a@xpace.net> > Jim Kearney, > > I would like to purchase an IBM Displaywriter. > > Can you help? I guess this is related to this old posting: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2002-August/000854.html but I don't actually have a machine, sorry. Jim From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Jul 21 17:49:14 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: Data Systems Design DSD-880 8" floppy and hard drive? References: <3.0.6.16.20030717205309.3daf3460@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <010a01c34e66$3097a0a0$0200a8c0@cosmo> <3F1B30BB.B6D94BF9@compsys.to> Message-ID: <3F1C4F1C.1050604@tiac.net> RT-11, the DSD boxes cannot use stock DEC drivers. Jerome H. Fine wrote: >>Stuart Johnson wrote: >> > >>I had one of these boards connected to a pair of Qume (851) drives back in >>the early 80's. They worked GREAT, could read, write, and format RX01, RX02, >>and with a modified driver, did DSDD for about 1.2mb per floppy! >> > >Jerome Fine replies: > >Which operating system had the modified drivers? I use RT-11 >and DEC never bothered to write a driver for an RX03. > >>I wish I had one of these controllers now (I have a pair of 8" drives). >> > >There are controllers available for the DSD-880 which interface >on the Qbus for both the RX03 and the 8" hard drive. Unfortunately, >the current hardware set-up handles only ONE RX03 in addition >to the 8" hard drive. > >Sincerely yours, > >Jerome Fine >-- >If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail >address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk >e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be >obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the >'at' with the four digits of the current year. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jul 21 17:49:26 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: Tektronix storage display/terminal manual In-Reply-To: <01C34D35.E9B0F640@mse-d03> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, M H Stein wrote: > Seems to me I read about someone acquiring a Tektronix > storage display terminal; I had one of those years ago > with ambitious plans to turn it into a storage scope > which never came to anything, so out to the curb it went. > However, a friend who worked at Tek at the time was > kind enough to obtain a service manual and some spare > boards for me (alas, the CRT was defunct) and, although > the boards are probably gone, I believe I still have > the manual somewhere, so if anybody needs one, send > me the model number off-list and I'll try to find it > and see if maybe that's the one. No promises though :) > Also a binder of TekNotes from the 70's somewhere. > > (I think I promised it to Sellam many moons ago, but > I'm sure he won't mind if I make a copy; besides, this > would give me extra incentive to look for it). Indeed, you did, because I have the hardware and am in need of the manual :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Mon Jul 21 17:49:39 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: eBay rescue Message-ID: I hope that there is a list member in the area of Sterling Virginia who is willing to "rescue" the IMS 8000 machine being sold in the auction referenced below. The seller states that "If there are no bids, the machine and disks will be taken to the Loudoun County, Virginia landfill." Here's a link to the auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&item=2743455193&category=4193 Considering the volume of stuff it would be a shame to see it lost like that. For those not interested in hitting eBay, I've copied the auction text below: IMS 8000 S-100 computer system This computer has a Z-80 processor, 64KB (128KB?) of RAM, and dual half- height 8" DSDD floppy drives. The 8" drives were replaced about 5 years ago; the machine has seen little use since then. Some assorted spare boards are included, as are about 500 floppies including master disks for CP/M, CP/M Plus, MP/M, PL/I, and lots of other software. A manual is included, and notebooks containing BIOS listings and notes on drivers. Industrial Micro Systems made systems of legendary reliability, and this machine, over 20 years old, is no exception. I used it a couple of months ago, and it worked perfectly. However, I'm short of space, so this piece of equipment needs a new home fast. It is large and heavy, with wooden sides and a steel chassis. I will not even attempt to ship it. The auction winner must pick it up in Sterling, Virginia. If there are no bids, the machine and disks will be taken to the Loudoun County, Virginia landfill. Please note: I have nothing to do with this auction, the seller or the merchandise. I am just trying to prevent the loss of an interesting artifact. If someone is local and can pick it up but isn't interested in keeping it, I _might_ be able to pay for shipping (at great risk to my health - my next computer might be my last if my wife follows through on her threats! :) Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From melamy at earthlink.net Mon Jul 21 18:19:00 2003 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: eBay rescue Message-ID: <210703202.58478@webbox.com> it won't make it to the dump. I live in Fredericksburg, VA and I will pick the system up unless somebody else here in VA wants it real bad. best regards, Steve Thatcher >--- Original Message --- >From: "Erik Klein" >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Date: 7/21/03 1:12:20 PM > I hope that there is a list member in the area of Sterling Virginia who >is willing to "rescue" the IMS 8000 machine being sold in the auction >referenced below. The seller states that "If there are no bids, the >machine and disks will be taken to the Loudoun County, Virginia >landfill." > >Here's a link to the auction: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? >ViewItem&item=2743455193&category=4193 > >Considering the volume of stuff it would be a shame to see it lost like >that. > >For those not interested in hitting eBay, I've copied the auction text >below: > >IMS 8000 S-100 computer system > >This computer has a Z-80 processor, 64KB (128KB?) of RAM, and dual half- >height 8" DSDD floppy drives. The 8" drives were replaced about 5 years >ago; the machine has seen little use since then. >Some assorted spare boards are included, as are about 500 floppies >including master disks for CP/M, CP/M Plus, MP/M, PL/I, and lots of >other software. > >A manual is included, and notebooks containing BIOS listings and notes >on drivers. > >Industrial Micro Systems made systems of legendary reliability, and >this machine, over 20 years old, is no exception. I used it a couple of >months ago, and it worked perfectly. > >However, I'm short of space, so this piece of equipment needs a new >home fast. It is large and heavy, with wooden sides and a steel >chassis. I will not even attempt to ship it. The auction winner must >pick it up in Sterling, Virginia. If there are no bids, the machine and >disks will be taken to the Loudoun County, Virginia landfill. > >Please note: I have nothing to do with this auction, the seller or the >merchandise. I am just trying to prevent the loss of an interesting >artifact. > >If someone is local and can pick it up but isn't interested in keeping >it, I _might_ be able to pay for shipping (at great risk to my health - >my next computer might be my last if my wife follows through on her >threats! :) > > Erik Klein > www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum > The Vintage Computer Foru From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jul 21 18:21:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: Canon Cat (was: Cannon Cat In-Reply-To: <200307211834.LAA02175@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200307211834.LAA02175@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20030721161456.Q24937@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Oops! Suppost to be for Al Kossow. I should look at > the reply to lines. > Dwight Nevertheless, if you try to do any searching for info, you might get more results if you spell it "CANON" instead of "CANNON". > >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" > > > >Hi Al > > I finally got time to play with the Cannnon Cat. > >It powers up just fine and seems to run the disk > >OK as well. The battery is dead but that doesn't > >seem to be an issue. > > I fiddled with it some and found that if I hold > >the button in the back down during power up, it > >goes into the diagnostics. I know there is a way > >to cause it to go to the Forth prompt but I don't > >recall how it was done. If I can find a fellow named > >John Bumbgardener ( sp? ), he knows all of the tricks > >for these. > >Dwight From melamy at earthlink.net Mon Jul 21 18:28:01 2003 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: eBay rescue Message-ID: <210703202.59090@webbox.com> a follow up to my first message is that any docs I get will be available as pdf files for free to anyone that needs them. I am not sure what will come with it, but I will let the group know. best regards, Steve >--- Original Message --- >From: "Steve Thatcher" >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Date: 7/21/03 3:15:07 PM > it won't make it to the dump. I live in Fredericksburg, VA and >I will pick the system up unless somebody else here in VA wants >it real bad. > >best regards, Steve Thatcher > >>--- Original Message --- >>From: "Erik Klein" >>To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>Date: 7/21/03 1:12:20 PM >> >I hope that there is a list member in the area of Sterling Virginia >who >>is willing to "rescue" the IMS 8000 machine being sold in the >auction >>referenced below. The seller states that "If there are no bids, >the >>machine and disks will be taken to the Loudoun County, Virginia > >>landfill." >> >>Here's a link to the auction: >> >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? >>ViewItem&item=2743455193&category=4193 >> >>Considering the volume of stuff it would be a shame to see it >lost like >>that. >> >>For those not interested in hitting eBay, I've copied the auction >text >>below: >> >>IMS 8000 S-100 computer system >> >>This computer has a Z-80 processor, 64KB (128KB?) of RAM, and >dual half- >>height 8" DSDD floppy drives. The 8" drives were replaced about >5 years >>ago; the machine has seen little use since then. >>Some assorted spare boards are included, as are about 500 floppies > >>including master disks for CP/M, CP/M Plus, MP/M, PL/I, and >lots of >>other software. >> >>A manual is included, and notebooks containing BIOS listings >and notes >>on drivers. >> >>Industrial Micro Systems made systems of legendary reliability, >and >>this machine, over 20 years old, is no exception. I used it >a couple of >>months ago, and it worked perfectly. >> >>However, I'm short of space, so this piece of equipment needs >a new >>home fast. It is large and heavy, with wooden sides and a steel > >>chassis. I will not even attempt to ship it. The auction winner >must >>pick it up in Sterling, Virginia. If there are no bids, the >machine and >>disks will be taken to the Loudoun County, Virginia landfill. >> >>Please note: I have nothing to do with this auction, the seller >or the >>merchandise. I am just trying to prevent the loss of an interesting > >>artifact. >> >>If someone is local and can pick it up but isn't interested >in keeping >>it, I _might_ be able to pay for shipping (at great risk to >my health - >>my next computer might be my last if my wife follows through >on her >>threats! :) >> >> Erik Klein >> www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum >> The Vintage Computer For From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jul 21 18:34:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: Canon Cat (was: Cannon Cat Message-ID: <200307212330.QAA02550@clulw009.amd.com> Wow Fred! You are great. I wondered why I got so few :) Spelling is not one of my best attributes. Dwight >From: "Fred Cisin" > >On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >> Oops! Suppost to be for Al Kossow. I should look at >> the reply to lines. >> Dwight > >Nevertheless, if you try to do any searching for info, you might get more >results if you spell it "CANON" instead of "CANNON". > > > > >> >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" >> > >> >Hi Al >> > I finally got time to play with the Cannnon Cat. >> >It powers up just fine and seems to run the disk >> >OK as well. The battery is dead but that doesn't >> >seem to be an issue. >> > I fiddled with it some and found that if I hold >> >the button in the back down during power up, it >> >goes into the diagnostics. I know there is a way >> >to cause it to go to the Forth prompt but I don't >> >recall how it was done. If I can find a fellow named >> >John Bumbgardener ( sp? ), he knows all of the tricks >> >for these. >> >Dwight From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon Jul 21 18:41:00 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: OT: remembering old thread from about a year ago: Tek scope In-Reply-To: References: <1125.65.123.179.186.1058750193.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Message-ID: <2248.65.123.179.132.1058830251.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> > On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 ghldbrd@ccp.com wrote: > >> I picked up a Tek 321 scope, and I remembered a thread about a year or >> so >> ago about someone with a Tek 3" scope looking for help getting it going. > > > A very nice gentleman in Austrailia needed the docs for same - I sent > him the service and operator's manuals, and he fixed his scope, and sent > me back my doc. > > So do be aware that I have these, if you need them. > > Cheerz > > John > Okay, I think I'll take you up on the offer. You can send it by mail to: Gary Hildebrand Box 6184 St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 Home phone: 816-662-2612 I'll reimburse you for the cost. Send it at media rate, that's quite a saving over first class. From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jul 21 18:49:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: Canon Cat (was: Cannon Cat In-Reply-To: <200307212330.QAA02550@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200307212330.QAA02550@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20030721164046.T24937@newshell.lmi.net> > >Nevertheless, if you try to do any searching for info, you might get more > >results if you spell it "CANON" instead of "CANNON". On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Wow Fred! You are great. I wondered why I got so few :) > Spelling is not one of my best attributes. > Dwight I try to avoid hassling people about speling (for fear that somebody might start pointing out how many misteaks I make). But I will post a correction if it is for proofing a document, or where the error might interfere with information retrieval, or if it is particularly funny. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jul 21 19:08:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: Canon Cat (was: Cannon Cat Message-ID: <200307220004.RAA02570@clulw009.amd.com> Hi A quick check of "canon cat" lead me into THE ( The Human Interface ). Interesting stuff and some what on topic as it is related to early Mac development. Dwight >From: "Fred Cisin" > >> >Nevertheless, if you try to do any searching for info, you might get more >> >results if you spell it "CANON" instead of "CANNON". > >On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >> Wow Fred! You are great. I wondered why I got so few :) >> Spelling is not one of my best attributes. >> Dwight > >I try to avoid hassling people about speling (for fear that >somebody might start pointing out how many misteaks I make). >But I will post a correction if it is for proofing a document, >or where the error might interfere with information retrieval, >or if it is particularly funny. > >-- >Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jul 21 19:44:01 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: <009a01c34d39$31dc4660$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <200307180233.TAA09380@floodgap.com> <007201c34d2b$8b853040$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <000d01c34d30$e3b70fe0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030721142700.03393c90@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 10:30 AM 7/18/03 -0400, John Allain wrote: > > It will make g4 machines dirt cheap as > > ** the herd ** > > sells them off... > >Wasn't it Apple themselves that made the "Lemmings" >commercial featuring people marching off a cliff in unison? >Things change... Oh Well. The catch is that many Apple users actually make money fairly directly related to the performance of their computers, so they do tend to grab the latest greatest as soon as they can get one in there hands. I remember talking to a graphic arts person back when the Apple Cinema display came out at like $3499, and she expected it to pay for itself within a couple months. From karlpaul36 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 21 19:49:00 2003 From: karlpaul36 at hotmail.com (Karl Paul) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 Message-ID: I'm looking for the dos 1.0 manual and binder. I have the disk and nothing else. Anyone out there have a manual and binder they would like to sell? Karl _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Jul 21 20:20:00 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: Epson Geneva In-Reply-To: <200307220004.RAA02570@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030721181318.0269eec0@mail.zipcon.net> Just came into posessionf of 2 of these, need to find my 5V wallwart of the right amperage and light em up/charge em. one of them has Dbase in rom :) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jul 21 21:03:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: help! shugart 801 Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030721214007.3c278be4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I have several systems that use Shugart 800-1 SS 8" disk drives. I've got several defective drives plus I've been wanting some spares. Last week I picked up 10 Shugart model 801 SS drives. Today I tried to use them on the same systems but I can't make them work. I've set all the jumpers and straps exactly the same as in the 800-1 drives but the 801s aren't working. The system knows the drive is there and detects the disk being in place and rotating and that the drive door closed but the drive never gets the head load signal. I'm using the same system, cables, power supply, etc with both drives so the only difference is the drives themselves. I've tried a couple of 801s and gotten exactly the same results with all of them so I don't think that it due to a drive failure. Anybody have any experience with these or have a good idea of what's wrong? Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jul 21 21:03:20 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: HP9000/300 Computers, CS80 Disks and Windows In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.1.20030717221600.0162f378@mail.saracom.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030717213357.3db7bac0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030721214949.3abf1c50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:24 PM 7/17/03 -0400, you wrote: > > >Yep, I can boot. But the backup tapes are not bootable. And the SRM software >chokes in the Viper board. Complains that a drive is not attached to the high >speed buss. Hmmm. Interesting. So it will only boot from a device on the HS bus? I haven't seen that before. I know the tape drive isn't a HS device but it may still work on that interface. > >> Also do you HAVE to have a 7937? I have some 7957s, 7958, 9153s and >>other CS-80 drives. >> > >If I go back with the origianl configuration, I need a "large" drive. I >think the >7937 is 571 meg. Wow! that's a whopper for a HP-IB drive! I used to have a 7963 drive that was about 900 Mb IIRC (all three disks installed) but I don't know if it's still around or not. > > >> >Couple of questions: >> >1) What format is the SRM backups in? LIF? HFS? Other? >> >> AFIK backups aren't in any specail or compressed format. They're in the >>same format as the operating drives. I've neve rused the SRM OS so I don't >>know what format it uses but if you do a CAT of a drive it will tell you at >>the top of the listing what the format is. > >It gives some sort of number instead of HFS or LIF. Hmmm. I've never seen that before. > > >> >2) Peter Brown, would you share your software? >> >> I'm sure that he will share it but it's not going to help much. It just >>does a raw data dump. It doesn't care about directories, sub-directories, >>file allocation or anything else. it just starts at sector 1 bit 1 and >>dumps the entire drive. > >I was hoping it had gotten farther along. He's working on it. I know he's eagerly collecting images from various drives in an attempt to dope out the file systems. I have some drives that I need to read but his SW only runs under W98 and I don't have a HP-IB setup in a W98 system. Joe > >Thanks >Max From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Mon Jul 21 21:32:01 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: eBay rescue In-Reply-To: <210703202.59090@webbox.com> References: <210703202.59090@webbox.com> Message-ID: <20030722022845.GA4204@4mcnabb.net> Well, I guess if I can drive from Blacksburg VA to Idaho to pick up a machine, a trip to Loudon County isn't that bad. My bid has been placed. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Christopher L McNabb Tel: 540 231 7554 Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@vt.edu Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.205622N 80.414595W GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jul 21 21:53:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: Technical Magic 8S ? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030721225116.3c3729be@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Anybody familar with a "Technical magic 8S" card? I found several of them in a DEC system. They're double width cards and have eight AMI S1602P LSI ICs on them. Chip Directory says that the 1602s are UARTs. Joe From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Mon Jul 21 22:30:01 2003 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: Data Systems Design DSD-880 8" floppy and hard drive? References: <3.0.6.16.20030717205309.3daf3460@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <010a01c34e66$3097a0a0$0200a8c0@cosmo> <3F1B30BB.B6D94BF9@compsys.to> <3F1C4F1C.1050604@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3F1CAEB1.E6DDE67D@compsys.to> >Bob Shannon wrote: > RT-11, the DSD boxes cannot use stock DEC drivers. Jerome Fine replies: I believe you are incorrect. The extra detail is as follows: The DSD boxes can use BOTH the hard drive (emulating an RL01 for the 8 MByte hard drive or 3 * RL02 for the 30 MByte hard drive) and the single 8" floppy drive (emulating an RX02) with stock (distributed) device drivers. I have done so with BOTH V4.00 and V5.03 distributions of RT-11. I agree there needs to be a SYSGEN to be able to use all 3 * RL02 drives with the DL(X).SYS device drivers and the hardware handles ONLY 18 bit addresses for both the DYX.SYS and DLX.SYS device drivers. BUT the RLV11 and the RXV12 from DEC also managed to handle only 18-bit addresses. So the DSD box was completely compatible with the stock (distributed) V4.00 of RT-11. However, V4.00 code in DY.MAC contained the extra instructions to use a double-sided media which would probably have been called an RX03. And although those extra instructions had bugs (after all they had never been tested) and were removed by V5.00 of RT-11, I did fix the bugs and ran a DYX.SYS device driver under V5.03 of RT-11 using the DSD 8" floppy as a double-sided drive. In addition, I also added a bounce buffer in DYX.SYS so that a user buffer above 256 KBytes could be used with the 18-bit hardware addresses in the floppy. I would appreciate any replies, especially ones which correct the above information and what I actually did with the DSD hardware and the RT-11 software. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From vance at neurotica.com Mon Jul 21 22:34:00 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: FA: Motorola Powerstack E PowerPC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: These aren't as rare as you would think. I've passed up at least four in the last couple of years. Peace... Sridhar On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Louis Florit wrote: > Hi everyone, I've got a rare, almost borderline classic-cmp system that > is very interesting up for auction on ebay. I'm hoping a gentle soul > will take it in and give it some play time. > > Pictures of the boombox stereo looking system: > http://www.hudat.com/~florit/20030624-MotorolaPowerstack/ > > Getting to the mid-90s there was a lot of evolution in processor designs > taking place; there was a question as to which company would lead the > way into the future; some big players at the time were MIPS, Digital's > Alpha, The IBM/Motorola/Apple consortium led PowerPC, and of course, > Intel's x86 line. There was plenty of doubt at the time, because > Microsoft, who was just then putting out Windows NT 4, supported all of > these processors! We all know how the face off ended up. > > The system I have here is a Motorola Powerstack. It is super rare, I've > only seen one other on ebay in 3 years. Its in great shape. I can run > a myriad of operating systems: IBM's AIX, WinNT 4, Linux PPC and > aparently a beta version of Solaris 2.5 for PowerPCs. As I understand, > this system runs the PReP Openfirmware (replaces functions of PC's Bios > is a more clean manner). From donm at cts.com Mon Jul 21 22:56:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: Epson Geneva In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030721181318.0269eec0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Geoff Reed wrote: > Just came into posessionf of 2 of these, need to find my 5V wallwart of the > right amperage and light em up/charge em. one of them has Dbase in rom :) What you want, Jeff is 6vdc at 600ma with plus to the shell. - don From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Mon Jul 21 23:17:01 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 Message-ID: This one shows up on e-Bay from time to time, but at outrageous prices... -sigh- Cheers... Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, Texas, USA Office: (210)592-3110, Fax (210)592-2048 Email: edward.tillman@valero.com -----Original Message----- From: Karl Paul [mailto:karlpaul36@hotmail.com] I'm looking for the dos 1.0 manual and binder. I have the disk and nothing else. Anyone out there have a manual and binder they would like to sell? Karl _________________________________________________________________ From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Jul 21 23:35:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: Technical Magic 8S ? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030721225116.3c3729be@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Joe wrote: > Anybody familar with a "Technical magic 8S" card? I found several of > them in a DEC system. They're double width cards and have eight AMI S1602P > LSI ICs on them. Chip Directory says that the 1602s are UARTs. Most probably DZ(V)-11 clone cards, or, 8-port async serial cards, with or without modem control. --f From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Tue Jul 22 00:58:00 2003 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: Token ring (UK) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001b01c35015$77de52a0$4d4d2c0a@atx> Am clearing out my garage to make space for a PDP 11/34. Is there any interest at all in a fair-sized pile of token ring stuff - some 4MHz, some 4/16MHz (cards [inc unused PCMCIA], cables, MAUs etc) or should it all go to the dump. eBay prices appear to be too low to be worth the bother. I suspect that thge only people who might be interested in collecting TR have already been able to pick up as much as they want. This is in Rayleigh, Essex (England) Andy From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Jul 22 01:05:00 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:56 2005 Subject: Token ring (UK) In-Reply-To: <001b01c35015$77de52a0$4d4d2c0a@atx> References: <001b01c35015$77de52a0$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: <2368.65.123.179.144.1058853265.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> I have a box full of token-ring adapters, IBM new in the box, and can't find a nibble here in the States. I've been told that token ring netowrking is an IBM only system, and requies an IBM server to play. Guess that's why everyone went to Ethernet. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO > Am clearing out my garage to make space for a PDP 11/34. > Is there any interest at all in a fair-sized pile of token ring stuff - > some > 4MHz, some 4/16MHz (cards [inc unused PCMCIA], cables, MAUs etc) or should > it all go to the dump. > eBay prices appear to be too low to be worth the bother. > I suspect that thge only people who might be interested in collecting TR > have already been able to pick up as much as they want. > > This is in Rayleigh, Essex (England) > > Andy From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Jul 22 01:24:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: Token ring (UK) In-Reply-To: <2368.65.123.179.144.1058853265.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 ghldbrd@ccp.com wrote: > I have a box full of token-ring adapters, IBM new in the box, and can't > find a nibble here in the States. I've been told that token ring > netowrking is an IBM only system, and requies an IBM server to play. Nah. Although they ended up being the only ones still holding on to it, TR was, at one point, a fairly widely-used topology, especially in areas where network delay was an issue. 4Mbps TR was faster than 10Mbps Ethernet, when under heavy load, simply because TR avoids the collapsing of throughput when the number of collisions goes up (on Ethernet). Still.. TR was expensive as hell, and cabling was same. NIC vendors were not abundant (IBM, Madge, 3Com and Compaq come to mind) so those were expensive, too. But... TR was good stuff, just expensive, which eventually made it exotic... --f From kd7bcy at teleport.com Tue Jul 22 02:48:00 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: Using a Mac mono monitor with PC VGA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I don't remember the model's off the top of my head, but at least one >Apple monitor that shipped for the LC series Macs was a VGA monitor NOT >an RGB. Right down to the 15 pin high denisty VGA connector... Apple >supplied an RGB to VGA adaptor to use their own monitor! That would be the Apple Basic Color Monitor, which I got with my IIvx long long ago... Makes it easy to hook up to a PC. Every other Apple monitor I've seen has had a regular 15-pin. FWIW, they are all indeed VGA monitors. The adaptors for plugging a PC monitor into a Mac or a Mac monitor into a PC were fairly common back then, and should still be available if you look around. -- /------------------------------------\ | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | \------------------------------------/ From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Tue Jul 22 03:16:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: Docs Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030722040212.00a61db0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> A professor in the physics department at William and Mary college needs docs for the LeCroy 8901A gpib camac crate controller. I have one of the modules, but it's only docs he needs, which I do not have, yet. http://www.physics.wm.edu/ If anyone has these, and wants to help him out, let me know and I'll forward his contact info. > Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:09:07 -0400 > Subject: LeCroy 8901A Manual Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Do you have a manual ( or a photocopy thereof ) for a LeCroy 8901A gpib camac crate controller? > Thanks From nedry at mail.bedlambells.com Tue Jul 22 04:30:01 2003 From: nedry at mail.bedlambells.com (nedry ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: Token ring (UK) Message-ID: <200307220249.AA111149736@mail.bedlambells.com> Where I work (in the UK) we have token ring. Great network, but 16meg is slow... even if you can load it up to 90% and still have it work. I have a Andrew MAU under my desk at home. Am going to set up my own token ring segment... only problem is, it is a US box, and wants 110 v. take Care, Mark ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Fred N. van Kempen" Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:20:27 +0200 (CEST) >On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 ghldbrd@ccp.com wrote: > >> I have a box full of token-ring adapters, IBM new in the box, and can't >> find a nibble here in the States. I've been told that token ring >> netowrking is an IBM only system, and requies an IBM server to play. >Nah. Although they ended up being the only ones still holding on to >it, TR was, at one point, a fairly widely-used topology, especially >in areas where network delay was an issue. 4Mbps TR was faster than >10Mbps Ethernet, when under heavy load, simply because TR avoids the >collapsing of throughput when the number of collisions goes up (on >Ethernet). From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jul 22 05:48:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: Data Systems Design DSD-880 8" floppy and hard drive? In-Reply-To: <3F1CAEB1.E6DDE67D@compsys.to> References: <3.0.6.16.20030717205309.3daf3460@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <010a01c34e66$3097a0a0$0200a8c0@cosmo> <3F1B30BB.B6D94BF9@compsys.to> <3F1C4F1C.1050604@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030722064022.3cc73ff0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:25 PM 7/21/03 -0400, you wrote: >>Bob Shannon wrote: > >> RT-11, the DSD boxes cannot use stock DEC drivers. > >Jerome Fine replies: > >I believe you are incorrect. I can settle this. I have the RT-11 and all the other disks from the syustem. If anyone is interested they can take the disks and find out how they were controlling the DSD devices. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jul 22 05:50:02 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030722064316.3b974218@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I have one that I'll sell at an outragous price :-) Mine even has thet "rare" sticker on it that says "Version 1.1" and comes equiped with the "rare" DOS 1.1 disks. Joe At 11:13 PM 7/21/03 -0500, you wrote: >This one shows up on e-Bay from time to time, but at outrageous prices... >-sigh- > >Cheers... > >Ed Tillman >Store Automation Tech Support Specialist > Valero Energy Corporation >San Antonio, Texas, USA >Office: (210)592-3110, Fax (210)592-2048 >Email: edward.tillman@valero.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Karl Paul [mailto:karlpaul36@hotmail.com] > >I'm looking for the dos 1.0 manual and binder. I have the disk and nothing >else. Anyone out there have a manual and binder they would like to sell? > >Karl >_________________________________________________________________ From jbmcb at hotmail.com Tue Jul 22 10:15:00 2003 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: FS: RARE black Bell & Howell Apple ][ Plus with drives References: <20030720213614.878E74209D@smeagol.ncf.ca> Message-ID: Does anyone know how "rare" these things really are? I've got one laying around somewheres. Works too, but there's a hole drilled into the side so it's not exactly museum quality. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Kenzie" To: Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 5:36 PM Subject: FWD: FS: RARE black Bell & Howell Apple ][ Plus with drives > > FS: RARE black Bell & Howell Apple ][ Plus with drives > > > > Selling an excellent condition black Bell & Howell Apple ][ Plus with > > matching black drives. This is a genuine Apple computer, distributed > > through Bell & Howell (has both companies logos on the nameplates of the > > computer and disk drives). > > > > Asking $499.00 US or best offer. > > > > Please email me for more details at: > > pmode4@mts.net > > > > -- > Collector of Vintage Computers > http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600/ From jbmcb at hotmail.com Tue Jul 22 10:19:00 2003 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: Token ring (UK) References: Message-ID: I worked for a now defunct web company (aren't they all :) which did a lot of work for a large car company. They dumped their former web hosting conglomerate (amazingly still in business) for IBM. One of our IT guys had to go down to make sure the web site we were programming would install onto IBM's application servers, so he had to go down to their gigantic server farm in, I think, North Carolina. They told him to bring a token ring card, cause *everything* at the server farm was token ring. Wanna take a guess how much an IBM branded PCMCIA gigabit-token ring card goes for? :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 2:20 AM Subject: Re: Token ring (UK) > On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 ghldbrd@ccp.com wrote: > > > I have a box full of token-ring adapters, IBM new in the box, and can't > > find a nibble here in the States. I've been told that token ring > > netowrking is an IBM only system, and requies an IBM server to play. > Nah. Although they ended up being the only ones still holding on to > it, TR was, at one point, a fairly widely-used topology, especially > in areas where network delay was an issue. 4Mbps TR was faster than > 10Mbps Ethernet, when under heavy load, simply because TR avoids the > collapsing of throughput when the number of collisions goes up (on > Ethernet). > > Still.. TR was expensive as hell, and cabling was same. NIC vendors > were not abundant (IBM, Madge, 3Com and Compaq come to mind) so those > were expensive, too. > > But... TR was good stuff, just expensive, which eventually made it > exotic... > > --f From cheri-post at web.de Tue Jul 22 10:49:00 2003 From: cheri-post at web.de (Pierre Gebhardt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: Fujitsu (Fuji) Eagle manuals Message-ID: <200307221545.h6MFjjQ21620@mailgate5.cinetic.de> Hi, Al, thanks alot to you as well ! I was still searching for the manuals of the M2333K drive, when I found them on spies.com . Two Super Eagles are waiting to be connected but I need some manuals of these either. My question: Are there essential differences between the Eagle - and the Super Eagle drives (M2351 vs. M2361) ? Could I use the docs for the M2351 to set the jumpers or should I wait until I get the correct manuals ? By the way: I got the service manual for the PRIAM V130/V150/V170/V185 drives 4 months ago and manuals for the CENTURY DATA Trident T200/T300 and T25/T50/T80 drives (I'm not sure, if the numbers are correct, I'll have to look it up the next weekend). Currently, I do not have the time to scan them as I'm writing exams but if anybody is interested, I could scan them in the comming months. Pierre > > Al, > > >> What I didn't see was if the manuals were ever scanned and made > >>available/on-line. > > > >www.spies.com/aek/pdf/fujitsu/B03P-4655-0001A_2351_Dec84.pdf > > Once again, you're right on top of things! Thanks so much. > > John ______________________________________________________________________________ Wo gibt es den besten Spam-Schutz? Computerbild 15-03 sagt bei WEB.DE FreeMail - Deutschlands beste E-Mail - http://s.web.de/?mc=021123 From cb at mythtech.net Tue Jul 22 10:51:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: scanning booklets for archive Message-ID: I finally have a scanning system setup here for archiving documents. Does anyone have a good idea of how to deal with booklets? That is, items that are printed on 8.5x11 paper, then folded over and stapled. RIght now, I have been opening the booklet to the center, removing the paperclip, then cutting the booklet in half down the spine, and scanning the first half as double sided then the 2nd half as double sided in order to keep the pages in order. (obviously I'm concerned with multipage booklets) This is fine, for things that are headed to the trash after scanning, but for things I might want to hang on to, I don't really want to cut the booklet in half. Is there any recommendations on how best to keep the pages in order? What do others do? Or does everyone either leave them in printed bound order for later reprinting (which means in the wrong order for reading in a PDF, booklet printed order for a 12 page booklet would be 1/12, 2/11, 3/10 and so on) or do things the hard manual way by scanning to image, and cutting the image up into the right parts before going to PDF (right now I am doing things the lazy way and scanning directly into Acrobat so I'm never touching the raw image). Suggestions? -chris From aek at spies.com Tue Jul 22 10:57:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: scanning booklets for archive Message-ID: <200307221556.h6MFuRiP010466@spies.com> > Does anyone have a good idea of how to deal with booklets? I scan them as double pages, and have some scripts I use with GraphicConverter which splits them and resizes the page to 8.5 x 11 From RCini at congressfinancial.com Tue Jul 22 10:58:00 2003 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: scanning booklets for archive Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5127AE0@MAIL10> If I need to do this, I make a copy of the book using a copier at work. Many better copiers have a "book copy" mode where the spine is centered along the center line of the scanning bed and the copier automatically copies both pages. At the end, some page re-sorting has to be done, but that's it. Then, I stack the pages on my 5200Csi with a document feeder attachment and let Acrobat scan them. -----Original Message----- From: chris [mailto:cb@mythtech.net] Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 11:47 AM To: Classic Computer Subject: scanning booklets for archive I finally have a scanning system setup here for archiving documents. Does anyone have a good idea of how to deal with booklets? That is, items that are printed on 8.5x11 paper, then folded over and stapled. RIght now, I have been opening the booklet to the center, removing the paperclip, then cutting the booklet in half down the spine, and scanning the first half as double sided then the 2nd half as double sided in order to keep the pages in order. (obviously I'm concerned with multipage booklets) This is fine, for things that are headed to the trash after scanning, but for things I might want to hang on to, I don't really want to cut the booklet in half. Is there any recommendations on how best to keep the pages in order? What do others do? Or does everyone either leave them in printed bound order for later reprinting (which means in the wrong order for reading in a PDF, booklet printed order for a 12 page booklet would be 1/12, 2/11, 3/10 and so on) or do things the hard manual way by scanning to image, and cutting the image up into the right parts before going to PDF (right now I am doing things the lazy way and scanning directly into Acrobat so I'm never touching the raw image). Suggestions? -chris From cb at mythtech.net Tue Jul 22 11:19:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: scanning booklets for archive Message-ID: >I scan them as double pages, and have some scripts I use with >GraphicConverter which splits them and resizes the page to 8.5 x 11 Oooh... wanna share the scripts? Although my scanner goes to a Win98 box, I don't object to transfering the files to my Mac for post processing (my scanner is a Logitech FreeScan sheet feed roll scanner... not the greatest unit in the world, but it was free and its working. I should really look at the cost of a sheet feeder for my flatbed Umax so I can go right to my Mac). -chris From cb at mythtech.net Tue Jul 22 11:21:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: scanning booklets for archive Message-ID: >If I need to do this, I make a copy of the book using a copier at work. Many >better copiers have a "book copy" mode where the spine is centered along the >center line of the scanning bed and the copier automatically copies both >pages. At the end, some page re-sorting has to be done, but that's it. Come to think of it, my copier does offer that feature. Humm... I'll have to think about that. I just hate to generate MORE waste paper in order to go more paperless. Although if the item has enough value to me, then it will probably be worth it. -chris From patrick at evocative.com Tue Jul 22 11:21:12 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: scanning booklets for archive In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5127AE0@MAIL10> Message-ID: > If I need to do this, I make a copy of the book using a copier at > work. Many > better copiers have a "book copy" mode where the spine is > centered along the > center line of the scanning bed and the copier automatically copies both > pages. At the end, some page re-sorting has to be done, but that's it. Yup, I do exactly the same. The copiers at the local Kinko's have cool settings for "erasing" margins, too, which you can set to prevent any black/gray outer edges, and get rid of the staple marks, tattered corners, or even punch holes in the binding. I archive my new one-sided copies as well as the originals from which they are made, so I can always go back and rescan or whatever without further stress on the original document. FYI, my local Kinko's, and I'm sure most of their other locations and competitors, have large-format copiers (C, D, and even E size sheets), which are great for those big schematics. --Patrick From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Jul 22 11:26:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: Canon Cat (was: Cannon Cat Message-ID: <200307221622.JAA03166@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I did a search for "canon cat" with google in the news groups and found the trick to enable Forth on the Cat. There was a note from Derek Peschel that discribed it well enough that I was able to figure it out. It has two Forth modes. One uses the Forth engine to calculate things from the text of on the page. The next level of mode drops you into a Forth interpreter. It seems to take most Forth commands but I tried things like vlist and words but these were not part of the vocabulary. I'd like to see what its vocabulary is but it may not have a word defined to do this. It does have such words as C@ and @ as well as it compiles new words. This means I can do some exploring. I didn't try it but I think I can even use the text input as source from the first level. Dwight From cb at mythtech.net Tue Jul 22 11:28:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: Plustek scanner manuals Message-ID: Anyone want the manuals from a pair of Plustek scanners? These are from a pair of sheet feed scanners that I tossed a while back. I lacked the interface card for them, and couldn't find one, nor a taker for the scanners, so they went into the trash. I now have the two manuals from them. I also have a single floppy disk marked Scanner Utility that is in the bag with one of the manuals. Anyone want them before they get tossed as well (although now that I can scan manuals, they will get split in two, scanned, THEN tossed. And the disk will be imaged and archived... but before I ruin the manuals by cutting them down the spine, I want to make sure no one wants them intact) -chris From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Jul 22 11:30:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: help! shugart 801 Message-ID: <200307221626.JAA03172@clulw009.amd.com> >From: Joe > > I have several systems that use Shugart 800-1 SS 8" disk drives. I've >got several defective drives plus I've been wanting some spares. Last week >I picked up 10 Shugart model 801 SS drives. Today I tried to use them on >the same systems but I can't make them work. I've set all the jumpers and >straps exactly the same as in the 800-1 drives but the 801s aren't working. >The system knows the drive is there and detects the disk being in place and >rotating and that the drive door closed but the drive never gets the head >load signal. I'm using the same system, cables, power supply, etc with both >drives so the only difference is the drives themselves. I've tried a couple >of 801s and gotten exactly the same results with all of them so I don't >think that it due to a drive failure. Anybody have any experience with >these or have a good idea of what's wrong? > > Joe > Hi Joe You do know that some of the drives have data separators. I forget which numbers have this and which don't. I don't recall if the 800-1's had them or not. If you are using these for M2FM, is seems that I remember that the bandwidth was slightly increase on these drives. As I recall, there was a capacitor change in the pre-amps. Those are the only things I can think of. Dwight From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jul 22 12:09:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: FS: RARE black Bell & Howell Apple ][ Plus with drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Jason McBrien wrote: > Does anyone know how "rare" these things really are? I've got one laying > around somewheres. Works too, but there's a hole drilled into the side so > it's not exactly museum quality. Not very. Perhaps "uncommon", but just so. They were made in the thousands, perhaps tens of thousands. If you go to enough school garage sales you may just come across a stack or pallet of them. No, I don't have one. I've never even seen one in person (I don't think). But they're not rare. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From wrljet at yahoo.com Tue Jul 22 12:14:00 2003 From: wrljet at yahoo.com (Bill Lewis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: DEC AD0L-A In-Reply-To: <20030722170001.77832.93568.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030722171053.37871.qmail@web13602.mail.yahoo.com> Does anyone know what a DEC AD0L-A is? Looks like some sort of A/D equipment. Mounting panel holds a number cards and has a small power supply near one end. Cards present (looks like a bunch are missing, from the amount of wiring on the backplane) are: A220 A708 A862 bipolar high speed A/C convertor G701 M100 M111 invertors M161 binary to octal convertor M216 flip-flops M602 pulse generator M636 Anybody know what the mystery cards are? Thanks, Bill From wrljet at yahoo.com Tue Jul 22 12:16:00 2003 From: wrljet at yahoo.com (Bill Lewis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: PDP-8/I EAE drawings Message-ID: <20030722171232.22704.qmail@web13601.mail.yahoo.com> Does anyone know if drawings for the PDP-8/I EAE option are scanned and on the web someplace? Bill From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Jul 22 12:16:17 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: FS: RARE black Bell & Howell Apple ][ Plus with drives References: Message-ID: <006d01c35074$6917c620$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I agree with Sellam (get the record books out) *grin* I keep seeing them listed on ebay as "K-RAD K00L RAAAARE Black Bell & Howell Apple"... sheesh... while I do not have one, I have seen lots and lots of them both in the wild and in collectors hands. They don't seem particularly rare to me. Jay West From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Jul 22 12:39:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: scanning booklets for archive Message-ID: > I finally have a scanning system setup here for archiving documents. On a tangentially related note, we've just started an effort at the VC Forum to track scanned documents. Think of it as an index to available online documents of interest to vintage computer collectors. It's just in its infancy, but I think it's a great idea and I hope we have success with it. The thread at http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/viewtopic.php? t=241 covers my interpretation of the effort. I'm sure it will evolve somewhat over time. Please feel free to drop by and comment or help out! Thanks, Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jul 22 12:49:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: FS: RARE black Bell & Howell Apple ][ Plus with drives In-Reply-To: <006d01c35074$6917c620$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <006d01c35074$6917c620$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20030722103933.D29982@newshell.lmi.net> > I agree with Sellam (get the record books out) *grin* > I keep seeing them listed on ebay as "K-RAD K00L RAAAARE Black Bell & Howell > Apple"... sheesh... while I do not have one, I have seen lots and lots of them > both in the wild and in collectors hands. They don't seem particularly rare to > me. Yep. The schools were saturated with them. Besides a couple of trivial differences to help them withstand classroom abuse, there was an issue of purchasing. Hell & Bowell was an existing line item on every years budget (for AV stuff), so ordering anything from B&H was trivially easy, whereas ordering a "COMPUTER!" had to go through permission from "district data processing" AND "purchasing" had never heard of, and didn't want to do business with some "tiny" startup named after a fruit. Ordering IBM was easier with "purchasing", but still incurred the obstacles with "district data processing". Ordering a black apple was easy. just sneak it through in the AV budget. From karlpaul36 at hotmail.com Tue Jul 22 13:35:01 2003 From: karlpaul36 at hotmail.com (Karl Paul) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 Message-ID: I have DOS 1.1, in fact I have ALL of the IBM/PC DOS versions but for a complete 1.0. Karl Message: 35 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 06:43:16 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org From: Joe Subject: RE: dos 1.0 Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org I have one that I'll sell at an outragous price :-) Mine even has thet "rare" sticker on it that says "Version 1.1" and comes equiped with the "rare" DOS 1.1 disks. Joe At 11:13 PM 7/21/03 -0500, you wrote: >This one shows up on e-Bay from time to time, but at outrageous prices... >-sigh- > >Cheers... > >Ed Tillman >Store Automation Tech Support Specialist > Valero Energy Corporation >San Antonio, Texas, USA >Office: (210)592-3110, Fax (210)592-2048 >Email: edward.tillman@valero.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Karl Paul [mailto:karlpaul36@hotmail.com] > >I'm looking for the dos 1.0 manual and binder. I have the disk and nothing >else. Anyone out there have a manual and binder they would like to sell? > >Karl _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Jul 22 13:38:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: FS: RARE black Bell & Howell Apple ][ Plus with drives Message-ID: <200307221833.LAA03454@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Jay West" > >I agree with Sellam (get the record books out) *grin* > >I keep seeing them listed on ebay as "K-RAD K00L RAAAARE Black Bell & Howell >Apple"... sheesh... while I do not have one, I have seen lots and lots of them >both in the wild and in collectors hands. They don't seem particularly rare to >me. > >Jay West > Hi Rare and valuable are two different things. I have some rare computers that many would just grunt at if they saw them for sale at some swap meet. Things like Apple-1's have significant history as well as being rare. This enhances value ( way beyond any reasonable level ). Still, if you are one of those that is making a complete set of a particular type of machine, tracking down the unusual ones can be an issue. Just don't tell the seller he has something you really, REALLY, need. Some Beany Babies are quite rare. I wouldn't give you 10 cents for any of them. Some computers are quite rare. You'd have to pay me to take some of them away. Some rare machines are interesting because they are unusual. Others have no special attributes like some of the Cromemco S-100 work horses. There must be hundreds of variations of these, making each rare. They are still fine machines and worth saving but they have no special monetary value even though rare. Dwight From CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL Tue Jul 22 15:59:00 2003 From: CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL (Corda Albert J DLVA) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: Dec RA60 Drives and HSC40 Controller... worth rescuing? Message-ID: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16DAE@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> Hey guys, I just ran across a couple of DEC RA60 (removable pack) drives and a HSC40 controller at a local dealer. They know _nothing_ about this stuff, save that it's _heavy_. I was able to find some docs on the controller, but nothing on the drives. As I recently acquired a VAX6630, I am considering latching onto the HSC40, but am vacillating on the drives... they _are_ heavy, and the dealer has no disk packs unless, god forbid, they are still in the drives 8-( ... I need to go back sometime this week and open 'em up for a look-see. Not being familiar with the RA60, and being unable to find any docs on-line, I have no idea how to open these up... does anyone have any experience with these critters? Can they be opened without power (i.e. is the top door locked with a solenoid?) I found a usenet post that indicated how to lock the heads, but I would be greatful for any info/insights on how to open the drives, things to watch out for when moving 'em, what to look for to indicate damage, etc... BTW how susceptable are they to damage if moved with the packs in them? (I _would not_ do this myself, but I know that they were not handled gently by the folks who sold them to the dealer... probably dropped off the back of a U-haul or something equally gentle. They apparently came from an unclamed storage lockup) Also, in the overall scheme of things, are these even worth saving? I have no idea where to get disk packs for them (I do have some 5-platter packs from CDC, model 9877, 877 and 877-51... would these possibly work? was there some sort of disk-pack standard?) Normally, I would not hesitate, but my collection is starting to get out of hand, and I have to start limiting myself...eventually ;-) -al- -acorda@1bigred.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jul 22 16:02:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: help! shugart 801 In-Reply-To: <200307221626.JAA03172@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030722165556.3c3f273c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:26 AM 7/22/03 -0700, you wrote: >>From: Joe >> >> I have several systems that use Shugart 800-1 SS 8" disk drives. I've >>got several defective drives plus I've been wanting some spares. Last week >>I picked up 10 Shugart model 801 SS drives. Today I tried to use them on >>the same systems but I can't make them work. I've set all the jumpers and >>straps exactly the same as in the 800-1 drives but the 801s aren't working. >>The system knows the drive is there and detects the disk being in place and >>rotating and that the drive door closed but the drive never gets the head >>load signal. I'm using the same system, cables, power supply, etc with both >>drives so the only difference is the drives themselves. I've tried a couple >>of 801s and gotten exactly the same results with all of them so I don't >>think that it due to a drive failure. Anybody have any experience with >>these or have a good idea of what's wrong? >> >> Joe >> > > >Hi Joe > You do know that some of the drives have data separators. >I forget which numbers have this and which don't. I don't recall >if the 800-1's had them or not. If you are using these for >M2FM, is seems that I remember that the bandwidth was slightly >increase on these drives. As I recall, there was a capacitor >change in the pre-amps. > Those are the only things I can think of. >Dwight > You may be right but the head isn't even loading so I'm not even getting that far. I have a Shugart 800/801 manual but it's vague about the differences between the two. But IIRC the 801 is designed to handle hard sectored disk and the 800 doesn't. I'm wondering if the index pulse detection circuit is different and may be causing a not ready condition or something similar. (Yes I know I can check it with a logic probe but I didn't have one where the machines are located so I havne't done that yet.) Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jul 22 16:02:12 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030722170022.3c3f2830@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> If you have a DOS 1.1 manual then you have a DOS 1.0 manual. I've had and seen several DOS 1.0 and 1.1 packages and the only difference between the manuals was that the DOS 1.1 manuals had a paper sticker on them that said "DOS 1.1". Even the part number on them was the same. Joe At 01:31 PM 7/22/03 -0500, you wrote: >I have DOS 1.1, in fact I have ALL of the IBM/PC DOS versions but for a >complete 1.0. > >Karl > >Message: 35 >Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 06:43:16 >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >From: Joe >Subject: RE: dos 1.0 >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > I have one that I'll sell at an outragous price :-) Mine even has thet >"rare" sticker on it that says "Version 1.1" and comes equiped with the >"rare" DOS 1.1 disks. > > > Joe > >At 11:13 PM 7/21/03 -0500, you wrote: >>This one shows up on e-Bay from time to time, but at outrageous prices... >>-sigh- >> >>Cheers... >> >>Ed Tillman >>Store Automation Tech Support Specialist >> Valero Energy Corporation >>San Antonio, Texas, USA >>Office: (210)592-3110, Fax (210)592-2048 >>Email: edward.tillman@valero.com >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Karl Paul [mailto:karlpaul36@hotmail.com] >> >>I'm looking for the dos 1.0 manual and binder. I have the disk and nothing >>else. Anyone out there have a manual and binder they would like to sell? >> >>Karl > >_________________________________________________________________ >STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Jul 22 16:36:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: help! shugart 801 Message-ID: <200307222132.OAA03607@clulw009.amd.com> >From: Joe > >At 09:26 AM 7/22/03 -0700, you wrote: >>>From: Joe >>> >>> I have several systems that use Shugart 800-1 SS 8" disk drives. I've >>>got several defective drives plus I've been wanting some spares. Last week >>>I picked up 10 Shugart model 801 SS drives. Today I tried to use them on >>>the same systems but I can't make them work. I've set all the jumpers and >>>straps exactly the same as in the 800-1 drives but the 801s aren't working. >>>The system knows the drive is there and detects the disk being in place and >>>rotating and that the drive door closed but the drive never gets the head >>>load signal. I'm using the same system, cables, power supply, etc with both >>>drives so the only difference is the drives themselves. I've tried a couple >>>of 801s and gotten exactly the same results with all of them so I don't >>>think that it due to a drive failure. Anybody have any experience with >>>these or have a good idea of what's wrong? >>> >>> Joe >>> >> >> >>Hi Joe >> You do know that some of the drives have data separators. >>I forget which numbers have this and which don't. I don't recall >>if the 800-1's had them or not. If you are using these for >>M2FM, is seems that I remember that the bandwidth was slightly >>increase on these drives. As I recall, there was a capacitor >>change in the pre-amps. >> Those are the only things I can think of. >>Dwight >> > > You may be right but the head isn't even loading so I'm not even getting >that far. I have a Shugart 800/801 manual but it's vague about the >differences between the two. But IIRC the 801 is designed to handle hard >sectored disk and the 800 doesn't. I'm wondering if the index pulse >detection circuit is different and may be causing a not ready condition or >something similar. (Yes I know I can check it with a logic probe but I >didn't have one where the machines are located so I havne't done that yet.) > > Joe > Hi Joe I missed that about the head not loading. Is the drive getting a head load signal or is the controller waiting for some status line from the drive? That would be the first place to look. There may be slight differences in the gating of these signals at the drive. I wouldn't think that the index pulse would cause troubles but you never know. On either drive, you should see index pulses. I'd have to dig out my manual to be able to help any more than that. Dwight From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 22 17:58:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: help! shugart 801 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030722165556.3c3f273c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Jul 22, 3 04:55:56 pm Message-ID: > You may be right but the head isn't even loading so I'm not even getting > that far. I have a Shugart 800/801 manual but it's vague about the > differences between the two. But IIRC the 801 is designed to handle hard > sectored disk and the 800 doesn't. I'm wondering if the index pulse > detection circuit is different and may be causing a not ready condition or > something similar. (Yes I know I can check it with a logic probe but I I think you might well be on the right track. IIRC, the 'ready' signal only goes active after the index signal has behaved correctly (indicating there is a good disk, rotating correctly, in the drive). It's possible that if the drive is set for hard sector operation and you've loaded a soft-sector disk, then the drive will never go ready. According to the scheamtics, there's a pair of jumpers labeled '800' and '801' on older versions of the main PCB. Later versions (with a 40 pin ASIC) have a single 3 pin jumper with the 2 positions labelled '800' and '801'. This is confusing, you _don't_ set the jumper to '801' if you have an '801' drive. Rather, '800' means soft-sectored (and disables the hard-sector circuitry, which is only present in 801 model drives), '801' means hard-sectored. I'd check the position of this jumper. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 22 17:59:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: Technical Magic 8S ? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030721225116.3c3729be@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Jul 21, 3 10:51:16 pm Message-ID: > Anybody familar with a "Technical magic 8S" card? I found several of > them in a DEC system. They're double width cards and have eight AMI S1602P > LSI ICs on them. Chip Directory says that the 1602s are UARTs. Presunmmbly it's an 8 channel serial card (the name '8S' would also suggest this). It'll either be an octal DLV11 (Systime certainly made a Unibus octal DL11) or an 8 channel version of the DZV11. The former would have all 8 ports at distinct addresses, the latter is what DEC call a 'multiplexer' and has all 8 ports sharing a relatively small number of addresses. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 22 17:59:12 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: scanning booklets for archive In-Reply-To: from "chris" at Jul 22, 3 11:47:07 am Message-ID: > I finally have a scanning system setup here for archiving documents. > > Does anyone have a good idea of how to deal with booklets? That is, items > that are printed on 8.5x11 paper, then folded over and stapled. RIght > now, I have been opening the booklet to the center, removing the > paperclip, then cutting the booklet in half down the spine, and scanning Why cut them in half? When I needed to copy some booklets like this, I pulled out the staples, then took each sheet and folded it back in half. I then scanned/copied each side of that, folded it back the other way and scanned/copied the 2 sides of it in that configuration (this got copies of all 4 booklet-pages that made up a single sheet). After I'd done all the pages, I put them back in the right order and put the (original) staples back in. Of course you'd ahve to re-shuffle the scans in software to get the pages in the right order, but I assume this is not hard to do. -tony From donm at cts.com Tue Jul 22 18:14:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: help! shugart 801 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030722165556.3c3f273c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Joe wrote: > At 09:26 AM 7/22/03 -0700, you wrote: > >>From: Joe > >> > >> I have several systems that use Shugart 800-1 SS 8" disk drives. I've > >>got several defective drives plus I've been wanting some spares. Last week > >>I picked up 10 Shugart model 801 SS drives. Today I tried to use them on > >>the same systems but I can't make them work. I've set all the jumpers and > >>straps exactly the same as in the 800-1 drives but the 801s aren't working. > >>The system knows the drive is there and detects the disk being in place and > >>rotating and that the drive door closed but the drive never gets the head > >>load signal. I'm using the same system, cables, power supply, etc with both > >>drives so the only difference is the drives themselves. I've tried a couple > >>of 801s and gotten exactly the same results with all of them so I don't > >>think that it due to a drive failure. Anybody have any experience with > >>these or have a good idea of what's wrong? > >> > >> Joe > >> > > > > > >Hi Joe > > You do know that some of the drives have data separators. > >I forget which numbers have this and which don't. I don't recall > >if the 800-1's had them or not. If you are using these for > >M2FM, is seems that I remember that the bandwidth was slightly > >increase on these drives. As I recall, there was a capacitor > >change in the pre-amps. > > Those are the only things I can think of. > >Dwight > > > > You may be right but the head isn't even loading so I'm not even getting > that far. I have a Shugart 800/801 manual but it's vague about the > differences between the two. But IIRC the 801 is designed to handle hard > sectored disk and the 800 doesn't. I'm wondering if the index pulse > detection circuit is different and may be causing a not ready condition or > something similar. (Yes I know I can check it with a logic probe but I > didn't have one where the machines are located so I havne't done that yet.) > > Joe Joe, the 800 series OEM manual has a brief table entitled Model Differences. It is copied below: 800-1 Soft Sectored with an FM (single density) data separator. 800-2 Spft Sectored without data separator. 800-4 Mechanics only (No PCB) 801 Hard Sectored with an FM (single density) data separator and sector separator. NOTE: To convert a 801 to a 800 move the shorting plug from the 801 position to the 800 position. A 800 cannot be converted to a 801. - don From jwest at kwcorp.com Tue Jul 22 18:34:00 2003 From: jwest at kwcorp.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: looking for...... Message-ID: <015101c34fbc$6321a0a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> HP 9122D floppy drive unit Anyone have one they're willing to trade? Jay West From nico at farumdata.dk Tue Jul 22 18:34:41 2003 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: 8-inch disk drives References: <20030715141324.7071.qmail@jaydemail.com> <20030717093320.K81976@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <001901c34fbc$4f255b00$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> From: "Fred Cisin" To: Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 6:39 PM Subject: [Spam][95.7%] Re: 8-inch disk drives On Tue, 15 Jul 2003, Jo Cooley wrote: > Hi, > I'm new to the list and am currently trying to find a solution to > transfering data/software from 8-inch disks to a pc. > We have a working minc-II with two floppy drives. The console is gone > but I currently have an old 386 hooked up to act as a terminal. > What would be the best way to transfer the info from the old disks to the > 'newer' pc? > One suggestion was to get an old 8-inch floppy drive and hook it directly > to the pc, but it seems to me that would involve possible building a > hardware interface and writing driver software. > Any suggestions or pointers to web pages would be very welcome, I've > already spent a few hours searching the web without finding a solution. That depends on if you want to tinker yourself or want someone to do it. I have used a MicroSolutions floppy controller for a project, where I had to be able to read each and every sector (128 bytes up to 1024 bytes) from an 8" disk (SSSD to DSDD). It was suggested, that you could use PC controllers for 1.2 meg disks for the job, but this is not the case, as they will only recognize 512 byte sectors and only DOS file systems. You can do a Google search on "media conversion", which gives many hits. You could also take a look at www.farumdata.dk/enindex.htm if you want to explore the possibilities i can offer in our servicebureau. Who many disks are we talking about ? Nico From root at parse.com Tue Jul 22 18:34:53 2003 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: Recently scanned PDP-8/I schematics available In-Reply-To: <3F16D1CE.2010701@pacbell.net> from "Jim Battle" at Jul 17, 2003 09:41:50 AM Message-ID: <200307212056.QAA27845@parse.com> Jim Battle sez... > > Robert Krten wrote: > > Recent scans of my collection of 17"x22" PDP-8/I schematics are now > > available; many are different (newer) revision than others available > > on the web. > > > > http://www.parse.com/~pdp8/pdp8i/drawings.html > > > > There's a tarball so you can download the whole thing (11 Megs). > > > > Spozedly, these are 400 DPI scans, so they should be pretty reasonable > > quality. > > Robert -- > > I recently did a number of large format schematics at 600 dpi, but my > file sizes were smaller that yours. So I downloaded one of yours and > took a good look. The scanning was done with halftoning turned on, so > all of your lines and characters are "fuzzy" -- an attempt to reproduce > greyscale at 1bpp. You should have turned off the halftoning and your > file size would be much smaller. Ok, I'll keep that in mind for next time -- I didn't do the scanning, a local copy shop did... Cheers, -RK -- Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! From holmberg at tiac.net Tue Jul 22 18:35:06 2003 From: holmberg at tiac.net (holmberg@tiac.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: Decwriter II available Message-ID: <3F1C34BF.32646.6D8DC81@localhost> Hi, I have a Decwriter II that I want to pass along to whoever is willing to pick it up (my home is in North Andover, MA). This Decwriter II hasn't been used for years. This is a relatively heavy impact printer with a keyboard, on a metal stand, that takes wide continuous folded paper. It worked when I last used it, but has been sitting in the basement for a long time - no guarantees. There is a (headset) modem that goes with it. If there are no takers, I may have to junk it. However, if it is of use for anyone, I'd rather give it away. I'm not a member of this list, so please respond directly to me ASAP if there is any interest. Thanks, Carl holmberg at tiac dot net From bill at timeguy.com Tue Jul 22 18:35:19 2003 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: OT - Geek Destinations in Kansas City? Message-ID: <20030721134413.Q41446-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> We'll be in Kansas City over a weekend in the near future. Are there any good surplus stores, museums, geek toy stores, etc, that we should be sure to visit? Suggestions appreciated! From TMcNerney at chipwrights.com Tue Jul 22 18:35:31 2003 From: TMcNerney at chipwrights.com (McNerney, Tim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: Digi-Comp I re-issue viability; recent auctions; friendsofdigicom p Message-ID: <93A4BBB9515ED411AE9D00508BD955A559D965@intranet> On the topic of the viability of a Digi-Comp I re-issue... In the past three months, two kits have been put up for auction on eBay. One fetched over $421.50. Most recently, an usassembled kit went for $148.50 after 22 bids by 10 distinct bidders. I personally have always wished for a "version 2," with tighter tolerances, smoother action, and perhaps even 4 "flip-flops" instead of the standard 3. Brass or aluminum instead of plastic would add an especially nice touch. After all, who's wife is going to let her husband display a plastic computer in the living room? On the other hand, a nice polished brass model in a glass case... FYI, there is a YahooGroups group named "friendsofdigicomp" with 178 members. Oh, right.... So why am I posting to the Classic Computing mailing list? Because a ClassicCmp member wrote me to say: "One person I know has taken molds from his example and is planng on re-issuing it as a kit." Whoever you are, I thought you'd be interested in the present supply-and-demand situation. A limited run of 100 at $50 a piece would probably sell-out without too much effort. My impression is that the vast majority of the friendsofdigicomp group members -don't- have one anymore. (Mine got thrown away when we moved in 1971...) Regards, --Tim McNerney Newton, MA Postscripts... Recently someone submitted a schematic of the Digi-Comp I electronic equivalent to friendsofdigicomp. I believe you need to join the group to view this: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/friendsofdigicomp/files/DC1-PLA.pdf BTW, I have DXF format CAD models of all the plastic parts, but only in 2D. There are scans of the plastic parts and manuals at the YahooGroups site. From DBaker at crt.xerox.com Tue Jul 22 18:35:43 2003 From: DBaker at crt.xerox.com (Baker, David B) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: 6085 Message-ID: hello, i was wondering if you ever got rid of your xerox 6085 & printer? =dave= From george at rachors.com Tue Jul 22 18:35:56 2003 From: george at rachors.com (George Leo Rachor Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Greetings Sellam, Our cube has been running for a long time. Are we just lucky or was there a specific problem that we ought to know about? George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, George Leo Rachor Jr. wrote: > > > Then I bought a G4 Cube just for the novelty and love it. It's quiet > > fan-less design is an engineering masterpiece. It is too bad that Intel > > PC's just can't be that elegant (or afford to be)... > > It's also too bad that the system tends to overheat and self-destruct > because of fan-less design :( > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From sml49 at comcast.net Tue Jul 22 18:36:09 2003 From: sml49 at comcast.net (Seth Lewin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: Mac G5 / Moving to OS X In-Reply-To: <20030721224803.70384.66521.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: > Hi Seth, > > I'm curious if you bought those upgrades new, and what they cost? > > --tnx > --tom Tom.. The G3/800 was about $298. The Maxtor 200 was $199 after a rebate, the Acard controller around $86 and the Radeon 7000 another $105 and the Lite-On 526 around $40 over the counter locally so around $725 or so total. I had done this incrementally - I needed a larger faster drive long before I decided to go to OS X. And yes, to respond to another poster, the machine would indeed run OS X w/out all this and in fact it did for awhile but it wasn't as responsive as I'd have liked. I bought the Radeon - it's the fastest non-AGP one - with the idea that I would be able to move up at some point to a large digital LCD display; my old FD Trinitron is showing signs of age and I don't figure on buying any further CRT displays. This is my mainstream machine, the one I keep my digital life on so I pamper it; besides, I like it's blue front panel :-). Its FireWire ports are a little funky - all Blue G3's are reputed to have flaky FireWire - so a few years ago I put an Adaptec PCI FW card in there; found it on the discount table at the local Micro Center. There's also the dozen or so assorted older 68000 and early PPC Macs I have around here, most working and a handful of them online. My source of supply is the local town disposal area; very fruitful. Need a Iisi or two? A small to medium sized SCSI drive? I've got a few tubs full of 'em.. Seth > > At 04:30 PM 7/18/2003 -0400, you wrote: >>>> If your a current mac user the g5 WILL be alot faster then what you >>> have, >>>> if your an Intel user I dont see a rush to buy anything made by apple. >>> If >>>> your a unix geek you might want a G5 just to say you own one and make >>>> fellow geeks unworthy of your presence. >>> >>>> The funny thing is mac users who laugh at PC guys upgrading their >>> hardware >>>> every year are now doing the same thing, except its alot more costly >>> for >>>> them buying complete new machines while PC users just chuck the >>>> motherboard/ram/video card in their old rig. This upgrade cycle of >>>> hardware will eventually kill the mac market because only the very >>> rich >>>> can keep up. What percentage of mac owners are using OSX? What >>> percentage >>>> will upgrade to a current OSX running machine anytime soon? >> >> That's not quite the case. Macs have a considerably longer useful life than >> PCs, generally, and are indeed upgradeable. I just took my January 1999 >> model Blue G3/400 desktop, swapped the 8.5 GB Ultra2Wide SCSI disk subsystem >> for a fast 200 gig Maxtor and an ATA 133 card, slipped in an 800 mhz G3 CPU >> daughtercard and installed a Radeon 7000 instead of the OEM Rage 128 and a >> LiteOn 52x CDROM instead of the old Matushita 24x (I already have an >> external 1394 burner) and a Kensington 3-button Studio Mouse. Runs OS 10.26 >> like a charm. Sure a G5 would be faster but this setup handles a heavy duty >> OS10.26 without any strain, web pages render in a flash etc. Plus this one >> will still boot OS9 directly and I can use my old ADB keyboard of which I'm >> fond. I figure on getting a year or two more out of this machine by which >> time I may just buy a laptop and use the G3 for a file and web server. I >> would've LIKED a new machine, but didn't NEED one. Of the four households >> in this immediate family 3 are on OS X; only my 87 year old father in law >> doesn't want to upgrade his 1998 rev A iMac and install it. That's 75% >> penetration. Also the G3/400 daughtercard I removed is now installed in what >> was formerly a Beige G3/266 I keep at work as a scanning station. That >> leaves me with a spare ZIF G3/266 daughtercard. Anybody need one? >> >> Seth Lewin From GRAVEVAULTS at aol.com Tue Jul 22 18:36:22 2003 From: GRAVEVAULTS at aol.com (GRAVEVAULTS@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <6e.30401112.2c4e1a39@aol.com> Mr. Morton, I seen online that you were in need of the system operation disk for the 630 memorywriter by Xerox. I can get you a copy of each if you get back in touch with me. Adrian Stokes From Oliver.Riegel at mbtech-group.com Tue Jul 22 18:36:35 2003 From: Oliver.Riegel at mbtech-group.com (Oliver.Riegel@mbtech-group.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:57 2005 Subject: uA78MGU1C Message-ID: <0057440009524914000002L442*@MHS> Hi Toth, I saw your demand for any Parts of the uA78MGU1C. I have a few of them. 10 or 20 pieces. Are you interessted ? Keep in touch Oliver Your Demand from Thu Dec 19 08:04:13 2002 I've been looking for a replacement uA79MG negative voltage regulator for awhile, but so far haven't been able to find one. It is for a custom power supply for an embedded system made in the early 1980s. Fairchild's part number for the device is uA79MGU1C, which they call a 'Power Watt' package. It actually looks like a TO-220, but has 4 leads. The regulator bolts to a heat sink on the supply's board. I need at least one of these parts, but could use a spare or two if someone has a bunch hiding away in their parts cabinet. I could also use a couple spare uA78MG (uA78MGU1C) regulators too, but they would just be put away as spares for these power supplies. -Toth From bill at timeguy.com Tue Jul 22 18:36:48 2003 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: Token ring (UK) In-Reply-To: <001b01c35015$77de52a0$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: <20030722091706.L41446-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> We've got a bunch of it at work, too. Probably 200 cards (mixed ISA & PCI), several Madge "Smart" CAUs, LAMs, and RAMs, and a boatload of patch cables, pigtails, and patch panels for IBM Type 1 cabling (STP). Anybody know where we could unload it and maybe get a few bucks for it? At least enough to cover shipping it? On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Andy Holt wrote: > Am clearing out my garage to make space for a PDP 11/34. > Is there any interest at all in a fair-sized pile of token ring stuff - some > 4MHz, some 4/16MHz (cards [inc unused PCMCIA], cables, MAUs etc) or should > it all go to the dump. > eBay prices appear to be too low to be worth the bother. > I suspect that thge only people who might be interested in collecting TR > have already been able to pick up as much as they want. > > This is in Rayleigh, Essex (England) > > Andy From bill at timeguy.com Tue Jul 22 18:37:01 2003 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: Token ring (UK) In-Reply-To: <2368.65.123.179.144.1058853265.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Message-ID: <20030722091921.V41446-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 ghldbrd@ccp.com wrote: > I have a box full of token-ring adapters, IBM new in the box, and can't > find a nibble here in the States. I've been told that token ring > netowrking is an IBM only system, and requies an IBM server to play. Token-Ring seems to have originated with IBM, but it's not true that you need an IBM server. We used to use it with HP, IBM, Compaq, and some home-grown boxes. There were several 3rd-party manufacturers of token-ring equipment, but I think about the only one left these days is Madge (www.madge.com) and they're moving rapidly to ethernet... From ernestls at comcast.net Tue Jul 22 18:37:14 2003 From: ernestls at comcast.net (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: Looking for an S-100 system Message-ID: I am interested in acquiring an S-100 CP/M system and I'm hoping that someone here might have one that they might sell or trade to me. I've never had an S100 type computer but I've always passively wanted one to tinker with. I don't have a particular make or model in mind but I have a general idea of what I'm looking for. Basically, I'm looking for one that I won't be afraid to work on, like an Altair or some other very rare or valuable old computer. An example that I was thinking of was a Northstar Horizon, since it's not rare, has floppy drives, and it follows the standard s100 bus architecture (I think.) The Vector Graphic Vector 1 is another system that seems to be fairly simple in design but I'm not sure how rare/expensive they are. I don't want to spend a fortune, and I'm not looking for anything highly collectable -just something simple and ordinary that I can work on and play with, and repair if something breaks. Thanks, E From ernestls at comcast.net Tue Jul 22 18:37:27 2003 From: ernestls at comcast.net (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: FS: RARE black Bell & Howell Apple ][ Plus with drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Jason McBrien > Does anyone know how "rare" these things really are? I've got one laying > around somewheres. Works too, but there's a hole drilled into the side so > it's not exactly museum quality. Well, they don't seem to be extremely rare but they aren't always easy to find. I think the ebay prices are a little inflated but people seem to be willing to spend $300 to $400 dollars for them on a consistant basis. I have one, and several people I know locally have them, so my experience has been that they aren't very rare at all -just expensive. From mec at 012.net.il Tue Jul 22 18:37:41 2003 From: mec at 012.net.il (Hanan Friedman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: Panasonic KXP4400 Laser Printer Message-ID: Hello Hello Phil, I have the same drum problem. I appreciate very much if you could help me on advise of how to put the printer into Service Mode and reset the page counter to 00000 Thanks, Hanan Friedman From philip at awale.qc.ca Tue Jul 22 18:37:55 2003 From: philip at awale.qc.ca (philip@awale.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: IBM Displaywriter In-Reply-To: <200307191901150060.013FF21E@mail.gardnerbusiness.com> Message-ID: On 20-Jul-2003 Arthur S. Gardner wrote: > Lawrence Walker, > > I would like to purchase an IBM Displaywriter. > > Can you help? I have an IBM Displaywriter I'm looking to get rid of! The thing is helluva heavy, and in southern QC. So shipping would be non-trivial. I have no idea if it works or not. Comes with a pile of 8 inch disks also. -Philip From luv2craftca at jaydemail.com Tue Jul 22 18:38:09 2003 From: luv2craftca at jaydemail.com (Jo Cooley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: 8-inch disk drives Message-ID: <20030722174655.13832.qmail@jaydemail.com> Thanks everyone for your very helpful suggestions.  We had originally planned to do the transfer via serial cable but someone suggested the hardware solution, which sounded interesting, but obviously would require more work. We are looking into the kermit solution.  If that fails then we will be looking at logging data displayed on the monitor. Jo -- _______________________________________________ Another FREE service from Jayde Online http://www.jayde.com Private, Web-based email accounts at http://www.jaydemail.com Powered by Outblaze From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Jul 22 18:51:00 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: OT - Geek Destinations in Kansas City? In-Reply-To: <20030721134413.Q41446-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> References: <20030721134413.Q41446-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <1278.65.123.179.114.1058917231.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> > We'll be in Kansas City over a weekend in the near future. Are there any > good surplus stores, museums, geek toy stores, etc, that we should be sure > to visit? Suggestions appreciated! Only one place left for serious scrounging and that's Surplus Exchange, 1100 Hickory, down in the West Bottoms. There's Computer Garage, but he doesn't have much old stuff. Computer Swap Shop on Johnson Drive in Mission has a bit more, but he's been cleaning out the non-moving merchandise. If you like new (and can handle the pricetag) Micro Center on 90th and Metcalf in Overland Park KS is nice to wander through. Very good selection of computer books, some are even on sale. Beyond Bytes on 40 Highway near MO 291/I-670 has a very small selection, not really worth going to unless you're looking for something to buy that day. His Will Computer Surplus on 23rd in Independence has a lot of wall warts, if you need one. A smattering of other things, and a nice selection of PC cases. T-t-t-t-that's all f-f-f-f-folks, Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jul 22 18:52:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: looking for...... In-Reply-To: from "Jay West" at Jul 21, 2003 02:15:02 PM Message-ID: <200307222348.h6MNmwRC031252@shell1.aracnet.com> > HP 9122D floppy drive unit > > Anyone have one they're willing to trade? > > Jay West > Maybe, what exactly is it? Is it by chance an 8" drive with an HPIB Interface? Zane From bshannon at tiac.net Tue Jul 22 19:07:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: Data Systems Design DSD-880 8" floppy and hard drive? References: <3.0.6.16.20030717205309.3daf3460@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <010a01c34e66$3097a0a0$0200a8c0@cosmo> <3F1B30BB.B6D94BF9@compsys.to> <3F1C4F1C.1050604@tiac.net> <3F1CAEB1.E6DDE67D@compsys.to> Message-ID: <3F1DD0FF.6050803@tiac.net> Jerome H. Fine wrote: >>Bob Shannon wrote: >> > >>RT-11, the DSD boxes cannot use stock DEC drivers. >> > >Jerome Fine replies: > >I believe you are incorrect. The extra detail is as follows: > >The DSD boxes can use BOTH the hard drive (emulating >an RL01 for the 8 MByte hard drive or 3 * RL02 for >the 30 MByte hard drive) and the single 8" floppy drive >(emulating an RX02) with stock (distributed) device >drivers. I have done so with BOTH V4.00 and V5.03 >distributions of RT-11. > The DSD boxes I used do not emulate DEC drives, and made the 45 meg hard drive available as a single device. I have, err, well, Jay West has a DSD floppy-only (RX-02) emulation in his 11/34a out in my garage, and that does use the standard driver. I guess DSD had many varients, and we must be talking about different products. But the unibus version of the DSD interface for the floppy-hard drive combo's I've worked with all needed a DSD driver for RT-11. I ~think~ the DSD driver exists, on a LINC tape (Jay's got a Computer Operations LINC tape drive, which also uses a non-standard driver). For some time, that machine could not be upgraded to a newer version of RT-11 because the LINC tape driver would not assemble correctly under the newer version (I cannot, for the life of me recall which versions these were!). Something about an interrupt function call....sorry, its been too long, and I've forgotten the details. Anyway, all the 'funky' drivers and their source was saved on a LINC tape, which I loved using more than the newer version of RT-11. That 11/34a system has accumulated a strange set of peripherals saved from the decommissioning of a long series of very choice Unibus hardware, starting with a DEC Graphic 11/40, then an 11/T55, and an 11/60. I got rid of all of that, keeping only an 11/35 and the 11/34 due to size. Now only the 11/34 remains, and thats Jay's. Maybe once Jay actually gets this stuff, and gets it all put together, he will find a stack of odd drivers and their soruce code on one of the LINC tapes? From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Jul 22 19:24:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: looking for...... References: <200307222348.h6MNmwRC031252@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <000f01c350ae$2ea76600$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> It's a dual 3.5' floppy drive with an HP-IB interface. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 6:48 PM Subject: Re: looking for...... > > HP 9122D floppy drive unit > > > > Anyone have one they're willing to trade? > > > > Jay West > > > > Maybe, what exactly is it? Is it by chance an 8" drive with an HPIB > Interface? > > Zane From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Jul 22 19:25:03 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: looking for...... In-Reply-To: "Zane H. Healy"'s message of "Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:48:58 -0700 (PDT)" References: <200307222348.h6MNmwRC031252@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <200307230004.h6N04MNG066747@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Zane H. Healy wrote (after Jay West): > > HP 9122D floppy drive unit > > Maybe, what exactly is it? Is it by chance an 8" drive with an HPIB Dual 3.5" double-sided drive with HP-IB interface. -Frank McConnell From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jul 22 21:16:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: OT - Geek Destinations in Kansas City? In-Reply-To: <20030721134413.Q41446-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030722215012.3c2fd4f4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I went to KC last year and Gary Hildebrand and I went around to a bunch of local surplus computer places. The only good one IMO was in Topeka. I don't remember the name but Gary can tell you and give you directions. Joe At 01:46 PM 7/21/03 -0500, you wrote: >We'll be in Kansas City over a weekend in the near future. Are there any >good surplus stores, museums, geek toy stores, etc, that we should be sure >to visit? Suggestions appreciated! From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jul 22 21:18:08 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: looking for...... In-Reply-To: <200307222348.h6MNmwRC031252@shell1.aracnet.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030722215905.3a979f74@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:48 PM 7/22/03 -0700, you wrote: >> HP 9122D floppy drive unit >> >> Anyone have one they're willing to trade? >> >> Jay West >> > >Maybe, what exactly is it? Is it by chance an 8" drive with an HPIB >Interface? > > Zane > No, the 9122D is a 3.5" double sided floppy drive with two drives and a HP-IB interface. It uses the same drive as the HP Integral, HP 9133 and other combination drives. WARNING! be carefull with them. The HP DS drives have a tendency for the disk lifting mechanism to stick. Then the disk hits to top head and bents it's mounts or rips the head off. If you have one make sure that it opens fully! If it doesn't then don't try to remove or install a disk or you WILL damage the head. You can take the drive out and clean the old greaase off of it and regreae it with a GOOD Qualtiy grease and it will work fine. The 8" drive with the HP-IB interface is a HP 9895. The older 8" drive with the parallel inteface is a HP 9885. FWIW some systems recognize the 9122 as being a 9895! Joe From nedry at mail.bedlambells.com Tue Jul 22 21:28:57 2003 From: nedry at mail.bedlambells.com (nedry ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: Microchannel Ethernet Message-ID: <200307221740.AA32703036@mail.bedlambells.com> Don't need that... but, anyone got any microchannel ethernet cards? I have an IBM PS2/95 server, with only token ring. It's that or I have to build my own token ring segment. Kind of a drag... Thanks, Mark ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Bill Richman Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:19:02 -0500 (CDT) >We've got a bunch of it at work, too. Probably 200 cards (mixed ISA & >PCI), several Madge "Smart" CAUs, LAMs, and RAMs, and a boatload of patch.. From cb at mythtech.net Tue Jul 22 21:29:14 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: scanning booklets for archive Message-ID: >Why cut them in half? When I needed to copy some booklets like this, I >pulled out the staples, then took each sheet and folded it back in half. >I then scanned/copied each side of that, folded it back the other way and >scanned/copied the 2 sides of it in that configuration (this got copies >of all 4 booklet-pages that made up a single sheet). After I'd done all >the pages, I put them back in the right order and put the (original) >staples back in. This is a valid approach for things that are important... but it is FAR more time consuming then my current method. By cutting them in half I can load them into the sheet feeder and do the entire first half of the book (I tell Acrobat I'm scanning dual sided pages, it scans all the first sides, then prompts me to put them back in and scan the back sides, then it puts them all in order for me... I repeat the process with the back half of the book, and when I am done, everything is in order and I've had very little user interaction with it). So really, cutting them in half is just a huge time saver. If I do the folding method, I have to scan them all way out of order and worry about putting them all back into order. Certainly valid and worth the time for things I want to not destroy. But not worth it for things that are being thrown out right after scanning. -chris From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jul 22 21:29:28 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030722170022.3c3f2830@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030722170022.3c3f2830@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030722185833.Q37868@newshell.lmi.net> On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Joe wrote: > If you have a DOS 1.1 manual then you have a DOS 1.0 manual. I've had and > seen several DOS 1.0 and 1.1 packages and the only difference between the > manuals was that the DOS 1.1 manuals had a paper sticker on them that said > "DOS 1.1". Even the part number on them was the same. Almost. There were a few trivial differences. For example, the documentation for FORMAT mentioned a /1 option (single side) with 1.10, but NOT in the original 1.0. (1.1 added support for double sided disks) There weren't MANY diffferences, and it could well be argued that none of them were very "important", but there were differences. From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Tue Jul 22 21:30:00 2003 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: Data Systems Design DSD-880 8" floppy and hard drive? References: <3.0.6.16.20030717205309.3daf3460@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <010a01c34e66$3097a0a0$0200a8c0@cosmo> <3F1B30BB.B6D94BF9@compsys.to> <3F1C4F1C.1050604@tiac.net> <3F1CAEB1.E6DDE67D@compsys.to> <3F1DD0FF.6050803@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3F1DF0AE.1B493126@compsys.to> >Bob Shannon wrote: > The DSD boxes I used do not emulate DEC drives, and made the 45 meg hard > drive > available as a single device. Jerome Fine replies: As far as I know, the DSD 880/8 and the DSD 880/30 all used only a Qbus controller. And they accepted the standard DEC device drivers in RT-11. There may have been other DSD boxes in addition the the DSD 880 and DSD 440, but I had not heard about them, let alone the details. > I have, err, well, Jay West has a DSD floppy-only (RX-02) emulation in > his 11/34a out > in my garage, and that does use the standard driver. That was the DSD 440 which emulated the RX02. For this drive, I used BOTH a Unibus controller on a PDP-11/34 and a Qbus controller on an LSI-11 within a VT103. What I found MOST amazing at the time (1979) was that the same RX02 floppy would BOOT on BOTH the Unibus and the Qbus systems even though the hardware was so different - especially the CPUs. RT-11 was able to self-configure on the fly to whichever hardware was present during the boot phase. > I guess DSD had many varients, and we must be talking about different > products. Seems like it. BUT the header stated DSD 880, so I went along with it. Any idea what the actual hardware was? > But the unibus version of the DSD interface for the floppy-hard drive > combo's I've > worked with all needed a DSD driver for RT-11. Again, was that a DSD 880/8? If so, DSD did provide a driver for the RL02 interface which normally used 10 MBytes to allow for the 8 MByte hard drive. I don't feel that this was a special DSD driver that was essential since the standard DL(X).SYS could be used with the DSD 880/8 to give a 5 MByte usage of the hard drive as an RL01 drive. That meant that 3 MBytes were lost to the user, but it would still work with the standard distributed DEC RT-11 device driver. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From vance at neurotica.com Tue Jul 22 21:30:14 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: Token ring (UK) In-Reply-To: <2368.65.123.179.144.1058853265.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 ghldbrd@ccp.com wrote: > I have a box full of token-ring adapters, IBM new in the box, and can't > find a nibble here in the States. I've been told that token ring > netowrking is an IBM only system, and requies an IBM server to play. Nosiree. Any PC, any RS/6000, really, any machine with PCI can do token ring. > Guess that's why everyone went to Ethernet. No, that was because of marketing stuff. 16Mbps TR is significantly faster than 10Mbps ethernet. It has a very large MTU/MRU. Peace... Sridhar > > Am clearing out my garage to make space for a PDP 11/34. > > Is there any interest at all in a fair-sized pile of token ring stuff - > > some > > 4MHz, some 4/16MHz (cards [inc unused PCMCIA], cables, MAUs etc) or should > > it all go to the dump. > > eBay prices appear to be too low to be worth the bother. > > I suspect that thge only people who might be interested in collecting TR > > have already been able to pick up as much as they want. > > > > This is in Rayleigh, Essex (England) > > > > Andy From thompson at new.rr.com Tue Jul 22 21:33:01 2003 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: Dec RA60 Drives and HSC40 Controller... worth rescuing? In-Reply-To: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16DAE@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Corda Albert J DLVA wrote: > Hey guys, > > I just ran across a couple of DEC RA60 (removable pack) drives > and a HSC40 controller at a local dealer. They know _nothing_ > about this stuff, save that it's _heavy_. > > Normally, I would not hesitate, but my collection is starting > to get out of hand, and I have to start limiting myself...eventually ;-) If this is the case, now might be the time to start limiting yourself. The HSC would need its bootable media, probably CRONIC on 5.25" floppies. You would need a CI card, cables and star coupler. (You did not say if you have these already) The RA60's are small capacity power eaters. You're probably better watching for a HSJx0 on ebay and running your cluster via scsi. From vance at neurotica.com Tue Jul 22 21:52:00 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: Token ring (UK) In-Reply-To: <20030722091921.V41446-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Bill Richman wrote: > > I have a box full of token-ring adapters, IBM new in the box, and > > can't find a nibble here in the States. I've been told that token > > ring netowrking is an IBM only system, and requies an IBM server to > > play. > > Token-Ring seems to have originated with IBM, but it's not true that you > need an IBM server. We used to use it with HP, IBM, Compaq, and some > home-grown boxes. There were several 3rd-party manufacturers of > token-ring equipment, but I think about the only one left these days is > Madge (www.madge.com) and they're moving rapidly to ethernet... What about Thomas-Conrad? Peace... Sridhar From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Jul 22 22:00:01 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: OT - Geek Destinations in Kansas City? In-Reply-To: <1278.65.123.179.114.1058917231.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Message-ID: <3AE43CC4-BCB9-11D7-9170-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Gary Is this all in Kansas City Kansas, or Missouri? :^) We will be moving soon, better buy the stuff you want before I get there! No -- only kidding. Ron Hudson. On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 04:40 PM, ghldbrd@ccp.com wrote: >> We'll be in Kansas City over a weekend in the near future. Are there >> any >> good surplus stores, museums, geek toy stores, etc, that we should be >> sure >> to visit? Suggestions appreciated! > > Only one place left for serious scrounging and that's Surplus Exchange, > 1100 Hickory, down in the West Bottoms. > > There's Computer Garage, but he doesn't have much old stuff. Computer > Swap Shop on Johnson Drive in Mission has a bit more, but he's been > cleaning out the non-moving merchandise. > > If you like new (and can handle the pricetag) Micro Center on 90th and > Metcalf in Overland Park KS is nice to wander through. Very good > selection of computer books, some are even on sale. > > Beyond Bytes on 40 Highway near MO 291/I-670 has a very small > selection, > not really worth going to unless you're looking for something to buy > that > day. > > His Will Computer Surplus on 23rd in Independence has a lot of wall > warts, > if you need one. A smattering of other things, and a nice selection > of PC > cases. > > T-t-t-t-that's all f-f-f-f-folks, > > Gary Hildebrand > St. Joseph, MO From n8uhn at yahoo.com Tue Jul 22 22:07:00 2003 From: n8uhn at yahoo.com (Bill Allen Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: help! shugart 801 Message-ID: <20030723030307.94794.qmail@web40704.mail.yahoo.com> Did you check the drives opto sensor's light path to make sure that no dust bunnies are blocking the path? i have an osi/macom that uses the same drives and after troubleshooting three good drives - i discovered that the drive interface card and 1 cpu had been pluged into the molex plug backplane backwords! one of these days i'll have to re chip and re cap both boards. anyhoo, you may want to check out your controller to insure that it is sending a head load signal. also on those drives,there are some wire jumpers that may need to be set and soldered. if i remember correctly - there is two different boards used on those drives too - one is for hard sectored and one is for soft sectored thier may be another for mfm vs another standard too - double check the boards on the drive's with your orignal - your looking for the missing or complete parts on the fm data sep and other silk screened areas and the wire jumper location's at the back of the card edge connector. just rememebered my drives were siemens fdd 100-8 e hope this helps anyway. Bill Message: 31 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:40:07 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org From: Joe Subject: help! shugart 801 Cc: Dave Mabry Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org I have several systems that use Shugart 800-1 SS 8" disk drives. I've got several defective drives plus I've been wanting some spares. Last week I picked up 10 Shugart model 801 SS drives. Today I tried to use them on the same systems but I can't make them work. I've set all the jumpers and straps exactly the same as in the 800-1 drives but the 801s aren't working. The system knows the drive is there and detects the disk being in place and rotating and that the drive door closed but the drive never gets the head load signal. I'm using the same system, cables, power supply, etc with both drives so the only difference is the drives themselves. I've tried a couple of 801s and gotten exactly the same results with all of them so I don't think that it due to a drive failure. Anybody have any experience with these or have a good idea of what's wrong? Joe --__--__-- From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Jul 22 22:12:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: Token ring (UK) In-Reply-To: <2368.65.123.179.144.1058853265.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Message-ID: No, You can use a Novell server with Token-Ring and even route between machines on Token-Ring and Ethernet. I don't know if there are any TCP/ IP over Token Ring solutions though. On Monday, July 21, 2003, at 10:54 PM, ghldbrd@ccp.com wrote: > I have a box full of token-ring adapters, IBM new in the box, and can't > find a nibble here in the States. I've been told that token ring > netowrking is an IBM only system, and requies an IBM server to play. > > Guess that's why everyone went to Ethernet. > > Gary Hildebrand > St. Joseph, MO > > >> Am clearing out my garage to make space for a PDP 11/34. >> Is there any interest at all in a fair-sized pile of token ring stuff >> - >> some >> 4MHz, some 4/16MHz (cards [inc unused PCMCIA], cables, MAUs etc) or >> should >> it all go to the dump. >> eBay prices appear to be too low to be worth the bother. >> I suspect that thge only people who might be interested in collecting >> TR >> have already been able to pick up as much as they want. >> >> This is in Rayleigh, Essex (England) >> >> Andy From rmurphy at itm-inst.com Tue Jul 22 22:13:00 2003 From: rmurphy at itm-inst.com (Rick Murphy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: DEC AD0L-A In-Reply-To: <20030722171053.37871.qmail@web13602.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030722170001.77832.93568.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <6.0.0.12.0.20030722230623.01c86078@mail.itm-inst.com> At 01:10 PM 7/22/2003, Bill Lewis wrote: >Does anyone know what a DEC AD0L-A is? I think you've got an AD01-A (the fourth character is a "1", not the letter "L".) Google searching for AD01-A yields a lot of good info. For example, -Rick From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Jul 22 23:03:00 2003 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: Microchannel Ethernet Message-ID: <11f.24157c2f.2c4f6212@aol.com> In a message dated 7/22/2003 10:26:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nedry@mail.bedlambells.com writes: > Don't need that... but, anyone got any microchannel ethernet cards? I have > an IBM PS2/95 server, with only token ring. It's that or I have to build my > own token ring segment. Kind of a drag... > They can still be found fairly easily. Check ebay as they are for sale all the time. If nothing else works out, I might be able to help. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jul 22 23:13:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: OT - Geek Destinations in Kansas City? In-Reply-To: <20030721134413.Q41446-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Bill Richman wrote: > We'll be in Kansas City over a weekend in the near future. Are there any > good surplus stores, museums, geek toy stores, etc, that we should be sure > to visit? Suggestions appreciated! You can go to KansasFest, the last hold-out Apple ][ user conference: http://www.kfest.org/ Woz himself will be there this year. It started today and goes on until Sunday. Hans Franke will also be there, as well as Jeri Ellsworth, designer of the CommodoreOne. This is Kansas City, MISSOURI, by the way. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jul 22 23:20:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: Panasonic KXP4400 Laser Printer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Hanan Friedman wrote: > I have the same drum problem. I appreciate very much if you could help me on > advise of how to put the printer into Service Mode and reset the page > counter to 00000 I've noticed in the past few weeks a lot of messages from newbies that don't seem to be subscribed to the list, but who are responding to old messages or just posting general questions and such. Was the list address posted as some sort of open help forum in some news article or something? Or is this just the magic of Google? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Jul 22 23:43:00 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: Token ring (UK) In-Reply-To: References: <2368.65.123.179.144.1058853265.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030722214037.02b1c360@mail.zipcon.net> At 10:24 PM 7/22/03 -0400, you wrote: >Nosiree. Any PC, any RS/6000, really, any machine with PCI can do token >ring. Token ring didn't require PCI bus, I have some ISA Token ring cards around here somewhere From vance at neurotica.com Tue Jul 22 23:58:00 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: Token ring (UK) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There are more TCP/IP over TP products than I can even count. Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: > No, You can use a Novell server with Token-Ring and even route between > machines > on Token-Ring and Ethernet. I don't know if there are any TCP/ IP over > Token Ring solutions > though. > > > On Monday, July 21, 2003, at 10:54 PM, ghldbrd@ccp.com wrote: > > > I have a box full of token-ring adapters, IBM new in the box, and can't > > find a nibble here in the States. I've been told that token ring > > netowrking is an IBM only system, and requies an IBM server to play. > > > > Guess that's why everyone went to Ethernet. > > > > Gary Hildebrand > > St. Joseph, MO > > > > > >> Am clearing out my garage to make space for a PDP 11/34. > >> Is there any interest at all in a fair-sized pile of token ring stuff > >> - > >> some > >> 4MHz, some 4/16MHz (cards [inc unused PCMCIA], cables, MAUs etc) or > >> should > >> it all go to the dump. > >> eBay prices appear to be too low to be worth the bother. > >> I suspect that thge only people who might be interested in collecting > >> TR > >> have already been able to pick up as much as they want. > >> > >> This is in Rayleigh, Essex (England) > >> > >> Andy From vance at neurotica.com Tue Jul 22 23:59:01 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: Token ring (UK) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030722214037.02b1c360@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: Yes, but the ISA token ring cards aren't as well supported as the PCI ones. Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Geoff Reed wrote: > At 10:24 PM 7/22/03 -0400, you wrote: > > >Nosiree. Any PC, any RS/6000, really, any machine with PCI can do token > >ring. > > Token ring didn't require PCI bus, I have some ISA Token ring cards around > here somewhere From jforbes2 at mindspring.com Wed Jul 23 00:25:01 2003 From: jforbes2 at mindspring.com (J Forbes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 Message-ID: <3F1E1B7D.7020607@mindspring.com> > From: Joe > Subject: RE: dos 1.0 > > At 11:13 PM 7/21/03 -0500, you wrote: >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Karl Paul [mailto:karlpaul36@hotmail.com] >>> >>>I'm looking for the dos 1.0 manual and binder. I have the disk and nothing >>>else. Anyone out there have a manual and binder they would like to sell? >>> >>>This one shows up on e-Bay from time to time, but at outrageous prices... >>>-sigh- > I have one that I'll sell at an outragous price :-) Mine even has thet > "rare" sticker on it that says "Version 1.1" and comes equiped with the > "rare" DOS 1.1 disks. The IBM PC DOS 1.00 manual seems to be quite rare indeed...the 1.10 version is not hard to find. What's fun is getting either running on a hard drive in a 5150 :) -- Jim Visit the Selectric Typewriter Museum! http://www.mindspring.com/~jforbes2 From rogersda at cox.net Wed Jul 23 00:39:00 2003 From: rogersda at cox.net (rogersda@cox.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: Data Systems Design DSD-880 8" floppy and hard drive? Message-ID: <20030723053458.XOFO7643.fed1mtao01.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Jerome Fine wrote: > I agree there needs to be a SYSGEN to be able to use > all 3 * RL02 drives with the DL(X).SYS device drivers > and the hardware handles ONLY 18 bit addresses for > both the DYX.SYS and DLX.SYS device drivers. > > BUT the RLV11 and the RXV12 from DEC also > managed to handle only 18-bit addresses. So the > DSD box was completely compatible with the stock > (distributed) V4.00 of RT-11. > > However, V4.00 code in DY.MAC contained the > extra instructions to use a double-sided media which > would probably have been called an RX03. And > although those extra instructions had bugs (after all > they had never been tested) and were removed by > V5.00 of RT-11, I did fix the bugs and ran a DYX.SYS > device driver under V5.03 of RT-11 using the DSD > 8" floppy as a double-sided drive. In addition, > I also added a bounce buffer in DYX.SYS so that > a user buffer above 256 KBytes could be used > with the 18-bit hardware addresses in the floppy. Actually, for device I/O, it doesn't matter whether one is using 16, 18, or 22 bit addressing. The PDP-11 I/O page is defined as from 28KW-32KW, which is entirely within the range of 16bit addressing. Dale Rogers DEC/Compaq/HP From ghldbrd at ccp.com Wed Jul 23 00:40:37 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: OT - Geek Destinations in Kansas City? In-Reply-To: <3AE43CC4-BCB9-11D7-9170-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> References: <1278.65.123.179.114.1058917231.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> <3AE43CC4-BCB9-11D7-9170-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <1359.65.123.179.146.1058938130.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> > Gary > > Is this all in Kansas City Kansas, or Missouri? Yes From ghldbrd at ccp.com Wed Jul 23 00:45:01 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: OT - Geek Destinations in Kansas City? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030722215012.3c2fd4f4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <20030721134413.Q41446-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> <3.0.6.16.20030722215012.3c2fd4f4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1367.65.123.179.146.1058938441.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> > I went to KC last year and Gary Hildebrand and I went around to a > bunch > of local surplus computer places. The only good one IMO was in Topeka. I > don't remember the name but Gary can tell you and give you directions. > > Joe Kansas Computer Recyclers in Topeka isn't anywhere as good as it used to be. First they moved across the street, and left all the really vintage behind, and then the building they were in was condemmed by the city. Now they've moved again, and I'm sure things have thinned out again. Aformentioned is where I got my prize haul of Amiga stuff a couple years ago. I think the used computer market is so depressed with the dirt cheap prices of new stuff, that most people just toss the old stuff in the dumpster. What a waste --- but that is the AMERICAN WAY. Gary Hildebrand From rogersda at cox.net Wed Jul 23 00:57:00 2003 From: rogersda at cox.net (rogersda@cox.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: Dec RA60 Drives and HSC40 Controller... worth rescuing? Message-ID: <20030723055308.DLXQ641.fed1mtao04.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> The RA60's should be opened with power on. However, unlike RL02's, the solenoid can be overridden with a thin blade. > From: Corda Albert J DLVA > ... As I recently acquired a VAX6630, I am considering > latching onto the HSC40, but am vacillating on the drives... You have to really *want* one of these. They are power hungry little beasties. > they _are_ heavy, and the dealer has no disk packs unless, > god forbid, they are still in the drives 8-( ... I need to go > back sometime this week and open 'em up for a look-see. > > Not being familiar with the RA60, and being unable to find any > docs on-line, I have no idea how to open these up... does anyone > have any experience with these critters? Can they > be opened without power (i.e. is the top door locked with a > solenoid?) As far as what to look for, hold the pack so that light is passing through the side of it. Every surface should be completely smooth. If you see any rings, it's had the head touch it. The heads should be white to yellowish white with a dark bar in the middle. If there are black or brown smudges on the head, they've been crashed. If they clean up smooth with 95% alcohol, they ~may~ be okay. I'd have to look, but I think good heads ohmed out at 4-6 ohms. (It's been a while since I last worked on one.) Dale the DECdude From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Jul 23 01:34:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: Panasonic KXP4400 Laser Printer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <495662164c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I've noticed in the past few weeks a lot of messages from newbies that > don't seem to be subscribed to the list, but who are responding to old > messages or just posting general questions and such. How about changing the email link on the archive pages - make it link to an "About Classiccmp" page, including how to subscribe and unsubscribe (aka unsubscribble). Make the list bounce messages from non-subscribers. It works for the PICLIST ;) > Or is this just the magic of Google? Probably. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | video mods, 10BaseT (i3 EtherLAN600), http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 8xCD, framegrabber, teletext Error: Keyboard not found. Press F1 to continue or F2 to enter SETUP. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Jul 23 01:49:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: WTD: 2114 RAMs Message-ID: <396263164c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Hi all, Has anyone got six (or more) 2114 RAMs they feel like parting with? John Honniball (coredump at gifford dot co dot uk) was supposed to be sending me some, but for some reason he's stopped answering my emails. At this moment in time, the only thing I want to do is see my Jupiter Ace running. Unfortunately the RAMs are totally stuffed (Tony Duell was right about them dying if you look at them wrong!)... I know BGMicro still sell them - is anyone placing an order with them in the near future? Thanks. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | video mods, 10BaseT (i3 EtherLAN600), http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 8xCD, framegrabber, teletext REALITY.SYS corrupted: reboot universe? From ggs at shiresoft.com Wed Jul 23 01:51:00 2003 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: apology for the delay In-Reply-To: <00e201c34fb6$4e6e4ec0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <00e201c34fb6$4e6e4ec0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <1058942622.2084.3.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> On Mon, 2003-07-21 at 11:31, Jay West wrote: > Sorry all the email got backed up on cctech for a few days. I just got back > from the Great Oklahoma Excersion(tm) with Guy to pick up Jeff Sharp's > collection - hence I was away from the list for a few days. > > God was Oklahoma HOT!!! Lots of pictures of the move were taken. I'm shipping > my pictures off to Guy and he'll put them up on his website sometime I'm > sure. OK, I've put a page up describing the move. I put in a bit of a narrative so people get a general idea of what we pulled of in a few days (including about 1200 miles of driving). You can either navigate from the top level on my web site (shouldn't be too hard to figure out) http://www.shiresoft.com but here's a direct link too: http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/moving/index.html -- TTFN - Guy From arcarlini at iee.org Wed Jul 23 02:11:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: scanning booklets for archive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002401c350e9$0fdb7af0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > On a tangentially related note, we've just started an effort > at the VC > Forum to track scanned documents. Good idea, although keeping track of a large number of documents in a thread like that will not scale well. You want to scrape the data and turn it into a web-accessible database. Like http://vt100.net/manx, but for all docs and not just DEC ones. You might want to decide exactly what information you want to record now (location and title obviously but what about format, dpi, scanned vs ocr vs scan+ocr, colour, approx size ...) before you have to go back and retrofit that data to the existing 600 entries (been there, got the T-shirt). Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From paul at frixxon.co.uk Wed Jul 23 02:44:00 2003 From: paul at frixxon.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: DEC AD0L-A In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.12.0.20030722230623.01c86078@mail.itm-inst.com> References: <20030722170001.77832.93568.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <6.0.0.12.0.20030722230623.01c86078@mail.itm-inst.com> Message-ID: <3F1E3BAE.2010304@frixxon.co.uk> Rick Murphy wrote: > > I think you've got an AD01-A (the fourth character is a "1", not the > letter "L".) > Google searching for AD01-A yields a lot of good info. For example, > In that case, this manual may be some use, though it appears to be describing a different (later?) model: "AD01-D Analog-to-Digital Conversion Subsystem Manual" http://208.190.133.201/decimages/AD01_manual.pdf (9.3 MiB) Table of Contents: http://vt100/manx/details?pn=DEC-11-HADB-D;cn=1 - Paul From paul at frixxon.co.uk Wed Jul 23 03:05:01 2003 From: paul at frixxon.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: scanning booklets for archive In-Reply-To: <002401c350e9$0fdb7af0$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <002401c350e9$0fdb7af0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <3F1E40A5.70505@frixxon.co.uk> Antonio Carlini wrote: > Good idea, although keeping track of a large number of documents > in a thread like that will not scale well. You want to scrape > the data and turn it into a web-accessible database. > > Like http://vt100.net/manx, but for all docs and not > just DEC ones. Manx is intended to cover more than just DEC documents, but I've been concentrating on populating those first; there are over 4000 manuals in the catalogue so far, of which over 1500 are online. Manx already has a database structure that can accommodate multiple companies and plenty of information about each manual, including abstracts, table of contents and full text index. I suppose I really need a way for third parties to add items to Manx. It can already import tab-separated-variable files, which makes it very easy to do a load of searching for new manuals and then add the results. I'll look into this. - Paul From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Jul 23 03:23:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: Token ring (UK) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: > No, You can use a Novell server with Token-Ring and even route between > machines on Token-Ring and Ethernet. I don't know if there are any > TCP/IP over Token Ring solutions though. Yes, IP is quite happy to run over TR. Not all drivers did this well, but the brand cards had no problems. I managed a customer's network for a long time, and that network had two segments: one with standard ethernet (office network), and the other was TR, down in the production hall, where all the printing systems and paper cutting machines were driven. Those were much happier with the TR network than they were (before) with Ethernet. I had a Cisco 2513 router (Eth <-> TR) inbetween them, although this could also have been a machine with two NICs, obviously. --fred From kurtk7 at visi.com Wed Jul 23 03:25:01 2003 From: kurtk7 at visi.com (kurtk7@visi.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: Website down? Message-ID: <1058948486.3f1e4586a94c4@my.visi.com> Just a quick question for the group, Anyone heard of a website called olddos.org? Thanks Kurt From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Jul 23 03:29:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: Data Systems Design DSD-880 8" floppy and hard drive? In-Reply-To: <20030723053458.XOFO7643.fed1mtao01.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 rogersda@cox.net wrote: > Actually, for device I/O, it doesn't matter whether > one is using 16, 18, or 22 bit addressing. The PDP-11 > I/O page is defined as from 28KW-32KW, which is entirely > within the range of 16bit addressing. No, because the MMU maps this space from the upper 4KW in *virtual* space (the visible 64KB space the CPU can address) to the upper 4KW in *physical* space, meaning: 16b: 28-32K 18b: 124-128K 22b: 2044-2048K Depending on how the OS maps its ring-0 address space, this might not matter directly to the software. However, devices doing DMA need to know the *physical* address of the buffer in memory, not the virtual one :) So.. DMA devices are usually the cause of trubs with 16/18b addressing in 22b systems. Try installing an RK11 in an 11/44 or 11/70 and do NOT do anything special :) (yes, that's why they came up with the Unibus map...) --f From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jul 23 03:34:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: Data Systems Design DSD-880 8" floppy and hard drive? In-Reply-To: "Re: Data Systems Design DSD-880 8" floppy and hard drive?" (Jul 23, 1:34) References: <20030723053458.XOFO7643.fed1mtao01.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Message-ID: <10307230930.ZM15882@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 23, 1:34, wrote: > Jerome Fine wrote: > > > [...] In addition, > > I also added a bounce buffer in DYX.SYS so that > > a user buffer above 256 KBytes could be used > > with the 18-bit hardware addresses in the floppy. > > Actually, for device I/O, it doesn't matter whether > one is using 16, 18, or 22 bit addressing. The PDP-11 > I/O page is defined as from 28KW-32KW, which is entirely > within the range of 16bit addressing. It's true that the I/O page always appears *to software* at *logical* addresses 160000-177777. This is fine for the processor, which has logic to deal with it. Nevertheless, the *hardware* addresses which appear on the bus need to be 160000-177777, 760000-777777, or 17760000-17777777 depending on whether the system uses 16, 18, or 22-bit addressing. To make life easier, DEC provide a "Bus Bank Select 7" signal, which most I/O devices use to detect access to the I/O page. What Jerome is referring to, however, is the DMA operation. An RXV21 or RLV11 (and some other devices) can only perform data transfers to 18-bit addresses. Data is transferred only by DMA; you can't transfer data from the device controller, only commands and status. Most DEC operating systems expect data transfers to be able to load/save from data buffers at arbitrary (physical) addresses; therefore drivers in some operating systems have the option to use a bounce buffer mapped to low memory, for 18-bit devices. They therefore transfer the data in two stages: under program control between the bounce buffer and the required address, and letting the DMA transfer between bounce buffer and actual device. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From asholz at topinform.com Wed Jul 23 03:51:00 2003 From: asholz at topinform.com (Andreas Holz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:58 2005 Subject: Varian Data Machines In-Reply-To: <200307161926.h6GJQRwY014660@spies.com> References: <200307161926.h6GJQRwY014660@spies.com> Message-ID: <3F1E4BC0.40303@topinform.com> Al Kossow wrote: >I got a Varian(Univac) Data Machines 620L100 in very good conditions >including a fixed-head disk, a teletype and a Tektronix storage display. >This machines is dated to 1974. > > >-- > >Is it an ADAPTS system (is there an A/D panel just below the CPU) ? > >I have one. It is very likely that there is a lab oriented BASIC >(possibly still in core!) > >If there is any way to save the contents of memory before you fiddle >with trying programs, it would be a GOOD THING. I haven't touched >my machine because I don't want to destroy what may be the only copy >of that program. > >I would also suggest not spinning up the disc right away. > >I assume you aren't getting any documentation or external software >with it? > > > > Al, it was a system connected to a mass-spectometer, so it might be, that something like this "lab orientated basic" might be still in core. There is no A/D panel just below the CPU. If you are interested, I could make some images. I got a lot of manuals and schematics - I'll prepare a list. Since my brother got a powerful scanner at work, he might be able to scan the documents, which are not at your site already. Which steps in powering on the machine you would suggest? Andreas From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jul 23 04:11:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: FS: RARE black Bell & Howell Apple ][ Plus with drives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Jason McBrien wrote: > > > Does anyone know how "rare" these things really are? I've got one > > laying around somewheres. Works too, but there's a hole drilled into > > the side so it's not exactly museum quality. > > Not very. Perhaps "uncommon", but just so. They were made in the > thousands, perhaps tens of thousands. If you go to enough school garage > sales you may just come across a stack or pallet of them. > > No, I don't have one. I've never even seen one in person (I don't > think). But they're not rare. At one time I used one on a daily basis. I've not come across too many in the surplus market. I'd like to find one eventually, but there is no way I'm going to pay ebay value for one... I do have one of the matching drives in storage, so maybe it will attract the rest of the system ;) I also used to use a clone type Apple II at one time, but I don't remember who made it. Its case vaguely reminded me of an Apple III. It had two built-in 5.25" floppy drives in the upper section of the case below where the monitor sat. -Toth From ptremewe at bigpond.net.au Wed Jul 23 04:46:01 2003 From: ptremewe at bigpond.net.au (peter tremewen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: Calling ApleII experts...... References: Message-ID: <052001c350fe$c4a886c0$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> Hi all, I have had for some time in my collection some bare Apple II mother boards. I would love to test these and see if thery are working, shouldn't be a problem for two of them, but the third seems to be missing the Bios. I believe this board to be a "clone", It has the Z80 mounted on board. How many people where producing these boards?? Is there any chance of coming across a BIOS chip for this M/Board?? If some one can provide me with the contents of the Eprom I can burn it from a file and test it if necasary. I'm also after info on mods to these motherboards. One of the boards has a jumper from the keyboard conector to the NE558, and i'd love to know what this does. Like wise i'd love to have info on the I.C. tester that was available as a kit for the Apple. If anyone has details or knows where I might be able to get hold of them feel free to inform me. On A lighter note, I just won a Koala Graphics pad on Ebay to suit my working machine. . I'm not sure how rare these things really are, but at $30 Au couldn't resist the buy, figured even if this was a bit over priced it will still be worth it. I've never been really big on Apples before, more of a commodore man myself, But i'm finally getting around to cleaning up the "Apple" section of the collection. Hopefully i'll be able to get hold of even more interesting stuff on Ebay and other interesting places....... Peter T. From SPEDRAJA at ono.com Wed Jul 23 05:24:01 2003 From: SPEDRAJA at ono.com (Sergio Pedraja Cabo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: Decdocs.org Site and contents Message-ID: <22e4a1fb0e.1fb0e22e4a@ono.com> Hi. What happened finally with this website and its contents ? I offered to support it, but somebody in the USA had interest too and I leave to pass the matter. Greetings Sergio From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jul 23 06:08:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: Data Systems Design DSD-880 8" floppy and hard drive? In-Reply-To: <3F1DF0AE.1B493126@compsys.to> References: <3.0.6.16.20030717205309.3daf3460@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <010a01c34e66$3097a0a0$0200a8c0@cosmo> <3F1B30BB.B6D94BF9@compsys.to> <3F1C4F1C.1050604@tiac.net> <3F1CAEB1.E6DDE67D@compsys.to> <3F1DD0FF.6050803@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030723065949.3cffe068@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:19 PM 7/22/03 -0400, you wrote: >>Bob Shannon wrote: > >> The DSD boxes I used do not emulate DEC drives, and made the 45 meg hard >> drive >> available as a single device. > >Jerome Fine replies: > >As far as I know, the DSD 880/8 and the DSD 880/30 all used >only a Qbus controller. And they accepted the standard DEC >device drivers in RT-11. > >There may have been other DSD boxes in addition the the DSD 880 >and DSD 440, but I had not heard about them, let alone the details. FWIW I was looking through my Intel docs last night and found a manual for a DSD Multibus hard drive controller. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jul 23 06:11:17 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3F1E1B7D.7020607@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030723070308.3ca748e8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:22 PM 7/22/03 -0700, you wrote: >> From: Joe >> Subject: RE: dos 1.0 >> > At 11:13 PM 7/21/03 -0500, you wrote: > >>>-----Original Message----- > >>>From: Karl Paul [mailto:karlpaul36@hotmail.com] > >>> > >>>I'm looking for the dos 1.0 manual and binder. I have the disk and >nothing > >>>else. Anyone out there have a manual and binder they would like to sell? > >>> > > >>>This one shows up on e-Bay from time to time, but at outrageous >prices... > >>>-sigh- > >> I have one that I'll sell at an outragous price :-) Mine even has thet >> "rare" sticker on it that says "Version 1.1" and comes equiped with the >> "rare" DOS 1.1 disks. > >The IBM PC DOS 1.00 manual seems to be quite rare indeed...the 1.10 >version is not hard to find. What's fun is getting either running on a >hard drive in a 5150 :) That would be interesting especailly since neither version supported sub-directories! Joe From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Jul 23 07:25:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030723070308.3ca748e8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Joe wrote: > That would be interesting especailly since neither version supported > sub-directories! and a fixed-size (112?) number of entries in the root directory.. fun ;-) --f From nedry at mail.bedlambells.com Wed Jul 23 07:30:00 2003 From: nedry at mail.bedlambells.com (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: Commodore CBM/PET in Terminator 3 In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030718075909.017b7ca0@mail.bedlambells.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030723130238.02138ee0@mail.bedlambells.com> They had computers in East Germany? Wow. What was it, some sort of Soviet PDP clone or something? At 11:05 20/07/2003 -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: >I brought a rather large East German computer from Germany to the US in >November of 2001. I got pulled aside in the UK just before boarding my >transfer flight to answer questions about it. I had to open the boxes >and show the security personnel what was inside. I explained who I was >and what I did, and after looking for a bit they must've concluded I >wasn't a terrorist and sent me on my way. > >(At least they held the plane for me :) > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * [---------] "Homer, we don't have to have sex." "Yes we do, the cookie told me so." "Deserts aren't always right Homer." "But they're so delicious." Website: retrobbs.org BBS: telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 Tradewars: telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org [---------] From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Jul 23 07:53:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 References: Message-ID: <009101c35118$ab5d76c0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> What was the first usable DOS for systems with hard drives? I didnt start using DOS until 3.x. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 8:20 AM Subject: RE: dos 1.0 > On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Joe wrote: > > > That would be interesting especailly since neither version supported > > sub-directories! > and a fixed-size (112?) number of entries in the root directory.. fun ;-) > > --f From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Jul 23 08:10:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 In-Reply-To: <009101c35118$ab5d76c0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, TeoZ wrote: > What was the first usable DOS for systems with hard drives? I didnt start > using DOS until 3.x. V2.11 introduced the concept of [nested] sub-directories, allowing one to collect related files in "binders". There were some limits as to the depth of the tree, but in all, with 2.11, the 5 and 10MB disks of the time could be used without too much problems. --f From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Wed Jul 23 08:18:01 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: scanning booklets for archive References: Message-ID: <3F1E8A52.791CB31E@comcast.net> >Why cut them in half? When I needed to copy some booklets like this, I >pulled out the staples, then took each sheet and folded it back in half. >I then scanned/copied each side of that, folded it back the other way and >scanned/copied the 2 sides of it in that configuration (this got copies >of all 4 booklet-pages that made up a single sheet). After I'd done all >the pages, I put them back in the right order and put the (original) >staples back in. > What about just scanning the tow pages at once, then cut&paste the page in half once you get it into the computer? -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From aek at spies.com Wed Jul 23 09:23:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: Vairan Data Machines Message-ID: <200307231422.h6NEMFXp023019@spies.com> I got a lot of manuals and schematics - I'll prepare a list. Since my brother got a powerful scanner at work, he might be able to scan the documents, which are not at your site already. -- I have quite a bit of material also which I will put up now that there is someone who needs it. What I don't have that would be very handy would be documentation on the fixed head disc, and disc interface. From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Wed Jul 23 09:39:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: Using a Mac mono monitor with PC VGA Message-ID: It's an MO400, Apple High-Res Mono, 35 kHz Horizontal scan, 66.7 Hz vertical scan. Looks like it won't work :(. -----Original Message----- From: Ian Primus [mailto:ian_primus@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 3:26 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Using a Mac mono monitor with PC VGA If it's a monochrome monitor, chances are that it won't work. A lot of those old monitors were fixed frequency, and can't be driven by a PC VGA card. From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jul 23 09:41:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: scanning booklets for archive In-Reply-To: <3F1E40A5.70505@frixxon.co.uk> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Paul Williams wrote: > Manx is intended to cover more than just DEC documents, but I've been > concentrating on populating those first; there are over 4000 manuals in > the catalogue so far, of which over 1500 are online. I've never heard of your effort before, but I just checked it out and it's terrific! You should definitely put up a form for user submissions. Or in the very least, setup other people with administration rights so you can have a cadre of dedicated folks scouring the internet and reporting their findings of online manuals to the database. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Jul 23 09:48:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: Using a Mac mono monitor with PC VGA References: Message-ID: <001701c35128$bc6b5bc0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> I think there are fixed frequency VGA cards http://www.devo.com/video/ Most likely it will be found on ebay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Feldman, Robert" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 10:35 AM Subject: RE: Using a Mac mono monitor with PC VGA > It's an MO400, Apple High-Res Mono, 35 kHz Horizontal scan, 66.7 Hz vertical scan. Looks like it won't work :(. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ian Primus [mailto:ian_primus@yahoo.com] > Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 3:26 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Using a Mac mono monitor with PC VGA > > > If it's a monochrome monitor, chances are that it won't work. A lot of > those old monitors were fixed frequency, and can't be driven by a PC > VGA card. > From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jul 23 09:51:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: Calling ApleII experts...... In-Reply-To: <052001c350fe$c4a886c0$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, peter tremewen wrote: > I have had for some time in my collection some bare Apple II mother > boards. I would love to test these and see if thery are working, shouldn't > be a problem for two of them, but the third seems to be missing the Bios. I Apple ]['s didn't have "BIOS". They had ROM ;) > believe this board to be a "clone", It has the Z80 mounted on board. How > many people where producing these boards?? Is there any chance of coming There were dozens of clone manufacturers for the Apple ][. > across a BIOS chip for this M/Board?? If some one can provide me with the > contents of the Eprom I can burn it from a file and test it if necasary. You most likely don't need to go through all that trouble. Just take the ROMs from any other Apple ][ motherboard and pop them into this one. For minimal system operation you can just transfer ROM F8. For BASIC, you also want ROM-D0, ROM-D8, ROM-E0, ROM-E8 and ROM-F0. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jul 23 10:01:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: Commodore CBM/PET in Terminator 3 In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030723130238.02138ee0@mail.bedlambells.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Mark Firestone wrote: > They had computers in East Germany? Wow. What was it, some sort of Soviet > PDP clone or something? They had computers throughout the former Soviet Union. You'd be amazed at the number of clones of western computers that were produced, not to mention original designs throughout the Union in the various satellite states. The computer I got was by a company called Robotron, which was a fairly large East German computer manufacturer. They did indeed produce a clone of the PDP-11. One of these systems is on display at the Computer History Museum. The computer I have is a Robotron A5120. It's based on a cloned 8080 microprocessor. It has an 8" floppy disks built into the cabinet along with the CRT. It's a heavy beast. I also got an additional chassis with two more 8" drives, plus the main computer had a naked 5.25" rigged up to it. Here's a website with more information (in Deutsch) and a picture of what it looks like. The one I have is the one on the left. http://www.robotron-net.de/pc_s.html Scroll down for even more cool designs. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Jul 23 10:14:01 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: Commodore CBM/PET in Terminator 3 In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030723130238.02138ee0@mail.bedlambells.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030723101105.03e06a88@mail.ubanproductions.com> Please tell me (us) more about the PDP-11 clones? Do you have any model numbers, pictures, or web sites for them? --tom At 07:51 AM 7/23/2003 -0700, you wrote: >On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Mark Firestone wrote: > > > They had computers in East Germany? Wow. What was it, some sort of Soviet > > PDP clone or something? > >They had computers throughout the former Soviet Union. You'd be amazed at >the number of clones of western computers that were produced, not to >mention original designs throughout the Union in the various satellite >states. > >The computer I got was by a company called Robotron, which was a fairly >large East German computer manufacturer. They did indeed produce a clone >of the PDP-11. One of these systems is on display at the Computer History >Museum. > >The computer I have is a Robotron A5120. It's based on a cloned 8080 >microprocessor. It has an 8" floppy disks built into the cabinet along >with the CRT. It's a heavy beast. I also got an additional chassis with >two more 8" drives, plus the main computer had a naked 5.25" rigged up to >it. > >Here's a website with more information (in Deutsch) and a picture of what >it looks like. The one I have is the one on the left. > >http://www.robotron-net.de/pc_s.html > >Scroll down for even more cool designs. > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jul 23 12:14:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: Token ring (UK) Message-ID: <20030723171034.92660.qmail@web21103.mail.yahoo.com> >>Nosiree. Any PC, any RS/6000, really, any machine with PCI can do token >>ring. > >Token ring didn't require PCI bus, I have some ISA Token ring cards around >here somewhere Yep, Madge and IBM (obviously) made ISA boards. I believe they both made PCMCIA cards too (IBM certainly did, I still have one somewhere). My old company were exclusively 16Mbit token-ring up until about three years ago (and crying out for leads on spare parts back then). Support for anything other than a Windows/DOS PC was pretty much non-existant though and as we started using more and more Unix hardware (and the odd Mac, and Linux on x86) on projects I ended up throwing a bit of Ethernet into the pot, and things gradually started going that way by the time I left. cheers Jules ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jul 23 12:17:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 In-Reply-To: <009101c35118$ab5d76c0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> References: <009101c35118$ab5d76c0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030723100127.N43280@newshell.lmi.net> On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, TeoZ wrote: > What was the first usable DOS for systems with hard drives? I didnt start > using DOS until 3.x. There were third party hard drives (with special add-on software) since 1.xx. (PC-DOS 1.00 and 1.10, MS-DOS 1.25) Somewhere, I still have a Tallgrass external drive. 2.00 was the first to directly support hard drives, along with hierarchical subdirectories, etc. 2.1x was INTENDED to be customizable. (laptops, different drives, etc.) 3.xx added support for path in executution (you could run a program that was in a different directory than the one that you were in) 3.10 added the undocumented network redirector, which was also necessary for the way that they implemented CD-ROMs. (The CD-ROM was seen as being a VERY local network) Each one also added additional floppy formats. > What was the first usable DOS still waiting. But 6.2x was my favorite, since it was the ONLY time that MICROS~1 EVER released ANY product where the primary design goal was increased reliability, instead of adding features. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jul 23 12:28:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030723101232.K43280@newshell.lmi.net> > > What was the first usable DOS for systems with hard drives? I didnt start > > using DOS until 3.x. On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > V2.11 introduced the concept of [nested] sub-directories, allowing > one to collect related files in "binders". There were some limits > as to the depth of the tree, but in all, with 2.11, the 5 and 10MB > disks of the time could be used without too much problems. 2.00 ! V2.00 introduced the concept of [nested] sub-directories PC-DOS 2.10 added some other small miscellaneous, including slowing down floppy access so as not to time out waiting for the Qume 142 drives used in the PCJr and portable. (arguably the worst floppy drive EVER) MS-DOS 2.11 (There was no PC-DOS 2.111) was intended to be the customizable version for OEMs with other STRANGE hardware, such as 8x80 and 16x80 LCD screens (Gavilan) and BIZARRE drives, such as 720K 5.25" and even 3.5"! (NOTE: EVERY OEM had their own version of 2.11. Sometimes there was nothing unique about it, but often MODE.COM was seriously different, and FORMAT.COM had to deal with any bizarre floppies that had been added). (NOTE2: PC-DOS did NOT support 720K (3.5") until PC-DOS 3.20) EXCEPTION: PCJX (device driver on top of 2.10?) PC-DOS 3.30 was the first to support 1.4M (NOTE3: the next version that actively supported customization was MS-DOS 3.31. There was NO PC-DOS 3.31) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Jul 23 12:46:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20030723101232.K43280@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Fred Cisin wrote: > 2.00 ! > V2.00 introduced the concept of [nested] sub-directories Thanks for the clarification, Fred! I once had a V1.0 and V1.25 kit, but threw them away when I moved to the US. Arrrgh. --f From paul at frixxon.co.uk Wed Jul 23 13:00:01 2003 From: paul at frixxon.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: Manx [was: Re: scanning booklets for archive] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F1ECC39.9080803@frixxon.co.uk> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Paul Williams wrote: > >>Manx is intended to cover more than just DEC documents, but I've been >>concentrating on populating those first; there are over 4000 manuals in >>the catalogue so far, of which over 1500 are online. > > > I've never heard of your effort before, but I just checked it out and it's > terrific! You should definitely put up a form for user submissions. Or > in the very least, setup other people with administration rights so you > can have a cadre of dedicated folks scouring the internet and reporting > their findings of online manuals to the database. Thanks. I should have announced it properly here but I never got round to it, and Antonio has been citing it weekly anyway! Now I've got broadband and moved the local copy of my site from work to home, I'll have more time to work on it. The search engine currently has limitations that will be improved in the next version (so that ToC and full text searching will work, for one thing). I'll look at an admin facility and bulk upload as well. The feature that has really got my interest is adding an API like that used for Google or Amazon. If you're into web applications at all and you've not seen either of these, you should take a look. Adding an API would mean that Manx's database could be used by other applications without using Manx's front end. At the simplest level, other applications could just send an ordinary HTTP request to Manx and get a well-formed XML response, which can be easily parsed into whatever form you want for your application. I won't say more here because we'll be veering off-topic into web programming and some people will be expecting timescale information. I'll stick more info up on the site soon. - Paul From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jul 23 13:06:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030723070308.3ca748e8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030723070308.3ca748e8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030723105959.L43280@newshell.lmi.net> On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Joe wrote: > That would be interesting especailly since neither version supported > sub-directories! I remember one third party add-on that implemented USER NUMBERs, as in CP/M From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Jul 23 13:16:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20030723105959.L43280@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Fred Cisin wrote: > I remember one third party add-on that implemented USER NUMBERs, as in > CP/M I just checked my archive of mostly useless stuff, and found a 20MB ZIP file claiming to be the DOS 6.0 source kit. It indeed looks like a developer's personal backup of his/her development tree. Along with the usual suspects in there is the "COW" code, which apparently means Character Oriented Windows .. ;) --f From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jul 23 13:22:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: Russian computers? (was: Commodore CBM/PET in Terminator 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030723110916.H43280@newshell.lmi.net> > On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Mark Firestone wrote: > > They had computers in East Germany? Wow. What was it, some sort of Soviet > > PDP clone or something? On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > They had computers throughout the former Soviet Union. You'd be amazed at > the number of clones of western computers that were produced, not to > mention original designs throughout the Union in the various satellite > states. about a decade ago, when Lee Felsenstein was doing his campaign to liberate Russia by giving the people microcomputers, ... I did some disk format conversion of some Russian microcomputer disks from a machine that was either made by Okidata, or copied from it. I never saw the computer itself, just the diskettes. They had some Oki BIOS code in track 0 (boot track), but with messsages tranlated into Russian and padded out to replace the previous message. They used a MICROS~1 "Stand-Alone BASIC" directory structure, like what NEC did, that later got modified into the Coco directory. (and which was what inspired Patterson to use the F.A.T. system in DOS, and the 400K/800K Mac directory structure) -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jul 23 13:28:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: Commodore CBM/PET in Terminator 3 In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030723101105.03e06a88@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Tom Uban wrote: > Please tell me (us) more about the PDP-11 clones? Do you have any > model numbers, pictures, or web sites for them? I don't have much more information, but here's a photo of the beast at the CHM: http://www.digibarn.com/history/first-chm-visit/Image24.jpg Once Hans Franke is back and catches up with his messages then he may be able to provide some more data. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From nedry at mail.bedlambells.com Wed Jul 23 13:59:01 2003 From: nedry at mail.bedlambells.com (nedry ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: Token ring (UK) Message-ID: <200307231219.AA116850866@mail.bedlambells.com> My company is still all 16 meg token ring. The cards (both PCMCIA and PCI) are still available from Madge (we just bought five PCI Cards) and cost over ?100 each. Ouch. I've got my laptop set up with both e-net and token ring PCMCIA cards, and it works great, with both Slackware and Windows 2000... although making Slackware work ment some manual editing of config files... Take Care, Mark ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Jules Richardson Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:10:34 +0100 (BST) >Yep, Madge and IBM (obviously) made ISA boards. I believe they both >made PCMCIA cards too (IBM certainly did, I still have one >somewhere). My old company were exclusively 16Mbit token-ring up >until about three years ago (and crying out for leads on spare parts >back then). > >Support for anything other than a Windows/DOS PC was pretty much non- >existant though and as we started using more and more Unix hardware >(and the odd Mac, and Linux on x86) on projects I ended up throwing a >bit of Ethernet into the pot, and things gradually started going that >way by the time I left. From karlpaul36 at hotmail.com Wed Jul 23 14:13:00 2003 From: karlpaul36 at hotmail.com (Karl Paul) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 Message-ID: Joe, Not so. The DOS 1.0 manual has no reference to Microsoft. The first page of the manual of DOS 1.1 states Disk Operation System, by Microsoft. The DOS 1.0 just states Disk Operation System. The part number is not the same either. Karl Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:00:22 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org From: Joe Subject: Re: dos 1.0 Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org If you have a DOS 1.1 manual then you have a DOS 1.0 manual. I've had and seen several DOS 1.0 and 1.1 packages and the only difference between the manuals was that the DOS 1.1 manuals had a paper sticker on them that said "DOS 1.1". Even the part number on them was the same. Joe At 01:31 PM 7/22/03 -0500, you wrote: >I have DOS 1.1, in fact I have ALL of the IBM/PC DOS versions but for a >complete 1.0. > >Karl _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jul 23 14:24:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: Getting Mac OS X to play nice with DEC OS's Message-ID: Since there seem to be a few people on CLASSICCMP besides me running Mac OS X, I figure the following might be of interest. One of my chief remaining complaints with Mac OS X has been getting X-Windows to play nicely with OpenVMS and other DEC OS's. Normally I use a shell script to start up a xterm with the properly configured keyboard mappings, but that doesn't work under Mac OS X. I'm used to having a fully functional keypad for editing files, and I can't live without it. Well, I think I've finally got it about solved. Simply do the following. Dump your existing keyboard layout (twice): xmodmap -pke > ~/.Xmodmap xmodmap -pke > ~/.Xmodmap.orig Change to the following keycodes in the ~/.Xmodmap keycode 79 = KP_F1 keycode 89 = KP_F2 keycode 83 = KP_F3 keycode 75 = KP_F4 keycode 127 = Select Load your new .Xmodmap: xmodmap ~/.Xmodmap Add the following to ~/.Xdefaults xterm*VT100.Translations: #override \ BackSpace: string(0x7f) If you actually need the normal X-Windows keyboard layout for some reason you can get it back by doing: xmodmap ~/.Xmodmap.orig So far I've tested this with TOPS-20, OpenVMS, and RT-11 and it seems to be working great. I'm not sure if the function keys work right, as I don't really use them, but all the keys I use for editing do work. My only complaint is that it doesn't support double-height text, but it's a lot cheaper solution than going out and buying a commercial terminal emulator that offers full support. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From aek at spies.com Wed Jul 23 14:28:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: Manx [was: Re: scanning booklets for archive] Message-ID: <200307231926.h6NJQ6Wj027407@spies.com> Thanks for indexing all of this. A flat text file of all of the entries would be of use also. Do you know if this can be put on line? Someone was asking about it on alt.sys.pdp8 recently DEC-8I-H2CA-D PP8/I High-Speed Paper-Tape Punch Option Functional Description   DEC-8I-H2DA-D PR8/I High-Speed Perforated Tape Reader and Control Option Functional Description   DEC-8I-H8NA-D KT8/I Time-Sharing Option Functional Description   DEC-8I-HOCA-D KE8/I Extended Arithmetic Element   DEC-8I-HODA-D KB8/I General Input/Output Interface Option Description From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jul 23 14:41:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: Benchmark test software for the PC? Message-ID: Does anyone know of any free benchmark test software for the PC? Preferably something that runs in DOS mode that I can boot off a floppy (to avoid having to boot into Windows). I have two PCs that I want to benchmark to determine which one has the better performance for my new web server. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Jul 23 14:59:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: Benchmark test software for the PC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2602ac164c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Does anyone know of any free benchmark test software for the PC? > Preferably something that runs in DOS mode that I can boot off a floppy > (to avoid having to boot into Windows). There was the "Landmark Speed Test" which gave stupid results on anything faster than a 486 (IIRC). There's also American Megatrends's AMIDIAG diagnostic kit - a few old versions were given away on the cover of "PC Plus" magazine. Finally, there's Whetstone and Dhrystone - leave them going for a good half hour, then check the results. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | video mods, 10BaseT (i3 EtherLAN600), http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 8xCD, framegrabber, teletext ... Techs would rather pee on an electric fence for the light show From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jul 23 15:03:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 In-Reply-To: <009101c35118$ab5d76c0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030723153727.48dffdf8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> IIRC the first one that supported sub-directories was DOS 2.1. Officaily it was probably DOS 2.0 but I don't think I've ever seen 2.0. I've seen lots of 2.1 and 2.11 but not 2.0. Joe At 08:48 AM 7/23/03 -0400, you wrote: >What was the first usable DOS for systems with hard drives? I didnt start >using DOS until 3.x. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Fred N. van Kempen" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 8:20 AM >Subject: RE: dos 1.0 > > >> On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Joe wrote: >> >> > That would be interesting especailly since neither version supported >> > sub-directories! >> and a fixed-size (112?) number of entries in the root directory.. fun ;-) >> >> --f From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jul 23 15:05:55 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030723154929.48d7ef0a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Let me make this REAL clear. I've had both DOS 1.0 and 1.1 and they were identical except for different disks and a paper sticker on the package that said "DOS 1.1". I'm also fairly sure that there was no other mention of hte DOs version anywhere else in the package except of the disks themselves. I specificly checked the part number printed on the packages and they were exactly the same. I didn't go through EVERY page in the manual but the 20 or so pages that I checked, including the title page, indexs, introduction, copyright, etc, were all exactly the same. I'm not 100% sure but I don't think either of them mentioned MS. I did see a LATER DOs 1.1 package that had CHANGE pages added to it that was slightly different. I don't remember if it had the same part number and paper sticker or not. Joe At 02:09 PM 7/23/03 -0500, you wrote: >Joe, Not so. The DOS 1.0 manual has no reference to Microsoft. The first >page of the manual of DOS 1.1 states Disk Operation System, by Microsoft. >The DOS 1.0 just states Disk Operation System. The part number is not the >same either. > >Karl > > > >Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:00:22 >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >From: Joe >Subject: Re: dos 1.0 >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >If you have a DOS 1.1 manual then you have a DOS 1.0 manual. I've had and >seen several DOS 1.0 and 1.1 packages and the only difference between the >manuals was that the DOS 1.1 manuals had a paper sticker on them that said >"DOS 1.1". Even the part number on them was the same. > > Joe > >At 01:31 PM 7/22/03 -0500, you wrote: >>I have DOS 1.1, in fact I have ALL of the IBM/PC DOS versions but for a >>complete 1.0. >> >>Karl > >_________________________________________________________________ >Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jul 23 15:08:50 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: FS: RARE black Bell & Howell Apple ][ Plus with drives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030723155108.48d7c7da@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hey Toth! I have a black Bell & Howell Apple II but no drives. I can give those drives of your's a home if they need one. :-) Joe At 04:21 AM 7/23/03 -0500, you wrote: >On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >> On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Jason McBrien wrote: >> >> > Does anyone know how "rare" these things really are? I've got one >> > laying around somewheres. Works too, but there's a hole drilled into >> > the side so it's not exactly museum quality. >> >> Not very. Perhaps "uncommon", but just so. They were made in the >> thousands, perhaps tens of thousands. If you go to enough school garage >> sales you may just come across a stack or pallet of them. >> >> No, I don't have one. I've never even seen one in person (I don't >> think). But they're not rare. > >At one time I used one on a daily basis. I've not come across too many in >the surplus market. I'd like to find one eventually, but there is no way >I'm going to pay ebay value for one... > >I do have one of the matching drives in storage, so maybe it will attract >the rest of the system ;) > >I also used to use a clone type Apple II at one time, but I don't remember >who made it. Its case vaguely reminded me of an Apple III. It had two >built-in 5.25" floppy drives in the upper section of the case below where >the monitor sat. > >-Toth From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jul 23 15:11:45 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: help! shugart 801 In-Reply-To: <20030723030307.94794.qmail@web40704.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030723155854.48c7ed88@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:03 PM 7/22/03 -0700, you wrote: >Did you check the drives opto sensor's light path to >make sure that no dust bunnies are blocking the path? No I have to check that and some other signals. I didn't have a logic probe or scope with me when I was working on them so I need to do some basic checks. > >i have an osi/macom that uses the same drives and >after troubleshooting three good drives - i discovered >that the drive interface card and 1 cpu had been >pluged into the molex plug backplane backwords! > >one of these days i'll have to re chip and re cap both >boards. Ouch! Been there, done that :-( > >anyhoo, you may want to check out your controller to >insure that it is sending a head load signal. It is. I swapped in a 800-1 drive and it works fine so the cables and system are working. > >also on those drives,there are some wire jumpers that >may need to be set and soldered. Done that. I've checked, re-checked and triple checked the jumpers, etc. > >if i remember correctly - there is two different >boards used on those drives too - one is for hard >sectored and one is for soft sectored thier may be >another for mfm vs another standard too - double check >the boards on the drive's with your orignal - your >looking for the missing or complete parts on the fm >data sep and other silk screened areas and the wire >jumper location's at the back of the card edge >connector. Yes, the boards are different. The 800-1 has three power transistors on the board but the 801 doesn't. My docs show BTH drives having the transistors but none of these do. > >just rememebered my drives were siemens fdd 100-8 e >hope this helps anyway. Thanks for the suggestions. BTW do you have any doc for the Siemans drives? A friend of mine just bought a couple of them. They were sold to him as Shugart drives but they weren't. Now he's trying to figure out how to use them in place of Shugarts. Joe > >Bill > > >Message: 31 >Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:40:07 >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >From: Joe >Subject: help! shugart 801 >Cc: Dave Mabry >Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > I have several systems that use Shugart 800-1 SS >8" disk drives. >I've >got several defective drives plus I've been wanting >some spares. Last >week >I picked up 10 Shugart model 801 SS drives. Today I >tried to use them >on >the same systems but I can't make them work. I've set >all the jumpers >and >straps exactly the same as in the 800-1 drives but the >801s aren't >working. >The system knows the drive is there and detects the >disk being in place >and >rotating and that the drive door closed but the drive >never gets the >head >load signal. I'm using the same system, cables, power >supply, etc with >both >drives so the only difference is the drives >themselves. I've tried a >couple >of 801s and gotten exactly the same results with all >of them so I don't >think that it due to a drive failure. Anybody have any >experience with >these or have a good idea of what's wrong? > > Joe > >--__--__-- From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jul 23 15:15:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: Benchmark test software for the PC? In-Reply-To: <2602ac164c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030723161039.497fb072@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:54 PM 7/23/03 +0100, you wrote: >In message > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > >> Does anyone know of any free benchmark test software for the PC? >> Preferably something that runs in DOS mode that I can boot off a floppy >> (to avoid having to boot into Windows). >There was the "Landmark Speed Test" which gave stupid results on anything >faster than a 486 (IIRC). >There's also American Megatrends's AMIDIAG diagnostic kit - a few old >versions were given away on the cover of "PC Plus" magazine. >Finally, there's Whetstone and Dhrystone - leave them going for a good half >hour, then check the results. I used to use the benckmark function that's part of Checkit. I can't say how accurate it is for pentium and newer machines but it worked fine for 486 and lesser machines. I LIKE Checkit. I installed it on every machine that I worked on or used. Joe From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jul 23 16:07:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: Benchmark test software for the PC? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030723161039.497fb072@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Joe wrote: > >> Does anyone know of any free benchmark test software for the PC? > >> Preferably something that runs in DOS mode that I can boot off a floppy > >> (to avoid having to boot into Windows). > >There was the "Landmark Speed Test" which gave stupid results on anything > >faster than a 486 (IIRC). > >There's also American Megatrends's AMIDIAG diagnostic kit - a few old > >versions were given away on the cover of "PC Plus" magazine. > >Finally, there's Whetstone and Dhrystone - leave them going for a good half > >hour, then check the results. > > I used to use the benckmark function that's part of Checkit. I can't say > how accurate it is for pentium and newer machines but it worked fine for > 486 and lesser machines. I LIKE Checkit. I installed it on every machine > that I worked on or used. I need something for Pentium II and higher. Anything that was written pre-Pentium, such as Landmark which I used quite extensively, would give meaningless results on anything beyond a Pentium. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 23 16:11:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: scanning booklets for archive In-Reply-To: from "chris" at Jul 22, 3 09:40:28 pm Message-ID: > more time consuming then my current method. By cutting them in half I can > load them into the sheet feeder and do the entire first half of the book Ah, the copier I was using didn't have a sheet feeder, and for some reason I assumed your scanner didn't either... > things I want to not destroy. But not worth it for things that are being > thrown out right after scanning. It worries me (a lot) that you'd throw anything out after scanning it, considering that that paper version is easier to read and will last a lot longer than any scanned version... -tony From coredump at gifford.co.uk Wed Jul 23 16:12:46 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: WTD: 2114 RAMs In-Reply-To: <396263164c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> References: <396263164c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <3F1EF8F6.6070005@gifford.co.uk> Philip Pemberton wrote: > Has anyone got six (or more) 2114 RAMs they feel like parting with? John > Honniball (coredump at gifford dot co dot uk) was supposed to be sending me > some, but for some reason he's stopped answering my emails. Having trouble with the phone line -- will send 2114s tomorrow! -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From vance at neurotica.com Wed Jul 23 16:14:20 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: Using a Mac mono monitor with PC VGA In-Reply-To: <001701c35128$bc6b5bc0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: If it's fixed frequency, I don't think it qualifies as VGA. Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, TeoZ wrote: > I think there are fixed frequency VGA cards > > http://www.devo.com/video/ > > > Most likely it will be found on ebay > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Feldman, Robert" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 10:35 AM > Subject: RE: Using a Mac mono monitor with PC VGA > > > > It's an MO400, Apple High-Res Mono, 35 kHz Horizontal scan, 66.7 Hz > vertical scan. Looks like it won't work :(. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ian Primus [mailto:ian_primus@yahoo.com] > > Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 3:26 PM > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: Using a Mac mono monitor with PC VGA > > > > > > If it's a monochrome monitor, chances are that it won't work. A lot of > > those old monitors were fixed frequency, and can't be driven by a PC > > VGA card. > > From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jul 23 16:16:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: Panasonic KXP4400 Laser Printer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Hanan Friedman wrote: > > > I have the same drum problem. I appreciate very much if you could help > > me on advise of how to put the printer into Service Mode and reset the > > page counter to 00000 > > I've noticed in the past few weeks a lot of messages from newbies that > don't seem to be subscribed to the list, but who are responding to old > messages or just posting general questions and such. Was the list > address posted as some sort of open help forum in some news article or > something? > > Or is this just the magic of Google? Google, combined with changing all the From: email addresses in the archives to point back to the list... -Toth From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Jul 23 16:30:01 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 In-Reply-To: Fred Cisin's message of "Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:11:41 -0700 (PDT)" References: <009101c35118$ab5d76c0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> <20030723100127.N43280@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <200307232114.h6NLEZL0089400@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Fred Cisin wrote: > 3.xx added support for path in executution (you could run a program that > was in a different directory than the one that you were in) Typo? I remember MS-DOS 2.11? on the HP150A in 1983 supporting a PATH environment variable which COMMAND.COM would use to search for executable programs. -Frank McConnell From donm at cts.com Wed Jul 23 16:46:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: help! shugart 801 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030723155854.48c7ed88@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Joe wrote: < SNIP > > Thanks for the suggestions. BTW do you have any doc for the Siemans > drives? A friend of mine just bought a couple of them. They were sold to > him as Shugart drives but they weren't. Now he's trying to figure out how > to use them in place of Shugarts. Joe, the only thing that I could find on Siemens 8" drives is this rather ancient bit from Fritz Chwolka in February '96. (I have a hunch from the header that it dates back to Bill Blue's 'pnet' on his (then) CTS.COM. I am unsure whether this will help your friend or not since I don't know what model drive he has. - don SIEMENS >From news3.cts.com!newshub.cts.com!news.sprintlink.net!noc.netcom.net!news3.noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!peanuts.nacamar.de!ginsterk.k.ginster.de!ginsterac.ac.ginster.de!cyber!news Wed Feb 7 12:43:06 1996 Path: news3.cts.com!newshub.cts.com!news.sprintlink.net!noc.netcom.net!news3.noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!peanuts.nacamar.de!ginsterk.k.ginster.de!ginsterac.ac.ginster.de!cyber!news From: fritz_chwolka@AC.CyberCity.de (FRITZ CHWOLKA) Newsgroups: comp.os.cpm Subject: Re> Siemens 8"drive Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 Feb 1996 23:28:44 +0100 Organization: CyberCity GmbH, Aachen Lines: 47 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi.. this sheet was shown in the c't 1987, subscription #7, page 176. . +------+--------------------+-----------------------------+ | | | | | BUS- | Siemens | Shugart | | PIN | FD 100-8 D | SA 810/860 | +------+--------------------+-----------------------------+ | 2 | - | Ext. Wrt. Current | | | | switching (opt) | | 4 | - | - | | 6 | - | - | | 8 | - | True Ready (opt) | | 10 | - | Two Sided (opt) | | 12 | Disk change | Disk change (opt) | | 14 | - | Side select | | 16 | In Use | In Use (opt) | | 18 | HDLD | Moto On / head load | | 20 | Index | Index | | 22 | Ready | Ready | | 24 | Sector | Sector | | 26 | Select 0 | Driver select1/side select | | 28 | Select 1 | Driver select2/side select | | 30 | Select 2 | Driver select3/side select | | 32 | Select 3 | Driver select4/side select | | 34 | Step in | Directory select/side sel. | | 36 | Step | Step | | 38 | Wrt. Data | Write DATA | | 40 | Write | Write Gate | | 42 | Track 0 | Track 0 | | 44 | WRT.Protect | Write Protect | | 46 | Raw Data | read data | | 48 | sep. data(opt) | sep data | | 50 | sep. clock(opt) | sep clock | +------+--------------------+-----------------------------+ | type | SS , 8" 77track | SS / DS , 8" 77track | +------+--------------------+-----------------------------+ . This is the only information I have...for the moment. For other drive I have prints but not for the Siemens. I hope this helps , instead I didn't read the original letter. I have some old Siemens CP/M-systems with 8"diskdrives and 10MB Harddisk but they have an Shugart DS/DD 8" disk inside. Greetings Fritz Chwolka From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jul 23 16:53:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:38:59 2005 Subject: Token ring (UK) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030722214037.02b1c360@mail.zipcon.net> References: <2368.65.123.179.144.1058853265.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20030722214037.02b1c360@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Geoff Reed wrote: > At 10:24 PM 7/22/03 -0400, you wrote: > > > Nosiree. Any PC, any RS/6000, really, any machine with PCI can do > > token ring. > > Token ring didn't require PCI bus, I have some ISA Token ring cards > around here somewhere And it isn't limited just to PCs. I've seen NuBus Token Ring cards at a university I did work for, and of course there are HP JetDirect cards that support Token Ring. Madge still makes ISA/PCI/PCMCIA Token Ring cards, and 3Com and IBM both made (and may still sell) several different models of ISA and PCI cards. There were also many other smaller companies who made ISA cards, but I haven't seen too many "generic" PCI cards. On the subject of unusual networks...has anyone come across any fiber based Arcnet devices? I have a pair of SMC fiber Arcnet cards that came from a fellow list member, but it appears they need a concentrator and/or converters to be used. Some of the building automation system computers I tinker with use Arcnet to communicate with each other, and it should be possible to get them to play nice over fiber if I can scrounge up all of the components. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jul 23 16:57:01 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: Token ring (UK) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Geoff Reed wrote: > > At 10:24 PM 7/22/03 -0400, you wrote: > > > > > Nosiree. Any PC, any RS/6000, really, any machine with PCI can do > > > token ring. > > > > Token ring didn't require PCI bus, I have some ISA Token ring cards > > around here somewhere > > Yes, but the ISA token ring cards aren't as well supported as the PCI > ones. Of course the real reason for that is that many, many more chipsets were used for ISA cards, whereas there are only a handful of chipsets that are used for PCI cards. Some OS such as Linux are gaining more and more support for these kinds of boards, though it would be nice if *BSD had the same level of support. -Toth From vance at neurotica.com Wed Jul 23 17:21:01 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: Token ring (UK) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Tothwolf wrote: > > > > Nosiree. Any PC, any RS/6000, really, any machine with PCI can do > > > > token ring. > > > > > > Token ring didn't require PCI bus, I have some ISA Token ring cards > > > around here somewhere > > > > Yes, but the ISA token ring cards aren't as well supported as the PCI > > ones. > > Of course the real reason for that is that many, many more chipsets were > used for ISA cards, whereas there are only a handful of chipsets that > are used for PCI cards. Some OS such as Linux are gaining more and more > support for these kinds of boards, though it would be nice if *BSD had > the same level of support. There's a significant level of support in BSD for TP, because it came from IBM AOS. Peace... Sridhar From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Wed Jul 23 17:35:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: FREE for Pickup Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030723182513.00a616d0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Anyone in Central Florida want a 4 camera printed circuit board inspection machine missing it's cards? Was working before stored, but now not firing up. Free for pick up if this happens. From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Jul 23 17:39:01 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: Data Systems Design DSD-880 8" floppy and hard drive? References: <3.0.6.16.20030717205309.3daf3460@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <010a01c34e66$3097a0a0$0200a8c0@cosmo> <3F1B30BB.B6D94BF9@compsys.to> <3F1C4F1C.1050604@tiac.net> <3F1CAEB1.E6DDE67D@compsys.to> <3F1DD0FF.6050803@tiac.net> <3F1DF0AE.1B493126@compsys.to> Message-ID: <3F1F0DDA.7030503@tiac.net> Jerome H. Fine wrote: >>Bob Shannon wrote: >> > >>The DSD boxes I used do not emulate DEC drives, and made the 45 meg hard >>drive >>available as a single device. >> > >Jerome Fine replies: > >As far as I know, the DSD 880/8 and the DSD 880/30 all used >only a Qbus controller. And they accepted the standard DEC >device drivers in RT-11. > Oh no, there is a unibus DSD controller, I'm absolutley positive about this. I've owned two, and serviced a great many back in the Eli Heffron days. > > >There may have been other DSD boxes in addition the the DSD 880 >and DSD 440, but I had not heard about them, let alone the details. > >>I have, err, well, Jay West has a DSD floppy-only (RX-02) emulation in >>his 11/34a out >>in my garage, and that does use the standard driver. >> > >That was the DSD 440 which emulated the RX02. For this drive, >I used BOTH a Unibus controller on a PDP-11/34 and a Qbus >controller on an LSI-11 within a VT103. What I found MOST >amazing at the time (1979) was that the same RX02 floppy would >BOOT on BOTH the Unibus and the Qbus systems even though >the hardware was so different - especially the CPUs. RT-11 >was able to self-configure on the fly to whichever hardware was >present during the boot phase. > >>I guess DSD had many varients, and we must be talking about different >>products. >> > >Seems like it. BUT the header stated DSD 880, so I went along >with it. Any idea what the actual hardware was? > >>But the unibus version of the DSD interface for the floppy-hard drive >>combo's I've >>worked with all needed a DSD driver for RT-11. >> > >Again, was that a DSD 880/8? If so, DSD did provide a driver >for the RL02 interface which normally used 10 MBytes to allow >for the 8 MByte hard drive. I don't feel that this was a special >DSD driver that was essential since the standard DL(X).SYS >could be used with the DSD 880/8 to give a 5 MByte usage >of the hard drive as an RL01 drive. That meant that 3 MBytes >were lost to the user, but it would still work with the standard >distributed DEC RT-11 device driver. > >Sincerely yours, > >Jerome Fine > All my DSD experiance is unibus based. Qbus machines have no blinkenlights, and are in my eyes, unworthy. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jul 23 17:52:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030723153727.48dffdf8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030723153727.48dffdf8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030723154444.G45946@newshell.lmi.net> On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Joe wrote: > IIRC the first one that supported sub-directories was DOS 2.1. Officaily > it was probably DOS 2.0 but I don't think I've ever seen 2.0. It WAS 2.00, and there WAS a 2.00 in both PC-DOS AND MS-DOS for a long time. 2.00 came out along with the XT. PC-DOS 2.10 came out along with the Jr and the "Portable" (Compaq wannabe based on the XT motherboard). > I've seen > lots of 2.1 and 2.11 but not 2.0. What's it worth to you? From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jul 23 18:04:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 In-Reply-To: <200307232114.h6NLEZL0089400@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <009101c35118$ab5d76c0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> <20030723100127.N43280@newshell.lmi.net> <200307232114.h6NLEZL0089400@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <20030723155457.E45946@newshell.lmi.net> On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Frank McConnell wrote: > Fred Cisin wrote: > > 3.xx added support for path in executution (you could run a program that > > was in a different directory than the one that you were in) > > Typo? I remember MS-DOS 2.11? on the HP150A in 1983 supporting a > PATH environment variable which COMMAND.COM would use to search for > executable programs. No, I wasn't clear what I meant. If you are in the \SUB1 directory, in DOS 2.xx, and you wanted to run WS from the WORDSTAR directory, you had to either have \WORDSTAR listed in your PATH command (environment variable), or do CD \WORDSTAR and THEN type WS. Starting with 3.00, you could type \WORDSTAR\WS to run it. (2.xx did not permit a subdirectory path as part of the command portion of the command line) From ian_primus at yahoo.com Wed Jul 23 18:24:00 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: Sunshine EPROM programmer for Apple II Message-ID: <464876A6-BD64-11D7-9D8B-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> While cleaning, I ran across an old EPROM programmer for an Apple II computer. The only label on it is "Sunshine". Searching on the 'net has turned up nothing on this card, but some information on the PC version of the programmer. An EPROM programmer would be a very useful thing for some of the projects I would like to work on, but I don't have any software or information on this card. Does anyone have the software or manual or any information on this? Thanks! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jul 23 18:33:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030723122928.T43280@newshell.lmi.net> On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Karl Paul wrote: > Joe, Not so. Ehhh, you're BOTH wrong :-) > The DOS 1.0 manual has no reference to Microsoft. The first page of the > manual of DOS 1.1 states Disk Operation System, by Microsoft. The DOS > 1.0 just states Disk Operation System. The part number is not the same > either. Some of the early copies of PC-DOS 1.1 (including the one that I bought the day that it first was availabel) were sold in DOS 1.0 binders, with an added sticker, but with the old part number. Did they later come out with a new binder? Some pages WERE different. Was it a whole new printing, or did they go through and change just those pages? From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jul 23 18:33:30 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 In-Reply-To: <200307232114.h6NLEZL0089400@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <009101c35118$ab5d76c0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> <20030723100127.N43280@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030723192354.3cdf6b6c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:14 PM 7/23/03 -0700, Frank McConnell wrote: >Fred Cisin wrote: >> 3.xx added support for path in executution (you could run a program that >> was in a different directory than the one that you were in) > >Typo? I remember MS-DOS 2.11? on the HP150A in 1983 supporting a >PATH environment variable which COMMAND.COM would use to search for >executable programs. > I'm not sure when the PATH feature was added to IBM PC DOS but it wasn't uncommon for different manufacturers to add features in different versions. In fact, the same versions from different manufacturers seldom had exactly the same features. Compaq always seemed to add features to earlier versions of DOS than IBM did. Joe >- From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jul 23 18:34:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20030723154444.G45946@newshell.lmi.net> References: <3.0.6.16.20030723153727.48dffdf8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030723153727.48dffdf8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030723193010.0f7f9d42@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:47 PM 7/23/03 -0700, Fred wrote: >On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Joe wrote: >> IIRC the first one that supported sub-directories was DOS 2.1. Officaily >> it was probably DOS 2.0 but I don't think I've ever seen 2.0. > >It WAS 2.00, and there WAS a 2.00 in both PC-DOS AND MS-DOS for a long >time. 2.00 came out along with the XT. PC-DOS 2.10 came out along with >the Jr and the "Portable" (Compaq wannabe based on the XT motherboard). > >> I've seen >> lots of 2.1 and 2.11 but not 2.0. >What's it worth to you? Absolutely zip! Joe From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jul 23 18:36:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030723154929.48d7ef0a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030723154929.48d7ef0a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030723163031.O45946@newshell.lmi.net> On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Joe wrote: > Let me make this REAL clear. I've had both DOS 1.0 and 1.1 and they were > identical except for different disks and a paper sticker on the package > that said "DOS 1.1". I'm also fairly sure that there was no other mention > of hte DOs version anywhere else in the package except of the disks > themselves. I specificly checked the part number printed on the packages > and they were exactly the same. I didn't go through EVERY page in the > manual but the 20 or so pages that I checked, including the title page, > indexs, introduction, copyright, etc, were all exactly the same. I'm not Would you mind checking the pages for FORMAT, to see if they were changed to add the /1 option (my copy was) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jul 23 18:37:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: Sunshine EPROM programmer for Apple II In-Reply-To: <464876A6-BD64-11D7-9D8B-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030723193459.3c773b92@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I used to have the manual for the PC version and it looked extermely easy to use. Everything was menu driven. IF you can find the software you should be home free. IIRC the PC version programmed 2716s to 27512s. Joe At 07:20 PM 7/23/03 -0400, you wrote: >While cleaning, I ran across an old EPROM programmer for an Apple II >computer. The only label on it is "Sunshine". Searching on the 'net has >turned up nothing on this card, but some information on the PC version >of the programmer. An EPROM programmer would be a very useful thing for >some of the projects I would like to work on, but I don't have any >software or information on this card. Does anyone have the software or >manual or any information on this? Thanks! > >Ian Primus >ian_primus@yahoo.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jul 23 18:42:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030723193010.0f7f9d42@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030723153727.48dffdf8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030723153727.48dffdf8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030723193010.0f7f9d42@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030723163648.X45946@newshell.lmi.net> > >> I've seen > >> lots of 2.1 and 2.11 but not 2.0. > >What's it worth to you? On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Joe wrote: > Absolutely zip! Congratulations, you are now the high bidder! From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jul 23 18:52:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20030723122928.T43280@newshell.lmi.net> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030723194952.3c8fd988@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:28 PM 7/23/03 -0700, Fred wrote: >On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Karl Paul wrote: >> Joe, Not so. > >Ehhh, you're BOTH wrong :-) > >> The DOS 1.0 manual has no reference to Microsoft. The first page of the >> manual of DOS 1.1 states Disk Operation System, by Microsoft. The DOS >> 1.0 just states Disk Operation System. The part number is not the same >> either. > >Some of the early copies of PC-DOS 1.1 (including the one that I bought >the day that it first was availabel) were sold in DOS 1.0 binders, with an >added sticker, but with the old part number. Er, that's exactly what I said. > >Did they later come out with a new binder? I'm not 100% certain but I don't think so. The only ones that I ever saw that were different had had some change pages added but the manual was ****basicly**** the same. I think they did add a page in the front that had a second copyright date. I don't remember if they changed the PN on the binder or not. OK I went and got out my DOS 1.1 package. They added two "Read Me First" pages to the beginning of the manual. Those pages talk about DOS 1.1 and it's additional memory requirement. Also 320k drive support and the /1 switch for the FORMAT command. I'm not going to go through the entire manual but IIRC some of the manual pages were also changed. The PN on the binder is 6024001 and the PN on the disk is 6936669. The binder does has the paper "DOS 1.1" sticker on it. Joe > >Some pages WERE different. Was it a whole new printing, or did they go >through and change just those pages? From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jul 23 18:54:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20030723163031.O45946@newshell.lmi.net> References: <3.0.6.16.20030723154929.48d7ef0a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030723154929.48d7ef0a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030723195128.3c7743f6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:32 PM 7/23/03 -0700, you wrote: >On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Joe wrote: >> Let me make this REAL clear. I've had both DOS 1.0 and 1.1 and they were >> identical except for different disks and a paper sticker on the package >> that said "DOS 1.1". I'm also fairly sure that there was no other mention >> of hte DOs version anywhere else in the package except of the disks >> themselves. I specificly checked the part number printed on the packages >> and they were exactly the same. I didn't go through EVERY page in the >> manual but the 20 or so pages that I checked, including the title page, >> indexs, introduction, copyright, etc, were all exactly the same. I'm not > >Would you mind checking the pages for FORMAT, to see if they were changed >to add the /1 option (my copy was) Yes, they describe the \1 switch. It's also described in some "Read Me First" pages in the front of the manual. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jul 23 18:54:15 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20030723163648.X45946@newshell.lmi.net> References: <3.0.6.16.20030723193010.0f7f9d42@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030723153727.48dffdf8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030723153727.48dffdf8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030723193010.0f7f9d42@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030723195213.0fe70a5c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:37 PM 7/23/03 -0700, you wrote: >> >> I've seen >> >> lots of 2.1 and 2.11 but not 2.0. >> >What's it worth to you? > >On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Joe wrote: >> Absolutely zip! > >Congratulations, you are now the high bidder! > Er, thanks :-/ Joe From nico at farumdata.dk Wed Jul 23 19:03:01 2003 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: 8-inch disk drives References: <20030715141324.7071.qmail@jaydemail.com> <20030717093320.K81976@newshell.lmi.net> <001901c34fbc$4f255b00$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> <20030721121913.J21624@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <019501c350d6$b4f6c340$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin" To: Cc: > The MicrosSolutions Floppy controller (Compaticard) IS an 8bit ISA PC 1.2M > controller. > THE ONLY difference is SOFTWARE! > It ALSO will "only recognize 512 byte sectors and > only DOS file systems". -- This is definitely not true. I've read and written IBM 3740 SSSD disks, and read DSDD (1024 bytes) And "Uniform" (the > software package from MicroSolutions) does NOT do Minc. --- Correct. It is mostly CP/M AFAIR Nico From mhstein at canada.com Wed Jul 23 19:03:33 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: Looking for an S-100 system Message-ID: <01C350B7.F4C515E0@mse-d03> Well, I imagine you'll get quite a few offers, but FWIW I do happen to have a few S-100 systems, to wit, a number of Cromemcos and a couple of Vector MZs. I do also have all the documentation for them, system manuals and manuals for all the individual cards, as well as the system software (CDOS and CROMIX, CP/M and Unix wannabes) and some applications, also with manuals. Mind you, being multi-user systems, they're not quite as simple in design as most of the S-100/CP/M systems out there. I don't think I have the original cards for the Vectors, as I also populated them with Cromemco cards, but I could look; in any case no docs. The problem as always is the shipping; I'm located in Toronto, and S-100 systems tend to have rather heavy linear power supplies. A couple of other list members in my part of the world have expressed interest and of course they will have priority as soon as I find the time to sort it all out, and I'm assuming that shipping will probably make it impractical for you, but if not and you don't get any better offers, let me know and we'll see what we can work out. Good luck, mike -----------------------------Original message-------------------------- From: "Ernest" To: Subject: Looking for an S-100 system Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:23:07 -0700 Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org I am interested in acquiring an S-100 CP/M system and I'm hoping that someone here might have one that they might sell or trade to me. I've never had an S100 type computer but I've always passively wanted one to tinker with. I don't have a particular make or model in mind but I have a general idea of what I'm looking for. Basically, I'm looking for one that I won't be afraid to work on, like an Altair or some other very rare or valuable old computer. An example that I was thinking of was a Northstar Horizon, since it's not rare, has floppy drives, and it follows the standard s100 bus architecture (I think.) The Vector Graphic Vector 1 is another system that seems to be fairly simple in design but I'm not sure how rare/expensive they are. I don't want to spend a fortune, and I'm not looking for anything highly collectable -just something simple and ordinary that I can work on and play with, and repair if something breaks. Thanks, E From nico at farumdata.dk Wed Jul 23 19:03:47 2003 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: 8-inch disk drives References: <20030718065644.6712.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000c01c350df$4e1c1c20$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> Subject: Re: 8-inch disk drives --- Fred Cisin wrote: > DONE. > the 1.2M controller in the PC will operate MOST (those wishing to list > obscure exceptions,...) 8" "industry standard" drives, probably including > ones borrowed from the minc. Being rather new (3-4 days) to this list, I dont know if what I am going to say now, has been discussed before. If so, please forgive me. There seems to be a lot of discussions regarding handling old / odd floppy disk formats. What Fred said above is a truth with severe limitations. It is my experience, that modern floppy controllers, and _especially_ those embedded on motherboards, will not read anything other then 3.5" disks (720K, 1.44M and 2.88M) and 5.25" (360K, 1.2M). The older formats, like 5.25" 320K, not to speak of 160K are not supported, or should I say are not supported on the systems I've delivered for the last 8-10 years. Please note that I only take MS-DOs formats in consideration. Anything other, like CP/M or 8" disks, is totally out. There was a mention of MicroSolutions UniForm software. The software (at least the version I had) was able to read (some) CP/M formats by doing nasty things to the parameters in the floppy controller. When I tried it again some years ago, it was a total flop, probably because of the limitations as described above. So, what is the solution if you have some disks which are non-MS-DOS or MS-DOS with strange capacities? The first thing that comes to mind, is to get an old ISA card with floppy controller. There are many "super I/O" controllers to be found which support hard disk (maybe even up to 500 megs! ) floppies, printer and 2 COM ports. Those cards can normally be strapped, so only the floppy part is active. When you _then_ try with UniForm, you might succeed. The second thing you could do, is to save an old 386 from the scrapheap just for this purpose. Or maybe even a museum piece: the IBM AT. In other words : the older the better. Nico From LAAG at PACBELL.NET Wed Jul 23 19:04:02 2003 From: LAAG at PACBELL.NET (ROBERT LAAG) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: computer automation... Message-ID: <3F1EE221.9625D6A9@PACBELL.NET> new to the dialog here but was just wondering if there were any interest in the computer automation stuff??? I have a couple of lsi-2 systems running and an alpha-16 stored... From ernestls at comcast.net Wed Jul 23 19:04:16 2003 From: ernestls at comcast.net (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: Kaypro PC ? Message-ID: Kaypro made a computer that they released after their portables but before their IBM clone. It was in a flat metal case that was shorter and smaller than their AT case. I can't remember what it was called. I've only seen one reference to it but the website is gone. Does anyone remember the system that I'm thinking of? I think (?) that it was an 8086 system but it might have been a single board Z80. From roll at stupi.se Wed Jul 23 19:04:41 2003 From: roll at stupi.se (Peter Lothberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: IBM system 3 Re:PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650) on ebay) Message-ID: "Mysterious PDP-10's in Stockholm". There is lot's of stuff in the wharehouse... KA10 2 (110V, complete, unknown condition gift from SC-group) BBN Pager 1 Sails's KA pager KI10 4 Three complete, Simon, UCI, Medecindata, Aarhus KL10A 1 "MIT-MC" complete with T300 disks on PDP11 KL10B (1090) 2 Oden (QZ Stockholm) (complete) KL10B (1091) 1 Tempest (Foa studielabb) (complete) KL10B (2065) 1 Vera (KTH) KS10 3 SC-group, TSL-data Clones; SC30 3 One in working condition (gift from SC-Group) TOAD-1 1 Working With the exception of A PDP-6 (have only one card Pulsed BUS Transceiver 1665D) the Foonley's and the Minnow and a SC40, I beleive there is a complete collection of PDP-10's. Lot's of stuff, like a SA-10 IBM chanel adapter, cards, manuals, spares, perpherials: TU77, TU78, TU45, RP07, RP20, RP06, TU70, TU71, DN87, DN200, TU55, TU56, RH10, DF10, DC10 DS10, RM05. And enough IO-bus, Memory-Bus, Massbus etyc cables to put it together. There is other related stuff like one of the original CADR's, PDP8/E, PDP9, PDP12/LINC12.. I don't remember what hapened to "Katia", when the Stacken management decided to destroy the PDP10's, some equipment and tools (like my 2020- extender-card, 7-trk ITS distribution, Rp06 aligment pack) was lost. Pices of Katia might be in the warehouse. Idea was to attach the BBN-pager to a working KA. As for proof, here are some pictures, as you can se it's packed, and unless someone provides a very compelling argument, it will stay packed. http://www.stupi.se/Bilder/pdp-10/index.html -Peter Ps: I'm not a member of the mailinglist, so please send me questions direct. From bill at timeguy.com Wed Jul 23 19:04:55 2003 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: Token ring (UK) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030723094620.G52649-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> We've been running IP over token-ring for years. Last year, we upgraded all our machines (200 of them) and in the process replaced almost all of our token-ring hubs with ethernet switches, and our TR nics with ethernet cards. We have a few old servers and some specialized machines that are still on TR; we have a Madge "Smart RingSwitch" with both token-ring and ethernet modules in it; it routes at the MAC layer, and seems to work great. On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: > No, You can use a Novell server with Token-Ring and even route between > machines > on Token-Ring and Ethernet. I don't know if there are any TCP/ IP over > Token Ring solutions > though. > > > On Monday, July 21, 2003, at 10:54 PM, ghldbrd@ccp.com wrote: > > > I have a box full of token-ring adapters, IBM new in the box, and can't > > find a nibble here in the States. I've been told that token ring > > netowrking is an IBM only system, and requies an IBM server to play. > > > > Guess that's why everyone went to Ethernet. > > > > Gary Hildebrand > > St. Joseph, MO > > > > > >> Am clearing out my garage to make space for a PDP 11/34. > >> Is there any interest at all in a fair-sized pile of token ring stuff > >> - > >> some > >> 4MHz, some 4/16MHz (cards [inc unused PCMCIA], cables, MAUs etc) or > >> should > >> it all go to the dump. > >> eBay prices appear to be too low to be worth the bother. > >> I suspect that thge only people who might be interested in collecting > >> TR > >> have already been able to pick up as much as they want. > >> > >> This is in Rayleigh, Essex (England) > >> > >> Andy From bill at timeguy.com Wed Jul 23 19:05:11 2003 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: Token ring (UK) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030722214037.02b1c360@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <20030723094953.T52649-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> And microchannel; don't forget microchannel. The original "plug and play" (except _it_ worked...) On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Geoff Reed wrote: > At 10:24 PM 7/22/03 -0400, you wrote: > > >Nosiree. Any PC, any RS/6000, really, any machine with PCI can do token > >ring. > > Token ring didn't require PCI bus, I have some ISA Token ring cards around > here somewhere From aek at spies.com Wed Jul 23 19:07:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: help! shugart 801 Message-ID: <200307240006.h6O06ShZ028391@spies.com> > For other drive I have prints but not for the Siemens. www.spies.com/aek/pdf/siemens/ From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Jul 23 19:08:01 2003 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: Dec RA60 Drives and HSC40 Controller... worth rescuing? References: Message-ID: <01ec01c35177$234505f0$de2c67cb@helpdesk> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Thompson" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 11:59 AM Subject: Re: Dec RA60 Drives and HSC40 Controller... worth rescuing? > On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Corda Albert J DLVA wrote: > > > Hey guys, > > > > I just ran across a couple of DEC RA60 (removable pack) drives > > and a HSC40 controller at a local dealer. They know _nothing_ > > about this stuff, save that it's _heavy_. > > > > Normally, I would not hesitate, but my collection is starting > > to get out of hand, and I have to start limiting myself...eventually ;-) > > If this is the case, now might be the time to start limiting yourself. > The HSC would need its bootable media, probably CRONIC on 5.25" floppies. CRONIC for sure. On a HSC40 or 50 the boot media would be a DEC tape, can't remember the model, have a '50 or two with them. The floppy bootable versions started with the HSC70. I have boot media for the HSC50 not sure if it's compatible with the HSC40 though. Someone here (Antonio Carlini?) will know. > You would need a CI card, cables and star coupler. (You did not say if > you have these already) Certainly need them. > The RA60's are small capacity power eaters. You're probably better > watching for a HSJx0 on ebay and running your cluster via scsi. Basically a PDP-11 dedicated as a disk controller, ~500w. Have yet to see an affordable HSJ anywhere, but if you can get one that would be a lot simpler to keep in drives and a lot cheaper to run Geoff in Oz From aek at spies.com Wed Jul 23 19:09:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: computer automation... Message-ID: <200307240009.h6O098Nq028625@spies.com> > new to the dialog here but was just wondering if there were any interest in the computer automation stuff??? -- I'm interested in getting copies of any software and documentation that you might still have. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jul 23 19:13:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030723195128.3c7743f6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030723154929.48d7ef0a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030723154929.48d7ef0a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030723195128.3c7743f6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030723170226.B45946@newshell.lmi.net> On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Joe wrote: > Yes, they describe the \1 switch. It's also described in some "Read Me > First" pages in the front of the manual. It might even be the ONLY change, but that is certainly different from what is in the 1.0 manual. One would have to be very intent on having a COMPLETE collection to feel a need to have both. I sold my PC-DOS 1.0 I'll have to look further to find my PC-DOS 1.10, and MS-DOS 1.25 and Joe is the current high bidder for PC-DOS 2.00 Any bids on PC-DOS 2.10, 3.00, 3.20 etc? From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jul 23 19:35:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: 8-inch disk drives In-Reply-To: <000c01c350df$4e1c1c20$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> References: <20030718065644.6712.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> <000c01c350df$4e1c1c20$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> Message-ID: <20030723171557.K45946@newshell.lmi.net> > > DONE. > > the 1.2M controller in the PC will operate MOST (those wishing to list > > obscure exceptions,...) 8" "industry standard" drives, probably including > > ones borrowed from the minc. > On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Nico de Jong wrote: > There seems to be a lot of discussions regarding handling old / odd > floppy disk formats. What Fred said above is a truth with severe > limitations. It is my experience, that modern floppy controllers, and > _especially_ those embedded on motherboards, will not read anything > other then 3.5" disks (720K, 1.44M and 2.88M) and 5.25" (360K, 1.2M). > The older formats, like 5.25" 320K, not to speak of 160K are not > supported, or should I say are not supported on the systems I've > delivered for the last 8-10 years. Please note that I only take MS-DOs > formats in consideration. Anything other, like CP/M or 8" disks, is > totally out. IF your hardware supports 360K, then your HARDWARE supports 320K and 160K. Any other problems you had were with your software. With proper cabling and jumpering of the drive, the controller doesn't know the difference between a 1.2M 5.25" and an 8" DSDD drive. (That is what the 5.25" 1.2M was originally INTENDED for!) > There was a mention of MicroSolutions UniForm software. The software (at > least the version I had) was able to read (some) CP/M formats by doing > nasty things to the parameters in the floppy controller. When I tried it hardly "nasty". They were fully documented settings to the table pointed at by INT 1Eh. Fun stuff. > again some years ago, it was a total flop, probably because of the > limitations as described above. WHAT limitations????? Are you having hardware problems, or software problems? > So, what is the solution if you have some disks which are non-MS-DOS or > MS-DOS with strange capacities? The first thing that comes to mind, is > to get an old ISA card with floppy controller. There are many "super > I/O" controllers to be found which support hard disk (maybe even up to > 500 megs! ) floppies, printer and 2 COM ports. Those cards can normally > be strapped, so only the floppy part is active. When you _then_ try with > UniForm, you might succeed. Be aware, that NT (including Win2K and XP) will try very hard to keep you from doing direct sector access. Other that THAT, neither the hardware nor OS (DOS,Win9x,ME) will interfere with Uniform, XenioCopy, MediaMaster, etc. > The second thing you could do, is to save an old 386 from the scrapheap > just for this purpose. Or maybe even a museum piece: the IBM AT. In > other words : the older the better. YES! But if it is lower density, such as 5.25" 360K, 720K, go with an XT. Your overall chances of success are much better with the older equipment, and using DOS instead of some of the new crap. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Jul 23 19:52:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: Panasonic KXP4400 Laser Printer Message-ID: <200307240038.RAA04893@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Sellam A while back there was one of these that Patrick Rigney responded to. He got no reply from that person. I have also replied to one such mail without a response. It seems to be a real slow way of fishing for email addresses but maybe that is what it is. It surely is funny since, so far, these seem to be bogus. The questions they ask sound like they almost know what they are doing but they are often right on the edge of being incorrect questions. I don't see what they are up to. Maybe this is used to create an exclusive list for the Nigerian letters. I get more of these now at this mail address then I do with my hotmail account. I'm only on two mail groups with this account. My hotmail is bursting with offers to enhance or reduce various parts of my body. I can't think why anyone smart enough to work on classic computers would be stupid enough to fall for one of these scams. I've even started replying to some of these scammers to let them know that their email address harvesting methods were being used by so many other scammers that they were most likely worthless. I do this in the hopes that they'll find some other method that doesn't include me. Dwight >From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > >On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Hanan Friedman wrote: > >> I have the same drum problem. I appreciate very much if you could help me on >> advise of how to put the printer into Service Mode and reset the page >> counter to 00000 > >I've noticed in the past few weeks a lot of messages from newbies that >don't seem to be subscribed to the list, but who are responding to old >messages or just posting general questions and such. Was the list address >posted as some sort of open help forum in some news article or something? > >Or is this just the magic of Google? > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Jul 23 20:08:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: Panasonic KXP4400 Laser Printer References: <200307240038.RAA04893@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <000a01c3517e$2a6b2560$347ca418@neo.rr.com> I have been getting alot of nigerian letters lately, something I really never got in the past at all. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dwight K. Elvey" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 8:38 PM Subject: Re: Panasonic KXP4400 Laser Printer > Hi Sellam > A while back there was one of these that Patrick Rigney > responded to. He got no reply from that person. I have also > replied to one such mail without a response. > It seems to be a real slow way of fishing for email addresses > but maybe that is what it is. It surely is funny since, > so far, these seem to be bogus. The questions they ask sound > like they almost know what they are doing but they are often > right on the edge of being incorrect questions. > I don't see what they are up to. Maybe this is used to create > an exclusive list for the Nigerian letters. I get more of these > now at this mail address then I do with my hotmail account. > I'm only on two mail groups with this account. My hotmail is > bursting with offers to enhance or reduce various parts of > my body. > I can't think why anyone smart enough to work on classic computers > would be stupid enough to fall for one of these scams. I've > even started replying to some of these scammers to let them know that > their email address harvesting methods were being used by so many > other scammers that they were most likely worthless. I do this > in the hopes that they'll find some other method that doesn't > include me. > Dwight > > > >From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > > > >On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Hanan Friedman wrote: > > > >> I have the same drum problem. I appreciate very much if you could help me on > >> advise of how to put the printer into Service Mode and reset the page > >> counter to 00000 > > > >I've noticed in the past few weeks a lot of messages from newbies that > >don't seem to be subscribed to the list, but who are responding to old > >messages or just posting general questions and such. Was the list address > >posted as some sort of open help forum in some news article or something? > > > >Or is this just the magic of Google? > > > >-- > > > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rogersda at cox.net Wed Jul 23 20:24:01 2003 From: rogersda at cox.net (rogersda@cox.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: Dec RA60 Drives and HSC40 Controller... worth rescuing? Message-ID: <20030724010809.HZJJ10317.fed1mtao05.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> > > The HSC would need its bootable media, probably CRONIC on 5.25" floppies. > > CRONIC for sure. On a HSC40 or 50 the boot media would be a DEC tape, TU58 From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Jul 23 20:57:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: Dec RA60 Drives and HSC40 Controller... worth rescuing? In-Reply-To: <01ec01c35177$234505f0$de2c67cb@helpdesk> References: <01ec01c35177$234505f0$de2c67cb@helpdesk> Message-ID: <3776.4.20.168.214.1059011473.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > CRONIC for sure. On a HSC40 or 50 the boot media would be a DEC tape, > can't remember > the model, have a '50 or two with them. The floppy bootable versions > started with the HSC70. The HSC50 was the earliest model, and the ONLY model that used a TU58 tape cartridge to boot. > I have boot media for the HSC50 not sure if it's compatible with the HSC40 > though. No, it will only work on the HSC50. From vance at neurotica.com Wed Jul 23 21:46:01 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: Token ring (UK) In-Reply-To: <20030723094620.G52649-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Bill Richman wrote: > We've been running IP over token-ring for years. Last year, we upgraded > all our machines (200 of them) and in the process replaced almost all of > our token-ring hubs with ethernet switches, and our TR nics with > ethernet cards. We have a few old servers and some specialized machines > that are still on TR; we have a Madge "Smart RingSwitch" with both > token-ring and ethernet modules in it; it routes at the MAC layer, and > seems to work great. You downgraded to Ethernet, huh? Token Ring runs 2Gbps already. Peace... Sridhar From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jul 23 22:35:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: 8-inch disk drives In-Reply-To: <019501c350d6$b4f6c340$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> References: <20030715141324.7071.qmail@jaydemail.com> <20030717093320.K81976@newshell.lmi.net> <001901c34fbc$4f255b00$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> <20030721121913.J21624@newshell.lmi.net> <019501c350d6$b4f6c340$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> Message-ID: <20030723170929.B45946@newshell.lmi.net> > > The MicrosSolutions Floppy controller (Compaticard) IS an 8bit ISA PC 1.2M > > controller. > > THE ONLY difference is SOFTWARE! > > It ALSO will "only recognize 512 byte sectors and > > only DOS file systems". On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Nico de Jong wrote: > This is definitely not true. > I've read and written IBM 3740 SSSD disks, and read DSDD (1024 bytes) THAT is why it was in quotes. Because it was a SOFTWARE problem, being presented as a hardware one. Neither the MicroSolutions, nor generic PC floppy controllers can do anything special without special software, and neither are limited to "512 bytes and only DOS file systems" except as an issue of software. > And "Uniform" (the > > software package from MicroSolutions) does NOT do Minc. > --- > Correct. It is mostly CP/M AFAIR The MicroSolutions floppy controller (Compaticard) is a very nice one, but it won't help with Minc any more than a generic controller. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 23 22:35:46 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: 8-inch disk drives In-Reply-To: <000c01c350df$4e1c1c20$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> from "Nico de Jong" at Jul 23, 3 07:57:22 am Message-ID: > There seems to be a lot of discussions regarding handling old / odd > floppy disk formats. What Fred said above is a truth with severe > limitations. It is my experience, that modern floppy controllers, and > _especially_ those embedded on motherboards, will > not read anything other then 3.5" disks (720K, 1.44M and 2.88M) and > 5.25" (360K, 1.2M). > > The older formats, like 5.25" 320K, not to speak of 160K are not I am wonderign how on earth you can make a disk controller (note, not the OS driver software, the physocal controller) that works correctly with a 9-sector-per-track format, but fails with the 8 sector-per-track version, all other parameters being the same. Because that's the only difference between the 320K and 360K MS-DOS formats. Similarly, I can't understand how you can make a controller that works correcty with a DS disk but fails with the SS version. > supported, or should I say are not supported on the systems I've > delivered for the last 8-10 years. > Please note that I only take MS-DOs formats in consideration. Anything > other, like CP/M or 8" disks, is totally out. Err, considering that the 8" drive and the 1.2M 5.25" drive are very similar at the hardware interface level, it would be difficult to make a contorller that worked with one but which fails with the other. And some CP/M formats are pnysically almost identical to the standard 320K MS-DOS format. Hardware that can read one can also read the other. > > There was a mention of MicroSolutions UniForm software. The software > (at least the version I had) was able to read (some) CP/M formats by > doing nasty things to the parameters in the floppy controller. When I > tried it again some years ago, it was a total flop, probably because of > the limitations as described above. The main problem is that many PC disk controllers (going back to the original IBM card in the PC and PC/XT -- check the schematics) can't handle single density (FM) recording correctly. > scrapheap just for this purpose. Or maybe even a museum piece: the IBM > AT. In other words : the older the better. I happen to be typing this on a much-hacked PC/AT (orignal IBM, original motherboard with my own hardware mods, etc). Still works fine, and I have no intention of downgrading to a more modern machine. -tony From karlpaul36 at hotmail.com Wed Jul 23 22:36:02 2003 From: karlpaul36 at hotmail.com (Karl Paul) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 Message-ID: Ok somone out there must still have a copy of DOS 1.0. If so could you tell us what the P/N of the set is? I could be wrong. I have been before. :) Thanks, Karl Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:49:29 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org From: Joe Subject: Re: dos 1.0 Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Let me make this REAL clear. I've had both DOS 1.0 and 1.1 and they were identical except for different disks and a paper sticker on the package that said "DOS 1.1". I'm also fairly sure that there was no other mention of hte DOs version anywhere else in the package except of the disks themselves. I specificly checked the part number printed on the packages and they were exactly the same. I didn't go through EVERY page in the manual but the 20 or so pages that I checked, including the title page, indexs, introduction, copyright, etc, were all exactly the same. I'm not 100% sure but I don't think either of them mentioned MS. I did see a LATER DOs 1.1 package that had CHANGE pages added to it that was slightly different. I don't remember if it had the same part number and paper sticker or not. Joe At 02:09 PM 7/23/03 -0500, you wrote: >Joe, Not so. The DOS 1.0 manual has no reference to Microsoft. The first >page of the manual of DOS 1.1 states Disk Operation System, by Microsoft. >The DOS 1.0 just states Disk Operation System. The part number is not the >same either. > >Karl > > > >Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:00:22 >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >From: Joe >Subject: Re: dos 1.0 >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >If you have a DOS 1.1 manual then you have a DOS 1.0 manual. I've had and >seen several DOS 1.0 and 1.1 packages and the only difference between the >manuals was that the DOS 1.1 manuals had a paper sticker on them that said >"DOS 1.1". Even the part number on them was the same. > > Joe _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Jul 23 22:36:17 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: Token ring (UK) In-Reply-To: <20030723171034.92660.qmail@web21103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > Support for anything other than a Windows/DOS PC was pretty much non-existant > though and as we started using more and more Unix hardware (and the odd Mac, > and Linux on x86) on projects I ended up throwing a bit of Ethernet into the > pot, and things gradually started going that way by the time I left. It should be noted that the very first phase of the NSFnet was built around RTs with token ring cards. I still have one of the 8228 MAUs from the network. Later phases of the NSFnet used T960 Microchannel routing cards. These are very cool 80960* based devices that came in four flavors - ethernet, FDDI, V.35, and HSSI. Until about six years ago, an RS/6000 loaded with a few of these cards was just about the fastest router money could buy (except IBM apparently never sold the FDDI or HSSI flavors outside of the NSF). I have heard there was a token ring router card, but I have never seen one. There were apparently also T386 cards - the same technology but designed around the 80386 - but I have also never seen one. They could have been fantasy Microchannel cards. *running a stripped down AIX, no less. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jul 23 22:36:32 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: Benchmark test software for the PC? In-Reply-To: Vintage Computer Festival "Re: Benchmark test software for the PC?" (Jul 23, 13:56) References: Message-ID: <10307240141.ZM16661@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 23, 13:56, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I need something for Pentium II and higher. Anything that was written > pre-Pentium, such as Landmark which I used quite extensively, would give > meaningless results on anything beyond a Pentium. Well, that depends on what you're measuring, really. But most of the benchmarks mentioned only measure processor speed (mostly, as modified by memory/cache speed) and if you want to know how something will perform as web server, that's not very useful. You want a benchmark that will take into account I/O bandwidth, or more specifically, disk access. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jforbes2 at mindspring.com Wed Jul 23 22:37:00 2003 From: jforbes2 at mindspring.com (J Forbes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 Message-ID: <3F1F53C3.7010207@mindspring.com> > At 10:22 PM 7/22/03 -0700, you wrote: > >>>The IBM PC DOS 1.00 manual seems to be quite rare indeed...the 1.10 >>>version is not hard to find. What's fun is getting either running on a >>>hard drive in a 5150 :) > > > That would be interesting especailly since neither version supported > sub-directories! > > Joe I have a 5150 with a Davong hard drive, with an external power supply (the 5150 63 watt ps was not quite up to the task), running PC DOS 1.10. There was software provided by Davong with the necessary modified DOS files to make it work. The drive is partitioned, with no directories, ie. all the files in each drive are in the root area. The computer boots from a special floppy disk, and goes to the a: prompt which is the first partition on the hard drive...and c: is the floppy drive...rather odd for a PC user, but not so odd for a Kaypro 10 user. shows more. -- Jim Visit the Selectric Typewriter Museum! http://www.mindspring.com/~jforbes2 From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jul 23 22:53:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: computer automation... In-Reply-To: <3F1EE221.9625D6A9@PACBELL.NET> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, ROBERT LAAG wrote: > new to the dialog here but was just wondering if there were any > interest in the computer automation stuff??? I have a couple of lsi-2 > systems running and an alpha-16 stored... Hi Robert. Yes, I do have some Computer Automation system because I got a couple from you a few years ago ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cb at mythtech.net Wed Jul 23 22:56:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: scanning booklets for archive Message-ID: >It worries me (a lot) that you'd throw anything out after scanning it, >considering that that paper version is easier to read and will last a >lot longer than any scanned version... Space... I'm out of space. I can fits lots and lots of stacks of paper onto a single CD if I scan them all. -chris From jforbes2 at mindspring.com Wed Jul 23 23:20:00 2003 From: jforbes2 at mindspring.com (J Forbes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 Message-ID: <3F1F5DC1.3010306@mindspring.com> > On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Joe wrote: >> Yes, they describe the \1 switch. It's also described in some "Read Me >> First" pages in the front of the manual. > > It might even be the ONLY change, but that is certainly different > from what is in the 1.0 manual. > > One would have to be very intent on having a COMPLETE collection > to feel a need to have both. There appears to be quite a bit of 1.10 specific info in the manual I have...stuff in the apendices about double sided disks, etc. This is the Second Edition, May 1982, for version 1.10. I have a Columbia MS-DOS 1.25 manual also, which is quite primitive looking compared to the IBM docs. The Columbia manual apparently was written and printed by Microsoft, with a Columbia cover added to make it look oem. This manual is also copyright 1982. I am not quite intent enough to pay $$$ for a PC-DOS 1.00 manual...but if one drops out of the sky, I'll put it on the shelf with the rest of my almost complete PC-DOS collection. -- Jim Visit the Selectric Typewriter Museum! http://www.mindspring.com/~jforbes2 From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Wed Jul 23 23:20:34 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: Kaypro PC ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004301c3519a$63b0f220$947ba8c0@p933> Are you thinking of the Kaypro Robbie? http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=278 It doesn't match your description, but it's the only non-suitcase machine I can remember that wasn't PC compatible. Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ernest Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 11:45 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Kaypro PC ? Kaypro made a computer that they released after their portables but before their IBM clone. It was in a flat metal case that was shorter and smaller than their AT case. I can't remember what it was called. I've only seen one reference to it but the website is gone. Does anyone remember the system that I'm thinking of? I think (?) that it was an 8086 system but it might have been a single board Z80. From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jul 23 23:22:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:00 2005 Subject: Panasonic KXP4400 Laser Printer In-Reply-To: <000a01c3517e$2a6b2560$347ca418@neo.rr.com> References: <200307240038.RAA04893@clulw009.amd.com> <000a01c3517e$2a6b2560$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, TeoZ wrote: > From: "Dwight K. Elvey" > > > I don't see what they are up to. Maybe this is used to create an > > exclusive list for the Nigerian letters. I get more of these now at > > this mail address then I do with my hotmail account. I'm only on two > > mail groups with this account. My hotmail is bursting with offers to > > enhance or reduce various parts of my body. > > I can't think why anyone smart enough to work on classic computers > > would be stupid enough to fall for one of these scams. I've even > > started replying to some of these scammers to let them know that their > > email address harvesting methods were being used by so many other > > scammers that they were most likely worthless. I do this in the hopes > > that they'll find some other method that doesn't include me. > > I have been getting alot of nigerian letters lately, something I really > never got in the past at all. I've been getting them regularly too, mostly all from the same spammer, at least from the looks of the headers. I've also had one spammer sending me ads quite often, but the admin over his service does not seem to be willing to take action. I didn't get any spam at all until I started posting to classiccmp, and I suspect my address got harvested early on. The volume of spam hasn't increased too much, but even 2-3/day tends to be annoying. -Toth From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Wed Jul 23 23:27:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: dos 1.0 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004401c3519b$54863c50$947ba8c0@p933> DOS 1.0 P/N 6172212 (from the disk) BTW, I haven't seen mention of it, but there was a PC DOS 1.05 available shortly after 1.00 hit the streets. As it turns out there was a bug in BASIC that produced some interesting results from some calculations (I can't remember specifically) so they re-released DOS with a new BASIC and BASICA and upped the version to 1.05. I'm pretty sure that there are IBM labeled disks with that version number, but there was never a new manual. I have copies, but not originals, of that version. Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Karl Paul Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 5:44 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: re: dos 1.0 Ok somone out there must still have a copy of DOS 1.0. If so could you tell us what the P/N of the set is? I could be wrong. I have been before. :) Thanks, Karl Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:49:29 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org From: Joe Subject: Re: dos 1.0 Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Let me make this REAL clear. I've had both DOS 1.0 and 1.1 and they were identical except for different disks and a paper sticker on the package that said "DOS 1.1". I'm also fairly sure that there was no other mention of hte DOs version anywhere else in the package except of the disks themselves. I specificly checked the part number printed on the packages and they were exactly the same. I didn't go through EVERY page in the manual but the 20 or so pages that I checked, including the title page, indexs, introduction, copyright, etc, were all exactly the same. I'm not 100% sure but I don't think either of them mentioned MS. I did see a LATER DOs 1.1 package that had CHANGE pages added to it that was slightly different. I don't remember if it had the same part number and paper sticker or not. Joe At 02:09 PM 7/23/03 -0500, you wrote: >Joe, Not so. The DOS 1.0 manual has no reference to Microsoft. The first >page of the manual of DOS 1.1 states Disk Operation System, by Microsoft. >The DOS 1.0 just states Disk Operation System. The part number is not the >same either. > >Karl > > > >Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:00:22 >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >From: Joe >Subject: Re: dos 1.0 >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >If you have a DOS 1.1 manual then you have a DOS 1.0 manual. I've had and >seen several DOS 1.0 and 1.1 packages and the only difference between the >manuals was that the DOS 1.1 manuals had a paper sticker on them that said >"DOS 1.1". Even the part number on them was the same. > > Joe _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From classiccmp at crash.com Wed Jul 23 23:48:01 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: Eli Heffrons on Hampshire Street, Cambridge,MA, USA Message-ID: <200307240444.h6O4iQMP002914@io.crash.com> Bob Shannon wrote: . > I've owned two, and serviced a great many back in the Eli Heffron days. Yow! I drive by the site every now and again and shed a tear for what was once a wonderful place to lose an afternoon. Back around '89-91 I worked at MIT and Eli's was a prime source of parts for labs with tight hardware budgets to repair/upgrade their ailing MicroVAX II's and such. I remember wandering the shelves and seeing RX0n drive cabinets, whole pdp-11/44's, and other goodies that I didn't do anything about. What I did do was buy an SGI Iris 3130 with monitor -- nobody seemed to know what it was, but I got it to boot. I believe I paid $2k for that thing with 20" color monitor, and hauled it home in a friend's car. Fooled around with that for a couple months but something in the monitor went, probably a flyback. I decided by that time that I needed a Sun for a project I wanted to do when I returned to college (anybody remember UCB's Sprite?), so I sold the thing with a dead monitor for the same price. Who knows, maybe I could have gotten more, the thing was loaded with bitplane and Geometry Engine boards. But the weird System III derivative OS really put me off at the time. Manys the time I've wished I could go back in time and raid those shelves, or browse through the tables of electronics parts... --Steve. From mbg at TheWorld.com Thu Jul 24 00:07:00 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: Data Systems Design DSD-880 8" floppy and hard drive? References: <3.0.6.16.20030717205309.3daf3460@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <010a01c34e66$3097a0a0$0200a8c0@cosmo> <3F1B30BB.B6D94BF9@compsys.to> <3F1C4F1C.1050604@tiac.net> Message-ID: <200307240503.BAA9674868@shell.TheWorld.com> > I can settle this. I have the RT-11 and all the other disks from the >syustem. If anyone is interested they can take the disks and find out how >they were controlling the DSD devices. I can settle this... The RT development group had mostly 11/23-based systems using DSD880s of various types for a number of years, and we ran the stock RT-11 system on them just fine. As Jerome has pointed out, if we needed to use the additional RL of an 880/30, we had to rebuild the DL handler, and the code was there in the DY driver, though we typically didn't use it. In addition, I can say that the P/OS development group used DSD880s on 11/23-based systems to develop P/OS in the early days -- there was a qbus board which they used to do the P/OS graphics. It was programmed almost identically to what was eventually in the PRO. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | Member of Technical Staff | megan at savaje.com | | SavaJe Technologies, Inc. | (s/ at /@/) | | 100 Apollo Drive | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Chelmsford, MA 01460 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (978) 256 6521 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at TheWorld.com Thu Jul 24 00:18:00 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: Data Systems Design DSD-880 8" floppy and hard drive? Message-ID: <200307240514.BAA9712156@shell.TheWorld.com> > Actually, for device I/O, it doesn't matter whether >one is using 16, 18, or 22 bit addressing. The PDP-11 >I/O page is defined as from 28KW-32KW, which is entirely >within the range of 16bit addressing. Actually, the I/O page is defined as the highest 8kb (4kw) in memory. For a 16-bit machine, that is indeed 28kw-32kw. But it is not correct for an 18-bit or 22-bit machine. The best way to think of it is simply 8kb which is discontiguous with, and above, the available memory. Access to it is triggered by use of '1' in the high-order 3 places of a sixteen bit address. Of course if you have MMGT turned on, then these bits simply select the appropriate page, which may or may not be the I/O page. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | Member of Technical Staff | megan at savaje.com | | SavaJe Technologies, Inc. | (s/ at /@/) | | 100 Apollo Drive | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Chelmsford, MA 01460 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (978) 256 6521 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ Formerly with DEC/Compaq/HP From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Thu Jul 24 00:56:00 2003 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: 8-inch disk drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002301c351a7$a148d8c0$4d4d2c0a@atx> Tony wrote > I am wondering how on earth you can make a disk controller (note, not the > OS driver software, the physical controller) that works correctly with a > 9-sector-per-track format, but fails with the 8 sector-per-track version, > all other parameters being the same. Because that's the only difference > between the 320K and 360K MS-DOS formats. Only if you were to make an "intelligent"* controller that was designed to work as a sort of co-processor with less interaction with the main system. > > Similarly, I can't understand how you can make a controller that works > correcty with a DS disk but fails with the SS version. > as above. However, the FDCs on even the most recent PC motherboards are fully compatible (well almost, they may be slightly extended) with the original Intel chip ... as can be shown by running older software on those motherboards. * whether this is or is not more "intelligent" from the end-users' PoV depends entirely on whether said end-user needs the flexibility of a main-cpu-controlled preipheral. There seem to be few complaints about such high-level interfaces in (for example) Ethernat cards. Andy From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jul 24 01:09:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: Panasonic KXP4400 Laser Printer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Tothwolf wrote: > The volume of spam hasn't increased too much, but even 2-3/day tends to be > annoying. When you get 20-30 per hour then it tends to annoy you quite dramatically. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From fm.arnold at gmx.net Thu Jul 24 02:20:01 2003 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: Data Systems Design DSD-880 8" floppy and hard drive? Message-ID: >Message: 39 >Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:59:49 >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >From: Joe >Subject: Re: Data Systems Design DSD-880 8" floppy and hard drive? >Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > >At 10:19 PM 7/22/03 -0400, you wrote: >>>Bob Shannon wrote: >> >>> The DSD boxes I used do not emulate DEC drives, and made the 45 meg hard >>> drive >>> available as a single device. >> >>Jerome Fine replies: >> >>As far as I know, the DSD 880/8 and the DSD 880/30 all used >>only a Qbus controller. And they accepted the standard DEC >>device drivers in RT-11. >> Ok, I can enhance this info somewhat. I used both DSD 880 -8 and -30. (with great pleasure!) They interfaced via a 26 pin flatcable to a host Adapter, and I had both adapters for Q-bus and Unibus. Q-bus adapter was 22-bit. (in fact, we used a 25 pole data-switch in this flat-cable to switch this storage-system between 2 machines, as desired) I used this storage subsystem under RSX11-M with standard drivers, DSD provided a utility diskette with some handouts about RSX and RT and some driver-patches (eg for 8-meg extended RL01, or RX03) that I never used. Should have this disk still sopmewhere. Any interest? If it is an DSD880 for pdp11, then the emulation is RX / RL. If it is emulating MSCP its probably the DSD 9xx series of devices. DSD440 is a dual 8" floppy, in 5" enclosure (Half RX02-formfactor!) and providing RX01, -02, -03 emulation for all DEC OS's of those days. I remember there were also adapters for other architectures / busses, DSD did not limit the 440 or 880 to DEC-machines. >>There may have been other DSD boxes in addition the the DSD 880 >>and DSD 440, but I had not heard about them, let alone the details. > > FWIW I was looking through my Intel docs last night and found a manual >for a DSD Multibus hard drive controller. > I think there was also an adapter for some Motorola 68k based system... Frank Arnold From ptremewe at bigpond.net.au Thu Jul 24 02:24:00 2003 From: ptremewe at bigpond.net.au (peter tremewen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: Sunshine EPROM programmer for Apple II References: <464876A6-BD64-11D7-9D8B-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00d301c351b3$fc3603a0$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> I have a Sunshine EPROM Progammer to suit an IBM. I could probably dig out the manual, though i'm not too sure how usefull it will be for you. One useful bit of info that might help you dependant upon where you are located is the supplier of my unit: Macro Dynamics Suite 7, 322 Mountain hwy Wantirna Vic.3152 (03) 9720 2399 When I origainally brought the unit second hand, they where still able to supply the apropriate software for my unit, though it was considered fairly old. I'm not sure if they are still around, but if your Australia based you may not have too much trouble find them. If you have a quick surf to: You will find a neat little picture of my EPROM Progammer on a site I have quickly put up to show off my collection. Feel free to have a bit more of a look around if you want, but there is not much there yet, i'm in the middle of improving that, but it takes time........ I Hope this has been SOME help to you. The Sinister Dragon.... ----- Original Message ----- From: Ian Primus To: Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 9:20 AM Subject: Sunshine EPROM programmer for Apple II > While cleaning, I ran across an old EPROM programmer for an Apple II > computer. The only label on it is "Sunshine". Searching on the 'net has > turned up nothing on this card, but some information on the PC version > of the programmer. An EPROM programmer would be a very useful thing for > some of the projects I would like to work on, but I don't have any > software or information on this card. Does anyone have the software or > manual or any information on this? Thanks! > > Ian Primus > ian_primus@yahoo.com From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Thu Jul 24 02:49:00 2003 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: Sunshine EPROM programmer References: <3.0.6.16.20030723193459.3c773b92@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <057201c351b7$8c4bd1b0$6f00a8c0@athlon> Think thats the one that (originally) only worked properly on an XT with a herc screen- still have one here somewhere- there was a later software release that let you use the same hardware on 286 class machines provided they were not too fast. And it did max out at 27512s. I can probably find the original pc s/w if it's any use but you're chasing s/w for the Apple so probably it's not. On the topic of EPROM prgrammers, I'm still looking for s/w for the North Valley SPGM-100 Universal programmer I have here. DaveB Christchurch, NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 7:34 PM Subject: Re: Sunshine EPROM programmer for Apple II > I used to have the manual for the PC version and it looked extermely easy > to use. Everything was menu driven. IF you can find the software you should > be home free. IIRC the PC version programmed 2716s to 27512s. > > Joe > > At 07:20 PM 7/23/03 -0400, you wrote: > >While cleaning, I ran across an old EPROM programmer for an Apple II > >computer. The only label on it is "Sunshine". Searching on the 'net has > >turned up nothing on this card, but some information on the PC version > >of the programmer. An EPROM programmer would be a very useful thing for > >some of the projects I would like to work on, but I don't have any > >software or information on this card. Does anyone have the software or > >manual or any information on this? Thanks! > > > >Ian Primus > >ian_primus@yahoo.com From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jul 24 03:24:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: scanning booklets for archive Message-ID: <20030724082041.51406.qmail@web21107.mail.yahoo.com> > It worries me (a lot) that you'd throw anything out after scanning it, > considering that that paper version is easier to read and will last a > lot longer than any scanned version... He can always print it out once it's been scanned... ;-) J. ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jul 24 04:20:00 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: Token ring (UK) In-Reply-To: References: <20030722091921.V41446-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030724015050.03275a50@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 10:48 PM 7/22/03 -0400, vance@neurotica.com wrote: >What about Thomas-Conrad? I think I have a case of new in the box Arcnet cards etc by them. From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jul 24 05:39:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: VCF Gazette Volume 2, Issue 1 Message-ID: VCF Gazette Volume 2, Issue 1 A Newsletter for the Vintage Computer Festival July 24, 2003 The VCF Gazette begins its second volume with this extra large issue. We've tried to stay fairly on schedule, but this issue has been delayed a bit due to lots (and I mean LOTS) of stuff going on. So, without further ado... In this issue: Yet Again, a New (Permanent?) Home for the VCF Archives VCF 6.0 Commodore 64 Parallel Super Computer Project Commodore 64 Prototype Up for Auction at VCF 6.0 Coming in August: The VCF Marketplace! Planning for VCF East 2.0 VCF Producer to Speak at XGDX VintageTech Launches e-Cycle PDP-8 Replica Project New VCF Donation Program Latest Additions to the VCF Archives Yet Again, a New (Permanent?) Home for the VCF Archives ------------------------------------------------------- Ok, so some of you might have been eagerly anticipating the planned Open House that we were supposed to have last December, which got delayed due to the move by the Alameda County Computer Resource Center, the fine folks that have been hosting the Archive for the last two years. Well, forget everything we said in the last issue. The VCF is proud to announce its new--and hopefully permanent--home for the VCF Archives. We've acquired a lease on a 4,560 square foot office/warehouse in Livermore, California. The new facility has a grade level roll-up door, a loading dock (for the big stuff), and lots of space to store lots of old computers. The VCF staff has been busily packing and moving the archive from the old facility to the new. As of this writing, most of the collection (60 pallets worth plus an additional 20+ SUV loads) has been moved already, with a couple more truckloads to go to finish the move. The collection has certainly grown much larger than was realized in the time we've been at the ACCRC. Once the remainder of the collection is moved over, the real work begins. It will take several months to a year to fully sort and catalog the collection, something we've been trying to accomplish for years now. However, this time it's different. With a new venture (see below) and a new focus, we intend to achieve this goal and finally establish a world class computer history research facility for hobbyists, researchers, and the business community to utilize and enjoy. We'll keep you posted on our progress. VCF 6.0 ------- Hooray! The sixth annual Vintage Computer Festival has been scheduled for October 11th and 12th. The Computer History Museum will again be hosting the event, but this time at their spacious new home. Being that this is the 20th anniversary of the Commodore 64, it is being honored as the theme computer for this year's event. We expect to have some great Commodore 64 exhibits and, if enough people pull together, perhaps we can finally complete the long-awaited C64 parallel supercomputer. We've also got an amazing auction being planned: a rare Commodore 64 prototype (serial #19) will be auctioned during the VCF weekend. See below for more information on each of these news items. With a larger budget and a desire to push the envelope of the VCF, we expect this year's event to be the best and biggest yet. Help make this year's VCF a success by contributing a talk or exhibiting your favorite old computer. Call For Speakers One of the most enjoyable aspects of the VCF is the series of superb talks we assemble year after year. We've got some excellent sessions already lined up, but we're looking for more. Have you got an interesting computer history topic or workshop you'd like to present at the Vintage Computer Festival? Let us know! Send your abstracts to . Exhibit at the VCF Exhibitor's at the VCF enjoy a special status. Not only do they get all the attention, as well as ribbons and prizes for their award- winning exhibits, they also get to be part of the behind-the-scenes action at the VCF. Along with the speakers, the exhibitors are the VIPs of the VCF. Learn more about exhibiting here: http://www.vintage.org/2003/main/exhibit.php Buy, Sell and Trade at the VCF Marketplace As always, one of the most exciting aspects of the VCF is the Marketplace, where you can find a large and varied assortment of some of the most fantastical old computer thingies anywhere. Find that odd part you've been seeking out for your collection, then touch, smell, even taste it if you like, before haggling out a deal. There is simply no better place to buy and sell vintage computers than at the VCF Marketplace. For more information on selling at VCF 6.0, please visit: http://www.vintage.org/2003/main/vendor.php Stay tuned for more information about special events at the VCF. Get the latest updates at the VCF 6.0 website: http://www.vintage.org/2003/main/ Commodore 64 Parallel Super Computer Project -------------------------------------------- In 1999, the VCF envisioned connecting 64 Commodore 64 computers together to form one massively parallel Commodore 64 Super-Computer. The project has sputtered and stalled but the vision has never died. So this, being the 20th anniversary of the launch of the Commodore 64, makes it imperative that we finally deliver on this vow to do what no normally sane group of individuals would waste their time on. Power supplies will die, chips will burn out, and nerds will struggle over implementation details, but do this we must! To find out about how you can contribute to this project, please visit: http://www.vintage.org/projects.php Commodore 64 Prototype Up for Auction at VCF 6.0 ------------------------------------------------ What's cooler than 64 Commodore 64's tied together to form a massively parallel supercomputer? How about an original Commodore 64 prototype? At VCF 6.0, the VCF will auction off a pre-production Commodore 64, built in early 1982 just after the Winter CES, and harboring serial number 19. This is perhaps the rarest of all Commodore 64 computers, as no other prototype Commodore 64 units are known to exist. More information about this computer will be made available in the coming weeks, including photos and screen-shots. Auction registration will begin a couple weeks before VCF 6.0. Coming in August: The VCF Marketplace! -------------------------------------- We've been hinting at it for months, nay years, but it's finally come to fruition. The VCF Marketplace--THE place to buy, sell and trade vintage computers on the internet--will be open for business in August. The VCF Marketplace provides many innovative features, including a number of different selling methods. You can offer up an item for sale in several formats, hold an auction in one of several different formats, even list an item for trade, for give-away, or even for lending! You choose the format that best fits your preferences or needs on a per listing basis. The VCF Marketplace will be a veritable vintage computer bazaar. We've deployed one of the most powerful search engines on the net. You'll be able to search on a specific make and model of computer hardware, a specific vendor and title of software, a specific title and author of a book, and so forth. No more will you have to wade through dozens or even hundreds of irrelevant hits to find what you're looking for. Also available are invaluable notification features. You can program the service to alert you the very moment an item you've been desperately seeking gets posted. Take advantage of the personal inventory functions, allowing you to manage your computer collection online and share photos and information with other collectors (a free service!) Future phases will include store fronts for volume sellers, realtime online pricing guides (instantly generated from past sales data) and registry features (track the lineage of your most prized old computers). To celebrate our launch, the service will initially be free to all users for the first six weeks. After that, the site is still free to use for most sellers, with very reasonable fees for volume sellers. A separate announcement will be sent out when the Marketplace is officially launched. Stay tuned for further details! Planning for VCF East 2.0 ------------------------- Knock! Knock! VCF! VCF East 2.0! That's who, silly! That's right, the much anticipated follow-up to the first east coast VCF in 2001 is being planned for April of 2004. You poor denizens of the right coast vintage computer collecting scene have been starved long enough. The economy still sucks, and you're probably still out of a job, but we're going to forge ahead and finally fulfill our promise to return. Much more details are of course to come, and we've still got to nail down a date and place, but we've got plenty of time, and we've got to get VCF 6.0 out of the way first. But don't fret, this time we mean it: VCF East 2.0 is coming! Your feedback is warranted at this point. The Boston area is still being considered as the location, but enough noise from enough people in the same place can certainly put other locales in the running. Let use know where YOU'D like VCF East to be. Send your comments and suggestions to . VCF Producer to Speak at XGDX ----------------------------- VCF Producer Sellam Ismail will be giving a talk on the history of video games at the next Xtreme Game Developers Xpo. The talk will cover the first video game system, Tennis for Two, developed at the Brookhaven National Laboratory in 1958, plus Spacewar! (1962), the Magnavox Odyssey (the first home video game system circa 1972) and Nolan Bushnell's Computer Space (1970) and Pong (1972), the games that launched the video arcade industry. The talk will include video clips, screen shots, and even actual demonstrations with original hardware of some of the games and systems discussed. The Xtreme Game Developers Xpo is the premier gathering for developers, programmers, designers and anyone with a passion for video games. This year's event is being held September 6-7 at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, California. XGDX is open to the public and is targeted to all levels of Game Developer, from the new game programmer to the seasoned professional. There will be approximately 20-25 technical lecture sessions and roundtable discussions scheduled each day. If you've attended in the past then you know that this conference is all about people sharing a common passion: the creation ofi video games. How will this year be different? More sessions, more peers, more opportunities to benefit from the knowledge and experience of others in a select community. What hasn't changed? The belief that providing a forum where people in every aspect of the gaming community can gather, interact, share, and learn, will produce extraordinary results. To celebrate the inauguration of XGDX (formerly the XGDC), all attendees who pre-register online prior to August 1 will receive a $250 library of Game Development books free from Premier Press (you must attend the event to receive your lirbary in person). For more information, or to register online, please visit the XGDX website: http://www.xgdx.com/ VintageTech Launches e-Cycle ---------------------------- VintageTech, the VCF's historical computing consulting firm, has just launched a new service to serve its local community. Electronic waste has become a major issue in California and throughout the nation as well. Discarded computers and consumer electronics--basically anything containing a printed circuit board--can no longer be simply tossed in the trash due to the toxic elements teeming inside of them. To serve the need for electronic waste recycling, VintageTech has launched a new electronic waste recycling service called e-Cycle. e-Cycle serves the electronic waste recycling needs of the Tri-Valley area of California's Silicon Valley. More information can be found on the e-Cycle website: http://www.ecycle.info/ To find out more about electronic waste recycling in your area, your best bet is to do a web search. Not all localities are served by recycling facilities, and there may not even be requirements in your area to recycle discarded electronics. But you should start getting into the habit of finding sensible alternatives to the landfill for your obsolete electronics because there will soon come a day when it will be required. Suggestions for alternatives to the landfill: o Donate to local schools, churches, charities, or non-profits o Donate older hardware to local community college engineering departments for spare parts o Give or sell your old computers to local used computer resellers o Sell your old hardware on the Vintage Computer Marketplace ;) o Donate your vintage computers to a local collector, or to the VCF :) PDP-8 Replica Project --------------------- The VCF was hired to create a replica PDP-8 for an exhibit at the Federal Reserve Bank in Boston, Massachusetts. The replica is part of an exhibit that shows how computer technology changed the economy. The PDP-8, which defined the "mini-computer" class, is significant because it made it possible for small- and medium-sized businesses to own a computer. The PDP-8 replica will go on display at the Bank in the next several weeks. In the meantime, a photo gallery documenting the construction of the replica can be found here: http://www.vintage.org/gallery.php?grouptag=PDP-8 New VCF Donation Program ------------------------ In order to help defray the production costs of Vintage Computer Festival events, the VCF has begun a new donation program. Donations at various levels will be rewarded with VCF pins, t-shirts, and VIP passes to upcoming VCF events. Give enough and you can receive a lifetime VIP Pass to all future VCF events! Times are tough for the typical geek today, but if you can help, please visit the VCF donation page to learn more about this program: http://www.vintage.org/donate.php We greatly appreciate your support, in any form! Latest Additions to the VCF Archives ------------------------------------ We've added some very cool artifacts to the VCF Archives in recent months, including: o Sphere 6800 (the "first" all-in-one microcomputer circa 1975) o Basis 108 (German Apple ][ clone circa 1982) o MAC-8 microprocessor trainer (circa 1978) With any luck (and possibly with your help) we'll have the VCF Archives sorted, organized and catalogued within a year. Find out how you can contribute to this worthwhile project by sending an inquiry to . And remember: almost everything in the VCF Archives is available for loan to hobbyists and researchers. Let us know if you'd like to borrow something for a project or some academic research and we'll be happy to help you out. That wraps it up for this issue of the VCF Gazette! Until next time... Best regards, Sellam Ismail Producer Vintage Computer Festival http://www.vintage.org/ The Vintage Computer Festival is a celebration of computers and their history. The VCF Gazette goes out to anyone who subscribed to the VCF mailing list, and is intended to keep those interested in the VCF informed of the latest VCF events and happenings. The VCF Gazette is guaranteed to be published in a somewhat irregular manner, though we will try to maintain a quarterly schedule. If you would like to be removed from the VCF mailing list, and therefore not receive any more issues of the VCF Gazette, visit the following web page: http://www.vintage.org/remove.php I'M a PEACH ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ptremewe at bigpond.net.au Thu Jul 24 05:49:00 2003 From: ptremewe at bigpond.net.au (peter tremewen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: Calling ApleII experts...... References: Message-ID: <003f01c351d0$b09e07e0$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> Hi, > Apple ]['s didn't have "BIOS". They had ROM ;) I knew I had that wrong, MMMmmmm ROM I had allmost forgoten that term....... > > across a BIOS chip for this M/Board?? If some one can provide me with the > > contents of the Eprom I can burn it from a file and test it if necasary. > > You most likely don't need to go through all that trouble. Just take the > ROMs from any other Apple ][ motherboard and pop them into this one. For > minimal system operation you can just transfer ROM F8. For BASIC, you > also want ROM-D0, ROM-D8, ROM-E0, ROM-E8 and ROM-F0. Thanks for the tip, The board only has one ROM socket, so i'll try F8, I'm not too sure if the board works, i'll have to dig out the apropriate monitor and give it a go....... The Sinister Dragon...... From vance at neurotica.com Thu Jul 24 05:49:17 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: Token ring (UK) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030724015050.03275a50@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jul 2003, Mike Ford wrote: > At 10:48 PM 7/22/03 -0400, vance@neurotica.com wrote: > >What about Thomas-Conrad? > I think I have a case of new in the box Arcnet cards etc by them. Yeah, but I'm pretty sure they still make TP stuff. Unless they've gone byebye or something. Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Thu Jul 24 05:55:01 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: Calling ApleII experts...... In-Reply-To: <003f01c351d0$b09e07e0$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jul 2003, peter tremewen wrote: > > > across a BIOS chip for this M/Board?? If some one can provide me > > > with the contents of the Eprom I can burn it from a file and test it > > > if necasary. > > > > You most likely don't need to go through all that trouble. Just take > > the ROMs from any other Apple ][ motherboard and pop them into this > > one. For minimal system operation you can just transfer ROM F8. For > > BASIC, you also want ROM-D0, ROM-D8, ROM-E0, ROM-E8 and ROM-F0. > > Thanks for the tip, The board only has one ROM socket, so i'll > try F8, I'm not too sure if the board works, i'll have to dig out the > apropriate monitor and give it a go....... You could always boot an AppleSoft BASIC disk, no? Peace... Sridhar From shirsch at adelphia.net Thu Jul 24 06:05:00 2003 From: shirsch at adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: FS: RARE black Bell & Howell Apple ][ Plus with drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Tothwolf wrote: > I also used to use a clone type Apple II at one time, but I don't remember > who made it. Its case vaguely reminded me of an Apple III. It had two > built-in 5.25" floppy drives in the upper section of the case below where > the monitor sat. Sounds like a Basis 108 From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jul 24 06:13:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: Kaypro PC ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030724071116.3beffcbc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I saw a Kaypro PC is a scrap place about two years ago. I don't remmeber much about it but I think I posted a message here about it. You should be able to find it in the archives. IIRC it used an 8086 and had card slots just like a PC. Joe At 11:44 PM 7/22/03 -0700, you wrote: >Kaypro made a computer that they released after their portables but before >their IBM clone. It was in a flat metal case that was shorter and smaller >than their AT case. I can't remember what it was called. I've only seen one >reference to it but the website is gone. Does anyone remember the system >that I'm thinking of? I think (?) that it was an 8086 system but it might >have been a single board Z80. From melamy at earthlink.net Thu Jul 24 07:05:00 2003 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: 8-inch disk drives Message-ID: <240703205.13281@webbox.com> actually, a point of history is that the 320K disks were still formatted for nine sectors. IBM, for some reason known only to them, filled the ninth sector with all "IBM" if I remember correctly. It has been 21 years since I did this, but I remembered wondering why in the heck they didn't bother to use the ninth sector they formatted. Maybe they were holding it close to them so they could release an "enhancement" that boosted the capacity to 360K. best regards, Steve Thatcher > >I am wonderign how on earth you can make a disk controller (note, not the >OS driver software, the physocal controller) that works correctly with a >9-sector-per-track format, but fails with the 8 sector-per-track version, >all other parameters being the same. Because that's the only difference >between the 320K and 360K MS-DOS formats. From Mzthompson at aol.com Thu Jul 24 08:57:00 2003 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: Breaking News Message-ID: <1a9.17fbe990.2c513ef0@aol.com> Wednesday, July 23, 2003, 9:20 PM EST Re: Breaking News Hi Dwayne, > If this happened in Mosul then OH-58's would be ours. Had not heard about > their involvment. OK, I'll bite. How would you not know about their involvement? > Oh...and I am only 1/2 south of Mosul in a Quiet, Quaint, little Quandry > of a place. Did you mean "1/2 hour south". You are still at the abandoned airfield, right? Could you expand a little on "Quiet, Quaint, little Quandry"? > And I went to Mosul on Monday and Today (Wed) In one sense, I would have preferred not knowing that. Yeah, I know there are water runs, mail runs, etc. There have been quite a few news articles in the last 24-36 hours. I saved a lot of them until they got just too repetitive. I was going to say that I stand corrected with regards to the number of soldiers killed since May 1. I read one article iearlier today that reported numbers in the high 80's, low 90's (can't find the article at the moment) and then another article states 41 since May 1. I suspect I/we may be confusing combat versus combat/accident/illness. I am gonna close this out now and start another one. I have been feeling overwhelmed with all this recent news. My reaction is to break it down and deal with it in chunks. More soon, Dad From pcw at mesanet.com Thu Jul 24 09:37:00 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: Panasonic KXP4400 Laser Printer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Tothwolf wrote: > > > The volume of spam hasn't increased too much, but even 2-3/day tends to be > > annoying. > > When you get 20-30 per hour then it tends to annoy you quite dramatically. > One word: Spamassassin > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > Peter Wallace From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jul 24 12:06:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: Calling ApleII experts...... In-Reply-To: <003f01c351d0$b09e07e0$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jul 2003, peter tremewen wrote: > Thanks for the tip, The board only has one ROM socket, so i'll try > F8, I'm not too sure if the board works, i'll have to dig out the apropriate > monitor and give it a go....... Well, that is a bit different, isn't it? Is it possible they designed in a higher density ROM and had everything on one chip? In that case, putting in the F8 ROM most likely won't work. Can you supply a photo of the mainboard? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jul 24 12:07:10 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: Calling ApleII experts...... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > Thanks for the tip, The board only has one ROM socket, so i'll > > try F8, I'm not too sure if the board works, i'll have to dig out the > > apropriate monitor and give it a go....... > > You could always boot an AppleSoft BASIC disk, no? The BASIC is in ROM, not to mention the system boot code :( -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Jul 24 12:44:01 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: scanning booklets for archive In-Reply-To: <20030724082041.51406.qmail@web21107.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001b01c3520a$c5293ab0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > > It worries me (a lot) that you'd throw anything out after > scanning it, > > considering that that paper version is easier to read and > will last a > > lot longer than any scanned version... > > He can always print it out once it's been scanned... ;-) He could sell or give away the paper version once it's been scanned (although slicing it to bits may make this harder and not slicing it to bits means the scanning takes longer). I guess selling it might be sufficient motive to take longer over the scanning and not slice a manual. Certainly for the stapled manuals, I always removed staples, scanned and restored the manual. This also worked for centre stapled booklets, since I had acess to a sheet fed scanner that could do 11x17. The postprocessing required to produce a scan in the original form was minimal. I did pull some things apart, but only if they had significantly deteriorated already. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From cb at mythtech.net Thu Jul 24 13:16:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: scanning booklets for archive Message-ID: >He could sell or give away the paper version once it's been >scanned (although slicing it to bits may make this harder and >not slicing it to bits means the scanning takes longer). I guess >selling it might be sufficient motive to take longer over the >scanning and not slice a manual. So far none of the stuff I have scanned I think has any selling value (some of it was already offered on this list and no one took it, I actually pulled it from the garbage to scan them). Anything that I think has value I will certainly either take the effort to scan without damaging it, or find out if there is value BEFORE I destroy it. -chris From ken at seefried.com Thu Jul 24 13:19:00 2003 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: Token ring (UK) In-Reply-To: <20030724170001.1816.8827.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20030724170001.1816.8827.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030724181506.25224.qmail@mail.seefried.com> >And microchannel; don't forget microchannel. The original "plug and play" >(except _it_ worked...) > >On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Geoff Reed wrote: > >> At 10:24 PM 7/22/03 -0400, you wrote: >> >> >Nosiree. Any PC, any RS/6000, really, any machine with PCI can do token >> >ring. >> >> Token ring didn't require PCI bus, I have some ISA Token ring cards around >> here somewhere > I've seen (at least) Multibus-I, Sun SBus & VMEBus token ring as well. From Mzthompson at aol.com Thu Jul 24 14:50:01 2003 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: [Re: Breaking News] (Oops) Message-ID: <157.21fadae1.2c5191b5@aol.com> Sellam was nice enough to let me know that the email to my son had ended up on the mailing list by mistake. Thank you Sellam. Having not read much of the list traffic since this war started, I probably would have not known for a long time until I go back and do some catching up. I checked and sure enough, I had sent it to the list instead. I am unsure how it happened. The list address and his address are miles apart in the address book. I'll try to blame it on a misbehaving mouse or something. For those that may want to know. My son is near Mosul. His unit is with the 101st. The unit operates a number of OH-58 Kiowa gunships. The news footage of Tuesday's fire fight showed a couple of Kiowa's overhead. I had asked him if they were from his unit and it appears they were. I am thankful that all he does is maintain the choppers and therefore his butt stays back at the unit's base most of the time. I'll ask the list to forgive this intrusion with stuff unrelated to classic computers. Mike Thompson From mtapley at swri.edu Thu Jul 24 15:26:01 2003 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: [Re: Breaking News] (Oops) In-Reply-To: <157.21fadae1.2c5191b5@aol.com> References: <157.21fadae1.2c5191b5@aol.com> Message-ID: >I'll ask the list to forgive this intrusion with stuff unrelated >to classic computers. A) No need to ask, it was obviously unintentional, and "if I had a nickel for every time *I*'d fouled up with an email program..." B) Salutations and heartfelt thanks to your son for his service. I am a US citizen; his actions are benefiting me at risk to his life, and I *really* appreciate it. Same goes for anyone else reading this who does or has served in the armed forces and to families thereof. -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From donm at cts.com Thu Jul 24 16:01:01 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: Kaypro PC ? In-Reply-To: <004301c3519a$63b0f220$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Erik S. Klein wrote: > Are you thinking of the Kaypro Robbie? > > http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=278 > > It doesn't match your description, but it's the only non-suitcase > machine I can remember that wasn't PC compatible. > > Erik Klein > www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum > The Vintage Computer Forum Well, the Robie was certainly conspicuous with its all-black paint and the two Drivetec floppies in an attached box on top. Of course, the only suitcase machine that Kaypro built that was PC compatible (sort of) was the Kaypro 16 that was housed in a somewhat modified II/2/4/10 case. - don > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Ernest > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 11:45 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Kaypro PC ? > > Kaypro made a computer that they released after their portables but > before > their IBM clone. It was in a flat metal case that was shorter and > smaller > than their AT case. I can't remember what it was called. I've only seen > one > reference to it but the website is gone. Does anyone remember the system > that I'm thinking of? I think (?) that it was an 8086 system but it > might > have been a single board Z80. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 24 16:24:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: 8-inch disk drives In-Reply-To: <002301c351a7$a148d8c0$4d4d2c0a@atx> from "Andy Holt" at Jul 24, 3 06:51:30 am Message-ID: > Tony wrote > > I am wondering how on earth you can make a disk controller (note, not the > > OS driver software, the physical controller) that works correctly with a > > 9-sector-per-track format, but fails with the 8 sector-per-track version, > > all other parameters being the same. Because that's the only difference > > between the 320K and 360K MS-DOS formats. > > Only if you were to make an "intelligent"* controller that was designed to > work as a sort of co-processor with less interaction with the main system. OK... I'll bet that no normal PC motherboard uses such a controller, though... I have found PC disk controllers that can't handle 360K disks. When used in 1.2M (360rpm drives), such disks have an effective 300kbps data rate, which the (broken-as-designed) controller didn't handle. I complained about this, only to be told that 'nobody uses 360K disks any more'. Hmmm... It claimed to be 'IBM compatible', and the IBM controller certainly handles 360K disks... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 24 16:24:40 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: scanning booklets for archive In-Reply-To: from "chris" at Jul 23, 3 11:52:10 pm Message-ID: > >It worries me (a lot) that you'd throw anything out after scanning it, > >considering that that paper version is easier to read and will last a > >lot longer than any scanned version... > > Space... I'm out of space. I can fits lots and lots of stacks of paper We're all out of space :-). I ran out of space 10 years ago, and again about every month since then. Some creative re-packing of the computer rooms has helped until now (which reminds me, I must get round to finding a permanent place for the P854. It's getting a pain having to move it off the chair every time I want to sit down). > onto a single CD if I scan them all. I really am suprised you couldn't find somebody who wanted these originals... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 24 16:24:55 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: scanning booklets for archive In-Reply-To: <20030724082041.51406.qmail@web21107.mail.yahoo.com> from "=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=" at Jul 24, 3 09:20:41 am Message-ID: > He can always print it out once it's been scanned... ;-) Yeah, but (a) he won't, and (b) many computer printing processes have a shorter life (of the printed document) than the processes used for books. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 24 16:25:10 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: scanning booklets for archive In-Reply-To: from "chris" at Jul 24, 3 02:12:10 pm Message-ID: > So far none of the stuff I have scanned I think has any selling value Err, if it's worth scanning, then it must have value to someone, and therefore it's worth preserving the original. -tony From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Jul 24 16:36:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: scanning booklets for archive References: Message-ID: <006001c3522a$e17a5260$347ca418@neo.rr.com> If scanned in correctly the manuals would be more usefull up on a website then rotting in 1 persons basement. Most manuals dont take up that much space, but if you have 1000 of them then you have to have a good cataloging method or you will never find the one your looking for. Most people dont want the library of congress in their basement. So are these pdf's on a website or ftp site I can get at them? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 5:08 PM Subject: Re: scanning booklets for archive > > He can always print it out once it's been scanned... ;-) > > Yeah, but (a) he won't, and (b) many computer printing processes have a > shorter life (of the printed document) than the processes used for books. > > -tony From vance at neurotica.com Thu Jul 24 16:50:01 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: scanning booklets for archive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jul 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > He can always print it out once it's been scanned... ;-) > > Yeah, but (a) he won't, and (b) many computer printing processes have a > shorter life (of the printed document) than the processes used for > books. If I were to pick up a digital offset press, would that do the job? Peace... Sridhar From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jul 24 17:07:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: More Acorn finds + Numonics graphics tablet Message-ID: <20030724220346.22532.qmail@web21103.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, I managed to pick over some more Acorn hardware that was awaiting disposal at a school yesterday and today. I only had about an hour to look over everything, and there were well over 100 machines piled into a room and cupboard, so as you can imagine it was a little frantic to sort out the good stuff. (case screws flying everywhere as I was pulling useful ROMs from stacks of dead machines :-) Came away with the following: Two Master Compacts, plus a third system unit for spares use. Two ICL-built BBC B's. (serial #'s 36xx and 38xx I think) Two standard Master 128's BBC B with a Watford DDB3 module plugged into socket for IC78 BBC B with a 3.5" floppy drive + bootable print server disk BBC B with Aries B20 / B12 boards installed Master 128 with a Cox 630B genlock card Two Master Turbo machines Music 5000 synthesizer unit Acorn A3010 Acorn A310 A310 "Computer Concepts Scanner Interface" board A310 Nexus interface board A310 video digitiser board (Watford) Around 30 spare Econet modules for Master / A3xx machines Econet kit (clock box etc) still boxed Aries B20 / B12 board Aries B32 / B12 board 6502 coprocessor board Four 486 DX4/100 processor boards on a small backplane (RiscPC?) Cub monitor (my only previous example caught fire!) Acorn RGB monitor w/SCART connection Numerous floppy drives, video leads, Econet connection boxes, spare keyboards, spare PSUs, ROMs etc. Various manuals - not dug into these yet. Numonics 2206 graphics tablet still in its box Questions: Three of the BBC B machines have an IC/module plugged into one of the ROM sockets with a label saying "RAM". The modules are twice the height of a normal IC and have a red and black wire coming out of them. The red wire is soldered to the system board; the black wire has an IC leg clip at the end of it. Any ideas what these are? What does that Watford DDB3 module do? Details on the A310 cards would be nice - specs of the video digitiser, what scanner plugs into the scanner card (it has an 8 pin min-DIN, a 20 pin connector, and what appears to be power output), and what the hell a Nexus card is / does... Information on the genlock card in the Master would be useful. ROMs / software / whatever for the Music 5000 unit could come in handy! I only have the unit itself. *Any* info on the Numonics tablet would be great. It appears to be complete (minus manuals - grr!) and supposedly works, but I don't even know what it plugs into and I don't have any driver software for it. (I'm not even sure how old it is :) Pretty much everything seems to be healthy; one of the ICL B's needs the chips reseating I think and the other one has a track / joint fault in the PSU but otherwise is OK. The Master with the genlock is dead so I'm hoping the genlock card has survived! Fills in a few gaps in the collection anyway. Quick pics of the room as found are at: www.moosenet.demon.co.uk/temp/bbc cheers Jules ===== Backward conditioning: putting saliva in a dog's mouth in an attempt to make a bell ring. ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From grobinson at transpose.com Thu Jul 24 18:07:00 2003 From: grobinson at transpose.com (Gary Robinson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: Need to read 8-inch CP/M disks Message-ID: I have a need to read some 8-inch CP/M disks. They're pretty old and I'm nervous about sending them anywhere because I'm afraid that post-9/11 package scanning could ruin them. If anybody has any hardware they'd be interested in loaning to me (or selling) for this purpose that would be great. Or if anyone has a machine and lives in the U.S. Northeast, I wonder if I could pay for some of your time to help me get this done. Many thanks in advance for any help! --Gary -- Putting http://wecanstopspam.org in your email helps it pass through overzealous spam filters. Gary Robinson CEO Transpose, LLC grobinson@transpose.com 207-942-3463 http://www.transpose.com http://radio.weblogs.com/0101454 From bpope at wordstock.com Thu Jul 24 18:21:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: scanning booklets for archive In-Reply-To: from "vance@neurotica.com" at Jul 24, 03 05:47:05 pm Message-ID: <200307242316.TAA21960@wordstock.com> And thusly vance@neurotica.com spake: > > If I were to pick up a digital offset press, would that do the job? > Is it four-colour? :-D Cheers, Bryan Pope From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 24 18:27:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: More Acorn finds + Numonics graphics tablet In-Reply-To: <20030724220346.22532.qmail@web21103.mail.yahoo.com> from "=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=" at Jul 24, 3 11:03:46 pm Message-ID: > Master 128 with a Cox 630B genlock card Is that 'Michael Cox Electronics'? I've come across said company for video-related stuff (PAL encoders/decoders) before. > Acorn RGB monitor w/SCART connection Almost certainly a badged Philips unit. It's analogue RGB only (unless you get the service manual for the Philips version and solder in the components for the PAL decoder, and then align the darn thin). The pinout is standard SCART, with the sync going in on the composite video input pin (as you'd expect if you've worked with SCART before). > Three of the BBC B machines have an IC/module plugged into one of the ROM > sockets with a label saying "RAM". The modules are twice the height of a normal > IC and have a red and black wire coming out of them. The red wire is soldered > to the system board; the black wire has an IC leg clip at the end of it. Any > ideas what these are? Sideways RAM. These are RAM modules (normally 16K -- you may find the module contains a pair of piggybacked 6264 chips) that pretend to be sideways ROMs to the system most of the time. The 'official' reason for wanting one was to be able to develop sideways ROM code easily. The real reasonfor having one was that you could copy ROM images to disk from other people's machines, then load them into the RAM module and pretend to have that ROM. This is commonly called theft, of course! > > What does that Watford DDB3 module do? Well, it plugs into the 8271 (disk cotnroller chip) socket. So it's probably a 1770 board. Such boards were designed when the 8271 became almost impossible to obtain, and also allowed the use of double-density (MFM) recording. You need thr correct DFS ROM for them, and some of the lesser ones fail on copy protection schemes that try to access the 8271 driectly. Better DFSes (including Acorn's IIRC) attempt to translate accesses to the 8271 (at least if you use the appropriate OSBYTE call, which you should do to make the program second-processor compliant) into the equivalent operation on the 1770. -tony From ls at essential.com.au Thu Jul 24 18:27:25 2003 From: ls at essential.com.au (Lance Semmens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: Data conversion (Commodore 64, 8250 Disk Drive, SuperBase) Message-ID: I have 4 disks (5 1/4 floppies) full of data that I'm looking to import into an Access Database. The data was written on a Commodore 64 with an 8250 double disk drive. The custom software that was being used sat on top of a SuperBase database. If anyone has the means to convert this data or can offer some tips as to how I could go about doing this it would be much appreciated. Thanks, Lance. From donm at cts.com Thu Jul 24 18:31:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: Need to read 8-inch CP/M disks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jul 2003, Gary Robinson wrote: > I have a need to read some 8-inch CP/M disks. They're pretty old and I'm > nervous about sending them anywhere because I'm afraid that post-9/11 > package scanning could ruin them. Gary, I would not be concerned about that kind of damage in shipping. Much more likely is to get the disks folded if they are not packed sufficiently well. I mail disks fairly frequently to and from both domestic and foreign addresses without problem. - don > If anybody has any hardware they'd be interested in loaning to me (or > selling) for this purpose that would be great. > > Or if anyone has a machine and lives in the U.S. Northeast, I wonder if I > could pay for some of your time to help me get this done. > > Many thanks in advance for any help! > > --Gary > > -- > Putting http://wecanstopspam.org in your email helps it pass through > overzealous spam filters. > > Gary Robinson > CEO > Transpose, LLC > grobinson@transpose.com > 207-942-3463 > http://www.transpose.com > http://radio.weblogs.com/0101454 From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Jul 24 18:40:01 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: Data conversion (Commodore 64, 8250 Disk Drive, SuperBase) References: Message-ID: <001601c3523c$2972a340$347ca418@neo.rr.com> If a commodore 1571 drive can read your disk you can connect the 1571 direct to a pc via parrallel port and use software to dump the files directly to the pc. Converting the database to access might be a problem if the format isnt standard. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2743816122&category=1247 I have used this type of cable to copy files from a pc to a 1541 drive and back , supports 1571 (double sided 5.25) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lance Semmens" To: "Cctalk (E-mail)" Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 7:19 PM Subject: Data conversion (Commodore 64, 8250 Disk Drive, SuperBase) > I have 4 disks (5 1/4 floppies) full of data that I'm looking to import into > an Access Database. > The data was written on a Commodore 64 with an 8250 double disk drive. The > custom software > that was being used sat on top of a SuperBase database. > > If anyone has the means to convert this data or can offer some tips as to > how I could go about > doing this it would be much appreciated. > > Thanks, > Lance. From vance at neurotica.com Thu Jul 24 18:49:01 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: scanning booklets for archive In-Reply-To: <200307242316.TAA21960@wordstock.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jul 2003, Bryan Pope wrote: > > If I were to pick up a digital offset press, would that do the job? > > > > Is it four-colour? :-D It might even be seven-color. I haven't really looked, but I think I'm going to. Peace... Sridhar From cb at mythtech.net Thu Jul 24 18:49:26 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: scanning booklets for archive Message-ID: >So are these pdf's on a website or ftp site I can get at them? At the moment, no, none of mine are. But I've just started. Depending on how large of a collection I wind up with (and copyrights to the collection), I may either put them all on a site for download, or put some, or put a list of them with a way to request a copy. -chris From cb at mythtech.net Thu Jul 24 19:02:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: scanning booklets for archive Message-ID: >Err, if it's worth scanning, then it must have value to someone, and >therefore it's worth preserving the original. Believe me, if I think there is anything that others might want, I'll offer them before throwing them out. And if I think it is something that has value, I'll be sure to check for takers before doing anything that will remove that value (such as cutting bindings to make sheet feeding easier). At the moment, all I have scanned is "test" items. Things that either were already offered and then thrown out when no one wanted them (such as the amplifier manuals I offered months ago that I was able to recover from my growing pile of scrap paper), or items that have zero value outside of my direct work (old in-house instruction manuals for equipment or processes). -chris From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jul 24 19:38:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Peter Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: More Acorn finds + Numonics graphics tablet In-Reply-To: Jules Richardson "More Acorn finds + Numonics graphics tablet" (Jul 24, 23:03) References: <20030724220346.22532.qmail@web21103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10307250132.ZM17521@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 24, 23:03, Jules Richardson wrote: > Details on the A310 cards would be nice - specs of the video digitiser, Can't remember the specs offhand. IIRC it's possible to get colour out of it (all the early Acorn demos were made with one) but I think the native mode of operation is monochrome. I have one, and I have the software on an 800K ADFS E disk, though I haven't used it in at least a decade. I also have some of the colour demos done with it. The only thing I don't have, and which I'd dearly like to find, is the spoof of the BBC rotating globe that was done using images from the digitiser -- Aunty complained and all the copies I had access to got withdrawn. It uses SWIs contained in the EPROM on the card to drive the hardware; the version I have is 2.51, which I remember getting from Mike Harrison (who designed it) specially -- it's not the normal release version. > what > scanner plugs into the scanner card (it has an 8 pin min-DIN, a 20 pin > connector, and what appears to be power output), Sounds like the Beebug scanner, or possibly the Computer Concepts one (which may have used the same scanner head). Mine used a Mitsubishi scan head which was the width of A4 and rolled over a flat sheet, but there was also a sheet feeder available which used the 8-pin miniDIN. The 20-way subminiature D-connector is the connection to the scan head. It could also be used with those little scanner hand units (the ones that look like a fat barcode scanner). IIRC, the power jack is an input, for scanners that take more power than the backplane is supposed to provide. > and what the hell a Nexus card > is / does... If it's what I think it is, it was something that either SJ Research or Lingenuity built to hook a few Archimedes machines onto a SCSI bus to share a hard drive. I could be thinking of something else, though. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ls at essential.com.au Thu Jul 24 21:43:00 2003 From: ls at essential.com.au (Lance Semmens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:01 2005 Subject: Data conversion (Commodore 64, 8250 Disk Drive, SuperBase) Message-ID: Teoz, The specs differ a fair bit from the 8250 to the 1571. The 8250 can store 1024k per disk (http://www.zimmers.net/cbmpics/deieee2.html) whereas the 1571 can store 360k per disk (http://www.zimmers.net/cbmpics/d1571s.html) so I don't think this is an option. As far as importing into access goes, I am willing to do a bit of mucking around. Getting the data in plain text would be great. Lance. -----Original Message----- From: TeoZ [mailto:teoz@neo.rr.com] Sent: Friday, 25 July 2003 9:05 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Data conversion (Commodore 64, 8250 Disk Drive, SuperBase) If a commodore 1571 drive can read your disk you can connect the 1571 direct to a pc via parrallel port and use software to dump the files directly to the pc. Converting the database to access might be a problem if the format isnt standard. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2743816122&category=1247 I have used this type of cable to copy files from a pc to a 1541 drive and back , supports 1571 (double sided 5.25) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lance Semmens" To: "Cctalk (E-mail)" Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 7:19 PM Subject: Data conversion (Commodore 64, 8250 Disk Drive, SuperBase) > I have 4 disks (5 1/4 floppies) full of data that I'm looking to import into > an Access Database. > The data was written on a Commodore 64 with an 8250 double disk drive. The > custom software > that was being used sat on top of a SuperBase database. > > If anyone has the means to convert this data or can offer some tips as to > how I could go about > doing this it would be much appreciated. > > Thanks, > Lance. From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Jul 24 22:06:01 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: Data conversion (Commodore 64, 8250 Disk Drive, SuperBase) References: Message-ID: <009301c35258$f9d82e80$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Do you have a 8250 drive and a c64 handy or can you borrow one? If so you can use star commander to connect your c64 to a dos era pc and set it up as drive unit 9. You then setup the 8250 as drive unit 8. Copy the data from 8 to 9. If you know some programming you can communicate with the 8250 (its basically a computer sending data over a IEEE488 interface) and have it send the data through the interface cable to you PC. I am assuming that the 8250 uses the same interface cable to the c64 as the normal 1541/1571/1581 drives do. It all depends on how much you need this data, and how much you want to spend on recovering it. Getting a copy of Superbase on the c64 and doing a data dump of the files to aschi would be the best thing. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lance Semmens" To: Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:34 PM Subject: RE: Data conversion (Commodore 64, 8250 Disk Drive, SuperBase) > Teoz, > > The specs differ a fair bit from the 8250 to the 1571. The 8250 can store > 1024k per disk (http://www.zimmers.net/cbmpics/deieee2.html) whereas the > 1571 can store 360k per disk (http://www.zimmers.net/cbmpics/d1571s.html) so > I don't think this is an option. > > As far as importing into access goes, I am willing to do a bit of mucking > around. Getting the data in plain text would be great. > > Lance. > > -----Original Message----- > From: TeoZ [mailto:teoz@neo.rr.com] > Sent: Friday, 25 July 2003 9:05 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Data conversion (Commodore 64, 8250 Disk Drive, SuperBase) > > > If a commodore 1571 drive can read your disk you can connect the 1571 direct > to a pc via parrallel port and use software to dump the files directly to > the pc. Converting the database to access might be a problem if the format > isnt standard. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2743816122&category=1247 > > I have used this type of cable to copy files from a pc to a 1541 drive and > back , supports 1571 (double sided 5.25) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lance Semmens" > To: "Cctalk (E-mail)" > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 7:19 PM > Subject: Data conversion (Commodore 64, 8250 Disk Drive, SuperBase) > > > > I have 4 disks (5 1/4 floppies) full of data that I'm looking to import > into > > an Access Database. > > The data was written on a Commodore 64 with an 8250 double disk drive. The > > custom software > > that was being used sat on top of a SuperBase database. > > > > If anyone has the means to convert this data or can offer some tips as to > > how I could go about > > doing this it would be much appreciated. > > > > Thanks, > > Lance. From allain at panix.com Thu Jul 24 22:39:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: _offline_ scanning. References: Message-ID: <003001c3525d$9d9db360$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> With all this talk about Virtual Libraries, (I'm for them as long as the paper source is offered up to the list before discard*) a question comes to mind. Anybody offer a scanner that goes directly to disk, possibly via TWAIN over USB? Seems possible since there are digital camera solutions that do that. My dad wants to do scanning and is computer shy... the idea is that I would visit him semiregularly and offload/OCR/organize his work then. This would involve the destruction of NO manuals. John A. *And the Librarian replicates the storage to prudent backup media. From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Jul 24 23:02:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: _offline_ scanning. References: <003001c3525d$9d9db360$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <00ae01c35260$d34728e0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Get the guy an old mac with an old scsi scanner. The OS doesnt need wiped every year like windows, if he moves directories around it wont kill the apps, no registyr problems etc. Those classic 68k/early PCI macs are SO easy to get around on he should not have much of a problem (give away cheap too). Just make sure he has an OS drive he should not touch and a work drive he can do whatever he wants on. You can get him some older editing apps for next to nothing on ebay. You really need the monitor screen to specify the area that gets captured, to make sure it came in nicely, and to make sure you dont have duplicates. Most older people who are computer shy are just intimidated with newer computers that have tons of icons all over the place, the classic mac interface and clean desktop isnt as intimidating. You also dont have to worry about driver problems since everything on the older macs have built in drivers or like scsi are auto detected on bootup. No I am not a mac fanatic. I am very computer literate mostly from PC's but for some users who dont want to even know about the hardware an old mac is the way to get them started enjoying computers. TZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 11:34 PM Subject: _offline_ scanning. > With all this talk about Virtual Libraries, (I'm for them > as long as the paper source is offered up to the list > before discard*) a question comes to mind. > > Anybody offer a scanner that goes directly to disk, > possibly via TWAIN over USB? Seems possible > since there are digital camera solutions that do that. > My dad wants to do scanning and is computer shy... > the idea is that I would visit him semiregularly and > offload/OCR/organize his work then. > This would involve the destruction of NO manuals. > > John A. > *And the Librarian replicates the > storage to prudent backup media. From cb at mythtech.net Thu Jul 24 23:15:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: _offline_ scanning. Message-ID: >Anybody offer a scanner that goes directly to disk, >possibly via TWAIN over USB? Seems possible >since there are digital camera solutions that do that. >My dad wants to do scanning and is computer shy... >the idea is that I would visit him semiregularly and >offload/OCR/organize his work then. >This would involve the destruction of NO manuals. I don't know about directly to disk, but I can say that Adobe Acrobat's "Import from Scanner" feature makes it just about directly to disk. With Acrobat (full version, not Reader), when I choose import, it brings up my scanner control, I click SCAN (or change options if I want, but I have it preset to how I want things and it keeps it how I last set it). My scanner starts, scans the sheets in the sheet feeder, and then Acrobat prompts me to reinsert for the back side, or asks if there are any more pages (depending on if I said it was double or single sided). Once the scan process is done, I'm left with an open new PDF file of all the scanned pages, in order (including properly ordering the double sided pages). I just choose Save, give it a name, and I'm done. So basically, it isn't directly to disk, but it is only about 6 steps to a finished product, and all the steps are fairly simple so a quick cheat sheet of directions might be enough for all but the full fledged technophobes. -chris From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jul 24 23:41:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: _offline_ scanning. In-Reply-To: from "chris" at Jul 25, 2003 12:11:14 AM Message-ID: <200307250438.h6P4ctpG000400@shell1.aracnet.com> > So basically, it isn't directly to disk, but it is only about 6 steps to > a finished product, and all the steps are fairly simple so a quick cheat > sheet of directions might be enough for all but the full fledged > technophobes. The full version of Adobe Acrobat definitly gets my vote. I think V6 might even have some hooks for getting the documents OCR'd, but I can't remember (I'm still at V5). Zane From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Jul 25 02:08:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: scanning booklets for archive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000f01c3527b$148659b0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > a permanent place for the P854. It's getting a pain having to > move it off the chair every time I want to sit down). Things are obviously getting serious this month! > I really am suprised you couldn't find somebody who wanted > these originals... I think it's because we're all out of space :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Jul 25 02:35:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: Panasonic KXP4400 Laser Printer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9ba76f174c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message "Peter C. Wallace" wrote: > One word: Spamassassin Cheap-o PC + Slackware Linux + ADSL Modem + ECIADSL driver + Ethernet card + SpamAssassin = Lovely little router that rids you of spam ;) Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | video mods, 10BaseT (i3 EtherLAN600), http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 8xCD, framegrabber, teletext ... Puddy-tat's not so bwave in Gwanny's microwave! From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jul 25 04:36:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: Need to read 8-inch CP/M disks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jul 2003, Gary Robinson wrote: > I have a need to read some 8-inch CP/M disks. They're pretty old and I'm > nervous about sending them anywhere because I'm afraid that post-9/11 > package scanning could ruin them. I've had lots of disks sent to me in recent times and there's never been a problem. I also make sure anyone sending me magentic media writes in big, bold, red lettres on the packaging "MAGNETIC MEDIA INSIDE". -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From d_l_mcd at hotmail.com Fri Jul 25 08:25:01 2003 From: d_l_mcd at hotmail.com (Daniel McDonald) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: Obscure Fuji Unix Computer Message-ID: Hi Everybody, If you come across the following computer, or know where to find one, or know anything interesting about it, please let me know! Labelled as: Fuji MCS-16F Alleged OS: Unix OS9 Custom User Interface Software: Fuji MCS/2E V3.33 Installed Custom I/O Cards visible on back: 1. VM1161 2. VM1410 3. VM1310 There is one 5-1/4" floppy drive installed. This appears to be a mid-1980's era customized controller, and is being used to control a mid-1980's era Fuji SMT system. The problem is that the system owners are beginning to be very nervous about the long-term feasibility of the computer/controller and are searching for a backup while preparing for a surprisingly expensive software upgrade sometime in the future. Fuji no longer supports the installed software. This is also the type of thing that one may encounter in the usual places... in a dumpster, or in a pile at an auction or, well, you know, where ever. Rest assured that this particular model of obscure computer has some worth left in it, so please let me know if you encounter one! Thanks, Dan M Bellows Falls, Vermont USA From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Jul 25 08:27:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: Need to read 8-inch CP/M disks Message-ID: I remember a cartoon in a photo magazine showing a mangled envelope labeled "Photos Do Not Bend" with "Yes they do!" scribbled below that. ;) Bob -----Original Message----- From: Vintage Computer Festival [mailto:vcf@siconic.com] Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 4:27 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Need to read 8-inch CP/M disks I also make sure anyone sending me magentic media writes in big, bold, red lettres on the packaging "MAGNETIC MEDIA INSIDE". From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jul 25 09:53:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: List shenanigans? Message-ID: Is it just me or is the list dumping the same messages over and over again? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cb at mythtech.net Fri Jul 25 10:12:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: List shenanigans? Message-ID: >Is it just me or is the list dumping the same messages over and over >again? Just you. At least I'm not getting duplicates -chris From cpg at aladdin.de Fri Jul 25 14:10:00 2003 From: cpg at aladdin.de (Christian Groessler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: List shenanigans? Message-ID: <877k665sw3.fsf@aladdin.de> On 07/25/2003 11:09:10 AM AST chris wrote: > >>Is it just me or is the list dumping the same messages over and over >>again? > >Just you. At least I'm not getting duplicates I do. I thought that due to some local mail system hiccup somehow I was subscribed twice (I probably have sent multiple subscribe mails...). But if someone else gets them too.... ? regards, chris From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jul 25 14:18:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: Need to read 8-inch CP/M disks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030725121100.O60202@newshell.lmi.net> On Thu, 24 Jul 2003, Gary Robinson wrote: > I have a need to read some 8-inch CP/M disks. They're pretty old and I'm > nervous about sending them anywhere because I'm afraid that post-9/11 > package scanning could ruin them. WHICH CP/M format are they? (What kind of computer were they made on?) Are they SSSD? Are they SSDD or DSDD? (If so, then certain hardware issues become easier) Most of us haven't had any problems due to scanning. From menadeau at comcast.net Fri Jul 25 15:31:01 2003 From: menadeau at comcast.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: List shenanigans? References: Message-ID: <000b01c352ea$e85c64e0$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> I'm getting it, too. The same groups of messages several hours apart. --Mike Michael Nadeau Editor/Publisher Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource www.classictechpub.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 10:43 AM Subject: List shenanigans? > Is it just me or is the list dumping the same messages over and over > again? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From teoz at neo.rr.com Fri Jul 25 15:48:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: Soldering Iron Message-ID: <029e01c352ed$4fd51fc0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> I need a precision soldering iron (long needle like tip) for electronics use, any suggestions? I found one made by GOOT a CS-30 in an old radio shack catalog but they no longer have them and I cant find a website in the US that still sells them. I have an scsi chip on an amiga addon board that got wacked in shipping and a few of the pins have broken off from their solder pads (its a surface mount chip and none of the pins are broke just desoldered). My current 23 watt soldering iron has a tip thats just too big for this kind of work. Thanks for any help (I assume one can be found for around $20) From Innfogra at aol.com Fri Jul 25 15:50:01 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: List shenanigans? Message-ID: <16c.21da7d4b.2c52f13e@aol.com> Not I. I get single messages only. Paxton Astoria, OR From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Fri Jul 25 16:17:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: Soldering Iron In-Reply-To: <029e01c352ed$4fd51fc0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030725170439.08c3aec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> When I had to solder on some surface mount chips, I took a file and filed down one of the larger tips I already had. Tapered it down to a nice small ended tip that did the job well. Best Regards At 04:42 PM 7/25/03 -0400, you wrote: >I need a precision soldering iron (long needle like tip) for electronics use, >any suggestions? > >I found one made by GOOT a CS-30 in an old radio shack catalog but they no >longer have them and I cant find a website in the US that still sells them. > >I have an scsi chip on an amiga addon board that got wacked in shipping and a >few of the pins have broken off from their solder pads (its a surface mount >chip and none of the pins are broke just desoldered). My current 23 watt >soldering iron has a tip thats just too big for this kind of work. > >Thanks for any help (I assume one can be found for around $20) From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Fri Jul 25 16:24:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: Soldering Iron Message-ID: <200307252120.OAA07167@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Use the bigger iron you have with excess flux. If there is too much solder, use wick or sucker to remove excess. With the flux, the solder will not tend to bridge. Dwight >From: TeoZ > >I need a precision soldering iron (long needle like tip) for electronics use, >any suggestions? > >I found one made by GOOT a CS-30 in an old radio shack catalog but they no >longer have them and I cant find a website in the US that still sells them. > >I have an scsi chip on an amiga addon board that got wacked in shipping and a >few of the pins have broken off from their solder pads (its a surface mount >chip and none of the pins are broke just desoldered). My current 23 watt >soldering iron has a tip thats just too big for this kind of work. > >Thanks for any help (I assume one can be found for around $20) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 25 16:33:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: Soldering Iron In-Reply-To: <029e01c352ed$4fd51fc0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> from "TeoZ" at Jul 25, 3 04:42:34 pm Message-ID: > I need a precision soldering iron (long needle like tip) for electronics use, > any suggestions? There was a small and cheap Weller (I think it was a 12W element, and certainly not temperature controlled) that had a very find (0.25mm) needle bit available. I have no idea if this iron was ever sold in the US (the one I saw was 240V), but it was useable for SMD work. > I have an scsi chip on an amiga addon board that got wacked in shipping and a > few of the pins have broken off from their solder pads (its a surface mount > chip and none of the pins are broke just desoldered). My current 23 watt > soldering iron has a tip thats just too big for this kind of work. Well, oftem you can use an iron that's too large if you're careful. Resolder all the pins, don't worry too much about bridges. Then clean up the bridges and blobs with desolder braid (soldamop, whatever you call it). Make sure there are no shorts before applying power. Are you sure the pins are desoldered? Often this sort of damage rips the pads off the board, which means you have a much worse repair. -tony From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Jul 25 16:39:00 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 pictures In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030725170439.08c3aec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030725170439.08c3aec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Message-ID: <200307251735.30148.jcwren@jcwren.com> Someone else may have posted this before, I don't remember. http://wandel.ca/ibm5100/index.html From vance at neurotica.com Fri Jul 25 16:50:00 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: List shenanigans? In-Reply-To: <000b01c352ea$e85c64e0$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> Message-ID: It happens for me intermittently, but hasn't happened in weeks. Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 25 Jul 2003, Michael Nadeau wrote: > I'm getting it, too. The same groups of messages several hours apart. > > --Mike > > Michael Nadeau > Editor/Publisher > Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource > www.classictechpub.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 10:43 AM > Subject: List shenanigans? > > > > Is it just me or is the list dumping the same messages over and over > > again? > > > > -- > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * From vance at neurotica.com Fri Jul 25 16:51:00 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: Soldering Iron In-Reply-To: <029e01c352ed$4fd51fc0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: Weller is good. Metcal is better. Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 25 Jul 2003, TeoZ wrote: > I need a precision soldering iron (long needle like tip) for electronics use, > any suggestions? > > I found one made by GOOT a CS-30 in an old radio shack catalog but they no > longer have them and I cant find a website in the US that still sells them. > > I have an scsi chip on an amiga addon board that got wacked in shipping and a > few of the pins have broken off from their solder pads (its a surface mount > chip and none of the pins are broke just desoldered). My current 23 watt > soldering iron has a tip thats just too big for this kind of work. > > Thanks for any help (I assume one can be found for around $20) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 25 17:46:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: Soldering Iron In-Reply-To: from "vance@neurotica.com" at Jul 25, 3 05:47:24 pm Message-ID: > Weller is good. Metcal is better. Agreed. I doubt, though, that you'll find a good (temperature-controlled) Weller or any Metcal for $20... -tony From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Jul 25 20:43:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: ADMIN -> Re: List shenanigans? References: <000b01c352ea$e85c64e0$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> Message-ID: <000201c35316$cc771cd0$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> *sigh* Please, PLEASE would people READ this once? This has come up on the list several times before. I saw Sellam say that he's getting double posts. There are two things that will cause this. One is server to server mail delivery problems - possibly, but not necessarily, our server here. More than likely, the remote server (I can usually tell if it's ours, and I have not seen that error mode in a while). In Sellam's case, I suspect it's his mail server or likely somewhere upstream from his. The other thing that will cause this is if a user has subscribed to both cctech and cctalk, at the same time. I just took the time to check the three users who chimed in with "me too", and guess what... all 3 of you are subscribed to BOTH lists, and none of you have one set to "no email". So, as the web page where you sign up CLEARLY states.... you should subscribe to one list view, or the other, NOT BOTH. So, Michael Nadeau, Christian Groessler, Chris (and any others getting dupliate emails), please pick ONE list view, and unsubscribe from the other one. Your problems will go away. Remember, cctech and ccalk are not two separate lists. They are the same list, just anything offtopic is dev/null'd on the cctech view. All posts on cctech DO show up on cctalk immediately. Any posts on cctalk that are on-topic, DO show up on cctech. Hope that clears it up! Jay West From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jul 25 21:47:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: FS: RARE black Bell & Howell Apple ][ Plus with drives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jul 2003, Steven N. Hirsch wrote: > On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Tothwolf wrote: > > > I also used to use a clone type Apple II at one time, but I don't > > remember who made it. Its case vaguely reminded me of an Apple III. It > > had two built-in 5.25" floppy drives in the upper section of the case > > below where the monitor sat. > > Sounds like a Basis 108 It doesn't look like one of those, but I also found other photos while searching for that one, and I believe the system was a Franklin Ace 1200. I distinctly remember the *two* built-in floppy drives in the top part of the case. I also remember the power switch being on the side of the case, not the usual back/right location of true Apple systems. Does anyone have one of these in their collection? That was the only one of those I've ever seen/used, and I've not (yet) seen one in a surplus shop or auction. -Toth From dan at ekoan.com Fri Jul 25 22:45:01 2003 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: FS: RARE black Bell & Howell Apple ][ Plus with drives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030725234112.04bf8830@enigma> At 09:57 PM 7/25/03 -0500, you wrote: >I believe the system was a Franklin Ace 1200. >I distinctly remember the *two* built-in floppy drives in the top part of >the case. I also remember the power switch being on the side of the case, >not the usual back/right location of true Apple systems. Does anyone have >one of these in their collection? That was the only one of those I've ever >seen/used, and I've not (yet) seen one in a surplus shop or auction. I have two Franklin Ace 1000 Plus machines, which have a single 5-1/4" floppy drive in a housing above the CPU. The 1200 apparently is an 1000 Plus with two drives. The power switch is on the back, right next to the power plug. According to the photo at the bottom of this page: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Peaks/9595/franklin.html the power switch for the 1200 is also on the back. Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jul 25 23:10:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: FS: RARE black Bell & Howell Apple ][ Plus with drives In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030725234112.04bf8830@enigma> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030725234112.04bf8830@enigma> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jul 2003, Dan Veeneman wrote: > At 09:57 PM 7/25/03 -0500, you wrote: > > > I believe the system was a Franklin Ace 1200. I distinctly remember > > the *two* built-in floppy drives in the top part of the case. I also > > remember the power switch being on the side of the case, not the usual > > back/right location of true Apple systems. Does anyone have one of > > these in their collection? That was the only one of those I've ever > > seen/used, and I've not (yet) seen one in a surplus shop or auction. > > I have two Franklin Ace 1000 Plus machines, which have a single 5-1/4" > floppy drive in a housing above the CPU. The 1200 apparently is an 1000 > Plus with two drives. > > The power switch is on the back, right next to the power plug. > According to the photo at the bottom of this page: > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Peaks/9595/franklin.html > the power switch for the 1200 is also on the back. I wonder if they had two revisions of the 1200? I sure seem to remember it having the power switch on the right side of the case. It could be that I'm just thinking of yet another computer's power switch location. I'm quite sure that the system I used was a 1200, and I am starting to remember more about the internals as I found more photos. -Toth From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jul 26 03:01:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: FS: RARE black Bell & Howell Apple ][ Plus with drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jul 2003, Tothwolf wrote: > It doesn't look like one of those, but I also found other photos while > searching for that one, and I believe the system was a Franklin Ace 1200. > I distinctly remember the *two* built-in floppy drives in the top part of > the case. I also remember the power switch being on the side of the case, > not the usual back/right location of true Apple systems. Does anyone have > one of these in their collection? That was the only one of those I've ever > seen/used, and I've not (yet) seen one in a surplus shop or auction. I've got one. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jul 26 04:34:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: Need Synapse N+1 manuals ($$$) Message-ID: I'm seeking any manuals for the Synapse Computer Corporation N+1 computer circa 1985. If you've got any please do contact me directly. I've got a bounty out for these! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From wrljet at yahoo.com Sat Jul 26 13:15:01 2003 From: wrljet at yahoo.com (Bill Lewis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: DEC AD01-A (was: DEC AD0L-A) References: <20030723170002.89688.46046.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <00eb01c353a1$646fe280$0300a8c0@WRL> > Rick Murphy wrote: > > > > I think you've got an AD01-A (the fourth character is a "1", not the > > letter "L".) > > Google searching for AD01-A yields a lot of good info. For example, > > You're right. The hyphen between the '1' and the 'A' was shift down to the bottom of the line, making the '1' look like an 'L'. I thought I saw AD0LA rather than AD01-A. Mine appears to be different from the one pictured on that webpage. > In that case, this manual may be some use, though it appears to be > describing a different (later?) model: > > "AD01-D Analog-to-Digital Conversion Subsystem Manual" > > http://208.190.133.201/decimages/AD01_manual.pdf (9.3 MiB) In any case my AD01-A has quite a different card layout than the AD01-D in that manual. Bill From mike at ambientdesign.com Sat Jul 26 19:23:00 2003 From: mike at ambientdesign.com (Mike van Bokhoven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: Calling ApleII experts...... References: Message-ID: <008f01c35187$81ec55d0$3d00a8c0@falco> > > across a BIOS chip for this M/Board?? If some one can provide me with the > > contents of the Eprom I can burn it from a file and test it if necasary. > You most likely don't need to go through all that trouble. Just take the > ROMs from any other Apple ][ motherboard and pop them into this one. For > minimal system operation you can just transfer ROM F8. For BASIC, you > also want ROM-D0, ROM-D8, ROM-E0, ROM-E8 and ROM-F0. I seem to recall it's necessary to be a bit careful with this - the original Apple II series (II, II+) used ROM ICs that were basically pin-compatible with standard EPROMS, but had an inverted enable line or something of the sort. Clone manufacturers simply used normal EPROMS. Hence, even if the actual contents of a clone EPROM is the same as the original Apple II ROM, you can't swap the two and have it work. It's a pity I can't remember the exact details; anyway, the practical upshot is that you can't use clone EPROMSs in real Apple IIs, or vice versa. Exception time: I once had an Apple II clone that used actual Apple ROM, it must have been licensed. The brand was Med Fly (yes, weird, these machines were sold into hospitals and doctors' surgeries). Mike. From rsteger at uclink.berkeley.edu Sat Jul 26 19:25:17 2003 From: rsteger at uclink.berkeley.edu (Ryan Steger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: Have any 387Sx-16's left? Message-ID: <3F1F41BB.1020105@uclink.berkeley.edu> Hi Chris, I am a grad student at UC Berkeley and I could use one of your 387sx-16's on a project I am working on. If you still have some and can spare one, I am in the mechanical engineering department at: Attn: R. Steger 2168 Etcheverry Hall Berkeley, CA 94720 Thanks, Ryan From holmberg at tiac.net Sat Jul 26 19:25:34 2003 From: holmberg at tiac.net (holmberg@tiac.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: Decwriter II has been taken Message-ID: <3F1F0D50.28906.5DE5DFA@localhost> The Decwriter II I offered for taking has been taken. I'm glad I was able to find a home for it. Thanks, Carl From bill at timeguy.com Sat Jul 26 19:25:50 2003 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: Token ring (UK) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030724103015.S58570-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Yeah - but just go out and try to find a PC motherboard with built-in token-ring nic, or a NAS box that supports TR, or one of the multi-function printer/copier/scanner appliances... Not to mention the rather obscene cost of TR nics and hubs/switches. 100Mb ethernet to the desktop with a switched connection to the server for each workstation seems to be working just fine, thanks. On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Bill Richman wrote: > > > We've been running IP over token-ring for years. Last year, we upgraded > > all our machines (200 of them) and in the process replaced almost all of > > our token-ring hubs with ethernet switches, and our TR nics with > > ethernet cards. We have a few old servers and some specialized machines > > that are still on TR; we have a Madge "Smart RingSwitch" with both > > token-ring and ethernet modules in it; it routes at the MAC layer, and > > seems to work great. > > You downgraded to Ethernet, huh? Token Ring runs 2Gbps already. > > Peace... Sridhar From ernestls at comcast.net Sat Jul 26 19:26:07 2003 From: ernestls at comcast.net (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: Kaypro PC ? == Micro 1 In-Reply-To: <004301c3519a$63b0f220$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Erik S. Klein > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 9:17 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Kaypro PC ? > > > Are you thinking of the Kaypro Robbie? > > http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=278 > > It doesn't match your description, but it's the only non-suitcase > machine I can remember that wasn't PC compatible. That's a cool looking computer but I discovered that the system that I was thinking of was the Kaypro Micro 1. Does anyone know the general specs for this system? Was it a Z80 based computer? It's not the Kaypro 1. The Micro 1 doesn't have a screen, and it's a desktop system that is no taller than a half-height 5.25 drive. From fritz_aus_dem_hause_chwolka at t-online.de Sat Jul 26 19:26:25 2003 From: fritz_aus_dem_hause_chwolka at t-online.de (Fritz Chwolka) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: 8-inch disk drives In-Reply-To: <20030723170929.B45946@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <19fa0g-0xE76m0@fwd06.sul.t-online.com> On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:15:17 -0700 (PDT), Fred Cisin wrote: >> > The MicrosSolutions Floppy controller (Compaticard) IS an 8bit ISA PC 1.2M >> > controller. >> > THE ONLY difference is SOFTWARE! >> > It ALSO will "only recognize 512 byte sectors and >> > only DOS file systems". > >The MicroSolutions floppy controller (Compaticard) is a very nice one, but >it won't help with Minc any more than a generic controller. That's right and therefore I have some questions. I took a look onto a MINC on a german webside and see that the minc is an interesting part. 1. Dos the minc us rt-11 as his os? 2. How is the data orgnized on the disk ? 3. Is the MINC disk readable onto another dec pdp-11 or similiar ? If yes isn't it better to try this first? Greetings from Fritz Chwolka > www.alterechner.de < From semlj001 at hotmail.com Sat Jul 26 19:26:43 2003 From: semlj001 at hotmail.com (Lance S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: Data conversion (Commodore, 8250 disk drive, superbase) Message-ID: I have 4 disks worth of data saved using a commodore 64 and an 8250 double disk drive. The program that they were saved in used SuperBase as it's database. I'm looking to somehow import this data into a microsoft access database. Converting it into plain text would be great. If anyone has the means to do this or has some pointers as to how I could accomplish this it would be great. Lance. _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail is now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/signup.asp From robin.england at dial.pipex.com Sat Jul 26 19:27:00 2003 From: robin.england at dial.pipex.com (robin england) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: Osborne Executive disks Message-ID: <1059055355.3f1fe6fbe922d@netmail.pipex.net> Hello Wayne Excuse the email out of the blue! I have just seen your reply to a post asking about disks for the Osborne Executive. For reference, the URL is :- http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2002-August/004906.html I am also in need of these images, I have one of these computers but no disks at all. Can you help me please? Thanks Robin England From Doyle.Bullock at robins.af.mil Sat Jul 26 19:27:18 2003 From: Doyle.Bullock at robins.af.mil (Bullock Doyle R Civ WRALC/MAILPB) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: 09877-10002 Message-ID: <6BAF987BB74AB5449B35B9D7DF080D315C846F@wrcl5as> We at Robins AF BASE are in need of a copy of a 09877-10002 Tape Binary Duplicator Tape. I just did a Google search for this part number and recieved the following. Do you still have these? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Doyle Bullock Eureka! Joe cctech@classiccmp.org Sun Feb 9 16:04:30 2003 * Previous message: CCS 2422 Floppy Disk Controller <009850.html> * Next message: Eureka! <009859.html> * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Well I didn't find the Holy Grail but this is close! I went to a hamfest today and in a box of junk I found the operating program for the HP 9877 Mass Memory unit! That's the box that has up to four tape drives installed and was used to mass duplicate HP 9825 tapes at the HP factory. The 9877 is a rare bird and was only offered to the public for one year (1979 IIRC) but I've got two of the 9877s, Tony D has one and NASA KSC has one but NO ONE has been able to locate the operating program for it till now. The tape APPEARS to be in good condition but you know how HP tapes are :-( The full name of the tape is "Duplicator 9825A/9877" and it's part number is 09877-10002. Other INTERESTING finds (in the same box no less!) were a new DC-300A tape (as used on the IBM 5100 and Tektronix 4051), a Plot 50 tape and Plot 50 Backup tape and an Alignment tape. All three are for the Tektronix 4051 computer. Wahoo! A good ClassiComp day! Joe * Previous message: CCS 2422 Floppy Disk Controller <009850.html> * Next message: Eureka! <009859.html> * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] From ernestls at comcast.net Sat Jul 26 19:27:35 2003 From: ernestls at comcast.net (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: Storing floppy dirves Message-ID: For long term storage, is it better to store a 5.25 inch floppy drive with a disk in the drive and the lever closed, or is it better to leave the door open and no disk in the drive? Either way, the drive will be in a sealed plastic bag to keep the dust out but I was just curious about whether or not to keep a diskette locked in the drive during storage. I've heard arguments for both. Thanks! From ernestls at comcast.net Sat Jul 26 19:27:52 2003 From: ernestls at comcast.net (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: Delayed messages to this group Message-ID: Has anyone else been experiencing posting delays for the cctalk list. I'm seeing delays of from 2 to 4 days, and I'm not sure why. I am posting this message at 10:30am on 7/24. It'll probably show up on the list right away because I made a point of asking. LOL. E. From tad at rave.com Sat Jul 26 19:28:10 2003 From: tad at rave.com (Tad) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: Benchmark test software for the PC? References: Message-ID: <3F201FBE.8080503@rave.com> Try an version 6 or 7 of Norton Utilities "sysinfo.exe The file nlib200.rtl is needed. http://www.interlab-net.com/docs/lightworks/utilities/nu/ Tad Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Joe wrote: > > > >>>>Does anyone know of any free benchmark test software for the PC? >>>>Preferably something that runs in DOS mode that I can boot off a floppy >>>>(to avoid having to boot into Windows). >>>> >>>> >>>There was the "Landmark Speed Test" which gave stupid results on anything >>>faster than a 486 (IIRC). >>>There's also American Megatrends's AMIDIAG diagnostic kit - a few old >>>versions were given away on the cover of "PC Plus" magazine. >>>Finally, there's Whetstone and Dhrystone - leave them going for a good half >>>hour, then check the results. >>> >>> >> I used to use the benckmark function that's part of Checkit. I can't say >>how accurate it is for pentium and newer machines but it worked fine for >>486 and lesser machines. I LIKE Checkit. I installed it on every machine >>that I worked on or used. >> >> > >I need something for Pentium II and higher. Anything that was written >pre-Pentium, such as Landmark which I used quite extensively, would give >meaningless results on anything beyond a Pentium. From bdegnan at degnanco.net Sat Jul 26 19:28:28 2003 From: bdegnan at degnanco.net (B.Degnan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: Pet 2001, (6550 unobtainium!) ?? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030724161635.02810200@degnanco.net> Hello - I read your text from... http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2003-January/014761.html I have a similar problem, the screen is full of characters, and I am trying to figure out what is the cause so that I can attempt to fix. I am going to try the 2114s from bgmicro.com as you mentioned. Any advice? It's a shame if I can't fix this thing, it's in nice cosmetic shape. Thanks in advance Bill Degnan Wilmington, DE From Degnan at degnanco.net Sat Jul 26 19:28:45 2003 From: Degnan at degnanco.net (Degnan@degnanco.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: Pet 2001 N16 Display Problem Message-ID: I have a Pet 2001 N16. When powered up, it displays a screen full of garbled characters. I read a message board post on http://www. classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2003-January/014761.html that recommended that I replace the 2114s (from bgmicro.com) to swap out the video RAM. Any opinions/suggestions? Has anyone had a similar experience? ???? D???@?? From classicmp at hexamon.org Sat Jul 26 19:29:05 2003 From: classicmp at hexamon.org (Fran) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:02 2005 Subject: Token ring (UK) In-Reply-To: <001b01c35015$77de52a0$4d4d2c0a@atx> References: <001b01c35015$77de52a0$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: <3F2053F5.6080701@hexamon.org> If anyone in the UK wants a 10-port (8 user plus Ring In/Ring Out) MAU you can have it free, if you pay postage. It is type 1 however it has the baluns for use with RJ45 cabling. It is an IBM 8228. F Andy Holt wrote: > Am clearing out my garage to make space for a PDP 11/34. > Is there any interest at all in a fair-sized pile of token ring stuff - some > 4MHz, some 4/16MHz (cards [inc unused PCMCIA], cables, MAUs etc) or should > it all go to the dump. > eBay prices appear to be too low to be worth the bother. > I suspect that thge only people who might be interested in collecting TR > have already been able to pick up as much as they want. > > This is in Rayleigh, Essex (England) > > Andy From ernestls at comcast.net Sat Jul 26 19:29:23 2003 From: ernestls at comcast.net (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: Differences in the Z80 processors? Message-ID: I have seen z80, z80a, and z80b processors, and I'm curious about what the differences are between the different versions of the processor? Is each newer version faster than the earlier model, like a 486-33/66/100 or are the differences more along the lines of additional commands (or something like that?) Or a combination of both? Also, can I use a Z80a or Z80b in place of the original Z80 if I want to replace a bad CPU? Thanks. E. From john at bipsnm.com Sat Jul 26 19:29:41 2003 From: john at bipsnm.com (john) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: Exidy software Message-ID: I have an Exidy with S-100 and floppy drives. I have missed placed my floppy disks. They had CP/M, an editor, assembler compiler, and utilities. I would be very interested in obtaining a copy of same. My floppies were 5.25, single sided, 97K. John From bips at newmex.com Sat Jul 26 19:29:59 2003 From: bips at newmex.com (bips) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: FW: Exidy software Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: john [mailto:john@bipsnm.com] Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 7:41 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Exidy software I have an Exidy with S-100 and floppy drives. I have missed placed my floppy disks. They had CP/M, an editor, assembler compiler, and utilities. I would be very interested in obtaining a copy of same. My floppies were 5.25, single sided, 97K. John From bill at timeguy.com Sat Jul 26 19:30:17 2003 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: KC Computer Swap Shop? Message-ID: <20030725140306.J58570-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Can someone supply an address and/or phone number for the Computer Swap Shop in Kansas City? Thanks! From fritz_aus_dem_hause_chwolka at t-online.de Sat Jul 26 19:30:35 2003 From: fritz_aus_dem_hause_chwolka at t-online.de (Fritz Chwolka) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: ADMIN -> Re: List shenanigans? In-Reply-To: <000201c35316$cc771cd0$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <19gHW1-0Gqvqa0@fwd11.sul.t-online.com> On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:36:21 -0500, Jay West wrote: >*sigh* > > >Remember, cctech and ccalk are not two separate lists. They are the same >list, just anything offtopic is dev/null'd on the cctech view. All posts on >cctech DO show up on cctalk immediately. Any posts on cctalk that are >on-topic, DO show up on cctech. > >Hope that clears it up! > >Jay West Thanks .. that will clear the same problem I noticed here at my subscription. Greetings from Fritz Chwolka > www.alterechner.de < From palamara at comcast.net Sat Jul 26 19:30:53 2003 From: palamara at comcast.net (Dave Palamara) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: 1981 Ohio Scientific C3-B computer-Looking for a good home Message-ID: <002501c35382$77f05980$af312744@midltn01.nj.comcast.net> I have a 1981 Ohio Scientific C3-B computer looking for a good home. This CP/M based computer has three processors (6502, 6800 and Z80), a Winchester 36 mb hard drive and two 8" floppy drives in a case a bit smaller than a four drawer file cabinet. It also has a keyboard equipped monitor, a Texas Instruments printer and associated software and manuals. It was running fine when it was last used about five years ago. Dave Palamara Atlantic Highlands, NJ 732-291-1444 (day) 732-872-0870 (home) From romboc at shaw.ca Sat Jul 26 19:31:11 2003 From: romboc at shaw.ca (Romboc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: Backup Tapes Message-ID: <3F22D9A0.7030704@shaw.ca> Hello, If you are still interested, I have a total of 11 compatible tapes (8 Teac CT-600N and 3 Maxell CS-600XD). All are used and have used labels. As far as I know, they all still work. (I still have the tape drive as well, but have no longer an operating Apple system, so I cannot check these). If you are interested, please let me know. romboc From we3 at sprynet.com Sat Jul 26 19:31:29 2003 From: we3 at sprynet.com (Walter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: at&t 458 Message-ID: <1059253793.978.2.camel@big.brainstock.org> Does anyone know anything about the at&t 458? I believe it's a serial daisy wheel printer. What I'm interested in is what the dip switch settings in back of the printer are supposed to be set to. If you have an at&t 458, when looking at it from the back, the dip switches are on lower left corner behind a little door which needs a screwdriver to pry open. Any help would be appreciated thanks. From ptremewe at bigpond.net.au Sat Jul 26 19:35:00 2003 From: ptremewe at bigpond.net.au (peter tremewen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: Calling ApleII experts...... References: <008f01c35187$81ec55d0$3d00a8c0@falco> Message-ID: <063401c353d6$346d7040$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> Thanks for the tip, If I can learn if this was done or not, and how it was done, I'll build an "adaptor" to make sure I get the signals around the right way, and everything else in the correct spots. It's not the first time I have heard of manufacturers of computers doing this. The Sinister Dragon. > > > contents of the Eprom I can burn it from a file and test it if necasary. > > You most likely don't need to go through all that trouble. Just take the > > ROMs from any other Apple ][ motherboard and pop them into this one. For > > minimal system operation you can just transfer ROM F8. For BASIC, you > > also want ROM-D0, ROM-D8, ROM-E0, ROM-E8 and ROM-F0. > > I seem to recall it's necessary to be a bit careful with this - the original > Apple II series (II, II+) used ROM ICs that were basically pin-compatible > with standard EPROMS, but had an inverted enable line or something of the > sort. Clone manufacturers simply used normal EPROMS. Hence, even if the > actual contents of a clone EPROM is the same as the original Apple II ROM, > you can't swap the two and have it work. From jwest at classiccmp.org Sat Jul 26 20:03:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: Delayed messages to this group References: Message-ID: <004f01c353da$4c80ef00$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Ernest wrote... > Has anyone else been experiencing posting delays for the cctalk list. I'm > seeing delays of from 2 to 4 days, and I'm not sure why. I am posting this > message at 10:30am on 7/24. It'll probably show up on the list right away > because I made a point of asking. LOL. Ernest.... your problems are due to you not being subscribed to this list under the address you are sending emails from. Your email above originated from ernestls@comcast.net, however, there is no such subscriber. There is an ernestls@attbi.net which may or may not be germane, but in any case your email was not coming from that address. As a result, your posts to the list always get held for moderation instead of going straight to the list and I have to approve each one. Hence, your delay. I would suggest you unsubscribe the ernestls@attbi.net address (IF it is in fact yours). Then subscribe to either cctalk or cctech as you prefer (but not both), and you won't have that delay any more. Jay West From rickb at bensene.com Sat Jul 26 20:54:00 2003 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: How to store (short-term) old computers? In-Reply-To: <063401c353d6$346d7040$21378490@vic.bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: <000501c353e0$7159dc00$030aa8c0@bensene.com> Hello, all, I am in the process of building a new home. However, the process isn't simple. We can't afford two mortgage payments at once. So, we are building a nice shop building on our property first. We'll then move a bunch of our stuff into the shop building, and live in a motor home on the property once our current house sells. Then, we'll begin building the house. I'm looking for advice on how to properly prepare a couple of vintage computers and periperals for storage in the shop. The shop will be insulated and sheetrocked. I plan on having a propane heater, and a 1-ton air conditioner to keep the temperature reasonably well controlled during the winter and summer. The floor is a concrete slab, and won't be covered initially. When the equipment first moves in, the insulation and sheetrock, as well as heat & AC might not be in yet. It all depends on the timing of the sale of our current house. Given that there might not be good temperature control (temps could get pretty cold in winter, and hot in summer) is there special prep. that should be done to assure safe storage? I have a PDP8/e system with two RK05 drives, a dual RX01 floppy drive system, and a paper tape reader/punch. I also have a PDP11/34A, with two RL02 drives, three RK05 drives, and an RX02 dual floppy drive system. Both machines are mounted in original DEC racks. My guess is that the machines will have to remain in stasis for a period of about 12 months or so before I'll be in a position to be able to revive them. Any recommendations as to how I should prepare these machines for moving, then storage? Moving them in the rack could be a bit of a problem. Would it be better to unrack the devices for moving, then put them back in the racks for storage? There'll probably be bugs that will be able to get into the equipment which it is in storage? Should I wrap the racks up in some kind of wrap to prevent bug-type critters from getting inside? If so, do I have to be concerned about condensation or 'stale air' causing any problems? Perhaps a couple of good-sized dessicant packs should be put in there if I seal them up? I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who's had good luck with short-term storage of old computers. Thanks, Rick Bensene From melamy at earthlink.net Sat Jul 26 21:10:01 2003 From: melamy at earthlink.net (Steve Thatcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: Differences in the Z80 processors? Message-ID: <260703207.63548@webbox.com> there is also the Z80H... 2.5 mhz, 4mhz, 6mhz, and finally 8 mhz replacing with a faster z80 should not pose a problem. It should actually relax the timing a bit and work more reliably depending on the original design. best regards, Steve Thatcher >--- Original Message --- >From: "Ernest" >To: >Date: 7/24/03 10:20:49 PM > I have seen z80, z80a, and z80b processors, and I'm curious about what the >differences are between the different versions of the processor? Is each >newer version faster than the earlier model, like a 486-33/66/100 or are the >differences more along the lines of additional commands (or something like >that?) Or a combination of both? > >Also, can I use a Z80a or Z80b in place of the original Z80 if I want to >replace a bad CPU? > >Thanks. > >E From evan947 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 26 21:27:00 2003 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: Eli Heffrons on Hampshire Street, Cambridge,MA, USA In-Reply-To: <200307240444.h6O4iQMP002914@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <20030727021358.97760.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> http://www.eli.com/index.cfm?template=history --- Steve Jones wrote: > Bob Shannon wrote: > . > > I've owned two, and serviced a great many back in > the Eli Heffron days. > > Yow! I drive by the site every now and again and > shed a tear for > what was once a wonderful place to lose an > afternoon. Back around > '89-91 I worked at MIT and Eli's was a prime source > of parts for > labs with tight hardware budgets to repair/upgrade > their ailing > MicroVAX II's and such. > > I remember wandering the shelves and seeing RX0n > drive cabinets, > whole pdp-11/44's, and other goodies that I didn't > do anything > about. What I did do was buy an SGI Iris 3130 with > monitor -- nobody > seemed to know what it was, but I got it to boot. I > believe I paid > $2k for that thing with 20" color monitor, and > hauled it home in a > friend's car. > > Fooled around with that for a couple months but > something in the > monitor went, probably a flyback. I decided by that > time that I > needed a Sun for a project I wanted to do when I > returned to college > (anybody remember UCB's Sprite?), so I sold the > thing with a dead > monitor for the same price. Who knows, maybe I could > have gotten > more, the thing was loaded with bitplane and > Geometry Engine > boards. But the weird System III derivative OS > really put me off at > the time. > > Manys the time I've wished I could go back in time > and raid those > shelves, or browse through the tables of electronics > parts... > > --Steve. From unr00ster at worldnet.att.net Sat Jul 26 21:43:00 2003 From: unr00ster at worldnet.att.net (UnRooster) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: Data conversion (Commodore, 8250 disk drive, superbase) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: see http://sta.c64.org/sc.html and http://sta.c64.org/xcables.html for programs and cable interfaces that you can use to connect a C= 1541/1571 drive to your PC. Using this you can get your data off your disks. -----Original Message----- From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Lance S Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 12:39 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Data conversion (Commodore, 8250 disk drive, superbase) I have 4 disks worth of data saved using a commodore 64 and an 8250 double disk drive. The program that they were saved in used SuperBase as it's database. I'm looking to somehow import this data into a microsoft access database. Converting it into plain text would be great. If anyone has the means to do this or has some pointers as to how I could accomplish this it would be great. Lance. _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail is now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/signup.asp From wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu Sat Jul 26 21:59:01 2003 From: wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu (Martin Scott Goldberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: IMSAI Restoration Suggestions? In-Reply-To: <008f01c35187$81ec55d0$3d00a8c0@falco> from "Mike van Bokhoven" at Jul 24, 2003 02:01:21 PM Message-ID: <200307270254.h6R2sVQC028212@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> I'm hoping someone on the list can help. I rescued an IMSAI 8080, as well as a large (and heavy) dual 8" drive chasis (fully enclosed). The IMSAI is stocked full of cards which I haven't figured out what they are yet as they're in pretty tight and I'm afraid of breaking something yanking them out. I'm assuming at least one of them is a terminal interface card and another an interface for the drives. Here's the two problems with the unit though: 1) It appears to be missing the main processor card. Everything else looks mint, including the control panel and the ribbon from the pannel to the control/processor card is intact as well. 2) The people (the university janitorial staff) that were throwing it out, cut off the power cord. Hence there is a stub of a cord connected to the power supply now running out the back. I'm basicly looking for any help/suggestions in how to indentify the cards and what I can do to fix the other two problems. Thanks! Marty From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jul 26 22:16:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: Data conversion (Commodore, 8250 disk drive, superbase) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030726195123.J73860@newshell.lmi.net> Interesting. The question was about data created with an 8250 drive. Have you transferred data using a 1541/1571 drive that had been created on an 8250? On Sat, 26 Jul 2003, UnRooster wrote: > see http://sta.c64.org/sc.html and http://sta.c64.org/xcables.html for > programs and cable interfaces that you can use to connect a C= 1541/1571 > drive to your PC. Using this you can get your data off your disks. > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Lance S > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 12:39 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Data conversion (Commodore, 8250 disk drive, superbase) > > > I have 4 disks worth of data saved using a commodore 64 and an 8250 double > disk drive. > The program that they were saved in used SuperBase as it's database. > > I'm looking to somehow import this data into a microsoft access database. > Converting it into plain text would be great. > > If anyone has the means to do this or has some pointers as to how I could > accomplish this it would be great. > > Lance. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail is now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to > http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/signup.asp From patrick at evocative.com Sat Jul 26 22:32:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: How to store (short-term) old computers? In-Reply-To: <000501c353e0$7159dc00$030aa8c0@bensene.com> Message-ID: Rick, Dredging out things from a (mostly) past life... if the concrete slab under your shop is new, it will cure hard enough to walk (and build) on quickly, but it will continue to give off heat and moisture at noticeable levels for at least 30 days. The heat is a trivial novelty, but the moisture is enough that if walls and windows and built over and around it, your windows can drip sweat profusely and bloom mildew at any temperature. This is certainly well above desirable levels of humidity for any electronics (vintage or otherwise), as well as metal tools, etc., and could get you off to a bad start. Good ventilation during curing helps a lot, but that may be at odds with temperature control. If the slab has been around a while, though, it's probably not an issue, unless there's water under it. Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Rick Bensene > Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 6:43 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: How to store (short-term) old computers? > > > Hello, all, > > I am in the process of building a new home. However, the process isn't > simple. We can't afford two mortgage payments at once. So, we are > building a nice shop building on our property first. > We'll then move a bunch of our stuff into the shop building, and live in > a motor home on the property once our current house sells. Then, we'll > begin building the house. > > I'm looking for advice on how to properly prepare a couple of vintage > computers and periperals > for storage in the shop. The shop will be insulated and sheetrocked. I > plan on having a propane > heater, and a 1-ton air conditioner to keep the temperature reasonably > well controlled during > the winter and summer. The floor is a concrete slab, and won't be > covered initially. When the equipment first moves in, the insulation > and sheetrock, as well as heat & AC might not be in yet. > It all depends on the timing of the sale of our current house. Given > that there might not be > good temperature control (temps could get pretty cold in winter, and hot > in summer) is there > special prep. that should be done to assure safe storage? > > I have a PDP8/e system with two RK05 drives, a dual RX01 floppy drive > system, and a paper tape reader/punch. I also have a PDP11/34A, with > two RL02 drives, three RK05 drives, and an RX02 dual floppy drive > system. > > Both machines are mounted in original DEC racks. > > My guess is that the machines will have to remain in stasis for a period > of about 12 months or so before I'll be in a position to be able to > revive them. > > Any recommendations as to how I should prepare these machines for > moving, then storage? > > Moving them in the rack could be a bit of a problem. Would it be better > to unrack the devices > for moving, then put them back in the racks for storage? > > There'll probably be bugs that will be able to get into the equipment > which it is in storage? > Should I wrap the racks up in some kind of wrap to prevent bug-type > critters from getting inside? > If so, do I have to be concerned about condensation or 'stale air' > causing any problems? > Perhaps a couple of good-sized dessicant packs should be put in there if > I seal them up? > > I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who's had good luck with short-term > storage of old computers. > > Thanks, > Rick Bensene From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sat Jul 26 23:22:01 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: KC Computer Swap Shop? In-Reply-To: <20030725140306.J58570-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> References: <20030725140306.J58570-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <3389.65.123.179.152.1059278497.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> > Can someone supply an address and/or phone number for the Computer Swap > Shop in Kansas City? Thanks! > It's on Johnson Drive about a mile east of I-635/Metcalf --- north side of street. Can't remember the rest. Gary Hildebrand From geoffr at zipcon.net Sun Jul 27 00:05:00 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: Delayed messages to this group In-Reply-To: <004f01c353da$4c80ef00$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030726220438.0310d9b0@mail.zipcon.net> At 07:59 PM 7/26/03 -0500, you wrote: >Your email above originated from ernestls@comcast.net, however, there is no >such subscriber. There is an ernestls@attbi.net which may or may not be >germane, but in any case your email was not coming from that address. That's because Comacast recently bought out att broadband cable and transitioned everyone over to comcast.net. From david_comley at yahoo.com Sun Jul 27 06:06:00 2003 From: david_comley at yahoo.com (David Comley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: Soldering Iron In-Reply-To: <029e01c352ed$4fd51fc0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030727110258.1596.qmail@web13504.mail.yahoo.com> --- TeoZ wrote: > I need a precision soldering iron (long needle like > tip) for electronics use, > any suggestions? Try: http://www.circuitspecialists.com They sell a temperature-controlled unit and an assortment of bits that run down to 0.5mm. I bought one last year when I was building an HF transceiver kit and paid $39.00 for it. Regards, Dave From tlake at twcny.rr.com Sun Jul 27 07:41:00 2003 From: tlake at twcny.rr.com (Tom Lake) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: Looking for Sharp pens Message-ID: <002801c353e9$6e95c3e0$b15a3b18@homebrew> Do you have any Sharp EA-850B (black) or EA-850C (color) pens available for sale? If so how many do you have and how much would you like for some? TIA Tom Lake From cvendel at att.net Sun Jul 27 07:41:50 2003 From: cvendel at att.net (cvendel@att.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: RL02 Assistance... Message-ID: <200307270124.h6R1ONZ23577@huey.classiccmp.org> Hi, I've got an RL02 connected to my Vax 4000-200 through an RLV12 QBus controller. The Drive is spinning up fine and the Ready light is Lit, the Fault light goes off once power to the Vax is started and doing a SHO DEV at the Chevron prompt and within OpenVMS both show: RLV12 Controller 0 (774400) -DLA3 (RL02) Which looks great from my perspective, the drive ID plug is a 3, so DLA3 makes total sense. In the SHO DEV within OpenVMS does display the drive as being online. So my problem is with MOUNT, everytime I go to mount the drive the system simply hangs and never seems to complete the mount, I end up having to CTRL- BREAK to Halt the system back to Chevron and b up again from my DSSI DIA0: Anyone have any idea's what I'm doing wrong or what may be wrong??? I've tried with a /FOREIGN too since this platters are from an 11/730 and many of the handwritten labels on the disk paks say RSTS on them, so I wasn't sure if it was a format issue or something, I could really use some help/advice from anyone with a lot of experience with the quirks of the RL's. Thanks much, PS: If anyone has an RK05 or RK07 DECPack for sale and possibly an RKV11D Qbus controller I am in the market for one. Curt From nsa at ureach.com Sun Jul 27 07:42:07 2003 From: nsa at ureach.com (Thomas Kimball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: Need Computer History Info Research Help 1965-1979 DEC pdp 8E Message-ID: <200307270629.CAA10855@www23.ureach.com> Hello folks, I have been trying to research and find out what certain computers and accessorys.I have wriiten below questions I have to the veries parts in the pictures in which I tring to figure out. I will be only sending out two of the pictures of these computers to start with. These computers where used in submarine dectection ASW. I'm trying to help the US Navy Historical Center out with info on the breakdown of the hardware. Any information would be of great help. Thanks ---------------------------------- Above where it reads FIELD-8E SYSTEMS 1 looks like some type of signal generator ? an analog output ring ? Are Some type of Data Transmitter that can send test signals for either teletypewriter or data communications. In the middle I would guess is a computer battery maybe ? And at the bottom you have a bunch of LCD lights there in the center above and also a lot of headphone jacks and looks like for each set of headphone jacks equals the amount of knobs to turn same in the center right headphone jacks to and up or down switch. Above MARKSMAN plotter-printer notice the numbers above Array recorder ? Center Above is duel Tape recorders Center Bottom is some type of Oscillator possible used as a computer monitor as then I guess that is what was used as computer monitor as today’s also use frequencies. The knobs on the oscillator would be used to see the frequency that the tape is recording from picking up the sound from the signal generator ? And at the bottom is the DEC PDP-8E Computer PDP-8E CPU with extended arithmetic element. KL8E 2400 baud communications port ________________________________________________ Get your own "800" number Voicemail, fax, email, and a lot more http://www.ureach.com/reg/tag [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type image/jpeg] [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type image/jpeg] From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Jul 27 07:42:23 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: Pet 2001, (6550 unobtainium!) ?? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030724161635.02810200@degnanco.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of B.Degnan > Sent: 24 July 2003 21:18 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Pet 2001, (6550 unobtainium!) ?? > > > Hello - I read your text from... > > http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2003-January/014761.html > > I have a similar problem, the screen is full of characters, and I > am trying > to figure out what is the cause so that I can attempt to fix. I am going > to try the 2114s from bgmicro.com as you mentioned. Any advice? With my machines (except the TRS80 model 1 I've got) I've found that garbage on the screen is nearly always bad video RAM, so yes replacing those 2 chips is a good place to start. As you can see in the pix below my PET 2001 is happy now. http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Commodore/pet2001/pet2001.php Of course your mileage may vary - there are other reasons for garbage but they depend on whether the garbage is random or identical at every powerup. If the garbage is identical you could have a bad RAM chip. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum (New version!) www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jul 27 12:16:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? References: <20030727021358.97760.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3F240856.1080105@tiac.net> What is the simplest usable disk file system to implement? More specifically, if your going to write a disk file system from scratch, what would be the easiest way to implement some basic file system functionality? How did some of the very early DOS systems allocate disk space in the days before FAT tables, etc? Just how simply can this be done? From frustum at pacbell.net Sun Jul 27 12:34:00 2003 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <3F240856.1080105@tiac.net> References: <20030727021358.97760.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> <3F240856.1080105@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3F240C2B.2040408@pacbell.net> Bob Shannon wrote: > What is the simplest usable disk file system to implement? > > More specifically, if your going to write a disk file system from > scratch, what would be the easiest way to implement > some basic file system functionality? > > How did some of the very early DOS systems allocate disk space in the > days before FAT tables, etc? > > Just how simply can this be done? > The wang 2200 that I have (pre 1975) has two modes: 1) direct access. the program and read or write any absolutely address sector, which is 256 bytes. this isn't what you asked for. 2) random access tape. the first N sectors of the disk contain a catalog of files on the disk. an entry consists of 8 bytes of filename, two bytes of starting sector, two bytes of final sector (or is it size?) and an attribute byte (program/data). it is quite primitive. if you want to create a data file, you must first reserve all the space you will ever need for it. unused parts of the file still take up space. if the file does grow bigger than you had already preallocated, you must basically shuffle files around on disk to make room. when you delete a file, it just makes a hole in your map. all sectors are allocated linearly. it is very simple, but not too convenient. From paul at frixxon.co.uk Sun Jul 27 12:37:00 2003 From: paul at frixxon.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: Manx [was: Re: scanning booklets for archive] In-Reply-To: <200307231926.h6NJQ6Wj027407@spies.com> References: <200307231926.h6NJQ6Wj027407@spies.com> Message-ID: <3F240CE2.1090506@frixxon.co.uk> Al Kossow wrote: > Do you know if this can be put on line? Someone was asking about > it on alt.sys.pdp8 recently > > DEC-8I-H2CA-D PP8/I High-Speed Paper-Tape Punch Option Functional Description > DEC-8I-H2DA-D PR8/I High-Speed Perforated Tape Reader and Control Option Functional Description > DEC-8I-H8NA-D KT8/I Time-Sharing Option Functional Description > DEC-8I-HOCA-D KE8/I Extended Arithmetic Element > DEC-8I-HODA-D KB8/I General Input/Output Interface Option Description I don't have copies of any of those manuals. I got those part numbers and titles from another PDP-8/I document (probably the Maintenance Manual). They are in the catalogue so that people in need of a document can ask for a particular one, but there is no guarantee that anyone has them, sorry. - Paul From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jul 27 12:51:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? References: <20030727021358.97760.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> <3F240856.1080105@tiac.net> <3F240C2B.2040408@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <3F241087.9010906@tiac.net> This sounds just about right, vintage-wise! Ok, so once you have a hole, do you only recover that disk space by SQUEEZEing the disk? I think RT-11 works this way, at least I recall the SQUEEZE command making the disk free space larger. Is a FAT needed for this, or is there a simple way to calculate this on the fly? Jim Battle wrote: >> > > The wang 2200 that I have (pre 1975) has two modes: > > 1) direct access. the program and read or write any absolutely > address sector, which is 256 bytes. this isn't what you asked for. > > 2) random access tape. the first N sectors of the disk contain a > catalog of files on the disk. an entry consists of 8 bytes of > filename, two bytes of starting sector, two bytes of final sector (or > is it size?) and an attribute byte (program/data). it is quite > primitive. if you want to create a data file, you must first reserve > all the space you will ever need for it. unused parts of the file > still take up space. if the file does grow bigger than you had already > preallocated, you must basically shuffle files around on disk to make > room. when you delete a file, it just makes a hole in your map. all > sectors are allocated linearly. > > it is very simple, but not too convenient. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Jul 27 12:52:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? References: <20030727021358.97760.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> <3F240856.1080105@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3F240F82.9040702@jetnet.ab.ca> Bob Shannon wrote: > What is the simplest usable disk file system to implement? > > More specifically, if your going to write a disk file system from > scratch, what would be the easiest way to implement > some basic file system functionality? > > How did some of the very early DOS systems allocate disk space in the > days before FAT tables, etc? > > Just how simply can this be done? > > Use the whole disk ... block by block ... FIG FORTH worked this way. From patrick at evocative.com Sun Jul 27 12:57:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <3F240856.1080105@tiac.net> Message-ID: Bob, In "from scratch" projects I've done, I've always just implemented the MS/PC-DOS FAT filesystem. It's simple, and it has the advantage of being readable and writable from any regular desktop PC directly. I've also done several variants of *nix filesystems, which are only slightly more complex, but perform much better at the expense of a bit of RAM. Naturally, if you stick to the standards, you'll have no trouble reading, writing (and verifying the correctness of) these volumes from Linux or FreeBSD. I prefer the former for floppies and other small-size removables, that latter for hard disks. Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Bob Shannon > Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 10:14 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? > > > What is the simplest usable disk file system to implement? > > More specifically, if your going to write a disk file system from > scratch, what would be the easiest way to implement > some basic file system functionality? > > How did some of the very early DOS systems allocate disk space in the > days before FAT tables, etc? > > Just how simply can this be done? From paul at frixxon.co.uk Sun Jul 27 13:27:00 2003 From: paul at frixxon.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: Decdocs.org Site and contents In-Reply-To: <22e4a1fb0e.1fb0e22e4a@ono.com> References: <22e4a1fb0e.1fb0e22e4a@ono.com> Message-ID: <3F241897.5040701@frixxon.co.uk> Sergio Pedraja Cabo wrote: > Hi. What happened finally with this website and its contents ? > I offered to support it, but somebody in the USA had interest too > and I leave to pass the matter. Most of the documents on decdocs.org came from the DEC MDS CDs of December 1994, donated by Tim Shoppa. At least two sites are now mirroring these: - http://www.purdueriots.com/ (Patrick Finnegan) - http://cmcnabb.cc.vt.edu/dec94mds/ (Christopher McNabb) (I see that Benjamin Gardiner's mirror has now disappeared, for bandwidth reasons.) AFAICS, there were eight documents on decdocs.org that are not available elsewhere, the last five of which are brochures: EK-1000B-PG.002 "DEC 10000 AXP, VAX 10000 Operations Manual" EK-410AB-MG.C01 "DSSI VMScluster Installation and Troubleshooting Guide" EK-D4AXP-TS.B01 "Alpha AXP DSSI VMScluster Installation and Troubleshooting Guide" EA 17957 18/79 "The 11/23s: Microcomputers with Mid-Range Mini Performance" "PDP-11 Software Bulletin: BATCH-11" "RSTS-11: PDP-11 Resource Timesharing System" "PDP-11 Software Bulletin: MACRO-11" ED-25610-47/83 "MicroVAX I: 32-bit Microcomputer" I've had a quick look at the Wayback Machine and some of these have been archived there. Grab them while you can! - Paul From patrick at evocative.com Sun Jul 27 13:32:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <3F240856.1080105@tiac.net> Message-ID: > How did some of the very early DOS systems allocate disk space in the > days before FAT tables, etc? > > Just how simply can this be done? > Bob, pre-CP/M, the fairly popular North Star DOS filesystem simply used a directory (first four blocks of the filesystem) with the name, starting sector, number of sectors, and type for each file (16 bytes per entry). Each file was laid out contiguously on the disk, starting at the sector indicated and continuing for the set number of sectors. There was no file allocation table or similar structure. It's lightweight and simple, but it required you to know or "guess" the length of a new file when creating it. You could specify a starting sector when creating a file, but if you didn't, N*DOS would traverse the active directory entries to find the highest-numbered used sector (start+length of each active file), then create the new file at highest+1. And "growing" a file was a leap of faith--if there was free space after it (and you had to know), you could delete the file, which modified only the directory (didn't touch the data blocks), and immediately recreate it with a new increased length using the same starting sector. You could, of course, shrink a file using the same process. An included utility would compress "holes" out of the filesystem caused by deleted or shrinking files. --Patrick From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 27 13:34:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <3F240856.1080105@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Jul 2003, Bob Shannon wrote: > What is the simplest usable disk file system to implement? > > More specifically, if your going to write a disk file system from > scratch, what would be the easiest way to implement > some basic file system functionality? > > How did some of the very early DOS systems allocate disk space in the > days before FAT tables, etc? > > Just how simply can this be done? One such way: Have some portion of the disk set aside for a fixed number of directory entries (the "directory"). Each directory entry has a certain number of characters for a filename (12 is good), a file type byte, a status byte, and a pointer to the portion of the disk where the file is stored. The file data is then stored on consecutive sectors, with the last one or two words (depending on word size implemented) pointing to the next sector of the file. Zero values means "end of file". There also needs to be a map somewhere specifying which sectors are free/used. This is basically how most early microcomputer DOS works. I take my example from Apple DOS 3.3. Anything simpler would involve having files take up static areas of the disk, perhaps defined by track boundries, with a fixed number of directory entries (as defined by the total number of file areas) and a limited file size (as defined by the size of each file area). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jul 27 14:31:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? References: Message-ID: <3F2427ED.1040108@tiac.net> Just how much code does this take, and where can I find source? Patrick Rigney wrote: >Bob, > >In "from scratch" projects I've done, I've always just implemented the >MS/PC-DOS FAT filesystem. It's simple, and it has the advantage of being >readable and writable from any regular desktop PC directly. I've also done >several variants of *nix filesystems, which are only slightly more complex, >but perform much better at the expense of a bit of RAM. Naturally, if you >stick to the standards, you'll have no trouble reading, writing (and >verifying the correctness of) these volumes from Linux or FreeBSD. I prefer >the former for floppies and other small-size removables, that latter for >hard disks. > >Patrick > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On >>Behalf Of Bob Shannon >>Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 10:14 AM >>To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? >> >> >>What is the simplest usable disk file system to implement? >> >>More specifically, if your going to write a disk file system from >>scratch, what would be the easiest way to implement >>some basic file system functionality? >> >>How did some of the very early DOS systems allocate disk space in the >>days before FAT tables, etc? >> >>Just how simply can this be done? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 27 14:35:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: Storing floppy dirves In-Reply-To: from "Ernest" at Jul 24, 3 10:34:11 am Message-ID: > For long term storage, is it better to store a 5.25 inch floppy drive with a > disk in the drive and the lever closed, or is it better to leave the door > open and no disk in the drive? Either way, the drive will be in a sealed > plastic bag to keep the dust out but I was just curious about whether or not > to keep a diskette locked in the drive during storage. I've heard arguments If the drive is not going to be moved (so there's no chance of the heads banging together due to vibration when moving it), I'd leave the door open, with no disk. In any case, I'd certainly use an anti-static plastic bag. A normal one will (not might!) damage any MOS chips on the PCB. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 27 14:35:21 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: Differences in the Z80 processors? In-Reply-To: from "Ernest" at Jul 24, 3 11:20:49 pm Message-ID: > I have seen z80, z80a, and z80b processors, and I'm curious about what the > differences are between the different versions of the processor? Is each > newer version faster than the earlier model, like a 486-33/66/100 or are the The only difference berween those processors is the maximum clacok frequency you can use : Z80 : 2.5MHz Z80A : 4MHz Z80B : 6MHz Z80H : 8MHz There are, AFAIK, no extra instructions in any of the versions. > Also, can I use a Z80a or Z80b in place of the original Z80 if I want to > replace a bad CPU? That should work fine -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 27 14:35:38 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <3F241087.9010906@tiac.net> from "Bob Shannon" at Jul 27, 3 01:48:55 pm Message-ID: > This sounds just about right, vintage-wise! > > Ok, so once you have a hole, do you only recover that disk space by > SQUEEZEing the disk? > > I think RT-11 works this way, at least I recall the SQUEEZE command Yep. > making the disk free space > larger. The HP LIF disk format works like this too. > > Is a FAT needed for this, or is there a simple way to calculate this on > the fly? The LIF directory just stores the starting block and length for each file. The directory is also stored in ascending order, so from the staring blocks of 2 adjacent files in the directory, and the length of the first one, you can work out if there's any space between them, and how big that space is. When a file is deleted, its directory entry is changed to indicate that the file no longer exists, If a shorter file is then stored on the disk, then the directory entry is changed again for the new file. THis then leaves some unused blocks on the disk which can't be used becuase there's no way to create a directory entry in the right place in the directory. -tony From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jul 27 14:53:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <3F240856.1080105@tiac.net> References: <20030727021358.97760.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> <3F240856.1080105@tiac.net> Message-ID: <20030727121448.C78507@newshell.lmi.net> On Sun, 27 Jul 2003, Bob Shannon wrote: > What is the simplest usable disk file system to implement? > More specifically, if your going to write a disk file system from > scratch, what would be the easiest way to implement > some basic file system functionality? What size drive? You might want something different for an 80G drive than for a 100K floppy > How did some of the very early DOS systems allocate disk space in the > days before FAT tables, etc? I thought that you said that you wanted PRACTICAL > Just how simply can this be done? It is unusual for somebody to set out to write a file system who isn't already familiar with what's been done before. (some say that UCSD P system was the last time that one was written by people who had no idea what they were doing) Do you WANT it to be compatible with anything else? If NOT, then you will also have to write conversion software. Maybe not now, but someday. Greatest compatibility would be to implement the MS-DOS structure. To make it simple, you can wait and add sub-directory support later (like MS did with 2.00) But if you want to roll your own from scratch, . . . Your drive head will spend more time in the DIRectory than anywhere else. (Yes, it could be cached in RAM, but remember the fiasco that resulted in having to release MS-DOS 6.2x!) Does your drive have a track 0 switch? If so, then that's where you oughta put the DIRectory. (CP/M (after reserved track(s)), MS-DOS, MAC 400/800K, etc.) If not, then consider mid-disk. (TRS-DOS, Coco, MS Stand-alone BASIC (NEC-DOS, etc.), OS/2 HPFS, etc.) Putting the DIRectory at the beginning of the usable space simplifies a few things. Decide how large an allocation unit you want. Large ones make for fewer to keep track of, with possible performance benefits, but wast more space if you use a lot of tiny files. You COULD use blocks that are SMALLER than a sector (128 bytes, ...); but you said simple. Decide the DIR structure. Fixed size for each FPDE (File Primary Directory Entry) avoids some unnecessary hassles. Filenames shorter than 8.3 are too short. Long filenames make for a much more complex DIR structure. (NOTE: Windoze does NOT have long filenames. It has 8.3 filenames, PLUS a file can also have a "nickname" that is NOT stored in that file's FPDE (MS stores the nicknames in the space that would otherwise have held FPDEs, but does NOT store it as an FPDE)) UCSD P system stores starting and ending block numbers, and can not have a non-contiguous file. CP/M stores a list of block numbers, and when that overflows the space provided in the FPDE, an additional directory enty is needed for the file. TRS-DOS stores a short list of starting points plus length for each starting point. Apple-DOS stores starting point, and then each file contains IN THE FILE'S SPACE, pointers to the next space. Thus forming a linked list of sectors, but giving you 254? bytes of data in each 256 byte sector. MS Stand-Alone BASIC, MS-DOS, and MAC 400K/800K use a linked list of block numbers stored in a separate section of the DIR. (MAC 400k/800k uses the same structure as MS-DOS, with just enough changes to not be interchangeable. (serious shortage of systems programmers in those days)) If you want full functionality, then nothing is going to be significantly less work to implement than MS-DOS, which would give you disk interchangeability. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jul 27 15:04:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <3F2427ED.1040108@tiac.net> References: <3F2427ED.1040108@tiac.net> Message-ID: <20030727125214.A78507@newshell.lmi.net> On Sun, 27 Jul 2003, Bob Shannon wrote: > Just how much code does this take, and where can I find source? MS-DOS 1.0 needed 16K of RAM. Full description, but NOT source code, is in the appendix of the MS/PC-DOS manuals from 1.0 - 2.00. After that, there was an appendectomy, and the appendix (still with "appendix #" page numbers) was sold separately as the DOS Technical Reference Manual. Are you using an 8086 family processor? There are a number of commercially available packages with source for an OS, such as Caldera Open-DOS (formerly DR-DOS, formerly CCP/M, etc.) Now, WHAT are you trying to do? From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jul 27 15:05:01 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? References: <20030727021358.97760.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> <3F240856.1080105@tiac.net> <3F240F82.9040702@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3F242FC5.8060204@tiac.net> ben franchuk wrote: > > Use the whole disk ... block by block ... FIG FORTH worked this way. > Very tempting, as I'm adding a file system to a threaded interpreter (not FORTH). But a basic block system is just too primative. Named files at a minimum. From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jul 27 15:18:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:03 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? References: Message-ID: <3F2432DD.20207@tiac.net> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >> > >One such way: > >Have some portion of the disk set aside for a fixed number of directory >entries (the "directory"). > >Each directory entry has a certain number of characters for a filename (12 >is good), a file type byte, a status byte, and a pointer to the portion of >the disk where the file is stored. > >The file data is then stored on consecutive sectors, with the last one or >two words (depending on word size implemented) pointing to the next sector >of the file. Zero values means "end of file". > If you have a pointer to form a linked list, why use consecutive sectors? > >There also needs to be a map somewhere specifying which sectors are >free/used. > Now things are getting complicated! This one component adds a major design decision I'd rather aviod, how to allocate unused sectors (linear versus first-fit). > > >This is basically how most early microcomputer DOS works. I take my >example from Apple DOS 3.3. > >Anything simpler would involve having files take up static areas of the >disk, perhaps defined by track boundries, with a fixed number of directory >entries (as defined by the total number of file areas) and a limited file >size (as defined by the size of each file area). > This latter approach is more like what I'm thinking of. Either fix the file size at creation time, or even simpler, set all files to some lenght, and longer files can be implemented (later?) as a linear set of files, a file and its extensions. Maybe allocate 64 kbytes to each file 'slot'. New files always get allocated at the end, as in the Northstar DOS example Patrick Rigney described. The trick then becomes how to efficiently 'squeeze' the disk drive to recover space from deleted files? From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jul 27 15:36:01 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? References: <3F2427ED.1040108@tiac.net> <20030727125214.A78507@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <3F243735.1040100@tiac.net> Fred Cisin wrote: >On Sun, 27 Jul 2003, Bob Shannon wrote: > >>Just how much code does this take, and where can I find source? >> > >MS-DOS 1.0 needed 16K of RAM. > >Full description, but NOT source code, is in the appendix of the MS/PC-DOS >manuals from 1.0 - 2.00. After that, there was an appendectomy, and the >appendix (still with "appendix #" page numbers) was sold separately as the >DOS Technical Reference Manual. > >Are you using an 8086 family processor? > >There are a number of commercially available packages with source for an >OS, such as Caldera Open-DOS (formerly DR-DOS, formerly CCP/M, etc.) > > >Now, WHAT are you trying to do? > Err, well, ok. I'm adding a file system to a custom programming language and operating system combination. The CPU is an HP minicomputer, ranging from 2116's up through the 21MX machines. Disk drives may range from the HP 7900A to CS/80 drives, as well as a custom ATA disk controller for HP 1000's. So disk sizes range from 5 mb per physical volume to 8 gb (or more) for the ATA disk. Media interchangability is not a factor. Basically a friend of mine and I, with some additional help, have written a threaded interpreter for HP 1000's that is designed to be a tool for bootstrapping and restoring any HP CPU from a 4K 2114 up to a E of F series with a full megaword of memory. We already have a sort of 'linear' file system for 7970-series mag tape, and are now working to add a file system to this beast. SIMH recently added (buggy) HP 7900 disk emulation, and in real-hardware land we have working CS-80 and ATA disk subsystems with working low-level code. So the trick is to write a layer between the threaded engine and the low level disk driver code. Having looked at several modern file systems, we can see where a lot of complexity comes from. But the machines we are writing code for predate these file systems by a decade or more. So these approaches don't seem to be a good fit at all. Something more along the lines of the Northstar DOS system looks more attractive. We are looking for a 1960's to 1970's sort of approach, only with reasonable file name sizes. Subdirectories are not mandatory if we can have several named logical units on a large physical drive (like the ATA controller). From spc at conman.org Sun Jul 27 15:45:00 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <3F2432DD.20207@tiac.net> from "Bob Shannon" at Jul 27, 2003 04:15:25 PM Message-ID: <20030727204138.F0D80140D49D@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Bob Shannon once stated: > > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > >Anything simpler would involve having files take up static areas of the > >disk, perhaps defined by track boundries, with a fixed number of directory > >entries (as defined by the total number of file areas) and a limited file > >size (as defined by the size of each file area). > > This latter approach is more like what I'm thinking of. > > Either fix the file size at creation time, or even simpler, set all files to > some lenght, and longer files can be implemented (later?) as a linear set of > files, a file and its extensions. Maybe allocate 64 kbytes to each file > 'slot'. Make the slots too big, and you limit the number of files available and waste much of the space on the disk. Too small, and you have overflow (file is too big for a slot). Fast, efficient (disk space usage), easy (to implement): pick any two 8-) I have come up with a system that is easy to implement, is quite efficient of disk space, but don't bother with measuring the speed because it will be S-L-O-W ... if you want fast and efficient, then possibly a B-tree or B-* disk format would be the way to go, but then that's not too easy to implement. Using a file per track is fast and easy, but doesn't use space efficiently. It also depends upon the size of the disk you are going to use---up to a few meg in size the MS-DOS FAT system (12 or 16 bit variants) will probably be the best bet---well documented with the ability for interoperability between most systems. -spc (my two bits worth ... ) From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jul 27 15:53:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? References: <20030727021358.97760.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> <3F240856.1080105@tiac.net> <20030727121448.C78507@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <3F243B05.9080508@tiac.net> Fred Cisin wrote: >>How did some of the very early DOS systems allocate disk space in the >>days before FAT tables, etc? >> > >I thought that you said that you wanted PRACTICAL > Yes, practical, like RT-11 was (is). Remember this is a file system for vintage hardware (well, including vintage hardware with a ATA disk hack). >>Just how simply can this be done? >> > >It is unusual for somebody to set out to write a file system who isn't >already familiar with what's been done before. (some say that UCSD P >system was the last time that one was written by people who had no idea >what they were doing) > Its unusual for anyone to try to write a file system without a lot of modern fluff added too. > >Do you WANT it to be compatible with anything else? >If NOT, then you will also have to write conversion software. Maybe not >now, but someday. > Actually, in this case, we already have ways to exchange data with conventional machines. We can support a vintage HP CPU hung off a serial port, as a parasite to a PC host machine, or a stand-alone system that cold boots from its own disk drive for HP's in collections with working peripherals. > >Greatest compatibility would be to implement the MS-DOS structure. To >make it simple, you can wait and add sub-directory support later (like MS >did with 2.00) > > >But if you want to roll your own from scratch, . . . >Your drive head will spend more time in the DIRectory than anywhere else. >(Yes, it could be cached in RAM, but remember the fiasco that resulted in >having to release MS-DOS 6.2x!) > >Does your drive have a track 0 switch? If so, then that's where you >oughta put the DIRectory. (CP/M (after reserved track(s)), MS-DOS, MAC >400/800K, etc.) If not, then consider mid-disk. (TRS-DOS, Coco, MS >Stand-alone BASIC (NEC-DOS, etc.), OS/2 HPFS, etc.) >Putting the DIRectory at the beginning of the usable space simplifies a >few things. > Not an option for actual HP hardware. HP's cold-boot roms load an intermediate loader program from track 0, and this intermediate loader (like MS-DOS's) then loads the O/S into memory. So to be compatible with HP's cold boot mechanisim track 0 holds the start of the intrim loader. > >Decide how large an allocation unit you want. Large ones make for fewer >to keep track of, with possible performance benefits, but wast more space >if you use a lot of tiny files. You COULD use blocks that are SMALLER >than a sector (128 bytes, ...); but you said simple. > Right, because of the way HP21MX machines page VM, and all HP1000's see memory, we are allocating units of 1024 16-bit words. In fact, the ATA disk controller reads, writes, and addresses its 8 gb disk as an array of 1024 16-bit words. > >Decide the DIR structure. >Fixed size for each FPDE (File Primary Directory Entry) avoids some >unnecessary hassles. > Yep, probably 32K words, given the vintage of the machines and their maximum logical memory capacity. > >Filenames shorter than 8.3 are too short. >Long filenames make for a much more complex DIR structure. > Yep, we are also placing file pointers for each file in the directory entry, so we can 'reopen' files from their last point of access, or 'open' them from the start. One of the reasons behind this hack is that we are limited to only 2 file buffers in memory (unless the file system becamse HP 21MX specific). We plan to keep this open to the 2116 and 2100A/S machines as well. > >(NOTE: Windoze does NOT have long filenames. It has 8.3 filenames, PLUS a >file can also have a "nickname" that is NOT stored in that file's FPDE >(MS stores the nicknames in the space that would otherwise have held >FPDEs, but does NOT store it as an FPDE)) > > >UCSD P system stores starting and ending block numbers, and can not have a >non-contiguous file. > This is actually a feature for HP machines. Some disk systems MUST use DMA transfers, and DMA transfers to and from the disk must be made to linear disk blocks. Nonlinear files add a lot of complexity. > >CP/M stores a list of block numbers, and when that overflows the space >provided in the FPDE, an additional directory enty is needed for the file. > So CP/M files are non-linear? Or can be non-linear? Then again, the BDOS is like 6K, right? > >TRS-DOS stores a short list of starting points plus length for each >starting point. > >Apple-DOS stores starting point, and then each file contains IN THE FILE'S >SPACE, pointers to the next space. Thus forming a linked list of sectors, >but giving you 254? bytes of data in each 256 byte sector. > >MS Stand-Alone BASIC, MS-DOS, and MAC 400K/800K use a linked list of block >numbers stored in a separate section of the DIR. >(MAC 400k/800k uses the same structure as MS-DOS, with just enough changes >to not be interchangeable. (serious shortage of systems programmers in >those days)) > > >If you want full functionality, then nothing is going to be significantly >less work to implement than MS-DOS, which would give you disk >interchangeability. > Define full functionality? RT-11 works just fine, and it does not have the level of 'fluff' found in many modern file systems. From mbg at TheWorld.com Sun Jul 27 16:12:01 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? Message-ID: <200307272108.RAA10313610@shell.TheWorld.com> On Sun, 27 Jul 2003, Bob Shannon wrote: One such way: >Have some portion of the disk set aside for a fixed number of directory >entries (the "directory"). This is what RT-11 does, a fixed number of blocks (512 bytes each) are set aside as the directory. They are read/written in two-block units, called directory segments, and each segment can handle up to 72 directory entries. >Each directory entry has a certain number of characters for a filename >(12 is good), a file type byte, a status byte, and a pointer to the >portion of the disk where the file is stored. It might also contain the date and time the file was created, or accessed, or updated. RT only contains the creation date. There was some thought at one point of getting it to record creation time as well, but was never done by DEC. Also, RT is a single-user system with the capability of having multiple jobs running, so for tentative files (ones which haven't closed yet), there is information kept in the entry about the channel on which the file is open. >The file data is then stored on consecutive sectors, with the last one or >two words (depending on word size implemented) pointing to the next >sector of the file. Zero values means "end of file". Or, as RT did, you have the size of the file in the directory entry, so a file exists in the contiguous blocks 'start' to 'start+size-1'. RT also keeps track of the end of a segment so that the directory segments can be linked in any order as files are created and deleted. Of course, a more simple method would be to treat the entire directory as a contiguous set of entries and then you only need an indication of the end of the directory. The status info can also keep track of read-only vs. read-write files, protected files, files which should not be moved in a 'SQUEEZE' operation, etc. >There also needs to be a map somewhere specifying which >sectors are free/used. That can be a lot of overhead, and can take up a fair amount of disk space depending on how it is implemented, and with each directory entry having start and size, it isn't needed. With the contiguous file system on RT, one *can* extend a file, though it either takes intimate knowledge of the directory structure on the part of the program, or extra code to open a new copy of the file (larger), copy everything from the old version to the new, closing the old, updating the new one and closing the new. A program with intimate knowledge of the directory would have to find the entry for the file, check the next entry and if it is an empty space, it could increase the file size (up to the size of the empty) so long as it decreased the size of the empty by the same amount. Of course if the next entry is not empty, then you have to revert to the first method. A program on RT can ask to create a file: 1) a specific size, or 2) half the largest free space on the disk or the second largest free space (whichever is greater). RT attempted to fulfill requests for specific sizes using a best-fit algorithm which attempted to maximize disk usage by minimizing the size of free space between allocated files. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | Member of Technical Staff | megan at savaje.com | | SavaJe Technologies, Inc. | (s/ at /@/) | | 100 Apollo Drive | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Chelmsford, MA 01460 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (978) 256 6521 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at TheWorld.com Sun Jul 27 16:15:01 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? Message-ID: <200307272111.RAA9979957@shell.TheWorld.com> >When a file is deleted, its directory entry is changed to indicate that >the file no longer exists, If a shorter file is then stored on the disk, >then the directory entry is changed again for the new file. THis then >leaves some unused blocks on the disk which can't be used becuase there's >no way to create a directory entry in the right place in the directory. RT handles this by adding a directory entry to describe the unallocated portion of the previous free space. This might mean having to move directory entries in a segment, and may require a segment split. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | Member of Technical Staff | megan at savaje.com | | SavaJe Technologies, Inc. | (s/ at /@/) | | 100 Apollo Drive | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Chelmsford, MA 01460 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (978) 256 6521 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From patrick at evocative.com Sun Jul 27 16:21:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <3F2427ED.1040108@tiac.net> Message-ID: Bob, Here's a public domain implementation... http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~pje/rdcf2.txt Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Bob Shannon > Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 12:29 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Simplest (practical) file system? > > > Just how much code does this take, and where can I find source? > > Patrick Rigney wrote: > > >Bob, > > > >In "from scratch" projects I've done, I've always just implemented the > >MS/PC-DOS FAT filesystem. It's simple, and it has the advantage of being > >readable and writable from any regular desktop PC directly. > I've also done > >several variants of *nix filesystems, which are only slightly > more complex, > >but perform much better at the expense of a bit of RAM. > Naturally, if you > >stick to the standards, you'll have no trouble reading, writing (and > >verifying the correctness of) these volumes from Linux or > FreeBSD. I prefer > >the former for floppies and other small-size removables, that latter for > >hard disks. > > > >Patrick > > > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > >>Behalf Of Bob Shannon > >>Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 10:14 AM > >>To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >>Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? > >> > >> > >>What is the simplest usable disk file system to implement? > >> > >>More specifically, if your going to write a disk file system from > >>scratch, what would be the easiest way to implement > >>some basic file system functionality? > >> > >>How did some of the very early DOS systems allocate disk space in the > >>days before FAT tables, etc? > >> > >>Just how simply can this be done? From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jul 27 16:23:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <3F243B05.9080508@tiac.net> References: <20030727021358.97760.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> <3F240856.1080105@tiac.net> <20030727121448.C78507@newshell.lmi.net> <3F243B05.9080508@tiac.net> Message-ID: <20030727140827.P78507@newshell.lmi.net> On Sun, 27 Jul 2003, Bob Shannon wrote: > >I thought that you said that you wanted PRACTICAL > Yes, practical, like RT-11 was (is). > >It is unusual for somebody to set out to write a file system who isn't > >already familiar with what's been done before. (some say that UCSD P > >system was the last time that one was written by people who had no idea > >what they were doing) > Its unusual for anyone to try to write a file system without a lot of > modern fluff added too. That was what Jobs intended for the Lisa. backfired. > >Putting the DIRectory at the beginning of the usable space simplifies a > >few things. > Not an option for actual HP hardware. HP's cold-boot roms load an > intermediate loader program from > track 0, and this intermediate loader (like MS-DOS's) then loads the O/S > into memory. So to be compatible > with HP's cold boot mechanisim track 0 holds the start of the intrim loader. Of course it is an option. IFF you want. "Beginning of usable space" would mean immediately following whatever fixed location stuff there is. MS-DOS and MAC DIR follows the boot record. DEC Rainbow MS-DOS follows a "boot track" > >Decide the DIR structure. > >Fixed size for each FPDE (File Primary Directory Entry) avoids some > >unnecessary hassles. > Yep, probably 32K words, given the vintage of the machines and their > maximum logical memory capacity. This is fixed size for the directory ENTRY, NOT file allocation. Some systems, mostly in order to accomodate long filenames, use a variably sized entry in the directory. > RT-11 works just fine, and it does not have the level of 'fluff' found > in many modern file systems. Then it sounds like the decision is made! From patrick at evocative.com Sun Jul 27 16:30:01 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <3F2427ED.1040108@tiac.net> Message-ID: > Just how much code does this take, and where can I find source? Bob, I looked in my archives, and I've got a much older implementation of the library referenced in my earlier posting that does not support directory structure, just flat filesystem--saves a lot. I'll send that under separate cover. --Patrick From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Jul 27 17:07:00 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: ADMIN -> Re: List shenanigans? In-Reply-To: <000201c35316$cc771cd0$c800a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <000b01c352ea$e85c64e0$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030727010531.00a1a020@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 07:36 PM 7/25/03 -0500, Jay West wrote: >*sigh* > >Please, PLEASE would people READ this once? This has come up on the list >several times before. > >I saw Sellam say that he's getting double posts. There are two things that >will cause this. One is server to server mail delivery problems - possibly, Dunno if this is related, but when I hit reply (default to all) I get this in the to: field, cctech@classiccmp.org, cctalk@classiccmp.org From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 27 17:48:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <20030727121448.C78507@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Jul 2003, Fred Cisin wrote: > Apple-DOS stores starting point, and then each file contains IN THE FILE'S > SPACE, pointers to the next space. Thus forming a linked list of sectors, > but giving you 254? bytes of data in each 256 byte sector. In Apple ProDOS, the file entry in the directory points to either the first block of the file (if the file is only one block in length) or a block that contains a list of all the blocks the file uses. This is still simple but elegant. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 27 17:55:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <3F2432DD.20207@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Jul 2003, Bob Shannon wrote: > >The file data is then stored on consecutive sectors, with the last one or > >two words (depending on word size implemented) pointing to the next sector > >of the file. Zero values means "end of file". > > > > If you have a pointer to form a linked list, why use consecutive sectors? I didn't mean that. The sectors can be in any order on any part of the disk. > >There also needs to be a map somewhere specifying which sectors are > >free/used. > > Now things are getting complicated! This one component adds a major > design decision I'd rather > aviod, how to allocate unused sectors (linear versus first-fit). That's not complicated at all. You just named two of several choices: linear or first-fit. Linear is the simplest. Just start at the beginning of the map and find the first free sector and use it, then repeat. When the disk is new, there will be lots of large blocks of open space. As the disk gets used over time, with files enlarged, shrunk, deleted and added, files will be all over the place. You then write a utility to re-organize the disk for better performance. First-fit only adds a little bit of logic to the code to allocate space. An easy algorithm would be to find the largest block of contiguous space in the map to fit the file you are saving. If none exists, use the largest contiguous space to store the first part of the file, then repeat until the file is saved. This is not a lot of programming. > >Anything simpler would involve having files take up static areas of the > >disk, perhaps defined by track boundries, with a fixed number of directory > >entries (as defined by the total number of file areas) and a limited file > >size (as defined by the size of each file area). > > > This latter approach is more like what I'm thinking of. Boring. > The trick then becomes how to efficiently 'squeeze' the disk drive to > recover space from deleted files? This is your trade off. You can spend the programming time doing a more proper filesystem ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jul 27 18:06:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? References: Message-ID: <3F245A2E.1040801@tiac.net> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Sun, 27 Jul 2003, Bob Shannon wrote: > > >>The trick then becomes how to efficiently 'squeeze' the disk drive to >>recover space from deleted files? >> > >This is your trade off. You can spend the programming time doing a more >proper filesystem ;) > It all comes down to available memory. We are talking about CPU's with a logical address space of 32K words. Much of that is already used, so I need something very small. And how 'correct' would it be to have a modern file system running on an HP2116 anyway? It may be far from practical. From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 27 18:08:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <200307272108.RAA10313610@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Jul 2003, Megan wrote: > >There also needs to be a map somewhere specifying which > >sectors are free/used. > > That can be a lot of overhead, and can take up a fair amount of disk space > depending on how it is implemented, and with each directory entry having > start and size, it isn't needed. Using one bit per byte (or word) you can store the status of up to 2048 allocation units (sectors, blocks, whatever) in 256 (8-bit) bytes of disk space. So assuming your allocation units--let's call them "sectors"--are 256 bytes, a map taking up one sector can give the free/used status for a 2048 sector disk, or a disk with a half-megabyte capacity. Each additional sector assigned for use in your map gives you another half-megabyte of allocation information. Not bad. > With the contiguous file system on RT, one *can* extend a file, though it > either takes intimate knowledge of the directory structure on the part of > the program, or extra code to open a new copy of the file (larger), copy > everything from the old version to the new, closing the old, updating the > new one and closing the new. A program with intimate knowledge of the > directory would have to find the entry for the file, check the next entry > and if it is an empty space, it could increase the file size (up to the > size of the empty) so long as it decreased the size of the empty by the > same amount. Of course if the next entry is not empty, then you have to > revert to the first method. It's a LOT easier (and much more efficient) to just implement an allocation map. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From patrick at evocative.com Sun Jul 27 18:21:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > In Apple ProDOS, the file entry in the directory points to either the > first block of the file (if the file is only one block in length) or a > block that contains a list of all the blocks the file uses. This is still > simple but elegant. Is the file size limited to the number of blocks that can be represented in a single map block, or does it allow multiple map blocks? If the latter, how does it chain them? --Patrick From donm at cts.com Sun Jul 27 18:36:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Storing floppy dirves In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jul 2003, Ernest wrote: > For long term storage, is it better to store a 5.25 inch floppy drive with a > disk in the drive and the lever closed, or is it better to leave the door > open and no disk in the drive? Either way, the drive will be in a sealed > plastic bag to keep the dust out but I was just curious about whether or not > to keep a diskette locked in the drive during storage. I've heard arguments > for both. Better without the disk. It could over time deposit some of its magnetic coating on the head and damage the first disk tried in the drive subsequently. - don > Thanks! From donm at cts.com Sun Jul 27 18:47:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: How to store (short-term) old computers? In-Reply-To: <000501c353e0$7159dc00$030aa8c0@bensene.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Jul 2003, Rick Bensene wrote: > Hello, all, > > I am in the process of building a new home. However, the process isn't > simple. We can't afford two mortgage payments at once. So, we are > building a nice shop building on our property first. > We'll then move a bunch of our stuff into the shop building, and live in > a motor home on the property once our current house sells. Then, we'll > begin building the house. > > I'm looking for advice on how to properly prepare a couple of vintage > computers and periperals > for storage in the shop. The shop will be insulated and sheetrocked. I > plan on having a propane > heater, and a 1-ton air conditioner to keep the temperature reasonably > well controlled during > the winter and summer. The floor is a concrete slab, and won't be > covered initially. When the equipment first moves in, the insulation > and sheetrock, as well as heat & AC might not be in yet. Frankly, I would worry more about possible damage being incurred during this installation than I would about temperature cycles. - don > It all depends on the timing of the sale of our current house. Given > that there might not be > good temperature control (temps could get pretty cold in winter, and hot > in summer) is there > special prep. that should be done to assure safe storage? > > I have a PDP8/e system with two RK05 drives, a dual RX01 floppy drive > system, and a paper tape reader/punch. I also have a PDP11/34A, with > two RL02 drives, three RK05 drives, and an RX02 dual floppy drive > system. > > Both machines are mounted in original DEC racks. > > My guess is that the machines will have to remain in stasis for a period > of about 12 months or so before I'll be in a position to be able to > revive them. > > Any recommendations as to how I should prepare these machines for > moving, then storage? > > Moving them in the rack could be a bit of a problem. Would it be better > to unrack the devices > for moving, then put them back in the racks for storage? > > There'll probably be bugs that will be able to get into the equipment > which it is in storage? > Should I wrap the racks up in some kind of wrap to prevent bug-type > critters from getting inside? > If so, do I have to be concerned about condensation or 'stale air' > causing any problems? > Perhaps a couple of good-sized dessicant packs should be put in there if > I seal them up? > > I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who's had good luck with short-term > storage of old computers. > > Thanks, > Rick Bensene From nsa at ureach.com Sun Jul 27 18:57:00 2003 From: nsa at ureach.com (Thomas Kimball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Texas Insturments 1975-1979 computer research help needed please. Message-ID: <200307271944.PAA16173@www22.ureach.com> Hi Folks, I'm new to this group and didn't know I wasn't allow to post jpeg pictures. But anyway I have some new questions on TI computers. One what TI computer came out about 1975-1979 That had a large removable hard drive and was better than the DEC PDP's ? Which had very limted RAM and used slow magnetic tapes for programs and data storage ? Second what would be in this binder as the outside reads: TI-MIX Microcomputer Information Exchange ? The computer came out before 1979. My father wrote an OS for it. The last time he used it was 1979. Any help would be great. Thanks ________________________________________________ Get your own "800" number Voicemail, fax, email, and a lot more http://www.ureach.com/reg/tag From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 27 19:34:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Jul 2003, Patrick Rigney wrote: > > In Apple ProDOS, the file entry in the directory points to either the > > first block of the file (if the file is only one block in length) or a > > block that contains a list of all the blocks the file uses. This is still > > simple but elegant. > > Is the file size limited to the number of blocks that can be represented in > a single map block, or does it allow multiple map blocks? If the latter, > how does it chain them? --Patrick It allows multiple map blocks. The directory entry indicates what type of file it is. The smallest is a seed (points to the file's single block), then a sapling (points to the file's block allocation map), then a tree (points to the file's block allocation map block list). This is from memory so the seed/sapling/tree designation may be wrong, but that's the gist of it. I think this scheme allows for a file of up to 32MB in size. BTW: a block in ProDOS is 512 bytes (2 256-byte sectors). For a tree, the directory entry points to a block which is a list of all the allocation map blocks for that file. So the allocation map block list can point to up to 256 allocation map blocks, and each allocation map block can point to up to 256 blocks (2 bytes are used to store a block number). It's fairly sophisticated for an 8-bit operating system. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 27 19:35:06 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <3F245A2E.1040801@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Jul 2003, Bob Shannon wrote: > >This is your trade off. You can spend the programming time doing a more > >proper filesystem ;) > > > It all comes down to available memory. > > We are talking about CPU's with a logical address space of 32K words. > Much of that is already used, so I need > something very small. Apple ][ DOS 3.3, a simple but complete disk operating system, is implemented inside of 10,752 bytes. > And how 'correct' would it be to have a modern file system running on an > HP2116 anyway? It may be far from > practical. It depends on how useful/usable you want it to be. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Jul 27 20:01:13 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? References: Message-ID: <3F246676.6090405@jetnet.ab.ca> Lets not forget the old machines too often had fixed data areas on media used as scratch storage. A single page of memory often was the only room a OS could use for all device handeling and bootstrapping. You often had to have a system that could load a paper tape image in core memory all ready and then work from disk or mag tape. A fixed file size is not a problem since only with text editing do you need a variable file size. From spc at conman.org Sun Jul 27 20:01:48 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Jul 27, 2003 03:58:04 PM Message-ID: <20030728001346.D10D4140DCC8@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Vintage Computer Festival once stated: > > On Sun, 27 Jul 2003, Megan wrote: > > > >There also needs to be a map somewhere specifying which > > >sectors are free/used. > > > > That can be a lot of overhead, and can take up a fair amount of disk space > > depending on how it is implemented, and with each directory entry having > > start and size, it isn't needed. > > Using one bit per byte (or word) you can store the status of up to 2048 > allocation units (sectors, blocks, whatever) in 256 (8-bit) bytes of disk > space. So assuming your allocation units--let's call them "sectors"--are > 256 bytes, a map taking up one sector can give the free/used status for a > 2048 sector disk, or a disk with a half-megabyte capacity. Each > additional sector assigned for use in your map gives you another > half-megabyte of allocation information. Not bad. But at some of the sizes being used, the use of a bit map to track free space becomes problematic---with an 8G drive, that's 2M of space just for the bitmap, which takes time to search. And after reading http://www.acmqueue.org/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=43 which discusses the problems of ever increasing disk space, I came up with this rather "wasteful" idea which is easy, moderate in speed, and while it wastes disk space, it does so in a rather unusual fasion. At the location where you can freely use space (past the fixed areas, such as boot records, etc) you set aside a few tracks worth of space for the "master directory." It contains a pointer to the beginning of free space on the disk (block number, cylinder, head, sector, however you store geometry data) and then (taking an idea from Unix) a name and pointer to where the "file" starts on the disk (realizing that a directory is just a specially formatted file), a layout with something like: disklocation end_of_fixed_portion; disklocation free_space; /* repeats to fill rest of "master directory" */ char[FILENAME] filename; disklocation fileloc; char[FILENAME] filename...; disklocation fileloc...; Then, for each file, the first sector contains information about the file, including the name (again, for reasons that will become apparent), size of the file, timestamp, version (more on this in a bit) and anything else you want to fill a sector, then sequentially, the rest of the file. When you open a file for modification (or appending data) then a "new" file is created, with the same name, starting with the next available free space on the disk and any data is copied. The entry in the "master directory" is updated to the new version (along with the free_space being recalculated as needed). Files are always created at the end of the used space and slowly (depending upon how much data you are saving) eats into free space. You also get versioning (hmmm, might want to save a pointer to previous versions in the file metadata area) and if you construct the file metadata correct, you can even detect where files start and end if the "master directory" is blown away. And every file is contiguous so you avoid having to seek around on the disk. To delete a file, just remove the entry from the "master directory"---you don't have to bother with actually removing the data from the disk until you absolutely need it, and if you are using an 8G drive for an older system, it will take quite a bit (if ever) to fill it. Now, you do loose the ability to have multiple files open for writing (appending) but is that really a consideration? But I'm not saying you *have* to do it this way, but given the size of modern disks nowadays (and it seems that modern disks can be used with older hardware) it might be worth it to use a scheme like this. -spc (Just tossing out ideas ... ) From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jul 27 20:06:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Storing floppy dirves In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030727175510.Q80312@newshell.lmi.net> > For long term storage, is it better to store a 5.25 inch floppy drive with a > disk in the drive and the lever closed, or is it better to leave the door > open and no disk in the drive? Either way, the drive will be in a sealed > plastic bag to keep the dust out but I was just curious about whether or not > to keep a diskette locked in the drive during storage. I've heard arguments > for both. heads LOADED empty or with just the mylar in between them creates way too much risk of physical damage to the heads. Whoever told you THAT doesn't know 5.25" drives. Does EVERYBODY discard the shipping cardboard that 5.25" drives came with? NOBODY ever expects to have to ship or store a drive ever again? Your choice is NOT between a open (heads unloaded) v a disk loaded. Your choice is between a open (heads unloaded) v a proper shipping cardboard (or disk rotated 90 degrees to use the JACKET of the disk as padding). From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 27 20:32:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <20030728001346.D10D4140DCC8@swift.conman.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Jul 2003, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > > Using one bit per byte (or word) you can store the status of up to 2048 > > allocation units (sectors, blocks, whatever) in 256 (8-bit) bytes of disk > > space. So assuming your allocation units--let's call them "sectors"--are > > 256 bytes, a map taking up one sector can give the free/used status for a > > 2048 sector disk, or a disk with a half-megabyte capacity. Each > > additional sector assigned for use in your map gives you another > > half-megabyte of allocation information. Not bad. > > But at some of the sizes being used, the use of a bit map to track > free space becomes problematic---with an 8G drive, that's 2M of space just > for the bitmap, which takes time to search. And after reading That's because it is using 512 byte allocation units. To reduce the allocation block map size you'd need to up the allocation unit size. At any rate, with an 8GB drive as an example, the size of the map relative to the total disk space is negligible (a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent), and searching the allocation map can be made more efficient using hash algorithms or simple pointers to the beginning of the next available string of allocation blocks. I still think it's a better and more efficient way to go, and not much more work to code than the simpler schemes being suggested. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dwallace at m-net.arbornet.org Sun Jul 27 21:34:00 2003 From: dwallace at m-net.arbornet.org (Don Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Best way to Sell Old, Used Software and SW/dev Books w/little Collectible Value? Message-ID: Hi, My first time posting here - apologies if I should have RTFM first on this topic. I have a mountain of dated (late 80s - early 90s vintage) and probably non-collectible software packages and books that it seems to me would be a waste to consign to a landfill. I mean stuff like: Clipper 5.2 Corel Draw (Win 3.1) Version 4 Quattro Pro for DOS Ami Pro for Win 3.1 Star Trek Screen Saver (ca. 1992) Borland C++ 3.1 for Windows and DOS with Application Frameworks Books such as "advanced c-struct programming" (OOP on C), Peter Norton's "Inside OS/2", Alan Holub's "Compiler Design in C", several different DOS and BIOS interrupt references, a book on device drivers for DOS (yechhh!)... When I think of all the money I squandered on this cr$p in past years so I could stay in place with idiot employers and not even advance, I want to go GAAAAH! I *also* want, if possible, to make a buck or two off the lot or individually, and remove it from my view and from my basement. The Rubbermaid containers it's in are probably worth much more than this stuff is worth. Maybe. I doubt that most of this stuff is even worth paying the advertising fee on Ebay, and there's a LOT of it. Maybe the thing to do would be to advertise a few of the "better" pieces (like the Holub book) on Ebay, and in that ad on Ebay link to "other articles for sale". Just to generate traffic from the Ebay placement. Ideas? Know of any brokers that would take the entire lot? Or, know of any Luddite communities that eschew sinful protected mode OSs in favor of simple, uncomplicated DOS and 286 level software that penalizes the sinful user with random lockups? :-) OK, that was reaching... Thanks! From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Jul 27 21:53:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Best way to Sell Old, Used Software and SW/dev Books w/little Collectible Value? References: Message-ID: <008801c354b2$9e59c120$347ca418@neo.rr.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Wallace" To: Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 10:29 PM Subject: Best way to Sell Old, Used Software and SW/dev Books w/little Collectible Value? > Hi, > > My first time posting here - apologies if I should have RTFM first on > this topic. > > I have a mountain of dated (late 80s - early 90s vintage) and probably > non-collectible software packages and books that it seems to me would > be a waste to consign to a landfill. > > I mean stuff like: > > Clipper 5.2 > Corel Draw (Win 3.1) Version 4 > Quattro Pro for DOS > Ami Pro for Win 3.1 > Star Trek Screen Saver (ca. 1992) > Borland C++ 3.1 for Windows and DOS with Application Frameworks > > Books such as "advanced c-struct programming" (OOP on C), Peter > Norton's "Inside OS/2", Alan Holub's "Compiler Design in C", several > different DOS and BIOS interrupt references, a book on device drivers > for DOS (yechhh!)... > > When I think of all the money I squandered on this cr$p in past years > so I could stay in place with idiot employers and not even advance, I > want to go GAAAAH! > > I *also* want, if possible, to make a buck or two off the lot or > individually, and remove it from my view and from my basement. The > Rubbermaid containers it's in are probably worth much more than this > stuff is worth. Maybe. > > I doubt that most of this stuff is even worth paying the advertising > fee on Ebay, and there's a LOT of it. > > Maybe the thing to do would be to advertise a few of the "better" > pieces (like the Holub book) on Ebay, and in that ad on Ebay link to > "other articles for sale". Just to generate traffic from the Ebay > placement. > > Ideas? Know of any brokers that would take the entire lot? > > Or, know of any Luddite communities that eschew sinful protected mode > OSs in favor of simple, uncomplicated DOS and 286 level software that > penalizes the sinful user with random lockups? :-) OK, that was > reaching... > > Thanks! From patrick at evocative.com Sun Jul 27 22:59:01 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > For a tree, the directory entry points to a block which is a list of all > the allocation map blocks for that file. So the allocation map block list > can point to up to 256 allocation map blocks, and each allocation map > block can point to up to 256 blocks (2 bytes are used to store a block > number). > > It's fairly sophisticated for an 8-bit operating system. The thing I really don't like about this approach is that any file that uses only a few allocation units still wastes an entire sector with a mostly empty map block. If you look around on these disks, I'll bet you find a lot of mostly-empty map blocks, which is just wasted space. > > > Using one bit per byte (or word) you can store the status of > up to 2048 > > > allocation units (sectors, blocks, whatever) in 256 (8-bit) > bytes of disk > > > space. So assuming your allocation units--let's call them [snip] > > I still think it's a better and more efficient way to go, and not much > more work to code than the simpler schemes being suggested. I agree that it's simple, but not that it's efficient. For small micros, finding the first "0" bit in an arbitrarily long bit string takes a few cycles. Brute force approaches will bleed time badly as the filesystem fills. And if you free a sparse or fragmented file in a large filesystem, it can require resetting a lot of sparse bits in that map, which can in turn require a lot of reads and writes to the map blocks. If the file system is of any size (in terms of number of allocation units), I think it's more efficient to keep the maps on some kind of linked list. My bias would be to maintain a list very similar to the DOS FAT, with a twist. File directory entries point to the first block a file owns, and thereafter, the allocation list points the way to the next block, or flags that there is no next block (end of file). This is like MS/PC-DOS. But unlike DOS, the free blocks would be chained together in the allocation list as well. In this way, you can quickly find a free block just by popping the head block off the allocation list. You can also quickly delete a really large file with a long chain of allocation units simply by setting its last allocation block pointer to the head of the free list, then resetting the head of the free list to the first block of the file being deleted--voila. Patrick From jcwren at jcwren.com Sun Jul 27 23:10:01 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200307280006.29709.jcwren@jcwren.com> There was always the OS-9 approach (IIRC), that used the last two bytes of each sector to link to the next sector. Worked well enough, although not dealing with even powers of two can be a pain. --John On Sunday 27 July 2003 23:55 pm, Patrick Rigney wrote: > > For a tree, the directory entry points to a block which is a list of all > > the allocation map blocks for that file. So the allocation map block > > list can point to up to 256 allocation map blocks, and each allocation > > map block can point to up to 256 blocks (2 bytes are used to store a > > block number). > > > > It's fairly sophisticated for an 8-bit operating system. > > The thing I really don't like about this approach is that any file that > uses only a few allocation units still wastes an entire sector with a > mostly empty map block. If you look around on these disks, I'll bet you > find a lot of mostly-empty map blocks, which is just wasted space. > > > > > Using one bit per byte (or word) you can store the status of > > > > up to 2048 > > > > > > allocation units (sectors, blocks, whatever) in 256 (8-bit) > > > > bytes of disk > > > > > > space. So assuming your allocation units--let's call them > > [snip] > > > I still think it's a better and more efficient way to go, and not much > > more work to code than the simpler schemes being suggested. > > I agree that it's simple, but not that it's efficient. For small micros, > finding the first "0" bit in an arbitrarily long bit string takes a few > cycles. Brute force approaches will bleed time badly as the filesystem > fills. And if you free a sparse or fragmented file in a large filesystem, > it can require resetting a lot of sparse bits in that map, which can in > turn require a lot of reads and writes to the map blocks. > > If the file system is of any size (in terms of number of allocation units), > I think it's more efficient to keep the maps on some kind of linked list. > My bias would be to maintain a list very similar to the DOS FAT, with a > twist. File directory entries point to the first block a file owns, and > thereafter, the allocation list points the way to the next block, or flags > that there is no next block (end of file). This is like MS/PC-DOS. But > unlike DOS, the free blocks would be chained together in the allocation > list as well. In this way, you can quickly find a free block just by > popping the head block off the allocation list. You can also quickly > delete a really large file with a long chain of allocation units simply by > setting its last allocation block pointer to the head of the free list, > then resetting the head of the free list to the first block of the file > being deleted--voila. > > Patrick From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Jul 27 23:30:01 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? References: <200307280006.29709.jcwren@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <3F24A520.2010003@jetnet.ab.ca> J.C. Wren wrote: > There was always the OS-9 approach (IIRC), that used the last two bytes of > each sector to link to the next sector. Worked well enough, although not > dealing with even powers of two can be a pain. I thought OS/9 used a unix like file system. Flex ( http://www.evenson-consulting.com/flexusergroup/default.htm ) does use the linked sector format. However remember 32k bytes for programs was a large amount of memory back around 1975 and some space still left for the OS for the people that never knew small systems. CAN you say 8k basic :) From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 27 23:36:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Jul 2003, Patrick Rigney wrote: > The thing I really don't like about this approach is that any file that uses > only a few allocation units still wastes an entire sector with a mostly > empty map block. If you look around on these disks, I'll bet you find a lot > of mostly-empty map blocks, which is just wasted space. I agree, but then the idea, I imagine, was that ever larger storage mediums would render this concern obsolete. The linked-list approach in DOS 3.3 was much more efficient. > > I still think it's a better and more efficient way to go, and not much > > more work to code than the simpler schemes being suggested. > > I agree that it's simple, but not that it's efficient. For small micros, > finding the first "0" bit in an arbitrarily long bit string takes a few > cycles. You would just look for the first byte that is not a 255. > Brute force approaches will bleed time badly as the filesystem > fills. And if you free a sparse or fragmented file in a large filesystem, > it can require resetting a lot of sparse bits in that map, which can in turn > require a lot of reads and writes to the map blocks. I don't share the concern. With efficient coding, the overhead is negligible. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jcwren at jcwren.com Sun Jul 27 23:50:00 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <3F24A520.2010003@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <200307280006.29709.jcwren@jcwren.com> <3F24A520.2010003@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <200307280046.37774.jcwren@jcwren.com> Yea, I think you're right. I knew it was one of the 6800 or 6809 OS's, but it's been so long, I couldn't remember for sure. Either one was still a pretty decent OS, in my book. Prolly better than CP/M 2.2. --John On Monday 28 July 2003 00:22 am, ben franchuk wrote: > J.C. Wren wrote: > > There was always the OS-9 approach (IIRC), that used the last two bytes > > of each sector to link to the next sector. Worked well enough, although > > not dealing with even powers of two can be a pain. > > I thought OS/9 used a unix like file system. Flex > ( http://www.evenson-consulting.com/flexusergroup/default.htm ) > does use the linked sector format. However remember 32k bytes > for programs was a large amount of memory back around 1975 and some > space still left for the OS for the people that never knew small > systems. CAN you say 8k basic :) From mbg at TheWorld.com Mon Jul 28 00:25:01 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? Message-ID: <200307280522.BAA10230324@shell.TheWorld.com> >It's a LOT easier (and much more efficient) to just implement an >allocation map. But not at all needed if you use a flat, contiguous file system. And remember, the question was asking for the simplest file system... and a block/sector/whatever allocation map and the associated code to handle it is not as simple as one can get. Not to mention the fact that you need tables of pointers to the blocks so that a file can be reassembled, or read in order... and the risks to the whole file if the pointers are lost... I can't tell you how many RT disks I've been able to recover from truly bad blocks in the directory by virtue of the fact that the RT directory structure is so simple... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | Member of Technical Staff | megan at savaje.com | | SavaJe Technologies, Inc. | (s/ at /@/) | | 100 Apollo Drive | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Chelmsford, MA 01824 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (978) 256 6521 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From frustum at pacbell.net Mon Jul 28 00:31:01 2003 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <3F241087.9010906@tiac.net> References: <20030727021358.97760.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> <3F240856.1080105@tiac.net> <3F240C2B.2040408@pacbell.net> <3F241087.9010906@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3F24B438.20900@pacbell.net> Bob Shannon wrote: > This sounds just about right, vintage-wise! > > Ok, so once you have a hole, do you only recover that disk space by > SQUEEZEing the disk? yes, although the OS supplied command that does this can't do an in-place squeeze. the command is MOVE, and it copies the first disk to the second disk while removing any SCRATCH'd files along the way. I'm sure people did write their own in-place squeeze programs, but it would be inherently hazardous. Because the file system doesn't have a linked list or indirection table of some kind, you can't incrementally move around pieces of the file safely. You have to atomically move the entire program and update the catalog. So the build in command, MOVE, required the squeeze to happen during a whole-disk copy so that the integrity of the source disk was never compromised. > I think RT-11 works this way, at least I recall the SQUEEZE command > making the disk free space > larger. > > Is a FAT needed for this, or is there a simple way to calculate this on > the fly? > > Jim Battle wrote: > >>> >> >> The wang 2200 that I have (pre 1975) has two modes: >> >> 1) direct access. the program and read or write any absolutely >> address sector, which is 256 bytes. this isn't what you asked for. >> >> 2) random access tape. the first N sectors of the disk contain a >> catalog of files on the disk. an entry consists of 8 bytes of >> filename, two bytes of starting sector, two bytes of final sector (or >> is it size?) and an attribute byte (program/data). it is quite >> primitive. if you want to create a data file, you must first reserve >> all the space you will ever need for it. unused parts of the file >> still take up space. if the file does grow bigger than you had already >> preallocated, you must basically shuffle files around on disk to make >> room. when you delete a file, it just makes a hole in your map. all >> sectors are allocated linearly. >> >> it is very simple, but not too convenient. From jpdavis at gorge.net Mon Jul 28 01:08:00 2003 From: jpdavis at gorge.net (Jdavis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <200307280006.29709.jcwren@jcwren.com> References: <200307280006.29709.jcwren@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <3F24BC0A.9030103@gorge.net> J.C. Wren wrote: > There was always the OS-9 approach (IIRC), that used the last two bytes of >each sector to link to the next sector. Worked well enough, although not >dealing with even powers of two can be a pain. > > --John > >On Sunday 27 July 2003 23:55 pm, Patrick Rigney wrote: > > >> snip >> >> >> >> >>>I still think it's a better and more efficient way to go, and not much >>>more work to code than the simpler schemes being suggested. >>> >>> >>I agree that it's simple, but not that it's efficient. For small micros, >>finding the first "0" bit in an arbitrarily long bit string takes a few >>cycles. Brute force approaches will bleed time badly as the filesystem >>fills. And if you free a sparse or fragmented file in a large filesystem, >>it can require resetting a lot of sparse bits in that map, which can in >>turn require a lot of reads and writes to the map blocks. >> >>Snip >> Your lack of understanding dates you, kid-o, say hi to MSVC++ and VBASIC Jim Davis From frustum at pacbell.net Mon Jul 28 01:23:01 2003 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <3F24BC0A.9030103@gorge.net> References: <200307280006.29709.jcwren@jcwren.com> <3F24BC0A.9030103@gorge.net> Message-ID: <3F24C090.3060406@pacbell.net> Jdavis wrote: > J.C. Wren wrote: > >> There was always the OS-9 approach (IIRC), that used the last two >> bytes of each sector to link to the next sector. Worked well enough, >> although not dealing with even powers of two can be a pain. ... > Your lack of understanding dates you, kid-o, say hi to MSVC++ and VBASIC > Jim Davis > why the snide remark? other than asserting smirking superiority, what information were you intending to supply to the roughly 650 members of this mailing list? no thanks. From vance at neurotica.com Mon Jul 28 03:16:01 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <3F24BC0A.9030103@gorge.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Jul 2003, Jdavis wrote: > Your lack of understanding dates you, kid-o, say hi to MSVC++ and VBASIC Don't be an asshole. Peace... Sridhar From cvisors at carnagevisors.net Mon Jul 28 05:39:01 2003 From: cvisors at carnagevisors.net (Benjamin Gardiner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Decdocs.org Site and contents In-Reply-To: <3F241897.5040701@frixxon.co.uk> References: <22e4a1fb0e.1fb0e22e4a@ono.com> <3F241897.5040701@frixxon.co.uk> Message-ID: <3F24FC67.5030109@carnagevisors.net> Paul Williams wrote: > Sergio Pedraja Cabo wrote: > >> Hi. What happened finally with this website and its contents ? >> I offered to support it, but somebody in the USA had interest too >> and I leave to pass the matter. > > > Most of the documents on decdocs.org came from the DEC MDS CDs of > December 1994, donated by Tim Shoppa. At least two sites are now > mirroring these: > > - http://www.purdueriots.com/ (Patrick Finnegan) > - http://cmcnabb.cc.vt.edu/dec94mds/ (Christopher McNabb) > > (I see that Benjamin Gardiner's mirror has now disappeared, for > bandwidth reasons.) > Actually its still there, but I moved it a little :) I was having issues with bandwidth, but if you do want them you can get them at http://www.carnagevisors.net/asd000_classic_comp/dec94mds/ Benjamin -- one you lock the target two you bait the line three you slowly spread the net and four you catch the man Front 242 Headhunter From jpdavis at gorge.net Mon Jul 28 07:07:00 2003 From: jpdavis at gorge.net (Jdavis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <3F24B438.20900@pacbell.net> References: <20030727021358.97760.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> <3F240856.1080105@tiac.net> <3F240C2B.2040408@pacbell.net> <3F241087.9010906@tiac.net> <3F24B438.20900@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <3F251023.2050304@gorge.net> Trying to insult as many as possible before I commit suicide. Jim D. From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Jul 28 09:11:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: More Acorn finds + Numonics graphics tablet Message-ID: My AutoCAD 2.18 Installation manual (March 1986) gives serial cabling for Numonics 2200 Series plotters to PC as: Tablet End Computer End 3 -------------------- 3 4 --| 5 --| 7 -------------------- 7 6 --| 20 --| To use with AutoCAD, set the tablet for binary data transmition at 9600 baud, 8 bits, one stop bit. Switch settings are: Switch Open(Down) Closed(Up) Doesn't matter A 2,5,7 1 3,4,6,8 B 5 3 1,2,4,6,7,8 C 1 2,3,4 Lastly, the AutoCAD notes say that the tablet can be configured to emulate other brands by changing the PROM chips. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Jules Richardson [mailto:julesrichardsonuk@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 5:04 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: More Acorn finds + Numonics graphics tablet Numonics 2206 graphics tablet still in its box *Any* info on the Numonics tablet would be great. It appears to be complete (minus manuals - grr!) and supposedly works, but I don't even know what it plugs into and I don't have any driver software for it. (I'm not even sure how old it is :) From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jul 28 09:13:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <200307280522.BAA10230324@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jul 2003, Megan wrote: > >It's a LOT easier (and much more efficient) to just implement an > >allocation map. > > But not at all needed if you use a flat, contiguous file system. Sure it's needed, because of the issues that you folks have been discussing with regards to such a beast. It's clumsy and cumbersome to deal with when you delete files or need to increase the size of a file. > And remember, the question was asking for the simplest file > system... and a block/sector/whatever allocation map and the > associated code to handle it is not as simple as one can get. The criteria is "simplest usable" and "practical" filesystem. I think an allocation map is more usable and practical, but that's just my preference having been initially exposed to filesystems with these features. > Not to mention the fact that you need tables of pointers to the > blocks so that a file can be reassembled, or read in order... and > the risks to the whole file if the pointers are lost... That's what FAT and ProDOS does, but I'm not suggesting that. The allocation map I'm talking about keeps track of the free/used sectors on the disk so you don't have to set aside large unused swaths of disk space for each file. > I can't tell you how many RT disks I've been able to recover > from truly bad blocks in the directory by virtue of the fact > that the RT directory structure is so simple... The approach I initially suggested (linked-list sectors) is very robust as well. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Jul 28 09:42:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Storing floppy dirves Message-ID: For long-term storage, I would worry that the coating on the cardboard might stick to the drive's head, especially if it was humid when the drive is bagged. (I know a number of museum conservators who do not use plastic bags for protecting artifacts because of problems with static and humidity. They only use closed plastic bags when there is a question of insect infestation.) It would probably be a good idea to put a _fresh_ packet of silica gel desicant in the plastic bag with the drive. And, yes, I still have some of the shipping cardboards for my old drives :) . -----Original Message----- From: Fred Cisin [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 8:01 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Storing floppy dirves Does EVERYBODY discard the shipping cardboard that 5.25" drives came with? NOBODY ever expects to have to ship or store a drive ever again? Your choice is NOT between a open (heads unloaded) v a disk loaded. Your choice is between a open (heads unloaded) v a proper shipping cardboard (or disk rotated 90 degrees to use the JACKET of the disk as padding). From lgomez at cdromsa.es Mon Jul 28 09:43:02 2003 From: lgomez at cdromsa.es (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Luis_G=F3mez?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Tatung Einstein 256 In-Reply-To: <19fa0g-0xE76m0@fwd06.sul.t-online.com> Message-ID: <001701c35515$e99731a0$9600a8c0@Luis> I have a Einstein 256 without monitor. In this computer PSU is integrated into the monitor. Somebody know pinout connections for power and video? Regards. From rogersda at cox.net Mon Jul 28 11:16:00 2003 From: rogersda at cox.net (rogersda@cox.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: RL02 Assistance... Message-ID: <20030728161228.KPEK10286.fed1mtao03.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Curt, Perhaps you've already received the assistance you need (I've been gone all weekend), but - depending on the version of VMS you have (I don't remember which version dropped "compatibility mode") - VMS doesn't much like to mount non-RMS file systems, except as "foreign", which you said you tried. Is there data on that disk you need? If not, why not use the command $ init DLA3: RLDATA If it fails that, then I'd suspect a driver mis-match. Dale > > From: cvendel@att.net > Date: 2003/07/26 Sat PM 09:21:33 EDT > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: RL02 Assistance... > > Hi, > > I've got an RL02 connected to my Vax 4000-200 through an RLV12 QBus > controller. > > The Drive is spinning up fine and the Ready light is Lit, the Fault light > goes off once power to the Vax is started and doing a SHO DEV at the Chevron > prompt and within OpenVMS both show: > > RLV12 Controller 0 (774400) > -DLA3 (RL02) > > Which looks great from my perspective, the drive ID plug is a 3, so DLA3 makes > total sense. In the SHO DEV within OpenVMS does display the drive as being > online. > > So my problem is with MOUNT, everytime I go to mount the drive the system > simply hangs and never seems to complete the mount, I end up having to CTRL- > BREAK to Halt the system back to Chevron and b up again from my DSSI DIA0: > > Anyone have any idea's what I'm doing wrong or what may be wrong??? > > I've tried with a /FOREIGN too since this platters are from an 11/730 and many > of the handwritten labels on the disk paks say RSTS on them, so I wasn't sure > if it was a format issue or something, I could really use some help/advice from > anyone with a lot of experience with the quirks of the RL's. > > Thanks much, > > PS: If anyone has an RK05 or RK07 DECPack for sale and possibly an RKV11D Qbus > controller I am in the market for one. > > Curt From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Jul 28 11:23:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: FF: Compaq SLT/286 and Acorn manuals (Cambridge, UK) Message-ID: <20030728161954.96242.qmail@web21110.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, 1) I just found the Operations Guide and MSDOS 3 manual for a Compaq SLT/286 laptop up in the loft. The machine itself is No Longer With Us, so if anyone wants them they're welcome to them. The programs floppy is still there, and I believe I saw the diagnostics floppy floating around recently. 2) I have a few spare bits of Acorn documentation which could do with a home: Four copies of the Acornsoft View guide Two copies of the Econet level 2/3 fileserver user guide Acorn 3020 welcome guide Acorn 3020 welcome / user / apps guides (shrinkwrapped) Archimedes Smalltalk-80 manual Collect from just north of Cambridge (UK :) cheers Jules ===== Backward conditioning: putting saliva in a dog's mouth in an attempt to make a bell ring. ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jul 28 12:00:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:04 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? Message-ID: <200307281656.JAA03049@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "ben franchuk" > >Bob Shannon wrote: >> What is the simplest usable disk file system to implement? >> >> More specifically, if your going to write a disk file system from >> scratch, what would be the easiest way to implement >> some basic file system functionality? >> >> How did some of the very early DOS systems allocate disk space in the >> days before FAT tables, etc? >> >> Just how simply can this be done? >> >> > >Use the whole disk ... block by block ... FIG FORTH worked this way. > Hi On one of my Forth setups, I wrote a word that would take the first number on a line of text in some block and then use that number as the next block to bring up. This way I'll edit a number of blocks as an index of the rest of the text/code on the disk. I could then pass this number on to words like LOAD, INDEX or EDIT. This made a simple directory setup with a method for accessing portions of the disk as different types of data. I'd place this word as a single key stroke in my editor so that I could use this word or just maintain the directory. I made it a rule to put both the starting block and the last block in the directory entry. This directory would look something like: 10 25 EDIT comments 26 29 ASSEMBLER 2A 2B PROGRAMMER Although, it kept the block numbers in ASCII, the time to convert to machine numbers is a small portion of the overall access time. Keeping the numbers as HEX values means that the conversion routines can be optimized for simpler processor and still be in a human readable format. I'd intended to add words that would maintain disk space but so far, I've just maintained things by hand. Still, one can see that with just a few extra words added, one can do a reasonable OS without the need for a true FAT. Adding words like a DELETE and a GARBAGE collector would make a reasonable disk OS. I did add a search words to my directory setup. This way I could find the EDITor fast if it was on some other block of my simple directory. The advantage of just starting with simple blocks is that one can expand it over time to even deal with sequential files ( what most consider random length streamy file ). At first, one can keep even the editor simple by having fixed length text lines, as a Forth block system does. A block is 1024 bytes. When displayed as text, it is a fixed chunk of 16 lines of 64 characters. Dwight From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jul 28 12:16:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:05 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? Message-ID: <200307281712.KAA03058@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Bob Shannon" > >ben franchuk wrote: > >> >> Use the whole disk ... block by block ... FIG FORTH worked this way. >> >Very tempting, as I'm adding a file system to a threaded interpreter >(not FORTH). > >But a basic block system is just too primative. Named files at a minimum. > Hi Bob As I've shown in my previous mail, you can use it as a starting place. I also have some code that I wrote to maintain files on a DOS disk. It is bassed on the original block system. Although, I didn't expand it to include sub-directories, this could be added with a small additional amount of code. The main thing is to get something working and keep things open enough that you can expand later. I wrote the DOS stuff so that I could more easily transfer things between my PC and my block system. Start simple and work towards a later complete system. Dwight From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jul 28 12:21:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:05 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? Message-ID: <200307281717.KAA03062@clulw009.amd.com> >From: spc@conman.org > >It was thus said that the Great Bob Shannon once stated: >> ---snip--- > > It also depends upon the size of the disk you are going to use---up to a >few meg in size the MS-DOS FAT system (12 or 16 bit variants) will probably >be the best bet---well documented with the ability for interoperability >between most systems. > > -spc (my two bits worth ... ) > Hi Bob If you absolutely must start with a FAT system I think that you should use a DOS like FAT. This makes things easy to move from machine to machine. The 12 bit FAT is a little clumsy so I'd suggest the 16 bit as the easier to deal with. Dwight From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Jul 28 12:22:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:05 2005 Subject: More Acorn finds + Numonics graphics tablet Message-ID: <20030728171836.41842.qmail@web21103.mail.yahoo.com> > To use with AutoCAD, set the tablet for binary data transmition at > 9600 baud, 8 bits, one stop bit. Switch settings are: ok, that's useful, thanks. I have a serial cable that came with the machine so I hooked it up to a DOS box and just used a terminal emulator to check I was getting data from it. It looks healthy as far as I can tell, although given the amount of raw data coming back the protocol looks quite complex. > Lastly, the AutoCAD notes say that the tablet can be configured to > emulate other brands by changing the PROM chips. Interesting. I'll have to take it apart now and see what (if anything) it says in the ROMs that are in there :-) I found some vague reference to Numonics tablets working under Linux with a Summagraphics driver if the ID string check is removed, but unfortunately it doesn't actually say *which* Numonics tablets that applies to. I'll have to give it a go sometime. I found a driver disk for Apple systems, but my Mac skills aren't sufficient to pull apart an Apple driver and engineer an equivalent one on a PC! (which is what I'd like to use this on) cheers Jules ===== Backward conditioning: putting saliva in a dog's mouth in an attempt to make a bell ring. ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From RCini at congressfinancial.com Mon Jul 28 12:22:19 2003 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:05 2005 Subject: ROM on Altair front panel board Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5127B03@MAIL10> Hello, all: I was just looking at the schematics for the display/control board for the Altair 8800 and saw that there is a 1702 EPROM on the board. The lowest 4-bits of the EPROM's address bus are connected to a 7493 binary counter and the highest 4-bits are connected directly to the address bus. What's the purpose of the EPROM? Did the front panel have some intelligence? Rich From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jul 28 12:52:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:05 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <200307281717.KAA03062@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200307281717.KAA03062@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20030728104007.L85794@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 28 Jul 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > If you absolutely must start with a FAT system I think that > you should use a DOS like FAT. This makes things easy to > move from machine to machine. The 12 bit FAT is a little clumsy > so I'd suggest the 16 bit as the easier to deal with. FAT16 is limited to 4G But DOS and Win9x limits it to 2147483647 (NTx permits 4G). The 2G limitation is due to the use of signed long ints in places that should have an UNSIGNED long int. Because of that, it can have files with a NEGATIVE size! One of my hard drives was getting crowded; I was down to less than a meg of free space. So, I stepped on the directory of a floppy, and created a file that reported a size of -2147483648. Surely, if I copied a file with that much negative size to the drive, it would give me more free space! But it was unable to do the COPY. From patrick at evocative.com Mon Jul 28 13:05:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:05 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <3F24BC0A.9030103@gorge.net> Message-ID: > Your lack of understanding dates you, kid-o, say hi to MSVC++ and VBASIC > Jim Davis Jim, I hope you weren't addressing me. I've got 25 years behind me as a professional software engineer, more as a hobbyist, with a lot yet to learn, eagerly, which is why I'm here. I've seen junior guys fresh out of school rip an established design to pieces, and the most senior engineering fellow send an entire project permanently down a hole by missing simple details. The two biggest lessons I've learned are (1) keep an open mind, because the moment you think you know everything is the moment someone comes along and hands you your ar**, and (2) everyone, regardless of experience, has something to offer and you can learn from it. Hopefully that comment wasn't the best you've got. Regardless of who you were addressing, if you DO have something material to offer, please explain it, because I'd really like to know and hear your ideas. But if you're just going to sit out there and take pot-shots, I for one won't give you credit for knowing jack. --Patrick From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Jul 28 13:07:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:05 2005 Subject: Looking for Sharp pens In-Reply-To: <002801c353e9$6e95c3e0$b15a3b18@homebrew> References: <002801c353e9$6e95c3e0$b15a3b18@homebrew> Message-ID: <068e34194c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <002801c353e9$6e95c3e0$b15a3b18@homebrew> "Tom Lake" wrote: > Do you have any Sharp EA-850B (black) or EA-850C (color) pens available for > sale? If so how many do you have and how much would you like for some? I'm also after some of these pens - they're basically tiny ballpoints that were used in the Sharp pen plotters, e.g. the CE-515P. Thanks. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | video mods, 10BaseT (i3 EtherLAN600), http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 8xCD, framegrabber, teletext Diagonally parked in a parallel universe. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Jul 28 13:08:49 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:05 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? References: <200307281717.KAA03062@clulw009.amd.com> <20030728104007.L85794@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <3F256458.3000102@jetnet.ab.ca> Fred Cisin wrote: > On Mon, 28 Jul 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >> If you absolutely must start with a FAT system I think that >>you should use a DOS like FAT. This makes things easy to >>move from machine to machine. The 12 bit FAT is a little clumsy >>so I'd suggest the 16 bit as the easier to deal with. > > > FAT16 is limited to 4G > > But DOS and Win9x limits it to 2147483647 (NTx permits 4G). > The 2G limitation is due to the use of signed long ints in places that > should have an UNSIGNED long int. Because of that, it can have files with > a NEGATIVE size! Now is a good time to back up your system. AND MAKE SURE THE BACK UP WORKS! From patrick at evocative.com Mon Jul 28 13:11:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:05 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <200307281717.KAA03062@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: > Hi Bob > If you absolutely must start with a FAT system I think that > you should use a DOS like FAT. This makes things easy to > move from machine to machine. The 12 bit FAT is a little clumsy > so I'd suggest the 16 bit as the easier to deal with. > Dwight I'll second that! Although it's just a little shifting, I'm a lazy programmer type and debugging allocation problems in your implementation will be easier when everything is aligned on byte/word boundaries. :-) Patrick From paul at frixxon.co.uk Mon Jul 28 13:13:01 2003 From: paul at frixxon.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:05 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <20030728104007.L85794@newshell.lmi.net> References: <200307281717.KAA03062@clulw009.amd.com> <20030728104007.L85794@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <3F2566B4.8030103@frixxon.co.uk> Fred Cisin wrote: > One of my hard drives was getting crowded; I was down to less than a meg > of free space. So, I stepped on the directory of a floppy, and created > a file that reported a size of -2147483648. Surely, if I copied a file > with that much negative size to the drive, it would give me more free > space! But it was unable to do the COPY. You should've used PKZIP. If your negative length file contained only nulls, they would compress very well, maybe down to -100 bytes or so. If you add on the zip header information, you'd end up with a zip file with a very small positive length (call it 200 bytes). You copy this 200-byte file to your hard disk and unzip it to recreate the original -2GB file. I think there are only two problems with this: 1. You won't gain anything if you're running with compression on your hard disk. 2. My glass is empty. - Paul From patrick at evocative.com Mon Jul 28 13:15:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:05 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <20030728104007.L85794@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: > FAT16 is limited to 4G > > But DOS and Win9x limits it to 2147483647 (NTx permits 4G). > The 2G limitation is due to the use of signed long ints in places that > should have an UNSIGNED long int. Because of that, it can have files with > a NEGATIVE size! Fred, I think another reason for this limit is that DOS only allows the allocation unit (cluster) size be an even power of two. That leaves out a lot of possible values. If Bob is willing to "forgive" DOS compatibility, he could allow any allocation unit size that fits in a byte (so 255 theoretically, but he could also choose a 16- or 32-bit factor), allowing for a much higher limit. --Patrick From patrick at evocative.com Mon Jul 28 13:22:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:05 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > I agree that it's simple, but not that it's efficient. For small micros, > > finding the first "0" bit in an arbitrarily long bit string takes a few > > cycles. > > You would just look for the first byte that is not a 255. That's absolutely true, you can do that, and from there it's fairly straightforward. But here's what I'm thinking. Let's say you have just a 1.44MB floppy, with a 512 byte sector size. A convenient allocation size might be one sector, because you can easily fit the total number of allocation units (2880) into a 16-bit unsigned integer (that which is used in the file link blocks). That takes about 360 bytes to store on disk, which fits nicely into a single sector as well. So far, so good. But now let's say you go to an 80MB partition with 512 byte sectors. You then have approximately 163,840 allocation units (not discounting any space used for boot and other common structures). That's too many for a 16-bit word, so you decide to make your allocation units four sectors. That means you have 40,960 allocation units, each of which is 2K in size. Your free-space bitmap, then, would be 5,120 bytes, which takes 10 sectors or 3 allocation units to store depending on your implementation choices, but let's just go with the smaller 10-sector size. I'm thinking about two things: first, trying to keep the entire volume bitmap in memory chews up almost 5K of RAM, and that's probably not good for an 8-bit machine, at least, it's not sufficiently memory-efficient, IMO. Second, if you decide then that you'll only deal with one sector of it at a time to save RAM, you may have to read-then-write juggle those ten sectors a lot. If you do a linear search for a free block, it may be that you can rip through the 255-valued bytes quickly, but they have to be in RAM, so you may have to do several reads to find what you want, which saps time. You can, of course, keep a pointer to where the last non-255 byte was in the map, so your searches don't have to be linear from the beginning. But there's still the issue of deleting a very sparse file, or allocating when the free space is badly fragmented, so the zero-bits are spread out widely. While the implementation of a linked list for the 80MB example would require a 81,920 byte list (160 sectors), that map implements both the free list and the allocated file chains, so the total space used by both structures may be less than that consumed by the sum of leaf/sapling/tree indirect map blocks alone once the disk starts to fill up (say, you had more than 160 or more files on disk, each large enough--bigger than just one sector?--that it requires at least one map block in addition to its data blocks). And access to a free block is direct in the linked list--no search. The upper boundary of size of any one file is the size of the disk itself, which is nice, and if you made the simple design choices that an allocation unit can be 255 sectors maximum, and number of allocation units must be 65,520 or less (reserving a couple of values for flags in the map like bad block), the maximum partition size would be nearly 8GB on 512 byte sectors, which I think is acceptable for implementation on a vintage system. What doesn't work so well in this implementation is a lot of jumping around inside a file, which may require many repeated trips down the file's allocation chain, in which case that tree is a much better structure. That tree structure, incidently, is also very close to the original *nix filesystem. That's what I was considering, and certainly, as someone else said in this thread, performance is one of the tradeoffs that can be made to implement that "simplest" requirement of the Bob's. I just love thinking about this stuff, though. :-) Thanks for the lively discussion, and for the education on ProDOS. Do you have a good pointer to more details on line? I just picked up a IIe... :-) Patrick From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon Jul 28 13:36:01 2003 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:05 2005 Subject: KC Computer Swap Shop? Message-ID: <958B228E6A626242A3FEAB621C4C933550A9A9@exch2000.cmh.internal> computer swap & shop 5612 Johnson Dr 66202 Phone 913-262-1991 FAX 913-262-2262 Mike From kapteynr at cboe.com Mon Jul 28 13:40:01 2003 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Kapteyn, Rob) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:05 2005 Subject: ROM on Altair front panel board Message-ID: Which version Altair ? The original Altair has no ROM anywhere. I think you are looking at the "turn-key" version. It has no switches for manual intervention, so it would have to have some intelligence, in the form of a boot-loader. I have never worked with a turn-key version, so I am not sure. -Rob -----Original Message----- From: Cini, Richard [mailto:RCini@congressfinancial.com] Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 12:15 PM To: CCTech (E-mail) Subject: ROM on Altair front panel board Hello, all: I was just looking at the schematics for the display/control board for the Altair 8800 and saw that there is a 1702 EPROM on the board. The lowest 4-bits of the EPROM's address bus are connected to a 7493 binary counter and the highest 4-bits are connected directly to the address bus. What's the purpose of the EPROM? Did the front panel have some intelligence? Rich From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon Jul 28 13:56:00 2003 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:05 2005 Subject: at&t 458 Message-ID: <958B228E6A626242A3FEAB621C4C933550A9AA@exch2000.cmh.internal> From RCini at congressfinancial.com Mon Jul 28 14:04:00 2003 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:05 2005 Subject: ROM on Altair front panel board Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5127B05@MAIL10> Bob: I don't know the exact Altair model the schematics relate to, but it's not the turnkey model. The ROM socket appears on the display/control board schematic, which has the front panel switches and LEDs. The Altair Turnkey would, I believe, have a different board in it called the Turnkey Module or something like that. If you want to see the schematic, go to my Altair32 Emulator page and look on the technical links page for the ZIP file containing scans of the schematics. I do not have an Altair, and I got these schematics from another source. The only designation on the page is "Figure 3-16; Display/Control Schematic (sheet 1 of 3)". The URL is http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/Altair32.htm I've had these schematics for a while, but I never looked at them that closely. Rich -----Original Message----- From: Kapteyn, Rob [mailto:kapteynr@cboe.com] Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 2:37 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: ROM on Altair front panel board Which version Altair ? The original Altair has no ROM anywhere. I think you are looking at the "turn-key" version. It has no switches for manual intervention, so it would have to have some intelligence, in the form of a boot-loader. I have never worked with a turn-key version, so I am not sure. -Rob -----Original Message----- From: Cini, Richard [mailto:RCini@congressfinancial.com] Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 12:15 PM To: CCTech (E-mail) Subject: ROM on Altair front panel board Hello, all: I was just looking at the schematics for the display/control board for the Altair 8800 and saw that there is a 1702 EPROM on the board. The lowest 4-bits of the EPROM's address bus are connected to a 7493 binary counter and the highest 4-bits are connected directly to the address bus. What's the purpose of the EPROM? Did the front panel have some intelligence? Rich From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jul 28 14:06:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: IMSAI Restoration Suggestions? Message-ID: <200307281902.MAA03133@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Martin Scott Goldberg" > >I'm hoping someone on the list can help. I rescued an IMSAI 8080, as well >as a large (and heavy) dual 8" drive chasis (fully enclosed). > >The IMSAI is stocked full of cards which I haven't figured out what they >are yet as they're in pretty tight and I'm afraid of breaking something >yanking them out. I'm assuming at least one of them is a terminal >interface card and another an interface for the drives. > >Here's the two problems with the unit though: > >1) It appears to be missing the main processor card. Everything else >looks mint, including the control panel and the ribbon from the pannel >to the control/processor card is intact as well. Hi It sounds like it is missing the processor card. Still, it may have one but it doesn't interface with the front panel. The only signals that run through the ribbon are data signals. All of the rest go through the bus. This means that if you don't need the ability to used that readouts of the panel, you can do things like reset and run without the ribbon. Check to see if there is some other processor card there. I see original 8080 cards on ebay often but there were many second source Z80 cards with the ribbon cable connector made as well. I see these very often on ebay. Just keep an eye out. > >2) The people (the university janitorial staff) that were throwing it out, >cut off the power cord. Hence there is a stub of a cord connected to the >power supply now running out the back. So, install a new cord. > > >I'm basicly looking for any help/suggestions in how to indentify the cards >and what I can do to fix the other two problems. Thanks! Take pictures. Put them on a web page. Note any text found on boards. Dwight > > > >Marty From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jul 28 14:06:19 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Looking for Sharp pens In-Reply-To: <068e34194c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> References: <002801c353e9$6e95c3e0$b15a3b18@homebrew> <002801c353e9$6e95c3e0$b15a3b18@homebrew> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030728144232.491f0752@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Those MAY be the same pens that were used in the Radio Shack GCP-115 preinter/plotter and a printer/plotter that Atari sold. The last ones that I bought came from a surplus company (Electronics Goldmine or somebody like that) but that was about 10 years ago. Joe At 06:58 PM 7/28/03 +0100, you wrote: >In message <002801c353e9$6e95c3e0$b15a3b18@homebrew> > "Tom Lake" wrote: > >> Do you have any Sharp EA-850B (black) or EA-850C (color) pens available for >> sale? If so how many do you have and how much would you like for some? >I'm also after some of these pens - they're basically tiny ballpoints that >were used in the Sharp pen plotters, e.g. the CE-515P. > >Thanks. >-- >Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, >philpem@dsl.pipex.com | video mods, 10BaseT (i3 EtherLAN600), >http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 8xCD, framegrabber, teletext >Diagonally parked in a parallel universe. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jul 28 14:06:49 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030728150434.491f24d4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:18 AM 7/28/03 -0700, Patrick wrote: >> > I agree that it's simple, but not that it's efficient. For small micros, >> > finding the first "0" bit in an arbitrarily long bit string takes a few >> > cycles. >> >> You would just look for the first byte that is not a 255. > >That's absolutely true, you can do that, and from there it's fairly >straightforward. But here's what I'm thinking. Let's say you have just a >1.44MB floppy, with a 512 byte sector size. A convenient allocation size >might be one sector, because you can easily fit the total number of >allocation units (2880) into a 16-bit unsigned integer (that which is used >in the file link blocks). That takes about 360 bytes to store on disk, >which fits nicely into a single sector as well. So far, so good. > >But now let's say you go to an 80MB partition with 512 byte sectors. You >then have approximately 163,840 allocation units (not discounting any space >used for boot and other common structures). That's too many for a 16-bit >word, so you decide to make your allocation units four sectors. That means >you have 40,960 allocation units, each of which is 2K in size. Your >free-space bitmap, then, would be 5,120 bytes, which takes 10 sectors or 3 >allocation units to store depending on your implementation choices, but >let's just go with the smaller 10-sector size. > >I'm thinking about two things: first, trying to keep the entire volume >bitmap in memory chews up almost 5K of RAM, and that's probably not good for >an 8-bit machine, at least, it's not sufficiently memory-efficient, IMO. >Second, if you decide then that you'll only deal with one sector of it at a >time to save RAM, you may have to read-then-write juggle those ten sectors a >lot. If you do a linear search for a free block, it may be that you can rip >through the 255-valued bytes quickly, but they have to be in RAM, so you may >have to do several reads to find what you want, which saps time. I wonder if it really would sap a lot of time. Modern IDE drives have large cache buffers so I would think that system could very likely read the data from the buffer. I'm thinking that as slow as these old systems are and as fast as the modern drives are that it would be better to use a simple and fast algorithim even if it means more drive accesses. Joe From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Mon Jul 28 14:22:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: ROM on Altair front panel board Message-ID: > I was just looking at the schematics for the display/control board > for the Altair 8800 and saw that there is a 1702 EPROM on the board. The > lowest 4-bits of the EPROM's address bus are connected to a 7493 binary > counter and the highest 4-bits are connected directly to the address bus. > > What's the purpose of the EPROM? Did the front panel have some > intelligence? I'm pretty sure that you're looking at an Altair 8800B front panel schematic. I believe those were software controlled front panels. The 8800 and 8800a had no EPROMs on the front panel - just TTL and the switches, LEDs, etc. Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From patrick at evocative.com Mon Jul 28 14:31:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030728150434.491f24d4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > >lot. If you do a linear search for a free block, it may be that > you can rip > >through the 255-valued bytes quickly, but they have to be in > RAM, so you may > >have to do several reads to find what you want, which saps time. > > > I wonder if it really would sap a lot of time. Modern IDE drives have > large cache buffers so I would think that system could very > likely read the > data from the buffer. I'm thinking that as slow as these old systems are > and as fast as the modern drives are that it would be better to use a > simple and fast algorithim even if it means more drive accesses. > > Joe Joe, that is absolutely true. I was not considering the speed or caching abilities of the drive itself. I was thinking more generically of an approach that would work OK for both a sluggish floppy and a faster hard disk without software changes. Additional accesses penalize floppies, but that may not be an issue for Bob. --Patrick From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Mon Jul 28 14:33:01 2003 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Found today.. Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DC87@lif015.vtmerlin.com> No box and no instructions but fully working and, apart from a little dusty, in good condition a Commodore SR7949D scientific calculator. Price, nothing. I had already bought some things and had just pulled this out of a box and asked 'how much' only to be told take it. So I did. I like those prices. Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jul 28 14:41:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? Message-ID: <200307281937.MAA03156@clulw009.amd.com> >From: Joe > >At 11:18 AM 7/28/03 -0700, Patrick wrote: >>> > I agree that it's simple, but not that it's efficient. For small micros, >>> > finding the first "0" bit in an arbitrarily long bit string takes a few >>> > cycles. >>> >>> You would just look for the first byte that is not a 255. >> >>That's absolutely true, you can do that, and from there it's fairly >>straightforward. But here's what I'm thinking. Let's say you have just a >>1.44MB floppy, with a 512 byte sector size. A convenient allocation size >>might be one sector, because you can easily fit the total number of >>allocation units (2880) into a 16-bit unsigned integer (that which is used >>in the file link blocks). That takes about 360 bytes to store on disk, >>which fits nicely into a single sector as well. So far, so good. >> >>But now let's say you go to an 80MB partition with 512 byte sectors. You >>then have approximately 163,840 allocation units (not discounting any space >>used for boot and other common structures). That's too many for a 16-bit >>word, so you decide to make your allocation units four sectors. That means >>you have 40,960 allocation units, each of which is 2K in size. Your >>free-space bitmap, then, would be 5,120 bytes, which takes 10 sectors or 3 >>allocation units to store depending on your implementation choices, but >>let's just go with the smaller 10-sector size. >> >>I'm thinking about two things: first, trying to keep the entire volume >>bitmap in memory chews up almost 5K of RAM, and that's probably not good for >>an 8-bit machine, at least, it's not sufficiently memory-efficient, IMO. >>Second, if you decide then that you'll only deal with one sector of it at a >>time to save RAM, you may have to read-then-write juggle those ten sectors a >>lot. If you do a linear search for a free block, it may be that you can rip >>through the 255-valued bytes quickly, but they have to be in RAM, so you may >>have to do several reads to find what you want, which saps time. > > > I wonder if it really would sap a lot of time. Modern IDE drives have >large cache buffers so I would think that system could very likely read the >data from the buffer. I'm thinking that as slow as these old systems are >and as fast as the modern drives are that it would be better to use a >simple and fast algorithim even if it means more drive accesses. > > Joe > As I recall, Bob is looking to put this onto some old HP hardware. Dwight From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jul 28 15:26:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20030728150434.491f24d4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030728162314.1357b2f6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:27 PM 7/28/03 -0700, you wrote: >> >lot. If you do a linear search for a free block, it may be that >> you can rip >> >through the 255-valued bytes quickly, but they have to be in >> RAM, so you may >> >have to do several reads to find what you want, which saps time. >> >> >> I wonder if it really would sap a lot of time. Modern IDE drives have >> large cache buffers so I would think that system could very >> likely read the >> data from the buffer. I'm thinking that as slow as these old systems are >> and as fast as the modern drives are that it would be better to use a >> simple and fast algorithim even if it means more drive accesses. >> >> Joe > >Joe, that is absolutely true. I was not considering the speed or caching >abilities of the drive itself. I was thinking more generically of an >approach that would work OK for both a sluggish floppy and a faster hard >disk without software changes. Additional accesses penalize floppies, but >that may not be an issue for Bob. --Patrick > I'm also one of the people that's tinkering with the HP 1000s which are the target systems. I think Bob only plans on using this for a hard drive. AFIK there's no plans to develope a floppy drive systems for these computers (although it would be nice). The biggest problem that I see here is that Bob wants to be able to use this OS on systems that have as little as 16k words but still use LARGE modern drives. I'm not sure that's practicle without a lot of wasting a lot of drive space. But I frankly don't think wastage is a problem. There's simply not a lot of software for this OS and I don't think we'd ever use more than a tiny fraction of the drive. Therefore my vote ould be for program size, speed and drive space effientcy in that order. FWIW A FAT table and MS-DOS file system would be nice for compatibility but without a floppy drive it would probably be a waste. You COULD put the drive into a PC and transfer files but I don't think that's likely. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jul 28 15:52:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: HP 9877 Tape Memory /Duplicator was Re: 09877-10002 In-Reply-To: <6BAF987BB74AB5449B35B9D7DF080D315C846F@wrcl5as> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030728165017.492fe38e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Doyle, You or someone else from WR called me a couple of months ago about this same problem. IIRC the problem that you had was that the rubber drive belt in your tape had failed. I found someone that says he can repair that. He says that he will try to repair it if you will send him your tape. Contact me direct you you want to attempt this and I'll give you his contact information. If you do get it fixed you need to IMMEDIATEY make plenty of backups of it. I have two 9877s, NASA at KSC has one and there's one more in England and none of us have the software tape to operate them. I think I have a tape for the 9877 that I found a couple of months ago but I know it has a bad drive belt and I haven't done anything with it. I'd also be surprised if the tape itself is still good. The HP tape systems are notorious for (1) bad drive belts in the tapes, (2) bad tapes (the magnetic media falls off) and (3) bad tape drives (the drive wheels turn to glop). For example, I bought a sealed CASE of brand new sealed HP brand tapes a couple of yuears ago and it turned out that almost half of them were bad right out of the case. In another test, I found 13 HP tapes that were still working and I started using them. Most failed immediately ( within a few hours), a few more failed over the next couple of days and the last one failed within a week. I also found a NIB tape drive a couple of weeks ago. It was still in a plastic bag inside of a sealed cardbaord box but the drive wheel had literally melted and all of it had dripped off of the drive capstan. I strongly suggest that you look into disk drive systems for your 9825s and abandon the tape drives. The drive systems are widely available in the surplus market and are cheap. In fact, since you're a government agency you could get them for nothing from other government agencies that are surplussing them. I would recommend the HP 9121 S or D disk drives. They're small, reliable and use standard 720k 3.5" floppy disks. The S drive is a single drive and the D drives have two drives in them. I thnk you'll need one of the option ROMs in order to use the floppy dirves but those are also available surplus and again you could probably get all you need from other agencies for free. There are a LOT of 9825s out there. Joe At 04:27 PM 7/24/03 +0000, you wrote: >We at Robins AF BASE are in need of a copy of a 09877-10002 Tape Binary >Duplicator Tape. I just did a Google search for this part number and >recieved the following. Do you still have these? Any help would be >appreciated. Thanks, Doyle Bullock > >Eureka! >Joe cctech@classiccmp.org >Sun Feb 9 16:04:30 2003 >* Previous message: CCS 2422 Floppy Disk Controller <009850.html> >* Next message: Eureka! <009859.html> > * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] > [ subject ] [ author ] > > Well I didn't find the Holy Grail but this is close! I went to a hamfest >today and in a box of junk I found the operating program for the HP 9877 >Mass Memory unit! That's the box that has up to four tape drives installed >and was used to mass duplicate HP 9825 tapes at the HP factory. The 9877 is >a rare bird and was only offered to the public for one year (1979 IIRC) but >I've got two of the 9877s, Tony D has one and NASA KSC has one but NO ONE >has been able to locate the operating program for it till now. The tape >APPEARS to be in good condition but you know how HP tapes are :-( > > The full name of the tape is "Duplicator 9825A/9877" and it's part number >is 09877-10002. > > Other INTERESTING finds (in the same box no less!) were a new DC-300A >tape (as used on the IBM 5100 and Tektronix 4051), a Plot 50 tape and Plot >50 Backup tape and an Alignment tape. All three are for the Tektronix 4051 >computer. > > Wahoo! A good ClassiComp day! > > Joe > > >* Previous message: CCS 2422 Floppy Disk Controller <009850.html> >* Next message: Eureka! <009859.html> > * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] > [ subject ] [ author ] From aek at spies.com Mon Jul 28 16:35:01 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system Message-ID: <200307282135.h6SLZ9oG013107@spies.com> The biggest problem that I see here is that Bob wants to be able to use this OS on systems that have as little as 16k words but still use LARGE modern drives. -- I have been thinking about this a LOT lately relating to using older CPUs with few or none of the original peripherals, and it may make sense, since you're building an IDE interface anyway, to build a file level interface onto the card, rather than talking to the drive as an unstructured block device. The idea I've been toying with is building an interface card like this with a local processor, disc, ethernet, etc. and using it in conjuction with a remote system that would provide the console / debugging UI / shared peripherals for a bunch of different processors that I have. This would also reduce the in-core footprint of the OS, since the file system (and networking in my case) is handled on the interface card. From spc at conman.org Mon Jul 28 18:53:01 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030728162314.1357b2f6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Jul 28, 2003 04:23:14 PM Message-ID: <20030728234935.8E84B140DCD9@swift.conman.org> > The biggest problem that I see here is that Bob wants to be able to use > this OS on systems that have as little as 16k words but still use LARGE > modern drives. I'm not sure that's practicle without a lot of wasting a lot > of drive space. But I frankly don't think wastage is a problem. There's > simply not a lot of software for this OS and I don't think we'd ever use > more than a tiny fraction of the drive. Therefore my vote ould be for > program size, speed and drive space effientcy in that order. So what about the archiving file system I outlined? Files are stored contiguously, and if you want to append to a file, it's copied to the end of the used space, given a new time stamp, and it goes from there? -spc (And if you don't want to set aside a fix amount for the master directory, have the directory at one end of the drive, and pull the free space from the other end, where they would meet in the middle ... ) From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Jul 28 19:58:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? References: <3.0.6.16.20030728150434.491f24d4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3F25C5F8.7070203@tiac.net> Joe wrote: > > I wonder if it really would sap a lot of time. Modern IDE drives have >large cache buffers so I would think that system could very likely read the >data from the buffer. I'm thinking that as slow as these old systems are >and as fast as the modern drives are that it would be better to use a >simple and fast algorithim even if it means more drive accesses. > > Joe > Hold on here, the IDE drive (technically, the ATA drive, but nevermind that...) may have a buffer, this it quite irrelevant here. As soon as you hook your fast ATA disk up to a classic CPU like an HP1000 or an Imlac, you now have a slow disk system by any modern standard. Also, if the classic CPU is running the disk access code, there is another layer of performance hit. Another little detail of reality... Some HP disk systems force the use of DCPC (DMA) transfers. The boot mechanisim also forces the use of some linear files, files that use contiguous sectors on disk to store boot images. If some FAT system is used that allows non-linear files, then the code to control the DCPC logic has to deal with 2 cases, simple linear file transfers, and non-linear file transfers performed as a series of smaller DCPC block transfers. This is complexity I don't need, especially since many other disks don't demand DCPC transfers. Lets be a bit more analytical here, clearly people have deep seated emotions on the subject. This only complicates objective engineering. From all I've read so far, the only advantages FAT based approaches offer are: 1. Allowing efficient disk space use by implementing non-linear files. 2. Easing disk optimization tricks. But non-FAT based DOS's have been implemented, and once SQUEEZED, appear to be just as efficient as other schemes. Yes, fragmentation is an issue, but this is more easily solved (via SQUEEZE) then the code needed to maintain the FAT. Simplicity suggests that if its not needed, its not implemented. Traditional file systems tend to need to be tweaked in different ways (FAT sizes, cluster sizes, etc) for different kinds of media. I think there is a very different way to approach all this, and have a single scheme for all sizes of disks that will deliver a common level of efficiency in all cases. Think this is impossible? FORTH's block address scheme works. The trick is to very carefully adopt some features of other file systems while challenging their fundemental assumptions and take only what makes sense. I think there is a lot to be learned from vintage file systems like TSS-8, RT-11, Northstar DOS, etc. This discussion is fascinating and very helpful, but not being familiar with the guts of the variety of DOS's being thrown into the duscussion I'd really appreciate it if we could be a little more clear on the specific advantages each implementation choice implies. There seems to be a real lack of any objective anatomical dissection of different methods in print, at least in a readable (approachable) form. This is proably the only place such a discussion could ever take place, as so few people new to file system internals ever develop new approaches. What was the last 'really different' way to store stuff on disk? From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Jul 28 20:17:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? References: <200307281937.MAA03156@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3F25CA9D.6060803@tiac.net> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >>> >>> >>>I'm thinking about two things: first, trying to keep the entire volume >>>bitmap in memory chews up almost 5K of RAM, and that's probably not good for >>>an 8-bit machine, at least, it's not sufficiently memory-efficient, IMO. >>>Second, if you decide then that you'll only deal with one sector of it at a >>>time to save RAM, you may have to read-then-write juggle those ten sectors a >>>lot. If you do a linear search for a free block, it may be that you can rip >>>through the 255-valued bytes quickly, but they have to be in RAM, so you may >>>have to do several reads to find what you want, which saps time. >>> >> >> I wonder if it really would sap a lot of time. Modern IDE drives have >>large cache buffers so I would think that system could very likely read the >>data from the buffer. I'm thinking that as slow as these old systems are >>and as fast as the modern drives are that it would be better to use a >>simple and fast algorithim even if it means more drive accesses. >> >> Joe >> > >As I recall, Bob is looking to put this onto some old HP hardware. >Dwight > Yes, I'm using old HP hardware, ranging from a 4 microsecond per instruction HP 2116 with 16K words of core up to a sub-microsecond HP 2113 with half a megaword of high-perf RAM. For disks, I beleive its possible to support anything from a 2.5 meg 7900 cartridge, up to a 300 meg CS/80 disk, or even my 8 gig ATA disk controller using an identical set of disk data structures. In fact, very large physical devices would consist of an array of smaller identical subsystems, so larger devices would appear to have subdirectories. Its true that as the drive gets larger and larger, this approach will become more and more inefficient. But its also true that this becomes less and less important at a faster rate than the inefficiencies grow. Add to this the fact that a squeeze utility can reduce the performance inefficiencies to nearly zero as-needed. So in strict terms of number of machine code instructions needed versus functionality provided, simple does seem to imply a flat, linear, probably FAT-less file system. From what I've read, this is not unlike a BFS partition, only I'm thinking of something like an array of BFS's for large disks, and a single 'logical volume' for smaller ones, so all the disk allocation parameters are constant. From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Jul 28 20:33:01 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system References: <200307282135.h6SLZ9oG013107@spies.com> Message-ID: <3F25CE5F.1020607@tiac.net> Al Kossow wrote: > The biggest problem that I see here is that Bob wants to be able to use >this OS on systems that have as little as 16k words but still use LARGE >modern drives. > Well, thats not quite right. I have long understood that real disk file system functionality will require 32K words at a minimum. For the HP 1000's, the 21MX processors offer some microcode tricks in the DMS instructions that greatly simplify building a DOS, but using these eliminates large 2116's and 2100A/S's from running the code. The core O/S as it stands now already provides very usable and realistic support for smaller and slower CPU's. Whats missing now is the DOS functionality for 'larger' machines. We may end up limiting DOS functionality to 21MX machines with DMS, but will make an effort not to. > >-- > >I have been thinking about this a LOT lately relating to using older >CPUs with few or none of the original peripherals, and it may make >sense, since you're building an IDE interface anyway, to build a >file level interface onto the card, rather than talking to the drive >as an unstructured block device. The idea I've been toying with is >building an interface card like this with a local processor, disc, >ethernet, etc. and using it in conjuction with a remote system that >would provide the console / debugging UI / shared peripherals for >a bunch of different processors that I have. > This is exactly the genisis of what we call HP-IPL/OS. At one time, when I still had my NOVA's, there was going to be a parallel effort on DG-IPL/OS. Similar vairents could be generated for any vintage machine, like IMLAC-IPL/OS, etc. in exactly the same way that FORTH is bootstrapped onto a new CPU. In fact, much of the IPL language is written in IPL, not unlike a LISP machine O/S being written in LISP. Being a modular threaded interpreter, you can take a single binary kernel that runs on anything from a 4K 2114 up to a 21MX processor, and load just whats needed for your configuration. Because you first bootstrap the HP processor from a host, IPL/OS can run as a parasite machine hung from a serial port with no vintage peripherals (other than serial interfaces). As you bring peripherals on-line, or build emulations, you download new code blocks until you have a totally self-sufficient operating system with a DOS and source-code editor, etc. Its just a series of layers wrapped around the same common threaded engine at the core. I think the inner interpreter is only 23 words or so. > >This would also reduce the in-core footprint of the OS, since >the file system (and networking in my case) is handled on the >interface card. > An excellent approach for machines without native peripherals. In the case of the HP 1000's there is an I/O card that is ideal for this, its a 4 Mhz Z80 with 16 mb of DRAM, and 16K of EPROM. It has a fast DMA interface to the HP backplane, and several advanced Z80 SIO-type chips to talk to an external system. The problem is developing the Z80 code to talk to something outside the box. but should you come across the documentation for HP's programmable serial interface board, I've got the hardware. From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Jul 28 20:45:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? References: <20030728234935.8E84B140DCD9@swift.conman.org> Message-ID: <3F25D102.6000507@tiac.net> Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: >> The biggest problem that I see here is that Bob wants to be able to use >>this OS on systems that have as little as 16k words but still use LARGE >>modern drives. I'm not sure that's practicle without a lot of wasting a lot >>of drive space. But I frankly don't think wastage is a problem. There's >>simply not a lot of software for this OS and I don't think we'd ever use >>more than a tiny fraction of the drive. Therefore my vote ould be for >>program size, speed and drive space effientcy in that order. >> > > So what about the archiving file system I outlined? Files are stored >contiguously, and if you want to append to a file, it's copied to the end of >the used space, given a new time stamp, and it goes from there? > One plan we are looking at does basically this same thing. Files will be allocated a fixed ammount of space, similar to a track per file as in Northstar DOS. A file can be smaller that its allocated space, and grow. If the file needs to be larger than its allocated space, it moves to the end of the disk, and a second file is created as an 'extent' to the first file. Files are always linear, so the HP DCPC control code remains simple. > > > -spc (And if you don't want to set aside a fix amount for the master > directory, have the directory at one end of the drive, and pull > the free space from the other end, where they would meet in > the middle ... ) > A directory of logical volumes on disk can be held in the last directory entry of the 'boot' file system. All DOS disk calculations within a volume are relative to the directory block, so be changing one disk address value and treating logical volumes as 'directories'. Actually each 'directory' is its own file system. This way large volumes can support subdirectory-like functionality, and the same exact code is used to support disks from 2.5 mb up to 8 gb. I think people had to think their software designs through more carefully when they only has 32K. Now that a machine with 32 meg is frowned upon, file systems have become a very different thing in terms of implementation. From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Jul 28 20:56:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? References: <3.0.6.16.20030728150434.491f24d4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030728162314.1357b2f6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3F25D3C2.2010909@tiac.net> Joe wrote: >> >> > > > I'm also one of the people that's tinkering with the HP 1000s which are >the target systems. > > I think Bob only plans on using this for a hard drive. AFIK there's no >plans to develope a floppy drive systems for these computers (although it >would be nice). > > The biggest problem that I see here is that Bob wants to be able to use >this OS on systems that have as little as 16k words but still use LARGE >modern drives. I'm not sure that's practicle without a lot of wasting a lot >of drive space. But I frankly don't think wastage is a problem. There's >simply not a lot of software for this OS and I don't think we'd ever use >more than a tiny fraction of the drive. Therefore my vote ould be for >program size, speed and drive space effientcy in that order. > > FWIW A FAT table and MS-DOS file system would be nice for compatibility >but without a floppy drive it would probably be a waste. You COULD put the >drive into a PC and transfer files but I don't think that's likely. > > Joe > Actually, the DOS code will support: HP 7900A, CS/80, and my ATA disk hack at first. MAC support could be developed, but I know of no operational hardware available for development. Having redone the ATA hack in 5 chips, I have no desire for any HP drives other than CS/80. I would love to support the HP 9885M floppy disk, I have the hardware, but very limited and incomplete programming information. I will take another stab at programming this beast, as I've found that it can format totally blank media after all. In terms of memory, file system access is going to require 32K words of memory, and there is a very real possibility that DMS (HP 21MX only) will be required. It might be possible to really trim down the dictionary and run DOS functions in less than 32K, but it would not be very practical. The reason for this, is that using DMS we can read an ABS program like HP BASIC or HP ALGOL into virtual memory, then swap those pages into the SYSTEM map from 0 to 31K words with the top 1K used for a block swapping loader, so when HP BASIC terminates your right back inside your running IPL program. This was IPL programs can load and run existing HP software under program control, being a 'real' O/S. This actually takes a lot less code than conventional disk swapping, and its vastly faster too. It makes very good use of HP's DMS architecture. From spc at conman.org Mon Jul 28 21:08:00 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <3F25D102.6000507@tiac.net> from "Bob Shannon" at Jul 28, 2003 09:42:26 PM Message-ID: <20030729020444.871D0140D49D@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Bob Shannon once stated: > > Files will be allocated a fixed ammount of space, similar to a track per > file as in Northstar DOS. > A file can be smaller that its allocated space, and grow. If the file > needs to be larger than its allocated > space, it moves to the end of the disk, and a second file is created as > an 'extent' to the first file. > > Files are always linear, so the HP DCPC control code remains simple. I have a few questions then. 1) What is the smallest amount of data that can be transferred? The largest amount? Any restrictions on data placement? (for instance, on old PCs, you could only use the lower 1M (16M for 286 or better) of RAM, the smallest amount was 512 bytes, largest 64k (128k for 286 or better) but you could not cross a 64k boundary) How much space can you set aside for disk buffering? > I think people had to think their software designs through more > carefully when they only has 32K. Now that > a machine with 32 meg is frowned upon, file systems have become a very > different thing in terms of implementation. Another question: about how big do you expect the average file to be? And what type of files do you expect there to be? -spc (Interesting problem ... ) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jul 28 21:31:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <20030728234935.8E84B140DCD9@swift.conman.org> References: <3.0.6.16.20030728162314.1357b2f6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030728221956.114f1942@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:49 PM 7/28/03 -0400, Bob wrote: >> The biggest problem that I see here is that Bob wants to be able to use >> this OS on systems that have as little as 16k words but still use LARGE >> modern drives. I'm not sure that's practicle without a lot of wasting a lot >> of drive space. But I frankly don't think wastage is a problem. There's >> simply not a lot of software for this OS and I don't think we'd ever use >> more than a tiny fraction of the drive. Therefore my vote ould be for >> program size, speed and drive space effientcy in that order. > > So what about the archiving file system I outlined? Files are stored >contiguously, and if you want to append to a file, it's copied to the end of >the used space, given a new time stamp, and it goes from there? That sounds fine to me. Joe From esharpe at uswest.net Tue Jul 29 00:33:00 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Found today.. References: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DC87@lif015.vtmerlin.com> Message-ID: <00d901c35592$5358f1b0$0100a8c0@SONYDIGITALED> Congrats! does she power up? they also made an earlier desk top calc. with a wood grain top on it! would like to find some advertising mater to display with this unit. another weird calc we have is a Litton, it is blue and has square pads you touch a stylus to enter the numbers.... would love a date on this and perhaps some advertising material or a hit as to what issue mag. it could be found in. Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Davison, Lee" To: Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 12:29 PM Subject: Found today.. > No box and no instructions but fully working and, apart > from a little dusty, in good condition a Commodore SR7949D > scientific calculator. > > Price, nothing. I had already bought some things and had > just pulled this out of a box and asked 'how much' only > to be told take it. So I did. > > I like those prices. > > Lee. > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The > service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive > anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: > http://www.star.net.uk > ________________________________________________________________________ From cvisors at carnagevisors.net Tue Jul 29 02:30:01 2003 From: cvisors at carnagevisors.net (Benjamin Gardiner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Decdocs.org Site and contents In-Reply-To: <3F24FC67.5030109@carnagevisors.net> References: <22e4a1fb0e.1fb0e22e4a@ono.com> <3F241897.5040701@frixxon.co.uk> <3F24FC67.5030109@carnagevisors.net> Message-ID: <3F2621B0.6080505@carnagevisors.net> > Paul Williams wrote: >> Most of the documents on decdocs.org came from the DEC MDS CDs of >> December 1994, donated by Tim Shoppa. At least two sites are now >> mirroring these: >> >> - http://www.purdueriots.com/ (Patrick Finnegan) >> - http://cmcnabb.cc.vt.edu/dec94mds/ (Christopher McNabb) >> >> (I see that Benjamin Gardiner's mirror has now disappeared, for >> bandwidth reasons.) >> Just a quick note to tell you all that these documents are now back at their original place which is: http://www.carnagevisors.net/classiccmp/dec94mds/ hopefully I won't get hammered too much again. -- one you lock the target two you bait the line three you slowly spread the net and four you catch the man Front 242 Headhunter From roger161uk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jul 29 07:02:01 2003 From: roger161uk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Roger=20Bisson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Quantum Lightning 540 AT Hard Disk Message-ID: <20030729115821.8956.qmail@web60004.mail.yahoo.com> I have an old Quantum Lightning 540 AT hard disk containing some data I want to retrieve. The drive itself was removed from a computer some years ago (about 7 or 8 years), working as far as I remember. However, now, having tried to install the drive in a more modern machine to archive the data to CDR, the drive while recognized by the machine and the drive itself spinning up and apparently working returns a "hard disk read failure" error. Trawling the web, I found a short thread entitled "HD repair techniques" on cctalk. Like the original author of this thread, I too have a drive that contains data that is perhaps not worth the hundreds of pounds (GBP) that professional data recovery entails but wouldn't mind recovering the data all the same. Can anybody point me in the direction of any good information regarding the testing/diagnosis/repair of head-disk-assembly problems? Roger From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Tue Jul 29 07:26:01 2003 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Quantum Lightning 540 AT Hard Disk In-Reply-To: <20030729115821.8956.qmail@web60004.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030729115821.8956.qmail@web60004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1059481394.1466.40.camel@lucifer> On Tue, 2003-07-29 at 21:58, Roger Bisson wrote: > I have an old Quantum Lightning 540 AT hard disk > containing some data I want to retrieve. The drive > itself was removed from a computer some years ago > (about 7 or 8 years), working as far as I remember. > > However, now, having tried to install the drive in a > more modern machine to archive the data to CDR, the > drive while recognized by the machine and the drive > itself spinning up and apparently working returns a > "hard disk read failure" error. > Can anybody point me in the direction of any good > information regarding the testing/diagnosis/repair of > head-disk-assembly problems? I've had some success using the old "place the drive in a sealed plastic bag and refridgerate for a couple of hours" trick. No guarantees though! -- Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au Melbourne | "If soccer was meant to be played in the Australia | air, the sky would be painted green" From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Jul 29 12:01:55 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Quantum Lightning 540 AT Hard Disk References: <20030729115821.8956.qmail@web60004.mail.yahoo.com> <1059481394.1466.40.camel@lucifer> Message-ID: <005001c355f2$5b0c86a0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Huw Davies" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 8:23 AM Subject: Re: Quantum Lightning 540 AT Hard Disk > On Tue, 2003-07-29 at 21:58, Roger Bisson wrote: > > I have an old Quantum Lightning 540 AT hard disk > > containing some data I want to retrieve. The drive > > itself was removed from a computer some years ago > > (about 7 or 8 years), working as far as I remember. > > > > However, now, having tried to install the drive in a > > more modern machine to archive the data to CDR, the > > drive while recognized by the machine and the drive > > itself spinning up and apparently working returns a > > "hard disk read failure" error. > > > Can anybody point me in the direction of any good > > information regarding the testing/diagnosis/repair of > > head-disk-assembly problems? > > I've had some success using the old "place the drive in a sealed plastic > bag and refridgerate for a couple of hours" trick. > > No guarantees though! > -- Wasnt there a problem in the old days of IDE on pc's where a drive formatted on one controller had to be reformatted on a different brand controller to work? Also was the HD formatted with one of those programs that allowed larger drives to work with systems that couldnt normally use them? Were you using stacker or some other compression software on this hd? The oldest IDE drive I have thats being used at all is a 500mb conner drive, and it spins up and works fine on newer hardware. Make sure you using auto detect in the bios or try changing the method your machine uses to read the drive (LBA, 32 bit access, pio modes etc) From CyndeM at vulcan.com Tue Jul 29 12:33:01 2003 From: CyndeM at vulcan.com (Cynde Moya) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Stickers on 8 in floppys Message-ID: I notice on 8 in disks that the label stickers are affixed on the front, along the top, and only to about 1/4 of the way down. I was thinking of affixing bar code labels to the disks. I would like to put them on the back, where they would permanently identify the item, yet do not interfere with possible future display of the disk fronts. But I don't know if this would, somehow, get in the way of the proper functioning of the disks. I thank you in advance for any comments or advice. Cynde Moya, MLIS Archives Cataloguer Vulcan Inc. www.vulcan.com Office Tel. 206-223-4901 Mobile Tel. 206.369.3205 Fax. 206-223-4207 From Innfogra at aol.com Tue Jul 29 13:06:01 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10 Hard disk, NOS Message-ID: <1e4.e0bf490.2c5810bc@aol.com> Surprisingly I have a New Comrex ComFiler Hard disk subsystem on eBay and it doesn't even have one bid with seven hours to go. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2743819844&category=1247& rd=1 New old stock (NOS) in it's original carton, instructions, circuit card for the Epson QX-10 cables and an external 10 meg hard drive. Starting at $24.95 plus shipping which I think reasonable. Paxton Astoria, OR 97103 From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jul 29 13:11:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Quantum Lightning 540 AT Hard Disk Message-ID: <20030729180723.96068.qmail@web21101.mail.yahoo.com> > I have an old Quantum Lightning 540 AT hard disk ... > However, now, having tried to install the drive in a > more modern machine to archive the data to CDR, the > drive while recognized by the machine and the drive > itself spinning up and apparently working returns a > "hard disk read failure" error. Well it has drive to the spindle motor by the sounds of it. Whether the head assembly is intact is another matter. I think you can swap the boards on these things and expect them to still work - so using the combination of your chassis / motor / platter assembly and the logic board off a good drive might be enough - unless it is a fault in the head assembly. I have a Prodrive LPS 540AT in front of me right now which is likely the same thing as a Lightning. There seems to be just the one ribbon cable connecting the logic board to everything so a swap wouldn't be tricky and might cure things. Those drives used to be everywhere at one point so finding one shouldn't be too hard. Do double-check your drive cabling and BIOS settings (assuming it's a PC you're hooking up to) etc. - modern PC's seem to have a few billion settings for the disks and probably think you're using a new drive; they may make incorrect assumptions about data rates etc. > Can anybody point me in the direction of any good > information regarding the testing/diagnosis/repair of > head-disk-assembly problems? I know Western Digital used to release diagnostic utilities for their drives and held them on their website; there may be similar Quantum ones floating around. cheers Jules ===== Backward conditioning: putting saliva in a dog's mouth in an attempt to make a bell ring. ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Jul 29 13:23:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Stickers on 8 in floppys Message-ID: <200307291819.LAA03984@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Cynde Moya" > >I notice on 8 in disks that the label stickers are affixed on the front, along the top, and only to about 1/4 of the way down. > >I was thinking of affixing bar code labels to the disks. I would like to put them on the back, where they would permanently identify the item, yet do not interfere with possible future display of the disk fronts. > >But I don't know if this would, somehow, get in the way of the proper functioning of the disks. > >I thank you in advance for any comments or advice. Hi As long as they don't cover any of the holes or are mounted poorly such that they peel off, there is no issue with where you mount it. Of course, you need to be careful when mounting such that you don't damage the media ( such as using a ball point pen ). Dwight From coredump at gifford.co.uk Tue Jul 29 14:04:01 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: HP 1615 Logic Analyser Message-ID: <3F26C47C.90807@gifford.co.uk> I've just got an HP 1615 Logic Analyser on eBay for a few pounds, but it doesn't come with probes. Now, HP probes occasionally show up on eBay, too -- but which ones do I need for the 1615? Does anybody happen to know, please? -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Tue Jul 29 14:41:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Looking for Sharp pens Message-ID: A message dated 2003-06-28 at http://fixyourownprinter.com/printer/new/10274.html offers them for sale. -----Original Message----- From: Joe [mailto:rigdonj@cfl.rr.com] Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 9:43 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Looking for Sharp pens Those MAY be the same pens that were used in the Radio Shack GCP-115 preinter/plotter and a printer/plotter that Atari sold. The last ones that I bought came from a surplus company (Electronics Goldmine or somebody like that) but that was about 10 years ago. Joe At 06:58 PM 7/28/03 +0100, you wrote: >In message <002801c353e9$6e95c3e0$b15a3b18@homebrew> > "Tom Lake" wrote: > >> Do you have any Sharp EA-850B (black) or EA-850C (color) pens available for >> sale? If so how many do you have and how much would you like for some? >I'm also after some of these pens - they're basically tiny ballpoints that >were used in the Sharp pen plotters, e.g. the CE-515P. > >Thanks. >-- >Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, >philpem@dsl.pipex.com | video mods, 10BaseT (i3 EtherLAN600), >http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 8xCD, framegrabber, teletext >Diagonally parked in a parallel universe. From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jul 29 14:43:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Quantum Lightning 540 AT Hard Disk In-Reply-To: <005001c355f2$5b0c86a0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> References: <20030729115821.8956.qmail@web60004.mail.yahoo.com> <1059481394.1466.40.camel@lucifer> <005001c355f2$5b0c86a0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030729122032.V95045@newshell.lmi.net> On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, TeoZ wrote: > Wasnt there a problem in the old days of IDE on pc's where a drive formatted > on one controller had to be reformatted on a different brand controller to > work? That was the case with ST506/412 interface drives on the XT. On the AT, the controllers were almost standardized. Most of the young whippersnappers who think that the AT was the first computer, have never encountered that problem. Sometimes, the incompatibility was as trivial as one controller was formatting sectors numbered 0 - 16, while another was 1-17. And with an IDE drive, the "controller" is part of the drive assembly - the board in the computer is an interface card, not a controller. (the board in the computer doesn't make any of the choices of formatting parameters) > Also was the HD formatted with one of those programs that allowed > larger drives to work with systems that couldnt normally use them? Were you > using stacker or some other compression software on this hd? What is the exact wording of the message? Who is coming up with the error (DOS?, BIOS?) If the drive is being recognized, but gives the error when trying to boot, or doing a DIR, then the problem may be just a few bad sectors, and be a totally different problem than being completely unable to read any part of the drive at all. > The oldest IDE drive I have thats being used at all is a 500mb conner drive, > and it spins up and works fine on newer hardware. Make sure you using auto > detect in the bios or try changing the method your machine uses to read the > drive (LBA, 32 bit access, pio modes etc) Didn't some of the earliest IDE drives not support "auto-detect"? But surely a 540AT would be too new for that. Nevertheless, it might not hurt to manually put in the parameters for the drive. What are they for that drive? Can we assume that the machine will boot from floppy? If so, can the diagnostics of Speedstor see the drive properly? From oldcomp at cox.net Tue Jul 29 14:59:00 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: HP 1615 Logic Analyser References: <3F26C47C.90807@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <3F26C678.3070608@cox.net> My HP 1615A uses 10248B pods. Four of them. I don't know if these are the originals, or if any others might work. -Bryan John Honniball wrote: > I've just got an HP 1615 Logic Analyser on eBay for a few pounds, but > it doesn't come with probes. Now, HP probes occasionally show up on > eBay, too -- but which ones do I need for the 1615? Does anybody happen > to know, please? > > -- > John Honniball > coredump@gifford.co.uk From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Tue Jul 29 15:41:01 2003 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Marian Capel / Jos Dreesen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Tek 8002 system : some questions Message-ID: <7AB97327-C204-11D7-AEE3-000A9585D8F6@bluewin.ch> I have a few questions on this old beast : Does it work with another terminal than the tek4024 ? What are default baudrates... Are manuals online or available ? Any info welcome...... Thanks, Jos From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Jul 29 17:29:01 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Power cabling advice? In-Reply-To: <7AB97327-C204-11D7-AEE3-000A9585D8F6@bluewin.ch> Message-ID: Hi all, After reviewing the current status of the power system I have for the hobby systems (7 segments of 240VAC at 20A each, one of which being used by a big airco), I noticed something. I did my best to physically separate the systems from eachother on the network, just to avoid massive burnouts if/when a single system goes BOOM on me. I use AUI ports and -cabling to (DELNI) repeaters, and from a DELNI (a "systems group" in my network), a single 10BaseFL link goes up to the fiber hub in the machine room, which handles all the other stuff etc. However... it just ocurred to me that even though I did that, I still have some sort of a "connection" through the main power lines (3x 500VAC @ 48A/ea) here, so, if an old 11/23 in a BA23 goes smokey on me, it still could kill my (quite expensive) production network stuff through the power system. Does anyone have (serious) ideas on how to fix this (short of requesting three separated power lines from the utilities.. they have a hard time dealing with me as it is ;-) Thanks, Fred (slightly worried) From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jul 29 17:41:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Quantum Lightning 540 AT Hard Disk In-Reply-To: <20030729115821.8956.qmail@web60004.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030729115821.8956.qmail@web60004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, Roger Bisson wrote: > I have an old Quantum Lightning 540 AT hard disk containing some data I > want to retrieve. The drive itself was removed from a computer some > years ago (about 7 or 8 years), working as far as I remember. > > However, now, having tried to install the drive in a more modern machine > to archive the data to CDR, the drive while recognized by the machine > and the drive itself spinning up and apparently working returns a "hard > disk read failure" error. > > Trawling the web, I found a short thread entitled "HD repair techniques" > on cctalk. Like the original author of this thread, I too have a drive > that contains data that is perhaps not worth the hundreds of pounds > (GBP) that professional data recovery entails but wouldn't mind > recovering the data all the same. > > Can anybody point me in the direction of any good information regarding > the testing/diagnosis/repair of head-disk-assembly problems? First off, don't rush to "repair" or open up the HDA. From the sounds of it, the drive itself may not be the problem at all. Do you remember if your computer used an enhanced or caching type hard drive controller? Many of these controllers allocated space on the drive differently than an industry standard ATA controller did. Do you know if you had access to the full 540MB of drive space? DOS had a limit of ~527MB back then, but it was often worked around by using a 3rd party ATA controller with LBA. Maybe your newer system is trying to use LBA, when the drive was formatted without it? If you used a plain ATA controller, with or without LBA, there is also a possibility that the drive was originally formatted with a different CHS (cylinders/heads/sectors) than what the drive will report when it is auto-configured by a modern BIOS. -Toth From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Jul 29 17:49:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Looking for Sharp pens In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2d4ad2194c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message "Feldman, Robert" wrote: > A message dated 2003-06-28 at > http://fixyourownprinter.com/printer/new/10274.html offers them for sale. Hmm... Kenan Toker from Turkey. Yep, I got an email from him a few weeks ago. My bottomless pit of an inbox swallowed it though (!) Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | video mods, 10BaseT (i3 EtherLAN600), http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 8xCD, framegrabber, teletext Do not adjust your mind - it's a reality malfunction. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jul 29 18:42:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Tek 8002 system : some questions In-Reply-To: <7AB97327-C204-11D7-AEE3-000A9585D8F6@bluewin.ch> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030729193841.3c578c02@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:37 PM 7/29/03 +0200, you wrote: >I have a few questions on this old beast : > >Does it work with another terminal than the tek4024 ? I'd be surprised if it didn't. >What are default baudrates... Don't know. > >Are manuals online or available ? That will take some digging. I had a 8002 and gave it to Mike Haas and he also got another from Canada. I THINK I gave him some manuals and I think he also got some with the 2nd 8002. check with him, then start checking with the used manual merchants. I expect it's going to take time and work to get a decent set of manuals for this. Joe > > Any info welcome...... > > > Thanks, Jos From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jul 29 18:43:32 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: HP 1615 Logic Analyser In-Reply-To: <3F26C47C.90807@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030729193434.3c57eb1e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> John, They use the same probes as the HP 1600, 1601, 1605, 1607, 1610 LAs. I think there's a couple more models of the LAs that use them and there are some other HP items that also use them. They're quite common around here. Their part numbers are 10230b for the clock probe and 10231B for the six bit data probe. The wire leads and grabbers are a bit hard to get so don't pay much (anything IMO) for probes without the wire leads. Joe At 08:01 PM 7/29/03 +0100, you wrote: >I've just got an HP 1615 Logic Analyser on eBay for a few pounds, but >it doesn't come with probes. Now, HP probes occasionally show up on >eBay, too -- but which ones do I need for the 1615? Does anybody happen >to know, please? > >-- >John Honniball >coredump@gifford.co.uk From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Jul 29 21:03:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Power cabling advice? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > However... it just ocurred to me that even though I did that, I > still have some sort of a "connection" through the main power > lines (3x 500VAC @ 48A/ea) here, so, if an old 11/23 in a BA23 > goes smokey on me, it still could kill my (quite expensive) > production network stuff through the power system. > > Does anyone have (serious) ideas on how to fix this (short of > requesting three separated power lines from the utilities.. they > have a hard time dealing with me as it is ;-) I think you are overreating. Keep the vintage stuff on a seperate breaker from the production stuff. If the PDP-11/23 "goes boom", the smaller breaker will trip first, and the other breakers, including the main one, will still be closed and happy. The other circuits and machines may notice a small dip in the power for a fraction of a second, but they could probably weather it. UPSs, surge protectors and a big old Sola isolation/regulating transformer would also be nice, but overkill. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From musicman38 at comcast.net Tue Jul 29 21:32:00 2003 From: musicman38 at comcast.net (musicman38) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:06 2005 Subject: Pet 2001 N16 Display Problem References: Message-ID: <01a201c35643$b7e76a60$0200a8c0@alico01.fl.comcast.net> I have a PET 2001, that displayed the same garbled screen after many years of storage.. What I did was remove the RAM chips from their sockets and reinserted them. I don't know if all 2001 models had plug in RAM chips, mine did however. Anyway to my surprise the PET booted and no more garbage or errors.. Worth a try.. Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: ; "Co." To: Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 4:29 PM Subject: Pet 2001 N16 Display Problem > I have a Pet 2001 N16. When powered up, it displays a screen full > of garbled characters. I read a message board post on http://www. > classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2003-January/014761.html that recommended > that I replace the 2114s (from bgmicro.com) to swap out the video > RAM. Any opinions/suggestions? Has anyone had a similar experience? > > > ???? D???@?? From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Jul 29 21:38:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 for sale Message-ID: <000001c3563c$43ac07c0$947ba8c0@p933> I've been contacted by a gentleman who is interested in selling an HX-20. He can be reached via email at katerad@earthlink.net. I think he wants around $50 for the machine, but don't quote me on that. I am just passing along this information and have nothing to do with the offer, the item or the seller. (insert other typical disclaimers here) Please contact Tom directly (katerad@earthlink.net) Good luck! Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum >> Have available for sale: >> >> 1----EPSON HX-20 >> w/ micro cassette drive >> printer >> expansion unit (H20 EU) >> case >> >> This is a very clean unit. Is this of interest to you? >> If so, can send picture. >> >> Thank you ! >> >> Tom Gaida From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Jul 29 21:41:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Future uncollectable computers... References: Message-ID: <0e6301c35643$97c8c260$710bdd40@oemcomputer> I have one of each in the collection (except for 2 different versions of the iMac). And they are pretty cool to look at and use. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 3:25 PM Subject: RE: Future uncollectable computers... > On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Ernest wrote: > > > Does the new Commodore-One count as vintage, or is it considered new? That > > is a system that I consider to be collectable already. Also the round little > > iMac with the flat screen. > > Not vintage, but like the eMate or the iMac or the G4 Cube (as examples) > it is definitely an "instant collectible" :) > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jul 29 22:56:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? In-Reply-To: <3F25C5F8.7070203@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jul 2003, Bob Shannon wrote: > But non-FAT based DOS's have been implemented, and once SQUEEZED, appear > to be just as efficient > as other schemes. Yes, fragmentation is an issue, but this is more > easily solved (via SQUEEZE) then the code > needed to maintain the FAT. Ok, so when it comes time to do a SQUEEZE, how long is it going to take, and on a sufficiently large drive with very large allocation units, how are you going to do an effective SQUEEZE with only 16K words? > Simplicity suggests that if its not needed, its not implemented. There is the possibility that this is being over-simplified. > I think there is a lot to be learned from vintage file systems like > TSS-8, RT-11, Northstar DOS, etc. Me too: how NOT to design an OS :) > There seems to be a real lack of any objective anatomical dissection of > different methods in print, at least in a > readable (approachable) form. This is proably the only place such a > discussion could ever take place, as so > few people new to file system internals ever develop new approaches. There have probably been dozens of books covering this topic written throughout the 1960s, 1970s and into the 1980s. One such title that comes up from my current catalog is titled _File Structures For On-line Systems_ by David Lefkovitz (1969). I can guarantee there are many more. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jul 29 23:04:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Quantum Lightning 540 AT Hard Disk In-Reply-To: <005001c355f2$5b0c86a0$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, TeoZ wrote: > The oldest IDE drive I have thats being used at all is a 500mb conner drive, > and it spins up and works fine on newer hardware. Make sure you using auto > detect in the bios or try changing the method your machine uses to read the > drive (LBA, 32 bit access, pio modes etc) That might be the problem. The drive may have been formatted under incorrect parameters. If this is the case, can the parameters be ascertained somehow? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jul 30 00:10:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Quantum Lightning 540 AT Hard Disk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F275276.2010600@mdrconsult.com> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, TeoZ wrote: > >>The oldest IDE drive I have thats being used at all is a 500mb conner drive, >>and it spins up and works fine on newer hardware. Make sure you using auto >>detect in the bios or try changing the method your machine uses to read the >>drive (LBA, 32 bit access, pio modes etc) > > That might be the problem. The drive may have been formatted under > incorrect parameters. If this is the case, can the parameters be > ascertained somehow? I'd try Spinrite on it. I don't recall offhand if it will determine effective geometry, but it would be the next most likely of any disk tool I've ever used. First most likely would be GNU/Linux sfdisk. Read the man page *carefully* first. Doc From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Jul 30 00:56:01 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Quantum Lightning 540 AT Hard Disk References: <3F275276.2010600@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <002e01c3565e$8c2bc860$347ca418@neo.rr.com> The older drives have the settings printed on the top of the drive cyl heads sectors etc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 1:07 AM Subject: Re: Quantum Lightning 540 AT Hard Disk > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, TeoZ wrote: > > > >>The oldest IDE drive I have thats being used at all is a 500mb conner drive, > >>and it spins up and works fine on newer hardware. Make sure you using auto > >>detect in the bios or try changing the method your machine uses to read the > >>drive (LBA, 32 bit access, pio modes etc) > > > > That might be the problem. The drive may have been formatted under > > incorrect parameters. If this is the case, can the parameters be > > ascertained somehow? > > I'd try Spinrite on it. I don't recall offhand if it will determine > effective geometry, but it would be the next most likely of any disk > tool I've ever used. > > First most likely would be GNU/Linux sfdisk. Read the man page > *carefully* first. > > > Doc From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jul 30 03:12:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Quantum Lightning 540 AT Hard Disk In-Reply-To: <002e01c3565e$8c2bc860$347ca418@neo.rr.com> References: <3F275276.2010600@mdrconsult.com> <002e01c3565e$8c2bc860$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, TeoZ wrote: > From: "Doc" > > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > > > That might be the problem. The drive may have been formatted under > > > incorrect parameters. If this is the case, can the parameters be > > > ascertained somehow? > > > > I'd try Spinrite on it. I don't recall offhand if it will determine > > effective geometry, but it would be the next most likely of any disk > > tool I've ever used. > > > > First most likely would be GNU/Linux sfdisk. Read the man page > > *carefully* first. > > The older drives have the settings printed on the top of the drive cyl > heads sectors etc True, and sometimes whats printed on the drive does not match what the drive reports to the BIOS. Of course, sometimes people would use settings from a book of hard drive settings, especially when the drive was already installed. The settings printed in such a book don't always match whats printed on the drive or what the drive reports to the BIOS. Yet another benefit of SCSI... -Toth From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Jul 30 04:52:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Power cabling advice? In-Reply-To: ; from waltje@pdp11.nl on Wed, Jul 30, 2003 at 00:24:44 %z References: Message-ID: <20030730084000.GF1381@oblina> On 2003.07.30 00:24 Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > However... it just ocurred to me that even though I did that, I > still have some sort of a "connection" through the main power > lines (3x 500VAC @ 48A/ea) here, so, if an old 11/23 in a BA23 > goes smokey on me, it still could kill my (quite expensive) > production network stuff through the power system. If you have a feed with 48 A breaker and then the power is split up to several segments with 20 A breakers, the 20 A breaker will shut off first if there is a failure. It is guaranteed that the smaler breaker will break first if there are two breakers in series and the shut off value of the biger breaker is at least 1.6 times bigger then the smaler breaker. At least in Germany. I don't think that you can damage an other machine via the power feed. You would have to pump a lot of power with a high voltage backward into the power feed to cause damage on other machines. Data lines like Ethernet, serial cables, ... are much more sensitive. But as you wrote you have a 10BaseFL link, hence perfect galvanic decoupling. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jul 30 05:32:01 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Quantum Lightning 540 AT Hard Disk In-Reply-To: References: <3F275276.2010600@mdrconsult.com> <002e01c3565e$8c2bc860$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <3F279DD1.1020906@mdrconsult.com> Tothwolf wrote: > On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, TeoZ wrote: >> >>The older drives have the settings printed on the top of the drive cyl >>heads sectors etc > > > True, and sometimes whats printed on the drive does not match what the > drive reports to the BIOS. Of course, sometimes people would use settings > from a book of hard drive settings, especially when the drive was already > installed. The settings printed in such a book don't always match whats > printed on the drive or what the drive reports to the BIOS. Not only that, but Quantum was the worst about mislabelling drives. I've seen several sub-1GB Quantum IDE drives with SCSI jumper settings on the label, or vice versa, and many with the wrong size and geometry. Doc From vance at neurotica.com Wed Jul 30 05:43:00 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Quantum Lightning 540 AT Hard Disk In-Reply-To: <3F279DD1.1020906@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, Doc wrote: > >>The older drives have the settings printed on the top of the drive cyl > >>heads sectors etc > > > > True, and sometimes whats printed on the drive does not match what the > > drive reports to the BIOS. Of course, sometimes people would use > > settings from a book of hard drive settings, especially when the drive > > was already installed. The settings printed in such a book don't > > always match whats printed on the drive or what the drive reports to > > the BIOS. > > Not only that, but Quantum was the worst about mislabelling drives. > I've seen several sub-1GB Quantum IDE drives with SCSI jumper settings > on the label, or vice versa, and many with the wrong size and geometry. So there isn't any reliable way of knowing the drive geometry on older IDE drives? Another reason for me to not use IDE whenever possible. I think the only machine I have that has IDE in it is my Powerbook. Peace... Sridhar From SPEDRAJA at ono.com Wed Jul 30 07:43:01 2003 From: SPEDRAJA at ono.com (Sergio Pedraja Cabo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Places to acquire s100 items Message-ID: Hi all. I'm thinking in purchase one IMSAI Series Two. I should like to locate some s100 items (boards, etc) to use with it. Somebody knows where ? Greetings Sergio From dogas at bellsouth.net Wed Jul 30 08:53:01 2003 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Tek 8002 system : some questions References: <3.0.6.16.20030729193841.3c578c02@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <004301c3569f$f82f63f0$85db3fd0@DOMAIN> From: Joe > Don't know. > > > >Are manuals online or available ? > > That will take some digging. I had a 8002 and gave it to Mike Haas and > he also got another from Canada. I THINK I gave him some manuals and I > think he also got some with the 2nd 8002. check with him, then start > checking with the used manual merchants. I expect it's going to take time > and work to get a decent set of manuals for this. > Joe, I think Robertson got your 8002. You must be recalling those 4907 single and dual drives for the 4051 that also came my way. Wait, I did get the 1750A emulator card and docs from you for the 8002 though... My 8002 arrived from Canada with tons of manuals and software for the 6800 and 8080 emulators that were included, DOSes and Assemblers for each and more. But the drive connecting harness was badly damaged when shipped so it still hasn't seen new juice yet... I'll get this thing fixed as soon as I find the 1802 option though.... ;) The manuals have been boxed but I've been digging in that general direction for awhile now and should run across them pretty soon.... Check back shortly with me if nothing else turns up.. Cheers - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From vance at neurotica.com Wed Jul 30 09:26:00 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Places to acquire s100 items In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ebay, Hamfests, places like that. Every once in a while, scrappers get them. Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, Sergio Pedraja Cabo wrote: > Hi all. I'm thinking in purchase one IMSAI Series Two. > I should like to locate some s100 items (boards, etc) > to use with it. Somebody knows where ? > > Greetings > > Sergio From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Jul 30 11:23:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Places to acquire s100 items Message-ID: <200307301619.JAA04780@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Sergio Pedraja Cabo" > >Hi all. I'm thinking in purchase one IMSAI Series Two. >I should like to locate some s100 items (boards, etc) >to use with it. Somebody knows where ? > >Greetings > >Sergio > Ebay and swap meets. Dwight From r.stek at snet.net Wed Jul 30 12:19:00 2003 From: r.stek at snet.net (r.stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Altair font - anyone identify? Message-ID: <300703211.36925@webbox.com> I am attempting to make a reproduction name plate for an Altair 8800. I can try out various OCR-like fonts, but I was hoping that someone might have already identified the same or a similar font to the one used on the bottom of the front panel. If I can successfully do this, I'd certainly be willing to make them available to list members. Contest: who can come up with the cleverest place to put one of these OTHER than on the front of an Altair? Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From cb at mythtech.net Wed Jul 30 12:21:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Have any 387Sx-16's left? Message-ID: >I am a grad student at UC Berkeley and I could use one of your >387sx-16's on a project I am working on. If you still have some and can >spare one, I am in the mechanical engineering department at: I don't have any at this exact moment, but I may come across more of them in the future. Do you have a deadline by which you need the chips, or is it just something you want to get eventually? (ie: should I hang on to your address and let you know if/when I get more, or will it be too late and you won't want or need them anymore). -chris From cb at mythtech.net Wed Jul 30 12:44:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Have any 387Sx-16's left? Message-ID: woops, that was supposed to be offlist... sorry everyone. -chris From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jul 30 13:30:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Places to acquire s100 items In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030730142110.451fb9ee@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> E-bay. I'm not trying to be funny. The S-100 has pretty well disappeared from the hamfests and surplus and scrap places and everyone one that still has any of that stuff knows that's it's collectible so it's all pretty much only on E-bay now. IF you have something intersting to trade you might convince a collector to trade you some parts. If you watch E-bay regularly you can usually find some good deals. Joe At 02:40 PM 7/30/03 +0200, you wrote: >Hi all. I'm thinking in purchase one IMSAI Series Two. >I should like to locate some s100 items (boards, etc) >to use with it. Somebody knows where ? > >Greetings > >Sergio From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jul 30 13:32:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Tek 8002 system : some questions In-Reply-To: <004301c3569f$f82f63f0$85db3fd0@DOMAIN> References: <3.0.6.16.20030729193841.3c578c02@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030730142657.3c3f3476@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:39 AM 7/30/03 -0400, you wrote: >From: Joe > >> Don't know. >> > >> >Are manuals online or available ? >> >> That will take some digging. I had a 8002 and gave it to Mike Haas and >> he also got another from Canada. I THINK I gave him some manuals and I >> think he also got some with the 2nd 8002. check with him, then start >> checking with the used manual merchants. I expect it's going to take time >> and work to get a decent set of manuals for this. >> > >Joe, I think Robertson got your 8002. You're probably right. Steve asked me the other day if I wanted an 8002. He said that he thought i gave it to him. But I'm sure that I gave you some kind of old Tek system and I thought it was also a 8002. You must be recalling those 4907 >single and dual drives for the 4051 that also came my way. Wait, I did get >the 1750A emulator card and docs from you for the 8002 though... > >My 8002 arrived from Canada with tons of manuals and software for the 6800 >and 8080 emulators that were included, DOSes and Assemblers for each and >more. But the drive connecting harness was badly damaged when shipped so it >still hasn't seen new juice yet... I'll get this thing fixed as soon as I >find the 1802 option though.... ;) Good Luck! BTW I have some RCA 1802 docs that you might be intersted in. I'll try to call or E-mail you about them. > >The manuals have been boxed but I've been digging in that general direction >for awhile now and should run across them pretty soon.... Check back >shortly with me if nothing else turns up.. Glad to hear that you DO have some manuals. Guard them well! They're probably the only set around! Joe > >Cheers >- Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jul 30 14:39:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Alpha Micro 1000? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030730153751.3cb7f850@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Is anyone familar with this system? I can't find anything on AM's site and only one brief description on the net. I know it runs AMOS and has a 68000 CPU. This one has a 190 Mb hard drive and appears to have 4 Mb of RAM. It also has a PIICEON add-in card that adds 8 additional serial ports. It's also hanging up with a status code of 6 when I power it up. There' s no terminal attached so that MIGHT be the problem. I found a manula for a new AM system and it doesn't list a stat code of 6. Does anyone have a list of the codes for this system? Anybody know where I can find an Owner's or user's manual for this? Or what are the Video In, Video Out and Video I/O ports for? Joe From Innfogra at aol.com Wed Jul 30 14:48:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Alpha Micro 1000? Message-ID: In a message dated 7/30/03 12:40:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rigdonj@cfl.rr.com writes: > Anybody know where I can find an Owner's or user's manual for this? Or > what are the Video In, Video Out and Video I/O ports for? > Probably for a VCR backup tape unit. They used them quite a lot. Paxton Astoria From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jul 30 15:02:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Quantum Lightning 540 AT Hard Disk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, Doc wrote: > > > > True, and sometimes whats printed on the drive does not match what > > > the drive reports to the BIOS. Of course, sometimes people would use > > > settings from a book of hard drive settings, especially when the > > > drive was already installed. The settings printed in such a book > > > don't always match whats printed on the drive or what the drive > > > reports to the BIOS. > > > > Not only that, but Quantum was the worst about mislabelling drives. > > I've seen several sub-1GB Quantum IDE drives with SCSI jumper settings > > on the label, or vice versa, and many with the wrong size and > > geometry. > > So there isn't any reliable way of knowing the drive geometry on older > IDE drives? Another reason for me to not use IDE whenever possible. I > think the only machine I have that has IDE in it is my Powerbook. The most reliably way seems to be to always allow the system to auto-detect the drive's settings. Some enhanced or non-standard ATA controllers will still sometimes allocate space on the drive in a nonstandard way, so you still have to watch those. Of course this won't help for an old drive that someone is trying to recover data from... -Toth From spedraja at ono.com Wed Jul 30 15:42:00 2003 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Alpha Micro 1000? References: <3.0.6.16.20030730153751.3cb7f850@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000701c356da$1b03d0c0$0f02a8c0@cavorita.net> Sorry. I have one Banner Ad of this system from 198x. Is one of my first computing papers. There was one company long time closed here in Spain that marketed Alpha Micro machines. Nothing more. GReetings Sergio ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 3:37 PM Subject: Alpha Micro 1000? > Is anyone familar with this system? I can't find anything on AM's site > and only one brief description on the net. I know it runs AMOS and has a > 68000 CPU. This one has a 190 Mb hard drive and appears to have 4 Mb of > RAM. It also has a PIICEON add-in card that adds 8 additional serial ports. > It's also hanging up with a status code of 6 when I power it up. There' s > no terminal attached so that MIGHT be the problem. I found a manula for a > new AM system and it doesn't list a stat code of 6. Does anyone have a list > of the codes for this system? > > Anybody know where I can find an Owner's or user's manual for this? Or > what are the Video In, Video Out and Video I/O ports for? > > Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jul 30 16:03:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Alpha Micro 1000? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030730161142.453fcc66@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> INTERESTING! I never heard of that on a factory machine. Did it work satisfactorily? Joe At 03:44 PM 7/30/03 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 7/30/03 12:40:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >rigdonj@cfl.rr.com writes: > > >> Anybody know where I can find an Owner's or user's manual for this? Or >> what are the Video In, Video Out and Video I/O ports for? >> > >Probably for a VCR backup tape unit. They used them quite a lot. > >Paxton >Astoria From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Jul 30 16:08:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Alpha Micro 1000? References: <3.0.6.16.20030730153751.3cb7f850@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <000701c356da$1b03d0c0$0f02a8c0@cavorita.net> Message-ID: <01ce01c356de$261bf240$033310ac@kwcorp.com> many alpha micro systems also ran Pick, not just AMOS. You could specify which OS at time of order (we used to be a dealer for them) Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: SP To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 3:06 PM Subject: Re: Alpha Micro 1000? Sorry. I have one Banner Ad of this system from 198x. Is one of my first computing papers. There was one company long time closed here in Spain that marketed Alpha Micro machines. Nothing more. GReetings Sergio ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 3:37 PM Subject: Alpha Micro 1000? > Is anyone familar with this system? I can't find anything on AM's site > and only one brief description on the net. I know it runs AMOS and has a > 68000 CPU. This one has a 190 Mb hard drive and appears to have 4 Mb of > RAM. It also has a PIICEON add-in card that adds 8 additional serial ports. > It's also hanging up with a status code of 6 when I power it up. There' s > no terminal attached so that MIGHT be the problem. I found a manula for a > new AM system and it doesn't list a stat code of 6. Does anyone have a list > of the codes for this system? > > Anybody know where I can find an Owner's or user's manual for this? Or > what are the Video In, Video Out and Video I/O ports for? > > Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jul 30 16:10:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Alpha Micro 1000? In-Reply-To: <000701c356da$1b03d0c0$0f02a8c0@cavorita.net> References: <3.0.6.16.20030730153751.3cb7f850@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030730170310.453fdc32@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Sergio, Thanks for the reply. Does your ad give any details about the ssytem? AM is still in business here in the US and they have some manuals on-line but nothing about the AM-1000. Joe At 10:06 PM 7/30/03 +0200, you wrote: >Sorry. I have one Banner Ad of this system from 198x. Is one of my >first computing papers. There was one company long time closed >here in Spain that marketed Alpha Micro machines. Nothing more. > >GReetings > >Sergio > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 3:37 PM >Subject: Alpha Micro 1000? > > >> Is anyone familar with this system? I can't find anything on AM's site >> and only one brief description on the net. I know it runs AMOS and has a >> 68000 CPU. This one has a 190 Mb hard drive and appears to have 4 Mb of >> RAM. It also has a PIICEON add-in card that adds 8 additional serial >ports. >> It's also hanging up with a status code of 6 when I power it up. There' s >> no terminal attached so that MIGHT be the problem. I found a manula for a >> new AM system and it doesn't list a stat code of 6. Does anyone have a >list >> of the codes for this system? >> >> Anybody know where I can find an Owner's or user's manual for this? Or >> what are the Video In, Video Out and Video I/O ports for? >> >> Joe From spedraja at ono.com Wed Jul 30 16:17:00 2003 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10 Hard disk, NOS References: <1e4.e0bf490.2c5810bc@aol.com> Message-ID: <009601c356de$d8c01020$0f02a8c0@cavorita.net> Hi. What will you do finally with this item ? Do you know if it could be used with one PC XT or one S100 system ? In this case I could be interested in purchase it to you. I'll wait yor notices. Thanks and Greetings. Sergio ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 8:02 PM Subject: Epson QX-10 Hard disk, NOS > Surprisingly I have a New Comrex ComFiler Hard disk subsystem on eBay and it > doesn't even have one bid with seven hours to go. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2743819844&category=1247& > rd=1 > > New old stock (NOS) in it's original carton, instructions, circuit card for > the Epson QX-10 cables and an external 10 meg hard drive. > > Starting at $24.95 plus shipping which I think reasonable. > > Paxton > Astoria, OR 97103 From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jul 30 16:46:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Alpha Micro 1000? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030730153751.3cb7f850@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, Joe wrote: > Is anyone familar with this system? I can't find anything on AM's site > and only one brief description on the net. I know it runs AMOS and has a > 68000 CPU. This one has a 190 Mb hard drive and appears to have 4 Mb of > RAM. It also has a PIICEON add-in card that adds 8 additional serial ports. > It's also hanging up with a status code of 6 when I power it up. There' s > no terminal attached so that MIGHT be the problem. I found a manula for a > new AM system and it doesn't list a stat code of 6. Does anyone have a list > of the codes for this system? > > Anybody know where I can find an Owner's or user's manual for this? Or > what are the Video In, Video Out and Video I/O ports for? Hey Joe. I have a few of these systems, and a wall of documentation. When I first acquired one of these (I think it was the model 1000 as well) I checked around and found that they still had offices in business. So I e-mailed (or called? I can't remember...) one ofof them and the tech support guys were pretty cool. They gave me some basic information and said if I needed any help getting it running to let them know. Much later I was put in touch with one of last--if not the last--Alpha Micro service centers in California, right here in the SF Bay Area. Some new folks were moving into the offices where the AM office used to be and the AM guys just left everything (98% documentation and software). I pretty much cleaned out the office of everything of use, including a literal wall of documentation and some software on VHS (yes, the video ports are to connect to a VCR for not only backup purposes but also to bootstrap the system OS). I have manuals for both AMOS and Pick, plus hardware manuals for all their various models (1000, 1200, etc.) as well as the various interfaces for different subsystems (disk, tape, etc.). Since I owe you a few favors, let me know what you want and I'll make some photocopies. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From spedraja at ono.com Wed Jul 30 17:19:00 2003 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10 Hard disk, NOS References: <1e4.e0bf490.2c5810bc@aol.com> <009601c356de$d8c01020$0f02a8c0@cavorita.net> Message-ID: <010401c356e7$8f1a3780$0f02a8c0@cavorita.net> Oops, this was private. Sorry. Sergio ----- Original Message ----- From: "SP" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 11:08 PM Subject: Re: Epson QX-10 Hard disk, NOS > Hi. What will you do finally with this item ? Do you know if it could be > used > with one PC XT or one S100 system ? In this case I could be interested > in purchase it to you. > > I'll wait yor notices. Thanks and Greetings. > > Sergio > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 8:02 PM > Subject: Epson QX-10 Hard disk, NOS > > > > Surprisingly I have a New Comrex ComFiler Hard disk subsystem on eBay and > it > > doesn't even have one bid with seven hours to go. > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2743819844&category=1247& > > rd=1 > > > > New old stock (NOS) in it's original carton, instructions, circuit card > for > > the Epson QX-10 cables and an external 10 meg hard drive. > > > > Starting at $24.95 plus shipping which I think reasonable. > > > > Paxton > > Astoria, OR 97103 From spectre at floodgap.com Wed Jul 30 18:52:00 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Alpha Micro 1000? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030730161142.453fcc66@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from Joe at "Jul 30, 3 04:11:42 pm" Message-ID: <200307310000.RAA16492@floodgap.com> > > > Anybody know where I can find an Owner's or user's manual for this? Or > > > what are the Video In, Video Out and Video I/O ports for? > > Probably for a VCR backup tape unit. They used them quite a lot. > INTERESTING! I never heard of that on a factory machine. Did it work > satisfactorily? The Salvation Army (used to?) use(s) them as their mainframe backend and they had VCR backup units. Worked just fine. I managed to find at least one back-door into AMOS in their menu system, which did not endear me to the system administrator. *grin* -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- God is the tangential point between zero and infinity. -- Alfred Jarry ----- From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jul 30 19:04:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: anybody need MANUALS for a Storage Tech Tape Subsystem? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030730195204.453f1e82@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Went scrounging today and one of the things that I picked up is a FAT three ring binder full of Field Engineering manuals for the Storage Technology Corp model 1960 Series Tape Subsystem. Includes the FE Maintenance manual, Illustrated Parts Catalog, Part Number Compatiblity Listing (breaks down ALL of the engineerng changes and their PN effectivity), something called a Master Machine Level Listing, a User's Guide for 1900 Diagnostics, a pamplet about "Communicating with the Monitor", an OEM Maintenance Reference Guide and one more book that's missing it's title page. Looks like everything you could ever need for the STC 1960 Tape system. Everything in a three ring binder marked "STC Field Engineering". The docs are a good three inches thick. Anybody want it? Preference given to those that can archive/scan it and make it available to others. You pay the postage. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jul 30 19:07:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Alpha Micro 1000? In-Reply-To: <200307310000.RAA16492@floodgap.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030730161142.453fcc66@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030730200429.452fcc28@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:00 PM 7/30/03 -0700, Cameron wrote: >> > > Anybody know where I can find an Owner's or user's manual for this? Or >> > > what are the Video In, Video Out and Video I/O ports for? > >> > Probably for a VCR backup tape unit. They used them quite a lot. > >> INTERESTING! I never heard of that on a factory machine. Did it work >> satisfactorily? > >The Salvation Army (used to?) use(s) them as their mainframe backend and >they had VCR backup units. Worked just fine. I managed to find at least >one back-door into AMOS in their menu system, which did not endear me to >the system administrator. *grin* I'm glad to hear that they can be gotten into. I was worried about that. I hope to find out tomorrow if it works, still has SW on the drive and if it will boot. Joe > >-- >---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com >-- God is the tangential point between zero and infinity. -- Alfred Jarry ----- From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Wed Jul 30 19:34:01 2003 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: PDP-11 Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 (Originally Produced by Tim Shoppa) Message-ID: <3F28630C.C8B4871C@compsys.to> The last two times I posted this, another person contacted me either for help or to request the CDs. This will be the last time for about 4 months unless more people reply. In regard to the Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 that Tim Shoppa originally produced: I am in the middle of finishing a third (very small) batch of CDs and could easily add a few additional copies. If you wish to be added to the list, please respond immediately. Otherwise, this is likely to be the last time for at least a few months. I will be making all copies of the CD images from: ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/cd-images/ http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/ http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RSX-11/ Since not everyone has both a high speed internet connection and a CD burner, I thought it would be helpful to make them available. If you have both requirements and are using Windows 98 SE / Nero Burning, I can help with the details if you don't know how to burn a CD from an "Image File". I have even been able to produce a label for each CD that is close to the original label from Tim Shoppa, although since they were scanned (THANK YOU FOR THE HELP), they are not perfect. They are available at $ 6 / $ 10 / $ 14 for 1 / 2 / 3 CDs. In addition, I understand that Memorex Black CD-Rs have a longer shelf life and are available at Business Depot. If anyone wants those instead, add $ 1 for each CD that you are requesting. Thus those amounts are $ 7 / $ 12 / $ 17 Please contact me directly for my snail mail address. I picked up some Memorex Black CD-R blanks and started on the copies for those who have already requested that a Black CD-R be used. Please include your mailing address!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In general, I will regard any funds you send as a gift so that if anyone really can't afford the CDs, please state why that is so. Outside of the US, probably about $ 2 should be sufficient for extra postage. All amounts are in US dollars. Please ask if you are not in the US. No point in converting twice. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From john37p2 at earthlink.net Wed Jul 30 20:09:00 2003 From: john37p2 at earthlink.net (John Hannahs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Tek 466 Message-ID: <3F25679C.1080006@earthlink.net> Have you any idea of how I can get schematics for Tek 466 scope? I see you have one and if I can't find schematics I might as well sell the thing. Regards, john Hannahs Corrales, NM From Degnan at degnanco.net Wed Jul 30 20:12:53 2003 From: Degnan at degnanco.net (Degnan@degnanco.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: PET 2001 16 N Mystery Message-ID: I wish to pose this question with the hope that there is someone else who has had the same thing happen to them, and/or can suggest a cause/fix.. I have a Commodore PET 2001 16 N. Whenever I try to write or read from tape (using 1530 drive) the computer freezes up and I am forced to turn off/on. After powering the unit back on, the screen is filled with garbled characters. Turing off/on does not fix. However if I wait a day or two later the computer is OK and the garbled characters no longer appear. I have reproduced this series of events twice and again the computer "fixes itself." I do not want to try again for fear of permanently ruining the machine. Any ideas about what causes this? Anyone had this happen to them? From jfoust at foust.org Wed Jul 30 20:15:54 2003 From: jfoust at foust.org (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Fwd: More stuff Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030728181039.02f8be00@dns2.gojefferson.com> >Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:25:18 -0600 >From: Eldon Vore >To: John Foust >Subject: More stuff > >[...] just to ask if you have any interest in Datapoint computer peripherals? My friend Bob Saturday was cleaning out his storage room and found a Datapoint dual 8" floppy drive box, with two god awful heavy power supplies, and two Shugart drives plus associated electronics. The box is 24x21 1/2x6 1/2 inches. It weighs 70 lbs. There seems to be a lot of litigation going on involving Datapoint, formerly Computer terminals, Inc., I think. Any way, if you have an interest let me know or I guess the next stop for them in the county dump. Eldon Vore, jvore@acsol.net. From 2dancers at themacisp.net Wed Jul 30 20:19:03 2003 From: 2dancers at themacisp.net (Stephen Ashton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Nettrek Message-ID: I have NetTrek on my Mac se. Do you still want a copy? Stephen From k_m34 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 30 20:22:03 2003 From: k_m34 at yahoo.com (Jon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: KC Computer Swap Shop? Message-ID: <20030728233414.83214.qmail@web41102.mail.yahoo.com> If you're still in town, be sure to go by Surplus Exchange! They get all kinds of cool stuff, and there's usually some really cool geek types in there browsing around. Jon. From jakef at mrF.Freek.NET Wed Jul 30 20:33:17 2003 From: jakef at mrF.Freek.NET (Jake-F) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: apple corvus drive Message-ID: <20030728231602.N3999-100000@E-toc> Hi, I saw you post on a list about a corvus harddriver for an apple, do you still have it, or could you pust me in contact with how has it now? I have the driver but need the software, and have been looking for it off and on for a year. thanks jake-F From jkersey at scoab.com Wed Jul 30 20:36:31 2003 From: jkersey at scoab.com (James Kersey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: NeXT Cable Message-ID: <477A2992-C1F5-11D7-A8FB-000A956CC864@scoab.com> Hi, I saw your posting on a mail archive about having the cable that goes from a NeXTStation to the monitor, you wouldn't happen to still have this would you? Thanks, and sorry for the intrusion, Jim -- Jim Kersey Scoab Interactive http://www.scoab.com From larry at laurelnet.com Wed Jul 30 20:39:32 2003 From: larry at laurelnet.com (Larry Laurel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Alpha Micro 1000? Message-ID: <1cd82f87ea417b9e80d0c513dbc8a67316e84de2@bodekandrhodes.com> Joe, The AM systems did not detect the presence of a terminal, so this would not inhibit booting. IIRC, the six is not a six, it is a lower case B (for "booting"). It is probably looking for directory structure and a monitor file on the disk. You can use any VCR on the video in/out ports, but unless you have one of the AM VideoTrax[1] VCRs you will have to manually press "Play", "Record", etc.. I think I have one of these laying around, but when I tried to use it as a plain ol' VCR a few years back it didn't work. I think I can still get in touch with someone who is a walking tech reference for all things AlphaMicro. If you like, I will try to contact him and see if he will talk to you. Let me know. Larry [1] The VideoTrax was a Zenith unit modified by AM to get the transport control signals from the computer. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Joe Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 3:38 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Alpha Micro 1000? Is anyone familar with this system? I can't find anything on AM's site and only one brief description on the net. I know it runs AMOS and has a 68000 CPU. This one has a 190 Mb hard drive and appears to have 4 Mb of RAM. It also has a PIICEON add-in card that adds 8 additional serial ports. It's also hanging up with a status code of 6 when I power it up. There' s no terminal attached so that MIGHT be the problem. I found a manula for a new AM system and it doesn't list a stat code of 6. Does anyone have a list of the codes for this system? Anybody know where I can find an Owner's or user's manual for this? Or what are the Video In, Video Out and Video I/O ports for? Joe From jrice54 at charter.net Wed Jul 30 21:53:00 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: NeXT Cable In-Reply-To: <477A2992-C1F5-11D7-A8FB-000A956CC864@scoab.com> References: <477A2992-C1F5-11D7-A8FB-000A956CC864@scoab.com> Message-ID: <3F28851D.5070708@charter.net> I still have several of them. Want one? James James Kersey wrote: > Hi, > > I saw your posting on a mail archive about having the cable that goes > from a NeXTStation to the monitor, you wouldn't happen to still have > this would you? > > Thanks, and sorry for the intrusion, > Jim > > > -- > > Jim Kersey > Scoab Interactive > http://www.scoab.com > -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jul 30 22:26:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Tek 466 In-Reply-To: <3F25679C.1080006@earthlink.net> References: <3F25679C.1080006@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jul 2003, John Hannahs wrote: > Have you any idea of how I can get schematics for Tek 466 scope? I see > you have one and if I can't find schematics I might as well sell the > thing. You might try the TekScopes making list over at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TekScopes/ -Toth From wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu Wed Jul 30 23:33:00 2003 From: wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu (Martin Scott Goldberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: IMSAI Restoration Suggestions? In-Reply-To: <200307281902.MAA03133@clulw009.amd.com> from "Dwight K. Elvey" at Jul 28, 2003 12:02:26 PM Message-ID: <200307310414.h6V4EOBF022937@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> Dwight says: >Hi > It sounds like it is missing the processor card. Still, it may >have one but it doesn't interface with the front panel. The only >signals that run through the ribbon are data signals. All of >the rest go through the bus. This means that if you don't need >the ability to used that readouts of the panel, you can do >things like reset and run without the ribbon. Check to see >if there is some other processor card there. > I see original 8080 cards on ebay often but there were many >second source Z80 cards with the ribbon cable connector made >as well. I see these very often on ebay. Just keep an eye out. I've seen the 8080 ones every so often, but they're usually out of my price range. > >> >>2) The people (the university janitorial staff) that were throwing it out, >>cut off the power cord. Hence there is a stub of a cord connected to the >>power supply now running out the back. > > So, install a new cord. I was wondering if there was an easy way that doesn't involve soldering, but I talked to the people at IMSAI and found out there isn't. I've never soldered before, so I'll have to save up and get a kit first. > >> >> >>I'm basicly looking for any help/suggestions in how to indentify the cards >>and what I can do to fix the other two problems. Thanks! > > Take pictures. Put them on a web page. Note any text found on boards. >Dwight As I mentioned, the cards are in there pretty tight and that's the problem with identifying them, it has nothing to do with taking pictures, etc. etc. which are obvious steps. They don't do me any good snapping in half. Marty From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Jul 31 00:32:55 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: Simplest (practical) file system? References: <20030729020444.871D0140D49D@swift.conman.org> Message-ID: <3F287B56.2080501@tiac.net> Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > > I have a few questions then. 1) What is the smallest amount of data that >can be transferred? The largest amount? Any restrictions on data >placement? (for instance, on old PCs, you could only use the lower 1M (16M >for 286 or better) of RAM, the smallest amount was 512 bytes, largest 64k >(128k for 286 or better) but you could not cross a 64k boundary) How much >space can you set aside for disk buffering? > 1. The smallest ammount of data read or written to disk is 1024 words. This value is used due to the HP 1000's paged memory design on all CPU's, as well as the virtual memory scheme on the late model 21MX processors. All disk drivers 'translate' hardware tracks and sectors into 1024 word 'blocks', so all O/S level disk address calculations are indentical to VM page address calculations. (in fact, they are the very same routines) Data is always word-aligned, although 21MX CPU's do support byte (limited) addressing. As for 'placement' issues, HP's can only 'see' the current 1024 word 'page', and page zero, not unlike a 16-bit PDP-8 with larger pages and extra registers. There are only 32 pages at a time, but you can have 2 mappings of physical memory (up to 1024 K words) to logical memory (the 32 pages). Transfers to and from disk do not need to be block boundry aligned. The current plan (quickly evolving) is to support two disk buffers, each of 1024 words. Only two files can be attached at one time without thrashing, but a rather unique method of saving the file access pointer for each file in the directory structure. This was a file can be opened, accessed, then closed, and re-opened at the point of last access + 1, or you can open the file at the start and seek to any point in the tranditional method. >>I think people had to think their software designs through more >>carefully when they only has 32K. Now that >>a machine with 32 meg is frowned upon, file systems have become a very >>different thing in terms of implementation. >> > > Another question: about how big do you expect the average file to be? >And what type of files do you expect there to be? > Your getting to the real issues here! First, the average file size, I do not beleive we really know at this point. Lets look at the file types first, and then look at the relative file sizes. The first, and most primative file type the O/S understands is an ABS binary image. This is a variable length string of 8-bit bytes in a blocked, raw binary format with checksums and block addresses. These images describe an absolute addressed binary image which cannot hold more than 32K words. So the maximum practical ABS file size is somewhere around 75 kb. But ABS images must be processed on the fly, during load time, so DMA is not an option. The result is that ABS files are not a practical disk format. But ABS is the format HPdistributed their early software in (like HP Basic, etc). ABS is really a paper-tape format, best used with hardware emulators as ultra-fast boot devices. Once an ABS image is loaded into memory, it can be saved directly to disk in a raw binary format for fast DMA transfers. These ram binary image files are never longer than 32K words. This is the disk boot format. So once you boot either an ABS image from a paper tape reader emulator, or a raw binary file from a disk device and you have the programming language / operating system running we have a bare-bones system with free memory. At this point you can load IPL source code into the comand line interpreter and 'compile' definitions in the dictionary to provide new keywords for hardware device drivers, floating point package, or other optional and customized functions to taylor the running image for your application. So once the engine is loaded into memory and running it needs to read a series of 'library' files. These are ASCII IPL source code files and are generally a few K bytes at most. It may be practical to place many named definitions inside one disk 'file', and then call them by name from a common library file. Of course we want to support general data files for the programmers use at well. > > -spc (Interesting problem ... ) From donm at cts.com Thu Jul 31 00:51:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: NeXT Cable In-Reply-To: <477A2992-C1F5-11D7-A8FB-000A956CC864@scoab.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, James Kersey wrote: > I saw your posting on a mail archive about having the cable that goes > from a NeXTStation to the monitor, you wouldn't happen to still have > this would you? > > Thanks, and sorry for the intrusion, Hello Jim, I sold off the older of the cables, but still have two of the 4536-00 ones. These are referred to as the ADB cables, but apparently will do both ADB and non/ADB. I will sell them for $20 each shipped CONUS. - don From wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu Thu Jul 31 01:59:01 2003 From: wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu (Martin Scott Goldberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:07 2005 Subject: IMSAI Restoration Suggestions? In-Reply-To: <200307281902.MAA03133@clulw009.amd.com> from "Dwight K. Elvey" at Jul 28, 2003 12:02:26 PM Message-ID: <200307310656.h6V6uL94022072@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> I did have another question regarding the serial number - is there a way to tell the year/release/how early in the series from it? The Serial Number is 1006900 There's a "IMSAI 8080 Rev. A" on the card slot board as well. And it's wired for 60Hz 120v. I did manage to finally get the cards out, and they are the following: two Godbout 8K Econoram II's one 4k from "S.D. Sales Co. (c) 1976" (anyone ever hear of them?) one Cromemco 8k Bytesaver board (with one Eprom in one of the eprom slots). Marty From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jul 31 04:14:00 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:08 2005 Subject: Best way to Sell Old, Used Software and SW/dev Books w/little Collectible Value? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030731015455.02b934b0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 10:29 PM 7/27/03 -0400, Don Wallace wrote: >I have a mountain of dated (late 80s - early 90s vintage) and probably >non-collectible software packages and books that it seems to me would >be a waste to consign to a landfill. > >I mean stuff like: > >Clipper 5.2 >Corel Draw (Win 3.1) Version 4 >Quattro Pro for DOS >Ami Pro for Win 3.1 >Star Trek Screen Saver (ca. 1992) >Borland C++ 3.1 for Windows and DOS with Application Frameworks Nothing beats making a complete list of what you have, and giving your general location in hopes of a local sale. From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Jul 31 04:43:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:08 2005 Subject: Best way to Sell Old, Used Software and SW/dev Books w/little Collectible Value? References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030731015455.02b934b0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <018b01c35747$7e25b200$347ca418@neo.rr.com> Why do I get the feeling this guy was just posting to harvest valid emails? Hope I am wrong ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 4:56 AM Subject: Re: Best way to Sell Old, Used Software and SW/dev Books w/little Collectible Value? > At 10:29 PM 7/27/03 -0400, Don Wallace wrote: > > > >I have a mountain of dated (late 80s - early 90s vintage) and probably > >non-collectible software packages and books that it seems to me would > >be a waste to consign to a landfill. > > > >I mean stuff like: > > > >Clipper 5.2 > >Corel Draw (Win 3.1) Version 4 > >Quattro Pro for DOS > >Ami Pro for Win 3.1 > >Star Trek Screen Saver (ca. 1992) > >Borland C++ 3.1 for Windows and DOS with Application Frameworks > > > Nothing beats making a complete list of what you have, and giving your > general location in hopes of a local sale. From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Thu Jul 31 04:49:01 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:08 2005 Subject: Best way to Sell Old, Used Software and SW/dev Books w/little Collectible Value? Message-ID: I don't think I'm exactly local to you, but if you wouldn't mind selling via mail, please contact me offlist at ETILLMAN@satx.rr.com or edward.tillman@valero.com. I have a 1992 DEC Slimline 486/33DX that'd probably just love those apps! (Especially the Star Trek screen saver!) On that system, I'm DOS 6.22, WIndows 3.1, Office 4.0. Cheers! Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, Texas, USA Office: (210)592-3110, Fax (210)592-2048 Email: edward.tillman@valero.com -----Original Message----- From: Mike Ford [mailto:mikeford@socal.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 3:57 AM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Best way to Sell Old, Used Software and SW/dev Books w/little Collectible Value? At 10:29 PM 7/27/03 -0400, Don Wallace wrote: >I have a mountain of dated (late 80s - early 90s vintage) and probably >non-collectible software packages and books that it seems to me would >be a waste to consign to a landfill. > >I mean stuff like: > >Clipper 5.2 >Corel Draw (Win 3.1) Version 4 >Quattro Pro for DOS >Ami Pro for Win 3.1 >Star Trek Screen Saver (ca. 1992) >Borland C++ 3.1 for Windows and DOS with Application Frameworks Nothing beats making a complete list of what you have, and giving your general location in hopes of a local sale. From skidmore at worldvenue.org Thu Jul 31 08:09:00 2003 From: skidmore at worldvenue.org (Barry Skidmore) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:08 2005 Subject: Help with RT-11 'Split' Utility Message-ID: <1059618597.1458.296.camel@mail.worldvenue.org> I am having problems with the unsupported 'split' utility on a PDP-11/23+ running RT-11 5.03 I am trying to split a 35000 block file into 3 files of similar sizes. I understand that you use octal values for block boundaries. Here is the command line that I have been using unsuccessfully: The octal value of 35000 is 104270. .split bak1.dsk,bak2.dsk,bak3.dsk=jul28.dsk/b:34757:69513 (where 69513 = 104270-34757) However, I receive the following error: ?SPLIT-E-Invalid command I need some help on how to specify the block boundaries. Thanks, Barry -- Barry Skidmore From jkersey at scoab.com Thu Jul 31 08:11:33 2003 From: jkersey at scoab.com (James Kersey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:08 2005 Subject: NeXT Cable In-Reply-To: <3F288810.90706@charter.net> Message-ID: <329554A0-C331-11D7-A8FB-000A956CC864@scoab.com> Hello, Sorry about that, I didn't realize I was posting to a list! :-) I actually sent off an order Wednesday morning to Black Hole Inc. for a monitor cable, keyboard, and mouse... My thanks to everyone who responded. Jim -- Jim Kersey Scoab Interactive http://www.scoab.com From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Thu Jul 31 08:49:00 2003 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:08 2005 Subject: Help with RT-11 'Split' Utility References: <1059618597.1458.296.camel@mail.worldvenue.org> Message-ID: <3F291D5C.406B4A9C@compsys.to> >Barry Skidmore wrote: > I am having problems with the unsupported 'split' utility on a > PDP-11/23+ running RT-11 5.03 > I am trying to split a 35000 block file into 3 files of similar sizes. > I understand that you use octal values for block boundaries. Here is > the command line that I have been using unsuccessfully: > The octal value of 35000 is 104270. > .split bak1.dsk,bak2.dsk,bak3.dsk=jul28.dsk/b:34757:69513 > (where 69513 = 104270-34757) > However, I receive the following error: > ?SPLIT-E-Invalid command > I need some help on how to specify the block boundaries. > Thanks, > Barry > Barry Skidmore Jerome Fine replies: I looked at the arguments for SPLIT and you are correct, but unfortunately, the octal arithmetic: 47311 = 104270 - 34757 seems to be the problem, aside from the fact that an octal value can not include the digits 8 or 9. When you posed this question on alt.sys.pdp11, I noticed that you also received the error message: ?Split-E-Input error This would probably be due to a bad block somewhere in the last portion of the "JUL28.DSK" file. Finding that block will not be impossible, but when you do so, there are methods to copy the bad block it can be recovered by repeated attempts to read it ONE block at a time. That attempt can sometimes be accomplished by: MOUNT LD0: JUL28.DSK/NOWRITE COPY/DEVICE/IGNORE LD0: DU1: Finding the actual block that is bad is not trivial, but BINCOM can help if you then do a binary search when comparing the portions of LD0: which can be read. If you don't understand, please ask! I presume that you have more than ONE RT-11 partition to work with although your sample syntax does not demonstrate that possibility. I presume that since every RT-11 partition has a MAXIMUM of 65536 blocks and placing all 3 portions of a 35000 block file on the same RT-11 partition would require 70000 blocks - which exceeds that capacity of the RT-11 partition. Thus, even if you had not encountered a bad block in the "JUL28.DSK" file, there would have been insufficient space to output the last portion. If you have any other RT-11 questions or require more help, please ask. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From roger161uk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jul 31 09:47:00 2003 From: roger161uk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Roger=20Bisson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:08 2005 Subject: Quantum Lightning 540 AT Hard Disk In-Reply-To: <20030729180723.96068.qmail@web21101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030731144315.50982.qmail@web60006.mail.yahoo.com> Firstly - thanks for the advice, folks. I'll try to apply some of this. The drive spins up. And it "rattles" the heads upon startup - presumably positioning itself over cylinder 0 (or whatever). The disk wasn't being detected at all on the test machine, but when tried on a different (older) machine the disk was detected. I personally have never seen "conflicts" between host controllers and ATA disk drives. I have tried diagnostics on the drive using Maxtor (new owner of Quantum) PowerMax. It says that the drive is all okay except for a non-existent partition table. When I use Active Partition Recovery (demo version), it shows the sectors of as being all zeroes. As a result, I'm not entirely sure whether the disk does actually contain only zeroes in these sectors, whether the heads might have inadvertently written zeroes to the disk somehow or whether the heads are just giving poor information. I would assume that some degree of error checking is done by the drive, but also assume that it is something like parity checking in which case all zeroes is viewed as being correct from the drive electronics point of view. If the heads are working, then it is perhaps a case of either the heads are being lined up poorly. Do these things need calibration? I personally doubt this as one of the main advantages of the voicecoil design compared to stepper motor design is the ability of the drive to self-calibrate. You are correct in saying that the controller boards can be swapped, although the model and revision numbers have to match: Maxtor sent me a confirmation of "compatible drive electronics" and it appears that to swap the electronics I have to find another Lightning, although I suspect that if the heads need replacing I can perhaps get away with using the actuator/heads/voicecoil from a "related" drive such as the Prodrive LPS. (The Lightning is a Prodrive LT). These things should be readily available, but I will probably have to lurk on ebay for a while to find one. At this stage, I am wary of doing too much to the drive without at least testing whether it is the heads or the electronics that are at fault. Does anybody know how to diagnose head faults? Do HD manufacturers make service manuals available? Surely they must give/sell them to HD recovery facilities? Thanks, Roger --- Jules Richardson wrote: > > I have an old Quantum Lightning 540 AT hard disk > ... > > However, now, having tried to install the drive in > a > > more modern machine to archive the data to CDR, > the > > drive while recognized by the machine and the > drive > > itself spinning up and apparently working returns > a > > "hard disk read failure" error. > > Well it has drive to the spindle motor by the sounds > of it. Whether the head > assembly is intact is another matter. > > I think you can swap the boards on these things and > expect them to still work - > so using the combination of your chassis / motor / > platter assembly and the > logic board off a good drive might be enough - > unless it is a fault in the head > assembly. > > I have a Prodrive LPS 540AT in front of me right now > which is likely the same > thing as a Lightning. There seems to be just the one > ribbon cable connecting > the logic board to everything so a swap wouldn't be > tricky and might cure > things. Those drives used to be everywhere at one > point so finding one > shouldn't be too hard. > > Do double-check your drive cabling and BIOS settings > (assuming it's a PC you're > hooking up to) etc. - modern PC's seem to have a > few billion settings for the > disks and probably think you're using a new drive; > they may make incorrect > assumptions about data rates etc. > > > Can anybody point me in the direction of any good > > information regarding the testing/diagnosis/repair > of > > head-disk-assembly problems? > > I know Western Digital used to release diagnostic > utilities for their drives > and held them on their website; there may be similar > Quantum ones floating > around. > > cheers > > Jules > > ===== > Backward conditioning: putting saliva in a dog's > mouth in an attempt to make a bell ring. > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? > Get the FREE Yahoo! > Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Jul 31 12:57:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:08 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 tinkering In-Reply-To: <3F102004.3070802@citem.org> Message-ID: <3F2973F1.20488.4A7D1E84@localhost> > We did some tinkering with our IBM 5100 the other day with results which > might be of interest. > 10 a = 0 > 20 print a, a*a, sqr(a) > 30 a = a + 1 > 40 if a < 100 goto 20 > 50 stop > The 5100 seems about 30% faster on though with the following program: > 10 a = 0 > 20 b = a*a > 25 c = sqr(a) > 30 a = a + 1 > 40 if a < 100 goto 20 > 50 stop > So it seems it is the display which slows it down. Well, to some extend. To my experiance it's rather the PET who slowed down the programm. The PET had realy one of the slowest BASIC interpreters / Systems around at that time. An Apple II did usualy outperform it by some 30-50% with exactly the same coding. Gruss H. And back from KFest. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL Thu Jul 31 13:40:00 2003 From: CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL (Corda Albert J DLVA) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:08 2005 Subject: Emulex SC04 controller... what kind of disk does it talk to? Message-ID: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16DB3@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> Hey guys, Just picked up an Emulex SC04 disk controller (ebay item). I thoughtit was a Qbus SCSI (did a prelim. deja search, and the one note I came across led me to believe this). Apparently I was wrong... the part numberfor the controller is SC0410201-LXB, and (I believe, but I couldbe wrong) this maps to the .pdf on AEK's site: http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/emulex/SC0451001-A_SC04C_Jan82.pdf This manual provides a pinout and refers to the disk interface as an ANSI X3T9/1226 interface. This doesn't google to anything useful, however I found an identical pinout list which refers to an ANSI X3.101 interface. Again, I don't recognize this at all. It's definitely not SCSI (if this is the correct manual) and doesn't seem to be SMD... Perhaps I am just blind here... anyone recognize this puppy? For reference, the ebay page w/picture is still available... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2743862622 -al- -acorda@1bigred.com From aek at spies.com Thu Jul 31 13:50:00 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:08 2005 Subject: Emulex SC04 controller... what kind of disk does it talk to? Message-ID: <200307311849.h6VInPhD003668@spies.com> anyone recognize this puppy? -- yup.. ANSI 8" interface I was VERY happy someone outbid me on it when I discovered what it was.. If someone has a paper copy of the X3.101 spec, i'd like to add it to the archives on spies. It appears to be based on the Shugart/Quantum 8" drive standard but on a single 50 pin connector instead of a 50 and 26. From CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL Thu Jul 31 14:07:01 2003 From: CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL (Corda Albert J DLVA) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:08 2005 Subject: Emulex SC04 controller... what kind of disk does it talk to? Message-ID: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16DB4@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> Actually, if I had known you had a bid in on it, I wouldn't have bid against you... Because of my cr*ppy phone connection (no dsl/cable here) I use an online bidding service, so when I find an item, I just register it with the bidding service and forget about it... they email me at the end of the auction to let me know if I've won or lost... But to get back on topic, I can then assume that this was one of those flash-in-the-pan ANSI standards? I've been around quite a while, and I don't remember coming across this one... (and I remember MASSBUS, IPI, SMD, MFM, ESDI, and a handful of other abbreviation...) Oh well, another board for the board-archive/stack... -al- -----Original Message----- From: Al Kossow [mailto:aek@spies.com] Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 2:49 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Emulex SC04 controller... what kind of disk does it talk to? anyone recognize this puppy? -- yup.. ANSI 8" interface I was VERY happy someone outbid me on it when I discovered what it was.. If someone has a paper copy of the X3.101 spec, i'd like to add it to the archives on spies. It appears to be based on the Shugart/Quantum 8" drive standard but on a single 50 pin connector instead of a 50 and 26. From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Thu Jul 31 15:10:01 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:08 2005 Subject: OT: Computer Hardware that must go... (cctalk) Message-ID: <3F2976CC.C392A400@comcast.net> Well, I've been talking about it, and now I finally hove gotten together a basic list of computer hardware and parts that I'm clearing out of my basement... includes some older laser printers, 68k & PPC Macintosh computers, couple Sun SparcStations, Pentium computers, couple Cabletron 10baseT hubs, pair of Digital DELNIs, DECRepeater 350, and other random bits... Check them out at: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dwoyciesjes/hardware.htm ...and... http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dwoyciesjes/peecees.htm PayPal, Money Order, Cash (if you come and pick it up), or trade. As you can guess, you picking it up is preferred (but not required) considering the amount of stuff I'm clearing out. Otherwise, I'll ship FedEx Ground. I'll give everyone 3 weeks to get thier offers in. This is the stuff I'm looking in trade: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dwoyciesjes/wanted.html -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Thu Jul 31 15:18:00 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:08 2005 Subject: OT: Computer Hardware that must go... (cctalk) References: <3F2976CC.C392A400@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3F2978A2.7AB9667F@comcast.net> Forgot to mention, the stuff is located in Hamden, CT... David Woyciesjes wrote: > > Well, I've been talking about it, and now I finally hove gotten > together a basic list of computer hardware and parts that I'm clearing > out of my basement... includes some older laser printers, 68k & PPC > Macintosh computers, couple Sun SparcStations, Pentium computers, couple > Cabletron 10baseT hubs, pair of Digital DELNIs, DECRepeater 350, and > other random bits... > > Check them out at: > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dwoyciesjes/hardware.htm > ...and... > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dwoyciesjes/peecees.htm > > PayPal, Money Order, Cash (if you come and pick it up), or trade. > As you can guess, you picking it up is preferred (but not required) > considering the amount of stuff I'm clearing out. Otherwise, I'll ship > FedEx Ground. > > I'll give everyone 3 weeks to get thier offers in. > > This is the stuff I'm looking in trade: > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dwoyciesjes/wanted.html > > -- -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jul 31 15:49:01 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:08 2005 Subject: Free: Tektronix RM31A, near Santa Cruz, CA Message-ID: I guess this is slightly OT, but I figure someone here might be interested. I'd love to have the scope myself, but it is rather heavy, and shipping it to Houston would be risky due to the huge number of tubes. (Close to 50 individual tubes IIRC.) This is a rack-mount scope, and it comes with a type CA plug-in. It is located near Santa Cruz, CA just south of Silicon Valley. If anyone is interested, contact me off-list and I will pass on contact information. -Toth From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 31 15:51:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:08 2005 Subject: PET 2001 16 N Mystery In-Reply-To: from "Degnan@degnanco.net, "Co." at Jul 28, 3 02:16:44 pm Message-ID: > I wish to pose this question with the hope that there is someone > else who has had the same thing happen to them, and/or can suggest > a cause/fix.. > > I have a Commodore PET 2001 16 N. Whenever I try to write or read > from tape (using 1530 drive) the computer freezes up and I am forced > to turn off/on. After powering the unit back on, the screen is filled This sounds like a power supply problem -- the extra load of the tape drive motor is pulling the unregulated supply down, which is then causeing the 5V line to drop too low. Many PETs have a white Molex 0.156" power connector on the mainboard, the socket part of which is wired to the transformer and smoothing capacitors mounted seprately in the case. This connector is somewhat under-rated, and tends to go high resistance and overheat. If the plastic has started to turn brown, this is one of your problems. Either replace the connector, or remove it completely and solder the wires directly to the main PCB (you might then want to add an in-line connector of a suitable rating to aid future servicing). Also, check the smoothing capacitors (particularly the large ones mounted off the main PCB). It's possible one of those has dried up. -tony From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Jul 31 16:14:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:08 2005 Subject: PET 2001 16 N Mystery Message-ID: <200307312110.OAA06049@clulw009.amd.com> >From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk > >> I wish to pose this question with the hope that there is someone >> else who has had the same thing happen to them, and/or can suggest >> a cause/fix.. >> >> I have a Commodore PET 2001 16 N. Whenever I try to write or read >> from tape (using 1530 drive) the computer freezes up and I am forced >> to turn off/on. After powering the unit back on, the screen is filled > >This sounds like a power supply problem -- the extra load of the tape >drive motor is pulling the unregulated supply down, which is then >causeing the 5V line to drop too low. > >Many PETs have a white Molex 0.156" power connector on the mainboard, the >socket part of which is wired to the transformer and smoothing capacitors >mounted seprately in the case. This connector is somewhat under-rated, >and tends to go high resistance and overheat. If the plastic has started >to turn brown, this is one of your problems. Hi Put DC#4 on the pins and don't worry about it. Dwight > >Either replace the connector, or remove it completely and solder the >wires directly to the main PCB (you might then want to add an in-line >connector of a suitable rating to aid future servicing). > >Also, check the smoothing capacitors (particularly the large ones mounted >off the main PCB). It's possible one of those has dried up. > >-tony From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jul 31 17:27:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:08 2005 Subject: Free: Tektronix RM31A, near Santa Cruz, CA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jul 2003, Tothwolf wrote: > I guess this is slightly OT, but I figure someone here might be > interested. I'd love to have the scope myself, but it is rather heavy, > and shipping it to Houston would be risky due to the huge number of > tubes. (Close to 50 individual tubes IIRC.) > > This is a rack-mount scope, and it comes with a type CA plug-in. It is > located near Santa Cruz, CA just south of Silicon Valley. If anyone is > interested, contact me off-list and I will pass on contact information. Oh, and I forgot to add that this scope was working when last used. Due to it's age, it probably still needs some maintenance though. -Toth From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jul 31 17:30:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:08 2005 Subject: Tektronix 8002 Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030731175501.4297848c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found this site whi;le searching for something else. They have three Tek 8002s and may be able to provide copies of docs for them. If you contact them, let me know your results. Joe From wrawbee at hotmail.com Thu Jul 31 20:33:00 2003 From: wrawbee at hotmail.com (Robbie Sanders) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:08 2005 Subject: Old CFX-400 cases Message-ID: Stan, I'm guessing you decided not to trade or sell any of your parts to me. Perhaps you got a better offer or you were offended by mine. I hope I didn't offend you, but if someone offered you a bunch of money for them that's great. If you just decided to hang on to them or something, please keep my email address in case you ever do decide to part with any parts or if you are ever looking for a nice CFX-40 as a backup or replacement. Thanks. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From wrawbee at hotmail.com Thu Jul 31 20:35:55 2003 From: wrawbee at hotmail.com (Robbie Sanders) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:08 2005 Subject: CFX-400 Case Message-ID: Stan, I've done some calling around and emailing. Casio has four distributors that they send replacement parts to. None of them have the case in stock. The last time a case was sold from Casio was on April 30, 1996. It was to an individual, not a distributor. The CFX-400 case with key pad has two part numbers. The first is 73081910. It was later changed to 73081928, but it is the same part and description. There are two parts still in production and available from Casio that you may want to consider buying. They are the rubber backing seal and the LCD (not the module, just the screen). Good Luck. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From hansp at citem.org Thu Jul 31 20:37:36 2003 From: hansp at citem.org (hansp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:08 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 tinkering In-Reply-To: <3F2973F1.20488.4A7D1E84@localhost> References: <3F2973F1.20488.4A7D1E84@localhost> Message-ID: <3F29665E.7080404@citem.org> Hans Franke wrote: >>We did some tinkering with our IBM 5100 the other day with results which >>might be of interest. > > >> 10 a = 0 >> 20 print a, a*a, sqr(a) >> 30 a = a + 1 >> 40 if a < 100 goto 20 >> 50 stop > > >>The 5100 seems about 30% faster on though with the following program: > > >> 10 a = 0 >> 20 b = a*a >> 25 c = sqr(a) >> 30 a = a + 1 >> 40 if a < 100 goto 20 >> 50 stop > > >>So it seems it is the display which slows it down. > > > Well, to some extend. To my experiance it's rather the PET who > slowed down the programm. The PET had realy one of the slowest > BASIC interpreters / Systems around at that time. An Apple II > did usualy outperform it by some 30-50% with exactly the same > coding. Interesting. We are told that the PET BASIC is in fact a version of microsoft BASIC which was an outright sale with no royalties. Can anyone confirm/deny that? We have a number of working BASIC machines of that era and plan on doing a grand performance comparison one of these days. -- hbp From mranalog at comcast.net Thu Jul 31 20:39:24 2003 From: mranalog at comcast.net (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:08 2005 Subject: Analog computer article Message-ID: <002e01c3579b$5d74f800$f051e50c@attbi.com> Hi All, If you are interested in building your own analog computer or just interested learning more about how an analog computer works, I found a PDF version of a 4 part construction article on the web. The article, I believe, is from Practical Electronics Magazine (UK) (date unknown, probably late 1970s). The amplifiers are 741 opamps. And the amplifiers even have overvoltage indicators which is a sophisticated feature usually found only on commercial computers. Part 1 is how an analog computer works Part 2 is construction details Part 3 is wiring and testing and Part 4 is programming and special circuits The file 2.25 MB Kronis, P., "Analogue Computer", Parts 1, 2, 3, 4 http://patrik.unx.nu/tech/analog_dator/anacomp.pdf --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog ========================================= From ggs at shiresoft.com Thu Jul 31 21:27:00 2003 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:39:08 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 tinkering In-Reply-To: <3F102004.3070802@citem.org> References: <3F102004.3070802@citem.org> Message-ID: <1059703982.4874.3.camel@nazgul.pao.digeo.com> On Sat, 2003-07-12 at 07:49, Hans Pufal wrote: > We did some tinkering with our IBM 5100 the other day with results which > might be of interest. > > That statemnet surprised me and I wanted to confirm it. Early > indication show that the two machines are remarkably alike in > performance (another suprise) the following program runs in the same > time (to the second) on both machines : > > 10 a = 0 > 20 print a, a*a, sqr(a) > 30 a = a + 1 > 40 if a < 100 goto 20 > 50 stop > > The 5100 seems about 30% faster on though with the following program: > > 10 a = 0 > 20 b = a*a > 25 c = sqr(a) > 30 a = a + 1 > 40 if a < 100 goto 20 > 50 stop > > So it seems it is the display which slows it down. Before you jump to that conclusion, remember that "print" does a fair amount of processing to put the numbers into EBCDIC (for the IBM anyway -- but ASCII would be similar) as you are dealing with "floating point" (it also does *some* column formatting as indicated by "," as opposed to ";"). -- TTFN - Guy