From mranalog at attbi.com Wed Jan 1 00:55:01 2003 From: mranalog at attbi.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:57 2005 Subject: WWII fire control 'computers' Message-ID: <3E129169.2294F794@attbi.com> Jules Richardson asks: > Does anyone know anything about the mechanical fire control computers as used > in second world war for UK coastal defence batteries? Do you know who the manufacturer was? I have started web pages for Ford Instrument, and Arma Corporation. And I have some information on them. I also received this email just last Sunday from David Mindell, Associate Professor of the History of Engineering and Manufacturing at MIT: > ....... You might be interested in my new book, > Between Human and Machine: Feedback, Control, and > Computing before Cybernetics (Johns Hopkins, 2002). > It has a lot of heretofore unkown history of analog > computing, including the Ford Instrument Company, > Sperry, Arma, naval fire control, early Bell Labs > analog electrical computers ("operational amplifiers,") > Philbrick, etc. Even a Librascope computer, not unlike > the one on your page, incorporated into the Mark 56 > radar-controlled gun director. I have not had a chance to see a copy of this book yet. But you might look for a copy of this book, or email the author at mindell at mit dot edu and ask him. --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog ========================================= From owad at applefritter.com Wed Jan 1 09:36:00 2003 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:58 2005 Subject: Free Wang PC in MD Message-ID: <20030101153831.27066@mail.earthlink.net> This Wang sounds like it's been well taken care of. Email Bob . Bob's original messages (with HTML stripped): ---------- I have a top of the line Wang computer complete with keyboard, monitor, and daisywheel printer. I have numerous wheels and about a dozen tapes for the printer. Our local authorities have scheduled a pickup for obsolete and unwanted electronic and computer equipment on 13 January 2003. My wife insists I get rid of 'all' unused electronic gear, and I hate to see my Wang in a landfill. Do you know anyone who would want it? If so, please forward this message. I'm located in Salisbury, MD, and my e-mail address is . ---------- Happy New Year, Tom. Re my Wang: I do not find a model number but Wang's literature calls it a Professional Computer. It was made in 1986 and bears a serial no. PG3397. Its dimensions are: 26x16x5 inches. The printer 's dimensions are 22x16x5. It is primarily a word processing device, and Wang's Integrated Word Processing reference guide calls it version 2.5. Other literature (Installation guide) refers to PC 300/33C series. The computer is NOT IBM compatible. I have lots of descriptive literature and instruction manuals. Further, If anyone is interested in getting this computer and associated equipment, and realizing Salisbury is in a somewhat remote area, I would be willing to meet with a prospective owner in Easton, MD., or, depending on weather, at one end of the Bay bridge. Further than that I'm unwilling to drive. I'm going on 87 years of age, and not as adventure-some as I was several years ago. I hope you can find someone who wants this device. I had lots of fun with it, and I certainly don't want to see it end up in a land-fill. Once more, Have a good 2003. Sincerely, Bob ---------- From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 1 11:48:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:58 2005 Subject: Anyone have any experience replacing a Dallas 1287 with a 12887? In-Reply-To: <3E1223D4.6205.7C6AC05@localhost> Message-ID: <20030101175039.17623.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Lawrence Walker wrote: > A while back I had problems accessing a Grid 1520-286 > because of a password. If I remember correctly it was a > DS1287A. The A signified it as resettable and grounding > 2 pins cleared the memory. I've seen that detail on the web pages. > Your problem would seem to > stem more from the BIOS settings and it is going to the > default setting and since the Dallis chip is dead nothing > is retained. Exactly. > ISTR that the 12887 is a drop-in replacement. > If you want to call soldering all those pins "drop-in" I do. Soldering is not offputting to me. > Dallas has a bunch of info on the chip. I don't have the > URL handy. I have those data sheets. I was curious to learn from others experiences. > Considering all the problems and low used prices > involved. You might consider getting an old Grid 1520 > which also has the advantage of an additional EPROM > slot which can contain info configuring various aspects of > the computer, including a system boot. I wouldn't mind a Grid, but unless it has an ISA slot, preferably two, it won't work for my application - I need an Ethernet interface for getting EPROM and PLD data in and out, and the programmer interface. The Compaq 286/SLT has two ISA slots in the docking station. I already have the machine here, and I have a DS12887 coming as a free sample. I appreciate the suggestion, but until I completely run this machine to the ground, I would like to continue to explore using it. Thanks, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From cb at mythtech.net Wed Jan 1 13:56:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:58 2005 Subject: Floppy disk media density/format mismatching Message-ID: >I >always thought that if you format a high density floppy for low density >that it will work for a while, then the data will become corrupt due to >the different magnetic properties of the media. In my experience this is true. A long while back, at work we had a client that kept sending us boxes of blank HD 3.5 disks for use on PCs. We never needed them (sent all the data va modem), and some at my office kept taking them and formatting them as 800k in our Macs (SE's and Pluses at the time). None of them lasted more than a few weeks and a few dozen read/writes. They generated read/write errors fairly quickly, and always ended up loosing data. Some wouldn't even take a format. I can't imagine them being much better for a 400k disk (which was really a single sided 800k disk as far as Apple was concerned... but don't be fooled into thinking a 400k disk is safe to format as 800k... I have many many disks that went bad doing that as well... I can only assume that only one side of the media was tested as good in manufacturing). I had even worse experiences with punching a hole in a DD 3.5 disk and formatting for 1.44 (I even have one of those hole punchers sold for just this purpose). I think of the bunch that I tried (I think it was a pack of 25), only something like 5 even took the format, and those 5 failed almost on their first use... that was a total disaster of an experiment (I bought the puncher and a pack of disks specifically to avoid the higher HD cost... it was after this failure that I looked up info on the disks and learned WHY this wouldn't work, then I was amazed at the fact that a company sold a punch tool for it... but like PT Barnum says...) -chris From mranalog at attbi.com Wed Jan 1 14:24:00 2003 From: mranalog at attbi.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:58 2005 Subject: Apollo Guidance Computer was Re: WWII fire control 'computers' Message-ID: <3E134EF2.DE3ECCE4@attbi.com> While trying to find more information about the book "Between Human and Machine: Feedback, Control, and Computing before Cybernetics" that I mentioned earlier, I came across a streaming video clip (little over an hour long) of professor Mindell discussing his book: http://web.mit.edu/mitworld/content/authors/mindell.html click on "View->>" A very interesting listen. Towards the end of the clip he mentions that his next project will involve the evolution of virtual environments starting with flight simulators in the 1930, through Apollo, to the internet today. I also noticed during my search that he is the point of contact about the Apollo Guidance Computer for the "History of Recent Science & Technology" web site at MIT - http://hrst.mit.edu/ Anyway, since some people here have been asking for more information on the AGC, I thought I would mention that the "History of Recent Science & Technology" web site has a great library of PDF documents on the AGC at http://hrst.mit.edu/groups/apollo/bibliography/q-and-a.tcl?topic_id=11&topic=Document%20Library I glanced through some of the files. Many of them are quite large. The first file, "Apollo Guidance and Navigation Lunar Module Student Study Guide" seems to be a very detailed manual on the workings of the computer, including a list of machine instructions. "Demonstration of the AGC" is a video clip of the computer being operated. "Astronauts' Guidance and Navigation Course Notes" is a introduction to functioning of the whole Apollo Guidance and Navigation System. And the file "Luminary 131" (which is a 637MB 1742 page PDF file that took me 2 hours to download at 90kps!!!) is entitled "Apollo Luminary 131 (1C) Program Source Code Listing "19 Dec 1969 NOTE: This listing contains the flight program for the Lunar Module as created by MIT's Draper Lab for the Apollo 13/14 moon missions" And many many more.. --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog ========================================= From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 1 15:27:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:58 2005 Subject: Floppy disk media density/format mismatching In-Reply-To: Message-ID: 1) The REAL Lisa used 5.25" diskettes. Why would a supposed "history" movie ("Pirates of the Valley" had some of the personalities right on, but a LOT (MOST?) of its history was BOGUS) be using a much later model? Didn't the Lisa change over to 3.5" occur AFTER the release of the Mac? (in order to push out excess inventory, by placing the Lisa as a sub-model of the Mac) I think that the REAL Lisa's 5.25" diskettes were 600 Oerstedt (same as, or similar to, "1.2M"). But they had a strange jacket with TWO write access holes, in order to make it possible for users to put thumbprints onto the diskette whichever way they held it. 2) The AMOUNT OF DIFFERENCE in the coercivity is what matters. "360K" diskettes were about 300 Oerstedt, "1.2M" were about 600 Oerstedt, which is so far apart that they would NOT work properly. "720K" were about 600 Oerstedt, "1.4M" were about 750 Oerstedt, which was close enough that you could "get away with it", if you really didn't give a shit about the integrity of your data. You could take a high quality "720K" and punch it to use it as a crummy "1.4M", or you could take a high quality "1.4M" and get away with using it as a crummy "720K". I loved the ad for one of those punches, wherein the guy siad that he had checked WITH MICROMETERS!, and confirmed that "720K" diskette media and "1.4M" (he called them "1.44M") were identical. On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, Ian Primus wrote: > I was hunting around on ebay, and I found this quite by accident. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ > eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4610&item=2085201851 It is an > auction for some reproduction Apple Lisa system disks. The guy > certainly did a good job copying the labels, but I really wonder about > the data on them - the disks he used are high density floppies. I > always thought that if you format a high density floppy for low density > that it will work for a while, then the data will become corrupt due to > the different magnetic properties of the media. I know that this is > true on 5 1/4 media, I used a high density disk in a Commodore 64 by > mistake once, and it didn't work very well. I also remember back when > high density 3 1/2" floppies were pretty expensive, I used to buy low > density disks and drill holes in the other corner so I could reformat > them for high density. It worked just fine, and those disks still work. > Can anyone shed any light on the subject? > > Ian Primus > ian_primus@yahoo.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 1 16:11:01 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:58 2005 Subject: Anyone have any experience replacing a Dallas 1287 with a 12887? In-Reply-To: <20030101175039.17623.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030101175039.17623.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > The Compaq 286/SLT has two ISA slots in the docking station. I already > have the machine here, and I have a DS12887 coming as a free sample. > > I appreciate the suggestion, but until I completely run this machine to > the ground, I would like to continue to explore using it. Years ago I used to maintain some of these systems. I still have my old SLT, but it was dropped, which broke the LCD backlights and did some other unknown damage to the main board. I suspect a crystal or oscillator was damaged. IIRC, the plastic stick-on film that covers the LCD was also damaged, though the LCD itself is intact. I guess I could use a replacement LCD for the system if someone has one laying around. The memory modules are located center-front of the "laptop", under a metal shield/cover. I don't remember how many slots exist, but I think it can hold 3, maybe 4 modules. Modules were available in 1MB and 4MB sizes. The hard drive is a 3.5" form factor IDE drive. Usually, these systems had a 20MB or 40MB drive, but it would have been possible to upgrade it to 120-210MB too. Without a custom BIOS, the system won't support user definable drive types, so you have to use those "Compaq" re-branded Conner drives, while making sure the particular type number is supported by the system. It's also not uncommon for the original hard drives in these systems to have numerous media defects. The drives that were used were not exactly designed for portable use, so were easily damaged. -Toth From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 1 16:46:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:58 2005 Subject: Hi!/ Sharing the technology/ LK401/ Thanks! In-Reply-To: <10301010252.ZM20715@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "pete@dunnington.u-net.com" at Jan 1, 3 02:52:02 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 286 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030101/e8d7cde6/attachment.ksh From marvin at rain.org Wed Jan 1 16:49:01 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:58 2005 Subject: Oersted Ratings of DC300A and DC600 Tape Cartridges Message-ID: <3E137076.49BEFA1@rain.org> The subject says it all. I've checked on Google and get the *impression* that they are both the same at 550 Oersteds. Anyone know if this is truely the case? Thanks. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 1 16:50:23 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:58 2005 Subject: Anyone have any experience replacing a Dallas 1287 with a 12887? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030101225051.36349.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tothwolf wrote: > Years ago I used to maintain some of these systems... > The memory modules are located center-front of the "laptop", under a > metal shield/cover. Yep. Found those. Full of SRAM, not DRAM, astonishingly enough. > I don't remember how many slots exist, but I think it can > hold 3, maybe 4 modules. Modules were available in 1MB and 4MB sizes. Three. I have three 1MB modules. Didn't know there were 4MB modules. I'm sure I'll never run across any. For DOS usage, 3.6MB is OK. This one has Windows 3.0 on it, but I don't need it for what I'm doing. > The hard drive is a 3.5" form factor IDE drive. Usually, these systems > had a 20MB or 40MB drive, but it would have been possible to upgrade > it to 120-210MB too... Mine has the bog-standard 40MB Connor drive (type 22). Would love to find a set of replacement ROMs for this so I could use oddball drives, but for now, I'm stuck with what I've got. -ethan P.S. - I got impatient/bored, so I carved the top of the DS1287 off, bored out the battery and soldered on some wires to a lithium battery holder. Not sure I can put the lid back on (used a low-profile socket, but it's awfully close to the aluminum drive tray/RF sheild), but for now, I have successfully loaded high-density floppies into it and am staring at the up600 application menu! __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From red at bears.org Wed Jan 1 16:58:00 2003 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:58 2005 Subject: Oersted Ratings of DC300A and DC600 Tape Cartridges In-Reply-To: <3E137076.49BEFA1@rain.org> References: <3E137076.49BEFA1@rain.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, Marvin Johnston wrote: > The subject says it all. I've checked on Google and get the *impression* > that they are both the same at 550 Oersteds. Anyone know if this is > truely the case? Thanks. It is. DC300 tapes are 300 ft (30 MB in a QIC24 drive), DC300XL tapes are 450 ft (45 MB) and DC600A are 620ft (60 MB). All 8000 FTPI. ok r. From marvin at rain.org Wed Jan 1 17:10:01 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: Oersted Ratings of DC300A and DC600 Tape Cartridges References: <3E137076.49BEFA1@rain.org> Message-ID: <3E1375DD.713F0F4A@rain.org> Wonderful, thanks much for the information!!! Due to financial concerns, I am selling my IBM 5100 (sigh) on Ebay. Most of the tapes were DC300A, and the extra ones I have are the DC600s. I am in the process of duplicating the tapes, 1) so I can keep a set of the Patch and Games tapes in case I can ever afford another one :), and 2) to make sure the tapes are readable. Thanks again! "r. 'bear' stricklin" wrote: > > On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > The subject says it all. I've checked on Google and get the *impression* > > that they are both the same at 550 Oersteds. Anyone know if this is > > truely the case? Thanks. > > It is. DC300 tapes are 300 ft (30 MB in a QIC24 drive), DC300XL tapes are > 450 ft (45 MB) and DC600A are 620ft (60 MB). All 8000 FTPI. > > ok > r. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 1 17:30:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: substitute for TI TIL306/307 Display? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20021231160657.0f370e7a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20021231160657.0f370e7a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030101182435.46b79dfc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Toth, At 10:51 PM 12/31/02 -0600, you wrote: >On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, Joe wrote: > >> Does anyone know of another display that can be substituted for the TIL >> 306/307? Here is a data sheet for the 306/307 in case you have a >> question about it, . > >I don't know of an exact replacement offhand, but I thought these were >still in production? Are they? I think mine are about 25 years old. FWIW I went looking for some at a large local surplus store and found one that I think is prototype. It's built out of clear material instead of red and is marked TIXL306 and is date coded 7204 (almost 31 years old!). I went through several boxs and THOUSANDs of displays and only found one standard 306 and the one prototype. How many of these displays are you looking for? I >believe I still have a few in my parts bin... In addition to the one that I found in the store I need three of them. Mine were in sockets and the dissimilar metal corrosion has eaten off at least one leg off of each of mine. Joe > >-Toth > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 1 17:31:30 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: Expansion slots in Grids was Re: Anyone have any experience replacing a Dallas 1287 with a 12887? In-Reply-To: <20030101175039.17623.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3E1223D4.6205.7C6AC05@localhost> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030101183242.46b7fb20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:50 AM 1/1/03 -0800, Ethan wrote: > >--- Lawrence Walker wrote: >> A while back I had problems accessing a Grid 1520-286 >> because of a password. If I remember correctly it was a >> DS1287A. The A signified it as resettable and grounding >> 2 pins cleared the memory. > >I've seen that detail on the web pages. > >> Your problem would seem to >> stem more from the BIOS settings and it is going to the >> default setting and since the Dallis chip is dead nothing >> is retained. > >Exactly. > >> ISTR that the 12887 is a drop-in replacement. >> If you want to call soldering all those pins "drop-in" > >I do. Soldering is not offputting to me. > >> Dallas has a bunch of info on the chip. I don't have the >> URL handy. > >I have those data sheets. I was curious to learn from others >experiences. > >> Considering all the problems and low used prices >> involved. You might consider getting an old Grid 1520 >> which also has the advantage of an additional EPROM >> slot which can contain info configuring various aspects of >> the computer, including a system boot. > >I wouldn't mind a Grid, but unless it has an ISA slot, preferably two, >it won't work for my application Mine has two slots. IIRC one is a 16 bit ISA slot and the other is 8 bit. They're both located in an expansion pod that hands on the bottom of the Grid. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 1 17:32:52 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: WWII fire control 'computers' In-Reply-To: <3E129169.2294F794@attbi.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030101182941.46b777be@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> > Jules Richardson asks: >> Does anyone know anything about the mechanical fire control computers as used >> in second world war for UK coastal defence batteries? I don't know much about them but one of my Jr. College professors was a former US Naval officer and was trained to work on them. I forgot exactly how long he said the course was but I think it was nine months. He said that they started building one when they started the course and finished it as the course was ending! Joe From red at bears.org Wed Jan 1 17:41:00 2003 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: Oersted Ratings of DC300A and DC600 Tape Cartridges In-Reply-To: <3E1375DD.713F0F4A@rain.org> References: <3E137076.49BEFA1@rain.org> <3E1375DD.713F0F4A@rain.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, Marvin Johnston wrote: > Wonderful, thanks much for the information!!! Due to financial concerns, > I am selling my IBM 5100 (sigh) on Ebay. Most of the tapes were DC300A, > and the extra ones I have are the DC600s. I am in the process of > duplicating the tapes, 1) so I can keep a set of the Patch and Games > tapes in case I can ever afford another one :), and 2) to make sure the > tapes are readable. Thanks again! You're in the Seattle area, right? I'm set up to image QIC tapes, if you would find it helpful, and can provide tape images on CD no sweat. The only thing would be, you need the right tape drive to write them back out. Do you know whether the 5100 drive is 4- or 9-track? I.E. does it store 15 or 30 MB on that DC300 cart? I can regenerate 9-track QIC easily, but I don't have any QIC11 (4-track) drives, so that would not be possible for me to do right now. ok r. From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 1 17:52:01 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: substitute for TI TIL306/307 Display? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030101182435.46b79dfc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20021231160657.0f370e7a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20021231160657.0f370e7a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030101182435.46b79dfc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, Joe wrote: > At 10:51 PM 12/31/02 -0600, you wrote: > >On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, Joe wrote: > > > > > Does anyone know of another display that can be substituted for the > > > TIL 306/307? Here is a data sheet for the 306/307 in case you have a > > > question about it, . > > > > I don't know of an exact replacement offhand, but I thought these were > > still in production? > > Are they? I think mine are about 25 years old. FWIW I went looking for > some at a large local surplus store and found one that I think is > prototype. It's built out of clear material instead of red and is marked > TIXL306 and is date coded 7204 (almost 31 years old!). I went through > several boxs and THOUSANDs of displays and only found one standard 306 > and the one prototype. > > > How many of these displays are you looking for? I believe I still have > > a few in my parts bin... > > In addition to the one that I found in the store I need three of them. > Mine were in sockets and the dissimilar metal corrosion has eaten off at > least one leg off of each of mine. Oops, I have TIL311s, not the 306. I was thinking that the 311s were still in production. I guess the 311 with a built-in BCD controller must still be useful in current products. I'll make a note to check a couple of my local surplus dealers over the next few weeks. If I find any TIL306 displays, I'll pick them up. Should I also hunt for any 307s? If all else fails, would it be possible to salvage your displays? I've carefully ground back ceramic and plastic on other dip components to attach replacement leads in the past, but it isn't a fun task... -Toth From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 1 20:28:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: IBM PCjr needs a new home Message-ID: Reply directly to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 14:58:34 -0800 (PST) From: Jason To: donate@vintage.org Subject: IBM PCjr Hello! I have a working 1980 IBM PCjr, with 51/4 Floppies of software. If you are interested please reply Thank you, Jason -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 1 20:34:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: Floppy disk media density/format mismatching In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, Ian Primus wrote: > I was hunting around on ebay, and I found this quite by accident. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ > eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4610&item=2085201851 It is an The guy running that auction is a flake in my book. He still owes me $100. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 1 20:38:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: IBM PCjr needs a new home In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Hello! > I have a working 1980 IBM PCjr, with 51/4 Floppies of software. If you are > interested please reply > Thank you, > Jason A 1980 PCJr would indeed be quite a find! The PC (5150) came out August 1981, with the Jr a few years later. From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 1 20:41:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp makes it to the big time Message-ID: An article from Reuters: New Appreciation for Old Computers http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=AS0NHSMHVCPNOCRBAEOCFEY?type=technologyNews&storyID=1980873 Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From allain at panix.com Wed Jan 1 21:23:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: Oersted Ratings of DC300A and DC600 Tape Cartridges References: <3E137076.49BEFA1@rain.org> <3E1375DD.713F0F4A@rain.org> Message-ID: <004801c2b20e$968ceea0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Due to financial concerns, I am selling my IBM 5100 (sigh) on Ebay. Keep us posted, although I hope you sell out of my league, for your own sake. John A. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 1 22:13:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: Expansion slots in Grids was Re: Anyone have any experience replacing a Dallas 1287 with a 12887? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030101183242.46b7fb20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030102041624.34851.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Joe wrote: > At 09:50 AM 1/1/03 -0800, Ethan wrote: > >I wouldn't mind a Grid, but unless it has an ISA slot, preferably two, > >it won't work for my application > > Mine has two slots. IIRC one is a 16 bit ISA slot and the other is 8 > bit. They're both located in an expansion pod that hands on the bottom of > the Grid. Works for me. I'll be sure to pick one up the next time I see one float by. Haven't seen them at Dayton in the past couple of years. They used to be popular (and expensive). For now, the Compaq 286/SLT is working for me. Looks a mess, though. I have a picture (still in the camera) of the setup - the LCD and outer shell are sitting above and behind the motherboard, which is open to the world with the floppy drive off to one side and the hard disk resting on a "Magical Mystery Tour" jewel case. The DS1287 has a crater in the top with a 9V battery lead soldered to the rim, plugged into a lithium cell in a ziplock baggie (which itself is soldered to the top of a 9V battery). I don't intend for it to stay that way, but I was finally able to a) program a GAL for the SBC6120 at last, and b) verify that the software someone sent me for a Xander XP6007 _does_ work with the UP600a (same ISA card, similar data files in the application directory). Once my DS12C887 arrives, I'll be able to button it back up into a tidy package presuming I don't have a wierd BIOS interaction issue. Thanks one and all for help, pictures, zip files and spare parts. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 1 22:21:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: substitute for TI TIL306/307 Display? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030102042354.68253.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tothwolf wrote: > Oops, I have TIL311s, not the 306. I was thinking that the 311s were > still in production. That's what I have, too. Mine are in my Quest Elf. ISTR that the 311s aren't impossible to find, but they are several dollars apiece when you do. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From msspcva at yahoo.com Wed Jan 1 23:22:00 2003 From: msspcva at yahoo.com (Clayton Frank Helvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: DIY Equipment Racks In-Reply-To: <3E10565E.41E08495@ccp.com> Message-ID: <20030102052442.92574.qmail@web41103.mail.yahoo.com> FWIW: I've got two ex-AS/400 racks with heavy casters without power rectifiers or rear doors that I'd like to get some bucks for. I've got the push-in filler panels for them. They're in decent shape, had been used as PC server racks. One has a PC keyboard/mouse rackmount tray and I think there's a set of rails in one too. They're deep racks with 19 inch standard rails that I think are threaded. I'd like to get $100 for each ex-AS/400 rack, and would happily deliver them to anyone within 150 miles of Roanoke VA for that price. These things are VERY heavy, I'd estimate 150 pounds each? I've also got two AS/400 racks with expansion racks for a 9406-type AS/400, and power rectifiers etc. These are complete with doors front and rear and have some filler panels too. I've got some Compaq rail kits, a Proliant shelf, and an old short HP equipment rack that I think isn't 19 inch standard size. If anyone's interested contact me off list at msspcva@yahoo.com. I can send you pictures of the stuff too. -- Frank --- Gary Hildebrand wrote: > "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > > > While thinking about racks to use for mounting my > PDP-11/44 > > components, as well as other equipment from test > equipment to audio > > and synth equipment, something just occured to me: > why bother with > > hunting down steel racks when some 2x4s and lag > bolts may suffice just > > as well? I was thinking that one can just run > 2x4s from the basement > > floor up to the heavy wooden rafters, attach them > to the rafters, and > > then add horizontal supports at the bottom to > space the vertical 2x4s > > apart properly. Any thoughts on this? I guess > the museum-type > > equipment purists won't like the idea, but it > would be a cheap and > > functional solution for many of us. :-) Has anyone > else here tried > > this? > > It would work but very tacky, and not readily > changeable without really > tearing up the lumber. > > I do know that L iron is available with > tapped/untapped RETMA/IEC holes > in standard spacing. I'd go that route. > > Hamfests might be a source for racks, but less and > less of that is > appearing anymore due to the fact most hams carry > their radios on the > hip rather than rack-mounting them. Last rack > cabinet I bought was $2 > (ex-school PA system). I did see a nice NEW > extruded aluminum open > channel 7' rack for $100 at a hamfest. Most likely > you'll see smaller > cabinets, but you never know unless you go to as > many as possible. > > You might check with local radio/television stations > and see if they > have some older racks around. Many of those are too > shallow for the new > equipment, or they are surplus from an old location. > > Gary Hildebrand > St. Joseph, MO ===== = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= Clayton Frank Helvey, President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com ============================================================ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Jan 1 23:31:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: DIY Equipment Racks In-Reply-To: <20030102052442.92574.qmail@web41103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > I'd like to get $100 for each ex-AS/400 rack, and > would happily deliver them to anyone within 150 miles > of Roanoke VA for that price. These things are VERY > heavy, I'd estimate 150 pounds each? I think you will find them to be a whole bunch heavier than 150 pounds! Other than the rather dumb size of these IBM racks (they are too wide for 24 by 24 inch floor tiles), these things are excellent. Very quiet with all that internal foam padding... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jan 1 23:39:02 2003 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: VAX-11/780 spotted in a movie Message-ID: A friend and I just watched the movie "Seven". I'd seen the movie before, but I hadn't noticed the VAX-11/780 in the background of the computerized fingerprint matching scene. It's obviously not running (no roar in the background) but it was definitely a '780. :-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols From msspcva at yahoo.com Wed Jan 1 23:40:01 2003 From: msspcva at yahoo.com (Clayton Frank Helvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: DIY Equipment Racks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030102054312.44406.qmail@web41112.mail.yahoo.com> William: You're probably right about the weight, but I've not tried to weigh one empty. The ones that are located where I could weigh them have all of the power rectifiers and other stuff in them. These do have most of the foam on the sides, some of it was removed to make room for PC odds and ends it looks like. I've been thinking about moving one into the office to replace this short radio base station rack (which is unfortunately not 19 inch standard), but have so far resisted. Another note - if you're in North Carolina in Raliegh/RTP or from there to Wilmington NC, I can deliver this stuff to you - I travel that way relatively often. -- Frank --- William Donzelli wrote: > > I'd like to get $100 for each ex-AS/400 rack, and > > would happily deliver them to anyone within 150 > miles > > of Roanoke VA for that price. These things are > VERY > > heavy, I'd estimate 150 pounds each? > > I think you will find them to be a whole bunch > heavier than 150 pounds! > > Other than the rather dumb size of these IBM racks > (they are too wide for > 24 by 24 inch floor tiles), these things are > excellent. Very quiet with > all that internal foam padding... > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org ===== = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= Clayton Frank Helvey, President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com ============================================================ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From David.Kane at aph.gov.au Wed Jan 1 23:46:00 2003 From: David.Kane at aph.gov.au (Kane, David (DPRS)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: Z8000-Fan Message-ID: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2080B08@email1.parl.net> Hi, I always wanted to play with this processor, I just never got the chance. I have a copy of the Zilog "Microcomputer Components - Data Book Feb 1980" and a copy of "Programming the Z8000" (a Sybec book), but that is about as far as I ever got. I was tinkering with the thought of modding the SIMH emulator to include a Z8000 system, but I don't have any details or experience of any real systems. I then though to invent a fictitious S100 system, based on the existing Altair emulation, but with a Z8000 CPU. This could most likely run a CPM8000 system, with the appropriate BDOS changes. But a lot of work would be need to get a set of compilers/cross compilers for the Z8000, either in tracking them down or writing them. I saw recently that BDS C has been put into the public domain with full source, so there might be some avenue there. Still to generate CPM (or MPM) for a fictitious machine would be a mammoth undertaking, I have all the source code needed, just not the compilers. It would require an 8080/Z80 to Z8000 cross assembler (to avoid rewriting all the assembler), a Z8000 PLM compiler, and a Z8000 C compiler. Anyway I am declaring myself an unfulfilled fan of the Z8000 processor family. David Kane -----Original Message----- From: G?nter Mewes [mailto:info@mewesbus.de] Sent: Saturday, 28 December 2002 12:49 AM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Z8000-Fan Hi Mr. Johnston, today I was looking for some Z8000 Fans, to talk about experieces ... Are you interested ? Please, be so kind and send a mail. Guenter Mewes (www.guentermewes.de) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030101/7f17a958/attachment.html From univac2 at earthlink.net Thu Jan 2 00:47:00 2003 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: VAX-11/780 spotted in a movie In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 1/1/03 11:42 PM, Dave McGuire at mcguire@neurotica.com wrote: > > A friend and I just watched the movie "Seven". I'd seen the movie > before, but I hadn't noticed the VAX-11/780 in the background of the > computerized fingerprint matching scene. It's obviously not running > (no roar in the background) but it was definitely a '780. :-) I saw one in an episode of Matlock, being used for a similar purpose. I think it was a 780. It was definitely a VAX-11 of some kind. Anyway, some FBI guy got slammed up against it. -- Owen Robertson From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Jan 2 01:47:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: PDP9 Control Store on eBay Message-ID: Browsing along, found this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2085798445 Listed (and pictured) as a MC09 (G920D) card. Hex-height, four green tabs. The description says it's 64 words of 36 bits each, Read Only. Minimum bid: $30.00. No buy-it-now. Cheerz John From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Jan 2 02:34:00 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: Expansion slots in Grids was Re: Anyone have any experience replacing a Dallas 1287 with a 12887? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030101183242.46b7fb20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <20030101175039.17623.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E13A372.32096.2D033A6@localhost> On 1 Jan 2003, , Joe wrote: > > > >> Considering all the problems and low used prices > >> involved. You might consider getting an old Grid 1520 > >> which also has the advantage of an additional EPROM slot > >> which can contain info configuring various aspects of the > >> computer, including a system boot. > > > >I wouldn't mind a Grid, but unless it has an ISA slot, > >preferably two, it won't work for my application > > > Mine has two slots. IIRC one is a 16 bit ISA slot and the > other is 8 bit. They're both located in an expansion pod > that hands on the bottom of the Grid. > > Joe > What model do you have Joe. The 15xx use pods in the battery bay. I have VGA and AC pods and I know there are ethernet and SCSI pods. (I have a SCSI 5.25 fdd but alas not the pod). Is this one of the earlier Gridcase models ? I'll have to keep an eye out for that one myself. Lawrence From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Jan 2 03:51:01 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: substitute for TI TIL306/307 Display? References: <3.0.6.16.20021231160657.0f370e7a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20021231160657.0f370e7a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030101182435.46b79dfc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <002901c2b244$e0109aa0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Tothwolf wrote: > Oops, I have TIL311s, not the 306. I was thinking that the 311s were > still in production. I guess the 311 with a built-in BCD controller > must still be useful in current products. That and the TIL311 is an almost like-for-like copy of the HP displays used in the COSMAC Elf (anyone remember that article in Popular Electronics magazine?). I built a COSMAC Elf with TIL311 displays. There's a photo of it on www.cosmacelf.com. I also bought two of them at a hamfest as spares and now I wish I'd bought ten of them! I've found loads of places where I could have used TIL311s... Does anyone here have any '311s they want rid of? Or perhaps someone knows of a surplus store that still sells them? I've also got some TI TIL311s marked as "DIS1417 TI 0014 KOREA". Just to let you know what to look out for :) > I'll make a note to check a couple of my local surplus dealers over > the next few weeks. If I find any TIL306 displays, I'll pick them up. > Should I also hunt for any 307s? If you or anyone else here could track down a few TIL311s for me and give me some idea of price, that would be great. Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 2 05:59:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing continues... Message-ID: Ok, I'm almost there. I've got everything wired up and most of the driver software done. The main problem I'm having is reading the control lines of the 6522. According to the spec sheet, CB1, CB2 and CA2 are all supposed to be TTL level outputs when programmed for such. So they are, but I'm having trouble reading CB2 reliably. I put a pull-down resistor on it but that doesn't help. The signal to it is spotty for some reason. I've got the PICK CHECK signal from the reader going into CB2. I have a 1K resistor going from CB2 to ground. READER SIGNAL----+----/\/\/\-------GND | | 6522 CB2 If there's an error (misfeed for instance) CB2 should get a logical TRUE. This works sometimes, but not always. And it's the same whether I have the pull-down resistor or not. I'm using CB1 reliable without the need of a pull-down resistor. I don't know if it's sloppy code or a bug, but the Apple doesn't seem fast enough to read and process the data character by character. I would think that it should be fast enough to do so but I'll have to check the timing on the loop and see if it falls within the specs of each column read from the reader. For now I've switched to buffering the data and then processing it after each card read, controlling the picker with the software to control the flow of cards. I'm figuring out the code for the last piece which decodes the row pin into a decimal number. What's the best way to do an nth root operation in 6502 assembly? :) Crummy way: LDY #00 LOOP INY LSR BCC LOOP This assumes only 1 bit is set in the accumulator. It loops until the bit falls off from the LSR operation. Assuming the accumulator has #80 to begin with, the Y-register result should be 8. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Jan 2 09:15:01 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: Anyone have any experience replacing a Dallas 1287 with a 128 87? Message-ID: There are 3 memory expansion slots. When filled with 4MB modules, the max RAM is 12.6MB. Three hard drives were offered: two 20MB (type 2) and one 40MB (type 22). The difference between the 20MBs was the interleave of 1:1 vs 3:1. The Compaq Service Quick Reference Guide (1992) lists 13 different ROM revisions, from F.2 to K.1 -----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:erd_6502@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 4:51 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Anyone have any experience replacing a Dallas 1287 with a 12887? --- Tothwolf wrote: > Years ago I used to maintain some of these systems... > The memory modules are located center-front of the "laptop", under a > metal shield/cover. Yep. Found those. Full of SRAM, not DRAM, astonishingly enough. > I don't remember how many slots exist, but I think it can > hold 3, maybe 4 modules. Modules were available in 1MB and 4MB sizes. Three. I have three 1MB modules. Didn't know there were 4MB modules. I'm sure I'll never run across any. For DOS usage, 3.6MB is OK. This one has Windows 3.0 on it, but I don't need it for what I'm doing. > The hard drive is a 3.5" form factor IDE drive. Usually, these systems > had a 20MB or 40MB drive, but it would have been possible to upgrade > it to 120-210MB too... Mine has the bog-standard 40MB Connor drive (type 22). Would love to find a set of replacement ROMs for this so I could use oddball drives, but for now, I'm stuck with what I've got. -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 2 10:06:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: Compaq 286/SLT (was RE: Anyone have any experience replacing a Dallas 1287 with a 12887?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030102160847.13574.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Feldman, Robert" wrote: > There are 3 memory expansion slots. When filled with 4MB modules, the max > RAM is 12.6MB. Make sense. > The Compaq Service Quick Reference Guide (1992) lists 13 different ROM > revisions, from F.2 to K.1 My ROMs have stickers with p/n 110091-011 and 110091-012, (c) 1988. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From rtuttle at earthlink.net Thu Jan 2 10:46:21 2003 From: rtuttle at earthlink.net (Rick Tuttle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: Power Supply for IBM Aptiva Message-ID: Robert F. Schaefer: [power supply, FRU 06H2973, P/N 06H2971 has 3.3V, and an extra connector, keyed 3 pin with a latch, 22GA black, white, & red] Do you still have this available? I use my old Aptiva A40 as my network server here at home. The power supply has been failing for a while but as long as you don?t bump it, it seems to work OK. However, Christmas must have done it in. I need a new one. Will be glad to get yours if still available. Thanks, Rick Tuttle Milwaukee -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030102/f2072712/attachment.html From aek at spies.com Thu Jan 2 10:48:13 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: Oersted Ratings of DC300A and DC600 Tape Cartridges Message-ID: <200301020148.h021mRrd022701@spies.com> http://www.qic.org/html/standards/9x.x/qic95-101e.pdf dc300 dc300xlp 310 Oe dc600A 550 Oe I have a curve in an early wangtek manual about this, too. From formated at juno.com Thu Jan 2 10:49:35 2003 From: formated at juno.com (Joseph B Taylor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: Sharp PC7000 Message-ID: <20030101.000235.-294253.0.Formated@juno.com> The Sharp PC7000 has a nice light blue display with different backlight settings...Dim, Standard, and Bright. A contrast wheel helps fine tune the view. On bright the text is clear and readable. From aek at spies.com Thu Jan 2 10:50:58 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: Oersted Ratings of DC300A and DC600 Tape Cartridges Message-ID: <200301020151.h021p0kT022925@spies.com> an interesting history of the 1/4" tape format can be found here: http://www.cybergenetic.ca/ebook/wrh13.htm From mail at auctionessentials4u.com Thu Jan 2 10:52:21 2003 From: mail at auctionessentials4u.com (Auction Essentials 4U) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer Message-ID: Ernest, I was an Engineer at Apple in the late 70's. I have an original Apple II that I put together as my lab bench computer. It has a proto-type Language Card that I designed.( I also have hand written design notes for the board and a second proto card) The system also contains a proto-type Disk controller boot card and 16 sector Disk. I also have a proto-type hand soldered proto-type parallel port that I designed and licensed to Apple. My library contains a ton of software much of which was used as in-house design tools, some with documentation. The system works. Have you any idea how much this may be worth and the best channels to sell it? BTW: I live in Woodinville WA and I believe you are in Seattle. Check out my Bio at: http://www.ipages4u.com/Bio.htm Robert Paratore paratore@ipages4u.com 206-353-6666 http://www.ipages4u.com From bobh at wolv.tds.net Thu Jan 2 10:53:45 2003 From: bobh at wolv.tds.net (Robert Harrison) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: Scripsit for TRS-80 Model 4; bug in program Message-ID: <01C2B1F6.B07DC9A0.bobh@wolv.tds.net> Did anyone here use Scripsit on the TRS-80 Model 4 and have the problem of long documents getting all garbled? That was a wonderful memory that I had of the "Good Old Days". From JRBrown at DVECCJAX.med.navy.mil Thu Jan 2 10:55:08 2003 From: JRBrown at DVECCJAX.med.navy.mil (Brown, James R. GS) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: Computers for sale Message-ID: <6C286F57B89E5444A268DDF0A0837CE601BF2F@aedes5> I have a Kaypro III, 2 Osborne I's and 1 IBM laptop. All three are 10-15 years old and all but 1 of the Osborne's run fine. I would like to sell them but don't know how to go about it. Could you offer some advice. I will be inventorying the software this evening and will be able to answer detail questions tomorrow. I appreciate your assistance. James R. Brown Jrb2000@bellsouth.net or jrbrown@dveccjax.med.navy.mil Phone after PM is 904-269-3984; cell 904-813-8452 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030102/23af32b4/attachment.html From rob_gr at yahoo.com Thu Jan 2 10:56:31 2003 From: rob_gr at yahoo.com (Rob Greenwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: Cromemco Message-ID: <20030102151742.12523.qmail@web41015.mail.yahoo.com> Mike, When I get a chance I will try to dig out information on the Cromemco, 64KZ memory board. Can not promise I will find anything as we are looking at 15 years. Bob __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From ipscone at msdsite.com Thu Jan 2 11:12:01 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: DC100A Tapes - Reformatting (low level) In-Reply-To: <200301020151.h021p0kT022925@spies.com> References: <200301020151.h021p0kT022925@spies.com> Message-ID: <4455.130.76.32.21.1041527712.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Is it possible to reformat DC100A tapes. Or rather, is there a way to take new tape and respool it onto a DC100A cartridge and then reformat it to work with old HP equipment? From ipscone at msdsite.com Thu Jan 2 11:15:00 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: Cromemco In-Reply-To: <20030102151742.12523.qmail@web41015.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030102151742.12523.qmail@web41015.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49873.130.76.32.21.1041527849.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> I have located a manual for this. Mike > Mike, > > When I get a chance I will try to dig out information > on the Cromemco, 64KZ memory board. > > Can not promise I will find anything as we are looking > at 15 years. > > Bob > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jan 2 11:24:03 2003 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: VAX-11/780 spotted in a movie In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6DD51E33-1E77-11D7-AAAF-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 01:50 AM, Owen Robertson wrote: >> A friend and I just watched the movie "Seven". I'd seen the movie >> before, but I hadn't noticed the VAX-11/780 in the background of the >> computerized fingerprint matching scene. It's obviously not running >> (no roar in the background) but it was definitely a '780. :-) > > I saw one in an episode of Matlock, being used for a similar purpose. I > think it was a 780. It was definitely a VAX-11 of some kind. The 780 is the double-wide refrigerator-looking cabinet. > Anyway, some FBI guy got slammed up against it. Oooh, I'll bet that hurt. The FBI guy, that is. ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols From lemay at cs.umn.edu Thu Jan 2 11:26:02 2003 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (lemay@cs.umn.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp makes it to the big time In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200301021729.LAA09738@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > An article from Reuters: > > New Appreciation for Old Computers > > http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=AS0NHSMHVCPNOCRBAEOCFEY?type=technologyNews&storyID=1980873 > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival Hmm, the article is incorrect when it states that the price guide "collectible computers" is the only one of its kind. In 1993, "a collectors guide to personal computers and pocket calculators" was published. -Lawrence LeMay From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Jan 2 11:31:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: Compaq 286/SLT (was RE: Anyone have any experience replacing a Dallas 1287 with a 12887?) Message-ID: According to the Guide, the p/n's should either be 110091-011 and 110092-011 (for ROM Revision H.6) or 110091-0012 and 110092-012 ( for Revision H.7). Bob -----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:erd_6502@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 10:09 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Compaq 286/SLT (was RE: Anyone have any experience replacing a Dallas 1287 with a 12887?) My ROMs have stickers with p/n 110091-011 and 110091-012, (c) 1988. -ethan From evan947 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 2 11:48:05 2003 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp makes it to the big time In-Reply-To: <200301021729.LAA09738@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20030102175054.53602.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com> In 1997, Guy Ball and Bruce Flamm published "The Complete Collector's Guide to Pocket Calculators." I own a copy and reference from it all the time. It was the official guide of (sadly, now-defunct) International Association of Calculator Collectors. --- lemay@cs.umn.edu wrote: > > > > An article from Reuters: > > > > New Appreciation for Old Computers > > > > > http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=AS0NHSMHVCPNOCRBAEOCFEY?type=technologyNews&storyID=1980873 > > > > Sellam Ismail > Vintage Computer Festival > > Hmm, the article is incorrect when it states that > the price guide "collectible > computers" is the only one of its kind. In 1993, "a > collectors guide to > personal computers and pocket calculators" was > published. > > -Lawrence LeMay __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Jan 2 12:49:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: Z8000-Fan Message-ID: <200301021852.KAA10353@clulw009.amd.com> Hi David It may not be as hard as you'd think. First, you don't have to cross compile CPM-8000. There already is a CPM-8000. Recently, source and release code was found for this and, working with Chris Groessle, we've managed to bring it up on our Olivetti M20's. This code was originally written for the M20, as it was the only major machine sold with a Z8000 ( there were a few SBC's out there ). The release comes with a C compiler and an assembler. There is source code for the BIOS as well. It does depend on the M20 ROM code for low level access. This CPM was mostly written by a combination of Zilog and DR people. It is mostly written in C with a minimum written in assembly. There are a few issues. Even though the manual says you can get by with only 128K, this would be difficult. Several of the utilities require two 64K chunks ( one for instruction and one for data ). It would be best if the other system functions had there own piece of RAM to work in. One needs to map the memory such that you can access a single 64K as both instruction and data as well as the 128K as 64k instruction and 64k data. The bad news is that we don't have the complete source for the CPM. The BIOS does require that it be compiled on a running CPM-8000. As the documents state, it would be difficult to build it on some other system. Still if someone is willing to write a BIOS for their board, I'd be willing to compile the code for them on my machine. Dwight >From: "Kane, David (DPRS)" > >Hi, > >I always wanted to play with this processor, I just never got the chance. I have a copy of the Zilog "Microcomputer Components - Data Book Feb 1980" and a copy of "Programming the Z8000" (a Sybec book), but that is about as far as I ever got. I was tinkering with the thought of modding the SIMH emulator to include a Z8000 system, but I don't have any details or experience of any real systems. I then though to invent a fictitious S100 system, based on the existing Altair emulation, but with a Z8000 CPU. This could most likely run a CPM8000 system, with the appropriate BDOS changes. But a lot of work would be need to get a set of compilers/cross compilers for the Z8000, either in tracking them down or writing them. I saw recently that BDS C has been put into the public domain with full source, so there might be some avenue there. Still to generate CPM (or MPM) for a fictitious machine would be a mammoth undertaking, I have all the source code needed, just not the compilers. It would require an 8080/Z80 to Z8000 cross assembler (to avoid rewriting all the assembler), a Z8000 PLM compiler, and a Z8000 C compiler. > >Anyway I am declaring myself an unfulfilled fan of the Z8000 processor family. > >David Kane > >-----Original Message----- >From: G?nter Mewes [mailto:info@mewesbus.de] >Sent: Saturday, 28 December 2002 12:49 AM >To: cctech@classiccmp.org >Subject: Z8000-Fan > >Hi Mr. Johnston, >today I was looking for some Z8000 Fans, to talk about experieces ... >Are you interested ? > >Please, be so kind and send a mail. > >Guenter Mewes (www.guentermewes.de) From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 2 13:13:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: Compaq 286/SLT (was RE: Anyone have any experience replacing a Dallas 1287 with a 12887?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030102191612.30913.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Feldman, Robert" wrote: > According to the Guide, the p/n's should either be 110091-011 and > 110092-011 > (for ROM Revision H.6) or 110091-0012 and 110092-012 ( for Revision H.7). > > Bob Whoops! My typo... I have H.6 ROMs, then. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Jan 2 13:16:01 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing continues... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I've got the PICK CHECK signal from the reader going into CB2. I have a > 1K resistor going from CB2 to ground. ^^^^^^^^^^^ Try changing to 5K or even 10K (what I always use for pull ups/downs in TTL work. I think you're burying the poor PICK CHECK signal. Actually all the resistors oughta be 10K, IMHO. Cheers John From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 2 13:30:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: PDP9 Control Store on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, John Lawson wrote: > Browsing along, found this: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2085798445 The same seller also has some interesting other items for sale, including a few 6502 books, and some interesting Intecolor graphics terminals: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3696&item=2085708571 Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 2 13:35:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp makes it to the big time In-Reply-To: <200301021729.LAA09738@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Jan 2003 lemay@cs.umn.edu wrote: > Hmm, the article is incorrect when it states that the price guide > "collectible computers" is the only one of its kind. In 1993, "a > collectors guide to personal computers and pocket calculators" was > published. Of course true, but the values in Haddock's book are ridiculous. Anyway, the fact that he got Micro-Instrumentation and Telemetry Systems correct should merit a Pulitzer! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 2 13:40:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:27:59 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing continues... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, John Lawson wrote: > On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > I've got the PICK CHECK signal from the reader going into CB2. I have a > > 1K resistor going from CB2 to ground. > ^^^^^^^^^^^ > Try changing to 5K or even 10K (what I always use for pull ups/downs in > TTL work. I think you're burying the poor PICK CHECK signal. Actually > all the resistors oughta be 10K, IMHO. I'll certainly try that. But I'm wondering why that should be necessary when the 6522 data sheet says that particular pin is a TTL level output. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pcw at mesanet.com Thu Jan 2 14:08:00 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing continues... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, John Lawson wrote: > > > On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > > > I've got the PICK CHECK signal from the reader going into CB2. I have a > > > 1K resistor going from CB2 to ground. > > ^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Try changing to 5K or even 10K (what I always use for pull ups/downs in > > TTL work. I think you're burying the poor PICK CHECK signal. Actually > > all the resistors oughta be 10K, IMHO. > > I'll certainly try that. But I'm wondering why that should be necessary > when the 6522 data sheet says that particular pin is a TTL level output. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > I would think that you would be better off to use a pull-up resistor when connecting a TTL output to a MOS input (even a supposedly TTL compatible MOS input), since even totem-pole TTL outputs are weaker at pulling up than down. A 1K _pullup_ is fine... Peter Wallace From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Jan 2 14:11:52 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing continues... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > I'll certainly try that. But I'm wondering why that should be necessary > when the 6522 data sheet says that particular pin is a TTL level output. I imagine that the relative low resitance of the 1K resistor is diverting too much of the signal to ground, ie. it's loading that pin too much, and the actual voltage level of the pulses generated are of borderline value to positively switch the chip. In TTL (as in all other families) there are 'windows' of operation... there is a window of voltage ranges that constitute a guaranteed '0', then above that a window of ranges where it is uncertain (or not guaranteed) that the pin will be at the state wanted, and a window above that, in which it is guaranteed that the pin will be at a '1'. Above that, you risk killing the chip. I think the 1K pull-down is loading that particular pin down to where it is inside the uncertainty window, thus allowing that Prankster Chaos to slip in the back door... the other pins are working because they are probably just over the borderline... 10K Rs will clean you up, I betcha. Cheers John From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Jan 2 14:19:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing continues... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > I would think that you would be better off to use a pull-up resistor when > connecting a TTL output to a MOS input Except that the particular pin in question needs to be a '0' as it's resting state..... Cheers John From pcw at mesanet.com Thu Jan 2 14:34:00 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing continues... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, John Lawson wrote: > > > On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > > I would think that you would be better off to use a pull-up resistor when > > connecting a TTL output to a MOS input > > Except that the particular pin in question needs to be a '0' as it's > resting state..... > > Cheers > > John > > The resting state (0) will be determined by the M200, With a pullup the signal will be high when the M200 is not connected, but I doubt if that matters... Peter Wallace From red at bears.org Thu Jan 2 14:40:00 2003 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: Oersted Ratings of DC300A and DC600 Tape Cartridges In-Reply-To: <200301020148.h021mRrd022701@spies.com> References: <200301020148.h021mRrd022701@spies.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, Al Kossow wrote: > http://www.qic.org/html/standards/9x.x/qic95-101e.pdf > > dc300 dc300xlp 310 Oe > dc600A 550 Oe > > I have a curve in an early wangtek manual about this, too. Oof, my mistake for wrongly assuming that recording density was the same as coercivity. Now that I think about it, I should have known better. I've done some more research on the specifics of the QIC drive in the 5100 and it looks like at 204 KB per DC300 tape it's not even to the ancient QIC-11 standard. I wouldn't want to bet more than a nickel on the suitability of DC600A media for the 5100, after all. ok r. From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Jan 2 14:47:01 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing continues... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > The resting state (0) will be determined by the M200, With a pullup the signal > will be high when the M200 is not connected, but I doubt if that matters... Certainly you are correct in the generic case, and I would have thought so to. However: from speaking w/Sellam on the phone regarding this, it seems that M200 is not 'zeroing' that pin well, so I suggested pull-downs... without a resistor the pin floats around... not exactly sure on a molecular level whats going on, but it probaly has to do with competing power supplies... anyway, I'm curious to see if changing to 5K or 10K will solve the problem... But certainly this whole subject is producing a good deal of information which should prove useful to the next person who has a similar interfacing task! Cheers John From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Jan 2 15:01:00 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing continues... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <03ad01c2b2a2$5f7f2790$020010ac@k4jcw> It has been my experience that any time you start seeing pulldown resistors, you need to run away. Far far away. TTL and CMOS, with the exception of certain parts, have very poor drive capability, but excellcent sink capability. If he's really having a problem like this, then it may call for an inverter, perhaps with a Schmidt triggered input. But pulldowns... Bad juju... --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of John Lawson > Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 15:50 > To: Classic Computers Mailing List > Subject: Re: M200 interfacing continues... > > > > > On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > > > > The resting state (0) will be determined by the M200, With > a pullup the signal > > will be high when the M200 is not connected, but I doubt if > that matters... > > Certainly you are correct in the generic case, and I would > have thought > so to. However: from speaking w/Sellam on the phone > regarding this, it > seems that M200 is not 'zeroing' that pin well, so I suggested > pull-downs... without a resistor the pin floats around... > not exactly > sure on a molecular level whats going on, but it probaly has > to do with > competing power supplies... anyway, I'm curious to see if > changing to 5K > or 10K will solve the problem... > > But certainly this whole subject is producing a good deal > of information > which should prove useful to the next person who has a > similar interfacing > task! > > Cheers > > John > > > From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Jan 2 15:17:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing continues... Message-ID: <200301022119.NAA10415@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Sellam Ismail" > >On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, John Lawson wrote: > >> On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >> >> > I've got the PICK CHECK signal from the reader going into CB2. I have a >> > 1K resistor going from CB2 to ground. >> ^^^^^^^^^^^ >> Try changing to 5K or even 10K (what I always use for pull ups/downs in >> TTL work. I think you're burying the poor PICK CHECK signal. Actually >> all the resistors oughta be 10K, IMHO. > >I'll certainly try that. But I'm wondering why that should be necessary >when the 6522 data sheet says that particular pin is a TTL level output. Hi I thought you were using the pin as an input. As an input, there is no pullup and a floating pin would not be good. Dwight > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 2 15:52:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: Oersted Ratings of DC300A and DC600 Tape Cartridges In-Reply-To: from "r. 'bear' stricklin" at Jan 1, 3 06:43:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1249 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030102/001ba360/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 2 15:55:10 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing continues... In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Jan 2, 3 04:00:11 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1434 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030102/6536cd69/attachment.ksh From red at bears.org Thu Jan 2 16:24:01 2003 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: Oersted Ratings of DC300A and DC600 Tape Cartridges In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > Be careful. Some of the older machines used standard-looking tape > cartridges, but didn't use any of the QIC formats on them. I know of at > least one machine that had a 2-winding head, and recorded a transition on > one track for a '0' and one on the other track for a '1' (a bit like the > HP calculator magnetic cards). Needless to say you'll not read such tapes > with a normal QIC drive/formatter. Yeah, since then I've been reading a bit more about the 5100 and it soudns a lot like there's something peculiar going on in that drive. I doubt very much now the ability of the tapes to be read on most any drive other than that in the 5100. ok r. From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 2 18:03:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing continues... In-Reply-To: <200301022119.NAA10415@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, John Lawson wrote: > > > >> On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > >> > >> > I've got the PICK CHECK signal from the reader going into CB2. I have > a > >> > 1K resistor going from CB2 to ground. > >> ^^^^^^^^^^^ > >> Try changing to 5K or even 10K (what I always use for pull ups/downs in > >> TTL work. I think you're burying the poor PICK CHECK signal. Actually > >> all the resistors oughta be 10K, IMHO. > > > >I'll certainly try that. But I'm wondering why that should be necessary > >when the 6522 data sheet says that particular pin is a TTL level output. > > Hi > I thought you were using the pin as an input. As an input, > there is no pullup and a floating pin would not be good. The pin is an input, but it's normal state is to be off/false. Therefore, John's suggestion to put a pulldown resistor on it seems logical. It should be normally off, and the M200 should bring it high when it wants to signal the PICK CHECK error. I'm trying to troubleshoot a more pressing problem right now: the reader is picking 5 cards before the Apple thinks 80 Index Marks (e.g. 80 characters) have been detected. Either my code is wrong, my code is slow, or the Apple is too slow to handle the reader input (in which case this was all for naught). I'm heading off to Radio Shack to take a mental break and to get some resistors and to see if they can offer me more than just blank stares. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 2 18:08:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing continues... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > The main problem I'm having is reading the control lines of the 6522. > > According to the spec sheet, CB1, CB2 and CA2 are all supposed to be TTL > > level outputs when programmed for such. So they are, but I'm having > > Do you mean output or input here? If you're reading a pin, then I would > have assumed you were using it as an input. Sorry for confusing the hell out of anyone. I meant input. From the 6522 datasheet: "CA1 is a high impedance input, while CA2 represents one standard TTL load in the input mode." ...and regarding CB1 and CB2... "Each control line represents one standard TTL load in the input mode and can drive one TTL load in the output mode." > Try a pull-up instead (TTL sinks a lot better than it sources). In other > words change the end of the resistor from ground to +5V > > make this +5V > | > V > > READER SIGNAL----+----/\/\/\-------GND > > | > > | > > 6522 CB2 Wouldn't this give me a default state of logical true on the input pin? > If you still have problems, then maybe the driver chip in the M200 has > died. It happens. I've had a couple of HP9810 calculators across my bench > where there were 10 or so dead TTL chips (74Hxxx TTL chips especially) > that appeared to work, but which couldn't give a proper output signal, > so the chip it was connected to didn't always get the right logic level. Well, it works, just not all the time. So from what John has told me, it seems like the signal is just being lost half the time. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Jan 2 18:18:01 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: Two great Finds Today Message-ID: <012e01c2b2bd$f7973480$d450ef42@oemcomputer> A friend stopped me in the parking lot of an auction today and gave me a box full of computer stuff and in it was a TI-74 BASICALC with a carrying case and 8k RAM module in it. Also it came with a Quick Reference Card for Basic Syntax. At the auction I got something called "The Brick" by Ergo computing Inc.. It's a cool looking 386SX-16 as per this article from a google search: "The Ergo Brick, a 3" x 8" x 11" totable PC, was billed as the "cure for the common computer." With a keyboard and monitor at home, another at work, it gave desktop power in a portable package. Today you could fit three PowerBook G4/500s in almost the same amount of space as the $2,495 16 MHz 386sx-based Brick.". I got the CPU, power supply, manual, and a carrying case. The keyboard was missing. From menadeau at attbi.com Thu Jan 2 18:19:00 2003 From: menadeau at attbi.com (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp makes it to the big time References: <200301021729.LAA09738@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <001a01c2b2bd$c3f26140$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> I told him about the 1993 book, but I think he's referring to the present tense. The Haddock book is long out of print. --Mike Michael Nadeau Editor/Publisher Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource www.classictechpub.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 12:29 PM Subject: Re: ClassicCmp makes it to the big time > > > > An article from Reuters: > > > > New Appreciation for Old Computers > > > > http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=AS0NHSMHVCPNOCRBAEOCFEY? type=technologyNews&storyID=1980873 > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > > Hmm, the article is incorrect when it states that the price guide "collectible > computers" is the only one of its kind. In 1993, "a collectors guide to > personal computers and pocket calculators" was published. > > -Lawrence LeMay From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Jan 2 18:24:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing continues... Message-ID: <200301030027.QAA11251@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Sellam Ismail" > >On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > >> > The main problem I'm having is reading the control lines of the 6522. >> > According to the spec sheet, CB1, CB2 and CA2 are all supposed to be TTL >> > level outputs when programmed for such. So they are, but I'm having >> >> Do you mean output or input here? If you're reading a pin, then I would >> have assumed you were using it as an input. > >Sorry for confusing the hell out of anyone. I meant input. From the 6522 >datasheet: > >"CA1 is a high impedance input, while CA2 represents one standard TTL load >in the input mode." > >...and regarding CB1 and CB2... > >"Each control line represents one standard TTL load in the input mode and >can drive one TTL load in the output mode." > >> Try a pull-up instead (TTL sinks a lot better than it sources). In other >> words change the end of the resistor from ground to +5V >> >> make this +5V >> | >> V >> > READER SIGNAL----+----/\/\/\-------GND >> > | >> > | >> > 6522 CB2 > >Wouldn't this give me a default state of logical true on the input pin? Hi For a TTL, one normally has an open pin set to one. One pulls it to zero to be active. Ever notice that all of the strobes and such for things like parallel ports on a PC are always negative. For those pins that you are using as inputs, make sure that you've set the direction register correctly. Dwight > >> If you still have problems, then maybe the driver chip in the M200 has >> died. It happens. I've had a couple of HP9810 calculators across my bench >> where there were 10 or so dead TTL chips (74Hxxx TTL chips especially) >> that appeared to work, but which couldn't give a proper output signal, >> so the chip it was connected to didn't always get the right logic level. > >Well, it works, just not all the time. So from what John has told me, it >seems like the signal is just being lost half the time. > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Jan 2 18:27:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing continues... Message-ID: <200301030030.QAA11255@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Sellam Ismail" >On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >> >On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, John Lawson wrote: >> > >> >> On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >> >> >> >> > I've got the PICK CHECK signal from the reader going into CB2. I have >> a >> >> > 1K resistor going from CB2 to ground. >> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >> Try changing to 5K or even 10K (what I always use for pull ups/downs in >> >> TTL work. I think you're burying the poor PICK CHECK signal. Actually >> >> all the resistors oughta be 10K, IMHO. >> > >> >I'll certainly try that. But I'm wondering why that should be necessary >> >when the 6522 data sheet says that particular pin is a TTL level output. >> >> Hi >> I thought you were using the pin as an input. As an input, >> there is no pullup and a floating pin would not be good. > >The pin is an input, but it's normal state is to be off/false. Therefore, >John's suggestion to put a pulldown resistor on it seems logical. It >should be normally off, and the M200 should bring it high when it wants to >signal the PICK CHECK error. > >I'm trying to troubleshoot a more pressing problem right now: the reader >is picking 5 cards before the Apple thinks 80 Index Marks (e.g. 80 >characters) have been detected. Either my code is wrong, my code is slow, >or the Apple is too slow to handle the reader input (in which case this >was all for naught). Hi It sounds like something is wrong. Are you reading with BASIC or at code level. I would think that assembly code should be able to keep up, as long as you were not expecting it to transfer to disk while reading. Does the M200 have any kind of handshake? Dwight > >I'm heading off to Radio Shack to take a mental break and to get some >resistors and to see if they can offer me more than just blank stares. > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jan 2 18:34:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: Two great Finds Today In-Reply-To: from "Keys" at Jan 02, 2003 06:20:46 PM Message-ID: <200301030036.h030agi23986@shell1.aracnet.com> > At the auction I got something called "The Brick" by Ergo computing Inc.. > It's a cool looking 386SX-16 as per this article from a google search: "The > Ergo Brick, a 3" x 8" x 11" totable PC, was billed as the "cure for the > common computer." With a keyboard and monitor at home, another at work, it > gave desktop power in a portable package. Today you could fit three > PowerBook G4/500s in almost the same amount of space as the $2,495 16 MHz > 386sx-based Brick.". I got the CPU, power supply, manual, and a carrying > case. The keyboard was missing. Hey, that's pretty cool. I remember drooling over adds for those around 1990! If you look through issues of "PC Magazine" from about that timeframe you should be able to find the adds. Of course I didn't remember it being so big... Didn't they give it a greyish bricklike finish? Zane From menadeau at attbi.com Thu Jan 2 18:48:01 2003 From: menadeau at attbi.com (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: Two great Finds Today References: <012e01c2b2bd$f7973480$d450ef42@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <008501c2b2c1$ebe857a0$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> The Ergo Brick was a well-made system and innovative for its time. We had a unit at BYTE, and it was popular with the editors. The company held on for a few years, but couldn't compete with the bigger manufacturers. Also, the Brick lost its relevancy as notebook computers became more powerful and reliable. I would hold onto your find, as I don't think many were made. --Mike Michael Nadeau Editor/Publisher Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource www.classictechpub.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keys" To: "cctalk@classiccmp" Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 7:20 PM Subject: Two great Finds Today > A friend stopped me in the parking lot of an auction today and gave me a box > full of computer stuff and in it was a TI-74 BASICALC with a carrying case > and 8k RAM module in it. Also it came with a Quick Reference Card for Basic > Syntax. > > At the auction I got something called "The Brick" by Ergo computing Inc.. > It's a cool looking 386SX-16 as per this article from a google search: "The > Ergo Brick, a 3" x 8" x 11" totable PC, was billed as the "cure for the > common computer." With a keyboard and monitor at home, another at work, it > gave desktop power in a portable package. Today you could fit three > PowerBook G4/500s in almost the same amount of space as the $2,495 16 MHz > 386sx-based Brick.". I got the CPU, power supply, manual, and a carrying > case. The keyboard was missing. > From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 2 19:08:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing continues... In-Reply-To: <200301030030.QAA11255@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >I'm trying to troubleshoot a more pressing problem right now: the reader > >is picking 5 cards before the Apple thinks 80 Index Marks (e.g. 80 > >characters) have been detected. Either my code is wrong, my code is slow, > >or the Apple is too slow to handle the reader input (in which case this > >was all for naught). > > It sounds like something is wrong. Are you reading with BASIC > or at code level. I would think that assembly code should be able > to keep up, as long as you were not expecting it to transfer to > disk while reading. Does the M200 have any kind of handshake? I'm not so sure. Here's what I know: 6502 operates at roughly 1,000,000 cycles per second. I wrote a very tight code loop to simply look for the READY signal from the reader, and then count Index Marks, as quickly as it can. Here's the relevant loop code (the number is parentheses at the end of the comment is the number of cycles that instruction takes): LDX #$00 LOOP LDA $C0C1 ; Get the data at 6522 Port A (4) AND #$08 ; Bit 4 is the RDY signal input (4) BEQ LOOP ; Loop until it goes true (2) WAIT LDA $C0C1 ; Now wait until it goes false (4) AND #$08 ; (4) BEQ WAIT ; (2) INX ; Increment the count (2) INC $06 ; Increment a zero page location* (6) CPX #$50 ; 80 Index Marks yet? (4) BNE LOOP ; No? Keeping looping (2) * So I can view the resulting value when I reset the computer to break out of the loop So counting up the cycles to read the index mark, it's 10 to wait for it to go true, 10 for it to go false, then 14 to increment a counter and go back to the top of the loop. The timing diagram of the M200 says that the Index Mark is pulsed for 6 microseconds. Now, if I'm computing this right, that is already less time than it takes for the 6502 to wait for the pulse to fall back to false from true. The 6502 takes 10 cycles, or roughly 10 microseconds, assuming a cycle is equivalent to a microsecond. Further, the timing diagram of the M200 shows that there are 1314 microseconds of time to read the column data, and 2014 microseconds between Index Marks. This should be enough time for the 6502 to read and store the data, then loop again. This is one fast reader. But too fast for the 6502 me thinks. :( Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Thu Jan 2 19:13:00 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: DEC TU-56 & TD8E Message-ID: <1041556525.11464.9.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> I believe I now have my TU-56 and TD8E working. When I mount a tape and attempt to boot my one OS/8 tape it loads to the point of printing "SYSTEM ERR" on the teletype. I strongly suspect that the tape is probably corrupt. I'm wondering if there is anyone out there who would be willing to copy any kind of Bootable PDP-8/E tape for me so I can test with a known good tape. I would be more than willing to provide a couple of tapes for the copy. -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Jan 2 19:23:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: Two great Finds Today References: <200301030036.h030agi23986@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <015201c2b2c7$0786dc70$d450ef42@oemcomputer> Yes the finish is what's so cool about it. And the fact that you can hold the entire thing in one hand. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 6:36 PM Subject: Re: Two great Finds Today > > At the auction I got something called "The Brick" by Ergo computing Inc.. > > It's a cool looking 386SX-16 as per this article from a google search: "The > > Ergo Brick, a 3" x 8" x 11" totable PC, was billed as the "cure for the > > common computer." With a keyboard and monitor at home, another at work, it > > gave desktop power in a portable package. Today you could fit three > > PowerBook G4/500s in almost the same amount of space as the $2,495 16 MHz > > 386sx-based Brick.". I got the CPU, power supply, manual, and a carrying > > case. The keyboard was missing. > > Hey, that's pretty cool. I remember drooling over adds for those around > 1990! If you look through issues of "PC Magazine" from about that timeframe > you should be able to find the adds. Of course I didn't remember it being > so big... > > Didn't they give it a greyish bricklike finish? > > Zane > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Jan 2 19:25:01 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: Two great Finds Today References: <012e01c2b2bd$f7973480$d450ef42@oemcomputer> <008501c2b2c1$ebe857a0$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> Message-ID: <015801c2b2c7$54de0e30$d450ef42@oemcomputer> Thanks for the info and I found so old Byte articles on the unit using google. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Nadeau" To: Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 6:49 PM Subject: Re: Two great Finds Today > The Ergo Brick was a well-made system and innovative for its time. We had a > unit at BYTE, and it was popular with the editors. The company held on for a > few years, but couldn't compete with the bigger manufacturers. Also, the > Brick lost its relevancy as notebook computers became more powerful and > reliable. I would hold onto your find, as I don't think many were made. > > --Mike > > Michael Nadeau > Editor/Publisher > Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource > www.classictechpub.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Keys" > To: "cctalk@classiccmp" > Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 7:20 PM > Subject: Two great Finds Today > > > > A friend stopped me in the parking lot of an auction today and gave me a > box > > full of computer stuff and in it was a TI-74 BASICALC with a carrying case > > and 8k RAM module in it. Also it came with a Quick Reference Card for > Basic > > Syntax. > > > > At the auction I got something called "The Brick" by Ergo computing Inc.. > > It's a cool looking 386SX-16 as per this article from a google search: > "The > > Ergo Brick, a 3" x 8" x 11" totable PC, was billed as the "cure for the > > common computer." With a keyboard and monitor at home, another at work, it > > gave desktop power in a portable package. Today you could fit three > > PowerBook G4/500s in almost the same amount of space as the $2,495 16 MHz > > 386sx-based Brick.". I got the CPU, power supply, manual, and a carrying > > case. The keyboard was missing. > > > > From pcw at mesanet.com Thu Jan 2 19:28:00 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing continues... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > > >I'm trying to troubleshoot a more pressing problem right now: the reader > > >is picking 5 cards before the Apple thinks 80 Index Marks (e.g. 80 > > >characters) have been detected. Either my code is wrong, my code is slow, > > >or the Apple is too slow to handle the reader input (in which case this > > >was all for naught). > > > > It sounds like something is wrong. Are you reading with BASIC > > or at code level. I would think that assembly code should be able > > to keep up, as long as you were not expecting it to transfer to > > disk while reading. Does the M200 have any kind of handshake? > > I'm not so sure. Here's what I know: > > 6502 operates at roughly 1,000,000 cycles per second. > > I wrote a very tight code loop to simply look for the READY signal from > the reader, and then count Index Marks, as quickly as it can. Here's the > relevant loop code (the number is parentheses at the end of the comment > is the number of cycles that instruction takes): > > LDX #$00 > LOOP LDA $C0C1 ; Get the data at 6522 Port A (4) > AND #$08 ; Bit 4 is the RDY signal input (4) > BEQ LOOP ; Loop until it goes true (2) > WAIT LDA $C0C1 ; Now wait until it goes false (4) > AND #$08 ; (4) > BEQ WAIT ; (2) > INX ; Increment the count (2) > INC $06 ; Increment a zero page location* (6) > CPX #$50 ; 80 Index Marks yet? (4) > BNE LOOP ; No? Keeping looping (2) > > * So I can view the resulting value when I reset the computer to break out > of the loop > > So counting up the cycles to read the index mark, it's 10 to wait for it > to go true, 10 for it to go false, then 14 to increment a counter and go > back to the top of the loop. > > The timing diagram of the M200 says that the Index Mark is pulsed for 6 > microseconds. Now, if I'm computing this right, that is already less time > than it takes for the 6502 to wait for the pulse to fall back to false > from true. The 6502 takes 10 cycles, or roughly 10 microseconds, assuming > a cycle is equivalent to a microsecond. > > Further, the timing diagram of the M200 shows that there are 1314 > microseconds of time to read the column data, and 2014 microseconds > between Index Marks. This should be enough time for the 6502 to read and > store the data, then loop again. > > This is one fast reader. But too fast for the 6502 me thinks. Not really if you do one several possible things: 1. Generate an interrupt from the index mark (can the 6522/card do this?) Or 2. Put a oneshot or flip flop on the index mark signal so its pulse can be seen by the 6502... ~500 cycles per second is not a problem, the 6 uSec strobe is... > > :( > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 2 20:13:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing continues... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > This is one fast reader. But too fast for the 6502 me thinks. > > Not really if you do one several possible things: > > > 1. Generate an interrupt from the index mark (can the 6522/card do this?) Yes, it can. But I'd rather not get into interrupt programming at this point. Maybe at a later phase when I polish this up. > 2. Put a oneshot or flip flop on the index mark signal so its pulse can be > seen by the 6502... Now that can be done pretty handily with the 6522. I can switch the IM signal to one of the control lines, which will latch the signal. Good idea ;) Now I'll have to get that CA1 control line working for sure, which I've been avoiding since it still seems dodgy, even with the pull-up. I'm already using the CA2, CB1 and CB2 lines for other signals. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From spc at conman.org Thu Jan 2 21:34:01 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing continues... In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jan 02, 2003 05:09:18 PM Message-ID: <200301030337.WAA14064@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Sellam Ismail once stated: > > On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > > >I'm trying to troubleshoot a more pressing problem right now: the reader > > >is picking 5 cards before the Apple thinks 80 Index Marks (e.g. 80 > > >characters) have been detected. Either my code is wrong, my code is slow, > > >or the Apple is too slow to handle the reader input (in which case this > > >was all for naught). > > > > It sounds like something is wrong. Are you reading with BASIC > > or at code level. I would think that assembly code should be able > > to keep up, as long as you were not expecting it to transfer to > > disk while reading. Does the M200 have any kind of handshake? > > I'm not so sure. Here's what I know: > > 6502 operates at roughly 1,000,000 cycles per second. > > I wrote a very tight code loop to simply look for the READY signal from > the reader, and then count Index Marks, as quickly as it can. Here's the > relevant loop code (the number is parentheses at the end of the comment > is the number of cycles that instruction takes): > > LDX #$00 > LOOP LDA $C0C1 ; Get the data at 6522 Port A (4) > AND #$08 ; Bit 4 is the RDY signal input (4) > BEQ LOOP ; Loop until it goes true (2) > WAIT LDA $C0C1 ; Now wait until it goes false (4) > AND #$08 ; (4) > BEQ WAIT ; (2) > INX ; Increment the count (2) > INC $06 ; Increment a zero page location* (6) > CPX #$50 ; 80 Index Marks yet? (4) > BNE LOOP ; No? Keeping looping (2) First off, while I can't say this for sure on the 6502, I do know that the 6809 had two cycle counts for the various branches; one for branch taken and one for not (although that may have been for the long branches---my reference material is packed away somewhere), so you may be one or two cycles off your count. Now, going through the code: LOOP LDA $C0C1 ; (4) AND #$08 ; (4) BEQ LOOP ; (2) - loop back if bit is zero WAIT LDA $C0C1 ; (4) AND #$08 ; (4) BEQ WAIT ; (2) - loop back if bit is zero Now, are you *sure* that is what you want? Your comments on LOOP make sense---wait until the bit goes 1, but for WAIT, you say you are waiting until it goes zero, but the code doesn't match that comment. That might be your problem right there. Since my 6502 reference is packed away (sigh---most of my computer reference is packed away) does the INX/DEX instructions affect the flags? If so, you may be able to shave some time off: LDX #80 LOOP LDA $C0C1 ; (4) AND #$08 ; (4) BEQ LOOP ; (2) (10 per loop) WAIT LDA $C0C1 ; (4) AND #$08 ; (4) BNE WAIT ; (2) (10 per loop-bug fix as well?) INC $06 ; (6) DEX ; (2) BNE LOOP ; (2) Save four cycles if DEX does affect the flags. > * So I can view the resulting value when I reset the computer to break out > of the loop > > So counting up the cycles to read the index mark, it's 10 to wait for it > to go true, 10 for it to go false, then 14 to increment a counter and go > back to the top of the loop. > > The timing diagram of the M200 says that the Index Mark is pulsed for 6 > microseconds. Now, if I'm computing this right, that is already less time > than it takes for the 6502 to wait for the pulse to fall back to false > from true. The 6502 takes 10 cycles, or roughly 10 microseconds, assuming > a cycle is equivalent to a microsecond. Can you change the location of the status bit? If you can make it so that bit 7 of $C0C1 is the status bit you can save four cycles per loop: LOOP LDA $C0C1 ; (4) BPL LOOP ; (2) wait until status bit goes high WAIT LDA $C0C1 ; (4) BMI WAIT ; (2) wait for status bit to go low I think the 6502 sets flags on loading the accumulator; if so, then changing the status bit to be bit 7 will cause the Negative Flag to reflect the state of bit 7---this gets rid the explicit compare and brings you within range. -spc (But better check the flags for each instruction) From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Jan 2 21:47:00 2003 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: Pinout for EECO Tape Reader? Message-ID: <20030102194632.Q9168-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Figured I'd ask before I put a lot of time into sorting the thing out the hard way. Anyone have the pinouts for an EECO TES-9301 8 level punched tape reader/spooler? I expect parallel with status and control lines, but like many critters it comes out on a DB25 connector and I have no docs on it... Thanks; -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From david_comley at yahoo.com Thu Jan 2 22:08:00 2003 From: david_comley at yahoo.com (David Comley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: PDP11/73 power-up codes Message-ID: <20030103041110.30390.qmail@web13506.mail.yahoo.com> I'm sure this is a familiar question to many - does anyone have a list of the two-digit codes displayed on the PDP11-73 during power-up ? I am resurrecting a dormant unit which stops at '1' (I have only the CPU and memory installed in the backplane) I'm not sure if this is a good or a bad code. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, David Comley __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From charles at socketcom.com Thu Jan 2 22:49:19 2003 From: charles at socketcom.com (Charles Ader) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: Pinout for EECO Tape Reader? References: <20030102194632.Q9168-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <000601c2b2e3$c50a44a0$2200a8c0@homeportal.2wire.net> I don't have the pin out for the ECCO but it may be the same as the Remex RR-7300 paper tape reader. The Remex has a 25-pin D-type male connector mounted on its interface board. The pin out is: 1 - Data track 1 (out) 14 - System ready (out) active low 2 - Data track 2 (out) 15 - External Inhibit (in) active low 3 - Data track 3 (out) 16 - Drive Right (in) active low 4 - Data track 4 (out) 17 - Drive Left (in) active low 5 - Data track 5 (out) 18 - High Speed (in) active low 6 - Data track 6 (out) 19 - not used 7 - Data track 7 (out) 20 - not used 8 - Data track 8 (out) 21 - not used 9 - Data Ready (out) 22 - not used 10 - Mode Select (in) 23 - +5 Vdc 11 - Signal Ground 24 - Signal Ground 12 - Signal Ground 25 - Chassis Ground 13 - Signal Ground Model Select HIGH, Data Track 1-8 and Data Ready asserted is LOW. Model Select LOW, Data Track 1-8 and Data Ready asserted is HIGH. Drive signal should remain asserted until Data Ready is negated. To stop on character the drive signal must be negated within 0.750 milliseconds of Data Ready being asserted. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Willing" To: Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 7:49 PM Subject: Pinout for EECO Tape Reader? > Figured I'd ask before I put a lot of time into sorting the thing out the > hard way. > > Anyone have the pinouts for an EECO TES-9301 8 level punched tape > reader/spooler? > > I expect parallel with status and control lines, but like many critters it > comes out on a DB25 connector and I have no docs on it... > > Thanks; > -jim > --- > jimw@agora.rdrop.com > The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw > From d-gordon at sbcglobal.net Thu Jan 2 23:01:00 2003 From: d-gordon at sbcglobal.net (Dave) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: Pinout tapes In-Reply-To: <000601c2b2e3$c50a44a0$2200a8c0@homeportal.2wire.net> Message-ID: I have several of the tapes with various tests such as basic logic, diagnostics and other tests. Are these valuable? They are dated 1975 to 1978. -Dave From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 2 23:26:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing continues... In-Reply-To: <200301030337.WAA14064@conman.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > > LDX #$00 > > LOOP LDA $C0C1 ; Get the data at 6522 Port A (4) > > AND #$08 ; Bit 4 is the RDY signal input (4) > > BEQ LOOP ; Loop until it goes true (2) > > WAIT LDA $C0C1 ; Now wait until it goes false (4) > > AND #$08 ; (4) > > BEQ WAIT ; (2) > > INX ; Increment the count (2) > > INC $06 ; Increment a zero page location* (6) > > CPX #$50 ; 80 Index Marks yet? (4) > > BNE LOOP ; No? Keeping looping (2) > > First off, while I can't say this for sure on the 6502, I do know that the > 6809 had two cycle counts for the various branches; one for branch taken and > one for not (although that may have been for the long branches---my > reference material is packed away somewhere), so you may be one or two > cycles off your count. Indeed, this is the case, as I found out after I finally dug up my copy of the 6502 opcode timings. Branches expend an extra cycle if they are taken. > Now, going through the code: > > LOOP LDA $C0C1 ; (4) > AND #$08 ; (4) > BEQ LOOP ; (2) - loop back if bit is zero > > WAIT LDA $C0C1 ; (4) > AND #$08 ; (4) > BEQ WAIT ; (2) - loop back if bit is zero > > Now, are you *sure* that is what you want? Your comments on LOOP make > sense---wait until the bit goes 1, but for WAIT, you say you are waiting > until it goes zero, but the code doesn't match that comment. Sorry, typo. The BEQ in the WAIT loop should be a BNE. > That might be your problem right there. The code was correct. My transliteration was not. > Since my 6502 reference is packed away (sigh---most of my computer > reference is packed away) does the INX/DEX instructions affect the flags? Yes, they do. > If so, you may be able to shave some time off: > > LDX #80 > LOOP LDA $C0C1 ; (4) > AND #$08 ; (4) > BEQ LOOP ; (2) (10 per loop) > WAIT LDA $C0C1 ; (4) > AND #$08 ; (4) > BNE WAIT ; (2) (10 per loop-bug fix as well?) > INC $06 ; (6) > DEX ; (2) > BNE LOOP ; (2) > > Save four cycles if DEX does affect the flags. Well, this was just test code and the timing doesn't matter too much. It just affirmed that not all the Index Mark signals were being caught in time (56 out of 80 was average). > Can you change the location of the status bit? If you can make it so that > bit 7 of $C0C1 is the status bit you can save four cycles per loop: > > LOOP LDA $C0C1 ; (4) > BPL LOOP ; (2) wait until status bit goes high > WAIT LDA $C0C1 ; (4) > BMI WAIT ; (2) wait for status bit to go low Yes and no. This would indeed save cycles, but logically it would break my decoder routine. I've re-worked the inputs and the reader control code and now have the Index Marks latch into CA1 (I finally got it to work reliably with a 10K pull-up resistor). Now when I get an Index Mark I have something like 2000 cycles to read the data and reset the IM latch (there are enough cycles to decode the data in realtime, but I'll do that after I've got it working right). The problem I'm having now is timing out too quickly on the first column read of the first card. According to the M200 docs I thought I had only a few dozen microseconds to sense the first IM but it is timing out with an 8-bit counter set to 255 and polling the IM signal in a loop that takes about 14 cycles (14 * 255 = ~3500 cycles). I'm alllllllmost there... Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 2 23:29:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: Pinout tapes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Dave wrote: > I have several of the tapes with various tests such as basic logic, > diagnostics and other tests. Are these valuable? They are dated 1975 to > 1978. -Dave But what machine are they for? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jan 2 23:47:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: Pinout tapes In-Reply-To: from "Dave" at Jan 02, 2003 09:04:18 PM Message-ID: <200301030550.h035oJx03928@shell1.aracnet.com> > I have several of the tapes with various tests such as basic logic, > diagnostics and other tests. Are these valuable? They are dated 1975 to > 1978. > > -Dave Define 'valuable'. Do you mean monetarily, historically, or...? Zane From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 3 01:16:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: Finally, SUCCESS! (Re: M200 interfacing continues...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ok, being that CA1 on my rig is definitely screwy, I moved the ERROR signal (which hardly, if ever, gets triggered) over to it and moved the Index Mark signal to CA2 (which is triggering reliably), fixed some bugs, and I got one whole card read in! The data was almost complete with some NULLs in the data. It turns out my decoding routine was not properly decoding row 9. I fixed that and voila, one (misinterpreted) FORTRAN code line! I am using the IBM EBCDIC character table right now which is why I say "misinterpreted". I just need to fix it to the classic FORTRAN character set and that's it. The way I designed this, I have a table that contains the characters for the cards being read. You either have to know what character set the cards are using or figure it out somehow, then load that character table into the character space so the cards decode properly. The last step will be to shoot the data out the serial port and I'll have myself one punch card to serial data converter. Thanks VERY, VERY much to all who helped, especially Mr. Lawson, Mr. Duell, and Mr. Dunnington. Thanks also to Mr. McConnell for linking me up with Doug Jones' punch card information, which was especially invaluable. And of course, special thanks to David Gesswein for providing the documenation which I used extensively throughout this project. It'll be nice to get an original manual for the reader eventually (anyone have a copy they're willing to part with? :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From spc at conman.org Fri Jan 3 01:22:01 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing continues... In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jan 02, 2003 09:27:13 PM Message-ID: <200301030724.CAA14870@conman.org> In the original message, Sellam said: > > The timing diagram of the M200 says that the Index Mark is pulsed for 6 > microseconds. Now, if I'm computing this right, that is already less time > than it takes for the 6502 to wait for the pulse to fall back to false > from true. The 6502 takes 10 cycles, or roughly 10 microseconds, assuming > a cycle is equivalent to a microsecond. But in this message, Sellam said: > > The problem I'm having now is timing out too quickly on the first column > read of the first card. According to the M200 docs I thought I had only > a few dozen microseconds to sense the first IM but it is timing out with > an 8-bit counter set to 255 and polling the IM signal in a loop that > takes about 14 cycles (14 * 255 = ~3500 cycles). It actually sounds like the timing is 6 milliseconds, not 6 uSecs as originally stated. If it is indeed 6 milliseconds, you then need to pause for 6,000 cycles. -spc (But it sounds like you may know that already ... ) From rhudson at cnonline.net Fri Jan 3 01:50:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: This Old Scope Message-ID: <8A555C42-1EF0-11D7-BAEB-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Hi, In the San Jose, CA area... I have a tektronix type 310A o'scope that needs some help in the horz. sweep area. I am not well versed in the art of component level repair. What can I do to get this guy back up and running? Thanks for your help! Ron. From tim at tim-mann.org Fri Jan 3 01:54:12 2003 From: tim at tim-mann.org (Tim Mann) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: Model III TRSDOS directories Message-ID: <20030102235723.3e2bd25d.tim@tim-mann.org> In case Sellam or others are still looking for info, I happened to find a pretty good summary of the Model III TRSDOS directory details on Ira Goldklang's www.trs-80.com site. See http://www.trs-80.com/trs80-pd.htm#mod3dir. -- Tim Mann tim@tim-mann.org http://www.tim-mann.org/ From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 3 02:40:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing continues... In-Reply-To: <200301030724.CAA14870@conman.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > > The problem I'm having now is timing out too quickly on the first column > > read of the first card. According to the M200 docs I thought I had only > > a few dozen microseconds to sense the first IM but it is timing out with > > an 8-bit counter set to 255 and polling the IM signal in a loop that > > takes about 14 cycles (14 * 255 = ~3500 cycles). > > It actually sounds like the timing is 6 milliseconds, not 6 uSecs as > originally stated. If it is indeed 6 milliseconds, you then need to pause > for 6,000 cycles. Actually, it is indeed 6 uSecs. The problem I eventually had was a dodgy input on the 6522. Once I moved it to another pin it started working. Peter Wallace's suggestion of moving it to a latched input was the key. Since the signal is usually too fast for the Apple to catch while it is doing other processing, latching it enabled the Apple to catch it, after which there was plenty of time (~2000 cycles) to play with the data before the next column is read. I have the Index Mark input on CA2 and it's working flawlessly. I just ran a few batches of the different cards I am converting and everything is coming out swimmingly. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 3 02:40:35 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: Model III TRSDOS directories In-Reply-To: <20030102235723.3e2bd25d.tim@tim-mann.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Tim Mann wrote: > In case Sellam or others are still looking for info, I happened to find > a pretty good summary of the Model III TRSDOS directory details on Ira > Goldklang's www.trs-80.com site. See > http://www.trs-80.com/trs80-pd.htm#mod3dir. Yes, I'm still interested. Thanks for the link! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Fri Jan 3 03:06:04 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: OS/2 manuals References: Message-ID: <3E15537D.884602F6@Vishay.com> Patrick, well, in your case, I'll make an exception and ship to the US. I will, however, yet have to find out about shipping costs. The package weighs something between 2 and 3kg, so I guess it may be something around 30 Euro. I promise not to charge more than actual shipping cost if you are the winning bidder. Two words of caution: 1) This is a German language version of OS/2. I assume that the included manuals will also be in German. 2) I have no Paypal or similar account, so you will have to do an international bank transfer. No idea about possible cost or effort... Customs, however, should not be a problem: the commercial value will be negligible, and I am ready to confirm this in written if required. Go and prove me wrong! Maybe you can have it for only the cost of shipping (which is expensive enough...), plus the usual 1.00 Euro. I'd definitely rather send it to someone who can do something useful with it than toss it! Good luck! Andreas Patrick Finnegan schrieb: > > On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > > > Chris, > > > > given that I have an original OS/2 (Version 2.11) package, unopened, > > still sealed, up on (German) eBay for a couple of days now, and it did > > not attract any offers so far, I assume that your manuals will probably > > have no merchandising value. See > > http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2084022487 if you want > > to compare. > > > > However, I'd welcome anybody to prove me wrong! ;-) > > > > Happy new year, everybody! > > Andreas > > Andreas, if you were selling that in North America, I would probably bid > on it... > > Pat > -- > Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Jan 3 03:13:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing continues... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > I just ran a few batches of the different cards I am converting and > everything is coming out swimmingly. > Bravo, Sellam! Really great work! Seems a simple modification to the program would allow it to read paper tape as well..... Cheers John From rschaefe at gcfn.org Fri Jan 3 05:33:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: Fw: [rescue] Fwd: anybody want a vax 6400, sa600, tu81+? Message-ID: <015b01c2b31c$67a1ac20$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave McGuire" To: Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 11:09 PM Subject: [rescue] Fwd: anybody want a vax 6400, sa600, tu81+? > Someone *please* rescue this. I'd do it myself but I have no way to > get it to this coast. Contact Paul directly. What he said! > > -Dave > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Paul Vixie > > Date: Thu Jan 2, 2003 10:36:15 PM US/Eastern > > To: port-vax@netbsd.org > > Subject: anybody want a vax 6400, sa600, tu81+? > > > > this was matt thomas's but he left it at isc too long so i'm regifting > > it. > > > > anyone who can come to redwood city can have it. > > > > otherwise it has to go to the scrap yard. > > > > reply to me personally plz. > > > > > > -- > Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." > St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols > _______________________________________________ > rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Fri Jan 3 06:32:00 2003 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: Rescuers in Peoria, IL area? Message-ID: <13799921945.18.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Most of the remains of my collection will become available in the next couple days. Known to be up for grabs here is a PDP-11/44 with a blown PSU (but otherwise working), a PDP-11/34A of unknown configuration, miscellaneous DEC paraphernalia, some MicroVAX stuff, and miscellaneous old modem equipment. Basically, I was thrown out of home some time ago, and left a lot of stuff behind as I had nowhere to take it. My mom is sick of waiting for me to take care of the remaining gear and wants it out, now. I have 3 weeks to move it or it goes to the dump. I have nowhere to take it and no foreseeable future for any of it in my possession. For some twisted reason I am taking the KS10 with me - I guess I don't quite want to admit that my career is over. I don't know how I'm getting it here but I'll push it if I have to, dammit. If nobody is in the area to save anything, I can salvage what I can and scrap the remainder. I'll have to visit the garage in the next couple days to see what exactly is left. I can't afford to ship anything anywhere. If you want something and I have it you have to come to Peoria, IL and get it. All of the boards I had have already been destroyed, as was most of the documentation and paperwork. If I don't get a response by the 10th I will assume nobody is available. Hopefully someone else can get a better run with this stuff than I could. ------- From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 3 07:44:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing continues... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, John Lawson wrote: > Bravo, Sellam! Really great work! Seems a simple modification to the > program would allow it to read paper tape as well..... Actually, I was eyeing the pinouts of that paper tape reader that was posted and was thinking, "Hey, I can build an interface for that" ;) Actually, my next task like this will probably be to get one of my paper tape readers interface so I can start dumping all these paper tapes I have from different systems. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Fri Jan 3 09:44:01 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:00 2005 Subject: OT: Solaris 8 on TP 760EL Message-ID: <3E15B0E7.9E347D56@comcast.net> Apologies, I know this isn't really ClassicCMP related, but I'm hopeful that some of the Solaris admins here can help me out... I installed Solaris 8 2/02 on my Thinkpad 760EL. I chose the deafault end-user collection, plus the freeware file compression utilities... Now, when I start it up, or reboot it, the GUI is fine. But when I only logout, though, I get a bunch of vertical lines across the screen. I also get the lines when I select "Remote Login" from the Option menu on the login screen. Seems like something to do with the display manager restarting. I downloaded and added the XF86 packages from Sun (which included 2 patches), but those drivers were no help. I even found and tried a different .xqa driver description. No go. Anybody have any ideas? Feel free to respond to me directly... -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From rcini at optonline.net Fri Jan 3 10:07:01 2003 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: Epson manual needed Message-ID: Hello, all: This is my first post for 2003 so I'd like to wish everyone a happy and healthy New Year. Over the vacation I dug out my Seiko/Epson 486 computer. It's a POS (point-of-sale) computer that I bought from Timeline two years ago and that I sometimes use for simple PC-based data collection projects. It's a really small 486-based machine with 32mb of RAM and a 10g laptop drive. Unfortunately, I can't find the manual now and Espon's Web site doesn't have it. It's model IM-403/IM-405 (mine is the 405 but the models are essentially the same). If anyone has this and can make a copy, I'd appreciate it. Thanks. Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1936 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030103/e3a029d8/winmail.bin From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Fri Jan 3 11:38:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing continues... Message-ID: <200301031741.JAA11727@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Sellam Ismail" > >On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, John Lawson wrote: > >> Bravo, Sellam! Really great work! Seems a simple modification to the >> program would allow it to read paper tape as well..... > >Actually, I was eyeing the pinouts of that paper tape reader that was >posted and was thinking, "Hey, I can build an interface for that" ;) > >Actually, my next task like this will probably be to get one of my paper >tape readers interface so I can start dumping all these paper tapes I have >from different systems. Hi Sellam You know I have a reader that I connect to a printer port on a PC? You can borrow that any time you want. Dwight > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Fri Jan 3 11:43:01 2003 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: Jay West??? Message-ID: <20030103094455.Q32801-100000@agora.rdrop.com> ...what's your current email address??? (sorry for banging the list with this, but...) -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Fri Jan 3 11:47:01 2003 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: Config info on HP1000 memory? Message-ID: <20030103094550.V32801-100000@agora.rdrop.com> In severe HP mode this week... Does anyone have at hand the information for configuring HP memory boards 12747H and/or 12749H for use in an HP1000 (2117F) computer??? I (finally) have signs of life from the computer, but it does not see any of the memory and I'm going bonkers cycling randomly thru permutations on the DIP switches!!! Unfortnately, in the online archive of the HP1000/e/f/m Engineering Reference Set, section II (covering memory) is missing, as well as sections III, IV, and VIIII. (other relevant parts) AARGH! Thanks!; -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Jan 3 13:54:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: [paul@vix.com: anybody want a vax 6400, sa600, tu81+?] Message-ID: <20030103195453.GA3975@ickis.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Hi. As this is a bit to big to ship across the "big pond"... Please contact Paul directly. ----- Forwarded message from Paul Vixie ----- Delivered-To: port-vax@netbsd.org From: Paul Vixie To: port-vax@netbsd.org Subject: anybody want a vax 6400, sa600, tu81+? X-Mailer: MH-E 7.0; nmh 1.0.4; Emacs 21.2 Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 03:36:15 +0000 Precedence: list this was matt thomas's but he left it at isc too long so i'm regifting it. anyone who can come to redwood city can have it. otherwise it has to go to the scrap yard. reply to me personally plz. ----- End forwarded message ----- -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 3 14:38:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing continues... In-Reply-To: <200301031741.JAA11727@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > You know I have a reader that I connect to a printer port on a PC? > You can borrow that any time you want. I know, but I'm on a roll. This interfacing stuff is fun :) Was there any special magic required to connect it to the parallel port or did you just feed the outputs into the pins of the PC port? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Fri Jan 3 15:43:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing continues... Message-ID: <200301032146.NAA11829@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Sellam Ismail" > >On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >> You know I have a reader that I connect to a printer port on a PC? >> You can borrow that any time you want. > >I know, but I'm on a roll. This interfacing stuff is fun :) > >Was there any special magic required to connect it to the parallel port or >did you just feed the outputs into the pins of the PC port? Hi It depends. Not all parallel ports are created equal. Many are bi-directional though. There are about 3 different flavors. As I recall, I connected the parallel data out to the data lines and ran the strobe to one of the status input lines. There is a start and stop signal that uses to start and stop the tape as well. I can give you a copy of my code. There is a web page, http://www.lvr.com/parport.htm , that has several links to parallel port stuff. Since you are now at the hardware level and on a roll, this is a good place to look. I don't recall if the two drives that you loaned me were parallel or serial outs. I think one was a parallel though. Dwight > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 3 15:53:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: substitute for TI TIL306/307 Display? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20030101182435.46b79dfc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20021231160657.0f370e7a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20021231160657.0f370e7a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030101182435.46b79dfc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030103170023.47cfc732@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:01 PM 1/1/03 -0600, you wrote: >On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, Joe wrote: >> At 10:51 PM 12/31/02 -0600, you wrote: >> >On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, Joe wrote: >> > >> > > Does anyone know of another display that can be substituted for the >> > > TIL 306/307? Here is a data sheet for the 306/307 in case you have a >> > > question about it, . >> > >> > I don't know of an exact replacement offhand, but I thought these were >> > still in production? >> >> Are they? I think mine are about 25 years old. FWIW I went looking for >> some at a large local surplus store and found one that I think is >> prototype. It's built out of clear material instead of red and is marked >> TIXL306 and is date coded 7204 (almost 31 years old!). I went through >> several boxs and THOUSANDs of displays and only found one standard 306 >> and the one prototype. >> >> > How many of these displays are you looking for? I believe I still have >> > a few in my parts bin... >> >> In addition to the one that I found in the store I need three of them. >> Mine were in sockets and the dissimilar metal corrosion has eaten off at >> least one leg off of each of mine. > >Oops, I have TIL311s, not the 306. I was thinking that the 311s were still >in production. I guess the 311 with a built-in BCD controller must still >be useful in current products. The 306/307s also have built in BCD decoders. I've been trying to find a data sheet on the 311 so that I can see what the difference is between it and the 306/307. > >I'll make a note to check a couple of my local surplus dealers over the >next few weeks. If I find any TIL306 displays, I'll pick them up. Should I >also hunt for any 307s? 306's or 307s will work equally well. The one difference between them is that one has the decimal point to the left of the digit and the other has the dp on the right. My unit doesn't use the decimal points so either display will work fine. > >If all else fails, would it be possible to salvage your displays? I've >carefully ground back ceramic and plastic on other dip components to >attach replacement leads in the past, but it isn't a fun task... It's possible but all the leads on them are weak and I'd probably have to eventually replace ALL the leads. Joe > >-Toth > From evan947 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 3 15:54:03 2003 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp makes it to the big time In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030103215640.91853.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Damn press ;) --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 2 Jan 2003 lemay@cs.umn.edu wrote: > > > Hmm, the article is incorrect when it states that > the price guide > > "collectible computers" is the only one of its > kind. In 1993, "a > > collectors guide to personal computers and pocket > calculators" was > > published. > > Of course true, but the values in Haddock's book are > ridiculous. > > Anyway, the fact that he got Micro-Instrumentation > and Telemetry Systems > correct should merit a Pulitzer! > > Sellam Ismail > Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia > at www.VintageTech.com * > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From cmurray at eagle.ca Fri Jan 3 15:56:13 2003 From: cmurray at eagle.ca (C. Murray McCullough) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: New to list Message-ID: <3E160767.3D777770@eagle.ca> Hi new to list Murray-- From jmkatcher at yahoo.com Fri Jan 3 15:56:23 2003 From: jmkatcher at yahoo.com (Jeffrey Katcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: Looking for small NS32000 system Message-ID: <20030102221738.97222.qmail@web41114.mail.yahoo.com> I've been looking for a Symmetric 375, but those seem to be rare as hen's teeth. Does anyone have something like a Whitechapel MG1 or a Tektronix 6130/4132 looking for a new home? Jeffrey Katcher jmkatcher@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From jmkatcher at yahoo.com Fri Jan 3 15:56:26 2003 From: jmkatcher at yahoo.com (Jeffrey Katcher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: Looking for small 32000 system Message-ID: <20030103020142.61895.qmail@web41110.mail.yahoo.com> (Sorry if this is a repeat, but the original didn't appear on the list.) I've been looking for a Symmetric 375 (a rare beast) for sometime without luck and now I'd like to expand my search to other smaller 32000 machines (e.g. Tektronix 63xx/43xx and the lovely Whitechapel MG-1). Anyone looking for a good home for such a machine? Why 32000s? I just like to be different I guess. :) Best regards, Jeffrey Katcher jmkatcher@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From jrengdahl at safeaccess.com Fri Jan 3 15:56:29 2003 From: jrengdahl at safeaccess.com (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: MMJ and custom cables (was: Re: DEC 3000 300X/300) References: <00db01c2b140$25dfea50$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <003e01c2b2d7$5c55b9f0$0200a8c0@Arctura> You can find MMJ cables and connectors in stock at www.l-com.com. To connect a PC to a KDJ11-SD (PDP-11/53, for communicating via VTserver or Kermit), get a REC096FD unassembled connector kit for $6.95 and a TDC067-7D cable for $3.55. Assemble the connector like so: MMJ end : DB9 end yellow----------2 black-----------3 green-----------5 Solder white to blue. Cut the DB9 pin off red, strip some insulation off the middle of green, and solder red to it. Wrap tape around exposed joints. This won't work for the DB9 on the back of a VAX -- I'm pretty sure that has a different pinout than the PC DB9. I also use this cable with some gender benders and null modems to connect a VT420 to the DB25 on the back of the 11/23 or whatever PDP I happen to be working on at the time. With a set of about 7 adapters you can connect anything to just about anything. The adapters are pretty cheap at Cyberguys. L-com also has the crimper and bare MMJ connectors, but for the cost of a crimp-it-yourself kit you can buy a lot of preassembled cables. They even have an MMJ A-B switch. I wonder why they carry these items, and how long they will continue to stock them? -- Jonathan Engdahl ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tothwolf" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 11:47 PM Subject: MMJ and custom cables (was: Re: DEC 3000 300X/300) > On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > > From: "Don Mitchell" > > > > > MMJ connectors are easy to find, and DB25 - MMJ adaptors are also easy > > > to find. Then, all that's needed is 6 conductor flat cable, also easy > > > to find, and an MMJ crimper -- not very easy to find, and expensive. > > > > FYI, Ideal Industries makes an RJ45 & MMJ crimper, cat no. 30-497 > > (http://www.idealindustries.com/dc/Tool.nsf, about halfway down), that > > can be had for less than US$40. > > Ideal also makes a MMJ compatible die set for those of us who already own > a compatible ratcheting crimper. The cost for the die set is around $15 or > less depending on the sales vendor. > > Since we are on the subject of cable building, I'd like to find out just > how much demand there is out there for MMJ and other such hard to find/ > custom cables for classic computers. I've been considering purchasing > tools and materials to build some of these cables, and if demand is high > enough, I'd be willing to build such cables for the cost of materials plus > a nominal amount for other classic computer enthusiasts. This would > certainly help me justify purchasing the required tools and materials, and > would also make some of these hard to find cables easier to obtain. > > -Toth From vance at neurotica.com Fri Jan 3 15:56:33 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: A couple of PS/2 items Message-ID: Hi people. I'm looking for the chassis to a PS/2 Server 95. Not a 95XP, but a 95A. The one with the longer connector plate and two parallel ports. I'd prefer if it was somewhere in the northeastern U.S. The New York area would be optimal. If you want, you can have the PC Server 500 chassis from which I am borrowing the motherboard. Another thing is that I need the people who were interested in the PS/2 100Mbps ethernet cards to email me again. I now am able to send them out. $50+shipping apiece. The third thing is that I am looking for 8MB SIMM's for a PS/2 Model 95. They are the ECC kind. Fourth, I am getting rid of a lot of PS/2 SCSI cards, 286 RAM Expansion cards with RAM, and a couple of 386 RAM Expansion cards with RAM. I also have a couple of other weird MCA cards, so if there's anything in particular you're looking for, let me know. I do have a couple of IBM M-Motion Video Capture Adapter/A's *new in box*, if you're interested. That should be it. Peace... Sridhar From cellhell1 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 3 15:56:36 2003 From: cellhell1 at hotmail.com (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: ATT 6300 Message-ID: I have an ATT 6300 with 640 kb ram, msdos 3.30 keyboard and monitor in working condition. The keys need some prompting but a good cleaning will probably work. I will only sell as a set. jim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030103/d1ef86d4/attachment.html From gmanuel at gmconsulting.net Fri Jan 3 15:56:40 2003 From: gmanuel at gmconsulting.net (G Manuel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: Some old computer systemsof interest Message-ID: Hi Everyone, I have a couple of old systems some of you might be interested in. The first one is a Vector. This is an all in on unit running CPM as the OS. I only have the system for this one. The second is an old Commodore SX-64. For those who don't know it, it is a small portable Commodore 64. It had a small (maybe 5" diagonal) color crt and 5 1/4" disk drive internal. I have many additional peripherals for it including additional 5 1/4" drive, 20MB HD, Memory expansion model (256k), mouse, GEOS OS, HearSay 2000 (speech recognition and speech module) and lots of software. It is in 100% working condition and has been well cared for. If you have any questions about these or other systems please feel free to ask. Greg Manuel From bernd at kopriva.de Fri Jan 3 16:06:00 2003 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: Looking for small NS32000 system In-Reply-To: <20030102221738.97222.qmail@web41114.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <18UZzt-1NNPSyC@fmrl00.sul.t-online.com> Hi Jeffrey, On Thu, 2 Jan 2003 14:17:38 -0800 (PST), Jeffrey Katcher wrote: >I've been looking for a Symmetric 375, but those seem to be rare as hen's >teeth. Does anyone have something like a Whitechapel MG1 or a Tektronix >6130/4132 looking for a new home? ... no, i don't have one ... ... but if you manage to get two offers for a Whitechapel, you can pass one to me :-) Anyway, i'm still looking for a Definicon DSI-32 board ... Bernd > >Jeffrey Katcher >jmkatcher@yahoo.com > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com From Joel.E.Bradley at syntegra.com Fri Jan 3 16:12:00 2003 From: Joel.E.Bradley at syntegra.com (Bradley, Joel E -Syntegra US) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: Some old computer systemsof interest Message-ID: <41C19CA3B7CBD411B59200508B6CBBFF02E66819@AH-Exchange-01.arh.cdc.com> Greg, Are you sure you want to get rid of your SX-64 and not do 'this' to it??? http://sx64.opsys.net/ Joel -----Original Message----- From: G Manuel [mailto:gmanuel@gmconsulting.net] Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 1:00 PM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Some old computer systemsof interest Hi Everyone, I have a couple of old systems some of you might be interested in. The first one is a Vector. This is an all in on unit running CPM as the OS. I only have the system for this one. The second is an old Commodore SX-64. For those who don't know it, it is a small portable Commodore 64. It had a small (maybe 5" diagonal) color crt and 5 1/4" disk drive internal. I have many additional peripherals for it including additional 5 1/4" drive, 20MB HD, Memory expansion model (256k), mouse, GEOS OS, HearSay 2000 (speech recognition and speech module) and lots of software. It is in 100% working condition and has been well cared for. If you have any questions about these or other systems please feel free to ask. Greg Manuel From msell at ontimesupport.com Fri Jan 3 16:13:00 2003 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: New to list In-Reply-To: <3E160767.3D777770@eagle.ca> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030103161400.02ca8008@127.0.0.1> What are your interests? After receiving posts from this group for a while, you'll see that just about *every* aspect of classic computing has several people who are involved. Heck, not too long ago there was a discussion about WWII fire-control equipment! (anybody collect RADAR equipment here?) - Matt At 04:57 PM 1/3/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Hi > > new to list > >Murray-- Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030103/12e8ca12/attachment.html From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jan 3 16:18:00 2003 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: Some old computer systemsof interest In-Reply-To: <41C19CA3B7CBD411B59200508B6CBBFF02E66819@AH-Exchange-01.arh.cdc.com> from "Bradley, Joel E -Syntegra US" at "Jan 3, 3 04:15:09 pm" Message-ID: <200301032230.OAA03626@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Are you sure you want to get rid of your SX-64 and not do 'this' to it??? > http://sx64.opsys.net/ He'd better not, or we'll be at his doorstep with torches and pitchforks. (I'm only half kidding. We'd just use pitchforks, actually.) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I couldn't care less about apathy. ----------------------------------------- From frustum at pacbell.net Fri Jan 3 16:22:01 2003 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: New to list In-Reply-To: <3E160767.3D777770@eagle.ca> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030103141715.01dcb3d0@postoffice.pacbell.net> At 04:57 PM 1/3/03 -0500, Murry wrote: >Hi > > new to list > >Murray-- Hello, Murray. How about more of an introduction? What machines are you interested in? What machines do you have? What machines do you want? What machines do you have but don't want? What systems are you perhaps an "expert" in so other can use you as a resource? Is your interest in hardware? software? both? hands-on or nostalgia? People on the list have a wide range of interests, so identifying your interests will help kindred souls find each other. I hope you find the flood of classiccmp messages ail you are about to get hit with are interesting and/or educational. BTW, the standard definition of "vintage" on this list is 10 years old or older, although many would draw the line at the introduction of the IBM PC! ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 3 16:32:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing continues... In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jan 2, 3 04:03:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1365 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030103/c42f5a81/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 3 16:32:30 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing continues... In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jan 2, 3 05:09:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1342 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030103/5f79ae94/attachment.ksh From marvin at rain.org Fri Jan 3 16:33:01 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: Some old computer systemsof interest References: Message-ID: <3E161042.259FB5DB@rain.org> G Manuel wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > I have a couple of old systems some of you might be interested in. The first > one is a Vector. This is an all in on unit running CPM as the OS. I only > have the system for this one. Sounds like the Vector 4. Does yours have the HD? Mine is missing the HD but I *think* I have an extra one someplace. IIRC, it was 5 Mb in sizek. From rcini at optonline.net Fri Jan 3 16:50:01 2003 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: Commodore C64 Tech Ref Message-ID: Hello, all: Does anyone have a spare copy of this that they can part with? I have most of the info spread over several different help files but I sometimes find it helpful to have the relatively compact original handy. Please contact me off-list. Thanks. Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1660 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030103/e20c677b/winmail.bin From ggs at shiresoft.com Fri Jan 3 17:34:15 2003 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: settings for M7847 Message-ID: <1041636915.23425.472.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Hi, I just received an M7847 16KWord memory card for my PDP-11/10. But I can't find any settings for the switches on it. Any one have any documentation? Thanks. -- TTFN - Guy From glenslick at hotmail.com Fri Jan 3 17:43:01 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: Config info on HP1000 memory? Message-ID: I have a copy of the manual 5955-4311 / Installation and Service Manual / High Performance Memory Systems. It covers the 2102E and 2102H Memory Controllers and the 12741A, 12746H, 12747H, 12779H, and 12780H Memory Modules. (But not the 12749H). My 2117F is configured with a 2101E Memory Controller, (3x) 12749H 256KW Memory Modules, a 12371A Memory Expansion Module, and a 12892B Memory Protect Module. I can pull the boards out of my system and tell you how the dip switches are set if that helps. -Glen >From: James Willing >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >Subject: Config info on HP1000 memory? >Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 09:49:44 -0800 (PST) > >In severe HP mode this week... > >Does anyone have at hand the information for configuring HP memory boards >12747H and/or 12749H for use in an HP1000 (2117F) computer??? > _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From glenslick at hotmail.com Fri Jan 3 17:49:00 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: substitute for TI TIL306/307 Display? Message-ID: http://www-s.ti.com/sc/ds/til311.pdf http://www-s.ti.com/sc/ds/til306.pdf >From: Joe >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: substitute for TI TIL306/307 Display? >Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 17:00:23 > > The 306/307s also have built in BCD decoders. I've been trying to find >a data sheet on the 311 so that I can see what the difference is between it >and the 306/307. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From jschramm97 at sbcglobal.net Fri Jan 3 17:51:00 2003 From: jschramm97 at sbcglobal.net (James G. Schramm) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: New to list In-Reply-To: <3E160767.3D777770@eagle.ca> Message-ID: <000001c2b383$8be259b0$0a01a8c0@home.local> Hi I'm also new to the list. I'm actually more of a collector of Vintage Video Game Systems but Collector computers has always interested me. Thanks -Jimbo -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of C. Murray McCullough Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 3:58 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: New to list Hi new to list Murray-- From d-gordon at sbcglobal.net Fri Jan 3 17:52:00 2003 From: d-gordon at sbcglobal.net (Dave) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: Pinout tapes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The tapes are for a DEC computer and have Digital Equipment Corp stickers on them. And as to my question about value, I am asking about every meaning of the word. How important or common are they? I kind of figured that they could be very useful since they are in BASIC. -Dave > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Sellam Ismail > Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 9:30 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Pinout tapes > > > On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Dave wrote: > > > I have several of the tapes with various tests such as basic logic, > > diagnostics and other tests. Are these valuable? They are dated 1975 to > > 1978. -Dave > > But what machine are they for? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Jan 3 17:58:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: New to list In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030103161400.02ca8008@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: > (anybody collect RADAR equipment here?) Yes, I do. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From ian_primus at yahoo.com Fri Jan 3 18:15:01 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: Some old computer systemsof interest In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0814CE84-1F7A-11D7-9ABA-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> I'm interested in both machines, mainly the Vector. Where are you located, and what do you want for them? Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Friday, January 3, 2003, at 02:00 PM, G Manuel wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I have a couple of old systems some of you might be interested in. The > first > one is a Vector. This is an all in on unit running CPM as the OS. I > only > have the system for this one. > > The second is an old Commodore SX-64. For those who don't know it, it > is a > small portable Commodore 64. It had a small (maybe 5" diagonal) color > crt > and 5 1/4" disk drive internal. I have many additional peripherals for > it > including additional 5 1/4" drive, 20MB HD, Memory expansion model > (256k), > mouse, GEOS OS, HearSay 2000 (speech recognition and speech module) > and lots > of software. It is in 100% working condition and has been well cared > for. If > you have any questions about these or other systems please feel free > to ask. > > Greg Manuel > From ian_primus at yahoo.com Fri Jan 3 18:18:00 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: Some old computer systemsof interest (disregard my last post!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5573E024-1F7A-11D7-9ABA-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Sorry! Please disregard that last post. I realized I forgot to change the address just as I hit "Send"... Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Friday, January 3, 2003, at 02:00 PM, G Manuel wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I have a couple of old systems some of you might be interested in. The > first > one is a Vector. This is an all in on unit running CPM as the OS. I > only > have the system for this one. > > The second is an old Commodore SX-64. For those who don't know it, it > is a > small portable Commodore 64. It had a small (maybe 5" diagonal) color > crt > and 5 1/4" disk drive internal. I have many additional peripherals for > it > including additional 5 1/4" drive, 20MB HD, Memory expansion model > (256k), > mouse, GEOS OS, HearSay 2000 (speech recognition and speech module) > and lots > of software. It is in 100% working condition and has been well cared > for. If > you have any questions about these or other systems please feel free > to ask. > > Greg Manuel > From classiccmp at crash.com Fri Jan 3 18:23:00 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: Looking for small NS32000 system Message-ID: <200301040025.h040Pba06395@io.crash.com> > I've been looking for a Symmetric 375, but those seem to be rare > as hen's teeth. Definitely, and a shame as they seem to have been very nice systems. > Why 32000s? I just like to be different I guess. :) I was fortunate enough to pick up a couple of systems built around the Nat Semi ICM-3216 boardset a little while back. I keep my eyes open for other systems, but am both broke/unemployed and time constrained these days... --Steve. From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Jan 3 18:26:00 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: Config info on HP1000 memory? In-Reply-To: "Glen S"'s message of "Fri, 03 Jan 2003 15:46:23 -0800" References: Message-ID: <200301040007.h0407VkP069593@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Glen S" wrote: > I have a copy of the manual 5955-4311 / Installation and Service Manual / > High Performance Memory Systems. It covers the 2102E and 2102H Memory > Controllers and the 12741A, 12746H, 12747H, 12779H, and 12780H Memory > Modules. (But not the 12749H). Looks like I have a December 1983 edition of this manual that also covers the 12666H and 12749H but not the 12741A. In storage of course. If it would be helpful, I'll try to pull it next time I'm out there (hopefully sometime this weekend). -Frank McConnell From David.Kane at aph.gov.au Fri Jan 3 18:39:00 2003 From: David.Kane at aph.gov.au (Kane, David (DPRS)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: Z8000-Fan Message-ID: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2080B09@email1.parl.net> Hi Dwight, I had also found the CPM8000 executable for the M20 on "The Unofficial CP/M Web site" (www.cpm.z80.de), but the source I grabbed at first only seemed to be for the BIOS and a couple of programs. So I thought that I would have to emulate an M20 for it to be useful. Either that or find a way to compile up a modified BIOS as you suggested. I just looked on the site again and there was a zip file with a more complete set of source. I still have no Z8000 C compiler or assembler but you do, so I might look into this a little more vigorously. David Kane -----Original Message----- From: Dwight K. Elvey [mailto:dwightk.elvey@amd.com] Sent: Friday, 3 January 2003 5:52 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Z8000-Fan Hi David It may not be as hard as you'd think. First, you don't have to cross compile CPM-8000. There already is a CPM-8000. Recently, source and release code was found for this and, working with Chris Groessle, we've managed to bring it up on our Olivetti M20's. This code was originally written for the M20, as it was the only major machine sold with a Z8000 ( there were a few SBC's out there ). The release comes with a C compiler and an assembler. There is source code for the BIOS as well. It does depend on the M20 ROM code for low level access. This CPM was mostly written by a combination of Zilog and DR people. It is mostly written in C with a minimum written in assembly. There are a few issues. Even though the manual says you can get by with only 128K, this would be difficult. Several of the utilities require two 64K chunks ( one for instruction and one for data ). It would be best if the other system functions had there own piece of RAM to work in. One needs to map the memory such that you can access a single 64K as both instruction and data as well as the 128K as 64k instruction and 64k data. The bad news is that we don't have the complete source for the CPM. The BIOS does require that it be compiled on a running CPM-8000. As the documents state, it would be difficult to build it on some other system. Still if someone is willing to write a BIOS for their board, I'd be willing to compile the code for them on my machine. Dwight >From: "Kane, David (DPRS)" > >Hi, > >I always wanted to play with this processor, I just never got the chance. I have a copy of the Zilog "Microcomputer Components - Data Book Feb 1980" and a copy of "Programming the Z8000" (a Sybec book), but that is about as far as I ever got. I was tinkering with the thought of modding the SIMH emulator to include a Z8000 system, but I don't have any details or experience of any real systems. I then though to invent a fictitious S100 system, based on the existing Altair emulation, but with a Z8000 CPU. This could most likely run a CPM8000 system, with the appropriate BDOS changes. But a lot of work would be need to get a set of compilers/cross compilers for the Z8000, either in tracking them down or writing them. I saw recently that BDS C has been put into the public domain with full source, so there might be some avenue there. Still to generate CPM (or MPM) for a fictitious machine would be a mammoth undertaking, I have all the source code needed, just not the compilers. It would require an 8080/Z80 to Z8000 cross assembler (to avoid rewriting all the assembler), a Z8000 PLM compiler, and a Z8000 C compiler. > >Anyway I am declaring myself an unfulfilled fan of the Z8000 processor family. > >David Kane > >-----Original Message----- >From: G?nter Mewes [mailto:info@mewesbus.de] >Sent: Saturday, 28 December 2002 12:49 AM >To: cctech@classiccmp.org >Subject: Z8000-Fan > >Hi Mr. Johnston, >today I was looking for some Z8000 Fans, to talk about experieces ... >Are you interested ? > >Please, be so kind and send a mail. > >Guenter Mewes (www.guentermewes.de) From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 3 19:03:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: New to list In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030103141715.01dcb3d0@postoffice.pacbell.net> from "Jim Battle" at Jan 03, 2003 02:25:15 PM Message-ID: <200301040106.h0416Gh19525@shell1.aracnet.com> > BTW, the standard definition of "vintage" on this list is 10 years old or > older, although many would draw the line at the introduction of the IBM PC! While a lot of us could care less about IBM PC's, there is always the unofficial 'really cool tech' clause that sometimes gets invoked :^) It can cover such stuff as BeBoxes, and NeXT slabs (though I guess NeXT slabs are on topic now). Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 3 19:11:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: New to list In-Reply-To: <000001c2b383$8be259b0$0a01a8c0@home.local> from "James G. Schramm" at Jan 03, 2003 05:55:07 PM Message-ID: <200301040113.h041DXf19828@shell1.aracnet.com> > I'm also new to the list. I'm actually more of a collector of Vintage > Video Game Systems but Collector computers has always interested me. > > Thanks > -Jimbo I think there are several of us here that collect Video Game systems. I didn't collect them until about 2 1/2 years ago. My wife and I have found that, unlike classic computers, game systems are a hobby we both enjoy. In fact she's the one that found the pride of our collection, our Neo Geo 4-slot Arcade system. More and more, I find myself limiting my Classic Computer interests to DEC equipment. Zane From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Fri Jan 3 19:20:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: Z8000-Fan Message-ID: <200301040122.RAA11935@clulw009.amd.com> Hi You need to look a little more. You should find other files that may be named incorrectly as *.z8k. Some of these are actually source files and not executables. Most of the assembly source were called *.8kn. Also, many of the files have some garble at there ends. This was because of the extraction process. If you look at them carefully, you'll see that the text starts to repeat it self at some point. Just delete the repeated text to the end. I may have these files in PC file format after they have been cleaned up. I have gone through the process of starting with the source files for the BIOS and actually creating a new BIOS. I was careful to make sure that it ended up matching the original release image. In anycase, with new BIOS code, I should be able to build another new image. This would be much easier than starting from scratch. When you get done, you'd be able to use the C compiler and assembler that came with this release. I'll go back and see, just which files I used so that you can use the matching ones. There were several different source pieces to hunt through. Some of them were older versions. The 1.1 stuff is actually the most current. The other revs seem to be pre-release stuff. Dwight From: "Kane, David (DPRS)" > >Hi Dwight, > >I had also found the CPM8000 executable for the M20 on "The Unofficial CP/M Web site" (www.cpm.z80.de), but the source I grabbed at first only seemed to be for the BIOS and a couple of programs. So I thought that I would have to emulate an M20 for it to be useful. Either that or find a way to compile up a modified BIOS as you suggested. I just looked on the site again and there was a zip file with a more complete set of source. I still have no Z8000 C compiler or assembler but you do, so I might look into this a little more vigorously. > >David Kane > >-----Original Message----- >From: Dwight K. Elvey [mailto:dwightk.elvey@amd.com] >Sent: Friday, 3 January 2003 5:52 AM >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: RE: Z8000-Fan > >Hi David > It may not be as hard as you'd think. First, you don't have >to cross compile CPM-8000. There already is a CPM-8000. Recently, >source and release code was found for this and, working with Chris >Groessle, we've managed to bring it up on our Olivetti M20's. >This code was originally written for the M20, as it was the only >major machine sold with a Z8000 ( there were a few SBC's out there ). > The release comes with a C compiler and an assembler. There is >source code for the BIOS as well. It does depend on the M20 >ROM code for low level access. This CPM was mostly written by >a combination of Zilog and DR people. It is mostly written in >C with a minimum written in assembly. > There are a few issues. Even though the manual says you can get by >with only 128K, this would be difficult. Several of the utilities >require two 64K chunks ( one for instruction and one for data ). >It would be best if the other system functions had there own piece >of RAM to work in. One needs to map the memory such that you can >access a single 64K as both instruction and data as well as >the 128K as 64k instruction and 64k data. > The bad news is that we don't have the complete source for the >CPM. The BIOS does require that it be compiled on a running CPM-8000. >As the documents state, it would be difficult to build it on >some other system. Still if someone is willing to write a BIOS >for their board, I'd be willing to compile the code for them on >my machine. >Dwight > >>From: "Kane, David (DPRS)" >> >>Hi, >> >>I always wanted to play with this processor, I just never got the chance. I >have a copy of the Zilog "Microcomputer Components - Data Book Feb 1980" and >a copy of "Programming the Z8000" (a Sybec book), but that is about as far >as I ever got. I was tinkering with the thought of modding the SIMH emulator >to include a Z8000 system, but I don't have any details or experience of any >real systems. I then though to invent a fictitious S100 system, based on the >existing Altair emulation, but with a Z8000 CPU. This could most likely run >a CPM8000 system, with the appropriate BDOS changes. But a lot of work would >be need to get a set of compilers/cross compilers for the Z8000, either in >tracking them down or writing them. I saw recently that BDS C has been put >into the public domain with full source, so there might be some avenue >there. Still to generate CPM (or MPM) for a fictitious machine would be a >mammoth undertaking, I have all the source code needed, just not the >compilers. It would require an 8080/Z80 to Z8000 cross assembler (to avoid >rewriting all the assembler), a Z8000 PLM compiler, and a Z8000 C compiler. >> >>Anyway I am declaring myself an unfulfilled fan of the Z8000 processor >family. >> >>David Kane >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: G?nter Mewes [mailto:info@mewesbus.de] >>Sent: Saturday, 28 December 2002 12:49 AM >>To: cctech@classiccmp.org >>Subject: Z8000-Fan >> >>Hi Mr. Johnston, >>today I was looking for some Z8000 Fans, to talk about experieces ... >>Are you interested ? >> >>Please, be so kind and send a mail. >> >>Guenter Mewes (www.guentermewes.de) > > > From rhudson at cnonline.net Fri Jan 3 21:02:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: Some old computer systemsof interest In-Reply-To: <41C19CA3B7CBD411B59200508B6CBBFF02E66819@AH-Exchange-01.arh.cdc.com> Message-ID: <71230376-1F91-11D7-B583-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Friday, January 3, 2003, at 02:15 PM, Bradley, Joel E -Syntegra US wrote: > Greg, > > Are you sure you want to get rid of your SX-64 and not do 'this' to > it??? > > http://sx64.opsys.net/ > > Joel > please no!!! I will give your SX64 a good home, are you near San Jose CA? What do you want for it. I can't afford much. From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Fri Jan 3 21:22:00 2003 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: Looking 4... Message-ID: <20030104032521.427F219C69@www.fastmail.fm> Anybody have a Compaq SLT/286 or a GRiDCase 3 that they want to get rid of for cheap? -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and love email again From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Jan 3 21:31:00 2003 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: Heathkit... Message-ID: <1ab.eb779c2.2b47afeb@aol.com> I've got a 1983 Heathkit catalog I was thinking about scanning each and every page and putting on my website. What's the best way to do this? I was thinking to scan every page in, resample to original size and save as .jpg so they can be read. Good enough? -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Jan 3 21:39:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:01 2005 Subject: Heathkit... In-Reply-To: <1ab.eb779c2.2b47afeb@aol.com> Message-ID: > I've got a 1983 Heathkit catalog I was thinking about scanning each and every > page and putting on my website. What's the best way to do this? I was > thinking to scan every page in, resample to original size and save as .jpg so > they can be read. Good enough? The first thing to do would be to get the OK from Heath... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Fri Jan 3 21:42:00 2003 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: Config info on HP1000 memory? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030103194106.N49330-100000@agora.rdrop.com> On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Glen S wrote: > I have a copy of the manual 5955-4311 / Installation and Service Manual / > High Performance Memory Systems. It covers the 2102E and 2102H Memory > Controllers and the 12741A, 12746H, 12747H, 12779H, and 12780H Memory > Modules. (But not the 12749H). Well... I've got both 12746H and 12749H boards, so it would be step in the right direction. > My 2117F is configured with a 2101E Memory Controller, (3x) 12749H 256KW > Memory Modules, a 12371A Memory Expansion Module, and a 12892B Memory > Protect Module. I can pull the boards out of my system and tell you how the > dip switches are set if that helps. That would work too (if not too much trouble). I think I've only got two 'real' HP 12749H boards and two 'Standard Memories' 256kw boards (anyone grok the switches on THOSE critters), but if three boards work, then I would hope two would as well... Thanks; -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Fri Jan 3 21:45:00 2003 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: Config info on HP1000 memory? In-Reply-To: <200301040007.h0407VkP069593@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <200301040007.h0407VkP069593@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <20030103194529.V49330-100000@agora.rdrop.com> On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Frank McConnell wrote: > "Glen S" wrote: > > I have a copy of the manual 5955-4311 / Installation and Service Manual / > > High Performance Memory Systems. It covers the 2102E and 2102H Memory > > Controllers and the 12741A, 12746H, 12747H, 12779H, and 12780H Memory > > Modules. (But not the 12749H). > > Looks like I have a December 1983 edition of this manual that also > covers the 12666H and 12749H but not the 12741A. In storage of > course. If it would be helpful, I'll try to pull it next time I'm out > there (hopefully sometime this weekend). Oooooooo... specific docs are always a good thing. But I'll leave it to your discresion if you really want to go digging. I think I may be able to sort some things out from the new info that has appeared today. It's worth a shot anyway. But if you should find yourself digging... Thanks; -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Fri Jan 3 22:00:01 2003 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: Looking for small NS32000 system References: <200301040025.h040Pba06395@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <002901c2b3a6$1685b680$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> I always wanted one of those systems - when I was in school - Natsemi was pushing those Genix/unix kits like crazy to all the undergrads - but they turned out to be seriously expensive and the early 32K parts were severely buggy to support a stable system. h > > I've been looking for a Symmetric 375, but those seem to be rare > > as hen's teeth. > > Definitely, and a shame as they seem to have been very nice systems. > > > Why 32000s? I just like to be different I guess. :) > > I was fortunate enough to pick up a couple of systems built around > the Nat Semi ICM-3216 boardset a little while back. > > I keep my eyes open for other systems, but am both broke/unemployed > and time constrained these days... From rschaefe at gcfn.org Fri Jan 3 22:01:01 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: DIY Equipment Racks References: <20021230030644.GB29451@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <003201c2b3a6$7e9da980$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 10:06 PM Subject: DIY Equipment Racks > While thinking about racks to use for mounting my PDP-11/44 Dunno if you are still looking for a rack, but this one's cheap (so far): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20316&item=2085595497 no relation to seller... Bob From msell at ontimesupport.com Fri Jan 3 22:08:00 2003 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: New to list In-Reply-To: <000001c2b383$8be259b0$0a01a8c0@home.local> References: <3E160767.3D777770@eagle.ca> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030103220933.03860ee8@127.0.0.1> Jimbo, What type of vintage games? Console or (gulp) coin-operated? I collect coin operated vintage games - Atari and Bally/Midway. Oh - and vintage compters, of course. : ) - Matt At 05:55 PM 1/3/2003 -0600, you wrote: >Hi >I'm also new to the list. I'm actually more of a collector of Vintage >Video Game Systems but Collector computers has always interested me. > >Thanks >-Jimbo > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] >On Behalf Of C. Murray McCullough >Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 3:58 PM >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: New to list > >Hi > > new to list > >Murray-- Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030103/9d412846/attachment.html From msell at ontimesupport.com Fri Jan 3 22:14:01 2003 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: New to list In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030103161400.02ca8008@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030103221059.039b2500@127.0.0.1> Gee - big surprise.... : ) A doppler weather RADAR would be a neat addition to my Oregon Scientific weather station. Here's more of a challenge: Anybody here have a lead on a Boeing B-29 Superfortress for sale or rescue ? I'd be happy with an RB- or KB- variant as well. A B-50 or TU-4 wouldn't be bad, either. you can always ask.... This list really cracks me up sometimes. : ) I used to work with vintage military electronic test equipment. I have a small collection of Korean and Vietnam vintage radio equipment. But that's another hobby altogether... - Matt At 07:00 PM 1/3/2003 -0500, you wrote: > > (anybody collect RADAR equipment here?) > >Yes, I do. > >William Donzelli >aw288@osfn.org Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030103/3b1f6edf/attachment.html From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 3 23:03:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: Looking 4... In-Reply-To: <20030104032521.427F219C69@www.fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <20030104050615.43626.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- David Vohs wrote: > Anybody have a Compaq SLT/286 or a GRiDCase 3 that they want to get rid > of for cheap? Nope... I'm using my Compaq SLT/286 to host my ancient ISA-based device programmer. For those not following my ongoing issues blow by blow, I just got it all working last night. Now all I need is that replacement DS12887 to show up and I can button the whole shebang up, nice and tidy. Thanks again, Bob! -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Jan 3 23:14:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: New finds Message-ID: Got a few new things from Purdue Salvage over winter break.... 1) (OT) RS/6000 F30 .. proc but no ram, drives, I/O cards and missing the cable to connect the hard drive bay to the motherboard. ... if anyone is interested, I would probably be willing to sell this off. $30 2) HP 1361D Logic Analyzer with 5 pods, and an analog probe $ free 3) Tektronix 7854 Waveform Calculator .. looks to be a part of something else, what I have is just a pad with a bunch of buttons and a cable with a DB-25M on the end. I'm also willing to sell this. $ free Everything seems to work, as far as I can tell. I'm also looking to get rid of a few things that I'm not really interested in anymore, watch the next few days for more items. BTW I'm in Lafayette, Indiana. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From jss at subatomix.com Fri Jan 3 23:23:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: ADMIN: Coming Updates, Question Message-ID: <55946361696.20030103232527@subatomix.com> If you're in a hurry, skip to the request at the end. Good news! The travesty that was my first attempt at a new web site for ClassicCmp.org has only a few days' worth of life still left in it. We've been long overdue a web site that doesn't (completely) suck, and I intend to provide one as soon as possible. I am finished with college and have become comfortable with my new job, so I now have adequate time to make ClassicCmp a better tool for its members and for the world's classic computer enthusiasts in general. The first stage will be a small set of static documents which will provide a *consistent* view of the site's current content: mailing list info, mail archives, and the FAQ. There will be no mention of anything under construction. Documents will be simple, nearly text-only, XHTML-compliant, and lynx-compliant. Expect this to be up soon. I have written the first half of the spam-defense mechanism we discussed several weeks ago. This half isn't the CGI program I talked about, but instead the processor that replaces email addresses in an HTML document with links to that CGI program. Due to popular demand, the email address info encoded in the links is encrypted by two iterations of DES. I am currently investigating human-verification methods to be used in the CGI program. Expect the archives to be spam-proofed soon. Thanks to Tothwolf the packrat, the missing months of the old list archives have been recovered. Expect them to be up soon, as soon as I decide whether to keep Pipermail or switch to Hypermail (what we used to use) for message archiving. I'm leaning toward Hypermail. Once these things are done and a decent web site is in place, I will look at developing a much more complex, second-stage site, with a file archive, link database, and some degree of dynamicity via PHP or similar. If you have a suggestion, please let me know via private email. By the way, we now have exactly 720 subscribers. I would also like to hear (private email please) from subscribers with comments for or against the current two-list system. Defense of the system is welcome, as are ideas for better ways of doing it. Is it necessary? Should we go back to one list? Should we have more than two lists? Something else? I want _your_ opinion! -- Jeffrey Sharp ClassicCmp List Admin (during Jay's extended break) From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 3 23:23:13 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: M200 interfacing continues... In-Reply-To: <200301032146.NAA11829@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > I don't recall if the two drives that you loaned me were > parallel or serial outs. I think one was a parallel though. I haven't really checked them out myself, but I was under the impression that one of them was serial. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 3 23:25:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: Some old computer systemsof interest In-Reply-To: <41C19CA3B7CBD411B59200508B6CBBFF02E66819@AH-Exchange-01.arh.cdc.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Bradley, Joel E -Syntegra US wrote: > Are you sure you want to get rid of your SX-64 and not do 'this' to it??? > > http://sx64.opsys.net/ That's pretty damn cool, actually :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From glenslick at hotmail.com Fri Jan 3 23:53:00 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: New finds Message-ID: The 7854 calculator keyboard goes with a 7854 mainframe scope. I've never used or seen one, but apparently the keyboard is necessary for full use of the scope. They show up on eBay occasionally. This page has some info and pictures of various 7000 series mainframes and plugins: http://www.caip.rutgers.edu/~kahrs/testeq/7000.html >From: Patrick Finnegan >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: New finds >Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 00:19:24 -0500 (EST) > >Got a few new things from Purdue Salvage over winter break.... > >3) Tektronix 7854 Waveform Calculator .. looks to be a part of something > else, what I have is just a pad with a bunch of buttons and a cable > with a DB-25M on the end. I'm also willing to sell this. > $ free > _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Jan 3 23:55:01 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: Looking for small NS32000 system In-Reply-To: "Heinz Wolter"'s message of "Fri, 3 Jan 2003 23:02:23 -0500" References: <200301040025.h040Pba06395@io.crash.com> <002901c2b3a6$1685b680$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Message-ID: <200301040544.h045iH0Y075514@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Heinz Wolter" wrote: > I always wanted one of those systems - when I was > in school - Natsemi was pushing those Genix/unix > kits like crazy to all the undergrads - but they turned > out to be seriously expensive and the early 32K parts > were severely buggy to support a stable system. Yes! If you get a chance to talk to someone who tried to seriously use the 32K, ask them about National's bugs. You are almost assured of a story. -Frank McConnell From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Jan 4 00:38:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: Free Tapes -- HP 9144 References: <200301032230.OAA03626@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <01a801c2b3bc$33dadc40$513bcd18@D73KSM11> Just bought a batch of DC300A tapes and included with them were 2 new, shrink-wrapped HP 9144 tapes, model HP 88140LC -- 600 ft., 16 track, pre-formatted and certified. Free for the shipping, which should only be a few bucks. -W From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 4 01:09:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: substitute for TI TIL306/307 Display? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030103170023.47cfc732@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030101182435.46b79dfc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20021231160657.0f370e7a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20021231160657.0f370e7a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030101182435.46b79dfc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030103170023.47cfc732@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Joe wrote: > At 06:01 PM 1/1/03 -0600, you wrote: > > > Oops, I have TIL311s, not the 306. I was thinking that the 311s were > > still in production. I guess the 311 with a built-in BCD controller > > must still be useful in current products. > > The 306/307s also have built in BCD decoders. I've been trying to find a > data sheet on the 311 so that I can see what the difference is between > it and the 306/307. I have the datasheet for the 311 in pdf format if you'd like me to email it to you. The 311 has a built-in BCD decoder, but not a counter, like the 306/307. > > I'll make a note to check a couple of my local surplus dealers over > > the next few weeks. If I find any TIL306 displays, I'll pick them up. > > Should I also hunt for any 307s? > > 306's or 307s will work equally well. The one difference between them is > that one has the decimal point to the left of the digit and the other > has the dp on the right. My unit doesn't use the decimal points so > either display will work fine. Ok, thats what I wanted to be sure of. Often devices didn't use the decimal points, but I didn't want to assume that was the case. > > If all else fails, would it be possible to salvage your displays? I've > > carefully ground back ceramic and plastic on other dip components to > > attach replacement leads in the past, but it isn't a fun task... > > It's possible but all the leads on them are weak and I'd probably have > to eventually replace ALL the leads. Been there, done that. I have a pile of early 74244s and other 7400 series logic chips that have nearly nothing left of their leads due to the foam that were stored in for roughly 15-20 years. Thankfully, the TIL311s and most of the other chips that came in the same batch of parts didn't have the same problem, though their leads had to be cleaned. -Toth From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Jan 4 01:15:01 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: Free Tapes -- HP 9144 References: <200301032230.OAA03626@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <01a801c2b3bc$33dadc40$513bcd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <01ec01c2b3c1$61337ee0$513bcd18@D73KSM11> They're gone. -W ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne M. Smith" To: Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 10:40 PM Subject: Free Tapes -- HP 9144 > Just bought a batch of DC300A tapes and included with them were 2 new, > shrink-wrapped HP 9144 tapes, model HP 88140LC -- 600 ft., 16 track, > pre-formatted and certified. Free for the shipping, which should only be a few > bucks. > > -W From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 4 01:16:01 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: Looking 4... In-Reply-To: <20030104050615.43626.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030104050615.43626.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- David Vohs wrote: > > > Anybody have a Compaq SLT/286 or a GRiDCase 3 that they want to get > > rid of for cheap? > > Nope... I'm using my Compaq SLT/286 to host my ancient ISA-based device > programmer. For those not following my ongoing issues blow by blow, I > just got it all working last night. Now all I need is that replacement > DS12887 to show up and I can button the whole shebang up, nice and tidy. Keep us updated on the compatibility of the DS12887 too. I still maintain a *pile* of Compaq 386s/20 systems that still have their original RTC modules. I dread the day when they all start failing... -Toth From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Jan 4 02:38:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: Looking 4... References: <20030104050615.43626.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002d01c2b3cc$f2ff19a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- David Vohs wrote: >> Anybody have a Compaq SLT/286 or a GRiDCase 3 that they want to get >> rid of for cheap? > > Nope... I'm using my Compaq SLT/286 to host my ancient ISA-based > device programmer. For those not following my ongoing issues > blow by blow, I just got it all working last night. Now all I > need is that replacement DS12887 to show up and I can button the > whole shebang up, nice and tidy. Feh. Just take a Dremel to the casing of the old one, pray you don't hit the Li battery and then replace the battery and put some PVC tape over it. Simple, yet effective. I've seen a website about doing exactly this. Or you could just dunk it in MEK to dissolve the potting compound Dalsemi used, then remove the plastic cover and replace the battery. Again, replace the cover and tape it down. IIRC, Dalsemi used a CR2032 battery in the 1287. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From evan947 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 4 03:13:20 2003 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: Craig Electronics Message-ID: <20030104091545.77957.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Does anyone on this list know whatever became of Craig Electronics, the Compton, Calif.-based calculator giant of the 1960s and 1970s? Specifically I'm looking for names of high-level people who worked there, or if the company was acquired by someone else, etc. - Evan Koblentz __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 4 03:20:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: Looking 4... In-Reply-To: <002d01c2b3cc$f2ff19a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> References: <20030104050615.43626.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> <002d01c2b3cc$f2ff19a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Jan 2003, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > Nope... I'm using my Compaq SLT/286 to host my ancient ISA-based > > device programmer. For those not following my ongoing issues blow by > > blow, I just got it all working last night. Now all I need is that > > replacement DS12887 to show up and I can button the whole shebang up, > > nice and tidy. > > Feh. Just take a Dremel to the casing of the old one, pray you don't hit > the Li battery and then replace the battery and put some PVC tape over > it. Simple, yet effective. I've seen a website about doing exactly this. > Or you could just dunk it in MEK to dissolve the potting compound > Dalsemi used, then remove the plastic cover and replace the battery. > Again, replace the cover and tape it down. IIRC, Dalsemi used a CR2032 > battery in the 1287. Supposedly, the 1287 has issues with y2k and beyond, which were fixed in the updated DS12887. I haven't yet had to replace any 1287s with a 12887 yet, so I don't know how much truth there is to this. I do know that some of those 386s/20 systems with DS1287s seem to randomly get their clocks scrambled, and it isn't due to software. MEK = Methyl Ethyl Ketone (C4H8O)? Is it actually obtainable for most folks? I thought it was regulated since it is so toxic and dangerous? Personally, I think I'd take safety precautions while working with the stuff... -Toth From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Jan 4 03:28:01 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: New to list Message-ID: <20030104093059.11670.qmail@web21103.mail.yahoo.com> > Here's more of a challenge: > Anybody here have a lead on a Boeing B-29 Superfortress for sale or rescue ? I believe there's one in my local air museum, along with a B52. Sneaking them past the security guards might be a bit tricky though - they don't exactly fit in back pockets :-) I have a few leads to chase up on the WWII fire control computer now, from various sources, so a bit of progress is being made. Thanks to those on the list who replied! cheers Jules __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Sat Jan 4 03:49:00 2003 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: New to list In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030103221059.039b2500@127.0.0.1> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030103161400.02ca8008@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20030103221059.039b2500@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <49867.213.250.80.125.1041673882.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Matthew Sell said: > > Anybody here have a lead on a Boeing B-29 Superfortress for sale or rescue > ? > I remember seeing a documentary about a bunch of guys trying to rescue a B-17 (I think, WW II, silver colour etc.) from either greenland or from some similar cold place (it's -30 celsius outside at the moment so I *can* relate :-) It was a truly sad documentary. One member of the team got pneumonia and passed away, they had a million obstacles in their way. I don't remember the name of the documentary but I'd love to see it again. (spoiler warning...) After the said obstacles they were able to repair the plane, created a makeshift runway on the glacier, taxiid the plane to the end of the runway (excitement building up here...) and the plane caught fire and burned down. It was a *very* sad moment. -- jht From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Jan 4 03:56:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: Those pesky Dalsemi RTCs... (was: Re: Looking 4) References: <20030104050615.43626.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003101c2b3d7$e81ab480$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Well, I've just been putting Google through its paces once more and I've found a few "Pull the battery to bits and do this" style tricks for the Dallas Semiconductor RTCs. Have fun :-) http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/2001-03/0997.html http://www.stud.fernuni-hagen.de/q3998142/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000455.html http://www.stud.fernuni-hagen.de/q3998142/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000125.html http://www.jmargolin.com/patents/hdzram.htm - this is aimed at the Mostek 48x02 (48Z02, 48T02) chips, but the same sort of thing can be done to a Dalsemi chip. Personally, I'd use a craft knife and cut around the casing from the bottom side, between the pins and the plastic cover. "Real Time", eh? More like "Time Bomb". I *hate* those pesky Dalsemi RTCs... Hmm... I might try and replace the battery in the 15xx I've got in my junkbox at some point today... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Jan 4 04:03:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: Looking 4... References: <20030104050615.43626.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> <002d01c2b3cc$f2ff19a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <003901c2b3d8$e41e6420$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Tothwolf wrote: > Supposedly, the 1287 has issues with y2k and beyond, which were fixed > in the updated DS12887. I haven't yet had to replace any 1287s with a > 12887 yet, so I don't know how much truth there is to this. I do know > that some of those 386s/20 systems with DS1287s seem to randomly get > their clocks scrambled, and it isn't due to software. Hmm... I'm thinking "Stuffed battery" and "Design fault". In that order. But then again, Dallas Semiconductor do have a reputation for some pretty strange design mistakes... > MEK = Methyl Ethyl Ketone (C4H8O)? Is it actually obtainable for most > folks? I thought it was regulated since it is so toxic and dangerous? > Personally, I think I'd take safety precautions while working with the > stuff... I've heard of it being used to nuke potting compound. Should work on an RTC, but it'll probably rip up the screenprint on the caphat at the same time. I don't have any MEK, nor do I want any - a bit of hacking (in the literal sense) with a craft knife/Dremel should get the caphat off. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 4 05:15:01 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: Looking 4... In-Reply-To: <003901c2b3d8$e41e6420$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> References: <20030104050615.43626.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> <002d01c2b3cc$f2ff19a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <003901c2b3d8$e41e6420$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Jan 2003, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Tothwolf wrote: > > > MEK = Methyl Ethyl Ketone (C4H8O)? Is it actually obtainable for most > > folks? I thought it was regulated since it is so toxic and dangerous? > > Personally, I think I'd take safety precautions while working with the > > stuff... > > I've heard of it being used to nuke potting compound. Should work on an > RTC, but it'll probably rip up the screenprint on the caphat at the same > time. I don't have any MEK, nor do I want any - a bit of hacking (in the > literal sense) with a craft knife/Dremel should get the caphat off. Well...I'd expect it to do a fair job at dissolving or softening the potting compound. I imagine it would indeed remove the screen print too. I do wonder if it might also dissolve the 'caphat' as you call it. I think it is made of a nylon or nylon/fiberglass blend plastic. If thats the case, it might not hurt it at all. I wonder if Dallas would tell us what it is made of? :) Having cut away other potting compounds in the past, I think I'd prefer to dissolve such things over hacking at them with an Xacto and or Dremel. Those Lithium cells are also *very* toxic/dangerous. I think I'd be more worried about accidentally cutting into it with a Dremel than I'd be about MEK handled safely under proper conditions. -Toth From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Jan 4 05:19:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: what a bargain! Message-ID: <20030104112141.61643.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com> Saw a Spectrum +2 at a car boot sale this morning, complete with label as follows: Sinclair Computer (Works with any monitor or TV) All games etc. 75 pounds I spent a while trying to figure out where they'd missed the decimal point . I actually felt like haggling just to see what the lowest price they were prepared to offer! "but it doesn't have a box!" "Oh, OK, have it for 65 pounds then" :-) Jules __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jan 4 05:37:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: Looking 4... In-Reply-To: "Philip Pemberton" "Re: Looking 4..." (Jan 4, 10:06) References: <20030104050615.43626.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> <002d01c2b3cc$f2ff19a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <003901c2b3d8$e41e6420$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <10301041140.ZM23596@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 4, 10:06, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Tothwolf wrote: > > MEK = Methyl Ethyl Ketone (C4H8O)? Is it actually obtainable for most > > folks? I thought it was regulated since it is so toxic and dangerous? > > Personally, I think I'd take safety precautions while working with the > > stuff... > I've heard of it being used to nuke potting compound. Should work on an RTC, > but it'll probably rip up the screenprint on the caphat at the same time. I > don't have any MEK, nor do I want any - a bit of hacking (in the literal > sense) with a craft knife/Dremel should get the caphat off. MEK is indeed methyl ethyl ketone, aka butanone. It's not particularly toxic, nor particularly dangerous -- very roughly on a par with iso-propyl alcohol, and less dangerous than some solvents that have been mentioned on this list for use on plastics. It's used industrially to "weld" ABS and PVC, as a cleaner in the printing industry, as a degreasing agent, to clean equipment used for plastic foam (including cans of the expanding urethane foam filler used in the building industry), and as a constituent of some plastic glues. It will dissolve most ink and some paints. Like IPA, acetone (nail varnish remover), methylated sprit, etc, it's fairly flammable. It will attack a lot of plastics, but not most epoxies (once properly cured) or "waxy" plastics like polythene. The effect on potting compund will depend on the compound, but it will make some types of RTV (Room Temperature Vulcanising compound) "silicone" swell and eventually make some types crumbly. BTW, the acetic acid given off by curing RTV is rated as 10-50 times more toxic than MEK :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Jan 4 06:23:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: Looking 4... References: <20030104050615.43626.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> <002d01c2b3cc$f2ff19a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <003901c2b3d8$e41e6420$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <00ad01c2b3ec$761a8b20$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Tothwolf wrote: >> I've heard of it being used to nuke potting compound. Should work on >> an RTC, but it'll probably rip up the screenprint on the caphat at >> the same time. I don't have any MEK, nor do I want any - a bit of >> hacking (in the literal sense) with a craft knife/Dremel should get >> the caphat off. > > Well...I'd expect it to do a fair job at dissolving or softening the > potting compound. I imagine it would indeed remove the screen print > too. I do wonder if it might also dissolve the 'caphat' as you call > it. I think it is made of a nylon or nylon/fiberglass blend plastic. > If thats the case, it might not hurt it at all. I wonder if Dallas > would tell us what it is made of? :) I doubt Dalsemi want anyone to replace the batteries, period. The problem is, the cover is manufactured with spacing "ribs" running the length of the cover. These have been embedded in what looks like ABS plastic or some form of potting compound. Said potting compound is resistant to hacking with a knife and also acetone. I drenched the thing in acetone and only succeeded in removing the screenprint. Admittedly, the acetone I used was not straight acetone, but "nail polish remover". > Having cut away other potting compounds in the past, I think I'd > prefer to dissolve such things over hacking at them with an Xacto and > or Dremel. Same here. > Those Lithium cells are also *very* toxic/dangerous. I think I'd be > more worried about accidentally cutting into it with a Dremel than > I'd be about MEK handled safely under proper conditions. Which is why I go *very* gently if I use a knife. Anyone want to try dunking a DalSemi RTC or NVRAM module in MEK or some other solvent? Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Jan 4 06:33:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: Looking 4... References: <20030104050615.43626.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> <002d01c2b3cc$f2ff19a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <003901c2b3d8$e41e6420$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <10301041140.ZM23596@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <00b301c2b3ed$db1c9620$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: > MEK is indeed methyl ethyl ketone, aka butanone. It's not > particularly toxic, nor particularly dangerous -- very roughly on a > par with iso-propyl alcohol, and less dangerous than some solvents > that have been mentioned on this list for use on plastics. Just out of interest, how does it compare with acetone? > It's used > industrially to "weld" ABS and PVC, as a cleaner in the printing > industry, as a degreasing agent, to clean equipment used for plastic > foam (including cans of the expanding urethane foam filler used in > the building industry), and as a constituent of some plastic glues. > It will dissolve most ink and some paints. Like IPA, acetone (nail > varnish remover), methylated sprit, etc, it's fairly flammable. Er, fairly flammable? From the reports I've read, it's worse than petrol (unleaded, LRP, take your pick). > It will attack a lot of plastics, but not most epoxies (once properly > cured) or "waxy" plastics like polythene. The effect on potting > compund will depend on the compound, but it will make some types of > RTV (Room Temperature Vulcanising compound) "silicone" swell and > eventually make some types crumbly. BTW, the acetic acid given off > by curing RTV is rated as 10-50 times more toxic than MEK :-) Hmm... I've just found a page that lists some solvents and their uses - http://www.seahawkpaints.com/solvents.html It lists Xylene as being usable for epoxy and polyurethane resin removal. Hmm... Shame the only source of xylene I have is the stuff mixed with varnish in my Electrolube "CPL" lacquer pen. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Jan 4 07:01:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: Config info on HP1000 memory? References: <20030103094550.V32801-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <3E16DC81.2040801@tiac.net> Try installing only one memory array board, with all jumpers installed. HP module addressing jumpers are installed for a logic 0, removed for a logic 1. Make sure your memory controller is in the bottom slot. I often find the memory system is 'happier' if you place the first memory module near the far end of the memory controller ribbon cable, and always suspect that ribbon cable. Its not uncommon to find a bad connector or two, so you may have to move the memory module to another slot, ot try flipping the ribbon cable upside down. We'll get your HP running again. Any interest in trying to boot HP-IPL/OS? James Willing wrote: >In severe HP mode this week... > >Does anyone have at hand the information for configuring HP memory boards >12747H and/or 12749H for use in an HP1000 (2117F) computer??? > >I (finally) have signs of life from the computer, but it does not see any >of the memory and I'm going bonkers cycling randomly thru permutations on >the DIP switches!!! > >Unfortnately, in the online archive of the HP1000/e/f/m Engineering >Reference Set, section II (covering memory) is missing, as well as >sections III, IV, and VIIII. (other relevant parts) > >AARGH! > >Thanks!; >-jim >--- >jimw@agora.rdrop.com >The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw > From loedman1 at juno.com Sat Jan 4 09:02:00 2003 From: loedman1 at juno.com (loedman1@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: New to list (Boeing B-29) Message-ID: <20030104.070046.-7793.0.loedman1@juno.com> No, but if you locate two of them I will take one if you pay shipping to Napa, Ca Rich >Here's more of a challenge: >Anybody here have a lead on a Boeing B-29 Superfortress for sale or rescue ? >I'd be happy with an RB- or KB- variant as well. A B-50 or TU-4 wouldn't be bad, either. >you can always ask.... From Ed_Chiodo at compuserve.com Sat Jan 4 09:45:15 2003 From: Ed_Chiodo at compuserve.com (ED CHIODO) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: TIL311s Message-ID: <200301041048_MC3-1-22BD-394F@compuserve.com> 4-Jan-04 Plenty of TIL311 ICs on hand (one of my favorites!), but a bit different from the 306/307s you seek. I have the 311 datasheets if you care to investigate the necessary 'tanslation' work. BR/EC Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 17:00:23 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org From: Joe Subject: Re: substitute for TI TIL306/307 Display? Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org At 06:01 PM 1/1/03 -0600, you wrote: >On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, Joe wrote: >> At 10:51 PM 12/31/02 -0600, you wrote: >> >On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, Joe wrote: >> > >> > > Does anyone know of another display that can be substituted for the >> > > TIL 306/307? Here is a data sheet for the 306/307 in case you have a >> > > question about it, . >> > >> > I don't know of an exact replacement offhand, but I thought these were >> > still in production? >> >> Are they? I think mine are about 25 years old. FWIW I went looking for >> some at a large local surplus store and found one that I think is >> prototype. It's built out of clear material instead of red and is marked >> TIXL306 and is date coded 7204 (almost 31 years old!). I went through >> several boxs and THOUSANDs of displays and only found one standard 306 >> and the one prototype. >> >> > How many of these displays are you looking for? I believe I still have >> > a few in my parts bin... >> >> In addition to the one that I found in the store I need three of them. >> Mine were in sockets and the dissimilar metal corrosion has eaten off at >> least one leg off of each of mine. > >Oops, I have TIL311s, not the 306. I was thinking that the 311s were still >in production. I guess the 311 with a built-in BCD controller must still >be useful in current products. The 306/307s also have built in BCD decoders. I've been trying to find a data sheet on the 311 so that I can see what the difference is between it and the 306/307. From msell at ontimesupport.com Sat Jan 4 10:09:00 2003 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: New to list In-Reply-To: <49867.213.250.80.125.1041673882.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030103221059.039b2500@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20030103161400.02ca8008@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20030103221059.039b2500@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030104095530.0315ed68@127.0.0.1> It was A B-29. Nova did a program about it - it was very sad. The Superfort made an emergency landing after running low on fuel in a snow storm while on a "monitoring" mission. The crew was picked up, but since the B-29 was close to being retired, they just left it there. That was in 1947 or 1949, I believe. An explorer noted in his diary finding the plane while flying. He noted seeing a plane "similar" to a B-29 sitting on the ground intact. A hot-shot ex- test pilot named Darryl Greenamyer (sp?) organized an effort to bring the plane home. The plan was to repair it to the point where it could be flown to Thule AFB, and then shipped home to the US. The crew worked long and hard hours, fighting the short sping/summer period to get the plane operational. The hard work was partly responsible for one of the crew dying of pnemonia. When the plane was finally airworthy, Darryl took it for a taxi test around the site, and to get it lined up on the makeshift runway. During this taxi, he hit a large "bump", and an auxiliary fuel tank gravity feeding the APU (auxiliary power unit - it's pump failed, so they needed to gravity feed fuel to it) fell and dumped AVGAS on the APU. The tail section of the plane caught fire and nobody could get to a fire extinguisher in time. The plane burned to the ground on the ice of a frozen lake. Now the little that remains is at the bottom of the lake. I'd love to meet Darryl one day. I'd like to shake his hand for organizing the effort to get the plane in the air (it almost flew), and then punch him in the face for being careless and destroying one of the few -29's left that could be flyable. Did anyone here realize that the B-29 was the first aircraft to have a fire-control analog computer? This computer would take the gunners inputs from the sights and compensate for several factors and then aim whatever series of guns (up to four turrets) were assigned to him. As one B-29 pilot said, "The plane was real Buck Rogers back then". Neat stuff.... - Matt >I remember seeing a documentary about a bunch of guys trying to rescue a >B-17 (I think, WW II, silver colour etc.) from either greenland or >from some similar cold place (it's -30 celsius outside at the moment >so I *can* relate :-) It was a truly sad documentary. One member of the >team got pneumonia and passed away, they had a million obstacles in their >way. > >I don't remember the name of the documentary but I'd love to see it again. > >(spoiler warning...) > > > Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030104/9b84a2c6/attachment.html From rickb at bensene.com Sat Jan 4 10:13:00 2003 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: Craig Electronics In-Reply-To: <20030104091545.77957.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003c01c2b40c$7a12e0e0$030aa8c0@bensene.com> It appears that the company is still in business, apparently making electronic toys. I've seen a Karaoke machine in toy stores over the holidays that is branded with the Craig logo. However, searches of the web don't result in any website for the company, nor do telephone directory searches of businesses called Craig Electronics in California generate any hits. If you happen to find out anything about the history of this company, I'd really appreciate hearing what you learn. Best of luck, Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Web Museum http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of evan > Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 1:16 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Craig Electronics > > > Does anyone on this list know whatever became of Craig > Electronics, the Compton, Calif.-based calculator giant of > the 1960s and 1970s? Specifically I'm looking for names of > high-level people who worked there, or if the company was > acquired by someone else, etc. > > - Evan Koblentz > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From aw288 at osfn.org Sat Jan 4 10:49:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: New to list In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030104095530.0315ed68@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: > Did anyone here realize that the B-29 was the first aircraft to have a > fire-control analog computer? Be careful. Some earlier bombers were fitted with AN/APG-5 radars (a slightly older version of the AN/APG-15s found in B-29s). These 'APG-5s have small computers called a CP-8/APG-5s, used to do crude calculations on the ranges. These CP-8s were reused with the AN/APG-15s, alongside the big electromechanical things in the B-29s (that I can not remember the name of). One thing you will find about this list is that the words "never", "always", "first", and "last" should be handled very carefully. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From allain at panix.com Sat Jan 4 10:52:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: Apollo books/media References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030103221059.039b2500@127.0.0.1><5.1.0.14.0.20030103161400.02ca8008@127.0.0.1><5.1.0.14.0.20030103221059.039b2500@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20030104095530.0315ed68@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <007f01c2b411$eff13000$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> For those on the list interested in early manned spaceflight, I was out shopping during Christmas and found a series of Apollo books from Apogee that contain NASA/USGPO quality information inside, also including movies on either CDROM or DVD (2 sides for Apollo 11 vol 3). Some invaluable material available for nice affordable prices (book+DVD<$25) FYI John A. From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Sat Jan 4 10:54:00 2003 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: New to list In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030104095530.0315ed68@127.0.0.1> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030103221059.039b2500@127.0.0.1><5.1.0.14.0.2003010316 1400.02ca8008@127.0.0.1><5.1.0.14.0.20030103221059.039b2500@127.0.0.1 > <5.1.0.14.0.20030104095530.0315ed68@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <1199.213.250.80.125.1041699394.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Matthew Sell said: > > > It was A B-29. > > Nova did a program about it - it was very sad. > Thanks for the details, my memory failed me again. I didn't know about the fire-control computer but it somehow fits the image I have of it. The two planes I'd really like to try (as a passenger!) are B-29 and SR-71, but if I'd have choose I'd go on a B-29, no competition. -- jht From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Jan 4 11:16:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: New to list (Boeing B-29) References: <20030104.070046.-7793.0.loedman1@juno.com> Message-ID: <3E171702.4010801@jetnet.ab.ca> loedman1@juno.com wrote: > No, but if you locate two of them I will take one if you pay shipping to > Napa, Ca > Rich >>Anybody here have a lead on a Boeing B-29 Superfortress for sale or I thought they shipped them selves. :) Ben. PS. Al least back then you could repair them, now I am not so sure with todays armed forces products. From fernande at internet1.net Sat Jan 4 11:18:01 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: New to list In-Reply-To: <1199.213.250.80.125.1041699394.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030103221059.039b2500@127.0.0.1><5.1.0.14.0.2003010316 1400.02ca8008@127.0.0.1><5.1.0.14.0.20030103221059.039b2500@127.0.0.1 > <5.1.0.14.0.20030104095530.0315ed68@127.0.0.1> <1199.213.250.80.125.1041699394.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Message-ID: <3E17169C.9050504@internet1.net> Jarkko Teppo wrote: > Thanks for the details, my memory failed me again. > > I didn't know about the fire-control computer but it somehow > fits the image I have of it. The two planes I'd really like > to try (as a passenger!) are B-29 and SR-71, but if I'd have > choose I'd go on a B-29, no competition. I think I'd go SR-71. That would be truly special, you just can't go "do" that. You can get a ride in a WWII bombmer without to much trouble, I do believe. Seems like last time I went to the EAA Fly In, at Oshkosh it was possible. I would assume the Confederate Air Force sells ride (in Texas??) at times too. It's a way to raise money for upkeep, and restoration, and so on. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 4 11:37:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: New to list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Jan 2003, William Donzelli wrote: > One thing you will find about this list is that the words "never", > "always", "first", and "last" should be handled very carefully. Indeed. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sat Jan 4 12:32:01 2003 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: Config info on HP1000 memory? In-Reply-To: <3E16DC81.2040801@tiac.net> References: <20030103094550.V32801-100000@agora.rdrop.com> <3E16DC81.2040801@tiac.net> Message-ID: <20030104102221.L74018-100000@agora.rdrop.com> On Sat, 4 Jan 2003, Bob Shannon wrote: > Try installing only one memory array board, with all jumpers installed. Fairly standard proceedure... The one board part that is... > HP module addressing jumpers are installed for a logic 0, removed for a > logic 1. As I have started to discern from the Section II docs that were posted yesterday (many thanks to Al Kossow) > Make sure your memory controller is in the bottom slot. One of those 'aargh!' moments - last night after no initial success I started prowling the Engr. docs again, and when I came upon the Memory Backplain schematics... Imagine my surprise to find out that the memory control(ler) signals were only presented on the bottom two slots... > I often find the memory system is 'happier' if you > place the first memory module near the far end of the memory controller > ribbon cable, Interesting... > and always suspect that ribbon cable. Always suspect ANY ribbon cable! > Its not uncommon to find a bad connector or two, so > you may have to move the memory module to another slot, > or try flipping the ribbon cable upside down. EIther or both... > We'll get your HP running again. I certanly hope so! So; to current status: Finally, it is appearing to 'see' the memory card but there are still problems... Memory locations 0-2 seem to be OK, but anything above that Bit 3 is stuck on. Tried multiple memory boards - same results. Thinking I should find/make a new ribbon cable to try. Or could the memory controller be funky? I'm also thinking toward trying to get to the second unit (currently in the warehouse) to do comparison testing. That and I think the other memory controller board (that I can't find at them moment) is probably in it. > Any interest in trying to boot HP-IPL/OS? Yep... looked at it, downloaded it... looks like fun. Now, if only the computer will cooperate... Heck, I even cleaned it up so it looks nice! (which means I need to shoot new pix too) Ever onward! -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From MTPro at aol.com Sat Jan 4 13:10:00 2003 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: Selling black Bell & Howell Apple ][+ Message-ID: <18.2ab8acd8.2b488c36@aol.com> Happy New Year. Before I put this up on eBay, anyone seriously interested? I'm willing to sell it more reasonably here to someone, please just e-mail me an offer. The system has a black B & H floppy drive. Has 16k upgrade to 64K. Floppy controller. Boots and tested fine to an Apple /// monitor. Excellent condition. I am also about to sell a seemingly rare portable terminal / printer. A 1978 Execuport 4000 attache' size portable data communication terminal. Very nice with acoustic coupler on back, sleek with detachable plastic shroud to cover keyboard. Includes small user's manual dated 8/19/78 printing. Value? Offers? Here's some pictures: http://members.aol.com/mtpro/exec.html Thank you, David David Greelish Classic Computing www.classiccomputing.com "classiccomputing" on eBay -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030104/a46aac59/attachment.html From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Jan 4 13:18:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:02 2005 Subject: Craig Electronics In-Reply-To: <20030104091545.77957.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030104091545.77957.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Jan 2003, evan wrote: > Does anyone on this list know whatever became of Craig > Electronics, the Compton, Calif.-based calculator > giant of the 1960s and 1970s? Specifically I'm [snip] Usually I loathe folks who go to the trouble of replying to a post only to say "No, sorry I can't help you, wish I could, yada yada yada..." BUT, I have a bit of this puzzle, if not actually the requested info. First, Craig was most emphatically *not* a 'calculator giant'. I think they sold three or four successive models. I had the first one, a 2401, in 1969 as a teenager. Craig was a huge importer and re-badger of consumer electronics, heavily into tape recorders and car stereos. I had a part-time job at a car stereo place, installing and repairing the damn things, in between college classes. Since the store I worked for was a busy Craig outlet, we were talked into stocking a few of the 2401 four-function, constant mem key, LED units. I remember the keypad had a slight 'click' to it. Batteries lasted about 20 to 40 minutes. (2 'AA' cells). I was nearly 17, already in engineering school, and we all had slide rules. The Natural Geeks among us wore ours on our belts, like Samurai Mathematicians. I had heard of these calculators, but that was the first one I'd actually seen in the plastic. It was $245.0 plus tax. I had to have it. I put one on layaway, sold a bunch of stuff, plundered my savings, and got a two-week advance on my paycheck. It was MINE. (Consider what $245 is in '03 dollars. To me, it was almost like buying a car...) After getting a bit fluent with it, I took it to school. I whipped it out in my 'Transients in Linear Systems' class and drew an immediate crowd. The professor finally worked his way through the bodies to my desk, scooped up my little Craig calculator, and took it up front. "I'd like to borrow this for a few days..." he asked. Of course I was not about to part with the Newest Coolest Toy I owned. "Lawson..." he intoned. "Do you have any presumptions whatsoever when it comes to passing my classes?" Bastard had it for the better part of a week, and when I got it back, the batteries were stone cold dead. Cheers John PS: ISTR the 'Bowmar Brain' 4-function job was also available during that time... it was 'cheesier', had plastic round keys and a vacuum flourescent display??? Calculator collectors will correct me on this. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 4 13:53:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: Those pesky Dalsemi RTCs... (was: Re: Looking 4) In-Reply-To: <003101c2b3d7$e81ab480$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20030104195620.305.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Philip Pemberton wrote: > Well, I've just been putting Google through its paces once more and > I've found a few "Pull the battery to bits and do this" style tricks for > the Dallas Semiconductor RTCs. Have fun :-) > > http://www.jmargolin.com/patents/hdzram.htm - this is aimed at the > Mostek 48x02 (48Z02, 48T02) chips, but the same sort of thing can be done > to a Dalsemi chip. I've already done this sort of thing with a 48T02... I whittled away the epoxy at the nose of the chip, and exposed the battery leads. They were easy to break, separating the battery from the chip. Then I soldered on a 9V battery lead to the lower stubs of the connection, tacked the wires down to the front of the battery compartment as a strain relief, and put a lithium coin cell in a bag to insulate it in the SPARC case. What I did with the DS1287 was similar, but since I did not know where the battery was, I began by assuming I was going to sacrifice one to learn how they are put together. It seems that unlike the 48T02 and friends, which has 4 points of contact from the top and the bottom, the DS1287 has IC pins that go down into the motherboard and up, into the epoxy. One of the pins is the negative battery lead. I found that one first by scraping the epoxy off. It was a simple matter to expose the battery top and peel back the steel lead tacked to the battery and unsolder it from the pin. The positive lead proved to be more elusive. I never did locate it. Instead, not being aware that the insides of a battery were hideously toxic, I _did_ cut it open, wash out the chemicals and remove all but the outer shell from the epoxy. I then abraded the rim of the former battery, fluxed the bejeezus out of it and soldered a 9V battery lead to it and used the lithium cell from my 48T02 mod (having already received and installed geniune replacements for it from Mouser). If my digital camera (Apple QT150) had the close-up lens, I'd take pictures, but since it has about a 2' minimum distance and it's a 640x480 image with high compression, the pictures would be of limited use. So now, I guess, I can consider further destructive testing once I get the DS12887 installed. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Jan 4 14:09:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: Craig Electronics References: <20030104091545.77957.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003d01c2b42d$7b902f10$513bcd18@D73KSM11> Here's a little hard information. Craig Electronics was a division of Craig Corp. On 12/31/85 the Los Angeles Times announced that Bercor, a La Mirada-based distributor of consumer products, bought the operating assets of Craig Electronics for an undisclosed sum. Bercor, run by a guy named Richard Berger, then changed its name to Craig Electronics. Craig filed for bankruptcy on August 1, 1997 after restating earnings for 1996. Just prior to the bankruptcy the company had shifted its business, dropping video products in favor of CD players and boomboxes, and entering into product reconditioning deals in China. Shortly after the bankruptcy, the SEC investigated the company and the four top executives, including Berger, were fired. Berger eventually agreed to pay a $25,000 fine to the SEC and be barred from serving as a corporate officer for five years. Following the bankruptcy filing, Craig was unable to obtain financing and the bankruptcy court approved a foreclosure and inventory sale, including the sale of the "Craig Electronics" name. The name was purchased in January 1998 by Newtech, a company that sells CE products under own brand and the White-Westinghouse name. At the time of the sale, Newtech stated that it intended to keep the Craig brand at its 2 largest accounts -- Best Buy and Circuit City. In September 2000, Richard Berger and two other former Craig executives were charged with 34 counts of conspiracy and fraud after allegedly misrepresenting corporate revenue in an effort to secure a $40 million line of credit from a group of banks. The banks reportedly lost $8 million and shareholders lost more than $5 million. The case is still pending with the trial scheduled for February 4, 2003 in federal court in Los Angeles. Here's the last news article I could find concerning an earlier trial continuance. -W Craig Trial Pushed Back By Joseph Palenchar TWICE 4/19/2002 11:46:00 AM Los Angeles - The bank-fraud trial of three former Craig Consumer Electronics executives has been pushed back to October, according to the U.S. District Attorney for the central district of California. 'We're moving forward to trial,' said a spokesman. In September 2000, a federal grand jury indicted the three for allegedly defrauding four banks in a failed bid to keep the company afloat before it was liquidated in 1997. The banks lost about $8 million in a scheme in which the executives borrowed more money against the company's line of credit than allowed under the banks' line-of-credit agreements. Craig Consumer Electronics is not related to Golden Beach, Fla.-based NewTech, a distributor that purchased the Craig name when Craig Consumer Electronics was liquidated. The indicted executives are former chairman and president Richard Berger, CFO and treasurer Donna Richardson, and international trade director Bonnie Metz. The grand jury said Berger and Richardson intentionally inflated Craig's accounts receivable and inventory levels, enabling the company to exceed its credit limit with the banks. The grand jury's 34-count indictment charged the executives with conspiracy, loan fraud, wire fraud, falsifying corporate books and records, lying to the publicly-traded company's auditors, and making false statements in reports to the SEC. At one point, according to the U.S Attorney's office, one bank representative 'became suspicious when the bank was asked to pay for an overseas shipment of audio equipment that Craig purportedly had owned. After the representative announced that he intended to visit Craig's location in Cerritos [Calif.] that same business day to obtain copies of certain shipping documents, Craig sent all of its employees home in advance of his arrival, and the representative was unable to review the shipping documents in question. The following day, Metz and another Craig employee allegedly went to Craig's offices and shredded these shipping documents.' From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Jan 4 15:42:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: Craig Electronics References: <20030104091545.77957.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> <003d01c2b42d$7b902f10$513bcd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <005001c2b43a$88cdd990$513bcd18@D73KSM11> More information from a Stanford U. obituary: T. Robert Craig Jr., '45, of Brentwood, Calif., March 6, [2002] at 79. An economics major, he was a member of Zeta Psi. During World War II, he served as an Army Air Force pilot. He joined Craig Corp., founded by his father to distribute photographic materials, and transformed the company into a well-known importer and marketer of consumer electronics. As chair and chief executive from 1952 to 1985, he was a pioneer in marketing the hand-held calculator and developing the eight-track auto stereo system. Survivors: his wife, Katharine; two daughters, Nancy, '69, and Carol Gordean; and his son, James. -W ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne M. Smith" To: Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 12:11 PM Subject: Re: Craig Electronics > Here's a little hard information. > > Craig Electronics was a division of Craig Corp. On 12/31/85 the Los Angeles > Times announced that Bercor, a La Mirada-based distributor of consumer products, > bought the operating assets of Craig Electronics for an undisclosed sum. > Bercor, run by a guy named Richard Berger, then changed its name to Craig > Electronics. > > Craig filed for bankruptcy on August 1, 1997 after restating earnings for 1996. > Just prior to the bankruptcy the company had shifted its business, dropping > video products in favor of CD players and boomboxes, and entering into product > reconditioning deals in China. Shortly after the bankruptcy, the SEC > investigated the company and the four top executives, including Berger, were > fired. Berger eventually agreed to pay a $25,000 fine to the SEC and be barred > from serving as a corporate officer for five years. > > Following the bankruptcy filing, Craig was unable to obtain financing and the > bankruptcy court approved a foreclosure and inventory sale, including the sale > of the "Craig Electronics" name. The name was purchased in January 1998 by > Newtech, a company that sells CE products under own brand and the > White-Westinghouse name. At the time of the sale, Newtech stated that it > intended to keep the Craig brand at its 2 largest accounts -- Best Buy and > Circuit City. > > In September 2000, Richard Berger and two other former Craig executives were > charged with 34 counts of conspiracy and fraud after allegedly misrepresenting > corporate revenue in an effort to secure a $40 million line of credit from a > group of banks. The banks reportedly lost $8 million and shareholders lost more > than $5 million. > > The case is still pending with the trial scheduled for February 4, 2003 in > federal court in Los Angeles. > > Here's the last news article I could find concerning an earlier trial > continuance. > > -W > > Craig Trial Pushed Back > By Joseph Palenchar > TWICE > 4/19/2002 11:46:00 AM > > Los Angeles - The bank-fraud trial of three former Craig Consumer Electronics > executives has been pushed back to October, according to the U.S. District > Attorney for the central district of California. > > 'We're moving forward to trial,' said a spokesman. > > In September 2000, a federal grand jury indicted the three for allegedly > defrauding four banks in a failed bid to keep the company afloat before it was > liquidated in 1997. > > The banks lost about $8 million in a scheme in which the executives borrowed > more money against the company's line of credit than allowed under the banks' > line-of-credit agreements. > > Craig Consumer Electronics is not related to Golden Beach, Fla.-based NewTech, a > distributor that purchased the Craig name when Craig Consumer Electronics was > liquidated. > > The indicted executives are former chairman and president Richard Berger, CFO > and treasurer Donna Richardson, and international trade director Bonnie Metz. > The grand jury said Berger and Richardson intentionally inflated Craig's > accounts receivable and inventory levels, enabling the company to exceed its > credit limit with the banks. > > The grand jury's 34-count indictment charged the executives with conspiracy, > loan fraud, wire fraud, falsifying corporate books and records, lying to the > publicly-traded company's auditors, and making false statements in reports to > the SEC. > > At one point, according to the U.S Attorney's office, one bank representative > 'became suspicious when the bank was asked to pay for an overseas shipment of > audio equipment that Craig purportedly had owned. After the representative > announced that he intended to visit Craig's location in Cerritos [Calif.] that > same business day to obtain copies of certain shipping documents, Craig sent all > of its employees home in advance of his arrival, and the representative was > unable to review the shipping documents in question. The following day, Metz and > another Craig employee allegedly went to Craig's offices and shredded these > shipping documents.' > > From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Jan 4 15:55:01 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: Looking for small NS32000 system In-Reply-To: <20030102221738.97222.qmail@web41114.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030102221738.97222.qmail@web41114.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030104200250.GA14669@ickis.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, Jan 02, 2003 at 02:17:38PM -0800, Jeffrey Katcher wrote: > I've been looking for a Symmetric 375, but those seem to be rare as hen's > teeth. Does anyone have something like a Whitechapel MG1 or a Tektronix > 6130/4132 looking for a new home? Hmmm. AFAIK the early Siemens MX300 machines have some sort of NS32k CPU and are quite common. At least in Germany. ;-) Then there is the PC532. But as there where less than 200 systems produced, you may have more luck in finding a "Half VAX". ;-( -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From cmurray at eagle.ca Sat Jan 4 16:21:00 2003 From: cmurray at eagle.ca (C. Murray McCullough) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: A bit more about me... Message-ID: <3E175F0A.A83C744C@eagle.ca> Hi all, Sorry about the short intro. A bit more: I' a computer teacher; been in the business since 1970 when i learned COBOL programming in Toronto. I earned a BA and BEd and taught ESL in Africa and Asia. My first computer was CompuPro and the Intercept Jr. 6100. Sorry to say they're no longer active as they're in storage in the barn. I raise horses. The computer I still use from vintage era is the Coleco ADAM. Us Adamites keep are favorite machine running despite its early orphan status. I now have an 800 Mhz. Celeron machine. I wrote a book called "A Historical Research Guide to the Microcomputer" which covers the 4/8 bit era as a supplementary paper for my PhD. I try to follow what's happening out there but I'm afraid I have limited time. Too busy!!! A great excuse... Murray-- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 4 17:12:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: what a bargain! In-Reply-To: <20030104112141.61643.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com> from "=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=" at Jan 4, 3 11:21:41 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 593 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030104/39189069/attachment.ksh From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Sat Jan 4 17:19:00 2003 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: GRiDCase 3 & GEOS. Message-ID: <20030104232159.3E6189B16@www.fastmail.fm> Pretty soon I'll be in posession of a GRiDCase 3. I was wondering if it would be a good idea to try to run GEOS on it. Is this a good idea, or should I slap myself for saying something stupid? -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://fastmail.fm - Sent 0.000002 seconds ago From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jan 4 17:21:01 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: Looking 4... In-Reply-To: "Philip Pemberton" "Re: Looking 4..." (Jan 4, 12:36) References: <20030104050615.43626.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> <002d01c2b3cc$f2ff19a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <003901c2b3d8$e41e6420$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <10301041140.ZM23596@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <00b301c2b3ed$db1c9620$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <10301042323.ZM23879@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 4, 12:36, Philip Pemberton wrote: > pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: > > MEK is indeed methyl ethyl ketone, aka butanone. [...] > Just out of interest, how does it compare with acetone? Acetone: TLV 1000ppm Butanone: TLV 200ppm IPA: TLV 300ppm BUT please note these figures vary from authority to authority because of differing regulations in different countries, and are sometimes revised in the light of research or experience. The figures I've given are from the Chemical Society in the UK, and US values may differ. Also, TLV says nothing about what the effects of excessive exposure might be, nor about other hazards (fire, caustic effects, etc). > > Like IPA, acetone (nail > > varnish remover), methylated sprit, etc, it's fairly flammable. > Er, fairly flammable? From the reports I've read, it's worse than petrol > (unleaded, LRP, take your pick). Actually it's somewhat harder to ignite than petrol, and harder than acetone. Petrol contains a number of fractions some of which are more volatile than MEK. From memory (because I don't have any figures handy) about 5%-10% of petrol is a fraction with BP around 20C-30C, and about 25% with BP in the range 30C-50C. Boiling Point of acetone is 56C, MEK is 80C. Petrol is rated as "extremely flammable", as are diethyl ether and petroleum ether; acetone, MEK, and IPA are all "highly flammable", as are ethanol and methanol. And if you want the TLV, it's 500ppm (that's without the nasty additives). > > BTW, the acetic acid given off > > by curing RTV is rated as 10-50 times more toxic than MEK :-) > Hmm... Acetic acid: TLV 10ppm TLV (threshold limit value) is a time-weighted average concentration to which a worker can be exposed day after day without adverse effect. > I've just found a page that lists some solvents and their uses - > http://www.seahawkpaints.com/solvents.html > It lists Xylene as being usable for epoxy and polyurethane resin removal. > Hmm... Shame the only source of xylene I have is the stuff mixed with > varnish in my Electrolube "CPL" lacquer pen. You can get it from some trade paint suppliers as it's used as a thinner for some epoxy paints. And of course from any industrial or laboratory chemical supplier, of which there are several in Yorkshire. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sat Jan 4 17:50:01 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: What am I missing here? Message-ID: <000c01c2b44c$5cee9910$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Maybe I misread and saw an extra zero, but this looks crazy to me: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=2085217 285 What's so special about this machine? Note: I have absolutely no affiliation with this auction (although I wish I was the seller). Erik From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sat Jan 4 18:00:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: Looking 4... References: <20030104050615.43626.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003e01c2b44d$e776a8b0$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 12:06 AM Subject: Re: Looking 4... > > --- David Vohs wrote: > > Anybody have a Compaq SLT/286 or a GRiDCase 3 that they want to get rid > > of for cheap? > > Nope... I'm using my Compaq SLT/286 to host my ancient ISA-based > device programmer. For those not following my ongoing issues > blow by blow, I just got it all working last night. Now all I > need is that replacement DS12887 to show up and I can button the > whole shebang up, nice and tidy. > > Thanks again, Bob! You've gotten more use out of it than I ever would have. > > -ethan Bob From danielrhicks at hotmail.com Sat Jan 4 18:08:00 2003 From: danielrhicks at hotmail.com (Daniel Hicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: What am I missing here? References: <000c01c2b44c$5cee9910$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: People have more money than sense?? I don't know. It's interesting though. Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erik S. Klein" To: Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 6:52 PM Subject: What am I missing here? > Maybe I misread and saw an extra zero, but this looks crazy to me: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=2085217 > 285 > > What's so special about this machine? > > Note: I have absolutely no affiliation with this auction (although I > wish I was the seller). > > Erik > From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Sat Jan 4 18:21:01 2003 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: What am I missing here? In-Reply-To: <000c01c2b44c$5cee9910$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: I'll sell ya one for $800... a bargain! > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Erik S. Klein > Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 6:53 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: What am I missing here? > > > Maybe I misread and saw an extra zero, but this looks crazy to me: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=2085217 > 285 > > What's so special about this machine? > > Note: I have absolutely no affiliation with this auction (although I > wish I was the seller). > > Erik > From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sat Jan 4 18:45:00 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: What am I missing here? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <628A94D0-2047-11D7-ABBA-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> A semi-common tactic (from what I have heard) is to 'bomb' and auction, by placing a huge bid, like $1000 on it, and nobody will be able to beat you. Of course, if two people try this tactic on the same auction, one of them is screwed. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 07:23 PM, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > I'll sell ya one for $800... a bargain! > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org >> [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On >> Behalf Of Erik S. Klein >> Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 6:53 PM >> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >> Subject: What am I missing here? >> >> >> Maybe I misread and saw an extra zero, but this looks crazy to me: >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ >> eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=2085217 >> 285 >> >> What's so special about this machine? >> >> Note: I have absolutely no affiliation with this auction (although I >> wish I was the seller). >> >> Erik >> > From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sat Jan 4 18:51:00 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: What am I missing here?(correction) In-Reply-To: <628A94D0-2047-11D7-ABBA-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2644EFF8-2048-11D7-ABBA-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Aaack! Typo. It was supposed to be "'bomb' an auction", not "'bomb' and auction". Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 07:48 PM, Ian Primus wrote: > A semi-common tactic (from what I have heard) is to 'bomb' and > auction, by placing a huge bid, like $1000 on it, and nobody will be > able to beat you. Of course, if two people try this tactic on the same > auction, one of them is screwed. > > Ian Primus > ian_primus@yahoo.com > > On Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 07:23 PM, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > >> I'll sell ya one for $800... a bargain! >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On >>> Behalf Of Erik S. Klein >>> Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 6:53 PM >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>> Subject: What am I missing here? >>> >>> >>> Maybe I misread and saw an extra zero, but this looks crazy to me: >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ >>> eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=2085217 >>> 285 >>> >>> What's so special about this machine? >>> >>> Note: I have absolutely no affiliation with this auction (although I >>> wish I was the seller). >>> >>> Erik >>> >> > From jcwren at jcwren.com Sat Jan 4 18:52:01 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: What am I missing here? In-Reply-To: <628A94D0-2047-11D7-ABBA-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <047b01c2b454$f522b420$020010ac@k4jcw> I don't know how this would work, because when you place a bid on eBay, it will only show the amount necessary to beat a previous bid. Which means if this guy is running in $10 increments, someone had $990 on it. --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Ian Primus > Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 19:48 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: What am I missing here? > > > A semi-common tactic (from what I have heard) is to 'bomb' > and auction, > by placing a huge bid, like $1000 on it, and nobody will be able to > beat you. Of course, if two people try this tactic on the > same auction, > one of them is screwed. > > Ian Primus > ian_primus@yahoo.com > > On Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 07:23 PM, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > > > I'll sell ya one for $800... a bargain! > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > >> [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > >> Behalf Of Erik S. Klein > >> Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 6:53 PM > >> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >> Subject: What am I missing here? > >> > >> > >> Maybe I misread and saw an extra zero, but this looks crazy to me: > >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ > >> eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=2085217 > >> 285 > >> > >> What's so special about this machine? > >> > >> Note: I have absolutely no affiliation with this auction > (although I > >> wish I was the seller). > >> > >> Erik > >> > > > From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sat Jan 4 19:15:00 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: What am I missing here? In-Reply-To: <047b01c2b454$f522b420$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <82606591-204B-11D7-ABBA-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 07:54 PM, J.C.Wren wrote: > I don't know how this would work, because when you place a bid on > eBay, it > will only show the amount necessary to beat a previous bid. Which > means if > this guy is running in $10 increments, someone had $990 on it. It shows the amount necessary to beat the current high bid - which isn't necessarily the same as that person's bid they placed. It's hard for me to explain in ASCII, but... Lets say I have a TRS-80 and I set the minimum bid at $10, and increments at $1. The first person bids $50. Then the current high bid would show $10, and the minimum bid would be $11. If the next person bids $30, they are immediately outbid, the high bid becomes $31, and the minimum bid becomes $32. In the event of a tie, for example if one person bids $1000, and then another person bids $1000, the high bid then goes to $1000, and the person who first bid the $1000 is considered the high bidder. This is my understanding anyway. Feel free to correct me. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From avickers at solutionengineers.com Sat Jan 4 19:18:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: What am I missing here? In-Reply-To: <047b01c2b454$f522b420$020010ac@k4jcw> References: <628A94D0-2047-11D7-ABBA-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030105011618.00b69f20@slave> At 00:54 05/01/2003, John Wren wrote: > I don't know how this would work, because when you place a bid on > eBay, it >will only show the amount necessary to beat a previous bid. Which means if >this guy is running in $10 increments, someone had $990 on it. Ah, but ebay will continue to auto-bid until either your top bid is reached, or your bid exceeds the current high bid. So, for example, if the current winner bid $1100, and the current 2nd placer bid $990, then the bidding stops (with the high bidder) at $1000. What is more likely is that the current winner bid exactly $1000, as did the current 2nd place bidder. However, since the current winner's bid takes precedence, it ends up at $1000... I can forsee that sale ending in negative feedback.... I can only assume that an earlier win by the buyer (TRS-80 Mod 1 with s/n 87) doesn't work, and he/she needs a working one to make repairs/swaps, so that s/n 87 becomes the valuable working machine. ICBW, of course... -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jan 4 19:37:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: What am I missing here? In-Reply-To: <047b01c2b454$f522b420$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Jan 2003, J.C.Wren wrote: > I don't know how this would work, because when you place a bid on eBay, it > will only show the amount necessary to beat a previous bid. Which means if > this guy is running in $10 increments, someone had $990 on it. Unless there is a "Reserve". In which case, the first bid that is over the reserve is bumped up NOT the amount to beat the prior bid,but all the way tothe reserve amount. From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Sat Jan 4 19:52:00 2003 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: What am I missing here? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The current high bidder recently bought just a system unit (serial number 000087) for $232.50. From aw288 at osfn.org Sat Jan 4 20:11:01 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: What am I missing here? In-Reply-To: <628A94D0-2047-11D7-ABBA-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: > A semi-common tactic (from what I have heard) is to 'bomb' and auction, > by placing a huge bid, like $1000 on it, and nobody will be able to > beat you. Of course, if two people try this tactic on the same auction, > one of them is screwed. You need two folks to do this - one a real bidder, and one fake. Run up the price to something outrageous, then towards the end of the auction, retract the fake bid. In the meantime, many people are scared away. This is called "bid sheltering", and is expressly forbidden by Ebay rules. I must say that I have never actually seen this happen, but I know it does. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sat Jan 4 20:59:01 2003 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: New to list In-Reply-To: <200301040106.h0416Gh19525@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <1599A448-205A-11D7-A221-000502512D39@calico.litterbox.com> I think the BeBox will be vintage (10 years old) in 2006. Time flies, eh? I used BeOS on my PC for several years, until the company took to lying to everyone about their future plans and folded due to bad management. -Jim Strickland On Friday, January 3, 2003, at 06:06 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote: >> BTW, the standard definition of "vintage" on this list is 10 years >> old or >> older, although many would draw the line at the introduction of the >> IBM PC! > > While a lot of us could care less about IBM PC's, there is always the > unofficial 'really cool tech' clause that sometimes gets invoked :^) > It can > cover such stuff as BeBoxes, and NeXT slabs (though I guess NeXT slabs > are > on topic now). > > Zane > > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------- MacOS X Powered! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------- From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sat Jan 4 21:12:00 2003 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: New Garage Sale item... sorta kinda... Message-ID: <20030104190901.I51069-100000@agora.rdrop.com> kinda sorta... Anyone need/have a use for Honeywell M4260 disk cartridges? Look to be about 8 inches in diameter, enclosed square case. Looks like a 'slide in' type drive. With dust covers/cases. Appear to be in good condition, but I have nothing that will use them. Have six of them. $2.50/ea + shipping -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From pat at purdueriots.com Sat Jan 4 21:17:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: OS/2 manuals In-Reply-To: <3E15537D.884602F6@Vishay.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > Patrick, > > well, in your case, I'll make an exception and ship to the US. I will, > however, yet have to find out about shipping costs. The package weighs > something between 2 and 3kg, so I guess it may be something around 30 > Euro. I promise not to charge more than actual shipping cost if you are > the winning bidder. > > Two words of caution: > > 1) This is a German language version of OS/2. I assume that the included > manuals will also be in German. This is why I'd prefer you be in the US... German would be neat, but I'd have clue what it said. I can speak 'un peu' of French, but that's pretty rusty too since I haven't really done anything involved in French 5 years ago in highschool. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 4 21:33:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: New Garage Sale item... sorta kinda... In-Reply-To: <20030104190901.I51069-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <20030105033542.56808.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- James Willing wrote: > Anyone need/have a use for Honeywell M4260 disk cartridges? > > Look to be about 8 inches in diameter, enclosed square case. Looks like > a 'slide in' type drive. With dust covers/cases. Appear to be in good > condition, but I have nothing that will use them. Those sound vaguely like the cartridges for the DEC RC25. Had one of those in an 11/725 once. Never seen the M4260, so I don't know how similar/dissimilar they really are. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From glenslick at hotmail.com Sat Jan 4 22:55:00 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: Config info on HP1000 memory? Message-ID: Memory locations 000000 and 000001 are the A and B registers, so if they work ok that might not say anything about the state of main memory. I don't believe memory location 000002 is mapped to anything special though. >From: James Willing > >Memory locations 0-2 seem to be OK, but anything above that Bit 3 is >stuck on. Tried multiple memory boards - same results. Thinking I >should find/make a new ribbon cable to try. Or could the memory >controller be funky? _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jan 5 02:07:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: Eagle Computer needs new home Message-ID: Reply-to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 22:34:35 -0700 From: bobk1 Subject: Eagle Computer I have an original Eagle Computer with this huge external ( as in big goofy looking box ) 10 megabyte winchester hard drive, 5 1/4 " floppy and documentation. It stills fires up under MS DOS and I believe it has an original version of Lotus 123 on it and maybe word perfect. It's been so long I dont even know whats there. Who knows it may even have some vintage porn on it.. Any interest? What is it worth? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From computermuseum at pandora.be Sun Jan 5 06:17:00 2003 From: computermuseum at pandora.be (Computermuseum) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: New found In-Reply-To: <20030104200250.GA14669@ickis.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: Hi, I'm very happy at this particulary moment. I've just received from a guy who's doing the cleaning in it's cellar, a complete working Apple II Plus, with all original documentation + een AppleII Duodisk (2 diskdrives in one case), Joysticks, original dosfiles and two original games, and also 4 original cassettes with software on it. Is this machine a rare find? I do live in Europe, it works here without any problems... (I thought that normally a Apple II Plus was an American machine???) All the best Michel From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Jan 5 08:38:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: Acetone container swelling; safe to keep? (was: Looking 4...) In-Reply-To: <10301042323.ZM23879@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <20030104050615.43626.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> <002d01c2b3cc$f2ff19a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <003901c2b3d8$e41e6420$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <10301041140.ZM23596@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <00b301c2b3ed$db1c9620$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <10301042323.ZM23879@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20030105150801.GG36939@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe pete@dunnington.u-net.com, from writings of Sat, Jan 04, 2003 at 11:23:13PM +0000: > On Jan 4, 12:36, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Acetone: TLV 1000ppm Speaking of Acetone, I noticed that an old metal container of it that I have keeps swelling up and creasing the metal a bit after it's reclosed, and vapors hiss out of it when it's opened. The container is slightly rusty, and probably only about six or seven years old. Is this anything to be concerned about? -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From quapla at xs4all.nl Sun Jan 5 08:43:00 2003 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (quapla@xs4all.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: Acetone container swelling; safe to keep? (was: Looking 4...) In-Reply-To: <20030105150801.GG36939@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20030104050615.43626.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> <002d01c2b3cc$f2ff19a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <003901c2b3d8$e41e6420$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <10301041140.ZM23596@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <00b301c2b3ed$db1c9620$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <10301042323.ZM23879@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20030105150801.GG36939@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20887.194.109.71.65.1041777928.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> Use a plastic or a glass bottle. If there is a sparc next time you open it it may fry your eyebrows and/or hair!. Ed > Quothe pete@dunnington.u-net.com, from writings of Sat, Jan 04, 2003 at > 11:23:13PM +0000: > >> On Jan 4, 12:36, Philip Pemberton wrote: >> Acetone: TLV 1000ppm > > Speaking of Acetone, I noticed that an old metal container of it that > I have keeps swelling up and creasing the metal a bit after it's > reclosed, and vapors hiss out of it when it's opened. The container > is slightly rusty, and probably only about six or seven years old. Is > this anything to be concerned about? > > -- > Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other > animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature > & > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify > such > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Jan 5 09:04:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: Computers stored in barns (was: A bit more about me...) In-Reply-To: <3E175F0A.A83C744C@eagle.ca> References: <3E175F0A.A83C744C@eagle.ca> Message-ID: <20030105153442.GH36939@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe C. Murray McCullough, from writings of Sat, Jan 04, 2003 at 05:24:10PM -0500: > active as they're in storage in the barn. I raise horses. Are these stored in an area where the temperature doesn't get too cold, e.g., where there are a lot of 4-legged space heaters :-), or in a part of the barn where temperatures vary more? How do you prevent damage to the systems from rodents, dampness, birds and spiders, etc.? Hopefully these systems aren't stored near any cedar shavings used for stall bedding, as the fumes from the plicatic (sp?) acid in the cedar can damage any copper used in circuit boards, etc. Does anyone know if the abietic acid in pine shavings/dust causes similar problems? Speaking of barns, an idea just occured to me that may be helpful to those on the list who have tractor-accessible rack-mounted computers in their collections (I seem to recall that there's at least one such person this list): for installing heavyish items in racks, such as Fujitsu Eagle disk drives, I was just thinking: has anyone attempted welding something together that can attach to a tractor's hydraulics and lift items into place for safer and easier insertion in the rack, by one person? -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jan 5 09:24:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: New finds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030105095225.47cff77e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> >3) Tektronix 7854 Waveform Calculator .. looks to be a part of something > else, what I have is just a pad with a bunch of buttons and a cable > with a DB-25M on the end. I'm also willing to sell this. > $ free Sounds like you got the keyboard that goes with a Tek 7854 scope. With the keyboard you can use the scope to do some calculations based on the measurements that it's reading. I think the keyboards are a bit scarce. Probably worth a few bucks to someone that needs one or on E-bay. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jan 5 09:24:20 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: substitute for TI TIL306/307 Display? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20030103170023.47cfc732@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030101182435.46b79dfc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20021231160657.0f370e7a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20021231160657.0f370e7a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030101182435.46b79dfc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030103170023.47cfc732@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030105101017.47af3b7c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:18 AM 1/4/03 -0600, you wrote: > >I have the datasheet for the 311 in pdf format if you'd like me to email >it to you. The 311 has a built-in BCD decoder, but not a counter, like the >306/307. I need the counter function but I'd like a copy of the PDF anyway. > >> > I'll make a note to check a couple of my local surplus dealers over >> > the next few weeks. If I find any TIL306 displays, I'll pick them up. >> > Should I also hunt for any 307s? >> >> 306's or 307s will work equally well. The one difference between them is >> that one has the decimal point to the left of the digit and the other >> has the dp on the right. My unit doesn't use the decimal points so >> either display will work fine. > >Ok, thats what I wanted to be sure of. Often devices didn't use the >decimal points, but I didn't want to assume that was the case. > >> > If all else fails, would it be possible to salvage your displays? I've >> > carefully ground back ceramic and plastic on other dip components to >> > attach replacement leads in the past, but it isn't a fun task... >> >> It's possible but all the leads on them are weak and I'd probably have >> to eventually replace ALL the leads. > >Been there, done that. I have a pile of early 74244s and other 7400 series >logic chips that have nearly nothing left of their leads due to the foam >that were stored in for roughly 15-20 years. Same here. I squirreled away a lot of parts over the years but found that many of them were damaged due to the foam. Fortunately I've get some pretty good scrap sources and I've been finding lots of military grade cards with socketed ICs in the last couple of years so I've been picking them up and pulling the ICs and storing them in parts cabinets. I've amassed a huge stock in just the last year. I was also lucky last year and picked up a good number of parts cabinets that have all the drawers made out of anti-static material. I had been keeping the parts in anti-static foam for AS protestion but now I don't have to. .Thankfully, the TIL311s and >most of the other chips that came in the same batch of parts didn't have >the same problem, though their leads had to be cleaned. I have a fair number of 308 and 311 displays that I've pulled from cards and the local surplus place has plenty of them but the 306/307s seem to be scarce. Joe > >-Toth > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jan 5 09:24:25 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: New to list In-Reply-To: <49867.213.250.80.125.1041673882.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030103221059.039b2500@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20030103161400.02ca8008@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20030103221059.039b2500@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030105103201.47af7172@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:51 AM 1/4/03 +0200, you wrote: > >Matthew Sell said: > >> >> Anybody here have a lead on a Boeing B-29 Superfortress for sale or rescue >> ? >> > >I remember seeing a documentary about a bunch of guys trying to rescue a >B-17 (I think, WW II, silver colour etc.) from either greenland or >from some similar cold place (it's -30 celsius outside at the moment >so I *can* relate :-) It was a truly sad documentary. One member of the >team got pneumonia and passed away, they had a million obstacles in their >way. > >I don't remember the name of the documentary but I'd love to see it again. > >(spoiler warning...) > > > > >After the said obstacles they were able to repair the plane, created >a makeshift runway on the glacier, taxiid the plane to the end of >the runway (excitement building up here...) and the plane caught fire >and burned down. > >It was a *very* sad moment. Theree are two differnt but similar documentaries that I know of. One shows where they tried to rescue a B-29 from (I think) Northern Canada. That's the one that caught on fire and burned up :-(. The other is about the rescue of a P-38 that crash landed on a glacier in Greenland. A group recently went there and bored through over two hunderd feet of ice, found and dismantled the P-38 and brought it to the surface a piece at a time. Since then it has been completely restored and is flying again. They're named it "Glacier Girl". The relevent part of this story is that there are six(?) more P-38s and two B-17s on (in!) the same glacier! It seems that the nazies were operating a fake radio station in the North Atlantic and caused the planes to go off course and use up all of their fuel and all of the planes in that flight had to crash land in Greenland. Now for a sad story. One of my former teachers was stationed at a B-29 base (Tinian?) in the Pacific when WW-II ended. He said B-29s from all over that part of the pacific were gathered there and that they were in such a hurry to dispose of everything and get home that as soon as the B-29s landed the crew was taken off and the planes were pushed into a huge ravine at the end of the runway. He said they destroyed hundreds of B-29s that way! He also said that NOTHINHG was taken off of them before they were dumped, no maps, no guns, no ammo, not even the fuel. He did say that he snuck into one of them later and removed a tool kit but that it was a court-marshall offense. Joe From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Jan 5 10:19:01 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: Acetone container swelling; safe to keep? (was: Looking 4...) References: <20030104050615.43626.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> <002d01c2b3cc$f2ff19a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <003901c2b3d8$e41e6420$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <10301041140.ZM23596@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <00b301c2b3ed$db1c9620$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <10301042323.ZM23879@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20030105150801.GG36939@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <20887.194.109.71.65.1041777928.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <01b501c2b4d6$b9cc2500$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 9:45 AM Subject: Re: Acetone container swelling; safe to keep? (was: Looking 4...) > > Use a plastic or a glass bottle. If there is a sparc next time you open it > it may fry your eyebrows and/or hair!. Er, an on-topic Sparc wouldn't run that hot, would it? I'd be more concerned if it was beside an Alpha-- my DEC 3000-800 will heat our basement noticably! > > Ed Bob > > > Quothe pete@dunnington.u-net.com, from writings of Sat, Jan 04, 2003 at > > 11:23:13PM +0000: > > > >> On Jan 4, 12:36, Philip Pemberton wrote: > >> Acetone: TLV 1000ppm > > > > Speaking of Acetone, I noticed that an old metal container of it that > > I have keeps swelling up and creasing the metal a bit after it's > > reclosed, and vapors hiss out of it when it's opened. The container > > is slightly rusty, and probably only about six or seven years old. Is > > this anything to be concerned about? > > > > -- > > Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other > > animals: > > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature > > & > > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify > > such > > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jan 5 11:18:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: What am I missing here? In-Reply-To: <000c01c2b44c$5cee9910$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030105120825.483776a4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:52 PM 1/4/03 -0800, you wrote: >Maybe I misread and saw an extra zero, but this looks crazy to me: >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=2085217 >285 > >What's so special about this machine? Not much! It's not even the first model of the TRS-I. The first model didn't have the numeric keypad. I used to have one but gave it away. Joe From quapla at xs4all.nl Sun Jan 5 13:18:00 2003 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (quapla@xs4all.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: Acetone container swelling; safe to keep? (was: Looking 4...) In-Reply-To: <01b501c2b4d6$b9cc2500$7d00a8c0@george> References: <20030104050615.43626.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> <002d01c2b3cc$f2ff19a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <003901c2b3d8$e41e6420$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <10301041140.ZM23596@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <00b301c2b3ed$db1c9620$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <10301042323.ZM23879@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20030105150801.GG36939@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <20887.194.109.71.65.1041777928.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> <01b501c2b4d6$b9cc2500$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <24106.194.109.71.65.1041794460.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> > Er, an on-topic Sparc wouldn't run that hot, would it? I'd be more Well, an Ultra-Sparc III at 1050MHz may consume about 200 Watts or more.... A reasonable amount of heat I think :=) Usually I let my 11/70 run for about an hour, then my hobby room is warm enough to work in. > concerned if it was beside an Alpha-- my DEC 3000-800 will heat our > basement noticably! Ed From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Jan 5 13:21:00 2003 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: Acetone container swelling; safe to keep? (was: Looking 4...) Message-ID: <103.2361453b.2b49dfdb@aol.com> In a message dated 1/5/2003 9:42:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, rdd@rddavis.org writes: << Speaking of Acetone, I noticed that an old metal container of it that I have keeps swelling up and creasing the metal a bit after it's reclosed, and vapors hiss out of it when it's opened. The container is slightly rusty, and probably only about six or seven years old. Is this anything to be concerned about? -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis >> uh, you think? Since it's rusting, you've got leaks on the way I'm sure. It's cheap enough to replace instead of replacing whatever it damages will would cost more. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jan 5 14:07:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: Acetone container swelling; safe to keep? In-Reply-To: quapla@xs4all.nl "Re: Acetone container swelling; safe to keep? (was: Looking 4...)" (Jan 5, 15:45) References: <20030104050615.43626.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> <002d01c2b3cc$f2ff19a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <003901c2b3d8$e41e6420$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <10301041140.ZM23596@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <00b301c2b3ed$db1c9620$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <10301042323.ZM23879@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20030105150801.GG36939@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <20887.194.109.71.65.1041777928.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <10301051952.ZM24475@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 5, 15:45, quapla@xs4all.nl wrote: > Use a plastic or a glass bottle. If there is a sparc next time you open it > it may fry your eyebrows and/or hair!. NOT plastic. Acetone, MEK, toluene, and many other organic solvents are sometimes supplied in 1-litre pastic containers but should not be kept in plastic for long-term storage. Even polythene bottles will be damaged in the long term -- they go brittle as the plasticisers are leached out. Such things are normally kept in glass bottles for small quantities, say up to 500ml, or metal tins for a litre or more. >On Jan 5, 10:08, R. D. Davis wrote: > > Speaking of Acetone, I noticed that an old metal container of it that > > I have keeps swelling up and creasing the metal a bit after it's > > reclosed, and vapors hiss out of it when it's opened. The container > > is slightly rusty, and probably only about six or seven years old. Is > > this anything to be concerned about? Is it kept somewhere warm? It should be kept cool (no more than 68deg F). If it's reasonably pure acetone, I can't think of any reaction it should have with steel or tin, so I guess what you're noticing is evaporation causing a slight pressure buildup in the can. Unless it's contaminated -- it doesn't co-exist well with some other solvents (such as chloroform) and moderately strong oxidising agents, or some catalysts (including some forms of carbon). If it's rusting, then you should probably replace the can before it becomes weak enough to leak. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From foxvideo at wincom.net Sun Jan 5 14:41:00 2003 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: Fwd: OT Problems loading Linux Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030105154340.00b2dc10@mail.wincom.net> >Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 06:57:39 -0500 >To: cctakl@classiccmp.org >From: "Charles E. Fox" >Subject: OT Problems loading Linux > >Does anyone have any suggestions on how I should prepare an old (6 gig) >hard drive to receive Linux? The installation program keeps telling me >that the partitions are full. > >Thanks > > Charlie Fox > > Charles E. Fox Video Production > 793 Argyle Rd. > Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 > 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net > Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" > at http://chasfoxvideo.com Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jan 5 14:47:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: Acetone container swelling; safe to keep? (was: Looking 4...) In-Reply-To: <103.2361453b.2b49dfdb@aol.com> Message-ID: > Speaking of Acetone, I noticed that an old metal container of it that > I have keeps swelling up and creasing the metal a bit after it's > reclosed, and vapors hiss out of it when it's opened. The container > is slightly rusty, and probably only about six or seven years old. Is > this anything to be concerned about? Never eat or drink anything from a container that has started to swell or bulge at the seams. From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Sun Jan 5 14:54:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: Acetone container swelling; safe to keep? (was: Looking 4...) In-Reply-To: <20030105150801.GG36939@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <10301042323.ZM23879@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20030104050615.43626.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> <002d01c2b3cc$f2ff19a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <003901c2b3d8$e41e6420$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <10301041140.ZM23596@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <00b301c2b3ed$db1c9620$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <10301042323.ZM23879@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030105154200.056aabd0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Robert, >Speaking of Acetone, I noticed that an old metal container of it that >I have keeps swelling up and creasing the metal a bit The container is ... probably only about six or seven years old. Is this anything to be concerned about? If you have a natural gas heater, hot water heater, or stove, with a pilot light, you might have the makings for an explosion and fire if that can of acetone can springs a leak and the vapors are ignited by a pilot light. You might even be able to get an ignition spark off a heater's wall thermostat. I had a gasoline can made in the style of a military jerry can that expanded and contracted too many times such that the metal fatigued and it did spring a leak and the gasoline leaked out in the back of an enclosed pickup truck camper shell, soaking the carpeting inside. Had there been a source of ignition at the time, that truck would have burned to the ground. A new quart of acetone is only about $5 to $8 if I remember correctly. Doesn't even compare to what it would cost you if your house burns down. At 10:08 AM 1/5/03 -0500, you wrote: >Quothe pete@dunnington.u-net.com, from writings of Sat, Jan 04, 2003 at >11:23:13PM +0000: > > > On Jan 4, 12:36, Philip Pemberton wrote: > > Acetone: TLV 1000ppm > >Speaking of Acetone, I noticed that an old metal container of it that >I have keeps swelling up and creasing the metal a bit after it's >reclosed, and vapors hiss out of it when it's opened. The container >is slightly rusty, and probably only about six or seven years old. Is >this anything to be concerned about? > >-- >Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: >All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & >rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify >such >http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Jan 5 15:01:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: Acetone container swelling; safe to keep? (was: Looking 4...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > Speaking of Acetone, I noticed that an old metal container of it that > > I have keeps swelling up and creasing the metal a bit after it's > > reclosed, and vapors hiss out of it when it's opened. The container > > is slightly rusty, and probably only about six or seven years old. Is > > this anything to be concerned about? > > Never eat or drink anything from a container that has started to swell or > bulge at the seams. > > Oh, just great!! You mean that all this Trichloretehylene that I've been so carefully aging is now useless? And I was saving it for my birthday party.... damn. John From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Jan 5 15:03:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: Fwd: OT Problems loading Linux References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030105154340.00b2dc10@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <3E189DA4.4030209@jetnet.ab.ca> Charles E. Fox wrote: > >> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 06:57:39 -0500 >> To: cctakl@classiccmp.org >> From: "Charles E. Fox" >> Subject: OT Problems loading Linux >> >> Does anyone have any suggestions on how I should prepare an old (6 >> gig) hard drive to receive Linux? The installation program keeps >> telling me that the partitions are full. >> >> Thanks Delete works wonders. :) Note some versions of linux will not boot in a partition greater than 1 gig and have other limitations on the location of the boot partion. FreeBSD doers not have this problem. Ben. From dave at naffnet.org.uk Sun Jan 5 15:07:01 2003 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:03 2005 Subject: Acetone container swelling; safe to keep? (was: Looking 4...) References: Message-ID: <3E189F37.FB6C0909@naffnet.org.uk> John Lawson wrote: > [... ] > > > Never eat or drink anything from a container that has started to swell or > > bulge at the seams. > > > > > Oh, just great!! You mean that all this Trichloretehylene that I've > been so carefully aging is now useless? And I was saving it for my > birthday party.... > > damn. > > John You'd better just inject it, then! Dave. From msell at ontimesupport.com Sun Jan 5 15:07:09 2003 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: Fwd: OT Problems loading Linux In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030105154340.00b2dc10@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030105150810.0315ec20@127.0.0.1> Charlie, Which distribution/version of Linux? A couple of tips would probably be okay - but much more than that and you may want to ask this question on a mailing list or newsgroup dedicated to the particular distribution of Linux. Just to keep everyone here at CC happy.... : ) - Matt At 03:44 PM 1/5/2003 -0500, you wrote: >>Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 06:57:39 -0500 >>To: cctakl@classiccmp.org >>From: "Charles E. Fox" >>Subject: OT Problems loading Linux >> >>Does anyone have any suggestions on how I should prepare an old (6 gig) >>hard drive to receive Linux? The installation program keeps telling me >>that the partitions are full. > > > >Matthew Sell >Programmer >On Time Support, Inc. >www.ontimesupport.com >(281) 296-6066 > >Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! >http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. > > >"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad >"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler > >Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030105/05adaad3/attachment.html From cmurray at eagle.ca Sun Jan 5 15:12:00 2003 From: cmurray at eagle.ca (C. Murray McCullough) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: Re.: Computers stored in barn; questions answered Message-ID: <3E18A04B.79EBB5A6@eagle.ca> R. D. Davis wrote: Are these stored in an area where the temperature doesn't get too cold, e.g., where there are a lot of 4-legged space heaters :-), or in a part of the barn where temperatures vary more? How do you prevent damage to the systems from rodents, dampness, birds and spiders, etc.? Hopefully these systems aren't stored near any cedar shavings used for stall bedding, as the fumes from the plicatic (sp?) acid in the cedar can damage any copper used in circuit boards, etc. Does anyone know if the abietic acid in pine shavings/dust causes similar problems? R. D. - I don't use cedar or pine shavings, just plain wheat straw. The temperature varies across the year. The computers are in wooden boxes, not cedar or pine, and the inside is covered with a black plastic that rodents don't chew on. They have been in the barn since the summer of 1987. I think they're all intact. Have to see this summer. Murray-- From fernande at internet1.net Sun Jan 5 15:16:01 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: Acetone container swelling; safe to keep? (was: Looking 4...) In-Reply-To: <20030105150801.GG36939@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20030104050615.43626.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> <002d01c2b3cc$f2ff19a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <003901c2b3d8$e41e6420$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <10301041140.ZM23596@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <00b301c2b3ed$db1c9620$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <10301042323.ZM23879@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20030105150801.GG36939@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3E18A11C.8050307@internet1.net> R. D. Davis wrote: > Speaking of Acetone, I noticed that an old metal container of it that > I have keeps swelling up and creasing the metal a bit after it's > reclosed, and vapors hiss out of it when it's opened. The container > is slightly rusty, and probably only about six or seven years old. Is > this anything to be concerned about? If it's just a bit of surface rust, I wouldn't worry about it. The container swells a little when some of the acetone evaporates. Store it somehere out of harms way. The garage on a shelf is usually safe, unless maybe your a welder, or it's heated. I kept my laquer thinner in my linen closet in my apartment :-) I had most of my other cleaning products in there too..... more so than linens :-) It was right next to the furnace closet, but all caps were on tight, and I used various cleaning products often enough, so that I easily kept track of what was there, and that it was still in good condition. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From foo at siconic.com Sun Jan 5 15:18:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: New found In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Computermuseum wrote: > I've just received from a guy who's doing the cleaning in it's cellar, a > complete working Apple II Plus, with all original documentation + een > AppleII Duodisk (2 diskdrives in one case), Joysticks, original dosfiles > and two original games, and also 4 original cassettes with software on > it. > > Is this machine a rare find? I do live in Europe, it works here without > any problems... (I thought that normally a Apple II Plus was an American > machine???) Hi Michel. I guess for Europe it's a rare find. They are not uncommon in the US. You probably have an Apple ][ Europlus. It was an Apple ][+ made specifically for the European market. What kind of keyboard does it have? European or US? Some of the power supplies were switchable between 110V and 220V. Perhaps yours was upgraded with one of these power supplies. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Jan 5 17:20:01 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: Acetone container swelling; safe to keep? (was: Looking 4...) In-Reply-To: References: <103.2361453b.2b49dfdb@aol.com> Message-ID: <20030105235009.GJ36939@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Fred Cisin (XenoSoft), from writings of Sun, Jan 05, 2003 at 12:49:40PM -0800: > > Speaking of Acetone, I noticed that an old metal container of it that > > I have keeps swelling up and creasing the metal a bit after it's > > Never eat or drink anything from a container that has started to swell or > bulge at the seams. Nah, wasn't planning to; haven't felt much like enjoying an ice cream soda with ginger ale and a dash of acetone lately. Besides, there's no point in risking coming down with a case of botulism from that acetone in a bulging container. ;-) -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jplist at kiwigeek.com Sun Jan 5 18:05:00 2003 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: Fwd: OT Problems loading Linux In-Reply-To: <3E189DA4.4030209@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: If a Linux kernel version is unable to boot on a 1 gig disk, it would have to be a VERY old revision - Released around 1992/93. You would have to hunt VERY hard to find that. Linux has no issues on boot partition locations. Boot loaders might. Old versions of LILO can be picky, mostly its BIOS problems not liking disks. Delete all the partitions, clear the disk entirely, and then wind up the installer. Make the partitions inside the installer. Easy. Any idiot can do it. Even BSD users ;) JP On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, ben franchuk wrote: > Delete works wonders. :) > Note some versions of linux will not boot in a partition greater > than 1 gig and have other limitations on the location of the boot > partion. FreeBSD doers not have this problem. Ben. > Charles E. Fox wrote: > >> To: cctakl@classiccmp.org > >> From: "Charles E. Fox" > >> Subject: OT Problems loading Linux > >> Does anyone have any suggestions on how I should prepare an old (6 > >> gig) hard drive to receive Linux? The installation program keeps > >> telling me that the partitions are full. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Jan 5 18:10:01 2003 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: Fwd: OT Problems loading Linux In-Reply-To: from JP Hindin at "Jan 5, 3 06:07:54 pm" Message-ID: <200301060023.QAA10438@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Easy. Any idiot can do it. Even BSD users ;) Don't mess with us. We don't have a demon as our logo for nothing. ;-) There was a very funny anecdote on rec.humor.funny.reruns about a guy in the Midwest who showed up in a local business establishment with a BSD T-shirt, complete with red devil, and was mistaken for a Satanist. Heh heh heh. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- When you don't know what you're doing, do it neatly. ----------------------- From jplist at kiwigeek.com Sun Jan 5 19:11:00 2003 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: Fwd: OT Problems loading Linux In-Reply-To: <200301060023.QAA10438@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: Buddy, I live in the MidWest. I can imagine that happening all to easily. I was only giving Ben grief - I have plenty of respect for BSD; I just prefer Linux... If I wasn't using Linux, I'd use BSD you can count on it. JP On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > Easy. Any idiot can do it. Even BSD users ;) > Don't mess with us. We don't have a demon as our logo for nothing. ;-) > > There was a very funny anecdote on rec.humor.funny.reruns about a guy in the > Midwest who showed up in a local business establishment with a BSD T-shirt, > complete with red devil, and was mistaken for a Satanist. Heh heh heh. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sun Jan 5 19:30:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Dec 2002, John Lawson wrote: > The movie industry magazine Daily Variety has, every Thursday, a > complete list of all films known to be in current production. Any film of > sufficient stature to have Kate Winslet in it will most likely be listed > there.... though it is not infallible. Most large bookstalls and news > outlets in major cities carry DV and the Hollywood Reporter. It shouldn't > be too hard to verify. Yeah, there are also these things called Google and IMDB which are useful for finding out information about films in production: http://us.imdb.com/Title?0338013 So, _Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind_ does seem to be a legitimate production. According to IMDB, they begin shooting in mid-January of 2003. Fred's comment about the spelling of Carrey's and Winslet's names is a bit confusing; the names are spelled correctly. Charlie Kaufman, who wrote _Being John Malkovich_, is the writer for the film, so I imagine it'll be pretty interesting in spite of Jim Carrey starring in it. Whether or not Noah Fox's request is authentic or not is left as an excercise for the owner of an Amstrad PPC640; however, I don't see anything in his request that doesn't jibe with reality. It is maybe a bit unorthodox, but then I'd not at all be surprised by someone searching Google for information on Amstrad PPC640s and finding this list as a reasonable place to ask about one. -brian. From d-gordon at sbcglobal.net Sun Jan 5 19:32:00 2003 From: d-gordon at sbcglobal.net (Dave) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: What am I missing here? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes, it does happen ("bid sheltering") and the seller can chose not to sell the item if it does in fact happen. So no loss. Also no bad feedback either because the item gets removed as a cancelled sale after the fact. I have seen this happen. I think the actual term is "bid shielding". -Dave > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of William Donzelli > Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 6:14 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: What am I missing here? > > > > A semi-common tactic (from what I have heard) is to 'bomb' and > auction, > > by placing a huge bid, like $1000 on it, and nobody will be able to > > beat you. Of course, if two people try this tactic on the same > auction, > > one of them is screwed. > > You need two folks to do this - one a real bidder, and one fake. Run up > the price to something outrageous, then towards the end of the auction, > retract the fake bid. In the meantime, many people are scared away. This > is called "bid sheltering", and is expressly forbidden by Ebay rules. > > I must say that I have never actually seen this happen, but I > know it does. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Sun Jan 5 19:49:01 2003 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: Fwd: OT Problems loading Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A coworker of mine, a very long time ago, freaked out an inexperienced Sun tech support person by talking about the "demons" (daemons) in his computer. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of JP Hindin > Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 8:14 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Fwd: OT Problems loading Linux > > > > Buddy, I live in the MidWest. > I can imagine that happening all to easily. > > I was only giving Ben grief - I have plenty of respect for BSD; I just > prefer Linux... If I wasn't using Linux, I'd use BSD you can count on it. > > JP > > > On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > Easy. Any idiot can do it. Even BSD users ;) > > Don't mess with us. We don't have a demon as our logo for nothing. ;-) > > > > There was a very funny anecdote on rec.humor.funny.reruns about a guy in the > > Midwest who showed up in a local business establishment with a BSD T-shirt, > > complete with red devil, and was mistaken for a Satanist. Heh heh heh. > From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sun Jan 5 19:57:01 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: Oersted Ratings of DC300A and DC600 Tape Cartridges In-Reply-To: <3E1375DD.713F0F4A@rain.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, Marvin Johnston wrote: > Wonderful, thanks much for the information!!! Due to financial concerns, > I am selling my IBM 5100 (sigh) on Ebay. Most of the tapes were DC300A, > and the extra ones I have are the DC600s. I am in the process of > duplicating the tapes, 1) so I can keep a set of the Patch and Games > tapes in case I can ever afford another one :), and 2) to make sure the > tapes are readable. Thanks again! If at all possible, it would be wise to store file images of these tapes on CDs or some other more modern storage format. I'm not sure exactly how one would go about doing this, but maybe someone on the list can offer some suggestions. -brian. From bpope at wordstock.com Sun Jan 5 19:58:01 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: ./ does the Reuters article... :( Message-ID: <200301060156.UAA29778@wordstock.com> All, Slashdot *finally* ran something about the Reuters article at http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=technologyNews&storyID=1991627 but they feel the need to slam the classiccmp site in the same breath :(! Check it out at http://slashdot.org/articles/03/01/06/0040259.shtml?tid=137 Cheers, Bryan From jingber at ix.netcom.com Sun Jan 5 20:03:01 2003 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: ./ does the Reuters article... :( In-Reply-To: <200301060156.UAA29778@wordstock.com> References: <200301060156.UAA29778@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <1041818712.2488.9.camel@supermicro> This is SOP for Slashdot. If you think the news snippet is a slam, wait until you read the feedback. You will not find a single positive, constructive comment. Jeff On Sun, 2003-01-05 at 20:56, Bryan Pope wrote: > > All, > > Slashdot *finally* ran something about the Reuters article at > http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=technologyNews&storyID=1991627 > but they feel the need to slam the classiccmp site in the same breath :(! > > Check it out at http://slashdot.org/articles/03/01/06/0040259.shtml?tid=137 > > Cheers, > > Bryan > From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sun Jan 5 20:15:01 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: New to list In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030103161400.02ca8008@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Matthew Sell wrote: > (anybody collect RADAR equipment here?) Hey... do /you/ collect RADAR equipment? I don't, but I've an acquaintence who has an interest in it. -brian. From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Jan 5 20:18:01 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: What am I missing here? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Yes, it does happen ("bid sheltering") and the seller can chose not to sell > the item if it does in fact happen. So no loss. Also no bad feedback > either because the item gets removed as a cancelled sale after the fact. I > have seen this happen. The scammer still gets away with what he intended - lots of potential competition are scared away. If the sale does not go thru - wait 'til next time! > I think the actual term is "bid shielding". Yes, it is. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From herr_kommisar at yahoo.com Sun Jan 5 20:18:06 2003 From: herr_kommisar at yahoo.com (Art) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: New to list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030106022130.8165.qmail@web20503.mail.yahoo.com> I have a friend thats big time into collection all the old type radar detectors and such. All those old Fuzz busters and that type. He's got a neat setup. --- Brian Chase wrote: > On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Matthew Sell wrote: > > > (anybody collect RADAR equipment here?) > > Hey... do /you/ collect RADAR equipment? I don't, > but I've an > acquaintence who has an interest in it. > > -brian. > ===== Der Digital Kommisar From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Jan 5 20:22:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: Busted Mac Message-ID: I do not normally fix old micros, but I thought I would give this a try. It is an original 128K Mac, with lots of extra goodies. On power-up, I get a sick beep, a dead Mac icon, various pixels on the screen flicker after the screen test, and the code "048298". Not quite dead, but pretty close. What does this code mean? Also, can someone repost that trick for making a tool to get the case open? Thanks! William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Jan 5 20:35:01 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: New to list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Hey... do /you/ collect RADAR equipment? I don't, but I've an > acquaintence who has an interest in it. Who is this acquaintence? Maybe I know him. You can email me off list if you wish. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Jan 5 20:39:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: New to list In-Reply-To: <20030106022130.8165.qmail@web20503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > I have a friend thats big time into collection all the > old type radar detectors and such. All those old Fuzz > busters and that type. He's got a neat setup. Radar "detectors" are only fun unless "fuzz" equals "Commies". "ECM is a four letter word" - Unknown, scribbled on a B-52. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Jan 5 20:50:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: Another Mac case opening tool hack (was: Busted Mac) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030106032036.GK36939@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe William Donzelli, from writings of Sun, Jan 05, 2003 at 09:25:29PM -0500: > Also, can someone repost that trick for making a tool to get the case > open? Not recalling what the other trick was, here's an alternate idea. All that you need is: the almost appropriate tool that isn't long enough; a suitable piece if steel rod about the same diameter as the shaft of the tool that isn't long enough; bolt cutters or a hacksaw; and some JB Weld. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jan 5 21:08:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 II available in Ottawa Message-ID: Here's a nice Xerox 820 II system available in Ottawa, Canada. Please reply to original sender. Reply-to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:24:40 -0800 From: Friedrich Buch Subject: Vintage Computer Hi! I have a still-functioning Xerox 820 II with a double, external 5.25" disk drive. I bought it in 1982, retired it a long time ago, but it is still in good condition. I also have a Xerox 620 daisywheel printer to go with it. Paid approx. $15,000 at the time. I just cannot get myself to throw it away. I would be glad to get it a new home. It still has CPM as operating software. If interested, contact: Friedrich Buch buch@sympatico.ca or friedrich.buch@pc.gc.ca Tel: (613) 234-5885 (Ottawa, Canada) Claim everything, concede nothing; and, if defeated, allege fraud. Machiavelli, The Prince -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sun Jan 5 21:10:00 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: Busted Mac In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My trick for making a Mac opening tool: Take a BIC disposable pen, and remove the ink and the black end piece, leaving an empty tube. Shove a hex shaped pencil in one end, and a T-15 driver bit in the other. This creates a crude, but very functional Mac opener. This works best if you use a new pencil, and only partially sharpen the end to make it easier to wedge into the pen barrel. It's actually pretty easy to use. There are five screws in the back of the case. The two you need the long screwdriver for are way down in the handle. There are also two near the bottom, above the ports, and one hiding behind the battery cover. And here is a page describing the sad mac error codes. http://www.mac512.com/sadmac.htm It looks like your problem is a bad RAM chip. My 128k had a bad RAM chip too. I unsoldered the old chip, replaced it with a socket and stuck in another from my junk box. I think (but I don't remember for sure) that it came from a junked XT motherboard. (Either that or a broken TRS-80 Color Computer). Good luck! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 09:25 PM, William Donzelli wrote: > I do not normally fix old micros, but I thought I would give this a > try. > > It is an original 128K Mac, with lots of extra goodies. On power-up, I > get a sick beep, a dead Mac icon, various pixels on the screen flicker > after the screen test, and the code "048298". Not quite dead, but > pretty > close. > > What does this code mean? > > Also, can someone repost that trick for making a tool to get the case > open? > > Thanks! > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Jan 5 21:10:05 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: ./ does the Reuters article... :( In-Reply-To: <1041818712.2488.9.camel@supermicro> References: <200301060156.UAA29778@wordstock.com> <1041818712.2488.9.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Jeffrey H. Ingber wrote: > This is SOP for Slashdot. If you think the news snippet is a slam, wait > until you read the feedback. You will not find a single positive, > constructive comment. It seems to me this has more to do with the moderators than the posters. I actually did find some positive and constructive comments, but I had to dig for them. I'd imagine that Slashdot in general is mostly going to be read by folks with little or no interest in older technology (newer is *always* better right??), so I'm not at all surprised by the overall feedback. It could also be that some posters don't want to risk being embarrassed in public by talking about their favorite old computer ;) Yet another likely reason for the lack of supportive comments is that many of the potential posters (and moderators) are not very familiar with the systems that are frequently discussed on classiccmp. Heck, one poster seems to think that magnetic core memory isn't going to function due to its age. -Toth From jcwren at jcwren.com Sun Jan 5 21:31:01 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: ./ does the Reuters article... :( In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <04c401c2b534$7bdc57c0$020010ac@k4jcw> Actually, SlashDot is populated by a humongous number of people, many whom are intelligent, educated, and erudite. These, however, are not the typical *posters*. SlashDot attracts an active troll population because of the exposure. I typically read at +5, maybe dropping down to +4 if there aren't many replys, or +3 if I have moderator points (which I rarely use). Judging SlashDot purely by the posts is like judging all of humanity by the Jerry Springer audience. --jcwren > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Tothwolf > Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 22:21 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: ./ does the Reuters article... :( > > > On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Jeffrey H. Ingber wrote: > > > This is SOP for Slashdot. If you think the news snippet is > a slam, wait > > until you read the feedback. You will not find a single positive, > > constructive comment. > > It seems to me this has more to do with the moderators than > the posters. I > actually did find some positive and constructive comments, > but I had to > dig for them. > > I'd imagine that Slashdot in general is mostly going to be > read by folks > with little or no interest in older technology (newer is > *always* better > right??), so I'm not at all surprised by the overall > feedback. It could > also be that some posters don't want to risk being > embarrassed in public > by talking about their favorite old computer ;) > > Yet another likely reason for the lack of supportive comments > is that many > of the potential posters (and moderators) are not very > familiar with the > systems that are frequently discussed on classiccmp. Heck, one poster > seems to think that magnetic core memory isn't going to > function due to > its age. > > -Toth > From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jan 5 21:39:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: Collectors in Hong Kong? Message-ID: I've been contacted by someone at CNN International and they want to do a story on someone that collects old computers in Hong Kong. Does anyone have any computer collecting contacts there by any chance? VCF Hong Kong has a nice ring to it ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From marvin at rain.org Sun Jan 5 21:43:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: Collectors in Hong Kong? References: Message-ID: <3E18FC08.708ECC83@rain.org> There is a person in Hong Kong who bid on the IBM5100. It should be easy to look up the auction and email that person through ebay. Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > I've been contacted by someone at CNN International and they want to do a > story on someone that collects old computers in Hong Kong. > > Does anyone have any computer collecting contacts there by any chance? > > VCF Hong Kong has a nice ring to it ;) > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Jan 5 22:02:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: Collecting prototypes (was: ./ does the Reuters article... :( ) In-Reply-To: <200301060156.UAA29778@wordstock.com> References: <200301060156.UAA29778@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <20030106043124.GL36939@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Bryan Pope, from writings of Sun, Jan 05, 2003 at 08:56:57PM -0500: > Slashdot *finally* ran something about the Reuters article at > http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=technologyNews&storyID=1991627 > but they feel the need to slam the classiccmp site in the same breath :(! :-( One thing that I saw in the /. messages mentioned prototypes. I never thought of prototypes as being particularly valuable, like the wire-wrapped prototype of the PERQ-3B 8MB memory board that I have. It's probably not worth much, as few people know what a PERQ is; however, I don't care what it is or isn't worth, as it's just interesting and may have some possible future use, even if I have to modify it (ok, I said the 'm' word, but shouldn't things be used whenever possible?) to make it work with something that isn't a PERQ-3B. -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From donm at cts.com Sun Jan 5 22:33:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: Acetone container swelling; safe to keep? (was: Looking 4...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, John Lawson wrote: > > > On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > > Speaking of Acetone, I noticed that an old metal container of it that > > > I have keeps swelling up and creasing the metal a bit after it's > > > reclosed, and vapors hiss out of it when it's opened. The container > > > is slightly rusty, and probably only about six or seven years old. Is > > > this anything to be concerned about? > > > > Never eat or drink anything from a container that has started to swell or > > bulge at the seams. > > > > > Oh, just great!! You mean that all this Trichloretehylene that I've > been so carefully aging is now useless? And I was saving it for my > birthday party.... > > > damn. All is not lost. You can always use it to degrease the table top after the festivities! - don > John > From msell at ontimesupport.com Sun Jan 5 22:42:01 2003 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: New to list In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030103161400.02ca8008@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030105223724.030747e0@127.0.0.1> Brian, Not now. I've worked on various equipment used to maintain RADAR sets, that's where my curiosity lies. It's one of many things that really perks my interest. I have to be cautious about what stuff I fire up, since I live under one of the approaches to IAH Houston. The FAA doesn't take very kindly to spurious emissions that affect trivial things like aircraft navigation and communication. : ) It's interesting to compare military and commercial electronics design. I have a few Korean-vintage radio sets, and they are very well made and designed. It's quite an education to see what was accomplished over 50 years ago using a few vacuum tubes, capacitors, and inductors. My Mom tells me stories about the old NCR mainframe she used to run when she was in the Air Force during the sixties. Very fascinating..... - Matt At 06:18 PM 1/5/2003 -0800, you wrote: >On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Matthew Sell wrote: > > > (anybody collect RADAR equipment here?) > >Hey... do /you/ collect RADAR equipment? I don't, but I've an >acquaintence who has an interest in it. > >-brian. Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030105/891db78f/attachment.html From 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com Sun Jan 5 22:54:01 2003 From: 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com (No Junk Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 (PSU's Polarity and Amps needed) Message-ID: <28979-79969@sneakemail.com> Hi all, I've just been skimming the archives and while I've spotted a couple of Amstrad PPC640 threads, one of which confirms that you can use a normal 12V power supply, none of them indicate the amps needed nor the polarity. I found one of these units at a swapmeet a month or so ago but it was sans power supply. I'm hoping to get it up and running within a couple of weeks for a demo in an introductory computing class. TIA, Chris J. -------------------------------------- Protect yourself from spam, use http://sneakemail.com From ipscone at msdsite.com Sun Jan 5 23:22:00 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: KayPro Daisywheel Printer Ribbon - Juki 6100 In-Reply-To: <28979-79969@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <3E18A17A.22787.590502F@localhost> Anyone know what type of ribbon the KayPro Letter Quality printer (daisywheel; Juki 6100) uses? I have one without a ribbon or even a used ribbon cassette for comparrison. Is there a ribbon that is currently made that works with this printer? If so, where can it be obtained? Thanks, From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sun Jan 5 23:33:01 2003 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: Busted Mac In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think I got the driver I used for this from Sears. A mac 128 is small enough you could carry it with you and make sure the driver in question is long enough. Mind the board on the back of the video tube. If you bump it even a little you'll break the seal off the video tube - you'll know if this happens if you get a depressing hiss whilst rummaging in the innards of the beast. I did this to my se30, although it proved to be a blessing in disguise. In scrounging up a mac shop that could fix it, I found my local mac dealer (ie not CompUSA) and have done a lot of business with them. Although they still give me grief when I bring the se30 in for its occasional upgrade (new disk, max out the ram, now idly seeking an FPU for it. :) On Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 07:25 PM, William Donzelli wrote: > I do not normally fix old micros, but I thought I would give this a > try. > > It is an original 128K Mac, with lots of extra goodies. On power-up, I > get a sick beep, a dead Mac icon, various pixels on the screen flicker > after the screen test, and the code "048298". Not quite dead, but > pretty > close. > > What does this code mean? > > Also, can someone repost that trick for making a tool to get the case > open? > > Thanks! > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------- MacOS X Powered! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------- From sunderwo at knox.edu Sun Jan 5 23:37:00 2003 From: sunderwo at knox.edu (Bastian) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: NEXTSTEP 3.3 availability? Message-ID: <3E1923C1.5090001@knox.edu> I have been working on getting a NeXT slab that came into my possession into working order since last summer, but have been unable to find a copy of NEXTSTEP to get installed on the system other than the copies Black Hole sells. Black Hole isn't an option for me - I don't think I'll have a spare US$300 laying around for at least a few more years. So does anyone know of a place where I could find a copy of the operating system? Original CD's would be nice, but I would be happy with ISO's, too. Thanks -Bastian --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sun Jan 5 23:40:01 2003 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: KayPro Daisywheel Printer Ribbon - Juki 6100 In-Reply-To: <3E18A17A.22787.590502F@localhost> Message-ID: try here: http://simcoe-imaging.com/Ribbons/JUKI.htm They seem to think they have them in stock. On Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 10:19 PM, Mike Davis wrote: > Anyone know what type of ribbon the KayPro Letter Quality printer > (daisywheel; Juki 6100) uses? I have one without a ribbon or even a > used ribbon cassette for comparrison. > > Is there a ribbon that is currently made that works with this > printer? If so, where can it be obtained? > > Thanks, > > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------- MacOS X Powered! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------- From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sun Jan 5 23:41:01 2003 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: OT Problems loading Linux In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030105154340.00b2dc10@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: Might also check and make sure the write protect jumper isn't set on the drive, then yeah, blow away the existing partition table and set up your own. On Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 01:44 PM, Charles E. Fox wrote: > >> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 06:57:39 -0500 >> To: cctakl@classiccmp.org >> From: "Charles E. Fox" >> Subject: OT Problems loading Linux >> >> Does anyone have any suggestions on how I should prepare an old (6 >> gig) hard drive to receive Linux? The installation program keeps >> telling me that the partitions are full. >> >> Thanks >> >> Charlie Fox >> >> Charles E. Fox Video Production >> 793 Argyle Rd. >> Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 >> 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net >> Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" >> at http://chasfoxvideo.com > > > Charles E. Fox Video Production > 793 Argyle Rd. > Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 > 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net > Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" > at http://chasfoxvideo.com > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------- MacOS X Powered! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------- From red at bears.org Mon Jan 6 00:07:00 2003 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: Busted Mac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Jim Strickland wrote: > have done a lot of business with them. Although they still give me > grief when I bring the se30 in for its occasional upgrade (new disk, > max out the ram, now idly seeking an FPU for it. :) Then you might be pleased to learn it already has one. The SE/30 shipped with a 16 MHz MC68881 as standard. ok r. From jim at calico.litterbox.com Mon Jan 6 00:54:01 2003 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: Busted Mac In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1046DF87-2144-11D7-8EE4-000502512D39@calico.litterbox.com> Really? Cool. So I guess I'm out of luck getting quicktime 4 to work with it then, I was assuming it didn't work for lack of an FPU. :) On Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 11:10 PM, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Jim Strickland wrote: > >> have done a lot of business with them. Although they still give me >> grief when I bring the se30 in for its occasional upgrade (new disk, >> max out the ram, now idly seeking an FPU for it. :) > > Then you might be pleased to learn it already has one. The SE/30 > shipped > with a 16 MHz MC68881 as standard. > > ok > r. > > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------- MacOS X Powered! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------- From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 6 01:39:09 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: Need Apple Super Serial Card manual online(?) Message-ID: I've Googled a bit but can't seem to find it. Maybe it's out there, maybe not. Maybe you know where? I'm trying to find an online copy of the Apple Super Serial Card manual. I have a physical copy but it's lost in some box somewhere that I haven't turned up yet :( If you know where a copy might be online, could you please let me know? Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From nashbucket at iname.com Mon Jan 6 01:47:00 2003 From: nashbucket at iname.com (robert erianne) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: Loch NeXT Monster Message-ID: <20030104211106.87222.qmail@iname.com> Battery replacement instructions for NeXTCube and Dimension are provided in the User's Reference. But I own a NeXTstation N1100 equipped with a decade-old battery and whose screen went dark during use. Powering down and rebooting were normal, except for the dark screen. According to the User's Reference, the screen problem suggests a weak battery, whose replacement must be performed by a dealer, in spite of the ease of access. I replaced the battery and hoped for the best, but now the system doesn't boot past the flashing of the keyboard lights. Obviously, the battery-maintained parameter settings in the PRAM have been lost. Since Mac people developed the NeXTstation, I think I need to zap the PRAM by holding down a key combo during bootup. But I may also need to reinstall the system software, which I don't have. If you can assist my recovery with instructions, a service manual, and/or a NeXTSTEP 3.0 CDROM, please contact 'Buck' at nashbucket@iname.com. -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup Meet Singles http://corp.mail.com/lavalife From mhstein at canada.com Mon Jan 6 01:47:11 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: Apologies from the flake Message-ID: <01C2B40C.16EF8B80@mse-d03> My apologies to everyone who's waiting to hear from me about stuff I've offered on the list (Philip, Ernest, Rich, Don, Jeff, Sellam, Cameron, and any others I haven't thought of yet). I've been going through some difficulties, one aspect of which is losing most of my memory (and let me tell ya, that's WEIRD), but I do have all of it stored in the computer and hope to go through it real soon now. However, if those of you who haven't given up on me completely could send me a quick note reminding me of what we talked about, it would help a lot. Once again, my apologies, and a new year full of exciting finds to you all! mike From archivesoftware at celebritydirect.net Mon Jan 6 01:47:17 2003 From: archivesoftware at celebritydirect.net (Cord G. Coslor - Archive Software) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: need some help.... Message-ID: <006601c2b47b$f377ffa0$235986d1@earthlink.net> Hello ~ I was a long-time member of this list, and am a long time collector of classic computers. I've been away from most internet forums and collecting computers in general for several years, but am finally getting back into it. Want to say hello to those that I used to gather so much information from... and hello to the many new acquaintances I look forward to visiting with. Today I was in a "flea market" browsing a pretty good collection of classic game consoles and coimputers, and discovered something I had never seen before. It was a cream-colored unit, with an integrated keyboard and monitor. Size could be considered small.... probably half the size of a TRS-80 model 4... or smaller. No disk drives were present. I believe it was called a Scoutset ??? I also think it was made by Temat and had a model # of HE 415-B . I could be wrong on all of that information, however... but it was something similar. I have a sneaking suspicion this is some type of early word processor, but am unsure. Has anyone seen this before, or have any information on it? Would it be worth picking up? Thank you! Sincerely, CORD G. COSLOR ----- | Celebrity Direct Entertainment | PO Box 494314 * Port Charlotte, FL 33949 | (941) 625-1649 | www.CelebrityDirect.net * CDE@CelebrityDirect.net get paid to read e-mail! click here => http://www.sendmoreinfo.com/id/2329372 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030106/d52b5afd/attachment.html From scair at charter.net Mon Jan 6 01:47:22 2003 From: scair at charter.net (John Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: Selling an old IBM AS400/9404 Message-ID: <003601c2b540$42773c00$6601a8c0@boyhowdy> I'm selling an '89 IBM AS400/9404 and I'm trying to find out the appropriate price. Here are the specs. Anyone able to help me out? IBM AS400/9404 S/N 10-03a9a PTF Level: C4060230 Software Liscence Type: EUL OS release level: V2R3 Includes IBM RPG/400 software Tape Drive is a QIC1000 (includes 1 tape, blank as far as I know) 2 hard drive bays with 2 drives in each bay 1 10BaseT Ethernet adaper with manual Several misc plugins Add-on cards: (in the back) Amount Base number Part Number EC 1 2700 1 2615 1 2641 2 6152 1 6050 56F0392 899322 1 2623 1 2609 2 2641 1 2617 56F0392 899322 2 3122 56F0392 899322/second one is D48180 1 2587 56F0392 899322 It seems to boot up fine, although I don't have a monitor adapter for it so I can't say for sure. Reply via this list or to scair@charter.net (email preferred) Thanks! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030106/df9c1344/attachment.html From dwright6 at twcny.rr.com Mon Jan 6 01:47:27 2003 From: dwright6 at twcny.rr.com (Donald Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:04 2005 Subject: Compaq SLT/286 Message-ID: <001001c2b4d3$30e972e0$bc213b18@twcny.rr.com> Mr.Hall I don't anything in tha way of documentation.......but i have navigated tha system quite a bit..........i have installed ms-dos 6.22 and games made for dos and early windows versions..........ask me question.....mebbe i've been down that road already? ;) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030106/799a250e/attachment.html From wroberts at wi.rr.com Mon Jan 6 01:47:33 2003 From: wroberts at wi.rr.com (William Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10 / AT Message-ID: <3E1886E9.DB6B6F6C@wi.rr.com> Valdocs was a office suite, word processing, spreadsheet and database group unique to the Epson QX-10 and QX-16 computers. It also ran CPM. and add in board was available that allowed Dos to also be run on the machine. Machine had two voice coil floppydrives that could be configred to many of the early floppy format modes of other computers. I have several including original instruction manuals and many programs for both CPM and early DOS. The computer did not have a hard drive (although an addon was available) and was limited to 360 5 1/4 disks. Is anyone interested? Bill -- William F. Roberts 35081 West Fairview Road Oconomowoc, WI, 53066 wroberts@wi.rr.com From alainblanc at free.fr Mon Jan 6 01:47:38 2003 From: alainblanc at free.fr (Alain BLANC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: OT Problems loading Linux In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030105154340.00b2dc10@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: Try to use FDISK (MS-DOS) or PQMAGIC or simply the linux toll to erase all the parts on the disk ! Alan -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Charles E. Fox" Subject: Fwd: OT Problems loading Linux Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:44:19 +0100 Size: 2458 Url: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030106/cac5815d/attachment.mht From ludedude25 at juno.com Mon Jan 6 01:47:44 2003 From: ludedude25 at juno.com (Chad C Current) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <20030105.201039.1696.0.ludedude25@juno.com> Was this your post? http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2002-July/003413.html For Sale or Trade Commodore C-64 computers, 1571 drives, and 1701 (I think) color monitors. If so how much did you want for these items above? or what were you looking for , for a trade? From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jan 6 01:59:07 2003 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: What am I missing here? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1A94192D-214D-11D7-AAAF-000393970B96@neurotica.com> I certainly don't think it's worth $1K, but Model Is are getting pretty hard to find in decent condition, at least around here. -Dave On Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 07:13 PM, Daniel Hicks wrote: > People have more money than sense?? I don't know. It's interesting > though. > > Dan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Erik S. Klein" > To: > Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 6:52 PM > Subject: What am I missing here? > > >> Maybe I misread and saw an extra zero, but this looks crazy to me: >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ >> eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=2085217 >> 285 >> >> What's so special about this machine? >> >> Note: I have absolutely no affiliation with this auction (although I >> wish I was the seller). >> >> Erik >> > > -- Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 6 02:01:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: KayPro Daisywheel Printer Ribbon - Juki 6100 In-Reply-To: "Mike Davis" "KayPro Daisywheel Printer Ribbon - Juki 6100" (Jan 5, 21:19) References: <3E18A17A.22787.590502F@localhost> Message-ID: <10301060803.ZM24917@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 5, 21:19, Mike Davis wrote: > Anyone know what type of ribbon the KayPro Letter Quality printer > (daisywheel; Juki 6100) uses? I have one without a ribbon or even a > used ribbon cassette for comparrison. > > Is there a ribbon that is currently made that works with this > printer? If so, where can it be obtained? I don't know if you can still get them -- I expect you can -- but I can tell you that the ribbon for a Juki 6100 is an IBM 82 compatible multistrike or single-strike ribbon cassette, same as is used on an IBM Selectric II. I used to use multistrike carbon, but you could also get multistrike fabric and single-strike carbon. Fabric, however, tends to clog the character petals after a while. I no longer have a 6100 nor the user manual but I do have the technical service manual. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Jan 6 03:23:01 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: 11/03 system on eBay sold Message-ID: Are y'all ready for *this*?? Somebody bought that fairly bare-bones 11/03 with no HD, a DSD dual RX02 clone, and some kind of I/O board (maybe ADC/DAC??) and a ratty old VT100 w/no keyboard for... $449.44 whew. Ain't Capitalism grand? Wonder what a pristine 11/23 would go for... down payment on a bobtail with a liftgate, maybe??? Cheerz John From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jan 6 03:28:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: Busted Mac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I think I got the driver I used for this from Sears. A mac 128 is >small enough you could carry it with you and make sure the driver in >question is long enough. Mind the board on the back of the video tube. That's where I got my Torx wrench. The other tool I use is a clamp like is used in Welding (I think normally to put up protective tarps and the like). I can fit the end that clamps together into the crack in the case, and squeeze the handles to pry it apart. Not a very good description, but if you can figure out what I'm talking about, it works great. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jan 6 03:36:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: ./ does the Reuters article... :( In-Reply-To: <04c401c2b534$7bdc57c0$020010ac@k4jcw> References: Message-ID: > Actually, SlashDot is populated by a humongous number of people, >many whom >are intelligent, educated, and erudite. These, however, are not the typical >*posters*. SlashDot attracts an active troll population because of the >exposure. I typically read at +5, maybe dropping down to +4 if there aren't >many replys, or +3 if I have moderator points (which I rarely use). > > Judging SlashDot purely by the posts is like judging all of >humanity by the >Jerry Springer audience. > > --jcwren Excellent point, I look at the front page to find interesting articles. I quit reading the posts ages ago, it just got to depressing. /. does a good job of giving the impression that Linux people are a bunch of raving lunatics. I read the Reuter's article earlier today (well actually Sunday :^) What really got me was the comment about the IBM PC having basically no value from a collectors standpoint. I don't know who the person was the wrote the article, but I don't think they get it. There is nothing at all interesting about an IBM PC. If you've seen one, you've seen them all. It doesn't really matter to me if it was made 20+ years ago, or today. Of course from the standpoint of actually using it, I'd obviously prefer something modern and not the 20+ year old one :^) Me, I like both interesting hardware and interesting OS's, but I'm mainly in it for the OS's. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From sjaak at freebsd.nl Mon Jan 6 04:16:00 2003 From: sjaak at freebsd.nl (Sjaak Jobses) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: http://hardware.localhost.nl Message-ID: <20030106101910.GB2270@maiden.localhost.nl> Hi!, The site, http://hardware.localhost.nl contains pictures of computing and networking hardware. We've also got a small collection of all kinds of old hardware. As most of you are probally the owners of old, exotic and cool hardware, a contribution would be greatly appreciated by sending in your pictures! Anyway, drop by and have a look. ;) Greetings, -- +-------- - -- - | Sjaak Jobses | | Free hot hardware pr0n - http://hardware.localhost.nl +---- - --- -- -- - PS. I'm also looking for people willing to set up a mirror in the US. From dzubint at vcn.bc.ca Mon Jan 6 05:03:00 2003 From: dzubint at vcn.bc.ca (Thomas Dzubin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: ADMIN: Coming Updates, Question (classiccmp) Message-ID: On Mon Jan 6 01:34:10 2003, Jeffrey Sharp cctech@classiccmp.org wrote: > By the way, we now have exactly 720 subscribers. > > I would also like to hear (private email please) from subscribers with > comments for or against the current two-list system. Defense of the ... Please remember that there might also be people like myself... "lurkers" who do not subscribe to the list, but instead use the www.classiccmp.org website archives of the mailing list to actually read the stuff going on. In response to your question, I personally like the two list system. In your re-design of the website, please be aware that possibly *some* people may be using alternative browsers (ie: *NOT* MS-Internet Explorer) to access the site, so keeping the browser-specific features to a minimum would be really nice. (I personally use lynx (text browser) quite a bit from my VT320 terminal!) Thomas Dzubin From cbajpai at attbi.com Mon Jan 6 06:30:01 2003 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: More Ebay Insanity - TRS-80 for $1000! Message-ID: <000e01c2b57f$a5e7c860$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> OK.I'll be the first one to stay I don't understand Ebay. Case in question: 2 TRS-80 Model I, Expansion Interface + Disk drive Very similar machines.but look at the price difference: >$700 (with 5 hours left) VINTAGE TRS-80 MODEL 1 SYS w/ 2 DISK DRIVES Current Bid - $255 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &category=4193&item=2084917980&rd=1 1ST TRS-80 MODEL 1 COMPLETE DRIVE EXPANSION + Current Bid: $1000 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &category=4193&item=2085217285&rd=1 Why the insanity? Because the auction title says 'First'???? Here's one that's almost as good: TRS-80 Model I Keyboard/CPU only - closed at $232 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &item=2084247042 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030106/a28ff484/attachment.html From fm.arnold at gmx.net Mon Jan 6 06:31:18 2003 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: substitute for TI TIL306/307 Display? Message-ID: >From: Joe >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: substitute for TI TIL306/307 Display? >Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 17:00:23 > > The 306/307s also have built in BCD decoders. I've been trying to find >a data sheet on the 311 so that I can see what the difference is between it >and the 306/307. > > >http://www-s.ti.com/sc/ds/til306.pdf >http://www-s.ti.com/sc/ds/til308.pdf >http://www-s.ti.com/sc/ds/til311.pdf Hi, TIL306/7 is a decadecounter, latch, dekoder+driver and led-bar display, and has a puls-input to the counter. TIl308/9 is a latch, dekoder+driver and led-bar display, and has BCD-inputs for data to be displayed. 306 and 308 are identical in its display-dimensions and aparance, the function differs however. To use a TIL 308 as a replacement for a 306 you will need to add externalley somewhere a 7490 decade-counter between the original circuit and the TIL308. I have a few TIL308 available, if this rework is feasable to you. TIl310/1 is a latch, dekoder+driver and led-pixel display, and has BCD-inputs for data to be displayed. Thisone also needs an external 7490 counter in your usage, on top of that, the display has a different appearance. Someone else could have those for you. So, choose the alternative that best suits you, I would continue to search for the original TIL306, or change the whole display to something else althogether. HTH Frank Arnold From thompson at new.rr.com Mon Jan 6 07:13:00 2003 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: Selling an old IBM AS400/9404 In-Reply-To: <003601c2b540$42773c00$6601a8c0@boyhowdy> Message-ID: The old CISC AS/400's do not retain a lot of value due to their relative lack of speed, ram and disk capacity, and general proprietary wierdness. I had a similar but not as nice 9404 E0? and 9402 d02 for free. I believe that version of the OS might have some Y2k issues. The RISC models are another story. I hate to say it but you might have better luck selling the more desirable features like the ethernet if you're intent on selling it and no one will pick up the whole box. On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, John Mark wrote: > I'm selling an '89 IBM AS400/9404 and I'm trying to find out the > appropriate price. Here are the specs. Anyone able to help me out? > > IBM AS400/9404 > S/N 10-03a9a > PTF Level: C4060230 > Software Liscence Type: EUL > OS release level: V2R3 > Includes IBM RPG/400 software > Tape Drive is a QIC1000 (includes 1 tape, blank as far as I know) > 2 hard drive bays with 2 drives in each bay > 1 10BaseT Ethernet adaper with manual > Several misc plugins > From jss at subatomix.com Mon Jan 6 07:29:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: ./ does the Reuters article... :( In-Reply-To: <04c401c2b534$7bdc57c0$020010ac@k4jcw> References: <04c401c2b534$7bdc57c0$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <1921136984.20030106073206@subatomix.com> On Sunday, January 5, 2003, J.C.Wren wrote: > Judging SlashDot purely by the posts is like judging all of humanity by > the Jerry Springer audience. Well, at least it's helping membership. We're at 804 as of this morning. That's 622 in cctalk and 182 in cctech, mind you. And contrary to popular belief, cctech is **not** a truly separate list. They get exactly the same posts that cctalk subscribers get, minus anything that is off-topic. -- Jeffrey Sharp From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 6 08:06:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: Macintosh LC III needs home Message-ID: Reply-to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 05:23:47 EST From: Shinobi3673@aol.com To: donate@vintage.org Subject: Macintosh LC III I have a Macintosh LC III & image writer II printer would this be of interest to your organisation? if not can you make a suggestion besides throw away? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Jan 6 08:31:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: http://hardware.localhost.nl In-Reply-To: <20030106101910.GB2270@maiden.localhost.nl> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Sjaak Jobses wrote: > Hi!, > > The site, http://hardware.localhost.nl contains > pictures of computing and networking hardware. > We've also got a small collection of all kinds > of old hardware. > > As most of you are probally the owners of old, > exotic and cool hardware, a contribution would be > greatly appreciated by sending in your pictures! > > Anyway, drop by and have a look. ;) Well, I'm browsing through it, and at least the SGI and networking categories look good, but your PDP-11 category could use some work... Why is there a picture of some PC (or something) with a debian logo as picture #1, for instance? Looks like a good start, but if I were you, I would focus more on the quality and descriptions to go with the pictures than the sheer quantity of pictures. Just my $0.02 Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From fm.arnold at gmx.net Mon Jan 6 08:51:20 2003 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: DEC 11/03 on eBay Message-ID: >>John Lawson wrote: > >> An interesting 11/03 system, has twin DSD 8" drives, and some kind of >> DSD data acquisition card (A/D D/A???) dunno can't see enough detail in >> the pics. >> Seller seems to be rather.... well, 'scattered'.... ;} >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2084606280&category=4193 >> Cheers >> John > >Jerome Fine replies: > >Seller also seems to has used an out-of-focus set of shots to blur >any damage. > >At the current price of $ US 9.99, that would seem to be about >the limit as far as value is concerned. I would not have him power >things on - too much risk. > Well, today we learned that the value is US $449,44. Most amazing. I realley wonder, which components make up this value, especialley since this seems to be more or less untested, lacking the CPU-frontbezel and the cables. My guess was this would raise between 100 and 150. How wrong I was... Oh by the way, I'm still looking for a VT132, anyone who likes to get rid of such one? Frank Arnold From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Jan 6 09:00:01 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: Looking 4... Message-ID: IIRC, Testors plastic solvent cement (available at most hobby shops) is mainly MEK. Testors makes several "flavors" of solvent cement, so just check the label to make sure. -----Original Message----- From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net] Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 3:30 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Looking 4... MEK = Methyl Ethyl Ketone (C4H8O)? Is it actually obtainable for most folks? I thought it was regulated since it is so toxic and dangerous? Personally, I think I'd take safety precautions while working with the stuff... -Toth From n4fs at monmouth.com Mon Jan 6 09:08:01 2003 From: n4fs at monmouth.com (Mike Feher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: More Ebay Insanity - TRS-80 for $1000! References: <000e01c2b57f$a5e7c860$177ba8c0@ne2.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <006d01c2b595$b5ca8c20$0200a8c0@n4fs> Notice that "rainwatch" was the successful winner on all 3 of the mentioned TRS items. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell NJ, 07731 (732) 901-9193 ----- Original Message ----- From: Chandra Bajpai To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 7:32 AM Subject: More Ebay Insanity - TRS-80 for $1000! OK.I'll be the first one to stay I don't understand Ebay. Case in question: 2 TRS-80 Model I, Expansion Interface + Disk drive Very similar machines.but look at the price difference: >$700 (with 5 hours left) VINTAGE TRS-80 MODEL 1 SYS w/ 2 DISK DRIVES Current Bid - $255 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=2084917980&rd=1 1ST TRS-80 MODEL 1 COMPLETE DRIVE EXPANSION + Current Bid: $1000 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=2085217285&rd=1 Why the insanity? Because the auction title says 'First'???? Here's one that's almost as good: TRS-80 Model I Keyboard/CPU only - closed at $232 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2084247042 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030106/1a48d798/attachment.html From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jan 6 09:13:04 2003 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: DEC 11/03 on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Monday, January 6, 2003, at 09:54 AM, Frank Arnold wrote: >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ >>> eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2084606280&category=4193 >> >> ... > > Well, today we learned that the value is US $449,44. Most amazing. > > I realley wonder, which components make up this value, especialley > since this > seems to be more or less untested, lacking the CPU-frontbezel and the > cables. > > My guess was this would raise between 100 and 150. How wrong I was... Well I knew those DSD disk subsystems were nice and highly sought-after, but damn...I had NO idea. I've got maybe five systems of a similar configuration to that one. I'm tempted to put one or two of 'em up on eBay now. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Jan 6 09:35:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: What am I missing here? Message-ID: Just click on the "Bid History" link to the right og the number of bids. You will see (with some interpretation) that the winner put in a bid of $1000 on 01/02, when the current high was $150. There were then six other bids that ran the total up to the $1,000 limit. The last bid was also $1000, but the winner's $1000 took precedence, since it was earlier. -----Original Message----- From: J.C.Wren [mailto:jcwren@jcwren.com] Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 6:54 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: What am I missing here? I don't know how this would work, because when you place a bid on eBay, it will only show the amount necessary to beat a previous bid. Which means if this guy is running in $10 increments, someone had $990 on it. From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jan 6 09:41:06 2003 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: TRS-80 fever on ebay?! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9F9E4356-218D-11D7-AAAF-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Monday, January 6, 2003, at 10:08 AM, Rob Ross wrote: > Any reason why this system sold for $1000? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2085217285 > > Note it's a Model I level 2, not level 1, even though the description > deceptively states it's including a manual for a Level 1 Basic user's > manual. > > The same bidder has spent way too much on several other TRS-80 auctions > recently. > > Anyone have a clue what's the deal? My guess is someone who loved TRS-80 hardware years ago just made it big and got a very fat wallet recently. When I became "comfortable" (not rich, but very comfortable) about five years ago after the IPO of Digex, I spent about the next year buying every VAX and PDP-11 I could get my hands on. I've seen several people do very much the same thing, and for this guy, the pattern is definitely there. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 6 10:44:00 2003 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: PDP9 Control Store on eBay Message-ID: >a few 6502 books, and some interesting Intecolor graphics terminals: Does this mean I should feel bad/dumb for having thrown like 8 or so of them in the dumpster a year or two ago? Will J _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM: Try the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 6 10:48:00 2003 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: TRS-80 fever on ebay?! Message-ID: I think if I ever somehow had a drastic increase in cash flow, I would likely buy nearly every pre-1980 or so mopar I could get my hands on, especially 67-69 barracudas.. I dunno, 2 1967s just isn't enough... Of course, I would immediately be shot by my parents but yeah.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Jan 6 10:55:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: Power consumption (was: Re: Acetone container swelling; safe to keep? (was: Looking 4...)) In-Reply-To: <24106.194.109.71.65.1041794460.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl>; from quapla@xs4all.nl on Sun, Jan 05, 2003 at 20:21:00 CET References: <002d01c2b3cc$f2ff19a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <003901c2b3d8$e41e6420$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <10301041140.ZM23596@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <00b301c2b3ed$db1c9620$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <10301042323.ZM23879@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20030105150801.GG36939@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <20887.194.109.71.65.1041777928.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> <01b501c2b4d6$b9cc2500$7d00a8c0@george> <24106.194.109.71.65.1041794460.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20030106175429.M48831@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.01.05 20:21 quapla@xs4all.nl wrote: > Well, an Ultra-Sparc III at 1050MHz may consume about 200 Watts or > more.... The CPU only or the complete system? > Usually I let my 11/70 run for about an hour, then my hobby room is > warm enough to work in. Once again time to point to the "Top 10 Signs why You are a VAX Geek." http://world.std.com/~bdc/projects/vaxen/vaxgeektop10.html Cite: 7. Your electricity bill is more than your monthly rent payment. 5. You don't have an SO, but it's okay because your computer keeps you warm at night. 2. Your house is pleasantly warm in the dead of winter, even with the air conditioning turned all the way up. > > concerned if it was beside an Alpha-- my DEC 3000-800 will heat our > > basement noticably! I measured the power consumption of my Alpha DEC 3000-600: 230 W. Even my newish 500 MHz Alpha and the Indigo2 (on topic since 1.1. ;-) ) are only at about 140..150 W. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From ronbain at ix.netcom.com Mon Jan 6 10:57:09 2003 From: ronbain at ix.netcom.com (Ron Bain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: apple llc computer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002701c2b5a5$04597cc0$714bfea9@oemcomputer> Did you get any offers. The reason I ask is that I have two Apple II+ computers I want to sell along with drives, software, etc. Ron -----Original Message----- From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Randy Enochs Sr Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 5:21 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: apple llc computer i have an APPLE llc computer with everything, monitor,printer original manuals and a bunch of programs in mint condition.i would like to sell .please let me know if there is anyone interested. _____ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030106/3380a8d3/attachment.html From Innfogra at aol.com Mon Jan 6 11:09:01 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: Re Intercolors, was pdp 9 control storage Message-ID: <185.14b7fe66.2b4b12a2@aol.com> In a message dated 1/6/03 8:49:43 AM Pacific Standard Time, xds_sigma7@hotmail.com writes: > Does this mean I should feel bad/dumb for having thrown like 8 or so of them > > in the dumpster a year or two ago? > You should have at least without pulled the cardcage. Some of those had full Z80 system cards inside the small STD bus like cardcage. I also sold a couple of the keyboards, one through ePay and the other through the list. They are hard to come by. Paxton Astoria, OR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030106/1a11ab2d/attachment.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jan 6 11:13:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: Apologies from the flake In-Reply-To: <01C2B40C.16EF8B80@mse-d03> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030106120715.0f772e7c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:12 PM 1/4/03 -0500, you wrote: >My apologies to everyone who's waiting to hear >from me about stuff I've offered on the list >(Philip, Ernest, Rich, Don, Jeff, Sellam, Cameron, >and any others I haven't thought of yet). > >I've been going through some difficulties, one >aspect of which is losing most of my memory (and >let me tell ya, that's WEIRD), but I do have >all of it stored in the computer and hope to go >through it real soon now. However, if those of >you who haven't given up on me completely could >send me a quick note reminding me of what we >talked about, it would help a lot. > >Once again, my apologies, and a new year full of >exciting finds to you all! > >mike Hi Mike, You didn't forget that $1000 that you owe me did you? :-) Joe From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Jan 6 11:32:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: Jay West??? (AND list admin info for all) References: <20030103094455.Q32801-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <013101c2b5a9$e6a0e600$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Sorry!!!! I was taking a WONDERFUL vacation for 2 weeks from work, and, well, the email didn't get checked often *G* ok, at all :) My best email address is jwest@classiccmp.org and my work address (if it's during work hours, this is the best way to get me quick) is jwest@kwcorp.com Also, I believe that since our datacenter move (started back in september) and our new web farm (also started in september) is up and running, AND because my non-compete is up I can now fully pursue my ISP/Hosting/Colocation company... I am back to classiccmp full time again :) YAY!!!! Any issues with the list or website can again be directed to me. My thanks to Jeff Sharp for doing such a WONDERFUL job in my pseudo-absence for oh, has it been almost a year? - he deserves a very big kudo from the list for taking care of things! And for helping out with the classiccmp website. Along those lines....Owen Robertson has been added as a list moderator, congrats to him! I may be looking for another person or two to help with the classiccmp list maintenance (primarily approving posts held for moderator approval), if interested, email me at jwest@classiccmp.org Finally... to all who have been emailing me... I'm plowing through 1000+ emails that came in while I was vacationing :) I will respond shortly. Cheers! Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Willing" To: Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 11:45 AM Subject: Jay West??? > > ...what's your current email address??? > > (sorry for banging the list with this, but...) > > -jim > --- > jimw@agora.rdrop.com > The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Jan 6 11:39:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: Apologies from the flake References: <01C2B40C.16EF8B80@mse-d03> Message-ID: <005301c2b5aa$dcb96300$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> M H Stein wrote: > However, if those of > you who haven't given up on me completely could > send me a quick note reminding me of what we > talked about, it would help a lot. OK, then. I emailed you in response to one of your messages on classiccmp where you were offering papertape readers and punches. I also asked you if you had any paper tape to go with them (paper tape is a bit hard to find in the UK). If you've got any punches/readers that will work either on a 1A 0-30V PSU or direct from 230V 50Hz AC mains, that would be great. I'd need some idea of how heavy they are, a rough idea of the shipping (post and packaging) costs and what sort of I/O interface they use, though. Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jan 6 11:52:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: New to list Message-ID: <200301061754.JAA13646@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Matthew Sell" > >Jimbo, > > >What type of vintage games? > >Console or (gulp) coin-operated? > >I collect coin operated vintage games - Atari and Bally/Midway. Hi I collect pins. The newer ones are computers. Most of mine are from the late 70's ti early 80's. I guess that makes them vintage compters, as well. Dwight > >Oh - and vintage compters, of course : ) > > > > - Matt > > > >At 05:55 PM 1/3/2003 -0600, you wrote: >>Hi >>I'm also new to the list. I'm actually more of a collector of Vintage >>Video Game Systems but Collector computers has always interested me. >> >>Thanks >>-Jimbo >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] >>On Behalf Of C. Murray McCullough >>Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 3:58 PM >>To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>Subject: New to list >> >>Hi >> >> new to list >> >>Murray-- > > > >Matthew Sell >Programmer >On Time Support, Inc. >www.ontimesupport.com >(281) 296-6066 > >Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! >http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. > > >"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad >"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler > >Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From classiccmp at crash.com Mon Jan 6 11:55:01 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: Looking for small NS32000 system Message-ID: <200301061757.h06HvRa22059@io.crash.com> Heinz Wolter wrote: . > I always wanted one of those systems - when I was > in school - Natsemi was pushing those Genix/unix > kits like crazy to all the undergrads My entanglement also dates from later in college, in my case well after most of the NS32k's general purpose CPU success ('89-90). I was noodling around with the notion of building something capable of running Unix and someone pointed me at the 32k as something VAX-like that could be obtained in DIP packaging (the 32008 or 32016, at least). > but they turned out to be seriously expensive and > the early 32K parts were severely buggy I can see that others have already stepped up to this one, so since I can't speak from direct experience... --S. From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Jan 6 11:56:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: ./ does the Reuters article... :( References: <200301060156.UAA29778@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <018f01c2b5ad$22d74c60$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Yes, I noticed this and contacted the original poster on slashdot. We'll see what his reply is. Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Pope" To: Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 7:56 PM Subject: ./ does the Reuters article... :( > > All, > > Slashdot *finally* ran something about the Reuters article at > http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=technologyNews&storyID=1991627 > but they feel the need to slam the classiccmp site in the same breath :(! > > Check it out at http://slashdot.org/articles/03/01/06/0040259.shtml?tid=137 > > Cheers, > > Bryan > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Jan 6 12:05:01 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: Apologies from the flake References: <01C2B40C.16EF8B80@mse-d03> <005301c2b5aa$dcb96300$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <008101c2b5ae$9aef34a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Gah! That was supposed to go offlist! -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jan 6 12:14:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: Looking 4... Message-ID: <200301061816.KAA13707@clulw009.amd.com> >From: Tothwolf > ---snip--- > >Those Lithium cells are also *very* toxic/dangerous. I think I'd be more Hi I always thought that lithium batteries main advantage was that they were not particularly toxiic and relatively safe for the environment. Exposing the insides of a lithium battery to air or water can cause a fire. Most of these batteries have used up the un-reacted lithium, that is why they're being replaced. Dwight >worried about accidentally cutting into it with a Dremel than I'd be about >MEK handled safely under proper conditions. > >-Toth > From gil at vauxelectronics.com Mon Jan 6 12:48:00 2003 From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: ADMIN: Coming Updates, Question (classiccmp) Message-ID: <3.0.32.20030106115452.008d79d0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Hi Jeffrey: Some misc thoughts on classiccmp: When I joined the list, I chose cctech, to reduce the off-topic stuff a bit. However, When I posted a question to cctech, I missed most of the answers, since the folks were replying to cctalk. That was no good, so I joined cctalk instead, and get the extra stuff anyway. The idea of two lists seems ok, but to me the cctech seems kinda worthless. Perhaps it is fine for lurkers, but who wants to miss a reply when they post? Then the daily volume of emails got high, so I elected digest mode. The digest is nice and compact, but not easy to use. It would be great if the message list had clickable links to the messages below, but then it would need to be html or pdf, I suppose. And nobody really wants html mail (me included). Or, is it possible to make the subject lines of the digest messages bold (in the messages, not the initial digest list)? Perhaps the message number too? This way it would be easier to find the message when scrolling way down in the digest. It's just not simple to read the digest. But I suppose that can't work in plain text mode either. It is also not simple to reply to a digest message (cut other stuff out, change the subject...). How about a diffent kind of digest: is it possible for the email digest to have links to the web versions of the messages? Then the digest could reduce to just a daily list of links (and it is still plain-text email, with http... links). Read the email summary, click on a link, reply from a button in the browser window... IIRC, there is currently no way to reply while viewing a message in the browser. If we could do that, plus a daily digest of links, it would be quite easy to use. FWIW, gil On Mon Jan 6 01:34:10 2003, Jeffrey Sharp cctech@classiccmp.org wrote: > By the way, we now have exactly 720 subscribers. > > I would also like to hear (private email please) from subscribers with > comments for or against the current two-list system. Defense of the ... ;----------------------------------------------------------- ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) ;----------------------------------------------------------- From dittman at dittman.net Mon Jan 6 12:50:01 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: Power consumption (was: Re: Acetone container swelling; safe to keep? (was: Looking 4...)) In-Reply-To: <20030106175429.M48831@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> from "Jochen Kunz" at Jan 06, 2003 05:54:29 PM Message-ID: <200301061851.h06IpkJr013632@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I measured the power consumption of my Alpha DEC 3000-600: 230 W. Even > my newish 500 MHz Alpha and the Indigo2 (on topic since 1.1. ;-) ) are > only at about 140..150 W. I've noticed that my Alphastation 500/500 generates more heat than my Alphaserver 4100, and the 4100 has two power supplies and four 466MHz CPUs. I couldn't believe it at first (I added the AS500 and the room got a lot warmer) so I shut them both down, let the room cool off, then brought the AS500 up. The room quickly got warm. I then shut the AS500 down, let the room cool off, then brought up the 4100. The room stayed cool. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From avickers at solutionengineers.com Mon Jan 6 13:13:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: ADMIN: Coming Updates, Question (classiccmp) In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20030106115452.008d79d0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030106190929.017eb9d8@slave> At 18:54 06/01/2003, gil smith wrote: >Then the daily volume of emails got high, so I elected digest mode. The >digest is nice and compact, but not easy to use. Many, many moons ago, I wrote a program (in VB3 IIRC) which would take an e-mail digest, and split it back out into its individual e-mails. I wrote it because - just like yourself - I was having trouble keeping up with 2 lists (both VB related), and the digests were so inherently unusable. Maybe it's time to root that out again, if I still have it, and update it to use the CCtalk list... Would there be much interest in that? Platform would be Windoze initially, with maybe a Linux version to come if I can get my head around Kylix. I might even be tempted to write a version for CBM PET :) In fact, I might be better starting again - that way, I stand half a chance of linking it into e-mail systems, etc. Maybe if you (gil) could send me a couple of digests to muck about with; which would save me messing up the system I've *finally* got configured almost the way I want it to be. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From shirsch at adelphia.net Mon Jan 6 13:13:42 2003 From: shirsch at adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: Any Corvus collectors out there? Message-ID: Hi, I'm new to this list and wondering how many Corvus collectors are out there. I have a fairly broad collection of hardware and software, including 3 or 4 (working!) Bank tape drives (complete with the rare-as-hens-teeth continuous loop cartridges). Other interests and collections: - Apple II and Apple /// - IBM RT/PC - AT&T 3B1 - Heath H11 - Intel MDS-800 - Asst. old CP/M boxen Steve From clarksd5 at bellsouth.net Mon Jan 6 13:13:47 2003 From: clarksd5 at bellsouth.net (davidclark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: Timex/Sinclar 1000 Message-ID: <000c01c2b5ae$f01af270$355afea9@davidclark.com> I have a Timex/Sinclair 1000. Excellent condition, with manual and boxed memory plug-in. A little before my time....but I've held on to it. Any market for this ? David Clark Mobile AL USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030106/b8d7591b/attachment.html From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jan 6 13:13:53 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:05 2005 Subject: what a bargain! In-Reply-To: <20030104112141.61643.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Jules Richardson > Sent: 04 January 2003 11:22 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: what a bargain! > > > > Saw a Spectrum +2 at a car boot sale this morning, complete with label as > follows: > > Sinclair Computer > (Works with any monitor or TV) > All games etc. > 75 pounds woo - I've got 6 here (don't ask), I could make a killing :) -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From randysr57 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 6 13:13:59 2003 From: randysr57 at hotmail.com (Randy Enochs Sr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: apple llc computer Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030106/3763bb19/attachment.html From robross at earthlink.net Mon Jan 6 13:14:04 2003 From: robross at earthlink.net (Rob Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: TRS-80 fever on ebay?! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Any reason why this system sold for $1000? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2085217285 Note it's a Model I level 2, not level 1, even though the description deceptively states it's including a manual for a Level 1 Basic user's manual. The same bidder has spent way too much on several other TRS-80 auctions recently. Anyone have a clue what's the deal? Rob From RITA.WISDOM at tccd.edu Mon Jan 6 13:14:11 2003 From: RITA.WISDOM at tccd.edu (WISDOM, RITA) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: DECmate II Message-ID: Do you still need the system diskette for the DEC II? I have several system diskettes, but I also have about 15-18 data diskettes that I would like to retrieve the data from. Perhaps we can exchange favors for each other. Let me know if you're interested. Thanks! Rita Wisdom Writing Center 817-515-6936 From pdm4606 at sbcglobal.net Mon Jan 6 13:20:05 2003 From: pdm4606 at sbcglobal.net (Paul Mika) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: New to list In-Reply-To: <200301061754.JAA13646@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: I collect older Macs. In any shape or form. It gives me no greater pleasure than to hook up mon. and kbd. and get something. Anything. I find them all around as doorstops and whatever. usually cheaper than fly turds. Most want to get rid and forget they ever got involved with a Mac. "Now for a real computer" I have already gotten an old power pc 6100/66 (1993-94) for .25 (cents).It worked fine. Just not computer enough for some guy. Any thoughts??? P.M. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 6 13:39:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: Anyone need old RAM? Message-ID: If so, contact Hank. Reply-to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 10:50:32 -0700 From: Hank Staffa To: vcf@vintage.org Subject: Question Do you have a need I have boxes of old memory upgrades starting with sipp modules. Does your organization have a use for these? Hank Staffa Rocky Mountain Ram 1-800-543-0932 www.ram-it.com -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From clint at mutantindustries.com Mon Jan 6 14:18:01 2003 From: clint at mutantindustries.com (Clinton Baker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: Loch NeXT Monster In-Reply-To: <20030104211106.87222.qmail@iname.com> Message-ID: If the battery is dead, the machine may lose it's boot path info contained in the ROM Monitor. If the display is dead, it makes running these guys a little tricky since the cubes and monostations weren't designed to be run headless. If this is the case, you can try typing b sd a minute or so after boot to see if it will continue on it's way, assuming you boot from the fist SCSI device in the system. You might want to check the monitor cable as well. I had the display "fail" on my cube, as well as other booting problems. I swapped out that monitor cable and the machine magically came back to life. clint -- On Sat, 4 Jan 2003, robert erianne wrote: > Battery replacement instructions for NeXTCube and Dimension are provided in the User's Reference. But I own a NeXTstation N1100 equipped with a decade-old battery and whose screen went dark during use. > > Powering down and rebooting were normal, except for the dark screen. According to the User's Reference, the screen problem suggests a weak battery, whose replacement must be performed by a dealer, in spite of the ease of access. > > I replaced the battery and hoped for the best, but now the system doesn't boot past the flashing of the keyboard lights. Obviously, the battery-maintained parameter settings in the PRAM have been lost. > > Since Mac people developed the NeXTstation, I think I need to zap the PRAM by holding down a key combo during bootup. But I may also need to reinstall the system software, which I don't have. > > If you can assist my recovery with instructions, a service manual, and/or a NeXTSTEP 3.0 CDROM, please contact 'Buck' at nashbucket@iname.com. > From kendonchatz at yahoo.com Mon Jan 6 14:39:01 2003 From: kendonchatz at yahoo.com (Kenneth Donchatz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: Hi Message-ID: <20030106204140.20949.qmail@web9305.mail.yahoo.com> New member here, just trying to see what this is all about, I have some dinosaurs in my basement that need new homes! Ken --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030106/d6c5d9c0/attachment.html From bpope at wordstock.com Mon Jan 6 14:46:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: Hi In-Reply-To: <20030106204140.20949.qmail@web9305.mail.yahoo.com> from "Kenneth Donchatz" at Jan 6, 03 12:41:40 pm Message-ID: <200301062047.PAA31108@wordstock.com> And thusly Kenneth Donchatz spake: > > New member here, just trying to see what this is all about, I have some > dinosaurs in my basement that need new homes! Are they in need of a bigger place? ;-) What type of "dinosaurs are we talking about? Cheers, Bryan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 6 14:50:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: Hi In-Reply-To: <20030106204140.20949.qmail@web9305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030106205253.7689.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Kenneth Donchatz wrote: > > New member here, just trying to see what this is all about, I have some > dinosaurs in my basement that need new homes! Welcome! Where you at and what brand/flavor of dinosaurs? I myself am partial to DEC hardware, as are several other folks. The ones that I use most are the 8200 in the basement and the DEC-4000 AXP server in the library. A close runner-up is a PDP-11/23 (RT-11), and a PDP-8/L with high-speed papertape reader that I show off to visitors by running blinkenlights programs and firing up FOCAL on the ASR-33. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Jan 6 14:52:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: Hi In-Reply-To: <20030106204140.20949.qmail@web9305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Kenneth Donchatz wrote: > New member here, just trying to see what this is all about, I have > some dinosaurs in my basement that need new homes! Well, chances are you've found the right place. Interests here span everything from collecting and repairing micros, minis, mainframes, super computers and peripherals for all of the above. What type of gear are you collecting? -brian. From anthony_colello at yahoo.com Mon Jan 6 16:05:01 2003 From: anthony_colello at yahoo.com (Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000TX and 1400LT Message-ID: <20030106220818.72099.qmail@web13408.mail.yahoo.com> Hello Everyone, Can anyone shed some light onto the possible value of the following computers: Tandy 1400LT portable computer (2 floppy drives & case) Tandy 1000TX (20MB hard drive) Both are in excellent working order and would love to know the collectability and value of them. Thanks for the help. - Anthony __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From classiccmp at crash.com Mon Jan 6 16:07:00 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: Epson manual needed Message-ID: <200301062208.h06M7na23188@io.crash.com> Richard A Cini writes: . > Over the vacation I dug out my Seiko/Epson 486 computer. It's a POS > (point-of-sale) computer that I bought from Timeline two years ago I picked up the same unit in early '99 for $100 or so, from Timeline. Wanted to use it as the always-on DNS/NIS/X10 host for the house. It's really a nice little single-board PC in a small box with 2.5" IDE HDD, floppy, ISA slot and maybe one other. Haven't used it in a while - looks like the "CMOS battery" is dead/flat and it won't listen to the PS/2 keyboard as a result. Weird... I do have the paper docs, but the question is where... Also, it's one small perfect-bound booklet, not terribly amenable to scanning. Is there something specific you need info on? --S. From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jan 6 16:36:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: 11/03 system on eBay sold In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Jan 06, 2003 04:26:21 AM Message-ID: <200301062238.h06Mcrb01708@shell1.aracnet.com> > Are y'all ready for *this*?? > > Somebody bought that fairly bare-bones 11/03 with no HD, a DSD dual RX02 > clone, and some kind of I/O board (maybe ADC/DAC??) and a ratty old VT100 > w/no keyboard for... > > $449.44 YOW! I've got 2-3 11/03's I don't really care about, if the prices get much better, I might be tempted to dump them on eBay! Though since the only AD/DA boards I've got are 16-bit, I'm more likely to keep them. I've been wondering, ever since I got it a few years ago, what my PDT-11/150 would go for on eBay. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jan 6 16:38:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: ./ does the Reuters article... :( In-Reply-To: from "Jeffrey Sharp" at Jan 06, 2003 07:32:06 AM Message-ID: <200301062240.h06MevX01826@shell1.aracnet.com> > Well, at least it's helping membership. We're at 804 as of this morning. > That's 622 in cctalk and 182 in cctech, mind you. But, are you counting people that are subscribed to both, twice? Or, maybe I should simply be asking is anyone subscribed to both. Zane From jwb at paravolve.net Mon Jan 6 17:23:00 2003 From: jwb at paravolve.net (James W. Brinkerhoff) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: VAXserver 3100 Message-ID: <20030106182421.52ca9152.jwb@paravolve.net> I have come into posession of some old DEC equipment... A VAXserver 3100 Storage Expansion Unit (?) and a VaxStation 4100 (?) (?) These look pretty stripped, dunno much bout VAX hardware so I can't really say how bad. The VaxServer 3100 looks to be mostly complete and gives me some beeps if I turn it on.. I wanna try and get the 3100 to a running state (or at least determine if its worth it) ... Anyone have any pointers to information about this specific model? (it seems that the VAXServer 3100 has a number of submodels /w different connections on the rear?) Or, more specifically, how to determine what model it is *specifically* (other than the nameplate on the front).. The backside says the model # is DJ-31CP1-A, however a google search doesn't turn up much. The type of and location for serial consoles would prolly be the biggest help, so I can actually get some output from this thing. Thanks in advance, -jwb From cb at mythtech.net Mon Jan 6 17:25:41 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: IBM 5114 Message-ID: An IBM 5114 box, that is just a dual 8" floppy cabinet... yes? Are both drives the same? (mine have hand written stickers marked D-80 on one, and D-40 on the other) I just dug mine out enough to look at it, and that is all it appears to be. However, I could have sworn that at one point I had a 5 MB hard drive unit of about the same size (I even had some old 8" floppies that claim to be backup of a hard drive). Is there a hard drive built into the same box? The 5114 has been under my 5110 for many many years, burried in the back of my telco room. I assume it is the floppy drive unit we used with the 5110, but then, I had assumed it was the 5 MB hard drive that I thought we once owned. Maybe now that the 5110 and 5114 are undug, I will take them out and play with them. I unzippered the bag to the 5110 far enough to confirm that it is indeed a Basic/APL switchable unit like I thought. So now the question is... what hard drive was there for use with either the 5110 or the System/23? I don't know which system my backup floppies go to, but they are the only two systems that I ever had 8 inch floppies for, so it must be one of them. (and then the bigger question is... where did my hard drive go?!? It isn't like it can get up and run away... and I'm assuming it is large enough that it can't really be hidden in a corner anywhere... although I did overlook a System/23 datamaster for a number of years, so anything is possible) -chris From mbg at TheWorld.com Mon Jan 6 17:35:01 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: 11/03 system on eBay sold Message-ID: <200301062337.SAA109507792@shell.TheWorld.com> >I've been wondering, ever since I got it a few years ago, what my >PDT-11/150 would go for on eBay. Same here... I've got a few with the EIS/FIS chip in them, maybe that qualifies them for 'L@@K, R@RE' :-) Megan From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jan 6 17:36:31 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: TRS-80 fever on ebay?! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Will Jennings wrote: > I think if I ever somehow had a drastic increase in cash flow, I would > likely buy nearly every pre-1980 or so mopar I could get my hands on, > especially 67-69 barracudas.. I dunno, 2 1967s just isn't enough... Of > course, I would immediately be shot by my parents but yeah.. Flew into Phoenix airport this afternoon, and down by the baggage carousels they had a '71 440 *Automatic* Charger R/T. Yes, it was built that way, and yes, as far as I could tell it was showroom perfect. Plum Purple. Black leather, front buckets. R/T trim package. RRrrooooowwwww!!! They only want $55k for it. Doc From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Jan 6 17:51:01 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: TRS-80 fever on ebay?! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Doc Shipley wrote: > They only want $55k for it. > So when are you taking delivery????? Paid my go-kart, street-rod, B-Gas dragster, and CART dues... John From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Jan 6 18:00:00 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: TRS-80 fever on ebay?! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <051001c2b5e0$1fa7fd40$020010ac@k4jcw> I have a '74 Barracuda that's being restored. The original 283 was tossed out into the dirt by the previous owner, and a 440 dropped in. During the restoration, I found a cracked piston skirt, so I had the engine rebuilt. We're looking for some adapter plates to put it on the dyno, but the desktop calculation says 475 HP at the crank. http://tinymicros.com/vehicles/cuda/images/74Cuda_001.jpg and http://tinymicros.com/vehicles/cuda/images/74Cuda_002.jpg. The previous owner did a couple things I don't care for, such as making the inlets functional (well, air goes in, but it just goes down over the manifold, and nowhere useful), painted the bumpers, and lost the sheet metal where the exhaust should come through. I'm putting as much as possible back to factory as far as esthetics. Obviously it'll never show class 1 because the numbers don't match. Before I started the resto project, she could lay 110' of rubber on those crappy tires that are on there. --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Doc Shipley > Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 18:38 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: TRS-80 fever on ebay?! > > > On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Will Jennings wrote: > > > I think if I ever somehow had a drastic increase in cash > flow, I would > > likely buy nearly every pre-1980 or so mopar I could get my > hands on, > > especially 67-69 barracudas.. I dunno, 2 1967s just isn't > enough... Of > > course, I would immediately be shot by my parents but yeah.. > > Flew into Phoenix airport this afternoon, and down by the baggage > carousels they had a '71 440 *Automatic* Charger R/T. Yes, > it was built > that way, and yes, as far as I could tell it was showroom > perfect. Plum > Purple. Black leather, front buckets. R/T trim package. > RRrrooooowwwww!!! > They only want $55k for it. > > Doc > From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jan 6 18:06:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: 11/03 system on eBay sold In-Reply-To: from "Megan" at Jan 06, 2003 06:37:46 PM Message-ID: <200301070008.h0708m506909@shell1.aracnet.com> > >I've been wondering, ever since I got it a few years ago, what my > >PDT-11/150 would go for on eBay. > > Same here... I've got a few with the EIS/FIS chip in them, maybe > that qualifies them for 'L@@K, R@RE' :-) > > Megan Just being a PDT-11/150 qualifies them as 'L@@K, R@RE' :^) Having the EIS/FIS chip should qualify them as 'L@@K, ULTR@ R@RE'. I'm assuming that unlike me, you've also got software that will run on them. The trick would be to come up with software and doc's, and include 'screenshots' of it booting up. Including a terminal would be icing on the cake. I'm guessing such a setup would either go for a frightening amount, or nothing. Zane From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jan 6 18:18:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: TRS-80 fever on ebay?! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, John Lawson wrote: > > > On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Doc Shipley wrote: > > > They only want $55k for it. > > > > So when are you taking delivery????? Dude, if I had 55 large to drop today, I would NOT be sitting in front of my computer right now. > Paid my go-kart, street-rod, B-Gas dragster, and CART dues... Heh. I was lead wrench-wrangler for Hill Kountry Kart Klub's 2001 track champion. What used to be a B&S 20hp got tuned up to about 42bhp at the wheels. We sat out 2002 getting this business going, and we're looking at the senior shifter class. I don't drive anymore. I thought for years it was my reflexes going, but realized recently that it's just my eyes. I see fine, as long as there's a good half-second to adjust focus for range changes. Not a working hypothesis on a track. Doc From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 6 18:23:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: Busted Mac In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Jan 5, 3 09:25:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1035 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030106/37c76543/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 6 18:24:27 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: Collecting prototypes (was: ./ does the Reuters article... :( ) In-Reply-To: <20030106043124.GL36939@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Jan 5, 3 11:31:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 625 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030106/5e3c68d2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 6 18:26:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 (PSU's Polarity and Amps needed) In-Reply-To: <28979-79969@sneakemail.com> from "No Junk Mail" at Jan 6, 3 04:57:12 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 572 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030106/ff80cee2/attachment.ksh From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Jan 6 18:38:00 2003 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: TRS-80 fever on ebay?! Message-ID: <20.682c29f.2b4b7be0@aol.com> In a message dated 1/6/2003 7:05:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, jcwren@jcwren.com writes: << I have a '74 Barracuda that's being restored. The original 283 was tossed out into the dirt by the previous owner, and a 440 dropped in. During the restoration, I found a cracked piston skirt, so I had the engine rebuilt. We're looking for some adapter plates to put it on the dyno, but the desktop calculation says 475 HP at the crank. >> Actually, the original engine would have been a 318, maybe a 340. There was a 273, but was not in production in 1974. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From menadeau at attbi.com Mon Jan 6 18:46:00 2003 From: menadeau at attbi.com (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: ./ does the Reuters article... :( References: Message-ID: <006001c2b5e6$26bcad00$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> You can blame me for the PC comment. I was speaking in relative terms. The conversation at the time was centering on really valuable systems, and he asked me about the PC. I said something like the typical IBM PC has little collector value compared to, say, the Apple I. At the time, I thought it wise not to get into the finer points of early-run PCs vs. later run models. Sorry. --Mike Michael Nadeau Editor/Publisher Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource www.classictechpub.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 4:38 AM Subject: RE: ./ does the Reuters article... :( > I read the Reuter's article earlier today (well actually Sunday :^) What > really got me was the comment about the IBM PC having basically no value > from a collectors standpoint. I don't know who the person was the wrote > the article, but I don't think they get it. There is nothing at all > interesting about an IBM PC. If you've seen one, you've seen them all. It > doesn't really matter to me if it was made 20+ years ago, or today. Of > course from the standpoint of actually using it, I'd obviously prefer > something modern and not the 20+ year old one :^) Me, I like both > interesting hardware and interesting OS's, but I'm mainly in it for the > OS's. > > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From glenslick at hotmail.com Mon Jan 6 18:53:00 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: HP Integral? Message-ID: How would you go about dumping the SE ROM? Is that a board that plugs into one of the two expansion slots? Are the ROMs on the board socketed so you could remove them and read and dump them? Assuming that would be possible, I wonder what it would take to build a new board with the same functionality and ROM images. I have two IPCs, but no SE ROM for either. I have the BASIC ROM daughter board for the HP-UX ROM board for one of them, but not the other. I was going to try to come up with a way to dump the BASIC ROM, but never really got started with that project. -Glen >From: Joe >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: HP Integral? >Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 20:03:28 > > Congradulations on the purchase of the IPC. I have several of them and >they're intersting machines. No but I'm not selling my SE ROM! If I ever >get my EPROM programmer working (Anybody got a service manual for the Data >I/O Unisite?), I may be able to dump the ROM. I also have the ROM for the >Technical BASIC. > > Joe _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Jan 6 18:56:00 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: TRS-80 fever on ebay?! In-Reply-To: <20.682c29f.2b4b7be0@aol.com> Message-ID: <051101c2b5e7$eb361c60$020010ac@k4jcw> Bah, you're right. It was the 318. I've been restoring this thing for so long now that I've forgotten any of the Mopar lore I knew. I'm just waiting to drive it again. --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of SUPRDAVE@aol.com > Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 19:40 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: TRS-80 fever on ebay?! > > > In a message dated 1/6/2003 7:05:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, > jcwren@jcwren.com writes: > > << I have a '74 Barracuda that's being restored. The > original 283 was tossed > out into the dirt by the previous owner, and a 440 dropped > in. During the > restoration, I found a cracked piston skirt, so I had the > engine rebuilt. > We're looking for some adapter plates to put it on the dyno, > but the desktop > calculation says 475 HP at the crank. >> > > Actually, the original engine would have been a 318, maybe a > 340. There was a > 273, but was not in production in 1974. > > -- > Antique Computer Virtual Museum > www.nothingtodo.org > From loedman1 at juno.com Mon Jan 6 18:59:00 2003 From: loedman1 at juno.com (loedman1@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: ADMIN: Coming Updates, Question (classiccmp) Message-ID: <20030106.170032.-96783.0.loedman1@juno.com> As I have sent the evil Gates creation, Internet (Blue Screen of Death) Explorer to the trash bin and purchased a copy of Opera, I must heartily agree with this suggestion Rich >In your re-design of the website, please be aware that possibly >*some* people may be using alternative browsers (ie: *NOT* MS-Internet >Explorer) to access the site, so keeping the browser-specific features >to a minimum would be really nice. From rschaefe at gcfn.org Mon Jan 6 19:03:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: Busted Mac References: <1046DF87-2144-11D7-8EE4-000502512D39@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <007d01c2b5e9$15d80040$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Strickland" To: Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:57 AM Subject: Re: Busted Mac > Really? Cool. So I guess I'm out of luck getting quicktime 4 to work > with it then, I was assuming it didn't work for lack of an FPU. :) On a side note, the '882 is a drop-in replacement for the '881, and offers significant improvements over it. Obclassiccmp: I swapped out the '881 in my SUN-3/280, but I haven't found enough Copious Spare Time to learn enough '882 FPU programming to be able to put it through it's paces yet. > Jim Strickland Bob From avickers at solutionengineers.com Mon Jan 6 19:40:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Ade Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: TRS-80 fever on ebay?! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1041903732.1269.4.camel@Syrinx> On Mon, 2003-01-06 at 23:38, Doc Shipley wrote: > Flew into Phoenix airport this afternoon, and down by the baggage > carousels they had a '71 440 *Automatic* Charger R/T. Yes, it was built > that way, and yes, as far as I could tell it was showroom perfect. Plum > Purple. Black leather, front buckets. R/T trim package. Hmm - that must be some kind of weird code for a computer, right? '71 440... Does it maybe have a slash in there somewhere ('71/440)? Obviously, the name "Charger" either implies it's a Texan computer, or maybe that it was really quite fast for it's day. R/T's got me stumped, unless it means "radio teletype", which seems unlikely... Oh, and what on earth would it want buckets for? Does it leak coolant or something? From avickers at solutionengineers.com Mon Jan 6 19:43:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Ade Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: TRS-80 fever on ebay?! In-Reply-To: <051001c2b5e0$1fa7fd40$020010ac@k4jcw> References: <051001c2b5e0$1fa7fd40$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <1041903915.1291.8.camel@Syrinx> On Tue, 2003-01-07 at 00:02, J.C.Wren wrote: > We're looking for some adapter plates to put it on the dyno, but the desktop > calculation says 475 HP at the crank. Hmm, reasonable for a 7.2 litre I suppose, although I've had 405bhp out of a 4 litre (normally aspirated, 2-valves/cylinder, aly top steel bottom)... Mind you, that was a rather special racing engine which cost over ?10k all by itself (that's about US$16k). -- Cheers, Ade. B-Racing, "B" where the action is! http://www.b-racing.com From avickers at solutionengineers.com Mon Jan 6 19:46:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Ade Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: PET chiclet keyboard Message-ID: <1041904127.1269.13.camel@Syrinx> Hi, Does anyone (pref. UK based for postage charges) have a spare chiclet-style keyboard for the PET 2001? I don't mind if it's broken, in millions of pieces, etc., just so long as the keytops are in good (or, ideally, excellent) condition and are all present. I have a k/b which works well, but is worn right down to the point where some keys are completely unreadable. It would be nice to have it looking all pristine again. -- Cheers, Ade. B-Racing, "B" where the action is! http://www.b-racing.com From livewire at netadel.com Mon Jan 6 19:46:44 2003 From: livewire at netadel.com (Live Wire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: diversi-dial for apple IIe Message-ID: <000b01c2b5ef$04206bc0$1e01a8c0@netadelxp> This is a longshot. But has anyone got Bill Bashams Diversi Dial for the Apple IIe? I've been searching for this for a few years, and have come up completely empty. The people who have it want to keep it for nostalgia (understandable). I would actually be connecting the Ddial to a terminal server box (bsd or linux) and run the chat system live on a IIe. I guess I'll have to find the serial cards too ;) Thanks! From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jan 6 19:55:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: TRS-80 fever on ebay?! In-Reply-To: <1041903732.1269.4.camel@Syrinx> Message-ID: > > Flew into Phoenix airport this afternoon, and down by the baggage > > carousels they had a '71 440 *Automatic* Charger R/T. Yes, it was built > > that way, and yes, as far as I could tell it was showroom perfect. Plum > > Purple. Black leather, front buckets. R/T trim package. > Hmm - that must be some kind of weird code for a computer, right? > '71 440... Does it maybe have a slash in there somewhere ('71/440)? > > Obviously, the name "Charger" either implies it's a Texan computer, or > maybe that it was really quite fast for it's day. Is it a battery operated unit? Perhaps with a 12V lead acid battery pack? > R/T's got me stumped, > unless it means "radio teletype", which seems unlikely... > > Oh, and what on earth would it want buckets for? Does it leak coolant or > something? bit buckets. From jss at subatomix.com Mon Jan 6 20:45:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: ADMIN: Coming Updates, Question (classiccmp) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <12848891562.20030106204800@subatomix.com> On Monday, January 6, 2003, Thomas Dzubin wrote: > In response to your question, I personally like the two list system. In > your re-design of the website, please be aware that possibly *some* people > may be using alternative browsers (ie: *NOT* MS-Internet Explorer) to > access the site, so keeping the browser-specific features to a minimum > would be really nice. I've been testing my work on IE, Netscape 4.something, and lynx. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Mon Jan 6 20:50:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: ADMIN: Coming Updates, Question (classiccmp) In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20030106115452.008d79d0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> References: <3.0.32.20030106115452.008d79d0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: <4349204732.20030106205313@subatomix.com> On Monday, January 6, 2003, gil smith wrote: > When I joined the list, I chose cctech, to reduce the off-topic stuff a > bit. However, When I posted a question to cctech, I missed most of the > answers, since the folks were replying to cctalk. That was no good, so I > joined cctalk instead, and get the extra stuff anyway. Cctech works differently now. For a while now, cctech subscribers and cctalk subscribers get the exact same posts, _except_ for OT posts, which cctechies don't get. They're like two interfaces to the same list. See the other post I am about to send for more clarification. > Then the daily volume of emails got high, so I elected digest mode. The > digest is nice and compact, but not easy to use. It would be great if the > message list had clickable links to the messages below, but then it would > need to be html or pdf, I suppose. And nobody really wants html mail (me > included). You can go into your subscription options and have digests sent in MIME format. Or use the UNIX tool "formail". One of its many applications is to split digests. > How about a diffent kind of digest: is it possible for the email digest to > have links to the web versions of the messages? Not possible with Mailman AFAIK. -- Jeffrey Sharp From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jan 6 20:53:01 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: Busted Mac In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > And here is a page describing the sad mac error codes. > http://www.mac512.com/sadmac.htm It looks like your problem is a bad > RAM chip. OK on the memory fault - I was a little confused as to what a "Mod3" error was, with some information I had. The page on mac512.com cleared that up, mostly. Anyway, with the subcode of 8298, what chips might be bad? According to the table, it might mean that G12, G6, and F8 might be troublesome, but what does the 9 signify? William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 6 20:56:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: Selling an old IBM AS400/9404 In-Reply-To: <003601c2b540$42773c00$6601a8c0@boyhowdy> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, John Mark wrote: > I'm selling an '89 IBM AS400/9404 and I'm trying to find out the > appropriate price. Here are the specs. Anyone able to help me out? I guess it might have value on the secondary market, but as a collectible: $0-10. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Jan 6 21:08:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: Selling an old IBM AS400/9404 In-Reply-To: References: <003601c2b540$42773c00$6601a8c0@boyhowdy> Message-ID: <1509.4.20.168.104.1041909078.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> John Mark wrote: > I'm selling an '89 IBM AS400/9404 and I'm trying to find out the > appropriate price. Here are the specs. Anyone able to help me out? Sellam Ismail wrote: > I guess it might have value on the secondary market, but as a > collectible: $0-10. In my experience, they have even *less* value on the secondary market; you may even have to pay to have the larger (9406) models scrapped. The problem is that the software licenses for the older CISC-based models are non-transferrable, and the cost of buying a new OS/400 license is substantial. (I'm not sure IBM will even sell OS/400 for CISC any more.) Even if you don't care about having a legitimate OS/400 license, if you leave the machine powered off for too long, the service processor will demand a password on startup, which you have to obtain from IBM. And if you don't have a license, IBM won't give you a password. If you want to do a fresh install of software onto a CISC-based AS/400, you need a MULIC tape (Machine Unique Licensed Internal Code) for the specific hardware model. If you don't get the right MULIC tape with the machine, it is very hard to find one, and they are very expensive to buy from IBM. The software licenses for the newer PowerPC (RISC) based AS/400 and iSeries machines are transferrable. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 6 21:28:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: Apple //gs available in Hurst, Texas Message-ID: To anyone interested in an Apple //gs, please contact Crew directly. Reply-to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:24:22 -0600 From: Reynolds To: Vintage Computer Festival Subject: RE: Apple II GS It's in Hurst, TX. I've got enough to boot it up, no docs. I might have one or two disks. -----Original Message----- From: Vintage Computer Festival [mailto:vcf@siconic.com] Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 8:46 PM To: Crew Reynolds Subject: Re: Apple II GS On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Crew Reynolds wrote: > I've got an old II GS that's going in the dumper unless you want it. Can > you spring for shipping UPS ground? I'm guessing it will be about $18-20 > to ship. Hi Crew. Where is it located? What else do you have with it (i.e. documentation, software, etc.)? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jan 6 21:36:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: Old ETCO catalogs Message-ID: Some people might recognize the name ETCO - an old time surplus house that, like so many, died in the 1980/90s. Anyway, I found a few of their old catalogs, mostly from around 1982. I used to get these things, and had a good time paging thru these relics, looking up some of the crap I used to buy. Wow, if I could only go back and order more of those tubes... I am done with them...anyone want one for a retro-surplus half-hour good time? Available for postage - $2.00 ought to do it. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jss at subatomix.com Mon Jan 6 21:39:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: How cctech works! (was: ./ does the Reuters article) In-Reply-To: <200301062240.h06MevX01826@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200301062240.h06MevX01826@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <2752136848.20030106214206@subatomix.com> On Monday, January 6, 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: >> Well, at least it's helping membership. We're at 804 as of this morning. >> That's 622 in cctalk and 182 in cctech, mind you. > > But, are you counting people that are subscribed to both, twice? Or, maybe > I should simply be asking is anyone subscribed to both. Let me explain again how cctech works now. The simple answer is that cctech and cctalk work like different views of the same list. Cctech subscribers get all on-topic posts sent to either list. Cctalk subscribers get the same messages plus off-topic messages. The only difference between cctalk and cctech is reception of off-topic messages and moderation delay. If you look at the (recent) archives of cctech, you'll see that they have mostly the same exact messages as the cctalk archives. The only things missing from the cctech archives are off-topic posts. I'm sending this message to cctalk, but both lists will get it because it is on-topic. Here is the not-so-simple answer: Cctalk and cctech technically are separate Mailman lists, but you can't post to just one of them. The aliases cctalk@classiccmp.org and cctech@classiccmp.org are set up somewhat like this like this: cctalk@cla... --+ +--> post to cctalk +--> classiccmp@cla... --+ cctech@cla... --+ +--> post to cctech Thus, no matter which posting address you send your post to, our mail system automagically tries to post it to both lists. If you are subscribed to cctalk, your post is immediately accepted by cctalk and delivered to the other cctalk subscribers. Cctech, however, holds your post for moderation, since you don't subscribe to cctech. Some time later, a moderator will look at your post. If your post is on-topic, it will be approved and delivered to cctech subscribers. If you are a cctech subscriber, your post is immediately accepted by cctech and delivered to cctech subscribers. Because of the way Mailman is set up, your post is also immediately delivered to the cctalk people (well, unless your're new and I haven't got around to processing you yet). Subscribing to both lists at the same time is an error. If you do so, you will get two copies of every on-topic message. My apologies if this isn't the clearest thing that I have ever written. I am very tired at the moment due to insomnia last night. This is going in the FAQ. -- Jeffrey Sharp From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Jan 6 22:41:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: TRS-80 fever on ebay?! References: <1041903732.1269.4.camel@Syrinx> Message-ID: <3E1A5A93.8010207@jetnet.ab.ca> Ade Vickers wrote: > Oh, and what on earth would it want buckets for? Does it leak coolant or > something? Boy does nobody ever use a bit bucket now days. Ben. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 7 00:17:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: 11/03 system on eBay sold In-Reply-To: <200301062337.SAA109507792@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <20030107062032.75103.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Megan wrote: > > >I've been wondering, ever since I got it a few years ago, what my > >PDT-11/150 would go for on eBay. > > Same here... I've got a few with the EIS/FIS chip in them, maybe > that qualifies them for 'L@@K, R@RE' :-) I used to have one. Sold it to another collector in Southern Ohio/Northern Kentucky for a song a number of years ago. Was originally going to write a Starfleet Battles damage tracking system on multiple terminals under RT-11, but decided I was probably never going to get around to it (now there's "Starfleet Command III", a game I helped beta test that does damage tracking, multiplayer, 3D combat rendering, etc., but it's waaay OT and will be for 9.75 more years). I do miss it, though. I'd seen one in 1985 and it took years to track one down. Now, of course, I wish I hadn't gotten rid of it. :-( -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Jan 7 00:23:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: IBM 5114 References: Message-ID: <008e01c2b615$a9272ac0$513bcd18@D73KSM11> > So now the question is... what hard drive was there for use with either > the 5110 or the System/23? I don't know which system my backup floppies > go to, but they are the only two systems that I ever had 8 inch floppies > for, so it must be one of them. (and then the bigger question is... where > did my hard drive go?!? It isn't like it can get up and run away... and > I'm assuming it is large enough that it can't really be hidden in a > corner anywhere... although I did overlook a System/23 datamaster for a > number of years, so anything is possible) > > -chris > > The hard drive for the System 23 was the IBM 5247. I have one (in the garage) it's a large cabinet-style drive that weighs about 120 lbs., and I have never seen another (although I'm sure Sellam has one in storage). It came in two varieties, as I recall, 17 or 33 MB. There was no hard drive option for the 5110 (or for that matter the 5100 or 5120). -W From phar_rec at bellsouth.net Tue Jan 7 00:49:01 2003 From: phar_rec at bellsouth.net (phar_rec@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:06 2005 Subject: 11/03 system on eBay sold References: <20030107062032.75103.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E1A78F8.E82D3740@bellsouth.net> Hi: New here. Any idea what an Amstrad PC 6400 would go for? Everything works great including the monitor. (From what I was told about it years ago was that the works are included in the monitor, not the piece the monitor sits on. I bought this computer new in the 80's..don't quite remember if it was the early 80's or what.) I have the manuals and everything for it. It has 2 dual disk drives (256K I think). I have the software and everything. Funny though, I still use it as I have things I put on word processing on those large floppies that I never knew how to retrieve to a smaller disc for my modern computer. The monitor is not the original one though. That one started smoking one day in the rear and I never used it again and threw it out. I found an Amstrad color monitor--the exact same one--in a pawn shop and use that one. Matches in color and everything. Regards, Bob Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Megan wrote: > > > > >I've been wondering, ever since I got it a few years ago, what my > > >PDT-11/150 would go for on eBay. > > > > Same here... I've got a few with the EIS/FIS chip in them, maybe > > that qualifies them for 'L@@K, R@RE' :-) > > I used to have one. Sold it to another collector in Southern > Ohio/Northern Kentucky for a song a number of years ago. Was > originally going to write a Starfleet Battles damage tracking > system on multiple terminals under RT-11, but decided I was > probably never going to get around to it (now there's "Starfleet > Command III", a game I helped beta test that does damage tracking, > multiplayer, 3D combat rendering, etc., but it's waaay OT and will > be for 9.75 more years). > > I do miss it, though. I'd seen one in 1985 and it took years > to track one down. Now, of course, I wish I hadn't gotten rid > of it. :-( > > -ethan > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jan 7 01:45:01 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: apple llc computer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030106234341.00a476e0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> >i have an APPLE llc computer with everything, monitor,printer original >manuals and a bunch of programs in mint condition.i would like to sell >.please let me know if there is anyone interested. Mostly it would be in what is in the bunch of programs, ie something unusual that I don't already have three of. Also depends on what "mint" means to you, ie new in the original box with no signs of any kind of use, wear, or aging. From quapla at xs4all.nl Tue Jan 7 02:31:01 2003 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (quapla@xs4all.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: 11/03 system on eBay sold In-Reply-To: <200301070008.h0708m506909@shell1.aracnet.com> References: from "Megan" at Jan 06, 2003 06:37:46 PM <200301070008.h0708m506909@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <11224.192.18.42.10.1041928433.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> > Just being a PDT-11/150 qualifies them as 'L@@K, R@RE' :^) Having the > EIS/FIS chip should qualify them as 'L@@K, ULTR@ R@RE'. Hmm, how would you qualify a CIS chip then? Ed From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Tue Jan 7 04:00:01 2003 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: TRS-80 fever on ebay?! In-Reply-To: <051101c2b5e7$eb361c60$020010ac@k4jcw> References: <20.682c29f.2b4b7be0@aol.com> <051101c2b5e7$eb361c60$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <64827.62.148.198.97.1041933742.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> J.C.Wren said: > Bah, you're right. It was the 318. I've been restoring this thing for so > long now that I've forgotten any of the Mopar lore I knew. I'm just > waiting > to drive it again. > Please stop talking about cars now. This is classiccmp, after all. Not that I'm jealous or bitter after spending better part of yesterday recharging the frozen battery in my 1986 Toyota. So how about this: It's allowed to talk about cars iff they're not 'Cudas, Mustangs, Challengers or the like ? (yes, this was a joke. A bad one at that. I want my Challenger) -- jht From jss at subatomix.com Tue Jan 7 06:17:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: Fwd: Commodore Stuff Available In-Reply-To: <7a.34e9b0ec.2b499327@aol.com> References: <7a.34e9b0ec.2b499327@aol.com> Message-ID: <17383240082.20030107062029@subatomix.com> Contact the original author, please. ---------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: REO1805@aol.com To: cc-admin@subatomix.com Date: Sunday, January 5, 2003, 7:54:47 AM Subject: commodore systems I have a commodore 128 (new condition as purchased in box) and a commodore 64c system (used but like new with box) also a commodore vic-20 manual if anyone should be interested ---------- End forwarded message ---------- -- Jeffrey Sharp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030107/b1e0aa5a/message.htm From jss at subatomix.com Tue Jan 7 06:20:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: Fwd: Xerox 8086 Worth? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1983374926.20030107062244@subatomix.com> Contact the original author, please. ---------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: Sonny Helms To: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org Date: Friday, January 3, 2003, 9:13:23 AM Subject: Zerox 8086 I have an Zerox 8086 with monitor and keyboard and software and books. It worked last time I had it hooked up about a year ago. What would it be worth. ---------- End forwarded message ---------- -- Jeffrey Sharp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030107/52106e3f/message.htm From jrice54 at charter.net Tue Jan 7 06:44:10 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000TX and 1400LT In-Reply-To: <20030106220818.72099.qmail@web13408.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030106220818.72099.qmail@web13408.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E1ACD22.6030808@charter.net> Very little actual value. I've seen both models in the DFW area surplus stores for free the past month. Tandy made far too many of both to be collectable. I own both models having purchased them new in the 80's. I keep them around because they were good machines for the price (at that time), they both work and I can't stand the thought of them in the landfill. James Anthony wrote: >Hello Everyone, > >Can anyone shed some light onto the possible value of >the following computers: > >Tandy 1400LT portable computer (2 floppy drives & >case) > >Tandy 1000TX (20MB hard drive) > >Both are in excellent working order and would love to >know the collectability and value of them. > >Thanks for the help. > >- Anthony > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com > > > -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From kandres at epssecurity.com Tue Jan 7 07:22:09 2003 From: kandres at epssecurity.com (Kevin Andres) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: New and reading the mail Message-ID: <099F935BC4E3B941984DED87DE9B482F0844E0@EPS-exchange.eps.sec.int.net> Hello Peoples, I am reading the the mail starting fairly recently. I have a Commodore Pet vintage 1975, serial # in the 13,000 range, received on Guam while in the U.S. Navy, currently not running has a screen full of random characters, seems to me I remember this as indicative of a 6550 MOSTEK ram failure. An Ohio Scientific Superboard, used as a development tool by a firm just starting in computer control of the real world. A DEC something that hasn't been run since it was shut down. The DEC had the BIG 10m removable drive packs, drives and packs since departed this earth in one lost shipment or other. I don't always get to the mail in a timely manner, but it certainly is interesting reading. I am encouraged that there are other enthusiasts out there who appreciate the electronics for what it is not necessarily what it will do at 4.8Ghz. Faster and bigger is not always better. It seems to me the days when programs had to be chained, led to better and less buggy programming. Kev kandres@epssecurity.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 12/30/2002 From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jan 7 07:25:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000TX and 1400LT In-Reply-To: <3E1ACD22.6030808@charter.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, James Rice wrote: > Very little actual value. I've seen both models in the DFW area surplus > stores for free the past month. Tandy made far too many of both to be > collectable. I own both models having purchased them new in the 80's. > I keep them around because they were good machines for the price (at > that time), they both work and I can't stand the thought of them in the > landfill. What about the same model - 1000TX - with the original box & docs, keyboard, touchpad and a blazing Tandy internal 300bps modem? Assuming the answer is still "< shipping", is there a Unix that runs on that goober? Doc From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jan 7 07:43:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: Any Corvus collectors out there? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030106162342.530fbc2c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Steve, I'm glad to see another Intel MDS collector on the list. There are a couple of people on the list have Intel MDSs. I have two working MDS 800s and two more untested ones. I also have a working MDS-235 and about five more untested 225s. However Dave Mabry is the real expert on them. He's been using them since they were new. I also have an AT&T 3B1 but I'm not too excited about it. Joe At 07:52 AM 1/6/03 -0500, you wrote: >Hi, > >I'm new to this list and wondering how many Corvus collectors are out >there. I have a fairly broad collection of hardware and software, >including 3 or 4 (working!) Bank tape drives (complete with the >rare-as-hens-teeth continuous loop cartridges). > >Other interests and collections: > >- Apple II and Apple /// >- IBM RT/PC >- AT&T 3B1 >- Heath H11 >- Intel MDS-800 >- Asst. old CP/M boxen > > > >Steve > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jan 7 07:54:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: TRS-80 fever on ebay?! In-Reply-To: <051001c2b5e0$1fa7fd40$020010ac@k4jcw> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030107090148.500f0822@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:02 PM 1/6/03 -0500, you wrote: > I have a '74 Barracuda that's being restored. The original 283 was tossed 283? When did they start putting Ford engines in Plymouths? I think you mean 318. >out into the dirt by the previous owner, and a 440 dropped in. During the >restoration, I found a cracked piston skirt, so I had the engine rebuilt. >We're looking for some adapter plates to put it on the dyno, but the desktop >calculation says 475 HP at the crank. >http://tinymicros.com/vehicles/cuda/images/74Cuda_001.jpg and >http://tinymicros.com/vehicles/cuda/images/74Cuda_002.jpg. Nice Ride! Reminds me of the '71 Barracuda that I used to have. The X-Ol got it when we divorced and promptly lost it to a sharpie-car dealer. :-( But I managed to keep my Challanger; 1970 RT Convertable with 440 6-Pak, Trak Pak, 15" Rally wheels, full instrumentation and ALL the toys including the factory AM-FM Stereo with the floor mounted cassette player/recorder. I still have it and probably always will :-) Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jan 7 08:22:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: TRS-80 fever on ebay?! In-Reply-To: <051001c2b5e0$1fa7fd40$020010ac@k4jcw> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030107091100.500f4f68@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> >> On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Will Jennings wrote: >> >> > I think if I ever somehow had a drastic increase in cash >> flow, I would >> > likely buy nearly every pre-1980 or so mopar I could get my >> hands on, >> > especially 67-69 barracudas.. Ah, A man after mine own heart! I've owned a '64 Sport Fury, '70 Duster, '68 Charger, '71 charger, '70 Hemi Superbird, '71 Barracuda, '70 Callanger RT convertable and '52 MG TD with a 340 Plymouth engine and a push button Torque-Flite stuffed into it. The only one that I still have is the Challanger. The MG was probably the least practicle but the most fun. NOTHING in Sacramento that could touch it, even the cops! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jan 7 08:22:19 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: TRS-80 fever on ebay?! In-Reply-To: <20.682c29f.2b4b7be0@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030107091407.500f2e58@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:40 PM 1/6/03 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 1/6/2003 7:05:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, >jcwren@jcwren.com writes: > ><< I have a '74 Barracuda that's being restored. The original 283 was tossed > out into the dirt by the previous owner, and a 440 dropped in. During the > restoration, I found a cracked piston skirt, so I had the engine rebuilt. > We're looking for some adapter plates to put it on the dyno, but the desktop > calculation says 475 HP at the crank. >> > >Actually, the original engine would have been a 318, maybe a 340. There was a >273, but was not in production in 1974. No 340s in '74 either. IIRC only 318s and 360s and I don't think they ever put 360s in the E body cars. I think '71 or '72 was the last year for the 340. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jan 7 08:22:59 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: HP Integral? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030107092226.522fcf76@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:44 PM 1/6/03 -0800, you wrote: >How would you go about dumping the SE ROM? Is that a board that plugs into >one of the two expansion slots? Yes. I also have one that's piggy backed onto a serial card. Are the ROMs on the board socketed so you >could remove them and read and dump them? IIRC they're soldered on and there are eight PROMs. Assuming that would be possible, >I wonder what it would take to build a new board with the same functionality >and ROM images. I doubt it would be very difficult. They're just mapped in the 68000s memory space. Given the size of the EPROMs available today I suspect you could make a replacement OS ROM (not card) that would contain the OS ROM and SE ROM in one or two EPROMS and a PAL to do any necessary address decoding. > >I have two IPCs, but no SE ROM for either. I have the BASIC ROM daughter >board for the HP-UX ROM board for one of them, but not the other. I was >going to try to come up with a way to dump the BASIC ROM, but never really >got started with that project. Same here. I shouldn't be difficult to write a C-program to read the BASIC and/or SE ROMs and dump the contents over the serial port, I just never got around to it. Joe > >-Glen > > >>From: Joe >>Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>Subject: Re: HP Integral? >>Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 20:03:28 >> >> Congradulations on the purchase of the IPC. I have several of them and >>they're intersting machines. No but I'm not selling my SE ROM! If I ever >>get my EPROM programmer working (Anybody got a service manual for the Data >>I/O Unisite?), I may be able to dump the ROM. I also have the ROM for the >>Technical BASIC. >> >> Joe > > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > From archivesoftware at celebritydirect.net Tue Jan 7 08:30:00 2003 From: archivesoftware at celebritydirect.net (Cord G. Coslor - Archive Software) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: Timex/Sinclar 1000 References: <000c01c2b5ae$f01af270$355afea9@davidclark.com> Message-ID: <00ca01c2b5b0$75e35720$585986d1@earthlink.net> MessageI would definitely be interested in this item... don't have an offer price, but I would be willing to consider what you'd need to get out of it. Sincerely, CORD G. COSLOR Celebrity Direct Entertainment ----- | Celebrity Direct Entertainment | 49 Halsey Dr. - Hutchinson, KS - 67502 | (620) 665-8366 | www.CelebrityDirect.net * CDE@CelebrityDirect.net ----- Original Message ----- From: davidclark To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:10 PM Subject: Timex/Sinclar 1000 I have a Timex/Sinclair 1000. Excellent condition, with manual and boxed memory plug-in. A little before my time....but I've held on to it. Any market for this ? David Clark Mobile AL USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030107/4cf566aa/attachment.html From jpe45 at cox.net Tue Jan 7 08:30:13 2003 From: jpe45 at cox.net (John Edwards) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: Expanded Custom Apple //e BBS System and Software Message-ID: <004701c2b5ca$b9ddd760$8cd30844@spicer> This is the computer Bob Hardy used to create Zork Zero and many other popular Apple // Games! 1Mb Ram, 60Mb HD, Custom GBBS `ProBOARD(tm) BBS Software. This was the system used for many years for GBBS SysOP Support and Software Development. System includes 28.8 BPS Modem, T-Switches and everything from Null Modem Cable to Printer. Huge library of Apple // Software and fully functioning BBS from the hay day of yesterlore! This Super System can be customized to suite your needs and is a superb one of a kind collectors item. ( It will go fast so if you are interested reply ASAP! ) Now excepting bids: jpe45 at cox dot net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030107/d7e4decd/attachment.html From steven.l.seto at boeing.com Tue Jan 7 08:31:00 2003 From: steven.l.seto at boeing.com (Seto, Steven L) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: Heath MAC II Message-ID: <18449D31834A0F448CA2E94065B675760B4552@XCH-MW-10.mw.nos.boeing.com> Joe: ...Did someone provide manual information? I use an MAC II and can probably give you some tips... Steve -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1526 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030107/463c0db8/attachment.bin From rbenward at parker.com Tue Jan 7 08:31:07 2003 From: rbenward at parker.com (rbenward@parker.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: System Industries 9900 controller Message-ID: Anybody interested in a System Industries 9900 controller?? Email me at rbenward@parker.com Bob PLEASE NOTE: The preceding information may be confidential or privileged. It only should be used or disseminated for the purpose of conducting business with Parker. If you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender by replying to this message and then delete the information from your system. Thank you for your cooperation. From bobh at tds.net Tue Jan 7 08:31:12 2003 From: bobh at tds.net (bobh@tds.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: More Ebay Insanity - TRS-80 for $1000! Message-ID: <200301062320.h06NKZ32010844@im2.sec.tds.net> It looks like maybe the one has manuals included? I have a Model 1 buried in my computer "junk". I'll have to see if it still runs. I could use a grand after Christmas! > > From: "Chandra Bajpai" > Date: 2003/01/06 Mon AM 06:32:16 CST > To: > Subject: More Ebay Insanity - TRS-80 for $1000! > > OK.I'll be the first one to stay I don't understand Ebay. > > Case in question: 2 TRS-80 Model I, Expansion Interface + Disk drive > Very similar machines.but look at the price difference: >$700 (with 5 > hours left) > > VINTAGE TRS-80 MODEL 1 SYS w/ 2 DISK DRIVES > Current Bid - $255 > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem > 7980&rd=1> &category=4193&item=2084917980&rd=1 > > 1ST TRS-80 MODEL 1 COMPLETE DRIVE EXPANSION + > Current Bid: $1000 > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem > 7285&rd=1> &category=4193&item=2085217285&rd=1 > > > Why the insanity? Because the auction title says 'First'???? > > Here's one that's almost as good: > > TRS-80 Model I Keyboard/CPU only - closed at $232 > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem > > &item=2084247042 > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030107/e603a53d/reply.html From osmo.palonen at pp.inet.fi Tue Jan 7 08:31:19 2003 From: osmo.palonen at pp.inet.fi (Osmo Palonen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: PDP8/S then GRI-909 and the perhaps a british machine called the Molecular? Message-ID: <000001c2b5e2$7ac9d840$0450df50@fi06pc1203> Hi, if I remember right, GRI-99 was the computer used in Dymo Graphics, called later Itek systems. Those were used for editorial and composing room text processing with "intelligent" VDU's with Z80 processors. There were a user Group for the European users of Itek systems in the 80's. The system was build in the USA, but I had no idea that the computer could have been British. I have used those systems by myself, but now studying history in the University of Tampere in Finland. Regards, Osmo Palonen From lynne at telemuse.net Tue Jan 7 08:31:25 2003 From: lynne at telemuse.net (Lynne Jolitz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: Early "open hw" projects (was Re: 32k boxen) Message-ID: <003301c2b5ef$2d774e80$6e8944c6@telemuse.net> Regarding your thread on NS32k designs (aug2002) to update. We showed off the 375 prototype at the VCF at NASA a few months back - it was a wirewrap and ran great. Also showed a production unit that also ran well. It was sold mostly in aerospace and government (which is why you don't see many owned by individuals nowadays). 386BSD was inspired by many SCS software innovations, including support functions. I passed on your kind words about the 375 to William. Regards, Lynne Jolitz. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030107/3efa752d/attachment.html From twin987 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 7 08:32:00 2003 From: twin987 at yahoo.com (M) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: FSOT: IBM 4869 external 5 1/4" floppy drive Message-ID: <20030107054446.33561.qmail@web14206.mail.yahoo.com> To whom it concerns, I am looking to find 1 maybe more external 5 1/4" floppy drives. Anyone with info please let me know. Mike twin987@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From vance at neurotica.com Tue Jan 7 08:32:08 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: MPU-401 Message-ID: I have the interface box for one of these, but not the card. Anyone know where I can get one? It's the 8-bit XT MIDI card. Peace... Sridhar From GGlass at alldata.net Tue Jan 7 08:33:00 2003 From: GGlass at alldata.net (Glass, Gail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: Apple Computer 1976 Message-ID: I have a Apple Computer I purchased in 1976. I also have the printer. It still works fine. Interested in selling. E-Mail me at gglass21@aol.com. From arthur.russell at teradyne.com Tue Jan 7 08:33:09 2003 From: arthur.russell at teradyne.com (Arthur Russell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: FPU, FAQ, and hardware for free Message-ID: <3E1AE314.57A19F55@icd.teradyne.com> Jim, I stumbled on www.classiccmp.org and noticed your reply to William Donzelli's post (yesterday): > have done a lot of business with them. Although they still give me > grief when I bring the se30 in for its occasional upgrade (new disk, > max out the ram, now idly seeking an FPU for it. :) Is the FPU you're looking for the 68882? If so, I think I have one. I don't know what package types this was offered in, my vague recollection is that the one I have is about 1.5" square pin-grid array. Anyway, you're welcome to it if you're interested. In return (or in spite of this!) I have only one request: the FAQ link for the Classic Computing message board doesn't seem to work for me - I need it because I want to offer the rest of my old Apple hardware up for grabs, but I don't want to spam the list with things like: "I have a complete Apple][+ system with a fair number of expansion cards and Sider 10MB HD. The remainder of what I have is old Mac-era stuff, I think I have had to throw out all of my one-piece hardware (Pluses and SEs) but I have a complete Mac IIci, possibly a IIsi, and some PM6100 and Centris 610 form factor stuff that wants a home." Perhaps there is a subset of folks that are interested in providing a home to more old hardware? I'm located just north of Boston MA. All the best, Arthur From mike at ambientdesign.com Tue Jan 7 08:33:15 2003 From: mike at ambientdesign.com (mike@ambientdesign.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000TX and 1400LT In-Reply-To: <3E1ACD22.6030808@charter.net> References: <20030106220818.72099.qmail@web13408.mail.yahoo.com> <20030106220818.72099.qmail@web13408.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030108020240.00f915d8@pop3.ihug.co.nz> At 06:50 7/01/03 -0600, you wrote: >Very little actual value. I've seen both models in the DFW area surplus >stores for free the past month. Tandy made far too many of both to be >collectable. I own both models having purchased them new in the 80's. > I keep them around because they were good machines for the price (at >that time), they both work and I can't stand the thought of them in the >landfill. Speaking of Tandy 1000s... I recently picked up a Australian Tandy 1000EX. A strange machine, keyboard and PC all in one unit. It also came with the original monitor and printer, though some clever person had cut off the monitor cables - nearly finished repairing that. I wonder how common those are. If anyone has the colour codes for the monitor plug/cable, please let me know! In fact, even knowing if the 1000EX used standard CGA would be a good start. Also concerning odd machines - anyone ever seen a Spectravideo SVI-808 PC? There was a SVI-808 modem as well, apparently, lots of confusion there. Mike. From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Jan 7 08:46:01 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: TRS-80 fever on ebay?! In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030107091100.500f4f68@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <052201c2b65b$fa80f630$020010ac@k4jcw> OK, last post on this topic, before I get flamed. A) You SOLD a '70 Hemi Superbird?!? Arghhhhh... Those are going for mondo cash these days. Only car that looks like it's moving at 100 MPH sitting at a stop sign. I'd LOVE to have one of those. B) What I really want is a '71 Barracuda with the 440 6-pack. But I couldn't find one of those. This one was kind of an odd find. I was commuting up to Raliegh, NC from Atlanta, GA once a week (leave Sunday night, come back Thursday night). I bought a couple of car rags for light reading, but before I got around to reading them, I was just poking around on the 'net, and decided to check out 'cudas. I found one about 7 miles from me (in NC), but didn't think much about it. Then I was looking through the auto-trader, and saw the same car. I started thinking it was a sign. So I called the guy, and we talk, and he says "You gonna be around Saturday? There's a gun show about 15 miles off, we can meet up, you can check out the car, and then we can go check out some WMDs." Sounded good, so I rearranged the schedule, drove the car, decided that what he was asking was pretty decent. Went to the gun show, ended buying a Sig P229. It was a good day. Of course, the wife was a little surprised when the 'cuda showed up, so I gave her the P229. --jcwren > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Joe > Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 09:11 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: TRS-80 fever on ebay?! > > > >> On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Will Jennings wrote: > >> > >> > I think if I ever somehow had a drastic increase in cash > >> flow, I would > >> > likely buy nearly every pre-1980 or so mopar I could get my > >> hands on, > >> > especially 67-69 barracudas.. > > > Ah, A man after mine own heart! I've owned a '64 Sport > Fury, '70 Duster, '68 Charger, '71 charger, '70 Hemi > Superbird, '71 Barracuda, '70 Callanger RT convertable and > '52 MG TD with a 340 Plymouth engine and a push button > Torque-Flite stuffed into it. The only one that I still have > is the Challanger. The MG was probably the least practicle > but the most fun. NOTHING in Sacramento that could touch it, > even the cops! > > Joe > > From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Jan 7 09:24:00 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: Apple Computer 1976 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: *boggle* On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Glass, Gail wrote: > I have a Apple Computer I purchased in 1976. I also have the printer. It > still works fine. Interested in selling. E-Mail me at gglass21@aol.com. > From mbg at TheWorld.com Tue Jan 7 09:25:00 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: 11/03 system on eBay sold References: from "Megan" at Jan 06, 2003 06:37:46 PM <200301070008.h0708m506909@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <200301071527.KAA109860720@shell.TheWorld.com> >> Just being a PDT-11/150 qualifies them as 'L@@K, R@RE' :^) Having the >> EIS/FIS chip should qualify them as 'L@@K, ULTR@ R@RE'. > >Hmm, how would you qualify a CIS chip then? I don't believe that there ever was a CIS chip for the 11/03,02 chipset. There was one for the 11/23[+]... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | | | | "this space | (s/ at /@/) | | unavoidably left blank" | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From cb at mythtech.net Tue Jan 7 09:34:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: Apple Computer 1976 Message-ID: >I have a Apple Computer I purchased in 1976. I also have the printer. It >still works fine. Interested in selling. E-Mail me at gglass21@aol.com. I'll give you $25!.... oh, ok $30 since you have the printer... but you pay shipping ;-) -chris From cb at mythtech.net Tue Jan 7 09:36:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: IBM 5114 Message-ID: >The hard drive for the System 23 was the IBM 5247. I have one (in the >garage) >it's a large cabinet-style drive that weighs about 120 lbs., and I have never >seen another (although I'm sure Sellam has one in storage). It came in two >varieties, as I recall, 17 or 33 MB. There was no hard drive option for the >5110 (or for that matter the 5100 or 5120). Well, I think I might have solved my hard drive mystery. Chalk it up to me having been too young to remember the hardware clearly. Armed with the info you gave me above, I did some calling around this morning to people that might have a clue as to what happened to the hard drive. Near as any of us can figure, the hard drive was never owned by my company... the backups were aquired when we bought a software company that developed the accounting package we used (which we later continued work on in house). So the hard drive belonged to the software company, and those guys kept their hardware, we just aquired the software rights. So now that I know there is no mystery hard drive for my 5110... I have to give some thought to if I want to sell the system. With this recent eBay fever over things like a TRS-80, I am pondering if I can get a pretty penny from my 5110. I could REALLY use the money towards a house purchase. (I've got the 5110 with both Basic and APL, a large assortment of manuals, a few tapes with software on them, and the 5114 floppy drive unit. I should also have a printer around, but I can't say for sure if the printer is still operational). Time to do some hunting on the possible value... and if that value is enough for me to part with it (it holds a bunch of sentimental value to me, as it was one of the first computers I ever played with... possibly THE first, I'd have to compare timelines against the Apple II I used in the late 70's) -chris From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jan 7 09:53:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: DEC Rainbow 100B available in Townsend, MA Message-ID: Ward Clark has a Rainbow 100B available with manuals and software. Please contact him if interested. Reply-to: -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 7 09:57:00 2003 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: Selling an old IBM AS400/9404 Message-ID: For what its worth, I know how to hack the QSEFCOR password... And I have 3 different MULIC tapes, too.. I'm working on getting more, to provide an archive for other 400-heads like myself.. I own like 7 of the things if you count the couple machines that exist in board state only.. Indeed, on the RISC machines the license is implicitly transferred with the machine, I believe it even says you MUST transfer the license and s/w with the machine... Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jan 7 10:06:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10 available in Norfolk, Virginia Message-ID: See below. Reply-to: <95tstm@cox.net> -----Original Message----- From: Vintage Computer Festival [mailto:vcf@siconic.com] Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 9:45 PM To: David N. Griffiths Subject: Re: Computer donation On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, David N. Griffiths wrote: > Would you have any desire for a complete Epson QX-10 with software and > documentation? One of the floppy drives (A) works when it wants but > otherwise it's in good shape. Hi Dave. Where is it located? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 10:26:37 -0500 From: David N. Griffiths <95tstm@cox.net> Subject: RE: Computer donation It is located here in Yorktown, Virginia, near Norfolk, Virginia. I also have the dot matrix printer for the QX-10. I've stored it within its original box in the garage since 1993. Cheers Dave -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 7 10:13:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: System Industries 9900 controller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030107161609.92745.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- rbenward@parker.com wrote: > Anybody interested in a System Industries 9900 controller?? > > Email me at rbenward@parker.com > > Bob I already have several, but I still have to ask what's under the hood? The 9900 had two bays for boards - drive intefaces on one side (I've only ever seen SMD interfaces) and host interfaces on the other side (dual 40-pin cables to host-specific cards). Do you have any of the cards that go into the host computers themselves? I have 1 for an 11/750, 2 for 11/70 and a couple on the shelf that I think are Qbus (came in a box of spares with no docs). I don't know what all were available, does anyone on the list know? We always had Fujitsu SMD drives on ours (forget the exact model numbers, but our system disk was a 160MB drive split into two logical RM03-alikes, and our data disks were Eagles). There are a couple of flavord of SMD interface (data rates are differend) and I dob't know if the 9900 can talk to the newer ones or not. We had a love hate relationship with ours - They were inexpensive compared to DEC disks of similar size (we got one before the RA81 was even available at $24,000 for ~400MB), but because the Eagle was not the same size as any DEC device, we always had to wait for the patch tapes to come out before we could upgrade VMS (SI would send us a TU58 to patch device geometry table in the DRDRIVER) Decent performance, IIRC. Got docs? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jan 7 10:13:10 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: T1000 Laptop Toshiba in Bangkok Message-ID: Is anyone interested in a Toshiba T1000 laptop from Thailand? There's nothing particularly special about the T1000. It's Toshiba's second laptop (the T1100 was the first) and it's just a DOS machine. However, the term "laptop" was first used by Toshiba, and this line of machines is what was given that name. I just think it's cool that someone in Thailand wanted to donate a computer :) Reply-to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 08:07:52 +0000 From: wuchrinton meephanlom Subject: T1000 Laptop Toshiba Dear Sirs, I had old Laptop T1000 Toshiba -FDD Single Density -512 KB Internal RAM -DOS 2.11 now Working well!!! form 1983-today Bey Meephanlom 209 Soi21 Ramkhamhaeng Road. Wantonglang, Bangkapi,Bangkok 10310 Thailand. Tel 669-5097531 -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Jan 7 10:22:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: What am I missing here? In-Reply-To: <000c01c2b44c$5cee9910$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: <3E1B0D94.9387.39DDA96C@localhost> Ay Eric, > Maybe I misread and saw an extra zero, but this looks crazy to me: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=2085217285 > What's so special about this machine? No Idea. No Way. it looks a bit like two idiots, or fake Bids to raise the level. Well, the condition is quite good, but still it's only a Level 2 unit (Level 1 had no numeric key pads). If somebody wants, I can get you one for lets say a 50% off ... so ONLY $$$500$$$ ... :) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From sipke at wxs.nl Tue Jan 7 10:22:29 2003 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: MPU-401 References: Message-ID: <00e601c2b669$5f26e100$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Would a Creative SB1-like card do ? Sipke de Wal ------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx ------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 7:26 AM Subject: MPU-401 > > I have the interface box for one of these, but not the card. Anyone know > where I can get one? It's the 8-bit XT MIDI card. > > Peace... Sridhar > > From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jan 7 10:23:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: HP 7970 E spool disk drive (fwd) Message-ID: I don't know what Rajat wants exactly but this is cool. VCF India? :) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:58:24 +0530 From: rajatkakkar To: donate@vintage.org Subject: HP 7970 E spool disk drive Respected Sir / Madam, I am having HP 7970 E spool disk drive at my home in India, I had got it through an auction and would like it to be put to some use. I look forward to you for this matter. Awaiting reply. Regards Rajat Kakkar -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jan 7 10:30:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: Looking for an old AT&T PC. (fwd) Message-ID: Can anyone help Lance in his quest to complete his AT&T collection? Reply-to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 00:02:56 -0600 From: Lance Bockelman To: vcf@vintage.org Subject: Looking for an old AT&T PC. Hello, I stumbled across your web page and found it very interesting. I am myself a collector of old computers and accessories. I am looking for a couple specific AT&T PC's and am wondering if you have come across any of them and would happen to know where I could find them. The models I need to complete my collection are: AT&T 6286 WGS and AT&T 6312 WGS. Any help or pointers you can give would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Lance Bockelman -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From arlen at acm.org Tue Jan 7 10:33:00 2003 From: arlen at acm.org (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: MPU-401 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 7/1/03 1:26 AM, vance@neurotica.com at vance@neurotica.com wrote: > I have the interface box for one of these, but not the card. Anyone know > where I can get one? It's the 8-bit XT MIDI card. > > Peace... Sridhar I believe I have one packed away. Contact me off-list if you're interested. Arlen -- Arlen Michaels arlen@acm.org From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Jan 7 10:39:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: PET chiclet keyboard In-Reply-To: <1041904127.1269.13.camel@Syrinx> Message-ID: <3E1B1186.19157.39ED126E@localhost> Servus Ade, > Does anyone (pref. UK based for postage charges) have a spare > chiclet-style keyboard for the PET 2001? I don't mind if it's broken, in > millions of pieces, etc., just so long as the keytops are in good (or, > ideally, excellent) condition and are all present. > I have a k/b which works well, but is worn right down to the point where > some keys are completely unreadable. It would be nice to have it looking > all pristine again. looks like I have a perfect match. I still have a complete set of replacement key-'caps' for the chicklet PET. They are NOS. Contact me via mail. Gruss H. P.S.: youre racing pages are displayed in black writeing on black background if I try it with a NS 4.78 -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Jan 7 10:42:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: MPU-401 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3E1B123C.15581.39EFDA29@localhost> > I have the interface box for one of these, but not the card. Anyone know > where I can get one? It's the 8-bit XT MIDI card. Ouch ... I have the card, and would love to get the box:) Back in the old days, it was the best sound add on for a game PC ... Well, I payed some 500 Bucks. Servus Hans P.S.: I know a guy who has still one or two new in box, but he still belives that they are worth money. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 7 10:42:08 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:07 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000TX and 1400LT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030107164448.6317.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Doc Shipley wrote: > What about the same model - 1000TX - with the original box & docs, > keyboard, touchpad and a blazing Tandy internal 300bps modem? > > Assuming the answer is still "< shipping", is there a Unix that runs > on that goober? Minix? Is it the 1000 that has the 186, or is that the 2000? Need at lesat a 286 for Venix, IIRC, and a 386 for Linux and other "modern" stuff. The instruction sets aren't all that different, but the MMUs are. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From davao at bigred1.com Tue Jan 7 10:46:10 2003 From: davao at bigred1.com (Gene Wilson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: apple llc computer In-Reply-To: <002701c2b5a5$04597cc0$714bfea9@oemcomputer> Message-ID: What are you asking for the Apple II+ computers and how are they equipped? Gene -----Original Message----- From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ron Bain Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 11:00 PM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Cc: Ron Bain Subject: RE: apple llc computer Did you get any offers. The reason I ask is that I have two Apple II+ computers I want to sell along with drives, software, etc. Ron -----Original Message----- From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Randy Enochs Sr Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 5:21 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: apple llc computer i have an APPLE llc computer with everything, monitor,printer original manuals and a bunch of programs in mint condition.i would like to sell .please let me know if there is anyone interested. _____ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.434 / Virus Database: 243 - Release Date: 12/25/2002 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030107/e051679d/attachment.html From amanise at mscn.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 7 10:46:21 2003 From: amanise at mscn.demon.co.uk (amanise@mscn.demon.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: Classic HP equipment available Message-ID: Hi, I’m acting on behalf of a friend of mine who is looking to find a good home for some classic HP Workstation equipment. He has two HP 9000 workstations which he bought way back when the world was young. One is a Model 345, the other a 710. They are both pretty much complete and there are also a couple of extras like hard disc drive unit, early optical disc unit, and external DAT drive. They both come with 16” graphics monitors and graphics input tablets, and both have their original HIL keyboards. The kit list goes like this; HP9000 Series 700 (Apollo) Base unit (sn:3147G02128) Monitor (A1497A) (2 off) Tape drive unit Model CP-150SE Floppy Drive Unit (Mitsubishi MF504B-318M) Optical Drive Series 630 Model 650/A (with 4 rewritable optical discs) HP9000 345 Workstation (sn:98578x3004G01849) Hard Disc Unit Series 330S Model C2212A (sn:3017A02452) DAT Drive Model 310 (sn:310-930013) Full set of HPUXv8.0 Manuals All this stuff is open to offers. If anyone is interested, I think the only caveat might be that if you take away one thing – you take away the lot. Serious expressions of interest should be made to this email address in the first instance. In the interests of practicality, you might like to note that we’re in England – but please don’t hold that against us. Many thanks, Adrian Manise From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 7 10:53:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: New and reading the mail In-Reply-To: <099F935BC4E3B941984DED87DE9B482F0844E0@EPS-exchange.eps.sec.int.net> Message-ID: <20030107165550.8366.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Kevin Andres wrote: > Hello Peoples, > I am reading the the mail starting fairly recently. I have a > Commodore Pet vintage 1975... currently not running has > a screen full of random characters, seems to me I > remember this as indicative of a 6550 MOSTEK ram failure. That's one possibility, but typically only if it's in the zero page area. One way to test that is to swap out the zero page RAM with a higher page and see if the problem persists. If the machine comes up with less RAM for BASIC, that's probably what the problem is. OTOH, those sockets are really crappy. It's possible that removing and reinserting the RAM will make a difference. Just pressing down on the socketed parts to reseat them can revive a "dead" PET. On a couple of later units, I've had to resort to removing sockets and replacing them with machined-pin ones. No chips were faulty, but there was intermittent contact causing all sorts of flaky behavior. Using a test instrument (pulse stretcher/logic probe, oscilloscope, etc.) to monitor the reset line is another thing to check. IIRC, they use a 555 timer to generate the reset pulse (common in the mid-70s) and I've seen those circuits fail for a variety of reasons. You can also build a NOP generator (use a second CPU chip) by bending the appropriate data bus leads up and hardwiring the databus to the NOP instruction (0xEA?) - You can then use a logic analyzer to monitor the address bus for stuck bits and the select lines on the MSI chips to see that they respond at the appropriate times. > An Ohio Scientific Superboard, used as a development tool > by a firm just starting in computer control of the real world. A buddy of mine had one of those when we were kids. He built his into a robot chassis (his second - the first was run by a Quest Elf with 256 bytes of RAM). Fun little guys, as I recall. > A DEC something that hasn't been run since it was shut down. > The DEC had the BIG 10m removable drive packs, drives and packs since > departed this earth in one lost shipment or other. RL02s. Not rare, but that means that you have the drive controller, either an RL11 or RLV11, probably (unless it's a PDP-8/a, in which case it's an RL8A controller, but that's less likely). There are plenty of people who could help you with that one if you provide a description of what you have. Welcome and good luck, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From kth at srv.net Tue Jan 7 10:55:01 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: VAXserver 3100 References: <20030106182421.52ca9152.jwb@paravolve.net> Message-ID: <3E1B0BAC.9050807@srv.net> James W. Brinkerhoff wrote: >I have come into posession of some old DEC equipment... > >A VAXserver 3100 >Storage Expansion Unit (?) > The storage expansion unit is made to hold additional (SCSI) hard drives.tapes/etc. Only items that should be inside are power supply, cabling, and the drives. I believe it could hold up to four devices. >and a VaxStation 4100 (?) > >(?) These look pretty stripped, dunno much bout VAX hardware so I can't really say how bad. > >The VaxServer 3100 looks to be mostly complete and gives me some beeps if I turn it on.. I wanna try and get the 3100 to a running state (or at least determine if its worth it) ... Anyone have any pointers to information about this specific model? (it seems that the VAXServer 3100 has a number of submodels /w different connections on the rear?) Or, more specifically, how to determine what model it is *specifically* (other than the nameplate on the front).. > > The VaxServers usually had 3 MMJ connectors and one DB-25 for the serial ports, one of which was the console port. Probably set at 9600 baud, but I saw variations as to which one it was. Never saw the middle MMJ or the DB25 being the console, so try the two "outer" MMJ's. The MMJ conections look like phone plugs with the clip offset. If you don't have a MMJ cable, ask for the pinout or where such cables can be found (plus where you are located in case someone is near) >The backside says the model # is DJ-31CP1-A, however a google search doesn't turn up much. > >The type of and location for serial consoles would prolly be the biggest help, so I can actually get some output from this thing. > > > From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Jan 7 11:05:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: Source for TI Silent 700 thermal paper? Message-ID: Does anyone know of a good source for rolls of thermal paper which are appropriately sized for use in a TI Silent 700 Data Terminal? -brian. From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Jan 7 11:09:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: HP 7970 E spool disk drive (fwd) References: Message-ID: <000501c2b66f$b3471380$033310ac@kwcorp.com> 7970E "spool disk drive" -> HP 7970E 1/2 mag tape drive. Vertical mount. 1600 bpi. Very good peripheral to have for HP21xx & 21MX/M/E/F enthusiasts Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 10:23 AM Subject: HP 7970 E spool disk drive (fwd) > > I don't know what Rajat wants exactly but this is cool. VCF India? > > :) > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:58:24 +0530 > From: rajatkakkar > To: donate@vintage.org > Subject: HP 7970 E spool disk drive > > Respected Sir / Madam, > > I am having HP 7970 E spool disk drive at my home in India, I had got it through an auction and > > would like it to be put to some use. > > I look forward to you for this matter. > > Awaiting reply. > > Regards > > Rajat Kakkar > > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Jan 7 11:13:07 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: HP 7970 E spool disk drive (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > I don't know what Rajat wants exactly but this is cool. VCF India? > Hell, yes! In Bangalore, the Silicon Valley of the Subcontinent... Been there, done that, got the shirt that hangs down past your knees... and God! could we eat good while we were there!! The only drawback is - there's very little 'scap'... things are used until they are no longer repairable at the component level, then recycled in mysterious and wierd ways. My friend in Chennai (Madras) *does* have a couple of original hard-drive CBM machines sitting on his shelf, though... Cheers Swami Audionanda Parametrica > :) > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:58:24 +0530 > From: rajatkakkar > To: donate@vintage.org > Subject: HP 7970 E spool disk drive > > Respected Sir / Madam, > > I am having HP 7970 E spool disk drive at my home in India, I had got it through an auction and > > would like it to be put to some use. > > I look forward to you for this matter. > > Awaiting reply. > > Regards > > Rajat Kakkar > > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jan 7 11:18:00 2003 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: New and reading the mail In-Reply-To: <20030107165550.8366.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Jan 7, 3 08:55:50 am" Message-ID: <200301071730.JAA23246@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Using a test instrument (pulse stretcher/logic probe, oscilloscope, > etc.) to monitor the reset line is another thing to check. IIRC, > they use a 555 timer to generate the reset pulse (common in the > mid-70s) and I've seen those circuits fail for a variety of reasons. > You can also build a NOP generator (use a second CPU chip) by bending > the appropriate data bus leads up and hardwiring the databus to the > NOP instruction (0xEA?) - You can then use a logic analyzer to monitor > the address bus for stuck bits and the select lines on the MSI chips > to see that they respond at the appropriate times. Hey, that's pretty slick! Yes, $ea is NOP on the 6502. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- 10% of computer users [use] Mac ... the top 10 percent. -- Douglas Adams --- From sonnet at sols.ucl.ac.be Tue Jan 7 11:32:22 2003 From: sonnet at sols.ucl.ac.be (Philippe Sonnet) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: Where To Sell? References: <200301071215_MC3-1-22B3-2C09@compuserve.com> Message-ID: <016901c2b673$6615e380$b6266882@ucl.ac.be> Do you have something to sell in PDP-8/L? See my website www.sonnet.be Philippe ----- Original Message ----- From: "ED CHIODO" To: "CCTECH" Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 6:15 PM Subject: Where To Sell? > 7-Jan-03 > > All - > > Have you any good experiences at selling your surplus (mostly DEC) gear? > The wife has said 'enough' to a basement full of antiques! > > > Ed Chiodo > From marvin at rain.org Tue Jan 7 11:44:01 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: What am I missing here? References: <3E1B0D94.9387.39DDA96C@localhost> Message-ID: <3E1B12A2.9EDCEA06@rain.org> Okay, if you are offering one for $500, I'll let one go for ... let's say $300 in untested excellent condition. BUT no expansion chassis, monitor, or keyboard ... well, okay I'll include the keyboard :). And it is a Level I without the numeric keyboard :). Hans Franke wrote: > > Ay Eric, > > > Maybe I misread and saw an extra zero, but this looks crazy to me: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=2085217285 > > > What's so special about this machine? > > No Idea. No Way. it looks a bit like two idiots, or fake > Bids to raise the level. Well, the condition is quite good, > but still it's only a Level 2 unit (Level 1 had no numeric > key pads). If somebody wants, I can get you one for lets > say a 50% off ... so ONLY $$$500$$$ ... :) > > Gruss > H. > > -- > VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen > http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Jan 7 11:57:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: What am I missing here? In-Reply-To: <3E1B12A2.9EDCEA06@rain.org> Message-ID: <3E1B23ED.13026.3A34F3DC@localhost> So how is life in sunni SoCal ? We just got first snow yesterday. Servus Hans P.S.: I might be over in Ca in early Feb. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Jan 7 11:57:19 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: What am I missing here? In-Reply-To: <3E1B12A2.9EDCEA06@rain.org> Message-ID: <3E1B23ED.11463.3A34F3CC@localhost> > Okay, if you are offering one for $500, I'll let one go for ... let's > say $300 in untested excellent condition. BUT no expansion chassis, > monitor, or keyboard ... well, okay I'll include the keyboard :). And it > is a Level I without the numeric keyboard :). Marvin, that's not fair. It's again you, and your unbelivable house full of computers. Of course with a supply like that you can cut a better deal than poor slobs like me. You are practicly giving it away ! Not Fair ! H. :)) -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Jan 7 12:04:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: (Sorry)Re: What am I missing here? In-Reply-To: <3E1B23ED.13026.3A34F3DC@localhost> References: <3E1B12A2.9EDCEA06@rain.org> Message-ID: <3E1B253C.11529.3A3A1277@localhost> > So how is life in sunni SoCal ? We just got first snow > yesterday. Ooops. Sorry, was ment to be private mail. Hans -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jan 7 12:05:01 2003 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: What am I missing here? In-Reply-To: <3E1B23ED.13026.3A34F3DC@localhost> from Hans Franke at "Jan 7, 3 07:01:01 pm" Message-ID: <200301071818.KAA03746@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > So how is life in sunni SoCal ? We just got first snow > yesterday. Windy. There was a lot of damage done in the Riverside and east Los Angeles areas. Last weekend in San Diego it really was sunny ... I think it was in the 70s :-) and it's pretty close today. Another brutal Southern California winter ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Do I look like I just fell off the turnip truck?! -- Ryoga, "Ranma 1/2" ---- From alhartman at yahoo.com Tue Jan 7 12:12:01 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model I Computers In-Reply-To: <20030107180000.20596.42023.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030107181517.42840.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> The presence or lack of a numeric keypad on a Model I is not a good indicator of whether it's Level I basic or not. I have a Model I (My original from 1979) which came without a keypad, and was a Level I computer, but which I quickly upgraded to a Level II computer. The only real way to tell is to power the unit up. Regards, Al Hartman P.S.: I'm looking for a working LNW-80 Computer. A model II would be preferred, but a Model I would be OK. If anyone has one they'd like to sell, please let me know.. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From Ed_Chiodo at compuserve.com Tue Jan 7 12:15:01 2003 From: Ed_Chiodo at compuserve.com (ED CHIODO) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: Where To Sell? Message-ID: <200301071215_MC3-1-22B3-2C09@compuserve.com> 7-Jan-03 All - Have you any good experiences at selling your surplus (mostly DEC) gear? The wife has said 'enough' to a basement full of antiques! Ed Chiodo From vance at neurotica.com Tue Jan 7 12:15:10 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: MPU-401 In-Reply-To: <00e601c2b669$5f26e100$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: Nope. Genuine Roland. The Soundblaster is software-compatible with the MPU-401, but it's completely different hardware. Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Sipke de Wal wrote: > Would a Creative SB1-like card do ? > > Sipke de Wal > ------------------------------------- > http://xgistor.ath.cx > ------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 7:26 AM > Subject: MPU-401 > > > > > > I have the interface box for one of these, but not the card. Anyone know > > where I can get one? It's the 8-bit XT MIDI card. > > > > Peace... Sridhar > > > > > From vance at neurotica.com Tue Jan 7 12:15:17 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000TX and 1400LT In-Reply-To: <20030107164448.6317.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > What about the same model - 1000TX - with the original box & docs, > > keyboard, touchpad and a blazing Tandy internal 300bps modem? > > > > Assuming the answer is still "< shipping", is there a Unix that runs > > on that goober? > > Minix? Is it the 1000 that has the 186, or is that the 2000? Need > at lesat a 286 for Venix, IIRC, and a 386 for Linux and other "modern" > stuff. The instruction sets aren't all that different, but the MMUs > are. There's also ELKS. http://www.elks.ecs.soton.ac.uk/ Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Tue Jan 7 12:15:25 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: MPU-401 In-Reply-To: <3E1B123C.15581.39EFDA29@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > > I have the interface box for one of these, but not the card. Anyone know > > where I can get one? It's the 8-bit XT MIDI card. > > Ouch ... I have the card, and would love to get the box:) > Back in the old days, it was the best sound add on for > a game PC ... Well, I payed some 500 Bucks. No doubt. I'm actually building a game PC right now. Probably with a 486DX-33. For old games I have lying around. Most of these games support the MPU-401 and MT-32. Speaking of which. What is an MT-32 like compared to the MPU-401? I've never seen one. > P.S.: I know a guy who has still one or two new in box, > but he still belives that they are worth money. *sigh* Peace... Sridhar From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Tue Jan 7 12:17:06 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: Chip Upgrades for 11/23 (was Re: 11/03 system on eBay sold) References: from "2003 06:37:46 PM" <200301070008.h0708m506909@shell1.aracnet.com> <200301071527.KAA109860720@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <3E1B1A35.10603@Vishay.com> Yes, there sure was a CIS chip for the 11/23[+]. And I am still looking for one to upgrade one of mine. I do have the FPF-11 floating point processor board that alternately connects to the socket for the FIS chip, I have a FIS chip in another processor board, but the sockets for CIS are still vacant in both. Once I get it / Should I ever get it, which languages could make use of it? - Assembler, of course, and COBOL, I think? Megan wrote: > I don't believe that there ever was a CIS chip for the 11/03,02 > chipset. There was one for the 11/23[+]... -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Jan 7 12:18:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: What am I missing here? In-Reply-To: <200301071818.KAA03746@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <3E1B23ED.13026.3A34F3DC@localhost> from Hans Franke at "Jan 7, 3 07:01:01 pm" Message-ID: <3E1B28B7.1924.3A47A8BD@localhost> > > So how is life in sunni SoCal ? We just got first snow > > yesterday. > Windy. There was a lot of damage done in the Riverside and east Los Angeles > areas. > Last weekend in San Diego it really was sunny ... I think it was in the 70s :-) > and it's pretty close today. Another brutal Southern California winter ;-) Looks like we are back on topic, 'cause that's exactly what I'm missing. Ok, we had an unusual warm Christmas, some days up to 15 Celsius (~60F?), still I'd love to avoide the white stuff at all. Servus Hans -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From marvin at rain.org Tue Jan 7 12:19:01 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: What am I missing here? References: <3E1B23ED.13026.3A34F3DC@localhost> Message-ID: <3E1B1ADD.6FF0CEEC@rain.org> Hans Franke wrote: > > So how is life in sunni SoCal ? We just got first snow > yesterday. It is wonderful ... sunny, about 75 degrees F (real temperature :) ), and it is expected to be that way through the weekend. > P.S.: I might be over in Ca in early Feb. This would be good ... about time you decided to visit the US :). BTW, the IBM5100, external tape drive, and printer were sold to someone over in Germany ($4942.98). Any thoughts about the best way to ship it? I certainly will miss it, but financial concerns made it necessary . BTW, both Eric Smith and Wayne Smith will have copies of the IBM 5100 tapes that include PATCH, GAMES, General Ledger, Accounts Payable, Payroll, and Accounts Receiveable/Invoicing. I am also keeping a set for myself; better to have them spread around in case a set gets destroyed somehow. I can't speak for either Eric or Wayne, but if anyone on the listserver needs copies, those are the two people to start with :). From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Jan 7 12:22:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model I Computers In-Reply-To: <20030107181517.42840.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030107180000.20596.42023.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3E1B29B5.7993.3A4B8C19@localhost> > The presence or lack of a numeric keypad on a Model I > is not a good indicator of whether it's Level I basic > or not. > I have a Model I (My original from 1979) which came > without a keypad, and was a Level I computer, but > which I quickly upgraded to a Level II computer. > The only real way to tell is to power the unit up. Err... I wasn't talking about Level I/II Basic, but rather if it is a L1 M1, or L2 M1, read, the revised version. The most notable difference is the keyboard. Of course, most L1M1s with L1 Basic where later upgraded to have L2 Basic. Still the fact is that someone intended to spend an awfull high amount of money on a L2M1. > P.S.: I'm looking for a working LNW-80 Computer. A > model II would be preferred, but a Model I would be > OK. If anyone has one they'd like to sell, please let > me know.. :) Who doesn't ? Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Tue Jan 7 12:25:08 2003 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: Source for TI Silent 700 thermal paper? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <64832.213.250.80.73.1041964106.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Brian Chase said: > Does anyone know of a good source for rolls of thermal paper which > are appropriately sized for use in a TI Silent 700 Data Terminal? > I don't know what size paper you have in USA but over here I just went to the stationary shop and bought a pile of "standard" thermal fax paper. The rolls were just right. It's a disappearing breed of paper, I think I ought to stock up on it a bit. Oh yes, the paper works just fine. It's a lovely terminal btw. -- jht From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Jan 7 12:29:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: MPU-401 In-Reply-To: References: <3E1B123C.15581.39EFDA29@localhost> Message-ID: <3E1B2B4F.31659.3A51CC71@localhost> > > > I have the interface box for one of these, but not the card. Anyone know > > > where I can get one? It's the 8-bit XT MIDI card. > > Ouch ... I have the card, and would love to get the box:) > > Back in the old days, it was the best sound add on for > > a game PC ... Well, I payed some 500 Bucks. > No doubt. I'm actually building a game PC right now. Probably with a > 486DX-33. For old games I have lying around. Most of these games support > the MPU-401 and MT-32. Speaking of which. What is an MT-32 like compared > to the MPU-401? I've never seen one. No idea. Your Idea sounds great, although I'd take a DX2. Back then my gaming machine was a DX-50 (a real 50, no DX2-50 :), and it worked great for all games. A DX2-66 is the closest you can get. Of course there's always an AMD 5x86-160 ... Eventualy the fastest 486 of all times. I had one overclocked to 200 MHz in a 50 MHz Board. In fact, when thinking about building a low speed Game machine for early 90s games, I would go for a 60-200 MHz Pentium, or at least a PCI bus 486. > > P.S.: I know a guy who has still one or two new in box, > > but he still belives that they are worth money. > *sigh* He'll call me tonight (I just talked to his sister). Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Jan 7 12:36:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: What am I missing here? In-Reply-To: <3E1B1ADD.6FF0CEEC@rain.org> Message-ID: <3E1B2D0A.3454.3A588F66@localhost> > > So how is life in sunni SoCal ? We just got first snow > > yesterday. > It is wonderful ... sunny, about 75 degrees F (real temperature :) ), > and it is expected to be that way through the weekend. Haven't we agreed to use serious units, no kids stuff ? So give me a C ! > > P.S.: I might be over in Ca in early Feb. > BTW, both Eric Smith and Wayne Smith will have copies of the IBM 5100 > tapes that include PATCH, GAMES, General Ledger, Accounts Payable, > Payroll, and Accounts Receiveable/Invoicing. I am also keeping a set for > myself; better to have them spread around in case a set gets destroyed > somehow. I can't speak for either Eric or Wayne, but if anyone on the > listserver needs copies, those are the two people to start with :). Good to know, until I find one. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Jan 7 12:36:36 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: Source for TI Silent 700 thermal paper? In-Reply-To: <64832.213.250.80.73.1041964106.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> References: Message-ID: <3E1B2D0A.28845.3A588F47@localhost> > > Does anyone know of a good source for rolls of thermal paper which > > are appropriately sized for use in a TI Silent 700 Data Terminal? > I don't know what size paper you have in USA but over here I just > went to the stationary shop and bought a pile of "standard" > thermal fax paper. The rolls were just right. Exactly the same I do. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Jan 7 12:36:43 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: Where To Sell? In-Reply-To: <200301071215_MC3-1-22B3-2C09@compuserve.com> Message-ID: Alternately, you could put the wife up on eBay. :) g. On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, ED CHIODO wrote: > 7-Jan-03 > > All - > > Have you any good experiences at selling your surplus (mostly DEC) gear? > The wife has said 'enough' to a basement full of antiques! > > > Ed Chiodo > From dbwood at kc.rr.com Tue Jan 7 12:38:01 2003 From: dbwood at kc.rr.com (Douglas Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10 / AT References: <3E1886E9.DB6B6F6C@wi.rr.com> Message-ID: <07d701c2b67c$4e79cbc0$6401a8c0@kc.rr.com> Are you giving it away? What would shipping cost to Leavenworth, KS.? Thanks. Douglas Wood Software Engineer dbwood@kc.rr.com ICQ#: 143841506 Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC http://epicis.piclist.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Roberts" To: Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 1:26 PM Subject: Re: Epson QX-10 / AT > Valdocs was a office suite, word processing, spreadsheet and database group unique to the Epson QX-10 and QX-16 computers. It also ran CPM. and add in board was available that allowed Dos to also be run on the machine. Machine had two voice coil > floppydrives that could be configred to many of the early floppy format modes of other computers. I have several including original instruction manuals and many programs for both CPM and early DOS. The computer did not have a hard drive (although an addon > was available) and was limited to 360 5 1/4 disks. > Is anyone interested? > Bill > > -- > William F. Roberts > 35081 West Fairview Road > Oconomowoc, WI, 53066 > wroberts@wi.rr.com From quapla at xs4all.nl Tue Jan 7 12:39:00 2003 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: Chip Upgrades for 11/23 (was Re: 11/03 system on eBay sold) References: from "2003 06:37:46 PM" <200301070008.h0708m506909@shell1.aracnet.com> <200301071527.KAA109860720@shell.TheWorld.com> <3E1B1A35.10603@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <3E1B1DF1.BD9A8DE2@xs4all.nl> Cobol is the only language afaik which does use it. My original reply was just to find out how unusual this chip is, as I have one here. It is currently stuck on an 11/24 board, occupying socket 4 & 5. Ed Andreas Freiherr wrote: > > Yes, there sure was a CIS chip for the 11/23[+]. And I am still looking > for one to upgrade one of mine. I do have the FPF-11 floating point > processor board that alternately connects to the socket for the FIS > chip, I have a FIS chip in another processor board, but the sockets for > CIS are still vacant in both. > > Once I get it / Should I ever get it, which languages could make use of > it? - Assembler, of course, and COBOL, I think? > > Megan wrote: > > I don't believe that there ever was a CIS chip for the 11/03,02 > > chipset. There was one for the 11/23[+]... > > -- > Andreas Freiherr > Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany > http://www.vishay.com -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn onbetrouwbaar quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.groenenberg.net | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Wie mij te na komt zal het weten. '97 TL1000S | From alhartman at yahoo.com Tue Jan 7 12:47:00 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #359 - 58 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030107083101.12218.2888.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030107184957.10732.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> > From: "Steven N. Hirsch" > Subject: Any Corvus collectors out there? > > Hi, > > I'm new to this list and wondering how many Corvus > collectors are out there. Hi, I'm not exactly a Corvus collector, but I used to work for Lawrence S. Epstein Associates, LTD., and we were the East Coast Distributor for Corvus Equipment for quite awhile... And I have a couple of drives and various odds and ends taking up space in a closet... I have some IBM XT Omninet Adapters, I think a couple of older Apple II adapters, Some Mirror Boards, an "H" series drive, and an old Apple II only OmniDrive. I also have manuals and software, maybe even a constellation adapter too.. Those were the days... When a 70mb HDD sold for $8000.00... :) Al __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From emu at ecubics.com Tue Jan 7 12:48:00 2003 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: Weather in CA, Vector Displays, was Re: What am I missing here? References: <200301071818.KAA03746@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3E1B235F.6050007@ecubics.com> Cameron Kaiser wrote: >>So how is life in sunni SoCal ? We just got first snow >>yesterday. > > > Windy. There was a lot of damage done in the Riverside and east Los Angeles > areas. > > Last weekend in San Diego it really was sunny ... I think it was in the 70s :-) > and it's pretty close today. Another brutal Southern California winter ;-) I was last weekend in SF, went to Fisherman Wharf to the "mechanical museum". Was enjoying playing Battle Zone and others again. Those vector displays are still VERY ENJOYABLE ;-) cheers From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Jan 7 12:58:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: Phonemark "Quick Data Drive" - info?, also WTD Commodore 15xx drive, info. Message-ID: <005701c2b67f$2d2e3520$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Hi all, A while ago I bought a rather unusual C64/VIC20 add-on - a "Quick Data Drive", presumably made by a company called Phonemark. After thumbing through the manual I found a few photos of the cartridges. From what I can gather, it's an early "stringy floppy" device that uses a cartridge filled with tape that's set in a continuous loop. The cartridges in the photos carry the branding "Entrepo". Now, the problem is, the manual mentions a "Master QOS Wafer" that contains the operating system for the drive - my drive is missing this. Also, I don't have any blank cartridges/wafers. For curiosity's sake, I removed the cover and noticed that it uses a BSR (what ever happened to them?) mechanism. After a quick search online, I found out that the Rotronics Wafadrive (sp?) uses a very similar, if not identical type of cartridge. Does anyone have a spare QOS cartridge and/or a few blanks they feel like parting with? I'm also trying to track down a Commodore 15xx disk drive - 5.25", 3.5", MFM, GCR, whatever, as long as it uses the Commodore serial bus. I'm also after any information on the Commodore serial disk drive interface. Ideally I'd like to use one of these drives for data storage. I was going to use a WesternDigital controller or a Super I/O chip and a floppy drive, but no-one seems to sell either "raw" FDCs or Super I/O ICs... MFM, GCR, I don't give a damn how it records the data on the disk. I've got a Mitsubishi 3.5" drive lying around gathering dust and I want to get it to do something useful! Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Jan 7 13:08:01 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000TX and 1400LT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Jan 2003 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > There's also ELKS. http://www.elks.ecs.soton.ac.uk/ Which doesn't seem to be in DNS anymore. Alternatively try: http://elks.sourceforge.net/ -brian. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Jan 7 13:15:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: Source for TI Silent 700 thermal paper? In-Reply-To: <64832.213.250.80.73.1041964106.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Jarkko Teppo wrote: > I don't know what size paper you have in USA but over here I just > went to the stationary shop and bought a pile of "standard" > thermal fax paper. The rolls were just right. Ah thanks. I'd not even thought of that. My google searches only brought up suppliers of narror thermal receipt paper. The paper holder is 8.5in across; that's the width of US Letter sized paper. Searching for "thermal fax paper" has returned a number of hits for suppliers. -brian. From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jan 7 13:20:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: Where To Sell? In-Reply-To: <200301071215_MC3-1-22B3-2C09@compuserve.com> Message-ID: >Have you any good experiences at selling your surplus (mostly DEC) gear? >The wife has said 'enough' to a basement full of antiques! You might want to post a list of what you're looking to get rid of, what you're looking to get for it, and roughly where your located (a lot of us prefer to be able to pick up semi-locally, where semi-locally can be a couple of states). This list probably has the largest concentration of DEC collectors around, and there are at least a couple of dealers that lurk here. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jan 7 13:33:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: Chip Upgrades for 11/23+ In-Reply-To: <3E1B1DF1.BD9A8DE2@xs4all.nl> References: from "2003 06:37:46 PM" <200301070008.h0708m506909@shell1.aracnet.com> <200301071527.KAA109860720@shell.TheWorld.com> <3E1B1A35.10603@Vishay.com> Message-ID: >Cobol is the only language afaik which does use it. >My original reply was just to find out how unusual this chip is, as I have >one here. It is currently stuck on an 11/24 board, occupying socket 4 & 5. So, to use that fully loaded /23+ board I've got with all the options, I need to use Cobol... I assume at least I can use the FIS from languages other than Cobol :^) Of course I'd have thought both the CIS and FIS could be used from Macro-11. Maybe I'll just stick with the /73, rather than playing with the /23+ I've slowly been getting up and running. The /73 is in a decked out BA123, the /23+ is in a semi-decked out BA23, and I really should stick the back BA23 in storage as we need the room. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From avickers at solutionengineers.com Tue Jan 7 13:47:01 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: Phonemark "Quick Data Drive" - info?, also WTD Commodore 15xx drive, info. In-Reply-To: <005701c2b67f$2d2e3520$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030107193854.021c4660@slave> At 19:01 07/01/2003, philpem@dsl.pipex.com wrote: >Hi all, > A while ago I bought a rather unusual C64/VIC20 add-on - a "Quick Data >Drive", presumably made by a company called Phonemark. ... Does anyone have >a spare QOS cartridge and/or a few blanks they feel like parting with? I've got a drive somewhere around here, and maybe a tape or two, I can't really remember. However, I got two of them in a "10kg box of goodies" bought from Bull Electrical (http://www.bullnet.co.uk/shops/test/Default.htm). I took one of them apart, because at that time I didn't recognise the connector. I had vague notions of using the box for something, but couldn't be bothered in the end. I chucked that one out. Then, a couple of years ago, I noticed the price they were selling on eBay for, and cursed... If I can find the bits, you can have 'em for free - the box shows severe water damage, so I've no idea what the drive itself is like. I don't think I have a master cartridge either. I'd recommend you call Bull and see if they can find any for you, chances are you'll get loads for a song if they haven't got rid of them all already. >I'm also trying to track down a Commodore 15xx disk drive - 5.25", 3.5", >MFM, GCR, whatever, as long as it uses the Commodore serial bus. eBay if you don't mind paying, otherwise check out garage sales & the like. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From red at bears.org Tue Jan 7 14:12:00 2003 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: Selling an old IBM AS400/9404 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Will Jennings wrote: > on the RISC machines the license is implicitly transferred with the > machine, I believe it even says you MUST transfer the license and s/w > with the machine... I don't know about that, but a point of clarification, it's not the RISC machines that include the license, it's OS/400 V4. Some earlier RISC machines will run V3 and can NOT be transferred. ok r. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 7 14:19:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: 6502 NOP tester (was Re: New and reading the mail) In-Reply-To: <200301071730.JAA23246@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <20030107202144.40507.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Cameron Kaiser wrote: I wrote: > > You can also build a NOP generator (use a second CPU chip) by bending > > the appropriate data bus leads up and hardwiring the databus to the > > NOP instruction (0xEA?) - You can then use a logic analyzer to monitor > > the address bus for stuck bits and the select lines on the MSI chips > > to see that they respond at the appropriate times. > > Hey, that's pretty slick! Yes, $ea is NOP on the 6502. Thanks. I wasn't home and that was from memory. I have one or two of these in a parts drawer that I bought from the local C= dealer when they went out of business. *rummage* *rummage* Here they are! Pins 29, 31 and 33 are bent up and connected to pin 21, and pins 26, 27, 28 30 and 32 are bent up and connected to pin 8. I recommend mounting the results in a machined-pin socket. One of the two I have here has pin 1 broken off, no doubt from too many rough deployments. I also recommend not using one in an Apple II or any design where *reading* memory locations can cause interesting side effects. In Commodore hardware, you have to *write* to I/O registers to make stuff happen; not so with the Apple. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Jan 7 14:24:01 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: Phonemark "Quick Data Drive" - info?, also WTD Commodore 15xx drive, info. References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030107193854.021c4660@slave> Message-ID: <007901c2b68b$1b30fd60$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Adrian Vickers wrote: > I've got a drive somewhere around here, and maybe a tape or two, I > can't really remember. However, I got two of them in a "10kg box of > goodies" bought from Bull Electrical > (http://www.bullnet.co.uk/shops/test/Default.htm). I took one of them > apart, because at that time I didn't recognise the connector. I had > vague notions of using the box for something, but couldn't be > bothered in the end. I chucked that one out. Then, a couple of years > ago, I noticed the price they were selling on eBay for, and cursed... Can someone here please enlighten me? How much are these things going for on Ebay? I'm thinking "L@@K!!! R@R3 !!! QUICKDATA DRIVE C64 **NIB**" :-) > If I can find the bits, you can have 'em for free - the box shows > severe water damage, so I've no idea what the drive itself is like. I > don't think I have a master cartridge either. I'd recommend you call > Bull and see if they can find any for you, chances are you'll get > loads for a song if they haven't got rid of them all already. I'll try them, thanks. I got mine from Greenweld, perhaps they've got some spare wafers in stock... >> I'm also trying to track down a Commodore 15xx disk drive - 5.25", >> 3.5", MFM, GCR, whatever, as long as it uses the Commodore serial >> bus. > eBay if you don't mind paying, otherwise check out garage sales & the > like. I saw one at a hamfest - unfortunately She Who Must Be Obeyed walked up behind me and said "If you buy that piece of junk, you and your 'find' are sleeping outside." Grr... Two quid for a C64, tons of disks (not that I need them - IIRC I've got fifty of 'em) and a 1541. Well, it was a murky brown colour with a black drive faceplate and it was 5.25", so I guessed it was a 1541. Problem was, the seller would only sell it if I took *all* of it, C64, drive, disks, the lot. BTW, last time I saw a C64 at a car boot sale was two years ago. Can someone suggest a car boot sale either in or within, say, 20 miles of Leeds, England? I've tried the car boot sale that's usually held on Cross Green Trading Estate weekly (every Sunday, 9AM->noon IIRC) - total white elephant. Perhaps someone here has a 1541 or a 1571 they want rid of (hint hint), or perhaps a few (two or three) WesternDigital WD177x series drive controllers? Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From kth at srv.net Tue Jan 7 14:40:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: Chip Upgrades for 11/23 (was Re: 11/03 system on eBay sold) References: from "2003 06:37:46 PM" <200301070008.h0708m506909@shell1.aracnet.com> <200301071527.KAA109860720@shell.TheWorld.com> <3E1B1A35.10603@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <3E1B4065.2030101@srv.net> Andreas Freiherr wrote: > > Yes, there sure was a CIS chip for the 11/23[+]. And I am still > looking for one to upgrade one of mine. I do have the FPF-11 floating > point processor board that alternately connects to the socket for the > FIS chip, I have a FIS chip in another processor board, but the > sockets for CIS are still vacant in both. > > Once I get it / Should I ever get it, which languages could make use > of it? - Assembler, of course, and COBOL, I think? DIBOL required it, IIRC. > > Megan wrote: > >> I don't believe that there ever was a CIS chip for the 11/03,02 >> chipset. There was one for the 11/23[+]... > From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Tue Jan 7 15:00:01 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: Phonemark "Quick Data Drive" - info?, also WTD Commodore 15xx drive, info. Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C893@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Philip, > type of cartridge. Does anyone have a spare QOS cartridge and/or a few > blanks they feel like parting with? I believe I have some of that stuff tucked away... I *did* have some of the Entrepo drives. And since I'm keeping my Commodore stuff around for my son (who currently is almost a year old, so, yes, he's gonna laugh his head of when I show him that "computer"..) I can probably miss some of the cartridges.. > I'm also trying to track down a Commodore 15xx disk drive > - 5.25", 3.5", MFM, GCR, whatever, as long as it uses the Got those, but wanna hang on to them. There *is* a project out there which lets you connect a C64/128 to your PC's parallel port, and you can then run a program on the PC which emulates N CBM 15xx drives.. you can mount/unmount disk images, and whatnot. I'll find the name of it. --fred From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Tue Jan 7 15:03:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: Phonemark "Quick Data Drive" - info?, also WTD Commodore 15xx drive, info. Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C894@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > I saw one at a hamfest - unfortunately She Who Must Be Obeyed > walked up behind me and said "If you buy that piece of junk, > you and your 'find' are sleeping outside." That should not be a problem, methinks. Make sure you use a double-layer floor in the tent (available from any military outlet) *and* properly wire the place for AC, so you can play with the puters. Problem fixed. :) --fred From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Jan 7 15:03:08 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:08 2005 Subject: VAXserver 3100 In-Reply-To: <20030106182421.52ca9152.jwb@paravolve.net>; from jwb@paravolve.net on Tue, Jan 07, 2003 at 00:24:21 CET References: <20030106182421.52ca9152.jwb@paravolve.net> Message-ID: <20030107192306.E48831@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.01.07 00:24 James W. Brinkerhoff wrote: > The VaxServer 3100 looks to be mostly complete and gives me some beeps > if I turn it on.. I wanna try and get the 3100 to a running state > (or at least determine if its worth it) ... Anyone have any pointers > to information about this specific model? Get the thing going and do a show conf show ver at the bootprompt. It should tell you the CPU type ("KAsomthing"). Have a look at the archive for the MMJ console port pinout or google for MMJ and VAX. VAXstation 4100??? I don't know about such a thing. There are only the VAXstation 4000-VLC, 4000-60 and 4000-9x. Perhaps you have a VAX / MicroVAX 4000-100? If yes you are the owner of one of the fastetst desktop VAXen ever made. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Tue Jan 7 15:13:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:09 2005 Subject: VAXserver 3100 Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C895@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> A VAXserver 3100 is usually the "high" model, with space for 2 5.25" devices in the lower drive bay (TZ30 and RRD42 come to mind), and then up to three 3.5" SCSI disks in the upper bay. It was often equipped with one to three RZ25-E's (400M, Seagate ST1480). The CPU is KA41 mostly; there are some KA42's out there, too. Console is usually on MMJ port 1, set to 9600/8/N/1. It *can* be on one of the other ports - dont ask me why, but I have seen several. :) These are good, reliable machines. They are a lil on the power-hungry side, but damn, they never give up. I have two, one running Ultrix 4.5, and one running OpenBSD 3.2. --fred From avickers at solutionengineers.com Tue Jan 7 15:14:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:09 2005 Subject: Phonemark "Quick Data Drive" - info?, also WTD Commodore 15xx drive, info. In-Reply-To: <007901c2b68b$1b30fd60$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030107193854.021c4660@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030107210735.00b56a68@slave> At 20:26 07/01/2003, Philip Pemberton wrote: >Can someone here please enlighten me? How much are these things going for on >Ebay? Well, 3 have sold in the last calendar month for between ?8.50 & ?10. Then 2 batches of 4 for circa 8.50 (so around 2.12 quid each). The first one I saw going through eBay notched up about ?35. >I'm thinking "L@@K!!! R@R3 !!! QUICKDATA DRIVE C64 **NIB**" :-) Hmmm. NIB I can legitimately put (it's still wrapped in its plastic inner), but the box is shafted... >I'll try them, thanks. I got mine from Greenweld, perhaps they've got some >spare wafers in stock... I suspect most of the eBay ones have come from other purchasors of Bull's Box'o'Junk^wGoodies, BICBW. > > eBay if you don't mind paying, otherwise check out garage sales & the > > like. >I saw one at a hamfest - unfortunately She Who Must Be Obeyed walked up >behind me and said "If you buy that piece of junk, you and your 'find' are >sleeping outside." Grr... You could have offered her in part exchange.... :) >Two quid for a C64, tons of disks (not that I need >them - IIRC I've got fifty of 'em) and a 1541. Well, it was a murky brown >colour with a black drive faceplate and it was 5.25", so I guessed it was a >1541. Problem was, the seller would only sell it if I took *all* of it, C64, >drive, disks, the lot. One of these? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11991&item=2085830908 Mind you, there's no way I'd pay 23 quid for one... >BTW, last time I saw a C64 at a car boot sale was two years ago. Can someone >suggest a car boot sale either in or within, say, 20 miles of Leeds, >England? I've tried the car boot sale that's usually held on Cross Green >Trading Estate weekly (every Sunday, 9AM->noon IIRC) - total white elephant. Dunno about Leeds. The best I've been to is Hackney market (N. London, natch). And all they had in the classic comp range was one mucky but servicable C64C (?1), and a Mac LC ii (which I wish I'd bought, even though it was just lying in some mud). -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From mbg at TheWorld.com Tue Jan 7 15:25:00 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:09 2005 Subject: Chip Upgrades for 11/23 (was Re: 11/03 system on eBay sold) References: from "2003 06:37:46 PM" <200301070008.h0708m506909@shell1.aracnet.com> <200301071527.KAA109860720@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <200301072127.QAA109555542@shell.TheWorld.com> >Yes, there sure was a CIS chip for the 11/23[+]. And I am still looking I know... I have one (maybe two) KDF11-B boards with the CIS chip. >for one to upgrade one of mine. I do have the FPF-11 floating point >processor board that alternately connects to the socket for the FIS >chip, I have a FIS chip in another processor board, but the sockets for >CIS are still vacant in both. It was my understanding that the EIS/FIS chip is only usable with the 11/03 (11/2, PDT) machines (and the PDT requires the dual microm in order to make space for it). The CIS chip is a dual-wide chip... it spans two chip spaces on the 11/23 and 11/23+ boards. >Once I get it / Should I ever get it, which languages could make use of >it? - Assembler, of course, and COBOL, I think? You can always do it in assembler. As for cobol or other layered products, you probably have to use a version which has been specifically built to use those instructions (or can detect their availability on the fly and use them). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | | | | "this space | (s/ at /@/) | | unavoidably left blank" | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at TheWorld.com Tue Jan 7 15:29:00 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:09 2005 Subject: Chip Upgrades for 11/23 (was Re: 11/03 system on eBay sold) References: from "2003 06:37:46 PM" <200301070008.h0708m506909@shell1.aracnet.com> <200301071527.KAA109860720@shell.TheWorld.com> <3E1B1A35.10603@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <200301072132.QAA108813854@shell.TheWorld.com> >Cobol is the only language afaik which does use it. Thanks for clearing that up... I've not used cobol on the -11. I figured it was like other optional instruction sets with regards to layered products... like Basic, which comes in the NHD (no hardware), EIS (for machines with EIS) and FPU (for machines with FPU). The problem is when you run the EIS or FPU version on a machine which doesn't have the required hardware... it doesn't work. NHD will work everywhere since the code it generates uses the basic pdp-11 instruction set. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | | | | "this space | (s/ at /@/) | | unavoidably left blank" | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jan 7 15:39:00 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:09 2005 Subject: What am I missing here? In-Reply-To: <3E1B23ED.13026.3A34F3DC@localhost> References: <3E1B12A2.9EDCEA06@rain.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030107133852.00a1e8a0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 07:01 PM 1/7/03 +0100, you wrote: >So how is life in sunni SoCal ? We just got first snow >yesterday. Right now its 1:30 PM, Sunny, a bit hot, maybe 78 degrees, air is dry as the desert, and Sunday night the wind was so strong power lines and telephone poles blew over, so my son is getting an extra 3 days of xmas vacation before his school can reopen. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Jan 7 15:46:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:09 2005 Subject: Phonemark "Quick Data Drive" - info?, also WTD Commodore 15xx drive, info. References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030107193854.021c4660@slave> <5.1.0.14.2.20030107210735.00b56a68@slave> Message-ID: <008d01c2b696$95ff95a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Adrian Vickers wrote: >> Can someone here please enlighten me? How much are these things >> going for on Ebay? > Well, 3 have sold in the last calendar month for between #8.50 & #10. > Then 2 batches of 4 for circa 8.50 (so around 2.12 quid each). The > first one I saw going through eBay notched up about #35. Hmm... Might be worth ringing Gweld, ordering ten of them, then auctioning them off :) >> I'll try them, thanks. I got mine from Greenweld, perhaps they've >> got some spare wafers in stock... > I suspect most of the eBay ones have come from other purchasors of > Bull's Box'o'Junk^wGoodies, BICBW. I *was* going to buy one of Bull's "Five 2.3Ah 12V Yuasa Lead Acid batteries for fifteen quid" boxes but then I noticed that postage would be ?5.50 and there was no guarantee that the batteries would even work... >>> eBay if you don't mind paying, otherwise check out garage sales & >>> the like. >> I saw one at a hamfest - unfortunately She Who Must Be Obeyed walked >> up behind me and said "If you buy that piece of junk, you and your >> 'find' are sleeping outside." Grr... > You could have offered her in part exchange.... :) LOL! >> Two quid for a C64, tons of disks (not that I need >> them - IIRC I've got fifty of 'em) and a 1541. Well, it was a murky >> brown colour with a black drive faceplate and it was 5.25", so I >> guessed it was a 1541. Problem was, the seller would only sell it if >> I took *all* of it, C64, drive, disks, the lot. > One of these? > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11991&item=20858309 08 That's it! That's the one! > Mind you, there's no way I'd pay 23 quid for one... Same here... ?10 maybe, ?20 with a LOT of thought, but not ?23... >> BTW, last time I saw a C64 at a car boot sale was two years ago. Can >> someone suggest a car boot sale either in or within, say, 20 miles >> of Leeds, England? I've tried the car boot sale that's usually held >> on Cross Green Trading Estate weekly (every Sunday, 9AM->noon IIRC) >> - total white elephant. > Dunno about Leeds. The best I've been to is Hackney market (N. London, > natch). And all they had in the classic comp range was one mucky but > servicable C64C (#1), and a Mac LC ii (which I wish I'd bought, even > though it was just lying in some mud). That's about the best I've seen around here, too. A Sinclair Spectrum +2 for ?45 - just the machine. No thanks. I still need to track down a lightgun and the games pack for my +2A. My brother pulled apart the lightgun and the tapes when I was six. I got the +2A as a birthday present and I'd really like to complete it. A disk drive and controller would be nice, too. Right now, I need to get the Jupiter Ace fixed, my silly little Samsung SyncMaster3 replaced (I've got my eyes on a Sony CPD-E215) and my EPROM eraser replaced. In that order. The EPROM eraser's problem? It's got a very minor light leak. i.e. the manufacturer didn't see any reason to put any seals around the top cover. So it leaks UV from two gaps in the casing and also has a white time setting control that glows blue when the eraser's running... Can someone suggest a fix for this or is my eraser a junker? The damn thing cost me ?70 from Maplin Electronics (special order, too)... Are the Magenta EPROM eraser kits any good? Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Jan 7 16:25:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:09 2005 Subject: Chip Upgrades for 11/23 (was Re: 11/03 system on eBay sold) In-Reply-To: <3E1B1A35.10603@Vishay.com> References: <200301070008.h0708m506909@shell1.aracnet.com> <200301071527.KAA109860720@shell.TheWorld.com> <3E1B1A35.10603@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <1246.4.20.168.104.1041978485.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Andreas.Freiherr@Vishay.com wrote: > Yes, there sure was a CIS chip for the 11/23[+]. And I am still looking > for one to upgrade one of mine. [...] > Once I get it / Should I ever get it, which languages could make use of > it? - Assembler, of course, and COBOL, I think? DIBOL? Was there an actual COBOL for the 11? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 7 16:40:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:09 2005 Subject: Reading HP ROMS (was : HP Integral?) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030107092226.522fcf76@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Jan 7, 3 09:22:26 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 689 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030107/13510bba/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 7 16:40:13 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:09 2005 Subject: Phonemark "Quick Data Drive" - info?, also WTD Commodore 15xx drive, info. In-Reply-To: <005701c2b67f$2d2e3520$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> from "Philip Pemberton" at Jan 7, 3 07:01:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 804 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030107/58a8db0f/attachment.ksh From allain at panix.com Tue Jan 7 16:43:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:09 2005 Subject: DMCA etc. Message-ID: <00e801c2b69e$80948420$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> For those of you nutz about the current efforts to make digital copyrights overly restrictive, here's a FUN place to visit, as regards to this problem. "END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR VIEWING ILLEGAL ART EXHIBIT" http://www.illegal-art.org/contract.html If you allow popups, go here instead and it will pop the above. http://www.illegal-art.org John A. From bshannon at tiac.net Tue Jan 7 17:11:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:09 2005 Subject: Config info on HP1000 memory? References: <20030103194106.N49330-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <3E1B6012.3010808@tiac.net> I've got multiple 256KW boards working. Do you need the switch configurations?? James Willing wrote: >On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Glen S wrote: > >>I have a copy of the manual 5955-4311 / Installation and Service Manual / >>High Performance Memory Systems. It covers the 2102E and 2102H Memory >>Controllers and the 12741A, 12746H, 12747H, 12779H, and 12780H Memory >>Modules. (But not the 12749H). >> > >Well... I've got both 12746H and 12749H boards, so it would be step in the >right direction. > >>My 2117F is configured with a 2101E Memory Controller, (3x) 12749H 256KW >>Memory Modules, a 12371A Memory Expansion Module, and a 12892B Memory >>Protect Module. I can pull the boards out of my system and tell you how the >>dip switches are set if that helps. >> > >That would work too (if not too much trouble). I think I've only got two >'real' HP 12749H boards and two 'Standard Memories' 256kw boards (anyone >grok the switches on THOSE critters), but if three boards work, then I >would hope two would as well... > >Thanks; >-jim >--- >jimw@agora.rdrop.com >The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030107/4a73187c/attachment.html From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jan 7 17:11:24 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:09 2005 Subject: Chip Upgrades for 11/23 (was Re: 11/03 system on eBay sold) In-Reply-To: from "Eric Smith" at Jan 07, 2003 02:28:05 PM Message-ID: <200301072314.h07NEH027153@shell1.aracnet.com> > DIBOL? Was there an actual COBOL for the 11? Cobol-11 and Cobol 81 ran on at least RSTS/E and RSX-11, I'm not sure if there were versions for RT-11, but I suspect there was, and I'm pretty sure DIBOL was available for RT-11. Zane From avickers at solutionengineers.com Tue Jan 7 17:14:01 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:09 2005 Subject: Phonemark "Quick Data Drive" - info?, also WTD Commodore 15xx drive, info. In-Reply-To: <008d01c2b696$95ff95a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030107193854.021c4660@slave> <5.1.0.14.2.20030107210735.00b56a68@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030107230157.00b97300@slave> At 21:48 07/01/2003, you wrote: >Adrian Vickers wrote: > >> Can someone here please enlighten me? How much are these things > >> going for on Ebay? > > Well, 3 have sold in the last calendar month for between #8.50 & #10. > > Then 2 batches of 4 for circa 8.50 (so around 2.12 quid each). The > > first one I saw going through eBay notched up about #35. >Hmm... Might be worth ringing Gweld, ordering ten of them, then auctioning >them off :) Indeed, although I doubt they'll reach those giddy heights again. Then again, stranger things have happened on eBay... >I *was* going to buy one of Bull's "Five 2.3Ah 12V Yuasa Lead Acid batteries >for fifteen quid" boxes but then I noticed that postage would be ?5.50 and >there was no guarantee that the batteries would even work... IMHO, never by 1/2hand LA batteries. It's just not worth the hassle, and they don't exactly cost squillions to buy brand new. [1541] > > Mind you, there's no way I'd pay 23 quid for one... >Same here... ?10 maybe, ?20 with a LOT of thought, but not ?23... ?10 is about as high as I'd go. There's another C64 auction on the go, sounds like the same sort of deal as your hamfest one ('64 & paraphenalia (sp?) + the 1541). Just don't tell the missus about the rest of it until it turns up "honest, I didn't realise...". Or just immediately re-auction everything except the d/drive. > > Dunno about Leeds. The best I've been to is Hackney market (N. London, > > natch). And all they had in the classic comp range was one mucky but > > servicable C64C (#1), and a Mac LC ii (which I wish I'd bought, even > > though it was just lying in some mud). >That's about the best I've seen around here, too. A Sinclair Spectrum +2 for >?45 - just the machine. No thanks. I still need to track down a lightgun and >the games pack for my +2A. My brother pulled apart the lightgun and the >tapes when I was six. I got the +2A as a birthday present and I'd really >like to complete it. A disk drive and controller would be nice, too. I picked up a disk i/f for the speccy a while ago (I can't even remember what it's called now, without trundling upstairs to look, and I CBA). I know it's not a Disciple or Multiface, so it's An Other One. Pretty nifty, though, and I especially like the interrupt button (ala Multiface). >Right now, I need to get the Jupiter Ace Drool. I've always wanted an Ace, also a Sord M5 (those two just because they look cool). Also a Sirius ACT 1 (with neat features like volume controlled from the almost-but-not-quite-standard keyboard, and those idiotic hard-sectored disks... It would set you back ?2,195 for a 128k machine with 1.2MB floppies in 1983. I'm not sure what that equates to if corrected for inflation. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Jan 7 17:27:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:09 2005 Subject: Chip Upgrades for 11/23 (was Re: 11/03 system on eBay sold) In-Reply-To: <200301072314.h07NEH027153@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200301072314.h07NEH027153@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > DIBOL? Was there an actual COBOL for the 11? > > Cobol-11 and Cobol 81 ran on at least RSTS/E and RSX-11, I'm not sure if The COBOL and FORTRAN compilers are present and active in my particular instance of RSX-11M+ on an 11/44. BASIC is also there. Cheers John From avickers at solutionengineers.com Tue Jan 7 17:27:59 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:09 2005 Subject: HP 98564 - what is it? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030107232815.00b6bc68@slave> As per subject; I can't find anything on Google which matches HP 98564... I'm wondering if it's a typo, as it claims to be a 9000 series (so, either a 9564, a 9856, a 9854 or a 9864 is my guess), but can anyone shed any light? Ta. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From Joel.E.Bradley at syntegra.com Tue Jan 7 17:29:00 2003 From: Joel.E.Bradley at syntegra.com (Bradley, Joel E -Syntegra US) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:09 2005 Subject: Phonemark "Quick Data Drive" - info?, also WTD Commodore 15xx drive, info. Message-ID: <41C19CA3B7CBD411B59200508B6CBBFF02E6683C@AH-Exchange-01.arh.cdc.com> Ahhh....I have one of those c64's, original monitor, drive, tape, etc. I also have the "Mach 5" fastloader cartridge..I often wondered if it was just full of RAM? I did like the shortcuts that were built in which saves on typing. I wonder..does anyone out there have a copy of the game "Airborne Ranger"? It was a superbly done game, and I remember how to play, but I have lost the manual. One problem is that the copy protection feature built-in was that you had to look up a medal ribbon that was located in the manual. Without that, it wouldn't let you play! Joel -----Original Message----- From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 4:33 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Phonemark "Quick Data Drive" - info?, also WTD Commodore 15xx drive, info. > > Hi all, > A while ago I bought a rather unusual C64/VIC20 add-on - a "Quick Data A lot of them turned up in the UK about 10 years ago -- the usual surplus places (Grenweld, and whatever J Bull called themselves at the time) had them. Nobody had the wafers (tapes) though... > Drive", presumably made by a company called Phonemark. After thumbing > through the manual I found a few photos of the cartridges. From what I can > gather, it's an early "stringy floppy" device that uses a cartridge filled I think it's much later than the Stringy Floppy. IIRC, it connects between the cassette drive and the C64. I think QOS was loaded at the same speed as a normal cassette load, and that QOS was similar in concept to the cassette 'turbo loaders' that were popular with the C64. -tony From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Jan 7 17:36:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:09 2005 Subject: Heathkit... References: Message-ID: <3E1B651C.6020609@iee.org> William Donzelli wrote: >>I've got a 1983 Heathkit catalog I was thinking about scanning each and every >>page and putting on my website. What's the best way to do this? I was >>thinking to scan every page in, resample to original size and save as .jpg so >>they can be read. Good enough? > > The first thing to do would be to get the OK from Heath... TIFF will be better for text than JPEG. Either option can then be wrapped up into a PDF file (which people seem to have much less trouble reading). If the pages contain continous tone colour images, then you'll need JPEG. If you have multicoloured text, then you have an issue (assuming you want to keep individual pages down below 50-250KB each). Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 7 17:38:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:09 2005 Subject: Phonemark "Quick Data Drive" - info?, also WTD Commodore In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030107230157.00b97300@slave> from "Adrian Vickers" at Jan 7, 3 11:15:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 907 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030107/19ab28bf/attachment.ksh From 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com Tue Jan 7 18:13:01 2003 From: 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com (No Junk Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:09 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000TX and 1400LT Message-ID: <686-55583@sneakemail.com> From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Jan 7 18:21:00 2003 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:09 2005 Subject: Phonemark "Quick Data Drive" - info?, also WTD Commodore 15xx drive, info. In-Reply-To: <41C19CA3B7CBD411B59200508B6CBBFF02E6683C@AH-Exchange-01.arh.cdc.com> Message-ID: <86E72CB2-229F-11D7-B6A1-000502512D39@calico.litterbox.com> As I recall, most fast loading schemes reprogrammed the Commodore serial interface chip (through which all the peripherals were interfaced) to run faster, as well as usually providing some sort of error correction. Commodore's serial interface design on the 64 was among the worst features of the machine. Before I got rid of my commodore 64 in 1990, I had an upgrade called a burst rom chip for it. This let me use the faster commodore 128 accessories at their full rated speed rather than in 64 emulation mode. This plus a 1581 3.5 inch floppy drive was like having a hard disk. :) I do recall that this upgrade broke compatibility with the tape drive, and I wonder if that wasn't the big reason all the interfacing was so slow, to preserve compatibility with the tape system? The speedup cartridges also probably downloaded software to the disk drive's brain. Remember that Commodore put 6502s in their drives as microcontrollers, with ram to hold their software, which was copied from the ROMs at boot time. This allowed you to send software that would replace that image in RAM to the drive and configure it to do pretty much what you wanted. Since the cartridge could now configure both sides of the serial link, setting up faster communication was easier. The irony, of course, is that in this age of FireWire and USB, we're starting to see the same kinds of peripherals - intelligent, programmable, and the computer need not understand how to operate the hardware directly. It would be amusing (though almost certainly not profitable) to come up with specs of how the C64 might work today. On Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 04:31 PM, Bradley, Joel E -Syntegra US wrote: > > Ahhh....I have one of those c64's, original monitor, drive, tape, etc. > I > also have the "Mach 5" fastloader cartridge..I often wondered if it > was just > full of RAM? I did like the shortcuts that were built in which saves > on > typing. > > I wonder..does anyone out there have a copy of the game "Airborne > Ranger"? > It was a superbly done game, and I remember how to play, but I have > lost the > manual. One problem is that the copy protection feature built-in was > that > you had to look up a medal ribbon that was located in the manual. > Without > that, it wouldn't let you play! > > Joel > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 4:33 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Phonemark "Quick Data Drive" - info?, also WTD Commodore > 15xx drive, info. > >> >> Hi all, >> A while ago I bought a rather unusual C64/VIC20 add-on - a "Quick >> Data > > A lot of them turned up in the UK about 10 years ago -- the usual > surplus > places (Grenweld, and whatever J Bull called themselves at the time) > had > them. Nobody had the wafers (tapes) though... > >> Drive", presumably made by a company called Phonemark. After thumbing >> through the manual I found a few photos of the cartridges. From what >> I can >> gather, it's an early "stringy floppy" device that uses a cartridge >> filled > > I think it's much later than the Stringy Floppy. > > IIRC, it connects between the cassette drive and the C64. I think QOS > was loaded at the same speed as a normal cassette load, and that QOS > was > similar in concept to the cassette 'turbo loaders' that were popular > with the C64. > > -tony > From 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com Tue Jan 7 18:33:00 2003 From: 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com (No Junk Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:09 2005 Subject: MPU-401 Message-ID: <1239-44175@sneakemail.com> > the MPU-401 and MT-32. Speaking of which. What is an MT-32 like > compared > to the MPU-401? I've never seen one. IIRC the MT-32 is a full length card. I'm fairly sure that back in the day I picked one up. Can't remember how. The music from it was superb, at least for the time -- probably still. I think I played a lot of Wing Commander with it. Later I got a Sound Canvas, which I on-sold to a musical friend of mine. I think he got the MT-32 too. He used to have a Gravis which I lusted after somewhat, particularly because of the Gravis-only demos of the time. I should see if he still has any of that old stuff. He's a bit of a pack rat simply because he's always too busy to sort anything out. Chris J. From rschaefe at gcfn.org Tue Jan 7 18:41:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:09 2005 Subject: Selling an old IBM AS400/9404 References: <003601c2b540$42773c00$6601a8c0@boyhowdy> <1509.4.20.168.104.1041909078.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <00b601c2b6af$26955c90$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Smith" To: Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 10:11 PM Subject: Re: Selling an old IBM AS400/9404 > > Even if you don't care about having a legitimate OS/400 license, if > you leave the machine powered off for too long, the service processor > will demand a password on startup, which you have to obtain from IBM. > And if you don't have a license, IBM won't give you a password. This is good to know! I've been wanting an AS/400, but there's no way I'd ever get around to cracking firmware passwords. Guess I'll have to be a little picky about which AS/400 I'll take. Bob From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jan 7 18:50:01 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:09 2005 Subject: TRS-80 fever on ebay?! In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030107090148.500f0822@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Joe wrote: > At 07:02 PM 1/6/03 -0500, you wrote: > > I have a '74 Barracuda that's being restored. The original 283 was tossed > > 283? When did they start putting Ford engines in Plymouths? I think you mean 318. MoPar built a 280-class V8, but I think it was a 273.... Very light, very quick, and way too limber. The block was *too* light. It would flex under load till the heads cracked. Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jan 7 18:58:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:09 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000TX and 1400LT In-Reply-To: <20030107164448.6317.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Doc Shipley wrote: > > What about the same model - 1000TX - with the original box & docs, > > keyboard, touchpad and a blazing Tandy internal 300bps modem? > > > > Assuming the answer is still "< shipping", is there a Unix that runs > > on that goober? > > Minix? Is it the 1000 that has the 186, or is that the 2000? Need > at lesat a 286 for Venix, IIRC, and a 386 for Linux and other "modern" > stuff. The instruction sets aren't all that different, but the MMUs > are. I think its an 8088.... /me shuffles off to check Minix's requirements.... Doc From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jan 7 19:00:00 2003 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:09 2005 Subject: Phonemark "Quick Data Drive" - info?, also WTD Commodore 15xx drive, info. In-Reply-To: <86E72CB2-229F-11D7-B6A1-000502512D39@calico.litterbox.com> from Jim Strickland at "Jan 7, 3 05:24:18 pm" Message-ID: <200301080113.RAA11282@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > As I recall, most fast loading schemes reprogrammed the Commodore > serial interface chip (through which all the peripherals were > interfaced) to run faster, as well as usually providing some sort of > error correction. Commodore's serial interface design on the 64 was > among the worst features of the machine. Being needlessly pedantic as always ;-) they didn't reprogram the interface "chip" but simply redirected calls to the serial routines in the Kernal ROM to themselves. The Epyx FastLoad is a typical device; it sets various vectored Kernal routines to call a 256-byte block of code that sits in the designated I/O area at $df00 (mapped in through some expansion port signal magic from the 8K cartridge ROM itself). This code banks in the main ROM, which overlays the $8000-9fff range, containing the actual loader. As has been pointed out, since all Commodore disk drives are intelligent peripherals, most loaders modify the OS on both sides of the serial bus link and the FastLoad is no exception. It uploads a small asynchronous loader to the disk drive that instead of the one serial bit I believe uses the ATN line as a 2-bit parallel line (this was common practice in many loaders) with a complementary loader on the 64 side, starts the serial transfer, and then cleans up after itself, switches back to the 256-byte stub which banks the cartridge ROM back out, and exits back to the calling program. I particularly like the FastLoad since it works on PAL and NTSC machines since the loader timing is not too fussy (believe me, there are many loaders that are really picky about this), and it is insanely cheap and plentiful. I own seven of them, and I don't think I paid more than $5 for any one of them. The one I use in my 128DCR has a switch controlling one of the I/O lines (I forget which) so that I can disable it easily and go to 128 mode without having to unplug it. > Before I got rid of my commodore 64 in 1990, I had an upgrade called a > burst rom chip for it. This let me use the faster commodore 128 > accessories at their full rated speed rather than in 64 emulation mode. > This plus a 1581 3.5 inch floppy drive was like having a hard disk. :) > I do recall that this upgrade broke compatibility with the tape drive, > and I wonder if that wasn't the big reason all the interfacing was so > slow, to preserve compatibility with the tape system? As I recall, it was not the tape that was the problem but early 64s that had some problem with the CIAs then in use. Rather than actually try to fix the problem, Commodore just crippled the serial bus protocol so it would still function (just much more slowly). Worse, the default serial bus protocol does not recover well from timing errors. Things like VIC-II DMA really gum the works up (this is why the Kernal turns the sprites off when you LOAD something, but it messes up *all* serial transfers -- try repeatedly reading the disk error channel with eight sprites showing on screen and it will randomly lock up [nothing a quick RUN-STOP/RESTORE can't cure though]). Certainly the C64 was capable of much more, but Commodore didn't get it right until the burst serial mode which came standard on the 128s, 1571s and 1581s, and was just breathtakingly fast (even by objective standards). > The irony, of course, is that in this age of FireWire and USB, we're > starting to see the same kinds of peripherals - intelligent, > programmable, and the computer need not understand how to operate the > hardware directly. It would be amusing (though almost certainly not > profitable) to come up with specs of how the C64 might work today. Well, on the C=one, we may actually see real USB on the clock ports, but it still comes with a standard IEC serial bus port! :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The only thing to fear is fearlessness -- R. E. M. ------------------------- From jac at clarkeorg.com Tue Jan 7 19:05:01 2003 From: jac at clarkeorg.com (John Clarke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:09 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" Message-ID: <00f501c2b6b2$c7f74460$6401a8c0@home> I have an original Compaq portable, that I had hoped to some day gut out and put in a "modern" motherboard etc, with an updated screen, but now it appears as if it may actually be of worth to someone as is. I even have the original receipt from Sears Business Center, where I bought it. Got an IBM proprinter also at the time, but that is now long gone. Anyway, is there some way to find out what the value of my Compaq is? Thanks to all who reply. John Clarke Philadelphia, PA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030107/8fbb2479/attachment.html From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jan 7 19:17:00 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:09 2005 Subject: MPU-401 In-Reply-To: <1239-44175@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030107171713.0323a200@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 11:36 AM 1/8/03 +1100, you wrote: > > the MPU-401 and MT-32. Speaking of which. What is an MT-32 like > > compared > > to the MPU-401? I've never seen one. > >IIRC the MT-32 is a full length card. I'm fairly sure that back in the >day I picked one up. Can't remember how. The music from it was superb, >at least for the time -- probably still. I The MT-32 is a external box by Roland, really a fancy drum syth. Since the smarts were basically a chip, that chip found its way to sound cards. Most modern motherboards and sound cards still offer MPU-401 and MT-32 emulation, even oddly enough if midi itself isn't supported. So what am I missing about this? From 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com Tue Jan 7 19:38:01 2003 From: 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com (No Junk Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:09 2005 Subject: MPU-401 Message-ID: <24915-40215@sneakemail.com> > >IIRC the MT-32 is a full length card. I'm fairly sure that back in > the > >day I picked one up. Can't remember how. The music from it was > superb, > >at least for the time -- probably still. I > > The MT-32 is a external box by Roland, really a fancy drum syth. > Since the > smarts were basically a chip, that chip found its way to sound cards. > Most > modern motherboards and sound cards still offer MPU-401 and MT-32 > emulation, even oddly enough if midi itself isn't supported. My mistake. A quick Google shows that I had a LAPC-1 -- an MT32 on a card. From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Jan 7 19:51:01 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:09 2005 Subject: MPU-401 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030107171713.0323a200@pop-server.socal.rr.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030107171713.0323a200@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Mike Ford wrote: > At 11:36 AM 1/8/03 +1100, you wrote: > > > the MPU-401 and MT-32. Speaking of which. What is an MT-32 like > > > compared > > > to the MPU-401? I've never seen one. > > > >IIRC the MT-32 is a full length card. I'm fairly sure that back in the [snippage] > > The MT-32 is a external box by Roland, really a fancy drum syth. Since the Ummm... the MT-32 I have in my studio is the old MC-20 chipset in a small (1/2 wide 1 RU) MIDI module w/no keyboard... it is a passable late-80s vintage synth, albeit the 'drums' are wonderfully crappy, if you're into musical sarcasm. It's going up on eBay, BTW, alnong with a bunch of other of my Vintage Keys... I don't make music that way any more, and I need Da Bux rather badly right now - so don't bitch me out *too* badly for it. I did sell Big Moog, but directly (no eBay) to a guy in Nasville who is loving it to death, so it's happier there than here, and that's what I've been basically living off of for the last few months. Unfortunately.... Oh well. And I suppose the MT-32 is sorta on-topic because it's more than 10 years old and defintely has a computer in it... Cheers John From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Jan 7 20:22:00 2003 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:09 2005 Subject: Fwd: H89, REMark, Sextant Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030107201219.02cc9d90@pc> >Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 20:40:05 -0500 >From: Chris Hall >To: jfoust@threedee.com >Subject: H89, REMark, Sextant > >Dear John, > >I have an old Heathkit H89 and many back issues of REMark and Sextant >magazines. I've got to get rid of them. Any interest or pointers to someone >who might have interst? > >Best regards, >Chris Hall From dholland at woh.rr.com Tue Jan 7 20:31:00 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:09 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000TX and 1400LT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1041993238.16905.3.camel@crusader> Minix will run on the 8088..(If my memory serves correctly) It'll run off of a 360K floppy if you feel like swapping disks.. (A couple of 1.44 3.5" floppies made a better system tho) I've got the white binder from Prentice-Hall around here somewhere if I felt like digging.. Too bad I don't think I've got anything that'll read those 360K floppies anymore.. (If they're still good.) :-) Ameoba required the 386 (as did Minix-386 - of course) David On Tue, 2003-01-07 at 20:00, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > > --- Doc Shipley wrote: > > > What about the same model - 1000TX - with the original box & docs, > > > keyboard, touchpad and a blazing Tandy internal 300bps modem? > > > > > > Assuming the answer is still "< shipping", is there a Unix that runs > > > on that goober? > > > > Minix? Is it the 1000 that has the 186, or is that the 2000? Need > > at lesat a 286 for Venix, IIRC, and a 386 for Linux and other "modern" > > stuff. The instruction sets aren't all that different, but the MMUs > > are. > > I think its an 8088.... > > /me shuffles off to check Minix's requirements.... > > Doc > From doug_jackson at citadel.com.au Tue Jan 7 20:41:00 2003 From: doug_jackson at citadel.com.au (Doug Jackson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000TX and 1400LT Message-ID: I have working 360K drives, and could image those disks for future reference. Doug Jackson Director, Managed Security Services Citadel Securix +61 (0)2 6290 9011 (Ph) +61 (0)2 6262 6152 (Fax) +61 (0)414 986 878 (Mobile) Web: Offices in Melbourne, Sydney, Canberra, Hong Kong, Boston > -----Original Message----- > From: David Holland [mailto:dholland@woh.rr.com] > Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:34 PM > To: Classic Computer Talk > Subject: Re: Tandy 1000TX and 1400LT > > > Minix will run on the 8088..(If my memory serves correctly) It'll run > off of a 360K floppy if you feel like swapping disks.. (A couple of > 1.44 3.5" floppies made a better system tho) > > I've got the white binder from Prentice-Hall around here > somewhere if I > felt like digging.. Too bad I don't think I've got anything > that'll read > those 360K floppies anymore.. (If they're still good.) :-) > > Ameoba required the 386 (as did Minix-386 - of course) > > David > > On Tue, 2003-01-07 at 20:00, Doc Shipley wrote: > > On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > > > > > --- Doc Shipley wrote: > > > > What about the same model - 1000TX - with the > original box & docs, > > > > keyboard, touchpad and a blazing Tandy internal 300bps modem? > > > > > > > > Assuming the answer is still "< shipping", is there a > Unix that runs > > > > on that goober? > > > > > > Minix? Is it the 1000 that has the 186, or is that the > 2000? Need > > > at lesat a 286 for Venix, IIRC, and a 386 for Linux and > other "modern" > > > stuff. The instruction sets aren't all that different, > but the MMUs > > > are. > > > > I think its an 8088.... > > > > /me shuffles off to check Minix's requirements.... > > > > Doc > > > > CAUTION - The information in this message may be of a privileged or confidential nature intended only for the use of the addressee or someone authorised to receive the addressee's e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster@citadel.com.au. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Citadel Securix. Feel free to visit the Citadel Securix website! Click below. http://www.citadel.com.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030107/164783da/attachment.html From jingber at ix.netcom.com Tue Jan 7 20:49:01 2003 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: MPU-401 In-Reply-To: <24915-40215@sneakemail.com> References: <24915-40215@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <1041994273.2237.11.camel@supermicro> Just to clarify some items (ie. MT-32): The three original PC interfaces from Roland are as follows: MPU-IPC: 8-bit ISA card that connects to a beige, external breakout box via. 25-pin D-sub connector. Has MIDI IN, OUT, and through as well as a metronome conenctor. MPU-IMC: Microchannel version of the above card. LAPC-1: Full-length 8-bit ISA card containing both the MPU-IPC and Roland MT-32. Has 15-pin D-sub connector for attachment of a similar MIDI breakout box to those found on the MPU-IPC/IMC. What can become confusing when trying to identify the breakout boxes is that the LAPC-1 also offered a breakout box which looks similar to those found on the first two interface cards. It connects using a DB-15 connector instead of the DB-25 connector of the MPU-IPC/IMC. They breakout boxes on the LAPC-1 and MPU-IPC/IMC are *not* interchangeable. An MPU-IPC/IMC and MT-32 setup is functionally equivilent to the LAPC-1 with a breakout box, although the breakout box is optional on the LAPC-1 (it is not needed to produce music since the MT-32 is integrated into the card itself). Jeff On Tue, 2003-01-07 at 20:40, No Junk Mail wrote: > > >IIRC the MT-32 is a full length card. I'm fairly sure that back in > > the > > >day I picked one up. Can't remember how. The music from it was > > superb, > > >at least for the time -- probably still. I > > > > The MT-32 is a external box by Roland, really a fancy drum syth. > > Since the > > smarts were basically a chip, that chip found its way to sound cards. > > Most > > modern motherboards and sound cards still offer MPU-401 and MT-32 > > emulation, even oddly enough if midi itself isn't supported. > > My mistake. A quick Google shows that I had a LAPC-1 -- an MT32 on a card. From jingber at ix.netcom.com Tue Jan 7 20:53:00 2003 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: MPU-401 In-Reply-To: <1041994273.2237.11.camel@supermicro> References: <24915-40215@sneakemail.com> <1041994273.2237.11.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <1041994533.2237.15.camel@supermicro> And one more item: An MPU-IPC/IMC does not produce music. It's an MPU-401 compatible MIDI interface. A Roland MT-32 (or similar device) was typically connected to this interface (ie. a seperate piece of eqipment) to produce music in DOS games. The LAPC-1 is a complete MIDI sound card. No other equipment (besides amplified speakers) are required. Jeff On Tue, 2003-01-07 at 21:51, Jeffrey H. Ingber wrote: > Just to clarify some items (ie. MT-32): > > The three original PC interfaces from Roland are as follows: > > MPU-IPC: 8-bit ISA card that connects to a beige, external breakout box > via. 25-pin D-sub connector. Has MIDI IN, OUT, and through as well as a > metronome conenctor. > > MPU-IMC: Microchannel version of the above card. > > LAPC-1: Full-length 8-bit ISA card containing both the MPU-IPC and > Roland MT-32. Has 15-pin D-sub connector for attachment of a similar > MIDI breakout box to those found on the MPU-IPC/IMC. > > What can become confusing when trying to identify the breakout boxes is > that the LAPC-1 also offered a breakout box which looks similar to those > found on the first two interface cards. It connects using a DB-15 > connector instead of the DB-25 connector of the MPU-IPC/IMC. They > breakout boxes on the LAPC-1 and MPU-IPC/IMC are *not* interchangeable. > > An MPU-IPC/IMC and MT-32 setup is functionally equivilent to the LAPC-1 > with a breakout box, although the breakout box is optional on the LAPC-1 > (it is not needed to produce music since the MT-32 is integrated into > the card itself). > > > Jeff > > > On Tue, 2003-01-07 at 20:40, No Junk Mail wrote: > > > >IIRC the MT-32 is a full length card. I'm fairly sure that back in > > > the > > > >day I picked one up. Can't remember how. The music from it was > > > superb, > > > >at least for the time -- probably still. I > > > > > > The MT-32 is a external box by Roland, really a fancy drum syth. > > > Since the > > > smarts were basically a chip, that chip found its way to sound cards. > > > Most > > > modern motherboards and sound cards still offer MPU-401 and MT-32 > > > emulation, even oddly enough if midi itself isn't supported. > > > > My mistake. A quick Google shows that I had a LAPC-1 -- an MT32 on a card. > From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Tue Jan 7 20:56:01 2003 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Leo Rachor Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: Fwd: H89, REMark, Sextant In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030107201219.02cc9d90@pc> Message-ID: Chris, Where are you located? George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, John Foust wrote: > > >Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 20:40:05 -0500 > >From: Chris Hall > >To: jfoust@threedee.com > >Subject: H89, REMark, Sextant > > > >Dear John, > > > >I have an old Heathkit H89 and many back issues of REMark and Sextant > >magazines. I've got to get rid of them. Any interest or pointers to someone > >who might have interst? > > > >Best regards, > >Chris Hall > > From 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com Tue Jan 7 21:03:00 2003 From: 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com (No Junk Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000TX and 1400LT Message-ID: <17767-38506@sneakemail.com> > felt like digging.. Too bad I don't think I've got anything that'll > read > those 360K floppies anymore.. (If they're still good.) :-) I'm just about to get a 5.25" floppy drive up and running in my main PC. I ordered a Catweasel enhanced floppy controller and I recently found a Teac dual 5.25"/3.5" floppy drive which I hope works. (If anyone knows a good source for new 5.25" floppy drive cleaning disks in Perth, Western Australia I'd be most grateful for the heads-up.) Once I get them all running I'd love to help anyone read, write or image old disks, but I fear Australia is a long way away from most of the people on this list. Speaking of which, I've salvaged a whole bunch of original 5.25" disks for various programs. I'll post a list when I've sorted through it, if anyone's interested. Some of them have useful things like serial numbers written on the labels. > > > Minix? Is it the 1000 that has the 186, or is that the 2000? A quick Google shows that the 2000 was the first with a 186. I love the way that the Tandy used them as a CPU but by the time the 486 was out they were just being used for caching hard drive controllers. (I had a lovely VLB caching controller right up until I walked away from it about 3 years ago -- kicking myself now) Chris J. From kenziem at sympatico.ca Tue Jan 7 21:14:00 2003 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: Selling an old IBM AS400/9404 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030108031705.TQV8448.tomts23-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> On Tuesday 07 January 2003 10:59, you wrote: > For what its worth, I know how to hack the QSEFCOR password... And I have 3 > different MULIC tapes, too.. I'm working on getting more, to provide an > archive for other 400-heads like myself.. I own like 7 of the things if you > count the couple machines that exist in board state only.. Indeed, on the > RISC machines the license is implicitly transferred with the machine, I > believe it even says you MUST transfer the license and s/w with the > machine... That's encouraging. I have a pair of 9404's that I'm almost ready to power up. I just had a disk crash on my home machine so I lost my notes. I've never touched an AS400 before. Can you recommend any basic resources for truning them on and off safely? From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Jan 7 21:25:01 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: IBM 2.88 floppy drive Message-ID: Does anyone need a 2.88 meg floppy drive, IBM FRU 64F4148 (a Mitsubishi underneath)? Pulled out of something long ago, and I can only assume that it is good. Free for shipping, which ought to be about four bucks. First come first served! William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Tue Jan 7 21:58:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: Osborne OCC1 References: <200110050149.VAA16453@tisch.mail.mindspring.net> Message-ID: <3E1BA306.E8387230@mail.verizon.net> I dug up this post from a list that goes back over a year. I am currently making one good OCC1 from two units. I actually have a working system (thanks much to Don Maslin) as of a couple of days ago. Related to this post, though, is that the non-working system has a power supply problem and I wonder if that resister is it. Which one is it? Eric Louis Schulman wrote: > #> The MODEM is sort of rare and it and the disks are worth a few bucks but > #>the smoking Oz is $5 item IMO. > > In fairness, the smoke is most likely coming from a burning resistor in the power supply (I have had this > happen in several O1 computers in the past) and is a $.30 5-minute repair. > > Louis From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Tue Jan 7 22:02:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: Osborne OCC1 References: <200110042023.QAA30126@smtp6.mindspring.com> <3.0.6.32.20011004180854.007b8100@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3.0.6.32.20011004222827.007bb960@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3E1BA3E0.FD70609E@mail.verizon.net> I'm back on them and have had great progress. One system had a bad PS but both drives work fine. The other had bad drives (one of them I did fix, though -a B: drive) but al else is fine. I have since merged all the good parts. Tommorrow I plan to put a 80 column monitor on it and run the full diagnostics. Eric Joe wrote: > At 09:44 PM 10/4/01 -0400, Eric wrote: > >Hey Jeff, > > > >As I recall the next systems we were to work on was these same O-1s. Man, > I can't > >wait. I have two and would like to get both working. > > > >Eric > > > >P.S. One boots, but only B drive. And that was after some serious work! > > Let me know what you find. I need to work on a couple of mine. My > executive will ony boot about every 50 attempts (drive errors). I swapped > the drives but it didn't help. I haven't had time to trouble shoot it > beyond that. > > Joe From loedman1 at juno.com Tue Jan 7 22:06:01 2003 From: loedman1 at juno.com (loedman1@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: Engine confusion Message-ID: <20030107.200617.-130523.1.loedman1@juno.com> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org From: Joe Subject: RE: TRS-80 fever on ebay?! Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org At 07:02 PM 1/6/03 -0500, you wrote: >> I have a '74 Barracuda that's being restored. The original 283 was tossed > 283? When did they start putting Ford engines in Plymouths? I think you mean 318. 283 would be a Chevy engine, Ford would be a 289. Best stick with computers guys !!! Rich From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Jan 7 22:36:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: <00f501c2b6b2$c7f74460$6401a8c0@home> Message-ID: <000b01c2b6cf$e9192560$6e7ba8c0@piii933> I tried sending this directly but it bounced so. . . I would estimate that your Compaq is probably worth between $50 and $200 depending on condition and what other original parts you have with it and, of course, who is buying it and where. ? About a year ago, I paid $100 for a like-new Compaq with all of the original manuals and disks, which I considered reasonable considering the machine. I?ve passed over trashed Compaq?s for under $10. ? Best regards and best of luck! Erik -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of John Clarke Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 5:11 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: An original Compaq "portable" I have an original Compaq portable, that I had hoped to some day gut out and put in a "modern" motherboard etc, with an updated screen, but now it appears as if it may actually be of worth to someone as is. I even have the original receipt from Sears Business Center, where I bought it. Got an IBM proprinter also at the time, but that is now long gone. Anyway, is there some way to find out what the value of my Compaq is? Thanks to all who reply. ? John Clarke Philadelphia, PA From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Jan 7 23:01:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: IBM 5114 References: Message-ID: <008801c2b6d3$63355730$513bcd18@D73KSM11> > So now that I know there is no mystery hard drive for my 5110... I have > to give some thought to if I want to sell the system. With this recent > eBay fever over things like a TRS-80, I am pondering if I can get a > pretty penny from my 5110. I could REALLY use the money towards a house > purchase. (I've got the 5110 with both Basic and APL, a large assortment > of manuals, a few tapes with software on them, and the 5114 floppy drive > unit. I should also have a printer around, but I can't say for sure if > the printer is still operational). Time to do some hunting on the > possible value... and if that value is enough for me to part with it (it > holds a bunch of sentimental value to me, as it was one of the first > computers I ever played with... possibly THE first, I'd have to compare > timelines against the Apple II I used in the late 70's) > > -chris > > With APL you'll probably get $1500-$2000 for the lot, and likely more if you sell the pieces separately. I, for one, would bid on the 5114 separately as I need one, but not the 5110. -W From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Jan 7 23:08:01 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000TX and 1400LT In-Reply-To: <686-55583@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <3E1B5E26.23750.20F91FEB@localhost> On 8 Jan 2003, , No Junk Mail wrote: > > From memory the Tandy range of PCs of that vintage used a > "Tandy Graphcis Adaptor". I believe that was 16 colours at > 320x200, but only 4 colours at any higher res. The Tandy > was the poor man's EGA. Sure, low-res games were 16 > colours, but high-res apps basically had to be in CGA mode. > > I would imagine that the connector was one of those round > RGB connectors like the Atari 8-bits. But that's a guess. My 1000SX has the DE9 connector for RGBI as well as RCA connectors for audio and video. There were several monitors. VM-4 mono, CM-5 RGBI Color, and CM-10 Hi- Res Color. The video was better than CGA but not quite as good as EGA on my CM-5 monitor. Lawrence > > BTW: Any other Australians here. Particularly one that > might be interested in a works-but-no-hard-drive Silicon > Graphics Personal Iris. I was going to use it for a PC case > mod, but too much of it still works. > > Chris J. > > > Speaking of Tandy 1000s... I recently picked up a > > Australian Tandy 1000EX. A strange machine, keyboard and > > PC all in one unit. It also came with the original monitor > > and printer, though some clever person had cut off the > > monitor cables - nearly finished repairing that. I wonder > > how common those are. If anyone has the colour codes for > > the monitor plug/cable, please let me know! In fact, even > > knowing if the 1000EX used standard CGA would be a good > > start. > > > > Also concerning odd machines - anyone ever seen a > > Spectravideo SVI-808 PC? There was a SVI-808 modem as > > well, apparently, lots of confusion there. > > > > Mike. > > lgwalker@ mts.net From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Jan 7 23:31:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: Engine confusion References: <20030107.200617.-130523.1.loedman1@juno.com> Message-ID: <00b201c2b6d7$93d4b5d0$513bcd18@D73KSM11> > At 07:02 PM 1/6/03 -0500, you wrote: > >> I have a '74 Barracuda that's being restored. The original 283 was > tossed > > > 283? When did they start putting Ford engines in Plymouths? I think > you mean 318. > > 283 would be a Chevy engine, Ford would be a 289. Best stick with > computers guys !!! > That's right, but I think the original mistake was just a simple typo -- the famous Cuda engine was the 383. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Jan 7 23:32:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: IBM 5114 References: <3E1AE9AC.30530.33F996C2@localhost> Message-ID: <00bc01c2b6d7$b40e11c0$513bcd18@D73KSM11> > > There was no hard drive option for the > > 5110 (or for that matter the 5100 or 5120). > > Not from IBM, but at least one company apparently had one. > I read someone's resume about 3 months ago ... one of his jobs > was working on a hard drive for a 5110 (or a 5100?). > > (Sorry, I've fogotten who it was, darn it, and the name of > the company he worked for!) > Wow. One of those I'd love to get. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Jan 7 23:39:12 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" References: <000b01c2b6cf$e9192560$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: <00f401c2b6d8$9c85c9c0$513bcd18@D73KSM11> > I tried sending this directly but it bounced so. . . > > I would estimate that your Compaq is probably worth between $50 and $200 > depending on condition and what other original parts you have with it > and, of course, who is buying it and where. > > About a year ago, I paid $100 for a like-new Compaq with all of the > original manuals and disks, which I considered reasonable considering > the machine. I've passed over trashed Compaq's for under $10. > > Best regards and best of luck! > > Erik > Wow, near the end of VCF 4 one of the vendors put a post-it with the word "FREE" on it on an original, pristine Compaq portable, and now it sits on a rack in my garage. Complete with upgraded 10MB full-height HDD. -W From fernande at internet1.net Tue Jan 7 23:56:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: Engine confusion In-Reply-To: <20030107.200617.-130523.1.loedman1@juno.com> References: <20030107.200617.-130523.1.loedman1@juno.com> Message-ID: <3E1BBE02.1040706@internet1.net> loedman1@juno.com wrote: > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > From: Joe > Subject: RE: TRS-80 fever on ebay?! > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > At 07:02 PM 1/6/03 -0500, you wrote: > >>> I have a '74 Barracuda that's being restored. The original 283 was > > tossed > > >> 283? When did they start putting Ford engines in Plymouths? I think > > you mean 318. > > 283 would be a Chevy engine, Ford would be a 289. Best stick with > computers guys !!! > > Rich Chrysler had a 383, although, I'm not sure if it was in production in 74. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From evan947 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 8 00:05:08 2003 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: original apple portable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030108060813.66015.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Here's some great info: http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/reach/435/macport.htm Also, pages 111-113 of "Apple Confidential" are devoted to the Portable. LOL, the name of the chapter it's in is "Big Bad Blunders." --- Lynn Thompson wrote: > We recently purchased an original Apple portable, > model #M5120, at a garage > sale. It came in the original black carrying case > with the Apple logo. We're > searching for any information about it, with the > goal of selling it > eventually. Any suggestions anyone can offer will be > greatly appreciated. > > Lynn and Blake > > If you want something you never had, then you need > to do something you've > never done. > Oprah Winfrey > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jan 8 00:22:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: ADMIN: Web Site, FAQ Status Update Message-ID: <123148320403.20030108002509@subatomix.com> The main pages of the web site have been changed to the new, simple layout. Go on over to http://www.classiccmp.org/ and check it out. Still to be updated are the various pages Mailman spits out when subbing, unsubbing, or changing options. The FAQ 2.0 is still not up, but I have put up the old 1997 FAQ (and the appropriate disclaimer :-) ). Remember that much of the information contained in the old FAQ (especially contact information!) is no longer applicable. Enjoy! -- Jeffrey Sharp From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Jan 8 00:45:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: original apple portable References: <20030108060813.66015.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <013a01c2b6e1$e8714770$513bcd18@D73KSM11> > --- Lynn Thompson wrote: > > We recently purchased an original Apple portable, > > model #M5120, at a garage > > sale. It came in the original black carrying case > > with the Apple logo. We're > > searching for any information about it, with the > > goal of selling it > > eventually. Any suggestions anyone can offer will be > > greatly appreciated. > > There are 3-4 5120s up for sale on eBay at any given time. They almost always have dead batteries and won't fully boot with the anemic 1.5v 2.0a charger so most sellers either think they've got a broken machine or have done enough research to know that the problem may simply be the battery, but don't have the right power supply to test the machine properly, such as one from a Powerbook 100 or 170. A good source of information is: http://www.lowendmac.com/pb/portable.shtml Frankly, these machines have already seen their heyday on eBay and are not commanding the three digit prices they once were a few years ago. At one time, there were a lot of buyers in Japan willing to pay fairly good money, but that market has dried up. They are quite common and I believe that everyone that wanted one now has one. For example: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2084278816 The backlit model (5126) is far scarcer and can still fetch over $100 if verified to be working. But that's a different machine. -W From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 8 00:48:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000TX and 1400LT In-Reply-To: <20030106220818.72099.qmail@web13408.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Anthony wrote: > Can anyone shed some light onto the possible value of > the following computers: > > Tandy 1400LT portable computer (2 floppy drives & > case) $10 > Tandy 1000TX (20MB hard drive) $5 Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com Wed Jan 8 01:03:00 2003 From: 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com (No Junk Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: MPU-401 Message-ID: <13015-94713@sneakemail.com> > Do you know if there's any difference in performance between the > MPU-401 > and MT-32? Or is it simply a difference in implementation. [See previous comment about MT-32 vs LAPC-1] IIRC (and I've just proved how reliable my memory is :-\ ) the MPU-401 was a MIDI interface with no instruments and the MT-32 was an external module that required either a MIDI or serial interface. You would use the two together. [Of course, if I'd sent this to the right place first time this wouldn't be redundant now.] I distinctly remember having to play around with some mapping untilities to get the LAPC-1 to get even close to general MIDI and I'm fairly sure there were a bunch of sounds that simply weren't there. However, there were also a heap of sounds the MT-32/LAPC-1 did that weren't in the general MIDI list. I had multiple sound cards and I used to have fairly complicated channel and instrument mapping going on. I used to have a Miracle Piano Teaching System too, which had some nice sounds. Never did get all that far with it though. Anyone else have the optional CMS chips for the original Soundblaster 1.0? I remember a lot of Seirra games sounding a lot better with the extra channels. Damn I wish I'd kept that stuff now. Chris J. --- Sorry to vance-at-neurotica . com for the dupe, I need to pay more attention to the from: line.... From rickb at bensene.com Wed Jan 8 01:23:00 2003 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: Engine confusion In-Reply-To: <20030107.200617.-130523.1.loedman1@juno.com> Message-ID: <003c01c2b6e7$42ccbdd0$030aa8c0@bensene.com> OK. Chrysler Corp. had a 273. It was used in early Barracudas (before the 'Cuda, which was introduced in '70). The 273 was superceded by the 318 in somewhere around '67 or so. Chrysler never made a 283. Neither did Ford. That displacement was only made by Chevrolet as one of the early Small-Block Chevy engines (a follow on to the original 265 CI Chevy Small Block). In '70, the Barracuda and the sportier 'Cuda model could both be ordered with a 383. The 318 small block was avaialable in the Barracuda, as was the 383. The 'Cuda could be had with a 340 Six Pack (a very hot setup with 3 2-barrel carbs which was called the AAR 'Cuda -- a very highly-sought after collector car today), a 383 four-barrel (the standard engine in the 'Cuda), a 440 four-barrel, a 440 Six Pack (very rare), and, the cream of the crop, the 426 Hemi (also very rare). The same basic engine lineup with the exception of the 440 Six Pack was available in '74. By this time, though, the 383 was crippled with smogisms, lowered compression, and was a mere ghost of the 325 (Gross)HP 383 that was available in '70'. So, it's likely tha the original poster of the message simply typo'd when the message was composed putting in '2'83 rather than '3'83. What relationship all of this has to classic computers is a mystery to me...but it just happens that I'm a fan of '60's and early '70's musclecars, so I thought I'd chime in. Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Web Museum http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of loedman1@juno.com > Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 8:05 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Engine confusion > > > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > From: Joe > Subject: RE: TRS-80 fever on ebay?! > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > At 07:02 PM 1/6/03 -0500, you wrote: > >> I have a '74 Barracuda that's being restored. The > original 283 was > tossed > > > 283? When did they start putting Ford engines in > Plymouths? I think > you mean 318. > > 283 would be a Chevy engine, Ford would be a 289. Best stick > with computers guys !!! > > Rich > From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Jan 8 01:46:01 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: Engine confusion References: <20030107.200617.-130523.1.loedman1@juno.com> <3E1BBE02.1040706@internet1.net> Message-ID: <014601c2b6ea$5ea4b410$513bcd18@D73KSM11> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 9:58 PM Subject: Re: Engine confusion > loedman1@juno.com wrote: > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > From: Joe > > Subject: RE: TRS-80 fever on ebay?! > > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > > At 07:02 PM 1/6/03 -0500, you wrote: > > > >>> I have a '74 Barracuda that's being restored. The original 283 was > > > > tossed > > > > > >> 283? When did they start putting Ford engines in Plymouths? I think > > > > you mean 318. > > > > 283 would be a Chevy engine, Ford would be a 289. Best stick with > > computers guys !!! > > > > Rich > > Chrysler had a 383, although, I'm not sure if it was in production in 74. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > It wasn't - I just checked and the only stock engines for the '74 Cuda were the 318 and 360 -- last year for the 383 was 1971, so no typo after all (unless he meant '64 Cuda with a 273). -W From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 8 06:18:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: HP 98564 - what is it? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030107232815.00b6bc68@slave> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030108072601.0f67b376@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Can you give us a bit of a description? Joe At 11:30 PM 1/7/03 +0000, you wrote: >As per subject; I can't find anything on Google which matches HP 98564... > >I'm wondering if it's a typo, as it claims to be a 9000 series (so, either >a 9564, a 9856, a 9854 or a 9864 is my guess), but can anyone shed any light? > >Ta. >-- >Cheers, Ade. >Be where it's at, B-Racing! >http://b-racing.com > From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Wed Jan 8 06:26:00 2003 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: HP 98564 - what is it? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030108072601.0f67b376@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030107232815.00b6bc68@slave> <3.0.6.16.20030108072601.0f67b376@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <64711.62.148.198.97.1042028958.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Joe said: > Can you give us a bit of a description? > HP 98564 is either 9000/340 or 345 http://groups.google.com/groups?q=HP+98564&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=354691AA.946919C9%40bellsouth.net&rnum=1 345 is interesting, 68030@50MHz, same memory as in 380. -- jht From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 8 06:47:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: Osborne OCC1 In-Reply-To: <3E1BA306.E8387230@mail.verizon.net> References: <200110050149.VAA16453@tisch.mail.mindspring.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030108074007.4ddf7288@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Erik, I recently had an OCC-1 that blew something in the PSU. That odd thing was that it kept working! I wasn't really intersted in it so I gave it to Glen Goodwin. I expect that he'll troubleshoot/repair it soon. The PSU in my BBC Acorn also blew a cap recently. I pulled a cap (0.1Mfd 250 VAC) from a commercail PSU that I found in a scrap pile and I'm going to use it to replace the one in the Acorn. The good thing about working on switcher PSUs is that component failures are usually obvious! Joe At 11:03 PM 1/7/03 -0500, you wrote: >I dug up this post from a list that goes back over a year. > >I am currently making one good OCC1 from two units. > >I actually have a working system (thanks much to Don Maslin) as >of a couple of days ago. > >Related to this post, though, is that the non-working system has a >power supply problem and I wonder if that resister is it. Which one >is it? > >Eric > >Louis Schulman wrote: > >> #> The MODEM is sort of rare and it and the disks are worth a few bucks but >> #>the smoking Oz is $5 item IMO. >> >> In fairness, the smoke is most likely coming from a burning resistor in the power supply (I have had this >> happen in several O1 computers in the past) and is a $.30 5-minute repair. >> >> Louis > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 8 06:47:30 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: Engine confusion In-Reply-To: <00b201c2b6d7$93d4b5d0$513bcd18@D73KSM11> References: <20030107.200617.-130523.1.loedman1@juno.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030108075208.0f5f6f08@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:34 PM 1/7/03 -0800, you wrote: >> At 07:02 PM 1/6/03 -0500, you wrote: >> >> I have a '74 Barracuda that's being restored. The original 283 was >> tossed >> >> > 283? When did they start putting Ford engines in Plymouths? I think >> you mean 318. >> >> 283 would be a Chevy engine, Ford would be a 289. Best stick with >> computers guys !!! >> >That's right, but I think the original mistake was just a simple typo -- the >famous Cuda engine was the 383. THE famous cuda engine was the 426 Hemi! Joe > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 8 06:47:53 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: <00f501c2b6b2$c7f74460$6401a8c0@home> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030108074800.4f67a5ea@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:10 PM 1/7/03 -0500, you wrote: >I have an original Compaq portable, that I had hoped to some day gut out and put in a "modern" motherboard That's been done. I THINK the guy that did has a website explaining the changes. The most difficult part was finding an AT compatible keyboard that fits the case. Compaq did make some (used in a 286 version of the Portable) but they're not easy to find. etc, with an updated screen, but now it appears as if it may actually be of worth to someone as is. I even have the original receipt from Sears Business Center, where I bought it. Got an IBM proprinter also at the time, but that is now long gone. >Anyway, is there some way to find out what the value of my Compaq is? E-bay. >Thanks to all who reply. > >John Clarke >Philadelphia, PA > >Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\Attach\Anorigin.htm" > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 8 06:48:16 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: TRS-80 fever on ebay?! In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20030107090148.500f0822@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030108074441.4f677a42@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:52 PM 1/7/03 -0600, you wrote: >On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Joe wrote: > >> At 07:02 PM 1/6/03 -0500, you wrote: >> > I have a '74 Barracuda that's being restored. The original 283 was tossed >> >> 283? When did they start putting Ford engines in Plymouths? I think you mean 318. > > MoPar built a 280-class V8, but I think it was a 273.... It was but they quit building it in 1968(?) and switched over to the 318. BTW that was the wedge 318 not the earlier poly-sphere 318 that they had been building since the early '60s. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 8 06:48:41 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: Engine confusion Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030108074957.4f67a27c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:04 PM 1/7/03 -0800, you wrote: > >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >From: Joe >Subject: RE: TRS-80 fever on ebay?! >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >At 07:02 PM 1/6/03 -0500, you wrote: >>> I have a '74 Barracuda that's being restored. The original 283 was >tossed > >> 283? When did they start putting Ford engines in Plymouths? I think >you mean 318. > >283 would be a Chevy engine, Ford would be a 289. Best stick with >computers guys !!! > > Rich Argghh! Brain Fart! Joe From avickers at solutionengineers.com Wed Jan 8 06:53:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: HP 98564 - what is it? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030108072601.0f67b376@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030107232815.00b6bc68@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030108125240.0222c798@slave> At 07:26 08/01/2003, Joe wrote: >At 11:30 PM 1/7/03 +0000, you wrote: > >As per subject; I can't find anything on Google which matches HP 98564... > > > >I'm wondering if it's a typo, as it claims to be a 9000 series (so, either > >a 9564, a 9856, a 9854 or a 9864 is my guess), but can anyone shed any > light? > Can you give us a bit of a description? Unfortunately not. There were 3 of them going in an eBay auction, starting price ?10, buy-it-now of ?25; included monitors & other stuff. The caveat was you had to drive to Plymouth (for those who don't know the UK too well, it's in Devon, about 2/3rds of the way down the south-east "leg" of the country). It's a long drive from pretty much anywhere... Irritatingly (for me), someone BINned it at 7.30am, several hours before I got up (and it was due to end before either of these replies came in). Basically, I was considering bidding, but I didn't want to drive 150 miles (or more, I dunno how far it is from here) only to pick up a carful of skip material. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Jan 8 07:03:00 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: Engine confusion In-Reply-To: <014601c2b6ea$5ea4b410$513bcd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <056e01c2b716$a028b0e0$020010ac@k4jcw> Because I started this confusion, I'll try to help end it. My '74 came from the factory with a 318. I was just confused when I typed it. The 318 was junked, and the built 440 dropped in. From what I'm told, the 318 had a hard time getting out of it's own way, even going downhill with a tailwind. --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Wayne M. Smith > Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 02:49 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Engine confusion > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chad Fernandez" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 9:58 PM > Subject: Re: Engine confusion > > > > loedman1@juno.com wrote: > > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > From: Joe > > > Subject: RE: TRS-80 fever on ebay?! > > > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > > > > At 07:02 PM 1/6/03 -0500, you wrote: > > > > > >>> I have a '74 Barracuda that's being restored. The > original 283 was > > > > > > tossed > > > > > > > > >> 283? When did they start putting Ford engines in > Plymouths? I think > > > > > > you mean 318. > > > > > > 283 would be a Chevy engine, Ford would be a 289. Best stick with > > > computers guys !!! > > > > > > Rich > > > > Chrysler had a 383, although, I'm not sure if it was in > production in 74. > > > > Chad Fernandez > > Michigan, USA > > > It wasn't - I just checked and the only stock engines for the > '74 Cuda were the > 318 and 360 -- last year for the 383 was 1971, so no typo > after all (unless he > meant '64 Cuda with a 273). > > -W > > From bpope at wordstock.com Wed Jan 8 07:30:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: Phonemark "Quick Data Drive" - info?, also WTD Commodore 15xx In-Reply-To: <41C19CA3B7CBD411B59200508B6CBBFF02E6683C@AH-Exchange-01.arh.cdc.com> from "Bradley, Joel E -Syntegra US" at Jan 7, 03 05:31:26 pm Message-ID: <200301081331.IAA09075@wordstock.com> And thusly Bradley, Joel E -Syntegra US spake: > > I wonder..does anyone out there have a copy of the game "Airborne Ranger"? > It was a superbly done game, and I remember how to play, but I have lost the > manual. One problem is that the copy protection feature built-in was that > you had to look up a medal ribbon that was located in the manual. Without > that, it wouldn't let you play! Joel, Check out http://www.lemon64.com for pretty much every C64 game made. Cheers, Bryan From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Wed Jan 8 07:58:01 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: OT: RE: DMCA etc. Message-ID: In related news: Norwegian teenager acquitted in DVD film cracking case Tue Jan 7, 7:26 PM ET By DOUG MELLGREN, Associated Press Writer OSLO, Norway - Hollywood didn't get its happy ending when a Norwegian court acquitted a teenager of digital burglary charges for creating and circulating online a program that cracks the security codes on DVDs. Tuesday's ruling, a blow to the entertainment industry's drive to curtail illegal copying of its movies, was a key test in how far copyright holders can go in preventing duplication of their intellectual property. Jon Lech Johansen, who was 15 when he developed and posted the program on the Internet in late 1999, said he developed the software only to watch DVD movies he owned on a Linux-based computer that lacked DVD-viewing software. -----Original Message----- From: John Allain [mailto:allain@panix.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 4:46 PM To: CCTalk Subject: DMCA etc. For those of you nutz about the current efforts to make digital copyrights overly restrictive, here's a FUN place to visit, as regards to this problem. "END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR VIEWING ILLEGAL ART EXHIBIT" http://www.illegal-art.org/contract.html If you allow popups, go here instead and it will pop the above. http://www.illegal-art.org John A. From avickers at solutionengineers.com Wed Jan 8 08:05:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Ade Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80K/A/B again Message-ID: <1042034886.999.15.camel@Syrinx> Many years ago, I owned an MZ-80K. With it, were a whole stack of magazines, which (IIRC) were called Sharpsoft User Group, or something similar to that. Sadly, I sold that MZ-80K to a friend (along with all the mags), and they (comp & mags) have long since passed into oblivion. The thing is, those magazines were worth more than their weight in gold, in terms of information about the MZ-80 series computers; there was loads of type-in software, stuff about peeks & pokes, and so on & so forth. Thing is, I cannot find a single reference on the internet to Sharpsoft, save for some unrelated stuff, and a couple of references to cash registers. :( So, does anyone else remember the Sharpsoft mags (incidentally, they are unrelated to the UK-based Sharp Users Group), if so does anyone *have* any, and if so can I either buy/trade/borrow them? Thanks in advance! -- Cheers, Ade. B-Racing, "B" where the action is! http://www.b-racing.com From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Wed Jan 8 08:26:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: Osborne OCC1 Message-ID: Speaking of OCC1 parts, I need to clean out the basement some, and have the following available for anyone who will pay the postage (from Chicago): 1 OCC1 motherboard (from a tan case) with double density and 52/80/104 column video upgrades 1 OCC1 power supply 1 OCC1 keyboard (bare, not in case) email me at robert(underscore)feldman(at)jdedwards(dot)com. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Eric Chomko [mailto:vze2wsvr@verizon.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 10:07 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Osborne OCC1 I'm back on them and have had great progress. One system had a bad PS but both drives work fine. The other had bad drives (one of them I did fix, though -a B: drive) but al else is fine. I have since merged all the good parts. Tommorrow I plan to put a 80 column monitor on it and run the full diagnostics. Eric From rhudson at cnonline.net Wed Jan 8 08:27:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030108074800.4f67a5ea@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > The most difficult part was finding an AT compatible keyboard that > fits the case. Compaq did make some (used in a 286 version of the > Portable) but they're not easy to find. > Wouldn't a keyboard adapter work? Use the keyboard you got and just adapt it to the motherboard. From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Wed Jan 8 08:48:01 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" Message-ID: The keyboard used with an XT is different than that used with an AT and above. -----Original Message----- From: Ron Hudson [mailto:rhudson@cnonline.net] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 8:32 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: An original Compaq "portable" > The most difficult part was finding an AT compatible keyboard that > fits the case. Compaq did make some (used in a 286 version of the > Portable) but they're not easy to find. > Wouldn't a keyboard adapter work? Use the keyboard you got and just adapt it to the motherboard. From jrasite at eoni.com Wed Jan 8 08:59:00 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: Engine confusion References: <20030107.200617.-130523.1.loedman1@juno.com> <3E1BBE02.1040706@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3E1C3D6F.1030408@eoni.com> Mopar Small Block in '74 = 273 CI. Chad Fernandez wrote: > loedman1@juno.com wrote: > >> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >> From: Joe >> Subject: RE: TRS-80 fever on ebay?! >> Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >> >> At 07:02 PM 1/6/03 -0500, you wrote: >> >>>> I have a '74 Barracuda that's being restored. The original 283 was >>> >> >> tossed >> >> >>> 283? When did they start putting Ford engines in Plymouths? I think >> >> >> you mean 318. >> >> 283 would be a Chevy engine, Ford would be a 289. Best stick with >> computers guys !!! >> >> Rich > > > Chrysler had a 383, although, I'm not sure if it was in production in 74. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > > . > From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Wed Jan 8 09:00:00 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: Oersted Ratings of DC300A and DC600 Tape Cartridges References: Message-ID: <3E1C3D95.20AFB3E2@compsys.to> >Brian Chase wrote: > > On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > Wonderful, thanks much for the information!!! Due to financial concerns, > > I am selling my IBM 5100 (sigh) on Ebay. Most of the tapes were DC300A, > > and the extra ones I have are the DC600s. I am in the process of > > duplicating the tapes, 1) so I can keep a set of the Patch and Games > > tapes in case I can ever afford another one :), and 2) to make sure the > > tapes are readable. Thanks again! > If at all possible, it would be wise to store file images of these tapes > on CDs or some other more modern storage format. I'm not sure exactly > how one would go about doing this, but maybe someone on the list can > offer some suggestions. > -brian. Jerome Fine replies: I don't know if this information will help, but the DC600A tapes that I used to use (I probably now have quite a few I can make available) were placed in a TK25 tape drive made by DEC for a PDP-11. I used then about 10 years ago to make backups under RT-11. From what I learned over the years, they may have used a QIC-24 (or something like that - my memory is hazy) format. But I also suspect that the DEC tape drive might have switched the BOT with the EOT - although that might have been with the DC300 tapes that I used with an 11/23 system that had is own device driver. In any case, making a backup copy of the data to be placed on a TK25 tape drive using a DC600A media might not be a great idea as opposed to making a copy of the hard drive IF that possibility exists. There are always going to be trade offs between using what seems to be a good suggestion as opposed to what is even practical, let alone useful. With regard to what a PDP-11 would place on a DC600A tape, it would be far more useful to make a copy of the hard drive. However, since I don't have ANY experience at all with the IBM 5100, my observations (based on how a PDP-11 would use the information) are likely to be completely impractical. However, just thought I might point out the experience I have had from the DEC point of view. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Wed Jan 8 10:47:00 2003 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarletd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: Somewhat OT: ISA Compaq TV Tuner Card Message-ID: <3E1BE579.16731.D007CCC@localhost> I just recently picked up an old 8 bit ISA TV Tuner card, a Compaq MG9910-20893. On the label it states "For use only with Compaq Computer Products." Anyone here ever have one of these? If so, is it true that it can only be used with an actual Compaq system, or will any DOS/Win 3.1 system with ISA slots work? I need to know before I try to test it. If it does require a Compaq system, then I will have to pull the hard drive out of my Linux Box (a Presario 9546) and slap in another drive and install DOS 6.22 and WfW 3.11. But if it will work in any system, I can just add it to the old 486/DX-33 I set up just to run classic DOS games without having to do the great hardware shuffle. Also, if it does require a Compaq system, has anyone out there used one of these cards under Linux? Thanks -- Scarletdown From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 8 11:04:00 2003 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: Engine confusion Message-ID: Not to beat a dead horse, but the last year a 273 could be had in a Barracuda was 1967. No ifs, ands, or buts. 1968 was the last year of the 273, period. Amusingly, one of my cars' emissions tests says it has a 283, stupid emissions testings place... In all the emissions things I have, the engine size is variously reported as 273, 283, 318, or 340, and yes it easily passed no matter which one it was thought to be. I guess a 74 with a 318 might be slow, wouldn't know, but I know E-bodies weigh a good deal more than my A-body. I have a 69 318 in my fastback, which despite having a two barrel and being backed with an automatic, used to regularly stomp ricers, well before I started restoring it of course.. I wish I had the 273 still, but that was replaced before my time, it suffered from an engine rebuild performed by the automotive equivalent of braindead monkeys. Anyway, if anyone wants further info about my cudas or whatnot, feel free to e-mail me offlist.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From cb at mythtech.net Wed Jan 8 12:10:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: IBM 5114 Message-ID: >With APL you'll probably get $1500-$2000 for the lot, and likely more if you >sell the pieces separately. I, for one, would bid on the 5114 separately >as I >need one, but not the 5110. Really? I figured it would be worth more as a whole. But I guess it does make some sense to be willing to part out the 5114, and then just sell the 5110 with its manuals. This will definitly be the thought running thru my head for the next while... to sell or not to sell... how to put a price on the physical first computer you used. -chris From cb at mythtech.net Wed Jan 8 12:15:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: original apple portable Message-ID: >> We recently purchased an original Apple portable, >> model #M5120, at a garage >> sale. It came in the original black carrying case >> with the Apple logo. We're >> searching for any information about it, with the >> goal of selling it >> eventually. Any suggestions anyone can offer will be >> greatly appreciated. I see these on the LEM Swap list from time to time... usually for about $100 or less. They don't seem to be anywhere near as valuable as one might think. In most cases they are in working order when offered (although its not too unusual to see them offered with a dead battery) -chris From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 8 12:17:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:10 2005 Subject: C-64 games (was Re: Phonemark "Quick Data Drive" - info?, also WTD Commodore 15xx) In-Reply-To: <200301081331.IAA09075@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <20030108182013.73823.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bryan Pope wrote: > Check out http://**** for pretty much every C64 game made. Nope... not the ones my company did c. 1983-1985... but we wrote kiddie software. I've never seen a copy of our stuff on the 'net. *sniff* I did a web search of some of our titles once and found my discussion of them on classiccmp and *one* other reference - in a resume from our head programmer. We were well regarded in our day (three of Reader's Digest's top 5 selling titles), but obviously, history paints a different picture. Not even good enough to steal. :-( We also supported the BBC Micro and the Apple II (with eventual support of the PC and PCjr, but those platforms weren't popular for the home yet). -ethan P.S. - for the curious, the titles were written by Software Productions; the three biggest names were "Alphabet Beasts and Company", "Micro Mother Goose" and "Micro Habitats". "Cross Swords" never made it out of development. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 8 12:22:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030108074800.4f67a5ea@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20030108182535.58814.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Joe wrote: > At 08:10 PM 1/7/03 -0500, you wrote: > >I have an original Compaq portable, that I had hoped to some day gut out > and put in a "modern" motherboard > > That's been done. I THINK the guy that did has a website explaining > the changes. The most difficult part was finding an AT compatible > keyboard that fits the case. Compaq did make some (used in a 286 version > of the Portable) but they're not easy to find. I have both an original dual-floppy Portable and a 286 Portable II. I was recently attempting to use the Portable II to drive my UP600A device programmer, but the PSU isn't strong enough to power the CRT, the hard disk *and* a box of linear ICs. When you flip the UP600A on, the PSU in the Portable shuts down for a moment, then comes back on. I didn't think that it would survive lots of that treatment, so I turned my attentions to the Compaq SLT/286 that's doing just fine. At one time, I, too, entertained putting a more modern motherboard in a portable. Given the keyboard issues and the mono CRT, it just doesn't seem worth the effort. Laptops aren't expensive anymore. I did notice that the fellow who put a modern board in an SX-64 used a wireless keyboard/mouse to get around the keyboard issue, but that means that you have to lug around two parcels instead of one. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 8 12:24:01 2003 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: Chip Upgrades for 11/23 (was Re: 11/03 system on eBay sold) Message-ID: Speaking of DIBOL, I need COS-300 for some of my 11/23s... In case you didn't know, COS-300 is RT-11 with DIBOL layered on it or something.. COS-500 is the same but its RSTS-based if I remember correctly.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 8 12:29:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030108183101.14739.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Feldman, Robert" wrote: > The keyboard used with an XT is different than that used with an AT and > above. I'll agree in the case of the Portable vs the Portable II, but for some machines built during the transition, there were switchable keyboards that would work with either... I'm using one now. I've had it for over 10 years. It came with an XT clone I bought off my old college roommate... Paid him $100 for the PC, then a year or two later, parted it out for $120 and kept the keyboard. Nothing remarkable about it, but it seems to have withstood years of Wolf3D/Doom/Quake with flying colors. The stamp on the bottom identifies it as a Key Tronic EP3435XTATE (the switches let you select XT, AT or "Enhanced") -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 8 12:30:49 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: NCR Machines and other stuff Message-ID: Anyone interested in what Duncan has? The Decision Mate V is a Z80-based machine that typically ran CP/M. I am pretty sure he's talking about an IBM 5150 and not 5100. At any rate, contact him directly. Reply-to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:33:58 -0600 From: Lucas Boyken Subject: NCR Machines To Whom It May Concern, I have some NCR machines that may be of interest. 2 PC6 machines which are 8088's. Also, two Decision Mate V machines with Memory Add-on to total 128K of base memeory and External Hard Drive, FH 10Mb Segate I believe. Further, I believe I have two old IBM orginal PC's, 5100's sound right. One of them has an add-on board to upgrade it to an 80386 chip. Beyond that, I have a mirad of memory boards, IO boards, etc. If any is of interest to you and your organization, please contact me, as I am thinking of throwing them out. Respectfully, Lucas W. Boyken Account Manager / Technical Representative Computer Systems Associates 619 Sumner Ave. Humboldt, IA 50548 Phone: (515) 332-2751 Company Phone: 800-222-7601 Fax: 515-295-5687 lboyken@csapc.com -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 8 12:39:01 2003 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: Config info on HP1000 memory? Message-ID: Just a quick HP-1000 memory question while we're all discussing it... I have a single 12747H board in my 2113E.. is it correct to jumper it for 0-64K? That would be my guess, as it is the only memory present.. I'm thinking the fact that it was jumpered as 960K-1024K may have contributed to my machine's failure to work, heh. Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From fecooper at tva.gov Wed Jan 8 12:43:01 2003 From: fecooper at tva.gov (Cooper, Frank E.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: Commodore SX-64 For Sale Message-ID: <47C91999C012D711A4520002A543702D03E5F9@TVARVRXCH2.mss.tva.gov> I have a Commodore SX-64 for sale. This is the semi-portable Commodore 64 with the built-in monitor. I think they are rather rare. Reply to: fecooper@tva.gov -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030108/cfce2953/attachment.html From trestivo at concentric.net Wed Jan 8 12:47:11 2003 From: trestivo at concentric.net (Thom Restivo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: MPU-401 Message-ID: I have a MPU-IPC-T Midi Processing Unit available. I believe this is mpu 401 compatable. I was going to put it up on Ebay but would rather see it go to someone here on the board. It contains the box, the 8 bit card, original manual and packaging. The receipt is still in the box and it shows a retail price of $119. It was used only a couple of times and is in excellent condition. If you would like more info or pics email me at trestivo@tarinc.com. Make an offer. thom From c.morris at townsqr.com Wed Jan 8 12:49:01 2003 From: c.morris at townsqr.com (Dr. Charles E. Morris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: ADM-3A lower case modifications - another thought? Message-ID: <002f01c2b683$47156270$0801a8c0@DrOccMed> I was wondering if anyone has used an FPGA or similar programmable device as a replacement for the unobtainable lower-case 2513 character generator in the ADM-3A terminal. I am trying to avoid fabricating an adapter board to use a 27xx EPROM since the pinouts are quite different. Since the only unusual pin on the 2513 is the GND on 10 (and 12 is not used) I would like to just be able to jumper the board pin 12 to ground and plug in a 24 pin device with programmable I/O pins to match the 2513 address lines and data outputs. Does anyone know which device would be the most suitable? thanks Charles From vance at neurotica.com Wed Jan 8 12:50:46 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000TX and 1400LT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oops. Looks like they moved... http://elks.sourceforge.net/ Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 7 Jan 2003 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > What about the same model - 1000TX - with the original box & docs, > > > keyboard, touchpad and a blazing Tandy internal 300bps modem? > > > > > > Assuming the answer is still "< shipping", is there a Unix that runs > > > on that goober? > > > > Minix? Is it the 1000 that has the 186, or is that the 2000? Need > > at lesat a 286 for Venix, IIRC, and a 386 for Linux and other "modern" > > stuff. The instruction sets aren't all that different, but the MMUs > > are. > > There's also ELKS. http://www.elks.ecs.soton.ac.uk/ > > Peace... Sridhar > From vance at neurotica.com Wed Jan 8 12:52:40 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: MPU-401 In-Reply-To: <3E1B2B4F.31659.3A51CC71@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > > > > I have the interface box for one of these, but not the card. Anyone know > > > > where I can get one? It's the 8-bit XT MIDI card. > > > Ouch ... I have the card, and would love to get the box:) > > > Back in the old days, it was the best sound add on for > > > a game PC ... Well, I payed some 500 Bucks. > > > No doubt. I'm actually building a game PC right now. Probably with a > > 486DX-33. For old games I have lying around. Most of these games support > > the MPU-401 and MT-32. Speaking of which. What is an MT-32 like compared > > to the MPU-401? I've never seen one. > > No idea. Your Idea sounds great, although I'd take a DX2. > Back then my gaming machine was a DX-50 (a real 50, no > DX2-50 :), and it worked great for all games. A DX2-66 > is the closest you can get. Of course there's always an > AMD 5x86-160 ... Eventualy the fastest 486 of all times. > I had one overclocked to 200 MHz in a 50 MHz Board. > > In fact, when thinking about building a low speed Game > machine for early 90s games, I would go for a 60-200 MHz > Pentium, or at least a PCI bus 486. The problem is that these are all too quick to use with the buggiest Sierra game ever: Quest for Glory IV. Which is why I'm going for a slow 486. Peace... Sridhar From amcgee at freeshell.org Wed Jan 8 12:54:26 2003 From: amcgee at freeshell.org (Art McGee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: Programmable Calculators? In-Reply-To: <20030107143430.16237.88869.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: Hi Folks, I'm new to the list, and yes, I found my way via the SlashDot posting. Question: Do you include programmable calculators or PDAs under the label of "classic computers?" What about game machines? If this is in the FAQ, just tell me to RTFM. Thanks. Art McGee Communications & Technology Consultant amcgee@freeshell.org (510) 967-9381 Circuit Riders International NPO/NGO Media & Technology Calendar APC ActionApps Content Management System From sieler at allegro.com Wed Jan 8 12:56:11 2003 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: IBM 5114 In-Reply-To: <008e01c2b615$a9272ac0$513bcd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <3E1AE9AC.30530.33F996C2@localhost> Re: > There was no hard drive option for the > 5110 (or for that matter the 5100 or 5120). Not from IBM, but at least one company apparently had one. I read someone's resume about 3 months ago ... one of his jobs was working on a hard drive for a 5110 (or a 5100?). (Sorry, I've fogotten who it was, darn it, and the name of the company he worked for!) -- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html From sieler at allegro.com Wed Jan 8 12:57:56 2003 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: HP Integral? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030107092226.522fcf76@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: Message-ID: <3E1AEC77.10620.3404803B@localhost> Hi Joe, I'm also interested in HP Integral ROMs :) > >I have two IPCs, but no SE ROM for either. I have the BASIC ROM daughter > >board for the HP-UX ROM board for one of them, but not the other. I was > >going to try to come up with a way to dump the BASIC ROM, but never really > >got started with that project. > Stan -- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html From vance at neurotica.com Wed Jan 8 13:00:09 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: MPU-401 In-Reply-To: <1239-44175@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: Do you know if there's any difference in performance between the MPU-401 and MT-32? Or is it simply a difference in implementation. Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 8 Jan 2003, No Junk Mail wrote: > > the MPU-401 and MT-32. Speaking of which. What is an MT-32 like > > compared > > to the MPU-401? I've never seen one. > > IIRC the MT-32 is a full length card. I'm fairly sure that back in the day I picked one up. Can't remember how. The music from it was superb, at least for the time -- probably still. I think I played a lot of Wing Commander with it. > > Later I got a Sound Canvas, which I on-sold to a musical friend of mine. I think he got the MT-32 too. He used to have a Gravis which I lusted after somewhat, particularly because of the Gravis-only demos of the time. > > I should see if he still has any of that old stuff. He's a bit of a pack rat simply because he's always too busy to sort anything out. > > Chris J. > From nickmiller at charter.net Wed Jan 8 13:01:55 2003 From: nickmiller at charter.net (Nick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: Looking for a Heathkit H-8 LED Display Cover Message-ID: <025901c2b6c0$9f7360b0$7a00a8c0@themillers> I picked up a Heathkit H-8 the other day, well... I won an eBay auction but I got it for a good price. It looks to be in good condition and is full of cards but it is missing the red LED display cover. Does anyone know where I might find one? Also, are there any H-8 manuals out on the web? It would be nice to check this thing out a bit before I fire it up. My H-11 manuals were not much help. Thanks, Nick Miller -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030108/56b66cb4/attachment.html From vance at neurotica.com Wed Jan 8 13:03:41 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: MPU-401 In-Reply-To: <1041994273.2237.11.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: On 7 Jan 2003, Jeffrey H. Ingber wrote: > Just to clarify some items (ie. MT-32): > > The three original PC interfaces from Roland are as follows: > > MPU-IPC: 8-bit ISA card that connects to a beige, external breakout box > via. 25-pin D-sub connector. Has MIDI IN, OUT, and through as well as a > metronome conenctor. And you need to connect an external module to the MIDI i/o ports, which is what you use an MT-32 for, right? > MPU-IMC: Microchannel version of the above card. Oooh. I would *love* to have this. Is it made of unobtanium? > An MPU-IPC/IMC and MT-32 setup is functionally equivilent to the LAPC-1 > with a breakout box, although the breakout box is optional on the LAPC-1 > (it is not needed to produce music since the MT-32 is integrated into > the card itself). Was there a MCA version? Peace... Sridhar From timothy.sanford at worldnet.att.net Wed Jan 8 13:06:47 2003 From: timothy.sanford at worldnet.att.net (Timothy Sanford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000TX and 1400LT Message-ID: <000701c2b6c8$cd14c4c0$d65f5d0c@oemcomputer> I have 2 Tandy 1000 TXs, they are both 286s, although they lack hard drives. ELKS is the way to go for Linux on these machines. peabody From vance at neurotica.com Wed Jan 8 13:09:52 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: IBM 2.88 floppy drive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I want it. Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, William Donzelli wrote: > Does anyone need a 2.88 meg floppy drive, IBM FRU 64F4148 (a Mitsubishi > underneath)? Pulled out of something long ago, and I can only assume that > it is good. Free for shipping, which ought to be about four bucks. First > come first served! > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > From lthomp at teleport.com Wed Jan 8 13:13:03 2003 From: lthomp at teleport.com (Lynn Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: original apple portable Message-ID: We recently purchased an original Apple portable, model #M5120, at a garage sale. It came in the original black carrying case with the Apple logo. We're searching for any information about it, with the goal of selling it eventually. Any suggestions anyone can offer will be greatly appreciated. Lynn and Blake If you want something you never had, then you need to do something you've never done. Oprah Winfrey From david.ward at rtc-systems.co.uk Wed Jan 8 13:17:01 2003 From: david.ward at rtc-systems.co.uk (David Ward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: ldb4401 can be replaced by .....? Message-ID: <010e01c2b6ff$a7b0e920$7e00a8c0@SATISRTC> LDB4401 is a mini data cassette produced by Philips. We currently have over 100 in stock in anyone is interested: http://www.rtc-systems.co.uk Rgds, David Ward Sales engineer --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 30/12/02 From arthur.russell at teradyne.com Wed Jan 8 13:17:29 2003 From: arthur.russell at teradyne.com (Arthur Russell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: FPU, FAQ, and hardware for free References: <3E1AE314.57A19F55@icd.teradyne.com> Message-ID: <3E1C2485.8F678C41@icd.teradyne.com> Dear Classic Computing folks, All of the Apple hardware is spoken for at this point. I will post with more details on any Macintosh stuff that I have at some point. Thanks! Arthur From collison at cnri.reston.va.us Wed Jan 8 13:17:53 2003 From: collison at cnri.reston.va.us (Ron Collison) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: Radio Shack/Tandy 1400LT portable - anyone interested? Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030108084033.00b6ae40@mailbox.cnri.reston.va.us> A Radio Shack/Tandy 1400LT portable - lightly used - looks new - with case, manuals, software, and optional CRT - anyone interested? From collison at cnri.reston.va.us Wed Jan 8 13:18:19 2003 From: collison at cnri.reston.va.us (Ron Collison) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: Original IBM portable/lug'ble PC, suit case size - IBM's response to Compaq's original portable success Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030108084244.00b73af0@mailbox.cnri.reston.va.us> Original IBM portable/lug'ble PC, suit case size - IBM's response to Compaq's original portable success Does this have any value? Possible future collectible? Thanks for your input From mrbill at mrbill.net Wed Jan 8 13:18:43 2003 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: Original IBM portable/lug'ble PC, suit case size - IBM's response to Compaq's original portable success In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030108084244.00b73af0@mailbox.cnri.reston.va.us> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030108084244.00b73af0@mailbox.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <20030108151542.GA7573@mrbill.net> On Wed, Jan 08, 2003 at 08:43:37AM -0500, Ron Collison wrote: > Original IBM portable/lug'ble PC, suit case size - IBM's response to > Compaq's original portable success > Does this have any value? > Possible future collectible? > Thanks for your input I've got one of these, with "port expander", free for pickup in Austin, Texas. Bill -- bill bradford mrbill@mrbill.net austin, texas From vanluijk at optonline.net Wed Jan 8 13:19:07 2003 From: vanluijk at optonline.net (Eric vanLuijk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: Rare Mattel stuff for auction! Message-ID: <007e01c2b72a$e52609e0$d3fcbd18@vanluijk.org> The Intellivision Computer Module: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2086429973&rd=1 Fathom and DragonFire: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2086451470&rd=1 Please make sure that you check my other auctions too! Regards, Eric -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030108/6d259764/attachment.html From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Wed Jan 8 13:19:34 2003 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: Commodore SX-64 For Sale In-Reply-To: <47C91999C012D711A4520002A543702D03E5F9@TVARVRXCH2.mss.tva.gov> References: <47C91999C012D711A4520002A543702D03E5F9@TVARVRXCH2.mss.tva.gov> Message-ID: <1042052428.1100.5.camel@azure.subsolar> Yeah they are kinda rare, I remember wanting one and thinking they were rather cool when they first came out. I never got one, and switched to PCs not much later. The only one I have other came across was one at a local thrift store, but it did not power-up and rattled, so passed it up. On slashdot they had an article some time back where somebody took a perfectly functioning one gutted it and put a micro-atx in converting it to a regular PC. I was practically foaming at the mouth when I read that, that about as bad ruing a Original Apple Lisa and putting an iMac in the case. Grrr. Oh, HI! I'm new to the list. Regards, Paul On Tue, 2003-01-07 at 12:28, Cooper, Frank E. wrote: > I have a Commodore SX-64 for sale. This is the semi-portable Commodore > 64 with the built-in monitor. I think they are rather rare. > > Reply to: fecooper@tva.gov From bpope at wordstock.com Wed Jan 8 13:19:59 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: MPU-401 In-Reply-To: from "vance@neurotica.com" at Jan 7, 03 04:45:34 pm Message-ID: <200301081903.OAA29811@wordstock.com> And thusly vance@neurotica.com spake: > > The problem is that these are all too quick to use with the buggiest > Sierra game ever: Quest for Glory IV. Which is why I'm going for a slow > 486. Have you tried using Mo'Slo? Check it out at http://www.hpaa.com/moslo/ Cheers, Bryan From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 8 13:20:24 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Jan 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: > > The most difficult part was finding an AT compatible keyboard that > > fits the case. Compaq did make some (used in a 286 version of the > > Portable) but they're not easy to find. > Wouldn't a keyboard adapter work? Use the keyboard you got and just > adapt it to the motherboard. If you mean a cable adapter, NO WAY. On the other hand, you COULD remount the circuitry of an AT keyboard into a Compaq keyboard case, or make a box to go inline that would take the signals from the XT keyboard, and emulate the signals of an AT keyboard. Well, Tony could do it. If I had to do it, I'd probably use a PC (probably a Compaq) to do the task. The original Compaq "Portable 286" is basically the same case configuration as the original "Portable". Why not just start with it? It has the right keyboard, and is trivial to switch over. And they are cheaper than the original, since they are not yet "collector's items". (I sold a few for $10 each). -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Jan 8 13:21:01 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: Config info on HP1000 memory? In-Reply-To: Bob Shannon's message of "Tue, 07 Jan 2003 18:17:38 -0500" References: <20030103194106.N49330-100000@agora.rdrop.com> <3E1B6012.3010808@tiac.net> Message-ID: <200301081923.h08JNf5h072344@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Bob Shannon wrote: > I've got multiple 256KW boards working. Do you need the switch > configurations?? Thanks for jogging my memory on this, I've been carrying the manual around for a couple of days. Looks like the 12699H, 12746H, 12747H, and 12749H boards each have a set of switches or jumpers labelled with some subset of letters A through H, and how these are set selects the base address of the board. Jumper in or switch closed is a logical 0 and jumper out or switch open is a logical 1. A is 0x004000 B is 0x008000 C is 0x010000 D is 0x020000 E is 0x040000 F is 0x080000 G is 0x100000 H is 0x200000 Some boards have some of the jumpers/switches hard wired, others require you to set them certain ways. E.g. 12746H needs A out, G out, H in and 12749H claims that A, B, C, D, G, and H are all hardwired out. All boards appear as a single chunk of memory, so a 12749H board with 256KW can only appear at 0x000000-0x03ffff, 0x040000-0x07ffff, 0x080000-0x0bffff, or 0x0c0000-0x0fffff (these are the four 256KW chunks from 0 to 1024KW). Most boards appear to be limited to appearing below 1024KW. The 12746H appears to be limited to appearing below 512KW. -Frank McConnell From kth at srv.net Wed Jan 8 13:23:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: Chip Upgrades for 11/23 (was Re: 11/03 system on eBay sold) References: Message-ID: <3E1C7FCF.20208@srv.net> Will Jennings wrote: > Speaking of DIBOL, I need COS-300 for some of my 11/23s... In case you > didn't know, COS-300 is RT-11 with DIBOL layered on it or something.. > COS-500 is the same but its RSTS-based if I remember correctly.. > > Will J Anyone remember DMS-500(?) for RSTS? Predated RMS, and was probably the basis for much of RMS. However, to use it required almost 2/3's of the memory available to the program. From ipscone at msdsite.com Wed Jan 8 13:28:00 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: Original IBM portable/lug'ble PC, suit case size - IBM's response to Compaq's original portable success In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030108084244.00b73af0@mailbox.cnri.reston.va.us> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030108084244.00b73af0@mailbox.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <51209.130.76.32.14.1042054237.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Do you mean the 5155? I have a nice one of those. Paid less than $100 for it. Has an external floppy, original manuals and software. > Original IBM portable/lug'ble PC, suit case size - IBM's response to > Compaq's original portable success > Does this have any value? > Possible future collectible? > Thanks for your input From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 8 13:53:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: <20030108183101.14739.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > --- "Feldman, Robert" wrote: > > The keyboard used with an XT is different than that used with an AT and > > above. On Wed, 8 Jan 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I'll agree in the case of the Portable vs the Portable II, but for Try the "PORTABLE 286". It is the case configuration of the "portable", but is 286, and has an AT compatible keyboard. > some machines built during the transition, there were switchable > keyboards that would work with either... I'm using one now. I've But are you claiming that there were SWITCHABLE keyboards that would physically fit the "PORTABLE" case????? Your Keytronics will NOT fit and latch to the "PORTABLE" case. Although admittedly, I never felt that the keyboard used by Compaq fit properly. The length of travel of the latches was grossly inadequate for the intended usage. A very mild bump at the wrong angle would pop the keyboard off. Used to happen quite often to Compaq using yuppies on airport escalators. > had it for over 10 years. It came with an XT clone I bought off my > old college roommate... Paid him $100 for the PC, then a year or two > later, parted it out for $120 and kept the keyboard. Nothing remarkable > about it, but it seems to have withstood years of Wolf3D/Doom/Quake > with flying colors. The stamp on the bottom identifies it as a Key > Tronic EP3435XTATE (the switches let you select XT, AT or "Enhanced") > > -ethan From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 8 14:01:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: <20030108182535.58814.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Jan 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I have both an original dual-floppy Portable and a 286 Portable II. I > was recently attempting to use the Portable II to drive my UP600A > device programmer, but the PSU isn't strong enough to power the CRT, > the hard disk *and* a box of linear ICs. When you flip the UP600A > on, the PSU in the Portable shuts down for a moment, then comes back on. > I didn't think that it would survive lots of that treatment, so I > turned my attentions to the Compaq SLT/286 that's doing just fine. If that has one of the original hard disks, then a disproportionate amount of the power is goingto thehard disk. Replacing it with a more "modern" hard disk might free up enough power to dothe job. I found that using an ST-4096 was pushing the limits for Compaq portable power supplies. > At one time, I, too, entertained putting a more modern motherboard in > a portable. Given the keyboard issues and the mono CRT, it just doesn't Be aware that the internal CRT is EGA compatible! Although normally shipping with CGA, Compaq had an EGA board available. (Compaq video boards are recognizable by the extra dual row header in the middle of the board for connecting the internal monitor). There was also a special Compaq adapter available for the ATI "EGA Wonder". > seem worth the effort. Laptops aren't expensive anymore. I did notice > that the fellow who put a modern board in an SX-64 used a wireless > keyboard/mouse to get around the keyboard issue, but that means that > you have to lug around two parcels instead of one. IF you abandon the keyboard latching onto the case (in which case, why bother with the Compaq Portable at all??), then you could certainly cable any regular keyboard, such as a Keytronics. From allain at panix.com Wed Jan 8 14:01:37 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: Original IBM portable/lug'ble PC, suit case size - IBM's response to Compaq's original portable success References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030108084244.00b73af0@mailbox.cnri.reston.va.us> <51209.130.76.32.14.1042054237.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Message-ID: <03ed01c2b751$035c2680$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Original IBM portable/lug'ble PC, suit case size - IBM's response to > Compaq's original portable success > Does this have any value? So far your answers were: get one today for free, and, $100. I picked one up at VCFE1.0 for I think $1. As I was deciding throw/keep I discovered that its monitor had a useful 4 wire interface... 12V, NTSC video in, picture out, not bad. With a little more effort it was working. Now I wouldn't sell it for less than $40. FYI John A. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 8 14:08:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: Programmable Calculators? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Art McGee wrote: > Hi Folks, > I'm new to the list, and yes, I found my way via the > SlashDot posting. > Question: > Do you include programmable calculators or PDAs under the > label of "classic computers?" What about game machines? ..., and military radar systems, and 70s muscle cars, and . . . [NOTE: the '68 VW type three fool injection computer has been claimed] > If this is in the FAQ, just tell me to RTFM. Thanks. On cctalk, it is fairly loose. On cctech, all posts must be on-topic. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From Gary.Messick at itt.com Wed Jan 8 14:21:00 2003 From: Gary.Messick at itt.com (Messick, Gary) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: Looking for a Heathkit H-8 LED Display Cover Message-ID: <998FEBD9C16DD211881200A0C9D61AD704468C2A@ACDFWX3.acd.de.ittind.com> Nick, Seeing as you mentioned your H-11 manuals... I have an H-11 I'm trying to bring back to life. Is there any way I could borrow (or have you copy) your H-11 Operation manual. I have every H-11 manual except that one! I have H-11 Assembly, Serial, Parallel, H-27, etc. just not the H-11 operation. I've checked the PS (end of H-11 assembly), and everything *should be* fine, but no workee! I'm not sure where the problem lies. If you're unwilling to lend/copy the manual, could we spend some time e-mailing each other about various steps for checkout? Thanks, Gary (PS, I'm in Fort Wayne, Indiana if that matters any.) -----Original Message----- From: Nick [mailto:nickmiller@charter.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 9:50 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Looking for a Heathkit H-8 LED Display Cover I picked up a Heathkit H-8 the other day, well... I won an eBay auction but I got it for a good price. It looks to be in good condition and is full of cards but it is missing the red LED display cover. Does anyone know where I might find one? Also, are there any H-8 manuals out on the web? It would be nice to check this thing out a bit before I fire it up. My H-11 manuals were not much help. Thanks, Nick Miller ************************************ If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the addressee, please note that this message may contain ITT Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. You should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of ITT is neither endorsed by nor attributable to ITT. ************************************ From Gary.Messick at itt.com Wed Jan 8 14:24:01 2003 From: Gary.Messick at itt.com (Messick, Gary) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: Looking for a Heathkit H-8 LED Display Cover Message-ID: <998FEBD9C16DD211881200A0C9D61AD704468C2C@ACDFWX3.acd.de.ittind.com> Sorry, That was supposed to be private! Gary -----Original Message----- From: Nick [mailto:nickmiller@charter.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 9:50 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Looking for a Heathkit H-8 LED Display Cover I picked up a Heathkit H-8 the other day, well... I won an eBay auction but I got it for a good price. It looks to be in good condition and is full of cards but it is missing the red LED display cover. Does anyone know where I might find one? Also, are there any H-8 manuals out on the web? It would be nice to check this thing out a bit before I fire it up. My H-11 manuals were not much help. Thanks, Nick Miller ************************************ If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the addressee, please note that this message may contain ITT Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. You should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of ITT is neither endorsed by nor attributable to ITT. ************************************ From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Jan 8 14:26:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: ADM-3A lower case modifications - another thought? In-Reply-To: <002f01c2b683$47156270$0801a8c0@DrOccMed> References: <002f01c2b683$47156270$0801a8c0@DrOccMed> Message-ID: <2872.4.20.168.104.1042057748.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I was wondering if anyone has used an FPGA or similar programmable > device as a replacement for the unobtainable lower-case 2513 character > generator in the ADM-3A terminal. I am trying to avoid fabricating an > adapter board to use a 27xx EPROM since the pinouts are quite different. The pinouts of an FPGA are even *more* different. And programmable logic devices aren't really particularly good at replacing ROMs. The smaller ones don't have enough memory (or logic) to do it, and the larger ones are expensive and only are packaged in high-pin-count surface mount packages. If you get an EPROM or Flash memory chip in a PLCC or other small surface mount package, you should be able to make a small adapter board that plugs into the 2513 socket. Gateway Electronics closed their Denver store on December 31. Some of the other 6502 Group members and I organized a wake. We ordered a bunch of pizzas, and a good time was had by all, though we were certainly sorry to see them close. Apparently one of the founders died not too long ago, and his widow wanted to cash in her share of the business. Their main assets were the real estate, so they're selling that off. Apparently they're going to keep the Saint Louis store open, but in a new location. Anyhow, the reason I bring that up is that the last purchase I made there included their little plastic bin of 2513s, but judging by the markings they are all the common upper-case variant. I also bought some INS8073 and INS8070 parts, which are National Semiconductor microprocessors with and without a very tiny BASIC in ROM. The architecture is similar to the SC/MP, but not binary compatible. Now I need to find the data sheets and manual... I tried to buy their assembled demo unit of the "Animal Sounds Piano" kit, to give to my niece as a birthday gift and drive my sister insane. But they wouldn't sell it to me. They claimed it was going to be shipped back to headquarters in Saint Louis, but I think they really plan to smash it with a sledgehammer or take it to a shooting range. For any other sadists out there that want to drive family or (soon-to-be-former) friends crazy, you can buy the kit from Alltronics. or LNS Technologies. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 8 14:31:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: Original IBM portable/lug'ble PC, suit case size - IBM's response to Compaq's original portable success In-Reply-To: <03ed01c2b751$035c2680$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Jan 2003, John Allain wrote: > > Original IBM portable/lug'ble PC, suit case size - IBM's response to > > Compaq's original portable success > As I was deciding throw/keep I discovered that its monitor had > a useful 4 wire interface... 12V, NTSC video in, picture out, not > bad. With a little more effort it was working. Now I wouldn't sell > it for less than $40. FYI Although the composite video is nice, I prefer the EGA in the Compaq (requires replacing the CGA board with COMPAQ's EGA), and the Compaq case doesn't have drives blocking access to most of the expansion slots. From bernd at kopriva.de Wed Jan 8 15:12:00 2003 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: New Coprocessor card acquired - YARC Sprinter (AMD 29000) Message-ID: <18WNX4-1zMuPIC@fmrl02.sul.t-online.com> Hi, today I'm lucky to add another card to my (little) coprocessor card collection ... ... a YARC Sprinter card, which includes an AMD 29000 processor. As for most of my other cards, this one doesn't include any documentation or software :-( I do not expect to get any information from Yarc Systems/Trevor Marshall, as i got no aswers for my requests regardning my Yarc transputer card ... Can someone on the list help me ? Thanks Bernd Bernd Kopriva Phone: ++49-7195-179452 Weilerstr. 24 E-Mail: bernd@kopriva.de D-71397 Leutenbach Germany From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 8 16:34:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 (PSU's Polarity and Amps needed) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > Yes, you can use a 12V (or so) PSU -- it doesn't even have to be regulated. > > The coaxial power connector is centre positive. My question is, how the heck do you turn one on??? ? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 8 16:36:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jan 8, 3 11:11:45 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 758 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030108/333ae7f2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 8 16:36:35 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: Programmable Calculators? In-Reply-To: from "Art McGee" at Jan 7, 3 10:30:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2479 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030108/653c93c3/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 8 16:37:09 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: diversi-dial for apple IIe In-Reply-To: <000b01c2b5ef$04206bc0$1e01a8c0@netadelxp> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Live Wire wrote: > This is a longshot. But has anyone got Bill Bashams Diversi Dial for the > Apple IIe? > I've been searching for this for a few years, and have come up completely > empty. The people who have it want to keep it for nostalgia > (understandable). I would actually be connecting the Ddial to a terminal > server box (bsd or linux) and run the chat system live on a IIe. > > I guess I'll have to find the serial cards too ;) I in fact have this software, and a whole mess of serial cards for you! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 8 16:47:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 (PSU's Polarity and Amps needed) In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jan 8, 3 02:35:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 667 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030108/eb270e59/attachment.ksh From JOHNSOY at aol.com Wed Jan 8 17:27:00 2003 From: JOHNSOY at aol.com (JOHNSOY@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:11 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" Message-ID: <149.727b481.2b4e0e82@aol.com> I want to thank you for your answer concerning the Compaq Portable. It has all the manuals and it is in mint condition. It has about 75 disks that were in the box. It has the original books entitled Basic Version Reference Guide.(3) It has the Silver Logo on the case so it is one of the first made. They later upgraded them to a "plus" model which has the Gold Logo. I am really impressed with the condition. It also works. I ran across it at a consignment shop and it needed a home. I am not sure what I am going to do with it. Thanks again, YVONNE Y -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030108/28bdc715/attachment.html From doug_jackson at citadel.com.au Wed Jan 8 17:29:00 2003 From: doug_jackson at citadel.com.au (Doug Jackson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 (PSU's Polarity and Amps needed) Message-ID: Theres a small slide switch on the LHS of the case (from memory) Doug Jackson Director, Managed Security Services Citadel Securix +61 (0)2 6290 9011 (Ph) +61 (0)2 6262 6152 (Fax) +61 (0)414 986 878 (Mobile) Web: Offices in Melbourne, Sydney, Canberra, Hong Kong, Boston > -----Original Message----- > From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] > Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:35 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Amstrad PPC640 (PSU's Polarity and Amps needed) > > > On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Yes, you can use a 12V (or so) PSU -- it doesn't even have > to be regulated. > > > > The coaxial power connector is centre positive. > > My question is, how the heck do you turn one on??? > > ? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * CAUTION - The information in this message may be of a privileged or confidential nature intended only for the use of the addressee or someone authorised to receive the addressee's e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster@citadel.com.au. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Citadel Securix. Feel free to visit the Citadel Securix website! Click below. http://www.citadel.com.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030108/1a91d6ad/attachment.html From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 8 17:59:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030109000224.57137.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > On Wed, 8 Jan 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > I have... 286 Portable II. I was recently attempting to use [it] > > to drive my UP600A device programmer, but the PSU isn't strong enough > > to power the CRT, the hard disk *and* a box of linear ICs. > If that has one of the original hard disks, then a disproportionate > amount of the power is goingto thehard disk. Replacing it with a more > "modern" hard disk might free up enough power to dothe job. It has a 20MB 3.5" ST506/ST412 drive with bolt-on adapter card that lets it appear to be a native embedded IDE drive. The ISA controller is an ordinary Compaq-badged WD IDE/floppy card. > I found that using an ST-4096 was pushing the limits for Compaq portable > power supplies. No doubt! That one will put a noticable load on a DEC BA-23 chassis. > Be aware that the internal CRT is EGA compatible! Interesting. I had no idea. > (Compaq video boards are recognizable by the extra dual row header in > the middle of the board for connecting the internal monitor). That I did know. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 8 18:03:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: Original IBM portable/lug'ble PC, suit case size - IBM's response to Compaq's original portable success In-Reply-To: <03ed01c2b751$035c2680$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20030109000313.4094.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Allain wrote: > > Original IBM portable/lug'ble PC, suit case size - IBM's response to > > Compaq's original portable success > > Does this have any value? > > So far your answers were: get one today for free, and, $100. > > I picked one up at VCFE1.0 for I think $1. Got mine for free, too, after the previous owner pulled the 8087 out of it. :-( -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 8 18:06:15 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030109000505.29281.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > On Wed, 8 Jan 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > I'll agree in the case of the Portable vs the Portable II, but for > > > some machines built during the transition, there were switchable > > keyboards that would work with either... I'm using one now. I've > > But are you claiming that there were SWITCHABLE keyboards that would > physically fit the "PORTABLE" case????? No. I was attempting to specifically agree that in the case of the Portable/Portable II, you were stuck, but that with _other_ clones, you could have one keyboard that worked for both types of motherboards. Perhaps my language was insufficiently explicit. > Your Keytronics will NOT fit and latch to the "PORTABLE" case. Of course. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From ronbain at ix.netcom.com Wed Jan 8 18:14:41 2003 From: ronbain at ix.netcom.com (Ron Bain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: apple llc computer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000301c2b774$bb1fada0$714bfea9@oemcomputer> I have several apple II+ computers, several disk drives, a lot of software and accessories. I haven't set a price, as I don't know what a fair price would be. If you are serious, I will draft a complete inventory. What do you feel a fair market price would be? Ron -----Original Message----- From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Gene Wilson Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 7:01 AM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: apple llc computer What are you asking for the Apple II+ computers and how are they equipped? Gene -----Original Message----- From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ron Bain Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 11:00 PM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Cc: Ron Bain Subject: RE: apple llc computer Did you get any offers. The reason I ask is that I have two Apple II+ computers I want to sell along with drives, software, etc. Ron -----Original Message----- From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Randy Enochs Sr Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 5:21 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: apple llc computer i have an APPLE llc computer with everything, monitor,printer original manuals and a bunch of programs in mint condition.i would like to sell .please let me know if there is anyone interested. _____ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030108/278fdebd/attachment.html From cb at mythtech.net Wed Jan 8 18:44:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: apple llc computer Message-ID: >I have several apple II+ computers, several disk drives, a lot of >software and accessories. I'm always on the lookout for an inexpensive SCSI card or hard drive for the Apple II (any model II is fine, I know they were most common on the IIgs). I'm also on the lookout (again, inexpensive) for an AppleCat modem (just so I can finally have one, then call a friend that eons ago promised me he would share some software with me... but ONLY via modem, and he insisted that since he had an AppleCat, I had to have one too... just gotta get one and then bust his chops about it) -chris From peacock at simconv.com Wed Jan 8 19:29:00 2003 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: COS-300 and DMS-500 Message-ID: <21DCA3BC0EF6D3118AAC00D0B71CE07614F4EC@ntmain.simconv.com> > Speaking of DIBOL, I need COS-300 for some of my 11/23s... In case you > didn't know, COS-300 is RT-11 with DIBOL layered on it or something.. > COS-500 is the same but its RSTS-based if I remember correctly.. > What makes COS-300 hard to find is that most distributions were on RK05s, DEC's low end 2.5MB front load cartridge hard drive. These were not the most durable of drives and often succumbed to head crashes. However, it was relatively easy to replace the heads, about an hour's work for field service. COS-300 (Commercial Operating System 300) was an OEM package VARs sold to small businesses in the 70's. A typical system was a smaller PDP, an 11/34 or 11/03, RT-11, and the DIBOL compiler, along with something added by the VAR. There were several basic financial packages for the systems, GL/AP/AR/PY or accountant client write-up being typical markets. Your humble author developed some vertical apps for casinos and gas station accounting on a 11/34 COS-300 system. 25 years later I'm still supporting some of that legacy DIBOL code, now migrated to VMS and Alphas. Old business apps never die, they just migrate to the next box... COS-500 was for larger customers, who typically ran RSTS on 10 or more terminals. BASIC was more common on these systems, which could range up to a PDP-11/70. I seem to recall there once was some sort of 5.25" floppy distribution in the early 80's. It had RT-11 v4 and was primarily for 11/23 and 11/73 systems. This was for the odd dual floppy came out with, where two drives shared one spindle and the top floppy was upside down. These were single sided (400KB?) and used FILES-11 for the file system. DMS-500 was DECs answer to the PICK operating system. PICK had made substantial inroads in the medical field, especially hospitals, so DEC came up with the same "put everything in the database" concept. Real CODASYL databases were too big for PDP-11s so DMS-500 was the low end answer if you couldn't afford a PDP-10 or PDP-20. As I understand PICK eventually migrated to the IBM RS/6000 but DMS never got much support from DEC sales. I think there was some version for VMS but it wasn't a major player on the VAX compared to DBMS-32 and later Rdb and Oracle. Jack Peacock From phillipmilks at juno.com Wed Jan 8 21:21:19 2003 From: phillipmilks at juno.com (phillipmilks@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: Burroughs FAX Message-ID: <20030108.222437.-377073.1.phillipmilks@juno.com> Anybody interested in a vintage huge FAX ? I think it works but I haven't tested it. ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com From mranalog at attbi.com Wed Jan 8 23:01:00 2003 From: mranalog at attbi.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: Looking for a Heathkit H-8 LED Display Cover Message-ID: <3E1CFB89.26758186@attbi.com> Nick Miller wrote: > but it is missing the red LED display cover. Does anyone > know where I might find one? In case you don't find someone that is sitting on a pile of H-8 display covers.... Why not get creative? I can send you a scan of the display cover. Go down to TAP Plastic and have them cut a piece of plastic for you and polish the edges. Using a color printer, there about a half dozen ways to apply the lettering to the plastic, from using a overhead transparency to creating your own decals. Mounting the display cover can range from hot meld glue to custom made "ears". --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog ========================================= From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 8 23:10:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: How cctech works! (was: ./ does the Reuters article) In-Reply-To: <2752136848.20030106214206@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > Let me explain again how cctech works now. The simple answer is that cctech > and cctalk work like different views of the same list. Sort of like quantum mechanics in a way :) > cctalk@cla... --+ +--> post to cctalk > +--> classiccmp@cla... --+ > cctech@cla... --+ +--> post to cctech Perhaps this is more revealing: cctalk ------+-----------------------------> post to cctalk \ ^ Moderator Gate | \ | cctech -----------------------+-----+------> post to cctech Except that of course cctalk messages don't go through the Moderator Gate and then back up to cctalk (as the diagram would imply if you are reading too much into it ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 8 23:12:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: IBM 5114 In-Reply-To: <008e01c2b615$a9272ac0$513bcd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > The hard drive for the System 23 was the IBM 5247. I have one (in the > garage) it's a large cabinet-style drive that weighs about 120 lbs., and > I have never seen another (although I'm sure Sellam has one in storage). > It came in two varieties, as I recall, 17 or 33 MB. There was no hard > drive option for the 5110 (or for that matter the 5100 or 5120). Actually, I am quite lacking in the 5100 series line. I have only a System/23 (or it might be a DataMaster, haven't looked closely enough) that I got recently. I am working on a couple deals for a 5110, but the 5100 has been elusive thus far. The closest I've come is a 5100 manual that I happened across at some scumbag indoor flea market I used to frequent when I was doing work in Raleigh, North Carolina. So far, the Bait Theory has not held up in this instance :( Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 8 23:14:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 (PSU's Polarity and Amps needed) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Jan 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > The bigger problem is 'how do you turn on _off_'. There's a slide switch > on top, next to the fold-out display. In one position the machine runs on > internal batteries. In the other position it runs off the PSU plugged > into the coaxial power connector. If you set it to a position where the > selected power source doesn't exist (i.e. to the 'battery' position with > no batteries installed), the machine is turend off. So what does it mean when you slide it to the correct position (in this case I have the mains adapter) and it doesn't turn on? :( Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 8 23:15:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: Burroughs FAX In-Reply-To: <20030108.222437.-377073.1.phillipmilks@juno.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Jan 2003 phillipmilks@juno.com wrote: > Anybody interested in a vintage huge FAX ? I think it works but I haven't > tested it. Maybe. How huge are we talking? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 8 23:16:01 2003 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: COS-300 and DMS-500 Message-ID: Well the COS I need would be on RL02s... The machines are 11/23's, DECdatasystem 3something or others, and never had floppies or RK05s, just a ton of RL02s.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From univac2 at earthlink.net Thu Jan 9 00:16:00 2003 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (univac2@earthlink.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: How cctech works! (was: ./ does the Reuters article) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 1/8/03 11:10 PM, Sellam Ismail at foo@siconic.com wrote: > Perhaps this is more revealing: > > cctalk ------+-----------------------------> post to cctalk > \ ^ > Moderator Gate | > \ | > cctech -----------------------+-----+------> post to cctech > > Except that of course cctalk messages don't go through the Moderator Gate > and then back up to cctalk (as the diagram would imply if you are reading > too much into it ;) If this gets much more complicated, we're all going to need 3D accelerators to render the diagrams explaining how it all works. :-) -- Owen Robertson From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 9 00:30:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: Expanded Custom Apple //e BBS System and Software In-Reply-To: <004701c2b5ca$b9ddd760$8cd30844@spicer> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, John Edwards wrote: > This is the computer Bob Hardy used to create Zork Zero and many other > popular Apple // Games! 1Mb Ram, 60Mb HD, Custom GBBS `ProBOARD(tm) BBS > Software. This was the system used for many years for GBBS SysOP Support > and Software Development. System includes 28.8 BPS Modem, T-Switches and > everything from Null Modem Cable to Printer. Huge library of Apple // > Software and fully functioning BBS from the hay day of yesterlore! This > Super System can be customized to suite your needs and is a superb one > of a kind collectors item. ( It will go fast so if you are interested > reply ASAP! ) An interesting system but I doubt that it will "go fast" or even garner more than what any average Apple //e system would at auction. Unless you get an Apple ][ enthusiast who was very fond of GBBS (I myself hated it for the fact that it made it way to easy for any moron to start up a BBS) you'll probably be disappointed. At any rate, good luck. And please post the winning bid price here (if it's not too embarassing of course ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jwb at paravolve.net Thu Jan 9 00:54:01 2003 From: jwb at paravolve.net (James W. Brinkerhoff) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: VAXserver 3100 In-Reply-To: <20030107192306.E48831@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <20030106182421.52ca9152.jwb@paravolve.net> <20030107192306.E48831@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20030109015344.742bee43.jwb@paravolve.net> On Tue, 7 Jan 2003 19:23:06 +0100 Jochen Kunz wrote: > VAXstation 4100??? I don't know about such a thing. There are only the > VAXstation 4000-VLC, 4000-60 and 4000-9x. Perhaps you have a VAX / > MicroVAX 4000-100? If yes you are the owner of one of the fastetst > desktop VAXen ever made. I'll have to take another look at it, but it definatly says VAX Station.. And it's definatly stripped. I'll checkout the pinout of the cable and see what I can get. -jwb -- ## James W. Brinkerhoff ## ## GPG Key Sig: EBF1 6C24 0814 A3E9 6E93 649C 1F25 D807 E484 C9B9 From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jan 9 03:59:01 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: Somewhat OT: ISA Compaq TV Tuner Card In-Reply-To: <3E1BE579.16731.D007CCC@localhost> References: <3E1BE579.16731.D007CCC@localhost> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Jan 2003, Scarletd wrote: > I just recently picked up an old 8 bit ISA TV Tuner card, a Compaq > MG9910-20893. On the label it states "For use only with Compaq Computer > Products." > > Anyone here ever have one of these? If so, is it true that it can only > be used with an actual Compaq system, or will any DOS/Win 3.1 system > with ISA slots work? I need to know before I try to test it. If it > does require a Compaq system, then I will have to pull the hard drive > out of my Linux Box (a Presario 9546) and slap in another drive and > install DOS 6.22 and WfW 3.11. But if it will work in any system, I can > just add it to the old 486/DX-33 I set up just to run classic DOS games > without having to do the great hardware shuffle. I have one of these somewhere too. I ended up removing some of the labels to figure out who actually made it, and it turned out to be just an OEM version for Compaq. IIRC, it was made by a company called CEI. If you have any trouble finding the software for it, I'll see if I can dig up the stuff I archived. The board has a standard VESA interface, so you should be able to connect it to any standard VGA board's VESA header. I never did much with mine, as I wasn't able to find the proper connector to connect an antenna to it. I seem to remember the software worked under Win3.1. > Also, if it does require a Compaq system, has anyone out there used one > of these cards under Linux? Thanks AFAIK, there isn't any Linux support for it, but if you manage to get it working, let me know! -Toth From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jan 9 04:26:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: MPU-401 Message-ID: <20030109102934.9024.qmail@web21103.mail.yahoo.com> >> In fact, when thinking about building a low speed Game >> machine for early 90s games, I would go for a 60-200 MHz >> Pentium, or at least a PCI bus 486. > >The problem is that these are all too quick to use with the buggiest >Sierra game ever: Quest for Glory IV. Which is why I'm going for a slow >486. You could always try clocking a faster system to a lower rate, though - just wire up something so you can choose the clock speed you want before booting. If whatever audio setup you have gets its timing from the main system clock then you're out of luck as all the audio would sound wrong, but I image they all have their own on-board timing. I remember booting an old 486 at around 3MHz once, just to see if it would work. It did (took about ten minutes to boot!) but the beep on startup lasted for about a minute :-) cheers Jules __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From fm.arnold at gmx.net Thu Jan 9 04:34:13 2003 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: Chip Upgrades for 11/23 (was Re: 11/03 system on eBay sold) Message-ID: Message: 26 Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 16:27:54 -0500 (EST) From: Megan To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Chip Upgrades for 11/23 (was Re: 11/03 system on eBay sold) > >>Yes, there sure was a CIS chip for the 11/23[+]. And I am still looking > >I know... I have one (maybe two) KDF11-B boards with the CIS chip. > >>for one to upgrade one of mine. I do have the FPF-11 floating point >>processor board that alternately connects to the socket for the FIS >>chip, I have a FIS chip in another processor board, but the sockets for >>CIS are still vacant in both. > >It was my understanding that the EIS/FIS chip is only usable with >the 11/03 (11/2, PDT) machines (and the PDT requires the dual microm >in order to make space for it). Sorry to correct you, but EIS/FIS is an option to the F-11 uprocessor, hence for 11/23, 11/23+ and 11/24 computers. I'm not aware of any CS-firmware options for 11/03 or 11/02. >The CIS chip is a dual-wide >chip... it spans two chip spaces on the 11/23 and 11/23+ boards. > >>Once I get it / Should I ever get it, which languages could make use of >>it? - Assembler, of course, and COBOL, I think? > >You can always do it in assembler. As for cobol or other layered >products, you probably have to use a version which has been specifically >built to use those instructions (or can detect their availability on >the fly and use them). Dibol does that. regards, Frank Arnold From fm.arnold at gmx.net Thu Jan 9 04:34:41 2003 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: Chip Upgrades for 11/23 (was Re: 11/03 system on eBay sold) Message-ID: >From: Andreas Freiherr > >Yes, there sure was a CIS chip for the 11/23[+]. And I am still looking >for one to upgrade one of mine. I do have the FPF-11 floating point >processor board that alternately connects to the socket for the FIS >chip, I have a FIS chip in another processor board, but the sockets for >CIS are still vacant in both. > >Once I get it / Should I ever get it, which languages could make use of >it? - Assembler, of course, and COBOL, I think? > > Hi, The language that will use it is DIBOL, DIgital Buisiness Orieted Language. This was packaged in COS300 and COS500 os's. These were if I understood it right RT11 + Dibol and RSTS + Dibol respectively. I wonder, EIS/FIS chip as well as CIS are basicalley Roms that expand the microcode control store of the F-11 microprocessor. True? If so, whats the word-width and depth of this Rom, and what's the timing? Does anyone have doc's on this? Would be interesting to see if I could make a CIS "emulator" from standard components. I know that the CIS is a six-chip carier-assembly spanning two sockets on a 11/23+ CPU-board Regards, Frank Arnold From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Thu Jan 9 06:34:12 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: Chip Upgrades for 11/23 (was Re: 11/03 system on eBay sold) References: from "2003 06:37:46 PM" <200301070008.h0708m506909@shell1.aracnet.com> <200301071527.KAA109860720@shell.TheWorld.com> <3E1B1A35.10603@Vishay.com> <3E1B1DF1.BD9A8DE2@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <3E1D6CBF.60100@Vishay.com> Ed, be sure to lock your back door: I might sneak in and rip that chip from your 11/24! ;-) - It seems to be about as common as a cache board (KK11) for a PDP-11/34A. The latter I have (out of the only PDP-11 I ever paid for!), but my quest for a CIS chip has not turned up anything in years. In case you have (or can take) a picture of this chip, I'd appreciate a link. I assume it is a fairly large ceramic base (to span the pair of 40-pin sockets) with one or more actual chips and perhaps some small capacitors on top, somewhat similar to the /73 CPU chip, but larger? Regards, Andreas The Wanderer wrote: > Cobol is the only language afaik which does use it. > My original reply was just to find out how unusual this chip is, as I have > one here. It is currently stuck on an 11/24 board, occupying socket 4 & 5. > > Ed > > Andreas Freiherr wrote: > >>Yes, there sure was a CIS chip for the 11/23[+]. And I am still looking >>for one to upgrade one of mine. I do have the FPF-11 floating point >>processor board that alternately connects to the socket for the FIS >>chip, I have a FIS chip in another processor board, but the sockets for >>CIS are still vacant in both. >> >>Once I get it / Should I ever get it, which languages could make use of >>it? - Assembler, of course, and COBOL, I think? >> >>Megan wrote: >> >>>I don't believe that there ever was a CIS chip for the 11/03,02 >>>chipset. There was one for the 11/23[+]... >> >>-- >>Andreas Freiherr >>Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany >>http://www.vishay.com > > -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Jan 9 07:02:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: MPU-401 In-Reply-To: <20030109102934.9024.qmail@web21103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E1D81D6.15867.4373C9E4@localhost> > >> In fact, when thinking about building a low speed Game > >> machine for early 90s games, I would go for a 60-200 MHz > >> Pentium, or at least a PCI bus 486. > >The problem is that these are all too quick to use with the buggiest > >Sierra game ever: Quest for Glory IV. Which is why I'm going for a slow > >486. > You could always try clocking a faster system to a lower rate, though - just > wire up something so you can choose the clock speed you want before booting. If > whatever audio setup you have gets its timing from the main system clock then > you're out of luck as all the audio would sound wrong, but I image they all > have their own on-board timing. > I remember booting an old 486 at around 3MHz once, just to see if it would > work. It did (took about ten minutes to boot!) but the beep on startup lasted > for about a minute :-) Quite a good idea. I remember that late 486 boards offered settings of at least 25,30 and 33 MHz, often 40 MHz, while a 50 MHz was rather rare, although available on Intel boards (For the DX50). For early Pentium they offered usualy 25,30,33 and 50 MHz. If you use a AMD 5x86, these boards had often selectable multiplyers, so you may set them to anything from 25 MHz x1 to 40 MHz x4. In my opinion the best way to go. When a 25 MHz 486 is already to fast, you'll need a 8088 anyway. Another nice way is using a Pentium board with a K6 or K6-II, alas the lowest speed on such systems is usualy 25MHz x2.5 or 62MHz internal speed. As for myself, I have 2 systems with ad on AMD 5x86 on adaptor boards. One is used as a router, while the other is used to runn old software with low speed. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Jan 9 07:12:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: MPU-401/LAPC-1 In-Reply-To: <3E1D81D6.15867.4373C9E4@localhost> References: <20030109102934.9024.qmail@web21103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E1D840D.7551.437C71C6@localhost> I just taked to my friend. The cards are LAPC-1s. He still has two new units, and he'd be willing to part for 40 Euro each (~42 USD), plus shipping. So if someone still wants to build a early 90s game PC, just drop me a note. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From lhammer610 at erols.com Thu Jan 9 09:03:30 2003 From: lhammer610 at erols.com (Larry Hammer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: Mac Portable M5120 Message-ID: I have a Mac Portable M5120. It boots (when the hard drive is given enough time) and comes with the original carrying case. Does anyone have any idea how much this is worth? How should I sell it? Thanks. From Qstieee at aol.com Thu Jan 9 09:11:08 2003 From: Qstieee at aol.com (Qstieee@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: VAXserver 3100 Message-ID: <1bd.1a9d74cd.2b4eeb7c@aol.com> To find DEC MMJ cables, go to http://catalog.blackbox.com/BlackBox/templates/blackbox/search.asp and look for keywords DEC MMJ. You will probably need at male-male MMJ and a female MMJ to DB9/DB25. AS with any serial connection, verify pins (on a DB-25) 2-7 and 3-7 (i.e., make sure terminal/PC is transmitting on one line, DEC VAX is transmitting on the other). I usually do this with a VOM; transmit will be a strong (5-15 VDC) signal; receive may be around 0. Usually you will get a >>> prompt from VAX firmware. It will accept a help command and you can do "show devices", then try "boot dua0:" or some other disk device that's listed (they are 99% devices beginning with "d"). Of course you may get a very first product/CPU ID, then some testing messages. You are hoping that it progresses through the self-tests and gets you to the >>> firmware prompt. Often >>> will take a "help" command too. Often you need to send "delete" and not "backspace." Try 9600/8/N/1 settings. Also probe the Compaq, Montagar, and Process sites. With the VMS hobbyist program you can get going pretty well these days. From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 9 09:38:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: HP 7970 E spool disk drive (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Rajat followed up and told me he bought this at auction and had no use for it so he wanted to either sell it or donate it. Anyone up for shipping costs on a 100lbs piece of computer gear from India? On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I don't know what Rajat wants exactly but this is cool. VCF India? > > :) > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:58:24 +0530 > From: rajatkakkar > To: donate@vintage.org > Subject: HP 7970 E spool disk drive > > Respected Sir / Madam, > > I am having HP 7970 E spool disk drive at my home in India, I had got it through an auction and > > would like it to be put to some use. > > I look forward to you for this matter. > > Awaiting reply. > > Regards > > Rajat Kakkar > > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jan 9 09:52:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: HP 7970 E spool disk drive (fwd) References: Message-ID: <007201c2b7f7$68f83fa0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> *sigh* I have been wanting another 7970E for a long time, just seems like the timing has been wrong every time. Wonder just what shipping from india would be? Probably a LOT! --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From avickers at solutionengineers.com Thu Jan 9 10:24:01 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: Woohoo! What a find! Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030109161803.019a1eb0@slave> Today, I picked up (for just the cost of petrol getting there :) a Mator Shark hard-drive for CBM PETs. All 22meg of it! And it WORKS! Sounds like a jet engine when you turn it on, and it's about the size of Texas, but waaay cool :) Also got a flakey 3032 - I think there's a ROM problem, as it displays a line from the monitor (debug monitor, that is) with a wildly-flashing cursor, and no k/b input accepted. Of course, the latter may be due to just a dodgy keyboard, so this one looks like a bit of a project job. Plus assorted other gubbins, some of which is probably too new for this n/g (Amiga, +4, a 4030 floppy drive, 3 printers, an Amiga HDD & C64 serial->IEEE488 i/f box). Ho boy, am I in 7th heaven right now :) -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From bpope at wordstock.com Thu Jan 9 10:32:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: Woohoo! What a find! In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030109161803.019a1eb0@slave> from "Adrian Vickers" at Jan 9, 03 04:26:48 pm Message-ID: <200301091633.LAA21598@wordstock.com> And thusly Adrian Vickers spake: > > Today, I picked up (for just the cost of petrol getting there :) a Mator > Shark hard-drive for CBM PETs. All 22meg of it! And it WORKS! Is this a third-party HD? > > Sounds like a jet engine when you turn it on, and it's about the size of > Texas, but waaay cool :) A pic would be nice! :) > Plus assorted other gubbins, some of which is probably too new for this n/g > (Amiga, +4, a 4030 floppy drive, 3 printers, an Amiga HDD & C64 > serial->IEEE488 i/f box). What type of Amiga and Amiga HDD? > > Ho boy, am I in 7th heaven right now :) *Very* nice finds!!!!! Cheers, Bryan From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Jan 9 10:51:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: HP 7970 E spool disk drive (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Rajat followed up and told me he bought this at auction and had no use for > it so he wanted to either sell it or donate it. > > Anyone up for shipping costs on a 100lbs piece of computer gear from > India? If you're up for paying duties on around 70% of *new acquisition cost*, backed up by *the original (NOT a copy) manufacturers invoice* -OR- the right amount of discrete 'speed money' to the right person (you hope), which 'speed money' will be a substantial fraction of the original duties, and *then* you pay the re-crating (because the customs guys tear this stuff apart and then throw everything back in what's left of your box and some guy from the villages comes and slops 3 feet of cheap tape on it... and then you pay the actual shipping... *then* you deal with customs here in the US... AND you pretty much need to be there to take care of the little 'derailments' as they continually arise. Doing this long distance with no representative there, would be impossible. Been there, done that more than once, was going to get the t-shirt but I had to give it away as a bribe. The company I worked for in India (in '01) bought a big SGI Onyx from a guy in Wisconsin who refurbs them and sells them on eBay. We gave US$7K, including crate and ship. We had to have a 'Chartered Engineer's Certificate' (a European group of appraisal and capital equipment inspectors, not found in the US) and of course the 'original factory invoice'. "Negotiations" began... four months later, we had to pay just US$22K in duties, plus 'speed money' plus 'storage'.... originally the bastards wanted 73% of *new cost* of the Onyx - it was over $300K new. That's one of the reasons there is so little used gear availale in India - everyone hangs on desperately to whatever they have. Cheers Swami John From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 9 11:00:00 2003 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: Chip Upgrades for 11/23 (was Re: 11/03 system on eBay sold) Message-ID: I guess I could scan the CIS chip.. I know I have at least 3 or 4 of them. Will J _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From avickers at solutionengineers.com Thu Jan 9 11:20:01 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: Woohoo! What a find! In-Reply-To: <200301091633.LAA21598@wordstock.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030109161803.019a1eb0@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030109170556.019ae788@slave> At 16:33 09/01/2003, you wrote: >And thusly Adrian Vickers spake: > > > > Today, I picked up (for just the cost of petrol getting there :) a Mator > > Shark hard-drive for CBM PETs. All 22meg of it! And it WORKS! > >Is this a third-party HD? Yup, made by a British company (Mator, oddly enough ;), who went into liquidation in 1993. I found only 2 on-line references to Mator Shark - the guy I picked the drive up from, and a disc listing (on ICPUG's site IIRC) with a utility for it. Unfortunately, it's been used as a C64 hard-drive, which means all of the PET utilities are missing; which is a bugger as it means I need to somehow write a routine to test each sector, unless I can find a copy of the original utility somewhere. Maybe ICPUG have a copy somewhere... > > > > Sounds like a jet engine when you turn it on, and it's about the size of > > Texas, but waaay cool :) > >A pic would be nice! :) Soon, soon! I only just got it home! I also hope to get a sound sample of it winding up, because it's well worth it. I've measured it too: 21" by 14.5" by 6.5" (dwh) > > Plus assorted other gubbins, some of which is probably too new for this > n/g > > (Amiga, +4, a 4030 floppy drive, 3 printers, an Amiga HDD & C64 > > serial->IEEE488 i/f box). > >What type of Amiga and Amiga HDD? A500, and the HDD is an Impact Series II by Great Valley Products Inc. I don't know anything more about it yet, I'm too busy drooling near (not on...) the Shark :) -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From cb at mythtech.net Thu Jan 9 12:13:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: Mac Portable M5120 Message-ID: >I have a Mac Portable M5120. It boots (when the hard drive is given enough >time) and comes with the original carrying case. > >Does anyone have any idea how much this is worth? How should I sell it? Probably under $100 Try posting to the LEM Swap list (go to www.lowendmac.com, look under mail lists, subscribe, post). There are some collectors there. Or try eBay. Just don't hold out for a grand, it isn't likely to happen (won't say it won't, I think we all agree we have seen some pretty insane eBay deals go thru). -chris From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jan 9 12:38:01 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: Chip Upgrades for 11/23 (was Re: 11/03 system on eBay sold) In-Reply-To: Frank Arnold "Chip Upgrades for 11/23 (was Re: 11/03 system on eBay sold)" (Jan 9, 11:36) References: Message-ID: <10301091841.ZM28338@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 9, 11:36, Frank Arnold wrote: > From: Megan > >It was my understanding that the EIS/FIS chip is only usable with > >the 11/03 (11/2, PDT) machines (and the PDT requires the dual microm > >in order to make space for it). > > Sorry to correct you, but EIS/FIS is an option to the F-11 uprocessor, hence > for 11/23, 11/23+ and 11/24 computers. I'm not aware of any CS-firmware options > for 11/03 or 11/02. No, Megan is correct. EIS/FIS is an option (a single 40-pin MICROM IC called a KEV11) on the 11/03 KD11 processors. The relevant instructions are built-in on the 11/23 and 11/24 KDF11 processors. The options for the KDF11 are KEF11-BB CIS (dual-width), DC304 MMU chip, and KEF11-AA floating point. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From gmanuel at gmconsulting.net Thu Jan 9 12:53:09 2003 From: gmanuel at gmconsulting.net (G Manuel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? Message-ID: Hi Everyone, I am new to the list and really love it already. I was wondering if anyone knew if there was a resource, like Kelley Blue Book sort of, for vintage computer pricing? I have several to sell and several I would like to get, but I have no idea what to ask or expect to pay for them (or even if they are collectible for that matter LOL). Any help would be appreciated. I am not looking for a book per se, but some place (a website maybe?) to get some ball park figures. Thanks, Greg Manuel From archivesoftware at celebritydirect.net Thu Jan 9 12:53:50 2003 From: archivesoftware at celebritydirect.net (Cord G. Coslor - Archive Software) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: ScanSet Temat HE 415-B ???? References: Message-ID: <00c701c2b79b$748ff300$275986d1@earthlink.net> Hello ~ I am new to this list and have found an item that I need some help with. Well.... I kind of am new.... I've been away from the list (and collecting classics) for several years (4?) doing other endeavors, but am ready to dust off the old classics and get back into the hobby. I basically specialize in the old 8-bits, game consoles, etc., and currently have about 300 different machines. Anyway, at a "flea market" I came across a yellowish-tan cased integrated keyboard/monitor unit, with the appearance of being late 70s vintage. The monitor was probably 7 inches wide, and the keyboard was pretty laid out pretty tightly. A compact unit overall. No disk drives, etc.... Upon further review, I found it is called a Scanset -- model HE 415-B -- and apparently was made by TEMAT. I have been unable to find any additional information on this computer. Can any of you help? Sincerely, CORD G. COSLOR Archive Software www.ArchiveSoftware.net (under development) ----- | Celebrity Direct Entertainment | 49 Halsey Dr. - Hutchinson, KS - 67502 | (620) 665-8366 | www.CelebrityDirect.net * CDE@CelebrityDirect.net From mike at ambientdesign.com Thu Jan 9 12:55:36 2003 From: mike at ambientdesign.com (mike@ambientdesign.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000TX and 1400LT In-Reply-To: <686-55583@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030110000012.015d5580@pop3.ihug.co.nz> At 11:15 8/01/03 +1100, you wrote: >From memory the Tandy range of PCs of that vintage used a "Tandy Graphcis Adaptor". I believe that was 16 colours at 320x200, but only 4 colours at any higher res. The Tandy was the poor man's EGA. Sure, low-res games were 16 colours, but high-res apps basically had to be in CGA mode. >I would imagine that the connector was one of those round RGB connectors like the Atari 8-bits. But that's a guess. Here's an example of the 1000EX I have: http://www.homecomputer.de/pages/f_info.html?Tandy_1000EX.html The one I have has a standard CGA-looking video connector, and this page lists it as producing 16 colours, so I'm guessing it's CGA. I've managed to get a good picture out of it on the monitor now, but it refuses to sync - I can't get better than a vertically rolling picture. I'll win out in the end though, dammit. Guess what I just found though... http://support.tandy.com/support_accessories/doc4/4397.htm Comparing to: http://www.monitorworld.com/faq_pages/q17_page.html The CM-5 is a CGA monitor, so I think it's safe to assume the 1000EX is CGA as well. Superb, so much for that little mystery, I hope I'll finish resurrecting the monitor tonight! Thanks for the inspiration. :-) >BTW: Any other Australians here. Particularly one that might be interested in a works-but-no-hard-drive Silicon Graphics Personal Iris. I was going to use it for a PC case mod, but too much of it still works. Well, I'm in New Zealand; not really close enough to make use of your SGI, but maybe someone else will show up! I wonder how many of us there are in the Aus/NZ region. Probably quite a few. Mike. From mike at ambientdesign.com Thu Jan 9 12:56:05 2003 From: mike at ambientdesign.com (mike@ambientdesign.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000TX and 1400LT In-Reply-To: <3E1B5E26.23750.20F91FEB@localhost> References: <686-55583@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030110000018.00e944e0@pop3.ihug.co.nz> At 23:09 7/01/03 -0600, you wrote: > My 1000SX has the DE9 connector for RGBI as well as >RCA connectors for audio and video. There were several >monitors. VM-4 mono, CM-5 RGBI Color, and CM-10 Hi- >Res Color. The video was better than CGA but not quite >as good as EGA on my CM-5 monitor. Thanks for the info there - it verifies the info I found tonight. Mine came with a CM-5 monitor (the one with the chopped off cable). I found this info: http://support.tandy.com/support_accessories/doc4/4397.htm Which verifies that the CM-5 is a CGA (or RGBI as you say) monitor, and which I think will enable me to fix mine. Mike. From cdhall at vt.edu Thu Jan 9 12:56:32 2003 From: cdhall at vt.edu (Chris Hall) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: H89, REMark, Sextant In-Reply-To: <3E1CB658.7000704@oz.net> Message-ID: <001001c2b7d9$0c25df30$10bfad80@aoe.vt.edu> Folks, I emailed a couple of days ago about the H89 and back issues of REMark and Sextant that I have. I was surprised at the level of interest. Someone suggested I post the items on ebay and I have done that. H89 is at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2087562 690 REMark issues are at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2243&item=2905394 499 Sextant issues are at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2243&item=2905396 513 Thank you, Chris ----- Christopher D. Hall Aerospace and Ocean Engineering Virginia Tech Blacksburg, VA 24061-0203 v: (540) 231-2314 f: (540) 231-9632 e: cdhall@vt.edu w: http://www.aoe.vt.edu/~chall From vance at neurotica.com Thu Jan 9 12:56:57 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: VAXserver 3100 In-Reply-To: <1bd.1a9d74cd.2b4eeb7c@aol.com> Message-ID: Myself, I use Cat5e that I have lying around, and http://www.cables.com/ has $0.19 MMJ connectors, and they're one day away from me by UPS ground. Peace... Sridhar On Thu, 9 Jan 2003 Qstieee@aol.com wrote: > To find DEC MMJ cables, go to > http://catalog.blackbox.com/BlackBox/templates/blackbox/search.asp > and look for keywords DEC MMJ. > You will probably need at male-male MMJ and a female MMJ to DB9/DB25. > AS with any serial connection, verify pins (on a DB-25) 2-7 and 3-7 (i.e., > make sure terminal/PC is transmitting on one line, DEC VAX is transmitting on > the other). I usually do this with a VOM; transmit will be a strong (5-15 > VDC) signal; receive may be around 0. > Usually you will get a >>> prompt from VAX firmware. It will accept a help > command and you can do "show devices", then try "boot dua0:" or some other > disk device that's listed (they are 99% devices beginning with "d"). > Of course you may get a very first product/CPU ID, then some testing > messages. You are hoping that it progresses through the self-tests and gets > you to the >>> firmware prompt. Often >>> will take a "help" command too. > Often you need to send "delete" and not "backspace." Try 9600/8/N/1 settings. > Also probe the Compaq, Montagar, and Process sites. With the VMS hobbyist > program you can get going pretty well these days. > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jan 9 12:58:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: Chip Upgrades for 11/23 (was Re: 11/03 system on eBay sold) In-Reply-To: Frank Arnold "Chip Upgrades for 11/23 (was Re: 11/03 system on eBay sold)" (Jan 9, 11:36) References: Message-ID: <10301091857.ZM28347@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 9, 11:36, Frank Arnold wrote: > I wonder, EIS/FIS chip as well as CIS are basicalley Roms that expand the > microcode control store of the F-11 microprocessor. True? Almost. They are ROMs, but EIS/FIS is for the 11/03 KD11 processor, not the F-11 family. CIS is a set of microcode ROMs for the F-11. There's quite a lot of information in the KDF11 CPU Module User Guide, and probably more in a technical manual. Basically, it seems that the the microcode is stored in a device with two bidirectional 16-bit busses (MIB and CDAL). MIB is a multiplexed bus. Part of the time it outputs the current microinstruction and the rest of the time it receives control signals from the CPU. The CDAL bus (which is actually a 22-bit bus, but only 16 bits are presented to the option sockets) is what eventually connects to the external BDAL bus, but it's also used internally for control signals. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From phillipmilks at juno.com Thu Jan 9 13:18:15 2003 From: phillipmilks at juno.com (phillipmilks@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: Burroughs FAX Message-ID: <20030109.112036.27064.631884@webmail1.wlv.untd.com> Size ~~24"D x 30"W x 12"H ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com From ipscone at msdsite.com Thu Jan 9 13:45:01 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <58022.130.76.32.21.1042141718.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> If there was, it would be woefully out of date. The internet and sites like ebay have created a whole new audience. Supply and demand works but with an expanded listing and selling audience, the imperical data on prices is yet to be analyzed. > Hi Everyone, > > I am new to the list and really love it already. I was wondering if > anyone knew if there was a resource, like Kelley Blue Book sort of, for > vintage computer pricing? I have several to sell and several I would > like to get, but I have no idea what to ask or expect to pay for them > (or even if they are collectible for that matter LOL). Any help would be > appreciated. I am not looking for a book per se, but some place (a > website maybe?) to get some ball park figures. > > Thanks, > Greg Manuel From bpope at wordstock.com Thu Jan 9 13:49:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? In-Reply-To: <58022.130.76.32.21.1042141718.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> from "Mike" at Jan 9, 03 11:48:38 am Message-ID: <200301091950.OAA07053@wordstock.com> What about Michael Nadeau's book? For more info about it go to: http://www.vintage.org/special/collectible.php Cheers, Bryan And thusly Mike spake: > > If there was, it would be woefully out of date. The internet and sites > like ebay have created a whole new audience. > > Supply and demand works but with an expanded listing and selling audience, > the imperical data on prices is yet to be analyzed. > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > I am new to the list and really love it already. I was wondering if > > anyone knew if there was a resource, like Kelley Blue Book sort of, for > > vintage computer pricing? I have several to sell and several I would > > like to get, but I have no idea what to ask or expect to pay for them > > (or even if they are collectible for that matter LOL). Any help would be > > appreciated. I am not looking for a book per se, but some place (a > > website maybe?) to get some ball park figures. > > > > Thanks, > > Greg Manuel From dtwright at uiuc.edu Thu Jan 9 13:57:01 2003 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:12 2005 Subject: OT Problems loading Linux In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030105154340.00b2dc10@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <20030109200021.GB6209922@uiuc.edu> There's a better way to do this -- get some UNIX boot disk, start the machine off from it and run "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda bs=512 count=1". This will overwrite the partition table & boot area of hda (in this example) with a giant NULL! That will REALLY remove any partitioning wankiness that other programs might have caused, rather then just deleting partitions and leaving an empty, but possibly still broken, table... Alain BLANC said: > Try to use FDISK (MS-DOS) or PQMAGIC or simply the linux toll to erase all > the parts on the disk ! > > Alan > Reply-To: > From: "Charles E. Fox" > To: > Subject: Fwd: OT Problems loading Linux > Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:44:19 +0100 > X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 > > > >Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 06:57:39 -0500 > >To: cctakl@classiccmp.org > >From: "Charles E. Fox" > >Subject: OT Problems loading Linux > > > >Does anyone have any suggestions on how I should prepare an old (6 gig) > >hard drive to receive Linux? The installation program keeps telling me > >that the partitions are full. > > > >Thanks > > > > Charlie Fox > > > > Charles E. Fox Video Production > > 793 Argyle Rd. > > Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 > > 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net > > Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" > > at http://chasfoxvideo.com > > > Charles E. Fox Video Production > 793 Argyle Rd. > Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 > 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net > Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" > at http://chasfoxvideo.com > > > - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From clint at mutantindustries.com Thu Jan 9 14:17:01 2003 From: clint at mutantindustries.com (Clinton Baker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: OT Problems loading Linux In-Reply-To: <20030109200021.GB6209922@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: If you use the dd command, you'll probably need to run sync afterwards to ensure that everything gets updated correctly. If the partition table is really corrupt, a simpler method may just be to run fdisk /mbr (I'm assuming you have a DOS boot disk or DOS/Windows is on the drive currently). In either case, see if fdisk (DOS or Linux) can see the current partition info and remove it on it's own. clint -- On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, Dan Wright wrote: > There's a better way to do this -- get some UNIX boot disk, start the machine > off from it and run "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda bs=512 count=1". This will > overwrite the partition table & boot area of hda (in this example) with a > giant NULL! That will REALLY remove any partitioning wankiness that other > programs might have caused, rather then just deleting partitions and leaving > an empty, but possibly still broken, table... > > Alain BLANC said: > > Try to use FDISK (MS-DOS) or PQMAGIC or simply the linux toll to erase all > > the parts on the disk ! > > > > Alan > > > Reply-To: > > From: "Charles E. Fox" > > To: > > Subject: Fwd: OT Problems loading Linux > > Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:44:19 +0100 > > X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 > > > > > > >Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 06:57:39 -0500 > > >To: cctakl@classiccmp.org > > >From: "Charles E. Fox" > > >Subject: OT Problems loading Linux > > > > > >Does anyone have any suggestions on how I should prepare an old (6 gig) > > >hard drive to receive Linux? The installation program keeps telling me > > >that the partitions are full. > > > > > >Thanks > > > > > > Charlie Fox > > > > > > Charles E. Fox Video Production > > > 793 Argyle Rd. > > > Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 > > > 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net > > > Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" > > > at http://chasfoxvideo.com > > > > > > Charles E. Fox Video Production > > 793 Argyle Rd. > > Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 > > 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net > > Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" > > at http://chasfoxvideo.com > > > > > > > > - Dan Wright > (dtwright@uiuc.edu) > (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) > > -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- > ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, > For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' > Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan > From msspcva at yahoo.com Thu Jan 9 14:20:00 2003 From: msspcva at yahoo.com (Clayton Frank Helvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: Paging John Willis Message-ID: <20030109202250.11211.qmail@web41110.mail.yahoo.com> John, I've been trying to get up with you for over a month to find out if that CDROM drive worked or not. Please contact me off-list. Thanks, Frank ===== = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= Clayton Frank Helvey, President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com ============================================================ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From dtwright at uiuc.edu Thu Jan 9 15:02:00 2003 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: OT Problems loading Linux In-Reply-To: References: <20030109200021.GB6209922@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <20030109210507.GE6209922@uiuc.edu> You should do the dd then reboot, but I've never had it fail to take care of weird partitioning problems... Clinton Baker said: > If you use the dd command, you'll probably need to run sync afterwards to > ensure that everything gets updated correctly. If the partition table is > really corrupt, a simpler method may just be to run fdisk /mbr (I'm > assuming you have a DOS boot disk or DOS/Windows is on the drive > currently). In either case, see if fdisk (DOS or Linux) can see the > current partition info and remove it on it's own. > > clint > > -- > > > > On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, Dan Wright wrote: > > > There's a better way to do this -- get some UNIX boot disk, start the machine > > off from it and run "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda bs=512 count=1". This will > > overwrite the partition table & boot area of hda (in this example) with a > > giant NULL! That will REALLY remove any partitioning wankiness that other > > programs might have caused, rather then just deleting partitions and leaving > > an empty, but possibly still broken, table... > > > > Alain BLANC said: > > > Try to use FDISK (MS-DOS) or PQMAGIC or simply the linux toll to erase all > > > the parts on the disk ! > > > > > > Alan > > > > > Reply-To: > > > From: "Charles E. Fox" > > > To: > > > Subject: Fwd: OT Problems loading Linux > > > Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:44:19 +0100 > > > X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 > > > > > > > > > >Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 06:57:39 -0500 > > > >To: cctakl@classiccmp.org > > > >From: "Charles E. Fox" > > > >Subject: OT Problems loading Linux > > > > > > > >Does anyone have any suggestions on how I should prepare an old (6 gig) > > > >hard drive to receive Linux? The installation program keeps telling me > > > >that the partitions are full. > > > > > > > >Thanks > > > > > > > > Charlie Fox > > > > > > > > Charles E. Fox Video Production > > > > 793 Argyle Rd. > > > > Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 > > > > 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net > > > > Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" > > > > at http://chasfoxvideo.com > > > > > > > > > Charles E. Fox Video Production > > > 793 Argyle Rd. > > > Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 > > > 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net > > > Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" > > > at http://chasfoxvideo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Dan Wright > > (dtwright@uiuc.edu) > > (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) > > > > -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- > > ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, > > For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' > > Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan > > - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Jan 9 15:03:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: Chip Upgrades for 11/23 (was Re: 11/03 system on eBay sold) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4977.4.20.168.176.1042146346.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Megan wrote: > It was my understanding that the EIS/FIS chip is only usable with the > 11/03 (11/2, PDT) machines (and the PDT requires the dual microm in > order to make space for it). Frank wrote: > Sorry to correct you, but EIS/FIS is an option to the F-11 uprocessor, > hence for 11/23, 11/23+ and 11/24 computers. Sorry to correct you, but Megan was right. The 11/23, 11/23+, and 11/24 have EIS as a standard part of the instruction set, and no hardware or microcode FIS support was available. The available options were the KTF11-AA MMU chip, KEF11-AA floating point chip (which requires the MMU chip), the FPF11 hardware floating point board, and the KEF11-BB CIS hybrid (containing six chips!). There apparently was an earlier KEF11-BA CIS for the 11/23 etc., which was packaged differently. FIS was only available as an option on the 11/03 family (KEV11) and the 11/35 and 11/40 (KE11-F). CIS was an option on the 11/23 family (KEF-11Bx), 11/44 (KE44), and 11/74 (KE74). The KE74 should work on some late-model 11/70 systems based on the KB11-CM CPU (vs. the standards KB11-B and KB11-C), but it is unknown whether any KE74s were actually sold. The 11/03 family support the KEV11 option, which adds EIS and FIS. The 11/03 can support the KUV11 writable control store, which can be used for EIS/FIS or user-written microcode. There is no CIS option for the 11/03; there's not enough microcode address space available to implement it. From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Jan 9 15:03:16 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: Chip Upgrades for 11/23 (was Re: 11/03 system on eBay sold) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4977.4.20.168.176.1042146346.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Megan wrote: > It was my understanding that the EIS/FIS chip is only usable with the > 11/03 (11/2, PDT) machines (and the PDT requires the dual microm in > order to make space for it). Frank wrote: > Sorry to correct you, but EIS/FIS is an option to the F-11 uprocessor, > hence for 11/23, 11/23+ and 11/24 computers. Sorry to correct you, but Megan was right. The 11/23, 11/23+, and 11/24 have EIS as a standard part of the instruction set, and no hardware or microcode FIS support was available. The available options were the KTF11-AA MMU chip, KEF11-AA floating point chip (which requires the MMU chip), the FPF11 hardware floating point board, and the KEF11-BB CIS hybrid (containing six chips!). There apparently was an earlier KEF11-BA CIS for the 11/23 etc., which was packaged differently. FIS was only available as an option on the 11/03 family (KEV11) and the 11/35 and 11/40 (KE11-F). CIS was an option on the 11/23 family (KEF-11Bx), 11/44 (KE44), and 11/74 (KE74). The KE74 should work on some late-model 11/70 systems based on the KB11-CM CPU (vs. the standards KB11-B and KB11-C), but it is unknown whether any KE74s were actually sold. The 11/03 family support the KEV11 option, which adds EIS and FIS. The 11/03 can support the KUV11 writable control store, which can be used for EIS/FIS or user-written microcode. There is no CIS option for the 11/03; there's not enough microcode address space available to implement it. From avickers at solutionengineers.com Thu Jan 9 15:18:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: Mator Shark pics In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030109161803.019a1eb0@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030109211443.01971158@slave> OK, "pic" would be a better description.... There's a picture of the whole thing here: http://helmies.org.uk/images/MatorShark.jpg Also, a bad picture showing the end of the directory output: http://helmies.org.uk/images/41124_blocks.jpg 41124 blocks free, aka somewhere around 10mb. Luckily, ICPUG *has* a copy of the discdiag routines (the correct one too, as far as I can tell); all I have to do now is somehow get it from PC to PET (obviously, finding somewhere to store it on the PET is no longer a problem ). Tomorrow, I will take the cover off, and do a "proper" series of pics of the circuit boards, disc, etc. I will also get a sound sample of it starting up (I got one with the camera, but it was too far away to be discernable from background noise). Incidentally, the disc itself takes a significantly large portion of the box... The disc & interface controller (a large board across the top) is based on an Intel 8080A BTW, instead of the more usual 6502. I shall also re-type the manual (where possible, some of the pages haven't photocopied very well), and can make that available to anyone who desires it. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From jwb at paravolve.net Thu Jan 9 15:23:00 2003 From: jwb at paravolve.net (James W. Brinkerhoff) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: VAXserver 3100 In-Reply-To: <1bd.1a9d74cd.2b4eeb7c@aol.com> References: <1bd.1a9d74cd.2b4eeb7c@aol.com> Message-ID: <20030109162421.497cb41e.jwb@paravolve.net> Actually, I found the MMJ cable and a 9pin RS-232 adapter (I had been given it along with the machine and some other random DEC stuff... I remembered last night as I was drifting off to sleep and found it buried in my cable collection... Got the thing to boot too! It's a KA41-B and everything looks to be in working condition... I had to remove one of the boards (controller for the CDROM?) and reconnect 2 of the drives to the other controller to get it to see the remaining 2 drives and thus boot off DKB0 ... It boots into OpenVMS 7.0 but alas I have no knowledge of the SYSTEM password. Does OpenVMS boot single user without a password? (I doubt it, from what I gather VMS is pretty tight security wise) I'd rather not reinstall VMS right away since I'd like to see if I can figure out where the box originally came from, and what it was being used for... Kinda curious bout that. -jwb On Thu, 9 Jan 2003 10:13:00 EST Qstieee@aol.com wrote: > To find DEC MMJ cables, go to > http://catalog.blackbox.com/BlackBox/templates/blackbox/search.asp > and look for keywords DEC MMJ. > You will probably need at male-male MMJ and a female MMJ to DB9/DB25. > AS with any serial connection, verify pins (on a DB-25) 2-7 and 3-7 (i.e., > make sure terminal/PC is transmitting on one line, DEC VAX is transmitting on > the other). I usually do this with a VOM; transmit will be a strong (5-15 > VDC) signal; receive may be around 0. > Usually you will get a >>> prompt from VAX firmware. It will accept a help > command and you can do "show devices", then try "boot dua0:" or some other > disk device that's listed (they are 99% devices beginning with "d"). > Of course you may get a very first product/CPU ID, then some testing > messages. You are hoping that it progresses through the self-tests and gets > you to the >>> firmware prompt. Often >>> will take a "help" command too. > Often you need to send "delete" and not "backspace." Try 9600/8/N/1 settings. > Also probe the Compaq, Montagar, and Process sites. With the VMS hobbyist > program you can get going pretty well these days. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Thu Jan 9 15:38:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: VAXserver 3100 In-Reply-To: <20030109162421.497cb41e.jwb@paravolve.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, James W. Brinkerhoff wrote: > > Got the thing to boot too! It's a KA41-B and everything looks to be > in working condition... I had to remove one of the boards (controller > for the CDROM?) and reconnect 2 of the drives to the other controller > to get it to see the remaining 2 drives and thus boot off DKB0 ... > It boots into OpenVMS 7.0 but alas I have no knowledge of the SYSTEM > password. > > Does OpenVMS boot single user without a password? (I doubt it, from > what I gather VMS is pretty tight security wise) See the excellent OpenVMS FAQ: http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/faq/vmsfaq_004.html#mgmt5 -brian. From allain at panix.com Thu Jan 9 15:54:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? References: Message-ID: <008e01c2b829$e4683640$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > I was wondering if anyone knew if there was a > resource, like Kelley Blue Book sort of, for vintage > computer pricing? There's Mike Nadeau and Sellam Ismael's "real" book on the subject, wherever it is. - - - As with all collectors things, pricing is: 1/ too high if you don't shop around 2/ nearly zero if you have gobs of time to look everywhere, and time is costly. - - - Spend 2 hours a week on eBay category 1247 http://listings.ebay.com/aw/listings/list/category1247 or the search engine to know their prices for whatever it is that you want. John A. From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Thu Jan 9 15:55:11 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: Chip Upgrades for 11/23 (was Re: 11/03 system on eBay sold) References: Message-ID: <3E1DF0A4.3397B5DC@Vishay.com> Will, scanning one would be very nice. Any chance to swap against something I might have to offer? - This would even offload the work of scanning: I would be happy to provide pictures, once I get hold of such a chip! ;-) Please contact me privately if there are options to discuss. Regards, Andreas Will Jennings schrieb: > > I guess I could scan the CIS chip.. I know I have at least 3 or 4 of them. > > Will J > > _________________________________________________________________ > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Jan 9 16:00:00 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: Dec VR320 monitor Message-ID: <3E1D9CFC.29882.29BEEAB6@localhost> I have a DEC VR320 monitor which I have never been able to get to work on a PC and don't want to spring for an expensive video card that would sync to it. I also have a Dec Rainbow 100+ with a color card that I use with a VR241-A monitor, and a DEC Pro 150. It occurred to me that the RB or the Pro 150 (in mono) might work with the VR320. I don't want to chance blowing something or causing the magic smoke to escape tho. Does anyone have any info on this ? Lawrence lgwalker@ mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Jan 9 16:00:17 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: ScanSet Temat HE 415-B ???? In-Reply-To: <00c701c2b79b$748ff300$275986d1@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3E1D9CFC.18948.29BEEA6B@localhost> Welcome back Cord. It has indeed been a while. Lawrence On 8 Jan 2003, , Cord G. Coslor - Archive Soft wrote: > Hello ~ > > I am new to this list and have found an item that I need > some help with. Well.... I kind of am new.... I've been away > from the list (and collecting classics) for several years > (4?) doing other endeavors, but am ready to dust off the old > classics and get back into the hobby. I basically specialize > in the old 8-bits, game consoles, etc., and currently have > about 300 different machines. > > Anyway, at a "flea market" I came across a yellowish-tan > cased integrated keyboard/monitor unit, with the appearance > of being late 70s vintage. The monitor was probably 7 inches > wide, and the keyboard was pretty laid out pretty tightly. A > compact unit overall. No disk drives, etc.... > > Upon further review, I found it is called a Scanset -- model > HE 415-B -- and apparently was made by TEMAT. > > I have been unable to find any additional information on > this computer. Can any of you help? > > Sincerely, > > CORD G. COSLOR > Archive Software > www.ArchiveSoftware.net > (under development) > > ----- > | Celebrity Direct Entertainment > | 49 Halsey Dr. - Hutchinson, KS - 67502 > | (620) 665-8366 > | www.CelebrityDirect.net * CDE@CelebrityDirect.net > lgwalker@ mts.net From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 9 16:06:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: Woohoo! What a find! In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030109161803.019a1eb0@slave> Message-ID: <20030109220933.87864.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Adrian Vickers wrote: > Today, I picked up (for just the cost of petrol getting there :) a Mator > Shark hard-drive for CBM PETs. All 22meg of it! And it WORKS! Slick! Never heard of one. I've had a C= D9090 and D9060 for years, but that's 7.5MB or 5.0MB (TM603S or TM602S) and DOS 3.0. Wonder what you can turn up in the way of docs/etc. One thing that might be nice, if you are up to the effort, would be to dump the ROMs to funet. There's a nice collection of schematics and firmware that's very handy for repair and general understanding of C= hardware. > Sounds like a jet engine when you turn it on, and it's about the size of > Texas, but waaay cool :) 5.25" FH drive mech? At 22MB, I'd almost expect an ST225 in there, but that one probably isn't loud enough (unless the bearings are about to go ;-) > Also got a flakey 3032 - I think there's a ROM problem, as it displays a > line from the monitor (debug monitor, that is) with a wildly-flashing > cursor, and no k/b input accepted. Of course, the latter may be due to > just a dodgy keyboard, so this one looks like a bit of a project job. The keyboard itself is a passive matrix scanned in software 60 (or 50) times a second. Most of a PIA is devoted to the keyboard. Even a stuck bit won't produce the effect you describe. Might be a bad 40-pin chip (6520 or 6522) or just dirty sockets. I have a 32K 2001-N (American version of the 3032) in a similar state. Given what I've swapped out, I'm confident that it's not bad silicon. I'm up for removing all the 40 pin sockets next (since I found some 40-pin machined pin sockets). This is my first-ever PET (and second computer), so I don't mind a little work to keep it functional. Besides, I have plenty of 8032s, but lots of software that won't run under BASIC 4.0. If the 40 pin sockets don't take care of the problem, I'll probably replace the ROM sockets next. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 9 16:27:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: Mator Shark pics In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030109211443.01971158@slave> Message-ID: <20030109223038.77751.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Adrian Vickers wrote: > There's a picture of the whole thing here: > > http://helmies.org.uk/images/MatorShark.jpg Yep! That's huge. About twice the size of a D9090. > Luckily, ICPUG *has* a copy of the discdiag routines... Cool. Do they have a web/ftp site, or do you have to get physical disks from them? > ...all I have to do now is somehow get it from PC to > PET (obviously, finding somewhere to store it on the PET is no longer a > problem ). I have a device I got from Marko Makela - the C2N232 http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/transfer/C2N232/C2N232.html It's a microcontroller that plugs into any 8-bit C= cassette connector (PET, C-64, VIC-20, etc) and speaks RS-232 out the other end. I have tested mine with a VIC-20 and a W2K laptop. I still owe Marko a test with my 2001-N once I get it working reliably. You can use the ordinary ROM tape routines for the C= side, or you can download a faster utility that knows how the C2N232 works. I think they are around 20-25 Euros. Another option would require a 1541 drive and an X(E)1541 cable, and a C= 2040/3040/4040 drive. You write the disk from the PC using the 1541 and the parallel cable, then read the disk in the PET with whatever native drive you have. If you lack the drives, then a C2N232 is probably the cheapest way to go. If you have the hardware, even if you have to make the cable, then _that_ is the cheapest way to go. > Tomorrow, I will take the cover off, and do a "proper" series of pics of > the circuit boards, disc, etc. Cool. > Incidentally, the disc itself takes a significantly large portion of the > box... The disc & interface controller (a large board across the top) is > based on an Intel 8080A BTW, instead of the more usual 6502. Interesting. The D9060/D9090 has one board that has a 6502 and (IIRC) 6504. The 6502 runs the Commodore DOS and speaks IEEE-488. The 6504 speaks SASI to the next board, which is SASI<->ST506. The drive is a 4 head or 6 head Tandon drive. Others have had good luck with installing a newer drive with the right number of heads, like an ST225 or ST241. Be neat to see how the Shark works. Was that a UK product? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From avickers at solutionengineers.com Thu Jan 9 17:27:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: Mator Shark pics In-Reply-To: <20030109223038.77751.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030109211443.01971158@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030109230113.019d7450@slave> At 22:30 09/01/2003, you wrote: >--- Adrian Vickers wrote: > > There's a picture of the whole thing here: > > > > http://helmies.org.uk/images/MatorShark.jpg > >Yep! That's huge. About twice the size of a D9090. Aye, probably about twice the weight as well. It's made out of standard Commodore-grade metal (i.e. bloody heavy stuff). > > Luckily, ICPUG *has* a copy of the discdiag routines... > >Cool. Do they have a web/ftp site, or do you have to get >physical disks from them? Well... I've downloaded the lynx'ed image, and I'm currently trying to get the damn thing to extract on VICE. If I can do that, and basically make myself a D64 image, then I'll be laughing. Unfortunately, there seems to be a problem with lynx ATM, it's bombing out after the first file in any Lynx archive :( If I can't get it to work at all, then I'll see if ICPUG can get me physical disks. [addendum] In the time it's taken me to write this message, I think I might have fixed the LYNX problem - something to do with filenames longer than 12 chars. Dunno what that's about. [/addendum] > > ...all I have to do now is somehow get it from PC to > > PET (obviously, finding somewhere to store it on the PET is no longer a > > problem ). > >I have a device I got from Marko Makela - the C2N232 > > http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/transfer/C2N232/C2N232.html > >It's a microcontroller that plugs into any 8-bit C= cassette connector >(PET, C-64, VIC-20, etc) and speaks RS-232 out the other end. I have >tested mine with a VIC-20 and a W2K laptop. I still owe Marko a test >with my 2001-N once I get it working reliably. You can use the >ordinary ROM tape routines for the C= side, or you can download a >faster utility that knows how the C2N232 works. Ooh, neat. >I think they are around 20-25 Euros. > >Another option would require a 1541 drive and an X(E)1541 cable, and >a C= 2040/3040/4040 drive. You write the disk from the PC using the >1541 and the parallel cable, then read the disk in the PET with whatever >native drive you have. If you lack the drives, then a C2N232 is probably >the cheapest way to go. If you have the hardware, even if you have to >make the cable, then _that_ is the cheapest way to go. My plan is to make the cable (maybe tomorrow), as I have a couple of 1541's. > > Incidentally, the disc itself takes a significantly large portion of the > > box... The disc & interface controller (a large board across the top) is > > based on an Intel 8080A BTW, instead of the more usual 6502. > >Interesting. The D9060/D9090 has one board that has a 6502 and (IIRC) >6504. The 6502 runs the Commodore DOS and speaks IEEE-488. The 6504 >speaks SASI to the next board, which is SASI<->ST506. The drive is >a 4 head or 6 head Tandon drive. Others have had good luck with >installing a newer drive with the right number of heads, like an ST225 >or ST241. I'm told that the disk inside is a Priam. I've not confirmed this by actually looking, but will do soon. I have no idea what language the Priam speaks, but I'm sure that if it does give up the ghost, it will be possible to replace with *something*, even if it's a PIC board which speaks to a modern IDE drive. >Be neat to see how the Shark works. Was that a UK product? It was - made by Mator Computers Ltd (or something like that anyway). -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 9 17:45:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 (PSU's Polarity and Amps needed) In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jan 8, 3 09:15:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 522 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030109/14db3a6b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 9 17:45:49 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: COS-300 and DMS-500 In-Reply-To: <21DCA3BC0EF6D3118AAC00D0B71CE07614F4EC@ntmain.simconv.com> from "Jack Peacock" at Jan 8, 3 05:32:04 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 801 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030109/a8fa0cc3/attachment.ksh From 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com Thu Jan 9 18:03:00 2003 From: 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com (No Junk Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 part 2 (bootdisk) Message-ID: <458-28261@sneakemail.com> Thanks for the help with the power supply for the Amstrad. I've picked up a nice unit that, while heavy, appears to be made for the computer it's so perfectly matched. Was that plug, that polarity, that voltage and that current a fairly common choice for a while? Anyway, I made a boot disk using Win98SE and the Amstrad really doesn't like it (can't blame it) -- crashes on boot. Can anyone supply an image of a boot disk known to work on the Amstrad? krishaven *aT* spamcop *dOt* net. TIA. BTW: It complains about setting the time and a dead battery before looking for a system disk. Does anyone know if its expecting me to buy 10 C cell batteries or if it's referring to an internal battery of some kind? Chris J. -------------------------------------- Protect yourself from spam, use http://sneakemail.com From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu Jan 9 18:40:01 2003 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 part 2 (bootdisk) In-Reply-To: <458-28261@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <8EDEE850-2434-11D7-9254-000502512D39@calico.litterbox.com> Remember that the Amstrad ppc640 is a PC XT clone with double density (not high density) floppy drives. It should boot any old version of DOS after about 3.3, so long as it's on the proper floppy. These things can be tricky to find these days though. If you can still download DR.DOS 7, I know that works, since I've used it on mine. Otherwise I'd be tempted to try FreeDOS. I'm in the same position, though, I don't have any way of making low density 3.5 inch boot disks for PCs anymore (unless I get busy and put my old PC back together). -Jim Strickland On Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 05:06 PM, No Junk Mail wrote: > Thanks for the help with the power supply for the Amstrad. I've > picked up a nice unit that, while heavy, appears to be made for the > computer it's so perfectly matched. Was that plug, that polarity, > that voltage and that current a fairly common choice for a while? > > Anyway, I made a boot disk using Win98SE and the Amstrad really > doesn't like it (can't blame it) -- crashes on boot. Can anyone > supply an image of a boot disk known to work on the Amstrad? > krishaven *aT* spamcop *dOt* net. TIA. > > BTW: It complains about setting the time and a dead battery before > looking for a system disk. Does anyone know if its expecting me to > buy 10 C cell batteries or if it's referring to an internal battery of > some kind? > > Chris J. > > -------------------------------------- > Protect yourself from spam, > use http://sneakemail.com > From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu Jan 9 18:42:00 2003 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 part 2 (bootdisk) In-Reply-To: <458-28261@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: It's expecting you to buy 10 C cell batteries, yes. And in time it will run them down flat even if you don't use the machine as the batteries are keeping the system clock alive. On Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 05:06 PM, No Junk Mail wrote: > Thanks for the help with the power supply for the Amstrad. I've > picked up a nice unit that, while heavy, appears to be made for the > computer it's so perfectly matched. Was that plug, that polarity, > that voltage and that current a fairly common choice for a while? > > Anyway, I made a boot disk using Win98SE and the Amstrad really > doesn't like it (can't blame it) -- crashes on boot. Can anyone > supply an image of a boot disk known to work on the Amstrad? > krishaven *aT* spamcop *dOt* net. TIA. > > BTW: It complains about setting the time and a dead battery before > looking for a system disk. Does anyone know if its expecting me to > buy 10 C cell batteries or if it's referring to an internal battery of > some kind? > > Chris J. > > -------------------------------------- > Protect yourself from spam, > use http://sneakemail.com > From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jan 9 18:54:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 part 2 (bootdisk) In-Reply-To: <458-28261@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: On 10 Jan 2003, No Junk Mail wrote: > Anyway, I made a boot disk using Win98SE and the Amstrad really > doesn't like it (can't blame it) -- crashes on boot. Can anyone > supply an image of a boot disk known to work on the Amstrad? > krishaven *aT* spamcop *dOt* net. TIA. You tried to boot Windows 98 on an Amstrad PPC640? ? ? From 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com Thu Jan 9 18:58:00 2003 From: 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com (No Junk Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 part 2 (bootdisk) Message-ID: <10295-68343@sneakemail.com> Thanks, and wow. One last thing, was there ever an Amstrad demo for/of the machine itself? That would be great for "show and tell" purposes. TIA, Chris J. > Jim Strickland jim-at-calico.litterbox.com |CC| wrote: > > It's expecting you to buy 10 C cell batteries, yes. And in time it > will run them down flat even if you don't use the machine as the > batteries are keeping the system clock alive. > From 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com Thu Jan 9 19:18:01 2003 From: 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com (No Junk Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 part 2 (bootdisk) Message-ID: <20565-09137@sneakemail.com> > Remember that the Amstrad ppc640 is a PC XT clone with double density > (not high density) floppy drives. Knew that. > It should boot any old version of > DOS after about 3.3, so long as it's on the proper floppy. I fear that a Win98SE boot floppy is expecting at least a little extended memory. I've just created a PC DOS boot disk using a Ghost tool. >These > things can be tricky to find these days though. Salvaged a bunch from another IT officer doing a clean out. > If you can still > download DR.DOS 7, I know that works, since I've used it on mine. How did you make a 720 boot disk? Did you find a 720k image or did you make 1.44s, boot a suffciently old PC and create a 720 using format /s? > Otherwise I'd be tempted to try FreeDOS. Seems to only be an ISO CD image! > I'm in the same position, > though, I don't have any way of making low density 3.5 inch boot > disks > for PCs anymore (unless I get busy and put my old PC back together). Surreal. I just tried to format a 720 in my new WinXP portable and the size wasn't even a option. And when I did it through the GUI under 2000 the anti-virus scanner had a fit. Finally had to format it using the CLI *and* I had to explicitly unmount it first to get the anti-virus software to let go. Thanks Jim, Chris J. From 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com Thu Jan 9 19:20:00 2003 From: 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com (No Junk Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 part 2 (bootdisk) Message-ID: <22205-09152@sneakemail.com> > You tried to boot Windows 98 on an Amstrad PPC640? ? ? Err, no. I tried to create a basic DOS-esq boot disk using Win98. Remember, DOS was still buried under 98. CJ. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 9 20:09:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model I Computers In-Reply-To: <20030107181517.42840.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030107180000.20596.42023.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030109211248.4907f7f8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:15 AM 1/7/03 -0800, Al Hartman wrote: >The presence or lack of a numeric keypad on a Model I >is not a good indicator of whether it's Level I basic >or not. That's not exactly true. All original Model I level II machines have the numeric keybard. TRS switched to the Level II ROM and added the numeric keypad at the same time so all machines with the numeric keypad should have level II ROMs. The machine in question had the numeric keypad therefore it came with Level II ROMs. Therefore it is NOT a first model of the Model I both in terms of the ROMs and the keyboard. A more correct statement would be "The lack of a numeric keypad on a Model I is not a good indicator of whether it's Level I basic or not." The presence of the numeric keypad is an excellant indicator that it is a Level II machine. Joe > >I have a Model I (My original from 1979) which came >without a keypad, and was a Level I computer, but >which I quickly upgraded to a Level II computer. > >The only real way to tell is to power the unit up. > >Regards, > > >P.S.: I'm looking for a working LNW-80 Computer. A >model II would be preferred, but a Model I would be >OK. If anyone has one they'd like to sell, please let >me know.. > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 9 20:09:58 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20030108074800.4f67a5ea@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030109204743.492f0018@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:31 AM 1/8/03 -0800, Ron wrote: >> The most difficult part was finding an AT compatible keyboard that >> fits the case. Compaq did make some (used in a 286 version of the >> Portable) but they're not easy to find. >> >Wouldn't a keyboard adapter work? Not if you want a keybaord that will fold up and latch to the case just like the original. FWIW the guy that did the conversion used a 486 or Pentium MB (don't remember which) that had the AT layout and it used the old 5 pin DIN connector for the keyboard. A standard Compaq Portable keyboard wouldn't work with it since they are XT compatible and not AT compatible. Joe From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jan 9 20:28:01 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: OT Problems loading Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, Clinton Baker wrote: > If you use the dd command, you'll probably need to run sync afterwards to > ensure that everything gets updated correctly. If the partition table is > really corrupt, a simpler method may just be to run fdisk /mbr (I'm > assuming you have a DOS boot disk or DOS/Windows is on the drive > currently). In either case, see if fdisk (DOS or Linux) can see the > current partition info and remove it on it's own. Huh??? dd is NOT a file write. There's nothing to flush to disk, so the sync command will be useless. And, worse, DOS "fdisk /mbr" doesn't touch the partition table at all. It reinstates a default DOS master boot record. Whatever partitions are defined, correct, corrupt, or whatever, will still be there. "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda bs=512 count=2" assuming it's the first {Primary Master} IDE drive, WILL fix a corrupt partition table. BTDT more than once. Doc From JOHNSOY at aol.com Thu Jan 9 21:10:01 2003 From: JOHNSOY at aol.com (JOHNSOY@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" Message-ID: <86.246b9723.2b4f942b@aol.com> I have the original silver logo Compaq portable. I am willimg to sale if the price is right. I have all the manuals, discs, and all original Compaq version books. Mint condition. Great bargain. Will sale for $300.00. That sounds high but this is one of the first and it is like new. It is beautiful and works. Manufactured in 1982, shipped in 1983. Thanks for your interest, YVONNE Y -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030109/83946215/attachment.html From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Thu Jan 9 21:20:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? References: <200301091950.OAA07053@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <3E1E3D07.25B66E62@mail.verizon.net> Right and the book is now out of stock! It seems that the cover color is surprising similar to Dr. Tom Haddock's book on computer collecting. I'd like to get a copy of Nadeau's book nonetheless. Eric Bryan Pope wrote: > What about Michael Nadeau's book? For more info about it go to: > http://www.vintage.org/special/collectible.php > > Cheers, > > Bryan > > And thusly Mike spake: > > > > If there was, it would be woefully out of date. The internet and sites > > like ebay have created a whole new audience. > > > > Supply and demand works but with an expanded listing and selling audience, > > the imperical data on prices is yet to be analyzed. > > > > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > > > I am new to the list and really love it already. I was wondering if > > > anyone knew if there was a resource, like Kelley Blue Book sort of, for > > > vintage computer pricing? I have several to sell and several I would > > > like to get, but I have no idea what to ask or expect to pay for them > > > (or even if they are collectible for that matter LOL). Any help would be > > > appreciated. I am not looking for a book per se, but some place (a > > > website maybe?) to get some ball park figures. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Greg Manuel From rcini at optonline.net Thu Jan 9 21:28:00 2003 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: S100 spares needed - repairs almost done Message-ID: Hello, all: Scott has made much progress in repairing my N* machine. Well, calling it a N* is a stretch since the only thing N* about it is the motherboard, case and disk controller. Anyway, I'm having diskette issues. I have two theoretically good single-density controllers and disk drives, and Don Maslin made replacement boot disks for me. These disks don't boot, although the controller attempts to access them. It may be that the replacement SD disks were made from a DD controller, but I don't know for sure. So, I have two choices -- obtain SD boot diskettes made with an SD controller or get a N* DD controller (MDS-AD|AD2|AD3). Any other thoughts or recommendations appreciated. Thanks. Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1988 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030109/6d044d07/winmail.bin From loedman1 at juno.com Thu Jan 9 21:31:00 2003 From: loedman1 at juno.com (loedman1@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: HP 7970 E spool disk drive (fwd) From: John Lawson Message-ID: <20030109.193129.-119247.0.loedman1@juno.com> Swami John, ;-) A friends family resides outside of Kashmir (hope I spelled that correctly). Would their intervention streamline this transistion ? They often ship to their son with few problems and are willing to assist, this assumes that the part is located close to their residence. Rich Stephenson >On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Rajat followed up and told me he bought this at auction and had no use for > it so he wanted to either sell it or donate it. > > Anyone up for shipping costs on a 100lbs piece of computer gear from > India? If you're up for paying duties on around 70% of *new acquisition cost*, backed up by *the original (NOT a copy) manufacturers invoice* -OR- the right amount of discrete 'speed money' to the right person (you hope), which 'speed money' will be a substantial fraction of the original duties, and *then* you pay the re-crating (because the customs guys tear this stuff apart and then throw everything back in what's left of your box and some guy from the villages comes and slops 3 feet of cheap tape on it... and then you pay the actual shipping... *then* you deal with customs here in the US... AND you pretty much need to be there to take care of the little 'derailments' as they continually arise. Doing this long distance with no representative there, would be impossible. From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Thu Jan 9 21:37:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? References: <008e01c2b829$e4683640$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3E1E411F.2FB4E913@mail.verizon.net> John Allain wrote: > > I was wondering if anyone knew if there was a > > resource, like Kelley Blue Book sort of, for vintage > > computer pricing? > > There's Mike Nadeau and Sellam Ismael's "real" > book on the subject, wherever it is. > - - - > As with all collectors things, pricing is: > 1/ too high if you don't shop around > 2/ nearly zero if you have gobs of time to > look everywhere, and time is costly. Do not forget that price also depends on if you are buying or selling. What good would a decent selling price be if no one was willing to buy it at a decent price? It goes back to resale vs. wholesale. The best example of this I saw in the coin collecting market. Dealers were selling all types of silver dollar varieties based upon different minting dies. But when you tried to get a decent price when selling those same varieties to them they ignored the distinctions and wanted to pay standard wholesale prices for those same "rare" varieties. Granted deals can be had and computer collecting is fun. But anyone trying to make a buck as a middleman buying and selling old computers is going to end up with loads of hardware that will just sit. Eric > > - - - > Spend 2 hours a week on eBay category 1247 > http://listings.ebay.com/aw/listings/list/category1247 > or the search engine to know their prices for whatever > it is that you want. > > John A. From marvin at rain.org Thu Jan 9 21:52:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: Northstar Computer, was Re: S100 spares needed - repairs almost done References: Message-ID: <3E1E4422.C2C97CA0@rain.org> "Richard A. Cini" wrote: > > Anyway, I'm having diskette issues. I have two theoretically good > single-density controllers and disk drives, and Don Maslin made replacement > boot disks for me. These disks don't boot, although the controller attempts > to access them. It may be that the replacement SD disks were made from a DD > controller, but I don't know for sure. > > So, I have two choices -- obtain SD boot diskettes made with an SD > controller or get a N* DD controller (MDS-AD|AD2|AD3). Any other thoughts or > recommendations appreciated. Thanks. I have a similar problem with three of my N* computers, and finally decided to find out what was going on. The DC voltages were okay and there only appeared to be about .2 VAC ripple on the line; I think that is okay. By doing board swaps, I found out the CPU and MDS cards were good and the disk light would come on w/o any memory installed. Interesting! One of the memory cards appears to be bad. Doing board swaps to a good machine and everything works. I am down to one of two things, either the motherboard has some problems, or the memory card is bad. I was using 64K RAM boards, and since I didn't pull out the docs to double check, it is possible the "bad" ram card had the E800 segment turned on (that is the location of the N* boot routines.) Yes, I did swap disk drives also in the process. Did I mention that I heard a couple of "pops" on the CPU card when apparently the tantalum caps shorted and exploded :). One of the CPU cards had a trace burn off when the cap went. From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Thu Jan 9 22:05:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: Osborne OCC1 References: Message-ID: <3E1E47AC.EB7731CD@mail.verizon.net> I made so more progress with my Osborne I project. Initially, I had taken a few steps forward by integrating the working parts of two non-working systems into a single working system. Well it seems that when I tried to put it all back together I managed to put a case screw right through the %@$# disk drive ribbon cable. Funny thing is is that the B drive worked but the A drive wouldn't boot but would provide listings from 'dir' command. I immediately thought alignment as the damn thing did clunk once upon reassembly. Well I discovered the cable problem and put the other one in. Viola, fixed! Anyway, I do plan to document this process. I did discover that you can convert a working B drive into an A drive if the A electronics is working. IOW, the mechanical parts of a Siemans 100 drive are the same, it is the electronics board that makes an A drive an A and a B drive a B. What I have now drive-wise is a good set of A and B drives plus a spare A drive and good B electronics board with a faulty drive mechanics portion. I could make the spare a B drive if need be (B!). Must be late. :) A last ditch effort will be to try and fix the faulty drive's mechanical portion. Either way, I'm done tommorrow and will reassemeble the working system and put the parts system back together as well. But I must first leave a trail to follow if ever me or anyone else picks up on these two systems in the future. Eric "Feldman, Robert" wrote: > Speaking of OCC1 parts, I need to clean out the basement some, and have the > following available for anyone who will pay the postage (from Chicago): > > 1 OCC1 motherboard (from a tan case) with double density and 52/80/104 > column video upgrades > 1 OCC1 power supply > 1 OCC1 keyboard (bare, not in case) > > email me at robert(underscore)feldman(at)jdedwards(dot)com. > > Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Chomko [mailto:vze2wsvr@verizon.net] > Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 10:07 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Osborne OCC1 > > I'm back on them and have had great progress. One system had > a bad PS but both drives work fine. The other had bad drives > (one of them I did fix, though -a B: drive) but al else is fine. > I have since merged all the good parts. > > Tommorrow I plan to put a 80 column monitor on it and run > the full diagnostics. > > Eric > From bridgers-wall at worldnet.att.net Thu Jan 9 22:29:01 2003 From: bridgers-wall at worldnet.att.net (Janet Bridgers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: working oldie Message-ID: <013101c2b81b$0e4313e0$0600a8c0@ComputersEtc> A friend has an old Monroe computer, # 0C8820 and a printer, # 8640. Does anyone know if it is worth anything to a collector? Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030109/c9ca47be/attachment.html From philip at awale.qc.ca Thu Jan 9 22:30:58 2003 From: philip at awale.qc.ca (philip@awale.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: Original IBM portable/lug'ble PC, suit case size - IBM's res In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 08-Jan-2003 Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Although the composite video is nice, I prefer the EGA in the Compaq > (requires replacing the CGA board with COMPAQ's EGA), and the Compaq > case doesn't have drives blocking access to most of the expansion slots. Such a thing exists? Output goes to the built-in CRT? If so, I must hunt one down. I have 2 compaq "portables" and an expantion chasis. Used them for a longish while as "portable" serial consoles. The fact they work at >1440 baud is great when working with headless linux servers. -Philip From trestivo at concentric.net Thu Jan 9 22:32:38 2003 From: trestivo at concentric.net (Thom Restivo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: HP9835A on ebay Message-ID: FYI, just posted an HP9835A on ebay if anyones interested... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2087812573 thom From ram_suganthi at hotmail.com Thu Jan 9 22:34:16 2003 From: ram_suganthi at hotmail.com (Ram & Suganthi M.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: Serial Keyboard found on EBay... Message-ID: Hi, I found the perfect serial keyboard for my project. The iBiz KeySync and there are drivers for Linux! It lists for $70, but I got mine on ebay for $18 shipped. Here is the same seller selling some more (she raised the price though, but still within $20): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15004&item=1950967416 Cheers, Ram _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From TDooley900 at aol.com Thu Jan 9 22:35:56 2003 From: TDooley900 at aol.com (TDooley900@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: Honeywell Hdos Information Message-ID: <144.763d260.2b4f99dc@aol.com> I'm looking for information on Honeywell dos (Hdos) I have an old Honeywell test station that has this operating system on it and I'm trying to figure out how to copy a disk in the system. I've tried the standard Hdos commands but they aren't anything like the ones used in Honeywell dos. Does anyone know how I can backup these 8" floppy disk? Thanks in advance... Tim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030109/e738c776/attachment.html From donm at cts.com Fri Jan 10 00:03:01 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:13 2005 Subject: S100 spares needed - repairs almost done In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, Richard A. Cini wrote: > Hello, all: > > Scott has made much progress in repairing my N* machine. Well, > calling it a N* is a stretch since the only thing N* about it is the > motherboard, case and disk controller. > > Anyway, I'm having diskette issues. I have two theoretically good > single-density controllers and disk drives, and Don Maslin made replacement > boot disks for me. These disks don't boot, although the controller attempts > to access them. It may be that the replacement SD disks were made from a DD > controller, but I don't know for sure. That is correct, Rich. They were created on the DD controller and booted it nicely. I am now exploring getting media that was made on a SD controller and will try to duplicate it on a SD controller that I found that I have. - don > So, I have two choices -- obtain SD boot diskettes made with an SD > controller or get a N* DD controller (MDS-AD|AD2|AD3). Any other thoughts or > recommendations appreciated. Thanks. > > Rich Cini > Collector of classic computers > Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project > Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ > /************************************************************/ > > > From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Fri Jan 10 00:42:00 2003 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:14 2005 Subject: Mator Shark pics In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030109211443.01971158@slave> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030109161803.019a1eb0@slave> <5.1.0.14.2.20030109211443.01971158@slave> Message-ID: <63906.62.148.198.97.1042181121.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Adrian Vickers said: > OK, "pic" would be a better description.... > > > There's a picture of the whole thing here: > > http://helmies.org.uk/images/MatorShark.jpg > Whoa! That's one lovely piece of machinery! Is the 710 yours ? I've always thought that Commore PET/CBM series had the weirdest unknown peripherals ever. When the Finnish importer (only one at the time) went bankrupt in 1991 I had a chance to go to the clearance auction. I got a few similar machines (8296 and 200) and other stuff. The dealer briefly let me see a orange/black box, supposedly made in Hungary (or Bulgaria), 5 MB hardrive for CBM-machines. I didn't inquire further and I'm still a bit ticked off about it. Anyone ever heard of Hydra ? -- jht From jim at calico.litterbox.com Fri Jan 10 01:08:01 2003 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:14 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 part 2 (bootdisk) In-Reply-To: <20565-09137@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: > How did you make a 720 boot disk? Did you find a 720k image or did > you make 1.44s, boot a suffciently old PC and create a 720 using > format /s? > >> Otherwise I'd be tempted to try FreeDOS. > > Seems to only be an ISO CD image! > >> I'm in the same position, >> though, I don't have any way of making low density 3.5 inch boot >> disks >> for PCs anymore (unless I get busy and put my old PC back together). > > Surreal. I just tried to format a 720 in my new WinXP portable and > the size wasn't even a option. And when I did it through the GUI > under 2000 the anti-virus scanner had a fit. Finally had to format it > using the CLI *and* I had to explicitly unmount it first to get the > anti-virus software to let go. > Weird. You should be able to format a 720 in any 1.44 meg floppy drive, if memory serves they were designed to be backward compatible like that. My floppy drive on my PC dates back to my 286 days, so it's old enough that I haven't had any problems. Don't know anything about XP though, and don't care either. I'm a happy OS/X user. :) As for what software to run on the thing... anything that does fast screen updates is probably a bad idea, the supertwist screen is pretty friggin slow. Also, anything that depends on color to look cool is obviously a bad idea. I've run Norton Textra Writer on mine successfully. Haven't mucked about much with more interesting things like ip packet drivers and parallel port ethernet adapters, mostly because I don't own any such adapters. I have this machine now mostly because I lusted after them badly when they started to show up in the computer catalogs of the day as they went on clearance for about $200. From 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com Fri Jan 10 01:26:01 2003 From: 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com (No Junk Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:14 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 part 2 (bootdisk) Message-ID: <15589-48988@sneakemail.com> > > Surreal. I just tried to format a 720 in my new WinXP portable and > > the size wasn't even a option. > > Weird. You should be able to format a 720 in any 1.44 meg floppy > drive, if memory serves they were designed to be backward compatible > like that. I know. > As for what software to run on the thing... I've remembered that I've got an old Night Owl CD around somewhere (I bought about 3 but I know I've lost at least one) that should have *something* interesting. > like ip packet drivers and parallel port ethernet adapters, mostly > because I don't own any such adapters. There's an interesting text mode Internet suite that was particularly useful to HP200XL users that I might be able to have some fun with. Can't remember if it needs a shell account though. > I have this machine now > mostly > because I lusted after them badly when they started to show up in the > computer catalogs of the day as they went on clearance for about > $200. I remember thinking that these were the coolest portables ever. Mind you, I had been using a Kaypro 4 for a number of years beforehand, so *anything* looked sexier. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Jan 10 01:57:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:14 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 part 2 (bootdisk) References: <8EDEE850-2434-11D7-9254-000502512D39@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <002301c2b87e$4536bb00$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Jim Strickland wrote: > Remember that the Amstrad ppc640 is a PC XT clone with double density > (not high density) floppy drives. It should boot any old version of > DOS after about 3.3, so long as it's on the proper floppy. These > things can be tricky to find these days though. If you can still > download DR.DOS 7, I know that works, since I've used it on mine. > Otherwise I'd be tempted to try FreeDOS. I'm in the same position, > though, I don't have any way of making low density 3.5 inch boot disks > for PCs anymore (unless I get busy and put my old PC back together). I've used a PPC640 before - the drive will read 3.5" HD disks if you cover the density select hole on the disk, reformat it to 720k and then SYS C: A: it. MSDOS 5 works great on PPCs. DR-DOS 7 works on anything :-) Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Jan 10 02:17:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:14 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 part 2 (bootdisk) In-Reply-To: <002301c2b87e$4536bb00$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <002601c2b881$13411700$513bcd18@D73KSM11> Jim Strickland wrote: > Remember that the Amstrad ppc640 is a PC XT clone with double density > (not high density) floppy drives. It should boot any old version of > DOS after about 3.3, so long as it's on the proper floppy. These > things can be tricky to find these days though. If you can still > download DR.DOS 7, I know that works, since I've used it on mine. > Otherwise I'd be tempted to try FreeDOS. I'm in the same position, > though, I don't have any way of making low density 3.5 inch boot disks > for PCs anymore (unless I get busy and put my old PC back together). I've used a PPC640 before - the drive will read 3.5" HD disks if you cover the density select hole on the disk, reformat it to 720k and then SYS C: A: it. MSDOS 5 works great on PPCs. DR-DOS 7 works on anything :-) I believe this is the IBM ftp site: ftp://204.146.167.81/pub/pccbbs/refdisks/ From deano at rattie.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 10 02:37:00 2003 From: deano at rattie.demon.co.uk (Deano Calver) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:14 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 part 2 (bootdisk) References: <002601c2b881$13411700$513bcd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <0bc101c2b883$ef954940$2000a8c0@hal> You could goto the original source, Cliff Lawson (one of the original Amstrad team) mantains an archive of most Amstrad software. The ppc disks are http://web.ukonline.co.uk/cliff.lawson/files/ppcdisks.zip Bye, Deano Dean Calver, Eclipse Studio Ltd. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne M. Smith" To: Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 8:20 AM Subject: RE: Amstrad PPC640 part 2 (bootdisk) > Jim Strickland wrote: > > Remember that the Amstrad ppc640 is a PC XT clone with double density > > (not high density) floppy drives. It should boot any old version of > > DOS after about 3.3, so long as it's on the proper floppy. These > > things can be tricky to find these days though. If you can still > > download DR.DOS 7, I know that works, since I've used it on mine. > > Otherwise I'd be tempted to try FreeDOS. I'm in the same position, > > though, I don't have any way of making low density 3.5 inch boot disks > > for PCs anymore (unless I get busy and put my old PC back together). > I've used a PPC640 before - the drive will read 3.5" HD disks if you > cover > the density select hole on the disk, reformat it to 720k and then SYS C: > A: > it. MSDOS 5 works great on PPCs. DR-DOS 7 works on anything :-) > > > I believe this is the IBM ftp site: > > ftp://204.146.167.81/pub/pccbbs/refdisks/ > > From there you can get: > > 3_3boot.exe 126208 08-24-95 DOS 3.3 Boot disk with maint. Files > > or > > 5-25boot.exe 151819 08-24-95 DOS 3.3 BOOT DISK W/ MAINT. FILES > > -W > > From avickers at solutionengineers.com Fri Jan 10 04:37:01 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:14 2005 Subject: Mator Shark pics In-Reply-To: <63906.62.148.198.97.1042181121.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030109211443.01971158@slave> <5.1.0.14.2.20030109161803.019a1eb0@slave> <5.1.0.14.2.20030109211443.01971158@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030110102658.018f7eb0@slave> At 06:45 10/01/2003, you wrote: >Adrian Vickers said: > > > OK, "pic" would be a better description.... > > > > > > There's a picture of the whole thing here: > > > > http://helmies.org.uk/images/MatorShark.jpg > > > >Whoa! That's one lovely piece of machinery! It's magnificent, isn't it? It's a hard-disk, and it's damn pround of itself (hence the size & noise, I think). > Is the 710 yours ? Yep. I was going to test it with an 8032, but I had the 710's keyboard out for a repair (note the different coloured "V" key), so I figured I may as well try it on that & check out the k/b at the same time. Both, I'm happy to report, seem to work perfectly :) >I've always thought that Commore PET/CBM series had the weirdest >unknown peripherals ever. I suppose because it was one of the first machines to both be widely available, and which had a reasonably standard IEEE port (I'm not sure what the Apple had in the way of interfaces). I suspect that if Commodore had ever got around to a "proper" RS232 interface, the number of bizzare peripherals would have shot up again. >When the Finnish importer (only one at the time) went bankrupt in 1991 >I had a chance to go to the clearance auction. I got a few similar >machines (8296 and 200) and other stuff. The dealer briefly let >me see a orange/black box, supposedly made in Hungary (or Bulgaria), >5 MB hardrive for CBM-machines. I didn't inquire further and I'm >still a bit ticked off about it. That would have been interesting, but I suppose back in '91, the PET's weren't sufficiently old to be interesting, they were just superceded. >Anyone ever heard of Hydra ? The name rings faint bells, but darned if I can remember why. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From menadeau at attbi.com Fri Jan 10 06:01:00 2003 From: menadeau at attbi.com (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:14 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? References: <200301091950.OAA07053@wordstock.com> <3E1E3D07.25B66E62@mail.verizon.net> Message-ID: <001b01c2b8a0$070f0c20$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> Did the publisher tell you the book was out of stock, Eric? I know that's what Amazon says (my publisher is not all that fond of Amazon and only begrudgingly does business with them). I have copies that I sell directly--$29.95 by M.O. or check or PayPal. Sellam also sells the book through his website (www.vintage.org). The Haddock book cover is yellow, and my book is orange--wouldn't have been my first choice, but it's grown on me. --Mike Michael Nadeau Editor/Publisher Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource www.classictechpub.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Chomko" To: Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:24 PM Subject: Re: Help with pricing on vintage computers? > Right and the book is now out of stock! > > It seems that the cover color is surprising similar to Dr. Tom Haddock's book > on computer collecting. > > I'd like to get a copy of Nadeau's book nonetheless. > > Eric > > Bryan Pope wrote: > > > What about Michael Nadeau's book? For more info about it go to: > > http://www.vintage.org/special/collectible.php > > > > Cheers, > > > > Bryan > > > > And thusly Mike spake: > > > > > > If there was, it would be woefully out of date. The internet and sites > > > like ebay have created a whole new audience. > > > > > > Supply and demand works but with an expanded listing and selling audience, > > > the imperical data on prices is yet to be analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > > > > > I am new to the list and really love it already. I was wondering if > > > > anyone knew if there was a resource, like Kelley Blue Book sort of, for > > > > vintage computer pricing? I have several to sell and several I would > > > > like to get, but I have no idea what to ask or expect to pay for them > > > > (or even if they are collectible for that matter LOL). Any help would be > > > > appreciated. I am not looking for a book per se, but some place (a > > > > website maybe?) to get some ball park figures. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Greg Manuel > > From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Jan 10 06:30:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:14 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3E1ECBBB.20392.487C72FD@localhost> > I am new to the list and really love it already. I was wondering if anyone > knew if there was a resource, like Kelley Blue Book sort of, for vintage > computer pricing? I have several to sell and several I would like to get, > but I have no idea what to ask or expect to pay for them (or even if they > are collectible for that matter LOL). Any help would be appreciated. I am > not looking for a book per se, but some place (a website maybe?) to get some > ball park figures. I strongly recomend Michael Nadeaus book. http://www.classictechpub.com/collectmicros.htm (Ups. I just see he put parts of the mail I sent ...) Anyway. The book is by far the best I've seen. There are always some points to argue, but I couldn't find some real wrongs, and I would have a hard time to come up with something better (as much as to recognize this hurts my ego). The named prices are as always disputable, and a bit on the high side in my opinion, but takeing Lucky eBay sales into account valid. As always, a price is what a seller and buyer agrees on, not what's listed in a book. Considering this they are helpfull as a rough gudeline to reduce overboarding expectations. Servus Hans -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Mzthompson at aol.com Fri Jan 10 09:13:00 2003 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:14 2005 Subject: Dec VR320 monitor Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Jan 2003; "Lawrence Walker" wrote: > I have a DEC VR320 monitor which I have never been > able to get to work on a PC and don't want to spring > for an expensive video card that would sync to it. > > I also have a Dec Rainbow 100+ with a color card that > I use with a VR241-A monitor, and a DEC Pro 150. > > It occurred to me that the RB or the Pro 150 (in mono) > might work with the VR320. I don't want to chance > blowing something or causing the magic smoke to > escape tho. > > Does anyone have any info on this ? Here is some info from the manual (EK-VR320-IN-001): Resolution Frequencies Model Horiz Vert Horiz - Khz Vert - Hz -------- ------ ---- ----------- --------- VR320-CA 1280 x 1024 70.66 66.47 * VR320-DA 1280 x 1024 77.13 72.56 * * The VR320 manual states that the monitor can operate at either 66 or 72 Hz, and is preset to match the machine prior to shipping. The manual also says to contact DEC Customer Service (yeah, right) if a change is needed. If DEC set it to 66 Hz they stamped 'CA' after 'VR320-' on the ID tag, if set to 72 Hz they stamped 'DA'. DEC set it to 66 or 72 Hz using a slide switch that is inside the monitor. The switch is clearly marked 66 & 72 Hz, just set it to the desired position. Here is the details in case you decide to pop for the video card. VR320-CA VRT320-DA Pixel Clock: 119.84 Mhz 130.81 Mhz Pixel Period: 8.34 ns 7.64 ns Horizonital Pixels Horiz Freq: 70.66 Khz 77.13 Khz Horizontal Period: 14.15 us 1696 12.97 us Active Video: 10.68 us 1280 9.79 us Blanking Interval: 3.47 us 416 3.18 us Front Porch: 267 ns 32 245 ns Sync Pulse: 1340 ns 160 1220 ns Back Porch: 1870 ns 224 171 ns Vertical Lines Vert Freq: 66.47 Hz 72.56 Hz Vertical Period: 15.035 ms 1063 13.7824 ms Active Video: 14.49 ms 1024 13.28 ms Blanking Interval: 552 us 39 506 us Front Porch: 42.46 us 3 38.89 us Sync Pulse: 42.46 us 3 38.89 us Back Porch: 467 us 33 427.9 us I don't know the outputs of the RB or the 150, so can't say it will work or not. By the way, the VR320 will work with some display cards used in the DECstation 5000. I do have a spare copy of the VR320 manual and you can have it if you want it. Send me a private email with your mailing address. Hope this helps, Mike Thompson From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Jan 10 09:46:00 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:14 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 part 2 (bootdisk) In-Reply-To: "No Junk Mail"'s message of "Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:21:03 +1100" References: <20565-09137@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <200301100603.h0A63JWp009515@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "No Junk Mail" <3sdiarftt02@sneakemail.com> wrote: > > Otherwise I'd be tempted to try FreeDOS. > > Seems to only be an ISO CD image! Look harder, like at . -Frank McConnell From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Jan 10 11:17:00 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:14 2005 Subject: Fujitsu disk drive info ? Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030110111942.085d97a0@ubanproductions.com> Hello, I picked up a Fujitsu M2284K 80Mb SMD disk drive with a B14L-0300-0018A power supply. Is there any chance that someone has some technical documentation (e.g. power supply schematics) on either the power supply or drive? --tnx --tom From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jan 10 12:09:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:14 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 part 2 (bootdisk) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Jim Strickland wrote: > > Surreal. I just tried to format a 720 in my new WinXP portable and > > the size wasn't even a option. And when I did it through the GUI > > under 2000 the anti-virus scanner had a fit. Finally had to format it > > using the CLI *and* I had to explicitly unmount it first to get the > > anti-virus software to let go. > Weird. You should be able to format a 720 in any 1.44 meg floppy > drive, if memory serves they were designed to be backward compatible > like that. My floppy drive on my PC dates back to my 286 days, so it's > old enough that I haven't had any problems. Don't know anything about > XP though, and don't care either. I'm a happy OS/X user. :) XP did, indeed fuck with the FORMAT program. In 98, they stopped supporting "/F:2", but retained the other ways of formatting a 720K. In XP, they even dropped "/F:20"!! BUT, you can still format a 720K in XP, by using "/T:80/N:9" To repeat what I wrote on 10/24/2002 ("Rise and fall of FORMAT"): 1.00 had 160K (SS, 8 SPT) 1.25/ PC-DOS 1.10 added 320K (DS), with /1 option for FORMAT for doing SS 2.00 added 180K and 360K (9 SPT), with /8 option for FORMAT for doing 8 SPT 2.11 some manufacturers added support for 3.5", but it was specific to each of their customized version of MS-DOS 3.00 added 1.2M, with /4 option for FORMAT for doing 360K (in 1.2M drive) 3.20 added 720K, with /T:80 /N:9 being used to specify 720K 3.30 added 1.4M, added /F:2 for 720K to be easier to remember 5.00? added /F:720 to be easier to remember. Windoze 98 dropped /F:2 Windoze XP dropped /F:720. /F:x is still supported, but only for x == 1.44. /T:x/N:y is still supported, and is the only way to format anything other than 1.4M. T can be 40 or 80, N can be 8, 9, or 15 T and N are used for selecting from an internal menu; they can not be set to other values like a true variable. With it, you can still do: /T:80 /N:9 720K /T:80 /N:8 640K Hmmm! haven't seen that one since the Toshiba T300! /T:40 /N:9 360K /T:40 /N:8 320K /T:80 /N:15 1.2M You can NOT do /T:40 /N:15, (you must choose between supported formats.) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From root at parse.com Fri Jan 10 13:05:01 2003 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:14 2005 Subject: Free PDP-11 Message-ID: <200301101325.IAA01137@parse.com> Saw this on the newsgroups; in case anyone missed it: > Steve Cayford at TDS.NET Internet Services www.tds.net > > Newsgroups: uwisc.forsale,wi.madison.forsale > > Hi. We've got a PDP-11/23 Plus to get rid of. It's free to whoever would > like to come pick it up at Union Cab in Madison. > > Contact me by e-mail if you're interested. Cheers, -RK -- Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Jan 10 13:07:04 2003 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:14 2005 Subject: Mentec Hobbyist plans? Message-ID: <20030110144441.GX5260@mrbill.net> Anybody know if Mentec (http://www.mentec-inc.com) has just dropped their hobbyist licensing/cdrom plans? Bill -- bill bradford mrbill@mrbill.net austin, texas From ERogerWms at aol.com Fri Jan 10 13:08:38 2003 From: ERogerWms at aol.com (ERogerWms@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:14 2005 Subject: Most Accurate Clock II manual Message-ID: <87.2529088a.2b505588@aol.com> Hi: I have been looking for this manual. Did you uncover a source during your search? Thanks, Roger -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030110/f150a0e8/attachment.html From labomb at rochester.rr.com Fri Jan 10 13:10:09 2003 From: labomb at rochester.rr.com (Scott LaBombard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:14 2005 Subject: S100 spares needed - repairs almost done Message-ID: <002201c2b8ca$92ae5b80$02a8a8c0@rochester.rr.com> To clarify a bit ... Don's disks work perfectly with the DD controller ... and with the N* base system itself (post overhaul). However, when I swap out the controller for an SD iteration (tried two actually) ... no joy. While the boot drive does indeed enable, I can hear that no sectors are actually getting read. I'm not positive, but I believe that the N* software (both DOS and CP/M) changed quite a bit with the advent of the DD controller, as did the firmware bootstrap. And while the DD controller can read and format SD disks ...I don't think that it can create bootable disks that work with the older SD controllers. Haven't tried it myself yet ... Scott From robross at earthlink.net Fri Jan 10 13:11:40 2003 From: robross at earthlink.net (Rob Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model I Computers In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030109211248.4907f7f8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Speaking of Model 1's.... I just bought one (for $45), keyboard/cpu only. It's an original Model 1 (no keypad) but has had a Level II upgrade. I have two issues with it though. First, there's a problem with the video. I know the monitor is fine, because I have another cpu unit (Model 1 Level II) and that one works fine with the same monitor. But on the new cpu, the video has "issues". It's "out of focus" and drifts on the monitor. I have to adjust the H-hold and V-hold, and I can get a relatively stable image, but it's offset to the left of the screen such that about 10 characters are clipped, for example I can't see all of the text from the "READY" prompt. So, how do I go about fixing it? hehe. Ok, big question I guess. Lets assume I have no previous experience fixing circuit boards, although I did solder up my share of ICs and logic gates in college. I'm not in a hurry so if I have to become proficient in electronics to make this happen, I will take the time, read the books, etc. Anyone got a reading list to get me from zero-to-McGyvering a circuit board video fix? (I sense a new long-term hobby starting!) Second, how do I go about restoring the Level I Basic ROM? It looks like the original ROMs are not in this machine so I would have to find one or more likely figure out how to burn an EPROM and all that...so how do I get a hold of a ROM image for one, are there references that help me do this, etc? Thanks in advance! Rob From arodriguez at class-ic.com Fri Jan 10 13:13:15 2003 From: arodriguez at class-ic.com (Andrew Rodriguez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: DC003 Message-ID: <008501c2b8d3$b6cd18e0$7a040180@arodriguez2> Hello Greg, I was looking for a DC003 Interrupt logic Chip and found your information on a website. What I need is to know where I can find these chips and who to call. Any information will be greatly appreciated. My information is below so if you can email me or call me, please let me know. Thank you Andrew Rodriguez Classic Components 23605 Telo Ave Torrance, CA 90505 310 539 5500 xt 317 310 539 4500 Fax www.class-ic.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030110/415362ae/attachment.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 10 13:54:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model I Computers In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030109211248.4907f7f8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Jan 9, 3 09:12:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 720 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030110/dc80c35d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 10 13:56:04 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 part 2 (bootdisk) In-Reply-To: <458-28261@sneakemail.com> from "No Junk Mail" at Jan 10, 3 00:06:02 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 365 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030110/92a5f742/attachment.ksh From kth at srv.net Fri Jan 10 15:12:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: Mentec Hobbyist plans? References: <20030110144441.GX5260@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3E1F3C92.5080701@srv.net> Bill Bradford wrote: >Anybody know if Mentec (http://www.mentec-inc.com) has just >dropped their hobbyist licensing/cdrom plans? > >Bill > > Not likely, as they have just announced on the comp.os.vms newsgroup the availability of the VAX-VMS CD's. >The OpenVMS VAX Hobbyist Kits have been remastered, and are scheduled >to begin shipping Jan 20th once we get them back from manufacturing. >The new OpenVMS VAX Hobbyist Kits have been remastered with the latest >O/S and current versions of selected Layered Products. We're now >accepting orders for the new kit from the OpenVMS Hobbyist Web Site at >http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist > >The disk contents are: > >OpenVMS V7.3 DECWindows 1.2.6 (Motif) >DECnet Phase IV DECnet OSI Phase V >TCPIP V5.1 Kerberos VAX V1.0 >BASIC V3.9 Compaq C V6.4 >Compaq FORTRAN V6.6 Pascal V5.8 >DCPS V2.0 DECSet V12.4 >Datatrieve V7.2 > >- David L. Cathey > > From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jan 10 15:21:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: Mentec Hobbyist plans? In-Reply-To: <3E1F3C92.5080701@srv.net> from "Kevin Handy" at Jan 10, 2003 02:35:14 PM Message-ID: <200301102124.h0ALOP8P004799@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >Anybody know if Mentec (http://www.mentec-inc.com) has just > >dropped their hobbyist licensing/cdrom plans? > > > >Bill > > > > > > Not likely, as they have just announced on the comp.os.vms newsgroup > the availability of the VAX-VMS CD's. The OpenVMS Hobbyist program has nothing to do with Mentec. Are you confusing Mentec with Montagar? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Jan 10 15:27:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: Mentec Hobbyist plans? In-Reply-To: <3E1F3C92.5080701@srv.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Kevin Handy wrote: > Bill Bradford wrote: > > >Anybody know if Mentec (http://www.mentec-inc.com) has just > >dropped their hobbyist licensing/cdrom plans? > > > >Bill > > > > > > Not likely, as they have just announced on the comp.os.vms newsgroup > the availability of the VAX-VMS CD's. (trimmed section with reference to Montagar) Maybe it's just me, but Mentec isn't Montagar... and Hpaq owns the rights to (Open)VMS, Mentec owns the rights to PDP-11 stuff.. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From msell at ontimesupport.com Fri Jan 10 15:34:01 2003 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: Mentec Hobbyist plans? In-Reply-To: <3E1F3C92.5080701@srv.net> References: <20030110144441.GX5260@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030110153600.03b6cd50@127.0.0.1> Mentec, not Montagar.... : ) I'm sure Bill is referring to PDP-11 OSs, not VMS. - Matt At 02:35 PM 1/10/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Bill Bradford wrote: > >>Anybody know if Mentec (http://www.mentec-inc.com) has just >>dropped their hobbyist licensing/cdrom plans? >> >>Bill >> > >Not likely, as they have just announced on the comp.os.vms newsgroup >the availability of the VAX-VMS CD's. > >>The OpenVMS VAX Hobbyist Kits have been remastered, and are scheduled >>to begin shipping Jan 20th once we get them back from manufacturing. >>The new OpenVMS VAX Hobbyist Kits have been remastered with the latest >>O/S and current versions of selected Layered Products. We're now >>accepting orders for the new kit from the OpenVMS Hobbyist Web Site at >>http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist >> >>The disk contents are: >> >>OpenVMS V7.3 DECWindows 1.2.6 (Motif) >>DECnet Phase IV DECnet OSI Phase V >>TCPIP V5.1 Kerberos VAX V1.0 >>BASIC V3.9 Compaq C V6.4 >>Compaq FORTRAN V6.6 Pascal V5.8 >>DCPS V2.0 DECSet V12.4 >>Datatrieve V7.2 >> >>- David L. Cathey >> > Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030110/e3dae98d/attachment.html From acme at ao.net Fri Jan 10 16:00:00 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: Osborne OCC1 Message-ID: <200301102203.RAA01912@eola.ao.net> From: Joe To: Glen Goodwin Subject: Re: Osborne OCC1 Date: 01/08/2003 7:55 AM > I recently had an OCC-1 that blew something in the PSU. That odd thing was > at it kept working! I wasn't really intersted in it so I gave it to Glen Good > . I expect that he'll troubleshoot/repai > r it soon. Okay, Joe, I get the hint ;>) I'll take a look at it this weekend -- should be a quick and easy fix. Later -- Glen 0/0 From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 10 16:27:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: Mentec Hobbyist plans? In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Finnegan" at Jan 10, 2003 04:32:26 PM Message-ID: <200301102230.h0AMUTw26155@shell1.aracnet.com> > and Hpaq owns the rights to (Open)VMS, Mentec owns the rights to > PDP-11 stuff.. I don't think it's quite that simple. Zane From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Jan 10 16:35:01 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: Mentec Hobbyist plans? In-Reply-To: <200301102230.h0AMUTw26155@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > and Hpaq owns the rights to (Open)VMS, Mentec owns the rights to > > PDP-11 stuff.. > > I don't think it's quite that simple. Well, from the prior discussions on this list, that's how I thought it worked... I thought that DEC sold the rights to PDP-11 OS's ("stuff") to Mentec several years ago. However, I probably am wrong. If I am, does anyone know the real scoop on who owns what IP? Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com Fri Jan 10 18:12:01 2003 From: 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com (No Junk Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 part 2 (bootdisk) In-Reply-To: <0bc101c2b883$ef954940$2000a8c0@hal> References: <002601c2b881$13411700$513bcd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <2064-71163@sneakemail.com> Woo-hoo! Thanks Deano, the Amstrad boots now. Thanks everyone for your help. At 10/01/2003, you wrote: >You could goto the original source, Cliff Lawson (one of the original >Amstrad team) mantains an archive of most Amstrad software. > >The ppc disks are > >http://web.ukonline.co.uk/cliff.lawson/files/ppcdisks.zip > > >Bye, > Deano From 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com Fri Jan 10 18:33:00 2003 From: 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com (No Junk Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: Old (5.25") PC software In-Reply-To: References: <458-28261@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <14688-86767@sneakemail.com> Hi All, I recently salved a whole bunch of original (PC) 5.25" disks for assorted business and education-oriented software. One product that featured highly and looks like the sort of thing people might still be using is Xilinx's Xact. A huge number of disks -- looks like lots of incremental updates. Some are still sealed in plastic. Anyone want? Other titles of note include: cc:Mail Lotus 123 Pro-Cite Ventura Publisher Project Scheduler 5 Quattro Persona Logican Da Vinci eMail Sun PC-NFS Ansi-Console Softerm PC Compaq MS-DOS 3.31 R&R Report Writer Heaps of Microsoft stuff too. And some Nortons stuff I'm keeping. Some disks have useful things such as serial numbers on them. Given that I'm in Australia anyone who can convince me they're a good home ;) can have them for the cost of postage + a few percent to cope with PayPal fees. KrisHaven {at} SpamCop {dOt} Net Chris J. From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Jan 10 19:08:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: Old (5.25') PC software In-Reply-To: <14688-86767@sneakemail.com> References: <458-28261@sneakemail.com> <14688-86767@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <4077.4.20.168.176.1042247459.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Chris wrote: > One product that featured highly and looks like the sort of thing people > might still be using is Xilinx's Xact. A huge number of disks -- looks > like lots of incremental updates. Some are still sealed in > plastic. Anyone want? XACT is potentially interesting, but unfortunately it requires a dongle. Reportedly the dongle wasn't very sophisticated, but without a working system to poke at with a logic analyzer, it would be harder to figure out how to circumvent it. (Not to mention that it would be a violation of the US DMCA.) These days the only reason to use XACT is if you need to support designs for the oldest Xilinx FPGAs, such as the 2000 and 3000 series. Because of Moore's law, it is not cost effective to develop new designs with those parts, as the newer families such as Spartan II are *much* cheaper. And for current parts under 300K "marketing gates", you can download free WebPack devlopment software from Xilinx. You can get a nice low cost development board with the XC2S300E for US $179 from Tony Burch, http://www.burched.com/ Eric From msell at ontimesupport.com Fri Jan 10 19:27:00 2003 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: Mentec Hobbyist plans? In-Reply-To: References: <200301102230.h0AMUTw26155@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030110192912.03c1dbb0@127.0.0.1> While I'm sure there is quite a bit more to the situation, this is at least what Mentec claims on their website.... - Matt At 05:40 PM 1/10/2003 -0500, you wrote: >On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > > and Hpaq owns the rights to (Open)VMS, Mentec owns the rights to > > > PDP-11 stuff.. > > > > I don't think it's quite that simple. > >Well, from the prior discussions on this list, that's how I thought it >worked... I thought that DEC sold the rights to PDP-11 OS's ("stuff") to >Mentec several years ago. However, I probably am wrong. If I am, does >anyone know the real scoop on who owns what IP? > >Pat >-- >Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS >Information Technology at Purdue >Research Computing and Storage >http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030110/226b9d29/attachment.html From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Fri Jan 10 19:30:01 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: Old (5.25") PC software References: <458-28261@sneakemail.com> <14688-86767@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <004101c2b90f$6cb58a80$434a1942@starfury> I dunno about these, but would anyone happen to have a copy of DOS 2.x or 3.x (2.3 and/or 3.2 maybe) on 3.5 disks, nd with the accompanying user text book? Some of the information in those old texts is still applicable, but can't be found anywhere... Cheers! Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "No Junk Mail" <3sdiarftt02@sneakemail.com> To: Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 06:34 PM Subject: Old (5.25") PC software > Hi All, > > I recently salved a whole bunch of original (PC) 5.25" disks for assorted > business and education-oriented software. > > One product that featured highly and looks like the sort of thing people > might still be using is Xilinx's Xact. A huge number of disks -- looks > like lots of incremental updates. Some are still sealed in > plastic. Anyone want? > > Other titles of note include: > > cc:Mail > Lotus 123 > Pro-Cite > Ventura Publisher > Project Scheduler 5 > Quattro > Persona Logican > Da Vinci eMail > Sun PC-NFS > Ansi-Console > Softerm PC > Compaq MS-DOS 3.31 > R&R Report Writer > > Heaps of Microsoft stuff too. And some Nortons stuff I'm keeping. > > Some disks have useful things such as serial numbers on them. > > Given that I'm in Australia anyone who can convince me they're a good home > ;) can have them for the cost of postage + a few percent to cope with > PayPal fees. > > KrisHaven {at} SpamCop {dOt} Net > > Chris J. > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 10 19:35:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: substitute for TI TIL306/307 Display? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030110204225.0f772c78@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I went to an out of town surplus store a couple of days ago and found 8 new TIL 306s and I've fixed the IC tester that needed them. Thanks to Toth, Glen and everyone else that offered to check their junk boxs for them and/or that offered other help. Joe At 03:52 PM 1/3/03 -0800, you wrote: >http://www-s.ti.com/sc/ds/til311.pdf >http://www-s.ti.com/sc/ds/til306.pdf > >>From: Joe >>Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>Subject: Re: substitute for TI TIL306/307 Display? >>Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 17:00:23 >> >> The 306/307s also have built in BCD decoders. I've been trying to find >>a data sheet on the 311 so that I can see what the difference is between it >>and the 306/307. > > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > From evan947 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 10 20:07:36 2003 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: MCM Model 700 sought... Message-ID: <20030111021019.24653.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> Howdy, list mates. I'd like to acquire a MCM Computers 700 / 702. This was a primitive laptop from 1977. Does anybody have one they'd consider parting with? I'm located in Boston. More information is here: http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=346 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 10 20:13:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: CMOS IC tester? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030110204400.21375556@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Who was it that was looking for a tester for some 4xxx series ICs a few weeks ago? I may be able to help you. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 10 20:14:44 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: HP 9836C (Color!) for sale Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030110205541.13cf50f6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Found this on e-bay. It's a HP 9000 236 (aka 9836) with the COLOR monitor. These are nice systems and make great HP-IB controllers. This one looks complete, it includes two Meg of memory and a full set of cards. It also includes a hP-IB hard drive (hopefully with the OS). . Auction ends in 20 hours so don't delay if you're interested. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 10 20:19:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: FA: HP 9810 Calculator Original Blueprints 1971 Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030110212628.51f7d0d6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> For the SERIOUS HP collector. Joe From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Fri Jan 10 20:21:01 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: Initializing an RL02 disk under RSTS/E Message-ID: <1042251842.24731.1.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> I'm having some difficulties initializing an RL02 disk under RSTS/E 9.2. When I issue the command INITIALIZE _DL1: MYPACK/CLUSTER_SIZE=1 it says that it is an illegal cluster size. This is the cluster size mentioned in the table given by HELP ADVANCED DISKS. It also returns the same error when I don't use the /CLUSTER_SIZE option. What am I doing wrong? -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 10 20:27:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: Serial Keyboard found on EBay... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030111022955.55936.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Ram & Suganthi M." wrote: > Hi, > > I found the perfect serial keyboard for my project. The iBiz KeySync and > there are drivers for Linux! Thanks. Just picked one up. I was asking about serial keyboards some time back to use alongside a serial LCD. Originally, I was kinda looking for a PS/2-to-serial dongle, but this should do for at least one thing I was thinking about. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jan 10 20:52:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: Old (5.25") PC software In-Reply-To: <004101c2b90f$6cb58a80$434a1942@starfury> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Ed Tillman wrote: > I dunno about these, but would anyone happen to have a copy of DOS 2.x or > 3.x (2.3 and/or 3.2 maybe) on 3.5 disks, nd with the accompanying user text > book? Some of the information in those old texts is still applicable, but > can't be found anywhere... There ain't no sech thing as 2.3 2.xx was only available with 3.5" support in specially modified versions for certain specific brands of machines (usually in version 2.11). Even the disk format isn't standardized on those. 3.20 (internally it thinks that it is three point twenty, NOT two), is the first version that includes 3.5" support (720K) without special machine specific modifications. 2.11 and 3.31 are only available in versions that were intended for specific machines. 'Course in most cases, the only thing that is different is the code in MODE.COM, and sometimes FORMAT. If you have a machine with specific peculiarities, 3.31 is the hot setup. From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Jan 10 21:03:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: DEC VK-100 aka GiGi Message-ID: I've finally got around to testing my DEC GiGi, and it appears to work! Now, it seems to start up in 'terminal' mode - does anyone know how to make it start up in 'basic' mode? I'm guessing it might have something to do with the dip switches on the back of it. Does anyone have a listing of the meaning for the switch settings? I've searched google, and haven't found anything that looks useful. Thanks for any help. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Fri Jan 10 21:35:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? References: <200301091950.OAA07053@wordstock.com> <3E1E3D07.25B66E62@mail.verizon.net> <001b01c2b8a0$070f0c20$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> Message-ID: <3E1F9233.7131C8D7@mail.verizon.net> Mike, Michael Nadeau wrote: > Did the publisher tell you the book was out of stock, Eric? I know that's > what Amazon says (my publisher is not all that fond of Amazon and only > begrudgingly does business with them). > No, I am going what I saw at the VCF site about the book. Is this in error? Are there copies available? > > I have copies that I sell directly--$29.95 by M.O. or check or PayPal. > Sellam also sells the book through his website (www.vintage.org). > I believe it was at VCF that stated "out of stock." Let me check again... hold on... Clearly in bold at the bottom of page:: http://www.vintage.org/special/collectible.php it states "Sorry, we are temporarily out of stock!" > > The Haddock book cover is yellow, and my book is orange--wouldn't have been > my first choice, but it's grown on me. > Sorry to pick nits. Haddock's book, as good as it is, is dated. I'd love to see a more uptodate reference, book cover color aside. :) Thanks for posting, and let me know how I can get a copy. Thanks, Eric > > --Mike > > Michael Nadeau > Editor/Publisher > Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource > www.classictechpub.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Eric Chomko" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:24 PM > Subject: Re: Help with pricing on vintage computers? > > > Right and the book is now out of stock! > > > > It seems that the cover color is surprising similar to Dr. Tom Haddock's > book > > on computer collecting. > > > > I'd like to get a copy of Nadeau's book nonetheless. > > > > Eric > > > > Bryan Pope wrote: > > > > > What about Michael Nadeau's book? For more info about it go to: > > > http://www.vintage.org/special/collectible.php > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Bryan > > > > > > And thusly Mike spake: > > > > > > > > If there was, it would be woefully out of date. The internet and > sites > > > > like ebay have created a whole new audience. > > > > > > > > Supply and demand works but with an expanded listing and selling > audience, > > > > the imperical data on prices is yet to be analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > > > > > > > I am new to the list and really love it already. I was wondering if > > > > > anyone knew if there was a resource, like Kelley Blue Book sort of, > for > > > > > vintage computer pricing? I have several to sell and several I would > > > > > like to get, but I have no idea what to ask or expect to pay for > them > > > > > (or even if they are collectible for that matter LOL). Any help > would be > > > > > appreciated. I am not looking for a book per se, but some place (a > > > > > website maybe?) to get some ball park figures. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Greg Manuel > > > > From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Fri Jan 10 22:55:01 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: Mentec Hobbyist plans? References: <20030110144441.GX5260@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3E1FA431.47FEEA94@compsys.to> >Bill Bradford wrote: > Anybody know if Mentec (http://www.mentec-inc.com) has just > dropped their hobbyist licensing/cdrom plans? > Bill > bill bradford > mrbill@mrbill.net > austin, texas Jerome Fine replies: Form your own opinion! Please correct any information which is wrong! NOTE: I plan to release a Y2K/Y10K V5.03 of RT-11. I have started on the design and will very shortly post the details. I am looking for a web site to host the files. Can anyone help? ============================================ While the following dates apply mostly to RT-11, the dates for the versions of RSX-11 and RSTS/E which are allowed are probably similar. (a) Probable date of the current Mentec hobby license: (i) Earliest date is probably 1994 when Mentec first became involved with PDP-11 software (ii) Latest date is probably 1997 since the hobby license was already known about (as far as I know) (iii) Actual date was probably 1995 or 1996 (b) Current version of RT-11 allowed under the hobby license is V5.03 released in 1985 (c) V5.06 of RT-11 was released in August 1992 - after that DEC disbanded the RT-11 development team and RT-11 was frozen as far as DEC was concerned (d) A number of individuals produced Y2K bugs fixes for various versions of RT-11, but none for the hobby users (I know since I was one of then - produced them for V5.04G) (e) V5.07 of RT-11 was released in November 1998 - the Y2K bugs were fixed along with a few other bugs - NO enhancements at all (as far as I know EXCEPT perhaps the ether net code which might not have been working correctly - bug fix as well) (f) Mentec no longer fixes any of the bugs in RT-11, let alone makes any additional enhancements (if Mentec attempts to deny that, I have a number of bugs for them to fix - a few of the bugs crash RT-11 and some of the bugs have been there for decades) As far as I know, it seems likely that DEC/Compaq/HP still own the copyright to the DOC set for RT-11. For V5.07, the DOC set is identical to the DOC set for V5.06 EXCEPT that there is a manual of Release Notes for V5.07 that is about all the changes from V5.06 to V5.07 of RT-11. Obviously I may be wrong about the copyright ownership of the DOC set. I don't know anything about the DOC sets for RSX-11 and RSTS/E. On June 6th, 2002, I first saw a web page from Mentec for the hobby license program which was under construction - it is NO longer there. While RSX-11 may still produce net revenue for Mentec, RSTS/E is unlikely to do more than break even. I can't see that Mentec is selling sufficient RT-11 licenses at this point to make a profit from such sales. ============================================ VMS licenses are available through Compaq/HP for the most recent versions of VMS that run on Alpha.. HP is still making many millions of dollars from selling VMS licenses to commercial users and VMS is still under active development. ============================================ Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jan 10 23:04:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: substitute for TI TIL306/307 Display? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030110204225.0f772c78@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030110204225.0f772c78@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Joe wrote: > I went to an out of town surplus store a couple of days ago and found 8 > new TIL 306s and I've fixed the IC tester that needed them. Thanks to > Toth, Glen and everyone else that offered to check their junk boxs for > them and/or that offered other help. Good to hear! I'm still going to keep a look out from now on for those displays since they seem to be incredibly scarce. -Toth From fernande at internet1.net Fri Jan 10 23:28:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: Free PDP-11 In-Reply-To: <200301101325.IAA01137@parse.com> References: <200301101325.IAA01137@parse.com> Message-ID: <3E1FAC00.6090801@internet1.net> Too bad it's over 5 hours from me! I don't have that kind of time. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Robert Krten wrote: > Saw this on the newsgroups; in case anyone missed it: > > > >>Steve Cayford at TDS.NET Internet Services www.tds.net >> >>Newsgroups: uwisc.forsale,wi.madison.forsale >> >>Hi. We've got a PDP-11/23 Plus to get rid of. It's free to whoever would >>like to come pick it up at Union Cab in Madison. >> >>Contact me by e-mail if you're interested. > > > Cheers, > -RK From gil at vauxelectronics.com Fri Jan 10 23:31:00 2003 From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700 model 743 Message-ID: <3.0.32.20030110223800.008e1520@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Hi folks: I recently obtained a TI Silent 700 terminal, model 743 EIA. Does anyone have the pinout of the DB-15M connector, or any other useful info on this model? Is a manual online somewhere? It seems bigger than some of the other Silent 700 models -- does this make it earlier? thanks, gil ;----------------------------------------------------------- ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) ;----------------------------------------------------------- From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 11 00:22:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: DC003 In-Reply-To: <008501c2b8d3$b6cd18e0$7a040180@arodriguez2> Message-ID: <20030111062453.78119.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Andrew Rodriguez wrote: > I was looking for a DC003 Interrupt logic Chip and found your information > on a website. What I need is to know where I can find these chips and > who to call. How many are you looking for? 1? 10? 1000? I might have one or two in engineering spares. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From bernd at kopriva.de Sat Jan 11 02:14:01 2003 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: HP 9836C (Color!) for sale In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030110205541.13cf50f6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <18XGpZ-1px7ZoC@fmrl04.sul.t-online.com> Ahhh, that one looks really great ... ... but no chance to make a local pickup from germany :-( Bernd On Fri, 10 Jan 2003 20:55:41, Joe wrote: >Found this on e-bay. It's a HP 9000 236 (aka 9836) with the COLOR monitor. These are nice systems and make great HP-IB controllers. This one looks complete, it includes two Meg of memory and a full set of cards. It also includes a hP-IB hard drive (hopefully with the OS). . > > Auction ends in 20 hours so don't delay if you're interested. > > Joe > From menadeau at attbi.com Sat Jan 11 09:27:00 2003 From: menadeau at attbi.com (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? References: <200301091950.OAA07053@wordstock.com> <3E1E3D07.25B66E62@mail.verizon.net> <001b01c2b8a0$070f0c20$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> <3E1F9233.7131C8D7@mail.verizon.net> Message-ID: <008001c2b985$ed6fa0e0$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> > Michael Nadeau wrote: > > > Did the publisher tell you the book was out of stock, Eric? I know that's > > what Amazon says (my publisher is not all that fond of Amazon and only > > begrudgingly does business with them). > > > > No, I am going what I saw at the VCF site about the book. Is this in error? > Are there copies available? I've heard from two people who have bought the book in the last few days--one directly from the publisher and another from Barnes & Noble, so it is available. >Thanks for posting, and let me know how I can get a copy. Info for ordering from me is at http://www.classictechpub.com/collectmicros.htm, and I do have copies. --Mike > > Thanks, > Eric > > > > > --Mike > > > > Michael Nadeau > > Editor/Publisher > > Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource > > www.classictechpub.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Eric Chomko" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:24 PM > > Subject: Re: Help with pricing on vintage computers? > > > > > Right and the book is now out of stock! > > > > > > It seems that the cover color is surprising similar to Dr. Tom Haddock's > > book > > > on computer collecting. > > > > > > I'd like to get a copy of Nadeau's book nonetheless. > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > Bryan Pope wrote: > > > > > > > What about Michael Nadeau's book? For more info about it go to: > > > > http://www.vintage.org/special/collectible.php > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > Bryan > > > > > > > > And thusly Mike spake: > > > > > > > > > > If there was, it would be woefully out of date. The internet and > > sites > > > > > like ebay have created a whole new audience. > > > > > > > > > > Supply and demand works but with an expanded listing and selling > > audience, > > > > > the imperical data on prices is yet to be analyzed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > > > > > > > > > I am new to the list and really love it already. I was wondering if > > > > > > anyone knew if there was a resource, like Kelley Blue Book sort of, > > for > > > > > > vintage computer pricing? I have several to sell and several I would > > > > > > like to get, but I have no idea what to ask or expect to pay for > > them > > > > > > (or even if they are collectible for that matter LOL). Any help > > would be > > > > > > appreciated. I am not looking for a book per se, but some place (a > > > > > > website maybe?) to get some ball park figures. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Greg Manuel > > > > > > > From allain at panix.com Sat Jan 11 10:04:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: DEC VK-100 aka GiGi References: Message-ID: <004401c2b98b$6f66dc80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > does anyone know how to make it start up in 'basic' mode? What aouut the Setup screen? I see from my proto archive (all I have of a GiGi) that it has one. More common mode changes are typically made there. John A. From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sat Jan 11 10:19:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: Integrated Computer Systems Standard Prototype Microcomputer Message-ID: <019d01c2b98d$8c59ae10$6e7ba8c0@piii933> << This is a re-sent message - slightly updated. The first two are probably queued and should be deleted. I'm sorry in advance if I end up with multiple posts >> Hello, I've just come into possession of an "Integrated Computer Systems Standard Prototype Microcomputer." The system, as I received it, consists of three parts: a power supply, a single board computer/trainer similar to a Kim-1 and an "interfacing" board. The "computer" part has an 8080a (AMD), 4 2708 EPROMS (one labeled MDS DEMO) and a bit of RAM (2114s) as well as a hex keypad surrounded by control keys (reset, step, run, etc.) There is an eight position LED display above the keypad. Sections of the board are labeled with their functions including clock, control logic, buffers and address decode as well as keyboard and display and tape i/o. There are two 50 pin connectors tagged as ITS and S-100 and two RCA plugs for, I assume, audio data in and out. I guessed that the ITS connector should connect to the "Interface System" mentioned above. The "Interface System" has a bunch of different connectors around the edges including ones labeled for Serial, TTY and RS232 interfacing. There is also a "thermistor experimental board that includes a cooling fan with opto-speed control and alarm circuitry" that will be coming under separate cover. For the price I paid I wasn't expecting this to work on arrival so I wasn't surprised to find that it's flakey at best. When powered up the LED display is random and pressing the reset button will usually clear it, but not without random stuff popping up from time to time. No other keypad keys seem to do anything. I've put pictures up at http://www.vintage-computer.com/ics.htm (sorry that they're a little bigger then usual) Has anyone ever seen one of these before? Does anyone have any manuals for it or any ideas what might be wrong with it from my brief description? Google turned up nothing. . . Thanks! Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com From pat at purdueriots.com Sat Jan 11 10:36:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: DEC VK-100 aka GiGi In-Reply-To: <004401c2b98b$6f66dc80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, John Allain wrote: > > does anyone know how to make it start up in 'basic' mode? > > What aouut the Setup screen? I've looked through that, and it's not quite verbose enough to help me make changes. Some things like "RS6 9600" I can figure out sets the recieving rate to 9600bps, but things like "YK0 Off" and "YK1 On" or "QD0 Ena" "QD0 Dis" aren't so obvious (I'm making those up as examples, I don't have the Gigi connected at the moment to determine 'real' examples). I went through all of the 'setup' possibilities, and haven't yet seen anything that looks like it applies. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From michael_davidson at pacbell.net Sat Jan 11 11:58:04 2003 From: michael_davidson at pacbell.net (Michael Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: DC003 References: <008501c2b8d3$b6cd18e0$7a040180@arodriguez2> Message-ID: <3E205B46.9000202@pacbell.net> I tried to track down a source for the DC003 a couple of years ago and came up with nothing. There are/were a few web sites which listed the DC003 but nobody really seemed to have any. Much as I hate to suggest this, if you *really* need a DC003 (to repair a board, for example) about your only option is to remove one from another board. If memory serves, a DLV11J 4 port async serial interface would be a good place to look since they are not particularly hard to find and I *think* (sorry, I don't have one I can look at right now) they have 4 DC003 chips on them. Be aware that removing chips that are soldered to an existing board without damaging them will almost certainly involve at least one of the following: - access to and expertise in using professional desoldering equipment - destroying the board Michael Davidson Andrew Rodriguez wrote: > Hello Greg, > > I was looking for a DC003 Interrupt logic Chip and found your > information on a website. What I need is to know where I can find > these chips and who to call. Any information will be greatly > appreciated. My information is below so if you can email me or call > me, please let me know. > > > > Thank you > > > > Andrew Rodriguez > Classic Components > 23605 Telo Ave > Torrance, CA 90505 > 310 539 5500 xt 317 > 310 539 4500 Fax > www.class-ic.com > From kenziem at sympatico.ca Sat Jan 11 14:54:00 2003 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: Old machine photos Message-ID: <20030111205702.UYLR7873.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> I've finally purchased a digital camera! Any recommendations on photographing machines? resolution, size, positions - front, back, inside, screen shots? I was thinking of starting with the machines I'm currently working on (cromemco system 3, AS400 9404, and Commodore SP9000) and then move through the collection as time and web space permit. From jingber at ix.netcom.com Sat Jan 11 15:07:00 2003 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: Old machine photos In-Reply-To: <20030111205702.UYLR7873.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> References: <20030111205702.UYLR7873.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <1042319377.2243.2.camel@supermicro> Poor photographs of computers are a pet peeve of mine. All of the photos I've seen on the web (with rare exception) are generally lousy. The photos, IMHO, are just as valuable as having the documentation and software for any system. It is a useful tool for making comparisons. Jeff On Sat, 2003-01-11 at 15:56, Mike Kenzie wrote: > > I've finally purchased a digital camera! > > Any recommendations on photographing machines? > > resolution, size, positions - front, back, inside, screen shots? > > I was thinking of starting with the machines I'm currently working on > (cromemco system 3, AS400 9404, and Commodore SP9000) and then move through > the collection as time and web space permit. > From mbg at TheWorld.com Sat Jan 11 15:22:00 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: DEC VK-100 aka GiGi References: Message-ID: <200301112125.QAA110633764@shell.TheWorld.com> >What aouut the Setup screen? I see from my proto archive >(all I have of a GiGi) that it has one. More common mode >changes are typically made there. Yes, it does have a setup mode... I don't have my manuals immediately available (they're all in storage), but if you go into setup mode and select 'BA', that allows you to set the BASIC mode. Try digits like 0 and 1 to disable and enable it. You might also need to set 'LL' (local) mode. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | | | | "this space | (s/ at /@/) | | unavoidably left blank" | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Jan 11 15:25:01 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: DEC VK-100 aka GiGi Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C8CE@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> *prod* alive? sup? *hug* --f From kth at srv.net Sat Jan 11 15:35:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: DEC VK-100 aka GiGi References: Message-ID: <3E209388.9050101@srv.net> Patrick Finnegan wrote: >On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, John Allain wrote: > > > >>>does anyone know how to make it start up in 'basic' mode? >>> >>> >>What aouut the Setup screen? >> >> > >I've looked through that, and it's not quite verbose enough to help me >make changes. Some things like "RS6 9600" I can figure out sets the >recieving rate to 9600bps, but things like "YK0 Off" and "YK1 On" or "QD0 >Ena" "QD0 Dis" aren't so obvious (I'm making those up as examples, I >don't have the Gigi connected at the moment to determine 'real' examples). >I went through all of the 'setup' possibilities, and haven't yet seen >anything that looks like it applies. > > > Downloaded a manual for the GIGI some time ago (sorry, can't remember where from) while looking for REGIS programming info, and it says that the SETUP menu has the following: LL is for line/local. LL1 is on-line, LL0 is local. BA is for basic. BA0 is basic mode off. BA1 is basic mode on. Actually, there are three manuals, taking up about 70MB space. Far too big to email. File names are as follows AA-K335A-TK GIGI BASIC Manual.tif EK-VK100-IN-002 GIGI Terminal Installation And Owner's Manual.tif EK-VK100-TM-001 VK100 Technical Manual.tif search the web, and you should be able to find them (hopefully). From nickandlori at charter.net Sat Jan 11 15:56:01 2003 From: nickandlori at charter.net (Nick and Lori) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: Old machine photos References: <20030111205702.UYLR7873.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <004b01c2b9bc$afea6700$7a00a8c0@themillers> I like to take photos of my systems at the highest resolution supported by my camera (4 MP). If I need to email or post the photo I can come up with a reduced quality/resolution jpeg with any number of photo editing tools. Don't rely on your camera's flash to provide lighting either, you will get all kinds of stray reflections. I like to set up a few lamps and also take advantage of any natural light. I would also take photos from all directions and definitely take several of the insides. You'll want to get photos of the motherboard, cards, power supply and any other interesting details. I can usually make out chip markings and motherboard part numbers on the photos I take. The photos will come in handy down the road after you've forgotten what's in the machine. Hope this helps, Nick Miller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Kenzie" To: Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 2:56 PM Subject: Old machine photos > > I've finally purchased a digital camera! > > Any recommendations on photographing machines? > > resolution, size, positions - front, back, inside, screen shots? > > I was thinking of starting with the machines I'm currently working on > (cromemco system 3, AS400 9404, and Commodore SP9000) and then move through > the collection as time and web space permit. > > From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sat Jan 11 16:01:01 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: Old machine photos References: <20030111205702.UYLR7873.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> <004b01c2b9bc$afea6700$7a00a8c0@themillers> Message-ID: <3E209508.2070205@gifford.co.uk> Nick and Lori wrote: > Don't rely on your camera's flash to provide lighting either, you will get > all kinds of stray reflections. I like to set up a few lamps and also take > advantage of any natural light. I'd go so far as to say that lighting is the most important factor in a good classic computer photo. I have a 500W halogen floodlight that I sometimes use for this sort of thing. Also a copy-stand with two photoflood bulbs in. Makes a lot of heat, but worth it. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jan 11 16:08:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:15 2005 Subject: Old machine photos In-Reply-To: <20030111205702.UYLR7873.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030111171617.21d7ae92@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:56 PM 1/11/03 -0500, you wrote: > >I've finally purchased a digital camera! > >Any recommendations on photographing machines? > >resolution, size, positions - front, back, inside, screen shots? 1) Get a good photo editing program. Use it to crop the photos, tweak the color etc. If you crop the photos you can post pictures with higher resoluation and still keep the file size down. 2) Buy and use a heavy tripod. It will make a world of difference in your photos. You can never hold a camera as steady as it can and you'll be amazed how much sharper in the photos will be. Speaking of sharpness, my Mavica seeems to "average" out the pixels in the images. I use the Filter Sharpen function in Photoshop and it ALWAYS improves the images. 3) Photograph your stuff under GOOD light. The digital cameras don't handle a very wide range of light levels so you need to use strong light but be careful of the glare. 4) If your computer room is cluttered use a backdrop behind your subject to hide the clutter. Your photos will look 1000% better. I use a large light blue denium bedspread. The color doesn't detract from the subject and it's large enough to hide a lot of junk, er, ah, other interesting projects. Have fun. Send us the URL after you get some pictures posted. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jan 11 16:25:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: DEC PDP-8 Paper Tapes? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030111173405.437f2e7a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I picked up a bunch of unknown paper tapes last week. I was sorting through them today and found several tapes that have "Digital Equipment Corporation Programmed Data Processor" printer along the length of them. The label on one of them also says "Memory CKR BRD (LOW)", "Memory CKR BRD (HIGH)", "Memory ADDR BRD (LOW)", "Memory ADDR BRD (HIGH)". That one also has "PDP-8" written on it in pencil. So I'm guessing that these are all for the PDP-8. The tapes are marked variously "DB3", "DB4 SIMAT #1 3 SW TEST", "PAL III", "Combined BB#51, INT #15, CORR #21 and Patches 1-11". Does anyone know what these titles mean? All of the tapes are on blue plastic spools that are 4 inches in diameter and 1 1/4 inch thick. Each spool has a removable blue plastic cylinder (with one end closed) that slips over it. In the center of the spools are white plastic inserts with a hole and three radial drive slots. The covers are marked "Reel-Dex Part No. 30" and "Numeridex Incorporated Wheeling, Illinois 60090". It's pretty obvious that the spools are made to be used directly in a PT reader. But does anyone know what kind? Joe From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Sat Jan 11 16:31:00 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: DEC PDP-8 Paper Tapes? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030111173405.437f2e7a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030111173405.437f2e7a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1042324447.10991.2.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> On Sat, 2003-01-11 at 12:34, Joe wrote: > The label on one of them also says "Memory CKR BRD (LOW)", > "Memory CKR BRD (HIGH)", "Memory ADDR BRD (LOW)", "Memory ADDR BRD (HIGH)". > That one also has "PDP-8" written on it in pencil. So I'm guessing that these > are all for the PDP-8. The tapes are marked variously "DB3", > "DB4 SIMAT #1 3 SW TEST", "PAL III", "Combined BB#51, INT #15, > CORR #21 and Patches 1-11". Does anyone know what these titles mean? > Well, PAL III would be the PAL III assembler. The ones with Memory in the title are diagnostic routines for checking the core memory. Not sure what the others are. -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From d-gordon at sbcglobal.net Sat Jan 11 16:59:00 2003 From: d-gordon at sbcglobal.net (Dave) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: DEC PDP-8 Paper Tapes? What are these? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030111173405.437f2e7a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: I have some of the paper tapes too with Digital Equipment Corp on them. Mine also have various tests on them and some say Basic. However mine are not in spools--mine are folded over on top of each other like 8 inches long before being folded back on itself and then they are stored in a fancy blue case where you slide each folded stack into. I am trying to figure out if these are any good to anybody or whether they are only good on one specific system. Can someone help me out here. I am pretty sure they are from a large DEC computer used in a university in the 1960s and 1970s becuase the dates on them are from 1965 to 1978. -Dave > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Joe > Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 5:34 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: DEC PDP-8 Paper Tapes? > > > I picked up a bunch of unknown paper tapes last week. I was > sorting through them today and found several tapes that have > "Digital Equipment Corporation Programmed Data Processor" > printer along the length of them. The label on one of them also > says "Memory CKR BRD (LOW)", "Memory CKR BRD (HIGH)", "Memory > ADDR BRD (LOW)", "Memory ADDR BRD (HIGH)". That one also has > "PDP-8" written on it in pencil. So I'm guessing that these are > all for the PDP-8. The tapes are marked variously "DB3", "DB4 > SIMAT #1 3 SW TEST", "PAL III", "Combined BB#51, INT #15, CORR > #21 and Patches 1-11". Does anyone know what these titles mean? > > All of the tapes are on blue plastic spools that are 4 inches > in diameter and 1 1/4 inch thick. Each spool has a removable blue > plastic cylinder (with one end closed) that slips over it. In the > center of the spools are white plastic inserts with a hole and > three radial drive slots. The covers are marked "Reel-Dex Part > No. 30" and "Numeridex Incorporated Wheeling, Illinois 60090". > It's pretty obvious that the spools are made to be used directly > in a PT reader. But does anyone know what kind? > > Joe > From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Sat Jan 11 17:06:00 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: DEC PDP-8 Paper Tapes? What are these? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1042326561.10991.4.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> On Sat, 2003-01-11 at 18:02, Dave wrote: > I have some of the paper tapes too with Digital Equipment Corp on them. > Mine also have various tests on them and some say Basic. However mine are > not in spools--mine are folded over on top of each other like 8 inches long > before being folded back on itself and then they are stored in a fancy blue > case where you slide each folded stack into. I am trying to figure out if > these are any good to anybody or whether they are only good on one specific > system. Can someone help me out here. I am pretty sure they are from a > large DEC computer used in a university in the 1960s and 1970s becuase the > dates on them are from 1965 to 1978. > > -Dave > If you could post a list of them, I'm sure many of us could help you out. -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 11 17:30:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000TX and 1400LT In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20030110000012.015d5580@pop3.ihug.co.nz> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Jan 2003 mike@ambientdesign.com wrote: > I wonder how many of us there are in the Aus/NZ region. Probably quite a > few. Actually, there are. I was trying to organize a VCF Down Under a year back but couldn't get a critical mass going. Maybe in another year or so. BTW, they're still discussing having a classic computer get-together on the VCF-OZ Yahoo! group that someone started. If interested, e-mail me and I'll let you know how to find it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 11 17:30:27 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: HP 7970 E spool disk drive (fwd) In-Reply-To: <007201c2b7f7$68f83fa0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, Jay West wrote: > *sigh* I have been wanting another 7970E for a long time, just seems like > the timing has been wrong every time. Wonder just what shipping from india > would be? Probably a LOT! I wouldn't doubt if that 7970 is still at WeirdStuff. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 11 17:30:45 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: original apple portable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Lynn Thompson wrote: > If you want something you never had, then you need to do something you've > never done. > Oprah Winfrey What does it mean when Oprah is being quoted on the CC list? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 11 17:31:02 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: HP 7970 E spool disk drive (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, John Lawson wrote: > Been there, done that more than once, was going to get the t-shirt but I > had to give it away as a bribe. :) > That's one of the reasons there is so little used gear availale in > India - everyone hangs on desperately to whatever they have. Memo to self: Scratch plans for VCF India. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 11 17:31:21 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: <00f501c2b6b2$c7f74460$6401a8c0@home> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, John Clarke wrote: > Anyway, is there some way to find out what the value of my Compaq is? Sure, I'll tell you: $5. :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 11 17:31:39 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: <000b01c2b6cf$e9192560$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Erik S. Klein wrote: > I would estimate that your Compaq is probably worth between $50 and $200 > depending on condition and what other original parts you have with it > and, of course, who is buying it and where. I think that is incredibly overly optimistic. The original Compaq portable was sold in such numbers that literally tens of thousands still exist in garages and closets all over the country (and perhaps the world). I run into one nearly everytime I go out looking for old computers. They are not only not rare, they are incredibly common. Quoting between $50 and $200 for one is ludicrous even at eBay dollars. >   About a year ago, I paid $100 for a like-new Compaq with all of the > original manuals and disks, which I considered reasonable considering > the machine. I’ve passed over trashed Compaq’s for under $10.   Best > regards and best of luck! Erik, I'm sorry to say but I think you ripped yourself off. :( Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 11 17:33:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: <86.246b9723.2b4f942b@aol.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Jan 2003 JOHNSOY@aol.com wrote: > Great bargain. Will sale for $300.00. That sounds high but this is one Not only does that sound high, it IS high! Count your blessings if you get $10 for it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 11 17:33:19 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? In-Reply-To: <3E1E3D07.25B66E62@mail.verizon.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, Eric Chomko wrote: > Right and the book is now out of stock! Out of stock only from my website. The book is available as a special order item on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0764316001/qid=1042219704/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/103-0020096-5964664?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 If there is enough demand then I would imagine Schiffer might do a re-print, but it would have to be a LOT of demand probably. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 11 17:33:36 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? In-Reply-To: <008e01c2b829$e4683640$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, John Allain wrote: > There's Mike Nadeau and Sellam Ismael's "real" > book on the subject, wherever it is. It's on Amazon, for one ;) > Spend 2 hours a week on eBay category 1247 > http://listings.ebay.com/aw/listings/list/category1247 or the search > engine to know their prices for whatever it is that you want. Ugh. I cannot express enough how much I abhor eBay prices. Unless you knock off the top 10 highest and bottom 10 lowest prices then take the average, the prices on eBay only reflect pricing in eBay dollars, which is to say it is based on some pricing that is of another dimension and has no meaning in our own universe. The corollary is that if there are not enough representative samples to knock off the top 10 and bottom 10 then eBay is not suitable to use as a means to price things. Buy Mike's book instead. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 11 17:33:54 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: Mac Portable M5120 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, Larry Hammer wrote: > I have a Mac Portable M5120. It boots (when the hard drive is given enough > time) and comes with the original carrying case. > > Does anyone have any idea how much this is worth? How should I sell it? $30-$50 Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 11 17:34:11 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? In-Reply-To: <200301091950.OAA07053@wordstock.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, Bryan Pope wrote: > What about Michael Nadeau's book? For more info about it go to: > http://www.vintage.org/special/collectible.php Indeed, and it is very current, having just come out. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From JOHNSOY at aol.com Sat Jan 11 18:13:01 2003 From: JOHNSOY at aol.com (JOHNSOY@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" Message-ID: <24.34432f64.2b520dbd@aol.com> Please remove me from your mailing lists. I am not interested in receiving 200 emails aday. I know nothing about old computers. I just bought one because it was in good shape and I was interested in its value. I know now so please remove Johnsoy@aol.com from this your club. PLEASE. Thank you and good luck to all you collectors. YVONNE Y -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030111/7d5b969d/attachment.html From jingber at ix.netcom.com Sat Jan 11 18:17:00 2003 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: Lot's of stuff available, free for pickup (Miami) Message-ID: <1042330750.3015.17.camel@supermicro> Doing a little cleaning up. Everything is available for free if you come and pick it up (downtown Miami, FL). If there's something here you'd really like to have shipped, e-mail me and we can work out some type of trade. As always, please respond off-list. NeXT N4000 MegaPixel display. Looks brand new. NeXT non-ADB keyboard, mouse, and soundbox set. Somewhat ragged. NeXT non-ADB mouse. This one looks very nice. NeXT Color inkjet printer. Works, but needs new plunger for magenta pump. Includes manual. IBM 5150 monochrome monitor. Good condition. IBM PC/XT keyboard. Missing two keys. Maybe useful for springs or keycaps. IBM PCjr manual set. Guide to ops, BASIC manual, and sampler disk. All new, sealed. Motorola MicroTac "flip phone" cell phone with complete car kit (Mic, base, speaker, antenna, etc.). Circa '95 Dunlop golf clubs in bag (complete set). There are several clubs. I don't play golf, so you'll have to ask questions if you'd like more details. New in box golf-club carrier on wheels, presumably for those Dunlop clubs. Jeff From spc at conman.org Sat Jan 11 18:30:00 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: Old machine photos In-Reply-To: <20030111205702.UYLR7873.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> from "Mike Kenzie" at Jan 11, 2003 03:56:49 PM Message-ID: <200301120033.TAA13825@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Mike Kenzie once stated: > > > I've finally purchased a digital camera! > > Any recommendations on photographing machines? > > resolution, size, positions - front, back, inside, screen shots? Grab a solid colored towel or sheet for the backdrop. It cuts down on background clutter and focuses the attention to the machine. Also, think about getting a tripod for the camera. Since digital cameras are pretty slow (compared to regular film) the stability a tripod affords makes the images sharper. Here are some shots I did of my laptop (a Toshiba T1900C): http://www.flummux.org/toshiba/ (the full image is 1984x1488, the half is half that size in both directions, the quarter one 1/4 the size in both directions, the thumbnail is the size I picked for thumbnails). You might also want to play around with various settings---I didn't know about the "WB" setting (forgot what it stands for)---it sets the camera for different lighting temperatures (indoor, bright sunlight, indirect sunlight, flast) and that does make a difference (the color in the images above is a bit off since I didn't know about them with I took the pictures). -spc (Look closely at the screen---you can even make out what I'm running on the system 8-) From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sat Jan 11 19:34:01 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <01b301c2b9db$121b9890$6e7ba8c0@piii933> "Erik, I'm sorry to say but I think you ripped yourself off." Hehe. I may have but the condition of the machine and manuals sold me on the deal. The thrasher's I've passed up were truly junk. Either way, I've made far worse financial decisions in my time, so I wouldn't be too bummed about overpaying on a $100 machine. Erik www.vintage-computer.com -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Sellam Ismail Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:26 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: An original Compaq "portable" On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Erik S. Klein wrote: > I would estimate that your Compaq is probably worth between $50 and $200 > depending on condition and what other original parts you have with it > and, of course, who is buying it and where. I think that is incredibly overly optimistic. The original Compaq portable was sold in such numbers that literally tens of thousands still exist in garages and closets all over the country (and perhaps the world). I run into one nearly everytime I go out looking for old computers. They are not only not rare, they are incredibly common. Quoting between $50 and $200 for one is ludicrous even at eBay dollars. > ? About a year ago, I paid $100 for a like-new Compaq with all of the > original manuals and disks, which I considered reasonable considering > the machine. I?ve passed over trashed Compaq?s for under $10. ? Best > regards and best of luck! Erik, I'm sorry to say but I think you ripped yourself off. :( Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sat Jan 11 19:38:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: original apple portable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <01b401c2b9db$c03684d0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> The same thing it means when Oprah is quoted anywhere else. . . I'd tell you what that is but it would only degrade into an impolite discourse on the stupidity of the average American and that wouldn't really be appropriate for the CC list. :) Maybe I should have quoted Oprah in my request for information on the Integrated Computer Systems Standard Prototype Microcomputer? Erik www.vintage-computer.com -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Sellam Ismail Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 8:57 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: original apple portable On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Lynn Thompson wrote: > If you want something you never had, then you need to do something you've > never done. > Oprah Winfrey What does it mean when Oprah is being quoted on the CC list? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Jan 11 20:01:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: Old machine photos In-Reply-To: <1042319377.2243.2.camel@supermicro> References: <20030111205702.UYLR7873.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> <1042319377.2243.2.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <32924.64.169.63.74.1042337042.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Poor photographs of computers are a pet peeve of mine. All of the > photos I've seen on the web (with rare exception) are generally lousy. > > The photos, IMHO, are just as valuable as having the documentation and > software for any system. It is a useful tool for making comparisons. > > Jeff That all may be true, but it's not very constructive. How about telling us what people are doing wrong, and suggestions for improvements? From jingber at ix.netcom.com Sat Jan 11 20:19:00 2003 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: Old machine photos In-Reply-To: <32924.64.169.63.74.1042337042.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <20030111205702.UYLR7873.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> <1042319377.2243.2.camel@supermicro> <32924.64.169.63.74.1042337042.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <1042338109.4151.8.camel@supermicro> On Sat, 2003-01-11 at 21:04, Eric Smith wrote: > > Poor photographs of computers are a pet peeve of mine. All of the > > photos I've seen on the web (with rare exception) are generally lousy. > > > > The photos, IMHO, are just as valuable as having the documentation and > > software for any system. It is a useful tool for making comparisons. > > > > Jeff > > That all may be true, but it's not very constructive. How about telling > us what people are doing wrong, and suggestions for improvements? Without pointing out specific examples - 1) The size of the pictures are generally too small, sometimes not much larger than a thumbnail. There should be several sizes available, including very high resolution shots. 2) The pictures are often out of focus, grainly, or have poor lighting. 3) Labels or markings are often impossible to discern. The "pictures", as I refer to them, are those generally seen on classic-computer collection-related web sites. Obviously, there are not too many of us who moonlight as photographers and I'm not faulting any individual or collection of photos. Why I brought this up (possibly in a more negative tone than required), is that often I'm left wishing that the pictures were better than they are - the owners have interesting machines, and it would nice to see higher quality photos that can accentuate details, markings, and labels. Jeff From ipscone at msdsite.com Sat Jan 11 20:24:00 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: Sharp PC-7221 Configuration Problem In-Reply-To: <32924.64.169.63.74.1042337042.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <1042319377.2243.2.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <3E206020.4541.20CBF7A@localhost> I have two Sharp PC-7221 lunchbox computer and both have "invalid configuration information" error upon booting. And to press "F1 to continue". I press F1 and then it says there is "no boot device available." When I boot from FDD, it boots ok. I figured that the Hard drive just needed to be formatted and FDISKed. So, I run FDISK but it returns that there is no Fixed Drive in system. But they are present.... I can see them... they spins up and the drive is initially accessed upon booting without floppy. That is, the HDD light comes on for about 1 second. Someone suggested that I could remove the internal battery and it would boot up with the default configuration. I tried that but it didn't change anything. Is this just something that can be fixed with the proper configuration? Anyone have the files for the configuration disk? Can you send them to me? Are they available on the internet? Thanks in advance. Mike From avickers at solutionengineers.com Sat Jan 11 20:40:01 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: Shark Update Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030112001424.00b4d3c0@slave> Right. If you don't like tales of endurance, adventure, battle and gore, turn away now. Same thing goes if you don't like happy endings... A trilogy, in four parts: (orig. (c) Douglas Adams) Part 1: I decided that rather than wait for ICPUG to deliver a disk, I'd go ahead and try to make my X1541 cable, which would allow me to use either the 1541 I just got, or the 1541-II I already had to transfer the Mator "discdiag" program over to the PET. Rather than the plain old X1541 (which probably wouldn't work with my "big" PC, I decided on the XE1541, which should work. I'm not going the whole hog & making parallel drives, etc. I can afford the time. So: 5pm, trip to Maplins to get the components. "Sorry guvnor, no diodes in stock". OK - fall back to the plain X1541 then; at least it'll work on my 486. "Oh, and no D25 plugs either". FFS! OK, plan 'B' (made up on the spot) - use a D25 socket (available) & a male-male genderbender (available). Woohoo! That and some cable & a couple of 6-pin DINs (1 spare, 'cos I usually knacker one trying to solder them). Wait 1hr for train home. I *knew* I should have taken the car... Then again, the traffic jam was horrendus, so glad I didn't. Arrived home, found most of my soldering gear, except the tin of excellent tip cleaner/tinner. Nevermind, tip's still clean enough. Apply vice to desk, start soldering 6-pin DIN. Amazingly, I didn't completely wreck it (although some of the pins needed realigning afterwards). *Surely* there's an easier way?? Copious use of multimeter to ensure no shorts. Everything checks out, even with the connector all sealed up. Huzzah! OK, I took special care wiring up the D25 socket, making sure I had the exact right pins, everything. Since the X1541 requires the GND pin connecting across ALL of the data lines (well, that's what the diagram says, I'm not sure if it's optional or not), I improvise a bar using a regular staple & lots of solder. Hook everything up. Re-check all connections with multimeter - everything AOK! All pins connected, no pins shorting out, we're hot to rock! Dig the 486 out of the dim & distant corner it's lurking in. Power up, copy Star Commander across. Plug M-M genderbender into cable, plug into parallel port. Root 1541 out of cupboard, plug in. This is where things start to go wrong.... The power & drive lights come on, but the drive light fails to go out. Uh-oh. Unplug everything, re-check wiring. No problems. Re-connect everything - same behaviour. Download X1541test.exe, load it onto 486, follow bent paperclip instructions (only with a staple). No probs, p/port is compatible. Hmmm.... Finally, I re-test the cable with the genderbender still in place: Doh! It's mirror-imaged all the connections! So, my carefully soldered cable looks just like I'd made the most elementary f**kup imaginable. Grrr. Eat dinner in moody silence. Return to soldering iron. Getting that staple bus-bar out is a real pig. I'm probably lucky I didn't fry the LPT port. Or the 1541 for that matter... Anyway, finally it all works, so I format a disk, copy an image over, and wander upstairs to try it out. Part 2: Things start to go wrong again..... First, I try the disk in an 8050: No joy. So, back downstairs, pick up the 4040, back upstairs. If you know your Commodores, you will know that the 4040 should work. Well, it didn't. Getting a bit worried now, I wander back downstairs & re-check the disk; yep, still readable. Root a 3040 out of the cupboard, add plug. Take 3040 & disk upstairs. Plug 3040 in & switch on; there's a small "snap" noise, and FLAMES! Pull mains plug out in a hurry, but the fire continues; luckily, it's only small, and I can simply blow it out: No opening the window & slinging the drive into the street - phew!. Open 3040 up, it looks like an electrolytic cap has burned out (literally, there is smoke damage above it in the case). Still, that explains why the fuse didn't blow - the power side is still quite alright. So, 3040 down, 8050 no good, 4040 no good. Despairing, I turn to the net, to discover that the 4040 *should* be OK. Worried now that I didn't write the disk in GCR format... However, I re-try the disk, this time in drive 1, and after a couple of false starts it's away & working! Woohoo! Part 3: OK, now the drive is OK and I've got the program loaded, I start up the hard-drive. 25 seconds it takes, from power on to availablilty. Try a diR; get 2 chars then nothing, computer (CBM710) has crashed. Re-boot computer with power switch, try again - same problem. Uh-oh, has the HDD died? I try the only thing I know is different, switch off 4040 & try again (same problem), then physically disconnect 4040 - problem solved. So, the 4040 has an IEEE problem (or maybe a DOS problem, I don't know which). With that little dilemma solved, I re-load the diagnostics program from the 4040, save it to HDD (that works with the 4040 plugged in, for some reason). Unplug 4040, run diags program. Huzzah! Finally, we made it! (wipes sweat from brow). Old computers, eh? You just gotta love 'em. Part 4: I set the "bad sector report" going, then had a peek at the manual because it looks like the 710 has crashed again - however, it turns out it's going to take about 10mins for the HDD to locate all its duff sectors. So that's OK, leave it 10 mins. I'm expecting it to be in bad shape, but actually there are only about 17 reallocations. I can't remember how big a Commodore sector is, but given that there is nearly 82250 blocks of total disk space, that seems like a very low number (again, bear in mind this h/w is approaching 20 years old). I tried a few "random reads" (all reported no errors), and the machine literally shook about the place as the head moved back & forth. Wow.... Try doing that with a little IDE drive! So, that's it really. It looks like the Shark is in swimmingly (sorry) good order, and it does in fact work OK with the 8050; it's just the 4040 which causes it grief. --------------------End-------------------- If you found the above boring, then please don't read it. Thankyou. And now, some questions: 1) Is it actually possible to copy files from one unit (i.e. diskdrive) to another (i.e. Shark)? The COPY command can't (it even says so in the manual), and I guess it's understandable given that most people would have had a dual drive unit, and maybe a tape deck, but little else with their PETs. 2) Does anyone know anything about the "Interpod" IEEE-->Serial thing? I have one of these, and during Part 2 above, I tried using it to (a) connect the 8050 to the X1541 cable, and (b) connect the 1541 to the PET, but neither application worked in any way shape or form. So, do I have a duff Interpod, or does it require some s/w on the computer to operate correctly (if so, I suspect it's a C64 specific thing). I believe it was used to connect a C64 to the Shark hard drive. 3) Does *anyone* make DIN plugs which don't melt if you bring a soldering iron within 5ft of them? 4) Where's my coffee? That's all folks! Now I've verified the Shark is in pretty sound condition, I'll try taking some decent photos of it, inside & out. And yes Jeffrey, I'll try to make sure there's some good hi-res pictures of it :) Although I am a bit short of extra lighting, so we'll have to see what the built-in flash is capable of, I'm afraid. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From allain at panix.com Sat Jan 11 20:56:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: HP 7970 E spool disk drive (fwd) References: Message-ID: <00a301c2b9e6$a7eae140$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > I wouldn't doubt if that 7970 is still at WeirdStuff. > Sellam Ismail THX for mentioning them... I sure miss the visits. Nice webpage for Vintage. http://www.weirdstuff.com/sunnyvale/html/new_store.htm I wish they'd hurry up and sell vintage things over the web. Until then I guess it's eBay** for us poor east-coasters. For the uninitiated, a visit to WeirdStuff is worth at least 1/5 of a $300 plane ticket, and Sunnyvale has plenty more to offer too. John A. ** and MIT starting in April http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~w1af/flea.html http://web.mit.edu/w1gsl/Public/flyer From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Jan 11 20:57:01 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000c01c2b9e6$a62b08d0$513bcd18@D73KSM11> > On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, John Clarke wrote: > > > Anyway, is there some way to find out what the value of my > Compaq is? > > Sure, I'll tell you: $5. > > :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival Nadeau's book gives a range of $20 - $75, but I wouldn't give $20 for the hardware alone. Original documentation and software, on the other hand, is likely much harder to find and would be worth some extra $$$s. It's hard to quantify value if you have all the extras, which are often almost impossible to accumulate. I think most collectors know that documentation is far more difficult to find than machines. I have an IBM 5100, which is somewhat rare, but what is really rare is the full set of documentation I have, including the original sales invoice and factory build sheet. For example, I have a Texas Instruments Portable Professional Computer (actually I have three of them) which in terms of hardware, is not worth much ($15 to $40 according to Nadeau). But, I also have virtually every piece of software and documentation that ever went with it (all in those hideous orange TI boxes), as well as a big box full of development boards of every variety that I got from a retired TI guy that worked on the project in the early 80s. I also have stacks of preliminary production documentation and schematics from the same sorce. Now that's history -- and as they say in the Master Card commercials -- "priceless." By the way, one of my three TIPPCs has an upgraded 286-10 Soyo MB and is IBM compatible (and therefore won't run the bulk of the specialize TI software). Anyone ever see one of these before? -W From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sat Jan 11 21:27:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: Old machine photos In-Reply-To: <1042338109.4151.8.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <01c901c2b9ea$ecac0ee0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> I agree that a lot of the collector sites have pretty poor photos of the machines they are built for. My site is a perfect example. Most of my pictures simply suck. On my oversized project list is to pull out and re-photograph my entire collection. I agree with all of the recommendations I've seen so far. Here's how I've had the most luck (and what I'll do when I get around to taking pictures again): - Use a medium or dark colored matte item as a background. I have an old black bed sheet that I use as well as a large piece of cardboard with a matte black finish. Between the two I'm able to pretty much black out everything but the computer. - Use a tripod and turn off the flash on your digital camera. - Use multiple diffuse lighting sources. If you can't get those big photography lamps and diffusers then just bounce the light from spots or lamps off of a wall or use something else (like a cardboard box) to block the light that would go directly from the source to the photographic subject. The goal is to light the computer well and eliminate glare - especially on screens. - Prop the machine up at a good viewing angle to show off its form. My biggest mistake is that I take too many head-on shots which make most machines look awful. (See my site for proof) I use milk crates and wooden blocks under the sheet to position the machines. - I like ACDSee for photo editing. It's a great tool for cropping, adjusting levels, changing image formats and sizes and generally preparing a picture for the web. I rarely use Photoshop for much anymore. - I try to do multiple angles and inside shots as well as detail pictures of interesting items (such as cards, unusual cables and the like). Erik www.vintage-computer.com (home of hopeless pictures of hopeless computers) -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey H. Ingber Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 6:22 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Old machine photos On Sat, 2003-01-11 at 21:04, Eric Smith wrote: > > Poor photographs of computers are a pet peeve of mine. All of the > > photos I've seen on the web (with rare exception) are generally lousy. > > > > The photos, IMHO, are just as valuable as having the documentation and > > software for any system. It is a useful tool for making comparisons. > > > > Jeff > > That all may be true, but it's not very constructive. How about telling > us what people are doing wrong, and suggestions for improvements? Without pointing out specific examples - 1) The size of the pictures are generally too small, sometimes not much larger than a thumbnail. There should be several sizes available, including very high resolution shots. 2) The pictures are often out of focus, grainly, or have poor lighting. 3) Labels or markings are often impossible to discern. The "pictures", as I refer to them, are those generally seen on classic-computer collection-related web sites. Obviously, there are not too many of us who moonlight as photographers and I'm not faulting any individual or collection of photos. Why I brought this up (possibly in a more negative tone than required), is that often I'm left wishing that the pictures were better than they are - the owners have interesting machines, and it would nice to see higher quality photos that can accentuate details, markings, and labels. Jeff From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Sat Jan 11 21:33:01 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: DOS 3.20 References: Message-ID: <00d601c2b9eb$cfdfa9b0$434a1942@starfury> I believe DOS 3.20 is what I was looking for. It came as original software for a Packard Bell 386/12T (don't remember the specific model name), and I used the accompanying book to teach myself DOS programming -- back in 1991... The system had dual floppies (both sizes), a small hard drive, no sound except for the system speaker, and one of the first mass production .25 dpi monitors. I paid through the nose for the system at the time, but I'd likely give an arm and a leg for that old DOS manual... Cheers! Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 08:55 PM Subject: Re: Old (5.25") PC software > On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Ed Tillman wrote: > > I dunno about these, but would anyone happen to have a copy of DOS 2.x or > > 3.x (2.3 and/or 3.2 maybe) on 3.5 disks, nd with the accompanying user text > > book? Some of the information in those old texts is still applicable, but > > can't be found anywhere... > > There ain't no sech thing as 2.3 > > 2.xx was only available with 3.5" support in specially modified versions > for certain specific brands of machines (usually in version 2.11). Even > the disk format isn't standardized on those. > > 3.20 (internally it thinks that it is three point twenty, NOT two), is the > first version that includes 3.5" support (720K) without special machine > specific modifications. > > 2.11 and 3.31 are only available in versions that were intended for > specific machines. 'Course in most cases, the only thing that is > different is the code in MODE.COM, and sometimes FORMAT. > > If you have a machine with specific peculiarities, 3.31 is the hot setup. > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jan 11 21:53:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: DOS 3.20 In-Reply-To: <00d601c2b9eb$cfdfa9b0$434a1942@starfury> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, Ed Tillman wrote: > I believe DOS 3.20 is what I was looking for. It came as original software > for a Packard Bell 386/12T (don't remember the specific model name), and I > used the accompanying book to teach myself DOS programming -- back in > 1991... The system had dual floppies (both sizes), a small hard drive, no > sound except for the system speaker, and one of the first mass production > .25 dpi monitors. I paid through the nose for the system at the time, but > I'd likely give an arm and a leg for that old DOS manual... I sold a boxful of them at VCF for $1 each. I'll take a look on Wednesday, and see if I can find any more copies. That machine should be able to run anything from 3.20 to 6.22, and might even be able to do Windoze95 (which wouldbe a BAD idea). I'd recommend running DOS 6.2x -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com From spc at conman.org Sat Jan 11 22:00:01 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: Old machine photos In-Reply-To: <01c901c2b9ea$ecac0ee0$6e7ba8c0@piii933> from "Erik S. Klein" at Jan 11, 2003 07:30:16 PM Message-ID: <200301120402.XAA14330@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Erik S. Klein once stated: > > - Use a medium or dark colored matte item as a background. I have an > old black bed sheet that I use as well as a large piece of cardboard > with a matte black finish. Between the two I'm able to pretty much > black out everything but the computer. I would probably recomend a neutral color background---black may be a bit too dark to use effectively. > - Use multiple diffuse lighting sources. If you can't get those big > photography lamps and diffusers then just bounce the light from spots or > lamps off of a wall or use something else (like a cardboard box) to > block the light that would go directly from the source to the > photographic subject. The goal is to light the computer well and > eliminate glare - especially on screens. A large piece of cardboard covered in aluminum foil makes a good reflector, and to reduce glare on monitors you may want to try hairspray. Professional photographers use it to reduce glare on glasses so it might be worth trying on a monitor if you don't think it'll hurt it. > - I like ACDSee for photo editing. It's a great tool for cropping, > adjusting levels, changing image formats and sizes and generally > preparing a picture for the web. I rarely use Photoshop for much > anymore. I use the GIMP under Linux with no problems (although you *may* want to have lots of memory before doing this---at 32M of RAM, my 120MHz Linux system is a bit sluggish 8-) > - I try to do multiple angles and inside shots as well as detail > pictures of interesting items (such as cards, unusual cables and the > like). If it's a digital camera, go wild with the pictures. Take lots of pictures; more than you think you need. Then select the best from the lot. Why not? It's not like you have to pay for developing the pictures. -spc (Go for quantity, then select for quality ... ) From cb at mythtech.net Sat Jan 11 23:30:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: Old machine photos Message-ID: >I didn't know >about the "WB" setting (forgot what it stands for) White Balance >it sets the camera for >different lighting temperatures (indoor, bright sunlight, indirect sunlight, >flast) and that does make a difference (the color in the images above is a >bit off since I didn't know about them with I took the pictures) One thing you can try if you find you change to the correct preset and the color is still off... hold a stark white board or peice of paper in front of the camera (filling the entire image area, but back far enough to allow lighting), then switch to the setting you want to use. In the past (and on higher quality cameras), that is the correct way to set a white balance. However on most of today's consumer grade cameras, they have moved to either an entirely automatic white balance, or one like you seem to have with a few preset options. On some of the preset versions, it does a quick sample when moved to the setting, and adjusts from there. So holding a white image in front of it will help it adjust to a true white (and then, some don't do any sampling or adjusting, and doing this will do nothing at all). -chris From 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com Sat Jan 11 23:35:01 2003 From: 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com (No Junk Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: Old (5.25") PC software Message-ID: <3672-87190@sneakemail.com> Just scanning emails quickly, so I might have missed something, but... I'm up for it, but Australia *just* implmented a new international mail scanning technology (incoming *and* outgoing) and I want to find out if it nukes disks before I send too many. Will sort things out hopefully next week. Chris J. > Gene Ehrich gehrich-at-tampabay.rr.com |CC| wrote: > > I would just love to have all of these old disks and will happily pay > the > postage (cheapest way) and pay immediately with PayPal. > > Gene Ehrich > P.O. Box 3365 > Spring Hill, Florida 34611-3365 > USA > > Please let me know > > At 08:34 AM 1/11/2003 +0800, you wrote: > >Hi All, > > > >I recently salved a whole bunch of original (PC) 5.25" disks for > assorted > >business and education-oriented software. > > > >One product that featured highly and looks like the sort of thing > people > >might still be using is Xilinx's Xact. A huge number of disks -- > looks > >like lots of incremental updates. Some are still sealed in > >plastic. Anyone want? > > > >Other titles of note include: > > > >cc:Mail > >Lotus 123 > >Pro-Cite > >Ventura Publisher > >Project Scheduler 5 > >Quattro > >Persona Logican > >Da Vinci eMail > >Sun PC-NFS > >Ansi-Console > >Softerm PC > >Compaq MS-DOS 3.31 > >R&R Report Writer > > > >Heaps of Microsoft stuff too. And some Nortons stuff I'm keeping. > > > >Some disks have useful things such as serial numbers on them. > > > >Given that I'm in Australia anyone who can convince me they're a > good home > >;) can have them for the cost of postage + a few percent to cope > with > >PayPal fees. > > > >KrisHaven {at} SpamCop {dOt} Net > > > >Chris J. > From cb at mythtech.net Sat Jan 11 23:35:44 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" Message-ID: >I think that is incredibly overly optimistic. The original Compaq >portable was sold in such numbers that literally tens of thousands still >exist in garages and closets all over the country (and perhaps the world). >I run into one nearly everytime I go out looking for old computers. They >are not only not rare, they are incredibly common. I have at least one, I think two... I just used one as a door chock the other day to prop open the fire door exiting from my telco closet to let more light into the room (the light in there has been broken for ages and the landlord refuses to fix it). -chris From jwillis at arielusa.com Sat Jan 11 23:40:00 2003 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: DOS 3.20 Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB726@deathstar.arielnet.com> IBM PC-DOS or Micro$oft MS-DOS? I have the PC-DOS 3.20 manual. -----Original Message----- From: Ed Tillman Sent: Sat 1/11/2003 8:36 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: Subject: DOS 3.20 I believe DOS 3.20 is what I was looking for. It came as original software for a Packard Bell 386/12T (don't remember the specific model name), and I used the accompanying book to teach myself DOS programming -- back in 1991... The system had dual floppies (both sizes), a small hard drive, no sound except for the system speaker, and one of the first mass production .25 dpi monitors. I paid through the nose for the system at the time, but I'd likely give an arm and a leg for that old DOS manual... Cheers! Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 08:55 PM Subject: Re: Old (5.25") PC software > On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Ed Tillman wrote: > > I dunno about these, but would anyone happen to have a copy of DOS 2.x or > > 3.x (2.3 and/or 3.2 maybe) on 3.5 disks, nd with the accompanying user text > > book? Some of the information in those old texts is still applicable, but > > can't be found anywhere... > > There ain't no sech thing as 2.3 > > 2.xx was only available with 3.5" support in specially modified versions > for certain specific brands of machines (usually in version 2.11). Even > the disk format isn't standardized on those. > > 3.20 (internally it thinks that it is three point twenty, NOT two), is the > first version that includes 3.5" support (720K) without special machine > specific modifications. > > 2.11 and 3.31 are only available in versions that were intended for > specific machines. 'Course in most cases, the only thing that is > different is the code in MODE.COM, and sometimes FORMAT. > > If you have a machine with specific peculiarities, 3.31 is the hot setup. > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3313 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030111/d4d2f937/attachment.bin From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Sat Jan 11 23:54:01 2003 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: LCD projection panel-Sharp QA 50 References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030112001424.00b4d3c0@slave> Message-ID: <022901c2b9ff$806336e0$0101a8c0@athlon> Anyone have a manual and/or a remote for one of these things-I want some info. They are an old 640 x 480 monochrome LCD projection panel for use with an OHP. (Must be at least 10 years old and does have a VGA connector so I figure it's 'on topic'!!) Tks Dave B Christchurch, NZ From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jan 11 23:59:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: DOS 3.20 In-Reply-To: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB726@deathstar.arielnet.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, John Willis wrote: > IBM PC-DOS or Micro$oft MS-DOS? I have the PC-DOS 3.20 manual. The only difference that I found between them (except for certain highly customized OEM MS-DOS versions) was DRIVPARM. It is present in both, but is not documented in PC-DOS. It is incompatible with the IBM BIOS. (DRIVPARM worked with both PC-DOS and MS-DOS with three different generic clones; DRIVPARM would not work with either MS-DOS nor PC-DOS on real IBM AT and PS/2 (model 50?)) Some OEMs included the "technical reference manual" as appendix to their MS-DOS manual. IBM sold it as a separate book after 2.00. From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Sun Jan 12 00:44:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: DOS 3.20 Message-ID: I'm looking for the MS-DOS version, (preferably with the disks intact, but not essential...). It was paperback, nearly 2" thick, had a two-tone cover (white over gray), and was somewhere over 300 pages in length. It had all the instructions in the world for using a DOS system - from setting up the autoexec/config, to working in the AT console (e.g.: modem command strings), to all the various switches for all the internal and external DOS commands, to programming in GWBasic. I really miss my book (I lost it in a house fire a week before 9/11...) That info is nearly murder to come by now days, and yet there are still legacy systems out there in everyday business use. That's one of the reasons I want the book. The other is that I want to setup a current day system (AMD 1.6Ghz or higher) as a straight DOS machine for experimentation, games and taking others back through history. DOS 6.22 would actually work, but I really liked the older DOS better, and the "newer" versions' texts weren't quite so insightful. Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, TX; USA Phone (210) 592-3110, Fax (210) 592-2048 edward.tillman@valero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of "John > Willis" > Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 11:43 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: DOS 3.20 > > IBM PC-DOS or Micro$oft MS-DOS? I have the PC-DOS 3.20 manual. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ed Tillman > Sent: Sat 1/11/2003 8:36 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Cc: > Subject: DOS 3.20 > > I believe DOS 3.20 is what I was looking for. It came as original > software > for a Packard Bell 386/12T (don't remember the specific model name), and > I > used the accompanying book to teach myself DOS programming -- back in > 1991... The system had dual floppies (both sizes), a small hard drive, > no > sound except for the system speaker, and one of the first mass > production > .25 dpi monitors. I paid through the nose for the system at the time, > but > I'd likely give an arm and a leg for that old DOS manual... > > Cheers! > > Ed > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > To: > Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 08:55 PM > Subject: Re: Old (5.25") PC software > > > > On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Ed Tillman wrote: > > > I dunno about these, but would anyone happen to have a copy of DOS > 2.x > or > > > 3.x (2.3 and/or 3.2 maybe) on 3.5 disks, nd with the accompanying > user > text > > > book? Some of the information in those old texts is still > applicable, > but > > > can't be found anywhere... > > > > There ain't no sech thing as 2.3 > > > > 2.xx was only available with 3.5" support in specially modified > versions > > for certain specific brands of machines (usually in version 2.11). > Even > > the disk format isn't standardized on those. > > > > 3.20 (internally it thinks that it is three point twenty, NOT two), is > the > > first version that includes 3.5" support (720K) without special > machine > > specific modifications. > > > > 2.11 and 3.31 are only available in versions that were intended for > > specific machines. 'Course in most cases, the only thing that is > > different is the code in MODE.COM, and sometimes FORMAT. > > > > If you have a machine with specific peculiarities, 3.31 is the hot > setup. > > > > > > > > > > - C.DTF << File: C.DTF >> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 4501 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030112/5504d4d9/attachment.bin From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Sun Jan 12 00:46:34 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: DOS 3.20 Message-ID: Any ideas where to find one now though? Cheers! Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, TX; USA Phone (210) 592-3110, Fax (210) 592-2048 edward.tillman@valero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of "Fred Cisin > (XenoSoft)" > Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 12:02 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: DOS 3.20 > > On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, John Willis wrote: > > IBM PC-DOS or Micro$oft MS-DOS? I have the PC-DOS 3.20 manual. > > The only difference that I found between them (except for certain highly > customized OEM MS-DOS versions) was DRIVPARM. It is present in both, but > is not documented in PC-DOS. It is incompatible with the IBM BIOS. > > (DRIVPARM worked with both PC-DOS and MS-DOS with three different generic > clones; DRIVPARM would not work with either MS-DOS nor PC-DOS on real IBM > AT and PS/2 (model 50?)) > > > Some OEMs included the "technical reference manual" as appendix to their > MS-DOS manual. IBM sold it as a separate book after 2.00. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3057 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030112/9717a229/attachment.bin From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jan 12 00:57:01 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: Tektronics DAS 9000 Message-ID: What is it? Looks like a portable terminal of some kind. It is for sale at what I think is a tourist price and the dealer won't even pull it off the shelf till he sees money. Do I want it? ;) Doc From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sun Jan 12 01:11:01 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay Message-ID: <01ee01c2ba0a$28f9bd10$6e7ba8c0@piii933> All I have to say is WOW! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2300403973 Note: I am not affiliated with this auction in any way and I'm precluded from bidding because my wife would kill me. Erik From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jan 12 01:31:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: IBM AT (5170) available Message-ID: I don't know where it is. Please ask the original sender. Reply-to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 07:52:30 -0600 From: Shawn Swango Subject: IBM I have an old IBM 5170 Personal Computer AT with an IBM 5151 Personal Computer Display. Worth anything? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mbg at TheWorld.com Sun Jan 12 01:36:01 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay Message-ID: <200301120738.CAA102529995@shell.TheWorld.com> >All I have to say is WOW! That was my reaction as well. If I weren't unemployed at this time and if I had someplace to put it, I might try for it. I think my partner would kill me, though... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | | | | "this space | (s/ at /@/) | | unavoidably left blank" | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jan 12 01:45:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:16 2005 Subject: CDC Cyber mainframe emulation Message-ID: FYI. See below... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 14:04:24 +0800 From: Tom Hunter To: vcf@vintage.org, archive@vintage.org Cc: cgd@theworld.com Subject: CDC Cyber mainframe emulation Hi, I have written a free emulator for a CDC Cyber mainframe and a set of typical peripherals. The software is written in plain C and currently runs on Win98/NT and various UNIX platforms. I have released both source and binary. If you think this is of interest, please visit my web site where you can download a ZIP archive of the sources, a Win32 binary and the Chippewa OS (handcoded in octal by Seymour Cray). My web site is: http://www.users.bigpond.com/tom-hunter If you have any CDC Cyber related software tapes, could you please send me a list of what you have. Top on my wanted list would be SMM sources matching and binaries. SMM is a system diagnostic which would help finding any remaining problems in the emulation. Best regards from Australia Tom Hunter -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sun Jan 12 02:02:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: Integrated Computer Systems Standard Prototype Microcomputer In-Reply-To: <019d01c2b98d$8c59ae10$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, Erik S. Klein wrote: > I've just come into possession of an "Integrated Computer Systems > Standard Prototype Microcomputer." The system, as I received it, > consists of three parts: a power supply, a single board computer/trainer > similar to a Kim-1 and an "interfacing" board. Erik, I've got one of these but it comes in a suitcase configuration. I believe they were used as trainers for a correspondance course on computer technology from the 1980s. I'll see if I have manuals for mine. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 12 02:57:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: DEC PDP-8 Paper Tapes? What are these? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030112085946.68823.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Dave wrote: > I have some of the paper tapes too with Digital Equipment Corp on them. > Mine also have various tests on them and some say Basic. However mine > are not in spools--mine are folded over on top of each other like 8 > inches long before being folded back on itself and then they are stored > in a fancy blue case where you slide each folded stack into. Fan-folded tape was what was used with "high speed" readers like the PC04 and PC05. I have some PDP-8/i and PDP-8/e tapes like that. Spooled tape was more common with low-speed readers, like the one on the side of an ASR-33. > I am trying to figure out if these are any good to anybody... Almost certainly. With part numbers (if any are present), we could probably determine if copies were already available online or not. In any case, they are useful to someone who has a paper tape reader (fan-fold tape can be read by an ASR-33 or a PC04, but I wouldn't want to put spooled tape in a PC04... probably would snarl). > ... or whether they are only good on one specific system. Depending on exactly what you have, chances are that they are good for one _family_ of computers (some PDP-8 stuff works for every thing (FOCAL, assemblers, other utilities), some stuff is model-specific (diagnostics, some utilities)). Need more info before we could make a determination. > Can someone help me out here. Yes. Can you give us a listing of what's typed/written on the first fold? Putting several stacks in a flatbed scanner and making the picture available on a web page somewhere might be equally useful... folks could comment on what they recognize. > I am pretty sure they are from a large DEC computer used in a > university in the 1960s and 1970s becuase the > dates on them are from 1965 to 1978. There were no PDP-11s in 1965, and most of the models of stuff that _were_ available in 1965 were not getting new software from DEC in 1978. It's possible you have tapes from several types of machine mixed togethe. It's also possible you have, say, PDP-8 tapes, from a wide range of years (the PDP-8 was available in one form or another from 1965 well past 1978). Descriptions or pictures would be most helpful -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 12 03:08:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: <01ee01c2ba0a$28f9bd10$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: <20030112091113.268.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Erik S. Klein" wrote: > All I have to say is WOW! > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2300403973 Agreed... Wow! I wouldn't mind bidding on it, but I suspect that others here have deeper pockets than I. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Jan 12 03:23:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: Tektronics DAS 9000 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33292.64.169.63.74.1042363565.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > What is it? Looks like a portable terminal of some kind. It is for > sale at what I think is a tourist price and the dealer won't even pull > it off the shelf till he sees money. It's an old logic analyzer. Not worth much these days; I've seen some given away and others thrown away because no one would take them. I used one from 1984-1986, and wasn't very happy with it. Late-model Tek logic analyzers, on the other hand, are quite nice. Aside from the fact that they run Windows. I get a blue screen occasionally. Agilent analyzers run HP-UX, which is rock-solid, and you can use X to completely control it from your desktop system or even a laptop [*]. I wonder what OS Agilent will use on their future analyzers? They use Windows on their Infinium brand scopes, so maybe they'll start using that in their analyzers as well. :-( Eric [*] Yes, you could probably install VNC on the Tek to do similar things, but it would probably void the warranty. For all the complaints people have made about X over the years, at least it was designed for network use from the outset. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 12 03:34:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: Shark Update In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030112001424.00b4d3c0@slave> Message-ID: <20030112093743.8435.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Adrian Vickers wrote: > Right. If you don't like tales of endurance, adventure, battle and gore, > turn away now. Same thing goes if you don't like happy endings... Quite the odyssey. > And now, some questions: > > 1) Is it actually possible to copy files from one unit (i.e. diskdrive) > to another (i.e. Shark)? The COPY command can't (it even says so in the > manual), and I guess it's understandable given that most people would > have had a dual drive unit, and maybe a tape deck, but little else > with their PETs. All the DOS commands with BASIC 4.0 (et al.) do is to turn your command line args into IEEE-488 messages to tell the drive what to do to itself. On _any_ PET (including BASIC 4.0), you can open the command channel and issue commands directly to the drive with print# statements. I don't remember the syntax of the COPY command right off the top of my head, but even on a 3032, you could do this... OPEN 15,8,15 PRINT#15,"C0:newfile=1:oldfile" CLOSE15 (forgive me if the COPY syntax isn't spot on) ... and that will do the same job that a COPY command would have done, as far as the drive is concerned. The reason for mentioning that is, unlike most systems, Commodore drives are all intellegent. The PET doesn't move each byte of the file from disk to disk, it gives the file names to the drive and the *drive* moves each byte, one by one. Since the CPU isn't involved, it's a non-trivial task to move files from one device to another. Now... as a direct result of that, there are file copy programs available. It's also possible to write a short one in BASIC. In any case, though, you will need an external program to do it. > 2) Does anyone know anything about the "Interpod" IEEE-->Serial thing? Nope. > (if so, I suspect it's a C64 specific thing). I believe it was used to > connect a C64 to the Shark hard drive. Probably. I don't know of a commercial product that let you put IEC peripherals on a PET, but people _did_ want to put IEEE-488 devices on a C-64. > 3) Does *anyone* make DIN plugs which don't melt if you bring a soldering > iron within 5ft of them? It's common to use a DIN receptacle to keep the pins from wandering during soldering. Also, depending on the iron you are using, you are possibly having tool-induced problems. If your soldering iron originally had a price under $100 USD, I'd be suspicious. > 4) Where's my coffee? http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/cgi-bin/rfc/rfc2324.html ? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jan 12 03:42:01 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: Shark Update In-Reply-To: Adrian Vickers "Shark Update" (Jan 12, 2:43) References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030112001424.00b4d3c0@slave> Message-ID: <10301120945.ZM2844@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 12, 2:43, Adrian Vickers wrote: > If you found the above boring, then please don't read it. Thankyou. :-) > And now, some questions: > > 1) Is it actually possible to copy files from one unit (i.e. diskdrive) to > another (i.e. Shark)? The COPY command can't (it even says so in the > manual), and I guess it's understandable given that most people would have > had a dual drive unit, and maybe a tape deck, but little else with their PETs. I thought I'd done that, but possibly with some special program in the PET. > 2) Does anyone know anything about the "Interpod" IEEE-->Serial thing? I Dunno, sorry. > 3) Does *anyone* make DIN plugs which don't melt if you bring a soldering > iron within 5ft of them? A useful trick is to use a potato. First, strip and tin the wires, and trim to length (short). Stick the miniDIN in the potato, re-tin the pins if it looks like solder might not stick to them instantly. Apply the wires, one at a time, with just a touch of the soldering iron, using the solder already on the pins and wires to make the joint. The potato makes a good heatsink. If you don't have a potato, try a crisp apple, or a miniDIN socket (which will at least prevent the pins becoming seriously mis-aligned). > 4) Where's my coffee? In the cupboard above percolator, ready for the next time you visit, of course. > That's all folks! Now I've verified the Shark is in pretty sound condition, > I'll try taking some decent photos of it, inside & out. Sounds like a bit of a marathon! Well done for persevering, though. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 12 03:52:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: DC003 In-Reply-To: <3E205B46.9000202@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <20030112095505.74156.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Michael Davidson wrote: > I tried to track down a source for the DC003 a couple of years > ago and came up with nothing. There are/were a few web sites which > listed the DC003 but nobody really seemed to have any. As I mentioned, I think I have a couple as spares... I used to make and sell Qbus, Unibus and VAXBI boards. You won't find anything about them on the web because I've never put up a web page on them. I got them when my former employer went out of business and I bought the test fixtures and spares. We got them direct from DEC. We used to buy entire Qbus logic sets and we didn't use all of them (our board had a 68000 and 512K of RAM onboard, so we didn't use the DEC method of handling word count, etc., for DMA. I know we used DC005s on the BDAL lines, but without going home and checking, I can't say from here exactly which parts we did use and which ones just got stuck in foam and put in a box). > Much as I hate to suggest this, if you *really* need a DC003 (to > repair a board, for example) about your only option is to remove > one from another board. Oy! It's true that there is probably no ready supply, but has anyone checked 1-800-DIGITAL (or whatever HP/Compaq uses for legacy parts ordering)? No guarantees, but they have had lots of stuff in the past that could only be located by a precise part-number request. > If memory serves, a DLV11J 4 port async serial interface would be > a good place to look since they are not particularly hard to find > and I *think* (sorry, I don't have one I can look at right now) > they have 4 DC003 chips on them. Probably not 4 x DC003. Probably 4 x DC005. Probably 1 x DC003. > Be aware that removing chips that are soldered to an existing board > without damaging them will almost certainly involve at least one of > the following: > > - access to and expertise in using professional desoldering equipment > - destroying the board Destroying the board is the easiest way to ensure the chip extracts intact. It's tough to get the power pins free from a multi-layer board (I've done it, but it sucks compared with being able to sacrifice either the chip or the board). In the old days, there were companies like ESS that did depot repair. If the "Computer Hotline" still lists DEC repair companies, that would be a place to start. I doubt you would find much on them on the web. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Jan 12 04:19:00 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: C-64 games (was Re: Phonemark "Quick Data Drive" - info?, also WTD Commodore 15xx) In-Reply-To: <20030108182013.73823.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200301081331.IAA09075@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030111202329.00a32560@pop-server.socal.rr.com> >wrote kiddie software. I've never seen a copy of our stuff on >the 'net. *sniff* I did a web search of some of our titles >once and found my discussion of them on classiccmp and *one* >other reference - in a resume from our head programmer. I've had fair results in tracking down some of the original programmers on some mac products and getting a last unreleased version etc. For myself, I "think" I still have every line of code I ever wrote at least in some format. From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sun Jan 12 06:25:01 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: LCD projection panel-Sharp QA 50 References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030112001424.00b4d3c0@slave> <022901c2b9ff$806336e0$0101a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <3E215F69.1020200@gifford.co.uk> Dave Brown wrote: > Anyone have a manual and/or a remote for one of these things-I want > some info. I worked for London Software Studio in 1988 when Sharp UK asked us to write a presentation graphics package for the QA-25. > They are an old 640 x 480 monochrome LCD projection panel for use > with an OHP. I think the QA-50 is the newer, VGA-compatible model. > (Must be at least 10 years old and does have a VGA connector > so I figure it's 'on topic'!!) Oh, yes! Introduced in 1988, leaving Sharp with a warehouse full of QA-25s (CGA-only) that they couldn't sell. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sun Jan 12 06:50:01 2003 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: Old machine photos In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 11 Jan 2003 23:02:44 EST." <200301120402.XAA14330@conman.org> Message-ID: <200301120929.JAA27096@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" said: > It was thus said that the Great Erik S. Klein once stated: > > > > - Use a medium or dark colored matte item as a background. I have an > > old black bed sheet that I use as well as a large piece of cardboard > > with a matte black finish. Between the two I'm able to pretty much > > black out everything but the computer. > > I would probably recomend a neutral color background---black may be a bit > too dark to use effectively. > Also a black background may cause the auto exposure system to over expose slightly. While you can correct this with software you may lose detail in the lighter areas. A white background may cause the opposite - loss of detail in the shadows. > > - Use multiple diffuse lighting sources. If you can't get those big > > photography lamps and diffusers then just bounce the light from spots or > > lamps off of a wall or use something else (like a cardboard box) to > > block the light that would go directly from the source to the > > photographic subject. The goal is to light the computer well and > > eliminate glare - especially on screens. > > A large piece of cardboard covered in aluminum foil makes a good > reflector, and to reduce glare on monitors you may want to try hairspray. > Professional photographers use it to reduce glare on glasses so it might be > worth trying on a monitor if you don't think it'll hurt it. > Keep the lights well off the camera axis and glare shouldnt be too much of a problem. I use a polarizing filter to cut glare and reflections, but not many digital cameras are threaded for filters. > > -spc (Go for quantity, then select for quality ... ) > That's how many professional photographers made their reputation :-) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jan 12 07:31:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: Config info on HP1000 memory? References: Message-ID: <3E216FC0.5010302@tiac.net> Yep, memory needs to be configured for a linear address space starting at zero. Will Jennings wrote: > Just a quick HP-1000 memory question while we're all discussing it... > I have a single 12747H board in my 2113E.. is it correct to jumper it > for 0-64K? That would be my guess, as it is the only memory present.. > I'm thinking the fact that it was jumpered as 960K-1024K may have > contributed to my machine's failure to work, heh. > > Will J > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > From menadeau at attbi.com Sun Jan 12 08:10:01 2003 From: menadeau at attbi.com (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? References: Message-ID: <009a01c2ba44$41d955e0$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> The way the collector book business works, you keep a title in stock as long as you can. When you run out, you print more. This isn't like the computer book business where they have to make their money in 6 months or the title is obsolete. My contract, BTW, says that I have to update the book every 2 or 3 years. --Mike Michael Nadeau Editor/Publisher Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource www.classictechpub.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 12:28 PM Subject: Re: Help with pricing on vintage computers? > On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, Eric Chomko wrote: > > > Right and the book is now out of stock! > > Out of stock only from my website. The book is available as a special > order item on Amazon: > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0764316001/qid=1042219704/sr=8 -1/ref=sr_8_1/103-0020096-5964664?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 > > If there is enough demand then I would imagine Schiffer might do a > re-print, but it would have to be a LOT of demand probably. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jan 12 09:40:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: <20030112091113.268.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> References: <01ee01c2ba0a$28f9bd10$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: >--- "Erik S. Klein" wrote: >> All I have to say is WOW! >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2300403973 > >Agreed... Wow! I wouldn't mind bidding on it, but I suspect that >others here have deeper pockets than I. > >-ethan And how! Not only do the deeper pockets scare me, but the cost of shipping, and storage :^) Also worth checking out is the website on it that he links http://www.agelesswings.com/PDP12/HOME.HTML Let's just say I'm thankful that he's not listing the documentation seperatly, as I'd be very tempted to go for a bunch of it! Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jan 12 11:18:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: Cirris Signature 1000 cable tester Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030112122637.4c979fec@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I recently picked up a Cirris Signature 1000 cable tester and I'm looking for any adapter cards for it. (See for pictures.) Does anyone have any that they're willing to sell or trade? I have some adapter cards that fit the T&B CableScan model JB 100 and model 128 cable testers that I'll swap for ones for the Cirris tester. See for a picture of what these look like. Joe From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 12 11:22:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030112172514.58561.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >--- "Erik S. Klein" wrote: > >> All I have to say is WOW! > >> > >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2300403973 > > > >Agreed... Wow! I wouldn't mind bidding on it, but I suspect that > >others here have deeper pockets than I. > > > >-ethan > > And how! Not only do the deeper pockets scare me, but the cost of > shipping, and storage :^) Well... shipping isn't too bad for me - I can make it to Rochester without _too_ much effort (go to Cleveland and turn right), but I'm sure that it's way out of the way for most of the readers here. Storage? I'd consider putting my bed in storage and sleeping on the couch! I'll be following this auction to see where the price (and the computer) ends up, but unless I'm employed by the end of the week (hah!), I doubt I'll even make a token bid. I've always wanted one (my first DEC computer was a PDP-8/L I picked up over 20 years ago)... well... always as in "since I first heard of it" Someone is going to be a very happy camper. Wonder where the reserve is. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From JOHNSOY at aol.com Sun Jan 12 11:36:00 2003 From: JOHNSOY at aol.com (JOHNSOY@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" Message-ID: <160.19f7a540.2b530236@aol.com> Please remove my name off of this list. YVONNE Y -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030112/eed9e377/attachment.html From foo at siconic.com Sun Jan 12 11:41:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: <24.34432f64.2b520dbd@aol.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Jan 2003 JOHNSOY@aol.com wrote: > Please remove me from your mailing lists. I am not interested in receiving > 200 emails aday. I know nothing about old computers. I just bought one > because it was in good shape and I was interested in its value. I know now so > please remove Johnsoy@aol.com from this your club. PLEASE. You should've known the job was dangerous when you took it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sun Jan 12 11:45:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: <20030112172514.58561.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2300403973 > Well... shipping isn't too bad for me - I can make it to Rochester > without _too_ much effort (go to Cleveland and turn right), but I'm > sure that it's way out of the way for most of the readers here. > > Storage? I'd consider putting my bed in storage and sleeping on the > couch! I'll be following this auction to see where the price (and the > computer) ends up, but unless I'm employed by the end of the week > (hah!), I doubt I'll even make a token bid. > > I've always wanted one (my first DEC computer was a PDP-8/L I picked > up over 20 years ago)... well... always as in "since I first heard of > it" > > Someone is going to be a very happy camper. Wonder where the reserve > is. It looks like Al Kossow is the high bidder now, and he surpased the reserve. I /was/ really tempted to bid on this, but apart from the storage and shipping considerations, I don't want to bid against Al. He's done too much good for the classic computing community as a whole with his efforts to scan old documentation and get it online. There are a /lot/ of docs and software being auctioned with this system; I really hope it ends up in the hands of someone who'll do the right thing with all of it. -brian. From foo at siconic.com Sun Jan 12 11:49:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: <000c01c2b9e6$a62b08d0$513bcd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > It's hard to quantify value if you have all the extras, which are often > almost impossible to accumulate. I think most collectors know that You're right, and that's where an appraisal would be warranted. The values I quote are always based on the hardware alone in decent condition. Whenever someone askes me the question, "How much is this worth?", I always add the caveat that it would be worth more with documentation, software, etc. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 12 11:51:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030112175406.98281.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Brian Chase wrote: > On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2300403973 > It looks like Al Kossow is the high bidder now, and he surpased the > reserve. I /was/ really tempted to bid on this, but apart from the > storage and shipping considerations, I don't want to bid against Al. > He's done too much good for the classic computing community as a whole > with his efforts to scan old documentation and get it online. Agreed, on both points. Good luck, Al. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From foo at siconic.com Sun Jan 12 11:54:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: DOS 3.20 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Tillman, Edward wrote: > Any ideas where to find one now though? Try a local thrift store. If you don't find the manual you're looking for, you may just find a good book on MS-DOS that has similar information. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jan 12 12:07:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: References: <20030112172514.58561.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >It looks like Al Kossow is the high bidder now, and he surpased the This is one system I *REALLY* hope he gets! I want to see scan's of some of those manuals :^) Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jan 12 12:08:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: Tektronics DAS 9000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030112131620.0f4f9280@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Do you mean DAS 9100? If so, it's a modular mainframe that can be used to house a wide variety of cards. I know they make several different logic analyzer cards and several different pattern generator cards for it and I think they make other cards but I'm not familar with the others. Some of the 9100s have a color screen and are quite nice. Depending on the cards, it might be a VERY usefull item. I THINK I have the Tek catalog for the 9100. Post the card numbers and I'll try to look them up. The numbers are usually printed on the back of the chassis. The presense of the appropriate cables should be a major factor in weather you should buy it or not. Like a lot of test equipment, the cables can cost more than the unit is worth. If there are no cables I wouldn't give more than $5 to $10 for it and then only if I needed it for something. Beware, the 9100s are big and heavy! Due to their size and weight these usually go cheap on E-bay so don't pay more than $50 to $100 for it INCLUDING the cables. Joe At 12:59 AM 1/12/03 -0600, you wrote: > What is it? Looks like a portable terminal of some kind. It is for >sale at what I think is a tourist price and the dealer won't even pull >it off the shelf till he sees money. > Do I want it? ;) > > > Doc > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jan 12 12:08:19 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: DOS 3.20 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030112131711.4c0fce32@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:55 AM 1/12/03 -0800, you wrote: >On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Tillman, Edward wrote: > >> Any ideas where to find one now though? > >Try a local thrift store. If you don't find the manual you're looking >for, you may just find a good book on MS-DOS that has similar information. > >Sellam Ismail Or try the local library. Joe From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Jan 12 12:22:01 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay References: <20030112175406.98281.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <021401c2ba68$1851e2e0$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 12:54 PM Subject: Re: PDP-12 on eBay > > --- Brian Chase wrote: > > On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > > > >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2300403973 > > > It looks like Al Kossow is the high bidder now, and he surpased the > > reserve. I /was/ really tempted to bid on this, but apart from the > > storage and shipping considerations, I don't want to bid against Al. > > He's done too much good for the classic computing community as a whole > > with his efforts to scan old documentation and get it online. > > Agreed, on both points. Good luck, Al. I haven't a prayer of affording it, let alone talking the wife into letting me keep it, but I do think that a copy of that CD would be neat to see. > > -ethan Bob From jingber at ix.netcom.com Sun Jan 12 12:23:00 2003 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: DOS 3.20 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1042395939.4174.19.camel@supermicro> On Sun, 2003-01-12 at 12:55, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Tillman, Edward wrote: > > > Any ideas where to find one now though? Right here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=2087803161 Jeff > > Try a local thrift store. If you don't find the manual you're looking > for, you may just find a good book on MS-DOS that has similar information. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Sun Jan 12 13:26:00 2003 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: GRiDCase 3 battery question. Message-ID: <20030112192906.0E8FD1B389@www.fastmail.fm> Does anyone know what model battery the GRiDCase 3 uses? -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://fastmail.fm - I mean, what is it about a decent email service? From dmabry at mich.com Sun Jan 12 13:48:00 2003 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: GRiDCase 3 battery question. References: <20030112192906.0E8FD1B389@www.fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <3E21C6F8.8010303@mich.com> It is proprietary to the GRiDCase series. Looks to have sub-C cells inside I think, but it is a custom pack. Are you asking what the GRiD model number for the pack is? If so I can probably dig that up for you. Let me know. David Vohs wrote: > Does anyone know what model battery the GRiDCase 3 uses? -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From anheier at owt.com Sun Jan 12 14:51:00 2003 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm & Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: Silent 700 terminal manual-trade/sale Message-ID: I have a silent 700 electronic data terminals model 733 ASR/KSR operation instruction manual (1975) for trade or sale. It's in good shape Thanks Norm From anheier at owt.com Sun Jan 12 14:56:01 2003 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm & Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: More DEC board for trade/sale Message-ID: Hi, I have a bunch of DEC boards that need a good home. I don't know the functionality of these DEC boards. They appear to be in good shape. The description info is what I got of the internet. Let me know if any of these are interesting and we will go from there. I am mostly interested in trading for old microprocessors for my collection. Regards, Norm Here's my DEC board list. MODULE OPTION BUS DESCRIPTION M7095 KD11-Z U 11/44 control module M7096 KD11-Z U 11/44 multifunction module M7097 KK11-B U 11/44 4-Kword cache module M7098 KD11-Z U 11/44 UNIBUS interface M8192 KDJ11-AA Q LSI-11/73 CPU, 8-Kbyte cache, not FPJ11-AA (The DEC cpu chip not supplied with this board). M7900 RK611 U RK06/07 Unibus interface, hex M7901 RK611 U RK06/07 register module, hex M7902 RK611 U RK06/07 control module, hex M7903 RK611 U RK06/07 data module, hex M7904 RK611 U RK06/07 drive interface module, hex M7651 DRV1W-S Q General-Purpose DMA Interface? M7255 RK11-D U RK05 disk control module M7256 RK11-D U RK05 registers module (data path) M7257 RK11-D U RK05 bus control module M8200-YA DMC11-R U 1-line sync DDCMP microprocessor with 1K control/ ROM (point-to-point, used with M8201). M8201 DMC11 U 1-line sync DDCMP DMA, EIA & V35 line board ---end---- From menadeau at attbi.com Sun Jan 12 14:57:00 2003 From: menadeau at attbi.com (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: MCM Model 700 sought... References: <20030111021019.24653.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00f501c2ba7d$306997a0$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> If for any reason you need to reach me during the day tomorrow, Evan, my work number is 781-751-8715. --Mike Michael Nadeau Editor/Publisher Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource www.classictechpub.com ----- Original Message ----- From menadeau at attbi.com Sun Jan 12 15:02:00 2003 From: menadeau at attbi.com (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: MCM Model 700 sought... References: <20030111021019.24653.qmail@web14001.mail.yahoo.com> <00f501c2ba7d$306997a0$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> Message-ID: <00fb01c2ba7d$f80d6160$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> Sorry--that was meant to be off-list. Michael Nadeau Editor/Publisher Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource www.classictechpub.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Nadeau" To: Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 3:57 PM Subject: Re: MCM Model 700 sought... > > --Mike > > > > Michael Nadeau > Editor/Publisher > Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource > www.classictechpub.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From JOHNSOY at aol.com Sun Jan 12 15:20:01 2003 From: JOHNSOY at aol.com (JOHNSOY@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" Message-ID: Look, Just tell me how to remove my name. Please. I can never give any information or help anyone. I am older and not interested. I have poor vision and to delete so many emails is more than I can deal with. Someone help me get unsubscribed...Please YVONNE Y -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030112/f2d7eb4f/attachment.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 12 15:27:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: Shark Update In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030112001424.00b4d3c0@slave> from "Adrian Vickers" at Jan 12, 3 02:43:17 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4112 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030112/27e28c79/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 12 15:27:38 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: <01ee01c2ba0a$28f9bd10$6e7ba8c0@piii933> from "Erik S. Klein" at Jan 11, 3 11:13:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 521 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030112/725eef9c/attachment.ksh From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Jan 12 15:28:11 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I sent this to you privately, but you aparently missed it: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 13:34:22 -0500 (EST) From: Patrick Finnegan To: JOHNSOY@aol.com Subject: Re: An original Compaq "portable" You need to send email to "cctalk-request@classiccmp.org" with a subject of "unsubscribe" (without the quotes) in order to unsubscribe. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu On Sun, 12 Jan 2003 JOHNSOY@aol.com wrote: > Look, > Just tell me how to remove my name. Please. I can never give any information > or help anyone. I am older and not interested. I have poor vision and to > delete so many emails is more than I can deal with. Someone help me get > unsubscribed...Please > > YVONNE > Y > From computermuseum at pandora.be Sun Jan 12 15:30:00 2003 From: computermuseum at pandora.be (Computermuseum) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yvonne, Try to send a e-mail with in the subject: unsubscribe nothing else in this mail... so no comments in the message self... and you are unsubscribed... Michel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens JOHNSOY@aol.com Verzonden: zondag 12 januari 2003 22:24 Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org Onderwerp: Re: An original Compaq "portable" Look, Just tell me how to remove my name. Please. I can never give any information or help anyone. I am older and not interested. I have poor vision and to delete so many emails is more than I can deal with. Someone help me get unsubscribed...Please YVONNE Y -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030112/7d1c9086/attachment.html From JOHNSOY at aol.com Sun Jan 12 15:53:01 2003 From: JOHNSOY at aol.com (JOHNSOY@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" Message-ID: Thank you so much. I will try. Good luck in your hobby. YVONNE Y -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030112/e178e2b9/attachment.html From avickers at solutionengineers.com Sun Jan 12 16:54:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: Shark Update In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030112001424.00b4d3c0@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030112224347.00b5d930@slave> At 21:16 12/01/2003, you wrote: > > Part 1: > >[...] > > > > > So: 5pm, trip to Maplins to get the components. "Sorry guvnor, no > diodes in > > stock". OK - fall back to the plain X1541 then; at least it'll work on my > >That figures... Maplin rarely have useful components in stock in the >shops any more. They were out of stock of 10k resistors one time I needed >them. They seem to have really gone downhill in the last few years; I suspect the passing of Tandy has something to do with this - why should they care, there is no national competition. :( > > again, the traffic jam was horrendus, so glad I didn't. Arrived home, > found > > most of my soldering gear, except the tin of excellent tip cleaner/tinner. > >I am trying to work out why your soldering iron was not on your bench >where it should have been. Unless you had taken it somewhere for a field >repair, of course. Sad to say, I don't do anything like enough electronic assembly/disassembly. This is only the second time I've used the iron since I moved here over a year ago. Plus the fact that anything which could be described as a bench is currently fully occupied with computers and/or peripherals of some description... I still haven't fixed up that 8032 yet (it lurks in the cupboard awaiting my attention), and I've got a project 3032 as well now - this is the one which started up stuck in the monitor routine the other day, but when I tried it again this morning the screen is just blank. I know the video side is OK, as if you let the tube warm up, then power cycle it, you get the garbage characters for a second or so, then it clears to blank. I've re-seated all of the smaller chips to no avail; will try the big chips tomorrow, after that it's a crash-course in microelectronic diagnosis. Indefinitely postponed, knowing me. > > Nevermind, tip's still clean enough. Apply vice to desk, start soldering > > 6-pin DIN. Amazingly, I didn't completely wreck it (although some of the > > pins needed realigning afterwards). *Surely* there's an easier way?? > >Sticking the pin-bit into a 6 pin DIN socket helps a little. Using a good >soldering iron also helps. But I agree, DIN plugs are painful to wire, >and mini-DIN plugs even more so. Hmmm. I actually had less trouble with this one than I've had in the past, possibly because the solder actually stuck to the pins this time. Mostly the pins seem to gather crud like there's no tomorrow, then the solder won't grip, and you end up melting a pin right through the plastic. Grr. I mean, all they have to do is make the plastic bit out of bakalite - problem solved. > > > > First, I try the disk in an 8050: No joy. So, back downstairs, pick up the > >One of the most stupid design decisions in the CBM drives was that the >8050 was not even read-compatible with the older, 40 track, drives like >the 4040. Agreed. > > Open 3040 up, it looks like an electrolytic cap has burned out (literally, > >It's normally tantalum (electrolytic) capacitors that do this. I've had >many of those explode... Hmm. It's presently unidentifiable (just a black smear on the circuit board). I'll stick a photo up soon, and hopefully someone with a 3040 can identify the component for me for replacement. Thing is, did the tantalum cap blow because it was old, or because something else was awry? >place. I cleaned the heads. Worked fine, and still works. So you might >want to clean the heads on the 4040... Good point. It was one of the things on the list, but has been postponed following actually getting it working. > > 1) Is it actually possible to copy files from one unit (i.e. diskdrive) to > > another (i.e. Shark)? The COPY command can't (it even says so in the > >As I meationed eaelier, the COPY command really runs on the processor in >the disk unit (the Commodore floppy drive units contain 2 6502s, one to >run the DOS and handle the IEEE-488 port, the other to actually handle >getting bytes to/from the disk [They communicate via a shared memory >area, one of the features of the 6502 is that you can clock 2 of them >together, one with an iverted version of the clock, and they will happily >interleave accesses to memory]. This means that the COPY command can only >copy between drives in the same disk unit. Yes, I'd guessed that was why. It's a shame (but, nevertheless, understandable why) Commodore didn't implement routines to allow unit-unit copying. However, when hard-disks are concerned, I'd have thought it was essential to be able to copy to/from floppy unit to HDD unit. Maybe someone with a 9060 drive (or the other one, who's number I forget) could see if there's any CBM utility to copy files? If so, any chance of a copy of it? >I guess there must have been programs that read a file from one disk into >the PET's memory, and then write it out again to another disk (possibly >in a different unit). I would assume so. I've not really gone looking for one yet, but will do. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sun Jan 12 17:16:02 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003201c2ba8f$e80b2790$513bcd18@D73KSM11> I'll miss the little HTML heart in her pink signature. It added a gentle touch that is so often missing from this list. -W -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of JOHNSOY@aol.com Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 1:57 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: An original Compaq "portable" Thank you so much. I will try. Good luck in your hobby. YVONNE Y -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030112/7277ef3e/attachment.html From collison at cnri.reston.va.us Sun Jan 12 17:16:57 2003 From: collison at cnri.reston.va.us (Ron Collison) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: Tandy 1400 LT Technical Reference Manual and a Quick Reference Guide for sale on Ebay Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030110135025.00b6fc20@mailbox.cnri.reston.va.us> FYI - did a search on Ebay and came up with 2 Tandy 1400 LT manuals, a Technical Reference Manual and a Quick Reference Guide From cde at celebritydirect.net Sun Jan 12 17:23:59 2003 From: cde at celebritydirect.net (Cord G. Coslor - Celebrity Direct Entertainment) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: ScanSet Temat HE 415-B ???? Message-ID: <008601c2b8dc$1bbbbec0$355986d1@earthlink.net> ***I hope this isn't a duplicate message... wasn't originally aware there were two different lists*** Hello ~ I am new to this list and have found an item that I need some help with. Well.... I kind of am new.... I've been away from the list (and collecting classics) for several years (4?) doing other endeavors, but am ready to dust off the old classics and get back into the hobby. I basically specialize in the old 8-bits, game consoles, etc., and currently have about 300 different machines. Anyway, at a "flea market" I came across a yellowish-tan cased integrated keyboard/monitor unit, with the appearance of being late 70s vintage. The monitor was probably 7 inches wide, and the keyboard was pretty laid out pretty tightly. A compact unit overall. No disk drives, etc.... Upon further review, I found it is called a Scanset -- model HE 415-B -- and apparently was made by TEMAT. I have been unable to find any additional information on this computer. Can any of you help? Sincerely, CORD G. COSLOR Archive Software www.ArchiveSoftware.net (under development) Sincerely, CORD G. COSLOR Celebrity Direct Entertainment ----- | Celebrity Direct Entertainment | 49 Halsey Dr. - Hutchinson, KS - 67502 | (620) 665-8366 | www.CelebrityDirect.net * CDE@CelebrityDirect.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030112/1faff802/attachment.html From steve at n9oh.com Sun Jan 12 17:24:45 2003 From: steve at n9oh.com (Steve Woodruff) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:17 2005 Subject: Tek probes Message-ID: <002001c2b8e8$ba25fb50$9d12acc0@jeep> Hi, I came across an email posted some time back about the Tek 4xx scopes and Tek probes. It mentioned that the Tek P6106 is the "Real McCoy". What is different between a P6106 and a P6105? I'm looking for the right probes for a Tek 466. Thanks! Steve, N9OH From jljor at cox.net Sun Jan 12 17:25:20 2003 From: jljor at cox.net (jljor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: Fw: Apple Mactinosh Computer Message-ID: <001601c2b8ee$bece17e0$477f0d44@om.cox.net> The address used below from your web site wasn't valid. ----- Original Message ----- From: jljor To: cctalk@type.domain.here Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 3:16 PM Subject: Apple Mactinosh Computer In June, 1984, as a member of the Research Board, a special group sponsored by MSV Consulting out of New York, I was asked by Steven Jobs to participate in Apple's Executive Advisory Program and evaluate the Mactinosh PC. At the time, I was Vice President of Computer Operations and Communication Systems for Union Pacific Railroad. After completing my evaluation, the Macintosh that I had been evaluating was given to me in appreciation for my participation and contribution to the program. I have a letter dated July 1, 1985, from William V. Campbell, who was Executive Vice President of U.S. sales for Apple, at the time, which verifies that all of this actually transpired. Obviously, I still have the Macintosh. I think It may be unique because of the manner in which I acquired it and the fact that it doesn't have a serial number on the back. Why, I don't know. I think the units may have been pulled off the assembly line in a hurry to make a "hands on" presentation to the members of the Research Board at a meeting in San Francisco. Would you or would you know anyone who could give me an estimated value for this Macintosh? I have a full complement of hardware, including a printer and carrying cases. The equipment is in pristine condition, having been used only briefly over 18 years ago. Any input you may be able to provide will be greatly appreciated. Sincerely, John L. Jorgensen 1800 North 52nd Street Omaha, NE 68104 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030112/8e5c8fc0/attachment.html From ram_suganthi at hotmail.com Sun Jan 12 17:25:54 2003 From: ram_suganthi at hotmail.com (Ram & Suganthi M.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: Old (5.25') PC software Message-ID: Hi, I have been looking for this. I'll take XACT if no one else claimed it, but Eric is right, you do need a dongle to use it... Thanks, Ram _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From jhfineb9rv at compsys.to Sun Jan 12 17:26:28 2003 From: jhfineb9rv at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: Mentec Hobbyist plans? References: <20030110144441.GX5260@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3E1F9EDF.591D0E88@compsys.to> >Bill Bradford wrote: > Anybody know if Mentec (http://www.mentec-inc.com) has just > dropped their hobbyist licensing/cdrom plans? > Bill > bill bradford > mrbill@mrbill.net > austin, texas Jerome Fine replies: Form your own opinion! Please correct any information which is wrong! NOTE: I plan to release a Y2K/Y10K V5.03 of RT-11. I have started on the design and will very shortly post the details. I am looking for a web site to host the files. Can anyone help? ============================================ While the following dates apply mostly to RT-11, the dates for the versions of RSX-11 and RSTS/E which are allowed are probably similar. (a) Probable date of the current Mentec hobby license: (i) Earliest date is probably 1994 when Mentec first became involved with PDP-11 software (ii) Latest date is probably 1997 since the hobby license was already known about (as far as I know) (iii) Actual date was probably 1995 or 1996 (b) Current version of RT-11 allowed under the hobby license is V5.03 released in 1985 (c) V5.06 of RT-11 was released in August 1992 - after that DEC disbanded the RT-11 development team and RT-11 was frozen as far as DEC was concerned (d) A number of individuals produced Y2K bugs fixes for various versions of RT-11, but none for the hobby users (I know since I was one of then - produced them for V5.04G) (e) V5.07 of RT-11 was released in November 1998 - the Y2K bugs were fixed along with a few other bugs - NO enhancements at all (as far as I know EXCEPT perhaps the ether net code which might not have been working correctly - bug fix as well) (f) Mentec no longer fixes any of the bugs in RT-11, let alone makes any additional enhancements (if Mentec attempts to deny that, I have a number of bugs for them to fix - a few of the bugs crash RT-11 and some of the bugs have been there for decades) As far as I know, it seems likely that DEC/Compaq/HP still own the copyright to the DOC set for RT-11. For V5.07, the DOC set is identical to the DOC set for V5.06 EXCEPT that there is a manual of Release Notes for V5.07 that is about all the changes from V5.06 to V5.07 of RT-11. Obviously I may be wrong about the copyright ownership of the DOC set. I don't know anything about the DOC sets for RSX-11 and RSTS/E. On June 6th, 2002, I first saw a web page from Mentec for the hobby license program which was under construction - it is NO longer there. While RSX-11 may still produce net revenue for Mentec, RSTS/E is unlikely to do more than break even. I can't see that Mentec is selling sufficient RT-11 licenses at this point to make a profit from such sales. ============================================ VMS licenses are available through Compaq/HP for the most recent versions of VMS that run on Alpha.. HP is still making many millions of dollars from selling VMS licenses to commercial users and VMS is still under active development. ============================================ Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From Pvolks at usa.net Sun Jan 12 17:27:04 2003 From: Pvolks at usa.net (Peter K.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: SEIKOSHA SP1000VC Message-ID: <3E1FD72F.9070705@usa.net> Hello there, for those interested I've got a SEIKOSHA SP1000VC with the C-64 cable. It has not operated in many years since I sold my c-64 a very long time ago. But it worked flawlessly and hasn't been dropped or abused since. For those interested I am asking for the first good offer over $40us. E-mail me if your interested. PETER K. From runtime at wzrd.com Sun Jan 12 17:27:38 2003 From: runtime at wzrd.com (Don Mitchell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: TK50 Message-ID: I found a box of TK50 tapes I stored away a few years ago and forgot about -- maybe a dozen of them. Free to anybody who wants some or all of them. Contact me at runtime@wzrd.com if you're interested. Don Mitchell From refusesack at yahoo.com Sun Jan 12 17:28:12 2003 From: refusesack at yahoo.com (trash can) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: Toshiba 3100/20 Message-ID: <20030111224327.12073.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com> You wrote... I have two Toshiba 3100/20 plasma display 286 systems. Both working except that one has a dead hard drive. Excellent condition. Have the schematics and service manual, user docs, software. Anybody want them? --cg ...Do you still have them? My friend has one of these beasts, sadly without docs or software. It won't get past some CMOS errors and the HDD fails. It doesn't appear to boot from floppy either, at least it doesn't make any noise! We decided to strip the drive out to mount it from another computer and get the software my friend needs from the drive. We carefully took it apart only to find that the HDD has a 26-pin interface that isn't compatible with IDE. If you still have the manual, could you do me a favour tell me if it is possible to boot this machine from its FDD? Where are you located? I am located in the UK. TIA, __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From nickmiller at charter.net Sun Jan 12 17:28:46 2003 From: nickmiller at charter.net (Nick Miller) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? References: Message-ID: <009101c2b9d0$a40c2270$7a00a8c0@themillers> Just curious. In what other marketplace can you ignore the 10 highest and the 10 lowest prices on an interesting vintage computer and have anything left to average? I would be thrilled if there were 30 Commodore 65, Atari 1450XLD or SOL-20 sales in a year to determine their value, but I don't think that's going to ever happen. If you significantly stretch out the time frame you are averaging over you are going to smooth over important events affecting the value of vintage computer equipment. As an interested party I plan on buying Mike and Sellam's book but we have to realize that eBay has an impact on the value of our collections and while like most rabid collectors the dollar value of my collection is not what is important to me it certainly will be important if I ever have to deal with my insurance agent. As for eBay, the last time I checked the eBay dollars I was spending and being paid in were worth the same as the dollars my employer is paying me every week. I would not have been able to acquire the 300+ computers I have if it were not for eBay. Newsgroups and mailing lists are great for sharing ideas, offering assistance and making contacts but they are really a pretty poor way to buy, sell and trade interesting vintage computers. I for one am damn thankful eBay is as successful as it is. Nick Miller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 11:19 AM Subject: Re: Help with pricing on vintage computers? > On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, John Allain wrote: > > > There's Mike Nadeau and Sellam Ismael's "real" > > book on the subject, wherever it is. > > It's on Amazon, for one ;) > > > Spend 2 hours a week on eBay category 1247 > > http://listings.ebay.com/aw/listings/list/category1247 or the search > > engine to know their prices for whatever it is that you want. > > Ugh. I cannot express enough how much I abhor eBay prices. Unless you > knock off the top 10 highest and bottom 10 lowest prices then take the > average, the prices on eBay only reflect pricing in eBay dollars, which is > to say it is based on some pricing that is of another dimension and has no > meaning in our own universe. > > The corollary is that if there are not enough representative samples to > knock off the top 10 and bottom 10 then eBay is not suitable to use as a > means to price things. > > Buy Mike's book instead. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From zaworskr at sympatico.ca Sun Jan 12 17:29:22 2003 From: zaworskr at sympatico.ca (Richard Zaworski) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: HP35 adapter Message-ID: I've been looking for a HP35 adapter for some time. Do you or someone you know have one for sale at a reasonable price? Please reply, Richard Zaworski -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030112/3df620ae/attachment.html From runtime at wzrd.com Sun Jan 12 17:29:57 2003 From: runtime at wzrd.com (Don Mitchell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: PDP11/73 power-up codes Message-ID: I found EK-KDJ1A-UG-001 "KDJ11-A CPU Module User's Guide," which might help, because unless my memory fails me, the KDJ = 11/73. I didn't immediately find power-up codes in it -- probably because something like MXV11-B2 or other ROM set issues the codes. If I can find an MXV11 doc, I'll post a message. I used to have one. Contact me if you want the KDJ11 manual. runtime@wzrd.com DM From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sun Jan 12 17:31:26 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: Tektronics DAS 9000 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200301121527150508.052F8EE5@192.168.42.129> Hi, Doc, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 12-Jan-03 at 00:59 Doc Shipley wrote: >What is it? Looks like a portable terminal of some kind. It is for >sale at what I think is a tourist price and the dealer won't even pull >it off the shelf till he sees money. The DAS9000 is an early logic analysis system. Needs lots of accessories to work right, and is fairly complex to operate. > Do I want it? ;) Not unless you've got lots of patience, and the aforementioned accessories. ;-) Others on the group can probably tell you more. Good luck. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From mbg at TheWorld.com Sun Jan 12 17:32:02 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: PDP12 on ebay Message-ID: <200301122322.SAA110315761@shell.TheWorld.com> Okay, what happened? The item still shows up in a search for '(dec,digital,pdp)', but when the specific item is selected, it shows up as invalid: "The item you requested ( 2300403973 ) is invalid, still pending, or no longer in our database. Please check the number and try again. If this message persists, the item has either not started and is not yet available for viewing, or has expired and is no longer available." The last price I saw on it was just over $2000... Megan From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 12 17:32:38 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: Shark Update In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030112224347.00b5d930@slave> from "Adrian Vickers" at Jan 12, 3 10:56:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3228 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030112/a9505815/attachment.ksh From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Jan 12 17:33:24 2003 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: <01ee01c2ba0a$28f9bd10$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: <2800A204-2686-11D7-BD9E-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 02:13 AM, Erik S. Klein wrote: > All I have to say is WOW! > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2300403973 > > Note: I am not affiliated with this auction in any way and I'm > precluded > from bidding because my wife would kill me. Oh, to have money again. I'd jump on this in a heartbeat if I could afford it. I hesitate to guess at how much it'll go for...I sure hope it goes to a good home. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Jan 12 17:37:13 2003 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <22E23FB3-2687-11D7-BD9E-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 04:22 PM, Tony Duell wrote: >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2300403973 >> >> Note: I am not affiliated with this auction in any way and I'm >> precluded >> from bidding because my wife would kill me. > > Kersqueeble! Gezundheit. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Jan 12 17:41:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: PDP12 on ebay In-Reply-To: <200301122322.SAA110315761@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: > The last price I saw on it was just over $2000... Still there. $5000. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jingber at ix.netcom.com Sun Jan 12 17:41:36 2003 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: PDP12 on ebay In-Reply-To: <200301122322.SAA110315761@shell.TheWorld.com> References: <200301122322.SAA110315761@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <1042415030.4187.23.camel@supermicro> On Sun, 2003-01-12 at 18:22, Megan wrote: > > Okay, what happened? The item still shows up in a search for > '(dec,digital,pdp)', but when the specific item is selected, it > shows up as invalid: Still see her. Now at $5000.00 with 11 bids. Jeff > > "The item you requested ( 2300403973 ) is invalid, still pending, > or no longer in our database. Please check the number and try again. > If this message persists, the item has either not started and is > not yet available for viewing, or has expired and is no longer > available." > > The last price I saw on it was just over $2000... > > Megan > From mbg at TheWorld.com Sun Jan 12 17:43:00 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay Message-ID: <200301122346.SAA110387473@shell.TheWorld.com> Okay, never mind... it appears to be back... Megan From mbg at TheWorld.com Sun Jan 12 17:44:01 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay Message-ID: <200301122347.SAA108554795@shell.TheWorld.com> Aha... it must have taken a while to process the proxy bidding... the bid is now up to $5000... Megan From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jan 12 17:50:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: <10212131006.ZM6193@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20021212074044.3b8fdf5e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20021212194332.0f477346@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030112183839.0f375f58@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Well the Acorn is alive again. I finally got around to fixing the power supply. That also took care of the buzzing sound that was coming from the speaker. I'm also now getting a prompt. Before the PSU blew I was getting the ROM messages but no prompt. Now I'm getting "Acorn OS", "Acorn DFS", "BASIC" and ">" with a blinking underline prompt after that. However it's still not responding to the keyboard (except for the Control-Break). Just for the hell of it I tried powering it up with different ROMs removed. With the "US BASIC" ROM removed it asked "What Language?". Of course since the keyboard wasn't working I couldn't tell it anything. With both the "US BASIC" and "DNFS" ROM removed it reported "View A2.1", "No Text", Editing No File", "Screen Mode 7", "Printer Default" and a "=>" prompt. Looks like I fell into some kind of monitor program. Still can't do anything due to faulty keyboard. FWIW the memory chips in it are Mostek 4516N-9. I cleaned up before Christmas and misplaced the bag with the screws for it, *&^(&%%! Joe At 10:06 AM 12/13/02 GMT, Pete wrote: >On Dec 12, 19:43, Joe wrote: > >> Nope, all the RAMS are soldered directly to the board and no solder >flux. I'm sure it was built with 32K and that appears to agree with the US >model number. > >Yes, I'm sure it is, I was just pointing out that in the general case, >amount of memory is not a good way to tell. AFAIK, Acorn sold only Model >Bs in the States. > >> It's not running at the moment but when it was it said soemthing >like: >> >> "Acron version 2.1 >> DFS OS >> BASIC OS" >> >> There's also a EPROM that says "DFS OS" in it so I think it's supposed >to say that. > >I've not seen a US model start up, but I expect Acorn removed the "BBC >Microcomputer" part for trademark reasons (in many countries outside the >UK, BBC is a trademark of Brown Boveri & Cie, and anyway it wouldn't mean >the same in the States). Presumably they changed the other strings too. > >How many (EP)ROMs are in it? Do they have any numbers on them? > >> OK thanks for the pointers. I searched the net but found so many >sites that I haven't had time to go throught them all. > >If you're looking for repair information, the ones I listed are good places >to start. You might also consider joining the BBC mailing list. If you >want to, send a message with "subscribe bbc-micro" in the body, to >majordomo at cloud9.co.uk. > >> Nope, that's not what I got. It didn't say anything about BBC or >Microcomputer or the amount of memory and it definitely said "OS" twice. I >did get the beep then the speaker had a slight buzzing in it. (Possible due >the the failing capacitor in the PSU). I was in the process of checking >the PSU outputs for noise when the cap blew. It was quite noticeable! > >Maybe they changed the banners more than I thought. > >> Actually I didn't get a cursor. I wasn't sure if it was supposed to >have one or not. > >Yes, you should. > >> Thanks for the description. That's about what I expected. Sounds like >I need to find a VIA. I need one for my spares anyway. There are two >mylar(?) ribbon cables that connect the keyboard to the main circuit board. >Is the wide one the column inputs and the narrow one the row outputs? >(Keeping my fingers crossed that it's that simple!) > >I doubt if it's that simple. UK models don't use mylar ribbons, they use a >single 17-way notched IDT cable with a 0.1" pitch, and with a single-row >Molex IDT header at each end. If the cable is damaged you can use ordinary >34-way cable with 34-way 2-row IDC headers; just ignore the second row. > Download the service manual; it has the keyboard diagram, with pinouts. > >Fix the PSU first, obviously. The Beeb is a bit choosy about power >regulation, and if the 5V and 0V connectors (of which there are three >pairs) don't all make good connections to the board, you can get strange >faults because the voltage may be too low at some points on the board. The >red and black wires are +5V and 0V respectively. There's a purple wire for >-5V, but this is only used for the serial port and audio amp. There's a >+12V output but only on the AMP connector at the front, as it's only needed >for peripherals. > > >-- >Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sun Jan 12 17:58:17 2003 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (lemay@cs.umn.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: DOS 3.20 In-Reply-To: <00d601c2b9eb$cfdfa9b0$434a1942@starfury> Message-ID: <200301130001.SAA09649@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Well, I have an IBM DOS 3.30 right here. Still in its original shrinkwrap. Just how tall are you? -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu > I believe DOS 3.20 is what I was looking for. It came as original software > for a Packard Bell 386/12T (don't remember the specific model name), and I > used the accompanying book to teach myself DOS programming -- back in > 1991... The system had dual floppies (both sizes), a small hard drive, no > sound except for the system speaker, and one of the first mass production > .25 dpi monitors. I paid through the nose for the system at the time, but > I'd likely give an arm and a leg for that old DOS manual... > > Cheers! > > Ed > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > To: > Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 08:55 PM > Subject: Re: Old (5.25") PC software > > > > On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Ed Tillman wrote: > > > I dunno about these, but would anyone happen to have a copy of DOS 2.x > or > > > 3.x (2.3 and/or 3.2 maybe) on 3.5 disks, nd with the accompanying user > text > > > book? Some of the information in those old texts is still applicable, > but > > > can't be found anywhere... > > > > There ain't no sech thing as 2.3 > > > > 2.xx was only available with 3.5" support in specially modified versions > > for certain specific brands of machines (usually in version 2.11). Even > > the disk format isn't standardized on those. > > > > 3.20 (internally it thinks that it is three point twenty, NOT two), is the > > first version that includes 3.5" support (720K) without special machine > > specific modifications. > > > > 2.11 and 3.31 are only available in versions that were intended for > > specific machines. 'Course in most cases, the only thing that is > > different is the code in MODE.COM, and sometimes FORMAT. > > > > If you have a machine with specific peculiarities, 3.31 is the hot setup. > > > > > > From michael_davidson at pacbell.net Sun Jan 12 18:06:13 2003 From: michael_davidson at pacbell.net (Michael Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: DC003 References: <20030112095505.74156.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E220342.9060407@pacbell.net> Ethan Dicks wrote: >--- Michael Davidson wrote: > >>If memory serves, a DLV11J 4 port async serial interface would be >>a good place to look since they are not particularly hard to find >>and I *think* (sorry, I don't have one I can look at right now) >>they have 4 DC003 chips on them. >> > >Probably not 4 x DC003. Probably 4 x DC005. Probably 1 x DC003. > > Since it's a 4 port serial card with each channel having both a TX and RX interrupt associted with it, and the DC003 is the chip that handles the interrupt request / acknowledge protocol for 2 interrupts you actually *would* expect that there would be 4 x DC003 *and* 4 x DC005. I just found my one "real" DEC DLV11J and it does, in fact have 4 x DC003, but only 3 x DC005. My guess is that since the DLV11J occupies an unusually large range of addresses they didn't need the address decoding capabilities that a full set of 4 x DC005 would have provided and they substituted a cheaper set of bus drivers / receivers for the 4th DC005. Michael Davidson From mross666 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 12 18:10:15 2003 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: Mentec Hobbyist plans? Message-ID: >Bill Bradford wrote: > >Anybody know if Mentec (http://www.mentec-inc.com) has just >dropped their hobbyist licensing/cdrom plans? The Mentec Hobbyist license is *broken*. Clause 1. says: 'EMULATOR shall mean software owned by Digital Equipment Corporation that emulates the operation of a PDP-11 processor and allows PDP-11 programs and operating systems to run on non-PDP-11 systems.' It's crystal-clear; you can't run under the hobbyist license except on a emulator which is *owned by Digital*. There ARE no emulators 'owned by Digital' (or Compaq or HP for that matter). So the Mentec license is no help to anyone who wants to run pdp-11 OSes on emulation (SIMH, E11 etc), and stay 100% legal. It's no help at all as regards running on acutal -11 hardware. It's a very wierd term to have in a license... I guess this term is a hangover from the days when Bob Supnik was still at DEC, and SIMH might have become an official DEC project. Mike http://www.corestore.org _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From msell at ontimesupport.com Sun Jan 12 18:21:00 2003 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 /750 Diagnostics - new project Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030112181005.03276640@127.0.0.1> Guys, After fighting (with no success) my 11/780 again today and wasting a buttload of electricity doing it, it looks like I'm going to have to bite the bullet and create a diagnostic application to help me figure what is wrong with the beast. I originally thought about writing a JAVA-based application that would communicate with the console (card on the 750 and 11/03 on the 780) and by using the minimal troubleshooting commands available, and at least isolate what sections of the startup routines were failing or examine the memory space to figure out what may or may not be responding or is out-of-whack. I would appreciate it if anyone here had some documentation for the 780 outside of the following manuals: Diagnostic System User's Guide Hardware Users Guide Remote Diagnostic Option Guide ... available for purchase - please let me know. These manuals I already have, and if I can't get any clear documentation describing the routines that the 11/03 is executing, then I'll have to manually (with the help of this application) disassemble the code to determine what's not happy. The built in console diagnostics of the 780 do not really give a clear enough picture to find out exactly what has failed just by looking at the program counter value when the 11/03 stops during the boot process (at least with the troubleshooting docs I currently have). I was hoping to create an application that would simulate the boot process, but by examining/depositing register contents as the 11/03 would normally execute them, and provide more detailed information. Of course, this application, being serial based, could certainly extend beyond the realms of the 11/780 and 11/750. You could conceivably deposit boot programs into memory if your boot media fails, or even extend the application to work with other computers/manufacturers as well. Any suggestions or additional comments would be welcome. I would probably make this application available under a GPL- style license, even though I do not agree with Mr. Stallman's religious beliefs regarding commercial application development... (but that is a different story for another day) - Matt P.S. - Gunther - did you get your 780 running yet? Hopefully I can help you out as well. Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030112/23e695fe/attachment.html From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sun Jan 12 18:44:01 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: PDP12 on ebay In-Reply-To: <200301122322.SAA110315761@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <023901c2ba9d$475c7a70$6e7ba8c0@piii933> eBay seems to be having capacity problems. I get that a lot but when I re-click on the item it usually appears, as if by magic! :) Erik -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Megan Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 3:23 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: PDP12 on ebay Okay, what happened? The item still shows up in a search for '(dec,digital,pdp)', but when the specific item is selected, it shows up as invalid: "The item you requested ( 2300403973 ) is invalid, still pending, or no longer in our database. Please check the number and try again. If this message persists, the item has either not started and is not yet available for viewing, or has expired and is no longer available." The last price I saw on it was just over $2000... Megan From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jan 12 18:56:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: Joe "Update: BBC Acorn" (Jan 12, 18:38) References: <3.0.6.16.20021212074044.3b8fdf5e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20021212194332.0f477346@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030112183839.0f375f58@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <10301130059.ZM3495@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 12, 18:38, Joe wrote: > Well the Acorn is alive again. I finally got around to fixing the > power supply. That also took care of the buzzing sound that was > coming from the speaker. I'm also now getting a prompt. Before the > PSU blew I was getting the ROM messages but no prompt. Now I'm > getting "Acorn OS", "Acorn DFS", "BASIC" and ">" with a blinking > underline prompt after that. However it's still not responding to > the keyboard (except for the Control-Break). Well, that's a fair amount of progress, even without the keyboard. Do you still have the description I wrote about how it works? > Just for the hell of it I tried powering it up with different > ROMs removed. With the "US BASIC" ROM removed it asked "What Language?". > Of course since the keyboard wasn't working I couldn't tell it anything. You wouldn't have been able to anyway. Without a language ROM of some sort, it won't listen to you. unless you have a Second Processor unit installed, and it drops to the "*" prompt. > With both the "US BASIC" and "DNFS" ROM removed it reported "View A2.1", > "No Text", Editing No File", "Screen Mode 7", "Printer Default" and a > "=>" prompt. Looks like I fell into some kind of monitor program. > Still can't do anything due to faulty keyboard. That's not a monitor prompt, it's the command mode of VIEW, which is a word processor. This is slightly odd. View is, in Acorn OS terms, a language, equivalent to BASIC, COMAL, LOGO, FORTH, Wordwise, or any number of terminal emulator ROMs. So removing BASIC but leaving View and the DNFS should have resulted in your getting the View prompt, just as it did when you took out both BASIC and DNFS. > I cleaned up before Christmas and misplaced the bag with the screws > for it, *&^(&%%! That's all right. No proper BBC Micro has screws, except three M3 machine screws to hold the PSU in place, and *possibly* some mushroom-head self-tappers to hold the PCB steady. The keyboard screws should be replaced with PCB clips for quick access, and the case screws should be thrown away ;-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jan 12 18:57:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: PDP12 on ebay In-Reply-To: <200301122322.SAA110315761@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030112190305.0f170df2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> The URL works for me. Try . I JUST used it. Joe At 06:22 PM 1/12/03 -0500, you wrote: > >Okay, what happened? The item still shows up in a search for >'(dec,digital,pdp)', but when the specific item is selected, it >shows up as invalid: > > "The item you requested ( 2300403973 ) is invalid, still pending, > or no longer in our database. Please check the number and try again. > If this message persists, the item has either not started and is > not yet available for viewing, or has expired and is no longer > available." > >The last price I saw on it was just over $2000... > > Megan > > From jcwren at jcwren.com Sun Jan 12 18:59:01 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: NextCube --- Take it or leave it? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030112181005.03276640@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <000c01c2ba9f$57735da0$020010ac@k4jcw> I have an opportunity to trade a ThinkPad laptop straight across for a N1000 NextCube, complete with monitor, mouse, keyboard, etc. The unit is in good shape, and functions. I haven't had a lot of time to do research, so I thought I'd ask the experts. Is this worth messing with? The laptop has little value to me, and the shipping on the monitor (from Denver to Atlanta) could be a tad painful. I'm not hurting for a NextCube, but it might be an interesting item to toss in the warehouse until I get a house again. The alternative is if there is a enough interest in the NextCube, I would probably use as collateral in a trade for 1802 based gear, or perhaps some S-100 (I recently acquired a SOL-20, and I'm thinking of looking for a Tarbell DSDD controller to use in it, to talk to the two Qume DataTrak-8s that are on my IMSAI). --John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030112/27fdbc79/attachment.html From arcarlini at iee.org Sun Jan 12 19:14:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 /750 Diagnostics - new project In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030112181005.03276640@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <000b01c2baa1$76dd22a0$cb87fe3e@athlon> >I would appreciate it if anyone here had some documentation >for the 780 outside of the following manuals: > >Diagnostic System User's Guide >Hardware Users Guide >Remote Diagnostic Option Guide I sent a bunch to http://208.190.133.201/decimages/moremanuals.htm and they are all up now. Near the bottom. No sign of the Remote Diagnostic Option Guide but I guess you'll scan that and send it along if you find the others useful :-) One of those 780 manuals lists a bunch of related manuals. Most are up on that page, except for the schematics. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com Sun Jan 12 19:38:01 2003 From: 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com (No Junk Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: Old (5.25") PC software Message-ID: <7839-63376@sneakemail.com> Yeah, yeah, replying to my own email, bad form, etc. I'm an idiot. I just received a 3.5" floppy disk in a CatWeasel Mk3 package from the US and it was fine. Since *every* incoming package is scanned and 5.25" disks are on the whole *more* robust than 3.5" disks, then sending 5.25" disks out of the country should be safe. Judging by the order of emails Ram will get XACT and Gene will get all the other originals I'm prepared to part with (if he's still interested without XACT). I'll box them up and workout postage soon. Just so I know, are there people here that have "standing orders" for any original software I can find? The total load of disks that were disposed of recently (not that much made it to a bin) included: 5.25" DSDD blanks 5.25" DSDD originals 5.25" DSHD originals (I grabbed all of the above) 5.25" DSHD blanks 3.5" blanks and originals of both densities with possibly some Mac software as well as PC. By "blanks" I mean non-originals, backups, data, copies, and actual blanks that have probably never been used (certainly never labelled). What are people after? > I wrote: > > Just scanning emails quickly, so I might have missed something, > but... > > I'm up for it, but Australia *just* implmented a new international > mail scanning > technology (incoming *and* outgoing) and I want to find out if it > nukes disks before > I send too many. > > Will sort things out hopefully next week. Chris J. > > > At 08:34 AM 1/11/2003 +0800, I wrote: > > > > > >I recently salved a whole bunch of original (PC) 5.25" disks for > > assorted > > >business and education-oriented software. > > > > > >One product that featured highly and looks like the sort of thing > > people > > >might still be using is Xilinx's Xact. A huge number of disks -- > > looks > > >like lots of incremental updates. Some are still sealed in > > >plastic. Anyone want? > > > > > >Other titles of note include: > > > > > >cc:Mail > > >Lotus 123 > > >Pro-Cite > > >Ventura Publisher > > >Project Scheduler 5 > > >Quattro > > >Persona Logican > > >Da Vinci eMail > > >Sun PC-NFS > > >Ansi-Console > > >Softerm PC > > >Compaq MS-DOS 3.31 > > >R&R Report Writer > > > > > >Given that I'm in Australia anyone who can convince me they're a > > good home > > >;) can have them for the cost of postage + a few percent to cope > > with > > >PayPal fees. > > > > > >KrisHaven {at} SpamCop {dOt} Net > > > > > >Chris J. > > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jan 12 19:46:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: <200301122346.SAA110387473@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: >Okay, never mind... it appears to be back... > > Megan I've seen that a couple times lately, once on an item yesterday that I clicked on 'view sellers other items' and then backclicked. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jan 12 20:03:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: Mentec Hobbyist plans? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >There ARE no emulators 'owned by Digital' (or Compaq or HP for that matter). >So the Mentec license is no help to anyone who wants to run pdp-11 OSes on >emulation (SIMH, E11 etc), and stay 100% legal. It's no help at all as >regards running on acutal -11 hardware. Back when Bob was at DEC, the understanding was that this covered SIMH, and a commercial Emulator that DEC sold. If anyone knows/remembers what this commercial emulator is/was, I'd really appreciate knowing, as I'd like to put the info up on my PDP-11 Emulation webpage. All I can remember is it was some outragously expensive price that no hobbyist could hope to afford. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jingber at ix.netcom.com Sun Jan 12 20:05:01 2003 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: NextCube --- Take it or leave it? In-Reply-To: <000c01c2ba9f$57735da0$020010ac@k4jcw> References: <000c01c2ba9f$57735da0$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <1042423589.4151.27.camel@supermicro> Depends what the processor and drive setup the Cube is equipped with. I'd say it's a decent trade if the unit has a floppy and 040 system board. If it's an 030 Cube with or without an OD, I'd pass it up as it's fairly easy to come by these systems, probably for less than the value of the laptop. Jeff On Sun, 2003-01-12 at 20:01, J.C.Wren wrote: > I have an opportunity to trade a ThinkPad laptop straight across for a > N1000 NextCube, complete with monitor, mouse, keyboard, etc. The unit is in > good shape, and functions. I haven't had a lot of time to do research, so I > thought I'd ask the experts. Is this worth messing with? The laptop has > little value to me, and the shipping on the monitor (from Denver to Atlanta) > could be a tad painful. I'm not hurting for a NextCube, but it might be an > interesting item to toss in the warehouse until I get a house again. > > The alternative is if there is a enough interest in the NextCube, I > would probably use as collateral in a trade for 1802 based gear, or perhaps > some S-100 (I recently acquired a SOL-20, and I'm thinking of looking for a > Tarbell DSDD controller to use in it, to talk to the two Qume DataTrak-8s > that are on my IMSAI). > > --John From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jan 12 20:05:30 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: It's ALIVE! Re: Update: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: <10301130059.ZM3495@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20021212074044.3b8fdf5e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20021212194332.0f477346@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030112183839.0f375f58@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030112211133.76ff506e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Worked on the Acorn after supper and got it working! Yippie! At 12:59 AM 1/13/03 GMT, you wrote: >On Jan 12, 18:38, Joe wrote: >> Well the Acorn is alive again. I finally got around to fixing the >> power supply. That also took care of the buzzing sound that was >> coming from the speaker. I'm also now getting a prompt. Before the >> PSU blew I was getting the ROM messages but no prompt. Now I'm >> getting "Acorn OS", "Acorn DFS", "BASIC" and ">" with a blinking >> underline prompt after that. However it's still not responding to >> the keyboard (except for the Control-Break). > >Well, that's a fair amount of progress, even without the keyboard. Do you >still have the description I wrote about how it works? You bet! I saved all the messages until I could work on it. BTW I been finding some interesting things in it. First, I was screwing around with the keyboard and hit Shift Break and it shifted to an 80 (?) column mode and reports "Econet Station No 1 No Clock". I looked and it does have the 68b54 ADLC IC. It also has the 8271 Floppy Controller IC. Also I think the unmarked ROM is an AVIEW ROM. I poped up with a message about Aview while I was testing it. Also it has a DNFS (Disc and Network OSs?) ROM in it. I looked at the pictures on the websites that you recommended and this Acorn is VERY different inside than any of the ones shown on the websites. All of the ICs are arranged completely differently and the IC numbers are different. > >> Just for the hell of it I tried powering it up with different >> ROMs removed. With the "US BASIC" ROM removed it asked "What Language?". >> Of course since the keyboard wasn't working I couldn't tell it anything. > >You wouldn't have been able to anyway. Without a language ROM of some >sort, it won't listen to you. unless you have a Second Processor unit >installed, and it drops to the "*" prompt. > >> With both the "US BASIC" and "DNFS" ROM removed it reported "View A2.1", >> "No Text", Editing No File", "Screen Mode 7", "Printer Default" and a >> "=>" prompt. Looks like I fell into some kind of monitor program. >> Still can't do anything due to faulty keyboard. > >That's not a monitor prompt, it's the command mode of VIEW, which is a word >processor. > >This is slightly odd. View is, in Acorn OS terms, a language, equivalent >to BASIC, COMAL, LOGO, FORTH, Wordwise, or any number of terminal emulator >ROMs. So removing BASIC but leaving View and the DNFS should have resulted >in your getting the View prompt, just as it did when you took out both >BASIC and DNFS. It might have but I didn't try removing the BASIC ROM and leaving in the DNFS ROM. I was removing and replacing them in the order that they're installed in the machine. In this one the order is (unreadable label), View, DNFS, US BASIC and an empty socket. > >> I cleaned up before Christmas and misplaced the bag with the screws >> for it, *&^(&%%! > >That's all right. No proper BBC Micro has screws, except three M3 machine >screws to hold the PSU in place, and *possibly* some mushroom-head >self-tappers to hold the PCB steady. The keyboard screws should be >replaced with PCB clips for quick access, and the case screws should be >thrown away ;-) I guess that's what I'll do but the short ground jumper for the keyboard was in there too :-( I found some PC screws that fit the PSU and I didn't have the main PCB out so at least they're bolted down. Thanks for your help and the website references. I've been finding lots of interesting info on there. I was impressed with the Acorn's versatility and the number of different interfaces that the Acorn has. You can even use 8" floppy drives with it! Nothing in the US comes close AFIK. I also searched E-bay for "BBC Acorn" and found loads of interesting goodies for it. It looks like the Acorn users are still very active in the UK. Joe > > >-- >Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > From runtime at wzrd.com Sun Jan 12 20:06:01 2003 From: runtime at wzrd.com (Don Mitchell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: RSX-11M documentation set Message-ID: It's probably obvious from the TK50 posting that I'm cleaning out old storerooms. I have a nearly-complete set of RSX-11M manuals in many feet of orange binders. If you need a particular manual, let me know and I'll see if it's there. If you want the whole thing, be prepared to pay for actual shipping costs -- it's a big documentation set. contact runtime@wzrd.com Don Mitchell From runtime at wzrd.com Sun Jan 12 20:06:30 2003 From: runtime at wzrd.com (Don Mitchell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: RSX-11M doc set Message-ID: The RSX11-M doc set is for 4.1. Sorry for the oversight. It also includes the DEC RSX Basic docs. For contact info see my earlier posting. DM From mrbill at mrbill.net Sun Jan 12 20:06:59 2003 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: Mentec Hobbyist plans? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030110153600.03b6cd50@127.0.0.1> References: <20030110144441.GX5260@mrbill.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20030110153600.03b6cd50@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <20030113005500.GP3605@mrbill.net> On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 03:37:23PM -0600, Matthew Sell wrote: > Mentec, not Montagar.... > : ) > I'm sure Bill is referring to PDP-11 OSs, not VMS. Correct. Two entirely different beasts. Bill -- bill bradford mrbill@mrbill.net austin, texas From rob at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Sun Jan 12 20:07:30 2003 From: rob at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030112183839.0f375f58@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <10212131006.ZM6193@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3.0.6.16.20021212074044.3b8fdf5e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20021212194332.0f477346@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030112004826.0287b008@pop.freeserve.net> FWIW, View is a word processor. Acorn OS Acorn DFS BASIC > is exactly correct - you are in basic now. If you can get keyboard working, you can key *HELP for a list of installed ROMs, and other accessible system commands. I recently sold an American beeb that had been converted back to British specs. Interesting piece. I've also got a German one (also with a dodgy PSU) that is pretty much the same. The "normal" British ones didn't have any of the heavy metal screening around the case. Oh, newbie list member here (thanks to the slashdot article). The PDP talk makes me want to kick my boss - he chucked two PDP11/23 clones (but original boards inside) on the tip last year, as well as sone S100 machine. I knew they'd have been worth something, but he's something of a chuck-out maniac. Cheers, Rob. At 18:38 12/01/2003 +0000, Joe wrote: > Well the Acorn is alive again. I finally got around to fixing the power > supply. That also took care of the buzzing sound that was coming from the > speaker. I'm also now getting a prompt. Before the PSU blew I was > getting the ROM messages but no prompt. Now I'm getting "Acorn OS", > "Acorn DFS", "BASIC" and ">" with a blinking underline prompt after that. > However it's still not responding to the keyboard (except for the > Control-Break). > > Just for the hell of it I tried powering it up with different ROMs > removed. With the "US BASIC" ROM removed it asked "What Language?". Of > course since the keyboard wasn't working I couldn't tell it anything. > With both the "US BASIC" and "DNFS" ROM removed it reported "View A2.1", > "No Text", Editing No File", "Screen Mode 7", "Printer Default" and a > "=>" prompt. Looks like I fell into some kind of monitor program. Still > can't do anything due to faulty keyboard. > > FWIW the memory chips in it are Mostek 4516N-9. > > I cleaned up before Christmas and misplaced the bag with the screws for > it, *&^(&%%! > > Joe From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Jan 12 20:11:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: Digging in basement, "new" finds (pick, m4 data 1/2 tape) Message-ID: <000b01c2baa9$7f554810$6101a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I was digging in the basement, and found a few things I forgot I had. I think some on the list may be interested in copies of some of this stuff, if so, let me know off list. A lot of Pick Assembler documentation from my days working on the Pick O/S: The original "rainbow" microdata reality assembler manual, the ultimate pick assembler manual, the general automation pick assembler manual, and the alpha microsystems pick "open architecture" assembler manual. Some of the stuff in this box was "confidential - internal only" and not for public release. I doubt they care these days. Various info on the M4 Data autoloading 1/2 tape drive: The M4 Data 9900 series tape drive field service manual (very thick, includes schematics), the M4 Data Diagnostics manual for 8900, 9800, and 9903 streaming tape drives (this is really 5 pages of quick reference lists for the diagnostics on the drive). Then there is a 3 page chart showing the jumper settings for the optional SCSI interface card (this drive was most often pertec, not scsi). I seem to recall someone asking about this on the list a while back. I was sure I had accidentally pitched this info - so I was quite happy to find it, since I have a mint M4 in the basement :) Jay West -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030112/e0789732/attachment.html From jss at subatomix.com Sun Jan 12 20:15:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: <003201c2ba8f$e80b2790$513bcd18@D73KSM11> References: <003201c2ba8f$e80b2790$513bcd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <10469567813.20030112201810@subatomix.com> On Sunday, January 12, 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > I'll miss the little HTML heart in her pink signature. It added a gentle > touch that is so often missing from this list. Oh, I don't think you'll lose too much sleep. Here's that person's last message to me: > ALSO, F--K U > > YVONNE > Y That was in reply to my message to him/her: > I have removed your subscription to ClassicCmp. > > Please be aware in the future that it is *very* bad netiquette to post > administrative requests to a mailing list. People who subscribe to the > list have better things to do than read subscribe/unsubscribe requests. If > you join Internet mailing list discussion groups in the future, please be > aware that each one has a separate address for administrative requests. > This knowledge will save you a headache or two. > > For further information on netiquette, please see: > > http://www.albion.com/netiquette/book/index.html YA AOL luser. LART, anyone? -- Jeffrey Sharp From runtime at wzrd.com Sun Jan 12 20:21:09 2003 From: runtime at wzrd.com (Don Mitchell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: TK50 / RSX Docs Message-ID: Sorry, folks. Both have been spoken for. Don From msell at ontimesupport.com Sun Jan 12 20:21:44 2003 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 /750 Diagnostics - new project In-Reply-To: <000b01c2baa1$76dd22a0$cb87fe3e@athlon> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030112181005.03276640@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030112202245.030c5da8@127.0.0.1> Antonio, Thanks a bunch for scanning those. Do you have any tips for scanning books? Such as resolution, color settings, etc... - Matt At 01:16 AM 1/13/2003 +0000, you wrote: > >I would appreciate it if anyone here had some documentation > >for the 780 outside of the following manuals: > > > >Diagnostic System User's Guide > >Hardware Users Guide > >Remote Diagnostic Option Guide > >I sent a bunch to http://208.190.133.201/decimages/moremanuals.htm >and they are all up now. Near the bottom. > >No sign of the Remote Diagnostic Option Guide >but I guess you'll scan that and send it along if you >find the others useful :-) > >One of those 780 manuals lists a bunch of related manuals. >Most are up on that page, except for the schematics. > >Antonio > >-- > >--------------- >Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030112/112fa232/attachment.html From hansp at aconit.org Sun Jan 12 20:36:00 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:18 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay References: <20030112172514.58561.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E2226EC.4070702@aconit.org> Zane H. Healy wrote: >>It looks like Al Kossow is the high bidder now, and he surpased the > This is one system I *REALLY* hope he gets! I want to see scan's of some > of those manuals :^) Seems like Al has been outbid, is it time to set up a subscription to support Al in snagging the machine? I'd be up to subscribing $50 toward such a project. --- hbp From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Jan 12 20:40:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: scanning notes (was RE: VAX 11/780 /750 Diagnostics - new project) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030112202245.030c5da8@127.0.0.1> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030112181005.03276640@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20030112202245.030c5da8@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <33819.64.169.63.74.1042425780.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Matt asks: > Do you have any tips for scanning books? Such as resolution, color > settings, etc... 300 to 400 DPI. B&W only, unless the originals make use of color. Save B&W images as TIFF Class F Group 4, except for pages that have photographs. Those should be saved as JPEG (either color or grey scale). Text and line art should *never* be saved as JPEG, because that makes it blurry [*]. I recommend saving any "mixed" pages (containing text/line art AND photographs) as both TIFF Class F G4 and JPEG. Many programs only offer a vague "TIFF" option for saved files, without telling you what kind of TIFF they will produce. That's like asking a car salesman what kind of engine a car has, and being told "internal combustion". It's true, but it hasn't told you anything useful. You can use the "tiffinfo" program from the libtiff package to find out what kind of compression a TIFF file really has. Group 3 lossless compression is an acceptable alternative to Group 4, but doesn't achieve quite as good a compression ratio. More recently, JBIG and JBIG2 standards for lossless compression have appeared. They offer even higher compression rations than G4. However, JBIG and JBIG2 are currently encumbered by patents, so not much software uses them yet. I recommend avoiding them. If you plan to convert the scanned documents to PDF files, it is useful to note that G3 and G4 compression are natively supported by the PDF standard and all compliant viewer software. Eric [*] JPEG compression is designed specifically for lossy compression of continuous tone images. The compression is achieved by throwing away high frequency components of the image. Text and line art have sharp edges with a lot of high-frequency components, so JPEG compression causes blurring. Although you can adjust the degree of lossiness of most JPEG compressors, if you turn it down enough to not cause noticable blurring, you also don't get nearly as good a compression ration as lossless Group 4 encoding. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jan 12 20:42:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: An original AOLuser In-Reply-To: <10469567813.20030112201810@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > ALSO, F--K U It seems that almost anybody who doesn't know how to UNSUBscribe from a mailing list (that they SUBSCRIBEd to) is also overly prone to taking offense. From mrbill at mrbill.net Sun Jan 12 20:47:14 2003 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: Anybody need some RL02s? Message-ID: <20030113024946.GQ3605@mrbill.net> I got a mail from a person in Houston who has an 11/44 they needed to get rid of... but their u-haul truck fell through, and they had to haul it up here to Austin in batches, in their car. Tonight I got the first part of the batch - which ended up being a pair of RL02 drives, and a MINC-11! pictures: http://www.pdp11.org/minc/ Anybody need the RL02s? Right now, I'm concentrating mostly on getting all this documentation organized and scanned (finally!) and just messing around with smaller systems. So, I dont have space for the RL02s, although I'll be using that enclosure to rackmount some other equipment. Next week (hopefully), he'll be bringing up the 11/44 if weather and time permits. Therefore, two free RL02s. Must be picked up in Austin, Texas. I *might* have a disk pack for one of them around somewhere as well; need to dig. Megan Gentry - please email me your postal address again; I have a huge box of print sets and paper tapes to send your way. Email me if interested.. Bill -- bill bradford mrbill@mrbill.net austin, texas From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Jan 12 20:47:48 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: <3E2226EC.4070702@aconit.org> Message-ID: > Seems like Al has been outbid, is it time to set up a subscription to > support Al in snagging the machine? I'd be up to subscribing $50 toward > such a project. Frankly, I think the final bid will be quite a bit more that $5,000. That IBM 650 on Ebay a while back did not gather anywhere near this much attention... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jan 12 20:48:19 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: <10469567813.20030112201810@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > Oh, I don't think you'll lose too much sleep. Here's that person's last > message to me: > > > ALSO, F--K U > > > > YVONNE > > Y > > That was in reply to my message to him/her: > > For further information on netiquette, please see: > > > > http://www.albion.com/netiquette/book/index.html > > YA AOL luser. LART, anyone? Oh, I dunno. You have to admit that AOL provides a very important service to us -- it keeps a LOT of the flotsam and jetsam from cluttering up the real internet. One of my clients calls AOL "The Jerry Springer Show of Wide-Area Networks" Doc From msell at ontimesupport.com Sun Jan 12 20:53:00 2003 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: <3E2226EC.4070702@aconit.org> References: <20030112172514.58561.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030112205522.03063ea0@127.0.0.1> Only if we can timeshare.... : ) - Matt At 03:39 AM 1/13/2003 +0100, you wrote: >Zane H. Healy wrote: >>>It looks like Al Kossow is the high bidder now, and he surpased the > >>This is one system I *REALLY* hope he gets! I want to see scan's of some >>of those manuals :^) > >Seems like Al has been outbid, is it time to set up a subscription to >support Al in snagging the machine? I'd be up to subscribing $50 toward >such a project. > > --- hbp Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030112/f6e4395d/attachment.html From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jan 12 20:57:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: <3E2226EC.4070702@aconit.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Hans B Pufal wrote: > Zane H. Healy wrote: > >>It looks like Al Kossow is the high bidder now, and he surpased the > > > This is one system I *REALLY* hope he gets! I want to see scan's of some > > of those manuals :^) > > Seems like Al has been outbid, is it time to set up a subscription to > support Al in snagging the machine? I'd be up to subscribing $50 toward > such a project. Is it only me, or does that listing look like hammered crap in Mozilla? I'm on my laptop, which runs at 1400x1050 only, so I have the fonts juked up to 14pt. The text runs right over the bidding frame and most of the pics. It's not the font size either - I turned my fonts down to 10 pt. and no joy. Doc From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Jan 12 21:00:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Doc Shipley wrote: > > One of my clients calls AOL "The Jerry Springer Show of Wide-Area > Networks" Then there were/are the Webbies... WebTV - Get youres' 2dAy! Cheers bigWArezL33tD00dCooLHaX0R@droolerluser.com From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Jan 12 21:15:01 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: Shark Update In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030112001424.00b4d3c0@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030112133540.0317da00@pop-server.socal.rr.com> >3) Does *anyone* make DIN plugs which don't melt if you bring a soldering >iron within 5ft of them? > >4) Where's my coffee? Coffee is an addiction and bad for you. Plug the connector into a socket while you solder the pins. Keep the tip clean and wet with solder, don't dick around, heat the connection, poke a bit of solder at it, and leave it alone as soon as it flows. Use a good quality iron. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Jan 12 21:17:01 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: <01b301c2b9db$121b9890$6e7ba8c0@piii933> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030112180633.031801a0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 05:36 PM 1/11/03 -0800, you wrote: >"Erik, I'm sorry to say but I think you ripped yourself off." > >Hehe. I may have but the condition of the machine and manuals sold me >on the deal. The thrasher's I've passed up were truly junk. > >Either way, I've made far worse financial decisions in my time, so I >wouldn't be too bummed about overpaying on a $100 machine. If you find something you want, and its something hard to find, and you can afford the price regardless of what it is, passing it by is a mistake. Anything you want, and turn down at $100 you really must not want very much. OTOH I have a whole host of things I would like to have, but only in the course of the hunt, ie I have to dig it out of a box and haggle for it. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sun Jan 12 21:20:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: <3E2226EC.4070702@aconit.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Hans B Pufal wrote: > Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > It looks like Al Kossow is the high bidder now, and he surpased the > > > This is one system I *REALLY* hope he gets! I want to see scan's of some > > of those manuals :^) > > Seems like Al has been outbid, is it time to set up a subscription to > support Al in snagging the machine? I'd be up to subscribing $50 toward > such a project. I don't know; $5000 is a lot of money. That sucks. I don't recognize the new high bidder's name at all. The chances are that we'll never see copies of those docs now. -brian. From cb at mythtech.net Sun Jan 12 21:36:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: scanning notes (was RE: VAX 11/780 /750 Diagnostics - new project) Message-ID: >> Do you have any tips for scanning books? Such as resolution, color >> settings, etc... And to go one step further... recommendations for what hardware people use for scanning? I am thinking about undertaking some manual archiving. Mostly so I can get rid of manuals that I no longer need, but might want to reference once again some day in the future. I was thinking of using an old HP OfficeJet all in one Fax/Scanner/Printer for the task. I figured that way I could drop a dozen pages on it at a time. I don't have a sheet feeder for any of my flatbed scanners. Would something like this work for the task? Or am I better off locating a cheap used sheet feeder for a flat bed scanner. In the long run I figure I will save to PDF... but with how cheap CDs are, I will most likely keep the interm scanned image as well, and just make the PDF more for easy quick access to the pages. -chris From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Jan 12 21:42:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I don't know; $5000 is a lot of money. That sucks. I don't recognize > the new high bidder's name at all. The chances are that we'll never see > copies of those docs now. Actually, I think RCS has most of the -12 docs anyway, in which case they have been sent to Al a while back, in Al's possession now, or will be sent to Al. Same with RICM. I am not sure if any of the Temple doc stash has made it west yet. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From cb at mythtech.net Sun Jan 12 21:44:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" Message-ID: > Then there were/are the Webbies... > > WebTV - Get youres' 2dAy! Hey... I got great use from WebTV... I bought someone's used system for $10 at a garage sale. Saved me $40 on the cost of the keyboard to work with my Satellite Decoder... and I got a 1 gig IDE hard drive as a bonus. :-) -chris From allain at panix.com Sun Jan 12 21:45:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay References: Message-ID: <000b01c2bab6$8a7da720$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Tony Duell said: > Kersqueeble! Funny, I put that word into Yahoo and it generated exactly 1 hit, from you in the archives 5.002 years ago. So, it's Kersqueeble day. What's Kersqueeble day?? John A. From pcw at mesanet.com Sun Jan 12 21:47:01 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Hans B Pufal wrote: > > > Zane H. Healy wrote: > > >>It looks like Al Kossow is the high bidder now, and he surpased the > > > > > This is one system I *REALLY* hope he gets! I want to see scan's of some > > > of those manuals :^) > > > > Seems like Al has been outbid, is it time to set up a subscription to > > support Al in snagging the machine? I'd be up to subscribing $50 toward > > such a project. > > Is it only me, or does that listing look like hammered crap in > Mozilla? I'm on my laptop, which runs at 1400x1050 only, so I have the > fonts juked up to 14pt. The text runs right over the bidding frame and > most of the pics. > It's not the font size either - I turned my fonts down to 10 pt. and > no joy. > > Doc > > Yep same thing here... Peter Wallace From allain at panix.com Sun Jan 12 21:49:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay References: <20030112172514.58561.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> <3E2226EC.4070702@aconit.org> Message-ID: <002f01c2bab7$1a9a5a60$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Seems like Al has been outbid, is it time to set up a subscription > to support Al in snagging the machine? I'd be up to subscribing > $50 toward such a project. I'd do more, provided he allows me 'visitation rights'. John A. From pcw at mesanet.com Sun Jan 12 21:50:01 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: <3E2226EC.4070702@aconit.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Hans B Pufal wrote: > Zane H. Healy wrote: > >>It looks like Al Kossow is the high bidder now, and he surpased the > > > This is one system I *REALLY* hope he gets! I want to see scan's of some > > of those manuals :^) > > Seems like Al has been outbid, is it time to set up a subscription to > support Al in snagging the machine? I'd be up to subscribing $50 toward > such a project. > > --- hbp > > Since its up to 5K and still 9 days before the end of the auction, dont know what luck you would have, but I'd throw in some funds for Al if it would help... Peter Wallace From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sun Jan 12 21:51:01 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: Mentec Hobbyist plans? References: Message-ID: <3E223840.19DABC01@compsys.to> >"Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >There ARE no emulators 'owned by Digital' (or Compaq or HP for that matter). > >So the Mentec license is no help to anyone who wants to run pdp-11 OSes on > >emulation (SIMH, E11 etc), and stay 100% legal. It's no help at all as > >regards running on acutal -11 hardware. > Back when Bob was at DEC, the understanding was that this covered SIMH, and > a commercial Emulator that DEC sold. If anyone knows/remembers what this > commercial emulator is/was, I'd really appreciate knowing, as I'd like to > put the info up on my PDP-11 Emulation webpage. All I can remember is it > was some outragously expensive price that no hobbyist could hope to afford. Jerome Fine replies: As far as I can remember, the other emulator was also by DEC at the time, but was a commercial product that was extremely expensive and ran on an Alpha, probably under Windows NT, but it could have been VMS. The name Charon comes to my mind as well. As far as I can remember, Mentec also sold the Charon emulator, and maybe still does, BUT would never give Ersatz-11 (and John Wilson) a mention. As for the initial response about there no longer being a DEC emulator available since DEC no longer exists, there seems to be three possible interpretations. (a) Before Compaq bought out DEC, the emulator developed by Bib Supnik qualified as the specified hobby emulator for the PDP-11 which could run on various systems since it is written in "C". Also, what Bob wrote while he was working for DEC probably belonged to DEC, but since there was no charge for the emulator, that aspect never became a problem. I would suggest that since at one time that emulator qualified, it would continue to be grand fathered into still being qualified. Thus those old versions from the DEC days are still OK to use. (b) Mentec seems to have informally allowed SIMH to continue to be qualified in the same manner as the original Supnik emulator since by default, there have NEVER (to my knowledge) been any protests by Mentec against using the current versions of SIMH as the emulator that is one of those that is allowed. (c) There are a number of other interpretations that perhaps only a lawyer might suggest. I don't see any point in upsetting the apple cart (or the PDP-11 cart or especially the RT-11 cart), but from many indications I have seen, one of the most important aspects is that every use of the software that originally was allowed for hobby use under the Supnik emulator is that all current uses REMAIN as ONLY for hobby use. Thus as long as there is no money ever changing hands, Mentec seems to be taking a low key approach. BUT, that also means that the hobby users continue to act with discretion and NOT flaunt the use of any versions of the PDP-11 software that are subsequent to those allowed under the current hobby license. This latter aspect is why I am setting as a goal the use of the Y2K/Y10K V5.03 of RT-11 and then ONLY by hobby users. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jan 12 21:57:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: Shark Update In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030112133540.0317da00@pop-server.socal.rr.com > References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030112001424.00b4d3c0@slave> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030112225109.68bfed2a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:40 PM 1/12/03 -0800, you wrote: > >>3) Does *anyone* make DIN plugs which don't melt if you bring a soldering >>iron within 5ft of them? >> >>4) Where's my coffee? > > >Coffee is an addiction and bad for you. > >Plug the connector into a socket while you solder the pins. Keep the tip >clean and wet with solder, don't dick around, heat the connection, poke a >bit of solder at it, and leave it alone as soon as it flows. Use a good >quality iron. One of the tricks to NOT melting the connector is to turn your iron temperature up high. That way you can heat and solder the connection quickly and get off of it instead of continuing to heat everything up. A friend of mine used to repair telephones all day long and he said that he kept his iron at 900d F. Get a junk part and experiment with it. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jan 12 21:58:07 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030112004826.0287b008@pop.freeserve.net> References: <3.0.6.16.20030112183839.0f375f58@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <10212131006.ZM6193@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3.0.6.16.20021212074044.3b8fdf5e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20021212194332.0f477346@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030112230046.76ff9e52@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:58 AM 1/12/03 +0000, Rob wrote: > >FWIW, View is a word processor. > >Acorn OS >Acorn DFS >BASIC > > >is exactly correct - you are in basic now. If you can get keyboard >working, Got it working about three hours ago. Since then I've been reading the docs (online) and trying out everything. It's very different from most US computers and the keyboard layout is STRANGE! you can key *HELP for a list of installed ROMs, and other >accessible system commands. Cool! Thanks for the tip. I tried it and got: DFS 1.00 DFS Utils NFS 3.40 View A2.1 Stored Cmode OS A1.0 > >I recently sold an American beeb that had been converted back to British >specs. Interesting piece. I've also got a German one (also with a dodgy >PSU) that is pretty much the same. The "normal" British ones didn't have >any of the heavy metal screening around the case. > Any idea how many were exported to the US or how many were re-imported to the UK? > >Oh, newbie list member here (thanks to the slashdot article). Oh, well welcome to the list. What kind of stuff are you interested in? > >The PDP talk makes me want to kick my boss - he chucked two PDP11/23 clones >(but original boards inside) on the tip last year, as well as sone S100 >machine. I knew they'd have been worth something, but he's something of a >chuck-out maniac. We all have stories like that to tell :-/ Joe From hansp at aconit.org Sun Jan 12 22:05:00 2003 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay References: Message-ID: <3E223BD3.3050009@aconit.org> William Donzelli wrote: > Actually, I think RCS has most of the -12 docs anyway, in which case they > have been sent to Al a while back, in Al's possession now, or will be > sent to Al. > Same with RICM. I am not sure if any of the Temple doc stash has made it > west yet. OK, that takes care of the docs, but I think Al deserves all the support we can give him for his sterling work on acquring, preserving and (more importantly) scanning all that documentation. I would not begrudge him a new toy to play with ;-) -- hbp From kenziem at sympatico.ca Sun Jan 12 22:15:00 2003 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030113041806.YUTK8221.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> On Sunday 12 January 2003 21:50, you wrote: > On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > Oh, I don't think you'll lose too much sleep. Here's that person's last > > > > message to me: > > > ALSO, F--K U Isn't that the AOL short cut for send me all the archives in HTML format? From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jan 12 22:24:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: <20030113041806.YUTK8221.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Mike wrote: > On Sunday 12 January 2003 21:50, you wrote: > > On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > > Oh, I don't think you'll lose too much sleep. Here's that person's last > > > > > > message to me: > > > > ALSO, F--K U > > Isn't that the AOL short cut for send me all the archives in HTML format? You, sir, are a devious b*st*rd, and I bow most humbly before you. Doc From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Jan 12 22:59:00 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: References: <3E2226EC.4070702@aconit.org> Message-ID: <20030113052814.GB11233@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Brian Chase, from writings of Sun, Jan 12, 2003 at 07:23:13PM -0800: > I don't know; $5000 is a lot of money. That sucks. I don't recognize > the new high bidder's name at all. The chances are that we'll never see > copies of those docs now. The current high bidder is Bob Rosswell (sp?), the (current?) owner of System Source, one of those PeeCee sales places that have been helping Micro$oft screw the world... last I heard, several years ago, he was setting up some sort of display of old computers or something like that. I'm very sorry to hear that the bidding's gone so high, and taken this from something fun for hobbyists who will use, hack and preserve the system to a "museum piece" that those who will appreciate the sytem the most can't afford, which will probably see little, it any, use, and no use at all once it stops working if it gets used at all. :-( -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jss at subatomix.com Sun Jan 12 23:05:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: An original AOLuser In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <12779811793.20030112230854@subatomix.com> On Sunday, January 12, 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > [Luser wrote:] > > > ALSO, F--K U > > It seems that almost anybody who doesn't know how to UNSUBscribe from a > mailing list (that they SUBSCRIBEd to) is also overly prone to taking > offense. It isn't the first time, and it isn't the last time. ISTR there are several very respectable list members who are subscribed with an AOL address. Not all AOLers are lusers, but people like the one above certainly don't help kill the stereotype. Sigh. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Sun Jan 12 23:11:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: Mentec Hobbyist plans? In-Reply-To: <20030110144441.GX5260@mrbill.net> References: <20030110144441.GX5260@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <6480176547.20030112231458@subatomix.com> On Friday, January 10, 2003, Bill Bradford wrote: > Anybody know if Mentec (http://www.mentec-inc.com) has just dropped their > hobbyist licensing/cdrom plans? Nobody's asked this yet: Why did you ask that question? Did something give you the impression that the hobbyist program was in danger? -- Jeffrey Sharp From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Jan 12 23:24:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: <20030113052814.GB11233@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: Speaking of (n)ettiquette... > The current high bidder is Bob Rosswell (sp?), the (current?) owner of > System Source, one of those PeeCee sales places that have been helping > Micro$oft screw the world... last I heard, several years ago, he was > setting up some sort of display of old computers or something like > that. > > I'm very sorry to hear that the bidding's gone so high, and taken this > from something fun for hobbyists who will use, hack and preserve the > system to a "museum piece" that those who will appreciate the sytem > the most can't afford, which will probably see little, it any, use, > and no use at all once it stops working if it gets used at all. :-( It is *extremely* bad form to make public comments on bidders at *any* form of auction. It does not matter who they are or what they do. Internet or live, Sotheby's or Joe's Junk. Many bidder's really like to remain nameless. Some auctions house will actually throw you out if your comments are heard... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Jan 12 23:31:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: An original AOLuser In-Reply-To: <12779811793.20030112230854@subatomix.com> Message-ID: > It isn't the first time, and it isn't the last time. ISTR there are several > very respectable list members who are subscribed with an AOL address. Yes, and other people associated with AOL, as well. > Not > all AOLers are lusers, but people like the one above certainly don't help > kill the stereotype. Sigh. The AOL slamming that goes about on this list - indeed any of the AOL/Microsoft/Luser slamming - does not help our image either. Yes, folks, many people on the outside, including *many* respectable old computer collectors, do not have a very good opinion of this list... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Jan 12 23:33:01 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay References: Message-ID: <3E224FB7.1060306@jetnet.ab.ca> Considering the Going Cost of a PDP-12 was around $28,000 in 1969 getting it for 5,000 2003 dollars is cheap. Ben. From jss at subatomix.com Sun Jan 12 23:55:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: MicroNOVA on eBay Message-ID: <16482760062.20030112235802@subatomix.com> Um, someone needs to bid this idea right out of the seller's head: "Don't need the microNOVA? Then toss it and use the rack!" http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2300442901 Stirling, NJ. Pickup only. $1 init bid. I am not associated with the seller. -- Jeffrey Sharp From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 13 00:01:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I also instructed you to go to http://www.classiccmp.org, click on the "Mailing Lists" link at the top right of the page, then click on the cctalk link, then follow the instructions to unsubscribe. Nobody can do this for you. You must do it yourself. On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I sent this to you privately, but you aparently missed it: > > Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 13:34:22 -0500 (EST) > From: Patrick Finnegan > To: JOHNSOY@aol.com > Subject: Re: An original Compaq "portable" > > You need to send email to "cctalk-request@classiccmp.org" with a subject > of "unsubscribe" (without the quotes) in order to unsubscribe. > > Pat > -- > Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu > > > On Sun, 12 Jan 2003 JOHNSOY@aol.com wrote: > > > Look, > > Just tell me how to remove my name. Please. I can never give any information > > or help anyone. I am older and not interested. I have poor vision and to > > delete so many emails is more than I can deal with. Someone help me get > > unsubscribed...Please > > > > YVONNE > > Y > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 13 00:01:22 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: SEIKOSHA SP1000VC In-Reply-To: <3E1FD72F.9070705@usa.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, Peter K. wrote: > Hello there, for those interested I've got a SEIKOSHA SP1000VC with the > C-64 cable. It has not operated in many years since I sold my c-64 a > very long time ago. But it worked flawlessly and hasn't been dropped or > abused since. For those interested I am asking for the first good offer > over $40us. E-mail me if your interested. What is it? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From avickers at solutionengineers.com Mon Jan 13 01:26:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: Shark Update In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030112224347.00b5d930@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030113071522.01b4dd18@slave> At 23:25 12/01/2003, you wrote: > > >That figures... Maplin rarely have useful components in stock in the > > >shops any more. They were out of stock of 10k resistors one time I needed > > >them. > > > > They seem to have really gone downhill in the last few years; I suspect > the > > passing of Tandy has something to do with this - why should they care, > > there is no national competition. :( > >I heard a rumour (nothing more) that Maplin were now (part?) owned by the >old Tandy. Which probably explains why they now sell lo-fi, etc. Dunno about that, I know Tandy were subsumed into Carphone Warehouse, maybe Maplin got the cheapo hifi bit? > > >I am trying to work out why your soldering iron was not on your bench > > >where it should have been. Unless you had taken it somewhere for a field > > >repair, of course. > > > > Sad to say, I don't do anything like enough electronic > > assembly/disassembly. This is only the second time I've used the iron > since > >I don't do that much programming, but I know where gcc is :-) Yeah, but gcc lives on the computer, thus the furthest away it can ever get is a few button presses... My soldering iron (& assorted accessories) seem to have a life of their own, and find their way into all sorts of places... > > tried it again this morning the screen is just blank. I know the video > side > > is OK, as if you let the tube warm up, then power cycle it, you get the > > garbage characters for a second or so, then it clears to blank. I've > >Well, that means the CPU is running, and that it can access memory (and >that at least osme of the ROM is good). That's a step forward, surely... Definitely. I tried it with a couple of 3rd party ROMs out, but neither made a difference, so I don't think they're part of the problem. Or, if they are, it's an upstream problem to the one that's currently afflicting the machine. My further assumption is it's definitely a bit of silicon that's gone wrong, rather than anything on the power side. Unfortunately, I still don't have an EPROM burner/eraser, so even if it is a ROM that's gone funny, I can't do anything about it yet. Any ideas for a suitable model of device - ideally one which is relatively easy to use, can burn different sized packages, and will connect to a Windoze PC easily? > > re-seated all of the smaller chips to no avail; will try the big chips > > tomorrow, after that it's a crash-course in microelectronic diagnosis. > >I've had _many_ problems with bad IC sockets in PETs. I'd replace the lot >with turned-pin ones (I doubt Maplin still do these, if they do, they'll >never have them in stock, but RS and/or Farnell list them). I have an RS account, I'll probably get 'em from there - Farnell seem to charge some fantastically high prices for some of their stuff (e.g. 24-way 1.156" PCB edge connectors for ?17.00 each). Is there any mileage in getting a gas soldering iron with an IC block (i.e. one of those things which solders/desolders all pins in a socket at once), or will I be OK with my regular electric iron & a vacuum desolderer? >[6 pin DIN plug] > >Clean the pins with a contact file or (fine) wet-n-dry paper before you >start... Makes sense... > > won't grip, and you end up melting a pin right through the plastic. Grr. I > > mean, all they have to do is make the plastic bit out of bakalite - > problem > > solved. > >Or PTFE (which won't melt with a normal soldering iron). Or the >glass-fibre PCB material -- I managed to get some DIL headers that were >made of PCB substrate with pins inserted, and they were by far the >easiest to use of all I'd tried. They did not melt when soldered. Pity I >can't get any more... Presumably they'd only be useful for hobbyists, and perhaps too expensive to be mainstream. Annoyingly, about 8 years ago I could have purchased a complete industrial PCB production line, c/w solder baths, plating line, etc., for about ?5000. Unfortunately, not only did I not have ?5000, but I had nowhere to put it either. I can't help but think that solder bath would have been quite useful for removing IC sockets & the like... Mind you, I did get the PCB drill; a micromat CNC machine. One day, I'll put it all back together, at least I can drill my own PCBs then... [Fireball 3040] > > Hmm. It's presently unidentifiable (just a black smear on the circuit > >Sounds like a tantalum... Righto. > > Thing is, did the tantalum cap blow because it was old, or because > > something else was awry? > >Most likely because it's old. It was probably a supply decoupler. I've >had the odd one on a PCB explode, and the rest remain OK. No simple >electrical problem could cause that. That's what I was hoping you'd say :) >Have you tried the 3040 (after removing the remains of the capacitor). It >wouldn't suprise me if it still worked! Hmm, I'll give that a shot this afternoon I think. Cheers Tony - all useful stuff again! And you'll make me an electronics hobbyist yet :) -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From avickers at solutionengineers.com Mon Jan 13 01:30:01 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: Shark Update In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030112133540.0317da00@pop-server.socal.rr.com > References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030112001424.00b4d3c0@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030113073004.00bae218@slave> At 21:40 12/01/2003, you wrote: >>3) Does *anyone* make DIN plugs which don't melt if you bring a soldering >>iron within 5ft of them? >> >>4) Where's my coffee? > > >Coffee is an addiction and bad for you. Only if you can't live without it... I can, but I'm very grouchy in the morning without my wake-up coffee... >Plug the connector into a socket while you solder the pins. Keep the tip >clean and wet with solder, don't dick around, heat the connection, poke a >bit of solder at it, and leave it alone as soon as it flows. Use a good >quality iron. The socket is the only bit I've not tried (haven't got any to hand, but that's easy to fix). Where I mainly find the problem is getting the connecting wire into the right place & actually getting it to solder in in less time than it takes the plastic to melt... -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From ksk at ieee.org Mon Jan 13 01:47:00 2003 From: ksk at ieee.org (Steven Knudsen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: Looking for 8050 drive(s) Message-ID: <003b01c2bad8$9b6b2db0$812cb8a1@steven> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Steven Knudsen.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 621 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030113/930e5a49/StevenKnudsen.vcf From arcarlini at iee.org Mon Jan 13 03:32:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 /750 Diagnostics - new project In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030112202245.030c5da8@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <000f01c2bae7$1d472a10$cb87fe3e@athlon> >Do you have any tips for scanning books? Such as resolution, >color settings, etc... For most manuals 600dpi 1-bit (i.e. black and white) to G4 encoded TIFF and then wrapped up in PDF will do nicely. 300 dpi will probably do as well but I used 600dpi in the hope that future OCR technology will have a happier time with it. The G4 encoding just gets the size down even more and is not absolutely necessary. If colour is involved then page size shoots up. I've not yet found a good way of doing these. For some manuals the colour does not matter too much and those I've scanned in B&W. Where it did matter, I've tried OCRing the colour pages. This is obviously fairly time consuming. JPEG gets the page size down quite a bit but its effects on text are really quite bad. As for scanning books (that cannot be easily and reversibly dismantled) then you'll have to experiment. I found that scanning two pages at once (i.e. opening out flat and scanning) worked reasonably well. Post processing into LH and RH pages and stitching together was reasonably easy to semi-automate. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From amanise at mscn.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 13 04:59:35 2003 From: amanise at mscn.demon.co.uk (Adrian Manise) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: HP9000 Workstations Message-ID: <019201c2baf3$41e2d840$0501010a@l0h0n4> Hi Folks, Please forgive my ignorance in this respect, but are HP9000 series 300 and 700 workstations considered classic computers yet. The ones I'm thinking of were new around about 1992, and are pretty well complete - although the owner can't get them to boot now. You might have seen my list of stuff I posted here last week - same stuff. I thought I'd better make a posting asking a bit more about their classic status now - since I didn't get a single expression of interest in the equipment. Are they desirable at all - or just old boxes? The lack of interest might have been because I stated thet they were uk based, do any other Brits subscribe to this list? So many questions, so little time.... Seriously, if anyone can spare a few minutes to steer me in the right direction on getting rid of these things I'd really appreciate it. Many thanks Adrian Manise -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030113/fd3ce448/attachment.html From djg at drs-esg.com Mon Jan 13 07:17:00 2003 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: Anybody near Bremerton, Washington? Message-ID: <200301131320.IAA11679@drs-esg.com> I have been looking for a Calcomp incremental plotter and found one in Bremerton, Washington but it is pickup only. Since I'm on the other coast that isn't too practical. Is anybody nearby that might be interested in picking it up and mailing it FedEx ground to me for some $? Thanks, David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights. From mhaffely at katun.com Mon Jan 13 08:12:24 2003 From: mhaffely at katun.com (Michael Haffely) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: DOS 1.0 Message-ID: I found an IBM M$-DOS 1.0 manual (no disks sadly) It comes in a three ring binder, and is quite funny to read, esp the errata. ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. ********************************************************************** From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Mon Jan 13 08:47:00 2003 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Doc Shipley wrote: > On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Mike wrote: > > On Sunday 12 January 2003 21:50, you wrote: > > > On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > > > Oh, I don't think you'll lose too much sleep. Here's that person's last > > > > > > > > message to me: > > > > > ALSO, F--K U > > > > Isn't that the AOL short cut for send me all the archives in HTML format? > > You, sir, are a devious b*st*rd, and I bow most humbly before you. I really hate it when you guys make me snort beverages onto my keyboard! From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Jan 13 08:47:47 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: Old machine photos Message-ID: Foil, or any metallic reflector, can produce hot spots. A large piece of white poster board works better. A trick for photographing reflective surfaces is to use a black sheet _in front of_ the subject, and shoot with the lens sticking through a hole in the sheet. In this way, you don't get your own reflection in the picture. Hair spray also works, but might be hard to clean off. Spray laundry starch might also work, but I haven't tried it. Watch for glare off chip surfaces, which can make part numbers unreadable. The trick is to have the light coming in at an angle that does not reflect into the lens. A common setup is two (or 4) lights, one on either side, at a 45 degree angle (with the camera perpendicular to the subject). In this way, the fall-off from the light on one side is balanced by the opposite fall-off of the light on the other side, so the illumination is even across the subject. For 3D objects, it is customary to have the (brightest) light coming from the upper left, so the shadows are on the lower right. Sean's last comment is a good one -- keep taking pictures until you get good ones. The only added cost is in your time, but then why take the time to produce a poor picture? -----Original Message----- From: Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner [mailto:spc@conman.org] Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 10:03 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Old machine photos > The goal is to light the computer well and > eliminate glare - especially on screens. A large piece of cardboard covered in aluminum foil makes a good reflector, and to reduce glare on monitors you may want to try hairspray. Professional photographers use it to reduce glare on glasses so it might be worth trying on a monitor if you don't think it'll hurt it. If it's a digital camera, go wild with the pictures. Take lots of pictures; more than you think you need. Then select the best from the lot. Why not? It's not like you have to pay for developing the pictures. -spc (Go for quantity, then select for quality ... ) From allain at panix.com Mon Jan 13 09:39:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 /750 Diagnostics - new project References: <000f01c2bae7$1d472a10$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: <009401c2bb1a$4acd2f60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > If colour is involved then page size shoots up... > JPEG gets the page size down quite a bit but its > effects on text are really quite bad. Something probably should be said for GIF. This format is good for images with 16 or 256 different levels of color and won't spatially filter (IE distort high freqency detail) anything when the number or colors is within these bounds. It's always good when you can discretize the number of saved colors of the image to the number of printed colors. For example B&W as two levels, and B&W with a two color illustration as 4 levels, otherwise known as a 4 color lookup table. All of these things can be done lossless with GIF. John A. From livewire at netadel.com Mon Jan 13 09:40:14 2003 From: livewire at netadel.com (Live Wire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: HP9000 Workstations References: <019201c2baf3$41e2d840$0501010a@l0h0n4> Message-ID: <001501c2bb1a$84cc23b0$1e01a8c0@netadelxp> I actually still use some 700 series (735) and C180's at work. The 735's make nice XTerminals and the C180's are good for software testing since you can run 9.x - 11i on them safely. I'm no expert on the subject at all, but I can tell you they are usable in a work environment. The 300's on the other hand, if they don't qualify by age, they certainly should by physical design :) ----- Original Message ----- From: Adrian Manise To: cctech@classiccmp.org Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 2:27 AM Subject: HP9000 Workstations Hi Folks, Please forgive my ignorance in this respect, but are HP9000 series 300 and 700 workstations considered classic computers yet. The ones I'm thinking of were new around about 1992, and are pretty well complete - although the owner can't get them to boot now. You might have seen my list of stuff I posted here last week - same stuff. I thought I'd better make a posting asking a bit more about their classic status now - since I didn't get a single expression of interest in the equipment. Are they desirable at all - or just old boxes? The lack of interest might have been because I stated thet they were uk based, do any other Brits subscribe to this list? So many questions, so little time.... Seriously, if anyone can spare a few minutes to steer me in the right direction on getting rid of these things I'd really appreciate it. Many thanks Adrian Manise -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030113/db54f5d9/attachment.html From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Mon Jan 13 09:42:00 2003 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:19 2005 Subject: Eurobeeb finds Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0DFBC5@lif015.merlincommunications.com> Before the new year I had a lead on some parts and said I would reveal what they were after I won or lost the bid on them. Well I won. What I got was a lot of EuroBeeb cards and parts. For those that don't know the EuroBeeb was a BBC Micro compatible computer but in a EuroCard (160mm x 100mm) format. As well as the standard CPU, VDU and I/O cards theer are a lot of digital I/O cards, analog I/O cards and some specials such as EPROM programmers. I also got the documentation for all the cards, the only thing I'm short of is some of the system software. For those who want to look there are some pictures at .. http://members.lycos.co.uk/leeedavison/6502/eurobeeb/score/index.html Cheers, Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 13 09:59:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? In-Reply-To: <009101c2b9d0$a40c2270$7a00a8c0@themillers> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, Nick Miller wrote: > Just curious. In what other marketplace can you ignore the 10 highest and > the 10 lowest prices on an interesting vintage computer and have anything > left to average? I would be thrilled if there were 30 Commodore 65, Atari > 1450XLD or SOL-20 sales in a year to determine their value, but I don't > think that's going to ever happen. If you significantly stretch out the That is correct. And therefore, eBay will never be a useful tool for determining average value of a specific collectible computer due to the way the eBay auction mechanism encourages overbidding. > time frame you are averaging over you are going to smooth over important > events affecting the value of vintage computer equipment. As an interested This is not guaranteed, especially with some of the outrageous prices that have been paid for some machines there. Like, for instance, a $1000 TRS-80 Model 1. > party I plan on buying Mike and Sellam's book but we have to realize that It's Mike's book ;) > eBay has an impact on the value of our collections and while like most rabid > collectors the dollar value of my collection is not what is important to me > it certainly will be important if I ever have to deal with my insurance > agent. It's fine for insurance purposes perhaps, but not for trading computers. Look, if one wants to live in an eBay world where you buy and sell exclusively there then one is welcome to live in that other-dimensional economy. But in the real world, I don't want eBay prices to be affecting the value of a computer, especially when it threatens to drive the price up to ridiculous levels on common machines. > As for eBay, the last time I checked the eBay dollars I was spending and > being paid in were worth the same as the dollars my employer is paying me On the average, you are paying a premium by way of the inflated sale price that each auction ends at. > every week. I would not have been able to acquire the 300+ computers I have > if it were not for eBay. Newsgroups and mailing lists are great for sharing > ideas, offering assistance and making contacts but they are really a pretty > poor way to buy, sell and trade interesting vintage computers. I for one am > damn thankful eBay is as successful as it is. That's funny, I acquired most of the 1,700+ computers I have through newsgroups and mailing lists, plus flea markets, thrift stores, electronic surplus stores, etc. Probably less than 20 were acquired through eBay. Computer collecting on eBay is like going big game trophy hunting in a wild animal reserve. It's fun, and you bag the big ones, but you are certainly paying for the privelege of the easy score. I prefer to hunt out in the wild. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 13 10:07:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: NextCube --- Take it or leave it? In-Reply-To: <000c01c2ba9f$57735da0$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, J.C.Wren wrote: > I have an opportunity to trade a ThinkPad laptop straight across for a > N1000 NextCube, complete with monitor, mouse, keyboard, etc. The unit is in > good shape, and functions. I haven't had a lot of time to do research, so I > thought I'd ask the experts. Is this worth messing with? The laptop has > little value to me, and the shipping on the monitor (from Denver to Atlanta) > could be a tad painful. I'm not hurting for a NextCube, but it might be an > interesting item to toss in the warehouse until I get a house again. Yes, worth the trade. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 13 10:11:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: <10469567813.20030112201810@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Sunday, January 12, 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > I'll miss the little HTML heart in her pink signature. It added a gentle > > touch that is so often missing from this list. > > Oh, I don't think you'll lose too much sleep. Here's that person's last > message to me: I certainly won't miss all that fricking UPPERCASE whining. "I CAN'T UNSUBSCRIBE! OH WOE IS ME! I'M TOO OLD TO UNSUBSCRIBE! SOMEONE DO IT FOR ME!" Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 13 10:12:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: <3E2226EC.4070702@aconit.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Hans B Pufal wrote: > Seems like Al has been outbid, is it time to set up a subscription to > support Al in snagging the machine? I'd be up to subscribing $50 toward > such a project. Me too. I'll pledge $30 to Al ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 13 10:13:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, William Donzelli wrote: > That IBM 650 on Ebay a while back did not gather anywhere near this much > attention... There was an IBM 650 on eBay!? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From marvin at rain.org Mon Jan 13 10:15:01 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? References: Message-ID: <3E22E6A6.94FAED8D@rain.org> I've found the best way to get a realistic price on an ebay item is to go to the bid history and look at the the pricing on the third bidder down. And Ebay IS a *most* useful tool for finding what the value is to most people; you just can't use the final bid price all the time. Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, Nick Miller wrote: > > > Just curious. In what other marketplace can you ignore the 10 highest and > > the 10 lowest prices on an interesting vintage computer and have anything > > left to average? I would be thrilled if there were 30 Commodore 65, Atari > > 1450XLD or SOL-20 sales in a year to determine their value, but I don't > > think that's going to ever happen. If you significantly stretch out the > > That is correct. And therefore, eBay will never be a useful tool for > determining average value of a specific collectible computer due to the > way the eBay auction mechanism encourages overbidding. > > > time frame you are averaging over you are going to smooth over important > > events affecting the value of vintage computer equipment. As an interested > > This is not guaranteed, especially with some of the outrageous prices that > have been paid for some machines there. Like, for instance, a $1000 > TRS-80 Model 1. > > > party I plan on buying Mike and Sellam's book but we have to realize that > > It's Mike's book ;) > > > eBay has an impact on the value of our collections and while like most rabid > > collectors the dollar value of my collection is not what is important to me > > it certainly will be important if I ever have to deal with my insurance > > agent. > > It's fine for insurance purposes perhaps, but not for trading computers. > Look, if one wants to live in an eBay world where you buy and sell > exclusively there then one is welcome to live in that other-dimensional > economy. But in the real world, I don't want eBay prices to be affecting > the value of a computer, especially when it threatens to drive the price > up to ridiculous levels on common machines. > > > As for eBay, the last time I checked the eBay dollars I was spending and > > being paid in were worth the same as the dollars my employer is paying me > > On the average, you are paying a premium by way of the inflated sale price > that each auction ends at. > > > every week. I would not have been able to acquire the 300+ computers I have > > if it were not for eBay. Newsgroups and mailing lists are great for sharing > > ideas, offering assistance and making contacts but they are really a pretty > > poor way to buy, sell and trade interesting vintage computers. I for one am > > damn thankful eBay is as successful as it is. > > That's funny, I acquired most of the 1,700+ computers I have through > newsgroups and mailing lists, plus flea markets, thrift stores, electronic > surplus stores, etc. Probably less than 20 were acquired through eBay. > > Computer collecting on eBay is like going big game trophy hunting in a > wild animal reserve. It's fun, and you bag the big ones, but you are > certainly paying for the privelege of the easy score. > > I prefer to hunt out in the wild. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 13 10:16:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Brian Chase wrote: > I don't know; $5000 is a lot of money. That sucks. I don't recognize the > new high bidder's name at all. The chances are that we'll never see > copies of those docs now. Don't be so dour. System Source has been building a computer museum for years now (mostly through eBay it would seem). Check out their website: http://www.syssrc.com/html/museum/index.html I believe they used to have the collection on public display from their office. They're doing an awesome job documenting all this. I'll bet if you inquired they would be willing to make copies of the documenation, or scan it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jan 13 10:20:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > There was an IBM 650 on eBay!? Two or so years ago - complete with the power unit. Only two bidders, final bid was $4900. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Jan 13 10:28:00 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > On Sunday, January 12, 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > > I'll miss the little HTML heart in her pink signature. It added a gentle > > > touch that is so often missing from this list. > > > > Oh, I don't think you'll lose too much sleep. Here's that person's last > > message to me: > > I certainly won't miss all that fricking UPPERCASE whining. > > "I CAN'T UNSUBSCRIBE! OH WOE IS ME! I'M TOO OLD TO UNSUBSCRIBE! SOMEONE > DO IT FOR ME!" > *BANG* Unsubscribe complete. g. :) From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 13 10:28:20 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? In-Reply-To: <3E22E6A6.94FAED8D@rain.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Marvin Johnston wrote: > I've found the best way to get a realistic price on an ebay item is to > go to the bid history and look at the the pricing on the third bidder > down. And Ebay IS a *most* useful tool for finding what the value is to > most people; you just can't use the final bid price all the time. And as long as you're planning to buy or sell the item in question ON eBay. The next guy at a flea market to tell me "I can get $X for it on eBay" is going to get bitch-slapped. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 13 10:29:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, William Donzelli wrote: > > There was an IBM 650 on eBay!? > > Two or so years ago - complete with the power unit. > > Only two bidders, final bid was $4900. That's low. Even for two years ago. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From MTPro at aol.com Mon Jan 13 10:32:00 2003 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" Message-ID: <6BA81EB6.73BC0168.0000EF7A@aol.com> In a message dated 1/13/2003 12:55:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, cctalk-request@classiccmp.org writes: > YA AOL luser. LART, anyone? Hi Jeffrey, I just couldn't pass up responding to this from you. Prejudice is prejudice and it is wrong. You cannot stereotype any group of people, yeah, not even AOL users. You owe me and other decent AOL users on the list an apology. This is arrogance pure and simple Mr. high and mighty "subatomix" user. Best, David From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jan 13 10:43:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > That's low. Even for two years ago. Well, too high for me, anyway. I was just starting the business back then, and could not spend anything near that money. Just an observation - this does show how DECcentric this list (and really, most of the big iron retrocomputing folks) is. There have been a few things pop up like this, on Ebay and elsewhere, but because they were not from Digital, little attention was given to them. Huge demand outweighs the supply side. I suppose (PDP-12s actually are not all THAT rare). William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From marvin at rain.org Mon Jan 13 10:47:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? References: Message-ID: <3E22EE33.1BE12057@rain.org> Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > I've found the best way to get a realistic price on an ebay item is to > > go to the bid history and look at the the pricing on the third bidder > > down. And Ebay IS a *most* useful tool for finding what the value is to > > most people; you just can't use the final bid price all the time. > > And as long as you're planning to buy or sell the item in question ON > eBay. Ebay is a retail venue; most people don't expect wholesale prices at Sears :). And there *have* been some *incredible* buys on Ebay. Someone I know bought an item on Ebay that just happened to be one of the two known prototype motors built by Tesla. I don't recall the pricing but I think it was less than $100. And for someone who either doesn't have or who doesn't want to take the time to do their own treasure hunting, Ebay is an excellent choice. And the prices are mostly reasonable. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Jan 13 10:59:01 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay References: Message-ID: <3E22F096.8070601@jetnet.ab.ca> William Donzelli wrote: >>That's low. Even for two years ago. > > > Well, too high for me, anyway. I was just starting the business back > then, and could not spend anything near that money. > > Just an observation - this does show how DECcentric this list (and > really, most of the big iron retrocomputing folks) is. There have been a > few things pop up like this, on Ebay and elsewhere, but because they were > not from Digital, little attention was given to them. Huge demand > outweighs the supply side. I suppose (PDP-12s actually are not all THAT > rare). I think it said 750 made from the PDP-8 FAQ. Compare that to the thousands of PDP-8's and Tens of thousands of PDP-11's. Ben. From amanise at mscn.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 13 11:17:50 2003 From: amanise at mscn.demon.co.uk (Adrian Manise) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: HP9000 Workstations References: <019201c2baf3$41e2d840$0501010a@l0h0n4> <001501c2bb1a$84cc23b0$1e01a8c0@netadelxp> Message-ID: <01ae01c2bb28$1aa06380$0501010a@l0h0n4> Thanks, the 700 series is a 710. One of the first ones I think. We were early adopters in those days. I'm sure it would make a good router or something. Cheers anyway, Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: Live Wire To: cctech@classiccmp.org Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 3:43 PM Subject: Re: HP9000 Workstations I actually still use some 700 series (735) and C180's at work. The 735's make nice XTerminals and the C180's are good for software testing since you can run 9.x - 11i on them safely. I'm no expert on the subject at all, but I can tell you they are usable in a work environment. The 300's on the other hand, if they don't qualify by age, they certainly should by physical design :) ----- Original Message ----- From: Adrian Manise To: cctech@classiccmp.org Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 2:27 AM Subject: HP9000 Workstations Hi Folks, Please forgive my ignorance in this respect, but are HP9000 series 300 and 700 workstations considered classic computers yet. The ones I'm thinking of were new around about 1992, and are pretty well complete - although the owner can't get them to boot now. You might have seen my list of stuff I posted here last week - same stuff. I thought I'd better make a posting asking a bit more about their classic status now - since I didn't get a single expression of interest in the equipment. Are they desirable at all - or just old boxes? The lack of interest might have been because I stated thet they were uk based, do any other Brits subscribe to this list? So many questions, so little time.... Seriously, if anyone can spare a few minutes to steer me in the right direction on getting rid of these things I'd really appreciate it. Many thanks Adrian Manise -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030113/d0994e79/attachment.html From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jan 13 11:19:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: <3E22F096.8070601@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: > I think it said 750 made from the PDP-8 FAQ. That has nothing to do with how many survived. > Compare that to the thousands of PDP-8's and Tens > of thousands of PDP-11's. One day at RCS, we went over just how many surviving PDP-12s we know about. The number was somewhere above 20, maybe up around 25. These numbers did not include the one just on Ebay, or the three that were pulled out of Temple a few years back. By now, the number of survivors might be around 30 - a fine showing for such a large machine. There actually may be more PDP-12s out there today than there are PDP-8s or PDP-8/Is. Certainly more than the PDP-8/S or LINC-8 machines. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 13 11:32:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, William Donzelli wrote: > > That's low. Even for two years ago. > > Well, too high for me, anyway. I was just starting the business back > then, and could not spend anything near that money. Me too. But it is what I would consider a deserved price. > Just an observation - this does show how DECcentric this list (and > really, most of the big iron retrocomputing folks) is. There have been a > few things pop up like this, on Ebay and elsewhere, but because they were > not from Digital, little attention was given to them. Huge demand > outweighs the supply side. I suppose (PDP-12s actually are not all THAT > rare). Actually, this is borne out of ignorance (not necessarily meant to be insulting) of the overall computing scene of the past 50 years. People in general just don't know their history, and don't put in the effort to learn it either, so the sheep effect drives up prices on high profile things (Altair 8800, PDP-8, etc.) while more technically or historically interesting pieces get overlooked. I say, good. If it means someday I might be able to get an IBM 650 for a song, that's fine. I'll then use that score to tell a story about a significant machine, and then perhaps raise its profile ;) I don't think the list is inherently DECcentric. The list is collectively what its members are. There are more DEC-heads than IBMers here. Get some more IBMers on board and even it out. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 13 11:36:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? In-Reply-To: <3E22EE33.1BE12057@rain.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Marvin Johnston wrote: > Ebay is a retail venue; most people don't expect wholesale prices at > Sears :). And there *have* been some *incredible* buys on Ebay. Someone I'll agree with that. Just like in the real world, sometimes you stumble upon great bargains. You also come across some real wishful thinking. But those bargain or inflated prices should not have a bearing on what the mean value of an item is. On the whole, eBay prices are inflated. Everyone knows this. > I know bought an item on Ebay that just happened to be one of the two > known prototype motors built by Tesla. I don't recall the pricing but I > think it was less than $100. ! > And for someone who either doesn't have or who doesn't want to take the > time to do their own treasure hunting, Ebay is an excellent choice. And > the prices are mostly reasonable. Sometimes. But then there's cost of shipping and the uncertainty factor of now knowing exactly what you're getting until it's in your hands. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Jan 13 11:39:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay) References: Message-ID: <005301c2bb2a$e94c2fa0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I curse this day --> Back in college (many years ago, about 1983, before I got into collecting), I went to the apartment of a fellow compsci major to quell some beer. In the middle of his living room was a complete IBM system 3, in perfectly mint condition. He told me I could have it if I could get it out of there. Idiot me said "You gotta be kidding - no thanks". *SIGH* --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Mon Jan 13 11:50:01 2003 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: Anybody near Bremerton, Washington? In-Reply-To: <200301131320.IAA11679@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: <3E228B35.3205.182E816A@localhost> From: David Gesswein To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Anybody near Bremerton, Washington? Send reply to: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date sent: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 08:20:04 -0500 > I have been looking for a Calcomp incremental plotter and found one > in Bremerton, Washington but it is pickup only. Since I'm on the > other coast that isn't too practical. Is anybody nearby that might be > interested in picking it up and mailing it FedEx ground to me for some > $? If I had a working car I would do it since I'm in Bremerton. Unfortunately, I'm limited to walking and bussing at the moment. -- Scarletdown From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Mon Jan 13 12:09:00 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: DOS 1.0 References: Message-ID: <003301c2bb2f$6345c8d0$434a1942@starfury> Hmm... In the '80s, almost everything came in small, tabbed 3-ring binders, and were all quite funny to read! :) Does anyone remember Peach Text, Peach Calc, WordStar or any of the other infantile office software? They all had 'em... Cheers... Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Haffely" To: Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 08:06 AM Subject: Re: DOS 1.0 > I found an IBM M$-DOS 1.0 manual (no disks sadly) > > It comes in a three ring binder, and is quite funny to read, esp the errata. > > > > ********************************************************************** > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they > are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify > the system manager. > ********************************************************************** > From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Mon Jan 13 12:13:00 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: DOS 3.20 References: <200301130001.SAA09649@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <004401c2bb2f$e88fcb30$434a1942@starfury> Lawrence I'm just tall enough to be shrinking again... 'Happens when ya gets "over the hill..." Anyways, what would the package be worth to you? And, does it have the manuals? (BTW: Are you related to Gen. Curtis LeMay?) Cheers! Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 06:01 PM Subject: Re: DOS 3.20 > Well, I have an IBM DOS 3.30 right here. Still in its original shrinkwrap. > Just how tall are you? > > -Lawrence LeMay > lemay@cs.umn.edu > > > I believe DOS 3.20 is what I was looking for. It came as original software > > for a Packard Bell 386/12T (don't remember the specific model name), and I > > used the accompanying book to teach myself DOS programming -- back in > > 1991... The system had dual floppies (both sizes), a small hard drive, no > > sound except for the system speaker, and one of the first mass production > > .25 dpi monitors. I paid through the nose for the system at the time, but > > I'd likely give an arm and a leg for that old DOS manual... > > > > Cheers! > > > > Ed > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 08:55 PM > > Subject: Re: Old (5.25") PC software > > > > > > > On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Ed Tillman wrote: > > > > I dunno about these, but would anyone happen to have a copy of DOS 2.x > > or > > > > 3.x (2.3 and/or 3.2 maybe) on 3.5 disks, nd with the accompanying user > > text > > > > book? Some of the information in those old texts is still applicable, > > but > > > > can't be found anywhere... > > > > > > There ain't no sech thing as 2.3 > > > > > > 2.xx was only available with 3.5" support in specially modified versions > > > for certain specific brands of machines (usually in version 2.11). Even > > > the disk format isn't standardized on those. > > > > > > 3.20 (internally it thinks that it is three point twenty, NOT two), is the > > > first version that includes 3.5" support (720K) without special machine > > > specific modifications. > > > > > > 2.11 and 3.31 are only available in versions that were intended for > > > specific machines. 'Course in most cases, the only thing that is > > > different is the code in MODE.COM, and sometimes FORMAT. > > > > > > If you have a machine with specific peculiarities, 3.31 is the hot setup. > > > > > > > > > > > From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Mon Jan 13 12:15:00 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: DOS 3.20 References: <1042395939.4174.19.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <005701c2bb30$35e0e270$434a1942@starfury> Ouch! I went and looked, but the page said the auction had already ended... So, I'm still a-lookin'... Cheers! Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey H. Ingber" To: Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 12:25 PM Subject: RE: DOS 3.20 > On Sun, 2003-01-12 at 12:55, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Tillman, Edward wrote: > > > > > Any ideas where to find one now though? > > Right here: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=2087803161 > > Jeff > > > > > Try a local thrift store. If you don't find the manual you're looking > > for, you may just find a good book on MS-DOS that has similar information. > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > > > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jan 13 12:19:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> outweighs the supply side. I suppose (PDP-12s actually are not all THAT >> rare). True, there are at least two of them locally (unfortunatly/fortunatly, none of them are in my possession, or available). >I don't think the list is inherently DECcentric. The list is collectively >what its members are. There are more DEC-heads than IBMers here. Get >some more IBMers on board and even it out. Could it by chance have something to do with the size of the systems, and the avaialability of the Operating Systems and software (and even documentation)? I know that in my case that's the reason for my interest in DEC over IBM. It's more practical to concentrate on DEC. For example, I pretty much always pick up any documentation I can find, I've got probably 5-7 full size bookcases full of DEC documentation (that doesn't include microfiche and electronic format). For IBM, I've got maybe a third of one shelf. For DG, I've got a three-ring binder. Admitadly, I look for DEC doc's, but still even more of it's found me, than I've found of the other stuff. OTOH, the first two pieces of my classic computer collection are IBM, a hand-held card punch (still in almost prefect condition), and a wierd magtape. I've had both for 20-30 years. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From bones at northrock.bm Mon Jan 13 12:27:00 2003 From: bones at northrock.bm (Dennis Eldridge) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay References: <20030113002100.88980.23710.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <000a01c2bb31$55293230$0149030a@mohg.com> You know you're (I'm) a geek when you're interested in buying CD's with high rez pix of naked computers . I too would love to have a copy of the CD - I wonder if he'd entertain the possibility of selling *that* on it's own... Dennis From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jan 13 12:37:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Could it by chance have something to do with the size of the systems, and > the avaialability of the Operating Systems and software (and even > documentation)? Yes, certainly. DECs have mostly been run by bunches of grad students, nutty profs, wacko scientists, all natural packrats. IBMs, as well as the rest of the BUNCH, are run by suits. Very different cultures. > For example, I pretty much always pick up any documentation I can find, > I've got probably 5-7 full size bookcases full of DEC documentation (that > doesn't include microfiche and electronic format). For IBM, I've got maybe > a third of one shelf. For DG, I've got a three-ring binder. Admitadly, I > look for DEC doc's, but still even more of it's found me, than I've found > of the other stuff. Docs do not seem to be the issue - DAC, IBM, DG, it all seems to have survived well. If you look for IBM docs, you can get just as overloaded. > OTOH, the first two pieces of my classic computer collection are IBM, a > hand-held card punch (still in almost prefect condition), and a wierd > magtape. I've had both for 20-30 years. What is the magtape? William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Jan 13 12:37:25 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: DOS 1.0 Message-ID: Those binders usually had useful information in them. And at least there was printed documentation, as opposed to today. As to the software, I wold hardly call it "infantile." Limited, perhaps. But remember what programs such as WordStar ran under (64KB RAM for CP/M and program code). I had WordStar on one 90KB SSSD disk on my Osborne 1, and could put 20 pages of text on another disk, and do real work. SuperCalc came on another 90KB disk. Try to do that with MS bloatware. -----Original Message----- From: Ed Tillman [mailto:ETILLMAN@satx.rr.com] Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 12:13 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org; cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: DOS 1.0 Hmm... In the '80s, almost everything came in small, tabbed 3-ring binders, and were all quite funny to read! :) Does anyone remember Peach Text, Peach Calc, WordStar or any of the other infantile office software? They all had 'em... Cheers... Ed From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jan 13 12:46:01 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay) In-Reply-To: <005301c2bb2a$e94c2fa0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: > I curse this day --> Back in college (many years ago, about 1983, before I > got into collecting), I went to the apartment of a fellow compsci major to > quell some beer. In the middle of his living room was a complete IBM system > 3, in perfectly mint condition. He told me I could have it if I could get it > out of there. Idiot me said "You gotta be kidding - no thanks". *SIGH* This seems to be a good test to see if you are an official old-timer in the computer collecting hobby - passing up a free machine that today people would kill for. I have been there, many times (IBM, Amdahl, DG). How about others? William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From nicko at hal-pc.org Mon Jan 13 12:55:00 2003 From: nicko at hal-pc.org (nicko@hal-pc.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay Message-ID: > On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Hans B Pufal wrote: > > > Zane H. Healy wrote: > > >>It looks like Al Kossow is the high bidder now, and he surpased the > > > > > This is one system I *REALLY* hope he gets! I want to see scan's of some > > > of those manuals :^) > > > > Seems like Al has been outbid, is it time to set up a subscription to > > support Al in snagging the machine? I'd be up to subscribing $50 toward > > such a project. > > Is it only me, or does that listing look like hammered crap in > Mozilla? I'm on my laptop, which runs at 1400x1050 only, so I have the > fonts juked up to 14pt. The text runs right over the bidding frame and > most of the pics. > It's not the font size either - I turned my fonts down to 10 pt. and > no joy. > > Doc > Me to! Had to resort to IE to be able to read the whole page. -nick From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jan 13 12:55:23 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: HP9000 Workstations In-Reply-To: <019201c2baf3$41e2d840$0501010a@l0h0n4> Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Adrian Manise Sent: 13 January 2003 10:27 To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: HP9000 Workstations >Please forgive my ignorance in this respect, but are HP9000 series 300 and 700 workstations considered classic computers yet. The ones I'm thinking of were new around about 1992, and are pretty well complete - although the owner can't get them to boot now. You might have seen my list of stuff I posted here last week - same stuff. The list used to concentrate on stuff older than 10 years old, so you're OK. I've got a 9000-400 (I think) in a cupboard somewhere, but the only reason I got it was it came with a multisync 19" monitor which was summat I didn't have in 2000 :) Pity it got damaged when I was crashed into whilst driving home and I still haven't got round to fixing it yet. If anyone wants it they can have it. There's a v.poor 'taken-with-old-digital-camera-in-poor-light' picture of it here: http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/hp/hpapollo.jpg. >Are they desirable at all - or just old boxes? The lack of interest might have been because I stated thet they were uk based, do any other Brits subscribe to this list? It's just a box to me; like I say, I picked it up because of the monitor. There's maybe half a dozen of us who are active posters and who knows how many lurkers..... cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From collector at email.it Mon Jan 13 12:55:40 2003 From: collector at email.it (Collector) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: [for sale] IBM 5100 + IBM 5120 Message-ID: <001801c2bb01$85769de0$c7921c97@duron1200> For sale: IBM 5100 + manuals + cassette http://www.inversewave.com/vintage/ibm5100.zip IBM 5120 http://www.inversewave.com/vintage/ibm5120.zip regards, From Roy_Edenfield at engelhard.com Mon Jan 13 12:55:58 2003 From: Roy_Edenfield at engelhard.com (Roy_Edenfield@engelhard.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: Fortran Coding Form Message-ID: If you still have these, I would like to have them. Please let me know. > I found a stack (3) of 'Fortran Coding Form' pads with an IBM logo, > GX28-7327-6 U/M 050, Printed in the USA. Legal size (8x17)Nice light > green, one stack is pretty nice, the others show a little yellowing. > Don't know what dates these were available for. The lab I found these at > was created in 1973, so that's a good limit for the 'Wayback machine'. > > I assume these are what Fortran coders would arrange their code on before > translating the code into the paperpunches. > > Header fields are Program, Programmer, Date, Punching Instructions > (Graphic or Punch), Page Of, Card Electro Number. > > The main area is headed up with Comm (comment?), Statement Number, Cont > (continue?), Fortran Statement, Identification Sequence, followed but > miscellaneous squares numbered from 1 to 80. > > Asterisked comments at the bottom are "A standard card form, IBM 888157, > is available for punching statements from this form" and "Number of forms > per pad may vary slightly". [snicker- especially if you pulled a few out!] > > Anyone want For Free? I imagine it'd be a cool prop material for your > classic cmp. I'll stuff it in an envelope and send it out bookrate. > > L From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Jan 13 12:56:15 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: Osborne OCC1 Message-ID: Glen, Attached is a ZIP file with two JPEG images that are scans of pages from the Osborne 1 Technical Manual that relate to the PS and wiring. They might be useful to you. Bob -----Original Message----- From: acme@ao.net [mailto:acme@ao.net] Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 4:03 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Re: Osborne OCC1 From: Joe To: Glen Goodwin Subject: Re: Osborne OCC1 Date: 01/08/2003 7:55 AM > I recently had an OCC-1 that blew something in the PSU. That odd thing was > at it kept working! I wasn't really intersted in it so I gave it to Glen Good > . I expect that he'll troubleshoot/repai > r it soon. Okay, Joe, I get the hint ;>) I'll take a look at it this weekend -- should be a quick and easy fix. Later -- Glen 0/0 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: OCC1.zip Type: application/octet-stream Size: 184161 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030113/99673b23/OCC1.obj From rob at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Mon Jan 13 12:56:42 2003 From: rob at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030112230046.76ff9e52@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030112004826.0287b008@pop.freeserve.net> <3.0.6.16.20030112183839.0f375f58@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <10212131006.ZM6193@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3.0.6.16.20021212074044.3b8fdf5e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20021212194332.0f477346@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030112180934.02876ff8@pop.freeserve.net> At 23:00 12/01/2003 +0000, you wrote: > Got it working about three hours ago. Since then I've been reading the > docs (online) and trying out everything. It's very different from most US > computers and the keyboard layout is STRANGE! lol - it was hard getting used to a PC keyboard after using a BBC for years; and I did like the arrows+copy concept of being able to cut+paste text from anywhere on the screen. >you can key *HELP for a list of installed ROMs, and other > >accessible system commands. > > Cool! Thanks for the tip. I tried it and got: > > DFS 1.00 > DFS > Utils > > NFS 3.40 > > View A2.1 > Stored > Cmode > > OS A1.0 ok; you can key *HELP .... (any of the headers or indented options) for a list of commands and their syntax - these are handled by the support ROMS - the BBC had (generally) 32K of RAM, 16K of operating system (the OS rom) and up to 16 pageable 16K application / language ROMs (basic machine had space for four). Each ROM could service *.. commands - many are languages, or applicatations posing as languages (eg View word processor) or are toolkit or support ROMs. There are hundreds if not thousands available. Newer machines and add-on boards provided RAM in this location, into which ROM images could be loaded off disc instead. > > > >I recently sold an American beeb that had been converted back to British > >specs. Interesting piece. I've also got a German one (also with a dodgy > >PSU) that is pretty much the same. The "normal" British ones didn't have > >any of the heavy metal screening around the case. > > > > Any idea how many were exported to the US or how many were > re-imported to the UK? No idea, I'm afraid, though this page may help: http://8bs.com/see/iss1ad.jpg See http://8bs.com/ for front page - excellent web site for all things BBC. > > > >Oh, newbie list member here (thanks to the slashdot article). > > Oh, well welcome to the list. What kind of stuff are you interested in? BBC mostly, though not in a "must have everything" sense. Just because I spent many years making a sort of living off them. I've got one of Acorn's original ARM development systems though (connects to the BBC) which I've had since they were hot off the press. > > > >The PDP talk makes me want to kick my boss - he chucked two PDP11/23 clones > >(but original boards inside) on the tip last year, as well as sone S100 > >machine. I knew they'd have been worth something, but he's something of a > >chuck-out maniac. > > We all have stories like that to tell :-/ > > Joe I do have a microfive 1000 (if I brave an antagonistic ex-wife to collect from the attic) - multi-user 8088 based machine. I was trying to write a MUG on it at one point.. Anybody got any interest? Regards Rob From rob at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Mon Jan 13 12:57:08 2003 From: rob at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: MicroNOVA on eBay In-Reply-To: <16482760062.20030112235802@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030112182309.019b7140@pop.freeserve.net> Ah, takes me back to my very early teens, writing a "bomber" type game on the Nova at my dad's work... operators said: "how you manage to do that?" Might even still have an 8" disc somewhere with it on it.. Rob At 23:58 12/01/2003 -0600, you wrote: >Um, someone needs to bid this idea right out of the seller's head: > > "Don't need the microNOVA? Then toss it and use the rack!" > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2300442901 > >Stirling, NJ. Pickup only. $1 init bid. I am not associated with the seller. > >-- >Jeffrey Sharp From bradleyandassociates at choice.net Mon Jan 13 12:57:41 2003 From: bradleyandassociates at choice.net (Ken Bradley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: Apple II+ Message-ID: <026a01c2bb32$f8c4c840$866f5acf@pavilion> Hello: I am new to this listing, so please bear with me. I have a couple of Apple II+ computers circa 1979-1980 - were working when shut down many years ago. Is there a market for these? or should I put in trash? Thanks. Ken Bradley Ken Bradley Bradley & Associates 859.344.1965 859.344.1967 (Fax) bradleyandassociates@choice.net http://users.choice.net/~bradl/ Note: The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. Bradley & Associates -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030113/eafba436/attachment.html From lemay at cs.umn.edu Mon Jan 13 13:00:38 2003 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (lemay@cs.umn.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200301131902.NAA17057@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > I curse this day --> Back in college (many years ago, about 1983, before I > > got into collecting), I went to the apartment of a fellow compsci major to > > quell some beer. In the middle of his living room was a complete IBM system > > 3, in perfectly mint condition. He told me I could have it if I could get it > > out of there. Idiot me said "You gotta be kidding - no thanks". *SIGH* > > This seems to be a good test to see if you are an official old-timer in > the computer collecting hobby - passing up a free machine that today > people would kill for. > > I have been there, many times (IBM, Amdahl, DG). How about others? Oh, you mean like the day I passed on picking up all the Sun 2/120 systems... To my credit, I was more interested in the Sun 1/100U's, but letting the 1's blind me to the 2's was just plain dumb. -Lawrence LeMay From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Jan 13 13:08:01 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, William Donzelli wrote: > > This seems to be a good test to see if you are an official old-timer in > the computer collecting hobby - passing up a free machine that today > people would kill for. I gave my Bendix G-15 to a guy (years ago) because I was living in an upstairs apartment and there was no way it was going up there. And yes, we had it working... begin (dumb_shit) class = Who_Knew_? for {retribution = 1 to N} {N = a_very_big_integer} DO: (kick) OUCH! ENDO next {N} end (moron!) Cheers (sorta) John From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Jan 13 13:14:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: Osborne OCC1 Message-ID: Oops! This was not meant to go to the list, but if the images are useful to anyone else ... -----Original Message----- From: Feldman, Robert Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 10:51 AM To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: Re: Osborne OCC1 From lemay at cs.umn.edu Mon Jan 13 13:16:17 2003 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (lemay@cs.umn.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200301131919.NAA17274@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > Don't be so dour. System Source has been building a computer museum for > years now (mostly through eBay it would seem). > > Check out their website: > > http://www.syssrc.com/html/museum/index.html > > I believe they used to have the collection on public display from their > office. > > They're doing an awesome job documenting all this. I'll bet if you > inquired they would be willing to make copies of the documenation, or scan > it. > Well, their website doesnt show very many computers. In fact, they skip from mechanical adders right to the Altair and other home/personal computers. -Lawrence LeMay From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 13 13:22:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030113192450.75390.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- William Donzelli wrote: > There actually may be more PDP-12s out there today than there are PDP-8s > or PDP-8/Is. Certainly more than the PDP-8/S or LINC-8 machines. If only I could find a LINC-8. :-/ -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Mon Jan 13 13:24:00 2003 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Leo Rachor Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: Osborne OCC1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No problem.... I archived the images as I've got a couple of Osbornes that might benefit from this someday! George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Feldman, Robert wrote: > Oops! This was not meant to go to the list, but if the images are useful to > anyone else ... > > -----Original Message----- > From: Feldman, Robert > Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 10:51 AM > To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: Re: Osborne OCC1 > > > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 13 13:28:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:20 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030113193054.93391.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > The next guy at a flea market to tell me "I can get $X for it on eBay" is > going to get bitch-slapped. No doubt. I heard that the first time at the Dayton Hamvention a number of years ago, and asked the seller, "then why did you come here?" as I walked away. It was the two-volume bound "Creative Computing" set. ISTR he wanted $50 each for them. Already have a set. At the right price, it would have been nice to pick up a set in better shape. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Jan 13 13:40:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay) References: Message-ID: <00af01c2bb3b$eedfbca0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Yeah, got another horror story. I traded an apple II+ to my college comp sci instructor for a complete microdata M1600 reality system, and a Data General Nova 3 cpu only. I kept the M1600 for a few years, it served me well as to future employment. But I looked at the Nova 3 cpu sitting in a box a few days later and decided it was junk and pitched it. Yes, I deserve to be beaten :\ And even worse, I let that beautiful M1600 get pitched later... and it had a wooden front panel! GRRRR Ok, time to go get a memory block, I'd rather not remember these things. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From coredump at gifford.co.uk Mon Jan 13 13:47:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay References: Message-ID: <3E2317AE.9010307@gifford.co.uk> Zane H. Healy wrote: >>>outweighs the supply side. I suppose (PDP-12s actually are not all THAT >>>rare). > True, there are at least two of them locally (unfortunatly/fortunatly, none > of them are in my possession, or available). There's one in the Science Museum (London) collection. It appeared in Tim Hunkin's "Secret Life of Machines" TV series a few years ago. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Jan 13 13:50:01 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay References: <20030113002100.88980.23710.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <000a01c2bb31$55293230$0149030a@mohg.com> Message-ID: <3E2318AE.5040102@jetnet.ab.ca> Dennis Eldridge wrote: > You know you're (I'm) a geek when you're interested in buying CD's with high > rez pix of naked computers . Well I am not a geek, because I'll take a sexy naked operator with a pile of naked computers. (grin) I think the reason I like the older computers is both the hardware and software were more accessable than todays computers. Back then the user/operator could do something to fix or use a computer rather calling some tech-support to find out you need to buy the latest bloat-ware 2000. Ben. From kth at srv.net Mon Jan 13 14:05:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay References: Message-ID: <3E232173.9070401@srv.net> William Donzelli wrote: >>Could it by chance have something to do with the size of the systems, and >>the avaialability of the Operating Systems and software (and even >>documentation)? >> >> > >Yes, certainly. DECs have mostly been run by bunches of grad students, >nutty profs, wacko scientists, all natural packrats. IBMs, as well as the >rest of the BUNCH, are run by suits. Very different cultures. > > Also, early IBM was rented, not sold. When you were done with it, it went back to IBM, not into storage. Fewer systems for hobbyests to pick up. >>For example, I pretty much always pick up any documentation I can find, >>I've got probably 5-7 full size bookcases full of DEC documentation (that >>doesn't include microfiche and electronic format). For IBM, I've got maybe >>a third of one shelf. For DG, I've got a three-ring binder. Admitadly, I >>look for DEC doc's, but still even more of it's found me, than I've found >>of the other stuff. >> >> > >Docs do not seem to be the issue - DAC, IBM, DG, it all seems to have >survived well. If you look for IBM docs, you can get just as overloaded. > > > >>OTOH, the first two pieces of my classic computer collection are IBM, a >>hand-held card punch (still in almost prefect condition), and a wierd >>magtape. I've had both for 20-30 years. >> >> > >What is the magtape? > >William Donzelli >aw288@osfn.org > > > From danielrhicks at hotmail.com Mon Jan 13 14:07:00 2003 From: danielrhicks at hotmail.com (Daniel Hicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 Model 25 References: Message-ID: I am looking for a good, cheap PS/2 Model 25 (sx I think). It's the all-in-one model, with the screen built into the computer itself. It should have at least one disk drive, hard drive and a keyboard and mouse would be nice. Again, looking for cheap. Thanks Dan danielrhicks@hotmail.com From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Jan 13 14:10:01 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: <3E2317AE.9010307@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <003001c2bb40$26cebfe0$020010ac@k4jcw> I love that series. I hated to see it end, here. I dunno if it's showing elsewheres. Heck, I'd pay for whole series on DVD, along with The Secret Life Of Office Machines (make your own fax!) --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of John Honniball > Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 14:47 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: PDP-12 on eBay > > > Zane H. Healy wrote: > >>>outweighs the supply side. I suppose (PDP-12s actually are > not all THAT > >>>rare). > > True, there are at least two of them locally > (unfortunatly/fortunatly, none > > of them are in my possession, or available). > > There's one in the Science Museum (London) collection. It appeared > in Tim Hunkin's "Secret Life of Machines" TV series a few years ago. > > -- > John Honniball > coredump@gifford.co.uk > > From kth at srv.net Mon Jan 13 14:11:01 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay References: <20030113002100.88980.23710.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <000a01c2bb31$55293230$0149030a@mohg.com> <3E2318AE.5040102@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3E2322C8.4060104@srv.net> ben franchuk wrote: > Dennis Eldridge wrote: > >> You know you're (I'm) a geek when you're interested in buying CD's >> with high >> rez pix of naked computers . > > > Well I am not a geek, because I'll take a sexy naked operator with a > pile of naked computers. (grin) You really want naked pictures of some old guy changing tapes? > > I think the reason I like the older computers is both the hardware > and software were more accessable than todays computers. Back then > the user/operator could do something to fix or use a computer rather > calling some tech-support to find out you need to buy the latest > bloat-ware 2000. > Ben. > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Jan 13 14:15:01 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 Model 25 References: Message-ID: <00d001c2bb40$f44bbae0$c050ef42@oemcomputer> Were are you located? The Goodwill here in Houston had one the other day for $12.99 for the CPU only no KB or mouse with it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Hicks" To: Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 2:12 PM Subject: IBM PS/2 Model 25 > > I am looking for a good, cheap PS/2 Model 25 (sx I think). It's the > all-in-one model, with the screen built into the computer itself. It should > have at least one disk drive, hard drive and a keyboard and mouse would be > nice. > > Again, looking for cheap. > > Thanks > Dan > danielrhicks@hotmail.com > > From bones at northrock.bm Mon Jan 13 14:17:00 2003 From: bones at northrock.bm (Dennis Eldridge) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: DOS 1.0 References: <20030113185615.518.48355.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <000c01c2bb41$1f611680$0149030a@mohg.com> I do indeed remember those manuals - those sturdy binders which let you know these systems meant business. There were never enough of the binders available in the IBM PC dealership I worked in. And lest we forget: the infamous "This page intentionally left blank" page. What's up with that?? I do also memember Wordstar and it's arcane command sequences. Those commands persisted though, through a number of ordinary text editors for programmers & such. Speaking of infantile and utterly bizarre, does anyone remember that abysmal IBM attempt at a word processor, the name of which escapes me at the moment. I think it was vaguely based on their mainframe product, typical of IBM at the time. It's command set was last seen wandering about in their "e" editor in PC DOS 6.xx. It's an amazingly powerful editor in a lot of ways, loads of options and features if you can figure them out. But I'll be danged if I can get the thing to insert a new line... Cheers, Dennis From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Jan 13 14:18:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: Osborne OCC1 References: Message-ID: <00f201c2bb41$4954ae70$c050ef42@oemcomputer> My virus program removed your attachment as being a danger? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Feldman, Robert" To: Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 10:51 AM Subject: RE: Re: Osborne OCC1 > Glen, > > Attached is a ZIP file with two JPEG images that are scans of pages from the > Osborne 1 Technical Manual that relate to the PS and wiring. They might be > useful to you. > > Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: acme@ao.net [mailto:acme@ao.net] > Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 4:03 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Re: Osborne OCC1 > > > From: Joe > To: Glen Goodwin > Subject: Re: Osborne OCC1 > Date: 01/08/2003 7:55 AM > > > I recently had an OCC-1 that blew something in the PSU. That odd thing > was > > at it kept working! I wasn't really intersted in it so I gave it to Glen > Good > > . I expect that he'll troubleshoot/repai > > r it soon. > > Okay, Joe, I get the hint ;>) I'll take a look at it this weekend -- should > be > a quick and easy fix. > > Later -- > > Glen > 0/0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Jan 13 14:25:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay References: <20030113002100.88980.23710.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <000a01c2bb31$55293230$0149030a@mohg.com> <3E2318AE.5040102@jetnet.ab.ca> <3E2322C8.4060104@srv.net> Message-ID: <3E2320CA.5020104@jetnet.ab.ca> Kevin Handy wrote: >> Well I am not a geek, because I'll take a sexy naked operator with a >> pile of naked computers. (grin) > > > You really want naked pictures of some old guy changing tapes? > They were young and had hair back then too. :) From joe_web at worldonline.fr Mon Jan 13 14:26:28 2003 From: joe_web at worldonline.fr (=?Windows-1252?Q?Jo=EBl_Weber?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: [for sale] IBM 5100 + IBM 5120 References: <001801c2bb01$85769de0$c7921c97@duron1200> Message-ID: <000901c2bb43$03580be0$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> hello, what do you want for this computer? I live in france, you speak franch or german? because my english is not very good. I want just the price. bye ----- Original Message ----- From: "Collector" To: Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 1:44 PM Subject: [for sale] IBM 5100 + IBM 5120 > For sale: > > IBM 5100 + manuals + cassette > http://www.inversewave.com/vintage/ibm5100.zip > IBM 5120 > http://www.inversewave.com/vintage/ibm5120.zip > > regards, > > From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Jan 13 14:30:01 2003 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 Model 25 Message-ID: <1c4.35d85f4.2b547c8c@aol.com> In a message dated 1/13/2003 3:20:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, jrkeys@concentric.net writes: << > I am looking for a good, cheap PS/2 Model 25 (sx I think). It's the > all-in-one model, with the screen built into the computer itself. It should > have at least one disk drive, hard drive and a keyboard and mouse would be > nice. > >> they can be found, but are QUITE heavy! From danielrhicks at hotmail.com Mon Jan 13 14:33:00 2003 From: danielrhicks at hotmail.com (Daniel Hicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 Model 25 References: <00d001c2bb40$f44bbae0$c050ef42@oemcomputer> Message-ID: I am located in Lansing, Michigan. That sounds like a good price, I have keyboard and mouse. Thanks for the info. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keys" To: Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 3:18 PM Subject: Re: IBM PS/2 Model 25 > Were are you located? The Goodwill here in Houston had one the other day for > $12.99 for the CPU only no KB or mouse with it. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Daniel Hicks" > To: > Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 2:12 PM > Subject: IBM PS/2 Model 25 > > > > > > I am looking for a good, cheap PS/2 Model 25 (sx I think). It's the > > all-in-one model, with the screen built into the computer itself. It > should > > have at least one disk drive, hard drive and a keyboard and mouse would be > > nice. > > > > Again, looking for cheap. > > > > Thanks > > Dan > > danielrhicks@hotmail.com > > > > > From joe_web at worldonline.fr Mon Jan 13 14:33:37 2003 From: joe_web at worldonline.fr (=?Windows-1252?Q?Jo=EBl_Weber?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: Apple II+ References: <026a01c2bb32$f8c4c840$866f5acf@pavilion> Message-ID: <001901c2bb44$0eea46c0$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> hello, when do you doesn't want this computers, give they me because i have one museum of computers in france. say me a price or give they me so . (sorry, but my english is very bad) do you speak french or german? they are were interesting for me, so before you shut down they in the trash, give they me. joel ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Bradley To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 7:38 PM Subject: Apple II+ Hello: I am new to this listing, so please bear with me. I have a couple of Apple II+ computers circa 1979-1980 - were working when shut down many years ago. Is there a market for these? or should I put in trash? Thanks. Ken Bradley Ken Bradley Bradley & Associates 859.344.1965 859.344.1967 (Fax) bradleyandassociates@choice.net http://users.choice.net/~bradl/ Note: The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. Bradley & Associates -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030113/7b1c23b4/attachment.html From coredump at gifford.co.uk Mon Jan 13 14:52:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 Model 25 References: Message-ID: <3E2327B5.7000405@gifford.co.uk> Daniel Hicks wrote: > I am looking for a good, cheap PS/2 Model 25 (sx I think). It's the > all-in-one model, with the screen built into the computer itself. It should > have at least one disk drive, hard drive and a keyboard and mouse would be > nice. I saw some of these in Mendelson's in Dayton, Ohio in about 1999: http://www.meci.com/ Wanted to bring one back with me, because they were never sold by IBM in the UK. But it just wasn't feasible. > Again, looking for cheap. Can't remember the price. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From kris at catonic.net Mon Jan 13 15:13:00 2003 From: kris at catonic.net (Kris Kirby) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 Model 25 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Daniel Hicks wrote: > I am looking for a good, cheap PS/2 Model 25 (sx I think). It's the > all-in-one model, with the screen built into the computer itself. It should > have at least one disk drive, hard drive and a keyboard and mouse would be > nice. I have a pair. Heavy, in decent shape (not 100% original screws, but 90% are). Any particular reason you are looking for one? These machines are 8086s with 512K of RAM, and 720K floppy drives. They shipped with 83-key keyboards to the best of my knowledge, but I haven't seen any in a good long while. Anyone want a pair of Model 80s? ;-) I don't know what it would cost to pack and ship these two; I wouldn't be asking any money for them, just to be rid of them. I have serial terminals now and don't really have a need for the PS/2s. (They drop packets like crazy if you use them as network terminals.) -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR TGIFreeBSD IM: 'KrisBSD' "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!" This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security From classiccmp at crash.com Mon Jan 13 15:15:01 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: Was there a DEC LINC-5 (not -8)? Message-ID: <200301132117.h0DLHLg18384@io.crash.com> > > There actually may be more PDP-12s out there today than there are PDP-8s > > or PDP-8/Is. Certainly more than the PDP-8/S or LINC-8 machines. > > If only I could find a LINC-8. :-/ Something I've been wondering about -- my prep school had what I very strongly remember being labeled as a LINC-5, definitely DEC, a large cabinet with formica counter under a blinkenlight front panel. And a TTY or Flex-o-writer positioned next to or mounted on an "L" or return extension of the counter. The powder blue/lime green color scheme from the LINC-8 photos looks right, but it was definitely in the neighborhood of ~5 feet tall rather than a standard 19" rack. It was built out of what must have been Flip Chips, in a cage around to the right of the unit as you faced the console. Sadly they decommissioned it after my first year (1981/82), and I never got a chance to learn anything about it - it was reserved for upper classmen only. Also, the sole teacher who understood the beast (Mr. Garrison, noted for his gruff nature and pipe smoking) was leaving or retiring after that year. Is my memory faulty and this had to be a LINC-8, or was there such a thing as a LINC-5? Thanks, --Steve. LINC Links: The LINC: An Early "Personal Computer" [Quick history. --S.] http://www.ddj.com/documents/s=1493/ddj0004hc/do200007hc001.htm Laboratory Instrument Computer (LINC) "The Genesis of a Technological Revolution" [Nice, narrative history of the original development. --S.] http://www.nih.gov/od/museum/exhibits/linc/main.html What different PDP-8 models were made? http://www.faqs.org/faqs/dec-faq/pdp8/section-6.html From allain at panix.com Mon Jan 13 15:20:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 Model 25 References: Message-ID: <007201c2bb4a$0052de00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I am looking for a good, cheap PS/2 Model 25 (sx I think). > ... Again, looking for cheap. Be prepared. Typically 25's are 8086 with no hard drive. The options you want probably existed but would make the model considerably rarer. John A. From danielrhicks at hotmail.com Mon Jan 13 15:24:00 2003 From: danielrhicks at hotmail.com (Daniel Hicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 Model 25 References: Message-ID: Well, I would only need one. The better of the two. Could you see how much it would cost to ship it to Lansing, Michigan? Zip code - 48912. I have several Model 60's and 80's so do not need those. I used to use these in high school, and am looking to put together a small collection of IBM computers from that time. I already have a couple of other desktop model 25's. I even have an original PC and PCjr which was my first computer. Why am I interested? Nostalgic reasons only, nothing more. I am certainly interested if you could tell me the cost of shipping to 48912. Thanks much, Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kris Kirby" To: Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 4:16 PM Subject: Re: IBM PS/2 Model 25 > On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Daniel Hicks wrote: > > I am looking for a good, cheap PS/2 Model 25 (sx I think). It's the > > all-in-one model, with the screen built into the computer itself. It should > > have at least one disk drive, hard drive and a keyboard and mouse would be > > nice. > > I have a pair. Heavy, in decent shape (not 100% original screws, but 90% > are). Any particular reason you are looking for one? These machines are > 8086s with 512K of RAM, and 720K floppy drives. They shipped with 83-key > keyboards to the best of my knowledge, but I haven't seen any in a good > long while. > > Anyone want a pair of Model 80s? ;-) > > I don't know what it would cost to pack and ship these two; I wouldn't be > asking any money for them, just to be rid of them. I have serial terminals > now and don't really have a need for the PS/2s. > > (They drop packets like crazy if you use them as network terminals.) > > -- > Kris Kirby, KE4AHR TGIFreeBSD IM: 'KrisBSD' > "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!" > This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security > From danielrhicks at hotmail.com Mon Jan 13 15:34:00 2003 From: danielrhicks at hotmail.com (Daniel Hicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 Model 25 References: <007201c2bb4a$0052de00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: Thanks, I am quite familiar with them. In my high school I was in charging of maintaining the ten that we had in a small computer lab. If I recall, they had 20-MB hard drives and a single 720-k floppy drive. we used DOS and WordPerfect 5.1 on them. The school gave them all to me after I graduated, and like a fool I trashed them (along with 10 model 80's, and 10 old Zenith machines) Now nostalgia is setting in and I would like to get my hands on one again. Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 4:23 PM Subject: Re: IBM PS/2 Model 25 > > I am looking for a good, cheap PS/2 Model 25 (sx I think). > > ... Again, looking for cheap. > > Be prepared. Typically 25's are 8086 with no hard drive. > The options you want probably existed but would make > the model considerably rarer. > > John A. > From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Jan 13 16:01:02 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? In-Reply-To: <3E22EE33.1BE12057@rain.org> Message-ID: <3E22E401.19186.5C7A846@localhost> On 13 Jan 2003, , Marvin Johnston wrote: > Ebay is a retail venue; most people don't expect wholesale > prices at Sears :). And there *have* been some *incredible* > buys on Ebay. Someone I know bought an item on Ebay that > just happened to be one of the two known prototype motors > built by Tesla. I don't recall the pricing but I think it > was less than $100. And for someone who either doesn't have > or who doesn't want to take the time to do their own > treasure hunting, Ebay is an excellent choice. And the > prices are mostly reasonable. Now THAT is sick and only underlines the skewed bidding values that are EBay. That one of only 2 prototype Tesla motors could have even appeared on public auction is at the very least disgraceful and sickens me. How on earth could a forerunner of all AC motors by IMHO the greatest engineer of the 20th century even be released into the public domain. Either a sad comment on the lack of depth of education, or the success of Edison and his supporters to erase from history the name of this remarkable man. I dearly hope he is going to hold it in trust and eventually turn it over to a caring museum. To hell with all the Apple 1s, PDP-12s, or Altairs. Compared to this they are insignificant. I'm just surprised it didn't make headlines. This isn't a put-on, is it Marvin ? The more I think about it, the less believable it becomes. Lawrence lgwalker@ mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Jan 13 16:01:49 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: <3E224FB7.1060306@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3E22E401.17962.5C7A7F6@localhost> On the other hand, an IBM 8580 PS/2 cost around $10,000 in 87 and I acquired one for $10 in 97. I'd gladly part with an 8580 for $2000. Even $20 for that matter. Lawrence On 12 Jan 2003, , ben franchuk wrote: Considering the Going Cost of a PDP-12 was around $28,000 in 1969 getting it for 5,000 2003 dollars is cheap. Ben. lgwalker@ mts.net From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jan 13 16:09:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay) In-Reply-To: <200301131902.NAA17057@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: > Oh, you mean like the day I passed on picking up all the Sun 2/120 systems... > To my credit, I was more interested in the Sun 1/100U's, but letting the > 1's blind me to the 2's was just plain dumb. I would not really call Sun-2s that rare. They pop up quite often. The Sun-1/100s are rare, one of the rarest Suns. Don't kick yourself. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Jan 13 16:56:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? References: <3E22E401.19186.5C7A846@localhost> Message-ID: <01a901c2bb57$56d2ce40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I REALLY don't want to start a long thread on ebay pros & cons, but the post lawrence made got me thinking. I'll try to keep it lucid instead of trolling ;) It strikes me that when a manufacturer sets a price, he is planning on a production run of at least X machines, and hopefully production runs after the initial one if all goes well. So when they decide on a price, it has to do with market values for sure, but also for recouping their design and production costs. But what I'm driving at is the manufacturer knows he's going to make (and probably sell) at least X units. He has INVENTORY. He doesn't have to recoup his costs on one unit. He can discount and get less money for a system if he wants, because either he has already covered his production costs or because he needs to sell more units to get closer to same. Also keep in mind - the manufacturer's cost is generally fixed. It's the same cost for machine #1 as it is for machine #5000. Generally anyways. The ebay seller on the other hand, doesn't have this luxury. No inventory. Chances are he only has one item. Period. Forever. So it is clearly in his best interest to get the highest possible price. And I can't blame them one bit. The simple fact is... when a particular item on ebay goes for 100 times the value WE think it should have, to the person who bought it... well, it *IS* worth that much. And that's pretty much the definition of market value - what someone is willing to pay. And the ebay seller's costs... they DO fluctuate wildly. One guy may have bought the system for $500 before taking it to ebay, the other guy may have picked the same exact model system out of a dumpster behind his apartment for zero cost. Another guy may have emotional attachment which raises the price he would want. Others just have an unrealistic idea of what a system is "worth", probably cause of ebay *grin* So, I must say I despise the "high" prices of some stuff on ebay. Cause I have to pay them - sometimes. I hate that all the systems there go for "real" money, when, if ebay didn't exist, the "come and pick it up and you can have it" mentality would be a lot more prevalent. And folks like us would have a lot more cool vintage hardware - maybe. But, ebay is there, it is ubiquitous, and it does certainly establish "market value" as defined by what people are willing to pay. And actually, I am sure the high prices on ebay are not lost on junk dealers and "for profit" folks. As a matter of fact, I would bet the fact that you can get well over $1K for an Imsai 8080 on ebay, is DIRECTLY responsible for a LOT of Imsai 8080's NOT going into the dumpster. Is that such a bad thing? And when you have everything needed to make a system run except ONE single missing card... is it bad that you find that holy grail card on ebay? I don't think so. Not if it gets another vintage machine up and running. On the other hand, people tend to look at ebay completed items as "what an item is worth". The problem with this is that on ebay the prices fluctuate WILDLY for exactly the reasons I listed above. One guy may want a lot because he paid a lot for it. From the buyers prospective, when checking historical prices on ebay, it is hard to know what it will go for today, because on that day, there may have been 5 collectors who desperately wanted an item, driving the price way up. But by now, most of them may have already found one from other sources. So I guess I have to say I both love, and hate, ebay at the same time. It is not a good indicator of the "collectible value". But it is a very good indicator of 1-Is there a market for... and 2-What was it worth on that particular date and time. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From marvin at rain.org Mon Jan 13 17:24:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? References: <3E22E401.19186.5C7A846@localhost> Message-ID: <3E234B43.31E5C22A@rain.org> No, this is not a put on and was told to me by the person who bought it (and it went to a VERY good home!!!) Because of its importance, the last I heard (about a year or two ago) it was still being researched to verify its authentity. What would make you think the person selling it would have known what it was :) ??? The person who bought it just happened to see a description that caught his eye; it is doubtful anyone else (or at least VERY few people) would have recognized it for what it was. Lawrence Walker wrote: > > On 13 Jan 2003, , Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > Ebay is a retail venue; most people don't expect wholesale > > prices at Sears :). And there *have* been some *incredible* > > buys on Ebay. Someone I know bought an item on Ebay that > > just happened to be one of the two known prototype motors > > built by Tesla. I don't recall the pricing but I think it > > was less than $100. And for someone who either doesn't have > > or who doesn't want to take the time to do their own > > treasure hunting, Ebay is an excellent choice. And the > > prices are mostly reasonable. > > Now THAT is sick and only underlines the skewed > bidding values that are EBay. That one of only 2 > prototype Tesla motors could have even appeared on > public auction is at the very least disgraceful and sickens > me. How on earth could a forerunner of all AC motors by > IMHO the greatest engineer of the 20th century even be > released into the public domain. Either a sad comment > on the lack of depth of education, or the success of > Edison and his supporters to erase from history the name > of this remarkable man. I dearly hope he is going to hold > it in trust and eventually turn it over to a caring museum. > > To hell with all the Apple 1s, PDP-12s, or Altairs. > Compared to this they are insignificant. I'm just > surprised it didn't make headlines. > > This isn't a put-on, is it Marvin ? The more I think > about it, the less believable it becomes. > > Lawrence > lgwalker@ mts.net From jingber at ix.netcom.com Mon Jan 13 17:32:00 2003 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 Model 25 In-Reply-To: References: <007201c2bb4a$0052de00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <1042500907.4151.32.camel@supermicro> I owned a model 25 a number of years ago. This one actually had a 30MB HDD that used a seperate controller. I also had an 8-slot ISA expansion box from a comapny called Pacific Coast Horizons (PCH, I think that was the name of the outfit). Also had an NEC CDR-72 single speed CD-ROM (SCSI) and an MPU-401/MT-32 setup. Jeff On Mon, 2003-01-13 at 16:38, Daniel Hicks wrote: > > Thanks, I am quite familiar with them. In my high school I was in charging > of maintaining the ten that we had in a small computer lab. If I recall, > they had 20-MB hard drives and a single 720-k floppy drive. we used DOS and > WordPerfect 5.1 on them. The school gave them all to me after I graduated, > and like a fool I trashed them (along with 10 model 80's, and 10 old Zenith > machines) Now nostalgia is setting in and I would like to get my hands on > one again. > > Dan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Allain" > To: > Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 4:23 PM > Subject: Re: IBM PS/2 Model 25 > > > > > I am looking for a good, cheap PS/2 Model 25 (sx I think). > > > ... Again, looking for cheap. > > > > Be prepared. Typically 25's are 8086 with no hard drive. > > The options you want probably existed but would make > > the model considerably rarer. > > > > John A. > > From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Jan 13 18:33:47 2003 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: Mentec Hobbyist plans? In-Reply-To: <6480176547.20030112231458@subatomix.com> References: <20030110144441.GX5260@mrbill.net> <6480176547.20030112231458@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <20030114003551.GV27741@mrbill.net> On Sun, Jan 12, 2003 at 11:14:58PM -0600, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Friday, January 10, 2003, Bill Bradford wrote: > > Anybody know if Mentec (http://www.mentec-inc.com) has just dropped their > > hobbyist licensing/cdrom plans? > Nobody's asked this yet: Why did you ask that question? Did something give > you the impression that the hobbyist program was in danger? In danger? No, I just have never seen any release from Mentec of stuff on CD-ROm like was discussed over a year or more ago... I'd been "awawy" from things for a while, and didnt know the current status. I couldnt see from their web page that anything had/has been done. if otherwise, inform me! bill -- bill bradford mrbill@mrbill.net austin, texas From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jan 13 18:46:17 2003 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: Mentec Hobbyist plans? In-Reply-To: <20030114003551.GV27741@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Monday, January 13, 2003, at 07:35 PM, Bill Bradford wrote: >>> Anybody know if Mentec (http://www.mentec-inc.com) has just dropped >>> their >>> hobbyist licensing/cdrom plans? >> Nobody's asked this yet: Why did you ask that question? Did something >> give >> you the impression that the hobbyist program was in danger? > > In danger? No, I just have never seen any release from Mentec of > stuff on > CD-ROm like was discussed over a year or more ago... I'd been "awawy" > from > things for a while, and didnt know the current status. I couldnt see > from > their web page that anything had/has been done. You didn't go out and find yourself a social life, did you Bill? ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols From 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com Mon Jan 13 18:46:44 2003 From: 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com (No Junk Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: Apple II+ Message-ID: <17302-89127@sneakemail.com> > I have a couple of Apple II+ computers circa 1979-1980 - were working > when shut down many years ago. Is there a market for these? or should > I put in trash? A rule of thumb I now go by: If you paid more than $50 for it and it still works, don't throw it out. Sell it or keep it, but don't throw it out. May still need some work, possibly referencing original price rather than the price you paid, but I'm liking it so far. Chris J. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jan 13 19:20:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: DOS 1.0 In-Reply-To: <000c01c2bb41$1f611680$0149030a@mohg.com> References: <20030113185615.518.48355.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030113202724.45c78aa8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:19 PM 1/13/03 -0400, you wrote: >I do indeed remember those manuals - those sturdy binders which let you know >these systems meant business. There were never enough of the binders >available in the IBM PC dealership I worked in. And lest we forget: the >infamous "This page intentionally left blank" page. What's up with that?? > >I do also memember Wordstar and it's arcane command sequences. Those >commands persisted though, through a number of ordinary text editors for >programmers & such. > >Speaking of infantile and utterly bizarre, does anyone remember that abysmal >IBM attempt at a word processor, the name of which escapes me at the moment. >I think it was vaguely based on their mainframe product, typical of IBM at >the time. Sounds like you're thinking of DisplayWrite. Joe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 13 19:30:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: Shark Update In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030113071522.01b4dd18@slave> from "Adrian Vickers" at Jan 13, 3 07:28:52 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4752 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030113/eaf8afd7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 13 19:30:44 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030112183839.0f375f58@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Jan 12, 3 06:38:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1368 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030113/bf828e97/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 13 19:32:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: It's ALIVE! Re: Update: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030112211133.76ff506e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Jan 12, 3 09:11:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1402 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030113/4c9a8c56/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 13 19:32:20 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Jan 13, 3 11:46:24 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 974 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030113/7a7fd32f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 13 19:32:40 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: <000b01c2bab6$8a7da720$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Jan 12, 3 10:47:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 448 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030113/dff5b3ed/attachment.ksh From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Mon Jan 13 19:46:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030113204635.05810ec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> Don't know if anyone would find anything useful here, but in a search for datasheets, I found this link ... Electronics Datasheets links ... http://la.mine.nu/~emil/electron.html From loedman1 at juno.com Mon Jan 13 20:52:01 2003 From: loedman1 at juno.com (loedman1@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: An original AOLuser Message-ID: <20030113.185239.-7723.2.loedman1@juno.com> >The AOL slamming that goes about on this list - indeed any of the >AOL/Microsoft/Luser slamming - does not help our image either. Yes, >folks, many people on the outside, including *many* respectable old >computer collectors, do not have a very good opinion of this list... >William Donzelli >aw288@osfn.org With the exception of the often excessive sarcasm of a certain member, I, as a relative newcomer find this list to be both informative and quite well run and the members to be quite generous with their knowledge both on and off the list. Rich Stephenson From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Jan 13 20:55:37 2003 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: Mentec Hobbyist plans? In-Reply-To: References: <20030114003551.GV27741@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20030114025748.GX27741@mrbill.net> On Mon, Jan 13, 2003 at 07:48:42PM -0500, Dave McGuire wrote: > You didn't go out and find yourself a social life, did you Bill? ;) Never! Actually, got caught up in a job layoff, job hunt, and "too busy at job" to read classiccmp or worry about DEC stuff for a while. Bill -- bill bradford mrbill@mrbill.net austin, texas From jingber at ix.netcom.com Mon Jan 13 21:02:01 2003 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: Looking for both parties who claimed my NeXT inkjet and IBM parts Message-ID: <1042513477.2292.2.camel@supermicro> I had a rather lousy turn of events last night and hosed my inbox. I'm looking for the parties who negotiated a deal with myself for 1) NeXT inkjet printer, and 2) The remainder of the NeXT and IBM items. Thank You, Jeff From n8uhn at yahoo.com Mon Jan 13 21:30:17 2003 From: n8uhn at yahoo.com (Bill Allen Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: IBM system 3 Message-ID: <20030114033304.433.qmail@web40701.mail.yahoo.com> Oh yeah, there are other stories concerning left behind comps. ironic though, i listen to a satellite hobbiest radio network (www.w0kie.com) and thier playing the blues as i am writing this. while working security at a local plant, the managers were so used to my scrounging that they usually told me about new stuff in the scrap bin during my break. so as usual, when hearing about "some computer stuff in the bin" i go out to it expecting more plc stuff (joy, more westinghouse pc-1100's to add to my collection). i look into the bin and find two boxes with non standard port/ connectors on it marked "four phase systems". i was about to load them into my car - when i thought why, i'll never find anything more for this comp no docs or hd's,printer etc. it turns out that i left 460/470 cpu's go for scrap! next week - same story but these are still on the loading dock - yep my jaw about hit the floor when i found a rack with the hd,diablo disc drive,comms,printer and terminals next to the rack and a box of spare cards for both cpu's aggghhhhh! i still have that half of the system. but wait it get's better!! last week - i call the local retired ibm c.e. and we start talking about old comps when i bring up the rare four phase stuff. yep he said it - "wow i just threw a complete system 470 away last year" - doh!!!!!! of all the systems i have passed up - the iv-70 is the one that haunts me the most - so close yet so far. someday - i may find the cpu's, or part with the half that i have (no, not scrap but trade or give away). one note - i am glad that the VCF does have a complete four phase system 470 perserved - that fact alone help's me sleep at night when i remember my mistake of leaving the cpu's in the scrapper. Bill Message: 5 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:44:33 -0500 (EST) From: William Donzelli To: cctalk@classiccmp.org cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay) Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > I curse this day --> Back in college (many years ago, about 1983, before I > got into collecting), I went to the apartment of a fellow compsci major to > quell some beer. In the middle of his living room was a complete IBM system > 3, in perfectly mint condition. He told me I could have it if I could get it > out of there. Idiot me said "You gotta be kidding - no thanks". *SIGH* This seems to be a good test to see if you are an official old-timer in the computer collecting hobby - passing up a free machine that today people would kill for. I have been there, many times (IBM, Amdahl, DG). How about others? William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org --__--__-- __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From steven_nikkel at ertyu.org Mon Jan 13 22:07:00 2003 From: steven_nikkel at ertyu.org (Steven Nikkel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: Dec 3000/300 keyboard/mouse box Message-ID: <3E238DA5.17622E07@ertyu.org> I recovered a couple Dec 3000/300 machines at work, with keyboards and mice and can't find any of the keyboard/mice break out boxes. What do they look like? Or where can I find them inexpensively? -- Steven Nikkel From jss at subatomix.com Mon Jan 13 22:11:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: Mentec Hobbyist plans? In-Reply-To: <20030114025748.GX27741@mrbill.net> References: <20030114003551.GV27741@mrbill.net> <20030114025748.GX27741@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <1841110516.20030113221426@subatomix.com> On Monday, January 13, 2003, Bill Bradford wrote: > Never! Actually, got caught up in a job layoff, job hunt, and ... *Another* one? How many have there been? -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Mon Jan 13 22:15:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1671336321.20030113221812@subatomix.com> On Monday, January 13, 2003, William Donzelli wrote: > This seems to be a good test to see if you are an official old-timer in > the computer collecting hobby - passing up a free machine that today > people would kill for. I might not *kill* for a TI 9900 (?) mini, but I let one go from my school to the landfill when I was in the seventh grade. So by your definition I'm only 23.9 but yet still an old-timer! -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Mon Jan 13 22:19:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay) In-Reply-To: <00af01c2bb3b$eedfbca0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <00af01c2bb3b$eedfbca0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <91589034.20030113222225@subatomix.com> On Monday, January 13, 2003, Jay West wrote: > But I looked at the Nova 3 cpu sitting in a box a few days later and > decided it was junk and pitched it. Yes, I deserve to be beaten :\ Hey, I just passed on a Nova 3 a month ago at the university surplus. Of course, it did come non-negotiably with 3 pallets of huge equipment that were beyond my capacity in mass, size, and price, and time. It was rather pristine, too. :-( -- Jeffrey Sharp From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jan 13 22:19:34 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > Just an observation - this does show how DECcentric this list (and > > really, most of the big iron retrocomputing folks) is. There have been a > > You've made this comment before, and while I totally agree with it, I > think there are also possible reasons for it : > > 1) DEC machines tended to be owned, IBM machines were often rented -> DEC > machines were not returned when they were no longer needed, but were > pushed into storerooms, etc. Whereupon mad hackers found them More than that, IBM destroyed a lot of trade-ins and off-lease hardware, in order to keep the new market up. They _say_ they no longer do so. Doc From jss at subatomix.com Mon Jan 13 22:28:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: An original Compaq "portable" In-Reply-To: <6BA81EB6.73BC0168.0000EF7A@aol.com> References: <6BA81EB6.73BC0168.0000EF7A@aol.com> Message-ID: <1652139296.20030113223135@subatomix.com> On Monday, January 13, 2003, MTPro@aol.com wrote: > > YA AOL luser. LART, anyone? > > You owe me and other decent AOL users on the list an apology. This is > arrogance pure and simple Mr. high and mighty "subatomix" user. I already posted this: > It isn't the first time, and it isn't the last time. ISTR there are > several very respectable list members who are subscribed with an AOL > address. Not all AOLers are lusers, but people like the one above > certainly don't help kill the stereotype. Sigh. I apologize for my remark. Subatomix is neither high nor mighty. It's just my vanity domain. -- Jeffrey Sharp From gessler at ucla.edu Mon Jan 13 22:35:01 2003 From: gessler at ucla.edu (gessler@ucla.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:21 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 Message-ID: <200301140440.h0E4es917063@webmail.my.ucla.edu> I'm away from home but would appreciate hearing more about the possibility of buying a 5100 or related computer. Could someone please resend me the information? Many thanks, Nick From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 13 22:40:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Could it by chance have something to do with the size of the systems, and > the avaialability of the Operating Systems and software (and even > documentation)? I know that in my case that's the reason for my interest > in DEC over IBM. It's more practical to concentrate on DEC. I think it has perhaps more to do with the fact that a lot more people came up on DEC systems in high school or college, and they were inherently more accessible and therefore more hackable, and as a result there are more people desirous of DEC gear to feed their nostalgia. IBM machines tended to be big power hungry behemoths that stood fixed in a computer room with a glass wall in front of it, with exceptions being the 1401 and 1620, for which there is certainly a not insignificant collector base. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 13 22:41:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, William Donzelli wrote: > > I curse this day --> Back in college (many years ago, about 1983, before I > > got into collecting), I went to the apartment of a fellow compsci major to > > quell some beer. In the middle of his living room was a complete IBM system > > 3, in perfectly mint condition. He told me I could have it if I could get it > > out of there. Idiot me said "You gotta be kidding - no thanks". *SIGH* > > This seems to be a good test to see if you are an official old-timer in > the computer collecting hobby - passing up a free machine that today > people would kill for. > > I have been there, many times (IBM, Amdahl, DG). How about others? I haven't. I always accepted the machine (much to the chagrin of my poor mother ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 13 22:42:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: [for sale] IBM 5100 + IBM 5120 In-Reply-To: <001801c2bb01$85769de0$c7921c97@duron1200> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Collector wrote: > For sale: > > IBM 5100 + manuals + cassette > http://www.inversewave.com/vintage/ibm5100.zip > IBM 5120 > http://www.inversewave.com/vintage/ibm5120.zip Is it possible to just put the unzipped files on your web server? I don't like to download zips. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 13 22:57:04 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? In-Reply-To: <20030113193054.93391.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > > The next guy at a flea market to tell me "I can get $X for it on eBay" is > > going to get bitch-slapped. > > No doubt. I heard that the first time at the Dayton Hamvention a number > of years ago, and asked the seller, "then why did you come here?" as I That's what I ask them too. If I really want the item, I explain to them how much more of a hassle it is to sell on eBay: how they have to go through the trouble to take photos, come up with a description, wait a week, hope the winning bidder sends you the money in another week, pack the thing up, take it to the post office, etc. Not to mention that they are already here and I've got money in hand. Sometimes it works. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 13 22:58:38 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: <3E2317AE.9010307@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, John Honniball wrote: > There's one in the Science Museum (London) collection. It appeared in > Tim Hunkin's "Secret Life of Machines" TV series a few years ago. Now THAT would be an episode to not miss! I hope they re-air it at some point (and I somehow catch it when it's on). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From nickmiller at charter.net Mon Jan 13 22:59:03 2003 From: nickmiller at charter.net (Nick Miller) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? References: <3E22EE33.1BE12057@rain.org> Message-ID: <016501c2bb72$1b28cdc0$7a00a8c0@themillers> I agree with Marvin, I've had great luck on eBay. Finding a BYT-8 for $75 and an MITS Altair 8800 full of Rev 0 boards and a C8080-8 CPU for $1250 was a great rush. I've sold an Apple II+ to Richard Garriot and bought a Heathkit H-11 from Jon Titus, don't sell it short. eBay works great if you don't bid against idiots and always keep a lookout for the bargains. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin Johnston" To: Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 10:49 AM Subject: Re: Help with pricing on vintage computers? > > > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > > > I've found the best way to get a realistic price on an ebay item is to > > > go to the bid history and look at the the pricing on the third bidder > > > down. And Ebay IS a *most* useful tool for finding what the value is to > > > most people; you just can't use the final bid price all the time. > > > > And as long as you're planning to buy or sell the item in question ON > > eBay. > > Ebay is a retail venue; most people don't expect wholesale prices at > Sears :). And there *have* been some *incredible* buys on Ebay. Someone > I know bought an item on Ebay that just happened to be one of the two > known prototype motors built by Tesla. I don't recall the pricing but I > think it was less than $100. And for someone who either doesn't have or > who doesn't want to take the time to do their own treasure hunting, Ebay > is an excellent choice. And the prices are mostly reasonable. > From cott at acclamation.com Mon Jan 13 22:59:25 2003 From: cott at acclamation.com (cott@acclamation.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: Ohio Scientific C4P-MF ROMs Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030113210738.00a5cf68@mail.acclamation.com> I'm sure some of you in this group have heard of the "Catweasel" floppy controller, which allows you to read nearly any type of floppy. Recently, I sent Email to the manufacturer asking if they thought there was any possibility their controller would read my Ohio Scientific C4P floppies. After a little discussion, we decided it could. However, it turns out they're working on a new project: a hardware emulator for old 6502-based machines. Right now, it only emulates a Commodore 64, but they say that, if I can get them the ROMs, they can make it emulate a C4P, too. I sent them the ROMs from my cassette-based C4P, but it would be really cool if we could do the floppy-based one. Can anyone out there with a C4P-MF send me the ROMs? Thanks, Chris Ott From jimkeo at multi-platforms.com Mon Jan 13 22:59:51 2003 From: jimkeo at multi-platforms.com (Jim Keohane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: IBM 3670 Brokerage Communication System - need old 1971 manuals Message-ID: <00d701c2bb86$ffec8e60$0200000a@ibm0187702152> Can anyone suggest where I might obtain an original or copy (they are less than 50 pages) of 2 IBM manuals: GA27-3048 IBM 3670 Brokerage Communication System Concepts & Configurator GA27-3049 IBM 3670 Brokerage Communication System Installation & Planning Also, if anyone recollects working with such a system (Merrill Lynch in early 70's?) I would appreciate a description of how a broker or analyst could specify stocks in which he/she was interested along with some price limits or ranges and then receive a message alert on the terminal if limits were exceeded during real-time monitoring of trades in that security. In other words how were price alerts implemented. Email me directly via jimkeo@multi-platforms.com with Subject "IBM 3670" if you can. Thanks! - Jim Jim Keohane, Multi-Platforms, Inc. "It's not whether you win or lose. It's whether you win!" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030113/48539391/attachment.html From livewire at netadel.com Mon Jan 13 23:00:29 2003 From: livewire at netadel.com (Live Wire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: VAXStation 4000/60 Message-ID: <003d01c2bb88$db986820$1e01a8c0@netadelxp> I rescued a VAXStation 4000/60 from Weirdstuff a few months ago and made a few attempts at locating VMS for it. I've had no luck, and due to a new project I've gotten myself into, I'd really like to find a home for this critter. It's got 24MB RAM and a hard disk of some size (I knew this earlier today..). It's in nice physical condition save the flip down panel cover which got broken off. If anyone wants this, and is in the SF Bay area (the closer to Mountain View the better) please send me an email and we'l arrange a pickup time/date. This is free to a good home. ---------------------------------------------- PLEASE NOTE: This e-mail server will be in the process of transitioning from one IP address to another on 01/25/2003. If you experience un- deliverable email, bounced email, or other stangenesses, it is probably due to the move. Please try back in a couple of days if your mail to me gets messed up. --------------------------------------------------- From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 13 23:00:56 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: Was there a DEC LINC-5 (not -8)? In-Reply-To: <200301132117.h0DLHLg18384@io.crash.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Steve Jones wrote: > Something I've been wondering about -- my prep school had what I very > strongly remember being labeled as a LINC-5, definitely DEC, a large > cabinet with formica counter under a blinkenlight front panel. And > a TTY or Flex-o-writer positioned next to or mounted on an "L" or > return extension of the counter. The powder blue/lime green color > scheme from the LINC-8 photos looks right, but it was definitely in > the neighborhood of ~5 feet tall rather than a standard 19" rack. It > was built out of what must have been Flip Chips, in a cage around to > the right of the unit as you faced the console. Are you sure it wasn't a PDP-5? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 13 23:01:19 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? In-Reply-To: <3E22E401.19186.5C7A846@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Lawrence Walker wrote: > This isn't a put-on, is it Marvin ? The more I think about it, the less > believable it becomes. Yeah, how certain was it that the item in question was authentic? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jss at subatomix.com Mon Jan 13 23:01:43 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 /750 Diagnostics - new project In-Reply-To: <000f01c2bae7$1d472a10$cb87fe3e@athlon> References: <000f01c2bae7$1d472a10$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: <553683336.20030113225719@subatomix.com> On Monday, January 13, 2003, Antonio Carlini wrote: > If colour is involved then page size shoots up. I've not yet found a good > way of doing these. Scan as B&W for now. Store the paper in a safe place. Wait for data storage prices to decrease sufficiently. Scan in color. -- Jeffrey Sharp From livewire at netadel.com Mon Jan 13 23:02:22 2003 From: livewire at netadel.com (Live Wire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: DOS 1.0 References: <20030113185615.518.48355.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <000c01c2bb41$1f611680$0149030a@mohg.com> Message-ID: <004d01c2bb89$78b1d830$1e01a8c0@netadelxp> > infamous "This page intentionally left blank" page. What's up with that?? I have a stack of these pages ;) > I do also memember Wordstar and it's arcane command sequences. Those > commands persisted though, through a number of ordinary text editors for > programmers & such. http://sourceforge.net/projects/joe-editor/ This is as close to wordstar and the WS CTRL-K-x command set I have found. I used to use wordstar on a tiny portable computer with a 4 line display to write asm for the amiga 500 and then dump it via the built in modem. Joe is my favorite editor today, though I find myself living in vi for the most part... From jss at subatomix.com Mon Jan 13 23:02:44 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 /750 Diagnostics - new project In-Reply-To: <009401c2bb1a$4acd2f60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <000f01c2bae7$1d472a10$cb87fe3e@athlon> <009401c2bb1a$4acd2f60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <963714531.20030113225750@subatomix.com> On Monday, January 13, 2003, John Allain wrote: > Something probably should be said for GIF. And if you're going to use GIF, take a look at PNG. -- Jeffrey Sharp From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jan 13 23:07:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > More than that, IBM destroyed a lot of trade-ins and off-lease > hardware, in order to keep the new market up. They _say_ they no longer > do so. Burroughs and Univac were the ones that pulled this stunt, mostly. IBM did as well, but not nearly as much. Here is a thought - with all of these theories shooting around about why minicomputers are so popular - why do DGs and HPs not get the attention that DECs do? Sure, their market share was smaller (I recall on average, DG sold only one machine per DEC's five, and HP was maybe a little worse), but their following today is tiny. What do we have on this list - maybe a half dozen each of serious DG and HP nuts? Compared to scores of DECnuts? Once again, just an observation, and not really a slam on DEC. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Jan 14 00:00:01 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 Model 25 In-Reply-To: <1042500907.4151.32.camel@supermicro> References: Message-ID: <3E235426.311.77DC95E@localhost> I'm a heavy IBM collector, altho mainly MCA machines. I have several PCs, XTs, ATs, PCjrs, 2011, 2021, 2023, and 2033s and IBM monitors and keyboards. To me the model 25s have always been one of IBM failures, unlike the 30 and 286 30s, and I have never gone out of my way to acquire one. Everything I have read about them has been trouble and too little too late. What is this upsurge of interest with them ? Simply because they were an all- in one machine ? Then I would posit the 20xx line which like some Amstrads had electronics which wouldn't work unless you had the whole unit. And of course the many other all-in-ones like the PET or H-89 or many others. It was a design that had long been dead. Lawrence On 13 Jan 2003, , Jeffrey H. Ingber wrote: > I owned a model 25 a number of years ago. This one actually > had a 30MB HDD that used a seperate controller. I also had > an 8-slot ISA expansion box from a comapny called Pacific > Coast Horizons (PCH, I think that was the name of the > outfit). Also had an NEC CDR-72 single speed CD-ROM (SCSI) > and an MPU-401/MT-32 setup. > > Jeff > > > On Mon, 2003-01-13 at 16:38, Daniel Hicks wrote: > > > > Thanks, I am quite familiar with them. In my high school > > I was in charging of maintaining the ten that we had in a > > small computer lab. If I recall, they had 20-MB hard > > drives and a single 720-k floppy drive. we used DOS and > > WordPerfect 5.1 on them. The school gave them all to me > > after I graduated, and like a fool I trashed them (along > > with 10 model 80's, and 10 old Zenith machines) Now > > nostalgia is setting in and I would like to get my hands > > on one again. > > > > Dan > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John Allain" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 4:23 PM > > Subject: Re: IBM PS/2 Model 25 > > > > > > > > I am looking for a good, cheap PS/2 Model 25 (sx I > > > > think). ... Again, looking for cheap. > > > > > > Be prepared. Typically 25's are 8086 with no hard > > > drive. The options you want probably existed but would > > > make the model considerably rarer. > > > > > > John A. > > > > > lgwalker@ mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Jan 14 00:01:02 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? In-Reply-To: <3E234B43.31E5C22A@rain.org> Message-ID: <3E235426.5788.77DC9A4@localhost> Mind-boggling. Kind of like finding a Van Gogh in a garbage bin. Has he contacted Tesla's biographer Margaret Cheney (assuming she's still alive) ? She must have contacts to verify it's authenticity. Even analyzing it's construction could have possible clues for potential scientific advances. Wow. I'm blown away. I thought the state department had buried most of his stuff in their warehouses, other than than the miniscule amount they relunctantly gave back to his estate and the museum in the former Yugoslavia. It has been backhandedly acknowledged that the science behind Reagans "Star-Wars" initiative as well as the DODs HAARP project was based on papers they seized at his death, but even a smidgeon of understanding of his aproach could be invaluable. Lawrence On 13 Jan 2003, , Marvin Johnston wrote: > > No, this is not a put on and was told to me by the person > who bought it (and it went to a VERY good home!!!) Because > of its importance, the last I heard (about a year or two > ago) it was still being researched to verify its authentity. > What would make you think the person selling it would have > known what it was :) ??? The person who bought it just > happened to see a description that caught his eye; it is > doubtful anyone else (or at least VERY few people) would > have recognized it for what it was. > > Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > > On 13 Jan 2003, , Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > > > Ebay is a retail venue; most people don't expect > > > wholesale prices at Sears :). And there *have* been some > > > *incredible* buys on Ebay. Someone I know bought an item > > > on Ebay that just happened to be one of the two known > > > prototype motors built by Tesla. I don't recall the > > > pricing but I think it was less than $100. And for > > > someone who either doesn't have or who doesn't want to > > > take the time to do their own treasure hunting, Ebay is > > > an excellent choice. And the prices are mostly > > > reasonable. > > > > Now THAT is sick and only underlines the skewed > > bidding values that are EBay. That one of only 2 > > prototype Tesla motors could have even appeared on > > public auction is at the very least disgraceful and > > sickens me. How on earth could a forerunner of all AC > > motors by IMHO the greatest engineer of the 20th century > > even be released into the public domain. Either a sad > > comment on the lack of depth of education, or the success > > of Edison and his supporters to erase from history the > > name of this remarkable man. I dearly hope he is going to > > hold it in trust and eventually turn it over to a caring > > museum. > > > > To hell with all the Apple 1s, PDP-12s, or Altairs. > > Compared to this they are insignificant. I'm just > > surprised it didn't make headlines. > > > > This isn't a put-on, is it Marvin ? The more I think > > about it, the less believable it becomes. > > > > Lawrence > > lgwalker@ mts.net lgwalker@ mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Jan 14 00:01:23 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on EPay Message-ID: <3E235426.13020.77DC9E0@localhost> I buy and occasionally sell on EPay. Since I am out in the boonies now, I no longer have the luxury of a great curbside, dumpster, yardsale, or thrift-shop finds. While despite this, I did retrieve 2 DEC Pros from the town dump, and a complete Adam system, in the last 1 1/2 years here, and found a local salvager that gobbled up the remains of a government department that was closed down, there is very little available locally. It becomes a challenge to acquire even parts for your existing collection. From my perspective EPay serves a valuable function, and there are many of us far from urban centers. A recent request for Vax parts from a person. unexpectantly, in rural Alberta (Saskatchewan ?) drove that home to me, and it is true whether you're one of our strange breed, in India, Africa, or the Austalasia regions. One of my main beefs are the number of sellers in the US who restrict the volume of bids by refusing to ship to anywhere outside own their limited vision of the world. Either thru fear of unknown extra efforts, (which for the most part are minimal) or even ignoring the "will ship to" section. I routinely respond to something I'm interested in with "will you not ship to Canada" and the answer is almost invariably yes. They simply did the default form. Most Canadians are aware of this frustrating US national jingoism and rarely (never ?) do you find them posting similiar restrictions on sales because they know it simply involves filling out a small slip at the post office. The problems with the commercial shippers like UPS is a different number, and while it may work well in-country is a disaster outside. Similarly where I live, we pick up at the local post office so those who won't ship to a PO box are city dwellers who don't realise the realities outside the urban centers. Street addresses don't mean much here. Lawrence lgwalker@ mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Tue Jan 14 00:01:43 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: References: from "William Donzelli" at Jan 13, 3 11:46:24 am Message-ID: <3E235426.25911.77DC904@localhost> Unless you're into micros, and I have noticed for all the kerfaffle about some DEC, VAX, or HP minis, micros get a good proportion of interest on the list. Some weeks my finger is on the delete button most of the time, others I spend much too much time reading the messages. Lawrence On 14 Jan 2003, , Tony Duell wrote: > > Just an observation - this does show how DECcentric this > > list (and really, most of the big iron retrocomputing > > folks) is. There have been a > > You've made this comment before, and while I totally agree > with it, I think there are also possible reasons for it : > > 1) DEC machines tended to be owned, IBM machines were often > rented -> DEC machines were not returned when they were no > longer needed, but were pushed into storerooms, etc. > Whereupon mad hackers found them > > 2) DEC machines were often managed by hackers (and students, > etc), not the 'IBM priesthood'. > > 3) IBM development tools were supposedly hard to get, and > didn't always let yuo absh the bare metal > > 4) DEC machines have _execellent_ technical documentation. I > am told that full schematics of IBM machines of the period, > for example, are a lot harder to find. IBM also used a lot > of their own custom chips which makes reverse-engineering a > little more entertaining if the docs don't exist. > > -tony > lgwalker@ mts.net From jingber at ix.netcom.com Tue Jan 14 00:14:01 2003 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 Model 25 In-Reply-To: <3E235426.311.77DC95E@localhost> References: <3E235426.311.77DC95E@localhost> Message-ID: <1042524991.2292.11.camel@supermicro> On Tue, 2003-01-14 at 01:04, Lawrence Walker wrote: What is this upsurge > of interest with them ? Simply because they were an all- > in one machine ? Then I would posit the 20xx line which > like some Amstrads had electronics which wouldn't work > unless you had the whole unit. And of course the many > other all-in-ones like the PET or H-89 or many others. > It was a design that had long been dead. I assume this vitriol was aimed at myself since my reply is quoted below. The interest of the original poster stems from his previous encounter with the machine - not unlike many other machines which are collected simply out of nostalgia. I just though I'd share my setup for the very reason mentioned above. No more, no less. Jeff > > Lawrence > > > > On 13 Jan 2003, , Jeffrey H. Ingber wrote: > > > I owned a model 25 a number of years ago. This one actually > > had a 30MB HDD that used a seperate controller. I also had > > an 8-slot ISA expansion box from a comapny called Pacific > > Coast Horizons (PCH, I think that was the name of the > > outfit). Also had an NEC CDR-72 single speed CD-ROM (SCSI) > > and an MPU-401/MT-32 setup. > > > > Jeff > > > > > > On Mon, 2003-01-13 at 16:38, Daniel Hicks wrote: > > > > > > Thanks, I am quite familiar with them. In my high school > > > I was in charging of maintaining the ten that we had in a > > > small computer lab. If I recall, they had 20-MB hard > > > drives and a single 720-k floppy drive. we used DOS and > > > WordPerfect 5.1 on them. The school gave them all to me > > > after I graduated, and like a fool I trashed them (along > > > with 10 model 80's, and 10 old Zenith machines) Now > > > nostalgia is setting in and I would like to get my hands > > > on one again. > > > > > > Dan > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "John Allain" > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 4:23 PM > > > Subject: Re: IBM PS/2 Model 25 > > > > > > > > > > > I am looking for a good, cheap PS/2 Model 25 (sx I > > > > > think). ... Again, looking for cheap. > > > > > > > > Be prepared. Typically 25's are 8086 with no hard > > > > drive. The options you want probably existed but would > > > > make the model considerably rarer. > > > > > > > > John A. > > > > > > > > > > > lgwalker@ mts.net From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jan 14 00:18:01 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: Shark Update In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030113073004.00bae218@slave> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030112133540.0317da00@pop-server.socal.rr.com > <5.1.0.14.2.20030112001424.00b4d3c0@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030113180809.00a0cea0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> >The socket is the only bit I've not tried (haven't got any to hand, but >that's easy to fix). Where I mainly find the problem is getting the >connecting wire into the right place & actually getting it to solder in in >less time than it takes the plastic to melt... There is a goodie called a Third Hand, basically a small weighted base with two swively arms that end in alligator clips, and can easily be used by itself or a small vise or potatoe. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jan 14 00:18:22 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: NextCube --- Take it or leave it? In-Reply-To: <000c01c2ba9f$57735da0$020010ac@k4jcw> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030112181005.03276640@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030113173920.00a10a90@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 08:01 PM 1/12/03 -0500, you wrote: > I have an opportunity to trade a ThinkPad laptop straight across for > a N1000 NextCube, complete with monitor, mouse, keyboard, etc. The unit > is in good shape, and functions. I haven't had a IMHO the monitor etc shippiing exceeds the value, before considering the laptop which is a much easier to trade/sell item. OTOH if it was a very complete and working system, AND it was something you want to play with, what the heck. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jan 14 00:18:42 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? In-Reply-To: <01a901c2bb57$56d2ce40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <3E22E401.19186.5C7A846@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030113213657.00a21ec0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 04:58 PM 1/13/03 -0600, you wrote: >I REALLY don't want to start a long thread on ebay pros & cons, but the post >lawrence made got me thinking. I'll try to keep it lucid instead of trolling >;) I buy and sell on ebay, mostly buy at hamfests or scrapyards, and even buy a few things conventionally via B&M etc. Ebay is as successfull as it is because for a great many people it lets them sell items easier and for more money than any place else, AND for a great many people it lets them buy items easier and for less money than any place else. Stop griping, you wanna buy old computers from legacy support places? From dan at ekoan.com Tue Jan 14 00:23:00 2003 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: Fwd: Apple mouse needed in Belgium Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030114013504.03aabec0@enigma> Can anyone in Belgium help this fellow? >From: "Arthur Odekerken" >To: >Subject: Apple mouse >Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 23:51:07 +0100 > >Hi! > >I am a systems administrator at a cultural center in Belgium. We have 3 >light tables (12 years old) that are steered with a mouse but we only have >one mouse left. It was very hard for me to find a mouse that worked, >because it had to be a female DB9 Serial plug, with at least 7 cables >soldered. Finally I came across the Apple M0100 (Made in the U.S.A. type >590-0320). At your website I found some pictures of the same mouse. My >question now is, do you know where I can find such a mouse, because if I >don't find it, it could cost the centre a lot more money than just the >price of one mouse. > >Thanks! > >Arthur Odekerken From fernande at internet1.net Tue Jan 14 00:53:01 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E23B3E8.30004@internet1.net> William Donzelli wrote: >> More than that, IBM destroyed a lot of trade-ins and off-lease >>hardware, in order to keep the new market up. They _say_ they no longer >>do so. > > > Burroughs and Univac were the ones that pulled this stunt, mostly. IBM > did as well, but not nearly as much. Look where Unisys is today :-( They mostly sell intel based stuff. I know a few years ago they still marketed some A Series machines, but I think it existed as a carry over from an earlier time. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com Tue Jan 14 01:08:00 2003 From: 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com (No Junk Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on EPay Message-ID: <23515-30755@sneakemail.com> > One of my main beefs are the number of sellers in the US > who restrict the volume of bids by refusing to ship to > anywhere outside own their limited vision of the world. > Either thru fear of unknown extra efforts, (which for the > most part are minimal) or even ignoring the "will ship to" > section. My pet hate is people that charge 50% to 100% more postage to ship from the US to Australia than it actually costs. I have been gouged, *over*charged, an amount almost equal to the cost of the item before now. That is to say that on a US$25 item I might be charged US$35 postage, but it's only cost US$18 for them to post. I've walked away from purchases where postage costs have been this disproportionally high. Chris J. From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Tue Jan 14 01:14:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: DOS 3.20 Message-ID: Hmm... I'm ancient, not quite set in my ways, but close, and really want to get hold of that book. The shot at getting one on e-bay was pretty close (package, disk and all!), but the auction had already closed. Hmm. Do we have acces, somewhere, to a 'grand library of esoteric tech-dom?' Might find one there... -smiles- Cheers! Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, TX; USA Phone (210) 592-3110, Fax (210) 592-2048 edward.tillman@valero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of Sellam > Ismail > Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 11:55 AM > To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: DOS 3.20 > > On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Tillman, Edward wrote: > > > Any ideas where to find one now though? > > Try a local thrift store. If you don't find the manual you're looking > for, you may just find a good book on MS-DOS that has similar information. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3145 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030114/b2cd1110/attachment.bin From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Tue Jan 14 01:18:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: DOS 1.0 Message-ID: The "this page left blank" was a borrow from military 'technical orders.' Though quite stodgy about their regs t times, they mostly new that improvements and innovations would soon render a fixed document obsolete. So, they kept them in binders, replaced outdated pages with updated ones, and kept the "blank" pages as place holders (0's, if you like) for expansion beyond the then current document/section/segment length. Clear as mud? Cheers! Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, TX; USA Phone (210) 592-3110, Fax (210) 592-2048 edward.tillman@valero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of "Live Wire" > > Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 10:58 PM > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: DOS 1.0 > > > infamous "This page intentionally left blank" page. What's up with > that?? > > I have a stack of these pages ;) > > > I do also memember Wordstar and it's arcane command sequences. Those > > commands persisted though, through a number of ordinary text editors for > > programmers & such. > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/joe-editor/ > > This is as close to wordstar and the WS CTRL-K-x command set I have found. > I used to use wordstar on a tiny portable computer with a 4 line display > to > write asm for the amiga 500 and then dump it via the built in modem. > Joe is my favorite editor today, though I find myself living in vi for the > most part... > From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Tue Jan 14 01:18:21 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: DOS 1.0 Message-ID: The "this page left blank" was a borrow from military 'technical orders.' Though quite stodgy about their regs t times, they mostly new that improvements and innovations would soon render a fixed document obsolete. So, they kept them in binders, replaced outdated pages with updated ones, and kept the "blank" pages as place holders (0's, if you like) for expansion beyond the then current document/section/segment length. Clear as mud? Cheers! Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, TX; USA Phone (210) 592-3110, Fax (210) 592-2048 edward.tillman@valero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of "Live Wire" > > Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 10:58 PM > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: DOS 1.0 > > > infamous "This page intentionally left blank" page. What's up with > that?? > > I have a stack of these pages ;) > > > I do also memember Wordstar and it's arcane command sequences. Those > > commands persisted though, through a number of ordinary text editors for > > programmers & such. > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/joe-editor/ > > This is as close to wordstar and the WS CTRL-K-x command set I have found. > I used to use wordstar on a tiny portable computer with a 4 line display > to > write asm for the amiga 500 and then dump it via the built in modem. > Joe is my favorite editor today, though I find myself living in vi for the > most part... > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3364 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030114/b522aa06/attachment.bin From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jan 14 01:19:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> OTOH, the first two pieces of my classic computer collection are IBM, a >> hand-held card punch (still in almost prefect condition), and a wierd >> magtape. I've had both for 20-30 years. > >What is the magtape? I honestly don't remember, and as our apartment is currently torn up to turn the computer room into a nursary, I'm not sure where it is. It's about the size of a DECtape, but it's enclosed in a small clear boxish enclosure, with tape coming out of one end. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From GOOI at oce.nl Tue Jan 14 01:25:00 2003 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay Message-ID: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF6410CBA95@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> > -----Original Message----- > From: Chad Fernandez [mailto:fernande@internet1.net] > Sent: dinsdag 14 januari 2003 7:53 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: PDP-12 on eBay > > Look where Unisys is today :-( They mostly sell intel based > stuff. I know a few years ago they still marketed some > A Series machines, but I think it existed as a carry over > from an earlier time. I worked with SPERRY and later UNISYS 1100 machines. Big main frames. They have a 36-bit architecture and the nice part of if is that you can always read the octal dump, because a 36-bit word was always the complete instruction. With "multi-byte" instructions in a dump it is a bit more difficult to find the start of an instruction. SPERRY had a character set called FIELDATA. It is 6-bit (uppercase only), so you fit put 6 characters in one (36-bit) word. Later, somewhere around 1989, they introduced the 2200, the smaller version of the 1100, but runs the same instruction set. I vagely remember that the 2200 line was called the "A-series", as there was also a "B-series" as a result of the merger of SPERRY and BURROUGHS to the new UNISYS. But, I am not sure. I left that company (and fine 1100) in 1990 ... - Henk. From foo at siconic.com Tue Jan 14 02:30:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? In-Reply-To: <01a901c2bb57$56d2ce40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Jay West wrote: > I REALLY don't want to start a long thread on ebay pros & cons, but the post > lawrence made got me thinking. I'll try to keep it lucid instead of trolling > ;) Me either, since we've already been there, done that, got the t-shirt, then turned around and sold it on eBay. > The ebay seller on the other hand, doesn't have this luxury. No inventory. > Chances are he only has one item. Period. Forever. So it is clearly in his > best interest to get the highest possible price. And I can't blame them one > bit. The simple fact is... when a particular item on ebay goes for 100 times > the value WE think it should have, to the person who bought it... well, it > *IS* worth that much. And that's pretty much the definition of market > value - what someone is willing to pay. And the ebay seller's costs... they Define "market". If it sells for 100 times the average value that others would pay, is this "the" market? Or "a" market (a market of one)? > DO fluctuate wildly. One guy may have bought the system for $500 before > taking it to ebay, the other guy may have picked the same exact model system > out of a dumpster behind his apartment for zero cost. Another guy may have > emotional attachment which raises the price he would want. Others just have > an unrealistic idea of what a system is "worth", probably cause of ebay There are, and have been, for decades, valid mathematical and actuarial methods for determining the value of a given object based on several criteria, including of course supply and demand. Why should ending prices of eBay auctions all of a sudden supercede that science? > As a matter of fact, I would bet the fact that you can get well over $1K > for an Imsai 8080 on ebay, is DIRECTLY responsible for a LOT of Imsai > 8080's NOT going into the dumpster. And I would guess that a probably equal number of IMSAI's did not go to the trash because the owner just couldn't get him/herself to simply throw it out. I've heard this story a lot. Heck, I have IMSAIs because of this reason. > Is that such a bad thing? And when you have everything needed > to make a system run except ONE single missing card... is it bad that > you find that holy grail card on ebay? I don't think so. Not if it gets > another vintage machine up and running. Yes, eBay is good for finding something that you really, really need and don't want to spend weeks or months searching for, and in that regard you are paying a premium for that luxury. Outside of eBay, that luxury is not afforded, and so therefore the price one must pay for the item outside of eBay should not follow eBay guidelines. > So I guess I have to say I both love, and hate, ebay at the same time. It is > not a good indicator of the "collectible value". Or even of true market value based on statistical means and averages. > But it is a very good indicator ... and 2-What was it worth on that > particular date and time. Which is not at all useful for long-term market valuation. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Jan 14 02:35:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: IBM system 3 In-Reply-To: <20030114033304.433.qmail@web40701.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Bill Allen Jr wrote: > i was about to load them into my car - when i thought > why, i'll never find anything more for this comp > no docs or hd's,printer etc. > > it turns out that i left 460/470 cpu's go for scrap! DOH! DOH!! DOH!! > one note - i am glad that the VCF does have a complete > four phase system 470 perserved - that fact alone > help's me sleep at night when i remember my mistake of > leaving the cpu's in the scrapper. Actually, I've since discovered it's an IV-90. I'm still after the ever elusive IV-70. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Jan 14 02:39:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? In-Reply-To: <016501c2bb72$1b28cdc0$7a00a8c0@themillers> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Nick Miller wrote: > I agree with Marvin, I've had great luck on eBay. Finding a BYT-8 for $75 > and an MITS Altair 8800 full of Rev 0 boards and a C8080-8 CPU for $1250 was > a great rush. ? $1,250 is what I would call about mean value for an Altair 8800. If that gave you a rush then more power to you. > I've sold an Apple II+ to Richard Garriot and bought a > Heathkit H-11 from Jon Titus, don't sell it short. eBay works great if you > don't bid against idiots and always keep a lookout for the bargains. I can agree with that. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Tue Jan 14 03:30:01 2003 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on EPay In-Reply-To: <23515-30755@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <3E236738.15516.1B8A0EA8@localhost> From: "No Junk Mail" <3sdiarftt02@sneakemail.com> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Re: Help with pricing on EPay Send reply to: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date sent: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 18:11:08 +1100 > > > One of my main beefs are the number of sellers in the US > > who restrict the volume of bids by refusing to ship to > > anywhere outside own their limited vision of the world. > > Either thru fear of unknown extra efforts, (which for the > > most part are minimal) or even ignoring the "will ship to" > > section. > > My pet hate is people that charge 50% to 100% more postage to ship > from the US to Australia than it actually costs. I have been gouged, > *over*charged, an amount almost equal to the cost of the item before > now. That is to say that on a US$25 item I might be charged US$35 > postage, but it's only cost US$18 for them to post. > > I've walked away from purchases where postage costs have been this > disproportionally high. I always try to give bidders some idea of what the shipping costs are going to be. I start by stating what the total estimated weight of the package is, then give a link to the USPS Domestic and International Rate Calculators and make sure that my ZIP code shows up in the Location section of the listing. If a package is going to be under 1 pound, then I state that shipping will be $3.85 for USPS Priority Mail for U.S. bidders. If it is a real small item, such as a video game cartridge for example, then I state a flat $2.50 U.S. or $4.50 overseas to cover 1st Class (or Air Mail) postage and the cost of a padded envelope. If it is books, magazines, computer software, music, videos, or several game cartridges, then I go with USPS Media Mail (stateside). For heavy items, USPS Parcel Post is best, and overseas, I will offer USPS Air Parcel, Surface Parcel, or even Global Express. And sometimes, I list Global Priority as an additional option. When all is said and done, I try to keep the package weight as close as possible to what I had estimated. If it is significantly less than the estimate, I will either refund the difference (if payment was via PayPal) or spend the excess on insurance and/or delivery confirmation. If I underestimated, then it's "too bad, so sad, my loss", and just go ahead and absorb the extra expense (though quietly hoping that the buyer might decide to reimburse the difference if he notices when the package is received.) :) As for those who will only ship within the U.S.; I can understand a few reasons for that, though most of the time, I think it's just laziness. In some cases, there may be export restrictions. A prime example was the MS Outlook CD I recently sold. Right on the front label on the case was printed "Unlawful to sell this outside of the U.S. or Canada" (or something to that effect); so naturally I had to limit it to the U.S. and Canada. Also, on one occasion (it was for a Girls Gone Wild DVD), in the Will Ship To Section, I had to select U.S. and everything except for The Middle East, due to extreme Muslim anality on how much flesh can be shown. :/ There are also USPS size restrictions for both Air and Surface Mail going overseas. You can find the info somewhere on their web site: usps.com About the only other time I have limited an auction to U.S. bidders was when I tried to sell a couple Cromemco systems via eBay. My reason for limiting the ship-to location was because I was covering shipping (UPS in this case) myself, and had set the opening bid and the BIN with what I figured the average cost to ship anywhere in the lower 48 States would be. Neither of them received any bids unfortunately. However, one of my buyers from a couple TI-99/4a auctions I did is now in the process of purchasing them. He is in Canada, and is willing to pay shipping costs (any excess of which will be reimbursed). The biggest challenge is going to be finding boxes large enough and strong enough to hold a System Two and System Three (at least UPS will come pick them up.) Fortunately, I have time to work this detail out due to the way we have arranged payment and shipping into three parts (starting with just the software and manuals...) Anyway, enough babbling from me for tonight. About time to go catch a few Z's and sleep off this migraine. :/ -- Scarletdown From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jan 14 03:41:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn Message-ID: <20030114094401.20770.qmail@web21101.mail.yahoo.com> Rob, > BBC mostly, though not in a "must have everything" sense. Just because I > spent many years making a sort of living off them. I've got one of Acorn's > original ARM development systems though (connects to the BBC) which I've > had since they were hot off the press. Is that the "ARM evaluation unit" (or labelled as something similar)? I've got one of those *somewhere* but no docs / software for it. Think it had 4MB of memory which was a reasonable amount in those days. I've got a whole pile of other BBC and related stuff, but I've generally forgotten what I have - your posting made me remember the ARM unit. Funny how people don't remember the BBC systems that well - I suppose they were generally quite expensive to have at home (compared to the Spectrums and C64 machines) and in a school environment people didn't get much of a chance to really play about with them. They're certainly quite well designed machines... cheers Jules __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From classiccmp at crash.com Tue Jan 14 03:53:00 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: Was there a DEC LINC-5 (not -8)? Message-ID: <200301140955.h0E9t7g20039@io.crash.com> > > There actually may be more PDP-12s out there today than there are PDP-8s > > or PDP-8/Is. Certainly more than the PDP-8/S or LINC-8 machines. > > If only I could find a LINC-8. :-/ Something I've been wondering about -- my prep school had what I very strongly remember being labeled as a LINC-5, definitely DEC, a large cabinet with formica counter under a blinkenlight front panel. And a TTY or Flex-o-writer positioned next to or mounted on an "L" or return extension of the counter. The powder blue/lime green color scheme from the LINC-8 photos looks right, but it was definitely in the neighborhood of ~5 feet tall rather than a standard 19" rack. It was built out of what must have been Flip Chips, in a cage around to the right of the unit as you faced the console. Sadly they decommissioned it after my first year (1981/82), and I never got a chance to learn anything about it - it was reserved for upper classmen only. Also, the sole teacher who understood the beast (Mr. Garrison, noted for his gruff nature and pipe smoking) was leaving or retiring after that year. Is my memory faulty and this had to be a LINC-8, or was there such a thing as a LINC-5? Thanks, --Steve. LINC Links: The LINC: An Early "Personal Computer" [Quick history. --S.] http://www.ddj.com/documents/s=1493/ddj0004hc/do200007hc001.htm Laboratory Instrument Computer (LINC) "The Genesis of a Technological Revolution" [Nice, narrative history of the original development. --S.] http://www.nih.gov/od/museum/exhibits/linc/main.html What different PDP-8 models were made? http://www.faqs.org/faqs/dec-faq/pdp8/section-6.html From amanise at mscn.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 14 04:46:24 2003 From: amanise at mscn.demon.co.uk (Adrian Manise) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: HP9000 Workstations References: Message-ID: <02a801c2bbba$ab7e7da0$0501010a@l0h0n4> Thanks very much. I like the binary dinosaurs bit - sums up precisely how I feel ;-) I get the feeling these things are going to cost money to get rid of rather than be of any use to anyone. Never mind. It's worth taking a moment to think, though, that these things represent about ?32k of 1992 money. A friend of mine still works for an HP VAR(which I also used to work at around that time) and recently had a clearout of their stocks and spares. When they'd finished filling two large skips full of old cream boxes, the reckoned that there was about ?2 Million worth of gear at the original sale values sitting out in the car park. The moral is - put the damned things to work early!! Cheers folks Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Witchy" To: Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 11:41 AM Subject: RE: HP9000 Workstations > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Adrian Manise > Sent: 13 January 2003 10:27 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: HP9000 Workstations > > >Please forgive my ignorance in this respect, but are HP9000 series 300 and > 700 workstations considered classic computers yet. The ones I'm thinking of > were new around about 1992, and are pretty well complete - although the > owner can't get them to boot now. You might have seen my list of stuff I > posted here last week - same stuff. > > The list used to concentrate on stuff older than 10 years old, so you're OK. > I've got a 9000-400 (I think) in a cupboard somewhere, but the only reason I > got it was it came with a multisync 19" monitor which was summat I didn't > have in 2000 :) Pity it got damaged when I was crashed into whilst driving > home and I still haven't got round to fixing it yet. If anyone wants it they > can have it. There's a v.poor 'taken-with-old-digital-camera-in-poor-light' > picture of it here: http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/hp/hpapollo.jpg. > > >Are they desirable at all - or just old boxes? The lack of interest might > have been because I stated thet they were uk based, do any other Brits > subscribe to this list? > > It's just a box to me; like I say, I picked it up because of the monitor. > There's maybe half a dozen of us who are active posters and who knows how > many lurkers..... > > cheers > > -- > adrian/witchy > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans > From paul at ease.co.uk Tue Jan 14 07:02:25 2003 From: paul at ease.co.uk (Paul Haines) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: New to List Message-ID: Hi all I?m new to this, but IBM AS/400 and larger mainframes are my interests. Paul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030114/f15f66ba/attachment.html From collison at cnri.reston.va.us Tue Jan 14 07:33:17 2003 From: collison at cnri.reston.va.us (Ron Collison) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: Dos V3.2, V3.10, & V2.0 - who was looking for this? Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030114082930.00b713a0@mailbox.cnri.reston.va.us> I found several versions of DOS in my collectibles, incl.: DOS V3.10 on 51/4 floppies with ref manual, user's guide, & applic setup guide DOS V2.0 on 51/4 floppies with ref manual DOS V3.2 users guide [may have the OS on floppies, but would need to determine interest prior to searching] Anyway, there was some traffic a few days ago from someone looking for an early version of DOS on floppies, 51/4 I think So, anyone out there interested? From collison at cnri.reston.va.us Tue Jan 14 07:34:16 2003 From: collison at cnri.reston.va.us (Ron Collison) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: Clinton Macintosh Repair & Maintenance manual Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030114083500.00b649c0@mailbox.cnri.reston.va.us> Anybody have an interest in this? From collison at cnri.reston.va.us Tue Jan 14 07:39:16 2003 From: collison at cnri.reston.va.us (Ron Collison) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: Xenix OS for early generation IBM PC Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030114083615.00b64710@mailbox.cnri.reston.va.us> Title on unopened box: "IBM Personal Computer XENIX Software Development System" - its on 51/4 floppies. Includes the Xenix Operating System and documentation, etc. This a new package, e.g. still shrink wrapped. Min. config. requirements on PC is 512K Ram & 20Mb HD Anyone interested? From collison at cnri.reston.va.us Tue Jan 14 07:41:16 2003 From: collison at cnri.reston.va.us (Ron Collison) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: Macro Assembler for early generation PC Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030114084121.00b71770@mailbox.cnri.reston.va.us> I found the tech ref manual in my collectibles, but will have to look for the software if anyone is interested? From collison at cnri.reston.va.us Tue Jan 14 07:44:16 2003 From: collison at cnri.reston.va.us (Ron Collison) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: 8086/8088 Primer - an intro to the Architecture, System Design, & Programming Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030114084315.00b72550@mailbox.cnri.reston.va.us> I found a manual in my collectibles, "The 8086/8088 Primer - An Introduction to Their Architecture, System Design, and Programming" Anyone interested? From ejchapel at attbi.com Tue Jan 14 07:48:00 2003 From: ejchapel at attbi.com (Ed Chapel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:22 2005 Subject: Fwd: Apple mouse needed in Belgium Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030114054740.00b4c838@mail.attbi.com> I have a M0100 mouse in good condition. Contact me for if you are still looking. Ed Chapel Vancouver WA USA >From: "Arthur Odekerken" >To: >Subject: Apple mouse >Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 23:51:07 +0100 > >Hi! > >I am a systems administrator at a cultural center in Belgium. We have 3 >light tables (12 years old) that are steered with a mouse but we only have >one mouse left. It was very hard for me to find a mouse that worked, >because it had to be a female DB9 Serial plug, with at least 7 cables >soldered. Finally I came across the Apple M0100 (Made in the U.S.A. type >590-0320). At your website I found some pictures of the same mouse. My >question now is, do you know where I can find such a mouse, because if I >don't find it, it could cost the centre a lot more money than just the >price of one mouse. > >Thanks! > >Arthur Odekerken From glenn.miller at mac.com Tue Jan 14 07:50:18 2003 From: glenn.miller at mac.com (Glenn A. Miller) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: Macro Assembler for early generation PC In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030114084121.00b71770@mailbox.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: On 1/14/03 8:42 AM, "Ron Collison" wrote: > I found the tech ref manual in my collectibles, but will have to look for > the software if anyone is interested? > Is that the tech ref manual with the bios listing? From cpg at aladdin.de Tue Jan 14 07:51:01 2003 From: cpg at aladdin.de (Christian Groessler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: Xenix OS for early generation IBM PC Message-ID: <200301141354.OAA13207@panther.aladdin.de> On 01/14/2003 08:41:05 AM EST Ron Collison wrote: > >Anyone interested? I'm interested. regards, chris From Mzthompson at aol.com Tue Jan 14 08:28:01 2003 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: Dec 3000/300 keyboard/mouse box Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jan 2003; Steven Nikkel scribbled: > I recovered a couple Dec 3000/300 machines at work, with keyboards > and mice and can't find any of the keyboard/mice break out boxes. > What do they look like? Or where can I find them inexpensively? First of all, a RANT: Why is it that when a company takes a machine out of service, the first thing they do is toss the cables. Over the years I have scrounged a few DECstations only to find that the video cables were nowhere to be found. I also managed to haul home several VXT2000 workstations but only one video cable amongst all of them. $&^%**&%% Anyway. It is not so much a breakout box as it is a (rather long) cable with a molded box on the end of it. The box contains the sockets for the keyboard and mouse. I put together some info a while back and I will just paste it to the end of this. Hope it helps, Mike Thompson P.S. I have to wonder, now that you know what you are looking for, if it might not be worth another search around work. DECstation 5000 keyboard/mouse cable and related info --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- The DECstation 5000 has a 15 pin (male) D connector on the back for keyboard and mouse connections. There is a cable that plugs into the 5000 connector and has a keyboard socket (RJ-11) and a mouse socket (7 pin mini-din) on the other end. The part number for the cable is 17-02640-01. A reader of a previous version of this has confirmed from the manual EK-PELCN-OG for the Dec 3000/300L AXP that the same cable is used on that series of machines. He also confirmed the following pinout information. For a keyboard, use a LK201, LK401, or LK402. For a mouse, use a VSXXX-AA (round hockey puck) or VSXXX-GA (rectangular). CABLE INFO The cable pinout (from the DECstation 5000/240 manual) is: Pin Signal Desc. 1 GND Ground (to keyboard socket) 2 KEY.TX Keyboard transmitted data 3 KEY.RX Keyboard received data 4 +12v Keyboard power 5 GND Ground 6 MSE.RX Mouse received data 7 MSE.TX Mouse transmitted data 8 GND Ground (to mouse socket) 9 GND Ground (to mouse socket) 10 NC 11 NC 12 NC 13 +5v Mouse power 14 -12v Mouse power 15 GND Ground (to mouse socket) I have also verified the above info with a VOM. KEYBOARD INFO As for the keyboard, I had a couple of them open a while back (to clean out the cookie crumbs) and traced them out somewhat. Looking into the end of the plug on the cable coming from the keyboard. |------------| | o o o o | | B R G Y | |___| |___| |____| B - Black - Data from keyboard R - Red - +12v to keyboard G - Green - Ground Y - Yellow - Data to keyboard And looking into the socket on the end of the 17-02640-01 cable: (also applies to the keyboard socket on a terminal such as a VT420) |------------| | o o o o | | Y G R B | |___| |___| |____| Pin Y to pin 3 of the 15 pin D connector on cable 17-02640-01 G to pin 1 ... R to pin 4 ... B to pin 2 ... I do not include pin numbers for the keyboard connector because I have found on-line references to some of this info and in some cases the pin numbers differ. Your mileage may vary. MOUSE INFO As for the mouse, you will find the pinouts below and the signals. Please note that the pin numbers may not be the official DEC numbers. Here again, I have seen on-line references to some of this info and the pin numbers differ. Looking into the plug coming from the mouse: 5 6 7 o o o 4 o === o 1 o o 3 2 1 - -12v 2 - Data to mouse 3 - Ground 4 - Data from mouse 5 - +5v 6 - nc 7 - nc And looking at the socket on a machine or end of the 17-02640-01 cable: 7 6 5 o o o 1 o === o 4 o o 2 3 Pin 1 to pin 14 of the 15 pin D connector on cable 17-02640-01 2 to pin 6 ... 3 to pins 8, 9, & 15 ... 4 to pin 7 ... 5 to pin 13 ... 6 nc 7 nc From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jan 14 08:32:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay Message-ID: <20030114143513.74327.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com> >On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, John Honniball wrote: > There's one in the Science Museum (London) collection. It appeared in > Tim Hunkin's "Secret Life of Machines" TV series a few years ago. I missed the context of this, but that grabbed my attention. Is it actually *at* the Science Museum - or out at Wroughton? I only recently found out that all the large stuff is kept off-site there and can be visited by prior arrangement; I must go for a wander around sometime... cheers Jules __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jan 14 08:36:01 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: [for sale] IBM 5100 + IBM 5120 Message-ID: <20030114143926.32466.qmail@web21110.mail.yahoo.com> > Is it possible to just put the unzipped files on your web server? I don't > like to download zips. Oh, I do. It goes really well with all the HTML markup that turns up here :-) cheers Jules __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Tue Jan 14 09:02:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? Message-ID: One could always do a mean and standard deviation on a group of eBay prices and get a reasonable measure of what a typical price might be. Still, you cannot deny that the extreme prices are actual prices that somebody paid. Just don't expect to get that much every time (or even ever again). Bob -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 2:30 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Help with pricing on vintage computers? There are, and have been, for decades, valid mathematical and actuarial methods for determining the value of a given object based on several criteria, including of course supply and demand. Why should ending prices of eBay auctions all of a sudden supercede that science? From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Tue Jan 14 09:06:00 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: Y2K/Y10K for V5.03 of RT-11 References: <200212191839.NAA76406593@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <3E242825.67604A4B@compsys.to> >Megan wrote: > I'm interested in what you propose, but suspect that Y10K would > be overkill at this point. I'd like to see design discussion > opened up for that... but it may all be moot since it wouldn't > be compatible with V5.4, V5.5, V5.6, V5.7... Jerome Fine replies: This is my first design discussion proposal. Please note that it is VERY preliminary and VERY subject to change. Also, while the initial goal is for a Y2Y/Y10K V5.03 for RT-11, I VERY much have in mind V5.04x, V5.05, V5.06 AND most definitely V5.07 of RT-11. Finally, any additional bug fixes and other enhancements to all of the above versions should also be able to exist under the same design. In fact, probably the best way to be sure would be to first apply the design to V5.07 and only afterwards retrofit the changes to V5.03 of RT-11 along with all versions in-between. Since a public release of any changes to V5.07 (even for a hobby release - which is why the initial release will target ONLY V5.03 and it will be licensed ONLY to hobby users) seems unlikely to be in the cards for many years, perhaps many decades, let us be content that at least V5.03 is available. Having said the background, let's begin! (a) All changes will be compatible with all versions of RT-11 from V5.03 up to V5.07 (b) All changes will be implemented in a manner which allows ALL of the changes to be made inoperative via a simple SET command such as: SET NEWFIX OFF/ON/ALL in addition to individual changes being selected via: SET DATE [NO]Y2K SET DATE [NO]Y10K Anyone who likes a different expression other than "NEWFIX" that is 6 letters or less - please suggest. If there are no alternatives to (a) and (b) that are practical, then my next design discussion will be to specify the actual bits to be used. However, if there is no feedback indicating any interest, then I might just skip that stage and go right to the code along with a release of RT11FB and /or RT11XM based on the distributed V5.03 of RT-11. The monitors would be followed by DIR, PIP, IND MACRO, etc. The implications of (a) and (b) seem quite obvious, but I would appreciate some feedback. One implication is that one of the still available bits (out of two that remain) in the high order byte of SYSGEN (offset 372) probably needs to be used - or some other bit which is presently still available in one of the CONFIG words (that V5.03 already uses - since V5.07 uses additional CONFIG words) and which V5.07 does NOT already use. As for the reasons for (a) and (b), the primary advantage is that it should be possible to easily determine (when any bugs which appear - and they almost always do) if the bug is due to the modified code or the original code. If both (a) and (b) are not appropriate, then alternative suggestions would be appreciated. So long as Mentec allows only V5.03 to be used by hobby users, then I don't see another alternative that would allow all of the code to be compatible with all versions from V5.03 up to V5.07 of RT-11. Obviously if Mentec made V5.07 available to hobby users (which seems to be VERY UNLIKELY right now), then all of the bug fixes and enhancements could easily be made available to all users - with Mentec being free to sell V5.07 to those commercial users who wish to take advantage of the bug fixes and enhancements. In addition, with V5.07 already being Y2K compliant, the first priority would be bug fixes to V5.07 rather than taking the effort to make V5.03 Y2K/Y10K compliant. If anyone sees a flaw in the logic of this paragraph, please help me understand what it is. Another alternative would be for Mentec to at least allow V5.06 (released August 1992 - thus now more than 10 years old) for hobby use as opposed to V5.07 (released November 1998 - so now more than 4 years old). Since V5.06 is identical in its overall structure to V5.07, then anything done for V5.06 would also work on V5.07 of RT-11. But based on the length of time that an upgrade to the hobby license has been under discussion, I just can't see that it is likely to happen very soon. If this post is unable to generate any feedback, then I will probably proceed for a while on my own. There are a number of individuals who have asked for copies of the software as it becomes available. I have not yet arranged for a web site which will carry it, so based on the current lack of interest, it should be easy to just e-mail to the few people that want the files. Please e-mail me if you are one of those people. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Tue Jan 14 09:28:20 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay) References: Message-ID: <3E242D18.70001@Vishay.com> William Donzelli wrote: > This seems to be a good test to see if you are an official old-timer in > the computer collecting hobby - passing up a free machine that today > people would kill for. > > I have been there, many times (IBM, Amdahl, DG). How about others? The worst thing I ever had to see so far was a DECsystem-10 (KL10 CPU) go into the dumpster. It was a complete computing center, including (IIRC) 3M words (36 bits each) of MOS memory, two RP06 disk drives, one RP07, TU77 tape, a frontend (PDP-11 with 96 serial lines), Ethernet, and a line printer. The printer alone was so heavy that we needed four people to navigate it out of the room, even though it was on wheels. Only the plotter (a Benson 1322, tractor-feed paper, something close to a meter wide, with two vacuum columns similar to tape drives) was kept. This must have been in the late 1980s, the site had been started in 1972 with a KA10 and then upgraded stepwise. I joined the staff in the early 80s. The successor was a pair of VAX-11/750 and later a 6310, an 8600, and, in 1992, one of the first Alphas. There are other computing centers I had to see go away (VAXen, two CI clusters, let alone the smaller stuff), but the -10 hurt me most. I wish I had the space, air condition, and power (I was told the CPU alone needed 27kW) to keep this beautiful system. Does that qualify for an "official old-timer"? Rumor had it that there was a whole bunch of -10s at some Scandinavian university (Oslo? Stockholm?) in the 1980s. Anybody know what became of those? -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From cb at mythtech.net Tue Jan 14 09:30:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on EPay Message-ID: > One of my main beefs are the number of sellers in the US >who restrict the volume of bids by refusing to ship to >anywhere outside own their limited vision of the world. >Either thru fear of unknown extra efforts, (which for the >most part are minimal) or even ignoring the "will ship to" >section. I routinely respond to something I'm interested >in with "will you not ship to Canada" and the answer is >almost invariably yes. They simply did the default form. You'll be happy to know, that I check that I will ship to Canada. I've only done a few auctions, but those that I have done, I always say yes to Canada. Not to other places, but that is going to change... I have been limiting my ship to range only because I am new at auctions and want to get a feel for it before I have to start deailing with international shipping. But I've sent enough items to Canada in the past, that I'm comfortable with what's involved with it. > The problems with the commercial shippers like UPS is a >different number, and while it may work well in-country is >a disaster outside. This is my major problem with shipping outside the US (minus canada). I have heard horror stories about UPS and FedEx going to other countries. So when I am counting on using FedEx for delivery, I worry about what is going to be involved with getting the package to the person if they aren't in North America. So my line of thought has been... let me get the auction concept under my belt... then I'll work on the international shipping issues. -chris From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Jan 14 09:32:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? References: Message-ID: <00a101c2bbe2$7219ed60$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Sellam wrote... > Define "market". If it sells for 100 times the average value that others > would pay, is this "the" market? Or "a" market (a market of one)? I would suspect that if someone paid it, it is "a" market. But not of one, it's a market of all the people who bid on it, or wanted to but got scared off by the price. Of course it's not the only market. > There are, and have been, for decades, valid mathematical and actuarial > methods for determining the value of a given object based on several > criteria, including of course supply and demand. Why should ending prices > of eBay auctions all of a sudden supercede that science? Because the science is WRONG. Period. If "established" practice says an item is worth say $10, but most of those items sell for $100 on ebay, then, well, yeah, the science is flat wrong - at least as far as predicting what an item is worth in terms of dollars that people will pay for it. Well, ok, maybe the science is right in theory, but in practice, it's just plain wrong. > Yes, eBay is good for finding something that you really, really need and > don't want to spend weeks or months searching for, and in that regard you > are paying a premium for that luxury. We totally agree on this point. But look at the bigger picture. For you, in your particular geography with your particular circle of friends, a given system may be easy to find. For someone else, in their geographical area, in their circle of friends, that system just can't be found. So who says your "ability to acquire" should set a more "valid" price than the ability of others to acquire the same item? Most of us here are fairly long time collectors. Most of us have our sources, and know just what dumpster to dive in or what scrap metal dealer to go to in order to find something. We are NOT the norm. Other people who have just a passing interest, or aren't collectors but just want one particular old system, don't have those resources. I suspect that as far as a head count goes, they are in the majority. Their ability to acquire should be given a higher weight. > Which is not at all useful for long-term market valuation. Perhaps. But I suspect that most of us are more concerned with "what am I going to have to pay to get that one missing card from my xyz system to get it up and running", than "wonder what a museum would pay for my system". That's us... and for the non-collectors, when they ask about prices it's because they want to know what they can get for it, and ebay prices should be included in that type of valuation. Anyways... here's my own personal paradigm for what it's worth. I vastly prefer to trade or just plain give away excess stuff for free, among collectors where I suspect it won't get hung on a wall, it'll get used. However, from time to time I DO have to pay what I consider to be STUPID amounts of money for something I need and can't find. I have to pay this to ebay or to old equipment vendors. As a result, once in a while, as much as I dislike it, I have to sell a classic computer on ebay to cover my real $$$ costs to get a system up and running. Just my own 2 millidollars worth. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Jan 14 10:10:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on EPay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3E244574.15880.5DDFEC5D@localhost> > > One of my main beefs are the number of sellers in the US > >who restrict the volume of bids by refusing to ship to > >anywhere outside own their limited vision of the world. > >Either thru fear of unknown extra efforts, (which for the > >most part are minimal) or even ignoring the "will ship to" > >section. I routinely respond to something I'm interested > >in with "will you not ship to Canada" and the answer is > >almost invariably yes. They simply did the default form. > You'll be happy to know, that I check that I will ship to Canada. I've > only done a few auctions, but those that I have done, I always say yes to > Canada. Not to other places, but that is going to change... I have been > limiting my ship to range only because I am new at auctions and want to > get a feel for it before I have to start deailing with international > shipping. Well, as long as we are talking about Europe or Japan, There's no big difference to the US. I've send stuff both ways, and never had a failiure. > > The problems with the commercial shippers like UPS is a > >different number, and while it may work well in-country is > >a disaster outside. > This is my major problem with shipping outside the US (minus canada). I > have heard horror stories about UPS and FedEx going to other countries. > So when I am counting on using FedEx for delivery, I worry about what is > going to be involved with getting the package to the person if they > aren't in North America. I can't realy speak for other countries than the US and Germany (although it is quite similar for other European countries), but the best to use are the traditional services, so for the US this would be the USPS. UPS and FedEx are quite more expensive without offering any additional benefit. Also ther service on the reciveing side, at least here in Europe, is not existing. Deutsche Post (as partner for USPS) offers repeated delivery, or local pickup, and storage up to 30 days before the package gets returned. UPS for example tries just two times, and then you'll get a week to schedule another atempt. If you'r not able to arange a delivery, a pickup is only possible at their centre, middle of nowhere, miles outside the city. Also the only case where I lost a shipment once was UPS. Same with an urgent delivery of an airplane ticket I did thru FedEx. I did send them on Wendsday, to be delivered before Sunday, they told me it would be there (in a mayor German city) on Friday. I even payed additional Saturday delivery just to be shure. Guess what - of course the tickets where NOT deliverd in time. If I had send them with regular mail, the chance may have been quite higher. Of course I didn't get any cent back. Anyway, use the good old USPS. Maybe their aperance and reputation is not as fancy as other companies, but you'll get a decent service and high reliability. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From mrbill at mrbill.net Tue Jan 14 10:19:16 2003 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: [MichaelDumas1@aol.com: VAX 4000-700 computer Center] Message-ID: <20030114162232.GU27741@mrbill.net> Located in Memphis, TN - please contact him directly if interested. Bill ----- Forwarded message from MichaelDumas1@aol.com ----- From: MichaelDumas1@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:16:00 EST Subject: VAX 4000-700 computer Center To: mrbill@decvax.org I have a complete computer center for sale and liquidation. The server is a Vax 4000/600 which I believe was upgraded to a 700 SCSI Card 128MB Winchester Flash Cluster 32 GB of storage Decserver 700 24 VT420 Terminals 2 Rack Cabinets (smoked glass) 1 UDS Modem Rack w/ 14 Modems and 2 Power supplies 2 remote WAN Muxes Datability VCP 1000 Xerox 9-track 6250 tape drive 2 DAT Units 1 600LPM Printer 4 Monarch Computer Center Cabinets (pull down steel doors) 4 metal tape stands lots of VAX manuals, parts and accessories Need to sell, deinstall, or give away. Any ideas? Michael Dumas (901)737-7009 ----- End forwarded message ----- -- bill bradford mrbill@mrbill.net austin, texas From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jan 14 10:21:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: Wicat 150 Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030114112927.46ff723c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi, I just checked the Wicat that I picked up recently. It powers up and gives a flashing block cursor on the screen but no other screen display. Is that normal? The hard drive spins up and recalibrates after about ten seconds but it's not being accessed otherwise. Any sugggestions? This one came from the Navel Training systems Center in Orlando Florida and it's very clean inside and has a full set of cards including what I think is a 2nd (optional) memory card. There's also a CMI 5619 hard drive in it. Joe From cmurray at eagle.ca Tue Jan 14 10:22:00 2003 From: cmurray at eagle.ca (C. Murray McCullough) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: Hackers Guide to the APPLE II Message-ID: <3E2439D1.1286425A@eagle.ca> Hi all Does anyone know where I can get the Hackers Guide to the Apple II. I know the controversy surrounding the subject but this Guide was mostly directed to the hardware-side of the Apple and permitted one to program it to control gadgets around the house. Many thanks. Murray-- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030114/a6da275c/attachment.html From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 14 10:25:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: IBM Data Cell (was Re: PDP-12 on eBay) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030114162836.71436.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >> OTOH, the first two pieces of my classic computer collection are IBM, > >> a hand-held card punch (still in almost prefect condition), and a > >> wierd magtape... > about the size of a DECtape, but it's enclosed in a small clear boxish > enclosure, with tape coming out of one end. Sounds like an IBM Data Cell. I forget the model number, but the nickname was the "Noodle Picker" (or "Noodle Stuffer" when it would jam). I have one "noodle", but no box. A buddy of mine here in town got a handful of them 20 years ago. He laments not grabbing any boxes. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jan 14 10:28:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: Wicat computer? In-Reply-To: <006901c29cb4$4adc67c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <3.0.6.16.20021205173812.44c77524@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030114113642.21f717f2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi John, At 06:16 PM 12/5/02 -0500, you wrote: >or, this system can be had free for pickup. I overlooked this before. Where are you located? Joe From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Jan 14 10:40:01 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: Possibly interesting tape drive available In-Reply-To: <20030114162836.71436.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005a01c2bbec$11522fb0$020010ac@k4jcw> Lloyd at Austin Electronics (www.austinelex.com) has what appears to be a 9 or 7 track tape drive sitting on the shelf. This unit is about 20" high, 12" wide, and 12" deep. The model number is "1053D", and it seems to be badged as an "Acknowledge" tape drive (I assume this is a private label, and not something to do with the roll it was used in). There are no indications of manufacture on it. It's in a beige powder coated box, and looks like it was intended to either bolt to the side of something, or free-stand on a desk. It's definitely not configured for rack mounting. It looks to be pretty clean, but I know nothing about tape drives. I didn't have my digital camera with me, so I couldn't take a picture. If anyone is interested, or perhaps even has an idea what this drive is from my poor and vaguely worded description, I'd kind of like to know. If you're interested in it, call Lloyd. Contact information is on the web page. In talking with him, a few years ago (prolly more like 8 or 10 at this point), he paid $250 for a room full of junk from Grady Hospital, and wound up with two IMSAI 8080s, and at least one of them had a dual-drive Helios setup (oh, how I want a 4 drive unit). The was also telling me about the PDP-8/I he let go for $50. I was wimpering... I never find deals like that. He doesn't buy lots like he used to, but I did tell him that if he finds anything he's not interested in the bottom of a rack or room full equipment, to call me. While I may not be able to keep much of it, and least we can prevent it from being dumpsterized, if it's worth anything to anyone. --John From allain at panix.com Tue Jan 14 10:43:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: Wicat computer? References: <3.0.6.16.20021205173812.44c77524@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030114113642.21f717f2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <00e001c2bbec$846b5da0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I overlooked this before. Where are you located? The system is spoken for. John A. From allain at panix.com Tue Jan 14 10:44:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: Wicat 150 References: <3.0.6.16.20030114112927.46ff723c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <00e501c2bbec$8bd89c60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > It powers up and gives a flashing block cursor on the screen > but no other screen display. Is that normal? The Wicat I have (temporarily) is terminal based, not video monitor based, so a flashing cursor in that case would say terminal-status:OK; system-status:unknown-or-broken *only*. > Any sugggestions? If the disk drive has a seperate power switch, try turning it on first with enough time to spin up, then the CPU. Try to locate a boot (not power) switch. Thatzit. John A. From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Jan 14 10:45:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: IBM Data Cell (was Re: PDP-12 on eBay) In-Reply-To: <20030114162836.71436.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > >> OTOH, the first two pieces of my classic computer collection are IBM, > > >> a hand-held card punch (still in almost prefect condition), and a > > >> wierd magtape... > > about the size of a DECtape, but it's enclosed in a small clear boxish > > enclosure, with tape coming out of one end. > > Sounds like an IBM Data Cell. I forget the model number, but the > nickname was the "Noodle Picker" (or "Noodle Stuffer" when it would > jam). > > I have one "noodle", but no box. A buddy of mine here in town got a > handful of them 20 years ago. He laments not grabbing any boxes. This sounds like the tape for the IBM 3480 (or 3490,etc) tape drives. We've got a couple drives here for the Administrative group - used to have more but they went to get salvaged (and I ended up selling the 'drive' part of the cabinets..) We still have a 3480 and a 3490 here. The 3480 is the size of a washing machine and has a pair of drives - the 3490 is the size of two side-by-side refrigerators, and has 4 (?) drives and a large autoloading mechanism. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Jan 14 10:49:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? In-Reply-To: <00a101c2bbe2$7219ed60$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3E244E9E.17799.5E03B928@localhost> > > Define "market". If it sells for 100 times the average value that others > > would pay, is this "the" market? Or "a" market (a market of one)? > I would suspect that if someone paid it, it is "a" market. But not of one, > it's a market of all the people who bid on it, or wanted to but got scared > off by the price. Of course it's not the only market. > > There are, and have been, for decades, valid mathematical and actuarial > > methods for determining the value of a given object based on several > > criteria, including of course supply and demand. Why should ending prices > > of eBay auctions all of a sudden supercede that science? > Because the science is WRONG. Period. If "established" practice says an item > is worth say $10, but most of those items sell for $100 on ebay, then, well, > yeah, the science is flat wrong - at least as far as predicting what an item > is worth in terms of dollars that people will pay for it. Well, ok, maybe > the science is right in theory, but in practice, it's just plain wrong. Science ? Well, I'd go for common sense, and eBay is missing a lot of that. Fist, yes, it's a kind of a market, but not in a traditional sense, and not in the sense the usual economy theories use this term. To form a reliable (sometimes called true) price, several things need to come together. The most important is that the goods in question have to be comperable (standardised) and in a steady supply, right after followed by theneed for informed participants (Beside that, unrestricted access for sellers and buyers is the next one). And here already eBay fails. There are no standardized goods, nor is the suppl steady nore are Buyers and sellers 'informed'. EBay is just a collecion of non connected, single sales. Each may be described as a market in itself. but together they don't form single market and don't deliver true meter for prices. A stock exchenge, a quite good example for a true market, builds a price by leveling up all 'buy' and 'sell' at a given time. If a stock exchange would work like eBay, we could still live a fine life without all these financial news. Now one may argue, that eBay may have some of the fast pace of a s(t)ock exchange, but is rather like a classic business. Well, not wrong, but still the compareable offers (standardized product) and the steady supply is missing. The eratic prices at eBay are exacly a sign for these missing elements. In a classic market place, price changes are done with a damping. A grocery store doesn't rise it's prices as soon as the first customer is willing to pay the asked price, nor does it lower it if one is not willing to pay. The owner will watch his customers and compare to his competitors and rise or lower the price acordingly. Also as any real merchant he will include things like his price to buy or produce the goods and other factors like storage cost (if the goods are storeable at all). I think I don't have to mention the influence of 'marketing' the difference between a hyped up sale and a two liner can be a hunded times. All these things missing or not valid on eBay (when looking at classic computers). Therefore eBay does not deliver a dependable price line. Each and every auction just accounts for itself. Of couse, with proper knowledge and very carefull handling eBay may give hints about a general direction - but these are often more nothing else then general indicators to the over all economical situation. Sallams attempt to see eBay as a pure statistical source and normalizeing the prices by building averages and ignoring outliers may not be wrong, but there is still the problem of comperable goods. One just cant put a TRS-80 M1 Keyboard, a full unit (including the CRT) and a beautifull setup with all bells and whissles into one calculation. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From marvin at rain.org Tue Jan 14 11:17:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: Xenix OS for early generation IBM PC References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030114083615.00b64710@mailbox.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <3E2446B1.E2B53D7C@rain.org> I *think* the complete set consists of about 8 different binders including OS, editor, IIRC a C compiler, etc. Ron Collison wrote: > > Title on unopened box: "IBM Personal Computer XENIX Software Development > System" - its on 51/4 floppies. Includes the Xenix Operating System and > documentation, etc. This a new package, e.g. still shrink wrapped. Min. > config. requirements on PC is 512K Ram & 20Mb HD > Anyone interested? From classiccmp at crash.com Tue Jan 14 11:42:00 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: Was there a DEC LINC-5 (not -8)? Message-ID: <200301141744.h0EHieg20803@io.crash.com> Sellam wrote: . >> strongly remember being labeled as a LINC-5, definitely DEC, a large . > Are you sure it wasn't a PDP-5? It definitely said LINC - the questionable part is that I think it said '-5', but I've never heard of a LINC-5 since then. I would've remembered if it said PDP-5. I'm beginning to think I must have gotten the number wrong somehow... In which case, it was still a pretty uncommon beast to come across, even though I didn't really get to know it. Can anyone say how tall a LINC-8 stood? Perhaps the countertop we had under the console was a post-sale addition. This comes partly from staring at the picture of a LINC-8 here: http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/vs-dec-linc-8.jpg Thanks, all. --Steve. From foo at siconic.com Tue Jan 14 11:45:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Feldman, Robert wrote: > Still, you cannot deny that the extreme prices are actual prices that > somebody paid. Just don't expect to get that much every time (or even > ever again). Actually, that's not necessarily true. Unless you follow-up and actually confirm with the buyer and/or seller, you don't know if such an auction was consumated, and so that price point is not automatically valid. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From classiccmp at crash.com Tue Jan 14 11:49:00 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: [MichaelDumas1@aol.com: VAX 4000-700 computer Center] Message-ID: <200301141752.h0EHpvg20825@io.crash.com> This computer center is also listed on eBay, FYI: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1479&item=2300985733 --S. From foo at siconic.com Tue Jan 14 12:05:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? In-Reply-To: <00a101c2bbe2$7219ed60$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Jay West wrote: > > There are, and have been, for decades, valid mathematical and actuarial > > methods for determining the value of a given object based on several > > criteria, including of course supply and demand. Why should ending prices > > of eBay auctions all of a sudden supercede that science? > Because the science is WRONG. Period. If "established" practice says an > item is worth say $10, but most of those items sell for $100 on ebay, > then, well, yeah, the science is flat wrong - at least as far as > predicting what an item is worth in terms of dollars that people will > pay for it. Well, ok, maybe the science is right in theory, but in > practice, it's just plain wrong. The science is wrong, or the people bidding are wrong? Suppose 10 people pay $20 for a 3-inch long Lhasa-Apso turd on eBay because the seller says it's magical. A few other people auction a similar item and for a short time a frenzy is created. Finally, people start to realize that their turd just stinks and is not magical, and the hype dies down. The next time you go to buy manure, should you expect the price to be inflated a bit because of the "magical" turd that once sold for $20 on eBay? Ok, now consider that this did happen with the Commodore 64. A machine produced in the millions, one would occasionally sell on eBay for some stunning amount (well over $100). Is it valid to consider that all C64s are worth a bit more now because a few foolish people paid more than $100 for them at some point? Hardly. The fact is, the science is correct. Given enough time, the price will come back down to a level that is in line with the supply and demand of a particular item. This is just not always obvious on eBay. > > Which is not at all useful for long-term market valuation. > Perhaps. But I suspect that most of us are more concerned with "what am I > going to have to pay to get that one missing card from my xyz system to get > it up and running", than "wonder what a museum would pay for my system". > That's us... and for the non-collectors, when they ask about prices it's > because they want to know what they can get for it, and ebay prices should > be included in that type of valuation. I disagree, because as I have argued, eBay prices are unreliable. > However, from time to time I DO have to pay what I consider to be STUPID > amounts of money for something I need and can't find. I have to pay this to Me too. But I don't expect to recoup that investment later on, because there was a "I need it now" premium on the price I paid. The price would be an anomaly, and would be thrown out of any statistical analysis. > ebay or to old equipment vendors. As a result, once in a while, as much as I > dislike it, I have to sell a classic computer on ebay to cover my real $$$ > costs to get a system up and running. Just my own 2 millidollars worth. Because you know it will get far more on eBay than if you were to just sell it through other channels. Right? :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Jan 14 12:08:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: Hackers Guide to the APPLE II In-Reply-To: <3E2439D1.1286425A@eagle.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, C. Murray McCullough wrote: > Does anyone know where I can get the Hackers Guide to the Apple II. I > know the controversy surrounding the subject but this Guide was mostly > directed to the hardware-side of the Apple and permitted one to program > it to control gadgets around the house. Don't worry, we have extra strong encryption on this list so that government agents can't spy on what we say ;) I've never heard of this book. Was it a book? Or a textfile? Is that the correct title? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Innfogra at aol.com Tue Jan 14 12:12:00 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: International shipping Message-ID: <6.74a0f00.2b55adc0@aol.com> I sell all over the world and have no troubles with it, many times the cost of shipping is more than the cost. I almost always use the US Postal System for overseas shipment. They have reliable systems and treat packages much better than UPS. Global Priority mail for items under a kilo is very easy and the USPS will even provide envelopes and boxes for small stuff. The Post Office also has a software program that will allow you to calculate shipping anywhere in the world besides the US. It is the USPS Postal Assistant and you can get it on CD or download it from the USPS. Since the rate charts need regular updating it is easier to use the download. There are interesting differences over the world. For instance Global priority will not work to Italy, only regular air post. These are easy to figure out with the USPS software. The USPS is also very competitive on shipping to other countries. When I do estimates of cost, the USPS always wins over sending by UPS, Airborne or Federal Express. FedEx often comes in second by the way. USPS works internationally, quite well. Paxton Astoria, OR From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jan 14 12:16:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: DOS 1.0 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In addition, there was the simple issue of bookbinding. Some producers of manuals had a "style" that demanded that every chapter MUST start on an odd numbered page. That would force close to half of the preceding chapters to be padded out with an extra page for alignment. In addition, the "signatures" for bookbinding are fixed sizes, typically 16 pages. If they wanted a section to start in a fresh signature, it required padding. The phrase "this page intentionally left blank" was necessary to make it clear that a page was padding, not a printing error: "this page accidentally left blank". On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Tillman, Edward wrote: > The "this page left blank" was a borrow from military 'technical orders.' > Though quite stodgy about their regs t times, they mostly new that > improvements and innovations would soon render a fixed document obsolete. > So, they kept them in binders, replaced outdated pages with updated ones, > and kept the "blank" pages as place holders (0's, if you like) for expansion > beyond the then current document/section/segment length. Clear as mud? > Cheers! From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Jan 14 12:19:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: Was there a DEC LINC-5 (not -8)? In-Reply-To: <200301141744.h0EHieg20803@io.crash.com> Message-ID: > Can anyone say how tall a LINC-8 stood? Perhaps the countertop we > had under the console was a post-sale addition. This comes partly > from staring at the picture of a LINC-8 here: 6 foot wide rack - at least the ones I have seen. Just like a PDP-12 (except I think the "side door" swings the other way). William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From ipscone at msdsite.com Tue Jan 14 12:23:00 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? In-Reply-To: References: <00a101c2bbe2$7219ed60$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <59356.130.76.32.20.1042568783.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> > On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Jay West wrote: > >> > There are, and have been, for decades, valid mathematical and >> actuarial methods for determining the value of a given object based >> on several criteria, including of course supply and demand. Why >> should ending prices of eBay auctions all of a sudden supercede that >> science? The science is wrong. That science is based on a supply that is offered to the demand audience. And that demand audience has always been limited and local (for the most part). With the internet, the demand now is expanded to millions of people. As far as the supply, it can be said that the supply has also expanded. But the reality is that the supply, for the most part, was a fixed number that has decreased since the items were manufactured. So we have an ever expanding demand with a shrinking supply. So, while the model is correct, the parametric values are all wrong and need updating to reflect a global demand, now. From morgan at cleptoscastle.com Tue Jan 14 12:35:38 2003 From: morgan at cleptoscastle.com (Lady Morgan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: Clinton Macintosh Repair & Maintenance Manual Message-ID: I would be very interested in any Macintosh literature anyone may have that they do not need. Thank you. Morgan From edsa at alphalink.com.au Tue Jan 14 13:11:08 2003 From: edsa at alphalink.com.au (Ed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: Fw: KIM audio files Message-ID: <004101c2bb89$d76c2e20$4166a1ca@user> Hi. Do you own the KIM-1 Repository website? I tried sending to the following email addr given on the page but it bounced... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 2:37 PM Subject: KIM audio files > Hi, > > I've "just stumbled over The KIM-1 repository" :) > > I don't have a KIM-1 myself though I've had an interest in things > 6502 having once owned a UK101, C64 etc. > > I was particularly interested in your sampled KIM programs. > > I've also been experimenting with the computer programs stored > on audio cassette. My webpage has an encoder/decoder for Kansas > City Standard formatted tapes. www.alphalink.com.au/~edsa > > I noticed your WAV files are 16 bit mono, 11025 samples/sec. > I've found that using a resolution of 8-bits is more than adequate > for this type of task. Using 8 bit would cut your filesize by half! > > While researching the Kansas City Standard tape format, I read a > comment suggesting this was also used by KIM. However some > digging indicated this was not so. > > Since completing the KCS program, I felt the techniques used > could be adapted for just about any format including KIM. > However I wasn't sure how much demand there might be for a > KIM version. If you or other KIM users would be interest in > such a program, let me know. > > regards, > Ed > > From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Jan 14 13:12:10 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: Dec 3000/300 keyboard/mouse box In-Reply-To: <3E238DA5.17622E07@ertyu.org> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Steven Nikkel > Sent: 14 January 2003 04:10 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Dec 3000/300 keyboard/mouse box > > > I recovered a couple Dec 3000/300 machines at work, with keyboards > and mice and can't find any of the keyboard/mice break out boxes. > What do they look like? Or where can I find them inexpensively? They're rectangular boxes about 2"x1"x1" with the kbd/mouse ports and a long plastic strip for sitting the monitor on top of to hold them in place, with a D15 on the other end. Got a couple in a box somewhere so I can do a quick pic, but I'm in the UK which probably doesn't help :) -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From bluepearl8 at mac.com Tue Jan 14 13:12:32 2003 From: bluepearl8 at mac.com (Maryann DeMatteo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: OT: paging MAC expert(s) --- What's a Performa Message-ID: Hi, I have an old macintosh portable I bought in 1995. I have no idea what it is worth but I love it. I am also not very computer literate. I also own a macintosh preforma 6360. I now own an imac. Maryann DeMatthews From mediaking8 at libero.it Tue Jan 14 13:12:53 2003 From: mediaking8 at libero.it (Carlo Gandolfini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: Let Programmers Worldwide Bid On Your Tech Projects Message-ID: <200301141616.h0EGGMh13638@huey.classiccmp.org> Can you imagine being able to post any kind of computer project and have a variety of programmers from this country as well as all over the world bid on it? It is the power of outsourcing merged with the power of auction bidding, and may the best man win. Our programming team can handle anything you have in mind: C++, Oracle, Java, ASP, Visual Basic, Web design, business applications, security and cryptography, database apps, and anything else you want to post. They work on all operating system platforms: .NET, Windows CE, Palm, as well as platforms you never heard of. And it costs you nothing up front to post a job. Just pay a very small commission if and when you find a programmer that meets your needs.

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search words: suspensory warday angloman textman hypinosis chromophilous -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030114/5a02c6f5/attachment.html From vance at neurotica.com Tue Jan 14 13:13:16 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 Model 25 In-Reply-To: <007201c2bb4a$0052de00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: There were versions with 8086, with 80286, 80386 (rarer than the previous two), and 80486 (never released, but you can still find them if you look hard enough). I have a 25XP-486 upgraded with an Evergreen AMD 486-133. It rocks. Peace... Sridhar On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, John Allain wrote: > > I am looking for a good, cheap PS/2 Model 25 (sx I think). > > ... Again, looking for cheap. > > Be prepared. Typically 25's are 8086 with no hard drive. > The options you want probably existed but would make > the model considerably rarer. > > John A. > From vance at neurotica.com Tue Jan 14 13:13:40 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: <3E22E401.17962.5C7A7F6@localhost> Message-ID: I have a model 80 that has all sorts of neat features that I most certainly would *not* let go for $2000. I wouldn't in 2027, that's for sure. And a model 80 cost $10,000 with the smallest available disk and 2 MB RAM. My uncle's (which he bought for his business, and I now have) was $16,000 new. Peace... Sridhar On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Lawrence Walker wrote: > On the other hand, an IBM 8580 PS/2 cost around > $10,000 in 87 and I acquired one for $10 in 97. I'd > gladly part with an 8580 for $2000. Even $20 for that > matter. > > Lawrence > > On 12 Jan 2003, , ben franchuk wrote: > > Considering the Going Cost of a PDP-12 was around > $28,000 in > 1969 getting it for 5,000 2003 dollars is cheap. Ben. > > > lgwalker@ mts.net > From vance at neurotica.com Tue Jan 14 13:14:04 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I know for a fact that they keep a fairly large stock here in Poughkeepsie. Peace... Sridhar On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Just an observation - this does show how DECcentric this list (and > > > really, most of the big iron retrocomputing folks) is. There have been a > > > > You've made this comment before, and while I totally agree with it, I > > think there are also possible reasons for it : > > > > 1) DEC machines tended to be owned, IBM machines were often rented -> DEC > > machines were not returned when they were no longer needed, but were > > pushed into storerooms, etc. Whereupon mad hackers found them > > More than that, IBM destroyed a lot of trade-ins and off-lease > hardware, in order to keep the new market up. They _say_ they no longer > do so. > > Doc > From coredump at gifford.co.uk Tue Jan 14 13:14:28 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: Dec 3000/300 keyboard/mouse box References: <3E238DA5.17622E07@ertyu.org> Message-ID: <3E245F91.8080706@gifford.co.uk> Steven Nikkel wrote: > I recovered a couple Dec 3000/300 machines at work, with keyboards > and mice and can't find any of the keyboard/mice break out boxes. > What do they look like? Or where can I find them inexpensively? They are just a cable with a 15-pin "D" connector at one end and a plastic block at the other with a 4-pin RJ-11 socket and a mini-DIN socket. Hard to find! But I've seen one, and traced the wiring (at the local Linux user group meeting). I can post a wiring list if anyone's interested. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Jan 14 13:14:53 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: Utter eBay Madness (was help w/pricing) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Jay West wrote: > > > > There are, and have been, for decades, valid mathematical and actuarial > > > methods for determining the value of a given object based on several > > > criteria, including of course supply and demand. Why should ending prices > > > of eBay auctions all of a sudden supercede that science? Mathematic *this*!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2900526350 I am only the Messenger, and for those of us who prefer not to follow links... this auction (which ended *sucessfully*!!!) was for an 'egg' that her *CAT* 'laid' after "...ten minutes of shrieking and acting really bizarre.." Someone, possibly Short, Dark, and Handsome, paid a dollar for it. I'm just in awe. Off topic, but a fairly Cool Site: somebody is trolling eBay and culling out the wierder stuff - and collating it in one place for your Bemused Enjoyment: www.whowouldbuythat.com And I used to think that ASCII art of Nekkid Wimmin was the ultimate perversion of technology.... Cheerz John From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Jan 14 13:15:21 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: Further Ebay Madness: On topic Message-ID: One of the Tandy 486 machines from the Treasury Sale of the old Mustang Ranch brothel in Nevada... data intact!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=179&item=2084442322 Asking $895.00 - auction ended - nobody bid. 10 OPEN REG #mind(brain)((skull)) 20 SET (@boggle = TRUE) 30 CLOSE ((skull))(brain) 40 PONDER {world_is_getting_wierd} Cheerz John From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jan 14 13:16:23 2003 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 12:10 AM, William Donzelli wrote: > Here is a thought - with all of these theories shooting around about > why > minicomputers are so popular - why do DGs and HPs not get the attention > that DECs do? Sure, their market share was smaller (I recall on > average, > DG sold only one machine per DEC's five, and HP was maybe a little > worse), > but their following today is tiny. What do we have on this list - > maybe a > half dozen each of serious DG and HP nuts? Compared to scores of > DECnuts? DECnuts. :-) Am I the only one who burst into hysterical laughter upon reading that? -Dave -- Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Jan 14 13:23:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > DECnuts. :-) Am I the only one who burst into hysterical laughter > upon reading that? It is better than Big Blue Balls. (that is the feeling one gets when no cool old IBM stuff hasn't come into the collection lately) William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Jan 14 13:29:00 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: Dec 3000/300 keyboard/mouse box In-Reply-To: <3E238DA5.17622E07@ertyu.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Steven Nikkel wrote: > I recovered a couple Dec 3000/300 machines at work, with keyboards > and mice and can't find any of the keyboard/mice break out boxes. > What do they look like? Or where can I find them inexpensively? > > -- > Steven Nikkel > I have _many_, where are you located? Peter Wallace (SF Bay area) From foo at siconic.com Tue Jan 14 13:46:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: International shipping In-Reply-To: <6.74a0f00.2b55adc0@aol.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jan 2003 Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > The Post Office also has a software program that will allow you to > calculate shipping anywhere in the world besides the US. It is the USPS > Postal Assistant and you can get it on CD or download it from the USPS. > Since the rate charts need regular updating it is easier to use the > download. I just use the internet tool which is easier yet. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Jan 14 13:49:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? In-Reply-To: <59356.130.76.32.20.1042568783.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Mike wrote: > The science is wrong. Luddite ;) > That science is based on a supply that is offered > to the demand audience. And that demand audience has always been limited > and local (for the most part). With the internet, the demand now is > expanded to millions of people. > > As far as the supply, it can be said that the supply has also expanded. > But the reality is that the supply, for the most part, was a fixed number > that has decreased since the items were manufactured. > > So we have an ever expanding demand with a shrinking supply. So, while > the model is correct, the parametric values are all wrong and need > updating to reflect a global demand, now. You just finished saying the science is wrong, but everything after that indicates that you agree completely with its premise. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ipscone at msdsite.com Tue Jan 14 14:17:00 2003 From: ipscone at msdsite.com (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:23 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? In-Reply-To: References: <59356.130.76.32.20.1042568783.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Message-ID: <51323.130.76.32.20.1042575632.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Didn't I say the model was correct but the parametric values were wrong? science - systematized knowledge derived from observation, study, and experimentation. So, if that "observations, studies, and experiments" are wrong, then the "science" is wrong. I never said the model was wrong. > On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Mike wrote: > >> The science is wrong. > > Luddite ;) > >> That science is based on a supply that is offered >> to the demand audience. And that demand audience has always been >> limited and local (for the most part). With the internet, the demand >> now is expanded to millions of people. >> >> As far as the supply, it can be said that the supply has also >> expanded. But the reality is that the supply, for the most part, was a >> fixed number that has decreased since the items were manufactured. >> >> So we have an ever expanding demand with a shrinking supply. So, >> while the model is correct, the parametric values are all wrong and >> need updating to reflect a global demand, now. > > You just finished saying the science is wrong, but everything after that > indicates that you agree completely with its premise. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Jan 14 14:18:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: Motorola VME cards Message-ID: I've just run over probably 100-200lbs (45-90kg) of Motorola VME cards... from 68010 processor cards, to memory, and I/O cards. Now, there's not chance I would want to hold on to these, so I'm wondering if anyone else is interested in some of the cards. I can't guarantee anything now, just tell me if you're interested or not. I'll try to get some cards to whoever is interested. I haven't looked at the cards much yet, so I don't exactly know what's there for I/O and memory cards. There might also be a power supply or two and maybe an intact backplane bus card (the few I saw were snapped in half). Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Jan 14 14:24:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? In-Reply-To: <59356.130.76.32.20.1042568783.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Mike wrote: > >> > There are, and have been, for decades, valid mathematical and > >> actuarial methods for determining the value of a given object based > >> on several criteria, including of course supply and demand. Why > >> should ending prices of eBay auctions all of a sudden supercede that > >> science? > > The science is wrong. That science is based on a supply that is offered > to the demand audience. And that demand audience has always been limited > and local (for the most part). With the internet, the demand now is > expanded to millions of people. > > As far as the supply, it can be said that the supply has also expanded. > But the reality is that the supply, for the most part, was a fixed number > that has decreased since the items were manufactured. > > So we have an ever expanding demand with a shrinking supply. So, while > the model is correct, the parametric values are all wrong and need > updating to reflect a global demand, now. My argument on this thread would be that Ecomonics isn't really a science in my eyes. So it's not that eBay is wrong or that the "science" is wrong; it's just that there's no reasonable model for predicting classic computer prices, yet. Mostly, I feel it comes down to personal decisions based on any number of factors, some of which include: amount of expendible income, the amount of free time, location, and interest in the item in question. If I didn't have a job and instead had plenty of free time, I'd certainly be inclined to spend a lot more of that free time hunting down bargains. But I don't have that sort of free time because I'm employed full time. What I do get instead is a decent income in trade for that time, and I can spend that income on equipment made available through eBay. I'm willing to pay more money for items on eBay because it saves me the time of hunting down the equipment on my own. When I look at the opportunity cost of doing my own hunting, the cost of aggressively hunting doesn't make any sense for me. I'd actually be losing lots of money by doing it. Time is money. Great, so I find a $10 computer in the wild that would've cost me $50 on eBay, but I spent two hours finding it at an opportunity cost of $100 of lost wages. By doing this, I've just shot myself in the foot. Instead of paying $50 for it on eBay, I've effectively spent $110 for it. The `hunt' is also easier in certain locations than others, depending on what you're trying to find. In Silicon Valley, or any large built up area, I'm sure the pickings are a lot easier than in say... the northern reaches of Canada. That doesn't mean won't look for bargains in my spare time--but there's not a lot of that with my other projects. I also spend a lot of time using and working with my computers, and reading the wonderful ClassicCmp mailing list! In my case, I'd rather be spending my time playing instead of collecting--but those are personal priorities. -brian. From coredump at gifford.co.uk Tue Jan 14 14:37:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay References: <20030114143513.74327.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E2475C8.7090204@gifford.co.uk> Jules Richardson wrote: > I missed the context of this, but that grabbed my attention. Is it actually > *at* the Science Museum - or out at Wroughton? When I saw it, and when Tim Hunkin filmed it, it was in the old canteen behind the Science Museum. Right next to the Pegasus and the Elliott 803, in fact (both also shown by Tim Hunkin). Nowadays, the Pegasus is in the main museum, but I don't know where the PDP-12 is. There's a Classic PDP-8 at Wroughton. Wroughton's worth a visit on one of the regular open days. I think there's a calendar of open days on the museum web site: http://www.nmsi.ac.uk/ Oh, and Tim Hunkin can be found here: http://www.timhunkin.com http://www.secretlifeofmachines.com/index.shtml -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From msspcva at yahoo.com Tue Jan 14 14:45:00 2003 From: msspcva at yahoo.com (Clayton Frank Helvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: Motorola VME cards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030114204826.62974.qmail@web41102.mail.yahoo.com> Patrick: I may be interested in some of these, especially if there is a backplane and one of the processors has an Ethernet port. Some of the I/O cards may also be handy. A 68010 must be what, 15 years+ old? I'm not that familiar with the architecture; I've used 68040s and up on VME. What if any O/S is there? Do you know how these were used? I'm interested in getting some realtime/embedded hardware to play with. Let me know, Frank --- Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I've just run over probably 100-200lbs (45-90kg) of > Motorola VME cards... > from 68010 processor cards, to memory, and I/O > cards. Now, there's not > chance I would want to hold on to these, so I'm > wondering if anyone else > is interested in some of the cards. I can't > guarantee anything now, just > tell me if you're interested or not. I'll try to > get some cards to > whoever is interested. > > I haven't looked at the cards much yet, so I don't > exactly know what's > there for I/O and memory cards. There might also be > a power supply or two > and maybe an intact backplane bus card (the few I > saw were snapped in > half). > > Pat > -- > Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu > ===== = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= Clayton Frank Helvey, President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com ============================================================ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From marvin at rain.org Tue Jan 14 15:04:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? References: Message-ID: <3E247C1B.3CB5801D@rain.org> Brian Chase wrote: > > Mostly, I feel it comes down to personal decisions based on any number > of factors, some of which include: amount of expendible income, the > amount of free time, location, and interest in the item in question. > > If I didn't have a job and instead had plenty of free time, I'd > certainly be inclined to spend a lot more of that free time hunting down > bargains. But I don't have that sort of free time because I'm employed > full time. What I do get instead is a decent income in trade for that > time, and I can spend that income on equipment made available through > eBay. I'm willing to pay more money for items on eBay because it saves > me the time of hunting down the equipment on my own. When I look at the > opportunity cost of doing my own hunting, the cost of aggressively > hunting doesn't make any sense for me. I'd actually be losing lots of > money by doing it. Time is money. Great, so I find a $10 computer in > the wild that would've cost me $50 on eBay, but I spent two hours > finding it at an opportunity cost of $100 of lost wages. By doing > this, I've just shot myself in the foot. Instead of paying $50 for it > on eBay, I've effectively spent $110 for it. I think your point of opportunity costs is a great one that is missed by a lot of people in all lines of work, not just ebay. For example, some things are more common in certain geographical regions than in others. It doesn't make a lot of sense to spend a small fortune in travel costs to save a relatively smaller amount of money ... at least if money is the concern :). Some people knock the ebay prices without knowing the background or motivation of the buyer. Your post starts to put some perspective on that! From msell at ontimesupport.com Tue Jan 14 15:05:01 2003 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: Motorola VME cards In-Reply-To: <20030114204826.62974.qmail@web41102.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030114150640.02b2ada8@127.0.0.1> At the chemical plant I used to work at, the Texas Instruments operators workstations ran off of a MVME Motorola 68xxx-based VME chassis. It ran some form of Berkeley -derived UNIX. It had SCSI hard drives, a tape backup, serial ports, and ethernet. - Matt At 12:48 PM 1/14/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Patrick: > >I may be interested in some of these, especially if >there is a backplane and one of the processors has an >Ethernet port. Some of the I/O cards may also be >handy. > >A 68010 must be what, 15 years+ old? I'm not that >familiar with the architecture; I've used 68040s and >up on VME. > >What if any O/S is there? Do you know how these were >used? I'm interested in getting some >realtime/embedded hardware to play with. > >Let me know, > >Frank > > > >--- Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > I've just run over probably 100-200lbs (45-90kg) of > > Motorola VME cards... > > from 68010 processor cards, to memory, and I/O > > cards. Now, there's not > > chance I would want to hold on to these, so I'm > > wondering if anyone else > > is interested in some of the cards. I can't > > guarantee anything now, just > > tell me if you're interested or not. I'll try to > > get some cards to > > whoever is interested. > > > > I haven't looked at the cards much yet, so I don't > > exactly know what's > > there for I/O and memory cards. There might also be > > a power supply or two > > and maybe an intact backplane bus card (the few I > > saw were snapped in > > half). > > > > Pat > > -- > > Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS > > Information Technology at Purdue > > Research Computing and Storage > > http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu > > > > >===== >= M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= >Clayton Frank Helvey, President >Montvale Software Services, P. C. >P.O. Box 840 >Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 >Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com >============================================================ > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030114/20b666c6/attachment.html From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Jan 14 15:07:01 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000701c2bc11$455ddb40$46f8b8ce@impac.com> "The `hunt' is also easier in certain locations than others, depending on what you're trying to find. In Silicon Valley, or any large built up area, I'm sure the pickings are a lot easier than in say... the northern reaches of Canada." Naw. Sellam's got the Bay Area pretty much picked clean! :) I completely agree with your premise, however. With a full-time+ job and a family at home I hardly get to play with what toys I have more or less search far and wide for new ones. eBay brings the search to me for what I consider to be a reasonable incremental cost - on most items. Auctions like: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=2086784 468 continue to blow my mind while items such as http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2087268 115 give me the warm fuzzies. Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Brian Chase Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 12:28 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Help with pricing on vintage computers? On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Mike wrote: > >> > There are, and have been, for decades, valid mathematical and > >> actuarial methods for determining the value of a given object based > >> on several criteria, including of course supply and demand. Why > >> should ending prices of eBay auctions all of a sudden supercede that > >> science? > > The science is wrong. That science is based on a supply that is offered > to the demand audience. And that demand audience has always been limited > and local (for the most part). With the internet, the demand now is > expanded to millions of people. > > As far as the supply, it can be said that the supply has also expanded. > But the reality is that the supply, for the most part, was a fixed number > that has decreased since the items were manufactured. > > So we have an ever expanding demand with a shrinking supply. So, while > the model is correct, the parametric values are all wrong and need > updating to reflect a global demand, now. My argument on this thread would be that Ecomonics isn't really a science in my eyes. So it's not that eBay is wrong or that the "science" is wrong; it's just that there's no reasonable model for predicting classic computer prices, yet. Mostly, I feel it comes down to personal decisions based on any number of factors, some of which include: amount of expendible income, the amount of free time, location, and interest in the item in question. If I didn't have a job and instead had plenty of free time, I'd certainly be inclined to spend a lot more of that free time hunting down bargains. But I don't have that sort of free time because I'm employed full time. What I do get instead is a decent income in trade for that time, and I can spend that income on equipment made available through eBay. I'm willing to pay more money for items on eBay because it saves me the time of hunting down the equipment on my own. When I look at the opportunity cost of doing my own hunting, the cost of aggressively hunting doesn't make any sense for me. I'd actually be losing lots of money by doing it. Time is money. Great, so I find a $10 computer in the wild that would've cost me $50 on eBay, but I spent two hours finding it at an opportunity cost of $100 of lost wages. By doing this, I've just shot myself in the foot. Instead of paying $50 for it on eBay, I've effectively spent $110 for it. The `hunt' is also easier in certain locations than others, depending on what you're trying to find. In Silicon Valley, or any large built up area, I'm sure the pickings are a lot easier than in say... the northern reaches of Canada. That doesn't mean won't look for bargains in my spare time--but there's not a lot of that with my other projects. I also spend a lot of time using and working with my computers, and reading the wonderful ClassicCmp mailing list! In my case, I'd rather be spending my time playing instead of collecting--but those are personal priorities. -brian. From foo at siconic.com Tue Jan 14 15:30:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? In-Reply-To: <51323.130.76.32.20.1042575632.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Mike wrote: > Didn't I say the model was correct but the parametric values were wrong? > > science - systematized knowledge derived from observation, study, and > experimentation. > > So, if that "observations, studies, and experiments" are wrong, then the > "science" is wrong. > > I never said the model was wrong. Look, a turd is a turd :) See Hans' much more lucid explanation for why eBay's prices are anomalies. The science, and the model, is correct. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Jan 14 15:31:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: Motorola VME cards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: One thing I forgot to add, I'm going to have to pony up some cash for the cards, and would like to be able to get at least $1/lb + shipping to pay back my expenses. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I've just run over probably 100-200lbs (45-90kg) of Motorola VME cards... > from 68010 processor cards, to memory, and I/O cards. Now, there's not > chance I would want to hold on to these, so I'm wondering if anyone else > is interested in some of the cards. I can't guarantee anything now, just > tell me if you're interested or not. I'll try to get some cards to > whoever is interested. > > I haven't looked at the cards much yet, so I don't exactly know what's > there for I/O and memory cards. There might also be a power supply or two > and maybe an intact backplane bus card (the few I saw were snapped in > half). > > Pat > -- > Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu > > From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Jan 14 15:38:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Look, a turd is a turd :) Obviously you did not grow up on a farm... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Tue Jan 14 15:47:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? Message-ID: The "model" (whatever it is) might be correct for market situations where the buyer and seller can negotiate a price, but I doubt that it was designed to cover situations like auctions, especially eBay auctions. My last $0.02 on this subject. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 3:31 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Help with pricing on vintage computers? The science, and the model, is correct. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cb at mythtech.net Tue Jan 14 16:24:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: OT: paging MAC expert(s) --- What's a Performa Message-ID: > I have an old macintosh portable I bought in 1995. I have no idea what >it is worth but I love it. I am also not very computer literate. I also >own a macintosh preforma 6360. I now own an imac. Maryann DeMatthews Well, I'm not sure what you are getting at with your email, but the question posed in the subject line was "what's a Performa"... and the simple answer is... a Mac that Apple produced during a time when they thought that different names would increase sales. Performa's were the same Mac's as the LCs, and some Quadra's and PowerMac's. Apple was under the misguided notion that if you complicate the product line by releasing the same computer under 3 different names, you could convince different market segments to buy their version of the computer at their price. LC's were marketed to education and sold at one price, with one software bundle Performa's were marketed to the home user, sold at a different price, and with a different software bundle and Quadra's and PowerMac's were marketed to businesses, at an even more inflated price and with almost no software bundled. Of course, I am SOOO glad that Apple decided to go to the opposite extreme with their product lines, and name everything, no matter how radically different, the exact same thing. Makes it so wonderful to try and figure out what model someone is using over the phone -chris From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 14 17:08:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: Ohio Scientific C4P-MF ROMs In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030113210738.00a5cf68@mail.acclamation.com> Message-ID: <20030114231048.80675.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- cott@acclamation.com wrote: > Can anyone out there with a C4P-MF send me the ROMs? I gave my CP4 motherboard to Hans Franke when I stayed with him a few years ago. Perhaps he could help. I never had the whole system, but I _think_ it was from a C4P-MF. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From alhartman at yahoo.com Tue Jan 14 17:12:01 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: AERCO RAM Upgrade for Atari-ST In-Reply-To: <20030114180001.14607.280.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030114231504.76223.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> One of my beloved Classic Computers is an Atari-ST. It's only a 520-ST (512k RAM), so in the heyday... I bought a RAM upgrade to bring it up to 2.5mb of RAM, with the possibility of 4mb... I've lost the manual, and also... The upgrade no longer works at all... Does anyone have the manual for one of these they can send me, or point me to someone who will sell me a RAM upgrade for this unit? I still have instructions to solder chips to get it to 1mb, but I'd prefer to max it out if I can. Also, I'm looking for a SCSI adapter for it, as I have several SCSI drives from 80mb to 1.2gb. I'd like to put one on here to make it more useful. I won a Spectre 128 GCR adapter on eBay a few months ago, so a 4mb (or so) Mac Plus, would be a useful machine to use for Wordprocessing... Or just for play. I'm going to TCF this year and hoping to spot a Color Display for this unit so I can play some of the old games in Color. I have a composite cable that runs to my Amiga Monitor, but the display isn't all that crisp. I have some Tandy Color Computer Stuff for trade (Editor/Assembler for Coco III, Serial to Parallel Adapter, Disk System & Controller, RS-232 Adapter, more...), and possibly some other interesting things, including cash... Regards, Al __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 14 17:20:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: IBM Data Cell (was Re: PDP-12 on eBay) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030114232314.92217.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > > --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > > >> OTOH, the first two pieces of my classic computer collection are > > > >> IBM, a hand-held card punch (still in almost prefect condition), > > > >> and a wierd magtape... > > > about the size of a DECtape, but it's enclosed in a small clear > > > boxish enclosure, with tape coming out of one end. > > This sounds like the tape for the IBM 3480 (or 3490,etc) tape drives. So it does. The "clear boxish" part made me think of a data cell, but I suppose that a 3480 tape would look just like a DECtape (TK50-style, not reel-to-reel like DECtape I). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From foo at siconic.com Tue Jan 14 17:23:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Feldman, Robert wrote: > The "model" (whatever it is) might be correct for market situations where > the buyer and seller can negotiate a price, but I doubt that it was designed > to cover situations like auctions, especially eBay auctions. Well, the "model" in question is really the whole study of economics. It can be argued that it is more art than science, but either way, eBay prices do not reflect actual value. My last $0.10 (in eBay dollars, worth $o.02 normally) on the subject. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From liste at artware.qc.ca Tue Jan 14 17:24:22 2003 From: liste at artware.qc.ca (liste@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: DOS 1.0 In-Reply-To: <004d01c2bb89$78b1d830$1e01a8c0@netadelxp> Message-ID: On 14-Jan-2003 Live Wire wrote: >> infamous "This page intentionally left blank" page. What's up with >> that?? > > I have a stack of these pages ;) > >> I do also memember Wordstar and it's arcane command sequences. Those >> commands persisted though, through a number of ordinary text editors >> for programmers & such. > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/joe-editor/ > > This is as close to wordstar and the WS CTRL-K-x command set I have > found. I used to use wordstar on a tiny portable computer with a 4 line > display to write asm for the amiga 500 and then dump it via the built > in modem. Joe is my favorite editor today, though I find myself living > in vi for the most part... I program for a living. My editor is the program I probably use the most often. I started writing code in wordstar, then in norton's editor (or something), then quickedit, then tse32. These all use the worstar binding as a base, each having slight variations. When I moved to Linux, I tried wordstar bindings for emacs (slow!), I tried learning vi (modal!), but when I found joe I was in heaven. After all these year, I don't think I could be as productive with another editor. It's not that joe is a stunning editor (it lacks some features that I loved in quickedit/tse32), but I don't want to "waste" time learning to do something (edit code) that I can already do very well. -Philip From charlesmorris at direcway.com Tue Jan 14 17:31:18 2003 From: charlesmorris at direcway.com (Charles) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: Progress (PDP-8/L repair) Message-ID: I'm still looking for an M220 board since one of the six won't carry from its LSB to MSB. Probably just needs a 7482 adder; I have one on order. In the meantime I've been looking at the core memory and MB registers which appeared to be totally dead (no bits ever changed on the front panel). (M+) - (M-) = 22.3 volts. This weekend, after quite a bit of signal chasing, I found that I had put the variable delay line in the wrong slot some time ago while cleaning connectors/mice nests! When I replaced it in the correct slot there was still no STROBE output. I then found that the 7400 output buffer was internally shorted to Vcc (probably from the mis-slotting). Replaced the 7400. Now it cycles. The MB now lights up with the contents of the SR on a DEP, but I can't tell if anything is getting stored, or whether it isn't getting read, since EXAM always shows all-0's to the MB. I can't run any diagnostics yet since I can't store any instructions! Any help/hints greatly appreciated. -Charles From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Jan 14 18:01:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: editors (was Re: DOS 1.0) In-Reply-To: References: <004d01c2bb89$78b1d830$1e01a8c0@netadelxp> Message-ID: <2855.4.20.168.156.1042589042.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Philip wrote: > After all these year, I don't think I could be as productive with > another editor. It's not that joe is a stunning editor (it lacks some > features that I loved in quickedit/tse32), but I don't want to "waste" > time learning to do something (edit code) that I can already do very > well. I'm certainly not going to tell you that you're wrong. If it works for you, and you're happy with it, there's no reason to change. I went through a similar progression, with Wordstar (starting in 1978, if memory serves), then the Borland IDEs, and a few other programs that used the Wordstar key bindings. Around 1984 I was thrust into an environment where the only choices for a screen editor were vi and jove. I quickly determined that vi was an abomination, and learned jove. Jove is a simple editor using the basic emacs key bindings. Jove wasn't particularly powerful, but "real" emacs was too slow on the VAX-11/750. Since then I've used Gosling Emacs, then GNU Emacs, with detours into MicroEmacs on MS-DOS. At this point I wouldn't dream of using anything but GNU Emacs, though I do keep a copy of Jove around for emergencies. I'm amazed that I was ever satisfied with Wordstar. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 14 18:48:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: Hackers Guide to the APPLE II In-Reply-To: <3E2439D1.1286425A@eagle.ca> from "C. Murray McCullough" at Jan 14, 3 11:24:49 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 356 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030114/ad1c37b3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 14 18:49:19 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: Fwd: Apple mouse needed in Belgium In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030114013504.03aabec0@enigma> from "Dan Veeneman" at Jan 14, 3 01:35:58 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1071 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030114/b837a6e0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 14 18:50:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: Shark Update In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030113180809.00a0cea0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> from "Mike Ford" at Jan 13, 3 06:12:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 675 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030114/cd9097b6/attachment.ksh From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 14 18:57:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: Progress (PDP-8/L repair) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030115010003.48224.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Charles wrote: > I'm still looking for an M220 board since one of the six won't > carry from its LSB to MSB. Probably just needs a 7482 adder; I > have one on order. All I have (not installed in working machines) is short stack of defective M220 modules. If you have an extender card, you should be able to trace the fault pretty quickly with a logic probe or an oscilloscope. Without an extender card, it's a lot harder. > This weekend, after quite a bit of signal chasing, I found that I > had put the variable delay line in the wrong slot some time ago > while cleaning connectors/mice nests! I've done stuff like that. > When I replaced it in the > correct slot there was still no STROBE output. I then found that > the 7400 output buffer was internally shorted to Vcc (probably > from the mis-slotting). Replaced the 7400. Now it cycles. I wouldn't be so sure that it was hosed by that. M-series modules use the 4 pins for power and 32 pins for signals. It's possible that you accidentally hooked two outputs together and the 7400 lost, but it's also possible that it was previously hosed. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jan 14 19:27:00 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030114164131.00a13ec0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> I love this logic, the price on ebay a place where all the traditional requirements of willing buyer, willing seller, and open market are met, isn't valid because its too high. No the acceptable price is the price you once saw in a scrapyard after years of digging through the place 3 times a week and have never seen since. From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Jan 14 19:36:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: A Few New Finds Today Message-ID: <02df01c2bc36$e4045420$cb51ef42@oemcomputer> At auction I picked up the following: 1. Black Macintosh TV no mouse, KB, or remote with it. Will test it on Wednesday. 2. Box of 82+ video cards. 3. Box of New capacitors (100's). 4. Many more items but too new to list in detail. At thrifts: 1. TI external disk controller model PHP1800C 2. 3-CompacTape TK50 cartridges from digital. The labels on them read: Vax RDB/VMS 4.1A STAND TK; RDB 5.1A STANDARD TK50; and Vax RDB/VMS 4.1A MULTI TK5. Each was $1 From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Tue Jan 14 19:48:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: Dos V3.2, V3.10, & V2.0 - who was looking for this? Message-ID: Hi Ron! INTEREST!!! INTEREST!!! INTEREST!!! INTEREST!!! I'm the guy looking for eraly copies of DOS -- anything in the 3.xx range. I'm most interested in the texts, but definitely wouldn't turn down the OS software if it came along! Prefer 3.5 floppy, but can load-on a 5.25 reader to my system if neded. I'm reachable off-list at wrathbone@hotmail.com or ICQ 10460417. INTEREST!!! INTEREST!!! INTEREST!!! INTEREST!!! Cheers! Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, TX; USA Phone (210) 592-3110, Fax (210) 592-2048 edward.tillman@valero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of Ron > Collison > Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 7:35 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Dos V3.2, V3.10, & V2.0 - who was looking for this? > > I found several versions of DOS in my collectibles, incl.: > DOS V3.10 on 51/4 floppies with ref manual, user's guide, & applic setup > guide > DOS V2.0 on 51/4 floppies with ref manual > DOS V3.2 users guide [may have the OS on floppies, but would need to > determine interest prior to searching] > Anyway, there was some traffic a few days ago from someone looking for an > early version of DOS on floppies, 51/4 I think > So, anyone out there interested? > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3336 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030114/8ee62ff3/attachment.bin From foo at siconic.com Tue Jan 14 20:23:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030114164131.00a13ec0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Mike Ford wrote: > I love this logic, the price on ebay a place where all the traditional > requirements of willing buyer, willing seller, and open market are met, > isn't valid because its too high. No the acceptable price is the price you > once saw in a scrapyard after years of digging through the place 3 times a > week and have never seen since. Pasta tastes good with marinara. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Ed_Chiodo at compuserve.com Tue Jan 14 20:44:52 2003 From: Ed_Chiodo at compuserve.com (ED CHIODO) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: M100 Keys Sought Message-ID: <200301142147_MC3-1-24D7-D7B7@compuserve.com> I have a mint condition M100 that I would like to sell. One problem: the original keys were replaced with custom screened keys for an OEM application. Does anyone know where I can get replacement keys? Thanks, Ed From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Tue Jan 14 21:10:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: M100 Keys Sought Message-ID: In this context, what is an M100. In my company, the designation refers to a Radiant branded touch-screen cash register with a NetPC (smal box, baby-ATX form factor) driven by WINNT 3.51. I'm sure tis isn't the same... Cheers! Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, TX; USA Phone (210) 592-3110, Fax (210) 592-2048 edward.tillman@valero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of ED CHIODO > > Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 8:47 PM > To: CCTALK > Subject: M100 Keys Sought > > I have a mint condition M100 that I would like to sell. > One problem: the original keys were replaced with custom screened keys for > an OEM application. > Does anyone know where I can get replacement keys? > > Thanks, > Ed -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2945 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030114/48a4958e/attachment.bin From foo at siconic.com Tue Jan 14 21:20:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: M100 Keys Sought In-Reply-To: <200301142147_MC3-1-24D7-D7B7@compuserve.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, ED CHIODO wrote: > I have a mint condition M100 that I would like to sell. One problem: the > original keys were replaced with custom screened keys for an OEM > application. Does anyone know where I can get replacement keys? I'm assuming you mean a Tandy Model 100? In that case, keeping the keys as they are makes it far more interesting. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com Tue Jan 14 21:31:00 2003 From: 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com (No Junk Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: M100 Keys Sought Message-ID: <30830-44096@sneakemail.com> I'm guessing the original poster is referring to a fairly modern Palm PDA. If so, I'd recommend leaving in the custom keys. There are only four main buttons plus up/down and they can be reassigned using software so the icons are, on the whole, unimportant. Chris J. > In this context, what is an M100. In my company, the designation > refers to > a Radiant branded touch-screen cash register with a NetPC (smal box, > baby-ATX form factor) driven by WINNT 3.51. I'm sure tis isn't the > same... > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > I have a mint condition M100 that I would like to sell. > > One problem: the original keys were replaced with custom screened > keys for > > an OEM application. > > Does anyone know where I can get replacement keys? From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Tue Jan 14 21:51:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: M100 Keys Sought Message-ID: It'd be real nice if he'd specify... eh? Cheers... Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, TX; USA Phone (210) 592-3110, Fax (210) 592-2048 edward.tillman@valero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of "No Junk > Mail" <3sdiarftt02@sneakemail.com> > Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 9:34 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: RE: M100 Keys Sought > > > I'm guessing the original poster is referring to a fairly modern Palm PDA. > > If so, I'd recommend leaving in the custom keys. There are only four main > buttons plus up/down and they can be reassigned using software so the > icons are, on the whole, unimportant. > > Chris J. > > > In this context, what is an M100. In my company, the designation > > refers to > > a Radiant branded touch-screen cash register with a NetPC (smal box, > > baby-ATX form factor) driven by WINNT 3.51. I'm sure tis isn't the > > same... > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > I have a mint condition M100 that I would like to sell. > > > One problem: the original keys were replaced with custom screened > > keys for > > > an OEM application. > > > Does anyone know where I can get replacement keys? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3249 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030114/51d951cd/attachment.bin From cb at mythtech.net Tue Jan 14 22:00:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: A Few New Finds Today Message-ID: >1. Black Macintosh TV no mouse, KB, or remote with it. Will test it on >Wednesday. If you happen to ever come across any of the mouse, kb, remotes... I could use a set. I have a Mac TV (finally... thanks John!!!), but it lacks its extras as well (and currently is supposed to be DOA, but I hope to finally have a look at it this weekend). I only run this by you because you seem to have the magical ability to find the most awesome stuff at little to no cost... where DO you do you hunting?!? Oh, and FYI: the MacTV will work with a universal remote. Sony TV code. At least that is true with my PowerMac, which came with a remote that is also compatible with the MacTV, so I draw the conclusion that the MacTV should also be compatible with a universal remote, sony code set. -chris From rob at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Tue Jan 14 22:48:01 2003 From: rob at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: <20030114094401.20770.qmail@web21101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030113193032.02c689a0@pop.freeserve.net> At 09:44 14/01/2003 +0000, you wrote: >Rob, > > > BBC mostly, though not in a "must have everything" sense. Just because I > > spent many years making a sort of living off them. I've got one of Acorn's > > original ARM development systems though (connects to the BBC) which I've > > had since they were hot off the press. > >Is that the "ARM evaluation unit" (or labelled as something similar)? I've got >one of those *somewhere* but no docs / software for it. Think it had 4MB of >memory which was a reasonable amount in those days. ARM Evaluation Kit - yep - that's the one. I do have various discs and manuals for it, too. I used to love the "twin" editor - several open files at one, and could cut and paste between them. Ahead of it's time... It's all boxed up somewhere under the stairs though. >I've got a whole pile of other BBC and related stuff, but I've generally >forgotten what I have - your posting made me remember the ARM unit. > >Funny how people don't remember the BBC systems that well - I suppose they >were >generally quite expensive to have at home (compared to the Spectrums and C64 >machines) and in a school environment people didn't get much of a chance to >really play about with them. They're certainly quite well designed machines... They were expensive, but much more expandable than the spectrum. At one point I had about six of them in my bedroom on an econet network, had several on modems running a multi-user BBS. Ah, those were the days - publishing your thoughts to the world took equipment and promotion.. these days, anyone can bung up a web page. That was about the time I was still single, working for Ferranti Computer Systems (and I've never seen ANY of their computers lying about anywhere... ) and had plenty of money to indulge my hobby. Rob From rob at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Tue Jan 14 22:49:38 2003 From: rob at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: Xenix OS for early generation IBM PC In-Reply-To: <3E2446B1.E2B53D7C@rain.org> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030114083615.00b64710@mailbox.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030113193650.02877470@pop.freeserve.net> At 09:19 14/01/2003 -0800, you wrote: >I *think* the complete set consists of about 8 different binders >including OS, editor, IIRC a C compiler, etc. > >Ron Collison wrote: > > > > Title on unopened box: "IBM Personal Computer XENIX Software Development > > System" - its on 51/4 floppies. Includes the Xenix Operating System and > > documentation, etc. This a new package, e.g. still shrink wrapped. Min. > > config. requirements on PC is 512K Ram & 20Mb HD > > Anyone interested? Hmm... I've got a box of xenix manuals, tetra 2000 manuals and a shedload of 3.5" discs upstairs somewhere. If they are of interest to anyone I'll dig them out and catalogue them. ISTR it looked a pretty complete set last time I moved them. Rob (Salford, UK, btw) From rick at netadel.com Tue Jan 14 22:50:03 2003 From: rick at netadel.com (Rick Collette) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: VAXStation 4000/60 (claimed) Message-ID: <008001c2bc3c$18764920$1e01a8c0@netadelxp> Someone has claimed this.. thanks for all that were interested - it's nice to know that stuff I get emotionally attached to (ie: anything I touch), can go to a good home :) ---------------------------------------------- PLEASE NOTE: This e-mail server will be in the process of transitioning from one IP address to another on 01/25/2003. If you experience un- deliverable email, bounced email, or other stangenesses, it is probably due to the move. Please try back in a couple of days if your mail to me gets messed up. --------------------------------------------------- From echiodo at optonline.net Tue Jan 14 22:50:27 2003 From: echiodo at optonline.net (Ed Chiodo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: M100 Keys Sought Message-ID: <000801c2bc3e$31b5fdc0$65f660ce@hplaptop> I have a mint condition M100 that I would like to sell. One problem: the original keys were replaced with custom screened keys for an OEM application. Does anyone know of a source for replacement keys? - Ed -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030114/eb571b10/attachment.html From alanp at snowmoose.com Tue Jan 14 22:51:13 2003 From: alanp at snowmoose.com (Alan Perry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: Technique for scanning in documentation Message-ID: <20030115045013.4E3AE43561@smtp-relay.omnis.com> I have a bunch of documentation for my VAX 11/750 and peripherals that I would like to scan in and make available. What technique should I use? I can scan individual pages, but how do I stitch them together to make one big PDF file? alan From alanp at snowmoose.com Tue Jan 14 22:52:00 2003 From: alanp at snowmoose.com (Alan Perry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: NeXT archives/museum? Message-ID: <20030115045305.C357442CD9@smtp-relay.omnis.com> Is there a NeXT archive or museum anywhere? I have a few documents that are historically interesting (one is a receipt for the very last magneto-optical cartridges that Canon had in stock) and would like them to go to a suitable home, if there is such a place. alan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 14 22:56:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: M100 Keys Sought In-Reply-To: <30830-44096@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <20030115045902.78037.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- No Junk Mail <3sdiarftt02@sneakemail.com> wrote: > > I'm guessing the original poster is referring to a fairly modern Palm > PDA. Or perhaps a Radio Shack Model 100? > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > I have a mint condition M100 that I would like to sell. > > > One problem: the original keys were replaced with custom screened > > > keys for an OEM application. > > > Does anyone know where I can get replacement keys? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From rick at jelcoventures.com Tue Jan 14 23:22:22 2003 From: rick at jelcoventures.com (rick@jelcoventures.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: Collectible Microcomputers Message-ID: <1042608311.5283@paypal.com> You've got cash! Richard Crandall just sent you money with PayPal. ------------------------------ Payment Details ------------------------------ Amount: $29.95 Subject: Collectible Microcomputers Simply click https://www.paypal.com/links/uni and complete PayPal's one-page registration form to claim your money. For a limited time, if you sign up and complete the bonus requirements, you will receive a $5 New Account Bonus. You may withdraw your money at any time by requesting a check or making a direct deposit to your bank account. You can also send the money to your friends. PayPal lets users send money to anyone with an email address. Use PayPal.com to settle restaurant tabs with colleagues, pay friends for movie tickets, or buy a baseball card at an online auction. You can also send personalized money requests to your friends for a group event or party. For more information about PayPal, check out http://www.paypal.com/. Welcome to PayPal! The PayPal Team Note: If you are already a PayPal member, click the link below to add and confirm this email address (cctech@classiccmp.org) so this payment can be credited to your account. https://www.paypal.com/EMAIL-ADD From red at bears.org Tue Jan 14 23:24:01 2003 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: NeXT archives/museum? In-Reply-To: <20030115045305.C357442CD9@smtp-relay.omnis.com> References: <20030115045305.C357442CD9@smtp-relay.omnis.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Alan Perry wrote: > Is there a NeXT archive or museum anywhere? I have a few documents that > are historically interesting (one is a receipt for the very last > magneto-optical cartridges that Canon had in stock) and would like them > to go to a suitable home, if there is such a place. Hey, Alan. I would be delighted to assume guardianship of these docs. Drop me a line when you get a moment. ok bear From fernande at internet1.net Tue Jan 14 23:24:24 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:24 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF6410CBA95@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF6410CBA95@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Message-ID: <3E24F074.5090801@internet1.net> Gooijen H wrote: > Later, somewhere around 1989, they introduced the 2200, the smaller > version of the 1100, but runs the same instruction set. > I vagely remember that the 2200 line was called the "A-series", as > there was also a "B-series" as a result of the merger of SPERRY and > BURROUGHS to the new UNISYS. > But, I am not sure. I left that company (and fine 1100) in 1990 ... > > - Henk. I'm not sure 100% sure either, but I recall differently (but only from reading). The 2200 was the Sperry's mainframe contribution to Unisys. The A-Series was from the Burroughs side. I don't remember hearing about any "B-Series". Do you mean the systems that ran Btos..... I think that's what it was called. I don't think they were mainframe class, but I'm not sure on that either :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From msspcva at yahoo.com Tue Jan 14 23:27:00 2003 From: msspcva at yahoo.com (Clayton Frank Helvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:25 2005 Subject: Motorola VME cards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030115053015.49769.qmail@web41103.mail.yahoo.com> Patrick: OK, how about a card/part list then? I'd not like to buy a lead-acid battery backup card, for instance, under those terms. :> I also don't want to buy a lot of stuff I couldn't use. -- Frank --- Patrick Finnegan wrote: > One thing I forgot to add, I'm going to have to pony > up some cash for the > cards, and would like to be able to get at least > $1/lb + shipping to pay > back my expenses. > > Pat > -- > Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu > > On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > I've just run over probably 100-200lbs (45-90kg) > of Motorola VME cards... > > from 68010 processor cards, to memory, and I/O > cards. Now, there's not > > chance I would want to hold on to these, so I'm > wondering if anyone else > > is interested in some of the cards. I can't > guarantee anything now, just > > tell me if you're interested or not. I'll try to > get some cards to > > whoever is interested. > > > > I haven't looked at the cards much yet, so I don't > exactly know what's > > there for I/O and memory cards. There might also > be a power supply or two > > and maybe an intact backplane bus card (the few I > saw were snapped in > > half). > > > > Pat > > -- > > Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS > > Information Technology at Purdue > > Research Computing and Storage > > http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu > > > > > ===== = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= Clayton Frank Helvey, President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com ============================================================ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Jan 14 23:30:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:25 2005 Subject: Technique for scanning in documentation In-Reply-To: <20030115045013.4E3AE43561@smtp-relay.omnis.com> References: <20030115045013.4E3AE43561@smtp-relay.omnis.com> Message-ID: <32785.64.169.63.74.1042608822.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Alan wrote: > I have a bunch of documentation for my VAX 11/750 and peripherals that I > would like to scan in and make available. What technique should I use? > I can scan individual pages, but how do I stitch them together to make > one big PDF file? Some scanner software can output PDF directly. That's probably the easiest approach. If you have the full Acrobat package (not just the free Acrobat Reader), it can import common image formats such as TIFF and JPEG, but you have to do it one at a time. There are other programs out there that can do this a bit more easily. I use my own program under Linux, which I hope to find the time to clean up and release sometime. From 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com Tue Jan 14 23:37:00 2003 From: 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com (No Junk Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:25 2005 Subject: Collectible Microcomputers Message-ID: <24498-79053@sneakemail.com> ROTFLMA > rick-at-jelcoventures.com |CC| wrote: > > You've got cash! > > Richard Crandall just sent you money with PayPal. From rick at jelcoventures.com Tue Jan 14 23:39:09 2003 From: rick at jelcoventures.com (rick@jelcoventures.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:25 2005 Subject: Richard Crandall just cancelled a payment to you Message-ID: <1042609234.22169@paypal.com> Richard Crandall cancelled the following payment to you: Amount: $29.95 Payments can only be cancelled if the recipient fails to sign up. To claim all future payments, sign up for PayPal today! It's fast, free and secure. PayPal lets you instantly and securely send money by email. We hope you'll join PayPal soon! Note: If you have already signed up for PayPal, you need to either add this email address to your PayPal account by going to the "Profile" subtab of the "My Account" tab or you need to confirm this email address so additional payments will not be cancelled. "Best of the Web" - Forbes "Using the service is actually safer than a check or money order." - Wall Street Journal "PayPal can play a major role in your life. You can use it to pay for stuff at auction sites, settle dinner debts with friends or nudge your cousin to repay that $50 he borrowed at the family reunion." - Time ---------------------------------------------------------------- PROTECT YOUR PASSWORD NEVER give your password to anyone and ONLY log in at https://www.paypal.com/. Protect yourself against fraudulent websites by checking the URL/Address bar every time you log in. ---------------------------------------------------------------- From fernande at internet1.net Tue Jan 14 23:47:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:25 2005 Subject: Collectible Microcomputers In-Reply-To: <1042608311.5283@paypal.com> References: <1042608311.5283@paypal.com> Message-ID: <3E24F5D3.4030707@internet1.net> rick@jelcoventures.com wrote: > You've got cash! > > Richard Crandall just sent you money with PayPal. > > ------------------------------ > Payment Details > ------------------------------ > > Amount: $29.95 > Subject: Collectible Microcomputers SweeT!!! $29.95 for everyone :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Jan 14 23:56:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:25 2005 Subject: NeXT archives/museum? In-Reply-To: <20030115045305.C357442CD9@smtp-relay.omnis.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Alan Perry wrote: > Is there a NeXT archive or museum anywhere? I have a few documents > that are historically interesting (one is a receipt for the very last > magneto-optical cartridges that Canon had in stock) and would like > them to go to a suitable home, if there is such a place. Probably the best place to send these would be the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, CA. At the very least, I'd recommend contacting them with the details of your items. See: http://www.computerhistory.org/ -brian. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Jan 15 00:06:19 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:25 2005 Subject: Richard Crandall just cancelled a payment to you In-Reply-To: <1042609234.22169@paypal.com> References: <1042609234.22169@paypal.com> Message-ID: <200301142209180042.10EC325F@192.168.42.129> What the...? *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 14-Jan-03 at 21:40 rick@jelcoventures.com wrote: >Richard Crandall cancelled the following payment to you: > >Amount: $29.95 Why do I get the feeling this should have been in private E-mail? Whodaheck is Richard Crandall, anyway? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 15 00:14:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:25 2005 Subject: Collectible Microcomputers In-Reply-To: <1042608311.5283@paypal.com> Message-ID: I hope you have enough to go around to everyone on the list, Richard ;) (Truly bizarre.) On Tue, 14 Jan 2003 rick@jelcoventures.com wrote: > You've got cash! > > Richard Crandall just sent you money with PayPal. > > ------------------------------ > Payment Details > ------------------------------ > > Amount: $29.95 > Subject: Collectible Microcomputers > > > > > > Simply click https://www.paypal.com/links/uni and complete PayPal's > one-page registration form to claim your money. For a limited > time, if you sign up and complete the bonus requirements, you will > receive a $5 New Account Bonus. > > You may withdraw your money at any time by requesting a check > or making a direct deposit to your bank account. You can also > send the money to your friends. > > PayPal lets users send money to anyone with an email address. Use > PayPal.com to settle restaurant tabs with colleagues, pay > friends for movie tickets, or buy a baseball card at an online > auction. You can also send personalized money requests to your > friends for a group event or party. > > For more information about PayPal, check out http://www.paypal.com/. > > Welcome to PayPal! > > The PayPal Team > > Note: If you are already a PayPal member, click the link below > to add and confirm this email address (cctech@classiccmp.org) > so this payment can be credited to your account. > > https://www.paypal.com/EMAIL-ADD > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From alanp at snowmoose.com Wed Jan 15 00:16:18 2003 From: alanp at snowmoose.com (Alan Perry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:25 2005 Subject: Richard Crandall just cancelled a payment to you Message-ID: <20030115061743.E727043B33@smtp-relay.omnis.com> I think someone gave PayPal the wrong e-mail address for payment. alan Bruce Lane wrote: What the...? *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 14-Jan-03 at 21:40 rick@jelcoventures.com wrote: >Richard Crandall cancelled the following payment to you: > >Amount: $29.95 Why do I get the feeling this should have been in private E-mail? Whodaheck is Richard Crandall, anyway? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Jan 15 00:26:01 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:25 2005 Subject: Collectible Microcomputers In-Reply-To: <1042608311.5283@paypal.com> References: <1042608311.5283@paypal.com> Message-ID: Looks like Richard just bought a book from someone/somewhere and has munged his Pay-Pal information... or cc:ed The List... Or, this is a hideously mal-formed attempt at Spam... But I'll take the $30, regardless. Cheers John From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Jan 15 00:30:01 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:25 2005 Subject: Richard Crandall just cancelled a payment to you In-Reply-To: <1042609234.22169@paypal.com> References: <1042609234.22169@paypal.com> Message-ID: Damn!!! I gotta head into Reno to make a Costco and Sandy's run over the weekend, and I was gonna fill the tank full with 92-octane pushwater.. Ah! Cruel and Teasing, Fickle World! Chz. John. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 15 00:38:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:25 2005 Subject: M100 Keys Sought In-Reply-To: <000801c2bc3e$31b5fdc0$65f660ce@hplaptop> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Ed Chiodo wrote: > I have a mint condition M100 that I would like to sell. > One problem: the original keys were replaced with custom screened keys for an OEM application. > Does anyone know of a source for replacement keys? Is that the Samsung M100 phone? Or the Lotus Elan M100? (I doubt that you have the M100 spiral galaxy for sale) From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Wed Jan 15 00:59:00 2003 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:25 2005 Subject: M100 Keys Sought In-Reply-To: References: <000801c2bc3e$31b5fdc0$65f660ce@hplaptop> Message-ID: <3E249604.8076.447298D@localhost> From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: M100 Keys Sought Send reply to: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date sent: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 22:41:02 -0800 (PST) > On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Ed Chiodo wrote: > > I have a mint condition M100 that I would like to sell. > > One problem: the original keys were replaced with custom screened > > keys for an OEM application. Does anyone know of a source for > > replacement keys? > > Is that the Samsung M100 phone? > Or the Lotus Elan M100? > > (I doubt that you have the M100 spiral galaxy for sale) I'll sell you the Large Magellanic Cloud for $50,000, and throw in the Small Magellanic Cloud as a bonus. :) From GOOI at oce.nl Wed Jan 15 01:13:00 2003 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:25 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay Message-ID: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF6410CBA99@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Hi Chad / readers, I am not sure either, but this is what I know for sure. Before the merger SPERRY/Burroughs, Burroughs had a systems line but I do not know anything about those. SPERRY had the 1100-series; I programmed even assembly (MASM-1100) on those fine main frames. After the merger, so now it is UNISYS, the 2200 came available. It has a smaller footprint, lower power consumption, but is compatible with the 1100. Compiled/assmbled programs from the 1100 run on the 2200 without any re-compilation. I worked with the 1100 from 1990 to 1995, unitl I left the company. Never had any contact to 1100's afterward. Sometimes I miss the "@ASG,T" and all other demand-mode commands and the assembly language ... EXEC was (is?) a real good OS. - Henk. > -----Original Message----- > From: Chad Fernandez [mailto:fernande@internet1.net] > Sent: woensdag 15 januari 2003 6:24 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: PDP-12 on eBay > > > Gooijen H wrote: > > Later, somewhere around 1989, they introduced the 2200, the smaller > > version of the 1100, but runs the same instruction set. > > I vagely remember that the 2200 line was called the "A-series", as > > there was also a "B-series" as a result of the merger of SPERRY and > > BURROUGHS to the new UNISYS. > > But, I am not sure. I left that company (and fine 1100) in 1990 ... > > > > - Henk. > > I'm not sure 100% sure either, but I recall differently (but > only from > reading). The 2200 was the Sperry's mainframe contribution > to Unisys. > The A-Series was from the Burroughs side. > > I don't remember hearing about any "B-Series". Do you mean > the systems > that ran Btos..... I think that's what it was called. I don't think > they were mainframe class, but I'm not sure on that either :-) > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > From charles at socketcom.com Wed Jan 15 01:22:00 2003 From: charles at socketcom.com (Charles Ader) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:25 2005 Subject: Fwd: Apple mouse needed in Belgium References: Message-ID: <001901c2bc67$3dad0dc0$2200a8c0@homeportal.2wire.net> ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Dan Veeneman cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 12:23 AM > > > Subject: Re: Fwd: Apple mouse needed in Belgium > > > > > > Can anyone in Belgium help this fellow? > > > > > > From: "Arthur Odekerken" > > > To: > > > Subject: Apple mouse > > > Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 23:51:07 +0100 > > > > > > Hi! > > > > > > I am a systems administrator at a cultural center in Belgium. We have 3 > > > light tables (12 years old) that are steered with a mouse but we only have > > > one mouse left. It was very hard for me to find a mouse that worked, > > > because it had to be a female DB9 Serial plug, with at least 7 cables > > > soldered. Finally I came across the Apple M0100 (Made in the U.S.A. type > > > 590-0320). At your website I found some pictures of the same mouse. My > > > question now is, do you know where I can find such a mouse, because if I > > > don't find it, it could cost the centre a lot more money than just the > > > price of one mouse. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > Arthur Odekerken > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Tony Duell" > > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 4:32 PM > > > Subject: Re: Fwd: Apple mouse needed in Belgium > > > > > > I am a systems administrator at a cultural center in Belgium. We have 3 > > > light tables (12 years old) that are steered with a mouse but we only have > > > one mouse left. It was very hard for me to find a mouse that worked, > > > because it had to be a female DB9 Serial plug, with at least 7 cables > > > > > ARGH!! 2 mistakes in as many 'words'. > > > > Firstly the trivial one, it's a DE9 socket, not a DB9 plug. > > > > And then the important one. It's not serial, it's quadrature signals (at > > least if that Apple mouse works). That, surely is more important than the > > connector (the pinout of the Apple mouse is known, and I can't believe > > there is nobody in Belgium who can solder wires to a DE9 socket, so (say) > > a PC bus mouse, or a Atari ST mouse, or... could be converted. > > > > The other thing that worries me is that 'we only have one mouse _left_' > > (my emphasis). It sounds as though they believe mice can't be repaired. > > Most of the problems are breaks in the cable or gummed up mechanical > > parts that cna easily be fixed. Alas this is an unconventional view these > > days... > > > > -tony > It's very hard to know what the "systems administrator in Belgium" really needs. A light table that in "steered" by a mouse may be a back-lit digitizing table and the "mouse" may be a tablet puck with only one button that just looks like an Apple mouse. On the other hand he may be using an old Mac as a controller for these light tables and needs the original Apple mouse. If it is a serial mouse then likely mice are: 1) Logitech C7 2) MouseSystems 3) Logitech R7 These all came with 9-pin D type female connectors. The early R7 and MouseSystems were made with 25-pin D type female connectors and both came with external power supplies. The Logitech C7 and later MouseSystems were powered by the RS-232 status lines and didn't use an external power supply. The Logitech mice could emulate some of the popular drawing tablet serial formats. What we need to know to more about are these light tables and how they are used. From justin at ingrid.raspberrytea.com Wed Jan 15 01:37:19 2003 From: justin at ingrid.raspberrytea.com (Justin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:25 2005 Subject: Ron Collison (and anyone else): XENIX Message-ID: I would be interested in buying XENIX, or trading for something. I would have replied to your email, but I read these forums on the web interface, so your email didn't appear there, and I don't have it delivered. If anyone has copies still availible, please email me: justin@raspberrytea.com BTW, whats true about the number of manuals/disks, etc, etc. Anyone have good resources on capabilities? does X compile on it? support for video. I assume it doesn't work, but then I've seen stranger things. Thanks!, Justin From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Wed Jan 15 01:50:01 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:25 2005 Subject: M100 Keys Sought Message-ID: Hmm... Now we're guessing between a cash register, a palmtop computer, a Tandy computer, a telephone, a jazzy car, or a spiral galaxy... I s'pose maybe his asking price will determine which it is....? Should I bet on the galaxy? Cheers! Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, TX; USA Phone (210) 592-3110, Fax (210) 592-2048 edward.tillman@valero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of > "Scarletdown" > Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 12:58 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: M100 Keys Sought > > From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: M100 Keys Sought > Send reply to: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > Date sent: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 22:41:02 -0800 (PST) > > > On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Ed Chiodo wrote: > > > I have a mint condition M100 that I would like to sell. > > > One problem: the original keys were replaced with custom screened > > > keys for an OEM application. Does anyone know of a source for > > > replacement keys? > > > > Is that the Samsung M100 phone? > > Or the Lotus Elan M100? > > > > (I doubt that you have the M100 spiral galaxy for sale) > > I'll sell you the Large Magellanic Cloud for $50,000, and throw in > the Small Magellanic Cloud as a bonus. :) > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3305 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030115/035a18e6/attachment.bin From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Jan 15 01:55:01 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:25 2005 Subject: M100 Keys Sought References: <200301142147_MC3-1-24D7-D7B7@compuserve.com> Message-ID: <002601c2bc6c$022a1f40$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> ED CHIODO wrote: > I have a mint condition M100 that I would like to sell. > One problem: the original keys were replaced with custom screened > keys for an OEM application. > Does anyone know where I can get replacement keys? You mean the Sord M100, don't you? I'd keep the keys as they are - IMO they make an ordinary machine, well, a little less ordinary. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Jan 15 01:58:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:25 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030113193032.02c689a0@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <003001c2bc6c$705c9240$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Rob O'Donnell wrote: >> Is that the "ARM evaluation unit" (or labelled as something >> similar)? I've got one of those *somewhere* but no docs / software >> for it. Think it had 4MB of memory which was a reasonable amount in >> those days. > > ARM Evaluation Kit - yep - that's the one. I do have various discs > and manuals for it, too. I used to love the "twin" editor - several > open files at one, and could cut and paste between them. Ahead of > it's time... > > It's all boxed up somewhere under the stairs though. You lucky devil - I've been looking for a BBC Micro ARM Evaluation Kit for years! I saw one at a show ("Last ARM Evaluation Kit In Existence") - that just made me want one even more :-) [BBC Micro expense] > They were expensive, but much more expandable than the spectrum. At > one point I had about six of them in my bedroom on an econet network, > had several on modems running a multi-user BBS. I've been wanting to get some Econet Interface boards for my A3000, A3010 and Master 128 and get them going on a small Econet network. The fact that I need a "clock box" has slightly dissuaded me... Later, -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com Wed Jan 15 02:03:00 2003 From: 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com (No Junk Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:25 2005 Subject: M100 Keys Sought Message-ID: <3830-54552@sneakemail.com> > Should I bet on the galaxy? No keys. > > On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Ed Chiodo wrote: > > > I have a mint condition M100 that I would like to sell. > > > One problem: the original keys were replaced with custom screened > > > keys for an OEM application. Does anyone know of a source for > > > replacement keys? From 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com Wed Jan 15 02:11:01 2003 From: 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com (No Junk Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:25 2005 Subject: M100 Keys Sought Message-ID: <3830-48668@sneakemail.com> > > I have a mint condition M100 that I would like to sell. > > One problem: the original keys were replaced with custom screened > > keys for an OEM application. > > Does anyone know where I can get replacement keys? > You mean the Sord M100, don't you? > I'd keep the keys as they are - IMO they make an ordinary machine, > well, a > little less ordinary. Nah, it's the Milonio M100 pool cue http://users.myexcel.com/hughtiernan/cues/id88.htm But seriously, leave the keys and try and include any material related to the reason for the custom job. Historically much more interesting that way... Chris J. From joe_web at worldonline.fr Wed Jan 15 02:14:19 2003 From: joe_web at worldonline.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?joe=5Fweb@worldonline.fr?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:25 2005 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:A_Few_New_Finds_Today?= Message-ID: I'm interes at the video cards, are they too for 1$? bye ---------- Initial Header ----------- From joe_web at worldonline.fr Wed Jan 15 02:15:10 2003 From: joe_web at worldonline.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?joe=5Fweb@worldonline.fr?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:26 2005 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_NeXT_archives/museum=3F?= Message-ID: hello, i waqnt to open a museum next summer/winter. if i can have some documents, i am interrest. do you speak french or german, because i live in frane, and my english is not very good. by ---------- Initial Header ----------- From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Wed Jan 15 02:16:02 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: M100 Keys Sought Message-ID: Cute... Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, TX; USA Phone (210) 592-3110, Fax (210) 592-2048 edward.tillman@valero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of "No Junk > Mail" <3sdiarftt02@sneakemail.com> > Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 2:07 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: RE: M100 Keys Sought > > > Should I bet on the galaxy? > > No keys. > > > > On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Ed Chiodo wrote: > > > > I have a mint condition M100 that I would like to sell. > > > > One problem: the original keys were replaced with custom screened > > > > keys for an OEM application. Does anyone know of a source for > > > > replacement keys? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2837 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030115/6346adb3/attachment.bin From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Jan 15 02:18:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: M100 Keys Sought In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Tillman, Edward wrote: > Now we're guessing between a cash register, a palmtop computer, a Tandy > computer, a telephone, a jazzy car, or a spiral galaxy... I s'pose maybe > his asking price will determine which it is....? Should I bet on the > galaxy? Certainly he means a DIY M100 Analogue Modular Synthesizer project! http://www.takeonetech.de/buchi/m100/ Or maybe a Lotus Elan M100, or a Konica Q-M100 digital camera, or a Sharp 19N-M100 television? -brian. From 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com Wed Jan 15 02:35:01 2003 From: 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com (No Junk Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: M100 Keys Sought Message-ID: <13138-45535@sneakemail.com> No, I've found it, the: Novx M100 Multipoint Microprocessor Continuous Reference Ground Monitor http://www.novxcorp.com/html/m100.html (Isn't Google fun?) > > Now we're guessing between a cash register, a palmtop computer, a > Tandy > > computer, a telephone, a jazzy car, or a spiral galaxy... > > Certainly he means a DIY M100 Analogue Modular Synthesizer project! > http://www.takeonetech.de/buchi/m100/ > > Or maybe a Lotus Elan M100, or a Konica Q-M100 digital camera, or a > Sharp 19N-M100 television? Chris J. From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Jan 15 02:43:00 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: Glacier Peak Rainbow In-Reply-To: <000001c2bc66$3a166ef0$0b00a8c0@critter> Message-ID: <3E24CC06.7424.D3A45C5@localhost> Well I am certainly interested. There are a few other Rainbow people on the list as well. There is also some movement to get Jeff Armstrongs old Rainbow site up and going again on Jay West's server. Your BBS site was the one that popped up most in the old FIDO Rainbow list. It would be great to have that archive available. Geoff Reed who's on this list and was a regular on the FIDO Rainbow pointed me in your direction but I was unable to track you down. I'll get back to you off-list. Lawrence On 14 Jan 2003, , Gary Stebbins wrote: > I just happened to run across your archived messages from > last November when searching the 'net for something else. > I'm not quite sure from what I saw exactly where the > messages were posted. That sure brings back memories! > > I still have the old files from Glacier Peak Rainbow sitting > on a hard drive (it's not like the old days when I was > worrying about exceeding the space on a 10 or 20 MB hard > drive). There are about 640 files in 22 MB. I could burn CDs > for anyone interested. > > Gary Stebbins > former Glacier Peak Rainbow sysop > > lgwalker@ mts.net From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jan 15 02:45:01 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: "Rob O'Donnell" "Re: Update: BBC Acorn" (Jan 13, 19:35) References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030113193032.02c689a0@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <10301150818.ZM7936@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 13, 19:35, Rob O'Donnell wrote: > At 09:44 14/01/2003 +0000, you wrote: > >Is that the "ARM evaluation unit" (or labelled as something similar)? I've got > >one of those *somewhere* but no docs / software for it. Think it had 4MB of > >memory which was a reasonable amount in those days. > > ARM Evaluation Kit - yep - that's the one. I do have various discs and > manuals for it, too. I used to love the "twin" editor - several open files > at one, and could cut and paste between them. Ahead of it's time... > > It's all boxed up somewhere under the stairs though. If you could dig out Disc 1 and make a copy, I'd be very grateful. I have an ARM Evaluation Kit too, with most of the manuals, but my Disc 1 is corrupt (blank track right in the middle of the assembler file). > That was about the time I was still single, working for Ferranti Computer > Systems (and I've never seen ANY of their computers lying about > anywhere... ) Hmm... I know someone who has just acquired a chunk of one -- not sure how much, but "most of it" is possibly a fair description. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Jan 15 02:53:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: M100 Keys Sought In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003401c2bc73$f3911df0$513bcd18@D73KSM11> > On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Tillman, Edward wrote: > > > Now we're guessing between a cash register, a palmtop computer, a > > Tandy computer, a telephone, a jazzy car, or a spiral > galaxy... I s'pose maybe > > his asking price will determine which it is....? Should I > bet on the > > galaxy? > > Certainly he means a DIY M100 Analogue Modular Synthesizer > project! http://www.takeonetech.de/buchi/m100/ > > Or maybe a Lotus Elan M100, or a Konica Q-M100 digital > camera, or a Sharp 19N-M100 television? > > -brian. > Well, it has to have keys. Therefore it must be the Hammond model M100 organ! From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Jan 15 03:02:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: M100 Keys Sought In-Reply-To: <003401c2bc73$f3911df0$513bcd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > Or maybe a Lotus Elan M100, or a Konica Q-M100 digital > > camera, or a Sharp 19N-M100 television? > > Well, it has to have keys. Therefore it must be the Hammond model > M100 organ! Well, the Lotus has keys. -brian. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Jan 15 03:11:01 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: M100 Keys Sought In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003501c2bc76$7aede8d0$513bcd18@D73KSM11> > > On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > > > Or maybe a Lotus Elan M100, or a Konica Q-M100 digital > camera, or a > > > Sharp 19N-M100 television? > > > > Well, it has to have keys. Therefore it must be the Hammond model > > M100 organ! > > Well, the Lotus has keys. > > -brian. > Touche From gstreet at indy.net Wed Jan 15 04:42:00 2003 From: gstreet at indy.net (Robert Greenstreet) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #378 - 36 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030114180001.14607.280.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030115055127.00b81750@pop.onemain.com> > 7. Xenix OS for early generation IBM PC (Ron Collison) > 8. Macro Assembler for early generation PC (Ron Collison) > 9. 8086/8088 Primer - an intro to the Architecture, System > Design, & Programming (Ron Collison) Hello Ron, Indeed, I'm interested too! Thank you, Robert Greenstreet From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jan 15 04:50:01 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn Message-ID: <20030115105344.99120.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, > ARM Evaluation Kit - yep - that's the one. I do have various discs and > manuals for it, too. I used to love the "twin" editor - several open files > at one, and could cut and paste between them. Ahead of it's time... yeah, that's it. Without any discs or being able to find anyone who knew anything about it I'm afraid mine got put in storage. I believe I've got the original polystyrene packaging for it, but no discs or outer box or anything (go figure) I've got some other BBC add-on in the same style housing as the ARM unit, but can't remember what it is now. It wasn't the teletext unit unfortunately, as that could have been interesting to play about with. > They were expensive, but much more expandable than the spectrum. At one > point I had about six of them in my bedroom on an econet network, had > several on modems running a multi-user BBS. excellent :-) I never got into the networking side of things with them (I've got all the fileserver/network for the RM Link machines which I believe were the schools alternative to having BBCs in the UK) Slowly picked up a few BBCs and assortments, plus I've got a Master somewhere that's fairly well modified from original spec (and an Acorn Cambridge Workstation which still needs a suitable hard drive and the OS discs to format it) Interesting machines as far as old 8-bitters go! > That was about the time I was still single, working for Ferranti Computer > Systems (and I've never seen ANY of their computers lying about anywhere... > ) and had plenty of money to indulge my hobby. I've got some sort of machine of theirs, housed in a shell a little bigger than an IBM XT, plus the guts of a second one - but I don't know if it's just some sort of XT clone. Uses an XT-style keyboard anyway and output was CGA compatible if I remember right. I certainly never got it to boot with any version of DOS I had though (from DOS 2.0 upward) - best I got was a 'missing operating system' one time. I seem to remember this machine is way more complex than the innards of an XT though, with about 1.5x the board space and a lot of ULA chips on board. I'm sure Ferranti produced much better machines than glorified IBM clones though, if that's what this is :-) cheers Jules __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jan 15 04:52:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn Message-ID: <20030115105546.83203.qmail@web21108.mail.yahoo.com> > You lucky devil - I've been looking for a BBC Micro ARM Evaluation Kit for > years! I saw one at a show ("Last ARM Evaluation Kit In Existence") - that > just made me want one even more :-) :-) Any idea how many were released into the wild? I certainly had no luck tracking down any info for mine when I last tried (which was about 8 years ago now, admittedly) They don't seem to have been that common at all... cheers Jules __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From arcarlini at iee.org Wed Jan 15 05:19:01 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: Technique for scanning in documentation In-Reply-To: <20030115045013.4E3AE43561@smtp-relay.omnis.com> Message-ID: <000001c2bc88$5d1cae10$cb87fe3e@athlon> > I have a bunch of documentation for my VAX 11/750 and > peripherals that I would like to scan in and make available. > What technique should I use? Start by looking at http://208.190.133.201/decimages/moremanuals.htm to see if they've already been done. I scanned the 750 prints that I had and those of various boards that were included (DMF32, a few PSUs etc.). It's short on 750 technical docs though. > I can scan individual pages, but how do I stitch them > together to make one big PDF file? Use a bigger scanner :-) Seriously an A3 or 11x17 scanner is the best option. Otherwise you need to use an image editing program to put it all together. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Wed Jan 15 05:37:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: Technique for scanning in documentation In-Reply-To: <32785.64.169.63.74.1042608822.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <000101c2bc8a$f0e84da0$cb87fe3e@athlon> > Some scanner software can output PDF directly. That's > probably the easiest approach. The Lexmark W810 and C710 I used to use did that, but it was not G4 compressed (not a big deal, but something to be aware of). > > If you have the full Acrobat package (not just the free > Acrobat Reader), it can import common image formats such as > TIFF and JPEG, but you have to do it one at a time. There Acrobat 4 can import up to 50 files at once. So if you have scanned to 50 individual TIFFs you can import them all in one go (it's not that speedy though!). I expect that Acrobat 5 can also import, but I could never find the right menu ! What it can do (which 4 and earlier could not) is spit out a PDF file as individual G4 compressed TIFFs. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Jan 15 06:44:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: Utter eBay Madness (was help w/pricing) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E2566B3.8831.6249CAB3@localhost> > On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Jay West wrote: > > > > There are, and have been, for decades, valid mathematical and actuarial > > > > methods for determining the value of a given object based on several > > > > criteria, including of course supply and demand. Why should ending prices > > > > of eBay auctions all of a sudden supercede that science? > Mathematic *this*!!! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2900526350 > I am only the Messenger, and for those of us who prefer not to follow > links... this auction (which ended *sucessfully*!!!) was for an 'egg' > that her *CAT* 'laid' after "...ten minutes of shrieking and acting really > bizarre.." Someone, possibly Short, Dark, and Handsome, paid a dollar for > it. Well, I one won the bid for a 'found' slice of Pizza ... he never delivered. > Enjoyment: www.whowouldbuythat.com cool > And I used to think that ASCII art of Nekkid Wimmin was the ultimate > perversion of technology.... Nop, that was just a sidebranch of a quite great invention which gave us wall size printouts of Steam Engines! Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Jan 15 07:08:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: Ohio Scientific C4P-MF ROMs In-Reply-To: <20030114231048.80675.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030113210738.00a5cf68@mail.acclamation.com> Message-ID: <3E256C3E.29680.625F6FC7@localhost> > > Can anyone out there with a C4P-MF send me the ROMs? > I gave my CP4 motherboard to Hans Franke when I stayed with him > a few years ago. Perhaps he could help. I never had the whole > system, but I _think_ it was from a C4P-MF. I will have a look if there are any markings on the board or ROMs. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Jan 15 07:33:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: Octane comes from October (WasRichard Crandall just cancelled a payment to you) In-Reply-To: References: <1042609234.22169@paypal.com> Message-ID: <3E25723A.4117.6276D0C3@localhost> > Damn!!! I gotta head into Reno to make a Costco and Sandy's run over > the weekend, and I was gonna fill the tank full with 92-octane pushwater.. 92 Oktane ? I thought you're pushed by a reasonable sized Merc? They usualy need 95 or above ... Gruss H. (Who still doesn't have a car needing th 98/99 grade sold at most stations, whose Bike requirres a whooping 76 or above :) -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From jthecman at netscape.net Wed Jan 15 07:40:23 2003 From: jthecman at netscape.net (John Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: A Few New Finds Today Message-ID: <077F66C1.2D439017.00A02E22@netscape.net> I will gladly keep my eyes open for a set for you. At auction this only cost me $10 because no one there wanted Mac stuff. As to were I get this stuff it's mostly at thrift's and auctions (the best are schools and tech businesses). I have cut back on the thrifts because of cashflow (no job yet) but I used to go by them everyday. Goodwill, Value Village, and Savers are the best for me. The Salvation Army is too high in the stores and at their daily auctions. Up North (MN) the U of M was a good place to get older items and because there was an article written about me in the paper up there I got lots of calls from people wanting to give me items. chris wrote: >>1. Black Macintosh TV no mouse, KB, or remote with it. Will test it on >>Wednesday. > >If you happen to ever come across any of the mouse, kb, remotes... I >could use a set. I have a Mac TV (finally... thanks John!!!), but it >lacks its extras as well (and currently is supposed to be DOA, but I hope >to finally have a look at it this weekend). > >I only run this by you because you seem to have the magical ability to >find the most awesome stuff at little to no cost... where DO you do you >hunting?!? > >Oh, and FYI: the MacTV will work with a universal remote. Sony TV code. >At least that is true with my PowerMac, which came with a remote that is >also compatible with the MacTV, so I draw the conclusion that the MacTV >should also be compatible with a universal remote, sony code set. > >-chris > > > __________________________________________________________________ The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ From joe_web at worldonline.fr Wed Jan 15 07:52:20 2003 From: joe_web at worldonline.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=EBl_Weber?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: Collectible Microcomputers References: <1042608311.5283@paypal.com> Message-ID: <002e01c2bc9e$52ae3b40$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> ??????????????????????????? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 6:25 AM Subject: Collectible Microcomputers > You've got cash! > > Richard Crandall just sent you money with PayPal. > > ------------------------------ > Payment Details > ------------------------------ > > Amount: $29.95 > Subject: Collectible Microcomputers > > > > > > Simply click https://www.paypal.com/links/uni and complete PayPal's > one-page registration form to claim your money. For a limited > time, if you sign up and complete the bonus requirements, you will > receive a $5 New Account Bonus. > > You may withdraw your money at any time by requesting a check > or making a direct deposit to your bank account. You can also > send the money to your friends. > > PayPal lets users send money to anyone with an email address. Use > PayPal.com to settle restaurant tabs with colleagues, pay > friends for movie tickets, or buy a baseball card at an online > auction. You can also send personalized money requests to your > friends for a group event or party. > > For more information about PayPal, check out http://www.paypal.com/. > > Welcome to PayPal! > > The PayPal Team > > Note: If you are already a PayPal member, click the link below > to add and confirm this email address (cctech@classiccmp.org) > so this payment can be credited to your account. > > https://www.paypal.com/EMAIL-ADD > > From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 15 09:35:00 2003 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: Octane comes from October (WasRichard Crandall just cancelled a payment to you) Message-ID: Damn, You can't hardly find higher than 93.5 or so here in Colorado... < jealous of those who can get 100 octane at the pump. Sure, my car needs only 87, but if I could get higher octane gas I could drive a car with higher compression ;p Will J _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From pdm4606 at sbcglobal.net Wed Jan 15 09:39:00 2003 From: pdm4606 at sbcglobal.net (Paul Mika) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: OT: paging MAC expert(s) --- What's a Performa In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Maryann; The portable should have a model number somewhere. That could give me some info as to processor and speed. Need that first. The "Performa" line was an attempt by Apple to sell through non-traditional stores like Sears and such. It was super easy to buy. It came preconfigured and was sold as a total package including mon. and printer. I believe the 6360 may be a "Power PC" and faster than the older Macs. It may also have remote infrared capabilities. You could see that in the small red window on the front. I am glad that you stuck with Mac an got an iMac. Wanna sell the 6360??? Paul Mika From whdawson at localisps.net Wed Jan 15 09:50:01 2003 From: whdawson at localisps.net (whdawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: Prelinger & Computer Chronicles Archives Message-ID: Found in the Prelinger Archive: On Guard! The Story of SAGE Innovations in computer technology as weapons in the Cold War. ca 1956 IBM Watch stream or download movie as DIVX (38M), MPEG2 (280M), VCD (123M) http://webdev.archive.org/movies/details-db.php?collection=prelinger&collect ionid=06855 Also, 230 Computer Chronicles Episodes are available for viewing or downloading: http://www.archive.org/movies/computerchronicles.php Gary Kildall Special : http://www.archive.org/movies/movies-details-db.php?collection=computerchron icles&collectionid=1814&from=BA Bill From kth at srv.net Wed Jan 15 09:53:01 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: Technique for scanning in documentation References: <000101c2bc8a$f0e84da0$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: <3E25896A.1080906@srv.net> Antonio Carlini wrote: >>Some scanner software can output PDF directly. That's >>probably the easiest approach. >> >> > >The Lexmark W810 and C710 I used to use did that, but it >was not G4 compressed (not a big deal, but something to >be aware of). > > >>If you have the full Acrobat package (not just the free >>Acrobat Reader), it can import common image formats such as >>TIFF and JPEG, but you have to do it one at a time. There >> >> > >Acrobat 4 can import up to 50 files at once. So if you have >scanned to 50 individual TIFFs you can import them all in >one go (it's not that speedy though!). I expect that >Acrobat 5 can also import, but I could never find the >right menu ! What it can do (which 4 and earlier could not) >is spit out a PDF file as individual G4 compressed TIFFs. > >Antonio > > If you don't have acrobat, but have a current RedHat Linux setup: If you start out with tiff images, you can use the following sequence to end up with a pdf (as long as you don't get any fatal errors), assuming that the original tiff files are named something like 't1-001.tif' ... 't1-999.tif' and the final file will be named 't1.pdf' tiffcp t1-*.tif t1.tif tiff2ps -a t1.tif > t1.ps ps2pdf t1.ps t1.pdf rm t1.tif rm t1.ps tiffcp is used to merge all the tif files into a single tif file. tiff2ps converts the tif file into a postscript one (very big file) ps2pdf converts the postscript file into a pdf one (smaller than the postscript) and rm killes the intermediate files. There are some 'tif' formats that the programs will not handle, but it will give you a nasty error message if you try one of those. From mrbill at mrbill.net Wed Jan 15 10:18:21 2003 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: [dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca: PDP-11 stuff to get rid of] Message-ID: <20030115162100.GX27741@mrbill.net> Contact David directly if interested. ----- Forwarded message from David Evans ----- Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 10:06:15 -0500 From: David Evans To: mrbill@pdp11.org Subject: PDP-11 stuff to get rid of You want to come and haul my RA80 away? :-) -- David Evans (NeXTMail/MIME OK) dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual ----- End forwarded message ----- -- bill bradford mrbill@mrbill.net austin, texas From mrbill at mrbill.net Wed Jan 15 10:21:18 2003 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: [dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca: Re: PDP-11 stuff to get rid of] Message-ID: <20030115162356.GY27741@mrbill.net> More details. Bill ----- Forwarded message from David Evans ----- Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 11:22:46 -0500 From: David Evans To: Bill Bradford Subject: Re: PDP-11 stuff to get rid of On Wed, Jan 15, 2003 at 10:13:58AM -0600, Bill Bradford wrote: > I can find some people to get it, if its okay for me to forward your > mail to a couple of mailing lists. > Sure. It's just way too massive, I can't devote proper power to it, and I can get the same amusement value in my 11/73 using SCSI disks on an MSCP adapter. It's located in Waterloo, in southern Ontario, Canada. I'd love to trade it for a PDP-11 nameplate for a BA123 (mine right now claims to be a VAXstation II/GPX) or maybe some more memory for my KDJ11-B, but I wouldn't say no to somebody willing to take it for the price of helping haul it down the stairs. :-) I have the rack rails and some SDI cables, too. I guess I could throw in a KDA50, since I doubt I'll ever need that given that I have the SCSI controller, but I can just as easily hang on to those boards since they're little. -- David Evans (NeXTMail/MIME OK) dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual ----- End forwarded message ----- -- bill bradford mrbill@mrbill.net austin, texas From cb at mythtech.net Wed Jan 15 10:52:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: A Few New Finds Today Message-ID: >I will gladly keep my eyes open for a set for you. At auction this only >cost me $10 because no one there wanted Mac stuff. Thanks. >As to were I get this stuff it's mostly at thrift's and auctions (the best >are schools and tech businesses The trifts around here never have anything that great, also tend to be expensive, and one of them won't even sell CPUs, just the rest of the stuff that went with it. (I finally got official word as to what happens when someone drops off a computer.. they told me it isn't an issue, they refuse them at the door, and they now chain off the lot at night and Sundays when they are closed so people can't drop off stuff and leave). Schools around here don't seem to auction things publically (once in a while they do them privately inside the school, but for the most part, they just throw stuff out... but at least I made a contact with someone at the school board of one of the local towns and told them to cut it out, if they are chucking things, give them to me, I'll take care of removal and disposal... they liked the idea as it reduced their costs, but I haven't heard from them since... maybe they just haven't tossed anything since I contacted them, I'll have to give them another call soon). And businesses... humm... around here, there are a few Pharmacutical companies, that is about it of size... and they destroy anything being disposed of (I tried REALLY REALLY hard to get stuff from one that was doing a major upgrade... they were literally throwing out brand new 15" LCD screens because they upped everyone to 17"s before all of the 15" were given out... but their policy dictated that they must be destroyed, so they were cracking them all before chucking them in the dumpster... I have a friend that works at the place, and he said it was killing him to do it and he and I made a number of calls to see if at the very least they would donate them to a local school or something... and people wonder why drugs cost so much in the USA!!). So it sounds like I am just in a crappy part of the country for computer salvage. I'll have to start poking around for other auctions... and maybe make a trip to the local land of landfills and see if any of the yards get machines they want to have removed. But at least I have been on the right track... I'm just going to have to try harder in the future. Thanks for the tips. -chris From allain at panix.com Wed Jan 15 10:59:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: Prelinger & Computer Chronicles Archives References: Message-ID: <001b01c2bcb7$e30221c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Computer Chronicles Episodes are available for viewing or > downloading: > http://www.archive.org/movies/computerchronicles.php > Gary Kildall Special : > http://www.archive.org/movies/movies-details-db.php? > collection=computerchronicles&collectionid=1814&from=BA Fantastic. I just viewed the low-res version; many priceless perspectives. Anybody with Broadband want to make a CD of the HiRes for me? It's 700+MB, that's 60+ hours download on modem. John A. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Jan 15 11:28:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: Octane comes from October (WasRichard Crandall just cancelled a payment to you) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3E25A930.12735.634D81A3@localhost> > Damn, > You can't hardly find higher than 93.5 or so here in Colorado... < jealous > of those who can get 100 octane at the pump. Sure, my car needs only 87, but > if I could get higher octane gas I could drive a car with higher compression > ;p Well, before compareing Octane numbers we have to define what measurement we use. At German stations usualy the ROZ is given. ROZ stands for Research Oktane Zahl. The English/German mixup is a historical thing. As far as I know, the whole octane calculation was made up by some German scientists who did develop the measurements. The result was a calculation where the given fuel is compared to a mixture of n-Heptan or Trimethylpentan (OZ=0) and Isooktan (OZ=100). Since fuel mixtures can be better than Isooktan, numbers higher than 100 are possible. The measurement is done with a defined standard engine runing at a specific speed, a fixed advance angle and an air intake at 50 C. Anothor number is the so called MOZ (Motor Oktan Zahl), where the test series runns at a higher speed and an intake temperature of I think 150 C, which is closer to a real situation. For modern fuels this number is usualy 8-10 lower then the ROZ. For example: MOZ ROZ Regular 83 91 Super 85 95 Super Plus 88 98 US station _in_most_states_ give the POZ (Pump Oktan Zahl) which is the average between MOZ and ROZ, so if we take the above examples, A German 91 ROZ (lowest quality available) would be sold as 87 in the US. These numbers are just as rough rule of thumb usable. Beside ROZ, MOZ and POZ there's also: SOZ, Strassen (Street) Oktan Zahl, where the tests are done with more real profile. One interesting fact is thet the SOZ calculations give backing to both, MOZ and ROZ. It looks like the ROZ value gives a good number for performance during acceleration (for acceleration profiles SOZ and ROZ are similar), while MOZ seams to sow the high load reaction of a given fuel. Last there is also the FOZ, Fron Oktan Zahl, where the fuel will be distilled, and only the parts with a boiling point above 100 C are used for the OZ calculation. The idea is to look closer at the volatile parts within the mix. Now, all these numbers are taken from my memory. There may be some twists by now. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From lemay at cs.umn.edu Wed Jan 15 11:48:34 2003 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (lemay@cs.umn.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: A Few New Finds Today In-Reply-To: <077F66C1.2D439017.00A02E22@netscape.net> Message-ID: <200301151750.LAA11902@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > Up North (MN) the U of M was a good place to get older items and because there was an article written about me in the paper up there I got lots of calls from people wanting to give me items. Not anymore. They stopped allowing people to view and buy items at the Como recycling center over a year ago. -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu From univac2 at earthlink.net Wed Jan 15 11:51:00 2003 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: OT: paging MAC expert(s) --- What's a Performa In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 1/15/03 9:42 AM, Paul Mika at pdm4606@sbcglobal.net wrote: > The "Performa" line was an attempt by Apple to sell through non-traditional > stores like Sears and such. It was super easy to buy. It came preconfigured > and was sold as a total package including mon. and printer. And usually a modem and microphone. They were definitely geared towards home users who wanted a packaged, all-in-one solution. Not a bad marketing strategy really, but the naming conventions got way out of hand. Performa, Quadra, Centris, LC, with meaningless numbers tacked on the end... The PowerMac line took back control over the naming of the systems. The first Mac I ever had in my home was a PowerMac 6100/60 that my mom bought for desktop publishing work back when the PowerMac line was brand new. It was amazing to see Windows 3.1 running faster under emulation than on my friend's top of the line, custom built 486. Yes, seriously. > I believe the 6360 may be a "Power PC" and faster than the older Macs. It > may also have remote infrared capabilities. You could see that in the small > red window on the front. I have a 200Mhz 6400 tower. Pretty nice machine, except that it lacks ethernet. I've got it running MacOS 8.0, and until recently, I also had BeOS on it. Runs both really well. Has a built in subwoofer for incredibly rich sound. My main complaint: Other than adding RAM or PCI cards, upgrades are nearly impossible with that impenetrable case. More info on the 6360 can be found at: http://www.lowendmac.com/ppc/6360.shtml > I am glad that you stuck with Mac an got an iMac. Yes, that was a wise move in my opinion. I never used to think much of Macs until I got one. I loved it so much I moved everything to Mac. Now all my main computers are Macs. And I am, as the book says, learning Cocoa with Objective-C. -- Owen Robertson From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 15 12:04:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: M100 Keys Sought In-Reply-To: <3E249604.8076.447298D@localhost> Message-ID: > > Is that the Samsung M100 phone? > > Or the Lotus Elan M100? > > (I doubt that you have the M100 spiral galaxy for sale) On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Scarletdown wrote: > I'll sell you the Large Magellanic Cloud for $50,000, and throw in > the Small Magellanic Cloud as a bonus. :) Sorry. Much as I'd love to add it to my collection, I'm having MAJOR problems with storage space - I had to hand over most of my collection to Sellam, just due to lack adequate space. (space is NOT expanding) From cb at mythtech.net Wed Jan 15 12:13:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: OT: paging MAC expert(s) --- What's a Performa Message-ID: > My main complaint: Other than adding RAM or PCI cards, upgrades are >nearly impossible with that impenetrable case. It isn't too bad once you have done it a few times... and having the take apart directions from Apple makes life SOOO much easier. The trick is popping that front panel off. Of course, the motherboard just slides out the back, so unless you are upgrading the drives, it is fairly easy access for RAM and PCI cards. If you want a copy of the Apple PDF on the 6400/6500 let me know, I'll dig mine out and send it over to you. -chris From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Wed Jan 15 12:21:01 2003 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: M100 Keys Sought In-Reply-To: References: <3E249604.8076.447298D@localhost> Message-ID: <3E2535FD.8195.6B824B4@localhost> From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: M100 Keys Sought Send reply to: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date sent: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 10:05:21 -0800 (PST) > > > Is that the Samsung M100 phone? > > > Or the Lotus Elan M100? > > > (I doubt that you have the M100 spiral galaxy for sale) > > On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Scarletdown wrote: > > I'll sell you the Large Magellanic Cloud for $50,000, and throw in > > the Small Magellanic Cloud as a bonus. :) > > Sorry. > Much as I'd love to add it to my collection, I'm having MAJOR > problems with storage space - I had to hand over most of my > collection to Sellam, just due to lack adequate space. > (space is NOT expanding) > So then, it seems that you are getting an early start on the Cosmic Crunch? I can sweeten the deal and include Sol at no extra cost. It's pretty much guaranteed to expand in value in about 32 million years or so; a real hot deal. :) -- Scarletdown From root at parse.com Wed Jan 15 12:28:02 2003 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: How many PDP-12's are there now? Message-ID: <200301150503.AAA08628@parse.com> So... all this discussion about PDP-12's has got me curious. How many of them are there in existence? It would certainly be interesting to get a list of machines and at least city locations -- I'll start the list: Ottawa/ON/Canada (mine) Roswell/GA/USA If anyone wants to send me info, I'll volunteer to collect and put it up on my website (I won't put email addresses or other incriminating evidence unless you want me to :-)). The other interesting thing that this discussion begs is the topic of (borrowed term) "biomagnification". It's from the environmental field, and basically relates to how bigger animals get more than their "fair" share of poisons because they eat smaller animals which have already concentrated the poisons in their systems. I've borrowed the term because lately what I've been thinking about is the accumulated collections of people who are no longer interested in collecting -- in this case, instead of just getting one or two machines at a time, you tend to get "clusters" of machines -- hence "biomagnification" :-) So... any collectors out there getting rid of PDP stuff? :-) Cheers, -RK -- Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Wed Jan 15 12:28:54 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: Guess What Operating System... Message-ID: <3E25A860.1050204@Vishay.com> ... uses a dot as a prompt and responds to each of the commands "dir", "date", "ver" and a lot of others only with a "?"...? This question was asked at the Frankfurt Meeting 2002, an event of the "realtime special interest group" (RT-SIG) within German DECUS. I wasn't there, but just read an article in the "DECUS Bulletin". It looks like the system was presented to the audience life from a networked notebook. The report has it that after some guessing, someone suggested to try uppercase, and "VER" lead to the solution: EURO-12, running on a real, still fully functional PDP-12, connected to a terminal server, allowing the notebook to display the dialog. There is a small, but high quality picture in the bulletin, showing the blinkenlights (some of them actually illuminated) and switches, a screen that might be a GT40 or something that looks similar, and a dual DECtape drive (TU56, I guess). WOW! -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From jrengdahl at safeaccess.com Wed Jan 15 12:33:42 2003 From: jrengdahl at safeaccess.com (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay References: Message-ID: <006f01c2bc5b$2efb1d50$8a00a8c0@Arctura> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Chase" > > I don't recognize > the new high bidder's name at all. The chances are that we'll never see > copies of those docs now. Checking the address of the guy that's bidding $5000: here is an article http://www.syssrc.com/html/company_info/news081101.shtml, and here is his online computer museum: http://www.syssrc.com/html/museum/. Don't despair. -- Jonathan Engdahl http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/PDP-11.htm "The things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 From gbs at gstebbins.com Wed Jan 15 12:34:29 2003 From: gbs at gstebbins.com (Gary Stebbins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: Glacier Peak Rainbow Message-ID: <000001c2bc66$3a166ef0$0b00a8c0@critter> I just happened to run across your archived messages from last November when searching the 'net for something else. I'm not quite sure from what I saw exactly where the messages were posted. That sure brings back memories! I still have the old files from Glacier Peak Rainbow sitting on a hard drive (it's not like the old days when I was worrying about exceeding the space on a 10 or 20 MB hard drive). There are about 640 files in 22 MB. I could burn CDs for anyone interested. Gary Stebbins former Glacier Peak Rainbow sysop -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030115/48b7b19d/attachment.html From rob at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Wed Jan 15 12:34:59 2003 From: rob at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: <003001c2bc6c$705c9240$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030113193032.02c689a0@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030114083902.029fe008@pop.freeserve.net> At 08:02 15/01/2003 +0000, you wrote: > > ARM Evaluation Kit - yep - that's the one. I do have various discs > > and manuals for it, too. I used to love the "twin" editor - several > > open files at one, and could cut and paste between them. Ahead of > > it's time... > > > > It's all boxed up somewhere under the stairs though. >You lucky devil - I've been looking for a BBC Micro ARM Evaluation Kit for >years! I saw one at a show ("Last ARM Evaluation Kit In Existence") - that >just made me want one even more :-) I saw one go on eBay for GBP 750 start of last year ... there are a few kicking about. >[BBC Micro expense] > > They were expensive, but much more expandable than the spectrum. At > > one point I had about six of them in my bedroom on an econet network, > > had several on modems running a multi-user BBS. >I've been wanting to get some Econet Interface boards for my A3000, A3010 >and Master 128 and get them going on a small Econet network. The fact that I >need a "clock box" has slightly dissuaded me... I have an original acorn terminator box that was converted to be a clock (they had same PCB inside, populated differently) in a non-standard way - this one seemed to use not much more than a 555. I'll try and dig it out and trace the circuit, if it would help. Replacement terminators were not much harder to make - three or four resistors in the back of a 5-pin DIN was enough. I was never quite sure what the one acorn supplied needed a PSU for ..! Cabling was simply daisy-chain the BBC's in parallel. Rob From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Jan 15 12:35:31 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: Shark Update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: 15 January 2003 00:35 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Shark Update > > Also called a 'Helping Hand' over here. > > I've never found them useful. There's too much play and/or springiness in > the 'arms' to keep the parts really where I want them. Things tend to > move at just th wrong moment. I prefer to clamp the connector in a good > bench vice, then hold the wire and solder with one hand (wire between > thumb and first finger, solder between second and third fingers) and the > iron in the other hand. It's not hard to keep everything just where you > want it with a little practice. I was looking at those yesterday whilst buying a new soldering iron (Antex temp adjustable - can't believe I've managed without one for so long!) and they just look like crocodile clips on flimsy arms. I then totally impressed meself by making a converter cable for a Sinclair QL RGB port without melting anything other than the solder :) Trouble is I've plugged it into an Amsturd CM14 monitor and I can't find an H-WIDTH pot anywhere on the board to shrink the display down to QL sizes.....grrr.... -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From rob at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Wed Jan 15 12:36:07 2003 From: rob at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: <10301150818.ZM7936@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <"Rob O'Donnell" <5.1.1.6.0.20030113193032.02c689a0@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030114111252.01a5aeb0@pop.freeserve.net> At 08:18 15/01/2003 +0000, pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: >On Jan 13, 19:35, Rob O'Donnell wrote: > > > > > ARM Evaluation Kit - yep - that's the one. I do have various discs and > > manuals for it, too. I used to love the "twin" editor - several open >files > > at one, and could cut and paste between them. Ahead of it's time... > > > > It's all boxed up somewhere under the stairs though. > >If you could dig out Disc 1 and make a copy, I'd be very grateful. I have >an ARM Evaluation Kit too, with most of the manuals, but my Disc 1 is >corrupt (blank track right in the middle of the assembler file). Yep, sure, no probs. Email me your address off-list & I'll send you a copy. > > That was about the time I was still single, working for Ferranti Computer > > Systems (and I've never seen ANY of their computers lying about > > anywhere... ) > >Hmm... I know someone who has just acquired a chunk of one -- not sure how >much, but "most of it" is possibly a fair description. While I worked there, it was just as an apprentice, but I had a long play on one of the computers destined for a fire brigade. That was a weird system. Terminals seemed to be on a polled system - Fill in the fields and press Send key. Odd, compared to the interactive stuff I was used to. But I see it all again now, on web forms! I visited one of them in-situ at Bradford Police, too, to install a modification to a board that I had designed. Did you know they had an adventure game on it that the operators could access if they had a spare moment.. lol. Rob From rob at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Wed Jan 15 12:36:39 2003 From: rob at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:27 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: <20030115105344.99120.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030114112413.02d5c080@pop.freeserve.net> At 10:53 15/01/2003 +0000, you wrote: >Hi, > > > ARM Evaluation Kit - yep - that's the one. I do have various discs and > > manuals for it, too. I used to love the "twin" editor - several open files > > at one, and could cut and paste between them. Ahead of it's time... > >yeah, that's it. Without any discs or being able to find anyone who knew >anything about it I'm afraid mine got put in storage. I believe I've got the >original polystyrene packaging for it, but no discs or outer box or anything >(go figure) Hmm. I've not got the box any more, mores the pity. >I've got some other BBC add-on in the same style housing as the ARM unit, but >can't remember what it is now. It wasn't the teletext unit unfortunately, as >that could have been interesting to play about with. There were no end of accessories that all used the same box. Various add-on processors, modem (prestel adapter) etc. > > They were expensive, but much more expandable than the spectrum. At one > > point I had about six of them in my bedroom on an econet network, had > > several on modems running a multi-user BBS. > >excellent :-) >I never got into the networking side of things with them (I've got all the >fileserver/network for the RM Link machines which I believe were the schools >alternative to having BBCs in the UK) I've still got a 20Mb hard disc that I was using on the fileserver... that cost me a packet, at the time.. >Slowly picked up a few BBCs and assortments, plus I've got a Master somewhere >that's fairly well modified from original spec (and an Acorn Cambridge >Workstation which still needs a suitable hard drive and the OS discs to format >it) > >Interesting machines as far as old 8-bitters go! > > > That was about the time I was still single, working for Ferranti Computer > > Systems (and I've never seen ANY of their computers lying about anywhere... > > ) and had plenty of money to indulge my hobby. > >I've got some sort of machine of theirs, housed in a shell a little bigger >than >an IBM XT, plus the guts of a second one - but I don't know if it's just some >sort of XT clone. Uses an XT-style keyboard anyway and output was CGA >compatible if I remember right. I certainly never got it to boot with any >version of DOS I had though (from DOS 2.0 upward) - best I got was a 'missing >operating system' one time. > >I seem to remember this machine is way more complex than the innards of an XT >though, with about 1.5x the board space and a lot of ULA chips on board. > >I'm sure Ferranti produced much better machines than glorified IBM clones >though, if that's what this is :-) They did do an IBM XT clone - we had to use some of them. Big black ugly box. Cassette based, with an upgrade available to floppy disc. W.H.Smiths used to sell them to the public..! They were not a success. I seem to recall wandering into the test department one day to find them erasing hundreds of EPROMs and re-burning them (coz they had the equipment) apparently whomever wrote the bios for it had pinched rather too much IBM code, and they all had to be wiped and re-programmed with new bios routines.. Rob >cheers > >Jules > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Everything you'll ever need on one web page >from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts >http://uk.my.yahoo.com From rob at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Wed Jan 15 12:37:10 2003 From: rob at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: <20030115105546.83203.qmail@web21108.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030114113152.02c825a0@pop.freeserve.net> At 10:55 15/01/2003 +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: > > You lucky devil - I've been looking for a BBC Micro ARM Evaluation Kit for > > years! I saw one at a show ("Last ARM Evaluation Kit In Existence") - that > > just made me want one even more :-) > >:-) >Any idea how many were released into the wild? I certainly had no luck >tracking >down any info for mine when I last tried (which was about 8 years ago now, >admittedly) > >They don't seem to have been that common at all... I think mine was one of the last - it was a competition prize donated by Acorn. I'll check the serial number when I get home. Some old pictures http://www.irrelevant.com/pics/Image001.jpg http://www.irrelevant.com/pics/Image004.jpg http://www.irrelevant.com/pics/Image005.jpg http://www.irrelevant.com/pics/Image006.jpg http://www.irrelevant.com/pics/Image008.jpg From nerdware at ctgonline.org Wed Jan 15 12:37:41 2003 From: nerdware at ctgonline.org (nerdware@ctgonline.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: OT: paging MAC expert(s) --- What's a Performa Message-ID: <200301151550.h0FFo4G04869@garcon.ctgonline.org> If you go to http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=112379 you'll see the 6360 is a 603e running at 160MHz. It'll also tell you about what configuration it shipped in, max ram, etc. Paul ORIGINAL MESSAGE FOLLOWS: Maryann; The portable should have a model number somewhere. That could give me some info as to processor and speed. Need that first. The "Performa" line was an attempt by Apple to sell through non-traditional stores like Sears and such. It was super easy to buy. It came preconfigured and was sold as a total package including mon. and printer. I believe the 6360 may be a "Power PC" and faster than the older Macs. It may also have remote infrared capabilities. You could see that in the small red window on the front. I am glad that you stuck with Mac an got an iMac. Wanna sell the 6360??? Paul Mika From m_d at pacbell.net Wed Jan 15 12:38:13 2003 From: m_d at pacbell.net (m_d) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: Ron Collison (and anyone else): XENIX References: Message-ID: <003601c2bca7$c59c2460$84539384@ca.caldera.com> > BTW, whats true about the number of manuals/disks, etc, etc. > Anyone have good resources on capabilities? does X compile on it? > support for video. I assume it doesn't work, but then I've seen stranger > things. > If this is what I think it is - ie IBM XENIX for the PC/AT it's a fairly early XENIX 286 which is probably at a level of functionality roughly equivalent to UNIX System III. Being a 16 bit 286 port you have to live within the limits of a 64K segmented architecture - I'm pretty sure the compiler supported small model (1 x 64k code segment + 1 x 64k data segment) and middle model (multiple 64k code segments + 1 64k data segment). It may or may not have supported large model (multiple code and data segments) but even if it did the support was probably pretty buggy. Don't even think about trying to build things like X unless you are extremely masochistic. From cott at acclamation.com Wed Jan 15 12:38:45 2003 From: cott at acclamation.com (cott@acclamation.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: Ohio Scientific C4P-MF ROMs Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030115124558.032b9358@mail.acclamation.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: >--- cott@acclamation.com wrote: > > Can anyone out there with a C4P-MF send me the ROMs? > > I gave my CP4 motherboard to Hans Franke when I stayed with him > a few years ago. Perhaps he could help. I never had the whole > system, but I _think_ it was from a C4P-MF. > > -ethan Actually, I guess I wasn't clear: I don't need the physical ROMs, just the contents. If someone could Email them to me, that would be fine. Thanks, Chris Ott -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030115/d9a23a3e/attachment.html From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Wed Jan 15 12:40:02 2003 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen / Marian Capel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: M100 Keys Sought In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200301151944.02076.jos.mar@bluewin.ch> On Wednesday 15 January 2003 10:05 am, Brian Chase wrote: > On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > Well, the Lotus has keys. > > -brian. Yes the lotus had keys .... One for the doors, another one for the boot and yet another one for the glove box....... It leaked when the street was wet, ( badly fitted fibreglass panels ), needed new tyres after 20000 km. But I still miss mine very much.... Classiccmp content ? it must be the only fun roadster that can take a PDP 8/E in the boot. I tried. Jos Dreesen From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Wed Jan 15 12:40:36 2003 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: Semi OT: Apple CD-ROM Driver 5.3.1 Message-ID: <3E2537E0.14727.6BF845C@localhost> Anyone out there have the Apple CD-ROM Driver 5.3.1 that they might be willing to email my way? I just recently picked up a Toshiba XM- 520 SCSI CD-ROM drive in hopes of being able to use it with both my Apple IIGS and my Performa 405. I've been told that the GS (equipped as it is with a RAMFast SCSI Card) should handle it fine; but since the Performa is running System 7.5, I need the Apple CD-ROM Driver 5.3.1 from System 7.6 to be able to use non-Apple CD-ROM drives. -- Scarletdown From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Jan 15 12:44:08 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: How many PDP-12's are there now? In-Reply-To: <200301150503.AAA08628@parse.com> Message-ID: <00a501c2bcc6$897e56a0$020010ac@k4jcw> I live in GA, very near Roswell. What's the info on the '12? --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Robert Krten > Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 00:04 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: How many PDP-12's are there now? > > > > So... > > all this discussion about PDP-12's has got me curious. > > How many of them are there in existence? > > It would certainly be interesting to get a list of machines and at > least city locations -- I'll start the list: > > Ottawa/ON/Canada (mine) > Roswell/GA/USA > > If anyone wants to send me info, I'll volunteer to collect and put it > up on my website (I won't put email addresses or other incriminating > evidence unless you want me to :-)). > > The other interesting thing that this discussion begs is the topic of > (borrowed term) "biomagnification". It's from the > environmental field, > and basically relates to how bigger animals get more than their "fair" > share of poisons because they eat smaller animals which have already > concentrated the poisons in their systems. I've borrowed the > term because > lately what I've been thinking about is the accumulated collections of > people who are no longer interested in collecting -- in this case, > instead of just getting one or two machines at a time, you tend to > get "clusters" of machines -- hence "biomagnification" :-) > > So... any collectors out there getting rid of PDP stuff? :-) > > Cheers, > -RK > > -- > Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 > minicomputers! > Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. > Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at > www.parse.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 15 12:47:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: Video to DVD/VCD? (was: Prelinger & Computer Chronicles Archives In-Reply-To: <001b01c2bcb7$e30221c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: I occasionally show my students the Kildall eulogy, and sometimes "Hackers : heroes of the electronic age", which I have on VHS. I would love to get them on some sort of digital medium, particularly DVD or VCD. Is there anybody here who can do a transfer from VHS? Thank you, -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, John Allain wrote: > > Computer Chronicles Episodes are available for viewing or > > downloading: > > http://www.archive.org/movies/computerchronicles.php > > Gary Kildall Special : > > http://www.archive.org/movies/movies-details-db.php? > > collection=computerchronicles&collectionid=1814&from=BA > > Fantastic. I just viewed the low-res version; many priceless > perspectives. Anybody with Broadband want to make a CD > of the HiRes for me? It's 700+MB, that's 60+ hours download > on modem. From computermuseum at pandora.be Wed Jan 15 12:51:00 2003 From: computermuseum at pandora.be (Computermuseum) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: PDP 11 In-Reply-To: <00a501c2bcc6$897e56a0$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: Hi Someone intersted in a PDP 11? I have one for ... name your price... 500 Us$ Michel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens J.C.Wren Verzonden: woensdag 15 januari 2003 19:47 Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org Onderwerp: RE: How many PDP-12's are there now? I live in GA, very near Roswell. What's the info on the '12? --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Robert Krten > Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 00:04 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: How many PDP-12's are there now? > > > > So... > > all this discussion about PDP-12's has got me curious. > > How many of them are there in existence? > > It would certainly be interesting to get a list of machines and at > least city locations -- I'll start the list: > > Ottawa/ON/Canada (mine) > Roswell/GA/USA > > If anyone wants to send me info, I'll volunteer to collect and put it > up on my website (I won't put email addresses or other incriminating > evidence unless you want me to :-)). > > The other interesting thing that this discussion begs is the topic of > (borrowed term) "biomagnification". It's from the > environmental field, > and basically relates to how bigger animals get more than their "fair" > share of poisons because they eat smaller animals which have already > concentrated the poisons in their systems. I've borrowed the > term because > lately what I've been thinking about is the accumulated collections of > people who are no longer interested in collecting -- in this case, > instead of just getting one or two machines at a time, you tend to > get "clusters" of machines -- hence "biomagnification" :-) > > So... any collectors out there getting rid of PDP stuff? :-) > > Cheers, > -RK > > -- > Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 > minicomputers! > Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. > Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at > www.parse.com From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Jan 15 12:52:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: How many PDP-12's are there now? In-Reply-To: <200301150503.AAA08628@parse.com> Message-ID: > How many of them are there in existence? Quite a lot. It is a very cool computer for a hacker - a classic mini with all sorts of bells and whistles (in the case of the earlier LINC-8, literally). Guys kept them. At RCS a while back, we figured there are 20 or 25 known examples left. Since then, a few more have popped up. This is a much better than average survival rate. Quite a few PDP-12s are in the hands of relatively quiet collectors. For example, one man that came to RCS used to work on -12s for a living, and has four of them (three are blue faced Clinical-12s). He knew his PDP-12s inside and out - literally. He was more or less touch typing the switch register (at great speed) on our machine, putting it thru all sorts of tests. He even could base a machine's age on the font used on the front panel. Amazing. > If anyone wants to send me info, I'll volunteer to collect and put it > up on my website (I won't put email addresses or other incriminating > evidence unless you want me to :-)). Well, it is no secret that RCS has three PDP-12s, one of which is a fancy "super" 12, and a LINC-8. Two of the -12s actually belong to members - only the LINC-8 and one PDP-12 are "corporate". I have a LINC-8 as well (which was to be traded - not sure now), but it is fairly gutted. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Jan 15 13:30:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: M100 Keys Sought Message-ID: <200301151933.LAA20132@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > >> > Is that the Samsung M100 phone? >> > Or the Lotus Elan M100? >> > (I doubt that you have the M100 spiral galaxy for sale) > >On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Scarletdown wrote: >> I'll sell you the Large Magellanic Cloud for $50,000, and throw in >> the Small Magellanic Cloud as a bonus. :) > >Sorry. >Much as I'd love to add it to my collection, I'm having MAJOR >problems with storage space - I had to hand over most of my >collection to Sellam, just due to lack adequate space. >(space is NOT expanding) > > Hi EPA might complain. Super nova 1997A has been spewing out a lot of radio active waste. Since this is part of it, shipping may also be an issue. Dwight From joe_web at worldonline.fr Wed Jan 15 13:42:30 2003 From: joe_web at worldonline.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=EBl_Weber?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: NeXT archives/museum? References: <20030115045305.C357442CD9@smtp-relay.omnis.com> Message-ID: <001901c2bccf$23a715c0$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> me too ! joe_web@worldonline.fr thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "r. 'bear' stricklin" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 6:26 AM Subject: Re: NeXT archives/museum? > On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Alan Perry wrote: > > > Is there a NeXT archive or museum anywhere? I have a few documents that > > are historically interesting (one is a receipt for the very last > > magneto-optical cartridges that Canon had in stock) and would like them > > to go to a suitable home, if there is such a place. > > Hey, Alan. I would be delighted to assume guardianship of these docs. Drop > me a line when you get a moment. > > ok > bear From jwillis at arielusa.com Wed Jan 15 13:44:19 2003 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: PDP 11 Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB72B@deathstar.arielnet.com> What type of PDP 11? -----Original Message----- From: Computermuseum Sent: Wed 1/15/2003 11:51 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: Subject: PDP 11 Hi Someone intersted in a PDP 11? I have one for ... name your price... 500 Us$ Michel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens J.C.Wren Verzonden: woensdag 15 januari 2003 19:47 Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org Onderwerp: RE: How many PDP-12's are there now? I live in GA, very near Roswell. What's the info on the '12? --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Robert Krten > Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 00:04 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: How many PDP-12's are there now? > > > > So... > > all this discussion about PDP-12's has got me curious. > > How many of them are there in existence? > > It would certainly be interesting to get a list of machines and at > least city locations -- I'll start the list: > > Ottawa/ON/Canada (mine) > Roswell/GA/USA > > If anyone wants to send me info, I'll volunteer to collect and put it > up on my website (I won't put email addresses or other incriminating > evidence unless you want me to :-)). > > The other interesting thing that this discussion begs is the topic of > (borrowed term) "biomagnification". It's from the > environmental field, > and basically relates to how bigger animals get more than their "fair" > share of poisons because they eat smaller animals which have already > concentrated the poisons in their systems. I've borrowed the > term because > lately what I've been thinking about is the accumulated collections of > people who are no longer interested in collecting -- in this case, > instead of just getting one or two machines at a time, you tend to > get "clusters" of machines -- hence "biomagnification" :-) > > So... any collectors out there getting rid of PDP stuff? :-) > > Cheers, > -RK > > -- > Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 > minicomputers! > Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. > Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at > www.parse.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 5662 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030115/05538a7a/attachment.bin From joe_web at worldonline.fr Wed Jan 15 13:44:55 2003 From: joe_web at worldonline.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=EBl_Weber?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: PDP 11 References: Message-ID: <002b01c2bccf$63295320$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> 50 euros? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Computermuseum" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 7:51 PM Subject: PDP 11 > Hi > > Someone intersted in a PDP 11? > > I have one for ... name your price... 500 Us$ > > > Michel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens J.C.Wren > Verzonden: woensdag 15 januari 2003 19:47 > Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Onderwerp: RE: How many PDP-12's are there now? > > > I live in GA, very near Roswell. What's the info on the '12? > > --John > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > Behalf Of Robert Krten > > Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 00:04 > > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Subject: How many PDP-12's are there now? > > > > > > > > So... > > > > all this discussion about PDP-12's has got me curious. > > > > How many of them are there in existence? > > > > It would certainly be interesting to get a list of machines and at > > least city locations -- I'll start the list: > > > > Ottawa/ON/Canada (mine) > > Roswell/GA/USA > > > > If anyone wants to send me info, I'll volunteer to collect and put it > > up on my website (I won't put email addresses or other incriminating > > evidence unless you want me to :-)). > > > > The other interesting thing that this discussion begs is the topic of > > (borrowed term) "biomagnification". It's from the > > environmental field, > > and basically relates to how bigger animals get more than their "fair" > > share of poisons because they eat smaller animals which have already > > concentrated the poisons in their systems. I've borrowed the > > term because > > lately what I've been thinking about is the accumulated collections of > > people who are no longer interested in collecting -- in this case, > > instead of just getting one or two machines at a time, you tend to > > get "clusters" of machines -- hence "biomagnification" :-) > > > > So... any collectors out there getting rid of PDP stuff? :-) > > > > Cheers, > > -RK > > > > -- > > Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 > > minicomputers! > > Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. > > Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at > > www.parse.com > > From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Wed Jan 15 13:45:46 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: How many PDP-12's are there now? References: <200301150503.AAA08628@parse.com> Message-ID: <3E25BAD0.2040707@Vishay.com> Robert, please see my earlier posting "Guess What Operating System...": you will find a PDP-12 mentioned that is reported alive and well in Frankfurt/Main, Germany. If you want to know more, the person to contact would be Wolfgang Leber (see http://www.decus.de/people/leber/bio.html). Andreas Robert Krten wrote: > So... > > all this discussion about PDP-12's has got me curious. > > How many of them are there in existence? > > It would certainly be interesting to get a list of machines and at > least city locations -- I'll start the list: ... -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From charlesmorris at direcway.com Wed Jan 15 13:47:20 2003 From: charlesmorris at direcway.com (Charles) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L repair In-Reply-To: <20030115180001.28883.53717.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20030115180001.28883.53717.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jan 2003 12:00:01 -0600, you wrote: >If you have an extender card, you should >be able to trace the fault pretty quickly with a logic probe or >an oscilloscope. > >Without an extender card, it's a lot harder. I agree. I have both an extender card and a scope, fortunately, and have been using them extensively! >> This weekend, after quite a bit of signal chasing, I found that I >> had put the variable delay line in the wrong slot some time ago >> while cleaning connectors/mice nests! > >I've done stuff like that. The problem was, since my machine does not come with the parity option installed, there are a few empty slots in the otherwise unbroken string of handles touching each other...I still am annoyed for doing it to myself though ;) Now to fix the core memory. Shouldn't be too hard to find since it's doing nothing. If it had flaky bits or words or pages, different story, but absolutely dead can only be a few things. -Charles From computermuseum at pandora.be Wed Jan 15 13:52:00 2003 From: computermuseum at pandora.be (Computermuseum) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: PDP 11 In-Reply-To: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB72B@deathstar.arielnet.com> Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1208 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030115/d8ba6706/winmail.bin From computermuseum at pandora.be Wed Jan 15 13:52:43 2003 From: computermuseum at pandora.be (Computermuseum) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: PDP 11 In-Reply-To: <002b01c2bccf$63295320$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> Message-ID: To low -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens Jo?l Weber Verzonden: woensdag 15 januari 2003 20:51 Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org Onderwerp: Re: PDP 11 50 euros? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Computermuseum" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 7:51 PM Subject: PDP 11 > Hi > > Someone intersted in a PDP 11? > > I have one for ... name your price... 500 Us$ > > > Michel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens J.C.Wren > Verzonden: woensdag 15 januari 2003 19:47 > Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Onderwerp: RE: How many PDP-12's are there now? > > > I live in GA, very near Roswell. What's the info on the '12? > > --John > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > Behalf Of Robert Krten > > Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 00:04 > > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Subject: How many PDP-12's are there now? > > > > > > > > So... > > > > all this discussion about PDP-12's has got me curious. > > > > How many of them are there in existence? > > > > It would certainly be interesting to get a list of machines and at > > least city locations -- I'll start the list: > > > > Ottawa/ON/Canada (mine) > > Roswell/GA/USA > > > > If anyone wants to send me info, I'll volunteer to collect and put it > > up on my website (I won't put email addresses or other incriminating > > evidence unless you want me to :-)). > > > > The other interesting thing that this discussion begs is the topic of > > (borrowed term) "biomagnification". It's from the > > environmental field, > > and basically relates to how bigger animals get more than their "fair" > > share of poisons because they eat smaller animals which have already > > concentrated the poisons in their systems. I've borrowed the > > term because > > lately what I've been thinking about is the accumulated collections of > > people who are no longer interested in collecting -- in this case, > > instead of just getting one or two machines at a time, you tend to > > get "clusters" of machines -- hence "biomagnification" :-) > > > > So... any collectors out there getting rid of PDP stuff? :-) > > > > Cheers, > > -RK > > > > -- > > Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 > > minicomputers! > > Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. > > Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at > > www.parse.com > > From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 15 13:54:00 2003 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: Octane comes from October (WasRichard Crandall just cancelled a payment to you) Message-ID: Hans, Likely just another case of Germans doing something better (IMHO), much like DIN versus SAE horsepower. I did know about the R+M/2 method for American gas, and you can get 100 octane here, just not easily in my state.. In California, some 76 stations sell 100 octane. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Wed Jan 15 13:57:00 2003 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: Ron Collison (and anyone else): XENIX In-Reply-To: <003601c2bca7$c59c2460$84539384@ca.caldera.com> References: <003601c2bca7$c59c2460$84539384@ca.caldera.com> Message-ID: <63327.213.250.80.46.1042660834.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> m_d said: > > Being a 16 bit 286 port you have to live within the limits of a 64K > segmented architecture - I'm pretty sure the compiler supported > small model (1 x 64k code segment + 1 x 64k data segment) > and middle model (multiple 64k code segments + 1 64k data segment). > It may or may not have supported large model (multiple code and > data segments) but even if it did the support was probably pretty buggy. > > Don't even think about trying to build things like X unless you > are extremely masochistic. I've got Xenix 286 disks + manuals somewhere. I bought it second-hand in ~1992 and got many hours of fun from it. Okay, months of fun. The only thing lacking (back then) was the compiler which was a separate product, at least I didn't have it. Looking back, Minix 1.7 was a definite improvement if you were stuck with 286 machines like I was. I'm writing this in Mozilla; the compilation took ~5 hours on an Alphastation 500/500 (21164 with 8MB cache) with 512MB memory. I still get nostalgic moments when I think about minix and xenix and the time when I knew what every single program in /usr/bin actually was :-) -- jht From mtapley at swri.edu Wed Jan 15 14:02:00 2003 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: Y2K/Y10K for V5.03 of RT-11 Message-ID: >Anyone who likes a different expression other than >"NEWFIX" that is 6 letters or less - please suggest. Y2KFIX or Y10KFX (as appropriate)? That seems more specific. - Mark From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Jan 15 14:11:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L repair Message-ID: <200301152013.MAA20196@clulw009.amd.com> >From: Charles > >On Wed, 15 Jan 2003 12:00:01 -0600, you wrote: > >>If you have an extender card, you should >>be able to trace the fault pretty quickly with a logic probe or >>an oscilloscope. >> >>Without an extender card, it's a lot harder. > >I agree. I have both an extender card and a scope, fortunately, >and have been using them extensively! > >>> This weekend, after quite a bit of signal chasing, I found that I >>> had put the variable delay line in the wrong slot some time ago >>> while cleaning connectors/mice nests! >> >>I've done stuff like that. > >The problem was, since my machine does not come with the parity >option installed, there are a few empty slots in the otherwise >unbroken string of handles touching each other...I still am >annoyed for doing it to myself though ;) > >Now to fix the core memory. > Shouldn't be too hard to find >since it's doing nothing. If it had flaky bits or words or pages, >different story, but absolutely dead can only be a few things. Ya, like a broken core sense wire! For the times I don't have an extension card, I solder some wires to points I expect to measure and tape them to a strip of wood that I lay on top of the machine. It is slow but works OK. It wouldn't work on a real fast machine because of reflections of unterminated lines but these older machines are not all that troublesome with one foot or so of wire. Dwight > >-Charles > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Jan 15 14:25:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: HP 2100 cpu plea Message-ID: <004a01c2bcd4$0a6253e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Ok folks, I'm officially desperate. I can't figure out what is wrong with the 2100 IOP cpu memory section on my 2000/Access system. So, just thought I'd post this to the list....forgive my begging, it isn't pretty *Grin* Anyone have a working HP 2100 cpu available? I will pay real $$$ at this point, or trade probably just about anything I have for one. If anyone has one they will sell, or trade for, or give away to a place (me) that will actually use it and not throw it on a shelf, I would like to know. I'd also welcome any leads as to where one might be stored, etc. Or, as an alternative, if anyone has a magical device that will instantly transfer all of Tony Duell's repair knowledge and ability to my brain, that might work ;) FYI - I need either a 2100A or 2100S cpu. Don't need or want any 21MX or 1000 type cpus. Thanks! --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Jan 15 14:25:41 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay) In-Reply-To: <3E242D18.70001@Vishay.com>; from Andreas.Freiherr@Vishay.com on Tue, Jan 14, 2003 at 16:30:32 CET References: <3E242D18.70001@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <20030115191918.C57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.01.14 16:30 Andreas Freiherr wrote: > Rumor had it that there was a whole bunch of -10s at some Scandinavian > university (Oslo? Stockholm?) in the 1980s. Anybody know what became > of those? I know that a user group at a Swedish university has several big, old iron machines in storage and some of them in operation. E.g. a 10 m wide VAX 11/780, several VAX8000 and VAX6000. Also I saw a DECSYSTEM 20xx... some Sun 4, Norsk Data, ... See: http://www.ludd.luth.se/gallery/ -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Jan 15 14:33:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay) In-Reply-To: <20030115191918.C57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: > > Rumor had it that there was a whole bunch of -10s at some Scandinavian > > university (Oslo? Stockholm?) in the 1980s. Anybody know what became > > of those? > I know that a user group at a Swedish university has several big, old > iron machines in storage and some of them in operation. E.g. a 10 m wide > VAX 11/780, several VAX8000 and VAX6000. Also I saw a DECSYSTEM 20xx... > some Sun 4, Norsk Data, ... See: http://www.ludd.luth.se/gallery/ I am convinced that the rumor of Scandanavian -10s is either simply not true, or blown out of proportion. The group mentioned above does indeed have a DEC-20 of some sort, but no KA10s or KI10s as the rumor states. This rumor has been circulating for years. Unless someone gives me *concrete* evidence, I have to doubt the existence of the mythical -10s. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From bmachacek at pcisys.net Wed Jan 15 14:38:27 2003 From: bmachacek at pcisys.net (Bill Machacek) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: Digital hard drives Message-ID: <141f01c2bcd6$66a926e0$0200000a@xeon> I have two (2) Digital RA-70 hard drives that I acquired from another scrounger several years ago. They look to be in excellent shape, but of course I cannot guarantee that they work. They are both very heavy. If anyone is interested in them, I will be happy to ship them to anyone willing to pay the shipping charges, what ever that may be. And they are heavy..... I would rather see someone use them instead of sending them off the the scrap heap..... Bill Machacek Colo. Springs, CO bmachacek@pcisys.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030115/4ba12e81/attachment.html From menadeau at attbi.com Wed Jan 15 14:56:00 2003 From: menadeau at attbi.com (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: Collectible Microcomputers References: <1042608311.5283@paypal.com> Message-ID: <007401c2bcd8$83081ce0$0c01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> No, he just made an honest mistake. No spam here. --Mike Michael Nadeau Editor/Publisher Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource www.classictechpub.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lawson" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 1:29 AM Subject: Re: Collectible Microcomputers > > > Looks like Richard just bought a book from someone/somewhere and has > munged his Pay-Pal information... or cc:ed The List... > > > Or, this is a hideously mal-formed attempt at Spam... > > > > But I'll take the $30, regardless. > > > Cheers > > John > > From mattis at mattisborgen.org Wed Jan 15 15:05:01 2003 From: mattis at mattisborgen.org (Mattis Lind) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: SV: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi! I know that The computer club Stacken at Royal Institute of Technology in Stockholm used to have a KA10 (KATIA) (TIA = 10) and a KI10, KICKI. Check this web page (in swedish) http://susning.nu/KATIA I have actually seen then myself a number of times. They were massive.. /Mattis -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fran: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]For William Donzelli Skickat: den 15 januari 2003 21:36 Till: cctalk@classiccmp.org Kopia: cctalk@classiccmp.org Amne: Re: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay) > > Rumor had it that there was a whole bunch of -10s at some Scandinavian > > university (Oslo? Stockholm?) in the 1980s. Anybody know what became > > of those? > I know that a user group at a Swedish university has several big, old > iron machines in storage and some of them in operation. E.g. a 10 m wide > VAX 11/780, several VAX8000 and VAX6000. Also I saw a DECSYSTEM 20xx... > some Sun 4, Norsk Data, ... See: http://www.ludd.luth.se/gallery/ I am convinced that the rumor of Scandanavian -10s is either simply not true, or blown out of proportion. The group mentioned above does indeed have a DEC-20 of some sort, but no KA10s or KI10s as the rumor states. This rumor has been circulating for years. Unless someone gives me *concrete* evidence, I have to doubt the existence of the mythical -10s. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jan 15 15:09:00 2003 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: OT: paging MAC expert(s) --- What's a Performa In-Reply-To: from Owen Robertson at "Jan 15, 3 11:54:42 am" Message-ID: <200301152121.NAA26274@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I have a 200Mhz 6400 tower. Pretty nice machine, except that it lacks > ethernet. I've got it running MacOS 8.0, and until recently, I also had BeOS > on it. Runs both really well. Has a built in subwoofer for incredibly rich > sound. My main complaint: Other than adding RAM or PCI cards, upgrades are > nearly impossible with that impenetrable case. Yeah, I'm not wild about that case either. Personally, other than the new Apple cases which have the swing-out motherboard (it was a joy to add cards and RAM to my new dual G4), I liked the case of the 72-73-75-7600 series, since it slid off and opened up with minimal effort. My 7300 is still my main Mac, too (but with a 60GB ATA/133, 512MB RAM, a 16MB Rage 128 card and a G3/500, it's hardly stock anymore ;-). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI! ---------------------------------- From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jan 15 15:27:00 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: Octane comes from October (WasRichard Crandall just cancelled a payment to you) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030115132642.00a20520@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 12:56 PM 1/15/03 -0700, you wrote: >Hans, >Likely just another case of Germans doing something better (IMHO), much >like DIN versus SAE horsepower. I did know about the R+M/2 method for >American gas, and you can get 100 octane here, just not easily in my >state.. In California, some 76 stations sell 100 octane. All the airports do, just don't taxi your car too far into the runway and 90% of the time they fill you up no questions asked. From runtime at wzrd.com Wed Jan 15 15:38:29 2003 From: runtime at wzrd.com (Don Mitchell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: DEC RRD42-AA SCSI CD-ROM Message-ID: Needs a home. Importantly: there is NO caddy, and it's a caddy type drive. I haven't tested it but it was said to be in working order a couple of years ago. It's partially shink-wrapped in some sort of mylar-like material. Very odd. It's got a strange metal bracket that's perhaps for a large enclosure; it's not something I've seen for a CD but it reminds me of the drive brackets in a MicroVAX 3100/20. Mfg date 1992. Anyway, for shipping cost it's yours. Don Mitchell From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 15 15:40:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: PDP 11 In-Reply-To: from "Computermuseum" at Jan 15, 2003 08:53:18 PM Message-ID: <200301152143.h0FLhLB29557@shell1.aracnet.com> Not necessarily. Depending on what the system is, and how it is configured, that might be more than it is worth. BTW, 50 Euroes = $52.75 US. And, yes, I do have a pretty good idea what PDP-11's are worth. Zane > > To low > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens Jo?l Weber > Verzonden: woensdag 15 januari 2003 20:51 > Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Onderwerp: Re: PDP 11 > > > 50 euros? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Computermuseum" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 7:51 PM > Subject: PDP 11 > > > > Hi > > > > Someone intersted in a PDP 11? > > > > I have one for ... name your price... 500 Us$ > > > > > > Michel > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens J.C.Wren > > Verzonden: woensdag 15 januari 2003 19:47 > > Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Onderwerp: RE: How many PDP-12's are there now? > > > > > > I live in GA, very near Roswell. What's the info on the '12? > > > > --John > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > > > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > > Behalf Of Robert Krten > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 00:04 > > > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > Subject: How many PDP-12's are there now? > > > > > > > > > > > > So... > > > > > > all this discussion about PDP-12's has got me curious. > > > > > > How many of them are there in existence? > > > > > > It would certainly be interesting to get a list of machines and at > > > least city locations -- I'll start the list: > > > > > > Ottawa/ON/Canada (mine) > > > Roswell/GA/USA > > > > > > If anyone wants to send me info, I'll volunteer to collect and put it > > > up on my website (I won't put email addresses or other incriminating > > > evidence unless you want me to :-)). > > > > > > The other interesting thing that this discussion begs is the topic of > > > (borrowed term) "biomagnification". It's from the > > > environmental field, > > > and basically relates to how bigger animals get more than their "fair" > > > share of poisons because they eat smaller animals which have already > > > concentrated the poisons in their systems. I've borrowed the > > > term because > > > lately what I've been thinking about is the accumulated collections of > > > people who are no longer interested in collecting -- in this case, > > > instead of just getting one or two machines at a time, you tend to > > > get "clusters" of machines -- hence "biomagnification" :-) > > > > > > So... any collectors out there getting rid of PDP stuff? :-) > > > > > > Cheers, > > > -RK > > > > > > -- > > > Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 > > > minicomputers! > > > Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. > > > Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at > > > www.parse.com > > > > > > From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Jan 15 15:41:01 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: Octane comes from October (WasRichard Crandall just cancelled a payment to you) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030115132642.00a20520@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <00b001c2bcdf$4ea01c80$020010ac@k4jcw> Yea, if you like to pay $2.25 a gallon for 100LL. And that's the cheap stuff, out here. --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Mike Ford > Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 16:28 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Octane comes from October (WasRichard Crandall just > cancelled a payment to you) > > > At 12:56 PM 1/15/03 -0700, you wrote: > >Hans, > >Likely just another case of Germans doing something better > (IMHO), much > >like DIN versus SAE horsepower. I did know about the R+M/2 > method for > >American gas, and you can get 100 octane here, just not easily in my > >state.. In California, some 76 stations sell 100 octane. > > > All the airports do, just don't taxi your car too far into > the runway and > 90% of the time they fill you up no questions asked. > > From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 15 15:41:32 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: Octane comes from October (WasRichard Crandall just cancelled a payment to you) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030115132642.00a20520@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Mike Ford wrote: > All the airports do, just don't taxi your car too far into the runway > and 90% of the time they fill you up no questions asked. Even if you're a scary looking Arab? ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Qstieee at aol.com Wed Jan 15 15:45:20 2003 From: Qstieee at aol.com (Qstieee@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: DEC RRD42-AA SCSI CD-ROM Message-ID: <146.7ef6ee5.2b57312c@aol.com> I'll take that too. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030115/743552d2/attachment.html From computermuseum at pandora.be Wed Jan 15 15:49:00 2003 From: computermuseum at pandora.be (Computermuseum) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: PDP 11 In-Reply-To: <200301152143.h0FLhLB29557@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: tommorow I've got more answers... Michel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens Zane H. Healy Verzonden: woensdag 15 januari 2003 22:43 Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org Onderwerp: Re: PDP 11 Not necessarily. Depending on what the system is, and how it is configured, that might be more than it is worth. BTW, 50 Euroes = $52.75 US. And, yes, I do have a pretty good idea what PDP-11's are worth. Zane > > To low > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens Jo?l Weber > Verzonden: woensdag 15 januari 2003 20:51 > Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Onderwerp: Re: PDP 11 > > > 50 euros? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Computermuseum" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 7:51 PM > Subject: PDP 11 > > > > Hi > > > > Someone intersted in a PDP 11? > > > > I have one for ... name your price... 500 Us$ > > > > > > Michel > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens J.C.Wren > > Verzonden: woensdag 15 januari 2003 19:47 > > Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Onderwerp: RE: How many PDP-12's are there now? > > > > > > I live in GA, very near Roswell. What's the info on the '12? > > > > --John > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > > > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > > Behalf Of Robert Krten > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 00:04 > > > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > Subject: How many PDP-12's are there now? > > > > > > > > > > > > So... > > > > > > all this discussion about PDP-12's has got me curious. > > > > > > How many of them are there in existence? > > > > > > It would certainly be interesting to get a list of machines and at > > > least city locations -- I'll start the list: > > > > > > Ottawa/ON/Canada (mine) > > > Roswell/GA/USA > > > > > > If anyone wants to send me info, I'll volunteer to collect and put it > > > up on my website (I won't put email addresses or other incriminating > > > evidence unless you want me to :-)). > > > > > > The other interesting thing that this discussion begs is the topic of > > > (borrowed term) "biomagnification". It's from the > > > environmental field, > > > and basically relates to how bigger animals get more than their "fair" > > > share of poisons because they eat smaller animals which have already > > > concentrated the poisons in their systems. I've borrowed the > > > term because > > > lately what I've been thinking about is the accumulated collections of > > > people who are no longer interested in collecting -- in this case, > > > instead of just getting one or two machines at a time, you tend to > > > get "clusters" of machines -- hence "biomagnification" :-) > > > > > > So... any collectors out there getting rid of PDP stuff? :-) > > > > > > Cheers, > > > -RK > > > > > > -- > > > Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 > > > minicomputers! > > > Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. > > > Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at > > > www.parse.com > > > > > > From ken at seefried.com Wed Jan 15 15:54:00 2003 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: Subject: How many PDP-12's are there now? In-Reply-To: <20030115210501.32489.41764.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20030115210501.32489.41764.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030115215709.22063.qmail@mail.seefried.com> From: "Robert Krten" > Roswell/GA/USA Whoa! Where is there a PDP-12 in Roswell, GA??? That's right down the road from me and I'd love to see it. Ken Seefried (in Alpharetta, GA) From cb at mythtech.net Wed Jan 15 16:25:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: Semi OT: Apple CD-ROM Driver 5.3.1 Message-ID: >Anyone out there have the Apple CD-ROM Driver 5.3.1 that they might >be willing to email my way? I just recently picked up a Toshiba XM- >520 SCSI CD-ROM drive in hopes of being able to use it with both my >Apple IIGS and my Performa 405. I've been told that the GS (equipped >as it is with a RAMFast SCSI Card) should handle it fine; but since >the Performa is running System 7.5, I need the Apple CD-ROM Driver >5.3.1 from System 7.6 to be able to use non-Apple CD-ROM drives. http://www.macdrivermuseum.com/disk/Apple_CD-ROM_D-5.3.1.sit.hqx and http://www.macdrivermuseum.com/disk/Mac_CD-ROM_Setup_5.3.2.sit for the ISO 9660, audio and High Sierra additions -chris From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Jan 15 16:33:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:28 2005 Subject: UofM WasRe: A Few New Finds Today References: <200301151750.LAA11902@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <020c01c2bce6$865ac1f0$e750ef42@oemcomputer> Did they stop letting you call in for an appointment to buy items? 2001 was the last time I was there. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 11:50 AM Subject: Re: A Few New Finds Today > > Up North (MN) the U of M was a good place to get older items and because there was an article written about me in the paper up there I got lots of calls from people wanting to give me items. > > Not anymore. They stopped allowing people to view and buy items at the > Como recycling center over a year ago. > > -Lawrence LeMay > lemay@cs.umn.edu > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jan 15 16:42:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn Message-ID: <20030115224504.23250.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> > Hmm. I've not got the box any more, mores the pity. sure. I can understand my not getting the box but I'm surprised someone lost the discs / manuals in my case... guess they got left on a shelf somewhere and then dumped. > There were no end of accessories that all used the same box. Various > add-on processors, modem (prestel adapter) etc. hmm. I really must look at what I have again!! >>I'm sure Ferranti produced much better machines than glorified IBM clones >>though, if that's what this is :-) > >They did do an IBM XT clone - we had to use some of them. Big black ugly >box. Cassette based, with an upgrade available to floppy disc. W.H.Smiths >used to sell them to the public..! They were not a success. hmm, this one had a cream-coloured case. The chassis was built to accomodate a couple of single-height floppy drives, side-by side; I believe it had a floppy controller built into one of the main boards. I think it had a couple of seperate PSUs in it too, one providing +5V and the other doing everything else. All this from memory of course - it's buried behind several layers of other junk at the moment :-) cheers Jules __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 15 16:59:00 2003 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: Mac TV Message-ID: Is this something worth buying? Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jan 15 17:05:01 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: Jules Richardson "Re: Update: BBC Acorn" (Jan 15, 10:55) References: <20030115105546.83203.qmail@web21108.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10301152134.ZM8372@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 15, 10:55, Jules Richardson wrote: > > > You lucky devil - I've been looking for a BBC Micro ARM Evaluation Kit for > > years! I saw one at a show ("Last ARM Evaluation Kit In Existence") - that > > just made me want one even more :-) > > :-) > Any idea how many were released into the wild? I certainly had no luck tracking > down any info for mine when I last tried (which was about 8 years ago now, > admittedly) > > They don't seem to have been that common at all... No, they weren't. I worked for Acorn at the time, and even then I only saw one or two. I saw more of the ARM PC cards. But now I know maybe half-a-dozen people who own one. There was one on EBay a while ago. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jan 15 17:08:15 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: Jules Richardson "Re: Update: BBC Acorn" (Jan 15, 10:53) References: <20030115105344.99120.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10301152133.ZM8369@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 15, 10:53, Jules Richardson wrote: > > ARM Evaluation Kit - yep - that's the one. I do have various discs and > > manuals for it, too. I used to love the "twin" editor - several open files > > at one, and could cut and paste between them. Ahead of it's time... > > yeah, that's it. Without any discs or being able to find anyone who knew > anything about it I'm afraid mine got put in storage. I believe I've got the > original polystyrene packaging for it, but no discs or outer box or anything > (go figure) I can copy the six disks for you, but as I mentioned in previous post, my Disc 1 has a corrupt track. > I've got some other BBC add-on in the same style housing as the ARM unit, but > can't remember what it is now. It wasn't the teletext unit unfortunately, as > that could have been interesting to play about with. Most of the Acorn add-ons came in the same housing. All the Second Processors (6502, Z80, 32016) and the Universal Second Processor box (so you could use Master Series upgrades like a Turbo, Master 512 80186 CoPro, or the Scientific), Teletext Adaptor, Prestel Adaptor, IEEE Interface, and probably others. > > They were expensive, but much more expandable than the spectrum. At one > > point I had about six of them in my bedroom on an econet network, had > > several on modems running a multi-user BBS. > > excellent :-) > I never got into the networking side of things with them (I've got all the > fileserver/network for the RM Link machines which I believe were the schools > alternative to having BBCs in the UK) I had a three-station Econet in the house in 1984 or 1985, and it eventually grew to include a Master 128, a Compact, and a Filestore. > I seem to remember this machine is way more complex than the innards of an XT > though, with about 1.5x the board space and a lot of ULA chips on board. > > I'm sure Ferranti produced much better machines than glorified IBM clones > though, if that's what this is :-) :-) In my earlier reply, I was thinking of rather older Ferranti computers. At least a decade older, maybe two... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From allain at panix.com Wed Jan 15 17:12:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: Video to DVD/VCD? (was: Prelinger & Computer Chronicles Archives References: Message-ID: <002f01c2bceb$74a98b80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I occasionally show my students the Kildall eulogy,... > Is there anybody here who can do a transfer from VHS? Yes. I'm not a high volume operation, but I have HW/SW for making _VCD's_, and have done so. John A. From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Jan 15 17:25:01 2003 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: Semi OT: Apple CD-ROM Driver 5.3.1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <12950B20-28E1-11D7-98A7-000502512D39@calico.litterbox.com> Have you tried Apple's FTP site for this? Unfortunately I don't think I have my copy anymore. On Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 03:28 PM, chris wrote: >> Anyone out there have the Apple CD-ROM Driver 5.3.1 that they might >> be willing to email my way? I just recently picked up a Toshiba XM- >> 520 SCSI CD-ROM drive in hopes of being able to use it with both my >> Apple IIGS and my Performa 405. I've been told that the GS (equipped >> as it is with a RAMFast SCSI Card) should handle it fine; but since >> the Performa is running System 7.5, I need the Apple CD-ROM Driver >> 5.3.1 from System 7.6 to be able to use non-Apple CD-ROM drives. > > http://www.macdrivermuseum.com/disk/Apple_CD-ROM_D-5.3.1.sit.hqx > > and > > http://www.macdrivermuseum.com/disk/Mac_CD-ROM_Setup_5.3.2.sit > > for the ISO 9660, audio and High Sierra additions > > -chris > > From cb at mythtech.net Wed Jan 15 17:35:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: Mac TV Message-ID: >Is this something worth buying? If you are a Mac collector, sure, since its a cool little peice of Apple history... if you want it as an investment, not unless you get it nearly free. The prices for them have been steadily falling on eBay, so it is unlikely that you will be able to purchase one and be able to resell it at a high enough price to make it worth your time and effort. But, if you happen to come across them in an auction or scrap yard or otherwise, and can snag one for $10 like John did... then grab it. I think there are a few people on this list alone that might be willing to give you $25 to $50 for one, and you can probably get closer to $100 on eBay still. If it is totally complete, manuals, software, remote, everything, and is in good cosmetic condition, and everything works properly, then you might just might be able to snag upwards of $250 on eBay. Just remember, this is eBay... that means one will sell today for $250 and tomorrow for $35. Outside of eBay, I have not noticed Mac collectors willing to pay more than $100 for a complete, working system. The MacTV is not a terribly rare item (I think Apple sold something in the range of 10,000 units... and there is usually at least one on eBay in a given month) -chris From alanp at snowmoose.com Wed Jan 15 18:13:31 2003 From: alanp at snowmoose.com (Alan Perry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: Fw: NeXT archives/museum? Message-ID: <20030116001606.6EFF342E8B@smtp-relay.omnis.com> I actually got a bunch of offers to take the documents (uh, now I have to remember which box they are in :-( Thanks a bunch. Oh, and I guess I need to figure out which offer that I am actually going to take ... alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Perry" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 10:53 PM Subject: NeXT archives/museum? > > Is there a NeXT archive or museum anywhere? I have a few documents that > are historically interesting (one is a receipt for the very last > magneto-optical cartridges that Canon had in stock) and would like them > to go to a suitable home, if there is such a place. > > alan > > > From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Jan 15 18:17:18 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, William Donzelli wrote: > I am convinced that the rumor of Scandanavian -10s is either simply not > true, or blown out of proportion. The group mentioned above does indeed > have a DEC-20 of some sort, but no KA10s or KI10s as the rumor states. > > This rumor has been circulating for years. Unless someone gives me > *concrete* evidence, I have to doubt the existence of the mythical -10s. Well, it's only a DECSYSTEM-2065, but it's in Norway. http://mail-index.netbsd.org/port-vax/1998/09/15/0001.html -brian. From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Jan 15 18:21:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: Mac TV References: Message-ID: <02c601c2bcf5$29295820$e750ef42@oemcomputer> Good answers and I would agree with your prices. ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris" To: "Classic Computer" Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 5:38 PM Subject: Re: Mac TV > >Is this something worth buying? > > If you are a Mac collector, sure, since its a cool little peice of Apple > history... if you want it as an investment, not unless you get it nearly > free. The prices for them have been steadily falling on eBay, so it is > unlikely that you will be able to purchase one and be able to resell it > at a high enough price to make it worth your time and effort. > > But, if you happen to come across them in an auction or scrap yard or > otherwise, and can snag one for $10 like John did... then grab it. I > think there are a few people on this list alone that might be willing to > give you $25 to $50 for one, and you can probably get closer to $100 on > eBay still. If it is totally complete, manuals, software, remote, > everything, and is in good cosmetic condition, and everything works > properly, then you might just might be able to snag upwards of $250 on > eBay. Just remember, this is eBay... that means one will sell today for > $250 and tomorrow for $35. > > Outside of eBay, I have not noticed Mac collectors willing to pay more > than $100 for a complete, working system. The MacTV is not a terribly > rare item (I think Apple sold something in the range of 10,000 units... > and there is usually at least one on eBay in a given month) > > -chris > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 15 18:24:22 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: HP 2100 cpu plea In-Reply-To: <004a01c2bcd4$0a6253e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> from "Jay West" at Jan 15, 3 02:24:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1118 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030115/7e8ea04a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 15 18:27:36 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: Progress (PDP-8/L repair) In-Reply-To: <20030115010003.48224.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jan 14, 3 05:00:03 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2305 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030115/24484845/attachment.ksh From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Jan 15 18:30:53 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: SV: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Mattis Lind wrote: > I know that The computer club Stacken at Royal Institute of Technology in > Stockholm used to have a KA10 > (KATIA) (TIA = 10) and a KI10, KICKI. > > Check this web page (in swedish) http://susning.nu/KATIA > > I have actually seen then myself a number of times. They were massive.. Here's a pic: http://www.stacken.kth.se/~thn/FullScale/f3-2.jpg -brian. From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Jan 15 18:34:11 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: M100 Keys Sought In-Reply-To: <3830-54552@sneakemail.com> References: <3830-54552@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <2990.4.20.168.156.1042676400.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> >> Should I bet on the galaxy? > > No keys. Are you certain? It has on occasion taken me 15 minutes to find keys just around my house. I'd expect that verifying that the M100 galaxy has no keys would take one heck of a long time. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Jan 15 18:41:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jan 2003 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Brian Chase wrote: > > > I am convinced that the rumor of Scandanavian -10s is either simply not > > > true, or blown out of proportion. The group mentioned above does indeed > > > have a DEC-20 of some sort, but no KA10s or KI10s as the rumor states. > > > > > > This rumor has been circulating for years. Unless someone gives me > > > *concrete* evidence, I have to doubt the existence of the mythical -10s. > > > > Well, it's only a DECSYSTEM-2065, but it's in Norway. > > http://mail-index.netbsd.org/port-vax/1998/09/15/0001.html > > Only a DECSYSTEM-2065!? > > Only! :-) Oh yeah, and I'd missed some of the pictures of the Stacken systems in Sweden: http://www.stacken.kth.se/~thn/FullScale/f3-1.jpg http://www.stacken.kth.se/~thn/FullScale/f3-2.jpg http://www.stacken.kth.se/~thn/FullScale/f3-3.jpg (mailed earlier) I don't know, given the two separate systems shown there, and the DECSYSTEM-2065 in Norway, it seems to me like there might be some substance to these Scandanavian PDP-10 rumors. I hear hydroelectric power is relatively inexpensive; Norway and Sweden (maybe Finland too?) have certain advantages when running large systems in regard to the power being fairly cheap. At least that's what I've been told by people I know from Sweden and Norway. -brian. From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Jan 15 18:44:21 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: A couple of Good Finds Today Message-ID: <02f201c2bcf8$697323e0$e750ef42@oemcomputer> At Goodwill I got a book titled BIT BY BIT An Illustrated History of Computers by Stan Augarten for 25 cents and it has lots of great pictures and stories in it. At another thrift I got a TI-99/4 with power supply and nothing else ( It's the 99/4 not the later 99/4A). It's in pretty good shape with a few dents. Looked for the Doc's for it but only found TI-99/4A books. From acme at ao.net Wed Jan 15 18:48:01 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: Osborne OCC1 Message-ID: <200301160050.TAA06677@eola.ao.net> Thanks for sending 'em Bob, but I already have the Tech Manual here. Also, my home-brew email client throws out attachments (and html code ;>) Glen 0/0 From: Feldman, Robert To: Glen Goodwin Subject: RE: Re: Osborne OCC1 Date: 01/13/2003 2:09 PM > Attached is a ZIP file with two JPEG images that are scans of pages from the > Osborne 1 Technical Manual that relate to the PS and wiring. They might be > useful to you. > > Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: acme@ao.net [mailto:acme@ao.net] > Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 4:03 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Re: Osborne OCC1 > > > From: Joe > To: Glen Goodwin > Subject: Re: Osborne OCC1 > Date: 01/08/2003 7:55 AM > > > I recently had an OCC-1 that blew something in the PSU. That odd thing > was > > at it kept working! I wasn't really intersted in it so I gave it to Glen > Good > > . I expect that he'll troubleshoot/repai > > r it soon. > > Okay, Joe, I get the hint ;>) I'll take a look at it this weekend -- should > be > a quick and easy fix. > > Later -- > > Glen > 0/0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------_=_NextPart_000_01C2BB23.FD2CA5E6 From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Jan 15 19:08:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: SV: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4142.4.20.168.156.1042679503.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Here's a pic: http://www.stacken.kth.se/~thn/FullScale/f3-2.jpg The frontmost six cabinets of the main row of tall cabinets are two KI10 CPUs. The remaining cabinets in that line are probably core memory and peripheral controllers. No KA10 in evidence. Does anyone know whether they still actually have these machines? From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Jan 15 19:29:01 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: Ron Collison (and anyone else): XENIX References: <003601c2bca7$c59c2460$84539384@ca.caldera.com> <63327.213.250.80.46.1042660834.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Message-ID: <3E260AFE.9000706@jetnet.ab.ca> Jarkko Teppo wrote: > I've got Xenix 286 disks + manuals somewhere. I bought it second-hand > in ~1992 and got many hours of fun from it. Okay, months of fun. > > The only thing lacking (back then) was the compiler which was a > separate product, at least I didn't have it. Looking back, > Minix 1.7 was a definite improvement if you were stuck with > 286 machines like I was. While 86 sucked for programs more than 64k code and data, remember for the longest time UNIX was developed on such small systems. > I'm writing this in Mozilla; the compilation took ~5 hours on an > Alphastation 500/500 (21164 with 8MB cache) with 512MB memory. > I still get nostalgic moments when I think about minix and xenix and > the time when I knew what every single program in /usr/bin actually was :-) Or try and find where stuff like doc's are put now days. Open source is good but the Doc's need to be improved. Ben. From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jan 15 19:38:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: Technique for scanning in documentation In-Reply-To: <000101c2bc8a$f0e84da0$cb87fe3e@athlon> References: <000101c2bc8a$f0e84da0$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: <312862225.20030115194135@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, January 15, 2003, Antonio Carlini wrote: > Acrobat 4 can import up to 50 files at once. So if you have scanned to 50 > individual TIFFs you can import them all in one go (it's not that speedy > though!). When converting from multi-page TIFF to PDF, I typically use IrfanView, a free and good Windows image viewer, and I print to the Acrobat 5 Distiller printer. The Acrobat import feature is convenient, but I can't find any definite way to view (or configure) the parameters it uses when processing images. What DPI does it use for such-and-such class of images? What kinds of compression does it use? I feel much more comfortable with Distiller and its configurability -- I know what is going into my PDFs. IrfanView is also neat because of its very fast rendering and printing the TIFFs. -- Jeffrey Sharp From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 15 19:47:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: IBM 5322 Message-ID: I have an IBM 5322. I can't find any useful information on the web. It looks very much like a System/23 Datamaster. Is it one and the same? Next question: When I boot it up it comes up with a display as follows: 07 08 09 0A 0B 0C 0D 0E 0F 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 1A -- -- -- 1B 1C 1D 1E 1F 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 2A 2B 2C 2D 2E -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 2F 30 31 32 33 34[35]36 37 38 39 FD -- -- 4A The hyphens underneath numbers indicate that those numbers are underlined, and the square brackets indicate that that number is inversed video. Does anyone know what this means? Last question: I press the RESET button and it clears the screen and goes into what looks to be a prompt mode. It had "PROC START" on the bottom, so I entered this as a command. Now a status line on the bottom has "OPTION 10" with the "10" blinking and I can't figure out what to do. Does anyone know what is going on? How do I boot from the floppy drive? Anyone got an OS disk? A manual? Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 15 19:50:22 2003 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: Mac TV Message-ID: So I should offer the guy something like 10 bucks for it and then offer it to the list for like 30 or, that way I can make some money to send to VISA and someone who loves Macs will be happy and it won't get junked, in other words. Please don't flame me for wanting to profit, but I'm seriously broke and need to pay Chris Kennedy/Visa/my parents/go to college/get gas/fix my power steering/pay J. Darren Petersen/etc. I think a $20 profit is fair, as I already spent time finding it, gas getting there, and would spend money obtaining it as well. Thoughts? Will J _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8 is here: Try it free* for 2 months http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 15 19:54:00 2003 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay) Message-ID: This thread is a good indication of why we need some sort of register of machines, by serial number, including "mutt" machines made from bits of others. Most classic cars have registrys devoted to them, so why not classic computers? A PDP-8/I one would be interesting, for example. Plus, if the members were willing to provide their e-mail addresses, it would centralize the knowledge of who has, say, extra boards or manuals... Just a thought... Will J _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8 is here: Try it free* for 2 months http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Jan 15 19:58:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: IBM 5322 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4920.4.20.168.156.1042682284.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I have an IBM 5322. I can't find any useful information on the web. It > looks very much like a System/23 Datamaster. Is it one and the same? Doubtful. The type number suggests that it's probably a small System/32 machine, since System/34, /36, and /38 machines had type numbers 534x, 536x, and 538x. From cmurray at eagle.ca Wed Jan 15 20:20:00 2003 From: cmurray at eagle.ca (C. Murray McCullough) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: hackers Guide to the Apple II Message-ID: <3E261782.693A0432@eagle.ca> Hi Tony(Duell), Yes indeed the term 'hacker' was used in the original form as it was created back by MIT students in the 60s. It was an honorable title. Murray-- From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jan 15 20:38:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? Message-ID: <1916458036.20030115204131@subatomix.com> In my quest to cover every aspect, to think about every permutation of what ClassicCmp *could* be in the future, I have yet another question to ask ClassicCmp subscribers: What if ClassicCmp were a weblog, in the style of Slashdot or Kuro5hin? I know many of you hold /. in disdain for whatever reason. I am not talking about emulating the /. culture; I'm speaking only of its infrastructure, purely in terms of being a web app for thread-based discussion. The basics, as they apply to ClassicCmp, are: - Posting and reading of messages would be doable from a web browser. An email interface could be developed, but it wouldn't be the primary method of participation. - You would have an account with a username and password. - Your account would be used for other features on the site, such as access to a data archives, using to a buy-and-sell arena, or moderating others' posts. Right away, I see several benefits: - Members can participate from any computer with a web browser. Even lynx. - Anonymity and privacy can be more well-respected. The 'sender' of a post is your username, not your email address. A system can be implemented where another member can discover your email address only after you give them permission to do so. - Moderation could be less the subjective task that it is now, and more of a distributed, many-eyes process. Imagine if you could vote on a post's on-topicness on a scale of 1 to 5 (1=off-topic, 5=on-topic). Imagine if you could set a minimum viewing level to screen out posts that were too far into the OT side of the spectrum. - There's no worry about HTML, attachments, wierd character sets, spam, virii, or cctech moderation delay. - Your inbox receives less clutter. You spend less bandwidth on mail. - With thread titles on the front page, casual web visitors will be more tempted to subscribe. - It scales well as more members join and start posting. - The forum *is* the archive. - Features you want can be added in code, quickly. The current setup is great for turn-key mailing lists and such, but it is tough to extend. The bad points I see are: - It's a huge change from the status quo. We may lose some members. - Some people may find mailing lists more comfortable. Of course, an email interface to the weblog could be developed. My opinion: It's a good idea that I can implement in just a few months. What is your opinion? Let's answer this one in-list, please. -- Jeffrey Sharp From thompson at new.rr.com Wed Jan 15 20:43:00 2003 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: Selling an old IBM AS400/9404 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Will Jennings wrote: > For what its worth, I know how to hack the QSEFCOR password... And I have 3 > different MULIC tapes, too.. I'm working on getting more, to provide an How do you tell a MULIC tape? Is there anything special printed on it? (like MULIC?) I have a number of tapes from a CISC 9404 or 9402 which claim to be OS/400 V2 as well as other tapes the purpose of is unclear. How would I know if they are of any importance? None of them specifically says MULIC. > archive for other 400-heads like myself.. I own like 7 of the things if you > count the couple machines that exist in board state only. -- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jan 15 20:47:01 2003 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: <1916458036.20030115204131@subatomix.com> from Jeffrey Sharp at "Jan 15, 3 08:41:31 pm" Message-ID: <200301160257.SAA28600@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > - Posting and reading of messages would be doable from a web browser. An > email interface could be developed, but it wouldn't be the primary > method of participation. That immediately makes it undesirable from my perspective. I hate having to log into web sites to post when I could have just sent E-mail (likewise, I hate having to log in to read posts when they could be mailed to me). If both can be supported, fine, but I strongly prefer E-mail. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Magic Eight Ball vs. Microsoft: "Outlook not so good" ---------------------- From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Wed Jan 15 20:50:19 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: Y2K/Y10K for V5.03 of RT-11 References: Message-ID: <3E261DFB.FE10B600@compsys.to> >Mark Tapley wrote: > >Anyone who likes a different expression other than > >"NEWFIX" that is 6 letters or less - please suggest. > Y2KFIX or Y10KFX (as appropriate)? That seems more specific. Jerome Fine replies: Thank you for the comment. I notice that you are the only one to respond publicly. I presume that everyone else is either shy or not interested in RT-11. Sorry for the misunderstanding. The commands SET DATE [NO]Y2K SET DATE [NO]Y10K would be responsible for that aspect. I wanted to use the SET NEWFIX [OFF,ON,ALL] to control the use of all the the bug fixes and enhancements. This command could control the use of all of the changes made to programs with just one command. It might even be worthwhile to set aside a full word with 16 bits to control any specific Utility as well. So SET UTIL DIR=[OFF,ON] might control the bugs and enhancements made to DIR. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Jan 15 20:54:01 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: Octane comes from October (WasRichard Crandall just cancelled a payment to you) In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030115132642.00a20520@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <3E25C9E9.14025.11355BC@localhost> Arabs are scary ? Only in America, or in contesting for an extremely rare computer. On the other hand should Hungarian Paprika become the source for mind-boggling mileage. would the Hungarians become the new boogeymen ? One could also envision a scenario where chinese silkworms had some inner energy that all the world wanted. Hollywood could reissue all it's Fu-Man-Chu series and the US state department could investigate the insidious secret workings of Charlie Chan, who was of course, inscrutable, hence doubly dangerous. Lawrence On 15 Jan 2003, , Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Mike Ford wrote: > > > All the airports do, just don't taxi your car too far into > > the runway and 90% of the time they fill you up no > > questions asked. > > Even if you're a scary looking Arab? ;) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * > lgwalker@ mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Jan 15 20:57:15 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: Octane comes from October (WasRichard Crandall just cancelled a payment to you) In-Reply-To: <3E25A930.12735.634D81A3@localhost> References: Message-ID: <3E25C9E9.17739.113560C@localhost> On the other hand this is a dying technology and new fuel sources are popping up every day. Good riddance I say. There is a plant that is producing ethanol not far from where I live that uses straw for its fuel source and getting funding from a normally conservative provincial government. Of course the political front-men for the car manufacturers, and "Big Oil", will try and quash any attempts to develop alternative non-poluting energy sources but their demise is as sure as Jaquard looms or Stanley Steamers. Lawrence On 15 Jan 2003, , Hans Franke wrote: > > Damn, > > You can't hardly find higher than 93.5 or so here in > > Colorado... < jealous of those who can get 100 octane at > > the pump. Sure, my car needs only 87, but if I could get > > higher octane gas I could drive a car with higher > > compression ;p > > Well, before compareing Octane numbers we have to define > what measurement we use. At German stations usualy the ROZ > is given. > > ROZ stands for Research Oktane Zahl. The English/German > mixup is a historical thing. As far as I know, the whole > octane calculation was made up by some German scientists who > did develop the measurements. The result was a calculation > where the given fuel is compared to a mixture of n-Heptan or > Trimethylpentan (OZ=0) and Isooktan (OZ=100). Since fuel > mixtures can be better than Isooktan, numbers higher than > 100 are possible. The measurement is done with a defined > standard engine runing at a specific speed, a fixed advance > angle and an air intake at 50 C. > > Anothor number is the so called MOZ (Motor Oktan Zahl), > where the test series runns at a higher speed and an intake > temperature of I think 150 C, which is closer to a real > situation. For modern fuels this number is usualy 8-10 lower > then the ROZ. For example: > MOZ ROZ > Regular 83 91 > Super 85 95 > Super Plus 88 98 > > US station _in_most_states_ give the POZ (Pump Oktan > Zahl) which is the average between MOZ and ROZ, so if > we take the above examples, A German 91 ROZ (lowest > quality available) would be sold as 87 in the US. These > numbers are just as rough rule of thumb usable. > > Beside ROZ, MOZ and POZ there's also: > > SOZ, Strassen (Street) Oktan Zahl, where the tests are > done with more real profile. One interesting fact is > thet the SOZ calculations give backing to both, MOZ > and ROZ. It looks like the ROZ value gives a good number for > performance during acceleration (for acceleration profiles > SOZ and ROZ are similar), while MOZ seams to sow the high > load reaction of a given fuel. > > Last there is also the FOZ, Fron Oktan Zahl, where the > fuel will be distilled, and only the parts with a > boiling point above 100 C are used for the OZ calculation. > The idea is to look closer at the volatile parts within the > mix. > > Now, all these numbers are taken from my memory. There > may be some twists by now. > > Gruss > H. > > -- > VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen > http://www.vcfe.org/ lgwalker@ mts.net From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jan 15 21:00:29 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: Prelinger & Computer Chronicles Archives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1677184420.20030115205337@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, January 15, 2003, whdawson wrote: > Gary Kildall Special : > http://www.archive.org/movies/movies-details-db.php?collection=computerchronicles&collectionid=1814&from=BA "He developed the first operating system (CP/M)." I sincerely hope that the web page author meant this sentence to be taken completely in the context of the previous one. :( -- Jeffrey Sharp From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Jan 15 21:04:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: Selling an old IBM AS400/9404 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3866.4.20.168.156.1042686128.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > How do you tell a MULIC tape? Is there anything special printed on it? > (like MULIC?) Probably. > I have a number of tapes from a CISC 9404 or 9402 which claim to be > OS/400 V2 as well as other tapes the purpose of is unclear. If the tape says it's OS/400, then it's not MULIC. From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 15 21:19:04 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: from "Jeffrey Sharp" at Jan 15, 2003 08:41:31 PM Message-ID: <200301160309.h0G39dG12297@shell1.aracnet.com> > What is your opinion? Let's answer this one in-list, please. H*** NO!!!! Simple filtering of email messages takes care of 'inbox clutter', etc. Email is a fast, sleek and lowbandwidth medium. Web-boards, on the otherhand are cumbersome and time consuming. With email I can read CLASSICCMP on anything, with a Web-board, I'd be limited to a modern computer. If this were to happen, I can guarentee a lot of people would leave. Zane From vance at neurotica.com Wed Jan 15 21:29:25 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: How many PDP-12's are there now? In-Reply-To: <200301150503.AAA08628@parse.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Robert Krten wrote: > Ottawa/ON/Canada (mine) > Roswell/GA/USA Albany/NY/USA (mine, currently non-functional) Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Wed Jan 15 21:32:55 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: PDP 11 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: What model? Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Computermuseum wrote: > Hi > > Someone intersted in a PDP 11? > > I have one for ... name your price... 500 Us$ > > > Michel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens J.C.Wren > Verzonden: woensdag 15 januari 2003 19:47 > Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Onderwerp: RE: How many PDP-12's are there now? > > > I live in GA, very near Roswell. What's the info on the '12? > > --John > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > Behalf Of Robert Krten > > Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 00:04 > > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Subject: How many PDP-12's are there now? > > > > > > > > So... > > > > all this discussion about PDP-12's has got me curious. > > > > How many of them are there in existence? > > > > It would certainly be interesting to get a list of machines and at > > least city locations -- I'll start the list: > > > > Ottawa/ON/Canada (mine) > > Roswell/GA/USA > > > > If anyone wants to send me info, I'll volunteer to collect and put it > > up on my website (I won't put email addresses or other incriminating > > evidence unless you want me to :-)). > > > > The other interesting thing that this discussion begs is the topic of > > (borrowed term) "biomagnification". It's from the > > environmental field, > > and basically relates to how bigger animals get more than their "fair" > > share of poisons because they eat smaller animals which have already > > concentrated the poisons in their systems. I've borrowed the > > term because > > lately what I've been thinking about is the accumulated collections of > > people who are no longer interested in collecting -- in this case, > > instead of just getting one or two machines at a time, you tend to > > get "clusters" of machines -- hence "biomagnification" :-) > > > > So... any collectors out there getting rid of PDP stuff? :-) > > > > Cheers, > > -RK > > > > -- > > Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 > > minicomputers! > > Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. > > Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at > > www.parse.com > > From root at parse.com Wed Jan 15 21:37:03 2003 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: How many PDP-12's are there now? In-Reply-To: <3E25BAD0.2040707@Vishay.com> from "Andreas Freiherr" at Jan 15, 2003 08:47:28 PM Message-ID: <200301152018.PAA32666@parse.com> Andreas Freiherr sez... > > Robert, > > please see my earlier posting "Guess What Operating System...": you will > find a PDP-12 mentioned that is reported alive and well in > Frankfurt/Main, Germany. If you want to know more, the person to contact > would be Wolfgang Leber (see http://www.decus.de/people/leber/bio.html). Thanks! Check out the beginnings of the pages at: http://www.parse.com/~pdp12/location.html :-) Cheers, -RK -- Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com From rob at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Wed Jan 15 21:40:31 2003 From: rob at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030114113152.02c825a0@pop.freeserve.net> References: <20030115105546.83203.qmail@web21108.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030114210858.029f14d0@pop.freeserve.net> At 11:39 14/01/2003 +0000, I. myself wrote: >At 10:55 15/01/2003 +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: > >> >>:-) >>Any idea how many were released into the wild? I certainly had no luck >>tracking >>down any info for mine when I last tried (which was about 8 years ago now, >>admittedly) >> >>They don't seem to have been that common at all... >I think mine was one of the last - it was a competition prize donated by >Acorn. I'll check the serial number when I get home. OK, found the box. It's serial Number 1000038. It was donated by Acorn to a BBC Children In Need auction, run by Micronet 800, whom I worked for at the time. (I couldn't participate, but ended up buying it off the winner sometime later.) If it was indeed one of the last, then there may have been less than 40 made! I'm surprised that so many seem to be still kicking about. I've got three discs, several manuals, plus a photocopy of the utilities manual (swi calls) that Acorn kindly supplied afterwards. (and our exchange of letters.) Rob. From vance at neurotica.com Wed Jan 15 21:43:57 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Brian Chase wrote: > > I am convinced that the rumor of Scandanavian -10s is either simply not > > true, or blown out of proportion. The group mentioned above does indeed > > have a DEC-20 of some sort, but no KA10s or KI10s as the rumor states. > > > > This rumor has been circulating for years. Unless someone gives me > > *concrete* evidence, I have to doubt the existence of the mythical -10s. > > Well, it's only a DECSYSTEM-2065, but it's in Norway. > http://mail-index.netbsd.org/port-vax/1998/09/15/0001.html Only a DECSYSTEM-2065!? Only! Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Wed Jan 15 21:47:14 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: SV: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have *got* to get me one of *those*!! Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Brian Chase wrote: > On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Mattis Lind wrote: > > > I know that The computer club Stacken at Royal Institute of Technology in > > Stockholm used to have a KA10 > > (KATIA) (TIA = 10) and a KI10, KICKI. > > > > Check this web page (in swedish) http://susning.nu/KATIA > > > > I have actually seen then myself a number of times. They were massive.. > > Here's a pic: http://www.stacken.kth.se/~thn/FullScale/f3-2.jpg > > -brian. > From cb at mythtech.net Wed Jan 15 21:50:38 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: Prelinger & Computer Chronicles Archives Message-ID: >"He developed the first operating system (CP/M)." > >I sincerely hope that the web page author meant this sentence to be taken >completely in the context of the previous one. :( Maybe the web designer knows the same guy I do... who just the other day described the RAM chips in a 486 he wanted me to look at as "antique memory". When I looked inside the computer, he was refering to 72 pin SIMMs!!!! -chris From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jan 15 21:54:22 2003 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: <1916458036.20030115204131@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <0AA85061-2906-11D7-B3F1-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 09:41 PM, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > In my quest to cover every aspect, to think about every permutation of > what > ClassicCmp *could* be in the future, I have yet another question to ask > ClassicCmp subscribers: What if ClassicCmp were a weblog, in the style > of > Slashdot or Kuro5hin? I think it would kill it in, oh, maybe 2-3 days. There's a reason why what's left of the Philips "MCU" mailing list is now run from my mail server...they changed it into a web-based deal and everyone left. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Jan 15 21:58:25 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: Too many EPROMs Message-ID: Well, I have too many of the things, pulled off boards for years and years. 2716s thru 27512s, regular and CMOS. Does anybody need any of these CHEAP? I must have several hundred untested pulls. Let me know what you are looking for. What's a good price? How about .25 a pop, or six for a buck, plus shipping. Any interest? I do have some oddballs and older types (1702s, 2708s) too - please ask. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Jan 15 22:01:43 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: A Few New Finds Today References: Message-ID: <039b01c2bd0f$b02d40b0$e750ef42@oemcomputer> I will try and get a list of what cards are in the box and then we can talk about price. Most will be $2 to $5 with the digitals going for about $15. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "cctech" Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 2:17 AM Subject: Re:A Few New Finds Today > I'm interes at the video cards, are they too for 1$? > bye > > ---------- Initial Header ----------- > > >From : cctech-admin@classiccmp.org > To : "cctalk@classiccmp" > Cc : > Date : Tue, 14 Jan 2003 19:39:03 -0600 > Subject : A Few New Finds Today > > > At auction I picked up the following: > > 1. Black Macintosh TV no mouse, KB, or remote with it. Will test it on > > Wednesday. > > 2. Box of 82+ video cards. > > 3. Box of New capacitors (100's). > > 4. Many more items but too new to list in detail. > > > > At thrifts: > > 1. TI external disk controller model PHP1800C > > 2. 3-CompacTape TK50 cartridges from digital. The labels on them read: Vax > > RDB/VMS 4.1A STAND TK; RDB 5.1A STANDARD TK50; and Vax RDB/VMS 4.1A MULTI > > TK5. Each was $1 > > > > > ------------- > SPECIAL ADSL > L'ADSL ? partir de 15,95 EUR/mois et le modem ADSL offert ? C'est en exclusivit? chez Tiscali ! > Pour profiter de cette offre, cliquez ici: http://register.tiscali.fr/adsl/ > Offre soumise ? conditions. > > > From thompson at new.rr.com Wed Jan 15 22:05:04 2003 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: <200301160309.h0G39dG12297@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: The blog format seems more suited to individual monologues with replies rather than real discussion. Perhaps you are thinking something more like the yahoo-style message list which essentially threads an email discussion on a web front end. On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Email is a fast, sleek and lowbandwidth medium. Web-boards, on the > otherhand are cumbersome and time consuming. With email I can read > CLASSICCMP on anything, with a Web-board, I'd be limited to a modern > computer. If this were to happen, I can guarentee a lot of people would > leave. -- From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Jan 15 22:08:18 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Only a DECSYSTEM-2065!? Yes, only. Junk compared to DECsystem-1090... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 15 22:12:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: Victor 9000 display and Commodore stuff Message-ID: This guy has stuff. Contact him if interested. Reply-to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 22:45:47 -0500 From: Bill Tingle To: vcf@vintage.org Subject: victor 9000 I have acquired a monitor labeled "Victor 9000". It is model 601, Serial C0061752. I found no reference to it on the Vintage Fextival website. Thus, I speculate that it may be rather rare. It looks to be unused so I assume it works. Can you tell me what interest the Festival (or others) might have in it. I live in Pennsylvania. I thank you in advance for your efforts in this matter and will appreciate either a reply or a forwarding of my letter to someone who might have an interest in the item. I also have some Commodore 64's and 128"s with modems, drives, and other accessories. I assume there is no interest in them. Please reply to tingle@nb.net . -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jplist at kiwigeek.com Wed Jan 15 22:15:18 2003 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: <1916458036.20030115204131@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > Right away, I see several benefits: > - Members can participate from any computer with a web browser. Even lynx. And right now members can use any eMail client, even elm or mutt... They're just as common, right? > - Anonymity and privacy can be more well-respected. The 'sender' of a > post is your username, not your email address. A system can be It surely can't be hard to have the mailing list archival software munge eMail addresses... It seems to be doing it now okay. Where's the problem? > - There's no worry about HTML, attachments, wierd character sets, spam, > virii, or cctech moderation delay. You can't attach eMails to the list can you? (How do you attach a worm therefore?). As for HTML and character sets, its a small inconvenience honestly - not that many posters use it, after all. > - Your inbox receives less clutter. You spend less bandwidth on mail. Instead you spend it on all the extra HTML markup on web page posts? > - It scales well as more members join and start posting. With a fine MTA (qmail anyone?) you can do alright, but I agree, a slick mod_perl style web interface probably scales "better". However, as my friend always used to say, when we are so logged with traffic that we have scaling issues - well that will be a good day indeed to know we are that popular, and dealing with it will be a joy. (He was a Buddhist, what can I say) > - Features you want can be added in code, quickly. The current setup is > great for turn-key mailing lists and such, but it is tough to extend. What kind of extra features? This is just my two cents; I would rather not move to such a style of list. I think classiccmp is wonderful the way it is. Feel free to pick bones out of my retort. JP From mbg at TheWorld.com Wed Jan 15 22:18:35 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:29 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? Message-ID: <200301160410.XAA109453886@shell.TheWorld.com> I certainly hope that classiccmp does NOT go the direction of a browser based forum... I don't know about others, but I don't like having to use browsers to read newsgroups. I prefer reading and responding to individual messages through mail. Also, I'm not always at a machine at which I can run a browser... Finally, even at some of them which do, the software can't handle the overhead of browser pages and the system freezes... Please keep it as it is... (just my $.02) Megan From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 15 22:21:53 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: IBM 5322 In-Reply-To: <4920.4.20.168.156.1042682284.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > > I have an IBM 5322. I can't find any useful information on the web. It > > looks very much like a System/23 Datamaster. Is it one and the same? > > Doubtful. The type number suggests that it's probably a small System/32 > machine, since System/34, /36, and /38 machines had type numbers > 534x, 536x, and 538x. Aha. Well, this is an all-in-one of course. My intent is to try to access those IBM disks I have with this. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Jan 15 22:25:45 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: SV: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I have *got* to get me one of *those*!! Good luck. In the field of big computers, I think a KA10/KI10 is only eclipsed by a PDP-1 in terms of guys that would go "all the way" for one. Now, THAT would be a slugfest on Ebay... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From mbg at TheWorld.com Wed Jan 15 22:30:00 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: Y2K/Y10K for V5.03 of RT-11 References: Message-ID: <200301160416.XAA111413928@shell.TheWorld.com> >I wanted to use the >SET NEWFIX [OFF,ON,ALL] >to control the use of all the the bug fixes and enhancements. >This command could control the use of all of the changes >made to programs with just one command. When designing RT-11, we tried to limit SET options to be only those things which choose between multiple options, not whether something was 'fixed' or not. If it needs fixing, it needs fixing and should be always on. I would hope this policy would be maintained, even if this is a hobbyist effort, otherwise the spirit behind the way things were done in RT is lost. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | | | | "this space | (s/ at /@/) | | unavoidably left blank" | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mross666 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 15 22:33:52 2003 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: How many PDP-12's are there now? Message-ID: >If anyone wants to send me info, I'll volunteer to collect and put it >up on my website (I won't put email addresses or other incriminating >evidence unless you want me to :-)). OK, reports from the UK: I have one: http://www.corestore.org/pdp-12.htm She had two sisters, at the Burden Neurological Institute. I collected another one along with it, which I immediately passed on to... a person involved with a certain UK 'used DEC' trader, for his personal collection. No names, no pack drill... The third machine there was retained for a number of years, it was still required to be fired up occasionally to read old LINCtapes. It was promised to me, I called religously every few months... 'no we're still using it'... until the fateful day last year I called 'oh we got rid of that a few months ago, we gave it away to someone else who was interested since you hadn't called in a while...'. Bugger. Asked if they would put me in touch with this chap, as he had got a large quantity of spares with it, including a complete CPU/memory 'gate' - enough to build a fourth machine if he had had a rack etc. - thought it would make sense to pool resources. Said they would ask him for permission to put me in touch, he adamantly refused... secretive collectors, bah humbug. So that's three in the UK. Four, with the addition of the Science Museum / CCS example. Most are probably working or near-working, mine has some things to fix, been in storage for years. Now, I would be interested in a list of pdp-15's... Mike http://www.corestore.org _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From ggs at shiresoft.com Wed Jan 15 22:37:28 2003 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: IBM 5322 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1042689471.2159.18.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> On Wed, 2003-01-15 at 17:47, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I have an IBM 5322. I can't find any useful information on the web. It > looks very much like a System/23 Datamaster. Is it one and the same? > > Next question: > > When I boot it up it comes up with a display as follows: > > 07 08 09 0A 0B 0C 0D 0E 0F 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 1A > -- -- -- > > 1B 1C 1D 1E 1F 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 2A 2B 2C 2D 2E > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > > 2F 30 31 32 33 34[35]36 37 38 39 FD > -- -- > > 4A > > The hyphens underneath numbers indicate that those numbers are underlined, > and the square brackets indicate that that number is inversed video. > > Does anyone know what this means? > This is the boot diagnostics. I *used* to know what the individual numbers were, but alas 1980 was a long time ago. > Last question: > > I press the RESET button and it clears the screen and goes into what looks > to be a prompt mode. It had "PROC START" on the bottom, so I entered this > as a command. Now a status line on the bottom has "OPTION 10" with the > "10" blinking and I can't figure out what to do. > You're in the command prompt. There should be a way to get it (again that 1980 thing) to enter the editor so that you can write some code in BASIC. > Does anyone know what is going on? How do I boot from the floppy drive? > Anyone got an OS disk? A manual? > Everything is in ROM. The floppies are for storage of programs and such. > Thanks! -- TTFN - Guy From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jan 15 22:41:24 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8113235641.20030115223429@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, January 15, 2003, Paul Thompson wrote: > The blog format seems more suited to individual monologues with replies > rather than real discussion. Perhaps you are thinking something more like > the yahoo-style message list which essentially threads an email discussion > on a web front end. Yes, the Yahoo groups style is a better model of what I was thinking. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jan 15 22:44:45 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: <200301160257.SAA28600@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200301160257.SAA28600@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <2313575260.20030115224008@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, January 15, 2003, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > I hate having to log into web sites to post when I could have just sent > E-mail (likewise, I hate having to log in to read posts when they could be > mailed to me). That could be solved by saving a cookie on your machine (if you so choose). The next time you logged in, the cookie would get read and you'd be automagically logged in. It isn't all that secure, but it is harder to spoof than email. > If both can be supported, fine, but I strongly prefer E-mail. Would you tolerate putting a special 8-character authentication code (automatically removed before delivery) into every ClassicCmp post to prove that you were you? One of the things that prompted me to think about all this was the inherent spoofability of email. I feel a desire to find a way around it. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jan 15 22:48:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: <200301160309.h0G39dG12297@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200301160309.h0G39dG12297@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <16013768247.20030115224321@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, January 15, 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > With email I can read CLASSICCMP on anything, with a Web-board, I'd be > limited to a modern computer. Surely anything that can run a mail client can run lynx... You could always telnet to port 80 if you were in a pinch! <-- kidding > If this were to happen, I can guarentee a lot of people would leave. That's what I figured. :-\ -- Jeffrey Sharp From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 15 22:51:40 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: <1916458036.20030115204131@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > - Some people may find mailing lists more comfortable. Of course, an email > interface to the weblog could be developed. That is my number 1 issue. I really don't like /.'s format. It's too difficult to read through all the various messages. Plus you don't know where you left off in a thread. I don't know, maybe I don't quite understand /. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Jan 15 22:56:02 2003 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: <0AA85061-2906-11D7-B3F1-000393970B96@neurotica.com> Message-ID: <14A4A5F6-290E-11D7-98A7-000502512D39@calico.litterbox.com> On Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 08:53 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: > On Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 09:41 PM, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: >> In my quest to cover every aspect, to think about every permutation >> of what >> ClassicCmp *could* be in the future, I have yet another question to >> ask >> ClassicCmp subscribers: What if ClassicCmp were a weblog, in the >> style of >> Slashdot or Kuro5hin? It's only appropriate to run this group on a technology which itself is classic. MajorDomo is over 10 years old, so mailing lists qualify. :) And as many others have said, text-only email (all else is an abomination) is low bandwidth and will run on nearly anything, whereas web access requires a ton of bandwidth and computing power. If we did go with a web based system, we'd have to make it work with lynx. After all, if you can't read it on a VT100, it's probably not appropriate to this list. -Jim (who is considering hooking a vt320 to a serial port on his OSX (unix) mac... -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------- MacOS X Powered! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------- From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 15 22:59:18 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: How many PDP-12's are there now? In-Reply-To: <200301152018.PAA32666@parse.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Robert Krten wrote: > Thanks! Check out the beginnings of the pages at: > > http://www.parse.com/~pdp12/location.html Cool. The Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California, USA, has (I believe) three (in unknown operating condition). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From loedman1 at juno.com Wed Jan 15 23:02:40 2003 From: loedman1 at juno.com (loedman1@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: Utter eBay Madness (was help w/pricing) Message-ID: <20030115.205357.-8107.2.loedman1@juno.com> Would that be traction or stationary ? Rich Stephenson >Nop, that was just a sidebranch of a quite great >invention which gave us wall size printouts of >Steam Engines! >Gruss >H. From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 15 23:05:55 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: IBM 5322 In-Reply-To: <1042689471.2159.18.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: On 15 Jan 2003, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > This is the boot diagnostics. I *used* to know what the individual > numbers were, but alas 1980 was a long time ago. Hmm, well maybe I'll come across some manuals. Maybe they're in my garage right now. > You're in the command prompt. There should be a way to get it (again > that 1980 thing) to enter the editor so that you can write some code in > BASIC. Oh, so BASIC is in ROM? > Everything is in ROM. The floppies are for storage of programs and > such. Neat-o! Thanks for the inf-o! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jan 15 23:10:02 2003 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: <2313575260.20030115224008@subatomix.com> from Jeffrey Sharp at "Jan 15, 3 10:40:08 pm" Message-ID: <200301160520.VAA12326@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > I hate having to log into web sites to post when I could have just sent > > E-mail (likewise, I hate having to log in to read posts when they could be > > mailed to me). > > That could be solved by saving a cookie on your machine (if you so choose). With all due respect, yuck. There are many legitimate uses for cookies, which have since been swamped by all the pathologic and invasive ones. > > If both can be supported, fine, but I strongly prefer E-mail. > > Would you tolerate putting a special 8-character authentication code > (automatically removed before delivery) into every ClassicCmp post to prove > that you were you? I would not be very happy about it, though I guess if it had to be done I could live with it, but ... > One of the things that prompted me to think about all this was the inherent > spoofability of email. I feel a desire to find a way around it. ... I'm not sure if making list members go through complex gyrations for this is the best approach, or what specific event prompted it. This isn't a personal slam or anything, but so far in my opinion the new list system has worked out well and I'm unsure why it needs to be 'fixed' if it isn't (particularly) broken -- unless you and Jay know something new. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Experience varies directly with amount of equipment ruined. ---------------- From 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com Wed Jan 15 23:13:23 2003 From: 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com (No Junk Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? Message-ID: <22653-87481@sneakemail.com> I like the way that the AtariAge forums work. (http://www.atariage.com) I think that's UBB. I wouldn't have any problem if CC ran like AA. However, if you did a Slashcode-based system I'd probably leave after a while. Chris J. From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jan 15 23:16:41 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2115585500.20030115231338@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, January 15, 2003, JP Hindin wrote: > On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > Right away, I see several benefits: > > - Members can participate from any computer with a web browser. Even > > lynx. > > And right now members can use any eMail client, even elm or > mutt... They're just as common, right? IMHO, no. The trouble with MUAs is getting some way of either (a) serving mail folders to remote locations or (b) serving the login session to remote locations. Both of those are doable (IMAP, SSH) but can be a pain to set up for some users. Then there's the problem of ensuring you have the right software at the remote location (IMAP-capable email client, SSH client). In some cases (e.g. student lab, internet cafe on vacation), you can't count on that. In nearly every case, you *can* count on some form of web browser. > > - Anonymity and privacy can be more well-respected. The 'sender' of a > > post is your username, not your email address. A system can be > > It surely can't be hard to have the mailing list archival software munge > eMail addresses... Not at all. But messages delivered to subscribers aren't address munged. You can look at the headers of this message and get my email address. I don't think it's a big deal, but someone else might. I think more people would join if they knew their email address would not be disclosed. I know this aspect is fairly debatable. It wasn't the reason I cooked up the web app idea. It was merely a "hrm, we could throw this in too" thought. > You can't attach eMails to the list can you? Yes. If a message is accepted for deliver, it is delivered with only the standard Mailman header modifications. No other filtering takes place. Of course, we could do this now by piping messages through a filter before they hit the Mailman posting script. Easy. > > - Features you want can be added in code, quickly. The current setup is > > great for turn-key mailing lists and such, but it is tough to extend. > > What kind of extra features? Distributed, score-based moderation, for one. My original post on the thread describes it. That pretty much requires that Mailman be ditched. Jay and I also have talked about doing some sort of a marketplace thing, too. Right now, that would require a separate (from Mailman) username/password pair. I would also like to create a data archive and give some people write access to it via a web interface. That could be done with SSH but would require yet another username/password pair. I am not impressed with the current state of archivers, and would like to provide my own. It would be nice if all this was integrated. > This is just my two cents; I sincerely appreciate it. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jan 15 23:20:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: <14A4A5F6-290E-11D7-98A7-000502512D39@calico.litterbox.com> References: <14A4A5F6-290E-11D7-98A7-000502512D39@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <16915716749.20030115231550@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, January 15, 2003, Jim Strickland wrote: > If we did go with a web based system, we'd have to make it work with lynx. Oh yes, that decision has already been made due to popular demand. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jan 15 23:23:16 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1315899922.20030115231853@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, January 15, 2003, Sellam Ismail wrote: > I really don't like /.'s format. It's too difficult to read through all > the various messages. Yahoo groups or Google groups is probably a better example. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jan 15 23:26:39 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: How many PDP-12's are there now? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2515990533.20030115232023@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, January 15, 2003, Mike Ross wrote: > I have one: > http://www.corestore.org/pdp-12.htm It is my sincere conviction that you are all such LUCKY BASTARDS! :-) -- Jeffrey Sharp From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jan 15 23:29:54 2003 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: OT: Maxtor drive goes under Message-ID: <200301160533.VAA12504@stockholm.ptloma.edu> I believe Sellam was cursing at a Maxtor drive a couple months back, and now I know why. The 60GB ATA/133 DiamondStar in my Power Mac 7300 (connected through a Sonnet Tempo Trio) this evening made several hiccup-like noises and the computer froze up. On the next power cycle, it didn't spin up and just sat there and clicked. I suspected stiction (well, I prayed it was stiction) and tried reorienting it and a few gentle taps. On the next power cycle, it didn't even click anymore and made occasional soft grinding noises, and now it doesn't even do that. So, I'm typing this on my Power Book 1400, which I guess will be my desktop system for the time being. Any suggestions for ways to get it to spin up, one last time? Anyone know what happened? I thought it had been a power problem because it made some sounds like this a few weeks ago and replacing the power cable did seem to cure it, but I'm mystified as to why it would die so fast. The drive was not especially hot and it has plenty of ventilation. I guarantee you my next drive will not be a Maxtor. Sorry for the OT -- just looking for any desperation suggestions before I make a new hard drive platter wall clock. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Son, God's going to use you. Until He does, take this pill. -- Mark Lowry -- From jplist at kiwigeek.com Wed Jan 15 23:34:01 2003 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: <2115585500.20030115231338@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > And right now members can use any eMail client, even elm or > > mutt... They're just as common, right? > software at the remote location (IMAP-capable email client, SSH client). In > some cases (e.g. student lab, internet cafe on vacation), you can't count on > that. In nearly every case, you *can* count on some form of web browser. Thats fair. However - how many people would really fall into this category of being completely unable to use an eMail client, of some form, and only a web browser? Statistically one would imagine a remarkably slim proportion... Why inconvenience the many for the few? > > It surely can't be hard to have the mailing list archival software munge > > eMail addresses... > can look at the headers of this message and get my email address. I don't > think it's a big deal, but someone else might. I think more people would > join if they knew their email address would not be disclosed. > I know this aspect is fairly debatable. It wasn't the reason I cooked up the > web app idea. It was merely a "hrm, we could throw this in too" thought. Hmz. I am not everyone, but being that anonymous sounds really stupid. Each to his own. > > You can't attach eMails to the list can you? > Yes. If a message is accepted for deliver, it is delivered with only the > standard Mailman header modifications. No other filtering takes place. Of > course, we could do this now by piping messages through a filter before they > hit the Mailman posting script. Easy. Thats really kinda... nasty. Yippee. Lets forward 150k of image to a couple thousands users ;) I'm glad I don't pay for your bandwidth! > > What kind of extra features? > also have talked about doing some sort of a marketplace thing, too. Right > now, that would require a separate (from Mailman) username/password pair. I > would also like to create a data archive and give some people write access Why? Why can't you have your marketplace CGIs use the Mailman equivalent of a passwd file? I'm just trying to be difficult. I much prefer this format. Things to think about perhaps. JP From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jan 15 23:37:17 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: OT: paging MAC expert(s) --- What's a Performa In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Owen Robertson wrote: > on 1/15/03 9:42 AM, Paul Mika at pdm4606@sbcglobal.net wrote: > I have a 200Mhz 6400 tower. Pretty nice machine, except that it lacks > ethernet. I've got it running MacOS 8.0, and until recently, I also had BeOS > on it. Runs both really well. Has a built in subwoofer for incredibly rich > sound. My main complaint: Other than adding RAM or PCI cards, upgrades are > nearly impossible with that impenetrable case. I'm pretty sure I have an ethernet adapter for that guy. The low-profile-funny-fingers card, right? Want it for the price of postage? Doc From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jan 15 23:40:40 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: About Electronics Questions Message-ID: <3016737056.20030115233250@subatomix.com> With Tony et al as my inspiration, I have recently started to learn electronics. I've been at it a couple of days, and tonight I just had the "aha!" for how high-pass and low-pass filters work. I haven't come across anything yet that has me completely stumped, but if I do, is it appropriate to ask newbie questions about electronics here? I'm supposed to *answer* questions like that, but I just don't know. Typically, I call electronics conversations as on-topic because they are directly relevant to operating classic computers. Newbie questions, however, are more indirect. For another example, we'll help someone with a Windows program that somehow makes his/her classiccmp go, but I doubt we'll bother to teach a person in-list how to double-click. Is electronics any different? -- Jeffrey Sharp From bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com Wed Jan 15 23:44:00 2003 From: bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com (Bill McDermith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: HP 2100 cpu plea In-Reply-To: <004a01c2bcd4$0a6253e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <002701c2bd20$c8183cf0$6501a8c0@az> Jay, I have two but they are non-operating at the moment (2100A/2100S). Do you have access to the documentation/prints for it? (I do, just wondering if you need them...) I have a persistent parity problem with one that I think is simply the +30V threshold needing attention. The other I'm not sure exactly what's wrong... I would be happy to trade for some of the other arcana that I need to get a working system, If that would help. What area of the country are you located in? Regards, Bill McDermith > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Jay West > Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 1:24 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: HP 2100 cpu plea > > > Ok folks, I'm officially desperate. I can't figure out what > is wrong with > the 2100 IOP cpu memory section on my 2000/Access system. So, > just thought > I'd post this to the list....forgive my begging, it isn't > pretty *Grin* > > Anyone have a working HP 2100 cpu available? I will pay real > $$$ at this > point, or trade probably just about anything I have for one. > If anyone has > one they will sell, or trade for, or give away to a place > (me) that will > actually use it and not throw it on a shelf, I would like to > know. I'd also > welcome any leads as to where one might be stored, etc. Or, as an > alternative, if anyone has a magical device that will > instantly transfer all > of Tony Duell's repair knowledge and ability to my brain, > that might work ;) > > FYI - I need either a 2100A or 2100S cpu. Don't need or want > any 21MX or > 1000 type cpus. > > Thanks! > > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Jan 15 23:47:45 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: <1916458036.20030115204131@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > In my quest to cover every aspect, to think about every permutation of > what ClassicCmp *could* be in the future, I have yet another question > to ask ClassicCmp subscribers: What if ClassicCmp were a weblog, in > the style of Slashdot or Kuro5hin? No offense, but, bleaaargh! Using a web browser vs any halfway decent text interface e-mail client (or a newsreader) is extremely inefficient in terms of the time it takes to read/followup to anything. There's no way I'd have the time to wade through hundreds of messages each week using a graphical or a text web browser like lynx. Really, I don't mind the notion of there being web based forums with relevant news items or events, but don't get rid of the mailing list. I think the ideas of the registry and some sort of trade-zone are both very good and would be better areas of focus for web-efforts. -brian. From 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com Wed Jan 15 23:52:01 2003 From: 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com (No Junk Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? Message-ID: <30435-39990@sneakemail.com> > Yahoo groups or Google groups is probably a better example. I hope they're just an example because if you actually move to Yahoo groups then I won't come with. Same is true for www.ezboard.com. Chris J. From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 15 23:55:23 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: from "Jeffrey Sharp" at Jan 15, 2003 11:18:53 PM Message-ID: <200301160539.h0G5dFs17476@shell1.aracnet.com> > On Wednesday, January 15, 2003, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > I really don't like /.'s format. It's too difficult to read through all > > the various messages. > > Yahoo groups or Google groups is probably a better example. I *only* access Yahoo groups through email. I can find time to deal with email, it is non-intrusive. If CLASSICCMP were to move to a web-board, I would leave. I have a hard enough time finding time to keep up with CLASSICCMP, if it were to move to a web-board, I simply wouldn't have time to mess with it. Zane From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Jan 15 23:58:44 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: How many PDP-12's are there now? In-Reply-To: References: <200301152018.PAA32666@parse.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030115233513.03bfee30@ubanproductions.com> There is one at the Computer History Museum in California. I took a pic of it while I was at VCF 5.0. You can look at my pic here: http://www.ubanproductions.com/Images/pdp12_chm.jpg (220kb) Interestingly, that one is orange instead of green. Does someone know if this is a method of dating the PDP-12 or if it represents a different variation of the PDP-12? What is a "Super 12"? --tom >On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Robert Krten wrote: > > > Thanks! Check out the beginnings of the pages at: > > > > http://www.parse.com/~pdp12/location.html From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jan 16 00:02:07 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: PDP 11 In-Reply-To: <200301152143.h0FLhLB29557@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Not necessarily. Depending on what the system is, and how it is configured, > that might be more than it is worth. BTW, 50 Euroes = $52.75 US. > > And, yes, I do have a pretty good idea what PDP-11's are worth. I have a fully functional PDP-11/53, in a deskside BA23 with an RD51 and RX33, that came free. Well, I hadda haul the 42" DEC rack next to it down a flight of stairs.... My matched pair of PDP-11/93s, with SCSI, came in another 42" rack, and cost $0.20/lb. Total of just over $80 for both. Oh, yeah. All three were local, so no shipping expenses. Doc From jss at subatomix.com Thu Jan 16 00:05:26 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: <200301160520.VAA12326@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200301160520.VAA12326@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <14117590023.20030115234703@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, January 15, 2003, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > This isn't a personal slam or anything, but so far in my opinion the new > list system has worked out well and I'm unsure why it needs to be 'fixed' > if it isn't (particularly) broken -- unless you and Jay know something > new. No offense taken. I appreciate all the comments I've been getting so far. Unless >=256 people say they like my idea, it is dumped. Like I said at the beginning, it was just an idea. Exploratory. At this point, I'd still like a dynamic web interface to *view* current list activity, but a full-on blog/board-like system is out. That still doesn't rule out having the data archive, marketplace, and subscription management pages integrated under one username/password pair. Worse case, I might write my own list manager. *That* might be an interesting project. I'm going to bed. I'll see how this thread develops after work tomorrow. -- Jeffrey Sharp From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jan 16 00:09:01 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: <1916458036.20030115204131@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > In my quest to cover every aspect, to think about every permutation of what > ClassicCmp *could* be in the future, I have yet another question to ask > ClassicCmp subscribers: What if ClassicCmp were a weblog, in the style of > Slashdot or Kuro5hin? I vote "Yuck!" I have yet to see a web-forum format that was at all easy to follow. I've also seen a bunch of mail-based forums go web, and die. blogs and Yahoo-style web forums seem to accrete trolls and shed serious members, even when authenticated and moderated. Whassa matta with Pine, anyway? We ain't fixed. Don't break us! Doc From dypstick at dypstick.net Thu Jan 16 00:25:46 2003 From: dypstick at dypstick.net (Dan Dypsky) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? (cctech: addressed to trusted sender for this address) In-Reply-To: <200301160257.SAA28600@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200301160257.SAA28600@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <176255699155.20030115225041@dypstick.net> > That immediately makes it undesirable from my perspective. I hate having to > log into web sites to post when I could have just sent E-mail Agreed. And for those of us not on a dedicated connection, being E-mail based allows for much less time online. > If both can be supported, fine, but I strongly prefer E-mail. As an example of both being implemented, while not exactly the same as outlined by Jeffrey, is http://www.vwtype3.org. I subscribe to the mailing list, but there is also a web-based 'doorway', where non-subscribers can read and post replies. I think it would be a step backwards to be completely web-based, but if it were similar to the way the cctalk and cctech are both doorways to the same list, ie. the web site and the mailing list were different mediums for the same content, I think it would be a great thing. I would enjoy the SPAM protection offered by the blog, as well as the moderation aspects, but personally, I would still use the E-mail list. Dan --------- "Let everyone be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to anger." James 1:19 From root at parse.com Thu Jan 16 00:29:28 2003 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: How many PDP-12's are there now? In-Reply-To: <00a501c2bcc6$897e56a0$020010ac@k4jcw> from "J.C.Wren" at Jan 15, 2003 01:47:20 PM Message-ID: <200301160321.WAA03047@parse.com> J.C.Wren sez... > > I live in GA, very near Roswell. What's the info on the '12? Trying really hard not to give out the guys info publically (so that everyone and his dog sends him email :-) contact me off list. The long and short of it is that these two guys both had PDP-12s, both live around Roswell, and one of them gave me his :-) Cheers, -RK > --John > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > Behalf Of Robert Krten > > Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 00:04 > > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Subject: How many PDP-12's are there now? > > > > > > > > So... > > > > all this discussion about PDP-12's has got me curious. > > > > How many of them are there in existence? > > > > It would certainly be interesting to get a list of machines and at > > least city locations -- I'll start the list: > > > > Ottawa/ON/Canada (mine) > > Roswell/GA/USA > > > > If anyone wants to send me info, I'll volunteer to collect and put it > > up on my website (I won't put email addresses or other incriminating > > evidence unless you want me to :-)). > > > > The other interesting thing that this discussion begs is the topic of > > (borrowed term) "biomagnification". It's from the > > environmental field, > > and basically relates to how bigger animals get more than their "fair" > > share of poisons because they eat smaller animals which have already > > concentrated the poisons in their systems. I've borrowed the > > term because > > lately what I've been thinking about is the accumulated collections of > > people who are no longer interested in collecting -- in this case, > > instead of just getting one or two machines at a time, you tend to > > get "clusters" of machines -- hence "biomagnification" :-) > > > > So... any collectors out there getting rid of PDP stuff? :-) > > > > Cheers, > > -RK > > > > -- > > Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 > > minicomputers! > > Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. > > Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at > > www.parse.com > > -- Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com From root at parse.com Thu Jan 16 00:32:49 2003 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: <200301160257.SAA28600@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Jan 15, 2003 06:57:23 PM Message-ID: <200301160334.WAA23043@parse.com> Cameron Kaiser sez... > > > - Posting and reading of messages would be doable from a web browser. An > > email interface could be developed, but it wouldn't be the primary > > method of participation. > > That immediately makes it undesirable from my perspective. I hate having to > log into web sites to post when I could have just sent E-mail (likewise, I > hate having to log in to read posts when they could be mailed to me). > > If both can be supported, fine, but I strongly prefer E-mail. Second that for the same reasons. Plus, emails are just so much more "archivable" than HTTP fetches... :-) Cheers, -RK -- Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Jan 16 00:36:15 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: Maxtor drive goes under In-Reply-To: <200301160533.VAA12504@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <00c501c2bd23$48f66ed0$020010ac@k4jcw> All drive manufacturers have particular models that have had problems. For instance, you'd have to pay me a damn lot of money to stick anything that says "Western Digital" in my systems. I've been running Maxtors for years, and I recently had a 60GB D740X toast itself. First time ever. OTOH, I've had WDs belly-up left and right. I used to be a big fan of IBM drives, until the DeathStar 60GXP and 75GXP debacle. www.storagereview.com is a good place to get comparisons of HDs. And you can contribute your experiences to the database. The database covers a lot of drives, but was initially started because of the 60GXP and 75GXPs. IBM was claiming there was no problem, the rest of the world proved them horribly wrong. Personally, I'll stick with Maxtors. I've got 10 Maxtors HDs currently spinning here (ranging from 27GB 5400 RPM to 80GB 7200 RPM drives), and this D740X is the first bad one. And Maxtor has (or had) a damn good warranty. There's been some talk about Maxtor and WD going from 3 year warranties to 1 year. Something about getting too expensive, since HDs rarely stay in service 3 years (in the real world. Don't start talking here about how we're all still running drives from the '70's yada yada yada. We're not a real cross section of the market). --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Cameron Kaiser > Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 00:34 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: OT: Maxtor drive goes under > > > I believe Sellam was cursing at a Maxtor drive a couple > months back, and > now I know why. > > The 60GB ATA/133 DiamondStar in my Power Mac 7300 (connected > through a Sonnet > Tempo Trio) this evening made several hiccup-like noises and > the computer > froze up. On the next power cycle, it didn't spin up and just > sat there and > clicked. I suspected stiction (well, I prayed it was > stiction) and tried > reorienting it and a few gentle taps. On the next power > cycle, it didn't even > click anymore and made occasional soft grinding noises, and > now it doesn't > even do that. > > So, I'm typing this on my Power Book 1400, which I guess will > be my desktop > system for the time being. > > Any suggestions for ways to get it to spin up, one last time? > Anyone know > what happened? I thought it had been a power problem because > it made some > sounds like this a few weeks ago and replacing the power > cable did seem to > cure it, but I'm mystified as to why it would die so fast. > The drive was not > especially hot and it has plenty of ventilation. > > I guarantee you my next drive will not be a Maxtor. > > Sorry for the OT -- just looking for any desperation > suggestions before I > make a new hard drive platter wall clock. > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: > http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * > ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- Son, God's going to use you. Until He does, take this > pill. -- Mark Lowry -- From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jan 16 00:41:25 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: About Electronics Questions In-Reply-To: from "Jeffrey Sharp" at Jan 15, 2003 11:32:50 PM Message-ID: <200301160557.h0G5vZs18136@shell1.aracnet.com> > With Tony et al as my inspiration, I have recently started to learn > electronics. I've been at it a couple of days, and tonight I just had the > "aha!" for how high-pass and low-pass filters work. I haven't come across > anything yet that has me completely stumped, but if I do, is it appropriate > to ask newbie questions about electronics here? > > I'm supposed to *answer* questions like that, but I just don't know. > Typically, I call electronics conversations as on-topic because they are > directly relevant to operating classic computers. Newbie questions, however, > are more indirect. For another example, we'll help someone with a Windows > program that somehow makes his/her classiccmp go, but I doubt we'll bother > to teach a person in-list how to double-click. Is electronics any different? I'm inclined to say begining electronics questions would be ontopic. Sure it's a bit of a stretch, but I sure wouldn't complain. Unfortunatly I'm starting to doubt I'll ever find time to ask them myself :^( Zane From marvin at rain.org Thu Jan 16 00:45:24 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: OT: Maxtor drive goes under References: <200301160533.VAA12504@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3E264D0C.73D6BA53@rain.org> There are several things I try in such situation. I will rarely tap a drive except as a last resort. The first thing I do is remove it from the equipment :), and give it a *fast* twist. The idea is to use the momentum of the disk to hold it still while the case rotates around it. If that doesn't work, I will try putting it in a freezer bag (to try and reduce condensation) and put it in the refridgerator for a while, and then try it. If the data is *really* important, at that point I would send it to a data recovery service. If you have given up at that point, I would remove the cover (in a preferrably a smoke/dust mostly free environment), check it out, and assuming it hasn't crashed, give it a manual turn with power on. If it hasn't crashed, one of the problems might be in the flex circuit connecting the head flexures to the HD body, and you might take a careful look at that (although I think it is unlikely you would be able to spot the fracture/break in the circuit.) Each time I powered up the unit, I would have *everything* set up to try and copy whatever data you feel is important as fast as possible. YMMV and Good luck! Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > I believe Sellam was cursing at a Maxtor drive a couple months back, and > now I know why. > > The 60GB ATA/133 DiamondStar in my Power Mac 7300 (connected through a Sonnet > Tempo Trio) this evening made several hiccup-like noises and the computer > froze up. On the next power cycle, it didn't spin up and just sat there and > clicked. I suspected stiction (well, I prayed it was stiction) and tried > reorienting it and a few gentle taps. On the next power cycle, it didn't even > click anymore and made occasional soft grinding noises, and now it doesn't > even do that. > > So, I'm typing this on my Power Book 1400, which I guess will be my desktop > system for the time being. > > Any suggestions for ways to get it to spin up, one last time? Anyone know > what happened? I thought it had been a power problem because it made some > sounds like this a few weeks ago and replacing the power cable did seem to > cure it, but I'm mystified as to why it would die so fast. The drive was not > especially hot and it has plenty of ventilation. > > I guarantee you my next drive will not be a Maxtor. > > Sorry for the OT -- just looking for any desperation suggestions before I > make a new hard drive platter wall clock. > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- Son, God's going to use you. Until He does, take this pill. -- Mark Lowry -- From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Jan 16 00:49:30 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: How many PDP-12's are there now? In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030115233513.03bfee30@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: > Interestingly, that one is orange instead of green. Does someone > know if this is a method of dating the PDP-12 or if it represents a > different variation of the PDP-12? Just a paint job. Aforementioned Clinical-12 are blue, not green, simply because they were sold to the medical industry. There are no other differences. What is the orange one called? > What is a "Super 12"? Slang for a really big -12. Generally these were the expanded PDP-12s with the floating point unit and hard disk (RK05, I think - there is actually a "processorless" PDP-8/E chassis embedded in the expansion racks, just to handle the RK8E controller). William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From msspcva at yahoo.com Thu Jan 16 00:53:32 2003 From: msspcva at yahoo.com (Clayton Frank Helvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: Selling an old IBM AS400/9404 In-Reply-To: <3866.4.20.168.156.1042686128.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <20030116062437.85824.qmail@web41112.mail.yahoo.com> I've got some info to add to this discussion plus a question about this hardware from the more AS/400 savvy folks out there. I've got a license tape from a 9406-D60 As/400. I've got two backplanes, each in separate cabinets: 9406-5010/5030 I/O Card Unit Feature 5042 Expansion chassis The tape in question was stuck in the 5042 cabinet. Question: Are these two backplanes designed to work together? Or are they two separate systems? The tape has this particular notice on the label: 9406-D60 MODEL UNIQUE LIC - PROPERTY OF IBM LICENSED FOR USE ON INDICATED SPECIFIC SERIAL NUMBERED SYSTEM, NOT LICENSED FOR ANY OTHER USE, REPRODUCTION, ADAPTATION OR DISTRIBUTION. Then there's a small sticker with a 9406 serial number on it. So to keep this kosher, would I have to sell the 5042 with the tape? Also - is there anyone on the list that would be willing to pay for either of these things? Or is my only recourse used AS/400 dealers? If I can find someone near Roanoke VA USA that would like to buy them I'd probably part with them for cheap... save me the hassle of packing them up on pallets. -- Frank --- Eric Smith wrote: > > How do you tell a MULIC tape? Is there anything > special printed on it? > > (like MULIC?) > > Probably. > > > I have a number of tapes from a CISC 9404 or 9402 > which claim to be > > OS/400 V2 as well as other tapes the purpose of > is unclear. > > If the tape says it's OS/400, then it's not MULIC. > > > ===== = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= Clayton Frank Helvey, President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com ============================================================ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From ggs at shiresoft.com Thu Jan 16 00:58:06 2003 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: IBM 5322 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1042698904.2157.27.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> On Wed, 2003-01-15 at 20:54, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On 15 Jan 2003, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > > > This is the boot diagnostics. I *used* to know what the individual > > numbers were, but alas 1980 was a long time ago. > > Hmm, well maybe I'll come across some manuals. Maybe they're in my > garage right now. You'll know it if you have them. There were about 6' of manuals for that machine. The binder covers were a dark orangish beige. > > > You're in the command prompt. There should be a way to get it (again > > that 1980 thing) to enter the editor so that you can write some code in > > BASIC. > > Oh, so BASIC is in ROM? Yea, about 112K worth for the control program and the BASIC interpreter (actually somewhat of a compiler, when you finished editing, it would compile it in to byte codes and run that). It could have up to 128K of RAM in it. Do you actually have one of these beasts? -- TTFN - Guy From ggs at shiresoft.com Thu Jan 16 01:02:25 2003 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: HP 2100 cpu plea In-Reply-To: <002701c2bd20$c8183cf0$6501a8c0@az> References: <002701c2bd20$c8183cf0$6501a8c0@az> Message-ID: <1042699025.2159.30.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> On Wed, 2003-01-15 at 21:33, Bill McDermith wrote: > Jay, > > I have two but they are non-operating at the moment (2100A/2100S). > Do you have access to the documentation/prints for it? (I do, just > wondering if you need them...) I have a persistent parity problem > with one that I think is simply the +30V threshold needing attention. > The other I'm not sure exactly what's wrong... > > I would be happy to trade for some of the other arcana that I need > to get a working system, If that would help. What area of the country > are you located in? > The first computer that I learned to program on was an HP 2114A. Anyone know where I could locate one (or a 2115 or 2116)? Thanks. -- TTFN - Guy From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Thu Jan 16 01:07:01 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: Maxtor drive goes under Message-ID: After the experiences my company has using Dell desktops with Maxtor drives, as well as some personal experiences (below) I wouldn't have either a Dell computer *or* a Maxtor drive anywhere near my personal system. Dells today are the "Acer's" and "Packard Bells" of the current day - cheap, not easily expandable, and quick to wear out. And here, we're replacing Maxtor drives daily. OTOH, the oldest drive in my home network, now revered and used as a zip file storage drive, is a WD 720 "Caviar." That 720MB drive, small by current day standards, survived a house fire last year that melted the case it lived in. The frame, all the drives (3), and even my "ancient" AMD 450Mhz CPU chip survived. The box, however, is slag. I think I'll stay with WD. My current home *custom built) system boasts an AMD 1.1Ghz chip, 1 WD 8Gb system drive, 2 WD 80GB personal account (6 family members) and application drives, and the 1 old WD as a storage drive (aren't Promise cards wonderful?!). Cheers! Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, TX; USA Phone (210) 592-3110, Fax (210) 592-2048 edward.tillman@valero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of "J.C.Wren" > > Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 11:51 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Maxtor drive goes under > > All drive manufacturers have particular models that have had > problems. For > instance, you'd have to pay me a damn lot of money to stick anything that > says "Western Digital" in my systems. I've been running Maxtors for > years, > and I recently had a 60GB D740X toast itself. First time ever. OTOH, > I've > had WDs belly-up left and right. I used to be a big fan of IBM drives, > until the DeathStar 60GXP and 75GXP debacle. > > www.storagereview.com is a good place to get comparisons of HDs. > And you > can contribute your experiences to the database. The database covers a > lot > of drives, but was initially started because of the 60GXP and 75GXPs. IBM > was claiming there was no problem, the rest of the world proved them > horribly wrong. > > Personally, I'll stick with Maxtors. I've got 10 Maxtors HDs > currently > spinning here (ranging from 27GB 5400 RPM to 80GB 7200 RPM drives), and > this > D740X is the first bad one. And Maxtor has (or had) a damn good warranty. > There's been some talk about Maxtor and WD going from 3 year warranties to > 1 > year. Something about getting too expensive, since HDs rarely stay in > service 3 years (in the real world. Don't start talking here about how > we're all still running drives from the '70's yada yada yada. We're not a > real cross section of the market). > > --John > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > Behalf Of Cameron Kaiser > > Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 00:34 > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: OT: Maxtor drive goes under > > > > > > I believe Sellam was cursing at a Maxtor drive a couple > > months back, and > > now I know why. > > > > The 60GB ATA/133 DiamondStar in my Power Mac 7300 (connected > > through a Sonnet > > Tempo Trio) this evening made several hiccup-like noises and > > the computer > > froze up. On the next power cycle, it didn't spin up and just > > sat there and > > clicked. I suspected stiction (well, I prayed it was > > stiction) and tried > > reorienting it and a few gentle taps. On the next power > > cycle, it didn't even > > click anymore and made occasional soft grinding noises, and > > now it doesn't > > even do that. > > > > So, I'm typing this on my Power Book 1400, which I guess will > > be my desktop > > system for the time being. > > > > Any suggestions for ways to get it to spin up, one last time? > > Anyone know > > what happened? I thought it had been a power problem because > > it made some > > sounds like this a few weeks ago and replacing the power > > cable did seem to > > cure it, but I'm mystified as to why it would die so fast. > > The drive was not > > especially hot and it has plenty of ventilation. > > > > I guarantee you my next drive will not be a Maxtor. > > > > Sorry for the OT -- just looking for any desperation > > suggestions before I > > make a new hard drive platter wall clock. > > > > -- > > ----------------------------- personal page: > > http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * > > ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > > -- Son, God's going to use you. Until He does, take this > > pill. -- Mark Lowry -- > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 5184 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030116/37415b96/attachment.bin From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jan 16 01:15:28 2003 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? (cctech: addressed to trusted sender for this address) In-Reply-To: <176255699155.20030115225041@dypstick.net> Message-ID: On Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 10:50 PM, Dan Dypsky wrote: > I would enjoy the SPAM protection offered by the blog, as well as the > moderation aspects, but personally, I would still use the E-mail list. Spam filtering borders on the trivial, man. Getting rid of a mailing list to circumvent spam is sortsa like killing a disease by killing the patient. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols From spc at conman.org Thu Jan 16 01:38:00 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: <14117590023.20030115234703@subatomix.com> from "Jeffrey Sharp" at Jan 15, 2003 11:47:03 PM Message-ID: <200301160741.CAA29130@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Jeffrey Sharp once stated: > > No offense taken. I appreciate all the comments I've been getting so far. > Unless >=256 people say they like my idea, it is dumped. Like I said at the > beginning, it was just an idea. Exploratory. At this point, I'd still like a > dynamic web interface to *view* current list activity, but a full-on > blog/board-like system is out. Here's a really radical idea: use a Wiki. Check out http://c2.com/cgi/wiki for an idea of what a WikiWikiWeb is like. Quite dynamic, purely text driven (so far, all the Wiki's I've seen have been primarily text based) and very open to every one (and that's one of the things that scares most people). Other than that, I still prefer email. -spc (It's two way, and the closest thing to pure hypertext as I've seen on the World Wide Web ... ) From Peter.Hicks at POGGS.CO.UK Thu Jan 16 01:42:25 2003 From: Peter.Hicks at POGGS.CO.UK (Peter Hicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: Ron Collison (and anyone else): XENIX In-Reply-To: <3E260AFE.9000706@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <003601c2bca7$c59c2460$84539384@ca.caldera.com> <63327.213.250.80.46.1042660834.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> <3E260AFE.9000706@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3E266231.6020007@POGGS.CO.UK> ben franchuk wrote: >> I still get nostalgic moments when I think about minix and xenix and >> the time when I knew what every single program in /usr/bin actually >> was :-) > > Or try and find where stuff like doc's are put now days. Open source > is good but the Doc's need to be improved. It isn't quantity, its quality - having lots of documentation is useless if its not decent documentation. Take the docs I have for a big company's SQL server. They say to enable SNMP support, you click a checkbox, but there's no sign of it anywhere, and furthermore, nothing more than the briefest of brief mentions of what their SNMP implementation provides. (ob-cc) My ancient BBC 'B' came with enough technical documentation to go completely over my head about 18 years ago! Peter. From tim at tim-mann.org Thu Jan 16 01:54:27 2003 From: tim at tim-mann.org (Tim Mann) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: Technique for scanning in documentation In-Reply-To: <20030116030852.36226.14623.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20030116030852.36226.14623.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030115235729.3c64c1c6.tim@tim-mann.org> > Acrobat 4 can import up to 50 files at once. So if you have > scanned to 50 individual TIFFs you can import them all in > one go (it's not that speedy though!). I expect that > Acrobat 5 can also import, but I could never find the > right menu ! What it can do (which 4 and earlier could not) > is spit out a PDF file as individual G4 compressed TIFFs. G4 compression is pretty poor. I really like DjVu format instead of PDF. It uses much better compression technology (JBIG2 for bitonal black/white and fractal compression for color images) and gives better legibility as well. Check out the free, open source tools for creating and viewing it at http://djvu.sourceforge.net/, and the free-beer Windows and Mac viewers at www.djvu.com. For DjVu examples, see some of the newer documents on my TRS-80 page, http://www.tim-mann.org/misosys.html I think Acrobat 5 may also have JBIG2 compression, though earlier versions didn't, so if you have that, you may do about as well as DjVu for bitonal (aka "line art") scans. People trying to view them will need an up-to-date version of the Acrobat reader too, of course. -- Tim Mann tim@tim-mann.org http://www.tim-mann.org/ From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 16 01:58:37 2003 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:30 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? Message-ID: Personally, I'm likely to be far too lazy to post if it goes "blog".. WTF is Kuro5hin? Slashdot is that linux thingy right? Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Thu Jan 16 02:03:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: M100 Keys Sought Message-ID: Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, TX; USA Phone (210) 592-3110, Fax (210) 592-2048 edward.tillman@valero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of "Dwight K. > Elvey" > Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 1:33 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: M100 Keys Sought > > >From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > > > >> > Is that the Samsung M100 phone? > >> > Or the Lotus Elan M100? > >> > (I doubt that you have the M100 spiral galaxy for sale) > > > >On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Scarletdown wrote: > >> I'll sell you the Large Magellanic Cloud for $50,000, and throw in > >> the Small Magellanic Cloud as a bonus. :) > > > >Sorry. > >Much as I'd love to add it to my collection, I'm having MAJOR > >problems with storage space - I had to hand over most of my > >collection to Sellam, just due to lack adequate space. > >(space is NOT expanding) > > > > > > Hi > EPA might complain. Super nova 1997A has been spewing > out a lot of radio active waste. Since this is part of > it, shipping may also be an issue. > Dwight > [Tillman, Edward] In that case, maybe a small lead-lined box? or ball? Wonder what kind of safety features came with Orion's Belt? After all -- that big ol' galaxy in that itty-bitty ball... Cheers! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3049 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030116/7b2fd81b/attachment.bin From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 16 02:06:57 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: IBM 5322 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On 15 Jan 2003, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > > > This is the boot diagnostics. I *used* to know what the individual > > numbers were, but alas 1980 was a long time ago. > > Hmm, well maybe I'll come across some manuals. Maybe they're in my > garage right now. Well whaddya know? I picked up a box of IBM System/23 manuals from a lady in the next city over a while back. She unfortunately ditched the machine but held onto the manuals, then found me and told me to come and get 'em. I picked them up and stored them away in my garage. Here's what it says on the Specifications page of one of the manuals I have--the "IBM System/23 Business Management and Accounting System": The IBM System/23 Inventory Accounting application is designed to operate on an IBM System/23 Datamaster system with the following minimum configuration: o 1--5322 Computer, Model 124 (64K, 1mb) o 1--5241 Printer (any model) o Diskette Sort Feature (#6300) So what I have is, in fact, a System/23 Datamaster. Sweet! So there you have it, Eric ;) I also have all the software diskettes for this application as well, so I can play around with them. I'm guessing that the disks I have that I am trying to read were made on a System/23. If I'm super lucky, I even have the applications with which the data on them was created. The next thing will be to figure out how to export the data from this machine to a PC. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Thu Jan 16 02:10:58 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: M100 Keys Sought Message-ID: Wanna grab a shuttle pod and take a spin? I'm sure we can find an ol' 486/33 computer to run the thing... Cheers! Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, TX; USA Phone (210) 592-3110, Fax (210) 592-2048 edward.tillman@valero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of "Eric > Smith" > Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 6:20 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Cc: 3sdiarftt02@sneakemail.com > Subject: Re: RE: M100 Keys Sought > > >> Should I bet on the galaxy? > > > > No keys. > > Are you certain? It has on occasion taken me 15 minutes to find keys > just around my house. I'd expect that verifying that the M100 galaxy > has no keys would take one heck of a long time. > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2609 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030116/af614ea5/attachment.bin From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 16 02:14:55 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: OT: Maxtor drive goes under In-Reply-To: <200301160533.VAA12504@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > I believe Sellam was cursing at a Maxtor drive a couple months back, and > now I know why. > > The 60GB ATA/133 DiamondStar in my Power Mac 7300 (connected through a > Sonnet Tempo Trio) this evening made several hiccup-like noises and the > computer froze up. On the next power cycle, it didn't spin up and just > sat there and clicked. I suspected stiction (well, I prayed it was > stiction) and tried reorienting it and a few gentle taps. On the next > power cycle, it didn't even click anymore and made occasional soft > grinding noises, and now it doesn't even do that. EEEEEEEK! I'd better finish backing up my files. I keep telling myself I need to get this done, but I'm such the procrastinator. I hear the hiccup almost every night I am on my computer. It seems to happen at a set time almost. Odd. > Any suggestions for ways to get it to spin up, one last time? Anyone > know what happened? I thought it had been a power problem because it > made some sounds like this a few weeks ago and replacing the power cable > did seem to cure it, but I'm mystified as to why it would die so fast. > The drive was not especially hot and it has plenty of ventilation. I believe you are hosed, my friend. If you had important data (and no backup) your option will be to send it to a data recovery house and hope for the best. If it's recoverable, you're looking at $700-$1200. If not, you'll in the very least pay an examination fee of around $70. Let me know if you need suggestions for a data recovery place. There is one local that I have used several times, and they have a better than 50% track record with being able to recover my data. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 16 02:19:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: Maxtor drive goes under In-Reply-To: <00c501c2bd23$48f66ed0$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, J.C.Wren wrote: > www.storagereview.com is a good place to get comparisons of HDs. And you > can contribute your experiences to the database. The database covers a lot > of drives, but was initially started because of the 60GXP and 75GXPs. IBM > was claiming there was no problem, the rest of the world proved them > horribly wrong. Crapola. I hate having to deal with this shit. Is IBM offering a swap? I bought this drive last Spring after I was hit by a virus. I still have my receipt. I don't want to wait until this thing dies to have to go out and spend another $80 (not to mention the countless hours of installing and copying over files). > Personally, I'll stick with Maxtors. I've got 10 Maxtors HDs currently > spinning here (ranging from 27GB 5400 RPM to 80GB 7200 RPM drives), and this > D740X is the first bad one. And Maxtor has (or had) a damn good warranty. > There's been some talk about Maxtor and WD going from 3 year warranties to 1 > year. Something about getting too expensive, since HDs rarely stay in > service 3 years (in the real world. Don't start talking here about how > we're all still running drives from the '70's yada yada yada. We're not a > real cross section of the market). The Seagate ST-225 in my Apple Sider ][ hard drive is still going strong after about 17 years of service. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Jan 16 02:23:06 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: Web-based MailList: No. Message-ID: I personally would hate/loathe/despise any web-based Krep, since I (and a very small minority of others) read my mail in ASCII using Pine under a Unix Shell account, and I ain't plannin' on a-changin' it. Although there is something to be said of the Wikiwiki scenario... it seems to bridge the User Interface gap well. Of course I can't speak as to it's Admin or Secure aspects... Cheers 7-Bit John From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jan 16 02:27:06 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: <1916458036.20030115204131@subatomix.com> References: <1916458036.20030115204131@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3E2668CE.3060109@internet1.net> Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > In my quest to cover every aspect, to think about every permutation of what > ClassicCmp *could* be in the future, I have yet another question to ask > ClassicCmp subscribers: What if ClassicCmp were a weblog, in the style of > Slashdot or Kuro5hin? It sounds like you are talking about a web board type thing. Please NO. There are a few that I read from time to time, but they are a pain to navigate, and email is so much easier! Web boards are what non-computer people tend to use, in my opinion. I wish the various truck boards I read were mailing lists!!!! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 16 02:31:15 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: IBM 5322 In-Reply-To: <1042698904.2157.27.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: On 15 Jan 2003, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > > Hmm, well maybe I'll come across some manuals. Maybe they're in my > > garage right now. > > You'll know it if you have them. There were about 6' of manuals for > that machine. The binder covers were a dark orangish beige. I only have a box-ful of manuals: Learning System/23 BASIC BASIC Language Reference Sections 1&2 Learning to Use System/23 Operator's Reference System Reference System Messages Customer Support Functions Volumes 1&2 > Do you actually have one of these beasts? Yes! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From wmsmith at earthlink.net Thu Jan 16 02:36:02 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: IBM 5322 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002901c2bd37$869ca920$513bcd18@D73KSM11> > I have an IBM 5322. I can't find any useful information on > the web. It looks very much like a System/23 Datamaster. Is > it one and the same? > > Next question: > > When I boot it up it comes up with a display as follows: > > 07 08 09 0A 0B 0C 0D 0E 0F 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 1A > -- -- -- > > 1B 1C 1D 1E 1F 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 2A 2B 2C 2D 2E > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > > 2F 30 31 32 33 34[35]36 37 38 39 FD > -- -- > > 4A > > The hyphens underneath numbers indicate that those numbers > are underlined, and the square brackets indicate that that > number is inversed video. > > Does anyone know what this means? > > Last question: > > I press the RESET button and it clears the screen and goes > into what looks to be a prompt mode. It had "PROC START" on > the bottom, so I entered this as a command. Now a status > line on the bottom has "OPTION 10" with the "10" blinking and > I can't figure out what to do. > > Does anyone know what is going on? How do I boot from the > floppy drive? Anyone got an OS disk? A manual? > > Thanks! > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage It is a Datamaster -- the same thing I had in my exhibit at VCF 5.0. The numbers indicate internal diagnostic tests. Here's what the numbers stand for: 01 CPU 02 ROS 03 Reserved 04 R/W Storage 05-07 CRT Controller 08 Page registers 09-19 ROS installed on planar board 1A-29 Feature ROS installed on I/O cards 2A-30 R/W Storage 31 R/W Storage Page Register 32 DMA Page Register 33 Interrupt Controller 34 Internal Timer 35 Keyboard 36 Printer Attachment 37 Diagnose Command to Printer 38 Diskette Attachment 39 +24 Volts to internal diskette 3A Second printer attachment 3B Diagnose CMD to Second Printer 3C Internal Wrap of Serial Interface Adapter 3D Open link to a 5247 [hard disk] 3E Check 5247 Disk unit for "ready" status FD System Diskette installation An underlined number means the feature is not attached to the 5322. My diagnostics manual says that if you get a display of 3F through FC (and I believe 4A would fall in there) then you need to "replace CPU planar board". However, because you are getting to PROC START -- which is where you should be, I think the problem lies elsewhere -- with the 35. According to the manual, the inverse video on the 35 means that you have a "jammed down key" that is being detected on startup. This may well be causing the "41". "PROC START" is the normal prompt following boot and is asking you to insert the "Customer Support Functions" diskette into the computer, which contains a program called "START" which is an update program which prompts you to enter date, time, etc. When you hit enter (or type PROC START as you did) the 5322 looks for the program in the disk drive. The flashing "OPTION 10" is an action code meaning "insert diskette." You can clear this by either using (1) the error reset key, (2) Cmd key and Error Reset, or (3) Cmd key and Attn key. The computer boots to BASIC, which is the OS. Try typing in a few lines when you get the PROC START screen. I have manuals. I also have customer support disk, learning disk, etc. if you need copies. I also have an extra planar board (condition unknown) if you think it's a problem. -W From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 16 02:39:58 2003 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: IBM 5322 Message-ID: Here, in the future, use the IBM US Sales Manual: http://www2.ibmlink.ibm.com/cgi-bin/master?xh=6IoY5YcEq*i*pR1USenGnN9332&request=salesmanual&parms=&xfr=N Yes, its a NASTY looking address, but using that took me .23 seconds to find out the 5322 is a Datamaster CPU.. but then I scrolled down and the beast had been ID'ed. Will J _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Jan 16 02:44:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: Mac TV References: Message-ID: <002101c2bd38$3c8eb980$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Will Jennings wrote: > So I should offer the guy something like 10 bucks for it and then > offer it to the list for like 30 or, that way I can make some money > to send to VISA and someone who loves Macs will be happy and it won't > get junked, in other words. Please don't flame me for wanting to > profit, but I'm seriously broke and need to pay Chris Kennedy/Visa/my > parents/go to college/get gas/fix my power steering/pay J. Darren > Petersen/etc. I think a $20 profit is fair, as I already spent time > finding it, gas getting there, and would spend money obtaining it as > well. Thoughts? Just out of interest, can a Mac TV output PAL video and operate off 230V (UK mains voltage)? I'd love to get one (and get it to do something useful), but they don't seem to have appeared in the UK market yet. OTOH, I *do* have a VCR that can operate as an NTSC->PAL converter... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Thu Jan 16 02:48:05 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? Message-ID: I have to agree with most of what I've read here. Though I'm very new to your list, I'd really much rather it stay an e-mail list. To do otherwise, puts me in mind of the the bulky and cantankerous mail groups in MSN (Hotmail) or Yahoo - lotsa spash and excess drivel, but much less bang for your buck. Further, you'd lose the spontenaiety. For folk who have trouble picking out the thread they want to follow in the lists, they can always configure their e-mail clients with topic folders (yeah, even older e-mail clients like Eudora or Juno; and for those even older, echo/netmail offline readers!). That puts the onus back on the participant, and not on an often overworked administrator or moderator. As an ex-BBS sysop (1.387.57, 1991-1997), that's a position I can well apreciate. Cheers! Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, TX; USA Phone (210) 592-3110, Fax (210) 592-2048 edward.tillman@valero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of Paul > Thompson > Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 9:39 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? > > On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > Email is a fast, sleek and lowbandwidth medium. Web-boards, on the > > otherhand are cumbersome and time consuming. With email I can read > > CLASSICCMP on anything, with a Web-board, I'd be limited to a modern > > computer. If this were to happen, I can guarentee a lot of people would > > leave. > > > -- > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3255 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030116/87aff9cf/attachment.bin From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Jan 16 02:53:02 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: Technique for scanning in documentation In-Reply-To: <20030115235729.3c64c1c6.tim@tim-mann.org> References: <20030116030852.36226.14623.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <20030115235729.3c64c1c6.tim@tim-mann.org> Message-ID: <32991.64.169.63.74.1042705512.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Tim Mann wrote: > G4 compression is pretty poor. I really like DjVu format instead of > PDF. It uses much better compression technology (JBIG2 for bitonal > black/white and fractal compression for color images) and gives better > legibility as well. Actually, DjVu doesn't use JBIG2, it uses JB2, which was AT&T's proposal to the JBIG committee which was rejected. (That doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with it.) Note that JB2 as normally used is NOT lossless even for bilevel images. It *can* be used for lossless encoding, but then it doesn't do much better than G4. So all the available DjVu tools use lossy encoding. The "better legibility" is debatable. Note that it is fundamentally impossible for a lossy compression algorithm to give a more accurate reproduction than a lossless one, however more accurate reproduction does not necesarily imply better legibility. In general I prefer to use lossless compression in the hope that OCR technology will eventually be good enough to be useful. It's always possible to run the file through a legibility filter later, but once you've used lossy compression you can't later decide you prefer accuracy. I've compared scanned docs encoded in G4 and JB2/DjVu, and when printed out the G4 looked slightly better to me. On-screen there was less of a noticable difference. It may be that the commercial DjVu viewer does a better job of scaling for display than Acrobat Reader, but that's entirely orthogonal to the compression algorithm used. My main problems with DjVu are: 1) Everyone already has Acrobat. Expecting people to install a new application to view documents I scan seems rather presumptuous. 2) The compression in DjVu is patented. There is a somewhat wishy-washy patent license for GPL'd software that may cover the AT&T patents, however the base compression technology is encumbered by other non-AT&T patents on arithmetic coding and such. All the patents on G4 compression have long since lapsed. 3) The free software to encode files into DjVu does NOT have anywhere near as good an implementation of JB2 as the commercial version, so the compression ratios are NOT the great ones claimed on the DjVu sites. 4) The company that now owns the DjVu technology has withdrawn the commercial versions from distribution. Their web site suggests that it's possible to buy them directly, but no pricing is given, nor is there on-line ordering. The old prices were quite high as compared to Acrobat. 5) PDF format is well documented, and there are MANY tools for dealing with it in various ways. For DjVu, there's not much. DjVu does have one major advantage for web access, which is that it is better for online browsing, *if* the user already has a viewer application installed. In my opinion, even if there is a slight technical advantage to JB2 and DjVu, it is outweighed by the disadvantages I've listed above. > I think Acrobat 5 may also have JBIG2 compression, though earlier > versions didn't, A recent version of the PDF file format added JBIG compression, but I'm not sure about JBIG2. I would avoid both and stick to G4. From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Jan 16 02:58:25 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: OT: Maxtor drive goes under In-Reply-To: References: <200301160533.VAA12504@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <32994.64.169.63.74.1042705736.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Sellam wrote: > Let me know if you need suggestions for a data recovery place. There is > one local that I have used several times, and they have a better than > 50% track record with being able to recover my data. You had to use them more than once?! Didn't you learn the first time? From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Thu Jan 16 03:02:49 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? Message-ID: Please see my point-by-point comments below... Cheers! Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, TX; USA Phone (210) 592-3110, Fax (210) 592-2048 edward.tillman@valero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of JP Hindin > > Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 10:08 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? > > > > On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > Right away, I see several benefits: > > - Members can participate from any computer with a web browser. Even > lynx. > And right now members can use any eMail client, even elm or > mutt... They're just as common, right? > [Tillman, Edward] Web browsers are slower, crankier, and more of a hassle than any email client, including the older ones... > > - Anonymity and privacy can be more well-respected. The 'sender' of a > > post is your username, not your email address. A system can be > It surely can't be hard to have the mailing list archival software munge > eMail addresses... It seems to be doing it now okay. Where's the problem? > [Tillman, Edward] If the person really wants that kind of privacy, why is he/she here? From my admittedly short-lived perspective, this list is a rather comfortable coming-together of professionals and hobbyists, experts and laymen who like what they do, and want to share their information and resources openly. Putting it all behind the proverbial firewall would most assuredly kill it. > > - There's no worry about HTML, attachments, wierd character sets, > spam, > > virii, or cctech moderation delay. > You can't attach eMails to the list can you? (How do you attach a worm > therefore?). As for HTML and character sets, its a small inconvenience > honestly - not that many posters use it, after all. > [Tillman, Edward] Moderation delay *can* be a good thing. What's the issue? > > - Your inbox receives less clutter. You spend less bandwidth on mail. > Instead you spend it on all the extra HTML markup on web page posts? > [Tillman, Edward] If folks want less clutter in their inboxes, they can darned well configure their email clients with topic folders (rules...), as I do both at home and at work. That way, the list downloads directly to its folder, leaves my inboxes clean, and is in a tight package when I'm ready to read it... Almost all email clients, regardless of age, allow that. > > - It scales well as more members join and start posting. > [Tillman, Edward] As an email list, directly configured into user defined topic folders, this isn't even an issue. > With a fine MTA (qmail anyone?) you can do alright, but I agree, a slick > mod_perl style web interface probably scales "better". > However, as my friend always used to say, when we are so logged with > traffic that we have scaling issues - well that will be a good day indeed > to know we are that popular, and dealing with it will be a joy. > (He was a Buddhist, what can I say) > [Tillman, Edward] Buddist, huh? Maybe that's why all this is working so well...? (snickers!, smiles!) > > - Features you want can be added in code, quickly. The current setup > is > > great for turn-key mailing lists and such, but it is tough to > extend. > > What kind of extra features? > [Tillman, Edward] Ditto... (?) > This is just my two cents; I would rather not move to such a style of > list. I think classiccmp is wonderful the way it is. > Feel free to pick bones out of my retort. > [Tillman, Edward] Hehehe... I kow how you feel. Sysops, Admins and Mods always wanna experiment, and sometimes, we even do it right. I discovered a long time ago, to my chagrin when I lost over 100 users on a BBS: If you have a good thing, don't mess with it. > JP > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 4647 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030116/73754d91/attachment.bin From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jan 16 03:24:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? Message-ID: <20030116092657.98594.qmail@web21107.mail.yahoo.com> > What is your opinion? Let's answer this one in-list, please. on the car front, I go through www.triumphstag.net which was initially set up as a web interface to the mailing list, but has slowly evolved into something more like what you describe for classiccmp. sounds like that's the sort of thing you'd need as the mailing list is still the primary means of communication but the website adds the registry, 'for sale' list and other odds and ends. The web interface to the mail gateway does have the odd problem now and then, with some posts occasionally turning up twice - drop Dave (who runs the site) an email as he should be able to shed some more light as to why! I think I'd still use the classiccmp mailing list for emails, but it'd be nice to have somewhere to store information (as mentioned in another post to this list) and be able to search archives etc. by the way, I'm never seen all the HTML and base64 junk on the Stag list that seems to come through to classiccmp - it must be filtered out somehow in which case it'd seem sensible to look into how to do that for this list! :-) (and if you could filter out my yahoo automatically-added .sig that's be good too ;-) cheers Jules __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 16 03:28:11 2003 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: SV: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay) Message-ID: I must be due for finding something damned cool then, since I gave my -2065 to Eric as I couldn't rescue it... No way would I let that hit the dumpster! Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 16 03:33:01 2003 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: Utter eBay Madness (was help w/pricing) Message-ID: >Would that be traction or stationary ? > Rich Stephenson Don't leave out steam engines as in steam locomotives, railroad equipment... Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jan 16 03:38:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn Message-ID: <20030116093822.67136.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> > > ARM Evaluation Kit - yep - that's the one. I do have various discs and > I can copy the six disks for you, but as I mentioned in previous post, my > Disc 1 has a corrupt track. is there some sort of ftp site or something for BBC stuff that disk images could go on? It'd be nice if they were archived somewhere so they (hopefully) won't get lost! how big is a track? trying every possible permutation of bytes you'll get a working disk eventually ;-) > Most of the Acorn add-ons came in the same housing. All the Second > Processors (6502, Z80, 32016) and the Universal Second Processor box (so > you could use Master Series upgrades like a Turbo, Master 512 80186 CoPro, > or the Scientific), Teletext Adaptor, Prestel Adaptor, IEEE Interface, and > probably others. hmm, the Z80 and IEEE units both ring bells - could have been either one of those (or both). I'm feeling a little motivated to wade through all my junk and see what I have got now, plus have a look at the serial number of the ARM box... > :-) In my earlier reply, I was thinking of rather older Ferranti > computers. At least a decade older, maybe two... ha ha - thought you probably were. I don't know much about the history of Ferranti unfortunately. cheers Jules __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From avickers at solutionengineers.com Thu Jan 16 04:13:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: <1916458036.20030115204131@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030116094533.017d4088@slave> At 02:41 16/01/2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: >In my quest to cover every aspect, to think about every permutation of what >ClassicCmp *could* be in the future, I have yet another question to ask >ClassicCmp subscribers: What if ClassicCmp were a weblog, in the style of >Slashdot or Kuro5hin? In a word: Bleuch. I've used all kinds of elecronic comms in my past, from BBS, Usenet, mailing lists & web boards. IMHO, by far the best (in terms of threading, bandwidth, etc.) has been Usenet. Therefore, if ClassicCmp was to change at all, I'd prefer it to move to a Netnews server. However, I'd be more happy if it didn't move at all... There's been plenty of "no!!!" arguments here already, and mention has been made of a dual interface (blog + mailing list) - and the latter is the one I'd favour. By all means implement a blog, but make it an "as well as" rather than "instead of". This would be useful to me, since I am periodically away from my main computer (onto which all my e-mail arrives) for several days at a time. Until I pull my finger out & get my own internal mail server available to me, only client computers on my internal network can pull mail from it, so when I'm away I don't get classiccmp - and three other mailing list's - e-mails. So when away, I'd use the blog. The one thing mailing lists don't do (or do well if they do do it) is threading. Most e-mail clients wouldn't be able to make head nor tail of it anyway. One of the few things that cheeses me off about ClassicCmp is situations like last night - suddenly there's a whole scree of messages waiting, and I've no idea what is in reply to what, unless some decent quoting is involved. And I'm as guilty of that as anyone - Eudora, bless it's cotton socks, sticks "At [time/date], you wrote:" whenever I quote a message, which means I manually have to go put the name of the person I'm replying to in there, and I frequently forget. >What is your opinion? Let's answer this one in-list, please. IMHO: By all means implement a blog, but don't remove or change the existing e-mail interface - or, rather, by all means change it, but please make those changes totally transparent to the user. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Jan 16 05:21:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: Octane comes from October (WasRichard Crandall just cancelled a payment to you) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3E26A4C4.24969.67243CAE@localhost> > Likely just another case of Germans doing something better (IMHO), much like > DIN versus SAE horsepower. I did know about the R+M/2 method for American > gas, and you can get 100 octane here, just not easily in my state.. In > California, some 76 stations sell 100 octane. I dont know. The pump number is as relevant as MOZ or ROZ in itself. Since MOZ and ROZ are not numerical connected, using (R+M)/2 has a valid point to give a guideline. It's just important to know the different metric when traveling with your own car to foreign places. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Jan 16 05:29:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: Octane comes from October (WasRichard Crandall just cancelled a payment to you) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030115132642.00a20520@pop-server.socal.rr.com> References: Message-ID: <3E26A6AD.15444.672BB2A7@localhost> > > In California, some 76 stations sell 100 octane. > All the airports do, just don't taxi your car too far into the runway and > 90% of the time they fill you up no questions asked. You mean like this poor slob: http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin2002-11.html (A taxi driver in rio got turned over by a jet plane exhaust). Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From tim.myers at protasis.co.uk Thu Jan 16 05:43:00 2003 From: tim.myers at protasis.co.uk (Tim Myers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: Need to get hold of Jim Austin Message-ID: <001601c2bd54$dfd388c0$0201000a@thornton.protasis.co.uk> Could Jim Austin please drop me a line re: HP 1000 Lab Automation Systems. Tim. From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Thu Jan 16 05:48:01 2003 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: <200301160741.CAA29130@conman.org> References: <14117590023.20030115234703@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030116224511.02351dc8@mail.vsm.com.au> At 02:41 AM 16/01/2003 -0500, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > Here's a really radical idea: use a Wiki. Check out > > http://c2.com/cgi/wiki > > for an idea of what a WikiWikiWeb is like. Quite dynamic, purely text >driven (so far, all the Wiki's I've seen have been primarily text based) and >very open to every one (and that's one of the things that scares most >people). > > Other than that, I still prefer email. e-mail is much better in that you can do it off-line. Whilst most of time I'm Internet connected, sometimes it's nice to download a pile of e-mail and escape to the beach and read it off line. In my case, escape means no phone, ergo no Internet. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 16 05:52:01 2003 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: Need to get hold of Jim Austin Message-ID: I'd be interested in hearing about HP 1000 Lab Automation systems as well, since my HP-1000E (2113E) was originally part of of.. 3353E I believe. Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From tim.myers at protasis.co.uk Thu Jan 16 05:56:03 2003 From: tim.myers at protasis.co.uk (Tim Myers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: DEC PDT-11/150 Message-ID: <001701c2bd55$0b4f4750$0201000a@thornton.protasis.co.uk> I'm having to get rid of my collection due to losing the space it's housed in. The PDP-11/73s have already gone on Ebay, as has the Transputer kit. Next to go is my PDT11/150, you can find it here http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=23016 11053&rd=1. I never got round to playing with this machine, and I know very little about it, I hope someone can give it a good home. Tim. From foxvideo at wincom.net Thu Jan 16 06:01:01 2003 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: OT: Maxtor drive goes under In-Reply-To: <200301160533.VAA12504@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030116065911.00b1be78@mail.wincom.net> At 09:33 PM 15/01/2003 -0800, you wrote: >I believe Sellam was cursing at a Maxtor drive a couple months back, and >now I know why. > >Sorry for the OT -- just looking for any desperation suggestions before I >make a new hard drive platter wall clock. > >-- >----------------------------- personal page: >http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * > ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu >-- Son, God's going to use you. Until He does, take this pill. -- Mark >Lowry -- I would suggest you do a search for Tech Republic, "200 Ways to Start a Hard Drive". Good luck. Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com From charlesmorris at direcway.com Thu Jan 16 07:43:42 2003 From: charlesmorris at direcway.com (Charles) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: Still no action (PDP-8/L repair) In-Reply-To: <20030116043317.38878.22517.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20030116043317.38878.22517.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jan 2003 22:33:17 -0600, you wrote: >> Shouldn't be too hard to find >>since it's doing nothing. If it had flaky bits or words or pages, >>different story, but absolutely dead can only be a few things. > >Ya, like a broken core sense wire! Fortunately that is not the case. All 64 X, 64 Y, sense and inhibit lines have the correct resistance. I found fairly quickly that B MEM ENABLE was leaving its source but not getting to the core amps. I couldn't find the presumably broken wire on the backplane so I ran a jumper but still no function. (It's normally high all the time, so a disconnected TTL input is usually 1). this is somewhat depressing that the backplane may have reached end-of-life, if bad wirewraps are starting to show up. It is over thirty years old... Now READ and WRITE are pulsing to the selectors. Unfortunately I don't have a current probe to check out the R/W currents and waveforms. Guess I could put a .1 ohm resistor in the line which would give a 32 mv signal on the 320 ma pulse. -Charles From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jan 16 07:50:02 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: HP 2100 cpu plea References: <002701c2bd20$c8183cf0$6501a8c0@az> <1042699025.2159.30.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <016501c2bd66$886c2da0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> > The first computer that I learned to program on was an HP 2114A. Anyone > know where I could locate one (or a 2115 or 2116)? Yes, actually, I know where there is an absolutely pristine mint HP2116 system, totally decked out with every card and option one could ever want. An equally mint ASR33 is attached to it. It's about a 10 minute drive from my house. However, I have tried for years, and the guy won't let go of it. He's not a collector, he just likes to turn it on once in a while to let his grandkids (roughly 7-10 year olds) see all the blinking lights and bang on the '33 keyboard. *sigh* Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From bones at northrock.bm Thu Jan 16 08:24:00 2003 From: bones at northrock.bm (Dennis Eldridge) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: OT: Maxtor drive goes under Message-ID: <001201c2bd6b$472802b0$0149030a@mohg.com> Interesting problem. I remember when I was fixing IBM PC's back in the mists of time we opened up an old 5MB Seagate drive and managed to get it spinning - with our fingers! It continued working quite reliably thereafter for quite some time, IIRC. However, there was another drive we tried that one, but it turned out it had suffered the worst drive crash in history - the RW head was literally *buried* in the disk, as if someone had taken a hammer to it. But it was a completely sealed unit beforehand. If you're desperate, you may try prying it open and twigging the platters. But it may well be more than just the stickies - my experience of late has been that drives are much better protected from that occurrance. Best of luck with that! Dennis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030116/f6e955a1/attachment.html From cb at mythtech.net Thu Jan 16 09:07:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: Mac TV Message-ID: >So I should offer the guy something like 10 bucks for it and then offer it >to the list for like 30 or, that way I can make some money to send to VISA >and someone who loves Macs will be happy and it won't get junked, in other >words. Please don't flame me for wanting to profit, but I'm seriously broke >and need to pay Chris Kennedy/Visa/my parents/go to college/get gas/fix my >power steering/pay J. Darren Petersen/etc. I think a $20 profit is fair, as >I already spent time finding it, gas getting there, and would spend money >obtaining it as well. Thoughts? Yes... if you can snag it for $10, and small profit is worth you time, then by all means, do it. And if it works and/or is relatively complete, let me know... I'll buy it from you. My overall point before wasn't that you should NOT buy one, just that you should not pay a high price expecting that you will get an even higher price for it later... but if you can get it cheap (like $10), you can be assured you will get some kind of profit on it. There is nothing wrong with making a profit on things... I just didn't want you to get burned thinking that the MacTV was going to get Lisa 1 like prices, and so you ran out and paid $100 for one expecting to resell it for $1,000. -chris From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Jan 16 09:12:01 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: How about a telnet based BBS? They're trivial to set up and if you check out ns2.simpits.org (just telnet to it), you can check out my native port of a 12 year old (classic!) BBS program. You can even pick your connection baud rate. g. From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jan 16 09:17:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? References: <200301160334.WAA23043@parse.com> Message-ID: <003301c2bd72$3f3d5260$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Nah, nix the blog idea. Heck, I'm wanting to go the other direction, and make the mailing list archives searchable via email! --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From cb at mythtech.net Thu Jan 16 09:21:06 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: Mac TV Message-ID: >Just out of interest, can a Mac TV output PAL video and operate off 230V >(UK >mains voltage)? I'd love to get one (and get it to do something useful), >but >they don't seem to have appeared in the UK market yet. >OTOH, I *do* have a VCR that can operate as an NTSC->PAL converter... I can't say for 100% sure, but I would say that most likely, yes, it will work. Most Mac's could handle dual power IIRC (either auto detecting, or via a switch on the power supply), and Apple's other TV Tuner cards can input NTSC, PAL, and SECAM, you just select which one you want in a preference for the TV Viewer application. So I would guess the MacTV will do it as well. You will need a connector to convert from a screw on F connector, to a PAL connector, but that should be easy to come by. But, a note, you ask can it OUTPUT PAL, if you really mean output, like use the tuner in the MacTV, and run it to a VCR or another TV, then the answer may be no, as I don't think the MacTV output anything. You connected the antenna or cable to the Mac, and watched TV directly on the Mac screen. You could toggle between TV viewing or Mac (and IIRC, watch TV in a 1/4 size screen on the Mac desktop as well). But all viewing was done directly on the Mac itself. -chris From kentborg at borg.org Thu Jan 16 09:53:01 2003 From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: OT: Maxtor drive goes under In-Reply-To: <200301160533.VAA12504@stockholm.ptloma.edu>; from spectre@stockholm.ptloma.edu on Wed, Jan 15, 2003 at 09:33:34PM -0800 References: <200301160533.VAA12504@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <20030116105552.A22370@borg.org> On Wed, Jan 15, 2003 at 09:33:34PM -0800, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > I believe Sellam was cursing at a Maxtor drive a couple months back, > and now I know why. I had a fairy new Maxtor 3.5" 60GB drive die recently. I am running Linux and so couldn't easily run Maxtor's MS Windows-only diagnostic software, but their web system gave me an RMA number anyway, and shortly after sending the old one in I got a replacement back. It seems to work. As for recovering data, I lost nothing. (And I hadn't done a backup.) This is because I was running software raid 1. There was a DMA timeout message in a log file, but the computer kept on running. In fact, had I not set up a script to check whether a drive died and send me an e-mail, I might not have noticed to this day that the drive had died. As for why it died, I am wondering whether I had something to do with it. It died *while* I was burning a CD-ROM. The CD-ROM drive was on the same IDE controller as the hard drive that died. The only thing I did different from previous times I have burned CDs was I told the CD to go faster. (I don't do that any more.) I am wondering whether the CD hiccoughed some too-high voltage back out the ribbon cable. The drive died in a "kinda work for a while"-mode. -kb, the Kent who is both impressed and a bit spooked that the drive failed while he was sitting at the computer and he never noticed a thing. From alhartman at yahoo.com Thu Jan 16 09:58:01 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: OT: paging MAC expert(s) --- What's a Performa In-Reply-To: <20030116035422.38149.38535.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030116155714.92956.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com> > > I have a 200Mhz 6400 tower. Pretty nice machine, > except that it lacks > > ethernet. I've got it running MacOS 8.0, and until > recently, I also had BeOS > > on it. Runs both really well. Has a built in > subwoofer for incredibly rich > > sound. My main complaint: Other than adding RAM or > PCI cards, upgrades are > > nearly impossible with that impenetrable case. There was a recent article in MacAddict that a model of PCI Ethernet Cards from D-Link has MacOS 9/X drivers. I've bought several and they work great! And they are 10/100... Model number is DFE-530TX+, I've bought them for under $20.00US Give it a go! Regards, Al Hartman (Macintosh Emulation List Host) http://www.topica.com/lists/MacEmuList Enlightenment means taking full responsibility for your life. - William Blake __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jan 16 10:26:37 2003 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: PDP-12 on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 02:26 PM, William Donzelli wrote: >> DECnuts. :-) Am I the only one who burst into hysterical laughter >> upon reading that? > > It is better than Big Blue Balls. > > (that is the feeling one gets when no cool old IBM stuff hasn't come > into > the collection lately) *snort*...This is hilarious! -Dave -- Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols From bones at northrock.bm Thu Jan 16 10:39:00 2003 From: bones at northrock.bm (Dennis Eldridge) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: Maxtor drive goes under Message-ID: <002401c2bd7d$7fbe8830$0149030a@mohg.com> It's always fascinated me how people have such strong opinions of one particular drive manufacturer over another. Commonly one will say that they have a certain make of drive and it's never failed them and they've tried this other one and they're dying left and right, etc. ad nauseum. I come at this issue from the perspective of a field service engineer and subsequently independant consultant. The fact is that, particularly with IDE drives, no matter the manufacturer, it's purely the luck of the draw whether one is blessed with a good production run. I get the feeling that, to cut costs, most manufacturers have the QC people working a couple of days a week, and even then they're not exactly the best paid position in the sweatshop. The same goes for cars - you just find the one you're psychologically comfortable with. No bearing on statistical reality, but to the buyer that manufacturer's product will always be superior, and faults will be more tolerable than those of the manufacturer who's product is "in the doghouse" for whatever reason. As for Dell going the way of PacBell, etc., well I can only say we've got what we asked for. We wanted cheap computing, we got cheap computing. If they raised their standards and correspondingly their prices, we'd run like heck to the next guy who offered their system for a couple of quid less. If you want a rock-solid system with total manufacturer's support and guaranteed uptime and all that jazz, you'd have to shell out over $50,000 plus support contracts, etc. Just like in the old days of some of the larger systems we discuss on this forum. Just my $12.34 (Like everything else here in Bermuda, my opinion has to be shipped here and customs duty paid ). With apologies for the rant, Dennis (not Miller :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030116/000693d0/attachment.html From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jan 16 10:53:01 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: HP 2100 cpu plea References: <002701c2bd20$c8183cf0$6501a8c0@az> <1042699025.2159.30.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> <016501c2bd66$886c2da0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3E26E399.4030809@jetnet.ab.ca> Jay West wrote: >>The first computer that I learned to program on was an HP 2114A. Anyone >>know where I could locate one (or a 2115 or 2116)? > > > Yes, actually, I know where there is an absolutely pristine mint HP2116 > system, totally decked out with every card and option one could ever want. > An equally mint ASR33 is attached to it. It's about a 10 minute drive from > my house. > > However, I have tried for years, and the guy won't let go of it. He's not a > collector, he just likes to turn it on once in a while to let his grandkids > (roughly 7-10 year olds) see all the blinking lights and bang on the '33 > keyboard. *sigh* What and deprive a child from use of a REAL Computer. Ben. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jan 16 11:03:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn Message-ID: <20030116170558.99886.qmail@web21110.mail.yahoo.com> > > ARM Evaluation Kit I just checked - mine's S/N 0184 according to the label where the cable comes out. If that started at 0 I guess they made a few... I found the IEEE 488 interface too, which I also seem to have a polystyrene box for but no cardboard, manuals or disks. Curious. (no S/N or label of any kind on that, and I didn't feel like opening the case. I expect they made thousands of those anyway) No sign of the Z80 box I may of had, but it might be up in the loft. cheers Jules __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Jan 16 11:07:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: Mac TV References: Message-ID: <000d01c2bd82$0f149340$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> chris wrote: >> Just out of interest, can a Mac TV output PAL video and operate off >> 230V (UK >> mains voltage)? I'd love to get one (and get it to do something >> useful), but >> they don't seem to have appeared in the UK market yet. >> OTOH, I *do* have a VCR that can operate as an NTSC->PAL converter... > > I can't say for 100% sure, but I would say that most likely, yes, it > will work. > > Most Mac's could handle dual power IIRC (either auto detecting, or > via a switch on the power supply), and Apple's other TV Tuner cards > can input NTSC, PAL, and SECAM, you just select which one you want in > a preference for the TV Viewer application. So I would guess the > MacTV will do it as well. You will need a connector to convert from a > screw on F connector, to a PAL connector, but that should be easy to > come by. I know for a fact that I could kludge one with some co-ax cable and a few connectors. > But, a note, you ask can it OUTPUT PAL, if you really mean output, > like use the tuner in the MacTV, and run it to a VCR or another TV, > then the answer may be no, as I don't think the MacTV output > anything. You connected the antenna or cable to the Mac, and watched > TV directly on the Mac screen. You could toggle between TV viewing or > Mac (and IIRC, watch TV in a 1/4 size screen on the Mac desktop as > well). But all viewing was done directly on the Mac itself. D'Oh! I thought the Mac TV was a stripped-down Mac with AV in and AV out, in fact I recall seeing something on a website somewhere about a prototype Mac similar to what I have described. It was all-black with a plastic front panel and a metal top cover, not too unlike a Grundig GDS100 "SkyDigibox" digital satellite receiver. IIRC the machine was a Mac with custom boot ROMs, so it wouldn't run Mac OS. IIRC the hardware was near totally custom, too so swapping out bootROMs was not really an option. Oh, and the ROMs were on SIMMs. Again, IIRC... I'd still like a Mac though - Quadra, Powermac, whatever - I've seen my friend's grey G4 (?) Tower running Photoshop at lightning speed and now I want a Mac.. Anything that will run System 7.5.3 (with updates) and is capable of driving a SuperVGA monitor will be fine. Hell, I don't even care if I have to strip the thing to bits to replace the PRAM battery - it all adds to the learning experience :-) Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Jan 16 11:11:01 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn References: <20030116093822.67136.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002101c2bd82$b2d69280$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Jules Richardson wrote: >>> ARM Evaluation Kit - yep - that's the one. I do have various discs >>> and >> I can copy the six disks for you, but as I mentioned in previous >> post, my Disc 1 has a corrupt track. > > is there some sort of ftp site or something for BBC stuff that disk > images could go on? It'd be nice if they were archived somewhere so > they (hopefully) won't get lost! There's "The BBC Lives!", search Google for it and you'll find it. Then again, scrap the full search, just hit "I'm Feeling Lucky". Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From avickers at solutionengineers.com Thu Jan 16 11:14:12 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:31 2005 Subject: Caption Competition! (bit OT) Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030116170654.00b5e800@slave> See: http://helmies.org.uk/images/cap_comp.jpg Then come up with an amusing/apposite caption :) Bonus points for anyone who can identify the make/model of machine she's actually using. HINT: this photo was published circa. 1983, and is almost certainly British. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From mattis at mattisborgen.org Thu Jan 16 11:26:00 2003 From: mattis at mattisborgen.org (Mattis Lind) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: SV: SV: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay) In-Reply-To: <4142.4.20.168.156.1042679503.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: As the KTH campus was rebuilt a couple of years ago Stacken had to move to new premises, whcih didn't allow big PDP-10. I guess that most people at stacken really wanted to use a little bit more modern computers so they went for VAX and SUN machines. The rumor says that Peter L?thberg www.stupi.se have taken care of them and stored them in a warehouse north of Stockholm. Another rumor tell that at least one of the big 10s was actually shipped from the US.. http://susning.nu/KATIA The picture on this webpage (in swedish) should picture a KA10 at Stacken. I actually think that Peter is sitting in front of the terminal. /Mattis -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fr?n: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]F?r Eric Smith Skickat: den 16 januari 2003 02:12 Till: cctalk@classiccmp.org ?mne: Re: SV: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay) > Here's a pic: http://www.stacken.kth.se/~thn/FullScale/f3-2.jpg The frontmost six cabinets of the main row of tall cabinets are two KI10 CPUs. The remaining cabinets in that line are probably core memory and peripheral controllers. No KA10 in evidence. Does anyone know whether they still actually have these machines? From dlw at trailingedge.com Thu Jan 16 11:30:01 2003 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: PDP-11/60 available for pickup in Houston Message-ID: <3E26992E.3008.BED7A419@localhost> I have a PDP 11/60 available in Houston. It is untested and in an unknown state. There are just the two main components out of the cabinet with cards (I don't know what all cards are in there) and the two power supply units. Also have a front panel control. I'm being force to get rid of these as soon as possible. If nobody wants them I'll have to take it to the scrapper. Hopefully there is someone out there that can take these and make good use of them. ----- "If you want to see it, see into it directly; but when you stop to think about it, it is altogether missed." "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, then and only then can we know things as they are." David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From tcallawa at redhat.com Thu Jan 16 11:38:01 2003 From: tcallawa at redhat.com (Tom 'spot' Callaway) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: Caption Competition! (bit OT) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030116170654.00b5e800@slave> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030116170654.00b5e800@slave> Message-ID: <1042738914.28476.93.camel@zorak.rdu.redhat.com> On Thu, 2003-01-16 at 12:12, Adrian Vickers wrote: > See: > > http://helmies.org.uk/images/cap_comp.jpg > > > Then come up with an amusing/apposite caption :) "How about Global Thermonuclear War?" ~spot --- Tom "spot" Callaway (SAIR LCA, RHCE) GPG: D786 8B22 D9DB 1F8B 4AB7 448E 3C5E 99AD 9305 4260 Red Hat Sales Engineer :: http://www.redhat.com Aurora SPARC Linux Project Leader :: http://www.auroralinux.org The words and opinions reflected in this message do not necessarily reflect those of my employer, Red Hat, or my project, Aurora SPARC Linux and belong solely to me. Save Firefly! :: http://www.fireflysupport.com/ :: Keep Flying! From P.Gebhardt at gmx.de Thu Jan 16 11:42:35 2003 From: P.Gebhardt at gmx.de (P.Gebhardt@gmx.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: Harddrive collectors References: Message-ID: <20836.1042738996@www45.gmx.net> Hi all, I subscribed to the list half a year ago, but I think I never told you what I collect. I'm a guy (20) from Germany and what I like is collecting old harddrives. Strange aeh ? You certainly will agree when I tell you what a friend told me (DEC-fanatic guy): " Harddives are a part of computers, I need them for example to upgrade old mainframes, but I wouldn't just collect them!" ...I purchased a PDP11/23 to test my SMD-drives (you remember my mails: "PDP11?/23 and QD32" ?). Rescueing old drives has become a task for me. A webpage containing all the disks WITH photos is my next plan, so that people, who find old drives can refer to the photos. So don't be surprised if my emails refer to drives in most cases. Are there other harddrive collector in this forum ? By the way, I have manuals for disk drives of the Trident Series (Century Data Systems). If anyone needs them , please let me know. I don't have a lot of time at the moment but scanning the docs will be done in the coming months. Pierre > On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Brian Chase wrote: > > > I don't know; $5000 is a lot of money. That sucks. I don't recognize the > > new high bidder's name at all. The chances are that we'll never see > > copies of those docs now. > > Don't be so dour. System Source has been building a computer museum for > years now (mostly through eBay it would seem). > > Check out their website: > > http://www.syssrc.com/html/museum/index.html > > I believe they used to have the collection on public display from their > office. > > They're doing an awesome job documenting all this. I'll bet if you > inquired they would be willing to make copies of the documenation, or scan > it. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * > -- +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++ NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr f?r 1 ct/ Min. surfen! From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Jan 16 11:50:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: Maxtor drive goes under Message-ID: <200301161753.JAA20973@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Dennis Eldridge" > >It's always fascinated me how people have such strong opinions of one particular drive manufacturer over another. Commonly one will say that they have a certain make of drive and it's never failed them and they've tried this other one and they're dying left and right, etc. ad nauseum. > >I come at this issue from the perspective of a field service engineer and subsequently independant consultant. The fact is that, particularly with IDE drives, no matter the manufacturer, it's purely the luck of the draw whether one is blessed with a good production run. I get the feeling that, to cut costs, Hi I would say it is true in general that the luck of the draw is the case but having worked for a computer manufacture, I can tell you that at least one manufacture produced a line of drives that were pure junk. Most of the drives would not last a 36 hour running period ( well, not most but about 30% ). This is way beyond luck of the draw. Being a system manufacture, we worked with the drive manufacture on resolving the problem. It was never resolved to any useful level. We finally switched manufactures but it cost us a lot. The fact is that there are lemons out there, by design. The Segate 225's had a stiction problem that wasn't solved until the end of that products line. The drive we were having problems with were 2 and 4 gig drives. These had a servo information corruption problem ( that by design would always fail over time ). Dwight most manufacturers have the QC people working a couple of days a week, and even then they're not exactly the best paid position in the sweatshop. The same goes for cars - you just find the one you're psychologically comfortable with. No bearing on statistical reality, but to the buyer that manufacturer's product will always be superior, and faults will be more tolerable than those of the manufacturer who's product is "in the doghouse" for whatever reason. > >As for Dell going the way of PacBell, etc., well I can only say we've got what we asked for. We wanted cheap computing, we got cheap computing. If they raised their standards and correspondingly their prices, we'd run like heck to the next guy who offered their system for a couple of quid less. If you want a rock-solid system with total manufacturer's support and guaranteed uptime and all that jazz, you'd have to shell out over $50,000 plus support contracts, etc. Just like in the old days of some of the larger systems we discuss on this forum. Just my $12.34 (Like everything else here in Bermuda, my opinion has to be shipped here and customs duty paid ). > >With apologies for the rant, > >Dennis (not Miller :-) From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 16 12:00:08 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: So the whores that are beholden to corporate interest...er, I mean the United States Congress has decided that copyrights in the US should be extended another 20 years beyond the limits they were set at, and those mental miscreants that put an ex-Coke junkie in the White House...er, I mean the US Supreme Court has upheld these extensions, saying it is Congress' duty to determine copyright lengths. So this means that, for instance, the software for Apple ][, Commodore 64, Atari 800, and TRS-80 (to name but a few platforms) will not be public domain until something like 2075, when computers as we know them today will not even exist. This makes so much sense that I just had an aneurysm. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Jan 16 12:05:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: Caption Competition! (bit OT) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030116170654.00b5e800@slave> Message-ID: <3E27033D.8533.6895470B@localhost> > http://helmies.org.uk/images/cap_comp.jpg > Then come up with an amusing/apposite caption :) > Bonus points for anyone who can identify the make/model of machine she's > actually using. HINT: this photo was published circa. 1983, and is almost > certainly British. Hmm. To me the screen layout looks quite like a Teletext page. I have no idea how this service was called in the UK (The name Viewtext pops up, but I'm not shure). These are data pages, transmitted via 'invisible' lines, 'between' or 'below' the picture (As a bunch of other information also is). There are 1000 addressable main pages, transmitted in a continuos stream. THe display controler waits just for the selected page, and every time it comes around the diplay memory is refeshed. Due this behaviour the system is also used to produce captions, by displaying pages with just 2-3 lines of text and a transparent background. Basicly every TV set is equipped with a decoder. There are nifty controlers around (or at least have been, back when TV Chipsets where less integrated), which can be used for home projects. Well, my guess is based on the screen layout. Especialy because of the top line, which is the status line, holding the actual page, and the right now passing page in the upper left, channel ID, date and time in the upper right. Both are not part of the page, but inserted from the controller - the later ones are taken from a different line which hold date and time. In the 80s, it was the cheapest way to get an atomic clock for your computer, just decode the according line and you got a perfect usable ASCII string :) Since this information is updated every picture (25 times a second) some comercial stations violate the standard by sending scrolling advertisements instead of the time. It may capture the readers eye, but I hate it. Anyway, the important fact is that it is impossible to supress these fields (or it would at least require a custom controller). Now, back to the picture, what realy puzzles me is the keyboard. The service is strict one way, you could only select a page, and a regular remote is all you need. Well, there have been ideas to make it some kind of interactive media by using page sequences, where the remote can be used to jump to a set of 4 predefined follow ups, coloured keys are usualy used for that. So TV stations could offer simple multiple coice games, also a 'unhide' command is available (and usualy assigned to another button) to allot Question/answer games, where the user would press the unhide button to reveal the answer. Then there has been an atempt to transform it into a real online media, where the user would send his request via a low data rate connection on his phone, and his local cable company would insert the requested page. Quite similar as some satelite internet services do today. It died after some proof of concept installations, since the data transmission is in band and part of the TV signal supplied by the channel, and not the cable company. No, the keyboard realy puzzles me. Of course it could be the British equivalent of our (CEPT based BTx system, a early online service to be used on a 1200/75 connection with pages, made in a way to be displayed on you telly. But then the picture layout would be quite different. That service hat a quite more apropriate set of graphic elements. Of course it could always be a mockup for such an online service, using a Teletext page ... Of course Gruss H. P.S.: For the caption, I'd say Loveletters, a full lenght movie after Rosamunde Pilcher :) -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 16 12:05:33 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: IBM 5322 In-Reply-To: <002901c2bd37$869ca920$513bcd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > The numbers indicate internal diagnostic tests. Here's what the numbers > stand for: > > 01 CPU > 02 ROS > 03 Reserved > 04 R/W Storage > 05-07 CRT Controller > 08 Page registers > 09-19 ROS installed on planar board > 1A-29 Feature ROS installed on I/O cards > 2A-30 R/W Storage > 31 R/W Storage Page Register > 32 DMA Page Register > 33 Interrupt Controller > 34 Internal Timer > 35 Keyboard > 36 Printer Attachment > 37 Diagnose Command to Printer > 38 Diskette Attachment > 39 +24 Volts to internal diskette > 3A Second printer attachment > 3B Diagnose CMD to Second Printer > 3C Internal Wrap of Serial Interface Adapter > 3D Open link to a 5247 [hard disk] > 3E Check 5247 Disk unit for "ready" status > FD System Diskette installation Awesome! Thanks for typing that up. Also, that is a pretty cool way to know how your system is doing when you boot it up. > According to the manual, the inverse video on the 35 means that you have > a "jammed down key" that is being detected on startup. This may well be > causing the "41". This may be caused by the broken 0 key on the numeric keypad. The keycap is missing and the spring is hanging out the tube that the key used to be mounted upon. At any rate I think you are right that the 4A is an artifact of the 35. > The computer boots to BASIC, which is the OS. Try typing in a few lines > when you get the PROC START screen. I have manuals. I also have You mean instead of PROC START I can type something like: 10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD" ? > customer support disk, learning disk, etc. if you need copies. I also > have an extra planar board (condition unknown) if you think it's a > problem. I don't think I have the Customer Support Functions disk so, yes, a copy would be quite welcome. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Thu Jan 16 12:07:01 2003 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: Caption Competition! (bit OT) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030116170654.00b5e800@slave> Message-ID: Damn! I wish I hadn't spent all that money on the big TV... Then I could afford a desk and chair. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Adrian Vickers > Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 12:12 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Caption Competition! (bit OT) > > > See: > > http://helmies.org.uk/images/cap_comp.jpg > > > Then come up with an amusing/apposite caption :) > > Bonus points for anyone who can identify the make/model of machine she's > actually using. HINT: this photo was published circa. 1983, and is almost > certainly British. > -- > Cheers, Ade. > Be where it's at, B-Racing! > http://b-racing.com > From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 16 12:08:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: IBM 5322 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, Will Jennings wrote: > Here, in the future, use the IBM US Sales Manual: > http://www2.ibmlink.ibm.com/cgi-bin/master?xh=6IoY5YcEq*i*pR1USenGnN9332&request=salesmanual&parms=&xfr=N > > Yes, its a NASTY looking address, but using that took me .23 seconds to find > out the 5322 is a Datamaster CPU.. but then I scrolled down and the beast > had been ID'ed. I put 5322 in the "Product Number" field and all I got was: IBM Sales Manual (US) Search results All Product Descriptions - No Documents Found Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 16 12:20:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: OT: Maxtor drive goes under In-Reply-To: <32994.64.169.63.74.1042705736.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > Sellam wrote: > > Let me know if you need suggestions for a data recovery place. There is > > one local that I have used several times, and they have a better than > > 50% track record with being able to recover my data. > > You had to use them more than once?! Didn't you learn the first time? I think I'm finally getting around to learning after about the 5th ;) Ok, 4 were company related and one was personal. Two were hard drives running servers at work that just crashed spontaneously. We had backups, and did backups fairly regularly (we had to, lots of telephone billing data) but some work I had done since the previous backup (about a week prior) did not get backed up. Plus it would have been a whole lot easier to just get the drive recovered. It was unsuccessful. I eventually re-wrote the program I lost (not a huge project). One was a laptop hard drive. I was in the process of installing Windows 98 or something and the installation completely hosed my machine. My ire for Bill Gates got the best of me and I smacked my laptop a few times, hoping Gates would feel it. Hard drive crash. Oh well. I had backups of all the important stuff (source code). But at any rate I needed it recovered. It was successful. One was my hard drive on my machine at home. I had not been good at keeping backups, but most important data was backed up (Quicken info). It was not successfull recovered. My last fiasco was a virus that ate my filesystem. I recovered most important files but lost all my saved/sent e-mail in one of my personal accounts from December 2000 through the crash date (Spring of last year) plus a bunch of digital photos. Not a huge bummer but it sucks none the less. And the time it wasted... After Cameron's message last night I finally got my backups done. Three CDs full of crap. I plan to do a backup every week, and at some point I will revisit my automated backup software that I've been writing. Unless someone has a suggestion for something that's very easy to use and either dumps backup data to a server or a ZIP disk or something removeable. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 16 12:26:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: HP 2100 cpu plea In-Reply-To: <016501c2bd66$886c2da0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, Jay West wrote: > Yes, actually, I know where there is an absolutely pristine mint HP2116 > system, totally decked out with every card and option one could ever > want. An equally mint ASR33 is attached to it. It's about a 10 minute > drive from my house. > > However, I have tried for years, and the guy won't let go of it. He's > not a collector, he just likes to turn it on once in a while to let his > grandkids (roughly 7-10 year olds) see all the blinking lights and bang > on the '33 keyboard. *sigh* You just haven't offered him enough $$$ I guess. Also, throw into the deal that he and his grandkids can come over anytime to bang on the keys. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 16 12:31:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: Maxtor drive goes under In-Reply-To: <002401c2bd7d$7fbe8830$0149030a@mohg.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, Dennis Eldridge wrote: > It's always fascinated me how people have such strong opinions of one > particular drive manufacturer over another. Commonly one will say that > they have a certain make of drive and it's never failed them and they've > tried this other one and they're dying left and right, etc. ad nauseum. Me too. I've used just about every manufacturer of hard drive out there, and at one time or another I have had a drive of theirs crash. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 16 12:35:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: Caption Competition! (bit OT) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030116170654.00b5e800@slave> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, Adrian Vickers wrote: > See: > > http://helmies.org.uk/images/cap_comp.jpg > > > Then come up with an amusing/apposite caption :) "Oh my, I think my diaphragm is slipping out!" > Bonus points for anyone who can identify the make/model of machine she's > actually using. HINT: this photo was published circa. 1983, and is almost > certainly British. A Memotech MTX512? Nope. Some sort of Acorn? I have no idea. Hey, check out something even funnier: http://helmies.org.uk/ Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jan 16 12:38:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: HP 2100 cpu plea References: Message-ID: <006901c2bd8e$df5831e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Sellam wrote... > You just haven't offered him enough $$$ I guess. Nah, he's probably gotten wind of ebay prices I bet *ROTF* Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 16 12:41:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: Caption Competition! (bit OT) In-Reply-To: <3E27033D.8533.6895470B@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > P.S.: For the caption, I'd say > Loveletters, a full lenght movie after Rosamunde Pilcher :) This is so deliciously German: a humour that only Germans can appreciate ;) I LOVE YOU HANS! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Jan 16 12:55:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: Maxtor drive goes under References: <200301161753.JAA20973@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <003b01c2bd91$62e0c340$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > I would say it is true in general that the luck of the draw is > the case but having worked for a computer manufacture, I can > tell you that at least one manufacture produced a line of drives > that were pure junk. Most of the drives would not last a 36 hour > running period ( well, not most but about 30% ). This is way > beyond luck of the draw. I'm going to take a stab in the dark here and guess that you're talking about Kalok. Their "Octagon" drives were notoriously unreliable. Yes, I have first hand experience of one failing. Yes, I got blamed for it. "You broke our Acorn A310?!?!" "No, I came in this morning, switched it on and it sounded like a washing machine. Oh, and it wouldn't run Pendown" "Nonono, YOU were the last person who touched it, so YOU caused the problem." That particular conversation went downhill from there - the IT manager called the local (and very friendly) Acorn dealer who confirmed that Kalok drives were notorious for failing, etc, etc. And I never did get an apology for that one... > The drive we were having problems > with were 2 and 4 gig drives. These had a servo information > corruption problem ( that by design would always fail over time ). Guess that rules out Kalok then. They bit the big one in 1994, way before 2GB and 4GB drives started appearing... To this day I refuse to touch Kalok drives, not that there's many of them left. And if this bloody Seagate 52520 in my webrouter clunk-clicks once more it's getting swapped out! $DEITY, this thing is almost as loud as the Kalok was when it failed. Speaking of which, has anyone got a Kalok drive in their collection? Dead or alive? Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From bpope at wordstock.com Thu Jan 16 12:56:01 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: [Bit more OT] Sellam is Canadian?!! In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jan 16, 03 10:41:39 am Message-ID: <200301161857.NAA26889@wordstock.com> And thusly Sellam Ismail spake: > > This is so deliciously German: a humour that only Germans can appreciate ^ | Is there some English blood in Sellam??? This Canadian wondors, Bryan From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jan 16 12:57:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: Maxtor drive goes under References: Message-ID: <009901c2bd91$68505d40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I agree, I've had the same experience. High volume users of pc hard drives have told me.. oh, seagate is horrible, they fail all the time, western digital is the best. Then another similar high volume user will say western digital drives fail all the time, but seagate never fails.... No telling. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Thu Jan 16 12:58:00 2003 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: Caption Competition! (bit OT) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030116170654.00b5e800@slave> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030116170654.00b5e800@slave> Message-ID: <62771.62.148.198.97.1042743678.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Adrian Vickers said: > > Then come up with an amusing/apposite caption :) > > Bonus points for anyone who can identify the make/model of machine she's > actually using. HINT: this photo was published circa. 1983, and is almost > certainly British. Oric ? My globally known sense of humour does not scale to situations involving brown curtains. I apologize humbly. -- jht From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Jan 16 13:01:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: OT: Maxtor drive goes under References: Message-ID: <005301c2bd92$21de8020$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Sellam Ismail wrote: > I plan to do a backup every week, and at > some point I will revisit my automated backup software that I've been > writing. Unless someone has a suggestion for something that's very > easy to use and either dumps backup data to a server or a ZIP disk or > something removeable. I've been working on an offline storage system using my webrouter (an old Linux box with a 400MHz K6-II CPU). It's currently pre-pre-alpha and has been assigned the codename "Phoenix-II". The name is mythology - the phoenix was a bird that rose from the ashes of its predecessor. Simple, no? Catch is, the bloody thing keeps falling over and I need to write a server daemon for Linux... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From stanb at dial.pipex.com Thu Jan 16 13:04:01 2003 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: Mac TV In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:09:41 GMT." <000d01c2bd82$0f149340$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <200301161856.SAA18706@citadel.metropolis.local> Hu, "Philip Pemberton" said: > > I'd still like a Mac though - Quadra, Powermac, whatever - I've seen my > friend's grey G4 (?) Tower running Photoshop at lightning speed and now I > want a Mac.. Anything that will run System 7.5.3 (with updates) and is > capable of driving a SuperVGA monitor will be fine. Hell, I don't even care > if I have to strip the thing to bits to replace the PRAM battery - it all > adds to the learning experience :-) Well keep an eye on uk.adverts.computers.mac - quite a few for sale there. Of course there's always epay.... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From msspcva at yahoo.com Thu Jan 16 13:10:01 2003 From: msspcva at yahoo.com (Clayton Frank Helvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030116191322.13958.qmail@web41108.mail.yahoo.com> I thought copyrights were for 100 years? -- Frank --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > So the whores that are beholden to corporate > interest...er, I mean the > United States Congress has decided that copyrights > in the US should be > extended another 20 years beyond the limits they > were set at, and those > mental miscreants that put an ex-Coke junkie in the > White House...er, I > mean the US Supreme Court has upheld these > extensions, saying it is > Congress' duty to determine copyright lengths. > > So this means that, for instance, the software for > Apple ][, Commodore > 64, Atari 800, and TRS-80 (to name but a few > platforms) will not be public > domain until something like 2075, when computers as > we know them today > will not even exist. > > This makes so much sense that I just had an > aneurysm. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail > Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia > at www.VintageTech.com * > ===== = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= Clayton Frank Helvey, President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com ============================================================ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From kentborg at borg.org Thu Jan 16 13:23:01 2003 From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: OT: Maxtor drive goes under In-Reply-To: ; from foo@siconic.com on Thu, Jan 16, 2003 at 10:20:34AM -0800 References: <32994.64.169.63.74.1042705736.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <20030116142635.C22370@borg.org> On Thu, Jan 16, 2003 at 10:20:34AM -0800, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Unless someone has a suggestion for something that's very easy to > use and either dumps backup data to a server or a ZIP disk or > something removeable. I've been thinking about backups of late. In my recent story the disk that died didn't bring any data with it because of being mirrored in a raid 1 array. Cool, but I don't want to get smug. Backups are, in part, for protecting against hardware failure, and raid 1 protects well against a disk dying, but not against the whole box being lost in flood, fire, theft, lightening, etc. That is not complete hardware protection but it is significant. But that's not *all* backups are for: backups are also for "time travel", for example, to help one recover from an errant "rm -rf ~". Raid 1 clearly doesn't solve this problem, but does make a formerly insane approach possible: How about backing up the raid array with itself? Use a (normally not mounted) partition to store historical information about files. I haven't worked out the details of how to do this, but if done it would result in a system that would be safe from the most common sorts of hardware failures (a single disk dying) and software failures (specific files deleted, corrupted, edited inadvisably). The physical loss or destruction of the whole box or a low-level scribbling of the disk (i.g., wildly applied Linux dd command) would still be a risk, but those risks are far less than the risks of a single unprotected disk. For more robustness, if two physically separated computers can talk to each other at decent speeds, maybe they could be mutual backups. That would remove even more risks. Note that using a disk to back a disk (be it the same disk or a diffferent disk) is only sensible as disks get so big that they become very difficult to back up via removabe media and are even difficult to figure out how to fill up! (A 120 GB disk for ~$120? 120 GB is a LOT of space. My ~measly~ 60 GB disks are damn big.) Any know of a good online backup system for Linux that would work as I describe? A simple rsync isn't good enough, I want to be able to go back in time and browse for old files. -kb From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jan 16 13:33:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: Jeffrey Sharp "Re: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog?" (Jan 15, 22:43) References: <200301160309.h0G39dG12297@shell1.aracnet.com> <16013768247.20030115224321@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <10301160838.ZM10811@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 15, 22:43, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Wednesday, January 15, 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > With email I can read CLASSICCMP on anything, with a Web-board, I'd be > > limited to a modern computer. > > Surely anything that can run a mail client can run lynx... Not necessarily. My older Acorn machines can read and send mail but there's no web browser that will run on them. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that's also true of some other older systems that people here might use. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jan 16 13:34:19 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: A couple of Good Finds Today In-Reply-To: "Keys" "A couple of Good Finds Today" (Jan 15, 18:44) References: <02f201c2bcf8$697323e0$e750ef42@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <10301160821.ZM10801@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 15, 18:44, Keys wrote: > At Goodwill I got a book titled BIT BY BIT An Illustrated History of > Computers by Stan Augarten for 25 cents and it has lots of great pictures > and stories in it. That's a good book. I got my copy for 50 pence several years ago. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 16 13:37:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: [Bit more OT] Sellam is Canadian?!! In-Reply-To: <200301161857.NAA26889@wordstock.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, Bryan Pope wrote: > And thusly Sellam Ismail spake: > > > > This is so deliciously German: a humour that only Germans can appreciate > ^ > | > Is there some English blood in Sellam??? > > This Canadian wondors, Perhaps, but I'm not aboot to confess, eh? :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 16 13:39:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: OT: Maxtor drive goes under In-Reply-To: <005301c2bd92$21de8020$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, Philip Pemberton wrote: > I've been working on an offline storage system using my webrouter (an old > Linux box with a 400MHz K6-II CPU). It's currently pre-pre-alpha and has > been assigned the codename "Phoenix-II". The name is mythology - the phoenix > was a bird that rose from the ashes of its predecessor. Simple, no? Catch > is, the bloody thing keeps falling over and I need to write a server daemon > for Linux... Do you up its number everytime it fails? Phoenix-III? Phoenix-IV? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 16 13:41:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20030116191322.13958.qmail@web41108.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, Clayton Frank Helvey wrote: > I thought copyrights were for 100 years? Disney's copyrights were about to expire. They couldn't bear to see anyone else use Mickey Mouse (a Disney rip-off of a prior character that was then in the public domain) in their own creations. They'd rather stifle the public's right to creative works and send our civilization into further decay than lose a dollar. Congress bent over, lubed themselves up, and moaned lovingly, extending copyrights 20 more years on top of whatever the previous limits were as of a year or so ago. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From collison at cnri.reston.va.us Thu Jan 16 13:42:27 2003 From: collison at cnri.reston.va.us (Ron Collison) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: Macro Assembler, Xenix, 8086/8088 Primer, Mac Repair, and early version of DOS Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030116143402.00b64ad0@mailbox.cnri.reston.va.us> Macro Assembler, Xenix, 8086/8088 Primer, Mac Repair, and early version of DOS To those of you who have sent email expressing interest in 1 or more of the above, I have not forgotten - I have not had time to respond, yet - hope to shortly From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Jan 16 13:49:01 2003 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: Maxtor drive goes under Message-ID: In a message dated 1/16/2003 2:00:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, philpem@dsl.pipex.com writes: << 2GB and 4GB drives started appearing... To this day I refuse to touch Kalok drives, not that there's many of them left. And if this bloody Seagate 52520 in my webrouter clunk-clicks once more it's getting swapped out! $DEITY, this thing is almost as loud as the Kalok was when it failed. Speaking of which, has anyone got a Kalok drive in their collection? Dead or alive? >> Ive got one. A 20meg one I think and it worked when it was put away. very noisy though. Looks cheap. From allain at panix.com Thu Jan 16 13:52:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: Microdrives getting phased out? References: Message-ID: <001501c2bd99$394a1ec0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Anybody here have a good hunch on where to find an IBM microdrive, not the $300 one, but one of the smallers. They're getting phased out in the places where I've looked. John A. From acme at ao.net Thu Jan 16 14:00:01 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: Help with pricing on vintage computers? Message-ID: <200301162003.PAA23329@eola.ao.net> From: Sellam Ismail > On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Mike Ford wrote: > > > I love this logic, the price on ebay a place where all the traditional > > requirements of willing buyer, willing seller, and open market are met, > > isn't valid because its too high. No the acceptable price is the price you > > once saw in a scrapyard after years of digging through the place 3 times a > > week and have never seen since. > > Pasta tastes good with marinara. ????? Glen 0/0 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 16 14:06:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: Ron Collison (and anyone else): XENIX In-Reply-To: <3E266231.6020007@POGGS.CO.UK> from "Peter Hicks" at Jan 16, 3 07:41:37 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1931 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030116/4fe61d89/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 16 14:06:45 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: hackers Guide to the Apple II In-Reply-To: <3E261782.693A0432@eagle.ca> from "C. Murray McCullough" at Jan 15, 3 09:22:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 531 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030116/87b7b32d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 16 14:08:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: <1916458036.20030115204131@subatomix.com> from "Jeffrey Sharp" at Jan 15, 3 08:41:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2050 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030116/ffb49a0a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 16 14:08:33 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: About Electronics Questions In-Reply-To: <3016737056.20030115233250@subatomix.com> from "Jeffrey Sharp" at Jan 15, 3 11:32:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 842 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030116/6a0e92d1/attachment.ksh From allain at panix.com Thu Jan 16 14:12:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: (no subject) References: Message-ID: <006701c2bd9c$111f3180$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > ... software for Apple ][, Commodore 64, Atari 800, and > TRS-80 (to name but a few platforms) will not be public > domain until something like 2075 I don't see the sence in sweating it. Waiting all the way even to 2055 for a thing is pretty pathetic IMHO. John A. From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Jan 16 14:21:00 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: About Electronics Questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <010e01c2bd9d$4920b2b0$020010ac@k4jcw> How about creating a new list we can elect to subscribe to or not. ccelectrons@classicmp.org or something? --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 14:19 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: About Electronics Questions > > > > > > With Tony et al as my inspiration, I have recently started to learn > > electronics. I've been at it a couple of days, and tonight > I just had the > > "aha!" for how high-pass and low-pass filters work. I > haven't come across > > anything yet that has me completely stumped, but if I do, > is it appropriate > > to ask newbie questions about electronics here? > > Hmmm... > > THis list covers restoration of classic computers, right? > Before you can > restore the electronic side of a computer, you have to > understand how it > works. And I can't think of a single circuit that's not been > used in some > classic computer, somewhere. > > On the other hand, the reply to some newbie electronic > questions might > well be RTFB (B=Book, the Fine Book, is of course, 'The Art of > Electronics':-)). > > But I certainly won't object to electronic discussions here. > > -tony > From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Jan 16 14:22:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: OT: Maxtor drive goes under References: Message-ID: <011d01c2bd9d$8a930040$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Sellam Ismail wrote: > Do you up its number everytime it fails? Phoenix-III? Phoenix-IV? Phoenix-I was the original "proof of concept" demo. It worked about as well as a gallium teaspoon. So, the answer to your question is, er, yes.... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From dave at naffnet.org.uk Thu Jan 16 14:24:01 2003 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman - dave@naffnet.org.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: About Electronics Questions References: Message-ID: <3E2715BC.3060005@naffnet.org.uk> Tony Duell wrote: >Hmmm... > > > >On the other hand, the reply to some newbie electronic questions might >well be RTFB (B=Book, the Fine Book, is of course, 'The Art of >Electronics':-)). > And a damn fine book it is too! Seeing this prompted me to check if it was still in print (it is), since it would be a crying shame if it were not - I consider my copy worth every penny paid for it. > >But I certainly won't object to electronic discussions here. > >-tony > > > > From marvin at rain.org Thu Jan 16 14:27:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: About Electronics Questions References: <010e01c2bd9d$4920b2b0$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <3E271640.62DA7757@rain.org> We have enough stuff that *really* is OT so how about another list called OT@classiccmp.org? Electronics questions seem like a *very* appropriate topic on this list, and I have absolutely no problems with discussions of electronics taking place here. "J.C.Wren" wrote: > > How about creating a new list we can elect to subscribe to or not. > ccelectrons@classicmp.org or something? > > --John > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > Behalf Of Tony Duell > > Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 14:19 > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: About Electronics Questions > > > > > > > > > > With Tony et al as my inspiration, I have recently started to learn > > > electronics. I've been at it a couple of days, and tonight > > I just had the > > > "aha!" for how high-pass and low-pass filters work. I > > haven't come across > > > anything yet that has me completely stumped, but if I do, > > is it appropriate > > > to ask newbie questions about electronics here? > > > > Hmmm... > > > > THis list covers restoration of classic computers, right? > > Before you can > > restore the electronic side of a computer, you have to > > understand how it > > works. And I can't think of a single circuit that's not been > > used in some > > classic computer, somewhere. > > > > On the other hand, the reply to some newbie electronic > > questions might > > well be RTFB (B=Book, the Fine Book, is of course, 'The Art of > > Electronics':-)). > > > > But I certainly won't object to electronic discussions here. > > > > -tony > > From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Jan 16 14:28:01 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Congress bent over, lubed themselves up, and moaned lovingly, extending > copyrights 20 more years on top of whatever the previous limits were as > of a year or so ago. > You forgot to mention that the Supreme Court was bent over right next to them, moaning just as loud. g. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jan 16 14:46:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: Jeffrey Sharp "ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog?" (Jan 15, 20:41) References: <1916458036.20030115204131@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <10301162049.ZM11364@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 15, at various times, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > In my quest to cover every aspect, to think about every permutation of what > ClassicCmp *could* be in the future, I have yet another question to ask > ClassicCmp subscribers: What if ClassicCmp were a weblog, in the style of > Slashdot or Kuro5hin? I have to add my vote to the many others who've said "NO!!!" > - Posting and reading of messages would be doable from a web browser. An > email interface could be developed, but it wouldn't be the primary > method of participation. I would hate that. > - You would have an account with a username and password. Right, I need another username/password (likely with different rules to all the rest) like I need another hole in my head :-) > - Members can participate from any computer with a web browser. Even lynx. > Surely anything that can run a mail client can run lynx... Browsers are much more cumbersome and slow than any sensible email client. And run on fewer systems. I sometimes use older systems for which there is no web browser, not even a text-based one, but there is a mail client. And using a browser require you to be online to read, which is not so good for those of us who use dialup. It also makes it harder to save individual messages. I often do that with mail; it's much harder to keep copies of web pages sensibly. > - Anonymity and privacy can be more well-respected. The 'sender' of a > post is your username, not your email address. A system can be > implemented where another member can discover your email address only > after you give them permission to do so. You could also do that with mail. I'd prefer that wasn't implemented, though see below. Sometimes it's more appropriate to respond directly to someone, off-list. > - There's no worry about HTML, attachments, wierd character sets, spam, > virii, or cctech moderation delay. You could do most of that with email filtering too. In fact, it would be nice, in my opinion, if we did filter out the HTML (and the HTML portions of multipart/alternate messages, which we seem to have had more of recently). > - Your inbox receives less clutter. You spend less bandwidth on mail. Actually, most people would spend *more* bandwidth on a website, because going back to a previously-viewed message would typically reload the page. More importantly, there are a lot of dialup users here. With a website you need to be online all the time you're reading, rather than slurping down a chunk of mail (as my system does a few times a day) to read offline. Less importantly, my system can do an early-morning mail fetch just before the end of the cheaper-rate nighttime period, and the mail is then there for me to read when I'm sufficiently awake (ie after two mugs of coffee) a little later (daytime call rate). > - It's a huge change from the status quo. We may lose some members. Including me :-) Returning to the idea of having both email and a website, isn't the website essentially an extension of the existing archive (possibly more sophisticated)? I agree it's good to have both, but let's keep the mailing list as the primary and the archive as, well, an archive. > The trouble with MUAs is getting some way of either (a) serving > mail folders to remote locations or (b) serving the login session to remote > locations. Both of those are doable (IMAP, SSH) but can be a pain to set up > for some users. Then there's the problem of ensuring you have the right > software at the remote location (IMAP-capable email client, SSH client). In > some cases (e.g. student lab, internet cafe on vacation), you can't count on > that. In nearly every case, you *can* count on some form of web browser. I disagree. Most ISPs run either IMAP or POP3 (or both). I have yet to see an Internet cafe, or attend a conference with 'net facilites, where I couldn't read my email. *Replying* to the list might be a problem in a few cases, but most ISPs (at least, most I'm familiar with here) operate some kind of authentication system so that users away from their normal location can still send mail (eg replies) from Internet cafes and the like. > On Wednesday, January 15, 2003, JP Hindin wrote: > > It surely can't be hard to have the mailing list archival software munge > > eMail addresses... > > Not at all. But messages delivered to subscribers aren't address munged. You > can look at the headers of this message and get my email address. I don't > think it's a big deal, but someone else might. Fair point. I don't mind my address being in the headers either, and in fact I prefer them to be there so people can email me directly, but if some do and some don't prefer that, perhaps we could set some preference per-user so that their submissions are/not munged. Some list manager software has that facility built-in. Summing that lot up, if the list were changed to become primarily web-based, I'd vote with my feet -- albeit with great regret -- but I have no objection at all to enhancing some of the mail facilities and providing additional methods of access and/or additional services. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jan 16 14:55:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: About Electronics Questions References: <010e01c2bd9d$4920b2b0$020010ac@k4jcw> <3E271640.62DA7757@rain.org> Message-ID: <002501c2bda1$f9461820$033310ac@kwcorp.com> IMHO questions about electronics are entirely ON topic, just like discussions of how to best clean plastic panels, mold new plastic switches, and paint metal cabinets are on topic. With the single caveat that it be either about electronics theory/repair as germane to old systems and power supplies and the like. I'd rather not have excessively long discussions about audio stereo amplifier circuits though. I am sure many here would benefit from such discourse, as has already happened here in the past. --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From joe_web at worldonline.fr Thu Jan 16 14:57:38 2003 From: joe_web at worldonline.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=EBl_Weber?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:32 2005 Subject: Harddrive collectors References: <20836.1042738996@www45.gmx.net> Message-ID: <001101c2bda2$edf36c60$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> hallo, ich sammle alte festplatten aber auch andere alte computer sachen (zubehoer, wie ganze computer), ich bin natuerlich an allen interresiert. Ich wohne in frankreich, und bin 18 jahre alt. mfg ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 6:43 PM Subject: Harddrive collectors > Hi all, > > > I subscribed to the list half a year ago, but I think I never told you > what I collect. I'm a guy (20) from Germany and what I like is collecting > old harddrives. Strange aeh ? > You certainly will agree when I tell you what a friend told me (DEC-fanatic > guy): > " Harddives are a part of computers, I need them for example to upgrade old > mainframes, but I wouldn't just collect them!" ...I purchased a PDP11/23 to > test my SMD-drives (you remember my mails: "PDP11?/23 and QD32" ?). > Rescueing old drives has become a task for me. > A webpage containing all the disks WITH photos is my next plan, so that > people, who find old drives can refer to the photos. > So don't be surprised if my emails refer to drives in most cases. > > Are there other harddrive collector in this forum ? > > By the way, I have manuals for disk drives of the Trident Series (Century > Data Systems). If anyone needs them , please let me know. > I don't have a lot of time at the moment but scanning the docs will be done > in the coming months. > > Pierre > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Brian Chase wrote: > > > > > I don't know; $5000 is a lot of money. That sucks. I don't recognize the > > > new high bidder's name at all. The chances are that we'll never see > > > copies of those docs now. > > > > Don't be so dour. System Source has been building a computer museum for > > years now (mostly through eBay it would seem). > > > > Check out their website: > > > > http://www.syssrc.com/html/museum/index.html > > > > I believe they used to have the collection on public display from their > > office. > > > > They're doing an awesome job documenting all this. I'll bet if you > > inquired they would be willing to make copies of the documenation, or scan > > it. > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > > Festival > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > > http://www.vintage.org > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > > www.VintageTech.com * > > > > -- > +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++ > NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr f?r 1 ct/ Min. surfen! > From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Jan 16 15:03:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:33 2005 Subject: RK07 repairable? Message-ID: <20030116220133.K57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Hi. I am a bit excited. Today I inspected a RK07 that I will get "delivered" next week. It was stored in a garage for some years so there is some minor corosion. Mostly the screws are covered with "white powder" and the rack is a bit rusty. Most of the machanics seams to be made of stainless steel and some casted metal (alu?) that isn't coroded. So I am in good hope to get it working. My main concern is the glas plate from the optical positioner that is broken off. I have the plate, it is still intact. I "just" need to glue it back to the head assembly. But then, I think, I would need to recalibrate the positioner or somthing. Is it that simple? Or is this defect a show stoper? (I know to handle a soldering iron and a oscilloscope.) What makes me a bit excited is that I will get the machine that this drive was connected to too. AFAIK there whas only a UNIBUS controller for this drive. The previous owner of the RK07 says that the machine was a PDP-11 but he don't know the exact model. I know that the "sister" of this machine is a /34. This would fit to the description: Big 19" box mounted in a "low boy" rack. I hope it is a /34. I am lusting for a non microprocessor UNIBUS machine for quie some time. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Jan 16 15:03:37 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:33 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: <1916458036.20030115204131@subatomix.com>; from jss@subatomix.com on Thu, Jan 16, 2003 at 03:41:31 CET References: <1916458036.20030115204131@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <20030116204621.I57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.01.16 03:41 Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > - Posting and reading of messages would be doable from a web > browser. An email interface could be developed, but it wouldn't be the primary > method of participation. If this happens, I will not be member of ClassicCmp any longer. Period. - POP3ing the mails, reading and answering them offline and flushing the spooled mail causes much, much, much less online time = EUR. - I can use what ever MUA I want, without being forced to some web interface that someone else _thinks_ is nice to use. - A personal archive is easy to maintain with no / minimal work. procmail is my friend. - Why the fsck has everything to be done with some web interface? What is wrong with the good, old mailing list approach? A web site with a personal account for accessing a file area or the like isn't bad and can be done without killing the mailing list. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From mrbill at mrbill.net Thu Jan 16 15:08:24 2003 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:33 2005 Subject: Video to DVD/VCD? (was: Prelinger & Computer Chronicles Archives In-Reply-To: References: <001b01c2bcb7$e30221c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20030116211059.GU27741@mrbill.net> On Wed, Jan 15, 2003 at 10:49:57AM -0800, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > I occasionally show my students the Kildall eulogy, and sometimes > "Hackers : heroes of the electronic age", which I have on VHS. I would > love to get them on some sort of digital medium, particularly DVD or VCD. > Is there anybody here who can do a transfer from VHS? I've got a JVC VCR with Firewire; I can do a good-quality transfer. Bill -- bill bradford mrbill@mrbill.net austin, texas From coredump at gifford.co.uk Thu Jan 16 15:10:01 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:33 2005 Subject: Caption Competition! (bit OT) References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030116170654.00b5e800@slave> Message-ID: <3E2720A9.8020107@gifford.co.uk> Adrian Vickers wrote: > See: > > http://helmies.org.uk/images/cap_comp.jpg > > > Then come up with an amusing/apposite caption :) > > Bonus points for anyone who can identify the make/model of machine she's > actually using. HINT: this photo was published circa. 1983, and is > almost certainly British. I think it's a Prestel adaptor made by Tandata. I had one, somewhere, in the original polystyrene packaging. There's one at Binary Dinosaurs: http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Tandata/viewdata.htm -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From at258 at osfn.org Thu Jan 16 15:13:00 2003 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:33 2005 Subject: IBM 5322 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: When the 5322 starts, it goes through a diagnostic proceedure. That's what the numbers are. I'm not sure what the error code is, but it might be looking for the printer. As I recall proc start is roughly equal to run. On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > I have an IBM 5322. I can't find any useful information on the web. It > looks very much like a System/23 Datamaster. Is it one and the same? > > Next question: > > When I boot it up it comes up with a display as follows: > > 07 08 09 0A 0B 0C 0D 0E 0F 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 1A > -- -- -- > > 1B 1C 1D 1E 1F 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 2A 2B 2C 2D 2E > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > > 2F 30 31 32 33 34[35]36 37 38 39 FD > -- -- > > 4A > > The hyphens underneath numbers indicate that those numbers are underlined, > and the square brackets indicate that that number is inversed video. > > Does anyone know what this means? > > Last question: > > I press the RESET button and it clears the screen and goes into what looks > to be a prompt mode. It had "PROC START" on the bottom, so I entered this > as a command. Now a status line on the bottom has "OPTION 10" with the > "10" blinking and I can't figure out what to do. > > Does anyone know what is going on? How do I boot from the floppy drive? > Anyone got an OS disk? A manual? > > Thanks! > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From coredump at gifford.co.uk Thu Jan 16 15:17:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:33 2005 Subject: HP 2100 cpu plea References: <002701c2bd20$c8183cf0$6501a8c0@az> <1042699025.2159.30.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> <016501c2bd66$886c2da0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3E272225.3020906@gifford.co.uk> Jay West wrote: > Yes, actually, I know where there is an absolutely pristine mint HP2116 > system, totally decked out with every card and option one could ever want. > An equally mint ASR33 is attached to it. It's about a 10 minute drive from > my house. There's a rather complete 2100 system about 5 minutes' drive from my house, at the HP Labs where I work (Bristol). Hidden away in storage, at the moment. Oh, and then there's the 2100S in my garage. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Jan 16 15:18:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:33 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? Message-ID: <200301162121.NAA21099@clulw009.amd.com> >From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com > >On Jan 15, at various times, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > >> In my quest to cover every aspect, to think about every permutation of >what >> ClassicCmp *could* be in the future, I have yet another question to ask >> ClassicCmp subscribers: What if ClassicCmp were a weblog, in the style of >> Slashdot or Kuro5hin? > >I have to add my vote to the many others who've said "NO!!!" > >> - Posting and reading of messages would be doable from a web browser. >An >> email interface could be developed, but it wouldn't be the primary >> method of participation. > >I would hate that. > >> - You would have an account with a username and password. > >Right, I need another username/password (likely with different rules to all >the rest) like I need another hole in my head :-) > ---snip--- I see no particular advantage to using a browser for the use of this group. If one looks at the attempts with something as global as news groups, we would be quickly trashed with hundreds of "Please fix my PCee" stuff from those that have little interest in classic machines. If we made it a closed group, like it is now, we'd still have the problem that even with current technology, many of us are bandwidth limited on how we use the web ( minor problem for me ). I can't think of any real advantage of going to some web based system and it would surely remove many from our group. DON'T TRY TO FIX WHAT ISN'T BROKEN!!!! Dwight From coredump at gifford.co.uk Thu Jan 16 15:21:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:33 2005 Subject: How many PDP-12's are there now? References: Message-ID: <3E272333.9070705@gifford.co.uk> Mike Ross wrote: > She had two sisters, at the Burden Neurological Institute. What, the place in north Bristol? Right near the Uni of the West of England? About 5 minutes drive from my house!?!? A PDP-12? -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Jan 16 15:29:01 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:33 2005 Subject: Expect to see fewer hard drives. Message-ID: This story just came out: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030116/ap_on_hi_te/unera sed_hard_drives_10 "So, you think you cleaned all your personal files from that old computer you got rid of? Two MIT graduate students suggest you think again. Over two years, Simson Garfinkel and Abhi Shelat bought 158 used hard drives at secondhand computer stores and on eBay. Of the 129 drives that functioned, 69 still had recoverable files on them and 49 contained "significant personal information" - medical correspondence, love letters, pornography and 5,000 credit card numbers. One even had a year's worth of transactions with account numbers from a cash machine in Illinois. " I expect that more people/companies will resort to smashing the hard drives of computers they get rid of :( From cb at mythtech.net Thu Jan 16 15:35:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:33 2005 Subject: Mac TV Message-ID: >D'Oh! I thought the Mac TV was a stripped-down Mac with AV in and AV out, in >fact I recall seeing something on a website somewhere about a prototype Mac >similar to what I have described. It was all-black with a plastic front >panel and a metal top cover, not too unlike a Grundig GDS100 "SkyDigibox" >digital satellite receiver. IIRC the machine was a Mac with custom boot >ROMs, so it wouldn't run Mac OS. IIRC the hardware was near totally custom, >too so swapping out bootROMs was not really an option. Oh, and the ROMs were >on SIMMs. Again, IIRC... Sounds like you are describing the Apple Set Top Box. A wonderfully useless peice of hardware. This box does in/out as it is a sort of cable TV tuner/interactive TV device. But, as far as I know, there are no functional units in existance. I think this is due mostly to the fact that they needed to be connected to a special "server" of sorts to do anything. Mine powers up, and does nothing from there (I can get a quick pop of audio on occasion, but nothing more). I have heard rumor that some have gotten a blue screen to be displayed, but really every one that I know about does the same as mine... powers on and sits doing nothing. The intent of them was to make an interactive TV unit for schools and other groups. They never made it past the testing stage, and it would seem that although a good number of the boxes made it into the public, the server unit to make them do anything did not. And these boxes I would think are also PAL compatible, at least mine has SCART connectors on the back. They are covered by Do Not Remove stickers, but the connectors appear to be there anyway. I think Tom Owad had some info on them onhis AppleFritter site. If anyone knows how to get one to do something, I'd be interested to hear... and if anyone wants one, for a while there was someone selling them on eBay, opening bid of $9.99, and I think most were closing with no bids. (I got mine at a garage sale for $5... some poor kid went off to college, and his mother was selling off everything he had, tons of old toys, baseball cards, and odd computer parts. I'm sure he was NOT happy when he came home for break!) -chris From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 16 15:39:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:33 2005 Subject: About Electronics Questions In-Reply-To: <010e01c2bd9d$4920b2b0$020010ac@k4jcw> from "J.C.Wren" at Jan 16, 3 03:24:34 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 883 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030116/493cf77d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 16 15:43:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:33 2005 Subject: About Electronics Questions In-Reply-To: <3E2715BC.3060005@naffnet.org.uk> from "Dave Woodman - dave@naffnet.org.uk" at Jan 16, 3 08:27:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 974 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030116/115c1221/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 16 15:49:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:33 2005 Subject: RK07 repairable? In-Reply-To: <20030116220133.K57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> from "Jochen Kunz" at Jan 16, 3 10:01:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1326 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030116/7c9babe0/attachment.ksh From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jan 16 15:54:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:33 2005 Subject: About Electronics Questions References: Message-ID: <00b401c2bdaa$29dc7940$033310ac@kwcorp.com> > And while we're about it, let's also have > IBM-maingrams@classicmp.org (so those who don't have room for such a > machine don't have to read about them) > > Minis@classiccmp.org (so the home-computer enthusiasts don't have to > read about PDP11s) > > PCs@classiccmp.org (so those who believe that no IBM clone is ever > 'classic' don't get bothered with messages about them) > > Cleaning-plastic@classiccmp.org > > Metalwork@classiccmp.org (for people who want to make new mechanical > parts for their printers and disk drives) Wow, I've never seen my sarcasm meter quite so pegged. I think it's broken now due to overload *GRIN* Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jan 16 15:59:01 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:33 2005 Subject: editors (was Re: DOS 1.0) In-Reply-To: <2855.4.20.168.156.1042589042.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <004d01c2bb89$78b1d830$1e01a8c0@netadelxp> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030115194756.030aba40@pop-server.socal.rr.com> My first, and still a favorite editor was PIE on the Apple II. Blazing fast, cut and paste, only downside was the limited screen of the A2. From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Jan 16 16:10:01 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:33 2005 Subject: About Electronics Questions In-Reply-To: <00b401c2bdaa$29dc7940$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <010f01c2bdac$6c51cd00$020010ac@k4jcw> Yea, that's a for-sure assessment. If this is the case, then perhaps what's considered "Off Topic" needs to be severely revisited. I'm all for things CC related, but where do you draw the line? And I kind of figured that the electronics classes might draw it's own brand of off-topicisms. One can see a siderail into microcontrollers (they are computing devices, and they are over 10 years old). Does everyone else want to read about them? Or just "real" classic computers? My thinking it was more out of consideration for others than segration because y'all who don't subscribe are no longer good enough. --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Jay West > Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 16:57 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: About Electronics Questions > > > > And while we're about it, let's also have > > IBM-maingrams@classicmp.org (so those who don't have room for such a > > machine don't have to read about them) > > > > Minis@classiccmp.org (so the home-computer enthusiasts don't have to > > read about PDP11s) > > > > PCs@classiccmp.org (so those who believe that no IBM clone is ever > > 'classic' don't get bothered with messages about them) > > > > Cleaning-plastic@classiccmp.org > > > > Metalwork@classiccmp.org (for people who want to make new mechanical > > parts for their printers and disk drives) > > Wow, I've never seen my sarcasm meter quite so pegged. I > think it's broken > now due to overload *GRIN* > > Jay West > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jan 16 16:13:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:33 2005 Subject: editors (was Re: DOS 1.0) References: <004d01c2bb89$78b1d830$1e01a8c0@netadelxp> <5.1.0.14.0.20030115194756.030aba40@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <00e701c2bdac$c7742f20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> My favorite editor is TECO on the PDP schtuff, and edwin on the dos-based PC. Modern windoz editor favorite - ultraedit32 --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Jan 16 16:27:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:33 2005 Subject: HP 2100 cpu plea References: <002701c2bd20$c8183cf0$6501a8c0@az> <1042699025.2159.30.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> <016501c2bd66$886c2da0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3E272225.3020906@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <010301c2bdae$d1772200$033310ac@kwcorp.com> > There's a rather complete 2100 system about 5 minutes' drive from my > house, at the HP Labs where I work (Bristol). Hidden away in storage, > at the moment. Oh, and then there's the 2100S in my garage. *SIGH* --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jrice54 at charter.net Thu Jan 16 16:34:26 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:33 2005 Subject: About Electronics Questions In-Reply-To: <010f01c2bdac$6c51cd00$020010ac@k4jcw> References: <010f01c2bdac$6c51cd00$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <3E2733B2.4000909@charter.net> Actually I've recently considered unsubscribing. I really don't care for DEC's, big iron or mini's, no disrespect to those who do collect them, but I no longer have the time to wade through all of the traffic. I would really like to split the list into the "big iron" side and "micro/workstation" side. I'm on some lists run out of the Low End Mac site and really appreciate how Dan has divided his list by machine class and topic. James J.C.Wren wrote: > Yea, that's a for-sure assessment. If this is the case, then perhaps > what's considered "Off Topic" needs to be severely revisited. I'm all for > things CC related, but where do you draw the line? And I kind of figured > that the electronics classes might draw it's own brand of off-topicisms. > One can see a siderail into microcontrollers (they are computing devices, > and they are over 10 years old). Does everyone else want to read about > them? Or just "real" classic computers? > > My thinking it was more out of consideration for others than segration > because y'all who don't subscribe are no longer good enough. > > --John > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org >>[mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On >>Behalf Of Jay West >>Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 16:57 >>To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>Subject: Re: About Electronics Questions >> >> >> >>>And while we're about it, let's also have >>>IBM-maingrams@classicmp.org (so those who don't have room for such a >>>machine don't have to read about them) >>> >>>Minis@classiccmp.org (so the home-computer enthusiasts don't have to >>>read about PDP11s) >>> >>>PCs@classiccmp.org (so those who believe that no IBM clone is ever >>>'classic' don't get bothered with messages about them) >>> >>>Cleaning-plastic@classiccmp.org >>> >>>Metalwork@classiccmp.org (for people who want to make new mechanical >>>parts for their printers and disk drives) >> >>Wow, I've never seen my sarcasm meter quite so pegged. I >>think it's broken >>now due to overload *GRIN* >> >>Jay West >> >>--- >>[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > > From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Jan 16 16:36:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:33 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2020.4.20.168.156.1042756720.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > So this means that, for instance, the software for Apple ][, Commodore > 64, Atari 800, and TRS-80 (to name but a few platforms) will not be > public domain until something like 2075, when computers as we know them > today will not even exist. Not even then, because by then Congress will have increased the copyright term by at least another 73 years. From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Jan 16 16:41:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:34 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20030116191322.13958.qmail@web41108.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030116191322.13958.qmail@web41108.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3916.4.20.168.156.1042757062.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I thought copyrights were for 100 years? In the US, since the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act went into effect a few years ago, the term is 70 years beyond the death of the author, or 95 years from creation for works of corporate authorship. However, over the last 40 years or so, Congress on average every year increased the term by a year. The Supreme Court has now ruled that they are allowed to retroactively increase the copyright term, so it is now effectively unlimited, as long as Disney et al. continue lobbying for increases. :-( From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Jan 16 16:49:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:34 2005 Subject: Mac TV References: Message-ID: <001b01c2bdb2$01757b20$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> chris wrote: > Sounds like you are describing the Apple Set Top Box. A wonderfully > useless peice of hardware. [quick scan through Google] Oh, that's the one alright. Nice looking thing. Might make a nice case for a Performa or some other Logic Board. > This box does in/out as it is a sort of cable TV tuner/interactive TV > device. But, as far as I know, there are no functional units in > existance. I think this is due mostly to the fact that they needed to > be connected to a special "server" of sorts to do anything. Mine > powers up, and does nothing from there (I can get a quick pop of > audio on occasion, but nothing more). I have heard rumor that some > have gotten a blue screen to be displayed, but really every one that > I know about does the same as mine... powers on and sits doing > nothing. I notice from the manual on Applefritter it has an RJ45 port. Now, IIRC, that's the same as an Ethernet port. So, does this thing have an Ethernet port? If so, has anyone tried hooking it up to a LAN and doing a bit of port-sniffing? Will it run Mac OS or anything similar or is the hardware 100% Mac-Incompatible? > The intent of them was to make an interactive TV unit for schools and > other groups. They never made it past the testing stage, and it would > seem that although a good number of the boxes made it into the public, > the server unit to make them do anything did not. :-( > I think Tom Owad had some info on them onhis AppleFritter site. If > anyone knows how to get one to do something, I'd be interested to > hear... and if anyone wants one, for a while there was someone > selling them on eBay, opening bid of $9.99, and I think most were > closing with no bids. (I got mine at a garage sale for $5... some > poor kid went off to college, and his mother was selling off > everything he had, tons of old toys, baseball cards, and odd computer > parts. I'm sure he was NOT happy when he came home for break!) LOL! If only items such as the Mac STB were as easy to find over here... I'm having all-on just to find a C64 or a ZX Spectrum at a car boot sale, let alone a ZX80 or a ZX81... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 16 16:50:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:34 2005 Subject: About Electronics Questions In-Reply-To: <010f01c2bdac$6c51cd00$020010ac@k4jcw> from "J.C.Wren" at Jan 16, 3 05:12:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1433 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030116/a828f216/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 16 16:58:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:34 2005 Subject: About Electronics Questions In-Reply-To: <3E2733B2.4000909@charter.net> from "James Rice" at Jan 16, 3 04:35:30 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1747 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030116/121cfe2e/attachment.ksh From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jan 16 17:29:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:34 2005 Subject: Expect to see fewer hard drives Message-ID: <20030116233155.67970.qmail@web21107.mail.yahoo.com> > I expect that more people/companies will resort to smashing the > hard drives of computers they get rid of :( the local computer recycling place here won't actually take in any machines with hard drives intact (from companies or individuals) unless said persons can prove that the drive(s) have been 'professionally wiped' - whatever that means. The recyclers are worried about being sued by the very companies / individuals that they got the machines from in the event that any data falls into somebody elses' hands. PC clones form 99% of the stuff coming in, but it's a shame that when the odd bit of exotica does come in it is without any disks and essentially useless without a copy of the OS and a suitable drive (and the knowledge to install said OS). I understand the RAM usually gets pulled if it's anything remotely useful and the rest goes straight to the metal recyclers (I talked to them seperately and they crush everything immediately) cheers Jules __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jan 16 17:44:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:34 2005 Subject: Caption Competition! (bit OT) In-Reply-To: John Honniball "Re: Caption Competition! (bit OT)" (Jan 16, 21:14) References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030116170654.00b5e800@slave> <3E2720A9.8020107@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <10301162334.ZM11764@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 16, 21:14, John Honniball wrote: > Adrian Vickers wrote: > > See: > > > > http://helmies.org.uk/images/cap_comp.jpg [...] > > Bonus points for anyone who can identify the make/model of machine she's > > actually using. HINT: this photo was published circa. 1983, and is > > almost certainly British. > > I think it's a Prestel adaptor made by Tandata. I had one, somewhere, > in the original polystyrene packaging. Yes, I was about to say Tandata or Tantel when I read this. There are still services that use Prestel/Viewdata protocols -- I spent ages writing a Viewdata terminal emulator for X-windows a few years ago, so I could use online banking from my Unix box. Still in use today :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jan 16 17:44:48 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:34 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: "Dwight K. Elvey" "Re: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog?" (Jan 16, 13:21) References: <200301162121.NAA21099@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <10301162346.ZM11780@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 16, 13:21, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com > > > >On Jan 15, at various times, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > > >> In my quest to cover every aspect, to think about every permutation of > >what > >> ClassicCmp *could* be in the future, I have yet another question to ask > >> ClassicCmp subscribers: What if ClassicCmp were a weblog, in the style of > >> Slashdot or Kuro5hin? > > > >I have to add my vote to the many others who've said "NO!!!" > > > >> - Posting and reading of messages would be doable from a web browser. > >An > >> email interface could be developed, but it wouldn't be the primary > >> method of participation. > > > >I would hate that. > > > >> - You would have an account with a username and password. > > > >Right, I need another username/password (likely with different rules to all > >the rest) like I need another hole in my head :-) > > > > ---snip--- > > I see no particular advantage to using a browser for the > use of this group. If one looks at the attempts with something > as global as news groups, we would be quickly trashed with > hundreds of "Please fix my PCee" stuff from those that have > little interest in classic machines. For those who weren't there, that was exactly what happened to alt.computer.hardware.homebuilt. Skipping over the long tale of woe, the upshot was that a new, moderated, group was created (comp.arch.hobbyist). Sadly, that sees little traffic as the interested parties seem to have moved to greener and more diverse pastures altogether (some of them, to this list). I hope we don't try to be an elitist mailing list, but lets not invite trouble. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From avickers at solutionengineers.com Thu Jan 16 17:56:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:34 2005 Subject: Caption Competition! (bit OT) In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030116170654.00b5e800@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030116235732.00b8cc00@slave> At 18:35 16/01/2003, Sellam Ismail wrote: >On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > > See: > > > > http://helmies.org.uk/images/cap_comp.jpg > > > > > > Then come up with an amusing/apposite caption :) > >"Oh my, I think my diaphragm is slipping out!" *speechless* >Hey, check out something even funnier: > >http://helmies.org.uk/ I know, it's my website... -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From avickers at solutionengineers.com Thu Jan 16 17:57:20 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:34 2005 Subject: Caption Competition! (bit OT) In-Reply-To: <3E2720A9.8020107@gifford.co.uk> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030116170654.00b5e800@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030116234557.01993ab8@slave> At 21:14 16/01/2003, John Honniball wrote: >Adrian Vickers wrote: >>See: >>http://helmies.org.uk/images/cap_comp.jpg >> >>Then come up with an amusing/apposite caption :) >>Bonus points for anyone who can identify the make/model of machine she's >>actually using. HINT: this photo was published circa. 1983, and is almost >>certainly British. > >I think it's a Prestel adaptor made by Tandata. I had one, somewhere, >in the original polystyrene packaging. There's one at Binary >Dinosaurs: > > http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Tandata/viewdata.htm Congratulations, I believe you win the bonus points - although TBH it's impossible to make out exactly what the machine is, and there's a disturbing lack of pictures of Prestel terminals out there on the 'net (so c'mon Witchy, get some better pix of that Tandata of yours!). For info, the pic is showing an early Home Banking system, which IIRC was run by Natwest, or maybe Lloyds, or BoS; I forget now, and the picture doesn't make it obvious. My caption was: "In the good old days, ladies operated computers side-saddle." -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Jan 16 17:59:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:34 2005 Subject: RK07 repairable? In-Reply-To: ; from ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk on Thu, Jan 16, 2003 at 22:46:02 CET References: <20030116220133.K57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20030117005557.U57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.01.16 22:46 Tony Duell wrote: Why did I knew that at least you would reply to my mail. ;-) > One of my RK07s was flooded with water from a burst pipe [...] > it worked fine!. That puts me in good hope. > These drives are solid. Ahhh. Good, old, solid technic from the good old days when everything was better. ;-) > > the optical positioner that is broken off. > Probably no major problems. The RK07 is servo-positioned when actually > reading or writing (there's a dedicated servo surface in the pack). OK. So no problems with track alignment. That was my main concern. > IIRC, the optical transducer is for loading/unloading only. You might > need to do a little setting up, but it's not as bad as a full alignment, > I think. Well, I'll see. But I think I will have some work with the PDP-11 first. The owner said somthing about broken PSUs... -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From coredump at gifford.co.uk Thu Jan 16 18:00:01 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:34 2005 Subject: HP 2100 cpu plea References: <002701c2bd20$c8183cf0$6501a8c0@az> <1042699025.2159.30.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> <016501c2bd66$886c2da0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3E272225.3020906@gifford.co.uk> <010301c2bdae$d1772200$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3E274881.1070108@gifford.co.uk> Jay West wrote: >>There's a rather complete 2100 system about 5 minutes' drive from my >>house, at the HP Labs where I work (Bristol). Hidden away in storage, >>at the moment. Oh, and then there's the 2100S in my garage. > > *SIGH* Oh dear, good thing I didn't mention the 2100 at a friend's house about 3 miles away... Oops, now I've mentioned it! :-) -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jan 16 18:06:01 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:34 2005 Subject: Caption Competition! (bit OT) In-Reply-To: "Hans Franke" "Re: Caption Competition! (bit OT)" (Jan 16, 19:08) References: <3E27033D.8533.6895470B@localhost> Message-ID: <10301170009.ZM11798@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 16, 19:08, Hans Franke wrote: > Hmm. To me the screen layout looks quite like a Teletext page. > I have no idea how this service was called in the UK (The name > Viewtext pops up, but I'm not shure). These are data pages, > transmitted via 'invisible' lines, 'between' or 'below' the > picture (As a bunch of other information also is). That's Videotext (generic term) or Teletext (name used by the BBC and ITV). > Now, back to the picture, what realy puzzles me is the keyboard. > The service is strict one way, you could only select a page, and > a regular remote is all you need. > Of course it could be the British equivalent of our (CEPT based > BTx system, a early online service to be used on a 1200/75 > connection with pages, made in a way to be displayed on you > telly. But then the picture layout would be quite different. > That service hat a quite more apropriate set of graphic > elements. Latterly, BTX did use different graphics, using a sort of "shift out" mode for "high" resolution but the original Bildschirmtext was the same as the UK's PRESTEL and French MiniTel services (generic term Viewdata), which use the Teletext character set and graphics. Those were truly interactive dialup services. Prestel (which predates BTX) offered information pages, news, electronic mail, downloadable software, etc. It became quite popular in the UK in the early 1980's and the price of adapters fell rapidly, especially with the advent of the BBC Micro and similar machines which could use cheap modems, and the promotion of the MicroNet 800 service (microcomputer news, bulletin board, and telesoftware, starting at page 800) and services like Viewfax258 (guess which start page) and the popular MicroGnome (anyone remember Bob Clark?). Page numbers could be up to 9 digits, and each could have 25 sub-pages so there was room for a lot of information (I probably still have statistics somewhere, as I had an Information Provider account then). There were even several bulletin boards which used Viewdata protocols, and commercial services too. The main travel agents' service was a private Viewdata system, several stockbrokers and financial institutions used one, and the Open University had one. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From dholland at woh.rr.com Thu Jan 16 18:24:00 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:34 2005 Subject: OT: Maxtor drive goes under In-Reply-To: <20030116142635.C22370@borg.org> References: <32994.64.169.63.74.1042705736.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <20030116142635.C22370@borg.org> Message-ID: <1042763511.13652.18.camel@crusader> (Sorry to be x86 centric here - But) A word of warning to those who see the integrated promise controllers built into the a fairly current motherboard, and think "Hey, quick/cheap way to do RAID" I know a fellow who was using his on-board Promise controller, and was with out his computer, and without access to his data, for over a week, when his MB went south, fortunately it was under warranty, but it (IMHO) far too long for the company to replace it. With software mirroring, it may cost you performance, but at least you can plug your drives into "any old" MB, and start recovery. As for backup systems, I'd be more interested in reasonable cost removable storage hardware. Somewhere along the line, my system grew to 280GB, I'm trying to figure two things: 1) Why the my drives are so full? 2) How the am I going to back this up? :-) IMHO/YMMV/Std Disclaimers/Void where prohibited by law. David On Thu, 2003-01-16 at 14:26, Kent Borg wrote: > On Thu, Jan 16, 2003 at 10:20:34AM -0800, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Unless someone has a suggestion for something that's very easy to > > use and either dumps backup data to a server or a ZIP disk or > > something removeable. > > I've been thinking about backups of late. > > In my recent story the disk that died didn't bring any data with it > because of being mirrored in a raid 1 array. Cool, but I don't want > to get smug. > > Backups are, in part, for protecting against hardware failure, and > raid 1 protects well against a disk dying, but not against the whole > box being lost in flood, fire, theft, lightening, etc. That is not > complete hardware protection but it is significant. > > But that's not *all* backups are for: backups are also for "time > travel", for example, to help one recover from an errant "rm -rf ~". > Raid 1 clearly doesn't solve this problem, but does make a formerly > insane approach possible: How about backing up the raid array with > itself? > > Use a (normally not mounted) partition to store historical information > about files. I haven't worked out the details of how to do this, but > if done it would result in a system that would be safe from the most > common sorts of hardware failures (a single disk dying) and software > failures (specific files deleted, corrupted, edited inadvisably). The > physical loss or destruction of the whole box or a low-level > scribbling of the disk (i.g., wildly applied Linux dd command) would > still be a risk, but those risks are far less than the risks of a > single unprotected disk. > > For more robustness, if two physically separated computers can talk to > each other at decent speeds, maybe they could be mutual backups. That > would remove even more risks. > > Note that using a disk to back a disk (be it the same disk or a > diffferent disk) is only sensible as disks get so big that they become > very difficult to back up via removabe media and are even difficult to > figure out how to fill up! (A 120 GB disk for ~$120? 120 GB is a LOT > of space. My ~measly~ 60 GB disks are damn big.) > > > Any know of a good online backup system for Linux that would work as I > describe? A simple rsync isn't good enough, I want to be able to go > back in time and browse for old files. > > > -kb From vaxzilla at jarai.org Thu Jan 16 19:03:01 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:34 2005 Subject: Maxtor drive goes under In-Reply-To: <003b01c2bd91$62e0c340$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > The drive we were having problems > > with were 2 and 4 gig drives. These had a servo information > > corruption problem ( that by design would always fail over time ). > > Guess that rules out Kalok then. They bit the big one in 1994, way before > 2GB and 4GB drives started appearing... I'm going to guess Micropolis. Those drives were absolutely crap. -brian. From drido at optushome.com.au Thu Jan 16 19:19:00 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:34 2005 Subject: Caption Competition (bit OT) In-Reply-To: <20030116180006.49972.16239.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030117121639.00fbfb80@mail.optushome.com.au> >http://helmies.org.uk/images/cap_comp.jpg > > >Then come up with an amusing/apposite caption :) > >Bonus points for anyone who can identify the make/model of machine she's >actually using. HINT: this photo was published circa. 1983, and is almost >certainly British. No witty caption, but it looks like a Tandata TD1600 viatel/prestel terminal. Used to have a stack of them here, couldn't think of any use for them so they were stripped for parts over time. From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jan 16 19:23:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:34 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sellam, Sometimes you just need to shut the fuck up. I generally just delete and move on, but it gets to me. This mailing list is not your personal relief valve. The fact that you have a keyboard really *doesn't* entitle you to insult at will. Grow up, man! Doc From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Jan 16 19:29:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:34 2005 Subject: Maxtor drive goes under Message-ID: <200301170131.RAA21193@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Brian Chase" > >On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, Philip Pemberton wrote: >> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >> > The drive we were having problems >> > with were 2 and 4 gig drives. These had a servo information >> > corruption problem ( that by design would always fail over time ). >> >> Guess that rules out Kalok then. They bit the big one in 1994, way before >> 2GB and 4GB drives started appearing... > >I'm going to guess Micropolis. Those drives were absolutely crap. > >-brian. > > Wow! The man is psychic! Dwight From doug_jackson at citadel.com.au Thu Jan 16 19:51:01 2003 From: doug_jackson at citadel.com.au (Doug Jackson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: Caption Competition (bit OT) Message-ID: Likewist, no caption, but I bet the houseplant is long gone. (So is the telly, and the wallpaper!) Doug Jackson Director, Managed Security Services Citadel Securix +61 (0)2 6290 9011 (Ph) +61 (0)2 6262 6152 (Fax) +61 (0)414 986 878 (Mobile) Web: Offices in Melbourne, Sydney, Canberra, Hong Kong, Boston > -----Original Message----- > From: Dr. Ido [mailto:drido@optushome.com.au] > Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 1:17 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Caption Competition (bit OT) > > > >http://helmies.org.uk/images/cap_comp.jpg > > > > > >Then come up with an amusing/apposite caption :) > > > >Bonus points for anyone who can identify the make/model of > machine she's > >actually using. HINT: this photo was published circa. 1983, > and is almost > >certainly British. > > No witty caption, but it looks like a Tandata TD1600 viatel/prestel > terminal. Used to have a stack of them here, couldn't think > of any use for > them so they were stripped for parts over time. > > CAUTION - The information in this message may be of a privileged or confidential nature intended only for the use of the addressee or someone authorised to receive the addressee's e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster@citadel.com.au. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Citadel Securix. Feel free to visit the Citadel Securix website! Click below. http://www.citadel.com.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030116/15df74e9/attachment.html From jss at subatomix.com Thu Jan 16 20:10:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: <003301c2bd72$3f3d5260$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <200301160334.WAA23043@parse.com> <003301c2bd72$3f3d5260$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3847791921.20030116201357@subatomix.com> On Thursday, January 16, 2003, Jay West wrote: > Nah, nix the blog idea. Heck, I'm wanting to go the other direction, and > make the mailing list archives searchable via email! Bwahahahahaha! Yeah, consider it nixed. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Thu Jan 16 20:25:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: About Electronics Questions In-Reply-To: <010f01c2bdac$6c51cd00$020010ac@k4jcw> References: <010f01c2bdac$6c51cd00$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <12848670163.20030116202835@subatomix.com> On Thursday, January 16, 2003, J.C.Wren wrote: > One can see a siderail into microcontrollers (they are computing devices, > and they are over 10 years old). Does everyone else want to read about > them? I do. I did a lot of microcontroller firmware coding at a previous job, and that, more than any other kind of programming I've done, felt closest to what I *think* it felt like to program classiccmps in their day. Of course, I wouldn't really know how close an approximation it is, since I never lived through the real thing. -- Jeffrey Sharp From mhstein at canada.com Thu Jan 16 21:04:24 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? Message-ID: <01C2BD03.E7D14B80@mse-d03> Present system is excellent; if changes in _addition_ to email list, good idea. m From mhstein at canada.com Thu Jan 16 21:05:15 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: Looking for Mike Kenzie Message-ID: <01C2BD04.4D12ED00@mse-d03> Yo, Mike! Trying to get a hold of you to chat more about Cromemcos, but not getting through. Any ideas? m From ggs at shiresoft.com Thu Jan 16 21:19:28 2003 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: IBM 5322 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1042773014.2178.0.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> On Wed, 2003-01-15 at 23:58, Sellam Ismail wrote: > The next thing will be to figure out how to export the data from this > machine to a PC. Which will be even more exciting given the fact that the /23 uses EBCDIC and not ASCII for character codes. -- TTFN - Guy From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 16 21:29:57 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <006701c2bd9c$111f3180$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, John Allain wrote: > > ... software for Apple ][, Commodore 64, Atari 800, and > > TRS-80 (to name but a few platforms) will not be public > > domain until something like 2075 > > I don't see the sence in sweating it. Waiting all the way > even to 2055 for a thing is pretty pathetic IMHO. You miss the point. It's not terribly obvious, but then if you think about it creatively, it'll come to you. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From gbs at gstebbins.com Thu Jan 16 21:30:48 2003 From: gbs at gstebbins.com (Gary Stebbins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: Glacier Peak Rainbow In-Reply-To: <3E24CC06.7424.D3A45C5@localhost> Message-ID: <000001c2bd2e$ebd7d110$0b00a8c0@critter> Wow, I'm impressed with the interest in the old Rainbow. I'd promised one of the local people he could have the equipment I had left (late 1998), which included a 100A, a 100B, and miscellaneous parts. The guy never showed, and after it had sat in the weather for over a month with him not picking it up, I trashed it all. I wish it would have gone to someone that could have appreciated it. If someone is interested in putting these files on an FTP server, I'll send him a CD of all files. If not, I'll create individual CDs for those interested (within reasonable limits). I've attached a zip file that contains two files. "glacier.lis" contains a directory of all files that were in the file areas of Glacier Peak Rainbow at the time it was taken off-line. "Rainbow.lis" contains a directory of files I think I got from the DECUS site around the end of 1997 (guessing from the file dates). I don't recall for sure the source of these files. I also have a RBKermit directory not shown in either of these files. As I don't follow the list, please cc me in any related messages. And, thanks for the kind words about Glacier Peak Rainbow! Gary Stebbins gbs@gstebbins.com Former Glacier Peak Rainbow sysop -----Original Message----- From: Lawrence Walker [mailto:lgwalker@mts.net] Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 00:49 To: Gary Stebbins; cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: jba4@po.cwru.edu Subject: Re: Glacier Peak Rainbow Well I am certainly interested. There are a few other Rainbow people on the list as well. There is also some movement to get Jeff Armstrongs old Rainbow site up and going again on Jay West's server. Your BBS site was the one that popped up most in the old FIDO Rainbow list. It would be great to have that archive available. Geoff Reed who's on this list and was a regular on the FIDO Rainbow pointed me in your direction but I was unable to track you down. I'll get back to you off-list. Lawrence On 14 Jan 2003, , Gary Stebbins wrote: > I just happened to run across your archived messages from last > November when searching the 'net for something else. I'm not quite > sure from what I saw exactly where the messages were posted. That sure > brings back memories! > > I still have the old files from Glacier Peak Rainbow sitting on a hard > drive (it's not like the old days when I was worrying about exceeding > the space on a 10 or 20 MB hard drive). There are about 640 files in > 22 MB. I could burn CDs for anyone interested. > > Gary Stebbins > former Glacier Peak Rainbow sysop -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Rainbow.zip Type: application/x-zip-compressed Size: 10577 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030116/078f70e3/Rainbow.bin From kees.stravers at iae.nl Thu Jan 16 21:31:46 2003 From: kees.stravers at iae.nl (Kees Stravers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20030116093336.013ea7d8@pop.iae.nl> At 03:09 16-1-2003 -0500, Chad Fernandez wrote: >Jeffrey Sharp wrote: >> In my quest to cover every aspect, to think about every permutation of what >> ClassicCmp *could* be in the future, I have yet another question to ask >> ClassicCmp subscribers: What if ClassicCmp were a weblog, in the style of >> Slashdot or Kuro5hin? > >It sounds like you are talking about a web board type thing. Please NO. > There are a few that I read from time to time, but they are a pain to >navigate, and email is so much easier! Web boards are what non-computer >people tend to use, in my opinion. I wish the various truck boards I >read were mailing lists!!!! I totally agree with Chad. If classiccmp were changed into a web board format, I would leave. Thanks to the mail list format, all messages are delivered to my computer when they are sent, and I can look through them at my leasure. I do not have to go and check if something new and interesting has appeared, because all messages will be on my computer already. Mail is push and web board is pull, and pull is unneeded work when push is available in my opinion. Reading email is much easier to do than reading a web board, for the boards I have seen you have to do an unbelievable amount of mouse clicking or other interaction with your computer to see the messages, a lot more than you would have to with your email program. For people already bordering on RSI problems this is not a good thing. Also you have to wait on the server for each message to appear, more waiting time than you would have from your mailer. And you have to be online all the time to read the board, and with mail you go online, get all the messages, and disconnect again. Over here in Europe local calls are not free! Reading classiccmp online would soon be too expensive. Please keep the mailing list format. It is fast, simple, and easy to use. There are enough tools available to deal with the unavoidable spam. Kees. -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands http://www.vaxarchive.org/ http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/cm/ From bbrown at harpercollege.edu Thu Jan 16 21:32:30 2003 From: bbrown at harpercollege.edu (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: Head Crashes (was: OT: Maxtor drive goes under) In-Reply-To: <001201c2bd6b$472802b0$0149030a@mohg.com> References: <001201c2bd6b$472802b0$0149030a@mohg.com> Message-ID: The most interesting drive crash I've seen is on an IBM 3380 HDA. The platter has deep scratches, and the heads that served the surfaces that had the crash are litterally vaporized! The tiny wires that went from the head-arms to the heads are left dangling...but the heads are vapor! -Bob >Interesting problem. I remember when I was fixing IBM PC's back in >the mists of time we opened up an old 5MB Seagate drive and managed >to get it spinning - with our fingers! It continued working quite >reliably thereafter for quite some time, IIRC. > >However, there was another drive we tried that one, but it turned >out it had suffered the worst drive crash in history - the RW head >was literally *buried* in the disk, as if someone had taken a hammer >to it. But it was a completely sealed unit beforehand. > >If you're desperate, you may try prying it open and twigging the >platters. But it may well be more than just the stickies - my >experience of late has been that drives are much better protected >from that occurrance. > >Best of luck with that! > >Dennis bbrown@harper.cc.il.us #### #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR Harper Community College ## ## ## Systems Administrator Palatine IL USA #### #### Saved by grace -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1337 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030116/d2f24a75/attachment.bin From florit at unixville.com Thu Jan 16 21:33:15 2003 From: florit at unixville.com (Louis Florit) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: FA: TRS-80 Model IV with Corvus Omninet Network Interface In-Reply-To: <20030116152106.47858.48419.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: Hullo fellow classiccmp enthusiasts; I'm in the process of clearing up some 'never started' project space, and have put my TRS80 Model IV find from a few years ago up on ebay. I had intended to make the system a serial terminal, but it doesn't have a serial port and I never got around to buying one. I then thought of gutting it and making it into a modern PC. I was talked out of wrecking working vintage hardware just for the case. The neato thing about this TRS80 is (what I was told to be through usenet) the Corvus Omninet Network interface, aka Network 4 board; this is a diskless client for the network. Unfortunately I have no documentation, software, or proof, that it actually is Corvus Omninet, so take my commentary with a grain of salt. My limited probing on the inside of the system did not show any boards with the company name on them, for example, but I did not break open the shielded board area for a closer look (see pics). If this in fact was a real Omninet client system, you would also need a server or controller and the software to run it; again, from word of mouth, I was told it was likely a x86 or the like with a hard drive in it and the Omninet interface on it. On the auction page you will find a load of nicely sized pictures for it, and perhaps another TRS80 enthusiast will be able to determine if I was told correctly or not about the network. Here's the auction link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2301561688&category=1247 Here's the thread archived on google groups here: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&th=740c326f7620a14b&rnum=1 Interesting tidbits from the above thread, thanks to "Frank Durda IV": "Corvus Omninet and Network 4 are the same beast. Tandy bought Omninet chipsets and made their own boards for the Model 4 and 1000HX/EX computers. The educational operating system that Tandy sold for use with Network 4 was written by a guy in his garage (living in the northwest as I recall)." "Omninet/Network 4 are trunk networks, more like Thinnet Ethernet in topology. (Some people came up with repeater/boosters that allowed non-daisy-chain wiring for Omninet/Network 4, but that is an extension of the basic design.)" "The underlying signaling in Omninet/Network 4 is differential, which means unshielded twisted pair works great (even using RJ11 plugs for interconnects work fine), but Tandy decided they would make more money by selling shielded wire and making you use those irritating wing-nut connectors. Tandys choice also meant that if you had one computer in the lab plugged into an outlet with a hot neutral, Tandys wiring scheme would promptly blow-out all of the machines on the network the moment you plugged that one computer in since they tried to share a shield ground via the shielded cable. This happened fairly often, and 30+ computers would simultaneously make Bing-Pop-Zing sounds as the tops blew off integrated circuits inside the case, followed by burning smells. Later, Tandy included an outlet tester with the installation kit and recommended its use..." AAAAAACCCKKKKKKKK! The horror! No burning smell from this one, however. This system was bought from a store in Sunnvyale, CA called 'Weirdstuff' that takes old computers and resells or strips them for their valuables. Wierdstuff is a cool store, check them out if nothing else to visit a blast to the computer and electronics past. They had a stack of these TRS-80 Models IVs at the time. They had been there for some time in the warehouse. Some of the systems had Tracking ID tags talking about 'Fremont School District', which is an area in Silicon Valley. My guess is they were traded or given away to make space for a more modern setup and weirdstuff ended up with them. Hope you liked all the background on it. I love collecting these old 'puters and hope to pass it on to someone equally enthusiastic. L From charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com Thu Jan 16 21:34:00 2003 From: charlesleecourtney at yahoo.com (lee courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: HP 2100 cpu plea In-Reply-To: <004a01c2bcd4$0a6253e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20030116172813.2754.qmail@web20806.mail.yahoo.com> Jay, Have you tried Monterey Bay Communications? (http://www.montbay.com/) A couple years ago I had a brief interaction with them and they did not seem very interested in helping the Computer History Museum or engaging with people collecting and preserving older HP gear. But it never hurts to give them a call and see what they say. I'd try starting at the top if possible (sorry don;t have a name for you) and go from there. Good Luck! Lee Courtney --- Jay West wrote: > Ok folks, I'm officially desperate. I can't figure > out what is wrong with > the 2100 IOP cpu memory section on my 2000/Access > system. So, just thought > I'd post this to the list....forgive my begging, it > isn't pretty *Grin* > > Anyone have a working HP 2100 cpu available? I will > pay real $$$ at this > point, or trade probably just about anything I have > for one. If anyone has > one they will sell, or trade for, or give away to a > place (me) that will > actually use it and not throw it on a shelf, I would > like to know. I'd also > welcome any leads as to where one might be stored, > etc. Or, as an > alternative, if anyone has a magical device that > will instantly transfer all > of Tony Duell's repair knowledge and ability to my > brain, that might work ;) > > FYI - I need either a 2100A or 2100S cpu. Don't need > or want any 21MX or > 1000 type cpus. > > Thanks! > > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Jan 16 21:35:01 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: VXT X terminal question Message-ID: <0301170324.AA00667@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Hi folks, I wonder, does anyone know what VAXstation CPUs does VXT software run on? VXT software runs (of course) on the VXT2000 X terminal box, but can also run on many regular VAXstations. It officially supports KA42 (VS3100 M30/38/40/48) in order to provide a software upgrade from VT1300 to VXT2000 (VT1300 is a KA42 without local mass storage and with a different badge on the box), but I have also heard (turned up in Google search) that it'll run on a KA410 (VS2000) as well. This last point makes me think "hmm, it must be fairly generic, I wonder what other VAXstations can it run on?" Specifically I wonder whether it would run on a KA43 (VS3100 M76). I'm willing to bet that it'll handle the SPX video board just fine, as the video in the real VXT2000 is an SPX clone, but I'm concerned about how it would handle the Rigel CPU. VS3100 M76 was certainly in existence when VXT2000 was designed and the VXT software was written, but did they include support for it in the released code or not? MS From t.myers at protasis.co.uk Thu Jan 16 21:36:16 2003 From: t.myers at protasis.co.uk (Tim Myers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: Caption Competition! (bit OT) In-Reply-To: <20030116180006.49972.16239.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <000801c2bd8d$89b25780$5b76033e@local.sunplan.com> That looks a lot like the old Prestel Viewdata terminal I used to have. 1200/75 baud modem, I believe it was badged by Royal Bank Of Scotland for their Prestel banking service. Caption could be "The houswife of 1999 will use a computer rather than the telephone to gossip with her chums"? Tim. From jwest at imail.kwcorp.com Thu Jan 16 21:37:02 2003 From: jwest at imail.kwcorp.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: HP 5423A analyzer Message-ID: <00bc01c2bdab$3efcb000$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I just receive an HP 5423A Structural Dynamics Analyzer. I have no interest in it, but being curious, what the heck is it used for?? From googling I get the impression it does fourier modal testing? Jay "Idly curious" West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From rob at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Thu Jan 16 21:37:47 2003 From: rob at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: <20030116093822.67136.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030115223548.02a74bc8@pop.freeserve.net> At 09:38 16/01/2003 +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: > > > ARM Evaluation Kit - yep - that's the one. I do have various discs and > > I can copy the six disks for you, but as I mentioned in previous post, my > > Disc 1 has a corrupt track. > >is there some sort of ftp site or something for BBC stuff that disk images >could go on? It'd be nice if they were archived somewhere so they (hopefully) >won't get lost! www.8bs.com has a lot of stuff on it, but it's mostly public domain stuff, or magazine cover discs, etc. From rob at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Thu Jan 16 21:38:34 2003 From: rob at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: <20030116170558.99886.qmail@web21110.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030115223753.02d46180@pop.freeserve.net> At 17:05 16/01/2003 +0000, you wrote: > > > ARM Evaluation Kit > >I just checked - mine's S/N 0184 according to the label where the cable comes >out. If that started at 0 I guess they made a few... Hmm. That sounds like the PSU serial number. Mine is 0119. I have another white sticker on the underside o the box itself, full number 25-anc13-1000038. (Which matches the format of the computer serial numbers.) >I found the IEEE 488 interface too, which I also seem to have a >polystyrene box >for but no cardboard, manuals or disks. Curious. (no S/N or label of any kind >on that, and I didn't feel like opening the case. I expect they made thousands >of those anyway) > >No sign of the Z80 box I may of had, but it might be up in the loft. > >cheers > >Jules > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Everything you'll ever need on one web page >from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts >http://uk.my.yahoo.com From mhstein at canada.com Thu Jan 16 21:39:21 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: Archived digests? Message-ID: <01C2BD89.20AD6940@mse-d03> Hi Jeffrey et al: Forgot to empty my mailbox, it filled up and I missed a few digests; with the previous system I could retrieve the missed messages, but am apparently too dense to figure out how with the present system. Help? mike Any nitwit can understand computers, and many do. - Thodor Nelson, Computer Lib & Dream Machines. From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Thu Jan 16 21:40:08 2003 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: Caption Competition! (bit OT) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030116170654.00b5e800@slave> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030116170654.00b5e800@slave> Message-ID: <20030117025759.9643D1DD97@www.fastmail.fm> > Then come up with an amusing/apposite caption :) > > Bonus points for anyone who can identify the make/model of machine she's > actually using. HINT: this photo was published circa. 1983, and is almost > certainly British. > -- > Cheers, Ade. > Be where it's at, B-Racing! > http://b-racing.com How about this one: "Hmmm...I wonder what *this* button does? -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://fastmail.fm - The professional email service From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 16 21:40:59 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: Expect to see fewer hard drives. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, Feldman, Robert wrote: > This story just came out: > > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030116/ap_on_hi_te/unera > sed_hard_drives_10 > > "So, you think you cleaned all your personal files from that old computer > you got rid of? > > Two MIT graduate students suggest you think again. This story was apparently covered on TechTV today and will re-air tonight (tonight being 8pm PST or having passed depending on what time zone you are in and when you read this message). They also used footage from VCF 2.0 as part of the piece. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 16 21:41:46 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: editors (was Re: DOS 1.0) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030115194756.030aba40@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Mike Ford wrote: > My first, and still a favorite editor was PIE on the Apple II. Blazing > fast, cut and paste, only downside was the limited screen of the A2. Ditto. I used it quite extensively to write various stuff I put out in my hacker youth. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 16 21:42:49 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: List suggestions & anniversary (was Re: About Electronics Questions) In-Reply-To: <3E2733B2.4000909@charter.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, James Rice wrote: > Actually I've recently considered unsubscribing. I really don't care > for DEC's, big iron or mini's, no disrespect to those who do collect > them, but I no longer have the time to wade through all of the traffic. > I would really like to split the list into the "big iron" side and > "micro/workstation" side. I'm on some lists run out of the Low End Mac > site and really appreciate how Dan has divided his list by machine class > and topic. Just do what most people do: DELETE--DELETE--DELETE--DELETE--READ--DELETE--DELETE--READ--... Works way better than suggesting to split the list up (which has been suggested and argued to hell and back at least 5 times during the life of this list, which averages out to about once a year). BTW, ClassicCmp's 6th anniversary is coming up in February. Does anyone know where Bill Whitson is? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 16 21:43:39 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3916.4.20.168.156.1042757062.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > > I thought copyrights were for 100 years? > > In the US, since the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act went into > effect a few years ago, the term is 70 years beyond the death of the > author, or 95 years from creation for works of corporate authorship. > > However, over the last 40 years or so, Congress on average every > year increased the term by a year. The Supreme Court has now ruled > that they are allowed to retroactively increase the copyright term, > so it is now effectively unlimited, as long as Disney et al. continue > lobbying for increases. :-( It'd be really hard for someone to enforce copyright if, say, everyone joined up in a cause to use a copyrighted work to death all over the world. For instance, everyone take Mickey Mouse and do something with it: make a new cartoon, introduce new characters based on him, write new stories, draw him in porn, etc. If thousands of people did this and disseminated it over the web, Disney wouldn't be able to do anything about it but turn to the courts. The courts would have a mess on their hands because the only recourse would be to shut the internet down. It could force the issue. Maybe. It's an idea. But something must be done. Blowing up Disney's world headquarters would make a nice statement. (Please note certain parts of this message are a copyrighted (c) 2003 work of fiction by the author ;) (Have to add that disclaimer in this day and age ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 16 21:44:24 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, Doc Shipley wrote: > Sellam, > Sometimes you just need to shut the fuck up. > > I generally just delete and move on, but it gets to me. This mailing > list is not your personal relief valve. The fact that you have a > keyboard really *doesn't* entitle you to insult at will. > > Grow up, man! Doc, A resounding FUCK YOU ya Texas hick. The message is decidedly ON-TOPIC as it refers to my main point, which is that old software will remain copyrighted for years to come, without any logic. You need to keep deleting and moving on, as I'm sure many others have done. Next time you have a problem then take it private and don't litter the list with your drivel. Or better yet, just filter my messages out, OK? Ya dick. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 16 21:46:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: IBM 5322 In-Reply-To: <1042773014.2178.0.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: On 16 Jan 2003, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > On Wed, 2003-01-15 at 23:58, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > The next thing will be to figure out how to export the data from this > > machine to a PC. > > Which will be even more exciting given the fact that the /23 uses EBCDIC > and not ASCII for character codes. After having written software to convert punch card data to ASCII, I've got this covered. I think the real trick will be determining whether or not this has a serial port. If not, I'll have to look into sending it out the printer port. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From alhartman at yahoo.com Thu Jan 16 21:47:01 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: MacTV Remote... In-Reply-To: <20030116180006.49972.16239.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030117034132.84837.qmail@web13408.mail.yahoo.com> There is a MacTV remote going on eBay... 5 days left. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2301518730&category=4610 Regards, Al __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From jimkeo at multi-platforms.com Thu Jan 16 21:49:24 2003 From: jimkeo at multi-platforms.com (Jim Keohane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: Stock Ticker software early 80's and before References: <001201c2bd6b$472802b0$0149030a@mohg.com> Message-ID: <00a601c2bdda$a580d840$0200000a@ibm0187702152> There were software products, often with required peripherals (satellite, FM broadcast, leased line, etc.), that allowed an Apple ][ or TRS-80 or IBM PC, etc. to access stock or commodity ticker feeds in a real-time manner and monitor trades for price, volume and other limits. If activity was outside specified range the user would receive an alert like a screen/printer message or an audible beep or both. Some products were Radio Data Retriever, Intra-Day Analyst, PC Quote, etc. I am looking for documentation, news articles, manuals, reviews, ads, user guides, brochures, etc. describing such products. Not limited to micros either. There was a MERLIN stock market database and timesharing service with such abilities on Burroughs mainframes plus other systems on proprietary terminal networks (Quotron, Bloomberg, Instinet, etc.) that may have such abilities too. Even brokergae firms must have had software with such abilities inhouse on mainframes and other systems. If you can point me to any docs reflecting state-of-the-art around mid '83 and earlier please let me know via jimkeo@multi-platforms.com. Thanks! - Jim Jim Keohane, Multi-Platforms, Inc. "It's not whether you win or lose. It's whether you win!" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030116/7c985cf1/attachment.html From anheier at owt.com Thu Jan 16 21:50:12 2003 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm & Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: Bunch of XT parts available Message-ID: I have a bunch of, I believe, XT parts available. For example ISA hard disk controllers, serial port and parallel port boards and cables available for trade. Drop me an email it you are looking for something specific. Thanks Norm From anheier at owt.com Thu Jan 16 21:51:06 2003 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm & Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: iSBC 86/14 Single board computer manual available Message-ID: I have a 1982 Intel iSBC 86/14 and iSBC 86/30 single board computer hardware reference manual available for trade. Any one interested? Thanks Norm From cb at mythtech.net Thu Jan 16 22:04:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: Michael Nadeau's Collectible Microcomputers book Message-ID: I'm just putting this out there, because I feel like it. I got my copy of Michael Nadeau's "Collectible Microcomputers" book in today. I have to say, I think it is well worth the price. The pictures alone were worth the $30. I bought mine directly from him (something I like to do when possible anyway... in the hope that it puts an extra dollar in the author's pocket) I spent a solid hour going thru it today at lunch. Just a basic skim over it (well, ok, an hour's worth of skimming), and I just found it to be a great memory kick. So many computers that I forgot about that I had at one point either seen, played with, or heard of. I was also kind of interested that in my basic scanning, it struck me that an odd number of small computer companies were from New Jersey... weird (or maybe the NJ ones just stood out to me more). I also enjoyed reading the details about how some of these things came about, and of course, like any junky, just reading the specs on each computer (and looking at the dates these things were released). It is mostly a field guide, so if you are looking for a story book, this ain't it... but if you are looking to see a pretty decent list of computers, specs on them, and many many pictures of them... ya can't beat it. Think of it as the computer geek's version of a bird watchers guide book. Its also just a great book to open at random, and thumb thru. Makes it good "kill a few minutes waiting" book. So this is my basic positive review for the book. I just wanted to give an opinion other than Sellam's. (Nothing against his opinion, but I try to watch where reviews come from, and when someone says something is worth buying, and they are also selling that item... I take that into consideration when I give their review weight). If anyone hasn't bought it, and was waiting to hear other opinions, well, you now have mine... I like it... its getting a prized spot in the magazine holder in my bathroom (yes, that is a good thing... I do all my best reading on the can). My wife on the other hand hates it... I have done nothing but whine all night to her about different computers I now want to track down and get. She has already threatened to hide the book on me. -chris From jss at subatomix.com Thu Jan 16 22:06:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: Archived digests? In-Reply-To: <01C2BD89.20AD6940@mse-d03> References: <01C2BD89.20AD6940@mse-d03> Message-ID: <14554667457.20030116220832@subatomix.com> On Thursday, January 16, 2003, M H Stein wrote: > with the previous system I could retrieve the missed messages, but am > apparently too dense to figure out how with the present system. Help? http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/ http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/ -- Jeffrey Sharp From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 16 22:16:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry, that message should have been private. It just goes to show that one shouldn't air their dirty laundry in public, doesn't it, Doc? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ejchapel at attbi.com Thu Jan 16 22:19:00 2003 From: ejchapel at attbi.com (Ed Chapel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: Caption Competition! Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030116202112.00b27008@mail.attbi.com> "Before I wore my fingers down to the nubbins, typing was soooo much easier with my left hand..." From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 16 22:20:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: Stock Ticker software early 80's and before In-Reply-To: <00a601c2bdda$a580d840$0200000a@ibm0187702152> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, Jim Keohane wrote: > There were software products, often with required peripherals > (satellite, FM broadcast, leased line, etc.), that allowed an Apple ][ > or TRS-80 or IBM PC, etc. to access stock or commodity ticker feeds in a > real-time manner and monitor trades for price, volume and other limits. > If activity was outside specified range the user would receive an alert > like a screen/printer message or an audible beep or both. > > Some products were Radio Data Retriever, Intra-Day Analyst, PC > Quote, etc. Indeed, I just picked up such a unit (radio receiver) the other day. It's a cool little pocket calculator-sized device with a telescoping antenna. When the service was active, you would punch in the stock symbol and it would retrieve the price for you. You could also program in your portfolio and it would presumably keep track of everything for you. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 16 22:23:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: Michael Nadeau's Collectible Microcomputers book In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, chris wrote: > So this is my basic positive review for the book. I just wanted to give > an opinion other than Sellam's. (Nothing against his opinion, but I try > to watch where reviews come from, and when someone says something is > worth buying, and they are also selling that item... I take that into > consideration when I give their review weight). I don't blame you in the least, but my opinions are always honest, even where my own endeavors are involved. :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cb at mythtech.net Thu Jan 16 22:24:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: >For instance, everyone take Mickey Mouse and do something with it: make a >new cartoon, introduce new characters based on him, write new stories, >draw him in porn, etc. If thousands of people did this and disseminated >it over the web, Disney wouldn't be able to do anything about it but turn >to the courts. The courts would have a mess on their hands because the >only recourse would be to shut the internet down. It could force the >issue. Maybe. It's an idea. You really think the courts won't try to shut the internet down? Have you not been following the RIAA and the MPAA's battle over P2P sharing... that is EXACTLY what you are saying to do. Violate copyright on a massive scale, and see what they do... the DMCA and other crazy laws are what they do. The real solution is for someone to grow a brain, and revise what is determined as needing a copyright. I personally have no objection to Disney keeping MM in their control. They still actively develop new stuff using the character. I think it is quite fair for them to have exclusive control over MM (and other things). But what needs to be done is revise copyright, so things that are in use (and REALLY in use) can be protected, and the rest of the stuff that has been abondoned will go public domain. This way, the junk the companies don't actively use or care about, can be opened up for others to take advantage of, rather than being caught up in the middle of the wars over the handful of stuff that is still used and desired to be protected. And that's all I will say on this about to be wildly out of control topic. -chris From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Thu Jan 16 22:37:00 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: (no subject) References: Message-ID: <3E27892A.7E0B244D@compsys.to> >Sellam Ismail wrote: > It'd be really hard for someone to enforce copyright if, say, everyone > joined up in a cause to use a copyrighted work to death all over the > world. > > For instance, everyone take Mickey Mouse and do something with it: make a > new cartoon, introduce new characters based on him, write new stories, > draw him in porn, etc. If thousands of people did this and disseminated > it over the web, Disney wouldn't be able to do anything about it but turn > to the courts. The courts would have a mess on their hands because the > only recourse would be to shut the internet down. It could force the > issue. Maybe. It's an idea. > > But something must be done. Blowing up Disney's world headquarters would > make a nice statement. > > (Please note certain parts of this message are a copyrighted (c) 2003 > work of fiction by the author ;) > > (Have to add that disclaimer in this day and age ;) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival Jerome Fine replies: I think that in order to be really effective, the number of people doing what you suggest would need to be very large - i.e. at least 50% of the population. If only 1% of the population were involved, a small number could easily be prosecuted and the rest would fall into line. BUT, if 50% of the population were involved, there is a MUCH more effective solution - boycott Disney until they volunteer to give up all copyrights under the terms of the previous rules - i.e. what the old number of years was. No violence is required and very little organization is required. Another method would be to make it impossible for Disney enterprises to function by some method that is quite legal. That requires more organization but fewer people. Of course, it might be less satisfying than using violence, but think of the power it would give to the consumer. Imagine if every company was required to be truthful in all of their advertising? Any claims that were made would actually be enforced? But I don't think that will not happen. Based on what I observe, the more they are told stories that are "a blatant disregard for the truth", the more the enjoy it. That might not be true with this list, but my observations tend to confirm it with the majority of the population. After all, most people who gamble LOSE!!! What do Barnum Bailey say? Is that the correct spelling? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com Thu Jan 16 23:00:00 2003 From: 3sdiarftt02 at sneakemail.com (No Junk Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: Bunch of XT parts available Message-ID: <22707-86166@sneakemail.com> Does that fact that I'm in Australia rule me out? I could probably do with a couple of interesting 8-bit ISA cards for an Amstrad PC-20 I want to mod. Do you, in fact, does anyone have one of those old hard-drive-on-a-card things that still works? And possibly a sound card might be interesting for the second slot. Again, something big would be cool, as the cards stick out of the case on the PC-20. LAPC-1? Or maybe a big RAM expansion card. I used to have an old 1MB Expanded Memory RAM card for my first XT. Was there ever a processor upgrade card for 8-bit ISA? TIA, Chris J. > Norm wrote: > > I have a bunch of, I believe, XT parts available. For example ISA > hard disk > controllers, serial port and parallel port boards and cables > available for > trade. Drop me an email it you are looking for something specific. From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Thu Jan 16 23:04:00 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: (no subject) References: Message-ID: <3E278F79.21B0BF79@compsys.to> >chris wrote: > You really think the courts won't try to shut the internet down? Have you > not been following the RIAA and the MPAA's battle over P2P sharing... > that is EXACTLY what you are saying to do. Violate copyright on a massive > scale, and see what they do... the DMCA and other crazy laws are what > they do. > > The real solution is for someone to grow a brain, and revise what is > determined as needing a copyright. I personally have no objection to > Disney keeping MM in their control. They still actively develop new stuff > using the character. I think it is quite fair for them to have exclusive > control over MM (and other things). But what needs to be done is revise > copyright, so things that are in use (and REALLY in use) can be > protected, and the rest of the stuff that has been abondoned will go > public domain. > > This way, the junk the companies don't actively use or care about, can be > opened up for others to take advantage of, rather than being caught up in > the middle of the wars over the handful of stuff that is still used and > desired to be protected. Jerome Fine replies: Are you suggesting that in order for someone or a company to keep a copyright, they MUST prove that they are selling a minimum amount of the product - say 1% of the peak level ever attained - with a minimum number of years allowed - similar to the number of years allowed for a patent? For software, perhaps there would be a mandatory license required for the source code at $ 1.00 if bugs were left unfixed for a certain number of years. I agree that there should NOT be a requirement that a company fix a bug, but I do think that there should be a requirement that someone else NOT be stopped from doing so, although ownership of the code used to fix the bug might need to be shared in some manner. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Thu Jan 16 23:17:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: Osborne OCC1 References: <200301160050.TAA06677@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: <3E27932F.69ABDA36@mail.verizon.net> Would it be possible to get those diagrams and any other tech docs for an OCC1? It would be much appreciated. Thanks, Eric acme@ao.net wrote: > Thanks for sending 'em Bob, but I already have the Tech Manual here. > Also, my home-brew email client throws out attachments (and html code ;>) > > Glen > 0/0 > > From: Feldman, Robert > To: Glen Goodwin > Subject: RE: Re: Osborne OCC1 > Date: 01/13/2003 2:09 PM > > > Attached is a ZIP file with two JPEG images that are scans of pages from the > > Osborne 1 Technical Manual that relate to the PS and wiring. They might be > > useful to you. > > > > Bob > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: acme@ao.net [mailto:acme@ao.net] > > Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 4:03 PM > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: Re: Osborne OCC1 > > > > > > From: Joe > > To: Glen Goodwin > > Subject: Re: Osborne OCC1 > > Date: 01/08/2003 7:55 AM > > > > > I recently had an OCC-1 that blew something in the PSU. That odd thing > > was > > > at it kept working! I wasn't really intersted in it so I gave it to Glen > > Good > > > . I expect that he'll troubleshoot/repai > > > r it soon. > > > > Okay, Joe, I get the hint ;>) I'll take a look at it this weekend -- should > > be > > a quick and easy fix. > > > > Later -- > > > > Glen > > 0/0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------_=_NextPart_000_01C2BB23.FD2CA5E6 From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Thu Jan 16 23:25:01 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: copyright was:(no subject) References: <20030116191322.13958.qmail@web41108.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E27950E.BB414911@mail.verizon.net> 16 years I think. Eric Clayton Frank Helvey wrote: > I thought copyrights were for 100 years? > > -- Frank > > --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > > So the whores that are beholden to corporate > > interest...er, I mean the > > United States Congress has decided that copyrights > > in the US should be > > extended another 20 years beyond the limits they > > were set at, and those > > mental miscreants that put an ex-Coke junkie in the > > White House...er, I > > mean the US Supreme Court has upheld these > > extensions, saying it is > > Congress' duty to determine copyright lengths. > > > > So this means that, for instance, the software for > > Apple ][, Commodore > > 64, Atari 800, and TRS-80 (to name but a few > > platforms) will not be public > > domain until something like 2075, when computers as > > we know them today > > will not even exist. > > > > This makes so much sense that I just had an > > aneurysm. > > > > -- > > > > Sellam Ismail > > Vintage Computer Festival > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > > http://www.vintage.org > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia > > at www.VintageTech.com * > > > > ===== > = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= > Clayton Frank Helvey, President > Montvale Software Services, P. C. > P.O. Box 840 > Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 > Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com > ============================================================ > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com From primate at mindspring.com Thu Jan 16 23:37:00 2003 From: primate at mindspring.com (Neil Carpenter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: (no subject) References: Message-ID: <03c301c2bdea$ddbb1ee0$0100a8c0@primate> From: "Sellam Ismail" > For instance, everyone take Mickey Mouse and do something with it: make a > new cartoon, introduce new characters based on him, write new stories, > draw him in porn, etc. If thousands of people did this and disseminated > it over the web, Disney wouldn't be able to do anything about it but turn > to the courts. The courts would have a mess on their hands because the > only recourse would be to shut the internet down. It could force the > issue. Maybe. It's an idea. > > But something must be done. Blowing up Disney's world headquarters would > make a nice statement. > Apparently you don't truly own and value any intellectual property of your own. What you suggest is theft, as surely as if I were to break into your house and begin moving out computers on handtrucks while you were away. It doesn't matter if the property is owned by Disney or by me...it is property. Appropriating it because you feel you have some _right_ to it (even though you neither created it yourself nor paid for its creation) would put somebody firmly into the Bolshevik camp. If you want to make a statement, stop buying Disney products. Convince your friends to stop buying Disney products. That is how honest, decent men censor a company...not by hollow threats, even if they are weakly labeled as fiction. Neil From loedman1 at juno.com Thu Jan 16 23:52:01 2003 From: loedman1 at juno.com (loedman1@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: Utter eBay Madness (was help w/pricing) Message-ID: <20030116.215227.-130273.4.loedman1@juno.com> >>Would that be traction or stationary ? >> Rich Stephenson >Don't leave out steam engines as in steam locomotives, railroad equipment... >Will J Will, If you happen to have Dish Network satellite service, I highly recommend two shows on RFDTV Classic Tractors and Trains and Locomotives. Nothing like a good dose of steam to make you feel better. Rich From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Fri Jan 17 00:07:01 2003 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <03c301c2bdea$ddbb1ee0$0100a8c0@primate> References: <03c301c2bdea$ddbb1ee0$0100a8c0@primate> Message-ID: <1042783797.9975.6.camel@azure.subsolar> On Thu, 2003-01-16 at 23:39, Neil Carpenter wrote: > Apparently you don't truly own and value any intellectual property of your > own. What you suggest is theft, as surely as if I were to break into your > house and begin moving out computers on handtrucks while you were away. It > doesn't matter if the property is owned by Disney or by me...it is property. > Appropriating it because you feel you have some _right_ to it (even though > you neither created it yourself nor paid for its creation) would put > somebody firmly into the Bolshevik camp. Now that's total BS .... If I copy a program/video/song you still have the darned thing, unlike if I walk off with your computers. Somebody that makes a copy of something *may* be depriving an author of possibly income, but if someone is too cheap or really can't afford to buy it in the first place, "lost income" is just BS. Ideas and physical objects are totally different!!! That said I believe if you find a program/video/song useful that somebody else created they deserve some sort of compensation, but the whole idea of "Intellectual Property" is bullshit. Paul. From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 17 00:32:01 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Doc, > > A resounding FUCK YOU ya Texas hick. The message is decidedly ON-TOPIC as > it refers to my main point, which is that old software will remain > copyrighted for years to come, without any logic. Oww! Oww! Oww! The objection had nothing to do with the relevance of the post, but that it was without substance, useful information, or anything but rant. > You need to keep deleting and moving on, as I'm sure many others have > done. Next time you have a problem then take it private and don't litter > the list with your drivel. > > Or better yet, just filter my messages out, OK? So you *enjoy* being ClassicCmp's resident jerk? I know, and I'm sure you know, that I'm not the only list-member that objects to your style. Had I thought that I was, I would have objected in private. Your behavior on-list *is* a common irritant, and could use a common discussion. > Ya dick. Oww! Owww! Owww!!! Doc From tim.myers at sunplan.com Fri Jan 17 00:53:01 2003 From: tim.myers at sunplan.com (Tim Myers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:35 2005 Subject: Caption Competition! (bit OT) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030116234557.01993ab8@slave> Message-ID: <004201c2bdf6$37b44240$5b76033e@local.sunplan.com> > For info, the pic is showing an early Home Banking system, It was Royal Bank of Scotland - my old man had one of those terminals, but it was OEMd in RBOS blue, with silkscreened RBOS logo on the case. It may be in his loft somewhere, I must go and check it out! Tim. From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Jan 17 01:02:00 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:36 2005 Subject: About Electronics Questions In-Reply-To: References: <3E2715BC.3060005@naffnet.org.uk> from "Dave Woodman - dave@naffnet.org.uk" at Jan 16, 3 08:27:40 pm Message-ID: <3E2756F5.16500.5652235@localhost> I've never seen that one. My main source is Grob's "Basic Electronics" which was the text-book in one of my electronic courses or the on-line sci.electonics FAQ. Lawrence On 16 Jan 2003, , Tony Duell wrote: > > >On the other hand, the reply to some newbie electronic > > >questions might well be RTFB (B=Book, the Fine Book, is > > >of course, 'The Art of Electronics':-)). > > > > > And a damn fine book it is too! Seeing this prompted me to > > check if it > > Well, I like it enough to have both editions and both lab > manuals.... > > There are some things in it that I disagree with, but > actually, that applies to just about any book I've ever > read. I don't recall anything that made me scream out 'THey > are suggesting WHAT ?!!!?!?' > > There are some areas of electronics it doesn't cover that > well (active filters and RF being 2 areas that I would want > other books for). But it'll give you a good understanding of > the basics and beyond (way beyond) of most of electronics. > > And when you've read and understood most of it, you'll (a) > be able to make sense of most other electronics books and > (b) you'll be able to make up your own mind one which bits > you don't fully agree with. > > -tony > lgwalker@ mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Jan 17 01:02:47 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:36 2005 Subject: Bunch of XT parts available In-Reply-To: <22707-86166@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <3E2756F5.14963.5652267@localhost> There's the Inboard PC/386 that was put out by Intel. I have one installed in one of my IBM PCs. Intel also put out a 2meg daughtercard for it, which unfortunately I"ve never been able to find. Lawrence On 17 Jan 2003, , No Junk Mail wrote: > Does that fact that I'm in Australia rule me out? > > I could probably do with a couple of interesting 8-bit ISA > cards for an Amstrad PC-20 I want to mod. Do you, in fact, > does anyone have one of those old hard-drive-on-a-card > things that still works? > > And possibly a sound card might be interesting for the > second slot. Again, something big would be cool, as the > cards stick out of the case on the PC-20. LAPC-1? > > Or maybe a big RAM expansion card. I used to have an old > 1MB Expanded Memory RAM card for my first XT. Was there ever > a processor upgrade card for 8-bit ISA? > > TIA, Chris J. > > > Norm wrote: > > > > I have a bunch of, I believe, XT parts available. For > > example ISA hard disk controllers, serial port and > > parallel port boards and cables available for trade. Drop > > me an email it you are looking for something specific. lgwalker@ mts.net From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 17 01:53:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:36 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <03c301c2bdea$ddbb1ee0$0100a8c0@primate> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, Neil Carpenter wrote: > Apparently you don't truly own and value any intellectual property of your > own. What you suggest is theft, as surely as if I were to break into your > house and begin moving out computers on handtrucks while you were away. It > doesn't matter if the property is owned by Disney or by me...it is property. > Appropriating it because you feel you have some _right_ to it (even though > you neither created it yourself nor paid for its creation) would put > somebody firmly into the Bolshevik camp. You misunderstand me. I totally support intellectual property rights. I also totally support the copyright system. However, what I don't support is the abuse the system has suffered through major corporations over the last several decades. A lot of what the Founding Fathers committed this country to in our Constitution is either being perverted or ignored. One of those things is copyright law. The intent is to allow creative control to pass to the public domain after the original creator has enjoyed a monopoly and has been rewarded for it. The best argument for this is the fact that many products of the largest corporations today were derived from previous works that entered into the public domain. They took those works, built upon them and created yet more value and innovation (not unlike the patent system). The point is that if this free flow of creativity is stopped by holding up copyrights nearly indefinitely, creativity may suffer. Sure, people can always go out and produce their own characters or works of fiction or whatever. But the more corporations maintain control, the more power they will have to claim that other works are infringing on their copyrights. For example, I can never create a character called Dickey Mouse because Disney would have a shit fit and sue my ass off. A company can't call it's operating system "Lindows" without getting its ass sued off. This is a real problem. The intent is not to rip-off other people's work, but to use it as a basis for new creative invention. This is how we advance as a civilization. If you don't believe me, sit back and let the corproations maintain ownership of everything, and then let's see how far we progress in a generation. If language were copyrighted, we would still be talking like cavemen. > If you want to make a statement, stop buying Disney products. Convince > your friends to stop buying Disney products. That is how honest, decent > men censor a company...not by hollow threats, even if they are weakly > labeled as fiction. Ok, the day you read in the paper that I blew up Disney's headquarters, I'll also be sending you a check for One Million Dollars!! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Jan 17 01:58:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:36 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030115223548.02a74bc8@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <003601c2bdfe$b03373a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Rob O'Donnell wrote: [Software for BBC Micros] > www.8bs.com has a lot of stuff on it, but it's mostly public domain > stuff, or magazine cover discs, etc. There's also http://bbc.nvg.org - I've downloaded some ROMs from there and programmed them into 27128s and, in one case, a 27256 (burned the 16k image into the top and bottom halves of the ROM). Now my Beeb has copies of the Advanced Disk Toolkit and Advanced Disk Investigator. I've got Colour ScreenPrint 1.10 (anyone got a manual for that?), legal copy, plus a box full of ROM cartridges. BTW, does anyone know what the small raised bar on the EPROM sockets is for? BTW, has anyone got a spare BBC Master Series User's Manual? The one that covers the Master 128? I've got a copy of the Advanced User's Guide (the revision that covers the Master - anyone got an errata sheet?), but no regular BBC Master User's Manual. I'd also like to find out what ROMs the ROM cartridges will accept - I've used 27128s and 27256s, anyone know if anything else will work? Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From tim.myers at sunplan.com Fri Jan 17 02:11:00 2003 From: tim.myers at sunplan.com (Tim Myers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:36 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: <003601c2bdfe$b03373a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <004a01c2be01$02168430$5b76033e@local.sunplan.com> > BTW, has > anyone got a spare BBC Master Series User's Manual? The one > that covers the Master 128? There's some Master related docs at these sites : http://members.aon.at/~musher/bbc/essentials.htm http://www.retrocomputing-world.com/biblio/computer/acorn/docs.shtml Failing that, you're always welcome to borrow my user's manual and photocopy/scan it. Tim. From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Fri Jan 17 02:21:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:36 2005 Subject: VXT X terminal question Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FDFD@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Michael asks: > This last point makes me think "hmm, it must be fairly generic, I > wonder what other VAXstations can it run on?" True, the software set seems to be fairly generic.. I found this out a while ago by accident; I (net-)booted that image onto the wrong machine, and dang! wasdat? it *runs* ??? :-) > Specifically I wonder whether it would run on a KA43 (VS3100 M76). Most likely not, because the -M76 is an NVAX box similar to the 4000 series machines (MV4 aka 4000/200, the 4000's, the 3100-M76 and -4X and -8X series.) It might run on the 3100-M38, although I believe that's a "non" 3100, too. I would assume that they kept the CPU support library as small as possible, meaning only the generic series of machines they "sortof" intended the VXT software set for, i.e. the 2000, 3100 and alike systems and their hardware features (as needed.) > I'm willing to bet that it'll handle the SPX video Yup, it's basically some "NanoVMS" kernel, with minimal runtime and a VMS DECwindows subset. Which means (methinks..) that it most likely wasnt stripped from its GPX and SPX(+) drivers. Dang! Now you got me curious. I have all three (2000,M38 and M76) so will set them up tonight or tomorrow and see what they do. --fred From mbg at TheWorld.com Fri Jan 17 02:22:03 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:36 2005 Subject: (no subject) References: <03c301c2bdea$ddbb1ee0$0100a8c0@primate> Message-ID: <200301170824.DAA109992946@shell.TheWorld.com> >Now that's total BS .... If I copy a program/video/song you still have >the darned thing, unlike if I walk off with your computers. Somebody Ah, but why are you taking a copy? Is it perhaps because it has value to you? That it entertains? If so, then someone had to go through the process of creation to produce it. Not unlike building a house. They deserve something to compensate them. >that makes a copy of something *may* be depriving an author of possibly >income, but if someone is too cheap or really can't afford to buy it in >the first place, "lost income" is just BS. That seems to be the general argument of the recent and current generations... that just because they can't pay for something shouldn't preclude them having it... "they are entitled to it". WRONG! If it has value to you, then pay for it. This is not to say that I support the RIAA... they have been excessivly draconian in the measures they have taken. I don't think they should be able to get a greater amount of fees from internet stations which carry a song than a FM radio station would have to pay for the same song. It should be no different. The laws already exist to protect against copyright infringement, they don't need to add NEW laws to protect against specific forms of CI, just enforce the old ones. >Ideas and physical objects are totally different!!! How physical is physical... an idea in your head which hasn't been realized isn't physical, but once you have realized it through generation of a song, like writing it on paper, you have a physical product (and the performance is physical). If you develop a computer program, it exists as magnetic domains on a disk, or as patterns of electrons in a bit stream... electrons are just as physical. >That said I believe if you find a program/video/song useful that >somebody else created they deserve some sort of compensation, but the >whole idea of "Intellectual Property" is bullshit. You're entitled to your belief... but I won't shed a tear if you steal IP and are caught... Megan From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jan 17 02:34:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:36 2005 Subject: Caption Competition! (bit OT) In-Reply-To: "Tim Myers" "RE: Caption Competition! (bit OT)" (Jan 16, 18:31) References: <000801c2bd8d$89b25780$5b76033e@local.sunplan.com> Message-ID: <10301170805.ZM12204@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 16, 18:31, Tim Myers wrote: > That looks a lot like the old Prestel Viewdata terminal I used to have. > 1200/75 baud modem, I believe it was badged by Royal Bank Of Scotland > for their Prestel banking service. It's the father of that terminal. The BoS terminal is a badged successor and is quite a lot smaller, about the size of a Sonclair Spectrum, and blue in colour. BTW, I expect you mean Bank of Scotland, not Royal Bank. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jan 17 02:35:06 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:36 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: "Rob O'Donnell" "Re: Update: BBC Acorn" (Jan 15, 22:40) References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030115223753.02d46180@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <10301170834.ZM12220@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 15, 22:40, Rob O'Donnell wrote: > At 17:05 16/01/2003 +0000, you wrote: > > > > ARM Evaluation Kit > > > >I just checked - mine's S/N 0184 according to the label where the cable comes > >out. If that started at 0 I guess they made a few... > > Hmm. That sounds like the PSU serial number. Mine is 0119. I have another > white > sticker on the underside o the box itself, full number > 25-anc13-1000038. (Which > matches the format of the computer serial numbers.) I finally remembered to check mine. It's 23-ANC13-1000034. All Acorn retail product serial numbers of the era are of that form. The 25 tells where it was made, ANC13 is the product code, the rest is a serial number, which always starts at 1000000 for production systems or factory prototypes. So my Archimedes 310 is 27-AKB10-1000002, my 440 is 27-AKB20-1000614, and my A3000 is 27-AKB01-1000028. A in ANC says it's Acorn hardware (S for Acornsoft), N for the BBC Micro series of machines (M for Master, D for Compact, K for Archimedes, E for Econet, etc), C says it's a processor peripheral (A for model A, B for Model B, F for peripheral, etc), 13 is a model code. The third letter and the first digit change for variations, so a Model B is ANB02, with disk interface factory fitted ANB05 (IIRC), Master 128 is AMB15, and so on. A Domesday system or "BBC AIV System" (a Master 128 plus interfaces, trackerball, LV player and disks) is AVC11. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Jan 17 02:46:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:36 2005 Subject: IBM 5322 In-Reply-To: References: <1042773014.2178.0.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <32914.64.169.63.74.1042793389.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Sellam writes about the IBM System/23: > I think the real trick will be determining whether or not this has a > serial port. If not, I'll have to look into sending it out the printer > port. Don't count on the printer port having the same pinout as anything you've ever seen before. I suppose there's a very small chance that it might use the same connector and pinout as a PC, but more likely not. On the other hand, you should obviously ignore anything I have to say about a 5322, since yesterday I was completely wrong about what kind of computer it is. (I was foolish to expect IBM to maintain anything like a consistent numbering scheme.) From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Jan 17 03:18:01 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:36 2005 Subject: Osborne OCC1 In-Reply-To: <3E27932F.69ABDA36@mail.verizon.net> Message-ID: <000001c2be09$bd177750$cb87fe3e@athlon> > Would it be possible to get those diagrams and any other tech > docs for an OCC1? It would be much appreciated. > You can find an Osborne Technical Manual here: http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/osborne/ Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Fri Jan 17 04:22:00 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:36 2005 Subject: Full Drives (was Re: OT: Maxtor drive goes under) References: <32994.64.169.63.74.1042705736.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <20030116142635.C22370@borg.org> <1042763511.13652.18.camel@crusader> Message-ID: <006c01c2be12$cde99000$434a1942@starfury> Before backing it all up, consider going in and cleaning out all your old temp, log, old, new, bak, dmp, dma and similar files. Its easy and can clear out much more space than you might believe. After a year of doing that routinely at home, I wrote a routine for work that does this automatically for several of my company's computers. It took another year to get that approved, but now I use it routinely for our remote systems as well. It will return you several megs, at least, and will marginally speed-up access on your drives. Cheers! Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Holland" To: "Classic Computer Talk" Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 06:31 PM Subject: Re: OT: Maxtor drive goes under > (Sorry to be x86 centric here - But) > > A word of warning to those who see the integrated promise controllers > built into the a fairly current motherboard, and think "Hey, quick/cheap > way to do RAID" > > I know a fellow who was using his on-board Promise controller, and was > with out his computer, and without access to his data, for over a week, > when his MB went south, fortunately it was under warranty, but it (IMHO) > far too long for the company to replace it. > > With software mirroring, it may cost you performance, but at least you > can plug your drives into "any old" MB, and start recovery. > > As for backup systems, I'd be more interested in reasonable cost > removable storage hardware. Somewhere along the line, my system grew to > 280GB, I'm trying to figure two things: > > 1) Why the my drives are so full? > 2) How the am I going to back this up? :-) > > IMHO/YMMV/Std Disclaimers/Void where prohibited by law. > > David > > > > On Thu, 2003-01-16 at 14:26, Kent Borg wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 16, 2003 at 10:20:34AM -0800, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > Unless someone has a suggestion for something that's very easy to > > > use and either dumps backup data to a server or a ZIP disk or > > > something removeable. > > > > I've been thinking about backups of late. > > > > In my recent story the disk that died didn't bring any data with it > > because of being mirrored in a raid 1 array. Cool, but I don't want > > to get smug. > > > > Backups are, in part, for protecting against hardware failure, and > > raid 1 protects well against a disk dying, but not against the whole > > box being lost in flood, fire, theft, lightening, etc. That is not > > complete hardware protection but it is significant. > > > > But that's not *all* backups are for: backups are also for "time > > travel", for example, to help one recover from an errant "rm -rf ~". > > Raid 1 clearly doesn't solve this problem, but does make a formerly > > insane approach possible: How about backing up the raid array with > > itself? > > > > Use a (normally not mounted) partition to store historical information > > about files. I haven't worked out the details of how to do this, but > > if done it would result in a system that would be safe from the most > > common sorts of hardware failures (a single disk dying) and software > > failures (specific files deleted, corrupted, edited inadvisably). The > > physical loss or destruction of the whole box or a low-level > > scribbling of the disk (i.g., wildly applied Linux dd command) would > > still be a risk, but those risks are far less than the risks of a > > single unprotected disk. > > > > For more robustness, if two physically separated computers can talk to > > each other at decent speeds, maybe they could be mutual backups. That > > would remove even more risks. > > > > Note that using a disk to back a disk (be it the same disk or a > > diffferent disk) is only sensible as disks get so big that they become > > very difficult to back up via removabe media and are even difficult to > > figure out how to fill up! (A 120 GB disk for ~$120? 120 GB is a LOT > > of space. My ~measly~ 60 GB disks are damn big.) > > > > > > Any know of a good online backup system for Linux that would work as I > > describe? A simple rsync isn't good enough, I want to be able to go > > back in time and browse for old files. > > > > > > -kb > > > From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Fri Jan 17 08:56:01 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:36 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? References: <200301160410.XAA109453886@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <3E281A66.977CB5F6@comcast.net> Here's my $0.02... I would keep the current e-mail setup, but adding a web interface would be nice. But I would say keep the web interface a simple as possible, so someone running Lynx on an old Vax or IBM won't get killed with the overhead from browsing the web pages. -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Fri Jan 17 08:59:01 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:36 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? References: <14A4A5F6-290E-11D7-98A7-000502512D39@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <3E281B30.E64CC1E8@comcast.net> Jim Strickland wrote: > > ... After > all, if you can't read it on a VT100, it's probably not appropriate to > this list. > > -Jim (who is considering hooking a vt320 to a serial port on his OSX > (unix) mac... > > -- > Jim Strickland I wanted to do just that, before I got laid off from work, but couldn't figure out how to get my boss to buy a serial port adapter for the G4... -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Fri Jan 17 09:05:01 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:36 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? References: <200301160520.VAA12326@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <14117590023.20030115234703@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3E281C8F.2018E621@comcast.net> Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > ... > > That still doesn't rule out having the data archive, marketplace, and > subscription management pages integrated under one username/password pair. > Worse case, I might write my own list manager. *That* might be an > interesting project. > Data archive, as in something like a notebook, that members can view? Sounds interesting. All these ideas are definitely good ones. -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Jan 17 09:17:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:36 2005 Subject: Motorola VME cards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I've just run over probably 100-200lbs (45-90kg) of Motorola VME cards... > from 68010 processor cards, to memory, and I/O cards. Now, there's not > chance I would want to hold on to these, so I'm wondering if anyone else > is interested in some of the cards. I can't guarantee anything now, just > tell me if you're interested or not. I'll try to get some cards to > whoever is interested. > > I haven't looked at the cards much yet, so I don't exactly know what's > there for I/O and memory cards. There might also be a power supply or two > and maybe an intact backplane bus card (the few I saw were snapped in > half). I know it's bad for to respond to my own message, but I found out some more info on the cards... Aparently, they were from a Purdue home-brew parallel processing machine called 'PASM' - for Purdue Advanced(?) SIMD/MIMD (or Purdue Adaptor for Machine if you prefer). The 'network input/output stage' cards seem to be buffered bus I/O cards (have a bunch of 74LS541's and 74LS244's + address decode logic). There's a journal article describing the machine that I'm going to pick up a copy of: "The Design and Prototyping of the PASM Reconfigurable Parallel Processing System" in 'Parallel Computing: Paradigms and Applications'. If you want more information availble online, try searching http://www.google.com/purdue for 'PASM'. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From als at thangorodrim.de Fri Jan 17 09:57:00 2003 From: als at thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:36 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: <1916458036.20030115204131@subatomix.com> References: <1916458036.20030115204131@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <20030117155820.GA23141@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> On Wed, Jan 15, 2003 at 08:41:31PM -0600, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > In my quest to cover every aspect, to think about every permutation of what > ClassicCmp *could* be in the future, I have yet another question to ask > ClassicCmp subscribers: What if ClassicCmp were a weblog, in the style of > Slashdot or Kuro5hin? > > I know many of you hold /. in disdain for whatever reason. I am not talking > about emulating the /. culture; I'm speaking only of its infrastructure, > purely in terms of being a web app for thread-based discussion. > > The basics, as they apply to ClassicCmp, are: > > - Posting and reading of messages would be doable from a web browser. An > email interface could be developed, but it wouldn't be the primary > method of participation. No. > - You would have an account with a username and password. No, thanks - even more username-password combos to keep track off. One will end up either reusing those (very dangerous practice) or writing them down (not much better). > - Your account would be used for other features on the site, such as > access to a data archives, using to a buy-and-sell arena, or > moderating others' posts. No need for that. Access to the archives should be free. A web-based marketplace should IMHO not be tighhtly coupled with the list. And frankly - I don't see the point in moderating posts around. No need to emulate /. > Right away, I see several benefits: > > - Members can participate from any computer with a web browser. Even lynx. There are some heretics here - probably a lot more than on other lists - who don't consider the WWW to be The Ultimate Interface (TM). And for good reason. I get/send my mail in nice handy batches via UUCP (although not via direct UUCP, but UUCP over TCP encrypted with SSL). EMail can be read (and replied) to at the readers leisure, using whatever tool (mutt, a very good textmode MUA in my case) prefers for the job. All the web mailers I've seen so far just plain suck, _especially_ when compared to good textmode MUA. The interface is slow, inflexible and just doesn't scale. I'm handling around 300-500 mails a day (skimming some, reading the interesting ones completely) - easy and quick task with the right tool but tedious work with a webinterface. And don't get me started on handling large folders (== 20000 mails and up - some lists are _very_ aktive) with bad tools (web interfaces or GUI MUAs). > - Anonymity and privacy can be more well-respected. The 'sender' of a > post is your username, not your email address. A system can be > implemented where another member can discover your email address only > after you give them permission to do so. Anonymity is seldom needed on mailinglists like this one and if it is, one should use proper tools, not try to hide behind this kind of flimsy screen. > - There's no worry about HTML, attachments, wierd character sets, spam, > virii, or cctech moderation delay. You'll strip all that crap out then? Fine. If not, things get worse. > - Your inbox receives less clutter. There are tools to deal with _that_ problem. For me, procmail does a great job sorting incoming mail into the right folders automatically - including dealing with spam (which gets tagged by SpamAssassin on my mailserver and dumped by procmail into a temporary holding folder). > - You spend less bandwidth on mail. And ten times as much on web traffic, right. > - With thread titles on the front page, casual web visitors will be more > tempted to subscribe. Can be done without messing up the list. Just subscribe a bot to the list, let it capture the thread titles and put them on a web page. Just a little bit of Perl will do that for you. > - It scales well as more members join and start posting. Mailing lists scale a lot better. > - The forum *is* the archive. Making an automatic archive is _trivial_: subscribe an archiving bot, thats what I've done with one of the lists SWMBO reads. In come the mails from the list, you get whatever archive you want (flat mbox, threaded webinterface, database, whatever). > - Features you want can be added in code, quickly. The current setup is > great for turn-key mailing lists and such, but it is tough to extend. What features are _needed_ that can not be done with the mailinglist? > The bad points I see are: > > - It's a huge change from the status quo. And an unnecessary one to boot. > We may lose some members. No. We _will_ lose members. > - Some people may find mailing lists more comfortable. Of course, an email > interface to the weblog could be developed. How about a one way gateway from the mailingliste to the web? A bot subscribed to the mailinglist updating a web-archive of the list. > What is your opinion? Let's answer this one in-list, please. Sorry to rain on your idea - but I don't think it is a good idea. Regards, Alex. -- "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 17 10:02:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:36 2005 Subject: IBM 5322 In-Reply-To: <32914.64.169.63.74.1042793389.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > Sellam writes about the IBM System/23: > > I think the real trick will be determining whether or not this has a > > serial port. If not, I'll have to look into sending it out the printer > > port. > > Don't count on the printer port having the same pinout as anything you've > ever seen before. I suppose there's a very small chance that it might > use the same connector and pinout as a PC, but more likely not. I don't doubt that it is something totally foreign to anything I have experienced before. That being said, as long as there's documentation somewhere, I should be able to decode it and use some sort of parallel interface board, or my 6522 board, to capture the signals on my Apple ][, process them, and then spit it out the serial port to a PC. > On the other hand, you should obviously ignore anything I have to say > about a 5322, since yesterday I was completely wrong about what kind > of computer it is. (I was foolish to expect IBM to maintain anything > like a consistent numbering scheme.) It was a reasonable guess ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From at258 at osfn.org Fri Jan 17 10:07:01 2003 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:36 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3E27892A.7E0B244D@compsys.to> Message-ID: P. T. Barnum. I don't think Bailey said anything, except possibly, "Get the fucking elephant off my foot!" On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > >Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > It'd be really hard for someone to enforce copyright if, say, everyone > > joined up in a cause to use a copyrighted work to death all over the > > world. > > > > For instance, everyone take Mickey Mouse and do something with it: make a > > new cartoon, introduce new characters based on him, write new stories, > > draw him in porn, etc. If thousands of people did this and disseminated > > it over the web, Disney wouldn't be able to do anything about it but turn > > to the courts. The courts would have a mess on their hands because the > > only recourse would be to shut the internet down. It could force the > > issue. Maybe. It's an idea. > > > > But something must be done. Blowing up Disney's world headquarters would > > make a nice statement. > > > > (Please note certain parts of this message are a copyrighted (c) 2003 > > work of fiction by the author ;) > > > > (Have to add that disclaimer in this day and age ;) > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > > Jerome Fine replies: > > I think that in order to be really effective, the number of people > doing what you suggest would need to be very large - i.e. at > least 50% of the population. If only 1% of the population were > involved, a small number could easily be prosecuted and the > rest would fall into line. > > BUT, if 50% of the population were involved, there is a MUCH > more effective solution - boycott Disney until they volunteer to > give up all copyrights under the terms of the previous rules - i.e. > what the old number of years was. No violence is required > and very little organization is required. Another method would > be to make it impossible for Disney enterprises to function by > some method that is quite legal. That requires more organization > but fewer people. > > Of course, it might be less satisfying than using violence, but think > of the power it would give to the consumer. Imagine if every > company was required to be truthful in all of their advertising? > Any claims that were made would actually be enforced? > > But I don't think that will not happen. Based on what I observe, > the more they are told stories that are "a blatant disregard for > the truth", the more the enjoy it. That might not be true with this > list, but my observations tend to confirm it with the majority of > the population. After all, most people who gamble LOSE!!! > > What do Barnum Bailey say? Is that the correct spelling? > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > -- > If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail > address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk > e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be > obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the > 'at' with the four digits of the current year. > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jan 17 11:21:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:36 2005 Subject: Mac Color Classic available. Message-ID: See below. Reply-to: gwilson188@earthlink.net -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 16:54:06 -0800 From: glwilson To: donate@vintage.org Subject: FW: Potential Donation I had to change my account due to a trashing. Please resond to glwilson00@earthlink.net. Thanks! Gloria > -----Original Message----- > From: Gloria Wilson [mailto:gloriawlsn@earthlink.net] > Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:12 PM > To: donate@vintage.org > Subject: Potential Donation > > I have a Mac Color Classic, with all the originial manuals and software, > one owner, in mint condition. It has the original 80MB HD, and 12MB ram, > of which 10MB is recognized by the OS. It has an external 45MB GCC > 40Ultra Drive, SCSI I interface, also in working order. I also have a > Bernoulli Transportable 150MB RCD (removable cartridge disk) unit, with > several functional RCD's. That was the precursor to IOMEGA Zip drives, but > reliable enough for Military use. It interfaces with either Mac or Dos > SCSI I. If there is any interest, please let me know how to proceed. > Gloria Wilson From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Jan 17 11:23:01 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:36 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030115223753.02d46180@pop.freeserve.net> <10301170834.ZM12220@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <002501c2be4d$a1542240$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: > I finally remembered to check mine. It's 23-ANC13-1000034. All Acorn > retail product serial numbers of the era are of that form. The 25 > tells where it was made, ANC13 is the product code, the rest is a > serial number, which always starts at 1000000 for production systems > or factory prototypes. So my Archimedes 310 is 27-AKB10-1000002, my > 440 is 27-AKB20-1000614, and my A3000 is 27-AKB01-1000028. Now that's interesting. My Master 128 carries the serial number 01-AMB15-0053025. Which means I've either got the -946975th machine to be made by Acorn, their labelling kit malfunctioned, or my M128 is the 53025th Master 128 to leave Acorn's factory. Ah, well. At least it hasn't got the serial number 13... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Jan 17 11:54:01 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:36 2005 Subject: VXT X terminal question In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FDFD@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl>; from Fred.van.Kempen@microwalt.nl on Fri, Jan 17, 2003 at 09:23:59 CET References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FDFD@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <20030117185330.A57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.01.17 09:23 Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > Specifically I wonder whether it would run on a KA43 (VS3100 M76). > Most likely not, because the -M76 is an NVAX box similar to the 4000 > series machines Sorry, no. The m76 has a Rigel. It isn't even similar to the VS4k. The VS4k machines have different Ethernet (SGEC insted of LANCE) and SCSI (asc insted of NCR). VS4k VLC has SOC VS4k60 has Mariah VS4k90 and above have NVAX MV4k200 has SOC MV3k100m40 has SOC MV3k100m8x has Mariah VAX4k300 has Rigel VAX4k400 and above as well as VAX4k1xx and MV3k100m9x have NVAX. Taken from http://www.netbsd.org/Documentation/Hardware/Machines/DEC/vax/sections.html > It might run on the 3100-M38, although I believe > that's a "non" 3100, too. VS3100 m30/38/40/48 are almost identical. The only differences are the enclosure and speed. > I would assume that they kept the CPU > support library as small as possible, meaning only the generic series > of machines they "sortof" intended the VXT software set for, i.e. the > 2000, 3100 and alike systems and their hardware features (as needed.) Looks so. It seams to support only NMOS-VAX (VS2k), CVAX (VS3100 m30/38/40/48) and maybe SOC. I think SOC is the CPU in the VXT2k. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From avickers at solutionengineers.com Fri Jan 17 12:15:01 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:36 2005 Subject: PET 2001 oddity Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030117180504.00b86e20@slave> I dug the 2001 out of the cupboard the other day - it's reorganise time, try to get *even more* stuff into exactly the same amount of space as less (but still lots of) stuff occupied. It never works, but it does give me an excellent excuse to have a play around with some of them. Unfortunately, the PET seems to have developed an odd fault: It won't take a BASIC program, and some keywords seem to be knackered... It reports 7167 bytes free, as per spec. But if I type: 10 REM blah or 10 ?"HELLO" it hangs. If I load a program from tape, it does one of two things: a) Loads but won't run, typing LIST produces something like this: 10 2 READY. b) It loads & hangs immediately after the READY. prompt comes up. I tried to put together a FOR loop (the idea being I could use it to display chunks of memory at a time, e.g. FORI=0TO10:?I;:NEXT Instead, the machine goes into an infinte loop displaying zero on a new line each time (it's ignored the I variable, and the semicolon after the PRINT command. If I replace NEXT with NEXTI, it fails reporting NEXT without FOR. So.... I figure the BASIC ROM has become slightly corrupted, OR I've got a flakey memory chip which reads OK but doesn't write properly. The question is, how to find out? 1) Can the BASIC ROM be swapped with one from, say, a 3032 or 4016? In fact, which one IS the BASIC ROM? 2) If it's a dodgy memory chip, what's the best way of isolating it? I have an oscilloscope, but nada skill in this sort of thing. 3) If, as my money is on, it's the BASIC ROM, can it be replaced with an EPROM - if so, there's a whole gamut of additional questions to follow.... Thanks in advance! -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From dtwright at uiuc.edu Fri Jan 17 12:16:01 2003 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:36 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <200301170824.DAA109992946@shell.TheWorld.com> References: <03c301c2bdea$ddbb1ee0$0100a8c0@primate> <200301170824.DAA109992946@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <20030117181950.GA7114502@uiuc.edu> Megan said: > > Ah, but why are you taking a copy? Is it perhaps because it has > value to you? That it entertains? If so, then someone had to > go through the process of creation to produce it. Not unlike > building a house. They deserve something to compensate them. Yes, they do...but please see below... > > >that makes a copy of something *may* be depriving an author of possibly > >income, but if someone is too cheap or really can't afford to buy it in > >the first place, "lost income" is just BS. > > That seems to be the general argument of the recent and current > generations... that just because they can't pay for something > shouldn't preclude them having it... "they are entitled to it". > > WRONG! If it has value to you, then pay for it. The problem is that the "theft" argument assumes that EVERY copy = 1 lost sale. This argument is total bullshit. Most people who copy music/movies/whatever wouldn't have bought it if they couldn't copy it, so no (or at best, very few -- FAR fewer then the number of copies that are made) actual SALES are lost. (If you don't believe me, there has been a lot of statistical research done that shows this; about the only contradiction comes from the RIAA's highly dubious closed-books "research". Sorry I don't have any sources at hand, but it's easy to find them on the WWW.) No lost sales means there's no equivalent to real-world theft, because no property is gone (the author/copyright owner still has their copy) and no money has been lost (because the copy wouldn't have been a sale, anyway). - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From root at parse.com Fri Jan 17 12:34:28 2003 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:36 2005 Subject: About Electronics Questions In-Reply-To: <3E2733B2.4000909@charter.net> from "James Rice" at Jan 16, 2003 04:35:30 PM Message-ID: <200301170259.VAA16288@parse.com> James Rice sez... > > Actually I've recently considered unsubscribing. I really don't care > for DEC's, big iron or mini's, no disrespect to those who do collect > them, but I no longer have the time to wade through all of the traffic. > I would really like to split the list into the "big iron" side and > "micro/workstation" side. I'm on some lists run out of the Low End Mac > site and really appreciate how Dan has divided his list by machine class > and topic. I've just started actively reading the list again after a few months out, and have no problems filtering -- I guess my main comment would be, "please use a filterable subject" -- at least filterable by humans. For example, if it doesn't have "pdp", or "dec" in the title, I just file it. Dead simple. Perhaps we could agree that the first word or two in the subject line would be the filter keyword. for example: Electronics: how do I unsolder a dead 2N2222? PDP: how has PDP-12's? PC: I need to fix my C64 disk drive... General: introduction etc... ??? Cheers, -RK > > James > > J.C.Wren wrote: > > Yea, that's a for-sure assessment. If this is the case, then perhaps > > what's considered "Off Topic" needs to be severely revisited. I'm all for > > things CC related, but where do you draw the line? And I kind of figured > > that the electronics classes might draw it's own brand of off-topicisms. > > One can see a siderail into microcontrollers (they are computing devices, > > and they are over 10 years old). Does everyone else want to read about > > them? Or just "real" classic computers? > > > > My thinking it was more out of consideration for others than segration > > because y'all who don't subscribe are no longer good enough. > > > > --John > > > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > >>[mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > >>Behalf Of Jay West > >>Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 16:57 > >>To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >>Subject: Re: About Electronics Questions > >> > >> > >> > >>>And while we're about it, let's also have > >>>IBM-maingrams@classicmp.org (so those who don't have room for such a > >>>machine don't have to read about them) > >>> > >>>Minis@classiccmp.org (so the home-computer enthusiasts don't have to > >>>read about PDP11s) > >>> > >>>PCs@classiccmp.org (so those who believe that no IBM clone is ever > >>>'classic' don't get bothered with messages about them) > >>> > >>>Cleaning-plastic@classiccmp.org > >>> > >>>Metalwork@classiccmp.org (for people who want to make new mechanical > >>>parts for their printers and disk drives) > >> > >>Wow, I've never seen my sarcasm meter quite so pegged. I > >>think it's broken > >>now due to overload *GRIN* > >> > >>Jay West > >> > >>--- > >>[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > > > > > > > > > -- Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com From mhstein at canada.com Fri Jan 17 12:35:40 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:36 2005 Subject: About Electronics Questions - and Thanks! Message-ID: <01C2BDC9.C876CBE0@mse-d03> --------------------Original message------------------ From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Subject: Re: About Electronics Questions To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 21:36:13 +0000 (GMT) Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org e.g.: Cleaning-plastic@classiccmp.org Love it! More seriously, one of the great things about classiccmp is that it _is_ one list, and all sorts of loosely-related discussions go on here. I've learnt a lot from threads about machines that I am not particularly interested in... -tony ------------------------------------- Couldn't agree more! I'm on the digest list, and download several times a day to read my email off-line. If I have time, I read the entire digest and have indeed learned a lot from posts I wouldn't normally be interested in and often skip over when I don't have time. Let's not get too fussy about what's OT and what's not. Actually, except for the recent digression about muscle cars, it's been pretty civilized lately; thanks guys (and gals, although the ladies have never been a problem :) And while I'm at it, I'd like to sincerely thank Tony for all the useful tips and information he's given us; as he mentioned, he often takes considerable time to look things up, and we should all show our appreciation. Also to Don Maslin for his generous help with obscure disks, Grumpy Old Fred for a lot of his tips, and everyone else who's taken a little extra time and made an extra effort to help us all out in some way. Thanks, guys (and gals)! But if there's a way to strip the HTML from the double-format messages, that'd be a good thing. mike From mhstein at canada.com Fri Jan 17 12:36:29 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:36 2005 Subject: HD quality (was: Maxtor drive goes under) Message-ID: <01C2BDC9.CCA77D40@mse-d03> -----------Original message--------------- Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:06:29 -0800 (PDT) From: Brian Chase To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Maxtor drive goes under Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > The drive we were having problems > > with were 2 and 4 gig drives. These had a servo information > > corruption problem ( that by design would always fail over time ). > > Guess that rules out Kalok then. They bit the big one in 1994, way before > 2GB and 4GB drives started appearing... I'm going to guess Micropolis. Those drives were absolutely crap. -brian. --------------------------------------------- And then there was JTS... Other than Kalok and JTS, the only drives I consistently had problems with were the old ST-200 series Seagates. Mind you, they ran 24/7 for several years, but ultimately all (4 or 5) developed the stickies. Always embarrassing, because the systems were only shut down by me doing some kind of maintenance or mods, the old "but it worked fine until you touched it" syndrome. Fortunately, all they needed was a little prying & twisting with a small screwdriver on the spindle to free them up, and remarkably, they worked fine again with no problems or errors (to my great relief, and until the next time I shut them down). No problems with the old miniscribes though, still have a box full, all working, and no unusual failure rates with Micropolis either; it really is a matter of personal experience, not very meaningful statistically. And Philip, I'm going to write you directly about that paper tape stuff as soon as I sort it out; promise! mike From mhstein at canada.com Fri Jan 17 12:37:16 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:36 2005 Subject: Sellam's relief valve (no doubt well lubricated :) Message-ID: <01C2BDCA.3AB85E80@mse-d03> ---------------------Original message------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:25:57 -0600 (CST) From: Doc Shipley To: Classic Computers Mailing List Subject: Re: (no subject) Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Sellam, Sometimes you just need to shut the fuck up. I generally just delete and move on, but it gets to me. This mailing list is not your personal relief valve. The fact that you have a keyboard really *doesn't* entitle you to insult at will. Grow up, man! Doc --------------------------------------------------------------- Whoa! What'd he say? Ya shoulda copied the offensive remarks. mike From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Jan 17 12:38:03 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:36 2005 Subject: Mac TV In-Reply-To: <001b01c2bdb2$01757b20$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: > Oh, that's the one alright. Nice looking thing. Might make a nice > case for a > Performa or some other Logic Board. From freddy at kotelna.sk Fri Jan 17 12:38:50 2003 From: freddy at kotelna.sk (Adrien Farkas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:37 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? Message-ID: <20030117174813.GC32129@kotol.kotelna.sk> Hello, I'm owner of Mac SE/30 (asked regarding broken CRT tube a while ago). Can aynone supply me with a list of accessories that can be inserted into the slot? www.apple.com didn't help me very much, and the only card I saw is 10base2/10baseT ethernet. are there any videocards for se/30? or some other equip? Cheers, -- freddy ...for more info 'finger freddy@kotol.kotelna.sk' From acme at ao.net Fri Jan 17 12:39:37 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:37 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? Message-ID: <200301171827.NAA10492@eola.ao.net> From: Jeffrey Sharp Date: 01/15/2003 11:56 PM > Surely anything that can run a mail client can run lynx... False. The two systems I use for email do not support VT-100 emulation (AFAIK) hence no Lynx on my email machines (the Kaypro 10 which I'm using to compose and send this message, and a Zenith Z-100). Glen 0/0 From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Jan 17 12:41:03 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: VXT X terminal question In-Reply-To: <20030117185330.A57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <000601c2be57$d98fd730$cb87fe3e@athlon> > MV3k100m8x has Mariah Just to nitpick but although the UV3100-80 is indeed based on the Mariah chipset, the UV3100-85 and UV3100-88 are both NVAX-based IIRC. The -85 has the NVAX VIC disabled by the console during initialisation. I forget whether the -88 was slugged in the same way or not. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From marvin at rain.org Fri Jan 17 12:41:55 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: (no subject) References: <03c301c2bdea$ddbb1ee0$0100a8c0@primate> <200301170824.DAA109992946@shell.TheWorld.com> <20030117181950.GA7114502@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <3E284E3C.8286798D@rain.org> Dan Wright wrote: > > > The problem is that the "theft" argument assumes that EVERY copy = 1 lost > sale. This argument is total bullshit. Most people who copy > music/movies/whatever wouldn't have bought it if they couldn't copy it, so no > (or at best, very few -- FAR fewer then the number of copies that are made) > actual SALES are lost. (If you don't believe me, there has been a lot of > statistical research done that shows this; about the only contradiction comes > from the RIAA's highly dubious closed-books "research". Sorry I don't have > any sources at hand, but it's easy to find them on the WWW.) No lost sales > means there's no equivalent to real-world theft, because no property is gone > (the author/copyright owner still has their copy) and no money has been lost > (because the copy wouldn't have been a sale, anyway). The theft argument assumes *ONLY* that someone is taking something that doesn't belong to them without paying for it. Rationalizing theft by saying that copy wouldn't have been bought anyway has no bearing on the fact that it is *theft*. The "no lost sales" argument (probably on both sides of the issue) is just a tangent. The same arguments have been made for stealing software. From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Jan 17 12:43:08 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: Mac Color Classic available. References: Message-ID: <00da01c2be58$44562150$e70cdd40@oemcomputer> Looking for the CCII if anyone ever sees one here in the States. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 11:21 AM Subject: Mac Color Classic available. > > See below. > > Reply-to: gwilson188@earthlink.net > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 16:54:06 -0800 > From: glwilson > To: donate@vintage.org > Subject: FW: Potential Donation > > I had to change my account due to a trashing. Please resond to > glwilson00@earthlink.net. > Thanks! > Gloria > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gloria Wilson [mailto:gloriawlsn@earthlink.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:12 PM > > To: donate@vintage.org > > Subject: Potential Donation > > > > I have a Mac Color Classic, with all the originial manuals and software, > > one owner, in mint condition. It has the original 80MB HD, and 12MB ram, > > of which 10MB is recognized by the OS. It has an external 45MB GCC > > 40Ultra Drive, SCSI I interface, also in working order. I also have a > > Bernoulli Transportable 150MB RCD (removable cartridge disk) unit, with > > several functional RCD's. That was the precursor to IOMEGA Zip drives, but > > reliable enough for Military use. It interfaces with either Mac or Dos > > SCSI I. If there is any interest, please let me know how to proceed. > > Gloria Wilson > > > From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Fri Jan 17 12:53:30 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? References: <1916458036.20030115204131@subatomix.com> <20030117155820.GA23141@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> Message-ID: <3E2851C8.4060303@Vishay.com> Alexander Schreiber wrote: > On Wed, Jan 15, 2003 at 08:41:31PM -0600, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: >> - Some people may find mailing lists more comfortable. Of course, an email >> interface to the weblog could be developed. > > > How about a one way gateway from the mailingliste to the web? A bot > subscribed to the mailinglist updating a web-archive of the list. Yes, please! - And with a full-text search engine to allow for retrieval of knowledge that had been asked for earlier, so I don't need to ask the same question again. OTOH, Google sometimes seems to do a fairly good job for this purpose. So maybe we already have everything we need? -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 17 12:55:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? In-Reply-To: <20030117174813.GC32129@kotol.kotelna.sk> Message-ID: >into the slot? www.apple.com didn't help me very much, and the only card >I saw is 10base2/10baseT ethernet. are there any videocards for se/30? >or some other equip? There was at least one video card made for the SE/30, I've got one in mine, and I've got a SCSI-to-Ethernet adapter for network access. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jan 17 13:23:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: IBM 5322 In-Reply-To: <1042773014.2178.0.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: > > The next thing will be to figure out how to export the data from this > > machine to a PC. > Which will be even more exciting given the fact that the /23 uses EBCDIC > and not ASCII for character codes. If and when you get the physical bytes from one machine to the other, conversion between EBCDIC and ASCII is truly trivial. Think XLAT From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Jan 17 13:26:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: Harddrive collectors In-Reply-To: <20836.1042738996@www45.gmx.net>; from P.Gebhardt@gmx.de on Thu, Jan 16, 2003 at 18:43:16 CET References: <20836.1042738996@www45.gmx.net> Message-ID: <20030117200853.E57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.01.16 18:43 P.Gebhardt@gmx.de wrote: > I'm a guy (20) from Germany Jungspund. ;-) > and what I like is collecting old harddrives. If you ever get specs for a: Seagate "Elite" (ST41097j or ST41201j) EquipNo PA4A2A PartNo 70525902 ItemNo 70896712 _pease_ mail it to me. This drive is a 5.25" FH, 1 GB SMD disk that I would like to get working on one of my VAXen. The 9" / 1 GB NEC drives are nice, but draw a litle to much power (200 W). -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From simona at 428wilson.com Fri Jan 17 13:38:00 2003 From: simona at 428wilson.com (Simon Allaway) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E285C3F.6010309@428wilson.com> Zane H. Healy wrote: > There was at least one video card made for the SE/30, I've got one in mine, > and I've got a SCSI-to-Ethernet adapter for network access. I remember the first Mac I used back in '89 was an SE/30 with a grey-scale (8 bit) card made by RasterOps. It had a grey-scale monitor to go with it too. That was when the Apple LaserWriter had more RAM than the machine that was printing! Aaah, the smell of ozone. Simon From spc at conman.org Fri Jan 17 13:48:00 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <200301170824.DAA109992946@shell.TheWorld.com> from "Megan" at Jan 17, 2003 03:24:27 AM Message-ID: <200301171951.OAA01568@conman.org> I think one reason why many people are upset at Disney over copyright is they they themselves have reaped much from the public domain---Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, The Little Mermaid, Hunchback of Notre Dame, Mulan but *none* of their works have in turned, been returned to the public domain to enrich the culture. Even "Steamboat Willie," the first work to (maybe) hit the public domain, was itself a copyright violation of a movie called "Steamboat Bill" (and the original script for "Steamboat Willie" even makes mention of "Steamboat Bill"). It's this hypocracy that is so upsetting. I have nothing against copyright, but I do have a problem with how it is currently being handled. Life of the author *plus* 70 years? 95 years for a work for hire? Technically that is a "limited time" but then again, so is "a million years" and Congress has the authority to do such a thing (from the recent decision in the Eldred vs. Ashcroft case). If this keeps up, then we might find ourselves in a situation described in "Melancholy Elephants" by Spider Robinson: http://www.baen.com/chapters/W200011/0671319744___1.htm -spc (And I find it odd that Disney has contributed campaign funds to Senator Fritz Hollings of South Carolina---since when has the Disney Corporation lived in South Carolina? Unless it's for other, legislative reasons ... ) From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jan 17 13:59:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn Message-ID: <20030117200212.28990.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com> >>I just checked - mine's S/N 0184 according to the label where the cable comes >>out. If that started at 0 I guess they made a few... > >Hmm. That sounds like the PSU serial number. Mine is 0119. I have another >white >sticker on the underside o the box itself, full number >25-anc13-1000038. (Which matches the format of the computer serial numbers.) sorry - my mistake. I saw the s/n label and figured that was the main number for the whole unit. just checked mine again and it's 25-ANC13-1000049 have lost the original post from the person who had the last unit to see where that fits into the scheme of things. :-( cheers Jules __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From spc at conman.org Fri Jan 17 14:03:00 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20030117181950.GA7114502@uiuc.edu> from "Dan Wright" at Jan 17, 2003 12:19:50 PM Message-ID: <200301172005.PAA01624@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Dan Wright once stated: > > > WRONG! If it has value to you, then pay for it. > > The problem is that the "theft" argument assumes that EVERY copy = 1 lost > sale. This argument is total bullshit. Most people who copy > music/movies/whatever wouldn't have bought it if they couldn't copy it, so no > (or at best, very few -- FAR fewer then the number of copies that are made) > actual SALES are lost. (If you don't believe me, there has been a lot of > statistical research done that shows this; about the only contradiction comes > from the RIAA's highly dubious closed-books "research". Sorry I don't have > any sources at hand, but it's easy to find them on the WWW.) From my "The Lie that copying hurts sales" file: http://www.counterpunch.org/flint0419.html ("Sell-through" refers to the percentage of copies shipped which are actually sold, as opposed to being returned to the publisher.) As of today, according to Baen Books-a year and a half after being available for free online to anyone who wants it, no restrictions and no questions asked-Mother of Demons has sold about 18,500 copies and now has a sell-through of 65%. I would like someone to explain to me how almost doubling the sales and improving the sell-through by 11% has caused me, as an author, any harm? http://www.janisian.com/article-internet_debacle Let's take it from my personal experience. My site (www.janisian.com) gets an average of 75,000 hits a year. Not bad for someone whose last hit record was in 1975. When Napster was running full-tilt, we received about 100 hits a month from people who'd downloaded _Society's Child_ or _At Seventeen_ for free, then decided they wanted more information. Of those 100 people (and these are only the ones who let us know how they'd found the site), 15 bought CDs. Not huge sales, right? No record company is interested in 180 extra sales a year. But ... that translates into $2700, which is a lot of money in my book. And that doesn't include the ones who bought the CDs in stores, or who came to my shows. Or take author Mercedes Lackey, who occupies entire shelves in stores and libraries. As she said herself: "For the past ten years, my three 'Arrows' books, which were published by DAW about 15 years ago, have been generating a nice, steady royalty check per pay-period each. A reasonable amount, for fifteen-year-old books. However ... I just got the first half of my DAW royalties ... And suddenly, out of nowhere, each Arrows book has paid me three times the normal amount! ... And the _only_ change during that pay-period was that I had Eric put the first of my books on the Free Library. There's an increase in all of the books on that statement, actually, and what it looks like is what I'd expect to happen if a steady line of people who'd never read my stuff encountered it on the Free Library-a certain percentage of them liked it, and started to work through my backlist, beginning with the earliest books published. The really interesting thing is, of course, that these aren't Baen books, they're DAW-another publisher-so it's 'name loyalty' rather than "brand loyalty." I'll tell you what, I'm sold. Free works." I've found that to be true myself; every time we make a few songs available on my website, sales of all the CDs go up. A lot. And I don't know about you, but as an artist with an in-print record catalogue that dates back to 1965, I'd be thrilled to see sales on my old catalogue rise. http://www.janisian.com/article-fallout.html Change in merchandise sales after article posting (previous sales averaged over one year): Up 25% Change in merchandise sales after beginning free downloads: Up 300% Emails received: 1268 as of 07-30-02 Number of emails disagreeing with my position: 9 Number of people who reconsidered their disagreement after further discussion: 5 -spc (Now isn't *that* interesting ... ) From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri Jan 17 14:10:01 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: VXT X terminal question Message-ID: <0301172013.AA01729@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Jochen Kunz wrote: > Sorry, no. The m76 has a Rigel. Yes. > Looks so. It seams to support only NMOS-VAX (VS2k), CVAX (VS3100 > m30/38/40/48) and maybe SOC. I think SOC is the CPU in the VXT2k. Yes, VXT2000 has SOC. Last night I finally downloaded the whole VXT software and ran strings(1) on the VXTEX image, and I see mention of three machines: VS2000, VT1300, and VXT2000. VT1300 is the CVAX-based KA42-A, the same system board as in VS3100 M30. Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > It might run on the 3100-M38, although I believe > that's a "non" 3100, too. VS3100 M38 differs from VS3100 M30 (which is the same hardware as VT1300 except for the latter lacking the mass storage controller board) only in speed (M30 has 90 ns cycle time giving you 2.8 VUPs and M38 has 60 ns cycle time giving you 3.8 VUPs). VS3100 M30 is KA42-A and VS3100 M38 is KA42-B. The difference between the two boards are a different crystal oscillator, KA42-B has chips rated for higher speed, and a byte or two in the ROM is twiddled. > I would assume that they kept the CPU > support library as small as possible, meaning only the generic series > of machines they "sortof" intended the VXT software set for, i.e. the > 2000, 3100 and alike systems and their hardware features (as needed.) This is all true, but I'm still wondering about VS3100 M76. Although it has a different CPU chip (Rigel), other than knowing about its SID code, supporting a different CPU chip entails nothing more than slightly different cache control and machine check handling. In every other way VS3100 M76 (KA43) was designed to be a direct successor to earlier models (KA42). In particular all hardware other than the CPU chip, i.e., what the bulk of system code is concerned with, is absolutely unchanged. But the million dollar question remains: what will the existing VXT boot image do upon detecting SID top byte equal to 0B? Will it scream and give up, or will it treat it as a VS3100/VT1300? > Yup, it's basically some "NanoVMS" kernel, with minimal runtime and a > VMS DECwindows subset. Are you sure it's based on VMS and not Ultrix? Doing strings(1) on the VXTEX image showed a few bits that bring Ultrix to mind. Of course any Ultrixisms would not be in M76's favor, as DEC had the stupidity to make Ultrix not run on M76, almost artificially I have to say. Having a copy of the Ultrix V4.20 sources has given me the pleasure (and disgust) of seeing just why. Its CPU type determination logic simply assumes that everything with a Rigel CPU must be a VAX 6400! So when you try to boot it on a VS3100 M76, it goes looking for XMI... If that logic were tweaked to treat KA43 as KA42, it would have probably worked. (And if someone added a couple dozen lines to the KA42 code to handle Rigel/KA43 machine checks and cache ops, it would have worked solid.) > Which means (methinks..) that it most likely > wasnt stripped from its GPX and SPX(+) drivers. Not most likely, but absolutely certain. VXT2000 video *is* SPX, so it has to have the SPX driver. VT1300 was color, so it had to have some add-on video board, and I think it was GPX, not SPX. Oh, and it works on VS2000, which would certainly have GPX and not SPX. So both GPX and SPX drivers are most certainly there. The only concern is that if the real DEC VT1300 indeed had GPX and not SPX, would it accept a VS3100 with SPX. It should unless some asshole artificially blocked the SPX driver in the VT1300 configuration. (But the latter possibility seems unlikely given how they even supported VS2000.) > Dang! Now you got me curious. I have all three (2000,M38 and M76) so > will set them up tonight or tomorrow and see what they do. I would greatly appreciate a test on VS3100 M76. I want to put together my own VXT X terminal and I'm inclined to do it on a VS3100 rather than VXT2000 hardware. If I could use an M76 instead of M30 or M38, it would be great. MS From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Jan 17 14:15:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: Unauthorized copying In-Reply-To: <3E284E3C.8286798D@rain.org> References: <03c301c2bdea$ddbb1ee0$0100a8c0@primate> <200301170824.DAA109992946@shell.TheWorld.com> <20030117181950.GA7114502@uiuc.edu> <3E284E3C.8286798D@rain.org> Message-ID: <2517.4.20.168.156.1042834694.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Marvin wrote: > The theft argument assumes *ONLY* that someone is taking something that > doesn't belong to them without paying for it. Generally doesn't apply to software. Theft is when Bob takes an item away from Fred, without Fred's consent, such that at the conclusion of this "transaction" Bob has the item and Fred does not. Fred is denied the posession of the item; it has been stolen from him. Unauthorized copying of software, music, data, and ideas don't fit that model. Bob can make a copy of Fred's software, but this act does not deny Fred the posession of the original. Unauthorized copying is, under some (but not all) cirucumstances, illegal and/or unethical, but it is NOT theft. It is a different sort of offsense. Note that I am NOT claiming that unauthorized copying is justified. Legal "remedies" for unauthorized copying are now completely out of proportion to the nature of the offense. For example, see this comment on Slashdot: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=50736&cid=5085804 From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Jan 17 14:25:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: VXT X terminal question In-Reply-To: <000601c2be57$d98fd730$cb87fe3e@athlon>; from arcarlini@iee.org on Fri, Jan 17, 2003 at 19:40:03 CET References: <20030117185330.A57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <000601c2be57$d98fd730$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: <20030117204112.G57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.01.17 19:40 Antonio Carlini wrote: > Just to nitpick but although the UV3100-80 is indeed > based on the Mariah chipset, the UV3100-85 and > UV3100-88 are both NVAX-based IIRC. Ahh, thanks for the correction. I just extrapolated. > The -85 has the > NVAX VIC disabled by the console during initialisation. VIC??? -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri Jan 17 14:33:00 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: Musings on BabyVAX video Message-ID: <0301172036.AA01772@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Hi again folks, Thinking about the VS3100/VT1300/VXT matters brought up another question that has nagged me for a while. How much compatibility is there between KA410 (VS2000), KA42 (VS3100 M30/38/40/48), and KA43 (VS3100 M76) as far as video boards go? I mean GPX and SPX. (Were there others?) I know that the 4-plane and 8-plane GPX boards were originally designed for VS2K, and I'm pretty sure that the VS3100 ones are the same as the VS2000 ones, which implies that the video option connector on KA42 has to be identical to the one on KA410. But now comes SPX. I have seen many VS3100 M76 SPX machines, and SPX appears to have been pretty standard on these machines. But I have questions. Does the SPX board also work on earlier VS3100s and on VS2000? I seem to recall from somewhere that the answer is yes for VS3100 and no for VS2000. Could someone confirm? And how about the other way around? Can M76 use GPX? No video option at all? (I seem to recall that base mono video was removed on KA43.) This makes me wonder about the nature of interface between the system board and the video option. Since it originates from VS2K, common sense says that it has to be 16-bit EDAL, since that's all VS2K had. But then there is the DTJ article about the design of VS4000 M90 where they've used a version of SPX that attaches directly to 32-bit CDAL. Furthermore, they just lifted their SPX design from the VXT2000 where it also attached directly to CDAL. Hmm. Did the original SPX used in all these VS3100 M76s also attach to CDAL? Then how can the video option connector, which at least mechanically hasn't changed since KA410, be sometimes EDAL and at other times CDAL? Were there a lot of unused pins on the original KA410 connector that were made into upper 16 bits which are used sometimes but not at other times? But then if turning CDAL into EDAL were only a matter of using only lower 16 bits, why did they design a much more complex chip (SEAC) for this very purpose in VS4000 M90 (see the DTJ article)? Just a hardware-minded hacker being curious. MS From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri Jan 17 14:44:00 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: VXT X terminal question Message-ID: <0301172047.AA01790@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Antonio Carlini wrote: > Just to nitpick but although the UV3100-80 is indeed > based on the Mariah chipset, the UV3100-85 and > UV3100-88 are both NVAX-based IIRC. The -85 has the > NVAX VIC disabled by the console during initialisation. > I forget whether the -88 was slugged in the same way or not. Thanks for filling us in on the dirty secret. I thought DEC learned their lesson with VS II/RC. (Suddenly everyone needed a replacement BA23 backplane...) DEC is still my favourite hardware vendor of all time, but this artificial hobbling of hardware is a real black eye for them. Think about hobbling the (perfectly standard and generic) KA410 SCSI port to only one TK50Z drive, or the "strategic decision" to make VS3100 M76 run only VMS and not Ultrix. (Jumping on my horse again, making Ultrix run on VS3100 M76 would take a screenful of code. I have the source if anyone wants to take a stab.) MS From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri Jan 17 14:46:01 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: VXT X terminal question Message-ID: <0301172048.AA01797@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Jochen Kunz wrote: > VIC??? Virtual Instruction Cache. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jan 17 15:00:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: "Philip Pemberton" "Re: Update: BBC Acorn" (Jan 17, 8:01) References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030115223548.02a74bc8@pop.freeserve.net> <003601c2bdfe$b03373a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <10301172058.ZM20997@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 17, 8:01, Philip Pemberton wrote: > BTW, does anyone know what the small raised bar on > the EPROM sockets is for? The early cartridges were made with a form of low exteaction force sockets -- a kind of poor man's ZIF, designed to make it easier to extract the ROMs. You've probably got those. You put a small screwdriver blade in, against the bar, and twist (only when there's a chip in the socket!!) > BTW, has anyone got a spare BBC Master Series User's Manual? The one that > covers the Master 128? It's called the Master Series Welcome Guide. No, I'm not parting with mine just yet :-) > I'd also like to find out what ROMs the > ROM cartridges will accept - I've used 27128s and 27256s, anyone know if > anything else will work? AFAIR, 2732s should work, 2764s certainly work, and then up to 27128 is officially supported. You can use 27256s and *possibly* 27512s if you program them appropriately. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jan 17 15:00:57 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: "Philip Pemberton" "Re: Update: BBC Acorn" (Jan 17, 17:26) References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030115223753.02d46180@pop.freeserve.net> <10301170834.ZM12220@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <002501c2be4d$a1542240$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <10301172103.ZM21440@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 17, 17:26, Philip Pemberton wrote: > pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: > > I finally remembered to check mine. It's 23-ANC13-1000034. All Acorn > > retail product serial numbers of the era are of that form. The 25 > > tells where it was made, ANC13 is the product code, the rest is a > > serial number, which always starts at 1000000 for production systems > > or factory prototypes. So my Archimedes 310 is 27-AKB10-1000002, my > > 440 is 27-AKB20-1000614, and my A3000 is 27-AKB01-1000028. > Now that's interesting. My Master 128 carries the serial number > 01-AMB15-0053025. Which means I've either got the -946975th machine to be > made by Acorn, their labelling kit malfunctioned, or my M128 is the 53025th > Master 128 to leave Acorn's factory. Ah, well. At least it hasn't got the > serial number 13... I wrote "of the era". Your Master predates ARM systems by a few years. My oldest Beeb is 0000672. And will the ***** who borrowed it please return it, if you're reading this? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Jan 17 15:18:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: VXT X terminal question In-Reply-To: <20030117204112.G57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <000001c2be6e$54f5a560$cb87fe3e@athlon> FWIW my recollection is that the UV3100-88, UV3100-98 and VAX 4000-108A are the same hardware as the UV3100-85, UV3100-96 and VAX 4000-106A but respun to fit in a PC-style case (and, for at least some options, using PCI connectors but *NOT* a PCI bus). > > The -85 has the > > NVAX VIC disabled by the console during initialisation. > VIC??? Virtual Instruction Cache. The NVAX cache hierarchy goes something like: 2KB VIC, an 8KB P-cache (on-chip: can do Instructions, Data or both according to config) and up to 2MB of write-back B-cache (this one is external to the NVAX chip itself). It's possible to enable and disable the various caches. The VIC can be disabled by "patching" the NVAX in some dynamic way (presumably non-reversibly or at least only reversible in an obscure way). I don't think the same can be done for the P-cache an the B-cache is physically fitted to the board so, short of grabbing a soldering iron, you are stuck with what the system came with. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From liste at artware.qc.ca Fri Jan 17 15:24:40 2003 From: liste at artware.qc.ca (liste@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: Looking for : Sharp PC-1405 Message-ID: Or equiv (Tandy had them as PC-2 or something, iirc). The goal of my classic collection is to get one of every computer I've programmed over the years. One of the first computers I programmed was a PC-1405 (actually, I can't remember the exact model). I found one of these in a pawn shop. By brother "stole" it. I found another. This was my one classic computer that was helluva useful. So useful I took it with my places. And, well, I've just lost it. I've checked eBay and there are a few Sharp Pocket Computers, but W@W L@@K @ T3H PR1C3Z! Buy it now for "only" 300 USD! http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3000156764&category=15030 So, does anyone here have one they don't need and/or would be willing to let go for a reasonable price? -Philip From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Fri Jan 17 15:34:00 2003 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: HP 5423A analyzer References: <00bc01c2bdab$3efcb000$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <078b01c2be70$96e3a0b0$0101a8c0@athlon> Jay- you're on track. Simplistically- it's a low frequency spectrum analyser (FFT type)- coverage zero to 25 kHz and dynamic range of 80 dB(or thereabouts) But it's really a lot more than that as it's a two channel instrument and can do all sorts of other stuff as well. If you really don't want it I imagine you won't have too much of a problem selling it. Sort of thing I would have given my eye teeth for a while back. Now-- all the eye teeth have fallen out!!! Dave Brown CHCH, NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 11:04 AM Subject: HP 5423A analyzer > I just receive an HP 5423A Structural Dynamics Analyzer. I have no interest > in it, but being curious, what the heck is it used for?? From googling I get > the impression it does fourier modal testing? > > Jay "Idly curious" West > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From liste at artware.qc.ca Fri Jan 17 15:37:26 2003 From: liste at artware.qc.ca (liste@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: About Electronics Questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Another question would be : where should one go to discuss electronics? I have 2 projects I'd like some feedback on : repairing an ancient guitar tube amp (specifically, I think the caps in the power supply are hosored, causing a loud humm... but where to buy high voltage caps of non-standard capcitance?), and I'd really like to get into PIC programming. I'd really like to have a resource where I can ask all the newbie questions that crop up. (Yes, I've RTFMed, but far to often there's little subtle things that aren't obvious, but that someone with experience will know. On 16-Jan-2003 Tony Duell wrote: > Perhaps it should be user-programmable (or patchable in the case of > an analogue machine). This would rule out embedded microcontorllers, > but would allow computers based round microcontrollers (the Philips > G7000 (Magnavox something-or-other) has an 8048 as the main CPU, but I > don't think many would call it a microcontroller, for example). Odessey? -Philip From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Jan 17 15:39:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: Looking for : Sharp PC-1405 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3E28872B.29785.6E809F63@localhost> > I found one of these in a pawn shop. By brother "stole" it. I found > another. This was my one classic computer that was helluva useful. So > useful I took it with my places. And, well, I've just lost it. I've > checked eBay and there are a few Sharp Pocket Computers, but W@W L@@K @ > T3H PR1C3Z! Buy it now for "only" 300 USD! > http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3000156764&category=15030 Well for 300 as 'Buy Now' is a reasonable price ... I'd be more than willing to split at that price. You should bet ... err ... bid on there, the actual bid is 'only' 25 bucks. > So, does anyone here have one they don't need and/or would be willing to > let go for a reasonable price? contact me off list, I might have a 1246S or 1248, they are simpler and smaler Units from the same family. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From jim at calico.litterbox.com Fri Jan 17 15:42:00 2003 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: VXT X terminal question In-Reply-To: <0301172047.AA01790@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: > VS3100 M76 run only VMS and not Ultrix. Which one was the M76? I know I've seen 3100s running Ultrix, but I couldn't swear to the CPU number. From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Fri Jan 17 15:43:00 2003 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? References: Message-ID: <07a601c2be71$d6afe9f0$0101a8c0@athlon> Still got a 20 inch monochrome monitor and it's driver videocard here-used it with an SE/30 way back- made by Viking I think. Dave B CH CH, NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 7:58 AM Subject: Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? > > >into the slot? www.apple.com didn't help me very much, and the only card > >I saw is 10base2/10baseT ethernet. are there any videocards for se/30? > >or some other equip? > > There was at least one video card made for the SE/30, I've got one in mine, > and I've got a SCSI-to-Ethernet adapter for network access. > > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Jan 17 15:45:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: Musings on BabyVAX video In-Reply-To: <0301172036.AA01772@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <000101c2be72$342340f0$cb87fe3e@athlon> > Thinking about the VS3100/VT1300/VXT matters brought up > another question that has nagged me for a while. How much > compatibility is there between KA410 (VS2000), KA42 (VS3100 > M30/38/40/48), and KA43 (VS3100 M76) as far as video boards > go? I mean GPX and SPX. (Were there others?) That's the lot (at least for KA42/KA43 - the later VS4K series had further developments of the SPX available at least). > I know that the 4-plane and 8-plane GPX boards were > originally designed for VS2K, and I'm pretty sure that the > VS3100 ones are the same as the VS2000 ones, which implies > that the video option connector on KA42 has to be identical > to the one on KA410. I think the origins of the GPX go back to the QDSS Q-bus board set as used in the VAXstation II (the "Dragon" chipset). I don't know whether that was itself derived from the QVSS original monochrome Q-bus graphics. > But now comes SPX. I have seen many VS3100 M76 SPX machines, > and SPX appears to have been pretty standard on these > machines. But I have questions. Does the SPX board also work > on earlier VS3100s and on VS2000? I seem to recall from > somewhere that the answer is yes for VS3100 and no for > VS2000. My recollection is that the same GPX board was indeed used on the KA410 and KA42s. That was the VS40X-MA. > Could someone confirm? And how about the other way > around? Can M76 use GPX? No video option at all? (I seem to > recall that base mono video was removed on KA43.) I'm pretty sure that a VS3100-76 with no graphics board *will* come up using onboard monochrome (use the green signal). I don't think I've ever actually used one this way, but I do know that the GPX and SPX options came with a little stick-on panel that said either "GPX" or "SPX" in about the right size and font to stick right after the "VAXstation 3100 M76" nameplate. > This makes me wonder about the nature of interface between > the system board and the video option. Since it originates > from VS2K, common sense says that it has to be 16-bit EDAL, > since that's all VS2K had. But then there is the DTJ article The VS2K tech manual describes the interface there and the connector pins etc. are all in there. > about the design of VS4000 M90 where they've used a version > of SPX that attaches directly to 32-bit CDAL. Furthermore, > they just lifted their SPX design from the VXT2000 where it > also attached directly to CDAL. Hmm. Did the original SPX > used in all these VS3100 M76s also attach to CDAL? Then how I *think* that in the KA42 systems, they converted from CDAL to EDAL (or whatever) as necessary. The KA43 was a Rigel chip shoe-horned into a CVAX system, so they did something to convert the Rigel bus (RDAL?) to CDAL and then left as much of the rest of the box alone (I don't have the KA43 stuff to hand so I may be misremembering the exact details here). In the VS4000-90, the NCA is (IIRC) an NDAL-to-CDAL bridge. Then the EDAL hangs off the CDAL to give access to some of the internal options that presumably were leveraged from earlier CVAX designs (KA42 etc.). But the graphics hang off the CDAL. As you note, these are *not* the standard SPX etc. but designs that presumably had already been modified from the original SPX to remove the EDAQL interface and use CDAL instead (to more closely match the VXT requirements ... I'm guessing, I cannot find the article I'm sure I've read that describes the development of the VXT2000). Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From jim at calico.litterbox.com Fri Jan 17 15:49:01 2003 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? In-Reply-To: <3E285C3F.6010309@428wilson.com> Message-ID: I had one of these SE30 video cards as well, complete with a jack in the back for a Radius monitor. Wound up pulling it out of the machine to install an ethernet board, and I can't find the video card anymore, so I think I've thrown it out. The SE30 is still in service in our basement, as a full member of our network. It's a little pokey and won't run quicktime 5 at all, despite trying (I suspect the two color video is the problem, really) but it goes, and iCab works on it. You just have to be patient. :) On Friday, January 17, 2003, at 12:40 PM, Simon Allaway wrote: > Zane H. Healy wrote: > >> There was at least one video card made for the SE/30, I've got one in >> mine, >> and I've got a SCSI-to-Ethernet adapter for network access. > > I remember the first Mac I used back in '89 was an SE/30 with a > grey-scale (8 bit) card made by RasterOps. It had a grey-scale monitor > to go with it too. That was when the Apple LaserWriter had more RAM > than the machine that was printing! Aaah, the smell of ozone. > > Simon > From tim.myers at sunplan.com Fri Jan 17 15:50:01 2003 From: tim.myers at sunplan.com (Tim Myers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: PerSci Model 277 Dual 8" Floppy Drives - Info Needed Message-ID: <001601c2be73$73e6d7a0$5b76033e@local.sunplan.com> Does anyone have any info on these drives? I have some in a CP/M system (Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1), and they seem completely dead. They have an electric load mechanism, but when I insert a disk, nothing happens. Popped the case and can't see anything obviously out of place. Tim. From jim at calico.litterbox.com Fri Jan 17 15:54:01 2003 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? In-Reply-To: <20030117174813.GC32129@kotol.kotelna.sk> Message-ID: <9D8A9992-2A66-11D7-A27B-000502512D39@calico.litterbox.com> I was surfing around for upgrades for my g3 the other day and stumbled across a company (I think it was Sonnet) that is still making a 68040 upgrade board that, with an adapter, can be plugged into an SE30. If I didn't need that socket for ethernet, I'd be Soooo tempted. It's surprising how much 68000 series mac stuff there still is. I would check out http://www.lowendmac.com for more info. Oh, and FYI, no matter what Apple says, if you can track down 8 4meg 32 pin simms (remember those?) your se30 will happily address 32 megs of RAM. Booting takes a while while it checks all that memory, of course. On Friday, January 17, 2003, at 10:48 AM, Adrien Farkas wrote: > Hello, > > I'm owner of Mac SE/30 (asked regarding broken CRT tube a while ago). > Can aynone supply me with a list of accessories that can be inserted > into the slot? www.apple.com didn't help me very much, and the only > card > I saw is 10base2/10baseT ethernet. are there any videocards for se/30? > or some other equip? > > Cheers, > -- > freddy > > ...for more info 'finger freddy@kotol.kotelna.sk' > From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 17 15:56:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? In-Reply-To: from "Simon Allaway" at Jan 17, 2003 01:40:47 PM Message-ID: <200301172159.h0HLx3o20198@shell1.aracnet.com> > Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > There was at least one video card made for the SE/30, I've got one in mine, > > and I've got a SCSI-to-Ethernet adapter for network access. > > I remember the first Mac I used back in '89 was an SE/30 with a > grey-scale (8 bit) card made by RasterOps. It had a grey-scale monitor > to go with it too. That was when the Apple LaserWriter had more RAM than > the machine that was printing! Aaah, the smell of ozone. > > Simon I'm pretty sure the video card I have is colour, however, I've only actually hooked it up once, and that was years ago. What can I say, I got the SE/30 for it's small footprint and fast[1] processor, I didn't care that it had a video card in it, I needed the ethernet more. Zane [1] Of course fast being relative to the app, and at the time my primary system was a PowerMac 8500/180. Still the SE/30 with MS Word 5.1 makes a great word processor! From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Jan 17 15:58:01 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: VXT X terminal question In-Reply-To: <0301172047.AA01790@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <000201c2be73$f95e0480$cb87fe3e@athlon> > Thanks for filling us in on the dirty secret. I thought DEC > learned their lesson with VS II/RC. (Suddenly everyone needed > a replacement BA23 > backplane...) I don't think the VIC slug was much of a secret. They did not shout it from the rooftops but the specs omit the VIC whereas for the other stuff it's mentioned reasonably prominently. The VAXstation II/RC ("Reduced Configuration" IIRC) was pretty silly really. I have heard that there were firms that could (or claimed they could) remove the glue and leave a functioning backplane! > DEC is still my favourite hardware vendor of all time, but > this artificial hobbling of hardware is a real black eye for > them. Think about hobbling the (perfectly standard and > generic) KA410 SCSI port to only one TK50Z drive, or the > "strategic decision" to make VS3100 M76 run only VMS and not Ultrix. The really stupid one was the VAX 8500. This was deliberately hobbled in the microcode (essentially NOPS were added) to slow it down compared to the VAX 8700 (the only other real difference - other than cost! - was that the VAX 8700 could be expanded to a VAX 8800). Once the word got out they realised their mistake and suddenly everyone who had a VAX 8500 (on h/w support contract) had a free upgrade to a newly announced VAX 8530 (i.e. the FS engineer came along with a diskette to load the new microcode and a new nameplate!). At least disabling the VIC only *added* to the options - they could now sell a cheaper variant but the faster variant (in this case the UV3100-90) existed at the same time. The KA410 decision was probably not made the way it sounds above. At that time no VAX supported SCSI and SCSI was seen to be a pretty unreliable standard (and at the time, I think that is a fair assessment - it was not the plug and play that it nearly is today). So advertising it as a generic SCSI port would probably have been felt to be a dangerous thing to do from a support perspective. As for Ultrix never being supported on the VS3100-76: I don't know how that happened. I don't know whether the Ultrix group were told not to do it or whether they chose to concentrate their resources elsewhere. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From allain at panix.com Fri Jan 17 16:02:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: Prelinger & Computer Chronicles Archives References: <001b01c2bcb7$e30221c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <00a601c2be74$7e692920$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> For those of you whipping yourselves to death about when copying is legal or not, just thought I'd add that the Kildall video is Free to copy, as per http://www.archive.org/about/faqs.php "The Prelinger movies are open and available to everyone without charges or fees. You are warmly encouraged to access, download, use, and reproduce these films in whole or part, in any medium or market throughout the world, for any purpose whatsoever except the following: You may not sell or sell access to the data files on this site, in whole or in part. You may give or transfer them to any other person or company, but the gift or transfer must be free of charge. You may not sell, represent, license, or charge for access to these films as stock footage.You may not convert these files into other online distribution formats, except for open-source MPEG-4 formats." So you Can make CD copies for the list & I'm repeating the request for a Broadband downloader. John A. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Allain To: ; classiccmp Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 12:02 PM Subject: Re: Prelinger & Computer Chronicles Archives > Computer Chronicles Episodes are available for viewing or > downloading: > http://www.archive.org/movies/computerchronicles.php > Gary Kildall Special : > http://www.archive.org/movies/movies-details-db.php? > collection=computerchronicles&collectionid=1814&from=BA Fantastic. I just viewed the low-res version; many priceless perspectives. Anybody with Broadband want to make a CD of the HiRes for me? It's 700+MB, that's 60+ hours download on modem. John A. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Fri Jan 17 16:05:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: About Electronics Questions Message-ID: <200301172207.OAA21669@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Your questions about caps in old amps are surely OT. The PIC stuff is at least close. Still for both of these, there are better place. It sounds like you've not even researched News Groups. 'rec.antiques.radio&phono' is surely a better place for your amplifier question and groups like 'comp.arch.embedded.piclist' would surely be a better place for your pic questions. Why, when there are plenty of other resourses that are better, would you think that OT subjects are OK to dump on this list that is suppose to be dedicated to old computers. This isn't the only resourse on the net. Dwight >From: liste@artware.qc.ca > >Another question would be : where should one go to discuss electronics? I >have 2 projects I'd like some feedback on : repairing an ancient guitar >tube amp (specifically, I think the caps in the power supply are >hosored, causing a loud humm... but where to buy high voltage caps of >non-standard capcitance?), and I'd really like to get into PIC programming. > I'd really like to have a resource where I can ask all the newbie >questions that crop up. (Yes, I've RTFMed, but far to often there's >little subtle things that aren't obvious, but that someone with experience >will know. > > >On 16-Jan-2003 Tony Duell wrote: >> Perhaps it should be user-programmable (or patchable in the case of >> an analogue machine). This would rule out embedded microcontorllers, >> but would allow computers based round microcontrollers (the Philips >> G7000 (Magnavox something-or-other) has an 8048 as the main CPU, but I >> don't think many would call it a microcontroller, for example). > >Odessey? > >-Philip > From jim at calico.litterbox.com Fri Jan 17 16:09:00 2003 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20030117181950.GA7114502@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: The bottom line here is that with intellectual property, the only moral choice is that if the author wishes to be paid for the USE of their creation, they should be. Whether you'd have bought it if you couldn't have gotten it for free or not is irrelevant, it's like sneaking into a movie theater and sitting in an empty seat. You acquired some benefit from the material, and since the author didn't chose to make it public domain, you are morally obligated to pay for it. As someone who is in the process of writing his first novel (revising, really, the original draft was a NaNoWriMo creation) I can assure you that I am not doing this for free. Granted, if I choose to make the novel publicly available online as well as publishing (I hope, I hope), it may increase my sales, but it was still MY choice. It is immoral for anyone else to make that choice for me by simply stealing the work, even if it benefits me in the end. Furthermore, I think that copyrights should be extended to permanence so long as the work in question is available for purchase by the public. eg: If Disney wants to keep SteamBoat Willie copyrighted for eternity, they have to sell you a copy at will. I have far greater problems with companies that take a copyright and sit on it and make it unavailable to the public than I do with those who want to protect their revenue stream. The flip side of this is that IMHO there need to be a lot more restrictive guidelines on how and who can be sued (in general, but specifically for copyright infringement). IMHO it's perfectly fair for Disney to sic lawyers on anyone using clips from SteamBoat Willie who didn't pay for it. But if I make a movie called SteamBoat Bob, starring Bob the Chicken, they shouldn't be able to sue and win, and they shouldn't be able to sue just to force me out of business from the expense of fighting them off. Anyway, that's my two rubles worth. Megan said it more directly anyway. -Jim On Friday, January 17, 2003, at 11:19 AM, Dan Wright wrote: > Megan said: >> >> Ah, but why are you taking a copy? Is it perhaps because it has >> value to you? That it entertains? If so, then someone had to >> go through the process of creation to produce it. Not unlike >> building a house. They deserve something to compensate them. > > Yes, they do...but please see below... > >> >>> that makes a copy of something *may* be depriving an author of >>> possibly >>> income, but if someone is too cheap or really can't afford to buy it >>> in >>> the first place, "lost income" is just BS. >> >> That seems to be the general argument of the recent and current >> generations... that just because they can't pay for something >> shouldn't preclude them having it... "they are entitled to it". >> >> WRONG! If it has value to you, then pay for it. > > The problem is that the "theft" argument assumes that EVERY copy = 1 > lost > sale. This argument is total bullshit. Most people who copy > music/movies/whatever wouldn't have bought it if they couldn't copy > it, so no > (or at best, very few -- FAR fewer then the number of copies that are > made) > actual SALES are lost. (If you don't believe me, there has been a lot > of > statistical research done that shows this; about the only > contradiction comes > from the RIAA's highly dubious closed-books "research". Sorry I don't > have > any sources at hand, but it's easy to find them on the WWW.) No lost > sales > means there's no equivalent to real-world theft, because no property > is gone > (the author/copyright owner still has their copy) and no money has > been lost > (because the copy wouldn't have been a sale, anyway). > > - Dan Wright > (dtwright@uiuc.edu) > (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) > > -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- > [- > ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy > dread, > For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' > Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan > From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 17 16:09:40 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? In-Reply-To: from "Jim Strickland" at Jan 17, 2003 02:52:28 PM Message-ID: <200301172212.h0HMCkO20906@shell1.aracnet.com> > I had one of these SE30 video cards as well, complete with a jack in > the back for a Radius monitor. Wound up pulling it out of the machine That brings up a good point, I think that video cards that drove 'page size' monitors (or the 'tilty' monitors) were a popular option for Mac's of this era. (pardon the highly 'technical' terms :^) Zane From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Fri Jan 17 16:10:18 2003 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: About Electronics Questions References: Message-ID: <07bf01c2be75$868c7c00$0101a8c0@athlon> You could poke thru the GB archives below http://www.mines.uidaho.edu/ftp/pub/Glowbugs/GBArchives/ And maybe even ask the odd question if you subscribe to the list. Primarily ham radio oriented but anything to do with tubes seems to be 'on topic' Don't even think about PICs while there though! For them- there are message boards and forums attached to a lot of the PIC and microcontroller sites around- try them. Dave B CH CH, NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 10:40 AM Subject: Re: About Electronics Questions > > Another question would be : where should one go to discuss electronics? I > have 2 projects I'd like some feedback on : repairing an ancient guitar > tube amp (specifically, I think the caps in the power supply are > hosored, causing a loud humm... but where to buy high voltage caps of > non-standard capcitance?), and I'd really like to get into PIC programming. > I'd really like to have a resource where I can ask all the newbie > questions that crop up. (Yes, I've RTFMed, but far to often there's > little subtle things that aren't obvious, but that someone with experience > will know. > > > On 16-Jan-2003 Tony Duell wrote: > > Perhaps it should be user-programmable (or patchable in the case of > > an analogue machine). This would rule out embedded microcontorllers, > > but would allow computers based round microcontrollers (the Philips > > G7000 (Magnavox something-or-other) has an 8048 as the main CPU, but I > > don't think many would call it a microcontroller, for example). > > Odessey? > > -Philip > From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 17 16:12:03 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? In-Reply-To: <9D8A9992-2A66-11D7-A27B-000502512D39@calico.litterbox.com> from "Jim Strickland" at Jan 17, 2003 02:57:04 PM Message-ID: <200301172215.h0HMFNb20995@shell1.aracnet.com> > check out http://www.lowendmac.com for more info. Oh, and FYI, no > matter what Apple says, if you can track down 8 4meg 32 pin simms > (remember those?) your se30 will happily address 32 megs of RAM. > Booting takes a while while it checks all that memory, of course. Mine came that way, however, I pulled out 4 of them and put them in a system my Mom was using at the time. I really should recover the SIMMs from that system and put them back in the SE/30. Of course that will probably wait till I have room once again for the SE/30 :^( Zane From cb at mythtech.net Fri Jan 17 16:25:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? Message-ID: >Oh, and FYI, no >matter what Apple says, if you can track down 8 4meg 32 pin simms >(remember those?) your se30 will happily address 32 megs of RAM. Apple never denied that the SE/30 would address 32 meg of RAM. Its part of the spec. What they denied was that it can address 128 megs of RAM (8 16meg 30 pin chips). That has been reported by many to work just fine. -chris From simona at 428wilson.com Fri Jan 17 16:40:00 2003 From: simona at 428wilson.com (Simon Allaway) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: About Electronics Questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E2886DC.5020204@428wilson.com> liste@artware.qc.ca wrote: > Another question would be : where should one go to discuss electronics? I > have 2 projects I'd like some feedback on : repairing an ancient guitar > tube amp (specifically, I think the caps in the power supply are > hosored, causing a loud humm... but where to buy high voltage caps of > non-standard capcitance?), I get all my valve amp parts from this place: http://vibroworld.com/parts/tech.html Simon From dtwright at uiuc.edu Fri Jan 17 16:40:43 2003 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <20030117181950.GA7114502@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <20030117224328.GA7239639@uiuc.edu> I agree that the morally correct thing is to pay for works that require payment, rather then copying them. However, I definitly have a problem with characterizing such copying as "theft", because it is NOT theft, for the reasons that I and several other people have stated. I'm not saying that makes illegal copying OK, just that it is not the same thing as actual theft, and therefore needs to be dealt with & characterized differently. For example, the recent TV ads from the RIAA characterizing downloading mp3s as identical to walking into a store and lifting a CD are total horseshit because THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU'RE DOING! Recognizing the difference between the two does not mean that I'm condoning illegal copying. Jim Strickland said: > > Furthermore, I think that copyrights should be extended to permanence > so long as the work in question is available for purchase by the > public. eg: If Disney wants to keep SteamBoat Willie copyrighted for > eternity, they have to sell you a copy at will. I have far greater > problems with companies that take a copyright and sit on it and make it > unavailable to the public than I do with those who want to protect > their revenue stream. Well, no, copyright shouldn't be extended for that purpose, IMO. The purpose of both patents and copyrights, according to the constitution of the united states, is to promote the public interest by allowing authors/inventors a period of LIMITED monopoly in order to obtain monetary benefit/compensation from the difficult process of creating something. After which, the created IP is supposed to move into the public domain, allowing other people to build new works based on the old ones, thereby promoting further creativity. Note that the constitution says nothing about promoting the interest of corporate revenue, but rather, the interest of the public. The basic problem with your argument is that it means no one can ever make a new work based on steamboat willie as long as disney keeps selling it, which stifles potential creativity, thereby still defeating the constitutionally stated purpose of copyright. However, I will grant that I would certainly prefer the situation you propose to the current one, where companies are free to let copyrighted works rot in their vaults while not letting anyone else touch them or see them, either. - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From simona at 428wilson.com Fri Jan 17 16:43:01 2003 From: simona at 428wilson.com (Simon Allaway) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? In-Reply-To: <200301172159.h0HLx3o20198@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200301172159.h0HLx3o20198@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3E2887A9.80202@428wilson.com> Zane H. Healy wrote: > I'm pretty sure the video card I have is colour, however, I've only actually > hooked it up once, and that was years ago. What can I say, I got the SE/30 > for it's small footprint and fast[1] processor, I didn't care that it had a > video card in it, I needed the ethernet more. Wow! Colour in an SE/30! That's spiffy :o) > [1] Of course fast being relative to the app, and at the time my primary > system was a PowerMac 8500/180. Still the SE/30 with MS Word 5.1 makes a > great word processor! Even MS Word 4.0 was enough for me. I think the 10% of functionality that everyone is rumoured to use in modern wp apps is all present in Word 4.0. I used to use Pagemaker and Aldus Freehand on my old 30. Those were the days. Simon From whdawson at localisps.net Fri Jan 17 16:56:00 2003 From: whdawson at localisps.net (whdawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: DEC VT320 compatible PLANAR ELT320 FLAT PANEL TERMINAL Message-ID: Came across this on eBay. No bids yet: PLANAR ELT320 FLAT PANEL TERMINAL w/ EXTRA'S THE ELT320 IS AN ALPHANUMERIC VIDEO TERMINAL WHICH IS FUNCTIONAL COMPATIBLE WITH THE DEC VT320 TERMINAL AND ALSO INCLUDES NUMEROUS ADDITIONAL ADVANCED FEATURES. THIS TERMINAL CAN OPERATE ON-LINE TO A HOST SYSTEM OR THE HOST CAN BE PUT ON HOLD SENDING YOUR INPUT INTO PAGE MEMORY OF THE TERMINAL. THE TERMINAL STORES DATA RECEIVED FROM THE HOST, UNTIL YOU PUT IT BACK ON-LINE. AS IS THE CASE WITH ANY OTHER EMULATOR, THE ELT320 HAS SOME MINOR VARIANCES. THIS PACKAGE INCLUDES: PLANAR ELT320 FLAT PANEL TERMINAL MODEL # ELT320-P1 PLANAR SERIAL CABLE INSTALLATION AND USER'S GUIDE $19.99 opening bid, $14.00 S/H http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11218&item=2301790285 Bill From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 17 17:06:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: RK07 repairable? In-Reply-To: <20030117005557.U57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> from "Jochen Kunz" at Jan 17, 3 00:55:57 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1074 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030117/2f66dd18/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 17 17:06:52 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: IBM 5322 In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jan 16, 3 07:36:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 822 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030117/a1de1454/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 17 17:07:31 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:38 2005 Subject: Maxtor drive goes under In-Reply-To: from "Brian Chase" at Jan 16, 3 05:06:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 898 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030117/2c7f24fa/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 17 17:08:10 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: About Electronics Questions In-Reply-To: <12848670163.20030116202835@subatomix.com> from "Jeffrey Sharp" at Jan 16, 3 08:28:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 458 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030117/dc614d75/attachment.ksh From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Jan 17 17:14:01 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: VXT X terminal question In-Reply-To: ; from jim@calico.litterbox.com on Fri, Jan 17, 2003 at 22:44:59 CET References: <0301172047.AA01790@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <20030118000910.Q57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.01.17 22:44 Jim Strickland wrote: > > VS3100 M76 run only VMS and not Ultrix. > Which one was the M76? The one with "VAXstation 3100 M76" printed on the front. ;-) I think Ultrix wasn't ported to the M76 as the DECstation 3100 came out at the same time (1989) and DEC decided that the MIPS machines would be the Unix platform. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Jan 17 17:14:41 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: VXT X terminal question In-Reply-To: <000001c2be6e$54f5a560$cb87fe3e@athlon>; from arcarlini@iee.org on Fri, Jan 17, 2003 at 22:20:59 CET References: <20030117204112.G57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <000001c2be6e$54f5a560$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: <20030117235607.O57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.01.17 22:20 Antonio Carlini wrote: > FWIW my recollection is that the UV3100-88, UV3100-98 > and VAX 4000-108A are the same hardware as the UV3100-85, > UV3100-96 and VAX 4000-106A but respun to fit in a > PC-style case (and, for at least some options, using > PCI connectors but *NOT* a PCI bus). And the MV3100m9{0,5,6} are identical to the VAX4000m10{0,5,6}. The difference is that the MV models can't use the QBus adapter (on the base board) and have no DSSI (on an opton board?). Sad that I have not the QBus cabling for my MV3100m95. A 83 MHz NVAX (32 VUPs?) desktop VAX wirh QBus would be nice. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jim at calico.litterbox.com Fri Jan 17 17:17:01 2003 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <406AFBC9-2A72-11D7-A27B-000502512D39@calico.litterbox.com> *boggle* 128mb of RAM on an se30? Wow... but... it'd still take forever to render a page in icab. You get a real appreciation for how many cycles a web page is sucking up when you're on an se30 with unaccelerated video. :) On Friday, January 17, 2003, at 03:28 PM, chris wrote: >> Oh, and FYI, no >> matter what Apple says, if you can track down 8 4meg 32 pin simms >> (remember those?) your se30 will happily address 32 megs of RAM. > > Apple never denied that the SE/30 would address 32 meg of RAM. Its part > of the spec. > > What they denied was that it can address 128 megs of RAM (8 16meg 30 > pin > chips). That has been reported by many to work just fine. > > -chris > > From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Jan 17 17:36:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: VXT X terminal question In-Reply-To: <20030117235607.O57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <000001c2be81$9bbe6500$cb87fe3e@athlon> > And the MV3100m9{0,5,6} are identical to the > VAX4000m10{0,5,6}. The difference is that the MV models can't > use the QBus adapter (on the base > board) and have no DSSI (on an opton board?). The mainboards are the same (i.e. a KA50 *is* a KA52 etc.) and there is a console test that switches the identity back and forth. So if you switch the identity you can use the Qbus interface and the DSSI. Obviously you have to have a Qbus extension cable and some way of connecting it - the easiest way is a VAX 4000-1xx cab :-) I don't remember whether DSSI needs an additional board which is part of the VAX 4000-1xx cab or whether it too just works. > Sad that I have not the QBus cabling for my MV3100m95. A 83 > MHz NVAX (32 > VUPs?) desktop VAX wirh QBus would be nice. It would indeed. The VAX 4000-1xx range is something that I only rarely got to play on. But there are plenty of other Qbus boxes around. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jan 17 17:56:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, chris wrote: > >Oh, and FYI, no > >matter what Apple says, if you can track down 8 4meg 32 pin simms > >(remember those?) your se30 will happily address 32 megs of RAM. > > Apple never denied that the SE/30 would address 32 meg of RAM. Its part > of the spec. > > What they denied was that it can address 128 megs of RAM (8 16meg 30 pin > chips). That has been reported by many to work just fine. I dunno about 128, but my SE/30 runs A/UX with 64MB (4 x 16MB), no probs. Doc From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Jan 17 18:05:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: About Electronics Questions References: <200301172207.OAA21669@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3E289A57.3000104@jetnet.ab.ca> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Your questions about caps in old amps are surely > OT. The PIC stuff is at least close. Still for both > of these, there are better place. No more off topic than other stuff. In fact I have joined the list so I could get information on the LATEST COMPUTER TECHNOLGIES. However I am 20 years behind in building my home-brew computer so this the right place. The biggest thing however for anybody doing repair is get all the doc's you can even before you start repairing something.A schematic is a very useful item and that would be more useful than buying a CAP or two from radio shack. Ben. PS Caps are the first thing to go in any equiment unless you let the magic smoke out first. From jingber at ix.netcom.com Fri Jan 17 18:15:01 2003 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: T&B Ansley IDC connectors Message-ID: <1042849044.4567.5.camel@supermicro> Does anyone know where I can aquire the T&B ansley "light blue" IDC ribbon cable connectors that were used by MITS? Googling reveals that Tyco purchased this line of connectors in 2001, but I can't find any mention of T&B Ansley on their web site. Thanks, Jeff From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 17 18:30:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? In-Reply-To: <406AFBC9-2A72-11D7-A27B-000502512D39@calico.litterbox.com> from "Jim Strickland" at Jan 17, 2003 04:20:22 PM Message-ID: <200301180033.h0I0Xok27842@shell1.aracnet.com> > *boggle* 128mb of RAM on an se30? Wow... but... it'd still take > forever to render a page in icab. You get a real appreciation for how > many cycles a web page is sucking up when you're on an se30 with > unaccelerated video. :) It's not just on a system like that. Earlier this week I got my first SGI system, a nice little O2. It's about the crappiest of the O2's, but it's still a *very* nice UNIX workstation. I thought that it was doing OK at surfing until yesterday when I wanted to check something on gamespot, it absolutly crawled to a halt trying to render the pages (well the browser did, the rest of the system was nice and responsive). I swear it took close to 10 minutes to get to the third page (the one that had the data I was curious about). I think I'll now run the browser on my Linux box and retarget it to the SGI's desktop (at least until I get an Octane). Zane From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jan 17 18:38:01 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: Jules Richardson "Re: Update: BBC Acorn" (Jan 17, 20:02) References: <20030117200212.28990.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10301180041.ZM23989@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 17, 20:02, Jules Richardson wrote: > just checked mine again and it's 25-ANC13-1000049 > > have lost the original post from the person who had the last unit to see where > that fits into the scheme of things. :-( Mine is 25-ANC13-1000034, and Rob O'Donnell said his is 25-ANC13-1000038. Do either of you think you have a Disc 1 for it? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From avickers at solutionengineers.com Fri Jan 17 18:46:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: Looking for : Sharp PC-1405 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030118003207.01a94d50@slave> At 21:27 17/01/2003, you wrote: >Or equiv (Tandy had them as PC-2 or something, iirc). > >The goal of my classic collection is to get one of every computer I've >programmed over the years. One of the first computers I programmed was a >PC-1405 (actually, I can't remember the exact model). Sharp did a whole stack of these pocket machines. I think the PC-1275 was the most common (small black thing) - in fact, you can still get them today brand new... (I forget where exactly, it was part of a yacht navigation system IIRC). >I found one of these in a pawn shop. By brother "stole" it. I found >another. This was my one classic computer that was helluva useful. So >useful I took it with my places. And, well, I've just lost it. I've >checked eBay and there are a few Sharp Pocket Computers, but W@W L@@K @ >T3H PR1C3Z! Buy it now for "only" 300 USD! >http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3000156764&category=15030 > >So, does anyone here have one they don't need and/or would be willing to >let go for a reasonable price? I think I've got three PC-1360s, maybe four - just the machines in their slip cases. I also have a whole stack of 8k & a few 32k RAM cards to go in them. Unfortunately, I don't have any instruction manuals or boxes. One of them (+ some spare ram cards) is yours for the cost of shipping or a swap of something similar in size/weight. I've also got 3 or 4 PC1275's, but most of them don't work (they were badly abused in a past life). A company I used to work for used literally thousands of various models of these machines, and I (for my sins) had to look after them all - this mostly involved swapping out broken ones & re-loading the software on them. Somewhere, I have a copy of a piece of software called TransfilePC which allowed one to develop/store PC-xxxx software on your PC, then download it to the Sharp via the parallel port. I have the connector cable, but I seem to have lost the disc with the software on it :( -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From Charles at socketcom.com Fri Jan 17 19:19:39 2003 From: Charles at socketcom.com (Charles Ader) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: T&B Ansley IDC connectors Message-ID: <0751EFBE597394499B68C730740E08280984CC@socket011.socketcomm.com> Unless you can find some new old stock you may be out of luck. CW Industries makes the IDCs in the same style but are darker blue than T&B Ansley. See: http://www.cwind.com/ DigiKey lists them in catalog B022 on page 18. I have one, unused 25-pin D female connector with strain relief that you are welcome to. -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey H. Ingber [mailto:jingber@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 4:17 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: T&B Ansley IDC connectors Does anyone know where I can aquire the T&B ansley "light blue" IDC ribbon cable connectors that were used by MITS? Googling reveals that Tyco purchased this line of connectors in 2001, but I can't find any mention of T&B Ansley on their web site. Thanks, Jeff From jim at calico.litterbox.com Fri Jan 17 19:34:00 2003 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: VXT X terminal question In-Reply-To: <20030118000910.Q57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <623C6E90-2A85-11D7-A27B-000502512D39@calico.litterbox.com> Ahh, that would make sense. On Friday, January 17, 2003, at 04:09 PM, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On 2003.01.17 22:44 Jim Strickland wrote: > >>> VS3100 M76 run only VMS and not Ultrix. >> Which one was the M76? > The one with "VAXstation 3100 M76" printed on the front. ;-) > > I think Ultrix wasn't ported to the M76 as the DECstation 3100 came out > at the same time (1989) and DEC decided that the MIPS machines would be > the Unix platform. > -- > > > > tsch??, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ > From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Fri Jan 17 19:38:27 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: T&B Ansley IDC connectors In-Reply-To: <0751EFBE597394499B68C730740E08280984CC@socket011.socketcomm.com> References: <0751EFBE597394499B68C730740E08280984CC@socket011.socketcomm.com> Message-ID: <200301171740490756.09C28B50@192.168.42.129> Hi, guys, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 17-Jan-03 at 17:27 Charles Ader wrote: >Unless you can find some new old stock you may be >out of luck. Not necessarily. If it's just IDC-type DB25's you need, they're common as grass from lots of manufacturers, Tyco among them. I've got a whole flat of them around here somewhere. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Fri Jan 17 19:46:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: Osborne OCC1 References: <000001c2be09$bd177750$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: <3E28B312.ED234DF4@mail.verizon.net> Antonio Carlini wrote: > > Would it be possible to get those diagrams and any other tech > > docs for an OCC1? It would be much appreciated. > > > Antonio, > > You can find an Osborne Technical Manual here: > > http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/osborne/ > Thanks for the link. I really appreciate it as I have been focusing on this system over the past couple of weeks. Additionally I have been working with a Zenith 286 laptop which I managed to also fix. On a roll! Eric > > Antonio > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From sml49 at attbi.com Fri Jan 17 19:53:01 2003 From: sml49 at attbi.com (Seth Lewin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #391 - 45 msgs Message-ID: <200301180152.h0I1qNh73305@huey.classiccmp.org> > Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:48:13 +0100 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? > From: Adrien Farkas > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Hello, > > I'm owner of Mac SE/30 (asked regarding broken CRT tube a while ago). > Can aynone supply me with a list of accessories that can be inserted > into the slot? www.apple.com didn't help me very much, and the only card > I saw is 10base2/10baseT ethernet. are there any videocards for se/30? > or some other equip? > There definitely are video cards of several sorts that will work in that slot - some dedicated to use with specific monitors (ie: Radius); there's one which provides gray-scale functionality on the SE30's internal monitor. Check out <> for info on all old Macs - in detail. I don't recall anything other than accelerators, Enet cards and video cards that were made for that slot but I could well be wrong. Seth Lewin From jimkeo at multi-platforms.com Fri Jan 17 19:58:31 2003 From: jimkeo at multi-platforms.com (Jim Keohane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: Stock Ticker software early 80's and before References: Message-ID: <000c01c2be95$754a3fc0$0200000a@ibm0187702152> Sellam Ismail, I think the lawyer I'm doing research for would be interested in it. I know there were products with names like Pocket Quote and Quotrek. If you can tell me what device it is, what documentation (user guide, invoice, etc.) it came with and, most importantly, can it be dated? Is there a date on the paperwork? A serial number? Anything? I believe the older the better. If it's early 80's or so, great. If later might still be worthwhile. Also, how do you do business? PayPal? Credit card? What would it cost including shipment to either NY or chicago? Talk to ya later. - Jim Jim Keohane, Multi-Platforms, Inc. "It's not whether you win or lose. It's whether you win!" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 23:21 Subject: Re: Stock Ticker software early 80's and before > On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, Jim Keohane wrote: > > > There were software products, often with required peripherals > > (satellite, FM broadcast, leased line, etc.), that allowed an Apple ][ > > or TRS-80 or IBM PC, etc. to access stock or commodity ticker feeds in a > > real-time manner and monitor trades for price, volume and other limits. > > If activity was outside specified range the user would receive an alert > > like a screen/printer message or an audible beep or both. > > > > Some products were Radio Data Retriever, Intra-Day Analyst, PC > > Quote, etc. > > Indeed, I just picked up such a unit (radio receiver) the other day. It's > a cool little pocket calculator-sized device with a telescoping antenna. > When the service was active, you would punch in the stock symbol and it > would retrieve the price for you. You could also program in your > portfolio and it would presumably keep track of everything for you. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri Jan 17 20:10:00 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: VXT X terminal question Message-ID: <0301180213.AA02182@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Jim Strickland wrote: > Which one was the M76? Umm, the one that says "VAXstation 3100 M76" on the front. I'm not sure how else to specify it. It scribbles KA43-A on the console on power-up. MS From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Fri Jan 17 20:25:01 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: SWTPC was(Re: PET 2001 oddity) References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030117180504.00b86e20@slave> Message-ID: <3E28BC65.E305DF25@mail.verizon.net> Adrian, I used to sell the old PET 2001 from CBM complete with 'chiclet' keyboard. Adrian Vickers wrote: > I dug the 2001 out of the cupboard the other day - it's reorganise time, > try to get *even more* stuff into exactly the same amount of space as less > (but still lots of) stuff occupied. It never works, but it does give me an > excellent excuse to have a play around with some of them. > > Unfortunately, the PET seems to have developed an odd fault: It won't take > a BASIC program, and some keywords seem to be knackered... > > It reports 7167 bytes free, as per spec. But if I type: > > 10 REM blah > > or > > 10 ?"HELLO" > > it hangs. If I load a program from tape, it does one of two things: > > a) Loads but won't run, typing LIST produces something like this: > 10 > 2 > READY. > > b) It loads & hangs immediately after the READY. prompt comes up. > > I tried to put together a FOR loop (the idea being I could use it to > display chunks of memory at a time, e.g. > > FORI=0TO10:?I;:NEXT > > Instead, the machine goes into an infinte loop displaying zero on a new > line each time (it's ignored the I variable, and the semicolon after the > PRINT command. > > If I replace NEXT with NEXTI, it fails reporting NEXT without FOR. > > So.... I figure the BASIC ROM has become slightly corrupted, OR I've got a > flakey memory chip which reads OK but doesn't write properly. The question > is, how to find out? > I would try the RAM first. Swap all the 8K RAM chips about. That used to do wonders. It should be your first line of defense. > > 1) Can the BASIC ROM be swapped with one from, say, a 3032 or 4016? In > fact, which one IS the BASIC ROM? > 2) If it's a dodgy memory chip, what's the best way of isolating it? I have > an oscilloscope, but nada skill in this sort of thing. > Swap the memory chips and keep track of what goes where. If a certain chip is flakey it will show up. > 3) If, as my money is on, it's the BASIC ROM, can it be replaced with an > EPROM - if so, there's a whole gamut of additional questions to follow.... > Proprietary ROMs have been upgraded using modern chips. See Mike Holley's Southwest Technical Products site offering a ROM monitor upgrade: http://home.attbi.com/~swtpc6800/ROM_Emulator/ROM_Index.htm Eric > > Thanks in advance! > -- > Cheers, Ade. > Be where it's at, B-Racing! > http://b-racing.com From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Fri Jan 17 21:06:00 2003 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: (OT) Unauthorized copying ... was Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1042859371.9939.71.camel@azure.subsolar> On Fri, 2003-01-17 at 01:53, Sellam Ismail wrote: > For example, I can never create a character called Dickey Mouse because > Disney would have a shit fit and sue my ass off. A company can't call > it's operating system "Lindows" without getting its ass sued off. This is > a real problem. The intent is not to rip-off other people's work, but to > use it as a basis for new creative invention. This is how we advance as a > civilization. If you don't believe me, sit back and let the corproations > maintain ownership of everything, and then let's see how far we progress > in a generation. I'm having fun watching companies as they use the DMCA for stopping competing products like universal garage door openers (Chamberlain vs skylink) and competing toner cartridges (Lexmark vs. Static Control Components). This is a totally wacked system with a runaway program. > Ok, the day you read in the paper that I blew up Disney's headquarters, > I'll also be sending you a check for One Million Dollars!! That would be an act of commercial terrorism ... even talking about it could land your ass in jail! :^) Paul From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Fri Jan 17 21:13:00 2003 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3E284E3C.8286798D@rain.org> References: <03c301c2bdea$ddbb1ee0$0100a8c0@primate> <200301170824.DAA109992946@shell.TheWorld.com> <20030117181950.GA7114502@uiuc.edu> <3E284E3C.8286798D@rain.org> Message-ID: <1042859804.9939.81.camel@azure.subsolar> On Fri, 2003-01-17 at 12:41, Marvin Johnston wrote: > Dan Wright wrote: > > The problem is that the "theft" argument assumes that EVERY copy = 1 lost > > sale. This argument is total bullshit. Most people who copy > > music/movies/whatever wouldn't have bought it if they couldn't copy it, so no > > (or at best, very few -- FAR fewer then the number of copies that are made) > > actual SALES are lost. (If you don't believe me, there has been a lot of > > statistical research done that shows this; about the only contradiction comes > > from the RIAA's highly dubious closed-books "research". Sorry I don't have > > any sources at hand, but it's easy to find them on the WWW.) No lost sales > > means there's no equivalent to real-world theft, because no property is gone > > (the author/copyright owner still has their copy) and no money has been lost > > (because the copy wouldn't have been a sale, anyway). > > The theft argument assumes *ONLY* that someone is taking something that > doesn't belong to them without paying for it. Rationalizing theft by > saying that copy wouldn't have been bought anyway has no bearing on the > fact that it is *theft*. The "no lost sales" argument (probably on both > sides of the issue) is just a tangent. The same arguments have been made > for stealing software. Your using improper terminology ... it's not theft or piracy, it's copyright infringement ... you have been listening to the copyright cartel. I could never see what copying a disk had to do with boarding a ship, raping & killing the passengers & crew and then sinking the ship. ;^) In case your wondering I'm not some '1337 warez dude, what commercial software I have is fully licensed thank you. Regards, Paul From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Fri Jan 17 21:18:00 2003 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: (OT) Unauthorized copyying ... was: Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <200301171951.OAA01568@conman.org> References: <200301171951.OAA01568@conman.org> Message-ID: <1042860073.9939.87.camel@azure.subsolar> On Fri, 2003-01-17 at 13:51, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > I think one reason why many people are upset at Disney over copyright is > they they themselves have reaped much from the public domain---Snow White, > Sleeping Beauty, The Little Mermaid, Hunchback of Notre Dame, Mulan but > *none* of their works have in turned, been returned to the public domain to > enrich the culture. Add to the list their latest "Treasure Island" errr make that "Treasure Planet". > If this keeps up, then we might find ourselves in a situation described in > "Melancholy Elephants" by Spider Robinson: > > http://www.baen.com/chapters/W200011/0671319744___1.htm I like that story, and I think we are there already. Regards, Paul From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 17 21:36:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: T&B Ansley IDC connectors In-Reply-To: <1042849044.4567.5.camel@supermicro> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030117220304.5627e994@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Jeff, I might be able to find some. Can you give me an exact description and describe any markings? What kind and how many are you looking for? Joe At 07:17 PM 1/17/03 -0500, you wrote: >Does anyone know where I can aquire the T&B ansley "light blue" IDC >ribbon cable connectors that were used by MITS? > >Googling reveals that Tyco purchased this line of connectors in 2001, >but I can't find any mention of T&B Ansley on their web site. > >Thanks, >Jeff > > > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 17 21:38:18 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: HP 5423A analyzer In-Reply-To: <078b01c2be70$96e3a0b0$0101a8c0@athlon> References: <00bc01c2bdab$3efcb000$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030117224440.407f4e1e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Dave, Can you tell us more? These things show up frequently around here and no one knows anything about them or how to use them. I think the local military contractors use them in testing mechanical assemblies for resonant frequencies but that's just a guess. Joe At 10:29 AM 1/18/03 +1300, you wrote: >Jay- you're on track. >Simplistically- it's a low frequency spectrum analyser (FFT type)- coverage >zero to 25 kHz and dynamic range of 80 dB(or thereabouts) > But it's really a lot more than that as it's a two channel instrument and >can do all sorts of other stuff as well. >If you really don't want it I imagine you won't have too much of a problem >selling it. Sort of thing I would have given my eye teeth for a while back. > Now-- all the eye teeth have fallen out!!! >Dave Brown > CHCH, NZ > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jay West" >To: >Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 11:04 AM >Subject: HP 5423A analyzer > > >> I just receive an HP 5423A Structural Dynamics Analyzer. I have no >interest >> in it, but being curious, what the heck is it used for?? From googling I >get >> the impression it does fourier modal testing? >> >> Jay "Idly curious" West >> >> --- >> [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] >> >> > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 17 21:38:58 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: Ampro cards Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030117215952.567f6a74@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I recently picked up two Ampro computer cards. I think they're PC/104 cards but I'm not positive. Your A60707 is the CoreModule XT Plus (CPU card). The other board is the MiniModule FSS, which is Floppy/SCSI/Serial controller. Does anyone have manuals for them? Ampro has a website but there's nothing on there about these cards and Ampro tech support hasn't been any help beyond id'ing the cards. Joe From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jan 17 21:40:01 2003 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? In-Reply-To: <406AFBC9-2A72-11D7-A27B-000502512D39@calico.litterbox.com> from Jim Strickland at "Jan 17, 3 04:20:22 pm" Message-ID: <200301180352.TAA09284@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > *boggle* 128mb of RAM on an se30? Wow... I have 128MB in my NetBSD IIci. It takes forever to do the memory test, but it never, ever, ever swaps ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Stand by to launch beef by-product into oscillating ventilation unit ... --- From alhartman at yahoo.com Fri Jan 17 21:40:39 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #391 - 45 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030117220940.70841.14056.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030118034120.66072.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> The problem with this is that you are totally ignoring the owners rights in this. You are treating a program like physical property when it isn't. It is Intellectual Property. If you do not purchase a license from the author to use his work, you are not entitled to own it. Whether you have made a copy so that nobody else is deprived of their copy is immaterial. Something is lost by him/her. His/her rights to control the distribution of his/her work. If you don't want to buy it, then you shouldn't have it. If you say "F" you, I'm going to take one anyway... What's the point in having copyright/ownership laws? If the laws aren't used, respected and enforced.. eventually people will decide not to create cool stuff because most people will "copy" it (and in your concept, since they won't buy it anyway... No harm is being done...), and the author will recieve little to no compensation for his work. So, those people will decide to do something where they will get paid. If you consistently rob a store, eventually it will go out of business, and you won't have anything to rob anymore, not to mention... Actually buy something you need.... So there is HUGE harm in stealing software by copying it. Most pirates won't admit to it, because then they'd have to admit they are bad people, stealing from someone/everyone... This is all elementary business/copyright law. Not an opinion. It's the basis of all copyright law. Regards, Al __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Fri Jan 17 21:41:19 2003 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: (OT) Unauthorize copying ... was: Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1042861430.9939.108.camel@azure.subsolar> On Fri, 2003-01-17 at 16:12, Jim Strickland wrote: > Furthermore, I think that copyrights should be extended to permanence > so long as the work in question is available for purchase by the > public. eg: If Disney wants to keep SteamBoat Willie copyrighted for > eternity, they have to sell you a copy at will. I have far greater > problems with companies that take a copyright and sit on it and make it > unavailable to the public than I do with those who want to protect > their revenue stream. Should the umpteenth ancestor of Bach, Shakespeare, Mozart, et. all be able to hold their work hostage forever? These works are part of our culture and our culture is better for them being freely usable. I think we should go back to the way things were before the 1973 copyright extension. This was a 28 years with an additional 28 years if the copyright holder filed for an extension and registered a copy with the library of congress. As it stands now it can be impossible to find who owns copyright on say an old software package, and so even if you want to do the right thing and get permission to distribute it it's almost certainly not possible since the company has probably gone out of business and there are no records of who owns the rights. The 1998 Sonny Bono Copyright Extension Act was supposed to normalize US copyrights with the European Union making things more consistent (this was also the reasoning for the 1973 CEA). Of course it did not do that since when the act was pasted it retroactively whereas in most of Europe the old term was left in effect. The net result of the 1998 SBCEA was that some things are in the public domain in Europe, but still under copyright protection here. This has muddied the waters considerably with the possibility of stuff being imported into the USA, this is forcing the RIAA & MPAA to pressure congress to limit imports of European content product and them pressuring Europe to change their copyrights to "harmonize" them with the US. Regards, Paul P.S. My congressmen, wife and co-workers are tired of me ranting about this subject too! :^D From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 17 22:09:01 2003 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: IBM 5322 Message-ID: My bad, forgot to say that you should choose the "inactive hardware product descriptions" box and then type 5322 in the "product number" box... The general search works too, for example type in System/3.. I was amused by the "System/3 Law Enforcement System".. must have been for a pretty small cop shop! Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From spc at conman.org Fri Jan 17 22:10:02 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: (OT) Unauthorized copying ... was Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1042859371.9939.71.camel@azure.subsolar> from "Paul Berger" at Jan 17, 2003 09:09:31 PM Message-ID: <200301180413.XAA03085@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Paul Berger once stated: > > I'm having fun watching companies as they use the DMCA for stopping > competing products like universal garage door openers (Chamberlain vs > skylink) and competing toner cartridges (Lexmark vs. Static Control > Components). This is a totally wacked system with a runaway program. But a public company is more or less forced to do such stupid things to fulfil it's fudiciary responsibility to the shareholders or they're then liable to be sued by said shareholders for not increasing the value of the company. > > Ok, the day you read in the paper that I blew up Disney's headquarters, > > I'll also be sending you a check for One Million Dollars!! > > That would be an act of commercial terrorism ... even talking about it > could land your ass in jail! :^) Gee, one could ask what happened to the First Amendment ... -spc (But I suppose even that could get you into jail nowadays ... ) From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri Jan 17 22:12:00 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: Musings on BabyVAX video Message-ID: <0301180415.AA02415@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Antonio Carlini wrote: > I think the origins of the GPX go back to the QDSS Q-bus > board set as used in the VAXstation II (the "Dragon" chipset). I know. I meant that the GPX used in VS3100s originated in VS2K. > My recollection is that the same GPX board was indeed used on > the KA410 and KA42s. That was the VS40X-MA. I thought so too. But what about SPX? Can it go into a pre-M76 VS3100? And what about VS2K SPX? (It would of course be very silly in practice, but I'm talking in principle.) > I *think* that in the KA42 systems, they converted from CDAL > to EDAL (or whatever) as necessary. "As necessary"? I thought that except for memory KA42 is 100% EDAL. At least to system software KA42 is basically a faster KA410. (Well, there are some tweaks, like the ugly hack to make LANCE address 32 MB instead of 16. On KA410 they simply got lucky that their system memory size just happened to be what LANCE can address. Then I recall that the NetBSD folks had discovered that for SCSI the DMA byte count had to be set off by one between the two or something like that. I don't remember the details, but the question can probably be settled by comparing the KA42 SCSI driver in Ultrix sources against the KA410 st driver and the KA410 TM.) So I thought that KA42 had one big CDAL-to-EDAL bridge upfront and the rest of the system except memory was EDAL. But I could be wrong, maybe different subsystems have their own independent connections to CDAL. But if KA42 indeed has one big CDAL-to-EDAL bridge upfront, the million dollar question becomes: why did the VS4000 M90 dev team toil to design their own CDAL-to-EDAL bridge (CEAC) if there already was one? The only plausible explanation I could come up with is that perhaps on KA42 the CDAL-to-EDAL bridge was inseparably integrated with the memory controller. BTW, I have never found any references to a technical manual for VS3100 (any model) or for the corresponding early MV3100 models. It looks like one never existed. Do you have any more info? > The KA43 was a Rigel chip > shoe-horned into a CVAX system, so they did something to > convert the Rigel bus (RDAL?) to CDAL and then left as much > of the rest of the box alone (I don't have the KA43 stuff > to hand so I may be misremembering the exact details here). Does KA43 have memory on CDAL or on RDAL? I once had one in my hands and when I looked on the board to see what chips it had, I found the P-chip and the F- chip, but not the G-chip. The G-chip (used on KA670) is a Rigel memory controller and an RDAL-to-CDAL bridge combined. (The VAX 4500 team got the NCA idea from it.) I then thought that having no real need for CDAL KA43 went directly from RDAL to EDAL, perhaps combining the RDAL-to-EDAL bridge with an RDAL memory controller. But I guess they could have also made a chip like the G but without the memory controller and then plopped the KA42 memory and I/O on CDAL. That could explain why KA670 pulls 8.0 VUPs and KA43 only 7.6. But you are right in that the gap between KA42 and KA43 is much smaller than between KA410 and KA42. > In the VS4000-90, the NCA is (IIRC) an NDAL-to-CDAL bridge. > Then the EDAL hangs off the CDAL to give access to some of the > internal options that presumably were leveraged from earlier > CVAX designs (KA42 etc.). But the graphics hang off the CDAL. > As you note, these are *not* the standard SPX etc. but designs > that presumably had already been modified from the original > SPX Yup. > to remove the EDAQL interface and use CDAL instead Yeah, maybe that was the change. (Was that a typo or was EDAQL a chip converting EDAL to SPX's internal bus?) > I'm guessing, I > cannot find the article I'm sure I've read that describes > the development of the VXT2000). http://www.research.compaq.com/wrl/DECarchives/DTJ/DTJ402/DTJ402SC.TXT But it talks about the X aspects of it and says nothing about VXT2000 hardware. MS From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 17 22:13:00 2003 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: Mac TV Message-ID: To be honest, if I found a Lisa 1 for 10 bucks I wouldn't accept $1,000 for it.. I'd sell if for maybe a couple hundred, or preferably trade it for car parts/minicomputers/etc. I really wouldn't feel right about getting $1,000 from another collector for something I got for so little... Now a reseller on the other hand... Will J _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From vaxzilla at jarai.org Fri Jan 17 22:16:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? In-Reply-To: <200301180033.h0I0Xok27842@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > It's not just on a system like that. Earlier this week I got my first SGI > system, a nice little O2. It's about the crappiest of the O2's, but it's > still a *very* nice UNIX workstation. I thought that it was doing OK at > surfing until yesterday when I wanted to check something on gamespot, it > absolutly crawled to a halt trying to render the pages (well the browser > did, the rest of the system was nice and responsive). I swear it took close > to 10 minutes to get to the third page (the one that had the data I was > curious about). > > I think I'll now run the browser on my Linux box and retarget it to the > SGI's desktop (at least until I get an Octane). I'll wait to get an Onyx. Actually, the Origin 2000s are quite lovely, too. They're still really off topic for this list. -brian. From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri Jan 17 22:29:00 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: Hobbled NVAX (was: VXT X terminal question) Message-ID: <0301180431.AA02468@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Antonio Carlini wrote: > The VIC can > be disabled by "patching" the NVAX in some dynamic way (presumably > non-reversibly or at least only reversible in an obscure way). I assume the NVAX microcode was patched via its PCS facility by the boot firmware, not by making a different NVAX die with different microcode I hope, right? If so the abomination is to be reversed by reflashing the boot ROM with non-hobbled firmware (stolen from a friend with a non-hobbled machine). They had flash ROMs like all other NVAXen, right? MS From jimkeo at multi-platforms.com Fri Jan 17 22:33:37 2003 From: jimkeo at multi-platforms.com (Jim Keohane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: Stock Ticker software early 80's and before References: <000c01c2be95$754a3fc0$0200000a@ibm0187702152> Message-ID: <009e01c2beab$37738d80$0200000a@ibm0187702152> My apologoies. I meant to send email to Sellam directly and not pester the entire list. - Jim Jim Keohane, Multi-Platforms, Inc. "It's not whether you win or lose. It's whether you win!" From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Fri Jan 17 22:42:01 2003 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: (OT) Unauthorized copying ... was Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <200301180413.XAA03085@conman.org> References: <200301180413.XAA03085@conman.org> Message-ID: <1042865159.10142.16.camel@azure.subsolar> On Fri, 2003-01-17 at 22:13, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > It was thus said that the Great Paul Berger once stated: > > > > I'm having fun watching companies as they use the DMCA for stopping > > competing products like universal garage door openers (Chamberlain vs > > skylink) and competing toner cartridges (Lexmark vs. Static Control > > Components). This is a totally wacked system with a runaway program. > > But a public company is more or less forced to do such stupid things to > fulfil it's fudiciary responsibility to the shareholders or they're then > liable to be sued by said shareholders for not increasing the value of the > company. Well I disagree, polluting the environment in a third world country might help protect the company's bottom line too, but I don't think that should be considered acceptable even by the shareholders. At least the EU seem to be not as screwed up, I understand they have regulations that makes it illegal for companies to put chips in printers to lock out third party supplies. > > > Ok, the day you read in the paper that I blew up Disney's headquarters, > > > I'll also be sending you a check for One Million Dollars!! > > > > That would be an act of commercial terrorism ... even talking about it > > could land your ass in jail! :^) > > Gee, one could ask what happened to the First Amendment ... Well that seems to have been appealed 9/11 with only one dissenting vote ... joking (mostly) :^/ Regards, Paul From donm at cts.com Fri Jan 17 22:49:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: HD quality (was: Maxtor drive goes under) In-Reply-To: <01C2BDC9.CCA77D40@mse-d03> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, M H Stein wrote: > -----------Original message--------------- > Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:06:29 -0800 (PDT) > From: Brian Chase > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Maxtor drive goes under > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, Philip Pemberton wrote: > > Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > > > The drive we were having problems > > > with were 2 and 4 gig drives. These had a servo information > > > corruption problem ( that by design would always fail over time ). > > > > Guess that rules out Kalok then. They bit the big one in 1994, way before > > 2GB and 4GB drives started appearing... > > I'm going to guess Micropolis. Those drives were absolutely crap. > > -brian. > --------------------------------------------- > And then there was JTS... That is the sucker that I was racking my brain for when this dialogue began. The "JT" stood for Jugi Tandon of floppy, early hard disk, and PC fame. Ugh! - don > Other than Kalok and JTS, the only drives I consistently had problems > with were the old ST-200 series Seagates. Mind you, they ran 24/7 for several > years, but ultimately all (4 or 5) developed the stickies. Always embarrassing, > because the systems were only shut down by me doing some kind of > maintenance or mods, the old "but it worked fine until you touched it" > syndrome. Fortunately, all they needed was a little prying & twisting with a > small screwdriver on the spindle to free them up, and remarkably, they > worked fine again with no problems or errors (to my great relief, and until > the next time I shut them down). No problems with the old miniscribes > though, still have a box full, all working, and no unusual failure rates with > Micropolis either; it really is a matter of personal experience, not very > meaningful statistically. > > And Philip, I'm going to write you directly about that paper tape stuff as > soon as I sort it out; promise! > > mike > > From jingber at ix.netcom.com Fri Jan 17 22:54:00 2003 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: T&B Ansley IDC connectors In-Reply-To: <0751EFBE597394499B68C730740E08280984CC@socket011.socketcomm.com> References: <0751EFBE597394499B68C730740E08280984CC@socket011.socketcomm.com> Message-ID: <1042865799.2204.24.camel@supermicro> On Fri, 2003-01-17 at 20:27, Charles Ader wrote: > Unless you can find some new old stock you may be > out of luck. > > CW Industries makes the IDCs in the same > style but are darker blue than T&B Ansley. I think I'm going to go ahead and get some of these. My idea was to try to keep with the color scheme of the original connectors (which match the case). Most of the original connectors have become cracked. It's not terribly important but I would be nice to match it exactly. Thanks a bunch for the link! Jeff > > See: http://www.cwind.com/ > > DigiKey lists them in catalog B022 on page 18. > > I have one, unused 25-pin D female connector with > strain relief that you are welcome to. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeffrey H. Ingber [mailto:jingber@ix.netcom.com] > Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 4:17 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: T&B Ansley IDC connectors > > > Does anyone know where I can aquire the T&B ansley "light blue" IDC > ribbon cable connectors that were used by MITS? > > Googling reveals that Tyco purchased this line of connectors in 2001, > but I can't find any mention of T&B Ansley on their web site. > > Thanks, > Jeff From donm at cts.com Fri Jan 17 22:54:41 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: About Electronics Questions In-Reply-To: <200301170259.VAA16288@parse.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, Robert Krten wrote: > James Rice sez... > > > > Actually I've recently considered unsubscribing. I really don't care > > for DEC's, big iron or mini's, no disrespect to those who do collect > > them, but I no longer have the time to wade through all of the traffic. > > I would really like to split the list into the "big iron" side and > > "micro/workstation" side. I'm on some lists run out of the Low End Mac > > site and really appreciate how Dan has divided his list by machine class > > and topic. > > I've just started actively reading the list again after a few months out, > and have no problems filtering -- I guess my main comment would be, > "please use a filterable subject" -- at least filterable by humans. > For example, if it doesn't have "pdp", or "dec" in the title, I just > file it. Dead simple. Perhaps we could agree that the first word or > two in the subject line would be the filter keyword. for example: > > Electronics: how do I unsolder a dead 2N2222? > PDP: how has PDP-12's? > PC: I need to fix my C64 disk drive... > General: introduction Yeah, but you have to allow for "Re:" and "Re: Re:" also. - don > etc... > > ??? > > Cheers, > -RK > > > > > James > > > > J.C.Wren wrote: > > > Yea, that's a for-sure assessment. If this is the case, then perhaps > > > what's considered "Off Topic" needs to be severely revisited. I'm all for > > > things CC related, but where do you draw the line? And I kind of figured > > > that the electronics classes might draw it's own brand of off-topicisms. > > > One can see a siderail into microcontrollers (they are computing devices, > > > and they are over 10 years old). Does everyone else want to read about > > > them? Or just "real" classic computers? > > > > > > My thinking it was more out of consideration for others than segration > > > because y'all who don't subscribe are no longer good enough. > > > > > > --John > > > > > > > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- > > >>From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > > >>[mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > >>Behalf Of Jay West > > >>Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 16:57 > > >>To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > >>Subject: Re: About Electronics Questions > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>>And while we're about it, let's also have > > >>>IBM-maingrams@classicmp.org (so those who don't have room for such a > > >>>machine don't have to read about them) > > >>> > > >>>Minis@classiccmp.org (so the home-computer enthusiasts don't have to > > >>>read about PDP11s) > > >>> > > >>>PCs@classiccmp.org (so those who believe that no IBM clone is ever > > >>>'classic' don't get bothered with messages about them) > > >>> > > >>>Cleaning-plastic@classiccmp.org > > >>> > > >>>Metalwork@classiccmp.org (for people who want to make new mechanical > > >>>parts for their printers and disk drives) > > >> > > >>Wow, I've never seen my sarcasm meter quite so pegged. I > > >>think it's broken > > >>now due to overload *GRIN* > > >> > > >>Jay West > > >> > > >>--- > > >>[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! > Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. > Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com > From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri Jan 17 23:08:01 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: MV3100 M90 / VAX 4100 (was: VXT X terminal question) Message-ID: <0301180511.AA02548@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Antonio Carlini wrote: > The mainboards are the same (i.e. a KA50 *is* a KA52 etc.) Wow! I thought the CQBIC was not populated on the KA50. > and there is a console test that switches the identity > back and forth. Hmm. I do not suppose that this identity flag can be permanently stored anywhere other than in the firmware flash ROM. I'm sure DEC wouldn't want people to suddenly discover that their machine shape-shifts when the NVRAM battery is disconnected. So does this console test actually erase and reprogram a sector in the firmware flash ROM, or is the change only in effect until the next power cycle? MS From cb at mythtech.net Fri Jan 17 23:11:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: Mac TV Message-ID: >To be honest, if I found a Lisa 1 for 10 bucks I wouldn't accept $1,000 for >it.. I'd sell if for maybe a couple hundred, or preferably trade it for car >parts/minicomputers/etc. I really wouldn't feel right about getting $1,000 >from another collector for something I got for so little... Now a reseller >on the other hand... On the Lisa 1 topic... I just found out tonight that I in fact DID used to own a Lisa 1... I had always thought my only Lisa's were 2's and MacXL's (of which I have none any more). I was showing my brother my copy of Collectible Microcomputers, and he looked at the Lisa pictures. He said he always thought the double openings on the Twiggy disks were cool. I asked when he had seen one, and he said that the first Lisa we bought had those drives. I just about started crying. I could stomach the fact that all my Lisa 2's and MacXL's were either traded in or thrown out... but to now know that a Lisa 1 was also scrapped... it just kills me. -chris From jbmcb at hotmail.com Sat Jan 18 00:06:00 2003 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: Stock Ticker software early 80's and before References: <001201c2bd6b$472802b0$0149030a@mohg.com> <00a601c2bdda$a580d840$0200000a@ibm0187702152> Message-ID: How serendipitous! I just finished whipping together a stock ticker application for my company to demo at CES. I had a short lead time and was putting it together in VB, so my options were limited. I had some nice DirectX stock ticker code that absolutely throttled the machine, making simultaneous data capture of the stock info impossible. As I was flipping through an old copy of Commodore Gazzette magazine before going to sleep ( :), I found a nice algorithm to do a stock ticker in basic by continuously LEFT$ and MID$ shifting through a string, character by character. Worked like a charm! Thanks, "Outdated" computer platform magazines! ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Keohane To: cctech@classiccmp.org ; cctalk@classiccmp.org Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 10:43 PM Subject: Stock Ticker software early 80's and before There were software products, often with required peripherals (satellite, FM broadcast, leased line, etc.), that allowed an Apple ][ or TRS-80 or IBM PC, etc. to access stock or commodity ticker feeds in a real-time manner and monitor trades for price, volume and other limits. If activity was outside specified range the user would receive an alert like a screen/printer message or an audible beep or both. Some products were Radio Data Retriever, Intra-Day Analyst, PC Quote, etc. I am looking for documentation, news articles, manuals, reviews, ads, user guides, brochures, etc. describing such products. Not limited to micros either. There was a MERLIN stock market database and timesharing service with such abilities on Burroughs mainframes plus other systems on proprietary terminal networks (Quotron, Bloomberg, Instinet, etc.) that may have such abilities too. Even brokergae firms must have had software with such abilities inhouse on mainframes and other systems. If you can point me to any docs reflecting state-of-the-art around mid '83 and earlier please let me know via jimkeo@multi-platforms.com. Thanks! - Jim Jim Keohane, Multi-Platforms, Inc. "It's not whether you win or lose. It's whether you win!" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030118/688af20f/attachment.html From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 18 00:38:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: PET 2001 oddity In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030117180504.00b86e20@slave> Message-ID: <20030118064134.90964.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Adrian Vickers wrote: > I dug the 2001 out of the cupboard the other day... Can you give more information about *which* 2001 you have? There are at least two major motherboard revisions for the static-RAM PETs. They use different ROMs and RAMs. Also, as I have one, there are also models of 2001 that have _dynamic_ RAMs. My 2001-N has 32K worth of 4116 chips (from the factory) and a full-sized graphic keyboard. If it were for sale in Europe, it would most likely been labelled a 3032, for comparison, but here in the States, it says "2001" on the front. I bring it up because I _think_ you are talking about the original chicklet-keyboard SRAM PET, but you didn't come right out and say so. > Unfortunately, the PET seems to have developed an odd fault: It won't > take a BASIC program, and some keywords seem to be knackered... . . . > So.... I figure the BASIC ROM has become slightly corrupted, OR I've got > a flakey memory chip... > > 1) Can the BASIC ROM be swapped with one from, say, a 3032 or 4016? Most likely not. If your 2001 has 2114 SRAMs, perhaps. There are upgrade ROMs (BASIC 2.0, anyway) _for_ the 2001 > In fact, which one IS the BASIC ROM? BASIC lives in several ROMs, the Kernel lives in several ROMs. BASICs prior to 4.0 occupied $C000-$DFFF, and the Kernel occupied $E000-$FFFF, minus the PIAs and VIAs, etc., at $E800. BASIC 4.0 starts at $B000 to add room for diskette commands. In my PET, $9000, $A000 and $B000 are filled with user-supplied firmware (better machine-language monitor, BASIC extensions and a tape speeder). These sorts of things, plus ROMs for word processors and other applications were somewhat typical amongst serious PET users. Dunno if yours has anything like that, but if you find ROMs where you expect none to be, that's probably why. > 2) If it's a dodgy memory chip, what's the best way of isolating it? I > have an oscilloscope, but nada skill in this sort of thing. The typical way of testing RAMs in a C= service center was to rotate a pair of them from bank to bank and see if the symptoms shift. It was especially handy for detecting zero page problems. Not sure how you'd use an oscilloscope to detect transient memory errors not caused by design problems (like an undershoot problem). A logic analyzer might help... you could set it up to trigger when things don't happen when you expect, for example. > 3) If, as my money is on, it's the BASIC ROM, can it be replaced with an > EPROM - if so, there's a whole gamut of additional questions to > follow.... Yes, with the caveat that you might not find an EPROM with an exact pinout to match the masked programmed ROMs you'd be removing. In the case of _my_ 2001-N, it takes 2332 masked programmed ROMs, or 2532 EPROMs, *not* 2732 EPROMs. If your board is older, I do not know what parts exist that would drop in place. You can make/buy ROM pin swabbers to use any 2K or 4K EPROM in that socket. There is also a fellow on the cbm-hackers list who has a board that plugs into the CPU socket and provides a full boat of RAM and ROM. Very handy for sweeping away problems with 8K static PETs. Might even be cheaper than a box full of pin swabbers. Now... I _have_ seen RAM and ROM chip fail in PETs. What is much more likely, however, is to have those cheap-ass crappy sockets oxidize. Reseating and/or removing and reinstalling all the socketed parts is the first order of business. Check the pins of all the ICs you remove. Some chips from that vintage have enough silver in the plating to tarnish to black. Check the classiccmp archives for the "best" way to remove it. Be sure not to bend any pins while you are at it (easier than you might think - just fixed another machine where a corner pin was folded under and looked OK from 2 angles) So... if you are attempting to do a minimal repair that also looks much like the original, you might have to resort to pin swabbers if it's a flakey ROM chip. If you just want it to work and aren't hung up on "original" parts, you might want to contemplate a complete ROM/RAM transplant. ISTR the boards are around $35USD, but that's only a ballpark estimate. Good luck, -ethan P.S. - if you don't know about http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/ it's a great site with schematics and firmware. > Thanks in advance! > -- > Cheers, Ade. > Be where it's at, B-Racing! > http://b-racing.com > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From charles at socketcom.com Sat Jan 18 01:23:30 2003 From: charles at socketcom.com (Charles Ader) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: T&B Ansley IDC connectors References: <0751EFBE597394499B68C730740E08280984CC@socket011.socketcomm.com> <200301171740490756.09C28B50@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <000a01c2bec2$c85769e0$2200a8c0@homeportal.2wire.net> From: "Bruce Lane" > > On 17-Jan-03 at 17:27 Charles Ader wrote: > > >Unless you can find some new old stock you may be > >out of luck. > > Not necessarily. If it's just IDC-type DB25's > you need, they're common as grass from lots of > manufacturers, Tyco among them. I've got a whole > flat of them around here somewhere. > You may have missed the point of Jeff's question. He was looking for a particular type and color of IDC connector. The company, T&B Ansley, is no longer in business. The style and color of their product was unique. Apart from esthetics these IDCs were not, in my opinion, a good product. They tended to fail when used with flat ribbon cable made by anyone other than T&B Ansley. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Jan 18 01:30:26 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:39 2005 Subject: T&B Ansley IDC connectors In-Reply-To: <000a01c2bec2$c85769e0$2200a8c0@homeportal.2wire.net> References: <0751EFBE597394499B68C730740E08280984CC@socket011.socketcomm.com> <200301171740490756.09C28B50@192.168.42.129> <000a01c2bec2$c85769e0$2200a8c0@homeportal.2wire.net> Message-ID: <200301172333050983.0B050A4C@192.168.42.129> Good eve, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 17-Jan-03 at 23:25 Charles Ader wrote: >You may have missed the point of Jeff's question. > >He was looking for a particular type and color >of IDC connector. The company, T&B Ansley, is Ohhhh, OK... You're right, I missed that. >no longer in business. The style and color of >their product was unique. Apart from esthetics >these IDCs were not, in my opinion, a good >product. They tended to fail when used with >flat ribbon cable made by anyone other than >T&B Ansley. Wait... I remember those. If I recall correctly, the contacts on the flat cable side were designed to handle a very specific shape of conductor. Their flaring did not lend itself well to -- as you point out -- anything other than T&B cable. I also seem to recall that their mechanical strength, in terms of the clamp portion, was not what it could have been. Thanks for clearing that up anyway. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk) From loedman1 at juno.com Sat Jan 18 01:32:01 2003 From: loedman1 at juno.com (loedman1@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: (no subject) Enough already Message-ID: <20030117.233129.-67137.0.loedman1@juno.com> >A resounding FUCK YOU ya Texas hick. The message is decidedly ON-TOPIC as >it refers to my main point, which is that old software will remain >copyrighted for years to come, without any logic. >You need to keep deleting and moving on, as I'm sure many others have >done. Next time you have a problem then take it private and don't litter >the list with your drivel. >Or better yet, just filter my messages out, OK? >Ya dick. >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival Might I suggest that you go and start your own list where you can belittle and insult your own members and leave the uninformed political statements and personal attacks off of this one. Rich Stephenson From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Jan 18 02:15:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004201c2beca$19f78bc0$513bcd18@D73KSM11> > The best argument for this is the fact that many products of > the largest corporations today were derived from previous > works that entered into the public domain. They took those > works, built upon them and created yet more value and > innovation (not unlike the patent system). The point is that > if this free flow of creativity is stopped by holding up > copyrights nearly indefinitely, creativity may suffer. Sure, > people can always go out and produce their own characters or > works of fiction or whatever. But the more corporations > maintain control, the more power they will have to claim that > other works are infringing on their copyrights. > Often it simply isn't worth it to build upon something unless you enjoy exclusive rights. The restoration of old films is a good example. The studios that hold copyrights to old pictures spend huge amounts of money to restore the prints for issue in DVD format precisely because they hold exclusive rights and can make back what they spend. In the case of public domain films, this simply doesn't happen. As a result, you cannot obtain a decent quality copy of most public domain films because no one is willing to spend money on remastering when the public domain distributors are selling the film for $6.99 or less a pop. If you want an example, go on Amazon and read the DVD reviews for "Royal Wedding" a 1951 Fred Astaire/Jane Powell film that went public domain in 1979 when MGM neglected to renew the copyright. From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sat Jan 18 02:19:01 2003 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: Mac TV In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You're a better man than I, I suppose. I'm a firm believer in charging what the market will bear. Now, will I wail and gnash my teeth when the inflated market collapses and it's worth 10 bucks again, if I didn't manage to sell it? Nah. It cuts both ways. On Friday, January 17, 2003, at 09:16 PM, Will Jennings wrote: > To be honest, if I found a Lisa 1 for 10 bucks I wouldn't accept > $1,000 for it.. I'd sell if for maybe a couple hundred, or preferably > trade it for car parts/minicomputers/etc. I really wouldn't feel right > about getting $1,000 from another collector for something I got for so > little... Now a reseller on the other hand... > > Will J > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Jan 18 02:27:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <200301172005.PAA01624@conman.org> Message-ID: <004301c2becb$c9ba6630$513bcd18@D73KSM11> > It was thus said that the Great Dan Wright once stated: > > > > > WRONG! If it has value to you, then pay for it. > > > > The problem is that the "theft" argument assumes that EVERY > copy = 1 > > lost sale. This argument is total bullshit. Most people who copy > > music/movies/whatever wouldn't have bought it if they couldn't copy > > it, so no (or at best, very few -- FAR fewer then the > number of copies > > that are made) actual SALES are lost. (If you don't > believe me, there > > has been a lot of statistical research done that shows > this; about the > > only contradiction comes from the RIAA's highly dubious > closed-books > > "research". Sorry I don't have any sources at hand, but > it's easy to find them on the WWW.) Hey, let's get Michael Nadeau to help us test the Captain's theory. With his permission, we'll scan his entire Collectibel Microcomputers book into a pdf file and post it all over the internet. Michael, you don't need to worry about this because your sales are going to skyrocket just as soon as the book is made available to everyone for free!!! From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Jan 18 02:29:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: Unauthorized copying In-Reply-To: <2517.4.20.168.156.1042834694.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <004401c2becb$ff87e5d0$513bcd18@D73KSM11> > Unauthorized copying is, under some (but not all) > cirucumstances, illegal and/or unethical, but it is NOT > theft. It is a different sort of offsense. > I believe that the commonly applied term is "piracy." From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Jan 18 02:30:01 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: RK07 repairable? In-Reply-To: ; from ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk on Fri, Jan 17, 2003 at 20:35:00 CET References: <20030117005557.U57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20030118091552.S57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.01.17 20:35 Tony Duell wrote: > The DEC 'bricks' -- the H744, etc, regulators -- used in the 10.5" > PDP11/34 box are relatively friendly to work on. They are swtichers, > but they start from a 30V AC input (from a large mains transformer -- > an isolating transformer). The owner showed me already a big transformer (should be around 200..400 VA) from the PSU. He also said that the PSU is modular and one of the modules is broken. An other reason why I an expecting a /34. > So they're not as dangerous to work on as most SMPSUs. Well, I have a isolating transformer... > And they're fairly simple electronically. Hmm. I have no clue about SMPSUs. Good reason to learn more about them. Especially as there is a SGI Personal Iris 4D35 with broken PSU waiting for repair also. Fortunately I know a electronics designer who has designed several SMPSUs. So I am able to get some help. > On the other hand, the PDP11/44 supply is painful. Heared about that. > smoothing capacitors -- the later are coke-can sized (!). I have a 78 mF (mili, not micro) capacitor from a Printronix chain printer. It is about 1' tall and 5" in diameter... -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Sat Jan 18 02:51:00 2003 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <004301c2becb$c9ba6630$513bcd18@D73KSM11> References: <200301172005.PAA01624@conman.org> Message-ID: <3E28A43E.8746.141F5D75@localhost> From: "Wayne M. Smith" To: Subject: RE: (no subject) Send reply to: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date sent: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 00:29:53 -0800 > Hey, let's get Michael Nadeau to help us test the Captain's theory. > With his permission, we'll scan his entire Collectibel Microcomputers > book into a pdf file and post it all over the internet. Michael, you > don't need to worry about this because your sales are going to > skyrocket just as soon as the book is made available to everyone for > free!!! Perhaps I'm in a tiny minority here, but if such a work did get posted for free download, I would eventually buy the hard copy anyway. Afterall, I frequently like to take a book or magazine outside with me to read when I step out to smoke (and an American Spirit or Dunhill can take 10 minutes or so to go through.) It would be very impractical and silly to try to haul my PC out to the yard in order to read an e-document during these downtimes. Likewise, reading in bed or in the bathtub, or on the bus, or on the ferry, or at the laundromat requires hardcopy as well. :) I've been mentally compiling some other thoughts on this topic over the past few days, and may post them later. :p -- Scarletdown From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Jan 18 03:45:01 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: Intellectual "PROPERTY" Message-ID: <3E28CE90.25603.B20901A@localhost> Reading classiccmp today I wanted to puke. I'm sorry, I'm with Stallman, fuck the corporate spin-doctors. In the real world ideas are free and even Bob Dylan was noted for his free use of others material. "Intellectual PROPERTY" ? That's a lawyer's and corporate term. Meaning the extension of material possession law to ideas cause lord knows they've got property rights down to a science. The pharmaceutical companies almost patented the human genone but were prevented by a few alert clinicists. Monsanto is busy trying to tie up our very grain foodstuff, our health is held ransom to the corporations. And some little sucks that hope they can emulate Bill Gates are peddling this game ? Sony, MCA, and the music conglomerates got their "copyrights" by stealing the songs from the musicians and composers for the most part. There's a long history of poor jazz and blues musicians behind all those songs. And even McCartney and Jagger will admit that they copied American blues musicians in what they did. These sterling words that the creator of some idea should benefit from his creation are simply bullshit to provide cover for the suits who do benefit. For the most part they paid a (barely) living wage to the artists who did actually do the creative part, whether songster, cartoonist, writer, or coder. Even Edison and his company ripped off Tesla. Damn, what has the impersonality of computers wrought ? A generation of egocentric, alienated, individualists with some sort of subjective morality ? It's OK to do a bad thing if it furthers my objectives ? A world I never made ! GNU forever ! Alt 2600 is looking good if I can just get by the spelling, the ingenuity, and "z" for "s". Get a new suit and eat more. You'll still die eventually. Lawrence Live life like you're never_gonna-die Love like you've never been hurt Dance and sing like no-one is watcing or listening And rejoice in our creation. lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Jan 18 03:46:14 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: About Electronics Questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E28CE90.18787.B209083@localhost> Well for me the newsgroups were always the biggest source of info. The sci.electronics ones have a lot of helpful people and there are the various music ones. The web I find for the most part frustrating and time consuming. If I don't get an answer on the list or it's too off-topic I next search the newsgroups for a suitable milleu. As much as I learned on the list, and I must say I'm fond of it, I've learned twice as much on the comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware, and at one time on the Atari St one, for my particular needs. Lawrence On 17 Jan 2003, , liste@artware.qc.ca wrote: > > Another question would be : where should one go to discuss > electronics? I have 2 projects I'd like some feedback on : > repairing an ancient guitar tube amp (specifically, I think > the caps in the power supply are hosored, causing a loud > humm... but where to buy high voltage caps of non-standard > capcitance?), and I'd really like to get into PIC > programming. > I'd really like to have a resource where I can ask all the > newbie > questions that crop up. (Yes, I've RTFMed, but far to often > there's little subtle things that aren't obvious, but that > someone with experience will know. > > > On 16-Jan-2003 Tony Duell wrote: > > Perhaps it should be user-programmable (or patchable in > > the case of an analogue machine). This would rule out > > embedded microcontorllers, but would allow computers based > > round microcontrollers (the Philips G7000 (Magnavox > > something-or-other) has an 8048 as the main CPU, but I > > don't think many would call it a microcontroller, for > > example). > > Odessey? > > -Philip lgwalker@ mts.net From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Jan 18 03:48:01 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: VXT X terminal question Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C904@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Michael, > (Jumping on my horse again, making Ultrix run on VS3100 M76 would take a > screenful of code. I have the source if anyone wants to take a stab.) I have the Ultrix V4.50 source tree [no comment] and will be porting it to the M76, *and* (which is my target) my beloved 4000-700A. And life will be great if I can find a 705A CPU for that box. --f From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Jan 18 03:51:01 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: VXT X terminal question Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C906@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > > (Jumping on my horse again, making Ultrix run on VS3100 M76 > would take a > > screenful of code. I have the source if anyone wants to > take a stab.) > I have the Ultrix V4.50 source tree [no comment] and will be > porting it to Ugh. Make that V4.20, obviously. Development is done on my V4.5 box.. Shitty thing is, that I probably will also have to run a 4.2 system as a second-step system for bootstrapping, and I dont have a 4.2/vax tk50 or cd set. --f From freddy at kotelna.sk Sat Jan 18 04:15:02 2003 From: freddy at kotelna.sk (Adrien Farkas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: VMS command question and help, off-topic Message-ID: <20030117185224.GA733@kotol.kotelna.sk> Hello VMS folks, just a very simple question, what does a command like this do: BACKUP MULTIA_V72.BCK/SAVE DVA0:/IMAGE/VERIFY (it's alpha vms, so not sure whether floppy is named DVA0: on VAXen, too). I know basicaly what this does, my question is whether the .BCK file has some special format or whether UNIX command like this: $ cat MULTIA_V72.BCK > /dev/diskette0 or $ dd if=MULTIA_V72.BCK of=/dev/diskette0 is equivalent. If it's some special format, were it possible that you issue this command for me on some VMS and grab the diskette raw file and make it available for me? the image is available at http://www.kotelna.sk/freddy/multia_v72.bck (1419264 bytes). Cheers, -- freddy ...for more info 'finger freddy@kotol.kotelna.sk' From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Jan 18 04:31:01 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn Message-ID: <20030118102331.14204.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com> >> just checked mine again and it's 25-ANC13-1000049 >> >Mine is 25-ANC13-1000034, and Rob O'Donnell said his is 25-ANC13-1000038. well if Rob's was the last then they obviously didn't do a very good job of numbering things :-) Unless Rob's was the last one released by Acorn, but they all sat in storage for a while... > Do either of you think you have a Disc 1 for it? no discs at all I'm afraid :-( hence why I was asking about whther there's a sensible ftp site to put them on so if a working set can be collected at least they can be archived somewhere (the same goes for manuals really, but scanning those would be a major pain I expect!) that used to be the problem - the hardware used to get thrown out but discs would lie around on shelves until someone did a bit of spring cleaning now and then; they would have been trashed seperately and maybe straight into a bin in the office :-( cheers Jules (who has too many systems that don't work for lack of necessary discs :-) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From dmiller38 at neo.rr.com Sat Jan 18 04:36:07 2003 From: dmiller38 at neo.rr.com (Darin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: FS (quick): Tandy 1000 items, monitor, TL2, keyboard Message-ID: <001301c2be73$36df3730$0502a8c0@DTMCSILAPTOP> Would like to purchase the cm-11 monitor. Darin Miller DTM Computer Services, Inc. dtmcsi@transedge.com Business: 330-452-1211 Cell: 330-607-0613 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030118/2abba8f2/attachment.html From subsolar at subsolar.org Sat Jan 18 04:36:50 2003 From: subsolar at subsolar.org (Paul) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: PerSci Model 277 Dual 8" Floppy Drives - Info Needed In-Reply-To: <001601c2be73$73e6d7a0$5b76033e@local.sunplan.com> References: <001601c2be73$73e6d7a0$5b76033e@local.sunplan.com> Message-ID: <1042847720.9526.13.camel@azure.subsolar> Cool drives ... have not see any for 20 years since the old Sol-20 with a Helios 2 drive subsystem I used to play with. One issue I ran into was the eject mechanism would jam sometimes on them, if you would grab the disk as it was still coming out. Checking the mechanics would be the first thing I would check. Paul On Fri, 2003-01-17 at 15:57, Tim Myers wrote: > Does anyone have any info on these drives? I have some in a CP/M system > (Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1), and they seem completely dead. They have an > electric load mechanism, but when I insert a disk, nothing happens. > Popped the case and can't see anything obviously out of place. > > Tim. From mike at ambientdesign.com Sat Jan 18 04:37:32 2003 From: mike at ambientdesign.com (mike@ambientdesign.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: PET 2001 oddity In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030117180504.00b86e20@slave> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030118131442.00e7a928@pop3.ihug.co.nz> At 18:18 17/01/03 +0000, Adrian Vickers wrote: >So.... I figure the BASIC ROM has become slightly corrupted, OR I've got a >flakey memory chip which reads OK but doesn't write properly. The question >is, how to find out? >1) Can the BASIC ROM be swapped with one from, say, a 3032 or 4016? In >fact, which one IS the BASIC ROM? >3) If, as my money is on, it's the BASIC ROM, can it be replaced with an >EPROM - if so, there's a whole gamut of additional questions to follow.... Sorry, not knowing much about this machine in particular, can't suggest too much, but... >2) If it's a dodgy memory chip, what's the best way of isolating it? I have >an oscilloscope, but nada skill in this sort of thing. ... at least perhaps you can rule out the RAM this way. Assuming memory is socketed, what I'd do is swap it between two banks. Just take all the ICs in one bank, and swap them with the another. If it's a memory fault, your sypmtoms will change (probably quite a lot). If it's not a memory fault, chances are the symptoms will remain the same. This method depends on a couple of assumptions (that there's only one faulty memory IC, for instance), but generally it's pretty safe to make those assumptions, and it's saved me lots of time in the past. The thought of trying to track down a RAM fault using an oscilloscope sounds pretty scary to me, but perhaps there's a way of doing it. For what it's worth though, this sounds more like a faulty BASIC ROM then a RAM problem, as you suggest. Mike. From subsolar at subsolar.org Sat Jan 18 04:38:15 2003 From: subsolar at subsolar.org (Paul) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <200301170824.DAA109992946@shell.TheWorld.com> References: <03c301c2bdea$ddbb1ee0$0100a8c0@primate> <200301170824.DAA109992946@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <1042858764.9939.55.camel@azure.subsolar> On Fri, 2003-01-17 at 02:24, Megan wrote: > >Now that's total BS .... If I copy a program/video/song you still have > >the darned thing, unlike if I walk off with your computers. Somebody > > Ah, but why are you taking a copy? Is it perhaps because it has > value to you? That it entertains? If so, then someone had to > go through the process of creation to produce it. Not unlike > building a house. They deserve something to compensate them. Apparently you did not read my whole comment, I said that if you find something of value that the author deserves compensation. What about if the author no-longer makes the thing I copied available, the author apparently does not want compensation. > >that makes a copy of something *may* be depriving an author of possibly > >income, but if someone is too cheap or really can't afford to buy it in > >the first place, "lost income" is just BS. > > That seems to be the general argument of the recent and current > generations... that just because they can't pay for something > shouldn't preclude them having it... "they are entitled to it". > > WRONG! If it has value to you, then pay for it. If I perform a service cheaper than you and some of your customers *may* not be using your services then that's THEFT? That is basically what the "Intellectual Property" industry is claiming if you follow there arguments to their complete conclusion. As I said at the end of my message, if you find value in a program/music/story that somebody else made they deserve some form of compensation. > This is not to say that I support the RIAA... they have been > excessivly draconian in the measures they have taken. I don't > think they should be able to get a greater amount of fees from > they don't need to add NEW laws to protect against specific > forms of CI, just enforce the old ones. Every time a new technology has come out the copyright holders have sought additional controls beyond what they already have. This last bit was worse that than the previous 150years because of the rise of media cartels and congress basically letting them write the laws without opposing input. > >Ideas and physical objects are totally different!!! > > How physical is physical... an idea in your head which hasn't > been realized isn't physical, but once you have realized it > through generation of a song, like writing it on paper, you > have a physical product (and the performance is physical). > > If you develop a computer program, it exists as magnetic > domains on a disk, or as patterns of electrons in a bit > stream... electrons are just as physical. By definition "natural property" is limited to one physical manifestation, even if you and I have identical cars, yours does not belong to me, even if I built it. This is different that "intellectual property" which is not limited to one physical manifestation. If we both have identical CDs and I happen to own the copyright on it I basically own your CD and get to tell you what you can do with it. If you convert your CD to an MP3 file I still own the copyright on it music and can control what you can do with it. > >That said I believe if you find a program/video/song useful that > >somebody else created they deserve some sort of compensation, but the > >whole idea of "Intellectual Property" is bullshit. > > You're entitled to your belief... but I won't shed a tear if > you steal IP and are caught... Re-read what I said, I consider "Intellectual Property" BS because it is not property and is not something you an own. Knowledge is by it's nature the property of the community at large, it just that government has granted the original creator a limited right to control reproduction of a work to encourage production of new works. Once this time period is over giving the author the *opportunity* profit from the work (they are not guaranteed profit), it falls into the public domain where all may take advantage of it, at least that was the original theory in the U.S.A. What we have now is a bunch of feudal lords controlling the majority of our current culture and letting the majority of their "property" molder & decay just to protect a few "strategic" resources with Serfs giving up their freedom just to gain some possible protection by pledging fealty to them. If copyrights had been always treated as property the way they are now, our society would be much poorer for it. If copyright suddenly disappeared, people would still write stories, sing songs, program computers and society at-large would continue. The generally quality of works would probably be lower so copyright in general is probably good for society. I think we can agree on the following two points: 1. Creators deserve recognition & compensation for adding to society. 2. The current is weighted in favor of copyright holders at the expense of the rest of society. Regards, Paul P.S. to the best of my knowledge I am not liable of any illegal copyright infringement and probably have compensated copyright holders more than average. From subsolar at subsolar.org Sat Jan 18 04:38:57 2003 From: subsolar at subsolar.org (Paul) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: (OT) Unauthorized copying ... was Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1042859321.9939.65.camel@azure.subsolar> On Fri, 2003-01-17 at 01:53, Sellam Ismail wrote: > For example, I can never create a character called Dickey Mouse because > Disney would have a shit fit and sue my ass off. A company can't call > it's operating system "Lindows" without getting its ass sued off. This is > a real problem. The intent is not to rip-off other people's work, but to > use it as a basis for new creative invention. This is how we advance as a > civilization. If you don't believe me, sit back and let the corproations > maintain ownership of everything, and then let's see how far we progress > in a generation. I'm having fun watching companies as they use the DMCA for stopping competing products like universal garage door openers (Chamberlain vs skylink) and competing toner cartridges (Lexmark vs. Static Control Components). This is a totally wacked system with a runaway program. > Ok, the day you read in the paper that I blew up Disney's headquarters, > I'll also be sending you a check for One Million Dollars!! That would be an act of commercial terrorism ... even talking about it could land your ass in jail! :^) Paul From subsolar at subsolar.org Sat Jan 18 04:39:40 2003 From: subsolar at subsolar.org (Paul) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: (OT) Unauthorized copying ... was Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1042859359.9939.68.camel@azure.subsolar> On Fri, 2003-01-17 at 01:53, Sellam Ismail wrote: > For example, I can never create a character called Dickey Mouse because > Disney would have a shit fit and sue my ass off. A company can't call > it's operating system "Lindows" without getting its ass sued off. This is > a real problem. The intent is not to rip-off other people's work, but to > use it as a basis for new creative invention. This is how we advance as a > civilization. If you don't believe me, sit back and let the corproations > maintain ownership of everything, and then let's see how far we progress > in a generation. I'm having fun watching companies as they use the DMCA for stopping competing products like universal garage door openers (Chamberlain vs skylink) and competing toner cartridges (Lexmark vs. Static Control Components). This is a totally wacked system with a runaway program. > Ok, the day you read in the paper that I blew up Disney's headquarters, > I'll also be sending you a check for One Million Dollars!! That would be an act of commercial terrorism ... even talking about it could land your ass in jail! :^) Paul From subsolar at subsolar.org Sat Jan 18 04:40:21 2003 From: subsolar at subsolar.org (Paul) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: (OT) Unauthorized copying ... was Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <200301170824.DAA109992946@shell.TheWorld.com> References: <03c301c2bdea$ddbb1ee0$0100a8c0@primate> <200301170824.DAA109992946@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <1042859408.9941.74.camel@azure.subsolar> On Fri, 2003-01-17 at 02:24, Megan wrote: > >Now that's total BS .... If I copy a program/video/song you still have > >the darned thing, unlike if I walk off with your computers. Somebody > > Ah, but why are you taking a copy? Is it perhaps because it has > value to you? That it entertains? If so, then someone had to > go through the process of creation to produce it. Not unlike > building a house. They deserve something to compensate them. Apparently you did not read my whole comment, I said that if you find something of value that the author deserves compensation. What about if the author no-longer makes the thing I copied available, the author apparently does not want compensation. > >that makes a copy of something *may* be depriving an author of possibly > >income, but if someone is too cheap or really can't afford to buy it in > >the first place, "lost income" is just BS. > > That seems to be the general argument of the recent and current > generations... that just because they can't pay for something > shouldn't preclude them having it... "they are entitled to it". > > WRONG! If it has value to you, then pay for it. If I perform a service cheaper than you and some of your customers *may* not be using your services then that's THEFT? That is basically what the "Intellectual Property" industry is claiming if you follow there arguments to their complete conclusion. As I said at the end of my message, if you find value in a program/music/story that somebody else made they deserve some form of compensation. > This is not to say that I support the RIAA... they have been > excessivly draconian in the measures they have taken. I don't > think they should be able to get a greater amount of fees from > they don't need to add NEW laws to protect against specific > forms of CI, just enforce the old ones. Every time a new technology has come out the copyright holders have sought additional controls beyond what they already have. This last bit was worse that than the previous 150years because of the rise of media cartels and congress basically letting them write the laws without opposing input. > >Ideas and physical objects are totally different!!! > > How physical is physical... an idea in your head which hasn't > been realized isn't physical, but once you have realized it > through generation of a song, like writing it on paper, you > have a physical product (and the performance is physical). > > If you develop a computer program, it exists as magnetic > domains on a disk, or as patterns of electrons in a bit > stream... electrons are just as physical. By definition "natural property" is limited to one physical manifestation, even if you and I have identical cars, yours does not belong to me, even if I built it. This is different that "intellectual property" which is not limited to one physical manifestation. If we both have identical CDs and I happen to own the copyright on it I basically own your CD and get to tell you what you can do with it. If you convert your CD to an MP3 file I still own the copyright on it music and can control what you can do with it. > >That said I believe if you find a program/video/song useful that > >somebody else created they deserve some sort of compensation, but the > >whole idea of "Intellectual Property" is bullshit. > > You're entitled to your belief... but I won't shed a tear if > you steal IP and are caught... Re-read what I said, I consider "Intellectual Property" BS because it is not property and is not something you an own. Knowledge is by it's nature the property of the community at large, it just that government has granted the original creator a limited right to control reproduction of a work to encourage production of new works. Once this time period is over giving the author the *opportunity* profit from the work (they are not guaranteed profit), it falls into the public domain where all may take advantage of it, at least that was the original theory in the U.S.A. What we have now is a bunch of feudal lords controlling the majority of our current culture and letting the majority of their "property" molder & decay just to protect a few "strategic" resources with Serfs giving up their freedom just to gain some possible protection by pledging fealty to them. If copyrights had been always treated as property the way they are now, our society would be much poorer for it. If copyright suddenly disappeared, people would still write stories, sing songs, program computers and society at-large would continue. The generally quality of works would probably be lower so copyright in general is probably good for society. I think we can agree on the following two points: 1. Creators deserve recognition & compensation for adding to society. 2. The current is weighted in favor of copyright holders at the expense of the rest of society. Regards, Paul P.S. to the best of my knowledge I am not liable of any illegal copyright infringement and probably have compensated copyright holders more than average. From freddy at kotelna.sk Sat Jan 18 04:41:05 2003 From: freddy at kotelna.sk (Adrien Farkas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: VMS command question and help, off-topic Message-ID: <20030117185224.GA733@kotol.kotelna.sk> Hello VMS folks, just a very simple question, what does a command like this do: BACKUP MULTIA_V72.BCK/SAVE DVA0:/IMAGE/VERIFY (it's alpha vms, so not sure whether floppy is named DVA0: on VAXen, too). I know basicaly what this does, my question is whether the .BCK file has some special format or whether UNIX command like this: $ cat MULTIA_V72.BCK > /dev/diskette0 or $ dd if=MULTIA_V72.BCK of=/dev/diskette0 is equivalent. If it's some special format, were it possible that you issue this command for me on some VMS and grab the diskette raw file and make it available for me? the image is available at http://www.kotelna.sk/freddy/multia_v72.bck (1419264 bytes). Cheers, -- freddy ...for more info 'finger freddy@kotol.kotelna.sk' From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Jan 18 04:41:47 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: Intellectual "PROPERTY" In-Reply-To: <3E28CE90.25603.B20901A@localhost> Message-ID: <004501c2bed9$cf4017e0$513bcd18@D73KSM11> > Reading classiccmp today I wanted to puke. I'm sorry, > I'm with Stallman, fuck the corporate spin-doctors. > > In the real world ideas are free and even Bob Dylan was > noted for his free use of others material. "Intellectual > PROPERTY" ? That's a lawyer's and corporate term. Meaning the > extension of material possession law to > ideas cause lord knows they've got property rights > down to a science. The pharmaceutical companies > almost patented the human genone but were prevented > by a few alert clinicists. Monsanto is busy trying to tie > up our very grain foodstuff, our health is held ransom to > the corporations. And some little sucks that hope they > can emulate Bill Gates are peddling this game ? > > Sony, MCA, and the music conglomerates got their > "copyrights" by stealing the songs from the musicians > and composers for the most part. There's a long history > of poor jazz and blues musicians behind all those songs. > And even McCartney and Jagger will admit that they > copied American blues musicians in what they did. > > These sterling words that the creator of some idea should > benefit from his creation are simply bullshit to provide > cover for the suits who do benefit. For the most part they > paid a (barely) living wage to the artists who did actually > do the creative part, whether songster, cartoonist, writer, > or coder. Even Edison and his company ripped off Tesla. > > Damn, what has the impersonality of computers wrought ? > > A generation of egocentric, alienated, individualists with > some sort of subjective morality ? It's OK to do a bad > thing if it furthers my objectives ? > > A world I never made ! GNU forever ! > > Alt 2600 is looking good if I can just get by the spelling, > the ingenuity, and "z" for "s". > > Get a new suit and eat more. You'll still die eventually. > > Lawrence > I think you left out the part about the fact that we stole the country from the Indians. From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Jan 18 04:42:35 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: (no subject) Enough already In-Reply-To: <20030117.233129.-67137.0.loedman1@juno.com> Message-ID: <3E28D5EA.5116.B3D49D0@localhost> On the other hand Doc's statement for Sellam to just keep his mouth shut did come out of left field. I couldn't make any sense out of the message other than it was an objection to his comments on the extension of the Disney Patent. I know some of us like Walt and Mickey, but really, that was like an Eddie Murphy response to a criticism of Stevie Wonder. On the other hand I do agree that this OT has gone on long enough, and there are many things we will all disagree on outside of our common interests in micro ( :^) ) computers. Lawrence On 17 Jan 2003, , loedman1@juno.com wrote: > > >A resounding FUCK YOU ya Texas hick. The message is > >decidedly ON-TOPIC > as > >it refers to my main point, which is that old software will > >remain copyrighted for years to come, without any logic. > > >You need to keep deleting and moving on, as I'm sure many > >others have done. Next time you have a problem then take > >it private and don't > litter > >the list with your drivel. > > >Or better yet, just filter my messages out, OK? > > >Ya dick. > > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > > Might I suggest that you go and start your own list where > you can belittle and insult your own members and leave the > uninformed political statements and personal attacks off of > this one. > Rich > Stephenson May you get halfway to heaven before Satan learns you're dead, or 3/4s of the way to the bar before your wife finds you're missing. Old Newfoundland Blessing bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From arcarlini at iee.org Sat Jan 18 05:09:01 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: VMS command question and help, off-topic In-Reply-To: <20030117185224.GA733@kotol.kotelna.sk> Message-ID: <000401c2bee2$7a5851d0$cb87fe3e@athlon> > just a very simple question, what does a command like this do: > > BACKUP MULTIA_V72.BCK/SAVE DVA0:/IMAGE/VERIFY That takes a saveset (MULTIA_V72.BCK) and expands it onto a floppy (DVA0:). It's an image backup and the result at the end will be an ODS-2 formatted floppy with files placed in the appropriate places (i.e. if the original floppy that was backed up was bootable, the result should be too). > I know basicaly what this does, my question is whether the > .BCK file has some special format or whether UNIX command like this: It's special (internal redundancy records and so on might be in there - it was originally developed to save data on flakey tapes). > If it's some special format, were it possible that you issue > this command for me on some VMS and grab the diskette raw > file and make it available for me? the image is available at > http://www.kotelna.sk/freddy/multia_v72.bck > (1419264 bytes). Can you zip it up so it's easier to download? Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jan 18 05:34:01 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? In-Reply-To: Brian Chase "Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability?" (Jan 17, 20:19) References: Message-ID: <10301181102.ZM24420@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 17, 20:19, Brian Chase wrote: > On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > It's not just on a system like that. Earlier this week I got my first SGI > > system, a nice little O2. It's about the crappiest of the O2's, but it's > > still a *very* nice UNIX workstation. I thought that it was doing OK at > > surfing until yesterday when I wanted to check something on gamespot, it > > absolutly crawled to a halt trying to render the pages (well the browser > > did, the rest of the system was nice and responsive). I swear it took close > > to 10 minutes to get to the third page (the one that had the data I was > > curious about). Wow, that must have been some page! I use an O2 at work, and it's generally pretty good -- but some versions of Netscape are definitely "less good" than others. It's worth trying to get a recent version, or as an alternative, I think some versions of Mozila do pretty well. Make sure the O2 has plenty of memory. Adding 128MB made a huge difference to mine. > > I think I'll now run the browser on my Linux box and retarget it to the > > SGI's desktop (at least until I get an Octane). > > I'll wait to get an Onyx. Actually, the Origin 2000s are quite lovely, > too. They're still really off topic for this list. Yes, though so is an O2, really. Actually, an Origin2000 won't run Netscape much better than an O2 unless there's quite a discrepancy in the processors. My Origin2000 (8 x R10K @ 180MHz) can be outdone (for Netscape) by a fast R10K O2. And of course most O2000s have no display. But if I use an old Indigo Elan for the display, it speeds up dramatically, compared to using other displays. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jan 18 05:34:55 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: PET 2001 oddity In-Reply-To: Adrian Vickers "PET 2001 oddity" (Jan 17, 18:18) References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030117180504.00b86e20@slave> Message-ID: <10301181137.ZM24433@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 17, 18:18, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > Unfortunately, the PET seems to have developed an odd fault: It won't take > a BASIC program, and some keywords seem to be knackered... > So.... I figure the BASIC ROM has become slightly corrupted, OR I've got a > flakey memory chip which reads OK but doesn't write properly. The question > is, how to find out? Swap some of the RAM chips around and see if it makes a difference. If it does, particularly if it fixes it, swap them back -- it might just be a bad socket contact. Be careful with the RAM chips: if you have the type of PET I think you do, they're MOS Technology 6550, aka unobtainium, and unlike any other RAM chip. > 1) Can the BASIC ROM be swapped with one from, say, a 3032 or 4016? In > fact, which one IS the BASIC ROM? No. BASIC (and also the rest of the code, whether you call it a kernel or a monitor, or "stuff") is spread over several chips. And in the early PETs, the ROMs too are MOS Technology specials, and the different versions of PETs had different ROMs. In fact, there was an upgrade for the originals, because they didn't handle the IEEE routines properly, which made it impossible to use disks properly (amongst other things). > 2) If it's a dodgy memory chip, what's the best way of isolating it? I have > an oscilloscope, but nada skill in this sort of thing. > 3) If, as my money is on, it's the BASIC ROM, can it be replaced with an > EPROM - if so, there's a whole gamut of additional questions to follow.... If it's a later unit with 24-pin 2332 mask ROMs, then a TMS2532 EPROM can be used (not a 2732, nor other 2532s that don't have the TMS prefix). If it's got 28-pin MOS Technology MPS6540 ROMs, you'd need a carrier to shuffle some signals, at the very least, and possibly some logic to handle the multiple select lines. The good news, though, is that I have a chicklet-keyboard 2001-N as well, and if necessary, I could probably do a ROM dump for you (though IIRC it used to be on the 'net somewhere). I wouldn't need to move more than a few hundreweight of stuff to get at it ;-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From arcarlini at iee.org Sat Jan 18 05:45:01 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: MV3100 M90 / VAX 4100 (was: VXT X terminal question) In-Reply-To: <0301180511.AA02548@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <000601c2bee7$8c5b4630$cb87fe3e@athlon> > Wow! I thought the CQBIC was not populated on the KA50. I'm fairly sure the mainboards are identical (i.e. the same part number). I've never been inside a VAX 4000-100 so I've never had the chance to personally check this, but the last time I saw a parts list, the part numbers were the same. > Hmm. I do not suppose that this identity flag can be > permanently stored anywhere other than in the firmware flash > ROM. I'm sure DEC wouldn't want people to suddenly discover > that their machine shape-shifts when the NVRAM battery is > disconnected. So does this console test actually erase and > reprogram a sector in the firmware flash ROM, or is the > change only in effect until the next power cycle? It's stored in the flash EPROM - it rewrites it as part of the test (and warns you not to switch off while it is doing so). The change is permanent (until you run the test again and switch back). I doubt HP care whether customers know this or not now. I doubt they cared even back then: switching from a UV3100-90 to a VAX 4000-100 didn't get you anything extra (unless you paid for a new case) and it did cost you more in licence fees. Switching the other way disabled Qbus and DSSI, so although your licence cost you less, you got less for it. And if you wanted the cheaper licence you would have bought the cheaper machine anyway! Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Sat Jan 18 06:03:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: Musings on BabyVAX video In-Reply-To: <0301180415.AA02415@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <000701c2beea$0d7dd410$cb87fe3e@athlon> > I thought so too. But what about SPX? Can it go into a > pre-M76 VS3100? And what about VS2K SPX? (It would of course > be very silly in practice, but I'm talking in principle.) SPX will go into KA42s - although I don't know for sure whether it was ever sold and supported. It will probably plug into a VS2K but I have no idea whether it will work (or whether anything would run on it without more code being written). > So I thought that KA42 had one big CDAL-to-EDAL bridge > upfront and the rest of the system except memory was EDAL. > But I could be wrong, maybe different subsystems have their > own independent connections to CDAL. You are probably right - I just threw in "as necessary" because I don't have a KA42 block diagram handy (in fact, I may not have one at all - there is not much info floating around on these and the early UVAX 3100 systems). > But if KA42 indeed has one big CDAL-to-EDAL bridge upfront, > the million dollar question becomes: why did the VS4000 M90 > dev team toil to design their own CDAL-to-EDAL bridge (CEAC) > if there already was one? The only plausible explanation I > could come up with is that perhaps on KA42 the CDAL-to-EDAL > bridge was inseparably integrated with the memory controller. I don't know why they rolled their own. Given that they used or modified existing designs where possible, I assume that there were good reasons. Perhaps the existing design was too slow or took up too much room (this latter consideration was definitely very important for the -90). > BTW, I have never found any references to a technical manual > for VS3100 (any > model) or for the corresponding early MV3100 models. It looks > like one never existed. Do you have any more info? No - and I could never find any even while I was inside DEC. There must have been *some* such documentation but it was nowhere I could find. > Does KA43 have memory on CDAL or on RDAL? I once had one in > my hands and when I looked on the board to see what chips it There's not a lot of technical info on the KA43 either! > Yeah, maybe that was the change. (Was that a typo or was > EDAQL a chip converting EDAL to SPX's internal bus?) Typo. > >http://www.research.compaq.com/wrl/DECarchives/DTJ/DTJ402/DTJ402SC.TXT > >But it talks about the X aspects of it and says nothing about VXT2000 hardware. Yes, I've read that one and it's not the one. I was sure that there was an article describing the VXT2000 itself, but I guess since I cannot find it either on the web or in my docs, I must have imagined it. Oh well. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Sat Jan 18 06:08:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: Hobbled NVAX (was: VXT X terminal question) In-Reply-To: <0301180431.AA02468@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <000801c2beea$b57602f0$cb87fe3e@athlon> > I assume the NVAX microcode was patched via its PCS facility > by the boot firmware, not by making a different NVAX die with > different microcode I hope, right? If so the abomination is I assume so too. > to be reversed by reflashing the boot ROM with non-hobbled > firmware (stolen from a friend with a non-hobbled machine). > They had flash ROMs like all other NVAXen, right? I doubt that non-hobbled firmware exists. I doubt you could just use the UV3100-96 firmware upgrade on a UV3100-85 and have it work. In fact, I guess the firmware is the same but it looks at the machine's hardware (e.g. size and config of backup cache or something like that) to determine what it is running on, and disables the VIC if it thinks the machine is a UV3100-85. The easiest thing to do would be to try reenabling the VIC. If that is not enough, you would have to find the bit of code that disables the VIC and NOP it out. I doubt that the code was protected too much: it would have been way beyond most customers' ability to alter it. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From avickers at solutionengineers.com Sat Jan 18 06:53:03 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: PET 2001 oddity In-Reply-To: <20030118064134.90964.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030117180504.00b86e20@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030118122355.01a92eb0@slave> At 06:41 18/01/2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: >--- Adrian Vickers wrote: > > I dug the 2001 out of the cupboard the other day... > >Can you give more information about *which* 2001 you have? There >are at least two major motherboard revisions for the static-RAM PETs. >They use different ROMs and RAMs. OK, I can but try.... According to the sticker on the back, this is a 2001-8BS. The motherboard layout appears to be the same as the one pictured on www.zimmers.net on the 4k/8k layout. I've taken some photos of my motherboard, which can now be found here: http://helmies.org.uk/images/cbm2001/mobo_front.jpg http://helmies.org.uk/images/cbm2001/mobo_back.jpg http://helmies.org.uk/images/cbm2001/mobo_side.jpg NOTE: Each picture is approx 449K = long download over a modem! >Also, as I have one, there are also models of 2001 that have _dynamic_ >RAMs. My 2001-N has 32K worth of 4116 chips (from the factory) and a >full-sized graphic keyboard. If it were for sale in Europe, it would >most likely been labelled a 3032, for comparison, but here in the States, >it says "2001" on the front. > >I bring it up because I _think_ you are talking about the original >chicklet-keyboard SRAM PET, but you didn't come right out and say so. Apologies, I didn't; I keep forgetting that the 2001 went through more development than perhaps any of the other PETs. Yes, it is a chicklet keyboard version, with static RAM (2114's) and original 28-pin MOS ROMs. > > > Unfortunately, the PET seems to have developed an odd fault: It won't > > take a BASIC program, and some keywords seem to be knackered... >. >. >. > > So.... I figure the BASIC ROM has become slightly corrupted, OR I've got > > a flakey memory chip... > > > > 1) Can the BASIC ROM be swapped with one from, say, a 3032 or 4016? > >Most likely not. If your 2001 has 2114 SRAMs, perhaps. There are >upgrade ROMs (BASIC 2.0, anyway) _for_ the 2001 Personally, I'd rather keep this one as original as possible, i.e. keep the original (buggy) ROMs. However, if it means keeping it working, then I'm prepared to substitute the MOS ROMs with a board/set of boards containing more modern EPROMs wired appropriately containing the original images. Not that I've got a clue how to go about doing that, mind... > > In fact, which one IS the BASIC ROM? > >BASIC lives in several ROMs, the Kernel lives in several ROMs. BASICs >prior to 4.0 occupied $C000-$DFFF, and the Kernel occupied $E000-$FFFF, >minus the PIAs and VIAs, etc., at $E800. BASIC 4.0 starts at $B000 >to add room for diskette commands. > >In my PET, $9000, $A000 and $B000 are filled with user-supplied firmware >(better machine-language monitor, BASIC extensions and a tape speeder). >These sorts of things, plus ROMs for word processors and other applications >were somewhat typical amongst serious PET users. Dunno if yours has >anything like that, but if you find ROMs where you expect none to be, >that's probably why. Well, there are no unpolulated sockets, so perhaps it's a fair bet that there's some extra stuff in there. Goodness knows what, though, all the ROMs are MOS 6540's. > > 2) If it's a dodgy memory chip, what's the best way of isolating it? I > > have an oscilloscope, but nada skill in this sort of thing. > >The typical way of testing RAMs in a C= service center was to rotate >a pair of them from bank to bank and see if the symptoms shift. It >was especially handy for detecting zero page problems. Figures :( I've had to do this once already to locate a broken 2114 (when I got the machine, it claimed only 1600 bytes of memory were free). Luckily, I have one more spare 2114 (I got two from someone on this list, I forget who [for which I apologise] and thank them (again) profusely, as if it is a broken 2114, there's a chance the second spare might be essential). Anyway, if it *is* a failing RAM chip, my guess is it's the one which sits near the bottom of BASIC memory, since the first line number causes a crash. Does anyone have a map showing the correlation between memory addresses & specific chips? If it's on the schematics, I'll be looking there next (so no need to answer that question). Ta for that, all good info! Thus, the order of the day is: 1) Try to determine which 2114 chip might have gone bad, either by sequenced swapping or by trying to be clever with the schematics. 2) If that doesn't fix it, re-seat all ROMs. 3) If that doesn't fix it, go to plan C - which doesn't exist yet... Also, I know this has been asked & answered before, but what's the best way of cleaning the board? It has more dust on it than I am properly comfortable with, and besides it looks horrible. I'm guessing that *ideally* it should be washed in distilled water with a very soft brush, then left in a warm place to dry thoroughly. OTOH, maybe alcohol would be a better idea? I have some disc head cleaning alcohol which would suffice - recommendations please! >Good luck, Thanks - I'm going to need that (in place of specific skills :) >P.S. - if you don't know about http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/ it's a >great site with schematics and firmware. I already knew of it, but had forgotten how useful it might be. Will check that out next. Ta! -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From avickers at solutionengineers.com Sat Jan 18 06:54:33 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: PET 2001 oddity In-Reply-To: <10301181137.ZM24433@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030117180504.00b86e20@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030118124952.019d4418@slave> At 11:37 18/01/2003, you wrote: >On Jan 17, 18:18, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > > > Unfortunately, the PET seems to have developed an odd fault: It won't >take > > a BASIC program, and some keywords seem to be knackered... > > > So.... I figure the BASIC ROM has become slightly corrupted, OR I've got >a > > flakey memory chip which reads OK but doesn't write properly. The >question > > is, how to find out? > >Swap some of the RAM chips around and see if it makes a difference. If it >does, particularly if it fixes it, swap them back -- it might just be a bad >socket contact. Be careful with the RAM chips: if you have the type of PET >I think you do, they're MOS Technology 6550, aka unobtainium, and unlike >any other RAM chip. Hi Pete, It's not *quite* as bad as all that, it uses 2114's. Although they're not made of unobtainum, they ARE made of "rareium" (or R@RE!ium on eBay - probably the *WOW* *L@@K* isotope, knowing my luck :). > > 1) Can the BASIC ROM be swapped with one from, say, a 3032 or 4016? In > > fact, which one IS the BASIC ROM? > >No. BASIC (and also the rest of the code, whether you call it a kernel or >a monitor, or "stuff") is spread over several chips. Damn, I just *knew* it wouldn't be that easy. > And in the early >PETs, the ROMs too are MOS Technology specials, and the different versions >of PETs had different ROMs. AFAICT, these are version 1 ROMs. Every socket is filled, and they're all MOS6540s. >If it's got 28-pin MOS Technology MPS6540 ROMs, you'd need a carrier to >shuffle some signals, at the very least, and possibly some logic to handle >the multiple select lines. Harrumph. Guess which one it has... Still, I've no fear of making carriers, etc. - albeit time constraints & lack of equipment will make it tough right now - at least until I can get my MicroMAT going. >The good news, though, is that I have a >chicklet-keyboard 2001-N as well, and if necessary, I could probably do a >ROM dump for you (though IIRC it used to be on the 'net somewhere). I >wouldn't need to move more than a few hundreweight of stuff to get at it >;-) That might be cool (and *snap* about the tons of stuff, although having seen your little collection I think you do have rather more to shift about than me!). However, let me try out the RAM swapping & chip re-seating first, and if that doesn't fix it, then we'll look into EPROMs & suchlike. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From avickers at solutionengineers.com Sat Jan 18 07:25:01 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: PET 2001 oddity - solved! In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030118124952.019d4418@slave> References: <10301181137.ZM24433@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030117180504.00b86e20@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030118132338.019c43f8@slave> Woohoo! Turned out to be dead simple; yet another blown 2114. I figured the chip @ $0400 (i.e. the start of BASIC) was faulty, seeing as how the machine wouldn't take a single line of BASIC. So, I swapped the appropriate bank out to another bank - and presto! BASIC worked again. Having done this, I then swapped *one* of the two chips (according to the schematic, there are two chips for each $0400 block of memory - why is this?) back to its original spot, and presto again - no BASIC. Swapped that chip for the one remaining spare, and presto^3! BASIC again. So, now I need more 2114's as an insurance policy... Meanwhile, I thank the list *again* for their invaluable help (Ethan, Mike & Pete in particular in this case). What would I do without you (except preside over a collection of steadily failing machines)? -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From kendonchatz at yahoo.com Sat Jan 18 07:37:00 2003 From: kendonchatz at yahoo.com (Kenneth Donchatz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? Message-ID: <20030118134046.20983.qmail@web9305.mail.yahoo.com> I have a 13 year old apple macintosh that works like a dream. It's loaded with programs, and this great little machine got me through law school and helped me launch my career. When my employer switched over to a compaq system, I could no longer use this machine to work on projects at home and was forced to pick up an etower package instead. For the last 5 years, it's sat in my basement waiting. Everything works perfectly, including the printer, and all of the parts are original. Any tips on where I might take this machine so that it can be used? It's a shame to let it sit here and rot. Ken Donchatz kendonchatz@yahoo.com Columbus, Ohio --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030118/077906d0/attachment.html From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Jan 18 07:56:00 2003 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? In-Reply-To: <20030118134046.20983.qmail@web9305.mail.yahoo.com> from Kenneth Donchatz at "Jan 18, 3 05:40:46 am" Message-ID: <200301181409.GAA07514@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I have a 13 year old apple macintosh that works like a dream. Which model? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Of course I run NetBSD. ---------------------------------------------------- From P.Gebhardt at gmx.de Sat Jan 18 08:01:46 2003 From: P.Gebhardt at gmx.de (P.Gebhardt@gmx.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: Harddrive collectors References: <20030117200853.E57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <4202.1042898628@www4.gmx.net> Hallo Jochen, I'll watch out for specs of theses drives and tell you when I find something. If you want to get rid of your nec drives someday, mail to me !! ;) By the way, I still haven't found specs for my QD32. Is there anybody who has manuals for this controller ? Pierre > On 2003.01.16 18:43 P.Gebhardt@gmx.de wrote: > > > I'm a guy (20) from Germany > Jungspund. ;-) > > > and what I like is collecting old harddrives. > If you ever get specs for a: > Seagate "Elite" (ST41097j or ST41201j) > EquipNo PA4A2A > PartNo 70525902 > ItemNo 70896712 > _pease_ mail it to me. This drive is a 5.25" FH, 1 GB SMD disk that I > would like to get working on one of my VAXen. The 9" / 1 GB NEC drives > are nice, but draw a litle to much power (200 W). > -- > > > > tsch??, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ > -- +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++ NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr f?r 1 ct/ Min. surfen! From mbg at TheWorld.com Sat Jan 18 08:08:00 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: (no subject) References: <03c301c2bdea$ddbb1ee0$0100a8c0@primate> <200301170824.DAA109992946@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <200301181410.JAA109999249@shell.TheWorld.com> >something of value that the author deserves compensation. What about if >the author no-longer makes the thing I copied available, the author >apparently does not want compensation. Whether they have explicitly chosen not to make something available, or by lack of action have implicitly caused it not to be available, they still own the property and the rights to do with it as they please, at least until such time as the rights expire. And I have to say that I am entirely against the recent vote to increase the length of time of copyright. Megan From P.Gebhardt at gmx.de Sat Jan 18 08:10:28 2003 From: P.Gebhardt at gmx.de (Pierre Gebhardt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: Maxtor drive goes under References: Message-ID: <18473.1042899214@www45.gmx.net> Tony, do you have specs for these drives ? I have got a Micropolis 1222-I drive but there's nothing to find about it in the net. All I would like to know is the interface (SA1000?) and the voltages needed for the power connector. Pierre > I'm going to guess Micropolis. Those drives were absolutely crap. On the other hand, older Micropolis drives -- the 8" 1200 series, weren't too bad. I've had electronic failures on them, but they're mostly standard chips, and there's a handy diagnostic connector that you can connect a lights-n-switches box to to find out what the main problem is. Siad box is _very_ easy to make... THe only problem with the 1200 series is the servo power amplifier. It's an LM379 chip -- a dual 6W audio amplifier (now, what was somebody saying about no audio amplifier discussions here :-)). A standard part at the time, but just try finding one now. And this circuit uses a feature of the 379 -- namely that the bottom end of the output stages are brought out separately -- to monitor the servo coil current. About the best replacement is a pair of mono audio amplifier chips, I think. -tony -- +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++ NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr f?r 1 ct/ Min. surfen! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 897 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030118/881d8780/attachment.ksh From jrasite at eoni.com Sat Jan 18 09:10:01 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? References: <20030118134046.20983.qmail@web9305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E296F13.3030805@eoni.com> The music department of your local school. Windoze don't do music composition. Jim Kenneth Donchatz wrote: > I have a 13 year old apple macintosh that works like a dream. It's > loaded with programs, and this great little machine got me through law > school and helped me launch my career. When my employer switched over > to a compaq system, I could no longer use this machine to work on > projects at home and was forced to pick up an etower package instead. > For the last 5 years, it's sat in my basement waiting. Everything works > perfectly, including the printer, and all of the parts are original. > Any tips on where I might take this machine so that it can be used? It's > a shame to let it sit here and rot. --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus > - > Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now > From jcwren at jcwren.com Sat Jan 18 09:21:01 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? In-Reply-To: <3E296F13.3030805@eoni.com> Message-ID: <017001c2bf05$b96d6090$020010ac@k4jcw> Say WHAT? There are dozens of music programs for the PC, and some are good enough for studio production work (like Cakewalk and Pro Tools). Where'd you ever get that idea? --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Jim Arnott > Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 10:13 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? > > > The music department of your local school. Windoze don't do music > composition. > > Jim > > Kenneth Donchatz wrote: > > I have a 13 year old apple macintosh that works like a dream. It's > > loaded with programs, and this great little machine got me > through law > > school and helped me launch my career. When my employer > switched over > > to a compaq system, I could no longer use this machine to work on > > projects at home and was forced to pick up an etower > package instead. > > For the last 5 years, it's sat in my basement waiting. > Everything works > > perfectly, including the printer, and all of the parts are > original. > > Any tips on where I might take this machine so that it can > be used? It's > > a shame to let it sit here and rot. > --------------------------------- > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Mail Plus > > - > > Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now > > > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jan 18 09:31:01 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: PET 2001 oddity - solved! In-Reply-To: Adrian Vickers "PET 2001 oddity - solved!" (Jan 18, 13:28) References: <10301181137.ZM24433@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20030117180504.00b86e20@slave> <5.1.0.14.2.20030118132338.019c43f8@slave> Message-ID: <10301181534.ZM24709@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 18, 13:28, Adrian Vickers wrote: > Turned out to be dead simple; yet another blown 2114. > > I figured the chip @ $0400 (i.e. the start of BASIC) was faulty, seeing as > how the machine wouldn't take a single line of BASIC. So, I swapped the > appropriate bank out to another bank - and presto! BASIC worked again. Good! > Having done this, I then swapped *one* of the two chips (according to the > schematic, there are two chips for each $0400 block of memory - why is > this?) A 2114 is 1K x 4 bits wide, so they're used in pairs to make bytes. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jan 18 09:31:45 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: PET 2001 oddity In-Reply-To: Adrian Vickers "Re: PET 2001 oddity" (Jan 18, 12:55) References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030117180504.00b86e20@slave> <5.1.0.14.2.20030118124952.019d4418@slave> Message-ID: <10301181511.ZM24699@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Hi, Ade. On Jan 18, 12:55, Adrian Vickers wrote: > It's not *quite* as bad as all that, it uses 2114's. Although they're not > made of unobtainum, they ARE made of "rareium" (or R@RE!ium on eBay - > probably the *WOW* *L@@K* isotope, knowing my luck :). Good! If it *is* a RAM fault, and you can't find one at a reasonable price, let me know. I think I still have a small number spare. > AFAICT, these are version 1 ROMs. Every socket is filled, and they're all > MOS6540s. Drat. Let's hope it's not a ROM fault. Sadly, my copy of "The PET Revealed" with its mostly-legible (!) circuit diagrams, shows the later board with 2332s. But I do have a copy of the MPS6540 pinout somewhere. > Harrumph. Guess which one it has... > > Still, I've no fear of making carriers, etc. - albeit time constraints & > lack of equipment will make it tough right now - at least until I can get > my MicroMAT going. > > >The good news, though, is that I have a > >chicklet-keyboard 2001-N as well, and if necessary, I could probably do a > >ROM dump for you (though IIRC it used to be on the 'net somewhere). I > >wouldn't need to move more than a few hundreweight of stuff to get at it > >;-) > > That might be cool (and *snap* about the tons of stuff, although having > seen your little collection I think you do have rather more to shift about > than me!). However, let me try out the RAM swapping & chip re-seating > first, and if that doesn't fix it, then we'll look into EPROMs & suchlike. OK. Give me shout if you want me to start burrowing. Or come and pay a visit... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jan 18 09:32:28 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:40 2005 Subject: PET 2001 oddity In-Reply-To: Adrian Vickers "Re: PET 2001 oddity" (Jan 18, 12:49) References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030117180504.00b86e20@slave> <5.1.0.14.2.20030118122355.01a92eb0@slave> Message-ID: <10301181529.ZM24704@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 18, 12:49, Adrian Vickers wrote: > At 06:41 18/01/2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > >I bring it up because I _think_ you are talking about the original > >chicklet-keyboard SRAM PET, but you didn't come right out and say so. > > Apologies, I didn't; I keep forgetting that the 2001 went through more > development than perhaps any of the other PETs. Yes, it is a chicklet > keyboard version, with static RAM (2114's) and original 28-pin MOS ROMs. > Well, there are no unpolulated sockets, so perhaps it's a fair bet that > there's some extra stuff in there. Goodness knows what, though, all the > ROMs are MOS 6540's. Then there's no extras. The MOS Technology 6540 ROMs are half the capacity of the 2332s in later boards, so there are seven of them in a standard PET and no spare sockets. > Figures :( I've had to do this once already to locate a broken 2114 (when > I got the machine, it claimed only 1600 bytes of memory were free). > Luckily, I have one more spare 2114 (I got two from someone on this list, I > forget who [for which I apologise] and thank them (again) profusely, as if > it is a broken 2114, there's a chance the second spare might be essential). I think it was me (and I think you already said thankyou :-)) > Also, I know this has been asked & answered before, but what's the best way > of cleaning the board? It has more dust on it than I am properly > comfortable with, and besides it looks horrible. > > I'm guessing that *ideally* it should be washed in distilled water with a > very soft brush, then left in a warm place to dry thoroughly. OTOH, maybe > alcohol would be a better idea? I have some disc head cleaning alcohol > which would suffice - recommendations please! Start by vacuuming it with a powerful vacuum and a soft, small, paintbrush (about 1/2" - 1") to help disldge the dirt. You might not need to wash it after that. It's not too important for a board like this, but the air rushing through a plastic vacuum nozzle can generate a surprising amount of static, so ideally the nozzle should be conductive, and grounded. If you do wash it, use some detergent, do not get it too hot, rinse with distilled water and a *very small* amount of wetting agent (to help the water drain). Blowing off the excess with low-pressure compressed air and/or rinsing in IPA or meths (which mix with water and helps remove it) may also be a good idea. Do make sure you get all the water out of places like IC sockets, switches, and connectors, as residues may eventually lead to corrosion. In extreme cases, or where I've had a lot of boards to clean, I've used the dishwasher -- but do not let the dishwasher do the normal drying cycle as it's too hot for safety. Some dishwashers seem to use very hot water, too, and some types of PCB and some types of plastic don't like that. Don't use a dishwasher on boards that have non-sealed relays, transformers, paper labels, etc. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jan 18 09:39:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: Jules Richardson "Re: Update: BBC Acorn" (Jan 18, 10:23) References: <20030118102331.14204.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10301181542.ZM24716@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 18, 10:23, Jules Richardson wrote: > > Do either of you think you have a Disc 1 for it? > > no discs at all I'm afraid :-( hence why I was asking about whther there's a > sensible ftp site to put them on so if a working set can be collected at least > they can be archived somewhere (the same goes for manuals really, but scanning > those would be a major pain I expect!) Well, someone else has offered to copy Disc 1 for me. I've also found a few other people who have ARM Evaluation Systems, so once I get a good Disc 1, I'll put the set of six on my website (and if anyone from any of the Beeb sites wants to make a copy, that's fine by me). Any suggestions as to format to use for the images? I've also just been told that the production run of ARM (not ARM2) chips was 2000. I know some were used in-house for other types of development system (like the A500) and more were used for Springboard (an ISA card, the PC equivalent of the ARM Development System), so 50 or 100 seem likely numbers for the quantity of ARM Development Kits made to fit Beebs. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jan 18 10:04:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: (no subject) Enough already In-Reply-To: <3E28D5EA.5116.B3D49D0@localhost> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Lawrence Walker wrote: > On the other hand Doc's statement for Sellam to just > keep his mouth shut did come out of left field. I couldn't > make any sense out of the message other than it was an > objection to his comments on the extension of the Disney > Patent. I know some of us like Walt and Mickey, but > really, that was like an Eddie Murphy response to a > criticism of Stevie Wonder. It was an objection to the fact that there was no content to the original post, simply spew; and not a little because *I* am an "ex-Junkie", and spend a lot of time ignoring just such characterization. Add to that Sellam's consistent slander of Texas and Texans, ever since George Dubbya took office. I despise Bush, but I *am* a native Texan, and am proud of that. Sellam's comments to me, in private email, are even more culturally oriented. Maybe it's because I've taken shots at Texas because you guys produced the biggest idiot to ever run the country. It is not the first time on this list, and Texans have not been his only target for cultural slurs and epithets. As this is a decidedly multi-national and multi-cultural forum, it's always surprised me that the list-members in general put up with it. "Sellam Ismail" has a distinctly ethnic ring to it. The phrase "glass houses" comes to mind. Should I put myself on his level, and go there? Of course not! Mr Ismail enjoys a degree of respect on this list that he seems not to extend to anyone else. Further, the attitude about replying in private only is bullshit. "I'm going to insult you in public, but I *insist* that any embarassing consequences be kept private." Not happening. Having said all that, I'm done. I do wish that more of the members who privately indicated agreement would do so on-list. The one's that have, thank you. Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jan 18 10:06:01 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: Musings on BabyVAX video In-Reply-To: <000701c2beea$0d7dd410$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > I thought so too. But what about SPX? Can it go into a > > pre-M76 VS3100? And what about VS2K SPX? (It would of course > > be very silly in practice, but I'm talking in principle.) > > SPX will go into KA42s - although I don't know for sure whether > it was ever sold and supported. It will probably plug into a > VS2K but I have no idea whether it will work (or whether anything > would run on it without more code being written). I'll look when I get home (next month), but I'm pretty sure one of my VS3100 m38 machines was labelled SPX from the factory. Doc From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Jan 18 10:08:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: VXT X terminal question In-Reply-To: <000001c2be81$9bbe6500$cb87fe3e@athlon> References: <20030117235607.O57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <000001c2be81$9bbe6500$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: <20030118142103.GB840@ickis.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, Jan 17, 2003 at 11:38:58PM -0000, Antonio Carlini wrote: > Obviously you have to have a Qbus extension cable and some way > of connecting it - the easiest way is a VAX 4000-1xx cab :-) Well, the enclosure is the same. It is only a set of additional connectors on the back an internal cabling. At least I interpreted pictures of a VAX4k105 this way. But all I need is the pinout. Building some cables is no problem and I have a QBus backplane from a dead and rotten BA23. > > Sad that I have not the QBus cabling for my MV3100m95. A 83 > > MHz NVAX (32 VUPs?) desktop VAX wirh QBus would be nice. > It would indeed. The VAX 4000-1xx range is something that > I only rarely got to play on. But there are plenty of > other Qbus boxes around. I have a MV II, MV III, MV3900, MV4k200, VAX4k300, VAX4k400 and a PDP11-73. Enough QBus boxen to play. OK. I miss a KA640 based machine. But none of them brings that power in that small footprint and is easy to interface to lots of storage, i.e. SCSI. -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Jan 18 10:08:42 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: VXT X terminal question In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C904@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C904@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <20030118112924.GA840@ickis.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Sat, Jan 18, 2003 at 10:50:58AM +0100, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > I have the Ultrix V4.50 source tree [no comment] and will be porting it to > the M76, *and* (which is my target) my beloved 4000-700A. Someone on the PUPS / TUHS list has ported 4.3BSD-Tahoe and / or 4.3BSD-Reno to the VAX4000-7xx. AFAIK he had some porblems with interrupts at autoconfig time, but got it running. -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Jan 18 10:12:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: BBC Micro - assemblers - info needed Message-ID: <01ac01c2bf0c$fb942ce0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Hi all, I've just downloaded three assemblers from the ROM archive at http://bbc.nvg.org . Catch is, none of them include manuals. I've got copies of: VASM65 v2.0E by Vida Rebus ASM 1.10 by SYSTEM (claims to be the "ASM 6502 Macro assembler V1.10", "Copyright (C) 1984 SYSTEM"). Contains text strings like "Press play", so may be a tape->ROM conversion. ROMAS 3.02 by TBK Associates (full copyright string = "ROMAS 3.02 (C)1985 TBK Associates - S.C." Has anyone here got any documentation for these assemblers? I'd like to get at least one of them to assemble *something*. Perhaps a "Hello World" program? Also, Vasm outputs Intel Hex files from what I can gather - does anyone here have an Intel Hex -> Binary converter for the BBC Micro? Finally, does anyone know how some discs were formatted so they were compatible with 40-track and 80-track disc drives? Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From pcw at mesanet.com Sat Jan 18 11:04:00 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: Musings on BabyVAX video In-Reply-To: <000701c2beea$0d7dd410$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > I thought so too. But what about SPX? Can it go into a > > pre-M76 VS3100? And what about VS2K SPX? (It would of course > > be very silly in practice, but I'm talking in principle.) > > SPX will go into KA42s - although I don't know for sure whether > it was ever sold and supported. It will probably plug into a > VS2K but I have no idea whether it will work (or whether anything > would run on it without more code being written). I have a few VT1300's with SPX badges and SPX cards inside, so at least the Xterm verison of the KA42/SPX seems to have been supported... Peter Wallace From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 18 11:22:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: IBM 5322 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > The System 23 I briefly worked on (as in 'got inside') had a DE9 > connector for the printer IIRC. It was a _current loop_ serial port, and > of course the character set is EBCDIC (but as you say, that's a minor > problem). I was wondering what that connector was. Now I know :) > I think (based on the current loop on the PC Async card) that IBM's > convention was that transmiters were active and non-isolated, receivers > were passive and opto-isolated, but do check this before hooking > anything up. Cool, after the punch card project I actually know what you're talking about ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 18 11:29:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #391 - 45 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030118034120.66072.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, Al Hartman wrote: > The problem with this is that you are totally ignoring > the owners rights in this. > > You are treating a program like physical property when > it isn't. It is Intellectual Property. > > If you do not purchase a license from the author to > use his work, you are not entitled to own it. > > Whether you have made a copy so that nobody else is > deprived of their copy is immaterial. > > Something is lost by him/her. His/her rights to > control the distribution of his/her work. > > If you don't want to buy it, then you shouldn't have > it. Ok, here's a scenario. What if I find a small stack of original audio CDs? They were up for grabs in a "FREE" box at the ACCRC. I took them. Since I didn't pay for them, should I not have them? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 18 11:34:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: (no subject) Enough already In-Reply-To: <20030117.233129.-67137.0.loedman1@juno.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Jan 2003 loedman1@juno.com wrote: > Might I suggest that you go and start your own list where you can > belittle and insult your own members and leave the uninformed political > statements and personal attacks off of this one. Yes, it's called CCTECH. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 18 11:42:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <004201c2beca$19f78bc0$513bcd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > Often it simply isn't worth it to build upon something unless you enjoy > exclusive rights. The restoration of old films is a good example. The > studios that hold copyrights to old pictures spend huge amounts of money > to restore the prints for issue in DVD format precisely because they > hold exclusive rights and can make back what they spend. In the case of > public domain films, this simply doesn't happen. As a result, you cannot > obtain a decent quality copy of most public domain films because no one > is willing to spend money on remastering when the public domain > distributors are selling the film for $6.99 or less a pop. If you want > an example, go on Amazon and read the DVD reviews for "Royal Wedding" a > 1951 Fred Astaire/Jane Powell film that went public domain in 1979 when > MGM neglected to renew the copyright. I disagree. I am certain there are many people who would prefer to pay more for a higher quality edition of the same movie. I know I would. And in fact, a concrete example would be VHS vs. DVD. DVD's cost more than VHS tapes with the same content. Of course you get a little more content with the DVD, but that's part of the premium. So I wholly disagree with the MPAA's argument that copyrighted works would suffer if they fell into the public domain, as I heard the other day on the radio. Look at us: we're a bunch of stupid hobbyists holding on to old computers. Not only that, we clean them up, fix them up, keep the software running, make archival copies of it, scan in old documentation, spending countless hours and dollars on it. And for what? Because we appreciate them. The same could/would go for any creative work that falls into the public domain. Unless it's complete crap (and deserves to die) someone with a passion for it will keep it alive, and do a good job of it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 18 11:42:52 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <004301c2becb$c9ba6630$513bcd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > Hey, let's get Michael Nadeau to help us test the Captain's theory. With > his permission, we'll scan his entire Collectibel Microcomputers book > into a pdf file and post it all over the internet. Michael, you don't > need to worry about this because your sales are going to skyrocket just > as soon as the book is made available to everyone for free!!! This is a bad example because old computer collectors are notorious for being cheap ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dholland at woh.rr.com Sat Jan 18 11:59:00 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1042913239.31345.14.camel@crusader> Wot about SGI Crimson's? (Or in my case, a Power Series frame, w/ Crimson boards in it) Or are they too new (and LARGE :-) ) for the list? (Now for the possibly Off List questions of my post) I'd like to get hold of a Reality Engine for it as mine (alas) only has a VGXT boardset. Anyone know where I could find one? I'd also be interested if anyone has interfaced a Sun Type 5 mouse to it, as they look like they use the same protocol, just one is +5v logic, the other is RS232? (Maxim's MAX232's sound vaguely useful, but they're hard to find around here in 1sie 2sie counts) (The optical mouse I have for it is in too bad a shape to be really usable anymore - the felts shot, and it sticks to the metal plate/mouse pad too much for my tastes.) The whole thing that torque's me off the worst about it is.. its 3x's bigger than my PC, and its 3x's quieter... :) Anyways, If I'm off list focus, someone point it out to me, and I'll hush, and wait for the Apple II stuff to respond too.. :-) David On Fri, 2003-01-17 at 23:19, Brian Chase wrote: > On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > It's not just on a system like that. Earlier this week I got my first SGI > > system, a nice little O2. It's about the crappiest of the O2's, but it's > > still a *very* nice UNIX workstation. I thought that it was doing OK at > > surfing until yesterday when I wanted to check something on gamespot, it > > absolutly crawled to a halt trying to render the pages (well the browser > > did, the rest of the system was nice and responsive). I swear it took close > > to 10 minutes to get to the third page (the one that had the data I was > > curious about). > > > > I think I'll now run the browser on my Linux box and retarget it to the > > SGI's desktop (at least until I get an Octane). > > I'll wait to get an Onyx. Actually, the Origin 2000s are quite lovely, > too. They're still really off topic for this list. > > -brian. > From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jan 18 12:36:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: "Piracy" (was: Unauthorized copying In-Reply-To: <004401c2becb$ff87e5d0$513bcd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > Unauthorized copying is, under some (but not all) > > cirucumstances, illegal and/or unethical, but it is NOT > > theft. It is a different sort of offsense. > I believe that the commonly applied term is "piracy." It is commonly believed that the very first time that unauthorized copying of software was called "PIRACY" was the open letter by Bill Gates. Does anybody have an earlier referrent? From MTPro at aol.com Sat Jan 18 12:47:00 2003 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: Bad behavior and bad language on list . . . Message-ID: <114.1db775eb.2b5afbd3@aol.com> > Add to that Sellam's consistent slander of Texas and > Texans, ever since George Dubbya took office.? I despise Bush, but I > *am* a native Texan, and am proud of that.? Sellam's comments to me, in > private email, are even more culturally oriented. > > ? It is not the first time on this list, and Texans have not been his > only target for cultural slurs and epithets.? As this is a decidedly > multi-national and multi-cultural forum, it's always surprised me that > the list-members in general put up with it. > Hello everyone, I don't know Doc, at least I'm not sure. Many of us have never met others in person. I have however met Sellam, and I've corresponded with him many time over the years. Sellam, you've always been very nice and professional to me online and also when we met at the First East Coast Vintage Computer Festival. But, I feel a need to say that your language and personal attacks to people on list has really gotten out of hand. Doc, you did yourself no favors the moment you also used the "F" word in response. There have of course, also been some others here exhibiting bad language, etc., in the past. For anyone who doesn't know, when someone attacks a person personally, instead of attacking their viewpoint, this is called an Ad Hominem attack - ad hom?i?nem adj. Appealing to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason: Debaters should avoid ad hominem arguments that question their opponents' motives. Whether you are attacking their race, place of birth, religion, sex, or yes, even choice of ISP. If everyone will excuse me a moment, my politics are simple on social behavior - I don't care what any consenting adults do in private, but keep it private. You can engage in gay or "normal" sex, do drugs, curse your head off, who cares. Keep it private and between adults only. This forum is public, and there are probably some minors who subscribe or peruse the archives later. You have a social responsibility to keep any and all antisocial, uncivil behavior off-line. All of this out-of-line behavior that has been allowed to carry on this list is out of control regularly now. I voted for and overall like President Bush. Sellam, Doc . . . oh, am I a big jerk or stupid now?! But of course, this has nothing to do with our hobby and needn't ever have been revealed here. It's immature and frankly unrealistic to think that your little "swipe" or "joke" in regard to politics is amusing to everyone. Or, even that it impresses anyone. None of us are here to listen to anyone's political agenda. Or their viewpoint on business ethics and copyright law, etc. Unless these concepts are discussed in regard to a historical, classic computer system(s) or related. Is anyone in charge here? Is there any policing of list etiquette? Even just internal by other members? Are there more of you out there like me? Is everyone happy with this stuff?! I'm very tired of it. I may not "discuss" much on here, but I read every one and I'm just as much a "member" here. Can we please have discussion on topic, and behavior that does not insult or offend anyone?! It's really not that hard, it just takes some discipline. Simply treat any other person the way you want to be treated - with respect I imagine. There, I finally did it, posted for all to see. This is ridiculous the behavior that goes on here. Civil behavior is all that we have to keep the foundation of our culture "civilized." All the other stuff becomes secondary. Regards to everyone on list, David David Greelish Classic Computing www.classiccomputing.com "classiccomputing" on eBay > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030118/8d7d2054/attachment.html From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sat Jan 18 13:10:01 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: Hobbled NVAX Message-ID: <0301181913.AA03426@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Antonio Carlini wrote: > I doubt that non-hobbled firmware exists. I doubt you > could just use the UV3100-96 firmware upgrade on a > UV3100-85 and have it work. In fact, I guess the firmware > is the same but it looks at the machine's hardware (e.g. > size and config of backup cache or something like that) > to determine what it is running on, and disables the VIC > if it thinks the machine is a UV3100-85. Umm, I don't think so. It looks like the firmware is the only difference between M85 and the equivalent M9x model and the hardware is the same. In this case flashing M9x firmware would obviously give you the M9x model. But even if the M85 board was really different in B-cache or something from all M9x models, I doubt that the firmware could detect this by "looking at the hardware". AFAIK it's the firmware that has to tell the chips how the board is configured, not the other way around. If indeed the hobbled and non-hobbled firmware are the same code, what it looks at to make the decision is most probably a flag in the second longword of the ROM. > The easiest thing to do would be to try reenabling the VIC. > If that is not enough, you would have to find the bit of code > that disables the VIC and NOP it out. Well, if it munges the microcode I would go for option 2 in any case. BTW, do you know for sure that it really munges the microcode and not just disables the VIC in the same way normal caches from CVAX onward can be enabled and disabled as you like? MS From knight.beat at ntlworld.com Sat Jan 18 13:16:00 2003 From: knight.beat at ntlworld.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: New classic References: <001b01c2bcb7$e30221c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <000401c2bf26$afa5b410$0e03a8c0@prime> http://c64upgra.de/c-one/s_pictures.htm First pictures of the CommodoreOne pre-production board are now online: ""the pictures section has been extended by 11 pictures of the pre-production board. Basic testing has already been done, all chips are responding positively to diagnostic access. A 100% test procedure will be developed this weekend." -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide | Team *AMIGA* member http://amiga.emugaming.com | http://www.amigau.com/aig/index.html From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sat Jan 18 13:25:00 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: VXT X terminal question Message-ID: <0301181928.AA03458@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Ugh. Make that V4.20, obviously. Development is done on my V4.5 box.. > > Shitty thing is, that I probably will also have to run a 4.2 system as > a second-step system for bootstrapping, and I dont have a 4.2/vax tk50 > or cd set. Why can't you compile and use the V4.20 kernel on your V4.50 system? BTW, have you tried booting VXT on different VS3100s? I would really like to use a KA43 for my own VXT if possible, but I need to know if it is or not. MS From spc at conman.org Sat Jan 18 14:15:01 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <004301c2becb$c9ba6630$513bcd18@D73KSM11> from "Wayne M. Smith" at Jan 18, 2003 12:29:53 AM Message-ID: <200301182017.PAA05243@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Wayne M. Smith once stated: > > > It was thus said that the Great Dan Wright once stated: > > > > > > > WRONG! If it has value to you, then pay for it. > > > > > > The problem is that the "theft" argument assumes that EVERY > > copy = 1 > > > lost sale. This argument is total bullshit. Most people who copy > > > music/movies/whatever wouldn't have bought it if they couldn't copy > > > it, so no (or at best, very few -- FAR fewer then the > > number of copies > > > that are made) actual SALES are lost. (If you don't > > believe me, there > > > has been a lot of statistical research done that shows > > this; about the > > > only contradiction comes from the RIAA's highly dubious > > closed-books > > > "research". Sorry I don't have any sources at hand, but > > it's easy to find them on the WWW.) > > Hey, let's get Michael Nadeau to help us test the Captain's theory. > With his permission, we'll scan his entire Collectibel Microcomputers > book into a pdf file and post it all over the internet. Michael, you > don't need to worry about this because your sales are going to skyrocket > just as soon as the book is made available to everyone for free!!! More about giving away free copies: http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,57152,00.html "I don't believe that I am giving up book royalties," Doctorow said about persuading his publisher, Tor Books, to let him make Down and Out available digitally for free under the new Creative Commons licensing system. "(Downloads) crossed the 10,000-download threshold at 8 a.m. this morning," Doctorow said Thursday, "which exceeds the initial print run for the book." Doctorow said he thinks the marketing buzz from those downloads will be worth more than any lost book sales. "I think that the Internet's marvelous ability to spread information to places where it finds a receptive home is the best thing that could happen to a new writer like me." _Down and Out_ may be watched closely as a test of whether the Creative Commons license actually helps or hurts writers, but Tor senior editor Patrick Nielsen Hayden said the value of free online publishing has already been demonstrated. "Cory's experiment seems as worth trying as any number of things I've seen done," Hayden said. "What we're learning about online free distribution of fiction e-texts is that it doesn't hurt the sale of print editions and may even help it. I know plenty of people who've sampled fiction in e-text form, found they liked the taste, and bought a printed book as a result." Science fiction and fantasy publisher Jim Baen, whose Baen Books has offered a free library of selected works since 1998, says free downloads have boosted book sales. http://scalzi.com/w030103.htm So, there's been a slight change of plans. As you may remember (surely 2002 isn't too hazy yet), I serialized my most recent science fiction novel, Old Man's War, here in December, and this month I was going to put it up as shareware, a la Agent to the Stars. Well, I won't be doing that. The reason for this is that, well, I kind of sold it. Instead of being available as shareware, Old Man's War will be available either later this year or early next year in a hardcover edition from Tor Books, publishers of (among others) Orson Scott Card, Robert Jordan, Steven Brust and Teddy Roosevelt. Yes, really, Teddy Roosevelt. It's a reissue, I think, not one of those L. Ron Hubbard-eqsue "dictating from beyond the grave" situations. -spc (It certainly makes one think ... ) From spc at conman.org Sat Jan 18 14:21:00 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: Intellectual "PROPERTY" In-Reply-To: <3E28CE90.25603.B20901A@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Jan 18, 2003 03:48:32 AM Message-ID: <200301182024.PAA05343@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Lawrence Walker once stated: > > Reading classiccmp today I wanted to puke. I'm sorry, > I'm with Stallman, fuck the corporate spin-doctors. > > In the real world ideas are free and even Bob Dylan was > noted for his free use of others material. "Intellectual > PROPERTY" ? That's a lawyer's and corporate term. In discussion with another person on this very subject, he (the other person) wanted to know what the justification was to call it "intellectual property." He claimed that the law didn't call it such; if he's right or wrong I do not know, but he did mention Article 1, section 8, clause 7 of the Constitution: To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries; Or in other words, a monopoly on their works. I responded that perhaps instead of calling it "intellectual property" it might better be called "intellectual monopoly." -spc (Which it really is ... ) From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sat Jan 18 14:29:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: SGI Discussions? In-Reply-To: <1042913239.31345.14.camel@crusader> Message-ID: On 18 Jan 2003, David Holland wrote: > Wot about SGI Crimson's? (Or in my case, a Power Series frame, w/ > Crimson boards in it) Or are they too new (and LARGE :-) ) for the > list? Pfft! You call that large!? There are plenty of folks on this list who'd mock the relatively dainty size of the SGI Power Series frames. There are people on the list with IBM mainframes, PDP-10s, big VAXen, and a few Crays. > (Now for the possibly Off List questions of my post) > > I'd like to get hold of a Reality Engine for it as mine (alas) only has > a VGXT boardset. Anyone know where I could find one? > > I'd also be interested if anyone has interfaced a Sun Type 5 mouse to > it, as they look like they use the same protocol, just one is +5v logic, > the other is RS232? (Maxim's MAX232's sound vaguely useful, but they're > hard to find around here in 1sie 2sie counts) > > (The optical mouse I have for it is in too bad a shape to be really > usable anymore - the felts shot, and it sticks to the metal plate/mouse > pad too much for my tastes.) I'll see if we have any spare older mice. I know at least with the Indy and Indigo2s onward they all used regular PS/2 mice. I'm not sure about the Onyx systems, or the gear predating the mid-1990s time frame. My introduction to SGI equipment came around 1994 or so. About a year ago my employer returned several pallets worth of Indigo2s and Indys (~80-100 systems) to SGI for trade ins on Octane2s. It took about 6 months for SGI to even bother to come and pick them up. I've a feeling they all ended up being dumpstered once they got back to SGI. Saving them was out of the question as a list of serial numbers had been given to SGI; because they were trade ins, they actually had to be traded in. It's too bad. On another note, perhaps more related to the list, the new building that the Computer History Museum is moving into is actually the old SGI headquarters on Shoreline Dr. in Mountain View. It's a lovely building; I can't wait until they get things prettied up and moved into the new location. -brian. From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Jan 18 14:38:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <004201c2beca$19f78bc0$513bcd18@D73KSM11> References: <004201c2beca$19f78bc0$513bcd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <32863.64.169.63.74.1042922493.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Wayne M. Smith wrote: > Often it simply isn't worth it to build upon something unless you enjoy > exclusive rights. The restoration of old films is a good example. The > studios that hold copyrights to old pictures spend huge amounts of money > to restore the prints for issue in DVD format precisely because they > hold exclusive rights and can make back what they spend. In the case of > public domain films, this simply doesn't happen. Demonstrably false. UCLA has restored many films that the studios weren't willing to spend a penny on; some still in copyright but most expired. In general they've done a much better restoration job than the studios usually do. From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Jan 18 14:41:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: Unauthorized copying In-Reply-To: <004401c2becb$ff87e5d0$513bcd18@D73KSM11> References: <2517.4.20.168.156.1042834694.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <004401c2becb$ff87e5d0$513bcd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <32866.64.169.63.74.1042922687.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> I wrote: >> Unauthorized copying is, under some (but not all) >> cirucumstances, illegal and/or unethical, but it is NOT >> theft. It is a different sort of offsense. Wayne M. Smith wrote: > I believe that the commonly applied term is "piracy." Which term I refuse to use, because it isn't any more "piracy" than it is "theft". Copyright infringement is an entirely separate class of offense, both ethically and legally. In fact, the legal remedies for copyright infringement are substantially more severe than those for theft of physical objects. I'd love to hear a good explanation of why that should be. From arcarlini at iee.org Sat Jan 18 14:48:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: VXT X terminal question In-Reply-To: <20030118142103.GB840@ickis.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <000301c2bf33$674f4200$cb87fe3e@athlon> > Well, the enclosure is the same. It is only a set of additional > connectors on the back an internal cabling. At least I interpreted > pictures of a VAX4k105 this way. But all I need is the pinout. > Building some cables is no problem and I have a QBus backplane > from a dead and rotten BA23. I have a UV3100-90 and I've been close to a VAX 4000-100 (it just wasn't mine). The VAX 4000-100 enclosure has a distinctive sloping part at the back which houses the Qbus (and DSSI?) connectors. I didn't get to look closely enough to see whether this housing is an add-on to the UV3100-90 enclosure or the whole case is a manufacturing modification of that enclosure. Either way, the standard shipping UV3100-90 enclosure does not have anywhere for Qbus and DSSI connectors. I'll look for pinouts if I can dig up the right docs. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From cb at mythtech.net Sat Jan 18 14:59:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: "Piracy" (was: Unauthorized copying Message-ID: >It is commonly believed that the very first time that unauthorized copying >of software was called "PIRACY" was the open letter by Bill Gates. > >Does anybody have an earlier referrent? When was that letter? I remember using the term back when I traded software with friends on the Apple II. So probably early 80's. I'm not sure where I heard it first, but I suspect from one of the people I used to trade with (who probably got it from a BBS or elsewhere). I seem to even recall a duplication program that I used to use that was quite good at getting around copy protection, was called something like "The Pirates Friend". I'd have to go thru old software floppies to locate it and confirm the name, but I do think it used pirate in the name. -chris From red at bears.org Sat Jan 18 15:02:01 2003 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: Musings on BabyVAX video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Doc Shipley wrote: > I'll look when I get home (next month), but I'm pretty sure one of my > VS3100 m38 machines was labelled SPX from the factory. I just hauled home an m38 that had... an SPX installed. Right after I bought an SPX card for my m76, to replace the GPX in it. The two SPX cards are identical in every way (except possibly dustiness). ok r. From red at bears.org Sat Jan 18 15:05:01 2003 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? In-Reply-To: <1042913239.31345.14.camel@crusader> References: <1042913239.31345.14.camel@crusader> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, David Holland wrote: > (The optical mouse I have for it is in too bad a shape to be really > usable anymore - the felts shot, and it sticks to the metal plate/mouse > pad too much for my tastes.) Uh.. Or you could go spend $1 on some felt and glue at the craft store, and fix it. ok r. From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Jan 18 15:08:45 2003 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: Got the second batch of -11 equipment Message-ID: <20030118211117.GH19028@mrbill.net> Unfortunately, the actual "machine" (the guy didnt know that the MINC-11 was a system as well) is just an 11/23 with some RL01s. Pictures: http://www.pdp11.org/minc/01-18-03/ I have no idea if the RL01 disk packs are any good, but I've got one DEC-labled RT-11 v4.0, and one hand-labeled RT-11 v4.0C "patched to level F". The top RL01 is missing the hinged cover. Anybody want two RL02s (by the way, how the hell do I get the top covers open? The "switch" on the top wont budge), and two RL01s? Pickup in Austin, Texas.. Not a bad haul for a total of $30, even if I do just keep the 11/23 and the MINC-11 and the racks. Bill -- bill bradford mrbill@mrbill.net austin, texas From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Jan 18 15:11:01 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: VXT X terminal question Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C90D@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> All, Although I have both the M38 and M76 set up, I cant get the video part to work - tube (that is on a VXT2000 right now) doesn't seem to sync on either model. The M38 is standard, the M76 is the SPX model. Anyone have a clue? --fred From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jan 18 15:14:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <32863.64.169.63.74.1042922493.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > Demonstrably false. UCLA has restored many films that the studios > weren't willing to spend a penny on; some still in copyright but most > expired. In general they've done a much better restoration job than > the studios usually do. BV Engineering V UCLA UCLA bought one copy of a computer program, and then mass duplicated it. BV Engineering argued that UCLA must purchase copies instead of duplicating. UCLA said that because they are guvmint, the copyright law doesn't apply to them, and that because they are STATE guvmint, that they are intrinsically exempt from being sued in FEDERAL court for copyright infringement. UC (and particularly UCLA) has a history of refusal tocomply with copyright laws. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jan 18 15:17:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: "Piracy" (was: Unauthorized copying In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >It is commonly believed that the very first time that unauthorized copying > >of software was called "PIRACY" was the open letter by Bill Gates. > >Does anybody have an earlier referrent? On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, chris wrote: > When was that letter? mid 70s > I remember using the term back when I traded software with friends on the > Apple II. So probably early 80's. I'm not sure where I heard it first, > but I suspect from one of the people I used to trade with (who probably > got it from a BBS or elsewhere). > I seem to even recall a duplication program that I used to use that was > quite good at getting around copy protection, was called something like > "The Pirates Friend". I'd have to go thru old software floppies to locate > it and confirm the name, but I do think it used pirate in the name. All well after Bill Gates "originated" the term. Even so, we must all do whatever is necessary to make Bill Gates into a millionaire. From cb at mythtech.net Sat Jan 18 15:20:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: Apple 1 schematics Message-ID: In reading my copy of Collectible Microcomputers (yes yes, you all get it by now, I like the book... ok, I'll stop refering to it after this)... I noticed in the Apple Computer section a mention of how Apple's first customers were the folks that got schematics for the Apple 1 when it was first shown at Home Brew. Although I already knew that they alledgedly gave out schematics... I began to wonder A: did they really (probably) and B: do any copies exist anywhere? I thought it might be a fun project to try an build an Apple 1 from the schematics... just as the first users probably did. So, does anyone know if they are available, or does anyone have a copy and might want to send me a set? Or are copies just as elusive as the Apple 1 itself and there is no shot in ever getting them. -chris From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Jan 18 15:22:12 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: VXT X terminal question Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C90E@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Jochen writes: > Someone on the PUPS / TUHS list has ported 4.3BSD-Tahoe and / or > 4.3BSD-Reno to the VAX4000-7xx. AFAIK he had some porblems with > interrupts at autoconfig time, but got it running. Heh. This is not too hard, but *only* if he used the machine with a KFQSA (DSSI-to-MSCP) controller, rather than the onboard SHAC. It'd be a start, though. Michael, was this you? --fred From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sat Jan 18 15:41:01 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: VXT X terminal question Message-ID: <0301182144.AA03643@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > Someone on the PUPS / TUHS list has ported 4.3BSD-Tahoe and / or > > 4.3BSD-Reno to the VAX4000-7xx. AFAIK he had some porblems with > > interrupts at autoconfig time, but got it running. > Heh. This is not too hard, but *only* if he used the machine with > a KFQSA (DSSI-to-MSCP) controller, rather than the onboard SHAC. > > It'd be a start, though. Michael, was this you? Not me. My 4.3BSD suffix is Quasijarus, not Tahoe or Reno. But my opinion on SHAC is radically different from yours. SHAC is a darling beauty. It is a problem only for cheap OSes like NutBSD and Linsux. Since SHAC is a true CI host adapter with the true Generic VAX Port (GVP) it is perfectly supported by the SCA CI port driver present in every proper VAX OS with SCA such as Ultrix. Although DEC killed VAX Ultrix before MicroVAXen with SHAC came about, source examination shows that the Ultrix V4.20 CI port driver supports SHAC (on XMI). Some day I will lift the SCA code wholesale from Ultrix and plop it into 4.3BSD-Quasijarus. MS From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Jan 18 15:55:30 2003 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: Got the second batch of -11 equipment In-Reply-To: <20030118211117.GH19028@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <04D857B2-2B30-11D7-B3F1-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Saturday, January 18, 2003, at 04:11 PM, Bill Bradford wrote: > Anybody want two RL02s (by the way, how the hell do I get the top > covers > open? The "switch" on the top wont budge), and two RL01s? Pickup in > Austin, Texas.. The top door latch on an RL drive is locked by a solenoid. Apply power to the drive, make sure the "load" button is out, wait for a "click" (the load light will come on) then you should be able to squeeze that little slide handle and open the top cover. I would really like to have the RL02s but I have no idea how I'd get them from you. :-( -Dave -- Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Jan 18 16:06:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <32863.64.169.63.74.1042922493.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <33445.64.169.63.74.1042927735.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Fred Cisin wrote: > UC (and particularly UCLA) has a history of refusal tocomply with > copyright laws. Interesting, but AFAIK their film archives don't do that. From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Jan 18 16:11:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: Apple 1 schematics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33447.64.169.63.74.1042928036.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> chris asks about Apple I schematics. > Although I already knew that they alledgedly gave out schematics... I > began to wonder A: did they really (probably) and B: do any copies exist > anywhere? A: Yes. B: Google is your friend. > I thought it might be a fun project to try an build an Apple 1 from the > schematics... It's *extremely* difficult to find some of the Apple I parts, which have been out of production for over years. Particularly the seven 1024-bit MOS shift registers, and one hex-40-bit MOS shift register. > just as the first users probably did. Not quite, since they had a PCB. (Unless you plan to lay out a PCB yourself.) From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sat Jan 18 16:14:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: Got the second batch of -11 equipment References: <20030118211117.GH19028@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3E29D233.6010600@gifford.co.uk> Bill Bradford wrote: > Anybody want two RL02s (by the way, how the hell do I get the top covers > open? The "switch" on the top wont budge), and two RL01s? If the RL02s are like the RL01, there's a little metal panel on the side, near the "switch". Unscrew that, and you should see the solenoid interlock mechanism. Fiddle with that, and the "switch" should open the top cover. You'll need to lock the heads down if you're going to ship the drives. There's a little metal flap below the head carriage, visible with the top cover open and no pack in the drive. A single screw holds it in the "open" position. Loosen the screw, turn the flap 90 degrees, then tighten the screw. The flap is now in front of the head carriage, preventing it from moving. > Pickup in Austin, Texas.. I know someone here in Bristol who'd take the RL02s, if they weren't so far away. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sat Jan 18 16:17:01 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: Apple 1 schematics References: Message-ID: <3E29D2F6.4000809@gifford.co.uk> chris wrote: > Although I already knew that they alledgedly gave out schematics... I > began to wonder A: did they really (probably) and B: do any copies exist > anywhere? Parts of the Apple I schematics are shown in the second edition of "Fire In The Valley". Not enought to build a complete replica, though. You can see, however, that there's an option for installing either a 6502 CPU or a 6800. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jan 18 16:20:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: APOLOGY: Re: "Piracy" (was: Unauthorized copying In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Interestingly, the "Bill Gates Open Letter to Hobbyists", that is often cited as being the origin of the word "piracy" being applied to software, turns out to NOT use the word "piracy". It always helps to check citations before relying on them. Someday, I'll learn to do so. On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > >It is commonly believed that the very first time that unauthorized copying > > >of software was called "PIRACY" was the open letter by Bill Gates. > > >Does anybody have an earlier referrent? > > When was that letter? Feb 1976 From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Jan 18 16:27:01 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: VXT X terminal question [VR219 blues] Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FE00@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> I wrote: > Although I have both the M38 and M76 set up, I cant get the video > part to work - tube (that is on a VXT2000 right now) doesn't seem > to sync on either model. The M38 is standard, the M76 is the SPX > model. Anyone have a clue? Hmm. OK... I used the monitor (VR320) that was connected to my VXT2000, and that seems to be a GPX tube. I dragged a (heavy !) VR219-D3 monitor out of storage, and connected that. No go, either, _and_ it wont sync either. Looks like that one is also GPX- its the old model, with the "sync rate" select switch at the rear. So, I'll have to find a VR219-DA or somesuch, first.. --fred From cb at mythtech.net Sat Jan 18 16:31:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: Apple 1 schematics Message-ID: >A: Yes. >B: Google is your friend. Oh look at that... tons of hits. Gee, I figured it might be the kind of thing that Apple would have protected... maybe it was the thread on copyrights just soured me into forgetting that not everything in this world is locked away in a vault. >It's *extremely* difficult to find some of the Apple I parts, which have >been out of production for over years. Particularly the seven 1024-bit >MOS shift registers, and one hex-40-bit MOS shift register. Bummer! Maybe Tony will chime in with a list of readily available, drop it alternatives... or the plans to make replacements using common household cleaning products :-) >Not quite, since they had a PCB. (Unless you plan to lay out a PCB >yourself.) I really hadn't thought that far in advance.... I was honestly under the wrong impression that the Apple 1 plans would be hard to come by. -chris From arcarlini at iee.org Sat Jan 18 16:34:01 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: VXT X terminal question In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C90D@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <000301c2bf42$118c4f70$cb87fe3e@athlon> > Although I have both the M38 and M76 set up, I cant get the video > part to work - tube (that is on a VXT2000 right now) doesn't > seem to sync on either model. The M38 is standard, the M76 > is the SPX model. Anyone have a clue? What monitor are you using? These things are synch-on-green, which not all monitors support. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Jan 18 16:37:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: VXT X terminal question Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C911@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> I tried with both VR320 and VR19-D3, see next msg on list. This is driving me nuts. --fred > -----Original Message----- > From: Antonio Carlini [mailto:arcarlini@iee.org] > Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 11:37 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: VXT X terminal question > > > > Although I have both the M38 and M76 set up, I cant get the video > > part to work - tube (that is on a VXT2000 right now) doesn't > > seem to sync on either model. The M38 is standard, the M76 > > is the SPX model. Anyone have a clue? > > What monitor are you using? These things are synch-on-green, > which not all monitors support. > > Antonio > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > > From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Jan 18 16:44:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: Harddrive collectors In-Reply-To: <4202.1042898628@www4.gmx.net> References: <20030117200853.E57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <4202.1042898628@www4.gmx.net> Message-ID: <20030118221810.GA1909@ickis.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Sat, Jan 18, 2003 at 03:03:48PM +0100, P.Gebhardt@gmx.de wrote: > I'll watch out for specs of theses drives and tell you when I find > something. Thanks, that would be nice. > If you want to get rid of your nec drives someday, > mail to me !! ;) Nur über meine Leiche! ;-) > By the way, I still haven't found specs for my QD32. > Is there anybody who has manuals for this controller ? Ahh, I knew there was somthing. I have a QD33 manual, possibly a QD32 manual too. There is a short description of the QD32 / QD33 at hamsters site. It was enough to get my QD33 working with the NEC drives. -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From arcarlini at iee.org Sat Jan 18 16:47:01 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: VXT X terminal question [VR219 blues] In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FE00@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <000401c2bf43$ce62a300$cb87fe3e@athlon> > Hmm. OK... I used the monitor (VR320) that was connected to > my VXT2000, and that seems to be a GPX tube. I dragged a > (heavy !) VR219-D3 monitor out of storage, and connected > that. No go, either, _and_ it wont sync either. Looks like > that one is also GPX- its the old model, with the "sync rate" > select switch at the rear. > > So, I'll have to find a VR219-DA or somesuch, first.. http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/vax/vs3khw.html may have some useful information. Do you have any modern PC monitor that can do SOG? - my Iiyama does, for example. If you hook one of these up, rather than one of the DEC fixed-frequency monitors, you should be able to tell whether the rest of the system is OK. Also bear in mind that the VS3100-76 takes quite a while before doing *anything* on the monitor - I forget exactly how long, but it could be as long as 3 minutes. I assume you know this, but just in case ... Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jan 18 16:49:03 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? In-Reply-To: David Holland "SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability?" (Jan 18, 13:07) References: <1042913239.31345.14.camel@crusader> Message-ID: <10301182240.ZM26806@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 18, 13:07, David Holland wrote: > On Fri, 2003-01-17 at 23:19, Brian Chase wrote: > > I'll wait to get an Onyx. Actually, the Origin 2000s are quite lovely, > > too. They're still really off topic for this list. > Wot about SGI Crimson's? (Or in my case, a Power Series frame, w/ > Crimson boards in it) Or are they too new (and LARGE :-) ) for the > list? I think Brian may have meant Onyx2, which is basically an Origin2000 with a shedload (or at least half a rack's worth) of graphics engine. Crimsons and Power Series are certainly on-topic here. > (The optical mouse I have for it is in too bad a shape to be really > usable anymore - the felts shot, and it sticks to the metal plate/mouse > pad too much for my tastes.) Why can't you clean it, and replace the felt? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jplist at kiwigeek.com Sat Jan 18 16:51:07 2003 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: SGI Discussions? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Brian Chase wrote: > On 18 Jan 2003, David Holland wrote: > > Wot about SGI Crimson's? (Or in my case, a Power Series frame, w/ > > Crimson boards in it) Or are they too new (and LARGE :-) ) for the > > > > I'd also be interested if anyone has interfaced a Sun Type 5 mouse to > > it, as they look like they use the same protocol, just one is +5v logic, See below; > > (The optical mouse I have for it is in too bad a shape to be really > > usable anymore - the felts shot, and it sticks to the metal plate/mouse > > pad too much for my tastes.) > I'll see if we have any spare older mice. I know at least with the Indy > and Indigo2s onward they all used regular PS/2 mice. I'm not sure about > the Onyx systems, or the gear predating the mid-1990s time frame. My > introduction to SGI equipment came around 1994 or so. The SGI Crimson uses the same proprietary mouse/keyboard as the Indigo and its predecessors, the power series and other personal iris'. The Onyx uses the PS/2 keyb/mice like the Indy. You can convert other early SGI keyboard/mice to work with an Indigo (and thusly, Crimson)... Requires some pinout fiddling. You can also convert a Sun-3 mouse to work as an Indigo mouse, however I don't believe any keyboards which exist by other makes can be converted. If you google for 'This Old SGI' you will find some info about the earlier SGIs keyboard/mice, which may be able to help you. JP From cb at mythtech.net Sat Jan 18 16:54:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: APOLOGY: Re: "Piracy" (was: Unauthorized copying Message-ID: >Interestingly, the "Bill Gates Open Letter to Hobbyists", that is often >cited as being the origin of the word "piracy" being applied to software, >turns out to NOT use the word "piracy". It always helps to check >citations before relying on them. Someday, I'll learn to do so. I just read the letter... first time I ever have. I found two things that make me go hummmm: 1: MS Software is probably one of the highest pirated groups of software out there (no figures to back this up, its a wild assumption based on the fact that I know lots and lots of people that have various versions of Windows and/or MS Office, and haven't paid for all the copies they are running. Compounded by the vast market share, it seems that there is a good chance they rank at or near the #1 spot). Yet despite this, Mr. Gates seems to have done pretty well for himself. Actually, I have often wondered, if MS Software didn't get pirated, and every copy that every company and person ran was a fully paid for copy, would MS have the market share they have today. So it seems to me at least that MS has had a piracy problem from the get go... and it didn't really hurt them in the least. 2: His parting line in the letter: "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software ". I just have to laugh when I read that. Well, he got the deluge part right. :-) (Disclaimer: Yes, that is a clear MS bash statement, but it is tongue in cheek... yes, I personally don't care for MS software over many of the alternatives... but in the long run, most of their stuff really isn't THAT bad... its just fun to say it is). -chris From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Jan 18 16:56:05 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:41 2005 Subject: Harddrive collectors In-Reply-To: <4202.1042898628@www4.gmx.net> References: <20030117200853.E57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <4202.1042898628@www4.gmx.net> Message-ID: <20030118225345.GA2160@ickis.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Sat, Jan 18, 2003 at 03:03:48PM +0100, P.Gebhardt@gmx.de wrote: > By the way, I still haven't found specs for my QD32. http://www.telnet.hu/hamster/dr/qd33.html -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 18 17:38:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: RK07 repairable? In-Reply-To: <20030118091552.S57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> from "Jochen Kunz" at Jan 18, 3 09:15:52 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1263 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030118/e0ffeca6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 18 17:41:45 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: PET 2001 oddity - solved! In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030118132338.019c43f8@slave> from "Adrian Vickers" at Jan 18, 3 01:28:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 485 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030118/58afbaba/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 18 17:43:54 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: PET 2001 oddity In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030118122355.01a92eb0@slave> from "Adrian Vickers" at Jan 18, 3 12:49:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 389 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030118/7b72efbd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 18 17:45:58 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 743 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030118/8b4631dc/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 18 17:49:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: About Electronics Questions In-Reply-To: <3E289A57.3000104@jetnet.ab.ca> from "ben franchuk" at Jan 17, 3 05:05:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 814 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030118/d3b9ccb5/attachment.ksh From avickers at solutionengineers.com Sat Jan 18 17:51:09 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030118232850.017a9888@slave> Having fond memories of using VAXen (specifically, an 8800) back in my 'stoodent' days, and in more recent times too (unknown type @ JP Morgan), and further having seen numerous references to OpenVMS & VAXen on this list, I got to thinking... I'd actually quite like a VAX. Unfortunately, this is probably impossible in the short term - unless I want to buy the MicroVAX 3100 currently on eBay @ a fiver. But that's not a *real* VAX, it's just not big enough... And besides, it hasn't got a CD-ROM, which I will need to load OpenVMS. Anyway, following yet another link posted on this list revealed the PDP-11 (and, coincidentally, VAX) simulator. Nice. So I downloads it, along with MinGW (anyone else think of "minging[1] Windows" immediately, or is it just me?), compile it, and eventually figure out roughly how to get to the basic VAX ">>>" prompt. And here, I'm rather stuck. So, does anyone have any nice'n'easy instructions on how to get the SIMH VAX simulator ready for OpenVMS? I've read both the simulator document & the VAX document, and I'm still well in the dark WRT how to get it up & running... Basically, I've no idea what devices to ATTACH, what or how to configure it, and so forth. Obviously, I'll have to sort out an OpenVMS kit before I can do anything remotely useful, and I'll probably need an extra HDD in the PC (<1gig free now), blah blah. (oh yes, and Hans has found several faults in my websites which I /really/ ought to fix first... - but, well, you know how it goes :) So, can anyone help? TIA! [1] "minging" {v}: "really ugly" (he/she's minging) or quite smelly and rotten (that bin's minging). UK expression (poss. Northern UK only). -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Jan 18 17:53:12 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: Results: VXT X terminal question Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C912@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> All, Took some fiddling with boards and a firm kick to the monitor, but... we haveth resulths. Setup: Server1: VAXserver 3100, OpenBSD/vax V3.1 Server2: VAX 4000-100, OpenSD/vax V3.1 Client1: VAXstation 3100-M38 [SPX], VR219-D3 Client2: VAXstation 3100-M76 [SPX], VR219-D3 Server2 is the boot server which runs [my version of] MOPD, and which is the load host here for the VAXlab network. It has no probs booting the terminal servers, DECnis 600, the VXT2000's and all VAXen I have. When booting the M76 with the VXT (V2.1) load image, nothing happens after the load image has been loaded. In other words, it dies when started. When loading the M38... _it_works_ ! The VXT software "detects" a VT1300 with SPX and 16MB, and happily runs. So.. heh. Now, to find out what is happening with the M76... --fred From pcw at mesanet.com Sat Jan 18 18:03:00 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: VXT X terminal question [VR219 blues] In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FE00@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > I wrote: > > > Although I have both the M38 and M76 set up, I cant get the video > > part to work - tube (that is on a VXT2000 right now) doesn't seem > > to sync on either model. The M38 is standard, the M76 is the SPX > > model. Anyone have a clue? > Hmm. OK... I used the monitor (VR320) that was connected to my VXT2000, > and that seems to be a GPX tube. I dragged a (heavy !) VR219-D3 monitor > out of storage, and connected that. No go, either, _and_ it wont sync > either. Looks like that one is also GPX- its the old model, with the > "sync rate" select switch at the rear. > > So, I'll have to find a VR219-DA or somesuch, first.. > > --fred > VR320s are 1280x1024 at 66 or 72 Hz = not GPX Peter Wallace From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Jan 18 18:05:13 2003 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Jan 18, 3 09:42:24 am" Message-ID: <200301190016.QAA10710@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Look at us: we're a bunch of stupid hobbyists holding on to old computers. Not me, baby. I'm a *smart* hobbyist. :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Man fears Time, yet Time fears the Pyramids. -- Arab proverb --------------- From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sat Jan 18 18:08:01 2003 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: APOLOGY: Re: "Piracy" (was: Unauthorized copying In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3223AC96-2B42-11D7-A5DE-000502512D39@calico.litterbox.com> I think therein lies the problem. Microsoft always seems to aspire to mediocrity in volume. I was reading an article on LowEndMac which suggested that the reason Apple seems to take bolder steps and more risks is that Jobs has *lost* a few bets - booted out of Apple, NeXT tanked, was bought by Apple -, whereas Gates and company always play it safe, but never rise beyond mediocrity. > 2: His parting line in the letter: > > "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers > and deluge the hobby market with good software ". > > I just have to laugh when I read that. Well, he got the deluge part > right. :-) > > (Disclaimer: Yes, that is a clear MS bash statement, but it is tongue > in > cheek... yes, I personally don't care for MS software over many of the > alternatives... but in the long run, most of their stuff really isn't > THAT bad... its just fun to say it is). > From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 18 18:11:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: (OT) Unauthorized copying ... was Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1042859408.9941.74.camel@azure.subsolar> Message-ID: On 17 Jan 2003, Paul wrote: > If copyright suddenly disappeared, people would still write stories, > sing songs, program computers and society at-large would continue. True, or did creativity start when copyright laws were put into effect? > The generally quality of works would probably be lower so copyright in > general is probably good for society. There is an inifinite body of work that precedes copyright law which is greater in quality than anything being produced today ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sat Jan 18 18:14:00 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: Results: VXT X terminal question Message-ID: <0301190015.AA03964@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > When booting the M76 with the VXT (V2.1) load image, nothing happens > after the load image has been loaded. In other words, it dies when > started. > > [...] > > So.. heh. Now, to find out what is happening with the M76... Well, it's obvious what's happening. The VXT program reads the SID register, sees the top byte equal to 0B, and doesn't know what the heck to do with it. In other words, it just doesn't support this machine. > When loading the M38... _it_works_ ! > The VXT software "detects" a VT1300 with SPX and 16MB, and happily runs. Good. This is what I expected, but just to make sure. The real VT1300 was AFAIK a KA42-A (M30, 90 ns cycle time) with GPX video, so you've just built a better VT1300 with a faster 60 ns cycle time CPU and with SPX video. Given that the VXT program runs on 3 different CPUs (VS2000 with MV II, KA42/VT1300 with CVAX, and VXT2000 with SOC), we can safely assume that your faster VT1300 won't cause any problems later, i.e., the program is very unlikely to time things with CPU cycles. MS From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 18 18:16:06 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: Intellectual "PROPERTY" In-Reply-To: <004501c2bed9$cf4017e0$513bcd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > I think you left out the part about the fact that we stole the country > from the Indians. Nope, we didn't steal it from the Indians. They were still busy trading spices and stuff by the time North America was discovered. No, we stole it from the indigenous peoples that were here when the Pilgrims landed ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sat Jan 18 18:19:01 2003 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030118232850.017a9888@slave> Message-ID: <73D157D8-2B43-11D7-A5DE-000502512D39@calico.litterbox.com> IMHO the easiest way to get a vax is get a vaxstation 4000VLC. You can connect a number of PC CDROMS to the SCSI port on it and have them work (although there is weirdness with block sizes - get a good drive, I know Plextor supports the required mode), it takes PC simms and if memory serves is either a 4 or 8 VUP machine, where 1 VUP = the performance of an original 11/780. For a single user (especially with a terminal rather than soaking up cycles with DecWindows) these things are quite powerful. I have one, but I'm not inclined to sell. :) 3100s are the next best choice, although their proprietary memory is much more expensive. I think I gave $120 for my VaxStation, but I forget. It was an ebay auction. I bought my VT320 from Will, if memory serves, or traded him for a Kaypro IV, I forget. Also, my boss at Intel (when I was contracting there a couple years ago) had come from DecSupport, and had a 320 color they'd sent home with her, along with a printer, which she offered me for the sake of getting it out of her garage. I still have to clean the mouse poop out of the thing and really test it out, but it powered up and seemed to be in reasonable shape when last I tried it. The point here is that this stuff can be gotten fairly inexpensively. Check surplus stores, especially. The one here in Podunkville (Colorado Springs, CO) has quite a selection of DEC hardware. Also, if you're just into VMS and don't really care about what platform it actually runs on, I imagine you can get an alpha fairly inexpensively, which should give you all the power you could ever want. On Saturday, January 18, 2003, at 04:40 PM, Adrian Vickers wrote: > Having fond memories of using VAXen (specifically, an 8800) back in my > 'stoodent' days, and in more recent times too (unknown type @ JP > Morgan), and further having seen numerous references to OpenVMS & > VAXen on this list, I got to thinking... > > I'd actually quite like a VAX. > > Unfortunately, this is probably impossible in the short term - unless > I want to buy the MicroVAX 3100 currently on eBay @ a fiver. But > that's not a *real* VAX, it's just not big enough... And besides, it > hasn't got a CD-ROM, which I will need to load OpenVMS. > > Anyway, following yet another link posted on this list revealed the > PDP-11 (and, coincidentally, VAX) simulator. Nice. So I downloads it, > along with MinGW (anyone else think of "minging[1] Windows" > immediately, or is it just me?), compile it, and eventually figure out > roughly how to get to the basic VAX ">>>" prompt. And here, I'm rather > stuck. > > So, does anyone have any nice'n'easy instructions on how to get the > SIMH VAX simulator ready for OpenVMS? I've read both the simulator > document & the VAX document, and I'm still well in the dark WRT how to > get it up & running... Basically, I've no idea what devices to ATTACH, > what or how to configure it, and so forth. > > Obviously, I'll have to sort out an OpenVMS kit before I can do > anything remotely useful, and I'll probably need an extra HDD in the > PC (<1gig free now), blah blah. (oh yes, and Hans has found several > faults in my websites which I /really/ ought to fix first... - but, > well, you know how it goes :) > > So, can anyone help? > > TIA! > > > [1] "minging" {v}: "really ugly" (he/she's minging) or quite smelly > and rotten (that bin's minging). UK expression (poss. Northern UK > only). > -- > Cheers, Ade. > Be where it's at, B-Racing! > http://b-racing.com From kth at srv.net Sat Jan 18 18:32:01 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: VMS command question and help, off-topic References: <20030117185224.GA733@kotol.kotelna.sk> Message-ID: <3E29F7BB.8040104@srv.net> Adrien Farkas wrote: >Hello VMS folks, > >just a very simple question, what does a command like this do: > >BACKUP MULTIA_V72.BCK/SAVE DVA0:/IMAGE/VERIFY > That takes a backup file (multia_v72.bck) from the current directory, and restores it onto DVA0:, and then makes a second pass to verify what it put there matches what's in the saveset. > >(it's alpha vms, so not sure whether floppy is named DVA0: on VAXen, >too). > The controller specifies the name of the floppy drive, so it can vary from machine to machine. > >I know basicaly what this does, my question is whether the .BCK file has >some special format or whether UNIX command like this: > > $ cat MULTIA_V72.BCK > /dev/diskette0 > >or > > $ dd if=MULTIA_V72.BCK of=/dev/diskette0 > >is equivalent. > > Nope. It is a special format, and not the same format as a disk image. >If it's some special format, were it possible that you issue this >command for me on some VMS and grab the diskette raw file and make it >available for me? the image is available at >http://www.kotelna.sk/freddy/multia_v72.bck (1419264 bytes). > >Cheers, > > Sorry, no floppy drive available to me... From bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com Sat Jan 18 18:48:01 2003 From: bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com (Bill McDermith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <008e01c2bf54$f4076a80$6501a8c0@az> Tony, For the Fairchild parts at least, filled in below. If you need other info about these, let me know.. Regards, Bill McDermith bill_mcdermith .at. yahoo .dot. com (apply obvious antispam) > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 4:32 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips > > > I'm fixing some old HP computer hardware (a 9830 computer and > its 9866 > thermal printer), and I've come up against a few ICs I don't > have pinouts > for :-(. > > If anyone has them, could they fill in the tables below : > > Fairchild 9311 (4 bit -> 16 line decoder?) > > 1 : /o[0] > 2 : /o[1] > 3 : /o[2] > 4 : /o[3] > 5 : /o[4] > 6 : /o[5] > 7 : /o[6] > 8 : /o[7] > 9 : /o[8] > 10 : /o[9] > 11 : /o[10] > 12 : Gnd > 13 : /o[11] > 14 : /o[12] > 15 : /o[13] > 16 : /o[14] > 17 : /o[15] > 18 : /e[0] > 19 : /e[1] > 20 : a[3] > 21 : a[2] > 22 : a[1] > 23 : a[0] > 24 : Vcc > > Fairchild 93L14 (latch?) quad latch > > 1 : /e > 2 : /s[0] > 3 : d[0] > 4 : d[1] > 5 : /s[2] > 6 : d[2] > 7 : d[3] > 8 : Gnd > 9 : /mr > 10 : q[3] > 11 : /s[3] > 12 : q[2] > 13 : q[1] > 14 : /s[1] > 15 : q[0] > 16 : Vcc /e Enable Input (active low) d[0]-d[3] Data Inputs /s[0]-/s[3] Set Input (active low) /mr Master Reset Input (active low) q[0]-q[3] Latch Outputs Truth table /mr /e d /s q[n] operation ----------------------------------- H L L L L D MODE H L H L H H H X X q[n-1] ----------------------------------- H L L L L R/S MODE H L H L H H L L H L H L H H q[n-1] H H X X q[n-1] ----------------------------------- L X X X L reset mode > > Signetics 8273 (10 bit serial-in, parallel out shift register) Sorry, can't find the Signetics data book. I'll forward it to you if I locate it... > > 1 : > 2 : > 3 : > 4 : > 5 : Q10 > 6 : Clk/ > 7 : > 8 : Gnd > 9 : Clr/ > 10 : Serial In > 11 : Q1 > 12 : Q2 > 13 : Q3 > 14 : Q4 > 15 : > 16 : Vcc > > Thanks in advance for any help > > -tony > From marvin at rain.org Sat Jan 18 18:51:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips References: Message-ID: <3E29F6E3.712692F0@rain.org> Tony Duell wrote: > > I'm fixing some old HP computer hardware (a 9830 computer and its 9866 > thermal printer), and I've come up against a few ICs I don't have pinouts > for :-(. > > If anyone has them, could they fill in the tables below : > > Fairchild 9311 (4 bit -> 16 line decoder?) One-Of-Sixteen Decoder/Demultiplexer The 9311 is a TTL/MSI Multi-Purpose Decoder designed to accept four inputs and provide 16 mutually exclusive outputs. The Circuit uses TTL for high speed and high fan-out capability, and is compatible with all members of the Fairchild TTL family. A0 - A3 - Address Inputs E0, E1 - AND enable (Active LOW) inputs 0 - 15 (Active LOW) Outputs, 10 U.L. is the output LOW drive factor, and 20 U.L. is the output HIGH drive factor. > 1 : 0 > 2 : 1 > 3 : 2 > 4 : 3 > 5 : 4 > 6 : 5 > 7 : 6 > 8 : 7 > 9 : 8 > 10 : 9 > 11 : 10 > 12 : Gnd > 13 : 11 > 14 : 12 > 15 : 13 > 16 : 14 > 17 : 15 > 18 : E0 > 19 : E1 > 20 : A0 > 21 : A1 > 22 : A2 > 23 : A3 > 24 : Vcc > > Fairchild 93L14 (latch?) > Low Power Quad Latch - LPTTL/MSI is a multifunctional 4-bit latch. The latch is desgined for general purpose storage applications in high speed digital systems. All inputs feature diode clamping to reduce negative line transients. All outputs have active pull-up circuitry to provide low impedance in both logit states for good ac noise immunity. E - Enable (Active LOW) Input D0 - D3 Data Inputs S0 - S3 Set (Active LOW) Inputs MR - Master Reset (Active LOW) Input Q0 - Q3 Latch Outputs > 1 : E > 2 : S0 > 3 : D0 > 4 : D1 > 5 : S2 > 6 : D2 > 7 : S3 > 8 : Gnd > 9 : MR > 10 : Q3 > 11 : S3 > 12 : Q2 > 13 : Q1 > 14 : S1 > 15 : Q0 > 16 : Vcc > > Signetics 8273 (10 bit serial-in, parallel out shift register) The 8273 10-bit Shift Register is an array of binary elements interconnected to perform the serial-in, parallel-out shift function. This device utilizes a common buffered reset and operates from either a positive or negative edge clock pulse. Clock 1 is triggered by a negative going clock pulse and clock 2 is triggered by a positive going clock pulse. The circuit configuration is arranged as a single serial input register with ten true parallel outputs. > > 1 : Q6 > 2 : Q7 > 3 : Q8 > 4 : Q9 > 5 : Q10 > 6 : Clock 1 > 7 : Clock 2 > 8 : Gnd > 9 : Reset > 10 : Serial In > 11 : Q1 > 12 : Q2 > 13 : Q3 > 14 : Q4 > 15 : Q5 > 16 : Vcc Truth Table Input Reset (active low) Clock 1 Clock 2 On+1 1 1 Pulse 0 1 0 1 Pulse 0 0 1 1 1 Pulse 1 0 1 1 Pulse 0 1 1 Pulse 1 Q 0 1 Pulse 1 Q 1 1 0 Pulse Q 0 1 0 Pulse Q Note: The unused clock input performs the INHIBIT function. Reset = 0 > Q = 0 > > Thanks in advance for any help > > -tony From arcarlini at iee.org Sat Jan 18 19:33:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030118232850.017a9888@slave> Message-ID: <000801c2bf5b$23cecdc0$cb87fe3e@athlon> > Unfortunately, this is probably impossible in the short term > - unless I > want to buy the MicroVAX 3100 currently on eBay @ a fiver. Didn't see one at a fiver. Saw http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1484&item=23017 94356 which is claimed to be a UV3100-95. Assuming it is, then it's a darned fast VAX (in VAX terms) and really well worth having. The DLT looks more like a TZ30 to me (still nice to have) and it's unusual to have a 2.88MB floppy on a VAX. Might be worth asking for confirmation that it is a VAX (like a log of it booting to the >>> prompt or a quote of the part number on the mainboard). > But that's not a > *real* VAX, it's just not big enough... And besides, it hasn't got a > CD-ROM, which I will need to load OpenVMS. CDROMs are cheap, even the RRD-compatible ones. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Sat Jan 18 19:50:00 2003 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: (OT) Unauthorized copying ... was Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1042941205.1101.13.camel@azure.subsolar> On Sat, 2003-01-18 at 18:10, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On 17 Jan 2003, Paul wrote: > > > If copyright suddenly disappeared, people would still write stories, > > sing songs, program computers and society at-large would continue. > > True, or did creativity start when copyright laws were put into effect? I think we both know that creativity has always existed, the only thing that copyright does is provide a slight incentive. :^) > > The generally quality of works would probably be lower so copyright in > > general is probably good for society. > > There is an inifinite body of work that precedes copyright law which is > greater in quality than anything being produced today ;) There is a very large body in the public domain ... though I remember reading a study that show of all the works that have been resisted to the library of congress 90%+ have been registered in the last 70 years, but this does not really cover *old* works. The stuff that has survived hundred or thousands of years is of course better quality than most the stuff produced today because of a form of "natural selection" were people naturally protect works that are compelling in some way. Regards, Paul From avickers at solutionengineers.com Sat Jan 18 19:58:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... In-Reply-To: <000801c2bf5b$23cecdc0$cb87fe3e@athlon> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030118232850.017a9888@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030119015902.00b5daf0@slave> At 01:36 19/01/2003, you wrote: > > Unfortunately, this is probably impossible in the short term > > - unless I > > want to buy the MicroVAX 3100 currently on eBay @ a fiver. > >Didn't see one at a fiver. Saw >http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1484&item=23017 >94356 That's the one - and blimey, it's jumped nearly ?21 since I looked (it was at ?5.19). >which is claimed to be a UV3100-95. Assuming it is, then it's >a darned fast VAX (in VAX terms) and really well worth having. >The DLT looks more like a TZ30 to me (still nice to have) and >it's unusual to have a 2.88MB floppy on a VAX. Might be worth >asking for confirmation that it is a VAX (like a log of >it booting to the >>> prompt or a quote of the part number on >the mainboard). Ah, but in my quest to own one of every computer I've ever used, I'm now only lacking two: A 48k dead-flesh Spectrum (believe it or not, but I'm in no hurry, there's millions about), and a VAX8800. Frankly, the 8800 is too big, but that is too small... > > But that's not a > > *real* VAX, it's just not big enough... And besides, it hasn't got a > > CD-ROM, which I will need to load OpenVMS. > >CDROMs are cheap, even the RRD-compatible ones. What is the best place to get them from? It's not something I can see popping up on eBay every 10 mins... -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From jrasite at eoni.com Sat Jan 18 20:02:01 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? References: <017001c2bf05$b96d6090$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <3E2A07DF.4080306@eoni.com> From an admitedly small sample. The local schools grab every obsolete Mac I offer them. Everything from SEs to early nubus PPCs. The instructors love them. They also say, "Windows don't do music composition." What Windows programs score from MIDI? Jim J.C.Wren wrote: > Say WHAT? There are dozens of music programs for the PC, and some are good > enough for studio production work (like Cakewalk and Pro Tools). Where'd > you ever get that idea? > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Jan 18 20:05:00 2003 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: Dear Santa, I would like a Yamaha CX5M ... Message-ID: <200301190218.SAA11558@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Anyone ever seen someone out there trying to get rid of a Yamaha CX5M? It's about the only MSX machine I have significant curiosity about due to its specialised music abilities. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I used to miss my ex-girlfriend, but then my aim improved. ----------------- From univac2 at earthlink.net Sat Jan 18 20:40:01 2003 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: Dear Santa, I would like a Yamaha CX5M ... In-Reply-To: <200301190218.SAA11558@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: on 1/18/03 8:18 PM, Cameron Kaiser at spectre@stockholm.ptloma.edu wrote: > Anyone ever seen someone out there trying to get rid of a Yamaha CX5M? It's > about the only MSX machine I have significant curiosity about due to its > specialised music abilities. I have one in storage. I've always wanted to get it running, because it looks like an interesting little machine. Found it at Goodwill. I'm thinking I'll keep it for the time being, but may eventually get rid of it. If and when I do I'll let you know. Do you know anything about it? -- Owen Robertson From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Sat Jan 18 20:55:00 2003 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: Apple 1 schematics - (OT) copyright comments In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1042945156.1101.80.camel@azure.subsolar> On Sat, 2003-01-18 at 16:34, chris wrote: > >A: Yes. > >B: Google is your friend. > > Oh look at that... tons of hits. > > Gee, I figured it might be the kind of thing that Apple would have > protected... maybe it was the thread on copyrights just soured me into > forgetting that not everything in this world is locked away in a vault. Well Steve Wozniak designed the Apple 1 and was part of the homebrew computer club, which was a pretty open group of people into sharing information, he would probably say the design is in the public domain. He is probably happy that people are preserving his work and that they find joy in preserving the history of microcomputers. > >It's *extremely* difficult to find some of the Apple I parts, which have > >been out of production for over years. Particularly the seven 1024-bit > >MOS shift registers, and one hex-40-bit MOS shift register. > I really hadn't thought that far in advance.... I was honestly under the > wrong impression that the Apple 1 plans would be hard to come by. How are you going to get the ROMs if everybody believes in strict copyright? I think it would be just about impossible to recreate an old system without stepping on somebody's copyright. --- a general rant to the list --- Companies generally are not interested in maintaining their old copyrights and preserving them, in the vast majority of cases old works are is only maintained by dedicated hobbyists or librarians. This is why "hard copyrights" like we have now with encryption and digital restrictions entering firmware and severe criminal penalties for any violation, without the character of the infringement even being considered, is wrong. Before 1973 the owners of a copyright had to actively maintain it by first claiming copyright and second by registering it to keep it active after the initial 28years. Before the No Electronic Theft Act in 1996(7?) it was not considered infringement to reproduce works as long as the work was not being actively maintained i.e. publicly available and it was not done fore profit. So if I had a copy of a manual for an old piece of equipment I was free to make a copy and give it to you as long as I did not profit directly from the act. There is no logical reason that many technically infringing uses of abandoned copyrights should be perfectly legal as long as it is not for profit. If your argument to refute this is that the author has a right control of the work, I would say that this right is not absolute since it is legal for me to make a dub of a CD for my car, to sing happy birthday (still copyrighted) at a birthday party in my home, and to record TV off the air without having to pay royalties to anyone. I see it as once an author makes a works publicly available, additional non-commercial uses should fall into fair use if the author does not continue making the work available to the public. ::sigh:: OK, I have that off my chest for now. Actually a discussion copyright probably does belong on this list since people are discussing making copies of manuals, eproms, paper tapes, etc to preserve and keep old systems running and all these fall under copyright and reproducing them is a infringe of copyright without the author's consent even if it is done for non-commercial purposes under current US law. Regards, Paul From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jan 18 21:10:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... In-Reply-To: <000801c2bf5b$23cecdc0$cb87fe3e@athlon> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030118232850.017a9888@slave> Message-ID: >Didn't see one at a fiver. Saw >http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1484&item=23017 >94356 >which is claimed to be a UV3100-95. Assuming it is, then it's >a darned fast VAX (in VAX terms) and really well worth having. That's one nice VAX, I'm glad it's on the other side of the pond :^) >The DLT looks more like a TZ30 to me (still nice to have) and A good indication that it's a TZ30 is that it's a half-height drive. The TZ30 is the only half-height drive that uses Compact-Tapes. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 18 21:26:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: (OT) Unauthorized copying ... was Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1042941205.1101.13.camel@azure.subsolar> Message-ID: On 18 Jan 2003, Paul Berger wrote: > I think we both know that creativity has always existed, the only thing > that copyright does is provide a slight incentive. :^) Well, maybe it provides slightly MORE incentive. Incentive comes in different forms. Some people just want to be heard. Some people just like to disseminate. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 18 21:27:05 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: Dear Santa, I would like a Yamaha CX5M ... In-Reply-To: <200301190218.SAA11558@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > Anyone ever seen someone out there trying to get rid of a Yamaha CX5M? It's > about the only MSX machine I have significant curiosity about due to its > specialised music abilities. Yes, and I helped them get rid of it by taking it away for them ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 18 21:27:59 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: Apple 1 schematics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, chris wrote: > In reading my copy of Collectible Microcomputers (yes yes, you all get > it by now, I like the book... ok, I'll stop refering to it after > this)... I noticed in the Apple Computer section a mention of how > Apple's first customers were the folks that got schematics for the Apple > 1 when it was first shown at Home Brew. > > Although I already knew that they alledgedly gave out schematics... I > began to wonder A: did they really (probably) and B: do any copies exist > anywhere? > > I thought it might be a fun project to try an build an Apple 1 from the > schematics... just as the first users probably did. So, does anyone know > if they are available, or does anyone have a copy and might want to send > me a set? Or are copies just as elusive as the Apple 1 itself and there > is no shot in ever getting them. Ok, I guess its time I post on the list about this... I've been thinking about this very project for sometime. The main problems that I came up with are: 1. certain parts are difficult to find 2. ROM source and/or binary image availability 3. re-creating the pc boards The first problem should be possible to overcome either by finding a stock of surplus parts, or should significant demand exist, having the parts made by a company that specializes in fabricating out of production parts. I've actually looked into the later a couple times in the past, and the prices didn't seem to be out of line. I've even wondered if it would be possible to get a copy of the mask from Intel for say the i8008 or i4004 and have reproductions made. The second and third problems may be slightly more difficult to overcome. One option would be to find an Apple 1, dump the ROMs, carefully unsolder all the parts and scan each side of the cleaned pc boards. The scanned images can then be used to create gerber files. I personally don't have the funds to go out and buy an Apple 1, and I don't know of anyone who would give up one just for it to be taken to bits. Another option for the second and third problems is to contact Woz and see if he would be willing to help. I have so far restrained myself from emailing him, since I know he gets tons and tons of emails, including people asking him if he has an Apple 1 he could give them, etc. I'd imagine Woz would very much like to see the Apple 1 preserved, but it would probably take him quite a bit of time to find all the docs and info that we'd need. -Toth From djg at drs-esg.com Sat Jan 18 21:38:00 2003 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips Message-ID: <200301190341.WAA04525@drs-esg.com> Subject: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips Fairchild 9311 (4 bit -> 16 line decoder?) 1 of 16 decoder 1 : 0 2 : 1 3 : 2 4 : 3 5 : 4 6 : 5 7 : 6 8 : 7 9 : 8 10 : 9 11 : 10 12 : Gnd 13 : 11 14 : 12 15 : 13 16 : 14 17 : 15 18 : E1 19 : E2 20 : A3 21 : A2 22 : A1 23 : A0 24 : Vcc E1 and E2 both low to enable output. Outputs 0-15 are active low Fairchild 93L14 (latch?) Probably same as NSC http://www.national.com/ds/93/93L14.pdf Signetics 8273 (10 bit serial-in, parallel out shift register) 1 : Q6 2 : Q7 3 : Q8 4 : Q9 5 : Q10 6 : ClK1/ 7 : CLK2 8 : Gnd 9 : Clr/ 10 : Serial In 11 : Q1 12 : Q2 13 : Q3 14 : Q4 15 : Q5 16 : Vcc Clk2 low and clk1 works clk1 high and clk2 works clk1 feeds an inverter then is ored with clk2 and result inverted to clock the flip flops. David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights. From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jan 18 21:42:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: DOS 1.0 In-Reply-To: <004d01c2bb89$78b1d830$1e01a8c0@netadelxp> References: <20030113185615.518.48355.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> <000c01c2bb41$1f611680$0149030a@mohg.com> <004d01c2bb89$78b1d830$1e01a8c0@netadelxp> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Live Wire wrote: > > I do also memember Wordstar and it's arcane command sequences. Those > > commands persisted though, through a number of ordinary text editors > > for programmers & such. > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/joe-editor/ > > This is as close to wordstar and the WS CTRL-K-x command set I have > found. I used to use wordstar on a tiny portable computer with a 4 line > display to write asm for the amiga 500 and then dump it via the built in > modem. Joe is my favorite editor today, though I find myself living in > vi for the most part... I use 'joe' constantly myself. It's my day to day editor for editing source code. I have used vi and vim somewhat, but I've honestly not yet taken the time to learn vi as well as I should. I'm sure I must be missing out by not using vi (well, thats what other software developers tell me), but joe is fast and does what I need it to. Somewhere, I have a complete Wordstar set for the Apple II. IIRC, I pulled it and some other complete Apple II software from a trash pile back in 1998 or so. -Toth From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Jan 18 22:03:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002901c2bf70$15cf8880$9842cd18@D73KSM11> > On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > > Often it simply isn't worth it to build upon something unless you > > enjoy exclusive rights. The restoration of old films is a good > > example. The studios that hold copyrights to old pictures > spend huge > > amounts of money to restore the prints for issue in DVD format > > precisely because they hold exclusive rights and can make back what > > they spend. In the case of public domain films, this simply doesn't > > happen. As a result, you cannot obtain a decent quality > copy of most > > public domain films because no one is willing to spend money on > > remastering when the public domain distributors are selling > the film > > for $6.99 or less a pop. If you want an example, go on > Amazon and read > > the DVD reviews for "Royal Wedding" a 1951 Fred Astaire/Jane Powell > > film that went public domain in 1979 when MGM neglected to > renew the > > copyright. > > I disagree. I am certain there are many people who would > prefer to pay more for a higher quality edition of the same > movie. I know I would. > There are some who would, but not enough to make it worth the expense. As you know, I work for a company that is in this business and if we thought for a moment that there was money in releasing high quality versions of public domain titles where we own the original negatives (and there is a long list of such titles where we do own those negatives) then we would have done it yesterday. You are free to disagree all you want, but this won't change the reality that companies won't spend money to lose money, meaning that there are virtually no remastered versions of public domain titles, and the quality of most of what is out there will remain crap. -W From cb at mythtech.net Sat Jan 18 22:08:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: Apple 1 schematics Message-ID: >I've been thinking about this very project for sometime. The main problems >that I came up with are: > 1. certain parts are difficult to find > 2. ROM source and/or binary image availability > 3. re-creating the pc boards This site has what might be a dump of the ROM. I don't really know, but the name implies it. -chris From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Jan 18 22:14:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <32863.64.169.63.74.1042922493.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <002a01c2bf71$b8de6ef0$9842cd18@D73KSM11> > Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > Often it simply isn't worth it to build upon something unless you > > enjoy exclusive rights. The restoration of old films is a good > > example. The studios that hold copyrights to old pictures > spend huge > > amounts of money to restore the prints for issue in DVD format > > precisely because they hold exclusive rights and can make back what > > they spend. In the case of public domain films, this > simply doesn't > > happen. > > Demonstrably false. UCLA has restored many films that the > studios weren't willing to spend a penny on; some still in > copyright but most expired. In general they've done a much > better restoration job than the studios usually do. > Perhaps I need to write a bit more clearly. The antecedent for "this simply doesn't happen" in my post is "studios . . . spend huge amounts of money to restore the prints for issue in DVD format." UCLA, last time I looked, is not a studio. Academia is almost always an exception to any general rule. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Jan 18 22:17:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: Intellectual "PROPERTY" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002b01c2bf72$1f20b790$9842cd18@D73KSM11> > > I think you left out the part about the fact that we stole > the country > > from the Indians. > > Nope, we didn't steal it from the Indians. They were still > busy trading spices and stuff by the time North America was > discovered. > > No, we stole it from the indigenous peoples that were here > when the Pilgrims landed ;) > C'mon Sellam, we're all indigenous peoples -- some of us are just displaced! From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 18 22:23:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: "Piracy" (was: Unauthorized copying In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, chris wrote: > I seem to even recall a duplication program that I used to use that was > quite good at getting around copy protection, was called something like > "The Pirates Friend". I'd have to go thru old software floppies to > locate it and confirm the name, but I do think it used pirate in the > name. I have a copy of "The Pirate's Friend" in my Apple software boxes ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From acme at ao.net Sat Jan 18 22:32:00 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: Bunch of XT parts available Message-ID: <200301190435.XAA09233@eola.ao.net> From: No Junk Mail <3sdiarftt02@sneakemail.com> Date: 01/17/2003 0:10 AM > M card for my first XT. Was there ever a processor upgrade card for 8-bit ISA IIRC the SOTA 286 card was 8-bit. I had one kicking around in a junk bin at the shop but I think Joe Rigdon made off with it ;>) Joe -- is that board 8- or 16-bit? Later, Glen 0/0 From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 18 22:45:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:42 2005 Subject: Malcontents, Ill-manners, ClassicCmp, and Me! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK, I hope that pretentious title has baited enough people into this message. It's long, but bare with me. From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 18 22:51:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:44 2005 Subject: Apple 1 schematics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Tothwolf wrote: > The second and third problems may be slightly more difficult to overcome. > One option would be to find an Apple 1, dump the ROMs, carefully unsolder > all the parts and scan each side of the cleaned pc boards. The scanned > images can then be used to create gerber files. I personally don't have > the funds to go out and buy an Apple 1, and I don't know of anyone who > would give up one just for it to be taken to bits. I have dumps of the ROM, as do a bunch of other people. They were published in the manual, and the manual has been published to the web, so I'm certain other people have typed them in, and I've handed out copies of the ROM to a few people. > Another option for the second and third problems is to contact Woz and see > if he would be willing to help. I have so far restrained myself from > emailing him, since I know he gets tons and tons of emails, including > people asking him if he has an Apple 1 he could give them, etc. I'd > imagine Woz would very much like to see the Apple 1 preserved, but it > would probably take him quite a bit of time to find all the docs and info > that we'd need. I asked Woz, and he said as far as he knows, the original masks for the Apple-1 PC board no longer exist. A schematic would have to be made from an original board. Unsoldering the chips and sockets would be very intrusive and I doubt you'll find anyone willing to do that. Ideally there would be some other non-intrusive method. X-ray perhaps? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jan 18 22:52:02 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:44 2005 Subject: Bunch of XT parts available In-Reply-To: <200301190435.XAA09233@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: > > M card for my first XT. Was there ever a processor upgrade card for > 8-bit ISA IIRC, I had a couple of 8 bit ISA 386 cards. "PC Elevator"? From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Jan 18 22:53:01 2003 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:44 2005 Subject: Dear Santa, I would like a Yamaha CX5M ... In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Jan 18, 3 07:26:42 pm" Message-ID: <200301190506.VAA11020@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Anyone ever seen someone out there trying to get rid of a Yamaha CX5M? It's > > about the only MSX machine I have significant curiosity about due to its > > specialised music abilities. > > Yes, and I helped them get rid of it by taking it away for them ;) Darn. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- TODAY'S DUMB TRUE HEADLINE: Plane Too Close to Ground, Crash Probe Told ---- From aw288 at osfn.org Sat Jan 18 22:56:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:44 2005 Subject: SV: SV: IBM system 3 Re: PDP-12 on eBay (IBM 650 on ebay) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > The rumor says that Peter Löthberg www.stupi.se have taken care of them and > stored them in a warehouse north of Stockholm. Another rumor tell that at > least one of the big 10s was actually shipped from the US.. > > http://susning.nu/KATIA > > The picture on this webpage (in swedish) should picture a KA10 at Stacken. I > actually think that Peter is sitting in front of the terminal. No offense, but that picture looks so old, I would not consider it anything like the "concrete" evidence I am looking for. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jcwren at jcwren.com Sat Jan 18 23:03:00 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:44 2005 Subject: Apple 1 schematics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000401c2bf78$8db38b50$020010ac@k4jcw> Since this is a single sided board, as far as components go, the bottom side would be easy. Scan it. The top side would be harder, but given that the majority of the parts are .3" wide, with the schematic, a lot of the routing can be inferred. And while I haven't looked closely at an Apple I board, the trace widths should be pretty wide, by todays standards. So by doing an overlay, and perhaps using some bright lights for manual verification, it seems that very near replica could be made. Yes, it would be nice to have some bare cards, and dup them. But was everyone says, I doubt that anyone will sacrifce an Apple I to the cause, and I'm almost of the opinion that if they were willing, they should be greviously injured. So is a near replica good enough? --John From aw288 at osfn.org Sat Jan 18 23:06:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:44 2005 Subject: Too many EPROMs update Message-ID: Thanks for those that checked in - I will see what I can make of the orders. For those wanting 27C1024s - no special price - .25 each (two bits per lots of bits), 6 for a buck. For those wanting 2708s - $1 each. For those wanting 1702s - $2 each. Sorry, no 2704s. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 19 00:46:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:44 2005 Subject: Too many EPROMs update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030119064918.59900.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- William Donzelli wrote: > Thanks for those that checked in - I will see what I can make of the > orders. > > For those wanting 27C1024s - no special price - .25 each (two bits per > lots of bits), 6 for a buck. Have any 4Mbit EPROMs? Didn't think you had ultra-new stuff. Need to upgrade the firmware in my Apex DVD player. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From jss at subatomix.com Sun Jan 19 01:15:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:44 2005 Subject: OT: Crazy C Problem Message-ID: <12821585448.20030119011837@subatomix.com> I'm testing the code I've written to spamproof the ClassicCmp web site and archives. I call the system SpamCamo. The file filter works great and produces links as it should. The CGI program is not behaving and is giving me some *very* wierd behavior. I'm stumped. First, if I compile with this: $ cc -o spamcamo.cgi cgi.c spamcamo.cgi.c -lcipher I get a "Bus error (core dumped)" exception from the first statement in my program, which is printf("DEBUG: 0\n"). I have used gdb to verify this, and it tells me that SIGBUS is occuring inside isatty() in libc. Now, if I compile like this, switching the order of the source files but making NO changes to the source files themselves: $ cc -o spamcamo.cgi spamcamo.cgi.c cgi.c -lcipher The program proceeds to the first call of strdup(), which returns NULL and sets errno to EINVAL. strdup() is definitely receiving a valid string. Furthermore, malloc(1) (as in "allocate one byte") in the same place also fails with EINVAL. The machine is not low on memory. Even furthermore, the code that is failing in this case (in cgi.c) works correctly when compiled against a test program (proof: http://www.subatomix.com/test_cgi.cgi?a=b) instead of spamcamo.cgi.c. This is what the program does (i.e. not much) before calling strdup(): printf() function call function call getenv() return strcmp() funcion call getenv() return strdup() <--- SIGBUS occurs here I get the same results on two FreeBSD boxen. One is running 4.5-RELEASE and the other is running 4.6-STABLE. I'd like to think this is something I've done wrong and not a bug in libc. Any ideas? -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Sun Jan 19 01:22:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:44 2005 Subject: Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? In-Reply-To: <017001c2bf05$b96d6090$020010ac@k4jcw> References: <017001c2bf05$b96d6090$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <6322010739.20030119012543@subatomix.com> On Saturday, January 18, 2003, J.C.Wren wrote: > Say WHAT? There are dozens of music programs for the PC Yup. I wrote and published music for my grade school and high school bands using a 486, WfW 3.11, and a program called Finale. Even then, Finale was industrial strength. It handled everything from regular ol' clarinet or trumpet music to drum parts to guitar tablature. -- Jeffrey Sharp From frustum at pacbell.net Sun Jan 19 01:47:42 2003 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:44 2005 Subject: Apple 1 schematics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030118232749.01de3150@postoffice.pacbell.net> At 08:51 PM 1/18/03 -0800, Sellam Ismail wrote: >On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Tothwolf wrote: > >... (re: Apple 1 schematics) >I asked Woz, and he said as far as he knows, the original masks for the >Apple-1 PC board no longer exist. > >A schematic would have to be made from an original board. Unsoldering the >chips and sockets would be very intrusive and I doubt you'll find anyone >willing to do that. Ideally there would be some other non-intrusive >method. X-ray perhaps? All you need are your eyes, an ohmmeter, and a lot of patience. I have reverse engineered some double sided PC boards from my Wang 2200. I have a lot more to go before I recreate all the schematics. This is the procedure I have used so far. I create a drawing of the board and all the chips, including pin numbers. Then I pick up the board and start with a pin or connector. I ferret out all the devices/pins on that net by just looking at it (on the back). Any time you get to a via or other through hole, you must check the top to see if it goes anywhere on top. Even though the chip obscures part of the tracework on top, you can still make out some of it from the back (especially with the right lighting), and if that fails, just buzz out all pins of the chip and any traces that pop out from under the chip (this is pretty easy on the Wang since there is no soldermask -- you can buzz out a trace anywhere). Once you know everything on a net, double check it by buzzing it out again, then check off all of those pins/connectors/devices on the diagram. Then pick another pin and see what it is connected to. Then the next bit of fun is taking your netlist and turning it into a coherent schematic. Here is a pretty regular board -- it is the microcode store for a Wang 2200-T CPU. It took about ten hours to buzz everything out and build a schematic. The board diagram (a copy of which I used to make sure I hit all the pins): http://www.thebattles.net/wang/2200tech/7025-outline.pdf The recreated schematic: http://www.thebattles.net/wang/2200tech/7025-sch-p1.pdf I have the printer interface card & schematic online too, and I have the netlist for one of the three cards that implement the CPU. I haven't had any time in the past few months to push this project along, but I hope to get all of the CPU done some day. If there had been any buried layers, it would have been much harder -- hard enough that I wouldn't consider investing the time trying to figure it out. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Jan 19 02:03:31 2003 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:44 2005 Subject: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? In-Reply-To: <1042913239.31345.14.camel@crusader> Message-ID: <3304CEEC-2B83-11D7-B3F1-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Saturday, January 18, 2003, at 01:07 PM, David Holland wrote: > I'd also be interested if anyone has interfaced a Sun Type 5 mouse to > it, as they look like they use the same protocol, just one is +5v > logic, > the other is RS232? (Maxim's MAX232's sound vaguely useful, but > they're > hard to find around here in 1sie 2sie counts) Around where? You can order them from places like Mouser Electronics in single quantities. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Jan 19 02:19:31 2003 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:44 2005 Subject: Got the second batch of -11 equipment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <943793EE-2B85-11D7-B3F1-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Saturday, January 18, 2003, at 05:50 PM, Witchy wrote: >> The top door latch on an RL drive is locked by a solenoid. Apply >> power to the drive, make sure the "load" button is out, wait for a >> "click" (the load light will come on) then you should be able to >> squeeze that little slide handle and open the top cover. > > There should be a small 2x1 panel on the side of the drive under where > the > latch is - take this panel off and you'll be able to open the lid by > manually moving the lock. ...on some drives. I have two RL drives here that don't have the little release hatch. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols From rob at indefinite.freeserve.co.uk Sun Jan 19 02:20:32 2003 From: rob at indefinite.freeserve.co.uk (Rob) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:44 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3E28A43E.8746.141F5D75@localhost> References: <004301c2becb$c9ba6630$513bcd18@D73KSM11> <200301172005.PAA01624@conman.org> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030117101102.02d095d8@pop.freeserve.net> At 00:47 18/01/2003 -0800, Scarletdown wrote: >Perhaps I'm in a tiny minority here, but if such a work did get >posted for free download, I would eventually buy the hard copy >anyway. Afterall, I frequently like to take a book or magazine >outside with me to read when I step out to smoke (and an American >Spirit or Dunhill can take 10 minutes or so to go through.) It would >be very impractical and silly to try to haul my PC out to the yard in >order to read an e-document during these downtimes. Likewise, >reading in bed or in the bathtub, or on the bus, or on the ferry, or >at the laundromat requires hardcopy as well. :) > >I've been mentally compiling some other thoughts on this topic over >the past few days, and may post them later. :p > >-- Scarletdown No, you're not in the minority. I would estimate that since I had the ability to download mp3s and such like, I have bought *more* music CDs, and I have *definitely* bought more DVDs since having had DSL and the opportunity to download and watch the films first. First Harry Potter, for instance. Downloaded it, went to the cinema to watch it properly, (full family trip, ?15 or so [$23]) and ended up buying the official DVD. Twice; one for the mother-in-law. This is not an isolated incident.. Conversely, have also downloaded and watched/listened/read stuff that we decided was total crap, and been glad we'd not spent the money on it. As far as books go, there is no substitute for a proper paper manual. It really annoys me all the stuff we buy at work that comes with a CD full of PDFs instead. Even with the laptop, it's a major pain in the proverbial if you want to look something up when, say, out on site and you want to tweak the settings no a router. From freddy at kotelna.sk Sun Jan 19 02:21:28 2003 From: freddy at kotelna.sk (Adrien Farkas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:44 2005 Subject: VMS command question and help, off-topic In-Reply-To: <000401c2bee2$7a5851d0$cb87fe3e@athlon> References: <20030117185224.GA733@kotol.kotelna.sk> <000401c2bee2$7a5851d0$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: <20030118122747.GA6819@kotol.kotelna.sk> Antonio Carlini (arcarlini@iee.org) wrote : > Can you zip it up so it's easier to download? didn't help very much, http://www.kotelna.sk/freddy/multia_v72.bck.gz (913652 bytes), along with the original http://www.kotelna.sk/freddy/multia_v72.bck are there. thanks very much, -- freddy ...for more info 'finger freddy@kotol.kotelna.sk' From fdebros at verizon.net Sun Jan 19 02:22:24 2003 From: fdebros at verizon.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:44 2005 Subject: Musings on BabyVAX video In-Reply-To: <000101c2be72$342340f0$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: <002601c2bf07$12a00b30$6401a8c0@fred> I'm pretty sure that a VS3100-76 with no graphics board *will* come up using onboard monochrome (use the green signal). I don't think I've ever actually used one this way, but I do know that the GPX and SPX options came with a little stick-on panel that said either "GPX" or "SPX" in about the right size and font to stick right after the "VAXstation 3100 M76" nameplate. Mine does and it is just a matter on which pin you pick it up in the back of the box! I'd have to go to my office to ck it again. Fred From mhstein at canada.com Sun Jan 19 02:23:20 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:44 2005 Subject: Archived digests? Message-ID: <01C2BEE3.F8B8A7E0@mse-d03> Thanks muchly, Jeffrey! The problem was that the archive list on the main page only goes up to Nov. 2001, but these URLs did the trick. m -----------------Original Message----------------- Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 22:08:32 -0600 From: Jeffrey Sharp On Thursday, January 16, 2003, M H Stein wrote: > with the previous system I could retrieve the missed messages, but am > apparently too dense to figure out how with the present system. Help? http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/ http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/ -- Jeffrey Sharp From mhstein at canada.com Sun Jan 19 02:24:16 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:44 2005 Subject: PET 2001 oddity Message-ID: <01C2BEF5.B62777A0@mse-d03> Ethan: thanks for the info; I've never seen a dynamic RAM 2001N, although a friend of mine home-brewed a static > dynamic conversion. 4032s of course, but I take it you're talking about a real small-B/W-screen 2001. I sometimes toy with the idea of building a PET using modern chips; shouldn't be too big a deal (very low on my to-do list though). Adrian: Was working on adding my .02 to the discussion, but read on and saw that you're in business. If you can't find any locally, I've got several tubes of 2114s here in frosty Canada. And they are used in pairs because they're only 4 bits wide (x 1K). One of my PETs, with an MTU graphics board, is dead as well; this discussion just might motivate me to have a look at it. Good luck! mike From mhstein at canada.com Sun Jan 19 02:25:25 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:44 2005 Subject: PerSci Model 277 Dual 8" Floppy Drives - Info Needed Message-ID: <01C2BEF5.C1C6EE60@mse-d03> ---------------------Original Message------------------------- From: "Tim Myers" To: Subject: PerSci Model 277 Dual 8" Floppy Drives - Info Needed Does anyone have any info on these drives? I have some in a CP/M system (Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1), and they seem completely dead. They have an electric load mechanism, but when I insert a disk, nothing happens. Popped the case and can't see anything obviously out of place. Tim. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cromemco used these in early models of the System 3; not exactly the most reliable. Sorry to say, I scrapped several of them a year ago and, although I've got manuals for most Cromemco stuff I don't think I've got any docs on these. But I'll have a look and let you know if I find anything. Meanwhile, there are probably several people on this list who have them and could perhaps at least compare notes with ya. They are getting power? Good luck, mike From mhstein at canada.com Sun Jan 19 02:26:22 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:44 2005 Subject: Ampro cards Message-ID: <01C2BEF5.BA25CE60@mse-d03> ------------------Original Message------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 21:59:52 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org From: Joe Subject: Ampro cards Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org I recently picked up two Ampro computer cards. I think they're PC/104 cards but I'm not positive. Your A60707 is the CoreModule XT Plus (CPU card). The other board is the MiniModule FSS, which is Floppy/SCSI/Serial controller. Does anyone have manuals for them? Ampro has a website but there's nothing on there about these cards and Ampro tech support hasn't been any help beyond id'ing the cards. Joe ------------------------------------------------------------- Haven't got that $1000 for ya, Joe, but I do have a pile of Ampro docs somewhere & maybe the name of a contact, and yes, they are almost definitely PC104. Don't hold your breath, & I probably haven't got anything on those particular boards, but I'll keep my eyes open. mike From mhstein at canada.com Sun Jan 19 02:27:19 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:45 2005 Subject: T&B Ansley IDC connectors Message-ID: <01C2BEF5.BE0BBB20@mse-d03> ---------------Original Message--------------- Subject: T&B Ansley IDC connectors From: "Jeffrey H. Ingber" Date: 17 Jan 2003 19:17:20 -0500 Does anyone know where I can aquire the T&B ansley "light blue" IDC ribbon cable connectors that were used by MITS? Googling reveals that Tyco purchased this line of connectors in 2001, but I can't find any mention of T&B Ansley on their web site. Thanks, Jeff ------------------------------------------------------- Used to use a lot of these & have a few left; Exactly which ones are you looking for? mike From vance at neurotica.com Sun Jan 19 02:28:15 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:45 2005 Subject: MCA Fast Ethernet Cards Message-ID: Would the people who wanted the PS/2 100Mbps ethernet cards send me an email? I have access to them now and can ship soon. Peace... Sridhar From subsolar at subsolar.org Sun Jan 19 02:29:11 2003 From: subsolar at subsolar.org (Paul) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:45 2005 Subject: (OT) Re: "Piracy" (was: Unauthorized copying In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1042928008.2021.4.camel@azure.subsolar> On Sat, 2003-01-18 at 12:39, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > > Unauthorized copying is, under some (but not all) > > > cirucumstances, illegal and/or unethical, but it is NOT > > > theft. It is a different sort of offsense. > > I believe that the commonly applied term is "piracy." > > It is commonly believed that the very first time that unauthorized copying > of software was called "PIRACY" was the open letter by Bill Gates. > > Does anybody have an earlier referrent? Since when does copying some data equate to boarding a ship, raping & killing the passengers and crew, and sinking it? I though that is the first use of the term in reference to copyright infringement. Paul piracy \Pi"ra*cy\, n.; pl. Piracies. [Cf. LL. piratia, Gr. ?. See Pirate.] 1. The act or crime of a pirate. 2. (Common Law) Robbery on the high seas; the taking of property from others on the open sea by open violence; without lawful authority, and with intent to steal; -- a crime answering to robbery on land. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Jan 19 02:30:09 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:45 2005 Subject: Got the second batch of -11 equipment In-Reply-To: <04D857B2-2B30-11D7-B3F1-000393970B96@neurotica.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Dave McGuire > Sent: 18 January 2003 21:59 > To: mrbill@mrbill.net; cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Got the second batch of -11 equipment > > > On Saturday, January 18, 2003, at 04:11 PM, Bill Bradford wrote: > > Anybody want two RL02s (by the way, how the hell do I get the top > > covers > > open? The "switch" on the top wont budge), and two RL01s? Pickup in > > Austin, Texas.. > > The top door latch on an RL drive is locked by a solenoid. Apply > power to the drive, make sure the "load" button is out, wait for a > "click" (the load light will come on) then you should be able to > squeeze that little slide handle and open the top cover. There should be a small 2x1 panel on the side of the drive under where the latch is - take this panel off and you'll be able to open the lid by manually moving the lock. -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From A.Gabston-Howell at EnigmaOne.com Sun Jan 19 02:31:08 2003 From: A.Gabston-Howell at EnigmaOne.com (Allan Gabston-Howell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:45 2005 Subject: INRE: XT Motherboard Message-ID: <200301181628.42502@e1.H-PRIME.EnigmaOne.com> I *can't* believe I'm actually doing this.....I'm in a situation wherein I need the MB, if you still have it. How's it outfitted? uP and memory, is what I'm thinking of; and does it have the standard 8-expansion slot count? If you still have it, please do let me know, and I'll get back with you quickly. Unfortunately, time is pushing me in this situation. Also, if you *happen* to have a CGA video adapter with at least RGB DB-9 output, composite out (RCA) would be cool, but not necessary. I'd like to get ahold of it at the same time. -- Allan Gabston-Howell "Be wary of any school of thought whose very name is an oxymoron. They're telling you up front that they intend to travel on square wheels." From mhstein at canada.com Sun Jan 19 02:32:07 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:45 2005 Subject: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips Message-ID: <01C2BF32.0EAA3160@mse-d03> ----------------Original Message------------------ From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Subject: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 23:31:33 +0000 (GMT) Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org I'm fixing some old HP computer hardware (a 9830 computer and its 9866 thermal printer), and I've come up against a few ICs I don't have pinouts for :-(. If anyone has them, could they fill in the tables below : Fairchild 9311 (4 bit -> 16 line decoder?) 1 : O/ 2 : 1/ 3 : 2/ 4 : 3/ 5 : 4/ 6 : 5/ 7 : 6/ 8 : 7/ 9 : 8/ 10 : 9/ 11 :10/ 12 : Gnd 13 : 11/ 14 : 12/ 15 : 13/ 16 : 14/ 17 : 15/ 18 : E0/ 19 : E1/ 20 : A3 21 : A2 22 : A1 23 : A0 24 : Vcc Fairchild 93L14 (latch?) 1 : ENABLE/ 2 : SET 0/ 3 : D0 4 : D1 5 : SET 2/ 6 : D2 7 : D3 8 : Gnd 9 : MASTER RESET/ 10 : Q3 11 : SET 3/ 12 : Q2 13 : Q1 14 : SET 1/ 15 : Q0 16 : Vcc Signetics 8273 (10 bit serial-in, parallel out shift register) 1 : Q6 2 : Q7 3 : Q8 4 : Q9 5 : Q10 6 : Clk/ 1 7 : Clk 2 8 : Gnd 9 : Clr/ 10 : Serial In 11 : Q1 12 : Q2 13 : Q3 14 : Q4 15 : Q5 16 : Vcc Note: The unused Clock performs the INHIBIT function. --------------------------------------------- Thanks in advance for any help -tony --------------------------------------------- You are MOST welcome; delighted to have an opportunity to repay you for the many times you've helped us. Let me know if you need detailed tech data; I have the Fairchild Data and Application Books and the Signetics Data Book. I even have a fair bit of 9300 ICs, but alas, no 9311s and only the regular power 9314. Probably no 8273s but I can have a look. Good luck & thanks again for all YOUR help! mike From kirk at access.pptnet.com Sun Jan 19 02:33:05 2003 From: kirk at access.pptnet.com (Kirk Barrett) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:45 2005 Subject: AM100 Emulator Message-ID: <4B5917EAB218DB4E9AE9AE08515C7D0A012F3783@rhino.pptnet.com> Mike, Thank you! This is incredible. I can't believe you wrote an AM100 emulator, and not only that, HOW FAST you've done it. It works great, too! This is just fabulous. I cannot believe my eyes. I can't wait for the 1.0 release! Is this a pure hobby for you? I am a 16 year coder, and i gotta say, i am 100% humbled by your work. This is just amazing. I am a huge AM fan and OASYS (old theos) for Z80 fan. I have Theos, but i sold my old am100 w/ 2 cdc hawks years ago (and believe me - i am pissed beyond reproach that i did that!!! ) Nice work, mike! Kirk Barrett PPT -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030119/e364cce4/attachment.html From spc at conman.org Sun Jan 19 02:50:01 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:45 2005 Subject: DOS 1.0 In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Jan 18, 2003 09:53:42 PM Message-ID: <200301190852.DAA09401@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Tothwolf once stated: > > I use 'joe' constantly myself. It's my day to day editor for editing > source code. I have used vi and vim somewhat, but I've honestly not yet > taken the time to learn vi as well as I should. I'm sure I must be missing > out by not using vi (well, thats what other software developers tell me), > but joe is fast and does what I need it to. I too use joe (since I first came across it in '93 or '94) for most of my editing needs, such as email, documents and source code. I do know vi, but only because that's a constant on any Unix work station I come across, and I know enough of vi where for making editing changes, it's faster than joe. My favorite editor though, ie PE v1.0 (from IBM). Never found a bug (unless you consider certain limitations bugs) in that program. Ever. -spc (Never bothered to learn emacs ... ) From tim.myers at sunplan.com Sun Jan 19 02:56:01 2003 From: tim.myers at sunplan.com (Tim Myers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:45 2005 Subject: PerSci Model 277 Dual 8" Floppy Drives - Info Needed In-Reply-To: <01C2BEF5.C1C6EE60@mse-d03> Message-ID: <005701c2bf99$af29aa00$5b76033e@local.sunplan.com> > But I'll have a look and let you know if I find anything. > Meanwhile, there are probably several people on this list who > have them and could perhaps at least compare notes with ya. > They are getting power? I don't know what the PSU is supposed to deliver to them (no helpful silkscreen voltage markings on either the PSU or the main board), but they seem to be getting +12v. My guess is that +5v (or whatever that's derived from) is down, but without any info whatsoever I'm shooting in the dark. Tim. From jss at subatomix.com Sun Jan 19 03:02:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:45 2005 Subject: OT: Crazy C Problem In-Reply-To: <12821585448.20030119011837@subatomix.com> References: <12821585448.20030119011837@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <10428022564.20030119030554@subatomix.com> BTW, the code in question can be seen at: http://www.subatomix.com/etc/spamcamo/ On Sunday, January 19, 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > I'm testing the code I've written to spamproof the ClassicCmp web site and > archives. I call the system SpamCamo. The file filter works great and > produces links as it should. The CGI program is not behaving and is giving > me some *very* wierd behavior. I'm stumped. > > First, if I compile with this: > > $ cc -o spamcamo.cgi cgi.c spamcamo.cgi.c -lcipher > > I get a "Bus error (core dumped)" exception from the first statement in my > program, which is printf("DEBUG: 0\n"). I have used gdb to verify this, > and it tells me that SIGBUS is occuring inside isatty() in libc. > > Now, if I compile like this, switching the order of the source files but > making NO changes to the source files themselves: > > $ cc -o spamcamo.cgi spamcamo.cgi.c cgi.c -lcipher > > The program proceeds to the first call of strdup(), which returns NULL and > sets errno to EINVAL. strdup() is definitely receiving a valid string. > Furthermore, malloc(1) (as in "allocate one byte") in the same place also > fails with EINVAL. The machine is not low on memory. Even furthermore, the > code that is failing in this case (in cgi.c) works correctly when compiled > against a test program (proof: http://www.subatomix.com/test_cgi.cgi?a=b) > instead of spamcamo.cgi.c. This is what the program does (i.e. not much) > before calling strdup(): > > printf() > function call > function call > getenv() > return > strcmp() > funcion call > getenv() > return > strdup() <--- SIGBUS occurs here > > I get the same results on two FreeBSD boxen. One is running 4.5-RELEASE and > the other is running 4.6-STABLE. I'd like to think this is something I've > done wrong and not a bug in libc. Any ideas? -- Jeffrey Sharp From spc at conman.org Sun Jan 19 03:03:08 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:45 2005 Subject: OT: Crazy C Problem In-Reply-To: <12821585448.20030119011837@subatomix.com> from "Jeffrey Sharp" at Jan 19, 2003 01:18:37 AM Message-ID: <200301190905.EAA09487@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Jeffrey Sharp once stated: > > I'm testing the code I've written to spamproof the ClassicCmp web site and > archives. I call the system SpamCamo. The file filter works great and > produces links as it should. The CGI program is not behaving and is giving > me some *very* wierd behavior. I'm stumped. > > I get the same results on two FreeBSD boxen. One is running 4.5-RELEASE and > the other is running 4.6-STABLE. I'd like to think this is something I've > done wrong and not a bug in libc. Any ideas? Hard to say without seeing the code. I do have a library I wrote (in C, GPLed) that handles CGI requests that has an *extensive* debugging facility built in you could use (I can even supply sample CGI programs) that I've used on multiple Unix platforms (IRIX, Linux (Intel and DEC Alpha---actually found a libc bug on the DEC Alpha with my code), OpenBSD---not sure about FreeBSD but it should compile fine). Conversely if you want, I can take a look at the code and possibly figure out what's wrong (I do have access to Linux on Intel and DEC Alpha, OpenBSD and Solaris 8x (and maybe HP-UX 10.20 in a day or two)). That might actually isolate the problem to FreeBSD (or your code). -spc (Have C compiler, will code) From spc at conman.org Sun Jan 19 03:05:01 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:45 2005 Subject: DOS 1.0 In-Reply-To: <200301190852.DAA09401@conman.org> from "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" at Jan 19, 2003 03:52:50 AM Message-ID: <200301190906.EAA09497@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner once stated: > > My favorite editor though, ie PE v1.0 (from IBM). Never found a bug > (unless you consider certain limitations bugs) in that program. Ever. And oddly enough (just now noticed the subject line) PE 1.0 *will* run under MS-DOS 1.0. -spc (Wish I had it under Unix ... ) From jss at subatomix.com Sun Jan 19 03:17:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:45 2005 Subject: Archived digests? In-Reply-To: <01C2BEE3.F8B8A7E0@mse-d03> References: <01C2BEE3.F8B8A7E0@mse-d03> Message-ID: <17228878965.20030119032011@subatomix.com> On Saturday, January 18, 2003, M H Stein wrote: > The problem was that the archive list on the main page only goes up to > Nov. 2001, but these URLs did the trick. You have to click on the cctalk and cctech links to go to the list-specific pages. The list-specific archives are linked there. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Sun Jan 19 03:35:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:45 2005 Subject: OT: Crazy C Problem In-Reply-To: <10428022564.20030119030554@subatomix.com> References: <12821585448.20030119011837@subatomix.com> <10428022564.20030119030554@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <6930007748.20030119033900@subatomix.com> Ladies and gentleman, we have a winner. Thanks, Kevin! Kevin Schoedel wrote (privately): > OK, having now seen the code, I suspect the problem is that you have a > function called end(). 'end' has traditionally been used by Unix systems > for the address of the end of program memory. (I'm not sure where you'll > find this documented -- maybe under ld(1).) This would explain the > different results when you compile (and link) in a different order -- > different memory is corrupted depending on where your end() appears. -- Jeffrey Sharp From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sun Jan 19 03:50:01 2003 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:45 2005 Subject: New classic In-Reply-To: <000401c2bf26$afa5b410$0e03a8c0@prime> Message-ID: I hit this website (http://c64upgra.de/c-one/) and read up on this thing, then wrote e-mail asking a couple questions. This project also seems to have the nicest people involved, particularly the person doing most/all of the engineering. I'm reminded once again of the difference between the apparent friendliness of the c64 community and the usually vicious and self destructive Apple2 community (which I payed attention to from about 96 to when my father got his iMac and it no longer mattered to me.) It's strange the communities that build up around specific micros. Anyway, I'm likely going to buy one of these c-1 boards when they come out, if for no other reason than to get rid of a few old monitors in my basement. On Saturday, January 18, 2003, at 12:20 PM, Gareth Knight wrote: > http://c64upgra.de/c-one/s_pictures.htm > First pictures of the CommodoreOne pre-production board are now online: > ""the pictures section has been extended by 11 pictures of the > pre-production board. Basic testing has already been done, all chips > are > responding positively to diagnostic access. A 100% test procedure will > be > developed this weekend." > -- > Gareth Knight > Amiga Interactive Guide | Team *AMIGA* member > http://amiga.emugaming.com | http://www.amigau.com/aig/index.html > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Jan 19 05:09:01 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:45 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn Message-ID: <20030119111245.60796.qmail@web21103.mail.yahoo.com> Pete, > Well, someone else has offered to copy Disc 1 for me. I've also found a > few other people who have ARM Evaluation Systems, so once I get a good Disc > 1, I'll put the set of six on my website (and if anyone from any of the > Beeb sites wants to make a copy, that's fine by me). Any suggestions as to > format to use for the images? I expect you know far more about this than I do! "Pete's own undocumented image format" is probably not a good idea :-) Other than that anything that has some supporting documentation available would seem sensible - it'll always be possible to convert between formats then. I get lost trying to remember all the issues regarding writing to discs in different machines (wish there was a website that collected all that information together, for various platforms) - I can't for the life of me remember if it's possible to write to beeb discs with a PC, which would probably be my preferred option. My BBC Master can emulate an XT so maybe there's something on that side that can take a PC format 5.25 disc and write out to a beeb disc. I have no idea... I'm more concerned about the disc set being archived somewhere than delving in and playing around with my ARM unit now though - same goes for other systems. I've already got machines that are non-runners at present because the software has gone and is unobtainable :-( > so 50 or 100 seem likely > numbers for the quantity of ARM Development Kits made to fit Beebs. hmm, mine was pretty late then if they did only make 50. Mine came from Kent uni; I have no idea what it was doing there, but the same place sourced quite a few bits of beeb equipment. Maybe they did some official product testing or something. cheers Jules __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From avickers at solutionengineers.com Sun Jan 19 05:26:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:45 2005 Subject: Dear Santa, I would like a Yamaha CX5M ... In-Reply-To: <200301190218.SAA11558@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030119112853.01814ce8@slave> At 02:18 19/01/2003, you wrote: >Anyone ever seen someone out there trying to get rid of a Yamaha CX5M? Isn't that a motorbike of some kind? ;) > It's >about the only MSX machine I have significant curiosity about due to its >specialised music abilities. It still sounds like a motorbike.... -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Jan 19 05:42:01 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:45 2005 Subject: Apple 1 schematics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Tothwolf wrote: > > > Another option for the second and third problems is to contact Woz and > > see if he would be willing to help. I have so far restrained myself > > from emailing him, since I know he gets tons and tons of emails, > > including people asking him if he has an Apple 1 he could give them, > > etc. I'd imagine Woz would very much like to see the Apple 1 > > preserved, but it would probably take him quite a bit of time to find > > all the docs and info that we'd need. > > I asked Woz, and he said as far as he knows, the original masks for the > Apple-1 PC board no longer exist. Sad. Maybe one day some will turn up. Of course, that will be the day after reproduction boards come back from the fab shop... > A schematic would have to be made from an original board. Unsoldering > the chips and sockets would be very intrusive and I doubt you'll find > anyone willing to do that. Ideally there would be some other > non-intrusive method. X-ray perhaps? Any traces that go underneath components won't show up well on an X-ray (well, from what I've seen anyway). DIP component leads don't end at the edges of the package, so it tends block the image. There are X-ray viewing systems intended for SMT and BGA work that might work for some things, but they cost a small fortune. I'm probably one of the few that would be willing to take such a board to bits (but I also mentioned that before). Of course, that would be *after* I get myself a Metcal MX500 and DS1 ;) -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Jan 19 05:46:01 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:45 2005 Subject: Apple 1 schematics In-Reply-To: <000401c2bf78$8db38b50$020010ac@k4jcw> References: <000401c2bf78$8db38b50$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, J.C.Wren wrote: > Since this is a single sided board, as far as components go, the bottom > side would be easy. Scan it. The top side would be harder, but given > that the majority of the parts are .3" wide, with the schematic, a lot > of the routing can be inferred. And while I haven't looked closely at > an Apple I board, the trace widths should be pretty wide, by todays > standards. So by doing an overlay, and perhaps using some bright lights > for manual verification, it seems that very near replica could be made. I thought the PC board was double sided? > Yes, it would be nice to have some bare cards, and dup them. But was > everyone says, I doubt that anyone will sacrifce an Apple I to the > cause, and I'm almost of the opinion that if they were willing, they > should be greviously injured. Well, I'd take one to bits, but of course, I'd eventually end up reassembling it. Such a shame that the current market value of an Apple I puts it out of reach though... -Toth From joe_web at worldonline.fr Sun Jan 19 05:56:37 2003 From: joe_web at worldonline.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=EBl_Weber?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:45 2005 Subject: Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? References: <20030118134046.20983.qmail@web9305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002d01c2bfb2$d4657ce0$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> hello, i want to open a museum, do you want give me this computer? joe_web@worldonline.fr ----- Original Message ----- From: Kenneth Donchatz To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 2:40 PM Subject: Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? I have a 13 year old apple macintosh that works like a dream. It's loaded with programs, and this great little machine got me through law school and helped me launch my career. When my employer switched over to a compaq system, I could no longer use this machine to work on projects at home and was forced to pick up an etower package instead. For the last 5 years, it's sat in my basement waiting. Everything works perfectly, including the printer, and all of the parts are original. Any tips on where I might take this machine so that it can be used? It's a shame to let it sit here and rot. Ken Donchatz kendonchatz@yahoo.com Columbus, Ohio ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030119/236a804a/attachment.html From arcarlini at iee.org Sun Jan 19 06:30:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:45 2005 Subject: VMS command question and help, off-topic In-Reply-To: <20030118122747.GA6819@kotol.kotelna.sk> Message-ID: <000a01c2bfb6$eb0d0f90$cb87fe3e@athlon> > Antonio Carlini (arcarlini@iee.org) wrote : > > > Can you zip it up so it's easier to download? > > didn't help very much, http://www.kotelna.sk/freddy/multia_v72.bck.gz > (913652 bytes), along with the original > http://www.kotelna.sk/freddy/multia_v72.bck > are there. I didn't mean to make it smaller - I just didn't want it to download as a text file. ZIP files download correctly, other random stuff depends on the server settings (IIRC). Anyway, I managed to get it using a download manager and I've managed to restore it to a floppy. I don't have a Multia so I won't be able to test it. I can either dig out rawread or try using dd on my Solaris box - just let me know which you would find easiest to deal with (and the exact dd command you would prefer, if that matters). I can email the result or ftp it to you if you have a server. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sun Jan 19 06:33:01 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:45 2005 Subject: VMS command question and help, off-topic Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C91C@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> i do have a multia ... what needs to be done? --f > -----Original Message----- > From: Antonio Carlini [mailto:arcarlini@iee.org] > Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 1:33 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: VMS command question and help, off-topic > > > > Antonio Carlini (arcarlini@iee.org) wrote : > > > > > Can you zip it up so it's easier to download? > > > > didn't help very much, > http://www.kotelna.sk/freddy/multia_v72.bck.gz > > (913652 bytes), along with the original > > http://www.kotelna.sk/freddy/multia_v72.bck > are there. > > I didn't mean to make it smaller - I just didn't > want it to download as a text file. ZIP files > download correctly, other random stuff depends > on the server settings (IIRC). > > Anyway, I managed to get it using a download > manager and I've managed to restore it to > a floppy. I don't have a Multia so I won't > be able to test it. I can either dig out > rawread or try using dd on my Solaris > box - just let me know which you would > find easiest to deal with (and the exact dd > command you would prefer, if that matters). > > I can email the result or ftp it to you > if you have a server. > > Antonio > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > > From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Jan 19 07:43:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:45 2005 Subject: RK07 repairable? In-Reply-To: References: <20030118091552.S57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20030119131649.GA3602@ickis.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Sat, Jan 18, 2003 at 11:17:59PM +0000, Tony Duell wrote: > That sounds like the 11/34 supply... Ahh, can't wait for the machine to arrive. Uhh. Have to clear the kitchen to make room for it this evening... :-) > > > So they're not as dangerous to work on as most SMPSUs. > > Well, I have a isolating transformer... > For once you'll not need it. I know. I spoke in general: If I had to use a isolating transformer, I have one. There is that dead BA23 and SGI 4D35 PSU that I need to repair also. It would be a good idea to use the isolating transformer when doing this. > > Hmm. I have no clue about SMPSUs. Good reason to learn more about them. > These ones are _very_ simple,and use almost standard circuits. Sounds promising. -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From foo at siconic.com Sun Jan 19 08:07:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:45 2005 Subject: Apple 1 schematics In-Reply-To: <000401c2bf78$8db38b50$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, J.C.Wren wrote: > Since this is a single sided board, as far as components go, the I assume you mean single layer? > bottom side would be easy. Scan it. The top side would be harder, but > given that the majority of the parts are .3" wide, with the schematic, a > lot of the routing can be inferred. And while I haven't looked closely > at an Apple I board, the trace widths should be pretty wide, by todays > standards. So by doing an overlay, and perhaps using some bright lights > for manual verification, it seems that very near replica could be made. Check out these photos: http://vintage.org/special/apple-1/apple-1-front.jpg http://vintage.org/special/apple-1/apple-1-rear.jpg From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jan 19 08:09:01 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:47 2005 Subject: HP 2100 cpu plea References: <004a01c2bcd4$0a6253e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3E2AB318.10309@tiac.net> Hmmm, Last I heard, your memory section was flakey. Now the I/O system is not working? What exactly is the problem? I've never been impressed with the HP2100A's, but we should be able to figure out whats wrong and fix it. The biggest problem is going to be finding replacement chips, as much of the machine is not TTL. But if we can narrow it down to a board or chip, I think we can get your CPU running again. Jay West wrote: >Ok folks, I'm officially desperate. I can't figure out what is wrong with >the 2100 IOP cpu memory section on my 2000/Access system. So, just thought >I'd post this to the list....forgive my begging, it isn't pretty *Grin* > >Anyone have a working HP 2100 cpu available? I will pay real $$$ at this >point, or trade probably just about anything I have for one. If anyone has >one they will sell, or trade for, or give away to a place (me) that will >actually use it and not throw it on a shelf, I would like to know. I'd also >welcome any leads as to where one might be stored, etc. Or, as an >alternative, if anyone has a magical device that will instantly transfer all >of Tony Duell's repair knowledge and ability to my brain, that might work ;) > >FYI - I need either a 2100A or 2100S cpu. Don't need or want any 21MX or >1000 type cpus. > >Thanks! > > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From foo at siconic.com Sun Jan 19 08:12:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: OT: Crazy C Problem In-Reply-To: <12821585448.20030119011837@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > I get the same results on two FreeBSD boxen. One is running 4.5-RELEASE > and the other is running 4.6-STABLE. I'd like to think this is something > I've done wrong and not a bug in libc. Any ideas? I would have to speculate that it's definitely something specific to your box. Perhaps you have a bad install of gcc? Perhaps there's something wierd in spamcamo.cgi? In either compile case, this file comes first. Maybe it's affecting the subsequent compiles? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jan 19 08:19:01 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: HP 2100 cpu plea References: <002701c2bd20$c8183cf0$6501a8c0@az> <1042699025.2159.30.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <3E2AB588.9060402@tiac.net> I currently have a 2114A, 2114B, 2115A, 2116B, and a 2116C. Saddly, on Christmas day, my 2114A lost a filter cap, and needs repair. This is the same 2114A that took second place at VCF East 1.0. In the non-core memory HP department, I also have several (but not enough!) 2113's. Guy Sotomayor wrote: >On Wed, 2003-01-15 at 21:33, Bill McDermith wrote: > >>Jay, >> >>I have two but they are non-operating at the moment (2100A/2100S). >>Do you have access to the documentation/prints for it? (I do, just >>wondering if you need them...) I have a persistent parity problem >>with one that I think is simply the +30V threshold needing attention. >>The other I'm not sure exactly what's wrong... >> >>I would be happy to trade for some of the other arcana that I need >>to get a working system, If that would help. What area of the country >>are you located in? >> > >The first computer that I learned to program on was an HP 2114A. Anyone >know where I could locate one (or a 2115 or 2116)? > >Thanks. > From foo at siconic.com Sun Jan 19 08:21:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: AM100 Emulator In-Reply-To: <4B5917EAB218DB4E9AE9AE08515C7D0A012F3783@rhino.pptnet.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, Kirk Barrett wrote: > amazing. I am a huge AM fan and OASYS (old theos) for Z80 fan. I have > Theos, but i sold my old am100 w/ 2 cdc hawks years ago (and believe me > - i am pissed beyond reproach that i did that!!! ) I have a copy of OASYS that I got with my first S100 boxes in the late 1980s. Unfortunately, I hosed the original copy somehow but I still have a backup I believe. It seemed like an interesting OS but didn't really get a chance to play with it all that much. What's THEOS? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Jan 19 08:45:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: HP 2100 cpu plea References: <004a01c2bcd4$0a6253e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3E2AB318.10309@tiac.net> Message-ID: <011901c2bfc9$b5218600$033310ac@kwcorp.com> No, the I/O system is fine, it's just the memory section that is flaky. When I said IOP I meant the I/O processor, meaning the other 2100 cpu in the system (2000/Access uses two cpu's, one called the "system" cpu, the other called the "I/O Processor" or "IOP" cpu. Both are regular 2100 cpu's. Just so happens the system cpu on mine is a 2100A, the IOP cpu is a 2100S. And, it's the 2100S that has bizarre memory problems. I'm not that great with electronics... but I'm at my wits end. Spent so much time on it I can't seem to see the forest for the trees. Hell I don't even know where to start now. I have checked the PS levels, and they seem fine. But what I have never checked is ripple on the power supply outputs, I think core memory can get rather touchy about that. I think you just hook your probe to the output and set AC coupling mode to see just the AC component, and look to see how far the ripplyness swings off the baseline? That may be the simple thing to check first. *sigh* I dunno. I do have the complete diagrams manual for the system which includes schematics, but not enough electronics ability to really make use of it. So how goes things in your world? Was the job hunt ever fruitfull? What's your current classic computer projects these days, yours are always interesting! I haven't forgotten about that 11/34a up there either... just looking for the right time to work that out if you're still willing. Thanks for any advice on the 2100! Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Shannon" To: Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 8:15 AM Subject: Re: HP 2100 cpu plea > Hmmm, > > Last I heard, your memory section was flakey. Now the I/O system is not > working? > > What exactly is the problem? > > I've never been impressed with the HP2100A's, but we should be able to > figure out whats wrong > and fix it. > > The biggest problem is going to be finding replacement chips, as much of > the machine is not TTL. But if we > can narrow it down to a board or chip, I think we can get your CPU > running again. > > Jay West wrote: > > >Ok folks, I'm officially desperate. I can't figure out what is wrong with > >the 2100 IOP cpu memory section on my 2000/Access system. So, just thought > >I'd post this to the list....forgive my begging, it isn't pretty *Grin* > > > >Anyone have a working HP 2100 cpu available? I will pay real $$$ at this > >point, or trade probably just about anything I have for one. If anyone has > >one they will sell, or trade for, or give away to a place (me) that will > >actually use it and not throw it on a shelf, I would like to know. I'd also > >welcome any leads as to where one might be stored, etc. Or, as an > >alternative, if anyone has a magical device that will instantly transfer all > >of Tony Duell's repair knowledge and ability to my brain, that might work ;) > > > >FYI - I need either a 2100A or 2100S cpu. Don't need or want any 21MX or > >1000 type cpus. > > > >Thanks! > > > > > >--- > >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > > > > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jan 19 08:48:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: HP 2100 cpu plea References: <006901c2bd8e$df5831e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3E2ABC34.5030503@tiac.net> Hmmm, just what do we think a working 2116 would fetch on eBay? Jay West wrote: >Sellam wrote... > >>You just haven't offered him enough $$$ I guess. >> > >Nah, he's probably gotten wind of ebay prices I bet *ROTF* > >Jay West >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From simona at 428wilson.com Sun Jan 19 08:50:01 2003 From: simona at 428wilson.com (Simon Allaway) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? In-Reply-To: <3E2A07DF.4080306@eoni.com> References: <017001c2bf05$b96d6090$020010ac@k4jcw> <3E2A07DF.4080306@eoni.com> Message-ID: <3E2ABBCE.7020002@428wilson.com> Jim Arnott wrote: > They also say, "Windows don't do music > composition." What Windows programs score from MIDI? I use a product called Sonar XL. Made by Cakewalk. You can even compose directly on the score. It's helped me learn music theory I forgot twenty years ago. Simon From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jan 19 08:54:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: BBC Micro - assemblers - info needed In-Reply-To: "Philip Pemberton" "BBC Micro - assemblers - info needed" (Jan 18, 16:16) References: <01ac01c2bf0c$fb942ce0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <10301191443.ZM27616@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 18, 16:16, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Finally, does anyone know how some discs were formatted so they were > compatible with 40-track and 80-track disc drives? The way Acorn did that with things like the Master 128 Welcome Disc was to make all the directory entries (on track 0) point to tracks between 5 and 9, and 20 and 39. Track 20 on a 48-tpi drive is where track 40 would be on a 96-tpi drive: 96tpi 0 5 9 19 20 39 40 59 60 79 | | | | | | | D |X| |XXXXXXXXX| | | |__|_|____|_________|_________|_________| | | | | | | D |xxxx| |xxxxxxxxx|xxxxxxxxx| | | | | | | 48tpi 0 4 5 9 10 19 20 29 30 39 So you need to format parts of the disk as if they're 40-track and parts as if they're 80-track. Start by formatting the disk normally, at the density-of-your-choice. Next, write some dummy files that will occupy exactly tracks 0 (less the directory area) to 4, 5 to 9, and 9 to 19, and then delete the dummy that is in the space 9 to 19. You only need to do this for one density, thankfully, as the object is just to get the right placeholders in the space map. Then write the real data. Switch densities, format the tracks that need to be the alternate density (Disc Doctor can do this), and write the real files again. You may need to do the second set of writes with raw disk access, as IIRC ADFS will "overwrite" a file by writing a new version andf then deleting the old one -- which is not what you want because it will use the wrong space! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From dholland at woh.rr.com Sun Jan 19 08:54:58 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? In-Reply-To: <3304CEEC-2B83-11D7-B3F1-000393970B96@neurotica.com> References: <3304CEEC-2B83-11D7-B3F1-000393970B96@neurotica.com> Message-ID: <1042988565.22895.8.camel@crusader> Dayton, Ohio. I was trying to find them locally.. Buddy of mine, and I are going to end up pooling our order and send one into Jameco.. David Sun, 2003-01-19 at 02:54, Dave McGuire wrote: > On Saturday, January 18, 2003, at 01:07 PM, David Holland wrote: > > I'd also be interested if anyone has interfaced a Sun Type 5 mouse to > > it, as they look like they use the same protocol, just one is +5v > > logic, > > the other is RS232? (Maxim's MAX232's sound vaguely useful, but > > they're > > hard to find around here in 1sie 2sie counts) > > Around where? You can order them from places like Mouser Electronics > in single quantities. > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." > St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols > From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Jan 19 08:56:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: HP 2100 cpu plea References: <006901c2bd8e$df5831e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3E2ABC34.5030503@tiac.net> Message-ID: <014501c2bfcb$155bcfc0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Well, it WAS done about a year ago or so. Crisis took one of their 2116 systems and refurbed it. It was absolutely cherry. And then they put it on ebay to see how it would do. I can't remember the final sale price, but I THINK it was around $1500 maybe. Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Shannon" To: Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 8:54 AM Subject: Re: HP 2100 cpu plea > Hmmm, just what do we think a working 2116 would fetch on eBay? > > Jay West wrote: > > >Sellam wrote... > > > >>You just haven't offered him enough $$$ I guess. > >> > > > >Nah, he's probably gotten wind of ebay prices I bet *ROTF* > > > >Jay West > >--- > >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > > > > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jan 19 08:59:01 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: HP 2100 cpu plea References: <002701c2bd20$c8183cf0$6501a8c0@az> <1042699025.2159.30.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> <016501c2bd66$886c2da0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3E272225.3020906@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <3E2ABEE0.1040301@tiac.net> So, are you running HP-IP/OS on it, or offering it to Jay for the restoration of HP2000 Access? John Honniball wrote: > Jay West wrote: > >> Yes, actually, I know where there is an absolutely pristine mint HP2116 >> system, totally decked out with every card and option one could ever >> want. >> An equally mint ASR33 is attached to it. It's about a 10 minute drive >> from >> my house. > > > There's a rather complete 2100 system about 5 minutes' drive from my > house, at the HP Labs where I work (Bristol). Hidden away in storage, > at the moment. Oh, and then there's the 2100S in my garage. > > -- > John Honniball > coredump@gifford.co.uk > > From foo at siconic.com Sun Jan 19 09:02:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: HP 2100 cpu plea In-Reply-To: <3E2ABC34.5030503@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, Bob Shannon wrote: > Hmmm, just what do we think a working 2116 would fetch on eBay? A pretty considerable sum I would imagine ($1000 < 2116 < $2000, more or less, depending on documentation, peripherals, etc.). There are enough HP old iron enthusiasts out there to bid it up. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jcwren at jcwren.com Sun Jan 19 09:39:00 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: Apple 1 schematics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001c01c2bfd1$67404310$020010ac@k4jcw> No, I meant that the board only has components on one side, unlike a few custom through-hole boards I've seen, and more and more surface mount type boards. I wonder what CAD system they used to lay it out with. --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Sellam Ismail > Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 09:07 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Apple 1 schematics > > > On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, J.C.Wren wrote: > > > Since this is a single sided board, as far as components go, the > > I assume you mean single layer? > > > bottom side would be easy. Scan it. The top side would be > harder, but > > given that the majority of the parts are .3" wide, with the > schematic, a > > lot of the routing can be inferred. And while I haven't > looked closely > > at an Apple I board, the trace widths should be pretty > wide, by todays > > standards. So by doing an overlay, and perhaps using some > bright lights > > for manual verification, it seems that very near replica > could be made. > > Check out these photos: > > http://vintage.org/special/apple-1/apple-1-front.jpg > http://vintage.org/special/apple-1/apple-1-rear.jpg > > >From the front photo you can see that the connecting traces are very > tight. However, within proximity of the ICs, they are > inferable, but it's > not always obvious. I know this because I've looked at an > Apple-1 a few > times and pondered how challenging it would be to discern the traces > undeather sockets. If you look at the socket on the far left of the > board, right above the Apple Computer 1 wording, you'll see > what most (if > not all) of the sockets on the board look like. There's no way to see > underneath without removing the socket. > > All that being said, I imagine with a close scrutiny of the board and > cross-referencing it with the schematics, one can acrruately make the > necessary inferences. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pcw at mesanet.com Sun Jan 19 10:10:00 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: Apple 1 schematics In-Reply-To: <001c01c2bfd1$67404310$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, J.C.Wren wrote: > No, I meant that the board only has components on one side, unlike a few > custom through-hole boards I've seen, and more and more surface mount type > boards. > > I wonder what CAD system they used to lay it out with. > > --John CAD system? Most likely hand taped at that time... Ah yes, Bishop Graphics decals and puppets, black .032" tape, Exacto knives, Mylar overlays... Brings back memories (and nightmares) PCW From dholland at woh.rr.com Sun Jan 19 10:12:00 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? In-Reply-To: <10301182240.ZM26806@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <1042913239.31345.14.camel@crusader> <10301182240.ZM26806@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <1042993165.28221.2.camel@crusader> On Sat, 2003-01-18 at 17:40, pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: >snip< > I think Brian may have meant Onyx2, which is basically an Origin2000 with a > shedload (or at least half a rack's worth) of graphics engine. Crimsons > and Power Series are certainly on-topic here. Kewl. > > > (The optical mouse I have for it is in too bad a shape to be really > > usable anymore - the felts shot, and it sticks to the metal plate/mouse > > pad too much for my tastes.) > > Why can't you clean it, and replace the felt? I could. (And probably will at some point) But then I'd still be using a optical mouse with plate I don't like. Acutally, what I'd like to do is plug my 20$ Logitech Optical mouse (no plate) into it, but somehow or another, I don't expect to see USB on a Crimson anytime soon. David > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York From dholland at woh.rr.com Sun Jan 19 10:16:01 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: SGI Discussions? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1042993512.28221.9.camel@crusader> Yup. That was the page I stumbled across a while ago that made me think it was possible. The reason I suspect it might be possible is I dug up the Mouse Systems mouse protocol specifications (Which apparently the SGI proprietary mouse uses), then dug up the Solaris8 mouse driver code, and looked at it. The driver source looked like it implemented the mouse systems protocol. I'll have to go see if my buddy submitted that order or no, and see what comes of my theory.... (Prolly a lot of nothing, but eh... Its interesting to give it a whirl, and it doesn't cost much.) Nobody commented on my Reality Engine question.... Anyone at least know what a reasonable price tag is these days, so I can even know if its within the budget....? Thanks, David On Sat, 2003-01-18 at 17:49, JP Hindin wrote: > > > introduction to SGI equipment came around 1994 or so. > > The SGI Crimson uses the same proprietary mouse/keyboard as the Indigo and > its predecessors, the power series and other personal iris'. The Onyx uses > the PS/2 keyb/mice like the Indy. > > You can convert other early SGI keyboard/mice to work with an Indigo (and > thusly, Crimson)... Requires some pinout fiddling. > You can also convert a Sun-3 mouse to work as an Indigo mouse, however I > don't believe any keyboards which exist by other makes can be converted. > > If you google for 'This Old SGI' you will find some info about the earlier > SGIs keyboard/mice, which may be able to help you. > > JP > From univac2 at earthlink.net Sun Jan 19 10:41:00 2003 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? In-Reply-To: <6322010739.20030119012543@subatomix.com> Message-ID: on 1/19/03 1:25 AM, Jeffrey Sharp at jss@subatomix.com wrote: > On Saturday, January 18, 2003, J.C.Wren wrote: >> Say WHAT? There are dozens of music programs for the PC > > Yup. I wrote and published music for my grade school and high school bands > using a 486, WfW 3.11, and a program called Finale. Even then, Finale was > industrial strength. It handled everything from regular ol' clarinet or > trumpet music to drum parts to guitar tablature. My Jr. High band director used that. I saw a copy at Half Priced Books the other day for the Mac. I remember some friends of mine and I setting up an Alpha Four (Five?) database of all the music in the band library. Back then I spent many an hour volunteering in the band hall. But I have very fond memories of Tandy's Deskmate "Sound" and "Music" programs. I loved to play with those. Was so happy my parents spent the extra money and got the (then) top of the line SL/2, which was one of the ones that had the Sound and Music programs. Ah, simpler times... -- Owen Robertson From jcwren at jcwren.com Sun Jan 19 10:50:01 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: Apple 1 schematics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001e01c2bfdb$4f550470$020010ac@k4jcw> You think? I've not held an Apple I board in my hands, but looking at the routing, I don't see any of the characteristics marks of a hand layout. The tracks are too even, and way they're run horizontally is a hallmark of early routing assistance algorithms. --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Peter C. Wallace > Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 11:13 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Apple 1 schematics > > > On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, J.C.Wren wrote: > > > No, I meant that the board only has components on one > side, unlike a few > > custom through-hole boards I've seen, and more and more > surface mount type > > boards. > > > > I wonder what CAD system they used to lay it out with. > > > > --John > > > CAD system? Most likely hand taped at that time... > > Ah yes, Bishop Graphics decals and puppets, black .032" tape, > Exacto knives, > Mylar overlays... Brings back memories (and nightmares) > > PCW > > > From jrasite at eoni.com Sun Jan 19 10:57:00 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? References: <017001c2bf05$b96d6090$020010ac@k4jcw> <3E2A07DF.4080306@eoni.com> <3E2ABBCE.7020002@428wilson.com> Message-ID: <3E2AD9B6.6030302@eoni.com> Thanks all. I stand corrected. (But the original poster might still want to contact his local school's music department.) Jim Simon Allaway wrote: > Jim Arnott wrote: > >> They also say, "Windows don't do music composition." What Windows >> programs score from MIDI? > > > I use a product called Sonar XL. Made by Cakewalk. You can even compose > directly on the score. It's helped me learn music theory I forgot twenty > years ago. > > Simon > > > . > From jplist at kiwigeek.com Sun Jan 19 11:58:00 2003 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: SGI Discussions? In-Reply-To: <1042993512.28221.9.camel@crusader> Message-ID: On 19 Jan 2003, David Holland wrote: > The reason I suspect it might be possible is I dug up the Mouse Systems > mouse protocol specifications (Which apparently the SGI proprietary > mouse uses), then dug up the Solaris8 mouse driver code, and looked at > it. The driver source looked like it implemented the mouse systems > protocol. Although I don't have the proper MouseSystems mouse for my Indigo (I bought it sans keyb/mouse, sigh), I do have a Type-3 mouse for my Sun 386i which is, for intents and purposes, pretty much identical to the MouseSystems optical mouse I use on my linux workstation... I guess MouseSystems must have made mice for all manner of machine applications. Good for them I suppose. JP From msell at ontimesupport.com Sun Jan 19 12:10:01 2003 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: Malcontents, Ill-manners, ClassicCmp, and Me! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030119120929.02b66c10@127.0.0.1> Sellam, Thanks for the clarifications. As a conservative Republican who voted for both Bushes, and will vote for this one again, and as a Texan, .... I was wondering about your style of humor. ppppfffffttttttt ..... back at 'ya. : ) And for those of you who can't take that virtual raspberry that I sent - don't even bother trying to change my views. You won't ever succeed. But if you want to argue Commodore vs. Atari - that's a different story. Atari is better. : ) - Matt From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 19 12:20:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: PET 2001 oddity In-Reply-To: <01C2BEF5.B62777A0@mse-d03> Message-ID: <20030119182306.74325.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- M H Stein wrote: > Ethan: thanks for the info; I've never seen a > dynamic RAM 2001N, although a friend of mine > home-brewed a static > dynamic conversion. > 4032s of course, but I take it you're talking > about a real small-B/W-screen 2001. Yep. BASIC 2.0, no CRTC, 16 x 4116, full-sized graphic keyboard. I recently found out that mine was somewhat unusual. It has a low serial number (under 500, not counting prefix numbers), and I don't think they made too many of them. I got it nearly new (customer return to the dealer in the first 90 days) around 1978/1979 for about $1,100, including a C2N tape drive. Up until recently, the only things I have had to fix were worn keys from too much space invaders ($35 for a replacement PCB in 1980) and the $C000 ROM died on me a few years ago. Lately, the whole thing has been flakey and I'm about to remove all the 40 and 28 pin sockets and replace them with machined-pin ones. This is the one that I used to verify that my port of Zork from the C-64 to the PET was mostly successful. I still have a bug or two to iron out relating to how the editor firmware links lines together. > I sometimes toy with the idea of building > a PET using modern chips; shouldn't be too > big a deal (very low on my to-do list though). I have thought of that as well... Embedding the entire video circuit in an FPGA wouldn't be too hard. Given the size, though, embedding the PIAs and VIAs might be handy, too, but that's a lot of pins, and it's not like they aren't available still. Way too much work for me, though. > One of my PETs, with an MTU graphics board, > is dead as well; this discussion just might > motivate me to have a look at it. I always wanted one, but never could afford it. Not sure what I would have done with it, so I guess it's probably for the best that I spent my money/effort elsewhere 20 years ago. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From pcw at mesanet.com Sun Jan 19 12:32:00 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: Apple 1 schematics In-Reply-To: <001e01c2bfdb$4f550470$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, J.C.Wren wrote: > You think? I've not held an Apple I board in my hands, but looking at the > routing, I don't see any of the characteristics marks of a hand layout. The > tracks are too even, and way they're run horizontally is a hallmark of early > routing assistance algorithms. > > --John I have held one in my hands (when they were selling kits at the entance to the Homebrew computer club - thats been a while) The time frame alone pretty much suggests a hand layout... I would have guessed that Wozniac taped it up himself. Also hand layouts can be very even because they were typically reduced 2X or even 4X and were layed out on a light table over an alignment grid. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > Behalf Of Peter C. Wallace > > Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 11:13 > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: RE: Apple 1 schematics > > > > > > On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, J.C.Wren wrote: > > > > > No, I meant that the board only has components on one > > side, unlike a few > > > custom through-hole boards I've seen, and more and more > > surface mount type > > > boards. > > > > > > I wonder what CAD system they used to lay it out with. > > > > > > --John > > > > > > CAD system? Most likely hand taped at that time... > > > > Ah yes, Bishop Graphics decals and puppets, black .032" tape, > > Exacto knives, > > Mylar overlays... Brings back memories (and nightmares) > > > > PCW > > > > > > > > > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From arcarlini at iee.org Sun Jan 19 12:42:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030119015902.00b5daf0@slave> Message-ID: <000301c2bfea$f694baf0$cb87fe3e@athlon> >That's the one - and blimey, it's jumped nearly >?21 since I looked (it was at ?5.19). Given its speed, it's still a bargain. >Frankly, the 8800 is too big, but that is too small... Then I guess you need to aim for one of the VAX 4000 series, but shipping on those will be pretty expensive. >What is the best place to get them from? It's not something I can see >popping up on eBay every 10 mins... RRD CDrOM drives to crop up, but only every now and then. If you are willing to ship from the US, there are some available now. Otherwise you can try the resellers. Swan seem to have some in stock, but no price is listed: http://www.applegate.co.uk/click?http://www.swancomp.co.uk Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From marvin at rain.org Sun Jan 19 12:51:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: Apple 1 schematics References: Message-ID: <3E2AF44C.7BED020B@rain.org> Sellam Ismail wrote: > > >From the front photo you can see that the connecting traces are very > tight. However, within proximity of the ICs, they are inferable, but it's > not always obvious. I know this because I've looked at an Apple-1 a few > times and pondered how challenging it would be to discern the traces > undeather sockets. If you look at the socket on the far left of the > board, right above the Apple Computer 1 wording, you'll see what most (if > not all) of the sockets on the board look like. There's no way to see > underneath without removing the socket. A bright light on the component side of the board shining at the IC in question will sometimes allow the component side traces to be seen. I really can't imagine the Apple I board being hard to reverse engineer althought it would take some time to do it. From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jan 19 13:00:01 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: HP 2100 cpu plea References: <004a01c2bcd4$0a6253e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3E2AB318.10309@tiac.net> <011901c2bfc9$b5218600$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3E2AF75B.6040804@tiac.net> Oh yes, check the ripple FIRST! I've strongly reccomended this to you before, its essential. If the filter caps are really weak, you may see the ripple even with your scope set for DC coupling. This will of course appear as a low-amplitude sine wave riding ontop of the DC voltage. You can keep increasing the vertical gain, and moving the trace downwards (for a positive supply voltage) so your only looking at the AC component. But at some point, you will run out of vertical position adjustment control range to keep the display on-screen. At this point you must use AC coupling to increase the vertical gain. Flakey core memory that does not have bad bits or addresses is most commonly due to incorrect power supply voltages or current limit adjustments. Ripple in the memory supply voltages falls into this general catagory. If your less than comfortable with the scope measurments on a linear power supply, you can try temporarily adding an external filter cap in parallel, but this is often inconclusive. See, if the original part is leaky, simply adding more capactiance may not eliminate the problem. But if the ripple is more due to a loss of capacitance than leakage (uncommon, but it happens) then adding the parallel capacitor will show a large reduction in the ripple. If this is the case, you must replace the original filter cap. If adding the external filter cap shows no reduction in measured ripple, then there is little question that the original part is leaky and needing replacement. So this generally less-than-ideal trick might shed some light in your particular case. Jay West wrote: >No, the I/O system is fine, it's just the memory section that is flaky. When >I said IOP I meant the I/O processor, meaning the other 2100 cpu in the >system (2000/Access uses two cpu's, one called the "system" cpu, the other >called the "I/O Processor" or "IOP" cpu. Both are regular 2100 cpu's. Just >so happens the system cpu on mine is a 2100A, the IOP cpu is a 2100S. And, >it's the 2100S that has bizarre memory problems. > >I'm not that great with electronics... but I'm at my wits end. Spent so much >time on it I can't seem to see the forest for the trees. Hell I don't even >know where to start now. I have checked the PS levels, and they seem fine. >But what I have never checked is ripple on the power supply outputs, I think >core memory can get rather touchy about that. I think you just hook your >probe to the output and set AC coupling mode to see just the AC component, >and look to see how far the ripplyness swings off the baseline? That may be >the simple thing to check first. *sigh* I dunno. I do have the complete >diagrams manual for the system which includes schematics, but not enough >electronics ability to really make use of it. > >So how goes things in your world? Was the job hunt ever fruitfull? What's >your current classic computer projects these days, yours are always >interesting! I haven't forgotten about that 11/34a up there either... just >looking for the right time to work that out if you're still willing. Thanks >for any advice on the 2100! > >Jay West >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Bob Shannon" >To: >Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 8:15 AM >Subject: Re: HP 2100 cpu plea > > >>Hmmm, >> >>Last I heard, your memory section was flakey. Now the I/O system is not >>working? >> >>What exactly is the problem? >> >>I've never been impressed with the HP2100A's, but we should be able to >>figure out whats wrong >>and fix it. >> >>The biggest problem is going to be finding replacement chips, as much of >>the machine is not TTL. But if we >>can narrow it down to a board or chip, I think we can get your CPU >>running again. >> >>Jay West wrote: >> >>>Ok folks, I'm officially desperate. I can't figure out what is wrong with >>>the 2100 IOP cpu memory section on my 2000/Access system. So, just >>> >thought > >>>I'd post this to the list....forgive my begging, it isn't pretty *Grin* >>> >>>Anyone have a working HP 2100 cpu available? I will pay real $$$ at this >>>point, or trade probably just about anything I have for one. If anyone >>> >has > >>>one they will sell, or trade for, or give away to a place (me) that will >>>actually use it and not throw it on a shelf, I would like to know. I'd >>> >also > >>>welcome any leads as to where one might be stored, etc. Or, as an >>>alternative, if anyone has a magical device that will instantly transfer >>> >all > >>>of Tony Duell's repair knowledge and ability to my brain, that might work >>> >;) > >>>FYI - I need either a 2100A or 2100S cpu. Don't need or want any 21MX or >>>1000 type cpus. >>> >>>Thanks! >>> >>> >>>--- >>>[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] >>> >>> >> >> > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From marvin at rain.org Sun Jan 19 13:06:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: HP 2100 cpu plea References: <004a01c2bcd4$0a6253e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3E2AB318.10309@tiac.net> <011901c2bfc9$b5218600$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3E2AF75B.6040804@tiac.net> Message-ID: <3E2AF7EA.4F2A7F1C@rain.org> Bob Shannon wrote: > > Oh yes, check the ripple FIRST! > > I've strongly reccomended this to you before, its essential. > > If the filter caps are really weak, you may see the ripple even with > your scope set for DC coupling. A fast and easy way of checking for ripple is to just use your DVM set to AC Volts across the DC line. From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jan 19 13:24:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: SGI Discussions? In-Reply-To: References: <1042913239.31345.14.camel@crusader> Message-ID: >On 18 Jan 2003, David Holland wrote: > >> Wot about SGI Crimson's? (Or in my case, a Power Series frame, w/ >> Crimson boards in it) Or are they too new (and LARGE :-) ) for the >> list? > >Pfft! You call that large!? There are plenty of folks on this list >who'd mock the relatively dainty size of the SGI Power Series frames. >There are people on the list with IBM mainframes, PDP-10s, big VAXen, >and a few Crays. No, I call that to large for me. It would take away space from what little room I have for my PDP-11's and VAXen :^) I for one will stick with systems such as the O2 and Octane when it comes to SGI! Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jwest at imail.kwcorp.com Sun Jan 19 13:33:00 2003 From: jwest at imail.kwcorp.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: OOPS!! Message-ID: <012101c2bfc9$cdc88f00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Sorry folks, that was meant to be private *sigh* --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jwest at imail.kwcorp.com Sun Jan 19 13:33:59 2003 From: jwest at imail.kwcorp.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: Manuals becoming available via web (M4, Pick) and general pick info Message-ID: <007301c2bfea$33341920$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I had posted a while back about the manuals for M4 and Pick that I had just come across in the basement. Bruce Ray has agreed to scan them and make them available to people. Now that I'm packing them up to be sent to him, thought I'd post a more clear list as to what I have... M4 Data 1/2 tape drive diagnostics quick reference M4 Data 1/2 tape drive optional SCSI controller jumper/switch reference M4 Data 1/2 tape drive 9900 series field service manual Microdata Reality Assembly Language Reference Manual: This is the original definitive work, written by Dick and Chandru. Often called "The Rainbow Book" because of the color scheme on the front. A LOT of the nuances of the Pick Assembly environment were never really documented in later manuals from other vendors. Many of these nuances were absolutely essential to even write a simple program. The other vendors all stole the basic text of this book and reworked it. However, most of them left out many things that are critical, and most of those things ARE in this manual. I recall that most Pick Assembler programmers kept two books on their shelf. The assembly manual for whatever vendor they were using, AND this one. The progression of machines microdata put out was the Reality, Reality Royale, Sequel, Series 18, and Spirit (all that I recall). All of this hardware was of their own design (but I think they bought the M1600 cpu for reality from elsewhere). Ultimate Computer Systems Pick Assembler Manual: Ultimate was one of the few vendors who sold both firmware implementations and software implementations of Pick (referring to the translation between missionary and native instruction sets), so their assembler manual is quite interesting as it points out of lot of the differences between the two types of implementation. They called their pick operating system "Ultimate O/S". Their manual is probably the most complete for later implementations, because they still listed out process control block formats and such. The original rainbow book from micro data did this, but in later generations those formats changed very much - so this book's pcb format lists were about the only documentation of later generation (from other vendors too) internal structures. Ultimate released pick on "standard" hardware rather than building their own. I know I sold many systems based on PDP-11/03's, and Honeywell DPS-6's. I think I recall them releasing systems on Honeywell Bull too, a rebadged RS/6000 if memory serves. Oh yeah, and I remember doing the very first install of Ultimates version of Pick/370... Pick running on an IBM 4341, using two Series 1's as front end processors for terminal I/O... very cute system. It ran on top of VM, so you could literally have multiple Pick systems on the one machine. Ultimate Computer Systems Assembly Programming Notes: This is a 22 page handout... Ultimate gave it out as a "quick start" thing for pick programmers who were familiar with other vendors implementations but not ultimates. It also clarified a few things that weren't particularly clear in the original rainbow book. Alpha Microsystems Pick Open Architecture v1.3 Assembler Manual: Alpha Microsystems had a lot of different computer systems. I seem to recall they were more popular originally for an OS called AMOS, which was definitely not pick. I think they built their own computers originally, but I know most of the pick systems they came out with were 386/486 type machines, and they were not propietary, just off the shelf PC's. Well, except for the magical firmware board that kept you from running their pick version on just any old PC. They sold Pick R83, and Pick Open Architecture too. I can't recall what the big deal was about Open Architecture. I seem to recall it had something to do with being able to run in true protected mode with regards to the x86 chip. Their assembler manual, while being a bit skimpy, did happen to have a few nice tidbits of info in it that weren't obvious in other vendors manuals. That's the thing about Pick assembler - reading one manual you feel like something is left out, but by reading all the manuals available from all the different vendors, most of it came together. The rest was trial and error and digging through the OS source code (if you had it). General Automation 3.8 Assembly Changes: This is a set of notes, detailing for assembly programmers what they had to change in their software to make stuff written for prior than 3.8 release to run on 3.8 release. It has some particularly good info in it that is specific to GA implementations. General Automation 3.8 Assembler Manual: This is, somewhat unfortunately, a work in progress. Most of the Pick vendors/licensees restricted the use of the assembler to internal use only. There were two reasons for this - one, they considered even knowing the assembler a trade secret. Each vendor came out with their own modifications that they thought made their version of pick "better" than others, and they didn't want people knowing anything more than necessary about how they did it. The other reason was, the pick assembler was a totally unprotected programming environment. A small bug in your program would frequently destroy the entire system - it was a very "fragile" environment. Your code had to be very well behaved, and it had to follow strict guidelines for interfacing with other routines and the O/S itself. Of course, those guidelines weren't really documented anywhere at all, not even in the rainbow book. Nowhere did you generally find out that you couldn't use R12 when calling a particular system subroutine cause it used the contents as scratch, there was no memory or process protection, etc. This manual is somewhat odd in that GA finally "saw the light" that it was good to let 3rd party people enhance the OS with their own add-on software, for GA's own sake. So they took the Pick on the PC assembler manual and loaded it into a word processor and started to make all the changes necessary to make a new, fully documented assembler manual for GA's version of pick. This manual was printed in the middle of that effort. As a result, parts of it are very GA specific, but most of it is just a verbatim copy of the Pick on the PC manual (which I have somewhere, but haven't come across it yet). So, it's interesting as a "work in progress". GA's pick line was all software implementations, built around the MC68000. I remember models 1500, 2500, 3500, 5500, 7820, 8830, 2820, 3820, 1700, 1750. I'm sure I'm missing some. This was the vendor I had the most contact with, I still have a 1750 and a 2820 in my basement I need to get up and running. OMTI controller in them both :) I SEEM to recall a pertec to scsi interface in one, not sure. There is one manual I used to have but no longer do, so I'll throw up a hail-mary and see if anyone has it - I curse the day I lost it. It was the General Automation Firmware Executive manual, and documented the roms on the mainboard. It wasn't specific to pick, you could load programs in motorola S-record format from tape, etc. Any one have this perchance? Regards, Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jan 19 13:40:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: Apple 1 schematics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > I wonder what CAD system they used to lay it out with. > CAD system? Most likely hand taped at that time... > Ah yes, Bishop Graphics decals and puppets, black .032" tape, Exacto knives, > Mylar overlays... Brings back memories (and nightmares) D'ya mean that the Apple 1 was NOT designed with a Windows NT version of AutoCad? From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jan 19 13:58:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: (OT) Re: "Piracy" (was: Unauthorized copying In-Reply-To: <1042928008.2021.4.camel@azure.subsolar> Message-ID: > > It is commonly believed that the very first time that unauthorized copying > > of software was called "PIRACY" was the open letter by Bill Gates. > > Does anybody have an earlier referrent? On 18 Jan 2003, Paul wrote: > Since when does copying some data equate to boarding a ship, raping & > killing the passengers and crew, and sinking it? Are you asking US why Bill Gates would think so? Ask him. billg@microsoft.com > I though that is the first use of the term in reference to copyright > infringement. Except that it turns out that his Feb 1976 "open letter" does NOT use the word "piracy" after all. From dholland at woh.rr.com Sun Jan 19 14:13:00 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: SGI Discussions? In-Reply-To: References: <1042913239.31345.14.camel@crusader> Message-ID: <1043007744.28221.13.camel@crusader> :-) Its about as large as I'd want in a machine that lives in non-datacenter facilities. Besides, the 3yr old loves to stand in front if it and play with "his" computer. :-) David On Sun, 2003-01-19 at 14:27, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >On 18 Jan 2003, David Holland wrote: > > > >> Wot about SGI Crimson's? (Or in my case, a Power Series frame, w/ > >> Crimson boards in it) Or are they too new (and LARGE :-) ) for the > >> list? > > > >Pfft! You call that large!? There are plenty of folks on this list > >who'd mock the relatively dainty size of the SGI Power Series frames. > >There are people on the list with IBM mainframes, PDP-10s, big VAXen, > >and a few Crays. > > No, I call that to large for me. It would take away space from what little > room I have for my PDP-11's and VAXen :^) I for one will stick with > systems such as the O2 and Octane when it comes to SGI! > > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From pcw at mesanet.com Sun Jan 19 14:25:00 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: Apple 1 schematics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > I wonder what CAD system they used to lay it out with. > > CAD system? Most likely hand taped at that time... > > Ah yes, Bishop Graphics decals and puppets, black .032" tape, Exacto knives, > > Mylar overlays... Brings back memories (and nightmares) > > D'ya mean that the Apple 1 was NOT designed with a Windows NT version of > AutoCad? > > If CAD, More likely Racal Redac on a PDP11 or CALMA :-) Peter Wallace From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jan 19 14:33:01 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: VXT X terminal question [VR219 blues] In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FE00@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > I wrote: > > > Although I have both the M38 and M76 set up, I cant get the video > > part to work - tube (that is on a VXT2000 right now) doesn't seem > > to sync on either model. The M38 is standard, the M76 is the SPX > > model. Anyone have a clue? > Hmm. OK... I used the monitor (VR320) that was connected to my VXT2000, > and that seems to be a GPX tube. I dragged a (heavy !) VR219-D3 monitor > out of storage, and connected that. No go, either, _and_ it wont sync > either. Looks like that one is also GPX- its the old model, with the > "sync rate" select switch at the rear. I use an IBM Power17 for testing DEC and SGI graphics. It's very flexible as to sync & refresh rates, has a decent picture, and will do separate-sync, composite, SOG, or mono. Most multi-sync displays with 5-BNC connections will do all that. Doc From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jan 19 15:15:27 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: MICROS~1's ten programmers (was: "Piracy" (was: Unauthorize In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, chris wrote: > 2: His parting line in the letter: > "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers > and deluge the hobby market with good software ". > I just have to laugh when I read that. Well, he got the deluge part > right. :-) Microsoft's tenth hire was Bob Wallace. He left Microsoft about 1982 and started Quicksoft ("PC-Write"). He said that he wanted "to make a living, not a killing". He was the first to leave Microsoft with stock. He died in September 2002. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Jan 19 16:09:09 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: Got the second batch of -11 equipment In-Reply-To: <943793EE-2B85-11D7-B3F1-000393970B96@neurotica.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Dave McGuire > Sent: 19 January 2003 08:11 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Cc: mrbill@mrbill.net > Subject: Re: Got the second batch of -11 equipment > > > On Saturday, January 18, 2003, at 05:50 PM, Witchy wrote: > >> The top door latch on an RL drive is locked by a solenoid. Apply > >> power to the drive, make sure the "load" button is out, wait for a > >> "click" (the load light will come on) then you should be able to > >> squeeze that little slide handle and open the top cover. > > > > There should be a small 2x1 panel on the side of the drive under where > > the > > latch is - take this panel off and you'll be able to open the lid by > > manually moving the lock. > > ...on some drives. I have two RL drives here that don't have the > little release hatch. I didn't know that - all the drives I've come across in all me years working for VARs I've not come across a drive that didn't have the access panel. Are yours older drives? Maybe the panel was added later because getting the lid open without it is a right royal PITA....... and NOW I'm thinking 'if I know it's a pain to get the lid off without the panel maybe I DID see some drives without it' :) -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Jan 19 16:11:34 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Zane H. Healy > Sent: 19 January 2003 03:14 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... > > That's one nice VAX, I'm glad it's on the other side of the pond :^) > > >The DLT looks more like a TZ30 to me (still nice to have) and > > A good indication that it's a TZ30 is that it's a half-height drive. The > TZ30 is the only half-height drive that uses Compact-Tapes. It's definitely a TZ30 as that was the only DLT tape option for uVAXen. The thing that's puzzling me is the fact they've shoehorned an RX33 in there - I thought the 3100-10 was the only machine to have floppy capability...... I certainly never sold any and I don't remember it being an option for the bigger machines. Pity it's front cover is missing too, but for 20-odd quid I wouldn't complain :) -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From Pietje-Puk at gmx.net Sun Jan 19 16:14:00 2003 From: Pietje-Puk at gmx.net (Pietje Puk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? Message-ID: >Message: 28 >Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 23:13:38 -0600 >From: Jeffrey Sharp >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? >Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > >> You can't attach eMails to the list can you? > >Yes. If a message is accepted for deliver, it is delivered with only the >standard Mailman header modifications. No other filtering takes place. Of >course, we could do this now by piping messages through a filter before they >hit the Mailman posting script. Easy. > I am reading the list in digest-format. HTML and attachments are anoying in that list-format, therefore I would very much apreaciate a filter for HTML-parts of multi-part mails and attachments to be applied to a message before it is added to the digest. >What if ClassicCmp were a blog? If I had to choose between Web-access and mail-access, I would take the mail variant, as it is now. I like it. Thank you for providing the list! Frank Arnold From freddy at kotelna.sk Sun Jan 19 16:16:20 2003 From: freddy at kotelna.sk (Adrien Farkas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: VMS command question and help, off-topic In-Reply-To: <000a01c2bfb6$eb0d0f90$cb87fe3e@athlon> References: <20030118122747.GA6819@kotol.kotelna.sk> <000a01c2bfb6$eb0d0f90$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: <20030119195843.GB14575@kotol.kotelna.sk> Antonio Carlini (arcarlini@iee.org) wrote : > > Antonio Carlini (arcarlini@iee.org) wrote : > > > > > Can you zip it up so it's easier to download? > > > > didn't help very much, http://www.kotelna.sk/freddy/multia_v72.bck.gz > > (913652 bytes), along with the original > > http://www.kotelna.sk/freddy/multia_v72.bck > are there. > > I didn't mean to make it smaller - I just didn't > want it to download as a text file. ZIP files > download correctly, other random stuff depends > on the server settings (IIRC). > > Anyway, I managed to get it using a download > manager and I've managed to restore it to > a floppy. I don't have a Multia so I won't > be able to test it. I can either dig out > rawread or try using dd on my Solaris > box - just let me know which you would > find easiest to deal with (and the exact dd > command you would prefer, if that matters). dd method, please. > I can email the result or ftp it to you > if you have a server. can you please email me the result (freddy@kotelna.sk)? I have not ftp incoming set up. thanks in advance, -- freddy ...for more info 'finger freddy@kotol.kotelna.sk' From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Jan 19 16:18:48 2003 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: Got the second batch of -11 equipment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5C29D7D6-2BF4-11D7-B3F1-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Sunday, January 19, 2003, at 05:53 AM, Witchy wrote: >>> There should be a small 2x1 panel on the side of the drive under >>> where >>> the >>> latch is - take this panel off and you'll be able to open the lid by >>> manually moving the lock. >> >> ...on some drives. I have two RL drives here that don't have the >> little release hatch. > > I didn't know that - all the drives I've come across in all me years > working > for VARs I've not come across a drive that didn't have the access > panel. Are > yours older drives? Maybe the panel was added later because getting > the lid > open without it is a right royal PITA....... They might be. Next time I'm in one of those racks I'll check the manufacturing dates. > and NOW I'm thinking 'if I know it's a pain to get the lid off without > the > panel maybe I DID see some drives without it' :) Yeah...You can open the lid from a dead drive (or when it's inconvenient to get power to it) by unscrewing the rear top lid, lifting it up, and sliding it back a little bit. That is a real pain though. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Jan 19 16:21:19 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <002a01c2bf71$b8de6ef0$9842cd18@D73KSM11> References: <32863.64.169.63.74.1042922493.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <002a01c2bf71$b8de6ef0$9842cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <33299.64.169.63.74.1043013141.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> I wrote: >> Demonstrably false. UCLA has restored many films that the >> studios weren't willing to spend a penny on; some still in >> copyright but most expired. In general they've done a much >> better restoration job than the studios usually do. Wayne M. Smith wrote: > Perhaps I need to write a bit more clearly. The antecedent for "this > simply doesn't happen" in my post is "studios . . . spend huge amounts > of money to restore the prints for issue in DVD format." UCLA, last > time I looked, is not a studio. Academia is almost always an exception > to any general rule. If you're trying to argue that works entering the public domain don't get preserved, you can't simply choose to ignore academia on the basis that it's an inconvenient data point that doesn't fit your model. From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Jan 19 16:23:48 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: VME CPU's: Documentation Message-ID: I'm wondering if anyone has documentation on my 68010-based MVME-110-1 CPU boards. Google doesn't help much. Is there a standard debugger that (should) be in its ROMs? Does anyone have an image available? I think that these boards might have a custom ROM image on them, but I'm not sure. Thanks for any help, Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Jan 19 16:26:11 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:48 2005 Subject: Intellectual 'PROPERTY' In-Reply-To: <002b01c2bf72$1f20b790$9842cd18@D73KSM11> References: <002b01c2bf72$1f20b790$9842cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <33331.64.169.63.74.1043013344.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Sellam wrote: >> No, we stole it from the indigenous peoples that were here >> when the Pilgrims landed ;) Wayne M. Smith wrote: > C'mon Sellam, we're all indigenous peoples -- some of us are just > displaced! Whenever possible, I indicate on forms that I am a native american. I've frequently gotten complaints from people over that. I tell them to look up the words "native" and "american" in the dictionary, and explain to me how I fail to qualify. From acme at ao.net Sun Jan 19 16:28:33 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? Message-ID: <200301192158.QAA12681@eola.ao.net> From: Jim Arnott Date: 01/18/2003 9:11 PM > From an admitedly small sample. The local schools grab every obsolete > Mac I offer them. Everything from SEs to early nubus PPCs. The > instructors love them. They also say, "Windows don't do music > composition." What Windows programs score from MIDI? Check Digital Orchestrator Pro, downloadable from www.voyetra.com for $69.95. Low cost, gigantic number of features, and the interface is much simpler to use than Cakewalk. Later -- Glen 0/0 > > Jim > > J.C.Wren wrote: > > Say WHAT? There are dozens of music programs for the PC, and some are good > > enough for studio production work (like Cakewalk and Pro Tools). Where'd > > you ever get that idea? > > > From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Jan 19 16:31:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Malcontents, Ill-manners, ClassicCmp, and Me! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33336.64.169.63.74.1043013625.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Sellam wrote: > It's long, but bare with me. That's an image I *didn't* need. But I'll bear with you and read the rest of the message. From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Jan 19 16:33:23 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Apple 1 schematics In-Reply-To: <001c01c2bfd1$67404310$020010ac@k4jcw> References: <001c01c2bfd1$67404310$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <33358.64.169.63.74.1043014549.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> J.C. Wren wrote: > No, I meant that the board only has components on one side, unlike a > few > custom through-hole boards I've seen, and more and more surface mount > type boards. > > I wonder what CAD system they used to lay it out with. CAD system? ROTFL! That was done entirely by hand. Apple didn't have any money for CAD systems, or to contract out the work to people who did. Woz didn't even have an assembler to use when he was developing the monitor and BASIC interpreter; he had to hand-assemble it. I'd heard that Ron Wayne (the lesser-known of the three Apple founders) designed the board, which would have made sense because he designed boards for Atari, and the layout style of the Apple I board was very similar to those of Atari boards of that era. However, recently I asked Woz about it, and he said that it was NOT designed by Ron. Ron *did* write the Apple I manual, and he designed the original Apple logo (Newton under the Apple tree). From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Jan 19 16:36:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Apple 1 schematics In-Reply-To: <001e01c2bfdb$4f550470$020010ac@k4jcw> References: <001e01c2bfdb$4f550470$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <33479.64.169.63.74.1043015941.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> J.C. Wren wrote: > You think? I've not held an Apple I board in my hands, but looking at > the routing, I don't see any of the characteristics marks of a hand > layout. The tracks are too even, It was done by hand by someone really good, not a neophyte. > and way they're run horizontally is a hallmark > of early routing assistance algorithms. Running traces horizontally on one side and vertically on the other is the way it's generally done by hand or machine. Actually, some autorouters are *more* willing to deviate from this than hand layout typically would. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Jan 19 17:02:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Core memory speeds Message-ID: <3E2B2E9D.3020902@jetnet.ab.ca> Since I am building a classic TTL style computer, what was the access and cycle time of core memory before it vanished and just when did it do that? Also when did 74LS come out? I am aiming for late 70's early 80's time frame here since this looks to be the transition stage from the the old to the new. Ben From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Jan 19 17:08:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: VME CPU's: Documentation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I'm wondering if anyone has documentation on my 68010-based MVME-110-1 CPU > boards. Google doesn't help much. Is there a standard debugger that > (should) be in its ROMs? Does anyone have an image available? I think > that these boards might have a custom ROM image on them, but I'm not sure. > > Thanks for any help, > Well, it looks like there _is_ a monitor in there, it just won't start if "+5V SBY" is connected aparently (Standby?). OK, now does anyone have information on the monitor software for these? Thanks, Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Sun Jan 19 17:17:00 2003 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Apple 1 schematics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1043018461.1115.4.camel@azure.subsolar> On Sat, 2003-01-18 at 16:34, chris wrote: > >A: Yes. > >B: Google is your friend. > > Oh look at that... tons of hits. > > Gee, I figured it might be the kind of thing that Apple would have > protected... maybe it was the thread on copyrights just soured me into > forgetting that not everything in this world is locked away in a vault. Well Steve Wozniak designed the Apple 1 and was part of the homebrew computer club, which was a pretty open group of people into sharing information, he would probably say the design is in the public domain. He is probably happy that people are preserving his work and that they find joy in preserving the history of microcomputers. > >It's *extremely* difficult to find some of the Apple I parts, which have > >been out of production for over years. Particularly the seven 1024-bit > >MOS shift registers, and one hex-40-bit MOS shift register. > I really hadn't thought that far in advance.... I was honestly under the > wrong impression that the Apple 1 plans would be hard to come by. How are you going to get the ROMs if everybody believes in strict copyright? I think it would be just about impossible to recreate an old system without stepping on somebody's copyright. That said it depending on if it was Woz or Jobs who did the ROMs they may not mind, but it is infringement to reproduce the ROMs without the permission of the person who wrote the code. I think it would be best to contact Steve Wozniak if you are going to be doing for more than yourself. Regards, Paul --- a general rant to the list --- Companies generally are not interested in maintaining their old copyrights and preserving them, in the vast majority of cases old works are is only maintained by dedicated hobbyists or librarians. This is why "hard copyrights" like we have now with encryption and digital restrictions entering firmware and severe criminal penalties for any violation, without the character of the infringement even being considered, is wrong. Before 1973 the owners of a copyright had to actively maintain it by first claiming copyright and second by registering it to keep it active after the initial 28years. Before the No Electronic Theft Act in 1996(7?) it was not considered infringement to reproduce works as long as the work was not being actively maintained i.e. publicly available and it was not done fore profit. So if I had a copy of a manual for an old piece of equipment I was free to make a copy and give it to you as long as I did not profit directly from the act. There is no logical reason that many technically infringing uses of abandoned copyrights should be perfectly legal as long as it is not for profit. If your argument to refute this is that the author has a right control of the work, I would say that this right is not absolute since it is legal for me to make a dub of a CD for my car, to sing happy birthday (still copyrighted) at a birthday party in my home, and to record TV off the air without having to pay royalties to anyone. I see it as once an author makes a works publicly available, additional non-commercial uses should fall into fair use if the author does not continue making the work available to the public. ::sigh:: OK, I have that off my chest for now. Actually a discussion copyright probably does belong on this list since people are discussing making copies of manuals, eproms, paper tapes, etc to preserve and keep old systems running and all these fall under copyright and reproducing them is a infringe of copyright without the author's consent even if it is done for non-commercial purposes under current US law. Regards, Paul From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 19 17:33:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Apple 1 schematics In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030118232749.01de3150@postoffice.pacbell.net> from "Jim Battle" at Jan 18, 3 11:41:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1462 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030119/4358138b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 19 17:35:28 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips In-Reply-To: <01C2BF32.0EAA3160@mse-d03> from "M H Stein" at Jan 18, 3 08:42:00 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2675 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030119/950c04a4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 19 17:37:45 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Got the second batch of -11 equipment In-Reply-To: <943793EE-2B85-11D7-B3F1-000393970B96@neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Jan 19, 3 03:11:14 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1026 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030119/9679ff2f/attachment.ksh From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Sun Jan 19 17:41:01 2003 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: (OT) firmware, manual, schematics, etc re copyright comments Message-ID: <1043019738.1117.39.camel@azure.subsolar> First thing a discussion copyright probably does belong on this list since people are discussing making copies of manuals, scematics, eproms, paper tapes, etc to preserve and keep old systems running and all these fall under copyright and reproducing them is a infringe of copyright without the author's consent even if it is done for non-commercial purposes under current US law. ... now my rant ... Companies generally are not interested in maintaining their old copyrights and preserving them, in the vast majority of cases old works are is only maintained by dedicated people like hobbyists, scholars or librarians. This is why "hard copyrights" like we have with the DMCA with encryption and digital restrictions entering firmware and severe criminal or civil penalties for *any* violation, without the character of the infringement even being considered. This is very wrong. Before 1973 the owners of a copyright had to actively acquire it by first claiming copyright on the work and second by registering their copyright to keep it active after the initial 28 years. Before the "No Electronic Theft Act" in 1996(7?) it was not considered infringement to reproduce works as long as the work was not being actively maintained i.e. publicly available and the reproduction was not done for profit. So if I had a copy of a manual or schematic for an old piece of equipment I was free to make a copy and give it to you as long as I did not profit directly from the act. There is no logical reason that many technically infringing uses of abandoned copyrights should be perfectly legal as long as it is not for profit. If your argument to refute this is that the author has a right control of the work, I would say that this right is not absolute since it is legal for me to make a dub of a CD for my car, to sing happy birthday (still copyrighted) at a birthday party in my home, and to record TV off the air without having to pay royalties to anyone. I see it as once an author makes a works publicly available, additional non-commercial uses should fall into fair use if the author does not continue making the work available to the public to prevent useful works from disappearing. My point is that anybody trying to maintain/restore an old piece of equipment is almost certainly violating copyrights if they have had to rely on information reproduced by anybody other than the copyright holder. Thus under US law, as it stands, you are as guilty as anybody who has use NAPSTER, KAZA, etc to download music, and if you want to continue your hobby you should write your representative to get the laws changed to put some reasonable exclusions to infringement. ::sigh:: OK, I have that off my chest for now. Regards, Paul From charlesmorris at direcway.com Sun Jan 19 18:17:56 2003 From: charlesmorris at direcway.com (Charles) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Still more adventures in PDP-8/L repair In-Reply-To: <20030119075605.94514.97574.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20030119075605.94514.97574.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: I gave up (for the moment) trying to find the problem with the memory on my 8/L. It never returns anything but all-0's to the MB, but all the control pulses and timing are correct. To make matters worse, while scoping the output of the bit 5 sense amp I discovered it would change every time when I changed bit 0 of the switch register and hit DEP! Meanwhile I decided to go after another problem (when you hit START at 0000 it runs up to 0100 and "hangs" with the BREAK and RUN lights on.) If it's executing 0000's (AND instructions) it should just keep running. The only way to wake it back up is to flip the SING STEP switch (which is NOT how it's supposed to work; LOAD, EXAM, etc. should also clear the RUN flip flop). And nothing was requesting a data break, either! So after some scoping and extender card work, I found the backplane wire from the BRK SYNC flip flop was broken in two. This made for a continuous break request. I fixed it, now it starts and stops like it's supposed to,... And then I looked closely at the backplane and saw three more broken wires! All of them are crossing the gap between the AB row of sockets and the CD row. Guess 33 years of flexing and vibration did them in. They are buried too deep to be mouse bites (besides, the nest was in the back on the module side). Unfortunately I ran out of wirewrap wire and the wife rang the dinner bell. We'll see what ELSE is screwed up next week! -Charles From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sun Jan 19 18:43:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <33299.64.169.63.74.1043013141.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <000801c2c01d$4e3b7820$9842cd18@D73KSM11> > I wrote: > >> Demonstrably false. UCLA has restored many films that the studios > >> weren't willing to spend a penny on; some still in > copyright but most > >> expired. In general they've done a much better > restoration job than > >> the studios usually do. > > Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > Perhaps I need to write a bit more clearly. The antecedent > for "this > > simply doesn't happen" in my post is "studios . . . spend > huge amounts > > of money to restore the prints for issue in DVD format." > UCLA, last > > time I looked, is not a studio. Academia is almost always an > > exception to any general rule. > > If you're trying to argue that works entering the public > domain don't get preserved, you can't simply choose to ignore > academia on the basis that it's an inconvenient data point > that doesn't fit your model. > I wasn't arguing anything. I was just pointing out that I was referring to what studios do, not what happens in the non-profit world. If I had been arguing, I would have pointed out that the type of cleaning up that studios do on titles for DVD/home video release, and the work academia does on film restoration, are fundamentally different things that don't even belong in the same model. Academia, and UCLA in particular, is interested in preserving works that if not restored, will become lost. These are the type of public domain works where all that's left tends to be crumbling and you try to come up with a decent quality master by combining numerous elements sources. The work that studios do on remastered DVD releases is not to preserve endangered films, but rather, to create a higher-quality master using original negatives/interpositives. Most of the work usually involves fixing faded colors, removing marks in the negatives, redoing the audio and doing other minor clean-up. A good example of such work is the 2001 re-release of Superman the Movie, the quality of which blew away the previous VHS/laserdisc releases, particularly in the vibrancy of the color. UCLA is not going to "restore" a public domain picture like Royal Wedding, because it doesn't need restoring. The original interpositives reside in a temperature controlled vault in Colorado and are in relatively good shape. Nor, however, is anyone going to spend the money (usually around $200,000) it would require to prepare a new master from the original source materials and do the necessary clean up on the audio and video. Sure, there are some people who will spend the extra dollars for restored print, but not nearly enough to justify the cost. From jss at subatomix.com Sun Jan 19 18:54:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: ADMIN: What if ClassicCmp were a blog? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19685126004.20030119185738@subatomix.com> On Sunday, January 19, 2003, Pietje Puk wrote: > Thank you for providing the list! You're very welcome, but that is really Jay's territory. I'm just the hamster in the wheel. :-) -- Jeffrey Sharp From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Jan 19 19:30:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <000801c2c01d$4e3b7820$9842cd18@D73KSM11> References: <33299.64.169.63.74.1043013141.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <000801c2c01d$4e3b7820$9842cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <33874.64.169.63.74.1043026428.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Wayne M. Smith wrote: > I wasn't arguing anything. It seems to me that you were disputing the idea that works entering the public domain would be a good thing. Maybe I misremember what you wrote earlier. If so, I apologize. > UCLA is not going to "restore" a public domain picture like Royal > Wedding, because it doesn't need restoring. The original interpositives > reside in a temperature controlled vault in Colorado and are in > relatively good shape. Nor, however, is anyone going to spend the money > (usually around $200,000) it would require to prepare a new master from > the original source materials and do the necessary clean up on the audio > and video. Sure, there are some people who will spend the extra dollars > for restored print, but not nearly enough to justify the cost. So it seems like your position is: 1) With the current perptual copyright system, there will never be a good "restored" version of Royal Wedding, because the studio doesn't believe it would make (sufficient) money from it. 2) If worked entered the public domain, there would never be a good "restored" version of them, because no one would have the original interpositives to work from, and no one would be willing to spend the money. Since the end result of both options is the same, this hardly seems to be a compelling argument for NOT allowing copyrights to expire. For software, where the cost of "remastering" an old release would be negligible, there's even less rationale for a copyright system that allows a copyright owner to suppress copying and distribution of old works. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jan 19 19:41:01 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Update: BBC Acorn In-Reply-To: Jules Richardson "Re: Update: BBC Acorn" (Jan 19, 11:12) References: <20030119111245.60796.qmail@web21103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10301200132.ZM28660@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 19, 11:12, Jules Richardson wrote: > > Well, someone else has offered to copy Disc 1 for me. I've also found a > > few other people who have ARM Evaluation Systems, so once I get a good Disc > > 1, I'll put the set of six on my website (and if anyone from any of the > > Beeb sites wants to make a copy, that's fine by me). Any suggestions as to > > format to use for the images? > > I expect you know far more about this than I do! "Pete's own undocumented image > format" is probably not a good idea :-) No, probably not :-) The trick with Acorn files is preserving the load and execute addresses. A spark archive will do that, but as far as I know, there's no spark dearchiver for a Beeb. It would be easy on an Archimedes or a RISC PC, but not everyone will have one of those -- and even if they did, they might not have a way to attach a 5.25" drive to it. I'm open to suggestions... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jan 19 19:42:17 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? In-Reply-To: David Holland "Re: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability?" (Jan 19, 11:19) References: <1042913239.31345.14.camel@crusader> <10301182240.ZM26806@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <1042993165.28221.2.camel@crusader> Message-ID: <10301200144.ZM28676@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 19, 11:19, David Holland wrote: > Acutally, what I'd like to do is plug my 20$ Logitech Optical mouse (no > plate) into it, but somehow or another, I don't expect to see USB on a > Crimson anytime soon. You might be able to get a non-optical mouse from an Indigo or something of that vintage and change the plug, or make an adaptor. AFAIK, the Sun optical mice were made by Mouse Systems, and so were the older SGI mice. The 4DFAQ (aka "This Old SGI") has some instructions to convert a Sun mouse for an SGI. I'm not sure what effect the modification has; it could be baud rate. The Sun mice are 1200 baud, while SGI's were 4800 baud, and of course Sun use 0V/+5V while SGI used +/- 5V (roughly, it's more-or-less RS423 levels). There are also different protocols; SGIs use 5 bytes, and I think Mouse Systems standard mice used 3. Dunno about Suns. Another thing you might look out for is an older Sun non-optical mouse. I used to hate the optical ones (because of the limitations of the pad) and was delighted to find that Sun made an alternative, around the time of the early Ultras and later Sparcstations. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From at258 at osfn.org Sun Jan 19 20:04:01 2003 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: new aquisition In-Reply-To: <200301190906.EAA09497@conman.org> Message-ID: Today a couple came in and gave us a 1987 Amstrad PC1512SD in lovely condition. It runs the GEM desktop. M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sun Jan 19 20:22:01 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <33874.64.169.63.74.1043026428.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <001601c2c02b$2dec9000$9842cd18@D73KSM11> > Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > I wasn't arguing anything. > > It seems to me that you were disputing the idea that works > entering the public domain would be a good thing. Maybe I > misremember what you wrote earlier. If so, I apologize. > No. The original premise of my post was that in some circumstances if works are kept out of the public domain they are taken better care of. > > UCLA is not going to "restore" a public domain picture like Royal > > Wedding, because it doesn't need restoring. The original > > interpositives reside in a temperature controlled vault in Colorado > > and are in relatively good shape. Nor, however, is anyone going to > > spend the money (usually around $200,000) it would require > to prepare > > a new master from the original source materials and do the > necessary > > clean up on the audio and video. Sure, there are some > people who will > > spend the extra dollars for restored print, but not nearly > enough to > > justify the cost. > > So it seems like your position is: > > 1) With the current perptual copyright system, there will never be a > good "restored" version of Royal Wedding, because the > studio doesn't > believe it would make (sufficient) money from it. > Royal Wedding was used as an example to demonstrate that owned films are taken care of by their owners, whereas public domain films, with the exception of certain "classics", usually are not. It went PD after 28 years and so doesn't really bear at all on the so-called perpetual copyright system issues. And, it isn't a matter of making "sufficient" money (which suggests that there's money to be made, just not enough), it's a matter of how much you want to lose. > 2) If worked entered the public domain, there would never be a good > "restored" version of them, because no one would have the original > interpositives to work from, and no one would be willing to spend > the money. > It's not because no one has the interpositives to work from, it's because the party that has the interpositives won't make the investment because the existence of cheap, low-quality, public domain versions dooms any ability to recoup the cost. > Since the end result of both options is the same, this hardly > seems to be a compelling argument for NOT allowing copyrights > to expire. > There is no contradiction. Royal Wedding is an example of what happens when the copyright does expire. For better or worse, the property is neglected. If it was owned, it would be taken care of and you could purchase a beautiful remastered print -- assuming you're a fan of the MGM musical genre. > For software, where the cost of "remastering" an old release > would be negligible, there's even less rationale for a > copyright system that allows a copyright owner to suppress > copying and distribution of old works. > There, I agree with you. Film is a special case because the expression of the work is tied to physical "analog" materials that tend to deterioriate. Software, has been digital since its creation and therefore susceptible to cheap, perfect copies. -W From frustum at pacbell.net Sun Jan 19 20:29:00 2003 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Wang 2200T available in Auckland, NZ Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030119181927.01dd9c60@postoffice.pacbell.net> I was contacted by a man who has a friend looking to get rid of a "Wang 2200T". I don't know if it is just the CPU, or an entire system. A 2200T was the last of the first generation 2200 CPUs, put out just before starting the 2200VP line. >From: Neil Stichbury >To: "'frustum@pacbell.net'" >Subject: 2200T >Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:27:50 +1300 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > >I have a colleague who has a 2200T in his garage, believed to be working. >Of use to anyone ?. > > >Neil Stichbury >Client Services Specialist > >gen-i > technology*passion*success > >9 City Road, Auckland, New Zealand >Ph: +64 9 306 4717 >Fax: +64 9 306 4543 >Mob: +64 21 274 9136 >E-mail: Neil.Stichbury@gen-i.co.nz >Web: www.gen-i.co.nz > >* People Achieving Success Through Technology * A followup email said: >Hi Jim, >It's in Auckland. We can possibly 'assist' with transportation costs as we >would rather give it to a good home than dump it. > >Regards, >Neil Stichbury According to his web page, gen-i used to be known as "wang new zealand", so I suspect he knows what he is talking about! ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From foo at siconic.com Sun Jan 19 20:34:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Apple 1 schematics In-Reply-To: <33358.64.169.63.74.1043014549.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > I'd heard that Ron Wayne (the lesser-known of the three Apple founders) > designed the board, which would have made sense because he designed boards > for Atari, and the layout style of the Apple I board was very similar to > those of Atari boards of that era. However, recently I asked Woz about it, > and he said that it was NOT designed by Ron. So then who did design it? I thought I may have read somewhere that they did the board layout at HP using a CAD system there. That may be totally incorrect though (my recollection and/or the anecdote). > Ron *did* write the Apple I manual, and he designed the original Apple > logo (Newton under the Apple tree). His role in the development of the Apple-1 is pretty well covered in the book _Apple Confidential_. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From allain at panix.com Sun Jan 19 22:03:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Intellectual 'PROPERTY' References: <002b01c2bf72$1f20b790$9842cd18@D73KSM11> <33331.64.169.63.74.1043013344.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <02ab01c2c039$4f4e5e00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I've frequently gotten complaints from people over that. I > tell them to look up the words "native" and "american" in > the dictionary, and explain to me how I fail to qualify. It's in the first dictionary I looked in. _Indiginous_ people. John A. From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Sun Jan 19 22:08:01 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Intellectual 'PROPERTY' References: <002b01c2bf72$1f20b790$9842cd18@D73KSM11> <33331.64.169.63.74.1043013344.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3E2B7782.9D54542A@mail.verizon.net> Eric Smith wrote: > Sellam wrote: > >> No, we stole it from the indigenous peoples that were here > >> when the Pilgrims landed ;) > > Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > C'mon Sellam, we're all indigenous peoples -- some of us are just > > displaced! > > Whenever possible, I indicate on forms that I am a native american. > I've frequently gotten complaints from people over that. I tell them > to look up the words "native" and "american" in the dictionary, and > explain to me how I fail to qualify. I dunno. I think that in the context where the term "Native American" is, the word "American" is always proceeded by a capitalized adjective. Now I'm not sure about the forms that you've been looking at, but are you a native American or a Native American? Eric P.S. Has Unix's indifference to capitalization fostered a gap in under- standing within the English Language? From msspcva at yahoo.com Sun Jan 19 22:42:00 2003 From: msspcva at yahoo.com (Clayton Frank Helvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Manuals becoming available via web (M4, Pick) and general pick info In-Reply-To: <007301c2bfea$33341920$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20030120044507.8233.qmail@web41106.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Jay & Bruce! -- Frank --- Jay West wrote: > I had posted a while back about the manuals for M4 > and Pick that I had just > come across in the basement. Bruce Ray has agreed to > scan them and make them > available to people. Now that I'm packing them up to > be sent to him, thought > I'd post a more clear list as to what I have... > === message truncated === ===== = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= Clayton Frank Helvey, President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com ============================================================ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Jan 19 22:47:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Intellectual 'PROPERTY' In-Reply-To: <02ab01c2c039$4f4e5e00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <002b01c2bf72$1f20b790$9842cd18@D73KSM11> <33331.64.169.63.74.1043013344.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <02ab01c2c039$4f4e5e00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <34479.64.169.63.74.1043038229.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> I wrote: > I've frequently gotten complaints from people over that. I > tell them to look up the words "native" and "american" in > the dictionary, and explain to me how I fail to qualify. John Allain wrote: > It's in the first dictionary I looked in. _Indiginous_ people. I think you mean "indigenous". Originating and living naturally in an area or environment. I originated in north american, thus I am a native american. From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Jan 19 22:50:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Intellectual 'PROPERTY' In-Reply-To: <3E2B7782.9D54542A@mail.verizon.net> References: <002b01c2bf72$1f20b790$9842cd18@D73KSM11> <33331.64.169.63.74.1043013344.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E2B7782.9D54542A@mail.verizon.net> Message-ID: <34480.64.169.63.74.1043038430.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Eric Chomko wrote: > I dunno. I think that in the context where the term "Native American" > is, the word "American" is always proceeded by a capitalized adjective. I am unaware of any rule of spelling or grammar that causes a capitalized adjective to have a different meaning than the same word without capitalization. Of three dictionaries I've consulted, none give a special meaning for "Native" as distinct from "native". Two of them imply that "American" should be capitalized, but the third does not. > Now I'm not sure about the forms that you've been looking at, but > are you a native American or a Native American? Yes, I am. From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Jan 19 22:53:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Intellectual 'PROPERTY' In-Reply-To: <34479.64.169.63.74.1043038229.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <002b01c2bf72$1f20b790$9842cd18@D73KSM11> <33331.64.169.63.74.1043013344.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <02ab01c2c039$4f4e5e00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <34479.64.169.63.74.1043038229.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <34483.64.169.63.74.1043038582.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> I wrote: > I originated in north american, [...] Poor editing on my part. I originally composed that as "originated on the north american continent," and when I changed the wording I failed to remove the "n". It should, of course, have read "I originated in north america, [...]." From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Sun Jan 19 22:59:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Intellectual 'PROPERTY' References: <002b01c2bf72$1f20b790$9842cd18@D73KSM11> <33331.64.169.63.74.1043013344.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E2B7782.9D54542A@mail.verizon.net> Message-ID: <3E2B8359.612EF927@mail.verizon.net> Eric Chomko wrote: > Eric Smith wrote: > > > Sellam wrote: > > >> No, we stole it from the indigenous peoples that were here > > >> when the Pilgrims landed ;) > > > > Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > > C'mon Sellam, we're all indigenous peoples -- some of us are just > > > displaced! > > > > Whenever possible, I indicate on forms that I am a native american. > > I've frequently gotten complaints from people over that. I tell them > > to look up the words "native" and "american" in the dictionary, and > > explain to me how I fail to qualify. > > I dunno. I think that in the context where the term "Native American" > is, the word "American" is always proceeded by a capitalized adjective. oops, preceded > > Now I'm not sure about the forms that you've been looking at, but > are you a native American or a Native American? > > Eric > > P.S. Has Unix's indifference to capitalization fostered a gap in under- > standing within the English Language? From allain at panix.com Sun Jan 19 23:06:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Intellectual 'PROPERTY' References: <002b01c2bf72$1f20b790$9842cd18@D73KSM11> <33331.64.169.63.74.1043013344.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <02ab01c2c039$4f4e5e00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <34479.64.169.63.74.1043038229.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <000901c2c042$28548f00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> what it said was "Belonging to the people inhabiting a country originally or at the time of its discovery." suckered in by another ridiculous post. my mistake, sorry. John A. and I violated the copyright of the dictionary. WhooHoo! ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Smith To: Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 11:50 PM Subject: Re: Intellectual 'PROPERTY' I wrote: > I've frequently gotten complaints from people over that. I > tell them to look up the words "native" and "american" in > the dictionary, and explain to me how I fail to qualify. John Allain wrote: > It's in the first dictionary I looked in. _Indiginous_ people. I think you mean "indigenous". Originating and living naturally in an area or environment. I originated in north american, thus I am a native american. From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Sun Jan 19 23:08:01 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Intellectual 'PROPERTY' References: <002b01c2bf72$1f20b790$9842cd18@D73KSM11> <33331.64.169.63.74.1043013344.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E2B7782.9D54542A@mail.verizon.net> <34480.64.169.63.74.1043038430.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3E2B8591.507E099B@mail.verizon.net> Eric Smith wrote: > Eric Chomko wrote: > > I dunno. I think that in the context where the term "Native American" > > is, the word "American" is always proceeded by a capitalized adjective. > > I am unaware of any rule of spelling or grammar that causes a capitalized > adjective to have a different meaning than the same word without > capitalization. Of three dictionaries I've consulted, none give a special > meaning for "Native" as distinct from "native". Two of them imply that > "American" should be capitalized, but the third does not. "American" is always capitalized. "Native American" is quite different than "native American." The first implies that the two words have a distinction when combined. Check the website: www.m-w.com with "Native American", it is a single entry. Then look up "native" and "American" at the same website. Combine the two latter as separate word entries and then you'll have you. > > > > Now I'm not sure about the forms that you've been looking at, but > > are you a native American or a Native American? > > Yes, I am. There is a distinction between the two. The first case is two separate entries in Websters. The latter is a single entry. You, sir, stand corrected! Eric From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Sun Jan 19 23:12:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Intellectual 'PROPERTY' References: <002b01c2bf72$1f20b790$9842cd18@D73KSM11> <33331.64.169.63.74.1043013344.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <02ab01c2c039$4f4e5e00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <34479.64.169.63.74.1043038229.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <34483.64.169.63.74.1043038582.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3E2B867C.77EFB50C@mail.verizon.net> I stand by my Unix comment on the indifference to capitalization as a hinderance to understanding the English Language. "North American" IS a continent. The idea of "north American" is any damn place in America north of a particular reference point. Some folks shouldn't have Unix as their first language. :) Eric Eric Smith wrote: > I wrote: > > I originated in north american, [...] > > Poor editing on my part. I originally composed that as "originated on > the north american continent," and when I changed the wording I failed > to remove the "n". It should, of course, have read "I originated in > north america, [...]." From frustum at pacbell.net Sun Jan 19 23:14:00 2003 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Intellectual 'PROPERTY' In-Reply-To: <34480.64.169.63.74.1043038430.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <3E2B7782.9D54542A@mail.verizon.net> <002b01c2bf72$1f20b790$9842cd18@D73KSM11> <33331.64.169.63.74.1043013344.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E2B7782.9D54542A@mail.verizon.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030119211110.01e0bdd0@postoffice.pacbell.net> At 08:53 PM 1/19/03 -0800, Eric Smith wrote: >Eric Chomko wrote: > > I dunno. I think that in the context where the term "Native American" > > is, the word "American" is always proceeded by a capitalized adjective. > >I am unaware of any rule of spelling or grammar that causes a capitalized >adjective to have a different meaning than the same word without >capitalization. Perhaps no rule, but there are certainly some specific cases. Here's a simple example: 1) We are thankful that he showed mercy 2) We are thankful that He showed mercy You have no idea whom I'm talking about in case 1, but case 2 is very specific. >Of three dictionaries I've consulted, none give a special >meaning for "Native" as distinct from "native". Two of them imply that >"American" should be capitalized, but the third does not. > > > Now I'm not sure about the forms that you've been looking at, but > > are you a native American or a Native American? > >Yes, I am. If you look up the meaning of each word you can't decipher the true meaning of the phrase. As you are well aware, English has thousands of idioms. Go to "www.m-w.com" (merriam-webster), and type "native american", not just one word, and it will say it is a synonym for "american indian". Click on "american indian" and it says: : a member of any of the aboriginal peoples of the western hemisphere except usually the Eskimos; especially : an American Indian of North America and especially the U.S. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Jan 19 23:20:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Intellectual 'PROPERTY' In-Reply-To: <000901c2c042$28548f00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <002b01c2bf72$1f20b790$9842cd18@D73KSM11> <33331.64.169.63.74.1043013344.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <02ab01c2c039$4f4e5e00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <34479.64.169.63.74.1043038229.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <000901c2c042$28548f00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <34545.64.169.63.74.1043040218.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > what it said was > "Belonging to the people inhabiting a country > originally or at the time of its discovery." I have no idea what dictionary you're looking at, but dictionary.com found several: Originating and living or occurring naturally in an area or environment. American Heritage Dictionary of the English Lanugage, Fourth Edition Native; produced, growing, or living, naturally in a country or climate; not exotic; not imported. Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, 1998 Originating where it is found WorldNet, 1997 The idea of "inhabiting a country originally or at the time of its discovery" may be *one* definition of indigenous, but it's clearly not definitive. One example givin in the Webster's entry does seem to substantiate the definition you've given, even though the Webster's definition is more broad. Anyhow, not all definitions of "native" require the noun to be indigenous. In fact, most don't. For instance, definition two in the American Heritage Dictionary (ibid.): Being such by birth or origin: A native Scot. I'm certainly an American by birth or origin, thus I'm clearly native to America. From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Jan 19 23:30:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Intellectual 'PROPERTY' In-Reply-To: <3E2B8591.507E099B@mail.verizon.net> References: <002b01c2bf72$1f20b790$9842cd18@D73KSM11> <33331.64.169.63.74.1043013344.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E2B7782.9D54542A@mail.verizon.net> <34480.64.169.63.74.1043038430.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E2B8591.507E099B@mail.verizon.net> Message-ID: <34559.64.169.63.74.1043040789.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > "American" is always capitalized. Of about seven dictionaries I've now checked, four online and three paper, four do not always capitalize "american". It is clear that "american" is not always capitalized. From SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net Sun Jan 19 23:32:00 2003 From: SecretaryBird at SoftHome.net (Scarletdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Intellectual 'PROPERTY' In-Reply-To: <33331.64.169.63.74.1043013344.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <002b01c2bf72$1f20b790$9842cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <3E2B1880.28838.171221E@localhost> Subject: RE: Intellectual 'PROPERTY' From: "Eric Smith" To: Send reply to: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date sent: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 13:55:44 -0800 (PST) > Whenever possible, I indicate on forms that I am a native american. > I've frequently gotten complaints from people over that. I tell them > to look up the words "native" and "american" in the dictionary, and > explain to me how I fail to qualify. > If the question on the form asks for race, I often just answer "Human". :) From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Sun Jan 19 23:35:01 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Intellectual 'PROPERTY' References: <3E2B7782.9D54542A@mail.verizon.net> <002b01c2bf72$1f20b790$9842cd18@D73KSM11> <33331.64.169.63.74.1043013344.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E2B7782.9D54542A@mail.verizon.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20030119211110.01e0bdd0@postoffice.pacbell.net> Message-ID: <3E2B8BDD.510986F3@mail.verizon.net> Jim, Jim Battle wrote: > At 08:53 PM 1/19/03 -0800, Eric Smith wrote: > >Eric Chomko wrote: > > > I dunno. I think that in the context where the term "Native American" > > > is, the word "American" is always proceeded by a capitalized adjective. > > > >I am unaware of any rule of spelling or grammar that causes a capitalized > >adjective to have a different meaning than the same word without > >capitalization. > > Perhaps no rule, but there are certainly some specific cases. Here's a > simple example: > > 1) We are thankful that he showed mercy > > 2) We are thankful that He showed mercy > > You have no idea whom I'm talking about in case 1, but case 2 is very specific. > > >Of three dictionaries I've consulted, none give a special > >meaning for "Native" as distinct from "native". Two of them imply that > >"American" should be capitalized, but the third does not. > > > > > Now I'm not sure about the forms that you've been looking at, but > > > are you a native American or a Native American? > > > >Yes, I am. > > If you look up the meaning of each word you can't decipher the true meaning > of the phrase. As you are well aware, English has thousands of idioms. > > Go to "www.m-w.com" (merriam-webster), and type "native american", not just > one word, and it will say it is a synonym for "american indian". > Actually "native american" as input gets corrected to "Native American." Eric > > Click on "american indian" and it says: > > : a member of any of the aboriginal peoples of the western hemisphere > except usually the Eskimos; especially : an American Indian of North > America and especially the U.S. > > ----- > Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Sun Jan 19 23:38:01 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Intellectual 'PROPERTY' References: <002b01c2bf72$1f20b790$9842cd18@D73KSM11> <33331.64.169.63.74.1043013344.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <02ab01c2c039$4f4e5e00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <34479.64.169.63.74.1043038229.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <000901c2c042$28548f00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <34545.64.169.63.74.1043040218.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3E2B8C9A.FA5CC457@mail.verizon.net> Eric Smith wrote: > > what it said was > > "Belonging to the people inhabiting a country > > originally or at the time of its discovery." > > I have no idea what dictionary you're looking at, but dictionary.com > found several: > > Originating and living or occurring naturally in an area or environment. > American Heritage Dictionary of the English Lanugage, Fourth Edition > > Native; produced, growing, or living, naturally in a country or climate; > not exotic; not imported. > Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, 1998 > > Originating where it is found > WorldNet, 1997 > > The idea of "inhabiting a country originally or at the time of its > discovery" may be *one* definition of indigenous, but it's clearly > not definitive. One example givin in the Webster's entry does seem > to substantiate the definition you've given, even though the Webster's > definition is more broad. > > Anyhow, not all definitions of "native" require the noun to be > indigenous. In fact, most don't. For instance, definition two in > the American Heritage Dictionary (ibid.): > > Being such by birth or origin: A native Scot. > > I'm certainly an American by birth or origin, thus I'm clearly native > to America. Right, you are a native American but not a Native American. And there is no such things as Native Scots, just native Scots. The proper noun in this case is the key. Eric From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Sun Jan 19 23:53:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Intellectual 'PROPERTY' References: <002b01c2bf72$1f20b790$9842cd18@D73KSM11> <33331.64.169.63.74.1043013344.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E2B7782.9D54542A@mail.verizon.net> <34480.64.169.63.74.1043038430.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E2B8591.507E099B@mail.verizon.net> <34559.64.169.63.74.1043040789.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3E2B9017.26F62231@mail.verizon.net> You can enter "american" in a search but all reponses will respond corrected with "American." Please provide a link to it otherwise. Maybe Unix shouldn't take the full blame for this liberalization in the use or lack thereof of capiatlization of words; but what is clear is that just because the ASCII presentation of letters for uppercase and lowercase differ by one bit we have a tendancy to lose the distinction of word(s) meaning based upon capitalization. I think that English teachers need to address this in a neo technical world. Eric, just because a search engine doesn't kick back "american" as wrong doesn't make it's lower case spelling right. Eric Eric Smith wrote: > > "American" is always capitalized. > > Of about seven dictionaries I've now checked, four online and three paper, > four do not always capitalize "american". It is clear that "american" > is not always capitalized. From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Jan 20 00:27:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Intellectual 'PROPERTY' In-Reply-To: <3E2B9017.26F62231@mail.verizon.net> References: <002b01c2bf72$1f20b790$9842cd18@D73KSM11> <33331.64.169.63.74.1043013344.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E2B7782.9D54542A@mail.verizon.net> <34480.64.169.63.74.1043038430.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E2B8591.507E099B@mail.verizon.net> <34559.64.169.63.74.1043040789.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E2B9017.26F62231@mail.verizon.net> Message-ID: <32855.209.66.107.87.1043044232.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Eric, just because a search engine doesn't kick back "american" as wrong > doesn't make it's > lower case spelling right. Huh? What do search engines have to do with it? I definitely don't count on them as any sort of reference on spelling or capitalization. I'm talking about dictionaries, both on line and printed on paper (how quaint!). From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 20 00:34:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Intellectual 'PROPERTY' In-Reply-To: <3E2B7782.9D54542A@mail.verizon.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, Eric Chomko wrote: > I dunno. I think that in the context where the term "Native American" > is, the word "American" is always proceeded by a capitalized adjective. > Now I'm not sure about the forms that you've been looking at, but > are you a native American or a Native American? Well, to call Native Americans that is to assume that this land was called "America" before Columbus discovered it for the Europeans. So even the title "Native American" is improper. I prefer "Indigenous Peoples of this Land", but it's too long (and annoying) to say. I coined the term "Indigen" as a good replacement but a friend who is descended from the indigenous peoples of what is now known as North America pointed out to me that it sounds too close to "indigent". Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 20 00:42:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Intellectual 'PROPERTY' In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030119211110.01e0bdd0@postoffice.pacbell.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, Jim Battle wrote: > Go to "www.m-w.com" (merriam-webster), and type "native american", not just > one word, and it will say it is a synonym for "american indian". > > Click on "american indian" and it says: > > : a member of any of the aboriginal peoples of the western hemisphere > except usually the Eskimos; especially : an American Indian of North > America and especially the U.S. Isn't it politically incorrect to call Inuits "Eskimos" these days? ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 20 00:45:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Got the second batch of -11 equipment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030120064820.22709.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Witchy wrote: > > > ...on some drives. I have two RL drives here that don't have the > > little release hatch. > > I didn't know that - all the drives I've come across in all me years > working for VARs I've not come across a drive that didn't have the > access panel. Are yours older drives? Maybe the panel was added later > because getting the lid open without it is a right royal PITA....... I have both types. AFAIK, the older drives did _not_ have the access panel, and this goes double for RL01 drives (of which I have several, since they were "cheap"* when I was into collecting stuff for my PDP-8 in college, c. 1985) -ethan * - "cheap" meaning that the drives cost the same or less than the shipping. :-( During the same timeframe, RL02 drives were still current and selling new for well over $1,000 USD. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 20 00:47:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: OT: Indians, Americans, Natives, Native Americans, Indigenous Peoples, and "Indigens" was (Intellectual Property) In-Reply-To: <34545.64.169.63.74.1043040218.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > I'm certainly an American by birth or origin, thus I'm clearly native > to America. The term Native American has certainly caused semantical confusion. You are indeed a Native American, and a native American. But you are not, in the context of the period preceding, say, 500 years ago, a Person Descended from an Indigenous Person of this Land that is Now Known as America. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 20 00:52:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: OT: Indians and such (was Re: Intellectual 'PROPERTY') In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Well, to call Native Americans that is to assume that this land was called > "America" before Columbus discovered it for the Europeans. So even the > title "Native American" is improper. I prefer "Indigenous Peoples of this > Land", but it's too long (and annoying) to say. By the way, this is not original philosophy. I lifted it from a King Missile song called, "The Indians": The Indians lived all over this land before we came and killed them. That was very bad of us. We thought we needed the land, But for the most part, We just ruined it anyway, And now, nobody can use it. That's the way we are. We're pigs. One of my favorite foods to eat is called corn. The Indians call it "maize." We call the Indians "Indians." This is because Columbus thought he was in India When he first came to this land. Some people say we should call the Indians, "Native Americans," 'Cause they were here in America before us, But before us, This land wasn't called "America." It was named "America" by a mapmaker who never even came here. He just lived in Europe And made maps and when he found out about this land, And put his name on it, 'Cause he could. That's the way we are. We're pigs. As I was writing this, A cockroach fell from the sky and onto the table. I killed it, 'Cause I did. That's the way I am. This doesn't really have very much to do with the Indians, though. I guess I got kind of sidetracked. Anyway, I hope you see my point. The Indians - King Missile (C) 1991 Atlantic Recording Corporation ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From spc at conman.org Mon Jan 20 02:09:00 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Intellectual 'PROPERTY' In-Reply-To: <34480.64.169.63.74.1043038430.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Jan 19, 2003 08:53:50 PM Message-ID: <200301200812.DAA13077@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Eric Smith once stated: > > Eric Chomko wrote: > > I dunno. I think that in the context where the term "Native American" > > is, the word "American" is always proceeded by a capitalized adjective. > > I am unaware of any rule of spelling or grammar that causes a capitalized > adjective to have a different meaning than the same word without > capitalization. Polish and polish. Okay, one is an adjective and one is a verb. I'll leave it up to you do decide which is which 8-) -spc (Also a native of North America ... ) From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Jan 20 02:47:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Intellectual 'PROPERTY' In-Reply-To: <200301200812.DAA13077@conman.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > Polish and polish. > > Okay, one is an adjective and one is a verb. I'll leave it up to > you do decide which is which 8-) Both are nouns! -brian. From spc at conman.org Mon Jan 20 03:59:00 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Intellectual 'PROPERTY' In-Reply-To: from "Brian Chase" at Jan 20, 2003 12:49:46 AM Message-ID: <200301201002.FAA13449@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Brian Chase once stated: > > On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > > > Polish and polish. > > > > Okay, one is an adjective and one is a verb. I'll leave it up to > > you do decide which is which 8-) > > Both are nouns! The Polish use Polish polish to polish. art noun v adj noun v v -spc (So it's all three ... okay, this is getting too silly ... ) From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Jan 20 04:21:01 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:49 2005 Subject: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... In-Reply-To: ; from witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk on Sun, Jan 19, 2003 at 12:30:54 CET References: Message-ID: <20030120111444.S57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.01.19 12:30 Witchy wrote: > The thing that's puzzling me is the fact they've shoehorned an RX33 > in there - I thought the 3100-10 was the only machine to have floppy > capability...... I have a 2.88 MB SCSI floppy in my MV3100m95. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Mon Jan 20 05:05:55 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:50 2005 Subject: RK07 repairable? References: <20030117005557.U57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <20030118091552.S57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <3E2BD88D.1000100@Vishay.com> Jochen, expect a little more here: the transformer in a PDP-11/34 feeds up to four bricks (depending on whether core memory needs the 20V supply, or whether battery backup is present) and some small scale stuff, and each of these bricks does about 150W or more of _output_ power (e.g., 20V/8A, 5V/32A, 15V/10A, ...). So, with a combined output of more than 600W, I'd expect the transformer to do something like at least 750VA. Even more, considering its weight... ;-) - If you need to lift the box without help, grab it from the back side, where the transformer is. Talking about power supplies in the 11/34: the power distribution board was modified when the 5V/32A regulator bricks were introduced because the original version couldn't handle the current: it was designed for the former 25A bricks. I don't have the part numbers at hand right now (they're on microfiche at home), but can look them up if you need them. Just in case: I seem to remember that there are several of those bricks sleeping in a dark corner of my basement, so if you have no luck fixing yours, let's try to make a deal. Good luck anyway! Regards, Andreas Jochen Kunz wrote: > On 2003.01.17 20:35 Tony Duell wrote: > > >>The DEC 'bricks' -- the H744, etc, regulators -- used in the 10.5" >>PDP11/34 box are relatively friendly to work on. They are swtichers, >>but they start from a 30V AC input (from a large mains transformer -- >>an isolating transformer). > > The owner showed me already a big transformer (should be around 200..400 > VA) from the PSU. He also said that the PSU is modular and one of the > modules is broken. An other reason why I an expecting a /34. -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Jan 20 07:54:01 2003 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:50 2005 Subject: Intellectual 'PROPERTY' In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Jan 19, 3 10:34:52 pm" Message-ID: <200301201407.GAA07934@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I coined the term "Indigen" as a good replacement but a friend who is > descended from the indigenous peoples of what is now known as North > America pointed out to me that it sounds too close to "indigent". ... so she became indignant? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Never send a human to do a machine's job. -- "The Matrix" ------------------ From dholland at woh.rr.com Mon Jan 20 08:50:01 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:50 2005 Subject: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? In-Reply-To: <10301200144.ZM28676@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <1042913239.31345.14.camel@crusader> <10301182240.ZM26806@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <1042993165.28221.2.camel@crusader> <10301200144.ZM28676@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <1043074757.13594.13.camel@crusader> Hmmmm... Something I found that may be of use: http://rshockley.dyndns.org/indigo.htm Looks like its just an adaptor cable to convert from Crimson DB-15 to Indigo DIN-6.. http://www.irisindigo.com/forums/read.php?TID=98#196 Anyone got a PIC programmer they'd use for me? :-) I may be looking to have someone program a couple of 16F28's here real soon. david On Sun, 2003-01-19 at 20:44, pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: > On Jan 19, 11:19, David Holland wrote: > > > Acutally, what I'd like to do is plug my 20$ Logitech Optical mouse (no > > plate) into it, but somehow or another, I don't expect to see USB on a > > Crimson anytime soon. > > You might be able to get a non-optical mouse from an Indigo or something of > that vintage and change the plug, or make an adaptor. > > AFAIK, the Sun optical mice were made by Mouse Systems, and so were the > older SGI mice. The 4DFAQ (aka "This Old SGI") has some instructions to > convert a Sun mouse for an SGI. I'm not sure what effect the modification > has; it could be baud rate. The Sun mice are 1200 baud, while SGI's were > 4800 baud, and of course Sun use 0V/+5V while SGI used +/- 5V (roughly, > it's more-or-less RS423 levels). There are also different protocols; SGIs > use 5 bytes, and I think Mouse Systems standard mice used 3. Dunno about > Suns. > > Another thing you might look out for is an older Sun non-optical mouse. I > used to hate the optical ones (because of the limitations of the pad) and > was delighted to find that Sun made an alternative, around the time of the > early Ultras and later Sparcstations. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Mon Jan 20 09:13:00 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:50 2005 Subject: "Piracy" (was: Unauthorized copying References: Message-ID: <3E2C12D1.DE91C479@comcast.net> Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, chris wrote: > > > I seem to even recall a duplication program that I used to use that was > > quite good at getting around copy protection, was called something like > > "The Pirates Friend". I'd have to go thru old software floppies to > > locate it and confirm the name, but I do think it used pirate in the > > name. > > I have a copy of "The Pirate's Friend" in my Apple software boxes ;) > That reminds me.. andbody remember "The Pirate's Toolchest" for the Commodore 64? -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From allain at panix.com Mon Jan 20 09:34:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:50 2005 Subject: OTicism. Are the indians winning? References: Message-ID: <007c01c2c099$db6d5520$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > You are indeed a Native American, and a native American. I think it's provably true in many things decided on on this list are not as they are in the real world, and most of those things are the off topic discussions. I urge the youngest members of the list to seldom choose the rulings of this tiny court as the last word on anything, and instead check out your local library for answers to certainly the greater questions in life, and probably anything not pertaining to Classic Computers. John A. From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 20 11:01:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:50 2005 Subject: Intellectual 'PROPERTY' In-Reply-To: <200301201407.GAA07934@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > I coined the term "Indigen" as a good replacement but a friend who is > > descended from the indigenous peoples of what is now known as North > > America pointed out to me that it sounds too close to "indigent". > > ... so she became indignant? Indeed. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From spedraja at mail.ono.es Mon Jan 20 12:43:10 2003 From: spedraja at mail.ono.es (SPC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:50 2005 Subject: IBM tape robot near to be dismounted References: Message-ID: <001f01c2bf8a$862ec7c0$0402a8c0@cavorita.net> Hello everybody. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jan 20 12:45:13 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:51 2005 Subject: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... In-Reply-To: <000301c2bfea$f694baf0$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Antonio Carlini > Sent: 19 January 2003 18:46 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... > > >Frankly, the 8800 is too big, but that is too small... > > Then I guess you need to aim for one of the VAX 4000 > series, but shipping on those will be pretty > expensive. You're not kidding - not so long back a local college I do work for decided to toss their 4000-500 plus RRD42 and TLZ06; fortunately I was there at the time with a suitably sized estate car (station wagon for our US readers) so 2 of us managed to lift it into the back. When I got home I had to completely strip it down in situ just to lift the bits out on my own and get it in the house. In my reseller days the 4000 series were delivered on a pallet with extra ramps to allow you to wheel the machine down to ground level and now I know why :) Spent a happy couple of hours or so tonight getting my Alpha 3000-400 and uVAX 3100-90 going again after a few months in storage, and I wish we could afford the power to have 2 webservers going at the same time! Since we moved into this house we've doubled our power requirements just for heating and lighting; 3 machines going at the same time hasn't helped, so an extra VAX sized load on things *definitely* won't help :) cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jan 20 12:46:23 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:52 2005 Subject: Got the second batch of -11 equipment In-Reply-To: <5C29D7D6-2BF4-11D7-B3F1-000393970B96@neurotica.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Dave McGuire > Sent: 19 January 2003 21:24 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Got the second batch of -11 equipment > > > panel. Are > > yours older drives? Maybe the panel was added later because getting > > the lid > > open without it is a right royal PITA....... > > They might be. Next time I'm in one of those racks I'll check the > manufacturing dates. ....and when I was downstairs reorganising some of the museum I forgot to check on my own RL02..... > > and NOW I'm thinking 'if I know it's a pain to get the lid off without > > the > > panel maybe I DID see some drives without it' :) > > Yeah...You can open the lid from a dead drive (or when it's > inconvenient to get power to it) by unscrewing the rear top lid, > lifting it up, and sliding it back a little bit. That is a real pain > though. Yep, I even remember doing it, so my other observations don't hold much water :) cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From mstein at crestline.ca Mon Jan 20 12:47:33 2003 From: mstein at crestline.ca (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:52 2005 Subject: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips Message-ID: <01C2C010.B913FDA0@MSE_D03> ----------------------Original Message------------------------ One question. Assuming the signal names are conventional, that's the same pinout as the '154 decoder. And yet my (ancient, hardbacked) TI TTL book says that while the 74154 is a logical replacement, it's not a direct replacement (this implies to me a different pinout). One of the pinouts I received had the A inputs in the oposite order (20 = A0 .. 23 = A3). Can somebody please check which is correct. -tony ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Well, you'll probably get another dozen replies from the other helpful folks here, but the pinouts and logic tables are identical and 23=a0, 20=a3. I thought the same when I looked at the 9311, that it sure looked like a 74154 which was used everywhere, and that there must be a pinout or big characteristic difference to make it worth FSC's while (since they also made the '154, and TI, NSC and Motorola, who also made the 9311). But the only difference I can see is that the max propagation delay is less on the 9311; maybe someone else will see something else. mike From mhstein at canada.com Mon Jan 20 12:48:43 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:52 2005 Subject: Any Cromemco USERS? Message-ID: <01C2C01A.E708EE00@mse-d03> Just curious; is anybody actually using a Cromemco system out there, running either CDOS, Cromix or Unix? Or does anyone at least have one in running condition? mike From vance at neurotica.com Mon Jan 20 12:50:02 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:52 2005 Subject: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, Witchy wrote: > > >The DLT looks more like a TZ30 to me (still nice to have) and > > > > A good indication that it's a TZ30 is that it's a half-height drive. The > > TZ30 is the only half-height drive that uses Compact-Tapes. > > It's definitely a TZ30 as that was the only DLT tape option for uVAXen. The > thing that's puzzling me is the fact they've shoehorned an RX33 in there - I > thought the 3100-10 was the only machine to have floppy capability...... > I certainly never sold any and I don't remember it being an option for the > bigger machines. Pity it's front cover is missing too, but for 20-odd quid I > wouldn't complain :) That's not exactly right. I've seen everything between TK50Z's and DLT TZ87's in MicroVAX III-series machines. Peace... Sridhar From freddy at kotelna.sk Mon Jan 20 12:51:19 2003 From: freddy at kotelna.sk (Adrien Farkas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:52 2005 Subject: VMS command question and help, off-topic In-Reply-To: <20030119195843.GB14575@kotol.kotelna.sk> References: <20030118122747.GA6819@kotol.kotelna.sk> <000a01c2bfb6$eb0d0f90$cb87fe3e@athlon> <20030119195843.GB14575@kotol.kotelna.sk> Message-ID: <20030120071123.GA31587@kotol.kotelna.sk> Adrien Farkas (freddy@kotelna.sk) wrote : > > Anyway, I managed to get it using a download > > manager and I've managed to restore it to > > a floppy. I don't have a Multia so I won't > > be able to test it. I can either dig out > > rawread or try using dd on my Solaris > > box - just let me know which you would > > find easiest to deal with (and the exact dd > > command you would prefer, if that matters). > > dd method, please. sorry, didn't read the stuff properly, the command is # /etc/init.d/volmgt stop # dd if=/dev/rdiskette0 of=multia_v72.raw bs=1024 # /etc/init.d/volmgt start multia_v72.raw is the stuff I'm looking for. Cheers, -- freddy ...for more info 'finger freddy@kotol.kotelna.sk' From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jan 20 12:52:30 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:52 2005 Subject: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: vance@neurotica.com [mailto:vance@neurotica.com] > Sent: 20 January 2003 06:20 > To: Witchy > Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... > > > I certainly never sold any and I don't remember it being an > option for the > > bigger machines. Pity it's front cover is missing too, but for > 20-odd quid I > > wouldn't complain :) > > That's not exactly right. I've seen everything between TK50Z's and DLT > TZ87's in MicroVAX III-series machines. Sorry, I meant 3100 series uVAXen :) -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From kandres at epssecurity.com Mon Jan 20 12:53:41 2003 From: kandres at epssecurity.com (Kevin Andres) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:52 2005 Subject: PET 2001 Oddity - 6550 unobtainium! Message-ID: <099F935BC4E3B941984DED87DE9B482F0844EA@EPS-exchange.eps.sec.int.net> To all, (for fear of missing someone!) I have a PET with the feared 6550 Unobtainiums. It doesn't even get to a prompt, but I suspect the screen full of characters with some blinking and some that change upon an [ENTER] key is telling me a video RAM went south. As with most of everyone else, I wish to be independently wealthy, so I can devote ALL my time to these playthings, alas and alack this is not to be, a living must be earned! I have toyed with swapping a CD6264 and or multiples into the mother board even going so far as to quick doing an internet circuit board to accomodate them. Time is the major constraint here. I also remember an article or text which referenced adding perhaps a dynamic memory pack from another machine to the expander plug, with an appropriate R & C stobe assembly supplying what the PET didn't have. Whoa, memories!!!! I have looked at the serial number several times and always neglect to write it down. I early on, 1975 or there abouts, added a reset button to the front panel because of my tendency to lock the silly thing up with my incessant poking around. I know I also have several of the early tomes on the PET in the basement, along with a couple of Kilobaud articles reference the machine. Kev kandres@epssecurity.com -----Original Message----- From: cctech-request@classiccmp.org [SMTP:cctech-request@classiccmp.org] Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 2:56 AM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #320 - 48 msgs Send cctech mailing list submissions to cctech@classiccmp.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cctech-request@classiccmp.org You can reach the person managing the list at cctech-admin@classiccmp.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of cctech digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Got the second batch of -11 equipment (Bill Bradford) 2. Re: Got the second batch of -11 equipment (Dave McGuire) 3. Re: Update: BBC Acorn (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) 4. Re: PET 2001 oddity (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) 5. RE: MV3100 M90 / VAX 4100 (was: VXT X terminal question) (Antonio Carlini) 6. PET 2001 oddity - solved! (Adrian Vickers) 7. RE: Musings on BabyVAX video (Antonio Carlini) 8. RE: Hobbled NVAX (was: VXT X terminal question) (Antonio Carlini) 9. Re: PET 2001 oddity (Adrian Vickers) 10. Re: PET 2001 oddity (Adrian Vickers) 11. Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? (Kenneth Donchatz) 12. Re: Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? (Cameron Kaiser) 13. Re: PET 2001 oddity - solved! (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) 14. Re: PET 2001 oddity (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) 15. Re: PET 2001 oddity (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) 16. RE: Musings on BabyVAX video (Fred deBros) 17. Re: Update: BBC Acorn (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) 18. RE: Musings on BabyVAX video (Doc Shipley) 19. Re: VXT X terminal question (Jochen Kunz) 20. Re: VXT X terminal question (Jochen Kunz) 21. BBC Micro - assemblers - info needed (Philip Pemberton) 22. RE: Musings on BabyVAX video (Peter C. Wallace) 23. Re: IBM 5322 (Sellam Ismail) 24. SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? (David Holland) 25. PET 2001 oddity (M H Stein) 26. T&B Ansley IDC connectors (M H Stein) 27. PerSci Model 277 Dual 8" Floppy Drives - Info Needed (M H Stein) 28. Re: About Electronics Questions (Tony Duell) 29. RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... (Zane H. Healy) 30. Re: Dear Santa, I would like a Yamaha CX5M ... (Sellam Ismail) 31. Re: Apple 1 schematics (Tothwolf) 32. Re: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips (David Gesswein) 33. Re: DOS 1.0 (Tothwolf) 34. RE: Hobbled NVAX (Michael Sokolov) 35. New classic (Gareth Knight) 36. RE: VXT X terminal question (Michael Sokolov) 37. MCA Fast Ethernet Cards (vance@neurotica.com) 38. Re: SGI Discussions? (Brian Chase) 39. RE: VXT X terminal question (Antonio Carlini) 40. RE: Musings on BabyVAX video (r. 'bear' stricklin) 41. Re: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? (r. 'bear' stricklin) 42. RE: VXT X terminal question (Fred N. van Kempen) 43. Apple 1 schematics (chris) 44. RE: VXT X terminal question (Fred N. van Kempen) 45. RE: VXT X terminal question (Michael Sokolov) 46. Re: Apple 1 schematics (Eric Smith) 47. Re: Got the second batch of -11 equipment (John Honniball) 48. Re: Apple 1 schematics (John Honniball) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:11:17 -0600 From: Bill Bradford To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Got the second batch of -11 equipment Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Unfortunately, the actual "machine" (the guy didnt know that the MINC-11 was a system as well) is just an 11/23 with some RL01s. Pictures: http://www.pdp11.org/minc/01-18-03/ I have no idea if the RL01 disk packs are any good, but I've got one DEC-labled RT-11 v4.0, and one hand-labeled RT-11 v4.0C "patched to level F". The top RL01 is missing the hinged cover. Anybody want two RL02s (by the way, how the hell do I get the top covers open? The "switch" on the top wont budge), and two RL01s? Pickup in Austin, Texas.. Not a bad haul for a total of $30, even if I do just keep the 11/23 and the MINC-11 and the racks. Bill -- bill bradford mrbill@mrbill.net austin, texas --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:58:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Got the second batch of -11 equipment From: Dave McGuire To: mrbill@mrbill.net, cctech@classiccmp.org Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Saturday, January 18, 2003, at 04:11 PM, Bill Bradford wrote: > Anybody want two RL02s (by the way, how the hell do I get the top > covers > open? The "switch" on the top wont budge), and two RL01s? Pickup in > Austin, Texas.. The top door latch on an RL drive is locked by a solenoid. Apply power to the drive, make sure the "load" button is out, wait for a "click" (the load light will come on) then you should be able to squeeze that little slide handle and open the top cover. I would really like to have the RL02s but I have no idea how I'd get them from you. :-( -Dave -- Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:23:31 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?= Subject: Re: Update: BBC Acorn To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org >> just checked mine again and it's 25-ANC13-1000049 >> >Mine is 25-ANC13-1000034, and Rob O'Donnell said his is 25-ANC13-1000038. well if Rob's was the last then they obviously didn't do a very good job of numbering things :-) Unless Rob's was the last one released by Acorn, but they all sat in storage for a while... > Do either of you think you have a Disc 1 for it? no discs at all I'm afraid :-( hence why I was asking about whther there's a sensible ftp site to put them on so if a working set can be collected at least they can be archived somewhere (the same goes for manuals really, but scanning those would be a major pain I expect!) that used to be the problem - the hardware used to get thrown out but discs would lie around on shelves until someone did a bit of spring cleaning now and then; they would have been trashed seperately and maybe straight into a bin in the office :-( cheers Jules (who has too many systems that don't work for lack of necessary discs :-) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 11:37:37 GMT From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Jan 17, 18:18, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > Unfortunately, the PET seems to have developed an odd fault: It won't take > a BASIC program, and some keywords seem to be knackered... > So.... I figure the BASIC ROM has become slightly corrupted, OR I've got a > flakey memory chip which reads OK but doesn't write properly. The question > is, how to find out? Swap some of the RAM chips around and see if it makes a difference. If it does, particularly if it fixes it, swap them back -- it might just be a bad socket contact. Be careful with the RAM chips: if you have the type of PET I think you do, they're MOS Technology 6550, aka unobtainium, and unlike any other RAM chip. > 1) Can the BASIC ROM be swapped with one from, say, a 3032 or 4016? In > fact, which one IS the BASIC ROM? No. BASIC (and also the rest of the code, whether you call it a kernel or a monitor, or "stuff") is spread over several chips. And in the early PETs, the ROMs too are MOS Technology specials, and the different versions of PETs had different ROMs. In fact, there was an upgrade for the originals, because they didn't handle the IEEE routines properly, which made it impossible to use disks properly (amongst other things). > 2) If it's a dodgy memory chip, what's the best way of isolating it? I have > an oscilloscope, but nada skill in this sort of thing. > 3) If, as my money is on, it's the BASIC ROM, can it be replaced with an > EPROM - if so, there's a whole gamut of additional questions to follow.... If it's a later unit with 24-pin 2332 mask ROMs, then a TMS2532 EPROM can be used (not a 2732, nor other 2532s that don't have the TMS prefix). If it's got 28-pin MOS Technology MPS6540 ROMs, you'd need a carrier to shuffle some signals, at the very least, and possibly some logic to handle the multiple select lines. The good news, though, is that I have a chicklet-keyboard 2001-N as well, and if necessary, I could probably do a ROM dump for you (though IIRC it used to be on the 'net somewhere). I wouldn't need to move more than a few hundreweight of stuff to get at it ;-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Antonio Carlini" To: Subject: RE: MV3100 M90 / VAX 4100 (was: VXT X terminal question) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 11:48:41 -0000 Organization: me@home Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Wow! I thought the CQBIC was not populated on the KA50. I'm fairly sure the mainboards are identical (i.e. the same part number). I've never been inside a VAX 4000-100 so I've never had the chance to personally check this, but the last time I saw a parts list, the part numbers were the same. > Hmm. I do not suppose that this identity flag can be > permanently stored anywhere other than in the firmware flash > ROM. I'm sure DEC wouldn't want people to suddenly discover > that their machine shape-shifts when the NVRAM battery is > disconnected. So does this console test actually erase and > reprogram a sector in the firmware flash ROM, or is the > change only in effect until the next power cycle? It's stored in the flash EPROM - it rewrites it as part of the test (and warns you not to switch off while it is doing so). The change is permanent (until you run the test again and switch back). I doubt HP care whether customers know this or not now. I doubt they cared even back then: switching from a UV3100-90 to a VAX 4000-100 didn't get you anything extra (unless you paid for a new case) and it did cost you more in licence fees. Switching the other way disabled Qbus and DSSI, so although your licence cost you less, you got less for it. And if you wanted the cheaper licence you would have bought the cheaper machine anyway! Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:28:22 +0000 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org From: Adrian Vickers Subject: PET 2001 oddity - solved! Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org --=======74632786======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-671DF1C; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Woohoo! Turned out to be dead simple; yet another blown 2114. I figured the chip @ $0400 (i.e. the start of BASIC) was faulty, seeing as how the machine wouldn't take a single line of BASIC. So, I swapped the appropriate bank out to another bank - and presto! BASIC worked again. Having done this, I then swapped *one* of the two chips (according to the schematic, there are two chips for each $0400 block of memory - why is this?) back to its original spot, and presto again - no BASIC. Swapped that chip for the one remaining spare, and presto^3! BASIC again. So, now I need more 2114's as an insurance policy... Meanwhile, I thank the list *again* for their invaluable help (Ethan, Mike & Pete in particular in this case). What would I do without you (except preside over a collection of steadily failing machines)? -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com --=======74632786=======-- --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Antonio Carlini" To: Subject: RE: Musings on BabyVAX video Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:06:37 -0000 Organization: me@home Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > I thought so too. But what about SPX? Can it go into a > pre-M76 VS3100? And what about VS2K SPX? (It would of course > be very silly in practice, but I'm talking in principle.) SPX will go into KA42s - although I don't know for sure whether it was ever sold and supported. It will probably plug into a VS2K but I have no idea whether it will work (or whether anything would run on it without more code being written). > So I thought that KA42 had one big CDAL-to-EDAL bridge > upfront and the rest of the system except memory was EDAL. > But I could be wrong, maybe different subsystems have their > own independent connections to CDAL. You are probably right - I just threw in "as necessary" because I don't have a KA42 block diagram handy (in fact, I may not have one at all - there is not much info floating around on these and the early UVAX 3100 systems). > But if KA42 indeed has one big CDAL-to-EDAL bridge upfront, > the million dollar question becomes: why did the VS4000 M90 > dev team toil to design their own CDAL-to-EDAL bridge (CEAC) > if there already was one? The only plausible explanation I > could come up with is that perhaps on KA42 the CDAL-to-EDAL > bridge was inseparably integrated with the memory controller. I don't know why they rolled their own. Given that they used or modified existing designs where possible, I assume that there were good reasons. Perhaps the existing design was too slow or took up too much room (this latter consideration was definitely very important for the -90). > BTW, I have never found any references to a technical manual > for VS3100 (any > model) or for the corresponding early MV3100 models. It looks > like one never existed. Do you have any more info? No - and I could never find any even while I was inside DEC. There must have been *some* such documentation but it was nowhere I could find. > Does KA43 have memory on CDAL or on RDAL? I once had one in > my hands and when I looked on the board to see what chips it There's not a lot of technical info on the KA43 either! > Yeah, maybe that was the change. (Was that a typo or was > EDAQL a chip converting EDAL to SPX's internal bus?) Typo. > >http://www.research.compaq.com/wrl/DECarchives/DTJ/DTJ402/DTJ402SC.TXT > >But it talks about the X aspects of it and says nothing about VXT2000 hardware. Yes, I've read that one and it's not the one. I was sure that there was an article describing the VXT2000 itself, but I guess since I cannot find it either on the web or in my docs, I must have imagined it. Oh well. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Antonio Carlini" To: Subject: RE: Hobbled NVAX (was: VXT X terminal question) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:11:19 -0000 Organization: me@home Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > I assume the NVAX microcode was patched via its PCS facility > by the boot firmware, not by making a different NVAX die with > different microcode I hope, right? If so the abomination is I assume so too. > to be reversed by reflashing the boot ROM with non-hobbled > firmware (stolen from a friend with a non-hobbled machine). > They had flash ROMs like all other NVAXen, right? I doubt that non-hobbled firmware exists. I doubt you could just use the UV3100-96 firmware upgrade on a UV3100-85 and have it work. In fact, I guess the firmware is the same but it looks at the machine's hardware (e.g. size and config of backup cache or something like that) to determine what it is running on, and disables the VIC if it thinks the machine is a UV3100-85. The easiest thing to do would be to try reenabling the VIC. If that is not enough, you would have to find the bit of code that disables the VIC and NOP it out. I doubt that the code was protected too much: it would have been way beyond most customers' ability to alter it. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:49:24 +0000 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org From: Adrian Vickers Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org --=======54493991======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-671DF1C; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 06:41 18/01/2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: >--- Adrian Vickers wrote: > > I dug the 2001 out of the cupboard the other day... > >Can you give more information about *which* 2001 you have? There >are at least two major motherboard revisions for the static-RAM PETs. >They use different ROMs and RAMs. OK, I can but try.... According to the sticker on the back, this is a 2001-8BS. The motherboard layout appears to be the same as the one pictured on www.zimmers.net on the 4k/8k layout. I've taken some photos of my motherboard, which can now be found here: http://helmies.org.uk/images/cbm2001/mobo_front.jpg http://helmies.org.uk/images/cbm2001/mobo_back.jpg http://helmies.org.uk/images/cbm2001/mobo_side.jpg NOTE: Each picture is approx 449K = long download over a modem! >Also, as I have one, there are also models of 2001 that have _dynamic_ >RAMs. My 2001-N has 32K worth of 4116 chips (from the factory) and a >full-sized graphic keyboard. If it were for sale in Europe, it would >most likely been labelled a 3032, for comparison, but here in the States, >it says "2001" on the front. > >I bring it up because I _think_ you are talking about the original >chicklet-keyboard SRAM PET, but you didn't come right out and say so. Apologies, I didn't; I keep forgetting that the 2001 went through more development than perhaps any of the other PETs. Yes, it is a chicklet keyboard version, with static RAM (2114's) and original 28-pin MOS ROMs. > > > Unfortunately, the PET seems to have developed an odd fault: It won't > > take a BASIC program, and some keywords seem to be knackered... >. >. >. > > So.... I figure the BASIC ROM has become slightly corrupted, OR I've got > > a flakey memory chip... > > > > 1) Can the BASIC ROM be swapped with one from, say, a 3032 or 4016? > >Most likely not. If your 2001 has 2114 SRAMs, perhaps. There are >upgrade ROMs (BASIC 2.0, anyway) _for_ the 2001 Personally, I'd rather keep this one as original as possible, i.e. keep the original (buggy) ROMs. However, if it means keeping it working, then I'm prepared to substitute the MOS ROMs with a board/set of boards containing more modern EPROMs wired appropriately containing the original images. Not that I've got a clue how to go about doing that, mind... > > In fact, which one IS the BASIC ROM? > >BASIC lives in several ROMs, the Kernel lives in several ROMs. BASICs >prior to 4.0 occupied $C000-$DFFF, and the Kernel occupied $E000-$FFFF, >minus the PIAs and VIAs, etc., at $E800. BASIC 4.0 starts at $B000 >to add room for diskette commands. > >In my PET, $9000, $A000 and $B000 are filled with user-supplied firmware >(better machine-language monitor, BASIC extensions and a tape speeder). >These sorts of things, plus ROMs for word processors and other applications >were somewhat typical amongst serious PET users. Dunno if yours has >anything like that, but if you find ROMs where you expect none to be, >that's probably why. Well, there are no unpolulated sockets, so perhaps it's a fair bet that there's some extra stuff in there. Goodness knows what, though, all the ROMs are MOS 6540's. > > 2) If it's a dodgy memory chip, what's the best way of isolating it? I > > have an oscilloscope, but nada skill in this sort of thing. > >The typical way of testing RAMs in a C= service center was to rotate >a pair of them from bank to bank and see if the symptoms shift. It >was especially handy for detecting zero page problems. Figures :( I've had to do this once already to locate a broken 2114 (when I got the machine, it claimed only 1600 bytes of memory were free). Luckily, I have one more spare 2114 (I got two from someone on this list, I forget who [for which I apologise] and thank them (again) profusely, as if it is a broken 2114, there's a chance the second spare might be essential). Anyway, if it *is* a failing RAM chip, my guess is it's the one which sits near the bottom of BASIC memory, since the first line number causes a crash. Does anyone have a map showing the correlation between memory addresses & specific chips? If it's on the schematics, I'll be looking there next (so no need to answer that question). Ta for that, all good info! Thus, the order of the day is: 1) Try to determine which 2114 chip might have gone bad, either by sequenced swapping or by trying to be clever with the schematics. 2) If that doesn't fix it, re-seat all ROMs. 3) If that doesn't fix it, go to plan C - which doesn't exist yet... Also, I know this has been asked & answered before, but what's the best way of cleaning the board? It has more dust on it than I am properly comfortable with, and besides it looks horrible. I'm guessing that *ideally* it should be washed in distilled water with a very soft brush, then left in a warm place to dry thoroughly. OTOH, maybe alcohol would be a better idea? I have some disc head cleaning alcohol which would suffice - recommendations please! >Good luck, Thanks - I'm going to need that (in place of specific skills :) >P.S. - if you don't know about http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/ it's a >great site with schematics and firmware. I already knew of it, but had forgotten how useful it might be. Will check that out next. Ta! -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com --=======54493991=======-- --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:55:43 +0000 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org From: Adrian Vickers Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org --=======37E27F29======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-671DF1C; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 11:37 18/01/2003, you wrote: >On Jan 17, 18:18, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > > > Unfortunately, the PET seems to have developed an odd fault: It won't >take > > a BASIC program, and some keywords seem to be knackered... > > > So.... I figure the BASIC ROM has become slightly corrupted, OR I've got >a > > flakey memory chip which reads OK but doesn't write properly. The >question > > is, how to find out? > >Swap some of the RAM chips around and see if it makes a difference. If it >does, particularly if it fixes it, swap them back -- it might just be a bad >socket contact. Be careful with the RAM chips: if you have the type of PET >I think you do, they're MOS Technology 6550, aka unobtainium, and unlike >any other RAM chip. Hi Pete, It's not *quite* as bad as all that, it uses 2114's. Although they're not made of unobtainum, they ARE made of "rareium" (or R@RE!ium on eBay - probably the *WOW* *L@@K* isotope, knowing my luck :). > > 1) Can the BASIC ROM be swapped with one from, say, a 3032 or 4016? In > > fact, which one IS the BASIC ROM? > >No. BASIC (and also the rest of the code, whether you call it a kernel or >a monitor, or "stuff") is spread over several chips. Damn, I just *knew* it wouldn't be that easy. > And in the early >PETs, the ROMs too are MOS Technology specials, and the different versions >of PETs had different ROMs. AFAICT, these are version 1 ROMs. Every socket is filled, and they're all MOS6540s. >If it's got 28-pin MOS Technology MPS6540 ROMs, you'd need a carrier to >shuffle some signals, at the very least, and possibly some logic to handle >the multiple select lines. Harrumph. Guess which one it has... Still, I've no fear of making carriers, etc. - albeit time constraints & lack of equipment will make it tough right now - at least until I can get my MicroMAT going. >The good news, though, is that I have a >chicklet-keyboard 2001-N as well, and if necessary, I could probably do a >ROM dump for you (though IIRC it used to be on the 'net somewhere). I >wouldn't need to move more than a few hundreweight of stuff to get at it >;-) That might be cool (and *snap* about the tons of stuff, although having seen your little collection I think you do have rather more to shift about than me!). However, let me try out the RAM swapping & chip re-seating first, and if that doesn't fix it, then we'll look into EPROMs & suchlike. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com --=======37E27F29=======-- --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 05:40:46 -0800 (PST) From: Kenneth Donchatz Subject: Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org --0-1341891654-1042897246=:19979 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have a 13 year old apple macintosh that works like a dream. It's loaded with programs, and this great little machine got me through law school and helped me launch my career. When my employer switched over to a compaq system, I could no longer use this machine to work on projects at home and was forced to pick up an etower package instead. For the last 5 years, it's sat in my basement waiting. Everything works perfectly, including the printer, and all of the parts are original. Any tips on where I might take this machine so that it can be used? It's a shame to let it sit here and rot. Ken Donchatz kendonchatz@yahoo.com Columbus, Ohio --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --0-1341891654-1042897246=:19979 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

I have a 13 year old apple macintosh that works like a dream.  It's loaded with programs, and this great little machine got me through law school and helped me launch my career.  When my employer switched over to a compaq system, I could no longer use this machine to work on projects at home and was forced to pick up an etower package instead.  For the last 5 years, it's sat in my basement waiting.  Everything works perfectly, including the printer, and all of the parts are original.  Any tips on where I might take this machine so that it can be used? It's a shame to let it sit here and rot.

Ken Donchatz

kendonchatz@yahoo.com

Columbus, Ohio


Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --0-1341891654-1042897246=:19979-- --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Cameron Kaiser Subject: Re: Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 06:09:47 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > I have a 13 year old apple macintosh that works like a dream. Which model? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Of course I run NetBSD. --------------------------------------------- ------- --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:34:45 GMT From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity - solved! Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Jan 18, 13:28, Adrian Vickers wrote: > Turned out to be dead simple; yet another blown 2114. > > I figured the chip @ $0400 (i.e. the start of BASIC) was faulty, seeing as > how the machine wouldn't take a single line of BASIC. So, I swapped the > appropriate bank out to another bank - and presto! BASIC worked again. Good! > Having done this, I then swapped *one* of the two chips (according to the > schematic, there are two chips for each $0400 block of memory - why is > this?) A 2114 is 1K x 4 bits wide, so they're used in pairs to make bytes. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:11:59 GMT From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Hi, Ade. On Jan 18, 12:55, Adrian Vickers wrote: > It's not *quite* as bad as all that, it uses 2114's. Although they're not > made of unobtainum, they ARE made of "rareium" (or R@RE!ium on eBay - > probably the *WOW* *L@@K* isotope, knowing my luck :). Good! If it *is* a RAM fault, and you can't find one at a reasonable price, let me know. I think I still have a small number spare. > AFAICT, these are version 1 ROMs. Every socket is filled, and they're all > MOS6540s. Drat. Let's hope it's not a ROM fault. Sadly, my copy of "The PET Revealed" with its mostly-legible (!) circuit diagrams, shows the later board with 2332s. But I do have a copy of the MPS6540 pinout somewhere. > Harrumph. Guess which one it has... > > Still, I've no fear of making carriers, etc. - albeit time constraints & > lack of equipment will make it tough right now - at least until I can get > my MicroMAT going. > > >The good news, though, is that I have a > >chicklet-keyboard 2001-N as well, and if necessary, I could probably do a > >ROM dump for you (though IIRC it used to be on the 'net somewhere). I > >wouldn't need to move more than a few hundreweight of stuff to get at it > >;-) > > That might be cool (and *snap* about the tons of stuff, although having > seen your little collection I think you do have rather more to shift about > than me!). However, let me try out the RAM swapping & chip re-seating > first, and if that doesn't fix it, then we'll look into EPROMs & suchlike. OK. Give me shout if you want me to start burrowing. Or come and pay a visit... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:29:23 GMT From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Jan 18, 12:49, Adrian Vickers wrote: > At 06:41 18/01/2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > >I bring it up because I _think_ you are talking about the original > >chicklet-keyboard SRAM PET, but you didn't come right out and say so. > > Apologies, I didn't; I keep forgetting that the 2001 went through more > development than perhaps any of the other PETs. Yes, it is a chicklet > keyboard version, with static RAM (2114's) and original 28-pin MOS ROMs. > Well, there are no unpolulated sockets, so perhaps it's a fair bet that > there's some extra stuff in there. Goodness knows what, though, all the > ROMs are MOS 6540's. Then there's no extras. The MOS Technology 6540 ROMs are half the capacity of the 2332s in later boards, so there are seven of them in a standard PET and no spare sockets. > Figures :( I've had to do this once already to locate a broken 2114 (when > I got the machine, it claimed only 1600 bytes of memory were free). > Luckily, I have one more spare 2114 (I got two from someone on this list, I > forget who [for which I apologise] and thank them (again) profusely, as if > it is a broken 2114, there's a chance the second spare might be essential). I think it was me (and I think you already said thankyou :-)) > Also, I know this has been asked & answered before, but what's the best way > of cleaning the board? It has more dust on it than I am properly > comfortable with, and besides it looks horrible. > > I'm guessing that *ideally* it should be washed in distilled water with a > very soft brush, then left in a warm place to dry thoroughly. OTOH, maybe > alcohol would be a better idea? I have some disc head cleaning alcohol > which would suffice - recommendations please! Start by vacuuming it with a powerful vacuum and a soft, small, paintbrush (about 1/2" - 1") to help disldge the dirt. You might not need to wash it after that. It's not too important for a board like this, but the air rushing through a plastic vacuum nozzle can generate a surprising amount of static, so ideally the nozzle should be conductive, and grounded. If you do wash it, use some detergent, do not get it too hot, rinse with distilled water and a *very small* amount of wetting agent (to help the water drain). Blowing off the excess with low-pressure compressed air and/or rinsing in IPA or meths (which mix with water and helps remove it) may also be a good idea. Do make sure you get all the water out of places like IC sockets, switches, and connectors, as residues may eventually lead to corrosion. In extreme cases, or where I've had a lot of boards to clean, I've used the dishwasher -- but do not let the dishwasher do the normal drying cycle as it's too hot for safety. Some dishwashers seem to use very hot water, too, and some types of PCB and some types of plastic don't like that. Don't use a dishwasher on boards that have non-sealed relays, transformers, paper labels, etc. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York --__--__-- Message: 16 From: "Fred deBros" To: Subject: RE: Musings on BabyVAX video Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:34:21 -0500 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org I'm pretty sure that a VS3100-76 with no graphics board *will* come up using onboard monochrome (use the green signal). I don't think I've ever actually used one this way, but I do know that the GPX and SPX options came with a little stick-on panel that said either "GPX" or "SPX" in about the right size and font to stick right after the "VAXstation 3100 M76" nameplate. Mine does and it is just a matter on which pin you pick it up in the back of the box! I'd have to go to my office to ck it again. Fred --__--__-- Message: 17 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:42:37 GMT From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Update: BBC Acorn Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Jan 18, 10:23, Jules Richardson wrote: > > Do either of you think you have a Disc 1 for it? > > no discs at all I'm afraid :-( hence why I was asking about whther there's a > sensible ftp site to put them on so if a working set can be collected at least > they can be archived somewhere (the same goes for manuals really, but scanning > those would be a major pain I expect!) Well, someone else has offered to copy Disc 1 for me. I've also found a few other people who have ARM Evaluation Systems, so once I get a good Disc 1, I'll put the set of six on my website (and if anyone from any of the Beeb sites wants to make a copy, that's fine by me). Any suggestions as to format to use for the images? I've also just been told that the production run of ARM (not ARM2) chips was 2000. I know some were used in-house for other types of development system (like the A500) and more were used for Springboard (an ISA card, the PC equivalent of the ARM Development System), so 50 or 100 seem likely numbers for the quantity of ARM Development Kits made to fit Beebs. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York --__--__-- Message: 18 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:09:30 -0600 (CST) From: Doc Shipley To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Musings on BabyVAX video Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > I thought so too. But what about SPX? Can it go into a > > pre-M76 VS3100? And what about VS2K SPX? (It would of course > > be very silly in practice, but I'm talking in principle.) > > SPX will go into KA42s - although I don't know for sure whether > it was ever sold and supported. It will probably plug into a > VS2K but I have no idea whether it will work (or whether anything > would run on it without more code being written). I'll look when I get home (next month), but I'm pretty sure one of my VS3100 m38 machines was labelled SPX from the factory. Doc --__--__-- Message: 19 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:21:03 +0100 From: Jochen Kunz To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: VXT X terminal question Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Fri, Jan 17, 2003 at 11:38:58PM -0000, Antonio Carlini wrote: > Obviously you have to have a Qbus extension cable and some way > of connecting it - the easiest way is a VAX 4000-1xx cab :-) Well, the enclosure is the same. It is only a set of additional connectors on the back an internal cabling. At least I interpreted pictures of a VAX4k105 this way. But all I need is the pinout. Building some cables is no problem and I have a QBus backplane from a dead and rotten BA23. > > Sad that I have not the QBus cabling for my MV3100m95. A 83 > > MHz NVAX (32 VUPs?) desktop VAX wirh QBus would be nice. > It would indeed. The VAX 4000-1xx range is something that > I only rarely got to play on. But there are plenty of > other Qbus boxes around. I have a MV II, MV III, MV3900, MV4k200, VAX4k300, VAX4k400 and a PDP11-73. Enough QBus boxen to play. OK. I miss a KA640 based machine. But none of them brings that power in that small footprint and is easy to interface to lots of storage, i.e. SCSI. -- tschu?, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz --__--__-- Message: 20 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:29:24 +0100 From: Jochen Kunz To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: VXT X terminal question Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Sat, Jan 18, 2003 at 10:50:58AM +0100, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > I have the Ultrix V4.50 source tree [no comment] and will be porting it to > the M76, *and* (which is my target) my beloved 4000-700A. Someone on the PUPS / TUHS list has ported 4.3BSD-Tahoe and / or 4.3BSD-Reno to the VAX4000-7xx. AFAIK he had some porblems with interrupts at autoconfig time, but got it running. -- tschu?, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz --__--__-- Message: 21 From: "Philip Pemberton" To: Subject: BBC Micro - assemblers - info needed Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:16:39 -0000 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Hi all, I've just downloaded three assemblers from the ROM archive at http://bbc.nvg.org . Catch is, none of them include manuals. I've got copies of: VASM65 v2.0E by Vida Rebus ASM 1.10 by SYSTEM (claims to be the "ASM 6502 Macro assembler V1.10", "Copyright (C) 1984 SYSTEM"). Contains text strings like "Press play", so may be a tape->ROM conversion. ROMAS 3.02 by TBK Associates (full copyright string = "ROMAS 3.02 (C)1985 TBK Associates - S.C." Has anyone here got any documentation for these assemblers? I'd like to get at least one of them to assemble *something*. Perhaps a "Hello World" program? Also, Vasm outputs Intel Hex files from what I can gather - does anyone here have an Intel Hex -> Binary converter for the BBC Micro? Finally, does anyone know how some discs were formatted so they were compatible with 40-track and 80-track disc drives? Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ --__--__-- Message: 22 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:07:36 -0800 (PST) From: "Peter C. Wallace" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Musings on BabyVAX video Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > I thought so too. But what about SPX? Can it go into a > > pre-M76 VS3100? And what about VS2K SPX? (It would of course > > be very silly in practice, but I'm talking in principle.) > > SPX will go into KA42s - although I don't know for sure whether > it was ever sold and supported. It will probably plug into a > VS2K but I have no idea whether it will work (or whether anything > would run on it without more code being written). I have a few VT1300's with SPX badges and SPX cards inside, so at least the Xterm verison of the KA42/SPX seems to have been supported... Peter Wallace --__--__-- Message: 23 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:23:06 -0800 (PST) From: Sellam Ismail To: Subject: Re: IBM 5322 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > The System 23 I briefly worked on (as in 'got inside') had a DE9 > connector for the printer IIRC. It was a _current loop_ serial port, and > of course the character set is EBCDIC (but as you say, that's a minor > problem). I was wondering what that connector was. Now I know :) > I think (based on the current loop on the PC Async card) that IBM's > convention was that transmiters were active and non-isolated, receivers > were passive and opto-isolated, but do check this before hooking > anything up. Cool, after the punch card project I actually know what you're talking about ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * --__--__-- Message: 24 Subject: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? From: David Holland To: Classic Computer Talk Date: 18 Jan 2003 13:07:13 -0500 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Wot about SGI Crimson's? (Or in my case, a Power Series frame, w/ Crimson boards in it) Or are they too new (and LARGE :-) ) for the list? (Now for the possibly Off List questions of my post) I'd like to get hold of a Reality Engine for it as mine (alas) only has a VGXT boardset. Anyone know where I could find one? I'd also be interested if anyone has interfaced a Sun Type 5 mouse to it, as they look like they use the same protocol, just one is +5v logic, the other is RS232? (Maxim's MAX232's sound vaguely useful, but they're hard to find around here in 1sie 2sie counts) (The optical mouse I have for it is in too bad a shape to be really usable anymore - the felts shot, and it sticks to the metal plate/mouse pad too much for my tastes.) The whole thing that torque's me off the worst about it is.. its 3x's bigger than my PC, and its 3x's quieter... :) Anyways, If I'm off list focus, someone point it out to me, and I'll hush, and wait for the Apple II stuff to respond too.. :-) David On Fri, 2003-01-17 at 23:19, Brian Chase wrote: > On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > It's not just on a system like that. Earlier this week I got my first SGI > > system, a nice little O2. It's about the crappiest of the O2's, but it's > > still a *very* nice UNIX workstation. I thought that it was doing OK at > > surfing until yesterday when I wanted to check something on gamespot, it > > absolutly crawled to a halt trying to render the pages (well the browser > > did, the rest of the system was nice and responsive). I swear it took close > > to 10 minutes to get to the third page (the one that had the data I was > > curious about). > > > > I think I'll now run the browser on my Linux box and retarget it to the > > SGI's desktop (at least until I get an Octane). > > I'll wait to get an Onyx. Actually, the Origin 2000s are quite lovely, > too. They're still really off topic for this list. > > -brian. > --__--__-- Message: 25 From: M H Stein To: "'ClassicComputers'" Subject: PET 2001 oddity Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:19:36 -0500 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Ethan: thanks for the info; I've never seen a dynamic RAM 2001N, although a friend of mine home-brewed a static > dynamic conversion. 4032s of course, but I take it you're talking about a real small-B/W-screen 2001. I sometimes toy with the idea of building a PET using modern chips; shouldn't be too big a deal (very low on my to-do list though). Adrian: Was working on adding my .02 to the discussion, but read on and saw that you're in business. If you can't find any locally, I've got several tubes of 2114s here in frosty Canada. And they are used in pairs because they're only 4 bits wide (x 1K). One of my PETs, with an MTU graphics board, is dead as well; this discussion just might motivate me to have a look at it. Good luck! mike --__--__-- Message: 26 From: M H Stein To: "'ClassicComputers'" Subject: T&B Ansley IDC connectors Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:25:29 -0500 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org ---------------Original Message--------------- Subject: T&B Ansley IDC connectors From: "Jeffrey H. Ingber" Date: 17 Jan 2003 19:17:20 -0500 Does anyone know where I can aquire the T&B ansley "light blue" IDC ribbon cable connectors that were used by MITS? Googling reveals that Tyco purchased this line of connectors in 2001, but I can't find any mention of T&B Ansley on their web site. Thanks, Jeff ------------------------------------------------------- Used to use a lot of these & have a few left; Exactly which ones are you looking for? mike --__--__-- Message: 27 From: M H Stein To: "'ClassicComputers'" Subject: PerSci Model 277 Dual 8" Floppy Drives - Info Needed Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:29:05 -0500 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org ---------------------Original Message------------------------- From: "Tim Myers" To: Subject: PerSci Model 277 Dual 8" Floppy Drives - Info Needed Does anyone have any info on these drives? I have some in a CP/M system (Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1), and they seem completely dead. They have an electric load mechanism, but when I insert a disk, nothing happens. Popped the case and can't see anything obviously out of place. Tim. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cromemco used these in early models of the System 3; not exactly the most reliable. Sorry to say, I scrapped several of them a year ago and, although I've got manuals for most Cromemco stuff I don't think I've got any docs on these. But I'll have a look and let you know if I find anything. Meanwhile, there are probably several people on this list who have them and could perhaps at least compare notes with ya. They are getting power? Good luck, mike --__--__-- Message: 28 From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Subject: Re: About Electronics Questions To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:32:58 +0000 (GMT) Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > The biggest thing however for anybody doing repair > is get all the doc's you can even before you start > repairing something.A schematic is a very useful Agreed (why do you think I have a few _thousand_ scheamtics/repair manuals...). However, the schematic is not always available (maybe not anywhere any more), so it can be useful to be able to make guesses and 'find your way aobut' without a schematic. Alas this comes with (a lot of) practice... > PS Caps are the first thing to go in any equiment > unless you let the magic smoke out first. Hmmm.. Not always. I've had a number of HP98x0 machines on the bench in the last few months. I've had to change _one_ electrolytic capacitor and about 20 TTL chipes (particularly 74Hxx parts). And we all know that 2114 RAM chips are often dead... -tony --__--__-- Message: 29 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:13:48 -0800 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org From: "Zane H. Healy" Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org >Didn't see one at a fiver. Saw >http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1484&item=23017 >94356 >which is claimed to be a UV3100-95. Assuming it is, then it's >a darned fast VAX (in VAX terms) and really well worth having. That's one nice VAX, I'm glad it's on the other side of the pond :^) >The DLT looks more like a TZ30 to me (still nice to have) and A good indication that it's a TZ30 is that it's a half-height drive. The TZ30 is the only half-height drive that uses Compact-Tapes. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | --__--__-- Message: 30 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:26:42 -0800 (PST) From: Sellam Ismail To: Subject: Re: Dear Santa, I would like a Yamaha CX5M ... Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > Anyone ever seen someone out there trying to get rid of a Yamaha CX5M? It's > about the only MSX machine I have significant curiosity about due to its > specialised music abilities. Yes, and I helped them get rid of it by taking it away for them ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * --__--__-- Message: 31 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:38:05 -0600 (CST) From: Tothwolf To: Classic Computer Subject: Re: Apple 1 schematics Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, chris wrote: > In reading my copy of Collectible Microcomputers (yes yes, you all get > it by now, I like the book... ok, I'll stop refering to it after > this)... I noticed in the Apple Computer section a mention of how > Apple's first customers were the folks that got schematics for the Apple > 1 when it was first shown at Home Brew. > > Although I already knew that they alledgedly gave out schematics... I > began to wonder A: did they really (probably) and B: do any copies exist > anywhere? > > I thought it might be a fun project to try an build an Apple 1 from the > schematics... just as the first users probably did. So, does anyone know > if they are available, or does anyone have a copy and might want to send > me a set? Or are copies just as elusive as the Apple 1 itself and there > is no shot in ever getting them. Ok, I guess its time I post on the list about this... I've been thinking about this very project for sometime. The main problems that I came up with are: 1. certain parts are difficult to find 2. ROM source and/or binary image availability 3. re-creating the pc boards The first problem should be possible to overcome either by finding a stock of surplus parts, or should significant demand exist, having the parts made by a company that specializes in fabricating out of production parts. I've actually looked into the later a couple times in the past, and the prices didn't seem to be out of line. I've even wondered if it would be possible to get a copy of the mask from Intel for say the i8008 or i4004 and have reproductions made. The second and third problems may be slightly more difficult to overcome. One option would be to find an Apple 1, dump the ROMs, carefully unsolder all the parts and scan each side of the cleaned pc boards. The scanned images can then be used to create gerber files. I personally don't have the funds to go out and buy an Apple 1, and I don't know of anyone who would give up one just for it to be taken to bits. Another option for the second and third problems is to contact Woz and see if he would be willing to help. I have so far restrained myself from emailing him, since I know he gets tons and tons of emails, including people asking him if he has an Apple 1 he could give them, etc. I'd imagine Woz would very much like to see the Apple 1 preserved, but it would probably take him quite a bit of time to find all the docs and info that we'd need. -Toth --__--__-- Message: 32 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:41:14 -0500 From: David Gesswein To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips Fairchild 9311 (4 bit -> 16 line decoder?) 1 of 16 decoder 1 : 0 2 : 1 3 : 2 4 : 3 5 : 4 6 : 5 7 : 6 8 : 7 9 : 8 10 : 9 11 : 10 12 : Gnd 13 : 11 14 : 12 15 : 13 16 : 14 17 : 15 18 : E1 19 : E2 20 : A3 21 : A2 22 : A1 23 : A0 24 : Vcc E1 and E2 both low to enable output. Outputs 0-15 are active low Fairchild 93L14 (latch?) Probably same as NSC http://www.national.com/ds/93/93L14.pdf Signetics 8273 (10 bit serial-in, parallel out shift register) 1 : Q6 2 : Q7 3 : Q8 4 : Q9 5 : Q10 6 : ClK1/ 7 : CLK2 8 : Gnd 9 : Clr/ 10 : Serial In 11 : Q1 12 : Q2 13 : Q3 14 : Q4 15 : Q5 16 : Vcc Clk2 low and clk1 works clk1 high and clk2 works clk1 feeds an inverter then is ored with clk2 and result inverted to clock the flip flops. David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights. --__--__-- Message: 33 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:53:42 -0600 (CST) From: Tothwolf To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: DOS 1.0 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Live Wire wrote: > > I do also memember Wordstar and it's arcane command sequences. Those > > commands persisted though, through a number of ordinary text editors > > for programmers & such. > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/joe-editor/ > > This is as close to wordstar and the WS CTRL-K-x command set I have > found. I used to use wordstar on a tiny portable computer with a 4 line > display to write asm for the amiga 500 and then dump it via the built in > modem. Joe is my favorite editor today, though I find myself living in > vi for the most part... I use 'joe' constantly myself. It's my day to day editor for editing source code. I have used vi and vim somewhat, but I've honestly not yet taken the time to learn vi as well as I should. I'm sure I must be missing out by not using vi (well, thats what other software developers tell me), but joe is fast and does what I need it to. Somewhere, I have a complete Wordstar set for the Apple II. IIRC, I pulled it and some other complete Apple II software from a trash pile back in 1998 or so. -Toth --__--__-- Message: 34 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 03 11:13:01 PST From: msokolov@ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Hobbled NVAX Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Antonio Carlini wrote: > I doubt that non-hobbled firmware exists. I doubt you > could just use the UV3100-96 firmware upgrade on a > UV3100-85 and have it work. In fact, I guess the firmware > is the same but it looks at the machine's hardware (e.g. > size and config of backup cache or something like that) > to determine what it is running on, and disables the VIC > if it thinks the machine is a UV3100-85. Umm, I don't think so. It looks like the firmware is the only difference between M85 and the equivalent M9x model and the hardware is the same. In this case flashing M9x firmware would obviously give you the M9x model. But even if the M85 board was really different in B-cache or something from all M9x models, I doubt that the firmware could detect this by "looking at the hardware". AFAIK it's the firmware that has to tell the chips how the board is configured, not the other way around. If indeed the hobbled and non-hobbled firmware are the same code, what it looks at to make the decision is most probably a flag in the second longword of the ROM. > The easiest thing to do would be to try reenabling the VIC. > If that is not enough, you would have to find the bit of code > that disables the VIC and NOP it out. Well, if it munges the microcode I would go for option 2 in any case. BTW, do you know for sure that it really munges the microcode and not just disables the VIC in the same way normal caches from CVAX onward can be enabled and disabled as you like? MS --__--__-- Message: 35 From: "Gareth Knight" To: Subject: New classic Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:20:36 -0000 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org http://c64upgra.de/c-one/s_pictures.htm First pictures of the CommodoreOne pre-production board are now online: ""the pictures section has been extended by 11 pictures of the pre-production board. Basic testing has already been done, all chips are responding positively to diagnostic access. A 100% test procedure will be developed this weekend." -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide | Team *AMIGA* member http://amiga.emugaming.com | http://www.amigau.com/aig/index.html --__--__-- Message: 36 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 03 11:28:06 PST From: msokolov@ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: VXT X terminal question Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Ugh. Make that V4.20, obviously. Development is done on my V4.5 box.. > > Shitty thing is, that I probably will also have to run a 4.2 system as > a second-step system for bootstrapping, and I dont have a 4.2/vax tk50 > or cd set. Why can't you compile and use the V4.20 kernel on your V4.50 system? BTW, have you tried booting VXT on different VS3100s? I would really like to use a KA43 for my own VXT if possible, but I need to know if it is or not. MS --__--__-- Message: 37 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:23:31 -0500 (EST) From: vance@neurotica.com To: cctalk@classiccmp.org, Subject: MCA Fast Ethernet Cards Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Would the people who wanted the PS/2 100Mbps ethernet cards send me an email? I have access to them now and can ship soon. Peace... Sridhar --__--__-- Message: 38 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:32:12 -0800 (PDT) From: Brian Chase To: Classic Computer Talk Subject: Re: SGI Discussions? Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On 18 Jan 2003, David Holland wrote: > Wot about SGI Crimson's? (Or in my case, a Power Series frame, w/ > Crimson boards in it) Or are they too new (and LARGE :-) ) for the > list? Pfft! You call that large!? There are plenty of folks on this list who'd mock the relatively dainty size of the SGI Power Series frames. There are people on the list with IBM mainframes, PDP-10s, big VAXen, and a few Crays. > (Now for the possibly Off List questions of my post) > > I'd like to get hold of a Reality Engine for it as mine (alas) only has > a VGXT boardset. Anyone know where I could find one? > > I'd also be interested if anyone has interfaced a Sun Type 5 mouse to > it, as they look like they use the same protocol, just one is +5v logic, > the other is RS232? (Maxim's MAX232's sound vaguely useful, but they're > hard to find around here in 1sie 2sie counts) > > (The optical mouse I have for it is in too bad a shape to be really > usable anymore - the felts shot, and it sticks to the metal plate/mouse > pad too much for my tastes.) I'll see if we have any spare older mice. I know at least with the Indy and Indigo2s onward they all used regular PS/2 mice. I'm not sure about the Onyx systems, or the gear predating the mid-1990s time frame. My introduction to SGI equipment came around 1994 or so. About a year ago my employer returned several pallets worth of Indigo2s and Indys (~80-100 systems) to SGI for trade ins on Octane2s. It took about 6 months for SGI to even bother to come and pick them up. I've a feeling they all ended up being dumpstered once they got back to SGI. Saving them was out of the question as a list of serial numbers had been given to SGI; because they were trade ins, they actually had to be traded in. It's too bad. On another note, perhaps more related to the list, the new building that the Computer History Museum is moving into is actually the old SGI headquarters on Shoreline Dr. in Mountain View. It's a lovely building; I can't wait until they get things prettied up and moved into the new location. -brian. --__--__-- Message: 39 From: "Antonio Carlini" To: Subject: RE: VXT X terminal question Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 20:51:41 -0000 Organization: me@home Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Well, the enclosure is the same. It is only a set of additional > connectors on the back an internal cabling. At least I interpreted > pictures of a VAX4k105 this way. But all I need is the pinout. > Building some cables is no problem and I have a QBus backplane > from a dead and rotten BA23. I have a UV3100-90 and I've been close to a VAX 4000-100 (it just wasn't mine). The VAX 4000-100 enclosure has a distinctive sloping part at the back which houses the Qbus (and DSSI?) connectors. I didn't get to look closely enough to see whether this housing is an add-on to the UV3100-90 enclosure or the whole case is a manufacturing modification of that enclosure. Either way, the standard shipping UV3100-90 enclosure does not have anywhere for Qbus and DSSI connectors. I'll look for pinouts if I can dig up the right docs. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org --__--__-- Message: 40 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:04:54 -0500 (EST) From: "r. 'bear' stricklin" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Musings on BabyVAX video Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Doc Shipley wrote: > I'll look when I get home (next month), but I'm pretty sure one of my > VS3100 m38 machines was labelled SPX from the factory. I just hauled home an m38 that had... an SPX installed. Right after I bought an SPX card for my m76, to replace the GPX in it. The two SPX cards are identical in every way (except possibly dustiness). ok r. --__--__-- Message: 41 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:08:55 -0500 (EST) From: "r. 'bear' stricklin" To: Classic Computer Talk Subject: Re: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, David Holland wrote: > (The optical mouse I have for it is in too bad a shape to be really > usable anymore - the felts shot, and it sticks to the metal plate/mouse > pad too much for my tastes.) Uh.. Or you could go spend $1 on some felt and glue at the craft store, and fix it. ok r. --__--__-- Message: 42 Subject: RE: VXT X terminal question Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:14:35 +0100 From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org All, Although I have both the M38 and M76 set up, I cant get the video part to work - tube (that is on a VXT2000 right now) doesn't seem to sync on either model. The M38 is standard, the M76 is the SPX model. Anyone have a clue? --fred --__--__-- Message: 43 Subject: Apple 1 schematics Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:22:30 -0500 From: chris To: "Classic Computer" Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org In reading my copy of Collectible Microcomputers (yes yes, you all get it by now, I like the book... ok, I'll stop refering to it after this)... I noticed in the Apple Computer section a mention of how Apple's first customers were the folks that got schematics for the Apple 1 when it was first shown at Home Brew. Although I already knew that they alledgedly gave out schematics... I began to wonder A: did they really (probably) and B: do any copies exist anywhere? I thought it might be a fun project to try an build an Apple 1 from the schematics... just as the first users probably did. So, does anyone know if they are available, or does anyone have a copy and might want to send me a set? Or are copies just as elusive as the Apple 1 itself and there is no shot in ever getting them. -chris --__--__-- Message: 44 Subject: RE: VXT X terminal question Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:23:32 +0100 From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Jochen writes: > Someone on the PUPS / TUHS list has ported 4.3BSD-Tahoe and / or > 4.3BSD-Reno to the VAX4000-7xx. AFAIK he had some porblems with > interrupts at autoconfig time, but got it running. Heh. This is not too hard, but *only* if he used the machine with a KFQSA (DSSI-to-MSCP) controller, rather than the onboard SHAC. It'd be a start, though. Michael, was this you? --fred --__--__-- Message: 45 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 03 13:44:31 PST From: msokolov@ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: VXT X terminal question Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > Someone on the PUPS / TUHS list has ported 4.3BSD-Tahoe and / or > > 4.3BSD-Reno to the VAX4000-7xx. AFAIK he had some porblems with > > interrupts at autoconfig time, but got it running. > Heh. This is not too hard, but *only* if he used the machine with > a KFQSA (DSSI-to-MSCP) controller, rather than the onboard SHAC. > > It'd be a start, though. Michael, was this you? Not me. My 4.3BSD suffix is Quasijarus, not Tahoe or Reno. But my opinion on SHAC is radically different from yours. SHAC is a darling beauty. It is a problem only for cheap OSes like NutBSD and Linsux. Since SHAC is a true CI host adapter with the true Generic VAX Port (GVP) it is perfectly supported by the SCA CI port driver present in every proper VAX OS with SCA such as Ultrix. Although DEC killed VAX Ultrix before MicroVAXen with SHAC came about, source examination shows that the Ultrix V4.20 CI port driver supports SHAC (on XMI). Some day I will lift the SCA code wholesale from Ultrix and plop it into 4.3BSD-Quasijarus. MS --__--__-- Message: 46 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:13:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Apple 1 schematics From: "Eric Smith" To: Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org chris asks about Apple I schematics. > Although I already knew that they alledgedly gave out schematics... I > began to wonder A: did they really (probably) and B: do any copies exist > anywhere? A: Yes. B: Google is your friend. > I thought it might be a fun project to try an build an Apple 1 from the > schematics... It's *extremely* difficult to find some of the Apple I parts, which have been out of production for over years. Particularly the seven 1024-bit MOS shift registers, and one hex-40-bit MOS shift register. > just as the first users probably did. Not quite, since they had a PCB. (Unless you plan to lay out a PCB yourself.) --__--__-- Message: 47 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:16:19 +0000 From: John Honniball Organization: Stoke Gifford Computer Museum To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Got the second batch of -11 equipment Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Bill Bradford wrote: > Anybody want two RL02s (by the way, how the hell do I get the top covers > open? The "switch" on the top wont budge), and two RL01s? If the RL02s are like the RL01, there's a little metal panel on the side, near the "switch". Unscrew that, and you should see the solenoid interlock mechanism. Fiddle with that, and the "switch" should open the top cover. You'll need to lock the heads down if you're going to ship the drives. There's a little metal flap below the head carriage, visible with the top cover open and no pack in the drive. A single screw holds it in the "open" position. Loosen the screw, turn the flap 90 degrees, then tighten the screw. The flap is now in front of the head carriage, preventing it from moving. > Pickup in Austin, Texas.. I know someone here in Bristol who'd take the RL02s, if they weren't so far away. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk --__--__-- Message: 48 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:19:34 +0000 From: John Honniball Organization: Stoke Gifford Computer Museum To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Apple 1 schematics Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org chris wrote: > Although I already knew that they alledgedly gave out schematics... I > began to wonder A: did they really (probably) and B: do any copies exist > anywhere? Parts of the Apple I schematics are shown in the second edition of "Fire In The Valley". Not enought to build a complete replica, though. You can see, however, that there's an option for installing either a 6502 CPU or a 6800. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk End of cctech Digest --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003 From WiIdcats at aol.com Mon Jan 20 12:54:54 2003 From: WiIdcats at aol.com (WiIdcats@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:52 2005 Subject: Found a NCR system 3400 BoatAnchor Message-ID: <16f.1975eb72.2b5d8b01@aol.com> did you ever sell this boat anchor? i have one i want to sell also. -Johnny -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030120/6711dddf/attachment.html From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jan 20 12:58:36 2003 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:52 2005 Subject: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? In-Reply-To: <1043074757.13594.13.camel@crusader> Message-ID: On Monday, January 20, 2003, at 09:59 AM, David Holland wrote: > Anyone got a PIC programmer they'd use for me? :-) I may be looking > to have someone program a couple of 16F28's here real soon. I have PIC programming capability here, and would be happy to burn some chips for you. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Mon Jan 20 13:02:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:52 2005 Subject: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C92C@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> I have several 3100's with diskette drive (both MFM and SCSI). --f > -----Original Message----- > From: Witchy [mailto:witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk] > Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 1:52 PM > To: vance@neurotica.com > Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: vance@neurotica.com [mailto:vance@neurotica.com] > > Sent: 20 January 2003 06:20 > > To: Witchy > > Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... > > > > > I certainly never sold any and I don't remember it being an > > option for the > > > bigger machines. Pity it's front cover is missing too, but for > > 20-odd quid I > > > wouldn't complain :) > > > > That's not exactly right. I've seen everything between > TK50Z's and DLT > > TZ87's in MicroVAX III-series machines. > > Sorry, I meant 3100 series uVAXen :) > > -- > adrian/witchy > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans > > From kth at srv.net Mon Jan 20 13:04:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:52 2005 Subject: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... References: Message-ID: <3E2C4DAA.9080009@srv.net> Witchy wrote: >>-----Original Message----- >>From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On >>Behalf Of Antonio Carlini >>Sent: 19 January 2003 18:46 >>To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... >> >> >> >>>Frankly, the 8800 is too big, but that is too small... >>> >>> >>Then I guess you need to aim for one of the VAX 4000 >>series, but shipping on those will be pretty >>expensive. >> >> > >You're not kidding - not so long back a local college I do work for decided >to toss their 4000-500 plus RRD42 and TLZ06; fortunately I was there at the >time with a suitably sized estate car (station wagon for our US readers) so >2 of us managed to lift it into the back. When I got home I had to >completely strip it down in situ just to lift the bits out on my own and get >it in the house. In my reseller days the 4000 series were delivered on a >pallet with extra ramps to allow you to wheel the machine down to ground >level and now I know why :) > >Spent a happy couple of hours or so tonight getting my Alpha 3000-400 and >uVAX 3100-90 going again after a few months in storage, and I wish we could >afford the power to have 2 webservers going at the same time! Since we moved >into this house we've doubled our power requirements just for heating and >lighting; 3 machines going at the same time hasn't helped, so an extra VAX >sized load on things *definitely* won't help :) > If you have electrical heating (as opposed to gas/coal/oil/...), then running the VAX will not cost any more. Electricity generates the same amount of heat per kilowatt, no matter how is used. It will not cost any more than running the electrical heating units for the same amount of power. Only problem would be moving the heat to the proper location, and regulating it. ;-) >cheers > > > From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 20 13:13:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:52 2005 Subject: Any Cromemco USERS? In-Reply-To: <01C2C01A.E708EE00@mse-d03> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, M H Stein wrote: > Just curious; is anybody actually using a Cromemco system > out there, running either CDOS, Cromix or Unix? Or does > anyone at least have one in running condition? I have a System/One in running condition (last I checked) running Cromix from the harddrive. I have two actually. One was exhibited at the first VCF but because of all the moving the hard drive got crashed :( To my knowledge, the other one is still running, but I haven't fired it up in years. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jan 20 13:21:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:52 2005 Subject: Need manuals for Electrim EDC-1000 and Dycam Model 1 ($$$) Message-ID: ----- Message Text ----- I have an outstanding bounty. I am seeking out manuals for the Electrim EDC-1000 and Dycam Model 1 computer imaging cameras circa late-80s/early-90s. If you have these manuals and want to earn a little extra cash, please contact me directly at . -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From arcarlini at iee.org Mon Jan 20 13:25:01 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:52 2005 Subject: VMS command question and help, off-topic In-Reply-To: <20030120071123.GA31587@kotol.kotelna.sk> Message-ID: <000201c2c0ba$22f421b0$cb87fe3e@athlon> > sorry, didn't read the stuff properly, the command is > > # /etc/init.d/volmgt stop > # dd if=/dev/rdiskette0 of=multia_v72.raw bs=1024 > # /etc/init.d/volmgt start > > multia_v72.raw is the stuff I'm looking for. That's OK - but thanks for the clarification anyway. Just as soon as the Ultra finishes installing Solaris 9 I'll generate the raw image and email it. Shouldn't be too long now! Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Mon Jan 20 13:28:01 2003 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:52 2005 Subject: Any Cromemco USERS? In-Reply-To: <01C2C01A.E708EE00@mse-d03> Message-ID: > Just curious; is anybody actually using a Cromemco system > out there, running either CDOS, Cromix or Unix? Or does > anyone at least have one in running condition? I have an IMSAI chasis stuffed with cromemco boards. I run CP/M on it... but I don't think there would be a reason it wouldn't run a cromemco OS. It has a CPUZ, a 16FDC, a 64KZ and a TU-ART in it. From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Mon Jan 20 13:49:01 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:52 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Malcontents, Ill-manners, ClassicCmp, and Me! References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030119120929.02b66c10@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <006c01c2c0bd$11e9c480$434a1942@starfury> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Sell" To: Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 12:13 PM Subject: Re: Malcontents, Ill-manners, ClassicCmp, and Me! > As a conservative Republican who voted for both Bushes, and will vote for > this one again, and as a Texan... As a Texan, and a Libertarian, statements like this really scare the livin' [insert expletive of choice] out of me! As a former Republican precinct chaiman, ballot judge, and county elector, I became very uncertain of the party's platform direction change in the mid '80s, and left it cold with the end of the Reagan presidency. Bush senior was a controlled wimp. "W" is little more than a mouthpiece for some very scary people; and, to quote a favorite movie passage: "...appears before congress like the little orphan boy, Oliver, saying: 'Please, Sir, I'd like some more...' " Presently, I vote independently -- supporting neither party... Cheers... Ed -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030120/10656a0a/attachment.html From pcw at mesanet.com Mon Jan 20 13:53:01 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:52 2005 Subject: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips In-Reply-To: <01C2C010.B913FDA0@MSE_D03> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, M H Stein wrote: > ----------------------Original Message------------------------ > One question. Assuming the signal names are conventional, that's the same > pinout as the '154 decoder. And yet my (ancient, hardbacked) TI TTL book > says that while the 74154 is a logical replacement, it's not a direct > replacement (this implies to me a different pinout). One of the pinouts I > received had the A inputs in the oposite order (20 = A0 .. 23 = A3). Can > somebody please check which is correct. > -tony > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Well, you'll probably get another dozen replies from the other helpful folks > here, but the pinouts and logic tables are identical and 23=a0, 20=a3. > I thought the same when I looked at the 9311, that it sure looked like a > 74154 which was used everywhere, and that there must be a pinout or > big characteristic difference to make it worth FSC's while (since they > also made the '154, and TI, NSC and Motorola, who also made the 9311). Didn't the 9311 pre-date the 74154? IICRC, a lot of the the 9300 series stuff got copied by TI (9300,9316 for example) when they got the synchronous is better message that Fairchild was promoting with the 9300 series... (wish I still had that Orange 9300 series designers guide) > > But the only difference I can see is that the max propagation delay is > less on the 9311; maybe someone else will see something else. > > mike > > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Mon Jan 20 13:58:00 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:52 2005 Subject: DOS1.0, 3.20, and the like... References: <20030117200853.E57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <4202.1042898628@www4.gmx.net> <20030118225345.GA2160@ickis.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <00a001c2c0be$5784b7b0$434a1942@starfury> Hello... Still looking. Someone sent me a reply in the list with a complete set of IBM PC-DOS 1.0 still in the package. I replied, but never saw either my reply or any answer come back. I'm still interested in buying, if I/we can make arrangements... Cheers! Ed From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Mon Jan 20 14:01:01 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:52 2005 Subject: DOS 3.20 References: <200301130001.SAA09649@caesar.cs.umn.edu> <004401c2bb2f$e88fcb30$434a1942@starfury> Message-ID: <00cb01c2c0be$c078d9e0$434a1942@starfury> > Lawrence > > I'm just tall enough to be shrinking again... 'Happens when ya gets "over > the hill..." Anyways, what would the package be worth to you? And, does > it have the manuals? (BTW: Are you related to Gen. Curtis LeMay?) > > Cheers! > > Ed > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Cc: > Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 06:01 PM > Subject: Re: DOS 3.20 > > > > Well, I have an IBM DOS 3.30 right here. Still in its original shrinkwrap. > > Just how tall are you? > > > > -Lawrence LeMay > > lemay@cs.umn.edu > > > > > I believe DOS 3.20 is what I was looking for. It came as original > software > > > for a Packard Bell 386/12T (don't remember the specific model name), and > I > > > used the accompanying book to teach myself DOS programming -- back in > > > 1991... The system had dual floppies (both sizes), a small hard drive, > no > > > sound except for the system speaker, and one of the first mass > production > > > .25 dpi monitors. I paid through the nose for the system at the time, > but > > > I'd likely give an arm and a leg for that old DOS manual... > > > > > > Cheers! > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 08:55 PM > > > Subject: Re: Old (5.25") PC software > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Ed Tillman wrote: > > > > > I dunno about these, but would anyone happen to have a copy of DOS > 2.x > > > or > > > > > 3.x (2.3 and/or 3.2 maybe) on 3.5 disks, nd with the accompanying > user > > > text > > > > > book? Some of the information in those old texts is still > applicable, > > > but > > > > > can't be found anywhere... > > > > > > > > There ain't no sech thing as 2.3 > > > > > > > > 2.xx was only available with 3.5" support in specially modified > versions > > > > for certain specific brands of machines (usually in version 2.11). > Even > > > > the disk format isn't standardized on those. > > > > > > > > 3.20 (internally it thinks that it is three point twenty, NOT two), is > the > > > > first version that includes 3.5" support (720K) without special > machine > > > > specific modifications. > > > > > > > > 2.11 and 3.31 are only available in versions that were intended for > > > > specific machines. 'Course in most cases, the only thing that is > > > > different is the code in MODE.COM, and sometimes FORMAT. > > > > > > > > If you have a machine with specific peculiarities, 3.31 is the hot > setup. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Mon Jan 20 14:03:00 2003 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen / Marian Capel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:52 2005 Subject: Core memory speeds In-Reply-To: <3E2B2E9D.3020902@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <3E2B2E9D.3020902@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <200301202109.41626.jos.mar@bluewin.ch> On Monday 20 January 2003 12:02 am, ben franchuk wrote: > Since I am building a classic TTL style computer, what was the access > and cycle time of core memory before it vanished and just when did it do > that? Also when did 74LS come out? I am aiming for late 70's early 80's > time frame here since this looks to be the transition stage from the the > old to the new. Ben My 1975 core memory products catalogue ( Philips components ) lists modules with cycle times ranging from 0.65 to 1.5 us ,both for 8kx18 stacks. My newest core memory stack sits in my Philips P856 : dated 1980, cycle time unknown. My own TTL computer, dated 1986, just uses 8kx8 SRAMs...... Jos Dreesen From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Jan 20 14:07:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:52 2005 Subject: ADMIN back on topic please References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030119120929.02b66c10@127.0.0.1> <006c01c2c0bd$11e9c480$434a1942@starfury> Message-ID: <015901c2c0bf$fbb19140$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 20 14:46:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:52 2005 Subject: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips In-Reply-To: <01C2C010.B913FDA0@MSE_D03> from "M H Stein" at Jan 19, 3 11:11:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 662 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030120/a57c3b62/attachment.ksh From stanb at dial.pipex.com Mon Jan 20 14:56:01 2003 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:52 2005 Subject: Intellectual 'PROPERTY' In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 19 Jan 2003 22:34:52 PST." Message-ID: <200301201146.LAA11881@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Sellam Ismail said: > I coined the term "Indigen" as a good replacement but a friend who is > descended from the indigenous peoples of what is now known as North > America pointed out to me that it sounds too close to "indigent". That's pretty much what the French called the natives of North America - "les indigenes". Of course they're not *really* indigenous, having walked over from Eastern Asia :-) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From donm at cts.com Mon Jan 20 15:03:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:52 2005 Subject: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, Witchy wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > Behalf Of Antonio Carlini > > Sent: 19 January 2003 18:46 > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... > > > > >Frankly, the 8800 is too big, but that is too small... > > > > Then I guess you need to aim for one of the VAX 4000 > > series, but shipping on those will be pretty > > expensive. > > You're not kidding - not so long back a local college I do work for decided > to toss their 4000-500 plus RRD42 and TLZ06; fortunately I was there at the > time with a suitably sized estate car (station wagon for our US readers) so Whatever happened to "shooting brake"? - don > 2 of us managed to lift it into the back. When I got home I had to > completely strip it down in situ just to lift the bits out on my own and get > it in the house. In my reseller days the 4000 series were delivered on a > pallet with extra ramps to allow you to wheel the machine down to ground > level and now I know why :) > > Spent a happy couple of hours or so tonight getting my Alpha 3000-400 and > uVAX 3100-90 going again after a few months in storage, and I wish we could > afford the power to have 2 webservers going at the same time! Since we moved > into this house we've doubled our power requirements just for heating and > lighting; 3 machines going at the same time hasn't helped, so an extra VAX > sized load on things *definitely* won't help :) > > cheers > > -- > adrian/witchy > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans > > From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Mon Jan 20 15:29:01 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:52 2005 Subject: Intellectual 'PROPERTY' Message-ID: <0301202132.AA06644@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Stan Barr wrote: > Of course they're not *really* indigenous, having walked over from > Eastern Asia :-) No, they did not walk over from Eastern Asia. They are descendants of Ka-in who was transported to this continent by helicopter (from E.DIN aka SHU.MER aka Iraq) when the Anunnaki sentenced him to exile for killing Abael. MS P.S. Yes, Ka-in, not Cain. Abael, not Abel. E.DIN, not Eden. SHU.MER, not Sumer. And yes, the Anunnaki ("Those Who from Heaven to Earth Came" in ancient Shumerian), not God. The Bible and the modern "scholars" got it all wrong. From stanb at dial.pipex.com Mon Jan 20 15:31:01 2003 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:52 2005 Subject: Intel 8751 Message-ID: <200301202133.VAA21015@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, To get back to computers for a change... While looking for some op-amp chips earlier I came across a couple of 8751s (labelled Intel '80). A quick google search failed to turn up a data sheet, anyone any ideas where I can look? -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jan 20 15:56:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: Intellectual 'PROPERTY' In-Reply-To: <0301202132.AA06644@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, Michael Sokolov wrote: > > Of course they're not *really* indigenous, having walked over from > > Eastern Asia :-) > No, they did not walk over from Eastern Asia. They are descendants of Ka-in who > was transported to this continent by helicopter (from E.DIN aka SHU.MER aka > Iraq) when the Anunnaki sentenced him to exile for killing Abael. > MS > P.S. Yes, Ka-in, not Cain. Abael, not Abel. E.DIN, not Eden. SHU.MER, not > Sumer. And yes, the Anunnaki ("Those Who from Heaven to Earth Came" in ancient > Shumerian), not God. The Bible and the modern "scholars" got it all wrong. Lewis S.B. Leakey, et al, claim a slightly different point of origin, based on the remains they found at the Olduvai gorge. Besides, many assert that life on this planet originated in the oceans. But whoever files the patent first gets the rights. (AG Bell v Gray?) From glenslick at hotmail.com Mon Jan 20 16:03:01 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: Intel 8751 Message-ID: Is it a 40-pin DIP package? OTP/EPROM version of an 8051. http://developer.intel.com/design/mcs51/cf_51.htm >From: Stan Barr >While looking for some op-amp chips earlier I came across a >couple of 8751s (labelled Intel '80). A quick google search >failed to turn up a data sheet, anyone any ideas where I can >look? _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8 is here: Try it free* for 2 months http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup From frustum at pacbell.net Mon Jan 20 16:06:01 2003 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: PerSci Model 277 Dual 8" Floppy Drives - Info Needed In-Reply-To: <001601c2be73$73e6d7a0$5b76033e@local.sunplan.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030120135614.01e6b5d0@postoffice.pacbell.net> At 09:57 PM 1/17/03 +0000, Tim Myers wrote: >Does anyone have any info on these drives? I have some in a CP/M system >(Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1), and they seem completely dead. They have an >electric load mechanism, but when I insert a disk, nothing happens. >Popped the case and can't see anything obviously out of place. > >Tim. I have the manual for that drive. My copy was published by processor tech, but it was just relabeled info from the original data sheets. It contains schematics for all the boards (something like 7) in the drive, and information on aligning and servicing the drive. it is quite a bit of information. I'm in the process of debugging a couple of helios drives, but the project has been stalled for a few months due to work demands and a lack of long-term debugging space. I have found a couple problems and the drives still doesn't work. The first problem was that a cap on one of the boards had developed a short, and when I turned power on, it would cause the voltage regulator for the +5 line to shut down, making further debugging hard. I ended up removing each board from the power supply until I figured out which one had a problem, then it was fairly easy to guess which component was the bad one (no marks, but the caps were the only parts going from power to ground. all other paths would have required at least two series parts to both develop shorts, which seemed unlikely). Another problem was a 74121 had an output go bad, making the part look like it was always triggered. This prevented the head from seeking to a different track (HOMEing to track 0 worked, though). One problem is that the schematics in the manual are for a different revision of the main board with all of the control logic. They are similar enough that the schematic helps, but different enough that you must double check everything. Please contact me off list and we can try and work out some sharing arrangement, or copies of specific sections. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jan 20 16:41:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: Intel 8751 Message-ID: <200301202244.OAA22358@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Stan Barr" > >Hi, > >To get back to computers for a change... > >While looking for some op-amp chips earlier I came across a >couple of 8751s (labelled Intel '80). A quick google search >failed to turn up a data sheet, anyone any ideas where I can >look? > > >-- >Cheers, >Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com > >The future was never like this! > > > Hi Stan These are the EPROM version of the 8051's. These can be programmed and used just like the 8031's in keyboards or used in place of a mask ROM 8051, when programmed. I don't recall if Intel published the programming specs for these but there are a lot of programmers that will program these ( often with special adapters :( ). I think Data I/O's don't need anything special other than the 40 pin socket. Look for 8051 family manuals. I think Intel stopped publishing programming specs when they had different flavors of EPROMs with similar names. They wanted to keep the programmer manufactures up to date without worrying about hobbiest blowing their parts up. Dwight From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Jan 20 17:28:01 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: Intel 8751 References: <200301202133.VAA21015@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <007301c2c0dc$25635480$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Stan Barr wrote: > While looking for some op-amp chips earlier I came across a > couple of 8751s (labelled Intel '80). A quick google search > failed to turn up a data sheet, anyone any ideas where I can > look? IIRC, the 8751 is an EPROM (windowed package) version of the 8051 MCU. The thing about the 8051 (and the 8052) is that it can also be used as a CPU - add a 74LS573 (or 74LS373) latch and a bit of decoding and you can disable the internal program memory and use external memory instead. I use 8051-derivatives a fair bit - Atmel's AT89S8252 is a particularly nice chip - basically an 8052 with 8k of internal FLASH memory and an SPI programming interface. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Mon Jan 20 17:31:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: PDP-11 on eBay Message-ID: <028401c2c0dc$728b8700$46f8b8ce@impac.com> I don't have anything to do with this auction, but I though some of you DEC fans might be interested: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &item=2302864132 Erik S. Klein www.vintage-computer.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030120/cfd4d816/attachment.html From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Jan 20 17:33:01 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: Apple 1 schematics References: Message-ID: <008901c2c0dc$bcc413a0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Tony Duell wrote: > I've never found a CAD program that's at all useful for this -- I use > pen and paper always... Ah, a man after my own heart :-) I always use pen and paper for the initial schematics for anything I design. Then I bring the schematic into either EAGLE or Protel Autotrax and then start routing the board. Or I just bodge the thing on stripboard, depends how tired/lazy (delete where appropriate) I am on that particular day . Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jan 20 17:48:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: Intel 8751 Message-ID: <200301202351.PAA22392@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Philip Pemberton" > >Stan Barr wrote: >> While looking for some op-amp chips earlier I came across a >> couple of 8751s (labelled Intel '80). A quick google search >> failed to turn up a data sheet, anyone any ideas where I can >> look? >IIRC, the 8751 is an EPROM (windowed package) version of the 8051 MCU. The >thing about the 8051 (and the 8052) is that it can also be used as a CPU - >add a 74LS573 (or 74LS373) latch and a bit of decoding and you can disable >the internal program memory and use external memory instead. This is the EA pin. It controls where the program memory is. The 8031 ( 8032 ) is the version that is sold to be used this way. As far as I know, the 8031's are just units that the mask part failed or overruns of mask 8051 parts. Early on, 8031's, with EPROMs were more common in keyboards and newer keyboards use just 8051's. Dwight I use >8051-derivatives a fair bit - Atmel's AT89S8252 is a particularly nice >chip - basically an 8052 with 8k of internal FLASH memory and an SPI >programming interface. > >Later. >-- >Phil. >philpem@dsl.pipex.com >http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ > > From Charles at socketcom.com Mon Jan 20 18:18:47 2003 From: Charles at socketcom.com (Charles Ader) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: Core memory speeds Message-ID: <0751EFBE597394499B68C730740E08280984CD@socket011.socketcomm.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Jos Dreesen / Marian Capel [mailto:jos.mar@bluewin.ch] > Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 12:10 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Core memory speeds > > > On Monday 20 January 2003 12:02 am, ben franchuk wrote: > > Since I am building a classic TTL style computer, > > what was the access and cycle time of core memory > > before it vanished and just when did it do that? > > Also when did 74LS come out? I am aiming for late > > 70's early 80's time frame here since this looks > > to be the transition stage from the the old to > > the new. Ben > > > My 1975 core memory products catalogue ( Philips components ) > lists modules with cycle times ranging from 0.65 to 1.5 us, > both for 8kx18 stacks. > > My newest core memory stack sits in my Philips P856 : > dated 1980, cycle time unknown. > > My own TTL computer, dated 1986, just uses 8kx8 SRAMs...... > > > Jos Dreesen > With core memory the general rule was the smaller the donut the faster the cycle. The real limiting factors have always been the physical size of the array of cores. The plane, a mat of wires with little teeny-tiny ferrite donuts at each intersection, looks electrically like a lot of inductors all strung in series. This is a good configuration for a low pass filter that we are going to put a very fast pulse through. The bottom line of all this is that even fast core memory tends have around 0.490us write cycle times. Read cycles are always twice the write cycle times. This means you need to read the core memory specs carefully. Be sure that you see the both read and write cycle times. If you can only find one it will most likely be the write cycle time. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Jan 20 18:37:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: PDP-11 on eBay In-Reply-To: <028401c2c0dc$728b8700$46f8b8ce@impac.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, Erik S. Klein wrote: > I don't have anything to do with this auction, but I though some of you > DEC fans might be interested: > > Ahh, a PDP-11/05, the one PDP-11 I'd really love to have; this one is a real beauty, too. Unfortunately, it's so complete that I'd not be able to give it a proper home. -brian. From loedman1 at juno.com Mon Jan 20 19:23:01 2003 From: loedman1 at juno.com (loedman1@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: Free stuff Message-ID: <20030120.172328.-24291.0.loedman1@juno.com> The following hard drives were delivered to me yesterday, much to my Wife's dismay, and are looking for homes. All are supposed to function and as far as I know have not been erased (hmmm) Free for the actual shipping cost. (1) Conner CP3000 (2) Seagate ST-125 (3) Maxtor 7213AT (4) Maxtor 7245AT (5) Maxtor LXT340A (6) Maxtor MXT540A (3) (7) Conner CFA340A (8) Seagate ST-225 (2) (9) Seagate ST-238R Also received a bunch of miscellaneous chips and cards that I need to sort and identify that will be available Rich Stephenson From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 20 20:06:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: Intel 8751 In-Reply-To: <200301202133.VAA21015@citadel.metropolis.local> from "Stan Barr" at Jan 20, 3 09:33:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1218 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030120/a6cfb460/attachment.ksh From rdd at rddavis.org Mon Jan 20 20:09:01 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: Help for Obedient Husbands (was: Free stuff) In-Reply-To: <20030120.172328.-24291.0.loedman1@juno.com> References: <20030120.172328.-24291.0.loedman1@juno.com> Message-ID: <20030121023756.GA24135@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe loedman1@juno.com, from writings of Mon, Jan 20, 2003 at 05:23:05PM -0800: > The following hard drives were delivered to me yesterday, much to my > Wife's dismay, and are looking for homes. All are supposed to function Oooohhh! ...does she makes you capitalize the 'W' in wife? ...poor chap. :-( Perhaps you need to find her a new home instead, and keep the hard drives, as you never know when you may need them. Or, you could keep her as well as the drives, but you may need the help of an assertiveness training course for that option... I think that an organization called OHA (Obedient Husbands Anonymous) may be able to help you. ;-) Best of luck! > Also received a bunch of miscellaneous chips and cards that I need to > sort and identify that will be available See above. You may be able to keep those as well... RDD -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From loedman1 at juno.com Mon Jan 20 22:12:01 2003 From: loedman1 at juno.com (loedman1@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: more free stuff Message-ID: <20030120.201246.-24291.1.loedman1@juno.com> Available cards (1) Genoa Systems Windows VGA Mod# 8500VL Rev:A " " Rev:G " " Phantom 32 Mod# 8900VL Rev:A (2) Audio PCI 9722 Sound Card (3) Creative Labs CT6030 Video Spigot for Windows (4) Media Vision Pro Graphics 1024 (5) BIBM-VIDE-500X Video DCI tv (6) Headland Technology VRAM 2 (1991) 650-0218-blank (7) Sigma Designs ReelMagic CD Rev:A1 (8) Spider Graphics Spider 64VLB (9) Seattle Computer Ram+(plus) SCP130C (four banks installed) Free to a good home ;-) More to follow, as I get the time Rich Stephenson loedman1@juno.com From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Jan 20 23:06:00 2003 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: Updates to the Little Orphan Tomy Tutor site Message-ID: <200301210519.VAA10698@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Updates have (finally) been made to the Little Orphan Tomy Tutor site. The Little Orphan page is devoted to the Texas Instruments' 99 series' close relative, the Tomy Tutor, containing general information, technical documentation, the only currently extant 'simulator' and photographs and type-in programs. Here are the new changes: * Tutti, the Tomy Tutor 'emulator' ('simulator') for the Commodore 64, is now upgraded to 0.3 with the beginnings of GBASIC support and a large number of bug fixes. * Type-in programs are now available, from simple educational examples to crazy hacks (tip of the hat to the Wizard Kludgefinder). * An exhaustive (?) GBASIC reference is now available, with a description of keywords and MONitor commands. * A new page, in progress, comparing the Texas Instruments series with the Tutor is now available. * A new front page tracks modification dates on files for easier navigation. * Additional technical notes on the 9918A(NL) on the hardware page. * Updates to the programming page to include GBASIC comparisons. * Custodial updates to the cartridge list, the Pyuuta page, and various link corrections. The site is located at http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/tomy/ Please mail me with corrections and comments. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- This signature is free of dihydrogen monoxide! Ban it now! www.dhmo.org ---- From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jan 20 23:56:49 2003 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: PDP-11 on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8F7AF64E-2D05-11D7-B496-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Monday, January 20, 2003, at 07:40 PM, Brian Chase wrote: >> I don't have anything to do with this auction, but I though some of >> you >> DEC fans might be interested: >> >> > > Ahh, a PDP-11/05, the one PDP-11 I'd really love to have; this one is a > real beauty, too. Unfortunately, it's so complete that I'd not be able > to give it a proper home. I have a PDP-11/05 chassis and *half* of the CPU. The 11/05 CPU consists of control and data path boards, and sadly, I have two of one and none of the other! (though I don't recall which) I have no idea how this happened. :-( -Dave -- Dave McGuire "Wear whatever you want...Just don't be surprised St. Petersburg, FL if you wind up with a blow-gun dart in your prosthetic boobies." -Kurt Huhn From jss at subatomix.com Tue Jan 21 05:14:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: 11/34 PSU (Was: RK07 repairable?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <941162641.20030121051758@subatomix.com> On Friday, January 17, 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > One tip. If you have the 'bricks', make up an extension cable -- 8 pin > mate-n-lock plug to socket, all pins wired. You can run the 'bricks' > outside the box then, for short periods with low load How low of a load can I go with the 11/34 bricks? (I want to start working on my 11/34 soon! It sounds like I can still do this with my very limited electronics knowledge.) -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Tue Jan 21 05:24:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? Message-ID: <521753611.20030121052749@subatomix.com> The goal: extremely localized, high-velocity stream of air. I want to remove dust and crud from those impossible nooks and crannies of classiccmps. Current solution: canned air - expensive, doesn't work well after one or two minutes of spraying, not really high enough velocity. Bad. Other options: - Shop-Vac in reverse operation, fitted with custom cable? - Compressor? (I don't know much about these). - Better, cheaper canned air (does it exist)? - Dust-removing nano-bots? (jk) Discuss, please. What do *you* use instead of consumer canned air? -- Jeffrey Sharp From jkunz at maja.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Jan 21 06:29:00 2003 From: jkunz at maja.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? In-Reply-To: <521753611.20030121052749@subatomix.com> References: <521753611.20030121052749@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <20030121124659.GA503@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 05:27:49AM -0600, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > Discuss, please. What do *you* use instead of consumer canned air? - Brush and vacuum cleaner. - Compressor. Use one that runs without oil. Some compressors need oil to run and are "contaminating" the air with it. Somtimes there are litle extra devices on the compressor to put a bit of oil into the air. Air driven machines need it. But it is not good for electronics. - Sometimes warm water and a brush to "simulate" a dishwasher. See the endless dishwasher discussion. Soak PCBs after washing in Isoprop and let it dry for some days. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From joe_web at worldonline.fr Tue Jan 21 06:51:15 2003 From: joe_web at worldonline.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=EBl_Weber?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: Commodore Collection References: <5.2.0.9.2.20030120214532.00bd24b8@popmail.voicenet.com> Message-ID: <000b01c2c14c$a59cff00$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> who many do you want for all? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Ehrich" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 3:46 AM Subject: Fwd: Commodore Collection > In case anyone is interested: > > >From: DA Floyd > >Subject: Commodore Collection > >To: COMMODOR@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > >Hello everyone > > > >I have a collection of vintage computers, including a significant > >Commodore collection including a C64's, C128, Plus 4, Vic's, Commodore > >monitor, printer, etc. I also have Apples, TI's, Timex Sinclair's and > >IBM's. I want to sell it all...anyone have any suggestions of where I can > >go to sell this stuff? > > > >Thanks > > > >Duane A. Floyd > >dfloyd1009@cs.com > From GOOI at oce.nl Tue Jan 21 07:14:01 2003 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: 11/34 PSU (Was: RK07 repairable?) Message-ID: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF6410CBAA8@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> AFAIK, the H7xx power bricks of the 11/34 (among others) work without any load. At least that is the way I repaired 2 of those up till now. When the voltage output is present (again), adjust it to the nominal value (without load). Expect a small adjustment of the output voltage when the brick is installed and connected in the PDP-11. Hint: make a note near the opening from where you adjust the potentiometer. It saves some sweat on your forehead when you think "which direction and how much do I turn the screwdriver?". success, - Henk. > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeffrey Sharp [mailto:jss@subatomix.com] > Sent: dinsdag 21 januari 2003 12:18 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: 11/34 PSU (Was: RK07 repairable?) > > > On Friday, January 17, 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > One tip. If you have the 'bricks', make up an extension > cable -- 8 pin > > mate-n-lock plug to socket, all pins wired. You can run the 'bricks' > > outside the box then, for short periods with low load > > How low of a load can I go with the 11/34 bricks? > > (I want to start working on my 11/34 soon! It sounds like I > can still do > this with my very limited electronics knowledge.) > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp > > From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Tue Jan 21 07:39:00 2003 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? In-Reply-To: <521753611.20030121052749@subatomix.com> References: <521753611.20030121052749@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <64346.213.250.80.211.1043156529.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Jeffrey Sharp said: > - Compressor? (I don't know much about these). Compressor. Works wonders for dust and good for removing those extra TTL-chips from circuit boards. Canned air is (unless you're "in the field") useless. Couple of shots and that's it. -- jht From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Jan 21 07:57:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? In-Reply-To: <521753611.20030121052749@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 03:27 AM, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > The goal: extremely localized, high-velocity stream of air. I want to > remove > dust and crud from those impossible nooks and crannies of classiccmps. > > Current solution: canned air - expensive, doesn't work well after one > or two > minutes of spraying, not really high enough velocity. Bad. > > Other options: > - Shop-Vac in reverse operation, fitted with custom cable? Beware static!!! > - Compressor? (I don't know much about these). Compressors can add very small ammounts of oil to the air, thus SCUBA divers fill don't fill their tanks at the local gas station but instead us special compressors. > - Better, cheaper canned air (does it exist)? > - Dust-removing nano-bots? (jk) > > Discuss, please. What do *you* use instead of consumer canned air? > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp > > From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Tue Jan 21 07:59:00 2003 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: Commodore Collection In-Reply-To: <000b01c2c14c$a59cff00$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20030120214532.00bd24b8@popmail.voicenet.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030121090147.02017e70@pop-server> At 01:57 PM 1/21/2003 +0100, you wrote: >who many do you want for all? These questions should go to the original poster. > >From: DA Floyd > >Subject: Commodore Collection > >To: COMMODOR@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Gene Ehrich" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 3:46 AM >Subject: Fwd: Commodore Collection > > > > In case anyone is interested: > > > > >From: DA Floyd > > >Subject: Commodore Collection > > >To: COMMODOR@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > > > >Hello everyone > > > > > >I have a collection of vintage computers, including a significant > > >Commodore collection including a C64's, C128, Plus 4, Vic's, Commodore > > >monitor, printer, etc. I also have Apples, TI's, Timex Sinclair's and > > >IBM's. I want to sell it all...anyone have any suggestions of where I >can > > >go to sell this stuff? > > > > > >Thanks > > > > > >Duane A. Floyd > > >dfloyd1009@cs.com > > http://www.voicenet.com/~generic From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Jan 21 08:08:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? References: Message-ID: <007901c2c156$c3e66640$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I have always used canned air, for lack of anything better on hand. But they expire way too quickly, so I have a group of about 8 cans sitting on my workbench, which takes up WAY too much real estate. I have been thinking about finding a compressor, but not sure how to know if it will have oil in the air. Another possible solution recently popped up. Someone at work showed me canned air - that is rechargable. The can comes with a "charging bay" which is a little tiny stand with a tiny compressor in it. You push the expired canister down on it and the compressor clicks on and recharges the can of air. This seems like a really great idea to me... but I haven't actually used one - just seen it, so I don't know if these have their own shortcomings. If not, I'd like to go buy one of these. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From dholland at woh.rr.com Tue Jan 21 08:15:01 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: SGI Crimson in WA state. Message-ID: <1043159097.1630.7.camel@crusader> Should anybody be interested.. www.meco.org has a SGI Crimson in WA state. REF NUM: [crimson] ITEM NAME: Crimson VGXT CPU PRICE [345.02] Description: With 1.2G disk, 256M Ram, VGXT Graphics, DAT, and CDROM. Shipping on the bloomin' thing put it out of my price range. (And made it cost more than its worth.) David From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Tue Jan 21 08:37:01 2003 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: Intel 8212 and 8216 or equiv. needed Message-ID: I've just finished building and checking out a minimal Intel MCS-85 SDK. Was fun to build and runs like a champ. Not bad for sitting in storage since 1979. The only annoyance was that the black anti-static foam had turned to crud and tarnished all of the IC pins. Anyway, now I would like to expand it a bit. The board and schematics call for 2 8212 address drivers (24 pin dip) and 5 8216 buss buffers (16 pin dip) to drive the interface to the breadboarding area. All of the other chips on the board have 1977 or 1978 date codes so, if possible, it would be fun to get matching chips. If these things are "hen's teeth", then I'll take whatever I can get. Thanks, Bill From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Jan 21 08:38:01 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00be01c2c15b$06cf2a60$020010ac@k4jcw> There are oil extractors that remove oil, water, and down to .5 micron particles. You'll pay for such filters. SCUBA tanks are actually a decent way to go, with a $100 or so initial expense. You can buy used 80CF tanks for $25 or so. These can be refilled for about $8 at any SCUBA shop. You'll have to get periodic visual inspection, and a hydro test every 5 years or so. Buy a used regulator through your local newspaper or sellers magazine (we have one that comes out every Tuesday that's several hundred pages). 80CF will go a long way, assuming you don't just get down on the nozzle and let it run. And it will be very clean and pure. Our dive shop has a massive filtration system. The other reason, by the way, that divers don't fill at the local gas station is you can't get 3000PSI, and the risk of carbon monoxide and such getting into the tank. At depth, that stuff will kill you faster than licking 220VAC mains. Most dive shops use electric compressors, and they have extractors for CO on them. There are some that use gas for portable fills, but they have carefully managed exhaust and intake systems. You can also buy bottled Nitrogen at your local welding shop. This isn't very cost effective, however. They charge about $20 to refill my 40CF Argon bottle for my solder paste dispenser. Nitrogen is cheaper, but they still have a minimum fill fee. I think it's around $10. And because the bottles have to be trackable, you'll either have to buy or lease from them, or keep up with your paper work. Purchase for my 40CF Argon bottle was about $70, filled, IIRC. The SCUBA tank is actually the most viable if you need portable air, too. You can buy a backpack harness for next to nothing, which makes a convienent carrying handle. SCUBA is accepted for transport everywhere, including through tunnels (unless it's changed, welding gasses are not. Or maybe it's just the flammable or oxidizers, dunno). And in most towns, it's easier to find a dive shop than it is a welding supply store. And the dive shop people are often friendlier. --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Ron Hudson > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 09:02 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: What's better than canned air? > > > > On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 03:27 AM, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > > The goal: extremely localized, high-velocity stream of air. > I want to > > remove > > dust and crud from those impossible nooks and crannies of > classiccmps. > > > > Current solution: canned air - expensive, doesn't work well > after one > > or two > > minutes of spraying, not really high enough velocity. Bad. > > > > Other options: > > - Shop-Vac in reverse operation, fitted with custom cable? > > Beware static!!! > > > - Compressor? (I don't know much about these). > > Compressors can add very small ammounts of oil to the air, thus SCUBA > divers fill don't > fill their tanks at the local gas station but instead us special > compressors. > > > - Better, cheaper canned air (does it exist)? > > - Dust-removing nano-bots? (jk) > > > > Discuss, please. What do *you* use instead of consumer canned air? > > > > -- > > Jeffrey Sharp > > > > > From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Jan 21 08:50:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? In-Reply-To: <521753611.20030121052749@subatomix.com> Message-ID: > Discuss, please. What do *you* use instead of consumer canned air? I use a tool for getting the snot out of babies. Seriously, this tool is essentially a very fancy turkey baster - a baseball sized hollow rubber bladder at one end, and a long stainless tube on the other. Advantages? Very reliable - nothing to break. Works for blowing and sucking. Easy to control. Disadvantages? Tired hands. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Jan 21 09:21:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? References: <00be01c2c15b$06cf2a60$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <002501c2c160$fb1e8de0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> A SCUBA tank is a great idea! Don't know why I didn't think of that. But I wouldn't use my normal tank, my luck I'd blow off a ton of dec boards and forget, then be rather nonplussed when I got to depth. Wonder what's a good source of a spray nozzel that has a clicky button on the nozzel. Grainger perhaps? Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Tue Jan 21 09:42:01 2003 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? References: <00be01c2c15b$06cf2a60$020010ac@k4jcw> <002501c2c160$fb1e8de0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <008801c2c163$ed120760$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> You might also consider getting one of those automotive air tanks - you know the kind that you fill at the gas station (or from your own compressor) and keep in the trunk of your car to fill tires.. These go for about 20$ starting at 5to 20 gallons. These are just small compressor-like tanks- not the 12v tire compressors (which could be very handy fill them indoors if you don't have a compressor at all - and they go for 10-20$). These already have a "tire" type filler valve, regulator, pressure gauge, coiled plastic flex hose, and cleaning nozzle. Perfect for touching up pain scratches etc when used with an airbrush.. Another alternative might be those pressure canisters for fountain pop dispensers - good to 120psi only, but you'll have to buy the regulator, hose etc. I considered refilling an old extinguisher bottle, or spent propane (small welding cylinder) but changed my minds after reading all the warnings and threats of imprisonment for doing so. I would have preferred a more portable thermos flash sized unit, bit opted for an under-bench automotive air tank. I still loathingly buy the pricey, noxious, smelly pseudo-chloro-flouro "compressed air" cans sold for computer cleaning.. but now with the tank I'll be using them less. Those canned fumes can't be very healthy for you- read the warning on the can about using in a big room, heart attacks etc.. h From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Jan 21 09:44:01 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? In-Reply-To: <002501c2c160$fb1e8de0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <00be01c2c15b$06cf2a60$020010ac@k4jcw> <002501c2c160$fb1e8de0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: I have a small compressor that I bought at Costco for about $100 - it is a high-speed oiless unit for small jobs like finish nailers and low-demand air tools. I use it to fill auto tires and such... and to blow the gunk out of electronic and mechanical Stuff. It came with a nice regulator installed, and does not entrain oil or water. Another thing to consider are the small diapragm compressors for airbrushes. The one I used to have had a high-pressure shut-off so that it ran only when the air was flowing... only made a few PSI and was da bomb for electronic work. Larger aquarium pumps also will do nicely. Very high-pressure, high-velocity air streams can do a lot of damage - use a good regulator on your compressor, turned down to 15 or 20 PSI, and use a blow gun attachment with side relief holes and a rubber tip. ALSO mind the static build-up, which can be considerable during low-humidity operation. Cheers John From kapteynr at cboe.com Tue Jan 21 09:53:00 2003 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Kapteyn, Rob) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? Message-ID: <72F57ECC9732D611815100A0C984ED9C7C843A@msx1.cboe.com> Careful ! Compressed air is dry and in a dry environment the blowing action quickly generates a static charge. Most CC equipment is particularly sensitive to static damage. I prefer warm water and a brush -- sometimes with mild dishwashing soap. -Rob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jochen Kunz Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 6:47 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: What's better than canned air? On Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 05:27:49AM -0600, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > Discuss, please. What do *you* use instead of consumer canned air? - Brush and vacuum cleaner. - Compressor. Use one that runs without oil. Some compressors need oil to run and are "contaminating" the air with it. Somtimes there are litle extra devices on the compressor to put a bit of oil into the air. Air driven machines need it. But it is not good for electronics. - Sometimes warm water and a brush to "simulate" a dishwasher. See the endless dishwasher discussion. Soak PCBs after washing in Isoprop and let it dry for some days. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From dmabry at mich.com Tue Jan 21 10:36:01 2003 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? References: <00be01c2c15b$06cf2a60$020010ac@k4jcw> <002501c2c160$fb1e8de0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3E2D77B7.1040003@mich.com> I use a nozzle with a BC quick disconnect fitting on it. You can get these at most dive shops. Then use your regulator and connect the nozzle to the low pressure hose. Works great for lots of jobs. About 120psi clean air on that hose. Jay West wrote: > A SCUBA tank is a great idea! Don't know why I didn't think of that. But I > wouldn't use my normal tank, my luck I'd blow off a ton of dec boards and > forget, then be rather nonplussed when I got to depth. Wonder what's a good > source of a spray nozzel that has a clicky button on the nozzel. Grainger > perhaps? > > Jay West > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > . > -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Jan 21 11:33:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? Message-ID: <200301211736.JAA22876@clulw009.amd.com> Hi One should at a long bristle brush. Even with air, one still gets more effect from moving it around a little. I usually use a 1 inch wide paint brush. Dwight >From: "Jarkko Teppo" > > >Jeffrey Sharp said: >> - Compressor? (I don't know much about these). > >Compressor. Works wonders for dust and good for removing those extra >TTL-chips from circuit boards. > >Canned air is (unless you're "in the field") useless. Couple of shots >and that's it. > >-- >jht From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Jan 21 11:37:01 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: Intel 8212 and 8216 or equiv. needed Message-ID: <200301211740.JAA22880@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Bill Jameco still list both 8212's and 8216's. Dwight >From: "Bill Sudbrink" > >I've just finished building and checking out a minimal >Intel MCS-85 SDK. Was fun to build and runs like a champ. >Not bad for sitting in storage since 1979. The only >annoyance was that the black anti-static foam had turned >to crud and tarnished all of the IC pins. > >Anyway, now I would like to expand it a bit. The board >and schematics call for 2 8212 address drivers (24 pin dip) >and 5 8216 buss buffers (16 pin dip) to drive the interface >to the breadboarding area. All of the other chips on the >board have 1977 or 1978 date codes so, if possible, it >would be fun to get matching chips. If these things are >"hen's teeth", then I'll take whatever I can get. > >Thanks, >Bill > > From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Tue Jan 21 11:38:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? In-Reply-To: <3E2D77B7.1040003@mich.com> References: <00be01c2c15b$06cf2a60$020010ac@k4jcw> <002501c2c160$fb1e8de0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030121122909.00a2f350@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> The dive shops also sell some smaller and more convenient size tanks for portability. A 30 cubic foot tank is really easy to handle. They charge the same to fill a 30 as an 80 though. There are even smaller tanks too. Some day I plan to make a fill adapter to fill my 30 myself from my 80's. I'll have to be careful with that though. Fill very slowly to avoid heating which is one of the reasons they set the tanks in water when they fill them. Perhaps if the fill rig had a couple of small orifices by each tank, that would restrict the fill rate for safety. One of the dive supply catalogs used to list a tank transfer rig, but I could never actually find it. High pressure gasses can be very dangerous, so they may have stopped selling them. At 11:39 AM 1/21/03 -0500, you wrote: >I use a nozzle with a BC quick disconnect fitting on it. You can get >these at most dive shops. Then use your regulator and connect the nozzle >to the low pressure hose. Works great for lots of jobs. About 120psi >clean air on that hose. > >Jay West wrote: >>A SCUBA tank is a great idea! Don't know why I didn't think of that. But I >>wouldn't use my normal tank, my luck I'd blow off a ton of dec boards and >>forget, then be rather nonplussed when I got to depth. Wonder what's a good >>source of a spray nozzel that has a clicky button on the nozzel. Grainger >>perhaps? >>Jay West >>--- >>[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] >>. > > >-- >Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com >Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team >NACD #2093 > From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Tue Jan 21 11:41:01 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? In-Reply-To: <3E2D77B7.1040003@mich.com> References: <00be01c2c15b$06cf2a60$020010ac@k4jcw> <002501c2c160$fb1e8de0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030121124030.05a0ab60@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> If you buy a tank where they include free air for life, if anyone is still doing that, that will keep your air costs down. Or buy a fill card. By paying for many fills at one time, cost per fill is much less. At 11:39 AM 1/21/03 -0500, you wrote: >I use a nozzle with a BC quick disconnect fitting on it. You can get >these at most dive shops. Then use your regulator and connect the nozzle >to the low pressure hose. Works great for lots of jobs. About 120psi >clean air on that hose. > >Jay West wrote: >>A SCUBA tank is a great idea! Don't know why I didn't think of that. But I >>wouldn't use my normal tank, my luck I'd blow off a ton of dec boards and >>forget, then be rather nonplussed when I got to depth. Wonder what's a good >>source of a spray nozzel that has a clicky button on the nozzel. Grainger >>perhaps? >>Jay West >>--- >>[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] >>. > > >-- >Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com >Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team >NACD #2093 > From cb at mythtech.net Tue Jan 21 11:58:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? Message-ID: >Discuss, please. What do *you* use instead of consumer canned air? I bought a small air storage tank at Sears. Its a 12 gallon tank or something like that. I think it was about $40. At first I filled my tank at my fire house off our breathing air compressor, but that got to be a pain, so I bought a small air compressor (also at Sears, also about $40) The tank is good to about 200 PSI, and comes with a regulator assembly and hose. The compressor is good to 250 PSI so it fills it nicely. I added a coiled hose and blow gun attachment, and the system works quite well. The compressor is a tad loud, so sometimes I walk away and close my office door when it is filling (the tank does NOT have a blow off valve, so I can't walk away for too long or I risk overfilling, so mostly I just go deaf when it fills). The only things I don't like are it doesn't last very long. So I find I have to refill more often than I would like. Part of the rapid loss of air is because one of my connections isn't air tight, so if I leave the tank turned on, it slowly bleeds itself (it will go empty over night), but in general, a 12 gallon tank just doesn't last long (way longer than canned air however). Eventually I will replace it with a regular tank/compressor unit, but I'm not in any rush. Also, make sure you use some kind of a regulator so you can adjust pressure as needed. The first time I used mine, I had the pressure up to about 80 PSI and I went to blow the dust out of a floppy drive... I watched the drive head rip clean off and shoot out the other side and across the room. But the drive was real clean! I generally keep mine at about 15 to 20 PSI for most work, going up to about 40 if I am going after really encrusted dirt and dust on things that are sturdy (like a power supply fan). And the other major downside to all this... that dust has to go somewhere... so my work bench now has to get regular scrubbing to remove the crap that has gone airborne and resettled (and I'm afraid of what all winds up in my lungs). Because of this, I have tried to move to a vaccum for much of the initial dirt pickup, and switch to the air for the final details. -chris From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Jan 21 12:19:01 2003 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: Looking for... Message-ID: <20030121102054.K96151-100000@agora.rdrop.com> ..info/manuals on the following Apple ][ compatable boards: SEC Echo][ Speech Synth Mountain Hardware Apple Clock Thanks; -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From fernande at internet1.net Tue Jan 21 12:24:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? In-Reply-To: References: <00be01c2c15b$06cf2a60$020010ac@k4jcw> <002501c2c160$fb1e8de0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3E2D90FE.2010201@internet1.net> John Lawson wrote: > use a good regulator on your compressor, turned down to 15 or 20 PSI, and > use a blow gun attachment with side relief holes and a rubber tip. Why so low? If I'm using a compressor, I usually set it to 80psi. No problems yet! I'm not exactly cleaning core memory though. Side relief hole.... non of those either :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Jan 21 12:32:00 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? In-Reply-To: <3E2D90FE.2010201@internet1.net> Message-ID: <00c601c2c17b$d63aef80$020010ac@k4jcw> Side relief holes actually increase the volume of air, via a venturi effect. You do get reduced air speed, but more volume. They're also a safety feature of some kind, but damned if I've figure out how. --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Chad Fernandez > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 13:27 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: What's better than canned air? > > > John Lawson wrote: > > use a good regulator on your compressor, turned down to 15 > or 20 PSI, and > > use a blow gun attachment with side relief holes and a rubber tip. > > Why so low? If I'm using a compressor, I usually set it to > 80psi. No > problems yet! I'm not exactly cleaning core memory though. > > Side relief hole.... non of those either :-) > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > > From fernande at internet1.net Tue Jan 21 12:35:01 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? In-Reply-To: <521753611.20030121052749@subatomix.com> References: <521753611.20030121052749@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3E2D938E.7020102@internet1.net> Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > The goal: extremely localized, high-velocity stream of air. I want to remove > dust and crud from those impossible nooks and crannies of classiccmps. > > Current solution: canned air - expensive, doesn't work well after one or two > minutes of spraying, not really high enough velocity. Bad. > > Other options: > - Shop-Vac in reverse operation, fitted with custom cable? > - Compressor? (I don't know much about these). > - Better, cheaper canned air (does it exist)? > - Dust-removing nano-bots? (jk) > > Discuss, please. What do *you* use instead of consumer canned air? This really depends on what your cleaning. If it's a chassis piece of some sort, do whatever is handy. If it's a circuit board with many nooks and crannies, then vaccuum or an air compressor, then soap and water, and then maybe compressed air again. Sometimes I use alcohol, but I like water better. I don't have access to a compressor here at home. I'd have to go to my parents house for that. If I don't want to do that, I do the final rinse with alcohol. What I'm getting at is that if I have a board that has many many places for water to collect, I want to remove as much of the water as I can, right away. Alcohol, I don't wory about. sitting in fron of a fan is the last step. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Tue Jan 21 12:47:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? In-Reply-To: <00c601c2c17b$d63aef80$020010ac@k4jcw> References: <00c601c2c17b$d63aef80$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <3E2D9657.9020606@internet1.net> J.C.Wren wrote: > Side relief holes actually increase the volume of air, via a venturi > effect. You do get reduced air speed, but more volume. They're also a > safety feature of some kind, but damned if I've figure out how. > > --John It's so you can't blow air through your skin into your blood stream, by holding the end against some body part. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jan 21 12:51:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: > > Other options: > > - Shop-Vac in reverse operation, fitted with custom cable? > Beware static!!! LOW pressure, high volume > > - Compressor? (I don't know much about these). > Compressors can add very small ammounts of oil to the air, thus SCUBA > divers fill don't > fill their tanks at the local gas station but instead us special > compressors. gas stations also don't have >1000 PSI. just how much oil would it take to be a problem for electronics? > > - Better, cheaper canned air (does it exist)? scuba tanks are more than 10 times the pressure usable for air nozzles. But if you tap off of the primary regulator, you can get a little over 100 PSI, which works nicely for nozzles. You can get cheap air tanks for use at about 100 PSI, including crappy kits from JCWitless for converting freon bottles into air tanks. For the low pressure uses that wouldbe appropriate, you couldeven use a tire. > > - Dust-removing nano-bots? (jk) expensive, hard to find when you need one, and off-topic for this list. From stanb at dial.pipex.com Tue Jan 21 13:51:01 2003 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: Intel 8751 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 20 Jan 2003 21:33:11 GMT." <200301202133.VAA21015@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <200301210912.JAA23704@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Thanks for all the info everyone. I have some info on the 8051 somewhere so I'll dig that out. I don't know if I'll actually be doing anything with them but its nice to know what they are, and they could come in handy. (They're ceramic package with a rectangular quartz window BTW) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jan 21 13:54:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:53 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? In-Reply-To: <521753611.20030121052749@subatomix.com> Message-ID: >- Dust-removing nano-bots? (jk) This is my prefered method, though make sure you stay away from the early models. I'm still PO'd that the first batch I got ate through half the traces of the one board on my Lisa 2/5. Thankfully the nano-bot removing nano-bots in that first batch seemed to function perfectly. I don't normally use those, as I find it handier to just leave the dust-removing ones in place (it's a great way to prevent build-up). Zane (who is writting this from sometime in the future) -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Jan 21 14:34:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? Message-ID: <200301212036.MAA22963@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > >On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: >> > Other options: >> > - Shop-Vac in reverse operation, fitted with custom cable? >> Beware static!!! > >LOW pressure, high volume > >> > - Compressor? (I don't know much about these). >> Compressors can add very small ammounts of oil to the air, thus SCUBA >> divers fill don't >> fill their tanks at the local gas station but instead us special >> compressors. > >gas stations also don't have >1000 PSI. > ---snip--- Today, they have those little coin operated compressors. When they used to have the large tanks, they would often have them set to 200 PSI. My brother made the mistake once while filling a bicycle tire that you don't just hold the button for several seconds before checking. He'd gotten used to filling car tires. It when errrRRRAck-BANG! He really blew the tire. I had to ride home and get his car to pick him up. It even bent the rim. Dwight From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Jan 21 14:44:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: Fluke POD question Message-ID: <018501c2c18e$42515b20$2909dd40@oemcomputer> Does anyone know what the 9900 POD does? This was a question sent to me. Thanks From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jan 21 14:53:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? In-Reply-To: Jeffrey Sharp "What's better than canned air?" (Jan 21, 5:27) References: <521753611.20030121052749@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <10301212048.ZM464@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 21, 5:27, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > The goal: extremely localized, high-velocity stream of air. I want to remove > dust and crud from those impossible nooks and crannies of classiccmps. > > Current solution: canned air - expensive, doesn't work well after one or two > minutes of spraying, not really high enough velocity. Bad. Those cans get flipping cold, don't they? > Other options: > - Shop-Vac in reverse operation, fitted with custom cable? Beware static. And you may find the pressure isn't as high as you'd like. > - Better, cheaper canned air (does it exist)? Scuba gear. > - Dust-removing nano-bots? (jk) If you find any, let me know :-) Maybe we can retrain/reprogram them to repair stuff too. > - Compressor? (I don't know much about these). I've taken this out of order, because it's what I now use. I bought a small electric compressor and some air tools (used for other things than classic computers) for under UKP100 (about US$140). Things to watch out for: Compressors are fairly noisy animals. Mine is quiet as such things go, but still louder than the high-power vacuum cleaner I have. The vacuum is better than a blower to remove dust (think about where that dust will go). OTOH, a blower is much better for drying things off, or getting into things the vacuum+paintbrush can't. The vacuum, however, is better for spiders. Any fast-moving air stream can generate static. You can alleviate/prevent that by using a grounded metal nozzle. Even a small compressor will deliver pressures well in excess of 100 psi, and that's way too high for use on electronics. You can rip components off boards, never mind rip disk heads off. 20-40psi is perfectly adequate, and it will deliver higher velocity than most aerosol cans give you. One of the air tools I have is a small pistol-grip-style trigger-operated blow gun. You can buy them separately for about UKP3, or say $5. For example, see http://www.series4.co.uk/s4shop/en-gb/dept_123.html, or http://www.sip-group.com/PAGES/800x600%20PAGES/Air%20Tools.html (the one I use looks like 02130, under "Dustres" on that page). These are much easier than turning the Shop-Vac on and off. Many compressors include a small amount of oil in the airstream to lubricate air tools, deliberately added either by an oiler, or as a byproduct of the oil system used by the piston. However, you can get oil-less compressors perfectly easily, and oil any tools that need it by adding a drop in the inlet periodically, or fitting an oiler, or filter/water-collector/oiler combo, in the airline. They're not expensive. You can get cheap compressors without a receiver (air tank). Don't bother. You can also save a few $$$ (not many!) by buying one with a "regulator" which is really an adjustable blow-off valve to vent the excess air, rather than a proper pressure-reducing regulator. Given the choice, take the proper regulator; the compressor will usually also have a cut-off for the pump to stop it when it gets up to full pressure in the receiver. You *need* a *good* regulator to run an airbrush properly. If you want a compressor for other tools besides a blower, remember that the piston displacement, measured in cu.ft/min, is typically only about 2/3 the available air delivery you'll actually get, and a lot of hobbyist/low-usage compressor pumps are only rated for a 50% duty cycle (10 minutes on, 10 off, commonly). The pump gets HOT. If you ever plan on using something like a die grinder, you want a compressor rated for about three times (or more) the listed air consumption of the tool. If you buy quick-release couplings, be aware there are at least three standards, and they're not interchangeable. I'd recommend buying a small compressor. Mine is great, though I sometimes wish I'd bought a slightly bigger one. Whether you buy a scuba tank or a compressor, just think of the cost and inconvenience of ten cans of high-pressure air duster. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jan 21 14:55:04 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? In-Reply-To: chris "Re: What's better than canned air?" (Jan 21, 13:01) References: Message-ID: <10301212056.ZM467@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 21, 13:01, chris wrote: > The tank is good to about 200 PSI, and comes with a regulator assembly > and hose. The compressor is good to 250 PSI so it fills it nicely. > > I added a coiled hose and blow gun attachment, and the system works quite > well. The compressor is a tad loud, so sometimes I walk away and close my > office door when it is filling (the tank does NOT have a blow off valve, > so I can't walk away for too long or I risk overfilling, so mostly I just > go deaf when it fills). I was wondering about excess pressure the other day. I thought about a pressure switch to shut off the motor, but they seem to be quite expensive. Or am I just looking in the wrong places? Does anyone know where I could get a pressure switch suitable for about 120 psi, cheaply? > The only things I don't like are it doesn't last very long. So I find I > have to refill more often than I would like. Part of the rapid loss of > air is because one of my connections isn't air tight, so if I leave the > tank turned on, it slowly bleeds itself (it will go empty over night), Is it a screw fitting? Take it apart and wind 4"-6" of PTFE tape round it the male fitting. You can get the tape from any place that sells air accessories or vacuum pumps, or most plumbers suppliers. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From cb at mythtech.net Tue Jan 21 15:17:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? Message-ID: >> The only things I don't like are it doesn't last very long. So I find I >> have to refill more often than I would like. Part of the rapid loss of >> air is because one of my connections isn't air tight, so if I leave the >> tank turned on, it slowly bleeds itself (it will go empty over night), > >Is it a screw fitting? Take it apart and wind 4"-6" of PTFE tape round it >the male fitting. You can get the tape from any place that sells air >accessories or vacuum pumps, or most plumbers suppliers. I believe the leak is in one of the screw fittings. They didn't provide tape with the tank when I bought it, instead they provided a small tube of sealant, and the tube was WAY to small to do the job (barely enough to properly seal one fitting, much less the other 4 needed to complete the setup!). So I am sure the leak is just one of the fittings that I did with no tape or sealant. I've just never gotten around to buying the tape and taking it all back apart (about 2 or so years now that I have had the tank). Each time I think that I should run to the store and get a roll of tape... I figure I might as well just get a whole new compressor/tank combo so that I have a larger tank, and one that I can leave one and not worry about it blowing the tank... and then I think, I'll do just that, but I'll wait for a sale... then a sale comes, and I decide I don't want to spend the money... then I go to use my existing tank, forget to turn it off when done, and it leaks itself empty... and I think I should go to the store and get a roll of tape... and the cycle continues. -chris From jwillis at arielusa.com Tue Jan 21 15:21:00 2003 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: Wanted: TU8x drive, RA7x enclosure Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB73B@deathstar.arielnet.com> Wanted: TU8x (TU80, TU81, TU81+) tape drive RA7x enclosure/control panel From classiccmp at crash.com Tue Jan 21 15:34:01 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: Heathkit H-11A (LSI-11) on eBay Message-ID: <200301212137.h0LLbFg19418@io.crash.com> Be interesting to see what happens with this: Heathkit H-11A (DEC LSI-11) with no peripherals but lots of manuals and some software on paper tape and 8" floppy. Hey, the Buy It Now price is a very reasonable US$6,900! ;^) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2302242389&category=4193 Do I need to point out that if I had it, I wouldn't sell it? No connection to the seller, et cetera... --Steve. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 21 16:29:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: Heathkit H-11A (LSI-11) on eBay In-Reply-To: <200301212137.h0LLbFg19418@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <20030121223213.29278.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Steve Jones wrote: > Be interesting to see what happens with this: Heathkit H-11A > (DEC LSI-11) with no peripherals but lots of manuals and some > software on paper tape and 8" floppy. Wish I had the docs... got the box, but virtually nothing on paper. I do have at least one unassembled Heath I/O card (and several that _are_ assembled). Gotta spend some time twiddling with the H27 disk controller. I _think_ I have it sussed out at last. It works fine with an RXV11 and an RX01, but I've had nothing but troubles getting the Heath disks working. > Hey, the Buy It Now price is a very reasonable US$6,900! ;^) Hold me back! :-) I notice that the bid is nearly up to $1K. Does anyone on the list have any PDP-11 papertape? I don't mind image files of the data - I have punches and blank tape. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 21 16:32:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: Fluke POD question In-Reply-To: <018501c2c18e$42515b20$2909dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <20030121223507.31243.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Keys wrote: > Does anyone know what the 9900 POD does? This was a question sent to me. > Thanks 9900? When I think of Flukes and pods, I think of the 9010A. What's a 9900? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 21 16:42:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: Digital AXPpci33 "noname" questions Message-ID: <20030121224501.57134.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> I'm dusting off this old AXPpci33 motherboard of mine and ran into a few issues... I'm attempting to upgrade the firmware and I have the file from the Digital/Compaq/HP web site (Dec 2002 version), but the instructions don't match my situation. I don't have the ability to cobble up a boot floppy with OpenVMS (my DEC 4000 has no RX33 or equivalent), I don't seem to have a compatible network card to BOOTP it in, and the FAT floppy technique doesn't work with the firmware I have in there now. So... does anyone know where I can find a reference to which network cards are supported for network boot? I have all the common cards like NE2000s, 3C509s, 8013s, etc., and a few PCI cards. I even have a card in there now with a DEC 21143-PA chip, but the ROMs don't seem to like it. Alternatively, in a similar vein to what someone else recently requested for their Multia, can someone on the list make a raw disk image I can "dd" onto a blank floppy? The Unix technique on the HP webpage requires a Digital Unix binary program to convert the firmare utility file to some other format and I can't do it from Linux or Solaris. Thanks, -ethan P.S. - I also can't find any reference to the supported memory configurations of the AXPpci33 board - I have some parity 16MB SIMMs, giving me 64MB, but I'd like to use some of these parity 64MB SIMMs I have here from AIR motherboards (formerly CompuServe "CompuHosts"). Got a set of 4 ready to go, but it seems that few boards ever supported 64MB 72-pin memory. :-( __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From univac2 at earthlink.net Tue Jan 21 16:44:00 2003 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: Looking for... In-Reply-To: <20030121102054.K96151-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: on 1/21/03 12:22 PM, James Willing at jimw@agora.rdrop.com wrote: > ..info/manuals on the following Apple ][ compatable boards: > > SEC Echo][ Speech Synth I just picked up a platinum Apple IIe with an Echo ][ card in it Saturday! I also got the Echo speaker. If anyone has any information about it (ie, how to PROGRAM for it), I'd really like to hear it. Glad you mentioned that it is a speech synthesizer, since I didn't even know that. -- Owen Robertson From avickers at solutionengineers.com Tue Jan 21 16:57:00 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... In-Reply-To: <000301c2bfea$f694baf0$cb87fe3e@athlon> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030119015902.00b5daf0@slave> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030121225832.01f1cc90@slave> At 18:45 19/01/2003, you wrote: > >That's the one - and blimey, it's jumped nearly > >?21 since I looked (it was at ?5.19). > >Given its speed, it's still a bargain. It's up to ?100 now, and still 5 days to go... Just out of interest, what sort of value would this machine have (if it wasn't on eBay, that is)? Assume nothing more than hobbyist use, and no realistic money and/or wifely restrictions. -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Tue Jan 21 17:02:00 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: amstrad pcw available Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030120230054.01aacc88@mail.mosthosts.com> Hi.. is an Amstrad PCW (8512 I think) c/w printer of interest to anybody. From memory, it's a CP/M machine, but uses stupid little 3" discs (not 3.5") and originally came with a boot-up-into-wordprocessor disc... It's currently in my neigbours front yard waiting for the bin men, but I've a mind to rescue it. Apparently it works fine, just needs a new fuse. It's in Salford, England, btw .. Rob. From coredump at gifford.co.uk Tue Jan 21 17:09:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: amstrad pcw available References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030120230054.01aacc88@mail.mosthosts.com> Message-ID: <3E2DD40C.6070708@gifford.co.uk> Rob O'Donnell wrote: > Hi.. is an Amstrad PCW (8512 I think) c/w printer of interest to > anybody. From memory, it's a CP/M machine, Yes, that's right. Also ran LocoScript, a wordprocessing package. Z80 processor and 512k of memory. > but uses stupid little 3" discs (not 3.5") I have a C compiler somewhere for CP/M on those disks. Got a bunch of them at a car boot sale. The sellers thought I was nuts, selecting all the funny-sized disks out of a mixed pile of 3" and 3.5". > and originally came with a boot-up-into-wordprocessor disc... Right, that's LocoScript. > It's currently in my neigbours front yard waiting for the bin men, but > I've a mind to rescue it. Go on, you know you want to! -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Jan 21 17:22:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: Digital AXPpci33 "noname" questions In-Reply-To: <20030121224501.57134.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000301c2c1a4$5ec373e0$cb87fe3e@athlon> > I don't have the ability to cobble up a boot floppy with > OpenVMS (my DEC 4000 has no RX33 or equivalent), I don't seem > to have a compatible network card to BOOTP it in, and the FAT An RX33 is a 5-1/4" disk isn't it - in which case you are on your own :-) > So... does anyone know where I can find a reference to which > network cards are supported for network boot? I have all the My guess would be a DEC one, e.g. a DE500, and preferably not one that's too late (I cannot remember which of the 3 or 4 DE500-?? were the later ones). 21143 was the last gen of DEC PCI ethernet chip wasn't it? If so look for almost anything with a 21141 (IIRC). It probably does not even have to be a DEC card since almost all the machine will see will be the chip on the PCI bus. > chip, but the ROMs don't seem to like it. Alternatively, in > a similar vein to what someone else recently requested for > their Multia, can someone on the list make a raw disk image I > can "dd" onto a blank floppy? The Unix technique on the HP I have not heard back as to whether the Multia floppy image was a success, but I'll happily have another go. Point me at where the image you want is (otherwise I'm bound to pick the wrong one) and I'll see if I can build a floppy using OpenVMS on a VAX and then dd to produce an image I can email to you. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Jan 21 17:26:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030121225832.01f1cc90@slave> Message-ID: <000401c2c1a4$fc98e0f0$cb87fe3e@athlon> > It's up to ?100 now, and still 5 days to go... > > Just out of interest, what sort of value would this machine > have (if it > wasn't on eBay, that is)? Assume nothing more than hobbyist > use, and no > realistic money and/or wifely restrictions. Well a reseller would probably want ?1K or so, maybe more. You'd probably get it for ?50-?100 at an auction, and probably for a song at a scrapyard. But you'd have to wait for one to turn up. It's about the fastest VAX you can reasonably run at home (OK - the -96/98,-106/-108 and the VS4000-9x machines'd give it a run for its money, but not so's you'd notice). Noone's going to notice one extra piddly little VAX sitting there are they :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From glenslick at hotmail.com Tue Jan 21 17:28:00 2003 From: glenslick at hotmail.com (Glen S) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: Fluke POD question Message-ID: The 9010A is the main unit. It needs processor specific pods. The 9900 pod is for the 9900 processor. http://www.spies.com/~arcade/TE/ >From: Ethan Dicks > >--- Keys wrote: > > Does anyone know what the 9900 POD does? This was a question sent to >me. > > Thanks > >9900? When I think of Flukes and pods, I think of the 9010A. What's >a 9900? > >-ethan _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From univac2 at earthlink.net Tue Jan 21 17:31:01 2003 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: amstrad pcw available In-Reply-To: <3E2DD40C.6070708@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: on 1/21/03 5:13 PM, John Honniball at coredump@gifford.co.uk wrote: > Rob O'Donnell wrote: >> Hi.. is an Amstrad PCW (8512 I think) c/w printer of interest to >> anybody. From memory, it's a CP/M machine, > > Yes, that's right. Also ran LocoScript, a wordprocessing package. > Z80 processor and 512k of memory. That's interesting. I have one, but I thought it was strictly a word processor. Mine's in storage at the moment, because I don't have any software or OS for it. -- Owen Robertson From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Jan 21 17:51:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: Fluke POD question References: <20030121223507.31243.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <020f01c2c1a8$65927a00$2909dd40@oemcomputer> Not sure the question was put to me in an email I got today? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 4:35 PM Subject: Re: Fluke POD question > > --- Keys wrote: > > Does anyone know what the 9900 POD does? This was a question sent to me. > > Thanks > > 9900? When I think of Flukes and pods, I think of the 9010A. What's > a 9900? > > -ethan > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > From donm at cts.com Tue Jan 21 17:59:01 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? In-Reply-To: <007901c2c156$c3e66640$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Jay West wrote: > I have always used canned air, for lack of anything better on hand. But they > expire way too quickly, so I have a group of about 8 cans sitting on my > workbench, which takes up WAY too much real estate. > > I have been thinking about finding a compressor, but not sure how to know if > it will have oil in the air. Get a diaphram (vice piston) compressor. The only way it can have oil in the output is if it is purposefully introduced. - don > Another possible solution recently popped up. Someone at work showed me > canned air - that is rechargable. The can comes with a "charging bay" which > is a little tiny stand with a tiny compressor in it. You push the expired > canister down on it and the compressor clicks on and recharges the can of > air. This seems like a really great idea to me... but I haven't actually > used one - just seen it, so I don't know if these have their own > shortcomings. If not, I'd like to go buy one of these. > > Jay West > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Jan 21 18:46:00 2003 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4F4E7818-2DA3-11D7-8738-000502512D39@calico.litterbox.com> What about an airbrush compressor? I've seen them at hobby shops for about $150, which, if you're doing a lot of tinkering in old, dust filled computers, might be a good investment against cans of air. I've also seen cans that were literally a can of air that came with a small bicycle style pump to pump them up again. They don't work so well. -Jim On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 05:02 PM, Don Maslin wrote: > > > On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Jay West wrote: > >> I have always used canned air, for lack of anything better on hand. >> But they >> expire way too quickly, so I have a group of about 8 cans sitting on >> my >> workbench, which takes up WAY too much real estate. >> >> I have been thinking about finding a compressor, but not sure how to >> know if >> it will have oil in the air. > > Get a diaphram (vice piston) compressor. The only way it can have oil > in the output is if it is purposefully introduced. > > - don > >> Another possible solution recently popped up. Someone at work showed >> me >> canned air - that is rechargable. The can comes with a "charging bay" >> which >> is a little tiny stand with a tiny compressor in it. You push the >> expired >> canister down on it and the compressor clicks on and recharges the >> can of >> air. This seems like a really great idea to me... but I haven't >> actually >> used one - just seen it, so I don't know if these have their own >> shortcomings. If not, I'd like to go buy one of these. >> >> Jay West >> >> --- >> [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] >> >> > From tim.myers at sunplan.com Tue Jan 21 18:47:20 2003 From: tim.myers at sunplan.com (Tim Myers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: Ressurecting Mac Plus Message-ID: <001d01c2c1b0$cf15c330$5b76033e@local.sunplan.com> Hi all, I've got a Mac Plus I got of Ebay some time ago. Anyone any idea how I can (legally) obtain an OS for it? I'd like to add a HDD to it; I've an old 600Mb in an external box lying around, am I going to be able to use this (even if I only get a 20/40/80Mb partition on it I'm a happy chicken.). Tim. From pietstan at rogers.com Tue Jan 21 18:49:01 2003 From: pietstan at rogers.com (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: Digital AXPpci33 "noname" questions References: <20030121224501.57134.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E2DEAD7.40908@rogers.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: > I'm dusting off this old AXPpci33 motherboard of mine and ran into a few > issues... I'm attempting to upgrade the firmware and I have the file > from the Digital/Compaq/HP web site (Dec 2002 version), but the > instructions don't match my situation. I don't have the ability to > cobble up a boot floppy with OpenVMS (my DEC 4000 has no RX33 or > equivalent), I don't seem to have a compatible network card to BOOTP > it in, and the FAT floppy technique doesn't work with the firmware > I have in there now. > > So... does anyone know where I can find a reference to which network > cards are supported for network boot? I have all the common cards > like NE2000s, 3C509s, 8013s, etc., and a few PCI cards. I even have > a card in there now with a DEC 21143-PA chip, but the ROMs don't seem > to like it. Alternatively, in a similar vein to what someone else > recently requested for their Multia, can someone on the list make a > raw disk image I can "dd" onto a blank floppy? The Unix technique > on the HP webpage requires a Digital Unix binary program to convert > the firmare utility file to some other format and I can't do it from > Linux or Solaris. > > Thanks, > > -ethan > > P.S. - I also can't find any reference to the supported memory > configurations of the AXPpci33 board - I have some parity 16MB > SIMMs, giving me 64MB, but I'd like to use some of these parity > 64MB SIMMs I have here from AIR motherboards (formerly CompuServe > "CompuHosts"). Got a set of 4 ready to go, but it seems that few > boards ever supported 64MB 72-pin memory. :-( > > I'm using 4 * 32MB simms in my machine, and I seem to recall that the user's guide referred to a maximum supported memory (under DEC Unix) of 512MB. Of course, the maximum supported for that other, not thoroughly debugged, OS was only! 256MB... (bash mode off ;-}) ) If I find the manual , I'll look it up... I also have a pdf somewhere... From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jan 21 18:59:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? In-Reply-To: <00be01c2c15b$06cf2a60$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, J.C.Wren wrote: > The SCUBA tank is actually the most viable if you need portable air, too. > You can buy a backpack harness for next to nothing, which makes a convienent > carrying handle. SCUBA is accepted for transport everywhere, including > through tunnels (unless it's changed, welding gasses are not. Or maybe it's > just the flammable or oxidizers, dunno). And in most towns, it's easier to > find a dive shop than it is a welding supply store. And the dive shop > people are often friendlier. Never been to West Texas, have ya? :^) Doc From tim.myers at sunplan.com Tue Jan 21 19:02:00 2003 From: tim.myers at sunplan.com (Tim Myers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: Followup to Adrian's caption competition Message-ID: <002201c2c1b2$ffe878c0$5b76033e@local.sunplan.com> I didn't see this come across the list, so here goes. Apologies if it's already been covered. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2301705304 Tim From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jan 21 19:05:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: Ressurecting Mac Plus In-Reply-To: <001d01c2c1b0$cf15c330$5b76033e@local.sunplan.com> from "Tim Myers" at Jan 22, 2003 12:54:23 AM Message-ID: <200301220108.h0M18VE01983@shell1.aracnet.com> > I've got a Mac Plus I got of Ebay some time ago. Anyone any idea how I > can (legally) obtain an OS for it? I'd like to add a HDD to it; I've an > old 600Mb in an external box lying around, am I going to be able to use > this (even if I only get a 20/40/80Mb partition on it I'm a happy > chicken.). Check out some of the Mac sites for pointers on where to get an OS. Apple should have a copy you can run available for download. At least they used to have OS's for the Apple ][gs, and older Mac's (System 6 & 7) available for download. I've not messed with any older Mac's in quite a while, so I'm not sure what's still available, or where they've hidden it these days on their site. I'd not recommend anything newer than System 7.1 for a Plus though. Zane From cb at mythtech.net Tue Jan 21 19:11:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: Ressurecting Mac Plus Message-ID: >I've got a Mac Plus I got of Ebay some time ago. Anyone any idea how I >can (legally) obtain an OS for it? I'd like to add a HDD to it; I've an >old 600Mb in an external box lying around, am I going to be able to use >this (even if I only get a 20/40/80Mb partition on it I'm a happy >chicken.). Apple has available for download both System 6.0.8 and System 7.5.5. System 6.0.8 is what I would personally recommed for that system, but it will run up to the 7.5.5 (to do 7.5.5 make sure you have installed the full 4 MB of RAM). Now, getting it TO the Mac Plus, that can be a bit more of a challenge. The Mac Plus has a single 800K drive. So you will need to download the disk images from Apple's web site, and then make 800K disks from them. I don't off hand recall if the 6.0.8 images are 800K or 1.44K images, but I know the System 7.5 images are 1.44K. -chris From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 21 19:12:05 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: 11/34 PSU (Was: RK07 repairable?) In-Reply-To: <941162641.20030121051758@subatomix.com> from "Jeffrey Sharp" at Jan 21, 3 05:17:58 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1080 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030121/8f7c850d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 21 19:14:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: Fluke POD question In-Reply-To: <20030121223507.31243.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jan 21, 3 02:35:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 342 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030121/8389ebbe/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 21 19:14:55 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: amstrad pcw available In-Reply-To: <3E2DD40C.6070708@gifford.co.uk> from "John Honniball" at Jan 21, 3 11:13:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 501 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030121/fc7d4ccd/attachment.ksh From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jan 21 19:15:50 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: Digital AXPpci33 "noname" questions In-Reply-To: <20030121224501.57134.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > So... does anyone know where I can find a reference to which network > cards are supported for network boot? I have all the common cards > like NE2000s, 3C509s, 8013s, etc., and a few PCI cards. I even have > a card in there now with a DEC 21143-PA chip, but the ROMs don't seem > to like it. Alternatively, in a similar vein to what someone else > recently requested for their Multia, can someone on the list make a > raw disk image I can "dd" onto a blank floppy? The Unix technique > on the HP webpage requires a Digital Unix binary program to convert > the firmare utility file to some other format and I can't do it from > Linux or Solaris. I have a PCI 10mbit card I'll loan you... it's a 21042, IIRC, but it came out of an Aspen Alpine, and oughta netboot on any DEC board. Or, fact is, installing Tru64 on the PWS is one of the "if I ever get home" priority projects. If nobody makes you a dd image in two weeks, remind me. Doc From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Jan 21 19:23:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: Ressurecting Mac Plus References: <001d01c2c1b0$cf15c330$5b76033e@local.sunplan.com> Message-ID: <027a01c2c1b5$4b477210$2909dd40@oemcomputer> One of the thrift's here has OS 7 in the box for $4, if you want it let me know and I can pick it for you and the ship it to you? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Myers" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 6:54 PM Subject: Ressurecting Mac Plus > Hi all, > > I've got a Mac Plus I got of Ebay some time ago. Anyone any idea how I > can (legally) obtain an OS for it? I'd like to add a HDD to it; I've an > old 600Mb in an external box lying around, am I going to be able to use > this (even if I only get a 20/40/80Mb partition on it I'm a happy > chicken.). > > > Tim. > > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jan 21 19:35:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? In-Reply-To: Chad Fernandez "Re: What's better than canned air?" (Jan 21, 13:27) References: <00be01c2c15b$06cf2a60$020010ac@k4jcw> <002501c2c160$fb1e8de0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3E2D90FE.2010201@internet1.net> Message-ID: <10301212123.ZM549@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 21, 13:27, Chad Fernandez wrote: > John Lawson wrote: > > use a good regulator on your compressor, turned down to 15 or 20 PSI, and > > use a blow gun attachment with side relief holes and a rubber tip. > > Why so low? If I'm using a compressor, I usually set it to 80psi. No > problems yet! I'm not exactly cleaning core memory though. On some boards, you might just damage something. That's certainly too high for relay coils and such. You stand a good chance of ripping off labels, too. More importantly, if it does rip something off, or frees some grit, the debris will come flying off at high speed, which is rather dangerous. Of course, it all depends on how far he nozzle is from the board. However, if you're holding it some distance away to reduce the pressure, you'd save air and electricity by lowering the pressure instead. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Jan 21 20:35:01 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? In-Reply-To: <00c601c2c17b$d63aef80$020010ac@k4jcw> References: <00c601c2c17b$d63aef80$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, J.C.Wren wrote: > Side relief holes actually increase the volume of air, via a venturi > effect. You do get reduced air speed, but more volume. They're also a > safety feature of some kind, but damned if I've figure out how. High enough pressure (>40 psi) air through a small enough diameter nozzle can easily cut into soft flesh, and can rip ugly gashes in you under the right circumstances. Hence, the side holes prevent the full static pressure of the system from appearing at the tip, while, as you have said, entraing more air, providing the same volume at lower presures. And, while I respect and admire Chris for the Wild and Crazy guy he is, I try to use the lowest press prossible when de-grunging something: higher pressures and flows can do damage to Delicate Things, and at high pressures the Grunge goes flying everywhere and precipitates down, like Chernobyl Snow all over everything in the Shop. Cheerz John From univac2 at earthlink.net Tue Jan 21 20:38:01 2003 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: Ressurecting Mac Plus In-Reply-To: <001d01c2c1b0$cf15c330$5b76033e@local.sunplan.com> Message-ID: Making an 800K boot disk is easy if you have something like a Mac II or Quadra lying around. Just use Disk Copy to make a floppy from the image. I got it to work on a Power Macintosh 6100, but some people have had problems making 800K disks with Power Macs. I have images for System 0.97/Finder 1.0 through about System 6.0.1/Finder 6.1. But you'll need System 3.0/Finder 5.0 or higher for SCSI support, I think. But System 3 didn't become stable until System 3.2/Finder 5.3. I would recommend System 6.0.8, the last release of System 6. Although I've used 7.0 on a Plus without any problems, but you need 2 megs of RAM for System 7. Do you have a system you could use to make a floppy with? -- Owen Robertson on 1/21/03 6:54 PM, Tim Myers at tim.myers@sunplan.com wrote: > Hi all, > > I've got a Mac Plus I got of Ebay some time ago. Anyone any idea how I > can (legally) obtain an OS for it? I'd like to add a HDD to it; I've an > old 600Mb in an external box lying around, am I going to be able to use > this (even if I only get a 20/40/80Mb partition on it I'm a happy > chicken.). > > > Tim. From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Jan 21 21:11:00 2003 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? In-Reply-To: References: <00c601c2c17b$d63aef80$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <20030122031433.JUPE23740.tomts25-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Hi, Years beliefly had air cans. They made me feeling ill so I refused to use them afterwards. At former computer shop, they had pair of small vaccum cleaners (looks like oversized liquid laundry containers) that you can lug by it's handle but they were designed to vaccum or exhaust via hose. For it's size they were powerful enough to move heavy built up dust out. I think it was blue or green, made by Panasonic, it was long ago around 90-92 timeframe. At current TV shop work, we have heavy-duty air compressor and 1/2hp vacuum w/ flex 4" dia hose. Other tech used air to blow dust all over, I used both tools to blow off dust and trap dust with vac to cut down on dust floating around. Worked well. One thing, compressor is LOUD. Hissssss, clunk clunk chugg chug chug goes on for few minutes then with a clank, stop pumping up. That 1/2hp vac, is rather noisy too. More like roar actually. Both TVs & monitors attacts BIG heaps of dust by static action that is part of HV process. Cheers, Wizard From loedman1 at juno.com Tue Jan 21 21:29:00 2003 From: loedman1 at juno.com (loedman1@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: Help for Obedient Husbands (was: Free stuff) Message-ID: <20030121.192938.-130809.2.loedman1@juno.com> My collection of computers and related parts currently fills two bedrooms of a three bedroom house and is now extending into the front room. My Wife has earned the capital W by doing nothing more than sighing softly as I enter the house with my latest treasures. The only time she ever complained was when I was porting a set of Olds 455 heads in the front room (Hey it was cold outside ) Rich >> The following hard drives were delivered to me yesterday, much to my >> Wife's dismay, and are looking for homes. All are supposed to function From: "R. D. Davis" >Oooohhh! ...does she makes you capitalize the 'W' in wife? ...poor >chap. :-( Perhaps you need to find her a new home instead, and keep >the hard drives, as you never know when you may need them. Or, you >could keep her as well as the drives, but you may need the help of an >assertiveness training course for that option... I think that an >organization called OHA (Obedient Husbands Anonymous) may be able to >help you. ;-) Best of luck! >> Also received a bunch of miscellaneous chips and cards that I need to >> sort and identify that will be available >See above. You may be able to keep those as well... From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jan 21 21:31:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: Apple Powerbook 100 offered Message-ID: See below. Contact original sender. From the Yahoo! trailer and the fact that I have been receiving traffic from there, he's probably from South America. Reply-to: j_arenas@yahoo.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 23:26:26 -0300 (ART) From: JOSE ARENAS To: vcf@vintage.org Subject: sell old apple laptop i want to sell my old laptop characteristics: apple macintosh powerbook 100 made in usa with floppy disk unit and power unit all funtions ok with printer contact: j_arenas@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Y! Messenger en tu celular: prob? el nuevo Yahoo! Messenger para SMS aqu? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From martinm at allwest.net Tue Jan 21 21:39:00 2003 From: martinm at allwest.net (Martin Marshall) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? References: Message-ID: <3E2E1309.8010108@allwest.net> Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: > >>>Other options: >>>- Shop-Vac in reverse operation, fitted with custom cable? >> >>Beware static!!! > > > LOW pressure, high volume ShopVac makes a Micro Cleaning Kit that fits a 1.25" hose. It consists of small brush attachments and an adapter to the 1.25" hose. The brushes can vacuum debris, but when the ShopVac is in reverse operation, the adapter reduces the hose outlet to about 3/8" - this produces the velocity needed to clean boards, fans, etc. See: http://www.shopvac.com/dev/catalog/detail.asp?id=221 Still distributes a layer of dust on all things horizontal. Martin From jss at subatomix.com Tue Jan 21 21:56:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <17218046469.20030121215924@subatomix.com> On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, chris wrote: > And the other major downside to all this... that dust has to go > somewhere... so my work bench now has to get regular scrubbing If I can carry it out the door, I usually airblast stuff outside, downwind from my house. -- Jeffrey Sharp From fauradon at frontiernet.net Tue Jan 21 22:06:00 2003 From: fauradon at frontiernet.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: For trade Message-ID: <000901c2c1dc$95d62340$0264640a@auradon.com> Hi gang, I need to make room (don't we all) I have a 5110, 5103, 5114 trio with documentation. The 5110 is believed to be non-working, I get garbage on the display when turned on. The display changes when switches a toggled but I was unable to get it to behave like a normal computer. I have a troubbleshooting guide that when followed says replace video card (Got a spare?). I have a bunch of documentation for it and a few floppies. I think it is a 32K basic system (no tape). I would love to replace it with * W0W RaRe*(TM) flavors of pocket computers or programmable calculator (c programmable like the casio 2000 currently on ebay with the 3 1/2 disk interface would be very sweet, HP 16c would be nice too). Or other cool small items I'm also into console collecting( 3do, CDI, CDx, Lynx, jaguar) ... I am pretty open to any suggestions or offers. Of course you would have to pick up shipping from Minnesota (hefty given the size of the disk drive and the printer) I will gladly forward pictures to any interested party. Thank you Francois PS: I will not separate the items. ---------------------------- Because you know how to operate a vehicle doesn't necessarily mean that you know how to drive.... From jimkeo at multi-platforms.com Tue Jan 21 22:43:52 2003 From: jimkeo at multi-platforms.com (Jim Keohane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: Wanted: handheld quote/ticker device or micro FM/satellite peripheral - early 80's and before References: <20030121205625.24511.qmail@web12304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001601c2c1d1$3562fac0$0200000a@ibm0187702152> Looking for handheld quote device, ticker display or any peripheral for IBM PC, Apple ][, etc. to pick up ticker broadcast via FM Broadcast or geosynchronous satellite broadcast. Does not necessarilly have to be functioning. User manual would be great. Also interested in micro or other computer software and docs for real-time ticker monitoring. Prefer something prior to 1984. Some items of interested would be: DATA QUOTE software, Satellite Info Systems peripheral, Radio Data Retriever, Intra-Day Analyst software, Radio Exchange, Pocket Quote (Telemet or Dow Jones), DowAlert, Instinet, MERLIN, etc. Respond privately to jimkeo@multi-platforms.com with SUBJECT: QUOTE or TICKER Thanks! - Jim Jim Keohane, Multi-Platforms, Inc. "It's not whether you win or lose. It's whether you win!" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030121/0aafb4a8/attachment.html From marvin at rain.org Tue Jan 21 23:14:01 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: Wanted: handheld quote/ticker device or micro FM/satellite peripheral - early 80's and before References: <20030121205625.24511.qmail@web12304.mail.yahoo.com> <001601c2c1d1$3562fac0$0200000a@ibm0187702152> Message-ID: <3E2E294B.37D1087F@rain.org> A device (FM receiver?) was put out by Lotus Corp. called Signal, and was used for realtime tracking of the stock market. It interfaced to the PC, and was apparently based on some type of subscription. I'm not sure when it was introduced, but IIRC about 1986 or so. Another interesting device I picked up is a keyboard unit that has "Reuters" printed on it. The circuit board is (c)1981 and a couple of the chips I looked at had a code date in 1981. It has an RF input F connector, a BNC video out, a couple of db9 (de9?) connectors for a remote keyboard and I/O ports. > Jim Keohane wrote: > > Looking for handheld quote device, ticker display or any peripheral > for IBM PC, Apple ][, etc. to pick up ticker broadcast via FM > Broadcast or geosynchronous satellite broadcast. Does not necessarilly > have to be functioning. User manual would be great. > > Also interested in micro or other computer software and docs for > real-time ticker monitoring. > > Prefer something prior to 1984. > > Some items of interested would be: DATA QUOTE software, Satellite > Info Systems peripheral, Radio Data Retriever, Intra-Day Analyst > software, Radio Exchange, Pocket Quote (Telemet or Dow Jones), > DowAlert, Instinet, MERLIN, etc. > > Respond privately to jimkeo@multi-platforms.com with SUBJECT: QUOTE > or TICKER > > Thanks! - Jim > > Jim Keohane, Multi-Platforms, Inc. > > "It's not whether you win or lose. It's whether you win!" From n8uhn at yahoo.com Tue Jan 21 23:48:42 2003 From: n8uhn at yahoo.com (Bill Allen Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: IBM SYS/36 SOFTWARE NEEDED Message-ID: <20030122053901.79913.qmail@web40702.mail.yahoo.com> Hi All, I'm looking for some software for the ibm 5360 ibm sys/36. needed is the basic compiler (sys/36 basic) and a set of diagnostic disks. i do have eia comms and the optional trailer/disk c (three hd's) on the system. copies are ok for both as long as the diag copies are copied onto diag formated diskettes (the diag format is different then the normal format, but can be done on any system 36). r2r tape is fine also - i have the r2r tape drive on my sys/36. ALSO, if anyone needs sys/36 r2r tapes copied onto diskette, i can do that. Bill (n8uhn at yahoo dot com) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From schoedel at kw.igs.net Wed Jan 22 00:02:48 2003 From: schoedel at kw.igs.net (Kevin Schoedel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: Looking for... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> ..info/manuals on the following Apple ][ compatable boards: >> >> SEC Echo][ Speech Synth > >I just picked up a platinum Apple IIe with an Echo ][ card in it Saturday! I >also got the Echo speaker. If anyone has any information about it (ie, how >to PROGRAM for it), I'd really like to hear it. Glad you mentioned that it >is a speech synthesizer, since I didn't even know that. I have one of these, manual, floppy, box and all. The manual is a thin little thing with no useful information in it, and I don't currently have a system set up that can read the floppy. If a better source doesn't turn up soon, one of you write me in a few days and we'll arrange something. -- Kevin Schoedel Intel: "The actual user of the PC -- someone who can do anything they want -- is the enemy." (David Aucsmith, Intel security architect, 1999/02/25) Apple: "Rip. Mix. Burn." (advertising campaign, 2001) From lemay at cs.umn.edu Wed Jan 22 00:05:42 2003 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (lemay@cs.umn.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: Heathkit H-11A (LSI-11) on eBay In-Reply-To: <20030121223213.29278.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200301220557.XAA01591@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > Does anyone on the list have any PDP-11 papertape? I don't mind > image files of the data - I have punches and blank tape. > > -ethan No, but if anyone is feeling particularily insane or rich, I'll sell a Heathkit H10 paper tape system for $1000 ;) I dont have anything I can use it with. -Lawrence LeMay From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Jan 22 00:06:39 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: PET 2001 Oddity - 6550 unobtainium! In-Reply-To: <099F935BC4E3B941984DED87DE9B482F0844EA@EPS-exchange.eps.sec.int.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Kevin Andres > Sent: 20 January 2003 15:10 > To: 'cctech@classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: PET 2001 Oddity - 6550 unobtainium! > > > To all, (for fear of missing someone!) > I have a PET with the feared 6550 Unobtainiums. It doesn't > even get to a > prompt, but I suspect the screen full > of characters with some blinking and some that change upon an [ENTER] key > is telling me a video RAM went south. As When my 2001 did that I got some 2114s from bgmicro.com to swap out the video RAM and it works sweetly now. -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Jan 22 00:07:36 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:54 2005 Subject: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... In-Reply-To: <20030120111444.S57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Jochen Kunz > Sent: 20 January 2003 10:15 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... > > > On 2003.01.19 12:30 Witchy wrote: > > > The thing that's puzzling me is the fact they've shoehorned an RX33 > > in there - I thought the 3100-10 was the only machine to have floppy > > capability...... > I have a 2.88 MB SCSI floppy in my MV3100m95. Live and learn eh :) I didn't know that was possible. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 22 00:08:34 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:55 2005 Subject: PET 2001 Oddity - 6550 unobtainium! In-Reply-To: <099F935BC4E3B941984DED87DE9B482F0844EA@EPS-exchange.eps.sec.int.net> Message-ID: <20030120201011.4361.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Kevin Andres wrote: > To all, (for fear of missing someone!) > I have a PET with the feared 6550 Unobtainiums. To my experience, those are the more common "static" PETs, but from reading the list, perhaps there were more made with 2114s. > It doesn't even get to a prompt, but I suspect the screen full > of characters with some blinking and some that change upon an > [ENTER] key is telling me a video RAM went south. Perhaps. Could also be zero page. > ...I have toyed with swapping a CD6264 and or multiples into the mother > board even going so far as to quick doing an internet circuit board to > accomodate them. Time is the major constraint here. I also remember an > article or text which referenced adding perhaps a dynamic memory pack > from another machine to the expander plug, with an appropriate R & C > stobe assembly supplying what the PET didn't have. Whoa, memories!!!! Not sure what you are referring to, but I know of a modern board that plugs into the CPU socket that provides 100% of the ROM and program RAM, but I am fairly certain that it does _not_ provide for RAM at $8000. Now... given how the circuit works, it might not be too hard to remove the two video SRAMs (which should be side-by-side, not next to the program RAM at the front edge of the board), replace them with machined pin sockets (or four strips cut from .6" wide sockets if you can't locate "real" 6550 sockets), then you could either swap them out with ones from the front row to verify that it _is_ a video SRAM, or just get some perfboard from Radio Shack (or wherever you get parts these days) and hand-wire a daughter card with just about any 8-bit-wide SRAM from a 2016 or 6116 on up to a 6264 or 62256 or whatever. You could theoretically wire up a socket adapter to use a 2114 in place of a 6550, but given the reliability of the 2114s, I'd seriously consider a more modern alternative. I'm fairly certain the select lines for $8000 are not available on the edge connector, so no matter how you do it, you'll have to tap some lines from the motherboard. You _could_ build an edge-card board with the SRAM on it, remove the internal ones, and run the select lines as jumpers to your card, if you are more comfortable building something for the edge card. Don't know what to recommend for the "least time" solution, though. Check the front row SRAMs first, to see if you have a zero page problem. It's also possible that one of the TTL chips in the address selector logic is faulty and you aren't writing to the video page at all. If one SRAM were out, the machine would function, but look very odd. Sounds like either both SRAMs are faulty or you have a problem elsewhere either in the video chain or for the CPU itself. I have this Fluke 9010A tester that would help establish which one... it plugs into the CPU socket (I have a 6502 pod and a 68000 pod) and either runs as if it were just the CPU in there, or you can break it out of "emulation" mode and generate bus cycles... you can watch it test video memory and use it to strobe lines to see if it's a selector or mux/demux chip. A logic analyzer can also be helpful. I presume you have basic tools but may not have more advanced tools, yes? -ethan > I have looked at the serial number several times and always neglect to > write it down. I early on, 1975 or there > abouts, added a reset button to the front panel because of my tendency to > > lock the silly thing up with my incessant > poking around. I know I also have several of the early tomes on the PET > in > the basement, along with a couple of > Kilobaud articles reference the machine. > > Kev > kandres@epssecurity.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-request@classiccmp.org [SMTP:cctech-request@classiccmp.org] > Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 2:56 AM > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #320 - 48 msgs > > Send cctech mailing list submissions to > cctech@classiccmp.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > cctech-request@classiccmp.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > cctech-admin@classiccmp.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of cctech digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Got the second batch of -11 equipment (Bill Bradford) > 2. Re: Got the second batch of -11 equipment (Dave McGuire) > 3. Re: Update: BBC Acorn (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) > 4. Re: PET 2001 oddity (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) > 5. RE: MV3100 M90 / VAX 4100 (was: VXT X terminal question) (Antonio > Carlini) > 6. PET 2001 oddity - solved! (Adrian Vickers) > 7. RE: Musings on BabyVAX video (Antonio Carlini) > 8. RE: Hobbled NVAX (was: VXT X terminal question) (Antonio Carlini) > 9. Re: PET 2001 oddity (Adrian Vickers) > 10. Re: PET 2001 oddity (Adrian Vickers) > 11. Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? (Kenneth Donchatz) > 12. Re: Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? (Cameron Kaiser) > 13. Re: PET 2001 oddity - solved! (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) > 14. Re: PET 2001 oddity (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) > 15. Re: PET 2001 oddity (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) > 16. RE: Musings on BabyVAX video (Fred deBros) > 17. Re: Update: BBC Acorn (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) > 18. RE: Musings on BabyVAX video (Doc Shipley) > 19. Re: VXT X terminal question (Jochen Kunz) > 20. Re: VXT X terminal question (Jochen Kunz) > 21. BBC Micro - assemblers - info needed (Philip Pemberton) > 22. RE: Musings on BabyVAX video (Peter C. Wallace) > 23. Re: IBM 5322 (Sellam Ismail) > 24. SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? (David > > Holland) > 25. PET 2001 oddity (M H Stein) > 26. T&B Ansley IDC connectors (M H Stein) > 27. PerSci Model 277 Dual 8" Floppy Drives - Info Needed (M H Stein) > 28. Re: About Electronics Questions (Tony Duell) > 29. RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... (Zane H. Healy) > 30. Re: Dear Santa, I would like a Yamaha CX5M ... (Sellam Ismail) > 31. Re: Apple 1 schematics (Tothwolf) > 32. Re: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips (David Gesswein) > 33. Re: DOS 1.0 (Tothwolf) > 34. RE: Hobbled NVAX (Michael Sokolov) > 35. New classic (Gareth Knight) > 36. RE: VXT X terminal question (Michael Sokolov) > 37. MCA Fast Ethernet Cards (vance@neurotica.com) > 38. Re: SGI Discussions? (Brian Chase) > 39. RE: VXT X terminal question (Antonio Carlini) > 40. RE: Musings on BabyVAX video (r. 'bear' stricklin) > 41. Re: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? > (r. > 'bear' stricklin) > 42. RE: VXT X terminal question (Fred N. van Kempen) > 43. Apple 1 schematics (chris) > 44. RE: VXT X terminal question (Fred N. van Kempen) > 45. RE: VXT X terminal question (Michael Sokolov) > 46. Re: Apple 1 schematics (Eric Smith) > 47. Re: Got the second batch of -11 equipment (John Honniball) > 48. Re: Apple 1 schematics (John Honniball) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:11:17 -0600 > From: Bill Bradford > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Got the second batch of -11 equipment > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Unfortunately, the actual "machine" (the guy didnt know that the MINC-11 > was > a system as well) is just an 11/23 with some RL01s. > > Pictures: > > http://www.pdp11.org/minc/01-18-03/ > > I have no idea if the RL01 disk packs are any good, but I've got one > DEC-labled RT-11 v4.0, and one hand-labeled RT-11 v4.0C "patched to > level F". The top RL01 is missing the hinged cover. > > Anybody want two RL02s (by the way, how the hell do I get the top covers > open? The "switch" on the top wont budge), and two RL01s? Pickup in > Austin, Texas.. > > Not a bad haul for a total of $30, even if I do just keep the 11/23 and > the MINC-11 and the racks. > > Bill > > -- > bill bradford > mrbill@mrbill.net > austin, texas > > --__--__-- > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:58:47 -0500 > Subject: Re: Got the second batch of -11 equipment > From: Dave McGuire > To: mrbill@mrbill.net, cctech@classiccmp.org > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Saturday, January 18, 2003, at 04:11 PM, Bill Bradford wrote: > > Anybody want two RL02s (by the way, how the hell do I get the top > > covers > > open? The "switch" on the top wont budge), and two RL01s? Pickup in > > Austin, Texas.. > > The top door latch on an RL drive is locked by a solenoid. Apply > power to the drive, make sure the "load" button is out, wait for a > "click" (the load light will come on) then you should be able to > squeeze that little slide handle and open the top cover. > > I would really like to have the RL02s but I have no idea how I'd get > them from you. :-( > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." > St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:23:31 +0000 (GMT) > From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?= > Subject: Re: Update: BBC Acorn > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > >> just checked mine again and it's 25-ANC13-1000049 > >> > >Mine is 25-ANC13-1000034, and Rob O'Donnell said his is > 25-ANC13-1000038. > > well if Rob's was the last then they obviously didn't do a very good job > of > numbering things :-) Unless Rob's was the last one released by Acorn, > but > they > all sat in storage for a while... > > > Do either of you think you have a Disc 1 for it? > > no discs at all I'm afraid :-( hence why I was asking about whther > there's > a > sensible ftp site to put them on so if a working set can be collected at > least > they can be archived somewhere (the same goes for manuals really, but > scanning > those would be a major pain I expect!) > > that used to be the problem - the hardware used to get thrown out but > discs > would lie around on shelves until someone did a bit of spring cleaning > now > and > then; they would have been trashed seperately and maybe straight into a > bin > in > the office :-( > > cheers > > Jules > (who has too many systems that don't work for lack of necessary discs :-) > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > > --__--__-- > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 11:37:37 GMT > From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Jan 17, 18:18, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > > > Unfortunately, the PET seems to have developed an odd fault: It won't > take > > a BASIC program, and some keywords seem to be knackered... > > > So.... I figure the BASIC ROM has become slightly corrupted, OR I've > got > a > > flakey memory chip which reads OK but doesn't write properly. The > question > > is, how to find out? > > Swap some of the RAM chips around and see if it makes a difference. If > it > does, particularly if it fixes it, swap them back -- it might just be a > bad > socket contact. Be careful with the RAM chips: if you have the type of > PET > I think you do, they're MOS Technology 6550, aka unobtainium, and unlike > any other RAM chip. > > > 1) Can the BASIC ROM be swapped with one from, say, a 3032 or 4016? In > > fact, which one IS the BASIC ROM? > > No. BASIC (and also the rest of the code, whether you call it a kernel > or > a monitor, or "stuff") is spread over several chips. And in the early > PETs, the ROMs too are MOS Technology specials, and the different > versions > of PETs had different ROMs. In fact, there was an upgrade for the > originals, because they didn't handle the IEEE routines properly, which > made it impossible to use disks properly (amongst other things). > > > 2) If it's a dodgy memory chip, what's the best way of isolating it? I > have > > an oscilloscope, but nada skill in this sort of thing. > > 3) If, as my money is on, it's the BASIC ROM, can it be replaced with > an > > EPROM - if so, there's a whole gamut of additional questions to > follow.... > > If it's a later unit with 24-pin 2332 mask ROMs, then a TMS2532 EPROM can > be used (not a 2732, nor other 2532s that don't have the TMS prefix). If > it's got 28-pin MOS Technology MPS6540 ROMs, you'd need a carrier to > shuffle some signals, at the very least, and possibly some logic to > handle > the multiple select lines. The good news, though, is that I have a > chicklet-keyboard 2001-N as well, and if necessary, I could probably do a > ROM dump for you (though IIRC it used to be on the 'net somewhere). I > wouldn't need to move more than a few hundreweight of stuff to get at it > ;-) > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > > --__--__-- > > Message: 5 > From: "Antonio Carlini" > To: > Subject: RE: MV3100 M90 / VAX 4100 (was: VXT X terminal question) > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 11:48:41 -0000 > Organization: me@home > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > Wow! I thought the CQBIC was not populated on the KA50. > > I'm fairly sure the mainboards are identical (i.e. the same part > number). > I've never been inside a VAX 4000-100 so I've never had the > chance to personally check this, but the last time I saw a > parts list, the part numbers were the same. > > > Hmm. I do not suppose that this identity flag can be > > permanently stored anywhere other than in the firmware flash > > ROM. I'm sure DEC wouldn't want people to suddenly discover > > that their machine shape-shifts when the NVRAM battery is > > disconnected. So does this console test actually erase and > > reprogram a sector in the firmware flash ROM, or is the > > change only in effect until the next power cycle? > > It's stored in the flash EPROM - it rewrites it as > part of the test (and warns you not to switch off > while it is doing so). The change is permanent (until > you run the test again and switch back). > > I doubt HP care whether customers know this or not now. I > doubt they cared even back then: switching from a UV3100-90 > to a VAX 4000-100 didn't get you anything extra (unless > you paid for a new case) and it did cost you more > in licence fees. Switching the other way disabled Qbus > and DSSI, so although your licence cost you less, you > got less for it. And if you wanted the cheaper licence > you would have bought the cheaper machine anyway! > > Antonio > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:28:22 +0000 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > From: Adrian Vickers > Subject: PET 2001 oddity - solved! > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > --=======74632786======= > Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-671DF1C; charset=us-ascii; > > format=flowed > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > Woohoo! > > Turned out to be dead simple; yet another blown 2114. > > I figured the chip @ $0400 (i.e. the start of BASIC) was faulty, seeing > as > how the machine wouldn't take a single line of BASIC. So, I swapped the > appropriate bank out to another bank - and presto! BASIC worked again. > > Having done this, I then swapped *one* of the two chips (according to the > schematic, there are two chips for each $0400 block of memory - why is > this?) back to its original spot, and presto again - no BASIC. Swapped > that > chip for the one remaining spare, and presto^3! BASIC again. > > So, now I need more 2114's as an insurance policy... > > Meanwhile, I thank the list *again* for their invaluable help (Ethan, > Mike > & Pete in particular in this case). What would I do without you (except > preside over a collection of steadily failing machines)? > > -- > Cheers, Ade. > Be where it's at, B-Racing! > http://b-racing.com > > --=======74632786=======-- > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 7 > From: "Antonio Carlini" > To: > Subject: RE: Musings on BabyVAX video > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:06:37 -0000 > Organization: me@home > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > I thought so too. But what about SPX? Can it go into a > > pre-M76 VS3100? And what about VS2K SPX? (It would of course > > be very silly in practice, but I'm talking in principle.) > > SPX will go into KA42s - although I don't know for sure whether > it was ever sold and supported. It will probably plug into a > VS2K but I have no idea whether it will work (or whether anything > would run on it without more code being written). > > > So I thought that KA42 had one big CDAL-to-EDAL bridge > > upfront and the rest of the system except memory was EDAL. > > But I could be wrong, maybe different subsystems have their > > own independent connections to CDAL. > > You are probably right - I just threw in "as necessary" because > I don't have a KA42 block diagram handy (in fact, I may not have > one at all - there is not much info floating around on these > and the early UVAX 3100 systems). > > > But if KA42 indeed has one big CDAL-to-EDAL bridge upfront, > > the million dollar question becomes: why did the VS4000 M90 > > dev team toil to design their own CDAL-to-EDAL bridge (CEAC) > > if there already was one? The only plausible explanation I > > could come up with is that perhaps on KA42 the CDAL-to-EDAL > > bridge was inseparably integrated with the memory controller. > > I don't know why they rolled their own. Given that they used > or modified existing designs where possible, I assume that there > were good reasons. Perhaps the existing design was too slow or > took up too much room (this latter consideration was definitely > very important for the -90). > > > BTW, I have never found any references to a technical manual > > for VS3100 (any > > model) or for the corresponding early MV3100 models. It looks > > like one never existed. Do you have any more info? > > No - and I could never find any even while I was inside > DEC. There must have been *some* such documentation > but it was nowhere I could find. > > > Does KA43 have memory on CDAL or on RDAL? I once had one in > > my hands and when I looked on the board to see what chips it > > There's not a lot of technical info on the KA43 either! > > > Yeah, maybe that was the change. (Was that a typo or was > > EDAQL a chip converting EDAL to SPX's internal bus?) > > Typo. > > > > >http://www.research.compaq.com/wrl/DECarchives/DTJ/DTJ402/DTJ402SC.TXT > > > >But it talks about the X aspects of it and says nothing about VXT2000 > hardware. > > Yes, I've read that one and it's not the one. I was sure that there was > an article describing the VXT2000 itself, but I guess since I cannot > find it either on the web or in my docs, I must have > imagined it. Oh well. > > Antonio > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 8 > From: "Antonio Carlini" > To: > Subject: RE: Hobbled NVAX (was: VXT X terminal question) > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:11:19 -0000 > Organization: me@home > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > I assume the NVAX microcode was patched via its PCS facility > > by the boot firmware, not by making a different NVAX die with > > different microcode I hope, right? If so the abomination is > > I assume so too. > > > to be reversed by reflashing the boot ROM with non-hobbled > > firmware (stolen from a friend with a non-hobbled machine). > > They had flash ROMs like all other NVAXen, right? > > I doubt that non-hobbled firmware exists. I doubt you > could just use the UV3100-96 firmware upgrade on a > UV3100-85 and have it work. In fact, I guess the firmware > is the same but it looks at the machine's hardware (e.g. > size and config of backup cache or something like that) > to determine what it is running on, and disables the VIC > if it thinks the machine is a UV3100-85. > > The easiest thing to do would be to try reenabling the VIC. > If that is not enough, you would have to find the bit of code > that disables the VIC and NOP it out. I doubt that the code > was protected too much: it would have been way beyond most > customers' ability to alter it. > > Antonio > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 9 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:49:24 +0000 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > From: Adrian Vickers > Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > --=======54493991======= > Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-671DF1C; charset=us-ascii; > > format=flowed > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > At 06:41 18/01/2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > >--- Adrian Vickers wrote: > > > I dug the 2001 out of the cupboard the other day... > > > >Can you give more information about *which* 2001 you have? There > >are at least two major motherboard revisions for the static-RAM PETs. > >They use different ROMs and RAMs. > > OK, I can but try.... > > According to the sticker on the back, this is a 2001-8BS. The motherboard > layout appears to be the same as the one pictured on www.zimmers.net on > the > 4k/8k layout. I've taken some photos of my motherboard, which can now be > found here: > > http://helmies.org.uk/images/cbm2001/mobo_front.jpg > http://helmies.org.uk/images/cbm2001/mobo_back.jpg > http://helmies.org.uk/images/cbm2001/mobo_side.jpg > > NOTE: Each picture is approx 449K = long download over a modem! > > >Also, as I have one, there are also models of 2001 that have _dynamic_ > >RAMs. My 2001-N has 32K worth of 4116 chips (from the factory) and a > >full-sized graphic keyboard. If it were for sale in Europe, it would > >most likely been labelled a 3032, for comparison, but here in the > States, > >it says "2001" on the front. > > > >I bring it up because I _think_ you are talking about the original > >chicklet-keyboard SRAM PET, but you didn't come right out and say so. > > Apologies, I didn't; I keep forgetting that the 2001 went through more > development than perhaps any of the other PETs. Yes, it is a chicklet > keyboard version, with static RAM (2114's) and original 28-pin MOS ROMs. > > > > > > Unfortunately, the PET seems to have developed an odd fault: It won't > > > take a BASIC program, and some keywords seem to be knackered... > >. > >. > >. > > > So.... I figure the BASIC ROM has become slightly corrupted, OR I've > got > > > a flakey memory chip... > > > > > > 1) Can the BASIC ROM be swapped with one from, say, a 3032 or 4016? > > > >Most likely not. If your 2001 has 2114 SRAMs, perhaps. There are > >upgrade ROMs (BASIC 2.0, anyway) _for_ the 2001 > > Personally, I'd rather keep this one as original as possible, i.e. keep > the > original (buggy) ROMs. However, if it means keeping it working, then I'm > prepared to substitute the MOS ROMs with a board/set of boards containing > more modern EPROMs wired appropriately containing the original images. > Not > that I've got a clue how to go about doing that, mind... > > > > > In fact, which one IS the BASIC ROM? > > > >BASIC lives in several ROMs, the Kernel lives in several ROMs. BASICs > >prior to 4.0 occupied $C000-$DFFF, and the Kernel occupied $E000-$FFFF, > >minus the PIAs and VIAs, etc., at $E800. BASIC 4.0 starts at $B000 > >to add room for diskette commands. > > > >In my PET, $9000, $A000 and $B000 are filled with user-supplied firmware > >(better machine-language monitor, BASIC extensions and a tape speeder). > >These sorts of things, plus ROMs for word processors and other > applications > >were somewhat typical amongst serious PET users. Dunno if yours has > >anything like that, but if you find ROMs where you expect none to be, > >that's probably why. > > Well, there are no unpolulated sockets, so perhaps it's a fair bet that > there's some extra stuff in there. Goodness knows what, though, all the > ROMs are MOS 6540's. > > > > 2) If it's a dodgy memory chip, what's the best way of isolating it? > I > > > have an oscilloscope, but nada skill in this sort of thing. > > > >The typical way of testing RAMs in a C= service center was to rotate > >a pair of them from bank to bank and see if the symptoms shift. It > >was especially handy for detecting zero page problems. > > Figures :( I've had to do this once already to locate a broken 2114 > (when > I got the machine, it claimed only 1600 bytes of memory were free). > Luckily, I have one more spare 2114 (I got two from someone on this list, > I > forget who [for which I apologise] and thank them (again) profusely, as > if > it is a broken 2114, there's a chance the second spare might be > essential). > > Anyway, if it *is* a failing RAM chip, my guess is it's the one which > sits > near the bottom of BASIC memory, since the first line number causes a > crash. Does anyone have a map showing the correlation between memory > addresses & specific chips? > > If it's on the schematics, I'll be looking there next (so no need to > answer > that question). > > > > > Ta for that, all good info! > > Thus, the order of the day is: > > 1) Try to determine which 2114 chip might have gone bad, either by > sequenced swapping or by trying to be clever with the schematics. > > 2) If that doesn't fix it, re-seat all ROMs. > > 3) If that doesn't fix it, go to plan C - which doesn't exist yet... > > Also, I know this has been asked & answered before, but what's the best > way > of cleaning the board? It has more dust on it than I am properly > comfortable with, and besides it looks horrible. > > I'm guessing that *ideally* it should be washed in distilled water with a > very soft brush, then left in a warm place to dry thoroughly. OTOH, maybe > alcohol would be a better idea? I have some disc head cleaning alcohol > which would suffice - recommendations please! > > > >Good luck, > > Thanks - I'm going to need that (in place of specific skills :) > > > >P.S. - if you don't know about http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/ it's a > >great site with schematics and firmware. > > I already knew of it, but had forgotten how useful it might be. Will > check > that out next. Ta! > > > -- > Cheers, Ade. > Be where it's at, B-Racing! > http://b-racing.com > > --=======54493991=======-- > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 10 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:55:43 +0000 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > From: Adrian Vickers > Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > --=======37E27F29======= > Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-671DF1C; charset=us-ascii; > > format=flowed > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > At 11:37 18/01/2003, you wrote: > > >On Jan 17, 18:18, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > > > > > Unfortunately, the PET seems to have developed an odd fault: It won't > >take > > > a BASIC program, and some keywords seem to be knackered... > > > > > So.... I figure the BASIC ROM has become slightly corrupted, OR I've > got > >a > > > flakey memory chip which reads OK but doesn't write properly. The > >question > > > is, how to find out? > > > >Swap some of the RAM chips around and see if it makes a difference. If > it > >does, particularly if it fixes it, swap them back -- it might just be a > bad > >socket contact. Be careful with the RAM chips: if you have the type of > PET > >I think you do, they're MOS Technology 6550, aka unobtainium, and unlike > >any other RAM chip. > > Hi Pete, > > It's not *quite* as bad as all that, it uses 2114's. Although they're not > made of unobtainum, they ARE made of "rareium" (or R@RE!ium on eBay - > probably the *WOW* *L@@K* isotope, knowing my luck :). > > > > 1) Can the BASIC ROM be swapped with one from, say, a 3032 or 4016? > In > > > fact, which one IS the BASIC ROM? > > > >No. BASIC (and also the rest of the code, whether you call it a kernel > or > >a monitor, or "stuff") is spread over several chips. > > Damn, I just *knew* it wouldn't be that easy. > > > And in the early > >PETs, the ROMs too are MOS Technology specials, and the different > versions > >of PETs had different ROMs. > > AFAICT, these are version 1 ROMs. Every socket is filled, and they're all > MOS6540s. > > >If it's got 28-pin MOS Technology MPS6540 ROMs, you'd need a carrier to > >shuffle some signals, at the very least, and possibly some logic to > handle > >the multiple select lines. > > Harrumph. Guess which one it has... > > Still, I've no fear of making carriers, etc. - albeit time constraints & > lack of equipment will make it tough right now - at least until I can get > my MicroMAT going. > > >The good news, though, is that I have a > >chicklet-keyboard 2001-N as well, and if necessary, I could probably do > a > >ROM dump for you (though IIRC it used to be on the 'net somewhere). I > >wouldn't need to move more than a few hundreweight of stuff to get at it > >;-) > > That might be cool (and *snap* about the tons of stuff, although having > seen your little collection I think you do have rather more to shift > about > than me!). However, let me try out the RAM swapping & chip re-seating > first, and if that doesn't fix it, then we'll look into EPROMs & > suchlike. > > -- > Cheers, Ade. > Be where it's at, B-Racing! > http://b-racing.com > > --=======37E27F29=======-- > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 11 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 05:40:46 -0800 (PST) > From: Kenneth Donchatz > Subject: Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > --0-1341891654-1042897246=:19979 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > I have a 13 year old apple macintosh that works like a dream. It's > loaded > with programs, and this great little machine got me through law school > and > helped me launch my career. When my employer switched over to a compaq > system, I could no longer use this machine to work on projects at home > and > was forced to pick up an etower package instead. For the last 5 years, > it's sat in my basement waiting. Everything works perfectly, including > the > printer, and all of the parts are original. Any tips on where I might > take > this machine so that it can be used? It's a shame to let it sit here and > rot. > > Ken Donchatz > > kendonchatz@yahoo.com > > Columbus, Ohio > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now > --0-1341891654-1042897246=:19979 > Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii > >

I have a 13 year old apple macintosh that works like a dream.  > It's > loaded with programs, and this great little machine got me through law > school and helped me launch my career.  When my employer switched > over > to a compaq system, I could no longer use this machine to work on > projects > at home and was forced to pick up an etower package instead.  For > the > last 5 years, it's sat in my basement waiting.  Everything works > perfectly, including the printer, and all of the parts are > original.  > Any tips on where I might take this machine so that it can be used? It's > a > shame to let it sit here and rot.

>

Ken Donchatz

>

kendonchatz@yahoo.com

>

Columbus, Ohio


Do you Yahoo!?
> href="http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com">Yahoo! > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. href="http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com">Sign > up > now > --0-1341891654-1042897246=:19979-- > > --__--__-- > > Message: 12 > From: Cameron Kaiser > Subject: Re: Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 06:09:47 -0800 (PST) > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > I have a 13 year old apple macintosh that works like a dream. > > Which model? > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: > http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * > ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- Of course I run NetBSD. --------------------------------------------- > > ------- > > --__--__-- > > Message: 13 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:34:45 GMT > From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity - solved! > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Jan 18, 13:28, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > > Turned out to be dead simple; yet another blown 2114. > > > > I figured the chip @ $0400 (i.e. the start of BASIC) was faulty, seeing > as > > how the machine wouldn't take a single line of BASIC. So, I swapped the > > appropriate bank out to another bank - and presto! BASIC worked again. > > Good! > > > Having done this, I then swapped *one* of the two chips (according to > the > > schematic, there are two chips for each $0400 block of memory - why is > > this?) > > A 2114 is 1K x 4 bits wide, so they're used in pairs to make bytes. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > > --__--__-- > > Message: 14 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:11:59 GMT > From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Hi, Ade. > > On Jan 18, 12:55, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > > It's not *quite* as bad as all that, it uses 2114's. Although they're > not > > made of unobtainum, they ARE made of "rareium" (or R@RE!ium on eBay - > > probably the *WOW* *L@@K* isotope, knowing my luck :). > > Good! If it *is* a RAM fault, and you can't find one at a reasonable > price, let me know. I think I still have a small number spare. > > > AFAICT, these are version 1 ROMs. Every socket is filled, and they're > all > > MOS6540s. > > Drat. Let's hope it's not a ROM fault. Sadly, my copy of "The PET > Revealed" with its mostly-legible (!) circuit diagrams, shows the later > board with 2332s. But I do have a copy of the MPS6540 pinout somewhere. > > > Harrumph. Guess which one it has... > > > > Still, I've no fear of making carriers, etc. - albeit time constraints > & > > lack of equipment will make it tough right now - at least until I can > get > > my MicroMAT going. > > > > >The good news, though, is that I have a > > >chicklet-keyboard 2001-N as well, and if necessary, I could probably > do > a > > >ROM dump for you (though IIRC it used to be on the 'net somewhere). I > > >wouldn't need to move more than a few hundreweight of stuff to get at > it > > >;-) > > > > That might be cool (and *snap* about the tons of stuff, although having > > seen your little collection I think you do have rather more to shift > about > > than me!). However, let me try out the RAM swapping & chip re-seating > > first, and if that doesn't fix it, then we'll look into EPROMs & > suchlike. > > OK. Give me shout if you want me to start burrowing. Or come and pay a > visit... > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > > --__--__-- > > Message: 15 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:29:23 GMT > From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Jan 18, 12:49, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > At 06:41 18/01/2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > >I bring it up because I _think_ you are talking about the original > > >chicklet-keyboard SRAM PET, but you didn't come right out and say so. > > > > Apologies, I didn't; I keep forgetting that the 2001 went through more > > development than perhaps any of the other PETs. Yes, it is a chicklet > > keyboard version, with static RAM (2114's) and original 28-pin MOS > ROMs. > > > Well, there are no unpolulated sockets, so perhaps it's a fair bet that > > there's some extra stuff in there. Goodness knows what, though, all the > > ROMs are MOS 6540's. > > Then there's no extras. The MOS Technology 6540 ROMs are half the > capacity > of the 2332s in later boards, so there are seven of them in a standard > PET > and no spare sockets. > > > Figures :( I've had to do this once already to locate a broken 2114 > (when > > I got the machine, it claimed only 1600 bytes of memory were free). > > Luckily, I have one more spare 2114 (I got two from someone on this > list, > I > > forget who [for which I apologise] and thank them (again) profusely, as > if > > it is a broken 2114, there's a chance the second spare might be > essential). > > I think it was me (and I think you already said thankyou :-)) > > > Also, I know this has been asked & answered before, but what's the best > way > > of cleaning the board? It has more dust on it than I am properly > > comfortable with, and besides it looks horrible. > > > > I'm guessing that *ideally* it should be washed in distilled water with > a > > very soft brush, then left in a warm place to dry thoroughly. OTOH, > maybe > > alcohol would be a better idea? I have some disc head cleaning alcohol > > which would suffice - recommendations please! > > Start by vacuuming it with a powerful vacuum and a soft, small, > paintbrush > (about 1/2" - 1") to help disldge the dirt. You might not need to wash > it > after that. It's not too important for a board like this, but the air > rushing through a plastic vacuum nozzle can generate a surprising amount > of > static, so ideally the nozzle should be conductive, and grounded. > > If you do wash it, use some detergent, do not get it too hot, rinse with > distilled water and a *very small* amount of wetting agent (to help the > water drain). Blowing off the excess with low-pressure compressed air > and/or rinsing in IPA or meths (which mix with water and helps remove it) > may also be a good idea. Do make sure you get all the water out of > places > like IC sockets, switches, and connectors, as residues may eventually > lead > to corrosion. > > In extreme cases, or where I've had a lot of boards to clean, I've used > the > dishwasher -- but do not let the dishwasher do the normal drying cycle as > it's too hot for safety. Some dishwashers seem to use very hot water, > too, > and some types of PCB and some types of plastic don't like that. Don't > use > a dishwasher on boards that have non-sealed relays, transformers, paper > labels, etc. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > > --__--__-- > > Message: 16 > From: "Fred deBros" > To: > Subject: RE: Musings on BabyVAX video > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:34:21 -0500 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > I'm pretty sure that a VS3100-76 with no graphics board *will* come up > using onboard monochrome (use the green signal). > I don't think I've ever actually used one this way, but I do > know that the GPX and SPX options came with a little stick-on > panel that said either "GPX" or "SPX" in about the right size > and font to stick right after the "VAXstation 3100 M76" nameplate. > > Mine does and it is just a matter on which pin you pick it up in the > back of the box! I'd have to go to my office to ck it again. > > Fred > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 17 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:42:37 GMT > From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Update: BBC Acorn > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Jan 18, 10:23, Jules Richardson wrote: > > > > Do either of you think you have a Disc 1 for it? > > > > no discs at all I'm afraid :-( hence why I was asking about whther > there's a > > sensible ftp site to put them on so if a working set can be collected > at > least > > they can be archived somewhere (the same goes for manuals really, but > scanning > > those would be a major pain I expect!) > > Well, someone else has offered to copy Disc 1 for me. I've also found a > few other people who have ARM Evaluation Systems, so once I get a good > Disc > 1, I'll put the set of six on my website (and if anyone from any of the > Beeb sites wants to make a copy, that's fine by me). Any suggestions as > to > format to use for the images? > > I've also just been told that the production run of ARM (not ARM2) chips > was 2000. I know some were used in-house for other types of development > system (like the A500) and more were used for Springboard (an ISA card, > the > PC equivalent of the ARM Development System), so 50 or 100 seem likely > numbers for the quantity of ARM Development Kits made to fit Beebs. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > > --__--__-- > > Message: 18 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:09:30 -0600 (CST) > From: Doc Shipley > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Musings on BabyVAX video > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > > I thought so too. But what about SPX? Can it go into a > > > pre-M76 VS3100? And what about VS2K SPX? (It would of course > > > be very silly in practice, but I'm talking in principle.) > > > > SPX will go into KA42s - although I don't know for sure whether > > it was ever sold and supported. It will probably plug into a > > VS2K but I have no idea whether it will work (or whether anything > > would run on it without more code being written). > > I'll look when I get home (next month), but I'm pretty sure one of my > VS3100 m38 machines was labelled SPX from the factory. > > Doc > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 19 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:21:03 +0100 > From: Jochen Kunz > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: VXT X terminal question > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Fri, Jan 17, 2003 at 11:38:58PM -0000, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > Obviously you have to have a Qbus extension cable and some way > > of connecting it - the easiest way is a VAX 4000-1xx cab :-) > Well, the enclosure is the same. It is only a set of additional > connectors on the back an internal cabling. At least I interpreted > pictures of a VAX4k105 this way. But all I need is the pinout. > Building some cables is no problem and I have a QBus backplane > from a dead and rotten BA23. > > > > Sad that I have not the QBus cabling for my MV3100m95. A 83 > > > MHz NVAX (32 VUPs?) desktop VAX wirh QBus would be nice. > > It would indeed. The VAX 4000-1xx range is something that > > I only rarely got to play on. But there are plenty of > > other Qbus boxes around. > I have a MV II, MV III, MV3900, MV4k200, VAX4k300, VAX4k400 > and a PDP11-73. Enough QBus boxen to play. OK. I miss a KA640 > based machine. But none of them brings that power in that small > footprint and is easy to interface to lots of storage, i.e. > SCSI. > -- > > > > tschu?, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz > > --__--__-- > > Message: 20 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:29:24 +0100 > From: Jochen Kunz > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: VXT X terminal question > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Sat, Jan 18, 2003 at 10:50:58AM +0100, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > I have the Ultrix V4.50 source tree [no comment] and will be porting it > > to > > the M76, *and* (which is my target) my beloved 4000-700A. > Someone on the PUPS / TUHS list has ported 4.3BSD-Tahoe and / or > 4.3BSD-Reno to the VAX4000-7xx. AFAIK he had some porblems with > interrupts at autoconfig time, but got it running. > -- > > > > tschu?, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz > > --__--__-- > > Message: 21 > From: "Philip Pemberton" > To: > Subject: BBC Micro - assemblers - info needed > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:16:39 -0000 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Hi all, > I've just downloaded three assemblers from the ROM archive at > http://bbc.nvg.org . Catch is, none of them include manuals. I've got > copies > of: > VASM65 v2.0E by Vida Rebus > ASM 1.10 by SYSTEM (claims to be the "ASM 6502 Macro assembler > V1.10", > "Copyright (C) 1984 SYSTEM"). Contains text strings like "Press play", so > may be a tape->ROM conversion. > ROMAS 3.02 by TBK Associates (full copyright string = "ROMAS 3.02 > (C)1985 TBK Associates - S.C." > > Has anyone here got any documentation for these assemblers? I'd like > to > get at least one of them to assemble *something*. Perhaps a "Hello World" > program? > Also, Vasm outputs Intel Hex files from what I can gather - does > anyone > here have an Intel Hex -> Binary converter for the BBC Micro? > Finally, does anyone know how some discs were formatted so they were > compatible with 40-track and 80-track disc drives? > > Thanks. > -- > Phil. > philpem@dsl.pipex.com > http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 22 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:07:36 -0800 (PST) > From: "Peter C. Wallace" > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Musings on BabyVAX video > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > > I thought so too. But what about SPX? Can it go into a > > > pre-M76 VS3100? And what about VS2K SPX? (It would of course > > > be very silly in practice, but I'm talking in principle.) > > > > SPX will go into KA42s - although I don't know for sure whether > > it was ever sold and supported. It will probably plug into a > > VS2K but I have no idea whether it will work (or whether anything > > would run on it without more code being written). > > > I have a few VT1300's with SPX badges and SPX cards inside, so at least > the > Xterm verison of the KA42/SPX seems to have been supported... > > > Peter Wallace > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 23 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:23:06 -0800 (PST) > From: Sellam Ismail > To: > Subject: Re: IBM 5322 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > > The System 23 I briefly worked on (as in 'got inside') had a DE9 > > connector for the printer IIRC. It was a _current loop_ serial port, > and > > of course the character set is EBCDIC (but as you say, that's a minor > > problem). > > I was wondering what that connector was. Now I know :) > > > I think (based on the current loop on the PC Async card) that IBM's > > convention was that transmiters were active and non-isolated, receivers > > were passive and opto-isolated, but do check this before hooking > > anything up. > > Cool, after the punch card project I actually know what you're talking > about ;) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com > * > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 24 > Subject: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? > From: David Holland > To: Classic Computer Talk > Date: 18 Jan 2003 13:07:13 -0500 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Wot about SGI Crimson's? (Or in my case, a Power Series frame, w/ > Crimson boards in it) Or are they too new (and LARGE :-) ) for the > list? > > (Now for the possibly Off List questions of my post) > > I'd like to get hold of a Reality Engine for it as mine (alas) only has > a VGXT boardset. Anyone know where I could find one? > > I'd also be interested if anyone has interfaced a Sun Type 5 mouse to > it, as they look like they use the same protocol, just one is +5v logic, > the other is RS232? (Maxim's MAX232's sound vaguely useful, but they're > hard to find around here in 1sie 2sie counts) > > (The optical mouse I have for it is in too bad a shape to be really > usable anymore - the felts shot, and it sticks to the metal plate/mouse > pad too much for my tastes.) > > The whole thing that torque's me off the worst about it is.. its 3x's > bigger than my PC, and its 3x's quieter... :) > > Anyways, If I'm off list focus, someone point it out to me, and I'll > hush, and wait for the Apple II stuff to respond too.. :-) > > David > > On Fri, 2003-01-17 at 23:19, Brian Chase wrote: > > On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > > > It's not just on a system like that. Earlier this week I got my > first > SGI > > > system, a nice little O2. It's about the crappiest of the O2's, but > it's > > > still a *very* nice UNIX workstation. I thought that it was doing OK > > at > > > surfing until yesterday when I wanted to check something on gamespot, > > it > > > absolutly crawled to a halt trying to render the pages (well the > browser > > > did, the rest of the system was nice and responsive). I swear it > took > close > > > to 10 minutes to get to the third page (the one that had the data I > was > > > curious about). > > > > > > I think I'll now run the browser on my Linux box and retarget it to > the > > > SGI's desktop (at least until I get an Octane). > > > > I'll wait to get an Onyx. Actually, the Origin 2000s are quite lovely, > > too. They're still really off topic for this list. > > > > -brian. > > > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 25 > From: M H Stein > To: "'ClassicComputers'" > Subject: PET 2001 oddity > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:19:36 -0500 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Ethan: thanks for the info; I've never seen a > dynamic RAM 2001N, although a friend of mine > home-brewed a static > dynamic conversion. > 4032s of course, but I take it you're talking > about a real small-B/W-screen 2001. > > I sometimes toy with the idea of building > a PET using modern chips; shouldn't be too > big a deal (very low on my to-do list though). > > Adrian: Was working on adding my .02 to the > discussion, but read on and saw that you're > in business. If you can't find any locally, > I've got several tubes of 2114s here in frosty > Canada. And they are used in pairs because > they're only 4 bits wide (x 1K). > > One of my PETs, with an MTU graphics board, > is dead as well; this discussion just might > motivate me to have a look at it. > > Good luck! > > mike > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 26 > From: M H Stein > To: "'ClassicComputers'" > Subject: T&B Ansley IDC connectors > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:25:29 -0500 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > ---------------Original Message--------------- > Subject: T&B Ansley IDC connectors > From: "Jeffrey H. Ingber" > Date: 17 Jan 2003 19:17:20 -0500 > > Does anyone know where I can aquire the T&B ansley "light blue" IDC > ribbon cable connectors that were used by MITS? > > Googling reveals that Tyco purchased this line of connectors in 2001, > but I can't find any mention of T&B Ansley on their web site. > > Thanks, > Jeff > ------------------------------------------------------- > Used to use a lot of these & have a few left; Exactly which ones are > you looking for? > > mike > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 27 > From: M H Stein > To: "'ClassicComputers'" > Subject: PerSci Model 277 Dual 8" Floppy Drives - Info Needed > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:29:05 -0500 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > ---------------------Original Message------------------------- > From: "Tim Myers" > To: > Subject: PerSci Model 277 Dual 8" Floppy Drives - Info Needed > > Does anyone have any info on these drives? I have some in a CP/M system > (Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1), and they seem completely dead. They have an > electric load mechanism, but when I insert a disk, nothing happens. > Popped the case and can't see anything obviously out of place. > > Tim. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Cromemco used these in early models of the System 3; not exactly the most > reliable. Sorry to say, I scrapped several of them a year ago and, > although > I've > got manuals for most Cromemco stuff I don't think I've got any docs on > these. > > But I'll have a look and let you know if I find anything. Meanwhile, > there > are > probably several people on this list who have them and could perhaps at > least compare notes with ya. They are getting power? > > Good luck, > > mike > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 28 > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Subject: Re: About Electronics Questions > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:32:58 +0000 (GMT) > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > The biggest thing however for anybody doing repair > > is get all the doc's you can even before you start > > repairing something.A schematic is a very useful > > Agreed (why do you think I have a few _thousand_ scheamtics/repair > manuals...). However, the schematic is not always available (maybe not > anywhere any more), so it can be useful to be able to make guesses and > 'find your way aobut' without a schematic. Alas this comes with (a lot > of) practice... > > > PS Caps are the first thing to go in any equiment > > unless you let the magic smoke out first. > > Hmmm.. Not always. I've had a number of HP98x0 machines on the bench in > the last few months. I've had to change _one_ electrolytic capacitor and > about 20 TTL chipes (particularly 74Hxx parts). And we all know that 2114 > RAM chips are often dead... > > -tony > > --__--__-- > > Message: 29 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:13:48 -0800 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > From: "Zane H. Healy" > Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > >Didn't see one at a fiver. Saw > >http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1484&item=23017 > >94356 > >which is claimed to be a UV3100-95. Assuming it is, then it's > >a darned fast VAX (in VAX terms) and really well worth having. > > That's one nice VAX, I'm glad it's on the other side of the pond :^) > > >The DLT looks more like a TZ30 to me (still nice to have) and > > A good indication that it's a TZ30 is that it's a half-height drive. The > TZ30 is the only half-height drive that uses Compact-Tapes. > > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > > --__--__-- > > Message: 30 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:26:42 -0800 (PST) > From: Sellam Ismail > To: > Subject: Re: Dear Santa, I would like a Yamaha CX5M ... > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > Anyone ever seen someone out there trying to get rid of a Yamaha CX5M? > It's > > about the only MSX machine I have significant curiosity about due to > its > > specialised music abilities. > > Yes, and I helped them get rid of it by taking it away for them ;) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com > * > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 31 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:38:05 -0600 (CST) > From: Tothwolf > To: Classic Computer > Subject: Re: Apple 1 schematics > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, chris wrote: > > > In reading my copy of Collectible Microcomputers (yes yes, you all get > > it by now, I like the book... ok, I'll stop refering to it after > > this)... I noticed in the Apple Computer section a mention of how > > Apple's first customers were the folks that got schematics for the > Apple > > 1 when it was first shown at Home Brew. > > > > Although I already knew that they alledgedly gave out schematics... I > > began to wonder A: did they really (probably) and B: do any copies > exist > > anywhere? > > > > I thought it might be a fun project to try an build an Apple 1 from the > > schematics... just as the first users probably did. So, does anyone > know > > if they are available, or does anyone have a copy and might want to > send > > me a set? Or are copies just as elusive as the Apple 1 itself and there > > is no shot in ever getting them. > > Ok, I guess its time I post on the list about this... > > I've been thinking about this very project for sometime. The main > problems > that I came up with are: > 1. certain parts are difficult to find > 2. ROM source and/or binary image availability > 3. re-creating the pc boards > > The first problem should be possible to overcome either by finding a > stock > of surplus parts, or should significant demand exist, having the parts > made by a company that specializes in fabricating out of production > parts. > I've actually looked into the later a couple times in the past, and the > prices didn't seem to be out of line. I've even wondered if it would be > possible to get a copy of the mask from Intel for say the i8008 or i4004 > and have reproductions made. > > The second and third problems may be slightly more difficult to overcome. > One option would be to find an Apple 1, dump the ROMs, carefully unsolder > all the parts and scan each side of the cleaned pc boards. The scanned > images can then be used to create gerber files. I personally don't have > the funds to go out and buy an Apple 1, and I don't know of anyone who > would give up one just for it to be taken to bits. > > Another option for the second and third problems is to contact Woz and > see > if he would be willing to help. I have so far restrained myself from > emailing him, since I know he gets tons and tons of emails, including > people asking him if he has an Apple 1 he could give them, etc. I'd > imagine Woz would very much like to see the Apple 1 preserved, but it > would probably take him quite a bit of time to find all the docs and info > that we'd need. > > -Toth > > --__--__-- > > Message: 32 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:41:14 -0500 > From: David Gesswein > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips > > Fairchild 9311 (4 bit -> 16 line decoder?) > > 1 of 16 decoder > > 1 : 0 > 2 : 1 > 3 : 2 > 4 : 3 > 5 : 4 > 6 : 5 > 7 : 6 > 8 : 7 > 9 : 8 > 10 : 9 > 11 : 10 > 12 : Gnd > 13 : 11 > 14 : 12 > 15 : 13 > 16 : 14 > 17 : 15 > 18 : E1 > 19 : E2 > 20 : A3 > 21 : A2 > 22 : A1 > 23 : A0 > 24 : Vcc > > E1 and E2 both low to enable output. Outputs 0-15 are active low > > Fairchild 93L14 (latch?) > Probably same as NSC > http://www.national.com/ds/93/93L14.pdf > > Signetics 8273 (10 bit serial-in, parallel out shift register) > > 1 : Q6 > 2 : Q7 > 3 : Q8 > 4 : Q9 > 5 : Q10 > 6 : ClK1/ > 7 : CLK2 > 8 : Gnd > 9 : Clr/ > 10 : Serial In > 11 : Q1 > 12 : Q2 > 13 : Q3 > 14 : Q4 > 15 : Q5 > 16 : Vcc > > Clk2 low and clk1 works > clk1 high and clk2 works > clk1 feeds an inverter then is ored with clk2 and result inverted to > clock the flip flops. > > David Gesswein > http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights. > > --__--__-- > > Message: 33 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:53:42 -0600 (CST) > From: Tothwolf > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: DOS 1.0 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Live Wire wrote: > > > > I do also memember Wordstar and it's arcane command sequences. Those > > > commands persisted though, through a number of ordinary text editors > > > for programmers & such. > > > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/joe-editor/ > > > > This is as close to wordstar and the WS CTRL-K-x command set I have > > found. I used to use wordstar on a tiny portable computer with a 4 line > > display to write asm for the amiga 500 and then dump it via the built > in > > modem. Joe is my favorite editor today, though I find myself living in > > vi for the most part... > > I use 'joe' constantly myself. It's my day to day editor for editing > source code. I have used vi and vim somewhat, but I've honestly not yet > taken the time to learn vi as well as I should. I'm sure I must be > missing > out by not using vi (well, thats what other software developers tell me), > but joe is fast and does what I need it to. > > Somewhere, I have a complete Wordstar set for the Apple II. IIRC, I > pulled > it and some other complete Apple II software from a trash pile back in > 1998 or so. > > -Toth > > --__--__-- > > Message: 34 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 03 11:13:01 PST > From: msokolov@ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Hobbled NVAX > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > I doubt that non-hobbled firmware exists. I doubt you > > could just use the UV3100-96 firmware upgrade on a > > UV3100-85 and have it work. In fact, I guess the firmware > > is the same but it looks at the machine's hardware (e.g. > > size and config of backup cache or something like that) > > to determine what it is running on, and disables the VIC > > if it thinks the machine is a UV3100-85. > > Umm, I don't think so. It looks like the firmware is the only difference > between M85 and the equivalent M9x model and the hardware is the same. In > > this > case flashing M9x firmware would obviously give you the M9x model. But > even > if > the M85 board was really different in B-cache or something from all M9x > models, > I doubt that the firmware could detect this by "looking at the hardware". > > AFAIK > it's the firmware that has to tell the chips how the board is configured, > > not > the other way around. > > If indeed the hobbled and non-hobbled firmware are the same code, what it > > looks > at to make the decision is most probably a flag in the second longword of > > the > ROM. > > > The easiest thing to do would be to try reenabling the VIC. > > If that is not enough, you would have to find the bit of code > > that disables the VIC and NOP it out. > > Well, if it munges the microcode I would go for option 2 in any case. > > BTW, do you know for sure that it really munges the microcode and not > just > disables the VIC in the same way normal caches from CVAX onward can be > enabled > and disabled as you like? > > MS > > --__--__-- > > Message: 35 > From: "Gareth Knight" > To: > Subject: New classic > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:20:36 -0000 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > http://c64upgra.de/c-one/s_pictures.htm > First pictures of the CommodoreOne pre-production board are now online: > ""the pictures section has been extended by 11 pictures of the > pre-production board. Basic testing has already been done, all chips are > responding positively to diagnostic access. A 100% test procedure will be > developed this weekend." > -- > Gareth Knight > Amiga Interactive Guide | Team *AMIGA* member > http://amiga.emugaming.com | http://www.amigau.com/aig/index.html > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 36 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 03 11:28:06 PST > From: msokolov@ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: VXT X terminal question > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > Ugh. Make that V4.20, obviously. Development is done on my V4.5 box.. > > > > Shitty thing is, that I probably will also have to run a 4.2 system as > > a second-step system for bootstrapping, and I dont have a 4.2/vax tk50 > > or cd set. > > Why can't you compile and use the V4.20 kernel on your V4.50 system? > > BTW, have you tried booting VXT on different VS3100s? I would really like > > to > use a KA43 for my own VXT if possible, but I need to know if it is or > not. > > MS > > --__--__-- > > Message: 37 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:23:31 -0500 (EST) > From: vance@neurotica.com > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org, > Subject: MCA Fast Ethernet Cards > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > Would the people who wanted the PS/2 100Mbps ethernet cards send me an > email? I have access to them now and can ship soon. > > Peace... Sridhar > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 38 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:32:12 -0800 (PDT) > From: Brian Chase > To: Classic Computer Talk > Subject: Re: SGI Discussions? > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On 18 Jan 2003, David Holland wrote: > > > Wot about SGI Crimson's? (Or in my case, a Power Series frame, w/ > > Crimson boards in it) Or are they too new (and LARGE :-) ) for the > > list? > > Pfft! You call that large!? There are plenty of folks on this list > who'd mock the relatively dainty size of the SGI Power Series frames. > There are people on the list with IBM mainframes, PDP-10s, big VAXen, > and a few Crays. > > > (Now for the possibly Off List questions of my post) > > > > I'd like to get hold of a Reality Engine for it as mine (alas) only has > > a VGXT boardset. Anyone know where I could find one? > > > > I'd also be interested if anyone has interfaced a Sun Type 5 mouse to > > it, as they look like they use the same protocol, just one is +5v > logic, > > the other is RS232? (Maxim's MAX232's sound vaguely useful, but > they're > > hard to find around here in 1sie 2sie counts) > > > > (The optical mouse I have for it is in too bad a shape to be really > > usable anymore - the felts shot, and it sticks to the metal plate/mouse > > pad too much for my tastes.) > > I'll see if we have any spare older mice. I know at least with the Indy > and Indigo2s onward they all used regular PS/2 mice. I'm not sure about > the Onyx systems, or the gear predating the mid-1990s time frame. My > introduction to SGI equipment came around 1994 or so. > > About a year ago my employer returned several pallets worth of Indigo2s > and Indys (~80-100 systems) to SGI for trade ins on Octane2s. It took > about 6 months for SGI to even bother to come and pick them up. I've a > feeling they all ended up being dumpstered once they got back to SGI. > Saving them was out of the question as a list of serial numbers had been > given to SGI; because they were trade ins, they actually had to be > traded in. It's too bad. > > On another note, perhaps more related to the list, the new building that > the Computer History Museum is moving into is actually the old SGI > headquarters on Shoreline Dr. in Mountain View. It's a lovely building; > I can't wait until they get things prettied up and moved into the new > location. > > -brian. > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 39 > From: "Antonio Carlini" > To: > Subject: RE: VXT X terminal question > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 20:51:41 -0000 > Organization: me@home > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > Well, the enclosure is the same. It is only a set of additional > > connectors on the back an internal cabling. At least I interpreted > > pictures of a VAX4k105 this way. But all I need is the pinout. > > Building some cables is no problem and I have a QBus backplane > > from a dead and rotten BA23. > > I have a UV3100-90 and I've been close to a VAX 4000-100 (it > just wasn't mine). The VAX 4000-100 enclosure has a distinctive > sloping part at the back which houses the Qbus (and DSSI?) > connectors. I didn't get to look closely enough to see whether > this housing is an add-on to the UV3100-90 enclosure or the whole > case is a manufacturing modification of that enclosure. Either way, > the standard shipping UV3100-90 enclosure does not have anywhere > for Qbus and DSSI connectors. > > I'll look for pinouts if I can dig up the right docs. > > Antonio > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 40 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:04:54 -0500 (EST) > From: "r. 'bear' stricklin" > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Musings on BabyVAX video > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Doc Shipley wrote: > > > I'll look when I get home (next month), but I'm pretty sure one of my > > VS3100 m38 machines was labelled SPX from the factory. > > I just hauled home an m38 that had... an SPX installed. Right after I > bought an SPX card for my m76, to replace the GPX in it. The two SPX > cards > are identical in every way (except possibly dustiness). > > ok > r. > > --__--__-- > > Message: 41 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:08:55 -0500 (EST) > From: "r. 'bear' stricklin" > To: Classic Computer Talk > Subject: Re: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, David Holland wrote: > > > (The optical mouse I have for it is in too bad a shape to be really > > usable anymore - the felts shot, and it sticks to the metal plate/mouse > > pad too much for my tastes.) > > Uh.. > > Or you could go spend $1 on some felt and glue at the craft store, and > fix > it. > > ok > r. > > --__--__-- > > Message: 42 > Subject: RE: VXT X terminal question > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:14:35 +0100 > From: "Fred N. van Kempen" > To: > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > All, > > Although I have both the M38 and M76 set up, I cant get the video > part to work - tube (that is on a VXT2000 right now) doesn't seem > to sync on either model. The M38 is standard, the M76 is the SPX > model. Anyone have a clue? > > --fred > > --__--__-- > > Message: 43 > Subject: Apple 1 schematics > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:22:30 -0500 > From: chris > To: "Classic Computer" > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > In reading my copy of Collectible Microcomputers (yes yes, you all get it > by now, I like the book... ok, I'll stop refering to it after this)... I > noticed in the Apple Computer section a mention of how Apple's first > customers were the folks that got schematics for the Apple 1 when it was > first shown at Home Brew. > > Although I already knew that they alledgedly gave out schematics... I > began to wonder A: did they really (probably) and B: do any copies exist > anywhere? > > I thought it might be a fun project to try an build an Apple 1 from the > schematics... just as the first users probably did. So, does anyone know > if they are available, or does anyone have a copy and might want to send > me a set? Or are copies just as elusive as the Apple 1 itself and there > is no shot in ever getting them. > > -chris > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 44 > Subject: RE: VXT X terminal question > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:23:32 +0100 > From: "Fred N. van Kempen" > To: > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Jochen writes: > > > Someone on the PUPS / TUHS list has ported 4.3BSD-Tahoe and / or > > 4.3BSD-Reno to the VAX4000-7xx. AFAIK he had some porblems with > > interrupts at autoconfig time, but got it running. > Heh. This is not too hard, but *only* if he used the machine with > a KFQSA (DSSI-to-MSCP) controller, rather than the onboard SHAC. > > It'd be a start, though. Michael, was this you? > > --fred > > --__--__-- > > Message: 45 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 03 13:44:31 PST > From: msokolov@ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: VXT X terminal question > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > > Someone on the PUPS / TUHS list has ported 4.3BSD-Tahoe and / or > > > 4.3BSD-Reno to the VAX4000-7xx. AFAIK he had some porblems with > > > interrupts at autoconfig time, but got it running. > > Heh. This is not too hard, but *only* if he used the machine with > > a KFQSA (DSSI-to-MSCP) controller, rather than the onboard SHAC. > > > > It'd be a start, though. Michael, was this you? > > Not me. My 4.3BSD suffix is Quasijarus, not Tahoe or Reno. But my opinion > > on > SHAC is radically different from yours. SHAC is a darling beauty. It is a > problem only for cheap OSes like NutBSD and Linsux. Since SHAC is a true > CI > host adapter with the true Generic VAX Port (GVP) it is perfectly > supported > by > the SCA CI port driver present in every proper VAX OS with SCA such as > Ultrix. > Although DEC killed VAX Ultrix before MicroVAXen with SHAC came about, > source > examination shows that the Ultrix V4.20 CI port driver supports SHAC (on > XMI). > Some day I will lift the SCA code wholesale from Ultrix and plop it into > 4.3BSD-Quasijarus. > > MS > > --__--__-- > > Message: 46 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:13:56 -0800 (PST) > Subject: Re: Apple 1 schematics > From: "Eric Smith" > To: > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > chris asks about Apple I schematics. > > Although I already knew that they alledgedly gave out schematics... I > > began to wonder A: did they really (probably) and B: do any copies > exist > > anywhere? > > A: Yes. > B: Google is your friend. > > > I thought it might be a fun project to try an build an Apple 1 from the > > schematics... > > It's *extremely* difficult to find some of the Apple I parts, which have > been out of production for over years. Particularly the seven 1024-bit > MOS shift registers, and one hex-40-bit MOS shift register. > > > just as the first users probably did. > > Not quite, since they had a PCB. (Unless you plan to lay out a PCB > yourself.) > > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 47 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:16:19 +0000 > From: John Honniball > Organization: Stoke Gifford Computer Museum > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Got the second batch of -11 equipment > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Bill Bradford wrote: > > Anybody want two RL02s (by the way, how the hell do I get the top > covers > > open? The "switch" on the top wont budge), and two RL01s? > > If the RL02s are like the RL01, there's a little metal panel on the > side, near the "switch". Unscrew that, and you should see the solenoid > interlock mechanism. Fiddle with that, and the "switch" should open > the top cover. > > You'll need to lock the heads down if you're going to ship the drives. > There's a little metal flap below the head carriage, visible with the > top cover open and no pack in the drive. A single screw holds it in the > "open" position. Loosen the screw, turn the flap 90 degrees, then > tighten the screw. The flap is now in front of the head carriage, > preventing it from moving. > > > Pickup in Austin, Texas.. > > I know someone here in Bristol who'd take the RL02s, if they weren't > so far away. > > -- > John Honniball > coredump@gifford.co.uk > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 48 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:19:34 +0000 > From: John Honniball > Organization: Stoke Gifford Computer Museum > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Apple 1 schematics > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > chris wrote: > > Although I already knew that they alledgedly gave out schematics... I > > began to wonder A: did they really (probably) and B: do any copies > exist > > anywhere? > > Parts of the Apple I schematics are shown in the second edition of > "Fire In The Valley". Not enought to build a complete replica, > though. You can see, however, that there's an option for installing > either a 6502 CPU or a 6800. > > -- > John Honniball > coredump@gifford.co.uk > > > > > End of cctech Digest > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003 > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003 > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From mhstein at canada.com Wed Jan 22 00:09:33 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:55 2005 Subject: Any Cromemco USERS? Message-ID: <01C2C0A3.5F48BD40@mse-d03> -------------------Original Message-------------------------- From: "Bill Sudbrink" To: Subject: RE: Any Cromemco USERS? Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:31:19 -0500 Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Just curious; is anybody actually using a Cromemco system > out there, running either CDOS, Cromix or Unix? Or does > anyone at least have one in running condition? I have an IMSAI chasis stuffed with cromemco boards. I run CP/M on it... but I don't think there would be a reason it wouldn't run a cromemco OS. It has a CPUZ, a 16FDC, a 64KZ and a TU-ART in it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- No, unless there are some unusual mods, I'd think that a set of Cromemco boards would run a Cromemco OS just fine. BTW, I assume you mean a ZPU? I'd be interested in knowing how you got CP/M onto the Cromix diskettes and configured for its memory model? TM100 drive(s) I assume? One of my systems is in a Vector chassis, because it's easier to work on and the fans are quieter. Anyway, just curious; always surprised me that there seem to be so few Cromemco fans and how little info there seems to be, especially about the later Unix models which could give DEC a run for their money. Just wanna swap tales I guess. Thanks, mike From mhstein at canada.com Wed Jan 22 00:10:34 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:55 2005 Subject: Any Cromemco USERS? Message-ID: <01C2C0A3.675F5B60@mse-d03> -------------------------Original Message------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:13:49 -0800 (PST) From: Sellam Ismail To: "'ClassicComputers'" Subject: Re: Any Cromemco USERS? On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, M H Stein wrote: > Just curious; is anybody actually using a Cromemco system > out there, running either CDOS, Cromix or Unix? Or does > anyone at least have one in running condition? I have a System/One in running condition (last I checked) running Cromix from the harddrive. I have two actually. One was exhibited at the first VCF but because of all the moving the hard drive got crashed :( To my knowledge, the other one is still running, but I haven't fired it up in years. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, you don't count, Sellam; you've got at least two of everything. If that System/One has the 5Mb IMI drive, as most of them did, those drives had a very common problem with the index sensor moving, very easy to adjust. If & when I send you that pile of books & manuals, I'll include a copy of the relevant service bulletin, in case you feel like looking at it some day. Gonna copy it right now and add it to the pile before I forget. mike From mike at ambientdesign.com Wed Jan 22 00:11:33 2003 From: mike at ambientdesign.com (mike@ambientdesign.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:55 2005 Subject: Wang 2200T available in Auckland, NZ In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030119181927.01dd9c60@postoffice.pacbell.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030121135614.01005008@pop3.ihug.co.nz> At 18:24 19/01/03 -0800, you wrote: >I was contacted by a man who has a friend looking to get rid of a "Wang >2200T". I don't know if it is just the CPU, or an entire system. A 2200T >was the last of the first generation 2200 CPUs, put out just before >starting the 2200VP line. Hi! I don't know very much about the Wang 2200T, but I'd be very happy to give it a home in my collection. Having done some research, it looks like an interesting machine! I'm in Auckland, so that makes things fairly easy. Mike. >>From: Neil Stichbury >>To: "'frustum@pacbell.net'" >>Subject: 2200T >>Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:27:50 +1300 >>MIME-Version: 1.0 >>X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) >>Content-Type: text/plain; >> charset="iso-8859-1" >> >>I have a colleague who has a 2200T in his garage, believed to be working. >>Of use to anyone ?. >> >> >>Neil Stichbury >>Client Services Specialist >> >>gen-i >> technology*passion*success >> >>9 City Road, Auckland, New Zealand >>Ph: +64 9 306 4717 >>Fax: +64 9 306 4543 >>Mob: +64 21 274 9136 >>E-mail: Neil.Stichbury@gen-i.co.nz >>Web: www.gen-i.co.nz >> >>* People Achieving Success Through Technology * > >A followup email said: > >>Hi Jim, >>It's in Auckland. We can possibly 'assist' with transportation costs as we >>would rather give it to a good home than dump it. >> >>Regards, >>Neil Stichbury > >According to his web page, gen-i used to be known as "wang new zealand", so >I suspect he knows what he is talking about! > >----- >Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net > > > From gene at ehrich.com Wed Jan 22 00:12:35 2003 From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:55 2005 Subject: Fwd: Commodore Collection Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030120214532.00bd24b8@popmail.voicenet.com> In case anyone is interested: >From: DA Floyd >Subject: Commodore Collection >To: COMMODOR@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Hello everyone > >I have a collection of vintage computers, including a significant >Commodore collection including a C64's, C128, Plus 4, Vic's, Commodore >monitor, printer, etc. I also have Apples, TI's, Timex Sinclair's and >IBM's. I want to sell it all...anyone have any suggestions of where I can >go to sell this stuff? > >Thanks > >Duane A. Floyd >dfloyd1009@cs.com From jwillis at dahmer.vistech.net Wed Jan 22 00:13:33 2003 From: jwillis at dahmer.vistech.net (jwillis@dahmer.vistech.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:55 2005 Subject: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape Message-ID: <030120220006.228072db@dahmer.vistech.net> Greetings, Does anyone know of a source for Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape? (TU80) Thanks, John W. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Jan 22 00:14:35 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:55 2005 Subject: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... In-Reply-To: <3E2C4DAA.9080009@srv.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Kevin Handy > Sent: 20 January 2003 19:28 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... > > If you have electrical heating (as opposed to gas/coal/oil/...), then > running > the VAX will not cost any more. Electricity generates the same amount of > heat per kilowatt, no matter how is used. It will not cost any more than > running > the electrical heating units for the same amount of power. Only problem > would be moving the heat to the proper location, and regulating it. ;-) Heh; that would be great! Pity we're on gas heating over here :) From kandres at epssecurity.com Wed Jan 22 00:15:34 2003 From: kandres at epssecurity.com (Kevin Andres) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:56 2005 Subject: PET 2001 Oddity 6550 Unobtainiums Message-ID: <099F935BC4E3B941984DED87DE9B482F0844ED@EPS-exchange.eps.sec.int.net> Witchy, Thanks for the input. My problem with the "Unobtainiums" is that not only were they MOSTEK chips with their own pinout, they were that nonstandard half again as big dip size, which meant that you couldn't even come up with a carrier to bodge together a replacement of something newer. Thus, I collected the CD6264 rams and am looking at those for replacements. As to the request for the reset I used, standby, I am getting together a jpeg of it, and will send it under separate cover. From memory, it was a form C momentary button with button guard that I drilled a hole for in the Blue Banner at the far right. Long wire from there to the circuit board because of the hinged top case. Smarter thing would have been to mount it under the lip on the side of the case, but I was young and in a hurry right then and tired of powering off. Kev -----Original Message----- From: cctech-request@classiccmp.org [SMTP:cctech-request@classiccmp.org] Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 11:48 PM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #324 - 14 msgs Send cctech mailing list submissions to cctech@classiccmp.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cctech-request@classiccmp.org You can reach the person managing the list at cctech-admin@classiccmp.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of cctech digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Found a NCR system 3400 BoatAnchor (WiIdcats@aol.com) 2. Re: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? (Dave McGuire) 3. RE: Core memory speeds (Charles Ader) 4. RE: PET 2001 Oddity - 6550 unobtainium! (Witchy) 5. RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... (Witchy) 6. RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... (Fred N. van Kempen) 7. Re: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips (Peter C. Wallace) 8. Re: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... (Kevin Handy) 9. Re: Any Cromemco USERS? (Sellam Ismail) 10. Need manuals for Electrim EDC-1000 and Dycam Model 1 ($$$) (Vintage Computer Festival) 11. RE: Any Cromemco USERS? (Bill Sudbrink) 12. DOS1.0, 3.20, and the like... (Ed Tillman) 13. Re: Core memory speeds (Jos Dreesen / Marian Capel) 14. RE: PET 2001 Oddity - 6550 unobtainium! (Ethan Dicks) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: WiIdcats@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:25:21 EST Subject: Found a NCR system 3400 BoatAnchor To: cctech@classiccmp.org Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org --part1_16f.1975eb72.2b5d8b01_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit did you ever sell this boat anchor? i have one i want to sell also. -Johnny --part1_16f.1975eb72.2b5d8b01_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit did you ever sell this boat anchor? i have one i want to sell also. -Johnny --part1_16f.1975eb72.2b5d8b01_boundary-- --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 13:55:55 -0500 Subject: Re: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? Cc: Classic Computer Talk To: cctech@classiccmp.org From: Dave McGuire Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Monday, January 20, 2003, at 09:59 AM, David Holland wrote: > Anyone got a PIC programmer they'd use for me? :-) I may be looking > to have someone program a couple of 16F28's here real soon. I have PIC programming capability here, and would be happy to burn some chips for you. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols --__--__-- Message: 3 Subject: RE: Core memory speeds Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:26:50 -0800 From: "Charles Ader" To: Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Jos Dreesen / Marian Capel [mailto:jos.mar@bluewin.ch] > Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 12:10 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Core memory speeds > > > On Monday 20 January 2003 12:02 am, ben franchuk wrote: > > Since I am building a classic TTL style computer, > > what was the access and cycle time of core memory > > before it vanished and just when did it do that? > > Also when did 74LS come out? I am aiming for late > > 70's early 80's time frame here since this looks > > to be the transition stage from the the old to > > the new. Ben > > > My 1975 core memory products catalogue ( Philips components ) > lists modules with cycle times ranging from 0.65 to 1.5 us, > both for 8kx18 stacks. > > My newest core memory stack sits in my Philips P856 : > dated 1980, cycle time unknown. > > My own TTL computer, dated 1986, just uses 8kx8 SRAMs...... > > > Jos Dreesen > With core memory the general rule was the smaller the donut the faster the cycle. The real limiting factors have always been the physical size of the array of cores. The plane, a mat of wires with little teeny-tiny ferrite donuts at each intersection, looks electrically like a lot of inductors all strung in series. This is a good configuration for a low pass filter that we are going to put a very fast pulse through. The bottom line of all this is that even fast core memory tends have around 0.490us write cycle times. Read cycles are always twice the write cycle times. This means you need to read the core memory specs carefully. Be sure that you see the both read and write cycle times. If you can only find one it will most likely be the write cycle time. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Witchy" To: Subject: RE: PET 2001 Oddity - 6550 unobtainium! Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 18:57:59 -0000 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Kevin Andres > Sent: 20 January 2003 15:10 > To: 'cctech@classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: PET 2001 Oddity - 6550 unobtainium! > > > To all, (for fear of missing someone!) > I have a PET with the feared 6550 Unobtainiums. It doesn't > even get to a > prompt, but I suspect the screen full > of characters with some blinking and some that change upon an [ENTER] key > is telling me a video RAM went south. As When my 2001 did that I got some 2114s from bgmicro.com to swap out the video RAM and it works sweetly now. -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Witchy" To: , Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 18:59:13 -0000 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Jochen Kunz > Sent: 20 January 2003 10:15 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... > > > On 2003.01.19 12:30 Witchy wrote: > > > The thing that's puzzling me is the fact they've shoehorned an RX33 > > in there - I thought the 3100-10 was the only machine to have floppy > > capability...... > I have a 2.88 MB SCSI floppy in my MV3100m95. Live and learn eh :) I didn't know that was possible. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans --__--__-- Message: 6 Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:05:21 +0100 From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: , Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org I have several 3100's with diskette drive (both MFM and SCSI). --f > -----Original Message----- > From: Witchy [mailto:witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk] > Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 1:52 PM > To: vance@neurotica.com > Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: vance@neurotica.com [mailto:vance@neurotica.com] > > Sent: 20 January 2003 06:20 > > To: Witchy > > Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... > > > > > I certainly never sold any and I don't remember it being an > > option for the > > > bigger machines. Pity it's front cover is missing too, but for > > 20-odd quid I > > > wouldn't complain :) > > > > That's not exactly right. I've seen everything between > TK50Z's and DLT > > TZ87's in MicroVAX III-series machines. > > Sorry, I meant 3100 series uVAXen :) > > -- > adrian/witchy > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans > > --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:56:11 -0800 (PST) From: "Peter C. Wallace" To: "'ClassicComputers'" Subject: Re: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, M H Stein wrote: > ----------------------Original Message------------------------ > One question. Assuming the signal names are conventional, that's the same > pinout as the '154 decoder. And yet my (ancient, hardbacked) TI TTL book > says that while the 74154 is a logical replacement, it's not a direct > replacement (this implies to me a different pinout). One of the pinouts I > received had the A inputs in the oposite order (20 = A0 .. 23 = A3). Can > somebody please check which is correct. > -tony > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Well, you'll probably get another dozen replies from the other helpful folks > here, but the pinouts and logic tables are identical and 23=a0, 20=a3. > I thought the same when I looked at the 9311, that it sure looked like a > 74154 which was used everywhere, and that there must be a pinout or > big characteristic difference to make it worth FSC's while (since they > also made the '154, and TI, NSC and Motorola, who also made the 9311). Didn't the 9311 pre-date the 74154? IICRC, a lot of the the 9300 series stuff got copied by TI (9300,9316 for example) when they got the synchronous is better message that Fairchild was promoting with the 9300 series... (wish I still had that Orange 9300 series designers guide) > > But the only difference I can see is that the max propagation delay is > less on the 9311; maybe someone else will see something else. > > mike > > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:27:38 -0700 From: Kevin Handy To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Witchy wrote: >>-----Original Message----- >>From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On >>Behalf Of Antonio Carlini >>Sent: 19 January 2003 18:46 >>To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... >> >> >> >>>Frankly, the 8800 is too big, but that is too small... >>> >>> >>Then I guess you need to aim for one of the VAX 4000 >>series, but shipping on those will be pretty >>expensive. >> >> > >You're not kidding - not so long back a local college I do work for decided >to toss their 4000-500 plus RRD42 and TLZ06; fortunately I was there at the >time with a suitably sized estate car (station wagon for our US readers) so >2 of us managed to lift it into the back. When I got home I had to >completely strip it down in situ just to lift the bits out on my own and get >it in the house. In my reseller days the 4000 series were delivered on a >pallet with extra ramps to allow you to wheel the machine down to ground >level and now I know why :) > >Spent a happy couple of hours or so tonight getting my Alpha 3000-400 and >uVAX 3100-90 going again after a few months in storage, and I wish we could >afford the power to have 2 webservers going at the same time! Since we moved >into this house we've doubled our power requirements just for heating and >lighting; 3 machines going at the same time hasn't helped, so an extra VAX >sized load on things *definitely* won't help :) > If you have electrical heating (as opposed to gas/coal/oil/...), then running the VAX will not cost any more. Electricity generates the same amount of heat per kilowatt, no matter how is used. It will not cost any more than running the electrical heating units for the same amount of power. Only problem would be moving the heat to the proper location, and regulating it. ;-) >cheers > > > --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:13:49 -0800 (PST) From: Sellam Ismail To: "'ClassicComputers'" Subject: Re: Any Cromemco USERS? Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, M H Stein wrote: > Just curious; is anybody actually using a Cromemco system > out there, running either CDOS, Cromix or Unix? Or does > anyone at least have one in running condition? I have a System/One in running condition (last I checked) running Cromix from the harddrive. I have two actually. One was exhibited at the first VCF but because of all the moving the hard drive got crashed :( To my knowledge, the other one is still running, but I haven't fired it up in years. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:21:55 -0800 (PST) From: Vintage Computer Festival To: Classic Computers Mailing List Subject: Need manuals for Electrim EDC-1000 and Dycam Model 1 ($$$) Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org ----- Message Text ----- I have an outstanding bounty. I am seeking out manuals for the Electrim EDC-1000 and Dycam Model 1 computer imaging cameras circa late-80s/early-90s. If you have these manuals and want to earn a little extra cash, please contact me directly at . -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Bill Sudbrink" To: Subject: RE: Any Cromemco USERS? Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:31:19 -0500 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Just curious; is anybody actually using a Cromemco system > out there, running either CDOS, Cromix or Unix? Or does > anyone at least have one in running condition? I have an IMSAI chasis stuffed with cromemco boards. I run CP/M on it... but I don't think there would be a reason it wouldn't run a cromemco OS. It has a CPUZ, a 16FDC, a 64KZ and a TU-ART in it. --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Ed Tillman" To: Subject: DOS1.0, 3.20, and the like... Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 13:58:40 -0600 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Hello... Still looking. Someone sent me a reply in the list with a complete set of IBM PC-DOS 1.0 still in the package. I replied, but never saw either my reply or any answer come back. I'm still interested in buying, if I/we can make arrangements... Cheers! Ed --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Jos Dreesen / Marian Capel Organization: None To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Core memory speeds Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 21:09:41 +0100 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Monday 20 January 2003 12:02 am, ben franchuk wrote: > Since I am building a classic TTL style computer, what was the access > and cycle time of core memory before it vanished and just when did it do > that? Also when did 74LS come out? I am aiming for late 70's early 80's > time frame here since this looks to be the transition stage from the the > old to the new. Ben My 1975 core memory products catalogue ( Philips components ) lists modules with cycle times ranging from 0.65 to 1.5 us ,both for 8kx18 stacks. My newest core memory stack sits in my Philips P856 : dated 1980, cycle time unknown. My own TTL computer, dated 1986, just uses 8kx8 SRAMs...... Jos Dreesen --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:10:11 -0800 (PST) From: Ethan Dicks Subject: RE: PET 2001 Oddity - 6550 unobtainium! To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org --- Kevin Andres wrote: > To all, (for fear of missing someone!) > I have a PET with the feared 6550 Unobtainiums. To my experience, those are the more common "static" PETs, but from reading the list, perhaps there were more made with 2114s. > It doesn't even get to a prompt, but I suspect the screen full > of characters with some blinking and some that change upon an > [ENTER] key is telling me a video RAM went south. Perhaps. Could also be zero page. > ...I have toyed with swapping a CD6264 and or multiples into the mother > board even going so far as to quick doing an internet circuit board to > accomodate them. Time is the major constraint here. I also remember an > article or text which referenced adding perhaps a dynamic memory pack > from another machine to the expander plug, with an appropriate R & C > stobe assembly supplying what the PET didn't have. Whoa, memories!!!! Not sure what you are referring to, but I know of a modern board that plugs into the CPU socket that provides 100% of the ROM and program RAM, but I am fairly certain that it does _not_ provide for RAM at $8000. Now... given how the circuit works, it might not be too hard to remove the two video SRAMs (which should be side-by-side, not next to the program RAM at the front edge of the board), replace them with machined pin sockets (or four strips cut from .6" wide sockets if you can't locate "real" 6550 sockets), then you could either swap them out with ones from the front row to verify that it _is_ a video SRAM, or just get some perfboard from Radio Shack (or wherever you get parts these days) and hand-wire a daughter card with just about any 8-bit-wide SRAM from a 2016 or 6116 on up to a 6264 or 62256 or whatever. You could theoretically wire up a socket adapter to use a 2114 in place of a 6550, but given the reliability of the 2114s, I'd seriously consider a more modern alternative. I'm fairly certain the select lines for $8000 are not available on the edge connector, so no matter how you do it, you'll have to tap some lines from the motherboard. You _could_ build an edge-card board with the SRAM on it, remove the internal ones, and run the select lines as jumpers to your card, if you are more comfortable building something for the edge card. Don't know what to recommend for the "least time" solution, though. Check the front row SRAMs first, to see if you have a zero page problem. It's also possible that one of the TTL chips in the address selector logic is faulty and you aren't writing to the video page at all. If one SRAM were out, the machine would function, but look very odd. Sounds like either both SRAMs are faulty or you have a problem elsewhere either in the video chain or for the CPU itself. I have this Fluke 9010A tester that would help establish which one... it plugs into the CPU socket (I have a 6502 pod and a 68000 pod) and either runs as if it were just the CPU in there, or you can break it out of "emulation" mode and generate bus cycles... you can watch it test video memory and use it to strobe lines to see if it's a selector or mux/demux chip. A logic analyzer can also be helpful. I presume you have basic tools but may not have more advanced tools, yes? -ethan > I have looked at the serial number several times and always neglect to > write it down. I early on, 1975 or there > abouts, added a reset button to the front panel because of my tendency to > > lock the silly thing up with my incessant > poking around. I know I also have several of the early tomes on the PET > in > the basement, along with a couple of > Kilobaud articles reference the machine. > > Kev > kandres@epssecurity.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-request@classiccmp.org [SMTP:cctech-request@classiccmp.org] > Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 2:56 AM > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #320 - 48 msgs > > Send cctech mailing list submissions to > cctech@classiccmp.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > cctech-request@classiccmp.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > cctech-admin@classiccmp.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of cctech digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Got the second batch of -11 equipment (Bill Bradford) > 2. Re: Got the second batch of -11 equipment (Dave McGuire) > 3. Re: Update: BBC Acorn (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) > 4. Re: PET 2001 oddity (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) > 5. RE: MV3100 M90 / VAX 4100 (was: VXT X terminal question) (Antonio > Carlini) > 6. PET 2001 oddity - solved! (Adrian Vickers) > 7. RE: Musings on BabyVAX video (Antonio Carlini) > 8. RE: Hobbled NVAX (was: VXT X terminal question) (Antonio Carlini) > 9. Re: PET 2001 oddity (Adrian Vickers) > 10. Re: PET 2001 oddity (Adrian Vickers) > 11. Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? (Kenneth Donchatz) > 12. Re: Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? (Cameron Kaiser) > 13. Re: PET 2001 oddity - solved! (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) > 14. Re: PET 2001 oddity (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) > 15. Re: PET 2001 oddity (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) > 16. RE: Musings on BabyVAX video (Fred deBros) > 17. Re: Update: BBC Acorn (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) > 18. RE: Musings on BabyVAX video (Doc Shipley) > 19. Re: VXT X terminal question (Jochen Kunz) > 20. Re: VXT X terminal question (Jochen Kunz) > 21. BBC Micro - assemblers - info needed (Philip Pemberton) > 22. RE: Musings on BabyVAX video (Peter C. Wallace) > 23. Re: IBM 5322 (Sellam Ismail) > 24. SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? (David > > Holland) > 25. PET 2001 oddity (M H Stein) > 26. T&B Ansley IDC connectors (M H Stein) > 27. PerSci Model 277 Dual 8" Floppy Drives - Info Needed (M H Stein) > 28. Re: About Electronics Questions (Tony Duell) > 29. RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... (Zane H. Healy) > 30. Re: Dear Santa, I would like a Yamaha CX5M ... (Sellam Ismail) > 31. Re: Apple 1 schematics (Tothwolf) > 32. Re: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips (David Gesswein) > 33. Re: DOS 1.0 (Tothwolf) > 34. RE: Hobbled NVAX (Michael Sokolov) > 35. New classic (Gareth Knight) > 36. RE: VXT X terminal question (Michael Sokolov) > 37. MCA Fast Ethernet Cards (vance@neurotica.com) > 38. Re: SGI Discussions? (Brian Chase) > 39. RE: VXT X terminal question (Antonio Carlini) > 40. RE: Musings on BabyVAX video (r. 'bear' stricklin) > 41. Re: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? > (r. > 'bear' stricklin) > 42. RE: VXT X terminal question (Fred N. van Kempen) > 43. Apple 1 schematics (chris) > 44. RE: VXT X terminal question (Fred N. van Kempen) > 45. RE: VXT X terminal question (Michael Sokolov) > 46. Re: Apple 1 schematics (Eric Smith) > 47. Re: Got the second batch of -11 equipment (John Honniball) > 48. Re: Apple 1 schematics (John Honniball) > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:11:17 -0600 > From: Bill Bradford > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Got the second batch of -11 equipment > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Unfortunately, the actual "machine" (the guy didnt know that the MINC-11 > was > a system as well) is just an 11/23 with some RL01s. > > Pictures: > > http://www.pdp11.org/minc/01-18-03/ > > I have no idea if the RL01 disk packs are any good, but I've got one > DEC-labled RT-11 v4.0, and one hand-labeled RT-11 v4.0C "patched to > level F". The top RL01 is missing the hinged cover. > > Anybody want two RL02s (by the way, how the hell do I get the top covers > open? The "switch" on the top wont budge), and two RL01s? Pickup in > Austin, Texas.. > > Not a bad haul for a total of $30, even if I do just keep the 11/23 and > the MINC-11 and the racks. > > Bill > > -- > bill bradford > mrbill@mrbill.net > austin, texas > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:58:47 -0500 > Subject: Re: Got the second batch of -11 equipment > From: Dave McGuire > To: mrbill@mrbill.net, cctech@classiccmp.org > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Saturday, January 18, 2003, at 04:11 PM, Bill Bradford wrote: > > Anybody want two RL02s (by the way, how the hell do I get the top > > covers > > open? The "switch" on the top wont budge), and two RL01s? Pickup in > > Austin, Texas.. > > The top door latch on an RL drive is locked by a solenoid. Apply > power to the drive, make sure the "load" button is out, wait for a > "click" (the load light will come on) then you should be able to > squeeze that little slide handle and open the top cover. > > I would really like to have the RL02s but I have no idea how I'd get > them from you. :-( > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." > St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:23:31 +0000 (GMT) > From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?= > Subject: Re: Update: BBC Acorn > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > >> just checked mine again and it's 25-ANC13-1000049 > >> > >Mine is 25-ANC13-1000034, and Rob O'Donnell said his is > 25-ANC13-1000038. > > well if Rob's was the last then they obviously didn't do a very good job > of > numbering things :-) Unless Rob's was the last one released by Acorn, > but > they > all sat in storage for a while... > > > Do either of you think you have a Disc 1 for it? > > no discs at all I'm afraid :-( hence why I was asking about whther > there's > a > sensible ftp site to put them on so if a working set can be collected at > least > they can be archived somewhere (the same goes for manuals really, but > scanning > those would be a major pain I expect!) > > that used to be the problem - the hardware used to get thrown out but > discs > would lie around on shelves until someone did a bit of spring cleaning > now > and > then; they would have been trashed seperately and maybe straight into a > bin > in > the office :-( > > cheers > > Jules > (who has too many systems that don't work for lack of necessary discs :-) > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 11:37:37 GMT > From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Jan 17, 18:18, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > > > Unfortunately, the PET seems to have developed an odd fault: It won't > take > > a BASIC program, and some keywords seem to be knackered... > > > So.... I figure the BASIC ROM has become slightly corrupted, OR I've > got > a > > flakey memory chip which reads OK but doesn't write properly. The > question > > is, how to find out? > > Swap some of the RAM chips around and see if it makes a difference. If > it > does, particularly if it fixes it, swap them back -- it might just be a > bad > socket contact. Be careful with the RAM chips: if you have the type of > PET > I think you do, they're MOS Technology 6550, aka unobtainium, and unlike > any other RAM chip. > > > 1) Can the BASIC ROM be swapped with one from, say, a 3032 or 4016? In > > fact, which one IS the BASIC ROM? > > No. BASIC (and also the rest of the code, whether you call it a kernel > or > a monitor, or "stuff") is spread over several chips. And in the early > PETs, the ROMs too are MOS Technology specials, and the different > versions > of PETs had different ROMs. In fact, there was an upgrade for the > originals, because they didn't handle the IEEE routines properly, which > made it impossible to use disks properly (amongst other things). > > > 2) If it's a dodgy memory chip, what's the best way of isolating it? I > have > > an oscilloscope, but nada skill in this sort of thing. > > 3) If, as my money is on, it's the BASIC ROM, can it be replaced with > an > > EPROM - if so, there's a whole gamut of additional questions to > follow.... > > If it's a later unit with 24-pin 2332 mask ROMs, then a TMS2532 EPROM can > be used (not a 2732, nor other 2532s that don't have the TMS prefix). If > it's got 28-pin MOS Technology MPS6540 ROMs, you'd need a carrier to > shuffle some signals, at the very least, and possibly some logic to > handle > the multiple select lines. The good news, though, is that I have a > chicklet-keyboard 2001-N as well, and if necessary, I could probably do a > ROM dump for you (though IIRC it used to be on the 'net somewhere). I > wouldn't need to move more than a few hundreweight of stuff to get at it > ;-) > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 5 > From: "Antonio Carlini" > To: > Subject: RE: MV3100 M90 / VAX 4100 (was: VXT X terminal question) > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 11:48:41 -0000 > Organization: me@home > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > Wow! I thought the CQBIC was not populated on the KA50. > > I'm fairly sure the mainboards are identical (i.e. the same part > number). > I've never been inside a VAX 4000-100 so I've never had the > chance to personally check this, but the last time I saw a > parts list, the part numbers were the same. > > > Hmm. I do not suppose that this identity flag can be > > permanently stored anywhere other than in the firmware flash > > ROM. I'm sure DEC wouldn't want people to suddenly discover > > that their machine shape-shifts when the NVRAM battery is > > disconnected. So does this console test actually erase and > > reprogram a sector in the firmware flash ROM, or is the > > change only in effect until the next power cycle? > > It's stored in the flash EPROM - it rewrites it as > part of the test (and warns you not to switch off > while it is doing so). The change is permanent (until > you run the test again and switch back). > > I doubt HP care whether customers know this or not now. I > doubt they cared even back then: switching from a UV3100-90 > to a VAX 4000-100 didn't get you anything extra (unless > you paid for a new case) and it did cost you more > in licence fees. Switching the other way disabled Qbus > and DSSI, so although your licence cost you less, you > got less for it. And if you wanted the cheaper licence > you would have bought the cheaper machine anyway! > > Antonio > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:28:22 +0000 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > From: Adrian Vickers > Subject: PET 2001 oddity - solved! > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > --=======74632786======= > Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-671DF1C; charset=us-ascii; > > format=flowed > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > Woohoo! > > Turned out to be dead simple; yet another blown 2114. > > I figured the chip @ $0400 (i.e. the start of BASIC) was faulty, seeing > as > how the machine wouldn't take a single line of BASIC. So, I swapped the > appropriate bank out to another bank - and presto! BASIC worked again. > > Having done this, I then swapped *one* of the two chips (according to the > schematic, there are two chips for each $0400 block of memory - why is > this?) back to its original spot, and presto again - no BASIC. Swapped > that > chip for the one remaining spare, and presto^3! BASIC again. > > So, now I need more 2114's as an insurance policy... > > Meanwhile, I thank the list *again* for their invaluable help (Ethan, > Mike > & Pete in particular in this case). What would I do without you (except > preside over a collection of steadily failing machines)? > > -- > Cheers, Ade. > Be where it's at, B-Racing! > http://b-racing.com > > --=======74632786=======-- > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 7 > From: "Antonio Carlini" > To: > Subject: RE: Musings on BabyVAX video > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:06:37 -0000 > Organization: me@home > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > I thought so too. But what about SPX? Can it go into a > > pre-M76 VS3100? And what about VS2K SPX? (It would of course > > be very silly in practice, but I'm talking in principle.) > > SPX will go into KA42s - although I don't know for sure whether > it was ever sold and supported. It will probably plug into a > VS2K but I have no idea whether it will work (or whether anything > would run on it without more code being written). > > > So I thought that KA42 had one big CDAL-to-EDAL bridge > > upfront and the rest of the system except memory was EDAL. > > But I could be wrong, maybe different subsystems have their > > own independent connections to CDAL. > > You are probably right - I just threw in "as necessary" because > I don't have a KA42 block diagram handy (in fact, I may not have > one at all - there is not much info floating around on these > and the early UVAX 3100 systems). > > > But if KA42 indeed has one big CDAL-to-EDAL bridge upfront, > > the million dollar question becomes: why did the VS4000 M90 > > dev team toil to design their own CDAL-to-EDAL bridge (CEAC) > > if there already was one? The only plausible explanation I > > could come up with is that perhaps on KA42 the CDAL-to-EDAL > > bridge was inseparably integrated with the memory controller. > > I don't know why they rolled their own. Given that they used > or modified existing designs where possible, I assume that there > were good reasons. Perhaps the existing design was too slow or > took up too much room (this latter consideration was definitely > very important for the -90). > > > BTW, I have never found any references to a technical manual > > for VS3100 (any > > model) or for the corresponding early MV3100 models. It looks > > like one never existed. Do you have any more info? > > No - and I could never find any even while I was inside > DEC. There must have been *some* such documentation > but it was nowhere I could find. > > > Does KA43 have memory on CDAL or on RDAL? I once had one in > > my hands and when I looked on the board to see what chips it > > There's not a lot of technical info on the KA43 either! > > > Yeah, maybe that was the change. (Was that a typo or was > > EDAQL a chip converting EDAL to SPX's internal bus?) > > Typo. > > > > >http://www.research.compaq.com/wrl/DECarchives/DTJ/DTJ402/DTJ402SC.TXT > > > >But it talks about the X aspects of it and says nothing about VXT2000 > hardware. > > Yes, I've read that one and it's not the one. I was sure that there was > an article describing the VXT2000 itself, but I guess since I cannot > find it either on the web or in my docs, I must have > imagined it. Oh well. > > Antonio > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 8 > From: "Antonio Carlini" > To: > Subject: RE: Hobbled NVAX (was: VXT X terminal question) > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:11:19 -0000 > Organization: me@home > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > I assume the NVAX microcode was patched via its PCS facility > > by the boot firmware, not by making a different NVAX die with > > different microcode I hope, right? If so the abomination is > > I assume so too. > > > to be reversed by reflashing the boot ROM with non-hobbled > > firmware (stolen from a friend with a non-hobbled machine). > > They had flash ROMs like all other NVAXen, right? > > I doubt that non-hobbled firmware exists. I doubt you > could just use the UV3100-96 firmware upgrade on a > UV3100-85 and have it work. In fact, I guess the firmware > is the same but it looks at the machine's hardware (e.g. > size and config of backup cache or something like that) > to determine what it is running on, and disables the VIC > if it thinks the machine is a UV3100-85. > > The easiest thing to do would be to try reenabling the VIC. > If that is not enough, you would have to find the bit of code > that disables the VIC and NOP it out. I doubt that the code > was protected too much: it would have been way beyond most > customers' ability to alter it. > > Antonio > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 9 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:49:24 +0000 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > From: Adrian Vickers > Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > --=======54493991======= > Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-671DF1C; charset=us-ascii; > > format=flowed > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > At 06:41 18/01/2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > >--- Adrian Vickers wrote: > > > I dug the 2001 out of the cupboard the other day... > > > >Can you give more information about *which* 2001 you have? There > >are at least two major motherboard revisions for the static-RAM PETs. > >They use different ROMs and RAMs. > > OK, I can but try.... > > According to the sticker on the back, this is a 2001-8BS. The motherboard > layout appears to be the same as the one pictured on www.zimmers.net on > the > 4k/8k layout. I've taken some photos of my motherboard, which can now be > found here: > > http://helmies.org.uk/images/cbm2001/mobo_front.jpg > http://helmies.org.uk/images/cbm2001/mobo_back.jpg > http://helmies.org.uk/images/cbm2001/mobo_side.jpg > > NOTE: Each picture is approx 449K = long download over a modem! > > >Also, as I have one, there are also models of 2001 that have _dynamic_ > >RAMs. My 2001-N has 32K worth of 4116 chips (from the factory) and a > >full-sized graphic keyboard. If it were for sale in Europe, it would > >most likely been labelled a 3032, for comparison, but here in the > States, > >it says "2001" on the front. > > > >I bring it up because I _think_ you are talking about the original > >chicklet-keyboard SRAM PET, but you didn't come right out and say so. > > Apologies, I didn't; I keep forgetting that the 2001 went through more > development than perhaps any of the other PETs. Yes, it is a chicklet > keyboard version, with static RAM (2114's) and original 28-pin MOS ROMs. > > > > > > Unfortunately, the PET seems to have developed an odd fault: It won't > > > take a BASIC program, and some keywords seem to be knackered... > >. > >. > >. > > > So.... I figure the BASIC ROM has become slightly corrupted, OR I've > got > > > a flakey memory chip... > > > > > > 1) Can the BASIC ROM be swapped with one from, say, a 3032 or 4016? > > > >Most likely not. If your 2001 has 2114 SRAMs, perhaps. There are > >upgrade ROMs (BASIC 2.0, anyway) _for_ the 2001 > > Personally, I'd rather keep this one as original as possible, i.e. keep > the > original (buggy) ROMs. However, if it means keeping it working, then I'm > prepared to substitute the MOS ROMs with a board/set of boards containing > more modern EPROMs wired appropriately containing the original images. > Not > that I've got a clue how to go about doing that, mind... > > > > > In fact, which one IS the BASIC ROM? > > > >BASIC lives in several ROMs, the Kernel lives in several ROMs. BASICs > >prior to 4.0 occupied $C000-$DFFF, and the Kernel occupied $E000-$FFFF, > >minus the PIAs and VIAs, etc., at $E800. BASIC 4.0 starts at $B000 > >to add room for diskette commands. > > > >In my PET, $9000, $A000 and $B000 are filled with user-supplied firmware > >(better machine-language monitor, BASIC extensions and a tape speeder). > >These sorts of things, plus ROMs for word processors and other > applications > >were somewhat typical amongst serious PET users. Dunno if yours has > >anything like that, but if you find ROMs where you expect none to be, > >that's probably why. > > Well, there are no unpolulated sockets, so perhaps it's a fair bet that > there's some extra stuff in there. Goodness knows what, though, all the > ROMs are MOS 6540's. > > > > 2) If it's a dodgy memory chip, what's the best way of isolating it? > I > > > have an oscilloscope, but nada skill in this sort of thing. > > > >The typical way of testing RAMs in a C= service center was to rotate > >a pair of them from bank to bank and see if the symptoms shift. It > >was especially handy for detecting zero page problems. > > Figures :( I've had to do this once already to locate a broken 2114 > (when > I got the machine, it claimed only 1600 bytes of memory were free). > Luckily, I have one more spare 2114 (I got two from someone on this list, > I > forget who [for which I apologise] and thank them (again) profusely, as > if > it is a broken 2114, there's a chance the second spare might be > essential). > > Anyway, if it *is* a failing RAM chip, my guess is it's the one which > sits > near the bottom of BASIC memory, since the first line number causes a > crash. Does anyone have a map showing the correlation between memory > addresses & specific chips? > > If it's on the schematics, I'll be looking there next (so no need to > answer > that question). > > > > > Ta for that, all good info! > > Thus, the order of the day is: > > 1) Try to determine which 2114 chip might have gone bad, either by > sequenced swapping or by trying to be clever with the schematics. > > 2) If that doesn't fix it, re-seat all ROMs. > > 3) If that doesn't fix it, go to plan C - which doesn't exist yet... > > Also, I know this has been asked & answered before, but what's the best > way > of cleaning the board? It has more dust on it than I am properly > comfortable with, and besides it looks horrible. > > I'm guessing that *ideally* it should be washed in distilled water with a > very soft brush, then left in a warm place to dry thoroughly. OTOH, maybe > alcohol would be a better idea? I have some disc head cleaning alcohol > which would suffice - recommendations please! > > > >Good luck, > > Thanks - I'm going to need that (in place of specific skills :) > > > >P.S. - if you don't know about http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/ it's a > >great site with schematics and firmware. > > I already knew of it, but had forgotten how useful it might be. Will > check > that out next. Ta! > > > -- > Cheers, Ade. > Be where it's at, B-Racing! > http://b-racing.com > > --=======54493991=======-- > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 10 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:55:43 +0000 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > From: Adrian Vickers > Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > --=======37E27F29======= > Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-671DF1C; charset=us-ascii; > > format=flowed > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > At 11:37 18/01/2003, you wrote: > > >On Jan 17, 18:18, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > > > > > Unfortunately, the PET seems to have developed an odd fault: It won't > >take > > > a BASIC program, and some keywords seem to be knackered... > > > > > So.... I figure the BASIC ROM has become slightly corrupted, OR I've > got > >a > > > flakey memory chip which reads OK but doesn't write properly. The > >question > > > is, how to find out? > > > >Swap some of the RAM chips around and see if it makes a difference. If > it > >does, particularly if it fixes it, swap them back -- it might just be a > bad > >socket contact. Be careful with the RAM chips: if you have the type of > PET > >I think you do, they're MOS Technology 6550, aka unobtainium, and unlike > >any other RAM chip. > > Hi Pete, > > It's not *quite* as bad as all that, it uses 2114's. Although they're not > made of unobtainum, they ARE made of "rareium" (or R@RE!ium on eBay - > probably the *WOW* *L@@K* isotope, knowing my luck :). > > > > 1) Can the BASIC ROM be swapped with one from, say, a 3032 or 4016? > In > > > fact, which one IS the BASIC ROM? > > > >No. BASIC (and also the rest of the code, whether you call it a kernel > or > >a monitor, or "stuff") is spread over several chips. > > Damn, I just *knew* it wouldn't be that easy. > > > And in the early > >PETs, the ROMs too are MOS Technology specials, and the different > versions > >of PETs had different ROMs. > > AFAICT, these are version 1 ROMs. Every socket is filled, and they're all > MOS6540s. > > >If it's got 28-pin MOS Technology MPS6540 ROMs, you'd need a carrier to > >shuffle some signals, at the very least, and possibly some logic to > handle > >the multiple select lines. > > Harrumph. Guess which one it has... > > Still, I've no fear of making carriers, etc. - albeit time constraints & > lack of equipment will make it tough right now - at least until I can get > my MicroMAT going. > > >The good news, though, is that I have a > >chicklet-keyboard 2001-N as well, and if necessary, I could probably do > a > >ROM dump for you (though IIRC it used to be on the 'net somewhere). I > >wouldn't need to move more than a few hundreweight of stuff to get at it > >;-) > > That might be cool (and *snap* about the tons of stuff, although having > seen your little collection I think you do have rather more to shift > about > than me!). However, let me try out the RAM swapping & chip re-seating > first, and if that doesn't fix it, then we'll look into EPROMs & > suchlike. > > -- > Cheers, Ade. > Be where it's at, B-Racing! > http://b-racing.com > > --=======37E27F29=======-- > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 11 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 05:40:46 -0800 (PST) > From: Kenneth Donchatz > Subject: Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > --0-1341891654-1042897246=:19979 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > I have a 13 year old apple macintosh that works like a dream. It's > loaded > with programs, and this great little machine got me through law school > and > helped me launch my career. When my employer switched over to a compaq > system, I could no longer use this machine to work on projects at home > and > was forced to pick up an etower package instead. For the last 5 years, > it's sat in my basement waiting. Everything works perfectly, including > the > printer, and all of the parts are original. Any tips on where I might > take > this machine so that it can be used? It's a shame to let it sit here and > rot. > > Ken Donchatz > > kendonchatz@yahoo.com > > Columbus, Ohio > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now > --0-1341891654-1042897246=:19979 > Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii > >

I have a 13 year old apple macintosh that works like a dream.  > It's > loaded with programs, and this great little machine got me through law > school and helped me launch my career.  When my employer switched > over > to a compaq system, I could no longer use this machine to work on > projects > at home and was forced to pick up an etower package instead.  For > the > last 5 years, it's sat in my basement waiting.  Everything works > perfectly, including the printer, and all of the parts are > original.  > Any tips on where I might take this machine so that it can be used? It's > a > shame to let it sit here and rot.

>

Ken Donchatz

>

kendonchatz@yahoo.com

>

Columbus, Ohio


Do you Yahoo!?
> href="http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com">Yahoo! > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. href="http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com">Sign > up > now > --0-1341891654-1042897246=:19979-- > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 12 > From: Cameron Kaiser > Subject: Re: Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 06:09:47 -0800 (PST) > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > I have a 13 year old apple macintosh that works like a dream. > > Which model? > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: > http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * > ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- Of course I run NetBSD. --------------------------------------------- > > ------- > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 13 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:34:45 GMT > From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity - solved! > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Jan 18, 13:28, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > > Turned out to be dead simple; yet another blown 2114. > > > > I figured the chip @ $0400 (i.e. the start of BASIC) was faulty, seeing > as > > how the machine wouldn't take a single line of BASIC. So, I swapped the > > appropriate bank out to another bank - and presto! BASIC worked again. > > Good! > > > Having done this, I then swapped *one* of the two chips (according to > the > > schematic, there are two chips for each $0400 block of memory - why is > > this?) > > A 2114 is 1K x 4 bits wide, so they're used in pairs to make bytes. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 14 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:11:59 GMT > From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Hi, Ade. > > On Jan 18, 12:55, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > > It's not *quite* as bad as all that, it uses 2114's. Although they're > not > > made of unobtainum, they ARE made of "rareium" (or R@RE!ium on eBay - > > probably the *WOW* *L@@K* isotope, knowing my luck :). > > Good! If it *is* a RAM fault, and you can't find one at a reasonable > price, let me know. I think I still have a small number spare. > > > AFAICT, these are version 1 ROMs. Every socket is filled, and they're > all > > MOS6540s. > > Drat. Let's hope it's not a ROM fault. Sadly, my copy of "The PET > Revealed" with its mostly-legible (!) circuit diagrams, shows the later > board with 2332s. But I do have a copy of the MPS6540 pinout somewhere. > > > Harrumph. Guess which one it has... > > > > Still, I've no fear of making carriers, etc. - albeit time constraints > & > > lack of equipment will make it tough right now - at least until I can > get > > my MicroMAT going. > > > > >The good news, though, is that I have a > > >chicklet-keyboard 2001-N as well, and if necessary, I could probably > do > a > > >ROM dump for you (though IIRC it used to be on the 'net somewhere). I > > >wouldn't need to move more than a few hundreweight of stuff to get at > it > > >;-) > > > > That might be cool (and *snap* about the tons of stuff, although having > > seen your little collection I think you do have rather more to shift > about > > than me!). However, let me try out the RAM swapping & chip re-seating > > first, and if that doesn't fix it, then we'll look into EPROMs & > suchlike. > > OK. Give me shout if you want me to start burrowing. Or come and pay a > visit... > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 15 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:29:23 GMT > From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Jan 18, 12:49, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > At 06:41 18/01/2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > >I bring it up because I _think_ you are talking about the original > > >chicklet-keyboard SRAM PET, but you didn't come right out and say so. > > > > Apologies, I didn't; I keep forgetting that the 2001 went through more > > development than perhaps any of the other PETs. Yes, it is a chicklet > > keyboard version, with static RAM (2114's) and original 28-pin MOS > ROMs. > > > Well, there are no unpolulated sockets, so perhaps it's a fair bet that > > there's some extra stuff in there. Goodness knows what, though, all the > > ROMs are MOS 6540's. > > Then there's no extras. The MOS Technology 6540 ROMs are half the > capacity > of the 2332s in later boards, so there are seven of them in a standard > PET > and no spare sockets. > > > Figures :( I've had to do this once already to locate a broken 2114 > (when > > I got the machine, it claimed only 1600 bytes of memory were free). > > Luckily, I have one more spare 2114 (I got two from someone on this > list, > I > > forget who [for which I apologise] and thank them (again) profusely, as > if > > it is a broken 2114, there's a chance the second spare might be > essential). > > I think it was me (and I think you already said thankyou :-)) > > > Also, I know this has been asked & answered before, but what's the best > way > > of cleaning the board? It has more dust on it than I am properly > > comfortable with, and besides it looks horrible. > > > > I'm guessing that *ideally* it should be washed in distilled water with > a > > very soft brush, then left in a warm place to dry thoroughly. OTOH, > maybe > > alcohol would be a better idea? I have some disc head cleaning alcohol > > which would suffice - recommendations please! > > Start by vacuuming it with a powerful vacuum and a soft, small, > paintbrush > (about 1/2" - 1") to help disldge the dirt. You might not need to wash > it > after that. It's not too important for a board like this, but the air > rushing through a plastic vacuum nozzle can generate a surprising amount > of > static, so ideally the nozzle should be conductive, and grounded. > > If you do wash it, use some detergent, do not get it too hot, rinse with > distilled water and a *very small* amount of wetting agent (to help the > water drain). Blowing off the excess with low-pressure compressed air > and/or rinsing in IPA or meths (which mix with water and helps remove it) > may also be a good idea. Do make sure you get all the water out of > places > like IC sockets, switches, and connectors, as residues may eventually > lead > to corrosion. > > In extreme cases, or where I've had a lot of boards to clean, I've used > the > dishwasher -- but do not let the dishwasher do the normal drying cycle as > it's too hot for safety. Some dishwashers seem to use very hot water, > too, > and some types of PCB and some types of plastic don't like that. Don't > use > a dishwasher on boards that have non-sealed relays, transformers, paper > labels, etc. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 16 > From: "Fred deBros" > To: > Subject: RE: Musings on BabyVAX video > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:34:21 -0500 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > I'm pretty sure that a VS3100-76 with no graphics board *will* come up > using onboard monochrome (use the green signal). > I don't think I've ever actually used one this way, but I do > know that the GPX and SPX options came with a little stick-on > panel that said either "GPX" or "SPX" in about the right size > and font to stick right after the "VAXstation 3100 M76" nameplate. > > Mine does and it is just a matter on which pin you pick it up in the > back of the box! I'd have to go to my office to ck it again. > > Fred > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 17 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:42:37 GMT > From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Update: BBC Acorn > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Jan 18, 10:23, Jules Richardson wrote: > > > > Do either of you think you have a Disc 1 for it? > > > > no discs at all I'm afraid :-( hence why I was asking about whther > there's a > > sensible ftp site to put them on so if a working set can be collected > at > least > > they can be archived somewhere (the same goes for manuals really, but > scanning > > those would be a major pain I expect!) > > Well, someone else has offered to copy Disc 1 for me. I've also found a > few other people who have ARM Evaluation Systems, so once I get a good > Disc > 1, I'll put the set of six on my website (and if anyone from any of the > Beeb sites wants to make a copy, that's fine by me). Any suggestions as > to > format to use for the images? > > I've also just been told that the production run of ARM (not ARM2) chips > was 2000. I know some were used in-house for other types of development > system (like the A500) and more were used for Springboard (an ISA card, > the > PC equivalent of the ARM Development System), so 50 or 100 seem likely > numbers for the quantity of ARM Development Kits made to fit Beebs. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 18 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:09:30 -0600 (CST) > From: Doc Shipley > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Musings on BabyVAX video > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > > I thought so too. But what about SPX? Can it go into a > > > pre-M76 VS3100? And what about VS2K SPX? (It would of course > > > be very silly in practice, but I'm talking in principle.) > > > > SPX will go into KA42s - although I don't know for sure whether > > it was ever sold and supported. It will probably plug into a > > VS2K but I have no idea whether it will work (or whether anything > > would run on it without more code being written). > > I'll look when I get home (next month), but I'm pretty sure one of my > VS3100 m38 machines was labelled SPX from the factory. > > Doc > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 19 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:21:03 +0100 > From: Jochen Kunz > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: VXT X terminal question > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Fri, Jan 17, 2003 at 11:38:58PM -0000, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > Obviously you have to have a Qbus extension cable and some way > > of connecting it - the easiest way is a VAX 4000-1xx cab :-) > Well, the enclosure is the same. It is only a set of additional > connectors on the back an internal cabling. At least I interpreted > pictures of a VAX4k105 this way. But all I need is the pinout. > Building some cables is no problem and I have a QBus backplane > from a dead and rotten BA23. > > > > Sad that I have not the QBus cabling for my MV3100m95. A 83 > > > MHz NVAX (32 VUPs?) desktop VAX wirh QBus would be nice. > > It would indeed. The VAX 4000-1xx range is something that > > I only rarely got to play on. But there are plenty of > > other Qbus boxes around. > I have a MV II, MV III, MV3900, MV4k200, VAX4k300, VAX4k400 > and a PDP11-73. Enough QBus boxen to play. OK. I miss a KA640 > based machine. But none of them brings that power in that small > footprint and is easy to interface to lots of storage, i.e. > SCSI. > -- > > > > tschu?, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 20 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:29:24 +0100 > From: Jochen Kunz > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: VXT X terminal question > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Sat, Jan 18, 2003 at 10:50:58AM +0100, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > I have the Ultrix V4.50 source tree [no comment] and will be porting it > > to > > the M76, *and* (which is my target) my beloved 4000-700A. > Someone on the PUPS / TUHS list has ported 4.3BSD-Tahoe and / or > 4.3BSD-Reno to the VAX4000-7xx. AFAIK he had some porblems with > interrupts at autoconfig time, but got it running. > -- > > > > tschu?, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 21 > From: "Philip Pemberton" > To: > Subject: BBC Micro - assemblers - info needed > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:16:39 -0000 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Hi all, > I've just downloaded three assemblers from the ROM archive at > http://bbc.nvg.org . Catch is, none of them include manuals. I've got > copies > of: > VASM65 v2.0E by Vida Rebus > ASM 1.10 by SYSTEM (claims to be the "ASM 6502 Macro assembler > V1.10", > "Copyright (C) 1984 SYSTEM"). Contains text strings like "Press play", so > may be a tape->ROM conversion. > ROMAS 3.02 by TBK Associates (full copyright string = "ROMAS 3.02 > (C)1985 TBK Associates - S.C." > > Has anyone here got any documentation for these assemblers? I'd like > to > get at least one of them to assemble *something*. Perhaps a "Hello World" > program? > Also, Vasm outputs Intel Hex files from what I can gather - does > anyone > here have an Intel Hex -> Binary converter for the BBC Micro? > Finally, does anyone know how some discs were formatted so they were > compatible with 40-track and 80-track disc drives? > > Thanks. > -- > Phil. > philpem@dsl.pipex.com > http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 22 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:07:36 -0800 (PST) > From: "Peter C. Wallace" > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Musings on BabyVAX video > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > > I thought so too. But what about SPX? Can it go into a > > > pre-M76 VS3100? And what about VS2K SPX? (It would of course > > > be very silly in practice, but I'm talking in principle.) > > > > SPX will go into KA42s - although I don't know for sure whether > > it was ever sold and supported. It will probably plug into a > > VS2K but I have no idea whether it will work (or whether anything > > would run on it without more code being written). > > > I have a few VT1300's with SPX badges and SPX cards inside, so at least > the > Xterm verison of the KA42/SPX seems to have been supported... > > > Peter Wallace > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 23 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:23:06 -0800 (PST) > From: Sellam Ismail > To: > Subject: Re: IBM 5322 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > > The System 23 I briefly worked on (as in 'got inside') had a DE9 > > connector for the printer IIRC. It was a _current loop_ serial port, > and > > of course the character set is EBCDIC (but as you say, that's a minor > > problem). > > I was wondering what that connector was. Now I know :) > > > I think (based on the current loop on the PC Async card) that IBM's > > convention was that transmiters were active and non-isolated, receivers > > were passive and opto-isolated, but do check this before hooking > > anything up. > > Cool, after the punch card project I actually know what you're talking > about ;) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com > * > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 24 > Subject: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? > From: David Holland > To: Classic Computer Talk > Date: 18 Jan 2003 13:07:13 -0500 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Wot about SGI Crimson's? (Or in my case, a Power Series frame, w/ > Crimson boards in it) Or are they too new (and LARGE :-) ) for the > list? > > (Now for the possibly Off List questions of my post) > > I'd like to get hold of a Reality Engine for it as mine (alas) only has > a VGXT boardset. Anyone know where I could find one? > > I'd also be interested if anyone has interfaced a Sun Type 5 mouse to > it, as they look like they use the same protocol, just one is +5v logic, > the other is RS232? (Maxim's MAX232's sound vaguely useful, but they're > hard to find around here in 1sie 2sie counts) > > (The optical mouse I have for it is in too bad a shape to be really > usable anymore - the felts shot, and it sticks to the metal plate/mouse > pad too much for my tastes.) > > The whole thing that torque's me off the worst about it is.. its 3x's > bigger than my PC, and its 3x's quieter... :) > > Anyways, If I'm off list focus, someone point it out to me, and I'll > hush, and wait for the Apple II stuff to respond too.. :-) > > David > > On Fri, 2003-01-17 at 23:19, Brian Chase wrote: > > On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > > > It's not just on a system like that. Earlier this week I got my > first > SGI > > > system, a nice little O2. It's about the crappiest of the O2's, but > it's > > > still a *very* nice UNIX workstation. I thought that it was doing OK > > at > > > surfing until yesterday when I wanted to check something on gamespot, > > it > > > absolutly crawled to a halt trying to render the pages (well the > browser > > > did, the rest of the system was nice and responsive). I swear it > took > close > > > to 10 minutes to get to the third page (the one that had the data I > was > > > curious about). > > > > > > I think I'll now run the browser on my Linux box and retarget it to > the > > > SGI's desktop (at least until I get an Octane). > > > > I'll wait to get an Onyx. Actually, the Origin 2000s are quite lovely, > > too. They're still really off topic for this list. > > > > -brian. > > > > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 25 > From: M H Stein > To: "'ClassicComputers'" > Subject: PET 2001 oddity > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:19:36 -0500 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Ethan: thanks for the info; I've never seen a > dynamic RAM 2001N, although a friend of mine > home-brewed a static > dynamic conversion. > 4032s of course, but I take it you're talking > about a real small-B/W-screen 2001. > > I sometimes toy with the idea of building > a PET using modern chips; shouldn't be too > big a deal (very low on my to-do list though). > > Adrian: Was working on adding my .02 to the > discussion, but read on and saw that you're > in business. If you can't find any locally, > I've got several tubes of 2114s here in frosty > Canada. And they are used in pairs because > they're only 4 bits wide (x 1K). > > One of my PETs, with an MTU graphics board, > is dead as well; this discussion just might > motivate me to have a look at it. > > Good luck! > > mike > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 26 > From: M H Stein > To: "'ClassicComputers'" > Subject: T&B Ansley IDC connectors > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:25:29 -0500 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > ---------------Original Message--------------- > Subject: T&B Ansley IDC connectors > From: "Jeffrey H. Ingber" > Date: 17 Jan 2003 19:17:20 -0500 > > Does anyone know where I can aquire the T&B ansley "light blue" IDC > ribbon cable connectors that were used by MITS? > > Googling reveals that Tyco purchased this line of connectors in 2001, > but I can't find any mention of T&B Ansley on their web site. > > Thanks, > Jeff > ------------------------------------------------------- > Used to use a lot of these & have a few left; Exactly which ones are > you looking for? > > mike > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 27 > From: M H Stein > To: "'ClassicComputers'" > Subject: PerSci Model 277 Dual 8" Floppy Drives - Info Needed > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:29:05 -0500 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > ---------------------Original Message------------------------- > From: "Tim Myers" > To: > Subject: PerSci Model 277 Dual 8" Floppy Drives - Info Needed > > Does anyone have any info on these drives? I have some in a CP/M system > (Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1), and they seem completely dead. They have an > electric load mechanism, but when I insert a disk, nothing happens. > Popped the case and can't see anything obviously out of place. > > Tim. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Cromemco used these in early models of the System 3; not exactly the most > reliable. Sorry to say, I scrapped several of them a year ago and, > although > I've > got manuals for most Cromemco stuff I don't think I've got any docs on > these. > > But I'll have a look and let you know if I find anything. Meanwhile, > there > are > probably several people on this list who have them and could perhaps at > least compare notes with ya. They are getting power? > > Good luck, > > mike > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 28 > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Subject: Re: About Electronics Questions > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:32:58 +0000 (GMT) > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > The biggest thing however for anybody doing repair > > is get all the doc's you can even before you start > > repairing something.A schematic is a very useful > > Agreed (why do you think I have a few _thousand_ scheamtics/repair > manuals...). However, the schematic is not always available (maybe not > anywhere any more), so it can be useful to be able to make guesses and > 'find your way aobut' without a schematic. Alas this comes with (a lot > of) practice... > > > PS Caps are the first thing to go in any equiment > > unless you let the magic smoke out first. > > Hmmm.. Not always. I've had a number of HP98x0 machines on the bench in > the last few months. I've had to change _one_ electrolytic capacitor and > about 20 TTL chipes (particularly 74Hxx parts). And we all know that 2114 > RAM chips are often dead... > > -tony > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 29 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:13:48 -0800 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > From: "Zane H. Healy" > Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > >Didn't see one at a fiver. Saw > >http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1484&item=23017 > >94356 > >which is claimed to be a UV3100-95. Assuming it is, then it's > >a darned fast VAX (in VAX terms) and really well worth having. > > That's one nice VAX, I'm glad it's on the other side of the pond :^) > > >The DLT looks more like a TZ30 to me (still nice to have) and > > A good indication that it's a TZ30 is that it's a half-height drive. The > TZ30 is the only half-height drive that uses Compact-Tapes. > > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 30 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:26:42 -0800 (PST) > From: Sellam Ismail > To: > Subject: Re: Dear Santa, I would like a Yamaha CX5M ... > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > Anyone ever seen someone out there trying to get rid of a Yamaha CX5M? > It's > > about the only MSX machine I have significant curiosity about due to > its > > specialised music abilities. > > Yes, and I helped them get rid of it by taking it away for them ;) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com > * > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 31 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:38:05 -0600 (CST) > From: Tothwolf > To: Classic Computer > Subject: Re: Apple 1 schematics > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, chris wrote: > > > In reading my copy of Collectible Microcomputers (yes yes, you all get > > it by now, I like the book... ok, I'll stop refering to it after > > this)... I noticed in the Apple Computer section a mention of how > > Apple's first customers were the folks that got schematics for the > Apple > > 1 when it was first shown at Home Brew. > > > > Although I already knew that they alledgedly gave out schematics... I > > began to wonder A: did they really (probably) and B: do any copies > exist > > anywhere? > > > > I thought it might be a fun project to try an build an Apple 1 from the > > schematics... just as the first users probably did. So, does anyone > know > > if they are available, or does anyone have a copy and might want to > send > > me a set? Or are copies just as elusive as the Apple 1 itself and there > > is no shot in ever getting them. > > Ok, I guess its time I post on the list about this... > > I've been thinking about this very project for sometime. The main > problems > that I came up with are: > 1. certain parts are difficult to find > 2. ROM source and/or binary image availability > 3. re-creating the pc boards > > The first problem should be possible to overcome either by finding a > stock > of surplus parts, or should significant demand exist, having the parts > made by a company that specializes in fabricating out of production > parts. > I've actually looked into the later a couple times in the past, and the > prices didn't seem to be out of line. I've even wondered if it would be > possible to get a copy of the mask from Intel for say the i8008 or i4004 > and have reproductions made. > > The second and third problems may be slightly more difficult to overcome. > One option would be to find an Apple 1, dump the ROMs, carefully unsolder > all the parts and scan each side of the cleaned pc boards. The scanned > images can then be used to create gerber files. I personally don't have > the funds to go out and buy an Apple 1, and I don't know of anyone who > would give up one just for it to be taken to bits. > > Another option for the second and third problems is to contact Woz and > see > if he would be willing to help. I have so far restrained myself from > emailing him, since I know he gets tons and tons of emails, including > people asking him if he has an Apple 1 he could give them, etc. I'd > imagine Woz would very much like to see the Apple 1 preserved, but it > would probably take him quite a bit of time to find all the docs and info > that we'd need. > > -Toth > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 32 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:41:14 -0500 > From: David Gesswein > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips > > Fairchild 9311 (4 bit -> 16 line decoder?) > > 1 of 16 decoder > > 1 : 0 > 2 : 1 > 3 : 2 > 4 : 3 > 5 : 4 > 6 : 5 > 7 : 6 > 8 : 7 > 9 : 8 > 10 : 9 > 11 : 10 > 12 : Gnd > 13 : 11 > 14 : 12 > 15 : 13 > 16 : 14 > 17 : 15 > 18 : E1 > 19 : E2 > 20 : A3 > 21 : A2 > 22 : A1 > 23 : A0 > 24 : Vcc > > E1 and E2 both low to enable output. Outputs 0-15 are active low > > Fairchild 93L14 (latch?) > Probably same as NSC > http://www.national.com/ds/93/93L14.pdf > > Signetics 8273 (10 bit serial-in, parallel out shift register) > > 1 : Q6 > 2 : Q7 > 3 : Q8 > 4 : Q9 > 5 : Q10 > 6 : ClK1/ > 7 : CLK2 > 8 : Gnd > 9 : Clr/ > 10 : Serial In > 11 : Q1 > 12 : Q2 > 13 : Q3 > 14 : Q4 > 15 : Q5 > 16 : Vcc > > Clk2 low and clk1 works > clk1 high and clk2 works > clk1 feeds an inverter then is ored with clk2 and result inverted to > clock the flip flops. > > David Gesswein > http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights. > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 33 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:53:42 -0600 (CST) > From: Tothwolf > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: DOS 1.0 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Live Wire wrote: > > > > I do also memember Wordstar and it's arcane command sequences. Those > > > commands persisted though, through a number of ordinary text editors > > > for programmers & such. > > > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/joe-editor/ > > > > This is as close to wordstar and the WS CTRL-K-x command set I have > > found. I used to use wordstar on a tiny portable computer with a 4 line > > display to write asm for the amiga 500 and then dump it via the built > in > > modem. Joe is my favorite editor today, though I find myself living in > > vi for the most part... > > I use 'joe' constantly myself. It's my day to day editor for editing > source code. I have used vi and vim somewhat, but I've honestly not yet > taken the time to learn vi as well as I should. I'm sure I must be > missing > out by not using vi (well, thats what other software developers tell me), > but joe is fast and does what I need it to. > > Somewhere, I have a complete Wordstar set for the Apple II. IIRC, I > pulled > it and some other complete Apple II software from a trash pile back in > 1998 or so. > > -Toth > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 34 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 03 11:13:01 PST > From: msokolov@ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Hobbled NVAX > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > I doubt that non-hobbled firmware exists. I doubt you > > could just use the UV3100-96 firmware upgrade on a > > UV3100-85 and have it work. In fact, I guess the firmware > > is the same but it looks at the machine's hardware (e.g. > > size and config of backup cache or something like that) > > to determine what it is running on, and disables the VIC > > if it thinks the machine is a UV3100-85. > > Umm, I don't think so. It looks like the firmware is the only difference > between M85 and the equivalent M9x model and the hardware is the same. In > > this > case flashing M9x firmware would obviously give you the M9x model. But > even > if > the M85 board was really different in B-cache or something from all M9x > models, > I doubt that the firmware could detect this by "looking at the hardware". > > AFAIK > it's the firmware that has to tell the chips how the board is configured, > > not > the other way around. > > If indeed the hobbled and non-hobbled firmware are the same code, what it > > looks > at to make the decision is most probably a flag in the second longword of > > the > ROM. > > > The easiest thing to do would be to try reenabling the VIC. > > If that is not enough, you would have to find the bit of code > > that disables the VIC and NOP it out. > > Well, if it munges the microcode I would go for option 2 in any case. > > BTW, do you know for sure that it really munges the microcode and not > just > disables the VIC in the same way normal caches from CVAX onward can be > enabled > and disabled as you like? > > MS > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 35 > From: "Gareth Knight" > To: > Subject: New classic > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:20:36 -0000 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > http://c64upgra.de/c-one/s_pictures.htm > First pictures of the CommodoreOne pre-production board are now online: > ""the pictures section has been extended by 11 pictures of the > pre-production board. Basic testing has already been done, all chips are > responding positively to diagnostic access. A 100% test procedure will be > developed this weekend." > -- > Gareth Knight > Amiga Interactive Guide | Team *AMIGA* member > http://amiga.emugaming.com | http://www.amigau.com/aig/index.html > > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 36 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 03 11:28:06 PST > From: msokolov@ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: VXT X terminal question > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > Ugh. Make that V4.20, obviously. Development is done on my V4.5 box.. > > > > Shitty thing is, that I probably will also have to run a 4.2 system as > > a second-step system for bootstrapping, and I dont have a 4.2/vax tk50 > > or cd set. > > Why can't you compile and use the V4.20 kernel on your V4.50 system? > > BTW, have you tried booting VXT on different VS3100s? I would really like > > to > use a KA43 for my own VXT if possible, but I need to know if it is or > not. > > MS > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 37 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:23:31 -0500 (EST) > From: vance@neurotica.com > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org, > Subject: MCA Fast Ethernet Cards > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > Would the people who wanted the PS/2 100Mbps ethernet cards send me an > email? I have access to them now and can ship soon. > > Peace... Sridhar > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 38 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:32:12 -0800 (PDT) > From: Brian Chase > To: Classic Computer Talk > Subject: Re: SGI Discussions? > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On 18 Jan 2003, David Holland wrote: > > > Wot about SGI Crimson's? (Or in my case, a Power Series frame, w/ > > Crimson boards in it) Or are they too new (and LARGE :-) ) for the > > list? > > Pfft! You call that large!? There are plenty of folks on this list > who'd mock the relatively dainty size of the SGI Power Series frames. > There are people on the list with IBM mainframes, PDP-10s, big VAXen, > and a few Crays. > > > (Now for the possibly Off List questions of my post) > > > > I'd like to get hold of a Reality Engine for it as mine (alas) only has > > a VGXT boardset. Anyone know where I could find one? > > > > I'd also be interested if anyone has interfaced a Sun Type 5 mouse to > > it, as they look like they use the same protocol, just one is +5v > logic, > > the other is RS232? (Maxim's MAX232's sound vaguely useful, but > they're > > hard to find around here in 1sie 2sie counts) > > > > (The optical mouse I have for it is in too bad a shape to be really > > usable anymore - the felts shot, and it sticks to the metal plate/mouse > > pad too much for my tastes.) > > I'll see if we have any spare older mice. I know at least with the Indy > and Indigo2s onward they all used regular PS/2 mice. I'm not sure about > the Onyx systems, or the gear predating the mid-1990s time frame. My > introduction to SGI equipment came around 1994 or so. > > About a year ago my employer returned several pallets worth of Indigo2s > and Indys (~80-100 systems) to SGI for trade ins on Octane2s. It took > about 6 months for SGI to even bother to come and pick them up. I've a > feeling they all ended up being dumpstered once they got back to SGI. > Saving them was out of the question as a list of serial numbers had been > given to SGI; because they were trade ins, they actually had to be > traded in. It's too bad. > > On another note, perhaps more related to the list, the new building that > the Computer History Museum is moving into is actually the old SGI > headquarters on Shoreline Dr. in Mountain View. It's a lovely building; > I can't wait until they get things prettied up and moved into the new > location. > > -brian. > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 39 > From: "Antonio Carlini" > To: > Subject: RE: VXT X terminal question > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 20:51:41 -0000 > Organization: me@home > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > Well, the enclosure is the same. It is only a set of additional > > connectors on the back an internal cabling. At least I interpreted > > pictures of a VAX4k105 this way. But all I need is the pinout. > > Building some cables is no problem and I have a QBus backplane > > from a dead and rotten BA23. > > I have a UV3100-90 and I've been close to a VAX 4000-100 (it > just wasn't mine). The VAX 4000-100 enclosure has a distinctive > sloping part at the back which houses the Qbus (and DSSI?) > connectors. I didn't get to look closely enough to see whether > this housing is an add-on to the UV3100-90 enclosure or the whole > case is a manufacturing modification of that enclosure. Either way, > the standard shipping UV3100-90 enclosure does not have anywhere > for Qbus and DSSI connectors. > > I'll look for pinouts if I can dig up the right docs. > > Antonio > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 40 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:04:54 -0500 (EST) > From: "r. 'bear' stricklin" > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Musings on BabyVAX video > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Doc Shipley wrote: > > > I'll look when I get home (next month), but I'm pretty sure one of my > > VS3100 m38 machines was labelled SPX from the factory. > > I just hauled home an m38 that had... an SPX installed. Right after I > bought an SPX card for my m76, to replace the GPX in it. The two SPX > cards > are identical in every way (except possibly dustiness). > > ok > r. > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 41 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:08:55 -0500 (EST) > From: "r. 'bear' stricklin" > To: Classic Computer Talk > Subject: Re: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, David Holland wrote: > > > (The optical mouse I have for it is in too bad a shape to be really > > usable anymore - the felts shot, and it sticks to the metal plate/mouse > > pad too much for my tastes.) > > Uh.. > > Or you could go spend $1 on some felt and glue at the craft store, and > fix > it. > > ok > r. > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 42 > Subject: RE: VXT X terminal question > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:14:35 +0100 > From: "Fred N. van Kempen" > To: > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > All, > > Although I have both the M38 and M76 set up, I cant get the video > part to work - tube (that is on a VXT2000 right now) doesn't seem > to sync on either model. The M38 is standard, the M76 is the SPX > model. Anyone have a clue? > > --fred > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 43 > Subject: Apple 1 schematics > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:22:30 -0500 > From: chris > To: "Classic Computer" > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > In reading my copy of Collectible Microcomputers (yes yes, you all get it > by now, I like the book... ok, I'll stop refering to it after this)... I > noticed in the Apple Computer section a mention of how Apple's first > customers were the folks that got schematics for the Apple 1 when it was > first shown at Home Brew. > > Although I already knew that they alledgedly gave out schematics... I > began to wonder A: did they really (probably) and B: do any copies exist > anywhere? > > I thought it might be a fun project to try an build an Apple 1 from the > schematics... just as the first users probably did. So, does anyone know > if they are available, or does anyone have a copy and might want to send > me a set? Or are copies just as elusive as the Apple 1 itself and there > is no shot in ever getting them. > > -chris > > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 44 > Subject: RE: VXT X terminal question > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:23:32 +0100 > From: "Fred N. van Kempen" > To: > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Jochen writes: > > > Someone on the PUPS / TUHS list has ported 4.3BSD-Tahoe and / or > > 4.3BSD-Reno to the VAX4000-7xx. AFAIK he had some porblems with > > interrupts at autoconfig time, but got it running. > Heh. This is not too hard, but *only* if he used the machine with > a KFQSA (DSSI-to-MSCP) controller, rather than the onboard SHAC. > > It'd be a start, though. Michael, was this you? > > --fred > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 45 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 03 13:44:31 PST > From: msokolov@ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: VXT X terminal question > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > > Someone on the PUPS / TUHS list has ported 4.3BSD-Tahoe and / or > > > 4.3BSD-Reno to the VAX4000-7xx. AFAIK he had some porblems with > > > interrupts at autoconfig time, but got it running. > > Heh. This is not too hard, but *only* if he used the machine with > > a KFQSA (DSSI-to-MSCP) controller, rather than the onboard SHAC. > > > > It'd be a start, though. Michael, was this you? > > Not me. My 4.3BSD suffix is Quasijarus, not Tahoe or Reno. But my opinion > > on > SHAC is radically different from yours. SHAC is a darling beauty. It is a > problem only for cheap OSes like NutBSD and Linsux. Since SHAC is a true > CI > host adapter with the true Generic VAX Port (GVP) it is perfectly > supported > by > the SCA CI port driver present in every proper VAX OS with SCA such as > Ultrix. > Although DEC killed VAX Ultrix before MicroVAXen with SHAC came about, > source > examination shows that the Ultrix V4.20 CI port driver supports SHAC (on > XMI). > Some day I will lift the SCA code wholesale from Ultrix and plop it into > 4.3BSD-Quasijarus. > > MS > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 46 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:13:56 -0800 (PST) > Subject: Re: Apple 1 schematics > From: "Eric Smith" > To: > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > chris asks about Apple I schematics. > > Although I already knew that they alledgedly gave out schematics... I > > began to wonder A: did they really (probably) and B: do any copies > exist > > anywhere? > > A: Yes. > B: Google is your friend. > > > I thought it might be a fun project to try an build an Apple 1 from the > > schematics... > > It's *extremely* difficult to find some of the Apple I parts, which have > been out of production for over years. Particularly the seven 1024-bit > MOS shift registers, and one hex-40-bit MOS shift register. > > > just as the first users probably did. > > Not quite, since they had a PCB. (Unless you plan to lay out a PCB > yourself.) > > > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 47 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:16:19 +0000 > From: John Honniball > Organization: Stoke Gifford Computer Museum > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Got the second batch of -11 equipment > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Bill Bradford wrote: > > Anybody want two RL02s (by the way, how the hell do I get the top > covers > > open? The "switch" on the top wont budge), and two RL01s? > > If the RL02s are like the RL01, there's a little metal panel on the > side, near the "switch". Unscrew that, and you should see the solenoid > interlock mechanism. Fiddle with that, and the "switch" should open > the top cover. > > You'll need to lock the heads down if you're going to ship the drives. > There's a little metal flap below the head carriage, visible with the > top cover open and no pack in the drive. A single screw holds it in the > "open" position. Loosen the screw, turn the flap 90 degrees, then > tighten the screw. The flap is now in front of the head carriage, > preventing it from moving. > > > Pickup in Austin, Texas.. > > I know someone here in Bristol who'd take the RL02s, if they weren't > so far away. > > -- > John Honniball > coredump@gifford.co.uk > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 48 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:19:34 +0000 > From: John Honniball > Organization: Stoke Gifford Computer Museum > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Apple 1 schematics > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > chris wrote: > > Although I already knew that they alledgedly gave out schematics... I > > began to wonder A: did they really (probably) and B: do any copies > exist > > anywhere? > > Parts of the Apple I schematics are shown in the second edition of > "Fire In The Valley". Not enought to build a complete replica, > though. You can see, however, that there's an option for installing > either a 6502 CPU or a 6800. > > -- > John Honniball > coredump@gifford.co.uk > > > > > End of cctech Digest > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003 > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003 > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com End of cctech Digest --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003 From kandres at epssecurity.com Wed Jan 22 00:16:37 2003 From: kandres at epssecurity.com (Kevin Andres) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:56 2005 Subject: PET 2001 Oddity 6550 Unobtainiums Message-ID: <099F935BC4E3B941984DED87DE9B482F0844EE@EPS-exchange.eps.sec.int.net> Ethan, I'm sorry. I hadn't read far enough to see you when I replied to Witchy. The reference to the dynamic ram packs was something I remember having in the late 1970's. It seems to me that they may have been Timex ram packs. You are correct that the add on wasn't easy. It required some large amount of work and is why I looked at it and never proceeded. I am kind of set that if I am going to fix this beasty, I will probably go to a minimum 8 wide ram that is somewhat more modern, and I tend to come by likely candidates every day here. As far as perf board, I have proto'd circuits on it for years, but for the last ten years or so, I have been using PCBExpress on the Internet. They have a free and pretty good board layout package, and now have a schem capture inclusion. I have used the boards in a commercial application (4 port serial, any port in, other ports out, field setable baud rates) and have had no problems with the boards. They have a minimum order, but that only makes sense. Kev -----Original Message----- From: cctech-request@classiccmp.org [SMTP:cctech-request@classiccmp.org] Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 11:48 PM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #324 - 14 msgs Send cctech mailing list submissions to cctech@classiccmp.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cctech-request@classiccmp.org You can reach the person managing the list at cctech-admin@classiccmp.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of cctech digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Found a NCR system 3400 BoatAnchor (WiIdcats@aol.com) 2. Re: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? (Dave McGuire) 3. RE: Core memory speeds (Charles Ader) 4. RE: PET 2001 Oddity - 6550 unobtainium! (Witchy) 5. RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... (Witchy) 6. RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... (Fred N. van Kempen) 7. Re: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips (Peter C. Wallace) 8. Re: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... (Kevin Handy) 9. Re: Any Cromemco USERS? (Sellam Ismail) 10. Need manuals for Electrim EDC-1000 and Dycam Model 1 ($$$) (Vintage Computer Festival) 11. RE: Any Cromemco USERS? (Bill Sudbrink) 12. DOS1.0, 3.20, and the like... (Ed Tillman) 13. Re: Core memory speeds (Jos Dreesen / Marian Capel) 14. RE: PET 2001 Oddity - 6550 unobtainium! (Ethan Dicks) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: WiIdcats@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:25:21 EST Subject: Found a NCR system 3400 BoatAnchor To: cctech@classiccmp.org Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org --part1_16f.1975eb72.2b5d8b01_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit did you ever sell this boat anchor? i have one i want to sell also. -Johnny --part1_16f.1975eb72.2b5d8b01_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit did you ever sell this boat anchor? i have one i want to sell also. -Johnny --part1_16f.1975eb72.2b5d8b01_boundary-- --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 13:55:55 -0500 Subject: Re: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? Cc: Classic Computer Talk To: cctech@classiccmp.org From: Dave McGuire Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Monday, January 20, 2003, at 09:59 AM, David Holland wrote: > Anyone got a PIC programmer they'd use for me? :-) I may be looking > to have someone program a couple of 16F28's here real soon. I have PIC programming capability here, and would be happy to burn some chips for you. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols --__--__-- Message: 3 Subject: RE: Core memory speeds Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:26:50 -0800 From: "Charles Ader" To: Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Jos Dreesen / Marian Capel [mailto:jos.mar@bluewin.ch] > Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 12:10 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Core memory speeds > > > On Monday 20 January 2003 12:02 am, ben franchuk wrote: > > Since I am building a classic TTL style computer, > > what was the access and cycle time of core memory > > before it vanished and just when did it do that? > > Also when did 74LS come out? I am aiming for late > > 70's early 80's time frame here since this looks > > to be the transition stage from the the old to > > the new. Ben > > > My 1975 core memory products catalogue ( Philips components ) > lists modules with cycle times ranging from 0.65 to 1.5 us, > both for 8kx18 stacks. > > My newest core memory stack sits in my Philips P856 : > dated 1980, cycle time unknown. > > My own TTL computer, dated 1986, just uses 8kx8 SRAMs...... > > > Jos Dreesen > With core memory the general rule was the smaller the donut the faster the cycle. The real limiting factors have always been the physical size of the array of cores. The plane, a mat of wires with little teeny-tiny ferrite donuts at each intersection, looks electrically like a lot of inductors all strung in series. This is a good configuration for a low pass filter that we are going to put a very fast pulse through. The bottom line of all this is that even fast core memory tends have around 0.490us write cycle times. Read cycles are always twice the write cycle times. This means you need to read the core memory specs carefully. Be sure that you see the both read and write cycle times. If you can only find one it will most likely be the write cycle time. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Witchy" To: Subject: RE: PET 2001 Oddity - 6550 unobtainium! Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 18:57:59 -0000 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Kevin Andres > Sent: 20 January 2003 15:10 > To: 'cctech@classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: PET 2001 Oddity - 6550 unobtainium! > > > To all, (for fear of missing someone!) > I have a PET with the feared 6550 Unobtainiums. It doesn't > even get to a > prompt, but I suspect the screen full > of characters with some blinking and some that change upon an [ENTER] key > is telling me a video RAM went south. As When my 2001 did that I got some 2114s from bgmicro.com to swap out the video RAM and it works sweetly now. -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Witchy" To: , Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 18:59:13 -0000 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Jochen Kunz > Sent: 20 January 2003 10:15 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... > > > On 2003.01.19 12:30 Witchy wrote: > > > The thing that's puzzling me is the fact they've shoehorned an RX33 > > in there - I thought the 3100-10 was the only machine to have floppy > > capability...... > I have a 2.88 MB SCSI floppy in my MV3100m95. Live and learn eh :) I didn't know that was possible. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans --__--__-- Message: 6 Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:05:21 +0100 From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: , Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org I have several 3100's with diskette drive (both MFM and SCSI). --f > -----Original Message----- > From: Witchy [mailto:witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk] > Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 1:52 PM > To: vance@neurotica.com > Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: vance@neurotica.com [mailto:vance@neurotica.com] > > Sent: 20 January 2003 06:20 > > To: Witchy > > Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... > > > > > I certainly never sold any and I don't remember it being an > > option for the > > > bigger machines. Pity it's front cover is missing too, but for > > 20-odd quid I > > > wouldn't complain :) > > > > That's not exactly right. I've seen everything between > TK50Z's and DLT > > TZ87's in MicroVAX III-series machines. > > Sorry, I meant 3100 series uVAXen :) > > -- > adrian/witchy > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans > > --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:56:11 -0800 (PST) From: "Peter C. Wallace" To: "'ClassicComputers'" Subject: Re: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, M H Stein wrote: > ----------------------Original Message------------------------ > One question. Assuming the signal names are conventional, that's the same > pinout as the '154 decoder. And yet my (ancient, hardbacked) TI TTL book > says that while the 74154 is a logical replacement, it's not a direct > replacement (this implies to me a different pinout). One of the pinouts I > received had the A inputs in the oposite order (20 = A0 .. 23 = A3). Can > somebody please check which is correct. > -tony > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Well, you'll probably get another dozen replies from the other helpful folks > here, but the pinouts and logic tables are identical and 23=a0, 20=a3. > I thought the same when I looked at the 9311, that it sure looked like a > 74154 which was used everywhere, and that there must be a pinout or > big characteristic difference to make it worth FSC's while (since they > also made the '154, and TI, NSC and Motorola, who also made the 9311). Didn't the 9311 pre-date the 74154? IICRC, a lot of the the 9300 series stuff got copied by TI (9300,9316 for example) when they got the synchronous is better message that Fairchild was promoting with the 9300 series... (wish I still had that Orange 9300 series designers guide) > > But the only difference I can see is that the max propagation delay is > less on the 9311; maybe someone else will see something else. > > mike > > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:27:38 -0700 From: Kevin Handy To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Witchy wrote: >>-----Original Message----- >>From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On >>Behalf Of Antonio Carlini >>Sent: 19 January 2003 18:46 >>To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... >> >> >> >>>Frankly, the 8800 is too big, but that is too small... >>> >>> >>Then I guess you need to aim for one of the VAX 4000 >>series, but shipping on those will be pretty >>expensive. >> >> > >You're not kidding - not so long back a local college I do work for decided >to toss their 4000-500 plus RRD42 and TLZ06; fortunately I was there at the >time with a suitably sized estate car (station wagon for our US readers) so >2 of us managed to lift it into the back. When I got home I had to >completely strip it down in situ just to lift the bits out on my own and get >it in the house. In my reseller days the 4000 series were delivered on a >pallet with extra ramps to allow you to wheel the machine down to ground >level and now I know why :) > >Spent a happy couple of hours or so tonight getting my Alpha 3000-400 and >uVAX 3100-90 going again after a few months in storage, and I wish we could >afford the power to have 2 webservers going at the same time! Since we moved >into this house we've doubled our power requirements just for heating and >lighting; 3 machines going at the same time hasn't helped, so an extra VAX >sized load on things *definitely* won't help :) > If you have electrical heating (as opposed to gas/coal/oil/...), then running the VAX will not cost any more. Electricity generates the same amount of heat per kilowatt, no matter how is used. It will not cost any more than running the electrical heating units for the same amount of power. Only problem would be moving the heat to the proper location, and regulating it. ;-) >cheers > > > --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:13:49 -0800 (PST) From: Sellam Ismail To: "'ClassicComputers'" Subject: Re: Any Cromemco USERS? Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, M H Stein wrote: > Just curious; is anybody actually using a Cromemco system > out there, running either CDOS, Cromix or Unix? Or does > anyone at least have one in running condition? I have a System/One in running condition (last I checked) running Cromix from the harddrive. I have two actually. One was exhibited at the first VCF but because of all the moving the hard drive got crashed :( To my knowledge, the other one is still running, but I haven't fired it up in years. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:21:55 -0800 (PST) From: Vintage Computer Festival To: Classic Computers Mailing List Subject: Need manuals for Electrim EDC-1000 and Dycam Model 1 ($$$) Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org ----- Message Text ----- I have an outstanding bounty. I am seeking out manuals for the Electrim EDC-1000 and Dycam Model 1 computer imaging cameras circa late-80s/early-90s. If you have these manuals and want to earn a little extra cash, please contact me directly at . -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Bill Sudbrink" To: Subject: RE: Any Cromemco USERS? Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:31:19 -0500 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Just curious; is anybody actually using a Cromemco system > out there, running either CDOS, Cromix or Unix? Or does > anyone at least have one in running condition? I have an IMSAI chasis stuffed with cromemco boards. I run CP/M on it... but I don't think there would be a reason it wouldn't run a cromemco OS. It has a CPUZ, a 16FDC, a 64KZ and a TU-ART in it. --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Ed Tillman" To: Subject: DOS1.0, 3.20, and the like... Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 13:58:40 -0600 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Hello... Still looking. Someone sent me a reply in the list with a complete set of IBM PC-DOS 1.0 still in the package. I replied, but never saw either my reply or any answer come back. I'm still interested in buying, if I/we can make arrangements... Cheers! Ed --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Jos Dreesen / Marian Capel Organization: None To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Core memory speeds Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 21:09:41 +0100 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Monday 20 January 2003 12:02 am, ben franchuk wrote: > Since I am building a classic TTL style computer, what was the access > and cycle time of core memory before it vanished and just when did it do > that? Also when did 74LS come out? I am aiming for late 70's early 80's > time frame here since this looks to be the transition stage from the the > old to the new. Ben My 1975 core memory products catalogue ( Philips components ) lists modules with cycle times ranging from 0.65 to 1.5 us ,both for 8kx18 stacks. My newest core memory stack sits in my Philips P856 : dated 1980, cycle time unknown. My own TTL computer, dated 1986, just uses 8kx8 SRAMs...... Jos Dreesen --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:10:11 -0800 (PST) From: Ethan Dicks Subject: RE: PET 2001 Oddity - 6550 unobtainium! To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org --- Kevin Andres wrote: > To all, (for fear of missing someone!) > I have a PET with the feared 6550 Unobtainiums. To my experience, those are the more common "static" PETs, but from reading the list, perhaps there were more made with 2114s. > It doesn't even get to a prompt, but I suspect the screen full > of characters with some blinking and some that change upon an > [ENTER] key is telling me a video RAM went south. Perhaps. Could also be zero page. > ...I have toyed with swapping a CD6264 and or multiples into the mother > board even going so far as to quick doing an internet circuit board to > accomodate them. Time is the major constraint here. I also remember an > article or text which referenced adding perhaps a dynamic memory pack > from another machine to the expander plug, with an appropriate R & C > stobe assembly supplying what the PET didn't have. Whoa, memories!!!! Not sure what you are referring to, but I know of a modern board that plugs into the CPU socket that provides 100% of the ROM and program RAM, but I am fairly certain that it does _not_ provide for RAM at $8000. Now... given how the circuit works, it might not be too hard to remove the two video SRAMs (which should be side-by-side, not next to the program RAM at the front edge of the board), replace them with machined pin sockets (or four strips cut from .6" wide sockets if you can't locate "real" 6550 sockets), then you could either swap them out with ones from the front row to verify that it _is_ a video SRAM, or just get some perfboard from Radio Shack (or wherever you get parts these days) and hand-wire a daughter card with just about any 8-bit-wide SRAM from a 2016 or 6116 on up to a 6264 or 62256 or whatever. You could theoretically wire up a socket adapter to use a 2114 in place of a 6550, but given the reliability of the 2114s, I'd seriously consider a more modern alternative. I'm fairly certain the select lines for $8000 are not available on the edge connector, so no matter how you do it, you'll have to tap some lines from the motherboard. You _could_ build an edge-card board with the SRAM on it, remove the internal ones, and run the select lines as jumpers to your card, if you are more comfortable building something for the edge card. Don't know what to recommend for the "least time" solution, though. Check the front row SRAMs first, to see if you have a zero page problem. It's also possible that one of the TTL chips in the address selector logic is faulty and you aren't writing to the video page at all. If one SRAM were out, the machine would function, but look very odd. Sounds like either both SRAMs are faulty or you have a problem elsewhere either in the video chain or for the CPU itself. I have this Fluke 9010A tester that would help establish which one... it plugs into the CPU socket (I have a 6502 pod and a 68000 pod) and either runs as if it were just the CPU in there, or you can break it out of "emulation" mode and generate bus cycles... you can watch it test video memory and use it to strobe lines to see if it's a selector or mux/demux chip. A logic analyzer can also be helpful. I presume you have basic tools but may not have more advanced tools, yes? -ethan > I have looked at the serial number several times and always neglect to > write it down. I early on, 1975 or there > abouts, added a reset button to the front panel because of my tendency to > > lock the silly thing up with my incessant > poking around. I know I also have several of the early tomes on the PET > in > the basement, along with a couple of > Kilobaud articles reference the machine. > > Kev > kandres@epssecurity.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-request@classiccmp.org [SMTP:cctech-request@classiccmp.org] > Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 2:56 AM > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #320 - 48 msgs > > Send cctech mailing list submissions to > cctech@classiccmp.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > cctech-request@classiccmp.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > cctech-admin@classiccmp.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of cctech digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Got the second batch of -11 equipment (Bill Bradford) > 2. Re: Got the second batch of -11 equipment (Dave McGuire) > 3. Re: Update: BBC Acorn (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) > 4. Re: PET 2001 oddity (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) > 5. RE: MV3100 M90 / VAX 4100 (was: VXT X terminal question) (Antonio > Carlini) > 6. PET 2001 oddity - solved! (Adrian Vickers) > 7. RE: Musings on BabyVAX video (Antonio Carlini) > 8. RE: Hobbled NVAX (was: VXT X terminal question) (Antonio Carlini) > 9. Re: PET 2001 oddity (Adrian Vickers) > 10. Re: PET 2001 oddity (Adrian Vickers) > 11. Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? (Kenneth Donchatz) > 12. Re: Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? (Cameron Kaiser) > 13. Re: PET 2001 oddity - solved! (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) > 14. Re: PET 2001 oddity (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) > 15. Re: PET 2001 oddity (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) > 16. RE: Musings on BabyVAX video (Fred deBros) > 17. Re: Update: BBC Acorn (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) > 18. RE: Musings on BabyVAX video (Doc Shipley) > 19. Re: VXT X terminal question (Jochen Kunz) > 20. Re: VXT X terminal question (Jochen Kunz) > 21. BBC Micro - assemblers - info needed (Philip Pemberton) > 22. RE: Musings on BabyVAX video (Peter C. Wallace) > 23. Re: IBM 5322 (Sellam Ismail) > 24. SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? (David > > Holland) > 25. PET 2001 oddity (M H Stein) > 26. T&B Ansley IDC connectors (M H Stein) > 27. PerSci Model 277 Dual 8" Floppy Drives - Info Needed (M H Stein) > 28. Re: About Electronics Questions (Tony Duell) > 29. RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... (Zane H. Healy) > 30. Re: Dear Santa, I would like a Yamaha CX5M ... (Sellam Ismail) > 31. Re: Apple 1 schematics (Tothwolf) > 32. Re: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips (David Gesswein) > 33. Re: DOS 1.0 (Tothwolf) > 34. RE: Hobbled NVAX (Michael Sokolov) > 35. New classic (Gareth Knight) > 36. RE: VXT X terminal question (Michael Sokolov) > 37. MCA Fast Ethernet Cards (vance@neurotica.com) > 38. Re: SGI Discussions? (Brian Chase) > 39. RE: VXT X terminal question (Antonio Carlini) > 40. RE: Musings on BabyVAX video (r. 'bear' stricklin) > 41. Re: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? > (r. > 'bear' stricklin) > 42. RE: VXT X terminal question (Fred N. van Kempen) > 43. Apple 1 schematics (chris) > 44. RE: VXT X terminal question (Fred N. van Kempen) > 45. RE: VXT X terminal question (Michael Sokolov) > 46. Re: Apple 1 schematics (Eric Smith) > 47. Re: Got the second batch of -11 equipment (John Honniball) > 48. Re: Apple 1 schematics (John Honniball) > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:11:17 -0600 > From: Bill Bradford > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Got the second batch of -11 equipment > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Unfortunately, the actual "machine" (the guy didnt know that the MINC-11 > was > a system as well) is just an 11/23 with some RL01s. > > Pictures: > > http://www.pdp11.org/minc/01-18-03/ > > I have no idea if the RL01 disk packs are any good, but I've got one > DEC-labled RT-11 v4.0, and one hand-labeled RT-11 v4.0C "patched to > level F". The top RL01 is missing the hinged cover. > > Anybody want two RL02s (by the way, how the hell do I get the top covers > open? The "switch" on the top wont budge), and two RL01s? Pickup in > Austin, Texas.. > > Not a bad haul for a total of $30, even if I do just keep the 11/23 and > the MINC-11 and the racks. > > Bill > > -- > bill bradford > mrbill@mrbill.net > austin, texas > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:58:47 -0500 > Subject: Re: Got the second batch of -11 equipment > From: Dave McGuire > To: mrbill@mrbill.net, cctech@classiccmp.org > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Saturday, January 18, 2003, at 04:11 PM, Bill Bradford wrote: > > Anybody want two RL02s (by the way, how the hell do I get the top > > covers > > open? The "switch" on the top wont budge), and two RL01s? Pickup in > > Austin, Texas.. > > The top door latch on an RL drive is locked by a solenoid. Apply > power to the drive, make sure the "load" button is out, wait for a > "click" (the load light will come on) then you should be able to > squeeze that little slide handle and open the top cover. > > I would really like to have the RL02s but I have no idea how I'd get > them from you. :-( > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire "She's a cheek pincher. I have scars." > St. Petersburg, FL -Gary Nichols > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:23:31 +0000 (GMT) > From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?= > Subject: Re: Update: BBC Acorn > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > >> just checked mine again and it's 25-ANC13-1000049 > >> > >Mine is 25-ANC13-1000034, and Rob O'Donnell said his is > 25-ANC13-1000038. > > well if Rob's was the last then they obviously didn't do a very good job > of > numbering things :-) Unless Rob's was the last one released by Acorn, > but > they > all sat in storage for a while... > > > Do either of you think you have a Disc 1 for it? > > no discs at all I'm afraid :-( hence why I was asking about whther > there's > a > sensible ftp site to put them on so if a working set can be collected at > least > they can be archived somewhere (the same goes for manuals really, but > scanning > those would be a major pain I expect!) > > that used to be the problem - the hardware used to get thrown out but > discs > would lie around on shelves until someone did a bit of spring cleaning > now > and > then; they would have been trashed seperately and maybe straight into a > bin > in > the office :-( > > cheers > > Jules > (who has too many systems that don't work for lack of necessary discs :-) > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 11:37:37 GMT > From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Jan 17, 18:18, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > > > Unfortunately, the PET seems to have developed an odd fault: It won't > take > > a BASIC program, and some keywords seem to be knackered... > > > So.... I figure the BASIC ROM has become slightly corrupted, OR I've > got > a > > flakey memory chip which reads OK but doesn't write properly. The > question > > is, how to find out? > > Swap some of the RAM chips around and see if it makes a difference. If > it > does, particularly if it fixes it, swap them back -- it might just be a > bad > socket contact. Be careful with the RAM chips: if you have the type of > PET > I think you do, they're MOS Technology 6550, aka unobtainium, and unlike > any other RAM chip. > > > 1) Can the BASIC ROM be swapped with one from, say, a 3032 or 4016? In > > fact, which one IS the BASIC ROM? > > No. BASIC (and also the rest of the code, whether you call it a kernel > or > a monitor, or "stuff") is spread over several chips. And in the early > PETs, the ROMs too are MOS Technology specials, and the different > versions > of PETs had different ROMs. In fact, there was an upgrade for the > originals, because they didn't handle the IEEE routines properly, which > made it impossible to use disks properly (amongst other things). > > > 2) If it's a dodgy memory chip, what's the best way of isolating it? I > have > > an oscilloscope, but nada skill in this sort of thing. > > 3) If, as my money is on, it's the BASIC ROM, can it be replaced with > an > > EPROM - if so, there's a whole gamut of additional questions to > follow.... > > If it's a later unit with 24-pin 2332 mask ROMs, then a TMS2532 EPROM can > be used (not a 2732, nor other 2532s that don't have the TMS prefix). If > it's got 28-pin MOS Technology MPS6540 ROMs, you'd need a carrier to > shuffle some signals, at the very least, and possibly some logic to > handle > the multiple select lines. The good news, though, is that I have a > chicklet-keyboard 2001-N as well, and if necessary, I could probably do a > ROM dump for you (though IIRC it used to be on the 'net somewhere). I > wouldn't need to move more than a few hundreweight of stuff to get at it > ;-) > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 5 > From: "Antonio Carlini" > To: > Subject: RE: MV3100 M90 / VAX 4100 (was: VXT X terminal question) > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 11:48:41 -0000 > Organization: me@home > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > Wow! I thought the CQBIC was not populated on the KA50. > > I'm fairly sure the mainboards are identical (i.e. the same part > number). > I've never been inside a VAX 4000-100 so I've never had the > chance to personally check this, but the last time I saw a > parts list, the part numbers were the same. > > > Hmm. I do not suppose that this identity flag can be > > permanently stored anywhere other than in the firmware flash > > ROM. I'm sure DEC wouldn't want people to suddenly discover > > that their machine shape-shifts when the NVRAM battery is > > disconnected. So does this console test actually erase and > > reprogram a sector in the firmware flash ROM, or is the > > change only in effect until the next power cycle? > > It's stored in the flash EPROM - it rewrites it as > part of the test (and warns you not to switch off > while it is doing so). The change is permanent (until > you run the test again and switch back). > > I doubt HP care whether customers know this or not now. I > doubt they cared even back then: switching from a UV3100-90 > to a VAX 4000-100 didn't get you anything extra (unless > you paid for a new case) and it did cost you more > in licence fees. Switching the other way disabled Qbus > and DSSI, so although your licence cost you less, you > got less for it. And if you wanted the cheaper licence > you would have bought the cheaper machine anyway! > > Antonio > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:28:22 +0000 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > From: Adrian Vickers > Subject: PET 2001 oddity - solved! > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > --=======74632786======= > Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-671DF1C; charset=us-ascii; > > format=flowed > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > Woohoo! > > Turned out to be dead simple; yet another blown 2114. > > I figured the chip @ $0400 (i.e. the start of BASIC) was faulty, seeing > as > how the machine wouldn't take a single line of BASIC. So, I swapped the > appropriate bank out to another bank - and presto! BASIC worked again. > > Having done this, I then swapped *one* of the two chips (according to the > schematic, there are two chips for each $0400 block of memory - why is > this?) back to its original spot, and presto again - no BASIC. Swapped > that > chip for the one remaining spare, and presto^3! BASIC again. > > So, now I need more 2114's as an insurance policy... > > Meanwhile, I thank the list *again* for their invaluable help (Ethan, > Mike > & Pete in particular in this case). What would I do without you (except > preside over a collection of steadily failing machines)? > > -- > Cheers, Ade. > Be where it's at, B-Racing! > http://b-racing.com > > --=======74632786=======-- > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 7 > From: "Antonio Carlini" > To: > Subject: RE: Musings on BabyVAX video > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:06:37 -0000 > Organization: me@home > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > I thought so too. But what about SPX? Can it go into a > > pre-M76 VS3100? And what about VS2K SPX? (It would of course > > be very silly in practice, but I'm talking in principle.) > > SPX will go into KA42s - although I don't know for sure whether > it was ever sold and supported. It will probably plug into a > VS2K but I have no idea whether it will work (or whether anything > would run on it without more code being written). > > > So I thought that KA42 had one big CDAL-to-EDAL bridge > > upfront and the rest of the system except memory was EDAL. > > But I could be wrong, maybe different subsystems have their > > own independent connections to CDAL. > > You are probably right - I just threw in "as necessary" because > I don't have a KA42 block diagram handy (in fact, I may not have > one at all - there is not much info floating around on these > and the early UVAX 3100 systems). > > > But if KA42 indeed has one big CDAL-to-EDAL bridge upfront, > > the million dollar question becomes: why did the VS4000 M90 > > dev team toil to design their own CDAL-to-EDAL bridge (CEAC) > > if there already was one? The only plausible explanation I > > could come up with is that perhaps on KA42 the CDAL-to-EDAL > > bridge was inseparably integrated with the memory controller. > > I don't know why they rolled their own. Given that they used > or modified existing designs where possible, I assume that there > were good reasons. Perhaps the existing design was too slow or > took up too much room (this latter consideration was definitely > very important for the -90). > > > BTW, I have never found any references to a technical manual > > for VS3100 (any > > model) or for the corresponding early MV3100 models. It looks > > like one never existed. Do you have any more info? > > No - and I could never find any even while I was inside > DEC. There must have been *some* such documentation > but it was nowhere I could find. > > > Does KA43 have memory on CDAL or on RDAL? I once had one in > > my hands and when I looked on the board to see what chips it > > There's not a lot of technical info on the KA43 either! > > > Yeah, maybe that was the change. (Was that a typo or was > > EDAQL a chip converting EDAL to SPX's internal bus?) > > Typo. > > > > >http://www.research.compaq.com/wrl/DECarchives/DTJ/DTJ402/DTJ402SC.TXT > > > >But it talks about the X aspects of it and says nothing about VXT2000 > hardware. > > Yes, I've read that one and it's not the one. I was sure that there was > an article describing the VXT2000 itself, but I guess since I cannot > find it either on the web or in my docs, I must have > imagined it. Oh well. > > Antonio > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 8 > From: "Antonio Carlini" > To: > Subject: RE: Hobbled NVAX (was: VXT X terminal question) > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:11:19 -0000 > Organization: me@home > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > I assume the NVAX microcode was patched via its PCS facility > > by the boot firmware, not by making a different NVAX die with > > different microcode I hope, right? If so the abomination is > > I assume so too. > > > to be reversed by reflashing the boot ROM with non-hobbled > > firmware (stolen from a friend with a non-hobbled machine). > > They had flash ROMs like all other NVAXen, right? > > I doubt that non-hobbled firmware exists. I doubt you > could just use the UV3100-96 firmware upgrade on a > UV3100-85 and have it work. In fact, I guess the firmware > is the same but it looks at the machine's hardware (e.g. > size and config of backup cache or something like that) > to determine what it is running on, and disables the VIC > if it thinks the machine is a UV3100-85. > > The easiest thing to do would be to try reenabling the VIC. > If that is not enough, you would have to find the bit of code > that disables the VIC and NOP it out. I doubt that the code > was protected too much: it would have been way beyond most > customers' ability to alter it. > > Antonio > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 9 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:49:24 +0000 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > From: Adrian Vickers > Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > --=======54493991======= > Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-671DF1C; charset=us-ascii; > > format=flowed > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > At 06:41 18/01/2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > >--- Adrian Vickers wrote: > > > I dug the 2001 out of the cupboard the other day... > > > >Can you give more information about *which* 2001 you have? There > >are at least two major motherboard revisions for the static-RAM PETs. > >They use different ROMs and RAMs. > > OK, I can but try.... > > According to the sticker on the back, this is a 2001-8BS. The motherboard > layout appears to be the same as the one pictured on www.zimmers.net on > the > 4k/8k layout. I've taken some photos of my motherboard, which can now be > found here: > > http://helmies.org.uk/images/cbm2001/mobo_front.jpg > http://helmies.org.uk/images/cbm2001/mobo_back.jpg > http://helmies.org.uk/images/cbm2001/mobo_side.jpg > > NOTE: Each picture is approx 449K = long download over a modem! > > >Also, as I have one, there are also models of 2001 that have _dynamic_ > >RAMs. My 2001-N has 32K worth of 4116 chips (from the factory) and a > >full-sized graphic keyboard. If it were for sale in Europe, it would > >most likely been labelled a 3032, for comparison, but here in the > States, > >it says "2001" on the front. > > > >I bring it up because I _think_ you are talking about the original > >chicklet-keyboard SRAM PET, but you didn't come right out and say so. > > Apologies, I didn't; I keep forgetting that the 2001 went through more > development than perhaps any of the other PETs. Yes, it is a chicklet > keyboard version, with static RAM (2114's) and original 28-pin MOS ROMs. > > > > > > Unfortunately, the PET seems to have developed an odd fault: It won't > > > take a BASIC program, and some keywords seem to be knackered... > >. > >. > >. > > > So.... I figure the BASIC ROM has become slightly corrupted, OR I've > got > > > a flakey memory chip... > > > > > > 1) Can the BASIC ROM be swapped with one from, say, a 3032 or 4016? > > > >Most likely not. If your 2001 has 2114 SRAMs, perhaps. There are > >upgrade ROMs (BASIC 2.0, anyway) _for_ the 2001 > > Personally, I'd rather keep this one as original as possible, i.e. keep > the > original (buggy) ROMs. However, if it means keeping it working, then I'm > prepared to substitute the MOS ROMs with a board/set of boards containing > more modern EPROMs wired appropriately containing the original images. > Not > that I've got a clue how to go about doing that, mind... > > > > > In fact, which one IS the BASIC ROM? > > > >BASIC lives in several ROMs, the Kernel lives in several ROMs. BASICs > >prior to 4.0 occupied $C000-$DFFF, and the Kernel occupied $E000-$FFFF, > >minus the PIAs and VIAs, etc., at $E800. BASIC 4.0 starts at $B000 > >to add room for diskette commands. > > > >In my PET, $9000, $A000 and $B000 are filled with user-supplied firmware > >(better machine-language monitor, BASIC extensions and a tape speeder). > >These sorts of things, plus ROMs for word processors and other > applications > >were somewhat typical amongst serious PET users. Dunno if yours has > >anything like that, but if you find ROMs where you expect none to be, > >that's probably why. > > Well, there are no unpolulated sockets, so perhaps it's a fair bet that > there's some extra stuff in there. Goodness knows what, though, all the > ROMs are MOS 6540's. > > > > 2) If it's a dodgy memory chip, what's the best way of isolating it? > I > > > have an oscilloscope, but nada skill in this sort of thing. > > > >The typical way of testing RAMs in a C= service center was to rotate > >a pair of them from bank to bank and see if the symptoms shift. It > >was especially handy for detecting zero page problems. > > Figures :( I've had to do this once already to locate a broken 2114 > (when > I got the machine, it claimed only 1600 bytes of memory were free). > Luckily, I have one more spare 2114 (I got two from someone on this list, > I > forget who [for which I apologise] and thank them (again) profusely, as > if > it is a broken 2114, there's a chance the second spare might be > essential). > > Anyway, if it *is* a failing RAM chip, my guess is it's the one which > sits > near the bottom of BASIC memory, since the first line number causes a > crash. Does anyone have a map showing the correlation between memory > addresses & specific chips? > > If it's on the schematics, I'll be looking there next (so no need to > answer > that question). > > > > > Ta for that, all good info! > > Thus, the order of the day is: > > 1) Try to determine which 2114 chip might have gone bad, either by > sequenced swapping or by trying to be clever with the schematics. > > 2) If that doesn't fix it, re-seat all ROMs. > > 3) If that doesn't fix it, go to plan C - which doesn't exist yet... > > Also, I know this has been asked & answered before, but what's the best > way > of cleaning the board? It has more dust on it than I am properly > comfortable with, and besides it looks horrible. > > I'm guessing that *ideally* it should be washed in distilled water with a > very soft brush, then left in a warm place to dry thoroughly. OTOH, maybe > alcohol would be a better idea? I have some disc head cleaning alcohol > which would suffice - recommendations please! > > > >Good luck, > > Thanks - I'm going to need that (in place of specific skills :) > > > >P.S. - if you don't know about http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/ it's a > >great site with schematics and firmware. > > I already knew of it, but had forgotten how useful it might be. Will > check > that out next. Ta! > > > -- > Cheers, Ade. > Be where it's at, B-Racing! > http://b-racing.com > > --=======54493991=======-- > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 10 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:55:43 +0000 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > From: Adrian Vickers > Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > --=======37E27F29======= > Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-671DF1C; charset=us-ascii; > > format=flowed > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > At 11:37 18/01/2003, you wrote: > > >On Jan 17, 18:18, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > > > > > Unfortunately, the PET seems to have developed an odd fault: It won't > >take > > > a BASIC program, and some keywords seem to be knackered... > > > > > So.... I figure the BASIC ROM has become slightly corrupted, OR I've > got > >a > > > flakey memory chip which reads OK but doesn't write properly. The > >question > > > is, how to find out? > > > >Swap some of the RAM chips around and see if it makes a difference. If > it > >does, particularly if it fixes it, swap them back -- it might just be a > bad > >socket contact. Be careful with the RAM chips: if you have the type of > PET > >I think you do, they're MOS Technology 6550, aka unobtainium, and unlike > >any other RAM chip. > > Hi Pete, > > It's not *quite* as bad as all that, it uses 2114's. Although they're not > made of unobtainum, they ARE made of "rareium" (or R@RE!ium on eBay - > probably the *WOW* *L@@K* isotope, knowing my luck :). > > > > 1) Can the BASIC ROM be swapped with one from, say, a 3032 or 4016? > In > > > fact, which one IS the BASIC ROM? > > > >No. BASIC (and also the rest of the code, whether you call it a kernel > or > >a monitor, or "stuff") is spread over several chips. > > Damn, I just *knew* it wouldn't be that easy. > > > And in the early > >PETs, the ROMs too are MOS Technology specials, and the different > versions > >of PETs had different ROMs. > > AFAICT, these are version 1 ROMs. Every socket is filled, and they're all > MOS6540s. > > >If it's got 28-pin MOS Technology MPS6540 ROMs, you'd need a carrier to > >shuffle some signals, at the very least, and possibly some logic to > handle > >the multiple select lines. > > Harrumph. Guess which one it has... > > Still, I've no fear of making carriers, etc. - albeit time constraints & > lack of equipment will make it tough right now - at least until I can get > my MicroMAT going. > > >The good news, though, is that I have a > >chicklet-keyboard 2001-N as well, and if necessary, I could probably do > a > >ROM dump for you (though IIRC it used to be on the 'net somewhere). I > >wouldn't need to move more than a few hundreweight of stuff to get at it > >;-) > > That might be cool (and *snap* about the tons of stuff, although having > seen your little collection I think you do have rather more to shift > about > than me!). However, let me try out the RAM swapping & chip re-seating > first, and if that doesn't fix it, then we'll look into EPROMs & > suchlike. > > -- > Cheers, Ade. > Be where it's at, B-Racing! > http://b-racing.com > > --=======37E27F29=======-- > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 11 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 05:40:46 -0800 (PST) > From: Kenneth Donchatz > Subject: Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > --0-1341891654-1042897246=:19979 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > I have a 13 year old apple macintosh that works like a dream. It's > loaded > with programs, and this great little machine got me through law school > and > helped me launch my career. When my employer switched over to a compaq > system, I could no longer use this machine to work on projects at home > and > was forced to pick up an etower package instead. For the last 5 years, > it's sat in my basement waiting. Everything works perfectly, including > the > printer, and all of the parts are original. Any tips on where I might > take > this machine so that it can be used? It's a shame to let it sit here and > rot. > > Ken Donchatz > > kendonchatz@yahoo.com > > Columbus, Ohio > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now > --0-1341891654-1042897246=:19979 > Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii > >

I have a 13 year old apple macintosh that works like a dream.  > It's > loaded with programs, and this great little machine got me through law > school and helped me launch my career.  When my employer switched > over > to a compaq system, I could no longer use this machine to work on > projects > at home and was forced to pick up an etower package instead.  For > the > last 5 years, it's sat in my basement waiting.  Everything works > perfectly, including the printer, and all of the parts are > original.  > Any tips on where I might take this machine so that it can be used? It's > a > shame to let it sit here and rot.

>

Ken Donchatz

>

kendonchatz@yahoo.com

>

Columbus, Ohio


Do you Yahoo!?
> href="http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com">Yahoo! > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. href="http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com">Sign > up > now > --0-1341891654-1042897246=:19979-- > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 12 > From: Cameron Kaiser > Subject: Re: Apple Macintosh- where would this be useful? > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 06:09:47 -0800 (PST) > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > I have a 13 year old apple macintosh that works like a dream. > > Which model? > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: > http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * > ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- Of course I run NetBSD. --------------------------------------------- > > ------- > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 13 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:34:45 GMT > From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity - solved! > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Jan 18, 13:28, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > > Turned out to be dead simple; yet another blown 2114. > > > > I figured the chip @ $0400 (i.e. the start of BASIC) was faulty, seeing > as > > how the machine wouldn't take a single line of BASIC. So, I swapped the > > appropriate bank out to another bank - and presto! BASIC worked again. > > Good! > > > Having done this, I then swapped *one* of the two chips (according to > the > > schematic, there are two chips for each $0400 block of memory - why is > > this?) > > A 2114 is 1K x 4 bits wide, so they're used in pairs to make bytes. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 14 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:11:59 GMT > From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Hi, Ade. > > On Jan 18, 12:55, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > > It's not *quite* as bad as all that, it uses 2114's. Although they're > not > > made of unobtainum, they ARE made of "rareium" (or R@RE!ium on eBay - > > probably the *WOW* *L@@K* isotope, knowing my luck :). > > Good! If it *is* a RAM fault, and you can't find one at a reasonable > price, let me know. I think I still have a small number spare. > > > AFAICT, these are version 1 ROMs. Every socket is filled, and they're > all > > MOS6540s. > > Drat. Let's hope it's not a ROM fault. Sadly, my copy of "The PET > Revealed" with its mostly-legible (!) circuit diagrams, shows the later > board with 2332s. But I do have a copy of the MPS6540 pinout somewhere. > > > Harrumph. Guess which one it has... > > > > Still, I've no fear of making carriers, etc. - albeit time constraints > & > > lack of equipment will make it tough right now - at least until I can > get > > my MicroMAT going. > > > > >The good news, though, is that I have a > > >chicklet-keyboard 2001-N as well, and if necessary, I could probably > do > a > > >ROM dump for you (though IIRC it used to be on the 'net somewhere). I > > >wouldn't need to move more than a few hundreweight of stuff to get at > it > > >;-) > > > > That might be cool (and *snap* about the tons of stuff, although having > > seen your little collection I think you do have rather more to shift > about > > than me!). However, let me try out the RAM swapping & chip re-seating > > first, and if that doesn't fix it, then we'll look into EPROMs & > suchlike. > > OK. Give me shout if you want me to start burrowing. Or come and pay a > visit... > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 15 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:29:23 GMT > From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: PET 2001 oddity > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Jan 18, 12:49, Adrian Vickers wrote: > > At 06:41 18/01/2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > >I bring it up because I _think_ you are talking about the original > > >chicklet-keyboard SRAM PET, but you didn't come right out and say so. > > > > Apologies, I didn't; I keep forgetting that the 2001 went through more > > development than perhaps any of the other PETs. Yes, it is a chicklet > > keyboard version, with static RAM (2114's) and original 28-pin MOS > ROMs. > > > Well, there are no unpolulated sockets, so perhaps it's a fair bet that > > there's some extra stuff in there. Goodness knows what, though, all the > > ROMs are MOS 6540's. > > Then there's no extras. The MOS Technology 6540 ROMs are half the > capacity > of the 2332s in later boards, so there are seven of them in a standard > PET > and no spare sockets. > > > Figures :( I've had to do this once already to locate a broken 2114 > (when > > I got the machine, it claimed only 1600 bytes of memory were free). > > Luckily, I have one more spare 2114 (I got two from someone on this > list, > I > > forget who [for which I apologise] and thank them (again) profusely, as > if > > it is a broken 2114, there's a chance the second spare might be > essential). > > I think it was me (and I think you already said thankyou :-)) > > > Also, I know this has been asked & answered before, but what's the best > way > > of cleaning the board? It has more dust on it than I am properly > > comfortable with, and besides it looks horrible. > > > > I'm guessing that *ideally* it should be washed in distilled water with > a > > very soft brush, then left in a warm place to dry thoroughly. OTOH, > maybe > > alcohol would be a better idea? I have some disc head cleaning alcohol > > which would suffice - recommendations please! > > Start by vacuuming it with a powerful vacuum and a soft, small, > paintbrush > (about 1/2" - 1") to help disldge the dirt. You might not need to wash > it > after that. It's not too important for a board like this, but the air > rushing through a plastic vacuum nozzle can generate a surprising amount > of > static, so ideally the nozzle should be conductive, and grounded. > > If you do wash it, use some detergent, do not get it too hot, rinse with > distilled water and a *very small* amount of wetting agent (to help the > water drain). Blowing off the excess with low-pressure compressed air > and/or rinsing in IPA or meths (which mix with water and helps remove it) > may also be a good idea. Do make sure you get all the water out of > places > like IC sockets, switches, and connectors, as residues may eventually > lead > to corrosion. > > In extreme cases, or where I've had a lot of boards to clean, I've used > the > dishwasher -- but do not let the dishwasher do the normal drying cycle as > it's too hot for safety. Some dishwashers seem to use very hot water, > too, > and some types of PCB and some types of plastic don't like that. Don't > use > a dishwasher on boards that have non-sealed relays, transformers, paper > labels, etc. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 16 > From: "Fred deBros" > To: > Subject: RE: Musings on BabyVAX video > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:34:21 -0500 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > I'm pretty sure that a VS3100-76 with no graphics board *will* come up > using onboard monochrome (use the green signal). > I don't think I've ever actually used one this way, but I do > know that the GPX and SPX options came with a little stick-on > panel that said either "GPX" or "SPX" in about the right size > and font to stick right after the "VAXstation 3100 M76" nameplate. > > Mine does and it is just a matter on which pin you pick it up in the > back of the box! I'd have to go to my office to ck it again. > > Fred > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 17 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:42:37 GMT > From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Update: BBC Acorn > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Jan 18, 10:23, Jules Richardson wrote: > > > > Do either of you think you have a Disc 1 for it? > > > > no discs at all I'm afraid :-( hence why I was asking about whther > there's a > > sensible ftp site to put them on so if a working set can be collected > at > least > > they can be archived somewhere (the same goes for manuals really, but > scanning > > those would be a major pain I expect!) > > Well, someone else has offered to copy Disc 1 for me. I've also found a > few other people who have ARM Evaluation Systems, so once I get a good > Disc > 1, I'll put the set of six on my website (and if anyone from any of the > Beeb sites wants to make a copy, that's fine by me). Any suggestions as > to > format to use for the images? > > I've also just been told that the production run of ARM (not ARM2) chips > was 2000. I know some were used in-house for other types of development > system (like the A500) and more were used for Springboard (an ISA card, > the > PC equivalent of the ARM Development System), so 50 or 100 seem likely > numbers for the quantity of ARM Development Kits made to fit Beebs. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 18 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:09:30 -0600 (CST) > From: Doc Shipley > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Musings on BabyVAX video > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > > I thought so too. But what about SPX? Can it go into a > > > pre-M76 VS3100? And what about VS2K SPX? (It would of course > > > be very silly in practice, but I'm talking in principle.) > > > > SPX will go into KA42s - although I don't know for sure whether > > it was ever sold and supported. It will probably plug into a > > VS2K but I have no idea whether it will work (or whether anything > > would run on it without more code being written). > > I'll look when I get home (next month), but I'm pretty sure one of my > VS3100 m38 machines was labelled SPX from the factory. > > Doc > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 19 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:21:03 +0100 > From: Jochen Kunz > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: VXT X terminal question > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Fri, Jan 17, 2003 at 11:38:58PM -0000, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > Obviously you have to have a Qbus extension cable and some way > > of connecting it - the easiest way is a VAX 4000-1xx cab :-) > Well, the enclosure is the same. It is only a set of additional > connectors on the back an internal cabling. At least I interpreted > pictures of a VAX4k105 this way. But all I need is the pinout. > Building some cables is no problem and I have a QBus backplane > from a dead and rotten BA23. > > > > Sad that I have not the QBus cabling for my MV3100m95. A 83 > > > MHz NVAX (32 VUPs?) desktop VAX wirh QBus would be nice. > > It would indeed. The VAX 4000-1xx range is something that > > I only rarely got to play on. But there are plenty of > > other Qbus boxes around. > I have a MV II, MV III, MV3900, MV4k200, VAX4k300, VAX4k400 > and a PDP11-73. Enough QBus boxen to play. OK. I miss a KA640 > based machine. But none of them brings that power in that small > footprint and is easy to interface to lots of storage, i.e. > SCSI. > -- > > > > tschu?, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 20 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:29:24 +0100 > From: Jochen Kunz > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: VXT X terminal question > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Sat, Jan 18, 2003 at 10:50:58AM +0100, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > I have the Ultrix V4.50 source tree [no comment] and will be porting it > > to > > the M76, *and* (which is my target) my beloved 4000-700A. > Someone on the PUPS / TUHS list has ported 4.3BSD-Tahoe and / or > 4.3BSD-Reno to the VAX4000-7xx. AFAIK he had some porblems with > interrupts at autoconfig time, but got it running. > -- > > > > tschu?, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 21 > From: "Philip Pemberton" > To: > Subject: BBC Micro - assemblers - info needed > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:16:39 -0000 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Hi all, > I've just downloaded three assemblers from the ROM archive at > http://bbc.nvg.org . Catch is, none of them include manuals. I've got > copies > of: > VASM65 v2.0E by Vida Rebus > ASM 1.10 by SYSTEM (claims to be the "ASM 6502 Macro assembler > V1.10", > "Copyright (C) 1984 SYSTEM"). Contains text strings like "Press play", so > may be a tape->ROM conversion. > ROMAS 3.02 by TBK Associates (full copyright string = "ROMAS 3.02 > (C)1985 TBK Associates - S.C." > > Has anyone here got any documentation for these assemblers? I'd like > to > get at least one of them to assemble *something*. Perhaps a "Hello World" > program? > Also, Vasm outputs Intel Hex files from what I can gather - does > anyone > here have an Intel Hex -> Binary converter for the BBC Micro? > Finally, does anyone know how some discs were formatted so they were > compatible with 40-track and 80-track disc drives? > > Thanks. > -- > Phil. > philpem@dsl.pipex.com > http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 22 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:07:36 -0800 (PST) > From: "Peter C. Wallace" > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Musings on BabyVAX video > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > > I thought so too. But what about SPX? Can it go into a > > > pre-M76 VS3100? And what about VS2K SPX? (It would of course > > > be very silly in practice, but I'm talking in principle.) > > > > SPX will go into KA42s - although I don't know for sure whether > > it was ever sold and supported. It will probably plug into a > > VS2K but I have no idea whether it will work (or whether anything > > would run on it without more code being written). > > > I have a few VT1300's with SPX badges and SPX cards inside, so at least > the > Xterm verison of the KA42/SPX seems to have been supported... > > > Peter Wallace > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 23 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:23:06 -0800 (PST) > From: Sellam Ismail > To: > Subject: Re: IBM 5322 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > > The System 23 I briefly worked on (as in 'got inside') had a DE9 > > connector for the printer IIRC. It was a _current loop_ serial port, > and > > of course the character set is EBCDIC (but as you say, that's a minor > > problem). > > I was wondering what that connector was. Now I know :) > > > I think (based on the current loop on the PC Async card) that IBM's > > convention was that transmiters were active and non-isolated, receivers > > were passive and opto-isolated, but do check this before hooking > > anything up. > > Cool, after the punch card project I actually know what you're talking > about ;) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com > * > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 24 > Subject: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? > From: David Holland > To: Classic Computer Talk > Date: 18 Jan 2003 13:07:13 -0500 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Wot about SGI Crimson's? (Or in my case, a Power Series frame, w/ > Crimson boards in it) Or are they too new (and LARGE :-) ) for the > list? > > (Now for the possibly Off List questions of my post) > > I'd like to get hold of a Reality Engine for it as mine (alas) only has > a VGXT boardset. Anyone know where I could find one? > > I'd also be interested if anyone has interfaced a Sun Type 5 mouse to > it, as they look like they use the same protocol, just one is +5v logic, > the other is RS232? (Maxim's MAX232's sound vaguely useful, but they're > hard to find around here in 1sie 2sie counts) > > (The optical mouse I have for it is in too bad a shape to be really > usable anymore - the felts shot, and it sticks to the metal plate/mouse > pad too much for my tastes.) > > The whole thing that torque's me off the worst about it is.. its 3x's > bigger than my PC, and its 3x's quieter... :) > > Anyways, If I'm off list focus, someone point it out to me, and I'll > hush, and wait for the Apple II stuff to respond too.. :-) > > David > > On Fri, 2003-01-17 at 23:19, Brian Chase wrote: > > On Fri, 17 Jan 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > > > It's not just on a system like that. Earlier this week I got my > first > SGI > > > system, a nice little O2. It's about the crappiest of the O2's, but > it's > > > still a *very* nice UNIX workstation. I thought that it was doing OK > > at > > > surfing until yesterday when I wanted to check something on gamespot, > > it > > > absolutly crawled to a halt trying to render the pages (well the > browser > > > did, the rest of the system was nice and responsive). I swear it > took > close > > > to 10 minutes to get to the third page (the one that had the data I > was > > > curious about). > > > > > > I think I'll now run the browser on my Linux box and retarget it to > the > > > SGI's desktop (at least until I get an Octane). > > > > I'll wait to get an Onyx. Actually, the Origin 2000s are quite lovely, > > too. They're still really off topic for this list. > > > > -brian. > > > > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 25 > From: M H Stein > To: "'ClassicComputers'" > Subject: PET 2001 oddity > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:19:36 -0500 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Ethan: thanks for the info; I've never seen a > dynamic RAM 2001N, although a friend of mine > home-brewed a static > dynamic conversion. > 4032s of course, but I take it you're talking > about a real small-B/W-screen 2001. > > I sometimes toy with the idea of building > a PET using modern chips; shouldn't be too > big a deal (very low on my to-do list though). > > Adrian: Was working on adding my .02 to the > discussion, but read on and saw that you're > in business. If you can't find any locally, > I've got several tubes of 2114s here in frosty > Canada. And they are used in pairs because > they're only 4 bits wide (x 1K). > > One of my PETs, with an MTU graphics board, > is dead as well; this discussion just might > motivate me to have a look at it. > > Good luck! > > mike > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 26 > From: M H Stein > To: "'ClassicComputers'" > Subject: T&B Ansley IDC connectors > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:25:29 -0500 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > ---------------Original Message--------------- > Subject: T&B Ansley IDC connectors > From: "Jeffrey H. Ingber" > Date: 17 Jan 2003 19:17:20 -0500 > > Does anyone know where I can aquire the T&B ansley "light blue" IDC > ribbon cable connectors that were used by MITS? > > Googling reveals that Tyco purchased this line of connectors in 2001, > but I can't find any mention of T&B Ansley on their web site. > > Thanks, > Jeff > ------------------------------------------------------- > Used to use a lot of these & have a few left; Exactly which ones are > you looking for? > > mike > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 27 > From: M H Stein > To: "'ClassicComputers'" > Subject: PerSci Model 277 Dual 8" Floppy Drives - Info Needed > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:29:05 -0500 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > ---------------------Original Message------------------------- > From: "Tim Myers" > To: > Subject: PerSci Model 277 Dual 8" Floppy Drives - Info Needed > > Does anyone have any info on these drives? I have some in a CP/M system > (Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1), and they seem completely dead. They have an > electric load mechanism, but when I insert a disk, nothing happens. > Popped the case and can't see anything obviously out of place. > > Tim. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Cromemco used these in early models of the System 3; not exactly the most > reliable. Sorry to say, I scrapped several of them a year ago and, > although > I've > got manuals for most Cromemco stuff I don't think I've got any docs on > these. > > But I'll have a look and let you know if I find anything. Meanwhile, > there > are > probably several people on this list who have them and could perhaps at > least compare notes with ya. They are getting power? > > Good luck, > > mike > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 28 > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Subject: Re: About Electronics Questions > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:32:58 +0000 (GMT) > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > The biggest thing however for anybody doing repair > > is get all the doc's you can even before you start > > repairing something.A schematic is a very useful > > Agreed (why do you think I have a few _thousand_ scheamtics/repair > manuals...). However, the schematic is not always available (maybe not > anywhere any more), so it can be useful to be able to make guesses and > 'find your way aobut' without a schematic. Alas this comes with (a lot > of) practice... > > > PS Caps are the first thing to go in any equiment > > unless you let the magic smoke out first. > > Hmmm.. Not always. I've had a number of HP98x0 machines on the bench in > the last few months. I've had to change _one_ electrolytic capacitor and > about 20 TTL chipes (particularly 74Hxx parts). And we all know that 2114 > RAM chips are often dead... > > -tony > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 29 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:13:48 -0800 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > From: "Zane H. Healy" > Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX.... > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > >Didn't see one at a fiver. Saw > >http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1484&item=23017 > >94356 > >which is claimed to be a UV3100-95. Assuming it is, then it's > >a darned fast VAX (in VAX terms) and really well worth having. > > That's one nice VAX, I'm glad it's on the other side of the pond :^) > > >The DLT looks more like a TZ30 to me (still nice to have) and > > A good indication that it's a TZ30 is that it's a half-height drive. The > TZ30 is the only half-height drive that uses Compact-Tapes. > > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 30 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:26:42 -0800 (PST) > From: Sellam Ismail > To: > Subject: Re: Dear Santa, I would like a Yamaha CX5M ... > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > Anyone ever seen someone out there trying to get rid of a Yamaha CX5M? > It's > > about the only MSX machine I have significant curiosity about due to > its > > specialised music abilities. > > Yes, and I helped them get rid of it by taking it away for them ;) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com > * > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 31 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:38:05 -0600 (CST) > From: Tothwolf > To: Classic Computer > Subject: Re: Apple 1 schematics > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, chris wrote: > > > In reading my copy of Collectible Microcomputers (yes yes, you all get > > it by now, I like the book... ok, I'll stop refering to it after > > this)... I noticed in the Apple Computer section a mention of how > > Apple's first customers were the folks that got schematics for the > Apple > > 1 when it was first shown at Home Brew. > > > > Although I already knew that they alledgedly gave out schematics... I > > began to wonder A: did they really (probably) and B: do any copies > exist > > anywhere? > > > > I thought it might be a fun project to try an build an Apple 1 from the > > schematics... just as the first users probably did. So, does anyone > know > > if they are available, or does anyone have a copy and might want to > send > > me a set? Or are copies just as elusive as the Apple 1 itself and there > > is no shot in ever getting them. > > Ok, I guess its time I post on the list about this... > > I've been thinking about this very project for sometime. The main > problems > that I came up with are: > 1. certain parts are difficult to find > 2. ROM source and/or binary image availability > 3. re-creating the pc boards > > The first problem should be possible to overcome either by finding a > stock > of surplus parts, or should significant demand exist, having the parts > made by a company that specializes in fabricating out of production > parts. > I've actually looked into the later a couple times in the past, and the > prices didn't seem to be out of line. I've even wondered if it would be > possible to get a copy of the mask from Intel for say the i8008 or i4004 > and have reproductions made. > > The second and third problems may be slightly more difficult to overcome. > One option would be to find an Apple 1, dump the ROMs, carefully unsolder > all the parts and scan each side of the cleaned pc boards. The scanned > images can then be used to create gerber files. I personally don't have > the funds to go out and buy an Apple 1, and I don't know of anyone who > would give up one just for it to be taken to bits. > > Another option for the second and third problems is to contact Woz and > see > if he would be willing to help. I have so far restrained myself from > emailing him, since I know he gets tons and tons of emails, including > people asking him if he has an Apple 1 he could give them, etc. I'd > imagine Woz would very much like to see the Apple 1 preserved, but it > would probably take him quite a bit of time to find all the docs and info > that we'd need. > > -Toth > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 32 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:41:14 -0500 > From: David Gesswein > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Wanted : Pinouts for 9311, 93L14, 8273 chips > > Fairchild 9311 (4 bit -> 16 line decoder?) > > 1 of 16 decoder > > 1 : 0 > 2 : 1 > 3 : 2 > 4 : 3 > 5 : 4 > 6 : 5 > 7 : 6 > 8 : 7 > 9 : 8 > 10 : 9 > 11 : 10 > 12 : Gnd > 13 : 11 > 14 : 12 > 15 : 13 > 16 : 14 > 17 : 15 > 18 : E1 > 19 : E2 > 20 : A3 > 21 : A2 > 22 : A1 > 23 : A0 > 24 : Vcc > > E1 and E2 both low to enable output. Outputs 0-15 are active low > > Fairchild 93L14 (latch?) > Probably same as NSC > http://www.national.com/ds/93/93L14.pdf > > Signetics 8273 (10 bit serial-in, parallel out shift register) > > 1 : Q6 > 2 : Q7 > 3 : Q8 > 4 : Q9 > 5 : Q10 > 6 : ClK1/ > 7 : CLK2 > 8 : Gnd > 9 : Clr/ > 10 : Serial In > 11 : Q1 > 12 : Q2 > 13 : Q3 > 14 : Q4 > 15 : Q5 > 16 : Vcc > > Clk2 low and clk1 works > clk1 high and clk2 works > clk1 feeds an inverter then is ored with clk2 and result inverted to > clock the flip flops. > > David Gesswein > http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights. > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 33 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:53:42 -0600 (CST) > From: Tothwolf > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: DOS 1.0 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Live Wire wrote: > > > > I do also memember Wordstar and it's arcane command sequences. Those > > > commands persisted though, through a number of ordinary text editors > > > for programmers & such. > > > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/joe-editor/ > > > > This is as close to wordstar and the WS CTRL-K-x command set I have > > found. I used to use wordstar on a tiny portable computer with a 4 line > > display to write asm for the amiga 500 and then dump it via the built > in > > modem. Joe is my favorite editor today, though I find myself living in > > vi for the most part... > > I use 'joe' constantly myself. It's my day to day editor for editing > source code. I have used vi and vim somewhat, but I've honestly not yet > taken the time to learn vi as well as I should. I'm sure I must be > missing > out by not using vi (well, thats what other software developers tell me), > but joe is fast and does what I need it to. > > Somewhere, I have a complete Wordstar set for the Apple II. IIRC, I > pulled > it and some other complete Apple II software from a trash pile back in > 1998 or so. > > -Toth > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 34 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 03 11:13:01 PST > From: msokolov@ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Hobbled NVAX > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > I doubt that non-hobbled firmware exists. I doubt you > > could just use the UV3100-96 firmware upgrade on a > > UV3100-85 and have it work. In fact, I guess the firmware > > is the same but it looks at the machine's hardware (e.g. > > size and config of backup cache or something like that) > > to determine what it is running on, and disables the VIC > > if it thinks the machine is a UV3100-85. > > Umm, I don't think so. It looks like the firmware is the only difference > between M85 and the equivalent M9x model and the hardware is the same. In > > this > case flashing M9x firmware would obviously give you the M9x model. But > even > if > the M85 board was really different in B-cache or something from all M9x > models, > I doubt that the firmware could detect this by "looking at the hardware". > > AFAIK > it's the firmware that has to tell the chips how the board is configured, > > not > the other way around. > > If indeed the hobbled and non-hobbled firmware are the same code, what it > > looks > at to make the decision is most probably a flag in the second longword of > > the > ROM. > > > The easiest thing to do would be to try reenabling the VIC. > > If that is not enough, you would have to find the bit of code > > that disables the VIC and NOP it out. > > Well, if it munges the microcode I would go for option 2 in any case. > > BTW, do you know for sure that it really munges the microcode and not > just > disables the VIC in the same way normal caches from CVAX onward can be > enabled > and disabled as you like? > > MS > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 35 > From: "Gareth Knight" > To: > Subject: New classic > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:20:36 -0000 > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > http://c64upgra.de/c-one/s_pictures.htm > First pictures of the CommodoreOne pre-production board are now online: > ""the pictures section has been extended by 11 pictures of the > pre-production board. Basic testing has already been done, all chips are > responding positively to diagnostic access. A 100% test procedure will be > developed this weekend." > -- > Gareth Knight > Amiga Interactive Guide | Team *AMIGA* member > http://amiga.emugaming.com | http://www.amigau.com/aig/index.html > > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 36 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 03 11:28:06 PST > From: msokolov@ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: VXT X terminal question > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > Ugh. Make that V4.20, obviously. Development is done on my V4.5 box.. > > > > Shitty thing is, that I probably will also have to run a 4.2 system as > > a second-step system for bootstrapping, and I dont have a 4.2/vax tk50 > > or cd set. > > Why can't you compile and use the V4.20 kernel on your V4.50 system? > > BTW, have you tried booting VXT on different VS3100s? I would really like > > to > use a KA43 for my own VXT if possible, but I need to know if it is or > not. > > MS > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 37 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:23:31 -0500 (EST) > From: vance@neurotica.com > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org, > Subject: MCA Fast Ethernet Cards > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > Would the people who wanted the PS/2 100Mbps ethernet cards send me an > email? I have access to them now and can ship soon. > > Peace... Sridhar > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 38 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:32:12 -0800 (PDT) > From: Brian Chase > To: Classic Computer Talk > Subject: Re: SGI Discussions? > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On 18 Jan 2003, David Holland wrote: > > > Wot about SGI Crimson's? (Or in my case, a Power Series frame, w/ > > Crimson boards in it) Or are they too new (and LARGE :-) ) for the > > list? > > Pfft! You call that large!? There are plenty of folks on this list > who'd mock the relatively dainty size of the SGI Power Series frames. > There are people on the list with IBM mainframes, PDP-10s, big VAXen, > and a few Crays. > > > (Now for the possibly Off List questions of my post) > > > > I'd like to get hold of a Reality Engine for it as mine (alas) only has > > a VGXT boardset. Anyone know where I could find one? > > > > I'd also be interested if anyone has interfaced a Sun Type 5 mouse to > > it, as they look like they use the same protocol, just one is +5v > logic, > > the other is RS232? (Maxim's MAX232's sound vaguely useful, but > they're > > hard to find around here in 1sie 2sie counts) > > > > (The optical mouse I have for it is in too bad a shape to be really > > usable anymore - the felts shot, and it sticks to the metal plate/mouse > > pad too much for my tastes.) > > I'll see if we have any spare older mice. I know at least with the Indy > and Indigo2s onward they all used regular PS/2 mice. I'm not sure about > the Onyx systems, or the gear predating the mid-1990s time frame. My > introduction to SGI equipment came around 1994 or so. > > About a year ago my employer returned several pallets worth of Indigo2s > and Indys (~80-100 systems) to SGI for trade ins on Octane2s. It took > about 6 months for SGI to even bother to come and pick them up. I've a > feeling they all ended up being dumpstered once they got back to SGI. > Saving them was out of the question as a list of serial numbers had been > given to SGI; because they were trade ins, they actually had to be > traded in. It's too bad. > > On another note, perhaps more related to the list, the new building that > the Computer History Museum is moving into is actually the old SGI > headquarters on Shoreline Dr. in Mountain View. It's a lovely building; > I can't wait until they get things prettied up and moved into the new > location. > > -brian. > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 39 > From: "Antonio Carlini" > To: > Subject: RE: VXT X terminal question > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 20:51:41 -0000 > Organization: me@home > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > > Well, the enclosure is the same. It is only a set of additional > > connectors on the back an internal cabling. At least I interpreted > > pictures of a VAX4k105 this way. But all I need is the pinout. > > Building some cables is no problem and I have a QBus backplane > > from a dead and rotten BA23. > > I have a UV3100-90 and I've been close to a VAX 4000-100 (it > just wasn't mine). The VAX 4000-100 enclosure has a distinctive > sloping part at the back which houses the Qbus (and DSSI?) > connectors. I didn't get to look closely enough to see whether > this housing is an add-on to the UV3100-90 enclosure or the whole > case is a manufacturing modification of that enclosure. Either way, > the standard shipping UV3100-90 enclosure does not have anywhere > for Qbus and DSSI connectors. > > I'll look for pinouts if I can dig up the right docs. > > Antonio > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 40 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:04:54 -0500 (EST) > From: "r. 'bear' stricklin" > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Musings on BabyVAX video > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Doc Shipley wrote: > > > I'll look when I get home (next month), but I'm pretty sure one of my > > VS3100 m38 machines was labelled SPX from the factory. > > I just hauled home an m38 that had... an SPX installed. Right after I > bought an SPX card for my m76, to replace the GPX in it. The two SPX > cards > are identical in every way (except possibly dustiness). > > ok > r. > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 41 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:08:55 -0500 (EST) > From: "r. 'bear' stricklin" > To: Classic Computer Talk > Subject: Re: SGI Discussions? was Re: Mac SE/30 accessories availability? > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, David Holland wrote: > > > (The optical mouse I have for it is in too bad a shape to be really > > usable anymore - the felts shot, and it sticks to the metal plate/mouse > > pad too much for my tastes.) > > Uh.. > > Or you could go spend $1 on some felt and glue at the craft store, and > fix > it. > > ok > r. > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 42 > Subject: RE: VXT X terminal question > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:14:35 +0100 > From: "Fred N. van Kempen" > To: > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > All, > > Although I have both the M38 and M76 set up, I cant get the video > part to work - tube (that is on a VXT2000 right now) doesn't seem > to sync on either model. The M38 is standard, the M76 is the SPX > model. Anyone have a clue? > > --fred > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 43 > Subject: Apple 1 schematics > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:22:30 -0500 > From: chris > To: "Classic Computer" > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > In reading my copy of Collectible Microcomputers (yes yes, you all get it > by now, I like the book... ok, I'll stop refering to it after this)... I > noticed in the Apple Computer section a mention of how Apple's first > customers were the folks that got schematics for the Apple 1 when it was > first shown at Home Brew. > > Although I already knew that they alledgedly gave out schematics... I > began to wonder A: did they really (probably) and B: do any copies exist > anywhere? > > I thought it might be a fun project to try an build an Apple 1 from the > schematics... just as the first users probably did. So, does anyone know > if they are available, or does anyone have a copy and might want to send > me a set? Or are copies just as elusive as the Apple 1 itself and there > is no shot in ever getting them. > > -chris > > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 44 > Subject: RE: VXT X terminal question > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:23:32 +0100 > From: "Fred N. van Kempen" > To: > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Jochen writes: > > > Someone on the PUPS / TUHS list has ported 4.3BSD-Tahoe and / or > > 4.3BSD-Reno to the VAX4000-7xx. AFAIK he had some porblems with > > interrupts at autoconfig time, but got it running. > Heh. This is not too hard, but *only* if he used the machine with > a KFQSA (DSSI-to-MSCP) controller, rather than the onboard SHAC. > > It'd be a start, though. Michael, was this you? > > --fred > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 45 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 03 13:44:31 PST > From: msokolov@ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: VXT X terminal question > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > > Someone on the PUPS / TUHS list has ported 4.3BSD-Tahoe and / or > > > 4.3BSD-Reno to the VAX4000-7xx. AFAIK he had some porblems with > > > interrupts at autoconfig time, but got it running. > > Heh. This is not too hard, but *only* if he used the machine with > > a KFQSA (DSSI-to-MSCP) controller, rather than the onboard SHAC. > > > > It'd be a start, though. Michael, was this you? > > Not me. My 4.3BSD suffix is Quasijarus, not Tahoe or Reno. But my opinion > > on > SHAC is radically different from yours. SHAC is a darling beauty. It is a > problem only for cheap OSes like NutBSD and Linsux. Since SHAC is a true > CI > host adapter with the true Generic VAX Port (GVP) it is perfectly > supported > by > the SCA CI port driver present in every proper VAX OS with SCA such as > Ultrix. > Although DEC killed VAX Ultrix before MicroVAXen with SHAC came about, > source > examination shows that the Ultrix V4.20 CI port driver supports SHAC (on > XMI). > Some day I will lift the SCA code wholesale from Ultrix and plop it into > 4.3BSD-Quasijarus. > > MS > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 46 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:13:56 -0800 (PST) > Subject: Re: Apple 1 schematics > From: "Eric Smith" > To: > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > chris asks about Apple I schematics. > > Although I already knew that they alledgedly gave out schematics... I > > began to wonder A: did they really (probably) and B: do any copies > exist > > anywhere? > > A: Yes. > B: Google is your friend. > > > I thought it might be a fun project to try an build an Apple 1 from the > > schematics... > > It's *extremely* difficult to find some of the Apple I parts, which have > been out of production for over years. Particularly the seven 1024-bit > MOS shift registers, and one hex-40-bit MOS shift register. > > > just as the first users probably did. > > Not quite, since they had a PCB. (Unless you plan to lay out a PCB > yourself.) > > > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 47 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:16:19 +0000 > From: John Honniball > Organization: Stoke Gifford Computer Museum > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Got the second batch of -11 equipment > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Bill Bradford wrote: > > Anybody want two RL02s (by the way, how the hell do I get the top > covers > > open? The "switch" on the top wont budge), and two RL01s? > > If the RL02s are like the RL01, there's a little metal panel on the > side, near the "switch". Unscrew that, and you should see the solenoid > interlock mechanism. Fiddle with that, and the "switch" should open > the top cover. > > You'll need to lock the heads down if you're going to ship the drives. > There's a little metal flap below the head carriage, visible with the > top cover open and no pack in the drive. A single screw holds it in the > "open" position. Loosen the screw, turn the flap 90 degrees, then > tighten the screw. The flap is now in front of the head carriage, > preventing it from moving. > > > Pickup in Austin, Texas.. > > I know someone here in Bristol who'd take the RL02s, if they weren't > so far away. > > -- > John Honniball > coredump@gifford.co.uk > > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 48 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:19:34 +0000 > From: John Honniball > Organization: Stoke Gifford Computer Museum > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Apple 1 schematics > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > chris wrote: > > Although I already knew that they alledgedly gave out schematics... I > > began to wonder A: did they really (probably) and B: do any copies > exist > > anywhere? > > Parts of the Apple I schematics are shown in the second edition of > "Fire In The Valley". Not enought to build a complete replica, > though. You can see, however, that there's an option for installing > either a 6502 CPU or a 6800. > > -- > John Honniball > coredump@gifford.co.uk > > > > > End of cctech Digest > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003 > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003 > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com End of cctech Digest --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003 From philip at awale.qc.ca Wed Jan 22 00:17:44 2003 From: philip at awale.qc.ca (philip@awale.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:56 2005 Subject: About Electronics Questions In-Reply-To: <200301172207.OAA21669@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On 17-Jan-2003 Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Hi > Your questions about caps in old amps are surely > OT. The PIC stuff is at least close. Still for both > of these, there are better place. It sounds like > you've not even researched News Groups. > 'rec.antiques.radio&phono' is surely a better place > for your amplifier question and groups like > 'comp.arch.embedded.piclist' would surely be a better > place for your pic questions. > Why, when there are plenty of other resourses that > are better, would you think that OT subjects are > OK to dump on this list that is suppose to be dedicated > to old computers. > This isn't the only resourse on the net. > Dwight I agree with you. I don't think the two subjects I mentioned should be discussed on classiccmp. I asked about them to see where other folks thought I should go looking. Word of mouth referal to resources, if you will. Probably the best way to find the Good Stuff on the net. -Philip From shawnmhoffman at yahoo.com Wed Jan 22 00:18:51 2003 From: shawnmhoffman at yahoo.com (Shawn H.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:56 2005 Subject: more free stuff In-Reply-To: <20030120.201246.-24291.1.loedman1@juno.com> Message-ID: <20030121205625.24511.qmail@web12304.mail.yahoo.com> Hey Rich, If nobody has taken these parts yet, I'll take them. Do you know if they work? How much do you want for shipping? ~Shawn Hoffman loedman1@juno.com wrote:Available cards (1) Genoa Systems Windows VGA Mod# 8500VL Rev:A " " Rev:G " " Phantom 32 Mod# 8900VL Rev:A (2) Audio PCI 9722 Sound Card (3) Creative Labs CT6030 Video Spigot for Windows (4) Media Vision Pro Graphics 1024 (5) BIBM-VIDE-500X Video DCI tv (6) Headland Technology VRAM 2 (1991) 650-0218-blank (7) Sigma Designs ReelMagic CD Rev:A1 (8) Spider Graphics Spider 64VLB (9) Seattle Computer Ram+(plus) SCP130C (four banks installed) Free to a good home ;-) More to follow, as I get the time Rich Stephenson loedman1@juno.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030122/1013f9d4/attachment.html From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Jan 22 00:20:35 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:56 2005 Subject: For trade In-Reply-To: <000901c2c1dc$95d62340$0264640a@auradon.com> Message-ID: <001d01c2c1de$15b37c60$e242cd18@D73KSM11> Hi: Do you have any idea whether the 5114 works? -W > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Sue & Francois > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:08 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: For trade > > > Hi gang, > I need to make room (don't we all) > I have a 5110, 5103, 5114 trio with documentation. > The 5110 is believed to be non-working, I get garbage on the > display when turned on. The display changes when switches a > toggled but I was unable to get it to behave like a normal > computer. I have a troubbleshooting guide that when followed > says replace video card (Got a spare?). I have a bunch of > documentation for it and a few floppies. I think it is a 32K > basic system (no tape). I would love to replace it with * W0W > RaRe*(TM) flavors of pocket computers or programmable > calculator (c programmable like the casio 2000 currently on > ebay with the 3 1/2 disk interface would be very sweet, HP > 16c would be nice too). Or other cool small items I'm also > into console collecting( 3do, CDI, CDx, Lynx, jaguar) ... I > am pretty open to any suggestions or offers. Of course you > would have to pick up shipping from Minnesota (hefty given > the size of the disk drive and the printer) I will gladly > forward pictures to any interested party. Thank you Francois > PS: I will not separate the items. > ---------------------------- > Because you know how to operate a vehicle doesn't necessarily > mean that you know how to drive.... > > From n8uhn at yahoo.com Wed Jan 22 00:31:43 2003 From: n8uhn at yahoo.com (Bill Allen Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:56 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? Message-ID: <20030122063428.81284.qmail@web40711.mail.yahoo.com> i usually use a vacuum cleaner (a 30+ year old kingston canister) and a long brush made for ceramic/pottery cleaning and painting. the brush has a foot long handle and a 1 inch wide bruch - perfact for most places. the round brush vac attachment is good for cabinent's and the like but i don't use it on boards (static reasons). i do use oil less and oil filled air compressers,but after the compresser i have an air dryer going into a regulator. the regulator keeps the extra and non extra chips on the board ;-) as long as you use the plastic "bowl" inline drier (around 40 - 50 us dollars) it will keep the oil/water out of the regulator and off of your equipment. i use the vac/brush the most and save the air rig for the really tough job's and spots. Bill Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:46:59 +0100 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: What's better than canned air? Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org On Tue, Jan 21, 2003 at 05:27:49AM -0600, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > Discuss, please. What do *you* use instead of consumer canned air? - Brush and vacuum cleaner. - Compressor. Use one that runs without oil. Some compressors need oil to run and are "contaminating" the air with it. Somtimes there are litle extra devices on the compressor to put a bit of oil into the air. Air driven machines need it. But it is not good for electronics. - Sometimes warm water and a brush to "simulate" a dishwasher. See the endless dishwasher discussion. Soak PCBs after washing in Isoprop and let it dry for some days. -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Wed Jan 22 00:38:00 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:56 2005 Subject: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape Message-ID: <0301220641.AA08278@ivan.Harhan.ORG> jwillis@dahmer.vistech.net wrote: > Does anyone know of a source for Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape? (TU80) Anyone with a 9-track tape unit (I'm sure there are plenty such people on this list) should be able to write you a set of tapes from the images on my FTP site. There is even a FORMAT.1600 file there telling you what to put on which tape and in which order. A friend of mine is holding a working TU81 for me and while I would love to get it operational, I don't feel like bringing it into this apartment, especially since I may have to move again in 6 months... MS From jwillis at arielusa.com Wed Jan 22 00:48:00 2003 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:56 2005 Subject: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB740@deathstar.arielnet.com> Awesome. I don't have the drive yet, but it seems to me to be the best option for getting BSD loaded on my VAX 11/750. Apologies if this is coming through as MIME. Micro$haft outlook web access won't let me set plain text. Thanks again, John W. -----Original Message----- From: Michael Sokolov Sent: Tue 1/21/2003 11:41 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: Subject: Re: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape jwillis@dahmer.vistech.net wrote: > Does anyone know of a source for Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape? (TU80) Anyone with a 9-track tape unit (I'm sure there are plenty such people on this list) should be able to write you a set of tapes from the images on my FTP site. There is even a FORMAT.1600 file there telling you what to put on which tape and in which order. A friend of mine is holding a working TU81 for me and while I would love to get it operational, I don't feel like bringing it into this apartment, especially since I may have to move again in 6 months... MS -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 4422 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030122/8f0f8e89/attachment.bin From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Wed Jan 22 01:01:00 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:56 2005 Subject: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape Message-ID: <0301220704.AA08326@ivan.Harhan.ORG> "John Willis" wrote: > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2C1E2.BE18F359 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="utf-8" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 > > QXdlc29tZS4gSSBkb24ndCBoYXZlIHRoZSBkcml2ZSB5ZXQsIGJ1dCBpdCBzZWVtcyB0byBtZSB0 > byBiZSB0aGUgYmVzdA0Kb3B0aW9uIGZvciBnZXR0aW5nIEJTRCBsb2FkZWQgb24gbXkgVkFYIDEx > Lzc1MC4NCiANCkFwb2xvZ2llcyBpZiB0aGlzIGlzIGNvbWluZyB0aHJvdWdoIGFzIE1JTUUuIE1p > Y3JvJGhhZnQgb3V0bG9vayB3ZWINCmFjY2VzcyB3b24ndCBsZXQgbWUgc2V0IA0KcGxhaW4gdGV4 > dC4NCiANClRoYW5rcyBhZ2FpbiwNCkpvaG4gVy4NCg0KCS0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0t > LS0tIA0KCUZyb206IE1pY2hhZWwgU29rb2xvdiANCglTZW50OiBUdWUgMS8yMS8yMDAzIDExOjQx > IFBNIA0KCVRvOiBjY3RhbGtAY2xhc3NpY2NtcC5vcmcgDQoJQ2M6IA0KCVN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBR > [...] > [rest of garbage stripped] Would you mind writing in ASCII so that people using Classic Computers can read it? I have no idea what you've wrote as I can't read it. MS From msspcva at yahoo.com Wed Jan 22 01:11:01 2003 From: msspcva at yahoo.com (Clayton Frank Helvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:56 2005 Subject: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape In-Reply-To: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB740@deathstar.arielnet.com> Message-ID: <20030122071400.94892.qmail@web41101.mail.yahoo.com> Mike, FYI this is what John wrote... --- John Willis wrote: > Awesome. I don't have the drive yet, but it seems to > me to be the best > option for getting BSD loaded on my VAX 11/750. > > Apologies if this is coming through as MIME. > Micro$haft outlook web > access won't let me set > plain text. > > Thanks again, > John W. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Sokolov > Sent: Tue 1/21/2003 11:41 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Cc: > Subject: Re: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape > > > > jwillis@dahmer.vistech.net wrote: > > > Does anyone know of a source for Quasijarus > 4.3BSD on 1600bpi > magtape? (TU80) > > Anyone with a 9-track tape unit (I'm sure there are > plenty such > people on this > list) should be able to write you a set of tapes > from the images > on my FTP > site. There is even a FORMAT.1600 file there > telling you what to > put on which > tape and in which order. > > A friend of mine is holding a working TU81 for me > and while I > would love to get > it operational, I don't feel like bringing it into > this > apartment, especially > since I may have to move again in 6 months... > > MS > > > > ATTACHMENT part 2 application/ms-tnef name=winmail.dat ===== = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= Clayton Frank Helvey, President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com ============================================================ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 22 01:17:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: Heathkit H-11A (LSI-11) on eBay In-Reply-To: <200301220557.XAA01591@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20030122072022.1066.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- lemay@cs.umn.edu wrote: > > > > Does anyone on the list have any PDP-11 papertape? I don't mind > > image files of the data - I have punches and blank tape. > > > > -ethan > > No, but if anyone is feeling particularily insane or rich, I'll sell > a Heathkit H10 paper tape system for $1000 ;) I dont have anything I > can use it with. > > -Lawrence LeMay Sorry... not that rich. Got the H-11 with H-27. Would _like_ an H-10. In its place, I was considering using this PRS04 I got with an 11/34... it's a "portable" (has a handle and everything) paper tape reader that had a small niche to fill... when diags still came on paper tape, but people had VT52s as consoles, not TTYs. It plugs into the wall for 110VAC to run the motor and electronics, and has a male and female Mate-and-Lock connector to wedge into the console current loop... kind of an add-on reader accessory. ISTR it expects 2400 bps. I was expecting to use some flavor of DL11 and a VT220 or VT52 (I have both EIA and 20mA interface cards for the VT52) with the H-11 if I ended up resorting to paper tape. Alternatively, with bigger boxes, I have a PC05 and Unibus interface. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Jan 22 01:19:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: PET 2001 Oddity 6550 Unobtainiums In-Reply-To: <099F935BC4E3B941984DED87DE9B482F0844ED@EPS-exchange.eps.sec.int.net> References: <099F935BC4E3B941984DED87DE9B482F0844ED@EPS-exchange.eps.sec.int.net> Message-ID: <32913.64.169.63.74.1043220076.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Thanks for the input. My problem with the "Unobtainiums" is that not > only > were they MOSTEK chips with their > own pinout, No, they aren't! They were made by MOS Technology, which was NOT the same company as Mostek. Mostek made SRAMs (but not the 6550), DRAMs, masked ROMs, and second-sourced the Z80, F8, and 68000 families. The also made a lot of telecom chips, like DTMF encoders. They were acquired by Thomson, and are now part of ST Micro. MOS Technology made calculator chips, 65xx microprocessors and peripheral chips, masked ROMs, and static RAMs. They were acquired by Commodore, and when Commodore folded they basically ceased to exist. (Someone must own the rights to the MOS Technology stuff, but it's not obvious who.) From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Wed Jan 22 01:32:00 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape Message-ID: <0301220735.AA08373@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Clayton Frank Helvey wrote: > Mike, FYI this is what John wrote... Thanks for translating! John Willis wrote: > Awesome. I don't have the drive yet, but it seems to > me to be the best > option for getting BSD loaded on my VAX 11/750. It's the only proper way! Are you going to load the copy and boot standalone programs from the first file on the magtape or from TU58? The first option is obviously easier, although I do have an image from which you can write the BSD install TU58. But if you are going with the first option, your tape drive on the 750 must be non-TMSCP, as there is no toggle-in bootstrap for TMSCP. Also in 4.3-QJ0a I've added two blocks for MicroVAX booting in front of the first file on the dist tape, but didn't update the Installing and Operating manual, so when you follow the instructions in Appendix B for your tape flavor, mentally increment by 2 the number of times you type "S 200". MS From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 22 01:39:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: Any Cromemco USERS? In-Reply-To: <01C2C0A3.675F5B60@mse-d03> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, M H Stein wrote: > If that System/One has the 5Mb IMI drive, as most of them did, those > drives had a very common problem with the index sensor moving, very easy > to adjust. If & when I send you that pile of books & manuals, I'll > include a copy of the relevant service bulletin, in case you feel like > looking at it some day. Gonna copy it right now and add it to the pile > before I forget. That would be great. I decided that the hard drive in that machine would be the first one I attempt to do a mechanical recovery on using the methods discussed on the list a long while back (amateur clean-room chamber). If, as you say, it's merely an adjustment then all the better. Thanks! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 22 01:54:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: KayPro II with original boxes Message-ID: Here is someone in Milo, Maine, with a KayPro II and all the trimmings. Please contact the original sender. Reply-to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 15:46:41 -0500 From: Tinker To: Vintage Computer Festival Subject: Re: K_PRO II X I have a K Pro 11 x with all disks and books as well as the daisy wheel printer plus the boxes they came in. Any interest in them. Its in Milo, Maine. o4463 -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jan 22 01:58:53 2003 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: Intel 8751 In-Reply-To: <200301210912.JAA23704@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 04:12 AM, Stan Barr wrote: > Thanks for all the info everyone. > > I have some info on the 8051 somewhere so I'll dig that out. > > I don't know if I'll actually be doing anything with them but its > nice to know what they are, and they could come in handy. > > (They're ceramic package with a rectangular quartz window BTW) These are good little processors. Some folks don't care for the instruction set, but I like it ok. I'm making my living these days doing embedded systems development on [mostly] 8051-series processors. They're kinda an "old standby"...they never let me down. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "Wear whatever you want...Just don't be surprised St. Petersburg, FL if you wind up with a blow-gun dart in your prosthetic boobies." -Kurt Huhn From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 22 02:26:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: KayPro II with original boxes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030122082941.31151.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Here is someone in Milo, Maine, with a KayPro II and all the trimmings. > Please contact the original sender. Amazing... My Dad lives in Milo... -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 22 02:37:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape In-Reply-To: <0301220735.AA08373@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <20030122084028.11373.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Michael Sokolov wrote: > Clayton Frank Helvey wrote: > > > Mike, FYI this is what John wrote... > > Thanks for translating! > > John Willis wrote: > > > Awesome. I don't have the drive yet, but it seems to > > me to be the best > > option for getting BSD loaded on my VAX 11/750. > > It's the only proper way! > > Are you going to load the copy and boot standalone programs from the > first file on the magtape or from TU58? The first option is obviously > easier... And historically common for VAXen (not for PDP-11s... see below...) > ... although I do have an image from which you can write the BSD install > TU58. That'd be handy, even if you have to use a TU58 emulator (there are several, hardware based and software based). > But if you are going with the first option, your tape drive on the 750 > must be non-TMSCP, as there is no toggle-in bootstrap for TMSCP. Is there a "toggle-in" VAX bootstrap for a TS-11 or TU-80 or for anything for that matter? Between 1984 and 1994, I installed a lot of operating systems on PDP-11s and VAXen, and my experience is that for VAXen, the magtapes were never bootable - you booted a console floppy/tape/disk pack/whatever that had drivers for pre-TMSCP tape drives (MT and MS) and you told the standalone programs which disk to copy to and which tape to copy from (our primary machine at work had a MASSBUS-attached TU-78 and a Unibus-attached TU80 - I kept the TU-80 ;-) In the case of PDP-11s, the magtapes _were_ typically bootable - you had to grab either an MT or MS-aware tape before beginning. This goes for DEC stuff like RSX and RSTS as well as 2.9BSD, the PDP-11 Unix I have the most experience with. Things changed a bit with MicroVAXen - early OS kits assumed RX50, later ones assumed TK50, but never magtape. > I've added two blocks for MicroVAX booting in front of the first file on > the dist tape, but didn't update the Installing and Operating manual... You will probably have to cruft up something close to that, but one aware of the 11/750 if you are going to make a bootable magtape. Never seen it done, but that doesn't mean that it _can't_ be done (with a little extra work). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jan 22 02:45:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: PET 2001 Oddity 6550 Unobtainiums In-Reply-To: Kevin Andres "RE: PET 2001 Oddity 6550 Unobtainiums" (Jan 21, 8:39) References: <099F935BC4E3B941984DED87DE9B482F0844ED@EPS-exchange.eps.sec.int.net> Message-ID: <10301220845.ZM1456@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> If people are replying to this thread, could they PLEASE TRIM what they quote. I got a pile of messages, all exceeding 50K bytes, and I really don't need the whole digest (which is what's on the botom of the message). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From deano at rattie.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 22 02:53:00 2003 From: deano at rattie.demon.co.uk (Deano Calver) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: amstrad pcw available References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030120230054.01aacc88@mail.mosthosts.com> <3E2DD40C.6070708@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <11fb01c2c1f4$615b9c90$2000a8c0@hal> You can also get some games for it, I have Hitch Hikers Guide To The Galaxy on 3" disk for PCW. Bye, Deano Dean Calver, Eclipse Studio Ltd. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Honniball" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 11:13 PM Subject: Re: amstrad pcw available > Rob O'Donnell wrote: > > Hi.. is an Amstrad PCW (8512 I think) c/w printer of interest to > > anybody. From memory, it's a CP/M machine, > > Yes, that's right. Also ran LocoScript, a wordprocessing package. > Z80 processor and 512k of memory. > > > but uses stupid little 3" discs (not 3.5") > > I have a C compiler somewhere for CP/M on those disks. Got a bunch of > them at a car boot sale. The sellers thought I was nuts, selecting > all the funny-sized disks out of a mixed pile of 3" and 3.5". > > > and originally came with a boot-up-into-wordprocessor disc... > > Right, that's LocoScript. > > > It's currently in my neigbours front yard waiting for the bin men, but > > I've a mind to rescue it. > > Go on, you know you want to! > > -- > John Honniball > coredump@gifford.co.uk > From fernande at internet1.net Wed Jan 22 03:56:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? In-Reply-To: <10301212123.ZM549@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <00be01c2c15b$06cf2a60$020010ac@k4jcw> <002501c2c160$fb1e8de0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3E2D90FE.2010201@internet1.net> <10301212123.ZM549@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3E2E6B51.4000804@internet1.net> pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: > On some boards, you might just damage something. That's certainly too high > for relay coils and such. You stand a good chance of ripping off labels, > too. More importantly, if it does rip something off, or frees some grit, > the debris will come flying off at high speed, which is rather dangerous. > Of course, it all depends on how far he nozzle is from the board. > However, if you're holding it some distance away to reduce the pressure, > you'd save air and electricity by lowering the pressure instead. In my case this takes place in the garage. Plus, I've yet to encounter anything that I'd be afraid of flying and hitting something. The most delicate item I've cleaned is probably a floppy drive. I don't hit the head, or greased parts with a full 80psi. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Wed Jan 22 04:00:01 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: Help for Obedient Husbands (was: Free stuff) In-Reply-To: <20030121.192938.-130809.2.loedman1@juno.com> References: <20030121.192938.-130809.2.loedman1@juno.com> Message-ID: <3E2E6C2F.6050801@internet1.net> loedman1@juno.com wrote: > My collection of computers and related parts currently fills two bedrooms > of a three bedroom house and is now extending into the front room. My > Wife has earned the capital W by doing nothing more than sighing softly > as I enter the house with my latest treasures. The only time she ever > complained was when I was porting a set of Olds 455 heads in the front > room (Hey it was cold outside ) > > > Rich Wow, I think I'd get mad too if your were porting heads in my living room :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From tim.myers at sunplan.com Wed Jan 22 04:15:00 2003 From: tim.myers at sunplan.com (Tim Myers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: Slightly OT: Need a new touchscreen for an Apple MP2x00 Message-ID: <000001c2c1ff$389befc0$0201000a@thornton.protasis.co.uk> HI, Anyone know where I can source the resistive touchpad element for an Apple Messagepad 2x00 from? Tim. From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Wed Jan 22 05:10:02 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: Heathkit H-11A (LSI-11) on eBay References: <20030121223213.29278.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E2E7C36.6070606@Vishay.com> I have a couple of pounds of paper tapes, but no reader. Some of the tapes (DECish blue) may be -11 diagnostics or other software and may even be labelled in human-readable form, some are just samples to show to somebody who just asked "huh, what, papertape?". Also, some RK05 platters assumed to contain diags (XXDP+, IIRC), but no drives any more. Shouldn't have given them away, really! :-( Are you looking for anything in particular? Ethan Dicks wrote: > Does anyone on the list have any PDP-11 papertape? I don't mind > image files of the data - I have punches and blank tape. > > -ethan -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jan 22 06:02:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: Replies to posts In-Reply-To: <20030122062035.29959.98710.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20030122120527.34617.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com> hi all... A request: can people please stop including the whole of the digest when replying to posts? The digest-in-a-digest mode is starting to get a little annoying :-) cheers Jules __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From fauradon at frontiernet.net Wed Jan 22 06:04:02 2003 From: fauradon at frontiernet.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: For trade References: <001d01c2c1de$15b37c60$e242cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <002401c2c21f$6e979dc0$0264640a@auradon.com> Hi, Sine the main unit is inoperandus, I do not a way to test the 5114, I guess I would have to assume that it is not working. To answer other questions and concerns that other members of the list have sent me: Yes I am aware of the value of the unit. No I will not take a Broken Sega Game gear in trade.:) Actually I probably would not take a working GameGear either:) It would have to be a somewhat hard to find item or a fairly complete collection of less hard to find itemsI am not looking at making a profit, but I will not give it away either. I already gave one similar system away (the working one :) .. And last but not least: Yes I can hang onto it until someone comes to pick it up. That actually would be fun since I'd get to meet another member of the list and will be able to brag about the rest of the collection (220 strong :) Thank you all for your interest. Francois ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne M. Smith" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:18 PM Subject: RE: For trade > Hi: > > Do you have any idea whether the 5114 works? > > -W > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Sue & Francois > > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:08 PM > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: For trade > > > > > > Hi gang, > > I need to make room (don't we all) > > I have a 5110, 5103, 5114 trio with documentation. > > The 5110 is believed to be non-working, I get garbage on the > > display when turned on. The display changes when switches a > > toggled but I was unable to get it to behave like a normal > > computer. I have a troubbleshooting guide that when followed > > says replace video card (Got a spare?). I have a bunch of > > documentation for it and a few floppies. I think it is a 32K > > basic system (no tape). I would love to replace it with * W0W > > RaRe*(TM) flavors of pocket computers or programmable > > calculator (c programmable like the casio 2000 currently on > > ebay with the 3 1/2 disk interface would be very sweet, HP > > 16c would be nice too). Or other cool small items I'm also > > into console collecting( 3do, CDI, CDx, Lynx, jaguar) ... I > > am pretty open to any suggestions or offers. Of course you > > would have to pick up shipping from Minnesota (hefty given > > the size of the disk drive and the printer) I will gladly > > forward pictures to any interested party. Thank you Francois > > PS: I will not separate the items. > > ---------------------------- > > Because you know how to operate a vehicle doesn't necessarily > > mean that you know how to drive.... > > > > > > > > From Arno_1983 at gmx.de Wed Jan 22 07:04:01 2003 From: Arno_1983 at gmx.de (Arno Kletzander) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: A way to erase OTP components? Message-ID: <22257.1043240830@www65.gmx.net> Hello everybody, this is something I've been wondering about for some time now. Perhaps here is the place to ask, since it's about one of the "inner secrets of silicon": Tony Duell wrote: > The 8751 is the EPROM version of the 8051 microcontroller. It's otherwise > identical to it. > > If it's in a ceramic package with a quartz window, then you can erase it > like any other EPROM and reprogram it. If it's in the plastic package, > then it's the OTP version. If in fact the same die was used in both components, then it's only the plastic (which is impenetrable to the commonly-used ultra-violet light) that prevents the OTP variant from being erased and reprogrammed. However, there are kinds of radiation similar to light which *will* penetrate the plastic housing...you see where this goes? Will the memory be erased when you, say, X-ray the OTP component, will it stay unaffected, or is the thing just going to die? (just outta curiosity) Arno Kletzander -- +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++ NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr f?r 1 ct/ Min. surfen! From Gary.Messick at itt.com Wed Jan 22 07:42:00 2003 From: Gary.Messick at itt.com (Messick, Gary) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: Heathkit H-11A (LSI-11) on eBay Message-ID: <998FEBD9C16DD211881200A0C9D61AD704468C4A@ACDFWX3.acd.de.ittind.com> > From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:erd_6502@yahoo.com] > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:32 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Heathkit H-11A (LSI-11) on eBay > > > > --- Steve Jones wrote: > > Be interesting to see what happens with this: Heathkit H-11A > > (DEC LSI-11) with no peripherals but lots of manuals and some > > software on paper tape and 8" floppy. > > Wish I had the docs... got the box, but virtually nothing on paper. Ethan, as you probably know I have an almost complete set of Docs for my H-11. I have all the peripheral cards manuals, HT-11 V2 Docs (Maybe even V1.) H-27 disk system with docs, and HT-11 disks. I haven't got it back running yet (haven't had time lately.) so I don't know the state of the disks. If anyone needs any manual scans, or other info on the H-11, drop me a line, I'd be happy to help. I DID throw away my H-10 punch, and all the software/docs when I got my disk. DOH! Live and learn! > > I do have at least one unassembled Heath I/O card (and several that > _are_ assembled). > > Gotta spend some time twiddling with the H27 disk controller. I > _think_ I have it sussed out at last. It works fine with an RXV11 > and an RX01, but I've had nothing but troubles getting the Heath > disks working. > > > Hey, the Buy It Now price is a very reasonable US$6,900! ;^) > > Hold me back! :-) > > I notice that the bid is nearly up to $1K. > > Does anyone on the list have any PDP-11 papertape? I don't mind > image files of the data - I have punches and blank tape. > > -ethan > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > ************************************ If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the addressee, please note that this message may contain ITT Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. You should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of ITT is neither endorsed by nor attributable to ITT. ************************************ From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Wed Jan 22 08:48:00 2003 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: Any Cromemco USERS? In-Reply-To: <01C2C0A3.5F48BD40@mse-d03> Message-ID: > > Just curious; is anybody actually using a Cromemco system > > out there, running either CDOS, Cromix or Unix? Or does > > anyone at least have one in running condition? > > I have an IMSAI chassis stuffed with cromemco boards. I run CP/M > on it... but I don't think there would be a reason it wouldn't run > a cromemco OS. It has a CPUZ, a 16FDC, a 64KZ and a TU-ART in it. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > No, unless there are some unusual mods, I'd think that a set of > Cromemco boards would run a Cromemco OS just fine. BTW, I > assume you mean a ZPU? Yes, I confused myself. > I'd be interested in knowing how you got CP/M onto the Cromix > diskettes and configured for its memory model? The hard way (and the fun way)! I wrote my own CBIOS, bootstrap, and a program to format a diskette, cross-compiled on a modern intel box, wrote a program to massage the compiler output into a text stream that the ROM monitor on the 16FDC would like and then used the monitor to run the formatter. Finally, pumped over the bootstrap, CP/M and my CBIOS and used the sector write facility of the 16FDC ROM to write the whole thing to a diskette a sector at a time. It was very gratifying when the sucker booted up the first time. > TM100 drive(s) I assume? Actually, a pair of SA-851s. > Just wanna swap tales I guess. Something about the 16FDC doesn't play nice with the IMSAI front panel. You can't deposit or examine memory with it on the bus. Even with the schematics, I don't see what the problem is. Do you know a solution by any chance? From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Wed Jan 22 08:58:00 2003 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: Any Cromemco USERS? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Replace "compiled" with "assembled" in the previous message. I don't know where my brain is this morning. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Jan 22 09:05:01 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: Heathkit H-11A (LSI-11) on eBay In-Reply-To: <200301220557.XAA01591@caesar.cs.umn.edu> References: <20030121223213.29278.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E2EC221.28788.B93D4D8@localhost> > > Does anyone on the list have any PDP-11 papertape? I don't mind > > image files of the data - I have punches and blank tape. > No, but if anyone is feeling particularily insane or rich, I'll sell > a Heathkit H10 paper tape system for $1000 ;) I dont have anything I > can use it with. Well, I love to add a H10 to my H8, but somehow the one(s) and zeros got mixed up in your nibble. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Jan 22 09:06:07 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: Heathkit H-11A (LSI-11) on eBay In-Reply-To: <3E2E7C36.6070606@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <3E2EC221.15251.B93D4E7@localhost> > I have a couple of pounds of paper tapes, but no reader. Some of the > tapes (DECish blue) may be -11 diagnostics or other software and may > even be labelled in human-readable form, some are just samples to show > to somebody who just asked "huh, what, papertape?". > Also, some RK05 platters assumed to contain diags (XXDP+, IIRC), but no > drives any more. Shouldn't have given them away, really! :-( As it looks now, Jochen Kunz may bring a PDP 11 as his exhibition for VCFe - so adding a papertape reader to check out your tapes would just add to the fun. Now all you have to do is come over and get your hands dirty .) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Wed Jan 22 09:14:01 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: Heathkit H-11A (LSI-11) on eBay Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C95A@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Damn, and I had one, complete, a long time ago... threw it out when I finally got a "real" PDP-11. *bonks head against wall* stoopid, stoopid.. --fred > -----Original Message----- > From: Hans Franke [mailto:Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de] > Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 4:09 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Heathkit H-11A (LSI-11) on eBay > > > > > Does anyone on the list have any PDP-11 papertape? I don't mind > > > image files of the data - I have punches and blank tape. > > > No, but if anyone is feeling particularily insane or rich, I'll sell > > a Heathkit H10 paper tape system for $1000 ;) I dont have anything I > > can use it with. > > Well, I love to add a H10 to my H8, but somehow the one(s) > and zeros got mixed up in your nibble. > > Gruss > H. > > -- > VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen > http://www.vcfe.org/ > From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Wed Jan 22 09:17:01 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: Digital AXPpci33 "noname" questions References: <20030121224501.57134.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E2EB72D.80A4CD09@comcast.net> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > I'm dusting off this old AXPpci33 motherboard of mine and ran into a few > issues... I'm attempting to upgrade the firmware and I have the file > from the Digital/Compaq/HP web site (Dec 2002 version), but the > instructions don't match my situation.. > I'm pretty sure I successfully used RAWRITE under Windows when I created the disks for my Multia and AXPpci33.... > P.S. - I also can't find any reference to the supported memory > configurations of the AXPpci33 board - I have some parity 16MB > SIMMs, giving me 64MB, but I'd like to use some of these parity > 64MB SIMMs I have here from AIR motherboards (formerly CompuServe > "CompuHosts"). Got a set of 4 ready to go, but it seems that few > boards ever supported 64MB 72-pin memory. :-( IIRC, the AXPpci33 only takes up to 128 MB RAM, 4 32MB sticks... -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From mtapley at swri.edu Wed Jan 22 09:57:00 2003 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX Message-ID: Ade et al, Gotta cast another vote for the 4000 VLC. If you have room for a laptop and an external CD, you probably have room for this VAX. And if you use it to learn VMS, you can (when you can get an 8800, or whatever) charge on ahead to a very asymmetric VAXCluster. Or use it to NetBoot the 8800, etc. I know a guy in Houston, TX who at last count had a "stack" of those with 24M (max) RAM and hard drives with OVMS installed, and for which he's trying to find good homes. I have not mentioned to him the possibility of transatlantic shipping, but let me know if you are interested. And, if you have a lot more money available: (just came up on comp.sys.dec.micro) http://www.aub.nl/vaxsales/ a 3100-85 for 600 (money units not specified) a 3100-80 for 500 both for 1000. Each includes 3 VT510+keyboard. One includes a CD. - Mark From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Jan 22 10:12:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: Xilinx purge this time Message-ID: Thanks for all that asked for EPROMs - I think I could help about half of you guys out. I still have *lots* more, but not many oddballs. Anyway, I have a small pile of FPGAs - (6) Xilinx XC2018-70PC68C and (1) Xilinx XC3042-70PC84C. Pulls, PLCCs, good leads. Anyone need this pile for $6.00 - and that includes shipping ConUS! And yes, I take Paypal. I also have buckets of old Lattice GALs, if anyone wants them cheap, to erase and reuse. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Wed Jan 22 10:46:00 2003 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: Pinout for HP 2629b terminal? Message-ID: <20030122084842.T25853-100000@agora.rdrop.com> subject says it all... Looking for the comm port pinouts. Thanks; -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Wed Jan 22 11:14:00 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape Message-ID: <0301221716.AA08789@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Ethan Dicks wrote: > Is there a "toggle-in" VAX bootstrap for a TS-11 or TU-80 or for > anything for that matter? There are 5 different toggle-in bootstraps. TS-11 is one of them. As I understand it, TU80 looks like a TS-11 to software, so the original enquirer who was asking about TU80 should be all set. > Between 1984 and 1994, I installed a lot of > operating systems on PDP-11s and VAXen, and my experience is that > for VAXen, the magtapes were never bootable - you booted a console > floppy/tape/disk pack/whatever that had drivers for pre-TMSCP > tape drives (MT and MS) and you told the standalone programs which > disk to copy to and which tape to copy from (our primary machine > at work had a MASSBUS-attached TU-78 and a Unibus-attached TU80 - I > kept the TU-80 ;-) That is how it works with DEC OSes. It is also one option with BSD. BSD, however, offers another option, using only the magtape. Of course on the original big VAXen the magtapes were not "bootable", but Appendix B of Installing and Operating 4.3BSD UNIX on the VAX (SMM:1) contains little programs in hex that you can type into memory from the console (called toggle- in programs in reference to toggle switches that predated the console). There is a different version for each kind of tape controller. Each program is to be entered at 200 and run with certain registers manually set to the controller CSR address, etc. Each time you run one of these programs, it reads one 512- byte record from the magtape at 0 and halts. The first file on the 4.3BSD distribution tape had 512-byte records and the first 5 of them were secondary tape bootstraps for different tape controllers. You would run your toggle-in program with S 200 the right number of times to load the right secondary bootstrap and then run the latter with S 0. It would give you a = prompt at which you type the name of the standalone program you want to run. These standalone programs are stored in the first file on the tape after the secondary bootstraps, and the secondary bootstrap programs load them. Between the 5 secondary bootstraps (5 512-byte records) and the tp archive with standalone programs (in the same tape file also with 512-byte records) there were two unused records. I took advantage of this in 4.3BSD-Quasijarus0a to add MicroVAX booting ability to the same tape without breaking the big VAX boot mechanism described above. The MicroVAX tape boot program is 1024 bytes long and neatly fit in the room that was left, but because MicroVAXen boot automatically using their ROMs unlike the manual process above, the MicroVAX boot program had to be first. To satisfy this requirement I simply rearranged the order: now the MicroVAX bootblock is first, followed by the 5 big VAX secondary bootstraps, followed by the tp archive with standalone programs. The big VAX booting mechanism still works with the 4.3-QJ0a tape just like with the original 4.3, the only difference is that because the secondary bootstraps are now two records further down the tape, you type S 200 two more times than the manual says. > Things changed a bit with MicroVAXen - early OS kits assumed RX50, later > ones assumed TK50, but never magtape. To the software there is absolutely no difference between TK50 and magtape as long as both speak TMSCP. TMSCP magtapes are bootable on MicroVAXen just like TK50s. This is the reason why I do not make separate dist tapes for big VAXen and MicroVAXen, the same tape is used for both and you write magtapes and TK50s in exactly the same way from the same files on my FTP site. > > I've added two blocks for MicroVAX booting in front of the first file on > > the dist tape, but didn't update the Installing and Operating manual... > > You will probably have to cruft up something close to that, but one > aware of the 11/750 if you are going to make a bootable magtape. I don't need to cruft anything up: for big VAXen nothing changed except the order of boot blocks, and I simply need to update the manual to increment by 2 the number of times one types S 200. I'll do that in the 4.3-QJ0b release. MS From acme at ao.net Wed Jan 22 11:29:00 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: A plea to classiccmpers Message-ID: <200301221732.MAA06554@eola.ao.net> Greetings to all. I hope no one will take offense to this request. Today in my mail, along with the usual numerous classiccmp posts, were three messages of a very large size. These three messages totalled 275 KB. AFAICT the original post quoted an entire digest, and the replies then quoted the original message in full. Will you please trim your posts? Many list-members pay by the minute for connection time. I myself use legacy micros to handle my mail; multiple large posts cause severe constipation in these boxes . . . TIA, Glen 0/0 From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Jan 22 11:45:01 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: Ressurecting Mac Plus In-Reply-To: <001d01c2c1b0$cf15c330$5b76033e@local.sunplan.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Tim Myers > Sent: 22 January 2003 00:54 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Ressurecting Mac Plus > > > Hi all, > > I've got a Mac Plus I got of Ebay some time ago. Anyone any idea how I > can (legally) obtain an OS for it? I'd like to add a HDD to it; I've an > old 600Mb in an external box lying around, am I going to be able to use > this (even if I only get a 20/40/80Mb partition on it I'm a happy > chicken.). Go to Apple's website and dig down in the downloads section - they've got (or did have last year) all versions of MacOS from v1 up to 7.5. The software license normally says that if you own a Mac you can download the OS. If they haven't got older versions any more I've got 'em all here :) cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Jan 22 11:51:31 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: Followup to Adrian's caption competition In-Reply-To: <002201c2c1b2$ffe878c0$5b76033e@local.sunplan.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Tim Myers > Sent: 22 January 2003 01:10 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Followup to Adrian's caption competition > > > I didn't see this come across the list, so here goes. Apologies if it's > already been covered. > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2301705304 Up until recently you could still buy these brand new from Greenweld Electronics - www.greenweld.co.uk... don't know if they're still available though. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Jan 22 11:56:07 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: Ressurecting Mac Plus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Owen Robertson > Sent: 22 January 2003 02:41 > To: Classic Computer Mailing List > Subject: Re: Ressurecting Mac Plus > > I have images for System 0.97/Finder 1.0 through about System 6.0.1/Finder > 6.1. But you'll need System 3.0/Finder 5.0 or higher for SCSI support, I > think. But System 3 didn't become stable until System 3.2/Finder 5.3. I > would recommend System 6.0.8, the last release of System 6. Although I've > used 7.0 on a Plus without any problems, but you need 2 megs of RAM for > System 7. > > Do you have a system you could use to make a floppy with? When I was hacking around making disks for my Lisa (400K) I started off with a 1.44 floppy in a PC which I used HFVExplorer to copy the disk images onto, then moved the disk to a Mac IIcx which could read 1.44 but not (for some reason) write 400K, so I had to appletalk the images over to a Mac Plus THEN diskcopy 4.2 'em onto a 400K floppy. Painful and slow, but it worked. These days making 800K disks isn't an issue 'cos I've got more old Macs than I know what to do with and a beige G3 on the LAN. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From keith.burke at xilinx.com Wed Jan 22 11:59:53 2003 From: keith.burke at xilinx.com (Keith Burke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: oric - 1 Message-ID: <3E2EA298.50B79A58@xilinx.com> Rob, I read your little piece on the web about your british micros. Do you still own the Oric-1? I used to have one as a kid and now that I'm a computer science graduate I thought I might try and get my hands on my first computer. I've chucked the old one long ago... it gave up on us after a pretty rough time in my house. Do you happen to know where I might find one? Keith -- / 7 /_( |_| |_| |_| |_| /\ /\|=|/ / \ |_| / ) _ \ / |_| \ / -=-o / \ /~\_/ \/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: kburke.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 198 bytes Desc: Card for Keith Burke Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030122/08553cff/kburke.vcf From nerdware at ctgonline.org Wed Jan 22 12:04:01 2003 From: nerdware at ctgonline.org (nerdware@ctgonline.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: Reply to: Slightly OT: Need a new touchscreen for an Apple MP2x00 Message-ID: <200301221425.h0MEPxG07221@garcon.ctgonline.org> Come on over to www.newtontalk.net. Lots of guys with parts sources and the know-how to fix it. Very useful source of info for us Newton guys. You'd be surprised at the amount of development still going on for the Newt... Paul ORIGINAL MESSAGE FOLLOWS: HI, Anyone know where I can source the resistive touchpad element for an Apple Messagepad 2x00 from? Tim. From crl at rti.org Wed Jan 22 12:07:49 2003 From: crl at rti.org (Lindahl, Carl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: VAX VMS Question Message-ID: <4356058381ECB8498BB30B34D7AE3AEF043BB2C8@rtints5.rti.org> Does anyone have a VAX running VMS connected via ethernet to a Cisco 2950 series switch? I have had the VAX connected to a 2900XL series switch for a year with no problem, but in doing upgrades, moving it to the 2950 has caused major character delays, and other problems between the VAX and clients connecting to it. Everything else connected to the switch is working fine. Thanks Carl Lindahl ITS NOC ============== RTI International Ragland Building P.O. Box 12194 RTP, NC 27709 Phone - 919-541-5872 Fax - 919-541-7333 From bill at timeguy.com Wed Jan 22 12:11:38 2003 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: OT: Super Magnets - Don't try this at home! Message-ID: <20030122105106.T61714-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> I wonder if a bunch of those big-ass permanent magnets from hard drives would... Hmm... ;-) --- http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/014/science/Zap_+.shtml "Just by pointing his super-magnets at the right spots on your head, Dr. Alvaro Pascual-Leone can make you go momentarily mute or blind. He can disrupt your working memory or your ability to recognize faces. He can even make it harder for you to say verbs while nouns remain as easy as ever. Weird, yes. Fringe, no." From danielrhicks at hotmail.com Wed Jan 22 12:15:24 2003 From: danielrhicks at hotmail.com (Daniel Hicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: A plea to classiccmpers References: <200301221732.MAA06554@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: Pay by the minute for connection time? You're getting screwed. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 12:32 PM Subject: A plea to classiccmpers > Greetings to all. > > I hope no one will take offense to this request. Today in my mail, along with > the usual numerous classiccmp posts, were three messages of a very > large size. These three messages totalled 275 KB. AFAICT the original post > quoted an entire digest, and the replies then quoted the original message in > full. > > Will you please trim your posts? Many list-members pay by the minute for > connection time. I myself use legacy micros to handle my mail; multiple > large posts cause severe constipation in these boxes . . . > > TIA, > > Glen > 0/0 > From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Wed Jan 22 12:20:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C95B@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > And, if you have a lot more money available: (just came up on > comp.sys.dec.micro) > > http://www.aub.nl/vaxsales/ > > a 3100-85 for 600 (money units not specified) > a 3100-80 for 500 > both for 1000. Each includes 3 VT510+keyboard. One includes a CD. These guys are impossible to deal with. I have been working with them since, uhh, September last year to get this lot from them, and have dropped the deal since, as they're being impossible. The money units are in EURo's, I would assume. They first wanted to just get rid of the stuff, then someone changed their mind, and now they seek to get as much cash off it as possible. Beware. --fred From cb at mythtech.net Wed Jan 22 12:24:17 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: Ressurecting Mac Plus Message-ID: >Go to Apple's website and dig down in the downloads section - they've got >(or did have last year) all versions of MacOS from v1 up to 7.5. The >software license normally says that if you own a Mac you can download the >OS. If they haven't got older versions any more I've got 'em all here :) Last I checked, they removed all except for System 6.0.8 and System 7.5.3. The do have updaters for most of the systems, but they are just updates that need the original system to run. Once upon a time their FTP site did have a number of the pre System 7 versions (not all, but a handful of assorted versions). But I don't think they have ever had full installs of anything but System 7.5.3 in the 7.x and up range (and 7.5.3 should REALLY be updated to 7.5.5 as soon as it is installed... .3 has a ton of bugs in it that are fixed in .5). System 7 is when they went to a paid OS model, so they didn't give the stuff away. 6 and under their policy was you should go to your local Apple dealer with blank disks and they will give you the latest OS version (at least that is what they told me when I asked once how to get an update to 6.x) -chris From dave at cirt.net Wed Jan 22 12:31:37 2003 From: dave at cirt.net (dave@cirt.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: BBC Micro - assemblers - info needed In-Reply-To: <01ac01c2bf0c$fb942ce0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> References: <01ac01c2bf0c$fb942ce0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1043257261.3e2ed7add4679@www.cirt.net> Quoting Philip Pemberton : > Hi all, > I've just downloaded three assemblers from the ROM archive at > http://bbc.nvg.org . Catch is, none of them include manuals. I've got copies > of: > VASM65 v2.0E by Vida Rebus > ASM 1.10 by SYSTEM (claims to be the "ASM 6502 Macro assembler V1.10", > "Copyright (C) 1984 SYSTEM"). Contains text strings like "Press play", so > may be a tape->ROM conversion. > ROMAS 3.02 by TBK Associates (full copyright string = "ROMAS 3.02 > (C)1985 TBK Associates - S.C." Silly question; why don't you use the assembler built into BBC Micro BASIC? I used this for years for many serious programs and never had a problem... (I should be able to remember how to use it still!) dave From dave at cirt.net Wed Jan 22 12:38:24 2003 From: dave at cirt.net (dave@cirt.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: BBC Micro - assemblers - info needed In-Reply-To: <10301191443.ZM27616@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <01ac01c2bf0c$fb942ce0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <10301191443.ZM27616@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <1043257503.3e2ed89f509bd@www.cirt.net> Quoting pete@dunnington.u-net.com: > On Jan 18, 16:16, Philip Pemberton wrote: > > > Finally, does anyone know how some discs were formatted so they were > > compatible with 40-track and 80-track disc drives? > The way Acorn did that with things like the Master 128 Welcome Disc was to > make all the directory entries (on track 0) point to tracks between 5 and > 9, and 20 and 39. Track 20 on a 48-tpi drive is where track 40 would be on > a 96-tpi drive: One has to be very careful with the formatting - there where several different FS formats - some with varying compatibility. (Talking about the file system side here) The Master welcome disc used ADFS which was slightly more advanced than the more common DFS that was used on the earlier Acorns. I do have some scribbled documents which describe Acorn DFS in enough detail, plus some sample code which will extract and create disc images which I can send on (IIRC the code is actually on the web on one of the Acorn web sites - I can't remember which one though!) dave From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Jan 22 12:40:55 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: A way to erase OTP components? Message-ID: <200301221758.JAA23696@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Arno Kletzander" > >Hello everybody, this is something I've been wondering about for some time >now. Perhaps here is the place to ask, since it's about one of the "inner >secrets of silicon": > >Tony Duell wrote: >> The 8751 is the EPROM version of the 8051 microcontroller. It's otherwise >> identical to it. >> >> If it's in a ceramic package with a quartz window, then you can erase it >> like any other EPROM and reprogram it. If it's in the plastic package, >> then it's the OTP version. > >If in fact the same die was used in both components, then it's only the >plastic (which is impenetrable to the commonly-used ultra-violet light) that >prevents the OTP variant from being erased and reprogrammed. > >However, there are kinds of radiation similar to light which *will* >penetrate the plastic housing...you see where this goes? Will the memory be erased >when you, say, X-ray the OTP component, will it stay unaffected, or is the >thing just going to die? > >(just outta curiosity) > >Arno Kletzander > Hi The trick is impart just enough energy to the electrons to get them to tunnel through the insulation. If you start hitting things too hard, you'll start to damage the crystal structure. UV light will both penetrate into the floating gates and react with the desired amount. One could use x-rays to erase the chip but you'd need an intensity that is great enough that it would also damage the chip. The amount of x-ray energy captured by the gate in a normal x-ray picture is quite small. Since x-rays go through greater depths without reacting and have higher energies, they will most likely damage the chip while erasing the charge on the gates. Materials change the amount of transparency at differing frequencies of electromagnetic energy. UV is just right to penetrate the silicon oxide cover and be absorbed by the poly-silicon gates. It is interesting that the flight at high altitudes is probably more damaging to electronics than the inspection x-ray at the gate. Dwight From collison at cnri.reston.va.us Wed Jan 22 12:46:45 2003 From: collison at cnri.reston.va.us (Ron Collison) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: TI (Texas Instruments) Silent 700 Model 725, their 1st portable data terminal (circa 1971) Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030122125333.00b80220@mailbox.cnri.reston.va.us> How to find an interested buyer? - I know Ebay, but that is a 7 day window for what I would presume to be a small audience of interested parties - and how to value/price it? This was my personal unit, last used in the late 70s to access the then ARPANET. Still powers up. Very Good condition. This was TI's 1st Silent 700 portable data terminal (they produced the 1st Silent 700 in 1969, but not a portable) - per TI's web site - is this collectible? From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jan 22 12:49:21 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: VAX VMS Question In-Reply-To: <4356058381ECB8498BB30B34D7AE3AEF043BB2C8@rtints5.rti.org> from "Lindahl, Carl" at Jan 22, 2003 10:01:39 AM Message-ID: <200301221838.h0MIcSft024446@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Does anyone have a VAX running VMS connected via ethernet to a Cisco 2950 > series switch? I have had the VAX connected to a 2900XL series switch for a > year with no problem, but in doing upgrades, moving it to the 2950 has > caused major character delays, and other problems between the VAX and > clients connecting to it. Everything else connected to the switch is working > fine. Have you checked the port settings on the 2950? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Wed Jan 22 12:52:01 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: VAX VMS Question Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FE05@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Yes. On the 2950, set the port to 10Mbps, half-duplex, no flow control, no spanning tree: int fastethernet 0/xxx speed 10 duplex half flow none spanning-tree portfast no shutdown or somesuch. The Cisco ASIC's hate the VAX ethernet port, same here on my 4000. Basically, the ether connection is bouncing between between various modes, making it slow and such. --fred From bpope at wordstock.com Wed Jan 22 12:54:39 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: A plea to classiccmpers In-Reply-To: from "Daniel Hicks" at Jan 22, 03 12:41:26 pm Message-ID: <200301221837.NAA11962@wordstock.com> And thusly Daniel Hicks spake: > > > Pay by the minute for connection time? You're getting screwed. > I believe in England local calls are billed per minute connected... From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Wed Jan 22 12:57:06 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: A plea to classiccmpers Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C95C@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Daniel Hicks writes: > Pay by the minute for connection time? You're getting screwed. Yes. Thanks for letting us know. This has been common practice since forever in Europe, and many other parts of the world. --f From marvin at rain.org Wed Jan 22 12:59:33 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: A plea to classiccmpers References: <200301221732.MAA06554@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: <3E2EE853.A6862FE1@rain.org> Daniel Hicks wrote: > > Pay by the minute for connection time? You're getting screwed. Before you make such statements, you might consider that people are subscribed in other parts of the world; what happens here in the US is not necessarily universally true. From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jan 22 13:02:43 2003 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: A way to erase OTP components? In-Reply-To: <22257.1043240830@www65.gmx.net> Message-ID: On Wednesday, January 22, 2003, at 08:07 AM, Arno Kletzander wrote: > If in fact the same die was used in both components, then it's only the > plastic (which is impenetrable to the commonly-used ultra-violet > light) that > prevents the OTP variant from being erased and reprogrammed. > > However, there are kinds of radiation similar to light which *will* > penetrate the plastic housing...you see where this goes? Will the > memory be erased > when you, say, X-ray the OTP component, will it stay unaffected, or is > the > thing just going to die? According to this: http://www.jmargolin.com/patents/eprom.htm it should be possible to erase an EPROM using X-rays, but there's a possibility of the crystalline structure of the silicon being disrupted in the process. It's an interesting read. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "Wear whatever you want...Just don't be surprised St. Petersburg, FL if you wind up with a blow-gun dart in your prosthetic boobies." -Kurt Huhn From cb at mythtech.net Wed Jan 22 13:06:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:57 2005 Subject: A plea to classiccmpers Message-ID: >Pay by the minute for connection time? You're getting screwed. Maybe they are, but from what I gather, that is not unusual outside the USA. Even here in the USA, if you are on a dialup connection, and calling from a business... guess what, you are probably paying by the minute. Most business lines in the USA are billed per minute of connect time (or worse, by the "message unit"). -chris From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Wed Jan 22 13:08:31 2003 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: A plea to classiccmpers In-Reply-To: References: <200301221732.MAA06554@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: <1043262189.1121.3.camel@azure.subsolar> On Wed, 2003-01-22 at 11:41, Daniel Hicks wrote: > > Pay by the minute for connection time? You're getting screwed. NO, your probably living in Europe. Paul From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Wed Jan 22 13:11:43 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: VAX VMS Question References: <4356058381ECB8498BB30B34D7AE3AEF043BB2C8@rtints5.rti.org> Message-ID: <3E2EEBFB.4070702@Vishay.com> Carl, this doesn't sound like a real classic computer problem to me (are your components at least ten years old?), but you may want to check http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/473/46.html for answers. We had all odd kinds of similar problems until we found out about how important correct settings (full/half duplex, 10/100Mbits, auto-negotiate or not...) on switch ports are. These problems are not limited to any particular hardware or platform. Fixing the settings as directed by the Cisco documents solved all the problems and gave us a great boost in transfer rates. Regards, Andreas Lindahl, Carl wrote: > Does anyone have a VAX running VMS connected via ethernet to a Cisco 2950 > series switch? I have had the VAX connected to a 2900XL series switch for a > year with no problem, but in doing upgrades, moving it to the 2950 has > caused major character delays, and other problems between the VAX and > clients connecting to it. Everything else connected to the switch is working > fine. > > > Thanks > > Carl Lindahl > ITS NOC > ============== > RTI International > Ragland Building > P.O. Box 12194 > RTP, NC 27709 > Phone - 919-541-5872 > Fax - 919-541-7333 > > -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 22 13:14:22 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: A plea to classiccmpers In-Reply-To: References: <200301221732.MAA06554@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: >Pay by the minute for connection time? You're getting screwed. Not everyone is lucky enough to live where they can get highspeed always on connections for next to nothing or dialup for free. List members in area's other than the US often have to pay by the minute charges to thier phone companies (this includes if they simply want to call across the street). Glen is right, trim the unneeded garbage from the messages you're replying to. Although, if you're changing the subject line, some indication as to what subject you're changeing from would be nice! (my pet peave) Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Jan 22 13:19:02 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: A plea to classiccmpers In-Reply-To: References: <200301221732.MAA06554@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Jan 2003, Daniel Hicks wrote: > > Pay by the minute for connection time? You're getting screwed. > [snipped] Yeah, like Hotmail is the Deal of the Century... I guess where you live they never heard of the rest of the world, or that Classiccmp just *might* be read in COTUS (Countries Other Than the US)... hmmm? When I lived in India, my ISP charged by the message unit, it was not uncommon for my monthly bill to be Rs. 15,000 to 17,000. And the Rupee is 48 to the dollar - you do the math. Of course you seem to miss the point - that on a universal mailing list like this, there is a certain etiquette that evolved so all users of the List can gain maximum benefit - not just the vast majority of MS users. I am running a strictly ASCII mailer - Pine to be exact, under a Unix shell account. Mime, Base64, attachments, jpegs... and long, untrimmed multi-hundred line (already-read) messages with "Me Too!" prepended is what he (and I) (and many others) are complaining about. Just FYI.... Cheers John From gil at vauxelectronics.com Wed Jan 22 13:25:01 2003 From: gil at vauxelectronics.com (gil smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: laptop wanted; toshiba T1100+ questions Message-ID: <3.0.32.20030122123206.0189ade0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Hi folks: A couple of questions: 1) OK, this one is off-topic: Does anyone have an old laptop for sale? I'm looking for a reasonably-priced one with Win98/98se. 2) I recently got a toshiba T1100plus which seems to work well (except for a few stuck pixels). It came with an ms-dos 3.30 disk, which boots it nicely, but I would like to find ms-dos ver 3.2 that it shipped with. Also, when I run format on the machine (with 3.3), it formats the disks to 300-something KB instead of 720KB. Running format /? does not seem to list help info on the 3.3 dos, as it does on other versions I have used. I can format a 720K disk on my win98 desktop machine, but I am wondering why dos 3.3 is formatting to less that the drive can handle. Anyone with Toshiba dos 3.2 out there? thanks, gil ;----------------------------------------------------------- ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) ;----------------------------------------------------------- From kandres at epssecurity.com Wed Jan 22 13:28:50 2003 From: kandres at epssecurity.com (Kevin Andres) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: PET 2001 Oddity 6550 Unobtainiums MOS TECHNOLOGY Message-ID: <099F935BC4E3B941984DED87DE9B482F0844F4@EPS-exchange.eps.sec.int.net> Eric, Yes, you are correct. My fault. I've always mixed up MOSTEK and MOS Technology. It seems I remember that the MOS Technology folks left Motorola because of the way the 6800 was progressing, but that could be a faintly remembered rumor also. MOS Technology was responsible for the 6550 ram. I seem to remember having a book from 82 or 83 from MOS Technology somewhere. Kev --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.445 / Virus Database: 250 - Release Date: 1/21/2003 From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 22 13:36:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: Xilinx purge this time In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030122193931.65376.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- William Donzelli wrote: > I also have buckets of old Lattice GALs, if anyone wants them cheap, to > erase and reuse. What sizes? I use lots of 16V8s and 22V10s. If you have any parts with a "Q" near the end, I could _really_ use those (they are quarter power parts with an obscenely low draw - I'm building portable stuff like the SBC6120... draws 175mA @ 5V at the moment, about 1/2 of it in 3 GALs). I have your first check in the envelope, ready to go out pending any additions... Thanks, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From danielrhicks at hotmail.com Wed Jan 22 13:40:00 2003 From: danielrhicks at hotmail.com (Daniel Hicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: A plea to classiccmpers References: <200301221732.MAA06554@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: There's nothing wrong with Hotmail. And, of course, I realize this mailing list has subscribers around the world. Mine was a sarcastic comment. It is because it has subscribers around the world that I said that ... if everyone griped and complained like he did, there would no longer be any useful information mailed out. I subscribed because I wanted mail about "classic computers" not about some guy complaining he gets too much mail. Anyway, I am done with the subject, and await future mail that is on-topic. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lawson" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 2:21 PM Subject: Re: A plea to classiccmpers > > > On Wed, 22 Jan 2003, Daniel Hicks wrote: > > > > > Pay by the minute for connection time? You're getting screwed. > > > [snipped] > > > Yeah, like Hotmail is the Deal of the Century... I guess where you live > they never heard of the rest of the world, or that Classiccmp just *might* > be read in COTUS (Countries Other Than the US)... hmmm? > > > When I lived in India, my ISP charged by the message unit, it was not > uncommon for my monthly bill to be Rs. 15,000 to 17,000. And the Rupee is > 48 to the dollar - you do the math. > > Of course you seem to miss the point - that on a universal mailing list > like this, there is a certain etiquette that evolved so all users of the > List can gain maximum benefit - not just the vast majority of MS users. > > I am running a strictly ASCII mailer - Pine to be exact, under a Unix > shell account. Mime, Base64, attachments, jpegs... and long, untrimmed > multi-hundred line (already-read) messages with "Me Too!" prepended is > what he (and I) (and many others) are complaining about. > > Just FYI.... > > Cheers > > John > From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Jan 22 13:43:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: Toshiba laptop wanted (previously?) Message-ID: <008901c2c24e$a3f3d9a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I had posted a while back about wanting a Toshiba 3100 laptop.... I think someone replied with one I could have, but I can't find that email anywhere. Long and short of it is I need something along the lines of a 286 or so, that is small enough to fit easily on my electronics bench, and has one ISA slot, preferrably two. I was thinking the Toshiba 3100 was pretty close to this. Can the original person who responded please get back to me, or does someone else have something close? I'm wanting to put an HP-IB card in the unit to interface with my test gear, and possibly a wireless card or at least an ethernet port (I could get the ethernet port with a zircom parallel port adapter that I have)... Thanks! Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From pcw at mesanet.com Wed Jan 22 13:56:00 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: A plea to classiccmpers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Jan 2003, chris wrote: > >Pay by the minute for connection time? You're getting screwed. > > Maybe they are, but from what I gather, that is not unusual outside the > USA. > > Even here in the USA, if you are on a dialup connection, and calling from > a business... guess what, you are probably paying by the minute. Most > business lines in the USA are billed per minute of connect time (or > worse, by the "message unit"). > > -chris > > > Before we got DSL at work (we're about 17K feet from the CO) we had to get by with a Dialup. Good old PacBell charged us about a penny a minute... DSL @ $99.00 a month is actually cheaper... Peter Wallace From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Jan 22 13:59:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: A plea to classiccmpers In-Reply-To: References: <200301221732.MAA06554@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Jan 2003, Daniel Hicks wrote: > > There's nothing wrong with Hotmail. And, of course, I realize this mailing Personally, I prefer not to conduct my correspondence thru a barrage of animated adverts and relentless popups and other Crapola - YMMV > > Anyway, I am done with the subject, and await future mail that is on-topic. > I consider this to be peripherally on-topic: you *STILL* left the entire message appended to your reply - and *that* was the substantive puport of the message that started this off, and I repeat the repectful request, Daniel: Please trim the previous message content from your replies down to just the relevant lines you're responding to. We all read the same mesages. And read them again, and again, as they snowball into long, useless gobs of stale text and headers and cutesy lame sigs... ;{} It's a simple request - "Please trim your replies to the Claccisccmp List." Thanks Bro! Cheerz John From coredump at gifford.co.uk Wed Jan 22 14:12:01 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: Followup to Adrian's caption competition References: <002201c2c1b2$ffe878c0$5b76033e@local.sunplan.com> Message-ID: <3E2EFC02.40705@gifford.co.uk> Tim Myers wrote: > I didn't see this come across the list, so here goes. Apologies if it's > already been covered. > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2301705304 That version of the Tandata seems to have a separate keyboard. Mine didn't -- it was just a single, wedge-shaped box. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From danielrhicks at hotmail.com Wed Jan 22 14:14:37 2003 From: danielrhicks at hotmail.com (Daniel Hicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: A plea to classiccmpers References: <200301221732.MAA06554@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: > There's nothing wrong with Hotmail. And, of course, I realize this mailing > > Personally, I prefer not to conduct my correspondence thru a barrage of > animated adverts and relentless popups and other Crapola - YMMV I am actually using Outlook Express 6.0, not the Hotmail website. Simply setup a new account, and OE syncs and downloads the mail in your Hotmail box to your local computer. Agreed, Hotmail, Yahoo, and the rest all have too many advertisements, but I use this one so as not to distribute my real, personal email account. There ... I included only the text that I was replying to, and not the entire message. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 22 14:18:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: A plea to classiccmpers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Pay by the minute for connection time? You're getting screwed. 1) In most parts of the U.S., business phone service is NOT available flat rate. A business phone line (as opposed to residential) is charged per minute. Not all businesses are willing to lie to the phone company and try to claim that there is somebody living there in order to get an "unlimited" residential service. 2) There still exist some remote areas of the U.S. that don't even have a local dialup, even for AOHell! 3) there exist other countries besides U.S.; and policies and internet availability can vary. Besides, at modem speeds, who WANTS to retrieve a 100K message that only has a paragraph of new content? From danielrhicks at hotmail.com Wed Jan 22 14:20:28 2003 From: danielrhicks at hotmail.com (Daniel Hicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: Back to old computers -- IBM PCjr References: <200301221732.MAA06554@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: Back to old computers, I asked about IBM PCjr's a while back and did receive a few responses, but no certain leads. I am still looking for a working PCjr, or PCjr components. Thanks Dan From als at thangorodrim.de Wed Jan 22 14:22:57 2003 From: als at thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: A plea to classiccmpers In-Reply-To: References: <200301221732.MAA06554@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: <20030122200412.GB28093@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> On Wed, Jan 22, 2003 at 12:41:26PM -0500, Daniel Hicks wrote: > > Pay by the minute for connection time? You're getting screwed. Newsflash: free bandwith is not available everywhere in the world. Cheap broadband access is far less common than you seem to think, most people worldwide (yes, as a matter of fact, there is more to the world that the US) access the internet through: - rather thin pipes (I'm sitting behind 64 KBit/s ISDN - which is quite a lot), - pay either for connection time or traffic volume consumed, Besides, trimming the replies one sends is also a matter of politeness. Regards, Alex. -- "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison From cb at mythtech.net Wed Jan 22 14:28:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: A plea to classiccmpers Message-ID: >Before we got DSL at work (we're about 17K feet from the CO) we had to get by >with a Dialup. Good old PacBell charged us about a penny a minute... DSL @ >$99.00 a month is actually cheaper... We actually has a similar thing here... I had been trying to get DSL put into the budget for months, and accounting kept saying no. Despite all the added benifits it would bring us, they didn't want the $250 a month price tag that I was proposing (this was early DSL, before you could get it dirt cheap, I was one of the first in my area to get it). So I was smart. I pulled out the last few months phone bills to show the cost we were paying to have our "unlimited" dialup line connected all day. It was connected to the network, and we were running a mail server, so the only time it hung up was after 11pm, and then it went to connecting once an hour to update the mail server, until 8am when it came back up full time again. Showing them three months of $450 line charges got my $250 a month DSL put onto the budget with no further complaints. -chris From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Wed Jan 22 14:44:00 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: BBC Micro - assemblers - info needed In-Reply-To: <1043257503.3e2ed89f509bd@www.cirt.net> References: <10301191443.ZM27616@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <01ac01c2bf0c$fb942ce0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <10301191443.ZM27616@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030121204347.02625168@pop.freeserve.net> At 12:45 22/01/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Quoting pete@dunnington.u-net.com: > > On Jan 18, 16:16, Philip Pemberton wrote: > > > > > Finally, does anyone know how some discs were formatted so they were > > > compatible with 40-track and 80-track disc drives? > > The way Acorn did that with things like the Master 128 Welcome Disc was to > > make all the directory entries (on track 0) point to tracks between 5 and > > 9, and 20 and 39. Track 20 on a 48-tpi drive is where track 40 would be on > > a 96-tpi drive: > >One has to be very careful with the formatting - there where several >different >FS formats - some with varying compatibility. (Talking about the file system >side here) The Master welcome disc used ADFS which was slightly more advanced >than the more common DFS that was used on the earlier Acorns. > >I do have some scribbled documents which describe Acorn DFS in enough detail, >plus some sample code which will extract and create disc images which I can >send on (IIRC the code is actually on the web on one of the Acorn web >sites - I >can't remember which one though!) > >dave From what I recall from doing it many years ago, one could achieve a (low capacity) dual-format disc by formatting and copying the files over on a 40 track drive, then putting the disc in an 80 track drive, and formatting *as 40 tracks* (so that it only did the first 40) and copying over the same files in the same order. Oh, you had to copy over a suitably sized dummy file first on each occasion (to skip the first half of the 40-track disc). does that make sense? From cb at mythtech.net Wed Jan 22 14:47:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: A plea to classiccmpers Message-ID: >Besides, at modem speeds, who WANTS to retrieve a 100K message that only >has a paragraph of new content? Could be worse... this comes to mind only because as I read your message, I noticed a new email coming down from one guy that I want to strangle. I am on a mailing list for state surplus property so my Fire Deparment knows when good stuff comes in. The guy that sends out the notices keeps taking digital pics of the stuff, and importing them into MS Word documents before sending them as attachments. So he takes what would be a 50k JPEG, and turns it into a 2.5 MB word doc... just so I can take a look at whatever he is hocking that day (today it was a GMC dump truck). Even on DSL, downloading a 2.5 MB file to look at one picture is annoying! -chris From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Wed Jan 22 14:50:00 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: amstrad pcw available In-Reply-To: <3E2DD40C.6070708@gifford.co.uk> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030120230054.01aacc88@mail.mosthosts.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030121204740.02271958@pop.freeserve.net> At 23:13 21/01/2003 +0000, John Honniball wrote: >Rob O'Donnell wrote: >>Hi.. is an Amstrad PCW (8512 I think) c/w printer of interest to >>anybody. From memory, it's a CP/M machine, > >Yes, that's right. Also ran LocoScript, a wordprocessing package. >Z80 processor and 512k of memory. ..... >>It's currently in my neigbours front yard waiting for the bin men, but >>I've a mind to rescue it. > >Go on, you know you want to! OK. I rescued it. It's actually an 8256, single floppy version. Apart from my possibly having a 14 year old C.V. on a disc for it somewhere, I haven't really got much use for it - was just a shame to see it being chucked out like that. If anybody has a particular interest, and would like it, let me know! Rob. From acme at ao.net Wed Jan 22 15:00:01 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: A plea to classiccmpers Message-ID: <200301222103.QAA09978@eola.ao.net> From: Daniel Hicks Date: 01/22/2003 1:37 PM > > Pay by the minute for connection time? You're getting screwed. > I beg your pardon. I live in the USA. However, in many parts of the world, all telephone calls are metered. This is *not* a USA-only list. Later -- Glen 0/0 From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 22 15:29:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: PDP-11 papertape (was Re: Heathkit H-11A (LSI-11) on eBay) In-Reply-To: <3E2E7C36.6070606@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <20030122213225.59806.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Andreas Freiherr wrote: > > I have a couple of pounds of paper tapes, but no reader. Some of the > tapes (DECish blue) may be -11 diagnostics or other software and may > even be labelled in human-readable form, some are just samples to show > to somebody who just asked "huh, what, papertape?". > > Also, some RK05 platters assumed to contain diags (XXDP+, IIRC), but no > drives any more. Shouldn't have given them away, really! :-( > > Are you looking for anything in particular? Well... I do have some older Unibus gear including an RK11C and no diagnostics. Not soon, but eventually I'd like to take a stab at reconstructing this 11/20 I got 18 years ago, one part at a time from the dumpster (the hardware mgr threw it away over the course of several weeks, stripping it to get the power supplies which I eventually got). It needs some *serious* TLC. The cards are all intact, but not all of the core made its way into my hands. :-( I think I have 4 planes out of 6 or 7. One might be in the Boston area with an ex-coworker. Not sure about a couple more. So... anything related to the 11/20 or 11/05 would be great. I also have at least one 11/04 and several 11/34s if stuff still came on tape then. I don't have many peripherals that old - PC05, RK05 (not RK03) LP11... that's about it. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 22 15:33:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: Apollo DN 4500 looking to be saved from computer recycler Message-ID: It's located near Rochester, NY. Information below. Reply to original sender. Reply-to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 16:29:05 -0500 From: Alexander G. Macur Subject: RE: Apollo DN 4500 looking to be saved from computer recycler I have a vintage Apollo DN4500 including 19" monitor looking for a home I also have all the HP/Apollo docs & software (although I doubt the DC600A tapes would be readable) I also have lots of DC600A tapes but my guess is after 10+ years the media would have deteriorated. Its in Webster (Rochester) NY. When I moved from Syracuse to St Louis in 1993 I hooked it up and it booted to the Apollo Domain/OS prompt. I didn't bother to unpack it when I moved from St Louis to Rochester. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jan 22 15:48:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: BBC Micro - assemblers - info needed In-Reply-To: dave@cirt.net "Re: BBC Micro - assemblers - info needed" (Jan 22, 12:45) References: <01ac01c2bf0c$fb942ce0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <10301191443.ZM27616@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <1043257503.3e2ed89f509bd@www.cirt.net> Message-ID: <10301222105.ZM1917@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 22, 12:45, dave@cirt.net wrote: > Quoting pete@dunnington.u-net.com: > > On Jan 18, 16:16, Philip Pemberton wrote: > > > > > Finally, does anyone know how some discs were formatted so they were > > > compatible with 40-track and 80-track disc drives? > > The way Acorn did that with things like the Master 128 Welcome Disc was to > > make all the directory entries (on track 0) point to tracks between 5 and > > 9, and 20 and 39. Track 20 on a 48-tpi drive is where track 40 would be on > > a 96-tpi drive: > > One has to be very careful with the formatting - there where several different > FS formats - some with varying compatibility. (Talking about the file system > side here) The Master welcome disc used ADFS which was slightly more advanced > than the more common DFS that was used on the earlier Acorns. Yes, I'm aware of that. The Master Welcome Disc appears to the system as an ADFS S disc (S means "small format", 160K), ie as 40-track single-sided disc. It just happens to be made in such a way as to be readable in 40-track and 80-track drives. I created a few discs like that at the time. I did it by hand, but I believe eventually someone made a utility or ROM to do it. Now if you think that's wierd, how about the disc I have (also for a BBC) that has three separate sets of data on it, all in DFS format? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Jan 22 16:16:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: Heathkit H-11A (LSI-11) on eBay In-Reply-To: <3E2EC221.15251.B93D4E7@localhost>; from Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de on Wed, Jan 22, 2003 at 16:09:05 CET References: <3E2E7C36.6070606@Vishay.com> <3E2EC221.15251.B93D4E7@localhost> Message-ID: <20030122230953.G57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.01.22 16:09 Hans Franke wrote: > As it looks now, Jochen Kunz may bring a PDP 11 as > his exhibition for VCFe - Slowly, slowly, slowly. I still do not have the machine in my kitchen. Not to speak about the repairs that it and the RK07 drive will need. The machine and the drive where stored in a garage for some years and are a bit "rotten"... And I think Andreas has enough PDP-11s to play with. All he need is papertape reader. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From doug_jackson at citadel.com.au Wed Jan 22 16:35:00 2003 From: doug_jackson at citadel.com.au (Doug Jackson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: A plea to classiccmpers Message-ID: Here in Australia, STD calls (over 50km?) are billed per minute. My understanding is that our entire population (approx 14 mill) is equivalent to that of New York. Unfortunately (from an infrastructure perspective) this population is spread over an area the size of the USA. This means that telecoms costs are high. This is not actually a problem for net connections here, as most national ISP's provide a 'local call' number to dail. Doug Jackson Director, Managed Security Services Citadel Securix +61 (0)2 6290 9011 (Ph) +61 (0)2 6262 6152 (Fax) +61 (0)414 986 878 (Mobile) Web: Offices in Melbourne, Sydney, Canberra, Hong Kong, Boston > -----Original Message----- > From: acme@ao.net [mailto:acme@ao.net] > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 8:03 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Re: A plea to classiccmpers > > > From: Daniel Hicks > Date: 01/22/2003 1:37 PM > > > > > Pay by the minute for connection time? You're getting screwed. > > > > I beg your pardon. I live in the USA. However, in many > parts of the world, > all telephone calls are metered. > > This is *not* a USA-only list. > > Later -- > > Glen > 0/0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CAUTION - The information in this message may be of a privileged or confidential nature intended only for the use of the addressee or someone authorised to receive the addressee's e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster@citadel.com.au. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Citadel Securix. Feel free to visit the Citadel Securix website! Click below. http://www.citadel.com.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030122/48775a8a/attachment.html From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Jan 22 17:00:01 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: Intel 8751 References: <200301202133.VAA21015@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <3E2F240A.7040806@tiac.net> You gotta be kidding! The 8751 is an EPROM version of the 8051, the most popular microprocessor ever made (in terms of sheer numbers that is). Checkout 8051.com for starters. Stan Barr wrote: >Hi, > >To get back to computers for a change... > >While looking for some op-amp chips earlier I came across a >couple of 8751s (labelled Intel '80). A quick google search >failed to turn up a data sheet, anyone any ideas where I can >look? > > From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Jan 22 17:08:01 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: A way to erase OTP components? References: <22257.1043240830@www65.gmx.net> Message-ID: <3E2F2622.7040006@tiac.net> X-rays will erase the part at high energy levels, but this will also degrade the part to the point where it will fail soon, or die during erasure. Arno Kletzander wrote: >Hello everybody, this is something I've been wondering about for some time >now. Perhaps here is the place to ask, since it's about one of the "inner >secrets of silicon": > >Tony Duell wrote: > >>The 8751 is the EPROM version of the 8051 microcontroller. It's otherwise >>identical to it. >> >>If it's in a ceramic package with a quartz window, then you can erase it >>like any other EPROM and reprogram it. If it's in the plastic package, >>then it's the OTP version. >> > >If in fact the same die was used in both components, then it's only the >plastic (which is impenetrable to the commonly-used ultra-violet light) that >prevents the OTP variant from being erased and reprogrammed. > >However, there are kinds of radiation similar to light which *will* >penetrate the plastic housing...you see where this goes? Will the memory be erased >when you, say, X-ray the OTP component, will it stay unaffected, or is the >thing just going to die? > >(just outta curiosity) > >Arno Kletzander > From kelly at catcorner.org Wed Jan 22 17:14:00 2003 From: kelly at catcorner.org (Kelly Leavitt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape Message-ID: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B806@308server.308dole.com> Depending on where you would need it shipped, I'd try making one for you. I couldn't find the FTP site, but if given the file specifics, I've got a T1 available for the download too. MS: Where can I find the instructions and content? I'll read them over and see if my tape drive will do what is needed. It is pretty versitile. I use it to read and convert tapes from all kinds of systems. Kelly -----Original Message----- From: msokolov@ivan.harhan.org [mailto:msokolov@ivan.harhan.org] Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 1:41 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape jwillis@dahmer.vistech.net wrote: > Does anyone know of a source for Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape? (TU80) Anyone with a 9-track tape unit (I'm sure there are plenty such people on this list) should be able to write you a set of tapes from the images on my FTP site. There is even a FORMAT.1600 file there telling you what to put on which tape and in which order. A friend of mine is holding a working TU81 for me and while I would love to get it operational, I don't feel like bringing it into this apartment, especially since I may have to move again in 6 months... MS From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Jan 22 17:35:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: A way to erase OTP components? In-Reply-To: <3E2F2622.7040006@tiac.net> References: <22257.1043240830@www65.gmx.net> <3E2F2622.7040006@tiac.net> Message-ID: <2615.4.20.168.215.1043278714.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Bob Shannon wrote: > X-rays will erase the part at high energy levels, but this will also > degrade the part to the point where it > will fail soon, or die during erasure. A friend had a large quantity of programmed 27C512 OTP EPROMs, with contents of no use to him. He tried to erase them using a commerical X-ray machine, of the type used for inspecting assembled circuit boards (to check solder joints on BGA packages) and was unable to produce any noticable change to the part. This subject has been discussed on sci.electronics multiple times in the past, and the consensus was that the frequency of Xrays is such that they have no direct effect on the stored data. But at very high exposures it is definitely possible to damage the part. Note that the exposure levels used for baggage inspection at airports is far too low to cause any measurable effect on EPROMs. They are generally set to substantially lower levels than medical X-rays equipment. The normal erasure procedure for EPROMs is to use short-wave UV light, nominally at a wavelength of 2537 angstroms (about 254 nm). Unlike the more common long-wave UV (black lights), this *is* dangerous to your eyes; never look into the light. The light bulbs and the window on the EPROM are made from quartz rather than glass, because glass blocks most of the short-wave UV. Suitable bulbs are commonly sold for germicidal use. In the mid-1980s, at least one Japanese semiconductor company offered plastic windowed EPROMs. The package was a normal epoxy DIP package, except that a square area in the center was molded from a different plastic. The window was translucent (not transparent) to visible light. These were less expensive than the usual ceramic windowed parts, but more expensive than OTP parts. However, they could only be erased a small number of times because the plastic window becomes opaque to the shortwave UV with prolonged exposure. I'd heard of these plastic windowed packages at the time, but never actually saw one until I purchased a coin-op video game board at an auction. Eric From cb at mythtech.net Wed Jan 22 17:37:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: Thunderware LightningScan Message-ID: Couple of questions about a Thunderware LightningScan for the Mac. 1: Any one have any idea what the voltage is for the power supply for it? I have on here, but the person I got it from warned me that the power supply he was including might or might not be for it. All he knew is it was the only power supply in the box of stuff with it that fit. The power supply is a wall wart rated at 16v AC, 20vA. Says its made by Condor. 2: Included (and what I actually thought I was getting) is a Thunderscan adaptor for the Imagewriter. It has been a REALLY long time since I used one, but I recalled it being a drop in replacement for the ribbon, and it connected inline to the serial port. So you connected the Thunderscan to the Mac, and the Imagewriter to the box on the cord for the Thunderscan. The one I have jives with that, but connected to the end of the serial connector is another box that looks like it would connect to the Drive port, and then to a Mini-Din 8 serial port. This box is removable, so it might not belong for all I know (it is labled "Thunderscan", so it must at least go to one of their products) What is this other box. Is it just a converter for use with din 8 serial ports? If so, why the connector for the Drive port? (The one I used in the past was on a 512K, and I don't remember this box being part of the setup, but then it would have connected to a DE-9 serial port which is what the Scanner head cable terminates to). 3: What is the LightningScan box for? Is this part of a different scanner? I'm sure this box was not part of the setup I used in the past. It appears to have SCSI ports on it (two DB-25 ports and a push button number selector). There is a mini-din 8 on this box. Is that odd adaptor to hook up to this box? The din 8 cable looks kind of short to be used with this box and have it connect to the drive port AND the box connected to the SCSI port. (The box is too small to be a zero footprint device that sits under the Mac, and the din 8 pigtail is only about 5 inches long, enough to reach to the serial port on the Mac, but not enough to reach to the outside of the mac to connect to the front of the LightningScan box where the din 8 port is). I did a bit of googling, and it looks like the LightningScan box was for a hand scanner, so it might not go to the Thunderscan at all. But that other drive port looking adaptor box has me stumped. Anyone able to shed some additional light on this stuff? -chris From Peter.Hicks at POGGS.CO.UK Wed Jan 22 17:41:08 2003 From: Peter.Hicks at POGGS.CO.UK (Peter Hicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: VAX VMS Question In-Reply-To: <4356058381ECB8498BB30B34D7AE3AEF043BB2C8@rtints5.rti.org> References: <4356058381ECB8498BB30B34D7AE3AEF043BB2C8@rtints5.rti.org> Message-ID: <3E2F2CAC.6050402@POGGS.CO.UK> Lindahl, Carl wrote: >Does anyone have a VAX running VMS connected via ethernet to a Cisco 2950 >series switch? I have had the VAX connected to a 2900XL series switch for a >year with no problem, but in doing upgrades, moving it to the 2950 has >caused major character delays, and other problems between the VAX and >clients connecting to it. Everything else connected to the switch is working >fine. > > Check the speed and duplex of the ports on your switch. The preference is to forcibly set 10 or 100Mbps, full or half duplex on both ends, and not to rely on autonegotiation. Also, check the CPU of the switch. Try other ports on the switch. Replace the cable. Try a crossover between a PC and the VAX. There are so many little things that could be causing the problem. Mail me off-list if you would like a hand, and I'll see what I can do! Best wishes, Peter. From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Wed Jan 22 17:43:00 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape Message-ID: <0301222344.AA09490@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Kelly Leavitt wrote: > MS: Where can I find the instructions and content? ivan.Harhan.ORG:/pub/UNIX/4.3BSD-Quasijarus0a Since the original enquirer asked for 1600 BPI, you would go by FORMAT.1600. All files on my site are compressed with 4.3BSD-Quasijarus compress(1). The 1600 BPI distribution consists of two tapes (assuming you are using 2400 ft reels). The first tape contains binaries and the second tape contains sources. The tape with binaries must be written uncompressed, and the sources can be written compressed as they are on the FTP site to fit them on one tape. If the machine you will use to write the tapes isn't running 4.3BSD-Quasijarus0a and you don't have an uncompress utility that supports 4.3BSD-Quasijarus compress -s format, you will need to download and compile my compress utility in order to uncompress the binaries: ivan.Harhan.ORG:/pub/UNIX/components/compress.tar MS From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 22 17:46:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: laptop wanted; toshiba T1100+ questions In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20030122123206.0189ade0@mail.vauxelectronics.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Jan 2003, gil smith wrote: > 2) I recently got a toshiba T1100plus which seems to work well (except for > Also, when I run format on the machine (with 3.3), it formats the disks to > 300-something KB instead of 720KB. Running format /? does not seem to list > help info on the 3.3 dos, as it does on other versions I have used. I can > format a 720K disk on my win98 desktop machine, but I am wondering why dos > 3.3 is formatting to less that the drive can handle. Anyone with Toshiba > dos 3.2 out there? DRIVPARM /D:0 /F:2 in CONFIG.SYS or: DRIVER.SYS /D:0 /F:2 in CONFIG>SYS or: FORMAT /T:80/N:9 It doesn't KNOW that you have a drive other than 360K. The configuration data stored in CMOS didn't come about until 80286 machines. That's what DRIVPARM is for. IIRC, Toshiba had an MS-DOS 3.31 of their own. ALL versions of MS-DOS < 5.00 were specific to, and sold by, machine manufacturers. There was NO generic MS-DOS < 5.00. 3.20 was the first version of MS-DOS and PC-DOS for which all versions supported 3.5" drives. (Any support for 3.5" < 3.20 is a custom modification for a specific machine) 2.11 and 3.31 were the most heavily customized. From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Jan 22 17:50:01 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: A way to erase OTP components? References: <22257.1043240830@www65.gmx.net> <3E2F2622.7040006@tiac.net> <2615.4.20.168.215.1043278714.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3E2F2FFD.5040204@tiac.net> I currently work for a company that makes the X-Ray supplies for airport scanners. We have the full X-Ray emitter heads at test loads for the -180KV, 15ma supplies in-house. These scanners place the high voltage under computer control, they don't run at any one preset level. I gather that the operating point shifts as the tubes age, and perhaps also with the material being examined under software control. But crank one of these babies up to full power, and the X-rays will generate very high charge levels in the die and cook the part. The question now becomes, does the date go away before the transistors do? On a related note, I recently erased a (windowed) 27C512 using a UV led. I did'nt think it would work, but it did. Eric Smith wrote: >Bob Shannon wrote: > >>X-rays will erase the part at high energy levels, but this will also >>degrade the part to the point where it >>will fail soon, or die during erasure. >> > >A friend had a large quantity of programmed 27C512 OTP EPROMs, with >contents of no use to him. He tried to erase them using a commerical >X-ray machine, of the type used for inspecting assembled circuit boards >(to check solder joints on BGA packages) and was unable to produce any >noticable change to the part. > >This subject has been discussed on sci.electronics multiple times in the >past, and the consensus was that the frequency of Xrays is such that >they have no direct effect on the stored data. But at very high >exposures it is definitely possible to damage the part. > >Note that the exposure levels used for baggage inspection at airports >is far too low to cause any measurable effect on EPROMs. They are >generally set to substantially lower levels than medical X-rays >equipment. > >The normal erasure procedure for EPROMs is to use short-wave UV light, >nominally at a wavelength of 2537 angstroms (about 254 nm). Unlike the >more common long-wave UV (black lights), this *is* dangerous to your eyes; >never look into the light. The light bulbs and the window on the EPROM >are made from quartz rather than glass, because glass blocks most of the >short-wave UV. Suitable bulbs are commonly sold for germicidal use. > >In the mid-1980s, at least one Japanese semiconductor company offered >plastic windowed EPROMs. The package was a normal epoxy DIP package, >except that a square area in the center was molded from a different >plastic. The window was translucent (not transparent) to visible light. >These were less expensive than the usual ceramic windowed parts, but >more expensive than OTP parts. However, they could only be erased a >small number of times because the plastic window becomes opaque to the >shortwave UV with prolonged exposure. > >I'd heard of these plastic windowed packages at the time, but never >actually saw one until I purchased a coin-op video game board at an >auction. > >Eric > > > > > From doug_jackson at citadel.com.au Wed Jan 22 18:23:00 2003 From: doug_jackson at citadel.com.au (Doug Jackson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: A way to erase OTP components? Message-ID: A UV LED????? (Drops his project planning tools, and kind of wishes he was at the technical coal face once more) I was aware that we have White, and blue (Through Phospor, and funky doping), but these UV devices are new to me... regards Doug Jackson Director, Managed Security Services Citadel Securix +61 (0)2 6290 9011 (Ph) +61 (0)2 6262 6152 (Fax) +61 (0)414 986 878 (Mobile) Web: Offices in Melbourne, Sydney, Canberra, Hong Kong, Boston -----Original Message----- From: Bob Shannon [mailto:bshannon@tiac.net] Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:58 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: A way to erase OTP components? I currently work for a company that makes the X-Ray supplies for airport scanners. We have the full X-Ray emitter heads at test loads for the -180KV, 15ma supplies in-house. These scanners place the high voltage under computer control, they don't run at any one preset level. I gather that the operating point shifts as the tubes age, and perhaps also with the material being examined under software control. But crank one of these babies up to full power, and the X-rays will generate very high charge levels in the die and cook the part. The question now becomes, does the date go away before the transistors do? On a related note, I recently erased a (windowed) 27C512 using a UV led. I did'nt think it would work, but it did. Eric Smith wrote: >Bob Shannon wrote: > >>X-rays will erase the part at high energy levels, but this will also >>degrade the part to the point where it >>will fail soon, or die during erasure. >> > >A friend had a large quantity of programmed 27C512 OTP EPROMs, with >contents of no use to him. He tried to erase them using a commerical >X-ray machine, of the type used for inspecting assembled circuit boards >(to check solder joints on BGA packages) and was unable to produce any >noticable change to the part. > >This subject has been discussed on sci.electronics multiple times in the >past, and the consensus was that the frequency of Xrays is such that >they have no direct effect on the stored data. But at very high >exposures it is definitely possible to damage the part. > >Note that the exposure levels used for baggage inspection at airports >is far too low to cause any measurable effect on EPROMs. They are >generally set to substantially lower levels than medical X-rays >equipment. > >The normal erasure procedure for EPROMs is to use short-wave UV light, >nominally at a wavelength of 2537 angstroms (about 254 nm). Unlike the >more common long-wave UV (black lights), this *is* dangerous to your eyes; >never look into the light. The light bulbs and the window on the EPROM >are made from quartz rather than glass, because glass blocks most of the >short-wave UV. Suitable bulbs are commonly sold for germicidal use. > >In the mid-1980s, at least one Japanese semiconductor company offered >plastic windowed EPROMs. The package was a normal epoxy DIP package, >except that a square area in the center was molded from a different >plastic. The window was translucent (not transparent) to visible light. >These were less expensive than the usual ceramic windowed parts, but >more expensive than OTP parts. However, they could only be erased a >small number of times because the plastic window becomes opaque to the >shortwave UV with prolonged exposure. > >I'd heard of these plastic windowed packages at the time, but never >actually saw one until I purchased a coin-op video game board at an >auction. > >Eric > > > > > CAUTION - The information in this message may be of a privileged or confidential nature intended only for the use of the addressee or someone authorised to receive the addressee's e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster@citadel.com.au. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Citadel Securix. Feel free to visit the Citadel Securix website! Click below. http://www.citadel.com.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030122/b69c9663/attachment.html From sml49 at attbi.com Wed Jan 22 18:33:00 2003 From: sml49 at attbi.com (Seth Lewin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #405 - 38 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030122180054.35516.62089.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: >> I've got a Mac Plus I got of Ebay some time ago. Anyone any idea how I >> can (legally) obtain an OS for it? I'd like to add a HDD to it; I've an >> old 600Mb in an external box lying around, am I going to be able to use >> this (even if I only get a 20/40/80Mb partition on it I'm a happy >> chicken.). Apple distributed the OS free to all up to 7.5x. Probably 7.55 is the highest you should go on a Plus anyway with its limited RAM capabilities, and if you don't really need OS 7.xx stick with 6.08 which is more spry on a machine as old and slow as a Plus. If anyone needs any of the older OS versions I'll be glad to provide you with disk images on CD if downloading is too much bother. Drop me a line. ..SML From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Jan 22 18:36:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: A way to erase OTP components? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3638.4.20.168.215.1043282392.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Doug Jackson wrote: > A UV LED????? [...] > I was aware that we have White, and blue (Through Phospor, and funky > doping), but these UV devices are new to me... Blue LEDs don't require any phosphor. The phosphors are used to get *other* colors from blue or UV LEDs, such as white. Agilent made some really nice white LEDs that didn't have the remaining blue tint of the common ones, but they were expensive and no one wanted to pay the premium, so they've been discontinued. The earliest blue LEDs (Silicon Carbide) had very low output, so RGB LEDs needed two blue dice to one each red and green to get decent matching. However, so much R&D has been done to improve them that now blue LEDs (gallium nitride) are now the *most* efficient, at least in the visible spectrum. From sml49 at attbi.com Wed Jan 22 18:37:23 2003 From: sml49 at attbi.com (Seth Lewin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #405 - 38 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030122180054.35516.62089.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: > Anyone know where I can source the resistive touchpad element for an > Apple Messagepad 2x00 from? > Try posting your inquiry on the MacMarines list; send it to , a great resource for all things Apple. ..SML From jwillis at arielusa.com Wed Jan 22 18:46:01 2003 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB741@deathstar.arielnet.com> Sounds great. Let me know what you find out! Thanks, John "VAX Pirate" Willis -----Original Message----- From: Kelly Leavitt Sent: Wed 1/22/2003 4:03 PM To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' Cc: Subject: RE: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape Depending on where you would need it shipped, I'd try making one for you. I couldn't find the FTP site, but if given the file specifics, I've got a T1 available for the download too. MS: Where can I find the instructions and content? I'll read them over and see if my tape drive will do what is needed. It is pretty versitile. I use it to read and convert tapes from all kinds of systems. Kelly -----Original Message----- From: msokolov@ivan.harhan.org [mailto:msokolov@ivan.harhan.org] Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 1:41 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape jwillis@dahmer.vistech.net wrote: > Does anyone know of a source for Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape? (TU80) Anyone with a 9-track tape unit (I'm sure there are plenty such people on this list) should be able to write you a set of tapes from the images on my FTP site. There is even a FORMAT.1600 file there telling you what to put on which tape and in which order. A friend of mine is holding a working TU81 for me and while I would love to get it operational, I don't feel like bringing it into this apartment, especially since I may have to move again in 6 months... MS -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 4806 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030122/d1d68533/attachment.bin From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Jan 22 18:53:00 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: A way to erase OTP components? Message-ID: <200301230056.QAA24008@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Eric Smith" > >Doug Jackson wrote: >> A UV LED????? >[...] >> I was aware that we have White, and blue (Through Phospor, and funky >> doping), but these UV devices are new to me... > >Blue LEDs don't require any phosphor. The phosphors are used to get >*other* colors from blue or UV LEDs, such as white. Agilent made some >really nice white LEDs that didn't have the remaining blue tint of >the common ones, but they were expensive and no one wanted to pay >the premium, so they've been discontinued. > >The earliest blue LEDs (Silicon Carbide) had very low output, so RGB LEDs >needed two blue dice to one each red and green to get decent matching. >However, so much R&D has been done to improve them that now blue LEDs >(gallium nitride) are now the *most* efficient, at least in the visible >spectrum. > Hi That doesn't explain short wave UV LED's. If you had enough energy to erase an EPROM, it would be strong enough to damage the cornea of your eye. I've experimented with long wave UV when I was at Intel ( years ago ). Even a week under one of these had no effect. Dwight From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jan 22 18:55:01 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Jan 2003, Mark Tapley wrote: > Ade et al, > And, if you have a lot more money available: (just came up on > comp.sys.dec.micro) > > http://www.aub.nl/vaxsales/ > > a 3100-85 for 600 (money units not specified) > a 3100-80 for 500 > both for 1000. Each includes 3 VT510+keyboard. One includes a CD. Holy Toledo, Batman!!! I'd sell BOTH of my uVAX 3100-80s for $500 each! Hell, I'll take $350! Doc From kelly at catcorner.org Wed Jan 22 18:57:00 2003 From: kelly at catcorner.org (Kelly Leavitt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape Message-ID: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B808@308server.308dole.com> I've gotten the download info, I will need to compile the decompress to run on my unix, and I will give an update shortly. Where would you need the tape shipped? -----Original Message----- From: John Willis [mailto:jwillis@arielusa.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 7:50 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape Sounds great. Let me know what you find out! Thanks, John "VAX Pirate" Willis From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Wed Jan 22 19:01:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:58 2005 Subject: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C962@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> As said, these people are morons to deal with. They insist that these machines should be expensive, cos they paid a fortune for them a while ago. A while? Apparently, they got fucked over bigtime :) --fred > -----Original Message----- > From: Doc Shipley [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] > Sent: donderdag 23 januari 2003 1:58 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX > > > On Wed, 22 Jan 2003, Mark Tapley wrote: > > > Ade et al, > > > And, if you have a lot more money available: (just came up on > > comp.sys.dec.micro) > > > > http://www.aub.nl/vaxsales/ > > > > a 3100-85 for 600 (money units not specified) > > a 3100-80 for 500 > > both for 1000. Each includes 3 VT510+keyboard. One > includes a CD. > > Holy Toledo, Batman!!! I'd sell BOTH of my uVAX 3100-80s for $500 > each! > > Hell, I'll take $350! > > Doc > > From jwillis at arielusa.com Wed Jan 22 19:20:01 2003 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2BB745@deathstar.arielnet.com> Kelly: Please e-mail me off list, as this stupid outlook web access won't let me see your email address. Thanks, John -----Original Message----- From: Kelly Leavitt Sent: Wed 1/22/2003 5:40 PM To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' Cc: Subject: RE: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape I've gotten the download info, I will need to compile the decompress to run on my unix, and I will give an update shortly. Where would you need the tape shipped? -----Original Message----- From: John Willis [mailto:jwillis@arielusa.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 7:50 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape Sounds great. Let me know what you find out! Thanks, John "VAX Pirate" Willis -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 4078 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030122/ca9cd2bb/attachment.bin From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 22 19:26:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: Replies to posts In-Reply-To: <20030122120527.34617.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com> from "=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=" at Jan 22, 3 12:05:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 777 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030122/68e98383/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 22 19:27:29 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: Followup to Adrian's caption competition In-Reply-To: <3E2EFC02.40705@gifford.co.uk> from "John Honniball" at Jan 22, 3 08:16:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 771 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030122/55fbc5db/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 22 19:28:45 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: A plea to classiccmpers In-Reply-To: from "Daniel Hicks" at Jan 22, 3 12:41:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 360 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030122/c734b81d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 22 19:30:02 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: A plea to classiccmpers In-Reply-To: from "Daniel Hicks" at Jan 22, 3 02:39:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1811 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030122/305305db/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 22 19:31:23 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: A way to erase OTP components? In-Reply-To: <22257.1043240830@www65.gmx.net> from "Arno Kletzander" at Jan 22, 3 02:07:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1066 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030122/45d8793c/attachment.ksh From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 22 19:47:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: A plea to classiccmpers In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Jan 23, 2003 12:56:30 AM Message-ID: <200301230150.h0N1otn29258@shell1.aracnet.com> > Oh, and why did you include the entire message you're comemnting on here, > rather than the one or 2 lines that were relevant? And why do you top-post? > > -tony I've come to the realization that top-posting is yet another sin that Microsoft needs to answer for! In MS LookOut, it expects you to top-post to replies (I suspect this is yet another MS ploy to waste disk space[1] as I've also observed that people using MS LookOut tend to not know how to trim messages[2]). Zane [1] Just how much Stock does Microsoft and it's employee's have in companies that make Hard Drives? This is the only logical explaination for MS being such a waste of disk space. [2] Please note these observations are not targeted at anyone on this list, as I've made the observations elsewhere. From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jan 22 19:54:01 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C962@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > As said, these people are morons to deal with. > > They insist that these machines should be expensive, cos they paid a fortune > for them a while ago. A while? Apparently, they got fucked over bigtime :) Apparently. Mine cost $0.20/lb - roughly $5 each. I'll still sell 'em for $350 each.... Doc From marvin at rain.org Wed Jan 22 20:01:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: Top Posting, was Re: A plea to classiccmpers References: <200301230150.h0N1otn29258@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3E2F4D91.8F0D29A6@rain.org> Top posting is quite appropriate when not responding to specifics, and if someone needs to remember the context, they can scroll down. Having to unnecessarily scroll down is a major pain in the backside!!!!!! Generally speaking, I won't bother to read posts that start out with a lot of quoting rather than the meat of what someone is trying to say. "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > > Oh, and why did you include the entire message you're comemnting on here, > > rather than the one or 2 lines that were relevant? And why do you top-post? > > > > -tony > > I've come to the realization that top-posting is yet another sin that > Microsoft needs to answer for! In MS LookOut, it expects you to top-post to > replies (I suspect this is yet another MS ploy to waste disk space[1] as I've > also observed that people using MS LookOut tend to not know how to trim > messages[2]). From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Jan 22 20:07:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: Top Posting, was Re: A plea to classiccmpers In-Reply-To: <3E2F4D91.8F0D29A6@rain.org> References: <200301230150.h0N1otn29258@shell1.aracnet.com> <3E2F4D91.8F0D29A6@rain.org> Message-ID: <4111.4.20.168.215.1043287813.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Generally speaking, I won't bother to read posts that start out with a > lot of quoting rather than the meat of what someone is trying to say. Of course not. They should start with only a little bit of quoting to keep the context. Paraphrased from someone else's .sig: A: Because it disrupts the logical flow of the discussion. Q: Why it top-posting discouraged? From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Wed Jan 22 20:46:00 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape Message-ID: <0301230249.AA09712@ivan.Harhan.ORG> John Willis wrote: > U291bmRzIGdyZWF0LiBMZXQgbWUga25vdyB3aGF0IHlvdSBmaW5kIG91dCENCiANClRoYW5rcywN > CkpvaG4gIlZBWCBQaXJhdGUiIFdpbGxpcw0KDQoJLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0g > DQoJRnJvbTogS2VsbHkgTGVhdml0dCANCglTZW50OiBXZWQgMS8yMi8yMDAzIDQ6MDMgUE0gDQoJ > VG86ICdjY3RhbGtAY2xhc3NpY2NtcC5vcmcnIA0KCUNjOiANCglTdWJqZWN0OiBSRTogUXVhc2lq > YXJ1cyA0LjNCU0Qgb24gMTYwMGJwaSBtYWd0YXBlDQoJDQoJDQoNCglEZXBlbmRpbmcgb24gd2hl > cmUgeW91IHdvdWxkIG5lZWQgaXQgc2hpcHBlZCwgSSdkIHRyeSBtYWtpbmcgb25lDQpmb3IgeW91 > LiBJDQoJY291bGRuJ3QgZmluZCB0aGUgRlRQIHNpdGUsIGJ1dCBpZiBnaXZlbiB0aGUgZmlsZSBz > cGVjaWZpY3MsDQpJJ3ZlIGdvdCBhIFQxDQoJYXZhaWxhYmxlIGZvciB0aGUgZG93bmxvYWQgdG9v > [... ad nauseum] I can't read this!!! MS From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Wed Jan 22 20:49:01 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape Message-ID: <0301230251.AA09726@ivan.Harhan.ORG> John Willis wrote: > S2VsbHk6IFBsZWFzZSBlLW1haWwgbWUgb2ZmIGxpc3QsIGFzIHRoaXMgc3R1cGlkIG91dGxvb2sg > d2ViIGFjY2Vzcw0Kd29uJ3QgbGV0IG1lIHNlZSB5b3VyIGVtYWlsIGFkZHJlc3MuDQogDQpUaGFu > a3MsDQpKb2huDQoNCgktLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLSANCglGcm9tOiBLZWxseSBM > ZWF2aXR0IA0KCVNlbnQ6IFdlZCAxLzIyLzIwMDMgNTo0MCBQTSANCglUbzogJ2NjdGFsa0BjbGFz > c2ljY21wLm9yZycgDQoJQ2M6IA0KCVN1YmplY3Q6IFJFOiBRdWFzaWphcnVzIDQuM0JTRCBvbiAx > NjAwYnBpIG1hZ3RhcGUNCgkNCgkNCg0KCUkndmUgZ290dGVuIHRoZSBkb3dubG9hZCBpbmZvLCBJ > [...] I'm tired of this shit! MS From thompson at new.rr.com Wed Jan 22 20:53:00 2003 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: A plea to classiccmpers In-Reply-To: <200301230150.h0N1otn29258@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Jan 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > Oh, and why did you include the entire message you're comemnting on here, > > rather than the one or 2 lines that were relevant? And why do you top-post? > > > > -tony > > I've come to the realization that top-posting is yet another sin that > Microsoft needs to answer for! In MS LookOut, it expects you to top-post to > replies (I suspect this is yet another MS ploy to waste disk space[1] as I've > also observed that people using MS LookOut tend to not know how to trim > messages[2]). I've never quite understood the top posting furor. Whenever a top posting uproar appears on usenet, it just seems to be a way for the anal elitists in places like the perl newsgroups to get in enough complaints about the poster to justify posting a response to a question. (They won't post a reponse without first some minor quibble about your posting technique or eye color) I find top posted messages go quicker reading my mail on my (on topic) Wyse terminal. -- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jan 22 20:55:01 2003 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: Top Posting, was Re: A plea to classiccmpers In-Reply-To: <3E2F4D91.8F0D29A6@rain.org> from Marvin Johnston at "Jan 22, 3 06:04:01 pm" Message-ID: <200301230308.TAA09408@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Top posting is quite appropriate when not responding to specifics, and > if someone needs to remember the context, they can scroll down. Having > to unnecessarily scroll down is a major pain in the backside!!!!!! > Generally speaking, I won't bother to read posts that start out with a > lot of quoting rather than the meat of what someone is trying to say. I hate trying to sort this out, however, when someone is replying at the top and there's three or four different replies mixed together at the bottom (even if they did in fact make an attempt to relevantly trim lines). A. Because it disturbs the natural flow of questions. Q. Why is top posting considered annoying? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- BOND THEME NOW PLAYING: "Diamonds Are Forever" ----------------------------- From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 22 21:16:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: AXPpci33 progress In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030123031949.38701.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> OK... thanks to all who replied. First, I have managed to update my firmware to the latest one from the HP website (AXPpci33 Common Console X4.7-1860) by means of the mkboot program I found for DOS under the instructions for a different machine (rawrite did _not_ produce a bootable floppy). Second, I have dropped in a pair of 8Mx36 SIMMs (32MB each), giving me 96MB. None of my 64MB SIMMs are recognized as more than 16MB. They all have fast-page chips, (as far as I can tell), two have nothing but DRAM, 6 have a single logic IC per side in addition to the 36 RAM ICs (either a pair of 74FCT2827s or a pair of ABT16244s, whatever they are). But in any case, they are true parity, not logic parity. Third, I have determined that I do not own a compatible Ethernet card - my "tulip" cards are too new (21143 chips), apparently; and I don't have any DEC ISA NICs. So... at least with the latest firmware, I have verified that my 64MB SIMMs are of no use in this board, but at 96MB, that's enough to go play. I'm off to follow the Multia instructions in the OpenVMS FAQ and see if I can drop OpenVMS 6.1 on this thing. It'll make a nice low-power pal to my DEC 4000. Thanks again for all the tips. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From fauradon at frontiernet.net Wed Jan 22 21:20:01 2003 From: fauradon at frontiernet.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: Super Magnets - Don't try this at home! References: <20030122105106.T61714-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <000f01c2c29f$403ca4e0$0264640a@auradon.com> I can get a similar result with a five pound hammer... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Richman" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 8:51 AM Subject: OT: Super Magnets - Don't try this at home! > > I wonder if a bunch of those big-ass permanent magnets from hard drives > would... Hmm... ;-) > > --- > > http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/014/science/Zap_+.shtml > > "Just by pointing his super-magnets at the right spots on your head, Dr. > Alvaro Pascual-Leone can make you go momentarily mute or blind. > > > He can disrupt your working memory or your ability to recognize faces. He > can even make it harder for you to say verbs while nouns remain as easy as > ever. > > Weird, yes. Fringe, no." > > > > From rhudson at cnonline.net Wed Jan 22 21:55:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: //new// Apple I? Message-ID: <25A71B76-2E87-11D7-8ABF-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Look at: http://www.emulation.net/apple1/ There is an HTML apple 1 manual there, complete with schematics. From jwillis at dahmer.vistech.net Wed Jan 22 22:21:00 2003 From: jwillis at dahmer.vistech.net (jwillis@dahmer.vistech.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: Apologies for garbage e-mails Message-ID: <030122232348.22807d4c@dahmer.vistech.net> All: Many apologies for the series of garbage/MIME-encoded e-mails. I'm going to be using this account from now on, as it supports plain text. Again, very sorry. John Willis From donm at cts.com Wed Jan 22 23:26:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: A way to erase OTP components? In-Reply-To: <3E2F2FFD.5040204@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Jan 2003, Bob Shannon wrote: > I currently work for a company that makes the X-Ray supplies for airport > scanners. We have the full X-Ray > emitter heads at test loads for the -180KV, 15ma supplies in-house. > > These scanners place the high voltage under computer control, they don't > run at any one preset level. I gather > that the operating point shifts as the tubes age, and perhaps also with > the material being examined under software > control. > > But crank one of these babies up to full power, and the X-rays will > generate very high charge levels in the die and > cook the part. > > The question now becomes, does the date go away before the transistors do? > > On a related note, I recently erased a (windowed) 27C512 using a UV led. > I did'nt think it would work, but it did. How long did it take? - don > Eric Smith wrote: > > >Bob Shannon wrote: > > > >>X-rays will erase the part at high energy levels, but this will also > >>degrade the part to the point where it > >>will fail soon, or die during erasure. > >> > > > >A friend had a large quantity of programmed 27C512 OTP EPROMs, with > >contents of no use to him. He tried to erase them using a commerical > >X-ray machine, of the type used for inspecting assembled circuit boards > >(to check solder joints on BGA packages) and was unable to produce any > >noticable change to the part. > > > >This subject has been discussed on sci.electronics multiple times in the > >past, and the consensus was that the frequency of Xrays is such that > >they have no direct effect on the stored data. But at very high > >exposures it is definitely possible to damage the part. > > > >Note that the exposure levels used for baggage inspection at airports > >is far too low to cause any measurable effect on EPROMs. They are > >generally set to substantially lower levels than medical X-rays > >equipment. > > > >The normal erasure procedure for EPROMs is to use short-wave UV light, > >nominally at a wavelength of 2537 angstroms (about 254 nm). Unlike the > >more common long-wave UV (black lights), this *is* dangerous to your eyes; > >never look into the light. The light bulbs and the window on the EPROM > >are made from quartz rather than glass, because glass blocks most of the > >short-wave UV. Suitable bulbs are commonly sold for germicidal use. > > > >In the mid-1980s, at least one Japanese semiconductor company offered > >plastic windowed EPROMs. The package was a normal epoxy DIP package, > >except that a square area in the center was molded from a different > >plastic. The window was translucent (not transparent) to visible light. > >These were less expensive than the usual ceramic windowed parts, but > >more expensive than OTP parts. However, they could only be erased a > >small number of times because the plastic window becomes opaque to the > >shortwave UV with prolonged exposure. > > > >I'd heard of these plastic windowed packages at the time, but never > >actually saw one until I purchased a coin-op video game board at an > >auction. > > > >Eric > > > > > > > > > > > > > From loedman1 at juno.com Thu Jan 23 00:41:00 2003 From: loedman1 at juno.com (loedman1@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape Message-ID: <20030122.224132.-112713.2.loedman1@juno.com> "John Willis" wrote: > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2C1E2.BE18F359 >> Content-Type: text/plain; >> charset="utf-8" >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 >> >> QXdlc29tZS4gSSBkb24ndCBoYXZlIHRoZSBkcml2ZSB5ZXQsIGJ1dCBpdCBzZWVtcyB0byBtZ SB0 >> byBiZSB0aGUgYmVzdA0Kb3B0aW9uIGZvciBnZXR0aW5nIEJTRCBsb2FkZWQgb24gbXkgVkFYI DEx >> Lzc1MC4NCiANCkFwb2xvZ2llcyBpZiB0aGlzIGlzIGNvbWluZyB0aHJvdWdoIGFzIE1JTUUuI E1p >> Y3JvJGhhZnQgb3V0bG9vayB3ZWINCmFjY2VzcyB3b24ndCBsZXQgbWUgc2V0IA0KcGxhaW4gd GV4 >> dC4NCiANClRoYW5rcyBhZ2FpbiwNCkpvaG4gVy4NCg0KCS0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZ S0t >> LS0tIA0KCUZyb206IE1pY2hhZWwgU29rb2xvdiANCglTZW50OiBUdWUgMS8yMS8yMDAzIDExO jQx >> IFBNIA0KCVRvOiBjY3RhbGtAY2xhc3NpY2NtcC5vcmcgDQoJQ2M6IA0KCVN1YmplY3Q6IFJlO iBR > >[...] >> [rest of garbage stripped] >Would you mind writing in ASCII so that people using Classic Computers can read >it? I have no idea what you've wrote as I can't read it. MS I second that request Rich From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Thu Jan 23 00:49:01 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: OT (plug) reply: RE: A plea to classiccmpers Message-ID: If you want the flexibility of a "hotmail" ((I do, and I have it), but don't want all the animated ads, get a bundle pack like Norton Internet Security. I don't work for 'em, and I've only recently started using the package, but it has a WONDERFUL ad-ware blocker that leaves your viewed web page intact, while simply screening the ad location (turning it black or transparent). I paid $29.95 for my copy, including a 1-year subscription to NAV's virus updates, on the website: NextAisle. Also, there's a couple of freebie packages available on C|Net's Download.com: "Adware," whick you can use to clean your system and registry of cached ad files, and "Pop-up Stopper," which does exactly what it says it does. Both occationally leave you with WIndows Message Service error messages (Of course! Your Adware thinks its broken if it can't cover your screen with its ad!), but these are background, and much easier to dump than the ads themselves. Cheers! Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, TX; USA Phone (210) 592-3110, Fax (210) 592-2048 edward.tillman@valero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of "Daniel > Hicks" > Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 2:14 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: A plea to classiccmpers > > > There's nothing wrong with Hotmail. And, of course, I realize this > mailing > > > > Personally, I prefer not to conduct my correspondence thru a barrage > of > > animated adverts and relentless popups and other Crapola - YMMV > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3257 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030123/9d89c7ec/attachment.bin From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Thu Jan 23 01:07:01 2003 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: VAX VMS Question In-Reply-To: <3E2F2CAC.6050402@POGGS.CO.UK> References: <4356058381ECB8498BB30B34D7AE3AEF043BB2C8@rtints5.rti.org> <4356058381ECB8498BB30B34D7AE3AEF043BB2C8@rtints5.rti.org> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030123180503.02354070@mail.vsm.com.au> At 11:43 PM 22/01/2003 +0000, Peter Hicks wrote: >Check the speed and duplex of the ports on your switch. The preference is >to forcibly set 10 or 100Mbps, full or half duplex on both ends, and not >to rely on autonegotiation. It's sure to be autonegotiation - this is clearly the work of the devil (or some company that wants to make lots of money for their consultants). Is this "feature" more than 10 years old - if so, will it be appropriate to rant on about this here :-) I think I've spent more time cursing this feature than almost any other network abomination. The good? aspect is that you can really impress customers when consulting by fixing their real network problems in 10 minutes. It's even more impressive if they're running multiple protocols over a mis-configured link. TCP/IP appears to work fine, DECnet appears horrible - something to do with TCP/IP being pessimistic about the links it has to use, DECnet being a lot more hopefull. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Thu Jan 23 01:13:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: A plea to classiccmpers Message-ID: The going rates for businesses in our area (south Texas, using Southwestern Bell) is to bill by the minute, with start/stop time and ring-time measured and billed in 6-second increments. If your party answers before the 3rd ring, there's no ring charge. It they answer between the 2nd & 4th ring, there's a 6-second charge. If they answer after the 4th ring, there's a full minute charge. The main portion of the call is billed by the minute, with your final minute being charged in 6-second increments. Southwestern Bell has a near monopoly here, but the competition (after their lure-in, loss-leader specials) is worse, since the also have to pay Southwestern Bell to use the same trunk lines... -sigh- Ed Tillman edward.tillman@valero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of chris > > Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 1:05 PM > To: Classic Computer > Subject: Re: A plea to classiccmpers > > >Pay by the minute for connection time? You're getting screwed. > > Maybe they are, but from what I gather, that is not unusual outside the > USA. > > Even here in the USA, if you are on a dialup connection, and calling from > a business... guess what, you are probably paying by the minute. Most > business lines in the USA are billed per minute of connect time (or > worse, by the "message unit"). > > - -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2848 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030123/95779b88/attachment.bin From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Jan 23 02:39:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: BBC Micro - assemblers - info needed References: <01ac01c2bf0c$fb942ce0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <1043257261.3e2ed7add4679@www.cirt.net> Message-ID: <001801c2c2bb$6f14c420$0100000a@milkyway> > Silly question; why don't you use the assembler built into BBC Micro BASIC? I > used this for years for many serious programs and never had a problem... (I > should be able to remember how to use it still!) Because I hate having to write a BASIC backend to get the assembler to run, then there's code relocation issues if I want to make Paged ROM images... For those things, an assembler is much easier. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Thu Jan 23 04:51:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: Free stuff Message-ID: Hmm... Could you please list the dimensions/size/capacity of these drives? I'm trying to cobble together an authentic late-XT or early-AT clone system, and would like to get hold of one or two fairly early (as authentic as possible) 1/2- or 1/4- height hard drives. Note: If there are any serious cc history buffs out there, I'm curious when the first CDs and or sound cards were installed in marketed XT/AT systems. Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, TX; USA Phone (210) 592-3110, Fax (210) 592-2048 edward.tillman@valero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of > loedman1@juno.com > Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 7:23 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Free stuff > > The following hard drives were delivered to me yesterday > > (1) Conner CP3000 > (2) Seagate ST-125 > (3) Maxtor 7213AT > (4) Maxtor 7245AT > (5) Maxtor LXT340A > (6) Maxtor MXT540A (3) > (7) Conner CFA340A > (8) Seagate ST-225 (2) > (9) Seagate ST-238R > > Also received a bunch of miscellaneous chips and cards that I need to > sort and identify that will be available > > Rich Stephenson > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2871 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030123/92760343/attachment.bin From tim.myers at sunplan.com Thu Jan 23 05:04:01 2003 From: tim.myers at sunplan.com (Tim Myers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: Free to a good home - will be skipped next week. Message-ID: <000201c2c2cf$427aad30$0201000a@thornton.protasis.co.uk> IBM PS/2 model 35SX - HDD of some description, 1920Kb RAM. Also with Proprinter XL, and IBM Monitor (heavy burnin). This is going in the skip next week, if anyone wants to rescue it from Ellesmere Port (UK) then let me know and I'll rescue it. Tim. From tim.myers at sunplan.com Thu Jan 23 05:16:01 2003 From: tim.myers at sunplan.com (Tim Myers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: Bulk erasing disk packs Message-ID: <000801c2c2d0$f2602ad0$0201000a@thornton.protasis.co.uk> I've managed to get a haul of DEC disk packs, the condition on getting them out is that I erase them (no drive hardware available unfortunately). Some kind of bulk eraser required, I feel, but can I make one / get hold of one easily? The haul is this: 21 x DEC RL02K-DC 10 x DEC RL01K-DC 3 x DEC RM03-P - I believe these are new and unused. 30 x HP 13356 - These 'belong' to the HP 1000 systems that are being moved out this weekend. Tim. From GOOI at oce.nl Thu Jan 23 05:43:00 2003 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: Bulk erasing disk packs Message-ID: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF6410CBAB6@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> !! RED ALERT !! If you do not have the drive hardware (and computer), you *cannot* erase the disk packs without rendering them worthless! Bulk erase will destroy the data *AND* the servo tracks! If you do bulk erase the disk packs, you can safely throw them away because most of us (all?) do not have the equipment to rewrite the servo track information. BTW. I would like an other RM03 disk pack. I have got only a few of those. I hope to spin up my RM03 in a few months; spare fuses are standing by ... - Henk. > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim Myers [mailto:tim.myers@sunplan.com] > Sent: donderdag 23 januari 2003 12:17 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Bulk erasing disk packs > > > I've managed to get a haul of DEC disk packs, the condition on getting > them out is that I erase them (no drive hardware available > unfortunately). Some kind of bulk eraser required, I feel, but can I > make one / get hold of one easily? > > The haul is this: > 21 x DEC RL02K-DC > 10 x DEC RL01K-DC > 3 x DEC RM03-P - I believe these are new and unused. > > 30 x HP 13356 - These 'belong' to the HP 1000 systems that are being > moved out this weekend. > > Tim. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Jan 23 06:55:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: A plea to classiccmpers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E2FF520.10145.104309F9@localhost> > > Pay by the minute for connection time? You're getting screwed. > [snipped] > Yeah, like Hotmail is the Deal of the Century... I guess where you live > they never heard of the rest of the world, or that Classiccmp just *might* > be read in COTUS (Countries Other Than the US)... hmmm? Wasn't that Countries OutsIde The US ? SCNR > When I lived in India, my ISP charged by the message unit, it was not > uncommon for my monthly bill to be Rs. 15,000 to 17,000. And the Rupee is > 48 to the dollar - you do the math. And beeing billed by the minute online time may still be better then any flat rate. For example, with the phone provider I switched to recently (owned by the city of Munich), Internet access is included in the basic service (20 Euro/Month), you'll get the usual dozend of Mailboxes, 200 MB of mailbox, some 20 MB of webserver space, and a dial in at1 Euro-Cent per minute online time (ISDN 64k - double this for a 128k dual chanel link). An online flat rate would be availabe at some 10-20 Euro (only night or whole day) - roughly the equivalent of 1000 or 2000 minutes online time. Since the connection is billed by the minute, and connect time is less than 5 seconds, you usualy configure the router to cut the connection after a minute of idle. If one isn't gameing all the time, a online charges are for Joe Average below 5 Euro/Month. Well, I have to admit, these numbers are based on my whifes usage, since I did subscribe to their DSL service, which is still quite expensive. I pay a 57 Euro/Month for the basic phone service and a 1.5M/192k DSL flat rate. Still, I prefer to be billed for what services I use. The best way would be a monthly payment of Zero Euro and all billed based on what I'm using. > Of course you seem to miss the point - that on a universal mailing list > like this, there is a certain etiquette that evolved so all users of the > List can gain maximum benefit - not just the vast majority of MS users. > I am running a strictly ASCII mailer - Pine to be exact, under a Unix > shell account. Mime, Base64, attachments, jpegs... and long, untrimmed > multi-hundred line (already-read) messages with "Me Too!" prepended is > what he (and I) (and many others) are complaining about. John, exactly my opinion here. And to me it isn't the online time and the amount of money charged for it, it's all the rubbish which I have to pass over. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Jan 23 07:08:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: Heathkit H-11A (LSI-11) on eBay In-Reply-To: <20030122230953.G57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <3E2EC221.15251.B93D4E7@localhost>; from Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de on Wed, Jan 22, 2003 at 16:09:05 CET Message-ID: <3E2FF838.7282.104F2065@localhost> > > As it looks now, Jochen Kunz may bring a PDP 11 as > > his exhibition for VCFe - > Slowly, slowly, slowly. I still do not have the machine in my kitchen. > Not to speak about the repairs that it and the RK07 drive will need. The > machine and the drive where stored in a garage for some years and are a > bit "rotten"... Well, never underestimate the power of a Deadline :) > And I think Andreas has enough PDP-11s to play with. All > he need is papertape reader. I think this is the least to carry to the VCFe site :) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 23 08:19:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? In-Reply-To: <10301212056.ZM467@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030123090324.10c73466@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:56 PM 1/21/03 GMT, you wrote: >On Jan 21, 13:01, chris wrote: > >> The tank is good to about 200 PSI, and comes with a regulator assembly >> and hose. The compressor is good to 250 PSI so it fills it nicely. >> >> I added a coiled hose and blow gun attachment, and the system works quite >> well. The compressor is a tad loud, so sometimes I walk away and close my >> office door when it is filling (the tank does NOT have a blow off valve, >> so I can't walk away for too long or I risk overfilling, so mostly I just >> go deaf when it fills). > >I was wondering about excess pressure the other day. I thought about a >pressure switch to shut off the motor, but they seem to be quite expensive. > Or am I just looking in the wrong places? Does anyone know where I could >get a pressure switch suitable for about 120 psi, cheaply? I don't know about the UK but such switches are readily available in the US. They're used for controlling the pumps on individual household water wells. You can find them in any decent hardware store and they sell for about $10. They're usually marked 20-40 or 40-60. The first number is the pressure (in PSIG) at which the contacts close and the second number is the pressure at which they open*. However under the cover you will find two adjusting screws that you alter both settings. My Sears compressor came standard with that type switch. BTW the contacts are 4PST but they're usually wired up as DPST and are rated for at least 230 VAC and plenty of current since they're designed to control motors with large inductive loads. IIRC the pipe connection is 3/8" NPT. *These switches are purposely designed to open in the pressure gets too low. That's to prevent the pump from running continuesly if the pipe should break and all pressure is lost. I'm sure that this feature can be adjusted out. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 23 08:20:43 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030123084724.223f56a8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:01 PM 1/21/03 -0500, Chris wrote: > >And the other major downside to all this... that dust has to go >somewhere... so my work bench now has to get regular scrubbing to remove >the crap that has gone airborne and resettled (and I'm afraid of what all >winds up in my lungs). Because of this, I have tried to move to a vaccum >for much of the initial dirt pickup, and switch to the air for the final >details. That's why I always use a vacuum cleaner with an upholstery brush to remove as much dust as possible THEN blow the remianing stuff out using the blower port on the vacuum. The brush really helps in getting the stuff out of cracks and crevices. I use a small (~15" x 5" dia) AC powered vacuum made by Hoover. It developes plenty of suction and vacuum and it's very compact. The blower is also very helpful in getting water out from under the ICs and other hidden places if I wash something. Joe From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Thu Jan 23 08:36:00 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: Bulk erasing disk packs References: <000801c2c2d0$f2602ad0$0201000a@thornton.protasis.co.uk> Message-ID: <3E2FFEB0.98A20982@compsys.to> >Tim Myers wrote: > I've managed to get a haul of DEC disk packs, the condition on getting > them out is that I erase them (no drive hardware available > unfortunately). Some kind of bulk eraser required, I feel, but can I > make one / get hold of one easily? > The haul is this: > 21 x DEC RL02K-DC > 10 x DEC RL01K-DC > 3 x DEC RM03-P - I believe these are new and unused. > 30 x HP 13356 - These 'belong' to the HP 1000 systems that are being > moved out this weekend. Jerome Fine replies: As almost everyone will warn you, probably most, if not all of the media, also have servo tracks which must remain if the media are to be useful by normal users in the future. FOR SURE that is the case with the RL01/RL02 media. What is required, if you want the media to remain useful, is to use the normal hardware and write in the normal way anything else in place of the current data. Normally, a pass of all zeros followed by all ones will do the job - unless you get the CIA involved - then you probably need to have about seven passes at the minimum (so I have heard) with random values in each pass. But I suspect that two passes with zeros and ones should be adequate for data that is not related to national security. Also, you are supposed to erase them within 1 microsecond, 1 million microseconds, 1 trillion microseconds? Depending on the answer, as long as you erase them before passing them on, you can wait to obtain the correct hardware that is needed. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Jan 23 08:38:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: Ring Charge In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3E300D31.17865.10A10B48@localhost> > The going rates for businesses in our area (south Texas, using > Southwestern Bell) is to bill by the minute, with start/stop time and > ring-time measured and billed in 6-second increments. If your party > answers before the 3rd ring, there's no ring charge. It they answer > between the 2nd & 4th ring, there's a 6-second charge. If they answer > after the 4th ring, there's a full minute charge. A RING CHARGE ? By Jove! That's the most ridicoulous thing I ever hered after being introduced to roaming charges in the US... Are you for real? YOu are jokeing, right? Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Jan 23 08:39:07 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: A plea to classiccmpers In-Reply-To: <200301230150.h0N1otn29258@shell1.aracnet.com> References: from "Tony Duell" at Jan 23, 2003 12:56:30 AM Message-ID: <3E300D31.32753.10A10B58@localhost> > > Oh, and why did you include the entire message you're comemnting on here, > > rather than the one or 2 lines that were relevant? And why do you top-post? > I've come to the realization that top-posting is yet another sin that > Microsoft needs to answer for! In MS LookOut, it expects you to top-post to > replies ([...] tend to not know how to trim messages[2]). > [2] Please note these observations are not targeted at anyone on this list, > as I've made the observations elsewhere. It's just connected. if you don't care about the bunch below your Text, you're not going to edit it. In fact, I met more than one person complaining about MS Outlook for always inserting the old message. With this attitude it's hard to tell anything about usefull editing and in-band comments. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From RCini at congressfinancial.com Thu Jan 23 08:43:08 2003 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: Applied Microsystems ICE Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E512739F@MAIL10> Hello, all: I came across an Applied Microsystems in-circuit emulator on eBay and wondered if anyone on the list has any familiarity with it. It's model 627593, 750-03207-00 and comes with one pod, model 68360-33. Any idea how this is configured?. Google info is pretty limited except for the announcement that Applied went out of business and sold out to Metroworks. Thanks. Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. First Vice President Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Jan 23 09:03:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: Top Posting, was Re: A plea to classiccmpers In-Reply-To: <3E2F4D91.8F0D29A6@rain.org> Message-ID: <3E3012FB.3458.10B7AA9A@localhost> > Top posting is quite appropriate when not responding to specifics, and > if someone needs to remember the context, they can scroll down. Having > to unnecessarily scroll down is a major pain in the backside!!!!!! > Generally speaking, I won't bother to read posts that start out with a > lot of quoting rather than the meat of what someone is trying to say. Top-Posting vs. After-Quote: Well, the closest 'real' life equivalence I know are protokolls in radio communication as for example used in the service, where (according to the situation) you have to repeat the Question/Order/Whatever before ackknowledgeing or answering. As you know, I prefer In-Band responses, since this is the only way to get an easy and reproduceable reference. Now, if the a response has no relation/reference to information in a prior mail, quoting is useless at all. So the original post doesn't need to be duplicated. Aren't there even two types of header reserved for message linking ? In-Reply-To and Reference ? I don't know if the list manages the headers, most mailers can do so. If correctly set, all you have to do is following the presented link - pr put your reader in threaded mode and you'll follow a mailing list as you do on a news group. In-Band response is also close to the other form of opinion vs. opinion text I know, the way you'll write a statement to someone elses work, for example in a book, when you try to show specific points of another persons work. Anyway. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From vaxman at earthlink.net Thu Jan 23 09:17:45 2003 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: Applied Microsystems ICE In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E512739F@MAIL10> Message-ID: I used the applied microsystems emulators about 15 years ago, and they were pretty nice at the time. I believe the pod is for the Motorola 68360 microcontroller which was one of the 68300 family, based on the 68020 core plus microcontroller type peripherals. Regards, Clint On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Cini, Richard wrote: > Hello, all: > > I came across an Applied Microsystems in-circuit emulator on eBay > and wondered if anyone on the list has any familiarity with it. It's model > 627593, 750-03207-00 and comes with one pod, model 68360-33. Any idea how > this is configured?. Google info is pretty limited except for the > announcement that Applied went out of business and sold out to Metroworks. > > Thanks. > Rich > > ========================== > Richard A. Cini, Jr. > First Vice President > Congress Financial Corporation > 1133 Avenue of the Americas > 30th Floor > New York, NY 10036 > (212) 545-4402 > (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) > > From allain at panix.com Thu Jan 23 10:22:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: OT: the 1U system References: Message-ID: <007401c2c2fb$fd7b6ee0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Semi-off Topic: I was at LinuxWorld yesterday oogling all the 1U rackmount cluster systems there, and all that they could fit into them. It was almost funny how the tried and true classiccmp method of mounting the planar components pointing up, so the heat "falls up and off" kinda got lost. All but one of the 1 and 2U rackmount system sellers had their boards mounted horizontally, trapping the heat, and they had to compensate by mounting tiny overworked fans all over the place to compensate. Hilarious in a way, and I imagine if we look back in 5 years this will all be different. John A. From allain at panix.com Thu Jan 23 10:24:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: Top Posting, was Re: A plea to classiccmpers References: <3E3012FB.3458.10B7AA9A@localhost> Message-ID: <008d01c2c2fc$397dfb60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> If you can get your whole reply down to 24 lines, or maximally 45, I don't care where your part of the post is. This does imply an 'always trim' philosophy. It's much preferred (and obvious) to have every line of the referred-to be carated(>) and also good (and less obvious) to have the new lines set off from the old by a whitespace line, rather than run together. (it's starting to sound like programming conventions) just my $0.02 contribution John A. From whdawson at localisps.net Thu Jan 23 10:49:01 2003 From: whdawson at localisps.net (whdawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: New York Times Article: Vintage PC's, Fondly Collected Message-ID: Spotted this one today. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/23/garden/23COMP.html People and items included in the article: "Collectible Microcomputers" Michael Nadeau www.classictechpub.com Sellam Ismail www.vintage.org Apple I. 'til next time, Bill http://www.swtpc.com Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Arthur C. Clarke From kth at srv.net Thu Jan 23 11:40:01 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: Bernoulli Dual 20Z Message-ID: <3E302ED7.403@srv.net> I found a Bernoulli Dual 20Z drive in a thrift shop. Does anyone know anything about it? It has a SCSI interface on it, but I don't even know what capacity of disks it can handle, and where can I find software to drive it. They has some "90" disks there too, which do fit into the drive, but I'd like more info on it than that. From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Jan 23 12:09:01 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: Free to a good home - will be skipped next week. Message-ID: <0301231812.AA10365@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Tim Myers wrote: > IBM PS/2 model 35SX - HDD of some description, 1920Kb RAM. Also with > Proprinter XL, and IBM Monitor (heavy burnin). > > This is going in the skip next week, if anyone wants to rescue it from > Ellesmere Port (UK) then let me know and I'll rescue it. Will you ship it across the pond? MS From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Jan 23 12:19:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: Heathkit H-11A (LSI-11) on eBay In-Reply-To: <3E2FF838.7282.104F2065@localhost>; from Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de on Thu, Jan 23, 2003 at 14:12:08 CET References: <3E2EC221.15251.B93D4E7@localhost>; <20030122230953.G57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <3E2FF838.7282.104F2065@localhost> Message-ID: <20030123191752.W57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.01.23 14:12 Hans Franke wrote: > Well, never underestimate the power of a Deadline :) My deadline and priority is the diploma exam in March / April. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jan 23 12:22:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: Free stuff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E30339A.1030805@internet1.net> Tillman, Edward wrote: > Note: If there are any serious cc history buffs out there, I'm curious when > the first CDs and or sound cards were installed in marketed XT/AT systems. Do you mean PC (generically), instead of XT/AT? Sound cards and cd-roms came after the XT and AT. Sound cards and cd-roms would have been more 386/486. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From tim.myers at sunplan.com Thu Jan 23 12:24:01 2003 From: tim.myers at sunplan.com (Tim Myers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: Free to a good home - will be skipped next week. In-Reply-To: <0301231812.AA10365@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <001401c2c30d$b392aac0$5b76033e@local.sunplan.com> If I can get time tomorrow I can certainly try and get FedEx in to collect it; we're moving some large HP gear out over the next few days, and I just found the PS/2 today. It has to be gone by Monday. Tim. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Michael Sokolov > Sent: 23 January 2003 18:13 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Free to a good home - will be skipped next week. > > > Tim Myers wrote: > > > IBM PS/2 model 35SX - HDD of some description, 1920Kb RAM. > Also with > > Proprinter XL, and IBM Monitor (heavy burnin). > > > > This is going in the skip next week, if anyone wants to > rescue it from > > Ellesmere Port (UK) then let me know and I'll rescue it. > > Will you ship it across the pond? > > MS > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jan 23 12:50:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:28:59 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? In-Reply-To: Joe "Re: What's better than canned air?" (Jan 23, 9:03) References: <3.0.6.16.20030123090324.10c73466@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <10301231853.ZM2171@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 23, 9:03, Joe wrote: > At 08:56 PM 1/21/03 GMT, pete wrote: > >I was wondering about excess pressure the other day. I thought about a > >pressure switch to shut off the motor, but they seem to be quite expensive. > > Or am I just looking in the wrong places? > I don't know about the UK but such switches are readily available in the US. They're used for controlling the pumps on individual household water wells. I don't know about the UK either ;-) but that seems like a useful tip. Thanks! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jan 23 12:52:52 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: BBC Micro - assemblers - info needed In-Reply-To: "Philip Pemberton" "Re: BBC Micro - assemblers - info needed" (Jan 23, 8:42) References: <01ac01c2bf0c$fb942ce0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <1043257261.3e2ed7add4679@www.cirt.net> <001801c2c2bb$6f14c420$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: <10301231841.ZM2166@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 23, 8:42, Philip Pemberton wrote: > > Silly question; why don't you use the assembler built into BBC Micro > BASIC? I > > used this for years for many serious programs and never had a problem... > (I > > should be able to remember how to use it still!) > Because I hate having to write a BASIC backend to get the assembler to run, > then there's code relocation issues if I want to make Paged ROM images... > For those things, an assembler is much easier. The "backend" part is hardly onerous, and the ability to do all sorts of tricks makes it a pretty good macroassembler. As for relocation, that's why you use both P% (program counter) and O% (where the code will be assembled). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 23 13:32:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Bernoulli Dual 20Z In-Reply-To: <3E302ED7.403@srv.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Kevin Handy wrote: > I found a Bernoulli Dual 20Z drive in a thrift shop. Does anyone know > anything about it? > > It has a SCSI interface on it, but I don't even know what capacity of > disks it can handle, and where can I find software to drive it. > > They has some "90" disks there too, which do fit into the drive, but I'd > like more info on it than that. It's basically the precursor to the ZIP drive. It's a removeable carthridge disk drive with a 20MB capacity for each disk. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 23 13:33:47 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Ring Charge In-Reply-To: <3E300D31.17865.10A10B48@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > > The going rates for businesses in our area (south Texas, using > > Southwestern Bell) is to bill by the minute, with start/stop time and > > ring-time measured and billed in 6-second increments. If your party > > answers before the 3rd ring, there's no ring charge. It they answer > > between the 2nd & 4th ring, there's a 6-second charge. If they answer > > after the 4th ring, there's a full minute charge. > > A RING CHARGE ? > > By Jove! That's the most ridicoulous thing I ever hered after > being introduced to roaming charges in the US... Are you for > real? YOu are jokeing, right? Yep, for real. Some phone companies will not ring the line for more than so many rings these days. After the phone rings for a certain amount of time, a message will come on saying something like "the person you are calling is not home". The idea is that it costs them in energy bills for the 90VAC ring. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jan 23 14:02:54 2003 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Intel 8751 In-Reply-To: <3E2F240A.7040806@tiac.net> Message-ID: <0323E340-2F0E-11D7-991C-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Wednesday, January 22, 2003, at 06:06 PM, Bob Shannon wrote: > You gotta be kidding! > > The 8751 is an EPROM version of the 8051, the most popular > microprocessor ever made > (in terms of sheer numbers that is). I read a very interesting statistic in an issue of Circuit Cellar Ink a little less than a year ago. Apparently 8051 (and 8051 derivative) processors are produced in quantities in excess of one million per day. Yes, per DAY. The air conditioner in my office has an 8051 in it. I have a Cisco Catalyst 5000 network switch in my computer room...each and every board on its bus has an 8032 (which is a ROM-less 8052, which in turn is a "bigger" 8051) on it. The list goes on and on. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "Wear whatever you want...Just don't be surprised St. Petersburg, FL if you wind up with a blow-gun dart in your prosthetic boobies." -Kurt Huhn From allain at panix.com Thu Jan 23 14:18:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: TF86/TK86 References: <007401c2c2fb$fd7b6ee0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <01ba01c2c31c$f2da7960$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I have a lead here on a TF86-BX that I'd like to take up but while the seller says it is indeed a TF86 (DSSI), the drive has labels on it that say TK86. My question is: are these in fact the same thing? I can't recall hearing of a TQK8x controller, in support of his claim. Thanks in advance, John A. From dittman at dittman.net Thu Jan 23 14:40:01 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: TF86/TK86 In-Reply-To: <01ba01c2c31c$f2da7960$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Jan 23, 2003 03:21:00 PM Message-ID: <200301232043.h0NKh39q002649@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I have a lead here on a TF86-BX that I'd like to take up > but while the seller says it is indeed a TF86 (DSSI), the > drive has labels on it that say TK86. > My question is: are these in fact the same thing? > I can't recall hearing of a TQK8x controller, in support > of his claim. The TK86 requires either a DSSI or SCSI board. With the DSSI board, it's a TF86; with the SCSI board, it's a TZ86. I have not seen a controller board that will directly control the TK86 drive. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From sipke at wxs.nl Thu Jan 23 15:09:00 2003 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Free stuff References: <3E30339A.1030805@internet1.net> Message-ID: <015d01c2c324$2be71a40$030101ac@boll.casema.net> The first soundblaster was an 8-Bit PC-XT slot card and could be used in a PC/XT ! (Still got one around here somewhere) Same goes for propriety CD-ROM drives like Sony, Mitshumi an Panasonic (Non ATAPI)) Sipke de Wal --------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx --------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 7:25 PM Subject: Re: Free stuff > Tillman, Edward wrote: > > Note: If there are any serious cc history buffs out there, I'm curious when > > the first CDs and or sound cards were installed in marketed XT/AT systems. > > Do you mean PC (generically), instead of XT/AT? Sound cards and cd-roms > came after the XT and AT. Sound cards and cd-roms would have been more > 386/486. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Thu Jan 23 16:01:00 2003 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Apple C3 In-Reply-To: <10301231853.ZM2171@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030123090324.10c73466@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030123170256.02342c98@pop-server> Does anybody know what an Apple C3 is. Friend has one that I can have but doesn't seem to know exactly what it is. Before I take the long ride can somebody tell me. I did a web search without finding an answer. From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Thu Jan 23 16:35:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: TF86/TK86 Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C96D@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> John, > I have a lead here on a TF86-BX that I'd like to take up > but while the seller says it is indeed a TF86 (DSSI), the > drive has labels on it that say TK86. > My question is: are these in fact the same thing? > I can't recall hearing of a TQK8x controller, in support > of his claim. Yes, this is a DSSI drive. There is a SCSI version of it, the TZ86, which basically includes the SCSI-to-DSSI board. I have several TF85's of both types... very nice drives. The 86's and 87's are higher capacity- I believe *but am unsure* that the 87 is SCSI-only. --f From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Jan 23 16:37:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: BBC Micro - assemblers - info needed References: <01ac01c2bf0c$fb942ce0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <1043257261.3e2ed7add4679@www.cirt.net> <001801c2c2bb$6f14c420$0100000a@milkyway> <10301231841.ZM2166@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <008601c2c330$6940dbe0$0100000a@milkyway> pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: > The "backend" part is hardly onerous, and the ability to do all sorts > of tricks makes it a pretty good macroassembler. As for relocation, > that's why you use both P% (program counter) and O% (where the code > will be assembled). Right, that settles it. I'm off to have another read through my copies of "Assembly Language Programming for the BBC Microcomputer" and the "New Advanced User Guide". The latter happens to be very useful for low-level hackery with the Master. Lots of fun. :-) And while we're on the subject of BBC Micros, has anyone noticed http://www.vintagecomputer.co.uk yet? Oh, come on, ?24.99 for a Viglen dual 5.25 drive? ?4.99 for a pack of ten 5.25 disks? OK, here's what I paid for my Master 128: Master 128 base unit ?0.00 Microvitec Cub 653 monitor ?0.00 EPSON LX-80 that still needs a new ribbon ?0.00 Viglen dual 5.25" 40/80 track disc drive ?0.00 Small box of ROM carts, about half working ?0.00 In fact, the only stuff I paid for was the software - I bought a box of stuff from someone at the local Acorn Computer User Group (which in my case is WROCC - www.wrocc.org.uk) for ?20. For my twenty quid I got fifty (IIRC) blank discs, some Beebug software (Teletext Pack, Astaad, etc) and a load of other stuff. She Who Must Be Obeyed wasn't too pleased, but for ?20, how could I refuse? :-) Still, while I've got my EPROM programmer out, anyone care to suggest some good ROM-based software for the BBC B or Master? Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Jan 23 16:45:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: BBC Micro - assemblers - info needed References: <01ac01c2bf0c$fb942ce0$0100000a@philpem.dyndns.org> <1043257261.3e2ed7add4679@www.cirt.net> <001801c2c2bb$6f14c420$0100000a@milkyway> <10301231841.ZM2166@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <008a01c2c331$a71b6740$0100000a@milkyway> Another quickie about the BBC Master 128 - I seem to have lost the function key strip that came with the machine - does anyone know if a scan of the keystrip exists online? Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 23 16:49:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Apple C3 In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030123170256.02342c98@pop-server> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Gene Ehrich wrote: > Does anybody know what an Apple C3 is. Friend has one that I can have > but doesn't seem to know exactly what it is. Before I take the long ride > can somebody tell me. I did a web search without finding an answer. I've certainly never heard of it. Can you get a picture of it? My guess is that he's just incorrectly recalling the model number. It's possibly an Apple /// or a //c? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jruschme at netzero.net Thu Jan 23 17:17:00 2003 From: jruschme at netzero.net (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Apple C3 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > From: Sellam Ismail > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 5:49 PM > Subject: Re: Apple C3 > > > On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Gene Ehrich wrote: > > > Does anybody know what an Apple C3 is. Friend has one that I can have > > but doesn't seem to know exactly what it is. Before I take the long ride > > can somebody tell me. I did a web search without finding an answer. > > I've certainly never heard of it. Can you get a picture of it? > > My guess is that he's just incorrectly recalling the model number. It's > possibly an Apple /// or a //c? Or a Macintosh LC3. <<>> From donm at cts.com Thu Jan 23 17:27:00 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Bernoulli Dual 20Z In-Reply-To: <3E302ED7.403@srv.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Kevin Handy wrote: > I found a Bernoulli Dual 20Z drive in a thrift shop. > Does anyone know anything about it? > > It has a SCSI interface on it, but I don't even know > what capacity of disks it can handle, and where can > I find software to drive it. Well, it was an Iomega product. Have you checked out their website? - don > They has some "90" disks there too, which do fit > into the drive, but I'd like more info on it than that. > > > From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Jan 23 17:50:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: TF86/TK86 In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C96D@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <000001c2c33a$b01e4b10$cb87fe3e@athlon> > > I have a lead here on a TF86-BX that I'd like to take up > > but while the seller says it is indeed a TF86 (DSSI), the drive has > > labels on it that say TK86. My question is: are these in fact the same > > thing? I can't recall hearing of a TQK8x controller, in support > > of his claim. When the T?8x series started out each drive had three "personalities". So you had the TF85 (DSSI), TZ85 (SCSI) and TK85 (typically attached to HSC - I cannot remember the exact interface used). The Tx85 and Tx86 could read TK50/TK70 media but could not be used on the earlier controllers (so there is no TQK85 controller). I don't think the DSSI drives went beyond TF86. The Tx87 was the last drive to have read compatibility with the older TK50/TK70 media. The TK87N lost that ability (basically a cost-reduced TK87) and the 88s and higher continued the trend. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From kth at srv.net Thu Jan 23 17:59:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Bernoulli Dual 20Z References: Message-ID: <3E3087B5.6070707@srv.net> Don Maslin wrote: >On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Kevin Handy wrote: > > > >>I found a Bernoulli Dual 20Z drive in a thrift shop. >>Does anyone know anything about it? >> >>It has a SCSI interface on it, but I don't even know >>what capacity of disks it can handle, and where can >>I find software to drive it. >> >> > >Well, it was an Iomega product. Have you checked out their >website? > - don > > They have nothing about it there that I could find. > > >>They has some "90" disks there too, which do fit >>into the drive, but I'd like more info on it than that. >> >> >> >> >> > > > > From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Jan 23 18:02:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: TF86/TK86 In-Reply-To: <000001c2c33a$b01e4b10$cb87fe3e@athlon> References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C96D@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> <000001c2c33a$b01e4b10$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: <1189.4.20.168.215.1043366628.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Antonio Carlini wrote: > When the T?8x series started out each drive had three > "personalities". So you had the TF85 (DSSI), TZ85 (SCSI) > and TK85 (typically attached to HSC - I cannot remember the > exact interface used). I haven't heard of a TK85. If it attached to an HSC, and it wasn't DSSI or SCSI, the only other obvious choice would be STI. Most STI tape drives had models of the form TAxx, such as TA79, so I would have expected an STI model of the Tx85 to be a TA85. But perhaps it's an exception to the rule. From doug_jackson at citadel.com.au Thu Jan 23 18:05:01 2003 From: doug_jackson at citadel.com.au (Doug Jackson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Decserver 700-16 firmware Message-ID: Hi, I have got my hands on a couple of old dec terminal servers, and am having trouble finding the firmware to make them work. These devices do not have flash, and are attempting to boot from a bootp server, so I guess that they need an image. Does anybody on the list still have an image for these boxes. Unfortunately, without software, the boxes appear to be junk, and it would be really great to get these boxes going, so that I could connect to various systems (including my SBC6120) from my pc (via TCP!) regards Doug Jackson Director, Managed Security Services Citadel Securix +61 (0)2 6290 9011 (Ph) +61 (0)2 6262 6152 (Fax) +61 (0)414 986 878 (Mobile) Web: Offices in Melbourne, Sydney, Canberra, Hong Kong, Boston CAUTION - The information in this message may be of a privileged or confidential nature intended only for the use of the addressee or someone authorised to receive the addressee's e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster@citadel.com.au. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Citadel Securix. Feel free to visit the Citadel Securix website! Click below. http://www.citadel.com.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030123/55f4cb86/attachment.html From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Jan 23 18:19:01 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: TF86/TK86 In-Reply-To: <1189.4.20.168.215.1043366628.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <000401c2c33e$a634ebf0$cb87fe3e@athlon> > I haven't heard of a TK85. If it attached to an HSC, and it > wasn't DSSI or SCSI, the only other obvious choice would be > STI. Most STI tape drives had models of the form TAxx, such > as TA79, so I would have expected an STI model of the Tx85 to > be a TA85. But perhaps it's an exception to the rule. That 3rd personality could well have been a TA85 (rather than TK85). I don't have the relevant Sales Update articles to hand, and they seem to have vanished from the HP website (or just hidden themselves well). Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Jan 23 18:28:01 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Decserver 700-16 firmware In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000701c2c33f$e7cb94f0$cb87fe3e@athlon> >I have got my hands on a couple of old dec terminal servers, >and am having trouble finding the firmware to make them work. >These devices do not have flash, and are attempting to boot >from a bootp server, so I guess that they need an image. >Does anybody on the list still have an image for these boxes. >Unfortunately, without software, the boxes appear to be junk, These devices transitioned to DNPG some time ago. They still seem to sell the flash cards: http://digitalnetworks.net/products/view-product-group.html?cat=Access_S ervers They may also sell the downloadable image (assuming noone else digs it out for you). Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From kth at srv.net Thu Jan 23 18:36:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Decserver 700-16 firmware References: Message-ID: <3E30905A.5090109@srv.net> Doug Jackson wrote: > Hi, > > I have got my hands on a couple of old dec terminal servers, and am > having trouble finding the firmware to make them work. > > These devices do not have flash, and are attempting to boot from a > bootp server, so I guess that they need an image. > > Does anybody on the list still have an image for these boxes. > Unfortunately, without software, the boxes appear to be junk, and it > would be really great to get these boxes going, so that I could > connect to various systems (including my SBC6120) from my pc (via TCP!) > > regards > The server probably wants to use MOP to download it's software. I believe it was normally distributed on the VMS consolidated distributation, if you happen to have a copy of that. I don't know if the 700 did telnet, but it would definately have LAT. LAT and MOP software is availble for various Linux, BSD, and of course, VMS systems. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 23 18:40:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Intel 8751 In-Reply-To: from "Dave McGuire" at Jan 22, 3 03:01:57 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 758 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030123/c7f33e4e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 23 18:42:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Top Posting, was Re: A plea to classiccmpers In-Reply-To: <3E2F4D91.8F0D29A6@rain.org> from "Marvin Johnston" at Jan 22, 3 06:04:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 765 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030123/fe6f433b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 23 18:43:20 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Bulk erasing disk packs In-Reply-To: <000801c2c2d0$f2602ad0$0201000a@thornton.protasis.co.uk> from "Tim Myers" at Jan 23, 3 11:16:59 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 660 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030123/95dfd1e6/attachment.ksh From jrasite at eoni.com Thu Jan 23 18:58:00 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Bernoulli Dual 20Z References: <3E3087B5.6070707@srv.net> Message-ID: <3E309055.5070306@eoni.com> 13,000 hits in a Google of "bernoulli drive" You might give it a try... In the PC world, smartdrv should handle it. In the Mac world, drop me a line. In the Sun world I haven't a clue. This might help... Jim Kevin Handy wrote: > Don Maslin wrote: > >> On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Kevin Handy wrote: >> >> >> >>> I found a Bernoulli Dual 20Z drive in a thrift shop. >>> Does anyone know anything about it? >>> >>> It has a SCSI interface on it, but I don't even know >>> what capacity of disks it can handle, and where can >>> I find software to drive it. From dittman at dittman.net Thu Jan 23 19:24:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Decserver 700-16 firmware In-Reply-To: from "Doug Jackson" at Jan 24, 2003 11:07:45 AM Message-ID: <200301240126.h0O1Qd5Q004709@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I have got my hands on a couple of old dec terminal servers, and am having > trouble finding the firmware to make them work. > > These devices do not have flash, and are attempting to boot from a bootp > server, so I guess that they need an image. > > Does anybody on the list still have an image for these boxes. > Unfortunately, without software, the boxes appear to be junk, and it would > be really great to get these boxes going, so that I could connect to various > systems (including my SBC6120) from my pc (via TCP!) What model number do you have (like DSRVW-ZC or -YC or whatever)? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From paulpenn at knology.net Thu Jan 23 19:52:53 2003 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul Pennington) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Intel 8751 References: <200301202133.VAA21015@citadel.metropolis.local> <3E2F240A.7040806@tiac.net> Message-ID: <003101c2c34b$d6c9ad20$6401a8c0@knology.net> > Stan Barr wrote: > > ...I came across a couple of 8751s (labelled Intel '80). A quick google search > failed to turn up a data sheet, anyone any ideas where I can look? I was at Borders bookstore today browsing through the electronics shelf and saw a large book that seemed to have everything you would to know about 8751's, including about 20 projects, right down to pc board layouts. Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia From Charles at socketcom.com Thu Jan 23 19:55:45 2003 From: Charles at socketcom.com (Charles Ader) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: OT and Stupid, was RE: Top Posting, was Re: A plea to classiccmpers Message-ID: <0751EFBE597394499B68C730740E0828098816@socket011.socketcomm.com> > if someone needs t [ --------------------- ] hey can scroll down. Having [ What about those that ] You know, I prefer t [ prefer to center post ] the comments. It keeps the arguemnt in a logica [ comments that are off ] [ topic and just plain ] > to unnecessarily s [ stupid! :) ] n in the backside!!!!!! [ --------------------- ] From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Jan 23 20:22:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Great Finds Today Message-ID: <025201c2c34f$edf515d0$7209dd40@oemcomputer> A friend gave me a LM-2 Logic monitor from Global Specialties Corp. It has a button called the Family Threshold Select with 5 settings: RTL, DTL, TTL, HTL, and CMOS. Did a google search trying to find a manual but no luck so far. Got a brand new unopened 500+ piece puzzle called MICROCHIP and it's dated 1983the cover of the box is a huge picture of a microchip circuit design. Not sure if I should break the seal and put it together or just leave it untouched for now? Data General walkabout computers (3) not tested yet. Need power adapters. From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Jan 23 20:34:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Great Finds Today In-Reply-To: <025201c2c34f$edf515d0$7209dd40@oemcomputer> References: <025201c2c34f$edf515d0$7209dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Keys wrote: > A friend gave me a LM-2 Logic monitor from Global Specialties Corp. It has a > button called the Family Threshold Select with 5 settings: RTL, DTL, TTL, > HTL, and CMOS. Now here's a Funny Thing: I have a Continental Specialties LM-2 logic monitor with exactly the same features... you have the big 14-pin DIP clamp with the LEDs and the designator strips, as well? Mine came from a long-ago swap meet, and most likely both our manuals are hiding in the same place... but it's pretty intuitive how it works.. you dial up the family, attach the red and black leads to GND and +V, attach the clamp to the DUT, and watch Das Blinkenlights. I've used several times to repair vintage Stuff. Cheers John From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Jan 23 20:56:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Great Finds Today References: <025201c2c34f$edf515d0$7209dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <027901c2c354$89400aa0$7209dd40@oemcomputer> Thanks for the great tips I will have give it a try next week. On the dip clamp is the name Continental Specialties but the unit itself has the name Global on it. Serial number 224030 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lawson" To: "cctalk@classiccmp" Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 8:37 PM Subject: Re: Great Finds Today > > > On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Keys wrote: > > > A friend gave me a LM-2 Logic monitor from Global Specialties Corp. It has a > > button called the Family Threshold Select with 5 settings: RTL, DTL, TTL, > > HTL, and CMOS. > > > Now here's a Funny Thing: I have a Continental Specialties LM-2 logic > monitor with exactly the same features... you have the big 14-pin DIP > clamp with the LEDs and the designator strips, as well? > > Mine came from a long-ago swap meet, and most likely both our manuals > are hiding in the same place... but it's pretty intuitive how it works.. > you dial up the family, attach the red and black leads to GND and +V, > attach the clamp to the DUT, and watch Das Blinkenlights. I've used > several times to repair vintage Stuff. > > Cheers > > John > > From thedm at sunflower.com Thu Jan 23 22:01:00 2003 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Apple II workstation Card Help References: <025201c2c34f$edf515d0$7209dd40@oemcomputer> <027901c2c354$89400aa0$7209dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <001501c2c35d$7e1d9d00$6501a8c0@thedm> Anyone have a disk for this critter? I really have a need for some tinkering! Thanks, Bill From jss at subatomix.com Thu Jan 23 22:42:46 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Intel 8751 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9358854828.20030123222704@subatomix.com> On Thursday, January 23, 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > The original 8051 really suffers from only having one 16 bit DPTR (data > address register). This has been corrected on some of the improved > versions now available, but code written for those is no longer portable > to all 8051 derivatives. I wrote a bit of firmware for the Dallas DS80C520, one of the improved versions. It was great fun. There is a *lot* of functionality packed into that chip. -- Jeffrey Sharp From freddy at kotelna.sk Thu Jan 23 22:44:32 2003 From: freddy at kotelna.sk (Adrien Farkas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Digital AXPpci33 "noname" questions In-Reply-To: <000301c2c1a4$5ec373e0$cb87fe3e@athlon> References: <20030121224501.57134.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> <000301c2c1a4$5ec373e0$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: <20030122180216.GB31314@kotol.kotelna.sk> Antonio Carlini (arcarlini@iee.org) wrote : > I have not heard back as to whether the Multia floppy image > was a success, but I'll happily have another go. Point me > at where the image you want is (otherwise I'm bound > to pick the wrong one) and I'll see if I can build a > floppy using OpenVMS on a VAX and then dd to produce > an image I can email to you. It was definitely a successful step, however it is not usable for AXPpci. Just go to ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Alpha/firmware/archive, find your model name and go on. Update floppy is just a FAT-formatted floppy with srm.exe and/or arc.exe and an update script. You can make yourself easily with a notebook. Cheers, -- freddy ...for more info 'finger freddy@kotol.kotelna.sk' From subsolar at subsolar.org Thu Jan 23 22:45:44 2003 From: subsolar at subsolar.org (Paul) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: A plea to classiccmpers In-Reply-To: References: <200301221732.MAA06554@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: <1043262164.1100.0.camel@azure.subsolar> On Wed, 2003-01-22 at 11:41, Daniel Hicks wrote: > > Pay by the minute for connection time? You're getting screwed. NO, your probably living in Europe. Paul From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Jan 23 22:46:56 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Ressurecting Mac Plus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of chris > Sent: 22 January 2003 18:13 > To: Classic Computer > Subject: RE: Ressurecting Mac Plus > > > >Go to Apple's website and dig down in the downloads section - they've got > >(or did have last year) all versions of MacOS from v1 up to 7.5. The > >software license normally says that if you own a Mac you can download the > >OS. If they haven't got older versions any more I've got 'em all here :) > > Last I checked, they removed all except for System 6.0.8 and System 7.5.3. > > The do have updaters for most of the systems, but they are just updates > that need the original system to run. Pity. According to my archives I've got the following: Sys 0.97/Finder 1.0 Sys 1.1/Finder 1.1 Sys 2.0/Finder 1.1g-4 (if the filename's right) Sys 2.0/Finder 4.1-4 Sys 3.0/Finder 5.1 Sys 3.0/Finder 5.1-4 Sys 3.1/Finder 5.2 Sys 3.2/Finder 5.3-8 Sys 3.3/Finder 5.4 Sys 3.3/Finder 5.4-4 and something called '128k Mac System Software' which I've not tried since I ain't got an original Mac, though I guess it should run on a Plus too. Oh yeah, floppy sets for a few 6.x versions as well as 7.0. Somewhere :) cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Jan 23 22:48:08 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Mark Tapley > Sent: 22 January 2003 16:00 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX > > I know a guy in Houston, TX who at last count had a "stack" of > those with 24M (max) RAM and hard drives with OVMS installed, and > for which > he's trying to find good homes. I have not mentioned to him the > possibility > of transatlantic shipping, but let me know if you are interested. Depending on shipping costs I'd be interested....the VLC is a lovely little machine. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From crl at rti.org Thu Jan 23 22:49:20 2003 From: crl at rti.org (Lindahl, Carl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: VAX VMS Question Message-ID: <4356058381ECB8498BB30B34D7AE3AEF043BB2D4@rtints5.rti.org> Thanks for the info! that is basically what I was thinking, but I hadn't forced the port speed and duplex yet. I turned some debugging features on and see exactly what you were talking about ! Thanks Carl -----Original Message----- From: Fred N. van Kempen [mailto:Fred.van.Kempen@microwalt.nl] Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 1:47 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: Lindahl, Carl Subject: RE: VAX VMS Question Yes. On the 2950, set the port to 10Mbps, half-duplex, no flow control, no spanning tree: int fastethernet 0/xxx speed 10 duplex half flow none spanning-tree portfast no shutdown or somesuch. The Cisco ASIC's hate the VAX ethernet port, same here on my 4000. Basically, the ether connection is bouncing between between various modes, making it slow and such. --fred From jss at subatomix.com Thu Jan 23 22:51:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Fwd: Newbrain w/ Stepper In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20030113161719.00acbd90@pob.huji.ac.il> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20030113161719.00acbd90@pob.huji.ac.il> Message-ID: <13960444975.20030123225334@subatomix.com> I'm not sure if this is on- or off-topic. Replies go to the original author. ---------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: Ron Amir Date: Monday, January 13, 2003, 8:20:39 AM I work with a Newbrain computer model AD to command a stepper (micromanipulator). I have a mechanical problem with the stepper. There is no manufacturer name written on the stepper. The only thing written is "West Germany" with a logo I can't recognize. As Grundy Buisness Systems were the manufacturers of the Newbrain system I looked for their website but did not find much. I found your e-mail address when I searched the net for "newbrain". I would be grateful if you could tell me who sould I contact regarding my stepper problem? ---------- End forwarded message ---------- -- Jeffrey Sharp From labomb at rochester.rr.com Thu Jan 23 22:52:17 2003 From: labomb at rochester.rr.com (Scott LaBombard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Any Cromemco USERS? Message-ID: <009d01c2c253$c1ba95a0$02a8a8c0@rochester.rr.com> Bill, >Something about the 16FDC doesn't play nice with the IMSAI front panel. >You can't deposit or examine memory with it on the bus. Even with the >schematics, I don't see what the problem is. Do you know a solution by >any chance? Assuming that you have verified that the front panel works correctly by removing the 16FDC (and only the 16FDC), then the first thing that I would check is to see if the 16FDC is grounding pin 20 (UNPROT) of the s-100 bus. If it is, a quick glance at the Imsai panel schematic will show that all of the flip-flops and monostable multivibrators associated with the Examine and Deposit functions will be disabled. The 'J' input of the flip-flops need to be high, and the 'CLR' pin on the mono-multis need to be high in order for the these specific panel functions to work. Best regards, Scott From mhstein at canada.com Thu Jan 23 22:53:31 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Any Cromemco USERS? Message-ID: <01C2C245.27ED72C0@mse-d03> ------------------Original Message-------------- From: "Bill Sudbrink" To: Subject: RE: Any Cromemco USERS? Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 09:51:34 -0500 Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > I'd be interested in knowing how you got CP/M onto the Cromix > diskettes and configured for its memory model? The hard way (and the fun way)! I wrote my own CBIOS, bootstrap, and a program to format a diskette, cross-compiled on a modern intel box, wrote a program to massage the compiler output into a text stream that the ROM monitor on the 16FDC would like and then used the monitor to run the formatter. Finally, pumped over the bootstrap, CP/M and my CBIOS and used the sector write facility of the 16FDC ROM to write the whole thing to a diskette a sector at a time. It was very gratifying when the sucker booted up the first time. MS: !!!!!! Very gratifying indeed, I'll bet!!! Wow - that's REALLY doing it the hard way, but maybe it was the only way...! How long did that take? ----------------------------------------- > TM100 drive(s) I assume? Actually, a pair of SA-851s. MS: Ah yes, you did say Imsai chassis, not Cromemco... ------------------------------------------ Something about the 16FDC doesn't play nice with the IMSAI front panel. You can't deposit or examine memory with it on the bus. Even with the schematics, I don't see what the problem is. Do you know a solution by any chance? MS: Afraid not, the Cromemcos I worked with were all essentially stock. Someone else asked me about that a while back; apparently there is a document somewhere talking about using a 16FDC with a front panel. I assume you have the complete manual, esp. PP 64-65, and have set the switches to map out the RDOS ROM? I wouldn't think the interrupt chain or the serial port have anything to do with it, but if your front panel uses I/O ports, I don't think they can easily be disabled on the FDC. Sorry, wish I could help. mike From mrfusion at uranium.vaxpower.org Thu Jan 23 22:54:53 2003 From: mrfusion at uranium.vaxpower.org (Lord Isildur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: TF86/TK86 In-Reply-To: <01ba01c2c31c$f2da7960$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: Looking at my TF86 drive, there is a card that has a DSSI connector and on the other end, just like the scsi/TK-interface adaptor card in the scsi-TK50s and TK70s, is the same connector and thinner cable that the other TK drives have as their native interface. The impression I got was that the dssi card was just a dssi TK adaptor. a test would be to put the dlt drive on a tk70 controller or put a tk50 or such drive on the dssi card and see if either of them showed up on the other interface... never tried it though isildur On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, John Allain wrote: > I have a lead here on a TF86-BX that I'd like to take up > but while the seller says it is indeed a TF86 (DSSI), the > drive has labels on it that say TK86. > My question is: are these in fact the same thing? > I can't recall hearing of a TQK8x controller, in support > of his claim. > > Thanks in advance, > John A. > > > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Jan 23 22:56:05 2003 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: TF86/TK86 In-Reply-To: <01ba01c2c31c$f2da7960$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <007401c2c2fb$fd7b6ee0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030123142655.026c1a20@mcmanis.com> The *drive* is a TK86, there are two bridge cards, one to make it a TF86 and one to make it a TZ86. I used to have one of each but I used the TF bridge card in a 4000/600. --Chuck At 03:21 PM 1/23/03 -0500, John Allain wrote: >I have a lead here on a TF86-BX that I'd like to take up >but while the seller says it is indeed a TF86 (DSSI), the >drive has labels on it that say TK86. >My question is: are these in fact the same thing? >I can't recall hearing of a TQK8x controller, in support >of his claim. > >Thanks in advance, >John A. From jss at subatomix.com Thu Jan 23 22:57:19 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Fwd: Small VME Backplanes? In-Reply-To: <20030121180818.2992.qmail@mail.seefried.com> References: <20030121180818.2992.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Message-ID: <11159459167.20030123223708@subatomix.com> Please reply to the original author, not me. ---------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: Ken Seefried Date: Tuesday, January 21, 2003, 12:08:18 PM Subject: Small VME Backplanes? Does anyone know of a source for inexpesive, small VMEBus backplanes? I'm looking for something 1, 2, 3 or 4 slots, preferably 6U, so that I can put VMEBus cards in a case smaller than a 19" rackmount. Cardcage would be optional. Ken ---------- End forwarded message ---------- -- Jeffrey Sharp From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Jan 23 22:58:35 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Best of Byte Vol. II In-Reply-To: <001501c2c35d$7e1d9d00$6501a8c0@thedm> Message-ID: I'm looking for The Best of Byte, Vol II. I've got #1 already. I loaned out II years ago and never got it back. Anyone have a copy they'd part with? Thanks. g. From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jan 23 23:02:01 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Free stuff In-Reply-To: <015d01c2c324$2be71a40$030101ac@boll.casema.net> References: <3E30339A.1030805@internet1.net> <015d01c2c324$2be71a40$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: <3E30C988.3070801@internet1.net> Sipke de Wal wrote: > The first soundblaster was an 8-Bit PC-XT slot card > and could be used in a PC/XT ! > > (Still got one around here somewhere) > > Same goes for propriety CD-ROM drives like > Sony, Mitshumi an Panasonic (Non ATAPI)) > > Sipke de Wal Right, but it would have been added much later. If he's going after hard drives of the correct vintage, why add a much later sound card, cd-rom, etc? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jan 23 23:04:01 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Apple C3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E30C9E3.7000905@internet1.net> Sellam Ismail wrote: > My guess is that he's just incorrectly recalling the model number. It's > possibly an Apple /// or a //c? > > Sellam Ismail .....or a G3, which is much more modern. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jan 23 23:06:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: OT and Stupid, was RE: Top Posting, was Re: A plea to classiccmpers In-Reply-To: <0751EFBE597394499B68C730740E0828098816@socket011.socketcomm.com> References: <0751EFBE597394499B68C730740E0828098816@socket011.socketcomm.com> Message-ID: <3E30CA32.9000808@internet1.net> Charles Ader wrote: >>if someone needs t [ --------------------- ] hey can scroll down. Having > > [ What about those that ] > You know, I prefer t [ prefer to center post ] the comments. It keeps the > arguemnt in a logica [ comments that are off ] > [ topic and just plain ] > >>to unnecessarily s [ stupid! :) ] n in the backside!!!!!! > > [ --------------------- ] > > Wow, now that certainly is original :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From mbg at TheWorld.com Thu Jan 23 23:08:01 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:00 2005 Subject: Digital AXPpci33 "noname" questions References: <20030121224501.57134.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> <000301c2c1a4$5ec373e0$cb87fe3e@athlon> Message-ID: <200301240510.AAA108117303@shell.TheWorld.com> >It was definitely a successful step, however it is not usable for >AXPpci. Just go to ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Alpha/firmware/archive, >find your model name and go on. > >Update floppy is just a FAT-formatted floppy with srm.exe and/or arc.exe >and an update script. You can make yourself easily with a notebook. I found the firmware update floppy I generated for my AXPpci33... If the person who needs it will contact me, I'll make take an image of it and make it available... Megan From wmsmith at earthlink.net Thu Jan 23 23:48:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:01 2005 Subject: New York Times Article: Vintage PC's, Fondly Collected In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000c01c2c36c$b578eac0$e242cd18@D73KSM11> > Spotted this one today. > > http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/23/garden/23COMP.html > > People and items included in the article: > > "Collectible Microcomputers" > Michael Nadeau > www.classictechpub.com > Sellam Ismail > www.vintage.org > Apple I. > From n8uhn at yahoo.com Fri Jan 24 00:25:52 2003 From: n8uhn at yahoo.com (Bill Allen Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:03 2005 Subject: ibm sys/36 5360 basic needed Message-ID: <20030124062832.94056.qmail@web40710.mail.yahoo.com> wow, no one on this list has a copy of basic for the sys/36? not even sellam? i - do have other sys/36 pgms to trade like rpg2 and the 3270 and pc emmulator. Bill __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From swperk at earthlink.net Fri Jan 24 00:50:01 2003 From: swperk at earthlink.net (Stan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:03 2005 Subject: Problem with 9836C floppy drive Message-ID: Hello, I just brought home a late serial numbered HP 9836C in mint condition. It looks fine, shows almost no signs of use (and absolutely no signs of abuse), but it seems to have a startup problem. When I power it up, it goes through its POST and in the list of found hardware are the lines: . . . Flexible Disc Flexible Disc Failed . . . After the POST, but before the 9836C looks for an OS to load, it emits a series of high and low pitched beeps (low, low, high, low, high, high, low). After that, it is able to load an OS (HP BASIC) and run fine, with the exception that the left-hand floppy drive is inaccessible. I've taken a known good floppy drive, floppy controller, and even the CPU card from a 9826A (I swapped the PROM on the CPU cards to convince the test CPU that it was a 9836C), but the error is identical in every case. It also makes no difference if there are cards in the card cage or not, if a hard drive is attached to the HP-IB interface or not, or if there are formatted floppy discs in the drives or not. I found a 9836C on eBay, and strangely enough it shows the same problem at startup as mine: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2303481339 What's going on here? What is the meaning of the beep pattern? Is there a fix? Thanks in advance, Stan From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Jan 24 01:10:01 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:03 2005 Subject: Problem with 9836C floppy drive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000401c2c378$24a59b40$e242cd18@D73KSM11> > After the POST, but before the 9836C looks for an OS to load, > it emits a series of high and low pitched beeps (low, low, > high, low, high, high, low). After that, it is able to load > an OS (HP BASIC) and run fine, with the exception that the > left-hand floppy drive is inaccessible. > Here's some "useful" information from my 9836 manual under the heading "Boot ROM Beeper": "In addition to displaying an error and waiting a minute, the Boot ROM 4.0 sounds a pattern of beeps. The boot ROM is actually sending an error message to a service person. If this error pattern is sounded, check the display for an error message. If the message indicates something you cannot correct, or if the display is not working, you should call HP for service. Your service representative may ask you to restart the self-test so he can listen to the error code sounded." So, I conclude that the audible error code means nothing more than what is printed on the screen and is sounded in the event that the display isn't working. -W From kurtk7 at visi.com Fri Jan 24 02:13:55 2003 From: kurtk7 at visi.com (Kurtk7) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:03 2005 Subject: Seeking manual for the Jupiter 4000 Message-ID: <005a01c2c380$df257780$0200000a@p166mmx> I recently came by a Jupiter 4000 and am in need of a manual. If anyone might have one that I could get a copy of, I would appreciate it. Oh, this is my first posting. Strange, but I remember the Classiccmp having a nicer website recently, at least a front end, and it appears to have disappeared. (If I have error'd in my posting protocols despite the FAQ, please let me know.) Thanks Kurt From franco.tassone at inwind.it Fri Jan 24 03:29:54 2003 From: franco.tassone at inwind.it (Franco Tassone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:03 2005 Subject: Ultrix v4.3 install on mVaxII Message-ID: <00b001c2c38b$818a7340$3b0810ac@emsargroup.com> Hi all, I own two mVax, a mVax3100 and an mVaxII, the first one equipped with cdrom and tz30, the second with a tk50. I've installed Ultrix v4.3 on the mVax3100 from the cdrom distribution, and would like to install it also on the mVaxII, obviously no cd on it. Is there an alternative way to install it on the mVaxII ? Thanks in advance. From pdm4606 at sbcglobal.net Fri Jan 24 05:29:00 2003 From: pdm4606 at sbcglobal.net (Paul Mika) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:03 2005 Subject: Apple C3 In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030123170256.02342c98@pop-server> Message-ID: Apple 3C The first attempt at Apple to add a hard drive to an Apple II. More like Apple was wandering around and trying to figure out what kind of computers they wanted to make and went to a hard drive. pretty good since everyone uses a hard drive now. AT&T or someone attempted to use a regular audio cassette for the same reason. Wat too slow!!! There is still software out there. Seen on ebay. Paul Mika From jss at subatomix.com Fri Jan 24 06:31:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:03 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <791532834.20030124063443@subatomix.com> On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, chris wrote: > At first I filled my tank at my fire house off our breathing air > compressor, but that got to be a pain, so I bought a small air compressor > (also at Sears, also about $40) You mean one of those small, tankless compressors? I went to Sears last night, and the cheapest tank-equipped compressor they had was $180. Considering the potential cheapness of used scuba gear, that's way too much to pay for air. Anyway, I'd always thought that those little compressors weren't all that great. Am I wrong? -- Jeffrey Sharp From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jan 24 07:05:01 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:03 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? In-Reply-To: <791532834.20030124063443@subatomix.com> References: <791532834.20030124063443@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Jan 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, chris wrote: > > > At first I filled my tank at my fire house off our breathing air > > compressor, but that got to be a pain, so I bought a small air > > compressor (also at Sears, also about $40) > > You mean one of those small, tankless compressors? I went to Sears last > night, and the cheapest tank-equipped compressor they had was $180. > Considering the potential cheapness of used scuba gear, that's way too > much to pay for air. Anyway, I'd always thought that those little > compressors weren't all that great. Am I wrong? I lucked out on my small Craftsman tankless compressor. It was a freebie, but it had been abused. It had used in dust-filled environment without the intake filter. After it quit working, the previous owner then let it sit out in the weather for a month or so. A few days of totally stripping it down polishing up the head, etc, replacing the reed valves and seals, and then a case washing made the thing look and work like brand new. Interestingly enough, it is now over 20 years old, as I seem to remember it was made in 1983. The original owner still had the manual, which has the date of manufacture and a very handy breakdown diagram with a parts listing. (Needless to say, they were quite surprised that I rebuilt it to like-new specs. I guess thats just another example of how people throw away stuff that is still usable...) As far as usability goes, it's only 3/4HP, and can create up to 100psi. It doesn't work very well if you open up the blowgun valve for more than short bursts, but for removing dust, thats generally what you do anyway. I tend to use it mostly for removing the really stubborn dust from things like power supplies (while wearing a dust mask), and since it is tankless, it is easy to transport. I prefer to vacuum out dust when I can, but with the density of parts in switching power supplies, that is often very difficult. Paint brushes also help in removing the really stubborn dust, which seems to really stick to any sort of HV stuff. -Toth From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 24 07:32:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:03 2005 Subject: ibm sys/36 5360 basic needed In-Reply-To: <20030124062832.94056.qmail@web40710.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Bill Allen Jr wrote: > no one on this list has a copy of basic for the > sys/36? > not even sellam? I might. I have a bunch of IBM 8" disks for the System/3x series but I don't have them catalogued :( Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 24 07:34:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:03 2005 Subject: Apple C3 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Jan 2003, Paul Mika wrote: > Apple 3C > > The first attempt at Apple to add a hard drive to an Apple II. > > More like Apple was wandering around and trying to figure out what kind of > computers they wanted to make and went to a hard drive. > pretty good since everyone uses a hard drive now. > AT&T or someone attempted to use a regular audio cassette for the same > reason. Wat too slow!!! > > There is still software out there. > Seen on ebay. I've never heard of the Apple 3C either. Are you saying Apple made a hard drive and gave it a "3C" model number/name? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cb at mythtech.net Fri Jan 24 08:09:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:03 2005 Subject: What's better than canned air? Message-ID: >> At first I filled my tank at my fire house off our breathing air >> compressor, but that got to be a pain, so I bought a small air compressor >> (also at Sears, also about $40) > >You mean one of those small, tankless compressors? I went to Sears last >night, and the cheapest tank-equipped compressor they had was $180. >Considering the potential cheapness of used scuba gear, that's way too much >to pay for air. Anyway, I'd always thought that those little compressors >weren't all that great. Am I wrong? Correct, a tankless compressor. The type sold for filling car tires or whatever. The one I have is pretty good considering the price, but I can't use it directly to run my blowgun. I have to fill my storage tank, and run the blow gun off that. The reason is, the compressor will go to 250 PSI, but it starts at Zero and works its way up. So if I attach the blowgun directly to it, I never get more than about 1 or 2 PSI (whatever pressure it builds up from friction going thru the hose). But, the compressor works very well for filling my 12 gallon air tank to 200 PSI, which then works very well for running my blowgun at 10-60 PSI (depending on where I set the regulator). Although used SCUBA gear is a good cheap option, you have to consider how often you are going to fill it, and how much that is going to cost you. Remember, if you pay $180 for a tank/compressor at Sears, that's it. From then on out, compressed air is more or less free (electricity to power the compressor, and maintenance costs). With a SCUBA tank, you might buy the tank and regulator for under $100, but you will pay for each refill (unless you know someone that has a 3000 PSI compressor... if you are friends with a fireman, ask if their department can do it, we do for friends and the occasional resident if they ask nicely, but then not all FDs have their own breathing air compressor, and fewer have the attachments for filling SCUBA gear) If you figure $8 each, your last $80 is used up in 10 fillings. Not to mention the time/effort/annoyance to have to fill it when it runs out at the worst possible time. But if you don't fill the bottle offen (those bottles hold a LOT of air at 1 atmosphere), then SCUBA might be the cheaper, and certainly quieter option. -chris From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Fri Jan 24 08:11:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:03 2005 Subject: Apple C3 References: Message-ID: <3E314AEA.1EF589B4@mail.verizon.net> I thought it was "Apple C3?" C3 was a company that held many DOD contracts. They got in trouble with the Justice Dept. and ended up merging with and changing their name to Telos. Telos is a small California-originated company that developed much of the Deep Space Network at JPL. Anyway, C3 liked putting their logo on systems when they delivered them to customers as a package. I remember in high school thinking that C3 somehow owned Interdata as the latter was the system that we had in all American high schools in Europe at the time. Truth is that C3 held the systems contracts for supplying Interdata computers to all the schools and for that put their logo on the computers. Perhaps an Apple C3 is a similar situation? The question is did this Apple system belong to an indvidual or an organization? Where is the photo to really assist with clarification? Eric Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 24 Jan 2003, Paul Mika wrote: > > > Apple 3C > > > > The first attempt at Apple to add a hard drive to an Apple II. > > > > More like Apple was wandering around and trying to figure out what kind of > > computers they wanted to make and went to a hard drive. > > pretty good since everyone uses a hard drive now. > > AT&T or someone attempted to use a regular audio cassette for the same > > reason. Wat too slow!!! > > > > There is still software out there. > > Seen on ebay. > > I've never heard of the Apple 3C either. Are you saying Apple made a hard > drive and gave it a "3C" model number/name? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Fri Jan 24 08:29:00 2003 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:03 2005 Subject: Any Cromemco USERS? In-Reply-To: <01C2C245.27ED72C0@mse-d03> Message-ID: > > I'd be interested in knowing how you got CP/M onto the Cromix > > diskettes and configured for its memory model? > > The hard way (and the fun way)! > > > > It was very gratifying when the sucker booted up the first time. > > MS: !!!!!! Very gratifying indeed, I'll bet!!! Wow - that's REALLY doing it > the hard way, but maybe it was the only way...! How long did that take? About three weeks worth of lunch hours. I had the machine in my office at work, which was appropriate because we were an embedded OS shop. Everybody would stop by to ask about progress and watch the blinkenlights. Once I had it booting, a number of people liked to play star trek on it. Probably 10 man-hours total on the OS. From kelly at catcorner.org Fri Jan 24 10:21:01 2003 From: kelly at catcorner.org (Kelly Leavitt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:03 2005 Subject: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape Message-ID: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B80D@308server.308dole.com> > Since the original enquirer asked for 1600 BPI, you would go by FORMAT.1600. > All files on my site are compressed with 4.3BSD-Quasijarus compress(1). The > 1600 BPI distribution consists of two tapes (assuming you are using 2400 ft reels). Well, I've downloaded the content, compile the compress for my UNIX and am ready to write the tapes. Since I'm not using a native machine, any tips on creating the tapes? I would guess from your notes that I would just dump the files in binary from the computer to the tape. No headers, no special markers. Just filefilefile... any tips? Thanks, Kelly From truthanl at oclc.org Fri Jan 24 11:34:01 2003 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:03 2005 Subject: Mr Tillmans - CD History Inquiry Message-ID: <90D12689EF7A0543AB11426D75D6ABC50358F062@oa4-server.oa.oclc.org> Regarding the History of data CDs... I did some research. OCLC Online Computer Library Center, Inc. was adapting this technology back in 1985-86. Specifically we were interested in multiple player stacks or jukeboxes for collections of database disks. Phillips, Hitachi, and Sony, were the first drives out. @ $900 - $1000 each Phillips had a proprietary interface card for the PC bus that could support two external drives. Hitachi had a card out that supported multiple configurable I/O Bus Addresses and a parallel bus structure that could support up to 4 external drives off a single interface card. (OCLC selected Hitachi) Each manufacturer also had SCSI cards that could support multiple drives. The big thing was the MSCDEX extensions supporting manufacturer dependent device drivers with their "switches" enabling multiple drives. Once the High Sierra Data format was adopted in 1985, and the MSCDEX extensions were widely distributed, CD Drives became more common. Price fell to $550-$600 ( Later MSCDEX distribution was tied to DOS Version / upgrade distribution ) After Windows 3.X software distribution consumed the worlds diskette production capacity, AT class machines began shipping with CD Drives installed.($110 price point) Here is a (google recovered) link that shows a partial reconstructed history of CD data adaptation: http://www.itc.nl/~bakker/info/rs-data/cd-family.html Sincerely Larry Truthan From msell at ontimesupport.com Fri Jan 24 11:36:00 2003 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:03 2005 Subject: Ring Charge In-Reply-To: <3E300D31.17865.10A10B48@localhost> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030124113733.034ccce8@127.0.0.1> Have you owned a cellular phone for a few years? If so - (especially during the AMPS analog days), you were billed this way, too. - Matt >A RING CHARGE ? > >By Jove! That's the most ridicoulous thing I ever hered after >being introduced to roaming charges in the US... Are you for >real? YOu are jokeing, right? > >Gruss >H. > >-- >VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen >http://www.vcfe.org/ Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030124/e2fb48fc/attachment.html From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri Jan 24 12:22:00 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:03 2005 Subject: Ultrix v4.3 install on mVaxII Message-ID: <0301241824.AA11657@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Franco Tassone wrote: > I've installed Ultrix v4.3 on the mVax3100 from the cdrom distribution, and > would like to install it also on the mVaxII, obviously no cd on it. > Is there an alternative way to install it on the mVaxII ? You can install Ultrix over Ethernet from a running Ultrix server, but don't ask me how. MS From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri Jan 24 12:35:01 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape Message-ID: <0301241838.AA11709@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Kelly Leavitt wrote: > Well, I've downloaded the content, compile the compress for my UNIX and am > ready to write the tapes. Since I'm not using a native machine, any tips on > creating the tapes? I would guess from your notes that I would just dump the > files in binary from the computer to the tape. No headers, no special > markers. Just filefilefile... Yes, do just that. Uncompress the files going on the first tape, write the second tape with the compressed files as you downloaded them. MS From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Jan 24 13:40:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: [OT] Re: A plea to classiccmpers In-Reply-To: <1043262164.1100.0.camel@azure.subsolar> References: <200301221732.MAA06554@eola.ao.net> <1043262164.1100.0.camel@azure.subsolar> Message-ID: <4251.4.20.168.172.1043437409.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> >> Pay by the minute for connection time? You're getting screwed. > NO, your probably living in Europe. Although the two aren't mutually exclusive. From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Jan 24 13:50:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Apple C3 In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.0.9.2.20030123170256.02342c98@pop-server> Message-ID: <2907.4.20.168.172.1043438022.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Paul Mika wrote (or quoted from eBay?): > Apple 3C > > The first attempt at Apple to add a hard drive to an Apple II. > > More like Apple was wandering around and trying to figure out what kind > of computers they wanted to make and went to a hard drive. > pretty good since everyone uses a hard drive now. > AT&T or someone attempted to use a regular audio cassette for the same > reason. Wat too slow!!! > > There is still software out there. > Seen on ebay. Aple's first attempt to add a hard drive to an Apple II was the Profile, introduced in 1982. Originally they had a 5 MB model, and later offered a 10 MB model. The Profile was used on the Apple ][ and Apple ///, with a different interface card for each. Later it was used on the Lisa, using the standard Lisa parallel ports. There was a prototype of an internal Profile 5MB drive for the Lisa, but it did not ship as a product. Instead Apple designed a new "Widget" 10MB internal drive. There was also a prototype of an external Widget drive for AppleBus (which was renamed to AppleTalk, then later to LocalTalk). It's true that the profile was not very fast, but then most hard drives on microcomputers back in 1982 were rather slow. Third-party hard drives for the Apple ][ appeared before Apple's Profile. I'm not sure what any of this has to do with an "Apple 3C", whatever that is. Eric From archivesoftware at celebritydirect.net Fri Jan 24 13:53:00 2003 From: archivesoftware at celebritydirect.net (Cord G. Coslor - Archive Software) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: FS (quick): Tandy 1000 items, monitor, TL2, keyboard References: <001301c2be73$36df3730$0502a8c0@DTMCSILAPTOP> Message-ID: <010f01c2c3da$38291ae0$405986d1@earthlink.net> are you still looking for a monitor? Sincerely, CORD G. COSLOR Celebrity Direct Entertainment ----- | Celebrity Direct Entertainment | 49 Halsey Dr. - Hutchinson, KS - 67502 | (620) 665-8366 | www.CelebrityDirect.net * CDE@CelebrityDirect.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Darin To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 4:55 PM Subject: Re: FS (quick): Tandy 1000 items, monitor, TL2, keyboard Would like to purchase the cm-11 monitor. Darin Miller DTM Computer Services, Inc. dtmcsi@transedge.com Business: 330-452-1211 Cell: 330-607-0613 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030124/09e55057/attachment.html From jwillis at arielusa.com Fri Jan 24 14:37:01 2003 From: jwillis at arielusa.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape Message-ID: <2DA7A129907A664E8C5DA8462AD4D94C2B8C00@deathstar.arielnet.com> Do I understand this right as meaning that the files for the First tape should be uncompressed, but the rest should remain Compressed? -----Original Message----- From: Michael Sokolov [mailto:msokolov@ivan.Harhan.ORG] Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 11:38 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape Kelly Leavitt wrote: > Well, I've downloaded the content, compile the compress for my UNIX and am > ready to write the tapes. Since I'm not using a native machine, any tips on > creating the tapes? I would guess from your notes that I would just dump the > files in binary from the computer to the tape. No headers, no special > markers. Just filefilefile... Yes, do just that. Uncompress the files going on the first tape, write the second tape with the compressed files as you downloaded them. MS From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri Jan 24 14:49:00 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape Message-ID: <0301242051.AA11841@ivan.Harhan.ORG> John Willis wrote: > Do I understand this right as meaning that the files for the > First tape should be uncompressed, but the rest should remain > Compressed? Yes, for 1600 BPI. This is a new practice I have introduced with 4.3BSD- Quasijarus0a due to the growth of the source size. 4.3-QJ0a /usr/src tarball won't fit on a 2400 ft reel at 1600 BPI without compression. Since the uncompress utility comes standard with the system (in /usr/ucb) and the binaries are not compressed, I felt that it's OK to compress the sources. MS From dundas at caltech.edu Fri Jan 24 16:32:00 2003 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Bulk erasing disk packs In-Reply-To: <000801c2c2d0$f2602ad0$0201000a@thornton.protasis.co.uk> Message-ID: Tim, As others have written, don't bulk erase the packs, or they will be rendered useless. At 3:16 AM -0800 1/23/03, Tim Myers wrote: >21 x DEC RL02K-DC Do you have any plans for these packs? I have an RL controller for my /73 but no drives or packs yet. Are you planning on parting with any? If so, where are you? I'm in Pasadena, California. Thanks, John --------------------------------------------------------- John A. Dundas III Director, Information Technology Services Infrastructure, Caltech Mail Code: 014-81, Pasadena, CA 91125-8100 Phone: 626.395.3392 FAX: 626.449.6973 From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Jan 24 16:37:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape In-Reply-To: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B80D@308server.308dole.com>; from kelly@catcorner.org on Fri, Jan 24, 2003 at 17:11:00 CET References: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B80D@308server.308dole.com> Message-ID: <20030124181448.C57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.01.24 17:11 Kelly Leavitt wrote: > Well, I've downloaded the content, compile the compress for my UNIX > and am ready to write the tapes. [...] > any tips? Yes. Use maketape from the 2.11BSD distribution. You have to observe the correct block sizes, that you can't do with dd. maketape knows how to do this. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 24 17:09:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Great Finds Today In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Jan 23, 3 09:37:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 618 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030124/c22460a1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 24 17:10:25 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Fwd: Newbrain w/ Stepper In-Reply-To: <13960444975.20030123225334@subatomix.com> from "Jeffrey Sharp" at Jan 23, 3 10:53:34 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1176 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030124/289a6b94/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 24 17:11:36 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Problem with 9836C floppy drive In-Reply-To: from "Stan" at Jan 23, 3 10:53:03 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 750 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030124/7eb2da1e/attachment.ksh From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri Jan 24 18:04:01 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape Message-ID: <0301250007.AA11937@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Jochen Kunz wrote: > Yes. Use maketape from the 2.11BSD distribution. I strongly advise against this approach. I will not provide any help or support to any user attempting to bootstrap 4.3BSD-Quasijarus from tapes written by this method. 4.3BSD-Quasijarus isn't 2.11BSD, and one cannot expect the tools from some random foreign OS to produce correct distribution tapes for 4.3BSD- Quasijarus. > You have to observe the > correct block sizes, that you can't do with dd. Yes you can. dd bs=blocksize. Here is the sequence of commands to write a 4.3BSD-Quasijarus 1600 BPI distribution: (mount the first reel) dd if=stand of=/dev/nrmt0h bs=512 dd if=miniroot of=/dev/nrmt0h bs=20b dd if=rootdump of=/dev/nrmt0h bs=20b dd if=usr.tar of=/dev/nrmt0h bs=20b mt rew (first reel done) (mount the second reel) dd if=srcsys.tar.Z of=/dev/nrmt0h bs=20b dd if=src.tar.Z of=/dev/nrmt0h bs=20b (second reel done) MS From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Fri Jan 24 18:09:01 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C980@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > > Yes. Use maketape from the 2.11BSD distribution. > > I strongly advise against this approach. This is bullshit, Michael. "maketape" does exactly the same, namely, creating tape files with a certain blocksize, separated by tape marks. C'mon. --fred From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 24 18:51:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Digital AXPpci33 "noname" questions In-Reply-To: <200301240510.AAA108117303@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <20030125005412.87734.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Megan wrote: > > >It was definitely a successful step, however it is not usable for > >AXPpci. Just go to ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Alpha/firmware/archive, > >find your model name and go on. > > > >Update floppy is just a FAT-formatted floppy with srm.exe and/or arc.exe > >and an update script. You can make yourself easily with a notebook. That was not useful in my particular circumstances... I had to locate the mkboot.exe program under cover of a different model off of the aforementioned ftp site, and mkboot the AXPpci33 firmware file to the floppy. Booting _that_ got me the results I was after. > I found the firmware update floppy I generated for my AXPpci33... > If the person who needs it will contact me, I'll make take an > image of it and make it available... If you mean me, my AXPpci33 upgrade was successful (but just in case I've missed something, what version did you find?) If you mean someone else, then I'll just go back to minding my own business. Thanks, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 24 19:43:00 2003 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: ibm sys/36 5360 basic needed Message-ID: I might, I'll have to check.. I know I have COBOL and SSP and some other crud... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 24 20:03:00 2003 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: HP 2100 cpu plea Message-ID: Well currently there's a nice HP 2100A system with no bids, starting at $600 I believe.. I know I'd pay that, if I could.. plus $400 for an HP 3030 tape drive.. *drool* Will J _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From ssj152 at charter.net Fri Jan 24 20:08:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (ssj152) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: New to list Message-ID: <036001c2c417$12af85a0$0200a8c0@cosmo> Hi, I am new here; I've been lurking (reading the archives) for a while, decided to join. Since I retired I've taken up "retrocomputing" and see a lot of discussion here about systems I'm interested in and hopefully I'll be able to contribute at times. I am certainly having fun reading the posts - the recent posts about "middle posting" really cracked me up! I am interested in 6502 based systems, especially the KIM-1 and SYM-1. I currently have a VIM-1 and a SYM-1, having years ago been thickheaded enough to sell my KIM-1. Wish I had one now, can't afford one on eBay. I have nothing against the AIM-65, I just have never fooled with one and haven't been able to pick one up yet. My interest in small 6502's has been extended to small "trainers" with different CPU's, like the Heathkit ET-3400 and the HP 5036A. One of these days I may get around to fooling around with PIC's, but I'm still having too much fun with the old stuff. I'm looking for a copy of the HP book "Practical Microprocessors, HP part number 05036-90003" if anyone has an affordable source for one. I have inquiries out to several "manual" sites and am awaiting replies. I also have history with PDP-11's, using RT-11 and RSX-11M. I have a PDT-11/150 at the present and run RT-11 on it. What I'd really like to have is a H-11 (yeah, I can really afford that...no way) or better yet, a DCT-11 trainer. I saw 3 of the DCT-11's go by this fall on eBay and wasn't in a position to bid. In recent years I worked with VAXes and have several VAXStations and MicroVAXes, in the 3100 and 4000 series. I'm not sure these qualify as classic (3100-10e, 4000-VLC, 4000-60, 4000-90). I also have a few Alpha's. - Multia, AlphaStation 200 4/100, and AlphaServer 1000A. I spent the last 10 years of my career as a systems programmer working with OpenVMS in a process control (SCADA) environment. I am not so much a collector as a user and builder of computers and peripherals. By that I mean I'm not trying to corner the market, open a museum, or that I consider these computers as "investments". I am not likely to sell anything, but might be interested in buying a few things, especially documentation for some of the machines I have. What documentation I have I may at some time convert to PDF and publish for anyone else interested to play with. Stuart Johnson ssj152 AT charter DOT net From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Jan 24 20:14:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: strange things to do with your IBM System/3x (was Re: ibm sys/36 5360 basic needed) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2586.4.20.168.172.1043461077.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I might, I'll have to check.. I know I have COBOL and SSP and some other > crud... When I was in junior high school, my friend Doug got a job working on RPG code on a System/34. In his spare time, he translated ADVENT [*] from PDP-10 Fortran to RPG II [**] to run on the System/34. I don't know if there existed a Fortran compiler for the System/34, but if there was, his employer apparently didn't have it. COBOL would actually be a more reasonable language [***] into which to translate ADVENT, and there was a System/34 COBOL compiler. All of the text-handling code in ADVENT is non-portable, because back then FORTRAN didn't have reasonable support for arrays of characters. The number of characters that would pack into any given numeric type was implementation-dependent. On the PDP-10, that was five 7-bit ASCII characters per 36-bit word, with one bit left over. I think Fortran 77 fixed this problem, by defining an actual CHARACTER type. Unfortunately I haven't been in touch with Doug in over twenty years now; I have no idea whether he still has a copy of his RPG ADVENT. Which is a shame, because it would be nice to try it with the Eraseerhead RPG II compiler, which is GPL'd: http://rpg.eraserhead.net/ Eric [*] The original Colossal Cave Adventure game by Crowther and Woods, written in Fortran for the DEC PDP-10. Named "ADVENT" because the TOPS-10 operating system only allows for six-character filenames in SIXBIT code, which does not include lower case. [**] Or maybe it was RPG III. I don't really know what was available on the System/34 back in the late 1970s. [***} I'll bet you never expected to see "COBOL" and "reasonable language" in the same sentence, without an "isn't" between them. :-) Now I'm not saying that I *like* COBOL, but there are definitely some things that it is better-suited for than Fortran IV. From sml49 at attbi.com Fri Jan 24 20:36:00 2003 From: sml49 at attbi.com (Seth Lewin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Bernoulli In-Reply-To: <20030123180001.89357.95306.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: > Message: 16 > Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 11:05:11 -0700 > From: Kevin Handy > To: cctalk > Subject: Bernoulli Dual 20Z > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > I found a Bernoulli Dual 20Z drive in a thrift shop. > Does anyone know anything about it? > > It has a SCSI interface on it, but I don't even know > what capacity of disks it can handle, and where can > I find software to drive it. > > They has some "90" disks there too, which do fit > into the drive, but I'd like more info on it than that The one Bernoulli I once owned used 90mb cartridges, which is probably what you're looking at, Kevin. Bernoullis were more or less predecessors of Zip drives, technologically speaking. I may have a Mac SCSI driver around here somewhere for these things or you might try the Iomega website. SML From kelly at catcorner.org Fri Jan 24 20:59:00 2003 From: kelly at catcorner.org (Kelly Leavitt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape Message-ID: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B813@308server.308dole.com> And I'm not even using 2.11 or any type of BSD. Sun, Sco, Windows or Dos based is all I can read and write 9 track tapes with. Used sun (since compress essentially compiled out of the tarball). Used dd with the different bs settings. Don't blame Michael for his stance though. There are only so many things he can support. I hope these work for John Willis, but I'm not making any promises either. Just trying to help out when and where I can. I've got a 9-track drive and a bunch of tapes to recycle. If it doesn't work, John will have to see if someone else can create the tapes he needs. Either way, working or not, he's more than welcome to try. Keep the tapes and pass em around until you get a working copy if what I did doesn't work. For what it's worth, I read and convert different _DATA_ tapes almost daily. Labelled, unlabelled, ascii, ebcdic, variable length, fixed length, etc. I essentially treated these as unlabled data tapes. I did read the tar files back off onto sco and DOS and was able to "untar" them. diff showed the write files and read files to be the same on both platforms. Hope it all works. -----Original Message----- From: Fred N. van Kempen [mailto:Fred.van.Kempen@microwalt.nl] Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 7:13 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape > > Yes. Use maketape from the 2.11BSD distribution. > > I strongly advise against this approach. This is bullshit, Michael. "maketape" does exactly the same, namely, creating tape files with a certain blocksize, separated by tape marks. C'mon. --fred From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri Jan 24 21:06:00 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape Message-ID: <0301250309.AA12130@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Kelly Leavitt wrote: > Used sun (since > compress essentially compiled out of the tarball). Used dd with the > different bs settings. > > [...] > > I hope these work for John Willis, but > I'm not making any promises either. This should work just fine. MS From mbg at TheWorld.com Fri Jan 24 21:36:01 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Digital AXPpci33 "noname" questions Message-ID: <200301250339.WAA108751970@shell.TheWorld.com> >If you mean me, my AXPpci33 upgrade was successful (but just in case >I've missed something, what version did you find?) If you mean someone >else, then I'll just go back to minding my own business. It might have been you... Anyway, the image I produced is bootable from the SRM console and delivers a V4.something, if I remember correctly, which is the last version of the console firmware for the AXPpci33... it came from a V6 (or later) CD... Megan From mbg at TheWorld.com Fri Jan 24 21:38:00 2003 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: New to list Message-ID: <200301250341.WAA110452569@shell.TheWorld.com> Welcome to the group, Stuart... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | | | | "this space | (s/ at /@/) | | unavoidably left blank" | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From cvisors at carnagevisors.net Fri Jan 24 23:03:00 2003 From: cvisors at carnagevisors.net (Benjamin Gardiner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: cool find. Message-ID: <209C86B6-3022-11D7-A3B2-0030653F44C8@carnagevisors.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Okay cool find for the day. I just got myself an Indigo2 R8000. and the cool thing is I actually got a copy of IRIX 6.5 with it, I now have IRIX media Yay! it also has another network card installed in the machine, plus some video capture board, but unfortunately with out the breakout box. at present just installing Irix on this machine, as the original install had /usr as a NFS share.. anyway a nice machine to add to my collection of way too much stuff. (already been told off from the significant other about it ;) ) - ----------------- I saw two shooting stars last night I wished on them but they were only satellites Is it wrong to wish on space hardware? I wish, I wish, I wish you'd care Billy Bragg 1983 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 8.0 - not licensed for commercial use: www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBPjIaTfy2mMMkIDolEQK/0QCgpgQL5RY0/DryJhn0ju+KIEKoBLYAnjwW ebh4IcpZkOC/Y7x/oVklGubG =sWny -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 25 00:09:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Digital AXPpci33 "noname" questions In-Reply-To: <200301250339.WAA108751970@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <20030125061244.93256.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Megan wrote: > Anyway, the image I produced is bootable from the SRM console and > delivers a V4.something, if I remember correctly, which is the last > version of the console firmware for the AXPpci33... it came from a > V6 (or later) CD... I got the latest version from the HP ftp site this week and now my AXPpci33 is running 4.7 (was on 4.5 previously). So... thank you for looking if it was for me. If it was for someone else, they will probably speak up at some point. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Jan 25 04:20:52 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Decserver 700-16 firmware In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Doug Jackson Sent: 24 January 2003 00:08 To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' Subject: Decserver 700-16 firmware >Hi, >I have got my hands on a couple of old dec terminal servers, and am having trouble finding the firmware to make them work. >These devices do not have flash, and are attempting to boot from a bootp server, so I guess that they need an image. >Does anybody on the list still have an image for these boxes. Unfortunately, without software, the boxes appear to >be junk, and it would be really great to get these boxes going, so that I could connect to various systems (including my SBC6120) from my pc (via TCP!) >regards Depending on the amount of flash RAM in those beasties you can either use mneng1.sys or mneng2.sys, both of which I can have available on a website in a few minutes. Got to fire one of my VAXen up today for some DCL hacking for an old customer so I'll kill 2 birds with one stone. If I could lay my hands on one of my missing CD folders I've also got the DNAS 2.2 CD which contains all of the above and more. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Jan 25 04:25:48 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Free stuff In-Reply-To: <015d01c2c324$2be71a40$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Sipke de Wal > Sent: 23 January 2003 21:13 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Free stuff > > > The first soundblaster was an 8-Bit PC-XT slot card > and could be used in a PC/XT ! > > (Still got one around here somewhere) > > Same goes for propriety CD-ROM drives like > Sony, Mitshumi an Panasonic (Non ATAPI)) > > Sipke de Wal Heh, you've reminded me I've got a single speed Mitsumi drive complete with ISA card in an old Apricot XEN - the whole mechanism, transport and all, comes out of the case when you hit the eject button and the top flips up like a record player! They obviously hadn't mastered the 'tray' idea at that point :) -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From francois at auradon.com Sat Jan 25 04:28:02 2003 From: francois at auradon.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: 5110 trade update Message-ID: <002101c2c3b1$d109bfe0$0264640a@auradon.com> Hi all, It seems like I am going to end up tading for cash :) This will make it easier on everybody and it seems like nobody wants to get rid of their interesting items. I will be putting pictures on my serve this week end anyone interested in welcome to ask me for the address. I will be listing the documentation that I have and any original floppy (if any). Interested parties should contact me before the end of the day sunday (+/- 1 earth revolution :) Funny people with a $5 offer will be actively ignored :) Thank you. Francois From toring at inet.uni2.dk Sat Jan 25 04:29:55 2003 From: toring at inet.uni2.dk (Torben Ring) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Grundy Newbrain Message-ID: <3E319D31.8030708@inet.uni2.dk> Hi, I have an old Grundy Newbrain AD computer which doesn't work. The machine powers up with random chars in the built in anode display, but doesn't respond to keypresses. I used the machine some 20 years ago, and when I put it away at that time it was ok. I've checked the voltages at the 4116 RAM's and they are ok (+5, +12 and -5 volts). The ripple is also within reasonable limits. I don't have the schema for the machine so right new I'm pretty lost. Is anyone able to help me out? If so, please answer directly at my email address. Regards, Torben Ring DENMARK From decarvalho70 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 25 04:31:16 2003 From: decarvalho70 at yahoo.com (Rubens DeCarvalho) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Data processing equip for sale Message-ID: <20030124202512.12318.qmail@web40016.mail.yahoo.com> Hello, I found your email on the web regarding this type of equipment. I have the following equipment available for sale. Equipment was recently deinstalled. It is OOS, working. Let me know your interest. IBM 3803 - Series 26371 IBM 3420 - Series 7746995 IBM 3420 - Series 7747435 IBM ES9000/3490-E - Series PE 000730 CPM 1455 - 02 CPM 1416 - 02 CPM 1416 - 02 CPM 1255 - 02 CPM DKU 2051U - 14 FUJITSU SU200 - 8820336 Thank you, Rubens DeCarvalho. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030125/69a8f23e/attachment.html From MUSHHI at aol.com Sat Jan 25 04:33:00 2003 From: MUSHHI at aol.com (MUSHHI@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: dwp 220 tandy Message-ID: <4d.2ad06399.2b631015@aol.com> help where can i get a daisy printwheel for my obsolete Tandy 220 dwp printer thanks wolf 360-825-2200 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030125/34fb4711/attachment.html From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Jan 25 04:34:39 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape In-Reply-To: <0301250007.AA11937@ivan.Harhan.ORG>; from msokolov@ivan.Harhan.ORG on Sat, Jan 25, 2003 at 01:07:41 CET References: <0301250007.AA11937@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <20030125105107.U57315@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.01.25 01:07 Michael Sokolov wrote: > > Yes. Use maketape from the 2.11BSD distribution. > I strongly advise against this approach. Well, I had to use some programm to write the tapes, dd(1), maketape, or somthing else. I made good experiences with maketape to write 2.11BSD tapes, so I stayed with it and it worked very well. > and one cannot expect the tools > from some random foreign OS to produce correct distribution tapes for > 4.3BSD-Quasijarus. The same for dd(1). There may some implementation differences in dd(1), say on SunOS or AIX, that may produce unusable tapes. Therefore I used maketape. I had a glance at the code and it seams that it does everything proper on every UNIX and Unix-like OS. Don't forget the chicken-egg problem. If I have no 4.3BSD-Quasijarus running, I have to use some random foreign OS to produce distribution tapes. (Or I have to bother somone else to do it for me.) > > You have to observe the > > correct block sizes, that you can't do with dd. > Yes you can. dd bs=blocksize. Here is the sequence of commands to > write a 4.3BSD-Quasijarus 1600 BPI distribution: > > (mount the first reel) > dd if=stand of=/dev/nrmt0h bs=512 I learnd that the bs= parameter of dd doesn't set the block size of the tape with an ioctl, it is only the buffersize parameter that is used in the write(2) syscall. But as already said, maybe some other implementations of dd and tape drivers may do somthing else. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Jan 25 04:37:12 2003 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Intel 8751 In-Reply-To: <9358854828.20030123222704@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <48D40DE6-304D-11D7-98ED-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Thursday, January 23, 2003, at 11:27 PM, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: >> The original 8051 really suffers from only having one 16 bit DPTR >> (data >> address register). This has been corrected on some of the improved >> versions now available, but code written for those is no longer >> portable >> to all 8051 derivatives. > > I wrote a bit of firmware for the Dallas DS80C520, one of the improved > versions. It was great fun. There is a *lot* of functionality packed > into > that chip. I'm currently looking at the DS80C400. That is one scary chip. Hardware math accelerator, 10/100Mbps ethernet controller, TCP/IP stack and multitasking OS primitives in on-chip ROM...most impressive. This is a microcontroller that can, no shit, boot its firmware via DHCP and TFTP. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "Wear whatever you want...Just don't be surprised St. Petersburg, FL if you wind up with a blow-gun dart in your prosthetic boobies." -Kurt Huhn From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sat Jan 25 05:03:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407FE07@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > > > Yes. Use maketape from the 2.11BSD distribution. > > I strongly advise against this approach. > Well, I had to use some programm to write the tapes, dd(1), > maketape, or somthing else. Indeed. There is *nothing* magical about making tapes from selected files. What you have to keep in mind are: - select the correct tape boot blocks (MT, TK etc) - grab the correct kernel and/or RAM disk image - use the right blocksize for the above "file" (usually 512bytes) For the remaining files on the tape, blocksizes vary between OSes, and can be anywhere between 512 (old systems) and 10K (UNIX tar files). The key issue is to generate a magtape file marker between the individual files, so the tape handling software knows where a file ends. The block size and tape marker generation are done correctly by the Maketape program. If you want to do it manually: - grab the first ("bootable") file for the tape, and dd it to the tape: dd if=bootfile.img of=/dev/ntape bs=512 this copies "bootfile.img" to the tape, using a block size of 512 bytes, and when done, it will write a tape mark and **NOT** rewind the tape ("ntape" - can be /dev/nrst0, /dev/nrmt0h, /dev/ntk0, etc.) - copy the other files to the tape: dd if=nextfile.foo of=/dev/ntape bs=10240 which copies "nextfile.foo" to the tape, using a block size of 10240 bytes (common for UNIX tar files) and when done, writes the tape mark, and NOT rewind. - when done, write a tape mark and rewind the tape: mt -f /dev/ntape weof mt -f /dev/ntape rewind where the first command (Write EOF) is optional, as most UNIX systems do this automatically when rewinding a tape in write mode. This creates a magtape in the right format for booting. Tools like the Maketape program do this as well, based on a small description file which tells it what goes where and such. > > dd if=stand of=/dev/nrmt0h bs=512 > I learnd that the bs= parameter of dd doesn't set the block > size of the tape with an ioctl, it is only the buffersize > parameter that is used in the write(2) syscall. Correct. The 'dd' program **does not** set the physical block size of the tape device, as it is a generic block/deblock tool, and has no knowledge of devices whatsoever. It sets the block buffer size(s), on which the READ(2) and WRITE(2) system calls are based, which in turn tell the tape device driver what the block size is to be. This only works in the "raw" mode of tape devices, by the way- always use the 'r' device file of a tape unit when doing the above. Cheers, Fred From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jan 25 07:25:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Apple IIe in original boxes (for sale) (fwd) Message-ID: All the relevant information is below. Reply to the original sender. Reply-to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 09:47:24 -0600 From: "Cannon, Cynthia" To: "'bounty@vintagetech.com'" Subject: Apple II e I have an Apple II e, dual disk drive, monitor, original packing boxes, manuals, some software, etc. Many of the ancillary manuals are still sealed in their plastic wrap. I am interested in selling them. Are you interested? Cynthia Cannon 7203 Triola Lane Houston, Texas 77074 713-271-4203 cyndi324@aol.com -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pdm4606 at sbcglobal.net Sat Jan 25 08:03:00 2003 From: pdm4606 at sbcglobal.net (Paul Mika) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Apple C3 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Apple 3C; I don't know if they made the hard drive. They got it from somewhere. Very problem prone. Kept losing data and stopped working. The company I worked for (an Apple supplier) replaced several H.D. in a short time. Also very small. Only around 1 meg or less. More problems than they were worth. But innovation has to start somewhere. The 3c was finally scrapped for an IBM type machine. Actually the name of the machine was the Apple III The c added later for some reason. Looked like a big Apple II. Very heavy and clumsy. No mouse. Small clicky keyboard. Small green mono monitor. The monitor had motors to position with a button. Sort of like modern rear view mirrors. Then the company started making parts for a new fangled computer that Apple was going to feature on the 84 superbowl. We worked like the dickens for 6 mos. to get all metal stampings done for a 30,000 pre release build. Had to be that many availible for sale before release. The first new computer that I saw fully assembled with all of our stamped parts had a clear plastic case showing the insides. It was called a Mac. It was only 128 k but that was enough. Few programs anyway. The rest is history. I love my Macs and all their idiosyncricies. Long live the Mac. Paul From list at retrocomputing.gr Sat Jan 25 08:08:00 2003 From: list at retrocomputing.gr (voyager) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Grundy Newbrain References: <3E319D31.8030708@inet.uni2.dk> Message-ID: <001801c2c47b$3b5605b0$0100a8c0@voyager4> I've just sent them to you, by private mail. Regards Voyager GREECE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Torben Ring" To: Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 10:08 PM Subject: Grundy Newbrain > Hi, > > I have an old Grundy Newbrain AD computer which doesn't work. The > machine powers up with random chars in the built in anode display, but > doesn't respond to keypresses. I used the machine some 20 years ago, and > when I put it away at that time it was ok. > > I've checked the voltages at the 4116 RAM's and they are ok (+5, +12 and > -5 volts). The ripple is also within reasonable limits. > > I don't have the schema for the machine so right new I'm pretty lost. > > Is anyone able to help me out? If so, please answer directly at my email > address. > > Regards, > > Torben Ring > DENMARK > > > From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jan 25 08:24:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Decserver 700-16 firmware In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Jan 24, 2003 09:22:18 AM Message-ID: <200301251426.h0PEQUcf018170@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Depending on the amount of flash RAM in those beasties you can either use > mneng1.sys or mneng2.sys, both of which I can have available on a website in > a few minutes. Got to fire one of my VAXen up today for some DCL hacking for > an old customer so I'll kill 2 birds with one stone. If I could lay my hands > on one of my missing CD folders I've also got the DNAS 2.2 CD which contains > all of the above and more. The DECserver 700 software is WWENG*. MNENG* is for the DECserver 90M. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jan 25 08:42:01 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Intel 8751 In-Reply-To: <48D40DE6-304D-11D7-98ED-000393970B96@neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Jan 25, 2003 05:10:52 AM Message-ID: <200301251444.h0PEilcY018327@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I'm currently looking at the DS80C400. That is one scary chip. > Hardware math accelerator, 10/100Mbps ethernet controller, TCP/IP stack > and multitasking OS primitives in on-chip ROM...most impressive. > > This is a microcontroller that can, no shit, boot its firmware via > DHCP and TFTP. That sounds like a very interesting microcontroller. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From cb at mythtech.net Sat Jan 25 09:13:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: 5110 trade update Message-ID: >Funny people with a $5 offer will be actively ignored :) Ok... I'll offer $6 :-p -chris From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Sat Jan 25 09:50:22 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: New to list References: <036001c2c417$12af85a0$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <3E32B318.907FCC4C@Vishay.com> Hello Stuart, welcome to the list from me, too. I am also fairly new to the list (joined only a couple of months ago), and have some similar interests. Perhaps I should take the chance and put together a few details about me as well. The 6502 was the first microprocessor that I learned details about, but the 6809 gave me the actual kick. However, I have never owned one of the home computers that use any of these (nor the Z80). Instead, I have a boxfull of chips that were soldered together by two friends, containing a 6809, and I started making a rackmount 6809 several years ago, but did not finish this project yet (if you can ever call such a project "finished" at all). The PDP-11 infection happened when I did my diploma thesis: a temperature measurement / acquisition system on RSX-11M. Today, I have a number of Q-bus and UNIBUS systems in working order at home. For RT-11, I earned a reputation as an "overlay expert" when I managed to run several applications based on our own GKS (Graphical Kernel System) library within the address space of 64kB. The overlay tree was ported from RSX, and the same library was available for TOPS-10, VMS, several PC (DOS) FORTRAN compilers, and one FORTRAN implementation on the Atari ST. I have been using VAX/VMS since some V4.n version, around mid-80s, and OpenVMS/AXP since 1992, when I had the pleasure to run a field test site for V1.5, clustered with VAX/VMS V5.5. One of my projects was writing a print symbiont (using the SMB$ interface to the queue manager, not PSM$ routines). Regards, Andreas ssj152 schrieb: > > Hi, > > I am new here; I've been lurking (reading the archives) for a while, decided ... From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jan 25 10:08:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Applied Microsystems ICE In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E512739F@MAIL10> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030125111602.470f657a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Rich, I have a couple of the older AMS emulators (Z-80 and 8085) and they seem to be pretty nice emulators but I don't know anything about the newer style ones such as the one in the auction. However the AMS stuff seems to be fairly common and there's always a couple of pieces of it on E-bay. There's one of the older ones like mine on E-bay right now. It's at . Al has the copies of the manuals for some of the stuff on his website. BTW I need a pod for my AMS Z-80 emulator if anyone has one. Joe At 09:44 AM 1/23/03 -0500, you wrote: >Hello, all: > > I came across an Applied Microsystems in-circuit emulator on eBay >and wondered if anyone on the list has any familiarity with it. It's model >627593, 750-03207-00 and comes with one pod, model 68360-33. Any idea how >this is configured?. Google info is pretty limited except for the >announcement that Applied went out of business and sold out to Metroworks. > > Thanks. >Rich > >========================== >Richard A. Cini, Jr. >First Vice President >Congress Financial Corporation >1133 Avenue of the Americas >30th Floor >New York, NY 10036 >(212) 545-4402 >(212) 840-6259 (facsimile) > > From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Jan 25 10:12:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Free stuff References: Message-ID: <001301c2c48d$215d7140$0100000a@milkyway> Witchy wrote: > Heh, you've reminded me I've got a single speed Mitsumi drive > complete with ISA card in an old Apricot XEN - the whole mechanism, > transport and all, comes out of the case when you hit the eject > button and the top flips up like a record player! They obviously > hadn't mastered the 'tray' idea at that point :) Really? Any chance of a photo? -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From fauradon at frontiernet.net Sat Jan 25 10:15:00 2003 From: fauradon at frontiernet.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: 5110 trade update References: Message-ID: <003601c2c49d$efcd1660$0264640a@auradon.com> OK, I am actively ignoring you right now! Francois ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris" To: Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 7:16 AM Subject: Re: 5110 trade update > >Funny people with a $5 offer will be actively ignored :) > > Ok... I'll offer $6 > > :-p > > -chris > > > > From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sat Jan 25 10:40:01 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape Message-ID: <0301251643.AA12733@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Jochen Kunz wrote: > Well, I had to use some programm to write the tapes, dd(1), maketape, or > somthing else. I made good experiences with maketape to write 2.11BSD > tapes, so I stayed with it and it worked very well.=20 > > [...] > > The same for dd(1). There may some implementation differences in dd(1), > say on SunOS or AIX, that may produce unusable tapes. Therefore I used > maketape. I had a glance at the code and it seams that it does > everything proper on every UNIX and Unix-like OS. > Don't forget the chicken-egg problem. If I have no 4.3BSD-Quasijarus > running, I have to use some random foreign OS to produce distribution > tapes. (Or I have to bother somone else to do it for me.) But dd is a standard general-purpose tool, as opposed to a highly specialized program for installing 2.11BSD. > I learnd that the bs=3D parameter of dd doesn't set the block size of the > tape with an ioctl, it is only the buffersize parameter that is used in > the write(2) syscall.=20 On every system I have used the sizes of records written on tapes are determined precisely by how much you write with one write or writev syscall, no ioctl needed. But if some weird system does require a special syscall, I can bet that dd on *that* system will make it. On each system its native dd utility will always do the right thing, as opposed to some special program ripped out of a 2.11BSD distribution and used for something it was never intended for (to write dist tapes for a completely different OS). MS From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sat Jan 25 10:46:01 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Quasijarus 4.3BSD on 1600bpi magtape Message-ID: <0301251649.AA12755@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > - select the correct tape boot blocks > (MT, TK etc) Not for 4.3BSD-QJ0a. You simply write the stand file from my distribution on the tape as the first file with 512-byte records. There is only one tape distribution for all machines and flavors. > - grab the correct kernel and/or RAM disk image Neither for 4.3BSD-Quasijarus (or for any Berkeley distribution ever made for that matter). MS From Innfogra at aol.com Sat Jan 25 11:20:01 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: Data processing equip for sale Message-ID: <1ef.287299.2b642228@aol.com> Hi; Where are you located? Paxton Astoria. OR From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sat Jan 25 12:17:58 2003 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: cool find. In-Reply-To: <209C86B6-3022-11D7-A3B2-0030653F44C8@carnagevisors.net> Message-ID: <200301251820.MAA28362@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > I just got myself an Indigo2 R8000. > and the cool thing is I actually got a copy of IRIX 6.5 with it, I now > have IRIX media Yay! > I wasnt aware Irix CD's were at all rare. -Lawrence LeMay From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jan 25 12:33:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:04 2005 Subject: 5110 trade update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >Funny people with a $5 offer will be actively ignored :) > Ok... I'll offer $6 $7.50 if you throw in free shipping! From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Jan 25 13:02:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: Intel 8751 References: <48D40DE6-304D-11D7-98ED-000393970B96@neurotica.com> Message-ID: <003301c2c4a4$f01fed20$0100000a@milkyway> Dave McGuire wrote: > I'm currently looking at the DS80C400. That is one scary chip. > Hardware math accelerator, 10/100Mbps ethernet controller, TCP/IP > stack and multitasking OS primitives in on-chip ROM...most impressive. I've got some samples. Unfortunately it's beginning to look like I might have to buy and cannibalise an Ethernet card. Unless someone here has a spare they want rid of. I need the Ethernet interface transformer and RJ45 socket to be intact at the very least. > This is a microcontroller that can, no shit, boot its firmware via > DHCP and TFTP. That settles it - I've got a spare 256kbit RAM lying around somewhere that's just begging to be used, plus I've got a spare MAX233 (SOIC SMD) and some odd-job parts. This 80C400 is getting turned into a webserver :-) Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Sat Jan 25 13:44:00 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: COBOL (Was: strange things to do with your IBM System/3x) In-Reply-To: <2586.4.20.168.172.1043461077.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030124194007.025d5400@pop.freeserve.net> At 18:17 24/01/2003 -0800, Eric Smith wrote: >[***} I'll bet you never expected to see "COBOL" and "reasonable language" > in the same sentence, without an "isn't" between them. :-) Now I'm > not saying that I *like* COBOL, but there are definitely some things > that it is better-suited for than Fortran IV. For my sins, part of my "real job" involves programming in COBOL: Just spent the last week or so interfacing the accounts package to a telephone system (so it pops up with customer enquiries when they pick up the phone). It's actually written in some souped up 32-bit database environment, but it's basically COBOL with bells-and-whistles. Anybody want to offer me a decent job? Somewhere I've got a Microfive 1000 (12 user 8088) running the 16-bit version of the same OS, which I wrote an adventure game on. Somewhere else I've got a partially-ported version of "Countdown to Doom", an adventure game for the BBC Micro, which I was converting about 10 years ago... I miss the text-only adventure games; all these graphics intensive point-and-click games these days just arn't the same. Rob From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Jan 25 14:42:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: COBOL (Was: strange things to do with your IBM System/3x) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030124194007.025d5400@pop.freeserve.net> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030124194007.025d5400@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <32889.64.169.63.74.1043527529.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I miss the text-only adventure games; all these graphics intensive > point-and-click games these days just arn't the same. You're in luck, since even more text-only adventure games are being written now than back in the heyday of commercial text adventures. And they're free (as in no charge). The quality is really variable, but that was true of the commercial stuff as well. Check out the Interactive Fiction Archive: http://ifarchive.org/ And the newsgroups rec.games.int-fiction and rec.arts.int-fiction. From fauradon at frontiernet.net Sat Jan 25 15:18:00 2003 From: fauradon at frontiernet.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: Taper proof tools. Message-ID: <000701c2c4c8$31cb3720$0264640a@auradon.com> Hi all, I am looking for one of those tamper proof tool for the sega nomad. It is basically the same shape as the screws for the game cartridges on the genesis but it is so far recessed (3/4 in) that the pliers trick will not work. Anyone know of a source for such tool? Thank you Francois From liste at artware.qc.ca Sat Jan 25 15:20:42 2003 From: liste at artware.qc.ca (liste@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: cool find. In-Reply-To: <209C86B6-3022-11D7-A3B2-0030653F44C8@carnagevisors.net> Message-ID: On 25-Jan-2003 Benjamin Gardiner wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Okay cool find for the day. > > I just got myself an Indigo2 R8000. Aren't those not "rated" for use at home? (Who cares? :) I'm very envious! -Philip From fauradon at frontiernet.net Sat Jan 25 15:23:01 2003 From: fauradon at frontiernet.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: 5110 trade update References: Message-ID: <000f01c2c4c8$9fe3b980$0264640a@auradon.com> Don't make me actively ignore you too! Pretty soon there will be so many people I'll have to actively ignore that I won't have time left for those that I don't ignore. Francois Minnesota USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 10:37 AM Subject: Re: 5110 trade update > > >Funny people with a $5 offer will be actively ignored :) > > Ok... I'll offer $6 > > $7.50 if you throw in free shipping! > > > From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Jan 25 15:29:52 2003 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: cool find. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <79AE3298-30AC-11D7-98ED-000393970B96@neurotica.com> On Saturday, January 25, 2003, at 04:21 PM, liste@artware.qc.ca wrote: >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Okay cool find for the day. >> >> I just got myself an Indigo2 R8000. > > Aren't those not "rated" for use at home? (Who cares? :) Eh? An Indigo2 is a small desktop machine. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "Wear whatever you want...Just don't be surprised St. Petersburg, FL if you wind up with a blow-gun dart in your prosthetic boobies." -Kurt Huhn From computermuseum at pandora.be Sat Jan 25 15:34:00 2003 From: computermuseum at pandora.be (Computermuseum) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: 5110 trade update In-Reply-To: <000f01c2c4c8$9fe3b980$0264640a@auradon.com> Message-ID: I bid... 100 Us$ Michel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens Sue & Francois Verzonden: zondag 26 januari 2003 0:22 Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org Onderwerp: Re: 5110 trade update Don't make me actively ignore you too! Pretty soon there will be so many people I'll have to actively ignore that I won't have time left for those that I don't ignore. Francois Minnesota USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 10:37 AM Subject: Re: 5110 trade update > > >Funny people with a $5 offer will be actively ignored :) > > Ok... I'll offer $6 > > $7.50 if you throw in free shipping! > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 25 16:04:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: Free stuff In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Jan 24, 3 09:26:03 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1631 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030125/6989ea56/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 25 16:06:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: New to list In-Reply-To: <036001c2c417$12af85a0$0200a8c0@cosmo> from "ssj152" at Jan 24, 3 08:11:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1610 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030125/74ce00e9/attachment.ksh From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sat Jan 25 16:08:00 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: Free stuff In-Reply-To: <001301c2c48d$215d7140$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: I have one of those drives somewhere. They are rather interesting. I'll see if I can find it - if so, I'll take a picture of it and post it on my server. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Saturday, January 25, 2003, at 11:16 AM, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Witchy wrote: >> Heh, you've reminded me I've got a single speed Mitsumi drive >> complete with ISA card in an old Apricot XEN - the whole mechanism, >> transport and all, comes out of the case when you hit the eject >> button and the top flips up like a record player! They obviously >> hadn't mastered the 'tray' idea at that point :) > Really? Any chance of a photo? > > -- > Phil. > philpem@dsl.pipex.com > http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ > From dholland at woh.rr.com Sat Jan 25 16:35:00 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: Slightly OT? Squished Boxes.. Message-ID: <1043534816.31221.7.camel@crusader> Perhaps this is slightly off topic.. (If so, someone say something, and I'll hush..) I was down in the basement when I stumbled across my box of moldy old software, (mostly pre-1995 IBM PC oriented stuff) and thought to myself, "Hmmm, maybe I should put these up on a bookshelf instead of letting them rot down here." Anyways, upon pulling them out of said box, I noticed a number of the boxes had become fairly squished/dented/etc.. (Next time pack them better. :-/ ) Any body ever try to "restore" old software/computer boxes? Got any tips? Thanks, David From dholland at woh.rr.com Sat Jan 25 16:39:00 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: cool find. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1043534923.31221.10.camel@crusader> I think your thinking of a Crimson DeskSide. Its not a power issue... (They just require a dedicated 20A circuit if your going to leave them on for any length of time, and a NEUMA(sp?) plugin, or adaptor.) The issue w/ Crimsons, as I understand it is FCC related. They're insufficiently shielded, and you might whack your neighbors Channel 3.. :-) David On Sat, 2003-01-25 at 16:21, liste@artware.qc.ca wrote: > > On 25-Jan-2003 Benjamin Gardiner wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Okay cool find for the day. > > > > I just got myself an Indigo2 R8000. > > Aren't those not "rated" for use at home? (Who cares? :) > > I'm very envious! > > -Philip From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sat Jan 25 16:41:10 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: cool find. In-Reply-To: <209C86B6-3022-11D7-A3B2-0030653F44C8@carnagevisors.net> Message-ID: <3B67F8EC-30B6-11D7-959B-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Saturday, January 25, 2003, at 12:01 AM, Benjamin Gardiner wrote: > > > I just got myself an Indigo2 R8000. > and the cool thing is I actually got a copy of IRIX 6.5 with it, I now > have IRIX media Yay! > Very cool. I have an Indigo2 as well, and I really like it. Mine has Irix 6.5 installed, but I don't have the media. One thing about it though, I have not been able to get it up on the network properly. I have configured it and everything, and told it the DNS address, but it still can't resolve any URL's. I can go to sites by typing in the IP address, however, and I can ping the other machines on the network. I'm sure there is a simple solution, but I haven't found it. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From jrice54 at charter.net Sat Jan 25 17:45:15 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: cool find. In-Reply-To: <3B67F8EC-30B6-11D7-959B-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> References: <3B67F8EC-30B6-11D7-959B-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E332328.5070906@charter.net> You need to edit your resolv.conf file to something like this: hostresorder local bind domain charter.net nameserver 151.164.1.8 nameserver 151.164.11.209 nameserver 192.168.1.6 If you don't have a resolv.conf file then use nedit to creat one. You may not need three entries. The first two in mine are my ISP's nameserver, the third one is the DNS server on my employers net that I am VPN'ed into so I can administer it from home. This is from my Indy running 6.5.x James Ian Primus wrote: > > On Saturday, January 25, 2003, at 12:01 AM, Benjamin Gardiner wrote: > >> >> >> I just got myself an Indigo2 R8000. >> and the cool thing is I actually got a copy of IRIX 6.5 with it, I now >> have IRIX media Yay! >> > > Very cool. I have an Indigo2 as well, and I really like it. Mine has > Irix 6.5 installed, but I don't have the media. One thing about it > though, I have not been able to get it up on the network properly. I > have configured it and everything, and told it the DNS address, but it > still can't resolve any URL's. I can go to sites by typing in the IP > address, however, and I can ping the other machines on the network. > I'm sure there is a simple solution, but I haven't found it. Anyone > have any ideas? Thanks! > > Ian Primus > ian_primus@yahoo.com > > -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From jrice54 at charter.net Sat Jan 25 17:48:52 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: cool find. In-Reply-To: <200301251820.MAA28362@caesar.cs.umn.edu> References: <200301251820.MAA28362@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3E33244B.9050907@charter.net> Not rare, just expensive. Unless you have a cozy relationship with your SGI office, they want to sell you a service and support contract before selling you the media and wanted to charge me $600 for a media set. All for a $100 Indy. So I bought one on ebay for a much more reasonable amount. James Lawrence LeMay wrote: >>I just got myself an Indigo2 R8000. >>and the cool thing is I actually got a copy of IRIX 6.5 with it, I now >>have IRIX media Yay! >> >> >> > >I wasnt aware Irix CD's were at all rare. > >-Lawrence LeMay > > > -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From n8uhn at yahoo.com Sat Jan 25 18:02:47 2003 From: n8uhn at yahoo.com (Bill Allen Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: Subject: strange things to do with your IBM System/3x Message-ID: <20030126000554.43062.qmail@web40704.mail.yahoo.com> after reading the subject line, i thought the article was going to be about sledge hammers or making them into wet bars (yes on the web - someone has made a vax rack into a wet bar). all the ibm languages were available for the sys/34 and i have all of them basic,cobol,rpgii and fortran. i even have diag and ssp (system support program, ibm's os for sys3x) the two sys34's i have both have bad control storage cards - a typical problem with 5 years in cold storage. otherwise i would be playing with them and not this basic less sys/36. the ssp and all languages for the sys/34 are not compatable with the 36. i did find the 3270 emulator for the 34 and i may have pc support for the 34 - i know i have both for the 36. i found out that one of my 34's came from the local collage - which explains the "funtime" diskettes. they are programs is basic that have printfiles for many "pic's" and football and other text based games. Bill Message: 42 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 18:17:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: strange things to do with your IBM System/3x (was Re: ibm sys/36 5360 basic needed) From: "Eric Smith" To: Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > I might, I'll have to check.. I know I have COBOL and SSP and some other > crud... When I was in junior high school, my friend Doug got a job working on RPG code on a System/34. In his spare time, he translated ADVENT [*] from PDP-10 Fortran to RPG II [**] to run on the System/34. I don't know if there existed a Fortran compiler for the System/34, but if there was, his employer apparently didn't have it. COBOL would actually be a more reasonable language [***] into which to translate ADVENT, and there was a System/34 COBOL compiler. All of the text-handling code in ADVENT is non-portable, because back then FORTRAN didn't have reasonable support for arrays of characters. The number of characters that would pack into any given numeric type was implementation-dependent. On the PDP-10, that was five 7-bit ASCII characters per 36-bit word, with one bit left over. I think Fortran 77 fixed this problem, by defining an actual CHARACTER type. Unfortunately I haven't been in touch with Doug in over twenty years now; I have no idea whether he still has a copy of his RPG ADVENT. Which is a shame, because it would be nice to try it with the Eraseerhead RPG II compiler, which is GPL'd: http://rpg.eraserhead.net/ Eric [*] The original Colossal Cave Adventure game by Crowther and Woods, written in Fortran for the DEC PDP-10. Named "ADVENT" because the TOPS-10 operating system only allows for six-character filenames in SIXBIT code, which does not include lower case. [**] Or maybe it was RPG III. I don't really know what was available on the System/34 back in the late 1970s. [***} I'll bet you never expected to see "COBOL" and "reasonable language" in the same sentence, without an "isn't" between them. :-) Now I'm not saying that I *like* COBOL, but there are definitely some things that it is better-suited for than Fortran IV. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From swperk at earthlink.net Sat Jan 25 18:49:00 2003 From: swperk at earthlink.net (Stan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: Problem with 9836C floppy drive--resolved, but I'm not sure why! In-Reply-To: <20030125180001.14711.52648.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: Hi Tony and everyone, Thanks for the suggestions. All of the floppies that I substituted looked absolutely identical to the one that wasn't working. The last thing that I did was to try another floppy drive data cable (it's the standard PC-style dual floppy cable with the 34-pin IDC connector on the controller end and the card edge connector on the other end). When I simply replaced the original cable on the left-hand drive with the new one, the problem remained. When I swapped the cables to each drive (right going to left and left going to right), it worked perfectly! I assume that there must be some sort of drive select or other difference between the two floppy drives, but why the right one works in either location, and the left one works only as the primary (right-hand) drive is beyond me. After I convinced myself that everything was now okay, I physically interchanged the floppies (left to right and right to left) and took the opportunity to examine them very carefully to look for differences. I saw none. Even the date codes were identical! I'm not saying that there aren't any differences--in fact, there must be--but there wasn't anything obvious to me. The only difference with the 9836C that I notice now (besides the obvious lack of an error message at startup) is that the LED on the floppy controller board labeled "TR00" (those are zeroes) is no longer illuminated after the POST. I assume that is a Track 0 seek failure indicator, but I'm just speculating. Whatever the case, I'm delighted that it's fixed! Thanks to everyone for their help and suggestions! Regards, Stan From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Subject: Re: Problem with 9836C floppy drive To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 19:06:48 +0000 (GMT) Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > series of high and low pitched beeps (low, low, high, low, high, high, low). I assume that's some kind of error code, which would be useful if the video side was malfunctioning. Anyone have a table of them? > After that, it is able to load an OS (HP BASIC) and run fine, with the > exception that the left-hand floppy drive is inaccessible. > > I've taken a known good floppy drive, floppy controller, and even the CPU I assume you checked that the replacement drive was configured the same way (link settings, termination resistor pack) as the old one? What about the cables to this drive? Have you checked it's getting power (IIRC there's a conventional 4 pin power connector in there). Have you tested/swapped the data cable? -tony From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Jan 25 19:48:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: Early CD-ROM drives (was Re: Free stuff) In-Reply-To: References: from "Witchy" at Jan 24, 3 09:26:03 am Message-ID: <33158.64.169.63.74.1043545907.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Tony Duell wrote: > My only CD-ROM drive is an external Philips unit which is clearly a > modified CD player. Officially modified -- as in a production run -- not > some hacker kludging the interfaces on, though. It _looks_ like a CD > player (and is about the same size), but has a DA15 connector on the > back as well as a couple of RCA phono sockets for audio out. Inside, > many of the chips are similar to those in a CD player -- there's one > extra chip to grab the right part of the data stream and send it to the > PC, and there's modified firmware in at least one of the > microcontrollers so that it can take commands from the PC over a custom > serial interface. The ISA card that links to this has a large ASIC (PLCC > package), an SRAM chip and a couple of buffers. > > I do have the service manual for it, but it doesn't give any details of > talking to it directly or what's inside the ASICs. Just schematics and > alignment data for the drive unit itself. Your descriptions sound somewhat, but not exactly, like the Philips CM100 CD-ROM drive and its associated interface card. The CM100 is a top-loading drive, but it does not have any audio outputs. It does not contain any ASICs, though it does use the Signetics CD-Audio chip set. To that, it adds a *lot* of TTL and CMOS SSI and MSI chips to reformat the data. The interface to the PC is via four RS422 differential pairs through the DA15 connector. The microprocessor in the drive is an 8051. I've disassembled the code into a source file and commented large portions of it. The interface could have, with only minor changes, supported multiple drives attached to one controller, but they didn't implement that. They did put a DIP switch on the drive to select a unit number, but they didn't put in enables for the RS-422 drivers. The drive is designed to display some diagnostic information to an external four digit LED display module made by III-V Semiconductor, a spinoff of National Semiconductor now known as Three-Five Systems. These LED modules are no longer readily available, so I programmed a PIC with a character LCD module to replace it. Philips also made the CM110, which was a CM100 with an internal SCSI bridge board added. I haven't been able to find one. DEC OEM'd the CM100 as the RRD50, and made their own Qbus and Unibus host adapters for it. I've been looking for those, too. > I also have the manaul for the CD player that it was based on. What model was it? Eric From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Jan 25 19:56:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: US electrical plugs and receptacles (was RE: cool find.) In-Reply-To: <1043534923.31221.10.camel@crusader> References: <1043534923.31221.10.camel@crusader> Message-ID: <33175.64.169.63.74.1043546379.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> David Holland wrote: > I think your thinking of a Crimson DeskSide. > > Its not a power issue... (They just require a dedicated 20A circuit if > your going to leave them on for any length of time, and a NEUMA(sp?) > plugin, or adaptor.) If you're talking about a normal US 120V 20A single-phase grounded circuit, that would be a NEMA 5-20P plug and a NEMA 5-20R receptacle. The 5-20R receptacle can also accept the "normal" 15A 5-15P plug, as commonly seen on almost all US consumer electrical products. There is a great reference table on NEMA receptacles and plugs on the Quail Electronics web site: http://www.quail.com/locator/nema.htm I've considered buying a copy of the actual NEMA standard, but thus far I've resisted the urge. From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Jan 25 20:06:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: Subject: strange things to do with your IBM System/3x In-Reply-To: <20030126000554.43062.qmail@web40704.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030126000554.43062.qmail@web40704.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <33179.64.169.63.74.1043546969.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Bill Allen Jr wrote: > all the ibm languages were available for the sys/34 > and i have all of them basic,cobol,rpgii and fortran. Somewhat of a brash statement, as PL/I and APL were also "IBM languages". :-) > the two sys34's i have both have bad control storage > cards - a typical problem with 5 years in cold > storage. That's a shame! I've got the same problem with one of my IBM 5100 Portable Computers; the one with both BASIC and APL fails the non-executable ROS self test. My other unit only has BASIC. The 5100 contains three kinds of ROS (Read Only Storage, IBM's term for ROM). There is a very small high-speed bipolar ROS on the PALM processor card, containing its microcode. There is about 16K words (BASIC-only) or 32K words (APL-only or BASIC & APL) of "executable ROS" which is directly mapped into the PALM address space and contains the system startup, self-test, and I/O code, and the interpreters for the virtual machines. Then there is a larger "non-executable ROS" which contains the virtual machine code for the BASIC and/or APL interpreters. This is stored in IBM 48 Kbit MOS ROM chips (6K*8). There is no parity on the non-executable ROS, but the self-test verifies the checksum of each chip. Bipolar PROMs suffer from dendritic regrowth of the blown fuses, and EPROMs, EEPROMs, and flash memory suffer from the charge on the floating gate eventually leaking away. But I'm not sure what the common failure mechanisms for NMOS mask-programmed ROM might be. Sigh. From blstuart at bellsouth.net Sat Jan 25 20:37:00 2003 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: Harvard Mark I Manual On-Line Message-ID: I haven't seen this announced here, so for those of you who don't read alt.folklore.computers, Al Kossow has made available a scanned copy of the Manual of Operation for the Harvard Mark I. It's at: http://www.spies.com/aek/pdf/harvard/MarkI_operMan_1946.pdf Be forewarned, however, it's big-about 43Meg. I have a real soft spot for this one. Back in college, I was wandering the library stacks one day looking for something interesting. A book caught my eye. It was a black hardbound book about 2 inches thich with the simple title Manual of Operation. Of course, my curiosity was piqued; I just had to take a look. I'd never heard of the Mark I, but I was absolutly enthralled. I credit that find with much of my interest in the history of computing. By the way, anyone know of an emulator for the Mark I? Brian L. Stuart From foxvideo at wincom.net Sat Jan 25 21:07:00 2003 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: Slightly OT? Squished Boxes.. In-Reply-To: <1043534816.31221.7.camel@crusader> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030125220807.01fa0130@mail.wincom.net> At 05:46 PM 25/01/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Perhaps this is slightly off topic.. (If so, someone say something, and >I'll hush..) > >I was down in the basement when I stumbled across my box of moldy old >software, (mostly pre-1995 IBM PC oriented stuff) and thought to myself, >"Hmmm, maybe I should put these up on a bookshelf instead of letting >them rot down here." > >Anyways, upon pulling them out of said box, I noticed a number of the >boxes had become fairly squished/dented/etc.. (Next time pack them >better. :-/ ) > >Any body ever try to "restore" old software/computer boxes? Got any >tips? > >Thanks, > >David I was recently given a few cubic feet of old Amiga games in similar condition. About the only solution I could think of was judicious use of staples. Regards Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sat Jan 25 21:23:00 2003 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: cool find. In-Reply-To: <3B67F8EC-30B6-11D7-959B-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <04C737DF-30DE-11D7-829C-000502512D39@calico.litterbox.com> Can you ping your domain name server? On Saturday, January 25, 2003, at 03:42 PM, Ian Primus wrote: > I can go to sites by typing in the IP address, however, and I can > ping the other machines on the network. I'm sure there is a simple > solution, but I haven't found it. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks! From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sat Jan 25 21:43:01 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: cool find. In-Reply-To: <3E332328.5070906@charter.net> Message-ID: I've tried that, I still can't get anywhere in Netscape, or ping an address like www.google.com. My /etc/resolv.conf is about the same, only with my ISP's nameserver. I have also gone through the System Manager utility several times too. Besides the fact that I can't resolve anything from the console, when I start netscape, I get a dialog box that says that hosts are unreachable, and says that if I must use a non-root name server, I have to set the $SOCKS_NS environment variable to point at the name server. I have tried setting this manually from the command line, but to no avail. I'm probably using the wrong command. My UNIX experience comes from Linux and Mac OS X, so I haven't really had a whole lot of practice at stuff like this. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Saturday, January 25, 2003, at 06:52 PM, James Rice wrote: > You need to edit your resolv.conf file to something like this: > > hostresorder local bind > > domain charter.net > > nameserver 151.164.1.8 > nameserver 151.164.11.209 > nameserver 192.168.1.6 > > > > If you don't have a resolv.conf file then use nedit to creat one. You > may not need three entries. The first two in mine are my ISP's > nameserver, the third one is the DNS server on my employers net that > I am VPN'ed into so I can administer it from home. This is from my > Indy running 6.5.x > > James > > Ian Primus wrote: > >> >> On Saturday, January 25, 2003, at 12:01 AM, Benjamin Gardiner wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> I just got myself an Indigo2 R8000. >>> and the cool thing is I actually got a copy of IRIX 6.5 with it, I >>> now >>> have IRIX media Yay! >>> >> >> Very cool. I have an Indigo2 as well, and I really like it. Mine has >> Irix 6.5 installed, but I don't have the media. One thing about it >> though, I have not been able to get it up on the network properly. I >> have configured it and everything, and told it the DNS address, but >> it still can't resolve any URL's. I can go to sites by typing in the >> IP address, however, and I can ping the other machines on the >> network. I'm sure there is a simple solution, but I haven't found it. >> Anyone have any ideas? Thanks! >> >> Ian Primus >> ian_primus@yahoo.com >> >> > > > -- > http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html > > From msspcva at yahoo.com Sat Jan 25 22:06:00 2003 From: msspcva at yahoo.com (Clayton Frank Helvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: dwp 220 tandy In-Reply-To: <4d.2ad06399.2b631015@aol.com> Message-ID: <20030126040933.8643.qmail@web41108.mail.yahoo.com> Wolf, you could try the Computer News 80 guys, they support the TRS80 community with a bimonthly newsletter, parts, info, etc. Located at: www.cnpublishing.com Email: compnew@trib.com -- Frank --- MUSHHI@aol.com wrote: > help > where can i get a daisy printwheel for my obsolete > Tandy 220 dwp printer > thanks wolf 360-825-2200 > ===== = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= Clayton Frank Helvey, President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com ============================================================ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 25 23:22:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: Seeking LaserJet IIISi I/O card Message-ID: <20030126052548.32930.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> I have asked in the past about a replacement card for my HP LJ-IIID with little success (they are apparently somewhat rare). Several people offered me ones that did not physically fit. Well now, I have a *newer* old HP printer, an HP LJ-IIISi that takes the square interface cards with the white/grey 3-row connector. Unfortunately, the printer I got from OSU surplus (which seems to print just fine) only has this truely ancient C2059A integral print server - no serial or parallel, Novell only. :-( Worse, the firmware is particularly obsolete and deprecated by HP. So... if anyone has a spare interface card, I'm interested. Two, in fact; one for me and one for a friend who needs to hook another IIISi to his OS X Mac. The printer is on-topic (mine was manufactured in 1991) at least. Let me know cost/part numbers/etc off-list. Thanks, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 25 23:32:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: IRIX distro (was Re: cool find.) In-Reply-To: <200301251820.MAA28362@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20030126053511.14317.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > > I just got myself an Indigo2 R8000. > > and the cool thing is I actually got a copy of IRIX 6.5 with it, I now > > have IRIX media Yay! > > > > I wasnt aware Irix CD's were at all rare. Me neither. In fact, I could use a set for a friend in Germany. I'll have to find out precisely what he's after, but I would initially think it's for something in the Indy/Indigo class (not like a Crimson or Onyx) and as new as feasible. Can anyone help? Thanks, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From red at bears.org Sat Jan 25 23:34:00 2003 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: cool find. In-Reply-To: <3B67F8EC-30B6-11D7-959B-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> References: <3B67F8EC-30B6-11D7-959B-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 25 Jan 2003, Ian Primus wrote: > sure there is a simple solution, but I haven't found it. Anyone have > any ideas? Thanks! add 'dns' to the end of the 'hosts:' line in /etc/nsswitch.conf HTH ok r. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 25 23:37:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: Text Adventures (was Re: COBOL) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030124194007.025d5400@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <20030126054007.29651.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Rob O'Donnell wrote: > I miss the text-only adventure games; all these graphics intensive > point-and-click games these days just arn't the same. http://www.ifarchive.org/ -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sun Jan 26 00:02:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: IRIX distro (was Re: cool find.) In-Reply-To: <20030126053511.14317.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 25 Jan 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > I wasnt aware Irix CD's were at all rare. > > Me neither. In fact, I could use a set for a friend in Germany. I'll > have to find out precisely what he's after, but I would initially think > it's for something in the Indy/Indigo class (not like a Crimson or Onyx) > and as new as feasible. > > Can anyone help? IRIX 6.5 supports pretty much everything from Indys up through their big Origin servers. I don't recall precisely where the cut-off is with support of the older systems. Certainly not any of the R3000 based ones, but I don't remember if the older straight R4000 Indigo2s were or not, but I know that the R5000 Indys and the R4400 Indigo2s are supported--probably the R4600 Indys too--and basically everything more recent than those. Get me the details of his system, and I'll see what I can find. IRIX is quite a nice Unix. -brian. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 26 00:18:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: IRIX distro (was Re: cool find.) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030126062114.25553.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Brian Chase wrote: > IRIX is quite a nice Unix. I used to develop for it at my previous position (that and AIX and HP/UX and Solaris). No complaints. Not sure what the underlying hardware was... they never let us see it (nor would they warn us in advance precisely *what* the target was ;-) It was all ksh/Perl/C stuff... text, text and more text. Not sure why they had SGI hardware in that environment. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jan 26 00:19:40 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: IRIX distro (was Re: cool find.) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 25 Jan 2003, Brian Chase wrote: > IRIX 6.5 supports pretty much everything from Indys up through their > big Origin servers. I don't recall precisely where the cut-off is with > support of the older systems. Certainly not any of the R3000 based > ones, but I don't remember if the older straight R4000 Indigo2s were or > not, but I know that the R5000 Indys and the R4400 Indigo2s are > supported--probably the R4600 Indys too--and basically everything more > recent than those. R4000 and R4600 Indys are supported, meaning the R4k Indigo2 ought to be. Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jan 26 00:25:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: Spectrum Holobyte Tetris Message-ID: I ran across the unopened box today at a Salvation Army thrift. First, is there any reason to leave it unopened? It's not all that rare, is it? Second, this box is marked "IBM PC or Tandy 1000", but on the back it has features listed as "Macintosh, Macintosh II, Apple IIGS, Amiga, and Atari ST" only. Does this box include all those versions? Doc From cb at mythtech.net Sun Jan 26 00:28:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: Subject: strange things to do with your IBM System/3x Message-ID: >> all the ibm languages were available for the sys/34 >> and i have all of them basic,cobol,rpgii and fortran. > >Somewhat of a brash statement, as PL/I and APL were also >"IBM languages". :-) Sheesh... seeing the languages listed out... its like playing thru the levels of TRON :-) -chris From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Jan 26 03:09:01 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: Intel 8751 In-Reply-To: <003301c2c4a4$f01fed20$0100000a@milkyway> References: <48D40DE6-304D-11D7-98ED-000393970B96@neurotica.com> <003301c2c4a4$f01fed20$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: On Sat, 25 Jan 2003, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Dave McGuire wrote: > > > I'm currently looking at the DS80C400. That is one scary chip. > > Hardware math accelerator, 10/100Mbps ethernet controller, TCP/IP > > stack and multitasking OS primitives in on-chip ROM...most impressive. > > I've got some samples. Unfortunately it's beginning to look like I might > have to buy and cannibalise an Ethernet card. Unless someone here has a > spare they want rid of. I need the Ethernet interface transformer and > RJ45 socket to be intact at the very least. I think one of my local surplus dealers still has a bin of those pulse transformers. How many are you looking for? I also don't know what the normal price for these should be, and normally they don't have a fixed price either... Since we are on the subject of ethernet parts, does anyone know of a source for 8392 chips in a standard dip package? One local surplus dealer in town has a ton, but they think they are worth $20+/ea, so I need to find a source for at least a couple parts. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Jan 26 03:17:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: US electrical plugs and receptacles (was RE: cool find.) In-Reply-To: <33175.64.169.63.74.1043546379.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <1043534923.31221.10.camel@crusader> <33175.64.169.63.74.1043546379.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 25 Jan 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > David Holland wrote: > > > I think your thinking of a Crimson DeskSide. > > > > Its not a power issue... (They just require a dedicated 20A circuit if > > your going to leave them on for any length of time, and a NEUMA(sp?) > > plugin, or adaptor.) > > If you're talking about a normal US 120V 20A single-phase grounded > circuit, that would be a NEMA 5-20P plug and a NEMA 5-20R receptacle. > The 5-20R receptacle can also accept the "normal" 15A 5-15P plug, as > commonly seen on almost all US consumer electrical products. The Crimson and earlier Power Series Deskside systems use a 20A twist lock connector. The power cable for the systems uses a NEMA L5-20P plug and NEMA L5-20R receptacle. The Hubbell part numbers for these parts are: insulgrip plug: HBL2311 insulgrip receptacle: HBL2313 single flush receptacle (outlet): HBL2310 -Toth From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jan 26 04:18:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: IRIX distro (was Re: cool find.) In-Reply-To: Doc Shipley "Re: IRIX distro (was Re: cool find.)" (Jan 26, 0:21) References: Message-ID: <10301261021.ZM4692@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 26, 0:21, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Sat, 25 Jan 2003, Brian Chase wrote: > > > IRIX 6.5 supports pretty much everything from Indys up through their > > big Origin servers. I don't recall precisely where the cut-off is with > > support of the older systems. Certainly not any of the R3000 based > > ones, but I don't remember if the older straight R4000 Indigo2s were or > > not, but I know that the R5000 Indys and the R4400 Indigo2s are > > supported--probably the R4600 Indys too--and basically everything more > > recent than those. > > R4000 and R4600 Indys are supported, meaning the R4k Indigo2 ought to > be. 6.5 supports R4000 Indigo, all Indigo^2, all Indy, and anything later. A Crimson needs 5.3 or 6.2, not 6.5. An R3000 Indigo needs 5.3 or earlier. Actually, some of the older smaller machines run better with 5.3, but you need a big collection of patches, some of which are hard to find on SGI's "new improved" web site right now. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jan 26 04:20:24 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: cool find. In-Reply-To: James Rice "Re: cool find." (Jan 25, 17:52) References: <3B67F8EC-30B6-11D7-959B-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> <3E332328.5070906@charter.net> Message-ID: <10301261014.ZM4687@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 25, 17:52, James Rice wrote: > You need to edit your resolv.conf file to something like this: > > hostresorder local bind > > domain charter.net > > nameserver 151.164.1.8 > nameserver 151.164.11.209 > nameserver 192.168.1.6 > If you don't have a resolv.conf file then use nedit to creat one. You > may not need three entries. The first two in mine are my ISP's > nameserver, the third one is the DNS server on my employers net that I > am VPN'ed into so I can administer it from home. This is from my Indy > running 6.5.x You only need one, but you can put in up to three. The hostresorder line isn't used, though -- it's a hangover from earlier versions and will be ignored in Irix 6.2 and upwards. What you need is an entry in /etc/nsswitch.conf, with the lines hosts: files dns ipnodes: files dns Most software uses the functions that use the hosts line, some uses ipnodes. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sun Jan 26 06:31:00 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: cool find. In-Reply-To: <04C737DF-30DE-11D7-829C-000502512D39@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <7F56A4CD-312A-11D7-959B-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Saturday, January 25, 2003, at 10:26 PM, Jim Strickland wrote: > Can you ping your domain name server? > Yes, I can. I have also tried using both the DNS addresses provided by the ISP, as well as the address of my router, which works for all of my other machines. I can even access web servers if I manually punch in the IP address. > On Saturday, January 25, 2003, at 03:42 PM, Ian Primus wrote: > > > >> I can go to sites by typing in the IP address, however, and I can >> ping the other machines on the network. I'm sure there is a simple >> solution, but I haven't found it. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks! > > > Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Sun Jan 26 06:33:03 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: Text Adventures (was Re: COBOL) In-Reply-To: <20030126054007.29651.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030124194007.025d5400@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030125123357.02255098@pop.freeserve.net> Thanks, and to Eric Smith, for both pointing me here. I can see I've got many happy hours perusing this site :-) At 21:40 25/01/2003 -0800, Ethan Dicks wrote: >--- Rob O'Donnell wrote: > > I miss the text-only adventure games; all these graphics intensive > > point-and-click games these days just arn't the same. > >http://www.ifarchive.org/ > >-ethan > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sun Jan 26 06:34:28 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: cool find. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sunday, January 26, 2003, at 12:36 AM, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > On Sat, 25 Jan 2003, Ian Primus wrote: > >> sure there is a simple solution, but I haven't found it. Anyone have >> any ideas? Thanks! > > add 'dns' to the end of the 'hosts:' line in /etc/nsswitch.conf I checked, it's already there. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jan 26 07:55:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: cool find. In-Reply-To: Ian Primus "Re: cool find." (Jan 26, 7:34) References: <7F56A4CD-312A-11D7-959B-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10301261359.ZM4778@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 26, 7:34, Ian Primus wrote: > > On Saturday, January 25, 2003, at 10:26 PM, Jim Strickland wrote: > > > Can you ping your domain name server? > > > Yes, I can. I have also tried using both the DNS addresses provided by > the ISP, as well as the address of my router, which works for all of my > other machines. I can even access web servers if I manually punch in > the IP address. If you show us the contents of /etc/resolv.conf, /etc/nsswitch.conf, /etc/config/static-route.options (if you're going through a gateway like a local router) or if you're using PPP: /etc/ppp.conf (obscure the passwords!), and the output of netstat -ia, netstat -rn, and ifconfig -a, we might be able to figure it out. Is routed or gated running? yp/nis? named? You mentioned "your router". Does your router do DNS? If you have /etc/resolv.conf pointing to the same nameservers as your router is, and you also list the router itself, and the router is doing some form of NAT, chances are that replies to DNS requests from your machine will get lost. What happens if you use nslookup? Can you ping other local hosts by name? Remote hosts? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jan 26 08:16:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: A cool vintage hardware hack. References: <3B67F8EC-30B6-11D7-959B-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> <3E332328.5070906@charter.net> Message-ID: <3E33EF5F.8010809@tiac.net> I've just gotten a fun little hardware project working. And I do beleive that I've got the first HP1000 minicomputer with an 8 gigabyte hard drive too. Often collectors find an interesting CPU, but lack the peripherals and/or software needed to complete a full system. Old hard drives (like the HP7920) are large, take too much power, and eat parts (like air filters that are no longer made) and maintainance. On the other hand, modern 'components' like ATA (thats IDE) disk drives are cheap and quite reliable. So just how hard would it be to hang a modern ATA disk drive off of a classic mini, or micro for that matter? Here's the approach I took: I've just a small 8052 microcontroller board from pjrc.com before, and had one in my parts box. One of the sample programs available from that site shows how to interface a modern ATA drive to the 8255 PIO chip complete with source code. So I used that little board, and added a second 8255 PIO chip. This second 8255 talks to a small handfull of TTL parts, and they in turn talk to a series of level shifter circuits that interface to an HP +16-bit duplex register interface board through a custom cable. With this hardware the HP can read and write 16-bit parallel data to and from the 8052 board. To make things pretty, I drilled out a 8-inch blank pannel with about $50 worth of panel mount LED holders so all the data lines to and from the HP, as well as several status outputs from the 8052 are displayed in true blinkin' lights style. For firmware I started with the ATA (IDE) demo program from pjrc.com, and put a 'wrapper' around that existing code. Now at power-up the 8051 initializes the ATA drive and reads its parameter block into memory. Then the 8052 checks the state of a toggle switch on the disk controllers front pannel. If its in diagnostic mode the stock ATA demo code runs with several new menu options that allow me to debug the 8052 to HP interface protocols. If the toggle switch is in the normal mode the 8052 jumps into a new section of the code that processes commands sent over the HP parallel interface. A very simple disk controller instruction set was developed and implemented in 8052 assembler. For software support on the HP side, I'm not running any existing HP operating system. I am running a custom threaded interpreter on the HP though, so all the disk driver and file system code has to be written from the ground up. This is still a work in progress, but the threaded interpreter currently allows me to add new keywords in either assembly language or high level code so writing the low-level driver keywords was a snap. Yesterday afternoon I successfully read and write data from the HP2113 to and from a 8 gigabyte hard drive rescued from a defunct and undeserving Mac G3. I kinda get a kick out of the Apple logo on the drive thats now bolted to the rack mount pannel deep inside my HP rack. The hardware effort for this IDE drive hack was moderate, the biggest effort was in wiring up the cable harnesses between the 8052 level shifter logic and the pannel mount leds. If I were going to do this project again, I'd forgo the rows of leds and cut the build time by half or more. The next biggest time sink was in building a custom HP interface cable with all the correct (vintage) connectors. There are 34 signal lines each with a ground inside those rather small round cables. Terminating these to the HP 48-pin connector was not too bad, but the other end used a 50-pin centronics style connector, and wiring that was just a little tight. If your at all interested in hanging an ATA drive off of some vintage machine, I highly reccomend you check out the documentation on the pjrc.com web site. There is a newer version of the 8052 board that already has the second 8255 chip installed so that one can be used for the ATA disk interface and the other used to drive whatever logic and level shifters you need to talk to your vintage system. As an alternative, the 8052 circuits could be hand-wired (say, on an s-100 protoboard) and the whole disk controller along with a laptop sized hard drive could be easily built onto the board. Anyone up for a S-100 'hardcard'? Now then, the down-side: The 8052 board I used is only running at 11.059 Mhz, and the 8-bit 8052 has to put the 8255 through several operations to transfer 16-bit data to and from the ATA drive using programmed I/O. So the overall performance is not breathtaking. The newer version of the 8052 board from pjrc.com runs at twice the speed, and the 8052 can then reach tranfer rates (from drive to 8052 memory only) of about 16K bytes per second. So if high performance disk emulation is your bag, your going to need a faster controller, or add a little hardware so the 8052 drives a full 16-bit hardware interface between the ATA drive and your vintage system of choice (assuming your vintage system has 16-bits that is). My current low-level driver keywords are written in threaded code, so they are not going to be nearly as fast as keywords written in assembler, but I'm not really aiming for speed just yet. Depending on your system of interest, it may be possible to write the 8052 code so that it performs a binary-level emulation of some original equipment disk subsystem. This might allow you to bypass the driver development efforts at the cost of more 8052 programming / debugging time to get the emulation 'right'. But becuase I'm using a home rolled operating system (HP-IPL/OS of course), this was not a factor for me. I'm not trying to emulate anything like an original disk controller or drive. I'd guess my program development and debugging time at well under 20 hours. So in a few evenings of spare time, and for a fairly small sum of money, you can have a huge, very reliable hard disk system hanging off of your chosen vintage machine. Ok, now I'm off to write a boot-loader for this crazy thing, and attempt my first ATA cold boot of HP-IPL/OS! From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sun Jan 26 08:22:01 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: A cool vintage hardware hack. Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C994@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Bob writes: > So in a few evenings of spare time, and for a fairly small > sum of money, you can have a huge, very reliable hard disk > system hanging off of your chosen vintage machine. > > Ok, now I'm off to write a boot-loader for this crazy thing, > and attempt my first ATA cold boot of HP-IPL/OS! Way cool! Sounds similar to the project that interfaces an ATA drive to the DEC Qbus! :) Ey Bob... we want pictures! --f From dholland at woh.rr.com Sun Jan 26 09:01:00 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: IRIX distro (was Re: cool find.) In-Reply-To: <20030126053511.14317.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030126053511.14317.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1043594038.25976.1.camel@crusader> If its a Crimson era machine, I've 6.2.(something) images sitting around here on disk. I've not burned them to CD to see if they'll boot yet though.. (Yes, my Crimson project is a really really slow thing.) David On Sun, 2003-01-26 at 00:35, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > > > > I just got myself an Indigo2 R8000. > > > and the cool thing is I actually got a copy of IRIX 6.5 with it, I now > > > have IRIX media Yay! > > > > > > > I wasnt aware Irix CD's were at all rare. > > Me neither. In fact, I could use a set for a friend in Germany. I'll > have to find out precisely what he's after, but I would initially think > it's for something in the Indy/Indigo class (not like a Crimson or Onyx) > and as new as feasible. > > Can anyone help? > > Thanks, > > -ethan > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com From jrice54 at charter.net Sun Jan 26 09:06:41 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:05 2005 Subject: cool find. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E33FB2F.7050901@charter.net> Hi Ian, I'll dig further into my setup and see what might cause that. Ii've had absolutely no problem with my Indy, even go Samba compiled and working. James Ian Primus wrote: > I've tried that, I still can't get anywhere in Netscape, or ping an > address like www.google.com. My /etc/resolv.conf is about the same, > only with my ISP's nameserver. I have also gone through the System > Manager utility several times too. Besides the fact that I can't > resolve anything from the console, when I start netscape, I get a > dialog box that says that hosts are unreachable, and says that if I > must use a non-root name server, I have to set the $SOCKS_NS > environment variable to point at the name server. I have tried setting > this manually from the command line, but to no avail. I'm probably > using the wrong command. My UNIX experience comes from Linux and Mac > OS X, so I haven't really had a whole lot of practice at stuff like this. > > Ian Primus > ian_primus@yahoo.com > > > On Saturday, January 25, 2003, at 06:52 PM, James Rice wrote: > >> You need to edit your resolv.conf file to something like this: >> >> hostresorder local bind >> >> domain charter.net >> >> nameserver 151.164.1.8 >> nameserver 151.164.11.209 >> nameserver 192.168.1.6 >> >> >> >> If you don't have a resolv.conf file then use nedit to creat one. You >> may not need three entries. The first two in mine are my ISP's >> nameserver, the third one is the DNS server on my employers net >> that I am VPN'ed into so I can administer it from home. This is from >> my Indy running 6.5.x >> >> James >> >> Ian Primus wrote: >> >>> >>> On Saturday, January 25, 2003, at 12:01 AM, Benjamin Gardiner wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I just got myself an Indigo2 R8000. >>>> and the cool thing is I actually got a copy of IRIX 6.5 with it, I now >>>> have IRIX media Yay! >>>> >>> >>> Very cool. I have an Indigo2 as well, and I really like it. Mine has >>> Irix 6.5 installed, but I don't have the media. One thing about it >>> though, I have not been able to get it up on the network properly. I >>> have configured it and everything, and told it the DNS address, but >>> it still can't resolve any URL's. I can go to sites by typing in the >>> IP address, however, and I can ping the other machines on the >>> network. I'm sure there is a simple solution, but I haven't found >>> it. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks! >>> >>> Ian Primus >>> ian_primus@yahoo.com >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html >> >> > > -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From dholland at woh.rr.com Sun Jan 26 09:09:01 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: US electrical plugs and receptacles (was RE: cool find.) In-Reply-To: References: <1043534923.31221.10.camel@crusader> <33175.64.169.63.74.1043546379.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <1043594387.25976.7.camel@crusader> (Useful site, btw) The system I've got has a hacked up power cable on it... NEMA stuff on the end that plugs into the Crimson. "Standard" (5-15P style but rated for 20A) on the end that plugs into the wall. (I know it works, but as none of the circuits in my house are dedicated 20A, I don't run it for long) Perhaps I should wire up a "proper" receptacle/plugin when I get our service upgraded, and a new breaker box installed in the spring. David On Sun, 2003-01-26 at 04:28, Tothwolf wrote: > On Sat, 25 Jan 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > > David Holland wrote: > > > > > I think your thinking of a Crimson DeskSide. > > > > > > Its not a power issue... (They just require a dedicated 20A circuit if > > > your going to leave them on for any length of time, and a NEUMA(sp?) > > > plugin, or adaptor.) > > > > If you're talking about a normal US 120V 20A single-phase grounded > > circuit, that would be a NEMA 5-20P plug and a NEMA 5-20R receptacle. > > The 5-20R receptacle can also accept the "normal" 15A 5-15P plug, as > > commonly seen on almost all US consumer electrical products. > > The Crimson and earlier Power Series Deskside systems use a 20A twist lock > connector. The power cable for the systems uses a NEMA L5-20P plug and > NEMA L5-20R receptacle. > > The Hubbell part numbers for these parts are: > insulgrip plug: HBL2311 > insulgrip receptacle: HBL2313 > single flush receptacle (outlet): HBL2310 > > -Toth From dholland at woh.rr.com Sun Jan 26 09:20:01 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: Spectrum Holobyte Tetris In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1043595184.26157.19.camel@crusader> I barely consider myself a old software collector, but here's my humble opinion... (At least for IBM PC oriented stuff) The only software that I know of that is significantly collectible is the software that generally had "interesting" contents. The Ultima series, and most of the Infocom games, are two of the noteworthy ones. (Ex Ultima II for the Apple II currently has a Ebay acution that's up to 61$: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3002207289&category=3561 Now, I don't have a copy of Spectrum Holobyte's Tetris lying around here, but I don't recall hearing any mention of it having noteworthy contents. YMMV/IMHO/Std. Disclaimers Apply/Void where prohibited by law. David PS: Most likely the box does not include all those versions. I've a Bards Tale II box that has screen shots from all versions, but only included the PC version. On Sun, 2003-01-26 at 01:28, Doc Shipley wrote: > I ran across the unopened box today at a Salvation Army thrift. > First, is there any reason to leave it unopened? It's not all that > rare, is it? > Second, this box is marked "IBM PC or Tandy 1000", but on the back it > has features listed as "Macintosh, Macintosh II, Apple IIGS, Amiga, and > Atari ST" only. Does this box include all those versions? > > Doc > From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Jan 26 09:40:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: Inland ProBackup 500 sought (pinouts or software) Message-ID: <020401c2c551$baa20b80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> This is probably OffTopic(tm), but I thought folks here might be able to point me in the right direction. >From a previous life, I have a perfectly fine working UPS. The brand says "Inland - by ABI International". Model is "Probackup5000", part number is 19500. It has a DB9 serial port on the back for interfacing with a host to notify it of loss of ac, impending shutdown, etc. However, I don't have the software (for Windoze) that came with it. I've googled for hours, and can't come up with anything on this exact unit. Would anyone happen to have windows software for it? As a last resort, how standard is the DB9 pinout (IF I can find the pinout, no luck there either)... I'm wondering if I can use just about any UPS software for it. Any advice? THANKS! Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From Peter.Hicks at POGGS.CO.UK Sun Jan 26 10:36:01 2003 From: Peter.Hicks at POGGS.CO.UK (Peter Hicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: RM Nimbus Message-ID: <3E340F12.4080402@POGGS.CO.UK> All, I used to have an AX/2 server at home quite a while ago, and all I have left is the hard drive. I want to get this software off the drive, but I threw out my last MFM controller card ages ago. Does anybody have a copy of the old RM NET LM software that ran (runs?) Z-Net networks of PC186 machines? Even better, does anyone have an ISA MFM controller they'd be willing to swap for money? :) eBay hasn't turned up anything :( Best wishes, Peter. From ejchapel at attbi.com Sun Jan 26 10:57:01 2003 From: ejchapel at attbi.com (Ed Chapel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030126085038.00b0c040@mail.attbi.com> Remember the early Kings Quest series of adventure games? KQ1 has been remade for VGA graphics by a group called Tierra Entertainment. They are doing a terrific job of rebuilding the games. Same great gameplay. The remade version is a free download and works fine in Windows. KQ1 site: http://www.qknowledge.net/royalquest/KQ1index.htm Tierra main site: http://www.qknowledge.net/royalquest/index.html Ed Vancouver, WA From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sun Jan 26 11:34:01 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: New to list References: <036001c2c417$12af85a0$0200a8c0@cosmo> <3E32B318.907FCC4C@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <3E341CB4.363B3474@compsys.to> >Andreas Freiherr wrote: > Hello Stuart, > welcome to the list from me, too. I am also fairly new to the list > (joined only a couple of months ago), and have some similar interests. > Perhaps I should take the chance and put together a few details about me > as well. Jerome Fine replies: Hello Stuart and welcome to the list from the software side. I think there are very few whose interest is almost totally software, but a sprinkle probably does exists. > The 6502 was the first microprocessor that I learned details about, but > the 6809 gave me the actual kick. However, I have never owned one of the > home computers that use any of these (nor the Z80). Instead, I have a > boxfull of chips that were soldered together by two friends, containing > a 6809, and I started making a rackmount 6809 several years ago, but did > not finish this project yet (if you can ever call such a project > "finished" at all). I can't say that I every learned very much about hardware. The software was always my cup. My first system was an IBM 650 which only has assembler language and NO operating system. One user at a time on a system which occupied a whole room. > The PDP-11 infection happened when I did my diploma thesis: a > temperature measurement / acquisition system on RSX-11M. Today, I have a > number of Q-bus and UNIBUS systems in working order at home. I have a number of PDP-11 Qbus systems as well, but the Unibus systems are BOTH too heavy and used to be too expensive. Plus, I focus on RT-11 operating systems, fixing bugs and making enhancements. My current goal is to produce a Y2K/Y10K V5.03 of RT-11 for hobby users. NO ONE else seems interested, so I will just putter along. > For RT-11, I earned a reputation as an "overlay expert" when I managed > to run several applications based on our own GKS (Graphical Kernel > System) library within the address space of 64kB. The overlay tree was > ported from RSX, and the same library was available for TOPS-10, VMS, > several PC (DOS) FORTRAN compilers, and one FORTRAN implementation on > the Atari ST. NOW that would be very interesting. Is there a copy of the source available? Was it ever submitted to DECUS? About 10 years ago, I ran out of address space on one of the applications in an RT-11 environment (obvious on a PDP-11). In order to extend the available memory, we decided to allow one of the cardinal rules to be violated when overlays were being used. Since this was under RT11XM and already 64 KBytes were being used of address space along with virtual arrays of over 2 MBytes, it seemed like the best solution. Yes, for those of you who know RT-11 under RT11XM well - when VIRTUAL arrays are being used, 8 KBytes of the I/O page are lost to the use of the Memory Management Hardware. In any case, the cardinal rule that was violated was the an overlay in the same address space could NOT call an overlay in the same address space or memory region. There is an excellent reason of course - the return address code is not available when that happens - sort of obvious if one thinks about it. Plus it would tend to create thrashing behavior in a low memory overlay situation when the operating system would continually need to read the different overlays back into memory each time. However, when virtual overlays are used, the code always stays in memory and the operating system just maps in (and out) the various portions of the code. One additional rule that also must be imposed when the above cardinal rule is violated is that any arguments passed during a CALL to another overlay should probably be in the root so that the new overlay can "see" them. Fortunately, references to VIRTUAL arrays are always done via the root. In any case, to make a long story short, the overlay handler was easily modified to save the overlay number on the stack and when a different overlay region was used for the new overlay, the overlay handler then automatically restored the old overlay region without the user having to do the extra code that others proposed to handle that situation. Multi-user Basic (MUBASC) does this all the time, but users are not aware. > I have been using VAX/VMS since some V4.n version, around mid-80s, and > OpenVMS/AXP since 1992, when I had the pleasure to run a field test site > for V1.5, clustered with VAX/VMS V5.5. One of my projects was writing a > print symbiont (using the SMB$ interface to the queue manager, not PSM$ > routines). I used a VAX/VMS system in the early 1990s and discovered all of the wonderful enhancements. Ever since I have attempted to figure out how to port some of them back down to RT-11. One such as the Logical Name List capability is close to completion as a Path Handler in RT-11. Also similar to the PATH NAME is DOS. In any case, welcome to the classiccmp list. There are few other software addicts such as myself. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jan 26 12:02:05 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: Mac SE up for grabs Message-ID: I have not contacted this person so I don't know where it is. As always, respond to them if interested. Reply-to: HrrssA@aol.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 11:39:49 EST From: HrrssA@aol.com Subject: donate I have a MAC SE ala 1986. Printer. Carrying case. Lots of SW. Still purrs. Any interest contact Andy Harriss at Hrrssa@aol.com. Thank you -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sun Jan 26 12:06:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: Apple C3 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 25 Jan 2003, Paul Mika wrote: > The 3c was finally scrapped for an IBM type machine. Actually the name > of the machine was the Apple III The c added later for some reason. > Looked like a big Apple II. Very heavy and clumsy. No mouse. Small > clicky keyboard. Small green mono monitor. The monitor had motors to > position with a button. Sort of like modern rear view mirrors. I am having trouble trying to figure out what you're referring to. The Apple III followed-up the Apple ][+ in 1981. I've never heard of a IIIc model. I've never heard of it being called the 3C (even as an internal project codename; in fact it was codenamed "Sara" according to the book _Apple Confidential_). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sun Jan 26 12:11:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: Slightly OT? Squished Boxes.. In-Reply-To: <1043534816.31221.7.camel@crusader> Message-ID: On 25 Jan 2003, David Holland wrote: > Any body ever try to "restore" old software/computer boxes? Got any > tips? It's a losing battle unles you have them properly stored on a bookshelf where they have no external forces pushing at their various sides (and in very wrong angles). To attempt to rehabilitate them, you must bend the box parts opposite the way they are currently mishapen to get them to be right again. But for the most part there is no cure (only prevention == proper storage). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ceby2 at csc.com Sun Jan 26 12:15:01 2003 From: ceby2 at csc.com (Colin Eby) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: ibm sys/36 5360 basic needed Message-ID: Bill -- I have most of the System/36 stuff... except the languages, sigh. You wouldn't happen to have any of the SSP on 5.25" would you. I have a 5363 I've never successfully IPL'd . And while I'm turning your request for assistance on its head... you wouldn't happen to want a 5360 would you? I have one in need of a good home. I don't even have a garage so I'm paying storage for the beast (2 tape drives, 2 printers, expanded main cabinet with additional disk platters and the magazine version of the 8" floppy). Maybe I can be more helpful if you have other S/36 needs in future. I have a lot of the books and even a few already scanned to PDF. While I'm begging, I don't suppose anyone out there has the Office suite for S/36, or any interesting applications? Or maybe someone wants to be free of a 5364 (a little easier on the electric bills than the 63, 62 or 60). My systems only have SSP, and I have a perverse desire to get some use out of them. -Colin ceby2@csc.com Senior Consultant, National Performance Engineeering Practice CSC Consulting. From Peter.Hicks at POGGS.CO.UK Sun Jan 26 12:17:48 2003 From: Peter.Hicks at POGGS.CO.UK (Peter Hicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: RM Nimbus In-Reply-To: <003801c2c566$117ac5f0$0a00a8c0@upstairs> References: <3E340F12.4080402@POGGS.CO.UK> <003801c2c566$117ac5f0$0a00a8c0@upstairs> Message-ID: <3E3426F2.6050306@POGGS.CO.UK> Brent, The drive I have is a Mitsubishi MR535-MOD, which sucks 4A at 12V, and 0.8A at 5V. It is circa-1990, and has a 34-way and 20-way PCB connector thing (sorry, I've forgotten the correct term!) at the end of the PCB. I guess I need either an 8-bit or 16-bit ISA card - I'll end up putting it (temporarily) in a P166 I have here, to copy the data off. I'd also need cables, as those were thrown out with the MFM card! If you've got one suitable you're willing to sell, mail me off list and we'll discuss :) Best wishes, Peter. Brent (Quad A) wrote: >I have several. Do you have a specific model in mind. I have a few of the >old winchester cards. I also have some other not-so-easily identifiable >cards. > >Brent Atkerson/Quad "A" Enterprises >Professional PC Repair and Networking solutions >www.quadaenterprises.com >Registered Linux User #269466 http://counter.li.org > > > >Peter Hicks wrote: > > >>All, >> >>I used to have an AX/2 server at home quite a while ago, and all I >>have left is the hard drive. I want to get this software off the >>drive, but I threw out my last MFM controller card ages ago. >> >>Does anybody have a copy of the old RM NET LM software that ran >>(runs?) Z-Net networks of PC186 machines? Even better, does anyone >>have an ISA MFM controller they'd be willing to swap for money? :) >>eBay hasn't turned up anything :( >> >>Best wishes, >> >> >>Peter. >> >> > > > From foo at siconic.com Sun Jan 26 12:23:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: Slightly OT? Squished Boxes.. In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030125220807.01fa0130@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 25 Jan 2003, Charles E. Fox wrote: > I was recently given a few cubic feet of old Amiga games in > similar condition. About the only solution I could think of was > judicious use of staples. AAAGGGHH!!! You destroy artifacts this way. I never use any tape, staples etc. to mend a box. If a tear is there, I leave it. In fact, I remove any tape that was applied to a box because over time, that tape will dry out, fade and crumble away causing further damage to the original surface and artwork of the box. I only occasionally use glue to mend the seam of the box where it has separated because the original glue has broken down. I view every box of software I have as an artifact in and of itself. As such, it should be molested as little as possible, and preserved or restored in a safe manner. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sun Jan 26 12:30:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: A cool vintage hardware hack. In-Reply-To: <3E33EF5F.8010809@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Jan 2003, Bob Shannon wrote: > I've just gotten a fun little hardware project working. > > And I do beleive that I've got the first HP1000 minicomputer with an 8 > gigabyte hard drive too. <...> Bob, This is simply AWESOME! I hope you can exhibit this and give a talk about it at the next VCF East. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ceby2 at csc.com Sun Jan 26 12:34:00 2003 From: ceby2 at csc.com (Colin Eby) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: System/36 whining and begging... Message-ID: Folks -- Thought I'd continue my unreasonable begging from the previous note back to Bill. I'd like to take on a little project of creating archival images of S/36 media. I've made a duplicate of most of what I own on fresher 8" stock. But I don't think that's a long term strategy for avoiding the inevitable ravages of media corruption. What I had in mind was something like a 'dd' dump of each disk that could be reloaded to fresh 8" media when required. I haven't given this too much thought so bear with me.... I'm working on a list of questions and puzzles to accomplish this goal.The first obvious problem is media to hardware integration. If memory serves, I read somewhere that IBM used an oddball disk format (Sellam, you might know this). 8" Shuggart drives come on the market from time to time but, would they, using low level drivers, be able to make a physical block by block copy of IBM S/36 disk data? The second problem is hardware to hardware integration. Has anyone had luck integrating a 8" drive with a more recent machine? And what are the alternatives? I presume this could be done on DEC hardware and then sent to any open platform over a network connection. Has anyone gotten an 8" floppy operating under an Intel based Linux host. That would seem the obvious media transfer station because of the wide range of hardware compatibility. Once these first two steps are done, any basic disk utility ought to make short work of creating binary dumps. An alternative approach might be to copy the disks directly on the System/36 host using platform native tools then sending the file across some form of network connection. The problem is I haven't a clue how that would need to be done. I've never read any low level API for S/36 as a platform. IBM seems to have kept anything harware layer proprietary. Any and all thoughts welcome. Thanks, -Colin ceby2@csc.com Senior Consultant, National Performance Engineeering Practice CSC Consulting. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 26 13:16:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: Early CD-ROM drives (was Re: Free stuff) In-Reply-To: <33158.64.169.63.74.1043545907.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Jan 25, 3 05:51:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1095 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030126/7f1163b6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 26 13:18:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: RM Nimbus In-Reply-To: <3E340F12.4080402@POGGS.CO.UK> from "Peter Hicks" at Jan 26, 3 04:38:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1178 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030126/8e835b61/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 26 13:19:27 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: A cool vintage hardware hack. In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C994@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Jan 26, 3 03:25:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 523 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030126/a805bbdf/attachment.ksh From acme at ao.net Sun Jan 26 13:22:00 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: Possibly OT: Z80/CP/M programming Message-ID: <200301261926.OAA29007@eola.ao.net> Greetings -- I have a small program (about 3K lines of C) which I want to rewrite in Z80 assembly language in order to reduce the code size. The target system is a Kaypro 10, 64KB RAM, CP/M 2.2. In its C incarnation, the program *will* run but frequently runs out of system memory. The program is designed around multiple dynamically allocated linked lists which expand and contract as the (interactive) program is used. I've done little Z80 assembly programming (a number of small utilities, all of which were < 500 lines of code) but I've already written and tested *almost* all the low-level functions (console, file, & printer i/o) which the program requires. Except . . . how do I dynamically allocate memory? I don't see a CP/M function call to allocate or free memory. Does such a function exist, and if so, what are the details? Lacking such a CP/M function, how do I write replacements for malloc() and free()? It has to be possible or the calls would not exist in the library of the compiler I used to build the C program. TIA for any hints -- Glen 0/0 From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sun Jan 26 13:30:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: A cool vintage hardware hack. Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C996@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > > Ey Bob... we want pictures! > > Forget the pictures, we want schematics and source code :-) No... drool first, work later... --f :) From classiccmp at crash.com Sun Jan 26 13:33:00 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steve Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: Ultrix v4.3 install on mVaxII Message-ID: <200301261936.h0QJaWg20692@io.crash.com> > I own two mVax, a mVax3100 and an mVaxII, [...] > Is there an alternative way to install it on the mVaxII ? You can setup an Ultrix machine with suitable disk space to be a Remote Installation Server (RIS), or is it referred to as the Remote Installation Service? Well anyway, there's a ton of steps in the Ultrix admin guides explaining how to set the box up as a bootp/tftp server, how to set up a filesystem with the Ultrix software "sets," et cetera. I don't think I have that binder around, but perhaps Google can help... This link will at least explain what RIS is and how it works, though the whole document is focused on setting up RIS on a box running Digital Unix: http://www.tru64unix.compaq.com/docs/base_doc/DOCUMENTATION/HTML/AA-PS3LE-TE_html/sharing3.html Sorry, in the time I've got I don't see any links for the actual Ultrix OS installation guide. But that's what would walk you through setting up an RIS server -- hopefully that tip will get you a little closer. Good luck, --Steve. From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sun Jan 26 13:38:01 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: Ultrix v4.3 install on mVaxII Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C997@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Short answer (top-posted, sorry): i have a kit and a readme somewhere which allowes net.boot and net.install of Ultrix off any machine that runs Unix. I even ported it to NT :) (just for phun, obviously). Basically, you need: - 200M disk space - packet filter in kernel - my new MOP Server That'll boot anything, including the Ultrix install set. Contact me offlist for more info. --fred > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Jones [mailto:classiccmp@crash.com] > Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 8:38 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Ultrix v4.3 install on mVaxII > > > > I own two mVax, a mVax3100 and an mVaxII, [...] > > Is there an alternative way to install it on the mVaxII ? > > You can setup an Ultrix machine with suitable disk space to be > a Remote Installation Server (RIS), or is it referred to as the > Remote Installation Service? Well anyway, there's a ton of steps > in the Ultrix admin guides explaining how to set the box up as a > bootp/tftp server, how to set up a filesystem with the Ultrix > software "sets," et cetera. I don't think I have that binder > around, but perhaps Google can help... > > This link will at least explain what RIS is and how it works, > though the whole document is focused on setting up RIS on a box > running Digital Unix: > > http://www.tru64unix.compaq.com/docs/base_doc/DOCUMENTATION/HT ML/AA-PS3LE-TE_html/sharing3.html Sorry, in the time I've got I don't see any links for the actual Ultrix OS installation guide. But that's what would walk you through setting up an RIS server -- hopefully that tip will get you a little closer. Good luck, --Steve. From spc at conman.org Sun Jan 26 14:08:00 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: Possibly OT: Z80/CP/M programming In-Reply-To: <200301261926.OAA29007@eola.ao.net> from "acme@ao.net" at Jan 26, 2003 02:26:01 PM Message-ID: <200301262011.PAA04582@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great acme@ao.net once stated: > > I've done little Z80 assembly programming (a number of small utilities, all of > which were < 500 lines of code) but I've already written and tested *almost* > all the low-level functions (console, file, & printer i/o) which the program > requires. Except . . . how do I dynamically allocate memory? I don't see a > CP/M function call to allocate or free memory. Does such a function exist, > and if so, what are the details? > > Lacking such a CP/M function, how do I write replacements for malloc() and > free()? It has to be possible or the calls would not exist in the library of > the compiler I used to build the C program. Under CP/M it's the responsibility of the program to manage memory, not CP/M; the C library you are using contains the code required to handle memory management. Unless you are doing this just for the intellectual exercise, it is counter productive to rewrite a program from C to assembly just to save memory [1] until you figure out *why* the program is running out of memory. Is the data set too large to fit? If so, by how much? If it's only a few kilobytes then see if you can't rework the code to be smaller. If you are talking a few dozen kilobytes then perhaps a rethinking of how the program works is in order. Or perhaps the program is holding onto data longer than it really needs, in which case you'll need to rework how the program works. Just changing the program to Assembly may not help you. -spc (Been there, done that, have the unfinished programs ... ) [1] Usually it's speed and even then, you typically don't resort to Assembly until you've already made algorithmic changes (for example, switching from a Bubble Sort to Quick Sort) where you get the best gains in speed. Only then do you switch to Assembly, and only after you figure out which routines are sucking up the CPU and changing only those routines to Assembly. From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Jan 26 14:46:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: A cool vintage hardware hack. In-Reply-To: <3E33EF5F.8010809@tiac.net> References: <3B67F8EC-30B6-11D7-959B-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> <3E332328.5070906@charter.net> <3E33EF5F.8010809@tiac.net> Message-ID: <33108.64.169.63.74.1043614167.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Bob Shannon wrote: > And I do beleive that I've got the first HP1000 minicomputer with an 8 > gigabyte hard drive too. First on an E-series maybe, but HP sold SCSI interface cards for the A-series machines, and I've seen a reference to a large SCSI RAID box being used on one of those. But for those of us that use the earlier 1000/2100 machines, your approach is interesting. Since I want to run HP 2000 Access TSB, I need a disk system that emulates 7905, 7906, or 7920 drives on a 13037 disk controller attached via a 13175 host adapter. Perhaps your design would make a good starting point. From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Jan 26 14:57:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: System/36 whining and begging... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33149.64.169.63.74.1043614850.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Has anyone gotten an 8" > floppy operating under an Intel based Linux host. Yes. And some software to read 8" disks and save them as DMK-format images may be found at: http://sourceforge.net/projects/dmklib/ I haven't yet written code to drive DMK images back to disk, but I think there's already software that can do it. For more information see: http://www.tim-mann.org/trs80resources.html Note that many PCs have floppy controllers that can't read and write single density (FM) disks. If you have such a PC, you might need to buy a different controller, such as a Catweasel: http://www.softhut.com/cgi-bin/test/Web_store/web_store.cgi?page=catalog/hardware/accelerators/catweaselpci.html I suspect (but am far from certain) that System/36 disks are probably double density (MFM), which PCs should have no trouble with. To hook up the 8-inch drive to the PC, you'll need an adapter such as John Wilson's FDADAP: http://www.dbit.com/fdadap.html From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Jan 26 15:08:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: A cool vintage hardware hack. References: <3B67F8EC-30B6-11D7-959B-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> <3E332328.5070906@charter.net> <3E33EF5F.8010809@tiac.net> <33108.64.169.63.74.1043614167.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <034601c2c57f$772ab040$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Eric wrote... > But for those of us that use the earlier 1000/2100 machines, your > approach is interesting. Since I want to run HP 2000 Access TSB, I > need a disk system that emulates 7905, 7906, or 7920 drives on a 13037 > disk controller attached via a 13175 host adapter. Perhaps your design > would make a good starting point. 7900A drives work as well for TSB, not just the 7905/6/20 drives. The 7900A drives do not require the 13037 controller or subsystem, they just require a 13210 disc interface pca in the cpu. Totally different interface between 7900, to 7905/06/20. Also, be careful on the 7906, as only the A-D models will work with TSB. The H model, which is HP-IB, will not (at least via a direct HP-IB PCA card - if the H model 7906 drive is hooked up to a 13037 subsystem that supports HP-IB as well {not many 13037 subsystems had the HP-IB option} then it MAY work on TSB if the HP-IB portion of the 13037 is "hidden"). I'll have to try that someday. Also, the host adapter and the disc controller subsystem box are both called 13037. Never heard of a 13175? Am I missing something? Also, check out the 7900/7905/7906/7920 drive emulator at arraid.com (AEM box I think). I hope to be receiving one of those soon. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From Peter.Hicks at POGGS.CO.UK Sun Jan 26 15:12:01 2003 From: Peter.Hicks at POGGS.CO.UK (Peter Hicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: RM Nimbus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E344FCF.1020407@POGGS.CO.UK> Tony Duell wrote: >>I used to have an AX/2 server at home quite a while ago, and all I have left is the hard drive. I want to get this software off the drive, but >>I threw out my last MFM controller card ages ago. >> >> >I'll not flame you -- this time -- for refering to a interface by the data encoding system it uses. Especially as, in this case, both are relevant. > I apologise - it has been many years since I even said the letters "MFM", and I can't find anybody amongst my circle of friends who actually knows what MFM/RLL/ST506/ST412 means. Going back to the website (http://www.mfarris.com/hard/Mitsubishi.html) I found, the MR535R is a 65Mb RLL ST506 drive, not MFM. I was wrong, but it was early this morning when I found the URL. >The problem (for you) with the ST506/ST412 interface is that the data encoding is handled by the controller, not by the drive. And not everybody did it the same way. OK, if you're _sure_ the original used MFM encoding rather than RLL, it's going to simplify things a bit, but it's still not certain that any old controller will be able to make sense of the data on your drive. > > I recall the problem. This takes me back a few years... the problem being that Research Machines weren't renowned for using standard off-the-shelf hardware, such as monitor connections and Ethernet (the network I used ran on Z-Net). However, I should have a PC-186 winging its way to me "soon", and one of the tricks I'll try is popping the 60Mb (I nearly wrote Gb) drive in the box and seeing if I can siphon off any data. >Do you have any idea what the original controller was? > I don't at the moment - the only hope I think I have is to either e-mail Research Machines and hope I get a suitably positive response, or hope luck is on my side. Am I likely to cause permanent damage to the drive if I use the wrong encoding? >I have a pile of ST506/ST412 PC hard drive controllers and could certainly spare one if you think it'll be any use. > > I've had a reply from Brent Atkerson in the US, who has a ST506 controller - however since you're in the UK, it may be much cheaper and easier to try a controller from you first. Drop me a mail off-list, name your price and we'll take it from there... but only if you have cables! :) Best wishes, Peter. From kees.stravers at iae.nl Sun Jan 26 15:14:00 2003 From: kees.stravers at iae.nl (Kees Stravers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: Can a TU81+ be connected to a TU80 controller? Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20030126210452.025e8350@pop.iae.nl> I have a VAX 11/750 machine with a TU80 controller in it. I also have a TU81+ tape drive. I know the TU81+ is supposed to be connected to a KLESI controller. But can a TU81+ be connected to the TU80 controller (only doing 1600 then of course)? And if not, does anyone have a Unibus KLESI for sale? Kees. -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands http://www.vaxarchive.org/ http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/ From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sun Jan 26 15:20:00 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: RM Nimbus References: <3E344FCF.1020407@POGGS.CO.UK> Message-ID: <3E3451F7.8040307@gifford.co.uk> Peter Hicks wrote: > I've had a reply from Brent Atkerson in the US, who has a ST506 > controller - however since you're in the UK, it may be much cheaper and > easier to try a controller from you first. I may have an ST-506 controller, too. In Bristol. > Drop me a mail off-list, name your price and we'll take it from there... > but only if you have cables! :) I definately have cables. Will e-mail off-list as requested. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jan 26 15:53:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: Inland ProBackup 500 sought (pinouts or software) In-Reply-To: "Jay West" "Inland ProBackup 500 sought (pinouts or software)" (Jan 26, 9:43) References: <020401c2c551$baa20b80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <10301262032.ZM5096@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 26, 9:43, Jay West wrote: > >From a previous life, I have a perfectly fine working UPS. The brand says > "Inland - by ABI International". Model is "Probackup5000", part number is > 19500. It has a DB9 serial port on the back for interfacing with a host to > notify it of loss of ac, impending shutdown, etc. However, I don't have the > software (for Windoze) that came with it. > > I've googled for hours, and can't come up with anything on this exact unit. > Would anyone happen to have windows software for it? As a last resort, how > standard is the DB9 pinout (IF I can find the pinout, no luck there > either)... I'm wondering if I can use just about any UPS software for it. Unlikely. However, it might be a standard serial port that you can hook a terminal to, and see what happens. Other than that, I'd suggest a look at the Network UPS Tools pages at http://www.exploits.org/nut/ I know it's not Windows (though there's a client called WinNUT), but it will at least give you an idea what to try and what to expect. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Jan 26 16:30:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: Can a TU81+ be connected to a TU80 controller? In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20030126210452.025e8350@pop.iae.nl> References: <1.5.4.32.20030126210452.025e8350@pop.iae.nl> Message-ID: <33376.64.169.63.74.1043620385.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I have a VAX 11/750 machine with a TU80 controller in it. I also have a > TU81+ tape drive. I know the TU81+ is supposed to be connected to a > KLESI controller. But can a TU81+ be connected to the TU80 controller > (only doing 1600 then of course)? No. You need a KLESI. From allain at panix.com Sun Jan 26 16:32:00 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: RM Nimbus References: <3E344FCF.1020407@POGGS.CO.UK> Message-ID: <004c01c2c58b$1a85d660$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > I apologise - it has been many years since I even said the letters > "MFM", and I can't find anybody amongst my circle of friends who > actually knows what MFM/RLL/ST506/ST412 means. Interesting problem. from a web search: http://www.redhill.net.au/d-a.html title: "Drives we used to love and hate" Modified Frequency Modulation Run Length Limited Seagate ?Technology? 506: 5MB/ 412: 10MB nice page BTW John A. From francois at auradon.com Sun Jan 26 18:34:09 2003 From: francois at auradon.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: OT: Location Message-ID: <004401c2c49e$e157cde0$0264640a@auradon.com> Hi all, Sorry for the OT post but I think it is worth noting since it relates to the list. I seen a few post where people add their location after their name in the signature, I think this is way cool and give a perspective on the globalization of the list. I would like to strongly encourage everybody on theis list to do the same and add your location. Thank you for your attention Francois Minnesota USA From spedraja at mail.ono.es Sun Jan 26 18:36:36 2003 From: spedraja at mail.ono.es (SPC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: Data processing equip for sale References: <20030124202512.12318.qmail@web40016.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001501c2c41d$8052c940$0402a8c0@cavorita.net> Hello. Well, I should need to know how much money do you have in mind for the equipment, and where are you located. I must clear that I am interested mostly in equipment for free (cause of the costs involved in shipment usually), but I should like to know your proposition. Thanks and Greetings Sergio ----- Original Message ----- From: Rubens DeCarvalho To: decarvalho70@yahoo.com Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 9:25 PM Subject: Data processing equip for sale Hello, I found your email on the web regarding this type of equipment. I have the following equipment available for sale. Equipment was recently deinstalled. It is OOS, working. Let me know your interest. IBM 3803 - Series 26371 IBM 3420 - Series 7746995 IBM 3420 - Series 7747435 IBM ES9000/3490-E - Series PE 000730 CPM 1455 - 02 CPM 1416 - 02 CPM 1416 - 02 CPM 1255 - 02 CPM DKU 2051U - 14 FUJITSU SU200 - 8820336 Thank you, Rubens DeCarvalho. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030126/488edb58/attachment.html From curt at atarimuseum.com Sun Jan 26 18:38:06 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: Jeff Worley... References: Message-ID: <004501c2c4da$83121470$0b01010a@cvendel> Some of you may remember that almost a year ago I posted a message looking for Jeff Worley. I had made a purchase with him for an ATR8500 and associated hardware, software and manuals. I had asked the group for some help finding him as for many months afterwards he was nowhere to be found and he no longer was responding to any emails. Several people helped me out with his telco# and directly contacting him and after a few phone calls his number was then disconnected. I had basically given up all hope of either seeing my equipment or the several hundred dollars sent to him. Well, out of the blue several days ago Jeff contacted me and after finding out he went through some hardship and some personal issues he had not forgotten the deal and obligation to me and after requesting my address he sent all of the equipment, manuals etc as promised via Fedex and it arrived several hours ago in perfect condition. I just thought everyone should know that Jeff Worley is most certainly ok in my book, even though I was delayed a year in receiving my equipment, Jeff still had the conscience and good intentions to want to square up on a deal which seemed all but lost to me a long time ago. Curt From evan at flextech.net Sun Jan 26 18:39:37 2003 From: evan at flextech.net (Evan R. Pauley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: Bernoulli In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Seth/all, Actually, he could be looking at a 20MB drive. Iomega produced a dual 20MB box called the Bernoulli Box II, which had two 5-1/4" 20 meg drives side by side. I believe the 20Z that Kevin's talking about could have used the old 8" drive cartridges, which Iomega also made about 1987 or so to replace the original Bernoulli 10MB unit. The 20Z had two 8" drives arranged vertically, if memory serves. The SCSI interface was either bootable (a 50B card, I believe) or non-bootable (a 50 card). I think I still have the manuals and driver disks as well, on 5-1/4" floppies ONLY. If you need them, let me know ASAP and I'll dig through the archives. I'm certain I still have a couple of the interface cards as well. I also still have the old BBII, with manuals and interface card. I think I also have an internal 150MB IDE (which reads the 90MB cartridges) and I'm sitting here looking at four of the 5-1/4" 20MB packs and one of the 150's on my shelf. Last I tried them (about five years ago), they both still worked fine. BTW -- my first post. Been lurking for a few weeks...good stuff here! Cheers, Evan Pauley -----Original Message----- From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Seth Lewin Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 8:39 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Bernoulli > Message: 16 > Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 11:05:11 -0700 > From: Kevin Handy > To: cctalk > Subject: Bernoulli Dual 20Z > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > I found a Bernoulli Dual 20Z drive in a thrift shop. > Does anyone know anything about it? > > It has a SCSI interface on it, but I don't even know > what capacity of disks it can handle, and where can > I find software to drive it. > > They has some "90" disks there too, which do fit > into the drive, but I'd like more info on it than that The one Bernoulli I once owned used 90mb cartridges, which is probably what you're looking at, Kevin. Bernoullis were more or less predecessors of Zip drives, technologically speaking. I may have a Mac SCSI driver around here somewhere for these things or you might try the Iomega website. SML From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Jan 26 18:41:20 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: RM Nimbus In-Reply-To: <3E340F12.4080402@POGGS.CO.UK> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Peter Hicks > Sent: 26 January 2003 16:39 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org; cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: RM Nimbus > > I used to have an AX/2 server at home quite a while ago, and all I have > left is the hard drive. I want to get this software off the drive, but > I threw out my last MFM controller card ages ago. > > Does anybody have a copy of the old RM NET LM software that ran (runs?) > Z-Net networks of PC186 machines? Even better, does anyone have an ISA > MFM controller they'd be willing to swap for money? :) eBay hasn't > turned up anything :( Peter, I've got an AX/2 here in the museum that powers on but I haven't got as far as connecting a monitor to it yet - I've only had it a couple of years :) I've also got a few PC1s that have HDs in them so said software might be installed, though last time I tested them I didn't have a suitable monitor. Can you remember what spec the monitors used? cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From brent at quadaenterprises.com Sun Jan 26 18:42:50 2003 From: brent at quadaenterprises.com (Brent (Quad A)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: RM Nimbus References: <3E340F12.4080402@POGGS.CO.UK> Message-ID: <003801c2c566$117ac5f0$0a00a8c0@upstairs> I have several. Do you have a specific model in mind. I have a few of the old winchester cards. I also have some other not-so-easily identifiable cards. Brent Atkerson/Quad "A" Enterprises Professional PC Repair and Networking solutions www.quadaenterprises.com Registered Linux User #269466 http://counter.li.org Peter Hicks wrote: > All, > > I used to have an AX/2 server at home quite a while ago, and all I > have left is the hard drive. I want to get this software off the > drive, but I threw out my last MFM controller card ages ago. > > Does anybody have a copy of the old RM NET LM software that ran > (runs?) Z-Net networks of PC186 machines? Even better, does anyone > have an ISA MFM controller they'd be willing to swap for money? :) > eBay hasn't turned up anything :( > > Best wishes, > > > Peter. From brent at quadaenterprises.com Sun Jan 26 18:45:01 2003 From: brent at quadaenterprises.com (Brent (Quad A)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: RM Nimbus References: <3E340F12.4080402@POGGS.CO.UK> Message-ID: <004401c2c566$4dea9330$0a00a8c0@upstairs> I have several. Do you have a specific model in mind. I have a few of the old winchester cards. I also have some other not-so-easily identifiable cards. Brent Atkerson/Quad "A" Enterprises Professional PC Repair and Networking solutions www.quadaenterprises.com Registered Linux User #269466 http://counter.li.org Peter Hicks wrote: > All, > > I used to have an AX/2 server at home quite a while ago, and all I > have left is the hard drive. I want to get this software off the > drive, but I threw out my last MFM controller card ages ago. > > Does anybody have a copy of the old RM NET LM software that ran > (runs?) Z-Net networks of PC186 machines? Even better, does anyone > have an ISA MFM controller they'd be willing to swap for money? :) > eBay hasn't turned up anything :( > > Best wishes, > > > Peter. From freddy at kotelna.sk Sun Jan 26 18:46:36 2003 From: freddy at kotelna.sk (Adrien Farkas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: wanted: Multia/UDB spare parts Message-ID: <20030126215358.GA7535@kotol.kotelna.sk> hey folks, I've just missed a great ebay auction for Multia spare parts, does anyone have some multia accessories they might sell/trade? I'm looking mainly for floppy drive with cable and pci riser card with 2.5" connection (and external scsi cable). My multia has also burned videocard, so eventually a whole multia box (with the above included) might be of use as well. If your box doesn't have battery or burned the chip on the botton (common problem, afaik), this doesn't really matter, I'm able to fix this. Thanks in advance, -- freddy ...for more info 'finger freddy@kotol.kotelna.sk' From shawnmhoffman at yahoo.com Sun Jan 26 18:48:04 2003 From: shawnmhoffman at yahoo.com (Shawn H.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: Little old Apple computer In-Reply-To: <3E344FCF.1020407@POGGS.CO.UK> Message-ID: <20030126230240.43886.qmail@web12306.mail.yahoo.com> Hello, Hey, my aunt and uncle were given a little old apple computer and I don't think they use it at all. I don't know what model it is, but I know it's ancient. It has a little tiny monitor with a green display. I think the brains of the computer are inside the keyboard........like the old Commadore 64s. The disk drive might be inside the keyboard as well. I only looked at it once and I wasn't really trying to find out what kind of computer it was so I don't know much about it yet. If this computer sounds like it might be worth something to someone out there, let me know and I can find out more about it. My aunt and uncle are having kind of hard times because my uncle has been taken into the army and I'm quite sure they would be glad to sell the computer to someone if it's worth something. ~Shawn --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030126/08ad1ca3/attachment.html From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Jan 26 18:49:28 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: Odd posting order on cctech In-Reply-To: <20030126230240.43886.qmail@web12306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi folks, Just a small puzzling question I've got - why is my mail delivery of classiccmp so unpredictable and out of order? I'm not on the digest list so I'd assume I'd be getting mails as and when they're sent to everyone else; as it is I get them later rather than sooner, and not in the order I'd expect them in....I'm on DSL so it's not like I'm waiting for deliveries. It's not a UK thing either since Tony, John and Peter all get their mails hours before I do, and I don't believe it's a Demon thing either since none of my other mails are affected. Anyone else get the same problem? -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 26 18:50:54 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: RM Nimbus In-Reply-To: <3E344FCF.1020407@POGGS.CO.UK> from "Peter Hicks" at Jan 26, 3 09:14:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2347 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030126/b4b30aa7/attachment.ksh From dholland at woh.rr.com Sun Jan 26 18:53:00 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: Slightly OT? Squished Boxes.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1043626966.30969.24.camel@crusader> Yeah, I know about the tape thing... It turns yellow after a few years.. I'll have to do the glue thing... A couple of my Infocom boxes have came "deglued" at the top/bottom. I mentioned it to the spouse, and her thought was perhaps a little steam and a judicious use of a iron. I hadn't quite decided on that one.. perhaps I'll test on a less "collectable" box. ("4D Boxing" springs to mind :-) ) David On Sun, 2003-01-26 at 13:23, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sat, 25 Jan 2003, Charles E. Fox wrote: > > > I was recently given a few cubic feet of old Amiga games in > > similar condition. About the only solution I could think of was > > judicious use of staples. > > AAAGGGHH!!! You destroy artifacts this way. I never use any tape, > staples etc. to mend a box. If a tear is there, I leave it. In fact, I > remove any tape that was applied to a box because over time, that tape > will dry out, fade and crumble away causing further damage to the original > surface and artwork of the box. I only occasionally use glue to mend the > seam of the box where it has separated because the original glue has > broken down. > > I view every box of software I have as an artifact in and of itself. As > such, it should be molested as little as possible, and preserved or > restored in a safe manner. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > From ggs at shiresoft.com Sun Jan 26 19:11:03 2003 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: Odd posting order on cctech In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1043629910.2175.198.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> On Sun, 2003-01-26 at 15:17, Witchy wrote: > Hi folks, > > Just a small puzzling question I've got - why is my mail delivery of > classiccmp so unpredictable and out of order? I'm not on the digest list so > I'd assume I'd be getting mails as and when they're sent to everyone else; > as it is I get them later rather than sooner, and not in the order I'd > expect them in....I'm on DSL so it's not like I'm waiting for deliveries. > It's not a UK thing either since Tony, John and Peter all get their mails > hours before I do, and I don't believe it's a Demon thing either since none > of my other mails are affected. > > Anyone else get the same problem? > Yes and I'm here in San Jose, California. Messages dribble in one or two at a time and then I'll get 50-100 all at once from the day before. -- TTFN - Guy From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sun Jan 26 19:17:00 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: Little old Apple computer In-Reply-To: <20030126230240.43886.qmail@web12306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9444A2A0-3195-11D7-96E2-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Sounds like an Apple IIc. Here is a link that will give you some more information about it - http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=69 I don't really know what it would be worth, but there were a lot of them made, and they are really fun computers to play with. With the little 9" green monochrome monitor that was meant to go with it, and it's internal 5 1/4 floppy drive, it's a very small Apple IIe-like computer. It even has built in 80 column support, and there is a switch to toggle the keyboard layout (Dvorak or QWERTY). The main "problem" with these machines is that they require a power adapter brick that frequently gets separated from the computer. If you have the complete system (computer, monitor, power adapter, and possibly a second floppy), it is still a very useful system - I know of one guy that still uses his regularly for word processing. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Sunday, January 26, 2003, at 06:02 PM, Shawn H. wrote: > Hello, > > Hey, my aunt and uncle were given a little old apple computer and I > don't think they use it at all.? I don't know what model it is, but I > know it's ancient.? It has a little tiny monitor with a green > display.? I think the?brains of the computer?are inside the > keyboard........like the old Commadore 64s.? The disk drive might be > inside the keyboard as well.? I only looked at it once and I wasn't > really trying to find out what kind of computer it was so I don't know > much about it yet. > > If this computer sounds like it might be worth something to someone > out there, let me know and I can find out more about it.? My aunt and > uncle are having kind of hard times because my uncle has been taken > into the army and I'm quite sure they would be glad to sell the > computer to someone if it's worth something. > > ~Shawn > > > > > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 2062 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030126/416a894b/attachment.bin From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sun Jan 26 19:21:01 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:06 2005 Subject: Little old Apple computer In-Reply-To: <20030126230240.43886.qmail@web12306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Jan 2003, Shawn H. wrote: > Hey, my aunt and uncle were given a little old apple computer and I > don't think they use it at all. I don't know what model it is, but I > know it's ancient. It has a little tiny monitor with a green display. > I think the brains of the computer are inside the keyboard........like > the old Commadore 64s. The disk drive might be inside the keyboard as > well. I only looked at it once and I wasn't really trying to find out > what kind of computer it was so I don't know much about it yet. It sounds a lot like it's an Apple IIc or maybe a IIc+. Really great little computers, but not worth all the much. Maybe $10-$30 depending on the condition--possibly a bit more if you can find someone who really wants one badly. > If this computer sounds like it might be worth something to someone > out there, let me know and I can find out more about it. My aunt and > uncle are having kind of hard times because my uncle has been taken > into the army and I'm quite sure they would be glad to sell the > computer to someone if it's worth something. What, they've reinstated the draft?! I didn't even know we were at war (yet). -brian. From kenziem at sympatico.ca Sun Jan 26 19:24:00 2003 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: first photo's Message-ID: <20030127012724.LVQE17488.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> The first photo's of my basement have made it to the web. http://vic.dyndns.org/pics/2003-01-25/LG-2003-01-25-032.jpg http://vic.dyndns.org/pics/2003-01-25/LG-2003-01-25-033.jpg These are taken just before the Open Source Weekend Demo. I'm still learning how to use my camera. So my shots will be a bit longer before they see the light of day. From ssj152 at charter.net Sun Jan 26 19:26:01 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (ssj152) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: Little old Apple computer Message-ID: <050d01c2c5a3$8a0faf20$0200a8c0@cosmo> >----- Original Message ----- >Hello, > >Hey, my aunt and uncle were given a little old apple computer and I don't think they use it at >all. I don't know what model it is, but I know it's ancient. It has a little tiny monitor >with a green display. I think the brains of the computer are inside the keyboard........like >the old Commadore 64s. The disk drive might be inside the keyboard as well. I only looked at >it once and I wasn't really trying to find out what kind of computer it was so I don't know >much about it yet. > >If this computer sounds like it might be worth something to someone out there, let me know and >I can find out more about it. My aunt and uncle are having kind of hard times because my >uncle has been taken into the army and I'm quite sure they would be glad to sell the computer >to someone if it's worth something. > >~Shawn Sounds like an Apple //c with the Monitor //c (monochrome monitor that Apple sold for it). Not very rare or very valuable. Ebay has an auction for a monitor //c (Item #2302608656), currently at $10.00 US. An Apple //c is also for auction on eBay (item #2302671100), currently at $26.00 US. This will give you a sense of the computer's worth. I am sure that a unit with lots of accessories, software, etc. and in excellent condition, will bring more. Stuart From ssj152 at charter.net Sun Jan 26 19:31:01 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (ssj152) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: Odd posting order on cctech References: <1043629910.2175.198.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <051601c2c5a4$319d8370$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Guy Sotomayor" To: Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 7:11 PM Subject: Re: Odd posting order on cctech > On Sun, 2003-01-26 at 15:17, Witchy wrote: > > Hi folks, > > > > Just a small puzzling question I've got - why is my mail delivery of > > hours before I do, and I don't believe it's a Demon thing either since none > > of my other mails are affected. > > > > Anyone else get the same problem? > > > > Yes and I'm here in San Jose, California. Messages dribble in one or > two at a time and then I'll get 50-100 all at once from the day before. > -- > > TTFN - Guy > > I get them more or less continuously - they seem to trickle in, at a rate that makes me think that they are being received as they are sent. My email program is checking my POP at a 5 min rate and I may get no messages or 2-5 messages in that interval. Stuart Johnson US, Alabama From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Jan 26 19:39:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: first photo's In-Reply-To: <20030127012724.LVQE17488.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> References: <20030127012724.LVQE17488.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: Well.. I loaded up yer URLs - and 5 minutes later, when about 1/3 of the first eleventy-bazillon byte .jpg had drizzled into my browser, I abandoned it. Us poor deprived dial-up folks are sure getting to be left behind in the Brave New Bandwidth World... sigh. Honestly though... you might want to consider cutting the resolution and size a bit. The files are just too big for my particular patience threshold, (not to mention 1/2 again bigger than my screen) YMMV! Cheers John From marvin at rain.org Sun Jan 26 19:41:01 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: first photo's References: <20030127012724.LVQE17488.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <3E348ED0.C3E32DDB@rain.org> You might find it useful to reduce the resolution of the shots when sending them for viewing on the web to about 72 dpi. 2 Mb is a bit large to justify the download time on a slow connection. Mike wrote: > > The first photo's of my basement have made it to the web. > > http://vic.dyndns.org/pics/2003-01-25/LG-2003-01-25-032.jpg > > http://vic.dyndns.org/pics/2003-01-25/LG-2003-01-25-033.jpg > > These are taken just before the Open Source Weekend Demo. I'm still learning > how to use my camera. So my shots will be a bit longer before they see the > light of day. From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Sun Jan 26 19:42:19 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: first photo's Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C9AC@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Mike, Long time since I've seen a NeXT like that! (my first puter in the US was one, called Boris :) --f From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Jan 26 19:44:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: Odd posting order on cctech In-Reply-To: <051601c2c5a4$319d8370$0200a8c0@cosmo> References: <1043629910.2175.198.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> <051601c2c5a4$319d8370$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: I get classiccmp messages in 'burp' mode.... hours go by, then 10-40 stream in in 15 minutes. Also, I know it's getting toward evening in the Western US because the Duell Dump takes place: Tony hitting the keys right before beddie-bye in Merry Old. ;} But seriously, message traffic from the several lists I subscribe to is typically 'bursty' - while a classiccmp mesage that I originate takes about 3 - 5 min on the average to propagate back to me in the form of a posted message. Cheers John From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Jan 26 20:08:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: first photo's References: <20030127012724.LVQE17488.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <3E349498.9060904@jetnet.ab.ca> Mike wrote: > The first photo's of my basement have made it to the web. {snip} A tad big,still downloading the first one. :) I think a 'large file' warning is needed but it is nice to see a large image that is clear and sharp that lets you see the whole picture than a fuzzy thumbnail. In fact it is so big and clear I just want to grab that box of computer books and dig through it. Ben. From rborsuk at colourfull.com Sun Jan 26 20:27:01 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: IRIX distro (was Re: cool find.) In-Reply-To: <1043594038.25976.1.camel@crusader> Message-ID: <1DC3FEE0-319F-11D7-ADCB-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> David, Just wanted to mention that I've just joined the list and it's great to see a fellow Crimson owner. I'm still trying to find a complete reality engine for mine. I just had it out today. I'm wanting to put Irix 5.2 on it. Rob Michigan, USA On Sunday, January 26, 2003, at 10:13 AM, David Holland wrote: > If its a Crimson era machine, I've 6.2.(something) images sitting > around > here on disk. I've not burned them to CD to see if they'll boot > yet though.. > > (Yes, my Crimson project is a really really slow thing.) > > David > > On Sun, 2003-01-26 at 00:35, Ethan Dicks wrote: >> >> --- Lawrence LeMay wrote: >>>> >>>> I just got myself an Indigo2 R8000. >>>> and the cool thing is I actually got a copy of IRIX 6.5 with it, I >>>> now >>>> have IRIX media Yay! >>>> >>> >>> I wasnt aware Irix CD's were at all rare. >> >> Me neither. In fact, I could use a set for a friend in Germany. I'll >> have to find out precisely what he's after, but I would initially >> think >> it's for something in the Indy/Indigo class (not like a Crimson or >> Onyx) >> and as new as feasible. >> >> Can anyone help? >> >> Thanks, >> >> -ethan >> >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do you Yahoo!? >> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >> http://mailplus.yahoo.com > > From pietstan at rogers.com Sun Jan 26 20:30:01 2003 From: pietstan at rogers.com (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: Digital AXPpci33 "noname" questions References: <20030121224501.57134.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> <3E2DEAD7.40908@rogers.com> Message-ID: <3E349A2B.4000802@rogers.com> Stan Pietkiewicz wrote: > > > Ethan Dicks wrote: > <> > > I'm using 4 * 32MB simms in my machine, and I seem to recall that the > user's guide referred to a maximum supported memory (under DEC Unix) of > 512MB. Of course, the maximum supported for that other, not thoroughly > debugged, OS was only! 256MB... (bash mode off ;-}) ) > > If I find the manual , I'll look it up... I also have a pdf somewhere... > > I found the .pdf OEM design guide.... The maximum tested memory is 4 * 64MB SIMMS for a total of 256MB. The NT / Unix differences were in the minimum recommended: 16 MB for NT, and 32 MB for Digital Unix. From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sun Jan 26 20:44:52 2003 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: Taper proof tools. In-Reply-To: <000701c2c4c8$31cb3720$0264640a@auradon.com> Message-ID: <200301270247.UAA14421@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Do a google search for 'security screwdriver', or 'security screwdriver sega'. Once you can determine the proper type, you can search for just that screwdriver instead of buying an expensive set. -Lawrence LeMay > Hi all, > I am looking for one of those tamper proof tool for the sega nomad. It is > basically the same shape as the screws for the game cartridges on the > genesis but it is so far recessed (3/4 in) that the pliers trick will not > work. > Anyone know of a source for such tool? > Thank you > Francois > > From jss at subatomix.com Sun Jan 26 20:52:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: Odd posting order on cctech In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <103115013200.20030126205524@subatomix.com> On Sunday, January 26, 2003, Witchy wrote: > Anyone else get the same problem? It's not a bug, it's a feature. Or rather, it's a side effect of how the lists work. You may wish to read these: http://www.classiccmp.org/cctech.html http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2003-January/013113.html -- Jeffrey Sharp From kenziem at sympatico.ca Sun Jan 26 21:01:01 2003 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: first photo's - thumbnails In-Reply-To: References: <20030127012724.LVQE17488.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <20030127030441.DWUQ13282.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> On Sunday 26 January 2003 20:42, John Lawson wrote: > Well.. I loaded up yer URLs - and 5 minutes later, when about 1/3 of the > first eleventy-bazillon byte .jpg had drizzled into my browser, I > abandoned it. > > Us poor deprived dial-up folks are sure getting to be left behind in > the Brave New Bandwidth World... sigh. Sorry about tht I've just upgraded to teh ultra high speed DSLK and they didn't take so long. The thumbnails and other resolutions can be found near the bottom of this page. http://vic.dyndns.org/pics/2003-01-25/ From jss at subatomix.com Sun Jan 26 21:03:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: Jeff Worley... In-Reply-To: <004501c2c4da$83121470$0b01010a@cvendel> References: <004501c2c4da$83121470$0b01010a@cvendel> Message-ID: <179115693909.20030126210645@subatomix.com> On Saturday, January 25, 2003, Curt Vendel wrote: > I just thought everyone should know that Jeff Worley is most certainly ok > in my book It's good to know that he's ok, both in your book and in the general sense. We had found an obit that looked like it could be his, and that was quite troubling. Mr. Worley is a great guy. He gave me my first PDP-11. -- Jeffrey Sharp From avickers at solutionengineers.com Sun Jan 26 21:23:01 2003 From: avickers at solutionengineers.com (Adrian Vickers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: HP1000's Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030127031803.017c05e0@slave> Wow, what a day... Today (erm, well, yesterday now), I have collected 2x HP1000 machines (c/w 4 free-standing disks & 1 line printer), one 700 (can't remember if that's a HP1000 model or not), and a whole stack of tapes & disc packs & documentation. Woohoo! Thanks Tim! Sadly, we weren't able to save a 3rd HP1000, as the van was already showing serious signs of being overloaded with the gear that was in there - backing into my shed, it was actually running over its own mudflaps... I forgot my digicam, so there's no pics yet. Hopefully, when I'm up north next I'll take a few snaps (and try to get at least one of the boxes booted). And now, I'm officially knackered, g'night! -- Cheers, Ade. Be where it's at, B-Racing! http://b-racing.com From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Sun Jan 26 21:27:00 2003 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: Little old Apple computer In-Reply-To: <20030126230240.43886.qmail@web12306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030126230240.43886.qmail@web12306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1043638262.1592.12.camel@azure.subsolar> On Sun, 2003-01-26 at 17:02, Shawn H. wrote: > > Hello, > > Hey, my aunt and uncle were given a little old apple computer and I don't think they use it at all. I don't know what model it is, but I know it's ancient. It has a little tiny monitor with a green display. I think the brains of the computer are inside the keyboard........like the old Commadore 64s. The disk drive might be inside the keyboard as well. I only looked at it once and I wasn't really trying to find out what kind of computer it was so I don't know much about it yet. > > If this computer sounds like it might be worth something to someone out there, let me know and I can find out more about it. My aunt and uncle are having kind of hard times because my uncle has been taken into the army and I'm quite sure they would be glad to sell the computer to someone if it's worth something. > > ~Shawn > The local thrift store has about a half dozen of these systems ... I don't know how much they are for sure, but off hand, I think they were asking $10 for the systems. I remember these were really popular with students during the early '80s so there is not a real lack of them. Not to say that they were not fun little systems, I just never had one, and don't collect them or else I would have bought them. Paul > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jan 26 22:07:00 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: A cool vintage hardware hack. References: Message-ID: <3E34B21A.3010105@tiac.net> Will do, I may have real file access working by then! Sellam Ismail wrote: >On Sun, 26 Jan 2003, Bob Shannon wrote: > >>I've just gotten a fun little hardware project working. >> >>And I do beleive that I've got the first HP1000 minicomputer with an 8 >>gigabyte hard drive too. >> ><...> > >Bob, > >This is simply AWESOME! I hope you can exhibit this and give a talk about >it at the next VCF East. > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030126/f6245721/attachment.html From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jan 26 22:12:01 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: A cool vintage hardware hack. References: <3B67F8EC-30B6-11D7-959B-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> <3E332328.5070906@charter.net> <3E33EF5F.8010809@tiac.net> <33108.64.169.63.74.1043614167.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <034601c2c57f$772ab040$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3E34B360.1030308@tiac.net> Umm, and 'H' series drive needs the 12821A controller board, not the 13037! 13037's are only for MAC disks, ICD drives (the 'H' drives) don't use a 13037 at all, they just run directly to a 12821 as far as I can tell from the documentation. Jay West wrote: >Eric wrote... > >>But for those of us that use the earlier 1000/2100 machines, your >>approach is interesting. Since I want to run HP 2000 Access TSB, I >>need a disk system that emulates 7905, 7906, or 7920 drives on a 13037 >>disk controller attached via a 13175 host adapter. Perhaps your design >>would make a good starting point. >> > >7900A drives work as well for TSB, not just the 7905/6/20 drives. The 7900A >drives do not require the 13037 controller or subsystem, they just require a >13210 disc interface pca in the cpu. Totally different interface between >7900, to 7905/06/20. Also, be careful on the 7906, as only the A-D models >will work with TSB. The H model, which is HP-IB, will not (at least via a >direct HP-IB PCA card - if the H model 7906 drive is hooked up to a 13037 >subsystem that supports HP-IB as well {not many 13037 subsystems had the >HP-IB option} then it MAY work on TSB if the HP-IB portion of the 13037 is >"hidden"). I'll have to try that someday. > >Also, the host adapter and the disc controller subsystem box are both called >13037. Never heard of a 13175? Am I missing something? > >Also, check out the 7900/7905/7906/7920 drive emulator at arraid.com (AEM >box I think). I hope to be receiving one of those soon. > >Jay West > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From jss at subatomix.com Sun Jan 26 22:30:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: eBay: HP 2100 Gear (Expensive) Message-ID: <155120901667.20030126223333@subatomix.com> Here are some auctions to watch if you like HP stuff. I don't know much about HP minis, but the prices strike me as a bit too high. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2303485590 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2303485590 -- Jeffrey Sharp From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Jan 26 22:58:01 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: Xilinx purge this time In-Reply-To: <20030122193931.65376.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > What sizes? I use lots of 16V8s and 22V10s. If you have any parts with > a "Q" near the end, I could _really_ use those (they are quarter power > parts with an obscenely low draw - I'm building portable stuff like the > SBC6120... draws 175mA @ 5V at the moment, about 1/2 of it in 3 GALs). Most are 16V8 and 20V8. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Jan 26 23:07:00 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: Xilinx purge this time (finished!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK, the big FPGA and GAL purge is finished, and the winners have been notified. Thanks for playing! William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sun Jan 26 23:27:00 2003 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: Little old Apple computer In-Reply-To: <1043638262.1592.12.camel@azure.subsolar> from "Paul Berger" at Jan 26, 2003 09:31:02 PM Message-ID: <200301270530.WAA15484@calico.litterbox.com> Sounds like an AppleIIc > > On Sun, 2003-01-26 at 17:02, Shawn H. wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > Hey, my aunt and uncle were given a little old apple computer and I don't think they use it at all. I don't know what model it is, but I know it's ancient. It has a little tiny monitor with a green display. I think the brains of the computer are inside the keyboard........like the old Commadore 64s. The disk drive might be inside the keyboard as well. I only looked at it once and I wasn't really trying to find out what kind of computer it was so I don't know much about it yet. > > > > If this computer sounds like it might be worth something to someone out there, let me know and I can find out more about it. My aunt and uncle are having kind of hard times because my uncle has been taken into the army and I'm quite sure they would be glad to sell the computer to someone if it's worth something. > > > > ~Shawn > > > > The local thrift store has about a half dozen of these systems ... I > don't know how much they are for sure, but off hand, I think they were > asking $10 for the systems. I remember these were really popular with > students during the early '80s so there is not a real lack of them. Not > to say that they were not fun little systems, I just never had one, and > don't collect them or else I would have bought them. > > Paul > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now > > > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- MacOS X Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From red at bears.org Sun Jan 26 23:29:00 2003 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: Need ECU for Everex Step Megacube Message-ID: Hi, guys. I picked up an Everex Step Megacube yesterday, and fulfilled a 10-year-old, forgotten lust. I wanted one of these REALLY BADLY when they were new. Anyway, I need the ECU (EISA configuration utility) for this guy, or at the very least the .CFG for the motherboard. If somebody has it and could email me a copy (pkzip or somesuch is fine) I would be eternally grateful. Thanks! ok r. From jimkeo at multi-platforms.com Sun Jan 26 23:42:04 2003 From: jimkeo at multi-platforms.com (Jim Keohane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: Wanted: 1971,2 IBM 3670 Brokerage Communications System Message-ID: <010401c2c5c7$357c5660$0200000a@ibm0187702152> Interested in documentation, user guides, programmer manuals, brochures, advertisements, etc. If someone actually has one or more of the hardware components that would be very interesting. IBM announced it in 1971 with a big sale to Merrill Lynch that may never have been fully completed. Thanks in advance, - Jim Jim Keohane, Multi-Platforms, Inc. "It's not whether you win or lose. It's whether you win!" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030126/da826f71/attachment.html From jimkeo at multi-platforms.com Sun Jan 26 23:53:55 2003 From: jimkeo at multi-platforms.com (Jim Keohane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: Wanted: 1971,2 IBM 3670 Brokerage Communications System Message-ID: <011e01c2c5c8$df1dd300$0200000a@ibm0187702152> Interested in documentation, user guides, programmer manuals, brochures, advertisements, etc. If someone actually has one or more of the hardware components that would be very interesting. IBM announced it in 1971 with a big sale to Merrill Lynch that may never have been fully completed. Thanks in advance, - Jim Jim Keohane, Multi-Platforms, Inc. "It's not whether you win or lose. It's whether you win!" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030126/62506707/attachment.html From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 27 00:16:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: System/36 whining and begging... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Jan 2003, Colin Eby wrote: > working on a list of questions and puzzles to accomplish this goal.The > first obvious problem is media to hardware integration. If memory serves, I > read somewhere that IBM used an oddball disk format (Sellam, you might know > this). 8" Shuggart drives come on the market from time to time but, would > they, using low level drivers, be able to make a physical block by block > copy of IBM S/36 disk data? The second problem is hardware to hardware I wouldn't know this, but certainly Eric Smith does. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jan 27 00:17:33 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: Need ECU for Everex Step Megacube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > I picked up an Everex Step Megacube yesterday, and fulfilled a > 10-year-old, forgotten lust. I wanted one of these REALLY BADLY when > they were new. > > Anyway, I need the ECU (EISA configuration utility) for this guy, or at > the very least the .CFG for the motherboard. > > If somebody has it and could email me a copy (pkzip or somesuch is fine) > I would be eternally grateful. Do you know if the motherboard is one of the customized Everex boards? I've seen quite a few EISA servers of that vintage from well-known companies that used fairly standard boards from companies such as Mylex. -Toth From ssj152 at charter.net Mon Jan 27 00:43:01 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: test - I think I fixed why my email address displayed instead of my name... Message-ID: <010701c2c5cf$ccebe8f0$0200a8c0@cosmo> I used to use this email account for another purpose. I had this email account set for the "name" field to be "ssj152", in a misguided attempt to maintain SOME privacy. I changed the name field back to "Stuart Johnson" and posted this message to see if it comes out correctly. Sorry for any confusion or "breach of etiquette" before. Stuart Johnson From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Mon Jan 27 00:52:00 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: Can a TU81+ be connected to a TU80 controller? Message-ID: <0301270655.AA14736@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Kees Stravers wrote: > I know the TU81+ is supposed to be connected to a KLESI > controller. But can a TU81+ be connected to the TU80 controller (only doing > 1600 then of course)? I thought that TU80 had a Pertec formatted interface while TU81 (plus or not) had LESI interface, i.e., two totally different interfaces. They are both CDC Keystone tape transports and I think it's one board inside that provides the interface and thus differs. But if you want to try swapping CDC Keystone logic boards, you are on your own. MS From red at bears.org Mon Jan 27 01:03:01 2003 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: Need ECU for Everex Step Megacube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, Tothwolf wrote: > Do you know if the motherboard is one of the customized Everex boards? > I've seen quite a few EISA servers of that vintage from well-known > companies that used fairly standard boards from companies such as Mylex. I have no way of knowing. The board is an EV-18113. Everex wasn't the sort of company who did that sort of thing anyway. It has a number of unique features, however, which lead me to believe that it is an Everex production. Like.. 10 EISA slots, 1 8-bit ISA slot, and the system memory is on a special 32-bit slot down at the bottom of the cabinet. There is no way to install memory directly on the motherboard. ok r. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Jan 27 04:38:01 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: Inland ProBackup 500 sought (pinouts or software) Message-ID: <20030127104127.4742.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com> Message: 23 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 20:32:22 GMT From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >From a previous life, I have a perfectly fine working UPS. ... > Would anyone happen to have windows software for it? As a last resort, how > standard is the DB9 pinout (IF I can find the pinout, no luck there > either)... I'm wondering if I can use just about any UPS software for it. I guess you can get a meter on the various port pins and simulate various failure modes to work out which pins signify what - if the UPS is non-intelligent and just uses various serial port pins to signify conditions. If the UPS forms some sort of protocol with the host you have a bit of a problem! I seem to remember setting up a linux box with an unknown UPS years ago, and doing just that, but of course getting a UPS to work with Linux is probably a little easier than Windows as you don't need any custom software. I expect if you can figure the UPS port out and find out what the UPS software (whichever you choose) on Windows needs then you can wire up a cable and everything should work fine. have a look at: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/UPS-HOWTO.html that says that a lot of intelligent UPSes can be operated in dumb mode, and also gives specs for a few units. Probably worth a read even though it's for Linux. cheers Jules __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Mon Jan 27 04:53:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: OT: Location Message-ID: I may be new to the list, but my location's always been there. Cheers! :) Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, TX; USA Phone (210) 592-3110, Fax (210) 592-2048 edward.tillman@valero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of "Francois" > > Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 12:24 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: OT: Location > > Hi all, > Sorry for the OT post but I think it is worth noting since it relates to > the > list. > I seen a few post where people add their location after their name in the > signature, I think this is way cool and give a perspective on the > globalization of the list. > I would like to strongly encourage everybody on theis list to do the same > and add your location. > Thank you for your attention > Francois > Minnesota USA > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2633 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030127/e5254b8a/attachment.bin From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Jan 27 04:55:01 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: first photo's Message-ID: <20030127105841.86812.qmail@web21105.mail.yahoo.com> > Well.. I loaded up yer URLs - and 5 minutes later, when about 1/3 of the > first eleventy-bazillon byte .jpg had drizzled into my browser, I > abandoned it. ha ha - yeah, they were a bit big. Glad this browser's got a zoom feature. seems to be a common mistake people make when they first get a digital camera - I've seen a similar thing with scanners, where people insist on scanning a whole A4 page and sending that around for the sake of the tiny photo up in one corner. You learn by experience though I guess, and as someone else said it's nice to have the big images but some sort of warning and smaller thumbnail versions would have been nice. cheers Jules __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Mon Jan 27 05:00:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: Inland ProBackup 500 sought (pinouts or software) Message-ID: You know the brand name of the UPS: There's likely freebie software out there on one of the .dll catalogue pages, if you know the make/model/series names/numbers. Also, you might heck with C|Net (Download.com), ZDnet, or similar pages. If they don't have it, they can likely point you in the right direction... Cheers! Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, TX; USA Phone (210) 592-3110, Fax (210) 592-2048 edward.tillman@valero.com > > >From a previous life, I have a perfectly fine working UPS. > ... > > Would anyone happen to have windows software for it? As a last resort, > how > > standard is the DB9 pinout (IF I can find the pinout, no luck there > > either)... I'm wondering if I can use just about any UPS software for > it. > > http://uk.my.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2594 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030127/c872504b/attachment.bin From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Mon Jan 27 05:07:01 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: Spectrum Holobyte Tetris Message-ID: I thought I'd never hear that company's name again. I've been looking feverishly, for about 3 years, for a copy of Spectrum Holobyte's "Blockout!" The base game is a series of walls the player needs to take down by grouping 3 or more like blocks or symbols. It also contains bombs, missiles, and other cute destructive devices. It was a simple game, made to run in DOS, and I'd (or my wife would!) just about die for a copy of it. Ours died when my DOS-based BBS fried back in '97... Cheers... Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, TX; USA Phone (210) 592-3110, Fax (210) 592-2048 edward.tillman@valero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of David > Holland > Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 9:33 AM > To: Classic Computer Talk > Subject: Re: Spectrum Holobyte Tetris > > Now, I don't have a copy of Spectrum Holobyte's Tetris lying around > here, but I don't recall hearing any mention of it having noteworthy > contents. > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2829 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030127/48be3124/attachment.bin From rschaefe at gcfn.org Mon Jan 27 05:24:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: '386 chip upgrade? Message-ID: <000001c2c5f7$377c4440$7d00a8c0@george> I've got an old P70 (IBM MCA luggable w/ plasma display) with a '386DX20 that I'm playing around with. Does anyone know if there's a drop-in replacement for the '386DX? I'm pretty constrained space-wise, no room for an interposer and barely room for a heatsink should one prove necessary. I'm not aiming for a fire-breathing monster, just more geek points when I boot AIX-PS/2 and Solaris-mca 2.6 on it. Thanks! Bob From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Mon Jan 27 05:43:00 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: '386 chip upgrade? Message-ID: AMD made a 486 "SLC" chip that might probably do the trick... Originally, it was designed as a Laptop CPU, But I was able to use it in a baby-AT form factor to rum my BBS... :) Cheers! Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, TX; USA Phone (210) 592-3110, Fax (210) 592-2048 edward.tillman@valero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org@PEUSA On Behalf Of "Robert F. > Schaefer" > Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 8:13 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: '386 chip upgrade? > > I've got an old P70 (IBM MCA luggable w/ plasma display) with a '386DX20 > that I'm playing around with. Does anyone know if there's a drop-in > replacement for the '386DX? I'm pretty constrained space-wise, no room > for > an interposer and barely room for a heatsink should one prove necessary. > I'm not aiming for a fire-breathing monster, just more geek points when I > boot AIX-PS/2 and Solaris-mca 2.6 on it. > > Thanks! > > Bob > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2799 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030127/a8b0b9e6/attachment.bin From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Jan 27 07:44:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: A cool vintage hardware hack. References: <3B67F8EC-30B6-11D7-959B-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> <3E332328.5070906@charter.net> <3E33EF5F.8010809@tiac.net> <33108.64.169.63.74.1043614167.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <034601c2c57f$772ab040$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3E34B360.1030308@tiac.net> Message-ID: <00fe01c2c60a$8f3ce320$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Not sure if this made it to the list.... Bob wrote... > Umm, and 'H' series drive needs the 12821A controller board, not the 13037! > > 13037's are only for MAC disks, ICD drives (the 'H' drives) don't use a > 13037 at all, they > just run directly to a 12821 as far as I can tell from the documentation. No, the H model 7906 drive CAN go to a 13037 disc subsystem, but only if the particular 13037 disc subsystem you have, has the HP-IB option card in it. It can of course, go to a 12821 controller instead. Jay West From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Jan 27 07:48:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: '386 chip upgrade? In-Reply-To: <000001c2c5f7$377c4440$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Jan 2003, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > I'm not aiming for a fire-breathing monster, just more geek points when I > boot AIX-PS/2 and Solaris-mca 2.6 on it. God, now I'm envious. I've wanted AIX-PS/2 since I knew it existed, but hadn't heard of Solaris-mca. Is that regular Solaris for i386, or is it a special version? Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From allain at panix.com Mon Jan 27 08:19:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: first photo's References: <20030127012724.LVQE17488.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> <3E348ED0.C3E32DDB@rain.org> Message-ID: <05b901c2c60f$8a46cca0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I noticed that the original poster has already made multiple resolution versions of his pics. Change the LG to SM for thumbnail, and to MD for "normal" web resolution. EG: http://vic.dyndns.org/pics/2003-01-25/LG-2003-01-25-033.jpg John A. Mike wrote: > The first photo's of my basement have made it to the web. > http://vic.dyndns.org/pics/2003-01-25/LG-2003-01-25-032.jpg > http://vic.dyndns.org/pics/2003-01-25/LG-2003-01-25-033.jpg From allain at panix.com Mon Jan 27 08:23:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: first photo's Message-ID: <05c501c2c60f$d5593e80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I noticed that the original poster has already made multiple resolution versions of his pics. Change the LG to SM for thumbnail, and to MD for "normal" web resolution. EG: http://vic.dyndns.org/pics/2003-01-25/MD-2003-01-25-033.jpg s/LG/MD/ as I should have John A. Mike wrote: > The first photo's of my basement have made it to the web. > http://vic.dyndns.org/pics/2003-01-25/LG-2003-01-25-032.jpg > http://vic.dyndns.org/pics/2003-01-25/LG-2003-01-25-033.jpg From rborsuk at colourfull.com Mon Jan 27 08:27:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: '386 chip upgrade? In-Reply-To: <000001c2c5f7$377c4440$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: Bob, PLCC or PGA? Rob Borsuk rborsuk@colourfull.com http://www.colourfull.com Michigan, USA On Sunday, January 26, 2003, at 09:13 PM, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > I've got an old P70 (IBM MCA luggable w/ plasma display) with a > '386DX20 > that I'm playing around with. Does anyone know if there's a drop-in > replacement for the '386DX? I'm pretty constrained space-wise, no > room for > an interposer and barely room for a heatsink should one prove > necessary. > I'm not aiming for a fire-breathing monster, just more geek points > when I > boot AIX-PS/2 and Solaris-mca 2.6 on it. > > Thanks! > > Bob From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 27 09:16:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: Odd posting order on cctech In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Jan 2003, Witchy wrote: > Anyone else get the same problem? Sometimes, yes. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Mon Jan 27 09:20:00 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:07 2005 Subject: Odd posting order on cctech Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C9B0@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Happens on cctalk a lot, too.. strange order, bursty (nothing for 5 hours, and then BOOM - 30 postings at once). --f From kth at srv.net Mon Jan 27 09:27:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:08 2005 Subject: Bernoulli References: Message-ID: <3E355575.8040207@srv.net> Evan R. Pauley wrote: >Seth/all, > >Actually, he could be looking at a 20MB drive. Iomega produced a dual 20MB >box called the Bernoulli Box II, which had two 5-1/4" 20 meg drives side by > This is the 5-1/4 unit (side by side) apparently with 20MB drives. The 90meg 5-1/4 cartridges fit in it, but I doubt that they would work correctly. Also 20meg is quite small any more. Well, I'll hang onto it until I find some media to go with it, or someone who needs it. >side. I believe the 20Z that Kevin's talking about could have used the old >8" drive cartridges, which Iomega also made about 1987 or so to replace the >original Bernoulli 10MB unit. The 20Z had two 8" drives arranged >vertically, if memory serves. > >The SCSI interface was either bootable (a 50B card, I believe) or >non-bootable (a 50 card). I think I still have the manuals and driver disks >as well, on 5-1/4" floppies ONLY. If you need them, let me know ASAP and >I'll dig through the archives. I'm certain I still have a couple of the >interface cards as well. > I think I found the software on iomega's site, but without media to worrk with, I cant be sure. Since the media seems to be scarce, it might be a while before I find any to play with. This unit didn't come with an interface card, so I'm hoping that a regular SCSI controller can run it. > >I also still have the old BBII, with manuals and interface card. I think I >also have an internal 150MB IDE (which reads the 90MB cartridges) and I'm >sitting here looking at four of the 5-1/4" 20MB packs and one of the 150's >on my shelf. Last I tried them (about five years ago), they both still >worked fine. > Well, if you want the two 90meg media, I'll make you a good deal on them. Don't have anything else to do with them. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Jan 27 09:29:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:08 2005 Subject: OT: Location and GPS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3E355F28.14380.256938CC@localhost> > > Hi all, > > I seen a few post where people add their location after their name in > > the signature, I think this is way cool and give a perspective on the > > globalization of the list. > > I would like to strongly encourage everybody on theis list to do the > > same and add your location. > I may be new to the list, but my location's always been there. Well, at least for a lot of people outside the US, the Domain Name already offers a hint (of course except for those who equal de with Denmark :), unless tey use AOL. But for a total different Topic: Does anybody know about an actual reroute for GPS satelites? I had problems with my car navigation system: no more than two satelites at the same time. So I also checked my other eq, and could never get more than 3, even on a flat field outside the city. That's quite unusual, the normal number ranges between 3 and 7. Gruss H. P.S.: Adding coordinates would be even better, for example in the same way as they are used for web pages: see http://geotags.com/geo/geotags2.html -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From dholland at woh.rr.com Mon Jan 27 09:40:01 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:08 2005 Subject: IRIX distro (was Re: cool find.) In-Reply-To: <1DC3FEE0-319F-11D7-ADCB-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> References: <1DC3FEE0-319F-11D7-ADCB-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Message-ID: <1043682801.13173.11.camel@crusader> Howdy, Now I've some competition to find a elusive RE boardset. (drat) :-) Actually, what I'd really like to find is a DG2/GE8 and a couple of RM5's so I can have more texture memory, but I'll "settle" for a generic RE w/ RM4's. :-) I also need a set red skins, but eh.. Any particular reason for 5.2? W/ a full 256Mb of memory I didn't think 6.2 would be horrific performance.. David On Sun, 2003-01-26 at 21:29, Robert Borsuk wrote: > David, > Just wanted to mention that I've just joined the list and it's great > to see a fellow Crimson owner. I'm still trying to find a complete > reality engine for mine. I just had it out today. I'm wanting to put > Irix 5.2 on it. > > Rob > Michigan, USA > On Sunday, January 26, 2003, at 10:13 AM, David Holland wrote: > > > If its a Crimson era machine, I've 6.2.(something) images sitting > > around > > here on disk. I've not burned them to CD to see if they'll boot > > yet though.. > > > > (Yes, my Crimson project is a really really slow thing.) > > > > David > > > > On Sun, 2003-01-26 at 00:35, Ethan Dicks wrote: > >> > >> --- Lawrence LeMay wrote: > >>>> > >>>> I just got myself an Indigo2 R8000. > >>>> and the cool thing is I actually got a copy of IRIX 6.5 with it, I > >>>> now > >>>> have IRIX media Yay! > >>>> > >>> > >>> I wasnt aware Irix CD's were at all rare. > >> > >> Me neither. In fact, I could use a set for a friend in Germany. I'll > >> have to find out precisely what he's after, but I would initially > >> think > >> it's for something in the Indy/Indigo class (not like a Crimson or > >> Onyx) > >> and as new as feasible. > >> > >> Can anyone help? > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> -ethan From kth at srv.net Mon Jan 27 09:42:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:08 2005 Subject: Odd posting order on cctech References: <1043629910.2175.198.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> <051601c2c5a4$319d8370$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <3E3558D0.1070608@srv.net> John Lawson wrote: > I get classiccmp messages in 'burp' mode.... hours go by, then 10-40 >stream in in 15 minutes. > > Also, I know it's getting toward evening in the Western US because the >Duell Dump takes place: Tony hitting the keys right before beddie-bye in >Merry Old. ;} > > > But seriously, message traffic from the several lists I subscribe to is >typically 'bursty' - while a classiccmp mesage that I originate takes >about 3 - 5 min on the average to propagate back to me in the form of a >posted message. > > Probably due to the way e-mail is handled by some servers. They collect messages for a while, then every (x) minutes try to forward whatever they have collected. This will cause you to see the delays, and bursty traffic. You can also get this with a very busy server somewhere between you and the list. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Jan 27 10:21:01 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:08 2005 Subject: Odd posting order on cctech In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C9B0@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Happens on cctalk a lot, too.. strange order, bursty (nothing for > 5 hours, and then BOOM - 30 postings at once). I read this as "...strange odor, bursty..." and figured that either some electrolytic capacitors died in one of your classic systems or that perhaps you had too many Taco Bell bean burritos for lunch. Thank you, thank you! I'm here until the end of the week! -brian. From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Mon Jan 27 10:59:00 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:08 2005 Subject: Odd posting order on cctech References: <1043629910.2175.198.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <3E356607.7080707@Vishay.com> Guy Sotomayor wrote: > On Sun, 2003-01-26 at 15:17, Witchy wrote: > >>Hi folks, >> >>Just a small puzzling question I've got - why is my mail delivery of >>classiccmp so unpredictable and out of order? I'm not on the digest list so >>I'd assume I'd be getting mails as and when they're sent to everyone else; >>as it is I get them later rather than sooner, and not in the order I'd >>expect them in....I'm on DSL so it's not like I'm waiting for deliveries. >>It's not a UK thing either since Tony, John and Peter all get their mails >>hours before I do, and I don't believe it's a Demon thing either since none >>of my other mails are affected. >> >>Anyone else get the same problem? >> > > > Yes and I'm here in San Jose, California. Messages dribble in one or > two at a time and then I'll get 50-100 all at once from the day before. The same thing happens here. I get my mails through a corporate connection to the Internet, which is in Malvern, Pennsylvania. A short look at the "Received" headers didn't enlighten me, maybe I need to look closer? - It seems like the header(s) that might cover the hop(s) where this happens are missing...? -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Mon Jan 27 11:49:00 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:08 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030126085038.00b0c040@mail.attbi.com> Message-ID: <3E3571CE.8060509@Vishay.com> Ed Chapel wrote: > Remember the early Kings Quest series of adventure games? > KQ1 has been remade for VGA graphics by a group called Tierra > Entertainment. > They are doing a terrific job of rebuilding the games. Same great > gameplay. > The remade version is a free download and works fine in Windows. > > KQ1 site: http://www.qknowledge.net/royalquest/KQ1index.htm > Tierra main site: http://www.qknowledge.net/royalquest/index.html > > Ed > Vancouver, WA > What about another famous series: "Leisure Suit Larry"...? -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Jan 27 11:52:01 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:08 2005 Subject: '386 chip upgrade? In-Reply-To: <000001c2c5f7$377c4440$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <3E34C4B4.16073.A06BCF@localhost> To my knowledge most of the 486SLC chips work with 386 MCA. I don't have a P70 so I can't say for sure. IBM 486DLC2 IBM Blue Lightning ? Kingston 486/SX Now! 25Mhz Cyrix 486Drx2 (AKA DRUsup2) TI486SLC Evergreen? You might check the comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware archive on google for the P70. In my archived files I have some info I could send you if you wish. Lawrence On 26 Jan 2003, , Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > I've got an old P70 (IBM MCA luggable w/ plasma display) > with a '386DX20 that I'm playing around with. Does anyone > know if there's a drop-in replacement for the '386DX? I'm > pretty constrained space-wise, no room for an interposer and > barely room for a heatsink should one prove necessary. I'm > not aiming for a fire-breathing monster, just more geek > points when I boot AIX-PS/2 and Solaris-mca 2.6 on it. > > Thanks! > > Bob > lgwalker@ mts.net From marvin at rain.org Mon Jan 27 12:00:01 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:08 2005 Subject: Ebay: Mark 1 Computer Cards Message-ID: <3E357480.27F0CF45@rain.org> The pictures didn't load for me right now, but if these truely are the Mark 1 cards, it sounds like a neat collection! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2303799002&category=1247 From fernande at internet1.net Mon Jan 27 12:12:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:08 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games In-Reply-To: <3E3571CE.8060509@Vishay.com> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030126085038.00b0c040@mail.attbi.com> <3E3571CE.8060509@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <3E357639.80709@internet1.net> > Ed Chapel wrote: > >> Remember the early Kings Quest series of adventure games? >> KQ1 has been remade for VGA graphics by a group called Tierra >> Entertainment. >> They are doing a terrific job of rebuilding the games. Same great >> gameplay. >> The remade version is a free download and works fine in Windows. >> >> KQ1 site: http://www.qknowledge.net/royalquest/KQ1index.htm >> Tierra main site: http://www.qknowledge.net/royalquest/index.html >> >> Ed >> Vancouver, WA I tried downloading it but got errors when clicking on cetain links on the web site, including the download page. Chad Fernandez Mcihigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Mon Jan 27 12:14:00 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:08 2005 Subject: '386 chip upgrade? In-Reply-To: <000001c2c5f7$377c4440$7d00a8c0@george> References: <000001c2c5f7$377c4440$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <3E357763.3050600@internet1.net> Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > I've got an old P70 (IBM MCA luggable w/ plasma display) with a '386DX20 > that I'm playing around with. Does anyone know if there's a drop-in > replacement for the '386DX? I'm pretty constrained space-wise, no room for > an interposer and barely room for a heatsink should one prove necessary. > I'm not aiming for a fire-breathing monster, just more geek points when I > boot AIX-PS/2 and Solaris-mca 2.6 on it. > > Thanks! > > Bob TI made a series of high powered 386's. They were supposed to upgrade your computer to 486 capabilities. They were better than the Cyrix chips, although, I don't recall why.... cache I think. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From patrick at evocative.com Mon Jan 27 12:20:00 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:08 2005 Subject: Possibly OT: Z80/CP/M programming In-Reply-To: <200301261926.OAA29007@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: Glen wrote: > [snip] > requires. Except . . . how do I dynamically allocate memory? I > don't see a > CP/M function call to allocate or free memory. Does such a > function exist, > and if so, what are the details? > > Lacking such a CP/M function, how do I write replacements for malloc() and > free()? It has to be possible or the calls would not exist in > the library of > the compiler I used to build the C program. Glen, CP/M doesn't have a BDOS or BIOS function to get memory from the underlying system, (like sbrk() on good 'ol Unix). Chances are your runtime library is just initializing a pointer to somewhere in high RAM, and just moving it down towards your program (or the stack) when malloc() can't satisfy a request from its free block list. But, I don't think you need to go that deep (assembly replacements, that is). You can probably accomplish a good bit of your analysis just by wrapping the library versions, and to go another step, you may even be able to replace and optimize their functionality in these wrappers. Writing the wrappers should be pretty straightforward. Let's say, for example, you call yours debug_malloc() and debug_free(). Have them write debug to a console, or just gather stats and tuck them away some place for later retrieval by a call made less frequently. After writing the console or whatever, do a malloc() and return the result (or do the free() if you're in debug_free() of course). You can just write these in C. No assembly required. Now the important part. Simple trick: put these replacements into a source file *separate* from the others. Then, in your *other* source files, use a #define to redefine malloc to your debug_malloc, such as: #define malloc(x) debug_malloc(x) You can easily do this in any file that the other source files #include, just to make your life easy, but make sure you debug_malloc() source file *doesn't* #include that file. Extra bonus: you can use an #ifdef/#endif to enable/disable your debug replacements. You'll have to wrap any similar calls like calloc() and strdup() if your program uses those, too. Recompile all of your code, together with your debug_malloc(). From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Jan 27 12:27:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:11 2005 Subject: Ebay: Mark 1 Computer Cards In-Reply-To: <3E357480.27F0CF45@rain.org> References: <3E357480.27F0CF45@rain.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, Marvin Johnston wrote: > The pictures didn't load for me right now, but if these truely are the > Mark 1 cards, it sounds like a neat collection! Even though his picture links were still broken when I checked it out - from the description text, it is *highly* doubtful that Linksys would be re-using Harvard Mark I relay cards (555 pounds of them) in it's mid-60s Boeing 727 Simulator - trainer. I been Worng before, but I kinda doubt this stuff came from Hahvahd. Cheers John From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Mon Jan 27 12:28:30 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:11 2005 Subject: Overlays, GKS... (Was: Re: New to list) References: <036001c2c417$12af85a0$0200a8c0@cosmo> <3E32B318.907FCC4C@Vishay.com> <3E341CB4.363B3474@compsys.to> Message-ID: <3E357AC4.8020509@Vishay.com> Jerome, Jerome H. Fine wrote: >>Andreas Freiherr wrote: >>For RT-11, I earned a reputation as an "overlay expert" when I managed >>to run several applications based on our own GKS (Graphical Kernel >>System) library within the address space of 64kB. The overlay tree was >>ported from RSX, and the same library was available for TOPS-10, VMS, >>several PC (DOS) FORTRAN compilers, and one FORTRAN implementation on >>the Atari ST. > > > NOW that would be very interesting. Is there a copy of the source > available? Was it ever submitted to DECUS? It wasn't a full implementation of the standard. That's why we didn't officially call it GKS, but GUGS, a German abbreviation for device-independant graphical system. But it was sufficient to do assorted tasks from mechanical engineering, from basic line and point diagrams using GPL and GPM through a 3D frame drawing of machine part derived from a CNC program, at the university of Darmstadt. However, the stuff was developed in a commercial project, so we probably would have needed a hard-to-get permission to offer the code to the DECUS library. At times, I was paid from this project. OTOH, I am certain that there is no commercial interest in this material any more, and I definitely plan on digging out the old save set and continue development. The bad news is that this is another project on a long list, so maybe I need somebody to more efficiently manage my time... I do keep a Tektronix 411x (the one with the larger screen - long time since...) terminal at home, together with a tablet, and hope to add some input capabilities to the library at some later time. Once I got the task to estimate the amount of work needed to support a given terminal (for output only). I was supposed to spend about one hour on looking at the manual, but I came back after about one and a half hour with a working driver for the device. We even had a shell around GUGS that would have a call interface similar to an older library with Benson- and Calcomp-based routines. This way, old plot programs could be adapted to more modern devices by interfacing them to GUGS in the shell instead of re-inventing the application. The basic kludge with the overlay tree, developed on RSX, was to create a separate tree for the library: this made it easy to propose a framework .ODL file that could be readily applied to any user program, and then optimized for either space or speed. >>I have been using VAX/VMS since some V4.n version, around mid-80s, and >>OpenVMS/AXP since 1992, when I had the pleasure to run a field test site >>for V1.5, clustered with VAX/VMS V5.5. One of my projects was writing a >>print symbiont (using the SMB$ interface to the queue manager, not PSM$ >>routines). > > > I used a VAX/VMS system in the early 1990s and discovered all > of the wonderful enhancements. Ever since I have attempted to > figure out how to port some of them back down to RT-11. One > such as the Logical Name List capability is close to completion > as a Path Handler in RT-11. Also similar to the PATH NAME > is DOS. Backporting? - Oh yes, part of my diploma work was a reduced-functionality SMG$ (VMS' Screen ManaGement routines) library for RSX, written in MACRO-11. I use it at home for EVA, the "Electronic Video Archive" (my private video collection is managed on a PDP-11). -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Jan 27 12:44:01 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:11 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030126085038.00b0c040@mail.attbi.com> <3E3571CE.8060509@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <3E357E52.3060104@jetnet.ab.ca> Andreas Freiherr wrote: > What about another famous series: "Leisure Suit Larry"...? If you want adult games the japanese have been doing them for years. Some now you can get even in ENGLISH in AMERICA. :) The only reason they can release King Quest is because they are writing the game from scratch, doing their own art work and game codeing. While it would be nice to have the old DOS games revised, the copywrites are still in effect even if the company making them are long gone. The best thing to is keep the old games on new media archived for now, and the old machines running. Also a gray area is game engines for the newer machines to run old Serria games like king quest if you have orginal game data, for example : http://freesci.linuxgames.com/ Ben. PS.A link for space quest and other games. http://snow.prohosting.com/aquest/links.html From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Jan 27 12:48:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:11 2005 Subject: Ebay: Mark 1 Computer Cards MORE In-Reply-To: References: <3E357480.27F0CF45@rain.org> Message-ID: The picture links now work for me... it's certainly a load of various custom stuff, including one card-mounted servo/gearmotor system... also, in the picture, is a 'rogue' IBM PC-typ I/O card of some kind... and the mounting racks all look like standard Vector cages... possibly a plugboard is there... something is covered in a rat's nest of white wire... lots of doc and rolled up blueprint-looking things. Let the Bids begin! Cheers John From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Jan 27 13:21:00 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:11 2005 Subject: Ebay: Mark 1 Computer Cards In-Reply-To: John Lawson's message of "Mon, 27 Jan 2003 13:30:31 -0500 (EST)" References: <3E357480.27F0CF45@rain.org> Message-ID: <200301271903.h0RJ3FBv082107@daemonweed.reanimators.org> John Lawson wrote: > Even though his picture links were still broken when I checked it out - > from the description text, it is *highly* doubtful that Linksys would be > re-using Harvard Mark I relay cards (555 pounds of them) in it's mid-60s > Boeing 727 Simulator - trainer. Poking round the web last week gave me the idea that these could be from a General Precision GP-4, a computer whose legacy on the web seems to be that it was used in Singer-Link cockpit simulators. -Frank McConnell From Peter.Hicks at POGGS.CO.UK Mon Jan 27 13:58:00 2003 From: Peter.Hicks at POGGS.CO.UK (Peter Hicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:11 2005 Subject: RM Nimbus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E35902A.6090909@POGGS.CO.UK> Witchy wrote: >I've got an AX/2 here in the museum that powers on but I haven't got as far >as connecting a monitor to it yet - I've only had it a couple of years :) >I've also got a few PC1s that have HDs in them so said software might be >installed, though last time I tested them I didn't have a suitable monitor. >Can you remember what spec the monitors used? > > Funnily enough, a PC1 should be winging its way to me "real soon now", complete with monitor and manual. I'll have a look for you. I doubt they're standard VGA monitors. When I get my hands on the manual, I'll mail you off-list and let you know pinouts, if I can find them. The AX/2 takes a 'standard' (for once) VGA monitor. I still have my AX/2's monitor sitting on my firewall here. Its a little dodgy, but it managed to display 800x600 at 256 colours inbetween the time I bought my PC and the time I'd saved enough for a 17" monitor. If you manage to get either the AX/2 or any of the PC1's up and running, I'd be most grateful for anything off their hard drives. Best wishes, Peter. From Peter.Hicks at POGGS.CO.UK Mon Jan 27 14:04:00 2003 From: Peter.Hicks at POGGS.CO.UK (Peter Hicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:11 2005 Subject: RM Nimbus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E35917F.2040406@POGGS.CO.UK> Tony Duell wrote: >Whether an ST506/ST412 interfaced drive uses MFM or RLL encoding depends on the controller, not the drive. RLL wasa method of encoding the data so >as to fit more of it into the same space without increasing maximum number of transistions on the medium. IIRC, though, you needed a higher 'resolution' to do this... > I recall the age old DD/HD debate with the floppies - is there really just one production line, and disks that are 'good enough' get stampted with HD in the top right corner, and the rest are just deemed DD and put in to other boxes. >>Drop me a mail off-list, name your price and we'll take it from there... >> >> >The price would be exssentially free _if I have one you can use_. I have a fair number of them, of different types, so knowing a little more about >what you are looking for would help. > You're a good man, Mr Duell! I've formed a plan of action - if the PC1 I'm getting can read the drive, I'm sorted. If not, I should be in a better position to do some digging, maybe with the help of Witchy on this list. >>but only if you have cables! :) >> >> >The cables are trivial to make up using standard ribbon cable and connectors. I may have some, if not, I would have to charge for any new components I bought. > > Naturally! Watch this space, I'll report back once I have a PC1 cluttering the cramped conditions here! Best wishes, Peter. From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 27 14:28:01 2003 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:11 2005 Subject: Can a TU81+ be connected to a TU80 controller? Message-ID: Yea, the TU80 is Pertec, I know since I own 2 of them... So I can't imagine they're compatible at all.. Don't think they are even the same family of CDC drives... Will J _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From truthanl at oclc.org Mon Jan 27 14:49:00 2003 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:11 2005 Subject: Tamper proof tools Message-ID: <90D12689EF7A0543AB11426D75D6ABC50358F068@oa4-server.oa.oclc.org> http://www.mcmelectronics.com/Home/level_5.jhtml?PRODID=9629&SKUID=8874 Above is a set of tamper proof bits At MCM electronics. Dayton OH USA web-store. SECURITY SD2519 BIT SET 30 PC W/ SCREWDRIVER 30 Piece Security Screwdriver Insert Bit Kit This is a complete set of security bits for all of those difficult service applications, such as IBM PS/2 monitors, cable boxes, telephone equipment and many others. Kit contains: 5/64", 3/32", 7/64", 1/8", 9/64", 5/32" security hex keys; T8, T10, T15, T20, T25, T27, T30, T35, T40 security torx bits; #6, #8, #10 torx set bits; #4, #6, #8, #10 spanners; #1, #2, #3, #4 tri-wings, bit holder, 1/4" socket adaptor, 7-1/2" magnetic handle and plastic carrying case. Larry Truthan Digest subscriber Dublin OH USA From red at bears.org Mon Jan 27 15:26:00 2003 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:11 2005 Subject: Need ECU for Everex Step Megacube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > I have no way of knowing. The board is an EV-18113. Everex wasn't the sort > of company who did that sort of thing anyway. By the way, I remembered I had a tool from my IBM PC Servers that would read an EISA slot and return the board ID for that slot, so at least now I know the filename of the .cfg I'll need. !EVX0101.CFG If I had this file, I could at least try to bodge another vendor's ECU to work until I find the "correct" ECU. everex.com seems to be offline? Hostnames still resolve in that domain, and according to Yahoo it was online as of six months ago. I can't seem to contact anything there now. Pity, as they seem to have had the software available right from the web. ok r. From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Mon Jan 27 15:50:00 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:11 2005 Subject: Overlays, GKS... (Was: Re: New to list) References: <036001c2c417$12af85a0$0200a8c0@cosmo> <3E32B318.907FCC4C@Vishay.com> <3E341CB4.363B3474@compsys.to> <3E357AC4.8020509@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <3E35AA23.8DE1E590@compsys.to> >Andreas Freiherr wrote: > It wasn't a full implementation of the standard. That's why we didn't > officially call it GKS, but GUGS, a German abbreviation for > device-independant graphical system. But it was sufficient to do > assorted tasks from mechanical engineering, from basic line and point > diagrams using GPL and GPM through a 3D frame drawing of machine part > derived from a CNC program, at the university of Darmstadt. However, the > stuff was developed in a commercial project, so we probably would have > needed a hard-to-get permission to offer the code to the DECUS library. > At times, I was paid from this project. Jerome Fine replies: The same with some code I intend to port to V5.03 of RT-11. > OTOH, I am certain that there is no commercial interest in this material > any more, and I definitely plan on digging out the old save set and > continue development. The bad news is that this is another project on a > long list, so maybe I need somebody to more efficiently manage my time... Likewise. I seem to be spending more time working out the details. Also, no one else seems to care about it in any case. > I do keep a Tektronix 411x (the one with the larger screen - long time > since...) terminal at home, together with a tablet, and hope to add some > input capabilities to the library at some later time. > > Once I got the task to estimate the amount of work needed to support a > given terminal (for output only). I was supposed to spend about one hour > on looking at the manual, but I came back after about one and a half > hour with a working driver for the device. > > We even had a shell around GUGS that would have a call interface similar > to an older library with Benson- and Calcomp-based routines. This way, > old plot programs could be adapted to more modern devices by interfacing > them to GUGS in the shell instead of re-inventing the application. > > The basic kludge with the overlay tree, developed on RSX, was to create > a separate tree for the library: this made it easy to propose a > framework .ODL file that could be readily applied to any user program, > and then optimized for either space or speed. Any possibility that it can also be used under RT-11? > > I used a VAX/VMS system in the early 1990s and discovered all > > of the wonderful enhancements. Ever since I have attempted to > > figure out how to port some of them back down to RT-11. One > > such as the Logical Name List capability is close to completion > > as a Path Handler in RT-11. Also similar to the PATH NAME > > is DOS. > Backporting? - Oh yes, part of my diploma work was a > reduced-functionality SMG$ (VMS' Screen ManaGement routines) library for > RSX, written in MACRO-11. I use it at home for EVA, the "Electronic > Video Archive" (my private video collection is managed on a PDP-11). There are probably many such examples. TPU/EVE (I think that is correct as it applies to the VAX screen editor) would be great to have under RT-11. Plus other features as well. The Logical Name List in VMS seems to be implemented right into the operating system. I hope to do the same under RT-11 with the device name PHn: which the user can define as a search list of up to 16 devices. Is anyone on this list interested in: (a) Participating in the design detail (other than Megan Gentry)? (b) Using the features after they are made available other than the few who have already expressed an interest? Thus far, there really has be less than encouragement. Note that my expression of the situation is a complaint, just an observation. Plus I have been saying it for so my years, it is really time to actually do it. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From sml49 at attbi.com Mon Jan 27 15:52:01 2003 From: sml49 at attbi.com (Seth Lewin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:11 2005 Subject: Bernoulli In-Reply-To: <20030127180117.42482.74850.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: Evan R. Pauley wrote: > >> Seth/all, >> >> Actually, he could be looking at a 20MB drive. Iomega produced a dual 20MB >> box called the Bernoulli Box II, which had two 5-1/4" 20 meg drives side by >> > This is the 5-1/4 unit (side by side) apparently with 20MB drives. > The 90meg 5-1/4 cartridges fit in it, but I doubt that they would > work correctly. Also 20meg is quite small any more. Well, I'll > hang onto it until I find some media to go with it, or someone who > needs it. Now that I think about it, the 90 I once used was a single-bay unit. Worked well and didn't seem to mind being knocked around. Worked fine on all Mac SCSI ports w/o difficulty so perhaps it'd do as well on older PC-centric SCSI cards. Seth From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jan 27 16:14:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:11 2005 Subject: RM Nimbus In-Reply-To: <3E35917F.2040406@POGGS.CO.UK> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, Peter Hicks wrote: > I recall the age old DD/HD debate with the floppies - is there really > just one production line, and disks that are 'good enough' get > stampted with HD in the top right corner, and the rest are just deemed > DD and put in to other boxes. Yeah, right. (-: And on Kodak's only assembly line, they take small samples from each roll of film; the ones that turn out to be fastest get marked TRI-X, and the slower ones get marked PLUS-X. :-) DD 5.25" disks are about 300 Oerstedt. HD 5.25" disks are about 600 Oerstedt. DD 3.5" disks are about 600 Oerstedt. HD 3.5" disks are about 750 Oerstedt. Yes, there IS a chemical difference that creates the different coercivity. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 27 17:05:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:11 2005 Subject: Ebay: Mark 1 Computer Cards In-Reply-To: <3E357480.27F0CF45@rain.org> from "Marvin Johnston" at Jan 27, 3 10:03:44 am Message-ID: > The pictures didn't load for me right now, but if these truely are the > Mark 1 cards, it sounds like a neat collection! Did the Harvard Mark 1 (I assume that's what you're refering to) even use 'cards'? I had assumed it was hard-wired metal chassis. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 27 17:07:20 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:11 2005 Subject: RM Nimbus In-Reply-To: <3E35917F.2040406@POGGS.CO.UK> from "Peter Hicks" at Jan 27, 3 08:07:27 pm Message-ID: > Tony Duell wrote: > > >Whether an ST506/ST412 interfaced drive uses MFM or RLL encoding depends on the controller, not the drive. RLL wasa method of encoding the data so > >as to fit more of it into the same space without increasing maximum number of transistions on the medium. IIRC, though, you needed a higher 'resolution' to do this... > > > I recall the age old DD/HD debate with the floppies - is there really Oh, not again (this has been a FAQ on this list many times...) HD disks are different (higher coercivity) to DD/SD disks. Period. That's why HD disks do not work reliably in DD drives. However, it is believable that all disks are made as double-sided and the ones that failed the tests on one side were sold as single-sided... > >The price would be exssentially free _if I have one you can use_. I have a fair number of them, of different types, so knowing a little more about > >what you are looking for would help. > > > You're a good man, Mr Duell! I've formed a plan of action - if the PC1 I don't believe in making a profit from fellow old computer enthusiasts. On the other hand I don't want to make a loss either. If I've got a piece of 'junk' that I don't want (which pretty much limits it to clone PC cards...) then it will be free. If I have to buy components, I charge for them at cost. And if I want the item then it's not for sale at any price. -tony From dholland at woh.rr.com Mon Jan 27 17:12:00 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:11 2005 Subject: RM Nimbus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1043709916.7275.0.camel@crusader> On Mon, 2003-01-27 at 17:18, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, Peter Hicks wrote: > > I recall the age old DD/HD debate with the floppies - is there really > > just one production line, and disks that are 'good enough' get > > stampted with HD in the top right corner, and the rest are just deemed > > DD and put in to other boxes. > > Yeah, right. > (-: And on Kodak's only assembly line, they take small samples from each > roll of film; the ones that turn out to be fastest get marked TRI-X, and > the slower ones get marked PLUS-X. :-) > > DD 5.25" disks are about 300 Oerstedt. > HD 5.25" disks are about 600 Oerstedt. Which may explain why a 5.25" HD disks won't work worth a frap in my Apple II's... David > DD 3.5" disks are about 600 Oerstedt. > HD 3.5" disks are about 750 Oerstedt. > > Yes, there IS a chemical difference that creates the different coercivity. From red at bears.org Mon Jan 27 17:13:23 2003 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:11 2005 Subject: XT-IDE drive lot spotted on eBay Message-ID: Normally I don't do this, but it's in a strange category and I know some folks here have been looking hard for these type of drives in the past. 12 Seagate RARE Hard Drives ST-325X 25MB NEW http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2304712236&category=11209 Ends 3 Feb 10:18a PST Good luck! ok r. From rschaefe at gcfn.org Mon Jan 27 17:15:01 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:11 2005 Subject: '386 chip upgrade? References: Message-ID: <009f01c2c65a$71de1010$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Finnegan" To: Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 8:55 AM Subject: Re: '386 chip upgrade? > On Sun, 26 Jan 2003, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > > > I'm not aiming for a fire-breathing monster, just more geek points when I > > boot AIX-PS/2 and Solaris-mca 2.6 on it. > > God, now I'm envious. I've wanted AIX-PS/2 since I knew it existed, but > hadn't heard of Solaris-mca. Is that regular Solaris for i386, or is it a > special version? Take a look around at http://www.ps-2.org/home/site/axis for answers... > > Pat Bob From rschaefe at gcfn.org Mon Jan 27 17:16:22 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:11 2005 Subject: '386 chip upgrade? References: Message-ID: <00a201c2c65a$929f39a0$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Borsuk" To: Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 9:30 AM Subject: Re: '386 chip upgrade? > Bob, > PLCC or PGA? Errr, good question! I'll have to check here in a few minutes, after the kids are in bed. > > Rob Borsuk Bob From ggs at shiresoft.com Mon Jan 27 17:56:00 2003 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:11 2005 Subject: first photo's In-Reply-To: <3E348ED0.C3E32DDB@rain.org> References: <20030127012724.LVQE17488.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> <3E348ED0.C3E32DDB@rain.org> Message-ID: <1043711232.2175.259.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> On Sun, 2003-01-26 at 17:43, Marvin Johnston wrote: > You might find it useful to reduce the resolution of the shots when > sending them for viewing on the web to about 72 dpi. 2 Mb is a bit large > to justify the download time on a slow connection. > I think the problem is more that the link to the server is slow. I have a fast connection and it's still takes forever to download the 2MB image. 800x600 is more than adaquate and you can provide a link to bigger images if so desired. I actually use 320x240 and a link to 800x600 on my site. -- TTFN - Guy From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jan 27 18:28:01 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:11 2005 Subject: Free stuff In-Reply-To: <001301c2c48d$215d7140$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Philip Pemberton > Sent: 25 January 2003 16:17 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Free stuff > > > Witchy wrote: > > Heh, you've reminded me I've got a single speed Mitsumi drive > > complete with ISA card in an old Apricot XEN - the whole mechanism, > > transport and all, comes out of the case when you hit the eject > > button and the top flips up like a record player! They obviously > > hadn't mastered the 'tray' idea at that point :) > Really? Any chance of a photo? If I can dig it out of the mess of one of the guest rooms, yes, I think I know where it is :) I've just replied to one of your c.s.a.h posts too. Remind me by mail sometime... -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jan 27 18:30:13 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:11 2005 Subject: Decserver 700-16 firmware In-Reply-To: <200301251426.h0PEQUcf018170@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Eric Dittman > Sent: 25 January 2003 14:27 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Decserver 700-16 firmware > > > > Depending on the amount of flash RAM in those beasties you can > either use > > mneng1.sys or mneng2.sys, both of which I can have available on > a website in > > a few minutes. Got to fire one of my VAXen up today for some > DCL hacking for > > an old customer so I'll kill 2 birds with one stone. If I could > lay my hands > > on one of my missing CD folders I've also got the DNAS 2.2 CD > which contains > > all of the above and more. > > The DECserver 700 software is WWENG*. MNENG* is for the > DECserver 90M. Dammit, I was thinking that as I was typing it.....12 weeks unemployment is really rotting my brain :( The DNAS 2.2 stuff still stands though. -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jan 27 18:31:36 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:11 2005 Subject: Free stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: 25 January 2003 18:50 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Free stuff > > > > Heh, you've reminded me I've got a single speed Mitsumi drive > complete with > > ISA card in an old Apricot XEN - the whole mechanism, transport and all, > > comes out of the case when you hit the eject button and the top flips up > > like a record player! They obviously hadn't mastered the 'tray' > idea at that > > point :) > > Those were very common about 5 years ago... I guess there are plenty > still around. 5 years ago? I think not :) In 1998 severalteen speed IDE CDs were the norm, not single speed with their own Mitsumi ISA card.....I was indoctrinated (against my will) into the PC world in 1996....tray loading CDs were completely the norm - Mitsumi style drives had died a death many years before.......my gf was working in IT then and she kept some of the old style interface cards from 1990 or thereabouts. Good job I kept 'em 'cos they fit in with this group now :) -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From vance at neurotica.com Mon Jan 27 18:33:03 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:11 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030126085038.00b0c040@mail.attbi.com> Message-ID: You know there was a Sierra VGA remake of KQ1, right? Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 26 Jan 2003, Ed Chapel wrote: > Remember the early Kings Quest series of adventure games? > KQ1 has been remade for VGA graphics by a group called Tierra Entertainment. > They are doing a terrific job of rebuilding the games. Same great gameplay. > The remade version is a free download and works fine in Windows. > > KQ1 site: http://www.qknowledge.net/royalquest/KQ1index.htm > Tierra main site: http://www.qknowledge.net/royalquest/index.html > > Ed > Vancouver, WA > From root at ns2.ezwind.net Mon Jan 27 18:35:48 2003 From: root at ns2.ezwind.net (Charlie Root) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:11 2005 Subject: A cool vintage hardware hack. In-Reply-To: <3E34B360.1030308@tiac.net> Message-ID: <200301270533.h0R5XJF70541@ns2.ezwind.net> no, the 7906H CAN hook up to a 13037, IF the model 13037 disc subsystem box you have, happens to have the HP-IB option card in it! I have several of these, and I'm quite sure the 7906H can hook up to a 12821A controller, as well. Example: I have a 13037 pca card, going to a 13037 disc controller subsystem, which has both 7905 ICD drives on it, a 7906D, AND a 7906H. Not a lot of the 13037 disc subsystems have the HP-IB option. I was lucky enough to acquire a couple that do. So, the 7906H can go to either. Regards, Jay West (Just look at the back of the 13037 disc subsystem. If it ALSO has an obvious HP-IB connector on the back you have the optional HP-IB upgrade) From p.dalliessi at paradise.net.nz Mon Jan 27 18:37:34 2003 From: p.dalliessi at paradise.net.nz (P.Dalliessi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:11 2005 Subject: TIL306 displays Message-ID: <002701c2c5e1$4dd65200$1c514fcb@peterdal> Hello Toth. I saw your reference to TIL displays at another site, and you indicated you may have some. Actually I am lookig for 4 pces TIL306 and 5 pces TIL308 displays. Would you be able to help please? Thank you in anticipation. Peter J. Dalliessi. New Zealand. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030127/ceb33e5a/attachment.html From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Jan 27 18:39:04 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:11 2005 Subject: Odd posting order on cctech In-Reply-To: <1043629910.2175.198.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Guy Sotomayor > Sent: 27 January 2003 01:12 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Odd posting order on cctech > > > of my other mails are affected. > > > > Anyone else get the same problem? > > > > Yes and I'm here in San Jose, California. Messages dribble in one or > two at a time and then I'll get 50-100 all at once from the day before. Phew - nice to know it's not just me then :) -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From ombra.nl at planet.nl Mon Jan 27 18:40:39 2003 From: ombra.nl at planet.nl (ombra.nl@planet.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:11 2005 Subject: Odd posting order on cctech Message-ID: <3E35250E.32418.10FD5A2@localhost> Same problem here & I'm in the Hague using adsl with planet. The funny order I can understand with different time zones but why 85 all at once? Sometimes the original post comes long after all the replies. Mostly they all arrive in my evening but not always. M.R. Hoare From vance at neurotica.com Mon Jan 27 18:45:56 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:11 2005 Subject: '386 chip upgrade? In-Reply-To: <000001c2c5f7$377c4440$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: Sure. It's the Cyrix 486DRx^2. A 486 that runs in a 386 socket. You can find one around if you look hard enough. They are explicitly supported in the P70, but I don't know if they have a cache enabler that will work under AIX/2. Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 26 Jan 2003, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > I've got an old P70 (IBM MCA luggable w/ plasma display) with a '386DX20 > that I'm playing around with. Does anyone know if there's a drop-in > replacement for the '386DX? I'm pretty constrained space-wise, no room for > an interposer and barely room for a heatsink should one prove necessary. > I'm not aiming for a fire-breathing monster, just more geek points when I > boot AIX-PS/2 and Solaris-mca 2.6 on it. > > Thanks! > > Bob > From vance at neurotica.com Mon Jan 27 18:48:52 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: '386 chip upgrade? In-Reply-To: <3E34C4B4.16073.A06BCF@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, Lawrence Walker wrote: > To my knowledge most of the 486SLC chips work with > 386 MCA. I don't have a P70 so I can't say for sure. > > IBM 486DLC2 > IBM Blue Lightning ? These are true 486's and therefore require 486 sockets. To use them in a 386 board, you need a giant proprietary interposer. Fine when you have plenty of room, like in a Mod 80 tower, but not so good in the P70. > Kingston 486/SX Now! 25Mhz Not familiar. > Cyrix 486Drx2 (AKA DRUsup2) Works just fine. > TI486SLC > Evergreen? I think these might be too big. Peace... Sridhar From c.morris at townsqr.com Mon Jan 27 18:50:51 2003 From: c.morris at townsqr.com (Dr. Charles E. Morris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: PDP-8: anyone tried NVRAM simulation of hard drives? Message-ID: <012401c2c643$3a3d9ca0$0801a8c0@DrOccMed> Has anyone had interfaced nonvolatile RAM to a PDP-8 to simulate an original hard drive? The DF32 fully expanded with four disks was only 256k x 12... Dallas Semi makes battery-backed NVRAM in a variety of sizes. Two DS1258 (each 128k x 16) would make for a very simple interface that would fit on a single card (or at most a double card). Packing the 12-bit words would complicate the interface a little but lower the cost of the NVRAMs. Using an old 3.5 or 5.25 inch hard drive would be very cheap per meg but would also require development of a controller (like the 8051 mentioned recently as an interface to an HP computer). I don't think there were any original drives greater than 1 Mword available, so larger ones would require nonstandard code to support them anyway. Any thoughts? -Charles From rojas_gonzalo at hotmail.com Mon Jan 27 18:52:45 2003 From: rojas_gonzalo at hotmail.com (Gonzalo Rojas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: Casio CFX-200 Message-ID: Hi: I have a perfectly functional (and I am using all days) Casio CFX-200 Scientific Calculator Watch... But, I am having a problem with it: due to the use of the clock, the lateral buttons was deteriorated and they have sharp borders... And that sharp buttons damage the cuff of my shirts... The local Casio Technical Support (Santiago, Chile) tolds me that it isn't exist replacement for the buttons... Do you know where can I get replacement buttons for my CFX-200 ?... or a replacement case ?... or how I can fix them ?... Best regards, and thanks in advance... Gonzalo Rojas _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jan 27 18:56:11 2003 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: Seeking LaserJet IIISi I/O card Message-ID: <200301280009.QAA28314@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I've seen these come up about once every month or so in eBay. I bought a duplexer for my 3si and an envelope feeder, on eBay. You just need to keep a search going, every few days. I'm sure you'll find one. I'd originally bought a parallel/serial card when I bought mine, surplus, because of the same problem. At the time, I bought it from a printer repair store. It cost almost $200. Later ( about 2 years ) the card failed. I located one on eBay for about $25, I was back on the air. Dwight >From: Ethan Dicks > > >I have asked in the past about a replacement card for my HP LJ-IIID >with little success (they are apparently somewhat rare). Several >people offered me ones that did not physically fit. Well now, I >have a *newer* old HP printer, an HP LJ-IIISi that takes the square >interface cards with the white/grey 3-row connector. Unfortunately, >the printer I got from OSU surplus (which seems to print just fine) >only has this truely ancient C2059A integral print server - no serial >or parallel, Novell only. :-( Worse, the firmware is particularly >obsolete and deprecated by HP. > >So... if anyone has a spare interface card, I'm interested. Two, in >fact; one for me and one for a friend who needs to hook another IIISi >to his OS X Mac. The printer is on-topic (mine was manufactured in 1991) >at least. > >Let me know cost/part numbers/etc off-list. > >Thanks, > >-ethan From jss at subatomix.com Mon Jan 27 18:58:25 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: Test post, please ignore Message-ID: <94304229.20030127182302@subatomix.com> Testing a feature. Please ignore. -- Jeffrey Sharp [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/msword which had a name of MarketDataDeveloper.doc] From rschaefe at gcfn.org Mon Jan 27 19:00:58 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: '386 chip upgrade? References: Message-ID: <00bd01c2c667$ad034900$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Borsuk" To: Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 9:30 AM Subject: Re: '386 chip upgrade? > Bob, > PLCC or PGA? PGA. I was pretty sure it was, but the more I thought about it the less certain I became... :/ I think I'm going to solder a socket in under the oscillator too. I'm not sure how much slack there is in the planar, but the box's already been butchered, so I don't feel like I'm damaging an irreplacable machine by 3733+3 0v3rc!0ck3r mods. On second look, maybe I won't. It looks like about a day of disassembly to pull the planar! > > Rob Borsuk Bob From lemay at cs.umn.edu Mon Jan 27 19:02:31 2003 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: PDP-8: anyone tried NVRAM simulation of hard drives? In-Reply-To: <012401c2c643$3a3d9ca0$0801a8c0@DrOccMed> Message-ID: <200301280058.SAA28255@caesar.cs.umn.edu> My thoughts on the subject have always been that if a hard drive replacement is designed in such a manner that it works on a REAL PDP 8, omnibus or posibus, I'll be first in line to order some circuit boards. -Lawrence LeMay > Has anyone had interfaced nonvolatile RAM to a PDP-8 to simulate an original > hard drive? The DF32 fully expanded with four disks was only 256k x 12... > Dallas Semi makes battery-backed NVRAM in a variety of sizes. Two DS1258 > (each 128k x 16) would make for a very simple interface that would fit on a > single card (or at most a double card). Packing the 12-bit words would > complicate the interface a little but lower the cost of the NVRAMs. > > Using an old 3.5 or 5.25 inch hard drive would be very cheap per meg but > would also require development of a controller (like the 8051 mentioned > recently as an interface to an HP computer). I don't think there were any > original drives greater than 1 Mword available, so larger ones would require > nonstandard code to support them anyway. > > Any thoughts? > -Charles From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Mon Jan 27 19:04:08 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: Odd posting order on cctech Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C9B8@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > From: ombra.nl@planet.nl [mailto:ombra.nl@planet.nl] > > Same problem here & I'm in the Hague using adsl with planet. The > funny order I can understand with different time zones but why 85 all > at once? Sometimes the original post comes long after all the > replies. Mostly they all arrive in my evening but not always. Same here, mostly between 10pm - 07am Amsterdam time... --f From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jan 27 19:16:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: Casio CFX-200 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, Gonzalo Rojas wrote: > I have a perfectly functional (and I am using all days) Casio CFX-200 > Scientific Calculator Watch... But, I am having a problem with it: due to > ... Do you know where can I get replacement > buttons for my CFX-200 ?... or a replacement case ?... or how I can fix them > ?... Prob'ly more than you wanted to pay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2609175473 How does it compare with the CFX-40 and CFX-400? From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Jan 27 19:22:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: A cool vintage hardware hack. In-Reply-To: <200301270533.h0R5XJF70541@ns2.ezwind.net> References: <3E34B360.1030308@tiac.net> <200301270533.h0R5XJF70541@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <3243.4.20.168.110.1043717141.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Jay wrote: > Example: I have a 13037 pca card, going to a 13037 disc controller > subsystem, which has both 7905 ICD drives on it, a 7906D, AND a 7906H. Can the computer distinguish a 7906H attached to the 13037 box via HPIB from an 7906D attached to the 13037 box by the "traditional" interface? I'd like to think that because the 13037 box is an "intelligent" controller, they should look the same to the host. This would be convenient for me, since it should be fairly easy to write a program for a PC with an HPIB card to emulate a 7906H. If anyone has any 7906H technical documentation, that is. I suppose the 7906H predates the Amigo, CS/80, and SS/80 specs, and probably had some earlier and less sophisticated command set. From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 27 20:41:01 2003 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: PDP-8: anyone tried NVRAM simulation of hard drives? Message-ID: Omnibus or Posibus? Why not Negibus? Neither Omnibus nor Posibus would help me on my 8/i, since mine is Negibus... An SSD would be a Very Cool Thing to have though... Especially since it really wouldn't have to be very large in terms of capacity.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Jan 27 21:05:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: PDP-8: anyone tried NVRAM simulation of hard drives? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3444.4.20.168.110.1043723295.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Will J wrote: > Omnibus or Posibus? Why not Negibus? Neither Omnibus nor Posibus would > help me on my 8/i, since mine is Negibus... One problem with building either posibus or negibus devices is that DEC connector blocks seem to be made of unobtanium these days. At one time there were some made by other vendors, which were generally inferior to the DEC ones, but it doesn't appear that any are available now. Building an Omnibus card doesn't require any DEC connector blocks, making it somewhat easier. It would be nice to find a source of the DEC plastic module handles, and the metal stiffener/ejector handles used on DEC hex-height modules. But I'm not holding my breath for those, either. From fauradon at frontiernet.net Mon Jan 27 21:17:00 2003 From: fauradon at frontiernet.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: Tamper proof tools References: <90D12689EF7A0543AB11426D75D6ABC50358F068@oa4-server.oa.oclc.org> Message-ID: <003a01c2c68c$daf97da0$0264640a@auradon.com> Thank you for the answer, I have that set and unfortunately there is no bit that fits those weird screws. It looks like a hex nut driver would work on those star shaped screws but I can't find my set at the moment. I'm still looking for the proper tool though Francois Minnesota ----- Original Message ----- From: "Truthan,Larry" To: Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 12:52 PM Subject: Tamper proof tools > http://www.mcmelectronics.com/Home/level_5.jhtml?PRODID=9629&SKUID=8874 > > Above is a set of tamper proof bits At MCM electronics. Dayton OH USA > web-store. > > SECURITY SD2519 BIT SET 30 PC W/ SCREWDRIVER > > 30 Piece Security Screwdriver Insert Bit Kit > This is a complete set of security bits for all of those difficult service > applications, such as IBM PS/2 monitors, cable boxes, telephone equipment > and many others. > Kit contains: 5/64", 3/32", 7/64", 1/8", 9/64", 5/32" security hex keys; T8, > T10, T15, T20, T25, T27, T30, T35, T40 security torx bits; #6, #8, #10 torx > set bits; #4, #6, #8, #10 spanners; #1, #2, #3, #4 tri-wings, bit holder, > 1/4" socket adaptor, 7-1/2" magnetic handle and plastic carrying case. > > > Larry Truthan > Digest subscriber > Dublin OH USA From fauradon at frontiernet.net Mon Jan 27 21:20:01 2003 From: fauradon at frontiernet.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: Taper proof tools. References: <200301270247.UAA14421@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <004501c2c68d$3a89e840$0264640a@auradon.com> Duh, why didn't I think of that! Of course the first google result had exactly what I needed. http://www.mvipro.com/dgfk.html Too expensive but it's there:) Thank you Francois Minnesota ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence LeMay" To: Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 6:47 PM Subject: Re: Taper proof tools. > Do a google search for 'security screwdriver', or 'security screwdriver > sega'. Once you can determine the proper type, you can search for just > that screwdriver instead of buying an expensive set. > > -Lawrence LeMay > > > Hi all, > > I am looking for one of those tamper proof tool for the sega nomad. It is > > basically the same shape as the screws for the game cartridges on the > > genesis but it is so far recessed (3/4 in) that the pliers trick will not > > work. > > Anyone know of a source for such tool? > > Thank you > > Francois From fauradon at frontiernet.net Mon Jan 27 21:23:00 2003 From: fauradon at frontiernet.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: 5110 trade update (last one) Message-ID: <005101c2c68d$a9a75780$0264640a@auradon.com> Hi all, By now I have sent all interested parties a final email requesting confirmation of their earlier offer, if you were interested and have not received an email from me, please sen me one quick because I'll be closing the shop soon (figuratively) Thank you for your attention Francois Minnesota From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Mon Jan 27 21:25:01 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: Removing Duct Tape Residue Message-ID: <1043724505.26901.7.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> While out in Idaho picking up a PDP-11/83 I also managed to pick up a working LA-100 at a government surplus place. It had a piece of duct tape stuck to the clear plastic cover with the word "Spare" written on it. Anyone know of a good way to remove the remaining duct tape residue from the cover? -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From dittman at dittman.net Mon Jan 27 21:27:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: Decserver 700-16 firmware In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Jan 26, 2003 11:44:50 PM Message-ID: <200301280328.h0S3SVFK022873@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Dammit, I was thinking that as I was typing it.....12 weeks unemployment is > really rotting my brain :( The DNAS 2.2 stuff still stands though. I'd be interested in an ISO of the CD. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From cube1 at charter.net Mon Jan 27 21:49:01 2003 From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: Free PDP-11 In-Reply-To: <200301101325.IAA01137@parse.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030127211600.039b3f18@cirithi> I might be interested, if it isn't already spoken for -- and I live in Madison. What does it have on it? Jay At 08:25 AM 1/10/2003 -0500, Robert Krten wrote: >Saw this on the newsgroups; in case anyone missed it: > > > > Steve Cayford at TDS.NET Internet Services > www.tds.net > > > > Newsgroups: uwisc.forsale,wi.madison.forsale > > > > Hi. We've got a PDP-11/23 Plus to get rid of. It's free to whoever would > > like to come pick it up at Union Cab in Madison. > > > > Contact me by e-mail if you're interested. > >Cheers, >-RK > >-- >Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! >Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. >Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1@charter.net From cube1 at charter.net Mon Jan 27 21:50:55 2003 From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: How many PDP-12's are there now? In-Reply-To: <200301150503.AAA08628@parse.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030127212058.02087e90@cirithi> My PDP-12 is alive and well, and thanks to John Bardyniak, it actually ran its plotter test last month. Jay Jaeger http://webpages.charter.net/thecomputercollection/pdp8-12/index.htm At 12:03 AM 1/15/2003 -0500, Robert Krten wrote: >So... > >all this discussion about PDP-12's has got me curious. > >How many of them are there in existence? > >It would certainly be interesting to get a list of machines and at >least city locations -- I'll start the list: > > Ottawa/ON/Canada (mine) > Roswell/GA/USA > >If anyone wants to send me info, I'll volunteer to collect and put it >up on my website (I won't put email addresses or other incriminating >evidence unless you want me to :-)). > >The other interesting thing that this discussion begs is the topic of >(borrowed term) "biomagnification". It's from the environmental field, >and basically relates to how bigger animals get more than their "fair" >share of poisons because they eat smaller animals which have already >concentrated the poisons in their systems. I've borrowed the term because >lately what I've been thinking about is the accumulated collections of >people who are no longer interested in collecting -- in this case, >instead of just getting one or two machines at a time, you tend to >get "clusters" of machines -- hence "biomagnification" :-) > >So... any collectors out there getting rid of PDP stuff? :-) > >Cheers, >-RK > >-- >Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! >Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. >Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1@charter.net From rborsuk at colourfull.com Mon Jan 27 21:54:01 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: '386 chip upgrade? In-Reply-To: <00bd01c2c667$ad034900$7d00a8c0@george> Message-ID: <6516A98F-3274-11D7-9577-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Bob, Had to ask. I had somewhere a 386 to 486 upgrade around but it's plcc. Thought I could help Rob On Monday, January 27, 2003, at 07:53 PM, Robert F. Schaefer wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Borsuk" > To: > Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 9:30 AM > Subject: Re: '386 chip upgrade? > > >> Bob, >> PLCC or PGA? > > PGA. I was pretty sure it was, but the more I thought about it the > less > certain I became... :/ I think I'm going to solder a socket in under > the > oscillator too. I'm not sure how much slack there is in the planar, > but the > box's already been butchered, so I don't feel like I'm damaging an > irreplacable machine by 3733+3 0v3rc!0ck3r mods. On second look, > maybe I > won't. It looks like about a day of disassembly to pull the planar! > >> >> Rob Borsuk > > Bob From rborsuk at colourfull.com Mon Jan 27 22:08:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: IRIX distro (was Re: cool find.) In-Reply-To: <1043682801.13173.11.camel@crusader> Message-ID: <92213BBD-3276-11D7-9577-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> David, Sorry, I meant 5.3 . I don't have the 6.2 dist. yet. Hey , I have a second GE8 if your up for a trade. I can send my want list over (not all sgi - I'm after a Commodore Superpet too) :) . Sorry, no skins. I only have mine which aren't in the greatest of shape (damaged in shipping - darn FedEx). Probably should take it off list if your interested in the GE8. Rob rborsuk@colourfull.com http://www.colourfull.com Michigan, USA ps. I'll probably finish my VGX ( is that right? I don't remember - I would have to look) graphics board set first, only one to go. On Monday, January 27, 2003, at 10:53 AM, David Holland wrote: > Howdy, > > Now I've some competition to find a elusive RE boardset. (drat) :-) > > Actually, what I'd really like to find is a DG2/GE8 and a couple of > RM5's so I can have more texture memory, but I'll "settle" for a > generic > RE w/ RM4's. :-) > > I also need a set red skins, but eh.. > > Any particular reason for 5.2? W/ a full 256Mb of memory I didn't > think > 6.2 would be horrific performance.. > > David > > > On Sun, 2003-01-26 at 21:29, Robert Borsuk wrote: >> David, >> Just wanted to mention that I've just joined the list and it's >> great >> to see a fellow Crimson owner. I'm still trying to find a complete >> reality engine for mine. I just had it out today. I'm wanting to put >> Irix 5.2 on it. >> >> Rob >> Michigan, USA >> On Sunday, January 26, 2003, at 10:13 AM, David Holland wrote: >> >>> If its a Crimson era machine, I've 6.2.(something) images sitting >>> around >>> here on disk. I've not burned them to CD to see if they'll boot >>> yet though.. >>> >>> (Yes, my Crimson project is a really really slow thing.) >>> >>> David >>> >>> On Sun, 2003-01-26 at 00:35, Ethan Dicks wrote: >>>> >>>> --- Lawrence LeMay wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I just got myself an Indigo2 R8000. >>>>>> and the cool thing is I actually got a copy of IRIX 6.5 with it, I >>>>>> now >>>>>> have IRIX media Yay! >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I wasnt aware Irix CD's were at all rare. >>>> >>>> Me neither. In fact, I could use a set for a friend in Germany. >>>> I'll >>>> have to find out precisely what he's after, but I would initially >>>> think >>>> it's for something in the Indy/Indigo class (not like a Crimson or >>>> Onyx) >>>> and as new as feasible. >>>> >>>> Can anyone help? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> -ethan From dbwood at kc.rr.com Mon Jan 27 22:31:00 2003 From: dbwood at kc.rr.com (Douglas Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: Removing Duct Tape Residue References: <1043724505.26901.7.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <1fd601c2c686$5cc61d40$6401a8c0@kc.rr.com> Try "Goo Gone" or "Goof Off". Douglas Wood Software Engineer dbwood@kc.rr.com ICQ#: 143841506 Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC http://epicis.piclist.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher McNabb" To: Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 9:28 PM Subject: Removing Duct Tape Residue > While out in Idaho picking up a PDP-11/83 I also managed to pick up a > working LA-100 at a government surplus place. It had a piece of duct > tape stuck to the clear plastic cover with the word "Spare" written on > it. Anyone know of a good way to remove the remaining duct tape residue > from the cover? > > -- > Christopher L McNabb > Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net > Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N > GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Mon Jan 27 22:45:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: Removing Duct Tape Residue In-Reply-To: <1043724505.26901.7.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <000501c2c688$95166540$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Goo Gone would probably be effective. Just make sure that it doesn't discolor the plastic before you slather it all over the residue. Erik -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Christopher McNabb Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 7:28 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Removing Duct Tape Residue While out in Idaho picking up a PDP-11/83 I also managed to pick up a working LA-100 at a government surplus place. It had a piece of duct tape stuck to the clear plastic cover with the word "Spare" written on it. Anyone know of a good way to remove the remaining duct tape residue from the cover? -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From n8uhn at yahoo.com Mon Jan 27 23:42:00 2003 From: n8uhn at yahoo.com (Bill Allen Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: ibm sys/36 5360 basic needed Message-ID: <20030128054521.91878.qmail@web40704.mail.yahoo.com> Ive always wondered about the 5363 the pc size'd 36. the pc support manual does mention it. the models are 5360 - large sys/36, 5362 - small sys/36, 5551 small model available only in japan and the 5363 pc sized sys/36. the pc support calls the 5363 a "system console". as far a spp is concerned, the 5363 uses 5 1/4 diskettes and the ssp on it is for the 5363 only. i'm not sure about the 8 in versions of 36 ssp. sorry i have no 5 1/4 in ssp diskettes. i don't think the 8 in, 5360 languages or office products pgms will even work with the 5363, they will run on the 5362. i have the same 5360 unit that you have - do you have the service manuals for it? you may want to hang on to the 5360 - you can do more with it and the 8 in diskettes are more commom to find. btw - do a search for 5363 or sys/36 and you should find a page that features a 5363 on it you may want to email him about the diskettes. are the tape drives on your 5360 the r2r or cart drives? Bill Message: 14 Subject: Re: ibm sys/36 5360 basic needed To: cctalk@classiccmp.org From: "Colin Eby" Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 13:25:51 -0500 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Bill -- I have most of the System/36 stuff... except the languages, sigh. You wouldn't happen to have any of the SSP on 5.25" would you. I have a 5363 I've never successfully IPL'd . And while I'm turning your request for assistance on its head... you wouldn't happen to want a 5360 would you? I have one in need of a good home. I don't even have a garage so I'm paying storage for the beast (2 tape drives, 2 printers, expanded main cabinet with additional disk platters and the magazine version of the 8" floppy). Maybe I can be more helpful if you have other S/36 needs in future. I have a lot of the books and even a few already scanned to PDF. While I'm begging, I don't suppose anyone out there has the Office suite for S/36, or any interesting applications? Or maybe someone wants to be free of a 5364 (a little easier on the electric bills than the 63, 62 or 60). My systems only have SSP, and I have a perverse desire to get some use out of them. -Colin From n8uhn at yahoo.com Tue Jan 28 00:00:00 2003 From: n8uhn at yahoo.com (Bill Allen Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: System/36 whining and begging... Message-ID: <20030128060350.16580.qmail@web40702.mail.yahoo.com> Another and perhaps the simplest way to archive sys34 or 36 pgms to diskette or cd is to use the 5250 pc emulator card or a clone card and the pc support pgms on the pc and sys/36. the emulator turns a pc xt or at into a 5251 terminal and does the ebcdic/ascii conversion for pc to 36 printer files. there are many different versions of the emulator cards still out there some will even run in windows. i even saw a pcmcia version for a laptop. you can save disk or diskette - library's,files and members on the pc from the 36 then transfer the diskette to a windows machine if needed and put it on cd. useing the same process one could even send a copy of sys/36 pgms via email. the labels and owner id must match the pgm distrubition diskettes label if copying a 8 diskette. then a person could do the reverse to get the files back on the 36. i have the emulator card but have not played with the copy to pc feature yet i got all this info from the pc support 36 manual. i am not sure how much the ibm standards differ from the shugart or other standards. ibm had the 1d and 2d diskettes and both had a low and hi density format (format 1 or 2). do keep us posted about which process you end up useing as i want to archive all of my fresh 8 in copies also. i hope the non ascii data of sys3x data (ebcdic) dosn't go down to the binary level. Bill Message: 17 Subject: System/36 whining and begging... To: cctalk@classiccmp.org From: "Colin Eby" Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 13:44:09 -0500 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Folks -- Thought I'd continue my unreasonable begging from the previous note back to Bill. I'd like to take on a little project of creating archival images of S/36 media. I've made a duplicate of most of what I own on fresher 8" stock. But I don't think that's a long term strategy for avoiding the inevitable ravages of media corruption. What I had in mind was something like a 'dd' dump of each disk that could be reloaded to fresh 8" media when required. I haven't given this too much thought so bear with me.... I'm working on a list of questions and puzzles to accomplish this goal.The first obvious problem is media to hardware integration. If memory serves, I read somewhere that IBM used an oddball disk format (Sellam, you might know this). 8" Shuggart drives come on the market from time to time but, would they, using low level drivers, be able to make a physical block by block copy of IBM S/36 disk data? The second problem is hardware to hardware integration. Has anyone had luck integrating a 8" drive with a more recent machine? And what are the alternatives? I presume this could be done on DEC hardware and then sent to any open platform over a network connection. Has anyone gotten an 8" floppy operating under an Intel based Linux host. That would seem the obvious media transfer station because of the wide range of hardware compatibility. Once these first two steps are done, any basic disk utility ought to make short work of creating binary dumps. An alternative approach might be to copy the disks directly on the System/36 host using platform native tools then sending the file across some form of network connection. The problem is I haven't a clue how that would need to be done. I've never read any low level API for S/36 as a platform. IBM seems to have kept anything harware layer proprietary. Any and all thoughts welcome. Thanks, -Colin ceby2@csc.com Senior Consultant, National Performance Engineeering Practice CSC Consulting. From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 28 00:19:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: Tamper proof tools In-Reply-To: <003a01c2c68c$daf97da0$0264640a@auradon.com> References: <90D12689EF7A0543AB11426D75D6ABC50358F068@oa4-server.oa.oclc.org> <003a01c2c68c$daf97da0$0264640a@auradon.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, Sue & Francois wrote: > Thank you for the answer, > I have that set and unfortunately there is no bit that fits those weird > screws. It looks like a hex nut driver would work on those star shaped > screws but I can't find my set at the moment. I'm still looking for the > proper tool though I believe what you are looking for is called an 'External linehead' bit. Linehead fasteners, are extremely popular in Japan, but US made and imported tools are available. There are several varieties and sizes, such as internal and external line head. The external type seems to be the type most commonly used for video game type items. Jensen tools stocks several varieties of the linehead type bits. They can be found here: http://www.jensentools.com/product/group.asp?parent_id=53600 Google turned up photos of various bits here: http://www.e-sci.com/jensen/1/26/170/4301.html In general, those bits will be a bit pricey, since they are specialty bits and are usually imported. -Toth From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 28 00:21:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: Back in the game Message-ID: <20030128062312.51341.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> After a *very* brief unemployment, I started at a new job today - as an OpenVMS Administrator, if you can believe it. One of the more surprising moments during the interview process was when I was mentioning that I had a VAX 8200 and a DEC 4000 in my basement, and the boss said, "of course you do - all you VMS guys run that stuff at home." I've gotten lots of milage from running older/smaller version of Sun/DEC/etc boxes, but I'd never run across someone in an interview who *expected* it. Now back to the side of the table with money, but no time... -ethan From dittman at dittman.net Tue Jan 28 00:29:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: Back in the game In-Reply-To: <20030128062312.51341.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jan 27, 2003 10:23:12 PM Message-ID: <200301280631.h0S6Vp1f023980@narnia.int.dittman.net> > After a *very* brief unemployment, I started at a new job today - as an > OpenVMS Administrator, if you can believe it... What's so unbelieveable about that? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 28 00:30:30 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: Spectrum Holobyte Tetris In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, Tillman, Edward wrote: > I thought I'd never hear that company's name again. I've been looking > feverishly, for about 3 years, for a copy of Spectrum Holobyte's > "Blockout!" The base game is a series of walls the player needs to take > down by grouping 3 or more like blocks or symbols. It also contains > bombs, missiles, and other cute destructive devices. It was a simple > game, made to run in DOS, and I'd (or my wife would!) just about die for > a copy of it. Ours died when my DOS-based BBS fried back in '97... Might this be the software you are looking for? http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?name=Blockout Note that the above software was actually made by a company called California Dreams, not Spectrum Holobyte. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jan 28 00:41:01 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: Need ECU for Everex Step Megacube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > > > I have no way of knowing. The board is an EV-18113. Everex wasn't the > > sort of company who did that sort of thing anyway. That certainly sounds like a custom board. Everex did often use custom boards, even in some of their AT class systems. > everex.com seems to be offline? Hostnames still resolve in that domain, > and according to Yahoo it was online as of six months ago. I can't seem > to contact anything there now. Pity, as they seem to have had the > software available right from the web. IIRC, Everex has been more or less out of business for quite some time. For some reason, 1997-1998 seems to come to mind. Have you tried an internic whois on the domain to find contact info? I have a number of Everex systems and parts stored away currently. I remember having difficulties finding documentation and drivers for certain items years ago. -Toth From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Jan 28 00:43:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: Back in the game In-Reply-To: <20030128062312.51341.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > After a *very* brief unemployment, I started at a new job today - as an > OpenVMS Administrator, if you can believe it. Congratulations! I hope the new gig works out well for you. I also hope you get to work on some VAXen running OpenVMS and not just those new-fangled Alphas. -brian. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Jan 28 01:07:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: 5110 trade update (last one) In-Reply-To: <005101c2c68d$a9a75780$0264640a@auradon.com> Message-ID: <002601c2c69c$505ff920$653bcd18@D73KSM11> Hi guys: Offer was $600 plus shipping. Still stands. -W > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Sue & Francois > Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 9:25 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: 5110 trade update (last one) > > > Hi all, > By now I have sent all interested parties a final email > requesting confirmation of their earlier offer, if you were > interested and have not received an email from me, please sen > me one quick because I'll be closing the shop soon > (figuratively) Thank you for your attention Francois Minnesota From kurtk7 at visi.com Tue Jan 28 01:48:00 2003 From: kurtk7 at visi.com (Kurtk7) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: Seeking manual for the Jupiter 4000 Message-ID: <001301c2c6a2$0e9d8100$0200000a@p166mmx> I hate to belabor the request, but I really need a manual to the Jupiter 4000. Does anyone have any suggestions, I would really appreciate any help in locating a copy. Thanks Kurt From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jan 28 02:39:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: Back in the game In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Back in the game" (Jan 27, 22:23) References: <20030128062312.51341.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10301280825.ZM6553@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 27, 22:23, Ethan Dicks wrote: > After a *very* brief unemployment, I started at a new job today - as an > OpenVMS Administrator Congratulations! > Now back to the side of the table with money, but no time... :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jan 28 02:40:56 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: Tamper proof tools In-Reply-To: Tothwolf "Re: Tamper proof tools" (Jan 28, 0:30) References: <90D12689EF7A0543AB11426D75D6ABC50358F068@oa4-server.oa.oclc.org> <003a01c2c68c$daf97da0$0264640a@auradon.com> Message-ID: <10301280823.ZM6550@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 28, 0:30, Tothwolf wrote: > On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, Sue & Francois wrote: > > > Thank you for the answer, > > I have that set and unfortunately there is no bit that fits those weird > > screws. It looks like a hex nut driver would work on those star shaped > > screws but I can't find my set at the moment. I'm still looking for the > > proper tool though > > I believe what you are looking for is called an 'External linehead' bit. > Linehead fasteners, are extremely popular in Japan, but US made and > imported tools are available. Another good place to see drawings of screw head types is http://www.lara.com/reviews/screwtypes.htm -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Tue Jan 28 05:01:00 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: first photo's References: <20030127105841.86812.qmail@web21105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E3663BC.7060208@Vishay.com> Another good idea with big pictures is to set up the .JPG file to load progressively: this causes the picture to be completely visible at the beginning, but becoming sharper as the downloaded continues. This makes it easier to decide if you want to wait or abort. With most picture handling tools, this is an option to check in the "save as..." box, usually visible only after the file type has been selected as ".JPG". Jules Richardson wrote: >> Well.. I loaded up yer URLs - and 5 minutes later, when about 1/3 of the >>first eleventy-bazillon byte .jpg had drizzled into my browser, I >>abandoned it. > > > ha ha - yeah, they were a bit big. Glad this browser's got a zoom feature. > > seems to be a common mistake people make when they first get a digital camera - > I've seen a similar thing with scanners, where people insist on scanning a > whole A4 page and sending that around for the sake of the tiny photo up in one > corner. > > You learn by experience though I guess, and as someone else said it's nice to > have the big images but some sort of warning and smaller thumbnail versions > would have been nice. > > cheers > > Jules > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Tue Jan 28 05:17:00 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: Overlays, GKS... (Was: Re: New to list) References: <036001c2c417$12af85a0$0200a8c0@cosmo> <3E32B318.907FCC4C@Vishay.com> <3E341CB4.363B3474@compsys.to> <3E357AC4.8020509@Vishay.com> <3E35AA23.8DE1E590@compsys.to> Message-ID: <3E366764.7000503@Vishay.com> Jerome, never mind: > Also, no one else seems to care about it in any case. As far as I am concerned, I have RT-11 documentation and a little bit of experience with some of the monitors (see? - I even know there are different monitor flavors ;-)), but my preferred system has been RSX: also full set of docs available, but multitasking and multi-user protection is something that would require TSX if I were on the RT-11 track. Not that I regularly use multiple terminals at the same time, but I also have a PBX system at home, where I live alone. So, it is not ignorance that makes me watch, but not participate. It is just lack of time. >>The basic kludge with the overlay tree, developed on RSX, was to create >>a separate tree for the library: this made it easy to propose a >>framework .ODL file that could be readily applied to any user program, >>and then optimized for either space or speed. > > > Any possibility that it can also be used under RT-11? In fact, it was. If I ever get back to this project, I'll drop a note here, of course. -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From rschaefe at gcfn.org Tue Jan 28 05:21:00 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: '386 chip upgrade? References: <6516A98F-3274-11D7-9577-0050E4869D47@colourfull.com> Message-ID: <001501c2c6c0$106f8640$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Borsuk" To: Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 10:55 PM Subject: Re: '386 chip upgrade? > Bob, > Had to ask. I had somewhere a 386 to 486 upgrade around but it's > plcc. > Thought I could help Thnaks for the effort. I'm afraid it's going to have to be a pin-compatable drop-in-- there simply isn't room for anything else. > Rob Bob From fauradon at frontiernet.net Tue Jan 28 05:55:01 2003 From: fauradon at frontiernet.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: Tamper proof tools References: <90D12689EF7A0543AB11426D75D6ABC50358F068@oa4-server.oa.oclc.org> <003a01c2c68c$daf97da0$0264640a@auradon.com> Message-ID: <002d01c2c6d5$178ac7e0$0264640a@auradon.com> I think that would be the external model that I need. Now I have to find a local source. Thank you Francois Minnesota ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tothwolf" To: Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 10:30 PM Subject: Re: Tamper proof tools > On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, Sue & Francois wrote: > > > Thank you for the answer, > > I have that set and unfortunately there is no bit that fits those weird > > screws. It looks like a hex nut driver would work on those star shaped > > screws but I can't find my set at the moment. I'm still looking for the > > proper tool though > > I believe what you are looking for is called an 'External linehead' bit. > Linehead fasteners, are extremely popular in Japan, but US made and > imported tools are available. There are several varieties and sizes, such > as internal and external line head. The external type seems to be the type > most commonly used for video game type items. Jensen tools stocks several > varieties of the linehead type bits. > > They can be found here: > http://www.jensentools.com/product/group.asp?parent_id=53600 > > Google turned up photos of various bits here: > http://www.e-sci.com/jensen/1/26/170/4301.html > > In general, those bits will be a bit pricey, since they are specialty bits > and are usually imported. > > -Toth From fauradon at frontiernet.net Tue Jan 28 05:58:00 2003 From: fauradon at frontiernet.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: Tamper proof tools References: <90D12689EF7A0543AB11426D75D6ABC50358F068@oa4-server.oa.oclc.org> <003a01c2c68c$daf97da0$0264640a@auradon.com> <10301280823.ZM6550@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <003301c2c6d5$9a9847c0$0264640a@auradon.com> Yep there they are again :) Now that I have a few names to search with I can find exactly what I need. But at $15 a piece that makes it spendy at the moment. But hey it's for the nomad after all... :) Thank you Francois Minnesota ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 12:23 AM Subject: Re: Tamper proof tools > On Jan 28, 0:30, Tothwolf wrote: > > On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, Sue & Francois wrote: > > > > > Thank you for the answer, > > > I have that set and unfortunately there is no bit that fits those weird > > > screws. It looks like a hex nut driver would work on those star shaped > > > screws but I can't find my set at the moment. I'm still looking for the > > > proper tool though > > > > I believe what you are looking for is called an 'External linehead' bit. > > Linehead fasteners, are extremely popular in Japan, but US made and > > imported tools are available. > > Another good place to see drawings of screw head types is > http://www.lara.com/reviews/screwtypes.htm > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Jan 28 06:57:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: A cool vintage hardware hack. References: <3E34B360.1030308@tiac.net> <200301270533.h0R5XJF70541@ns2.ezwind.net> <3243.4.20.168.110.1043717141.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <001f01c2c6cd$37a43960$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Eric wrote... > Can the computer distinguish a 7906H attached to the 13037 box via HPIB > from an 7906D attached to the 13037 box by the "traditional" interface? > I'd like to think that because the 13037 box is an "intelligent" controller, > they should look the same to the host. I've never looked at it from the software side. My gut feeling though, is that the host has no way of knowing if a drive attached to the 13037 box that has the HPIB option is a D or an H. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jan 28 08:06:01 2003 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: Back in the game In-Reply-To: <20030128062312.51341.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Jan 27, 3 10:23:12 pm" Message-ID: <200301281419.GAA12148@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > After a *very* brief unemployment, I started at a new job today - as an > OpenVMS Administrator, if you can believe it. One of the more surprising > moments during the interview process was when I was mentioning that I > had a VAX 8200 and a DEC 4000 in my basement, and the boss said, "of > course you do - all you VMS guys run that stuff at home." I've gotten > lots of milage from running older/smaller version of Sun/DEC/etc boxes, > but I'd never run across someone in an interview who *expected* it. Heheheheh. Now if only I can find a residency where they expect applicants to use Commodore 64s. Congrats :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- MOVIE IDEA: E.T.E.S.: The Extra Terrestrial E-Mail Signature --------------- From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jan 28 08:26:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: slightly newer Apple stuff... Message-ID: <20030128142924.20072.qmail@web21107.mail.yahoo.com> hi all, I've just found someone local who's dumping a few Apple bits and pieces - a Macintosh 2, LC3 and a Performa 400, plus a couple of monitors and stylewriters. I said yes to them as I just fancy playing around with a bit of Apple stuff. They all work apparently but I don't know what cables etc. they have with them. Can anyone tell me anything about them or point me to any good Apple websites that will? Not sure if they make the ten year mark or not (pretty certain at least the performa won't!) so sorry for the bandwidth... I've got a few II's and a /// with a couple of profiles, and used LC's before but otherwise my apple knowledge is non-existant. I don't really have the space for them so they'll probably be up for grabs in a few weeks time... :-) cheers Jules Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From ceby2 at csc.com Tue Jan 28 08:32:00 2003 From: ceby2 at csc.com (Colin Eby) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: ibm sys/36 5360 basic needed Message-ID: Bill -- FYI, some 8" floppy based software just turned up on ePay. Item 2304666096. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2304666096&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1 They've got pretty much everything except what you were after. I've been bidding on it myself. In fact I've gone as far as a hundred bucks. If I'm bidding against anyone on the list maybe we can come to some co-purchase agreement before my media lust gets the better of my fiduciary responsibility. I already have quite a lot of it. System Support Programs Utilities RPG II Cobol Mcode Display Write 36 Display Write Language Dictionary Business Graphics Utility Personal Services 36 Query 36 PC Support 36 Additional SSP Base Communications 3270 Device Emulation MSRJE Display Station Pass-Through Tape Support PTF's - Colin Eby ceby2@csc.com Senior Consultant, National Performance Engineeering Practice CSC Consulting. From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Tue Jan 28 08:40:00 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: Free stuff References: Message-ID: <00e401c2c6da$c42f9ca0$434a1942@starfury> What do you want for it? Does it have docs and/or software? Cheers! Ed Tillman San Antonio, TX, USA > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > Behalf Of Sipke de Wal > > Sent: 23 January 2003 21:13 > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: Free stuff > > > > > > The first soundblaster was an 8-Bit PC-XT slot card > > and could be used in a PC/XT ! > > > > (Still got one around here somewhere) From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Tue Jan 28 08:42:00 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: first photo's References: <20030127012724.LVQE17488.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: <00c501c2c6da$5be994c0$434a1942@starfury> Help?!?! I'm on boradband, and the first shot was so big (more than full screen!), and downloaded so slowly, that I aborted. Can you reduce your jpeg compression, or crop and send as a .gif or .bmp? What I saw, I liked, but the time's a factor... Cheers... Ed Tillman San Antonio, TX, USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike" To: Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 07:26 PM Subject: first photo's > The first photo's of my basement have made it to the web. From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Tue Jan 28 08:44:01 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:12 2005 Subject: Free to a good home - will be skipped next week. References: <000201c2c2cf$427aad30$0201000a@thornton.protasis.co.uk> Message-ID: <00ee01c2c6db$2401cb30$434a1942@starfury> What's the postage on such a beast? I might be interested... Cheers! Ed Tillman San Antonio, TX, USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Myers" To: Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 05:04 AM Subject: Free to a good home - will be skipped next week. > IBM PS/2 model 35SX - HDD of some description, 1920Kb RAM. Also with > Proprinter XL, and IBM Monitor (heavy burnin). From cb at mythtech.net Tue Jan 28 08:46:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: slightly newer Apple stuff... Message-ID: >Can anyone tell me anything about them or point me to any good Apple websites >that will? Not sure if they make the ten year mark or not (pretty certain at >least the performa won't!) so sorry for the bandwidth... This is Apple's spec page for older Macs. -chris From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Tue Jan 28 09:20:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: Removing Duct Tape Residue Message-ID: Goo Gone is good. Be careful with Goof Off, as it is a paint remover (with petroleum-based solvents). It can disolve some plastics. Peanut butter (creamy :) ) or vegetable oil will often work to remove fresh adhesive residue. -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Wood [mailto:dbwood@kc.rr.com] Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 10:33 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Removing Duct Tape Residue Try "Goo Gone" or "Goof Off". From RCini at congressfinancial.com Tue Jan 28 09:53:00 2003 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: Model 100 DVI drive Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E51273CB@MAIL10> Hello, all: Does anyone know if the specs on the Model 100 Disk-Video Interface is the same as the CoCo disks? I have a single-drive DVI and a single low-profile CoCo disk drive. They physically look to be the same but I wanted to be sure before I lashed them together. Thanks. Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. First Vice President Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) From tim.myers at sunplan.com Tue Jan 28 10:13:01 2003 From: tim.myers at sunplan.com (Tim Myers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: Free to a good home - will be skipped next week. In-Reply-To: <00ee01c2c6db$2401cb30$434a1942@starfury> Message-ID: <004301c2c6e8$4ba43440$0201000a@thornton.protasis.co.uk> It's already found a home very close to me. Tim. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ed Tillman > Sent: 28 January 2003 14:40 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Free to a good home - will be skipped next week. > > > What's the postage on such a beast? I might be interested... > > Cheers! > > Ed Tillman > San Antonio, TX, USA > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Myers" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 05:04 AM > Subject: Free to a good home - will be skipped next week. > > > > IBM PS/2 model 35SX - HDD of some description, 1920Kb RAM. > Also with > > Proprinter XL, and IBM Monitor (heavy burnin). From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jan 28 10:16:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: OT: Location and GPS In-Reply-To: <3E355F28.14380.256938CC@localhost> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030128105722.44ffed90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:32 PM 1/27/03 +0100, you wrote: > >But for a total different Topic: Does anybody know about >an actual reroute for GPS satelites? I had problems with >my car navigation system: no more than two satelites at >the same time. So I also checked my other eq, and could >never get more than 3, even on a flat field outside the >city. That's quite unusual, the normal number ranges >between 3 and 7. They must be doing something to the satellites. I was out on Sunday two seeks ago and could never get a decent fix. We couldn't aquire more than a couple of satellites at one time and even those signals were weak and unreliable. (I'm located in Florida.) Joe From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jan 28 12:14:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: Model 100 DVI drive In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E51273CB@MAIL10> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Cini, Richard wrote: > Hello, all: > Does anyone know if the specs on the Model 100 Disk-Video Interface > is the same as the CoCo disks? I have a single-drive DVI and a single > low-profile CoCo disk drive. They physically look to be the same but I > wanted to be sure before I lashed them together. WHICH specs? If you're asking about the disk format: They use a similar logical structure with different parameters; mutually incompatible, but same idea for DIR structures. (I use the same subroutine for both, with different variables) Both use 300 oerstedt ("360K") diskettes. If you are asking whether you can install a second (or replace original) drive: YES. It is an "industry standard" flopy drive. You need to use a drive that is 300 RPM, and can properly handle 250K data transfer rate ("180K" or "360K"), such as Shugart/Matsushita/Panasonic 455, Teac 55B, etc. Only thing to watch for would be termination and drive select. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Jan 28 12:46:00 2003 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: A cool vintage hardware hack. In-Reply-To: <034601c2c57f$772ab040$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <3B67F8EC-30B6-11D7-959B-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> <3E332328.5070906@charter.net> <3E33EF5F.8010809@tiac.net> <33108.64.169.63.74.1043614167.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <034601c2c57f$772ab040$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20030128104828.G74769-100000@agora.rdrop.com> On Sun, 26 Jan 2003, Jay West wrote: > Also, check out the 7900/7905/7906/7920 drive emulator at arraid.com (AEM > box I think). I hope to be receiving one of those soon. Looks cool... but why do I think that the price for one of those would embarriss the heck out of any price that HP gear might get on ePay??? -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 28 12:49:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: Back in the game In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030128185259.49203.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Brian Chase wrote: > On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > ...I started at a new job today - as an OpenVMS Administrator... > > Congratulations! I hope the new gig works out well for you. Thanks. Me, too. > I also hope you get to work on some VAXen running OpenVMS and not just > those new-fangled Alphas. No such luck... All modern Alpha hardware, less than a year old, actually. I still have all the old stuff at my house, though (VAX 8200, MicroVAXen, 11/750...), along with a couple of Alphas (DEC 4000-710 & AXPpci33). I'm now dusting off neurons that have long been in cold storage... -ethan From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Jan 28 12:52:00 2003 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: Pinout for HP 2629b terminal? In-Reply-To: <200301271949.h0RJnhSH082900@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <20030122084842.T25853-100000@agora.rdrop.com> <200301221807.h0MI7KlQ053866@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <20030124090452.Q50656-100000@agora.rdrop.com> <200301242104.h0OL4VNG008024@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <20030127090614.H92112-100000@agora.rdrop.com> <200301271949.h0RJnhSH082900@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <20030128105130.R74769-100000@agora.rdrop.com> On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, Frank McConnell wrote: > > Hmmm... htis one is not color, but there are a number of odd 'arrow' keys > > on the keyboard that might suggest scanning about a larger than displayed > > buffer... > > One of these would probably have arrow keys for moving the cursor, in > the block up top with the function keys: arrows pointing up, down, > left, right, and up/left meaning "top of buffer". These move the > cursor on the screen. Shift modifies them: I think up, down, left, > and right become "scroll thataway" where the cursor stays put and the > window into the buffer moves; and shift+up/left is "bottom of buffer". Well... eight 'arrow' keys (I think, I'm not in front of it at the moment) with the 'usual' up, down, left, right... then diagonal (???) keys, and some have the legend 'roll' on them as well... > There would also be "NEXT PAGE" and "PREV PAGE" keys that let you > page through the buffer. Hmmm... I'll look, but don't reall these... > If it's a graphics terminal (and has its original keyboard), the > numeric pad off to the right has additional legends for its > manipulations of the graphics cursor. I think it has its proper keyboard, but it has no numeric pad. Did note an alternate numeric set in the alpha keys similar to some keypunch machines... > > Any enlightenment you can provide will be greatly appreciated! > > I tried trawling my inventory database for the manual, but no luck. > But I'll keep my eyes open as I dig through boxes. Cool... Thanks; -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 28 12:54:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: Back in the game In-Reply-To: <200301280631.h0S6Vp1f023980@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <20030128185651.40744.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Dittman wrote: > > After a *very* brief unemployment, I started at a new job today - as an > > OpenVMS Administrator, if you can believe it... > > What's so unbelieveable about that? The ratio of Windows-based job openings compare to *everything else* in the IT field... I see more Novell postings than VMS, by a wide margin. I just didn't expect to be using these skills professionally again. I'm happy, but surprised. -ethan From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Jan 28 13:05:00 2003 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: ...couple of new items... Message-ID: <20030128110503.S74769-100000@agora.rdrop.com> for the 'Garage' Garage sale... (regular internet connection is down, so have to live with text for now...) Heath H-11A + H27 --- $300.00 Altos 586 --- $40.00 Altos 580 --- $40.00 Commodore VIC-20 in original box with docs and cables - $40.00 Items are untested and as such are offered AS-IS. Shipping/packing charges additional. Offers/interesting trades considered. Thanks; -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From dittman at dittman.net Tue Jan 28 13:18:01 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: Back in the game In-Reply-To: <20030128185651.40744.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jan 28, 2003 10:56:51 AM Message-ID: <200301281920.h0SJKTmk028561@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > After a *very* brief unemployment, I started at a new job today - as an > > > OpenVMS Administrator, if you can believe it... > > > > What's so unbelieveable about that? > > The ratio of Windows-based job openings compare to *everything else* > in the IT field... I see more Novell postings than VMS, by a wide > margin. > > I just didn't expect to be using these skills professionally again. I'm > happy, but surprised. I've been very busy doing VMS work for the last several years. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From coredump at gifford.co.uk Tue Jan 28 13:20:01 2003 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: Back in the game References: <20030128185259.49203.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E36D903.4030804@gifford.co.uk> Ethan Dicks wrote: > No such luck... All modern Alpha hardware, less than a year old, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ All you have to do is wait... They'll throw it out eventually, and then (nine years from now) you'll be happy! -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From jrice54 at charter.net Tue Jan 28 13:24:00 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: Model 100 DVI drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E36D970.8040203@charter.net> I used a spare 1/2 ht 360k floppy out of a Tandy 1000. Worked like a dream. Sometimes I miss my Model-T's. James Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Cini, Richard wrote: > >>Hello, all: >> Does anyone know if the specs on the Model 100 Disk-Video Interface >>is the same as the CoCo disks? I have a single-drive DVI and a single >>low-profile CoCo disk drive. They physically look to be the same but I >>wanted to be sure before I lashed them together. > > > WHICH specs? > > If you're asking about the disk format: > They use a similar logical structure with different parameters; mutually > incompatible, but same idea for DIR structures. (I use the same > subroutine for both, with different variables) > Both use 300 oerstedt ("360K") diskettes. > > If you are asking whether you can install a second (or replace > original) drive: > YES. > It is an "industry standard" flopy drive. You need to use a drive that is > 300 RPM, and can properly handle 250K data transfer rate ("180K" or > "360K"), such as Shugart/Matsushita/Panasonic 455, Teac 55B, etc. > Only thing to watch for would be termination and drive select. From classiccmp at vulcanjedi.com Tue Jan 28 13:39:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vulcanjedi.com (Vulcanjedi Classic) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: Tamper proof tools In-Reply-To: <20030128180001.56039.11969.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: Greetings programs. I must de-lurk here for a video game related item :) The security bits used to open Sega and Nintendo items are 4.5mm and 3.8mm inverted torx bits. www.mcmelectronics.com part numbers 22-1150 and 22-1145 and they are listed at $1.99 each. They also have the tri wing bits that open gamecube and gameboy stuff. They are also a source for replacement cartridge edge connectors and other video game hardware. I promise my next post will be about free CBM and PET computers in the Philadelphia PA USA area. :) Mark webmaster www.vulcanjedi.com 30 years of game history! Message: 19 From: "Sue & Francois" To: Subject: Re: Tamper proof tools Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 06:00:23 -0800 Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Yep there they are again :) Now that I have a few names to search with I can find exactly what I need. But at $15 a piece that makes it spendy at the moment. But hey it's for the nomad after all... :) Thank you Francois Minnesota From truthanl at oclc.org Tue Jan 28 13:42:00 2003 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: OT: Location and GPS Message-ID: <90D12689EF7A0543AB11426D75D6ABC50358F069@oa4-server.oa.oclc.org> I boat, therefore I follow navigation aids and GPS service interruptions at : http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/gps/default.htm There is an Active Notice for Cape Canaveral Area: Cape Canaveral, FL - AFSPC 2002-236 For the Aviation Community 5 NM RADIUS OF N2828/W0835 (ORL100/042) FROM THE SURFACE UP TO FL250. REMARKS; INTERMITTENT DATES AND TIME; 14 DAYS ADVANCE NOTICE WILL BE GIVEN PRIOR TO EACH EVENT. IFR OPERATIONS BASED ON GPS NAVIGATION SHOULD NOT BE PLANNED IN THE AFFECTED AREAS DURING THE PERIODS INDICATED. THESE OPERATIONS INCLUDE DOMESTIC RNAV OR LONG-RANGE NAVIGATION REQUIRING GPS. THESE OPERATIONS ALSO INCLUDE GPS STANDALONE AND OVERLAY INSTRUMENT APPROACH OPERATIONS. ON THE FOLLOWING DATES AND TIMES: REMARKS; INTERMITTENT DATES AND TIME; 14 DAYS ADVANCE NOTICE WILL BE GIVEN PRIOR TO EACH EVENT. Last Updated: 2002-12-23 It also Looks like they'll be testing A New Digital GPS beacon "build out" at Angleton TX next week. I have no idea if thats a correction beacon affecting Florida. Sincerely Larry Truthan From Peter.Hicks at POGGS.CO.UK Tue Jan 28 13:44:00 2003 From: Peter.Hicks at POGGS.CO.UK (Peter Hicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: RM Nimbus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E36DE73.8020509@POGGS.CO.UK> Tony Duell wrote: >>I recall the age old DD/HD debate with the floppies - is there really >> >> >Oh, not again (this has been a FAQ on this list many times...) > I should have put quotes around the debate. I never understood magnetics and coercivity, but always bought HD disks for HD drives, and DD disks for DD drives. I just sat around smug when DD-formatted-as-HD disks mysteriously failed on colleagues... Peter. From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Jan 28 13:48:00 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: A cool vintage hardware hack. References: <3B67F8EC-30B6-11D7-959B-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> <3E332328.5070906@charter.net> <3E33EF5F.8010809@tiac.net> <33108.64.169.63.74.1043614167.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <034601c2c57f$772ab040$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <20030128104828.G74769-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <003301c2c706$c68dace0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> James wrote.... > Looks cool... but why do I think that the price for one of those would > embarriss the heck out of any price that HP gear might get on ePay??? I believe they said the typical starter units were around $8,000. Needless to say, I'm not paying that kinda money! *G* Jay West From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Jan 28 13:51:00 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: Pinout for HP 2629b terminal? In-Reply-To: James Willing's message of "Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:55:22 -0800 (PST)" References: <20030122084842.T25853-100000@agora.rdrop.com> <200301221807.h0MI7KlQ053866@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <20030124090452.Q50656-100000@agora.rdrop.com> <200301242104.h0OL4VNG008024@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <20030127090614.H92112-100000@agora.rdrop.com> <200301271949.h0RJnhSH082900@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <20030128105130.R74769-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <200301281945.h0SJjiMX027254@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Jim Willing wrote: > Well... eight 'arrow' keys (I think, I'm not in front of it at the > moment) with the 'usual' up, down, left, right... then diagonal (???) > keys, and some have the legend 'roll' on them as well... > I think it has its proper keyboard, but it has no numeric pad. Did note > an alternate numeric set in the alpha keys similar to some keypunch > machines... These make me think that it is a 2621-style keyboard. Sorry, like I wrote before, the 2621 wasn't capable of running VPLUS applications and so it was sort of shunned at the PPOE where we had one. But I remember it had a single group of keys with the cursor keys right above the numeric keys (and I think doing double duty as function keys, albeit non-programmable function keys). -Frank McConnell From jrasite at eoni.com Tue Jan 28 14:20:01 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: slightly newer Apple stuff... References: <20030128142924.20072.qmail@web21107.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E36E6B3.5010304@eoni.com> Jules Richardson wrote: > Can anyone tell me anything about them or point me to any good Apple websites > that will? From Technoid at 30below.com Tue Jan 28 14:23:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: I am not dead! In-Reply-To: <179115693909.20030126210645@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <005d01c2c70b$9eb8e400$6401a8c0@benchbox> There are very few things of which I certain these days, but one thing I am sure of is that I am not dead. I'm sorry for making such a mess of the list and of my dealings with Curt. He deserved better. I just lost my mind. Plain and simple. I have some of it back now and am hunting for more. If any of you find some, please let me know so I can put it back. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Sharp Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 10:07 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Jeff Worley... On Saturday, January 25, 2003, Curt Vendel wrote: > I just thought everyone should know that Jeff Worley is most certainly ok > in my book It's good to know that he's ok, both in your book and in the general sense. We had found an obit that looked like it could be his, and that was quite troubling. Mr. Worley is a great guy. He gave me my first PDP-11. -- Jeffrey Sharp From altertech at blueyonder.co.uk Tue Jan 28 15:23:00 2003 From: altertech at blueyonder.co.uk (Rob Hamadi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: slightly newer Apple stuff... In-Reply-To: <20030128142924.20072.qmail@web21107.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030128212326.00b4b550@pop3.blueyonder.co.uk> At 14:29 28/01/2003, Jules wrote: >Can anyone tell me anything about them or point me to any good Apple websites >that will? Not sure if they make the ten year mark or not (pretty certain at >least the performa won't!) so sorry for the bandwidth... Try www.lowendmac.com An excellent resource for older macs IMHO Rob London UK From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Tue Jan 28 15:31:00 2003 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: '386 chip upgrade? Message-ID: Upgrade for IBM P70 luggable? Actually why not use a P75 which is the 486 model of the P70, I have a couple of both. One is missing the keyboard and the back but the SCSI disk and internals are there. Mike From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jan 28 15:48:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: Back in the game In-Reply-To: from "Brian Chase" at Jan 27, 2003 10:46:09 PM Message-ID: <200301282152.h0SLq1U20320@shell1.aracnet.com> > Congratulations! I hope the new gig works out well for you. I also > hope you get to work on some VAXen running OpenVMS and not just those > new-fangled Alphas. > > -brian. Bah! I hope he get's to work on some Itanium 2's running OpenVMS, and not just VAXen and Alpha's! Gotta stay current! Zane From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Jan 28 16:04:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: I am not dead! In-Reply-To: <005d01c2c70b$9eb8e400$6401a8c0@benchbox> References: <179115693909.20030126210645@subatomix.com> <005d01c2c70b$9eb8e400$6401a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: <4587.4.20.168.110.1043791637.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I just lost my mind. Plain and simple. I > have some of it back now and am hunting for more. If any of you find > some, please let me know so I can put it back. Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Jan 28 16:21:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: Back in the game In-Reply-To: <200301282152.h0SLq1U20320@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > Congratulations! I hope the new gig works out well for you. I also > > hope you get to work on some VAXen running OpenVMS and not just those > > new-fangled Alphas. > > Bah! I hope he get's to work on some Itanium 2's running OpenVMS, and not > just VAXen and Alpha's! Gotta stay current! Itaniums are off-topic!!! Oh wait--maybe they aren't? Didn't Intel start development on that chip about a decade ago? Bwah ha hah! -brian. From dave at naffnet.org.uk Tue Jan 28 16:31:00 2003 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: I am not dead! References: <179115693909.20030126210645@subatomix.com> <005d01c2c70b$9eb8e400$6401a8c0@benchbox> <4587.4.20.168.110.1043791637.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3E370577.4000404@naffnet.org.uk> Eric Smith wrote: >>I just lost my mind. Plain and simple. I >>have some of it back now and am hunting for more. If any of you find >>some, please let me know so I can put it back. >> >> > >Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. > Pray tell, under the circumstances, how do you know this to be true? Dave. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Jan 28 16:39:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: I am not dead! References: <179115693909.20030126210645@subatomix.com> <005d01c2c70b$9eb8e400$6401a8c0@benchbox> <4587.4.20.168.110.1043791637.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E370577.4000404@naffnet.org.uk> Message-ID: <3E3706C7.90809@jetnet.ab.ca> Dave Woodman wrote: >> Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. >> > Pray tell, under the circumstances, how do you know this to be true? Mostly cause of the large echo, I would guess. Ben. From dave at naffnet.org.uk Tue Jan 28 16:52:00 2003 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: I am not dead! References: <179115693909.20030126210645@subatomix.com> <005d01c2c70b$9eb8e400$6401a8c0@benchbox> <4587.4.20.168.110.1043791637.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3E370577.4000404@naffnet.org.uk> <3E3706C7.90809@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3E370A65.2010907@naffnet.org.uk> ben franchuk wrote: > Dave Woodman wrote: > >>> Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. >>> >> Pray tell, under the circumstances, how do you know this to be true? > > Mostly cause of the large echo, I would guess. > Ben. set mode pedant/degree=severe/relevance=pointless In a space as small as a skull, surely this would be resonance rather than echo.. set mode nopedant Dave From sml49 at attbi.com Tue Jan 28 17:06:00 2003 From: sml49 at attbi.com (Seth Lewin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: Removing duct tape residue. In-Reply-To: <20030128040800.50349.73416.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: > Message: 48 > Subject: Removing Duct Tape Residue > From: Christopher McNabb > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Organization: The McNabb Family > Date: 27 Jan 2003 22:28:26 -0500 > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > While out in Idaho picking up a PDP-11/83 I also managed to pick up a > working LA-100 at a government surplus place. It had a piece of duct > tape stuck to the clear plastic cover with the word "Spare" written on > it. Anyone know of a good way to remove the remaining duct tape residue > from the cover? Try a product named "Goo-Gone" which is a citrus-oil based concoction meant to remove adhesive residues and whatnot from items on which you'd rather not use hydrocarbon-based solvents. Works well (though slowly) at removing adhesive labels so should probably work on duct tape residue, especially if you warm the residue up a bit. Full-service hardware stores should have the product. Seth Lewin From sml49 at attbi.com Tue Jan 28 17:19:00 2003 From: sml49 at attbi.com (Seth Lewin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #417 - 31 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030128180001.56039.11969.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: > Message: 22 > Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:29:24 +0000 (GMT) > From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?= > > Subject: slightly newer Apple stuff... > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > hi all, > > I've just found someone local who's dumping a few Apple bits and pieces - a > Macintosh 2, LC3 and a Performa 400, plus a couple of monitors and > stylewriters. I said yes to them as I just fancy playing around with a bit of > Apple stuff. They all work apparently but I don't know what cables etc. they > have with them. > > Can anyone tell me anything about them or point me to any good Apple websites > that will? Not sure if they make the ten year mark or not (pretty certain at > least the performa won't!) so sorry for the bandwidth... THE source on the web for the lowdown on any of these old Macs is <> The Mac II (2) is a 16 mhz machine with a Motorola 68020 processor and was the first color-capable Mac. The LCIII (3) runs a 16 or 25 mhz 68LC040 (no FPU as part of the CPU); I don't recall what the Performa 400 contains. The difference between the Performa and "standard" versions of some of these older machines has more to do with how they were sold and what software was bundled (sometimes a slightly different version of the OS, too) but otherwise not much. All have internal SCSI drives. The Mac II has a port for a second (external) floppy. These machines can run up to MacOS 7.6.1 but are quicker and more at home with 7.5.3 or even 6.0.8, which is quite speedy on even machines as slow as these. Do you plan to display them, actually use 'em or what? I have a slew of parts and old drives and whatnot for these machines - the drive's usually what goes on them. By the way: check the motherboard battery to make sure it's live (3.6v lithium). They'll boot w/o a live battery but will lose their time and certain other settings. Seth Lewin From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jan 28 17:30:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: FA:HP-9805, Programmer's Panel, Teletype manuals & tool Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030128183903.44ff74c8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> FYI: I just threw some stuff on E-bay including a HP 9805 Statistics calculator, two volumes of model 33 Teletype manuals, a Teletype tool, a programmer's panel and an Apple computer Module ID book. The auctions are for 5 days only so don't delay. I will be adding more tomorrow. Joe From ssj152 at charter.net Tue Jan 28 17:43:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: Wanted, book: "Practical Microprocessors" Message-ID: <039f01c2c727$63ac3f80$0200a8c0@cosmo> I'm looking for a book for my HP 5036A microprocessor lab, "Practical Microprocessors" textbook (H.P. part no. 05036-90003). If anyone has a source for one of these, please contact me off list. I already have a source for one for $100 US and can't afford it... Thanks, Stuart Johnson From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Jan 28 17:48:01 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: I am not dead! In-Reply-To: <4587.4.20.168.110.1043791637.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. Shouldn't it be that your mind misses you? -brian. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 28 19:32:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: Tamper proof tools In-Reply-To: <003a01c2c68c$daf97da0$0264640a@auradon.com> from "Sue & Francois" at Jan 27, 3 09:19:38 pm Message-ID: > Thank you for the answer, > I have that set and unfortunately there is no bit that fits those weird > screws. It looks like a hex nut driver would work on those star shaped > screws but I can't find my set at the moment. > I'm still looking for the proper tool though There are 2 sorts of 'raised round screwheads with notches round the edge'. The common one is the 'inverse Torx' -- it's exactly the same as Torx, but the screwhead is male and it fits into a ring spanner (box end wrench?) or socket. The uncommon one is 'System Zero'. The notches are smaller, the head is more rounded and has sloping sides so you can't (easily) grab it with pliers. I've seen these used in UK computer equipment -- one of my EPROM programmers is assembled with them (for what reason %deity only knows). In the UK, RS/Electromail sell the System Zero tools should you ever need them (both as 'insert bits' for 1/4" hex drivers and as complete tools with handles). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 28 19:34:17 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: Decserver 700-16 firmware In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Jan 26, 3 11:44:50 pm Message-ID: > Dammit, I was thinking that as I was typing it.....12 weeks unemployment is > really rotting my brain :( The DNAS 2.2 stuff still stands though. If 12 weeks seems bad, you should try 5 years :-( Classic computers are about the only thing that's kept me (in)sane. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 28 19:35:48 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: Free stuff In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Jan 27, 3 00:13:40 am Message-ID: [Mitsumi CD ROM drives] > > Those were very common about 5 years ago... I guess there are plenty > > still around. > > 5 years ago? I think not :) In 1998 severalteen speed IDE CDs were the norm, 5 years ago (well, OK, middle of 1997) was when I finished my last job, in major UK University. I am _sure_ of this because there's an HPCC conference every 5 years... Many of the 'public access' machines in the university terminal rooms had this sort of CD-ROM drive. They certainly weren't new, or the 'latest thing', but they were still in use. -tony From jrasite at eoni.com Tue Jan 28 19:41:00 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: Removing duct tape residue. References: Message-ID: <3E37320D.40306@eoni.com> For cleaning computer plastics, the absolute best product I've found (in the US) is Hoppe's No. 9 Powder Solvent. Found at your local sporting goods store. Even removes PERMANENT Sharpie. Jim From Technoid at 30below.com Tue Jan 28 20:07:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: Removing duct tape residue. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005e01c2c73b$b257c690$6401a8c0@benchbox> I'm really surprised no-one mentioned WD40. WD works great at removing tape residue, is cheap, available anywhere, and rarely clouds even clear plastic. Test it on a concealed area first, but WD is the bomb. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Seth Lewin Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 6:10 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Removing duct tape residue. > Message: 48 > Subject: Removing Duct Tape Residue > From: Christopher McNabb > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Organization: The McNabb Family > Date: 27 Jan 2003 22:28:26 -0500 > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > While out in Idaho picking up a PDP-11/83 I also managed to pick up a > working LA-100 at a government surplus place. It had a piece of duct > tape stuck to the clear plastic cover with the word "Spare" written on > it. Anyone know of a good way to remove the remaining duct tape residue > from the cover? Try a product named "Goo-Gone" which is a citrus-oil based concoction meant to remove adhesive residues and whatnot from items on which you'd rather not use hydrocarbon-based solvents. Works well (though slowly) at removing adhesive labels so should probably work on duct tape residue, especially if you warm the residue up a bit. Full-service hardware stores should have the product. Seth Lewin From Technoid at 30below.com Tue Jan 28 20:15:01 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: Removing duct tape residue. In-Reply-To: <3E37320D.40306@eoni.com> Message-ID: <005f01c2c73c$f0d855f0$6401a8c0@benchbox> Now THAT is one I've never heard of. I have a bottle hanging around somewhere and I'm just itching to try it out. Guess you are a gun nut also. I have an 1891 Argentine Mauser bolt action (7.65x54mm), an 94' Winchester lever action in cal. 30-30, a Reminton Viper in .22, and a .380 Llama blowback pistol. All are very nice. The Mauser will pierce a 1/2 inch steel plate with no sweat. I was impressed. I haven't shot it much though. It hurts and the rounds (San Francisco is what they are called) are hard to find outside of gun shows. Even then they are mostly military surplus. I've not had any mis/hangfires but I bet I will with 50+ year old ammo. One thing I like to do is go and blast dead hard disks. Poetic justice. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jim Arnott Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 8:45 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Removing duct tape residue. For cleaning computer plastics, the absolute best product I've found (in the US) is Hoppe's No. 9 Powder Solvent. Found at your local sporting goods store. Even removes PERMANENT Sharpie. Jim From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Tue Jan 28 20:36:00 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: Removing duct tape residue. In-Reply-To: <005f01c2c73c$f0d855f0$6401a8c0@benchbox> References: <005f01c2c73c$f0d855f0$6401a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: <1043807969.3557.4.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> On Tue, 2003-01-28 at 21:20, Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > Guess you are a gun nut also. I have an 1891 Argentine Mauser bolt > action (7.65x54mm), an 94' Winchester lever action in cal. 30-30, a > Reminton Viper in .22, and a .380 Llama blowback pistol. All are very > nice. The Mauser will pierce a 1/2 inch steel plate with no sweat. I > was impressed. I haven't shot it much though. It hurts and the rounds > (San Francisco is what they are called) are hard to find outside of gun > shows. Even then they are mostly military surplus. I've not had any > mis/hangfires but I bet I will with 50+ year old ammo. > I always find it interesting that computer types would also be gun nuts. I've got a 1942 Soviet Musen Nagent (Spelling?) 7.62x54R, a 1970s era Savage 30-06, and a .380 handgun. Cabela's has a good stock of various odd ammunition sizes, including 7.62x54R. I use a military grade gun oil on my weapons and for lubricating old printer head guide rails. As far as blasting old computer hardware, more often than not I feel like killing the new stuff instead. -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From fauradon at frontiernet.net Tue Jan 28 21:11:01 2003 From: fauradon at frontiernet.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: Tamper proof tools References: Message-ID: <003801c2c754$f848dc20$0264640a@auradon.com> OK I ordered the two that they had, I guess for that price I can have them both. Plus I have game gear and genesis to work with. Thanks to all that answered. Francois Minnesota ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vulcanjedi Classic" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 11:41 AM Subject: Re: Tamper proof tools > Greetings programs. > I must de-lurk here for a video game related item :) > The security bits used to open Sega and Nintendo items are 4.5mm and 3.8mm > inverted torx bits. www.mcmelectronics.com > part numbers 22-1150 and 22-1145 and they are listed at $1.99 each. They > also have the tri wing bits that open gamecube and gameboy stuff. > They are also a source for replacement cartridge edge connectors and other > video game hardware. > > I promise my next post will be about free CBM and PET computers in the > Philadelphia PA USA area. :) > > Mark > webmaster > www.vulcanjedi.com 30 years of game history! > > > Message: 19 > From: "Sue & Francois" > To: > Subject: Re: Tamper proof tools > Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 06:00:23 -0800 > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Yep there they are again :) Now that I have a few names to search with I can > find exactly what I need. But at $15 a piece that makes it spendy at the > moment. But hey it's for the nomad after all... :) > Thank you > Francois > Minnesota From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Tue Jan 28 21:19:00 2003 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: GRiDCase 3 Battery Question. Message-ID: <20030129032224.723D421A7F@www.fastmail.fm> Does anybody know the part or catalog no. for a battery for a GRiDCase 3 Laptop battery? I just this week got one of these old gems, & would just love to use it on the road. By the way, anybody know where I can find a GRiD-OS ROM for this thing? -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own From pietstan at rogers.com Tue Jan 28 21:31:00 2003 From: pietstan at rogers.com (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: Removing Duct Tape Residue References: <1043724505.26901.7.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <3E374B5D.6070305@rogers.com> Christopher McNabb wrote: > While out in Idaho picking up a PDP-11/83 I also managed to pick up a > working LA-100 at a government surplus place. It had a piece of duct > tape stuck to the clear plastic cover with the word "Spare" written on > it. Anyone know of a good way to remove the remaining duct tape residue > from the cover? > > Depending on what type of plastic the cover is made of, WD-40 might work.... From keeblernsam at zippytech.com Tue Jan 28 22:17:56 2003 From: keeblernsam at zippytech.com (keeblernsam) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: Neat find: Maxx Steele Robot Message-ID: <000601c2c6fa$1c64ffe0$c153d941@samlcydhmtjyp5> hello i was checking out your page and comments on you buying a maxx a few years ago ,just to let you know im a collecter and was wandering do you still have your maxx steele email me we will talk thanks. GUY keeblernsam@zippytech.com From dante_toza at yahoo.com Tue Jan 28 22:20:33 2003 From: dante_toza at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Dante=20Toza?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: non-profit Message-ID: <20030128191349.47274.qmail@web20413.mail.yahoo.com> I saw your comment and question. i have done quite a bit of research. i'd thought this might be helpful to you. http://members.aol.com/irsform1023/misc/comp501s.html --------------------------------- With Yahoo! Mail you can get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs From mhstein at canada.com Tue Jan 28 22:21:59 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: Model 100 DVI drive Message-ID: <01C2C6DA.2EBB6B40@mse-d03> -------------------Original Message---------------- From: "Cini, Richard" Subject: Model 100 DVI drive Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:55:53 -0500 Hello, all: Does anyone know if the specs on the Model 100 Disk-Video Interface is the same as the CoCo disks? I have a single-drive DVI and a single low-profile CoCo disk drive. They physically look to be the same but I wanted to be sure before I lashed them together. Thanks. Rich ---------------------------------------------------------- Hi Rich: I can't answer your question, but I do have a DVI and the manual and s/w, if that can help you in any way. It runs CP/M IIRC. And if anybody's interested, make me an offer... mike in Toronto, Can. From jwillis at manson.vistech.net Tue Jan 28 22:23:36 2003 From: jwillis at manson.vistech.net (jwillis@manson.vistech.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: WANTED: VAX 11/750 Front/Side Panels Message-ID: <030128180139.23001e72@manson.vistech.net> Wanted: VAX 11/750 chassis panels: * Front door * Outer left side panel * Back door * Back I/O cover panel Hoping to get these from an otherwise gutted or non-functional system. They will soon be all that remains to complete my 11/750. Thanks, John W. The VAXpirate From anheier at owt.com Tue Jan 28 22:32:01 2003 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm & Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: PDP 11/23 Blueprints available Message-ID: I have a DEC PDP 11/23 Field Maintenance Print set (series FPF11-0) for a 11/23 floating point processor dated 1980-81., This is printed on approximately 60 11*17" pages. This would be very useful for someone trying to maintain a PDP 11/23. I am interested in trading for old CPU processor chips that I am collecting. Thanks Norm From subsolar at subsolar.org Tue Jan 28 22:40:14 2003 From: subsolar at subsolar.org (Paul) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: I am not dead! In-Reply-To: <4587.4.20.168.110.1043791637.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <179115693909.20030126210645@subatomix.com> <005d01c2c70b$9eb8e400$6401a8c0@benchbox> <4587.4.20.168.110.1043791637.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <1043797928.1100.0.camel@azure.subsolar> On Tue, 2003-01-28 at 16:07, Eric Smith wrote: > > I just lost my mind. Plain and simple. I > > have some of it back now and am hunting for more. If any of you find > > some, please let me know so I can put it back. > > Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. > OZZIE OSBORNE!!! From vance at neurotica.com Tue Jan 28 22:41:51 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: I am not dead! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Brian Chase wrote: > On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > > > Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. > > Shouldn't it be that your mind misses you? Brian said, waxing philosophical. Peace... Sridhar From pchalloffame at ameritech.net Tue Jan 28 22:43:20 2003 From: pchalloffame at ameritech.net (DEAN) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:13 2005 Subject: To: TONY DUELL Message-ID: <001001c2c711$188165a0$de020202@reguser> What undocumented instructions in HP calculators... Got an example Yours Truly Dean Lampman From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Jan 28 22:48:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: ...couple of new items... In-Reply-To: <20030128110503.S74769-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <000c01c2c750$86612620$263dcd18@D73KSM11> Are either of the Altos' spoken for? Wayne Smith > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of James Willing > Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 11:08 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: ...couple of new items... > > > for the 'Garage' Garage sale... > > (regular internet connection is down, so have to live with text for > now...) > > Heath H-11A + H27 --- $300.00 > Altos 586 --- $40.00 > Altos 580 --- $40.00 > Commodore VIC-20 in original box with docs and cables - $40.00 > > Items are untested and as such are offered AS-IS. > Shipping/packing charges additional. Offers/interesting > trades considered. > > Thanks; > -jim > --- > jimw@agora.rdrop.com > The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From anheier at owt.com Tue Jan 28 22:49:32 2003 From: anheier at owt.com (Norm & Beth Anheier) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: IBM Power Server 590 components available Message-ID: I have the following from an IBM Power server 590 available for trade. IBM DAT (or some sort of tape drive) SCSI model EXB-8200 IBM 4x cdrom drive p/n 88G4917 SCSI MCA (I think) cards IBM SCSI2 port card FRU11H3600 IBM FDDI extender p/n 31g9395 3Com ethernet bus master adapter p/n oog3368 IBM SCSI I/O controller FRU 31g9729 IBM FDDI Main, p/n 31g9393 Thanks Norm From jss at subatomix.com Tue Jan 28 23:04:57 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: I am not dead! In-Reply-To: <005d01c2c70b$9eb8e400$6401a8c0@benchbox> References: <005d01c2c70b$9eb8e400$6401a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: <2313253848.20030128225743@subatomix.com> On Tuesday, January 28, 2003, Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > There are very few things of which I certain these days, but one thing I > am sure of is that I am not dead. Glad to hear it. By the way, the uPDP-11/23+ you shipped me is now 100% functional. As you suspected, I had to replace its power supply. I've been slowly learning about RT-11 using that box. It's been a lot of fun. I really appreciate your generosity. -- Jeffrey Sharp From n8uhn at yahoo.com Tue Jan 28 23:21:03 2003 From: n8uhn at yahoo.com (Bill Allen Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: Model 100 DVI drive Message-ID: <20030129051345.64797.qmail@web40711.mail.yahoo.com> I cannot remember what the model 100 used for a drive. the coco and coco 2/3 both used standard (ibm compatable) mfm, 5 1/4 in, single sided, low density floppy drives. the card edge connector for the coco cable between the interface cart and floppy was a streight thru cable - (pin 1 went to pin 1 etc). i have used standard 360k floppys on the coco - it only uses one side of the diskette for 180k. if the model 100 has the same pinout and uses a standard mfm dirve it should work. btw the coco drive case did have a power supply in it for the drive - power did not come from the cart. Bill Message: 36 From: "Cini, Richard" To: "CCTech (E-mail)" Subject: Model 100 DVI drive Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:55:53 -0500 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Hello, all: Does anyone know if the specs on the Model 100 Disk-Video Interface is the same as the CoCo disks? I have a single-drive DVI and a single low-profile CoCo disk drive. They physically look to be the same but I wanted to be sure before I lashed them together. Thanks. Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. First Vice President Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) End of cctech Digest From jss at subatomix.com Tue Jan 28 23:29:48 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: Removing duct tape residue. In-Reply-To: <005e01c2c73b$b257c690$6401a8c0@benchbox> References: <005e01c2c73b$b257c690$6401a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: <11610566233.20030128221255@subatomix.com> On Tuesday, January 28, 2003, Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > I'm really surprised no-one mentioned WD40. WD works great at removing > tape residue, is cheap, available anywhere, and rarely clouds even clear > plastic. Test it on a concealed area first, but WD is the bomb. OT: Another thing WD-40 is good at is killing bugs. It's not *the* fastest insecticide I've used, but it is certainly fast. It works great if it's all you have and the wasp is between you and the Raid. I've actually been in that situation three or four times. I fear and HATE bugs. The last time I used WD-40 on a wasp, I also emptied an upside-down can of air on it as it was dying. The bug had spent the previous *hour* terrifying me. -- Jeffrey Sharp From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Jan 28 23:31:40 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: Odd posting order on cctech In-Reply-To: <103115013200.20030126205524@subatomix.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Jeffrey Sharp > Sent: 27 January 2003 02:55 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Odd posting order on cctech > > > On Sunday, January 26, 2003, Witchy wrote: > > Anyone else get the same problem? > > It's not a bug, it's a feature. Or rather, it's a side effect of how the > lists work. You may wish to read these: > > http://www.classiccmp.org/cctech.html > http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2003-January/013113.html Ah, right - that'll teach me to RTFM then won't it :) (actually nothing's done that yet so I'm not going to start now....*g*) -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Jan 28 23:33:12 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: RM Nimbus In-Reply-To: <3E35902A.6090909@POGGS.CO.UK> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Peter Hicks > Sent: 27 January 2003 20:02 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: RM Nimbus > > Funnily enough, a PC1 should be winging its way to me "real soon now", > complete with monitor and manual. I'll have a look for you. I doubt > they're standard VGA monitors. When I get my hands on the manual, I'll > mail you off-list and let you know pinouts, if I can find them. It's well over a year since I last had them plugged in so I can't remember what monitor I was trying to use; at the time I got an un-sync'd blue BIOS screen so at least they powered up. Nowadays I've got more monitors than I know what to do with, but they all belong to machines that will eventually be exhibited. The old Amsturd PC series monitors (and therefore the Sinclair PC200, which is an Amsturd PC20 in a black case, which essentially contains the motherboard of the PPC series of portable machines) were either CGA or EGA so they may work with the RMs. If I remember tomorrow I'll dig one of each out and try it. > The AX/2 takes a 'standard' (for once) VGA monitor. I still have my > AX/2's monitor sitting on my firewall here. Its a little dodgy, but it > managed to display 800x600 at 256 colours inbetween the time I bought my > PC and the time I'd saved enough for a 17" monitor. I'll live in hope then :) -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From tomerg at bigmail.co.il Tue Jan 28 23:34:44 2003 From: tomerg at bigmail.co.il (Tomer Gabel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: XT-IDE drive lot spotted on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <008a01c2c665$fc8d7240$0201c80a@vic20> Are these actually considered rare? I have a 25mb drive upstairs that has seen a bit of abuse but may still be functional (never had the time to check it... too messy dismantling my IBM PC unnecessarily :-\) > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of r. 'bear' stricklin > Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 1:16 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: XT-IDE drive lot spotted on eBay > > > Normally I don't do this, but it's in a strange category and > I know some > folks here have been looking hard for these type of drives in > the past. > > 12 Seagate RARE Hard Drives ST-325X 25MB NEW > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2304712236& category=11209 Ends 3 Feb 10:18a PST Good luck! ok r. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Jan 28 23:37:01 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: first photo's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of John Lawson > Sent: 27 January 2003 01:42 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: first photo's > > Well.. I loaded up yer URLs - and 5 minutes later, when about 1/3 of the > first eleventy-bazillon byte .jpg had drizzled into my browser, I > abandoned it. > > Us poor deprived dial-up folks are sure getting to be left behind in > the Brave New Bandwidth World... sigh. > > > Honestly though... you might want to consider cutting the resolution > and size a bit. The files are just too big for my particular patience > threshold, (not to mention 1/2 again bigger than my screen) YMMV! It's not just you, John. I'm on DSL here and they still take several minutes per pic to land. However, Mike did say he's still learning to use his camera so it's not like he's posting massive pix for the hell of it. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From tomerg at bigmail.co.il Tue Jan 28 23:38:37 2003 From: tomerg at bigmail.co.il (Tomer Gabel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <007b01c2c65f$30e5bb30$0201c80a@vic20> ... Leisure Suit Larry 1, too. For that matter they also remade LSL6 in SVGA-mode with full speech. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of vance@neurotica.com > Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 5:54 AM > To: Ed Chapel > Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Sierra Adventure Games > > > > You know there was a Sierra VGA remake of KQ1, right? > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Sun, 26 Jan 2003, Ed Chapel wrote: > > > Remember the early Kings Quest series of adventure games? > > KQ1 has been remade for VGA graphics by a group called > Tierra Entertainment. > > They are doing a terrific job of rebuilding the games. > Same great gameplay. > > The remade version is a free download and works fine in Windows. > > > > KQ1 site: http://www.qknowledge.net/royalquest/KQ1index.htm > > Tierra main site: http://www.qknowledge.net/royalquest/index.html > > > > Ed > > Vancouver, WA From ygehrich at yahoo.com Tue Jan 28 23:40:07 2003 From: ygehrich at yahoo.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: TI 99/4A Power Supply Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030127225644.02281f28@pop.mail.yahoo.com> I have a number of TI power supplies Texas Instruments Power Supply - Model AC 9131 IP 120va 60hz 6 watts OP 3.3vac 500ma Texas Instruments Power Supply - Model AC 9132 IP 120va 60hz 6 watts OP 5.7vac 240ma Texas Instrument Power Supply Model AC 9180 IP 120vac 50/60hz 5w OP 9.5vdc 50ma Which is the correct Power Supply for the TI 99/4A What TI machines are the others for? From shawnmhoffman at yahoo.com Tue Jan 28 23:41:34 2003 From: shawnmhoffman at yahoo.com (Shawn H.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: (Thanks to everybody for the info) Little old Apple computer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030128043652.27573.qmail@web12304.mail.yahoo.com> Hello everybody, I just wanted to say thanks to everybody for all the info about the little Apple computer. Now that I know more about it I might want to buy it myself. ;-) I also thought I should maybe mention that my uncle wasn't drafted. He was in guards and now he has been taken into active duty. Thankfully he hasn't been sent overseas yet though; we're praying that he won't be. Thanks everybody, Shawn Brian Chase wrote:On Sun, 26 Jan 2003, Shawn H. wrote: > Hey, my aunt and uncle were given a little old apple computer and I > don't think they use it at all. I don't know what model it is, but I > know it's ancient. It has a little tiny monitor with a green display. > I think the brains of the computer are inside the keyboard........like > the old Commadore 64s. The disk drive might be inside the keyboard as > well. I only looked at it once and I wasn't really trying to find out > what kind of computer it was so I don't know much about it yet. It sounds a lot like it's an Apple IIc or maybe a IIc+. Really great little computers, but not worth all the much. Maybe $10-$30 depending on the condition--possibly a bit more if you can find someone who really wants one badly. > If this computer sounds like it might be worth something to someone > out there, let me know and I can find out more about it. My aunt and > uncle are having kind of hard times because my uncle has been taken > into the army and I'm quite sure they would be glad to sell the > computer to someone if it's worth something. What, they've reinstated the draft?! I didn't even know we were at war (yet). -brian. From vance at neurotica.com Tue Jan 28 23:43:01 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: Removing Duct Tape Residue In-Reply-To: <1fd601c2c686$5cc61d40$6401a8c0@kc.rr.com> Message-ID: You can even use something more gentle like corn oil. Peace... Sridhar On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, Douglas Wood wrote: > Try "Goo Gone" or "Goof Off". > > Douglas Wood > Software Engineer > dbwood@kc.rr.com > ICQ#: 143841506 > > Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC > http://epicis.piclist.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Christopher McNabb" > To: > Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 9:28 PM > Subject: Removing Duct Tape Residue > > > > While out in Idaho picking up a PDP-11/83 I also managed to pick up a > > working LA-100 at a government surplus place. It had a piece of duct > > tape stuck to the clear plastic cover with the word "Spare" written on > > it. Anyone know of a good way to remove the remaining duct tape residue > > from the cover? > > > > -- > > Christopher L McNabb > > Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net > > Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N > > GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From antikgmbh at compuserve.com Tue Jan 28 23:44:35 2003 From: antikgmbh at compuserve.com (ANTIK) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: Looking for DEC parts Message-ID: <3E363FA7.C520253E@compuserve.com> Hello, I found your e-mail address after searching for the DEC part# 21-15542-01 on the "googles" platform. We are a German independent distributor and looking for several DEC parts for our customer. May you can help ??? These are the parts we are looking for: 5 pcs. DEC 21-17311-01 or 21-17311-02 2 pcs. DEC 21-17312-00 or 21-17312-01 2 pcs. DEC 57-00001-01 2 pcs. DEC 57-00000-01 2 pcs. DEC 21-15542-01 Any luck for us ?? Thank you for a short notice. Best regards Erika Antik Elektronik-Vertriebs-GmbH Tel: +49 4191 89441 Fax: +49 4191 89337 From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Jan 28 23:46:06 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: Seeking manual for the Jupiter 4000 In-Reply-To: <001301c2c6a2$0e9d8100$0200000a@p166mmx> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Kurtk7 > Sent: 28 January 2003 07:51 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Seeking manual for the Jupiter 4000 > > > I hate to belabor the request, but I really need a manual to the Jupiter > 4000. Does anyone have any suggestions, I would really > appreciate any help > in locating a copy. Instead of belabouring why don't you do what I've just done and google for 'jupiter ace programming in forth', which returns many hits related to the little white beastie. An introduction to FORTH can be found here: http://hem.passagen.se/tiletech/forth.htm and there are many others. -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From echafe at roadrunner.nf.net Tue Jan 28 23:47:38 2003 From: echafe at roadrunner.nf.net (Eric) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: Miniscribe 3650 Message-ID: <000801c2c6ba$2683be20$0a00a8c0@duron> Hi I need a Miniscribe 3650 hard drive or the logic board for one any suggestions would be appreciated Eric From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Jan 28 23:49:08 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: Mitsumi Transport-loading CD In-Reply-To: <20030127030441.DWUQ13282.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: This is mainly for Phil Pemberton, but for everyone else who's never seen a CD player like this before it's worth taking a look at :) Must've been the only way of keeping costs down back in those days since the only 2 motors needed were the transport and head motors; everything else required wetware to function correctly. http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/traycd.html cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Jan 28 23:50:56 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: FW: Are you interested in an old computer? Message-ID: Hi folks, Old Amstrad available for quite possibly nothing apart from shipping. Looks like it's the PC1512DD model since it doesn't have a hard drive. I haven't asked him if he'd consider shipping to the US, but if he's going to pack it up anyway the destination doesn't really matter :) Please contact the seller directly. witchy -----Original Message----- From: David Errock [mailto:david@errock.co.uk] Sent: 26 January 2003 20:41 To: witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk Subject: Are you interested in an old computer? Adrian, I have an Amstrad PC1512 computer (complete with original manual and Amstrad system disks in original plastic pack) with mono screen and two 5" floppy disk drives (the disk drives are not identical, even though they were both "factory fitted") in a clean condition. It still works. I do have the cardboard boxes, but no polystyrene, and the cardboard is not in a good state! Are you interested in this? It seems a shame to throw it in the bin even though it is useless. Regards, David Errock david@errock.co.uk From jss at subatomix.com Tue Jan 28 23:54:18 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: ADMIN: Demime is now active Message-ID: <1311756925.20030128223246@subatomix.com> By popular demand, Jay and I have set up demime on the ClassicCmp server, and all posts are being filtered through it. From here on out, all posts you get from CC will be in plain text, with no attachments or HTML. If you send file attachments, they will be removed from your post. If you post anything other than plain text messages, plain text will be extracted or rendered as appropriate. Even HTML-only or RTF-only mail is rendered into plain text. Demime tries very hard to convert your post into plain text, but if it simply cannot, it will bounce your post. You don't need to change anything. This change should be totally transparent to all subscribers. Just keep posting or lurking as you always have. A round of thanks goes out to all who suggested the use of a tool like demime. For more information about demime, you may wish to visit its web site: http://scifi.squawk.com/demime.html -- Jeffrey Sharp From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jan 28 23:59:00 2003 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: ADMIN: Demime is now active In-Reply-To: <1311756925.20030128223246@subatomix.com> from Jeffrey Sharp at "Jan 28, 3 10:32:46 pm" Message-ID: <200301290612.WAA12616@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > By popular demand, Jay and I have set up demime on the ClassicCmp server, Nice. Thanks! -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Adore, v.: To venerate expectantly. -- Ambrose Bierce ---------------------- From n8uhn at yahoo.com Wed Jan 29 00:23:00 2003 From: n8uhn at yahoo.com (Bill Allen Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: sys 36 software Message-ID: <20030129062705.73740.qmail@web40712.mail.yahoo.com> interesting list System Support Programs> got it Utilities RPG II > got it Cobol Mcode > got it Display Write 36 Display Write Language Dictionary Business Graphics Utility Personal Services 36 Query 36 PC Support 36 > got it Additional SSP> NEED IT Base Communications> got it 3270 Device Emulation> got it MSRJE> got it - what is it? Display Station Pass-Through> got it Tape Support> got it PTF's> heave a few of those wow nice list but no basic or diags - wierd - daigs came with every system - unless some paranoid sysop destroyed them when parting with the system. diags are NOT covered in the license agreement - they are part of the machine! btw - on a 5360 there is a plate covering a storage area above the circuit breaker on the rear right of the machine - undo four screws and see if the ibm ce left the diag diskettes in there ;) Bill Message: 35 Subject: Re: ibm sys/36 5360 basic needed From: "Colin Eby" To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:34:47 -0500 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Bill -- FYI, some 8" floppy based software just turned up on ePay. Item 2304666096. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2304666096&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1 They've got pretty much everything except what you were after. I've been bidding on it myself. In fact I've gone as far as a hundred bucks. If I'm bidding against anyone on the list maybe we can come to some co-purchase agreement before my media lust gets the better of my fiduciary responsibility. I already have quite a lot of it. System Support Programs Utilities RPG II Cobol Mcode Display Write 36 Display Write Language Dictionary Business Graphics Utility Personal Services 36 Query 36 PC Support 36 Additional SSP Base Communications 3270 Device Emulation MSRJE Display Station Pass-Through Tape Support PTF's - Colin Eby From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Wed Jan 29 00:50:01 2003 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: Removing duct tape residue. In-Reply-To: <11610566233.20030128221255@subatomix.com> References: <005e01c2c73b$b257c690$6401a8c0@benchbox> <11610566233.20030128221255@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <64154.62.148.198.97.1043823193.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Jeffrey Sharp said: > that situation three or four times. I fear and HATE bugs. The last time I > used WD-40 on a wasp, I also emptied an upside-down can of air on it as it > was dying. The bug had spent the previous *hour* terrifying me. > Next time make it more fun; apply a lit cigarette lighter on the spray just after the nozzle. Watch wasp burn, take care the plastic nozzle doesn't. Ah, the stupid things you do as a kid. On topic: I sometimes remote those nasty stickers that-you-just-can't-remove by heating them up (carefully) with a cigarette lighter. It works wonders especially if the sticker is old. -- jht From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Jan 29 01:59:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: Tamper proof tools In-Reply-To: <003801c2c754$f848dc20$0264640a@auradon.com> References: <003801c2c754$f848dc20$0264640a@auradon.com> Message-ID: <32819.64.169.63.74.1043827338.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Speaking of tamper-proof screws, does anyone know the name for the ones that need a triangular-tip bit/driver? It's not a tri-wing, since it doesn't have "wings". Just a triangular hole in the head. I've got square bits. I think there's a name for those, but I've forgotten it. I've also seen some screw heads that have three tiny round holes, arranged in a triangular pattern. From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Jan 29 02:03:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: Looking for DEC parts In-Reply-To: <3E363FA7.C520253E@compuserve.com> References: <3E363FA7.C520253E@compuserve.com> Message-ID: <32824.64.169.63.74.1043827622.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > These are the parts we are looking for: > > 5 pcs. DEC 21-17311-01 or 21-17311-02 > 2 pcs. DEC 21-17312-00 or 21-17312-01 > 2 pcs. DEC 57-00001-01 > 2 pcs. DEC 57-00000-01 > 2 pcs. DEC 21-15542-01 > > Any luck for us ?? You might be more likely to get a useful response if you told us what those parts are. I've got a lot of parts, but I don't have any inventory by part number. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jan 29 02:14:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: ADMIN: Demime is now active In-Reply-To: Jeffrey Sharp "ADMIN: Demime is now active" (Jan 28, 22:32) References: <1311756925.20030128223246@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <10301290817.ZM7462@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 28, 22:32, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > By popular demand, Jay and I have set up demime on the ClassicCmp server, > and all posts are being filtered through it. From here on out, all posts you > get from CC will be in plain text, with no attachments or HTML. Thank you! That's a great idea. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 29 04:41:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: Tamper proof tools In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Vulcanjedi Classic wrote: > From: "Sue & Francois" > > > Yep there they are again :) Now that I have a few names to search with > > I can find exactly what I need. But at $15 a piece that makes it > > spendy at the moment. But hey it's for the nomad after all... :) > > The security bits used to open Sega and Nintendo items are 4.5mm and > 3.8mm inverted torx bits. www.mcmelectronics.com part numbers 22-1150 > and 22-1145 and they are listed at $1.99 each. They also have the tri > wing bits that open gamecube and gameboy stuff. They are also a source > for replacement cartridge edge connectors and other video game hardware. Note that those are not inverted torx bits. They are actually the external linehead type that I mentioned in a previous email. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jan 29 04:54:00 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: Removing duct tape residue. In-Reply-To: <3E37320D.40306@eoni.com> References: <3E37320D.40306@eoni.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Jim Arnott wrote: > For cleaning computer plastics, the absolute best product I've found (in > the US) is Hoppe's No. 9 Powder Solvent. Found at your local sporting > goods store. Even removes PERMANENT Sharpie. Has anyone tried removing Sharpie from a chassis with textured paint? I have a couple of items that were marked up with a Sharpie, and short of paint thinner (which seems to dilute and bury the ink in the paint while damaging the texture), I've found nothing that seems to work. -Toth From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Wed Jan 29 05:58:00 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: Removing duct tape residue. In-Reply-To: References: <3E37320D.40306@eoni.com> <3E37320D.40306@eoni.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030129063948.00a1c060@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> I've cleaned up permanent magic marker off white and beige plastic computer components with virtually 100% success with the following methods. Obviously first make sure the item is turned off / unplugged / cooled off / discharged / etc. I use 100% concentration denatured ethyl alcohol to remove as much of the marker markings as possible. It will take a lot off and leave the markings much fainter. Then I wet another paper towel with the alcohol and sprinkle ajax or comet cleanser on it and then scrub till it's off. This scrubbing mixture scrubs off tape's adhesive residue very well also. I use pure white cloth like paper towels, not printed, so the ink of printed paper towel's printing doesn't end up back on the item. If it's something that can be disassembled so that the plastic part can be put in a deep sink ( or bathtub ) , I do that with a dishwashing scrub brush first covered with straight dishwashing detergent and then heavily sprinkled with ajax or comet. It makes a thick paste at first and stays in place as you scrub. To get marker off painted metal, I use acetone. Use in well ventilated area ( outside? ) with no source of ignition anywhere near. It will take a little of the paint layer off, so don't rub in one spot too long. It may be changing the texture, but to me that's better than the marker markings. You might not want to do this to valuable "collectibles", but it was ok for what I was cleaning. At 05:06 AM 1/29/03 -0600, you wrote: >On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Jim Arnott wrote: > > > For cleaning computer plastics, the absolute best product I've found (in > > the US) is Hoppe's No. 9 Powder Solvent. Found at your local sporting > > goods store. Even removes PERMANENT Sharpie. > >Has anyone tried removing Sharpie from a chassis with textured paint? I >have a couple of items that were marked up with a Sharpie, and short of >paint thinner (which seems to dilute and bury the ink in the paint while >damaging the texture), I've found nothing that seems to work. > >-Toth From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Jan 29 07:14:00 2003 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: Miniscribe 3650 References: <000801c2c6ba$2683be20$0a00a8c0@duron> Message-ID: <000701c2c798$d200f630$0300a8c0@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 9:13 PM Subject: Miniscribe 3650 > Hi > I need a Miniscribe 3650 hard drive or the logic board for one > any suggestions would be appreciated I had a couple of those. The usual fault is the stepper control chips dying. If you can source them you can usually repair the board. Did a couple that way some time back. Don't have any now though. The board around the chips is discoloured by heat, and there are often dry joints as well. Geoff in Oz From ceby2 at csc.com Wed Jan 29 07:49:00 2003 From: ceby2 at csc.com (Colin Eby) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: ibm sys/36 5360 basic needed Message-ID: Bill - The tape drives are Reel 2 Reel (of course) I've been thinking of keeping one of those for show, but if I get a taker for the system I'll have to leave that up to them.  As to the 5363... are you sure you're not confusing that with the 5364. That really was a PC sized machine, and one I'm definitely after. It came bundled with an IBM PC (model 5560 I think) which acted as the console. The 5363 is nearly the size of the 5362. It looks like a first generation AS/400. They both use the 5 1/4" disks.  As to keeping the 5360, well you're right about the 8" media being more common. But then, the 5362 takes the same media, and is about 1/10 the size. In fact it's just as powerful processor wise. The difference is a smaller card cage and smaller disk capacity. The 5360 I have has at least 4 of those 19" platter disks. The 5362 take up to 2 of the 14" variety. I have just the one in the 5362. And no-one's prying the '62 from my cold dead fingers. The biggest challenge I have with that is modifying the power supply when, as is the plan, I move over to the UK. It's wired for 110v only. The 5360 is strickly 220, and it may even be three phase. I don't honestly recall. On to the PC file copy utility: I'm afraid it's one of the feature sets I don't have media for. I do have an emulator card set up. Just to make it interesting, I'm using a MCA version plugged into an IBM PS/2 Model 70 Luggable running OS/2 (just wanted to tick off as many obscure IBM technology boxes as possible). No problem with the workstation connectivity (so long as the couplers joining the 4 pieces of phone cord from the study to the living room don't pull loose, he he). But without the feature set on the host, there's no copying capability. There's media going, but it's fetching a really good price (see my note about the e-Pay auction). -Colin  ceby2@csc.com Senior Consultant National Performance Engineeering Practice CSC Consulting  From RCini at congressfinancial.com Wed Jan 29 07:54:01 2003 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: Model 100 DVI drive Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E51273D5@MAIL10> Bill: I don't have a CoCo, but I do have a DVI. So I was going to raid the drive from an external CoCo drive that I somehow got and use it in the DVI. I was concerned more with electrical compatibility than software compatibility. I didn't realize that in those machines Tandy used standard floppy drives. I guess by that point in time, many manufacturers (except Apple and Commodore) standardized on an IBM-style drives rather than proprietary setups. I'm sure I'm over-generalizing and will start a sprightly discussion on disk formats :-) Thanks to all who responded. Rich -----Original Message----- From: Bill Allen Jr [mailto:n8uhn@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:14 AM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Model 100 DVI drive I cannot remember what the model 100 used for a drive. the coco and coco 2/3 both used standard (ibm compatable) mfm, 5 1/4 in, single sided, low density floppy drives. the card edge connector for the coco cable between the interface cart and floppy was a streight thru cable - (pin 1 went to pin 1 etc). i have used standard 360k floppys on the coco - it only uses one side of the diskette for 180k. if the model 100 has the same pinout and uses a standard mfm dirve it should work. btw the coco drive case did have a power supply in it for the drive - power did not come from the cart. Bill Message: 36 From: "Cini, Richard" To: "CCTech (E-mail)" Subject: Model 100 DVI drive Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:55:53 -0500 Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Hello, all: Does anyone know if the specs on the Model 100 Disk-Video Interface is the same as the CoCo disks? I have a single-drive DVI and a single low-profile CoCo disk drive. They physically look to be the same but I wanted to be sure before I lashed them together. Thanks. Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. First Vice President Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) End of cctech Digest From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 29 07:56:43 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: Removing duct tape residue. In-Reply-To: <64154.62.148.198.97.1043823193.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> References: <11610566233.20030128221255@subatomix.com> <005e01c2c73b$b257c690$6401a8c0@benchbox> <11610566233.20030128221255@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030129085335.11e774ee@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:53 AM 1/29/03 +0200, you wrote: > >On topic: I sometimes remote those nasty stickers that-you-just-can't-remove >by heating them up (carefully) with a cigarette lighter. It works wonders >especially if the sticker is old. I've found that it really helps if you warm up the sticker and surrounding area and THEN apply your favorite goo remover. The heat definitely helps out. (Don't apply the remover and then try heating it since most of them are flamable.) I use a temperature controlled hot air gun for this sort of thing. In fact, I've found lots of uses for the thing. It's not something that you'd think of as necessary but I've found lots of uses for it. For one thing, it's great for removing parts from circuit boards in a hurry without damaging them or the board. Covering the area with aluminium foil after you apply the goo remover helps too. A lot of the removers will evaporate rather quickly and the foil retards the evaporation. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 29 07:58:11 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: Tamper proof tools In-Reply-To: <32819.64.169.63.74.1043827338.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com > References: <003801c2c754$f848dc20$0264640a@auradon.com> <003801c2c754$f848dc20$0264640a@auradon.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030129090207.11e7da6e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:02 AM 1/29/03 -0800, you wrote: >Speaking of tamper-proof screws, does anyone know the name for the >ones that need a triangular-tip bit/driver? It's not a tri-wing, since >it doesn't have "wings". Just a triangular hole in the head. Lara tools just calls them triangular resess. > >I've got square bits. I think there's a name for those, but I've >forgotten it. In Canada they call those Robertson bits. They use them a lot more than we do in the US. The last time I was up there they were using them for dry wall screws, installing electrical boxs in houses, etc. >I've also seen some screw heads that have three tiny round holes, arranged >in a triangular pattern. I've never seen those or the tools to R/R them (and I have a BOX full of bits). I'm guessing that they're proprietary to one company. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 29 07:59:38 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: Removing duct tape residue. In-Reply-To: References: <3E37320D.40306@eoni.com> <3E37320D.40306@eoni.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030129090404.0f6f6f82@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:06 AM 1/29/03 -0600, Toth wrote: > >> For cleaning computer plastics, the absolute best product I've found (in >> the US) is Hoppe's No. 9 Powder Solvent. Found at your local sporting >> goods store. Even removes PERMANENT Sharpie. > >Has anyone tried removing Sharpie from a chassis with textured paint? I >have a couple of items that were marked up with a Sharpie, and short of >paint thinner (which seems to dilute and bury the ink in the paint while >damaging the texture), I've found nothing that seems to work. I've used alcohol on that stuff and it seems to remove some but not all of it. I've never found anything that would remove it completely. Joe From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jan 29 08:02:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: ADMIN: Demime is now active In-Reply-To: <1311756925.20030128223246@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > By popular demand, Jay and I have set up demime on the ClassicCmp server, Yay!! Thank you. Doc From charlesmorris at direcway.com Wed Jan 29 08:03:27 2003 From: charlesmorris at direcway.com (Charles) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: DEC card handles In-Reply-To: <20030129051412.62299.28763.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20030129051412.62299.28763.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:14:12 -0600, you wrote: >It would be nice to find a source of the DEC plastic module handles, >and the metal stiffener/ejector handles used on DEC hex-height modules. >But I'm not holding my breath for those, either. Have you tried Douglas Electronics? They have handles (not original DEC colors but a strange whitish color) and prototyping cards of all sizes. http://www.douglas.com/hardware/pcbs/breadboards/digital.html -Charles From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jan 29 08:26:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: slightly newer Apple stuff... Message-ID: <20030129142936.27593.qmail@web21101.mail.yahoo.com> thanks to everyone for the website pointers! I've just tried the three systems and they all seem to work; unfortunately the LC and the Performa have been cleared of application software, but the Mac II stil has Word on it. Word feels faster to use on that than the modern version on my 1GHz PC - progress, huh!? :-) > The Mac II has a port for a second (external) floppy. yes, this one has both an 800K and 1.4MB drive installed. Not sure what speed the CPU is yet, I haven't dug around inside too much. > These machines can run up to MacOS 7.6.1 but > are quicker and more at home with 7.5.3 or even 6.0.8, which is quite speedy > on even machines as slow as these. Do you plan to display them, actually > use 'em or what? I have a slew of parts and old drives and whatnot for these > machines - the drive's usually what goes on them. well I'm not short of spare SCSI drives if you mean the hard disc, but floppies are another matter. I put SCSI in any PCs that I build so I have a stack of older drives spare as a result of upgrades. What I don't have is any OS or application software for these critters, so when the disks fail I'm currently stuffed. I haven't tried any of the floppy drives yet to see if they work... I'll probably pass a couple of the machines on to a good home in a few weeks as I don't really have space for everything; I was just curious about them as I haven't used macs for about ten years now. Strangely enough, I used to live around here and I've just found at that the mac II is the very same machine that I used to use at college! Funny seeing it again - I bet it's changed hands a few times in the meantime... Not sure which system I'll hang on to yet... the II has the advantage of having ethernet and the twin drives, plus the application software - but the LC III is perhaps the more usable machine if I can get software for it and get it on the ethernet LAN somehow. With a copy of Word on it I'd probably use it now and then; I'd forgotten how nice those keyboards were and it certainly feels like a quick machine for its age. > By the way: check the motherboard battery to make sure it's live (3.6v > lithium). I noticed those on the boards. They seem to be OK, at least no complaints on startup... cheers Jules Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 29 09:08:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games In-Reply-To: <007b01c2c65f$30e5bb30$0201c80a@vic20> Message-ID: <20030129151106.75364.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tomer Gabel wrote: > ... Leisure Suit Larry 1, too. Hey! I still have LSL1 1.0 - 5.25" original disks, not a copy (fished it out of a pile of debris left by a departing college student a number of years ago) It's... um... a *classic*! -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 29 09:15:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: Digital AXPpci33 "noname" questions In-Reply-To: <3E349A2B.4000802@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20030129151833.60723.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Stan Pietkiewicz wrote: > I found the .pdf OEM design guide.... The maximum tested memory is 4 * > 64MB SIMMS for a total of 256MB. The NT / Unix differences were in the > minimum recommended: 16 MB for NT, and 32 MB for Digital Unix. Hmm... I have located a total of 4 x 32MB parity SIMMs and I'm at 128MB at the moment. My experiments with 64MB SIMMs have been less successful. I have two flavors - a pair of "Simple Technology" SIMMs with 36 16Mbit chips and nothing else, and several pairs of SIMMs with 36 16MBit chips and a single logic IC per side. All "work", but are recognized at 16Mbytes, not 64MBytes. These 64MByte SIMMs were all out of "CompuHosts" - the 32-bit servers that were in use at CompuServe from about 1994 through 2000. Also called "silver bullets", they are in custom enclosures with beefy, non-commodity power supplies, and sit two-to-a-shelf, side-by-side in a *24"* rack (not 19"). Got a couple of shelves, but no racks. Anyway, these SIMMs work in AIR-brand PC motherboards (single 486, single and dual Pentium) and just about nothing else that I've found. Seems that few machines added support for 16Mbit chips in their memory controllers. Any clues as to how many varieties of 64MByte 72-pin SIMMs are out there? -ethan From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Jan 29 09:41:01 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: Model 100 DVI drive In-Reply-To: <01C2C6DA.2EBB6B40@mse-d03> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030129103849.02df8f78@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that M H Stein may have mentioned these words: >From: "Cini, Richard" > > Does anyone know if the specs on the Model 100 Disk-Video Interface >is the same as the CoCo disks? I have a single-drive DVI and a single >low-profile CoCo disk drive. They physically look to be the same but I >wanted to be sure before I lashed them together. Depends... ;-) The DVI wants a "standard" 34-pin interface MFM SSDD 40-track drive -- the original CoCo drives were 35-track SSDD drives. If you put one of *these* drives in the DVI, you will most surely hear bad clunking noises when you try to format your first disk. The CoCo slimline drives came in 3 flavors: The FD-500, which was 35-track SSDD (bad) the FD-501 which was 40 track SSDD (which is OK), and the FD-502 which was 40-track DSDD (which side 1 will go unused, but should work fine). I have a DVI as well, but I don't have a boot disk or interface cable for my Tandy 200... so I have yet to use it. Hope this helps! Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From cb at mythtech.net Wed Jan 29 10:15:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games Message-ID: >> ... Leisure Suit Larry 1, too. > >Hey! I still have LSL1 1.0 - 5.25" original disks, not a copy (fished it >out of a pile of debris left by a departing college student a number of >years ago) > >It's... um... a *classic*! Ah, but do you have "SoftPorn" the game that LSL-1 was a rip off of? I played that on my Apple II eons ago (I just saw it on one of the game archive links that passed thru this list recently in anyone wanted to DL it) -chris From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Wed Jan 29 11:36:00 2003 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: Pinout for HP 2629b terminal? In-Reply-To: <200301281945.h0SJjiMX027254@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <20030122084842.T25853-100000@agora.rdrop.com> <200301221807.h0MI7KlQ053866@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <20030124090452.Q50656-100000@agora.rdrop.com> <200301242104.h0OL4VNG008024@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <20030127090614.H92112-100000@agora.rdrop.com> <200301271949.h0RJnhSH082900@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <20030128105130.R74769-100000@agora.rdrop.com> <200301281945.h0SJjiMX027254@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <20030129093850.J26136-100000@agora.rdrop.com> On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Frank McConnell wrote: > Jim Willing wrote: > > Well... eight 'arrow' keys (I think, I'm not in front of it at the > > moment) with the 'usual' up, down, left, right... then diagonal (???) > > keys, and some have the legend 'roll' on them as well... > > > I think it has its proper keyboard, but it has no numeric pad. Did note > > an alternate numeric set in the alpha keys similar to some keypunch > > machines... > > These make me think that it is a 2621-style keyboard. Sorry, like I > wrote before, the 2621 wasn't capable of running VPLUS applications > and so it was sort of shunned at the PPOE where we had one. But I > remember it had a single group of keys with the cursor keys right > above the numeric keys (and I think doing double duty as function keys, > albeit non-programmable function keys). Interesting... tho the cursor keys on this one are in two banks of four each, horizontally above the alpha keys. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From rhudson at cnonline.net Wed Jan 29 11:53:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: To: TONY DUELL In-Reply-To: <001001c2c711$188165a0$de020202@reguser> Message-ID: <496407FA-33B3-11D7-A92C-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> The whole 'synthetic programming' field on the hp41C. I think there were also some strange instruction on the 25c that you somehow got by reducing the battery voltage with a pot until the calculator started hallucinating. On Tuesday, January 28, 2003, at 01:06 PM, DEAN wrote: > What undocumented instructions in HP calculators... > Got an example > > Yours Truly > Dean Lampman From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 29 12:00:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: Model 100 DVI drive In-Reply-To: <01C2C6DA.2EBB6B40@mse-d03> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, M H Stein wrote: > Hi Rich: > I can't answer your question, but I do have a DVI and the manual and s/w, > if that can help you in any way. It runs CP/M IIRC. > And if anybody's interested, make me an offer... > mike in Toronto, Can. Could you check the manual, and confirm that it runs CP/M? All of the ones that we've ever seen ran a unique OS, with a directory structure based on the Microsoft stand-alone-BASIC. A CP/M for it would significantly increase the desirability of it. From jrice54 at charter.net Wed Jan 29 12:10:00 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: TAMPER PROOF TOOLS Message-ID: <3E381979.2040209@charter.net> During my electrican days, we used screw heads like that to secure light fixture covers in jail cells. They were the standard screw on jail rate fixtures. Those fixtures used a welded frame with 1" thick lexan lenses. James >>I've also seen some screw heads that have three tiny round holes, arranged >>>in a triangular pattern. > > > I've never seen those or the tools to R/R them (and I have a BOX full of bits). I'm guessing that they're proprietary to one company. > > > Joe > ` From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Jan 29 12:50:01 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: Tamper proof tools In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030129090207.11e7da6e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <32819.64.169.63.74.1043827338.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com > Message-ID: <3E37CF74.1376.B256E45@localhost> On 29 Jan 2003, , Joe wrote: > At 12:02 AM 1/29/03 -0800, you wrote: > >Speaking of tamper-proof screws, does anyone know the name > >for the ones that need a triangular-tip bit/driver? It's > >not a tri-wing, since it doesn't have "wings". Just a > >triangular hole in the head. > > Lara tools just calls them triangular resess. > > > > > > >I've got square bits. I think there's a name for those, > >but I've forgotten it. > > In Canada they call those Robertson bits. They use them a > lot more than we do in the US. The last time I was up > there they were using them for dry wall screws, installing > electrical boxs in houses, etc. > > Joe I use Robertson screws all the time. I have yet to have one strip when removing them. They come in at least 3 sizes and the screwdrivers are color coded according to size. Black, Red,and Green. Can't remember the dimensions. Many manufacturers are now supplying them in dual Roberson, blade form. Lawrence lgwalker@ mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Jan 29 12:51:52 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:14 2005 Subject: TI 99/4A Power Supply In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030127225644.02281f28@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E37CF74.28846.B256E6D@localhost> On 27 Jan 2003, , Gene Ehrich wrote: > I have a number of TI power supplies > > Texas Instruments Power Supply - Model AC 9131 > IP 120va 60hz 6 watts OP 3.3vac 500ma > > Texas Instruments Power Supply - Model AC 9132 > IP 120va 60hz 6 watts OP 5.7vac 240ma > > Texas Instrument Power Supply Model AC 9180 > IP 120vac 50/60hz 5w OP 9.5vdc 50ma > > Which is the correct Power Supply for the TI 99/4A > > What TI machines are the others for? I would have to say none of the above are for TI99/4A. Mine uses a Model AC 9500 with a 4-pin plug. IP 120 v 40 W OP 1 18 VAC 1.35 amps OP 2 8.5 VAC 150 ma. Don't have a clue what the ones you have are for. Lawrence lgwalker@ mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Jan 29 12:53:20 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: Sharp PC 3100 w/ fdd on UK Epay Message-ID: <3E37CF74.26482.B256E22@localhost> For those in Europe there's a Sharp 3100 with the very rare floppy dd on UK EPay. Has display problems but likely not hard to fix. They are similiar to the HP 100s handhelds and take the same memory card. Also seems to have the proprietory laplink cable and the manual. 2Megs memory on board. Has DOS 3 in ram. I'd kill to find one this side of the pond but overall cost would likely be too pricey for me. It's presently at 16 lbs with 8 days to go. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&categor y=3728&item=3003997495 I have no connection with the seller. Lawrence lgwalker@ mts.net From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jan 29 12:56:00 2003 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Jules=20Richardson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: ADMIN: Demime is now active Message-ID: <20030129185923.10572.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com> > By popular demand, Jay and I have set up demime on the ClassicCmp server, absolutely brilliant!! Can you set something up to automatically strip off my yahoo .sig too? ;-) cheers! Jules Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From alderney at telusplanet.net Wed Jan 29 12:57:37 2003 From: alderney at telusplanet.net (alderney@telusplanet.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: looking for DEC parts In-Reply-To: <20030129051412.62299.28763.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20030129051412.62299.28763.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <1043866805.3e3824b5ed06d@webmail.telusplanet.net> It would be easier if you specified what these parts were - a lot of us don't have manuals etc, so we end up looking at the numbers on the boards or other components. Don W > Message: 26 > Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:30:31 +0100 > From: ANTIK > Organization: ANTIK > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Looking for DEC parts > Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Hello, > > I found your e-mail address after searching for the DEC part# > 21-15542-01 on the "googles" platform. > > We are a German independent distributor and looking for several DEC > parts for our customer. > May you can help ??? > > These are the parts we are looking for: > > 5 pcs. DEC 21-17311-01 or 21-17311-02 > 2 pcs. DEC 21-17312-00 or 21-17312-01 > 2 pcs. DEC 57-00001-01 > 2 pcs. DEC 57-00000-01 > 2 pcs. DEC 21-15542-01 > > Any luck for us ?? > > Thank you for a short notice. > Best regards > Erika > Antik Elektronik-Vertriebs-GmbH > Tel: +49 4191 89441 > Fax: +49 4191 89337 > > --__--__-- From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Wed Jan 29 13:01:00 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: Overlays, GKS... (Was: Re: New to list) References: <036001c2c417$12af85a0$0200a8c0@cosmo> <3E32B318.907FCC4C@Vishay.com> <3E341CB4.363B3474@compsys.to> <3E357AC4.8020509@Vishay.com> <3E35AA23.8DE1E590@compsys.to> <3E366764.7000503@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <3E38250D.7F07065A@compsys.to> >Andreas Freiherr wrote: > Jerome, > never mind: Jerome Fine replies: I am not sure what you are referring to. But if you don't remember, not a problem with me. > > Also, no one else seems to care about it in any case. > As far as I am concerned, I have RT-11 documentation and a little bit of > experience with some of the monitors (see? - I even know there are > different monitor flavors ;-)), but my preferred system has been RSX: > also full set of docs available, but multitasking and multi-user > protection is something that would require TSX if I were on the RT-11 track. While TSX-PLUS certainly can satisfy that requirement, the license for the product is rather expensive. I don't know if they have a hobby program, but I have not heard of one - although they did have a demo license that allowed 30 minutes of usage at a time. Fortunately, I do have my own license for V6.5 TSX-PLUS so I am able to run it when I used to have a contract that used TSX-PLUS over 5 years ago. If it was helpful, I could make sure that the multi-tasking and multi-user aspects were working correctly. > Not that I regularly use multiple terminals at the same time, but I also > have a PBX system at home, where I live alone. That is a bit funny. On my PDP-11/83, I have SIX terminals sitting on my desk under RT-11 which has multi-terminal support in the monitor. I use RT11XM and run 5 KED sessions when I want to edit source code. 4 KED sessions look at the MACRO-11 listing and the BackGround job makes the actual changes. > So, it is not ignorance that makes me watch, but not participate. It is > just lack of time. I also have a lack of time - I am spending too much time on the IP rights issue with Bill Gunshannon. We obviously have a different point of view. > >>The basic kludge with the overlay tree, developed on RSX, was to create > >>a separate tree for the library: this made it easy to propose a > >>framework .ODL file that could be readily applied to any user program, > >>and then optimized for either space or speed. > > Any possibility that it can also be used under RT-11? > In fact, it was. If I ever get back to this project, I'll drop a note > here, of course. THANK YOU. For the next few years, my primary focus will be with bug fixes and enhancements for RT-11 starting with Y2K/Y10K for V5.03 of RT-11. I intend to make sure that all of the code can be adapted to all versions from V5.03 to V5.07 so that in 10 years when Mentec finally gives up and allows hobby users full access, it will need very little change. A few other enhancements will be a PATH HANDLER, 256 RT-11 partitions, enhancements to the SL: in RT-11. I do have a question about the design and implementation. If you have some RT-11 understanding and a knowledge of the information kept in the fixed offsets from the start of RMON, could I ask you a question? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From dan at ekoan.com Wed Jan 29 13:18:00 2003 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: TI 99/4A Power Supply In-Reply-To: <3E37CF74.28846.B256E6D@localhost> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20030127225644.02281f28@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030129141527.04ad67b0@enigma> On 27 Jan 2003, Gene Ehrich wrote: > I have a number of TI power supplies The "wall warts" you have are for various older Texas Instruments calculators from the 1970s and 1980s, LED displays and all. > Texas Instruments Power Supply - Model AC 9131 High-end scientific, including the SR-51-II, TI-58 and TI-59. > Texas Instruments Power Supply - Model AC 9132 Cheaper scientific models, like the TI-30, SR-40, TI-55, TI-57, and a couple others. > Texas Instrument Power Supply Model AC 9180 Really cheap, basic models like the TI-1025, TI-1200, and TI-1400. > Which is the correct Power Supply for the TI 99/4A None of the ones you listed are for the TI-99/4A. I probably have a spare or two around here if you need one. Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 29 13:21:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: Model 100 DVI drive In-Reply-To: <20030129051345.64797.qmail@web40711.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Bill Allen Jr wrote: > I cannot remember what the model 100 used for a drive. There were several different ones. The DVI was a big box that, among other things, contained an industry standard halfheight 5.25" floppy drive. But the model 100 also had a few different external 3.5" drives that connected to the serial port. They did NOT use "standard" drive mechanisms. > the coco and coco 2/3 both used standard (ibm > compatable) mfm, 5 1/4 in, single sided, low density > floppy drives. Unlike Apple, Tandy (with the exception of the Model 100 3.5" drives) always used "standard" disk drives. From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Wed Jan 29 13:24:01 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: Y2K/Y10K for V5.03 of RT-11 References: <200301160416.XAA111413928@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <3E382B27.AF44376@compsys.to> >Megan wrote: > >I wanted to use the > >SET NEWFIX [OFF,ON,ALL] > >to control the use of all the the bug fixes and enhancements. > >This command could control the use of all of the changes > >made to programs with just one command. > When designing RT-11, we tried to limit SET options to be > only those things which choose between multiple options, not > whether something was 'fixed' or not. If it needs fixing, it > needs fixing and should be always on. > > I would hope this policy would be maintained, even if this > is a hobbyist effort, otherwise the spirit behind the way > things were done in RT is lost. Jerome Fine replies: Before I reply to your response, I believe it is more important to consider the other aspect in regard to what I stated in my post on Tuesday, January 14th, 2003 at about 10:00 P.M. my local time. The most important aspect that I felt needed to be addressed was the issue of all of the bug fixes being compatible all the way from V5.03 up to V5.07 of RT-11. Since that was the ONLY aspect that you commented upon last time, I suggest that it is important to first clear up that problem. Thus, IF you also agree: (a) That in order to be above reproach as far as Mentec is concerned, any changes which will be provided to the hobby users be ONLY for V5.03 of RT-11 until such time as Mentec allows at least V5.06 and preferably V5.07 for hobby use, and (b) Any changes which are introduced to V5.03 (I call them bug fixes) also be compatible all the way up to V5.07 of RT-11, and (c) All of the changes introduced to V5.03 also be capable of being added to V5.07 and made available to hobby users at a time when such is legally possible (actually, the changes can already be made available to hobby users, but V5.07 can't be as yet). Then I believe that the changes to V5.03 can be proceeded with and no problems should occur. At that point, how the changes are coded can be discussed. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 29 13:31:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: Mitsumi Transport-loading CD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: IIRC, the first CD-ROM drive that Radio Shack carried was a relabeled Mitsumi trasport loader (a top loading drive that slid most of the drive in and out of a holder to get access to it) It was hailed as a major breakthrough in price reduction. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 29 13:38:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: Model 100 DVI drive In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E51273D5@MAIL10> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Cini, Richard wrote: > I don't have a CoCo, but I do have a DVI. So I was going to raid the > drive from an external CoCo drive that I somehow got and use it in the DVI. If it's the right specs (NOT the 35 track one), it should be fine. Watch the termination and drive select. > I was concerned more with electrical compatibility than software > compatibility. I didn't realize that in those machines Tandy used standard > floppy drives. I guess by that point in time, many manufacturers (except > Apple and Commodore) standardized on an IBM-style drives rather than > proprietary setups. Except for the Model 100 "Portable disk drive"(s), all drives in TRS-80s were "industry standard". > I'm sure I'm over-generalizing and will start a sprightly discussion > on disk formats :-) Any time. But I'll have to dig out my notes for the DVI format. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jan 29 13:40:01 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: Mitsumi Transport-loading CD In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" at Jan 29, 2003 11:35:11 AM Message-ID: <200301291942.h0TJgHCn005918@narnia.int.dittman.net> > IIRC, the first CD-ROM drive that Radio Shack carried was a relabeled > Mitsumi trasport loader (a top loading drive that slid most of the drive > in and out of a holder to get access to it) It was hailed as a major > breakthrough in price reduction. I had one of those drives, but I didn't purchase it at Radio Shack. The drive was about 0.7X, I think, but it was a lot less expensive than any other drive that was available at the time. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 29 13:48:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: Removing duct tape residue. In-Reply-To: <11610566233.20030128221255@subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > OT: Another thing WD-40 is good at is killing bugs. It's not *the* fastest > insecticide I've used, but it is certainly fast. It works great if it's all > you have and the wasp is between you and the Raid. I've actually been in > that situation three or four times. I fear and HATE bugs. The last time I > used WD-40 on a wasp, I also emptied an upside-down can of air on it as it > was dying. The bug had spent the previous *hour* terrifying me. A Packard Bell works good for killing bugs. Cheaper than WD-40, reusable for quite a while. Just wack them with the keyboard, or drop the whole thing on them (which might even work for mice) From at258 at osfn.org Wed Jan 29 13:53:01 2003 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: Tamper proof tools In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Remarkable. We used to have a Crown Coach which used starnge fastenings on the bright metal siding. I suspect they were System Zero fasteners. The Crown was just about the only place I ever saw them. A pity they are gone now, thanks in part to General Electric's cupidity. They were known as the Rolls-Royce of Motor Coaches. On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Tony Duell wrote: > > Thank you for the answer, > > I have that set and unfortunately there is no bit that fits those weird > > screws. It looks like a hex nut driver would work on those star shaped > > screws but I can't find my set at the moment. > > I'm still looking for the proper tool though > > There are 2 sorts of 'raised round screwheads with notches round the > edge'. The common one is the 'inverse Torx' -- it's exactly the same as > Torx, but the screwhead is male and it fits into a ring spanner (box end > wrench?) or socket. > > The uncommon one is 'System Zero'. The notches are smaller, the head is > more rounded and has sloping sides so you can't (easily) grab it with > pliers. I've seen these used in UK computer equipment -- one of my EPROM > programmers is assembled with them (for what reason %deity only knows). > > In the UK, RS/Electromail sell the System Zero tools should you ever need > them (both as 'insert bits' for 1/4" hex drivers and as complete tools > with handles). > > -tony > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From bpope at wordstock.com Wed Jan 29 14:00:01 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: Removing duct tape residue. In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jan 29, 03 11:51:42 am Message-ID: <200301292000.PAA25256@wordstock.com> And thusly Fred Cisin spake: > > for quite a while. Just wack them with the keyboard, or drop the whole > thing on them (which might even work for mice) > Gross!!! Isn't that a little messy? Ever heard of a feline??! Cheers, Bryan From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 29 14:03:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: FA: DEC paper tapes, more Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030129151146.4ea75778@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> As promised I just put more stuff on E-bay; GenRad 1657 RLC meter, extender cable for same, 23 rolls of paper tapes for DEC PDP-8 (I think!), Anzac RF power divider, etc. if interested. Joe From dtwright at uiuc.edu Wed Jan 29 14:07:00 2003 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: Removing duct tape residue. In-Reply-To: <11610566233.20030128221255@subatomix.com> References: <005e01c2c73b$b257c690$6401a8c0@benchbox> <11610566233.20030128221255@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <20030129201031.GA8569604@uiuc.edu> I once did that to a cockroach. I think the WD40 did it some kind of weird neurological damage, because the thing started running around frantically after being sprayed...only the front half of its body no longer worked, so it was more pushing itself around with its back legs. It died completely after about 30 seconds. What's the moral of the story? WD-40 might be good for killing bugs, but don't eat it...you don't want to end up like the dysfunctional cockroach. Jeffrey Sharp said: > > OT: Another thing WD-40 is good at is killing bugs. It's not *the* fastest > insecticide I've used, but it is certainly fast. It works great if it's all > you have and the wasp is between you and the Raid. I've actually been in > that situation three or four times. I fear and HATE bugs. The last time I > used WD-40 on a wasp, I also emptied an upside-down can of air on it as it > was dying. The bug had spent the previous *hour* terrifying me. > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 29 14:14:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: Removing duct tape residue. In-Reply-To: <200301292000.PAA25256@wordstock.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Bryan Pope wrote: > And thusly Fred Cisin spake: > > for quite a while. Just wack them with the keyboard, or drop the whole > > thing on them (which might even work for mice) > Gross!!! Isn't that a little messy? Ever heard of a feline??! The Canon Cat is far too unique and interesting to use for crushing pests. From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Wed Jan 29 14:20:01 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: Free to a good home - will be skipped next week. References: <004301c2c6e8$4ba43440$0201000a@thornton.protasis.co.uk> Message-ID: <01be01c2c7d3$b0abef40$434a1942@starfury> Thanks just the same for replying. I'll keep looking... :) Cheers! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Myers" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:14 AM Subject: RE: Free to a good home - will be skipped next week. > It's already found a home very close to me. > > > Tim. From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Jan 29 14:23:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: New finds... information wanted Message-ID: I've managed to pick up a pair of "Atomic Instrument Company" Model 1091's from Purdue yesterday. They were manufactured in 1962, and the reason that I claim that they're on-topic is because they 'count'. Googling for "Atomic Instrument Company" brings back a grand total of three results... nothing that looks useful. Does anyone know anything about the company or where a schematic could be found? These are the first things i've brought home that use a set of vacuum tubes (thermionic valves for those on the other side of the pond) to count. Really neat. I've put up a pair of blurry pictures of its front (I don't have access to good lighting at the moment...) on my web site: http://purdueriots.com/mr-atomic/ Warning: the pictures have a large resolution, but are only about 80kB in size. Pat -- Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Jan 29 14:35:01 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: Model 100 DVI drive In-Reply-To: References: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E51273D5@MAIL10> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030129153012.02e45908@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) may have mentioned these words: >On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Cini, Richard wrote: > > I'm sure I'm over-generalizing and will start a sprightly discussion > > on disk formats :-) > >Any time. But I'll have to dig out my notes for the DVI format. Might be easier to dig over to http://www.club100.org/ -- Rick Hanson has been supporting the Model 100's since their birth... he'll soon start his 3rd decade of support for these small, wonderful machines... He's got a *ton* of info on his website, much of which is still available on his Model 100 BBS still in operation! He's one *fantastic* guy, so if anyone out there needs *anything* for a Model 100/102/200/wp2/NEC8201/Olivetti M10/blah/blah/blah/;-) See Rick first. Tell 'im "Merch" sent ya. ;^> === [1] HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger [1] If Memory Serves, the directory track is on track 20... but I'd need to do some looking up myself for anything more... ;-) -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jan 29 14:42:01 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: Apple II workstation Card Help In-Reply-To: <001501c2c35d$7e1d9d00$6501a8c0@thedm> References: <025201c2c34f$edf515d0$7209dd40@oemcomputer> <027901c2c354$89400aa0$7209dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030129121716.033eeec0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 10:03 PM 1/23/03 -0600, Bill Girnius wrote: >Anyone have a disk for this critter? I really have a need for some >tinkering! > >Thanks, > >Bill Doesn't it have a rom or something on the card, ie you just do something referencing the slot# like for a serial card etc.? From kth at srv.net Wed Jan 29 14:52:00 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: Mitsumi Transport-loading CD References: <200301291942.h0TJgHCn005918@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3E3844B1.1020501@srv.net> Eric Dittman wrote: >>IIRC, the first CD-ROM drive that Radio Shack carried was a relabeled >>Mitsumi trasport loader (a top loading drive that slid most of the drive >>in and out of a holder to get access to it) It was hailed as a major >>breakthrough in price reduction. >> >> > >I had one of those drives, but I didn't purchase it at Radio >Shack. The drive was about 0.7X, I think, but it was a lot >less expensive than any other drive that was available at the >time. > > I actually have one of these (with controller) sitting on my shelf right now. These things are NOT bootable, and you have to be careful about closing it properly (or it doesn't always recognize it's shut). It's intresting, but not one that I want to have to use much any more. Pulled it out of a machine that I was trying to re-install Windows98 on. It was just too painful trying to get a bootable system with the proper drivers, and then get the win98 installer running, while keeping the driver working, just to use a 1X cd-rom drive. Win98 just seemed to want to forget about the drivers after one of the numerous reboots, and then blaimed me when it couldn't find the drive anymore. Replaced with a regular IDE cdrom instead of fighting it for several more hours, and the install went Ok. I do have the DOS drivers for it though, and Linux seems to think it's Ok once you get it installed. ;-) I'll sell this leet, rare, vintage, historically important (and all those other e-bay wonderment words) device to you for the astonishing low e-bay price of $5000.00, or swap for something intresting or useful (like a set of tamper proof tools) ;=) From Technoid at 30below.com Wed Jan 29 15:12:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: I am not dead! In-Reply-To: <2313253848.20030128225743@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <000001c2c7db$af11f4b0$6401a8c0@benchbox> That is really nice to hear Jeff. I'm glad you are getting use out of it. Boy, it sure is a heavy monkey. Just getting it on the counter for weighing was an effort. I've seen companies do some weird things but the dual floppy drive in that pdp just takes the cake. I giggled over it like a schoolgirl when I first saw it. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Sharp Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 11:58 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: I am not dead! Glad to hear it. By the way, the uPDP-11/23+ you shipped me is now 100% functional. As you suspected, I had to replace its power supply. I've been slowly learning about RT-11 using that box. It's been a lot of fun. I really appreciate your generosity. -- Jeffrey Sharp From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Jan 29 15:30:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: Removing duct tape residue. References: <005e01c2c73b$b257c690$6401a8c0@benchbox> <11610566233.20030128221255@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <01c101c2c7de$4f115bc0$0100000a@milkyway> Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > OT: Another thing WD-40 is good at is killing bugs. It's not *the* > fastest insecticide I've used, but it is certainly fast. It works > great if it's all you have and the wasp is between you and the Raid. Hmm... I'll remember that trick. Especially seeing as there was a health scare w.r.t. fly spray not too long ago. According to Talksport, Boots and Superdrug were recalling fly spray due to cancer fears. Strange. I never saw any "URGENT PRODUCT RECALL" notices in any Boots or Superdrug stores. Bet some 13-year-old called the newsdesk 'cos he had nothing better to do than cause a bit of panic... > I've actually been in that situation three or four times. I fear and > HATE bugs. The last time I used WD-40 on a wasp, I also emptied an > upside-down can of air on it as it was dying. The bug had spent the > previous *hour* terrifying me. OMG... You emptied an aerosol "Can O' Air" on it? Considering those things usually contain Freon, that must have frozen it solid. Personally, I think liquid nitrogen would have worked better. *drip* *drip* *HISSSSS* . And you're not the only one who "fears and hates" wasps, either... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Wed Jan 29 15:53:01 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games References: Message-ID: <02b101c2c7e0$bd3516d0$434a1942@starfury> I don't remember LSL, but mama suggests trying to see if anyone remembers or has "Castle of Doctor Brain," or any of its sequels... I don't remember those either, but she assures me they're late '70s - early '80s, and worked on both Atari and TRS-80s... Any thoughts? Ed San Antonio, Tx, USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris" To: "Classic Computer" Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:18 AM Subject: RE: Sierra Adventure Games > >> ... Leisure Suit Larry 1, too. > > > >Hey! I still have LSL1 1.0 - 5.25" original disks, not a copy (fished it > >out of a pile of debris left by a departing college student a number of > >years ago) > > > >It's... um... a *classic*! > > Ah, but do you have "SoftPorn" the game that LSL-1 was a rip off of? I > played that on my Apple II eons ago (I just saw it on one of the game > archive links that passed thru this list recently in anyone wanted to DL > it) > > -chris > From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Wed Jan 29 16:21:01 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games References: <02b101c2c7e0$bd3516d0$434a1942@starfury> Message-ID: <01e701c2c7e5$610ee700$0100000a@milkyway> Ed Tillman wrote: > I don't remember LSL, but mama suggests trying to see if anyone > remembers or has "Castle of Doctor Brain," or any of its sequels... > I don't remember those either, but she assures me they're late '70s - > early '80s, and worked on both Atari and TRS-80s... I've got the PC VGA versions of "Turbo Science", "Castle of Doctor Brain" and "Island of Doctor Brain". Disks are in a box somewhere, same for the manuals. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Wed Jan 29 16:41:01 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games References: <02b101c2c7e0$bd3516d0$434a1942@starfury> <01e701c2c7e5$610ee700$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: <02f901c2c7e7$5be43350$434a1942@starfury> Can you tell me/us what they're like? Mama swears by them, but I don't recall ever having seen them. And, by "PC," does that mean current or DOS? Cheers! Ed San Antonio, Tx, USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Pemberton" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 04:25 PM Subject: Re: Sierra Adventure Games > I've got the PC VGA versions of "Turbo Science", "Castle of Doctor Brain" > and "Island of Doctor Brain". Disks are in a box somewhere, same for the > manuals. > > Later. > -- > Phil. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 29 17:44:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: To: TONY DUELL In-Reply-To: <001001c2c711$188165a0$de020202@reguser> from "DEAN" at Jan 28, 3 09:06:15 pm Message-ID: > What undocumented instructions in HP calculators... > Got an example Well, I think we can safely ignore the HP49G, since the 'manual' supplied with that machine is a total joke, so just about all the functions are uncodumented! OK, the classic example is the HP41 series. User programs are stored as a series of byes -- for example SIN is 59h, CLX is 77h, etc Some instructions -- those which take an operand, like STO, are 2 bytes long (OK, and some are even longer). STO 32 is stored as 91 20 -- the first byte means it's a STOre instruction, the second is the register number (20h = 32d). It turns out that not all possible second bytes are used in all instructions. For example, STO offically takes 0-63 (registers 0 to 99), 70-74 (the 4 stack registers and LASTX, 80-E3 (indirect 0 to indirect 99) and F0-F4 (indirect stack and LASTX). If you manage to get the other possible values for the second byte into program memory, then interesting things can happen. Values 64-6F access regists 100 to 111 _directly_ (officially you have to access them using indirect addressing). More interesting, values 75-7F access registers that you shouldn't be able to access -- the 56 flags, the alpha register as 4 separate 'normal' registers, the user program subroutine stack, the key assignment flags and the system memory partition register. The trick, of course, is to get those values into program mory in the first place. You either exploit bugs in the HP41 OS which allow you to edit memory you shouldn't, or you play tricks with deleting programs that are running and then return to them (the machine gets confused, and tries to execute other areas of memory -- specifically the 'buffer area' as a program -- if you've carefully set an alarm with the right 'text' then you can assign these new functions to a key, and then use that assigned key to enter them into program memory. Or you can lad them from barcode, disk, tape, cards, RS232 interface, etc. There were some 3rd party ROM modules that let you type these instructions directly -- my favourite is the ZenROM. In some ways this takes all the fun out of it, though. This was called 'synthetic programming' since the main way to enter such codes was the synthesise them from parts of other, typeable, instructions. I think every HP41-owning hacker has tried it at some point Older. simpler, HP calculators had all instructions stored as 1 'word' (often 8 bits, but 6 bits on the HP65). Not all possibilities were used -- the HP67 has, IIRC, 250 documented instructions. The other 6 do something, but I can't remember what. Similarly on machines like the HP34C. You can also play games with non-normallised numbers (numbers where either then most significant mantissa digit is 0, even though the number is not 0, or more interestingly, numbers with illegal BCD digits). Again, HP didn't ever document this (other than a cryptic comment in the HP41 HPIL Development ROM manual that said some functions would move data around without normalisation). To get these illegal bit patterns into memory on the older machines you either used a 'phase 1 interrupt switch' (which disconnected the phi_1 clock line from the memory chips, or a 'black box' (a variable resistor in series with the battery pack, you reduced the voltage until the machine went crazy). Another example of undocumented functions, this time perfectly normal ones is the extended I/O ROM for the HP75. It's got a whole lot of 'extra' non-I/O related functions in it that don't appear in the manual. There must be many more examples (an obvious one is programming the HP41 in NUT machine code, which neads a special memory box) but that will do to start with. > Yours Truly > Dean Lampman Hang on... That name sounds familiar. Should I associate you with the HP65 or something? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 29 17:46:21 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: Model 100 DVI drive In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E51273D5@MAIL10> from "Cini, Richard" at Jan 29, 3 08:56:43 am Message-ID: > floppy drives. I guess by that point in time, many manufacturers (except > Apple and Commodore) standardized on an IBM-style drives rather than > proprietary setups. Err, it's more that IBM chose to use industry-standard drives in the PC family. The SA400 interface (which is what this is based on) long predates the PC... -tony From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jan 29 18:15:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: ADMIN: Demime is now active In-Reply-To: <20030129185923.10572.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030129185923.10572.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <78745882.20030129181857@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, Jules Richardson wrote: > Can you set something up to automatically strip off my yahoo .sig too? ;-) The advertising sig? Oh, I forgot. Demime actually does have a large file with regular expressions for recognizing and deleting the advertisement junk that automatically gets inserted into some people's outgoing email. Removal of ads is currently enabled, so most of that stuff should go bye-bye. Some new ads may slip past it. If you meant your regular sig, then sure. Just start using a JPEG image for your sig. :-) -- Jeffrey Sharp From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jan 29 18:18:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: I am not dead! In-Reply-To: <000001c2c7db$af11f4b0$6401a8c0@benchbox> References: <000001c2c7db$af11f4b0$6401a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: <94939961.20030129182211@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > Just getting [the PDP] on the counter for weighing was an effort. Well, it *is* a PDP. You can't fit too many types of them on counters in the first place... :-) -- Jeffrey Sharp From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 29 18:26:00 2003 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: ibm sys/36 5360 basic needed Message-ID: (posting to list because I'm not sure my first try went through) Colin, I'd be very interested in the 5360.. Where is it? I have a full set of S/36 software on 5.25" disks... Will J From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jan 29 18:27:34 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: The H&H AoE book Message-ID: <1421398250.20030129182949@subatomix.com> Due to the recommendation of several on the list, I went to the local Barnes and Noble and picked up Horowitz & Hill's _The Art of Electronics_. You guys weren't fibbing: this thing's great! I've only read about 10 pages so far, but it already kicks the complete @#$% out of the book I previously had. I give many thanks to those who recommended this book. The other book I had was _Understanding Electronics_. I don't remember the author's name but the publisher was TAB Books. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone except maybe for use as a firestarter. That book sucks giant donkey balls (IMHO of course). -- Jeffrey Sharp From kelly at catcorner.org Wed Jan 29 18:44:01 2003 From: kelly at catcorner.org (Kelly Leavitt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: Looking for MBasic for Tandy 68000 Xenix Message-ID: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B817@308server.308dole.com> Subject says it all. dd image, tar file, 8" or 5.25" floppy. Anyone have a copy laying around? Thanks, Kelly From acme at ao.net Wed Jan 29 18:54:00 2003 From: acme at ao.net (acme@ao.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: ADMIN: Demime is now active Message-ID: <200301300057.TAA06672@eola.ao.net> > By popular demand, Jay and I have set up demime on the ClassicCmp server, > and all posts are being filtered through it. From here on out, all posts you > get from CC will be in plain text, with no attachments or HTML. If you send > file attachments, they will be removed from your post. If you post anything > other than plain text messages, plain text will be extracted or rendered as > appropriate. Even HTML-only or RTF-only mail is rendered into plain text. > Demime tries very hard to convert your post into plain text, but if it > simply cannot, it will bounce your post. *Sigh* Thank you! Glen 0/0 From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Wed Jan 29 19:01:00 2003 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: GRiDCase 3: Help! Message-ID: <20030130010437.5029A1ECD6@www.fastmail.fm> I not too recenly picked up a GRiDCase 3 with 2 "GRiD Disc System 2204" external hard drives. Just yesterday they both started acting up on me. It would initially spin up when you turned it on, but after a few seconds they would just kick off. A few seconds later I get a "1702" message on my screen. I'm lead to believe that there could be a configuration problem somewhere, but I'm not 100% sure on this. My questions are: 1. What is going on here? 2. How do I fix this? -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jan 29 19:18:00 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: QUOTE or TICKER In-Reply-To: <001601c2c1d1$3562fac0$0200000a@ibm0187702152> References: <20030121205625.24511.qmail@web12304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030129165950.033e18c0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 11:46 PM 1/21/03 -0500, Jim Keohane wrote: > Looking for handheld quote device, ticker display or any peripheral > for IBM PC, Apple ][, etc. to pick up ticker broadcast via FM Broadcast > or geosynchronous satellite broadcast. Does not necessarilly have to be > functioning. User manual would be great. I have a Lotus box, but no software or paperwork. Lotus FM Receiver Lotus Information Network Corp. Burlingame, CA Model No. 109-13011XX FCC ID No. EVL5TTRABSTROPS Serial No. M1300678 Beeps and lights blink when plugged in, so I suspect with the proper stuff it still works, or would if the signal were still broadcast. From marvin at rain.org Wed Jan 29 19:28:01 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: Lotus Signal Receiver, was Re: QUOTE or TICKER References: <20030121205625.24511.qmail@web12304.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20030129165950.033e18c0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <3E388084.17E3E0D1@rain.org> Mike, I have what I *think* is the same thing, and it is copyright 1986; he was looking for pre 1984 or so. If you need copies of the software, *assuming* the software I have is good, it won't be a problem. I can bring it to TRW late this month. Anyone know what frequency this works on, and if the supporting transmitter is still on the air? It indicated this was a subscription service, and I would be most interested to know how they enforced that. Mike Ford wrote: > > At 11:46 PM 1/21/03 -0500, Jim Keohane wrote: > > Looking for handheld quote device, ticker display or any peripheral > > for IBM PC, Apple ][, etc. to pick up ticker broadcast via FM Broadcast > > or geosynchronous satellite broadcast. Does not necessarilly have to be > > functioning. User manual would be great. > > I have a Lotus box, but no software or paperwork. > > Lotus FM Receiver > > Lotus Information Network Corp. > Burlingame, CA > Model No. 109-13011XX > FCC ID No. EVL5TTRABSTROPS > Serial No. M1300678 > > Beeps and lights blink when plugged in, so I suspect with the proper stuff > it still works, or would if the signal were still broadcast. From graymc at carolina.rr.com Wed Jan 29 19:39:00 2003 From: graymc at carolina.rr.com (Gray McDonald) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: Tamper proof tools In-Reply-To: <003a01c2c68c$daf97da0$0264640a@auradon.com> Message-ID: <000601c2c800$e5cfef00$6502a8c0@thomasthetank> Go down to sears and get a screw removal kit. You drill out part of the head and then use a reverse threaded bit to turn the screw. There's also a newer style that doesn't require the drill out. You can then replace them with "normal" screws later on. -----Original Message----- From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Sue & Francois Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 12:20 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Tamper proof tools Thank you for the answer, I have that set and unfortunately there is no bit that fits those weird screws. It looks like a hex nut driver would work on those star shaped screws but I can't find my set at the moment. I'm still looking for the proper tool though Francois Minnesota ----- Original Message ----- From: "Truthan,Larry" To: Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 12:52 PM Subject: Tamper proof tools > http://www.mcmelectronics.com/Home/level_5.jhtml?PRODID=9629&SKUID=8874 > > Above is a set of tamper proof bits At MCM electronics. Dayton OH USA > web-store. > > SECURITY SD2519 BIT SET 30 PC W/ SCREWDRIVER > > 30 Piece Security Screwdriver Insert Bit Kit > This is a complete set of security bits for all of those difficult service > applications, such as IBM PS/2 monitors, cable boxes, telephone equipment > and many others. > Kit contains: 5/64", 3/32", 7/64", 1/8", 9/64", 5/32" security hex keys; T8, > T10, T15, T20, T25, T27, T30, T35, T40 security torx bits; #6, #8, #10 torx > set bits; #4, #6, #8, #10 spanners; #1, #2, #3, #4 tri-wings, bit holder, > 1/4" socket adaptor, 7-1/2" magnetic handle and plastic carrying case. > > > Larry Truthan > Digest subscriber > Dublin OH USA From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jan 29 19:43:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: ARM Evaluation Kit discs Message-ID: <10301292141.ZM7852@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> The saga of the ARM Evaluation Kit discs continues... I still don't have a complete uncorrupted Disc 1, which is the disc containing the editors and assembler for the ARM. Rob, who hoped to make a copy for me has found that his Disc 1 also has a corrupt track in exactly the same place as mine and Kevan's. Perhaps there was a batch of corrput discs from Acorn's disc duplicators. Can I ask anyone who thinks they have Disc 1 for the ARM Evaluation Kit to *please* make an effort to dig it out, and either copy it for me, or lend it? I now know of at least four or five people who would be very grateful. I'll pay for postage etc, of course, by recorded delivery if necessary. I've worked out at least one way to make disc images that should be accessible to a BBC Micro, so if I can get Disc 1 sorted out, I can not only make copies for those who I know want them, but make the images available on a website. Thanks to those who've already made helpful suggestions about disc images. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From doug_jackson at citadel.com.au Wed Jan 29 19:54:00 2003 From: doug_jackson at citadel.com.au (Doug Jackson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: ADMIN: Demime is now active Message-ID: testing Doug Jackson Director, Managed Security Services Citadel Securix +61 (0)2 6290 9011 (Ph) +61 (0)2 6262 6152 (Fax) +61 (0)414 986 878 (Mobile) Web: Offices in Melbourne, Sydney, Canberra, Hong Kong, Boston CAUTION - The information in this message may be of a privileged or confidential nature intended only for the use of the addressee or someone authorised to receive the addressee's e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify postmaster@citadel.com.au. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Citadel Securix. Feel free to visit the Citadel Securix website! Click below. http://www.citadel.com.au From dholland at woh.rr.com Wed Jan 29 20:13:01 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games In-Reply-To: <3E357639.80709@internet1.net> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030126085038.00b0c040@mail.attbi.com> <3E3571CE.8060509@Vishay.com> <3E357639.80709@internet1.net> Message-ID: <1043893655.3842.0.camel@crusader> FWIW, I'm busily downloading the whole shmere from here... http://www.tierraentertainment.com/ I suspect the old site is just that... OLD.. David On Mon, 2003-01-27 at 13:11, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > I tried downloading it but got errors when clicking on cetain links on > the web site, including the download page. > > Chad Fernandez > Mcihigan, USA From ssj152 at charter.net Wed Jan 29 20:24:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: ADMIN: Demime is now active References: <1311756925.20030128223246@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <059d01c2c807$0d70d5a0$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Sharp" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:32 PM Subject: ADMIN: Demime is now active > By popular demand, Jay and I have set up demime on the ClassicCmp server, > and all posts are being filtered through it. From here on out, all posts you This sounds GREAT! I can switch my email settings back to HTML and the list will take care of itself! I really disliked HTML in the digest, enough that I changed to the "normal" delivery. This is also something of a test as I've re-enabled HTML format for my email as stated above. Thanks, Stuart Johnson From loedman1 at juno.com Wed Jan 29 20:26:00 2003 From: loedman1 at juno.com (loedman1@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: ADMIN: Demime is now active Message-ID: <20030129.182614.-112381.5.loedman1@juno.com> >Jeffrey Sharp >By popular demand, Jay and I have set up demime on the ClassicCmp server, >and all posts are being filtered through it. From here on out, all posts you >get from CC will be in plain text, with no attachments or HTML. If you send Thank You, you have no idea how much I appreciate this !!!!!!! Rich Stephenson Lake Berryessa, California From loedman1 at juno.com Wed Jan 29 20:27:31 2003 From: loedman1 at juno.com (loedman1@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:15 2005 Subject: Was Removing duct tape residue, now guntalk Message-ID: <20030129.182614.-112381.4.loedman1@juno.com> > I always find it interesting that computer types would also be gun >nuts. I've got a 1942 Soviet Musen Nagent (Spelling?) 7.62x54R, a 1970s >era Savage 30-06, and a .380 handgun. Cabela's has a good stock of >various odd ammunition sizes, including 7.62x54R. I believe that it has to do with "protecting" our precious computers, or maybe the family ? BTW, I prefer muzzle loaders (45 and 58 cal) and saddle guns Rich Stephenson Lake Berryessa, California From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Wed Jan 29 20:37:00 2003 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: TI 99/4A Power Supply In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030129141527.04ad67b0@enigma> References: <3E37CF74.28846.B256E6D@localhost> <5.2.0.9.2.20030127225644.02281f28@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030129213946.0235db40@pop-server> At 02:23 PM 1/29/2003 -0500, you wrote: >On 27 Jan 2003, Gene Ehrich wrote: > > I have a number of TI power supplies > >The "wall warts" you have are for various older Texas >Instruments calculators from the 1970s and 1980s, >LED displays and all. That information is great. Where did you get it? Can I find it on a web site somewhere? From dmabry at mich.com Wed Jan 29 20:45:00 2003 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: GRiDCase 3: Help! References: <20030130010437.5029A1ECD6@www.fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <3E38924C.8040109@mich.com> It's been a while, but ISTR that 1702 is an error code that means the hard drive controller has returned to the bios that something is wrong with the drive. It wasn't specific as to the error, just that something in the hard drive subsystem wasn't functioning. Most of the time it meant that the hard drive itself had failed in my experience. David Vohs wrote: > I not too recenly picked up a GRiDCase 3 with 2 "GRiD Disc System 2204" > external hard drives. Just yesterday they both started acting up on me. > It would initially spin up when you turned it on, but after a few seconds > they would just kick off. A few seconds later I get a "1702" message on > my screen. > > I'm lead to believe that there could be a configuration problem > somewhere, but I'm not 100% sure on this. > > My questions are: > > 1. What is going on here? > 2. How do I fix this? -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From Technoid at 30below.com Wed Jan 29 20:57:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: Was Removing duct tape residue, now guntalk In-Reply-To: <20030129.182614.-112381.4.loedman1@juno.com> Message-ID: <000101c2c80b$ea982470$6401a8c0@benchbox> My Mauser was restocked at some point with a nice wooden hunting stock with a silver 'pommel'. It seems like everyone I know has one of these old S. American rifles.... Most are made in Lowe Germany. Even my brother has one. Once when he and I were out at the 'informal range' here in Florida, he drove the spindle out of a connor 3.5" hdd at about 50 feet with a .357 wheelgun fireing .38 rounds. I was seriously impressed. I keep them mainly for target shooting, but I once had a break-in intruder who was very sorry he'd picked my house to rob. I didn't shoot him. Didn't have to. I came into the living room with my 30-30, leveled it at his chest and said 'give me your wallet'. He did and then I let him go. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of loedman1@juno.com Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 9:02 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Was Removing duct tape residue, now guntalk > I always find it interesting that computer types would also be gun >nuts. I've got a 1942 Soviet Musen Nagent (Spelling?) 7.62x54R, a 1970s >era Savage 30-06, and a .380 handgun. Cabela's has a good stock of >various odd ammunition sizes, including 7.62x54R. I believe that it has to do with "protecting" our precious computers, or maybe the family ? BTW, I prefer muzzle loaders (45 and 58 cal) and saddle guns Rich Stephenson Lake Berryessa, California From univac2 at earthlink.net Wed Jan 29 21:03:00 2003 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: The H&H AoE book In-Reply-To: <1421398250.20030129182949@subatomix.com> Message-ID: on 1/29/03 6:29 PM, Jeffrey Sharp at jss@subatomix.com wrote: > Due to the recommendation of several on the list, I went to the local Barnes > and Noble and picked up Horowitz & Hill's _The Art of Electronics_. You guys > weren't fibbing: this thing's great! I've only read about 10 pages so far, > but it already kicks the complete @#$% out of the book I previously had. I > give many thanks to those who recommended this book. > > The other book I had was _Understanding Electronics_. I don't remember the > author's name but the publisher was TAB Books. I wouldn't recommend it to > anyone except maybe for use as a firestarter. That book sucks giant donkey > balls (IMHO of course). _Understanding Electronics_, by R.H. Warring, TAB book #1553. Originally published in 1978, second edition copyright 1984. I have it as a reference here at my desk. Horowitz & Hill's book is in my closet piled under a bunch of cheap DOS software. Maybe I should dig it out. -- Owen Robertson From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Jan 29 21:07:00 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games In-Reply-To: <02b101c2c7e0$bd3516d0$434a1942@starfury> Message-ID: <3E3843D1.3483.CEC08B5@localhost> How can anyone who is not a DEC-freak fail to remember "Leasure-Suit Larry". For obvious self- derogatory reasons this was one of my favorite games. I have V 1 for MSDOS and 1-3 for Atari ST. I don't especially like adventure games but it was indeed "special" if only for it's sense of self-depreciating humor. That's something that seems to be lost for this generation of hackers(?) who seem to think substituting "z" for "s" is some sort of statement. I have a progam somewhere for 8 bit Ataris that strung together a bunch of stills of a woman performing felatio, which I found more humorous than erotic. Also some 8- bit Demos by Michel Jarre and another even bigger German demo programmer whose name escapes me . Some of their sound-light programs are even now astounding. This was on-the-edge shit and for the most part seems to be dying (what do you do when not coding boring stuff) in favor of repeating some hi-paying sort of state propaganda shit based on GI-Joe. "Up the Empire". Blecch ! Oh well us old farts are gonna die soon and the Bill Gate's will be free to have their way. Memories are short. Lawrence On 29 Jan 2003, , Ed Tillman wrote: > I don't remember LSL, but mama suggests trying to see if > anyone remembers or has "Castle of Doctor Brain," or any of > its sequels... I don't remember those either, but she > assures me they're late '70s - early '80s, and worked on > both Atari and TRS-80s... > > Any thoughts? > > Ed > San Antonio, Tx, USA > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "chris" > To: "Classic Computer" > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:18 AM > Subject: RE: Sierra Adventure Games > > > > >> ... Leisure Suit Larry 1, too. > > > > > >Hey! I still have LSL1 1.0 - 5.25" original disks, not a > > >copy (fished it out of a pile of debris left by a > > >departing college student a number of years ago) > > > > > >It's... um... a *classic*! > > > > Ah, but do you have "SoftPorn" the game that LSL-1 was a > > rip off of? I played that on my Apple II eons ago (I just > > saw it on one of the game archive links that passed thru > > this list recently in anyone wanted to DL it) > > > > -chris > > lgwalker@ mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Jan 29 21:08:29 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: GRiDCase 3: Help! In-Reply-To: <20030130010437.5029A1ECD6@www.fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <3E3843D1.2735.CEC086F@localhost> I have a couple of Grid 1520s. They have a Connor HD. Possibly the worst choice Grid, a high end machine, could have picked. Both of them occasionally seize up. And from my experience on the Yahoo Grid list, a quite common problem. Fortunately the Connor like the Grid is a very robust machine and usually a couple of smart raps on the HD restores them to functionality( I use the rubber-coated handle of a screwdriver). You might consult some of the people on the various Grid lists. Use Google. Lawrence On 29 Jan 2003, , David Vohs wrote: > I not too recenly picked up a GRiDCase 3 with 2 "GRiD Disc > System 2204" external hard drives. Just yesterday they both > started acting up on me. It would initially spin up when you > turned it on, but after a few seconds they would just kick > off. A few seconds later I get a "1702" message on my > screen. > > I'm lead to believe that there could be a configuration > problem somewhere, but I'm not 100% sure on this. > > My questions are: > > 1. What is going on here? > 2. How do I fix this? > -- > David Vohs > netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net > > -- > http://fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your > own lgwalker@ mts.net From cb at mythtech.net Wed Jan 29 22:04:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games Message-ID: >I have a progam somewhere for 8 bit Ataris that strung >together a bunch of stills of a woman performing felatio, >which I found more humorous than erotic. Also some 8- >bit Demos by Michel Jarre and another even bigger >German demo programmer whose name escapes me . >Some of their sound-light programs are even now >astounding. I had something for the Apple II that was similar. Animated video like thing of two girls playing "hide the salami" with... well... a salami. I have NO idea what was called, or where the disk went, but I remember it because it was to me just incredible that a computer could turn something like that out. >This was on-the-edge shit and for the most >part seems to be dying (what do you do when not coding >boring stuff) in favor of repeating some hi-paying sort of >state propaganda shit based on GI-Joe. But I seem to recall the game "GI-Joe" was pretty cool. Although honestly I don't remember too much of it, and I know that I was way more easily amused back then than I am now (as testiment to watching Cartoon Network's "Boomerang" channel and wondering why on earth I loved some of those cartoons so much as a kid) -chris From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jan 29 22:20:00 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: Free stuff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <814880927.20030129221432@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, Witchy wrote: >> [Mitsumi CD ROM drives] > Plus, you can stand a mug of coffee on them :) Of course, if you're foolish enough to sit a liquid there while the machine is running (or even while it is off), you deserve the eventual result! :-) -- Jeffrey Sharp From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 29 22:37:59 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: Removing Duct Tape Residue In-Reply-To: <000501c2c688$95166540$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, Erik S. Klein wrote: > Goo Gone would probably be effective. Just make sure that it doesn't > discolor the plastic before you slather it all over the residue. Better yet, apply some to a cloth first, then apply the cloth to the target goo. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Jan 29 22:40:43 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: Free stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: 29 January 2003 00:48 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Free stuff > > > [Mitsumi CD ROM drives] > > > > Those were very common about 5 years ago... I guess there are plenty > > > still around. > > > > 5 years ago? I think not :) In 1998 severalteen speed IDE CDs > were the norm, > > 5 years ago (well, OK, middle of 1997) was when I finished my last job, > in major UK University. I am _sure_ of this because there's an HPCC > conference every 5 years... > > Many of the 'public access' machines in the university terminal rooms had > this sort of CD-ROM drive. They certainly weren't new, or the 'latest > thing', but they were still in use. Aye, I can see them still in places like that where they're not used too much, and those beasts aren't going to physically break easily. Plus, you can stand a mug of coffee on them :) -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Jan 29 22:42:20 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: Decserver 700-16 firmware In-Reply-To: <200301280328.h0S3SVFK022873@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Eric Dittman > Sent: 28 January 2003 03:29 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Decserver 700-16 firmware > > > > Dammit, I was thinking that as I was typing it.....12 weeks > unemployment is > > really rotting my brain :( The DNAS 2.2 stuff still stands though. > > I'd be interested in an ISO of the CD. OK, I'll brave the current coldness of the room and see if I can dig it out! We've got a north wind blowing at the mo and it's FREEZING up here. -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Jan 29 22:43:53 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: DEC RZ28 2gb drive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi list, In my old days as a DEC VAR I'd just call support on this one, but this is my own kit so I don't have that choice. I recently found an old RZ28 (Seagate drive I think, have to check) I'd forgotten I had so I stuck it in my 3100-90 for testing. Stuff like $analyze/disk/repair work fine (vms 7.3 courtesy of my last workplace :) but part way through $analyze/media/exercise=full the drive goes offline so it obviously has a Bad Area on it. Anyone know if a low level reformat is possible?? cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Jan 29 22:45:28 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: Digital DNAS CD request & CD list In-Reply-To: <20030127030441.DWUQ13282.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@there> Message-ID: Hi folks, Been having a good look round for my DNAS 2.2 CD and I'm pretty sure it's currently out on loan with an ex-colleague so I'm checking and will let you all know when it turns up. I found its box but what use is that :) While I was rooting through my boxes of stuff I found a lot of CDs and tapes I'd forgotten about that might be useful in the future so here's a quick list: (from memory) CDs: InfoserverVXT Infoserver 1000 Infoserver Disk & Tape access VXT Host software (VAX) OpenVMS AXP V1.0 OpenVMS AXP V1.5 OpenVMS AXP V6.1 OSF/1 T1.0 is in there somewhere; need to dig that one out too. OSF/1 V1.3 Alpha firmware updates from about v2.x up to 5.x (on floppy too) Ultrix 4.2 VAX and RISC Ultrix Layered Products, 1994? OpenVMS Freeware from 1.0 to 5.0 OpenVMS Internet Product Suite 1.1 All versions of OpenVMS from 5.5 to 7.3, VAX and Alpha Digital UNIX V3.2 Digital UNIX Layered Products Tru64 V4.0D and 4.0G Tru64 Layered Products VMS Layered Product sets from around Sep 1992 up to 1999/2000, also current LPs, VAX and Alpha (many boxes!) Tapes (TK50): VMS 5.0 VMS 5.2 VMS 5.3 VMS 5.3-1 VMS 5.4 VMS 5.4-2 + MUP VMS 5.4-3 VMS 5.5-2H4 + MUP plus there's some I remember picking up that must be in another box I haven't found yet, like VMS 5.5, VMS 5.0-1, VMS 5.0-2, Dibol 4.2, DECwindows etc. MVII Diagnostics Bootable PDP11/73 tape, probably RT/11 V5.4 & CTS300 V8.2 Yes, I'm a hoarder :o) -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From mhstein at canada.com Wed Jan 29 22:47:06 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: Another apology Message-ID: <01C2C76C.9ED2B680@mse-d03> To everyone who's waiting to hear from me about stuff I've offered, another apology! Been awfully busy with work & health matters and haven't had time to look at things in detail, but you'll all hear from me Real Soon Now... mike in Toronto From mhstein at canada.com Wed Jan 29 22:48:45 2003 From: mhstein at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: I am not dead! Message-ID: <01C2C779.FE1ED940@mse-d03> Same here! If anyone finds pieces of mine, let me know; being Canadian, they'll be wearing little toques with red maple leaves on them... mike in Toronto ---------------Original message------------------ From: "Jeffrey S. Worley" Subject: I am not dead! Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:27:03 -0500 There are very few things of which I certain these days, but one thing I am sure of is that I am not dead. I'm sorry for making such a mess of the list and of my dealings with Curt. He deserved better. I just lost my mind. Plain and simple. I have some of it back now and am hunting for more. If any of you find some, please let me know so I can put it back. Regards, Jeff From vance at neurotica.com Wed Jan 29 22:50:18 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: Tamper proof tools In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030129090207.11e7da6e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Joe wrote: > In Canada they call those Robertson bits. They use them a lot more > than we do in the US. The last time I was up there they were using them > for dry wall screws, installing electrical boxs in houses, etc. I use them quite a lot. They're a lot less easy to strip than philips. Peace... Sridhar From drido at optushome.com.au Wed Jan 29 22:52:02 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: Ebay: Mark 1 Computer Cards In-Reply-To: <20030127180117.42482.74850.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030130155024.010f206c@mail.optushome.com.au> >Message: 45 >Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:03:44 -0800 >From: Marvin Johnston >To: ClassicCmp >Subject: Ebay: Mark 1 Computer Cards >Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >The pictures didn't load for me right now, but if these truely are the >Mark 1 cards, it sounds like a neat collection! > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2303799002&category=1247 Most of the cards pictures are small cards with 1 or more transistors on them. Theres a couple of other parts that I can't identify from the pictures, and and 8 bit ISA card that obviously doesn't belong. Not Mark 1 parts, at least not Manchester Mark 1 parts. Could be from some other machine called Mark 1 that I don't know of. From lwolfrum at lucent.com Wed Jan 29 22:53:34 2003 From: lwolfrum at lucent.com (Wolfrum, Larry M (Larry)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: Laserjet IIIp in Ohio Message-ID: Paul, I am looking for a letter size paper tray for my LaserJet IIIP. Are any of these paper trays still available? Larry Wolfrum Naperville, Illinois ----- Original Message ----- Someone was asking about paper trays for a LaserJet IIIp in Ohio. I have a half-dozen broken LaserJet IIp's and one IIIp for parts, including the paper trays. I live just north of Toledo. Contact me if you still need it. -- Paul R. Santa-Maria Monroe, Michigan USA From paularts at home.nl Wed Jan 29 22:55:10 2003 From: paularts at home.nl (Paul Arts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: Spare Chips Message-ID: <002201cdfe66$0ba2a460$6401a8c0@ARTS> I want to work my Art EPP-2 programmer but i lost the software google doesn't have what i'm looking for any of you pherhaps (its for the 27 and 28 series) Paul From fm.arnold at inn-salzach.de Wed Jan 29 22:56:44 2003 From: fm.arnold at inn-salzach.de (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: PDP-8: (and others) anyone tried NVRAM simulation of hard drives? Message-ID: >Message: 10 >From: "Will Jennings" >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: PDP-8: anyone tried NVRAM simulation of hard drives? >Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:44:46 -0700 >Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > >Omnibus or Posibus? Why not Negibus? Neither Omnibus nor Posibus would help >me on my 8/i, since mine is Negibus... An SSD would be a Very Cool Thing to >have though... Especially since it really wouldn't have to be very large in >terms of capacity.. > >Will J > > Hi, one way of doing this would be the use of a TU-58 tape drive. This device is internalley using a disc-like structure, and it will connect to any serial port. There should be a PDP8 OS8 driver for this. And with the RS-232 interface, this could be used for any other computer as well. The real TU58 is sweet, but terribly slow. On top of that, the tapes are expensive. But there are cool alternatives: You will find a semiconductor-emulated TU58 kit on: http://www.SpareTimeGizmos.com/Hardware/TU58_Emulator.htm Also there is a PC-Emulation on: http://www.not-compatible.org/PDP-11/programs/tu58sim.html I havn't yet used any of these, (have a real TU58), so see for yourself how useful this is in your system. Please post the results! Frank Arnold From vaxzilla at jarai.org Wed Jan 29 22:59:00 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: DEC RZ28 2gb drive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Witchy wrote: > In my old days as a DEC VAR I'd just call support on this one, but > this is my own kit so I don't have that choice. I recently found an > old RZ28 (Seagate drive I think, have to check) I'd forgotten I had so > I stuck it in my 3100-90 for testing. Stuff like $analyze/disk/repair > work fine (vms 7.3 courtesy of my last workplace :) but part way > through $analyze/media/exercise=full the drive goes offline so it > obviously has a Bad Area on it. Anyone know if a low level reformat is > possible?? On the VAXstation 3100s and early MicroVAX 3100s, I believe "TEST 75" at the console prompt ">>>" drops you into a low level formatter. There's also a floppy formatter somewhere nearby--I think it was TEST 74 or TEST 76. I'm not sure if these work in later model MicroVAX 3100s like yours, so your mileage may vary. Also, it takes a /long/ time to run on large disks; one of my 4GB SCSI drives took a number of hours. -brian. From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jan 29 23:12:01 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: Ebay: Mark 1 Computer Cards In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20030130155024.010f206c@mail.optushome.com.au> References: <3.0.3.32.20030130155024.010f206c@mail.optushome.com.au> Message-ID: <2518535712.20030129231527@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, Dr. Ido wrote: > Not Mark 1 parts, at least not Manchester Mark 1 parts. Could be from some > other machine called Mark 1 that I don't know of. Not the Harvard Mark 1 either. IIRC it was electromechanical, not electronic. Correct me if I'm wrong. -- Jeffrey Sharp From Technoid at 30below.com Wed Jan 29 23:16:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: Ebay: Mark 1 Computer Cards In-Reply-To: <2518535712.20030129231527@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <000e01c2c81f$4c110380$6401a8c0@benchbox> To the best of my recollection, the Mark I was a relay-based machine. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Sharp Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 12:15 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Ebay: Mark 1 Computer Cards On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, Dr. Ido wrote: > Not Mark 1 parts, at least not Manchester Mark 1 parts. Could be from some > other machine called Mark 1 that I don't know of. Not the Harvard Mark 1 either. IIRC it was electromechanical, not electronic. Correct me if I'm wrong. -- Jeffrey Sharp From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 29 23:18:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: The H&H AoE book In-Reply-To: <1421398250.20030129182949@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030130001051.479fe856@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:29 PM 1/29/03 -0600, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: >Due to the recommendation of several on the list, I went to the local Barnes >and Noble and picked up Horowitz & Hill's _The Art of Electronics_. You guys >weren't fibbing: this thing's great! I've only read about 10 pages so far, >but it already kicks the complete @#$% out of the book I previously had. I >give many thanks to those who recommended this book. > >The other book I had was _Understanding Electronics_. I don't remember the >author's name but the publisher was TAB Books. I wouldn't recommend it to >anyone except maybe for use as a firestarter. That book sucks giant donkey >balls (IMHO of course). That's generally true of all the TAB boks. I've found few that were worth even taking home and I certainly wouldn't PAY for them. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 29 23:19:36 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: Was Removing duct tape residue, now guntalk In-Reply-To: <20030129.182614.-112381.4.loedman1@juno.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030130001640.4797dca4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:01 PM 1/29/03 -0800, you wrote: >> I always find it interesting that computer types would also be gun >>nuts. I've got a 1942 Soviet Musen Nagent (Spelling?) 7.62x54R, a 1970s >>era Savage 30-06, and a .380 handgun. Cabela's has a good stock of >>various odd ammunition sizes, including 7.62x54R. > >I believe that it has to do with "protecting" our precious computers, or >maybe the family ? >BTW, I prefer muzzle loaders (45 and 58 cal) I tried those but they're too slow and messy. I prefer my 45-70 Sharps. There's nothing like a 400+ grain bullet to get someone's attention! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 29 23:21:11 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: GRiDCase 3: Help! In-Reply-To: <20030130010437.5029A1ECD6@www.fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030130002544.4797bb12@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I don't remember which model Grids I have but I've had them loose their settings due to sitting too long and then they they couldn't access their hard drives. All of them had a little door on the left side above the keyboard with EPROM sockets in them. I finally found one that had a EPROM in the socket. With that I could boot any of them to a ***virtual*** C: drive and then update the settings and then the computer would boot on the real C: drive even with the EPROM removed. I've been meaning to make some copies of that EPROM but I don't have a working EPROM burned that will burn that EPROM (27c010 IIRC). FWIW none of my Grids have a floppy drive. The floppy drive is external and I've never been able to find one. Joe At 07:04 PM 1/29/03 -0600, you wrote: >I not too recenly picked up a GRiDCase 3 with 2 "GRiD Disc System 2204" >external hard drives. Just yesterday they both started acting up on me. >It would initially spin up when you turned it on, but after a few seconds >they would just kick off. A few seconds later I get a "1702" message on >my screen. > >I'm lead to believe that there could be a configuration problem >somewhere, but I'm not 100% sure on this. > >My questions are: > >1. What is going on here? >2. How do I fix this? >-- > David Vohs > netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net > >-- >http://fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jan 29 23:22:44 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: Looking for MBasic for Tandy 68000 Xenix In-Reply-To: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B817@308server.308dole.com > Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030130001318.479f8744@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> See if you can wake up Mike Haas (dogas@bellsouth.net) and ask him. I gave him a HUGE pile of T6000 stuff about a year ago. I don't know if MBASIC was in there but it was a very complete collection. Joe At 07:33 PM 1/29/03 -0500, you wrote: >Subject says it all. dd image, tar file, 8" or 5.25" floppy. Anyone have a >copy laying around? > >Thanks, >Kelly From dan at ekoan.com Wed Jan 29 23:38:01 2003 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: GRiDCase 3: Help! In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030130002544.4797bb12@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <20030130010437.5029A1ECD6@www.fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030130004036.03a49b50@enigma> At 12:25 AM 1/30/03 +0000, you wrote: >I've been meaning to make some copies of that EPROM but I don't have a >working EPROM burned that will burn that EPROM (27c010 IIRC). I'd be happy to make copies for people if that would help. >FWIW none of my Grids have a floppy drive. The floppy drive is external >and I've never been able to find one. I've got one that you can see here: http://www.decodesystems.com/help-wanted/index.html#griddisc Unfortunately, all I have is the drive. No cables, power supply or manual. Cheers, Dan From dougdu at microsoft.com Wed Jan 29 23:40:00 2003 From: dougdu at microsoft.com (Doug Duchene) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: Spare Chips Message-ID: <61C87D3AD732F9429CC7A5E1E3A45FAA08D58327@red-msg-04.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> The EPP-2 software is available on the Art website. http://www.artbv.nl - Doug -----Original Message----- From: Paul Arts [mailto:paularts@home.nl] Sent: Tue 1/29/2013 1:17 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Cc: Subject: Re: Spare Chips I want to work my Art EPP-2 programmer but i lost the software google doesn't have what i'm looking for any of you pherhaps (its for the 27 and 28 series) Paul [demime 1.01a removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 30 00:07:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: Macintosh II up for grabs in New York City Message-ID: Contact original sender. Reply-to: silvernails@mindspring.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 23:30:09 -0500 From: Tim To: Vintage Computer Festival Subject: Re: Mac II to donate I have a Mac II (still working!) to donate. It is from 1987. Please advise if you are looking for such things. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jan 30 00:10:00 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: Lotus Signal Receiver, was Re: QUOTE or TICKER In-Reply-To: <3E388084.17E3E0D1@rain.org> References: <20030121205625.24511.qmail@web12304.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20030129165950.033e18c0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030129192206.00a9cd90@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 05:31 PM 1/29/03 -0800, Marvin Johnston wrote: >Mike, I have what I *think* is the same thing, and it is copyright 1986; >he was looking for pre 1984 or so. If you need copies of the software, >*assuming* the software I have is good, it won't be a problem. I can >bring it to TRW late this month. > >Anyone know what frequency this works on, and if the supporting >transmitter is still on the air? It indicated this was a subscription >service, and I would be most interested to know how they enforced that. > >Mike Ford wrote: > > > > At 11:46 PM 1/21/03 -0500, Jim Keohane wrote: > > > Looking for handheld quote device, ticker display or any peripheral > > > for IBM PC, Apple ][, etc. to pick up ticker broadcast via FM Broadcast > > > or geosynchronous satellite broadcast. Does not necessarilly have to be > > > functioning. User manual would be great. > > > > I have a Lotus box, but no software or paperwork. > > > > Lotus FM Receiver Mine has three ports on the back, antenna via coax F connector, serial DB25 thing, and BNC (data out, could ethernet maybe?). What platform do you have software for, and sure. ;) That will give me a good excuse to get my bones out to TRW. I think this type of device used sidebands of commercial broadcast frequencies, but I haven't looked inside, or hooked up an antenna to see what happens. No real guess on the pay/data controls, could be software, could be serial number related activation key broadcast in middle of data etc. From ssj152 at charter.net Thu Jan 30 00:17:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: ...couple of new items... References: <20030128110503.S74769-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <003b01c2c827$96b4b460$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Willing" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 1:08 PM Subject: ...couple of new items... > for the 'Garage' Garage sale... > > (regular internet connection is down, so have to live with text for > now...) > > Heath H-11A + H27 --- $300.00 > Altos 586 --- $40.00 > Altos 580 --- $40.00 > Commodore VIC-20 in original box with docs and cables - $40.00 > > Items are untested and as such are offered AS-IS. Shipping/packing > charges additional. Offers/interesting trades considered. > > Thanks; > -jim > --- > jimw@agora.rdrop.com > The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Jim, Are you OK? Caught up in a massive project, perhaps? I've emailed you (28-Jan-03 1710) claiming dibs on the H11a and H27, but haven't heard back from you or seen any other posts by you. Drop me a note or post here when you get a minute. Regards, Stuart Johnson From ssj152 at charter.net Thu Jan 30 00:19:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: Digital DNAS CD request & CD list References: Message-ID: <004601c2c827$cc2c4bd0$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Witchy" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 6:33 AM Subject: Digital DNAS CD request & CD list > Hi folks, > > Been having a good look round for my DNAS 2.2 CD and I'm pretty sure it's > currently out on loan with an ex-colleague so I'm checking and will let you > all know when it turns up. I found its box but what use is that :) > > While I was rooting through my boxes of stuff I found a lot of CDs and tapes > I'd forgotten about that might be useful in the future so here's a quick > list: (from memory) > > CDs: > InfoserverVXT > Infoserver 1000 > Infoserver Disk & Tape access > VXT Host software (VAX) > Yes, I'm a hoarder :o) > > -- > adrian/witchy > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans > Boy, I would sure like to have a copies of the Infoserver VXT, Infoserver1000, and the Infoserver Disk and Tape Access CD's! As a matter of fact, should some kind person loan them to me I would be amenable to making some copies of these CD's or most any other appropriate (owned by the lendor) CD to show my appreciation I'd even be happy with an ISO or equivalent - heck, I just easy to please! OT: What is the VXT Host Software(VAX)? Something to allow loading a VXT from a VAX instead of from an Infoserver? You have a fine collection of goodies there! With Envy, Stuart Johnson From marvin at rain.org Thu Jan 30 00:31:00 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: Lotus Signal Receiver, was Re: QUOTE or TICKER References: <20030121205625.24511.qmail@web12304.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20030129165950.033e18c0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20030129192206.00a9cd90@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <3E38C794.AD37F28E@rain.org> I would be really curious to know how this thing works (or worked if the service is no longer available.) The disks I have are for the PC or AT and are on 5 1/4" floppies (probably 360K). I'll copy them onto a 3 1/2" disk and bring it with me at the end of the month. If you have a power supply with yours, what is the polarity (if not AC) and voltage? Has anyone on the list actually used one of these things? Mike Ford wrote: > > At 05:31 PM 1/29/03 -0800, Marvin Johnston wrote: > >Mike, I have what I *think* is the same thing, and it is copyright 1986; > >he was looking for pre 1984 or so. If you need copies of the software, > >*assuming* the software I have is good, it won't be a problem. I can > >bring it to TRW late this month. > > > >Anyone know what frequency this works on, and if the supporting > >transmitter is still on the air? It indicated this was a subscription > >service, and I would be most interested to know how they enforced that. > > > >Mike Ford wrote: > > > > > > At 11:46 PM 1/21/03 -0500, Jim Keohane wrote: > > > > Looking for handheld quote device, ticker display or any peripheral > > > > for IBM PC, Apple ][, etc. to pick up ticker broadcast via FM Broadcast > > > > or geosynchronous satellite broadcast. Does not necessarilly have to be > > > > functioning. User manual would be great. > > > > > > I have a Lotus box, but no software or paperwork. > > > > > > Lotus FM Receiver > > Mine has three ports on the back, antenna via coax F connector, serial DB25 > thing, and BNC (data out, could ethernet maybe?). > > What platform do you have software for, and sure. ;) That will give me a > good excuse to get my bones out to TRW. > > I think this type of device used sidebands of commercial broadcast > frequencies, but I haven't looked inside, or hooked up an antenna to see > what happens. > > No real guess on the pay/data controls, could be software, could be serial > number related activation key broadcast in middle of data etc. From geoffr at zipcon.net Thu Jan 30 01:19:00 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: ADMIN: Demime is now active In-Reply-To: <200301300057.TAA06672@eola.ao.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030129232609.02ec4e00@mail.zipcon.net> A MIME is a horrible thing to waste..... From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jan 30 01:33:00 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: Was Removing duct tape residue, now guntalk In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030130001640.4797dca4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <20030129.182614.-112381.4.loedman1@juno.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030129232857.03422150@pop-server.socal.rr.com> > >I believe that it has to do with "protecting" our precious computers, or > >maybe the family ? > >BTW, I prefer muzzle loaders (45 and 58 cal) > > I tried those but they're too slow and messy. I prefer my 45-70 > Sharps. There's nothing like a 400+ grain bullet to get someone's attention! Nothing grabs attention like the sound of jacking a round into a pump shotgun... Course removing the residue is more than a bit messy. From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jan 30 01:34:34 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games In-Reply-To: <1043893655.3842.0.camel@crusader> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030126085038.00b0c040@mail.attbi.com> <3E3571CE.8060509@Vishay.com> <3E357639.80709@internet1.net> <1043893655.3842.0.camel@crusader> Message-ID: <3E38D59C.5080605@internet1.net> David Holland wrote: > FWIW, I'm busily downloading the whole shmere from here... > > http://www.tierraentertainment.com/ > > I suspect the old site is just that... OLD.. > > David Oh, I didn't realize that was an old site. I'm trying the new one now. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Jan 30 01:52:01 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games References: <02b101c2c7e0$bd3516d0$434a1942@starfury> <01e701c2c7e5$610ee700$0100000a@milkyway> <02f901c2c7e7$5be43350$434a1942@starfury> Message-ID: <001101c2c835$2ea54480$0100000a@milkyway> Ed Tillman wrote: > Can you tell me/us what they're like? Mama swears by them, but I > don't recall ever having seen them. And, by "PC," does that mean > current or DOS? DOS. They're basically one-puzzle-after-another games. I'm sure one of the abandonware sites will have a copy. To be honest, it's been so long since I played them, I've forgotten what they were like. In Island Of Dr. Brain, you end up solving logic problems near the end. IIRC... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jan 30 01:53:38 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: Lotus Signal Receiver, was Re: QUOTE or TICKER In-Reply-To: <3E38C794.AD37F28E@rain.org> References: <20030121205625.24511.qmail@web12304.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20030129165950.033e18c0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20030129192206.00a9cd90@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030129234531.00a8e240@pop-server.socal.rr.com> At 10:35 PM 1/29/03 -0800, Marvin Johnston wrote: >I would be really curious to know how this thing works (or worked if the >service is no longer available.) The disks I have are for the PC or AT >and are on 5 1/4" floppies (probably 360K). I'll copy them onto a 3 1/2" >disk and bring it with me at the end of the month. If you have a power >supply with yours, what is the polarity (if not AC) and voltage? > >Has anyone on the list actually used one of these things? My Google searchs show people selling them for like $400 in 2000, dropping to like $100 in 2001, and that was the last entry. Apparently FNN or Dow Jones News started the service, then Signal, then DBC, and now DBC is eSignal and appears totally internet based. One post indicated that a (perhaps older) version of TradeStation would work with the Lotus box, also pretty clearly the Lotus box could work from a simple FM antenna or connected to a satellite dish. If you can follow that link I emailed to you about google the post I mention explains a LOT (essentially a FM sideband tuner and a 9600 FSK modem with some sort of controller for a password). My power supply is hardwired to the box, and says; Lotus Information Network Corp. AD Adapter, Model NO AD-1280, Input 120v AC 60Hz 15W, Output DC 12v 800ma, and center is plus. Now that I know more about it, its a very tempting screw around with it item. ;) From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Jan 30 01:59:00 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: The H&H AoE book References: <3.0.6.16.20030130001051.479fe856@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <002d01c2c836$190d81e0$0100000a@milkyway> Joe wrote: > That's generally true of all the TAB boks. I've found few that > were worth even taking home and I certainly wouldn't PAY for them. Don't tar them all with the same brush - Gordon McComb's "Robot Builder's Bonanza" isn't a bad book; probably the best book on amateur robotics, IMO. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Jan 30 03:47:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: DEC RZ28 2gb drive In-Reply-To: ; from witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk on Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 11:13:05 CET References: Message-ID: <20030130104957.I1259@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.01.29 11:13 Witchy wrote: > Anyone know if a low level reformat is possible?? You can use sformat to reformat, repair and verify SCSI disks. (If you have a Unix system to run sformat on.) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From fm.arnold at gmx.net Thu Jan 30 04:54:00 2003 From: fm.arnold at gmx.net (Frank Arnold) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: Looking for DEC parts Message-ID: >Message: 9 >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 00:07:02 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Re: Looking for DEC parts >From: "Eric Smith" >To: >Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > >> These are the parts we are looking for: >> >> 5 pcs. DEC 21-17311-01 or 21-17311-02 >> 2 pcs. DEC 21-17312-00 or 21-17312-01 >> 2 pcs. DEC 57-00001-01 >> 2 pcs. DEC 57-00000-01 >> 2 pcs. DEC 21-15542-01 >> >> Any luck for us ?? > >You might be more likely to get a useful response if you told us what >those parts are. I've got a lot of parts, but I don't have any >inventory by part number. Those chips are: DEC 21-17311-01 or 21-17311-02 = T-11 processor DEC 21-17312-00 or 21-17312-01 = DC 319 DLART DEC 57-00001-01 = KEF11 FIS DEC 57-00000-01 = Ctrl/Data Hybride of 11/23 DEC 21-15542-01 = MMU of 11/23 I have those parts over here, and since both the original poster and myself are located in Germany, I have already dropped them a line and helped them out. Frank Arnold From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Thu Jan 30 05:37:01 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: Digital DNAS CD request & CD list Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721407C9C5@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Adrian, Jesus! Nice collection! ;) You're no doubt going to be swamped with "me too!" requests, but.. are you willing to make copies available? I am doing a major DEC software repository here, to which people have access (on an ask- first basis, legal issues and such..) so it doesnt get lost. Space is not an issue (the current array is 5x180G) and neither is bandwidth. If we can work something out (like you making ISO image copies of the CD, and making TDF dumps of the tapes) we can either ftp them over, or i can pay for you shipping a tape with em... Thanks, Fred > -----Original Message----- > From: Witchy [mailto:witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk] > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 1:34 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Digital DNAS CD request & CD list > > > Hi folks, > > Been having a good look round for my DNAS 2.2 CD and I'm > pretty sure it's > currently out on loan with an ex-colleague so I'm checking > and will let you > all know when it turns up. I found its box but what use is that :) > > While I was rooting through my boxes of stuff I found a lot > of CDs and tapes > I'd forgotten about that might be useful in the future so > here's a quick > list: (from memory) > > CDs: > InfoserverVXT > Infoserver 1000 > Infoserver Disk & Tape access > VXT Host software (VAX) > OpenVMS AXP V1.0 > OpenVMS AXP V1.5 > OpenVMS AXP V6.1 > OSF/1 T1.0 is in there somewhere; need to dig that one out too. > OSF/1 V1.3 > Alpha firmware updates from about v2.x up to 5.x (on floppy too) > Ultrix 4.2 VAX and RISC > Ultrix Layered Products, 1994? > OpenVMS Freeware from 1.0 to 5.0 > OpenVMS Internet Product Suite 1.1 > All versions of OpenVMS from 5.5 to 7.3, VAX and Alpha > Digital UNIX V3.2 > Digital UNIX Layered Products > Tru64 V4.0D and 4.0G > Tru64 Layered Products > VMS Layered Product sets from around Sep 1992 up to > 1999/2000, also current > LPs, VAX and Alpha (many boxes!) > > Tapes (TK50): > VMS 5.0 > VMS 5.2 > VMS 5.3 > VMS 5.3-1 > VMS 5.4 > VMS 5.4-2 + MUP > VMS 5.4-3 > VMS 5.5-2H4 + MUP > plus there's some I remember picking up that must be in another box I > haven't found yet, like VMS 5.5, VMS 5.0-1, VMS 5.0-2, Dibol > 4.2, DECwindows > etc. > MVII Diagnostics > Bootable PDP11/73 tape, probably RT/11 V5.4 & CTS300 V8.2 > > Yes, I'm a hoarder :o) > > -- > adrian/witchy > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans From jimkeo at multi-platforms.com Thu Jan 30 06:07:00 2003 From: jimkeo at multi-platforms.com (Jim Keohane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: Lotus Signal Receiver, was Re: QUOTE or TICKER References: <20030121205625.24511.qmail@web12304.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20030129165950.033e18c0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20030129192206.00a9cd90@pop-server.socal.rr.com> <3E38C794.AD37F28E@rain.org> Message-ID: <006201c2c858$9f74bba0$0200000a@ibm0187702152> It's my understanding (infamously unreliable) that Lotus Signal was descended from DataSpeed's Modio which was descended from DataSpeed's Quotrek which dates back as far as 1981. - Jim Jim Keohane, Multi-Platforms, Inc. "It's not whether you win or lose. It's whether you win!" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin Johnston" To: Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 01:35 Subject: Re: Lotus Signal Receiver, was Re: QUOTE or TICKER > I would be really curious to know how this thing works (or worked if the > service is no longer available.) The disks I have are for the PC or AT > and are on 5 1/4" floppies (probably 360K). I'll copy them onto a 3 1/2" > disk and bring it with me at the end of the month. If you have a power > supply with yours, what is the polarity (if not AC) and voltage? > > Has anyone on the list actually used one of these things? > > Mike Ford wrote: > > > > At 05:31 PM 1/29/03 -0800, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > >Mike, I have what I *think* is the same thing, and it is copyright 1986; > > >he was looking for pre 1984 or so. If you need copies of the software, > > >*assuming* the software I have is good, it won't be a problem. I can > > >bring it to TRW late this month. > > > > > >Anyone know what frequency this works on, and if the supporting > > >transmitter is still on the air? It indicated this was a subscription > > >service, and I would be most interested to know how they enforced that. > > > > > >Mike Ford wrote: > > > > > > > > At 11:46 PM 1/21/03 -0500, Jim Keohane wrote: > > > > > Looking for handheld quote device, ticker display or any peripheral > > > > > for IBM PC, Apple ][, etc. to pick up ticker broadcast via FM Broadcast > > > > > or geosynchronous satellite broadcast. Does not necessarilly have to be > > > > > functioning. User manual would be great. > > > > > > > > I have a Lotus box, but no software or paperwork. > > > > > > > > Lotus FM Receiver > > > > Mine has three ports on the back, antenna via coax F connector, serial DB25 > > thing, and BNC (data out, could ethernet maybe?). > > > > What platform do you have software for, and sure. ;) That will give me a > > good excuse to get my bones out to TRW. > > > > I think this type of device used sidebands of commercial broadcast > > frequencies, but I haven't looked inside, or hooked up an antenna to see > > what happens. > > > > No real guess on the pay/data controls, could be software, could be serial > > number related activation key broadcast in middle of data etc. From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Thu Jan 30 07:23:00 2003 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: Overlays, GKS... (Was: Re: New to list) References: <036001c2c417$12af85a0$0200a8c0@cosmo> <3E32B318.907FCC4C@Vishay.com> <3E341CB4.363B3474@compsys.to> <3E357AC4.8020509@Vishay.com> <3E35AA23.8DE1E590@compsys.to> <3E366764.7000503@Vishay.com> <3E38250D.7F07065A@compsys.to> Message-ID: <3E3927F1.7030704@Vishay.com> Jerome, as I wrote in an earlier mail, my primary operating system on the PDP-11 is RSX-11M (maybe sometime /PLUS is added). I had been modifying the XC handler once (we needed a PASSTHROUGH option for transparent binary serial I/O to support a paper tape punch from FORTRAN), but this was my closest encounter with "the system" so far. Everything else was merely porting existing FORTRAN code to RT-11. I have never looked into monitor data structures, so I'd have to collect knowledge (RTFM) before I could make useful contributions to a discussion. I understand Megan has a lot more knowledge and experience with RT-11, and the discussion appears to me to be already in progress. You'll no doubt get far better hints there. Good luck for your project, anyway! Andreas > I do have a question about the design and implementation. > If you have some RT-11 understanding and a knowledge of > the information kept in the fixed offsets from the start of RMON, > could I ask you a question? -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From RCini at congressfinancial.com Thu Jan 30 07:46:00 2003 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: Model 100 DVI drive Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E51273F2@MAIL10> Roger: This helps a lot. The CoCo drive I have is a single drive in a dual slimline case. I have to open it up to get the drive model numbers but at least now I have something to go on. On the cable, I would call Tandy National Parts. About 3 years ago, I ordered the DVI cable for the 102 and they had it. It was $30 or $40, but well worth it. They had bood disks too for $5. Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. First Vice President Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) -----Original Message----- From: Roger Merchberger [mailto:zmerch@30below.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:44 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Model 100 DVI drive Rumor has it that M H Stein may have mentioned these words: >From: "Cini, Richard" > > Does anyone know if the specs on the Model 100 Disk-Video Interface >is the same as the CoCo disks? I have a single-drive DVI and a single >low-profile CoCo disk drive. They physically look to be the same but I >wanted to be sure before I lashed them together. Depends... ;-) The DVI wants a "standard" 34-pin interface MFM SSDD 40-track drive -- the original CoCo drives were 35-track SSDD drives. If you put one of *these* drives in the DVI, you will most surely hear bad clunking noises when you try to format your first disk. The CoCo slimline drives came in 3 flavors: The FD-500, which was 35-track SSDD (bad) the FD-501 which was 40 track SSDD (which is OK), and the FD-502 which was 40-track DSDD (which side 1 will go unused, but should work fine). I have a DVI as well, but I don't have a boot disk or interface cable for my Tandy 200... so I have yet to use it. Hope this helps! Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From dmabry at mich.com Thu Jan 30 07:57:00 2003 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:16 2005 Subject: GRiDCase 3: Help! References: <3.0.6.16.20030130002544.4797bb12@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3E392FF3.9090704@mich.com> Maybe I shouldn't speak until I find what I will talk about, but here goes anyway. I used GRiD computers extensively during their "hey day" and I have several versions of the GRiDCase models. There was a program that I have somewhere that allows you to create MS-DOS bootable EPROM images and put files onto EPROMs for that series. It has about 10 or 15 pages of documentation. I will look for it all, scan it, and make it available to anyone who would like it. Let me know if it is worth the effort for me to do this. As long as there are a few who would use it I'll do that. Just reply to the list and I'll watch for interested folks. For a while I had a gridcase powering up each night about 3am, running a program that would recalculate on and off times for a bunch of X10 modules based on sunset and sunrise, and send that new schedule to the CP292 controller module through the serial port. All that was done on a simple GRiDCase 3 (the one with the plasma screen) and without any hard drive or floppy. It was all orchestrated from a single EPROM (or maybe it was two) that contained the boot code, and autoexec.bat, and the X-10 program. The last command it would issue to the CP292 X-10 controller was a command to kill the power to the GRiDCase itself. Every night at 3am this sequence would repeat. I thought that was a cool application for a ROM-based PC. Over the years Grid eventually removed the capability to store programs on EPROM, but I think it remained up through some of the 386-based GRiDCase models. Joe wrote: > I don't remember which model Grids I have but I've had them loose > their settings due to sitting too long and then they they couldn't > access their hard drives. All of them had a little door on the left > side above the keyboard with EPROM sockets in them. I finally found > one that had a EPROM in the socket. With that I could boot any of > them to a ***virtual*** C: drive and then update the settings and > then the computer would boot on the real C: drive even with the EPROM > removed. I've been meaning to make some copies of that EPROM but I > don't have a working EPROM burned that will burn that EPROM (27c010 > IIRC). FWIW none of my Grids have a floppy drive. The floppy drive > is external and I've never been able to find one. > > Joe > > > > At 07:04 PM 1/29/03 -0600, you wrote: > >> I not too recenly picked up a GRiDCase 3 with 2 "GRiD Disc System >> 2204" external hard drives. Just yesterday they both started acting >> up on me. It would initially spin up when you turned it on, but >> after a few seconds they would just kick off. A few seconds later I >> get a "1702" message on my screen. >> >> I'm lead to believe that there could be a configuration problem >> somewhere, but I'm not 100% sure on this. >> >> My questions are: >> >> 1. What is going on here? 2. How do I fix this? -- David Vohs >> netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net >> >> -- http://fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own >> > > > . > -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Thu Jan 30 07:59:00 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: Fw: Spectrum Holobyte's "BreakThru!" Message-ID: <000801c2c867$6fde6df0$434a1942@starfury> Thanks! Done. Ed San Antonio, Tx, USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Sharp" To: "Ed Tillman" Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 06:11 PM Subject: Re: Spectrum Holobyte's "BreakThru!" > You probably want to send this to the list instead of to me. The correct > address for posting is cctalk@classiccmp.org. > > On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, Ed Tillman wrote: > > Thanks to all, for all the input that helped me locate Spectum Holobyte's > > BreakThru! I did indeed find it on the referred abandonware page, and > > snatched while the gettin' was good. The actual file size was @ 1.2Mb > > zipped, and over 5Mb expanded, with over 4.5Mb being the wall patterns. I > > do remember it pushing Windows 3.1 and 4Mb of 30-pin RAM to its limits > > though... :) > > > > BTW: I thought I'd have to apologise for being OT about the game (still > > debatably fuzzy), but right on the splash screen - the earliest copyright > > listed was/is 1989. > > > > If I can help anyone in a like manner, please don't hesitate to holler! > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 30 08:59:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: Laserjet IIIp in Ohio In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030130150259.98859.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > > Someone was asking about paper trays for a LaserJet IIIp in Ohio. > I have a half-dozen broken LaserJet IIp's and one IIIp for parts, > including the paper trays. I live just north of Toledo. Contact > me if you still need it. > > -- > Paul R. Santa-Maria > Monroe, Michigan USA I think that was Bob Schaefer. -ethan From mtapley at swri.edu Thu Jan 30 09:37:00 2003 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: DEC Rainbow monitor in picture Message-ID: Rainbow afficionadoes, at URL http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3204407169&category=21092 (auction title = "1985 DIGITAL AD/Rainbow Computer/DEC PC/Desq", ending Feb. 4) is a picture of an advertisement (apparently clipped from a period computer magazine, from the description). While I'm annoyed with the seller (starting bid = $7.98 for *one page* of one of his old magazines??!!??), more interesting to me is the content of the ad. It shows what looks like a VR201 monitor and LK201 keyboard (presumably hooked up to a Rainbow, which is not in view), running DESQ *with a color display*. The only color monitor that I knew of that worked with a Rainbow is a VR240, and the monitor in the picture does not look like one of those to me. Question: is there a monitor that looks like a VR201 and acts (ie displays in color if connected to a Rainbow) like a VR240, or is that advertising hyperbole? I have to say that the "color display" looks photo-retouched in - the upper border of the windows line up with the monitor screen edge but the lower borders do not. - Mark No connection to the auction. From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Thu Jan 30 09:42:00 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: Was Removing duct tape residue, now guntalk References: <000101c2c80b$ea982470$6401a8c0@benchbox> Message-ID: <3E394920.3DB1E857@comcast.net> "Jeffrey S. Worley" wrote: > > > I keep them mainly for target shooting, but I once had a break-in > intruder who was very sorry he'd picked my house to rob. I didn't shoot > him. Didn't have to. I came into the living room with my 30-30, > leveled it at his chest and said 'give me your wallet'. He did and then > I let him go. > > Regards, > > Jeff I have to ask... I assume you called the police on him, and gave them his wallet? Well, with out the cash? ;-) -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Jan 30 09:44:00 2003 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: OT: the 1U system In-Reply-To: <007401c2c2fb$fd7b6ee0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030130084054.03f8ea38@pc> At 11:25 AM 1/23/2003 -0500, you wrote: >I was at LinuxWorld yesterday oogling all the 1U rackmount cluster systems there, and all that they could fit into them. It was almost funny how the tried and true classiccmp method of mounting the planar components pointing up, so the heat "falls up and off" kinda got lost. Are we supposed to lay the racks down on the floor instead? :-) - John From allain at panix.com Thu Jan 30 10:29:01 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: OT: the 1U system References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030130084054.03f8ea38@pc> Message-ID: <033d01c2c87d$2cf7cde0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Are we supposed to lay the racks down on the floor instead? :-) There are probably horizontal fittings to buy for racks to mount pieces to at 90deg angles, but a little hard to find. It's more a criticism of the system manufacturers. I wonder if disk drives fail at the same rates horizontally as they do vertically (an open question) ? John A. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 30 10:43:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: PDP-8: (and others) anyone tried NVRAM simulation of hard drives? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030130164628.10147.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Frank Arnold wrote: > >Will Jennings: > > Omnibus or Posibus? Why not Negibus? Neither Omnibus nor Posibus would > > help me on my 8/i, since mine is Negibus... > Hi, > > one way of doing this would be the use of a TU-58 tape drive. This device > is internally using a disc-like structure, and it will connect to any > serial port. Presuming you _have_ a spare serial port... (read on) > There should be a PDP8 OS8 driver for this. Is there? I don't recall ever seeing one. > The real TU58 is sweet, but terribly slow. On top of that, the tapes are > expensive. But there are cool alternatives: > > You will find a semiconductor-emulated TU58 kit on: > http://www.SpareTimeGizmos.com/Hardware/TU58_Emulator.htm > > Also there is a PC-Emulation on: > http://www.not-compatible.org/PDP-11/programs/tu58sim.html Yep. Both great alternatives. > I havn't yet used any of these, (have a real TU58)... I have several real TU58s (embedded in each 11/750, and one removed from an 11/725 that gave its life 14 years ago to keep an 11/730 running). I use the ex-11/725 drive with DOS software to backup my cartons and cartons of carts (with about an 80% success rate, owing to the age of the tapes). As for using them with a PDP-8, there are several issues that come to mind... Will (and I) want to hang a "disk" off of a negibus PDP-8/i (I wouldn't mind hanging one off of a posibus PDP-8/L, but that's a similar problem to solve). First, there are no spare serial ports on hardware that old - you get a console TTY port (implemented in a couple of dual-height cards - M706/M707, that plug into pre-wired sections of the backplane) and that's it. For external devices, there is a place to take the I/O bus off to a different cabinet over a wad of cable the diameter of your lower arm - the posi/negi-bus. Second, a "disk" type device from that era was typically a data break device (DMA) - I _think_ the first PIO disk that came out for the PDP-8 was the RX01. The throughput of a serial-port-attached device would be awful, even eliminating the seek time of a real TU58 tape. So... for an OMNIBUS or later machine (DECmate, SBC6120...), it might be a feasible option, once you have a spare serial port (for example, on my PDP-8/a, I have the console port from the DKC8AA and a KL8JA (4 port) that I've never used, but it should be possible, if there's a driver). As to Will's original question, I myself have wondered what it would take to design/build a compatible device. I would think that for maximum compatibility, it would have to resemble something like an RK8, RF08 or DF32. The IOTs and behavior are well known, and AFAIK, the engineering drawings are available from the usual places. One thing that has been slowing me down is deciding how to attach a modern device to an -8/L or -8/i - one way is to use a blank backplane and do it the traditional way, with the multitude of DEC cables. Another way would be to manufacture modern cables with DEC paddle cards on one end, and modern connectors on the other end and use a modern enclosure and connector arrangement to get to the signals. Still another would be to wire-wrap (or use individual connector pins) to tap the backside of the backplane, and route that to a modern box. The third option is most likely to be the least expensive, but a hassle to install/de-install. At a few $$$ per paddle card, the second option is only slightly more expensive (probably less than $100 for the project extra). Thoughts? Suggestions? Has anyone else been kicking this around for years? -ethan P.S. - One of my many long-term projects has been to find a way to attach / replicate an RX8E for use with an -8/i or -8/L. Perhaps that might be a good first step. After all, many of us with the CPUs probably already have the drives and diskettes. P.P.S. - However the attachment is made, whatever the IOTs, I would think that it might be a nice design goal to make the media compatible with that from an SBC6120 - several of us have been using IDE adapter frames with great success. I have an 8MB CF card with three OS/8 partitions on it (2MB each). I was contemplating going with a 20MB card and 6 partitions next. They are, I believe, easy enough to load from a modern PC (but I did mine through the SBC6120 monitor). From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Jan 30 10:53:00 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: OT: the 1U system Message-ID: Folklore for PC's was that if you recorded data on a hard drive with the platters horizontal, remounting it vertically could cause read errors. Any truth to this? -----Original Message----- From: John Allain [mailto:allain@panix.com] Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 10:32 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT: the 1U system I wonder if disk drives fail at the same rates horizontally as they do vertically (an open question) ? John A. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 30 11:02:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: OT: Anyone in/near Cambridge, MA; Kansas City, KS; or Detroit, MI looking for IT work? Message-ID: <20030130170526.25917.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> I would like to share in my recent good fortune with folks on the list (and pick up a referral bonus, naturally ;-) by attempting to hook people up with internal job postings. Write me off-list (erd_6502@yahoo.com) and tell me where you are at (from the above list of Cambridge, Kansas City or Detroit) and I'll send back job decriptions for those locations. Unfortunately, not much looks like ClassicCmp-type stuff (except the Mac Software Engr position in Cambridge), but we all gotta have current skills to keep on the treadmill. If you don't live within commuting distance of the above places, please don't write and ask me what's available - The openings for tech types are where I've described. Enjoy, -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 30 11:06:01 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: Mounting hard disks at strange angles (was RE: OT: the 1U system) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030130171006.15982.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Feldman, Robert" wrote: > Folklore for PC's was that if you recorded data on a hard drive with the > platters horizontal, remounting it vertically could cause read errors. > Any truth to this? I remember that was a commonly accepted concern back in the days when we used to have to do our own low-level formatting (ST506/ST412 drives, primarily). I think since modern drives have things packed so tightly that the thermal expansion and contraction of the platters causes the tracks to perceptibly migrate, causing drives to be *much* smarter about positioning than they used to, might have made that concern (if there ever really was one) obsolete. I've heard cautions for more modern drives that they can be mounted any way except one, typically either nose down or circuit board up, presumably due to bearing loading issues. The Amiga 4000 had the drives routinely mounted "upside down" with no concerns, but I would think that one would *never* want to do that to, say, an RK05. Anyone have any personal experiences with oddly-mounted drives? -ethan From dbwood at kc.rr.com Thu Jan 30 11:33:00 2003 From: dbwood at kc.rr.com (Douglas Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: OT: the 1U system References: Message-ID: <001301c2c886$2efcfda0$6401a8c0@kc.rr.com> Yes, but that was with older MFM drives. The latest generation of drives to not suffer from that disease. (Newer drives position the head with servo tracks; the older MFM drives positioned the head mechically which could change depending upon how the drive was mounted.) Douglas Wood Software Engineer dbwood@kc.rr.com ICQ#: 143841506 Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC http://epicis.piclist.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Feldman, Robert" To: Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 10:56 AM Subject: RE: OT: the 1U system > Folklore for PC's was that if you recorded data on a hard drive with the > platters horizontal, remounting it vertically could cause read errors. Any > truth to this? > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Allain [mailto:allain@panix.com] > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 10:32 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: OT: the 1U system > > > I wonder if disk drives fail at the same rates horizontally > as they do vertically (an open question) ? > > John A. From thompson at new.rr.com Thu Jan 30 11:35:01 2003 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: DEC RZ28 2gb drive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: RZDISK from the Compaq VMS freeware CD will low level format among other things. ********************************$ **** SCSI Disk Utility Menu ****$ ******************************** Usage: rzdisk [-q] [-m] [-b] -cdfghiprstuwy [LBN|command] [length] device Options: -f vendor device Formats disk with VENDOR only defects.8 -f known device Formats disk with all KNOWN defects.( -f device Formats a floppy diskette.. -r 1234 device Reassigns bad block (1234).8 -s 0 -1 device Scans the entire disk for bad blocks./ -i device Prints out the inquiry data info. -d bfi device Reads defect list in BFI format.7 -d sector device Reads defect list in SECTOR format. -d block device Reads defect list in BLOCK format.8 -c device Changes disk parameters to DEFAULT VALUES.8 -c ask device Changes disk parameters interactively.8 -g current device Gets CURRENT disk drive parameters.5 -g saved device Gets SAVED disk drive parameters. -g default device Gets DEFAULT disk drive parameters.> -g changeable device Gets CHANGEABLE disk drive parameters.% -p device Gets the disk capacity. -t device Test of device. -t full device Full test of device. -q (may precede any option) dumps data to/from device. -b (may precede -c or -g option) treat page 37 as foreign. -m (may precede -c option) masks parameters with changeable values.% -n Disable pagination of output. -u spin up a device (start unit) -w spin down a device (stop unit)& -y report whether device is ready" -h Prints out this help menu. On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Witchy wrote: > Hi list, > > In my old days as a DEC VAR I'd just call support on this one, but this is > my own kit so I don't have that choice. I recently found an old RZ28 > (Seagate drive I think, have to check) I'd forgotten I had so I stuck it in > my 3100-90 for testing. Stuff like $analyze/disk/repair work fine (vms 7.3 > courtesy of my last workplace :) but part way through > $analyze/media/exercise=full the drive goes offline so it obviously has a > Bad Area on it. Anyone know if a low level reformat is possible?? > > cheers > > -- > adrian/witchy > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans > -- From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Jan 30 11:37:00 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: SGI GIO64 FDDI card trade Message-ID: <20030130183932.Q1259@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Hi. I have a SGI Indigo2 [1] with a SGI GIO64 FDDI / CDDI SAS UTP card. I don't have copper ports on my concentrator, so I need the equivalent DAS fiber optic FDDI card. (SAS would do also, but DAS would better fit in my network topology.) I can trade the UTP SAS card and possibly soon a SGI Extreme GFX for the DAS fiber FDDI card. Alternative: A CDDI/copper to FDDI/fiber optic media converter or a CDDI/copper interface module for my Hirschmann MC 10-03 concentrator. If someone wants to get "rid" of this "obsolete" FDDI stuff, please drop me a mail. ;-) I am located in Germany. [1] The I2 was released 5/93, so it is nearly on topic. :-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Jan 30 11:41:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: Mounting hard disks at strange angles (was RE: OT: the 1U system) In-Reply-To: <20030130171006.15982.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20030130171006.15982.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- "Feldman, Robert" wrote: > > Folklore for PC's was that if you recorded data on a hard drive with the > > platters horizontal, remounting it vertically could cause read errors. > > Any truth to this? > > Anyone have any personal experiences with oddly-mounted drives? My venerable IBM XT spent it's long life standing on it's side next to my desk. In the fulness of time, I upgraded, and it was purchased by a friend. He came over, we put it through some confidence tests, and he took it home. And called me a half-hour later, because it wouldn't boot at all, giving a fatal HD fault. Long story short: he put it on the desk, on it's "feet", and the old 10M Seagate promptly failed. Turning it up on edge restored it to life and DOS, in that order. So we took out the HD, wrapped cardboard around it to insulate the PC board, and left it outside the PC case on it's edge. Ran for another two years like that, doing statistics number crunching (SPSS). Cheers John From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 30 12:12:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: OT: Location and GPS In-Reply-To: <90D12689EF7A0543AB11426D75D6ABC50358F069@oa4-server.oa.oclc.org> Message-ID: It's 2003. Can't the government use some lowercase letters for fuck's sake? On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Truthan,Larry wrote: > I boat, therefore I follow navigation aids and GPS service interruptions > at : > > http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/gps/default.htm > > > There is an Active Notice for Cape Canaveral Area: > Cape Canaveral, FL - AFSPC 2002-236 > For the Aviation Community > > 5 NM RADIUS OF N2828/W0835 (ORL100/042) FROM THE > SURFACE UP TO FL250. > REMARKS; INTERMITTENT DATES AND TIME; 14 DAYS > ADVANCE NOTICE WILL BE GIVEN PRIOR TO EACH EVENT. > IFR OPERATIONS BASED ON GPS NAVIGATION SHOULD > NOT BE PLANNED IN THE AFFECTED AREAS DURING THE > PERIODS INDICATED. THESE OPERATIONS INCLUDE DOMESTIC > RNAV OR LONG-RANGE NAVIGATION REQUIRING GPS. THESE > OPERATIONS ALSO INCLUDE GPS STANDALONE AND OVERLAY > INSTRUMENT APPROACH OPERATIONS. > > ON THE FOLLOWING DATES AND TIMES: > REMARKS; INTERMITTENT DATES AND TIME; 14 DAYS > ADVANCE NOTICE WILL BE GIVEN PRIOR TO EACH EVENT. > Last Updated: 2002-12-23 Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jan 30 12:16:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: Model 100 DVI drive In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E51273F2@MAIL10> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Cini, Richard wrote: > On the cable, I would call Tandy National Parts. About 3 years ago, > I ordered the DVI cable for the 102 and they had it. It was $30 or $40, but > well worth it. They had bood disks too for $5. I stuck an Augat 40 pin (gold machined pin) socket on the end of mine to protect the 40 pin plug. I used a Shugart 455 and a Teac 55B drive in mine. From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 30 12:31:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games In-Reply-To: <20030129151106.75364.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Tomer Gabel wrote: > > ... Leisure Suit Larry 1, too. > > Hey! I still have LSL1 1.0 - 5.25" original disks, not a copy (fished it > out of a pile of debris left by a departing college student a number of > years ago) > > It's... um... a *classic*! I have the original, text-based adventure game that Leisure Suit Larry is based on. It's for the Apple ][ and is called "Softporn Adventure". The opening screen: I'M IN A SLEAZY BAR. BEHIND THE BAR SITS A BARTENDER. A SIGN HANGING OVER HIM SAYS 'BEER-$100 WHISKEY-$100' THE PLACE ISN'T FURNISHED TOO WELL. A CURTAIN HANGS ON ONE WALL. NEXT TO THE CURTAIN IS A BUTTON. A FAN WHIRLS SLOWLY OVERHEAD- MOVING THE STAGNANT AIR AROUND. It's quite amusing to play. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 30 12:33:00 2003 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: PDP-8: (and others) anyone tried NVRAM simulation of hard drives? Message-ID: I think Ethan's points are excellent; in fact, the main reason I had suggest an SSD in the first place was because the real drives used with the 8/i were not very large (by modern standards). I'd like to add that a major reason for my desire for such a beast is the fact that I have absolutely no peripherals for my 8/i, nor do I have the required boards to control them if I did have them. Heck, I don't even currently have a complete machine, but I'm working on it. I'll hopefully soon have a list of needed boards I can post to the list... Anyone have any REAL manuals for the thing that they'd part with? Or a paper tape reader? Please? *begs* Will J From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 30 12:44:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games In-Reply-To: <3E3843D1.3483.CEC08B5@localhost> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Lawrence Walker wrote: > I have a progam somewhere for 8 bit Ataris that strung together a bunch > of stills of a woman performing felatio, which I found more humorous > than erotic. Also some 8- bit Demos by Michel Jarre and another even > bigger German demo programmer whose name escapes me . Some of their > sound-light programs are even now astounding. This was on-the-edge shit > and for the most part seems to be dying (what do you do when not coding > boring stuff) in favor of repeating some hi-paying sort of state > propaganda shit based on GI-Joe. They still have a lot of "Demo Parties" in Europe where folks get together and program pointless "demo" programs to show off their skills and what they can do with old machines. This is a phenomenon that unfortunately did not make its way over to the US :( Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 30 12:51:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, chris wrote: > >I have a progam somewhere for 8 bit Ataris that strung > >together a bunch of stills of a woman performing felatio, > >which I found more humorous than erotic. Also some 8- > >bit Demos by Michel Jarre and another even bigger > >German demo programmer whose name escapes me . > >Some of their sound-light programs are even now > >astounding. > > I had something for the Apple II that was similar. Animated video like > thing of two girls playing "hide the salami" with... well... a salami. French Postcards! The way it worked was that there were two pictures, one loaded into the first hi-res page and the other loaded into the second hi-res page. The two pages were then alternated to produce "animation". The obnoxious part was that it would play this loud trill between each page flips, so if you were trying to be discrete there was no chance of that. I also have a disk with a bunch of digitized porn pics more in line with what Larry was referring to. It was a slide show of fellatio shots. Very exciting for a young teenager ;) > I have NO idea what was called, or where the disk went, but I remember it > because it was to me just incredible that a computer could turn something > like that out. Never underestimate the horniness of men (especially computer geeks). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jplist at kiwigeek.com Thu Jan 30 12:57:00 2003 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > bigger German demo programmer whose name escapes me . Some of their > > sound-light programs are even now astounding. This was on-the-edge shit > > and for the most part seems to be dying (what do you do when not coding > > boring stuff) in favor of repeating some hi-paying sort of state > > propaganda shit based on GI-Joe. On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Sellam Ismail wrote: > They still have a lot of "Demo Parties" in Europe where folks get together > and program pointless "demo" programs to show off their skills and what > they can do with old machines. > This is a phenomenon that unfortunately did not make its way over to the > US :( In Chicago the Commodore folks get together once a year (Mid Sept normally) for an expo and demo coding is always included in the bill. JP From cb at mythtech.net Thu Jan 30 13:02:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games Message-ID: >French Postcards! The way it worked was that there were two pictures, one >loaded into the first hi-res page and the other loaded into the second >hi-res page. The two pages were then alternated to produce "animation". >The obnoxious part was that it would play this loud trill between each >page flips, so if you were trying to be discrete there was no chance of >that. That might have been it, but I remembered it being more animated cartoonish video. Some kind of a story went with it (the two ladies came home from the store pulled the salami from their bag, and wondered what they could do with it). The art quality was around that of ArtWorx's Strip Poker game. And I don't recall their being sound with it, but I could be wrong. The whole thing only ran 30 seconds or so IIRC. I'll have to look thru one of the online A2 archives... someone must have it imaged somewhere. -chris From dittman at dittman.net Thu Jan 30 13:06:00 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: Digital DNAS CD request & CD list In-Reply-To: <004601c2c827$cc2c4bd0$0200a8c0@cosmo> from "Stuart Johnson" at Jan 30, 2003 12:21:17 AM Message-ID: <200301301908.h0UJ8sBP015054@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > CDs: > > InfoserverVXT > > Infoserver 1000 > > Infoserver Disk & Tape access > > VXT Host software (VAX) > > Boy, I would sure like to have a copies of the Infoserver VXT, > Infoserver1000, and the Infoserver Disk and Tape Access CD's! As a matter of > fact, should some kind person loan them to me I would be amenable to making > some copies of these CD's or most any other appropriate (owned by the > lendor) CD to show my appreciation I'd even be happy with an ISO or > equivalent - heck, I just easy to please! The Infoserver VXT and 1000 images are on the OpenVMS Freeware disks and downloadable from the Compaq/HP website, but the disk and tape access aren't, so I'd like to see them. I'm also interested in the Tru64 layered products CDs, if they are recent. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From stanb at dial.pipex.com Thu Jan 30 13:17:00 2003 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: OT: Location and GPS In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 30 Jan 2003 10:12:29 PST." Message-ID: <200301301903.TAA12723@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Sellam Ismail said: > It's 2003. Can't the government use some lowercase letters for fuck's > sake? > I don't know about this particular message, but noticess of this sort frequently have to be broadcast on HF and LF radio in RTTY, TOR or NAVTEX which are 5-bit systems with no lower case. However they could easily convert to all uppercase when they do the ASCII to Baudot translation! -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From stanb at dial.pipex.com Thu Jan 30 13:18:38 2003 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: Mounting hard disks at strange angles (was RE: OT: the 1U system) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 30 Jan 2003 12:44:43 EST." Message-ID: <200301301853.SAA12580@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, John Lawson said: > On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > --- "Feldman, Robert" wrote: > > > Folklore for PC's was that if you recorded data on a hard drive with the > > > platters horizontal, remounting it vertically could cause read errors. > > > Any truth to this? > > > > Anyone have any personal experiences with oddly-mounted drives? > > My venerable IBM XT spent it's long life standing on it's side next to > my desk. In the fulness of time, I upgraded, and it was purchased by a > friend. He came over, we put it through some confidence tests, and he > took it home. And called me a half-hour later, because it wouldn't boot > at all, giving a fatal HD fault. My almost equally venerable AT was used horizontally in work but when I acquired it and took it home I ran it vertically under the desk with no problems. Still works fine, but now horizontally again. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From bmachacek at pcisys.net Thu Jan 30 13:29:01 2003 From: bmachacek at pcisys.net (Bill Machacek) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: Commodore & Kaypro Message-ID: <07db01c2c896$24366770$0200000a@xeon> I have a couple of more items that are looking for a good home. 1. A Commodore 1530 Datassette Unit (Casette Player), Model C2N-A, S/N 2267772. It is in its original box, but alas, I have no paperwork or manuals to go with it. I have not tested this item to see if it works but it looks complete and in good shape and even has a casette in it. 2. A KayPro memory card. It has both a 9 pin and a 25 pin female input connector. It has no identifying marks except the word "Kaypro" and a S/N of 2046. I can't guarantee anything about this board as I got it in a large box of mixed boards several years ago. This is not a motherboard. Please contact me if you are interested. Cost will be postage charges plus $1 for my packaging costs. Bill Machacek Colorado Springs, CO From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 30 13:32:01 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: The H&H AoE book In-Reply-To: <1421398250.20030129182949@subatomix.com> from "Jeffrey Sharp" at Jan 29, 3 06:29:49 pm Message-ID: > Due to the recommendation of several on the list, I went to the local Barnes > and Noble and picked up Horowitz & Hill's _The Art of Electronics_. You guys > weren't fibbing: this thing's great! I've only read about 10 pages so far, > but it already kicks the complete @#$% out of the book I previously had. I I thought you'd like it... As I say, it's not the only book on electronics that I use, and it's somewhat weak in some areas (RF stuff, for example). But it's a good solid introduction. If you understand all of H&H, then you'll be able to understand the other books, and work out when they're talking nonsense! I've been fooling around with electronics for 30 years or so, and doing it 'seriously for at least 20 years. I still use H&H _a lot_. OK, this probably means there are areas of electronics (many areas?) that I don't know much about, but my point is that H&H is not a book you will quickly grow out of. There's also a book of experiments, called something like 'The Student Manual for the Art of Electronics). It's good (it goes up to making a very simple 68008-based computer). My only critism is that as it was intended for a university course, it assumes you have some reasonable test gear (bench PSU, 'scope, etc) available. But even if you can't carry out all the experiments, it's worth reading it. -tony From lemay at cs.umn.edu Thu Jan 30 13:33:33 2003 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700 paper In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030130121413.00b76520@mailbox.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <200301301933.NAA13204@caesar.cs.umn.edu> I imagine they are probably still good, though depending on the temperatures they were stored at over the years the paper may have aged a bit. -Lawrence LeMay > I have several rolls of TI Silent 700 thermal paper in the original plastic > wrapping. These date to approximately 1982. What are the chances that > they are still good? And is anybody looking for some TI Silent 700 paper? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 30 13:36:12 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: The H&H AoE book In-Reply-To: <002d01c2c836$190d81e0$0100000a@milkyway> from "Philip Pemberton" at Jan 30, 3 08:03:36 am Message-ID: > Don't tar them all with the same brush - Gordon McComb's "Robot Builder's > Bonanza" isn't a bad book; probably the best book on amateur robotics, IMO. Well, I have it, but I certainly wouldn't have paid full price for it (I found it in a charity shop). I suppose it's got some good ideas in it, but much of it seems to be poorly designed and presented. I suspect you could do a lot better with a little thought. On the other hand it's better than some books on homebrew robotics... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 30 13:37:49 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: OT: the 1U system In-Reply-To: from "Feldman, Robert" at Jan 30, 3 09:56:45 am Message-ID: > Folklore for PC's was that if you recorded data on a hard drive with the > platters horizontal, remounting it vertically could cause read errors. Any > truth to this? It might be true for the old hard drives that used stepper motor positioners, or some other system where the positioning was 'absolute' rather than taking a position reference (servo) signal off the platters. With those drives, the force of gravity on the head assembly might move it slightly off-track. Servo-tracked drives position the head by reading signals off the platters, and will correct automatically for gravity, etc. -tony From computermuseum at pandora.be Thu Jan 30 13:49:00 2003 From: computermuseum at pandora.be (Computermuseum) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700 paper In-Reply-To: <200301301933.NAA13204@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: Hi, i've got a Texas Instruments Silent 700 for trade or sale... Somebody interested? (its a version with a acoustic coupler on the back of the Silent 700) With best regards, Michel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]Namens Lawrence LeMay Verzonden: donderdag 30 januari 2003 20:34 Aan: cctech@classiccmp.org Onderwerp: Re: TI Silent 700 paper I imagine they are probably still good, though depending on the temperatures they were stored at over the years the paper may have aged a bit. -Lawrence LeMay > I have several rolls of TI Silent 700 thermal paper in the original plastic > wrapping. These date to approximately 1982. What are the chances that > they are still good? And is anybody looking for some TI Silent 700 paper? From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jan 30 13:52:00 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: TRS80 HB, Calif In-Reply-To: <20030130104957.I1259@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030130114019.00a88de0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Just passing this on to the list please contact the person directly. HB is a few miles south of Los Angeles, and from talking to them on the phone looks like they would really prefer someone who could just stop by and pick it all up. Mike, I have a considerable amount of TRS80 Model 1 and 2 software. I also have a complete TRS80 Model 1 system with expansion unit, floppy drives, printer (Epson) and a VOX80X. The VOX80X is a voive input device that Radio Shack sold for use on the Model 1. Manuals are all there and I also have most of the original marketing materials (brochures, ads, etc) I am located in the Huntington Beach area. Email address is JBMcL96@aol.com From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 30 13:58:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, chris wrote: > >French Postcards! The way it worked was that there were two pictures, one > >loaded into the first hi-res page and the other loaded into the second > >hi-res page. The two pages were then alternated to produce "animation". > >The obnoxious part was that it would play this loud trill between each > >page flips, so if you were trying to be discrete there was no chance of > >that. > > That might have been it, but I remembered it being more animated > cartoonish video. Some kind of a story went with it (the two ladies came > home from the store pulled the salami from their bag, and wondered what > they could do with it). Yes, French Postcards is what it was called. The pictures were all drawings. Another scenario featured a woman bumping into a guy working at the post office licking envelopes that had a rather large tongue. Another was a lady, her maid, and a bottle of champaign. I forgot what the last one was. > And I don't recall their being sound with it, but I could be wrong. There were different versions. One version removed the obnoxious sound. > I'll have to look thru one of the online A2 archives... someone must > have it imaged somewhere. I've still got it on disk. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Technoid at 30below.com Thu Jan 30 14:02:00 2003 From: Technoid at 30below.com (Jeffrey S. Worley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: OT: the 1U system In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001301c2c89b$21fe8690$6401a8c0@benchbox> Tony gets a cigar! Yes. It is true that hard disk makers didn't warrant drives that were installed in funny positions such as on their face's or corners or whatnot. These days though it seems you could mount one on any angle you like. I've seen lots of machines with drives mounted with their 'faces' down. Back in the day, drives relied on a passive stepper scheme for alignment. These days, the stepper is replaced by a voice coil similar to a speaker's cone. The coil throws the arm around and the arm's pickup(s) 'sniff' at pre-coded positioning information on the disks to fine-tune the coil's final location. I think the reason for the switch to voice coils+wedge-servo encoded positioning was a function of cost. It takes some local intelligence on the part of the hard disk to do all that and in the early days it was just too expensive. One of the first drives I'm aware of that used this method was the popular server drive by Seagate. The ST4096. It differs from today's drive by having dedicated a whole platter to the wedge positioning information. Now they use something called 'embedded servo' where the positioning 'map' is factory encoded on the same platter(s) that user data is stored. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 2:24 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT: the 1U system > Folklore for PC's was that if you recorded data on a hard drive with the > platters horizontal, remounting it vertically could cause read errors. Any > truth to this? It might be true for the old hard drives that used stepper motor positioners, or some other system where the positioning was 'absolute' rather than taking a position reference (servo) signal off the platters. With those drives, the force of gravity on the head assembly might move it slightly off-track. Servo-tracked drives position the head by reading signals off the platters, and will correct automatically for gravity, etc. -tony From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Thu Jan 30 14:07:00 2003 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: Overlays, GKS... (Was: Re: New to list) References: <036001c2c417$12af85a0$0200a8c0@cosmo> <3E32B318.907FCC4C@Vishay.com> <3E341CB4.363B3474@compsys.to> <3E357AC4.8020509@Vishay.com> <3E35AA23.8DE1E590@compsys.to> <3E366764.7000503@Vishay.com> <3E38250D.7F07065A@compsys.to> <3E3927F1.7030704@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <3E3986D3.BB45768F@compsys.to> >Andreas Freiherr wrote: > as I wrote in an earlier mail, my primary operating system on the PDP-11 > is RSX-11M (maybe sometime /PLUS is added). Jerome Fine replies: I thought I saw a comment on RT-11. Not a problem. > I had been modifying the XC handler once (we needed a PASSTHROUGH option > for transparent binary serial I/O to support a paper tape punch from > FORTRAN), but this was my closest encounter with "the system" so far. > Everything else was merely porting existing FORTRAN code to RT-11. I > have never looked into monitor data structures, so I'd have to collect > knowledge (RTFM) before I could make useful contributions to a discussion. I have managed to avoid ethernet under RT-11. Eventually, I will look at it. But not today. > I understand Megan has a lot more knowledge and experience with RT-11, > and the discussion appears to me to be already in progress. You'll no > doubt get far better hints there. Thus far the only comment from Megan Gentry is that there will be a problem in compatibility with V5.03 up to V5.07 for any changes that I will make. When I proposed a solution for V5.03 that would be compatible with V5.07, the "far better hints" only considered what Megan opposed. While I would value any method that Megan would suggest that ensures that all of the extra code to V5.03 could also be used with V5.07, until they are provided, they can't be evaluated. At this point, Megan might be too busy looking for a new job - GOOD LUCK with that situation!! > Good luck for your project, anyway! > Andreas While I haven't heard, thus far, from anyone who understands the internals of RT-11 sufficiently to comment on the actual details of what I have proposed, my overall concept is that I want any bug fixes and enhancements made to be available to all hobby users. Since the hobby license from Mentec allows V5.03 of RT-11 (released in 1985) to be used with the Supnik emulator, V5.03 seems where I should start. If, as seems extremely unlikely right now for at least the next 10 years, Mentec changes its stand and allows V5.06 of RT-11 (released in August 1992 - so it is already over 10 years old) to be available to hobby users, then the same code will be available immediately. After I do the Y2K/Y10K bug fixes, I will ask about a few enhancements such as a PATH HANDLER, booting an MSCP RT-11 partition (i.e. a non-zero partition which V5.06 already can do because one instruction was omitted from the boot code for V5.03), and many others including some that are just for emulators. If no one else is able to help, it will be a one person group to fix the bugs. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Thu Jan 30 14:09:01 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: OT: Location and GPS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Sellam Ismail wrote: > It's 2003. Can't the government use some lowercase letters for > fuck's sake? BUT THE ALL-UPPERCASE USED IN THESE MESSAGES IS A REMNANT FROM THE DAWN OF THE COMPUTING AND THE USE OF TELETYPES! WHAT SORT OF CLASSIC COMPUTER HOBBYIST ARE YOU, ANYWAY!? HEY JEFF, CAN YOU ADD A RULE TO YOUR DEMIME FILTER TO MAKE IT SO THAT ALL OF THE MESSAGES ARE TRANSLATED INTO UPPERCASE? WE'RE WASTING PRECIOUS BANDWIDTH WITH ALL OF THIS BULKY 7 BIT ASCII CRAP. DAMN KIDS THESE DAYS, WITH THEIR PANSY-ASS-KEY TERMINALS. GET OFFA MY LAWN! -BRIAN. From cb at mythtech.net Thu Jan 30 14:20:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games Message-ID: >Yes, French Postcards is what it was called. The pictures were all >drawings. > >Another scenario featured a woman bumping into a guy working at the post >office licking envelopes that had a rather large tongue. Another was a >lady, her maid, and a bottle of champaign. I forgot what the last one >was. As I kind of figured, you are right. Those other scenarios sound familiar. >I've still got it on disk. I'm pulling what might be them off asimov as I type this. -chris From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Jan 30 14:21:47 2003 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: H-11A/H-27 (was ...couple of new items...) Message-ID: <20030130121052.K58035-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Umm... EEK! Did not expect the 'feeding frenzy' that this would start, so a 'bulk' reply is going out for the moment. Short form: everyone who inquired about this system is getting this note, as well as the 'list' ofr anyone else interested... 'First Call' on this system is going out to the first response received (via a separate message). Should that person decide not to purchase the system I will move down the list as needed... Description: (so I don't have to do this multiple more times) H-11A chassis and P/S, H-27 dual floppy drive unit, M7270 LSI-11 CPU, 64kb RAM (don't look like either DEC or Heath, but a nice board), (2) H-11-5 serial I/O, H27 Floppy I/O. No docs, unless I locate a spare set. No floppy based software, tho I do have the original paper tape based Heath software that was distributed with the unit. (so... if anyone has a copy of 'HT-11' tha tI could get... B^} ) Condition: decent. The 'usual' nick and ding for something of it's age. Should clean up rather nicely with a little TLC. No signs of notable 'abuse'. All for now on this topic. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Jan 30 14:31:01 2003 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: Contact will be a tad slow... Message-ID: <20030130123312.F58035-100000@agora.rdrop.com> ...for the near future... Lost my 'regular' internet link, so until I get something new in place I can only get to the net about once a day and for a limited amount of time. So if you are trying to contact me, be patient... I'm out here (somewhere), just slower than usual... -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From ssj152 at charter.net Thu Jan 30 14:33:01 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: OT: Location and GPS References: Message-ID: <014201c2c89f$33a40e20$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Chase" To: Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 2:12 PM Subject: Re: OT: Location and GPS > On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > It's 2003. Can't the government use some lowercase letters for > > fuck's sake? > > BUT THE ALL-UPPERCASE USED IN THESE MESSAGES IS A REMNANT > FROM THE DAWN OF THE COMPUTING AND THE USE OF TELETYPES! > WHAT SORT OF CLASSIC COMPUTER HOBBYIST ARE YOU, ANYWAY!? > > HEY JEFF, CAN YOU ADD A RULE TO YOUR DEMIME FILTER TO > MAKE IT SO THAT ALL OF THE MESSAGES ARE TRANSLATED INTO > UPPERCASE? WE'RE WASTING PRECIOUS BANDWIDTH WITH ALL OF > THIS BULKY 7 BIT ASCII CRAP. > > DAMN KIDS THESE DAYS, WITH THEIR PANSY-ASS-KEY TERMINALS. > GET OFFA MY LAWN! > > -BRIAN. Brian, How about we punch all of our messages on to cards and post PNG images of the cards for you die-hard types to decode and enjoy? Alternatively, we could post messages in Motorola or Intel paper tape format - that might be fun for you too! :-) Stuart Johnson // computer designer/builder since 1976, programmer since 1971 From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jan 30 14:36:00 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030130122853.00a851c0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> >Never underestimate the horniness of men (especially computer geeks). > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival Low res monochrome porn, it doesn't get more pathetic. Best one I remember was called something like gogo, basically a topless gogo dancer that looped endlessly in a corner of the mac screen. More on topic would be the guy that did MacPlaymate, and then one of the first CD games about some spaceship. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jan 30 14:42:00 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: OT: Location and GPS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030130124443.00a843f0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> >BUT THE ALL-UPPERCASE USED IN THESE MESSAGES IS A REMNANT >FROM THE DAWN OF THE COMPUTING AND THE USE OF TELETYPES! Hmmm, I wonder if using HTML or javascripts etc. we could send messages that show up one character at a time including the teletype sounds? From joe_web at worldonline.fr Thu Jan 30 14:50:01 2003 From: joe_web at worldonline.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=EBl_Weber?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: Commodore & Kaypro References: <07db01c2c896$24366770$0200000a@xeon> Message-ID: <001901c2c8a2$60e25ce0$bf64a8c0@amd1600plus> what do you want for the commodore? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Machacek" To: Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 8:31 PM Subject: Commodore & Kaypro > I have a couple of more items that are looking for a good home. > > 1. A Commodore 1530 Datassette Unit (Casette Player), Model C2N-A, S/N > 2267772. It is in its original box, but alas, I have no paperwork or manuals > to go with it. I have not tested this item to see if it works but it looks > complete and in good shape and even has a casette in it. > > 2. A KayPro memory card. It has both a 9 pin and a 25 pin female input > connector. It has no identifying marks except the word "Kaypro" and a S/N of > 2046. I can't guarantee anything about this board as I got it in a large box > of mixed boards several years ago. This is not a motherboard. > > Please contact me if you are interested. Cost will be postage charges plus $1 > for my packaging costs. > > Bill Machacek > Colorado Springs, CO From kth at srv.net Thu Jan 30 15:00:01 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: OT: Location and GPS References: <014201c2c89f$33a40e20$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <3E399807.80602@srv.net> Stuart Johnson wrote: > > >Brian, > >How about we punch all of our messages on to cards and post PNG images of >the cards for you die-hard types to decode and enjoy? Alternatively, we >could post messages in Motorola or Intel paper tape format - that might be >fun for you too! > >:-) > > That actually sounds like an intresting project. A program that will read in a text file, and create a PDF file containing a series of card images. Getting that faded-ribbon look for the text at the top of the cards would probably be the hardest part. From cb at mythtech.net Thu Jan 30 15:07:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games Message-ID: >Low res monochrome porn, it doesn't get more pathetic. I just DLd the images and took a look... it was what I remembered. It should be noted that this was "Hi-Res" and there were versions in color... if you want to call it that >Best one I remember was called something like gogo, basically a topless >gogo dancer that looped endlessly in a corner of the mac screen. hehe... yeah, one of my favorite DA's of the time. When feeling stressed, you just pop it open and watch her wiggle for a moment. A sure way to lighten the mood. >More on topic would be the guy that did MacPlaymate, and then one of the >first CD games about some spaceship. Well, if you are going to get into the later stuff, I think Virtual Valerie should be mentioned. It might have actually beaten the spaceship one to market (but I'm not sure). -chris From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 30 15:22:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: Free IBM PC-XT available Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030130161555.4cff7f3a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Spotted this in Melbourne Florida this morning. It's free for the taking. IBM PC-XT with original keyboard (and clear plastic cover) and IBM CGA monitor. It appears to be intact and in good condition. There are a couple of software packages with it but I grabbed the IBM packages (DOS, BASIC and Guide to Operation). It's located at Astro II "http://www.astrotoo.com/" in their free stuff pile. You need to pick up in person. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 30 15:23:38 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: GRiDCase 3: Help! In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030130004036.03a49b50@enigma> References: <3.0.6.16.20030130002544.4797bb12@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <20030130010437.5029A1ECD6@www.fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030130162433.4cffd516@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Dan, I think I'll take you up on that offer but I need to dig the Grids out. I was looking at your website, do you have a manual for the Heathkit world's Most Accurate Clock II? If so can I get a copy? My clock appears to work and you can hear the WWV signal but it never locks in on the time. I have a Mosanto counter and I THINK I have the manual for it. I'll try and find it. Joe At 12:43 AM 1/30/03 -0500, you wrote: >At 12:25 AM 1/30/03 +0000, you wrote: >>I've been meaning to make some copies of that EPROM but I don't have a >>working EPROM burned that will burn that EPROM (27c010 IIRC). > >I'd be happy to make copies for people if that would help. > >>FWIW none of my Grids have a floppy drive. The floppy drive is external >>and I've never been able to find one. > >I've got one that you can see here: >http://www.decodesystems.com/help-wanted/index.html#griddisc > >Unfortunately, all I have is the drive. No cables, power supply or manual. > > >Cheers, > >Dan From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 30 15:25:13 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: OT: the 1U system In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030130160524.4cffaef6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:56 AM 1/30/03 -0700, you wrote: >Folklore for PC's was that if you recorded data on a hard drive with the >platters horizontal, remounting it vertically could cause read errors. Any >truth to this? I've turned a lot of drives on their side, upside down, etc etc while working on various computers and I've never had any problem with them. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 30 15:26:51 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:17 2005 Subject: GRiDCase 3: Help! In-Reply-To: <3E392FF3.9090704@mich.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030130002544.4797bb12@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030130163138.4a3f9d06@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Dave, If you find the software and docs I'd love to get a copy of them. I've had several computers that had EPROM sockets for application software but none of them ever explained what was needed to use them. Joe At 09:00 AM 1/30/03 -0500, you wrote: >Maybe I shouldn't speak until I find what I will talk about, but here >goes anyway. I used GRiD computers extensively during their "hey day" >and I have several versions of the GRiDCase models. There was a program >that I have somewhere that allows you to create MS-DOS bootable EPROM >images and put files onto EPROMs for that series. It has about 10 or 15 >pages of documentation. I will look for it all, scan it, and make it >available to anyone who would like it. Let me know if it is worth the >effort for me to do this. As long as there are a few who would use it >I'll do that. Just reply to the list and I'll watch for interested folks. > >For a while I had a gridcase powering up each night about 3am, running a >program that would recalculate on and off times for a bunch of X10 >modules based on sunset and sunrise, and send that new schedule to the >CP292 controller module through the serial port. All that was done on a >simple GRiDCase 3 (the one with the plasma screen) and without any hard >drive or floppy. It was all orchestrated from a single EPROM (or maybe >it was two) that contained the boot code, and autoexec.bat, and the X-10 >program. The last command it would issue to the CP292 X-10 controller >was a command to kill the power to the GRiDCase itself. Every night at >3am this sequence would repeat. I thought that was a cool application >for a ROM-based PC. > >Over the years Grid eventually removed the capability to store programs >on EPROM, but I think it remained up through some of the 386-based >GRiDCase models. > >Joe wrote: > > I don't remember which model Grids I have but I've had them loose > > their settings due to sitting too long and then they they couldn't > > access their hard drives. All of them had a little door on the left > > side above the keyboard with EPROM sockets in them. I finally found > > one that had a EPROM in the socket. With that I could boot any of > > them to a ***virtual*** C: drive and then update the settings and > > then the computer would boot on the real C: drive even with the EPROM > > removed. I've been meaning to make some copies of that EPROM but I > > don't have a working EPROM burned that will burn that EPROM (27c010 > > IIRC). FWIW none of my Grids have a floppy drive. The floppy drive > > is external and I've never been able to find one. > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > At 07:04 PM 1/29/03 -0600, you wrote: > > > >> I not too recenly picked up a GRiDCase 3 with 2 "GRiD Disc System > >> 2204" external hard drives. Just yesterday they both started acting > >> up on me. It would initially spin up when you turned it on, but > >> after a few seconds they would just kick off. A few seconds later I > >> get a "1702" message on my screen. > >> > >> I'm lead to believe that there could be a configuration problem > >> somewhere, but I'm not 100% sure on this. > >> > >> My questions are: > >> > >> 1. What is going on here? 2. How do I fix this? -- David Vohs > >> netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net > >> > >> -- http://fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own > >> > > > > > > . > > > > >-- >Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com >Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team >NACD #2093 From ssj152 at charter.net Thu Jan 30 15:29:01 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: OT: Location and GPS References: <014201c2c89f$33a40e20$0200a8c0@cosmo> <3E399807.80602@srv.net> Message-ID: <017c01c2c8a6$764a43a0$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Handy" To: Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 3:24 PM Subject: Re: OT: Location and GPS > Stuart Johnson wrote: > > > > > > >Brian, > > > >How about we punch all of our messages on to cards and post PNG images of > > > > That actually sounds like an intresting project. > > A program that will read in a text file, and create a PDF > file containing a series of card images. > > Getting that faded-ribbon look for the text at the top of the cards > would probably be the hardest part. > YES! You've got it! What a GREAT idea!!! We could also include a "top view" image of the "virtual" deck with the diagonal "stripe" across the top (you DO remember how everyone - or at least everyone that dropped a deck at least once - made a diagonal stripe across the top of the deck so that if it was dropped it could be put back into order easier?). That way, if they dropped the email... :-) Stuart Johnson // old fart From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Jan 30 15:30:40 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: [maybe OT]: WTD: ISA bus video card + 10baseT card Message-ID: <003801c2c8a7$1be9dc80$0100000a@milkyway> Hi all, This may be stretching the 10-year rule a bit, but... I've just bought a nice little 386 motherboard, real small thing, from one of my friends. Catch is, I thought I had a VGA card, but it's walked. Soo... Does anyone here have an ISA video card suitable for a 386-based computer? I'm also after an ISA-bus network card that can do 10BaseT - a 3com Etherlink III or something similar would be great. I'd prefer it if the video card could do at least 640x480x16 colours (VGA) and 320x200x256c (MCGA), so that kinda limits it to a VGA or SVGA card. 256k or more RAM. And it must have a standard 15-way VGA high-density D-sub connector for the video output. Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From ssj152 at charter.net Thu Jan 30 15:33:01 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: OT: Location and GPS References: <014201c2c89f$33a40e20$0200a8c0@cosmo> <3E399807.80602@srv.net> Message-ID: <018d01c2c8a7$9675c770$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Handy" To: Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 3:24 PM Subject: Re: OT: Location and GPS > Stuart Johnson wrote: > > > > > > >Brian, > > > >How about we punch all of our messages on to cards and post PNG images of > > That actually sounds like an intresting project. > > A program that will read in a text file, and create a PDF > file containing a series of card images. > > Getting that faded-ribbon look for the text at the top of the cards > would probably be the hardest part. > Another thought - leave the printing across the top of the cards off and let the hard-core types write their own program to read the cards in and "verify" them. This should bring back fond memories of using their university dp center keypunch machines, or for those older programmers among us, using the machines at work. :-) Stuart Johnson From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 30 16:00:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: Rare Commodore PET Prototype Strobe Plotter Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030130171001.11577c0e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Did you guys see this? "http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2305106540" Joe From vaxzilla at jarai.org Thu Jan 30 16:05:01 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: OT: Location and GPS In-Reply-To: <014201c2c89f$33a40e20$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Stuart Johnson wrote: > How about we punch all of our messages on to cards and post PNG images > of the cards for you die-hard types to decode and enjoy? > Alternatively, we could post messages in Motorola or Intel paper tape > format - that might be fun for you too! ___________ | o o. o| | o . | | o o.o | | o o. o| | o o. oo| | o .o o| | o . | | o o. | | o o.ooo| | o o .ooo| | o . | | o oo. o| | o o.ooo| | o o .o o| | o . | | o o .o | | o o. | | o o. o| | o o.oo | | o o. oo| | o o.o | | o . | | o o . oo| | o o .o | | o o .o o| | o . o| | o o . o | | o o .o | | o o.oo | ___________ ___________ | o o.o o| | o . o | | o o . o | | o o. o| | o . o| | o o.oo | | o o.oo | ___________ From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jan 30 16:32:01 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030130122853.00a851c0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <3E39A7F4.9020908@jetnet.ab.ca> Mike Ford wrote: > Low res monochrome porn, it doesn't get more pathetic. What about the line printer nudes? > Best one I remember was called something like gogo, basically a topless > gogo dancer that looped endlessly in a corner of the mac screen. The amiga had icons, that stripped when you clicked on them. > More on topic would be the guy that did MacPlaymate, and then one of the > first CD games about some spaceship. While have seen nude patches for some games like Tomb Raider, and several of the older DOS games, many people that sold adult games wanted just having sexual content rather a good plot to the game.They still do. If I want porn I'll rent a video.If I want a good adult story I need to go to Japan, since America considers video games and animated stuff for kids only and have not developed games or videos for adults. This in some ways have hurt the computer game market, and you don't have the wide assortment of games in early years of computers. Ben. From dmabry at mich.com Thu Jan 30 16:36:01 2003 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: GRiDCase 3: Help! References: <3.0.6.16.20030130002544.4797bb12@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030130163138.4a3f9d06@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3E39A990.4000807@mich.com> Hi Joe, I'll dig it out, but it is very specifically for the Gridcase series. Is that what you want? It won't do anything for any other computers. Joe wrote: > Dave, > > If you find the software and docs I'd love to get a copy of them. > I've had several computers that had EPROM sockets for application > software but none of them ever explained what was needed to use them. > > > Joe > > At 09:00 AM 1/30/03 -0500, you wrote: > >> Maybe I shouldn't speak until I find what I will talk about, but >> here goes anyway. I used GRiD computers extensively during their >> "hey day" and I have several versions of the GRiDCase models. >> There was a program that I have somewhere that allows you to create >> MS-DOS bootable EPROM images and put files onto EPROMs for that >> series. It has about 10 or 15 pages of documentation. I will look >> for it all, scan it, and make it available to anyone who would like >> it. Let me know if it is worth the effort for me to do this. As >> long as there are a few who would use it I'll do that. Just reply >> to the list and I'll watch for interested folks. >> >> For a while I had a gridcase powering up each night about 3am, >> running a program that would recalculate on and off times for a >> bunch of X10 modules based on sunset and sunrise, and send that new >> schedule to the CP292 controller module through the serial port. >> All that was done on a simple GRiDCase 3 (the one with the plasma >> screen) and without any hard drive or floppy. It was all >> orchestrated from a single EPROM (or maybe it was two) that >> contained the boot code, and autoexec.bat, and the X-10 program. >> The last command it would issue to the CP292 X-10 controller was a >> command to kill the power to the GRiDCase itself. Every night at >> 3am this sequence would repeat. I thought that was a cool >> application for a ROM-based PC. >> >> Over the years Grid eventually removed the capability to store >> programs on EPROM, but I think it remained up through some of the >> 386-based GRiDCase models. >> >> Joe wrote: >> >>> I don't remember which model Grids I have but I've had them loose >>> their settings due to sitting too long and then they they >>> couldn't access their hard drives. All of them had a little door >>> on the left side above the keyboard with EPROM sockets in them. I >>> finally found one that had a EPROM in the socket. With that I >>> could boot any of them to a ***virtual*** C: drive and then >>> update the settings and then the computer would boot on the real >>> C: drive even with the EPROM removed. I've been meaning to make >>> some copies of that EPROM but I don't have a working EPROM burned >>> that will burn that EPROM (27c010 IIRC). FWIW none of my Grids >>> have a floppy drive. The floppy drive is external and I've never >>> been able to find one. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> >>> >>> At 07:04 PM 1/29/03 -0600, you wrote: >>> >>> >>>> I not too recenly picked up a GRiDCase 3 with 2 "GRiD Disc >>>> System 2204" external hard drives. Just yesterday they both >>>> started acting up on me. It would initially spin up when you >>>> turned it on, but after a few seconds they would just kick off. >>>> A few seconds later I get a "1702" message on my screen. >>>> >>>> I'm lead to believe that there could be a configuration problem >>>> somewhere, but I'm not 100% sure on this. >>>> >>>> My questions are: >>>> >>>> 1. What is going on here? 2. How do I fix this? -- David Vohs >>>> netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net >>>> >>>> -- http://fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your >>>> own >>>> >>> >>> >>> . >>> >> >> >> -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater >> Research Team NACD #2093 > > > . > -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jan 30 16:51:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: TEXT (WAS: Re: OT: Location and GPS In-Reply-To: <3E399807.80602@srv.net> Message-ID: > That actually sounds like an intresting project. > A program that will read in a text file, and create a PDF > file containing a series of card images. > > Getting that faded-ribbon look for the text at the top of the cards > would probably be the hardest part. ribbon?? text?? why should the cards be "INTERPRETED"? Can't y'all read Hollerith? From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jan 30 17:00:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: OT: Location and GPS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Brian Chase wrote: > > ___________ > | o o. o| | o o. c| hanging chad From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 30 17:02:00 2003 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: DEC M501 board Message-ID: Hi, Can anyone tell me if this board is supposed to have a crystal or something plugged into it? It has this little 2-hole socket-type thing on it, but without looking at others, I cannot tell if there is something that belongs there... This is part of some variation of the KW8I clock, FYI. Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 30 17:12:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: GRiDCase 3: Help! In-Reply-To: <3E39A990.4000807@mich.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20030130002544.4797bb12@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20030130163138.4a3f9d06@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030130182001.3727f498@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Dave, I don't remember the model numbers on mine and I don't even know what a Gridcase is. I guess I should dig em out and get the model numbers before you go to a lot of trouble. Joe At 05:39 PM 1/30/03 -0500, you wrote: >Hi Joe, > >I'll dig it out, but it is very specifically for the Gridcase series. >Is that what you want? It won't do anything for any other computers. > >Joe wrote: > > Dave, > > > > If you find the software and docs I'd love to get a copy of them. > > I've had several computers that had EPROM sockets for application > > software but none of them ever explained what was needed to use them. > > > > > > Joe > > > > At 09:00 AM 1/30/03 -0500, you wrote: > > > >> Maybe I shouldn't speak until I find what I will talk about, but > >> here goes anyway. I used GRiD computers extensively during their > >> "hey day" and I have several versions of the GRiDCase models. > >> There was a program that I have somewhere that allows you to create > >> MS-DOS bootable EPROM images and put files onto EPROMs for that > >> series. It has about 10 or 15 pages of documentation. I will look > >> for it all, scan it, and make it available to anyone who would like > >> it. Let me know if it is worth the effort for me to do this. As > >> long as there are a few who would use it I'll do that. Just reply > >> to the list and I'll watch for interested folks. > >> > >> For a while I had a gridcase powering up each night about 3am, > >> running a program that would recalculate on and off times for a > >> bunch of X10 modules based on sunset and sunrise, and send that new > >> schedule to the CP292 controller module through the serial port. > >> All that was done on a simple GRiDCase 3 (the one with the plasma > >> screen) and without any hard drive or floppy. It was all > >> orchestrated from a single EPROM (or maybe it was two) that > >> contained the boot code, and autoexec.bat, and the X-10 program. > >> The last command it would issue to the CP292 X-10 controller was a > >> command to kill the power to the GRiDCase itself. Every night at > >> 3am this sequence would repeat. I thought that was a cool > >> application for a ROM-based PC. > >> > >> Over the years Grid eventually removed the capability to store > >> programs on EPROM, but I think it remained up through some of the > >> 386-based GRiDCase models. > >> > >> Joe wrote: > >> > >>> I don't remember which model Grids I have but I've had them loose > >>> their settings due to sitting too long and then they they > >>> couldn't access their hard drives. All of them had a little door > >>> on the left side above the keyboard with EPROM sockets in them. I > >>> finally found one that had a EPROM in the socket. With that I > >>> could boot any of them to a ***virtual*** C: drive and then > >>> update the settings and then the computer would boot on the real > >>> C: drive even with the EPROM removed. I've been meaning to make > >>> some copies of that EPROM but I don't have a working EPROM burned > >>> that will burn that EPROM (27c010 IIRC). FWIW none of my Grids > >>> have a floppy drive. The floppy drive is external and I've never > >>> been able to find one. > >>> > >>> Joe > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> At 07:04 PM 1/29/03 -0600, you wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>> I not too recenly picked up a GRiDCase 3 with 2 "GRiD Disc > >>>> System 2204" external hard drives. Just yesterday they both > >>>> started acting up on me. It would initially spin up when you > >>>> turned it on, but after a few seconds they would just kick off. > >>>> A few seconds later I get a "1702" message on my screen. > >>>> > >>>> I'm lead to believe that there could be a configuration problem > >>>> somewhere, but I'm not 100% sure on this. > >>>> > >>>> My questions are: > >>>> > >>>> 1. What is going on here? 2. How do I fix this? -- David Vohs > >>>> netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net > >>>> > >>>> -- http://fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your > >>>> own > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> . > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater > >> Research Team NACD #2093 > > > > > > . > > > > >-- >Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com >Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team >NACD #2093 From ssj152 at charter.net Thu Jan 30 17:14:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: TEXT (WAS: Re: OT: Location and GPS References: Message-ID: <01cf01c2c8b5$d311f380$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 4:54 PM Subject: TEXT (WAS: Re: OT: Location and GPS > > That actually sounds like an intresting project. > > A program that will read in a text file, and create a PDF > > file containing a series of card images. > > > > Getting that faded-ribbon look for the text at the top of the cards > > would probably be the hardest part. > > ribbon?? text?? > why should the cards be "INTERPRETED"? > Can't y'all read Hollerith? > Back in the days when I punched cards, running them back though and having the text printed across the top was called "verifying" them, as best as I remember (Sperry - Univac computer), hence the info in my previous post. No, never learned to sight-read Hollerith. Hated punched cards - swore I'd never have anything to do with computes after college Fortran; famous last words - I became a professional programmer in 1978 and worked until retirement in 1999. "So, Stuart, how DOES crow taste?" I loved playing / working with computers as soon as terminals were available to me. The only use I ever had for punched cards was to fold one double and clean under my fingernails with it... Stuart Johnson From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jan 30 17:19:00 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: OT: Location and GPS In-Reply-To: <018d01c2c8a7$9675c770$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Stuart Johnson wrote: > > >How about we punch all of our messages on to cards and post PNG images of > Another thought - leave the printing across the top of the cards off and let > the hard-core types write their own program to read the cards in and > "verify" them. This should bring back fond memories of using their > university dp center keypunch machines, or for those older programmers among > us, using the machines at work. Absolutely. Except that the printing of text across the top is called "INTERPRET"ing. "VERIFY"ing is, instead a process of typing the same text again, and seeing if both tries matched. If so, the "VERIFY" machine would punch a notch in the side of the card. It was done as a way to increase accuracy. But we once caught a service bureau that had come up with the clever idea of prepunching the notches. Then they would punch the data onto cards that already had the "verify" notch, and save the effort of keying twice. From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 30 17:32:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, chris wrote: > >Yes, French Postcards is what it was called. The pictures were all > >drawings. > > > >Another scenario featured a woman bumping into a guy working at the post > >office licking envelopes that had a rather large tongue. Another was a > >lady, her maid, and a bottle of champaign. I forgot what the last one > >was. > > As I kind of figured, you are right. Those other scenarios sound familiar. > > >I've still got it on disk. > > I'm pulling what might be them off asimov as I type this. Get out the lotion! ;P Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ssj152 at charter.net Thu Jan 30 17:44:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: OT: Location and GPS References: Message-ID: <01eb01c2c8b9$eea52320$0200a8c0@cosmo> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 5:22 PM Subject: Re: OT: Location and GPS > On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Stuart Johnson wrote: > > > >How about we punch all of our messages on to cards and post PNG images of > > us, using the machines at work. > > Absolutely. > Except that the printing of text across the top is called "INTERPRET"ing. > "VERIFY"ing is, instead a process of typing the same text again, and > seeing if both tries matched. If so, the "VERIFY" machine would punch a > notch in the side of the card. It was done as a way to increase accuracy. > > But we once caught a service bureau that had come up with the clever idea > of prepunching the notches. Then they would punch the data onto cards > that already had the "verify" notch, and save the effort of keying twice. > I SIT corrected about the VERIFY. It has been a long time, and a lot of miles :-) Thanks! Pre-verification - HAHAHA ROFLMAO - I'll bet they were proud of themselves too! Sounds like a management decision, right out of Dilbert. Trouble is, I believe you - I worked with people like this. I guess most of us do/did. Try this one on: when I was but a young man, and an electronics technician, I was given a project to make an easy to use EPROM programmer for the production folks in our factory. I used a Heath monitor and a STD-BUS Z80 card to control a STD-BUS prom burner card. I delivered it and the manufacturing folks LOVED it. Menu driven, easy to use... Sometime later (weeks) they reported it was broken and could I fix it? To make a long story short, the manager complained in front of his folks that it took too long to burn a set of EPROM's. One of the technicians, being a bright fellow, took it upon himself to patch a copy of MY EPROM for the EPROM programmer and shorten the timing so that it would go faster. The manager was proud of him and thought that HE (the manager) had SHOWN those folks in ENGINEERING that his folks had no flies on them... and it worked, barely, until they bought a different lot of prom chips. This was the last time I delivered a package of documentation w/source code, listings, floppy media, etc. to manufacturing! Guess whose ass got chewed for this? Stuart Johnson From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 30 17:55:00 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: OT: the 1U system In-Reply-To: <001301c2c89b$21fe8690$6401a8c0@benchbox> from "Jeffrey S. Worley" at Jan 30, 3 03:06:52 pm Message-ID: > Tony gets a cigar! Sorry, don't smoke :-) > > Yes. It is true that hard disk makers didn't warrant drives that were > installed in funny positions such as on their face's or corners or Some manufacturers specifically stated that some mounting positions were not allowed, even if you formatted the drive in that position (it was often things like panel-down). I assume this was either a cooling issue, or the fact that the servo amplifier (if servo tracked) would have to work harder to keep the head on-track in that position. > One of the first drives I'm aware of that used this method was the > popular server drive by Seagate. The ST4096. It differs from today's There were older ones, I suspect, if you go to larger platters. Many of the 14" 'washing machines', and things like the RL01 and RK07 were servo-tracked. The Micropolis 1200 series (8" Winchesters) were also servo tracked. > drive by having dedicated a whole platter to the wedge positioning > information. Now they use something called 'embedded servo' where the I beleive one of the first embedded servo drives was the RL01. -tony From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jan 30 18:07:00 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: OT: the 1U system In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030130084054.03f8ea38@pc> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, John Foust wrote: > At 11:25 AM 1/23/2003 -0500, you wrote: > >I was at LinuxWorld yesterday oogling all the 1U rackmount cluster systems there, and all that they could fit into them. It was almost funny how the tried and true classiccmp method of mounting the planar components pointing up, so the heat "falls up and off" kinda got lost. > > Are we supposed to lay the racks down on the floor instead? :-) I think it's the RackSpace units that stand the system boards vertical. Sweet boxes. Doc From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 30 18:18:00 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030131002207.17514.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > --- Tomer Gabel wrote: > > > ... Leisure Suit Larry 1, too. > > > > Hey! I still have LSL1 1.0 - 5.25" original disks... > > I have the original, text-based adventure game that Leisure Suit Larry is > based on. It's for the Apple ][ and is called "Softporn Adventure". http://www.ifarchive.org/indexes/if-archiveXgamesXappleII.html There's also apparently a port to Inform, but I've never looked at it. -ethan From rschaefe at gcfn.org Thu Jan 30 19:03:01 2003 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F. Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: Laserjet IIIp in Ohio References: <20030130150259.98859.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01b001c2c8c5$208cb500$7d00a8c0@george> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 10:02 AM Subject: Re: Laserjet IIIp in Ohio > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > Someone was asking about paper trays for a LaserJet IIIp in Ohio. > > I have a half-dozen broken LaserJet IIp's and one IIIp for parts, > > including the paper trays. I live just north of Toledo. Contact > > me if you still need it. > > > > -- > > Paul R. Santa-Maria > > Monroe, Michigan USA > > I think that was Bob Schaefer. That was me looking, not offering. Just to clear things up a little. Paul, did I work up a deal with you? > > -ethan Bob From ejchapel at attbi.com Thu Jan 30 19:12:00 2003 From: ejchapel at attbi.com (Ed Chapel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030130171154.00b10810@mail.attbi.com> Amazing to see a thread about a computer game with good family values evolve into a discussion about french postcard porn. I guess the computing hobby involves a bit too much time spent alone. From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Thu Jan 30 19:38:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: In a previous life the mircomputers I used to sell were the... Message-ID: <3E39D500.6494E42B@mail.verizon.net> New: Sol-20 Commodore PET Atari 400 Atari 800 Used: IBM XT IBM AT various 286s various 486s Pentiums Mac IIs Please add to the list your personal experience of computers sales. If you didn't sell it don't add it. Eric From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Jan 30 19:51:01 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: In a previous life the mircomputers I used to sell were the... In-Reply-To: <3E39D500.6494E42B@mail.verizon.net> Message-ID: <02ae01c2c8cb$a878cac0$020010ac@k4jcw> Does it count if you worked in the computer store, but weren't directly responsible for sales? --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Eric Chomko > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 20:45 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: In a previous life the mircomputers I used to sell > were the... > > > New: > Sol-20 > Commodore PET > Atari 400 > Atari 800 > > Used: > IBM XT > IBM AT > various 286s > various 486s > Pentiums > Mac IIs > > Please add to the list your personal experience of computers sales. > If you didn't sell it don't add it. > > Eric From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Thu Jan 30 20:00:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: In a previous life the mircomputers I used to sell werethe... References: <02ae01c2c8cb$a878cac0$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <3E39DA17.35B54912@mail.verizon.net> NO! Sales... But you can, for the great benefit of the list, list the computers that you did work on, especially for the shop that made them money. Either way, the point is to list old microcomputers. Eric "J.C.Wren" wrote: > Does it count if you worked in the computer store, but weren't directly > responsible for sales? > > --John > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > Behalf Of Eric Chomko > > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 20:45 > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: In a previous life the mircomputers I used to sell > > were the... > > > > > > New: > > Sol-20 > > Commodore PET > > Atari 400 > > Atari 800 > > > > Used: > > IBM XT > > IBM AT > > various 286s > > various 486s > > Pentiums > > Mac IIs > > > > Please add to the list your personal experience of computers sales. > > If you didn't sell it don't add it. > > > > Eric From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Jan 30 20:25:01 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C.Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: In a previous life the mircomputers I used to sell werethe... In-Reply-To: <3E39DA17.35B54912@mail.verizon.net> Message-ID: <02b001c2c8d0$82241230$020010ac@k4jcw> OK, I have worked on (but not sold): Processor Tech Sol-20 IMSAI 8080 IMSAI VDP-80 Cromeco Z80 chassis Apple II Apple III Apple Lisa Poly 88 Northstar Horizon Sphere (I or II, not sure) Televideo 806 and 816 + TS-800As Altair 8800 Osbourne 1 These are the ones I definitely remember us having at The Byte Shop (later renamed to Advance Computer Technology), in Atlanta, GA. There are a lot more I have worked on, but I'll save that for another list. We also had something that I'm pretty sure was called a CDC Pegasus, but damned if I can find any info on these. I'm either misremembering the name or the mfg. It was a desk type system, dual floppies, some arcane OS that never made sense to me (like a lot of CDC products...) --John > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Eric Chomko > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 21:06 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: In a previous life the mircomputers I used to sell > werethe... > > > NO! > > Sales... > > But you can, for the great benefit of the list, list the > computers that you > > did work on, especially for the shop that made them money. Either way, > the point is to list old microcomputers. > > Eric > > "J.C.Wren" wrote: > > > Does it count if you worked in the computer store, but > weren't directly > > responsible for sales? > > > > --John > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > > > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > > Behalf Of Eric Chomko > > > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 20:45 > > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > Subject: In a previous life the mircomputers I used to sell > > > were the... > > > > > > > > > New: > > > Sol-20 > > > Commodore PET > > > Atari 400 > > > Atari 800 > > > > > > Used: > > > IBM XT > > > IBM AT > > > various 286s > > > various 486s > > > Pentiums > > > Mac IIs > > > > > > Please add to the list your personal experience of > computers sales. > > > If you didn't sell it don't add it. > > > > > > Eric From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Thu Jan 30 20:39:00 2003 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: In a previous life the mircomputers I used to sell werethe... References: <02b001c2c8d0$82241230$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <3E39E350.455A95EF@mail.verizon.net> Now THIS is a list! "J.C.Wren" wrote: > OK, I have worked on (but not sold): > > Processor Tech Sol-20 > IMSAI 8080 > IMSAI VDP-80 > Cromeco Z80 chassis > Apple II > Apple III > Apple Lisa > Poly 88 > Northstar Horizon > Sphere (I or II, not sure) > Televideo 806 and 816 + TS-800As > Altair 8800 > Osbourne 1 > Reminds me that I both worked on and sold Northstar systems as well as Micropolis. But that was mostly on Sol systems. Eric > > These are the ones I definitely remember us having at The Byte Shop (later > renamed to Advance Computer Technology), in Atlanta, GA. > > There are a lot more I have worked on, but I'll save that for another list. > > We also had something that I'm pretty sure was called a CDC Pegasus, but > damned if I can find any info on these. I'm either misremembering the name > or the mfg. It was a desk type system, dual floppies, some arcane OS that > never made sense to me (like a lot of CDC products...) > > --John > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > Behalf Of Eric Chomko > > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 21:06 > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: In a previous life the mircomputers I used to sell > > werethe... > > > > > > NO! > > > > Sales... > > > > But you can, for the great benefit of the list, list the > > computers that you > > > > did work on, especially for the shop that made them money. Either way, > > the point is to list old microcomputers. > > > > Eric > > > > "J.C.Wren" wrote: > > > > > Does it count if you worked in the computer store, but > > weren't directly > > > responsible for sales? > > > > > > --John > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > > > > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > > > Behalf Of Eric Chomko > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 20:45 > > > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > > Subject: In a previous life the mircomputers I used to sell > > > > were the... > > > > > > > > > > > > New: > > > > Sol-20 > > > > Commodore PET > > > > Atari 400 > > > > Atari 800 > > > > > > > > Used: > > > > IBM XT > > > > IBM AT > > > > various 286s > > > > various 486s > > > > Pentiums > > > > Mac IIs > > > > > > > > Please add to the list your personal experience of > > computers sales. > > > > If you didn't sell it don't add it. > > > > > > > > Eric From cb at mythtech.net Thu Jan 30 20:42:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: In a previous life the mircomputers I used to sell were the... Message-ID: >Please add to the list your personal experience of computers sales. >If you didn't sell it don't add it. Do you want actual "sales" as in worked in a computer store and pushed the stuff on people, or do you count VAR sales. If you count VAR sales, then my company VAR'd the MacXL, Toshiba T1000 laptop (I think that was the model, I have one left somewhere), Apple II+, Corona luggable, IBM System 23, and I recently came across paperwork that indicates we did the IBM 5110 as well. There may be others, those are just the ones I remember/know of (I suspect we also did the Lisa 2, 128k Mac, and have a feeling on a TeleVideo, the all in one model that had the drives/CPU mounted on end next to the tiltable monitor) -chris From djg at drs-esg.com Thu Jan 30 20:47:00 2003 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: DEC M501 board Message-ID: <200301310250.VAA04762@drs-esg.com> From: "Will Jennings" > >Can anyone tell me if this board is supposed to have a crystal or something >plugged into it? It has this little 2-hole socket-type thing on it, but >without looking at others, I cannot tell if there is something that belongs >there... This is part of some variation of the KW8I clock, FYI. > The two pin connector on the edge goes to a transformer on the bottom of an 8/I to the left of the fans. It is a schmitt trigger to convert your line frequency into a clock pulse for the real time clock. If you need a picture I can take one. The schematic is in the 8/I maintenance manual I have online, pg II-57, volume II. David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jan 30 20:58:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: In a previous life the mircomputers I used to sell were the... In-Reply-To: <3E39D500.6494E42B@mail.verizon.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030130220604.4667792a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I never sold computers but I did repair/modify: IBM 1130 Burroughs B1700 TI 99/10 Joe At 08:44 PM 1/30/03 -0500, you wrote: >New: >Sol-20 >Commodore PET >Atari 400 >Atari 800 > >Used: >IBM XT >IBM AT >various 286s >various 486s >Pentiums >Mac IIs > >Please add to the list your personal experience of computers sales. >If you didn't sell it don't add it. > >Eric From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 30 21:03:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: OT: Location and GPS In-Reply-To: <01eb01c2c8b9$eea52320$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Stuart Johnson wrote: > Pre-verification - HAHAHA ROFLMAO - I'll bet they were proud of themselves It seems as though their pre-verifications where nothing more than prevarications. Ha! ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 30 21:07:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: In a previous life the mircomputers I used to sell were the... In-Reply-To: <3E39D500.6494E42B@mail.verizon.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Eric Chomko wrote: > Please add to the list your personal experience of computers sales. If > you didn't sell it don't add it. One of the first jobs I ever talked my way into (age 18) was selling Xenix boxes for a small store. Unfortunately, they were only willing to pay on commission, so I declined. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From djg at drs-esg.com Thu Jan 30 21:11:00 2003 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: PDP-8: (and others) anyone tried NVRAM simulation of hard drives? Message-ID: <200301310315.WAA05135@drs-esg.com> From: Ethan Dicks > >As to Will's original question, I myself have wondered what it >would take to design/build a compatible device. ... >One thing that has been slowing me down is >deciding how to attach a modern device to an -8/L or -8/i - > I would recommend getting the DEC compatable cards for Dougless Electronics to plug into the 8/I and wiring them to another circuit card. With a bank of transistors you can convert from the negative bus to TTL and put a small FPGA/CPLD on the board to do all the work. Attach to that your storage of choice and your all set. A fast microcontroller might also be an option and might be needed if you want to do things like IDE/CF to emulate DF32/RF08. Might need to be a little careful that modern fast logic doesn't see/make glitches on the bus. For my online PDP-8/E the board I made is a Xilinx CPLD (they have cheap/free tools and I have the pay stuff at work) which emulated the front panel and also was a single cycle data break master for data transfers. Most of the 8/I peripherals were 3 cycle that wouldn't be too hard to do. I used a little adapter board to convert the PLCC to a PGA and then wirewrapped. I have also seen a bunch of ads for real cheap PCB prototypes if you have confidence in your design. Anybody who wants my code can have it but it is ugly. I first tried another chip and coded it in that language but the tools were too bad so switched to Xilinx and Abel. David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights. From n8uhn at yahoo.com Thu Jan 30 21:18:01 2003 From: n8uhn at yahoo.com (Bill Allen Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: Lotus Signal Receiver, was Re: QUOTE or TICKER Message-ID: <20030131032143.73520.qmail@web40705.mail.yahoo.com> Most ticker stuff was feed via geo satellitte or fm broadcast band S.C.A. (subsidarary carrier authorization) there are four sca freqs that are on channel in band fm mono data or audio services. ibm and others used sca or sat for ticker and other audio/data services. i have a clearlink plus sat modem that did two way sat link for upi or aps. it's a ku band tranciever but i did not get the orignal dish with it. it still works - you can used a standard ku band feed horn for recieve. most of the sca fm suff is off the air. the rcvrs for sca and sat are eather one way (sca) or two way(sat) addressable. thats how they controled the subscription and auth'ed users. Bill Message: 7 Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 17:31:48 -0800 From: Marvin Johnston To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Lotus Signal Receiver, was Re: QUOTE or TICKER Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org Mike, I have what I *think* is the same thing, and it is copyright 1986; he was looking for pre 1984 or so. If you need copies of the software, *assuming* the software I have is good, it won't be a problem. I can bring it to TRW late this month. Anyone know what frequency this works on, and if the supporting transmitter is still on the air? It indicated this was a subscription service, and I would be most interested to know how they enforced that. Mike Ford wrote: > > At 11:46 PM 1/21/03 -0500, Jim Keohane wrote: > > Looking for handheld quote device, ticker display or any peripheral > > for IBM PC, Apple ][, etc. to pick up ticker broadcast via FM Broadcast > > or geosynchronous satellite broadcast. Does not necessarilly have to be > > functioning. User manual would be great. > > I have a Lotus box, but no software or paperwork. > > Lotus FM Receiver > > Lotus Information Network Corp. > Burlingame, CA > Model No. 109-13011XX > FCC ID No. EVL5TTRABSTROPS > Serial No. M1300678 > > Beeps and lights blink when plugged in, so I suspect with the proper stuff > it still works, or would if the signal were still broadcast. --__--__-- From ssj152 at charter.net Thu Jan 30 21:22:00 2003 From: ssj152 at charter.net (Stuart Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: In a previous life the mircomputers I used to sell werethe... References: <02b001c2c8d0$82241230$020010ac@k4jcw> Message-ID: <026201c2c8d7$faf80fc0$0200a8c0@cosmo> OK, here is my list: Clone XT Clone AT Clone 486s Clone Pentiums I've sold more than 50 systems over the years. I had a side business selling systems. I also assembled these systems and provided support for them, including networking. // It was a small business but someone had to do it. Stuart Johnson From msell at ontimesupport.com Thu Jan 30 22:29:00 2003 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: AS/400 OS/400 Hobbyists? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030130222446.03436bd0@127.0.0.1> Guys, I'm intrigued by the availability of AS/400 machines ; the prices are within grasp of the typical mainframe/minicomputer enthusiast. However.... What are the licensing methods available for OS/400? I'd really love to get a PPC AS/400 and run Linux under control of OS/400 using the partitioning scheme. The idea of running several Linux instances on a nice cool-looking chunk of IBM hardware sounds really neat. (And yes, I have heard of and used User-Mode Linux on x86) I've seen a few messages regarding home users of AS/400, and the messages aren't very positive with respect to using one of these machines for home/hobbyist use. Does IBM have a hobbyist program similar to what is available for OpenVMS? Do licenses for OS/400 expire and start shutting down CPU availability in the machine? Are licenses applied to OS/400 such that you have to "plug in" licenses to enable certain hardware/software components? It think it would be really cool to work with an AS/400, but only if it doesn't start shutting down and beg for license renewals! Thanks for any insight that you IBM gurus have on this.... - Matt Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From geoffr at zipcon.net Thu Jan 30 22:58:00 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: HP2100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030130210425.050a0650@mail.zipcon.net> Is a HP 2100 worth rescuing ? and if I were to rescue it is there anyone who be interested in it (I'm out of room) From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 30 23:20:00 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: HP2100 In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030130210425.050a0650@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Geoff Reed wrote: > Is a HP 2100 worth rescuing ? and if I were to rescue it is there anyone > who be interested in it (I'm out of room) Absolutely. Absolutely. But aren't you "down under"? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From geoffr at zipcon.net Thu Jan 30 23:35:00 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: HP2100 In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030130210425.050a0650@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030130214203.028bc2c0@mail.zipcon.net> Nope, I'm in the seattle, Washington area At 09:20 PM 1/30/03 -0800, you wrote: >On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Geoff Reed wrote: > > > Is a HP 2100 worth rescuing ? and if I were to rescue it is there anyone > > who be interested in it (I'm out of room) > >Absolutely. > >Absolutely. > >But aren't you "down under"? > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jan 31 00:26:00 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: I opener hackable lcd pc $65 In-Reply-To: <004401c2c49e$e157cde0$0264640a@auradon.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030130222905.03068440@pop-server.socal.rr.com> One of the deal pages I haunt had this link, remember the I opener pc in a lcd screen people were sticking in a laptop drive and making little linux boxes etc.? Anyway this joint has refurbs for $65 shipped, http://www.badflash.com/iopener.html From red at bears.org Fri Jan 31 00:39:01 2003 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: HP2100 In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030130214203.028bc2c0@mail.zipcon.net> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030130210425.050a0650@mail.zipcon.net> <5.1.1.6.2.20030130214203.028bc2c0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Geoff Reed wrote: > Nope, I'm in the seattle, Washington area > Really. I could probably make room for it. I don't know much about these guys, but I'm always happy to learn. ok r. From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Jan 31 01:35:01 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: OT: Location and GPS In-Reply-To: <01eb01c2c8b9$eea52320$0200a8c0@cosmo> References: <01eb01c2c8b9$eea52320$0200a8c0@cosmo> Message-ID: <32844.64.169.63.74.1043998737.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Stuart Johnson wrote: > To make a long story short, the manager complained in front of > his folks that it took too long to burn a set of EPROM's. One of the > technicians, being a bright fellow, took it upon himself to patch a copy > of MY EPROM for the EPROM programmer and shorten the timing so that it > would go faster. The manager was proud of him and thought that HE (the > manager) had SHOWN those folks in ENGINEERING that his folks had no > flies on them... and it worked, barely, until they bought a different > lot of prom chips. This was the last time I delivered a package of > documentation w/source code, listings, floppy media, etc. to > manufacturing! Guess whose ass got chewed for this? The real problem in this case isn't that some of the EPROMs failed to verify; that was a GOOD thing because it alerted you to the situation. The REAL problem is that you've now shipped a bunch of units to customers that are marginal and are likely to fail much sooner than they should. If that had happened to me, I would have asked the VP of Engineering to raise hell and prop it up with a stick. If people in Manufacturing want to modify the production tools or process, that needs to be approved by Engineering, no exceptions. I've seen similar stupidity where a bean counter authorized the use of an alternate vendor's parts based solely on the vendor's salesman claiming they were identical, without bothering to get Engineering to qualify the alternate part. Similar result: it seemed to work for a while, but with a later batch we had problems, and the RMA rate for the units that had been shipped was very high. Turns out that though some of the timing specs for the alternate part were actually better than the original, one particular timing spec was not as good, and proved to be critical. The bean counter got fired, because this fiasco cost the company about $35K. (The supposed savings would have been about $1K.) From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Jan 31 01:43:00 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34A, RX02 up for grabs in PA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000a01c2c8fc$e9fd7190$9f42cd18@D73KSM11> I bought a huge rack of semiconductor test equipment for minimum bid from a Gov auction recently that included a PDP 11/34A and RX02 drives because I had a trip to PA and thought I could pick it up and then leave it at a relative's house until they drove out here in March. But, alas, my trip was cancelled. The stuff is at a military site near Harrisburg, PA and has to be removed from 8 a.m. to 3 p.m. on a weekday. If anyone is interested in this equipment, it is free for the taking. Send me an e-mail and I'll send you the details. First come, first served. My understanding is that you can remove whatever you want from the rack and abandon the rest. -W From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Jan 31 01:44:56 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: AS/400 OS/400 Hobbyists? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030130222446.03436bd0@127.0.0.1> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030130222446.03436bd0@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <32849.64.169.63.74.1043999224.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I'm intrigued by the availability of AS/400 machines ; the prices are > within grasp of the typical mainframe/minicomputer enthusiast. [...] > What are the licensing methods available for OS/400? I'd really love to > get a PPC AS/400 and run Linux under control of OS/400 using the > partitioning scheme. That only works on the RISC-based AS/400 and iSeries machine, and I'm not sure that it will work on the earlier models of those. Linux definitely will NOT run on the older CISC-based AS/400 machines, which are the ones that can be found cheap. The CISC architecture was actually poorly suited to Linux, but worse yet there was no customer documentation on it. The supported programming layer for the AS/400 was ILMI, and the AS/400 uses a combination of binary translation and interpretation to run ILMI code on either the CISC or RISC boxes. But on the newer RISC boxes, they now allow running other PowerPC native software (such as Linux) in a partition. That wasn't avaliable on CISC machines, and possibly not on the early RISC machines. Last I checked, pricing on a new low-end AS/400 was around $7000. I'm not sure about the current situation. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jan 31 02:16:00 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: In a previous life the mircomputers I used to sell were the... In-Reply-To: Eric Chomko "In a previous life the mircomputers I used to sell were the..." (Jan 30, 20:44) References: <3E39D500.6494E42B@mail.verizon.net> Message-ID: <10301310819.ZM9653@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 30, 20:44, Eric Chomko wrote: > > Please add to the list your personal experience of computers sales. > If you didn't sell it don't add it. Sales: BBC Microcomputer Model A,B Torch Z80 etc Acorn Econet systems Acorn Cambridge Workstation BBC Master Series Acorn Archimedes Acorn R140, R260 Microvitec monitors Repairs etc: Commodore PET 2001...4032 Apple ][, ][+, //e Exidy Sorcerer Acorn/BBC systems Acorn/SJ Econet systems Amstrad CPC range Apricot PC...Xen-i Sony Word Processor DEC PDP-11 (QBus systems) ACT Sirius Microvitec monitors Epson printers Sinclair ZX81/Spectrum/QL and probably lots of machines and peripherals I've forgotten about. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Fri Jan 31 03:03:03 2003 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030130171154.00b10810@mail.attbi.com> Message-ID: <069901c2c908$13d988e0$0101a8c0@athlon> So who remembers "The Fool's Errand" on the Mac---waaaay back! Did it ever get ported eleswhere? I never quite got all the way through it-IIRC. Dave Brown, NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Chapel" To: Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 2:16 PM Subject: Re: Sierra Adventure Games > Amazing to see a thread about a computer game with good family values > evolve into a discussion about french postcard porn. > I guess the computing hobby involves a bit too much time spent alone. From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Jan 31 03:17:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games In-Reply-To: <069901c2c908$13d988e0$0101a8c0@athlon> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030130171154.00b10810@mail.attbi.com> <069901c2c908$13d988e0$0101a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <33033.64.169.63.74.1044004837.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Dave Brown wrote: > So who remembers "The Fool's Errand" on the Mac---waaaay back! > Did it ever get ported eleswhere? I never quite got all the way through > it-IIRC. Neither did I. I guess that means we're not fools? :-) Some of the puzzles in that game were exasperating. From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Jan 31 03:29:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: Early Mac games, and SmoothTalker demo wanted (was Re: Sierra Adventure Games) In-Reply-To: <069901c2c908$13d988e0$0101a8c0@athlon> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030130171154.00b10810@mail.attbi.com> <069901c2c908$13d988e0$0101a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <33064.64.169.63.74.1044005538.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > So who remembers "The Fool's Errand" on the Mac---waaaay back! Speaking of *early* Mac games, does anyone remember "Alice" by Steve Capps? That was the *first* commercially sold game for the Macintosh, and was sold by Apple. Dark Castle and Beyond Dark Castle were also among my favorites. Remember the "Nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah!" and "Mawk, mawk!" sounds of the critters? And I'm looking for a copy of the *DEMO* version of SmoothTalker. I'd be interested in the real thing as well, but I mainly want the demo. Eric From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Jan 31 07:14:01 2003 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:18 2005 Subject: Early Mac games, and SmoothTalker demo wanted (was Re: Sierra Adventure G... Message-ID: <10e.1ddf8a68.2b6bd17c@aol.com> In a message dated 1/31/2003 4:35:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, eric@brouhaha.com writes: > >So who remembers "The Fool's Errand" on the Mac---waaaay back! > > Speaking of *early* Mac games, does anyone remember "Alice" by Steve Capps? > That was the *first* commercially sold game for the Macintosh, and was > sold by Apple. > > Dark Castle and Beyond Dark Castle were also among my favorites. > Remember the "Nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah!" and "Mawk, mawk!" sounds of > the critters? > > And I'm looking for a copy of the *DEMO* version of SmoothTalker. > I'd be interested in the real thing as well, but I mainly want the demo. > I think Crystal Quest is one of the best early Mac games, and then Spectre for later models. Anyone know where to get a copy of Virtual Valerie? I remember hearing about it years ago. -- Antique Computer Virtual Museum www.nothingtodo.org From cb at mythtech.net Fri Jan 31 07:29:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: I opener hackable lcd pc $65 Message-ID: >One of the deal pages I haunt had this link, remember the I opener pc in a >lcd screen people were sticking in a laptop drive and making little linux >boxes etc.? > >Anyway this joint has refurbs for $65 shipped, >http://www.badflash.com/iopener.html I picked one up on eBay for just under that including shipping ($20 shipping, $35 win). That was with MUCH waiting and patience to get one that low... so personally, if anyone wants one, $65 including shipping is a pretty good deal. -chris From cb at mythtech.net Fri Jan 31 07:31:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games Message-ID: >So who remembers "The Fool's Errand" on the Mac---waaaay back! > Did it ever get ported eleswhere? I never quite got all the way through >it-IIRC. Do a google search... the author still has it and its mates for sale, and yes, I think he ported it to other platforms (I found his site thru a google search a few weeks ago). -chris From cb at mythtech.net Fri Jan 31 07:33:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: Early Mac games, and SmoothTalker demo wanted (was Re: Sierra Adventure G... Message-ID: >Anyone know where to get a copy of Virtual Valerie? I >remember hearing about it years ago. I might have a copy... I think I also have VV2. I'll take a look later and let you know. -chris From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Fri Jan 31 07:47:01 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games References: <02b101c2c7e0$bd3516d0$434a1942@starfury> <01e701c2c7e5$610ee700$0100000a@milkyway> <02f901c2c7e7$5be43350$434a1942@starfury> <001101c2c835$2ea54480$0100000a@milkyway> Message-ID: <005201c2c92e$efbf1070$434a1942@starfury> I went to 2 aw pages, and fount that the Dr Brain sequels are still outside public domain.... These are pretty honest pagemasters -- if its been released, they tell when and by whom... Still looking though. If I can discover who owns the rights, I'll buy the games... Cheers! Ed San Antonio, Tx, USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Pemberton" To: Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 01:57 AM Subject: Re: Sierra Adventure Games > Ed Tillman wrote: > > Can you tell me/us what they're like? Mama swears by them, but I > > don't recall ever having seen them. And, by "PC," does that mean > > current or DOS? > DOS. They're basically one-puzzle-after-another games. I'm sure one of the > abandonware sites will have a copy. > To be honest, it's been so long since I played them, I've forgotten what > they were like. In Island Of Dr. Brain, you end up solving logic problems > near the end. IIRC... > > Later. > -- > Phil. > philpem@dsl.pipex.com > http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Jan 31 07:57:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: OT: Location and GPS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E3A8FC3.26402.39AF1809@localhost> > On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Brian Chase wrote: > > ___________ > > | o o. o| > | o o. c| hanging chad Rubbish, real punchers don't leave chads. You'll always need crappy hardware, very humid conditions and especialy the influence of some notorious politicians. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Fri Jan 31 07:59:01 2003 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: The Fools Errand (Was: Sierra Adventure Games) Message-ID: <1168100827-52235@watermarkpress.com> > So who remembers "The Fool's Errand" on the Mac---waaaay back! > Did it ever get ported eleswhere? I never quite got all the way through > it-IIRC. I just finished it yesterday. With much help from the solutions guide and an electronic spelling dictionary. :) http://www.fools-errand.com/ Cliff Johnson has downloads for Mac and Windows of various games. One sad thing about the version of _The_Fools_Errand_ he distributes it has no sound. He removed all of the sound from TFE becuase it caused any Mac newer than a MacPlus to crash. Anybody have a copy of TFE that still contains sound? -- tim lindner, sf, ca, us tlindner@ix.netcom.com We could use him as a footstool -- Or a table to play Scrabble on Then tie him up and beat him up -- And throw him out of Babylon! From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Fri Jan 31 08:05:01 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030126085038.00b0c040@mail.attbi.com> <3E3571CE.8060509@Vishay.com> <3E357639.80709@internet1.net> <1043893655.3842.0.camel@crusader> <3E38D59C.5080605@internet1.net> Message-ID: <005801c2c931$7c94c420$434a1942@starfury> Old or not, I went to it, and am well pleased with what I found! Cheers! Ed San Antonio, Tx, USA > David Holland wrote: > > FWIW, I'm busily downloading the whole shmere from here... > > > > http://www.tierraentertainment.com/ > > > > I suspect the old site is just that... OLD.. > > > > David > > Oh, I didn't realize that was an old site. I'm trying the new one now. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Fri Jan 31 08:07:01 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030126085038.00b0c040@mail.attbi.com> <3E3571CE.8060509@Vishay.com> <3E357639.80709@internet1.net> <1043893655.3842.0.camel@crusader> Message-ID: <006201c2c931$978e2190$434a1942@starfury> Me too! :) Cheers! Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Holland" To: "Classic Computer Talk" Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 08:27 PM Subject: Re: Sierra Adventure Games > FWIW, I'm busily downloading the whole shmere from here... > > http://www.tierraentertainment.com/ > > I suspect the old site is just that... OLD.. > > David > > > On Mon, 2003-01-27 at 13:11, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > > > > I tried downloading it but got errors when clicking on cetain links on > > the web site, including the download page. > > > > Chad Fernandez > > Mcihigan, USA From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Fri Jan 31 08:16:00 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: Mounting hard disks at strange angles (was RE: OT: the 1U system) References: <20030130171006.15982.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00f301c2c932$efad3950$434a1942@starfury> I haven't had any problems hanging them with CB up, down, or the drive (whole computer) on its side. My biggest drive issues were power spikes, jolts to a running system, and heat expansion/overheating. 15 years experience has gotten me out of those scrapes... Ed San Antonio, Tx, USA it vertically could cause read errors. > > Any truth to this? > > I remember that was a commonly accepted concern back in the days when > we used to have to do our own low-level formatting (ST506/ST412 drives, > primarily). I think since modern drives have things packed so tightly > that the thermal expansion and contraction of the platters causes the > tracks to perceptibly migrate, causing drives to be *much* smarter > about positioning than they used to, might have made that concern > (if there ever really was one) obsolete. > > I've heard cautions for more modern drives that they can be mounted > any way except one, typically either nose down or circuit board up, > presumably due to bearing loading issues. The Amiga 4000 had the > drives routinely mounted "upside down" with no concerns, but I > would think that one would *never* want to do that to, say, an > RK05. > > Anyone have any personal experiences with oddly-mounted drives? > > -ethan From ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com Fri Jan 31 08:22:00 2003 From: ETILLMAN at satx.rr.com (Ed Tillman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: Removing duct tape residue. References: <200301292000.PAA25256@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <011501c2c933$c6bdd580$434a1942@starfury> Hmm... In my early BBS sysop days, we called felines "furry keyboard covers." That went with the conventions of abbreviating everything as well -- ROFLMAOAST(HOOT)C"... Anyone remember those? And while we're at it, who remmbes when "smileycons" started? Cheers! Ed San Antonio, Tx, USA > And thusly Fred Cisin spake: > > > > for quite a while. Just wack them with the keyboard, or drop the whole > > thing on them (which might even work for mice) > > > > Gross!!! Isn't that a little messy? Ever heard of a feline??! > > Cheers, > > Bryan From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Jan 31 08:24:00 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: Early Mac games, and SmoothTalker demo wanted (was Re: Sierra In-Reply-To: <33064.64.169.63.74.1044005538.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Jan 31, 03 01:32:18 am Message-ID: <200301311423.JAA02155@wordstock.com> And thusly Eric Smith spake: > > Dark Castle and Beyond Dark Castle were also among my favorites. > Remember the "Nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah!" and "Mawk, mawk!" sounds of > the critters? I used to *love* playing Dark Castle at the computer section in Sear's. (Remeber when they used to sell computers?!) Cheers, Bryan From cb at mythtech.net Fri Jan 31 08:44:09 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: The Fools Errand (Was: Sierra Adventure Games) Message-ID: >Anybody have a copy of TFE that still contains sound? Yes. I was able to beat it without a solution guide... but I did make use of a pocket electronic spelling dictionary :-) -chris From cb at mythtech.net Fri Jan 31 08:49:01 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: Early Mac games, and SmoothTalker demo wanted (was Re: Sierra Adventure G... Message-ID: >>Anyone know where to get a copy of Virtual Valerie? I >>remember hearing about it years ago. > >I might have a copy... I think I also have VV2. I'll take a look later >and let you know. Ok, I have Virtual Valerie, but now I have changed computers and your email address is on my other computer... so I'm letting you know via the list, sorry. I don't see Virtual Valerie 2 in my list of software, but I thought I had it as well... alas if it isn't in my database, then I can't say for sure where it would be (I do have a ton of software that hasn't made it into my database yet, so I can't rule it out... but I can say that it isn't something that will surface soon). -chris From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 31 18:50:02 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: OT: Re: I opener hackable lcd pc $65 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030131151020.57816.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- chris wrote: > >One of the deal pages I haunt had this link, remember the I opener pc in > >a lcd screen people were sticking in a laptop drive and making little > >linux boxes etc.? Yep. I have a couple that I bought new for $99. One is factory pristine, the other has been hacked there and back again (blue e-mail lights, red disk activity lights, custom BIOS splash screen with Tux, etc., and the JAILBAIT Linux distro). > >Anyway this joint has refurbs for $65 shipped, > >http://www.badflash.com/iopener.html He's the guy that people depended on for flash chips back in the early days of the iOpener. Assuming he's gotten faster on the response (or less swamped), AFAIK, he's a good guy to deal with. > I picked one up on eBay for just under that including shipping ($20 > shipping, $35 win). That was with MUCH waiting and patience to get one > that low... so personally, if anyone wants one, $65 including shipping is Not bad, but I agree that $65 for an over-the-counter price is pretty good. -ethan P.S. - one of the hacks that I have some of the parts for, but not all, is to add the CF socket on the side. I don't have the quantities of SMT resistor packs needed to make it all live. From cb at mythtech.net Fri Jan 31 18:54:33 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: Early Mac games, and SmoothTalker demo wanted (was Re: Sierra Adventure G... Message-ID: >>Anyone know where to get a copy of Virtual Valerie? I >>remember hearing about it years ago. > >I might have a copy... I think I also have VV2. I'll take a look later >and let you know. Ok, I have Virtual Valerie, but now I have changed computers and your email address is on my other computer... so I'm letting you know via the list, sorry. I don't see Virtual Valerie 2 in my list of software, but I thought I had it as well... alas if it isn't in my database, then I can't say for sure where it would be (I do have a ton of software that hasn't made it into my database yet, so I can't rule it out... but I can say that it isn't something that will surface soon). -chris From dan at ekoan.com Fri Jan 31 18:56:22 2003 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: Wanted: HP 9880 hard disk drive Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030131103825.049dc110@enigma> Hello, I'm looking for an Hewlett-Packard 9880A/B hard disk drive to use with a 9830 desktop computer, either to buy or borrow. I've got half a dozen platters for this drive that I'd like to pull the data from. Does anyone have, or know where I could find such a drive? Or even borrow some time on someone's working drive? Any leads would be appreciated. If it's relevant, I'm located on the east coast of the United States. Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 31 18:58:18 2003 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: PDP-8: (and others) anyone tried NVRAM simulation of hard drives? In-Reply-To: <200301310315.WAA05135@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: <20030131155147.37392.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- David Gesswein wrote: > From: Ethan Dicks > >One thing that has been slowing me down is > >deciding how to attach a modern device to an -8/L or -8/i... > > > I would recommend getting the DEC compatable cards for Dougless > Electronics to plug into the 8/I and wiring them to another circuit card. That was one of my options. Any ideas about what to use for the cabling? I've seen three types used in real DEC hardware - coax (with the lowest propagation delay and longest bus lengths possible), mylar flat cable, and stranded-wire ribbon cable. Obviously, a roll of ordinary ribbon cable is probably going to be the cheapest and easiest for hobbyists to work with. I suppose with only one device, and in the same cabinet, it shouldn't pose too many problems. What would you estimate the entire harness to run? $100? > With a bank of transistors you can convert from the negative bus to TTL > and put a small FPGA/CPLD on the board to do all the work. If I were more comfortable with FPGA/CPLD design, I would probably go that route. My expertise is more in microprocessors; I was contemplating throwing an MC68000 on the other end of the bus since I have extensive stocks (dozens of tubes), a large assortment of hardware debugging tools (code trace analyzers, a Flike 9010A, etc.) and lots of expertise. I was thinking of recycling the COMBOARD design - 1/4 of the memory map is "shared memory" - there is a circuit between the 68000 and the host bus that initiates DMA cycles when the 68000 reads/writes to it. I have used a COMBOARD to test the RAM in a PDP-11/03 via this shared memory interface. Not the most efficient way to do it, but with the tools/skills I have, it's how _I_ would do it. Naturally, if someone else does the engineering work, I can *build* stuff that I didn't design. -ethan From drido at optushome.com.au Fri Jan 31 19:00:02 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games In-Reply-To: <20030130235500.84538.7022.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030201025555.01115424@mail.optushome.com.au> >> Hey! I still have LSL1 1.0 - 5.25" original disks, not a copy (fished it >> out of a pile of debris left by a departing college student a number of >> years ago) >> > It's... um... a *classic*! >I have the original, text-based adventure game that Leisure Suit Larry is >based on. It's for the Apple ][ and is called "Softporn Adventure". I have the Atari 800 version, from memory there was also a TRS-80 version. I'm sure I have an ad for it in at least one of my old magazines. I know I remember ads for a series of porn themed text adventures, not sure if they are related. Some of them were simple black and white text ads, but at least one has a picture of a cheesecake model in a teddy sitting on a bed with a TRS-80 model 3. From drido at optushome.com.au Fri Jan 31 19:01:41 2003 From: drido at optushome.com.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games In-Reply-To: <20030130235500.84538.7022.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030201030614.01115424@mail.optushome.com.au> >>On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Lawrence Walker wrote: >> >> I have a progam somewhere for 8 bit Ataris that strung together a bunch >> of stills of a woman performing felatio, which I found more humorous >> than erotic. Also some 8- bit Demos by Michel Jarre and another even >> bigger German demo programmer whose name escapes me . Some of their >> sound-light programs are even now astounding. This was on-the-edge shit >> and for the most part seems to be dying (what do you do when not coding >> boring stuff) in favor of repeating some hi-paying sort of state >> propaganda shit based on GI-Joe. Along those lines there was "Sex Cartoons" for the Commodore 64, a series black and white cartoons that looped. One high school I attended had a room full of Commodore 64s running from a shared 1541 via some peripheral sharing unit. At the start of class everyone would do LOAD"*",8,1 to boot from whatever disk was in the drive. One day I replaced the typing tutor disk with a copy of "Sex Cartoons". At 13 years of age seeing that running on a room full of Commodore 64s was worth the week of detention I got for it. Then there was "Party Games" on the Amiga, imagine a Decathlon style joystick waggling game with somewhat different graphics. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Fri Jan 31 19:03:20 2003 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: HP2100 In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030130210425.050a0650@mail.zipcon.net> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20030130210425.050a0650@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <20030131085940.K82295@agora.rdrop.com> On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Geoff Reed wrote: > Is a HP 2100 worth rescuing ? IMHO - YES! > and if I were to rescue it is there anyone > who be interested in it (I'm out of room) And depending on location, YES!! (again) -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 31 19:05:01 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: Sun 3 Hardware available in the Portland Area Message-ID: If anyone is interested in some Sun 3 stuff in the Portland, OR area, contact "rick at eaglet rain com". I'm not sure what he has, he contacted me, and since I wasn't interested, I offered to forward it to the mailing list. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Jan 31 19:07:01 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: GRiDCase 3: Help! In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030130004036.03a49b50@enigma> References: <3.0.6.16.20030130002544.4797bb12@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3E3A5E13.2140.1522EB3E@localhost> On 30 Jan 2003, , Dan Veeneman wrote: > At 12:25 AM 1/30/03 +0000, you wrote: > > I'd be happy to make copies for people if that would help. > > >FWIW none of my Grids have a floppy drive. The floppy drive > >is external and I've never been able to find one. > > I've got one that you can see here: > http://www.decodesystems.com/help-wanted/index.html#griddisc > > Unfortunately, all I have is the drive. No cables, power > supply or manual. > > > Cheers, > > Dan I have one of these drives as well as a regular 5.25" and a 3.5. I think it's a SCSI fdd. I don't have a SCSI module for my Grid 1520 to test it on unfortunately. Hoping one will turn up some day. I think the Gridcase 3 had that connector on it. Lawrence lgwalker@ mts.net From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Jan 31 19:08:43 2003 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: GRiDCase 3: Help! In-Reply-To: <3E392FF3.9090704@mich.com> Message-ID: <3E3A5E12.2556.1522EABC@localhost> There's an EPROM set-up for the Grid 15xx on the Yahoo Grid mailing list, but without the documentation, that might be similiar. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RuGRiD-Laptop/files/ I'd like to see your files if you can find them. Lawrence On 30 Jan 2003, , Dave Mabry wrote: > Maybe I shouldn't speak until I find what I will talk about, > but here goes anyway. I used GRiD computers extensively > during their "hey day" and I have several versions of the > GRiDCase models. There was a program that I have somewhere > that allows you to create MS-DOS bootable EPROM images and > put files onto EPROMs for that series. It has about 10 or > 15 pages of documentation. I will look for it all, scan it, > and make it available to anyone who would like it. Let me > know if it is worth the effort for me to do this. As long > as there are a few who would use it I'll do that. Just > reply to the list and I'll watch for interested folks. > > For a while I had a gridcase powering up each night about > 3am, running a program that would recalculate on and off > times for a bunch of X10 modules based on sunset and > sunrise, and send that new schedule to the CP292 controller > module through the serial port. All that was done on a > simple GRiDCase 3 (the one with the plasma screen) and > without any hard drive or floppy. It was all orchestrated > from a single EPROM (or maybe it was two) that contained the > boot code, and autoexec.bat, and the X-10 program. The last > command it would issue to the CP292 X-10 controller was a > command to kill the power to the GRiDCase itself. Every > night at 3am this sequence would repeat. I thought that was > a cool application for a ROM-based PC. > > Over the years Grid eventually removed the capability to > store programs on EPROM, but I think it remained up through > some of the 386-based GRiDCase models. > > Joe wrote: > > I don't remember which model Grids I have but I've had > them loose > their settings due to sitting too long and > then they they couldn't > access their hard drives. All of > them had a little door on the left > side above the > keyboard with EPROM sockets in them. I finally found > one > that had a EPROM in the socket. With that I could boot any > of > them to a ***virtual*** C: drive and then update the > settings and > then the computer would boot on the real C: > drive even with the EPROM > removed. I've been meaning to > make some copies of that EPROM but I > don't have a working > EPROM burned that will burn that EPROM (27c010 > IIRC). > FWIW none of my Grids have a floppy drive. The floppy drive > > is external and I've never been able to find one. > > Joe > > > > > At 07:04 PM 1/29/03 -0600, you wrote: > >> I not > too recenly picked up a GRiDCase 3 with 2 "GRiD Disc System > >> 2204" external hard drives. Just yesterday they both > started acting >> up on me. It would initially spin up when > you turned it on, but >> after a few seconds they would > just kick off. A few seconds later I >> get a "1702" > message on my screen. >> >> I'm lead to believe that there > could be a configuration problem >> somewhere, but I'm not > 100% sure on this. >> >> My questions are: >> >> 1. What is > going on here? 2. How do I fix this? -- David Vohs >> > netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net >> >> -- http://fastmail.fm - > Choose from over 50 domains or use your own >> > > > . > > > > -- > Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com > Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team > NACD #2093 lgwalker@ mts.net From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Jan 31 19:14:13 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: OT: Location and GPS In-Reply-To: <32844.64.169.63.74.1043998737.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <01eb01c2c8b9$eea52320$0200a8c0@cosmo> <32844.64.169.63.74.1043998737.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > proved to be critical. The bean counter got fired, because this fiasco > cost the company about $35K. (The supposed savings would have been > about $1K.) > Geez Eric, I dunno what planet you were working on, but every company I've been with, half the production staff and every one of the janitors would have been abruputly shown the door on a Thurday afternoon, and the Bean Counter in question would have been promoted to Exec VP at some expensive off-site PR extravaganza... then the salry and hiring freeze, coupled with telephone usage scrutiny and new draconian Corporate Recycling Guidlines. ; {} Cheers John From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 31 19:15:58 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: HP2100 In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030130210425.050a0650@mail.zipcon.net> from "Geoff Reed" at Jan 30, 3 09:05:36 pm Message-ID: > Is a HP 2100 worth rescuing ? and if I were to rescue it is there anyone Stop asking silly questions :-). It's a minicomputer and it's an HP. _Of course_ it's worth rescuing... > who be interested in it (I'm out of room) Where are you? This sort of machine is not easy to ship (I remember carrying an HP2100A CPU and they're not light), so you need to find somebody near you, I guess. -tony From geoffr at zipcon.net Fri Jan 31 19:17:36 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: Ok, details. Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030131112806.05794ec0@mail.zipcon.net> I've got the 2100 now. no paper tape reader :( oh well.... it's a HP 2100A main chassis, i -THINK- it has it's full compliment of boards, I also have 2 HP 2640B terminals that went with it (according to the guy I got it from) he may also have 2 more of the terminals. one of the keyboards has some plastic damage but they -look- like they should be functional. unfortunately he doesn't have any of the cabling except the one connected to the terminal's keyboard. From geoffr at zipcon.net Fri Jan 31 19:19:17 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: HP 2100A Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030131113031.02613ec0@mail.zipcon.net> Oh, I am -NOT- going to power any of htis up, I don't want to chance blowing anything, this is a ca. ~ 1974 system so there's no knowing what condition the caps are in... From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Jan 31 19:21:05 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 w/APL on ePay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000401c2c964$db4cef00$9f42cd18@D73KSM11> There's an IBM 5100 with APL up for bid on eBay, but not in the category that it should be so the bid has stayed "relatively" low, although reserve has not been met. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2304208659&category=1 79 -W From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Fri Jan 31 19:23:01 2003 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games References: Message-ID: <072e01c2c965$b63fce70$0101a8c0@athlon> Tks Chris (and Tim) Googling never crossed my mind-thort it would have been dead and gone long ago. Now I will have to see if I'm 'equal' to the challenge again! --- Heh! Heh! --solutions guide!! Dave B Christchurch, NZ > >So who remembers "The Fool's Errand" on the Mac---waaaay back! From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 31 19:24:58 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: FA: Custom HP-41 ROMs, S-100 cards, Data I/O programmer parts, more Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030131164849.5637d23a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I'm still putting stuff on E-bay. Today I added two custom ROMs for the HP-41 calculator, S-100 Stepper Motor Driver boards, 6U wire wrap cards, Omnibyte VME card manuals, HP 263x Printing Terminal manuals, Cisco manuals, sockets for the Data I/O Unipak 2B insert of the 19 and 29 EPROM programmers and more. Take a look at . Joe From rborsuk at colourfull.com Fri Jan 31 19:26:55 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: IMS S-100 In-Reply-To: <000a01c2c8fc$e9fd7190$9f42cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: Hi All, I've recently acquired a IMS International 186 User-Processor card for S-100 bus. Does anyone have information on this card? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Rob Borsuk rborsuk@colourfull.com http://www.colourfull.com Michigan, USA From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Jan 31 19:30:01 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: Cool external FD by Nintendo Message-ID: <012801c2c990$f71e31e0$420add40@oemcomputer> Today at the thrift I found a red case/black face/yellow button external 3.5 FD by Nintendo model HVC-022. Most of the writing on it is in Japanese. It was missing the ac adapter and cable. Copyright date on it is 1985. Anyone else have one of these? From teoz at neo.rr.com Fri Jan 31 19:31:41 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: Any Amiga users on this list? Message-ID: <002e01c2c990$dbe53360$b5291941@neo.rr.com> Hi, Anybody here using Amiga 500's? From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Jan 31 19:37:00 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: Server Delay, was Re: OT: Location and GPS In-Reply-To: References: <01eb01c2c8b9$eea52320$0200a8c0@cosmo> <32844.64.169.63.74.1043998737.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: Interesting to note that I posted this at 11:00am PST, and it has just now (along with another big 'burp' of posts) appeared on My Screen. Cheerz John From red at bears.org Fri Jan 31 19:42:00 2003 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: Any Amiga users on this list? In-Reply-To: <002e01c2c990$dbe53360$b5291941@neo.rr.com> References: <002e01c2c990$dbe53360$b5291941@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, TeoZ wrote: > Anybody here using Amiga 500's? Yes. ok r. From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Jan 31 19:43:39 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: Any Amiga users on this list? References: <002e01c2c990$dbe53360$b5291941@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <014b01c2c992$bbf41920$420add40@oemcomputer> I have 4 of them in my collection and used them back in 1995. ----- Original Message ----- From: "TeoZ" To: Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 7:25 PM Subject: Any Amiga users on this list? > Hi, > > Anybody here using Amiga 500's? From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Jan 31 19:46:00 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: OT: Location and GPS In-Reply-To: References: <32844.64.169.63.74.1043998737.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3E3B3433.30539.3C316D0C@localhost> > > proved to be critical. The bean counter got fired, because this fiasco > > cost the company about $35K. (The supposed savings would have been > > about $1K.) > Geez Eric, I dunno what planet you were working on, but every company > I've been with, half the production staff and every one of the janitors > would have been abruputly shown the door on a Thurday afternoon, and the > Bean Counter in question would have been promoted to Exec VP at some > expensive off-site PR extravaganza... then the salry and hiring freeze, > coupled with telephone usage scrutiny and new draconian Corporate > Recycling Guidlines. Sounds more what I experienced over the years, and I work at a company which sole existance is to screw things up that way. I mean, as in designing a nice low cost slim line ISDN phone, just to find a 'manager' replaceing a 40 cent speaker by a replacement part fo only 17 cents ... times 100.000 realy a great improvement. And he even didn't need to ask engeneering, because the chineese supplyer said it's in spec ... when the stuff arived at the factory the base was just by 2/10th of a mm to big ... no problem, have the PCBs redrilled and it works. They even managed it to be cost neutral (well, using up most of the 23 saved cents per pice). Several tousands got sold, and a huge number of complains did come in. in hands free mode the phone was basicly unusable. Not only because of the poor speaker quality, but also due heavy coupling between mike and speaker... Of course the next step was to blame the audio calibration depatment for poor quality ckecks and bad design (oh, did I mention that they stoped sending in samples for audio checks after the irst few days of production - which of course still had the original speaker, not the cost saveing part). The audio engineer needed about 20 minutes to figure that due tolerances in height of the speakers base at some 40% of all phones made the speaker contact to the upper case, exactly the same plastic part where the hands free microphone was mounted. The result? The audio department are the bad guys, the manager got promoted. You want more, what about saving a one time cost of ca. 5000 Euro for molding tools for a case, just to be find again that the original design did need additional structures to avoide audio problems ... as a result a way more powerfull (and expensive) DSP had to be used to calculate the systematic noise out of the signal, and all, because a years production of housings had already be made before the first phone was produced! Hey, they could save a few bucks if they did it as one big order. To me one of the most unbelivable things is that our over all quality is still rated top notch ... Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Fri Jan 31 19:53:00 2003 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: Ultrix V4.20 sources and binaries Message-ID: <0302010150.AA21709@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Hi everyone, A number of people have complained to me about not being able to unpack the tarball with Ultrix V4.20 sources that has been on my FTP site since May 2001. I have finally found the time to look into the problem and indeed the file was corrupt. Fortunately, I was able to read my old backup tapes (from Cleveland, OH, 1999-07-15) without any problems, and discovered to my great joy that this file was good on my Cleveland machine. (It apparently got corrupted in one of the turbulent moves from Cleveland to Dallas, TX and then to Orange County, CA. I don't have any idea how.) ivan.Harhan.ORG:/pub/UNIX/thirdparty/Ultrix-32/sources now contains *good* Ultrix V2.00 and V4.20 sources. (Be warned, though, that this machine resides in my cave which is connected to the outside world through a modem which usually connects at 31200 BPS, sometimes 28800. Feel free to set up a mirror.) For what it's worth, I have also put up my Ultrix V4.20 distribution tape images in /pub/UNIX/thirdparty/Ultrix-32/ult420vaxdist-tk50. They are quite incomplete, however, as when I had the tape in my hand (at CWRU in spring 1998) I was unable to read it entirely without errors. Therefore, the V4.00 tape images in /pub/UNIX/thirdparty/Ultrix-32/ult400vaxdist-tk50 will probably be more useful for most people. If you have the guts, install V4.00 and then recompile V4.20 from the sources! -- Michael Sokolov Programletarian Freedom Fighter International Free Computing Task Force Let the Source be with you Programletarians of the world, unite! From dmabry at mich.com Fri Jan 31 20:09:00 2003 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: GRiDCase 3: Help! References: <3.0.6.16.20030130002544.4797bb12@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3E3A5E13.2140.1522EB3E@localhost> Message-ID: <3E3B2B68.3040001@mich.com> The connector on the 5.25" external disk drive for a GRiDCase 3 uses the "expansion connector" on the computer. IIRC the drive has one on the top of the drive case and one on the bottom, both at the back and they can pivot 90 degrees or so. They are meant to allow more than one peripheral to be stacked, the bottom connector of one mating to the top of the other. At one end there would be a cable that went to the computer. It isn't SCSI, but more likely similar to a pre-ISA (like maybe the 8-bit one) bus connector. Other peripherals included a hard drive, but I can't remember what else. Lawrence Walker wrote: > On 30 Jan 2003, , Dan Veeneman wrote: > > >>At 12:25 AM 1/30/03 +0000, you wrote: >> >>I'd be happy to make copies for people if that would help. >> >> >>>FWIW none of my Grids have a floppy drive. The floppy drive >>>is external and I've never been able to find one. >> >>I've got one that you can see here: >>http://www.decodesystems.com/help-wanted/index.html#griddisc >> >>Unfortunately, all I have is the drive. No cables, power >>supply or manual. >> >> >>Cheers, >> >>Dan > > > I have one of these drives as well as a regular 5.25" and > a 3.5. I think it's a SCSI fdd. I don't have a SCSI module > for my Grid 1520 to test it on unfortunately. Hoping one > will turn up some day. I think the Gridcase 3 had that > connector on it. > > Lawrence > lgwalker@ mts.net > > . > -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From paulm064 at icqmail.com Fri Jan 31 20:19:01 2003 From: paulm064 at icqmail.com (pmulry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: aviion 4000 info Message-ID: <007c01c2c999$40e4a220$5f55ddcb@earth2> I recently aquired a Data General 4000 series server . It appears to be complete (except for keyboard ,mouse and manuals as usual) ;however, before i give it juice would like to confirm its condition. Can anyone help me with manuals or point me towards downloadable manuals (any thing that would be useful). Internet search returned very little info. thanks From fernande at internet1.net Fri Jan 31 20:33:01 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: Old Commodore Model 202 adding machine Message-ID: <3E3B30E2.3030100@internet1.net> Hey all, I just saw an old Commodore adding machine, model 202, or something similar, at one of the local Goodwill outlets. It was cheap, but I have no interest in it myself. Do I need to go back tomorrow and pick it up from someone???? This is something I haven't seem before, and I don't want to pass it up if someone else really wants it. I'll do this for about $5.00 over my cost. I think the thing was labeled at $1.99, or something similar. Shipping will probably be the biggest cost, if I pack it well. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 31 20:58:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: IMS S-100 In-Reply-To: References: <000a01c2c8fc$e9fd7190$9f42cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030131215957.6b9f21e6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Rob, I think I just saw one of those on E-bay. IIRC the seller didn't have any docs either. Joe At 07:27 PM 1/31/03 -0500, you wrote: >Hi All, > I've recently acquired a IMS International 186 User-Processor card >for S-100 bus. Does anyone have information on this card? Any help >would be appreciated. > >Thanks >Rob Borsuk >rborsuk@colourfull.com >http://www.colourfull.com >Michigan, USA From teoz at neo.rr.com Fri Jan 31 21:05:01 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: Any Amiga users on this list? References: <002e01c2c990$dbe53360$b5291941@neo.rr.com> <014b01c2c992$bbf41920$420add40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <001e01c2c99e$28231a00$b5291941@neo.rr.com> Know of anyplace where I can get a A590 HD addon for my A500 cheap? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keys" To: Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 8:39 PM Subject: Re: Any Amiga users on this list? > I have 4 of them in my collection and used them back in 1995. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "TeoZ" > To: > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 7:25 PM > Subject: Any Amiga users on this list? > > > > Hi, > > > > Anybody here using Amiga 500's? From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jan 31 21:18:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: IMS S-100 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030131215957.6b9f21e6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <000a01c2c8fc$e9fd7190$9f42cd18@D73KSM11> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20030131222155.5777ddda@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I just found the auction again. It's at . Now you can have TWO boards with no docs :-) Joe At 09:59 PM 1/31/03, I wrote: >Rob, > > I think I just saw one of those on E-bay. IIRC the seller didn't have any docs either. > > Joe > >At 07:27 PM 1/31/03 -0500, you wrote: >>Hi All, >> I've recently acquired a IMS International 186 User-Processor card >>for S-100 bus. Does anyone have information on this card? Any help >>would be appreciated. >> >>Thanks >>Rob Borsuk >>rborsuk@colourfull.com >>http://www.colourfull.com >>Michigan, USA From class at fliptronics.com Fri Jan 31 21:51:01 2003 From: class at fliptronics.com (Philip Freidin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: HP 5423A analyzer In-Reply-To: <00bc01c2bdab$3efcb000$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <00bc01c2bdab$3efcb000$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <8fgm3vg8sn2golulhg4j59b53ld1687kcl@4ax.com> On Thu, 16 Jan 2003 16:04:31 -0600, you wrote: >I just receive an HP 5423A Structural Dynamics Analyzer. I have no interest >in it, but being curious, what the heck is it used for?? From googling I get >the impression it does fourier modal testing? > >Jay "Idly curious" West This is the same as the system that I offered you about 2 years ago that you had little interest in. I found some one else to give it to. It does FFT and other signal processing functions. Inside is an embedded 21MX but with the front pannel replaced with the custom panel for the 5423A. 64KB semiconductor memory, microcode extensions, and sw loaded from cartridge tape. The system should comprise 3 boxes, the control box (with 21MX inside), a display box with 2 cartridge tape drives, and an A/D box for data acquisition. Have fun, Philip Freidin ================= Philip Freidin philip@fliptronics.com From rborsuk at colourfull.com Fri Jan 31 22:03:00 2003 From: rborsuk at colourfull.com (Robert Borsuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: IMS S-100 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20030131222155.5777ddda@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: What the hey, maybe I'll go for it. Could always use parts if I figure the thing out. Rob On Friday, January 31, 2003, at 10:21 PM, Joe wrote: > I just found the auction again. It's at > eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=3400024564>. Now you can > have TWO boards with no docs :-) > > Joe > > At 09:59 PM 1/31/03, I wrote: >> Rob, >> >> I think I just saw one of those on E-bay. IIRC the seller didn't >> have any docs either. >> >> Joe >> >> At 07:27 PM 1/31/03 -0500, you wrote: >>> Hi All, >>> I've recently acquired a IMS International 186 User-Processor card >>> for S-100 bus. Does anyone have information on this card? Any help >>> would be appreciated. >>> >>> Thanks >>> Rob Borsuk >>> rborsuk@colourfull.com >>> http://www.colourfull.com >>> Michigan, USA From spc at conman.org Fri Jan 31 22:07:00 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: Any Amiga users on this list? In-Reply-To: <002e01c2c990$dbe53360$b5291941@neo.rr.com> from "TeoZ" at Jan 31, 2003 08:25:51 PM Message-ID: <200302010403.XAA23764@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great TeoZ once stated: > > Hi, > > Anybody here using Amiga 500's? I have one, but I haven't used it since I moved last year, as it's still packed up. And while I have countless games for the system, I had more fun programming it, since the OS is soooo sweet (what's not to like about it? Microkernel message based OS ... very clean design). -spc (Sigh ... no longer have the room to set it up though ... ) From ernestls at attbi.com Fri Jan 31 22:09:00 2003 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: Another apology In-Reply-To: <01C2C76C.9ED2B680@mse-d03> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of M H Stein > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 5:01 AM > To: 'ClassicComputers' > Subject: Another apology > > > To everyone who's waiting to hear from me > about stuff I've offered, another apology! > Been awfully busy with work & health matters > and haven't had time to look at things in > detail, but you'll all hear from me Real > Soon Now... > > mike in Toronto No problem. How do we get a hold of you via email? Your old account isn't working anymore. From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 31 22:16:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: Sierra Adventure Games In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20030201030614.01115424@mail.optushome.com.au> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Feb 2003, Dr. Ido wrote: > Then there was "Party Games" on the Amiga, imagine a Decathlon style > joystick waggling game with somewhat different graphics. That's awesome! But for all the work involved, I'd rather be doing the real thing ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 31 22:19:01 2003 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:19 2005 Subject: Cool external FD by Nintendo In-Reply-To: <012801c2c990$f71e31e0$420add40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Keys wrote: > Today at the thrift I found a red case/black face/yellow button external 3.5 > FD by Nintendo model HVC-022. Most of the writing on it is in Japanese. It > was missing the ac adapter and cable. Copyright date on it is 1985. Anyone > else have one of these? I think I do. I know someone who definitely does. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ian_primus at yahoo.com Fri Jan 31 22:20:38 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:20 2005 Subject: cool find. In-Reply-To: <10301261359.ZM4778@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <0369CFC2-359C-11D7-A6F2-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Sunday, January 26, 2003, at 08:59 AM, pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: > > If you show us the contents of /etc/resolv.conf, /etc/nsswitch.conf, > /etc/config/static-route.options (if you're going through a gateway > like a > local router) or if you're using PPP: /etc/ppp.conf (obscure the > passwords!), and the output of netstat -ia, netstat -rn, and ifconfig > -a, > we might be able to figure it out. Is routed or gated running? > yp/nis? > named? I cat'ed the files and commands, and transferred them through the network to another machine. /etc/resolv.conf ---------------- nameserver 24.92.33.2 nameserver 24.92.33.3 nameserver 192.168.0.1 /etc/config/static-route.options -------------------------------- # static-route.options # # The network startup script, /etc/init.d/network, invokes this # script to set static routes. Site-dependent static routes should # be put here. # # Because name services are not active when this file is invoked, any # names used here should be defined in /etc/hosts. # # Read `man route`. # # Since $ROUTE and $QUIET are set in /etc/init.d/network, it is convenient # to use `route` commands similar to the following here: # # $ROUTE $QUIET add -net 10 192.0.2.3 # or # $ROUTE $QUIET add 192.168.1.1 192.0.2.5 $ROUTE $QUIET add net default 192.168.0.1 output of netstat -ia --------------------- Name Mtu Network Address Ipkts Ierrs Opkts Oerrs Coll ec0 1500 192.168 sgi_indigo2 122 0 43 0 9 224.0.0.1 08:00:69:09:26:f7 lo0 8304 loopback 127.0.0.1 2790 0 2790 0 0 224.0.0.1 output of netstat -rn --------------------- Routing tables Internet: Destination Gateway Netmask Flags Refs Use Interface default 192.168.0.1 UGS 0 0 ec0 127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 UH 19 2 lo0 192.168 link#1 0xffffff00 UC 0 0 ec0 192.168.0.44 127.0.0.1 UGHS 0 0 lo0 192.233.228 link#1 0xffffff00 UCS 0 0 ec0 192.233.229 link#1 0xffffff00 UCS 0 0 ec0 192.233.230 link#1 0xffffff00 UCS 0 0 ec0 192.233.231 link#1 0xffffff80 UCS 0 0 ec0 192.233.231.128 link#1 0xffffffc0 UCS 0 0 ec0 192.233.231.192 link#1 0xffffffe0 UCS 0 0 ec0 224 link#1 0xf0000000 UCS 0 0 ec0 255.255.255.255 192.168.0.255 UGHS 0 0 ec0 output of ifconfig -a --------------------- ec0: flags=400c43 inet 192.168.0.44 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 192.168.0.255 lo0: flags=1849 inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000 > You mentioned "your router". Does your router do DNS? If you have > /etc/resolv.conf pointing to the same nameservers as your router is, > and > you also list the router itself, and the router is doing some form of > NAT, > chances are that replies to DNS requests from your machine will get > lost. My router is a Netgear RT-311. It's set up to be used as a DNS, and really doesn't do much routing, other than to route incoming traffic on port 80 to my webserver (when it's actually running) > > What happens if you use nslookup? Can you ping other local hosts by > name? > Remote hosts? I can communicate with machines on the local network via their IP addresses, and I can also access remote servers if I manually enter the IP address into a ping command or a netscape window. I cannot ping an address directly, for example "ping www.google.com" yields "ping: Cannot resolve "www.google.com"(Unknown host)" I have tried nslookup, and it doesn't work. For some reason, nslookup does work on all the machines on my network. On the Indigo2, it hangs for a while, then eventually returns: *** Can't find server name for address 24.92.33.2; Timed out *** Can't find server name for address 24.92.33.3; Timed out *** Can't find server name for address 192.168.0.1; Non-existent host/domain *** Default servers are not available On my PowerMac G4 (Mac OS X) I get: *** Can't find server name for address 192.168.0.1: Non-existent host/domain *** Default servers are not available On my old Linux box (Slackware 8.0 on a K6-233), I get: Note: nslookup is deprecated and may be removed from future releases. Consider using the `dig' or `host' programs instead. Run nslookup with the `-sil[ent]' option to prevent this message from appearing. Server: 192.168.0.1 Address: 192.168.0.1#53 Non-authoritative answer: Name: www.google.com Address: 216.239.53.100 The odd thing is that I really didn't give the Linux box any different information than the Mac. I just assigned an IP address, punched in "192.168.0.1" for a DNS server, and assigned some arbitrary host name. In the case of the Linux box I jokingly called it "mainframe", even though it it only used to shuffle files around and for IRC via an old Wyse terminal. The mac is called "SarkMac" (OK, so I'm not that creative) I am rather confused about what to use for a domain name on a small local network. For a while I used 'home' or something. Does it really matter? Does it have to be uniform? The ironic thing is that I know a lot about networking and the associated technology, but there are just a couple little areas I'm fuzzy in, or where the concepts never quite clicked. This is further complicated by the fact that I use so many different platforms - a couple flavors of Unix, different versions of Mac OS and one Windows machine. Everything is called something different in every system, and some systems have more options and settings than others. Any help would be appreciated. This is a good excuse to finally learn these little things I have been ignoring until now Thanks for your help! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From sml49 at attbi.com Fri Jan 31 22:23:00 2003 From: sml49 at attbi.com (Seth Lewin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:20 2005 Subject: The Fools Errand (Was: Sierra Adventure Games) In-Reply-To: <20030131180001.985.98692.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: > From: cctalk-request@classiccmp.org > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:00:01 -0600 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #424 - 60 msgs > > Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 06:01:04 -0800 > Subject: The Fools Errand (Was: Sierra Adventure Games) > From: "tim lindner" > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Anybody have a copy of TFE that still contains sound? I have an ancient copy of this game on two 800K floppies - whether it has sound or not I'm not sure as I don't have a system 6 Mac handy to test with but it dates to maybe 1988 or 1989 - I have a note to myself on one disk that it's "not Multifinder compatible and needs to be run after restarting with the Command (Apple) key down", which locks out Multifinder. If you'd like a copy I'll make disk images and e-mail them... Seth Lewin From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Jan 31 22:49:00 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:20 2005 Subject: PDP-8: (and others) anyone tried NVRAM simulation of hard drives? References: <20030131155147.37392.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E3B507B.2070009@jetnet.ab.ca> Ethan Dicks wrote: > If I were more comfortable with FPGA/CPLD design, I would probably go > that route. My expertise is more in microprocessors; I was contemplating > throwing an MC68000 on the other end of the bus since I have extensive > stocks (dozens of tubes), a large assortment of hardware debugging tools > (code trace analyzers, a Flike 9010A, etc.) and lots of expertise So what is wrong with a 8 bit cpu since a 68000 is overkill. BGmicro has surplus 512k x 8 flash $1.00 each if need cheap memory but they have real HD's for $21.50 each. Now my question is" are you designing a new interface or emulating a old one". Ben. Personaly I have hard time dealing with a CPU on a i/o card that is more powerfull than the PDP. From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Fri Jan 31 22:52:00 2003 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:20 2005 Subject: Cool external FD by Nintendo In-Reply-To: <012801c2c990$f71e31e0$420add40@oemcomputer> References: <012801c2c990$f71e31e0$420add40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <20030201044938.818342237E@www.fastmail.fm> Now you've went and found something out of the ordinary. Well, from an American standpoint, anyway. The FDD you describe is an external 3" (*not* 3.5") drive that plugged into the main unit, this would prove to be the item that kept the Famicom alive until cartridge production prices dropped to acceptable consumer levels (at its release, game carts. were 4,500+Y, new!) . The FDD uses 3" disks, similar to the ones that were popular (for a time) in the European computer market in the early 80's. I'm not sure if you can use this with an American NES, but I don't ever remember seeing a connector on the NES other than for controllers, cartridges & video out. By the way, it was meant to run off batteries, so you could do well without the AC adaptor. On Fri, 31 Jan 2003 19:26:35 -0600, "Keys" said: > Today at the thrift I found a red case/black face/yellow button external > 3.5 > FD by Nintendo model HVC-022. Most of the writing on it is in Japanese. > It > was missing the ac adapter and cable. Copyright date on it is 1985. > Anyone > else have one of these? > -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://fastmail.fm - Sent 0.000002 seconds ago From teoz at neo.rr.com Fri Jan 31 23:05:00 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (teo zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:20 2005 Subject: Any Amiga users on this list? References: <200302010403.XAA23764@conman.org> Message-ID: <002301c2c9af$29e26d80$0200fea9@burner> I play games on mine mostly, but want to get a HD to do some programming on the system. Flipping floppies is starting to get annoying. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" To: Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 11:03 PM Subject: Re: Any Amiga users on this list? > It was thus said that the Great TeoZ once stated: > > > > Hi, > > > > Anybody here using Amiga 500's? > > I have one, but I haven't used it since I moved last year, as it's still > packed up. And while I have countless games for the system, I had more fun > programming it, since the OS is soooo sweet (what's not to like about it? > Microkernel message based OS ... very clean design). > > -spc (Sigh ... no longer have the room to set it up though ... ) From martinm at allwest.net Fri Jan 31 23:12:00 2003 From: martinm at allwest.net (Martin Marshall) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:20 2005 Subject: aviion 4000 info References: <007c01c2c999$40e4a220$5f55ddcb@earth2> Message-ID: <3E3B567B.1050801@allwest.net> pmulry wrote: > I recently aquired a Data General 4000 series server . It appears to be > complete (except for keyboard ,mouse and manuals as usual) ;however, before i > give it juice would like to confirm its condition. > Can anyone help me with manuals or point me towards downloadable manuals (any > thing that would be useful). Internet search returned very little info. http://www-csc.dg.com/csc/ Martin Marshall From red at bears.org Fri Jan 31 23:34:01 2003 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:20 2005 Subject: Any Amiga users on this list? In-Reply-To: <001e01c2c99e$28231a00$b5291941@neo.rr.com> References: <002e01c2c990$dbe53360$b5291941@neo.rr.com> <014b01c2c992$bbf41920$420add40@oemcomputer> <001e01c2c99e$28231a00$b5291941@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, TeoZ wrote: > Know of anyplace where I can get a A590 HD addon for my A500 cheap? eBay. ok r. From paulrsm at buckeye-express.com Fri Jan 31 23:35:43 2003 From: paulrsm at buckeye-express.com (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:20 2005 Subject: Laserjet IIIp in Ohio References: <20030131180001.985.98692.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3E3B5BE6.B76C4EE4@buckeye-express.com> Robert, I think I still have a LaserJet IIIp paper tray. I will check my garage this weekend. Ethan, I offered but you said you already found one. -- Paul R. Santa-Maria Monroe, Michigan USA From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 31 23:38:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:29:20 2005 Subject: Any Amiga users on this list? In-Reply-To: from "teo zenios" at Feb 01, 2003 12:02:47 AM Message-ID: <200302010534.h115Y3J13333@shell1.aracnet.com> > I play games on mine mostly, but want to get a HD to do some programming on > the system. Flipping floppies is starting to get annoying. Is there a SCSI adapter for the A500, and how hard would it be to get? The HD expansions I've always seen don't strike me as being very reliable in this day and age. If you want to do programming, I'd recommend getting a newer Amiga, or doing it under Emulation. I've had Amiga OS 3.9 running on both my A3000/25 and on my PC, I hate to admit it, but unless you're running something that requires the HW, emulating the Amiga on a modern system blows the real HW away. I couldn't believe the difference. Of course I've got to admit, that you really should have an accelerator board, if you're going to try and run AmigaOS 3.9. Now what I'd like to get a chance to play with is Amiga OS 4.0 on the new hardware! I gather the OS will finally be released in March. Zane From steinkes at t-online.de Fri Jan 24 16:58:45 2003 From: steinkes at t-online.de (sTs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:16:58 2005 Subject: toshiba 6400sxc Message-ID: <001001c2c3fc$262db5e0$abb6fea9@mob0> where can I get a new bios for it ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20030124/0f6340d5/attachment.html