From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 14 09:19:27 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] *sigh* Message-ID: <001701c1fb52$5b3bcba0$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Hold on tight - the initial conversion is not going well. I'm working on it Jay West From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 14 09:31:01 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] test Message-ID: <004101c1fb53$f90e5d10$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP> test post - someone please reply Jay West From dankolb at ox.compsoc.net Tue May 14 09:37:10 2002 From: dankolb at ox.compsoc.net (Dan Kolb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] test In-Reply-To: <004101c1fb53$f90e5d10$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <004101c1fb53$f90e5d10$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <200205141537.10134.dankolb@ox.compsoc.net> On Tuesday 14 May 2002 15:31 pm, Jay West wrote: > test post - someone please reply Here's a reply. For some reason, mailman didn't accept me as a valid subscriber, even though I got the initial message saying I had subscribed. So I just resubscribed myself. Does everything that comes up on cctech come up on this list too? Dan -- Miss, n.: A title with which we brand unmarried women to indicate that they are in the market. -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary" From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 14 09:53:16 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] test2 Message-ID: <008b01c1fb57$14bc5d20$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP> test2 please ignore From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 14 10:19:16 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] another test Message-ID: <00c301c1fb5a$b682ac10$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP> this one should include non-digest subscribers From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue May 14 10:33:16 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] another test...goodbye to ftp.digital.com? Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467918@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Yep... Someone whispered to me that ftp.digital.com seems to be evaporating? -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash > ---------- > From: Jay West > > this one should include non-digest subscribers > From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 14 10:35:59 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] another test...goodbye to ftp.digital.com? References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467918@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <011901c1fb5d$0cb76380$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP> David wrote.... > Someone whispered to me that ftp.digital.com seems to be evaporating? Grrrrr I grabbed a ton of files off there to mirror on the classiccmp.org/PDP-11 site. However, I am FAR from having time to finish getting everything I want. Can anyone make arrangements with the digital.com site owners to grab the content??? Jay West From mbg at TheWorld.com Tue May 14 11:02:32 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] another test...goodbye to ftp.digital.com? References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467918@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <200205141602.MAA2174233@shell.TheWorld.com> I just tried getting some stuff off of it, but only got about 560mb... a number of directories are already empty... Since I'm 'inside', I'll try to contact them and see if a tar file could be put together, or find out if they have transitioned it to somewhere else... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue May 14 11:27:56 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] another test...goodbye to ftp.digital.com? Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467921@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Jay West > > David wrote.... > > Someone whispered to me that ftp.digital.com seems to be evaporating? > > Grrrrr I grabbed a ton of files off there to mirror on the > classiccmp.org/PDP-11 site. However, I am FAR from having time to finish > getting everything I want. Can anyone make arrangements with the > digital.com > site owners to grab the content??? > > Jay West > Remember folks, this is just a RUMOR, since there has been no confirmation of this by anyone from inside of HPaq... Three cheers, a salute to the once great Digital Equipment Corporation... That all being said, I' still going to try and grab as much as I can... Also, don't forget ftp.europe.digital.com & http://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/ -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From vance.facundo at unisys.com Tue May 14 11:19:06 2002 From: vance.facundo at unisys.com (Facundo, Vance) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: IBM's PGA Adapter Message-ID: IBM's PGA Adapter - Replying to message forum. I have one of these silicon sandwichs. You still looking for one? Vance -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020514/cf03c1ab/attachment.html From csmith at amdocs.com Tue May 14 11:23:32 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Car -- not exactly on topic Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E017845E5@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Hi guys, I wanted to write an email to the classiccmp list a few days ago asking for some advice on this, but I didn't think it would be very healthy for me given all of the complaining, and just plain nastiness people were showing towards anything even remotely not on topic. As it is, I hope that since this is going to the new list, I won't get too much animosity for asking. Please note that it's my respect for the opinions of the group as a whole that actually prompts me to ask here. So here it is: I know that several of us here have somewhat strange cars, and am looking for some parts, and just general advice to go with a 1989 Jaguar XJ6 Vanden Plas. Arguably on topic because it's got very prominent computers, which are more than 10 years old ;) -- but I don't really see many problems with the computer part. Rather, I'm looking for trim, a glove box latch, door handles, that kind of thing. If anyone knows where to get that kind of part, or what else I should check for the sake of the car's health, please email me. I could also use advice on removing small rust spots, cleaning the carpeting, protecting the leather, and anything else that goes with having a car. This will be my first car in quite some time. Thanks, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' -------------- next part -------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this message is proprietary of Amdocs, protected from disclosure, and may be privileged. The information is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s) of the message. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, use, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From allain at panix.com Tue May 14 11:43:18 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Car -- not exactly on topic References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E017845E5@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: <003901c1fb66$745d6bc0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Just say: [OT] thanks, John A. From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Tue May 14 11:58:15 2002 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Word for AT&T 6300 question In-Reply-To: <001501c1fb4b$8694c420$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <3CDFCE2B.E9A34EDB@jetnet.ab.ca> <02May13.113751edt.119043@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> <3CE0626E.223F42B5@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020514125740.009ef350@pop-server> I just received a copy of MS Word for AT&T 6300 computer. It says copywrite 1983, 1984. Does anybody have any idea what version of Word it is? It does not say on the outside. It's shinkwrapped and I don't want to open it to see what it says inside. Thanx in advance for any information. From RCini at congressfinancial.com Tue May 14 12:08:03 2002 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] Test post - ignore Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5013718CB@MAIL10> Test post ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From foo at siconic.com Tue May 14 12:28:36 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Car -- not exactly on topic In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E017845E5@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 May 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > Arguably on topic because it's got very prominent computers, You know, I was going to give the cctalk list a chance to see if the recent imbroglio would have taught people to stay on topic, but this asinine attempt at relating a car question to classic computers has done it for me. Thanks, Chris. cctech, here I come. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue May 14 12:29:14 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Car -- not exactly on topic In-Reply-To: <003901c1fb66$745d6bc0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 May 2002, John Allain wrote: > Just say: [OT] Or as Jay said, if you feel the need to put "[OT]" in your heading, don't post the message at all. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 14 12:43:54 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: Arg References: <6EB5E4520EB686418369ED81C032F9A73352@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <032501c1fb6e$ead868b0$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP> it appears that your address below is not subscribed....at least it's not in the subscription list, and I set the software to only allow posts from subscribers. Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Quebbeman" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 12:38 PM Subject: Arg > Jay- > > (or John or whoever)- > > Why was my test post to cctalk rejected? If you're not sure, > send me the headers or whatever so I can figure it out... > > -dq > > From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue May 14 12:57:40 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: Arg Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467926@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Jay --- So what about non-subscribers? Will they be able to post to the original "classiccmp@classiccmp.org" address? And let's see how long it takes for this message to come back around to me... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash > ---------- > From: Jay West > > it appears that your address below is not subscribed....at least it's not > in > the subscription list, and I set the software to only allow posts from > subscribers. > > Jay West > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Douglas Quebbeman" > > > > Jay- > > > > (or John or whoever)- > > > > Why was my test post to cctalk rejected? If you're not sure, > > send me the headers or whatever so I can figure it out... > From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Tue May 14 12:55:05 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Car -- not exactly on topic References: Message-ID: <3CE14F79.60902@dragonsweb.org> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 14 May 2002, John Allain wrote: > > >>Just say: [OT] > > > Or as Jay said, if you feel the need to put "[OT]" in your heading, don't > post the message at all. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > _______________________________________________ > cctalk mailing list > cctalk@classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > > I don't feel that a brief, or even extended, excursion into automotive computer systems or any other embedded application is off-topic, as long as it meets the 10-year rule, but restoring Jags doesn't interest me. Well, a '64 XKE roadster, maybe, but that doesn't have any computers, and XJ's are tanks. No offense, Chris. jbdigriz From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 14 12:54:39 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: Arg References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467926@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <037f01c1fb70$6c350ed0$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP> ok here's the deal..... To post to the list (cctalk or classiccmp) you have to be subscribed to the list using the email address that you post from! If you post from a different address, the list server will forward your email to me for approval. This is a direct attempt to keep the spam off the list. I would REALLY rather not have to approve a continuous stream of posts from people who just don't want to sub. I think there might be a way around this that will work for some people, email me off list if you need that. Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Woyciesjes" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 12:57 PM Subject: RE: [CCTALK] Re: Arg > Jay --- > So what about non-subscribers? Will they be able to post to the > original "classiccmp@classiccmp.org" address? > > And let's see how long it takes for this message to come back around > to me... > > -- > --- David A Woyciesjes > --- C & IS Support Specialist > --- Yale University Press > --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu > --- (203) 432-0953 > --- ICQ # - 905818 > Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 > Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash > > > ---------- > > From: Jay West > > > > it appears that your address below is not subscribed....at least it's not > > in > > the subscription list, and I set the software to only allow posts from > > subscribers. > > > > Jay West > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Douglas Quebbeman" > > > > > > > Jay- > > > > > > (or John or whoever)- > > > > > > Why was my test post to cctalk rejected? If you're not sure, > > > send me the headers or whatever so I can figure it out... > > > _______________________________________________ > cctalk mailing list > cctalk@classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > > From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue May 14 13:11:23 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: Arg Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467928@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: David Woyciesjes > > Jay --- > <<>>> > And let's see how long it takes for this message to come back around > to me... > > -- > Jay --- So far, it's looking like it was the list server that was causing (in some weird manner) my messages to be delayed quite a while. It only take about 5 minutes now, instead of the 30 minutes or so it did before... Cool. And Jay, thanks, and alot of applause to you, for your smooth list transition. Or, at least it appeared smooth to me. :) Thanks again for all your efforts. -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From csmith at amdocs.com Tue May 14 13:13:38 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Car -- not exactly on topic Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E017845E9@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: James B. DiGriz [mailto:jbdigriz@dragonsweb.org] I don't feel that a brief, or even extended, excursion into automotive computer systems or any other embedded application is off-topic, as long as it meets the 10-year rule, but restoring Jags doesn't interest me. Well, a '64 XKE roadster, maybe, but that doesn't have any computers, and XJ's are tanks. No offense, Chris. None taken. That said, does anyone know about the systems in these? It looks interesting from the seat, and is even equipped with a dot matrix display, but I have no idea what's behind it. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' -------------- next part -------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this message is proprietary of Amdocs, protected from disclosure, and may be privileged. The information is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s) of the message. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, use, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue May 14 13:46:13 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] HD repair techniques? Message-ID: Well, today I lost the first drive in years due to a head crash. The data it contained wasn't extremely important, since I can reconstruct it given time, but sadly, I didn't have a listing of the drive's contents. After getting the air reasonable clean in a makeshift clean-room, I took a look at the platters, and found the topmost surface of the upper platter is the one that took damage. (If I decide to do any serious work on the drive, I'll have to build a clean-box...) I'd like to get the drive to a state where I can at least get a directory listing, but the data it contained isn't worth what it would cost to send it off for 'professional' recovery, especially since those shops tend to charge a small fortune for Linux e2fs formatted drives. I have another drive that is identical to the one that failed, so I have donor parts to repair it with. The second drive has a bad head, but it affects one of the lower platters. I've never had to replace a head before, so I'm looking for advice, or even a step by step guide to replacing it. The drives are both a Conner CFS1275A, 1.2GB, 3 platters, 6 surfaces. I'm starting to suspect the top surface of the upper platter is the servo surface, due to the behavior of the drive when it failed. Can anyone confirm if this is the case, or if these type of drive even use a servo surface? The 1275A doesn't quite yet meet the 10 year rule, but with all the experts here, I figure someone is bound to know more about these drives then I currently do. -Toth From csmith at amdocs.com Tue May 14 13:48:38 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] HD repair techniques? Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E017845EA@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net] > The drives are both a Conner CFS1275A, 1.2GB, 3 platters, 6 > surfaces. I'm > starting to suspect the top surface of the upper platter is the servo > surface, due to the behavior of the drive when it failed. Can anyone > confirm if this is the case, or if these type of drive even > use a servo I don't know much about the drive, but I think I may have another spare floating around (dead, of course, but it's been years, and I can't tell you the mode of failure). Let me know if you need more parts, and I'll check. > surface? The 1275A doesn't quite yet meet the 10 year rule, > but with all > the experts here, I figure someone is bound to know more about these > drives then I currently do. I think I took the brunt of the assault with my car post, don't worry ;) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' -------------- next part -------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this message is proprietary of Amdocs, protected from disclosure, and may be privileged. The information is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s) of the message. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, use, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue May 14 14:19:40 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: Arg References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467928@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <3CE1634C.727ABCEC@jetnet.ab.ca> David Woyciesjes wrote: > Jay --- > So far, it's looking like it was the list server that was causing > (in some weird manner) my messages to be delayed quite a while. > It only take about 5 minutes now, instead of the 30 minutes or so it > did before... Cool. > well lets see -- (checks sundial ) posting at 1:20pm local time. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From pat at purdueriots.com Tue May 14 14:47:59 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] HP Apollo 715/50 Message-ID: I just got one of these with no disks, no kb, and no monitor. It's a 'desktop' model not one of the jumbo 'server' models. Fortuantely, it came with 64M of ram. Does anyone have 1) an idea of how to switch it to use a serial console without any keyboard (I don't have any HIL stuff), or 2) an HIL keyboard they want to get rid of? Thanks. -- Pat From mrbill at mrbill.net Tue May 14 15:51:26 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: Arg In-Reply-To: <037f01c1fb70$6c350ed0$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467926@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> <037f01c1fb70$6c350ed0$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <20020514205126.GK14520@mrbill.net> On Tue, May 14, 2002 at 12:54:39PM -0500, Jay West wrote: > ok here's the deal..... > To post to the list (cctalk or classiccmp) you have to be subscribed to the > list using the email address that you post from! > If you post from a different address, the list server will forward your > email to me for approval. This is a direct attempt to keep the spam off the > list. I would REALLY rather not have to approve a continuous stream of posts > from people who just don't want to sub. And if you have more than one address you post from, you can subscribe *both* addresses, and set one of them (via the web interface) to "no delivery". This way it accepts mail from both, but you only get one "copy" of the list. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From elmo at mminternet.com Tue May 14 15:52:10 2002 From: elmo at mminternet.com (elmo@mminternet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Alphaserver for trade Message-ID: <20020514204922.5748F66A22@mail.mminternet.com> Greetings. Today I rescued what appears to be an Alphaserver 4100 with 4 processors. It has also a CD, 10/100 ethernet card, and floppy. It is in an eagle-sized rack mount chassis. I will trade for Pentium II+ gear, large HD's, high resolution monitors, or laptop. Located in Santa Monica. You pickup. Weighs 80 pounds. Those interested, please contact me directly. From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue May 14 16:08:43 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Alphaserver for trade Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146793A@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: elmo@mminternet.com > > Greetings. > > Today I rescued what appears to be an Alphaserver 4100 with 4 processors. > It has also a CD, 10/100 ethernet card, and floppy. > > It is in an eagle-sized rack mount chassis. > > I will trade for Pentium II+ gear, large HD's, high resolution monitors, > or > laptop. > > Located in Santa Monica. You pickup. Weighs 80 pounds. > > Those interested, please contact me directly. > Aww, man! how come the good stuff is always on the other side of the country? -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From mythtech at mac.com Tue May 14 16:35:44 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Alphaserver for trade Message-ID: > Aww, man! how come the good stuff is always on the other side of the >country? Or Texas... what is it with Texas... why do you have all the old computers? Is NJ using other states for landfill again?? -chris From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue May 14 16:42:43 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Alphaserver for trade In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 14 May 2002, Chris wrote: > > Aww, man! how come the good stuff is always on the other side of the > >country? > > Or Texas... what is it with Texas... why do you have all the old > computers? Is NJ using other states for landfill again?? Maybe, but I know for sure we get 400 tons ** a day ** of raw sewage from NYC. We call it "The Poo-Poo Choo-Choo" Doc From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue May 14 16:44:17 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Alphaserver for trade References: Message-ID: <3CE18531.A91C10F@jetnet.ab.ca> Chris wrote: > > > Aww, man! how come the good stuff is always on the other side of the > >country? > > Or Texas... what is it with Texas... why do you have all the old > computers? Is NJ using other states for landfill again?? Texas: a BIG LAND full of BIG things like hats,ranches,and apparently computers.:) -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From pietstan at rogers.com Tue May 14 16:51:11 2002 From: pietstan at rogers.com (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: Alpha 3000/800 References: Message-ID: <3CE186CF.4DD467F9@rogers.com> Tothwolf wrote: > > On Tue, 14 May 2002, Stan Pietkiewicz wrote: > > > 1.5.1 install floppy, and got to the sysinst menu, when I smelled the > > ominous presence of escaping magic blue smoke (even though I didn't see > > any!).. I powered everything off, let it sit for a few minutes while I > > tried to find the source of the non-smoke. > > When I powered the 3000 back up, it hung with FD displayed on the LED > > display, with no output to the VT320... > > > > Any ideas as to what might be cooked?? > > My first guess would be that something failed in the power supply, maybe > due to bad caps? > > -Toth That was my first thought as well... I opened up the supply and found no visible evidence of failure anywhere. Now if I knew which line was supposed to be which output, I could check the voltage outputs with the DVM.... Stan From bernd at kopriva.de Tue May 14 15:44:55 2002 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] RE: Request for Help with the Definicon DSI-32 (NS32032 PC Coprocessor board) Message-ID: <177j8Y-1m0704C@fmrl01.sul.t-online.com> Hi Kelly, i'm sorry to ask, but i'm really interested in those items ... ... when will you have the loader disk and the documentation avaliable ? I've tries to work with the utility disk, but i was not successful, maybe i've to set some jumpers (or the card is really dead :-() Thanks Bernd On Mon, 29 Apr 2002 23:53:53 -0500, Kelly Fergason wrote: > >Its taken me a while, but... > >at www.fergason.net/definicon >are the fortran and utility disks >for the 68020 Definicon board. > >dcp386 was the program I used to create >the images originally (grabbed off simtel). > >I am still working on the loader disk, >and will work on documentation as soon as >I can. > >Please be patient, its a DSL line. > >Kelly > > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org >[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bernd Kopriva >Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 1:59 PM >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >Cc: morgarws@mh.us.sbphrd.com >Subject: Re: Request for Help with the Definicon DSI-32 (NS32032 PC >Coprocessor board) > > >Hi Bill, >i saw, that you were bidding for such a board on eBay yesterday (btw. i >tried to get that board >as well, but i was also unsuccessful :-( ) ... > >Do you already have such a board, but without documentation ? > >I grabbed some months ago a Definicion 68020 board, but without any software >and documentation, >i had no luck until now ... > >If you get the software/doucmentation you are asking for, is there a chance, >that you will send me a >copy ? (I still hope to get a 32032 board sometimes/somewhere). > >On Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:31:49 -0400, morgarws@mh.us.sbphrd.com wrote: > >>I'm looking for any documentation and software for the Definicon DSI-32 >>(NS32032 PC/XT coprocessor board). ... anything would be useful! >> >>Thanks in Advance, >> >>Bill Morgart >>morgarws@Molbio.sbphrd.com >> >> >Thanks Bernd > >Bernd Kopriva Phone: ++49-7195-179452 >Weilerstr. 24 E-Mail: bernd@kopriva.de >D-71397 Leutenbach >Germany > > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue May 14 17:49:59 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Test post and DEC Unix question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020514224959.81476.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> I'm trying to break into (my own) DEC Alpha running Digital Unix V3.2. I know how to bust into a VMS machine if you are at the console, but what I guess I lack is how to boot an Alpha processor into single user mode. What I'm doing to bring up the OS is... >>> b dkc0 This does *not* work... >>> b -s dkc0 Suggestions? Pointers? An FM to RT? Thanks, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From dougq at iglou.com Tue May 14 17:58:29 2002 From: dougq at iglou.com (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Test Post #2 Message-ID: <000e01c1fb9a$dd7767d0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue May 14 18:01:14 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Test post and DEC Unix question In-Reply-To: <20020514224959.81476.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 May 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > I'm trying to break into (my own) DEC Alpha running Digital Unix V3.2. I > know how to bust into a VMS machine if you are at the console, but what > I guess I lack is how to boot an Alpha processor into single user mode. > > What I'm doing to bring up the OS is... > > >>> b dkc0 try >>> b dkc0 -flags 1 Doc From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue May 14 18:33:03 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Test Post #3.14159 Message-ID: <200205142333.QAA09924@stockholm.ptloma.edu> -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I can't walk a mile in their shoes. They smell funny. ---------------------- From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue May 14 18:26:13 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Alphaserver for trade In-Reply-To: from "Doc" at May 14, 2002 04:42:43 PM Message-ID: <200205142326.g4ENQEE29792@shell1.aracnet.com> > Maybe, but I know for sure we get 400 tons ** a day ** of raw sewage > from NYC. > We call it "The Poo-Poo Choo-Choo" Are you saying that they send it via Train? Zane From vance at ikickass.org Tue May 14 18:35:52 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Alphaserver for trade In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 14 May 2002, Doc wrote: > > > Aww, man! how come the good stuff is always on the other side of the > > >country? > > > > Or Texas... what is it with Texas... why do you have all the old > > computers? Is NJ using other states for landfill again?? > > Maybe, but I know for sure we get 400 tons ** a day ** of raw sewage > from NYC. > We call it "The Poo-Poo Choo-Choo" You chew NY's poo-poo? Peace... Sridhar -- "How do you fight such a savage?" "With heart, faith, and steel. There can be only one." -MacLeod and Ramirez, "Highlander" From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue May 14 18:38:32 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Alphaserver for trade In-Reply-To: <200205142326.g4ENQEE29792@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 May 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > Maybe, but I know for sure we get 400 tons ** a day ** of raw sewage > > from NYC. > > We call it "The Poo-Poo Choo-Choo" > > Are you saying that they send it via Train? I don't actually know how it gets here. I think by RR tanker cars, though. And I meant to say "sludge", not "sewage" - meaning most of the water & anything useful is removed prior to shipping. Doc From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 14 18:26:40 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] HD repair techniques? In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at May 14, 2 01:46:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1700 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020515/c99f9421/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 14 18:02:13 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: Anything special about converting VAX 11/780 to single phase? Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2560 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020515/73accd65/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 14 19:15:41 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: Alpha 3000/800 In-Reply-To: <3CE186CF.4DD467F9@rogers.com> from "Stan Pietkiewicz" at May 14, 2 05:51:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 582 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020515/56711d67/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 14 18:17:36 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: Anything special about converting VAX 11/780 to single phase? Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1173 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020515/57352849/attachment.ksh From dougq at iglou.com Tue May 14 20:55:50 2002 From: dougq at iglou.com (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [OT] Emabrgoed Domains Message-ID: <000501c1fbb3$a7cea4e0$75eeffcc@Shadow> Sorry about this, but the volume of spam has gotten intolerable, and the domains that are hosting it have been embargoed; anything from the domains yahoo.com hotmail.com msn.com aol.com will be deleted with extreme prejudice. If you happen to be one of those very few decent people who are using one of these ISPs (yes I'm pissed), and you want to contact me, you'll have to punch through the filter. To do that, take the two-word phrase I used in the sentence above, misspell the second word using the commonly-used shorter mispelling, concatenate it with the violence word that precedes it, capitalize, and enclose the result in square brackets. Someday, somebody will make procmail easy to use, and this won't be necessary. Regards, -doug q From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Tue May 14 21:22:21 2002 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Alphaserver for trade In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146793A@yalepress3.unipre ss.yale.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020514222141.00a32930@sokieserv.dhs.org> Cuz we are good and good will always lose to evil for good is dumb, right Dave? -John At 05:08 PM 5/14/02, you wrote: > > From: elmo@mminternet.com > > > > Greetings. > > > > Today I rescued what appears to be an Alphaserver 4100 with 4 processors. > > It has also a CD, 10/100 ethernet card, and floppy. > > > > It is in an eagle-sized rack mount chassis. > > > > I will trade for Pentium II+ gear, large HD's, high resolution monitors, > > or > > laptop. > > > > Located in Santa Monica. You pickup. Weighs 80 pounds. > > > > Those interested, please contact me directly. > > > Aww, man! how come the good stuff is always on the other side of the >country? > >-- >--- David A Woyciesjes >--- C & IS Support Specialist >--- Yale University Press >--- (203) 432-0953 >--- ICQ # - 905818 >Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 >Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash >_______________________________________________ >cctalk mailing list >cctalk@classiccmp.org >http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From allain at panix.com Tue May 14 21:29:39 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [OT] WinNT *free* References: <000501c1fbb3$a7cea4e0$75eeffcc@Shadow> Message-ID: <000601c1fbb8$5d6774e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> I have some MS Windows NT 4.0 shrinkwrap bundles (1996) free for postage to the list. Contents: CD, Boot floppies, small manual, certificate. I am not trying to pollute anybody's computers with bugs. These were cast off by Priceline when they had a reduction a few years ago and I was able to rescue from dumpster. Requests, comments & complaints off list please. John A. From jrasite at eoni.com Tue May 14 22:12:00 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Car -- not exactly on topic References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E017845E5@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: <3CE1D1FD.18A5280@eoni.com> Instead of bitching, I'll offer a suggestion or two and we can move on... Victoria British and Hemmings Motor News Jim From kentborg at borg.org Tue May 14 23:05:46 2002 From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [OT] Emabrgoed Domains In-Reply-To: <000501c1fbb3$a7cea4e0$75eeffcc@Shadow>; from dougq@iglou.com on Tue, May 14, 2002 at 09:55:50PM -0400 References: <000501c1fbb3$a7cea4e0$75eeffcc@Shadow> Message-ID: <20020515000546.B22042@borg.org> On Tue, May 14, 2002 at 09:55:50PM -0400, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > Sorry about this, but the volume of spam has gotten > intolerable, and the domains that are hosting it have > been embargoed; anything from the domains > > yahoo.com > hotmail.com > msn.com > aol.com > > will be deleted with extreme prejudice. I get a lot of spam, and I do not get much spam from those domains. Like nearly zero. HOWEVER, I get plenty of spam that is forged and claims to come from those domains. Learn to read the full headers and track down the originating site and you will find out it comes from Korea, China, Russia, Canada, etc. (Kinda like reading te postmark on a letter and not trust the return address.) -kb From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Tue May 14 23:30:20 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Seeking TS1500 parts Message-ID: <20020515043156.EQSH14443.imf04bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> I needed to test the new listserv, anyway . . . I've got a very healthy Timex Sinclair 1500 with rotten keyboard ribbons. Does any one have a dead TS1500 for sale or trade, or the top half of the enclosure, with working keyboard and intact ribbons? Please reply off-list. Glen 0/0 From pat at purdueriots.com Tue May 14 23:45:37 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Altos 580 disks Message-ID: I have a set of images of all of my Altos 580 'software' and boot/OS disks up on my web site http://purdueriots.com/altos580/ . Be gentile, it's just a DSL line. -- Pat From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Wed May 15 03:54:06 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Alphaserver for trade In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146793A@yalepress3.unipre ss.yale.edu> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020515185317.0205b2d8@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 05:08 PM 14/05/2002 -0400, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > From: elmo@mminternet.com > > > > Greetings. > > > > Today I rescued what appears to be an Alphaserver 4100 with 4 processors. > > It has also a CD, 10/100 ethernet card, and floppy. > > > > It is in an eagle-sized rack mount chassis. > > > > I will trade for Pentium II+ gear, large HD's, high resolution monitors, > > or > > laptop. > > > > Located in Santa Monica. You pickup. Weighs 80 pounds. > > > > Those interested, please contact me directly. > > > Aww, man! how come the good stuff is always on the other side of the >country? Other side of the country - this is the other side of the world to me! This also acts as my test post to the new list. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 15 10:21:55 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk test Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020515102155.13372ff8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> test cctalk From ghldbrd at ccp.com Wed May 15 08:26:35 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: Score! Two prototypes!! References: <3CDFCE2B.E9A34EDB@jetnet.ab.ca> <02May13.113751edt.119043@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> <3CE0626E.223F42B5@adelphia.net> <001501c1fb4b$8694c420$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3CE2620B.6308445F@ccp.com> Richard Erlacher wrote: > > I ran onto a bunch of Vic20-related stuff yesterday ... is that of interest to > anyone? It wasn't sold because it hadn't been priced yet, but there was a > modem, the Vic20, a PSU, and a few things I couldn't see ... there were also a > couple of 1541's and a C64. I doubt any of that stuff wil be tagged at over > $6. > > Dick I'm interested in game cartridges mostly, but get me a list and I'll let you know. Is the VIC early style (internal 5v regulator) or late style (C=64 brick p/s and DIN power plug)?? Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From RMeenaks at OLF.COM Wed May 15 09:38:41 2002 From: RMeenaks at OLF.COM (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] test posting.... Message-ID: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B558478627454@exchange.olf.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020515/2d145f55/attachment.html From bpope at wordstock.com Wed May 15 09:40:39 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] test posting.... In-Reply-To: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B558478627454@exchange.olf.com> from "Ram Meenakshisundaram" at May 15, 02 10:38:41 am Message-ID: <200205151440.KAA27609@wordstock.com> And thusly Ram Meenakshisundaram spake: > > > > > charset=3Diso-8859-1"> > 5.5.2653.12"> > test posting.... > > > >

Ram >

> >

=A9 2002 OpenLink Financial >

> Are attachments being removed from messages? Is it possible to remove the HTML as well? I am using elm, which doesn't understand HTML. Cheers, Bryan From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed May 15 09:52:48 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] FW: Off-Topic: Goodbye to ftp.digital.com? Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467941@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Paul Vixie > Subject: Re: Off-Topic: Goodbye to ftp.digital.com? > > i have just communicated with the operators of gatekeeper.dec.com (with > whom ftp.isc.org shares a cage at PAIX) and was told two things. > > 1. HP plans to fully support gatekeeper (now that the merger is done), > and has approved a 1-Terabyte expansion to its disk storage subsystem; > > 2. ftp.digital.com is no longer the same computer as gatekeeper.dec.com, > it's a machine on the east coast somewhere. > > i've asked whether there's any problems looming for ftp.digital.com, and > i'll report back here if i hear anything. but gatekeeper.dec.com (which > i had a hand in creating back during my 1998-1993 stint at dec.com) is > absolutely safe from harm. > > > -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed May 15 09:57:08 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] FullPageDisplay (and landfill)[was RE: Alphaserver for trade] Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467942@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> BTW, does anybody know if Radius sold their Mac Full Page Display under any other names? I think I have one, but I don't recall the brand at the moment.. > From: Chris > > > Aww, man! how come the good stuff is always on the other side of the > >country? > > Or Texas... what is it with Texas... why do you have all the old > computers? Is NJ using other states for landfill again?? > > -chris > Chris, don't you know that NJ (the Landfill state) isn't supposed to get the good trash, just the smelly stuff... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From pat at purdueriots.com Wed May 15 09:45:10 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Commodore 1541 Drive Message-ID: I'm trying to get one, and wondering what success people have had with connecting them to a PC using "X-Cables" and "Star commander" to transfer data ( http://sta.c64.org/sc.html ). Also, is there any chance of making a 1541 read an Apple ][ disk? I know they both use GCR encodings for their disks, and it'd be really useful if I could read disks on my PC. Also, does anyone know anywhere I could get a Compaticard (and any necessary drivers to make it useful)? I've looked on ebay a few times now and still haven't seen one... -- Pat From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed May 15 09:59:15 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [OT] Emabrgoed Domains Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467943@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Douglas H. Quebbeman > > ....If you happen to be one of those very few decent people who > are using one of these ISPs (yes I'm pissed), and you want > to contact me, you'll have to punch through the filter. > > To do that, take the two-word phrase I used in the sentence > above, misspell the second word using the commonly-used shorter > mispelling, concatenate it with the violence word that precedes > it, capitalize, and enclose the result in square brackets. > Geez, you must be pissed! That's a hell of some hoops to jump through! -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From bpope at wordstock.com Wed May 15 09:54:19 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Commodore 1541 Drive In-Reply-To: from "Pat Finnegan" at May 15, 02 09:45:10 am Message-ID: <200205151454.KAA00214@wordstock.com> And thusly Pat Finnegan spake: > > I'm trying to get one, and wondering what success people have had with > connecting them to a PC using "X-Cables" and "Star commander" to transfer > data ( http://sta.c64.org/sc.html ). Also, is there any chance of making > I have had no problem - I even built my own XE1541 cable. I use the cable with a 128 and 64HDD and with a 1571 and Star Commander. Cheers, Bryan From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Wed May 15 09:54:00 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Commodore 1541 Drive Message-ID: > Also, is there any chance of making a 1541 read an Apple ][ disk? I know they both use GCR encodings for their disks, and it'd be really useful if I could read disks on my PC. I don't believe there is a way to make a 1541 read Apple ][ disks. I don't recall any programs to do this from the "old days" anyway, and if there had been a program, I'm sure I would have heard about it as I knew lots of people who had both machines, and it would have been somewhat desirable to move data between the two. - Bob From aek at spies.com Wed May 15 10:06:07 2002 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] SPD/DOS ? Message-ID: <200205151506.IAA10046@spies.com> I picked up a box of 8" hard sectored floppies on my trip, and was trying to identify the system they came from. There is a system floppy that has the following paper directory included. Does anyone know what system this is for? DIRECTORY LISTING DSN=DISKJW S T ..NAME.. FT IF NT ...............L A B E L ---------------- 0 EDIT 03 05 02 SPD/DOS EDIT V3.17 74-10-14-2030 0 DCOPY 05 05 01 SPD/DOS DCOPY V3.09 74-10-14-1210 0 ERASE 06 05 01 SPD/DOS ERASE V3.02 74-10-10-0845 0 PACK 07 05 01 SPD/DOS PACK V3.05 74-10-08-0250 ? 0 FORMAT 08 05 02 SPD/DOS FORMAT V3.10 74-10-08-0140 0 ZAP 10 05 02 SPD/DOS ZAP V2.12 74-10-15-0110 From jplist at globe.net.nz Wed May 15 10:42:59 2002 From: jplist at globe.net.nz (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Commodore 1541 Drive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I built one of the standard X1541 cables, very easy even for a soldering screw-up like myself. I was unable to make Star Commander do its thing, it would hang everytime I tried to write a disk image, I ended up using Trans64 which works beautifully. JP On Wed, 15 May 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > I'm trying to get one, and wondering what success people have had with > connecting them to a PC using "X-Cables" and "Star commander" to transfer > data ( http://sta.c64.org/sc.html ). Also, is there any chance of making > a 1541 read an Apple ][ disk? I know they both use GCR encodings for > their disks, and it'd be really useful if I could read disks on my PC. From davebarnes at adelphia.net Wed May 15 11:50:04 2002 From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] another test...goodbye to ftp.digital.com? References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467918@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <3CE291BC.3C0E5963@adelphia.net> yes I heard that... I have been pulling off all that I can... David Woyciesjes wrote: > Yep... > > Someone whispered to me that ftp.digital.com seems to be evaporating? > > -- > --- David A Woyciesjes > --- C & IS Support Specialist > --- Yale University Press > --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu > --- (203) 432-0953 > --- ICQ # - 905818 > Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 > Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash > > > ---------- > > From: Jay West > > > > this one should include non-digest subscribers > > > _______________________________________________ > cctalk mailing list > cctalk@classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed May 15 10:50:12 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] transistor counts again Message-ID: <3CE283B4.2F2F4A12@jetnet.ab.ca> Looking for information on 16x4 ram (74F219), I came across the the discussion of how many transistors are in a 6502. Did anybody ever get a answer to that? A simple 16 bit cpu like the the toy/2 runs at about 3300 transitors. A a simple stack machine about 3500???. Does anybody have the transistor count for the PDP-8 chip 6100? or the forgotton PACE-16 cpu by national. The SCAMP and PACE chips don't seem to have a web page up anywhere on the web! -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Wed May 15 11:21:18 2002 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Commodore 1541 Drive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020515121940.009f4c20@pop-server> At 09:45 AM 5/15/02 -0500, you wrote: >I'm trying to get one I have four of them on consignment on my web site. Let me know if interested and I will let you know off list what I need to get for one or more. Also they are heavy to ship (about $9 each) Gene http://www.voicenet.com/~generic From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed May 15 11:28:49 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Test post and DEC Unix question In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020514191912.00a34ec0@mail.itm-inst.com> Message-ID: <20020515162849.20475.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Rick Murphy wrote: > At 03:49 PM 5/14/02 -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > >I'm trying to break into (my own) DEC Alpha running Digital Unix V3.2... > Use: > >>> b -flags 0,1 dkc0 Why the 0? I did this (Thanks, Doc!) >>> b dkc0 -flags 1 ... and I got in just fine. > Once you're in single-user mode, "mount -r /" to remount the root... Right. I know what to do once I'm in. The only thing that threw me about Digital Unix vs other stuff I've used is that if you _don't_ use vipw to edit the passwd file, you have to manually run mkpasswd to update the hashed password file (I'm used to a shadow file, or, for older stuff, _just_ the /etc/passwd file and nothing else). > ...mount -a to get everything mounted... In my experience, if you intend to go from single-user mode to multi-user (i.e., you don't reboot from single-user), it's safest to not leave anything mounted that isn't mounted when you got your prompt. I'm not saying this is the case for Digital Unix, but for older BSDish stuff I used in the past, if you, say, mounted /usr/home while in single user mode, then ^D to exit your shell and allow the system to start up, but haven't unmounted /usr/home first, the startup scripts complain about a busy mount point or some other complaint. I always leave the system the way I found it, which is / mounted read-only, everything else unmounted. What you suggest might work these days, but I cut my teeth on 4.0BSD and Ultrix 1.1. This is just my first experience with Digital Unix on an Alpha. Still curious about the "0" in your sample line, though. Thanks for the tip, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From edick at idcomm.com Wed May 15 11:33:11 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] transistor counts again References: <3CE283B4.2F2F4A12@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <004101c1fc2e$344951c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I don't know what info you need, but the 74F219 is a chip I used in a 6502 emulation I built back in '80-something, and it's precisely a 74F189 with true rather than inverting outputs. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Franchuk" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 9:50 AM Subject: [CCTALK] transistor counts again > Looking for information on 16x4 ram (74F219), I came across the the > discussion of how many transistors are in a 6502. Did anybody ever > get a answer to that? A simple 16 bit cpu like the the toy/2 runs > at about 3300 transitors. A a simple stack machine about 3500???. > Does anybody have the transistor count for the PDP-8 chip 6100? > or the forgotton PACE-16 cpu by national. The SCAMP and PACE chips > don't seem to have a web page up anywhere on the web! > -- > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html > _______________________________________________ > cctalk mailing list > cctalk@classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed May 15 11:35:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] transistor counts again In-Reply-To: <3CE283B4.2F2F4A12@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20020515163501.78299.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ben Franchuk wrote: > ...I came across the the discussion of how many transistors are in a > 6502. Did anybody ever get a answer to that? Dunno. > A simple 16 bit cpu like the the toy/2 runs > at about 3300 transitors. A a simple stack machine about 3500???. The MC68000 is reputed to have approximately 68000 transistors, but I've also heard that that number is weapons-grade bolognium. > Does anybody have the transistor count for the PDP-8 chip 6100? No, but John B posted on his former PDP-8 web site that there are just under 1,000 transistors in a PDP-8/S (not a microprocessor, but it is easy to count them). I think it was 998 or 999. > or the forgotton PACE-16 cpu by national. The SCAMP and PACE chips > don't seem to have a web page up anywhere on the web! I think I've heard of the SCAMP, but I have never seen one. Never heard of the PACE-16. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed May 15 11:46:58 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Commodore 1541 Drive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020515164658.21553.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Pat Finnegan wrote: > I'm trying to get one, and wondering what success people have had with > connecting them to a PC using "X-Cables" and "Star commander" to transfer > data ( http://sta.c64.org/sc.html ). I have a homemade cable that is the model *before* the X cables were devised. I keep a 486 around for reading 1541 disks. > Also, is there any chance of making > a 1541 read an Apple ][ disk? I know they both use GCR encodings for > their disks, and it'd be really useful if I could read disks on my PC. Not as far as I know. I think the lowest bit density on the 1541 is identical to what the Apple ][ uses over the entire surface (it's 17 sectors of 256 bytes on the 1541, vs 16 on the Apple ][, but due to header/trailer differences), but I do not recall a single program or trick to read an Apple disk in a 1541. I was a beta tester for the Spartan Mimic, the expensive and unpopular Apple "emulator" for the C-64 (co-processor is more like it). One of the boards that came in the box was a card that sat inside the 1541, between the drive mech and the 1541 mainboard. It had lots of relays and stole the drive mech out from under the 1541 board. That was the only Commodore drive I ever saw read an Apple ][ disk, and it still needed an Apple controller to do it (there was a 20-pin connector on the Spartan drive board). Among other differences (smart vs dumb peripherals), the 1541 depends on a certain header design - there's an 8-input NAND hooked to a shift register on the input side, and the Set Overflow pin of the 6502 on the other. When a bunch of 1s go streaming past the head, this logic kicks the processor out of a tight loop where it branches to itself while the overflow bit is clear. This, coupled with precise timing, lets the 6502 in the drive know when to grab the data from the sector header. I can't describe how the Apple ][ state machine PROM works, but it is its own flavor of beast, resembling nothing else in the home-computer arena. I'm not surprised that nobody ever got things to read in other brands of computer. > Also, does anyone know anywhere I could get a Compaticard (and any > necessary drivers to make it useful)? I've looked on ebay a few times now > and still haven't seen one... Can't help you there. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 15 13:35:12 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: [CCTECH] test In-Reply-To: <02May15.114801edt.119073@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020515133512.49cf00c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Dammed quite list! I haven't gotten anything from it except the test messages. Joe At 10:11 AM 5/15/02 -0400, Jeff wrote: >> Steve wrote: I sent a test yesterday but, it was refused. Said I wasn't on the >>list. Wonder if this one will go through? > > Came through fine > > _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed May 15 11:53:30 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [OT] Emabrgoed Domains In-Reply-To: <20020515000546.B22042@borg.org> Message-ID: <20020515165330.6331.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Kent Borg wrote: > On Tue, May 14, 2002 at 09:55:50PM -0400, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > > Sorry about this, but the volume of spam has gotten > > intolerable, and the domains that are hosting it have > > been embargoed; anything from the domains > > > > yahoo.com > > hotmail.com > > msn.com > > aol.com > > > > will be deleted with extreme prejudice. I understand the sentiment, but that hoses me. I work for one of those guys (I'm not admitting which one here - company policy) and I happen to use a variety of names from those domains because I want *portable* e-mail. > I get a lot of spam, and I do not get much spam from those domains. > Like nearly zero... Agreed... as you say... lots of mail purports to come from those addresses but does not. Personally, I don't have a problem with isolating entire countries because they can't/won't tighten up open mail relays. There's an entire thread about how/why South Korea is infamous for this, but it boils down to a "standard" install for schools, and all the security instructions are written in English, causing lots of adminstrators to skip a post-install securing session... Message-ID: On Wed, 15 May 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > The MC68000 is reputed to have approximately 68000 transistors, but > I've also heard that that number is weapons-grade bolognium. Yeah. The 4004 was once rumored to have been named that because it had the equivalent of 4004 transistors. THAT is what probably gave rise to the 68000 silliness. It's MUCH more impressive what was done with only 486! From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Wed May 15 11:57:31 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Test post and DEC Unix question References: <20020515162849.20475.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3CE2937B.9D00E159@Vishay.com> Ethan, the "-flags" option of the "boot" command takes _one_or_two_ longwords as an argument, so specifying "-fl 1" defaults to "-fl 0,1". Both set the high-order longword to zero, and the low-order longword to one, which for Unix seems to mean single-user mode. For VMS, it would mean conversational bootstrap. I believe DEC put the comma in for readability. With a VAX' comparable /R5:n option, you could have up to eight hex digits, which is acceptable, but sixteen hex digits with "-flags n" would just be too much to read comfortably. BTW: If dkc0 is set as your default boot device (bootdef_dev), you should be able to just "b" into normal (multiuser) operating mode, or "b -fl 1" if you need something special. Andreas Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Rick Murphy wrote: > > At 03:49 PM 5/14/02 -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > >I'm trying to break into (my own) DEC Alpha running Digital Unix V3.2... > > > Use: > > >>> b -flags 0,1 dkc0 > > Why the 0? I did this (Thanks, Doc!) > > >>> b dkc0 -flags 1 > > ... and I got in just fine. ... > Still curious about the "0" in your sample line, though. > > Thanks for the tip, > > -ethan -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From csmith at amdocs.com Wed May 15 11:55:33 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] transistor counts again Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E017845FD@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] > Yeah. > The 4004 was once rumored to have been named that because it had the > equivalent of 4004 transistors. > THAT is what probably gave rise to the 68000 silliness. > It's MUCH more impressive what was done with only 486! Wouldn't that be 80486? Motorola kept it much smaller for a while, and then jumped to 88000 ;) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' -------------- next part -------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this message is proprietary of Amdocs, protected from disclosure, and may be privileged. The information is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s) of the message. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, use, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Wed May 15 12:01:03 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] transistor counts again References: Message-ID: <3CE2944F.1C5864D4@Vishay.com> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > The 4004 was once rumored to have been named that because it had the > equivalent of 4004 transistors. > THAT is what probably gave rise to the 68000 silliness. > It's MUCH more impressive what was done with only 486! Shoudn't that read "80486"? -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From enrico.badella at softstar.it Wed May 15 12:00:33 2002 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] 9373-030 and VM370 References: <200205151506.IAA10046@spies.com> Message-ID: <3CE29431.D418EFC8@softstar.it> Hello! In the next day I should pickup a 9373-030 with one 9332-600 and two 9332-400 disks, one 9373 PSU and a 3430 tape. Are there any precautions needed for this type of disks, like head blocking? What about booting? There seems to be a couple of floppies for the OS not much more. I'd like to hear from you guys impressions, suggestions and ideas. I've got several VM manuals including TCP stuff, the machine seems to have a BNC lan connection; I'd love to put it on Internet a access it with TN3270 cheers e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From tarsi at binhost.com Wed May 15 12:06:41 2002 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] TRS-80 Floppies In-Reply-To: <3CE291BC.3C0E5963@adelphia.net> References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467918@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> <3CE291BC.3C0E5963@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <0205151206410F.00521@simon> I have a RadioShack TRS-80 Model II with 8" floppy drives. I *believe* it takes SS/SD disks, but can someone confirm this? Does it required hard-sectored disks? I'm trying to find some 8" floppies to work in this machine. Also, if anyone has TRSDOS or any other software for the TRS-80 line on 8" floppies, would you let me know? I'd be interested in getting some copies. I believe the drive *inside* the machine is a Shugart, but the 3 drives in the extra drive pack extension, I have no idea. Thanks, Tarsi 210 From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed May 15 12:14:03 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Test post and DEC Unix question In-Reply-To: <3CE2937B.9D00E159@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <20020515171403.29083.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Andreas Freiherr wrote: > Ethan, > > the "-flags" option of the "boot" command takes _one_or_two_ longwords > as an argument... Thanks for the clarification. I'm used to the older /R5:00000000... method. > BTW: If dkc0 is set as your default boot device (bootdef_dev), you > should be able to just "b" into normal (multiuser) operating mode, or "b > -fl 1" if you need something special. It is not. 'b' by itself referenced a disk array that is no longer attached to this machine (I got it from surplus and I appear to have gotten the CPU cabinet but not an expansion cabinet). I have two trays of RZ26s (3 each), one RZ73 and one tray with no power converter, just a 50-pin blue-ribbon SCSI-1 connector for attachment to the "missing" 6 drives (according to the logs I've been perusing). When 'b' didn't work, I just started booting the first drive on every shelf until it came up... third time's the charm in this case. Thanks for the exposition on flags. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From brian at sigh.mse.jhu.edu Wed May 15 12:14:29 2002 From: brian at sigh.mse.jhu.edu (Brian Harrington) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [OT] Emabrgoed Domains In-Reply-To: <000501c1fbb3$a7cea4e0$75eeffcc@Shadow> References: <000501c1fbb3$a7cea4e0$75eeffcc@Shadow> Message-ID: <36157481.1021468468@avalanche.mse.jhu.edu> --On Tuesday, May 14, 2002 9:55 PM -0400 "Douglas H. Quebbeman" wrote: > Someday, somebody will make procmail easy to use, and this > won't be necessary. Procmail IS easy to use, it's just hard to learn. :-) Most of the "From:" headers with the domains that you're blocking are forged. I think that you're probably better off taking a look at something like SpamAssassin . It's a cool toy, and endlessly tweakable. -- Brian -- Brian Harrington Curator of Digital Collections Milton S. Eisenhower Library The Johns Hopkins University brian@sigh.mse.jhu.edu From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed May 15 12:13:25 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] transistor counts again References: <3CE283B4.2F2F4A12@jetnet.ab.ca> <004101c1fc2e$344951c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3CE29735.F8849911@jetnet.ab.ca> Richard Erlacher wrote: > > I don't know what info you need, but the 74F219 is a chip I used in a 6502 > emulation I built back in '80-something, and it's precisely a 74F189 with true > rather than inverting outputs. Well a 74LS219 or similar is what I would like. 16x4 non inverting ram that is, but I don't think they are sold any more. Heck I am having problems finding 74LS181's and 74LS670's. (Anybody know a source in CANADA). -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed May 15 12:20:45 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] transistor counts again In-Reply-To: <3CE29735.F8849911@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20020515172045.30057.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ben Franchuk wrote: > Richard Erlacher wrote: > Well a 74LS219 or similar is what I would like. 16x4 non inverting ram > that is, but I don't think they are sold any more. Heck I am having > problems finding 74LS181's and 74LS670's. > (Anybody know a source in CANADA). I have a small quantity of 74181s (from 1970-something, not LS AFAIK) and 74F189s. I do not know of new sources... I got these from a high- school electronics lab that was being cleaned out. There are 4 74181s in that TI980A I recently landed. Docs are on the way from the donor, I am perpetually promised. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed May 15 12:21:59 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] transistor counts again In-Reply-To: <3CE2944F.1C5864D4@Vishay.com> Message-ID: > > The 4004 was once rumored to have been named that because it had the > > equivalent of 4004 transistors. > > THAT is what probably gave rise to the 68000 silliness. > > It's MUCH more impressive what was done with only 486! On Wed, 15 May 2002, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > Shoudn't that read "80486"? only if we stick with intel! That's what was so impressive about the Cyrix 486SLC, was that it DIDN'T have the other 80,000! 'course it always seemed more like a fast 80386 to me. And the K6 does a really nice job with 6144! and how about the Z80, V20, etc.? From dankolb at ox.compsoc.net Wed May 15 12:32:35 2002 From: dankolb at ox.compsoc.net (Dan Kolb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Test post and DEC Unix question In-Reply-To: <20020515162849.20475.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020515162849.20475.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200205151832.35608.dankolb@ox.compsoc.net> On Wednesday 15 May 2002 17:28 pm, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Rick Murphy wrote: ^^^^^ Hmm....I seem to have not got Rick's message for some reason. > > At 03:49 PM 5/14/02 -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > >I'm trying to break into (my own) DEC Alpha running Digital Unix > > > V3.2... I'm trying to do the same on OSF1/Digital Unix v4.0 > > Once you're in single-user mode, "mount -r /" to remount the root... This doesn't want to work for me - keeps saying 'device busy'. I can't get a man page for 'mount' up, because the root fs (and therefore /tmp) is read-only, and I don't have another Digital Unix 4.0 box to get a man page up on :-) Could anyone kindly point me towards the right options for remounting a mounted filesystem read-write? Thanks, Dan -- If you eat a live frog in the morning, nothing worse will happen to either of you for the rest of the day. From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed May 15 12:48:56 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Test post and DEC Unix question Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146794F@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > ---------- > From: Dan Kolb > Reply To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 1:32 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: [CCTALK] Test post and DEC Unix question > > On Wednesday 15 May 2002 17:28 pm, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Rick Murphy wrote: > > ^^^^^ Hmm....I seem to have not got Rick's message for some reason. > > > > At 03:49 PM 5/14/02 -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > >I'm trying to break into (my own) DEC Alpha running Digital Unix > > > > V3.2... > > I'm trying to do the same on OSF1/Digital Unix v4.0 > > > > Once you're in single-user mode, "mount -r /" to remount the root... > > This doesn't want to work for me - keeps saying 'device busy'. I can't get > > a man page for 'mount' up, because the root fs (and therefore /tmp) is > read-only, and I don't have another Digital Unix 4.0 box to get a man > page up on :-) Could anyone kindly point me towards the right options for > remounting a mounted filesystem read-write? > > -- > According to man mount(8) on my D/UX 3.2C box... -u Remount a file system.... -r read only -w read/write, which is equal to -o rw ..an example there is... # mount -u / ... when booted into single user. -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed May 15 12:41:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] TRS-80 Floppies In-Reply-To: <0205151206410F.00521@simon> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 May 2002, Tarsi wrote: > I have a RadioShack TRS-80 Model II with 8" floppy drives. I *believe* it > takes SS/SD disks, but can someone confirm this? Does it required > hard-sectored disks? Double density SOFT sectored > Also, if anyone has TRSDOS or any other software for the TRS-80 line on 8" > floppies, would you let me know? I'd be interested in getting some copies. It will run CP/M (as well as TRS-DOS) There are several different CP/M installations for it, such as "Pickles and Trout" From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed May 15 12:41:29 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] transistor counts again Message-ID: <200205151741.KAA19857@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > >> > The 4004 was once rumored to have been named that because it had the >> > equivalent of 4004 transistors. >> > THAT is what probably gave rise to the 68000 silliness. >> > It's MUCH more impressive what was done with only 486! > >On Wed, 15 May 2002, Andreas Freiherr wrote: >> Shoudn't that read "80486"? >only if we stick with intel! > >That's what was so impressive about the Cyrix 486SLC, was that it DIDN'T >have the other 80,000! 'course it always seemed more like a fast 80386 to >me. >And the K6 does a really nice job with 6144! >and how about the Z80, V20, etc.? > Hi What are you guys talking about. The K6 has millions of transistors, as does the 486. Dwight From jim at jkearney.com Wed May 15 12:35:23 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] TRS-80 Floppies References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467918@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> <3CE291BC.3C0E5963@adelphia.net> <0205151206410F.00521@simon> Message-ID: <003301c1fc36$e4ca20d0$1301090a@xpace.net> >From: "Tarsi" > I have a RadioShack TRS-80 Model II with 8" floppy drives. I *believe* it > takes SS/SD disks, but can someone confirm this? Does it required > hard-sectored disks? I remember that they were 500K, and not hard sectored. Does that narrow it down? Jim From jim at jkearney.com Wed May 15 12:38:49 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] TRS-80 Floppies References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467918@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> <3CE291BC.3C0E5963@adelphia.net> <0205151206410F.00521@simon> Message-ID: <003701c1fc37$5f27cfd0$1301090a@xpace.net> >From: "Tarsi" > I have a RadioShack TRS-80 Model II with 8" floppy drives. I *believe* it > takes SS/SD disks, but can someone confirm this? Does it required > hard-sectored disks? p.s. I think the later versions had a dual drive with ~980K per drive From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed May 15 12:41:05 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] transistor counts again References: Message-ID: <3CE29DB1.49D555DD@jetnet.ab.ca> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > > The 4004 was once rumored to have been named that because it had the > > > equivalent of 4004 transistors. > > > THAT is what probably gave rise to the 68000 silliness. > > > It's MUCH more impressive what was done with only 486! > > On Wed, 15 May 2002, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > > Shoudn't that read "80486"? > only if we stick with intel! > > That's what was so impressive about the Cyrix 486SLC, was that it DIDN'T > have the other 80,000! 'course it always seemed more like a fast 80386 to > me. > And the K6 does a really nice job with 6144! > and how about the Z80, V20, etc.? What about the PDP-1 ... 18 bits on 1 transitor. :) -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed May 15 13:00:14 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: OT: Mac parts available for the postage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020515180014.77461.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Don Maslin wrote: > > > On Fri, 10 May 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > Does anybody want some 68-pin (Mac vsimm) video rams from a MAC? > > I could use a couple, Dick. I could, too! I wish I'd seen this earlier. I need two to four 1MB VSIMMs to resurrect a stripped PPC Mac. Any left? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From truthanl at oclc.org Wed May 15 13:00:50 2002 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] DEC Unix (Break-in) DIgital Dec3000/500 Flamingo Message-ID: <5D2A5FE013C66B44901B5A45A5304DDA0172D552@oa2-server.oa.oclc.org> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > >I'm trying to break into (my own) DEC Alpha running Digital Unix V3.2... COINCIDENTLY: I was trying to break into a DEC 3000/500 system I inherited from a launched development project here at OCLC. Rick Murphy's post also got me into single user mode on my system, But unlike you I haven't a Clue on how to edit the password files now that I am In. I had almost sent off for NetBSD for the Flamingo, but reading thier list I could not have used the console or Mouse that is on this system. My system has Digital Unix V4.0D (rev 878) May 5 1998 During the Boot the system changes Fonts and goes to 1280X1024 Mode My system has 224 MBytes of Ram 2 RZ25 drives, one RZ26 drive, one RRD42 cd drive and a TLZ06 tape transport. It also has the DEC lance ethernet installed. So how do I edit the root password from here? This is my first foray into unix admin.... Sincerely Larry Truthan From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed May 15 13:14:32 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] DEC Unix (Break-in) DIgital Dec3000/500 Flamingo Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467951@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Truthan,Larry > > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > >I'm trying to break into (my own) DEC Alpha running Digital Unix > V3.2... > > > COINCIDENTLY: I was trying to break into a DEC 3000/500 system I > inherited > from a launched development project here at OCLC. > > Rick Murphy's post also got me into single user mode on my system, But > unlike you I haven't a Clue on how to edit the password files now that I > am > In. > > I had almost sent off for NetBSD for the Flamingo, but reading thier > list > I could not have used the console or Mouse that is on this system. > > My system has Digital Unix V4.0D (rev 878) May 5 1998 > > During the Boot the system changes Fonts and goes to 1280X1024 Mode > > My system has 224 MBytes of Ram 2 RZ25 drives, one RZ26 drive, one RRD42 > cd drive and a TLZ06 tape transport. It also has the DEC lance ethernet > installed. > > > So how do I edit the root password from here? This is my first foray > into > unix admin.... > # passwd ...is the command. Look into vipw also... But be careful in that one... BTW, you can get X running on a NetBSD loaded DEC3000. If you search through the mail archives for port-Alpha/netBSD, you should find some info on how to do it... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From dankolb at ox.compsoc.net Wed May 15 13:14:05 2002 From: dankolb at ox.compsoc.net (Dan Kolb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Test post and DEC Unix question In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146794F@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146794F@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <200205151914.05992.dankolb@ox.compsoc.net> On Wednesday 15 May 2002 18:48 pm, David Woyciesjes wrote: > ..an example there is... > # mount -u / > ... when booted into single user. Thanks! That did the trick. Dan -- Boys are beyond the range of anybody's sure understanding, at least when they are between the ages of 18 months and 90 years. -- James Thurber From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed May 15 13:25:22 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Test post and DEC Unix question Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467953@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Dan Kolb > > On Wednesday 15 May 2002 18:48 pm, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > ..an example there is... > > # mount -u / > > ... when booted into single user. > > Thanks! That did the trick. > > Dan > -- > No problem. Now, if I can only get paid for doing this e-mail computer support as well as here ***sigh*** ;) -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From ghldbrd at ccp.com Wed May 15 13:18:08 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Commodore 1541 Drive References: Message-ID: <3CE2A660.33823E0A@ccp.com> Pat Finnegan wrote: > > I'm trying to get one, and wondering what success people have had with > connecting them to a PC using "X-Cables" and "Star commander" to transfer > data ( http://sta.c64.org/sc.html ). Also, is there any chance of making > a 1541 read an Apple ][ disk? I know they both use GCR encodings for > their disks, and it'd be really useful if I could read disks on my PC. > > Also, does anyone know anywhere I could get a Compaticard (and any > necessary drivers to make it useful)? I've looked on ebay a few times now > and still haven't seen one... > > -- Pat AFAIK, the 1541 only does its own SSSD disks. The 1571 OTOH does several cp/m MFM formats. You could do some limited changing of DOS in the controller, but it is very limited. If you can lay your hands on "Inside Commodore DOS" by Richard Inmers & Gerald Neufeld (ISBN 0-88190-266) you might be able to hack it to read Apple disks. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed May 15 13:20:52 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] DEC Unix (Break-in) DIgital Dec3000/500 Flamingo In-Reply-To: <5D2A5FE013C66B44901B5A45A5304DDA0172D552@oa2-server.oa.oclc.org> Message-ID: <20020515182052.81062.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Truthan,Larry" wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > >I'm trying to break into (my own) DEC Alpha running Digital Unix > V3.2... > > COINCIDENTLY: I was trying to break into a DEC 3000/500 system I > inherited from a launched development project here at OCLC. Funny... seeing as how I'm a couple of miles down the road from you. > Rick Murphy's post also got me into single user mode on my system, But > unlike you I haven't a Clue on how to edit the password files now that I > am In. Do you know vi? Is that part of the problem? > My system has Digital Unix V4.0D (rev 878) May 5 1998 > > During the Boot the system changes Fonts and goes to 1280X1024 Mode > My system has 224 MBytes of Ram 2 RZ25 drives, one RZ26 drive, one > RRD42 cd drive and a TLZ06 tape transport. Decently equipped. Nice little box. > It also has the DEC lance ethernet installed. That's standard for a DEC box (old Suns, too... 7990 chip) Nice. If you get tired of it, I'm sure I can make the long drive to save it. :-) > So how do I edit the root password from here? This is my first foray > into unix admin.... OK... if you've gotten into single-user mode, you need to remount the root filesystem read/write (it's currently read-only). It was in a previous post... it's something like... mount -u / (I didn't stop to think about it last night; it is an example in the man page - /usr/man/man1/mount.1, IIRC) Now, you can edit it, but you don't even have vi... fsck /usr mount /usr Now you have vi. TERM=vt100 export TERM Now vi knows how to format control strings to your console. The "approved" method of editing the password file on a BSDish machine is vipw (vi the passwd file). It establishes a lock, creates a temp file and only twiddles the real file while locked. This prevents two admins from clobbering the passwd file (which is bad, mmmkay?) I learned last night (this morning ;-) that vipw also calls mkpasswd, which produces a hashed-password file that is used to "quickly access" passwords for verification, so that each login attempt does not re-do the work of the others... it's a feature. Really. You can vi /etc/passwd and remove what's in between the second and third colons, then run mkpasswd with (I think) no options and it has the right defaults. You can run vipw and make the same edit, and it automatically runs mkpasswd. For my first try last night, I used the passwd command to change the root password, but it didn't stick. I had to use passwd _then_ mkpasswd. That stuck. Mind you, the password file looked perfect. The problem was this hidden, hashed file. Under Solaris, etc., I'm used to editing the /etc/shadow file. This DU/BSDish thing is too new for me. Once you have edited the password file, you can hit control-D to exit your single-user shell and the startup will proceed as normal. You can then login with your new root password. Feel free to drop me a line off-list if you need further assistance. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed May 15 13:28:25 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] transistor counts again In-Reply-To: <200205151741.KAA19857@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 May 2002, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >> > The 4004 was once rumored to have been named that because it had the > >> > equivalent of 4004 transistors. > >> > THAT is what probably gave rise to the 68000 silliness. > >> > It's MUCH more impressive what was done with only 486! > >> Shoudn't that read "80486"? > >only if we stick with intel! > >That's what was so impressive about the Cyrix 486SLC, was that it DIDN'T > >have the other 80,000! 'course it always seemed more like a fast 80386 to > >me. > >And the K6 does a really nice job with 6144! > >and how about the Z80, V20, etc.? > Hi > What are you guys talking about. The K6 has millions of transistors, > as does the 486. Just following through on ridiculing the premise that the 68000 was named that because of having 68000 transistors. Yes, we DO actually know that the K6 has more than 6K (6144) of transistors. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 15 15:28:44 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] CPU temperature monitoring Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020515152844.4517aa02@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I'm sure that most of you are aware that many of the newer Intel and clone processors are real heat generators and that it's critical to keep them with specified temperature limits. I downloaded and installed a CPU and motherboard temperture monitoring program called MotherBoard Monitor. My question is how accurate are these types of programs? On CPU intensive task my CPU frequently pegs out the temperature gauge in the MBM but the BIOS temperature monitoring never shows any indication of overheating. Joe From mtapley at swri.edu Wed May 15 13:37:31 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [OT] Emabrgoed Domains Message-ID: >From: Ethan Dicks ^^^^^^^^^ >I understand the sentiment, but that hoses me. I work for one of those >guys (I'm not admitting which one here - company policy)... Ummm.... Glad swri.edu wasn't on the embargoed list. I couldn't understand the punch through instructions. Is it easy to embargo countries vs. domains? - Mark From dougq at iglou.com Wed May 15 13:40:09 2002 From: dougq at iglou.com (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: "[CCTALK] CPU temperature monitoring Message-ID: <000701c1fc3f$f181f650$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > I'm sure that most of you are aware that many of the newer > Intel and clone processors are real heat generators and that > it's critical to keep them with specified temperature limits. > I downloaded and installed a CPU and motherboard temperture > monitoring program called MotherBoard Monitor. My question > is how accurate are these types of programs? On CPU intensive > task my CPU frequently pegs out the temperature gauge in the > MBM but the BIOS temperature monitoring never shows any > indication of overheating. There is a calibration procedure you can go through, it's all in the documentation... -dq From edick at idcomm.com Wed May 15 13:43:15 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Commodore 1541 Drive References: <20020515164658.21553.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <009401c1fc40$5fa8f7a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> it's well to remember the "GCR" stands for group-coded-recording, which can mean a lot of things, and that it's a form of "RLL," or run-length-limited" encoding. Both operate in a way that generates, typically, more transitions in the aggregate, than the original (NRZ) data stream, but locates the transitions propitiously in a way that limits their density so that it remains within the head-media combination's capability to resolve those transitons accurately enough to allow data recovery. That leaves LOTS of room, and it's in this room where both the Apple scheme and the Commodore scheme live. My Apple-targeted HDC from back in the early '80's used ANSI standard group-codes, which, certainly isn't the only uesable scheme one could use, but it was established, and I could hand it to someone to build a lookup table for me, which is what I did. Woz did something different, and so, probably, did the Commodore guys. To qualify for group-coded-recording, all one required was a unique mapping from one pattern to another, and and back again, and both schemes accomplish that. The purpose of the scheme is to rearrange the flux transitions so the system can tolerate them, yet allow more of them to be represented within a given linear distance of head travel with respect to the media. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 10:46 AM Subject: Re: [CCTALK] Commodore 1541 Drive > > --- Pat Finnegan wrote: > > I'm trying to get one, and wondering what success people have had with > > connecting them to a PC using "X-Cables" and "Star commander" to transfer > > data ( http://sta.c64.org/sc.html ). > > I have a homemade cable that is the model *before* the X cables were > devised. I keep a 486 around for reading 1541 disks. > > > Also, is there any chance of making > > a 1541 read an Apple ][ disk? I know they both use GCR encodings for > > their disks, and it'd be really useful if I could read disks on my PC. > > Not as far as I know. I think the lowest bit density on the 1541 > is identical to what the Apple ][ uses over the entire surface (it's > 17 sectors of 256 bytes on the 1541, vs 16 on the Apple ][, but > due to header/trailer differences), but I do not recall a single > program or trick to read an Apple disk in a 1541. > > I was a beta tester for the Spartan Mimic, the expensive and unpopular > Apple "emulator" for the C-64 (co-processor is more like it). One of > the boards that came in the box was a card that sat inside the 1541, > between the drive mech and the 1541 mainboard. It had lots of relays > and stole the drive mech out from under the 1541 board. That was > the only Commodore drive I ever saw read an Apple ][ disk, and it > still needed an Apple controller to do it (there was a 20-pin connector > on the Spartan drive board). > > Among other differences (smart vs dumb peripherals), the 1541 depends > on a certain header design - there's an 8-input NAND hooked to a shift > register on the input side, and the Set Overflow pin of the 6502 on > the other. When a bunch of 1s go streaming past the head, this logic > kicks the processor out of a tight loop where it branches to itself > while the overflow bit is clear. This, coupled with precise timing, > lets the 6502 in the drive know when to grab the data from the sector > header. I can't describe how the Apple ][ state machine PROM works, > but it is its own flavor of beast, resembling nothing else in the > home-computer arena. I'm not surprised that nobody ever got things > to read in other brands of computer. > > > Also, does anyone know anywhere I could get a Compaticard (and any > > necessary drivers to make it useful)? I've looked on ebay a few times now > > and still haven't seen one... > > Can't help you there. > > -ethan > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience > http://launch.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > cctalk mailing list > cctalk@classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > > From edick at idcomm.com Wed May 15 13:48:54 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] TRS-80 Floppies References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467918@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> <3CE291BC.3C0E5963@adelphia.net> <0205151206410F.00521@simon> Message-ID: <00a401c1fc41$2f1eb560$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> If you look inside and find the FDC, you'll probably find a standard FDC LSI. If it's a WD 1771, you will be limited to SD recording, but certainly can use soft-sectored media, since the controller can't do hard-sectoring. If it's a 179x, or a NEC 765, it can do DD recording, which still means you can use soft sectored media. If you have a NEC uPD371 (maybe 372) you may have to have hard-sectored media. I doubt that's the case, however, since ISTR that NEC stopped production on that before Radio Shack got into the computer business. (Allison ... ?) If you need media, derperately enough to use old media, perhaps I can help you out, but if you need RS software, I can't. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tarsi" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 11:06 AM Subject: [CCTALK] TRS-80 Floppies > I have a RadioShack TRS-80 Model II with 8" floppy drives. I *believe* it > takes SS/SD disks, but can someone confirm this? Does it required > hard-sectored disks? > > I'm trying to find some 8" floppies to work in this machine. > > Also, if anyone has TRSDOS or any other software for the TRS-80 line on 8" > floppies, would you let me know? I'd be interested in getting some copies. > > I believe the drive *inside* the machine is a Shugart, but the 3 drives in > the extra drive pack extension, I have no idea. > > Thanks, > Tarsi > 210 > _______________________________________________ > cctalk mailing list > cctalk@classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > > From bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com Wed May 15 14:18:23 2002 From: bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com (Bill McDermith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] transistor counts again References: <20020515172045.30057.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00a401c1fc45$498e2580$9101a8c0@mn> Jameco has 74181s and 74LS181s -- can you not buy from them in Canada? (Yea, I know they are relatively expensive...) www.jameco.com https://www.jameco.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prmenbr=91&prrfnbr= 1754&cgrfnbr=501&ctgys= https://www.jameco.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prmenbr=91&prrfnbr= 1870&cgrfnbr=501&ctgys= beware of the usual link wrap... Or just look under ICs (or search for 74181, 74LS181) BG Micro (www.bgmicro.com) also claims to have ls181 for $1.15 each... Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 11:20 AM Subject: Re: [CCTALK] transistor counts again > > --- Ben Franchuk wrote: > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Well a 74LS219 or similar is what I would like. 16x4 non inverting ram > > that is, but I don't think they are sold any more. Heck I am having > > problems finding 74LS181's and 74LS670's. > > (Anybody know a source in CANADA). > > I have a small quantity of 74181s (from 1970-something, not LS AFAIK) > and 74F189s. I do not know of new sources... I got these from a high- > school electronics lab that was being cleaned out. > > There are 4 74181s in that TI980A I recently landed. Docs are on > the way from the donor, I am perpetually promised. > > -ethan > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience > http://launch.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > cctalk mailing list > cctalk@classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk From lists at subatomix.com Wed May 15 12:00:00 2002 From: lists at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] Keycap cleaning strategy Message-ID: <10474797302.20020515120000@subatomix.com> I'm going to clean a Sun 3 keyboard today. Its keycaps are filthy. The strategy I've used in the past for the keycaps is: * Goto the kitchen. There is a double sink there. * Fill one sink with hot, soapy water and the other will cold, non-soapy water. * Dump the keycaps into the hot sink and let them soak for a while. * Slosh the keycaps around a bit. * Transfer the keycaps to the cold water. If necessary, wipe grime from each one as it is transferred. * Arrange the keycaps for drying. Dry them with a hair dryer. * Test for dryness by tapping a table with a keycap. If any water drops appear on the table, repeat the previous step. I have a dishwasher, but I don't trust it. -- Jeffrey Sharp The email address lists@subatomix.com is for mailing list traffic. Please send off-list mail to roach jay ess ess at wasp subatomix beetle dot com. You may need to remove some bugs first. _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed May 15 12:02:05 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Who's going to Dayton? Take two Message-ID: <20020515170205.83542.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> OK... something about the recent changes to the list adminstration process caused my reply to be bounced, but we'll try a fresh message... A couple of list members piped up about going to the Hamvention. I will be there on Friday only, and not for the entire day (previous commitment elsewhere). If anyone has a mind to get together, I will have a 2m radio and a cell phone. Write me directly for numbers. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From foo at siconic.com Wed May 15 12:20:34 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] TRS-80 Model 1 Message-ID: Here's some lady with a TRS-80 Model 1. She wants money for it. $50-$75 would be reasonable. Reply-to: Note: As a benefit to those here on the cctech side of the list who value topical messages, I am only sending these many referrals I receive every month to cctech. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 18:35:31 -0700 From: ROBERT HEIMANSON To: vcf@vintage.org RADIO SHACK TRS-80 MODEL I COMPUTER - Complete with Keyboard, Monitor, Cassette Drive Recorder, Printer, Books, Original Manuals, and Lots of Software. A REAL CLASSIC VINTAGE COMPUTER FOR THE COLLECTOR. Make an offer, plus UPS Shipping. E-mail Barbara at bob-barb@humboldt1.com. Call (707) 445-2279, evenings or Sundays Pacific Time. Write to: Barbara Heimanson, 4127 Walnut Drive, Eureka, California 95503. Barbara Heimanson -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed May 15 12:05:45 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: Mac Classic - almost dead In-Reply-To: <003d01c1fa90$aa533920$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20020515170545.24782.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > Well ... Monday and Tuesday are the "senior discount days" at thrift > stores here in Denver. I'll see perhaps 25 different Mac's in the price > range $5 ..$25, and the majority of those over $10 will probably be > around for a week or so, and then be tossed into the dumptster because > nobody has bought them. Ever see stuff as new as a 7200? I just got one for $10 at the local Uni surplus w/96MB of RAM, and I didn't pick up its mate. Now, I'm trying to populate another (bigger) machine, and I wish I had gotten both. I have all the SE/30s I'll ever use (two) and plenty of Mac IIci and other Motorola-based Macs. OTOH, if you start to see PPC Macs, I'm interested for $10-$25. Thanks, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From mrbill at mrbill.net Wed May 15 12:05:57 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: [CCTECH] Keycap cleaning strategy In-Reply-To: <10474797302.20020515120000@subatomix.com> References: <10474797302.20020515120000@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <20020515170557.GL14520@mrbill.net> On Wed, May 15, 2002 at 12:00:00PM -0500, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > I'm going to clean a Sun 3 keyboard today. Its keycaps are filthy. The > strategy I've used in the past for the keycaps is: When I clean keycaps (removable, from an "IBM clicky" keyboard), I just remove them all, and then clean them individually with Windex and some paper towels, then put them back on. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Wed May 15 12:13:31 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: [CCTECH] Keycap cleaning strategy References: <10474797302.20020515120000@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3CE2973B.DE8BEB2D@Vishay.com> I usually have good success with the foam-type screen cleaner sold as aerosol. It is meant not only for the glass part (tube itself), but also for the housing, which is certainly made from the same material as the keyboard. Apply as described: spray on, let soak for a while, then wipe off with a paper towel. Admitted, this is a bit more tricky with a keyboard than with a screen, but it is possible. Even moderately filthy keyboards do not require taking off the keycaps this way, so it's a quick method. I wouldn't trust the dishwasher either, it may use temperatures that could melt or at least harm the plastics. Let alone the chemical processes, and the warnings in the manual of the dishwasher about plastics! Andreas Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > I'm going to clean a Sun 3 keyboard today. Its keycaps are filthy. The > strategy I've used in the past for the keycaps is: > > * Goto the kitchen. There is a double sink there. > * Fill one sink with hot, soapy water and the other will cold, non-soapy > water. > * Dump the keycaps into the hot sink and let them soak for a while. > * Slosh the keycaps around a bit. > * Transfer the keycaps to the cold water. If necessary, wipe grime from each > one as it is transferred. > * Arrange the keycaps for drying. Dry them with a hair dryer. > * Test for dryness by tapping a table with a keycap. If any water drops > appear on the table, repeat the previous step. > > I have a dishwasher, but I don't trust it. > > -- > Jeffrey Sharp -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From foo at siconic.com Wed May 15 12:16:32 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] Working yet? Message-ID: Is cctech passing messages yet? All I see are messages from cctalk. A lot of them are messages that are on topic and should be going to cctech. I'm waiting to unsubscribe to cctalk until I know cctech is working. Who's doing the moderation on cctech? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From foo at siconic.com Wed May 15 12:22:12 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: [CCTECH] test In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020515133512.49cf00c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 May 2002, Joe wrote: > Dammed quite list! I haven't gotten anything from it except the test messages. Same here. Everything's been coming from cctalk, even on-topic messages. I think something is broken. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed May 15 12:43:25 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] RE: [CCTECH] TRS-80 Model 1 Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146794E@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Sellam Ismail > > ... > > Note: As a benefit to those here on the cctech side of the list who value > topical messages, I am only sending these many referrals I receive every > month to cctech. > ...... > > -- > Ummm, aren't all cctech messages supposed to automatically get sent to cctalk also? If so, then that 'benefit' wouldn't exactly work they way you intend, Sellam... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed May 15 12:27:18 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: [CCTECH] test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02May15.133834edt.119061@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >On Wed, 15 May 2002, Joe wrote: > >> Dammed quite list! I haven't gotten anything from it except the >>test messages. > >Same here. Everything's been coming from cctalk, even on-topic messages. > >I think something is broken. I've seen a couple of cctech messages passed over to cctalk as well, so I've gotten two copies of those. I also sent a message just to cctech earlier and it errored out for moderator approval because the software complained about a blind cc: being addressed to cctalk, though there was none included on my end. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From Innfogra at aol.com Wed May 15 12:42:05 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: [CCTECH] TRS-80 Model 1 Message-ID: <183.8622883.2a13f7ed@aol.com> In a message dated 5/15/02 10:22:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, foo@siconic.com writes: > As a benefit to those here on the cctech side of the list who value > topical messages, I am only sending these many referrals I receive every > month to cctech. > Thanks Sellam. This is an interesting idea. If you get this message then CCTECH is working for you. It is for me. Paxton Astoria, OR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020515/9110c6cd/attachment.html From pdp11 at bellsouth.net Wed May 15 13:11:47 2002 From: pdp11 at bellsouth.net (pdp11@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: [CCTECH] Keycap cleaning strategy Message-ID: <20020515181147.EVOP8262.imf18bis.bellsouth.net@localhost> > I'm going to clean a Sun 3 keyboard today. Its keycaps are filthy. The > strategy I've used in the past for the keycaps is: > > * Goto the kitchen. There is a double sink there. > * Fill one sink with hot, soapy water and the other will cold, non-soapy > water. > * Dump the keycaps into the hot sink and let them soak for a while. > * Slosh the keycaps around a bit. > * Transfer the keycaps to the cold water. If necessary, wipe grime from each > one as it is transferred. > * Arrange the keycaps for drying. Dry them with a hair dryer. > * Test for dryness by tapping a table with a keycap. If any water drops > appear on the table, repeat the previous step. > > I have a dishwasher, but I don't trust it. I've had pretty good luck cleaning the caps on Sun keyboards without removing them. By using a good quality commercial spray cleaner sprayed on a cloth, you can get them looking almost like new. If they were really bad, I could see taking them off and soaking them. The dishwasher would be a bad idea. You could easily end up with a bunch of little bits of melted plastic and a broken dishwasher. _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed May 15 13:09:01 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... In-Reply-To: <02May15.133834edt.119061@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> References: <02May15.133834edt.119061@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <02May15.142407edt.119061@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> What's everyone's thoughts on placing circuit boards directly on the bed of a scanner for imaging? Any possibility of damage to the board from the light or other parts of the scanner? I've done it before with good results but not with anything truly unique. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From pdp11 at bellsouth.net Wed May 15 13:38:39 2002 From: pdp11 at bellsouth.net (pdp11@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... Message-ID: <20020515183839.FION8262.imf18bis.bellsouth.net@localhost> > What's everyone's thoughts on placing circuit boards directly > on the bed of a scanner for imaging? Any possibility of damage to > the board from the light or other parts of the scanner? I've done it > before with good results but not with anything truly unique. I've done it many times with great results. The only component I can think of that may be an issue are old UV erasable EPROMS. I would imagine that the scanner lamp may put out enough UV light to cause a problem. _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From sieler at allegro.com Wed May 15 13:47:31 2002 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [OT] Emabrgoed Domains In-Reply-To: <000501c1fbb3$a7cea4e0$75eeffcc@Shadow> Message-ID: <3CE24AD3.6110.3595B0@localhost> Hi, (offline) > To do that, take the two-word phrase I used in the sentence > above, misspell the second word using the commonly-used shorter > mispelling, concatenate it with the violence word that precedes > it, capitalize, and enclose the result in square brackets. Would that make it: PUNCH THRU ? Just curious...if it isn't that, then you probably need to change your directions ... unless you're intending this to also be an intelligence test :) thanks ... and I don't blame you! Stan Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From sieler at allegro.com Wed May 15 13:48:10 2002 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [OT] Emabrgoed Domains In-Reply-To: <000501c1fbb3$a7cea4e0$75eeffcc@Shadow> Message-ID: <3CE24AFA.22707.362B82@localhost> Re: ... Darn..that was supposed to go just to Doug. Pegaus *is* easy to use...if you pay attention :) Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 15 15:57:52 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] BCC error was: Re: [CCTECH] test In-Reply-To: <02May15.133834edt.119061@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020515155752.3d0fbdf2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:27 PM 5/15/02 -0400, Jeff wrote: >> >>I think something is broken. > > I've seen a couple of cctech messages passed over to cctalk >as well, so I've gotten two copies of those. I also sent a message >just to cctech earlier and it errored out for moderator approval >because the software complained about a blind cc: being addressed to >cctalk, though there was none included on my end. I got one of those too. It also said that my message was rejected but it wasn't. I sent Jay a note about it already. FWIW I'm starting to get some messages from CC Tech now. I just got about ten in the last few minutes. Joe _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From foo at siconic.com Wed May 15 14:21:18 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] RE: [CCTECH] TRS-80 Model 1 In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146794E@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 May 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > Note: As a benefit to those here on the cctech side of the list who value > > topical messages, I am only sending these many referrals I receive every > > month to cctech. > > Ummm, aren't all cctech messages supposed to automatically get sent > to cctalk also? If so, then that 'benefit' wouldn't exactly work they way > you intend, Sellam... Err, you're right. This new list is too confusing. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed May 15 14:33:41 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: [CCTECH] test References: Message-ID: <009c01c1fc47$6b723950$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Sellam wrote.... > Same here. Everything's been coming from cctalk, even on-topic messages. > > I think something is broken. no, messages from cctech ARE making it to cctalk, I just saw a bunch go through. They are the ones with dual list subjects... ie. [CCTALK] [CCTECH] Jay West From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed May 15 14:40:13 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] RE: [CCTECH] TRS-80 Model 1 Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467957@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Sellam Ismail > > On Wed, 15 May 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > > Note: As a benefit to those here on the cctech side of the list who > value > > > topical messages, I am only sending these many referrals I receive > every > > > month to cctech. > > > > Ummm, aren't all cctech messages supposed to automatically get sent > > to cctalk also? If so, then that 'benefit' wouldn't exactly work they > way > > you intend, Sellam... > > Err, you're right. This new list is too confusing. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > Well, not really. cctech is moderated, to help block spam, and keep out the OT messages. it is also sent to cctalk, so everyone can see all the messages. cctalk is just that. A big room full of conversations that go anywhere... cctalk are getting the messages from here, right? -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From ms at silke.rt.schwaben.de Wed May 15 14:27:27 2002 From: ms at silke.rt.schwaben.de (Michael Schneider) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... In-Reply-To: <20020515183839.FION8262.imf18bis.bellsouth.net@localhost> References: <20020515183839.FION8262.imf18bis.bellsouth.net@localhost> Message-ID: <1021490847.19364.4.camel@silke> No, even that is unlikely. Scanner lamps do emit UV lights, but with so little energy (and, generally, in the wrong wavelengths) that you can safely look into them, with your bare eyes. I have measured it once, you would need MONTHS of constant exposure to cause an measurable effect. ms On Wed, 2002-05-15 at 20:38, pdp11@bellsouth.net wrote: > > What's everyone's thoughts on placing circuit boards directly > > on the bed of a scanner for imaging? Any possibility of damage to > > the board from the light or other parts of the scanner? I've done it > > before with good results but not with anything truly unique. > > I've done it many times with great results. The only component I can think of that may be an issue are old UV erasable EPROMS. I would imagine that the scanner lamp may put out enough UV light to cause a problem. > > > _______________________________________________ > cctech mailing list > cctech@classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech > -- Michael Schneider email: ms@vaxcluster.de Germany http://www.vaxcluster.de Sieben auf einen Streich _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From allain at panix.com Wed May 15 12:29:39 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] test not to [CCTALK] References: <3.0.6.16.20020515133512.49cf00c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001601c1fc36$18250f40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> test to cctech, not cctalk. _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 15 16:06:13 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: "[CCTALK] CPU temperature monitoring In-Reply-To: <000701c1fc3f$f181f650$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020515160613.3d67b700@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:40 PM 5/15/02 -0400, you wrote: > >There is a calibration procedure you can go through, it's >all in the documentation... It's not in the docs that I got. The setup does have a place to enter an offset to calibrate the readout but it doesn't say how you can find the actual CPU temperature. They also list offsets for some boards but not mine. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 15 16:03:05 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [OT] Emabrgoed Domains In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020515160305.3d6791c8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:37 PM 5/15/02 -0500, you wrote: > >Is it easy to embargo countries vs. domains? > - Mark Yeap. I used to get a lot of SPAM that said it was from Japan. I filtered and trashed everything that had a .JP (or .JA ?) extension and elimenated that problem. Joe From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed May 15 14:40:42 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Commodore 1541 Drive In-Reply-To: <009401c1fc40$5fa8f7a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20020515194042.50425.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > it's well to remember the "GCR" stands for group-coded-recording, which > can mean a lot of things, and that it's a form of "RLL," or > run-length-limited" encoding. Both operate in a way that generates, > typically, more transitions in the aggregate, than the original (NRZ) > data stream, but locates the transitions propitiously in a way that > limits their density so that it remains within the head-media > combination's capability to resolve those transitons accurately enough > to allow data recovery. To summarize: (from 1541 tech docs)... you can't have more than two adjacent physical zero bits on the media because the clocking of the third bit and beyond gets to be too much guesswork. You can't have too many (7? 8?) one bits in a row because that triggers the circuit I described earlier that detects start of header data. Remember, also, that it's a serial bit stream, so the zeros or ones of one GCR group have to be considered when placed next to any other GCR group, front or back. The GCR used by Commdore is a 5-to-4 arrangement - five bits on the disks (32 possibilities) are used to encode 4 data bits (16 possibilities). I don't have the docs right in front of me, but I think I can take a stab at what patterns aren't used just based on following those two rules above Too many 0s in front, back or middle... 00000 00001 00010 00011 00100 00101 00110 00111 01000 01100 10000 10001 10100 11000 11100 Too many 1s in front, back or middle... 11111 Good patterns 01001 01010 01011 01101 01110 01111 10010 10011 10101 10110 10111 11001 11010 11011 11101 11110 If I had a copy of "Inside the 1541" or the like, I'd look it up, but I don't have one in front of me. Essentally, the disk stores those GCR codes and the 1541 processor translates buffers back and forth manually, kinda like an Amiga with MFM, but without a coprocessor. > That leaves LOTS of room, and it's in this room where both the Apple > scheme and the Commodore scheme live. Agreed. I do not know how Apple does it. At least the 1541 converts GCR<->binary in software. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed May 15 14:43:13 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [OT] Emabrgoed Domains In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020515194313.35431.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mark Tapley wrote: > > >From: Ethan Dicks > ^^^^^^^^^ > >I understand the sentiment, but that hoses me. I work for one of those > >guys (I'm not admitting which one here - company policy)... > > Ummm.... > BZZZZZZZT. I don't send to this list from my company account (and it is company policy to not admit in online fora where we work, lest we be on the receiving end of hostility. It's not just a disclaimer of representation) -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From dougq at iglou.com Wed May 15 14:49:09 2002 From: dougq at iglou.com (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: scanners & circuit boards... Message-ID: <000701c1fc49$94a8b0e0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > What's everyone's thoughts on placing circuit boards directly > on the bed of a scanner for imaging? Any possibility of damage to > the board from the light or other parts of the scanner? I've done it > before with good results but not with anything truly unique. I've only done it once, with an unpopulated 8051 controller board I'd bought a few of from some guy's widow... I tried to buy the rights, but she wanted too much. I like the controller and when I run out (two more left, I think), I'll re-do the art. Not for commercial use, of course, and I may send the widow some bucks anyhow... -dq From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed May 15 14:47:23 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] RE: [CCTECH] test not to [CCTALK] Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467958@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Jay, or some other list admin here... Is the delay, of messages from cctech getting posted to cctalk, intentional? Okay, after that downpour of cross-posts... the delay is shorter. I assume that's due to server processing? Just curious... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From dougq at iglou.com Wed May 15 14:51:48 2002 From: dougq at iglou.com (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] test not to [CCTALK] Message-ID: <000f01c1fc49$f35c5010$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Your test received here on CCTALK a-ok, intended or not... -dq From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed May 15 14:55:50 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] delays in posting Message-ID: <003101c1fc4a$83ab8500$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Most people aren't seeing delays in postings appearing on the list, but some are... here's why... You have to put from the exact email address that you are subscribed with. If you mail server is munging that for some reason, the posts are considered to be from non-subscribers and I have to manually approve them, hence the delay. More to the point, I'm getting a few list members posts for moderation every time, because they apparently have a problem with the BCC or CC fields. I am not sure what's going on with that, but it only affects certain list members. Until I get some time (later today or tomorrow perhaps) to dig into exactly why that happens, those users posts will be slow because I have to approve them. I do check for posts needing approval VERY frequently during the day and night, but with the current workload still working on the list setup, this isn't probably quite as frequent as those affected list members might like. I'm trying! Jay West From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed May 15 15:15:50 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... In-Reply-To: <02May15.142407edt.119061@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 May 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > What's everyone's thoughts on placing circuit boards directly on the > bed of a scanner for imaging? Any possibility of damage to the board > from the light or other parts of the scanner? I've done it before > with good results but not with anything truly unique. I'd be more concerned with accidentally scratching the glass bed of the scanner due to sharp component leads. I guess that there is a slight possibility of degrading the contents of an EPROM if its window isn't covered. The fluorescent tube the scanner uses to illuminate the bed really shouldn't be emitting too much in the way of UV or near UV light though. Other than UV erasable components that don't have their window covered, I can't think of anything else I'd be concerned about. -Toth From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed May 15 15:10:41 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] Keycap cleaning strategy References: <10474797302.20020515120000@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3CE2C0C1.B5E263F9@jetnet.ab.ca> Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > > I'm going to clean a Sun 3 keyboard today. Its keycaps are filthy. The > strategy I've used in the past for the keycaps is: Better make sure you know what cap goes where first! :) -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed May 15 15:03:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] Re: IBM Series/1 In-Reply-To: <3CDE9438.164542B4@allwest.net> Message-ID: <20020515200300.53807.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Martin Marshall wrote: > I've run into an IBM Series/1 computer available for the hauling. I > need advice as to whether it is worth saving. Space is somewhat tight > and it is a large rack (requiring 220 VAC), printer and, supposedly, a > console terminal. Relevant part numbers are: > > 4955 IBM Processor, Series/1 > 4963 IBM Disk Subsystem > 4965 IBM Diskette Drive and I/O Expansion Unit > 4975 Printer > > The computer was released around 1976... > > Anybody have... war stories, links or other information on this old > beast? Not directly, but indirectly... I used to make/sell bisync communiations boards. Our last product was for the VAXBI. One of the few customers in the late 1980s who *wanted* such a product was a auto parts mfgr in WI that needed to submit purchase orders to WalMart, K-Mart and the DoD electronically over EDI (Electronic Document Interchange). As it turned out at the time, the standard underlying protocol for exchanging these 80-col strictly-formatted text files was the IBM 3780 protocol. It breathed one last puff of new life into the place I worked. The customer bought a brand new, expensive VAXBI serial board, software, license *and* installation. It was my week in the barrel. I go up to Fond-du-Lac, WI, at the southern tip of Lake Winnebago (no kidding) and install our product. It rolls over and dies. We had been selling 3780 products since I was in grade school, long before I ever worked there. It's not a difficult protocol to get right, unlike HASP, which has some subtleties. You have one input stream, one output stream, and that's it (HASP supports 4 printers, 4 readers, console, etc., etc.). We were very surprised that our product could not establish a session with the host on the other end of the modem, an EDI service run by IBM itself, kinda of a private dial-up WAN for purchase orders. You are probably wondering why this is relevant... the central "host" was a Series/1. IBM had managed to violate its' own 40-year-old protocol when some engineering group ported the 3780 protocol to it. We had the IBM docs for a *real* workstation, IBM part number 3780 (I still have them!) and we were doing exactly the right thing. We, of course, to keep the customer, modified our product with a config parameter to talk to a "broken" central host. I don't think I got one support call per month from those guys. They were very happy with our stuff. Ran like a top. I think they only ever called when they upgraded VMS and needed new programs linked against the latest VMS Kernel (every major version IIRC) So... I've done battle with a Series/1, regrouped and won. Never saw the enemy, though. Just heard it whistle... -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From rschaefe at gcfn.org Wed May 15 15:24:05 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <65119.128.146.70.179.1021494245.squirrel@www.gcfn.org> > On Wed, 15 May 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >> What's everyone's thoughts on placing circuit boards directly on the >> bed of a scanner for imaging? Any possibility of damage to the board >> from the light or other parts of the scanner? I've done it before >> with good results but not with anything truly unique. > > I'd be more concerned with accidentally scratching the glass bed of the > scanner due to sharp component leads. I guess that there is a slight > possibility of degrading the contents of an EPROM if its window isn't > covered. The fluorescent tube the scanner uses to illuminate the bed > really shouldn't be emitting too much in the way of UV or near UV light > though. Other than UV erasable components that don't have their window > covered, I can't think of anything else I'd be concerned about. The scans of the SIMMs I'm searching for, located at http://www.yubyub.net/ratio (plug, plug, plug!), were made on a $40 UMAX 32 bit scanner with the bundled software. I haven't had any trouble with scratches on the glass, but I do excersize a small amount of care, and don't slide things around. Also, at $40 a pop, who cares. It's easily replaced. > > -Toth > Bob From geoffr at zipcon.net Wed May 15 15:11:03 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] TRS-80 Floppies In-Reply-To: <0205151206410F.00521@simon> References: <3CE291BC.3C0E5963@adelphia.net> <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467918@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> <3CE291BC.3C0E5963@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020515131023.00a907c0@mail.zipcon.net> Um, it may use Ds/DD 8" floppies... my model 12 and 16 did. At 12:06 PM 5/15/02 -0500, you wrote: >I have a RadioShack TRS-80 Model II with 8" floppy drives. I *believe* it >takes SS/SD disks, but can someone confirm this? Does it required >hard-sectored disks? > >I'm trying to find some 8" floppies to work in this machine. > >Also, if anyone has TRSDOS or any other software for the TRS-80 line on 8" >floppies, would you let me know? I'd be interested in getting some copies. > >I believe the drive *inside* the machine is a Shugart, but the 3 drives in >the extra drive pack extension, I have no idea. > >Thanks, >Tarsi >210 >_______________________________________________ >cctalk mailing list >cctalk@classiccmp.org >http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed May 15 15:37:28 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... In-Reply-To: <65119.128.146.70.179.1021494245.squirrel@www.gcfn.org> References: <65119.128.146.70.179.1021494245.squirrel@www.gcfn.org> Message-ID: >The scans of the SIMMs I'm searching for, located at >http://www.yubyub.net/ratio (plug, plug, plug!), were made on a $40 UMAX 32 >bit scanner with the bundled software. I haven't had any trouble with >scratches on the glass, but I do excersize a small amount of care, and >don't slide things around. Also, at $40 a pop, who cares. It's easily >replaced. I've scanned my VIM-1 in the past, but that's really the only board I've tried it with. I was thinking of doing a direct scan of the Be prototype video card though to get maximum detail but was a bit concerned with putting a unique board like that on the scanner without fully knowing what risks, if any, there would be. It wouldn't be so easily replaced! Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From univac2 at earthlink.net Wed May 15 15:49:30 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] Keycap cleaning strategy In-Reply-To: <3CE2C0C1.B5E263F9@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: on 5/15/02 3:10 PM, Ben Franchuk at bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca wrote: >> I'm going to clean a Sun 3 keyboard today. Its keycaps are filthy. The >> strategy I've used in the past for the keycaps is: > > Better make sure you know what cap goes where first! :) You definitely want to be sure of that! I was cleaning the keycaps on a Honeywell keyboard, of which I had several, and so I just popped the caps off the keyboard I was cleaning, and then realized that each keyboard had a slightly different layout, and I couldn't use one of the other keyboards as a model for the keycap layout of the one I was cleaning. To top it all off, when I finally got the keycaps back on in the right places, I discovered that the keyboard was broken. Out of seven keyboards, I managed to pick the broken one. -- Owen Robertson From donm at cts.com Wed May 15 15:52:17 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] TRS-80 Floppies In-Reply-To: <0205151206410F.00521@simon> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 May 2002, Tarsi wrote: > I have a RadioShack TRS-80 Model II with 8" floppy drives. I *believe* it > takes SS/SD disks, but can someone confirm this? Does it required > hard-sectored disks? > > I'm trying to find some 8" floppies to work in this machine. > > Also, if anyone has TRSDOS or any other software for the TRS-80 line on 8" > floppies, would you let me know? I'd be interested in getting some copies. > > I believe the drive *inside* the machine is a Shugart, but the 3 drives in > the extra drive pack extension, I have no idea. If all of the drives are the full height configuration, it is highly likely that they are single sided. There were some field conversions that installed a pair of half high drives in the computer box in place of the single full height, but these were not totally satisfactory in that the disk did not spin continuously as with the full height drive. This usually meant an error message and a delay in reading. The half high drives were double sided, by the way. - don > Thanks, > Tarsi > 210 > _______________________________________________ > cctalk mailing list > cctalk@classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed May 15 15:57:58 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: [CCTECH] Keycap cleaning strategy In-Reply-To: "[CCTALK] Re: [CCTECH] Keycap cleaning strategy" (May 15, 14:11) References: <20020515181147.EVOP8262.imf18bis.bellsouth.net@localhost> Message-ID: <10205152157.ZM12476@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 15, 14:11, wrote: > > > I'm going to clean a Sun 3 keyboard today. Its keycaps are filthy. The > > strategy I've used in the past for the keycaps is: [...] > > I have a dishwasher, but I don't trust it. > > I've had pretty good luck cleaning the caps on Sun keyboards without removing them. By using a good quality commercial spray cleaner sprayed on a cloth, you can get them looking almost like new. If they were really bad, I could see taking them off and soaking them. > > The dishwasher would be a bad idea. You could easily end up with a bunch of little bits of melted plastic and a broken dishwasher. I've done it with a bowl of warm water and the sort of low-foam detergent used for cleaning floors, then a rinse. I've also done it with the sort of spray cleaner used for kitchen worktops. Either way, many of the caps usually need some rubbing with a cloth or fingers -- if they're dirty enough to need cleaned, they need some help. I often add a little water-based furniture polish at the end to help give them a nice sheen I wouldn't use a dishwasher. The water temperature isn't a problem, but the caps are just too small and light to stay where you put them, and if one falls beside the heating element, it will be destroyed. If I'm *really* lazy, I tie them up in a pillowcase and put them in the (clothes) washing machine, and follow up with the tumble drier. No.1 tip: make a note of the layout before you take the keycaps off. It all looks very logical until you actually try to put *every one* of the symbol keys back in the right place. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed May 15 16:21:40 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] HD repair techniques? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 15 May 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > repair it with. The second drive has a bad head, but it affects one of the > > lower platters. I've never had to replace a head before, so I'm looking > > for advice, or even a step by step guide to replacing it. I'm starting to think the head assembly of that second drive might not be bad. The platters seem to spin at too high of speed, which makes me wonder if the spindle motor is bad. That drive's logic board checked out ok on yet another drive, so I know that much of it is good. It also (according to the date written on it) failed right at 2 years after it was manufactured. I think those particular drives actually had a 3 year warranty on them, so I guess someone didn't know to send it in for a replacement (it was marked 'bad' when I got it.) > > The drives are both a Conner CFS1275A, 1.2GB, 3 platters, 6 surfaces. I'm > > starting to suspect the top surface of the upper platter is the servo > > surface, due to the behavior of the drive when it failed. Can anyone > > confirm if this is the case, or if these type of drive even use a servo > > My guess is that these drives use 'embedded servos'. Basically, the > servo bursts are in the sector headers on each surface -- there is no > dedicated servo surface. The DEC RL01 is an early and understandable > example. So if your top platter is unreadable, the servo will not lock > when you try to read that surface, and this may be enough to cause the > drive to spin down. That makes sense. Do you think these drives stripe data across the platters, or would data be more "randomly" placed? Would a drive normally start from the top side of the top platter and go towards the bottom of the stack, or do some drives use a more "random" scheme? I'm wondering if there is anything left to recover with one side of one platter badly damaged. > I have to tell you that what you are doing is a 'challenge'. The > flying height on such drives is much lower than on the older > winchesters that some of us have repaired at home (== you need a much > better 'clean box' to avoid further headcrashes). Also, there's > generally no procedure for aligning the head. The heads are assembled > at the factory, then the head arm is connected to a formatter > (basically a very accurate stepper system :-)), then the tracks and > servo bursts are written. There is no easy way to replace a head and > get it aligned with the existing tracks. I'm not one to bow out to such a 'challenge', though if I don't feel comfortable in doing the work, I'll sometimes set things aside until I have more information or better tools to work with. How clean will the air need to be? Since I don't plan to use the drive long-term, as long as it will hold up for about an hour or so, I'll be happy. What about dust and debris caused by the initial head crash? Is it likely the scratches on the platter will damage a new head, or is there something I'll need to do to prevent that? Would it be possible to replace the entire head assembly with that from another (possibly working) drive? Would that have a better shot at keeping the heads aligned? Anyone have a dead CFS1275A that just has a damaged logic board? (Preferably one of the earlier versions with the green Conner sticker, and close to a 9532 date code.) I started going through the classiccmp archives for posts on this topic, but it is very hard to sort out all the bits of information. Is anyone aware of a faq/guide online somewhere that covers this sort of thing? -Toth From rmurphy at itm-inst.com Wed May 15 16:14:13 2002 From: rmurphy at itm-inst.com (Rick Murphy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Test post and DEC Unix question In-Reply-To: <20020515162849.20475.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020514191912.00a34ec0@mail.itm-inst.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020515170116.00a82820@mail.itm-inst.com> At 09:28 AM 5/15/02 -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote: >--- Rick Murphy wrote: > > At 03:49 PM 5/14/02 -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > >I'm trying to break into (my own) DEC Alpha running Digital Unix V3.2... > > > Use: > > >>> b -flags 0,1 dkc0 > >Why the 0? I did this (Thanks, Doc!) The command I learned is "-flags 0,1". The first digit sets the root being booted, the second is a bitmap where the "1" bit means conversational boot. (See the VMS ALPHA FAQ.) However, "-flags 1" usually works just as well; I just learned the long way back when I worked on DEC UNIX. > >>> b dkc0 -flags 1 > >... and I got in just fine. > > > Once you're in single-user mode, "mount -r /" to remount the root... > >Right. I know what to do once I'm in. The only thing that threw me >about Digital Unix vs other stuff I've used is that if you _don't_ >use vipw to edit the passwd file, you have to manually run mkpasswd >to update the hashed password file (I'm used to a shadow file, or, >for older stuff, _just_ the /etc/passwd file and nothing else). Right. That's why I suggested mounting everything and using "passwd" :-) > > ...mount -a to get everything mounted... > >In my experience, if you intend to go from single-user mode to >multi-user (i.e., you don't reboot from single-user), it's >safest to not leave anything mounted that isn't mounted when >you got your prompt. True. I usually fix the password and reboot to avoid the startup problems. Arguably, your approach of cleaning up what you changed then exiting the shell will get you back running faster. -Rick From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed May 15 16:29:35 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: [CCTECH] Keycap cleaning strategy In-Reply-To: <10205152157.ZM12476@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 May 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > I wouldn't use a dishwasher. The water temperature isn't a problem, > but the caps are just too small and light to stay where you put them, > and if one falls beside the heating element, it will be destroyed. If all the proper precautions were taken (such as putting the keycaps in a screen container, and turning off the heat-dry cycle), a dishwasher might do fine. For a small number of keyboards, however it is easier to clean them by hand. I do wash my day to day keyboard mechs and housings every few years in the dishwasher, but their keys are more captive than those in some of the earlier keyboard designs. > If I'm *really* lazy, I tie them up in a pillowcase and put them in > the (clothes) washing machine, and follow up with the tumble drier. That would likely be a bad idea, since the keys would scratch against each other. Worst case, all of the lettering would be removed, and best case would be a few scratches and dings. > No.1 tip: make a note of the layout before you take the keycaps off. > It all looks very logical until you actually try to put *every one* of > the symbol keys back in the right place. Or take a digital photo of the keyboard, or make sure you have an exact duplicate keyboard. Grid/graph paper can be very helpful when writing down a layout too. -Toth From allain at panix.com Wed May 15 16:47:17 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Keycap cleaning strategy References: <10474797302.20020515120000@subatomix.com> <20020515170557.GL14520@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <00bd01c1fc5a$157aa560$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Windex and a Qtip for me, even with removable keycaps. The windex goes on the Qtip, not directly on the keys. John A. From sipke at wxs.nl Wed May 15 16:50:20 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] transistor counts again References: <3CE283B4.2F2F4A12@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <009d01c1fc5a$82650800$030101ac@boll.casema.net> The SC/MP does have web-representation but I dunno the transistor count (yet) I'll start searching for that number.... In the mean time you can play with a SC/MP emulator: http://xgistor.ath.cx/scmp.htm Sipke de Wal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Franchuk" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 5:50 PM Subject: [CCTALK] transistor counts again > Looking for information on 16x4 ram (74F219), I came across the the > discussion of how many transistors are in a 6502. Did anybody ever > get a answer to that? A simple 16 bit cpu like the the toy/2 runs > at about 3300 transitors. A a simple stack machine about 3500???. > Does anybody have the transistor count for the PDP-8 chip 6100? > or the forgotton PACE-16 cpu by national. The SCAMP and PACE chips > don't seem to have a web page up anywhere on the web! > -- > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html > _______________________________________________ > cctalk mailing list > cctalk@classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk From sloboyko at yahoo.com Wed May 15 17:04:13 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Keycap cleaning strategy In-Reply-To: <00bd01c1fc5a$157aa560$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20020515220413.31395.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com> I've found that _yellowing_ is a worse problem than cleaning. (EXTREME WARNING: Use the following techniques only on DOUBLE-SHOT molded keytops. If you don't know what this is, you shouldn't be doing this.) I simply take a picture of the keyboard, remove the keycaps, soak 'em in Formula 409, and replace them if they are just dirty. If they are yellowed, here's how I dealt with a severely yellowed Hazeltine 1000 keyboard (the keys were actually BROWN, not ivory): 1. Took pic and removed keycaps. 2. Used 400 grit wet or dry sandpaper on keycap sides, placing sandpaper on flat suface. 3. I couldn't use the sandpaper on the tops because of the indentation, so I got a tiny Dremel wire brush and removed the top layer (very carefully, without gouging or misshaping the keytop). 4. Got a buffer wheel for my drill and some automotive rubbing compound and buffed the keys back to like-new condition! 5. Replaced keys according to picture. --- John Allain wrote: > Windex and a Qtip for me, even with removable > keycaps. > The windex goes on the Qtip, not directly on the > keys. > > John A. > > _______________________________________________ > cctalk mailing list > cctalk@classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From edick at idcomm.com Wed May 15 17:04:27 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Commodore 1541 Drive References: <20020515194042.50425.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004301c1fc5c$7b144000$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The ways in which Apple and Commodore do it are well documented today. Back in the '80's it was much easier to think of it as a table lookup. Some controllers used a more conventional approach, i.e. using a standard controller\formatter to generate the track format, then writing the data fields in a different modulation, simply substituting the input/output from one serializer/deserializer for another for a precisely prescribed bit count. On floppy disk interfaces, the data rate was plenty slow enough to allow that sort of thing. I personally preferred the table lookup. That enabled me to put half-again the usual amount of data on the disk simply by looking up the 5-bit pattern corresponding to each 4-bits of data. The resulting data could be written at nearly twice the data rate, resulting in an 8:5 appreciation in capacity. Various RLL schemes work that way. That's why the RLL controllers provide 9/5 the capacity Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [CCTALK] Commodore 1541 Drive > > --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > > it's well to remember the "GCR" stands for group-coded-recording, which > > can mean a lot of things, and that it's a form of "RLL," or > > run-length-limited" encoding. Both operate in a way that generates, > > typically, more transitions in the aggregate, than the original (NRZ) > > data stream, but locates the transitions propitiously in a way that > > limits their density so that it remains within the head-media > > combination's capability to resolve those transitons accurately enough > > to allow data recovery. > > To summarize: (from 1541 tech docs)... you can't have more than two > adjacent physical zero bits on the media because the clocking of the > third bit and beyond gets to be too much guesswork. You can't have > too many (7? 8?) one bits in a row because that triggers the circuit > I described earlier that detects start of header data. Remember, also, > that it's a serial bit stream, so the zeros or ones of one GCR group > have to be considered when placed next to any other GCR group, front > or back. > > The GCR used by Commdore is a 5-to-4 arrangement - five bits on the > disks (32 possibilities) are used to encode 4 data bits (16 possibilities). > > I don't have the docs right in front of me, but I think I can take a stab > at what patterns aren't used just based on following those two rules above > > Too many 0s in front, back or middle... > > 00000 00001 00010 00011 00100 00101 00110 00111 > 01000 01100 10000 10001 10100 11000 11100 > > Too many 1s in front, back or middle... > > 11111 > > Good patterns > > 01001 01010 01011 01101 01110 01111 10010 10011 > 10101 10110 10111 11001 11010 11011 11101 11110 > > If I had a copy of "Inside the 1541" or the like, I'd look it up, but I > don't have one in front of me. Essentally, the disk stores those GCR > codes and the 1541 processor translates buffers back and forth manually, > kinda like an Amiga with MFM, but without a coprocessor. > > > That leaves LOTS of room, and it's in this room where both the Apple > > scheme and the Commodore scheme live. > > Agreed. I do not know how Apple does it. At least the 1541 converts > GCR<->binary in software. > > -ethan > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience > http://launch.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > cctalk mailing list > cctalk@classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > > From edick at idcomm.com Wed May 15 17:07:24 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... References: <02May15.133834edt.119061@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> <02May15.142407edt.119061@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <005d01c1fc5c$e4c9b660$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> So long as you cover the windows of any UV-eraseable parts with somethng truly opaque, e.g. a bit of aluminum foil under some cellophane tape,I think you'll be OK, Jeff. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 12:09 PM Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... > What's everyone's thoughts on placing circuit boards directly > on the bed of a scanner for imaging? Any possibility of damage to > the board from the light or other parts of the scanner? I've done it > before with good results but not with anything truly unique. > > Jeff > -- > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.cchaven.com > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > _______________________________________________ > cctech mailing list > cctech@classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech > _______________________________________________ > cctalk mailing list > cctalk@classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > > From allain at panix.com Wed May 15 17:05:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] test failed? References: <3.0.6.16.20020515133512.49cf00c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <001601c1fc36$18250f40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <015401c1fc5c$8f6a8c80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Test failed? The results of my test, where 1 message was sent to cctech, are below. Also, do we really needed added footers at all? To: Subject: [CCTECH] test not to [CCTALK] footer 1 : cctech mailing list OK, as expected To: Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] test not to [CCTALK] footer 1: cctech mailing list footer 2 : cctalk mailing list Unexpected: Two header decorations, Two footers That's three total header decorations on two messages. One per would be enough for me, and possibly one Only for the tech-to-talk crosspost would suffice. John A. From foo at siconic.com Wed May 15 17:17:12 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: [CCTECH] test In-Reply-To: <009c01c1fc47$6b723950$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 May 2002, Jay West wrote: > Sellam wrote.... > > Same here. Everything's been coming from cctalk, even on-topic messages. > > > > I think something is broken. > > no, messages from cctech ARE making it to cctalk, I just saw a bunch go > through. They are the ones with dual list subjects... ie. [CCTALK] [CCTECH] The "[CCTALK] [CCTECH]" label is a tad cumbersome. I understand the purpose behind it but it tends to start making the subject messy, especially when we start replying to messages (see the subject for this message for example). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed May 15 17:34:15 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] transistor counts again References: <3CE283B4.2F2F4A12@jetnet.ab.ca> <009d01c1fc5a$82650800$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: <3CE2E267.DE980B7E@jetnet.ab.ca> Sipke de Wal wrote: > In the mean time you can play with > a SC/MP emulator: > > http://xgistor.ath.cx/scmp.htm Nice emulator. Thanks again. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed May 15 16:22:05 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Subject Lines In-Reply-To: from "Jay West" at May 15, 2002 02:33:41 PM Message-ID: <200205152122.g4FLM5E16930@shell1.aracnet.com> > no, messages from cctech ARE making it to cctalk, I just saw a bunch go > through. They are the ones with dual list subjects... ie. [CCTALK] [CCTECH] > > Jay West Can the [CCTALK] & [CCTECH] be shortened to something that does't take up most of the the viewable subject line? I read most CLASSICCMP mail via 'elm' and I'm not seeing enough of the subject to get any idea what the message is about. Also, do we really need to see both on dual list messages? Zane From celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk Wed May 15 17:52:24 2002 From: celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Subject Lines References: <200205152122.g4FLM5E16930@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3CE2E6A8.320725E1@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > Can the [CCTALK] & [CCTECH] be shortened to something that does't > take up most of the the viewable subject line? I'd like to vote to get rid of them altogether. I'm quite capable of filtering list mail into folders without them. From univac2 at earthlink.net Wed May 15 18:08:24 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Subject Lines In-Reply-To: <3CE2E6A8.320725E1@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> Message-ID: on 5/15/02 5:52 PM, Paul Williams at celigne@celigne.freeserve.co.uk wrote: > "Zane H. Healy" wrote: >> >> Can the [CCTALK] & [CCTECH] be shortened to something that does't >> take up most of the the viewable subject line? > > I'd like to vote to get rid of them altogether. I'm quite capable of > filtering list mail into folders without them. I agree. They they take up too much of the subject line, and they really don't help filter the messages. -- Owen Robertson From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed May 15 18:07:24 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Subject Lines In-Reply-To: from "Paul Williams" at May 15, 2002 11:52:24 PM Message-ID: <200205152307.g4FN7Oc23391@shell1.aracnet.com> > > Can the [CCTALK] & [CCTECH] be shortened to something that does't > > take up most of the the viewable subject line? > > I'd like to vote to get rid of them altogether. I'm quite capable of > filtering list mail into folders without them. I would agree. On my Mac I had filters setup to deal with CLASSICCMP, and under 'elm', the long subject lines are a nightmare. Zane From foo at siconic.com Wed May 15 18:07:07 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Commodore 1541 Drive In-Reply-To: <20020515194042.50425.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 May 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > The GCR used by Commdore is a 5-to-4 arrangement - five bits on the > disks (32 possibilities) are used to encode 4 data bits (16 possibilities). Very similar to how the Apple disk drive works. But the description of encoding is different (though the mechanism probably the same). On the Apple we have 6&2 encoding and 4&4. What this means is that 6 bits of an 8-bit byte are stored in one group of data inside a sector and the remaining 2-bits are shared with the remaining 2-bits of 2 other bytes (to come up with another 6-bit value). A translation table is used to map the 6-bit value to an 8-bit value than can be legally written onto disk. > I don't have the docs right in front of me, but I think I can take a stab > at what patterns aren't used just based on following those two rules above > > Too many 0s in front, back or middle... > > 00000 00001 00010 00011 00100 00101 00110 00111 > 01000 01100 10000 10001 10100 11000 11100 > > Too many 1s in front, back or middle... > > 11111 > > Good patterns > > 01001 01010 01011 01101 01110 01111 10010 10011 > 10101 10110 10111 11001 11010 11011 11101 11110 The translation table contains 8-bit bytes that would generally be equivalent to what Ethan has posted. I.E. bytes that do not violate the rule that no more than two consecutive zero bits can be written and no more than (some number) of one bits (I am not quite sure how many consecutive 1-bits are legal on the Apple Disk ][, or if there is a limitation. I know that there are special bytes called "sync bytes" that are 8 1-bits followed by two 0-bits, the idea being that a mess of them are written at the beginning of a track and the beginning of sectors, so that no matter where they begin being read, they will always eventually "sync up" to a pattern of eight 1-bits followed by two 0-bits). The 4&4 encoding is simple. One 8-bit byte is stored inside two 8-bit bytes. Each bit of the byte is interleaved inside a series of 1 bits. So for example, the value 10001100 which contains at least one obvious example of an illegal bit string would be encoded as such: 11101010 11111010 ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ 1 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 This is how sector header and trailer data is written on an Apple ][ formatted disk. > If I had a copy of "Inside the 1541" or the like, I'd look it up, but I > don't have one in front of me. Essentally, the disk stores those GCR > codes and the 1541 processor translates buffers back and forth manually, > kinda like an Amiga with MFM, but without a coprocessor. The same thing goes on in Apple DOS and ProDOS, except it's all done in software (in the main machine). The equivalent reference book would be _Beneath Apple DOS_ or _Beneath Apple ProDOS_ both by Quality Software, and both highly recommended. Also, the manual for Bag of Tricks (an excellent early disk repair tool) has lots of relevant and very worthwhile information. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed May 15 18:13:21 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] test failed? In-Reply-To: <015401c1fc5c$8f6a8c80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 May 2002, John Allain wrote: > Also, do we really needed added footers at all? I must concur. I don't fancy the added footers. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed May 15 18:15:35 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Subject Lines In-Reply-To: <3CE2E6A8.320725E1@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 May 2002, Paul Williams wrote: > "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > > > Can the [CCTALK] & [CCTECH] be shortened to something that does't > > take up most of the the viewable subject line? > > I'd like to vote to get rid of them altogether. I'm quite capable of > filtering list mail into folders without them. I'd have to second this motion. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed May 15 18:26:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] OT? (was: Commodore 1541 Drive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I thought that cctalk was supposed to have all of the off-topic stuff. But, with the arguable exception of some silliness about processors being named after how many transistors they have, it has been all ON topic! Where is Dick when we need him? BTW, I'll second the recommendation of Beneath Apple-Dos. It really saved me when I was trying to figure out the Apple GCR for writing the Apple Turnover software. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed May 15 18:39:25 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Be picture posted In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If anyone is interested in the scan I did of the Be prototype's video card, it can be found at: http://www.geocities.com/j_hellige/images/hobbit_video.jpg It's a JPG (roughly 800x600) converted/downgraded from a 600dpi TIFF. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 15 18:03:58 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] transistor counts again In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at May 15, 2 09:53:59 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 491 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020516/71ced7a1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 15 18:17:04 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] Keycap cleaning strategy In-Reply-To: <10474797302.20020515120000@subatomix.com> from "Jeffrey Sharp" at May 15, 2 12:00:00 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1041 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020516/2511c30d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 15 18:22:14 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... In-Reply-To: <02May15.142407edt.119061@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> from "Jeff Hellige" at May 15, 2 02:09:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 692 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020516/50101055/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 15 18:26:25 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] RE: [CCTECH] TRS-80 Model 1 In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at May 15, 2 12:21:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 651 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020516/db71c65d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 15 18:36:11 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] HD repair techniques? In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at May 15, 2 04:21:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3847 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020516/fa46e9e7/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed May 15 18:54:51 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Be picture posted In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > If anyone is interested in the scan I did of the Be >prototype's video card, it can be found at: > > http://www.geocities.com/j_hellige/images/hobbit_video.jpg > > It's a JPG (roughly 800x600) converted/downgraded from a 600dpi TIFF. Sometimes I hate Geocities....this one should work better: http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757/images/hobbit_video.jpg Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From fmc at reanimators.org Wed May 15 18:38:21 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: Subject Lines In-Reply-To: "Zane H. Healy"'s message of "Wed, 15 May 2002 14:22:05 -0700 (PDT)" References: <200205152122.g4FLM5E16930@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <200205152338.g4FNcLcG040092@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > Can the [CCTALK] & [CCTECH] be shortened to something that does't take up > most of the the viewable subject line? I read most CLASSICCMP mail via Yesterday I sent Jay e-mail about subject tags and footers, and he wrote back that he'd look at them when he got a chance. -Frank McConnell From edick at idcomm.com Wed May 15 18:56:43 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] transistor counts again References: Message-ID: <006f01c1fc6c$2a589340$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I'd agree, though I have serious doubts about that number being in any sense reflective of the number of transistors in the device. Remember that a state-of-the-art CPU in 1979 (that humungous HP thing) claimed to have 400K+ transistors on it if the newspaper reports are to be believed. During that same timespan, I understood that IBM was quietly putting 1M gates in their in-house production gate arrays and in 1"-square packages with 80 pins, for example. Density of packaging and of geometry didn't seem to stand in their way. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 5:03 PM Subject: Re: [CCTALK] transistor counts again > > Yeah. > > The 4004 was once rumored to have been named that because it had the > > equivalent of 4004 transistors. > > I find that hard to believe. The 4004 was part of a chipset containing > the 4001 (ROM), 4002 (RAM) and 4003 (I forget exactly what, some kind of > I/O?). The 4001 and 4002 parts were used in lots of 4004 or 4040-based > designs. > > > THAT is what probably gave rise to the 68000 silliness. > > It's MUCH more impressive what was done with only 486! > > That's 80486, surely :-) > > -tony > _______________________________________________ > cctalk mailing list > cctalk@classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed May 15 18:58:12 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] transistor counts again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 16 May 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > Yeah. > > The 4004 was once rumored to have been named that because it had the > > equivalent of 4004 transistors. > I find that hard to believe. The 4004 was part of a chipset containing > the 4001 (ROM), 4002 (RAM) and 4003 (I forget exactly what, some kind of > I/O?). The 4001 and 4002 parts were used in lots of 4004 or 4040-based > designs. I never believed it. But is one of those pieces of bogus lore that keeps resurfacing. > > It's MUCH more impressive what was done with only 486! > That's 80486, surely :-) For intel. But what about the Cyrix 486SLC, AMD K6, etc? :-) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed May 15 18:46:49 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] Orlando junkfest, anybody want a Sony MO drive? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020515184649.434fd7c6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I have a Sony SMO_D501 MO drive with the separate C501 controller card all mounted in a case with PS. Does anyone that's coming to the junkfest want it? If I don't hear from a taker by morning it's going in the trash. Joe _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From mbg at TheWorld.com Wed May 15 17:01:23 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... References: <02May15.133834edt.119061@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <200205152201.SAA2506716@shell.TheWorld.com> Many of the scans of Qbus boards for the visual field guide were done by me on a scanner... I experienced no problems. The only thing I think you really need to keep in mind is being very careful putting the boards down on the scanner glass... you don't want to have scratches all over it. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From foo at siconic.com Wed May 15 17:15:17 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] RE: [CCTECH] TRS-80 Model 1 In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467957@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 May 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Well, not really. cctech is moderated, to help block spam, and > keep out the OT messages. it is also sent to cctalk, so everyone can see > all the messages. cctalk is just that. A big room full of conversations > that go anywhere... Wait a second. So if I'm in CCTECH and I post a message, it then goes to both lists. Fine. But what if people in CCTALK start replying to it and begin a thread. Do those messages go back to CCTECH or CCTALK? Jay, I've CC'd you on this since I think it's a relevant question for you. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From lists at subatomix.com Wed May 15 17:32:02 2002 From: lists at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] How the lists work (was: TRS-80 Model 1) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1794719008.20020515173202@subatomix.com> I bet Jay is extremely busy with this, so I'll step forward here with my best guess as to how this all works. 1) cctalk is UNmoderated for subscribers, moderated for non-subscribers 2) cctech is moderated for subscribers, moderated for non-subscribers 3) cctech posts are forwarded (auto-crossposted) to cctalk Part 3 above has an interesting side-effect. When a cctech subscriber posts a message, it triggers a moderation alert as it is forwarded over to cctalk, since the cctech subscriber is not a cctalk subscriber. This can be overcome in two ways: 1) Subscribe to cctalk. Goto the options page. Disable mail delivery. 2) Wait for Jay to fix it. -- Jeffrey Sharp The email address lists@subatomix.com is for mailing list traffic. Please send off-list mail to roach jay ess ess at wasp subatomix beetle dot com. You may need to remove some bugs first. _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From mrbill at mrbill.net Wed May 15 18:02:44 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [larrys@lexis-nexis.com: [rescue] Excellent news] Message-ID: <20020515230244.GD14520@mrbill.net> FYI, about ftp.digital.com... ----- Forwarded message from Larry Snyder ----- From: Larry Snyder To: rescue@sunhelp.org Subject: [rescue] Excellent news Reply-To: rescue@sunhelp.org Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 17:44:47 -0400 (EDT) I lifted this shamelessly from another list.... -ls- > From: Paul Vixie > Subject: Re: Off-Topic: Goodbye to ftp.digital.com? > > I have just communicated with the operators of gatekeeper.dec.com (with > whom ftp.isc.org shares a cage at PAIX) and was told two things. > > 1. HP plans to fully support gatekeeper (now that the merger is done), > and has approved a 1-Terabyte expansion to its disk storage subsystem; > > 2. ftp.digital.com is no longer the same computer as gatekeeper.dec.com, > it's a machine on the east coast somewhere. > > I've asked whether there's any problems looming for ftp.digital.com, and > I'll report back here if I hear anything. but gatekeeper.dec.com (which > I had a hand in creating back during my 1998-1993 stint at dec.com) is > absolutely safe from harm. _______________________________________________ rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Wed May 15 18:17:27 2002 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: [CCTECH] / JUNK FEST Message-ID: > > I've seen a couple of cctech messages passed over to cctalk > >as well, so I've gotten two copies of those. I also sent a message > >just to cctech earlier and it errored out for moderator approval > >because the software complained about a blind cc: being addressed to > >cctalk, though there was none included on my end. > > I got one of those too. It also said that my message was rejected but it >wasn't. I sent Jay a note about it already. OK... Now I see what's happening. I received a rejected notice earlier because I have opted out of the CCTALK list. My posts will appear in CCTECH but, not in CCTALK and I'll get a rejected notice from CCTALK for each post. I can live with that. It's certainly better than all the noise I was getting previously. To keep the message on topic: I am still undecided about the Junk fest tomorrow in Orlando. I have a potential scheduling conflict and might have to pass.. See yas, SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed May 15 19:22:20 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] scanners & circuit boards... Message-ID: <200205160022.RAA20535@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Two factors here. One is that the scanner doesn't have a lot of the right wave length light. Two is that even a piece of paper will absorb +99% of any of the UV that would erase it. As long as there is something over the windows ( almost anything ), I wouldn't worry. When I was at Intel, we placed some 1702A's in direct sun light for several weeks without data loss. A few seconds in a scanner would most likely have little effect. If you are concerned, put some black electrical tape over any windows. If you don't believe that will block the light try doing it on a separate EPROM and put it under an eraser light ( you'll see what I mean when I say that even a piece of paper is quite effective, even in a strong UV light ). >From: "Richard Erlacher" > >So long as you cover the windows of any UV-eraseable parts with somethng truly >opaque, e.g. a bit of aluminum foil under some cellophane tape,I think you'll >be OK, Jeff. > >Dick > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jeff Hellige" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 12:09 PM >Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... > > >> What's everyone's thoughts on placing circuit boards directly >> on the bed of a scanner for imaging? Any possibility of damage to >> the board from the light or other parts of the scanner? I've done it >> before with good results but not with anything truly unique. >> >> Jeff >> -- >> Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File >> http://www.cchaven.com >> http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 >> _______________________________________________ >> cctech mailing list >> cctech@classiccmp.org >> http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech >> _______________________________________________ >> cctalk mailing list >> cctalk@classiccmp.org >> http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >cctalk mailing list >cctalk@classiccmp.org >http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed May 15 19:47:39 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Commodore 1541 Drive In-Reply-To: from Pat Finnegan at "May 15, 2 09:45:10 am" Message-ID: <200205160047.RAA08388@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I'm trying to get one, and wondering what success people have had with > connecting them to a PC using "X-Cables" and "Star commander" to transfer > data ( http://sta.c64.org/sc.html ). I use it all the time and it works 100%. Great utility. SC likes older PCs better due to motherboard and Windows issues (I run it on a 486DX/40 with DOS 6), but it should work okay on most modern PCs fine. > Also, is there any chance of making > a 1541 read an Apple ][ disk? I know they both use GCR encodings for > their disks, and it'd be really useful if I could read disks on my PC. Completely different encoding format as others have explained. GCR is more a philosophy than a true encoding standard. That being said, since the 1541 is an intelligent peripheral I suppose you could reprogram it to read Apple floppies, but this would require a lot of work and is certainly beyond my non-white-hat-consciousness. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana. ------------------- From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed May 15 19:42:51 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] How the lists work (was: TRS-80 Model 1) References: <1794719008.20020515173202@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <003401c1fc72$9d27ff40$0101a8c0@jay> Jeff wrote..... ----- Original Message ----- > I bet Jay is extremely busy with this, Jeff shows a great gift for understatement. Please lets keep the requests for changes out of the picture, until I have everything smoothed out. That will take a few days or so. THEN I can entertain notions of fixing more "cosmetic" things. >so I'll step forward here with my > best guess as to how this all works. > 1) cctalk is UNmoderated for subscribers, moderated for non-subscribers > 2) cctech is moderated for subscribers, moderated for non-subscribers > 3) cctech posts are forwarded (auto-crossposted) to cctalk Jeff is absolutely correct. THANKS Jeff. > Part 3 above has an interesting side-effect. When a cctech subscriber posts > a message, it triggers a moderation alert as it is forwarded over to cctalk, > since the cctech subscriber is not a cctalk subscriber. This can be overcome > in two ways: Also correct. In due time folks.... Jay West From fmc at reanimators.org Wed May 15 19:36:00 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: Keycap cleaning strategy In-Reply-To: 's message of "Wed, 15 May 2002 14:11:47 -0400" References: <20020515181147.EVOP8262.imf18bis.bellsouth.net@localhost> Message-ID: <200205160036.g4G0a0dr041417@daemonweed.reanimators.org> I do this sort of thing for Northgate Omnikey keyboards. Two paper towels, folded on the perf, to the left of the sink. One margarine dish in the sink. Fill margarine dish with hot water. Add a little dishwashing goop (I use Palmolive because it's there). Pull some key caps from the keyboard. Put the caps in the margarine dish and swirl them around. Let them soak, while you pull the next batch of key caps. Remove and scrub with a sponge one cap at a time, shaking the cap to remove any excess water before sitting it face down on the paper towels to dry. Repeat 'til done. You'll probably need to move the paper towels (before they get too covered with caps) and fold another set, maybe twice or three times to get through the keyboard. Be careful when pulling big caps, they usually have some supporting widgetry that can go flying when the cap pops off. While the caps are drying, you should take the keyboard the rest of the way apart to blow out any dust and detritus and scrub the casework (again, dishwashing goop and water, maybe stronger stuff if needed). Let it all dry before putting it back together. Once cleaned, I generally wrap a keyboard up in a 13 gallon kitchen garbage bag to keep it mostly free of dust and critters. Cables can be coiled up inside the bag too. (Yes, I have a supply of spares... I use these keyboards!) -Frank McConnell From torquil at rockbridge.net Wed May 15 20:03:07 2002 From: torquil at rockbridge.net (Torquil MacCorkle III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] First SGI Workstations? Message-ID: <0b2501c1fc75$818e89e0$0200a8c0@tm2000> Heya, Does SGI have a timeline or anything up anywhere. I am wondering what the first SGI workstation was(R2000 right?). I know they made terminals before that, But i am just wondering about workstations. Thanks, Torquil MacCorkle III Lexington, Virginia From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed May 15 20:08:43 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: Keycap cleaning strategy In-Reply-To: <200205160036.g4G0a0dr041417@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: presumably everyone here already knows it, but just in case somebody doesn't: When cleaning keycaps on real IBM PC keyboards (5150), all of the keys EXCEPT the space bar pop off easily. But if you remove the space bar, than reassembly of the space bar is more work than the combined total of the other keys. From foo at siconic.com Wed May 15 20:32:49 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] transistor counts again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 16 May 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > I find that hard to believe. The 4004 was part of a chipset containing > the 4001 (ROM), 4002 (RAM) and 4003 (I forget exactly what, some kind of > I/O?). The 4001 and 4002 parts were used in lots of 4004 or 4040-based > designs. And according to Ted Hoff, it was quite by accident that it ended up with part number 4004. Coincidence and all. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed May 15 20:36:37 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Commodore 1541 Drive In-Reply-To: <200205160047.RAA08388@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 May 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > That being said, since the 1541 is an intelligent peripheral I suppose > you could reprogram it to read Apple floppies, but this would require a > lot of work and is certainly beyond my non-white-hat-consciousness. I remember once sticking a Commodore 64 disk into an Apple drive and using a low-level disk utility to read a track and the data did not seem to be random, unintelligible data, but in fact seemed to have some order to it. My recollection could be hazy and I could have just been seeing things way back when. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From zaft at azstarnet.com Wed May 15 20:47:48 2002 From: zaft at azstarnet.com (Gordon Zaft) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: [CCTECH] Keycap cleaning strategy In-Reply-To: <3CE2973B.DE8BEB2D@Vishay.com> References: <10474797302.20020515120000@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020515184649.0211cf10@mail.azstarnet.com> At 07:13 PM 5/15/2002 +0200, you wrote: >I usually have good success with the foam-type screen cleaner sold as >aerosol. It is meant not only for the glass part (tube itself), but also >for the housing, which is certainly made from the same material as the >keyboard. Apply as described: spray on, let soak for a while, then wipe >off with a paper towel. Admitted, this is a bit more tricky with a >keyboard than with a screen, but it is possible. > >Even moderately filthy keyboards do not require taking off the keycaps >this way, so it's a quick method. I usually supplement this with using Dust-Off or a similar compressed-air product to blow out the various kinds of gook that lurk inside. It's amazing (and disgusting!) what you'll blow out of a keyboard that way. GZ From allain at panix.com Wed May 15 21:23:30 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] First SGI Workstations? References: <0b2501c1fc75$818e89e0$0200a8c0@tm2000> Message-ID: <008201c1fc80$abd28ac0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I am wondering what the first SGI workstation was Look for a 1x6' rack system on or about 1984. IIRC John A. From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Wed May 15 22:17:46 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] List confusion? (was TRS-80 Model 1) Message-ID: <20020516031922.YZNN15548.imf02bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Sellam Ismail > Err, you're right. This new list is too confusing. Hmm, the idea as I understood it was pretty simple. cctalk gets everything, cctech has the OTs filtered out. Right? Glen 0/0 From fmc at reanimators.org Wed May 15 22:09:49 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: Keycap cleaning strategy In-Reply-To: "Fred Cisin's message of "Wed, 15 May 2002 18:08:43 -0700 (PDT)" References: Message-ID: <200205160309.g4G39ntH044142@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > When cleaning keycaps on real IBM PC keyboards (5150), all of the keys > EXCEPT the space bar pop off easily. But if you remove the space bar, > than reassembly of the space bar is more work than the combined total of > the other keys. The OmniKey's space bar is a bit more difficult to take off and reattach too. So when reassembling, do the big keys with supporting widgetry first. You may find it helps to do this before putting the keyboard back in its shell too, especially for the space bar which is right up against the shell. -Frank McConnell From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed May 15 22:45:25 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] transistor counts again Message-ID: <200205160345.UAA20636@clulw009.amd.com> One of the 4's was for the bus size. It was a multiplexed synchronous bus. It had 8 phases. 3 were for address and one was for the rom. One or two were alu and I don't recall what the other was for but I think it was bank selects. Each device would watch the instruction and would do the right thing ( I/O or RAM ) when it's time came around. One might call it smart I/O. This way, the processor didn't have to have the additional pins to select the function for the bus. Dwight >From: "Sellam Ismail" > >On Thu, 16 May 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > >> I find that hard to believe. The 4004 was part of a chipset containing >> the 4001 (ROM), 4002 (RAM) and 4003 (I forget exactly what, some kind of >> I/O?). The 4001 and 4002 parts were used in lots of 4004 or 4040-based >> designs. > >And according to Ted Hoff, it was quite by accident that it ended up with >part number 4004. Coincidence and all. > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > >_______________________________________________ >cctalk mailing list >cctalk@classiccmp.org >http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > From pat at purdueriots.com Wed May 15 22:58:32 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Annex Term Servers Message-ID: I've got an Encore Annex (first model), and Encore Annex Two sitting here that I'm wanting either to get rid of. If I don't get any 'bites', I'll probably pull the usefull chips and can the rest. I'm also going to the Dayton Hamvention thingee on Saturday. If anyone wants to meet me there to get one of these, let me know. If I don't here a reply by Saturday night, they'll probably end up in pieces. They both appear to work (I have no software for them...) the lights light up and the annex one (which has DE9P's so I can hook up a serial console easily) does its diagnostics ok. -- Pat From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu May 16 00:10:57 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re:transistor counts again References: <200205160345.UAA20636@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3CE33F61.BB56B383@jetnet.ab.ca> "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: > > One of the 4's was for the bus size. It was a multiplexed > synchronous bus. It had 8 phases. 3 were for address and > one was for the rom. One or two were alu and I don't recall > what the other was for but I think it was bank selects. > Each device would watch the instruction and would do the > right thing ( I/O or RAM ) when it's time came around. > One might call it smart I/O. This way, the processor didn't > have to have the additional pins to select the function > for the bus. > Dwight > I read many moons ago that Intel at that time could not package a chip with more than 16 pins, until the 8080. That was a nice chip for the time. Notice too how the leading edge of CPU's have been around $350 US each starting with the early Intel chips and continuing to today. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From fernande at internet1.net Thu May 16 00:34:23 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] ebay auction for Vax 6000-310 Message-ID: <3CE344DF.7060008@internet1.net> This isn't mine... if it were, I wouldn't be auctioning it :-) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2024525025 Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From frustum at pacbell.net Thu May 16 01:53:46 2002 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Sol computer emulator, Solace, updated to version 3.1 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020515235106.021fdde0@postoffice.pacbell.net> I've just updated my Sol-20 web site with the latest version of my emulator for the Sol, Solace. Solace runs only under win32 OS's (or OS's that can emulate a win32 system, such as Wine under Linux or SoftPC on the Mac). Here's a link to the Sol Archive: http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/sol.html Follow the links to get to the emulator, which is now at version 3.1. Source code is included. What's new since 3.1? + emulation of sound for the P.T. Music System software + sound effects. Just as irritating as a real Sol. Idea from Bob Stek. + support for source-level assembly language debugging in the built-in debugger. + in the debugger, there is now a splitter bar that lets you decide how much of the screen is used for disassembly vs command history. + a few bug fixes, including suppressing the annoying bell sound every time a command was entered into the debugger. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu May 16 02:05:07 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: [CCTECH] Keycap cleaning strategy In-Reply-To: Tothwolf "Re: [CCTALK] Re: [CCTECH] Keycap cleaning strategy" (May 15, 16:29) References: Message-ID: <10205160805.ZM12880@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 15, 16:29, Tothwolf wrote: > On Wed, 15 May 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > If I'm *really* lazy, I tie them up in a pillowcase and put them in > > the (clothes) washing machine, and follow up with the tumble drier. > > That would likely be a bad idea, since the keys would scratch against each > other. Worst case, all of the lettering would be removed, and best case > would be a few scratches and dings. They don't scratch. And no reasonable keyboard has the lettering put on in such a way that it would rub off in a washing machine. If that were the case, the legending would rub off in normal use. Nearly all decent keys are two-part moulded. If that were the case, the legending would rub off in normal use. The pillowcase/washing machine is a tried and tested method, and I've heard of lots of people who've used it (I didn't invent it, though I can't remember who first told me about it). > > No.1 tip: make a note of the layout before you take the keycaps off. > > It all looks very logical until you actually try to put *every one* of > > the symbol keys back in the right place. > > Or take a digital photo of the keyboard, or make sure you have an exact > duplicate keyboard. Grid/graph paper can be very helpful when writing down > a layout too. Better still, yes. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Thu May 16 02:24:30 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Test post and DEC Unix question In-Reply-To: <20020515162849.20475.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020514191912.00a34ec0@mail.itm-inst.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020516172258.0205b2d8@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 09:28 AM 15/05/2002 -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote: >Still curious about the "0" in your sample line, though. It's because the flag register is a 64 bit quantity. The first digit is the top 32 bits, the digit after the comma is the lower. AFAIK the top 32 bits aren't used in Tru64 but when booting OpenVMS they are used to indicate the system root to boot from when you have a shared system disk. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Thu May 16 02:29:08 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Test post and DEC Unix question In-Reply-To: <200205151832.35608.dankolb@ox.compsoc.net> References: <20020515162849.20475.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> <20020515162849.20475.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020516172718.0205b2d8@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 06:32 PM 15/05/2002 +0100, Dan Kolb wrote: >This doesn't want to work for me - keeps saying 'device busy'. I can't get >a man page for 'mount' up, because the root fs (and therefore /tmp) is >read-only, and I don't have another Digital Unix 4.0 box to get a man >page up on :-) Could anyone kindly point me towards the right options for >remounting a mounted filesystem read-write? Assuming that you have another box with an internet connection and a web browser, the Tru64 doc set can be found at http://www.tru64unix.compaq.com/docs/pub_page/doc_list.html Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Thu May 16 04:18:13 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E42@BUSH02> I'd be more concerned with accidentally scratching the glass bed of the scanner due to sharp component leads. You can't scratch glass with metal. What you can do is leave a thin trace of metal on the glass. Gewelers rouge will easily remove this is nothing else will. I guess that there is a slight possibility of degrading the contents of an EPROM if its window isn'tcovered. Glass is opaque to UV so you won't erase EPROMs either. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From rschaefe at gcfn.org Thu May 16 06:11:05 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] ebay auction for Vax 6000-310 References: <3CE344DF.7060008@internet1.net> Message-ID: <002a01c1fcca$603899c0$89469280@y5f3q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 01:34 AM Subject: [CCTALK] ebay auction for Vax 6000-310 > This isn't mine... if it were, I wouldn't be auctioning it :-) > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2024525025 Is this the one out west? I saw that too. I wouldn't mind the cards from it (whatever they are), but there's no way I can afford shipping, and I know from experience that a pickup is *hard* work. Keep in mind, I got my 6310, for free, because I was the only one who would go out and get it. Got a TU-81+ as a bonus. > > Chad Fernandez Bob From dougq at iglou.com Thu May 16 06:24:43 2002 From: dougq at iglou.com (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] RE: transistor counts again" Message-ID: <000701c1fccc$478aa100$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > > I find that hard to believe. The 4004 was part of a chipset containing > > the 4001 (ROM), 4002 (RAM) and 4003 (I forget exactly what, some kind of > > I/O?). The 4001 and 4002 parts were used in lots of 4004 or 4040-based > > designs. > > And according to Ted Hoff, it was quite by accident that it ended up with > part number 4004. Coincidence and all. Most companies that manufacture stuff just choose a starting number for what they anticipate might be a series of things. Then they just add one. Some of you might remeber a YES album from the 80s titled '90125'... the title wasn't known in advance, as they'd decided the title would simply be the same as the Atlantic Records serial number that would end up being assigned to that album once it was finally scheduled for manufacture. Additionally, that decision came at a time when the band wasn't called YES< but CINEMA, but that's veering way OT. Anyway, eventually, either marketing comes in with their own ideas about numbers, or the lawyers do: The Intel iAPX286 microprocessor had the part number 80286, by which it was more colloquially known. The Intel iAPX386, a chip for which I have the "confidential" pre- liminary specifications, would have had the part number 80386. But in a successful effort to wiggle out of the technology- swapping agreement they had with AMD, they decided not to produce the iAPX386. Instead, they produced the 80386, which also "coincidently" had the part number 80386. FWIW, the iAPX386 specification did not include the virtual 8086 mode that was present in the 80386. I always wonder what amazing things might have been put on that silicon instead of V8086 mode. Yes, V8086 mode is very useful for PeeCees, but of little use for modern, non-DOS-related operating systems. -dq From dougq at iglou.com Thu May 16 06:39:57 2002 From: dougq at iglou.com (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: Keycap cleaning strategy Message-ID: <000701c1fcce$67ddb490$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > They don't scratch. And no reasonable keyboard has the lettering put on in > such a way that it would rub off in a washing machine. If that were the > case, the legending would rub off in normal use. Nearly all decent keys > are two-part moulded. The best keyboards are... but some use silkscreening, and worse, all the laptops I've seen in the last few years except for perhaps the iBook abd the PowerBook (I'll check the Powerbook when I get home) use decals... and yes, they sure do rub off from normal use. Now, if lusers would wash the grease of their hands a few times each day, those decals would stay in place a little longer... -dq From dougq at iglou.com Thu May 16 06:43:24 2002 From: dougq at iglou.com (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] RE: scanners & circuit boards.. Message-ID: <000f01c1fcce$e2d866e0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> >> I'd be more concerned with accidentally scratching the >> glass bed of the scanner due to sharp component leads. > > You can't scratch glass with metal. What you can do is leave > a thin trace of metal on the glass. Gewelers rouge will easily > remove this is nothing else will. >> >> I guess that there is a slight possibility of degrading the >> contents of an EPROM if its window isn'tcovered. > > Glass is opaque to UV so you won't erase EPROMs either. EPROMs don't have UV-opaque glass windows, they have UV-transparent quartz windows. So they can be erased, but not by casual exposure. Regards, -dq From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Thu May 16 07:20:31 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] RE: scanners & circuit boards.. Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E43@BUSH02> > Glass is opaque to UV so you won't erase EPROMs either. EPROMs don't have UV-opaque glass windows, .. Scanners do though. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From mark_k at totalise.co.uk Thu May 16 08:50:07 2002 From: mark_k at totalise.co.uk (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk list Message-ID: Hi, I'm quite behind on reading classiccmp postings. Has the classiccmp list been moved to this new cctalk list? I was subscribed to classiccmp in digest mode, and have now been automatically subscribed to cctalk in digest mode. So far so good, except there are about 5 cctalk digests per day. Can the list admin/maintainer set things so one digest message is sent per day, instead of several smaller ones? That kind of defeats the object of having a digest version. -- Mark From lists at subatomix.com Thu May 16 00:05:10 2002 From: lists at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: [CCTECH] / JUNK FEST In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <23118307196.20020516000510@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, May 15, 2002, Steve Robertson wrote: > My posts will appear in CCTECH but, not in CCTALK and I'll get a rejected > notice from CCTALK for each post. I can live with that. It's certainly > better than all the noise I was getting previously. As I stated earlier, you can probably workaround by subscribing to cctalk and subsequently disabling mail delivery for it, using the web interface. -- Jeffrey Sharp The email address lists@subatomix.com is for mailing list traffic. Please send off-list mail to roach jay ess ess at wasp subatomix beetle dot com. You may need to remove some bugs first. _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From aek at spies.com Thu May 16 08:14:22 2002 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] First SGI Workstations? Message-ID: <200205161314.GAA29877@spies.com> > I am wondering what the first SGI workstation was There should be an SGI hardware FAQ that I contributed some info to on the web that shows the early products. The first Unix products were based on the SUN 68000 design and ran a swapping Unix (1400 series) Later 2000 and 3000 series Irises ran with paging and 68010'a and 020's The 68000 based machines did not have a directly addressable frame buffer, and the original IRIS display didn't really do bitblts very well, making it great for visualization, but pretty poor as a windowing workstation. There were a few diskless products that could be netbooted and used as terminals in the 1000 series, but I'm not sure what software they ran (I suspect it was some variant of the Stanford V kernel) From RCini at congressfinancial.com Thu May 16 09:15:55 2002 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] In a bind-need ROMs for IBM laser printer Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5013718EB@MAIL10> Hello, all: I'm in a bit of a bind. I need a set of ROMs for the IBM 4019-E01 laser printer. I need to uninstall the PostScript option, which requires reinstalling 4 ROMs. Lexmark parts carries the U25/U26 ROMs but not the U27/U28 ROMs, so I would have to order a new controller board for lots of $$$. If someone has this printer and can copy these ROMs for me, I'd greatly appreciate it. Alternatively, I'd take a controller board from a non-working 4019. Please contact me off-list. Thanks. Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) From csmith at amdocs.com Thu May 16 10:26:47 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: First SGI Workstations? Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784608@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Torquil MacCorkle III [mailto:torquil@rockbridge.net] First off, since I wasn't able to send this to cctech, I'll assume for now that the messages we send to this list are automatically forwarded for approval, or something like that. > Does SGI have a timeline or anything up anywhere. I am > wondering what > the first SGI workstation was(R2000 right?). I know they made > terminals > before that, But i am just wondering about workstations. They have a "periodic table of IRISes." Google ought to have some of them. Their first workstation was the IRIS 2000, I think. Or do you mean desktop workstation? :) The IRIS 2000 was based on a motorola 680xx chip of some kind. Their first smaller workstation was a "personal IRIS" system. It was a tower case. After that, the Indigo. I know specifically that the first Indigos used R3000 CPUs, but you'll have to look up the ones used in Personal IRIS and IRIS 2000. Also look at IRIS 3000, and IRIS Professional (I think those are the ones) systems, which were produced in between. (In that order) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' -------------- next part -------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this message is proprietary of Amdocs, protected from disclosure, and may be privileged. The information is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s) of the message. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, use, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mythtech at mac.com Thu May 16 10:52:37 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Subject preface Message-ID: I know Jay said he isn't going to touch this until the new server settles down and the kinks are worked out... and that is fine... but I figured I would mention it as a mental note for when he can get the chance to look into things. BAD side effect to the subject preface... sorting by subject no longer works properly (at least not here, Claris Emailer 2.0v3, but I suspect others as well). Based on where the responding person's email client sticks the Re:, and based on if it has double prefaces, the subject will be sorted in different places. As a result, yesterday and today's posts have been listing all out of order. That makes it much harder to follow a thread, and near impossible to delete a topic in bulk that doesn't interest you. So just food for thought, and my vote to remove the subject preface entirely (at least the list server inserted one... manually inserting OT or WTB, or FS or whatever for certain postings isn't really a problem) Of course, this should really go private to Jay, but I can't find his addy right now (I am sure I will spot it right after sending this) -chris From pat at purdueriots.com Thu May 16 11:18:59 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Annex Term Servers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: They've been spoken for, don't bother asking me for them. :) -- Pat On Wed, 15 May 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > I've got an Encore Annex (first model), and Encore Annex Two sitting here > that I'm wanting either to get rid of. If I don't get any 'bites', I'll > probably pull the usefull chips and can the rest. > > I'm also going to the Dayton Hamvention thingee on Saturday. If anyone > wants to meet me there to get one of these, let me know. If I don't here > a reply by Saturday night, they'll probably end up in pieces. > > They both appear to work (I have no software for them...) the lights light > up and the annex one (which has DE9P's so I can hook up a serial console > easily) does its diagnostics ok. > > -- Pat > > _______________________________________________ > cctalk mailing list > cctalk@classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > From fernande at internet1.net Thu May 16 11:26:45 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] ebay auction for Vax 6000-310 References: <3CE344DF.7060008@internet1.net> <002a01c1fcca$603899c0$89469280@y5f3q8> Message-ID: <3CE3DDC5.30804@internet1.net> Robert Schaefer wrote: >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2024525025 > > > Is this the one out west? Yup, Idaho. I probably wouldn't have bid any way, but I had originally been thinking Iowa. Guess Idaho really puts the dampers on it for me. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From lgwalker at mts.net Wed May 15 23:34:51 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] TRS-80 Floppies In-Reply-To: <0205151206410F.00521@simon> References: <3CE291BC.3C0E5963@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <3CE2F09B.4073.3F60EAB@localhost> I have a model II and software but have just arrived back from a trip to Vancouver with a carload of stuff that I picked up there, a mailbox stuffed with messages, and my m.II is buried under a raft of other stuff and not set up. I should be cleared away in a couple of weeks. The manuals are on-line at Kee's m.II site. http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/cm/ Contact me off-line in a couple of weeks. Lawrence > I have a RadioShack TRS-80 Model II with 8" floppy drives. I *believe* it takes > SS/SD disks, but can someone confirm this? Does it required hard-sectored > disks? > > I'm trying to find some 8" floppies to work in this machine. > > Also, if anyone has TRSDOS or any other software for the TRS-80 line on 8" > floppies, would you let me know? I'd be interested in getting some copies. > > I believe the drive *inside* the machine is a Shugart, but the 3 drives in the > extra drive pack extension, I have no idea. > > Thanks, > Tarsi > 210 > _______________________________________________ > cctalk mailing list > cctalk@classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From doug at blinkenlights.com Thu May 16 11:21:47 2002 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug Salot) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] *FREE* S-100 stuff available for pick-up in SoCal In-Reply-To: <3CE3DDC5.30804@internet1.net> Message-ID: I'm about to clear out my Irvine CA storage, and I've got some vintage stuff in there that must go *today*. I'm not even sure what's in there, but I'm pretty sure there's a Vector S-100 box and other S-100 goodies. If you're in SoCal and willing to pick up from Irvine today, send me a note and I'll give you more details once I visit the storage facility. Thanks, Doug From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu May 16 11:51:12 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] RE: scanners & circuit boards.. Message-ID: <200205161651.JAA21053@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Douglas H. Quebbeman" >>>> I'd be more concerned with accidentally scratching the >>> glass bed of the scanner due to sharp component leads. >> >> You can't scratch glass with metal. What you can do is leave >> a thin trace of metal on the glass. Gewelers rouge will easily >> remove this is nothing else will. This is not true. Try running your windshield wipers without the rubber. Although, it may be true that glass has a hardness greater than most metals, this doesn't mean it won't get scratched. The problem is that it also fractures easily ( sometimes at a microscopic level ). The tiny chips embed in the metal surface and that scratches the glass. This is a multiplying effect. Also, most oxides of metal are harder than glass. And lastly, the quartz windows of the EPROMs are harder than glass. >>> >>> I guess that there is a slight possibility of degrading the >>> contents of an EPROM if its window isn'tcovered. >> >> Glass is opaque to UV so you won't erase EPROMs either. > >EPROMs don't have UV-opaque glass windows, they have >UV-transparent quartz windows. So they can be erased, >but not by casual exposure. I think he was talking about the glass on the scanner. Dwight From red at bears.org Thu May 16 11:54:02 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] TRS-80 Floppies In-Reply-To: <3CE2F09B.4073.3F60EAB@localhost> Message-ID: > > I have a RadioShack TRS-80 Model II with 8" floppy drives. I > > *believe* it takes SS/SD disks, but can someone confirm this? Does it > > required hard-sectored disks? > > > > I believe the drive *inside* the machine is a Shugart, but the 3 > > drives in the extra drive pack extension, I have no idea. Tarsi, I just realized I have a fairly extensive collection of service documents for the Model II and that these questions are certainly answered inside. I will check tonight. ok r. From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu May 16 12:42:28 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... In-Reply-To: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E42@BUSH02> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 May 2002, Davison, Lee wrote: > Tothwolf wrote: > > > I'd be more concerned with accidentally scratching the glass bed of > > the scanner due to sharp component leads. > > You can't scratch glass with metal. What you can do is leave a thin > trace of metal on the glass. Gewelers rouge will easily remove this is > nothing else will. Are you sure? I've scratched glass with metal before, though not with a pc board. Most component leads (excluding some of the newer resistors and capacitors) are made of a tin plated copper or a copper alloy anyhow, so it would seem that they would be less likely to damage something than say, steel. Since we are talking about scratched glass, do you have any ideas on how to remove scratches from the face of a CRT? > > I guess that there is a slight possibility of degrading the contents > > of an EPROM if its window isn'tcovered. > > Glass is opaque to UV so you won't erase EPROMs either. That is true. I had totally forgotten about that. The window of an EPROM is made of quartz for that very reason. That is also why EPROMS are much more expensive than a PROM that is exactly the same in all other aspects. -Toth From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu May 16 12:54:34 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 16 May 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > Since we are talking about scratched glass, do you have any ideas on how > to remove scratches from the face of a CRT? There's a guy here who had one of those auto-glass repair places buff a bad scrape off his 21" Nokia. Yes, the tube, not the bezel. Personally, I think the person who did the work is certifiably (a) stupid (b) suicidal - take your pick. But they did a great job. Doc From edick at idcomm.com Thu May 16 13:20:33 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... References: Message-ID: <004b01c1fd06$5ec9d040$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've never attempted to scratch glass with 'em, but I've found that IC leadframes are made of ferrous metal. I routinely use my "magnet on a stick" to pick 'em up. There's lots of stuff that you can scratch with pretty soft steel. One thing to keep in mind is that while aluminum is pretty soft, aluminum oxide is a very good abrasive. That's not the only material with that characteristic. What's more, soft materials tend to pick up bits of other materials, and can scratch things with what they pick up. I've scratched one scanner bed by careless handling of PC boards I was scanning. A little care is all it takes. It's particularly important to be aware of where connectors, test points, and jumper blocks are located so you can manage their contact with the scanner bed. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tothwolf" To: Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 11:42 AM Subject: RE: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... > On Thu, 16 May 2002, Davison, Lee wrote: > > Tothwolf wrote: > > > > > I'd be more concerned with accidentally scratching the glass bed of > > > the scanner due to sharp component leads. > > > > You can't scratch glass with metal. What you can do is leave a thin > > trace of metal on the glass. Gewelers rouge will easily remove this is > > nothing else will. > > Are you sure? I've scratched glass with metal before, though not with a pc > board. Most component leads (excluding some of the newer resistors and > capacitors) are made of a tin plated copper or a copper alloy anyhow, so > it would seem that they would be less likely to damage something than say, > steel. > > Since we are talking about scratched glass, do you have any ideas on how > to remove scratches from the face of a CRT? > > > > I guess that there is a slight possibility of degrading the contents > > > of an EPROM if its window isn'tcovered. > > > > Glass is opaque to UV so you won't erase EPROMs either. > > That is true. I had totally forgotten about that. The window of an EPROM > is made of quartz for that very reason. That is also why EPROMS are much > more expensive than a PROM that is exactly the same in all other aspects. > > -Toth > > _______________________________________________ > cctalk mailing list > cctalk@classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > > From lgwalker at mts.net Thu May 16 01:32:15 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] HD repair techniques? In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E017845EA@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: <3CE30C1F.19627.4618F82@localhost> I know we have this new format, but that shouldn't change the restraints against HTML and attachments. Please Chris and several others, they are a real P-I-T-A and really not needed. Lawrence > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net] > > > The drives are both a Conner CFS1275A, 1.2GB, 3 platters, 6 > > surfaces. I'm > > starting to suspect the top surface of the upper platter is the servo > > surface, due to the behavior of the drive when it failed. Can anyone > > confirm if this is the case, or if these type of drive even > > use a servo > > I don't know much about the drive, but I think I may have another spare > floating around (dead, of course, but it's been years, and I can't tell > you the mode of failure). Let me know if you need more parts, and I'll > check. > > > surface? The 1275A doesn't quite yet meet the 10 year rule, > > but with all > > the experts here, I figure someone is bound to know more about these > > drives then I currently do. > > I think I took the brunt of the assault with my car post, don't worry ;) > > Chris > > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu May 16 13:49:27 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 16 May 2002, Doc wrote: > On Thu, 16 May 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > > Since we are talking about scratched glass, do you have any ideas on how > > to remove scratches from the face of a CRT? > > There's a guy here who had one of those auto-glass repair places buff > a bad scrape off his 21" Nokia. Yes, the tube, not the bezel. > Personally, I think the person who did the work is certifiably (a) > stupid (b) suicidal - take your pick. But they did a great job. If the damage wasn't very deep, I'd not be too worried about it. The thickest part of a glass tube is the face, which could be anywhere from 1/4" to 1" thick. Of course, it would be a good idea to wear gloves and a face shield (or at the very least, safety goggles) when doing that kind of work. I've buffed out tiny scratches in the past with (of all things) toothpaste, but for the more visible but still minor scratches, I need to find something else. -Toth From rschaefe at gcfn.org Thu May 16 13:54:06 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] ebay auction for Vax 6000-310 References: <3CE344DF.7060008@internet1.net> <002a01c1fcca$603899c0$89469280@y5f3q8> <3CE3DDC5.30804@internet1.net> Message-ID: <002a01c1fd0b$0f353f60$a3469280@y5f3q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 12:26 PM Subject: Re: [CCTALK] ebay auction for Vax 6000-310 > Robert Schaefer wrote: > >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2024525025 > > > > > > Is this the one out west? > > Yup, Idaho. I probably wouldn't have bid any way, but I had originally > been thinking Iowa. Guess Idaho really puts the dampers on it for me. Me too. If it doesn't sell (and honestly I don't expect it to) maybe I'll drop him a line and see if I can persuade him to pull the cards 'n cabs. At least that way the whole thing won't end up in a landfill. :( :( :( > > Chad Fernandez Bob From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu May 16 14:03:11 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... Message-ID: Toothpaste is actually a good fine abrasive. I have heard it recommended before (for polishing scratches from the display panel of a Radio Shack Model 100). Another product is called "Mirror Glaze." The exhibit staff at the museum I worked at used it to buff small scratches from Plexiglas display cases. -----Original Message----- From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 1:49 PM To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... I've buffed out tiny scratches in the past with (of all things) toothpaste, but for the more visible but still minor scratches, I need to find something else. -Toth From mythtech at mac.com Thu May 16 14:21:00 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... Message-ID: >> There's a guy here who had one of those auto-glass repair places buff >> a bad scrape off his 21" Nokia. Yes, the tube, not the bezel. >> Personally, I think the person who did the work is certifiably (a) >> stupid (b) suicidal - take your pick. But they did a great job. > >If the damage wasn't very deep, I'd not be too worried about it. The >thickest part of a glass tube is the face, which could be anywhere from >1/4" to 1" thick. I don't know what kind of buffing equipment the guy used, but if it is like the stuff I have seen used to take scratches out of our fire trucks... I wouldn't be too worried about buffing a tube. The last one I TRIED to break, took a good dozen swings with the frame of a heavy rolling chair before it cracked... and even then, it just cracked. It took a few more hits before it actually gave out and collapsed. Next time I will whack one with a sledge hammer and see how many hits it takes to get to the center. (I am still a little leary to toss a monitor off the top of my office building... I'm afraid I'll damage the asphalt... the landlord would kick my ass if I did that. But it is only 2 stories so I am thinking about it... I don't think a 14" monitor could build up enough energy to damage the parking lot on a 30 foot drop... I just haven't gotten the guts up to try it and find out) -chris From lgjean at free.fr Thu May 16 13:10:30 2002 From: lgjean at free.fr (lgjean) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: Data I/O 212 EPROM programmer Message-ID: <000d01c1fd04$fa69f8b0$4faa933e@piii> Hi I have a DATA I/O 212 without software. You may help-me ? email to lgjean@free.fr (sorry for my pitiful english) Jean From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu May 16 15:02:01 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] FW: DEC Cards and chassis available Toronto Canada... Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467974@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ***Found this during my daily perusal of select newsgroups... Reply directly to this guy. Subject: Cards and chassis available Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 02:03:18 GMT From: "Don" Org: Shaw Residential Internet Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec I'm moving and I have to lose a bunch of DEC stuff before mid June. Come and get it and save it from the dump. It is in the Toronto Canada area. Mail me for further details. DEC stuff =========== * all counts are approximate, some parts are in rough shape, some do not work 12 BA Chassis DEC part 630QZ-AX 1 spare power supply for above 5 KOM chassis 1 set of binders RSX 11M version 3.1 1 Digital Microcomputers +Memories Handbook 1982 1 TU-56 dual tape drive and some tapes (it works) 1 quad height extender card (used to troubleshoot cards) 2 dual height extender card 9 MXV11 M8047 (ROM and 2 DL) 6 DZ KOM version 20 DZ (made by DEC) 1 dual height memory 2 quad high memory 4 RCC cards (custom part) 3 11/23 cpu 8 11/73 cpu 3 M9400 terminator + rom misc other Contact me at dgreer6146-at-shaw-dot-ca Don -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From Innfogra at aol.com Thu May 16 15:06:36 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] pitching stuff off rooftops Message-ID: <162.ddc6c06.2a156b4c@aol.com> In a message dated 5/16/02 12:22:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mythtech@mac.com writes: > (I am still a little leary to toss a monitor off the top of my office > building... I'm afraid I'll damage the asphalt... the landlord would kick > my ass if I did that. But it is only 2 stories so I am thinking about > it... I don't think a 14" monitor could build up enough energy to damage > the parking lot on a 30 foot drop... I just haven't gotten the guts up to > try it and find out) > The problem with throwing stuff off rooftops is containing the debris, which, with a monitor, is considerable. We have had lots of fun pitching stuff into a 30 yard dumpster when we had one delivered. The first time we were in a seven story warehouse with stuff on the 7th and 4th floors. A stereo system dropped from the seventh floor can literally jump out of the dumpster upon impact. This was the first we tried. Containment works better when there is a little debris in the bottom. The first few items jumped right out of the dumpster, bouncing off the metal bottom. Of course they shatter when hitting the bottom making a mess to clean up when they jumped into the street. We did this on a Sunday morning, I recommend checking when your local authorities are not available. It makes a lot of noise and can attract attention. In NW Portland Oregon no one came by. After cleaning the street up of the first items we moved to the 4th floor where we had 60 Wang Terminal tubes to dispose of. These did not jump out of the dumpster. The fall from the 4th floor was not as great. They made a great pop when they hit the dumpster. It was a noisy morning. The Wang 2200 tubes were over 10 years old so it fits the criteria of the list, not to mention this was also in 1989, more than 10 years ago. It was before we realized the potential toxic hazard we were unleashing. Another time we had to despool several pallets of spooled wire. We took them up to the roof and dropped the spools into the neighboring parking lot. If you dropped them just right the spool would come apart and the coil of wire would rise up about 6 or 8 feet off the ground. Did not damage the parking lot. Lots of fun for work. A heavy aluminum or steel chassis will make marks in both concrete or asphalt. Plastic shatters making a big mess. We preferred to restrain ourselves until we had a dumpster to toss things into. Properly contained it can be a lot of fun. Paxton Astoria, OR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020516/7927b0ad/attachment.html From CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL Thu May 16 15:13:08 2002 From: CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL (Corda Albert J DLVA) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] EPROM Life... Was: scanners & circuit boards... Message-ID: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F34561A8FB1@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> Now, I don't know the construction/nature of the tubes used in scanners, but I myself would be wary of photocopying or scanning a PC board with an unprotected (i.e. uncovered) EPROM window face-down on the scanning surface. My reasoning is as follows; Although a fluorescent tube in good condition shouldn't emit much UV, one has to remember the way such a bulb functions. The excited gas inside the tube emits almost entirely in the UV spectrum. This is converted to the visible spectrum by the phospor coating on the inside surface of the tube. Over time, I have seen some of the coating flake off the inside of old flourescent tubes, providing a bunch of small UV "windows". Most UV Eproms begin to erase when exposed to UV wavelengths shorter than 4000 A (Angstroms). I found the following statement concerning EPROM sensitivity to UV light on page 10-9 of the National Semiconductor 1984 "CMOS Databook" (and yes, I _am_ a packrat when it comes to old databooks :-) concerning the 27C16 (a very common older type of EPROM): Erasure Characteristics: "... It should be noted that sunlight and certain types of fluorescent lamps have wavelengths in the 3000 A - 4000 A range. Data shows that constant exposure to room-level flourescent lighting could erase the typical NMC27C16 in approximately 3 Years, while it would take approximately 1 week to cause erasure when exposed to direct sunlight..." Also, one must keep in mind that the timeframes listed above are probably derived from studies of "freshly programmed" eproms. Most of the ones we would be interested in would already have a number of years of charge decay under their belts. I was unable to find a reference to a finite lifetime for UV Eproms, but I seem to vaguely recall that there is a limit (~10 Years? sounds short, but I seem to remember reading it somewhere. Does anyone have this number at hand?) The end result of all this is that if you have any equipment you consider valuable, and it has windowed EPROMS, make certain that the windows are covered with an opague sticker. You might also consider dumping their contents to a data file for archival purposes. (and possibly re-programming them to effectively "refresh" them). -al- -acorda@1bigred.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net] > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 4:16 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... > > > On Wed, 15 May 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > > What's everyone's thoughts on placing circuit boards directly on the > > bed of a scanner for imaging? Any possibility of damage to > the board > > from the light or other parts of the scanner? I've done it before > > with good results but not with anything truly unique. > > I'd be more concerned with accidentally scratching the glass > bed of the > scanner due to sharp component leads. I guess that there is a slight > possibility of degrading the contents of an EPROM if its window isn't > covered. The fluorescent tube the scanner uses to illuminate the bed > really shouldn't be emitting too much in the way of UV or > near UV light > though. Other than UV erasable components that don't have their window > covered, I can't think of anything else I'd be concerned about. > > -Toth > > _______________________________________________ > cctalk mailing list > cctalk@classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > From Gary.Messick at itt.com Thu May 16 15:18:33 2002 From: Gary.Messick at itt.com (Messick, Gary) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] pitching stuff off rooftops Message-ID: <998FEBD9C16DD211881200A0C9D61AD704468A41@acdfwx3.acdin.de.ittind.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Innfogra@aol.com [mailto:Innfogra@aol.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 3:07 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: [CCTALK] pitching stuff off rooftops > > > After cleaning the street up of the first items we moved to the 4th floor where we had 60 Wang > Terminal tubes to dispose of. These did not jump out of the dumpster. The fall from the 4th > floor was not as great. They made a great pop when they hit the dumpster. It was a noisy > morning. > > The Wang 2200 tubes were over 10 years old so it fits the criteria of the list, not to mention ^^^^^^^^^ AAIIIIIEEE!!!! (How could you?) > this was also in 1989, more than 10 years ago. It was before we realized the potential toxic > hazard we were unleashing. ************************************ If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the addressee, please note that this message may contain ITT Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. You should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of ITT is neither endorsed by nor attributable to ITT. ************************************ From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu May 16 15:22:58 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... Message-ID: <200205162022.NAA21481@clulw009.amd.com> >From: Tothwolf > >On Thu, 16 May 2002, Davison, Lee wrote: >> Tothwolf wrote: >> >> > I'd be more concerned with accidentally scratching the glass bed of >> > the scanner due to sharp component leads. >> >> You can't scratch glass with metal. What you can do is leave a thin >> trace of metal on the glass. Gewelers rouge will easily remove this is >> nothing else will. > >Are you sure? I've scratched glass with metal before, though not with a pc >board. Most component leads (excluding some of the newer resistors and >capacitors) are made of a tin plated copper or a copper alloy anyhow, so >it would seem that they would be less likely to damage something than say, >steel. > >Since we are talking about scratched glass, do you have any ideas on how >to remove scratches from the face of a CRT? Hi Jewelers rouge will remove scratches from glass. It does depend on the depth. The reason I know this is because I am also an amateur telescope maker and rouge is a common material used to polish glass. If the scratch is deep, you'll need to grind with something like 15 or 5 micron aluminum oxide. You'll note that both rouge and aluminum oxide are both oxides of common metals. These are harder than glass and can scratch glass under the right condition. Also, carbon steel wheels are used to scribe glass ( but this isn't scratching, it is fracturing so this doesn't count but the results look the same ). Contact me off group and I can help with your CRT problem. Dwight From Innfogra at aol.com Thu May 16 15:33:45 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] pitching stuff off rooftops Message-ID: <154.dfeb3f4.2a1571a9@aol.com> In a message dated 5/16/02 1:19:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Gary.Messick@itt.com writes: > > ^^^^^^^^^ AAIIIIIEEE!!!! (How could you?) > It was not my choice, but my partner's. It was 1989, before I discovered the list. We couldn't find anyone to sell them to. They are very expensive to store for the next 10 or 20 years until they are valuable again. At that time I had no idea they would ever be valuable again. My partner was a scrapper and we had to move. Paxton Astoria, OR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020516/83efb141/attachment.html From mythtech at mac.com Thu May 16 15:38:06 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] pitching stuff off rooftops Message-ID: >We have had lots of fun pitching stuff into >a 30 yard dumpster when we had one delivered. But then you can't video tape its impact and edit it into slow motion among other things. >We did this on a Sunday morning, I recommend checking when your local >authorities are not available. It makes a lot of noise and can attract >attention. We have a private parking lot... and my sister is a cop on the local police department, and the PBA holds their meetings in our building. So even if the cops show up, they are likely to just hang out watch, and cheer us on. >It was >before we realized the potential toxic hazard we were unleashing. Humm.. hadn't thought about the health hazard. :-( >A heavy aluminum or steel chassis will make marks in both concrete or >asphalt. That's what I'm worried about. I guess I could remove the case to the monitors and verify that they are just plastic. But I just have this fear that I will chip the asphalt, and within a season there will be a nice pothole in the middle of the drive. -chris From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu May 16 15:55:13 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] EPROM Life... Was: scanners & circuit boards... Message-ID: <200205162055.NAA21489@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Corda Albert J DLVA" > >Now, I don't know the construction/nature of the tubes used >in scanners, but I myself would be wary of photocopying or >scanning a PC board with an unprotected (i.e. uncovered) EPROM >window face-down on the scanning surface. My reasoning is >as follows; > >Although a fluorescent tube in good condition shouldn't emit >much UV, one has to remember the way such a bulb functions. >The excited gas inside the tube emits almost entirely in the >UV spectrum. This is converted to the visible spectrum by the >phospor coating on the inside surface of the tube. Over time, >I have seen some of the coating flake off the inside of old >flourescent tubes, providing a bunch of small UV "windows". The fluorescent tubes used in offices usually have ordinary glass and in plastic fixtures. I would suspect that the 3 year period is rather pessimistic. Many scanners use halogen lamps. These produce quite a bit of UV. Infact, a bare halogen lamp can be used to erase EPROMs with a fan for cooling. It won't be fast but it will erase. The glass plate in a scanner still blocks much of the UV light that would cause damage. I wouldn't think that running it through a scanner would remove more than about a months worth of normal aging at most. Covering them is simple and makes good sense. Still, it is a good idea to store good data from EPROM's in a different form. I always make both a *.BIN file and a printout of any of the EPROM's and most of the ROM's that are in my older equipment. Cosmic rays will eventually erase any EPROM is leakage doesn't do it first. I have some 1702A's that were programmed over 20 years ago that are working fine ( around 1972, almost 30 years ). On a side note, ceramic packaged parts will also scratch glass. Dwight From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu May 16 18:09:13 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] testing Message-ID: <06cb01c1fd2e$b1f6d0b0$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Thu May 16 17:13:39 2002 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] OT: Software wanted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020516181113.00a121e0@pop-server> I have an acquaintance who is collecting old copies of TurboTax and TaxCut. Does anybody have any laying around that they would like to sell? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 16 17:21:39 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Commodore 1541 Drive In-Reply-To: <200205160047.RAA08388@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at May 15, 2 05:47:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 497 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020516/befc9f4d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 16 17:25:54 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: Keycap cleaning strategy In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at May 15, 2 06:08:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1198 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020516/7b747064/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 16 17:33:31 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] transistor counts again In-Reply-To: <200205160345.UAA20636@clulw009.amd.com> from "Dwight K. Elvey" at May 15, 2 08:45:25 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1515 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020516/25aae814/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 16 17:42:12 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] RE: scanners & circuit boards.. In-Reply-To: <000f01c1fcce$e2d866e0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> from "Douglas H. Quebbeman" at May 16, 2 07:43:24 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 615 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020516/907f1aaa/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 16 17:18:21 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: [CCTECH] / JUNK FEST In-Reply-To: from "Steve Robertson" at May 15, 2 07:17:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 297 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020516/fcc1cc18/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 16 17:35:30 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re:transistor counts again In-Reply-To: <3CE33F61.BB56B383@jetnet.ab.ca> from "Ben Franchuk" at May 15, 2 11:10:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 325 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020516/cf5fa39d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 16 17:14:06 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] RE: [CCTECH] TRS-80 Model 1 In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at May 15, 2 03:15:17 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1082 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020516/01414d7d/attachment.ksh From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu May 16 18:27:49 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re:transistor counts again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 16 May 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > I read many moons ago that Intel at that time could not package > > a chip with more than 16 pins, until the 8080. That was a > > I thought the 8008 had 18 pins, and that predated the 8080. > > For that matter, the 4040 had 24 pins, as did the 1702 EPROM. I am not > sure whether those came out before the 8080, though. The 8008 does have 18 pins. I have a tube of 6 of them in front of me right now. -Toth From rschaefe at gcfn.org Thu May 16 18:42:06 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Fw: VAX Hardware Anyone? Message-ID: <003701c1fd33$4a901300$9a469280@y5f3q8> Maybe someone will want to talk to this guy (not me) about his kit? Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Les Flodrowski" Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 04:09 PM Subject: VAX Hardware Anyone? > We have a dual VAX 4500a (4000-500a) cluster to dispose of. > > It consists of the following components: > > - 2 VAX 4500a systems clustered with the following storage arrays > - R400X DSSI Storage cabinet with 6 x DSSI 1.0GB - 1.6GB drives > - StorageWorks cabinet with 3 x 4.3GB SCSI drives > - TX87 DLT Tape drive > - TU81 Plus Magtape drive > - VAX 4500a system complete spare > > At this time we are simply trying to find out if there is > any interest in the community for these systems. If you are > interested, and would like to make a serious offer, please > contact me. > > BTW, we also have all media and documentation for VAX/VMS and > a number of related applications. > > --- > > Les Flodrowski, les@uwo.ca > Phone: 519 661 3595 > The University of Western Ontario > > > From ccraft at springsips.com Thu May 16 18:54:35 2002 From: ccraft at springsips.com (Chris Craft) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Fw: VAX Hardware Anyone? In-Reply-To: <003701c1fd33$4a901300$9a469280@y5f3q8> References: <003701c1fd33$4a901300$9a469280@y5f3q8> Message-ID: <20020516235434.766006144D@mamacass.springsips.com> I've been looking for a TU81 (or similar) for awhile... too bad I'm in Colorado, USA and this guy is in Ontario, CAN. On Thursday 16 May 2002 17:42, you wrote: > Maybe someone will want to talk to this guy (not me) about his kit? > > Bob > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Les Flodrowski" > Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 04:09 PM > Subject: VAX Hardware Anyone? > > > We have a dual VAX 4500a (4000-500a) cluster to dispose of. > > > > It consists of the following components: > > > > - 2 VAX 4500a systems clustered with the following storage arrays > > - R400X DSSI Storage cabinet with 6 x DSSI 1.0GB - 1.6GB drives > > - StorageWorks cabinet with 3 x 4.3GB SCSI drives > > - TX87 DLT Tape drive > > - TU81 Plus Magtape drive > > - VAX 4500a system complete spare > > > > At this time we are simply trying to find out if there is > > any interest in the community for these systems. If you are > > interested, and would like to make a serious offer, please > > contact me. > > > > BTW, we also have all media and documentation for VAX/VMS and > > a number of related applications. > > > > --- > > > > Les Flodrowski, les@uwo.ca > > Phone: 519 661 3595 > > The University of Western Ontario > > _______________________________________________ > cctalk mailing list > cctalk@classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk From allain at panix.com Thu May 16 19:05:02 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] SCSI FDD References: Message-ID: <003901c1fd36$7e3a5d20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Anybody know ehere to get SCSI floppy drives? I understand that they work well with later DEC like the vS3100's. (1.44 3.5" naturally). John A. _______________________________________________ insert footer into mouth here From allain at panix.com Thu May 16 19:15:21 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] back [Bracketing] labor (an 'Re:...) References: Message-ID: <004d01c1fd37$ef409420$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Tony said: +AD4- Is it just me, or has this list just +AD4- become rediculously complicated? I think there are a couple/few bugs to iron out, nothing bad though. And... positive value of having a list - new negative aspects of list ---------------------------- A value above zero+ACoAKg- As Chris and others have said, let's give Jay a chance to metabolize his coffees before complaining. A few small changes may be warranted, and I can wait a bit for them. John A. +ACoAKg-in other words, thanks Jay From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu May 16 19:31:06 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re:transistor counts again References: Message-ID: <3CE44F4A.55715C31@jetnet.ab.ca> Tothwolf wrote: > > On Thu, 16 May 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > I read many moons ago that Intel at that time could not package > > > a chip with more than 16 pins, until the 8080. That was a > > > > I thought the 8008 had 18 pins, and that predated the 8080. > > > > For that matter, the 4040 had 24 pins, as did the 1702 EPROM. I am not > > sure whether those came out before the 8080, though. > > The 8008 does have 18 pins. I have a tube of 6 of them in front of me > right now. I forgot about the 1702 EPROM. But the point is only with the 8080 did they go to the larger 40 pin packaging. Nodays a 40 pin package is considered tiny. From donm at cts.com Thu May 16 19:49:35 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] EPROM Life... Was: scanners & circuit boards... In-Reply-To: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F34561A8FB1@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 May 2002, Corda Albert J DLVA wrote: > Now, I don't know the construction/nature of the tubes used > in scanners, but I myself would be wary of photocopying or > scanning a PC board with an unprotected (i.e. uncovered) EPROM > window face-down on the scanning surface. My reasoning is > as follows; > > Although a fluorescent tube in good condition shouldn't emit > much UV, one has to remember the way such a bulb functions. > The excited gas inside the tube emits almost entirely in the > UV spectrum. This is converted to the visible spectrum by the > phospor coating on the inside surface of the tube. Over time, > I have seen some of the coating flake off the inside of old > flourescent tubes, providing a bunch of small UV "windows". > > Most UV Eproms begin to erase when exposed to UV wavelengths > shorter than 4000 A (Angstroms). I found the following > statement concerning EPROM sensitivity to UV light on page > 10-9 of the National Semiconductor 1984 "CMOS Databook" (and > yes, I _am_ a packrat when it comes to old databooks :-) > concerning the 27C16 (a very common older type of EPROM): No one that I have know of has taken note of the brevity of exposure to the light of a scanner or a copying machine. It seems to me that barring many repetitive exposures - and I mean MANY - the likelihood of damage is almost nil. And, of course, there is also the UV blocking of glass as well. Chicken Little, anyone? - don > Erasure Characteristics: > "... It should be noted that sunlight and certain types of > fluorescent lamps have wavelengths in the 3000 A - 4000 A > range. Data shows that constant exposure to room-level > flourescent lighting could erase the typical NMC27C16 in > approximately 3 Years, while it would take approximately > 1 week to cause erasure when exposed to direct sunlight..." > > Also, one must keep in mind that the timeframes listed > above are probably derived from studies of "freshly programmed" > eproms. Most of the ones we would be interested in would > already have a number of years of charge decay under their > belts. I was unable to find a reference to a finite lifetime > for UV Eproms, but I seem to vaguely recall that there is > a limit (~10 Years? sounds short, but I seem to remember > reading it somewhere. Does anyone have this number at hand?) > > The end result of all this is that if you have any equipment > you consider valuable, and it has windowed EPROMS, make certain > that the windows are covered with an opague sticker. You might > also consider dumping their contents to a data file for archival > purposes. (and possibly re-programming them to effectively > "refresh" them). > > -al- > -acorda@1bigred.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 4:16 PM > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... > > > > > > On Wed, 15 May 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > > > > What's everyone's thoughts on placing circuit boards directly on the > > > bed of a scanner for imaging? Any possibility of damage to > > the board > > > from the light or other parts of the scanner? I've done it before > > > with good results but not with anything truly unique. > > > > I'd be more concerned with accidentally scratching the glass > > bed of the > > scanner due to sharp component leads. I guess that there is a slight > > possibility of degrading the contents of an EPROM if its window isn't > > covered. The fluorescent tube the scanner uses to illuminate the bed > > really shouldn't be emitting too much in the way of UV or > > near UV light > > though. Other than UV erasable components that don't have their window > > covered, I can't think of anything else I'd be concerned about. > > > > -Toth > > > > _______________________________________________ > > cctalk mailing list > > cctalk@classiccmp.org > > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > > > > > _______________________________________________ > cctalk mailing list > cctalk@classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > From vance at ikickass.org Thu May 16 20:03:21 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] First SGI Workstations? In-Reply-To: <0b2501c1fc75$818e89e0$0200a8c0@tm2000> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 May 2002, Torquil MacCorkle III wrote: > Does SGI have a timeline or anything up anywhere. I am wondering > what the first SGI workstation was(R2000 right?). I know they made > terminals before that, But i am just wondering about workstations. SGI made 68K-based workstations before they made MIPS-based ones. Peace... Sridhar -- "How do you fight such a savage?" "With heart, faith, and steel. There can be only one." -MacLeod and Ramirez, "Highlander" From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu May 16 20:04:24 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] EPROM Life... Was: scanners & circuit boards... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Most parts state that for direct sunlight to erase EPROMs, you're talking *days* of continued exposure. The energy of a UV erasing bulb is *much* higher than the tube in a scanner. And obviously a scanner tube contains a low amount of UV, or it would sport a required warning for eye damage. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Don Maslin Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 20:50 To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: [CCTALK] EPROM Life... Was: scanners & circuit boards... On Thu, 16 May 2002, Corda Albert J DLVA wrote: > Now, I don't know the construction/nature of the tubes used > in scanners, but I myself would be wary of photocopying or > scanning a PC board with an unprotected (i.e. uncovered) EPROM > window face-down on the scanning surface. My reasoning is > as follows; > > Although a fluorescent tube in good condition shouldn't emit > much UV, one has to remember the way such a bulb functions. > The excited gas inside the tube emits almost entirely in the > UV spectrum. This is converted to the visible spectrum by the > phospor coating on the inside surface of the tube. Over time, > I have seen some of the coating flake off the inside of old > flourescent tubes, providing a bunch of small UV "windows". > > Most UV Eproms begin to erase when exposed to UV wavelengths > shorter than 4000 A (Angstroms). I found the following > statement concerning EPROM sensitivity to UV light on page > 10-9 of the National Semiconductor 1984 "CMOS Databook" (and > yes, I _am_ a packrat when it comes to old databooks :-) > concerning the 27C16 (a very common older type of EPROM): No one that I have know of has taken note of the brevity of exposure to the light of a scanner or a copying machine. It seems to me that barring many repetitive exposures - and I mean MANY - the likelihood of damage is almost nil. And, of course, there is also the UV blocking of glass as well. Chicken Little, anyone? - don > Erasure Characteristics: > "... It should be noted that sunlight and certain types of > fluorescent lamps have wavelengths in the 3000 A - 4000 A > range. Data shows that constant exposure to room-level > flourescent lighting could erase the typical NMC27C16 in > approximately 3 Years, while it would take approximately > 1 week to cause erasure when exposed to direct sunlight..." > > Also, one must keep in mind that the timeframes listed > above are probably derived from studies of "freshly programmed" > eproms. Most of the ones we would be interested in would > already have a number of years of charge decay under their > belts. I was unable to find a reference to a finite lifetime > for UV Eproms, but I seem to vaguely recall that there is > a limit (~10 Years? sounds short, but I seem to remember > reading it somewhere. Does anyone have this number at hand?) > > The end result of all this is that if you have any equipment > you consider valuable, and it has windowed EPROMS, make certain > that the windows are covered with an opague sticker. You might > also consider dumping their contents to a data file for archival > purposes. (and possibly re-programming them to effectively > "refresh" them). > > -al- > -acorda@1bigred.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 4:16 PM > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... > > > > > > On Wed, 15 May 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > > > > What's everyone's thoughts on placing circuit boards directly on the > > > bed of a scanner for imaging? Any possibility of damage to > > the board > > > from the light or other parts of the scanner? I've done it before > > > with good results but not with anything truly unique. > > > > I'd be more concerned with accidentally scratching the glass > > bed of the > > scanner due to sharp component leads. I guess that there is a slight > > possibility of degrading the contents of an EPROM if its window isn't > > covered. The fluorescent tube the scanner uses to illuminate the bed > > really shouldn't be emitting too much in the way of UV or > > near UV light > > though. Other than UV erasable components that don't have their window > > covered, I can't think of anything else I'd be concerned about. > > > > -Toth > > > > _______________________________________________ > > cctalk mailing list > > cctalk@classiccmp.org > > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > > > > > _______________________________________________ > cctalk mailing list > cctalk@classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > _______________________________________________ cctalk mailing list cctalk@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu May 16 20:07:44 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] SCSI FDD In-Reply-To: <003901c1fd36$7e3a5d20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <003901c1fd36$7e3a5d20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: >Anybody know ehere to get SCSI floppy drives? >I understand that they work well with later DEC >like the vS3100's. (1.44 3.5" naturally). There was at least one SCSI floppy made for NeXT machines since the original cube didn't support an internal floppy. It would likely be 2.88 though. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From foo at siconic.com Thu May 16 20:39:55 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] OT: Software wanted In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020516181113.00a121e0@pop-server> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 May 2002, Gene Ehrich wrote: > I have an acquaintance who is collecting old copies of TurboTax and TaxCut. > Does anybody have any laying around that they would like to sell? What on Earth for? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu May 16 20:53:08 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] OT: Software wanted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As frequently as they release new versions, probably for the same reason as http://www.angelfire.com/my/aolcollection/ --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Sellam Ismail Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 21:40 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: [CCTALK] OT: Software wanted On Thu, 16 May 2002, Gene Ehrich wrote: > I have an acquaintance who is collecting old copies of TurboTax and TaxCut. > Does anybody have any laying around that they would like to sell? What on Earth for? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * _______________________________________________ cctalk mailing list cctalk@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk From rmoyers at nop.org Thu May 16 20:53:35 2002 From: rmoyers at nop.org (Raymond Moyers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] RE: [CCTECH] TRS-80 Model 1 List bifurcation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200205170153.g4H1rgU21364@Fubar.nop.org> On Thursday 16 May 2002 17:14, you wrote: > Is it just me, or has this list just become rediculously complicated? I > still don't know where I should be posting anything. And I don't really > care any more. If people miss out on my messages, well that's their > problem I'm afraid. Sacrifice to the God of political correctness we must. the bloodstained Left allways jump in your face in radical over reaction screaming shouting and waving the fake bloody shirt and other such tactics with the aim to banish any mention of ..... if one dare mention fact or metaphor that is "offensive" to these primadonnas, they go into mindless mob-mentality groupthink and erect their hangmans scaffolds, lite the torches and grab the pitchforks. this same intolerant mentality will be sitting at the triggers of machine guns opposite a fresh dug ditch when they finally get the total state power over you that they seek. I understand the thinking behind bifurcation of the list, but this wont quell the foamy mouth shout-down/shoot-down crowd that lay claim to that manufactured "civil" right to protection against speach that they find offensive. Raymond From lgwalker at mts.net Thu May 16 21:10:52 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Good Trip / good Score Message-ID: <3CE4205C.14075.605D4B6@localhost> Just did a trip to BC from Central Manitoba. That's in Canada, eh, Yank. Thanks to Alex W. I picked up a Dec Rainbow+ w/color card and a DEC VR240 and a DEC printer and some PS/2 stuff. Finally I have one as a DEC Rainbow should be - in color In Vancouver I hit the mother lode. I had also arranged to pick up there an Osborne I w/manuals, software, and a 12"x12" Summa graphics Tablet w/4 directional mouse. Also a box of viginal 8" diskettes. Van is great for yard sales and also they do a spring garbage blow-out. PICKIN" TIME !! An Amiga 1000 that I almost missed cause it was still in it's styro pkgng. Same garbage, a clean C-64C with PSU, nice 1802 , and a 1541 fdd. Mac keyboard, LT mouse, large wheel mouse, box of C64 disks, Lloyds TV Sports Gamer, and passed on a Tandy ARM at $15 (which I now regret.) 3x IBM newer PS/2 machines and an integrated AST, several 15' SVGA monitors. A box with about 50 TRS-80 zines A box of Intellivision carts and about 8 Adam tapes, A SHARP PC 3000. After cleaning out the battery compartment and using new batteries it worked. DOS 3.1 w/a pcmcia card whose Li. battery is surely dead as is the notepad's. And many non-computer items. The Sharp 3k is a neat little 8088 handheld about the size of an Atari Portfolio. Sharp brought it out after high sales of it's Poqet but retreated when some of the heavier-duty co's. attacked that market Based on the numerous site info it's a great machine related somehow to the HP95. At least it can use the HP PCMCIA's if I understood correctly.( IIUC) Anyone here a fan of this hand-held ? Lawrence lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From dougq at iglou.com Thu May 16 21:37:40 2002 From: dougq at iglou.com (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: List bifurcation Message-ID: <000501c1fd4b$d4ba05a0$72ecffcc@Shadow> On Thursday 16 May 2002 17:14, you wrote: > > Is it just me, or has this list just become rediculously complicated? I > > still don't know where I should be posting anything. And I don't really > > care any more. If people miss out on my messages, well that's their > > problem I'm afraid. Rest assured, Tony, you're coming through loud and clear... > Sacrifice to the God of political correctness we must. Wah, Wah, Waaaaaaaah!! Mommie, mean man won't let me scream! Jeezus, do ya'll want some cheese with that whine? ============================================================ Ok, Since we're OT here anyway, I have a stack of Calcomp Digitab III digitizer tablets, 16-button wireless pucks. Several are tested and packaged for sale, and I've been getting $75 to $150 apiece for them on E-Bay. I'd be interested in some possible trades for more vintage stuff. Please contact me off-list. I also have a limtited number of Kurta tablets for the Mac, with wired pucks, but they'll be out of reach until I can get the storage unit rent caught up. Ditto the off-list expression of interest... -dq From rmoyers at nop.org Thu May 16 21:40:40 2002 From: rmoyers at nop.org (Raymond Moyers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Good Trip/Score Dec Rainbow, preformatted media In-Reply-To: <3CE4205C.14075.605D4B6@localhost> References: <3CE4205C.14075.605D4B6@localhost> Message-ID: <200205170240.g4H2eeR21505@Fubar.nop.org> On Thursday 16 May 2002 21:10, you wrote: > Thanks to Alex W. I picked up a Dec Rainbow+ w/color card and a DEC > VR240 and a DEC printer Isnt that one of those machines that need preformatted media ? Im not very knowlegable about VAX variants but i read about a certain small vax 2000? prized for its ability to prepare hard disks (flaw map/disk label) for the larger vaxen that lacked the ability to do it themselves. Then there are those tape drives that cannot format their own media (all to force you to buy media from them) Perhaps others could name additional hardware with a intentional built-in dependancy to the OEM. Raymond From dougq at iglou.com Thu May 16 22:16:38 2002 From: dougq at iglou.com (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] RE: scanners & circuit boards.. Message-ID: <000b01c1fd51$47481850$72ecffcc@Shadow> > > EPROMs don't have UV-opaque glass windows, they have > > UV-transparent quartz windows. So they can be erased, > > but not by casual exposure. > > Yes, but every flatbed scanner I've ever seen has a flat > piece of glass on top (which is optically between the lamp > and the object-being-scanned). I can't believe they used > any special glass that was even moderately transparent to > UV -- it would be expensive and pointless. But regardless, scanning would be causal exposure, and such exposure (even if that glass were UV transparent) would be unlikely to be able to hurt the EPROM. But the only boards with EPROMs I've ever seen that *didn't* have labels covering the windows were ones I did myself or ones where the label glue had dried up and the label fell off. FWIW, I usually use silver write-protect tabs or the black vinyl ones for this purpose; I'd only use white paper on stuff that shipped so I could write a version number on them. Dunno if the tabs are available anymore, but I think I still have a supply... -dq From rmoyers at nop.org Thu May 16 22:18:48 2002 From: rmoyers at nop.org (Raymond Moyers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: First SGI Workstations? unix on 68k / mips In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784608@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784608@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: <200205170318.g4H3ImQ21597@Fubar.nop.org> On Thursday 16 May 2002 10:26, you wrote: > The IRIS 2000 was based on a motorola 680xx chip of some kind. > Their first smaller workstation was a "personal IRIS" system. It > was a tower case. After that, the Indigo. > > I know specifically that the first Indigos used R3000 CPUs, but > you'll have to look up the ones used in Personal IRIS and IRIS 2000. > > Also look at IRIS 3000, and IRIS Professional (I think those are the > ones) systems, which were produced in between. (In that order) It seems everyone started out with 68k chips then mips then ... didnt Sun use 68k then mips before sparc ? My old sony was the reference platform for unix on mips http://www.nop.org/misc/text/sony.unix.announcement.html http://www.nop.org/misc/unix/sony Raymond From vance at ikickass.org Thu May 16 22:36:13 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] OT: Software wanted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 16 May 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > I have an acquaintance who is collecting old copies of TurboTax and TaxCut. > > Does anybody have any laying around that they would like to sell? > > What on Earth for? It might be a weird-ass way (or weird ass-way -- whichever you prefer) of tracking tax law changes. Peace... Sridhar -- "How do you fight such a savage?" "With heart, faith, and steel. There can be only one." -MacLeod and Ramirez, "Highlander" From fernande at internet1.net Thu May 16 22:59:29 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] ebay auction for Vax 6000-310 References: <3CE344DF.7060008@internet1.net> <002a01c1fcca$603899c0$89469280@y5f3q8> <3CE3DDC5.30804@internet1.net> <002a01c1fd0b$0f353f60$a3469280@y5f3q8> Message-ID: <3CE48021.1040805@internet1.net> I think I saw this machine up on Ebay a few months back. I think he has tried a few times to sell it. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Robert Schaefer wrote: > Me too. If it doesn't sell (and honestly I don't expect it to) maybe I'll > drop him a line and see if I can persuade him to pull the cards 'n cabs. At > least that way the whole thing won't end up in a landfill. :( :( :( > Bob From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Thu May 16 23:01:58 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: scanners & circuit boards... Message-ID: <20020517040334.JTJW16252.imf13bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Davison, Lee > You can't scratch glass with metal. What you can do is leave > a thin trace of metal on the glass. Not to doubt your word, but in my experience metal can scratch glass. The glass counter-tops in my shop are scratched (not marked) from customers putting circuit boards on them. Glen 0/0 From lgwalker at mts.net Thu May 16 23:08:41 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Subdivide further Jay Message-ID: <3CE43BF9.23959.671B6E0@localhost> Damn after being away 2 weeks my mailbox was jammed with msg's. Here's a suggestion to cut down the traffic. I've long thought that CC should be subdivided into micros and minis. I imagine many scroll down the messages and delete anything related to DEC PDP, VAX, and any other mini stuff like I do, and I'm sure the mini and big iron people do the same. There seems to be almost a pattern of mini, then micro threads that happen as can be seen in the archives. I do occasionally enjoy the mini threads, but usually I just delete them. And that goes back to 97 or so. I also get the impression that the mini folk are annoyed in general with the micro traffic. Cool, don't spit on my Amiga and I won't spit on your PDP. It would be easy to subscribe to both lists for those who have a broader perspective, but would ease up on those of us who don't. Just looking to optimise my time. Lawrence lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Thu May 16 23:08:41 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] pitching stuff off rooftops In-Reply-To: <162.ddc6c06.2a156b4c@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CE43BFA.6623.671B70C@localhost> I had a friend in the early 60s who lived in a 2 story walk-up and when the finance man came to repossess his TV tossed it out the window exclaiming " You want your TV, here's your @#!@#$ TV" Lawrence > In a message dated 5/16/02 12:22:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > mythtech@mac.com writes: > > > > (I am still a little leary to toss a monitor off the top of my office > > building... I'm afraid I'll damage the asphalt... the landlord would kick my > > ass if I did that. But it is only 2 stories so I am thinking about it... I > > don't think a 14" monitor could build up enough energy to damage the parking > > lot on a 30 foot drop... I just haven't gotten the guts up to try it and find > > out) > > > > The problem with throwing stuff off rooftops is containing the debris, which, > with a monitor, is considerable. We have had lots of fun pitching stuff into a > 30 yard dumpster when we had one delivered. The first time we were in a seven > story warehouse with stuff on the 7th and 4th floors. > > A stereo system dropped from the seventh floor can literally jump out of the > dumpster upon impact. This was the first we tried. Containment works better when > there is a little debris in the bottom. The first few items jumped right out of > the dumpster, bouncing off the metal bottom. Of course they shatter when hitting > the bottom making a mess to clean up when they jumped into the street. > > We did this on a Sunday morning, I recommend checking when your local > authorities are not available. It makes a lot of noise and can attract > attention. In NW Portland Oregon no one came by. > > After cleaning the street up of the first items we moved to the 4th floor > where we had 60 Wang Terminal tubes to dispose of. These did not jump out of the > dumpster. The fall from the 4th floor was not as great. They made a great pop > when they hit the dumpster. It was a noisy morning. > > The Wang 2200 tubes were over 10 years old so it fits the criteria of the > list, not to mention this was also in 1989, more than 10 years ago. It was > before we realized the potential toxic hazard we were unleashing. > > Another time we had to despool several pallets of spooled wire. We took them up > to the roof and dropped the spools into the neighboring parking lot. If you > dropped them just right the spool would come apart and the coil of wire would > rise up about 6 or 8 feet off the ground. Did not damage the parking lot. Lots > of fun for work. > > A heavy aluminum or steel chassis will make marks in both concrete or > asphalt. Plastic shatters making a big mess. We preferred to restrain > ourselves until we had a dumpster to toss things into. Properly contained it can > be a lot of fun. > > Paxton > Astoria, OR > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Thu May 16 23:08:42 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] pitching stuff off rooftops In-Reply-To: <154.dfeb3f4.2a1571a9@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CE43BFA.22213.671B743@localhost> Paxton, you cool, you cool man ! I take it this was before the big Seattle warehouse with the pics we wandered in our fantasies and you displayed for us on CC. Has your wife an unmarried sister ? Lawrence > In a message dated 5/16/02 1:19:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Gary.Messick@itt.com writes: > > > > > ^^^^^^^^^ AAIIIIIEEE!!!! (How could you?) > > > It was not my choice, but my partner's. It was 1989, before I discovered the > list. We couldn't find anyone to sell them to. They are very expensive to store > for the next 10 or 20 years until they are valuable again. At that time I had no > idea they would ever be valuable again. My partner was a scrapper and we had to > move. > > Paxton > Astoria, OR > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From vance at ikickass.org Thu May 16 23:06:26 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: First SGI Workstations? unix on 68k / mips In-Reply-To: <200205170318.g4H3ImQ21597@Fubar.nop.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 May 2002, Raymond Moyers wrote: > > The IRIS 2000 was based on a motorola 680xx chip of some kind. > > Their first smaller workstation was a "personal IRIS" system. It > > was a tower case. After that, the Indigo. > > > > I know specifically that the first Indigos used R3000 CPUs, but > > you'll have to look up the ones used in Personal IRIS and IRIS 2000. > > > > Also look at IRIS 3000, and IRIS Professional (I think those are the > > ones) systems, which were produced in between. (In that order) > > It seems everyone started out with 68k chips then mips then ... > didnt Sun use 68k then mips before sparc ? Nope. 68K then (briefly, thank God) i386, then SPARC. Peace... Sridhar -- "How do you fight such a savage?" "With heart, faith, and steel. There can be only one." -MacLeod and Ramirez, "Highlander" From lgwalker at mts.net Thu May 16 23:08:42 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: Mac Classic - almost dead In-Reply-To: <20020515170545.24782.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> References: <003d01c1fa90$aa533920$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3CE43BFA.6935.671B775@localhost> C'mon Ethan. Dick sees bargains that most of us only dream about. And I expect also Dick has the same imaginary dreams. Denver is not exactly the mother-lode of computing. Now John Keyes jr I believe, but not sure how he does it. The SOB. Lawrence > > --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Well ... Monday and Tuesday are the "senior discount days" at thrift > > stores here in Denver. I'll see perhaps 25 different Mac's in the price > > range $5 ..$25, and the majority of those over $10 will probably be > > around for a week or so, and then be tossed into the dumptster because > > nobody has bought them. > > Ever see stuff as new as a 7200? I just got one for $10 at the local > Uni surplus w/96MB of RAM, and I didn't pick up its mate. Now, I'm > trying to populate another (bigger) machine, and I wish I had gotten > both. > > I have all the SE/30s I'll ever use (two) and plenty of Mac IIci > and other Motorola-based Macs. OTOH, if you start to see PPC Macs, > I'm interested for $10-$25. > > Thanks, > > -ethan > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience > http://launch.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > cctalk mailing list > cctalk@classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu May 16 23:14:45 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] OT: Software wanted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 16 May 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 16 May 2002, Gene Ehrich wrote: > > > I have an acquaintance who is collecting old copies of TurboTax and TaxCut. > > Does anybody have any laying around that they would like to sell? > > What on Earth for? You know, a guy said _exactly_ that to me 2 hours ago when I mentioned trying to build a 2.11BSD kernel on my PDP-11.... Doc From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu May 16 23:15:58 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] OT: Software wanted References: Message-ID: <3CE483FE.5E28232@jetnet.ab.ca> Doc wrote: > > On Thu, 16 May 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > On Thu, 16 May 2002, Gene Ehrich wrote: > > > > > I have an acquaintance who is collecting old copies of TurboTax and TaxCut. > > > Does anybody have any laying around that they would like to sell? > > > > What on Earth for? > > You know, a guy said _exactly_ that to me 2 hours ago when I mentioned > trying to build a 2.11BSD kernel on my PDP-11.... > > Doc Now how fast does it compile compared to the modern linux builds? Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu May 16 23:29:09 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Subdivide further Jay In-Reply-To: <3CE43BF9.23959.671B6E0@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at May 16, 2002 11:08:41 PM Message-ID: <200205170429.g4H4T9O27641@shell1.aracnet.com> > I've long thought that CC should be subdivided into micros and minis. > I imagine many scroll down the messages and delete anything related to > DEC PDP, VAX, and any other mini stuff like I do, and I'm sure the mini and > big iron people do the same. Well, as one of those 'mini and big iron people', I'd have to disagree. I've got both micros and bigger systems, while I no longer find time to do anything with my classic micros, and I'm finding it hard enough to work on my DEC gear, as well as finding hard to keep up with the list, I tend to read a fair amount of both types of posts. Zane From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu May 16 23:33:35 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] OT: Software wanted In-Reply-To: <3CE483FE.5E28232@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 May 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > Doc wrote: > > You know, a guy said _exactly_ that to me 2 hours ago when I mentioned > > trying to build a 2.11BSD kernel on my PDP-11.... > > > > Doc > Now how fast does it compile compared to the modern linux builds? "In a leisurely fashion...." :) Actually, not bad. I'm running a fairly minimal config - type 11/73, MSCP, net, DEQNA, TCPIP, and the module for vmstat & stuff. A build takes around 40 minutes. Doc From fernande at internet1.net Thu May 16 23:39:21 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Subdivide further Jay References: <3CE43BF9.23959.671B6E0@localhost> Message-ID: <3CE48979.7090008@internet1.net> Lawrence Walker wrote: > Damn after being away 2 weeks my mailbox was jammed with msg's. I'd certainly expect that after two weeks. > > Here's a suggestion to cut down the traffic. Hopefully, we'll see a reduction if off-topic posts with the new list setup. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From rmoyers at nop.org Thu May 16 23:52:19 2002 From: rmoyers at nop.org (Raymond Moyers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: First SGI Workstations? unix on 68k / mips In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200205170452.g4H4qKm21913@Fubar.nop.org> On Thursday 16 May 2002 23:06, you wrote: > Nope. 68K then (briefly, thank God) i386, then SPARC. Ok, Yes the 386 caught me by surprize.. Re: L@@K R@RE On-topic posting! (SunOS4.0.2) http://ftp.ecks.org/pub/users/eric/img/comp/386i Where Alan was looking for SunOS media to resurect his 386i Its not too hard to put my finger on why im so fond of old unix workstations. The period that extends from when the best box even the most upper class average joe nerd could afford was an altair, surplus pdp11 or later a trs80's running newdos/ldos extending on into the rampage/desqview and early OS/2 days All this old hardware now on ebay for scrap was droolware wishware, you certainly didnt think you would ever own one of them. Now CPUs run at microwave RF and even a cheaper crap wintel board puts them all to shame. and a nice unix to run on them is free w source. but that It hasnt done much to quench those old flames of desire. Raymond From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Fri May 17 00:14:10 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Rants Message-ID: <20020517051549.IQFT22872.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Raymond Moyers > I understand the thinking behind bifurcation of the list, > but this wont quell the foamy mouth shout-down/shoot-down > crowd that lay claim to that manufactured "civil" right > to protection against speach that they find offensive. Jay -- I find Mr. Moyers' speech to be offensive in the context of this list. In it, I found no reference to computers, or anything related to them. Additionally, he implicitly invokes our right to free speech, but seems to forget that this is a private mailing list, which means our rights may be limited here. As far as I understand it, we may say what we want on this list, but we may be banned from the list if we go too far. I think you have done a great job of splitting up the list and moving it to a new server and software. However, I would like to protect myself from Mr. Moyers' offensive rants. Since this is a private list, is there any mechanism for banishment of gross repeat offenders? It seems to me that very few subscribers would want to keep receiving the sort of messages Mr. Moyers continues to send. Glen 0/0 From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Fri May 17 00:55:09 2002 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] ebay auction - was: for Vax 6000-310 In-Reply-To: <3CE48021.1040805@internet1.net> Message-ID: <000701c1fd67$67031a80$4d4d2c0a@atx> Note that there is also an auction for a PDP 11/60 (Item # 2024637534) but a) it is in England (no problem for me there!) b) I'm not prepared to afford ?500 Andy From rmoyers at nop.org Fri May 17 02:35:28 2002 From: rmoyers at nop.org (Raymond Moyers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] SGI / DEC Flirtation with NT/mips alpha In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200205170735.g4H7ZSn22258@Fubar.nop.org> On Thursday 16 May 2002 23:06, you wrote: > Nope. ?68K then (briefly, thank God) i386, then SPARC. Then there are the other failed experiments where both DEC and SGI persued the winblows holy grail, damaging both companies. Dec has out in the field a bare few of these NT running alphas that for reasons im not certain of cannot run Unix ( something to do with the firmware ? other differences ? thats my understanding anyway) DEC also had some wintell hardware, and chasing the commodity PC market played a large part in the companies destruction IMO, leaving them weaked fodder to be swallowed by Compaq. If we was to count off all the former companies that are under the HP umbrella now, it would make quite a list, I cant name them all. SGI did the same thing, they too chased the winblows illusion with NT on mips and wintell boxes with SGI logos on them, again neglecting their core bussiness and expending funds and labor to enter a market where history teaches mickysoft does not tolerate anything they cant control. But just like Porsche people dismiss the 924 as not being a "real Porsche" the NT on alpha/mips and wintel hardware DEC's and SGI boxes are not real DEC's and SGI's in that view. Perhaps in the Sun 386i we see why Mr McNealy didnt destroy his company falling all over themselves at Bill G's feet along with DEC and SGI, they had been there, done the intel thing already. ;=) Raymond "The First Amendment...begins with the five loveliest words in the English language: 'Congress shall make no law'." --George Will From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri May 17 03:31:45 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Commodore 1541 Drive In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "May 16, 2 11:21:39 pm" Message-ID: <200205170831.BAA27862@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > That being said, since the 1541 is an intelligent peripheral I suppose you > > could reprogram it to read Apple floppies, but this would require a lot of > > I'm not convinced you can. The lowest levels of the GCR encoding/decoding > are done in hardware both for the Apple Disk II and the 1541, and I don't > think they're compatible. And on most 1541s the logic is inside a > Commodore gate array chip (There is a version which uses TTL + ROM, > though), so it would be non-trivial to modify. If you mean a dedicated IC doing the GCR encoding/decoding in the 1541, the 6502 is actually doing the decoding when it's in FDC mode, and this can be easily intercepted (see "Inside Commodore DOS") -- the idea is write your own driver code into RAM (what little RAM there is), leave an EXECUTE job code to point to your routine, and when the 6502 next drops into FDC mode, your routine will take over the unit exclusively and you can do your work without interference. The ROM routines for GCR interconversion start at $f6d0 (starting at page 418 in the Inside C= DOS memory map). That being said, you'd have to resort to driving the 6522s yourself to manipulate the bitstream directly -- very low-level, and of course with the small amount of RAM in the 1541 this would require impressively tight code. But it is, theoretically, possible at least on some level, even if it's merely decoding the bytes and handing them off to the C64 for processing (putting the "DOS" in the 64). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Had this been an actual emergency, we would have fled already. ------------- From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri May 17 06:08:48 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Subject Lines In-Reply-To: <3CE2E6A8.320725E1@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> References: <200205152122.g4FLM5E16930@shell1.aracnet.com> <3CE2E6A8.320725E1@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> Message-ID: <20020517130848.A86415@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Wed, May 15, 2002 at 11:52:24PM +0100, Paul Williams wrote: > I'd like to vote to get rid of them altogether. I'm quite capable of > filtering list mail into folders without them. \begin{AOL} Mee 2! \end{AOL} That subject mangling is IMHO plain useless. (and the auto added footer too.) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From rmoyers at nop.org Fri May 17 06:13:15 2002 From: rmoyers at nop.org (Raymond Moyers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Rants, List Bifurcation In-Reply-To: <20020517051549.IQFT22872.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> References: <20020517051549.IQFT22872.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <200205171113.g4HBDF922701@Fubar.nop.org> On Friday 17 May 2002 00:14, you wrote: > > From: Raymond Moyers > > > > I understand the thinking behind bifurcation of the list, > > but this wont quell the foamy mouth shout-down/shoot-down > > crowd that lay claim to that manufactured "civil" right > > to protection against speech that they find offensive. > > Jay -- > > I find Mr. Moyers' speech to be offensive in the context of this list. "...The Left's First Amendment would read 'Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech, etc. ... providing such speech or activities do not offend. If any offense is taken, citizen whiners, being necessary to the security of a politically correct state, shall from time to time suppress the offender's free speech rights by any means necessary, including, but not limited to, required sensitivity training, re-education, and loss of income'." --Edwin Feulner "If winning is the only value, why debate when you can suppress?" --John Leo "'No tolerance' means more than just a warning, because that would mean tolerance." --Dry Creek Elementary School Principal Darci Mickle, of Centennial, Colorado, discussing seven fourth-graders sent home from school, then sentenced to a week's lunchtime detention, for violating "zero tolerance" policies; the boys, playing a game of soldiers and aliens, pointed their fingers like firearms during the mock battles. A lot has been said about the "good Germans, who said nothing" what is missing from most of it is why they were silent and how they where silenced, "Being a lover of freedom, when the [Nazi] revolution came, I looked to the universities to defend it, knowing that they had always boasted of their devotion to the cause of truth; but no, the universities were immediately silenced. Then I looked to the great editors of the newspapers, whose flaming editorials in days gone had proclaimed their love of freedom; but they, like the universities, were silenced in a few short weeks.... Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler's campaign for suppressing the truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great affection and admiration for it because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual and moral freedom. I am forced to confess that what I once despised I now praise unreservedly." --Albert Einstein Its a tactic of the left to purge any casual mention of their bloodstained past from all forums the same way the NAZIs silenced their opposition in the last days of the Wiemar republic. All lists have their brushfires and posts that look like bait, but the fires consume their fuel and extingush themselves, and even the most intrangent will soon enough notice he is off in the ditch and steer himself back between the stripes. Those of us that are accustomed to American freedom, and what that means grant latitude to the voice and actions of others automatically, knowing that the license we grant to others directly supports our own. In my opinion, i would have routed those clamoring for "control" to /dev/null , once you act on the desires of the control freaks you empower them with the ability of the always used tactic of making such a clamor that you in effect hand over all power to them to shut them up. a tactic that works all too often. Raymond From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri May 17 06:27:28 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: First SGI Workstations? In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784608@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784608@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: <20020517132728.B86415@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, May 16, 2002 at 10:26:47AM -0500, Christopher Smith wrote: > They have a "periodic table of IRISes." Google ought to have some > of them. You mean: http://www.sgi.com/features/2002/jan/20th/timeline.html ? -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jfoust at threedee.com Fri May 17 06:14:23 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Rants In-Reply-To: <20020517051549.IQFT22872.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020517061139.02742d78@pc> At 01:14 AM 5/17/2002 -0400, Glen Goodwin wrote: >I think you have done a great job of splitting up the list and moving it to >a new server and software. However, I would like to protect myself from >Mr. Moyers' offensive rants. Since this is a private list, is there any >mechanism for banishment of gross repeat offenders? I think the obvious answer comes from the Church of the Subgenius: your first duty as a member is to form your own splinter sect. By putting each Classic Computer Collector in their own separate mailing list, we'll reduce the number of offended, minus those who can successfully argue with themselves either by virtue of nature, nuture or medication. - John From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Fri May 17 06:48:03 2002 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Rants, List Bifurcation In-Reply-To: <200205171113.g4HBDF922701@Fubar.nop.org> References: <20020517051549.IQFT22872.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> <20020517051549.IQFT22872.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020517073736.00a3a860@sokieserv.dhs.org> Ok Ray, you can shut up now. This has nothing to do with anything really except the search for attention and obvious stupidity. You win at that front and I may even go as far as nominating you for a Darwin award (with ignorance such as yours, I'm more than sure something life threatening will be brought upon itself with you - grabbing bare wires, bitching out an armed assailant, stepping in front of a bus, etc. - ok, I can hope). And since you've proven your complete worthlessness as a human being, I must now a) put you on my filter of idiots to ignore and b) report you to the Church of Scientology; I am pleased to tell you that you've made such an ass out of yourself that you'd fit right in. Congratulations jerk. Jay, you're right and I hope something can be done about this waste of zygote. Glen: you're right again. I hope my comments made you feel a little better about this post string. -John At 07:13 AM 5/17/02, you wrote: >On Friday 17 May 2002 00:14, you wrote: > > > From: Raymond Moyers > > > > > > I understand the thinking behind bifurcation of the list, > > > but this wont quell the foamy mouth shout-down/shoot-down > > > crowd that lay claim to that manufactured "civil" right > > > to protection against speech that they find offensive. > > > > Jay -- > > > > I find Mr. Moyers' speech to be offensive in the context of this list. > >"...The Left's First Amendment would read 'Congress shall make >no law ... abridging the freedom of speech, etc. ... providing >such speech or activities do not offend. If any offense is >taken, citizen whiners, being necessary to the security of a >politically correct state, shall from time to time suppress the >offender's free speech rights by any means necessary, including, >but not limited to, required sensitivity training, re-education, >and loss of income'." --Edwin Feulner > > "If winning is the only value, why debate when you can suppress?" > --John Leo > > "'No tolerance' means more than just a warning, because that would > mean tolerance." --Dry Creek Elementary School Principal Darci Mickle, > of Centennial, Colorado, discussing seven fourth-graders sent home from > school, then sentenced to a week's lunchtime detention, for violating > "zero tolerance" policies; the boys, playing a game of soldiers and aliens, > pointed their fingers like firearms during the mock battles. > > A lot has been said about the "good Germans, who said nothing" > what is missing from most of it is why they were silent and how > they where silenced, > > "Being a lover of freedom, when the [Nazi] revolution came, > I looked to the universities to defend it, knowing that they had > always boasted of their devotion to the cause of truth; > but no, the universities were immediately silenced. > > Then I looked to the great editors of the newspapers, > whose flaming editorials in days gone had proclaimed their > love of freedom; but they, like the universities, were silenced in a > few short weeks.... > > Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler's > campaign for suppressing the truth. > > I never had any special interest in the Church before, but > now I feel a great affection and admiration for it because > the Church alone has had the courage and persistence > to stand for intellectual and moral freedom. > > I am forced to confess that what I once despised I now praise > unreservedly." --Albert Einstein > > Its a tactic of the left to purge any casual mention of their bloodstained > past from all forums the same way the NAZIs silenced their opposition > in the last days of the Wiemar republic. > > All lists have their brushfires and posts that look like bait, but the > fires consume their fuel and extingush themselves, and even the > most intrangent will soon enough notice he is off in the ditch > and steer himself back between the stripes. > > Those of us that are accustomed to American freedom, and what > that means grant latitude to the voice and actions of others > automatically, knowing that the license we grant to others > directly supports our own. > > In my opinion, i would have routed those clamoring for "control" > to /dev/null , once you act on the desires of the control freaks > you empower them with the ability of the always used tactic > of making such a clamor that you in effect hand over all power > to them to shut them up. a tactic that works all too often. > > Raymond > >_______________________________________________ >cctalk mailing list >cctalk@classiccmp.org >http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From rmoyers at nop.org Fri May 17 07:15:56 2002 From: rmoyers at nop.org (Raymond Moyers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Rants In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020517061139.02742d78@pc> References: <5.0.0.25.0.20020517061139.02742d78@pc> Message-ID: <200205171215.g4HCFvu22855@Fubar.nop.org> On Friday 17 May 2002 06:14, you wrote: > I think the obvious answer comes from the Church of the Subgenius: > your first duty as a member is to form your own splinter sect. > > By putting each Classic Computer Collector in their own > separate mailing list, we'll reduce the number of offended, > minus those who can successfully argue with themselves > either by virtue of nature, nuture or medication. Arent there variants of Eliza type programs that can do just that ? A lefty bot would be easy to program, it would need only the standard reflexive stack of responses, and need have no input or sensation of reality. Raymond Jimmy Carter said Monday he saw no evidence that Cuba makes biological weapons. Last year he saw no evidence North Korea makes nuclear weapons. It doesn't look dignified when a former president campaigns that openly to be Archbishop of Boston. . -- Argus Hamilton From rmoyers at nop.org Fri May 17 07:51:06 2002 From: rmoyers at nop.org (Raymond Moyers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: First SGI Workstations? In-Reply-To: <20020517132728.B86415@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784608@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> <20020517132728.B86415@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <200205171251.g4HCpFl22938@Fubar.nop.org> On Friday 17 May 2002 06:27, you wrote: > On Thu, May 16, 2002 at 10:26:47AM -0500, Christopher Smith wrote: > > They have a "periodic table of IRISes." Google ought to have some > > of them. > > You mean: http://www.sgi.com/features/2002/jan/20th/timeline.html ? Try this one http://www.irisindigo.com/periodic.php3 Raymond "A belief in moral absolutes should always make us more, not less, critical of both sides in any conflict. This doesn't mean that both sides are equally wrong; it means that since we all fall short of moral perfection, even the side whose cause is truly righteous may commit terrible acts of violence in defense of that cause - - and, worse, may feel quite justified in committing them. That is the difference between being righteous and being self-righteous. Moral standards are absolute; but human fidelity to them is always relative." --Joseph Sobran From dougq at iglou.com Fri May 17 08:10:59 2002 From: dougq at iglou.com (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] RE: Rants Message-ID: <000701c1fda4$4acb35e0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > On Friday 17 May 2002 06:14, you wrote: > > > I think the obvious answer comes from the Church of the Subgenius: > > your first duty as a member is to form your own splinter sect. > > > > By putting each Classic Computer Collector in their own > > separate mailing list, we'll reduce the number of offended, > > minus those who can successfully argue with themselves > > either by virtue of nature, nuture or medication. > > Arent there variants of Eliza type programs that can do just that ? Raymond, some of us were wondering if it might not be the case that Raymond Moyers was such a program... > A lefty bot would be easy to program, it would need only > the standard reflexive stack of responses, and need have > no input or sensation of reality. Which would be no different than a righty bot, a Scientology Bot, etc. > Raymond > > Jimmy Carter said Monday he saw no evidence that Cuba makes > biological weapons. Last year he saw no evidence North Korea > makes nuclear weapons. It doesn't look dignified when a former > president campaigns that openly to be Archbishop of Boston. . > -- Argus Hamilton ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Although I don't think *anyone* on the list cares, it is usual and customary, when quoting people who are not widely known by a particular readership, to provide a statement as to who the person is who is being quoted. For example: > -- Argus Hamilton, right-wing comedian Otherwise, such quotes fall out of the category of commentary and into the category of propaganda... If you really are motivated by an altruistic desire to enlighten people with whom you view you have something special in common (the interest or love of vintage computing systems), let me tell you, the way you (and others) go about it does not work. OTOH, if self-expression is your goal, why not just set up a web page and thread it onto as many search engines as you can, and perhaps include a url in your .sig that points to it? Or join in one of the many unmoderated USENET newsgroups which deal with this sort of communication by design? Again, you have clearly have good experience with Unix systems which the list would benefit from. But if you keep this ranting up, everyone will just start to filter you out. -dq From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Fri May 17 08:28:59 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Rants References: <5.0.0.25.0.20020517061139.02742d78@pc> Message-ID: <3CE5059B.2050706@dragonsweb.org> John Foust wrote: > At 01:14 AM 5/17/2002 -0400, Glen Goodwin wrote: > >>I think you have done a great job of splitting up the list and moving it to >>a new server and software. However, I would like to protect myself from >>Mr. Moyers' offensive rants. Since this is a private list, is there any >>mechanism for banishment of gross repeat offenders? > > > I think the obvious answer comes from the Church of the Subgenius: > your first duty as a member is to form your own splinter sect. > > By putting each Classic Computer Collector in their own > separate mailing list, we'll reduce the number of offended, > minus those who can successfully argue with themselves > either by virtue of nature, nuture or medication. > > - John > ROTFLMAO. The really funny thing is I'm looking at a way you could actually do this, in effect. jbdigriz From Fritz_Chwolka at t-online.de Fri May 17 09:39:29 2002 From: Fritz_Chwolka at t-online.de (Fritz Chwolka) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: [CCTECH] Keycap cleaning strategy In-Reply-To: <10205160805.ZM12880@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <178hng-0gog9QC@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> Re: [CCTALK] Re: [CCTECH] Keycap cleaning strategy Must there be those fuckin [CCTALK] Re: [CCTECH] be in every subject. It seemd as if people are making old mistakes. Greetings from Fritz Chwolka - Duisburg / collecting old computers just for fun at www.alterechner.de \ From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri May 17 08:37:54 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Good Trip / good Score Message-ID: I have a copy of the SunDisk Flash RAM card driver for the 3000 (and for the HP95LX), as well as SunDisk card FDISK and FORMAT programs. If anyone wants them, email me off-list at robert_feldman(at)jdedwards(dot)com. -----Original Message----- From: Lawrence Walker [mailto:lgwalker@mts.net] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 9:11 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [CCTALK] Good Trip / good Score A SHARP PC 3000. After cleaning out the battery compartment and using new batteries it worked. DOS 3.1 w/a pcmcia card whose Li. battery is surely dead as is the notepad's. And many non-computer items. The Sharp 3k is a neat little 8088 handheld about the size of an Atari Portfolio. Sharp brought it out after high sales of it's Poqet but retreated when some of the heavier-duty co's. attacked that market Based on the numerous site info it's a great machine related somehow to the HP95. At least it can use the HP PCMCIA's if I understood correctly.( IIUC) Anyone here a fan of this hand-held ? From foo at siconic.com Fri May 17 09:19:14 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Commodore 1541 Drive In-Reply-To: <200205170831.BAA27862@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 May 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > That being said, you'd have to resort to driving the 6522s yourself to > manipulate the bitstream directly -- very low-level, and of course with the > small amount of RAM in the 1541 this would require impressively tight code. > But it is, theoretically, possible at least on some level, even if it's > merely decoding the bytes and handing them off to the C64 for processing > (putting the "DOS" in the 64). Programming 6522's is not that difficult (I've done it before and I'm working on a project right now that uses one). Isn't there 4K of RAM inside each 1541? That's a goodly amount of RAM for disk drivers. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri May 17 09:23:29 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Rants, List Bifurcation In-Reply-To: <200205171113.g4HBDF922701@Fubar.nop.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 May 2002, Raymond Moyers wrote: > Those of us that are accustomed to American freedom, and what > that means grant latitude to the voice and actions of others > automatically, knowing that the license we grant to others > directly supports our own. This is all fine, but please practice your free (rambling) speech on some other mailing list, Patrick Henry. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rmoyers at nop.org Fri May 17 09:44:45 2002 From: rmoyers at nop.org (Raymond Moyers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] RE: Rants In-Reply-To: <000701c1fda4$4acb35e0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> References: <000701c1fda4$4acb35e0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <200205171444.g4HEijP23216@Fubar.nop.org> On Friday 17 May 2002 08:10, you wrote: > > -- Argus Hamilton > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Although I don't think *anyone* on the list cares, it is > usual and customary, when quoting people who are not widely > known by a particular readership, to provide a statement as > > to who the person is who is being quoted. For example: > > -- Argus Hamilton, right-wing comedian > > Otherwise, such quotes fall out of the category of commentary > and into the category of propaganda... And is response, this one seems apropos The cavalier attitude toward historical truth has reached epidemic proportions - has in fact become part of the intellectual furniture of our age, something presupposed rather than argued for. One sign of this situation is the horror with which the idea of 'objective truth' is regarded in certain academic circles today. Another is the widespread tendency to downgrade facts to matters of opinion -- a tendency that follows naturally from the rejection of objective truth. This shows itself in the amazingly prevalent assumption that truth is 'relative,' i.e., that the truth of what is said depends crucially on the interests, prejudices, and even the sex or ethnic origin of the speaker, rather than on - - well, the truth or falsity of what the speaker says. The basic idea is that truth is somehow invented rather than discovered. The irony that attends this triumph of interpretation over facts is that it ultimately undermines fact. When facts are downgraded to opinions, they no longer have the authority of facts; but opinions without the bedrock of facts deliquesce into whims. Opinion remains opinion only so long as it is grounded in, and can be corrected by, fact. What is at stake in the confusion of fact and opinion .. .. is nothing less than the common world of factual realtiy and historical truth." -- Roger Kimball, "In Defense of Facts" > Again, you have clearly have good experience with Unix systems > which the list would benefit from. But if you keep this ranting > up, everyone will just start to filter you out. That would be great, my mailer has a twit filter as do most others i could name, and that would be the proper action to take. When you make use of your twit filter you supress only your own senses, for bad or good. This is not the same as those that embark on their own crusade, not satisfied with control of their own twit filter, but at supression, that is in effect the co opting of control of everyone elses filter See its not their own viewscreen they attempt to filter, but the aim is to filter the viewscreens of everyone else. Its not that they are concerned by what they might hear the aim is to prevent anyone else from hearing it. You should look at what happens when a conservative speaker dares accept an invitation at todays leftist controled universities, the intolerance and behavior of these new leftist brown shirts scares to the very core. My interest in this list is the same as the topic of this list, i dont join in technical forums to evangelize politics or bash winblows any more than the others ive seen here, even you have voiced your own concern that you be forced to wash your posts in too much detergent. Poltical commentary in passing, metaphor, a jab in the ribs, humor, winblows bashing, totaly baseless calling others "stupid" Well cest la vie. My reservations about the list bifurcation is only the maint load on the maintainer, it would seem to me that once the maintinace required becomes non-trivial the eventual outcome is to toss in the towel all together. So you are basically left with two choices, let the touchie-feelie intolerants force their demand for sterility, at which time they, as always would simply rachet up their demands or route all the demonstrating and placard waving to /dev/null and allow them to find a more wobbly object on which to press their "power process". Raymond "Double standards, inevitably, erode honesty. ..Intolerance poses as tolerance, and the double-entry bookkeeping leads to deception. It's all a house of cards, bound to collapse sooner or later. Sooner would be better." --John Leo From allain at panix.com Fri May 17 09:52:38 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] RE: Rants References: <000701c1fda4$4acb35e0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> <200205171444.g4HEijP23216@Fubar.nop.org> Message-ID: <010101c1fdb2$7db98200$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Whatever. I'm here for classicomp, so I haven't read em. ja From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Fri May 17 09:55:07 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (Dave Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] RE: [CCTECH] TRS-80 Model 1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <144104E5-69A6-11D6-845A-0050E405035C@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> On Thursday, May 16, 2002, at 06:14 PM, Tony Duell wrote: >> >> On Wed, 15 May 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: >> >>> Well, not really. cctech is moderated, to help block spam, and >>> keep out the OT messages. it is also sent to cctalk, so everyone can see >>> all the messages. cctalk is just that. A big room full of conversations >>> that go anywhere... >> >> Wait a second. So if I'm in CCTECH and I post a message, it then goes to >> both lists. Fine. >> >> But what if people in CCTALK start replying to it and begin a thread. Do >> those messages go back to CCTECH or CCTALK? > > Is it just me, or has this list just become rediculously complicated? I > still don't know where I should be posting anything. And I don't really > care any more. If people miss out on my messages, well that's their > problem I'm afraid. > > This reminds me of what happened to another mailing list I am on. We had > a mild spam problem about 3 years ago, and the list set-up was changed. > It virtually killed the list. Before the changes (but even after the spam > attack) we had perhaps 5-10 messages a day. Now we're lucky to have 2 a > week. Oh well... > > -tony Tony, my suggestion (to everybody) is to just subscribe, and post to, CCTALK. It's un-moderated, just as the list was last week. -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From mtapley at swri.edu Fri May 17 09:50:46 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Good Trip/Score Dec Rainbow, preformatted media Message-ID: >From: Raymond Moyers : .... >> Thanks to Alex W. I picked up a Dec Rainbow+ w/color card and a DEC >> VR240 and a DEC printer > > Isnt that one of those machines that need preformatted media ? > > Im not very knowlegable about VAX variants but i read about > a certain small vax 2000? prized for its ability to prepare > hard disks (flaw map/disk label) for the larger vaxen that > lacked the ability to do it themselves. Rainbow *can* format its own floppies. There is a similar DEC machine (Pro? Decmate? Help, somebody?) that cannot, and some Rainbows make their living as formatters for people that own the other machine. I don't know whether there's an analogous situation for VAX 2000, etc. The inability to format own media *is* a major and needless PITA, one of DEC's crummier decisions, IMO. - Mark From edick at idcomm.com Fri May 17 10:08:05 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Subdivide further Jay References: <3CE43BF9.23959.671B6E0@localhost> Message-ID: <003501c1fdb4$b14c6900$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Now, I'm not trying to start any sort of debate about the merits of one OS over another ... BUT ... if you happen to use Internet Explorer, you can set up message rules (filters) to sort the mail into the "list" and "others" and further subdivide the "list:" mailbox into "big-iron" and "micros" and anything else you want to notice. You can simply tell it to mark messages you don't want to spend time reading as already read. I doubt that other mail programs are so weak-kneed that they can't in one form or another, perhaps with the aid of a script, do the same, so YOU don't have to spend the time on it. It's your computer, and it's up to you how you use it. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Walker" To: Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 10:08 PM Subject: [CCTALK] Subdivide further Jay > Damn after being away 2 weeks my mailbox was jammed with msg's. > > Here's a suggestion to cut down the traffic. > > I've long thought that CC should be subdivided into micros and minis. > I imagine many scroll down the messages and delete anything related to > DEC PDP, VAX, and any other mini stuff like I do, and I'm sure the mini and > big iron people do the same. > > There seems to be almost a pattern of mini, then micro threads that happen > as can be seen in the archives. I do occasionally enjoy the mini threads, but > usually I just delete them. And that goes back to 97 or so. I also get the > impression that the mini folk are annoyed in general with the micro traffic. > Cool, don't spit on my Amiga and I won't spit on your PDP. > > It would be easy to subscribe to both lists for those who have a broader > perspective, but would ease up on those of us who don't. > > Just looking to optimise my time. > > Lawrence > lgwalker@mts.net > bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > cctalk mailing list > cctalk@classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri May 17 10:10:46 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Subdivide further Jay References: <200205170429.g4H4T9O27641@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <003f01c1fdb5$0d000ea0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> There's a good point to be made here, i.e. we can learn from what problems and solutions participants in the "ancient computers" game encounter, irrespective of the focus of their interests. Of course, you CAN search the archive later, I guess. It's happened more than once that I've seen a solution to a problem similar to my own, that I wouldn't have seen if my reading had been so provincially based as to filter out systems of one sort or another. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [CCTALK] Subdivide further Jay > > I've long thought that CC should be subdivided into micros and minis. > > I imagine many scroll down the messages and delete anything related to > > DEC PDP, VAX, and any other mini stuff like I do, and I'm sure the mini and > > big iron people do the same. > > Well, as one of those 'mini and big iron people', I'd have to disagree. > I've got both micros and bigger systems, while I no longer find time to do > anything with my classic micros, and I'm finding it hard enough to work on > my DEC gear, as well as finding hard to keep up with the list, I tend to > read a fair amount of both types of posts. > > Zane > _______________________________________________ > cctalk mailing list > cctalk@classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri May 17 10:14:22 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Rants References: <20020517051549.IQFT22872.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <004b01c1fdb5$901e5760$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> If someone's views offend you, you can filter them off into a mailbox of their own, and either read them or not, depending on your mood. That's your right and privilege, and, perhaps, duty, since it certainly shouldn't be Jay's job to accomodate everyone's individual preferences, quirks, and foibles. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glen Goodwin" To: Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 11:14 PM Subject: [CCTALK] Rants > > From: Raymond Moyers > > > I understand the thinking behind bifurcation of the list, > > but this wont quell the foamy mouth shout-down/shoot-down > > crowd that lay claim to that manufactured "civil" right > > to protection against speach that they find offensive. > > Jay -- > > I find Mr. Moyers' speech to be offensive in the context of this list. In > it, I found no reference to computers, or anything related to them. > Additionally, he implicitly invokes our right to free speech, but seems to > forget that this is a private mailing list, which means our rights may be > limited here. As far as I understand it, we may say what we want on this > list, but we may be banned from the list if we go too far. > > I think you have done a great job of splitting up the list and moving it to > a new server and software. However, I would like to protect myself from > Mr. Moyers' offensive rants. Since this is a private list, is there any > mechanism for banishment of gross repeat offenders? It seems to me that > very few subscribers would want to keep receiving the sort of messages Mr. > Moyers continues to send. > > Glen > 0/0 > > _______________________________________________ > cctalk mailing list > cctalk@classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > > From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Fri May 17 10:23:14 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (Dave Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:28 2005 Subject: D/UX 3.2C (and some Re: [CCTALK] Rants) In-Reply-To: <20020517051549.IQFT22872.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <016498B4-69AA-11D6-845A-0050E405035C@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> On Friday, May 17, 2002, at 01:14 AM, Glen Goodwin wrote: >> From: Raymond Moyers > >> I understand the thinking behind bifurcation of the list, >> but this wont quell the foamy mouth shout-down/shoot-down >> crowd that lay claim to that manufactured "civil" right >> to protection against speach that they find offensive. > > Jay -- > > I find Mr. Moyers' speech to be offensive in the context of this list... > > I think you have done a great job of splitting up the list and moving it > to > a new server and software... Glen, thank you for saying what I've thought about saying, but haven't had a chance to put together the proper words. As for Raymond Moyers, when is he going to stop his way-too-longwinded quotes of other people, and start thinking for himself? G** d***! I never thought that someone could read -too- much. Methinks Ray needs to get out of the Political-Science section of the library, and have a life or something... Why does he fel the need to waste our bandwidth & time with his political views, which are always irrelevant to the discussion at hand? Sorry about my rant. i had to get it off my chest. And now, back to your regularly scheduled programming... Where is a good repository for Digital UNIX 3.2C software? I mean, stuff that would have been on my DEC 3000/400 when it was shipped new with D/UX 3.2C... Or does anyone have a packing list from that kind of setup, that would say what would have been on it? I do believe this workstation just makes the 10 year cut off... :) -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From csmith at amdocs.com Fri May 17 10:24:50 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] SGI / DEC Flirtation with NT/mips alpha Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E0178461D@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Moyers [mailto:rmoyers@nop.org] > Dec has out in the field a bare few of these NT running > alphas that for reasons im not certain of cannot run Unix > ( something to do with the firmware ? other differences ? > thats my understanding anyway) On some systems, it was, indeed, only firmware. The reason that VMS, or OSF/1 didn't work on these varies, though, from "just firmware" to "we did something strange with the design of this one." Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' -------------- next part -------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this message is proprietary of Amdocs, protected from disclosure, and may be privileged. The information is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s) of the message. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, use, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri May 17 11:16:20 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Commodore 1541 Drive In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "May 17, 2 07:19:14 am" Message-ID: <200205171616.JAA27888@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > That being said, you'd have to resort to driving the 6522s yourself to > > manipulate the bitstream directly -- very low-level, and of course with the > > small amount of RAM in the 1541 this would require impressively tight code. > > But it is, theoretically, possible at least on some level, even if it's > > merely decoding the bytes and handing them off to the C64 for processing > > (putting the "DOS" in the 64). > > Programming 6522's is not that difficult (I've done it before and I'm > working on a project right now that uses one). Isn't there 4K of RAM > inside each 1541? That's a goodly amount of RAM for disk drivers. 2K, actually, and some of that space is microprocessor stack and various work areas for the ROM routines for the FDC's tasks, some of which you would probably want to use for space reasons. The safest place is in the buffers from $0300-$07ff, which is only 1.25K. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- To err is human -- to forgive is not company policy. ----------------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri May 17 11:21:10 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Rants In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020517061139.02742d78@pc> from John Foust at "May 17, 2 06:14:23 am" Message-ID: <200205171621.JAA28442@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > By putting each Classic Computer Collector in their own > separate mailing list, we'll reduce the number of offended, > minus those who can successfully argue with themselves > either by virtue of nature, nuture or medication. Excellent. Dibs on CCCKTALK. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Why, I'd horsewhip you if I had a horse! -- Groucho Marx ------------------- From foo at siconic.com Fri May 17 11:47:26 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Commodore 1541 Drive In-Reply-To: <200205171616.JAA27888@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 May 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > 2K, actually, and some of that space is microprocessor stack and various > work areas for the ROM routines for the FDC's tasks, some of which you > would probably want to use for space reasons. The safest place is in the > buffers from $0300-$07ff, which is only 1.25K. Ok, but to me, that's still a decent amount of memory ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From appleone at mac.com Fri May 17 09:50:17 2002 From: appleone at mac.com (Steve Christensen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: Tax Software Wanted Message-ID: Gene, I have the last 3 years of TaxCut for the Macintosh. Tell him to make an offer if he is interested. Thanks, Steve -- From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Fri May 17 12:42:29 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] List problems? Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467978@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Hello? Is there anybody out there? Traffic from this list completely and suddenly stopped... Seems odd, considering the way some of the threads were going... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri May 17 12:57:28 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] LIST ADMIN RE: Rants (RAYMOND MOYERS) References: <000701c1fda4$4acb35e0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <001701c1fdcc$4f6d3f80$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP> It was written... > Again, you have clearly have good experience with Unix systems > which the list would benefit from. But if you keep this ranting > up, everyone will just start to filter you out. In reference to Raymond Moyers.... Ray, I have admonished you in private to stop the political/philosophical discussion here. I am now proceeding to do it in public as you obviously haven't listened. Your last post was clearly off-topic, and illustrates a growing (some would argue "well established") trend. This is your last warning to refrain from political/philosophical rhetoric. If it happens again, you will receive no further warnings (other than any list traffic to you ceasing rather suddenly). I have never banned a member from this list (even though some have begged me to do so). You are just about to cross the line and become the first. Jay West From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri May 17 13:00:40 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Subdivide further Jay References: <3CE43BF9.23959.671B6E0@localhost> Message-ID: <004901c1fdcc$c1eff9d0$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Someone wrote... > I've long thought that CC should be subdivided into micros and minis. > I imagine many scroll down the messages and delete anything related to > DEC PDP, VAX, and any other mini stuff like I do, and I'm sure the mini and > big iron people do the same. At some point that might not be a bad idea, but... I'm not really in favor of that at this point. There is just too many threads that are applicable to both. The recent discussion about PROM burners and such being a good example. Cleaning techniques, repair, etc. Unless something changes, I think it's in both groups interest to stay together. Jay West From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri May 17 13:15:37 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES) References: Message-ID: <00aa01c1fdce$d887e700$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Someone wrote... >So far so good, except there are about 5 > cctalk digests per day. Can the list admin/maintainer set things so one > digest message is sent per day, instead of several smaller ones? That kind of > defeats the object of having a digest version. The [CCTALK] header in subject lines is now gone. If you want to automatically filter classiccmp traffic to an alternate mailbox, just use the sender address instead of searching the subject. The [CCTALK] footer is gone. Digests are sent once a day no matter what, OR if the digest reaches 200K. That had previously been set to 30K (install default) so digests should now come once a day typically. The [CCTECH] header is still in place for those subscribed to that list, and it will show up for posts to that list (because those posts automatically show up on cctalk). Regards, Jay West From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri May 17 13:22:51 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES) In-Reply-To: <00aa01c1fdce$d887e700$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 May 2002, Jay West wrote: > > Regards, > > Jay West Did anyone actually say "Thanks" yet? This is the smoothest list transition I've ever been through. Thanks! Doc From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Fri May 17 13:35:30 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES) Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146797A@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Doc > > On Fri, 17 May 2002, Jay West wrote: > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Jay West > > Did anyone actually say "Thanks" yet? This is the smoothest list > transition I've ever been through. > > Thanks! > > Doc > I've said it before, and I'll say it again, a standing ovation for Jay... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From salo at Xtrmntr.org Fri May 17 13:29:28 2002 From: salo at Xtrmntr.org (Lubomir Sedlacik) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES) In-Reply-To: <00aa01c1fdce$d887e700$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <00aa01c1fdce$d887e700$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <20020517182928.GC29028@Xtrmntr.org> On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 01:15:37PM -0500, Jay West wrote: > The [CCTALK] header in subject lines is now gone. If you want to > automatically filter classiccmp traffic to an alternate mailbox, just > use the sender address instead of searching the subject. that's what List-Id: is for.. List-Id: Classic Computer Discussion - Unmoderated > The [CCTECH] header is still in place for those subscribed to that > list, and it will show up for posts to that list (because those posts > automatically show up on cctalk). doesn't it have different List-Id:? regards, -- -- Lubomir Sedlacik ASCII Ribbon campaign against /"\ -- -- e-mail in gratuitous HTML and \ / -- -- Microsoft proprietary formats X -- -- PGPkey: http://Xtrmntr.org/salo.pgp / \ -- -- Key Fingerprint: DBEC 8BEC 9A90 ECEC 0FEF 716E 59CE B70B 7E3B 70E2 -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020517/a115eb7c/attachment.bin From rmoyers at nop.org Fri May 17 13:39:58 2002 From: rmoyers at nop.org (Raymond Moyers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] LIST ADMIN RE: Rants (RAYMOND MOYERS) In-Reply-To: <001701c1fdcc$4f6d3f80$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <000701c1fda4$4acb35e0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> <001701c1fdcc$4f6d3f80$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <200205171839.g4HIdws23934@Fubar.nop.org> On Friday 17 May 2002 12:57, you wrote: > Ray, I have admonished you in private to stop the political/philosophical > discussion here. I am now proceeding to do it in public as you obviously > haven't listened. Your last post was clearly off-topic, and illustrates a > growing (some would argue "well established") trend. This is your last > warning to refrain from political/philosophical rhetoric. If it happens > again, you will receive no further warnings (other than any list traffic to > you ceasing rather suddenly). lookin over the total posts ive made... your assertion is false thats ok however i dont need to be here Cheers Raymond From rdd at rddavis.org Fri May 17 13:59:22 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Rants In-Reply-To: <3CE5059B.2050706@dragonsweb.org> References: <5.0.0.25.0.20020517061139.02742d78@pc> <3CE5059B.2050706@dragonsweb.org> Message-ID: <20020517185921.GA4071@rhiannon.rddavis.org> John Foust wrote: >At 01:14 AM 5/17/2002 -0400, Glen Goodwin whined: > >>a new server and software. However, I would like to protect myself from >>Mr. Moyers' offensive rants. Since this is a private list, is there any >>mechanism for banishment of gross repeat offenders? G.G., did you ever consider that your rants may be considered quite annoying by some, just as you find the rants of others to be "offensive"? If you wish to avoid being offended, simply unsubscribe, or switch to the new "protected" list, and you will no longer be at risk of being offended. Rather easy, what? Of course, you could always set up your own server and host the SPCNPCC (socialized politically correct namby pamby classic computerist) mailing list. On PCNPCC, you can then get together with others to whine about topics like: how unfair it is for some people to have more classic computers than others, and people who have systems that are more classic than systems owned by others, and discuss the legislation that some of the politically correct would probably want to remedy such problems, such as state ownership of classic computers. >By putting each Classic Computer Collector in their own >separate mailing list, we'll reduce the number of offended, >minus those who can successfully argue with themselves >either by virtue of nature, nuture or medication. Good idea! There's just one slight problem: those who can't successfully argue with themselves may eventually begin to feel left out. I suggest that someone write an A.I. program that can parse their text and argue with them. ;-) R.D.D. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From pcw at mesanet.com Fri May 17 13:58:47 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 17 May 2002, Doc wrote: > On Fri, 17 May 2002, Jay West wrote: > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Jay West > > Did anyone actually say "Thanks" yet? This is the smoothest list > transition I've ever been through. > > Thanks! > > Doc > > Hear Hear! Thanks Jay, for running and upgrading the list! Peter Wallace From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri May 17 14:05:49 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: First SGI Workstations? In-Reply-To: <200205171251.g4HCpFl22938@Fubar.nop.org>; from rmoyers@nop.org on Fri, May 17, 2002 at 14:51:06 CEST References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784608@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> <20020517132728.B86415@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <200205171251.g4HCpFl22938@Fubar.nop.org> Message-ID: <20020517210549.C86854@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.05.17 14:51 Raymond Moyers wrote: > Try this one > > http://www.irisindigo.com/periodic.php3 Ahh. Nice. Also have a look at http://reputable.com/~skywriter/snap.jpg This is part of the "Big Old Nasty SGI" Page: http://reputable.com/~skywriter/ -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From red at bears.org Fri May 17 14:41:31 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: First SGI Workstations? unix on 68k / mips In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 17 May 2002, Sridhar the POWERful wrote: > Nope. 68K then (briefly, thank God) i386, then SPARC. I read somewhere, once, that between m68k and SPARC, Sun was on a bad part of the price-performance curve and desperate to keep a couple of big customers happy until SPARC was ready. The article suggested that the 386i was mostly a touchy-feely for the NYSE wonks. Anybody have anything to add to this story? ok r. From pat at purdueriots.com Fri May 17 14:43:21 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:28 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100/90 Message-ID: I just got one of these. It powers up, the lights on the back flicker nicely, and it appears to be outputting crap to the MMJ serial port labeled '3', but for the life of me I can't figure out what speed it's at. I've tried minicom at 300,1200,2400,4800.9600.19200,38400, and 57600 with no success. I've even tried 7-N-1 and 7-E-1 (7bits no/even parity and 1 stopbit) along with 8-n-1, no luck. Anyone have more of a clue than I do? -- Pat From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Fri May 17 14:56:22 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:28 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100/90 Message-ID: >I just got one of these. It powers up, the lights on the back flicker >nicely, and it appears to be outputting crap to the MMJ serial port >labeled '3', but for the life of me I can't figure out what speed it's at. >I've tried minicom at 300,1200,2400,4800.9600.19200,38400, and 57600 with >no success. I've even tried 7-N-1 and 7-E-1 (7bits no/even parity and 1 >stopbit) along with 8-n-1, no luck. There should be a little slide switch at the back. When it is up it will use that port (3 - with the printer icon) at whatever speed: usually 9600 8-N. I've never tried via a minicom - do you have a dumb terminal, preferably a VT200/300/400 and a known good set of connectors and cables? Antonio From pat at purdueriots.com Fri May 17 14:51:20 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:28 2005 Subject: E&S PS-390 Message-ID: I saw a pair of Evans & Sutherland PS-390's (small end table sized) down at Purdue Salvage today. I was wondering if they had any value... I saw a few cables for them and keyboard and a digitizing tablet, but no monitors. Drop me a line if anyone wants one. I should be able to get them for somewhere between $50 and $100 for it all (both of them + accessories). Also there were several binders full of stuff. At a minimum, I'm gonna get the manuals for them... -- Pat From allain at panix.com Fri May 17 14:59:53 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: First SGI Workstations? unix on 68k / mips References: Message-ID: <001301c1fddd$69b11fe0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Anybody have anything to add to this story? Wull gee shucks. I saw their first Workstation at Siggraph'84. A little research fleshes this out some. http://www.sgi.com/features/2002/jan/20th/timeline.html "1984: Shipped first IRIS workstations" (period) http://sgistuff.g-lenerz.de/machines/iris1000.html IRIS 1400 Workstation _detailed_, 1984 "IRIS 1400 includes a stand-alone, 68010-based UNIX environment (System V with 4.2 BSD enhancements... The IRIS 1400 comes standard with 1.5 MB of CPU memory, 8 bit- planes of 1024x1024 image memory, and a 72 MB Winchester disk and controller. Options include additional CPU and image memory, a floating point accelerator..." John A. From csmith at amdocs.com Fri May 17 15:03:35 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:28 2005 Subject: E&S PS-390 Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784635@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Pat Finnegan [mailto:pat@purdueriots.com] > I saw a pair of Evans & Sutherland PS-390's (small end table > sized) down > at Purdue Salvage today. I was wondering if they had any > value... I saw a > few cables for them and keyboard and a digitizing tablet, but > no monitors. I'd love to have at least one of those. Don't know if I'll have the cash, though :/ Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' -------------- next part -------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this message is proprietary of Amdocs, protected from disclosure, and may be privileged. The information is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s) of the message. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, use, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From csmith at amdocs.com Fri May 17 15:12:20 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:28 2005 Subject: E&S PS-390 Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784639@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Christopher Smith [mailto:csmith@amdocs.com] > I'd love to have at least one of those. Don't know if I'll have > the cash, though :/ That was actually supposed to go to Pat -- sorry guys. Anyway, the jig is up now, I do like E&S. :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' -------------- next part -------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this message is proprietary of Amdocs, protected from disclosure, and may be privileged. The information is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s) of the message. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, use, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ab at lists.gxis.de Fri May 17 15:27:22 2002 From: ab at lists.gxis.de (Alexander Bochmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Subdivide further Jay In-Reply-To: <3CE43BF9.23959.671B6E0@localhost> References: <3CE43BF9.23959.671B6E0@localhost> Message-ID: <20020517202722.GB18314@gxis.de> ...on Thu, May 16, 2002 at 11:08:41PM -0500, Lawrence Walker wrote: > Damn after being away 2 weeks my mailbox was jammed with msg's. Now with Mailman you have the possibility to interrupt your subscription without having to unsubscribe and resubscribe. > I've long thought that CC should be subdivided into micros and minis. > I imagine many scroll down the messages and delete anything related to > DEC PDP, VAX, and any other mini stuff like I do, and I'm sure the mini and > big iron people do the same. Although I rarely have the time to read the classiccmp mailinglist at the moment, the thing I like about it is exactly that it's a bit chatty and even within an uninteresting (to me) thread it's possible that suddenly something that catches my attention pops up. Dividing the thing up further and further would break up the mix up to a point where everyone sees just things within his own (self-)limited scope... Alex. (switching back to lurking mode) From at258 at osfn.org Fri May 17 15:32:10 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:28 2005 Subject: drivel In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784639@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: I am just a little disappointed that the changes made to eliminate some of the less enthralling bits from the list seem to have encouraged more ill feeling and wasted spaced. That aside, we received an interesting donation today, an HP700 with 660 drive, also a7580? plotter and a Decstation 5000. Also in the lot was a "DEC 3000" Anyone familiar with this? Also we were given an Echo I optical storage system. We were told it may have a Sun 1 cpu, Anyone familair with this system? M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From pcw at mesanet.com Fri May 17 15:33:23 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:28 2005 Subject: E&S PS-390 In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784639@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 May 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Christopher Smith [mailto:csmith@amdocs.com] > > > I'd love to have at least one of those. Don't know if I'll have > > the cash, though :/ > > That was actually supposed to go to Pat -- sorry guys. > > Anyway, the jig is up now, I do like E&S. :) > > Chris > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > I once saw the weirdest E&S card. It had an external power connector with instructions that to remove the card, power must be applied to that connector. It had some kind of thermal card slot clamping mechanism, I think the card was conductions cooled through the card slot... Peter Wallace From foo at siconic.com Fri May 17 15:33:58 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Subdivide further Jay In-Reply-To: <004901c1fdcc$c1eff9d0$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 May 2002, Jay West wrote: > > I've long thought that CC should be subdivided into micros and minis. > > I imagine many scroll down the messages and delete anything related to > > DEC PDP, VAX, and any other mini stuff like I do, and I'm sure the mini > and > > big iron people do the same. > At some point that might not be a bad idea, but... I'm not really in favor > of that at this point. There is just too many threads that are applicable to > both. The recent discussion about PROM burners and such being a good > example. Cleaning techniques, repair, etc. I don't think it's a good idea at all. It would only dilute the message base. Even though I don't always follow the mini-computer threads, I am definitely interested in them because I have several myself. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri May 17 15:35:54 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES) In-Reply-To: <00aa01c1fdce$d887e700$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 May 2002, Jay West wrote: > The [CCTECH] header is still in place for those subscribed to that list, and > it will show up for posts to that list (because those posts automatically > show up on cctalk). I never got an answer to this question: If a message from CCTECH which gets cross-posted to CCTALK is responded to by someone on CCTALK, will that reply also go back to CCTECH? How is this sort of thing handled? From vance at ikickass.org Fri May 17 15:37:26 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Rants, List Bifurcation In-Reply-To: <200205171113.g4HBDF922701@Fubar.nop.org> Message-ID: Go to hell. Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 17 May 2002, Raymond Moyers wrote: > Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 06:13:15 -0500 > From: Raymond Moyers > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: [CCTALK] Rants, List Bifurcation > > On Friday 17 May 2002 00:14, you wrote: > > > From: Raymond Moyers > > > > > > I understand the thinking behind bifurcation of the list, > > > but this wont quell the foamy mouth shout-down/shoot-down > > > crowd that lay claim to that manufactured "civil" right > > > to protection against speech that they find offensive. > > > > Jay -- > > > > I find Mr. Moyers' speech to be offensive in the context of this list. > > "...The Left's First Amendment would read 'Congress shall make > no law ... abridging the freedom of speech, etc. ... providing > such speech or activities do not offend. If any offense is > taken, citizen whiners, being necessary to the security of a > politically correct state, shall from time to time suppress the > offender's free speech rights by any means necessary, including, > but not limited to, required sensitivity training, re-education, > and loss of income'." --Edwin Feulner > > "If winning is the only value, why debate when you can suppress?" > --John Leo > > "'No tolerance' means more than just a warning, because that would > mean tolerance." --Dry Creek Elementary School Principal Darci Mickle, > of Centennial, Colorado, discussing seven fourth-graders sent home from > school, then sentenced to a week's lunchtime detention, for violating > "zero tolerance" policies; the boys, playing a game of soldiers and aliens, > pointed their fingers like firearms during the mock battles. > > A lot has been said about the "good Germans, who said nothing" > what is missing from most of it is why they were silent and how > they where silenced, > > "Being a lover of freedom, when the [Nazi] revolution came, > I looked to the universities to defend it, knowing that they had > always boasted of their devotion to the cause of truth; > but no, the universities were immediately silenced. > > Then I looked to the great editors of the newspapers, > whose flaming editorials in days gone had proclaimed their > love of freedom; but they, like the universities, were silenced in a > few short weeks.... > > Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler's > campaign for suppressing the truth. > > I never had any special interest in the Church before, but > now I feel a great affection and admiration for it because > the Church alone has had the courage and persistence > to stand for intellectual and moral freedom. > > I am forced to confess that what I once despised I now praise > unreservedly." --Albert Einstein > > Its a tactic of the left to purge any casual mention of their bloodstained > past from all forums the same way the NAZIs silenced their opposition > in the last days of the Wiemar republic. > > All lists have their brushfires and posts that look like bait, but the > fires consume their fuel and extingush themselves, and even the > most intrangent will soon enough notice he is off in the ditch > and steer himself back between the stripes. > > Those of us that are accustomed to American freedom, and what > that means grant latitude to the voice and actions of others > automatically, knowing that the license we grant to others > directly supports our own. > > In my opinion, i would have routed those clamoring for "control" > to /dev/null , once you act on the desires of the control freaks > you empower them with the ability of the always used tactic > of making such a clamor that you in effect hand over all power > to them to shut them up. a tactic that works all too often. > > Raymond > > _______________________________________________ > cctalk mailing list > cctalk@classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > -- "How do you fight such a savage?" "With heart, faith, and steel. There can be only one." -MacLeod and Ramirez, "Highlander" From foo at siconic.com Fri May 17 15:40:41 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: DEC 3000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 17 May 2002, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > That aside, we received an interesting donation today, an HP700 with 660 > drive, also a7580? plotter and a Decstation 5000. Also in the lot was a > "DEC 3000" Anyone familiar with this? Also we were given an Echo I > optical storage system. We were told it may have a Sun 1 cpu, Anyone > familair with this system? We've got a DEC 3000 at the ACCRC (Alameda County Computer Resource Center). So far it's been saved from the recycle bin but I'm not quite sure what to do with it yet. More accurately, it's been sitting in another part of the warehouse and hence is out of mind. It'll probably end up going into the VCF Archives. Sorry, don't know anything about it really. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From csmith at amdocs.com Fri May 17 15:37:44 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: drivel Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E0178463D@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Merle K. Peirce [mailto:at258@osfn.org] > "DEC 3000" Anyone familiar with this? Also we were given an Echo I Wasn't the DEC 3000 an early Turbochannel Alpha system? Or am I all mixed up? Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' -------------- next part -------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this message is proprietary of Amdocs, protected from disclosure, and may be privileged. The information is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s) of the message. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, use, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From zaft at azstarnet.com Fri May 17 15:49:15 2002 From: zaft at azstarnet.com (Gordon Zaft) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: DEC 3000 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020517134812.026980e0@mail.azstarnet.com> At 01:40 PM 5/17/2002 -0700, you wrote: >On Fri, 17 May 2002, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > > That aside, we received an interesting donation today, an HP700 with 660 > > drive, also a7580? plotter and a Decstation 5000. Also in the lot was a > > "DEC 3000" Anyone familiar with this? Also we were given an Echo I > > optical storage system. We were told it may have a Sun 1 cpu, Anyone > > familair with this system? > >We've got a DEC 3000 at the ACCRC (Alameda County Computer Resource >Center). So far it's been saved from the recycle bin but I'm not quite >sure what to do with it yet. More accurately, it's been sitting in >another part of the warehouse and hence is out of mind. It'll probably >end up going into the VCF Archives. It's an Alpha-based system, runs VMS, Tru64 and NetBSD at least. There's some info at: http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/alpha/models.html GZ From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri May 17 15:58:22 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Subdivide further Jay In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "May 17, 2 01:33:58 pm" Message-ID: <200205172058.NAA27304@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I don't think it's a good idea at all. It would only dilute the message > base. Even though I don't always follow the mini-computer threads, I am > definitely interested in them because I have several myself. Also, I think branching the lists out just sets a precedent to further subdivide the lists, which could be a problem down the road. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Life isn't fair. But having the root password helps. ----------------------- From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri May 17 15:51:00 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES) References: Message-ID: <003d01c1fde4$8e0297f0$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Sellam wrote.... > I never got an answer to this question: I'm sorry Sellam (and to others who have sent me email recently)... I'm barraged by a huge volume of email at the moment, primarily due to the list change and some problems that people seem to be having. As a result, I have barely been able to reply to anything other than the most critical messages. My apologies people - if anyone sent me an email that I haven't responded to recently, please wait a few days, and then send it again. That would greatly help my sanity right now! > If a message from CCTECH which gets cross-posted to CCTALK is responded to > by someone on CCTALK, will that reply also go back to CCTECH? > > How is this sort of thing handled? Here's how it is currently handled. In the scenario that Sellam puts forth, no - the reply from someone on cctalk to a post that originated on cctech will NOT go back to cctech. You can't have it both ways people - either the people on cctech see posts on cctalk or they don't. The people who have joined cctech did so specifically because they DIDN'T want to see posts on cctalk. As a result, I'm sure not going to force them to see posts on cctalk. (more below) > >From what I can tell, a thread may start in CCTALK based on a message from > CCTECH, and only those in CCTALK will have the benefit of it. > > If that's the case, I don't think that will work. Yes, it will work, but the responsibility is the choice of the list member, not mine. If one wants to see posts on both, they should join both lists. However, keep in mind that most people won't want to join both, they will only want one or the other. In the end, it's the users choice. Jay West From pcw at mesanet.com Fri May 17 15:55:21 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: drivel In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E0178463D@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 May 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Merle K. Peirce [mailto:at258@osfn.org] > > > "DEC 3000" Anyone familiar with this? Also we were given an Echo I > > Wasn't the DEC 3000 an early Turbochannel Alpha system? Or am I all > mixed up? > > Chris > > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > Yes its a TC Alpha from low end to high end something like: 3000/300L/300LX/300/300X 100,125,150,175 MHz 64 bit parity Memory bus - small 3000/400 133 MHz 128 bit ECC memory bus 3000/500/500X 150/200 MHz 3000/600 175 MHz 3000/700 225 MHz 3000/800 200 MHz 3000/900 275 MHz Peter Wallace From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Fri May 17 16:04:56 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: DEC 3000 Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146797E@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Gordon Zaft > > At 01:40 PM 5/17/2002 -0700, you wrote: > >On Fri, 17 May 2002, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > > > > That aside, we received an interesting donation today, an HP700 with > 660 > > > drive, also a7580? plotter and a Decstation 5000. Also in the lot was > a > > > "DEC 3000" Anyone familiar with this? Also we were given an Echo I > > > optical storage system. We were told it may have a Sun 1 cpu, Anyone > > > familair with this system? > > > >We've got a DEC 3000 at the ACCRC (Alameda County Computer Resource > >Center). So far it's been saved from the recycle bin but I'm not quite > >sure what to do with it yet. More accurately, it's been sitting in > >another part of the warehouse and hence is out of mind. It'll probably > >end up going into the VCF Archives. > > It's an Alpha-based system, runs VMS, Tru64 and NetBSD at > least. There's some info at: > > http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/alpha/models.html > On the back should be a sticker with more info, to tell you if its a 300, 400, 500, or whatever model... My 3000/400 is running pretty nice, I just need to find more memory for it... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From csmith at amdocs.com Fri May 17 15:56:09 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES) Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E0178463F@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Jay West [mailto:jwest@classiccmp.org] > > If that's the case, I don't think that will work. > Yes, it will work, but the responsibility is the choice of > the list member, > not mine. If one wants to see posts on both, they should join > both lists. > However, keep in mind that most people won't want to join > both, they will > only want one or the other. In the end, it's the users choice. Of course it would be possible for anyone who wants to be seen on cctech to join that list too, specifying that the mail from cctech shouldn't be delivered to your account, since you'll already get it from cctalk, and then just send any posts which are squarely on topic there. They'd be bounced to cctalk, and everyone will see them. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' -------------- next part -------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this message is proprietary of Amdocs, protected from disclosure, and may be privileged. The information is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s) of the message. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, use, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dankolb at ox.compsoc.net Fri May 17 16:07:30 2002 From: dankolb at ox.compsoc.net (Dan Kolb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: DEC 3000 In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020517134812.026980e0@mail.azstarnet.com> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020517134812.026980e0@mail.azstarnet.com> Message-ID: <200205172207.30836.dankolb@ox.compsoc.net> On Friday 17 May 2002 21:49 pm, Gordon Zaft wrote: > It's an Alpha-based system, runs VMS, Tru64 and NetBSD at > least. There's also a Linux port project for it - http://www.phys.ufl.edu/~prescott/linux/alpha/dec3000-port.html I've got a 3000 300L (64Mb RAM and 400ish Mb hard drive), and a 3000 400 (96Mb RAM, 1Gb hard drive, CD drive). At the moment (thanks to David W. for giving me the correct mount options), the 400 has a seemingly-working Digital Unix install, which I'll probably keep to play with. The 300 also has a Digital Unix install, but it's pretty much unrescuable, needing a reinstall. (A lot of essential directories are apparently on a second drive that I don't have). I was going to get a VMS/Alpha CD, and turn it into a VMS system - would 400Mb hard drive be enough to have a working VMS + DECWindows + Multinet (and various useful internet programs, like IRC ;-)? Also, would there be any potential problems with simply pulling the CD drive out of my 3000/400, sticking it into the 3000/300L, and booting VMS from the CD? Dan -- Paradise is exactly like where you are right now ... only much, much better. -- Laurie Anderson From csmith at amdocs.com Fri May 17 16:14:34 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: DEC 3000 Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784640@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Kolb [mailto:dankolb@ox.compsoc.net] > turn it into a VMS system - would 400Mb hard drive be enough > to have a > working VMS + DECWindows + Multinet (and various useful internet > programs, like IRC ;-)? Also, would there be any potential Plenty of room. I have a disk no larger than 300M with VMS 7.2 for VAX, DECWindows, DECNet, UCX (by any other name), etc, and space left. Of course, I use a separate, external 600MB disk for user home directories and the like. I wouldn't except the Alpha version is much larger. Just be careful not to overload it with stuff you won't use. > problems with > simply pulling the CD drive out of my 3000/400, sticking it into the > 3000/300L, and booting VMS from the CD? Are they both single-ended SCSI? My guess is no problems at all. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' -------------- next part -------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this message is proprietary of Amdocs, protected from disclosure, and may be privileged. The information is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s) of the message. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, use, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vance at ikickass.org Fri May 17 16:20:51 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: drivel In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E0178463D@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 May 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > "DEC 3000" Anyone familiar with this? Also we were given an Echo I > > Wasn't the DEC 3000 an early Turbochannel Alpha system? Or am I all > mixed up? You are absolutely right. Peace... Sridhar -- "How do you fight such a savage?" "With heart, faith, and steel. There can be only one." -MacLeod and Ramirez, "Highlander" From csmith at amdocs.com Fri May 17 16:24:34 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: drivel Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784642@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Sridhar the POWERful [mailto:vance@ikickass.org] > > Wasn't the DEC 3000 an early Turbochannel Alpha system? Or am I all > > mixed up? > You are absolutely right. Just checking. I always thought that Merle would be busy hauling more sensational things... not that I dislike Turbochannel Alpha systems ;) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' -------------- next part -------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this message is proprietary of Amdocs, protected from disclosure, and may be privileged. The information is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s) of the message. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, use, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dankolb at ox.compsoc.net Fri May 17 16:34:56 2002 From: dankolb at ox.compsoc.net (Dan Kolb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: DEC 3000 In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784640@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784640@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: <200205172234.56139.dankolb@ox.compsoc.net> On Friday 17 May 2002 22:14 pm, Christopher Smith wrote: > Plenty of room. I have a disk no larger than 300M with VMS 7.2 > for VAX, DECWindows, DECNet, UCX (by any other name), etc, and > space left. Of course, I use a separate, external 600MB disk for > user home directories and the like. That's fine then. I'm not really expecting to have much, if any, of my own data :-) > I wouldn't except the Alpha version is much larger. Just be careful > not to overload it with stuff you won't use. I'll try not to. :-) > > problems with > > simply pulling the CD drive out of my 3000/400, sticking it into the > > 3000/300L, and booting VMS from the CD? > > Are they both single-ended SCSI? My guess is no problems at all. Probably. If I remember by hardware reference correctly, they've both got identical SCSI controllers - the 400 has two of them, the 300 only one. Dan -- If you want your spouse to listen and pay strict attention to every word you say, talk in your sleep. From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri May 17 15:53:09 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] List problems? In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146797B@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146797B@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <20020517205309.GG7035@mrbill.net> On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 02:38:06PM -0400, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Nah, just seems that everybody took a long lunch, according to Dooug > Q... It was just kind of eery the way the messages just stopped. I had > (wrongly!) thought that the list server bombed. But it didn't... :-) I think Jay is still working on getting gatewaying between the two lists working properly. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From lincoln.fessenden at verizon.net Fri May 17 15:51:29 2002 From: lincoln.fessenden at verizon.net (linc fessenden) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: drivel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 17 May 2002, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > That aside, we received an interesting donation today, an HP700 with 660 > drive, also a7580? plotter and a Decstation 5000. Also in the lot was a > "DEC 3000" Anyone familiar with this? Also we were given an Echo I > optical storage system. We were told it may have a Sun 1 cpu, Anyone > familair with this system? Is it a Dec 3000/300? If so it's an alpha. Nice little computer. I really like mine except it desperately needs a motherboard replacement. -- -Linc Fessenden In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri May 17 17:19:42 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: Mac Classic - almost dead In-Reply-To: <3CE43BFA.6935.671B775@localhost> Message-ID: <20020517221942.79740.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Lawrence Walker wrote: > C'mon Ethan. Dick sees bargains that most of us only dream about. Dream? I passed on a working Quadra 800 for $5 last week. I saw someone cart one away at Dayton today for the same price. I _bought_ a 7200 for $10 and wished I'd bought both... that's why I'm looking for VSIMMs... I have one; I need one or three more. > > I have all the SE/30s I'll ever use (two) and plenty of Mac IIci > > and other Motorola-based Macs. OTOH, if you start to see PPC Macs, > > I'm interested for $10-$25. That was not a wish to only pay $10 to $25... I see them every week for that price. I just don't always see newer ones. There was a pallet marked "Choice $20" at Dayton today, including a SPARC10, some misc Quadras and a few 9500/120s. The two I could look at were missing memory, so I passed on them, but these prices are not "rare". -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri May 17 17:42:08 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Good Trip/Score Dec Rainbow, preformatted media In-Reply-To: <200205170240.g4H2eeR21505@Fubar.nop.org> Message-ID: <20020517224208.75364.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Raymond Moyers wrote: > On Thursday 16 May 2002 21:10, you wrote: > > > Thanks to Alex W. I picked up a Dec Rainbow+ w/color card and a DEC > > VR240 and a DEC printer > > Isnt that one of those machines that need preformatted media ? No. The Pro series and DECmate series cannot make their own 5.25" disks from blanks. > Im not very knowlegable about VAX variants but i read about > a certain small vax 2000? prized for its ability to prepare > hard disks (flaw map/disk label) for the larger vaxen that > lacked the ability to do it themselves. Close - the MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 has an option in _ROM_ to format MFM drives. To do the same task on a Q-bus MicroVAX with an RQDX3 (compatible low-level formatting) requires a boot tape that was not available to mere mortals. People often have kept a MicroVAX 2000 around for MFM drive formatting for Qbus boxes. Lucky people have also kept around the Field Service Diagnostic tape for the same purpose. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri May 17 17:45:24 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] SCSI FDD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020517224524.83796.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jeff Hellige wrote: > >Anybody know ehere to get SCSI floppy drives? > >I understand that they work well with later DEC > >like the vS3100's. (1.44 3.5" naturally). > > There was at least one SCSI floppy made for NeXT machines > since the original cube didn't support an internal floppy. It would > likely be 2.88 though. It is. I also happen to have a SCSI floppy drive that I think came out of some AT&T box (3B2, perhaps?) It's a 34-pin floppy mech with a daughter card that speaks SCSI. It is also 2.88MB (well... a 4MB -media disk that happens to format under DOS to approximately 2.9MB, he says, remembering a flame war in the past about floppy capacity designators). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From davebarnes at adelphia.net Fri May 17 19:02:02 2002 From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: E&S PS-390 References: Message-ID: <3CE599FA.7F5DB1D3@adelphia.net> Hi Pat... I would be interested in one... let me know the details... Thanks David Barnes Pat Finnegan wrote: > I saw a pair of Evans & Sutherland PS-390's (small end table sized) down > at Purdue Salvage today. I was wondering if they had any value... I saw a > few cables for them and keyboard and a digitizing tablet, but no monitors. > > Drop me a line if anyone wants one. I should be able to get them for > somewhere between $50 and $100 for it all (both of them + accessories). > Also there were several binders full of stuff. At a minimum, I'm gonna > get the manuals for them... > > -- Pat From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri May 17 18:05:46 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Good Trip/Score Dec Rainbow, preformatted media In-Reply-To: <20020517224208.75364.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 May 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > People often have kept a MicroVAX 2000 around for MFM drive formatting > for Qbus boxes. Lucky people have also kept around the Field Service > Diagnostic tape for the same purpose. And some not-terribly-skilled-but-determined individuals have archived the Diags tape in "maketape" format. Doc From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 17 17:12:40 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] EPROM Life... Was: scanners & circuit boards... In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at May 16, 2 05:49:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 833 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020517/2d530f98/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 17 17:16:57 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] RE: [CCTECH] TRS-80 Model 1 List bifurcation In-Reply-To: <200205170153.g4H1rgU21364@Fubar.nop.org> from "Raymond Moyers" at May 16, 2 08:53:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 597 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020517/715c3f6e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 17 18:15:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: E&S PS-390 In-Reply-To: from "Pat Finnegan" at May 17, 2 02:51:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1216 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020518/b9443015/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 17 17:20:35 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Good Trip/Score Dec Rainbow, preformatted media In-Reply-To: <200205170240.g4H2eeR21505@Fubar.nop.org> from "Raymond Moyers" at May 16, 2 09:40:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1032 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020517/7724a051/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 17 18:02:23 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Commodore 1541 Drive In-Reply-To: <200205170831.BAA27862@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at May 17, 2 01:31:45 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1066 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020518/816b6f68/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 17 18:20:44 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES) In-Reply-To: <003d01c1fde4$8e0297f0$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP> from "Jay West" at May 17, 2 03:51:00 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1784 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020518/33491897/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 17 17:36:58 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Subdivide further Jay In-Reply-To: <3CE43BF9.23959.671B6E0@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at May 16, 2 11:08:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1160 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020517/58c9fd0e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 17 18:23:13 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Re: List bifurcation In-Reply-To: <000501c1fd4b$d4ba05a0$72ecffcc@Shadow> from "Douglas H. Quebbeman" at May 16, 2 10:37:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 239 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020518/851bc82d/attachment.ksh From dougq at iglou.com Fri May 17 19:01:10 2002 From: dougq at iglou.com (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [OT] Seeking Mac Powerbook Floppy Drive Message-ID: <000501c1fdff$22232160$59ecffcc@Shadow> Hi, Well, a diskette jammed in the PB 5300ce's drive last week, and in addition to a spring or something broken or missing on the eject mechanism, I seem to have knocked the upper head out of alignment, so it's kaput (and the topic is admittedly off-topic as the 5300 is a 1996 product). Assuming no one has one, I'd really appreciate it if those of you who come by such things on a fairly regular basis would keep an eye out for one. They may be unique to the 5300, or may be used in one of the contemporaneous models. I'm sure Shreve Systems likely has them, but their prices vary widely, perhaps based on supply/demand, perhaps not. tia, -doug q From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri May 17 19:13:03 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [OT] Seeking Mac Powerbook Floppy Drive In-Reply-To: <000501c1fdff$22232160$59ecffcc@Shadow> References: <000501c1fdff$22232160$59ecffcc@Shadow> Message-ID: >Assuming no one has one, I'd really appreciate it if those >of you who come by such things on a fairly regular basis >would keep an eye out for one. They may be unique to the >5300, or may be used in one of the contemporaneous models. The expansion bay drive modules should be the same between the 190, 5300, and 3400. In fact the VST ZIP drive I use with my 5300c is actually marked 'ZIP3400' for the model. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From zaft at azstarnet.com Fri May 17 19:19:55 2002 From: zaft at azstarnet.com (Gordon Zaft) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES) In-Reply-To: References: <003d01c1fde4$8e0297f0$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020517171758.02682b70@mail.azstarnet.com> At 12:20 AM 5/18/2002 +0100, Tony wrote: >Somebody reads CCTECH and is subscribed to CCTALK also (but they don't >get mail from that list) If you are on cctech presumably you don't want to subscribe to cctalk. The only reason to subscribe to them both is if you want to be able to post to cctech. >They ask a question on CCTECH and it is copied to CCTALK > >Somebody (lets say me) reads it on CCTALK (I don't mind getting all the >'junk' as well), and posts a reply (to CCTALK) > >Which the original poster never sees. That's right, that's inherent in the choice to be on cctech. >Similarly, if a subscriber to CCTECH (only) posts a reply, then the >CCTALK crowd never see it. No, it will be sent to cctalk also. GZ From red at bears.org Fri May 17 19:22:48 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 18 May 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > Somebody reads CCTECH and is subscribed to CCTALK also (but they don't > get mail from that list) [...] > Problem is, what a particular person sees depeneds also on what lists > others have subscribed to. The way this is handled on another list I am on, which split in an essentially identical way for essentially identical reasons, works opposite to the way CCTALK/CCTECH do now. Its "tech" list is managed this way: * All articles are sent to the unmoderated "general" list. * A moderator (or moderators) "promotes" on-topic messages received by the general list to be delivered to the essentially read-only "tech" list. * All replies go to the general list; on-topic replies are promoted, etc. It works well for them, with minimal confusion. Was this option considered and rejected already? Does it make sense for CCTALK? ok r. From mbg at TheWorld.com Fri May 17 19:20:22 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: drivel Message-ID: <200205180020.UAA2817794@shell.TheWorld.com> Which DEC 3000? There were several... (the bird series -- pelican, flamingo, etc). I've used the 3000/300 (same form factor as the DECstation 5000/25), the 3000/400 (a large desktop brick), and the 3000/700 (a tower case). Yes, they are all Turbo-Channel based machines. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 17 19:33:46 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020517171758.02682b70@mail.azstarnet.com> from "Gordon Zaft" at May 17, 2 05:19:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 657 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020518/a314de1e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 17 19:35:34 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES) In-Reply-To: from "r. 'bear' stricklin" at May 17, 2 08:22:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1321 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020518/55968966/attachment.ksh From zaft at azstarnet.com Fri May 17 19:57:05 2002 From: zaft at azstarnet.com (Gordon Zaft) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES) In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020517171758.02682b70@mail.azstarnet.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020517175516.01ec5bb8@mail.azstarnet.com> At 01:33 AM 5/18/2002 +0100, you wrote: > > > > At 12:20 AM 5/18/2002 +0100, Tony wrote: > > > > >Somebody reads CCTECH and is subscribed to CCTALK also (but they don't > > >get mail from that list) > > > > If you are on cctech presumably you don't want to subscribe to > > cctalk. The only reason to subscribe to them both is if you want to be > > able to post to cctech. > >I was under the impression (from what was said here yesterday) that if >you subscribed to CCTECH only, then you got a bounce message from CCTALK >for each post you made (because CCTECH posts are forwarded to CCTALK, but >as you don't subscribe to that list you're assumed to be an 'outsider'). >Has this been fixed? I don't know. My point, which I realized was unclear, was that if you only want to see cctech stuff, you subscribe to cctech, otherwise you subscribe to cctalk. The only reason to subscribe to cctech if you are subscribed to cctalk is if you want to post on-topic stuff to cctech so that cctech-ers will see it. I am not subscribed to cctech so I couldn't say what happens. GZ From rdd at rddavis.org Fri May 17 22:51:58 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:29 2005 Subject: Auction BDI - Good Classiccmp Source? In-Reply-To: References: <000501c1fd4b$d4ba05a0$72ecffcc@Shadow> Message-ID: <20020518035158.GA4484@rhiannon.rddavis.org> For anyone on the list in the San Jose, CA, area, the following web site, and it's local auctions, may be of interest: www.berman.com They're recyclers and resellers of computer equipment, electronics test equipment, electronic components, test equipment, etc. I just happened to find their web site by mistake while looking for something else. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From mythtech at mac.com Fri May 17 22:51:24 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: [OT] Seeking Mac Powerbook Floppy Drive Message-ID: >Well, a diskette jammed in the PB 5300ce's drive last week, >and in addition to a spring or something broken or missing >on the eject mechanism, I seem to have knocked the upper >head out of alignment, so it's kaput (and the topic is >admittedly off-topic as the 5300 is a 1996 product). > >Assuming no one has one, I'd really appreciate it if those >of you who come by such things on a fairly regular basis >would keep an eye out for one. They may be unique to the >5300, or may be used in one of the contemporaneous models. > >I'm sure Shreve Systems likely has them, but their prices >vary widely, perhaps based on supply/demand, perhaps not. Check the LEM Swap list. you can subscribe at www.lowendmac.com. If you don't want to deal with subscribing just to look for one item, let me know, and I will be happy to act as proxy for you. -chris From foo at siconic.com Fri May 17 23:36:26 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES) In-Reply-To: <003d01c1fde4$8e0297f0$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 May 2002, Jay West wrote: > Here's how it is currently handled. In the scenario that Sellam puts forth, > no - the reply from someone on cctalk to a post that originated on cctech > will NOT go back to cctech. You can't have it both ways people - either the > people on cctech see posts on cctalk or they don't. The people who have > joined cctech did so specifically because they DIDN'T want to see posts on > cctalk. As a result, I'm sure not going to force them to see posts on > cctalk. (more below) The problem is that many relevant (and on-topic) replies will be missed by those on CCTECH, thereby penalizing them for not wanting to see off-topic crap. I'd always envisioned that everyone would be subscribed to CCTECH, and then anyone who wanted to start an off-topic thread or continue a thread that has gone off-topic could move over to CCTALK to take it up there. THOSE folks could subscribe to both lists so that they could have a place to blab all they wanted. That's what I thought this whole upgrade was about. > Yes, it will work, but the responsibility is the choice of the list member, > not mine. If one wants to see posts on both, they should join both lists. > However, keep in mind that most people won't want to join both, they will > only want one or the other. In the end, it's the users choice. What's the point of CCTECH then? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Fri May 17 23:47:37 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES) References: Message-ID: <3CE5DCE9.ECEF14A5@compsys.to> >"Peter C. Wallace" wrote: > > On Fri, 17 May 2002, Doc wrote: > > Did anyone actually say "Thanks" yet? This is the smoothest list > > transition I've ever been through. > > Thanks! > > Doc > Hear Hear! > Thanks Jay, for running and upgrading the list! > Peter Wallace Jerome Fine replies: I thank you also! From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat May 18 00:23:35 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: Testing for Open Relays? Message-ID: Anyone have any favorite sites or tools to test an SMTP server for open relays? I finally got around to updating the SMTP configuration on my VMS server to reflect the upgrade from TCPIP 5.0 to 5.1 and would like to test it. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From edick at idcomm.com Sat May 18 08:28:17 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: [OT] Seeking Mac Powerbook Floppy Drive References: Message-ID: <001b01c1fe6f$e08c4a80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Have you inquired on ? There's always someone with something for parts. Often they get more for the parts than they'd have gotten for the whole, though. good luck! Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" To: Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [OT] Seeking Mac Powerbook Floppy Drive > >Well, a diskette jammed in the PB 5300ce's drive last week, > >and in addition to a spring or something broken or missing > >on the eject mechanism, I seem to have knocked the upper > >head out of alignment, so it's kaput (and the topic is > >admittedly off-topic as the 5300 is a 1996 product). > > > >Assuming no one has one, I'd really appreciate it if those > >of you who come by such things on a fairly regular basis > >would keep an eye out for one. They may be unique to the > >5300, or may be used in one of the contemporaneous models. > > > >I'm sure Shreve Systems likely has them, but their prices > >vary widely, perhaps based on supply/demand, perhaps not. > > Check the LEM Swap list. you can subscribe at www.lowendmac.com. > > If you don't want to deal with subscribing just to look for one item, let > me know, and I will be happy to act as proxy for you. > > -chris > > > > From zmerch at 30below.com Sat May 18 09:37:05 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: Testing for Open Relays? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020518103705.00fab600@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Zane H. Healy may have mentioned these words: >Anyone have any favorite sites or tools to test an SMTP server for open >relays? I finally got around to updating the SMTP configuration on my VMS >server to reflect the upgrade from TCPIP 5.0 to 5.1 and would like to test >it. Well, having never run an open-relaying SMTP server, I'm not well versed, but the qmail documentation at http://www.qmail.org/top.html does give instructions on how to initiate an SMTP conversation from the telnet prompt... I knowz it ain't much, but I HTH... Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From foo at siconic.com Sat May 18 10:03:20 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: [OT] Seeking Mac Powerbook Floppy Drive In-Reply-To: <000501c1fdff$22232160$59ecffcc@Shadow> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 May 2002, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > Well, a diskette jammed in the PB 5300ce's drive last week, > and in addition to a spring or something broken or missing > on the eject mechanism, I seem to have knocked the upper > head out of alignment, so it's kaput (and the topic is > admittedly off-topic as the 5300 is a 1996 product). > > Assuming no one has one, I'd really appreciate it if those > of you who come by such things on a fairly regular basis > would keep an eye out for one. They may be unique to the > 5300, or may be used in one of the contemporaneous models. The ACCRC most likely has stuff like this. Contact them at their UsedTech site: http://www.usedtech.org It's a terrible site to navigate, but basically you dig through the screens and find what you're after and then post a message to the forums telling them what you want. (Hint: most of the pictures are completely outdated. The best thing to do is just go straight to the forums and tell them what you want and Alex will go digging for it for you and then get back to you with a (very reasonable) price.) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat May 18 10:05:17 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020517171758.02682b70@mail.azstarnet.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 May 2002, Gordon Zaft wrote: > At 12:20 AM 5/18/2002 +0100, Tony wrote: > > >Somebody reads CCTECH and is subscribed to CCTALK also (but they don't > >get mail from that list) > > If you are on cctech presumably you don't want to subscribe to > cctalk. The only reason to subscribe to them both is if you want to be > able to post to cctech. > > > >They ask a question on CCTECH and it is copied to CCTALK > > > >Somebody (lets say me) reads it on CCTALK (I don't mind getting all the > >'junk' as well), and posts a reply (to CCTALK) > > > >Which the original poster never sees. > > That's right, that's inherent in the choice to be on cctech. > > > >Similarly, if a subscriber to CCTECH (only) posts a reply, then the > >CCTALK crowd never see it. > > No, it will be sent to cctalk also. Gordon's responses are all correct. The problem then is that CCTECH is effectively useless at eliminating off-topic messages for people who prefer that in the sense that an on-topic thread started on CCTALK as a result of a message posted to CCTECH will be missed by the people on CCTECH. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat May 18 10:08:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 17 May 2002, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > On Sat, 18 May 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Somebody reads CCTECH and is subscribed to CCTALK also (but they don't > > get mail from that list) > > [...] > > > Problem is, what a particular person sees depeneds also on what lists > > others have subscribed to. > > The way this is handled on another list I am on, which split in an > essentially identical way for essentially identical reasons, works > opposite to the way CCTALK/CCTECH do now. Its "tech" list is managed this > way: > > * All articles are sent to the unmoderated "general" list. > > * A moderator (or moderators) "promotes" on-topic messages received by the > general list to be delivered to the essentially read-only "tech" list. > > * All replies go to the general list; on-topic replies are promoted, etc. This puts the onus on the moderators to do all the work. But it is one way to implement it. As I proposed previously, I thought it more logical for CCTECH to be the default list, and to post an off-topic thread a person goes over to CCTALK to do that. However, the record of people's ability to police themselves on here is pretty dismal, so maybe we should do it the way bear describes. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat May 18 10:10:39 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020517175516.01ec5bb8@mail.azstarnet.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 May 2002, Gordon Zaft wrote: > I am not subscribed to cctech so I couldn't say what happens. Well, currently, as far as I can tell, nothing is happening on CCTECH because everyone is waiting for the the list split to start working in the way intended. But CCTECH will be pointless until one of the previously described methods is implemented to make sure CCTECH subscribers are seeing all on-topic messages. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dankolb at ox.compsoc.net Sat May 18 10:12:41 2002 From: dankolb at ox.compsoc.net (Dan Kolb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: Testing for Open Relays? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200205181612.42015.dankolb@ox.compsoc.net> On Saturday 18 May 2002 06:23 am, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Anyone have any favorite sites or tools to test an SMTP server for open > relays? I finally got around to updating the SMTP configuration on my > VMS server to reflect the upgrade from TCPIP 5.0 to 5.1 and would like > to test it. I think that some of the RBL sites will test a server for open relaying if requested. This, of course, has the problem that you'd be blacklisted if you have an open relay :-) Pretty much all mail servers will allow relaying from the local machine to any mail address. Some will allow anyone on the local network to relay through the machine, so using another machine on your network isn't necessarily a good test either. Best thing to do would be to get shell access to a machine somewhere on the Internet, and do the following: telnet $VMS-MAIL-SERVER 25 helo foo # This seems to be pretty much ignored by mail servers # nowadays, but is often required mail from: foo@bar.com #where this is your email address rcpt to: baz@bat.net #where bat.net is not the domain that you've got set #up on the VMS machine data #Type some data here . quit You should at some point get an error message saying that relaying is denied (either after you type 'quit', or after 'rcpt to', depending on the mail server). Also, in case you do have relaying enabled, make sure that baz@bat.net is either your own email address, or someone who knows you're trying out mail relaying - random people who don't know you won't be too happy getting test mails :-) (if you're in need of a junk to: address, send it to mailtests@eco.li; it's on one of my domains, so I can let you know if any messages get to it). Alternatively, if you give me the IP address of your VMS machine, I can do a quick test within a few minutes of getting your email. Dan -- The past always looks better than it was. It's only pleasant because it isn't here. -- Finley Peter Dunne (Mr. Dooley) From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat May 18 06:51:01 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100/90 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200205181151.g4IBp2u01376@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 17 May, Pat Finnegan wrote: > I just got one of these. Congrats. You got one of the fastest VAXen ever made. (72MHz NVAX CPU) Any options installed? > It powers up, the lights on the back flicker nicely, ....as it schould... > and it appears to be outputting crap to the MMJ serial port > labeled '3', Hmmm. Port 3 is correct. My MV3100m95 does, as all desktop VAXen I have seen, 9600 8n1. The m90 is the same machine with a slower clock speed. The machine shold output some CPU type and PROM version info and then somthing like this during self test: 73..72..71.. it counts down over several lines and stops at "3". ("2" is searching for boot device, "1" bootstrap loaded, "0" control pased to bootstrap.) Do you have a knowen to be good MMJ cable? Note that MMJ is RS423(?), a differential voltage interface. So you need some shortenings in the plug to connect it to RS232. Does the com port of your PeeCee work? -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat May 18 06:42:49 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100/90 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200205181142.g4IBgnw01369@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 17 May, Antonio Carlini wrote: > There should be a little slide switch at the back. When it is > up it will use that port (3 - with the printer icon) And what will it do when the switch is down? Autoboot? I know that switch from VAXstations to switch the machine from graphics to serial console. But this machine has no graphics. -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From geneb at deltasoft.com Sat May 18 11:05:13 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: Testing for Open Relays? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020518103705.00fab600@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: > Rumor has it that Zane H. Healy may have mentioned these words: > >Anyone have any favorite sites or tools to test an SMTP server for open > >relays? I finally got around to updating the SMTP configuration on my VMS > >server to reflect the upgrade from TCPIP 5.0 to 5.1 and would like to test > >it. Zane, I use ORDB and it's very good. http://www.ordb.org g. From robwill2 at wxs.nl Sat May 18 11:10:39 2002 From: robwill2 at wxs.nl (robwill2@wxs.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: d-link de-200tp+ nic: who knows this card?? Message-ID: <200205181611.g4IGBRe76223@huey.classiccmp.org> hi, for the d-link de-200tp+ network interface card i need info how to set the jumper blocks.. anyone know this card? (it's an old-timer...) rob nl From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat May 18 11:54:20 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: Chip-8 questions Message-ID: <200205181654.JAA28476@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Hey, Cosmac people -- I'm working on a Chip-8 emulator for, natch, the Commodore 64. There is a nice instruction set listing at http://users.aol.com/autismuk/chip8/chip8def.htm but it doesn't well document how the carry in register vf is used. For example, does 7rxx use the carry even though it doesn't set it? What about 8ry4 or 8ry5? These set it for borrows/carries but do they use them in the addition or subtraction, like the 6502 ADC/SBC? Also, what does 'skip' mean? Skip the next instruction? Thanks! -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- High explosives are applicable where truth and logic fail. -- Marcello Corno From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat May 18 11:55:04 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: Testing for Open Relays? In-Reply-To: "Zane H. Healy" "Testing for Open Relays?" (May 17, 22:23) References: Message-ID: <10205181755.ZM15386@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 17, 22:23, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Anyone have any favorite sites or tools to test an SMTP server for open > relays? I finally got around to updating the SMTP configuration on my VMS > server to reflect the upgrade from TCPIP 5.0 to 5.1 and would like to test > it. I like to use the JANET tester but that might only work for JANET sites. The other one I often use is the one at http://www.abuse.net/relay.html which seems to work well (and won't end up blocking your domain if the test fails). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sat May 18 12:00:13 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: E&S PS-390 References: Message-ID: <3CE6889D.878ED46D@gifford.co.uk> Tony Duell wrote: > They are basically very intellegent raster display terminals (there's a > 68K in there + a lot of custom silicon). And they have all sorts of > rediculous features (like the fact that on the offical keyboard there's > an 8 character alphanumberic display for each function key that you can > use to label it). Wow, this sounds like the Apricot Microscreen! The Apricot has a little LCD panel near the function keys, which can be set up in software to act as labels for the keys. I presume the Evans & Sutherland was similar? Did it use LCDs or something older? Is there a photo of it anywhere? -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat May 18 12:19:20 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: Testing for Open Relays? In-Reply-To: <10205181755.ZM15386@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: "Zane H. Healy" "Testing for Open Relays?" (May 17, 22:23) Message-ID: >I like to use the JANET tester but that might only work for JANET sites. > The other one I often use is the one at http://www.abuse.net/relay.html >which seems to work well (and won't end up blocking your domain if the test >fails). I'm assuming the following means it's safe for me to have this system connected to the net. I'm now in the process of also testing with www.ordb.com, and have already tried the telnet trick posted earlier. Yes, I'm trying to make D*** sure I'm not an open relay! Zane Mail relay testing Connecting to xxx.xxxxxxxx.com for anonymous test ... <<< 220 xxx.xxxxxxxx.com V5.1-15F, OpenVMS V7.2-1H1 Alpha ready at Sat, 18 May 2002 10:02:13 -0700 (PDT) >>> HELO www.abuse.net <<< 250 xxx.xxxxxxxx.com Hello www.abuse.net, pleased to meet you Relay test 1 >>> RSET <<< 250 OK >>> MAIL FROM: <<< 250 ... Sender OK >>> RCPT TO: <<< 551 User not local, Relay disabled. Relay test 2 >>> RSET <<< 250 OK >>> MAIL FROM: <<< 550 Closing transmission channel. Relay test 3 >>> RSET <<< Relay test result Could not reset connection, test failed. -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From classiccmp at mail.vintage-computer.com Fri May 17 21:51:36 2002 From: classiccmp at mail.vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Altair Assistance Request Message-ID: Hello all, I am relatively new to vintage computing and this list, although I've been working and playing with computers for a long time. I am, however, a software guy and have only a little skill with or knowledge of hardware. I've recently acquired a pair of Altair computers (8800 and 8800a) both equipped with the "88-DCDD" single 8" disk drives. Unfortunately, I am having various difficulties with these machines. Hopefully the answers to some questions will push me towards a better understanding of these systems. My main issue at the moment revolves around the EPROM cards that hold the disk boot loader (DBL) PROMs for these machines. The cards are Solid State Music ?2K/4K? cards with 16 slots for 1702s. I asked the list about these cards before and have since obtained an assembly/instruction manual, but it is still unclear to me how these things are configured and addressed. There are four address switches which are supposed to address the board as follows (this is taken from the manual): Address: 000 000 to 017 377 - All switches on 020 000 to 037 377 - A2, A3, A4 on 040 000 to 057 377 - A1, A3, A4 on 060 000 to 077 377 - A3, A4 on 100 000 to 117 377 - A1, A2, A4 on 120 000 to 137 377 - A2, A4 on 140 000 to 157 377 - A1, A4 on 160 000 to 177 377 - A4 on 200 000 to 217 377 - A1, A2, A3 on 220 000 to 237 377 - A2, A3 on 240 000 to 257 377 - A1, A3 on 260 000 to 277 377 - A3 on 300 000 to 317 377 - A1, A2 on 320 000 to 337 377 - A2 on 240 000 to 357 377 - A1 on 360 000 to 377 377 - None on I see issues with this from the outset. First, assuming this is octal, the addresses past 160 000 are beyond the address space of the 8080 chip in the Altair (200 000 being 64K). As well, the gap of 16k at 160 000 to 200 000 is either an error in the manual or something I am missing since I can?t imagine the binary progression of switches having that gap. How is this card addressed? I?ve tried examining my way through the memory areas that I think are supposed to be addressed into the EPROMs (based upon various assumptions) but I get results that have me confused. Answers to some of these questions might help: Why would the address lights on the Altair not properly correspond to the address switches being set? If I set the switches at 1110111000000000, for instance, when I reset then examine the light at A11 doesn?t come on (the lights show 1110011000000000) even though I know that LED to be functioning. Why would the data lights ever show anything but on or off? I sometimes get dim glows from the data LEDs. What data can I expect to be in the RAM on boot-up? Is this answer different for Static vs. Dynamic RAM? What is the best way to execute the boot loader should I locate it? Can I set the address switches to the proper spot and run or do I need to code a simple program that will ?JMP? to the known address? Much of my confusion might stem from the EPROMs themselves since they may have been erased by time. I have a freshly burned set on order which may help. Please forgive my ignorance and this really long post. Thanks in advance, Erik _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sat May 18 11:27:00 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 powered up and going :-) only a little :-( Message-ID: <3CE680D4.60507@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, finally I got around branching off a power line from my 220V 60A dedicated computer power circuit :-) I have all three phases of the VAX connected to a single 110 V phase. Matt, I fiddled with the fuses and found that I had to have F1 and F2 connected or else more than half of the outlets would habve no power. This whole power distribution and interlock system is still a mystery to me, does anyone have schematics for it? What worries me is that the key switch seems to have no effect whatsoever, it doesn't provide any more or less power, and throwing it from OFF to LOCAL doesn't effect any reboot attempt on the console system. Anyhow, I can get to the console and do some @140200G and indeed the RX01 starts klicking and up comes the console program. It tells me that the WCS and FPLA versions mismatch, (0E-xx vs 0F) but that isn't fatal, I gather. Then I did a TEST with the MIC diagnostics floppy and that runs through sections 01 to 07 and then has an error to report with module M8234 (PCS CPU PROM CONTROL STORE, as I gather.) The appropriate course of action would be to call DEC field service and replace the board, I guess. Too bad. I suppose the trick with replacing the M8234 will be the PCS version. I noted that if WCS and PCS versions mismatch, that would be a fatal error to begin with. That means it will be extremely hard to replace the PCS, or won't it? Could one do anything to repair that PCS? I suppose so, but not if one has no idea what's wrong with it. Any advice? Back in normal console mode, I tried to do a BOOT anyway, just to see if that PCS problem may be not that bad. But that's a no go, it comes up to a failure pretty quick. Could be that it's just because the default boot device isn't there, but it's too quick with the error. So, that will be a more difficult start then. But I guess I'm still lucky because at least I can get to the MIC diagnostics at all (poor Matt.) But of course one wonders what else might be broken? Is there a way to copy console floppies? I noticed some serious bit rott, as only one out of three standard console floppies actually worked. I guess it's about time to back up the good ones before they go too. thanks -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sat May 18 12:48:17 2002 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 powered up and going :-) only a little :-( In-Reply-To: <3CE680D4.60507@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <200205181748.MAA16453@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > Is there a way to copy console floppies? I noticed some > serious bit rott, as only one out of three standard console > floppies actually worked. I guess it's about time to back > up the good ones before they go too. > > thanks > -Gunther > Just 11/780 floppies, or do you also need 11/785 floppies? I have a set i rescued last summer, various diagnostics and stuff. -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu From rhudson at cnonline.net Sat May 18 13:35:20 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: [ot] Newbie C programming help.... Message-ID: <02051811352000.01257@sputnik> Hi, You've seen me around the list before.. Can anyone lend me a hand, off list, with some "C" and curses.h questions? Thanks. Ron. From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Sat May 18 13:37:06 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100/90 Message-ID: > jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: >On 17 May, Antonio Carlini wrote: > >> There should be a little slide switch at the back. When it is >> up it will use that port (3 - with the printer icon) >And what will it do when the switch is down? Autoboot? I know that >switch from VAXstations to switch the machine from graphics to serial >console. But this machine has no graphics. With the switch down (the normal position) the console is on MMJ-0 and a on the terminal will be ignored. With the switch up MMJ-3 will be used as the alternative console and will halt the system. As far as autobooting goes, that's not dependent on the switch setting - it depends on the console settings as stored in NVRAM. I think this is pretty much the same for all the MicroVAX 3100 systems. It is also true for all the VAXstation 3100/4000 systems except (as you note) with the switch down the graphics head is used as a console and not MMJ-0. Antonio From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Sat May 18 13:59:31 2002 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Altair Assistance Request Message-ID: <01KHVGYT5QCO926AGE@cc.usu.edu> Eric Klein said: > I see issues with this from the outset. First, assuming > this is octal, the addresses past 160 000 are beyond the > address space of the 8080 chip in the Altair (200 000 being > 64K). Not if it's split octal. Each byte converted to octal and listed separately. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From donm at cts.com Sat May 18 14:15:35 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 18 May 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 17 May 2002, Gordon Zaft wrote: > > > I am not subscribed to cctech so I couldn't say what happens. > > Well, currently, as far as I can tell, nothing is happening on CCTECH > because everyone is waiting for the the list split to start working in the > way intended. But CCTECH will be pointless until one of the previously > described methods is implemented to make sure CCTECH subscribers are > seeing all on-topic messages. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * If this has been suggested, I missed it. But it seems that a simple solution would be for messages originated in CCTECH to carry a `Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org' line instead of the `cctalk' one that they presently do. This would put the reply back to the originating group and keep the originator in the dialogue loop, and following the current protocol the reply would then be forwarded to cctalk. - don From donm at cts.com Sat May 18 14:26:56 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 powered up and going :-) only a little :-( In-Reply-To: <3CE680D4.60507@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 May 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Hi, > > finally I got around branching off a power line from my 220V 60A > dedicated computer power circuit :-) I have all three phases of > the VAX connected to a single 110 V phase. > > Matt, I fiddled with the fuses and found that I had to have F1 and > F2 connected or else more than half of the outlets would habve no > power. This whole power distribution and interlock system is still > a mystery to me, does anyone have schematics for it? What worries > me is that the key switch seems to have no effect whatsoever, it > doesn't provide any more or less power, and throwing it from OFF > to LOCAL doesn't effect any reboot attempt on the console system. > > Anyhow, I can get to the console and do some > > @140200G > > and indeed the RX01 starts klicking and up comes the console > program. It tells me that the WCS and FPLA versions mismatch, > (0E-xx vs 0F) but that isn't fatal, I gather. > > Then I did a TEST with the MIC diagnostics floppy and that > runs through sections 01 to 07 and then has an error to > report with module M8234 (PCS CPU PROM CONTROL STORE, as I > gather.) The appropriate course of action would be to call > DEC field service and replace the board, I guess. Too bad. > > I suppose the trick with replacing the M8234 will be the > PCS version. I noted that if WCS and PCS versions mismatch, > that would be a fatal error to begin with. That means it > will be extremely hard to replace the PCS, or won't it? > > Could one do anything to repair that PCS? I suppose so, but > not if one has no idea what's wrong with it. Any advice? > > Back in normal console mode, I tried to do a BOOT anyway, > just to see if that PCS problem may be not that bad. But > that's a no go, it comes up to a failure pretty quick. Could > be that it's just because the default boot device isn't there, > but it's too quick with the error. > > So, that will be a more difficult start then. But I guess I'm > still lucky because at least I can get to the MIC diagnostics > at all (poor Matt.) But of course one wonders what else might > be broken? > > Is there a way to copy console floppies? I noticed some > serious bit rott, as only one out of three standard console > floppies actually worked. I guess it's about time to back > up the good ones before they go too. If you have a PC with the appropriate drive installed, get a copy of AnaDisk and copy to your hearts content. - don > thanks > -Gunther > > > > -- > Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org > Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care > Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine > tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat May 18 13:31:47 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Altair Assistance Request In-Reply-To: from "Erik S. Klein" at May 17, 2 07:51:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2953 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020518/f3e458a5/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat May 18 14:23:47 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES) In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at May 17, 2 09:36:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 605 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020518/855102ab/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat May 18 14:29:04 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: E&S PS-390 In-Reply-To: <3CE6889D.878ED46D@gifford.co.uk> from "John Honniball" at May 18, 2 06:00:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1092 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020518/553b3cfe/attachment.ksh From nemesis-lists at icequake.net Sat May 18 14:57:11 2002 From: nemesis-lists at icequake.net (Ryan Underwood) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] RE: [CCTECH] TRS-80 Model 1 List bifurcation Message-ID: Tony Duell wrote: > [Long political rant deleted] > > Could somebody please explain to me how that rant has anything to do with > classic computers Hehe... I think the problem is that good old Godwin's Law [http://www.godwinslaw.com/] seems to infest this list at times. :) People are too willing to fan the flames when quasi-political ranting is brought up, instead of letting the moderator take care of it. That's the real problem. -- Ryan Underwood, , icq=10317253 From foo at siconic.com Sat May 18 15:46:59 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 18 May 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > If this has been suggested, I missed it. But it seems that a simple > solution would be for messages originated in CCTECH to carry a > `Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org' line instead of the `cctalk' one that they > presently do. This would put the reply back to the originating group and > keep the originator in the dialogue loop, and following the current > protocol the reply would then be forwarded to cctalk. Great idea. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vonhagen at vonhagen.org Sat May 18 16:16:28 2002 From: vonhagen at vonhagen.org (William von Hagen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: Suggestions for Raw Tape Reading Under Linux? In-Reply-To: <20020518170001.76605.97247.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20020518170001.76605.97247.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <1021756589.2940.55.camel@distfs.vonhagen.org> Hi. I've been trying to read in a variety of old backup cartridge tapes as raw data so that I can write some tools to parse them (or port the old backup software used to write them). This seems to be the easiest way to explore old backup data from a variety of old machines without having to fire up the machines themselves. Since I'm trying to do this from a Unix (Linux) box, 'dd' was the obvious first choice, but I don't know things like the block size at which the tapes were originally written. Ideally, I'd just like to read raw data from the media, period. I've tried reading the tapes using 'dd' with a variety of block sizes, but still get zero-length input files. The drives I'm using to read the data are capabable of the densities at which they were written, and I understand the Unix/Linux device numbers - you can hear that the drives are working at the correct density, but I'm still not getting data. I even wrote a little program to just read data directly from the raw device, but don't seem to be getting anything there either.The drives whir and whine, but I get nada. Any suggestions? Any utilities you'd suggest rather than 'dd'? Many of these are non-Unix systems, so 'tar' and 'cpio' aren't appropriate. Thanks! Bill From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sat May 18 16:31:17 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: E&S PS-390 References: Message-ID: <3CE6C825.6D9733AD@gifford.co.uk> Tony Duell wrote: > Pity the key membrane for the function keys on the Apricot is almost > always dead... You're way ahead of me here, Tony! Yes, my Apricot key membrane is dead. And so are the ones on my Sinclair Spectrums, before anyone asks... > The E&S uses a pair of those HP LED 'starburst' displays (I forget > exactly which ones, maybe 1414s) for each key. And IIRC there are 12 > function keys on the keyboard. Sounds great! It'll light up like a Christmas tree! > There's also the twiddlebox (8 shaft encoders with knobs which you use to > pan/rotate/zoom the image on the display), again with 8 character LED > displays to label each knob. I saw a dialbox like that for a Sun at Mendelson's in Dayton, and kicked myself all the way home for not buying it. That, and the IBM PS/2 Model 25. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat May 18 17:54:29 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: WTB: VAXstation Message-ID: <20020518225429.GE7035@mrbill.net> I'm looking to buy a halfway decent VAXstation (3100, or preferrably something like a VLC). One requirement - it needs to have the 15-pin graphics monitor connection on the back, so I can use this BC23K cable to connect to the VRE01 I got today for $5. 8-) (Yes, I'm buying a computer to hook to a monitor, not the other way around!) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sat May 18 18:54:37 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: DECserver 100 tech manual (EK-DSRVA-TM)? Message-ID: <009101c1fec7$5f8b5b80$80469280@y5f3q8> Anyone have one, electronic or otherwise, or even owners guide? It appears I can still actually buy the tech manual from D^HC^HHP, but I really don't want to pay $50 for a manual to a termserver that I got for $0. Bob From jwest at classiccmp.org Sat May 18 19:09:06 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES) References: Message-ID: <008701c1fec9$6531d210$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP> It's great to hear the suggestions and points that Sellam and Jerome bring up in their last few posts. I just wish they would have brought up these points weeks ago when I brought up the ideal of the split lists. Would have been nice to ponder their input back then. From pat at purdueriots.com Sat May 18 19:09:10 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: DEC Pro-350 Message-ID: Does anyone have info on getting one of these to work with a serial console? I *could* build myself a console cable, and probably will do that, but getting this thing running at least *somewhat* would be nice right now. -- Pat From geoffr at zipcon.net Sat May 18 19:41:34 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: [OT] Seeking Mac Powerbook Floppy Drive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020518173029.00a89260@mail.zipcon.net> At 11:51 PM 5/17/02 -0400, you wrote: > >Well, a diskette jammed in the PB 5300ce's drive last week, > >and in addition to a spring or something broken or missing > >on the eject mechanism, I seem to have knocked the upper > >head out of alignment, so it's kaput (and the topic is > >admittedly off-topic as the 5300 is a 1996 product). http://www.baber.com/drives/floppy_drives/internal_laptop.htm you'll need to know the manufacturer of the drive and model # to get on here... http://www.galaxyhp.com/repstorage.html DRIEX-30289 PBook 190, 5300 Apple 1.44MB Floppy Drive $135 R180 another mac floppy source http://www.users.qwest.net/~jgarbacz/laptop.html 1) 190/5300 Floppy Module, $25.00 <- no indication if it has the floppy drive in it :( Junkyard Jeff, I've purchased from him before, good prices, good service. http://www.powerbookguy.com/5300.html#serviceparts Floppy Drive Mechanism for PowerBook 5300/190 Floppy Module (used) - $49.95 Floppy Drive Mechanism for PowerBook 5300/190 Floppy Module (new) - $79.95 this guy does nothing but powerbook stuff.... http://www.shrevesystems.com/floppydrives.html 129 for a referb, 149 for a new floppy http://www2.sunrem.com/sun02.w?pt=661-1360&catcode=15520 From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat May 18 19:35:34 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: DECserver 100 tech manual (EK-DSRVA-TM)? In-Reply-To: <009101c1fec7$5f8b5b80$80469280@y5f3q8> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 May 2002, Robert Schaefer wrote: > Anyone have one, electronic or otherwise, or even owners guide? It > appears I can still actually buy the tech manual from D^HC^HHP, but I > really don't want to pay $50 for a manual to a termserver that I got > for $0. I think I may have one. I'll see if I can find it and get it scanned -Toth From dittman at dittman.net Sat May 18 19:30:43 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:30 2005 Subject: WTB: VAXstation In-Reply-To: <20020518225429.GE7035@mrbill.net> from "Bill Bradford" at May 18, 2002 05:54:29 PM Message-ID: <200205190030.g4J0UhN17019@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I'm looking to buy a halfway decent VAXstation (3100, or preferrably something > like a VLC). One requirement - it needs to have the 15-pin graphics monitor > connection on the back, so I can use this BC23K cable to connect to the > VRE01 I got today for $5. 8-) > > (Yes, I'm buying a computer to hook to a monitor, not the other way around!) I have a VRE01 and a VLC, and the VLC would not drive the VRE01 monitor. A VAXstation 4000/60 I have does drive the VRE01. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat May 18 19:47:37 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: DECserver 100 tech manual (EK-DSRVA-TM)? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 18 May 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > On Sat, 18 May 2002, Robert Schaefer wrote: > > > Anyone have one, electronic or otherwise, or even owners guide? It > > appears I can still actually buy the tech manual from D^HC^HHP, but I > > really don't want to pay $50 for a manual to a termserver that I got > > for $0. > > I think I may have one. I'll see if I can find it and get it scanned Turns out the manual I have is just the Hardware Installation Guide. It has a list of additional manuals on the third page. Would a scanned copy of this manual be of any use? It isn't really much of a manual, but might have some useful info in it. Is there any demand for these terminal servers? I see piles of them from time to time, but I haven't bothered picking up any since I don't have much room to store them. -Toth From dittman at dittman.net Sat May 18 19:41:27 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: DECserver 100 tech manual (EK-DSRVA-TM)? In-Reply-To: <009101c1fec7$5f8b5b80$80469280@y5f3q8> from "Robert Schaefer" at May 18, 2002 07:54:37 PM Message-ID: <200205190041.g4J0fRi17081@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Anyone have one, electronic or otherwise, or even owners guide? It appears > I can still actually buy the tech manual from D^HC^HHP, but I really don't > want to pay $50 for a manual to a termserver that I got for $0. What kind of information do you need? I think I have an electronic manual, but if you can tell me what you need that will make digging it out easier. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From labomb at rochester.rr.com Sat May 18 18:33:19 2002 From: labomb at rochester.rr.com (Scott LaBombard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Altair Assistance Request Message-ID: <006201c1fec4$64d7e480$05a8a8c0@rochester.rr.com> Hello Erik, Tony's response to your post was right on. I would like to add that the MITS boot eprom must be located at 177400 (or FF00H) to work correctly. So in your case, all switches should be off to locate the card at 360 000 to 377 377 (F000 to FFFF) in the last 4k block. The DBL eprom should then be in the last socket (highest addressable socket) of the eprom card. Once things are configured correctly, you should be able to set the front panel switches to FF00, hit 'Examine', and then hit 'Run' ... at which point the drive should enable, the head should load, and then an attempt to read the boot tracks (0-5 is typical for MITS software) should proceed. Best regards, Scott From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sat May 18 20:05:49 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES) References: <008701c1fec9$6531d210$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <3CE6FA6D.1ADE5FF0@compsys.to> >Jay West wrote: > It's great to hear the suggestions and points that Sellam and Jerome bring > up in their last few posts. > > I just wish they would have brought up these points weeks ago when I brought > up the ideal of the split lists. Would have been nice to ponder their input > back then. Jerome Fine replies: Sorry Jay, but if you think I can remember what I said even yesterday, let alone a few days ago, then you have a lot to look forward to when you get to be a senior. I have enough trouble remembering what the bugs are in the programs I am fixing. Plus with all the stuff around the house that my wife has decided that she wants done - and ME to do the work - washing the kitchen walls to remove the old wallpaper paste, painting the kitchens walls, realizing that the kitchen ceiling also needs washing before it is painted (after 15 years the ceiling needs a wash) and finally weeding the garden, I really need two of me or maybe one less wife. NO, one less wife will not do - after being married for 45 years, I refuse to take the time to get used to someone else and besides I doubt if someone else would want to get used to me. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat May 18 22:11:50 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Altair Assistance Request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020518221150.568f4e1c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Erik, I used to have an Altair with the MITS disk drive system including the disk drive boot strap option. The boot strap option was a pair (IIRC) of 1702s in the MITS EPROM board. I looked the code in them and it's exactly the same as the boot strap loader that the disk drive instructions tell you how to toggle in with the front panel switchs so if all else fails toogle in the code that's shown in the DD manual. That way you can tell if your DD system is working or it the problem is in the BS loader EPROMs. I don't have the Altairs or manuals or anything else any more so that's all I can tell you. However it sounds like you've got problems with the front panel or ????. Joe At 07:51 PM 5/17/02 -0700, you wrote: >Hello all, > >I am relatively new to vintage computing and this list, >although I've been working and playing with computers for a >long time. I am, however, a software guy and have only a >little skill with or knowledge of hardware. > >I've recently acquired a pair of Altair computers (8800 and >8800a) both equipped with the "88-DCDD" single 8" disk >drives. Unfortunately, I am having various difficulties >with these machines. Hopefully the answers to some >questions will push me towards a better understanding of >these systems. > >My main issue at the moment revolves around the EPROM cards >that hold the disk boot loader (DBL) PROMs for these >machines. The cards are Solid State Music “2K/4K” cards >with 16 slots for 1702s. I asked the list about these cards >before and have since obtained an assembly/instruction >manual, but it is still unclear to me how these things are >configured and addressed. > >There are four address switches which are supposed to >address the board as follows (this is taken from the >manual): > >Address: >000 000 to 017 377 - All switches on >020 000 to 037 377 - A2, A3, A4 on >040 000 to 057 377 - A1, A3, A4 on >060 000 to 077 377 - A3, A4 on >100 000 to 117 377 - A1, A2, A4 on >120 000 to 137 377 - A2, A4 on >140 000 to 157 377 - A1, A4 on >160 000 to 177 377 - A4 on >200 000 to 217 377 - A1, A2, A3 on >220 000 to 237 377 - A2, A3 on >240 000 to 257 377 - A1, A3 on >260 000 to 277 377 - A3 on >300 000 to 317 377 - A1, A2 on >320 000 to 337 377 - A2 on >240 000 to 357 377 - A1 on >360 000 to 377 377 - None on > >I see issues with this from the outset. First, assuming >this is octal, the addresses past 160 000 are beyond the >address space of the 8080 chip in the Altair (200 000 being >64K). As well, the gap of 16k at 160 000 to 200 000 is >either an error in the manual or something I am missing >since I can’t imagine the binary progression of switches >having that gap. How is this card addressed? > >I’ve tried examining my way through the memory areas that I >think are supposed to be addressed into the EPROMs (based >upon various assumptions) but I get results that have me >confused. Answers to some of these questions might help: > >Why would the address lights on the Altair not properly >correspond to the address switches being set? If I set the >switches at 1110111000000000, for instance, when I reset >then examine the light at A11 doesn’t come on (the lights >show 1110011000000000) even though I know that LED to be >functioning. > >Why would the data lights ever show anything but on or off? >I sometimes get dim glows from the data LEDs. > >What data can I expect to be in the RAM on boot-up? Is this >answer different for Static vs. Dynamic RAM? > >What is the best way to execute the boot loader should I >locate it? Can I set the address switches to the proper >spot and run or do I need to code a simple program that will >“JMP” to the known address? > >Much of my confusion might stem from the EPROMs themselves >since they may have been erased by time. I have a freshly >burned set on order which may help. > >Please forgive my ignorance and this really long post. > >Thanks in advance, > > Erik >_______________________________________________ >cctech mailing list >cctech@classiccmp.org >http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat May 18 20:46:19 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: Testing for Open Relays? In-Reply-To: "Zane H. Healy" "Re: Testing for Open Relays?" (May 18, 10:19) References: "Zane H. Healy" "Testing for Open Relays?" (May 17 22:23) Message-ID: <10205190246.ZM15684@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 18, 10:19, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I'm assuming the following means it's safe for me to have this system > connected to the net. I'm now in the process of also testing with > www.ordb.com, and have already tried the telnet trick posted earlier. > Relay test 3 > > >>> RSET > <<< > > Relay test result > > Could not reset connection, test failed. Um, no, I'm afraid it means your SMTP software bombed. It failed to go to the reset (initial) state after the second test, so the test sequence was aborted, and the remaining 16 or so (?) tests weren't carried out. I wouldn't trust that software just yet... I think the next test would have been something involving a message ostensibly from the "<>" address (which represents the mailer daemon), and then some tests involving forged addresses intended to look like your own domain, and then assorted routed or malformed addresses. Some of these are very important, and your site hasn't been tested for most of them. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sat May 18 21:40:33 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 powered up and going :-) only a little :-( References: <200205181748.MAA16453@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3CE710A1.8050203@aurora.regenstrief.org> Lawrence LeMay wrote: > Just 11/780 floppies, or do you also need 11/785 floppies? I have a set > i rescued last summer, various diagnostics and stuff. Hi Lawrence, originally this was just the question if there is some way to copy the floppies that I have. However, since my 11/780 is really a "convertible" (I "just" need to pick up that KA785 backplane 650 miles from here.) So, if you have 11/785 disks spare, don't throw them away :-) I'm trying to get a DSD440 drive, then I can program my PDP-8/A to copy 8" disks (or I suppose I could do that with the VAX once I get its hardware debugged.) thanks -Gunther PS: what's cctalk@classiccmp.org? A new list? What are the rules to post to either now? -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From spc at conman.org Sat May 18 21:49:57 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: Testing for Open Relays? In-Reply-To: <10205190246.ZM15684@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at May 19, 2002 01:46:19 AM Message-ID: <200205190249.WAA09399@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Pete Turnbull once stated: > > I think the next test would have been something involving a message > ostensibly from the "<>" address (which represents the mailer daemon), and > then some tests involving forged addresses intended to look like your own > domain, and then assorted routed or malformed addresses. Some of these are > very important, and your site hasn't been tested for most of them. I've had to harden sendmail against some of these attacks (by modifying sendmail.cf [1]). Assuming that ``sean@conman.org'' (my spam catching address) is the one being targeted, and ``armigeron.com'' (which I do some side work for from time to time) is the host being used for the relay, I've had to check for: "sean@conman.org"@armigern.com sean@conman.org@armigeron.com "sean%conman.org"@armigeron.com sean%conman.org@armigeron.com "sean@conman.org"%armigeron.com sean@conman.org%armigeron.com There may be a few more obscure methods, but I think those where the only ones I needed to protect against. -spc (Been there, done that, used be listed on MAPs or ORBs or one of those systems ... ) [1] I modified the current senamil.cf because I had modified the sendmail configuration to support virtual domains (before sendmail had included support through virtusertable[2]) and using a more current sendmail.cf would have removed such modifications. [2] I decided not to use sendmail.cf's virtusertable because the method I used was more flexible (each domain has their own file) and because a customer of Armigeron had the ability to modify the email addresses for their domains (whereas using virtusertable, *every* domain is in a single file). Plus, a recipient email address can have more than one destination address (another restriction of virtusertable that requires some nasty workarounds). From oliv555 at arrl.net Sat May 18 21:39:39 2002 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: WTB: VAXstation References: <200205190030.g4J0UhN17019@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3CE7106B.7020405@arrl.net> Eric Dittman wrote: >>I'm looking to buy a halfway decent VAXstation (3100, or preferrably something >>like a VLC). One requirement - it needs to have the 15-pin graphics monitor >>connection on the back, so I can use this BC23K cable to connect to the >>VRE01 I got today for $5. 8-) >> >>(Yes, I'm buying a computer to hook to a monitor, not the other way around!) > > > I have a VRE01 and a VLC, and the VLC would not drive the > VRE01 monitor. A VAXstation 4000/60 I have does drive the > VRE01. Thought I read somewhere, probably on this list, that the VLC was sold with three different graphics interfaces. I've always driven mine with a vt420 so don't know which flavor interface mine has. VRE01 for $5 !?!! where from ? I lust for one of those.... -nick o From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat May 18 22:18:44 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: WTB: VAXstation In-Reply-To: <3CE7106B.7020405@arrl.net> References: <200205190030.g4J0UhN17019@narnia.int.dittman.net> <3CE7106B.7020405@arrl.net> Message-ID: <20020519031844.GI7035@mrbill.net> On Sat, May 18, 2002 at 08:39:39PM -0600, no wrote: > VRE01 for $5 !?!! where from ? I lust for one of those.... Goodwill. I STILL cant beleive its sitting here: Pictures: http://gallery.mrbill.net/view_album.php?set_albumName=vre01 It didnt have a VGA connector, so it was in the "as-is, we dont know what it is" pile. I wanted to grab it and RUN out the door. 8-) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat May 18 22:39:11 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: Testing for Open Relays? In-Reply-To: <10205190246.ZM15684@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: "Zane H. Healy" "Re: Testing for Open Relays?" (May 18, 10:19) "Zane H. Healy" "Testing for Open Relays?" (May 17 22:23) Message-ID: >Um, no, I'm afraid it means your SMTP software bombed. It failed to go to >the reset (initial) state after the second test, so the test sequence was >aborted, and the remaining 16 or so (?) tests weren't carried out. I >wouldn't trust that software just yet... Relay test 2 >>> RSET <<< 250 OK >>> MAIL FROM: <<< 550 Closing transmission channel. Relay test 3 >>> RSET <<< Actually as near as I can tell, the reason test 3 is failing is because VMS reacted to test 2 by breaking the connection. This seems to be verified by my results from telneting in on port 25. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat May 18 22:44:23 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: Needed: OpenVMS/VAX 7.2 Message-ID: <20020519034423.GK7035@mrbill.net> Anybody got a copy of OpenVMS/VAX 7.2 that they can make an image of for me? (if possible; easier to download/burn than to mail)... I got one from Doc a few months ago, but cant find it now... Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From rdd at rddavis.org Sat May 18 23:04:06 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020519040406.GB7541@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Sat, May 18, 2002 at 08:23:47PM +0100: > The problem with this is that most reasonable people here do not > deliberately start off-topic threads. Instead, threads drift off-topic, > and doubtless somebody will therefore reply to something in an off-topic > way in CCTECH. Which will then annoy the CCTECHers... Indeed. One observation is that often, what seems like a minor off-topic remark, unintended to spawn a lengthy thread, can turn into a lengthy off-topic thread. One idea that may help those of us who get tempted to make off-topic remarks is to "wait and re-read before sending." That is, if a message seems to contain a hint of off-topic wording, save it, wait a while, and then re-consider re-sending it to the list. While it can be fun, and thought provoking, to engage in some off-topic discussion and debating, the biggest problem appears to be that there are only 24 hours in a day, and reading through off-topic discussions, or trying to weed through them to get to the on-topic bits, takes a great deal of time that many of us don't have to spare---and time that could be better spent on other activities. So, while there are the issues of freedom of speech, and sometimes very interesting debates, on one hand, there's the loss of time from one's life on the other hand. Of course, adding OT: to the subject for messages that drift off-topic can save a great deal of time for many people on the list, allowing one to quickly scan through messages and delete them once the off-topicness of a particular thread becomes too tedious. What seems to annoy many people, including myself, is that the concern that certain people on this list have, with regards to off-topic messages, is not a concern for wasted time, but the concern over "offensive" messages, and, as a result, these over-sensitive and politically correct people seek to censor what others say. While I'm all for freedom of speech, and against political correctness, I realize that religion and politics are sometimes best left out of discussions where they don't belong, as tempting as it can be at times for some to go OT and bring such things into a conversation - there's no point in causing a rift between people who, otherwise, have interests in common. Perhaps the aforementioned "wait then post" method could eliminate a sizeable portion of off-topic messages, while still allowing enough to get through on CCTALK to provide for the occasional interesting OT thread or message. I greatly appreciate what Jay is doing to try to correct the problems, and hope that everyone will be patient with him. He's done much to help us with our hobby, and perhaps we really need to judge this list more by it's merits, which are many, rather than continuing to complain about it. After all, this list, and many on it, is a great resource for sharing information that allows us to preserve and restore our vintage systems. Equally problematic and time wasting, as I see it, are the discussions that drift from one subject to another (even if on-topic for the list) with no change in the subject header. This results in discussions of multiple subjects with the same subject header, thus making it difficult to weed through large numbers of messages. Just my two cents worth. R.D.D. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From allain at panix.com Sat May 18 19:01:21 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES) References: Message-ID: <000201c1fee9$4546fdc0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Sellam Ismail: > the record of people's ability to police themselves > on here is pretty dismal Tend to agree. But I'll mention that before the choices were: Say and NoSay Now the choices are Say, SayOT, and NoSay, if you take TALK to be the OT list and the TECH list to be the on topic one. John A. From hansp at aconit.org Sat May 18 23:51:12 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: DEC Pro-350 References: Message-ID: <3CE72F40.7030907@aconit.org> Pat Finnegan wrote: > Does anyone have info on getting one of these to work with a serial > console? I *could* build myself a console cable, and probably will do > that, but getting this thing running at least *somewhat* would be nice > right now. This, from the Pro 300 series Technical Manual page 5-8: The console DL is included as a maintenance feature. Physically it is the same port as the printer port. The printer port can be made to simulate a standard console interface. When a terminal is connected to the port instead of a printer, the address decoder reconizes the console addresses 17777560-17777566. In this mode the port programs like a DL serial device with a receiver CSR, a receiver data buffer, a transmitter CSR, and a transmitter data buffer. Accesses to these registers when a terminal is not connected to the port result in reads of all zeros and writes with no effect. All the printer port reisters 17773400-17773406 are always available. ..... When pins 8 and 9 of the printer port connecter J6 short, the hardware determiens that a terminal is connected to the port. When usingt he port for a printer, a printer port cable (PN BCC05) should be used (the cable does not short pins 8 and 9).... -- hbp From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat May 18 16:08:57 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 powered up and going :-) only a little :-( In-Reply-To: <3CE680D4.60507@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <200205182108.g4IL8v501965@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 18 May, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Is there a way to copy console floppies? I have written a RX01/02 driver for NetBSD/vax, that is nerly finished... If you have a separate VAX with RX01/02, you can use that machine to make images. -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun May 19 06:43:30 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: Testing for Open Relays? In-Reply-To: "Zane H. Healy" "Re: Testing for Open Relays?" (May 18, 20:39) References: "Zane H. Healy" "Re: Testing for Open Relays?" (May 18 10:19) "Zane H. Healy" "Testing for Open Relays?" (May 17 22:23) Message-ID: <10205191243.ZM15936@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 18, 20:39, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Relay test 3 > > >>> RSET > <<< > > Actually as near as I can tell, the reason test 3 is failing is because VMS > reacted to test 2 by breaking the connection. This seems to be verified by > my results from telneting in on port 25. Looks like it, but it shouldn't do that. It should accept or reject the address and then allow the RSET to reset the envelope. If that's consistent behaviour, and you want to run the rest of the tests, you'll need to find out what they are (or devise equivalents) and do each by hand. Some of them have to be run from a non-local connection, so you might need an accomplice. http://www.sxlist.com/techref/inet/smtpsend.htm has a sample transcript if you want to try individual tests by hand. BTW, there is one shortcoming of the tests -- they check to see if the mail is rejected at the time of the SMTP exchange; some people have argued that it's OK to accept the mail so long as it's not delivered. Personally, I prefer not to have some spammer wasting my resources and I prefer the mail to be rejected at the earliest possible point. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun May 19 06:52:48 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: DECserver 100 tech manual (EK-DSRVA-TM)? References: <200205190041.g4J0fRi17081@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <005c01c1ff2b$e68161c0$a5469280@y5f3q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Dittman" To: Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 08:41 PM Subject: Re: DECserver 100 tech manual (EK-DSRVA-TM)? > > Anyone have one, electronic or otherwise, or even owners guide? It appears > > I can still actually buy the tech manual from D^HC^HHP, but I really don't > > want to pay $50 for a manual to a termserver that I got for $0. > > What kind of information do you need? I think I have an > electronic manual, but if you can tell me what you need > that will make digging it out easier. The original plan was just a conserver for my VAXcluster, but in my searches for a manual, I came across a few interesting tidbits of information: The DECserver is based on a 680[01]0, with 256k ram. The serial chips used have modem control (*unverified) DEC has/had a technical manual with details of the memory map etc. and of course the firmware is MOPed from a host server So, a project that started out just a dumb LAT console for my VAXen now has the possibility of growing into something a little neater. It all depends on wether or not I can locate that tech manual. > -- > Eric Dittman Bob From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun May 19 06:52:59 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: DECserver 100 tech manual (EK-DSRVA-TM)? References: Message-ID: <005d01c1ff2b$e73a0360$a5469280@y5f3q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tothwolf" To: Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 08:47 PM Subject: Re: DECserver 100 tech manual (EK-DSRVA-TM)? > On Sat, 18 May 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > On Sat, 18 May 2002, Robert Schaefer wrote: > > > > > Anyone have one, electronic or otherwise, or even owners guide? It > > > appears I can still actually buy the tech manual from D^HC^HHP, but I > > > really don't want to pay $50 for a manual to a termserver that I got > > > for $0. > > > > I think I may have one. I'll see if I can find it and get it scanned > > Turns out the manual I have is just the Hardware Installation Guide. It > has a list of additional manuals on the third page. Would a scanned copy > of this manual be of any use? It isn't really much of a manual, but might > have some useful info in it. Sounds like Eric Dittman has a manual to it already. > > Is there any demand for these terminal servers? I see piles of them from > time to time, but I haven't bothered picking up any since I don't have > much room to store them. I got this to run my VAXcluster. It's LAT only, but see my other post to Eric... > > -Toth From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun May 19 06:17:31 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: Suggestions for Raw Tape Reading Under Linux? In-Reply-To: <1021756589.2940.55.camel@distfs.vonhagen.org> Message-ID: <200205191117.g4JBHVW03311@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 18 May, William von Hagen wrote: > Any suggestions? Any utilities you'd suggest rather than 'dd'? Many of > these are non-Unix systems, so 'tar' and 'cpio' aren't appropriate. FAQ #4711: copytape ;-) Copytape from the TUHS / PUPS archive (http://www.tuhs.org) saves each file on the tape in a separate disk file and writes the block size of each tape file and the block count in a log file. -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From allain at panix.com Sun May 19 09:35:23 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: Weekends finds ...2x[OT] References: <200205191117.g4JBHVW03311@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <000901c1ff42$6999dc20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Just two things of note this weekend from an otherwise ordinary Computer show but both good enough to mention IMHO. I found the what was likely the most obsolete machine in the show, and it met my needs very well. Norand/Intermec PenKey 660 "pentop" Had all of the following: touchscreen, Win3.1 pen support, PCMCIA, std Kbd port, Embedded Intermec barcode scanner, modem, working battery, included PSU ....$50 -- finally ends my search for Win/Pen extensions and adds an Intermec scanner to the toolkit Digital cameras for $25 Jamcam 3 with: 640x480, removable media, USB, rs232, flash, override menus. -- A machine cheap enough to hack into a removable lens camera. Up to now the cheapest digicams found were $75. In case you've been looking for similar items, the sellers had more supply and I saved phonenumbers for both. John A. From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Sun May 19 04:57:48 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: look at the VAX 11/780 in action Message-ID: > Gunther Schadow wrote: > >For what it is worth, here you see what my VAX 11/780 does (sad that >all it does fits into one email :-): [snip] >What I'm really wondering is how can one see a directory listing of >the various diskettes from the console program? >How do I start the diagnostic supervisor? >Could it be that I'm missing any boards? It's so empty in there. > From left to right: Have you read the 11/780 docs from http://208.190.133.201/decimages/moremanuals.htm ? There is a fair amout of technical stuff in there. There is also a HW User's Guide at: http://www.wzrd.com/homeb/jroth/home/manuals.htm >PS: I gather that one could really tap into this WCS loading >procedure with custome microcode. That's something I want to >try. Is there any documentation where one can learn how to >do microprogramming? For the 780 (and maybe 785) DEC did at one point sell microprogramming tools. I guess someone might still have this info, but if they do they're keeping quiet about it! Antonio From dougq at iglou.com Sun May 19 11:23:34 2002 From: dougq at iglou.com (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: cctalk list (CHANGES)" Message-ID: <000e01c1ff51$86ef7b40$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > > It's great to hear the suggestions and points that Sellam and Jerome bring > > up in their last few posts. > > > > I just wish they would have brought up these points weeks ago when I brought > > up the ideal of the split lists. Would have been nice to ponder their input > > back then. > > Jerome Fine replies: > > Sorry Jay, but if you think I can remember what I said even > yesterday, let alone a few days ago, then you have a lot to > look forward to when you get to be a senior. You've been married 45 years before you got to this point, I'm 45 years old and I'm there already. Will I even remember I used to work with computers by that time? Ah, what a life... my drool cup runneth over... ;) From rodyoung at shaw.ca Sun May 19 09:37:53 2002 From: rodyoung at shaw.ca (Rod Young) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: MS11 config in a PDP 11/44 ? References: <000501c1fd4b$d4ba05a0$72ecffcc@Shadow> <20020518035158.GA4484@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <002e01c1ff42$c2897fc0$0300a8c0@ss.shawcable.net> I recently aquired a PDP 11/44 with 256kB of memory, and a spare 1MB (MS11-PB) card. Question: How so configure the new card so it will work in the 11/44? Will the 44 be happy with both boards? I assume I need to set the switches on the spare 1MB card, but no DOC.... anyone have *any* online doc for memory for the 44? ECC MOS memory. thanks! rod From foo at siconic.com Sun May 19 13:47:36 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES) In-Reply-To: <008701c1fec9$6531d210$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 May 2002, Jay West wrote: > It's great to hear the suggestions and points that Sellam and Jerome bring > up in their last few posts. > > I just wish they would have brought up these points weeks ago when I > brought up the ideal of the split lists. Would have been nice to ponder > their input back then. Well, Jay, I did provide ample input both publically and privately. However, you chose to implement changes that were well outside the scope of what I suggested. So now, I am merely providing suggestions that I can only do after the fact since I hadn't envisioned the changes you have made. Instead of grousing about the griping, you might want to run another poll and see if any new genius arises out of that. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun May 19 13:51:17 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: Testing for Open Relays? In-Reply-To: <10205191243.ZM15936@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: "Zane H. Healy" "Re: Testing for Open Relays?" (May 18, 20:39) "Zane H. Healy" "Re: Testing for Open Relays?" (May 18 10:19) "Zane H. Healy" "Testing for Open Relays?" (May 17 22:23) Message-ID: >http://www.sxlist.com/techref/inet/smtpsend.htm has a sample transcript if >you want to try individual tests by hand. BTW, there is one shortcoming of >the tests -- they check to see if the mail is rejected at the time of the >SMTP exchange; some people have argued that it's OK to accept the mail so >long as it's not delivered. Personally, I prefer not to have some spammer >wasting my resources and I prefer the mail to be rejected at the earliest >possible point. Using the tests at the link above, I did have three other interesting results. rset 250 OK MAIL FROM: 501 Syntax error in reverse-path RCPT TO: 503 Bad command sequence data 503 Bad command sequence rset 250 OK MAIL FROM: RCPT TO: 250 ... Sender OK 550 <> ... Addressee unknown data 503 No valid recipients preceded this rset 250 OK MAIL FROM: RCPT TO:... Sender OK zane.brouhaha.com> 550 <> ... Addressee unknown data 503 No valid recipients preceded this It looks like TCPIP V5.1 on OpenVMS differs from the standard on how it reacts to these as well. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dave at naffnet.org.uk Sun May 19 15:17:00 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: EXABYYE 8500 + Peripheral Vision card Message-ID: <3CE8083C.5700D53A@naffnet.org.uk> Hi, I have an EXABYTE 8500 drive with a Peripheral Vision daughter card plugged into the back (along with the LCD display on the tape door) - I am taking a guess that this card provides hardware compression to the 8500, but, without documentation, I am not sure how to configure it. The board has six DIP switches, numbered 1-6 from right to left as you look at the rear of the drive. 1-3 are the SCSI address, and seemingly must match the SCSI address that was configured on the drive itself - fair enough! Switch 4 enables a menu allowing the selection of 2 and 5GB modes, and I understand from googling that, if I was to have a 8500c then I would also be able to bypass the drives internal compression from here. Once more, this is so far perfectly reasonable. All of which leaves switches 5 & 6, the reason for this message - can anyone tell me what (if anything) they do? Many thanks, Dave. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun May 19 07:51:46 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: WTB: VAXstation In-Reply-To: <20020519031844.GI7035@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <200205191251.g4JCpkx03382@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 18 May, Bill Bradford wrote: > It didnt have a VGA connector, so it was in the "as-is, we dont know > what it is" pile. Tstststs. Nice thing. The pinout of the 15 pin connector is on the net (google....). When this thing can be used on a VAXstation, it wants a regular analog video signal with sync. So it will only require a bit of soldering to get a cable and a bit of tuning the Xserver of your choice to get it going on any machine. -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From owad at applefritter.com Sun May 19 18:46:43 2002 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: Largish computers for sale in PA Message-ID: <20020519234643.23908@mail.earthlink.net> I'm a bit unclear on how this new list setup is supposed to work, so my apologies if I've sent this to the wrong list or in the wrong manner. I have a couple of systems for sale in York, PA. I don't want to ship. Email me if you have questions or want to make an offer. Preference is given to people buying more and taking it away sooner. SparcServer 470 Power supply has problems and the cards are stuck in too tight to get them out with the plastic tabs (IIRC, I broke one of the tabs). Nice chassis, though, and aside from the PS, the cards are probably good. Similar to . DEC 3000 800 This is pretty nice. No keyboard or mouse, but it appears to power up and you might be able to get a terminal working with it. It has an Alpha (RISC) processor and I'm [i]told[/i] 256 MB RAM. The hard drive is something like one or two gigabytes and is supposed to have a BSD installed with the password set to something generic like "password". This was going to be the new Applefritter server but I got fet up with trying to get a terminal to work with it. Looks similar to the two towers in . DEC 3000 something-or-other This is pretty junky but might have some good parts. Free with the DEC 3000 800. Looks similar to . Altos 3086 This was made into a CAD system by Slice. This is a pretty cool looking setup, has a big drawing tablet, and a huge stack of manuals. Information on the Altos: . This also comes with a generic PC or a terminal, or something along the lines of that. If you need more details on any of these systems, let me know. Apple Macintosh LC 580 Working and includes ethernet card. I have a couple of these. Things I'm looking for: Apple and Mac clones Neat Apple stuff Amiga 1000 keyboard Whatever I need to get my Altos running (the catch is I don't know what I need yet, though I'll definitley need software for it on 8" disks) Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From Lists at joules.org Sat May 18 10:44:29 2002 From: Lists at joules.org (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: AS/400 Twinax cabling Message-ID: <8i9ihzBdbn58EwUb@joules.org> I have finally got round to setting up my AS/400 and would appreciate some advice. It came with one terminal and lots of twinax cable. The terminal has a piece of twinax attached with a T piece on the end of it. There are 2 twinax ports on the back of the AS/400. How do I wire the AS/400 to the terminal? Should I just use 1 port or does it loop through the T piece and back to the other port? Should there be some sort of terminator which I don't have? TIA -- Regards Pete "Time flies like an arrow and fruit flies like a banana" From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun May 19 19:04:25 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: Largish computers for sale in PA References: <20020519234643.23908@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <00b901c1ff91$e84102c0$a5469280@y5f3q8> I'm interested in the DEC 3000s, I'm trying to arrange to have it picked up. If that doesn't work, I'm sure you'll have others interested. I don't have much apple hardware, but I do have some interesting books. A red book, some inside apple DOS books, and others. if you're interested, I can go take a look and give you a good list. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Owad" To: "Classic Computer" Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 07:46 PM Subject: Largish computers for sale in PA > I'm a bit unclear on how this new list setup is supposed to work, so my > apologies if I've sent this to the wrong list or in the wrong manner. > > I have a couple of systems for sale in York, PA. I don't want to ship. > Email me if you have questions or want to make an offer. Preference is > given to people buying more and taking it away sooner. > > SparcServer 470 > Power supply has problems and the cards are stuck in too tight to get > them out with the plastic tabs (IIRC, I broke one of the tabs). Nice > chassis, though, and aside from the PS, the cards are probably good. > Similar to workstation2.gif>. > > DEC 3000 800 > This is pretty nice. No keyboard or mouse, but it appears to power up > and you might be able to get a terminal working with it. It has an Alpha > (RISC) processor and I'm [i]told[/i] 256 MB RAM. The hard drive is > something like one or two gigabytes and is supposed to have a BSD > installed with the password set to something generic like "password". > This was going to be the new Applefritter server but I got fet up with > trying to get a terminal to work with it. Looks similar to the two > towers in wuerzburg.de/system/pix/wrzx1415.gif>. > > DEC 3000 something-or-other > This is pretty junky but might have some good parts. Free with the DEC > 3000 800. Looks similar to . > > Altos 3086 > This was made into a CAD system by Slice. This is a pretty cool looking > setup, has a big drawing tablet, and a huge stack of manuals. > Information on the Altos: . > This also comes with a generic PC or a terminal, or something along the > lines of that. If you need more details on any of these systems, let me know. > > Apple Macintosh LC 580 > Working and includes ethernet card. I have a couple of these. > > > Things I'm looking for: > Apple and Mac clones > Neat Apple stuff > Amiga 1000 keyboard > Whatever I need to get my Altos running (the catch is I don't know what I > need yet, though I'll definitley need software for it on 8" disks) > > Tom > > Applefritter > www.applefritter.com From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun May 19 19:06:33 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: Largish computers for sale in PA References: <20020519234643.23908@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <00be01c1ff92$344db320$a5469280@y5f3q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Owad" To: "Classic Computer" Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 07:46 PM Subject: Largish computers for sale in PA > I'm a bit unclear on how this new list setup is supposed to work, so my > apologies if I've sent this to the wrong list or in the wrong manner. D'oh. I'm not sure how this is supposed to work, should I spam everyone with my reply? Sorry! Bob From at258 at osfn.org Sun May 19 19:08:59 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: iureykj In-Reply-To: <8i9ihzBdbn58EwUb@joules.org> Message-ID: I checked our new DEC 3000 and found it is a 600. Also, we have a large Microvax cabinet with what appears to be an HP C1710 optical drive in it. I think it may be factory, but does anyone know anything about this peripheral? M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From pat at purdueriots.com Sun May 19 20:56:49 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: VMS help Message-ID: I'm trying to mount a disk on vms and getting an error that I don't understand. I'm attempting to mount a disk (a RZ56 on DKA100:), and get the result %MOUNT-F-ILLOPT, qualifier(s) not appropriate to this device to both of my attempts to mount it: MOUNT /OVER=ID DKA100: MOUNT /FOREIGN DKA100: The drive shows up in a SHOW DEV /FULL DKA100: Disk BERNAL$DKA100:, device type RZ56, is online, file-oriented device, shareable, error logging is enabled. Error count 0 Operations completed 3023 Owner process "" Owner UIC [0,0] Owner process ID 00000000 Dev Prot S:RWED,O:WRED,G:WRED,W:RWED Reference count 0 Default buffer size 512 Total blocks 1299174 Sectors per track 54 Total cylinders 1604 Tracks per cylinder 15 The system came from someone else, and was in a vaxcluster (it's not anymore - I disabled joining a cluster in the boot args for VMS. I've checked in they SYSTEM account's LOGIN.COM file and didn't see any aliases setup for mount. Any ideas? -- Pat From pat at purdueriots.com Sun May 19 21:11:40 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: VMS help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well, I seem to have it figured out. Apparently, the 'MOUNT' was assigned to be 'MOUNT/BLOCKSIZE=32256'. Reassigning it to just be 'MOUNT' fixed the problem. -- Pat On Sun, 19 May 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > I'm trying to mount a disk on vms and getting an error that I don't > understand. > > I'm attempting to mount a disk (a RZ56 on DKA100:), and get the result > > %MOUNT-F-ILLOPT, qualifier(s) not appropriate to this device > > to both of my attempts to mount it: > > MOUNT /OVER=ID DKA100: > MOUNT /FOREIGN DKA100: > > The drive shows up in a SHOW DEV /FULL DKA100: > > Disk BERNAL$DKA100:, device type RZ56, is online, file-oriented device, > shareable, error logging is enabled. > > Error count 0 Operations completed 3023 > Owner process "" Owner UIC [0,0] > Owner process ID 00000000 Dev Prot S:RWED,O:WRED,G:WRED,W:RWED > Reference count 0 Default buffer size 512 > Total blocks 1299174 Sectors per track 54 > Total cylinders 1604 Tracks per cylinder 15 > > The system came from someone else, and was in a vaxcluster (it's not > anymore - I disabled joining a cluster in the boot args for VMS. I've > checked in they SYSTEM account's LOGIN.COM file and didn't see any aliases > setup for mount. > > Any ideas? > > -- Pat > From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun May 19 21:21:43 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: AS/400 Twinax cabling In-Reply-To: <8i9ihzBdbn58EwUb@joules.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 May 2002, Peter Joules wrote: > I have finally got round to setting up my AS/400 and would appreciate > some advice. It came with one terminal and lots of twinax cable. > The terminal has a piece of twinax attached with a T piece on the end > of it. There are 2 twinax ports on the back of the AS/400. > > How do I wire the AS/400 to the terminal? Should I just use 1 port or > does it loop through the T piece and back to the other port? Should > there be some sort of terminator which I don't have? IIRC, you'll need a pair of terminators for a twinax installation. -Toth From red at bears.org Sun May 19 21:46:58 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: AS/400 Twinax cabling In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 19 May 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > How do I wire the AS/400 to the terminal? Should I just use 1 port or > > does it loop through the T piece and back to the other port? Should > > there be some sort of terminator which I don't have? > > IIRC, you'll need a pair of terminators for a twinax installation. Peter, take one piece of your twinax cable. Screw one end directly onto the first port on the back of your AS/400. Screw the other end into one side of the 'T' coming out of the back of your terminal. Set your terminal to be ID 0, and switch on your AS/400. That's it. Tothwolf: many, if not most, twinax T connectors are self-terminating. No 'T' pieces are used at the host end of things; the distribution box (built-in, in the case of small AS/400 models like it sounds Peter's is) takes care of all that. Peter: if you wait some time and nothing comes up on the display, try it again with a terminator installed on your 'T'. OTOH if your 'T' is self-terminating you won't hurt anything but putting a terminator on it. Good luck. ok r. From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Sun May 19 23:04:34 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100/90 Message-ID: I just won a MicroVAX 3100/90 auction on Ebay... The 3100/90 has BNC and AUI network ports. What do I need to use to connect it to my twisted pair hub? Some type of adapter that connects to the AUI port? What's it called and how much should I expect to pay for one? Thanks. - Bob From jrasite at eoni.com Sun May 19 23:35:10 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100/90 References: Message-ID: <3CE87CDE.7236033F@eoni.com> $5 and the postage to get it to you. ;o) Jim Bob Lafleur wrote: > > I just won a MicroVAX 3100/90 auction on Ebay... The 3100/90 has BNC and AUI > network ports. What do I need to use to connect it to my twisted pair hub? > Some type of adapter that connects to the AUI port? What's it called and how > much should I expect to pay for one? Thanks. > > - Bob From frustum at pacbell.net Mon May 20 00:51:51 2002 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: Godbout Econoram X control settings Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020519222743.0217d170@postoffice.pacbell.net> After my most recent round of Sol emulator enhancements, I'm finally getting down to adding emulation for the Helios disk system. Part of that effort is going to require me to get some binary disk images in order to make the emulator do something useful. Luckily, I happen to have a Sol stashed away along with a Helios disk system. It was kindly donated to me last summer, but it has been in storage waiting for me to have the time to rehabilitate it. I bought a used varactor and ramped up the power on the Sol itself. No caps blew, and it is now working just fine. At least, it plays TARG OK. I've also replaced the key pads and it is now much a happier than it was. I haven't tried messing with the helios system yet as it is going to require a lot more work (dusting it out, cleaning things, sanity checking it, praying like hell it doesn't need calibration after 20 years of idleness). The system has two "Econoram by Godbout" boards, specifically "Econoram X". Doing some probing of memory locations, it appears that only 48KB of the available 64 KB of SRAM is enabled (each card has 64 4Kx1 SRAM chips). 0x0000 to 0xBFFF is enabled, and the rest is disabled. Of course, part of it must be disabled because 0xC000-0xCFFF is taken up by the monitor ROM, display RAM, and scratch RAM. However, the higher parts should be OK to use. The dip switches on the boards have suggestive labels, but are too terse for me to be confident what is going on. Does anybody have docs on this or similar boards, or perhaps is better at guessing what is going on than I am? I think I understand most of it, but I'm sure I don't understand all of it. First board's dip switch settings: S1: 1: WE A = on 2: WE B = on 3: WE CL = on 4: WE CH = on 5: DIS A = off 6: DIS B = off 7: DIS C = off 8: WS = off S2: 1,2,3 = A = off, off, off 4,5,6 = B = off, off, on 7,8 = C = on, off Second board's dip switch settings: S1: 1: WE A = on 2: WE B = on 3: WE CL = on 4: WE CH = on 5: DIS A = on 6: DIS B = on 7: DIS C = off 8: WS = off S2: 1,2,3 = A = on, on, on 4,5,6 = B = on, on, off 7,8 = C = off, on So it looks like the 32 KB on each board is broken up into three banks. I'm guessing banks A and B control 8 KB blocks, and bank C is a 16 KB block (since S2 has three switches for A and B but bank C has only two switches). WE A/B/C is write enable for each bank, and DIS A/B/C is read&write enable/disable for each of the three banks. Perhaps WS is to enable a wait state. Sounds good so far, so let's collect the bank settings: 0 0 0 A1 = 0- 7, enabled 0 0 1 B1 = 8-15, enabled 1 0 C1 = 32-47, enabled 1 1 1 A2 = 56-63, disabled 1 1 0 B2 = 48-55, disabled 0 1 C2 = 16-31, enabled Does this sound reasonable? At least it is consistent with my interpretation. Does anybody know for sure what WS stands for? One disturbing thing is that the I would have expected one board to implement 0-31KB, and the other board to be used to map 32-47KB. Instead, one board does 0-15 and 32-47, while the other board does 16-31. Any idea why this might be? Finally, does anybody know if this board respects phantom disable (some other resource can claim a block of addresses and the board will silently just map out that RAM location)? Thanks. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From tarsi at binhost.com Mon May 20 01:20:27 2002 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34 Settings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02052001202702.00280@simon> Anyone have a working 11/34 processor card who could email me what you have your processor options switches set to? (S1) I can't get my machine to boot, I suspect I flipped a wrong switch somewhere. Thanks, Tarsi 210 From mbg at TheWorld.com Sun May 19 21:31:05 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: look at the VAX 11/780 in action Message-ID: <200205200231.WAA2886259@shell.TheWorld.com> >For the 780 (and maybe 785) DEC did at one point >sell microprogramming tools. I guess someone might >still have this info, but if they do they're keeping quiet >about it! At one point, years ago, I acquired a set of the tools for doing WCS microprogramming. I may still have them somewhere in my collection, but I have not seen them for awhile. What I do still have is a copy of the WCS user's guide, with explanations of the microprogramming instructions and how to use the micro assembler/loader/debugger. I attempted to make a copy for another member of this list, but the copier damaged several pages (not badly, but I am gun-shy about trying it again, at least with auto-feed). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From at258 at osfn.org Mon May 20 08:00:28 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: drivel In-Reply-To: <200205180020.UAA2817794@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: I checked ours out and it is a 3000/600. On Fri, 17 May 2002, Megan wrote: > Which DEC 3000? There were several... (the bird series -- pelican, > flamingo, etc). I've used the 3000/300 (same form factor as the > DECstation 5000/25), the 3000/400 (a large desktop brick), and the > 3000/700 (a tower case). Yes, they are all Turbo-Channel based > machines. > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | > | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | > | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | > | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | > | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | > | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From edick at idcomm.com Mon May 20 08:09:34 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: Godbout Econoram X control settings References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020519222743.0217d170@postoffice.pacbell.net> Message-ID: <002301c1ffff$96c4ae60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I have some Econoram boards that use 4Kx1 SRAMs, and use them to comprise a 64K-byte memory. The devices on my boards are 2147's though the board works fine with TMS4044's and other pin-compatibles. I haven't looked at the boards of the doc's in quite a while but if you check back with me in a week or so, I may well have the data for you. If I remember, of course, I'll contact you. regards, Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Battle" To: Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 11:51 PM Subject: Godbout Econoram X control settings > After my most recent round of Sol emulator enhancements, I'm finally > getting down to adding emulation for the Helios disk system. > > Part of that effort is going to require me to get some binary disk images > in order to make the emulator do something useful. > > Luckily, I happen to have a Sol stashed away along with a Helios disk > system. It was kindly donated to me last summer, but it has been in > storage waiting for me to have the time to rehabilitate it. > > I bought a used varactor and ramped up the power on the Sol itself. No > caps blew, and it is now working just fine. At least, it plays TARG > OK. I've also replaced the key pads and it is now much a happier than it > was. I haven't tried messing with the helios system yet as it is going to > require a lot more work (dusting it out, cleaning things, sanity checking > it, praying like hell it doesn't need calibration after 20 years of idleness). > > The system has two "Econoram by Godbout" boards, specifically "Econoram > X". Doing some probing of memory locations, it appears that only 48KB of > the available 64 KB of SRAM is enabled (each card has 64 4Kx1 SRAM > chips). 0x0000 to 0xBFFF is enabled, and the rest is disabled. Of course, > part of it must be disabled because 0xC000-0xCFFF is taken up by the > monitor ROM, display RAM, and scratch RAM. However, the higher parts > should be OK to use. > > The dip switches on the boards have suggestive labels, but are too terse > for me to be confident what is going on. > > Does anybody have docs on this or similar boards, or perhaps is better at > guessing what is going on than I am? I think I understand most of it, but > I'm sure I don't understand all of it. > > First board's dip switch settings: > > S1: > 1: WE A = on > 2: WE B = on > 3: WE CL = on > 4: WE CH = on > 5: DIS A = off > 6: DIS B = off > 7: DIS C = off > 8: WS = off > > S2: > 1,2,3 = A = off, off, off > 4,5,6 = B = off, off, on > 7,8 = C = on, off > > > Second board's dip switch settings: > > S1: > 1: WE A = on > 2: WE B = on > 3: WE CL = on > 4: WE CH = on > 5: DIS A = on > 6: DIS B = on > 7: DIS C = off > 8: WS = off > > S2: > 1,2,3 = A = on, on, on > 4,5,6 = B = on, on, off > 7,8 = C = off, on > > So it looks like the 32 KB on each board is broken up into three > banks. I'm guessing banks A and B control 8 KB blocks, and bank C is a 16 > KB block (since S2 has three switches for A and B but bank C has only two > switches). WE A/B/C is write enable for each bank, and DIS A/B/C is > read&write enable/disable for each of the three banks. Perhaps WS is to > enable a wait state. > > Sounds good so far, so let's collect the bank settings: > > 0 0 0 A1 = 0- 7, enabled > 0 0 1 B1 = 8-15, enabled > 1 0 C1 = 32-47, enabled > > 1 1 1 A2 = 56-63, disabled > 1 1 0 B2 = 48-55, disabled > 0 1 C2 = 16-31, enabled > > Does this sound reasonable? At least it is consistent with my interpretation. > > Does anybody know for sure what WS stands for? > > One disturbing thing is that the I would have expected one board to > implement 0-31KB, and the other board to be used to map 32-47KB. Instead, > one board does 0-15 and 32-47, while the other board does 16-31. Any idea > why this might be? > > Finally, does anybody know if this board respects phantom disable (some > other resource can claim a block of addresses and the board will silently > just map out that RAM location)? > > Thanks. > > ----- > Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net > > From csmith at amdocs.com Mon May 20 09:14:12 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES) Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784644@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: R. D. Davis [mailto:rdd@rddavis.org] > Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Sat, May 18, 2002 at > 08:23:47PM +0100: > > and doubtless somebody will therefore reply to something in > an off-topic > > way in CCTECH. Which will then annoy the CCTECHers... > Indeed. One observation is that often, what seems like a minor Um.. guys, it's moderated. You just can't post off topic stuff to it -- period, err... "full stop." ;) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' -------------- next part -------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this message is proprietary of Amdocs, protected from disclosure, and may be privileged. The information is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s) of the message. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, use, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From csmith at amdocs.com Mon May 20 09:21:48 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: DEC machines that can't format a disk (Was: Good Trip/Score Dec Rainbow...) Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784645@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > Actually the 'bow is one of the few DEC machines that can > format its own > disks, and there was even a formatter program included with later Does this annoy anyone else? That the systems can't format their own media, I mean :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' -------------- next part -------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this message is proprietary of Amdocs, protected from disclosure, and may be privileged. The information is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s) of the message. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, use, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dtwright at uiuc.edu Mon May 20 10:28:34 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:31 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES) In-Reply-To: References: <003d01c1fde4$8e0297f0$9601a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <20020520152830.GG2424935@uiuc.edu> So what you're saying is, you want a magic "on-topic/off-topic" filter. Which basically comes down to the list being 100% moderated. Which is something people have said they don't want, and I agree... You can't have your cake and eat it too, Sellam. If you want to get rid off all the off-topic stuff, you're going to miss some on-topic stuff that gets caught in the noise no matter what method you choose. If we were using your proposal, you would be bitching because people wouldn't be 100% self-policing. Please make your choice and stop whining. I'm really sick of hearing about how the list change didn't turn out to be implemented according to your pet idea of how the list should be run. Really, this applies to everyone who keeps complaining, not just Sellam. I think Jay did a great job with the list change, and we should all give it a couple months (at least) to see how well it works before starting a new round of proposals for changing the list. Sellam Ismail said: > On Fri, 17 May 2002, Jay West wrote: > > > Here's how it is currently handled. In the scenario that Sellam puts forth, > > no - the reply from someone on cctalk to a post that originated on cctech > > will NOT go back to cctech. You can't have it both ways people - either the > > people on cctech see posts on cctalk or they don't. The people who have > > joined cctech did so specifically because they DIDN'T want to see posts on > > cctalk. As a result, I'm sure not going to force them to see posts on > > cctalk. (more below) > > The problem is that many relevant (and on-topic) replies will be missed by > those on CCTECH, thereby penalizing them for not wanting to see off-topic > crap. > > I'd always envisioned that everyone would be subscribed to CCTECH, > and then anyone who wanted to start an off-topic thread or continue a > thread that has gone off-topic could move over to CCTALK to take it up > there. THOSE folks could subscribe to both lists so that they could have > a place to blab all they wanted. > > That's what I thought this whole upgrade was about. > > > Yes, it will work, but the responsibility is the choice of the list member, > > not mine. If one wants to see posts on both, they should join both lists. > > However, keep in mind that most people won't want to join both, they will > > only want one or the other. In the end, it's the users choice. > > What's the point of CCTECH then? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon May 20 11:14:18 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES) In-Reply-To: <20020520152830.GG2424935@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 May 2002, Dan Wright wrote: > Really, this applies to everyone who keeps complaining, not just Sellam. I > think Jay did a great job with the list change, and we should all give it a > couple months (at least) to see how well it works before starting a new round > of proposals for changing the list. Thank you. There's another alternative, too. Domains are cheap, and Mailman is free. Doc From notwax at yahoo.com Mon May 20 11:22:08 2002 From: notwax at yahoo.com (Wayne Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: Is Jim Willing selling his Heros? In-Reply-To: <20020520152830.GG2424935@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <20020520162208.44381.qmail@web13007.mail.yahoo.com> Has anyone noticed the eBay listing for the "family" of Hero robots at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2024429103 A sad loss, I think, for the Computer Garage (and for future VCFs). -W __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From foo at siconic.com Mon May 20 11:34:30 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES) In-Reply-To: <20020520152830.GG2424935@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 May 2002, Dan Wright wrote: > So what you're saying is, you want a magic "on-topic/off-topic" filter. Which > basically comes down to the list being 100% moderated. Which is something > people have said they don't want, and I agree... You can't have your cake and > eat it too, Sellam. If you want to get rid off all the off-topic stuff, > you're going to miss some on-topic stuff that gets caught in the noise no > matter what method you choose. If we were using your proposal, you would be > bitching because people wouldn't be 100% self-policing. Please make your > choice and stop whining. I'm really sick of hearing about how the list change > didn't turn out to be implemented according to your pet idea of how the list > should be run. Jeez, Dan, you can't have your cake and eat it too. You're just going to have to put up with the noise on CCTALK because it's intended for such posts. If you don't want to read my whining, you should just move over to CCTECH where it's nice and quiet. > Really, this applies to everyone who keeps complaining, not just Sellam. > I think Jay did a great job with the list change, and we should all give > it a couple months (at least) to see how well it works before starting a > new round of proposals for changing the list. Well, there's no more spam (for now at least). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon May 20 11:38:41 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: Is Jim Willing selling his Heros? In-Reply-To: <20020520162208.44381.qmail@web13007.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 May 2002, Wayne Smith wrote: > Has anyone noticed the eBay listing for the "family" > of Hero robots at: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2024429103 > > A sad loss, I think, for the Computer Garage (and for > future VCFs). A matter of severing a part to save the whole I'm afraid. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From tarsi at binhost.com Mon May 20 12:13:41 2002 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: 11/23+ Settings (my bad) In-Reply-To: <02052001202702.00280@simon> References: <02052001202702.00280@simon> Message-ID: <02052012134103.00280@simon> My bad, I don't have a 11/34, I meant a 11/23+. The question stands, though. Thanks, Tarsi 210 On Monday 20 May 2002 01:20, you wrote: > Anyone have a working 11/34 processor card who could email me what you have > your processor options switches set to? (S1) I can't get my machine to > boot, I suspect I flipped a wrong switch somewhere. > > Thanks, > Tarsi > 210 From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Mon May 20 12:37:10 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: Is Jim Willing selling his Heros? In-Reply-To: <20020520162208.44381.qmail@web13007.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: He also sold a PDP-8E with a buy-it-now price that was unfortunately beyond my means. :( From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Mon May 20 12:40:32 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: Any stories of Dayton? Message-ID: I wasn't able to go. Does anyone have any tales of great classiccmp finds? Or any other stories? From pat at purdueriots.com Mon May 20 12:48:09 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: E&S PS-390 Message-ID: Well, I looked at them, and the card cages are empty :(, so I grabbed one for an endtable and a couple boxes of 'accessories' for them, including a keyboard, twiddle box, digitizer tablets, cables, and manuals. Let me know if anyone wants some of these things, I'm asking $10/ea or less if you want >1 thing (all the cables together will probably count as 'one thing'. Even if I haven't listed it, ask me and I'll see if it was included in the three boxes of crap. There's even some VAX software I got with them on 9-track open-reel tape.. -- Pat West Lafayette, IN From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon May 20 13:05:57 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: Suggestions for Raw Tape Reading Under Linux? Message-ID: <200205201805.LAA24248@clulw009.amd.com> Hi It may be that the bit rate isn't compatable with the controller you have. You might take an oscilliscope and compare the signals coming from the tapes. You may see differences. Dwight >From: "William von Hagen" > >Hi. I've been trying to read in a variety of old backup cartridge tapes >as raw data so that I can write some tools to parse them (or port the >old backup software used to write them). This seems to be the easiest >way to explore old backup data from a variety of old machines without >having to fire up the machines themselves. > >Since I'm trying to do this from a Unix (Linux) box, 'dd' was the >obvious first choice, but I don't know things like the block size at >which the tapes were originally written. Ideally, I'd just like to read >raw data from the media, period. I've tried reading the tapes using 'dd' >with a variety of block sizes, but still get zero-length input files. >The drives I'm using to read the data are capabable of the densities at >which they were written, and I understand the Unix/Linux device numbers >- you can hear that the drives are working at the correct density, but >I'm still not getting data. I even wrote a little program to just read >data directly from the raw device, but don't seem to be getting anything >there either.The drives whir and whine, but I get nada. > >Any suggestions? Any utilities you'd suggest rather than 'dd'? Many of >these are non-Unix systems, so 'tar' and 'cpio' aren't appropriate. > >Thanks! > > Bill > > From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon May 20 13:29:58 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Altair Assistance Request Message-ID: <200205201829.LAA24254@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Erik S. Klein" ---snip--- split octal stuff cut because already answered. ---snip--- > >Why would the address lights on the Altair not properly >correspond to the address switches being set? If I set the >switches at 1110111000000000, for instance, when I reset >then examine the light at A11 doesn?t come on (the lights >show 1110011000000000) even though I know that LED to be >functioning. You'll need to check to see if the address is getting driven to the bus with a meter, logic probe or 'scope. It may just be a bad LED or driver on the panel, it may be a bad switch or some other part of the cicuit. > >Why would the data lights ever show anything but on or off? >I sometimes get dim glows from the data LEDs. When the code is running, they blink faster than your eye see. They may appear dim when toggling fast. > >What data can I expect to be in the RAM on boot-up? Is this >answer different for Static vs. Dynamic RAM? You can't depend on boot up data in either. Most DRAMs will boot with alternating 00/FF data. Sometimes these are in blocks. Most statics tend to be more ramdom but sometimes look similar in patterns to the DRAM. If you don't know if there is RAM at a location, use the front panel controls to change values. If there is RAM there, it will hold the new value you wrote. > >What is the best way to execute the boot loader should I >locate it? Can I set the address switches to the proper >spot and run or do I need to code a simple program that will >?JMP? to the known address? I have a IMSAI but I suspect the sequence would be similar. STOP-RESET-EXAMINE-RUN, w/ address switches set to the boot address. If you do have a panel problem and can't get the address loaded properly, you could put a simple JMP into some RAM that you can access. Toggle in the JMP XXXX and then set the address switches to the JMP instruction and do the EXAMINE-RUN sequence. > >Much of my confusion might stem from the EPROMs themselves >since they may have been erased by time. I have a freshly >burned set on order which may help. I have EPROMs that are over 20 years old that are still holding data. The boot sequence is quite small and it is unlikely to be bad. From what you said earlier, I would suspect that the main problems may be incorrect switch settings or problems with the fron panel. Dwight From sloboyko at yahoo.com Mon May 20 13:30:13 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: Any stories of Dayton? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020520183013.42902.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Sudbrink wrote: > I wasn't able to go. Does anyone have any tales > of great classiccmp finds? Or any other stories? > I went, and I was somewhat disappointed. I didn't expect much in the way of classic computing stuff and my expectations were met (but I didn't manage to get to Marvin Johnson's booth). There wasn't much classic stuff from the 80's, much less the 70's. What there was, was a lot of garbage PC stuff that really WAS garbage. Seriously. I could garbage pick better stuff in Atlanta than these guys were trying to sell. Honest to God. You'd think they had spare parts from the Space Shuttle. There were some used test equipment vendors there; apparently, they hadn't heard of eBay (or they were hoping that their customers hadn't); trust me, you could do much better on eBay and in some cases with better guarantees. On the parts front, I scored a few things, MECI had some good deals on racks and UPS's - IF you could find a way to get them to your car. I heard grumblings from others that this was a very difficult thing to do, even if you had a wagon or cart. I would not even TRY to buy anything big unless you brought a cart and at least one friend. A battery vendor had such good prices at the show that you could make money selling on eBay (too bad these were show prices only). All in all, for my purposes, I think I would have better spent the day at MECI's warehouse! I thought the ticket price was high for what was basically a very large swap meet with a very small program, parking was really bad, and the show was surprisingly disorganized and unprofessional considering the high expense of admission (however, I've never been to one of these, so my expectations might have been unreasonable). The few "official" personnel I found didn't know anything about the site and had no maps (the only maps I found were illegibly small). There were no obvious markers, banners, etc for the outside vendor rows. I was this close to buying a few small switchers for a project, until I picked one up and water came pouring out of it (it had rained pretty hard the day before and overnight). Not worth it. Hey, but other than that, it was great! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From dan at ekoan.com Mon May 20 14:46:16 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: Any stories of Dayton? In-Reply-To: <20020520183013.42902.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020520150135.04bffa30@enigma> At 11:30 AM 5/20/02 -0700, you wrote: >--- Bill Sudbrink wrote: > > I wasn't able to go. Does anyone have any tales > > of great classiccmp finds? Or any other stories? > > > >I went, and I was somewhat disappointed. Classic computer hardware, especially the less-common stuff, was scarce this year. Granted, Dayton is mainly a radio-oriented show, but previous years had more interesting items, and more of them. > (but I didn't manage to get to Marvin Johnson's booth). I did get to Marvin's booth. He was busy with the fox-hunting (as in locating a small hidden radio transmitter, not riding a horse carrying a firearm) for much of Saturday, but I met him at the end of the day. Very friendly and courteous fellow. He had some Casio bubble memory modules for sale, but not much else that I saw. While looking for old microprocessors I ran into a gentleman who may have a lead on RCA 1802 processors, if anyone is still looking for them. E-mail me off list if you're interested. >You'd think they had spare parts from the >Space Shuttle. There was a vendor selling old Space Shuttle parts. I recall seeing several NASA transit cases, one of which had a flight data recorder. I think he was asking $150 for it. No idea if anyone ever bought it. >There were some used test equipment vendors there; >apparently, they hadn't heard of eBay (or they were >hoping that their customers hadn't); trust me, you >could do much better on eBay and in some cases with >better guarantees. Yes, in most cases test equipment prices (and prices in general) were too high. One guy even had a print-out of a completed eBay auction to justify his asking price. >The few "official" >personnel I found didn't know anything about the site >and had no maps (the only maps I found were illegibly >small). The "official" staff are all volunteers, and I know there was some turnover from last year above and beyond the usual changes. >There were no obvious markers, banners, etc for the outside >vendor rows. It's always been that way. Not to defend the operation, but Dayton seems to be one of those places that you're just expected to figure out. I've never seen a good map of Hara Arena, and the identifying numbers on the outside slots have long since faded away. The Hamvention staff will tell you that the Hara Arena operators refuse to spend any money to fix the place up. Don't even ask about the horrible condition of the public bathrooms... >Hey, but other than that, it was great! Weather: Overcast Friday and finally started rain in the middle of the afternoon. Saturday was cold and mostly overcast, with the outside vendors somewhat damp. Sunday was sunny but still chilly in the morning. Bought: HP 9825A with a 9866 printer and 9872 plotter, along with manuals. HP 9114A drive HP-IL interface for HP-41 calculator Two Tandy 102 and one Tandy 100 laptops NEC PC-8300 laptop DEC SA-1100 StrongARM development system ("Brutus") with LCD display, power supply, software and manuals Several Heathkit nixie tube counters Small Systems Engineering Hardbox for Commodore iSBC Applications Manual Many, many issues of '60s and 70's Radio-Electronics and Popular Electronics Circuit board with a socketed 1802 microprocessor "Electronic Calculators" book from 1974 by president of MITS Other electronics and computer books from the '60s and '70s The most expensive item was the StrongARM development system, for which I paid $55. Everything else was well under that. I also paid real money for an Optoelectronics Digital Scout and interface cables from the Opto booth inside the Arena, but that doesn't meet the 10-year rule. Scrounged: Apple /// monitor "Print-it" screen print card and button for Apple // series (in the original box) Apple printer cables (new in package), 8 pin mini DIN to DB25 male and female Epson MX-80 ribbons (new in package) Various pieces of satellite receiver equipment Mathcad software and manuals for Windows 3.X Various circuit boards for parts Random coax with video connectors These were items left as trash at the end of the show. Cheers, Dan From at258 at osfn.org Mon May 20 15:18:36 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: Any stories of Dayton? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020520150135.04bffa30@enigma> Message-ID: The MIT fleamarket was about the same. Lots of dreck and instruments. There was a derelict VAX 4000/400 and a $90 Monroe calculator. Seemed to be fewer vendors, too. On Mon, 20 May 2002, Dan Veeneman wrote: > At 11:30 AM 5/20/02 -0700, you wrote: > >--- Bill Sudbrink wrote: > > > I wasn't able to go. Does anyone have any tales > > > of great classiccmp finds? Or any other stories? > > > > > > >I went, and I was somewhat disappointed. > > Classic computer hardware, especially the less-common stuff, > was scarce this year. Granted, Dayton is mainly a radio-oriented > show, but previous years had more interesting items, and more > of them. > > > (but I didn't manage to get to Marvin Johnson's booth). > > I did get to Marvin's booth. He was busy with the fox-hunting > (as in locating a small hidden radio transmitter, not riding a horse > carrying a firearm) for much of Saturday, but I met him at the end > of the day. Very friendly and courteous fellow. He had some > Casio bubble memory modules for sale, but not much else that > I saw. > > While looking for old microprocessors I ran into a gentleman who > may have a lead on RCA 1802 processors, if anyone is still > looking for them. E-mail me off list if you're interested. > > >You'd think they had spare parts from the > >Space Shuttle. > > There was a vendor selling old Space Shuttle parts. I recall > seeing several NASA transit cases, one of which had a > flight data recorder. I think he was asking $150 for it. No idea > if anyone ever bought it. > > >There were some used test equipment vendors there; > >apparently, they hadn't heard of eBay (or they were > >hoping that their customers hadn't); trust me, you > >could do much better on eBay and in some cases with > >better guarantees. > > Yes, in most cases test equipment prices (and prices in > general) were too high. One guy even had a print-out of > a completed eBay auction to justify his asking price. > > >The few "official" > >personnel I found didn't know anything about the site > >and had no maps (the only maps I found were illegibly > >small). > > The "official" staff are all volunteers, and I know there was > some turnover from last year above and beyond the usual > changes. > > >There were no obvious markers, banners, etc for the outside > >vendor rows. > > It's always been that way. Not to defend the operation, but > Dayton seems to be one of those places that you're just > expected to figure out. I've never seen a good map of Hara > Arena, and the identifying numbers on the outside slots > have long since faded away. The Hamvention staff will tell > you that the Hara Arena operators refuse to spend any money > to fix the place up. Don't even ask about the horrible condition > of the public bathrooms... > > >Hey, but other than that, it was great! > > Weather: > Overcast Friday and finally started rain in the middle of the afternoon. > Saturday was cold and mostly overcast, with the outside vendors > somewhat damp. > Sunday was sunny but still chilly in the morning. > > Bought: > HP 9825A with a 9866 printer and 9872 plotter, along with manuals. > HP 9114A drive > HP-IL interface for HP-41 calculator > Two Tandy 102 and one Tandy 100 laptops > NEC PC-8300 laptop > DEC SA-1100 StrongARM development system ("Brutus") with > LCD display, power supply, software and manuals > Several Heathkit nixie tube counters > Small Systems Engineering Hardbox for Commodore > iSBC Applications Manual > Many, many issues of '60s and 70's Radio-Electronics and Popular Electronics > Circuit board with a socketed 1802 microprocessor > "Electronic Calculators" book from 1974 by president of MITS > Other electronics and computer books from the '60s and '70s > > The most expensive item was the StrongARM development system, for which > I paid $55. Everything else was well under that. > > I also paid real money for an Optoelectronics Digital Scout and interface > cables > from the Opto booth inside the Arena, but that doesn't meet the 10-year rule. > > Scrounged: > Apple /// monitor > "Print-it" screen print card and button for Apple // series (in the > original box) > Apple printer cables (new in package), 8 pin mini DIN to DB25 male and > female > Epson MX-80 ribbons (new in package) > Various pieces of satellite receiver equipment > Mathcad software and manuals for Windows 3.X > Various circuit boards for parts > Random coax with video connectors > > These were items left as trash at the end of the show. > > > Cheers, > > Dan > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From zmerch at 30below.com Mon May 20 15:38:31 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: Any stories of Dayton? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020520150135.04bffa30@enigma> References: <20020520183013.42902.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020520163831.0111f910@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Dan Veeneman may have mentioned these words: >At 11:30 AM 5/20/02 -0700, Loboyko Steve wrote: >>I went, and I was somewhat disappointed. [snip] >Classic computer hardware, especially the less-common stuff, >was scarce this year. [snip] >Bought: [snippage of purchased {purloned??? ;-) } stuff...] So what you're trying to say is, you got there first, and bought everything CC-ish out??? ;-) Mebbe next year I'll get there... tho from the reports, dunno if it's worth the 7~ish hours to get there... Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon May 20 15:44:45 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: computer sales -- now only on e-bay??? Message-ID: <3CE9603D.9379E1CF@jetnet.ab.ca> Is the classic computer sources finally drying up to become E-bay collector items only so most people can't see a real machine anymore? -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From sloboyko at yahoo.com Mon May 20 16:10:03 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: Any stories of Dayton? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020520150135.04bffa30@enigma> Message-ID: <20020520211003.44969.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com> If the prices were reasonable, I'd say that you had a VERY good trip just for the items below alone. That calculator book is a gem, I have it and bought it new. --- Dan Veeneman wrote: > HP 9825A with a 9866 printer and 9872 plotter, > along with manuals. > HP 9114A drive > "Electronic Calculators" book from 1974 by > president of MITS __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From edick at idcomm.com Mon May 20 16:33:59 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: computer sales -- now only on e-bay??? References: <3CE9603D.9379E1CF@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <001801c20046$0db6f500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well ... people who REALLY want to see an old-time (REAL) machine can always go to a local junk yard and see the rusting hulks in the yard. They hang around a long time because it's so unprofitable to disassemble the racks, since there are mixes of plastics, aluminum, and steel, which means labor's required to make 'em useful. They're not terribly exciting to watch, since they don't show much evidence of the stuff going on inside. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Franchuk" To: Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 2:44 PM Subject: computer sales -- now only on e-bay??? > Is the classic computer sources finally drying up to become E-bay > collector items only so most people can't see a real machine anymore? > -- > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html > > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon May 20 16:37:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: computer sales -- now only on e-bay??? References: <3CE9603D.9379E1CF@jetnet.ab.ca> <001801c20046$0db6f500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3CE96C7C.D6C46230@jetnet.ab.ca> Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Well ... people who REALLY want to see an old-time (REAL) machine can always > go to a local junk yard and see the rusting hulks in the yard. They hang > around a long time because it's so unprofitable to disassemble the racks, > since there are mixes of plastics, aluminum, and steel, which means labor's > required to make 'em useful. They're not terribly exciting to watch, since > they don't show much evidence of the stuff going on inside. > > Dick Hey I live in a small town -- that sounds more exciting than most days -- Lets all watch things rust in the dump. :) Out here any old stuff is crushed under a mound of landfill. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 20 17:17:13 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100/90 In-Reply-To: from "Bob Lafleur" at May 20, 2 00:04:34 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 304 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020520/02700ed2/attachment.ksh From mythtech at mac.com Mon May 20 17:21:09 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: Amiga 4000 with Toaster Message-ID: What is a fair price to offer for an Amiga 4000 with a Toaster installed? I really don't know Amiga's at all except for what I used of them in the studio as Toasters, but I have always wanted a Video Toaster setup of my own. I found someone offering two of them for sale/trade, but I have no idea what they are worth. Or, does anyone here have one they want to give me for cost of shipping? (I am pretty poor, so I have a feeling I will find they are worth more than I can afford) -chris From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 20 17:18:26 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100/90 In-Reply-To: from "Bob Lafleur" at May 20, 2 00:04:34 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 982 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020520/10ed765a/attachment.ksh From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon May 20 17:32:25 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: Amiga 4000 with Toaster References: Message-ID: <3CE97979.860269AD@ccp.com> Chris wrote: > > What is a fair price to offer for an Amiga 4000 with a Toaster installed? > > I really don't know Amiga's at all except for what I used of them in the > studio as Toasters, but I have always wanted a Video Toaster setup of my > own. > > I found someone offering two of them for sale/trade, but I have no idea > what they are worth. > > Or, does anyone here have one they want to give me for cost of shipping? > (I am pretty poor, so I have a feeling I will find they are worth more > than I can afford) > > -chris > I've seen some for as little as $400 and as high as a couple grand. Low end for the stock 4k box: 68040@25mHz, 120 Meg IDE drive, 16meg fast/2 Meg chip RAM. The price goes up if there is an aftermarket accellerator installed, and bigger HD. shoot me a list of goodies there off-list and I'll give you a better price. Include everything, monitor, etc. I have available the Flyer cards . . . they turn the Toaster into a respectable non-linear editor, but that runs into big bucks, for the card, and the dedicated SCSI-2 drives for audio and video file storage. Also keep in mind that you need time stable sources for the video inputs. If you want to use VHS VCR's you'll be disappointed, and you'll need a couple full fram TBC's as well. As a video professional, I'd think twice before getting a Toaster for hobby video . . . the new digital cameras and digital editing is far easier to implement. Gary Hildebrand ST. Joseph, MO From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 20 17:37:24 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: DEC machines that can't format a disk (Was: Good Trip/Score Dec In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784645@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> from "Christopher Smith" at May 20, 2 09:21:48 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 698 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020520/39a75c99/attachment.ksh From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon May 20 17:41:43 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: Nice OpenVMS starter system on eBay Message-ID: <200205202241.g4KMfhb14081@shell1.aracnet.com> Normally I wouldn't do post here about an auction I spotted on eBay, however, this would make a really killer starter system for someone wanting to try out OpenVMS. I've no idea who the seller is. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2025206674 It's an AlphaStation 200 4/233 with 256MB RAM, a 2GB & 9GB HD, and 24-Bit graphics card, as well as the OpenVMS 7.1-2 distro, and the December 2000 layered products and doc library CD's. BTW, it's been my experience that one of these systems with 256MB RAM rocks (I've got one setup almost like this one). Zane From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 20 17:40:55 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: E&S PS-390 In-Reply-To: from "Pat Finnegan" at May 20, 2 12:48:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 570 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020520/2a15ce05/attachment.ksh From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Mon May 20 17:57:32 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] RE: scanners & circuit boards.. Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E44@BUSH02> >> You can't scratch glass with metal. What you can do >> is leave a thin trace of metal on the glass. Jewelers >> rouge will easily remove this is nothing else will. This is not true. Try running your windshield wipers without the rubber. All generalisations have exeptions, however it's usually the road grit and oxides on the end of the blades that do the scratching. And lastly, the quartz windows of the EPROMs are harder than glass. As can be ceramic chip packages and the PCB itself (glass fiber laminate). > I think he was talking about the glass on the scanner. > I was. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Mon May 20 18:00:54 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E45@BUSH02> Since we are talking about scratched glass, do you have any ideas on how to remove scratches from the face of a CRT? I use Jewelers rouge I got from a Jeweler friend many years ago. It works well on surface scratches such as those you get from laying the monitor on the tube face. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From edick at idcomm.com Mon May 20 18:37:35 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: computer sales -- now only on e-bay??? References: <3CE9603D.9379E1CF@jetnet.ab.ca> <001801c20046$0db6f500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3CE96C7C.D6C46230@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <001501c20057$522f9500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Really? The close-in junkyards in the Denver area seem to get rid of their stuff, but I've heard about a really big junkyard, purportedly bigger than the nearby town where its owner gets his mail, that's the place where the thousands of DEC machines went in the late '80's when they became uninteresting to their owners. You'd think I'd have paid it a visit by now, but I really have never wanted DEC stuff. Besides, they have rattlesnakes out there ... which is why there aren't many rats. Perhaps they should sell tickest ... so folks from the local farm communities could come out and watch the racks rust. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Franchuk" To: Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 3:37 PM Subject: Re: computer sales -- now only on e-bay??? > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > Well ... people who REALLY want to see an old-time (REAL) machine can always > > go to a local junk yard and see the rusting hulks in the yard. They hang > > around a long time because it's so unprofitable to disassemble the racks, > > since there are mixes of plastics, aluminum, and steel, which means labor's > > required to make 'em useful. They're not terribly exciting to watch, since > > they don't show much evidence of the stuff going on inside. > > > > Dick > > Hey, I live in a small town -- that sounds more exciting than most days > -- > Lets all watch things rust in the dump. :) > Out here any old stuff is crushed under a mound of landfill. > > > -- > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 20 18:19:37 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... In-Reply-To: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E45@BUSH02> from "Davison, Lee" at May 21, 2 00:00:54 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 673 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020521/428a2060/attachment.ksh From mythtech at mac.com Mon May 20 18:57:37 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: Amiga 4000 with Toaster Message-ID: >Also keep in mind that you need time stable sources for the video >inputs. If you want to use VHS VCR's you'll be disappointed, and you'll >need a couple full fram TBC's as well. As a video professional, I'd >think twice before getting a Toaster for hobby video . . . the new >digital cameras and digital editing is far easier to implement. The draw backs aren't really going to matter after all... your initial price of $400 puts one out of my price range. I can't very well even justify it for using it for editing when I have a perfectly good firewire setup with my DV Cam and iMac that so far is doing everything I need. I would like a 2nd video deck, so I would rather put the money towards a 2nd camera. (that is why I stopped hunting for a good deal on an SVHS editing system... as much as I would love to have one some day, they are still too expensive for me to justify when I can do everything with my camera and iMac) I was kind of hoping by some miracle, the 4000 with Toaster would be almost worthless, and I could have gotten away with offering a very low price. Alas, it appears to be worth some money like I figured it was. Thanks for the info. -chris From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Mon May 20 19:02:57 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E46@BUSH02> Any particular grade of rouge? I've got a couple of lenses with minor scratches that would probably benefit from gentle polishing. But the jeweller's catalogue I've just looked in (H.S. Walsh) lists about a dozen polishing compounds, none specifically for glass. Or doesn't it matter too much? Jeweller's rouge is amongst them (and is not too expensive). I don't really know, what I have is in an unmarked tin that was given to me as being 'the stuff I needed' to polish out some scratches on an oscilloscope CRT face. I've used it since to polish out scratches on other glass items. It's probably best to ask a friendly jeweller for advice before you buy. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon May 20 19:23:34 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... References: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E46@BUSH02> Message-ID: <3CE99386.52E2A3A1@jetnet.ab.ca> "Davison, Lee" wrote: > > Any particular grade of rouge? I've got a couple of lenses > with minor scratches that would probably benefit from > gentle polishing. But the jeweller's catalogue I've just looked > in (H.S. Walsh) lists about a dozen polishing compounds, > none specifically for glass. Or doesn't it matter too much? > Jeweller's rouge is amongst them (and is not too expensive). > > I don't really know, what I have is in an unmarked tin that > was given to me as being 'the stuff I needed' to polish out > some scratches on an oscilloscope CRT face. I've used > it since to polish out scratches on other glass items. It's > probably best to ask a friendly jeweller for advice before > you buy. Try checking on the web for telescope construction for grinding and polishing glass. Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From rdd at rddavis.org Mon May 20 20:06:18 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: computer sales -- now only on e-bay??? In-Reply-To: <3CE9603D.9379E1CF@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <3CE9603D.9379E1CF@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20020521010618.GA8884@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Ben Franchuk, from writings of Mon, May 20, 2002 at 02:44:45PM -0600: > Is the classic computer sources finally drying up to become E-bay > collector items only so most people can't see a real machine anymore? It seems that way. I remember a time when one could find a wide variety of classic computers advertised on Usenet newsgroups, for sale to the first person to make a reasonable, or not so reasonable, offer or pay the advertised price. Some of it was free plus shipping. I've bought much equipment that way, with very few problems. Alas those days appear to be over, and, now, it appears that many people would rather try to conduct their own private auctions or else they post ads mentioning that they're selling the equipment on e-bay; we see this happening on classiccmp as well. One would think that, like the PDP-11s etc. were several years ago, the AS/400, Aviion, VAX 4000 and Alpha systems, etc. would now be available as surplus from businesses and universities, as in "It's free (or some very low price) if you'll take it away for us!," or "You actually want that? Sure, take it away. Thanks for taking it off our hands!" Something has definitely gone wrong, as this isn't the case. Perhaps a number of things: the emphasis on recycling, too many collectors seeking collectors' items as opposed to hackish toys, sales of scrap to china, etc. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon May 20 20:08:23 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 21 May 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > Any particular grade of rouge? I've got a couple of lenses with minor > scratches that would probably benefit from gentle polishing. But the > jeweler's catalogue I've just looked in (H.S. Walsh) lists about a dozen > polishing compounds, none specifically for glass. Or doesn't it matter > too much? Jeweler's rouge is amongst them (and is not too expensive). That'll depend on the depth of the scratch and how much elbow-grease you're willing to invest. :) Generally, I'd treat it as a lapidary repair, because it is. First, trying to treat a deep mar with a finish-grade abrasive is an exercise in futility. Choose the grade of abrasive _just_ finer - maybe 2 grades - than the blemish itself. Remove the scratch, leaving a lot of finer scratches. Go to the next finer grade - or skip one - of abrasive and polish out the aforementioned finer scratches. Repeat. Be careful to gradually expand your coverage. A very smooth, but very sharply graduated, indentation in the surface will be as distracting as the original blemish. Spread the low spot out. Use abrasives suited to the material. For example, Red Rouge is a metal polish. It _will_ eventually polish glass, but there are better, faster abrasives. Chromium Oxide comes to mind. Diamond grits are not as expensive as you'd expect, and your local custom jewelry shop might sell you the little dab you need. Most any good lapidary catalogue will have charts of the grades and applications of their polishing compounds. Doc From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Mon May 20 20:09:25 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: DEC machines that can't format a disk (Was: Good Trip/Score Dec References: Message-ID: <3CE99E45.F274B606@compsys.to> >Tony Duell wrote: > > Does this annoy anyone else? That the systems can't format their > > own media, I mean :) > Not when there are _good_ techncial reasons for it (like the fact that > the RL01 can't format a blank pack becuase to make a positioner that > could step accurately enough without reading servo bursts from the > platter would be rediculously expensive). Jerome Fine replies: Note that the RK05 media could be formatted by the PDP-11 operating systems. One of the "tests" I always used under RT-11 was to make a duplicate of a pack and then run BINCOM. If there were no errors with BINCOM, then the original media was OK. BUT, after constant use for a month or two, I found that the system media (SY:) on the production system would start to lose its format - for whatever reason that would happen. Whoever wrote BINCOM (as opposed to DUP) left out all the extra code to read a "difficult" block the extra number of times needed if it could be read. Thus, "COPY/DEVICE RK0: RK1:" would work (using DUP), but not "DIFF/BIN/DEVICE RK0: RK1:" (using BINCOM). Thus it was possible to recover "difficult" blocks before they were gone, FORMAT the original RK0: media to whatever standard was required and copy the duplicate data back to RK0: and continue. Thus, I have a question to ask. What was the difference between the RK05 that can be formatted and the RL01/RL02 which can't - other than the method that DEC chose to lay out the servo tracks? How much more would it have cost to allow the RL01/RL02 drives the ability to format in the field just like the RK05? And could the problem have been more because of the fact that the RL01/RL02 became a "DEC owned" product just like the attempt by DEC to pretend that all RX01/RX02/RX50 floppy media should be purchased from DEC as well? > But when it's done for marketing reasons (so you have to buy the > manufacturer's expensive pre-formatted floppies, as was the case with the > RX01, etc) then yes, of course it annoys me. The format of the RX01 was identical to the IBM SSSD format. Thus, other than the fact that DEC "forgot" to mention that fact and that DEC also "forgot" to include the necessary few bits of hardware to allow the drive to format media off-line (3rd party manufactures of look-alike RX01 drives), many other manufactures made floppies that were pre-formatted. However, I do seem to remember that DEC almost always seemed to charge the highest price for "genuine pre-formatted" RX01 media. From my point of view, it seemed to say a lot about a company that would charge up to 10 times the cost of non-formatted media when most other companies charged only a small (about 10%) premium. The RX02 media was identical to the RX01 media. Without going into all the details, the RX02 drive could flip the density on the media, BUT it had to be formatted FIRST. On the other hand, some media did develop "difficult" blocks. In that case, the FORMAT command in RT-11 could be used and the "difficult" blocks were usually, but not always, eliminated. Again, the DEC RX02 drive and controller could not FORMAT an RX02 from scratch, but almost every 3rd party manufacturer made a controller/drive unit which could. The RX50 media was almost identical - except that a few DEC systems could format RX50 media. While DEC charged to usual (1000%) premium for RX50 formatted media, a PC could actually do the job with a 5 1/4" HD drive. The RX33 media could be formatted in the field. They were identical to the format of the 1.2 MByte HD PC floppies - so DEC finally seemed to decide that the RQDX3 should be able to format the media - when it was no longer needed - 1.2 MByte HD PC floppies were in great supply and DEC would have looked .... charging its usual 1000% markup for the product. Just in case you forgot, what might the extra cost of an RL01/RL02 drive have been that could do the FORMAT command? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon May 20 20:10:33 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] RE: scanners & circuit boards.. Message-ID: <200205210110.SAA24379@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Davison, Lee" > > > >> You can't scratch glass with metal. What you can do > >> is leave a thin trace of metal on the glass. Jewelers > >> rouge will easily remove this is nothing else will. > > This is not true. Try running your windshield wipers > without the rubber. > >All generalisations have exeptions, however it's usually the road >grit and oxides on the end of the blades that do the scratching. True but where are you going to find the really clean metal to rub on the glass? Most surfaces of metals have oxides and other material on them. I was making the point that under real world conditions, one can scratch glass with metal objects. One should not assume it is safe to rub metals on glass. If the pressure is high enough, most hardened metals can scribe glass, even though the glass is harder. This is more related to brittleness. > > And lastly, the quartz windows of the EPROMs > are harder than glass. > >As can be ceramic chip packages and the PCB itself (glass >fiber laminate). > >> I think he was talking about the glass on the scanner. >> >I was. I meant this to be in relation to the UV passing. > >Lee. > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >---- >This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The >information contained in this email may contain information which is >confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender >and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. > > If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please >delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International >IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. > >________________________________________________________________________ >This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The >service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive >anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: >http://www.star.net.uk >________________________________________________________________________ > From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon May 20 20:14:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... Message-ID: <200205210114.SAA24384@clulw009.amd.com> >> >> >> Since we are talking about scratched glass, do you >> have any ideas on how to remove scratches from the >> face of a CRT? >> >> I use Jewelers rouge I got from a Jeweler friend many >> years ago. It works well on surface scratches such >> as those you get from laying the monitor on the tube >> face. > >Any particular grade of rouge? I've got a couple of lenses with minor >scratches that would probably benefit from gentle polishing. But the >jeweler's catalogue I've just looked in (H.S. Walsh) lists about a dozen >polishing compounds, none specifically for glass. Or doesn't it matter >too much? Jeweler's rouge is amongst them (and is not too expensive). > >-tony > Hi Tony You can order the right stuff for optical work from places like Newport Glass and William-Bell. You can also use cerium oxide ( what I prefer to use ). It is a liitle less messy than rouge and slightly faster. Dwight From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon May 20 20:24:41 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: computer sales -- now only on e-bay??? In-Reply-To: <20020521010618.GA8884@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 May 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > One would think that, like the PDP-11s etc. were several years ago, > the AS/400, Aviion, VAX 4000 and Alpha systems, etc. would now be > available as surplus from businesses and universities, as in "It's > free (or some very low price) if you'll take it away for us!," or "You > actually want that? Sure, take it away. Thanks for taking it off our > hands!" Something has definitely gone wrong, as this isn't the case. > Perhaps a number of things: the emphasis on recycling, too many > collectors seeking collectors' items as opposed to hackish toys, sales > of scrap to china, etc. All of the above, but it ain't all that bad. I'm playing this week with an Andataco FWD gigaRAID (full of 9G drives) and an HP C160 to plug it into. I got it by answering a post to the Austin LUG by the company that was scrapping them. They gave away 2 gRAIDs, 17 C160s and a bunch of HP peripherals, and sold all the Intel crap. There are a couple of CCmp members who tend to eBay their stuff, but it seems to me that most offer it here first. Notable exceptions are very high-end stuff, or grave financial distress. I completely agree with using eBay in both situations. I do have a lot of equipment that's running because list members have privately responded to my questions with offers of parts, free or very cheap. I've also noticed tacit cooperation concerning eBay auctions. If I recognise a bid as made by a list member, I don't bid against them, and that seems to be the norm. I see eBay as a mixed curse. If I buy there, I'll pay too much. But I can usually buy there _now_, no matter how arcane the part. Sometimes that's a good thing. If I sell there, I usually get a better price , but I don't get the warm & fuzzies that come from helping community members. Doc From rmurphy at itm-inst.com Mon May 20 20:37:40 2002 From: rmurphy at itm-inst.com (Rick Murphy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:32 2005 Subject: DEC machines that can't format a disk (Was: Good Trip/Score Dec In-Reply-To: <3CE99E45.F274B606@compsys.to> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020520213042.00a6c6c0@mail.itm-inst.com> At 09:09 PM 5/20/02 -0400, Jerome H. Fine wrote: >Just in case you forgot, what might the extra cost of an RL01/RL02 >drive have been that could do the FORMAT command? Well, one problem with the RL01/RL02 was that the drive did not have the ability to seek to an absolute track. To get to a particular track, the controller/disk driver first had to read the servo information to figure out what track the drive was on, then seek the heads in the proper direction and offset to get to the target track. THEN the driver had to read another sector header to make sure the drive actually got there. (I once worked an RT11 driver bug that caused a system hang; this was caused by the heads wandering off track; the driver, "knowing" that the heads were already on the right track, didn't re-issue a seek.) Given the simplicity of the drive hardware - it *had* to have a servo track to position itself - there's no surprise it couldn't low-level format. Sort of like most modern disk drives - but you can probably buy a 50 GB IDE drive today for the cost of one RL01 cartridge back then :-( -Rick From lemay at cs.umn.edu Mon May 20 21:01:43 2002 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: DEC machines that can't format a disk (Was: Good Trip/Score Dec In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020520213042.00a6c6c0@mail.itm-inst.com> Message-ID: <200205210201.VAA11946@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > Given the simplicity of the drive hardware - it *had* to have a servo track > to position itself - there's no surprise it couldn't low-level format. Sort > of like most modern disk drives - but you can probably buy a 50 GB IDE > drive today for the cost of one RL01 cartridge back then :-( > Umm, you do know that 120Gb IDE hard drives are $120 or less. The trick is figuring a way to USE a 120Gb drive in place of a RL02... -Lawrence LeMay From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon May 20 21:01:56 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: Any stories of Dayton? References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020520150135.04bffa30@enigma> <20020520183013.42902.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.16.19980101023615.4aaf06e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3CE9AA94.C3F4D82B@jetnet.ab.ca> Joe wrote: > I keep telling you guys that you MUST get there early!!!!! If you wait till opening time to get there then you won't find much, If you're one of those that waits to after lunch to show up then you're wasting your time! If you really want to find stuff, Register as a dealer and go in when they open for dealer setup. I FREQUENTLY leave home at 3AM to be near the front of the dealer line waiting to get in. Get back in line like the rest of us people! Getting early is one thing, being that sneaky is another. BTW how long did you wait to watch Star Wars? PS. the date on the email was 01/01/1998 -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From sloboyko at yahoo.com Mon May 20 21:06:23 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: computer sales -- now only on e-bay??? In-Reply-To: <20020521010618.GA8884@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20020521020623.11413.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com> Doc wrote: > I've also noticed tacit cooperation concerning eBay >auctions. If I >recognise a bid as made by a list member, I don't bid >against them, and >that seems to be the norm. Or, you soon realize that you shouldn't bother bidding against AEK. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon May 20 21:04:27 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: DEC machines that can't format a disk (Was: Good Trip/Score Dec References: <200205210201.VAA11946@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3CE9AB2B.8FAF86BA@jetnet.ab.ca> Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > > > Given the simplicity of the drive hardware - it *had* to have a servo track > > to position itself - there's no surprise it couldn't low-level format. Sort > > of like most modern disk drives - but you can probably buy a 50 GB IDE > > drive today for the cost of one RL01 cartridge back then :-( > > > > Umm, you do know that 120Gb IDE hard drives are $120 or less. The trick is > figuring a way to USE a 120Gb drive in place of a RL02... > > -Lawrence LeMay Now that DEC is gone, is there anybody who can re-format the platters? -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon May 20 21:17:49 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: Any stories of Dayton? References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020520150135.04bffa30@enigma> <20020520183013.42902.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.16.19980101023615.4aaf06e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3CE9AA94.C3F4D82B@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3CE9AE4D.5844AFA8@ccp.com> Ben Franchuk wrote: > > Joe wrote: > > > I keep telling you guys that you MUST get there early!!!!! If you wait till opening time to get there then you won't find much, If you're one of those that waits to after lunch to show up then you're wasting your time! If you really want to find stuff, Register as a dealer and go in when they open for dealer setup. I FREQUENTLY leave home at 3AM to be near the front of the dealer line waiting to get in. I agree 199%. Best deals are found early, or late. Early for the more common stuff, and late is where you find someone who just DOESN'T want to haul it back home. In between is just time to kill. > > Get back in line like the rest of us people! Getting early is one thing, > being that sneaky is another. > BTW how long did you wait to watch Star Wars? > PS. the date on the email was 01/01/1998 > -- > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html Gary Hildebrand WA7KKP, experienced hamfester From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon May 20 22:25:24 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: Any stories of Dayton? In-Reply-To: <3CE9AA94.C3F4D82B@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020520150135.04bffa30@enigma> <20020520183013.42902.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.16.19980101023615.4aaf06e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020520222524.45ef5822@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:01 PM 5/20/02 -0600, you wrote: >Joe wrote: > >> I keep telling you guys that you MUST get there early!!!!! If you wait till opening time to get there then you won't find much, If you're one of those that waits to after lunch to show up then you're wasting your time! If you really want to find stuff, Register as a dealer and go in when they open for dealer setup. I FREQUENTLY leave home at 3AM to be near the front of the dealer line waiting to get in. > >Get back in line like the rest of us people! Getting early is one thing, >being that sneaky is another. Oh I thought it was just underehanded! Thanks for clearing that up. :-) >BTW how long did you wait to watch Star Wars? If you mean the latest one I'm still waiting. It hasn't meet the ten year rule yet! >PS. the date on the email was 01/01/1998 Oops! I just had to reinstall WinBlows and I still haven't gotten eveything straightened out yet. >-- >Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * >www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html > From rmurphy at itm-inst.com Mon May 20 21:46:17 2002 From: rmurphy at itm-inst.com (Rick Murphy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: DEC machines that can't format a disk (Was: Good Trip/Score Dec In-Reply-To: <200205210201.VAA11946@caesar.cs.umn.edu> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020520213042.00a6c6c0@mail.itm-inst.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020520224448.00a7a040@mail.itm-inst.com> At 09:01 PM 5/20/02 -0500, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > > Given the simplicity of the drive hardware - it *had* to have a servo > track > > to position itself - there's no surprise it couldn't low-level format. > Sort > > of like most modern disk drives - but you can probably buy a 50 GB IDE > > drive today for the cost of one RL01 cartridge back then :-( > > > >Umm, you do know that 120Gb IDE hard drives are $120 or less. The trick is >figuring a way to USE a 120Gb drive in place of a RL02... Yup. I've never had to buy a RL cartridge, though, so I've no idea how much they cost. (All my RL disks were VMS distribution disks recycled onto my PDP-8.) -Rick From univac2 at earthlink.net Mon May 20 21:59:20 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: computer sales -- now only on e-bay??? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.19980101025515.4c47fe04@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: on 1/1/98 2:55 AM, Joe at rigdonj@cfl.rr.com wrote: > Speaking of rusting hulks, Mike was here and spotted two OLD!!!! Bendix > computers at one place that we visited. He's going to try buy them. I don't > know what they are but they have paper tape readers and a programmers panels > on them. Were they Bendix G-15s? Those are awesome. I've only dreamed of owning one. Paul Pierce has one: http://www.piercefuller.com/collect/bendix/index.html -- Owen Robertson From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon May 20 22:10:17 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: AppleTalk ISA card Message-ID: <200205210310.UAA28542@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Anyone out there considering getting rid of an LocalTalk ISA card? I'd prefer the Apple-manufactured version if possible. Let me know off-list if you might be persuaded to part with it. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- How are you gentlemen? All your base are belong to us! --------------------- From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon May 20 23:13:04 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: Amiga 4000 with Toaster References: Message-ID: <00d801c2007d$cef267e0$62000240@default> Why are you giving up so fast ??? Make whatever offer you can afford to make, you have nothing to lose and you may get lucky. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" To: Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 6:57 PM Subject: Re: Amiga 4000 with Toaster > >Also keep in mind that you need time stable sources for the video > >inputs. If you want to use VHS VCR's you'll be disappointed, and you'll > >need a couple full fram TBC's as well. As a video professional, I'd > >think twice before getting a Toaster for hobby video . . . the new > >digital cameras and digital editing is far easier to implement. > > The draw backs aren't really going to matter after all... your initial > price of $400 puts one out of my price range. I can't very well even > justify it for using it for editing when I have a perfectly good firewire > setup with my DV Cam and iMac that so far is doing everything I need. I > would like a 2nd video deck, so I would rather put the money towards a > 2nd camera. (that is why I stopped hunting for a good deal on an SVHS > editing system... as much as I would love to have one some day, they are > still too expensive for me to justify when I can do everything with my > camera and iMac) > > I was kind of hoping by some miracle, the 4000 with Toaster would be > almost worthless, and I could have gotten away with offering a very low > price. Alas, it appears to be worth some money like I figured it was. > > Thanks for the info. > > -chris > > > From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Mon May 20 23:59:53 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: [CCTALK] Rants Message-ID: <20020521050131.XCQF5445.imf15bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Richard Erlacher > If someone's views offend you, you can filter them off into a mailbox of their > own, and either read them or not, depending on your mood. That's your right > and privilege, and, perhaps, duty, since it certainly shouldn't be Jay's job > to accomodate everyone's individual preferences, quirks, and foibles. Granted. My error. Glen 0/0 From dougq at iglou.com Tue May 21 06:05:58 2002 From: dougq at iglou.com (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: computer sales -- now only on e-bay??? Message-ID: <001701c200b7$7d89e740$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > Doc wrote: > > > I've also noticed tacit cooperation concerning eBay auctions. If I > >recognise a bid as made by a list member, I don't bid against them, and > >that seems to be the norm. > > Or, you soon realize that you shouldn't bother bidding > against AEK. There's another guy who bids on virtually everything I want... I "know" him, in that I've personally dealt with him from time to time... I don't think he's a subscriber here, but at any rate, I usually let him have the items, and just shrug it off (like a large removable disk drive subsystem that I honestly would have had trouble with shipping). But I always get a big, big wide grin when AEK bids against the guy, and generally wins... BTW, the guy in question is a decent guy, didn't want to make it seem otherwise, it's just the his collection has no public face of any kind, and so it's like this stuff is just being sucked into a black hole... -dq From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue May 21 06:21:27 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: computer sales -- now only on e-bay??? In-Reply-To: <001701c200b7$7d89e740$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 May 2002, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > > Doc wrote: > > > > > I've also noticed tacit cooperation concerning eBay auctions. If I > > >recognise a bid as made by a list member, I don't bid against them, and > > >that seems to be the norm. > > > > Or, you soon realize that you shouldn't bother bidding > > against AEK. So who _is_ AEK? Doc From dougq at iglou.com Tue May 21 06:33:56 2002 From: dougq at iglou.com (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: computer sales -- now only on e-bay?? Message-ID: <002601c200bb$649e3750$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > On Tue, 21 May 2002, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > > > > Doc wrote: > > > > > > > I've also noticed tacit cooperation concerning eBay auctions. If I > > > >recognise a bid as made by a list member, I don't bid against them, and > > > >that seems to be the norm. > > > > > > Or, you soon realize that you shouldn't bother bidding > > > against AEK. > > So who _is_ AEK? Why, non other than "Uncle" Al Kossow... the visionary responsible for the Bitsavers Project, which is archiving as much old computer software and documentation as is humanly possible... -dq From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Tue May 21 07:21:56 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34 Settings References: <02052001202702.00280@simon> Message-ID: <3CEA3BE4.A6111436@Vishay.com> Tarsi, I do have a working 11/34A, so first, we need to make sure we have the same pair of processor boards (one board is "control", the other "data path"). I am not currently at home, but IIRC, the older 11/34 has boards labelled something like M725x, while the later 34A has M825x boards, with x being two consecutive digits for both boards in a pair. Whatever boards you have, once we know the M numbers, I should be able to look up the desired info from some piles of documentation. It may also depend on the boot ROM board. There is probably either a M9301 or a M9312 board in your backplane near the processor, and there may be additional jumpers on these boards that need to match your configuration, such as termination for certain bus lines. In addition, there need to be boot PROMs matching your boot device and controller. So, please let me know precisely which boards are involved, and I'll certainly find the information you need. Regards, Andreas Tarsi wrote: > > Anyone have a working 11/34 processor card who could email me what you have > your processor options switches set to? (S1) I can't get my machine to > boot, I suspect I flipped a wrong switch somewhere. > > Thanks, > Tarsi > 210 -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 21 07:55:45 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: computer sales -- now only on e-bay??? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.19980101025515.4c47fe04@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020521075545.31fff4b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> No, that's not it. It's about the right color and size but the ones here have a much wider panel on the front. They also have a programmer's panel that's about knee high and a paper tape reader that's slightly less than shoulder height. The PT reader looks like it might be the same as the one in your other picture. Joe At 09:59 PM 5/20/02 -0500, you wrote: >on 1/1/98 2:55 AM, Joe at rigdonj@cfl.rr.com wrote: > >> Speaking of rusting hulks, Mike was here and spotted two OLD!!!! Bendix >> computers at one place that we visited. He's going to try buy them. I don't >> know what they are but they have paper tape readers and a programmers panels >> on them. > >Were they Bendix G-15s? Those are awesome. I've only dreamed of owning one. >Paul Pierce has one: > >http://www.piercefuller.com/collect/bendix/index.html > >-- >Owen Robertson > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue May 21 08:08:55 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: FA: HP 9845B Computer/Calculator TMG232 Item # 2026012591 Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020521080855.0e9f485a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> FYI HP 9845B, located in Australia. From dougq at iglou.com Tue May 21 07:29:54 2002 From: dougq at iglou.com (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34 Settings Message-ID: <000701c200c3$3698c700$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > Tarsi, > > I do have a working 11/34A, so first, we need to make sure we have the > same pair of processor boards (one board is "control", the other "data > path"). I am not currently at home, but IIRC, the older 11/34 has boards > labelled something like M725x, while the later 34A has M825x boards, > with x being two consecutive digits for both boards in a pair. Andreas... Tarsi recently corrected himself, and stated that what he has is a PDP-11/23+, not a PDP-11/34... Regards, -doug q From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue May 21 07:43:22 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] TI-85 graphing calculator available Message-ID: <006101c200c5$184aae60$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative From rodyoung at shaw.ca Tue May 21 07:46:33 2002 From: rodyoung at shaw.ca (Rod Young) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: MS11 config in a PDP 11/44 ? References: <000501c1fd4b$d4ba05a0$72ecffcc@Shadow> <20020518035158.GA4484@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <002e01c1ff42$c2897fc0$0300a8c0@ss.shawcable.net> Message-ID: <002401c200c5$898d6ea0$0300a8c0@ss.shawcable.net> Anyone have any doc on the MS11-PB ECC MOS memory borad for the 11/44? I need to know how to connfigure it to co-exist with a lone 256 KB memory board in an 11/44. thanks rod From sloboyko at yahoo.com Tue May 21 08:18:44 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: computer sales -- now only on e-bay??? In-Reply-To: <001701c200b7$7d89e740$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20020521131844.87552.qmail@web11804.mail.yahoo.com> Certainly, I didn't want it to seem as though this was "bad". Al Kossow has won an auction of mine and I think he does have a website with very useful stuff on it. Ebay is a fairly pure form of capitalism. It's just me crying in my beer about not having pockets as deep. Still, if one gets lucky, and finds something misclassified or I can catch someone sleeping (sometimes literally, at 2:00 AM), bargains can STILL be had on eBay. --- "Douglas H. Quebbeman" wrote: > > Doc wrote: > > > > > I've also noticed tacit cooperation concerning > eBay auctions. If I > > >recognise a bid as made by a list member, I don't > bid against them, and > > >that seems to be the norm. > > > > Or, you soon realize that you shouldn't bother > bidding > > against AEK. > > There's another guy who bids on virtually everything > I want... > I "know" him, in that I've personally dealt with him > from > time to time... I don't think he's a subscriber > here, but > at any rate, I usually let him have the items, and > just > shrug it off (like a large removable disk drive > subsystem > that I honestly would have had trouble with > shipping). > > But I always get a big, big wide grin when AEK bids > against > the guy, and generally wins... > > BTW, the guy in question is a decent guy, didn't > want to > make it seem otherwise, it's just the his collection > has > no public face of any kind, and so it's like this > stuff > is just being sucked into a black hole... > > -dq > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From edick at idcomm.com Tue May 21 08:57:32 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: computer sales -- now only on e-bay??? References: <20020521131844.87552.qmail@web11804.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002e01c200cf$748811e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Oddly enough, eBay should reflect the highest prices. instead, some view it as producing the lowest. I'm not sure where this logic comes from. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Loboyko Steve" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 7:18 AM Subject: Re: computer sales -- now only on e-bay??? > Certainly, I didn't want it to seem as though this was > "bad". Al Kossow has won an auction of mine and I > think he does have a website with very useful stuff on > it. Ebay is a fairly pure form of capitalism. It's > just me crying in my beer about not having pockets as > deep. Still, if one gets lucky, and finds something > misclassified or I can catch someone sleeping > (sometimes literally, at 2:00 AM), bargains can STILL > be had on eBay. > > > > --- "Douglas H. Quebbeman" wrote: > > > Doc wrote: > > > > > > > I've also noticed tacit cooperation concerning > > eBay auctions. If I > > > >recognise a bid as made by a list member, I don't > > bid against them, and > > > >that seems to be the norm. > > > > > > Or, you soon realize that you shouldn't bother > > bidding > > > against AEK. > > > > There's another guy who bids on virtually everything > > I want... > > I "know" him, in that I've personally dealt with him > > from > > time to time... I don't think he's a subscriber > > here, but > > at any rate, I usually let him have the items, and > > just > > shrug it off (like a large removable disk drive > > subsystem > > that I honestly would have had trouble with > > shipping). > > > > But I always get a big, big wide grin when AEK bids > > against > > the guy, and generally wins... > > > > BTW, the guy in question is a decent guy, didn't > > want to > > make it seem otherwise, it's just the his collection > > has > > no public face of any kind, and so it's like this > > stuff > > is just being sucked into a black hole... > > > > -dq > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience > http://launch.yahoo.com > > From csmith at amdocs.com Tue May 21 09:06:39 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: DEC machines that can't format a disk (Was: Good Trip/Score Dec Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784659@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > Not when there are _good_ techncial reasons for it (like the > fact that > the RL01 can't format a blank pack becuase to make a positioner that > could step accurately enough without reading servo bursts from the > platter would be rediculously expensive). Well, that's different. :) > But when it's done for marketing reasons (so you have to buy the > manufacturer's expensive pre-formatted floppies, as was the > case with the > RX01, etc) then yes, of course it annoys me. ...but this is what I was talking about. Didn't they have "diagnostic" programs available in some cases (to field service) that would cause some of these systems to format their own disks, anyway? I'm certain there was something to get a Qbus VAX to format hard disks -- I mean, aside from a controller that would do it in firmware -- but that's probably a little different. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From dougq at iglou.com Tue May 21 09:17:11 2002 From: dougq at iglou.com (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: computer sales -- now only on e-bay??? Message-ID: <000701c200d2$333be290$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Dick wrote: > > > --- "Douglas H. Quebbeman" wrote: > > > > > Doc wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I've also noticed tacit cooperation concerning eBay auctions. If I > > > > > >recognise a bid as made by a list member, I don't bid against them, and > > > > > >that seems to be the norm. > > > > > > > > > > Or, you soon realize that you shouldn't bother bidding > > > > > against AEK. > > > > > > > > There's another guy who bids on virtually everything I want... > > > > I "know" him, in that I've personally dealt with him from > > > > time to time... I don't think he's a subscriber here, but > > > > at any rate, I usually let him have the items, and just > > > > shrug it off (like a large removable disk drive subsystem > > > > that I honestly would have had trouble with shipping). > > > > > > > > But I always get a big, big wide grin when AEK bids against > > > > the guy, and generally wins... > > > > > > > > BTW, the guy in question is a decent guy, didn't want to > > > > make it seem otherwise, it's just the his collection has > > > > no public face of any kind, and so it's like this stuff > > > > is just being sucked into a black hole... > > > > > Steve wrote: > > > Certainly, I didn't want it to seem as though this was > > > "bad". Al Kossow has won an auction of mine and I > > > think he does have a website with very useful stuff on > > > it. Ebay is a fairly pure form of capitalism. It's > > > just me crying in my beer about not having pockets as > > > deep. Still, if one gets lucky, and finds something > > > misclassified or I can catch someone sleeping > > > (sometimes literally, at 2:00 AM), bargains can STILL > > > be had on eBay. > > > > Oddly enough, eBay should reflect the highest prices. instead, some view it > > as producing the lowest. I'm not sure where this logic comes from. It just depends in the item. There will be no bargain Altairs or IMSAIs on E-Bay. But I'm picking up 9-track magtapes for reasonable prices, albeit slightly more expensive than Mark Tapley has been selling them for (I'm sampling the waters, so to speak). Ditto the more obscure stuff... As to the view that E-Bay *should* produce the lowest prices? No logic involved there, Dick, that's faith on the part of some people in the open hand of Adam Smith- a view I don't share. Comments about the failure of lassie-faire capitalism should be directed to me personally, please... -dq From dan at ekoan.com Tue May 21 09:09:42 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] TI-85 graphing calculator available In-Reply-To: <006101c200c5$184aae60$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020521100757.04bf8780@enigma> At 07:43 AM 5/21/02 -0500, you wrote: >I have a TI-85 graphing calculator available, including original manual, >and it works perfectly. I *THINK* it adheres to the 10 year rule, if not, >my sincerely apologies. I've got a TI-85 in the original box sitting here and the back of the box says (c) 1992, so you're certainly close enough. Cheers, Dan From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue May 21 09:30:58 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: computer sales -- now only on e-bay??? References: <20020521131844.87552.qmail@web11804.mail.yahoo.com> <002e01c200cf$748811e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3CEA5A22.B572F06C@jetnet.ab.ca> Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Oddly enough, eBay should reflect the highest prices. instead, some view it > as producing the lowest. I'm not sure where this logic comes from. > I think this do to auto-magic computer bidding. The bid stays at $1.00 until the last 5 minutes where the computer with the fastest net connection wins the bid 5 cents more than the other bids coming in for a grand total of about $974.70. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From csmith at amdocs.com Tue May 21 09:35:07 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: computer sales -- now only on e-bay??? Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E0178465A@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: R. D. Davis [mailto:rdd@rddavis.org] > It seems that way. I remember a time when one could find a wide > variety of classic computers advertised on Usenet newsgroups, for sale > to the first person to make a reasonable, or not so reasonable, offer > or pay the advertised price. Some of it was free plus shipping. I've Are you saying that doesn't happen any more? > rather try to conduct their own private auctions or else they post ads > mentioning that they're selling the equipment on e-bay; we see this > happening on classiccmp as well. "Private auctions?" If you mean selling at a price of "best offer," that's probably perfectly reasonable for something of which you can't decide the value. As for posting an add for an ebay auction, I won't say they can't do it, but it annoys me. If I wanted to go to ebay to find the stuff, I would. > One would think that, like the PDP-11s etc. were several years ago, > the AS/400, Aviion, VAX 4000 and Alpha systems, etc. would now be Perhaps it's a "right place, right time" thing. My Aviion was free. Needs something done to repair the clamps in the SIMM socket -- I haven't really got the equipment to solder a SIMM socket, or I'd rip one out of a peesee mainboard for this thing. Of course, it's difficult to find DG/UX for one, once you _have_ this Aviion. :) I've seen VAXStation 4000 systems for very reasonable (sub $100) prices, which is fine, considering how many of them are still in use. You can likely pick up free CISC AS/400s. > Perhaps a number of things: the emphasis on recycling, too many > collectors seeking collectors' items as opposed to hackish toys, sales > of scrap to china, etc. Well, it's kind of conceited to think that everyone wants to be a "computer collector" these days ;) I think the other points -- especially the recycling bit -- are right on. The solution, of course, is to find out where is your local recycling center, and to establish a relationship with somebody there. Many have no problems about selling computer-related trash, especially when they can get more for it than the could by recycling it. If you'll pay them $20 for that VAXStation 4000, you'd probably get it. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' -------------- next part -------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this message is proprietary of Amdocs, protected from disclosure, and may be privileged. The information is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s) of the message. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, use, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue May 21 09:45:45 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: PDP-11/70 backplane wire list ? Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020521094545.0092c540@ubanproductions.com> Does anyone have a PDP-11/70 backplane wire list? I have both a KB11-B and KB11-C printset and neither of them contain a backplane wire list. --tnx --tom From edick at idcomm.com Tue May 21 09:47:41 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: computer sales -- now only on e-bay??? References: <000701c200d2$333be290$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <001501c200d6$76a4ac20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yes, but my view, based on observation as well as what I learned in Econ101 suggests that eBay, as the auction environment, should produce the top price buyers are willing to pay. How one could see it as an environment that produces bargain prices, particularly when shiping often is the place where sellers make their money, (having received more than one item with USPS charges of $1.50 where I paid $10 for shipping) is beyond me. I often tell people wishing to figure out what to charge for something to look on eBay, at the "completed items" for the pricing history set by the last month's auctions. In the "classic" environment, where, one week, an item sells for $1k, and the next it doesn't even sell at $10, all bets are off, of course. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas H. Quebbeman" To: "ClassicCmp List" Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 8:17 AM Subject: RE: computer sales -- now only on e-bay??? > Dick wrote: > > > > > > Oddly enough, eBay should reflect the highest prices. instead, some view it > > > as producing the lowest. I'm not sure where this logic comes from. > > It just depends in the item. There will be no bargain Altairs or > IMSAIs on E-Bay. But I'm picking up 9-track magtapes for reasonable > prices, albeit slightly more expensive than Mark Tapley has been > selling them for (I'm sampling the waters, so to speak). Ditto > the more obscure stuff... > > As to the view that E-Bay *should* produce the lowest prices? No > logic involved there, Dick, that's faith on the part of some > people in the open hand of Adam Smith- a view I don't share. > > Comments about the failure of lassie-faire capitalism should > be directed to me personally, please... > > -dq > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue May 21 09:52:07 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: computer sales -- now only on e-bay??? References: <20020521131844.87552.qmail@web11804.mail.yahoo.com> <002e01c200cf$748811e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3CEA5A22.B572F06C@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <001b01c200d7$14ac4cc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yes, I use sniping software too, but I still set an upper limit. The environment is, after all, an auction, which is an open market, and the item for sale should bring whatever price the market will bear. What bothers me, of course, is that many buyers don't consider alternative sources, e.g. the "new" prices offered on pricewatch, for example, before setting their upper limit on the sniped bid. As a result, people develop inflated ideas about what something should bring, based not on realistic pricing, but on the stupidity of some bidders. What bothers me is that it shows up in the reserve prices some sellers set. Of course, one always has the right to keep his money ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Franchuk" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 8:30 AM Subject: Re: computer sales -- now only on e-bay??? > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > Oddly enough, eBay should reflect the highest prices. instead, some view it > > as producing the lowest. I'm not sure where this logic comes from. > > > I think this do to auto-magic computer bidding. The bid stays at $1.00 > until the last 5 minutes where the computer with the fastest net > connection wins the bid 5 cents more than the other bids coming in for a > grand total of about $974.70. > -- > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html > > From dogas at bellsouth.net Tue May 21 09:47:40 2002 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: Bendix M5 finds wasRe: computer sales -- now only on e-bay??? References: Message-ID: <006201c200d6$75f0ec80$5119d7d1@DOMAIN> From: Owen Robertson > > > Speaking of rusting hulks, Mike was here and spotted two OLD!!!! Bendix > > computers at one place that we visited. He's going to try buy them. I don't > > know what they are but they have paper tape readers and a programmers panels > > on them. > > Were they Bendix G-15s? Those are awesome. I've only dreamed of owning one. > Paul Pierce has one: > > http://www.piercefuller.com/collect/bendix/index.html > Hi Owen, Nope. These two are Bendix M5 systems. Eric Smith took some pictures of them but he's on the road right now and I haven't picked them up yet so look for pics soon one way or another. Cool looking systems. .about 5ft tall. Extensive programming panel up top and a real blinkenlight/toggle-switch diagnositc panel under a Remax tape reader and card cage. I already scored several 'Paper' tapes for it including Diagnostics, Exec 1, Exec 2, Exec 3, etc... They weren't really paper tapes though, they're puched metal foil 8 or 9 level program tapes. More details to follow soon. ;) - Mike From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Tue May 21 10:11:50 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34 Settings References: <000701c200c3$3698c700$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3CEA63B6.44752A61@Vishay.com> Thanks, Doug, yes, I found his correction shortly after I posted my reply (again, I'd better read all mails before answering to the first...). Sorry... I'll see what 11/23+ doc I have when I am back at home. A. > Andreas... > > Tarsi recently corrected himself, and stated that what he has is > a PDP-11/23+, not a PDP-11/34... > > Regards, > -doug q -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From foo at siconic.com Tue May 21 10:12:09 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: Bendix machine spotted In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.19980101025515.4c47fe04@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Jan 1998, Joe wrote: > Speaking of rusting hulks, Mike was here and spotted two OLD!!!! > Bendix computers at one place that we visited. He's going to try buy > them. I don't know what they are but they have paper tape readers and a > programmers panels on them. Probably G-15's. I have a complete manual set for them. If he does end up getting these I will acquire a certain amount of jealousy. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue May 21 10:19:03 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: computer sales -- now only on e-bay??? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.19980101030144.4aaf62d2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Jan 1998, Joe wrote: > At 02:44 PM 5/20/02 -0600, you wrote: > >Is the classic computer sources finally drying up to become E-bay > >collector items only so most people can't see a real machine anymore? > > Tell me, how much time did you honestly spend out looking for > classic computers within the last week???? I don't mean time spend > browsing E-bay or looking at messages on CC list or news-groups. I mean > time outside in a scrap yard or some place similar. > > I don't know you so I can't say how you operate but it's been my > experience that most people that complain about not being able to find > anything aren't really looking. So true. Maybe it's time to post a pointer to my Finding Vintage Computers primer. http://www.vintage.org/content.php?id=001 Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue May 21 10:22:22 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: Bendix machines In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020521075545.31fff4b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 May 2002, Joe wrote: > No, that's not it. It's about the right color and size but the ones > here have a much wider panel on the front. They also have a programmer's > panel that's about knee high and a paper tape reader that's slightly > less than shoulder height. The PT reader looks like it might be the same > as the one in your other picture. Pictures would be nice. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue May 21 10:26:15 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: Bendix M5 finds wasRe: computer sales -- now only on e-bay??? In-Reply-To: <006201c200d6$75f0ec80$5119d7d1@DOMAIN> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 May 2002, Mike wrote: > Nope. These two are Bendix M5 systems. Eric Smith took some pictures of > them but he's on the road right now and I haven't picked them up yet so look > for pics soon one way or another. > > Cool looking systems. .about 5ft tall. Extensive programming panel up top > and a real blinkenlight/toggle-switch diagnositc panel under a Remax tape > reader and card cage. I already scored several 'Paper' tapes for it > including Diagnostics, Exec 1, Exec 2, Exec 3, etc... They weren't really > paper tapes though, they're puched metal foil 8 or 9 level program tapes. I am drooling with envy :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From zmerch at 30below.com Tue May 21 10:55:30 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: Amiga 4000 with Toaster In-Reply-To: <00d801c2007d$cef267e0$62000240@default> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020521115530.013e8d70@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that John R. Keys Jr. may have mentioned these words: >Why are you giving up so fast ??? Make whatever offer you can afford to >make, you have nothing to lose and you may get lucky. Even if he'll take $300 for it, and it's outside of your price range, it might not be for those of us that have been drool^H^H^H^H^Hlooking for a nice Amiga system for a few [5] years now... You might even make a coupla bux as a "broker"... Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue May 21 11:08:06 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: Amiga 4000 with Toaster References: <3.0.1.32.20020521115530.013e8d70@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3CEA70E6.B07F9294@ccp.com> Roger Merchberger wrote: > > Rumor has it that John R. Keys Jr. may have mentioned these words: > >Why are you giving up so fast ??? Make whatever offer you can afford to > >make, you have nothing to lose and you may get lucky. > > Even if he'll take $300 for it, and it's outside of your price range, it > might not be for those of us that have been drool^H^H^H^H^Hlooking for a > nice Amiga system for a few [5] years now... > > You might even make a coupla bux as a "broker"... > > Laterz, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > > If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead > disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. Merch, what are yo looking for, early or late Amiga?? I will have an extra A2000 after I do an equipment shuffle here. If you want an AGA Amiga, good luck, they are few and far between. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue May 21 11:55:49 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: found VAXStation 3100 M38 memory Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146798F@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> This guy thinks this set will put the VAXStation3100m38 up to 32 MB of RAM... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2025133368 ...there is also a note about offering the rest of the VAX, or it gets scrapped. And good news is he's got RAM for auction, for my DEC 3000/400! Woo-hoo! He also has an SGI Indy slab... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2025132809 DISCLAIMER: I don't know the guy, just found it while looking for DEC3000 RAM... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From univac2 at earthlink.net Tue May 21 12:20:23 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:33 2005 Subject: Bendix M5 finds wasRe: computer sales -- now only on e-bay??? In-Reply-To: <006201c200d6$75f0ec80$5119d7d1@DOMAIN> Message-ID: on 5/21/02 9:47 AM, Mike at dogas@bellsouth.net wrote: > Nope. These two are Bendix M5 systems. Eric Smith took some pictures of > them but he's on the road right now and I haven't picked them up yet so look > for pics soon one way or another. > > Cool looking systems. .about 5ft tall. Extensive programming panel up top > and a real blinkenlight/toggle-switch diagnositc panel under a Remax tape > reader and card cage. I already scored several 'Paper' tapes for it > including Diagnostics, Exec 1, Exec 2, Exec 3, etc... They weren't really > paper tapes though, they're puched metal foil 8 or 9 level program tapes. Please put me in your will. :-) -- Owen Robertson From zmerch at 30below.com Tue May 21 12:20:55 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:34 2005 Subject: found VAXStation 3100 M38 memory In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146798F@yalepress3.unipre ss.yale.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020521132055.01303ee8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that David Woyciesjes may have mentioned these words: >This guy thinks this set will put the VAXStation3100m38 up to 32 MB >of RAM... Well, it's hard to say if *his* set is the full monty, but I just *happen* to have a VAXStation3100/m38 with 32Meg in it, so it is possible! Shipping on the rest of the VAX shouldn't be that bad -- it's a fairly bulletproof system, and not that big... >And good news is he's got RAM for auction, for my DEC 3000/400! Woo-hoo! Sure... I'm sure you didn't post _that_ link to keep me bidding against you for that -- for my DEC 3000/300! Mine's only got 64Meg; and I heard VMS is rather doggy in that amount... (tho I'd doubt that it'd be any worse than Tru64 Unix, but that's just speculation...) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From zmerch at 30below.com Tue May 21 12:27:40 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:34 2005 Subject: Amiga 4000 with Toaster In-Reply-To: <3CEA70E6.B07F9294@ccp.com> References: <3.0.1.32.20020521115530.013e8d70@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020521132740.013e8d70@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Gary Hildebrand may have mentioned these words: >Merch, what are yo looking for, early or late Amiga?? I will have an >extra A2000 after I do an equipment shuffle here. If you want an AGA >Amiga, good luck, they are few and far between. I'd prefer a later Amiga (3000/4000, but I'd even be happy with a 1200) mainly for the ability to use not-quite-so-nonstandard hardware (ie IDE or SCSI drives, PeeCeelike floppies, and the ability to use a multisync VGA monitor would be *golden* -- not so much for the resolution, but for the ability of using 1) hardware I already own, and 2) the ability to use the monitor portion of a KVM switch - I'm direly limited in space right now... :-( Whazza AGA Amiga? Never had one before, so I don't know all the intracacies of the Amiga line... Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue May 21 12:39:06 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:34 2005 Subject: found VAXStation 3100 M38 memory Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467992@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Roger Merchberger > > Rumor has it that David Woyciesjes may have mentioned these words: > >This guy thinks this set will put the VAXStation3100m38 up to 32 MB > >of RAM... > > Well, it's hard to say if *his* set is the full monty, but I just *happen* > to have a VAXStation3100/m38 with 32Meg in it, so it is possible! > > Shipping on the rest of the VAX shouldn't be that bad -- it's a fairly > bulletproof system, and not that big... > - Yeah, my 3100m38 has 32MB also. I'm just not positive if he's identifying the boards right. I mean, he's not even positive. :) > >And good news is he's got RAM for auction, for my DEC 3000/400! Woo-hoo! > > Sure... I'm sure you didn't post _that_ link to keep me bidding against > you > for that -- for my DEC 3000/300! Mine's only got 64Meg; and I heard VMS is > rather doggy in that amount... (tho I'd doubt that it'd be any worse than > Tru64 Unix, but that's just speculation...) > - Sorry Roger, it's more of a "Please let me have it! Don't bid on it!" kind of begging... :) Well, wait, IIRC, the 3000/300 uses different kind of memory sticks anyway, doesn't it? -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From zmerch at 30below.com Tue May 21 12:56:57 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:34 2005 Subject: found VAXStation 3100 M38 memory In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467992@yalepress3.unipre ss.yale.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020521135657.011e7230@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that David Woyciesjes may have mentioned these words: [snip] >- Sorry Roger, it's more of a "Please let me have it! Don't bid on >it!" kind of begging... :) Don't have the cash currently for it anyway... so that wasn't a problem. I was just pickin' on ya! ;-) > Well, wait, IIRC, the 3000/300 uses different kind of memory sticks >anyway, doesn't it? I dunno - I thought most of the lower-end 3000's all used "normal" memory - as in 72-pin FPM parity memory; but I could be wrong, I've only owned a 3000/300. Even that's kinda hard to find without paying an arm & another necessary appendage... Now methinks I'll have to look up the auction, just to see if there's pix of that memory... Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue May 21 13:12:44 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:34 2005 Subject: found VAXStation 3100 M38 memory Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467995@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Roger Merchberger > > Rumor has it that David Woyciesjes may have mentioned these words: > > [snip] > > >- Sorry Roger, it's more of a "Please let me have it! Don't bid on > >it!" kind of begging... :) > > Don't have the cash currently for it anyway... so that wasn't a problem. I > was just pickin' on ya! ;-) > Well, yeah, what else would you be doing? like I would really be begging. How un-geek-like. :-P > > Well, wait, IIRC, the 3000/300 uses different kind of memory sticks > >anyway, doesn't it? > > I dunno - I thought most of the lower-end 3000's all used "normal" memory > - > as in 72-pin FPM parity memory; but I could be wrong, I've only owned a > 3000/300. Even that's kinda hard to find without paying an arm & another > necessary appendage... > > Now methinks I'll have to look up the auction, just to see if there's pix > of that memory... > Well, my 3000/400 uses, I believe, 100-pin memory SIMMs. Looks like regular PC EDO stuff from a distance. But they're really abut 5 or 6 inches long. There are 4 daughterboards, in the /400, each of which holds 4 SIMMs, totaling 16 100-pins SIMMs in there... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From lgwalker at mts.net Tue May 21 13:06:35 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:34 2005 Subject: computer sales -- now only on e-bay??? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.19980101030144.4aaf62d2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3CEA465B.10016.1E0B2E5B@localhost> While this is true in urban centers, it certainly isn't for those of us that live in the boonies. I did acquire an Itellevision with an Adam tho. A local junk warehouse also has a bunch of HP stuff stuck away on the 3rd floor gathering dust that I have to catalogue for the list, since I know ziltch about HPs. I was a kid in candyland on my recent trip to Vancouver BC.and returned with my car stuffed with goodies. The number of yard sales were phenominal and the biggest bonus was the yearly take-all garbage put-out. I plan to make it a yearly event only next time I might take a trailer. Lawrence > On Thu, 1 Jan 1998, Joe wrote: > > > At 02:44 PM 5/20/02 -0600, you wrote: > > >Is the classic computer sources finally drying up to become E-bay > > >collector items only so most people can't see a real machine anymore? > > > > Tell me, how much time did you honestly spend out looking for > > classic computers within the last week???? I don't mean time spend > > browsing E-bay or looking at messages on CC list or news-groups. I mean > > time outside in a scrap yard or some place similar. > > > > I don't know you so I can't say how you operate but it's been my > > experience that most people that complain about not being able to find > > anything aren't really looking. > > So true. Maybe it's time to post a pointer to my Finding Vintage > Computers primer. > > http://www.vintage.org/content.php?id=001 > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net Love of the Goddess makes the poet go mad he goes to his death and in death is made wise. Robert Graves From foo at siconic.com Tue May 21 13:25:28 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:34 2005 Subject: computer sales -- now only on e-bay??? In-Reply-To: <3CEA465B.10016.1E0B2E5B@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 May 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > While this is true in urban centers, it certainly isn't for those of us > that live in the boonies. I did acquire an Itellevision with an Adam > tho. A local junk warehouse also has a bunch of HP stuff stuck away on > the 3rd floor gathering dust that I have to catalogue for the list, > since I know ziltch about HPs. The most important thing to finding old computers is to look in places that you hadn't considered before. Think to yourself, "Who around here would have had a need for computers 10 or 20 or 30 years ago?" Then find places that fit the "who" and start investigating. The key is to GET OUT THERE AND LOOK! I walked many, many, many miles to amass my collection. Unless you like eBay, and even if you do, you won't find the really cool stuff sitting behind your CRT. And you'll have much more fun and much better stories to tell in the end. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dougq at iglou.com Tue May 21 13:44:59 2002 From: dougq at iglou.com (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:34 2005 Subject: computer sales -- now only on e-bay??? Message-ID: <000701c200f7$9c8aa810$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > On Tue, 21 May 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > While this is true in urban centers, it certainly isn't for those of us > > that live in the boonies. I did acquire an Itellevision with an Adam > > tho. A local junk warehouse also has a bunch of HP stuff stuck away on > > the 3rd floor gathering dust that I have to catalogue for the list, > > since I know ziltch about HPs. > > The most important thing to finding old computers is to look in places > that you hadn't considered before. Think to yourself, "Who around here > would have had a need for computers 10 or 20 or 30 years ago?" Then find > places that fit the "who" and start investigating. Around here (Louisville, KY) those places are in a part of town that, well, you are likely to be stopped and searched on the assumption you are on your way to a crack house. Other parts of town you'll simply be shot at. > The key is to GET OUT THERE AND LOOK! I walked many, many, many miles to > amass my collection. Unless you like eBay, and even if you do, you won't > find the really cool stuff sitting behind your CRT. > > And you'll have much more fun and much better stories to tell in the end. If you survive... Y'all come out here for a visit sometime, Sellam... I'll protect you as best I can, brother! ;) From allain at panix.com Tue May 21 13:48:00 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:34 2005 Subject: computer sales -- now only on e-bay??? References: <3.0.6.16.19980101030144.4aaf62d2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3CEA465B.10016.1E0B2E5B@localhost> Message-ID: <00ee01c200f8$08386c00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > While this is true in urban centers, it certainly > isn't for those of us that live in the boonies. One good thing about boonies. They have less agressive companies that hang on to older computers longer and thus release them into the world later. I speak of the small remote cities like Rochester and Schenectady. John A. From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue May 21 13:54:57 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:34 2005 Subject: found VAXStation 3100 M38 memory In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020521132055.01303ee8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 May 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: > > >And good news is he's got RAM for auction, for my DEC 3000/400! Woo-hoo! > > Sure... I'm sure you didn't post _that_ link to keep me bidding against you > for that -- for my DEC 3000/300! Mine's only got 64Meg; and I heard VMS is > rather doggy in that amount... (tho I'd doubt that it'd be any worse than > Tru64 Unix, but that's just speculation...) You guys, that's just plain old generic 36-bit parity SIMMs. How much memory do you need? Yes, tested in my 3000/300x, if you want.... Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue May 21 13:57:08 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:34 2005 Subject: found VAXStation 3100 M38 memory In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467992@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 May 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > - Yeah, my 3100m38 has 32MB also. I'm just not positive if he's > identifying the boards right. I mean, he's not even positive. :) 32M is max, and there's 4 onboard, so you typically see a 16M card with a 12M daughterboard. Does anybody on this list _not_ own an m38? :) Doc From zmerch at 30below.com Tue May 21 13:57:06 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:34 2005 Subject: found VAXStation 3100 M38 memory In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467995@yalepress3.unipre ss.yale.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020521145706.011e7230@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that David Woyciesjes may have mentioned these words: >Well, my 3000/400 uses, I believe, 100-pin memory SIMMs. Looks like >regular PC EDO stuff from a distance. But they're really abut 5 or 6 inches >long. There are 4 daughterboards, in the /400, each of which holds 4 SIMMs, >totaling 16 100-pins SIMMs in there... Yeouch! That sounds 1)wicked, ;-) and 2)expensive... :-( And I thought finding compatible memory for my 3000/300 would be bad! Anyone have a list of the compatible memory vendors for that beastie? Thankz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From csmith at amdocs.com Tue May 21 13:53:49 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:34 2005 Subject: computer sales -- now only on e-bay??? Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784661@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas H. Quebbeman [mailto:dougq@iglou.com] > Around here (Louisville, KY) those places are in a part of town that, > well, you are likely to be stopped and searched on the assumption > you are on your way to a crack house. Other parts of town you'll > simply be shot at. As long as there's no body cavity search involved, they'll just be confused about your objective, and possibly your cargo of electronic components ;) "So you say you're looking for 'old computer parts'..."