From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Sat Jun 1 00:15:27 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:52 2005 Subject: What is this? Looks like maybe a VAX of some sort... In-Reply-To: <3CF8538A.3010007@aurora.regenstrief.org> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020601150957.02636e68@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 11:54 PM 31/05/2002 -0500, Gunther Schadow wrote: >PS: what are those Aquisition values? Are those original purchase >prices prorated for inflation? 45 thousand bucks seem to be high >even for an RA81. But what was the original purchase price >back then? It's been a while but in 1983 (maybe '84) I was involved with purchasing some of the first RA81s in Australia and $45K each is about what we paid for them. This included educational discount and in those days an Australian dollar was probably worth more than a US one, so $45K "retail" sounds about right. Let's see, that's less than $100/Mb! Of course we were badly bitten by the glue problem that RA81s had, and the two original drives were replaced several times. In fact the HDAs were replaced so frequently that Joe (our Digital engineer) and I had it down to less than 20 minutes.... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sat Jun 1 00:44:52 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:53 2005 Subject: transcript from the weird VAX 6000 Message-ID: <3CF85F54.1000006@aurora.regenstrief.org> O.K., I checked the DC cleanlyness with the scope and it is wonderfully clean. But it's strange. When I first power it on just power the memory, the lights on the key-switch console are all wild (like green and red all at the same time.) Again the DWMBA didn't work. And caused machine checks errors. Again two of the XBIA cards caused the CPU to shut down the moment it was going to test the VAXBI stuff. Can you tell from the transcript below what might be wrong? Whithout XBIA it seems to be working fine. Now I put in just one of them without an XBIB counterpart: #123456789 0123456789 0123456789 01234567# F E D C B A 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 NODE # . A . . . . M M . . . . . P TYP . o . . . . + + . . . . . + STF . . . . . . . . . . . . . B BPD . . . . . . . . . . . . . + ETF . . . . . . . . . . . . . B BPD ?12 Machine check occurred during machine check processing. PC = 2007C25F SAVPSL = 041F1200 ISP = 201403F0 What the heck? Hit the reset button and: #123456789 0123456789 0123456789 01234567# F E D C B A 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 NODE # . A . . . . M M . . . . . P TYP . o . . . . + + . . . . . + STF . . . . . . . . . . . . . B BPD . . . . . . . . . . . . . + ETF . . . . . . . . . . . . . B BPD . . . . . . A2 A1 . . . . . . ILV . . . . . . 32 32 . . . . . . 64 Mb ROM0 = V3.00 ROM1 = V3.00 EEPROM = 2.03/3.07 SN = AG94408846 This time it worked. No VAXBI stuff detected, sure, there is none. #123456789 0123456789 0123456789 01234567# F E D C B A 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 NODE # . A . . . . M M . . . . . P TYP . o . . . . + + . . . . . + STF . . . . . . . . . . . . . B BPD . . . . . . . . . . . . . + ETF . . . . . . . . . . . . . B BPD . . . . . . A2 A1 . . . . . . ILV . . . . . . 32 32 . . . . . . 64 Mb ROM0 = V3.00 ROM1 = V3.00 EEPROM = 2.03/3.07 SN = AG94408846 Now I put the other XBIA in and two XBIBs to talk to. See what happens this time #123456789 0123456789 0123456789 01234567# F E D C B A 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 NODE # A A . . . . M M . . . . . P TYP o o . . . . + + . . . . . + STF . . . . . . . . . . . . . B BPD and boom, the CPU lights went out. What's going on here? hit reset button and: #123456789 0123456789 0123456789 01234567# F E D C B A 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 NODE # A A . . . . M M . . . . . P TYP o o . . . . + + . . . . . + STF . . . . . . . . . . . . . B BPD . . . . . . . . . . . . . + ETF . . . . . . . . . . . . . B BPD Machine Check Stack Frame: 80000011 21800000 2004C79C 00000000 0700130E 00000013 2004C78D 041F0004 PCSTS: 00000888 PCERR: 21800000 PCTAG: 40000000 BCSTS: 01800000 BCERR: 2004D7D0 BCBTS: 20000000 BCP1TS: 20000000 BCP2TS: 20000000 IPORT: 800003D1 XBER: 8000A041 XFADR: 61800000 RCSR: 01280001 Machine Check Stack Frame: 80000011 21800000 2004C79C 00000000 0700130E 00000013 2004C78D 041F0004 PCSTS: 000008C8 PCERR: 21800000 PCTAG: 40000000 BCSTS: 01800000 BCERR: 2004D7D0 BCBTS: 20000000 BCP1TS: 20000000 BCP2TS: 20000000 IPORT: 800003D1 XBER: 8000B041 XFADR: 61800000 RCSR: 01280011 ?12 Machine check occurred during machine check processing. PC = 2004FF02 SAVPSL = 041F1200 ISP = 201403EC Now that I see those machine check issues, I think I've seen those before. It might be that these problems had been waiting for the last year to come up. I guess I should be replacing everything with the spare set of guts that I have boxed up. This isn't right, and I don't know what else to do. cheers, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Jun 1 00:59:17 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:53 2005 Subject: What was that mystic Commodore 6509 computer? References: <3CF851AF.3040406@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <3CF862B5.D9D346FA@jetnet.ab.ca> Gunther Schadow wrote: > > There was this computer Commodore was going to make and then pulled > out of the market. It was based on the 6509 CPU, I guess right before > the 6510 / C64. I thought then as now that the case was especially > nicely shaped (such beautiful round corners, reminescent of my 91 > Chevy Caprice.) I still remember when all those boards came onto > the surplus market in a German electronics mail order catalog. When > Commodore pulled them all from the market. I actually bought one > back then, because I needed a replacement SID or something like that > (I don't remember.) So, now I was looking for something in my old > junk box and that board fell back into my hands. I think I don't > need it any more, may be there is some collector here who would > appreciate that board and bring it to life? Nothice that this is > not a running system. It's just a mother board and all ROMs are > pulled. The 6509 is on there and I'll be darned if it wasn't still > good. These guys might be interested. http://retrobits.com/ckb/secret From Innfogra at aol.com Sat Jun 1 01:12:00 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:53 2005 Subject: What is this? Looks like maybe a VAX of some sort.. Message-ID: <40.1e827644.2a29bfb0@aol.com> The pallet in the upper right of the second picture are the three UPSs. The Pallet in the upper left of the second picture is the HP 7820? Which I think is actually a 7920 50 Meg removable pack disk drive. My 1981 HP catalog lists them at $14,000 to 18,000 new. The pallet on the bottom right of the second picture is the HP 2608 printer, a 400 LPM printer. In 1981 list price was $9,900. The pallet in the lower left of the second picture is a printer in a crate. It does not look like another HP printer from what little I can see. I think the first picture is a MicroVAX system with the RA Disk drive on the top. I think it is the one listed at $154,000+ and called disk memory unit. From univac2 at earthlink.net Sat Jun 1 02:11:39 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:53 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] MicroPDP-11/23+ now boots! In-Reply-To: <1851060184.20020531093233@subatomix.com> Message-ID: on 5/31/02 9:32 AM, Jeffrey Sharp at lists@subatomix.com wrote: > Oh yes, and how could I forget: > - Owen Robertson for much help and conversation Many people either say I'm easily forgettable, or they wish that I were. :-) -- Owen Robertson From sipke at wxs.nl Sat Jun 1 07:21:33 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:53 2005 Subject: TRS80 Pocket PC or Sharp PC1211 Diagrams Message-ID: <001a01c20966$dea71040$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Does anybody have a scanned version of the TRS Pocket PC or the Sharp PC-1211 aviable. I've recently obtained one (TRS-type) including printer/cassette interface but after installing new batteries the machine seem a rather psychotic and is only eratically reacting toa few keypresses. I locks up pretty soon after. A reset does give a reaction that seems normal. PCB's and keyboard look ok, so the CPU is still doing something ????? On the backside of the main PCB there are two capacitors (small tanlatium) that seem to have been blown (could be RF-filters also) I can't really see the because of a ribboncable. Anyway these components have spilled some debris on the PCB so something is wrong there ..... From dan at ekoan.com Sat Jun 1 07:29:54 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:53 2005 Subject: What is this? Looks like maybe a VAX of some sort.. In-Reply-To: <40.1e827644.2a29bfb0@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020601082437.036daec0@enigma> At 02:12 AM 6/1/02 -0400, you wrote: >The Pallet in the upper left of the second picture is the HP 7820? Which I >think is actually a 7920 50 Meg removable pack disk drive. My 1981 HP >catalog lists them at $14,000 to 18,000 new. [...] >The HP disk drive should be saved. There are very few left because they are >such good clean aluminum and gold scrap. Those older HP drives are $$$ in a >scrappers eyes and they would not even think of offering it to a collector. >Few survive. Some even came with a HP-IB interface. Apparently Norfolk has at least three 7920s, exclusive of this lot. See http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=57058 Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From dan at ekoan.com Sat Jun 1 07:48:29 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:53 2005 Subject: Sperry-Univac terminal, etc. in Georgia Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020601084714.036d8090@enigma> http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=48287 Looks like some screen burn-in, but otherwise in pretty good shape. Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From zmerch at 30below.com Sat Jun 1 09:00:15 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:53 2005 Subject: What was that mystic Commodore 6509 computer? In-Reply-To: <3CF851AF.3040406@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020601100015.01709828@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Gunther Schadow may have mentioned these words: >There was this computer Commodore was going to make and then pulled >out of the market. It was based on the 6509 CPU, I guess right before >the 6510 / C64. I thought then as now that the case was especially >nicely shaped (such beautiful round corners, reminescent of my 91 >Chevy Caprice.) I still remember when all those boards came onto >the surplus market in a German electronics mail order catalog. When >Commodore pulled them all from the market. I actually bought one >back then, because I needed a replacement SID or something like that >(I don't remember.) So, now I was looking for something in my old >junk box and that board fell back into my hands. I think I don't >need it any more, may be there is some collector here who would >appreciate that board and bring it to life? Nothice that this is >not a running system. It's just a mother board and all ROMs are >pulled. The 6509 is on there and I'll be darned if it wasn't still >good. Without seeing pictures, it sounds like a Commodore B-128 (the business end of Commie's computer line) - it was the predecessor of the C-128 - it was 6509-based, with a header to add the Z-80 coprocessor board - they were in production, but I don't know for how long, or how many were made... HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jun 1 09:05:24 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:53 2005 Subject: DECserver 500 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020601140524.85648.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Of what use is a DECserver 500? What sort of processing power does it > have? It's a terminal server with an internal Qbus and a PDP-11/53 processor (with different ROMs). I have the CPU board from one with the original ROMs replaced - M7554-PB, with 512KB onboard and an 18MHz xtal near the CPU. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jun 1 09:10:02 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:53 2005 Subject: DEC SDI drives (was Re: What is this? Looks like maybe a VAX of some sort..) In-Reply-To: <40.1e827644.2a29bfb0@aol.com> Message-ID: <20020601141002.66646.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > I think the first picture is a MicroVAX system with the RA Disk drive on > the top. I think it is the one listed at $154,000+ and called disk memory > unit. A single DEC RA81 was $26,000, MSRP, in mid-1984. At this point, you'd have to be pretty hard up for an SDI disk to want to pay real money for one. I have a couple. I don't use them unless I _really_ have to. They have a 30A momentary surge at spinup, and draw many amps (spec'ed at 8A) when running. From a megabytes/megawatts standpoint, they are at the bottom of the SDI curve. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From geneb at deltasoft.com Sat Jun 1 09:56:40 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:53 2005 Subject: What was that mystic Commodore 6509 computer? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020601100015.01709828@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: > Without seeing pictures, it sounds like a Commodore B-128 (the business end > of Commie's computer line) - it was the predecessor of the C-128 - it was > 6509-based, with a header to add the Z-80 coprocessor board - they were in > production, but I don't know for how long, or how many were made... > An interesting thing about the B-128... A large user group formed around the machine and when Commodore axed it, the user group sued them (and won!) getting all the schematics, designs & chip masks so they could continue to maintain their machines. This is what I _heard_ happened, so you might want to check with Cameron Kaiser(sp?) to find out for sure. He's be the definitive source on this. g. From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sat Jun 1 08:13:46 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:53 2005 Subject: TRS80 Pocket PC or Sharp PC1211 Diagrams In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 01 Jun 2002 14:21:33 +0200." <001a01c20966$dea71040$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: <200206011313.OAA02808@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Sipke de Wal" said: > Does anybody have a scanned version > of the TRS Pocket PC or the Sharp PC-1211 > aviable. You might find some info or at least some links at: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Byte/3964/sharp or http://www2.asub.arknet.edu/wade/hardware.htm -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Jun 1 10:24:11 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:53 2005 Subject: What was that mystic Commodore 6509 computer? In-Reply-To: from Gene Buckle at "Jun 1, 2 07:56:40 am" Message-ID: <200206011524.IAA26376@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Without seeing pictures, it sounds like a Commodore B-128 (the business end > > of Commie's computer line) - it was the predecessor of the C-128 - it was > > 6509-based, with a header to add the Z-80 coprocessor board - they were in > > production, but I don't know for how long, or how many were made... > An interesting thing about the B-128... A large user group formed around > the machine and when Commodore axed it, the user group sued them (and > won!) getting all the schematics, designs & chip masks so they could > continue to maintain their machines. This is what I _heard_ happened, so > you might want to check with Cameron Kaiser(sp?) to find out for sure. > He's be the definitive source on this. You spelled it right, but I'm not familiar with that story (though it certainly seems plausible in Europe, where the machines were more common, so it's probably true). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I cannot see without closing my eyes -- Sarah Masen, "75 Grains of Sand" --- From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jun 1 10:54:05 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:53 2005 Subject: locating shorts Re: HP ScanJet ADF In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.20020531115047.009bd200@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020601105405.2957e40c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> >Probably a shorted decoupling capacitor (if it's a 'dead short' or close >to one). I have been known to carefully cut power traces to find out >which section is shorted, and then home in on the problem. That's the way that I've traced shorts down. However since then I've bought a HP Current probe, they're supposed to be able to trace a short down the correct path. I've never had a need for it since I bought it so I dont know how well it works. Has anyone had any experience using one? Or you can >desolder components to test them. > >Don't use the trick I once saw recomended of applying a high current >(10's of amps) PSU to attempt to burn out the short. Something will burn >out, it's true, but it will just be the weakest connection, not >necessarily the shorted component. OUCH! I've never seen that recommended and I sure wouldn't try it. In my experience, a hard short will completely remove the circuit runs from the board. And those can be a real pain to replace, I've seen some runs disappear so completely that it was nearly impossible to tell that they were ever there. Joe > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jun 1 11:29:29 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:53 2005 Subject: Overtemp In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020601112929.295740fa@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:03 AM 5/31/02 -0400, you wrote: > > There are many things one can do with a non-functioning Next Cube. The >following URL was generated by someone who, a) apparently has found the >most obsessive ultimate activity, and, b) has way, way, way too much time >on his mind. IMHO, anyway... > > > > http://simson.net/photos/hacks/cubefire.html > > > Ya jus' cain't make this-here shit up, I'm a-tellin ya! Jeeeezzz! Unbelievable. I'm sure as hell glad that I don't live in the People's republic of Kalifarnia anymore! I've obtained and burned dozens of pounds of magnesium sheets (plates out of torpedo batteries). We just light them up in my front yard or where ever we happen to be. No questions, no permits, no hassles even the neighbors enjoy the show. My experience with burning magnesium is the same as what they experienced, the magnesium will melt first and then ignite. I small piece will usually hold it shape to some degree but large pieces will melt and run into a puddle before they ignite. The picture in the article doesn't even come close to looking like a magnesium fire! It's a BRILLANT white light. It's brighter and whiter than a welding arc or even the sun. I seriously doubt that they could successfully take a picture of it. But if you really want to see something spectaculor, pour a little water onto the burning magnesium! Not many people realize that burning magnesium will take the oxygen out of water or even CO2 so instead of putting out the flame both will act as oxidizers! FWIW burning magnesium doesn't only produce magnesium oxide (aka mild of magnesia) it also reacts with nitrogen and forms magnesium nitride. If you later pour water on the ash containing magnesium nitride it will react with it and release ammonia gas. Joe > > > Cheers > >John > > From foo at siconic.com Sat Jun 1 10:41:31 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:53 2005 Subject: Sperry-Univac terminal, etc. in Georgia In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020601084714.036d8090@enigma> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Jun 2002, Dan Veeneman wrote: > http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=48287 > > Looks like some screen burn-in, but otherwise in pretty good shape. Also has that delamination problem around the edges, but pretty severely. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jun 1 11:59:42 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:53 2005 Subject: KC/Topeka prowling with Mr. Rigdon In-Reply-To: <3CF42D17.19F32340@ccp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020601115942.3ed7eb74@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi All, I just back from Kansas. To tell the truth I wasn't expecting to find anything out there but the pickings were a lot better than I expected. I meet up with Gary Hildebrand and he showed my around. Our best source was in Topeka. I got a Bell & Howell black Apple II, I spotted SIX! Zenith Z-110s, a TI-990 with blicken lights on the front panel, a TRS model 1, several Compaq P-IIs and a P-III, parts of an original IBM Display Writer. Gary found and bought an Ozzy OCC-1 and several Commie 64s and peripherals in their original boxs and some Vic 20 and c-64 cartridges. I also found a pile Amiga cards that Gary bought. Gary hadn't even been looking in the baskets of cards that they had pulled, but I'll bet that he does from now on! I just got a message from him and he says that the cards are really special so he's really tickled with them. I also found a number of odd Apple II cards and split them with Gary. He and I both got an Echo card which I think is a speech synthesizer, he got a card that appears to add LocalTalk and Mac type serial port to the Apple II, I got a card with a cigarette pack sized external box that appears to be some kind of external I/O interface. It's made by Don Johnson Developement Equipment and says Adaptive Firmware Card on it. Sorry to take so long to report but something happened to my interent connection while I was gone and it took a couple of days to straighten out. In addition, I stayed an extra day and TRIED to vist the Harley Davidson Assembly plant in KCMO but didn't make it there. BTW has anyone here tried to carry an old computer on the arilines lately and had to go through the WHOLE security checkout? I did and it was "interesting". :-( Joe At 08:21 PM 5/28/02 -0500, you wrote: >Returned to my last gold mine in Topeka; Joe and I found some nice >stuff. With his sharp eyes he found more Amiga memory & SCSI cards for >me. He went home with some S100 memory cards, and a B&H (black) Apple >II. I came home with another C64, two 1541 drives, another Ozzie I with >modem, and miscellaneous Apple II cards and documentation. > >Surplus Exchange(in the west Bottoms) had the goodies cordoned off; I >believe they are throwing out the vintage stuff and rearranging the >salable PC stuff. > >Had a find time killing the day. My thanks to Joe and his sharp eyes; >what he found really made my day. > >Gary Hildebrand >St. Joseph, MO > From dogas at bellsouth.net Sat Jun 1 11:00:26 2002 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:53 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 1 RS-232 EI Board References: <3.0.6.16.20020601112929.295740fa@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <003701c20985$7313c110$21db3fd0@DOMAIN> Saw this on Ebay/Buy-it-Now for $15 and thought someone here might be interested. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2028808515 - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jun 1 12:10:11 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:53 2005 Subject: KC/Topeka prowling with Mr. Rigdon In-Reply-To: <20020530054520.FJTK1167.imf26bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020601121011.2957f22c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:52 AM 5/30/02 -0400, you wrote: >> From: Gary Hildebrand > >> Had a find time killing the day. My thanks to Joe and his sharp eyes; >> what he found really made my day. > >You can always count on Joe to sniff out the good stuff. He's got a nose >like a bloodhound. The rest of his face doesn't look so good, either. >(Sorry, Joe, I couldn't resist that opportunity ;>) Umm, thanks Glen. Just remember I know where your shop is. :-) Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jun 1 12:40:43 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:53 2005 Subject: Apple II cards from Topeka In-Reply-To: <20020530054527.FJUU1167.imf26bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020601124043.428f4d10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Are you offering to relieve him of some of them? Joe At 12:57 AM 5/30/02 -0400, you wrote: >> From: Tarsi > >> 93 computers at my house now and counting.....:) > >Have you considered seeking professional help? ;>) > >Glen >0/0 > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jun 1 12:15:22 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:54 2005 Subject: Osborne 1 Video Adapter? (was:RE: IBM 026 Printing Card Punch) In-Reply-To: <20020530054534.FJWI1167.imf26bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020601121522.3f170424@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Glen, Didn't I give you the Ozzy Technical manual? I think they describe their version in there and I think they even include a schematic. IIRC there's nothing in it except for two connectors and a transistor. I believe it replaces the "Do Not Remove" plug on the front of the Ozzy. Joe At 01:02 AM 5/30/02 -0400, you wrote: >> From: Feldman, Robert > >> I was looking through the Alltronics listings and noticed a TTL-Composite >> video adaptor (http://www.alltronics.com/computer_miscellaneous.htm , >> #92C024) that looks like the adaptor I have for my Osborne 1! > >Robert -- > >Please tell me more about this adapter. I like my Oz 1 but hate the >screen. Where does it connect to the Oz? > >Glen >0/0 > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jun 1 12:28:51 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:54 2005 Subject: HP calcualteor power adapter In-Reply-To: References: <3CF25C2F.3020804@aconit.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020601122851.428f3ae2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:31 AM 5/28/02 +0100, you wrote: >> >> A little while ago I seem to remember someone in the UK saying they >> needed a power adapter for one of the original HP calculators - >> HP35/45/55 etc. >> I have one if that person would contact me off list.... > >It wasn't me, even though I have a fair collection of HP calculators >(including, I think, all but one of the devices to use that PSU). >However, this seems like a good place to post some information on >repairing said PSUs. > >This unit is one of the few that charges the battery properly. The PSU >has 3 connections to the calculator. Ground, a constant-voltage (4.2V) >supply to run the logic and a constant current (55mA) supply to charge >the NiCd. When the charger is not connected, then the battery is >connected to the logic supply line. When you plug the charger in, it >moves a contact in the calculator plug away from the pins and disconnects >the battery and the calculator. > >For models _without card readers_ (35, 45, 55, 70, 80) it's safe to >connect the charger without a battery pack in the calculator. There is no >connection between the battery and anything else when the charger is >plugged in. WARNING: this is true for all models EXCEPT the LED C models (25C, 29C, etc). DO NOT try to run one of them without a GOOD battery or you'll burn up the memory chips. FWIW In these the ROM, RAM and constant memory are all on the same ICs so you may destroy more than just the constant memory. For models with the card reader (65, 67), you must have a >good battery pack installed in the calculator before connecting the >charger. Otherwise the card reader sense amplifier chip sees the full >voltage of the constant current supply (about 16V) and may fail. This >chip is, of course, HP custom. Yes, However the same IC is used in the 67, 97 and the HP 41 card reader. So there are at least a supply of replacement ICs available if you're willing to sacrifice something. > >Anyway, getting back to the charger. There are basically 3 stages to the >circuitry. An unregulated DC PSU giving about 16V (transformer, 4 diodes >as a bridge rectifier, 400uF capactitor). A constant voltage regulator >(resistor + zenner and an emitter follower). And a constant current >regulator (a couple of transistors and resistors). All discrete >components, nothing custom. > >As to what goes wrong with them : > >1) Open-circuits in the output cable, particularly close to the >calculator connector. Trivial in theory, harder in practice. You have to >slice open the connector as it's moulded to the cable. This is by far the most common problem and they're usually intermitant so that makes them even harder to spot. > >2) The 400uF smoothing capacitor goes open-circuit. Easy to spot since the output voltage drops under load. The cap is short and replacements are difficult but not impossible to find. > >3) Some versions have a fuse between the transformer secondary and the >rectifier. It's a soldered-in picofuse. Sometimes it fails for no good >reason. > >4) The power transistors (especially the NPN one in the constant-voltage >circuit) can go open-circuit. > >Here's an ASCII-art schematic of the classic charger.... > > HP82011 (etc) 'classic series' charger > -------------------------------------- > > (Unregulated PSU) > >-----)|| > )||(----+----->|--+-----+------ +16V > )||( | | | > )||( | +-->|--+ === 400uF >Mains)||( | | --- > )||( +--)--|<--+ | > )||( | | | > )||(-------+--|<--+-----+---+ >-----)|| | > --- > /// > > (Constant voltage regulator) > > c e > +16V ----+------\ >---------------------- +4.2V Logic Supply > | \ / (NPN power transistor) > | ------- > / | b > \ | > / 470R | > \ | > | | > +---------+ > | > ---, > ^ 4.7V zener > | > --- > /// > > > (Constant current charger) > > (PNP power transistor) > 13R e c >+16V -----+----\/\/\---+--------> /------------- 55mA constant current > | | b \ / charger supply > | ----- ----- > | e / \ c | b > +----------> \--------+ > (PNP signal transistor) | > / > \ 4k7 > / > \ > | > --- > /// > > >-tony > Joe From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sat Jun 1 12:03:32 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:54 2005 Subject: What is this? Looks like maybe a VAX of some sort.. References: <40.1e827644.2a29bfb0@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CF8FE64.EEB295AB@gifford.co.uk> Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > The HP disk drive should be saved. There are very few left because they are > such good clean aluminum and gold scrap. Those older HP drives are $$$ in a > scrappers eyes and they would not even think of offering it to a collector. > Few survive. Some even came with a HP-IB interface. Fortunately, we resuced a couple of drives like this along with some HP-1000 systems a few weeks ago. They went to a collector in York (northern England). We even managed to find the alignment fixtures and the special gadget with lights and switches that you need if you're going to do maintenance work on the drive. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Sat Jun 1 13:04:47 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:54 2005 Subject: it's networked! (my VAXstation) References: <3.0.2.32.20020530095834.00daceac@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <3CF90CBF.7F40F50E@Vishay.com> Carlos, let's see: > paks to it (before I had to do each by hand). I get errors on > startup about some proxy database. Maybe these errors simply say that there are no records in the proxy database? - This wouldn't be a thing to worry about, I have seen lots of VMS nodes running fine that way. As long as you don't want anybody to do R commands (rexec, rsh etc.) or use NFS, you don't need any proxy records anyway. - Ah well, the LPD server can also use them. > Question: where can I get ssh for vax openvms 7.2? Try starting at http://er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu/~jonesd/ssh/DOC/ - I have no experience with this, but I am happily running a nice Web server from there. > Question: can somebody tell me what are the step by step > commands/dcl incantations to create a user with > reasonable privileges? (I don;t want to login remotely > to the system account). And, does the concept of > a user home directory exist in vms? Where does one > normally create user directories? The VMS equivalent of Unix' $HOME is SYS$LOGIN, and when creating an account, you will specify a /DEVICE and a /DIRECTORY for the user, which will together become the expansion of the SYS$LOGIN logical name when the user logs in. Typically, user accounts live in top-level directories on any non-system disk, but if there is only one disk at all, you can also put user directories on the system disk. I'd avoid putting them too deep into branches of the directory tree because of the eight level limit. Regular mortals have at most two privileges on VMS: TMPMBX and NETMBX. If you omit NETMBX, many DECnet and/or TCP/IP utilities will cease to work, e.g., the user will no more be able to log in to remote nodes, to COPY or FTP files, etc. TMPMBX is required for several regular utilities (I think, not even the Control-T feature will work without it), so every user should have this under normal circumstances. Basic commands to create a vanilla user account, assuming your user disk is DKA100:, assuming you want to create an account named CARLOS for yourself, and that you have not enabled disk quotas on DKA100: $ SET DEFAULT SYS$SYSTEM ! in case there is no SYSUAF logical name $ MCR AUTHORIZE UAF> ADD CARLOS/DEVICE=DKA100/DIR=[CARLOS]/UIC=[200,201] - _UAF> /OWNER="Carlos Murillo"/PASSWORD=MYSECRET/FLAGS=NODISUSER UAF> EXIT $ CREATE/DIRECTORY/OWNER=CARLOS USER$DISK:[CARLOS] You may want to choose a different UIC. After you complete the second line of the ADD command in AUTHORIZE, you will see confirmation messages (something %UAF-I-...) for both the account and a rights identifier. As you may guess, you can check the result with UAF> SHOW CARLOS, and you can check if a given UIC is still available with SHOW [200,201]. With wildcards like SHOW [200,*], the /BRIEF option is handy. Upon EXITing from AUTHORIZE, you will get two or three messages stating which of the files (SYSUAF, RIGHTSLIST, and NETPROXY) have / have not been modified. The new user will be forced to change his password when he first logs in. You can avoid this by including the /NOPWDEXPIRED option in the ADD command. The ADD command will copy user quotas and other properties of the new account from the DEFAULT account (UIC [200,200]). Depending on what you want to do with the account, these will probably require tuning. This can be done at any time, using the MODIFY command in AUTHORIZE. There is a HELP command available at the "UAF>" prompt. If you want more info, just ask. Have fun! -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From lists at subatomix.com Sat Jun 1 02:47:53 2002 From: lists at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:54 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] PDP-11/60 in UK on eBay Message-ID: <1055880585.20020601024753@subatomix.com> I'm not associated in any way with the seller. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2028620247 (Yes, this is a sneaky attempt to see if eBay happenings are on-topic.) -- Jeffrey Sharp The email address lists@subatomix.com is for mailing list traffic. Please send off-list mail to roach jay ess ess at wasp subatomix beetle dot com. You may need to remove some bugs first. _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From taper at triad.nu Sat Jun 1 08:10:16 2002 From: taper at triad.nu (taper) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: Legendary C64 group TRIAD Message-ID: <000a01c2096d$b4035e00$6400a8c0@triad> If you are interested in recieving NEW games and demos for the everlasting Commodore 64, join up with the TRIAD spreadlist. This way you will get all future TRIAD releases instantly via e-mail. Note; This is NOT an ordinary mailinglist, it's a one-way spreadlist, so don't worry about getting your mailboxes filled with crap. Since c64 productions only take up some kb's, also people on slow connections won't have any problems signing up. Throw a mail to taper@triad.nu to sign up with the list, and also give our website a visit on www.triad.nu Taper/TRIAD -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020601/14e845cd/attachment.html From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Sat Jun 1 11:45:07 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Cards to Identify Message-ID: <3CF8FA13.90CC2506@Vishay.com> Hello again, not quite the kind of things I am collecting, so I need help with finding out what precisely this is, and if somebody might be looking for it. I saved a couple of boards from getting scrapped, and if nobody wants them in total, I'll be happy with the chips alone (all the significant ones are in sockets, so I needn't even solder to harvest ;-). So, heads up please if you know something about one of these boards or want to have one. Sorry, no pictures available (yet). According to date codes, all of the boards must be from late 1983 or 1984. The boards _look_ OK, but I cannot test any of them. 1) Ungermann-Bass ISA board, the old extra long format (approx. 340mm or 13.4"), appears to be a 2261A type Ethernet adapter (?), has 18 DRAM chips, Intel 80186, C82586, NEC D8255, 24-pin chip with heat sink (glued on, so I cannot read what's on the chip itself). At the panel, there is a 15-pin sub-D female connector with posts for retaining screws (didn't someone mention lately that some manufacturers had different opinions about the slide-lock retainer for AUI interfaces?) and a red 5mm LED. 2) Ungermann-Bass motherboard, approx. 385mm * 305mm (15.15" * 12"), marked "LPB3 6600" or "LPB3 MODEL 6410", with Z80A CPU, 2 Z80 CTCs, 64kb DRAM (32 * 4116), EPROM (I guess a 2716, did not peel off the sticker yet). Near the center of one of the long edges is a 10-pin power connector: +5, +5, GND, GND, +12, -12, GND, +24, -5, GND. Along one of the short edges are three 50-pin Berg-style connectors (no recognizable description, but two of them appear to be driven mainly by a bunch of 74LS374s). At opposite corner: 10-position LED array, 8-position switch array. Along the other long edge, an I/O board can be fitted, and there are two different boards fitted to the two motherboards I have: 2a) "MODEL 6402A": 2 * RS232, female 25-pin sub-D connector, labelled "SERIAL PORT 1" and "SERIAL PORT 2"; 1 * IEEE 488 (labelled so), real-time clock (guess so, there is an OKI MSM5832 chip, a crystal, and a 3.6V NiCd battery). Other chips: Z80ADART, Z80APIO, TMS9914A (IEEE488 controller), Z80ADMA. 2b) "MODEL 6401": 4 * RS232, female 25-pin sub-D connector, labelled "SERIAL PORT 1" through "...4", then "PARALLEL PORT 5" and "PARALLEL PORT 6". Chips: Z80APIO, 2 * Z80ASIO. 3) Qbus-like board, supposedly a CPU, handles made by DEC, board is 4 slots wide, labelled "PCS" (is that PCS CADMUS?), has Motorola MC68000L10, 4k SRAM (2*6116), 16k EPROM (2*2764), clock chip (MM58167), battery. Between the handles, there are two 40-pin 3M connectors (Berg style). The EPROMs have stickers saying MINITOR MINITOR R900.123 R900.123 E9 2.200LO E10 2.200HI Any hints? - In case you want to trade: I am still looking for a sound card for my friend's IBM PS/2 (Microchannel). I cannot buy one of those currently offered on eBay because they again won't ship outside U.S. - darn! -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jun 1 13:14:21 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Cards to Identify In-Reply-To: <3CF8FA13.90CC2506@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020601131421.0ea7b244@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:45 PM 6/1/02 +0200, you wrote: > >1) Ungermann-Bass ISA board, > >2) Ungermann-Bass motherboard, #1&2 are both old ethernet boards. I doubt they're worth saving. some of them have power inverters (produces -8VDC from 5 or 12 VDC) on them so those parts might be usefull. >2a) "MODEL 6402A": 2 * RS232, female 25-pin sub-D connector, labelled >"SERIAL PORT 1" and "SERIAL PORT 2"; 1 * IEEE 488 (labelled so), >real-time clock (guess so, there is an OKI MSM5832 chip, a crystal, and >a 3.6V NiCd battery). Other chips: Z80ADART, Z80APIO, TMS9914A (IEEE488 >controller), Z80ADMA. Hmm. IEEE 488 is a HP-IB port so this is a usefull card. However finding drivers might be a problem. If you don't need it put it on E-bay, someone will recognize it and you should be able to a few dollars for it. > >2b) "MODEL 6401": 4 * RS232, female 25-pin sub-D connector, labelled >"SERIAL PORT 1" through "...4", then "PARALLEL PORT 5" and "PARALLEL >PORT 6". Chips: Z80APIO, 2 * Z80ASIO. No HP-IB port but based on the number it's probably made by the same manufacturer. Have you looked to see it etiher of these have an FCC ID code? They should. If so look up the manufacturer on the FCC's website. > >3) Qbus-like board, supposedly a CPU, handles made by DEC, board is 4 >slots wide, labelled "PCS" (is that PCS CADMUS?), has Motorola >MC68000L10, 4k SRAM (2*6116), 16k EPROM (2*2764), clock chip (MM58167), >battery. Between the handles, there are two 40-pin 3M connectors (Berg >style). The EPROMs have stickers saying > > MINITOR MINITOR > R900.123 R900.123 > E9 2.200LO E10 2.200HI > >Any hints? - No idea. In case you want to trade: I am still looking for a sound >card for my friend's IBM PS/2 (Microchannel). I cannot buy one of those >currently offered on eBay because they again won't ship outside U.S. - >darn! Try e-mailing the seller and asking if they will ship outside the US. Some will despite what their ads say. If you can't find anyting let me know and I'll try to pick up a surplus one for you. However it won't have docs or SW and that stuff might be hard to get. Joe > >-- >Andreas Freiherr >Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany >http://www.vishay.com >_______________________________________________ >cctech mailing list >cctech@classiccmp.org >http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech > _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Sat Jun 1 13:27:07 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Cards to Identify References: <3.0.6.16.20020601131421.0ea7b244@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3CF911FB.AEF73865@Vishay.com> Joe, thanks for your hints, I agree with #1: you confirmed what I suspected. Joe wrote: > > At 06:45 PM 6/1/02 +0200, you wrote: > > > >1) Ungermann-Bass ISA board, > > > >2) Ungermann-Bass motherboard, > > #1&2 are both old ethernet boards. I doubt they're worth saving. some of them have power inverters (produces -8VDC from 5 or 12 VDC) on them so those parts might be usefull. However, both of the #2 motherboards will not fit into any PC slot, they are about the footprint of a regular desktop PC itself. I believe it is some kind of pre-PC computer mainboard, but I was not aware Ungermann-Bass were ever building something like this. Of course, I had tried Google with no applicable results. > Hmm. IEEE 488 is a HP-IB port so this is a usefull card. However finding drivers might be a problem. If you don't need it put it on E-bay, someone will recognize it and you should be able to a few dollars for it. Yes, IEEE 488 is HP-IB. But, the port is on a daughterboard that fits into the #2 motherboards (with a very proprietary plug), so if this wants to be useful, I'd also need to revive the motherboard. Maybe this reduces usefulness to the TMS9914 controller chip. All these boards (#1 Ethernet adapter, #2 motherboard, #2a/b daughterboards) have "Ungermann-Bass" printed on them, so I am sure who made them. Only the board with the 68000 CPU is obviously from somebody else. I think I'l wait one or two days before harvesting the bigger chips - just to make sure I won't get punished by a desperate classiccmp collector for murdering his favourite, rare hardware... ;-) -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Sat Jun 1 14:06:37 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] PDP-11/60 in UK on eBay Message-ID: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2028620247 The seller is Swan Computers. This was up for 500UKP the other week and attracted no bids. They also appear to have parted out a VAX 8650 and a PDP-11/70 too. OTOH it seems to be reasonably common practice when acquiring the Nth large machine to strip the useful bits (boards, cables, cab kits, PSUs etc.) and ditch the cabinet to save on storage costs. So maybe these boards have been out of a machine for quite a while now. Antonio From Innfogra at aol.com Sat Jun 1 14:11:46 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Cards to Identify Message-ID: Finally read the description on the large cards. With 3 50 pin connectors I think it is a Bridge of some sort. The 82586 is intel's intelligent Ethernet controller so I am sure the 15 pin is an AIU Ethernet connector. Paxton Astoria, OR From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Sat Jun 1 15:20:33 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Cards to Identify References: Message-ID: <3CF92C91.B1022544@Vishay.com> Paxton, thanks, another suspicion is confirmed: > The 82586 is > intel's intelligent Ethernet controller so I am sure the 15 pin is an AIU > Ethernet connector. I've never built an Ethernet interface myself, but maybe now I have the chance to do so. Just need to find some time somewhere. I'll go back and look where I found the boards... ;-) > With 3 50 pin connectors I think it is a Bridge of some sort. You say they made terminal concentrators, too. Could these have had a Z80 processor, complete with 64k of RAM, for every group of, say, four serial interfaces, and the processor boards tied together at the 50-pin connectors? - Then it is indeed "harvest time" for chips. (Picture Robin Williams as he shouts these words in "Jumanji", during the flower attack... ;-) > > Paxton > Astoria, OR -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sat Jun 1 15:45:13 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: DEC SDI drives (was Re: What is this? Looks like maybe a VAX of some sort..) References: <20020601141002.66646.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3CF93259.6020207@aurora.regenstrief.org> Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > >>I think the first picture is a MicroVAX system with the RA Disk drive on >>the top. I think it is the one listed at $154,000+ and called disk memory >>unit. >> > > A single DEC RA81 was $26,000, MSRP, in mid-1984. At this point, you'd > have to be pretty hard up for an SDI disk to want to pay real money > for one. I have a couple. I don't use them unless I _really_ have to. > They have a 30A momentary surge at spinup, and draw many amps (spec'ed > at 8A) when running. From a megabytes/megawatts standpoint, they are > at the bottom of the SDI curve. Right, I have one RA81 and one RA82 and that's all I can/want to fit. I do like SDI disks though. RA90s are my standard disks for my VAX 6000s and they are fun. The nice thing about RA82s is that you can show them to people and say that they have almost the same capacity as a CD ROM drive (and they have the same shape, only scaled by a factor of, let's say, 8 to 10. Then you can open the hood just like in my car, check the alternator belt and I just haven't found the oil dip stick yet :-). I do want to get an RA60 some time, but as you say, it's a big deal with buying and shipping. I actually know where a few are rotting in the mud, but it's always the problem buying stuff from a scrap yard, you can end up paying more than in a happy hour on eBay for something that may be in much worse shape (rotten in the mud.) The weird thing about it is, the raw scrap value may not be that high, and those places tend to never actually capitalize on the scrap value. They let the stuff sit in the yard for decades. That's good on the one hand, so it stays somewhat conserved for the real desperate to pick up and pay for anyway. I guess the number one resourde you need as a scrapper is real estate and a second source of income, so you don't need much cash flow. BTW: I have a bunch of RA60 platters that wait for their mother ship to come some time in the future. Now, I never tried those platters. But on visual inspection I do see one concentric scratch of about 10 degrees length on each platter. That is the mark of a head crash, right? Does that mean that these platters are drop dead, never to be used again? Or is it just a few sectors that are killed that way? Is the slight roughness of the surface there going to damage the r/w heads on a working drive? If so, is there a way to polish this spot to make the rest of the platters useable? cheers, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sat Jun 1 15:47:47 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] PDP-11/60 in UK on eBay References: Message-ID: <3CF932F3.3090106@aurora.regenstrief.org> Antonio Carlini wrote: >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2028620247 >> > > The seller is Swan Computers. This was up for > 500UKP the other week and attracted no bids. > > They also appear to have parted out a > VAX 8650 and a PDP-11/70 too. OTOH it seems > to be reasonably common practice when > acquiring the Nth large machine to strip > the useful bits (boards, cables, cab kits, > PSUs etc.) and ditch the cabinet to save > on storage costs. So maybe these boards > have been out of a machine for quite a > while now. They have also got a VAX 11/780 for sale in parts. And lots of PDP-8 stuff. The exchange rate and international shipping makes it difficult to go shopping there though. cheers, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 1 13:51:02 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: What was that mystic Commodore 6509 computer? In-Reply-To: <3CF851AF.3040406@aurora.regenstrief.org> from "Gunther Schadow" at May 31, 2 11:46:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 651 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020601/7beb6a0a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 1 14:12:46 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: locating shorts Re: HP ScanJet ADF In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020601105405.2957e40c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Jun 1, 2 10:54:05 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1374 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020601/25ab1fbb/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 1 14:29:18 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: HP calcualteor power adapter In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020601122851.428f3ae2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Jun 1, 2 12:28:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4139 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020601/2e6ae9ed/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Sat Jun 1 17:18:57 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: KC/Topeka prowling with Mr. Rigdon In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020601115942.3ed7eb74@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Jun 2002, Joe wrote: > to the Apple II, I got a card with a cigarette pack sized external box > that appears to be some kind of external I/O interface. It's made by Don > Johnson Developement Equipment and says Adaptive Firmware Card on it. That's the Miami Heat upgrade for the Apple ][ that makes it run much "cooler". People who bought that for their Apple also usually bought a pair of sunglasses to wear while programming and sported five o'clock shadows to go with the whole image. > BTW has anyone here tried to carry an old computer on the arilines > lately and had to go through the WHOLE security checkout? I did and it > was "interesting". :-( I've done so twice since September 11: once on November 6 (to Austria) and last on April 25 (to Munich), both times schlepping scheisse for Hans. I always expect a good cavity check every time I fly now since I'm Arabic. The first time on the way to Austria it was relatively hassle free. They ran my bags through the X-ray machines but all the electronics and metal didn't seem to phase whoever was at the helm. Coming back I had a nice big old East German (as in DDR era) computer I bought at VCF Europa 2.0 and got stopped in London. Security took me down to a stairwell near the tarmack and had me open the boxes to show them what was inside. I also explained who I was and what I did for good measure. They were satisfied and let me on my way (and held the plane up for me). The last time I got checked on my way to Germany. In San Francisco, they ran my bags through the X-ray machine and saw lots of alarming wires, metal, etc. They checked through each bag thoroughly, which sucked because then I had to make sure everything was packed firmly again since I didn't want Hans to yell at me when I got to Munich with his stuff all broken up. On the way back I was hauling just a disk drive and some Atari carthridges not expecting any hassle, but the customs guys were complete dicks in Atlanta and held me up while they checked through my luggage. That's the first time I've ever had the full customs check. Atlanta sucks. Whoever tells you the checks are "random" and not based on ethnicity or appearance is just trying to be PC. I'm sure there is a bit of randomness involved, but that's for the non-Arab, non-Muslim flying contingent. There's only been one time out of perhaps ten where I didn't have to go through the extra pre-boarding check before a flight. I'm convinced that me and my peeps get red flagged and added to the "check thoroughly" pool as soon as we step in the airport, and other "regular" folk are just thrown into the pool at random to make it look like "we" aren't being targeted. Welcome to the New America. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Jun 1 17:23:58 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 1 RS-232 EI Board In-Reply-To: <003701c20985$7313c110$21db3fd0@DOMAIN> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Jun 2002, Mike wrote: > Saw this on Ebay/Buy-it-Now for $15 and thought someone here might be > interested. > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2028808515 Cool, thanks for posting that! I just Bought It Now for $15, which I think is a bargain because these things are very rare in my estimation (the only one I've ever seen is the one Rich Cini let me borrow). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sat Jun 1 17:29:16 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: KC/Topeka prowling with Mr. Rigdon References: Message-ID: <3CF94ABC.9D7A85E0@ccp.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > I always expect a good cavity check every time I fly now since I'm Arabic. > > The first time on the way to Austria it was relatively hassle free. They > ran my bags through the X-ray machines but all the electronics and metal > didn't seem to phase whoever was at the helm. Coming back I had a nice > big old East German (as in DDR era) computer I bought at VCF Europa 2.0 > and got stopped in London. Security took me down to a stairwell near the > tarmack and had me open the boxes to show them what was inside. I also > explained who I was and what I did for good measure. They were satisfied > and let me on my way (and held the plane up for me). > > The last time I got checked on my way to Germany. In San Francisco, they > ran my bags through the X-ray machine and saw lots of alarming wires, > metal, etc. They checked through each bag thoroughly, which sucked > because then I had to make sure everything was packed firmly again since > I didn't want Hans to yell at me when I got to Munich with his stuff all > broken up. On the way back I was hauling just a disk drive and some > Atari carthridges not expecting any hassle, but the customs guys were > complete dicks in Atlanta and held me up while they checked through my > luggage. That's the first time I've ever had the full customs check. > Atlanta sucks. > > Whoever tells you the checks are "random" and not based on ethnicity or > appearance is just trying to be PC. I'm sure there is a bit of randomness > involved, but that's for the non-Arab, non-Muslim flying contingent. > There's only been one time out of perhaps ten where I didn't have to go > through the extra pre-boarding check before a flight. I'm convinced that > me and my peeps get red flagged and added to the "check thoroughly" pool > as soon as we step in the airport, and other "regular" folk are just > thrown into the pool at random to make it look like "we" aren't being > targeted. > > Welcome to the New America. Same old America we've always had, ask the Japanese that were interred during WWII . . . paranoia ran rampant then and runs rampant now. We no longer have the Soviet threat (cold war), so we have to have another scapegoat. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jun 1 17:40:26 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 1 RS-232 EI Board In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Sat, 1 Jun 2002, Mike wrote: > >> Saw this on Ebay/Buy-it-Now for $15 and thought someone here might be >> interested. >> >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2028808515 > >Cool, thanks for posting that! I just Bought It Now for $15, which I >think is a bargain because these things are very rare in my estimation >(the only one I've ever seen is the one Rich Cini let me borrow). I've got one as well. If I remember correctly a common problem with the RS232 board is that it warps after a while and no longer makes good contact with the connectors in the EI. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From fernande at internet1.net Sat Jun 1 18:32:22 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Cards to Identify References: <3CF8FA13.90CC2506@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <3CF95986.6030903@internet1.net> If you are looking at the soundcards on Ebay that I think you are.... aren't they RS6000 only? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Andreas Freiherr wrote: > Any hints? - In case you want to trade: I am still looking for a sound > card for my friend's IBM PS/2 (Microchannel). I cannot buy one of those > currently offered on eBay because they again won't ship outside U.S. - > darn! From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sat Jun 1 19:17:33 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: the haunted VAX6000 has been exorcized! Message-ID: <3CF9641D.9090508@aurora.regenstrief.org> Yes! It was very much like Antonio suggested, a good deal of previously strangely behaving XBIA and XBIB boards were still working fine given the proper environment. I replaced the backplanes/cages for both XMI and VAXBI. I figured if nothing else, the set I put so neatly into boxes last year would be less exposed to dust and grime over the last year, and I did remember that one of the vaxen, i.e., this particular one did behave strangely even last year. Then step by step debugging with a little bit of board reseating and everything works now. Yeah! This is my second VAX6450 going online. Did I mention that one of them is now a VAXvector 6450 (with one vector processor right now because I still don't have more than one of the little cables.) It's going to be a VAXvector 6440 V2 (BTW: how was the number of vector CPUs officially counted?) and the other will be a VAX 6460. Both of them have 512 MB memory, one has a KDM70 with an SA600 with 8 RA90s the other now has the KDB50 with one RA90 and one RA92 in the "basement" of it's cabinet. I'm about to connecting the second VAX to the star coupler. And then all I need to do is fix the HSC90 that still gives me a k.ci error with status 111 (what the heck does that mean?) Then the HSC90 will plug in the port "B" of all the RA90s and RA92 and uh yes, there are also the RA81 and RA82, which I can't wait to actually use. My basement is going to be cleaned out now. It looks nice with two VAX 6000 and an SA600 shoulder to shoulder. Ah, yes, now I have an XMI and a VAXBI backplane cage spare. I will get rid of it one way or the other. If you want either or both, let me know. They are free for the taking or shipping. I'm sure that only one of them is actually defect AND I'm sure the defect could be fixed (I'd probably go with round in the dishwasher or so.) If you need parts from one, that's fine too. To know what's on them go to my VAX 6000 anatomy page. If I don't hear by soon, I will screw off all the parts and let the bulky stuff hit the dumpster. regards -Gunther Here is the transcript of a working VAX 6450 selftesting: >>> INIT c123456789 0123456789 0123456789 01234567# F E D C B A 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 NODE # A A . . M M M M . P P P P P TYP o o . . + + + + . + + + + + STF . . . . . . . . . E E E E B BPD . . . . . . . . . + + + + + ETF . . . . . . . . . E E E E B BPD . . . . . . . . . . + . + . + . XBI D + . . . . . . . . . + . . . . + . XBI E + . . . . A4 A3 A2 A1 . . . . . . ILV . . . . 128 128 128 128 . . . . . . 512 Mb ROM0 = V3.00 ROM1 = V3.00 EEPROM = 2.03/3.07 SN = AG94408846 >>> SHOW ALL Type Rev 1+ KA64A (8082) 000A 2+ KA64A (8082) 000C 3+ KA64A (8082) 000C 4+ KA64A (8082) 000A 5+ KA64A (8082) 000B 7+ MS65A (4001) 0084 8+ MS65A (4001) 0084 9+ MS65A (4001) 0084 A+ MS65A (4001) 0084 D+ DWMBA/A (2001) 0002 E+ DWMBA/A (2001) 0002 XBI D 1+ DWMBA/B (2107) 000A 3+ KDB50 (010E) 142C 5+ DEBNI (0118) 0300 XBI E 1+ DWMBA/B (2107) 000A 6+ TBK70 (410B) 0305 Current Primary: 1 /NOENABLED- /NOVECTOR_ENABLED- /NOPRIMARY- F E D C B A 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 NODE # . . . . A4 A3 A2 A1 . . . . . . ILV . . . . 128 128 128 128 . . . . . . 512 Mb /INTERLEAVE:DEFAULT /SCOPE /SPEED: 9600 /NOBREAK English XMI:D BI:5 08-00-2B-0B-23-AE DEFAULT /XMI:E /BI:6 CSA1 TAPE /XMI:E /BI:6 CSA1 ETH0 /XMI:D /BI:6 ET0 >>> -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sat Jun 1 19:43:05 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: anyone ever had an RA8x on top of a short rack? References: <20020601141002.66646.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> <3CF93259.6020207@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <3CF96A19.4020106@aurora.regenstrief.org> Since we were chatting about RA80s has anyone of you had an RA8x on top of a short rack? I have put on up onto my HSC90 but I found that they don't actually slide into the rack but the top panel of the rack is removed and then you can open the hood of the RA8x without pulling out the "drawer". This is a perfect arrangement for an RA60. However, I think there are some minor special parts that fill the gap between the side panels of the rack and the actual drive. Does anyone of you have those spare lying around somewhere or know where one might get those? Thanks, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sat Jun 1 19:54:51 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: Upgrading a VAX4000-200 to a -500, -700 etc.? References: <20020601141002.66646.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> <3CF93259.6020207@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <3CF96CDB.60204@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, I told you I got that VAX 4000-200 (not quite in my hands yet but soon.) But I really want to make it the fastest VAX around, i.e. that would be a -700 or something, right? Is such upgrade done simply by replacing the CPU blade? Or is there anything different about the Q-bus, PSU or whatnot? NetBSD's highest line of VAX is the -300 or -500, right? This is going to be my machine to build NetBSD kernels (I have basically given up on doing difficult development jobs on the VAX6000s. They're too slow. I have been trying three times to build GCC-2.98 and it failed every time. It's actually not so slow if you can do a parallel make, however, with GNU make and the -j option things get confused when bulding GCC. I think GNU make doesn't do a good job of keeping track of the dependencies between the parallel jobs, or, may be, the way the GCC makefiles are written they might escape GNU make's ernest attempt in synchronizing the parallel jobs. BTW: I remember Jason Thorpe said at BSDcon 2002 that NetBSD would soon be using GCC-3.0's full featured cross-platform compiling capabilities. Is that done already? I gues the best way for quick kernel build and debug turnaround would be doing it on my Laptop, which is by far my fastest machine. thanks, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jun 1 20:16:30 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: Upgrading a VAX4000-200 to a -500, -700 etc.? In-Reply-To: <3CF96CDB.60204@aurora.regenstrief.org> from "Gunther Schadow" at Jun 01, 2002 07:54:51 PM Message-ID: <200206020116.g521GUW00630@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I told you I got that VAX 4000-200 (not quite in my hands yet but > soon.) But I really want to make it the fastest VAX around, i.e. > that would be a -700 or something, right? Is such upgrade done > simply by replacing the CPU blade? Or is there anything different > about the Q-bus, PSU or whatnot? The -500 and up use a BA440 chassis, which has special slots for the CPU and memory. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From thompson at new.rr.com Sat Jun 1 20:19:52 2002 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: prices of things, (was Re: DEC SDI drives (was Re: What is this? Looks like maybe a VAX of some sort..)) In-Reply-To: <3CF93259.6020207@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Jun 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > >>I think the first picture is a MicroVAX system with the RA Disk drive on > >>the top. I think it is the one listed at $154,000+ and called disk memory > >>unit. > >> > > > > A single DEC RA81 was $26,000, MSRP, in mid-1984. At this point, you'd Is there a resource on the web that shows the original list prices for various classic machines or options? I would be tickled to know the original value of my various classic pieces of equipment (even just the DEC ones if not all including IBM or HP). In general, I was not there when they were purchased, or out of high school or college in most cases. Anti Flam War Disclaimer: I have not invented a time machine nor plan to relate the original prices to absurd ebay auctions. -- From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sat Jun 1 21:39:10 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: Amiga A2000 POST Message-ID: <3CF9854E.E640FABF@ccp.com> When powering on, the power LED flashes 10 times then a long flash, and repeats. Nothing else plugged in, no floppy, keybaord, mouse or cards. Anyone remember what that means??? Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From vaxzilla at jarai.org Sat Jun 1 21:42:46 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: Diagnosing a non-working Mac Performa 476? Message-ID: I've acquired a non-working Mac Performa 476. Unfortunately, I don't have any other Mac gear to help me with the diagnosis. I've the Performa 476 itself, which may or may not be working; I've got two Macintosh Color Displays (M1212) which may or may not be working, and one spare Performa 475 motherboard purchased from eBay. It was advertised as pulled from a working system--but I've no way to verify this. The seller was a reputable one, so I'm inclined to believe it's a good board. The 475 motherboard is identical to that of the 475. The difference between the two models being that the 476 shipped with a larger internal HD. When I power up the system, with monitor attached, the internal cooling fan spins up, the hard drive spins up (and sounds normal), and the machine chimes what I seem to recall as being the regular start up sound for this era of Mac. However, the display remains dark. If I power off the Mac, leaving the monitor on, the monitor makes a light static/crackle noise; it's the sort of sound I normally associate with a monitor that's lost the video input signal. I've played with the brightness and contrast controls without any success. If I switch the other monitor, the behavior is the same. If I switch from the orginal motherboard to the one I purchased on eBay, the behavior is the same. It's possible both monitors are bad and/or both motherboards are bad. I don't have a multimeter to verify that the voltages coming out of the PS are correct. Nor do I know that the hard drive is functional--but I'd assume that nothing needs to be loaded from the HD in order to get the display to come up. I'm a bit puzzled, and wondering if anyone here with insight on these Macs and their displays can give me any additional pointers. -brian. From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sat Jun 1 21:47:34 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: prices of things, (was Re: DEC SDI drives (was Re: What is this? Looks like maybe a VAX of some sort..)) References: Message-ID: <3CF98746.30800@aurora.regenstrief.org> Paul Thompson wrote: > Is there a resource on the web that shows the original list prices for > various classic machines or options? I would be tickled to know the > original value of my various classic pieces of equipment (even just the > DEC ones if not all including IBM or HP). > > In general, I was not there when they were purchased, or out of high > school or college in most cases. > > Anti Flam War Disclaimer: I have not invented a time machine nor plan to > relate the original prices to absurd ebay auctions. No flame war risk. I think that's one of the major tickles with collecting old big iron, i.e., that the stuff in my basement and garage once was worth 10 times as much as my house costs today, or just about so. And it's just a short time ago, like 10 to 20 years. regards, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jun 1 22:22:45 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: Amiga A2000 POST In-Reply-To: <3CF9854E.E640FABF@ccp.com> References: <3CF9854E.E640FABF@ccp.com> Message-ID: >When powering on, the power LED flashes 10 times then a long flash, and >repeats. Nothing else plugged in, no floppy, keybaord, mouse or cards. >Anyone remember what that means??? Different hardware combinations and problems will cause the LED to flash differently. I'm not aware of any reference outlining the POWER LED flashing. The caps lock LED tends to be used for specific codes, as is the color shown on the screen at various boot stages. Have you plugged a keyboard up to it and watched what it's LED does? Also, I know some Amiga models don't like being powered on without a floppy drive installed. That could be part of the problem. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jrasite at eoni.com Sat Jun 1 23:14:43 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: Diagnosing a non-working Mac Performa 476? References: Message-ID: <3CF99BAF.12190ACA@eoni.com> Change the PRAM battery. 4.5v alkaline IIRC. Radio Shack should have 'em. The stock one is about 1" square. There is a replacement that's about 1x1.5". It'll work too. Jim Brian Chase wrote: > > > When I power up the system, with monitor attached, the internal cooling > fan spins up, the hard drive spins up (and sounds normal), and the > machine chimes what I seem to recall as being the regular start up sound > for this era of Mac. However, the display remains dark. If I power off > the Mac, leaving the monitor on, the monitor makes a light > static/crackle noise; it's the sort of sound I normally associate with a > monitor that's lost the video input signal. I've played with the > brightness and contrast controls without any success. From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sat Jun 1 23:17:56 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: makeiso.exe for Windows 98 Message-ID: <3CF99C74.88D4C10B@compsys.to> I would like to set up an image of a CD in a hard disk file. I understand that makeiso.exe does this in UNIX. Does anyone have an executable version for Windows 98? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From fernande at internet1.net Sat Jun 1 23:41:18 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: dec parts available Message-ID: <3CF9A1EE.90407@internet1.net> 2- M7493-PA R440F Q R449F (S-box) to SCSI Converter (free plus shipping) 1- fan drawer from R400X DSSI expansion chassis. I think this is the same as any other BA440 style case, right? (15.00 plus shipping) Please contact me off list. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sun Jun 2 00:25:16 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: makeiso.exe for Windows 98 References: <3CF99C74.88D4C10B@compsys.to> Message-ID: <3CF9AC3C.557C23C@compsys.to> >"Jerome H. Fine" wrote: > I would like to set up an image of a CD in a hard disk file. > I understand that makeiso.exe does this in UNIX. Does > anyone have an executable version for Windows 98? I was just told that the name of the program is "mkisofs" in a Linux (or is that UNIX?). I want to be able to set up the file structure with "dummy" files every 65536 blocks so I can use the same files under both the iso file structure and the RT-11 file structure. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 2 00:16:31 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: Airport screening (was Re: KC/Topeka prowling with Mr. Rigdon) Message-ID: <20020602053949.NUUT1231.imf06bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Sellam Ismail > Whoever tells you the checks are "random" and not based on ethnicity or > appearance is just trying to be PC. I'm sure there is a bit of randomness > involved, but that's for the non-Arab, non-Muslim flying contingent. > There's only been one time out of perhaps ten where I didn't have to go > through the extra pre-boarding check before a flight. No offense, Sellam, but this only seems natural to me. I'm sure the airport security checks have gotten a bit tiresome, but we recently were attacked by Arab Muslims, and several thousand people died. If we'd been attacked by Irishmen I'm sure we'd be taking a harder look at them, too. Glen 0/0 From lists at subatomix.com Sun Jun 2 00:54:36 2002 From: lists at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: KC/Topeka prowling with Mr. Rigdon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19485483669.20020602005436@subatomix.com> On Saturday, June 1, 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > I've [flown with an old computer] twice since September 11: once on > November 6 (to Austria) and last on April 25 (to Munich), both times > schlepping scheisse for Hans. I always expect a good cavity check every > time I fly now since I'm Arabic. I subscribed to the magazine PC/Computing back in my larval stage, and for a time they had Penn Jillette writing extremely hilarious back-page funnies. One time, he actually suggested that people write scripts to display text like this ARMING . . . ARMED 0:17:00 UNTIL DETONATION for the security people to see when laptops were turned on at airports. For all our supposed freedom of speech, an article like that could never be published in a major magazine today. The article is here: http://www.sincity.com/penn-n-teller/pcc/security.html It passes the 10-year rule. -- Jeffrey Sharp The email address lists@subatomix.com is for mailing list traffic. Please send off-list mail to roach jay ess ess at wasp subatomix beetle dot com. You may need to remove some bugs first. From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sun Jun 2 02:45:28 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: What was that mystic Commodore 6509 computer? References: Message-ID: <3CF9CD18.5010606@aurora.regenstrief.org> Tony Duell wrote: >>There was this computer Commodore was going to make and then pulled >>out of the market. It was based on the 6509 CPU, I guess right before >> > > I believe there were several... One of them was the P500, aka the PET-II. > It's got a 6509 CPU, VIC-II video chip (I think), and uses the parallel > IEEE-488 bus for peripherals. A sort of cross between a C64 and a PET. > > They are not _that_ rare in the UK, at least not compared with some other > 'never sold' machines. > > The 6509 is a 6502 core with address extension registers (I think one > used for direct addresses, another for indirect addresses) allowing the > chip to access 1Mbyte of memory. Hmm, why would the 6509 have more address space than a 6510? Or is that "extension registers" the same as the "port" zero-page address that is used in the C=64 to change the memory ROM/RAM layout? I suppose if you used those 8 bits (or was it just 6 bit?) ports and hook 'em to address lines, you could get a 24 bit address bus, which gets you to 16 MB, or, if it's just a 6-bit port, it gets you to 4 MB. Not bad. Almost like the 8088, however you can't have a stack segment different from a data and text segment. That 256 byte stack is one big limitation in the 6502 family. cheers, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Jun 2 08:33:34 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: What was that mystic Commodore 6509 computer? In-Reply-To: <3CF9CD18.5010606@aurora.regenstrief.org> from Gunther Schadow at "Jun 2, 2 02:45:28 am" Message-ID: <200206021333.GAA09722@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > The 6509 is a 6502 core with address extension registers (I think one > > used for direct addresses, another for indirect addresses) allowing the > > chip to access 1Mbyte of memory. > Hmm, why would the 6509 have more address space than a 6510? Or is > that "extension registers" the same as the "port" zero-page address > that is used in the C=64 to change the memory ROM/RAM layout? Not quite. In the 6510 the registers at $0000/1 (and all 6510 derivatives, including the 7501, 8500, 8501 and 8502, used in the 264 series, the 64C, later 264s and the 128 series respectively), are merely an I/O port that happens to be hooked up to memory banking logic (as well as the Datasette port). Only a couple of those bits are actually used for ROM enable. On the 6509, there are four extra address lines, giving you up to 1MB. These lines are set by location $0000 for execution (which 64K "bank" the code is running from) and by location $0001 for indirection (i.e., on indirect indexed LDAs and STAs *only* the four bits in $01 would be asserted on the address lines to get at another bank). Not quite segment and offset addressing. :-) I have some sample code at http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/ckb/secret/b128.html ... look under "What's a 6509, Anyway?" -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Never blame on malice what can be blamed on abject idiocy. ----------------- From at258 at osfn.org Sun Jun 2 08:28:13 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: Airport screening (was Re: KC/Topeka prowling with Mr. Rigdon) In-Reply-To: <20020602053949.NUUT1231.imf06bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: Well, we needed new scapegoats. Harassing Puerto ricans was becoming boring. Now we have a whole assortment of various arabic muslims to torment. On Sun, 2 Jun 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > > From: Sellam Ismail > > > Whoever tells you the checks are "random" and not based on ethnicity or > > appearance is just trying to be PC. I'm sure there is a bit of > randomness > > involved, but that's for the non-Arab, non-Muslim flying contingent. > > There's only been one time out of perhaps ten where I didn't have to go > > through the extra pre-boarding check before a flight. > > No offense, Sellam, but this only seems natural to me. I'm sure the > airport security checks have gotten a bit tiresome, but we recently were > attacked by Arab Muslims, and several thousand people died. If we'd been > attacked by Irishmen I'm sure we'd be taking a harder look at them, too. > > Glen > 0/0 > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Jun 2 09:35:16 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: What was that mystic Commodore 6509 computer? References: <200206021333.GAA09722@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3CFA2D24.18793113@jetnet.ab.ca> Cameron Kaiser wrote: > On the 6509, there are four extra address lines, giving you up to 1MB. > These lines are set by location $0000 for execution (which 64K "bank" the > code is running from) and by location $0001 for indirection (i.e., on > indirect indexed LDAs and STAs *only* the four bits in $01 would be > asserted on the address lines to get at another bank). Not quite segment > and offset addressing. :-) And the 8086 segment addressing is a improvement? The only clean 8 bit extended addressing was with the 6809 and OS/9 level Two. Here you had 16 pages ( 4kb-each ) of virtual memory ,if I remember right, per processes with the upper 256 bytes common memory. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From davebarnes at adelphia.net Sun Jun 2 10:44:07 2002 From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: Upgrading a VAX4000-200 to a -500, -700 etc.? References: <20020601141002.66646.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> <3CF93259.6020207@aurora.regenstrief.org> <3CF96CDB.60204@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <3CFA3D47.4862E558@adelphia.net> To upgrade a 4000/200 to a faster cpu, you need to replace the entire backplane, the /200 was the last machine in the 4000 series that was 'all qbus'... the /300 and later were a new 'pele' bus for the cpu and memory and qbus for the rest. I have a 4000/700a, and its VERY fast... Gunther Schadow wrote: > Hi, > > I told you I got that VAX 4000-200 (not quite in my hands yet but > soon.) But I really want to make it the fastest VAX around, i.e. > that would be a -700 or something, right? Is such upgrade done > simply by replacing the CPU blade? Or is there anything different > about the Q-bus, PSU or whatnot? > > NetBSD's highest line of VAX is the -300 or -500, right? This is > going to be my machine to build NetBSD kernels (I have basically > given up on doing difficult development jobs on the VAX6000s. They're > too slow. I have been trying three times to build GCC-2.98 and it > failed every time. It's actually not so slow if you can do a parallel > make, however, with GNU make and the -j option things get confused > when bulding GCC. I think GNU make doesn't do a good job of keeping > track of the dependencies between the parallel jobs, or, may be, > the way the GCC makefiles are written they might escape GNU make's > ernest attempt in synchronizing the parallel jobs. > > BTW: I remember Jason Thorpe said at BSDcon 2002 that NetBSD > would soon be using GCC-3.0's full featured cross-platform > compiling capabilities. Is that done already? I gues the best > way for quick kernel build and debug turnaround would be doing > it on my Laptop, which is by far my fastest machine. > > thanks, > -Gunther > > -- > Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org > Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care > Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine > tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From davebarnes at adelphia.net Sun Jun 2 10:47:39 2002 From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: Upgrading a VAX4000-200 to a -500, -700 etc.? References: <200206020116.g521GUW00630@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3CFA3E1B.27794134@adelphia.net> correction.. thats -300 and up. Eric Dittman wrote: > > I told you I got that VAX 4000-200 (not quite in my hands yet but > > soon.) But I really want to make it the fastest VAX around, i.e. > > that would be a -700 or something, right? Is such upgrade done > > simply by replacing the CPU blade? Or is there anything different > > about the Q-bus, PSU or whatnot? > > The -500 and up use a BA440 chassis, which has special slots > for the CPU and memory. > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Sun Jun 2 10:06:21 2002 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:55 2005 Subject: What was that mystic Commodore 6509 computer? In-Reply-To: <3CFA2D24.18793113@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <1fd54vp.11d6rdfut9hnaM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> > Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > On the 6509, there are four extra address lines, giving you up to 1MB. > > These lines are set by location $0000 for execution (which 64K "bank" the > > code is running from) and by location $0001 for indirection (i.e., on > > indirect indexed LDAs and STAs *only* the four bits in $01 would be > > asserted on the address lines to get at another bank). Not quite segment > > and offset addressing. :-) > > And the 8086 segment addressing is a improvement? > The only clean 8 bit extended addressing was with the 6809 and OS/9 level > Two. Here you had 16 pages ( 4kb-each ) of virtual memory ,if I remember > right, per processes with the upper 256 bytes common memory. Actually it was 64 8k banks (512k total). Any 8 banks could be mapped into the 64k address space. I wouldn't call it virtual memory because that usually refers to RAM with a backing store file (usually on a hard disk). -- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com "Life. Don't talk to me about life." - Marvin, the android From jfoust at threedee.com Sun Jun 2 10:14:14 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: makeiso.exe for Windows 98 In-Reply-To: <3CF9AC3C.557C23C@compsys.to> References: <3CF99C74.88D4C10B@compsys.to> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020602100525.031228b8@pc> At 01:25 AM 6/2/2002 -0400, you wrote: >>"Jerome H. Fine" wrote: >> I would like to set up an image of a CD in a hard disk file. >> I understand that makeiso.exe does this in UNIX. Does >> anyone have an executable version for Windows 98? >I was just told that the name of the program is "mkisofs" >in a Linux (or is that UNIX?). I want to be able to set >up the file structure with "dummy" files every 65536 blocks >so I can use the same files under both the iso file structure >and the RT-11 file structure. A quick Google search found 'mkisofs' from http://www.cygwin.com/. The installation process is a bit convoluted, but it gives a good set of Unix-like tools for Windows. On the other hand, any of the bundled freebie CD burning programs that come with $60 CD-R drives these days (such as Roxio Easy CD Creator and Nero Burning ROM) will easily create an .ISO file for you from a list of files, using their nice Windows GUI instead of the 'mkisofs' command line. Although I have experience with true CD mastering back in the days before CD-R, and the early days of CD-R, I don't know enough about the .ISO file format to know whether you'll be able to just dump 64K of blocks into a spot in the .ISO in order to set those file systems. You've figured that out already? - John From dittman at dittman.net Sun Jun 2 10:35:22 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: Upgrading a VAX4000-200 to a -500, -700 etc.? In-Reply-To: <3CFA3E1B.27794134@adelphia.net> from "David Barnes" at Jun 02, 2002 10:47:39 AM Message-ID: <200206021535.g52FZMl14321@narnia.int.dittman.net> > correction.. thats -300 and up. Oops, you are right. I was thinking about the -500 and up needing the second revision of the backplane. > > > I told you I got that VAX 4000-200 (not quite in my hands yet but > > > soon.) But I really want to make it the fastest VAX around, i.e. > > > that would be a -700 or something, right? Is such upgrade done > > > simply by replacing the CPU blade? Or is there anything different > > > about the Q-bus, PSU or whatnot? > > > > The -500 and up use a BA440 chassis, which has special slots > > for the CPU and memory. > > -- > > Eric Dittman > > dittman@dittman.net > > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ > -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Sun Jun 2 11:34:55 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: makeiso.exe for Windows 98 References: <3CF99C74.88D4C10B@compsys.to> <5.0.0.25.0.20020602100525.031228b8@pc> Message-ID: <3CFA492F.3090104@dragonsweb.org> John Foust wrote: > At 01:25 AM 6/2/2002 -0400, you wrote: > >>>"Jerome H. Fine" wrote: >>>I would like to set up an image of a CD in a hard disk file. >>>I understand that makeiso.exe does this in UNIX. Does >>>anyone have an executable version for Windows 98? >> >>I was just told that the name of the program is "mkisofs" >>in a Linux (or is that UNIX?). I want to be able to set >>up the file structure with "dummy" files every 65536 blocks >>so I can use the same files under both the iso file structure >>and the RT-11 file structure. > > > A quick Google search found 'mkisofs' from http://www.cygwin.com/. > The installation process is a bit convoluted, but it gives a > good set of Unix-like tools for Windows. > > On the other hand, any of the bundled freebie CD burning programs > that come with $60 CD-R drives these days (such as Roxio Easy CD > Creator and Nero Burning ROM) will easily create an .ISO file for you > from a list of files, using their nice Windows GUI instead of the > 'mkisofs' command line. X-CD-Roast is a great GUI frontend for mkisofs and the rest of cdrtools. I just installed the latest versions of both, from source, in about 10 min. Not that mkisofs is hard to use to start with. You would have to patch it somehow to do the block allocation that way, though, I think. jbdigriz From Innfogra at aol.com Sat Jun 1 14:05:19 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Cards to Identify Message-ID: <33.27e59f83.2a2a74ef@aol.com> In a message dated 6/1/02 11:28:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Andreas.Freiherr@vishay.com writes: > All these boards (#1 Ethernet adapter, #2 motherboard, #2a/b > daughterboards) have "Ungermann-Bass" printed on them, so I am sure who > made them. Only the board with the 68000 CPU is obviously from somebody > else IIRC Ungerman Bass made repeaters and terminal concentrators also. Are there any serial plugs on the large MB like cards? Some of the terminal concentrator cards had 4 serial ports, some would take plug in cards at one end, usually for an Ethernet card. They have a processor and are about the original XT MB size. You could jumper some of the 4 serial port cards together to form a stack of 8 ports, maybe more. This stuff is old and probably only good for parts. We bought a bunch of this in the early 1990s and sold it back to Ungerman Bass because it was upgradable. Paxton Astoria, OR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020601/b39d25df/attachment.html From wonko at 4amlunch.net Sat Jun 1 19:51:59 2002 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: Upgrading a VAX4000-200 to a -500, -700 etc.? In-Reply-To: <3CF96CDB.60204@aurora.regenstrief.org>; from gunther@aurora.regenstrief.org on Sat, Jun 01, 2002 at 07:54:51PM -0500 References: <20020601141002.66646.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> <3CF93259.6020207@aurora.regenstrief.org> <3CF96CDB.60204@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <20020601205159.M11346@wintermute.4amlunch.net> On Sat, Jun 01, 2002 at 07:54:51PM -0500, Gunther Schadow wrote: > > I told you I got that VAX 4000-200 (not quite in my hands yet but > soon.) But I really want to make it the fastest VAX around, i.e. > that would be a -700 or something, right? Is such upgrade done > simply by replacing the CPU blade? Or is there anything different > about the Q-bus, PSU or whatnot? a /200 is completely non-upgradeable to the other 4000 models. a /200 is completely QBus, and the /300 and up use the PELE backplane. it is however the fastest QBus vax. ;) > NetBSD's highest line of VAX is the -300 or -500, right? This is i though michael got it working on a 105a? those are damn fast. is the 600 and 700 working? for some reason i though michael got them working as well. -brian -- Besides, statistics are different for computers. Experience has taught me that if you see one instance, it's an anomaly. If you see two, you're fucked. :-) -- Peter L. Wargo -- From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jun 1 21:34:59 2002 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: Upgrading a VAX4000-200 to a -500, -700 etc.? In-Reply-To: <3CF96CDB.60204@aurora.regenstrief.org> References: <20020601141002.66646.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> <3CF93259.6020207@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020601193314.0252c0b0@209.185.79.193> Hi Gunthar, Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the only way to upgrade the 4000/200 to a 4000/705a is to replace the backplane in the chassis. The 4000/300 and above only run in the BA430 chassis (whereas the 4000/200 could run in the BA213 and BA215) Sometimes a /300 has the faster backplane, all /400's and above do. --Chuck At 07:54 PM 6/1/02 -0500, Gunther Schadow wrote: >Hi, > > >I told you I got that VAX 4000-200 (not quite in my hands yet but >soon.) But I really want to make it the fastest VAX around, i.e. >that would be a -700 or something, right? Is such upgrade done >simply by replacing the CPU blade? Or is there anything different >about the Q-bus, PSU or whatnot? From wonko at 4amlunch.net Sat Jun 1 21:38:58 2002 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: Upgrading a VAX4000-200 to a -500, -700 etc.? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020601193314.0252c0b0@209.185.79.193>; from cmcmanis@mcmanis.com on Sat, Jun 01, 2002 at 07:34:59PM -0700 References: <20020601141002.66646.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> <3CF93259.6020207@aurora.regenstrief.org> <3CF96CDB.60204@aurora.regenstrief.org> <5.1.0.14.2.20020601193314.0252c0b0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <20020601223858.N11346@wintermute.4amlunch.net> On Sat, Jun 01, 2002 at 07:34:59PM -0700, Chuck McManis wrote: > > Sometimes a /300 has the faster backplane, all /400's and above do. i thought it was wider not faster? (64-bit data path vs. 32-bit) -brian -- Besides, statistics are different for computers. Experience has taught me that if you see one instance, it's an anomaly. If you see two, you're fucked. :-) -- Peter L. Wargo -- From mrfusion at uranium.vaxpower.org Sun Jun 2 08:41:47 2002 From: mrfusion at uranium.vaxpower.org (Lord Isildur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: Upgrading a VAX4000-200 to a -500, -700 etc.? In-Reply-To: <20020601205159.M11346@wintermute.4amlunch.net> Message-ID: the 600 works, the 700 is only a faster version of the [456]00, with a 2 meg cache instead of the 512 on the 600 and 128k on the [45]00. AFAIK the 700 works too. isildur On Sat, 1 Jun 2002, Brian Hechinger wrote: > i though michael got it working on a 105a? those are damn fast. is the 600 > and 700 working? for some reason i though michael got them working as well. From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Sun Jun 2 11:50:55 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: makeiso.exe for Windows 98 References: <3CF99C74.88D4C10B@compsys.to> <5.0.0.25.0.20020602100525.031228b8@pc> <3CFA492F.3090104@dragonsweb.org> Message-ID: <3CFA4CEF.7040209@dragonsweb.org> James B. DiGriz wrote: > John Foust wrote: > >> At 01:25 AM 6/2/2002 -0400, you wrote: >> >>>> "Jerome H. Fine" wrote: >>>> I would like to set up an image of a CD in a hard disk file. >>>> I understand that makeiso.exe does this in UNIX. Does >>>> anyone have an executable version for Windows 98? >>> >>> >>> I was just told that the name of the program is "mkisofs" >>> in a Linux (or is that UNIX?). I want to be able to set >>> up the file structure with "dummy" files every 65536 blocks >>> so I can use the same files under both the iso file structure >>> and the RT-11 file structure. >> >> >> >> A quick Google search found 'mkisofs' from http://www.cygwin.com/. >> The installation process is a bit convoluted, but it gives a >> good set of Unix-like tools for Windows. >> On the other hand, any of the bundled freebie CD burning programs that >> come with $60 CD-R drives these days (such as Roxio Easy CD Creator >> and Nero Burning ROM) will easily create an .ISO file for you >> from a list of files, using their nice Windows GUI instead of the >> 'mkisofs' command line. > > > X-CD-Roast is a great GUI frontend for mkisofs and the rest of cdrtools. > I just installed the latest versions of both, from source, in about 10 > min. Not that mkisofs is hard to use to start with. > > You would have to patch it somehow to do the block allocation that way, > though, I think. > > jbdigriz > > Ack, left out a relevant bit. X-CD-Roast as of the 0.98alpha dev. series, is written in C for GTK, so it should be possible, in principle, to get it running with Gnome/GTK on Windows. I have not tried it, though. jbdigriz From mythtech at mac.com Sun Jun 2 13:18:42 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: Diagnosing a non-working Mac Performa 476? Message-ID: >When I power up the system, with monitor attached, the internal cooling >fan spins up, the hard drive spins up (and sounds normal), and the >machine chimes what I seem to recall as being the regular start up sound >for this era of Mac. However, the display remains dark. If I power off >the Mac, leaving the monitor on, the monitor makes a light >static/crackle noise; it's the sort of sound I normally associate with a >monitor that's lost the video input signal. I've played with the >brightness and contrast controls without any success. Your start up bong should be a single smooth tone. If it is a "melody" of any kind, it is not a startup bong, but rather chimes of doom. The melody will tell you what may be the problem. The first thing is to check the PRAM battery. Many Macs will not start properly with a dead battery. If it is dead, Radio Shack stocks all 3 kinds used in Macs (but ironically, standard PC CMOS batteries are special order). I don't recall if the Performa 47x used the square 4.5 volt, or the 1/2 AA 3.6 volt. I think it might be the 1/2 AA, but either way, it will be pretty obvious when looking at the logic board. Also, press the CUDA button on the logic board (again, I don't recall off the top of my head if the 47x has one, but I think it does). This will be a small red button on the logic board. I seem to recall on the 47x it was either near the ports on the back of the board, or near the front by the floppy and HD connections. But again, it might not be there at all. The CUDA button will do a deep hardware reset, this will clear any screwed up hardware settings it might have (and is usually recommended to do after changing PRAM batteries, or adding or removing cards). Finally, if none of that works, disconnect the HD and floppy. You should get at the very least when no drives are connected, a grey screen with a disk with flashing question mark. If THAT doesn't work... do you have access to another Mac? Can you make a known good bootable floppy disk? (you can download a 7.5 disk tools image from Apple's web site). Build a disk, and put it in the drive (reconnected drive that is), and try to boot from it. If your system is working, but the monitor is dead, you will head the Mac doing a bunch of accessing of the floppy drive as it boots (They will boot fine with no monitor attached). But with all this, I suspect the problem will be a bad PRAM battery, or a need to press the CUDA button. -chris From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jun 2 13:22:31 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: makeiso.exe for Windows 98 In-Reply-To: <3CF9AC3C.557C23C@compsys.to> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Jun 2002, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > I was just told that the name of the program is "mkisofs" > in a Linux (or is that UNIX?). I want to be able to set > up the file structure with "dummy" files every 65536 blocks > so I can use the same files under both the iso file structure > and the RT-11 file structure. Mkisofs is availabla as part of the cygwin tools, but IIUC, will not do what you need. It simply builds an ISO filesystem of a list of files or a directory tree. It doesn't attempt to duplicate the file_system_ at all, ie block placement. You need a tool that reads at the raw-device level, not at the level of directories or files. Both cat and dd, used properly, can do that in Unix, but I'm not at all sure that the Windows-based cat & dd can even _see_ a raw device. If you're working with Erstz-11 container files, There might be a way to fiddle it. Something like Ghost or Drive Image might be a better solution, but I don't know if either will attempt an unrecognized filesystem, and neither is particularly cheap. Doc From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sun Jun 2 14:39:16 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: don't hook no RA90 to the internal power plug on the VAX6000 Message-ID: <3CFA7464.5000400@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, I think I haven't heard from Geoff of Oz for a while, are you still around? Came to think about Geoff because I have now blown two fuses of VAX 6000's internal 110V power hookups (the main power box has three what looks like standard 110V receptacles.) But not all of them are equal, so it seems. The one that's not reachable from the outside seems to be protected by a low-rated fuse. I suppose now that this is where the backup battery is to be hooked up an nothing else. I tried to drive an RA92 from there and it always burned the fuse when the drive spins up. I'm releaved now because initially I thought I might have destroyed the drive (some inner short because of dust and dirt.) But it's just that fuse. Too bad that I can't power the second external receptacle. It's this weird 3-phase conversion issue where you have to use the phase that connects to this internal receptacle but not both of those that connect to the two external receptacles. How did you, Geoff, hook up both of your RA9x down in your VAX6400? thanks, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From Innfogra at aol.com Sun Jun 2 15:15:01 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: Diagnosing a non-working Mac Performa 476? Message-ID: <102.16055123.2a2bd6c5@aol.com> Not being an Apple person this might not be germane. I have found differences with the cables that attach the monitor to the computer. I had one cable that plugged in but did not work. It was lighter in weight and IIRC was missing a pin. I think it worked on an IIGS but not on a LCIII I was testing. I needed the heavierweight video cable with no missing pins to get the LCIII to come up. Both came up in color but needed different cables. Don't know why. As I said I am not an Apple person, although I would love a G3 or G4 to play with. Paxton Astoria, OR From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Jun 2 15:52:35 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: don't hook no RA90 to the internal power plug on the VAX6000 References: <3CFA7464.5000400@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <002501c20a77$6db10960$89469280@y5f3q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gunther Schadow" To: "Geoff Roberts" ; ; Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 03:39 PM Subject: don't hook no RA90 to the internal power plug on the VAX6000 > Hi, > > I think I haven't heard from Geoff of Oz for a while, are you still > around? > > Came to think about Geoff because I have now blown two fuses of > VAX 6000's internal 110V power hookups (the main power box has > three what looks like standard 110V receptacles.) But not all > of them are equal, so it seems. The one that's not reachable from > the outside seems to be protected by a low-rated fuse. I suppose > now that this is where the backup battery is to be hooked up > an nothing else. I tried to drive an RA92 from there and it always > burned the fuse when the drive spins up. Hey, Gunther! My 6320 has an RA92 in the cabinet that works just fine. I converted the VAX to run on single phase, overloaded two phases onto one 120V leg inside the box where the power cord goes in. I didn't check what fuse was installed though. I can give it a look if you want. I might take you up on that 4200. Can't say for sure because I've somewhat overextended my wifes patience(sp?) with my hobby. Is there a gotta-be-gone-by date? > -Gunther Bob From jfoust at threedee.com Sun Jun 2 16:14:38 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: makeiso.exe for Windows 98 In-Reply-To: References: <3CF9AC3C.557C23C@compsys.to> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020602161259.030d49b8@pc> At 01:22 PM 6/2/2002 -0500, Doc wrote: > Mkisofs is availabla as part of the cygwin tools, but IIUC, will not >do what you need. It simply builds an ISO filesystem of a list of files >or a directory tree. It doesn't attempt to duplicate the file_system_ >at all, ie block placement. Now that I think about it, I remember posting in a thread here several months ago in a conversation with Mr. Fine that we'd determined that right-clicking on a file in Nero (?) gave you an option to set a file priority low-medium-high which in fact did place the files nearer to the start of the disc. - John From groovelists at yahoo.com Sun Jun 2 16:47:23 2002 From: groovelists at yahoo.com (Andy Berg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: Odd Quasar HHC-type handheld / What is it? :) In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020602161259.030d49b8@pc> Message-ID: <20020602214723.74717.qmail@web20508.mail.yahoo.com> Hi everyone! :) I've come into possession of a Quasar Information Processor, touting a model number of HC2000A. It's a small device, say 4"x6" or so... It is designed much like the Panasonic / Quasar HHC RL-H1x00 (ca. 1983) computer series, just is not quite as large. It also has the same ROM 'capsule' type setup as the rest of the HHC series. Beyond that, it becomes a lot different. It has 3 'ROM' capsules - English 1, Spanish 1, and Italian 1, in capsule positions L1, L2, and L3. It has a 1x16 char. blue VFD-type display. It has a small chicklet keyboard, with the letters arranged alphabetically. There are four keys on the left hand side labelled L1 through L4. There's a SHFT button, an EXT button, a PHR button, a LRN button, an F/S button, a ROT button, a SCH button, a HLD button, a C/E button, and, finally, a CLR button. Judging from the above, it seems like it might've been some sort of translation device (?) type thing made to accompany the HHC series. Alas, I've not been able to figure out how it works as of yet. It functions; I am just not sure as to what is needed for input. I've searched, but can't seem to find any reference to it anywhere. If anyone has any info about it or how to use it, I'd be much obliged if you might be able to toss it this way. Thanks! :) Andy _____________________ groovelists@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 2 17:11:03 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: What was that mystic Commodore 6509 computer? In-Reply-To: <3CF9CD18.5010606@aurora.regenstrief.org> from "Gunther Schadow" at Jun 2, 2 02:45:28 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 851 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020602/73d65763/attachment.ksh From appleone at mac.com Sun Jun 2 17:50:07 2002 From: appleone at mac.com (Steven Christensen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: Performa 476 Problem Message-ID: Brian: How about the motherboard backup battery? I've seen a couple of Macs that wouldn't display that worked fine after I replaced the battery. Check the voltage on 'em. Of course, another known working monitor would be nice for testing too. And even with no hard drive you would at least get the "flashing question mark disk" icon. Steve From dittman at dittman.net Sun Jun 2 19:16:04 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: Upgrading a VAX4000-200 to a -500, -700 etc.? In-Reply-To: <20020601205159.M11346@wintermute.4amlunch.net> from "Brian Hechinger" at Jun 01, 2002 08:51:59 PM Message-ID: <200206030016.g530G4115793@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > NetBSD's highest line of VAX is the -300 or -500, right? This is > > i though michael got it working on a 105a? those are damn fast. is the 600 > and 700 working? for some reason i though michael got them working as well. Even better, run VMS on them. The fiasco with NetBSD screwing up VAXstation 4000/90 systems was bad enough. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sun Jun 2 23:04:31 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: RA90 not releasing session on port B? How can I reset the drive? Message-ID: <3CFAEACF.3000502@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, I cleaned up my laundry/computerroom real nice. The two VAX6450s now want to talk to each other (and not just stand side-by-side :-). I have the star coupler attached to the wall, at a nice angle under the staircase, which makes it really nice to connect the CI cables. Can't wait to do IP over CI between the two. So, I copied my Ultrix disk's / and /usr partition to another drive and having connected the second VAX6k to that other drive on SDI port "B" I could actually boot it with the generic kernel and so forth. Then I found I was missing something, so I wanted to get back to the first VAX and mount that drive again to add something to it. But fron then on every attempt to mount or write to the drive from port "A" causes the WRITE PROTECT LED to lite up quickly and then the OS comes back with an I/O error on writes and a write restricted error on mounts. I can't even do mount -r that drive. I tried shutting down, spinning down, resetting, powering off and everything I just can't get the drive responding to write requests from port A any more. What is the magic here? These drives seem to have a memory that lasts even when powered off. Once I turned off the main breaker before the drives were spun down. It does sound ugly, but they all work nicely still. And I noticed that they remembered the "R" status when I powered them on again. So, how can that memory really be cleared? thanks for your help, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 00:52:47 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Cards to Identify In-Reply-To: <3CF8FA13.90CC2506@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <20020603055247.54609.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Andreas Freiherr wrote: > 3) Qbus-like board, supposedly a CPU, handles made by DEC, board is 4 > slots wide, labelled "PCS" (is that PCS CADMUS?), has Motorola > MC68000L10, 4k SRAM (2*6116), 16k EPROM (2*2764), clock chip (MM58167), > battery. Between the handles, there are two 40-pin 3M connectors (Berg > style). The EPROMs have stickers saying > > MINITOR MINITOR > R900.123 R900.123 > E9 2.200LO E10 2.200HI Without a picture, it's kinda hard to guess, but the 68000 was a common chip to use in the 1980s for a VAX peripheral (we did it on the COMBOARD, DEC did it with the DMB32, etc). If there are 1488s and 1489s near the BERG connectors, it is probably a protocol converter of some sort (like a COMBOARD or Simpact board). Otherwise, if there are any other large chips, they might reveal what this board did. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 00:54:30 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: What was that mystic Commodore 6509 computer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020603055430.62843.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > Hmm, why would the 6509 have more address space than a 6510? Or is > > Why not? There is no reason why a higher numbered chip should be > 'better'... Exactly - the 6504 is a 6502 with few address lines available to the outside. > Not at all. The ports on the 6510 are just that -- ports. You could use > them for whatever you wanted, the C64 happens to use them to control the > memory map using external circuitry. And the cassette. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From fernande at internet1.net Mon Jun 3 01:13:58 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: re-keying an RS/6000 lock? Message-ID: <3CFB0926.30700@internet1.net> I just picked up an RS/6000 7012-320H this weekend from Sean Caron. It seems complete, but I haven't tried to power it up yet. It's currently keyless. How hard would it be to re-key it to use the key from my 7013-530? I've never tried such a thing. Anybody done it, or tried it? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jun 3 01:54:48 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: re-keying an RS/6000 lock? In-Reply-To: <3CFB0926.30700@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > I just picked up an RS/6000 7012-320H this weekend from Sean Caron. It > seems complete, but I haven't tried to power it up yet. It's currently > keyless. How hard would it be to re-key it to use the key from my > 7013-530? I've never tried such a thing. Anybody done it, or tried it? As long as the switch is in the Service position, it's trivial. If you look carefully into the key slot, you can see the ends of the tumbler pins. Just drill into the side of the barrel and let the pins out. Or, replace the whole assembly with a three-position rotary switch. The wiring on the 320 lock is identical to the 530. Doc From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Mon Jun 3 02:18:20 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: don't hook no RA90 to the internal power plug on the VAX6000 References: <3CFA7464.5000400@aurora.regenstrief.org> <002501c20a77$6db10960$89469280@y5f3q8> Message-ID: <3CFB183C.9010508@aurora.regenstrief.org> Robert Schaefer wrote: > Hey, Gunther! My 6320 has an RA92 in the cabinet that works just fine. I > converted the VAX to run on single phase, overloaded two phases onto one > 120V leg inside the box where the power cord goes in. I didn't check what > fuse was installed though. I can give it a look if you want. O.K. tell me how exactly did you do your conversion? I run an RA90 in the cabinet as well, but it's connected to the upper receptacle on the back of the mains box, outside, not the one inside. I have fried two fuses of two such VAXen with this maneuver, I dare say it's reproducable, unless you may have done tricks inside the mains box. I did all my conversion simply by changing the power plug, so, I never opened the mains box, except when we were investigating the guts last year. > I might take you up on that 4200. Can't say for sure because I've somewhat > overextended my wifes patience(sp?) with my hobby. Is there a > gotta-be-gone-by date? I'll ask how long they can hold it. I also asked a parts place if they have that backplane of a -300, -400, -500, etc. If I can get it for a modest price, I will have the thing shipped, if not, I'll have them hold it for you to take on "loan" as long as they will. If it must go in a week, I'll send out a general cry for help. cheers, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From fernande at internet1.net Mon Jun 3 02:19:04 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: re-keying an RS/6000 lock? References: Message-ID: <3CFB1868.2040309@internet1.net> Doc wrote: > On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > >>I just picked up an RS/6000 7012-320H this weekend from Sean Caron. It >>seems complete, but I haven't tried to power it up yet. It's currently >>keyless. How hard would it be to re-key it to use the key from my >>7013-530? I've never tried such a thing. Anybody done it, or tried it? > > > As long as the switch is in the Service position, it's trivial. If > you look carefully into the key slot, you can see the ends of the > tumbler pins. Just drill into the side of the barrel and let the pins > out. Or, replace the whole assembly with a three-position rotary > switch. The wiring on the 320 lock is identical to the 530. > > Doc Looks like it's in the "normal" position. I can open the case and get to the whole locking mechanism. Can I take it apart and change it, so I can use my key? I'd try it, but I though that before I end up with a bunch of little parts falling all over the place I'd ask first :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Mon Jun 3 02:30:48 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: Upgrading a VAX4000-200 to a -500, -700 etc.? References: <20020601141002.66646.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> <3CF93259.6020207@aurora.regenstrief.org> <5.1.0.14.2.20020601193314.0252c0b0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <3CFB1B28.7000902@aurora.regenstrief.org> Chuck McManis wrote: > Hi Gunthar, > > Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the only way to upgrade the > 4000/200 to a 4000/705a is to replace the backplane in the chassis. The > 4000/300 and above only run in the BA430 chassis (whereas the 4000/200 > could run in the BA213 and BA215) > > Sometimes a /300 has the faster backplane, all /400's and above do. Well, Chuck, I should have payed attention to this. But at $5 purchase price I guess a 4000/200 is good enough. I just had second thoughts before paying $200 for shipping this thing. Now, suppose I could find a /300 packplane from a parts seller, how could he tell the difference between the faster/wider and the traditional Qbus one? Also, if that was clear, what accessory parts should I make sure I also get, like special cables, different power supply cables, mounting hardware, that sort of stuff? thanks, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Mon Jun 3 04:08:25 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: Microchannel Soundcards (Was: Cards to Identify) References: <3CF8FA13.90CC2506@Vishay.com> <3CF95986.6030903@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3CFB3209.2F82E2@Vishay.com> Ooops? Chad Fernandez wrote: > > If you are looking at the soundcards on Ebay that I think you are.... > aren't they RS6000 only? > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA I thought Microchannel is Microchannel, no matter which processor is somewhere on the board. Of course, if there are no drivers for any Windoze, a board alone wouldn't make my friend happy. I do know a Soundpiper _can_ be used in a PS/2 system, and I have seen an appropriate driver for WinNT 4.0 already. As long as I cannot buy these original IBM boards anyway, I didn't bother looking for their software. What other boards might be worth considering / searching for use in a 9577 Lacuna board? - We're running NT4.0 SP 5 or 6 (the machine is about 80 km or 50 miles away from me right now). -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From allain at panix.com Mon Jun 3 06:52:14 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: contact eBay References: Message-ID: <001b01c20af5$1af93480$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I've been using eBay over three years and have been defrauded twice. While I'm not really looking for a rant fest right now, what I Am looking for is an email address for contacting someone appropriate for customer service at eBay directly. Their website is obtuse enough in not giving this out easily. John A. From dave at naffnet.org.uk Mon Jun 3 07:35:47 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: contact eBay References: <001b01c20af5$1af93480$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3CFB62A3.C8A97804@naffnet.org.uk> John Allain wrote: > I've been using eBay over three years and have been > defrauded twice. While I'm not really looking for a rant > fest right now, what I Am looking for is an email address > for contacting someone appropriate for customer service > at eBay directly. Their website is obtuse enough in not > giving this out easily. > > John A. Hi John, Try http://webhelp.ebay.com/cgi-bin/eHNC/query-ebay-rs.tcl?area=transaction&subarea=transaction_fraud&rcode=431400011000000&flag1=1&flag2=3&flag3=1&subjecttier1=Transaction+Problems&subjecttier2=Fraud+Resolution&Query=I+want+to+file+a+Fraud+Complaint. and hit the Contact Support button at the bottom of the screen. This will take you to an email form that you can use to report the problem. Dave. From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Mon Jun 3 08:23:50 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Cards to Identify References: <20020603055247.54609.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3CFB6DE6.E6938037@Vishay.com> Ethan, yes, I also remember having seen PDP-11/VAX peripherals controlled by a 68000. However, with this board, I am not quite sure if it is Qbus or UNIBUS at all. I'd have to trace the connections, but before doing so, my suspicion is that this was some different kind of system with the Motorola centipede being the main processor. And, no, I did not notice any particular driver chips like the 1488/1489 (or maybe 75188/75189, or some of those 8-pin chips from the DLV-11/J, or...). The absence of such chips together with the large number of pins makes me think this might be a separate memory bus, similar to what the MicroVAX II had. On the other hand, it is still possible that there once was another part of the subsystem, like a distribution panel, which may have included the level shifter chips. But then again, there are no other large chips, other than those mentioned, on the board. Everything else is like SN74... Sorry for making the task of guessing so hard, I think it's time to get a digital camera. I hesitate because I don't have access to any computer with a working USB to upload the pics, and this application alone wouldn't justify buying Win2000. Andreas Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Andreas Freiherr wrote: > > > 3) Qbus-like board, supposedly a CPU, handles made by DEC, board is 4 > > slots wide, labelled "PCS" (is that PCS CADMUS?), has Motorola > > MC68000L10, 4k SRAM (2*6116), 16k EPROM (2*2764), clock chip (MM58167), > > battery. Between the handles, there are two 40-pin 3M connectors (Berg > > style). The EPROMs have stickers saying > > > > MINITOR MINITOR > > R900.123 R900.123 > > E9 2.200LO E10 2.200HI > > Without a picture, it's kinda hard to guess, but the 68000 was a common > chip to use in the 1980s for a VAX peripheral (we did it on the COMBOARD, > DEC did it with the DMB32, etc). > > If there are 1488s and 1489s near the BERG connectors, it is probably > a protocol converter of some sort (like a COMBOARD or Simpact board). > Otherwise, if there are any other large chips, they might reveal what > this board did. > > -ethan > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Jun 3 08:54:04 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: Osborne 1 Video Adapter? (was:RE: IBM 026 Printing Card Punch ) Message-ID: AFIK, OCC never sold a composite adaptor themselves. The one I had was a Monadapt by JMM (?). I also have a copy of the Osborne 1 Technical Manual (Thom Hogan and Mike Iannamico, copyright 1982). It describes the video circuit, with schematics for the edge connector and brightness/comtrast pots, but it does not have a schematic for a composite adaptor. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Joe [mailto:rigdonj@cfl.rr.com] Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 7:15 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org; acme_ent@bellsouth.net Subject: Re: Osborne 1 Video Adapter? (was:RE: IBM 026 Printing Card Punch) Glen, Didn't I give you the Ozzy Technical manual? I think they describe their version in there and I think they even include a schematic. IIRC there's nothing in it except for two connectors and a transistor. I believe it replaces the "Do Not Remove" plug on the front of the Ozzy. Joe At 01:02 AM 5/30/02 -0400, you wrote: >> From: Feldman, Robert > >> I was looking through the Alltronics listings and noticed a TTL-Composite >> video adaptor (http://www.alltronics.com/computer_miscellaneous.htm , >> #92C024) that looks like the adaptor I have for my Osborne 1! > >Robert -- > >Please tell me more about this adapter. I like my Oz 1 but hate the >screen. Where does it connect to the Oz? > >Glen >0/0 > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jun 3 09:23:29 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: re-keying an RS/6000 lock? In-Reply-To: <3CFB1868.2040309@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Looks like it's in the "normal" position. I can open the case and get > to the whole locking mechanism. Can I take it apart and change it, so I > can use my key? I'd try it, but I though that before I end up with a > bunch of little parts falling all over the place I'd ask first :-) The problem is the little blue plastic "extension". I haven't ever gotten that off in a way that it would securely reattach. If you're willing to try that, you can remove the tumbler barrel itself from the threaded sleeve and remove the pins by way of a little brass tongue in a keyway. You could rekey it or leave the pins out. The spring action in turning the lock will still be there. Very careful application of Krazy Glue has worked for me, getting the plastic back on. Another, third option is to simply leave the lock as is, get the "Service" mode pinout from the 530, and just disconnect the lock & short the appropriate pins when you need to install. My boss does that with his 370. Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jun 3 09:37:30 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: Microchannel Soundcards (Was: Cards to Identify) In-Reply-To: <3CFB3209.2F82E2@Vishay.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > I thought Microchannel is Microchannel, no matter which processor is > somewhere on the board. Of course, if there are no drivers for any > Windoze, a board alone wouldn't make my friend happy. Yes, it's a driver/ADF problem. Ultimedia (RS/6000) cards are rare, though. Maybe I should grab one for my 7013-530. ;) > What other boards might be worth considering / searching for use in a > 9577 Lacuna board? - We're running NT4.0 SP 5 or 6 (the machine is about > 80 km or 50 miles away from me right now). Creative Labs made at least 2 models that work, but I don't have the P/N at hand. Doc From fernande at internet1.net Mon Jun 3 09:56:34 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: contact eBay References: <001b01c20af5$1af93480$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3CFB83A2.1040007@internet1.net> John Allain wrote: > I've been using eBay over three years and have been > defrauded twice. While I'm not really looking for a rant > fest right now, what I Am looking for is an email address > for contacting someone appropriate for customer service > at eBay directly. Their website is obtuse enough in not > giving this out easily. > > John A. John, I know what you mean. They seem to want to channel everything into specific catagories using web forms. Unfortunetly, I deleted all of my email from ebay, so I can't help. Sorry, Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Mon Jun 3 10:01:13 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: Microchannel Soundcards (Was: Cards to Identify) References: <3CF8FA13.90CC2506@Vishay.com> <3CF95986.6030903@internet1.net> <3CFB3209.2F82E2@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <3CFB84B9.3060502@internet1.net> Andreas Freiherr wrote: > I thought Microchannel is Microchannel, no matter which processor is > somewhere on the board. Of course, if there are no drivers for any > Windoze, a board alone wouldn't make my friend happy. There are PS/2 Microchannel cards and RS/6000 Microchannel cards. Very few will work with both. > > I do know a Soundpiper _can_ be used in a PS/2 system, and I have seen > an appropriate driver for WinNT 4.0 already. As long as I cannot buy > these original IBM boards anyway, I didn't bother looking for their > software. Go here.... scroll down to the sound card section. http://ohlandl.original.justdied.com/ > > What other boards might be worth considering / searching for use in a > 9577 Lacuna board? - We're running NT4.0 SP 5 or 6 (the machine is about > 80 km or 50 miles away from me right now). I don't havt any Microchannel sound card experience, but the above page should tell you all you need to know. I do know Creative Labs Sound Blasters tend to go for high dollars on Ebay :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From arlen.michaels at sympatico.ca Mon Jun 3 10:15:48 2002 From: arlen.michaels at sympatico.ca (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: Diagnosing a non-working Mac Performa 476? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > From: Brian Chase > > When I power up the system, with monitor attached, the internal cooling > fan spins up, the hard drive spins up (and sounds normal), and the > machine chimes what I seem to recall as being the regular start up sound > for this era of Mac. However, the display remains dark. Brian, Make sure you have a VRAM simm installed in the rightmost socket on the motherboard. Arlen Michaels From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Jun 3 10:17:08 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: Diagnosing a non-working Mac Performa 476? Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E017846CC@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Chase [mailto:vaxzilla@jarai.org] > When I power up the system, with monitor attached, the > internal cooling > fan spins up, the hard drive spins up (and sounds normal), and the > machine chimes what I seem to recall as being the regular > start up sound > for this era of Mac. However, the display remains dark. If > I power off > the Mac, leaving the monitor on, the monitor makes a light > static/crackle noise; it's the sort of sound I normally > associate with a > monitor that's lost the video input signal. I've played with the > brightness and contrast controls without any success. Would you believe that the whole thing may be working? ;) First thing to do would be re-initialize the "parameter RAM." Hit command-alt-p-r on power up. (I have seen corrupted PR cause this kind of problem.) There are also a couple of things that you can (very safely) reset with other hot-keys. You'll have to look them up, though. You might check to see if there's any flash or what not on the monitor when the computer comes on. If the monitor has a power-save mode, and starts up that way, does it turn on at all? ... but now that I read the next paragraph :) > If I switch the other monitor, the behavior is the same. If I switch > from the orginal motherboard to the one I purchased on eBay, the > behavior is the same. It's possible both monitors are bad and/or both Very strange. What's common between the two boards? Do you have, or can you get, a known-good monitor? Are you using the same RAM in both boards? That could be suspect. If you've been plugging the drives back into the board, don't. Take everything out -- including un-used cables -- except what's absolutely necessary. Try again that way. > motherboards are bad. I don't have a multimeter to verify that the > voltages coming out of the PS are correct. Nor do I know This is also a problem. Just a stab in the dark, try blowing the board out. I've seen some strange dust-bunny related problems with macs. :) Make sure there's no way the board can short itself out to ground somewhere... ... and get a multimeter. > that the hard > drive is functional--but I'd assume that nothing needs to be > loaded from > the HD in order to get the display to come up. Nope, but again, take it out, and the floppy, and whatever else (boards, etc) you can. Bad hardware makes computers do funny things. > I'm a bit puzzled, and wondering if anyone here with insight on these > Macs and their displays can give me any additional pointers. Err -- you could also get an adaptor to plug a vga monitor in, and use a monitor you know works, to eliminate that possibility. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' -------------- next part -------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this message is proprietary of Amdocs, protected from disclosure, and may be privileged. The information is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s) of the message. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, use, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From fernande at internet1.net Mon Jun 3 10:26:13 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: re-keying an RS/6000 lock? References: Message-ID: <3CFB8A95.2020202@internet1.net> Doc wrote: > The problem is the little blue plastic "extension". I haven't ever > gotten that off in a way that it would securely reattach. If you're > willing to try that, you can remove the tumbler barrel itself from the > threaded sleeve and remove the pins by way of a little brass tongue in a > keyway. You could rekey it or leave the pins out. The spring action in > turning the lock will still be there. Very careful application of > Krazy Glue has worked for me, getting the plastic back on. I may try that. I'll let people now if I successfully get it to work. > Another, third option is to simply leave the lock as is, get the > "Service" mode pinout from the 530, and just disconnect the lock & short > the appropriate pins when you need to install. My boss does that with > his 370. The lock was unplugged when I got the machine. I'm not sure if it was on purpose, However. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From arlen.michaels at sympatico.ca Mon Jun 3 10:29:13 2002 From: arlen.michaels at sympatico.ca (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: Diagnosing a non-working Mac Performa 476? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > From: Arlen Michaels > > Make sure you have a VRAM simm installed in the rightmost socket on the > motherboard. Actually, on second thought I believe the LC475 requires a _pair_ of VRAM simm's. Arlen Michaels From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Jun 3 10:26:47 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: MS-DOS CD Burning Software and MAKEISO Message-ID: I wasn't following the thread closely, and have deleted the posts, but I want to add to the thread about burning ISO format CD's. I just ran across the following URL on another list. They sell ($39.00) MS-DOS based CR-ROM burning software (16-bit and 32-bit), including a MAKEISO program, that might be of interest. http://goldenhawk.com/dos_body.htm Bob From fernande at internet1.net Mon Jun 3 10:32:50 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: Commodore 128 LED re-install??? References: Message-ID: <3CFB8C22.4050106@internet1.net> Tony Duell wrote: > I've just taken my C128 apart to check. It's not that obvious. Yes, I know :-) > > You should have a little plastic LED holder thing. It's U-shaped with a > little tab on the 'bottom'. The one in my machine is black, but the > colour shouldn't matter, so this might be the clear plastic part you have. U-shaped?? Hmm, maybe the little clear plastic thing I have is only part of it :-( I may have to resort to tape :-( The next problem I have is this..... It seems to want to show me it's registers whenever I try using it now. I'll start typing in a short counting program, and all of a sudden it will beep and show me the registers. It doesn't turn on very reliably either..... it gets power but I have to try a few times to get the proper display. Any ideas? I though maybe reseating the chips may do it, but I haven't had the time yet. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Mon Jun 3 10:49:34 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: DEC SDI drives References: <20020601141002.66646.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> <3CF93259.6020207@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <3CFB900E.CAA2845B@Vishay.com> Gunther, sure, this is one of the fine moments that you can enjoy as a collector: :-) Gunther Schadow wrote: > > Right, I have one RA81 and one RA82 and that's all I can/want to fit. > I do like SDI disks though. RA90s are my standard disks for my VAX > 6000s and they are fun. The nice thing about RA82s is that you can > show them to people and say that they have almost the same capacity > as a CD ROM drive (and they have the same shape, only scaled by a > factor of, let's say, 8 to 10. Then you can open the hood just like > in my car, check the alternator belt and I just haven't found the > oil dip stick yet :-). My trouble with it is that the "hood" always bounces back on the rear part of my head, because the pressurized gas retainers have lost their magic smoke in the cause of the years. I am convinced it's impossible and perhaps even dangerous to repair (i.e., to repressurize) them, but is there a known good source for spare parts? Without looking: are these parts the same type in a RA80 and in a RA82? I don't want headaches every time I adjust belt tension... -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Mon Jun 3 11:14:12 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: drive "hood" parts[was: RE: DEC SDI drives] Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014679D0@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Andreas Freiherr > > Gunther Schadow wrote: > > > > ... Then you can open the hood just like > > in my car, check the alternator belt and I just haven't found the > > oil dip stick yet :-). > > My trouble with it is that the "hood" always bounces back on the rear > part of my head, because the pressurized gas retainers have lost their > magic smoke in the cause of the years. I am convinced it's impossible > and perhaps even dangerous to repair (i.e., to repressurize) them, but > is there a known good source for spare parts? > > Without looking: are these parts the same type in a RA80 and in a RA82? > > I don't want headaches every time I adjust belt tension... > > -- > (continuing the automobile analogy...) How big are the gas shocks? Anything like the ones that hold up a hatchback in car? Auto part places like JCWhitney.com sell replacements... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Jun 3 11:23:50 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: drive "hood" parts[was: RE: DEC SDI drives] Message-ID: Come to think of it, the gas shocks do somewhat remind me of the ones on the rear gate of my subaru station wagon... or on the hood of a BMW... hmm... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon Jun 3 11:21:41 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:56 2005 Subject: sorce of computer recyclers Message-ID: <3CFB9795.1DF1C03B@ccp.com> I just came acrtoss this ---- there might be some good sources in here for goodies. My gold mine in Topeka is part of this list, so I'm betting on at least a couple more . . . . . http://www.recycle.net/computer/used/index.html Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Mon Jun 3 11:38:11 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: sorce of computer recyclers Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014679D1@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Gary Hildebrand > > I just came acrtoss this ---- there might be some good sources in here > for goodies. My gold mine in Topeka is part of this list, so I'm > betting on at least a couple more . . . . . > > > http://www.recycle.net/computer/used/index.html > > Seems like a decent resource... Did you happen to notice the Titan Trailers ad/link at the bottm of the page? ;) -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From foo at siconic.com Mon Jun 3 11:34:06 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: Airport screening (was Re: KC/Topeka prowling with Mr. Rigdon) In-Reply-To: <20020602053949.NUUT1231.imf06bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Jun 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > No offense, Sellam, but this only seems natural to me. I'm sure the > airport security checks have gotten a bit tiresome, but we recently were > attacked by Arab Muslims, and several thousand people died. If we'd been > attacked by Irishmen I'm sure we'd be taking a harder look at them, too. This is completely flawed logic but I'll take this discussion off-list to explain why. This discussion doesn't belong but I wanted to express at least that much publicly. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Jun 3 11:39:33 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: ".gz" files References: <3.0.2.32.20020525104129.00f26f14@pop1.epm.net.co> <3CF58FF4.FD84F652@compsys.to> Message-ID: <00df01c20b1d$4b1c7af0$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Jerome wrote.... > When I attempt to run wget, I receive the error response file: > --17:49:29-- http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/rt11freewarev2.iso.gz > => `rt11freewarev2.iso.gz' > Connecting to www.classiccmp.org:80... connected! > HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 403 Forbidden > 17:49:31 ERROR 403: Forbidden. > > Eventually, I somehow got the idea to try: > wget -b > http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/freeware-CDS/images/rt11freewarev2.is o.gz > > which is the address of the actual file rather than a pointer - ok, here's the scoop - the files were not supposed to be at /PDP-11/rt11freewarev2.iso.gz. The files that showed up there were some test files that I was running and I accidentally left them on the server. The only location that people should use is the second one that Jerome lists above that has the full path. Thanks! Jay West From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jun 3 12:14:36 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: what the heck is this? Apple II Adaptive Firmware Card Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020603121436.51af43c6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi, I recently picked up a card and external box for the Apple II. Both say Don Johnson Development Equipment Inc Adaptive Firmware Card and the box also says I/O Box. The box connects to the card via two short ribbon cables and has a 36 pin male Centronics style connector, two banana jack sockets, rocker switch and a LED on it. I picked this up in Topeka, does anyone know what it is? Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jun 3 12:28:23 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: contact eBay In-Reply-To: <001b01c20af5$1af93480$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020603122823.51af9a1a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> John, You can e-mail them at and but in my experience it's a waste of time. They don't even bother to read the complete message before they make some idiodic reply. Joe At 07:52 AM 6/3/02 -0400, you wrote: > I've been using eBay over three years and have been >defrauded twice. While I'm not really looking for a rant >fest right now, what I Am looking for is an email address >for contacting someone appropriate for customer service >at eBay directly. Their website is obtuse enough in not >giving this out easily. > >John A. > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jun 3 12:52:51 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: KC/Topeka prowling with Mr. Rigdon In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20020601115942.3ed7eb74@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020603125251.19073434@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:18 PM 6/1/02 -0700, Sellam wrote: > > >Whoever tells you the checks are "random" and not based on ethnicity or >appearance is just trying to be PC. Some are random but many aren't. I stayed an extra day in KC and changed my reservation with Delta two days beforehand but somehow they lost the record of it. Because of that I arrived at the airport without a confirmed reservation and that's what earned me the "full treatment". But what really pissed me off was having to go through a complete check then walking 30 feet and having to go through the same thing again before I could get on the plane. The second check is a complete waste of time (mine AND security's) IMO. I'm sure there is a bit of randomness >involved, but that's for the non-Arab, non-Muslim flying contingent. As much as you may not like to, you have to admit that 100% of the 9/11 hijackers were Arabs and Muslim so people that fit that description are going to be closely checked for a long time to come, PC or not. I know you don't like it, neither do I, but you can blame the Arab Muslim extremists and not the airlines for that. >There's only been one time out of perhaps ten where I didn't have to go >through the extra pre-boarding check before a flight. I'm convinced that >me and my peeps get red flagged and added to the "check thoroughly" pool >as soon as we step in the airport, and other "regular" folk are just >thrown into the pool at random to make it look like "we" aren't being >targeted. > >Welcome to the New America. Wouldn't Joe McCarthy love it! Joe From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Jun 3 12:03:15 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: HP 1000 E-Series Message-ID: Since I got nothing from posting to CCTech, I'll try CCTalk... Ok, I was feeling brave so I stuck power into the sucker and turned it on.. no magic smoke or burnt smell, lol, but I'm wondering if its normal for the extend light and the rox of lights for the registers yo light up and stay lit up. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jun 3 12:04:13 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: locating shorts Re: HP ScanJet ADF Message-ID: <200206031704.KAA04300@clulw009.amd.com> >From: Joe > > >>Probably a shorted decoupling capacitor (if it's a 'dead short' or close >>to one). I have been known to carefully cut power traces to find out >>which section is shorted, and then home in on the problem. > > That's the way that I've traced shorts down. However since then I've bought a HP Current probe, they're supposed to be able to trace a short down the correct path. I've never had a need for it since I bought it so I dont know how well it works. Has anyone had any experience using one? Hi I've used a current probe a number of years ago and found it worked OK for trace short, when they were accessable on the surface. I've since found a method that works fine for me, using standard bench top items. You need a 4 or 5 voltmeter that has at least a 200 uV range and a current limiting power supply. What you do is to place about a 1 amp current from end to end of the curcuit that is shorted to another curcuit. Do not place the 1 amp through the short. This will generally create a 20-100 uV drop across the curcuit. Now, clip one lead of the meter on the other curcuit ( the one that this curcuit is shorted to ). With the remaining lead, trace along the curcuit with the current flowing through it. When you get to the point where the short is, the voltage will be zero. On either side, the voltage will be plus or minus, telling you which way to go. Check the meter regularly for offset by connecting both meter leads together. This will help you especially when you get close. For curcuits with branches, you may need to move where you put your end to end current to follow another branch. This method also works for power planes. Say there is a bypass cap that is shorted someplace. Place the current source on opposite corners of the board and trace until you have a line ( usually curved ) across the board that measure zero ( I usually tape a piece of string along this line ). Move the current source to the other corners. Again, find the line. Where the lines cross, you'll find the short. There are variations of this method that I've used to find multiple shorts. Dwight From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jun 3 13:11:06 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: drive "hood" parts[was: RE: DEC SDI drives] In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014679D0@yalepress3.unipre ss.yale.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020603131106.61278b68@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:14 PM 6/3/02 -0400, you wrote: >> From: Andreas Freiherr >> >> Gunther Schadow wrote: >> > >> > ... Then you can open the hood just like >> > in my car, check the alternator belt and I just haven't found the >> > oil dip stick yet :-). >> >> My trouble with it is that the "hood" always bounces back on the rear >> part of my head, because the pressurized gas retainers have lost their >> magic smoke in the cause of the years. I am convinced it's impossible >> and perhaps even dangerous to repair (i.e., to repressurize) them, but >> is there a known good source for spare parts? Auto parts houses carry replacement struts. I bought a pair from Discount Auto Parts. I think the cost was less than $8 each but that was a couple of years ago. Joe From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jun 3 12:16:22 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: re-keying an RS/6000 lock? In-Reply-To: <3CFB1868.2040309@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Looks like it's in the "normal" position. I can open the case and get > to the whole locking mechanism. Can I take it apart and change it, so I > can use my key? I'd try it, but I though that before I end up with a > bunch of little parts falling all over the place I'd ask first :-) 1. Does the key that you want to rekey it to fit the keyway? Changing a lock to use a different keyway requires some sophisticated milling. 2. Does the lock use pin tumblers or wafers? Wafer locks can usually be disassembled/reassembled without special tools. For pin tumbler locks, you'll probably want a plug follower of the right diameter (hint: look at drill bit shanks as an easy source of various diameters) If you can remove the lock completely, then you have the option of handing the entire task oer to a locksmith, who has experience doing it. It usually isn't very expensive. The hard part with most "cam locks" is getting the cam off and back on, since they are often designed without an intent of later servicing. From fernande at internet1.net Mon Jun 3 12:18:28 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: contact eBay References: <3.0.6.16.20020603122823.51af9a1a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3CFBA4E4.7010001@internet1.net> Joe wrote: > John, > > You can e-mail them at and but in my experience it's a waste of time. They don't even bother to read the complete message before they make some idiodic reply. > > Joe That's been my experience too. You have to ask them very clear, short, to the point questions, and only one per email. They tend to give generic pat answers, usually directing you to something on the web page that you can easily access without contacting them! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Jun 3 12:17:29 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: HP 1000 E-Series References: Message-ID: <012101c20b22$8cb08f10$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Will wrote... > smoke or burnt smell, lol, but I'm wondering if its normal for the extend > light and the rox of lights for the registers yo light up and stay lit up. I've had my head in my 2100's for so long I'm a bit foggy on the 21MX machines. But if memory serves, the lights should all come on, but then it should start a diagnostic from firmware and you should see the rightmost lights counting up low memory. If you never see this, it indicates a memory problem most likely. The first thing to check is those ribbon connectors inside the front that daisychain all the memory cards. I'd suggest taking them off and cleaning the connectors and edge card traces with a good gold contact cleaner, then reseating carefully and try again. I seem to recall that one of my 21mx's took a good 4 minutes or so before it started the memory test. I also seem to recall that if the machines had the power fail restart option, if memory wasn't maintained due to a dead battery or something that the machine would come up in a strange state and you had to do something wierd like turn the machine on while holding store or something like that. If you still have trouble, I'll look up that procedure for you. Hope this helps. Jay West From winnderfish_falls at yahoo.com Sun Jun 2 18:18:49 2002 From: winnderfish_falls at yahoo.com (David G.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: Wanted: Kaypro 2'84/2x Message-ID: <20020602231849.77314.qmail@web9807.mail.yahoo.com> My Kaypro 2'84 died. I need a replacement as this was the only CP/M machine for the display. A donation of a working 2'84 or 2x would be greatly apreciated, after all it is going towards education. Thanks, David G. winnderfish_falls@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From fdebros at verizon.net Sun Jun 2 22:25:28 2002 From: fdebros at verizon.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: VRE01 woes In-Reply-To: <02053022430000.01281@sputnik> Message-ID: <002201c20aae$4f3473a0$6501a8c0@fred> Haha Fred\ -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ron Hudson Sent: Friday, 31 May, 2002 01.43 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: VRE01 woes On Thursday 30 May 2002 02:11 pm, you wrote: > The trouble is the VRE01 is kind of flickery with about 12 vertical > areas top to bottom that seem to "shimmy" slightly in -bpp16. no you > cannot run --bpp8 for a single card. And not --bpp4 or 2 either in that > server. > fred Try moving the monitors a little further apart. :^) From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Jun 3 12:13:54 2002 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: Upgrading a VAX4000-200 to a -500, -700 etc.? In-Reply-To: <3CFB1B28.7000902@aurora.regenstrief.org> References: <20020601141002.66646.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> <3CF93259.6020207@aurora.regenstrief.org> <5.1.0.14.2.20020601193314.0252c0b0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020603101238.02a90250@209.185.79.193> Well the cool thing is if you get the CPU and memory you can "upgrade" you MicroVAX II to a much faster box! :-) And postage should be affordable. Now I don't generally like to see working systems parted out but a KA660 (that is the VAX 4000/200 CPU) for $5 is a great deal. --Chuck At 02:30 AM 6/3/02 -0500, Gunther Schadow wrote: >Chuck McManis wrote: > >>Hi Gunthar, >>Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the only way to upgrade the >>4000/200 to a 4000/705a is to replace the backplane in the chassis. The >>4000/300 and above only run in the BA430 chassis (whereas the 4000/200 >>could run in the BA213 and BA215) >>Sometimes a /300 has the faster backplane, all /400's and above do. > > >Well, Chuck, I should have payed attention to this. But at $5 >purchase price I guess a 4000/200 is good enough. I just had >second thoughts before paying $200 for shipping this thing. >Now, suppose I could find a /300 packplane from a parts seller, >how could he tell the difference between the faster/wider and >the traditional Qbus one? Also, if that was clear, what accessory >parts should I make sure I also get, like special cables, >different power supply cables, mounting hardware, that sort of >stuff? > >thanks, >-Gunther > > > > >-- >Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org >Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care >Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine >tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org > > From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Mon Jun 3 12:22:59 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: Microchannel Soundcards (Was: Cards to Identify) References: Message-ID: <3CFBA5F3.E20C3D24@Vishay.com> Doc, according to the Web site Chad suggested*, there is the CT2501 (Reply SB16), with or without SCSI, and the CT5320-B / CT5330 (SB MCV / SBPro MCV). Makes exactly the two families that you remember. But they are said to be second choice due to limitations in the MCA implementation (DMA timing, bus timeouts, etc.), especially in "faster" PS/2 systems. Doc wrote: > Creative Labs made at least 2 models that work, but I don't have the > P/N at hand. If only I could download the actual board (beam it down, Scotty)! - Sigh! -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com * Chad, thanks for pointing me back to this valuable site: without this information, the machine would never have gotten the genuine IBM 64MB ECC RAM upgrade that is now part of it. However, I used to have a different link which didn't work any more and was deleted from my bookmarks. From fernande at internet1.net Mon Jun 3 12:28:54 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: re-keying an RS/6000 lock? References: Message-ID: <3CFBA756.5030904@internet1.net> Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > 1. Does the key that you want to rekey it to fit the keyway? > Changing a lock to use a different keyway requires some sophisticated > milling. Yes, it fits. The key is from a 7013-530, that I still own, and want to use. I'd like it to fit my new aquired 7012-320H, as well. > > 2. Does the lock use pin tumblers or wafers? Not sure on that. Someone else has mentioned pins, but I haven't verified that. > Wafer locks can usually be disassembled/reassembled without special tools. > For pin tumbler locks, you'll probably want a plug follower of the right > diameter (hint: look at drill bit shanks as an easy source of various > diameters) okay. > > If you can remove the lock completely, then you have the option of handing > the entire task oer to a locksmith, who has experience doing it. It > usually isn't very expensive. That had crossed my mind. I may do that if I can safely remove it..... haven't tried yet, just asking questions so far. > > The hard part with most "cam locks" is getting the cam off and back on, > since they are often designed without an intent of later servicing. Lot's of stuff is designed that way, unfortunately :-( Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Mon Jun 3 12:33:23 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: Microchannel Soundcards (Was: Cards to Identify) References: <3CFBA5F3.E20C3D24@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <3CFBA863.80800@internet1.net> Andreas Freiherr wrote: > * Chad, thanks for pointing me back to this valuable site: without this > information, the machine would never have gotten the genuine IBM 64MB > ECC RAM upgrade that is now part of it. However, I used to have a > different link which didn't work any more and was deleted from my > bookmarks. Louis's interestes have changed direction towards the PC RT and RS/6000. His new main page reflects this, but his old Ardent Tools is still maintained, at least statically. Here's his new page if you have any interest: http://webpages.charter.net/ohlandl/ It's where the Ardent Tool used to reside. Maybe your bookmark was one of the mirrors..... they don't always work. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Jun 3 12:36:17 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: [OT] Need 7 segment displays... In-Reply-To: <012101c20b22$8cb08f10$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: I'm trying to find some VERY small 7 segment displays. I need a part that's small enough that 5 digits will fit into an inch long area. I'm not having any luck and I'm hoping someone here might know where I can find them. Thanks! g. From quapla at xs4all.nl Mon Jun 3 12:39:55 2002 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] PDP-11/60 in UK on eBay References: Message-ID: <3CFBA9EB.2DFE5B40@xs4all.nl> > They also appear to have parted out a > VAX 8650 and a PDP-11/70 too. OTOH it seems > to be reasonably common practice when > acquiring the Nth large machine to strip > the useful bits (boards, cables, cab kits, > PSUs etc.) and ditch the cabinet to save > on storage costs. So maybe these boards > have been out of a machine for quite a > while now. > Not directly. Last year they decommisioned 90 running 11/70's, of which almost all of them have been sold to organisations who are still using them. In fact, my first 11/70 I have at home does come from them, and this particular machine came from a British Naval education department where it apparently was used to run a submarine simulator. The original configuration was a cpu, a mos memory box and an RX02. (Yes, the software was apparently on just 2 floppies!) I was at their place last Friday, and I have seen the 11/60. It looks pretty clean to me, and besides the missing panel it looks rather good. It's a bit big for me, and the cabinet type makes it a bit difficult for me to use/move/lift.... There was also a VAX 9000 to be seen, and according to the info I got, there seems to be only 35 of them made (and I have a piece of the processor). Oh, and no, I'm not affiliated to them, but happen to be a happy customer. Ed -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.groenenberg.net | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Kilometerheffing : De overheid '97 TL1000S | weet waar je bent geweest! From foo at siconic.com Mon Jun 3 13:06:10 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: OT about airport security In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020603125251.19073434@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Joe wrote: > I'm sure there is a bit of randomness > >involved, but that's for the non-Arab, non-Muslim flying contingent. > > As much as you may not like to, you have to admit that 100% of the > 9/11 hijackers were Arabs and Muslim so people that fit that description > are going to be closely checked for a long time to come, PC or not. I > know you don't like it, neither do I, but you can blame the Arab Muslim > extremists and not the airlines for that. Ok, I didn't want to have to make a thread about this, but... You may not like it, but 100% of the guys who blew up the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City were White and Christian. So how come we aren't insisting on checking the backgrounds of every white Christian that tries to rent a U-Haul or buy fertilizer? (Sounds like de ja vue, right? It is, I've said this before.) > >Welcome to the New America. > > Wouldn't Joe McCarthy love it! Is it not ironic that the FBI headquarters building in Washington, D.C. is named after J. Edgar Hoover, one of the most un-American people ever to be called an "American"? Replies should go to private e-mail. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jim at jkearney.com Mon Jun 3 13:08:43 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: [OT] Need 7 segment displays... References: Message-ID: <017f01c20b29$b2b7a660$1301090a@xpace.net> >From: "Gene Buckle" > I'm trying to find some VERY small 7 segment displays. I need a part > that's small enough that 5 digits will fit into an inch long area. I'm > not having any luck and I'm hoping someone here might know where I can > find them. I don't know where to find them, but LED calculators in the 70's sometimes used 4 digit modules with a DIP-16 form factor. They looked like 4 bubbles on top of a lead frame. That would make them about 3/4" for four; but I'm not sure how you'd get 5 unless you could also find a 'single'. Not very helpful, I know, but perhaps a step in the right direction... From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Jun 3 13:26:03 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: OT about airport security In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20020603125251.19073434@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020603132321.032b5138@pc> At 11:06 AM 6/3/2002 -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: >You may not like it, but 100% of the guys who blew up the Murrah Federal >Building in Oklahoma City were White and Christian. So how come we aren't >insisting on checking the backgrounds of every white Christian that tries >to rent a U-Haul or buy fertilizer? Actually, they were tracking ammonium nitrate fertilizer purchases before Murrah, not to mention dynamite tagging and watching bulk-purchases of the ingredients to make crystal meth. So are the body cavity searches done by cute ex-flight attendants? - John From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jun 3 13:30:45 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: re-keying an RS/6000 lock? In-Reply-To: <3CFBA756.5030904@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > 2. Does the lock use pin tumblers or wafers? > > Not sure on that. Someone else has mentioned pins, but I haven't > verified that. Definitely pins. I've, um, "generalized" enough of these to know. > > If you can remove the lock completely, then you have the option of handing > > the entire task oer to a locksmith, who has experience doing it. It > > usually isn't very expensive. > > That had crossed my mind. I may do that if I can safely remove it..... > haven't tried yet, just asking questions so far. http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/pseries/library/hardware_docs /sa38/380545.pdf Mind the line wrap. Page 3-48 describes removing the lock. Wonderful general hardware ref for your 7012. Doc From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Jun 3 13:30:02 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: [OT] Need 7 segment displays... Message-ID: http://www.allelectronics.com/matrix/7_Segment_Displays.html 0.3" character height, red or green. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Kearney [mailto:jim@jkearney.com] Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 1:09 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: [OT] Need 7 segment displays... >From: "Gene Buckle" > I'm trying to find some VERY small 7 segment displays. I need a part > that's small enough that 5 digits will fit into an inch long area. I'm > not having any luck and I'm hoping someone here might know where I can > find them. I don't know where to find them, but LED calculators in the 70's sometimes used 4 digit modules with a DIP-16 form factor. They looked like 4 bubbles on top of a lead frame. That would make them about 3/4" for four; but I'm not sure how you'd get 5 unless you could also find a 'single'. Not very helpful, I know, but perhaps a step in the right direction... From allain at panix.com Mon Jun 3 13:36:41 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: NPR: "Radio Row" References: <3CFBA9EB.2DFE5B40@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <003f01c20b2d$9b1d0780$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> NPR is broadcasting a show on "Radio Row" today. This was the 'Fry's' for the tube era, 1945->1965. It's on on 4:30 for me. "From the early 1920s through much of the 1960s, Lower Manhattan was the place to go to buy a radio. A six-block area around Cortland Street was filled with stores selling electronics. That was before the city chose that spot for a major project called the World Trade Center. Monday on All Things Considered, the Lost and Found Sound Sonic Memorial Project takes us back to the place once known as "Radio Row." http://www.npr.org/programs/atc/index.html Mon., June 3, 2002 John A. From sloboyko at yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 13:48:19 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: [OT] Need 7 segment displays... In-Reply-To: <017f01c20b29$b2b7a660$1301090a@xpace.net> Message-ID: <20020603184819.40627.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com> I'm familiar with many surplus sources, and these actually are quite difficult to find. You might have to take apart an old calculator or something similar to get one. I have a few displays like this that you might use; contact me off-list if you want one. --- Jim Kearney wrote: > > >From: "Gene Buckle" > > I'm trying to find some VERY small 7 segment > displays. I need a part > > that's small enough that 5 digits will fit into an > inch long area. I'm > > not having any luck and I'm hoping someone here > might know where I can > > find them. > > I don't know where to find them, but LED calculators > in the 70's sometimes > used 4 digit modules with a DIP-16 form factor. > They looked like 4 bubbles > on top of a lead frame. That would make them about > 3/4" for four; but I'm > not sure how you'd get 5 unless you could also find > a 'single'. > > Not very helpful, I know, but perhaps a step in the > right direction... > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Jun 3 13:59:08 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: [OT] Need 7 segment displays... In-Reply-To: <017f01c20b29$b2b7a660$1301090a@xpace.net> Message-ID: > I don't know where to find them, but LED calculators in the 70's sometimes > used 4 digit modules with a DIP-16 form factor. They looked like 4 bubbles > on top of a lead frame. That would make them about 3/4" for four; but I'm > not sure how you'd get 5 unless you could also find a 'single'. > > Not very helpful, I know, but perhaps a step in the right direc I've yet to see a source for those unfortunately. g. From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Jun 3 14:03:31 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: [OT] Need 7 segment displays... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > http://www.allelectronics.com/matrix/7_Segment_Displays.html > > 0.3" character height, red or green. > Any idea who makes them? I need to find out the physical width of the whole package. Thanks! g. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Jun 3 14:10:30 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: Commodore 128 LED re-install??? In-Reply-To: <3CFB8C22.4050106@internet1.net> from Chad Fernandez at "Jun 3, 2 11:32:50 am" Message-ID: <200206031910.MAA11302@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > It seems to want to show me it's registers whenever I try using it now. Uh-oh. Does it look like this? PC SR AC XR YR SP ; xxxxx xx xx xx xx xx If so, it's dumping you into the ROM monitor. I'm willing to bet you have a RAM fault in the system. How many BASIC bytes do you have "free" (it should be 122365) in the startup banner? > I'll start typing in a short counting program, and all of a sudden it > will beep and show me the registers. It doesn't turn on very reliably > either..... it gets power but I have to try a few times to get the > proper display. Any ideas? I though maybe reseating the chips may do > it, but I haven't had the time yet. This is a good idea and may cure the first problem. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Actually, we can overcome gravity (just not the paperwork involved). ------- From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Mon Jun 3 14:12:06 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: [OT] Need 7 segment displays... References: Message-ID: <3CFBBF86.B786F48C@Vishay.com> Thought so, too. First. "Feldman, Robert" wrote: > > http://www.allelectronics.com/matrix/7_Segment_Displays.html > > 0.3" character height, red or green. The dimensions of such displays are around 7.4mm wide by some 9mm high, which will equal about .3" wide. Hence, 5 digits need 1.5" of space, which is 50% off the intended specs. The trouble is: these are the smallest sizes you will ordinarily find (try starting at the link below for similar results, LED chips are made three stories below my office). However, custom designs are possible, and the actual chips alone are only about .25mm cube. Yes, 250um (micrometers). Custom design usually depends on volume ordered. How many digits do you need? ;-) Seriously: if anything fits the bill, it will probably have a digit height of 5mm. Gene, if you need mechanical specs, there are PDFs for download at our Web site (only for real products, of course). These contain exact physical dimensions. -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From enrico.badella at softstar.it Mon Jun 3 14:52:11 2002 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: IBM 9373 console processor References: <3CFBA9EB.2DFE5B40@xs4all.nl> <003f01c20b2d$9b1d0780$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3CFBC8EB.6A2D2DDD@softstar.it> Does anybody know how an IBM 9373 (smallish, one rack, S/370 machine) connects to the console processore, a PS/2 30 PC. The manual shows that you have to connect the cable from the 9373 (male DB-25) to the back, left side of the PC. Could be a serial port, but sounds strange; an S/370 would certainly want to speak SDLC/3270 and not an asyn protocol All info on this machine are welcomed. By the way, what is the general interest for an IBM 6150 RT/PC with docs and manuals. I've been offered one but don't want to collect too much stuff 8-) cheers e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From bill at timeguy.com Mon Jun 3 14:10:31 2002 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: [OT] Need 7 segment displays... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020603140809.T55875-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> I've got a couple of 7-segment LED displays that were built for digital watches; they're about that size, but I'm not sure if the digits are regularly spaced without digging them out and looking. I'm guessing they're hh mm ss format. I also have several of the single-digit "bubble" type displays other people have mentioned on this thread; these are around 1/4" square, with leads across the top and bottom of each. You could probably fit 5 of them side by side in an inch. If either of these are of interest, e-mail me and we'll work on it. I can take a picture of them if that would help as well. On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Gene Buckle wrote: > I'm trying to find some VERY small 7 segment displays. I need a part > that's small enough that 5 digits will fit into an inch long area. I'm > not having any luck and I'm hoping someone here might know where I can > find them. > > Thanks! > > g. > > > From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jun 3 15:32:50 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: contact eBay References: <001b01c20af5$1af93480$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <006b01c20b3d$d4976f40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The do have a fraud option that you could follow. I've never had any luck with it, however. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 5:52 AM Subject: contact eBay > I've been using eBay over three years and have been > defrauded twice. While I'm not really looking for a rant > fest right now, what I Am looking for is an email address > for contacting someone appropriate for customer service > at eBay directly. Their website is obtuse enough in not > giving this out easily. > > John A. > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 3 13:30:30 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: Wanted: Kaypro 2'84/2x In-Reply-To: <20020602231849.77314.qmail@web9807.mail.yahoo.com> from "David G." at Jun 2, 2 04:18:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 416 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020603/2f3938b2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 3 15:34:32 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: [OT] Need 7 segment displays... In-Reply-To: from "Gene Buckle" at Jun 3, 2 10:36:17 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 980 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020603/bcd22f4b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 3 15:13:13 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: re-keying an RS/6000 lock? In-Reply-To: <3CFB0926.30700@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Jun 3, 2 02:13:58 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 7065 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020603/a0c2c5cf/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 3 15:23:55 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: Commodore 128 LED re-install??? In-Reply-To: <3CFB8C22.4050106@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Jun 3, 2 11:32:50 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1918 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020603/b0bd27d0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 3 15:29:54 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: re-keying an RS/6000 lock? In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jun 3, 2 10:16:22 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1033 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020603/2bc7b669/attachment.ksh From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Mon Jun 3 16:08:02 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: [OT] Need 7 segment displays... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ROHM Electronics makes 2 and 3 digit units that would let you get 5 digits in 32mm, or less than 1 and 1/4 inches. See: http://www.rohmelectronics.com/downloads/literature/ledbrochure/leddisplay.pdf and ignore the Japanese (unless you can read it). From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jun 3 16:41:55 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: Wanted: Kaypro 2'84/2x References: Message-ID: <001c01c20b47$7d2bc800$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've got to agree with Tony on this one ... these machines seldom appear in the "thrift stores" I visit, and I don't think I've seen one in nearly a decade, even in the used/surplus computer stores. What's more, theyre so elementary in their functions, consisting of standard TTL parts and conventional peripherals, that you should encounter no serious difficulty other than mechanical parts that may be broken. If it died on its own, it's likely that an electrolytic capacitor in the PSUpr a tantalum on the main board is at fault. If you unplug the power to the main board and suddenly find the PSU provides the correct voltages, you should be able to repair the thing easily, though you'll be much more proficient at desoldering IC's and soldering sockets in their place when you're done. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 12:30 PM Subject: Re: Wanted: Kaypro 2'84/2x > > > > My Kaypro 2'84 died. > > How dead? Does it do anything at all at power-up? > > > I need a replacement as this was the only CP/M machine > > Are you certain that it's going to be harder to repair the existing > machine than to find a replacement (as an aside, I've never seen a Kaypro > _anything_ in the UK). From what I've heard, though, Kaypros are pretty > standard circuitry and shouldn't be hard to repair. > > -tony > From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jun 3 16:44:34 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: [OT] Need 7 segment displays... References: Message-ID: <003901c20b47$e1a585a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It might help konwing what the application is, since another copy of the same device might be more easily found than a replacement part. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Buckle" To: Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 11:36 AM Subject: [OT] Need 7 segment displays... > I'm trying to find some VERY small 7 segment displays. I need a part > that's small enough that 5 digits will fit into an inch long area. I'm > not having any luck and I'm hoping someone here might know where I can > find them. > > Thanks! > > g. > > > From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jun 3 16:48:37 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: makeiso.exe for Windows 98 References: <3CF99C74.88D4C10B@compsys.to> Message-ID: <005b01c20b48$72d66800$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> There's a DOS module in the CD2CD package that's been around since the early '90's that does this. That's how they copied CD's back then. Why does it have to work with WIndows98? Isn't DOS adequate? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerome H. Fine" To: Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 10:17 PM Subject: makeiso.exe for Windows 98 > I would like to set up an image of a CD in a hard disk file. > I understand that makeiso.exe does this in UNIX. Does > anyone have an executable version for Windows 98? > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > -- > If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail > address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk > e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be > obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the > 'at' with the four digits of the current year. > > > > From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Mon Jun 3 17:01:09 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:57 2005 Subject: drive "hood" parts[was: RE: DEC SDI drives] References: <3.0.6.16.20020603131106.61278b68@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3CFBE725.7080801@aurora.regenstrief.org> Joe wrote: > At 12:14 PM 6/3/02 -0400, you wrote: > >>>From: Andreas Freiherr >>> >>>Gunther Schadow wrote: >>> >>>>... Then you can open the hood just like >>>>in my car, check the alternator belt and I just haven't found the >>>>oil dip stick yet :-). >>>> >>>My trouble with it is that the "hood" always bounces back on the rear >>>part of my head, because the pressurized gas retainers have lost their >>>magic smoke in the cause of the years. I am convinced it's impossible >>>and perhaps even dangerous to repair (i.e., to repressurize) them, but >>>is there a known good source for spare parts? >>> > > > Auto parts houses carry replacement struts. I bought a pair from Discount Auto Parts. I think the cost was less than $8 each but that was a couple of years ago. Hehe, see, told ya, it's just like with a car. I usually go to Autozone, but haven't checked on these struts yet. But then there is always a poor man's hood prop rod that can be used :-) cheers, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jun 3 17:01:28 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:58 2005 Subject: What was that mystic Commodore 6509 computer? References: Message-ID: <006d01c20b4a$3e6b4ca0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> . . . and what's so "mystic" about this machine? I can see one considering it mysterious, but that's another matter. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 12:51 PM Subject: Re: What was that mystic Commodore 6509 computer? > > > > There was this computer Commodore was going to make and then pulled > > out of the market. It was based on the 6509 CPU, I guess right before > > I believe there were several... One of them was the P500, aka the PET-II. > It's got a 6509 CPU, VIC-II video chip (I think), and uses the parallel > IEEE-488 bus for peripherals. A sort of cross between a C64 and a PET. > > They are not _that_ rare in the UK, at least not compared with some other > 'never sold' machines. > > The 6509 is a 6502 core with address extension registers (I think one > used for direct addresses, another for indirect addresses) allowing the > chip to access 1Mbyte of memory. > > -tony > > From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Jun 3 17:20:58 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:58 2005 Subject: [OT] Need 7 segment displays... In-Reply-To: <003901c20b47$e1a585a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: > It might help konwing what the application is, since another copy of the same > device might be more easily found than a replacement part. > Dick, take a peek over at http://www.f15sim.com/center_ins.jpg. Look at the far right of the image. There is a cluster of engine instruments. The RPM, TEMP and FUEL FLOW indicators use 3, 4 and 5 digit odometer style displays. They're packing them into a 2.00" diameter instrument body. I need to be able to do the same with 7 segment displays because scratch building those mechanical numeric readouts would completely obliterate my budget. As it is, they're $150 each _without_ the displays. tnx. g. From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Jun 3 17:45:25 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:58 2005 Subject: The prices on ebay are going UP Message-ID: <00af01c20b50$5b7cf400$f1010240@default> Did everyone see the IBM 5100 that just sold for $5,656 item #2026242813 ( what can I get for my two 5110's ?)and the Lisa I the sold for $10,000 item #2026966399. So one got me at the last minute on a Hasbo Think-A-Tron in orig box went for only $38.50. I was out this morning when it sold. Also a Mac 128k went for around $1250 and I'm setting on about 10 of those things but not in the shape this one was. And Mr. "aek" took me out on two mainframe books that I had the high bids on. All-in-all a bad day on ebay for me (lost five and won 1). From rdd at rddavis.org Mon Jun 3 18:14:36 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:58 2005 Subject: NPR: "Radio Row" In-Reply-To: <003f01c20b2d$9b1d0780$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <3CFBA9EB.2DFE5B40@xs4all.nl> <003f01c20b2d$9b1d0780$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20020603231436.GD22078@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe John Allain, from writings of Mon, Jun 03, 2002 at 02:36:41PM -0400: > area around Cortland Street was filled with stores selling > electronics. That was before the city chose that spot for a > major project called the World Trade Center. Monday on That figures; typical of politicians to destroy something useful, used by people with functional brains, to make bizdroids happy or to please the brain-damaged "duh, footbawl!" sports fans. Perhaps a disgruntled electronics hacker, who lost a good source for electronics supplies, was the real mastermind behind the World Trade Center destruction. Anyway, now would be a good time to rebuild Radio Row, and celebrate the reappeance of Radio Row with the world's largest hamfest. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jun 3 18:07:55 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:58 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Cards to Identify In-Reply-To: Andreas Freiherr "Re: [CCTECH] Cards to Identify" (Jun 3, 15:23) References: <20020603055247.54609.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> <3CFB6DE6.E6938037@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <10206040007.ZM17847@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 3, 15:23, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > yes, I also remember having seen PDP-11/VAX peripherals controlled by a > 68000. However, with this board, I am not quite sure if it is Qbus or > UNIBUS at all. I'd have to trace the connections, but before doing so, > my suspicion is that this was some different kind of system with the > Motorola centipede being the main processor. > > And, no, I did not notice any particular driver chips like the 1488/1489 > (or maybe 75188/75189, or some of those 8-pin chips from the DLV-11/J, > or...). The absence of such chips together with the large number of pins > makes me think this might be a separate memory bus, similar to what the > MicroVAX II had. To me, this sounds like a CADMUS 68000 CPU, made in Germany. I've not had much experience of them, but I've seen a couple. They used a 68000 (or maybe 68010), on a quad-height card, in a Q-Bus backplane. It's a long time since I've seen one, but I seem to remember an over-the-top memory connection, not unlike a microVAX. I do remember that a lot of the support boards didn't have handles, and tended to sag, so that they had to have bits of folded card and BluTak inserted to stop them shorting together after a few years. The CADMUS systems I saw ran UNIX, a System III derivative, I think, and were used in the Department of Building at the Heriot-Watt University. I've just had a look to see if I still have any Cadmus docs, but I can't find any :-( -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Jun 3 18:15:24 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:58 2005 Subject: drive "hood" parts[was: RE: DEC SDI drives] Message-ID: Don't leave out the junkyard! I'd bet I could get them from Subarus like mine for free, they don't charge for stuff like emblems, etc... At worst, I'd say the junkyard I go to would want $1.49 for one, plus tax... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From rhudson at cnonline.net Mon Jun 3 18:23:47 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:58 2005 Subject: VRE01 woes In-Reply-To: <002201c20aae$4f3473a0$6501a8c0@fred> References: <002201c20aae$4f3473a0$6501a8c0@fred> Message-ID: <02060316234700.01118@sputnik> On Sunday 02 June 2002 08:25 pm, you wrote: > Haha > > Fred\ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Ron Hudson > Sent: Friday, 31 May, 2002 01.43 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: VRE01 woes > > On Thursday 30 May 2002 02:11 pm, you wrote: > > The trouble is the VRE01 is kind of flickery with about 12 vertical > > areas top to bottom that seem to "shimmy" slightly in -bpp16. no you > > cannot run --bpp8 for a single card. And not --bpp4 or 2 either in > > that > > > server. > > > > fred > > Try moving the monitors a little further apart. :^) hey, I said that a week ago : ^ ) From doug at blinkenlights.com Mon Jun 3 17:50:27 2002 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug Salot) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:58 2005 Subject: The prices on ebay are going UP In-Reply-To: <00af01c20b50$5b7cf400$f1010240@default> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > All-in-all a bad day on ebay for me (lost five and won 1). http://www.stealthbid.com/ (Disclaimers: the service is still beta, and I might have a financial interest in seeing it do well.) Cheers, Doug From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Jun 3 18:25:28 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:58 2005 Subject: The prices on ebay are going UP Message-ID: I thought such things were in some way against Ebay's user agreement or something? Just wondering... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From rschaefe at gcfn.org Mon Jun 3 19:03:33 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:58 2005 Subject: DEC 3000/800 diag LEDs Message-ID: <003701c20b5b$457acb40$b3469280@y5f3q8> Anyone know where I might be able to find out what the diag LEDs on my new '800 are telling me? I haven't been able to find much googling, but I might not be using the correct incantation. The LEDs stay on FD. I've tried with and without the red shorting jumper in the printer MMJ, with a vt320 on the printer MMJ, and with a vt320 on the DB25 port via an H8575-A both with and without the jumper. I do have a 3W3 cable to try the PMAGD-AA, but without a keyboard and mouse I really don't want to drag out the 21" monitor unless I have to. On a side note, what kind of keyboard and mouse does this use? Something compatible with an LK401, as in all I need is a little adapter box, or is it more complex than that? Bob From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 19:13:37 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:58 2005 Subject: re-keying an RS/6000 lock? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020604001337.56196.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > 2. Does the lock use pin tumblers or wafers? > > For pin tumbler locks, you'll probably want a plug follower of the > > right diameter (hint: look at drill bit shanks as an easy source of > > various diameters) > > > > > If you can remove the lock completely, then you have the option of > > handing the entire task oer to a locksmith, who has experience doing > > it. It usually isn't very expensive. > > Yes, but what's the fun in that ;-) Well... my brother _is_ a locksmith, and he has a fun toy - a circular pin-tumbler lock *pick* - it is essentially a follower that is the same proportions as a real key, 4" (10cm) long with a large knob for a handle - it looks like an odd axial nut driver. The way it works is that where the pins are (you need a pick to match your lock since they make them with a variety of quantities of pins), there is a groove machined along the body of the pick that is a few mm long. Inside each grove is a strip of metal like a feeler gauge that can slide up and down the groove. There is also a tension ring a cm or so up the body that keeps the feelers from falling out. You tap all the feelers so they are flush with the front of the pick, then lightly press the pick into the lock while giving a slight rotation - the turned lock binds the lock pins which push back on the feelers. A few twist-push-pull-untwist motions and the feelers back out to the proper depth for the pins and the lock turns. It takes about 3-5 seconds for an experienced hand to "pick" the lock. One benefit compared with picking a "normal" lock is that when you are done with this you, can take the adjusted lockpick and put it on a tubular key cutting machine and *make* a working key. Since one of the prerequisites for a true lock-*smith* is being able to make your own tools, he has made his own tubular lock pick from a blank key and some lock-pick feelers. The real thing is cleaner and neater, but his home-made one works just as well. He opened up the coin door on my Gorf cabinet with his so we could replace the pins to match my DEC keys (XX2247). Now, I'll never be locked out again! -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 19:21:10 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:58 2005 Subject: OT about airport security In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020604002110.73869.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > Ok, I didn't want to have to make a thread about this, but... > > You may not like it, but 100% of the guys who blew up the Murrah Federal > Building in Oklahoma City were White and Christian. So how come we > aren't insisting on checking the backgrounds of every white Christian > that tries to rent a U-Haul or buy fertilizer? Sounds good to me. I don't see why that isn't a good idea, too. As a small-plane pilot, I want to know (he says sarcastically) why there was such a big deal about little-bitty planes for a month after 9/11, but there *wasn't* a big deal about renting trucks after either the WTC truck bomb or OKC. I mean I was *not* allowed to hop in a plane and exercise my authority to fly an airplane for *weeks*, but right after either truck bomb, any yahoo with a driver's license could still rent a truck. Not even restricted for one day. If all pilots are suspect, why aren't all truck renters? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From sloboyko at yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 19:22:14 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:58 2005 Subject: [OT] Need 7 segment displays... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020604002214.99200.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> I've used the little 7x5 dot LED displays from BGMicro in my 8080 single board computers. They look great and are daylight-readable. Problem is, that they are almost completely stupid, come 4 in a 12-pin DIP package, and require transistor drivers. The good news, is that even lowly PIC's can be programmed to drive them, which I've done for a few projects. I have RS-232 going into the PIC at 1200 baud with a few rudimentary "cusror" displays. Also, good news is that they are of super quality (ceramic/glass), cost less than $1 each (not nearly what they cost originally) and I believe that they might be classified as "daylight-readable". I think I have the code for a 16C84 around here somewhere. They also have much smarter, but also larger, red and green displays. --- Gene Buckle wrote: > > It might help konwing what the application is, > since another copy of the same > > device might be more easily found than a > replacement part. > > > Dick, take a peek over at > http://www.f15sim.com/center_ins.jpg. Look at > the far right of the image. There is a cluster of > engine instruments. > The RPM, TEMP and FUEL FLOW indicators use 3, 4 and > 5 digit odometer style > displays. They're packing them into a 2.00" > diameter instrument body. I > need to be able to do the same with 7 segment > displays because scratch > building those mechanical numeric readouts would > completely obliterate my > budget. As it is, they're $150 each _without_ the > displays. > > tnx. > > g. > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jun 3 19:21:26 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:58 2005 Subject: The prices on ebay are going UP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I thought such things were in some way against Ebay's user agreement >or something? Just wondering... You should see the guy that keeps batch-listing 2000+ items at a time, within seconds of each other. Ebay generally cancels the auctions within a few hours of the listing but then he comes back and relists them, eventually under a different name. Most of it tends to be MS software. It wouldn't be so bad if he stuck to the appropriate categories. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Jun 3 19:22:43 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:58 2005 Subject: HP 1000 E-Series References: Message-ID: <3CFC0853.9050008@tiac.net> Sorry for the delay replying, This ain't good. Your machine is failing the microcode self tests. A normal E-series machine on powerup does a quick series of tests. A normal sequence is to test the CPU and microcode data paths, then clear the register select LEDS and proceed to test all installed memory. While the memory test is running, the 16-bit display should increment at about 1 bit per second. Each time its incremented its detected and passed diags on 32K words. After passing the memory test, the machice should only have 1 register select LED lit. Only after passing all these tests does it enter the usual alter-memory-and-registers 'front pannel' mode. So, why does your machine fail self test? Several things might be wrong here... 1. No memory installed. Check to see that a memory controller (2102B or 2102E) is installed in the front backplane, bottom slot. Check that a memory ribbon cable connects the left-hand edge fingers of the memory controller to one or more memory boards located in any of the slots just above the memory controller. Jumpers matter too, but these depend on what sorts of memory your using. Check that the top 3 slots hold the DCPC, Memory Protect, and MEM boards (from top down), and that the DCPC ribbon cable is connected (not needed at this point, but if its not set up right then who knows whats been done to the machine before you got it). Note I did not list bad memory installed, as that gives a very different failure mode. 2. Power supply problems. Check the DC voltages at the top of the interconnect board. This is located above the front memory and rear I/O backplanes. Remove the screw at the top rear of the chassis, and slide the top cover off the machine to the rear and the interconnect ('cross-over') board is visible and well-marked as to the correct voltages. Your memory supply voltage may be missing. Note, sometimes the power supply can deliver the correct voltages and ~look~ good, but fail to generate the power good signals that start up the microengine. This failure would look very much like what you describe. 3. Bad CPU board or blown microcode ROMs. Hope its not this. But if it is, parts are available. I have a number of E-series machines and I know their hardware fairly well. I'm sure we can get this machine running for you. I can also help you out with software, etc once its up and running. Feel free to give me a detailed description of the machine and its configuration off-list, and we'll sort it out. If all else fails, you can sell/trade me the machine as a parts machine! I'll be keeping some E-series HP's running for a long long time to come, and I'm always looking for more parts or full machines. A small, portable HP programming language / operating system is soon to be released as Freeware that will run very well on an E-series machine, so even if you only have a CPU and no peripherals, its still something you can get running and play with. Will Jennings wrote: > Since I got nothing from posting to CCTech, I'll try CCTalk... Ok, I > was feeling brave so I stuck power into the sucker and turned it on.. > no magic smoke or burnt smell, lol, but I'm wondering if its normal > for the extend light and the rox of lights for the registers yo light > up and stay lit up. > > Will J > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Mon Jun 3 19:23:44 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:58 2005 Subject: 1-800-DIGITAL Message-ID: <3CFC0890.5060208@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, well, I made the call, tried to that is. Because of the bad power cable in the old BA23 enclosure. You were supposed to get a replacement when calling this number. However, as could have been expected, that number is no longer in service. The compaq number you are redirected to get's you into the world of compaq^H^H^H^H^H^HHP PC products. Not exactly where one would expect anyone to know about old promises that DEC made. I will make myself a replacement cable by cutting the old one and then just interposing wires with pigtails and a bit of electric tape around. I'll also use thicker cable. How hard can it be. -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jun 3 19:23:51 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:58 2005 Subject: The prices on ebay are going UP Message-ID: <200206040023.RAA04824@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Will Jennings" > >I thought such things were in some way against Ebay's user agreement or >something? Just wondering... > >Will J >> The closest I could find was this below. I'm not sure if it pertains to auto bidding? I don't know what a robot exclusion header is?? Dwight 7.Access and Interference. Our web site contains robot exclusion headers and you agree that you will not use any robot, spider, other automatic device, or manual process to monitor or copy our web pages or the content contained herein without our prior expressed written permission. You agree that you will not use any device, software or routine to bypass our robot exclusion headers, or to interfere or attempt to interfere with the proper working of the eBay site or any activities conducted on our site. You agree that you will not take any action that imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on our infrastructure. Much of the information on our site is updated on a real time basis and is proprietary or is licensed to eBay by our users or third parties. You agree that you will not copy, reproduce, alter, modify, create derivative works, or publicly display any content (except for Your Information) from our website without the prior expressed written permission of eBay or the appropriate third party. From pcw at mesanet.com Mon Jun 3 19:25:25 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:58 2005 Subject: DEC 3000/800 diag LEDs In-Reply-To: <003701c20b5b$457acb40$b3469280@y5f3q8> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Robert Schaefer wrote: > Anyone know where I might be able to find out what the diag LEDs on my new > '800 are telling me? I haven't been able to find much googling, but I might > not be using the correct incantation. The LEDs stay on FD. I've tried with > and without the red shorting jumper in the printer MMJ, with a vt320 on the > printer MMJ, and with a vt320 on the DB25 port via an H8575-A both with and > without the jumper. I do have a 3W3 cable to try the PMAGD-AA, but without > a keyboard and mouse I really don't want to drag out the 21" monitor unless > I have to. > > On a side note, what kind of keyboard and mouse does this use? Something > compatible with an LK401, as in all I need is a little adapter box, or is it > more complex than that? > > Bob > > FD = Memory sizing complete = No memory found Check you memory trees... (table 47 in ek-d3sys-pm.ps (DEC3000 series manual)) Peter Wallace From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Jun 3 19:26:46 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:58 2005 Subject: HP 1000 E-Series References: <012101c20b22$8cb08f10$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <3CFC0946.8000201@tiac.net> Jay If your E-series take 4 minutes to come up, you have power supply issues! A E-series with 512K words should power up, test CPU and all memory, then be 'ready' in under 40 seconds. PS, I have the E-series machine you sent up and running! The 2102E and 256K hi-perf memory system is working flawlessly. If we can find this box a replacement front pannel it will be a complete working machine. Jay West wrote: >Will wrote... > >>smoke or burnt smell, lol, but I'm wondering if its normal for the extend >>light and the rox of lights for the registers yo light up and stay lit up. >> > >I've had my head in my 2100's for so long I'm a bit foggy on the 21MX >machines. But if memory serves, the lights should all come on, but then it >should start a diagnostic from firmware and you should see the rightmost >lights counting up low memory. If you never see this, it indicates a memory >problem most likely. The first thing to check is those ribbon connectors >inside the front that daisychain all the memory cards. I'd suggest taking >them off and cleaning the connectors and edge card traces with a good gold >contact cleaner, then reseating carefully and try again. I seem to recall >that one of my 21mx's took a good 4 minutes or so before it started the >memory test. > >I also seem to recall that if the machines had the power fail restart >option, if memory wasn't maintained due to a dead battery or something that >the machine would come up in a strange state and you had to do something >wierd like turn the machine on while holding store or something like that. >If you still have trouble, I'll look up that procedure for you. > >Hope this helps. > >Jay West > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020603/4d42584e/attachment.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 3 19:27:57 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:58 2005 Subject: re-keying an RS/6000 lock? In-Reply-To: <20020604001337.56196.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jun 3, 2 05:13:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1355 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020604/2b7d6ba3/attachment.ksh From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 19:32:36 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:58 2005 Subject: The prices on ebay are going UP In-Reply-To: <200206040023.RAA04824@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20020604003236.75368.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: > The closest I could find was this below. I'm not sure if it > pertains to auto bidding? I don't know what a robot exclusion header > is?? It is a convention amongst robot/spider writers to pick up and respect the contents of a "robots.txt" file. This file contains optional instructions for respecful software to not index or cache listed web pages and/or directories. I have one on my Antarctic web site to keep them from indexing things like my web stats directories (who needs to cache months-old webified access reports, after all). I learned about robots.txt when I started seeing a lot of non-existent page "errors" in the Wusage logs. Did a bit of digging and discovered that it's a good idea to have even an empty robots.txt file on a web page that is likely to see a crawler go by. I think as much as 30% of the traffic on my site is automated. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 19:45:06 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:58 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Cards to Identify In-Reply-To: <3CFB6DE6.E6938037@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <20020604004506.77419.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Andreas Freiherr wrote: > Ethan, > > yes, I also remember having seen PDP-11/VAX peripherals controlled by a > 68000. However, with this board, I am not quite sure if it is Qbus or > UNIBUS at all True, but if it fits a DEC backplane, the chances are it's one or the other (it's unlikely it's OMNIBUS) > I'd have to trace the connections, but before doing so, > my suspicion is that this was some different kind of system with the > Motorola centipede being the main processor. That's entirely possible, especially based on other comments from this thread, but it wouldn't have been my first guess. > And, no, I did not notice any particular driver chips like the 1488/1489 > (or maybe 75188/75189, or some of those 8-pin chips from the DLV-11/J, 9636/9637 > or...). The absence of such chips together with the large number of pins > makes me think this might be a separate memory bus, similar to what the > MicroVAX II had. Again, entirely possible, especially if it's intended to be the primary CPU. > Sorry for making the task of guessing so hard, I think it's time to get > a digital camera. I hesitate because I don't have access to any computer > with a working USB to upload the pics, and this application alone > wouldn't justify buying Win2000. No doubt. I'm personally looking for a digital camera with Compact Flash as a primary storage medium because of my (positive) experiences in the past with the Kodak DC50 and DC120 cameras. I used to make quick backups by dropping the FLASH cards into a PCMCIA slot on a laptop or properly equipped desktop and treating the camera storage like a removable hard drive. I zipped up the files right from the FLASH card and went from there. No serial download required (especially important as my own laptop doesn't have USB or Windows (it's running Linux at the moment, but I have a hard disk with Solaris for it, too). > > > 3) Qbus-like board, supposedly a CPU, handles made by DEC, board is 4 > > > slots wide, labelled "PCS" (is that PCS CADMUS?), has Motorola > > > MC68000L10, 4k SRAM (2*6116), 16k EPROM (2*2764)... I *hope* the BERG connectors are for external memory. Even the lowliest COMBOARD had 32KB (a *wad* of 2114 SRAMs) The Q-BOARD had 512KB of 50256 chips, and the VAXBI board had 2MB of 44256s (same DRAM controller, the 74S409, but N x 4 chips to get a decent memory density) I've always wanted to stick a Q-BOARD on a QBus as the primary CPU, and port a flavor of Unix to it, but I have *never* had the time to even plan such a task. At best, since it has a 64-pin socket for an 8Mhz processor, I could drop a 68010 in there. With no MMU, however, it would likely have to be a flavor of Minix-68K, since "real" UNIX really wants an MMU or at least a segmented architecture machine to partition processes to give them the illusion of having all the memory space to themselves. I'd love to hear what your board was for. The 68K is one of my personal favorite (non-DEC) CPUs (along with the RCA 1802 and the MOS 6502). I'm curious what your board did and who were its target market. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Jun 3 20:14:14 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:58 2005 Subject: Pointers or circuts... In-Reply-To: <33.27e59f83.2a2a74ef@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020603181151.00a881f0@mail.zipcon.net> I have some SuperMAC 21" multi-sync monitors... unfortunately they are 13w3 monitors, I have found I can get VGA-13w3 cables fairly inexpensively, however :( these monitors are expecting Composite sync or sync on green. does anyone have an idea how I can make an adaptor to do the sync on green or the composite sync? I've never messed with that sort of thing before From foo at siconic.com Mon Jun 3 20:12:47 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:58 2005 Subject: The prices on ebay are going UP In-Reply-To: <00af01c20b50$5b7cf400$f1010240@default> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > Did everyone see the IBM 5100 that just sold for $5,656 item #2026242813 That is indeed high for a 5100. > ( what can I get for my two 5110's ?)and the Lisa I the sold for $10,000 > item #2026966399. So one got me at the last minute on a Hasbo This may scare some people, but that is the exact value that I would give to a Lisa 1 (and not just because I own one). Also, this is almost a perfect example of an original Lisa, and it works, which is a major plus because a lot of original Lisa and Lisa 2 (which was an upgraded Lisa 1) machines have had their on-board battery leak all over the board and corrode components (mine has this problem, but still boots, albeit to an error window). This is repairable but the fact that this one boots right up indicates that either this didn't happen (someone was cognizant of the switch inside that deactivates the battery) or it didn't damage the motherboard. Also, the mumblings of "prototype" and possibly early serial number push the value of this one up. And the fact that it still has the original boxes for the keyboard and mouse is amazing. Altogether, a very significant auction (I don't normally get worked up over eBay auctions in this manner ;) > Think-A-Tron in orig box went for only $38.50. I was out this morning Think-A-Tron's are actually fairly common. > when it sold. Also a Mac 128k went for around $1250 and I'm setting on > about 10 of those things but not in the shape this one was. And Mr. Is it an original Macintosh or a Macintosh 128K (with the "Macintosh 128" emblem on the back as opposed to the "Macintosh 512" for the 512K version and "Macintosh" for the original)? > "aek" took me out on two mainframe books that I had the high bids on. Never try to outbid Al on a mainframe book. It's a basic law of nature. > All-in-all a bad day on ebay for me (lost five and won 1). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Mon Jun 3 20:21:46 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:58 2005 Subject: The prices on ebay are going UP In-Reply-To: <200206040023.RAA04824@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >From: "Will Jennings" > > > >I thought such things were in some way against Ebay's user agreement or > >something? Just wondering... > > > >Will J > >> > > The closest I could find was this below. I'm not sure if it > pertains to auto bidding? I don't know what a robot exclusion header > is?? In my mind this wouldn't really pertain to auto-bidding as the bidding is going to happen anyway, right? If anything it will reduce the amount of bidding as now people will set their high bid and have the software snipe once rather than multiple times in the last minute or 10 seconds or ? of the auction. At the same time it's interesting that you don't need to be a user to commit some of the cardnial sins that it enumerates, so I guess you can get around their legalities by just not being a user to harvest auction data. eBay is lame. > 7.Access and Interference. > Our web site contains robot exclusion headers and you agree that you will > not use any robot, > spider, other automatic device, or manual process to monitor or copy our > web pages or the content > contained herein without our prior expressed written permission. You agree > that you will not use > any device, software or routine to bypass our robot exclusion headers, or > to interfere or attempt to > interfere with the proper working of the eBay site or any activities > conducted on our site. You > agree that you will not take any action that imposes an unreasonable or > disproportionately large > load on our infrastructure. Much of the information on our site is updated > on a real time basis and is > proprietary or is licensed to eBay by our users or third parties. You > agree that you will not copy, > reproduce, alter, modify, create derivative works, or publicly display any > content (except for Your > Information) from our website without the prior expressed written > permission of eBay or the > appropriate third party. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From tony.eros at machm.org Mon Jun 3 20:29:56 2002 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:58 2005 Subject: contact eBay In-Reply-To: <001b01c20af5$1af93480$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020603212129.021a1d88@mail.njd.concentric.com> Hey, it's not my fault if you didn't read the fine print in my auctions. It clearly said that the pictures of my Altare 8800 and Imsigh 8080 were actual size. I may not have mentioned that they were pencil sharpeners though :-) ----- I don't mean to make light of your troubles, John. Especially if some jerk cheated you. Somehow your note reminded me of walking into an electronics store in the local farmer's market a few years back and seeing ads for "genuine Alphine car stereos" and "top quality Panaphonic tape decks". -- Tony At 07:52 AM 6/3/2002 -0400, you wrote: > I've been using eBay over three years and have been >defrauded twice. While I'm not really looking for a rant >fest right now, what I Am looking for is an email address >for contacting someone appropriate for customer service >at eBay directly. Their website is obtuse enough in not >giving this out easily. > >John A. From sloboyko at yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 21:07:58 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:58 2005 Subject: Pointers or circuts... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020603181151.00a881f0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <20020604020758.3040.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com> I did this once with a single-frequency HP monitor off of an Apollo. I used a TTL 7404 and a TTL 7408 to combine the sync's coming off of the VGA card. Because I wasn't sure how the polarity would work, the 7404's and a couple of DPDT switches inverted (or not) the sync signals to get them to work. The VGA pinout for Hsync, Vsync, and RGB on a VGA is very standard, and available anywhere. If your monitors are truly multisync, you should be OK. If they are single-sync or "bi" sync, the polarity of the monitor determining which freq setting to use, getting the sync can be a trial, requiring some goofing around with the PC SVGA driver. Having a "normal" multisync monitor is invaluable during the debugging process. As it was because I was using a definitely fixed-sync monitor I couldn't see what I was doing until I was in Windows. --- Geoff Reed wrote: > I have some SuperMAC 21" multi-sync monitors... > unfortunately they are 13w3 > monitors, I have found I can get VGA-13w3 cables > fairly inexpensively, > however :( these monitors are expecting Composite > sync or sync on green. > does anyone have an idea how I can make an adaptor > to do the sync on green > or the composite sync? I've never messed with that > sort of thing before > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Jun 3 22:58:36 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:58 2005 Subject: The prices on ebay are going UP References: Message-ID: <017401c20b7c$1d44e5e0$f1010240@default> Sorry the Mac 128 was item number 2026464664 and the final price was $2752.22 and it was for a complete system with boxes and extras. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 8:12 PM Subject: Re: The prices on ebay are going UP > On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > > > Did everyone see the IBM 5100 that just sold for $5,656 item #2026242813 > > That is indeed high for a 5100. > > > ( what can I get for my two 5110's ?)and the Lisa I the sold for $10,000 > > item #2026966399. So one got me at the last minute on a Hasbo > > This may scare some people, but that is the exact value that I would give > to a Lisa 1 (and not just because I own one). Also, this is almost a > perfect example of an original Lisa, and it works, which is a major plus > because a lot of original Lisa and Lisa 2 (which was an upgraded Lisa 1) > machines have had their on-board battery leak all over the board and > corrode components (mine has this problem, but still boots, albeit to an > error window). This is repairable but the fact that this one boots right > up indicates that either this didn't happen (someone was cognizant of the > switch inside that deactivates the battery) or it didn't damage the > motherboard. > > Also, the mumblings of "prototype" and possibly early serial number push > the value of this one up. And the fact that it still has the original > boxes for the keyboard and mouse is amazing. Altogether, a very > significant auction (I don't normally get worked up over eBay auctions > in this manner ;) > > > Think-A-Tron in orig box went for only $38.50. I was out this morning > > Think-A-Tron's are actually fairly common. > > > when it sold. Also a Mac 128k went for around $1250 and I'm setting on > > about 10 of those things but not in the shape this one was. And Mr. > > Is it an original Macintosh or a Macintosh 128K (with the "Macintosh 128" > emblem on the back as opposed to the "Macintosh 512" for the 512K version > and "Macintosh" for the original)? > > > "aek" took me out on two mainframe books that I had the high bids on. > > Never try to outbid Al on a mainframe book. It's a basic law of nature. > > > All-in-all a bad day on ebay for me (lost five and won 1). > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From donm at cts.com Mon Jun 3 23:46:47 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:58 2005 Subject: Wanted: Kaypro 2'84/2x In-Reply-To: <001c01c20b47$7d2bc800$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I've got to agree with Tony on this one ... these machines seldom appear in > the "thrift stores" I visit, and I don't think I've seen one in nearly a > decade, even in the used/surplus computer stores. What's more, theyre so > elementary in their functions, consisting of standard TTL parts and > conventional peripherals, that you should encounter no serious difficulty > other than mechanical parts that may be broken. If it died on its own, it's > likely that an electrolytic capacitor in the PSUpr a tantalum on the main > board is at fault. If you unplug the power to the main board and suddenly > find the PSU provides the correct voltages, you should be able to repair the > thing easily, though you'll be much more proficient at desoldering IC's and > soldering sockets in their place when you're done. Well, before you start desoldering IC's you should remove the power supply board and resolder all of the pins that mate up with the long power connector. Kaypro's were infamous for developing a cracked solder joint in one or more of the pins. - don > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tony Duell" > To: > Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 12:30 PM > Subject: Re: Wanted: Kaypro 2'84/2x > > > > > > > > My Kaypro 2'84 died. > > > > How dead? Does it do anything at all at power-up? > > > > > I need a replacement as this was the only CP/M machine > > > > Are you certain that it's going to be harder to repair the existing > > machine than to find a replacement (as an aside, I've never seen a Kaypro > > _anything_ in the UK). From what I've heard, though, Kaypros are pretty > > standard circuitry and shouldn't be hard to repair. > > > > -tony > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jun 3 23:18:01 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:58 2005 Subject: MS-DOS CD Burning Software and MAKEISO References: Message-ID: <000001c20b86$944ea360$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've had access to lots of software for burning/duplicating CD's, and there's been none that produced results better than the freeware called CD2CD. A web search should turn this up. I've yet to see a package, under Windows or any other OS that surpasses it in reliability. In view of that, I'd not pay more than $0.01 for anything else. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Feldman, Robert" To: Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 9:26 AM Subject: MS-DOS CD Burning Software and MAKEISO > I wasn't following the thread closely, and have deleted the posts, but I > want to add to the thread about burning ISO format CD's. > > I just ran across the following URL on another list. They sell ($39.00) > MS-DOS based CR-ROM burning software (16-bit and 32-bit), including a > MAKEISO program, that might be of interest. > > http://goldenhawk.com/dos_body.htm > > > Bob > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jun 4 00:20:14 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: Wanted: Kaypro 2'84/2x References: Message-ID: <001b01c20b87$820d5ec0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> This is absolutely good advice. In a Kaypro there are only three major areas of failure. The PSU, the Mainboad, and the monitor. If the PSU isn't putting out, there's no reason to expect the rest of the machine to work properly. If the mainboard IS working properly and you don't get a display, it's likely you've got a monitor problem. How you go about figuring out whether one or the other of those conditions is present is up to you, but if the PSU isn't doing what it should, all bets are off. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Maslin" To: Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 10:46 PM Subject: Re: Wanted: Kaypro 2'84/2x > > > On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > I've got to agree with Tony on this one ... these machines seldom appear in > > the "thrift stores" I visit, and I don't think I've seen one in nearly a > > decade, even in the used/surplus computer stores. What's more, theyre so > > elementary in their functions, consisting of standard TTL parts and > > conventional peripherals, that you should encounter no serious difficulty > > other than mechanical parts that may be broken. If it died on its own, it's > > likely that an electrolytic capacitor in the PSU or a tantalum on the main > > board is at fault. If you unplug the power to the main board and suddenly > > find the PSU provides the correct voltages, you should be able to repair the > > thing easily, though you'll be much more proficient at desoldering IC's and > > soldering sockets in their place when you're done. > > Well, before you start desoldering IC's you should remove the power > supply board and resolder all of the pins that mate up with the long > power connector. Kaypro's were infamous for developing a cracked solder > joint in one or more of the pins. > > - don > > Dick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Tony Duell" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 12:30 PM > > Subject: Re: Wanted: Kaypro 2'84/2x > > > > > > > > > > > > My Kaypro 2'84 died. > > > > > > How dead? Does it do anything at all at power-up? > > > > > > > I need a replacement as this was the only CP/M machine > > > > > > Are you certain that it's going to be harder to repair the existing > > > machine than to find a replacement (as an aside, I've never seen a Kaypro > > > _anything_ in the UK). From what I've heard, though, Kaypros are pretty > > > standard circuitry and shouldn't be hard to repair. > > > > > > -tony > > > > > > > > > From vaxzilla at jarai.org Tue Jun 4 00:20:33 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: Diagnosing a non-working Mac Performa 476? In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E017846CC@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > Would you believe that the whole thing may be working? ;) Well, I'd be very happy. > First thing to do would be re-initialize the "parameter RAM." Hit > command-alt-p-r on power up. (I have seen corrupted PR cause this > kind of problem.) There are also a couple of things that you can > (very safely) reset with other hot-keys. You'll have to look them > up, though. I've a feeling it's most likely the PRAM battery. I'll try finding a replacement. Someone mentioned a CUDA switch on the motherboard for clearing the PRAM, but the closest thing I can find is an unidentified pair of jumper pins in rough proximity to the battery. I tried the command-alt-p-r thing with the existing batteries without luck, but then there's no Alt key on this particular keyboard (Apple Keyboard II). It only has command, ctrl, and option meta keys. Once I find a replacement battery, I'll poke at it again to see what happens. Thanks to everyone for their advice, I'll followup with my findings (and possibly more questions) as I progress. -brian. From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jun 4 00:27:04 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: [OT] Need 7 segment displays... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Gene Buckle wrote: > I'm trying to find some VERY small 7 segment displays. I need a part > that's small enough that 5 digits will fit into an inch long area. > I'm not having any luck and I'm hoping someone here might know where I > can find them. How many are you looking for? Does it matter if they are common anode/cathode or have a built-in driver? TI made some in the mid to late 1970s that had 6 digits with a built-in driver. The digits are about 5-6mm high, horizontally arranged in a 18-20 pin dip. I'll see if I can find the few I have left and get you the part number. (Anyone have an TI optoelectronics databook from the late 70s?) I imagine those type of TI displays were originally designed for use in things like calculators. I see small amounts (10-20ea) of them turn up surplus from time to time. I'll keep a look out for any the next time I go surplus shopping if that would help any. -Toth From fernande at internet1.net Tue Jun 4 00:23:55 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: bunch of 670mp hardware in California on Ebay Message-ID: <3CFC4EEB.7060004@internet1.net> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2028760587 Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From g at kurico.com Tue Jun 4 00:27:57 2002 From: g at kurico.com (g@kurico.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: MS-DOS CD Burning Software and MAKEISO In-Reply-To: <000001c20b86$944ea360$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3CFC098D.22433.823AD6E@localhost> I've used the DOS GoldenHawk stuff (and even use their win32 stuff now) and have always had great success with it. Burning both audio cd's and um, archival copies of Playstation games (they were one of the first/best apps to do DAO copies back when the PSX first came out). FWIW I'd recommend it. George > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Feldman, Robert" > To: > Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 9:26 AM > Subject: MS-DOS CD Burning Software and MAKEISO > > > > I wasn't following the thread closely, and have deleted the posts, but I > > want to add to the thread about burning ISO format CD's. > > > > I just ran across the following URL on another list. They sell ($39.00) > > MS-DOS based CR-ROM burning software (16-bit and 32-bit), including a > > MAKEISO program, that might be of interest. > > > > http://goldenhawk.com/dos_body.htm > > > > > > Bob > > > From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Jun 4 02:37:56 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: The prices on ebay are going UP References: Message-ID: <00f401c20b9a$be4fdfd0$d02dcd18@wayne052602> > On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > > > Did everyone see the IBM 5100 that just sold for $5,656 item #2026242813 > > That is indeed high for a 5100. > > > ( what can I get for my two 5110's ?)and the Lisa I the sold for $10,000 > > item #2026966399. So one got me at the last minute on a Hasbo > > This may scare some people, but that is the exact value that I would give > to a Lisa 1 (and not just because I own one). Also, this is almost a > perfect example of an original Lisa, and it works, which is a major plus > because a lot of original Lisa and Lisa 2 (which was an upgraded Lisa 1) > machines have had their on-board battery leak all over the board and > corrode components (mine has this problem, but still boots, albeit to an > error window). It seems that this "hobby" is beginning to trend toward more established hobbies where huge multiples are paid for items in top condition. Vintage computers seem to bring big premiums on eBay if they are in good cosmetic shape and include original manuals and software. People really seem to go for the original boxes, although I don't really get that. As to the IBM 5100, I have kept records of the 6 or 7 that have sold on eBay since 1998 and the previous high was $2,550 paid for one in March 2000 (by "jerrys") that also included an external tape drive unit. Prior to that an APL/BASIC model had sold for around $2,400 in December 1999. From lemole at peoplepc.com Tue Jun 4 00:50:38 2002 From: lemole at peoplepc.com (Jerry Curles) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: Looking for OMT Inc. Board Message-ID: <002001c20b8b$c3da0480$5068fa43@supply> Hi all, I am looking for a OMT Inc. Model 5300 or Model 5400 disk/tape controller. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Jerry Curles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020603/5f09086a/attachment.html From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Jun 4 07:42:21 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: DEC 3000/800 diag LEDs In-Reply-To: <003701c20b5b$457acb40$b3469280@y5f3q8> References: <003701c20b5b$457acb40$b3469280@y5f3q8> Message-ID: <20020604144221.A125174@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Mon, Jun 03, 2002 at 08:03:33PM -0400, Robert Schaefer wrote: > Anyone know where I might be able to find out what the diag LEDs on my new > '800 are telling me? ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/misc/dec-docs/ek-d3sys-pm.ps.gz -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Tue Jun 4 08:15:55 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: MS-DOS CD Burning Software and MAKEISO Message-ID: Richard, Goldenhawk also offers a freeware CD2CD.EXE program. Is this the one you are refering to? Bob -----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 11:18 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: MS-DOS CD Burning Software and MAKEISO I've had access to lots of software for burning/duplicating CD's, and there's been none that produced results better than the freeware called CD2CD. A web search should turn this up. I've yet to see a package, under Windows or any other OS that surpasses it in reliability. In view of that, I'd not pay more than $0.01 for anything else. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Feldman, Robert" To: Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 9:26 AM Subject: MS-DOS CD Burning Software and MAKEISO > I wasn't following the thread closely, and have deleted the posts, but I > want to add to the thread about burning ISO format CD's. > > I just ran across the following URL on another list. They sell ($39.00) > MS-DOS based CR-ROM burning software (16-bit and 32-bit), including a > MAKEISO program, that might be of interest. > > http://goldenhawk.com/dos_body.htm > > > Bob > From allain at panix.com Tue Jun 4 08:56:24 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: contact eBay References: <5.0.2.1.0.20020603212129.021a1d88@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: <003401c20bcf$9de40f20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Altare 8800 and Imsigh 8080 ... Thanks. My frauds were the simple kind. Send money, get nothing. eBay supposedly just started requiring better ID of its sellers, probably because the feedback system is insufficient protection for buyers. John A. From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Jun 4 09:30:13 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: drive "hood" parts[was: RE: DEC SDI drives] Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014679D4@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Gunther Schadow > > Joe wrote: > > > At 12:14 PM 6/3/02 -0400, you wrote: > > > >>>From: Andreas Freiherr > >>> > >>>Gunther Schadow wrote: > >>> > >>>>... Then you can open the hood just like > >>>>in my car, check the alternator belt and I just haven't found the > >>>>oil dip stick yet :-). > >>>> > >>>My trouble with it is that the "hood" always bounces back on the rear > >>>part of my head, because the pressurized gas retainers have lost their > >>>magic smoke in the cause of the years. I am convinced it's impossible > >>>and perhaps even dangerous to repair (i.e., to repressurize) them, but > >>>is there a known good source for spare parts? > >>> > > > > > > Auto parts houses carry replacement struts. I bought a pair from > Discount Auto Parts. I think the cost was less than $8 each but that was a > couple of years ago. > > > Hehe, see, told ya, it's just like with a car. I usually go to Autozone, > but haven't checked on these struts yet. But then there is always a > poor man's hood prop rod that can be used :-) > > -- Of course, there's always the quick way to repair a strut that lost it's gas... Vise Grips (locking pliers). They're also an excellent replacement for the seat recliner lever. :) Then they're always at your side... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Jun 4 09:47:31 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: Diagnosing a non-working Mac Performa 476? Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014679D5@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Brian Chase > > > First thing to do would be re-initialize the "parameter RAM." Hit > > command-alt-p-r on power up. (I have seen corrupted PR cause this > > kind of problem.) There are also a couple of things that you can > > (very safely) reset with other hot-keys. You'll have to look them > > up, though. > > ... I tried the > command-alt-p-r thing with the existing batteries without luck, but > then there's no Alt key on this particular keyboard (Apple Keyboard II). > It only has command, ctrl, and option meta keys.. > > There is no [alt] key, because it's a.k.a. [option] key on later keyboards... :) The PRAM reset sequence is [command][option][P][R] I just may have some helpful pdf files around. Send me a note directly, and let me know as much of the machine name/type as you can. -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 4 10:34:40 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: anyone ever had an RA8x on top of a short rack? In-Reply-To: <3CF96A19.4020106@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <20020604153440.58815.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Gunther Schadow wrote: > Since we were chatting about RA80s has anyone of you had an RA8x on > top of a short rack? Never done that. I've never wanted to lift them that high. :-) > I have put on up onto my HSC90 but I found that > they don't actually slide into the rack but the top panel of the rack > is removed and then you can open the hood of the RA8x without > pulling out the "drawer". This is a perfect arrangement for an RA60. The 42" cab for the RA60 was a little different than the standard, IIRC. It had extended-length sides, and was set up to have the top of the upper-most RA60 accessible without sliding it out. The extra length is to accomodate the long drive and still provide room for SDI cables at the rear (and perhaps a cable support arm, I forget if the RA60s used them) > However, I think there are some minor special parts that fill the > gap between the side panels of the rack and the actual drive. Does > anyone of you have those spare lying around somewhere or know where > one might get those? I have no spares and would have no idea where to get such things except a scrapper who hadn't yet cut his racks into handfuls of metal chips. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From mythtech at mac.com Tue Jun 4 11:44:39 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: Diagnosing a non-working Mac Performa 476? Message-ID: >Someone mentioned a CUDA switch on the motherboard for >clearing the PRAM, but the closest thing I can find is an unidentified >pair of jumper pins in rough proximity to the battery. No the CUDA switch is a button. Don't go jumpering unknown wires (not that you planned to I am sure). I just popped the top on an LC 2, no switch. So there may not be one on the 476 either, I would verify, but both my 475's are in use at another location. >I tried the >command-alt-p-r thing with the existing batteries without luck, but >then there's no Alt key on this particular keyboard (Apple Keyboard II). There is no ALT on the Mac. Some keyboards have "Alt" inked above "Option" on the OPTION key, because Apple wanted compatibility with PCs, but in all cases, it is "Option" when talking Mac-speak. So you would press Command-Option-P-R. Hold these down right after hearing the startup bong, and continue to hold them until you hear the Mac bong again. It is recommended that you do this until it bongs 3 times total (just keep holding them down). I don't know exactly why, but that is what Apple's TIL suggests. In the event you are doing this on a soft-power Mac, (and more specifically a PowerBook), rather than going BONG and starting the boot again, the Mac may go BONG and then turn off. That is normal behavior on most PowerBooks most of the time, and occasionally on soft power Macs (ones that don't have a physical power switch, but rather you have to use the Power Key on the keyboard... the 476 is NOT one of them). -chris From mythtech at mac.com Tue Jun 4 11:51:48 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: MS-DOS CD Burning Software and MAKEISO Message-ID: >Burning both audio cd's and um, archival copies of >Playstation games (they were one of the first/best apps to do DAO copies >back when >the PSX first came out). What luck have you had in duping a PSX disc? Does it work native or do you still need a "mod" of some kind on the PSX deck? I ask because I am still on the search for a non-"mod" way of doing backups. And honestly, I am really only looking to do backups (no really I am). My nephew likes to borrow my PSX discs now that I don't really play them much any more, only he doesn't seem to grasp what a jewel case is, and more often then not, I would get them back so scratched they would no longer play. So I am looking for a way to backups so I can go back to loaning him games and not worry about them being destroyed. -chris From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Jun 4 11:39:33 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Unknown terminator identification Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014679D6@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Hello gents. Considering all of the old DEC equipment, and other old hardware that is, and has been, in use here in my building, I'm fairly positive this terminator falls in the 10-year rule... I have here a terminator of some sort. It's a male 37 pin (DE37?), the hood is black plastic, no identifying marks on it. Only " CONTACT 11.2964 075 " on the metal shroud that surrounds the pins. Inside is one of those orange circuit sheets, with an blue rectangle chip on it. The chip is marked... 14-3- 221/331 *B 8418 ... there is 106027 on the end of the sheet, with REV. B on the side. The logo on the sheet looks like a stylized MB. Here's what the pinout is... Chip - Connector 1 - 21 2 - 20 3 4 - 16 5 - 14 6 - 13 7 - 1 8 - 29 9 - 22 10 - 23 11 - 24 12 - 25 13 - 26 14 - 27 Any ideas what it is, and what its for? Anyone? -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From classiccmp at mail.vintage-computer.com Tue Jun 4 11:25:41 2002 From: classiccmp at mail.vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] OpenVMS/DEC Alpha question Message-ID: I'm not sure if this is yet an appropriate question for this list, but it has to be close. I have a DEC Alpha 1000/266 (nearly 10 years old, right?) running OpenVMS 6.2 and I'm having what should be a simple problem with it. . . The system boots to the console fine. From that point, when I boot from the boot device I get an error indicating that there is insufficient disk space on that boot device for one or more processes. This error cycles and the machine never boots to the operating system, so I'm never at a point where I can clean up the offending disk. I know there has to be a way to fix this. I'm sure it's probably really simple, too. I'm just not familiar enough with this operating system or machine to know what to do. Are there any OpenVMS sages out there with any suggestions? Erik S. Klein _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Jun 4 11:44:38 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] OpenVMS/DEC Alpha question Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014679D7@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Erik S. Klein > > I'm not sure if this is yet an appropriate question for this > list, but it has to be close. > > I have a DEC Alpha 1000/266 (nearly 10 years old, right?) > running OpenVMS 6.2 and I'm having what should be a simple > problem with it. . . > > The system boots to the console fine. From that point, when > I boot from the boot device I get an error indicating that > there is insufficient disk space on that boot device for one > or more processes. This error cycles and the machine never > boots to the operating system, so I'm never at a point where > I can clean up the offending disk. > > I know there has to be a way to fix this. I'm sure it's > probably really simple, too. I'm just not familiar enough > with this operating system or machine to know what to do. > > Are there any OpenVMS sages out there with any suggestions? > > Erik S. Klein > _______________________________________________ > I'm not sure what the incantation is, but booting to single-user mode should help you out. At least get it up enough to clean house. -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From RichardPRic at aol.com Tue Jun 4 11:54:38 2002 From: RichardPRic at aol.com (RichardPRic@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 for sale Message-ID: <137.f125df4.2a2e4ace@aol.com> FOR SALE. TANDY 1000 w/2 5-1/4" DRIVES, KEYBOARD, CPU, 12" MONITOR (COLOR OR MONO). MAKE BO RICHARDPRIC@AOL.COM. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 4 12:40:13 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Unknown terminator identification In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014679D6@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <20020604174013.8798.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- David Woyciesjes wrote: > I have here a terminator of some sort. It's a male 37 pin (DE37?), DC37, IIRC. The second letter refers to the physical size of the shell. D connector designators and common uses: o DE9 - common mouse, AT-serial connector o DA15 - Mac video, Ethernet AUI o DB25 - Mac SCSI, RS-232 serial o DC37 - Xebec? SCSI, IBM PC (5150) external floppy interface o DD50 - Sun old-style SCSI (Sun3-era), DEC external TU80 cables AFAIK, all of these have high-density cousins - same shell size, more pins (i.e., DE15, sometimes called DE15HD, for VGA monitors/adapters). Hope this is simple enough to avoid confusion. By posting this here, of course, I subject myself to public humilation at the slightest mistake. :-) > the hood is black plastic, no identifying marks on it. Only " CONTACT > 11.2964 075 " on the metal shroud that surrounds the pins. No idea. > Inside is one of those orange circuit sheets, with an blue rectangle > chip on it. The chip is marked... > 14-3- > 221/331 > *B 8418 It's a 220/330 Ohm terminator. > ... there is 106027 on the end of the sheet, with REV. B on the side. The > logo on the sheet looks like a stylized MB. Here's what the pinout is... > Chip - Connector > 1 - 21 > 2 - 20... > Any ideas what it is, and what its for? Anyone? Nope. I've seen these connectors used for SCSI, for floppy, for printers (DEC DMF-32 - for the line printer output) and probably a few other uses. Hopefully the resistors and/or the pinout will trigger some recognition in someone. If it really is a DEC device, it might be worth checking as a diagnostic loopback connector for a DMF-32. I know the pinout for that is in the docs for the 11/730-Z, since they typically shipped with one. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Jun 4 12:40:18 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] LIST ADMIN Message-ID: <01fa01c20bee$e5539fa0$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Greetings fellow classiccmp'ers For the next few weeks or so - I've decided that I need a total break from list administration - a "vacation" if you will. I'll still be on the list and read it (the threads that interest me) actively as always, but ALL list administration/moderation/management duties need to be temporarily handled by someone else for a bit. Effective immediately any questions, comments, requests, suggestions, complaints, etc. relating to either the cctech or cctalk lists should be directed to Jeff Sharp. During my "list admin vacation" he is to be considered completely empowered to make any and all decisions relating to either cctalk & cctech. I have asked him to check with me before implementing any really major changes, as I will definitely be taking list administration back over in the near future. This will also allow some renewed focus on getting the list FAQ whipped into shape, some much needed changes to the classiccmp website, and yes, the classiccmp mailing list archives getting straightened out (and searchable). As a side note, once I get back from my "vacation" I will likely need a few volunteers to help approve non-member postings, etc. I try to do that many times a day right now, but it would be nice if a few other people checked too once in a while to ensure things are timely. Regards, Jay West _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From hansp at aconit.org Tue Jun 4 12:46:16 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: Diagnosing a non-working Mac Performa 476? References: Message-ID: <3CFCFCE8.6000008@aconit.org> Chris wrote: > No the CUDA switch is a button. Don't go jumpering unknown wires (not > that you planned to I am sure). I just popped the top on an LC 2, no > switch. So there may not be one on the 476 either, I would verify, but > both my 475's are in use at another location. I have a couple of 475's with the same symptoms so I am follwoing this thread carefully. My 475 has no button, red or any other color that I can find. > So you would press Command-Option-P-R. Hold these down right after > hearing the startup bong, and continue to hold them until you hear the > Mac bong again. It is recommended that you do this until it bongs 3 times > total (just keep holding them down). I don't know exactly why, but that > is what Apple's TIL suggests. Being an Apple newbie, what is TIL and where can I get one? -- hbp From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jun 4 12:49:18 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] OpenVMS/DEC Alpha question In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014679D7@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: >> The system boots to the console fine. From that point, when >> I boot from the boot device I get an error indicating that >> there is insufficient disk space on that boot device for one >> or more processes. This error cycles and the machine never >> boots to the operating system, so I'm never at a point where >> I can clean up the offending disk. >> >> I know there has to be a way to fix this. I'm sure it's >> probably really simple, too. I'm just not familiar enough >> with this operating system or machine to know what to do. >> >> Are there any OpenVMS sages out there with any suggestions? >> >> Erik S. Klein >> _______________________________________________ >> > I'm not sure what the incantation is, but booting to single-user >mode should help you out. At least get it up enough to clean house. Go to http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/faq_frames/faq.htm or http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/openvms_faq.txt and look for: MGMT5. I've forgotten the SYSTEM password - what can I do? It sounds like the problem is your disk has filled up as a result of the log files having not been PURGE'd. So you'll need to find your logs and do something like: PURGE OPERATOR.LOG Which reminds me I still need to automate purging the SMBD_STARTUP.LOG's on my server.... Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Jun 4 13:01:58 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: Diagnosing a non-working Mac Performa 476? Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014679DD@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Hans B Pufal > > Chris wrote: > > > So you would press Command-Option-P-R. Hold these down right after > > hearing the startup bong, and continue to hold them until you hear the > > Mac bong again. It is recommended that you do this until it bongs 3 > times > > total (just keep holding them down). I don't know exactly why, but that > > is what Apple's TIL suggests. > > Being an Apple newbie, what is TIL and where can I get one? > > -- hbp > > "Technical Information Library". It can be found at Apple's website. http://www.info.apple.com/new/site5/ -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 4 13:45:28 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: Amiga A2000 POST In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020604184528.19380.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jeff Hellige wrote: > >When powering on, the power LED flashes 10 times then a long flash, and > >repeats. Nothing else plugged in, no floppy, keybaord, mouse or cards. > >Anyone remember what that means??? > > Different hardware combinations and problems will cause the > LED to flash differently. Right. > I'm not aware of any reference outlining the POWER LED flashing. http://wuarchive.wustl.edu/pub/aminet/hard/hack/Amigafix.txt I've seen the flashing LED before - I had an A2000 board that was stripped (Zorro sockets, DRAM, etc.) by the local dealer after it was brought in by a customer who said it was hit by lightning. I threw it on $25K of diagnostic equipment we used to build/repair COMBOARDs and went to town. Tracing bus cycles through the ROM code, it failed a RAM test (yes, I put the RAM back first ;-) Turns out, the fault in this particular board (after I ran wires to replace vaporized traces) was a TTL chip next to the main Xtal. The *input* was pulling down the clock enough to mess with Agnus. A new 7404 (or whatever it was) and that problem went away. A "Green Screen" is the classic Agnus symptom. Problems with Agnus herself, CHIP RAM or anything that affects the clock getting to Agnus could be causing the flashing LED error. I do not know the criteria that differentiate a Green Screen from an LED flash. > The caps lock LED tends to be used for > specific codes, as is the color shown on the screen at various boot > stages. http://wuarchive.wustl.edu/pub/aminet/hard/misc/errormessages.txt The caps lock LED is only for keyboard errors. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 4 13:21:35 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: Pointers or circuts... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020603181151.00a881f0@mail.zipcon.net> from "Geoff Reed" at Jun 3, 2 06:14:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2310 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020604/0d8ebd4e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 4 13:27:57 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: Wanted: Kaypro 2'84/2x In-Reply-To: <001b01c20b87$820d5ec0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 3, 2 11:20:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 854 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020604/47adcabd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 4 13:31:29 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: Looking for OMT Inc. Board In-Reply-To: <002001c20b8b$c3da0480$5068fa43@supply> from "Jerry Curles" at Jun 3, 2 10:50:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 682 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020604/5d502aa6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 4 13:34:30 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: The prices on ebay are going UP In-Reply-To: <00f401c20b9a$be4fdfd0$d02dcd18@wayne052602> from "Wayne M. Smith" at Jun 4, 2 00:37:56 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1026 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020604/7881e459/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 4 13:42:32 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Unknown terminator identification In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014679D6@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> from "David Woyciesjes" at Jun 4, 2 12:39:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1964 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020604/9ca757c2/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jun 4 10:09:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: OT about airport security In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20020603125251.19073434@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020604100901.219f9958@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:06 AM 6/3/02 -0700, you wrote: >On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Joe wrote: > >> I'm sure there is a bit of randomness >> >involved, but that's for the non-Arab, non-Muslim flying contingent. >> >> As much as you may not like to, you have to admit that 100% of the >> 9/11 hijackers were Arabs and Muslim so people that fit that description >> are going to be closely checked for a long time to come, PC or not. I >> know you don't like it, neither do I, but you can blame the Arab Muslim >> extremists and not the airlines for that. > >Ok, I didn't want to have to make a thread about this, but... > >You may not like it, but 100% of the guys who blew up the Murrah Federal >Building in Oklahoma City were White and Christian. So how come we aren't >insisting on checking the backgrounds of every white Christian that tries >to rent a U-Haul or buy fertilizer? Have you tried to buy Ammonium Nitrate lately? I GUANANTEE that anyone that does is going to get a very thorough background investigation. I used to buy the stuff for $.05/pound but now my nursery supply company won't even order it. The same with sulfur. Speaking of OK City and McViegh, the US Army solders are now being CLOSELY scrutinized and many of their rights are being violated (a lot more than the Arab Americans). That's not fair to them but it's being done none the less. > >(Sounds like de ja vue, right? It is, I've said this before.) > >> >Welcome to the New America. >> >> Wouldn't Joe McCarthy love it! > >Is it not ironic that the FBI headquarters building in Washington, D.C. is >named after J. Edgar Hoover, one of the most un-American people ever to >be called an "American"? I agree 100% on that one! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jun 4 10:12:20 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: OT about airport security In-Reply-To: <20020604002110.73869.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020604101220.219fc66e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:21 PM 6/3/02 -0700, you wrote: > >--- Sellam Ismail wrote: >> Ok, I didn't want to have to make a thread about this, but... >> >> You may not like it, but 100% of the guys who blew up the Murrah Federal >> Building in Oklahoma City were White and Christian. So how come we >> aren't insisting on checking the backgrounds of every white Christian >> that tries to rent a U-Haul or buy fertilizer? > >Sounds good to me. I don't see why that isn't a good idea, too. > >As a small-plane pilot, I want to know (he says sarcastically) why >there was such a big deal about little-bitty planes for a month >after 9/11, but there *wasn't* a big deal about renting trucks after >either the WTC truck bomb or OKC. I mean I was *not* allowed to >hop in a plane and exercise my authority to fly an airplane for *weeks*, >but right after either truck bomb, any yahoo with a driver's license >could still rent a truck. Not even restricted for one day. > >If all pilots are suspect, why aren't all truck renters? It really makes you wonder, especially considering how little damage a small plane is capable of. Look at the guy that crashed his into the White House a couple of years ago with no effect. Same thing with the one that recently crashed into the buildings in Tampa and Italy. They did very little damage. Joe From craig-c at campbellsci.com Tue Jun 4 13:44:27 2002 From: craig-c at campbellsci.com (craig-c@campbellsci.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: Wanted: CSA T805 Transputer Boards Message-ID: <3CFCB62B.21029.CDFF16@localhost> My company is interested in purchasing working CSA T805 transputer boards. If you have some to sell, please email me. Thanks, Craig Christensen Campbell Scientific, Inc craig-c@campbellsci.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jun 4 10:19:03 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: The prices on ebay are going UP In-Reply-To: <00af01c20b50$5b7cf400$f1010240@default> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020604101903.219fabae@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:45 PM 6/3/02 -0500, you wrote: >Did everyone see the IBM 5100 that just sold for $5,656 item #2026242813 YOW!!! I'll bet the seller is happy! Anybody know who the buyer is and why he's willing to spend so much? >( what can I get for my two 5110's ?) and the Lisa I the sold for $10,000 Damm! That'll pay off the mortgage! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jun 4 10:24:33 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: OT about airport security In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020603132321.032b5138@pc> References: <3.0.6.16.20020603125251.19073434@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020604102433.219fac86@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:26 PM 6/3/02 -0500, John asked: >So are the body cavity searches done by cute ex-flight attendants? Only if you think 6'2" 200 lb+ 30+ males are cute. From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Jun 4 14:12:27 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Unknown terminator identification Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014679DE@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] ! ! > ! >... ! > ! > I have here a terminator of some sort. It's a male 37 ! pin (DE37?), ! ! DC37M. The Second letter is the shell size. Each shell size normally ! exists in a standard and high-density version : Okay. Noted. And printed out & posted on my corkboard here, for future reference... :) ! ! > ... The chip is marked... ! > 14-3- ! > 221/331 ! > *B 8418 ! ! Read the 221/331 as 22*10^1/33*10^1. In other words 220 ohms and 330 ! ohms. A standard pair of values for a terminator circuit. ! > Any ideas what it is, and what its for? Anyone? ! ! No idea. Assuming the resistor network has power on the ! corner pins (1 ! and 14) then it's only terminating 11 lines. There aren't ! many interfaces ! using 11 lines that need termination, are there? Well, anyone's guess is better than mine... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Jun 4 14:05:36 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: The prices on ebay are going UP Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E017846D5@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > I don't get it either. I have no interest in cardboard boxes. > I _use_ my > classic computers, I don't keep them in boxes... Well, I agree, but I'll say that I find original boxes, which usually contain advertising material of the day, interesting in a historical side-note sort of context. Certainly not something to influence a purchase decision, but possibly an interesting bonus. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' -------------- next part -------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this message is proprietary of Amdocs, protected from disclosure, and may be privileged. The information is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s) of the message. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, use, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL Tue Jun 4 15:03:18 2002 From: CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL (Corda Albert J DLVA) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: The prices on ebay are going UP Message-ID: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F34561A8FC7@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> Actually, I'd prefer not to find a box included with one of my discoveries... I have virtually no storage room left for my systems, and cardboard boxes take up a _lot_ of space. I would really prefer not to be put in the position of throwing away something that I recognize might be of some historical value, simply because I have to devote my remaining space to systems, not packaging... (It can definitely be a guilt trip ;-) -al- > -----Original Message----- > From: Christopher Smith [mailto:csmith@amdocs.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 3:06 PM > To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: The prices on ebay are going UP > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > > > I don't get it either. I have no interest in cardboard boxes. > > I _use_ my > > classic computers, I don't keep them in boxes... > > Well, I agree, but I'll say that I find original boxes, which > usually contain advertising material of the day, interesting > in a historical side-note sort of context. Certainly not > something to influence a purchase decision, but possibly an > interesting bonus. > > Chris > > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > > From coredump at gifford.co.uk Tue Jun 4 15:12:46 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Unknown terminator identification References: Message-ID: <3CFD1F3E.E3972A34@gifford.co.uk> Tony Duell wrote: > DC37M. The Second letter is the shell size. Each shell size normally > exists in a standard and high-density version : ... > DA15 (Ethernet AUI, PC joystick, etc) > DA26 (never seen it) The 26-pin version was used for the differential transputer link connectors on the back of the INMOS B300. The B300 was a gadget that could connect up to four transputer systems to an ethernet and TCP/IP network. INMOS built and sold them for connecting transputers to Unix workstations, as development systems. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Jun 4 15:47:05 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: Finds Message-ID: I got a few things today at Purdue Salvage: Copies of a few old copies of Microsoft Windows on original disks (Windows 1.x, Windows 2.0, and Windows/286 (2.1)), along with a copy of Microsoft Word 4.0 (for DOS). Does anyone have interst in a having a copy of these? Also, is there a chance that it'll catch me any money on [faint of heart turn away] eBay? I don't have the boxes or manuals, but it looks like I have a complete set of disks. I also got a VT220 (no kb, unknown condition) so I can have another VAX console to use... Amazing what you can get for free, eh? -- Pat From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 4 16:00:29 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: The prices on ebay are going UP In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E017846D5@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> from "Christopher Smith" at Jun 4, 2 02:05:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 799 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020604/d8f8b130/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jun 4 16:36:59 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: The prices on ebay are going UP In-Reply-To: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F34561A8FC7@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> References: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F34561A8FC7@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> Message-ID: >Actually, I'd prefer not to find a box included with >one of my discoveries... I have virtually no storage room left >for my systems, and cardboard boxes take up a _lot_ of >space. I would really prefer not to be put in the position >of throwing away something that I recognize might be of >some historical value, simply because I have to devote >my remaining space to systems, not packaging... (It >can definitely be a guilt trip ;-) Some systems like the Atari and Commodore 8bit machines store much better with the boxes though, as do game consoles. Without the boxes their wedge shape just doesn't lend itself to stacking. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Jun 4 16:40:42 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:59 2005 Subject: The prices on ebay are going UP References: Message-ID: <00ed01c20c10$7b81a820$8f010240@default> If you get any Apple TAM boxes let me know. I like the early boxes because of the time spent designing them to tell (sale) a story about the machine inside and the company that made it. Most times today it's brown or white plain box with very dull designs on it if at all. But any early commodore, Pet, Apple and other boxes that you get and do not want let me know. Thanks John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 4:00 PM Subject: Re: The prices on ebay are going UP > > > I don't get it either. I have no interest in cardboard boxes. > > > I _use_ my > > > classic computers, I don't keep them in boxes... > > > > Well, I agree, but I'll say that I find original boxes, which > > usually contain advertising material of the day, interesting > > in a historical side-note sort of context. Certainly not > > something to influence a purchase decision, but possibly an > > interesting bonus. > > Well, I'm much more interested in the computers than the boxes. In > general, I don't throw out boxes that are still in a recognisable > condition -- I try to find soem other collector who wants them. Generally > I give them away. OK, said box probably increases the value of some > machine owned by said other collector, but what does that matter? I had > no use for the box anyway. > > -tony > From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Jun 4 17:28:10 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: The prices on ebay are going UP Message-ID: I dunno, I never really run into classic computer boxes, but then again, since I care mostly about minis and larger, thats probably why.. Personally, I use boxes to house manuals, sorted materials for recycling, and refuse until I put it in the dumpster. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Jun 4 17:31:15 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: The prices on ebay are going UP Message-ID: Eek, does that mean that I shouldn't print out items? Hehe.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From RCini at congressfinancial.com Tue Jun 4 15:11:45 2002 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Motorola S-record converter source for new project Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E501371937@MAIL10> Hello, all: I'm starting a new project...an emulator for the Altair 680b. So, I'm collecting random bits and pieces of code that I might need to implement it. What I'm looking for now is source code to read/write Motorola S-records. There is a nice source code file that exists for reading/writing Intel HEX files but I haven't been able to find a similar one for S-records. Does anyone have such a thing? Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From scotto at attbi.com Tue Jun 4 15:42:20 2002 From: scotto at attbi.com (Scott A. Orlowski) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: Old Sony Optical Drive Message-ID: <000801c20c08$5457b120$c249e30c@attbi.com> Hello all, I just acquired a "PLI Infinity Optical Disk" which is actually a Sony SMO-C501-00 magneto optical drive. I believe the firmware is v2.13. Does anyone know if I can make this drive work under Windows98se? I have no drivers. When I connect it to my SCSI card (Jaz Jet Ultra), it shows up on the SCSI chain. I have it set as device #4. But when I insert a disk, it spins up, then down, then up, then down, etc. etc. etc. There are a bunch of DIP switches on the back of the drive, between the SCSI ports. They are all set to "ON". Any help would be appreciated. -- Scott Orlowski Elizabeth, PA scotto@attbi.com http://scotto.home.attbi.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020604/7aebd2fc/attachment.html From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jun 4 17:34:22 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: Diagnosing a non-working Mac Performa 476? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Jun 2002, Chris wrote: > >Someone mentioned a CUDA switch on the motherboard for > >clearing the PRAM, but the closest thing I can find is an unidentified > >pair of jumper pins in rough proximity to the battery. > > No the CUDA switch is a button. Don't go jumpering unknown wires (not > that you planned to I am sure). I just popped the top on an LC 2, no > switch. So there may not be one on the 476 either, I would verify, but > both my 475's are in use at another location. Wait, wait!! Now I'm confused. LC475 = Performa 605, right? So is a Performa 476 the same board? Doc From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jun 4 17:44:49 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: re-keying an RS/6000 lock? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > > right diameter (hint: look at drill bit shanks as an easy source of > > > > various diameters) When using drill bit shanks as plug followers, you sometimes need to use a piece of shim stock to keep the pins from falling in the gap between the plug and follower. > > > > If you can remove the lock completely, then you have the option of > > > > handing the entire task oer to a locksmith, who has experience doing > > > > it. It usually isn't very expensive. On Tue, 4 Jun 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Yes, but what's the fun in that ;-) > My comment was that it's not much fun to have somebody else do the work. > Not that locksmithing isn't fun (it is...) Some people just don't appreciate fun. (or have too low a frustration tolerance level to handle locksmithing (or assembly language programming)) > > Well... my brother _is_ a locksmith, and he has a fun toy - a circular > > pin-tumbler lock *pick* - it is essentially a follower that is the same > > proportions as a real key, 4" (10cm) long with a large knob for a > Sure... > It is possible to pick a cylindrical lock like any other -- by applying > torque and picking the pins one at a time. The problem is that once > you've done this, the moving disk (see my other posting) will move > through the angle between the pins (perhaps 1/8 revolution) and then lock > again. And you'll have to pick it again. Considering that you might have > to turn the disk through 3/4 revolution or something, this is a somewhat > impractical way of picking the lock. The commercial tubular lock picks have enough friction that once a pin is set, the pick stays in position and that pin does NOT relock when you get to the next position. And the tool can even be used as if it were an original key in duplicating a new key. That ability to work with all pins at once is one of the big differences in working with tubular locks. You could make such a tool with a piece of tubing, or a key that has the correct pin positions (kinda like picking the correct DIN connector). Mill slots and put in sliders. Give the slider enough resistance that it will push pins, but won't force a set pin out of position. Note that a lot of cheap clones have what looks like a lock, but will open with damn near anything that will fit in the keyhole. From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Tue Jun 4 17:48:32 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: makeiso.exe for Windows 98 References: <3CF9AC3C.557C23C@compsys.to> <5.0.0.25.0.20020602161259.030d49b8@pc> Message-ID: <3CFD43C0.47DAF9A6@compsys.to> >John Foust wrote: > >At 01:22 PM 6/2/2002 -0500, Doc wrote: > >Mkisofs is availabla as part of the cygwin tools, but IIUC, will not > >do what you need. It simply builds an ISO filesystem of a list of files > >or a directory tree. It doesn't attempt to duplicate the file_system_ > >at all, ie block placement. > Now that I think about it, I remember posting in a thread here > several months ago in a conversation with Mr. Fine that > we'd determined that right-clicking on a file in Nero (?) > gave you an option to set a file priority low-medium-high > which in fact did place the files nearer to the start of > the disc. Jerome Fine replies: Thank you for the reminder. However, since there are 20 RT-11 partitions for a CD and each partition requires its own RT-11 directory at the very beginning (every 65536 blocks or 33,554,432 bytes), the correct order is not that simple. Thus far, I have received an address which should provide the file structure of the ISO-9660 CD media. I was hoping that a Windows 98 version of mkiosofs was available which allows a user to copy files to a hard disk file in preparation to burn that CD image. Evidentially a TOC (Table of Contents) is set up for the file structure when the files are burn to the CD media. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From foo at siconic.com Tue Jun 4 17:48:48 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: The prices on ebay are going UP In-Reply-To: <017401c20b7c$1d44e5e0$f1010240@default> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > Sorry the Mac 128 was item number 2026464664 and the final price was > $2752.22 and it was for a complete system with boxes and extras. That's a pretty interesting auction lot (incredibly complete) but I still think that value is WAY out of line. Knock that in half and we're getting closer to reality. What a crazy week for online auctions. I still hate eBay. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 4 17:55:08 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Unknown terminator identification In-Reply-To: <3CFD1F3E.E3972A34@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <20020604225508.43655.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Honniball wrote: > > Tony Duell wrote: > > DC37M. The Second letter is the shell size. Each shell size normally > > exists in a standard and high-density version : > ... > > DA15 (Ethernet AUI, PC joystick, etc) > > DA26 (never seen it) > > The 26-pin version was used for the differential transputer > link connectors on the back of the INMOS B300... I have a DA26 on an integrated-flat-panel-486 PCoid by Planar. It's the external IDE CD-ROM connector. I wish I had a cable. I could probably figure out what internal pins (1-40) go to the external 26 pins, but that doesn't get me a connector. Also, I've seen DA26 connectors on Cisco routers for older serial ports. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From foo at siconic.com Tue Jun 4 17:58:10 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: The prices on ebay are going UP In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E017846D5@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Jun 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > Well, I agree, but I'll say that I find original boxes, which > usually contain advertising material of the day, interesting > in a historical side-note sort of context. Certainly not > something to influence a purchase decision, but possibly an > interesting bonus. I agree. The collateral material may not be interesting technically, but it is perhaps culturally significant. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Jun 4 17:59:04 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: The prices on ebay are going UP In-Reply-To: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F34561A8FC7@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Jun 2002, Corda Albert J DLVA wrote: > Actually, I'd prefer not to find a box included with one of my > discoveries... I have virtually no storage room left for my systems, and > cardboard boxes take up a _lot_ of space. I would really prefer not to > be put in the position of throwing away something that I recognize might > be of some historical value, simply because I have to devote my > remaining space to systems, not packaging... (It can definitely be a > guilt trip ;-) Sell the box on eBay and make this month's mortgage payment! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Jun 4 18:00:55 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: Finds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Jun 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > I got a few things today at Purdue Salvage: Copies of a few old copies of > Microsoft Windows on original disks (Windows 1.x, Windows 2.0, and > Windows/286 (2.1)), along with a copy of Microsoft Word 4.0 (for DOS). Quite the finds, especially Windows 1.x! > Does anyone have interst in a having a copy of these? Also, is there a > chance that it'll catch me any money on [faint of heart turn away] eBay? > I don't have the boxes or manuals, but it looks like I have a complete set > of disks. Judging by these recent auctions, your Windows 1.x disks will fetch a pretty penny. My guess is a couple hundred bucks, but the lack of box might hurt your chances for a windfall. > Amazing what you can get for free, eh? Yep :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Tue Jun 4 18:06:59 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Motorola S-record converter source for new project References: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E501371937@MAIL10> Message-ID: <3CFD4813.3060600@aurora.regenstrief.org> Cini, Richard wrote: > I'm starting a new project...an emulator for the Altair 680b. So, > I'm collecting random bits and pieces of code that I might need to implement > it. > > What I'm looking for now is source code to read/write Motorola > S-records. There is a nice source code file that exists for reading/writing > Intel HEX files but I haven't been able to find a similar one for S-records. Hey, I just yesterday saw mention in GNU binutils that can read S-records. Google for GNU binutils and s-records and I'm sure you'll find out more. Or see around the crossgcc FAQ. -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 4 18:07:54 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: re-keying an RS/6000 lock? In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jun 4, 2 03:44:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2539 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020605/b12a3be2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 4 18:09:37 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Motorola S-record converter source for new project In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E501371937@MAIL10> from "Cini, Richard" at Jun 4, 2 04:11:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 436 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020605/8b87e628/attachment.ksh From coredump at gifford.co.uk Tue Jun 4 18:24:37 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Unknown terminator identification References: <20020604225508.43655.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3CFD4C35.112BD989@gifford.co.uk> Ethan Dicks wrote: > I have a DA26 on an integrated-flat-panel-486 PCoid by Planar. It's > the external IDE CD-ROM connector. I wish I had a cable. I could > probably figure out what internal pins (1-40) go to the external > 26 pins, but that doesn't get me a connector. Farnell have them: http://www.farnell.com Order code 225-216 for the plug and 225-241 for the socket. The web site has PDF data files for them, too. Crimp versions and PCB mounting version are also available. They're all made by McMurdo. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From msspcva at yahoo.com Tue Jun 4 18:41:03 2002 From: msspcva at yahoo.com (Clayton Frank Helvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: Possibly OT: IBM 4224-01 printer question Message-ID: <20020604234103.13651.qmail@web14608.mail.yahoo.com> Hi: I think the subject of this message isn't quite 10 years old yet, thus the "OT". I've got two IBM 4224-01 printers I recently acquired from a company going out of business. Both units exhibit the same problem/symptom - when I power them up, the LED display will flash, the fan just starts to spin up, and then - nothing. It seems to die off completely. Since both are doing this I thought I'd ask the list to see if there's something else I need. Both of these have Twinax interfaces, which I'm not familiar with at all - I've tried connecting a T-connector to one of them to see if it's some sort of termination problem, but see no difference in behavior. My purpose in getting these is to resell them, so I'd like to know if they work or not so I can price them. Any help appreciated! -- Frank ===== = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= Clayton Frank Helvey, President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com ============================================================ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Tue Jun 4 18:48:46 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: SURVEY: Powering big iron in your home. Message-ID: <3CFD51DE.3060502@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, I wanted to conduct some survey of the common practices (which may or may not be good practices) to powering your very own mini and maxi big iron in your home. I think this topic may be embarrassing so PLEASE let's wait 10 days or so before flaming and blaming each other for our risky ways of squeezing the last amp out of our feeds. I would hope that in the end we could summarize in a calm and sensible way what the general suggestions might be to a safe but reasonable way of running equipment. Here I go then. As you know, I have two hot-spots: (1) 2 VAX 6000-460 and 8 to 10 RA90 and 2 RA8x and one HSC90 that I run in my basement. I have a dedicated 60 A 220 V 4-wire line going right into that room. I have terminated that line in a circuit breaker box and feed the computers with a 25 A 220 V line. This is about 6 to 9 foot cable of AWG #10 that I run without a metal conduit. (The other breakers feed German household stuff that we still have in use here and there.) I noticed that when I have everything on, the 25 A breaker gets warm. Fairly warm. Not hot, but markedly warm. I made sure the wires are screwed very tight and the breaker is seated right, but still it gets warm. That worries me a bit. Also, I think that my #10 wire is under-dimensioned after all. Since all the consumers are essentially doing some (more or less) good job of load balancing, eventually the neutral wire gets quite a bit of load, possibly beyond 25 A. Theoretically up to 50 A. So, I should have used #8 or even #6 then. However, the practical problem is that you can't fit #6 wire into a breaker contact screw. And even #8 is going to be on the low end with 50 A. The best thing would be if neutral was twice as thick here. I am considering to put in two lines in parallel from the same breaker through the same conduit (if any) the outlets very close together. (2) The VAX 11/780, UNIBUS, TU78, and TE16 in the garage. They run off the same line (so that line is no longer dedicated.) I spliced a branch off with split bolts and lots of electric tape. for insulation. The branch terminates in a dedicated box with the original outlets. The initially #8 AWG is distributed through #10 wires to the various outlets. Even some #12 to the two standard 110V outlets in that box. My concern there is, of course, that (a) the split bolt construction may develop resistance and increased heat dissipation. Also (b) the way I downsize and distribute the #6 feet to smaller wires in the outlet box may lead to overcurrent if the devices aren't connected where they should. I did my best to have the big suckers on thick AWG and shorter length than the moderate consumers. On the other hane, turning the VAX 11/780 on is an extremely rare event right now and will probably be in the future. Some hours per week perhaps. I was concerned about what to do whe I have my VAX party (when everything works.) If we want to turn it all on at the same time, something might happen... I regularly check the warmth of that breaker downstairs and now that that spplit-bolt tap is insulated I can check that for heat. But it's nothing I want to run 24/7 without attention. So, I know I have to do something about it. I usually take the circuit off line when I am done with it. The problem of course is that to do it properly would require upgrading the main feed, replacing the main breaker panel running thousands of new wires, and sub-panels, where each machine essentially has its own breaker, and of course the outlets and plugs need to be all proper. Easy to spend $2000 or more in material and labor for that upgrade. For equipment we run a few hours per week. I'm really interested in hearing how others with minis do it. (If you don't have a mini yourself but want to teach the dangers of electricity and the demands of the NEC, please hold off for 10 days, O.K.?) Any good or bad example is welcome. regards, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From rschaefe at gcfn.org Tue Jun 4 19:25:19 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: SURVEY: Powering big iron in your home. References: <3CFD51DE.3060502@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <006101c20c27$7a6fcb80$6d469280@y5f3q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gunther Schadow" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 07:48 PM Subject: SURVEY: Powering big iron in your home. > I'm really interested in hearing how others with minis do it. (If you > don't have a mini yourself but want to teach the dangers of electricity > and the demands of the NEC, please hold off for 10 days, O.K.?) Any > good or bad example is welcome. Ok, but your ten days start now... ^_^ I have a converted VAX 6320 in the basement, along with a TU81+. Both are connected via twistlock cord ends on the original cords to dedicated circuits. Currently (pun intended) it's just two pieces of 10/3 romex, but eventually it'll be THHN in raceway, after I finalize the locations. The wiring to the VAX is protected by a 2 pole 20A breaker, and the TU81+ by a single pole 30A. The immediate plans include a 15A circuit to plug the new rack into, and longer-term plans include a ~100A subpanel with an isolation transformer. My company is currently in the process of decommissioning a 20KW 480/277V generator. If I can rewire that to 208/120V it might just end up comming home with me to live. That and a small UPS will make me totally independant of the power grid! Oh, hang on... The RA92 is plugged in to the top of the two externally available IEC plugs, just above the power cord, and fused at 10A. Perhaps Field Circus was out of 10A fuses, and it was replaced with an identical-sized 2A fuse? :) > > regards, > -Gunther Bob From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Jun 4 19:19:52 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: Motorola S-record converter source for new project In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk's message of "Wed, 5 Jun 2002 00:09:37 +0100 (BST)" References: Message-ID: <200206050019.g550Jql2043873@daemonweed.reanimators.org> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > Earlier this evening I was thinking about a project that will involve (in > part) translating binary to/from IntelHex (or Motorola S-record would do, > actually). Can you give me a URL for that source code you mentioned (or > any other source code for a simular program). http://www.canb.auug.org.au/~millerp/srecord/srecord.html My recollection is that when I first tried to install SRecord version 1.5 (a couple of years ago) I found that it was written in a sufficiently new dialect of C++ that it didn't want to go down the gcc 2.7.mumble that I was running on the intended FreeBSD box. One short upgrade of FreeBSD later I had a newer version of gcc in the base system and it was building and running SRecord. #include -Frank McConnell From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Tue Jun 4 19:30:08 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: Old Sony Optical Drive References: <000801c20c08$5457b120$c249e30c@attbi.com> Message-ID: <3CFD5B90.C21BCFE4@compsys.to> >"Scott A. Orlowski" wrote: > Hello all, I just acquired a "PLI Infinity Optical Disk" which is > actually a Sony SMO-C501-00 magneto optical drive. I believe the > firmware is v2.13. Does anyone know if I can make this drive work > under Windows98se? I have no drivers. When I connect it to my SCSI > card (Jaz Jet Ultra), it shows up on the SCSI chain. I have it set as > device #4. But when I insert a disk, it spins up, then down, then up, > then down, etc. etc. etc. There are a bunch of DIP switches on the > back of the drive, between the SCSI ports. They are all set to > "ON".Any help would be appreciated.-- > Scott Orlowski > Elizabeth, PA > scotto@attbi.com > http://scotto.home.attbi.com Jerome Fine replies: I also run Windows 98 SE (Yeck!!!) on a Pentium III 750. My first reaction is that you have a bad drive. I have a number of Sony SMO S501 drives and I seem to remember that before I attempted to connect it as a SCSIn: drive under Ersatz-11, I did NOT need an ASPI driver. Also, I don't think that the drive even needs to be connected to a SCSI host adapter to be able to insert the media and have it spin up and stay spun up. On the other hand, you do mention the drive as a C501. In my experience, the S501 is actually (on the inside in addition to the power supply) a C501 that is the controller board between the host adapter and the actual drive which is the D501 - assuming that you did look inside to see the actual parts. More modern magneto optical drives have the controller imbedded into the drive so that the C501 is not present as a separate board. But having all the dip switches set at ON is correct for a SCSI ID=0. If you have the Jazz on the SCSI chain at the same time, you may have termination problems depending which device is at the end of the chain - ALSO if you use both an internal cable and the external cable at the same time. If you don't insert any media and boot Windows 98 SE, then under Windows Explorer, the drive should at least show up as "Removable Media". Then when the media goes in, if it still does not stay at spin up, it is difficult to know what the problem is. One problem might be that Windows Explorer insists that the media be correctly formatted, but that is probably shown only after successful spinup is achieved. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From foo at siconic.com Tue Jun 4 19:52:13 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: Replacement tube for IBM 026 Printing Card Punch Message-ID: So I'm off to look for a 25L6 tube for my IBM 026. John Lawson says that the tube is a 25L6 because all the other tubes in the rack are 25L6 types and he believes they are hammer drivers. Not to doubt the venerable Mr. Lawson, since he did used to service these, but I just want to make sure this is in fact the right tube type that goes into the socket that is currently empty. See photo here: http://www.vintage.org/gallery.php?title=IBM%20026%20Printing%20Card%20Card%20Punch&grouptag=IBM026 I'd hate to plug in the wrong tube and then witness volumnious amounts of smoke billow from within the machine. Can someone verify that the 25L6 is indeed the correct tube for the empty socket? Thanks! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Jun 4 20:07:18 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: SURVEY: Powering big iron in your home. In-Reply-To: <3CFD51DE.3060502@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: > I noticed that when I have everything on, the 25 A breaker gets > warm. Fairly warm. Not hot, but markedly warm. I made sure the > wires are screwed very tight and the breaker is seated right, but > still it gets warm. That worries me a bit. This is normal if the breaker is close to the trip current. Don't worry about it. You may want to think about going to 30 Amperes. > Also, I think that my #10 wire is under-dimensioned after all. #10 is fine for a 25 Ampere circuit. Putting in a larger wire, like #8 or #6 will not gain you anything unless the load is quite a long distance from the breaker (voltage drop, basically - another thing that you should not worry about in your situation). > Since all the consumers are essentially doing some (more or less) > good job of load balancing, eventually the neutral wire gets > quite a bit of load, possibly beyond 25 A. Theoretically up to > 50 A. So, I should have used #8 or even #6 then. If the two sides are load balancing perfectly, the neutral will not pass any current. In an Edison feed (as this is correctly called), the neutral carries only the difference of the currents. If one side of the 240 VAC system draws 20 Amperes and the other side draws 22 Amperes, the neutral will "provide" the missing 2 Amperes. At worst case, with one side full at 25 and one side off, the neutral will pass the 25 Amperes. > However, the practical problem is that you can't fit #6 wire into > a breaker contact screw. And even #8 is going to be on the low > end with 50 A. The best thing would be if neutral was twice as > thick here. This is actually non-code. Do not do it. > I spliced a branch off with split bolts and lots of electric tape. > for insulation. The branch terminates in a dedicated box with > the original outlets. The initially #8 AWG is distributed through > #10 wires to the various outlets. Even some #12 to the two > standard 110V outlets in that box. Do you have a subpanel with breakers rated for the individual branches? This is important. In almost every instance, if you go down any size of wire from a larger feed, you must put in a breaker. If you do not, you could cram too much current thru a branch, but the breaker feeding it will not trip. > My concern there is, of course, that (a) the split bolt construction > may develop resistance and increased heat dissipation. This should not happen, as long as you stay away from aluminum wire or split bolts. > Also (b) the > way I downsize and distribute the #6 feet to smaller wires in the > outlet box may lead to overcurrent if the devices aren't connected > where they should. I did my best to have the big suckers on thick > AWG and shorter length than the moderate consumers. This is an example of my above point - plug something in to the wrong outlet, and you may have a wire pair start to glow red, yet the big breaker ahead will not trip. > The problem of course is that to do it properly would require > upgrading the main feed, replacing the main breaker panel running > thousands of new wires, and sub-panels, where each machine essentially > has its own breaker, and of course the outlets and plugs need to be > all proper. Easy to spend $2000 or more in material and labor for that > upgrade. For equipment we run a few hours per week. As the son of an electrician, I can say that it is *always* good to do it properly. Houses burn down due to faulty wiring all the time. Many more come *damn* close - I have seen obviously charred and melted wires in many houses, saved only because the wire was not run right up against a beam. I would think, if you do this yourself, you could have this project done for a quarter of the cost. You could probably reuse quite a bit of what is already installed, as it seems like you just need to put in some subpanel breaker boxes at stategic points. The NEC may seem picky (it is), but it is realy just a bunch of common sense rules. If you have any questions, please feel free to email me. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Jun 4 20:07:45 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: Replacement tube for IBM 026 Printing Card Punch Message-ID: <200206050107.SAA05917@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Look at the wiring. If it looks similar to what is on the other 25L6's, you should be OK. You should check the grid voltages on all of these tubes. Incorrect bias can cause excess plate disapation. This will shorten the tube life to minute/hours. See below for pinout: http://www.nostalgiaair.org/scripts/showbase.dll?TYPE=25L6&BASE=7AC later Dwight >From: "Sellam Ismail" > > >So I'm off to look for a 25L6 tube for my IBM 026. John Lawson says that >the tube is a 25L6 because all the other tubes in the rack are 25L6 types >and he believes they are hammer drivers. Not to doubt the venerable >Mr. Lawson, since he did used to service these, but I just want to make >sure this is in fact the right tube type that goes into the socket that is >currently empty. See photo here: > >http://www.vintage.org/gallery.php?title=IBM%20026%20Printing%20Card%20Card%20P unch&grouptag=IBM026 > >I'd hate to plug in the wrong tube and then witness volumnious >amounts of smoke billow from within the machine. Can someone verify that >the 25L6 is indeed the correct tube for the empty socket? > >Thanks! > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > > From jrice at texoma.net Tue Jun 4 20:19:08 2002 From: jrice at texoma.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: SURVEY: Powering big iron in your home. References: <3CFD51DE.3060502@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <3CFD670C.2010302@texoma.net> Gunther, I don't collect "big iron" or even mini's but I still hold a master electrician ticket. 1.Breaker - Breakers do and can safely run warm. I've been out of the trsade for 6 years now, but if I remember, some household class breakers were rated to run as much as 30-40 degrees C above ambient and still be in spec. Temps measured with a IF scanner used to show that heavily loaded breakers ran as hot as 150-175F in regular service. Some brands ;ike Zinsco-Sylvania, Federal Pacific and old GE panels were known to break down at lower loads than others. We had the best luck with The SquareD QO series or C-H. I never liked the Square D "Homeline" series...too much cost savings at the expense of ease of service and durability. I always thought they were "engineered to a price, not to a standard". The QO breakers are even available in an electrically operated remote version. 2.Split bolts are an approved splicing method, just not used as much on small wire sizes. I rarely used them for small cables, just those #2 or larger. I routinely used split bolts on cables up to 1000MCM cross section. Just tighten the shit out of them, pad them well with scotch rubber splicing pads and tape the hell out of them. Never had a split bolt splice of mine go bad. Your #10 wire is under-sized. #8 is commonly used on 50 amp circuits in some areas because the common household breaker will trip before a continous load of 50 amps is reached. Most are designed to trip under continous loads of 90% of the label rating. To relieve your concern, you can apply some contact paste (Look for it under the Burndy brand at a supply house) to you cables before torquing the screws. It seems to keep screw connections cooler. You might want to check your neutral current. Ideally it should be 0, however that isn't common. It most of the load is single phase, then doubling the neutral size might be a wise move. > Hi, > > I wanted to conduct some survey of the common practices (which > may or may not be good practices) to powering your very own mini > and maxi big iron in your home. I think this topic may be > embarrassing so PLEASE let's wait 10 days or so before flaming > and blaming each other for our risky ways of squeezing the last > amp out of our feeds. I would hope that in the end we could > summarize in a calm and sensible way what the general suggestions > might be to a safe but reasonable way of running equipment. > > Here I go then. As you know, I have two hot-spots: > > > > (1) 2 VAX 6000-460 and 8 to 10 RA90 and 2 RA8x and one HSC90 > that I run in my basement. I have a dedicated 60 A 220 V 4-wire > line going right into that room. I have terminated that line in > a circuit breaker box and feed the computers with a 25 A 220 V > line. This is about 6 to 9 foot cable of AWG #10 that I run without > a metal conduit. (The other breakers feed German household stuff > that we still have in use here and there.) > > I noticed that when I have everything on, the 25 A breaker gets > warm. Fairly warm. Not hot, but markedly warm. I made sure the > wires are screwed very tight and the breaker is seated right, but > still it gets warm. That worries me a bit. > > Also, I think that my #10 wire is under-dimensioned after all. > Since all the consumers are essentially doing some (more or less) > good job of load balancing, eventually the neutral wire gets > quite a bit of load, possibly beyond 25 A. Theoretically up to > 50 A. So, I should have used #8 or even #6 then. > > However, the practical problem is that you can't fit #6 wire into > a breaker contact screw. And even #8 is going to be on the low > end with 50 A. The best thing would be if neutral was twice as > thick here. I am considering to put in two lines in parallel from > the same breaker through the same conduit (if any) the outlets > very close together. > > > > (2) The VAX 11/780, UNIBUS, TU78, and TE16 in the garage. > They run off the same line (so that line is no longer dedicated.) > I spliced a branch off with split bolts and lots of electric tape. > for insulation. The branch terminates in a dedicated box with > the original outlets. The initially #8 AWG is distributed through > #10 wires to the various outlets. Even some #12 to the two > standard 110V outlets in that box. > > My concern there is, of course, that (a) the split bolt construction > may develop resistance and increased heat dissipation. Also (b) the > way I downsize and distribute the #6 feet to smaller wires in the > outlet box may lead to overcurrent if the devices aren't connected > where they should. I did my best to have the big suckers on thick > AWG and shorter length than the moderate consumers. On the other > hane, turning the VAX 11/780 on is an extremely rare event right now > and will probably be in the future. Some hours per week perhaps. > > > > I was concerned about what to do whe I have my VAX party (when > everything works.) If we want to turn it all on at the same time, > something might happen... > > I regularly check the warmth of that breaker downstairs and now that > that spplit-bolt tap is insulated I can check that for heat. But it's > nothing I want to run 24/7 without attention. So, I know I have to do > something about it. I usually take the circuit off line when I am > done with it. > > The problem of course is that to do it properly would require > upgrading the main feed, replacing the main breaker panel running > thousands of new wires, and sub-panels, where each machine essentially > has its own breaker, and of course the outlets and plugs need to be > all proper. Easy to spend $2000 or more in material and labor for that > upgrade. For equipment we run a few hours per week. > > > > > I'm really interested in hearing how others with minis do it. (If you > don't have a mini yourself but want to teach the dangers of electricity > and the demands of the NEC, please hold off for 10 days, O.K.?) Any > good or bad example is welcome. > > regards, > -Gunther > > > From jrice at texoma.net Tue Jun 4 20:22:28 2002 From: jrice at texoma.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: SURVEY: Powering big iron in your home. References: <3CFD51DE.3060502@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <3CFD67D4.7010102@texoma.net> When I said the #10 was undersized I thiught you were putting it in a 50a breaker. It's ok for 25A. I agree with William. I would install a subpanel to divide the load down further with small breakers. From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Jun 4 20:29:32 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: SURVEY: Powering big iron in your home. In-Reply-To: <3CFD670C.2010302@texoma.net> Message-ID: > Your #10 wire is under-sized. #8 is commonly used on 50 amp circuits in > some areas because the common household breaker will trip before a > continous load of 50 amps is reached. He is running it thru a 25 Ampere breaker, right? #10 can safely handle 30. Of course, he could upgrade the breaker above 30, in which case, yes, the #10 is too small. Actually, upgarding the breaker might be a good idea, as we all know he is just going to get more big VAXen... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Jun 4 21:19:33 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: Replacement tube for IBM 026 Printing Card Punch In-Reply-To: <200206050107.SAA05917@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Jun 2002, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Hi > Look at the wiring. If it looks similar to what is on the other > 25L6's, you should be OK. You should check the grid voltages > on all of these tubes. Incorrect bias can cause excess plate > disapation. This will shorten the tube life to minute/hours. > See below for pinout: > > http://www.nostalgiaair.org/scripts/showbase.dll?TYPE=25L6&BASE=7AC > > later > Dwight This is excellent advice; however, it assumes a certain inventory of skills/equipment on the part of the Owner. Barring Sellam's learning a lot of obsolete elctronic lore and basic tube theory, and then dredging the chassis out of the pedestal and going thru the wiring and voltages - what he asked for (and what is the needed info in this case) is: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ * What is the tube layout for the 026 Printing Punch electronic chassis? * One tube is missing; the rest are 25L6s (IBM Badged, no less!) and we have no 'docatall' for the rig. Therefore, anyone with the correct tube layout info is encouraged to post it here so that Sellam may fill the 8-pinned, stem-keyed, lonely socket where once a Happy Tube lived and worked. The electronic symptom is (for those familiar with the circuit): The majority of the keys, when depressed, do not seem to perform any functions, and do not release afterward (they stay depressed). Depressing the Master Clear under the Read Station clears the machine and releases the keys. The REL key and (IIRC) the SKIP key do their thing - nothing else. When prodded manually, the machine feeds cards, and has, from time to time, tried to DUP punch, but it's severly autistic in it's current state of repair. I recall the missing tubels position as being the lower row of tubes, far left one, when veiwing the chassis in it's normally-installed position. That's all I could glean from a pleasant Sunday morning of minor disassembly, cleaning, oiling, and general TLC. It sat in a garage for several years, and gathered much dust. Now, it cries out for life! Life! Life after Scrap! > > > > >From: "Sellam Ismail" > > > > > >So I'm off to look for a 25L6 tube for my IBM 026. John Lawson says that > >the tube is a 25L6 because all the other tubes in the rack are 25L6 types > >and he believes they are hammer drivers. Not to doubt the venerable > >Mr. Lawson, since he did used to service these, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Minor correction For The Record: I punched my share of cards on various 026s, got in trouble in high school for getting caught by the Math Dept Head with the covers all off one of the ones we had there (investigating it's beautiful complexity, nothing more..), used shopping bags full of chads for illicit confetti, but I never actually made my living keeping 'em punching. Roads not taken... > >but I just want to make > >sure this is in fact the right tube type that goes into the socket that is > >currently empty. See photo here: > > > >http://www.vintage.org/gallery.php?title=IBM%20026%20Printing%20Card%20Card%20P > unch&grouptag=IBM026 > > > >I'd hate to plug in the wrong tube and then witness volumnious > >amounts of smoke billow from within the machine. Can someone verify that > >the 25L6 is indeed the correct tube for the empty socket? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ -> Note required information. Bottom left-most tube, IIRC. <- Cheers John From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jun 4 21:28:59 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: SURVEY: Powering big iron in your home. In-Reply-To: from "Gunther Schadow" at Jun 04, 2002 06:48:46 PM Message-ID: <200206050228.g552Sxo14352@shell1.aracnet.com> > I wanted to conduct some survey of the common practices (which > may or may not be good practices) to powering your very own mini > and maxi big iron in your home. I think this topic may be Well, the biggest I've got in our apartment is my PDP-11/73, and a couple of PDP-8's. They're small enough they plug into a normal wall socket. Oh, there is also the VAX 3500, but I've not even plugged it in to see if it works. Hmmm, then there is the really big 'computer', does a 4 slot Neo Geo Arcade machine count as 'Big Iron' :^) Or is that 'Big Wood' :^) However, in my folks garage I've got my PDP-11/44 with a pair of RL02's. Since the system is supposed to have a 15A feed, my Dad built a 'extension' cable that plugs into one of the sockets next to their washer & dryer (not sure why they've a spare socket). It's been a few years since he built it, however, I remember that he built it useing parts that were spec'd at 15+ amps. The only problem with this is you can't do laundry while the PDP-11 is running. Now my question is, what are you doing about cooling? I know the /44 will get my folks garage up to a comfortable temp fairly quickly in the winter, and it can only be run in the morning in the summer. Zane From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Jun 4 23:08:56 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine Message-ID: <02060421085600.01118@sputnik> Well what's the cheapest way to get into somthing running real VMS? Even for a single user (can I connect it to my home network and telnet to it from linux) (wishing for authorize just one more time....) BTW I have PC-DCL (HMM gotta look up the source on that to see if it can be a linux shell.....) Ron. From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Tue Jun 4 23:09:59 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <02060421085600.01118@sputnik> Message-ID: <001e01c20c46$dc720860$023ca8c0@blafleur> There's a couple MicroVAX 3100 and VAXstation 3100's on Ebay right now that have very poor descriptions, and no photos, so they'll probably go cheap. Shipping will probably be more than the winning bid :) -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ron Hudson Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:09 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine Well what's the cheapest way to get into somthing running real VMS? Even for a single user (can I connect it to my home network and telnet to it from linux) (wishing for authorize just one more time....) BTW I have PC-DCL (HMM gotta look up the source on that to see if it can be a linux shell.....) Ron. From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Jun 4 23:32:46 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <001e01c20c46$dc720860$023ca8c0@blafleur> References: <001e01c20c46$dc720860$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <02060421324604.01118@sputnik> On Tuesday 04 June 2002 09:09 pm, you wrote: > There's a couple MicroVAX 3100 and VAXstation 3100's on Ebay right now > that have very poor descriptions, and no photos, so they'll probably go > cheap. Shipping will probably be more than the winning bid :) There are some boxes marked like that at Weird Stuff, back in the asis area. sorta desktop pentium sized, floppy, perhaps a cdrom.. I'l havta go look at them again. they want about $10 to $30 for those.. Good?? From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Tue Jun 4 23:39:38 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <02060421324604.01118@sputnik> Message-ID: <001f01c20c4b$00682160$023ca8c0@blafleur> A Microvax 3100 or VAXStation 3100 is a decent machine. They are SCSI based so you can fairly easily get disk drives for them. There are MANY different models, from the original 3100-10 (somewhere around 2 VUPs I think) to the 3100-96 (3100-98) at something like 38 VUPs (38 x the speed of the original VAX 780 on your desktop!). Generally speaking the 3100 is a good hobbyist machine, as it's fairly flexible, and if you're not interested in getting involved with Qbus, etc. it makes life easier.If you just want a single user machine, it should be fine. VAXstation models offer an internal "frame buffer" (graphics card) while MicroVAX 3100 have serial ports for terminals or connection to a PC comm port. There's also the slightly smaller MicroVAX 2000, kind-of in a square-ish box, and significantly slower (0.9 VUPs). Not SCSI compatible, really. If available, I'd stick with a 3100. CD-ROM drive is a good thing to have for loading software. Hope this helps. - Bob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ron Hudson Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:33 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Still pineing for my own VMS machine On Tuesday 04 June 2002 09:09 pm, you wrote: > There's a couple MicroVAX 3100 and VAXstation 3100's on Ebay right now > that have very poor descriptions, and no photos, so they'll probably > go cheap. Shipping will probably be more than the winning bid :) There are some boxes marked like that at Weird Stuff, back in the asis area. sorta desktop pentium sized, floppy, perhaps a cdrom.. I'l havta go look at them again. they want about $10 to $30 for those.. Good?? From fernande at internet1.net Tue Jun 4 23:49:45 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: OT about airport security References: <3.0.6.16.20020604101220.219fc66e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3CFD9869.1000408@internet1.net> Joe wrote: > It really makes you wonder, especially considering how little damage a small plane is capable of. Look at the guy that crashed his into the White House a couple of years ago with no effect. Same thing with the one that recently crashed into the buildings in Tampa and Italy. They did very little damage. > > Joe Loaded with the right explosives or chemical/biological agents make them much more of a threat. Also there a many fewer small airplanes to control than trucks. Plus trucks have a much bigger impact on the economy and our lives than small airplanes. Requarding the White House..... it's a fortress. It may look old. original, etc, but it's been rebuilt from the inside out to be a fortress. I'm not saying it is indestructible, but it is a lot less vulnerable than a normal wooden structure, like what most of us live in. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Tue Jun 4 18:06:59 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Motorola S-record converter source for new project References: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E501371937@MAIL10> Message-ID: <3CFD4813.3060600@aurora.regenstrief.org> Cini, Richard wrote: > I'm starting a new project...an emulator for the Altair 680b. So, > I'm collecting random bits and pieces of code that I might need to implement > it. > > What I'm looking for now is source code to read/write Motorola > S-records. There is a nice source code file that exists for reading/writing > Intel HEX files but I haven't been able to find a similar one for S-records. Hey, I just yesterday saw mention in GNU binutils that can read S-records. Google for GNU binutils and s-records and I'm sure you'll find out more. Or see around the crossgcc FAQ. -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From fernande at internet1.net Wed Jun 5 00:14:46 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine References: <001f01c20c4b$00682160$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <3CFD9E46.7090105@internet1.net> Bob Lafleur wrote: >.... 3100-96 (3100-98) at something like 38 VUPs (38 x the > speed of the original VAX 780 on your desktop!). Wow, he has a Vax 780 on his desk!! That must be quite a desk!! :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Wed Jun 5 00:25:27 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: Wanted: Kaypro 2'84/2x Message-ID: <20020605052539.WMZO1188.imf20bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Tony Duell > Are you certain that it's going to be harder to repair the existing > machine than to find a replacement (as an aside, I've never seen a Kaypro > _anything_ in the UK). That's a shame! A couple of years back I asked the classiccmp list what was the "best" CP/M machine, and the overwhelming answer was "Kaypro." I like mine. It's rock-solid, and applications, compilers, etc. are easy to find. The disk i/o is slow, though. > From what I've heard, though, Kaypros are pretty > standard circuitry and shouldn't be hard to repair. Yes. I have the 84/2X schematics and I'll be happy to scan and email them to the OP if he/she will contact me offlist. Glen 0/0 From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jun 5 00:36:06 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: Replacement tube for IBM 026 Printing Card Punch In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Jun 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > So I'm off to look for a 25L6 tube for my IBM 026. John Lawson says > that the tube is a 25L6 because all the other tubes in the rack are > 25L6 types and he believes they are hammer drivers. Not to doubt the > venerable Mr. Lawson, since he did used to service these, but I just > want to make sure this is in fact the right tube type that goes into > the socket that is currently empty. See photo here: I'm fairly certain it does use a 25L6. According to all the information I found online, IBM often used them in groups of 6 for counter/multiplier or driver applications. Without seeing prints, there is no way for me to know if they used them as drivers or counters, but either way, I doubt the punch will work very well with a missing tube. Do the heaters of the other 5 tubes in the same row glow? IBM may have used 6x 25V heaters in series to avoid using a voltage regulator. If you find a source for the 25L6, and especially the IBM branded tube, get at least a couple of extras. Tubes are generally very robust, but they don't like being jarred around, and theres no telling what kind of abuse the current tubes have been though. According to this usenet article from 1995, the 026 used 6 25L6 tubes in a row as drivers: http://groups.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=41nefs%241a90%40bigblue.oit.unc.edu This article states basically the same thing: http://groups.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=3C194D05.143E4168%40zianet.com > I'd hate to plug in the wrong tube and then witness volumnious amounts > of smoke billow from within the machine. Can someone verify that the > 25L6 is indeed the correct tube for the empty socket? Well, the tubes are not likely to smoke, but old capacitors are... I'm guessing that you've already powered the unit up by now, but I'd recommend using a variac to bring the voltage up slowly when first powering up old equipment such as this when it has been stored for a long time. Bringing it up to full voltage slowly allows slow reformation of older caps that would otherwise fail with a loud 'bang', which would usually take a few other parts (most often resistors) with them. Note that modern equipment often does not like this procedure, especially when it uses a SMPSU. -Toth From Arno_1983 at gmx.de Wed Jun 5 00:54:40 2002 From: Arno_1983 at gmx.de (Arno Kletzander) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: [OT:] "VGA loop cable" pinout for Hauppauge WinTV Prism Message-ID: <8246.1023256480@www19.gmx.net> Hello guys, this item is almost certainly not to be considered "classic" yet, but it also isn't "leading edge" any more, is it? I'm asking here because even with hours of googling, I wasn't able to find a pinout for the missing cable and I figured that somebody on the list might have the thing and be willing to meter it out for me. The installation procedure tells you to disconnect the monitor from your graphics card, connect it to the TV card and plug the loop cable into the graphics and the TV card. It is the exterior cable that I didn't get (DE15HD -> Mini-DIN-7); I have the interior "feature connector" ribbon cable. If you could tell me which pins to connect, I should be able to solder a replacement cable. Many thanks in advance Arno Kletzander Arno_1983@gmx.de -- GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet. http://www.gmx.net From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jun 5 00:54:50 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <02060421085600.01118@sputnik> Message-ID: >Well what's the cheapest way to get into somthing running real VMS? Even for >a single user (can I connect it to my home network and telnet to it from >linux) On the dirt cheap end you can go for a VS3100 series system, though I'd recommend something like a VAXstation 4000/vlc as a minimum personally. The VAXstation 4000/60's and 90's are pretty nice. However, anymore I tend to consider a DEC Alpha the way to go. My main system is a DEC PWS 433au. >BTW I have PC-DCL (HMM gotta look up the source on that to see if it can be a >linux shell.....) Someone has a DCL shell you can get, it's a commercial product, but you can download the shell for personal use. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Wed Jun 5 01:43:53 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: SURVEY: Powering big iron in your home. References: <200206050228.g552Sxo14352@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3CFDB329.9030704@aurora.regenstrief.org> Zane H. Healy wrote: > Now my question is, what are you doing about cooling? I know the /44 will > get my folks garage up to a comfortable temp fairly quickly in the winter, > and it can only be run in the morning in the summer. The basement is not too bad even in the summer. It gets nice and warm indeed. The garage I don't know yet as my 11/780 didn't really see much use that (waiting for its replacement parts to come in a few days.) thanks -Gunther PS: William and James, I appreciate your help. It sounds like with a few pointed changes like the subpanel in the garage and an additional checking on the split bolts I might be just fine. It's good to have reasonable advice like that. And darn, I knew that my 50 A neutral calculation was bogus, I just was carried away :-) -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jun 5 03:13:42 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Motorola S-record converter source for new project In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: [CCTECH] Motorola S-record converter source for new project" (Jun 5, 0:09) References: Message-ID: <10206050913.ZM19493@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 5, 0:09, Tony Duell wrote: > > S-records. There is a nice source code file that exists for reading/writing > > Intel HEX files but I haven't been able to find a similar one for S-records. > Earlier this evening I was thinking about a project that will involve (in > part) translating binary to/from IntelHex (or Motorola S-record would do, > actually). Can you give me a URL for that source code you mentioned (or > any other source code for a simular program). Ages ago, I wrote a "loader" that will convert Intel HEX records to binary, on a Unix machine (or about anything else with a C compiler). It's quite powerful, being designed to handle multiple files, sparse files, patch files, etc, for EPROM programmers. I planned to make a whole set of HEX -> binary, HEX -> S-record, S-record -> binary, etc, but I never quite finished. Most of this has been available on my web site for a while, and I've just added a couple of files for anyone who wants them. http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/IntelHEX/ IntelHEX.txt is a simple explanation of comon HEX records (as used by CP/M and some programmers, for example) S-records.txt is a similar explanation of S-records (not written by me) ihex.tar is the source/manpage for a binary-to-HEX converter, written by my friend James Carter mload.tar is the source/manpage for my HEX-to-binary and S-record-to-hex converters, along with some notes. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Wed Jun 5 06:04:41 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <02060421085600.01118@sputnik> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020605210315.027e28c0@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 09:08 PM 4/06/2002 -0700, Ron Hudson wrote: >Well what's the cheapest way to get into somthing running real VMS? Even for >a single user (can I connect it to my home network and telnet to it from >linux) Assuming you've already got a reasonably fast PC running linux, the easiest way into VMS ownership is a simulated VAX (either SIMH or TS10). On my 500MHz alpha, SIMH gives me a 2VUP VAX. On a 2GHz IA32 it should really fly. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jun 5 08:05:26 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:00 2005 Subject: TI optoelectronics datasheet Message-ID: I've got a couple Texas Instruments DIS1291's, and can't find a datasheet for them. If anyone has a TI optoelectronics databook from around 1981 or so and could put up a scan of the datasheet, I'd be most grateful. These displays are made up of 6 tiny numeric displays in an extra long (20 pin length, 1") 16 pin dip package. -Toth From hansp at aconit.org Wed Jun 5 08:39:06 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: Replacement tube for IBM 026 Printing Card Punch References: Message-ID: <3CFE147A.6080704@aconit.org> Tothwolf wrote: > On Tue, 4 Jun 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > >>So I'm off to look for a 25L6 tube for my IBM 026. John Lawson says >>that the tube is a 25L6 because all the other tubes in the rack are >>25L6 types and he believes they are hammer drivers. Not to doubt the >>venerable Mr. Lawson, since he did used to service these, but I just >>want to make sure this is in fact the right tube type that goes into >>the socket that is currently empty. See photo here: > > > I'm fairly certain it does use a 25L6. According to all the information I > found online, IBM often used them in groups of 6 for counter/multiplier or > driver applications. Without seeing prints, there is no way for me to know > if they used them as drivers or counters, but either way, I doubt the > punch will work very well with a missing tube. Well we have an 026 at ACONIT, I was there today but othe errands got in the way of checking it out, my next visit is scheduled for Friday and I will try and remember. -- hbp From wstan at xs4all.nl Wed Jun 5 08:42:55 2002 From: wstan at xs4all.nl (William S.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <02060421085600.01118@sputnik>; from rhudson@cnonline.net on Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 09:08:56PM -0700 References: <02060421085600.01118@sputnik> Message-ID: <20020605154255.A6468@xs4all.nl> There definately is a certain appeal to having a VAX. I really appreciate the style they have when compared to the typical PC. For the time being, here is my present inventory: http://213.84.71.105/ On Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 09:08:56PM -0700, Ron Hudson wrote: > > Well what's the cheapest way to get into somthing running real VMS? Even for > a single user (can I connect it to my home network and telnet to it from > linux) > > (wishing for authorize just one more time....) > > BTW I have PC-DCL (HMM gotta look up the source on that to see if it can be a > linux shell.....) > -- Bill Amsterdam, NL From hansp at aconit.org Wed Jun 5 08:43:25 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: Diagnosing a non-working Mac Performa 476? References: Message-ID: <3CFE157D.1060108@aconit.org> Chris wrote: > But with all this, I suspect the problem will be a bad PRAM battery, or a > need to press the CUDA button. You are da man!! I had three 475 units all exhibiting the same no video symptoms. All come up when I replaced their battery. The start-up sound is the same with the old or the new battery. I don't understand how Apple could have designed a unit where a degradable component could stop the system working with no visible or audio indication. Anyways, thanks for the fix, it worked for me. -- hbp From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Wed Jun 5 09:01:13 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <02060421085600.01118@sputnik> Message-ID: <002901c20c99$741d44c0$023ca8c0@blafleur> When I first read your message, I saw "real" VMS and assumed you were talking about a REAL system, not am emulator. But maybe you're not aware of the emulators, and they might be good enough for you, if you're just itching to play with that $ prompt for a while. I started with an emulator, but quickly realized that I wanted a REAL system. There are 3 emulators that I know of that work OK. * SIMH is the one I like the best. It still has a few weird bugs, but nothing that will stop it from running VMS though, and maybe some of the problems I've experienced under WIN32 don't occur under Linux. Frequent updates from the author (although none in a month or so). No network support, although you can TELNET to a simulated terminal driver. * TS10 - I don't know much about this one, although I've heard good things. Mainly for Linux, and since I don't currently have a linux system running, I haven't even tried to compile it in WIN32. Network support is currently being added, and I understand it semi-works so far. * PicoVAX - A mini version of a commercial product. Sessions are time limited to 3 hours, and you can't telnet to it. Currently only emulates a MicroVAX II, whereas the other emulators emulate more recent models. If you decide to go with a REAL system, if your experience of VMS is from many years ago and you want to recreate those memories, you might rather have a VAX than ALPHA system. VMS on ALPHA is basically the same, but there are some differences. I'm not as familiar with the MicroVAX 4000's as I am with the 3100's. I think the 4000-xx (two digit numbers) are VAX and the 4000-xxx (3 digits) are ALPHA? Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Also, I think the 4000's are QBUS, with some of them having SCSI also? Are there any SCSI-only 4000 models? If you just want to play for a while, "run authorize" just one more time as you put it, then an emulator might give you what you want. But if you really want to get back into the VAX, you might find in the long-run that a real piece of hardware will serve you better. - Bob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ron Hudson Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:09 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine Well what's the cheapest way to get into somthing running real VMS? Even for a single user (can I connect it to my home network and telnet to it from linux) (wishing for authorize just one more time....) BTW I have PC-DCL (HMM gotta look up the source on that to see if it can be a linux shell.....) Ron. From rhudson at cnonline.net Wed Jun 5 09:42:44 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <002901c20c99$741d44c0$023ca8c0@blafleur> References: <002901c20c99$741d44c0$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <02060507424400.01744@sputnik> On Wednesday 05 June 2002 07:01 am, you wrote: > When I first read your message, I saw "real" VMS and assumed you were > talking about a REAL system, not am emulator. But maybe you're not aware > of the emulators, and they might be good enough for you, if you're just > itching to play with that $ prompt for a while. I started with an > emulator, but quickly realized that I wanted a REAL system. Actually, I run RSTS on the simh pdp11 simulator. If I can run VMS on a simh VAX simulator, that would be OK. and my laptop dual boots Win98 / Linux Redhat 7. Being able to telnet in would become a "It would be nice" if the VAX is simulated on my "main workstation" I think the version of VMS I was exposed to is 3.xx, no command line history (cuz I had to do that myself in DCL) How do I get started? ron From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Wed Jun 5 09:51:21 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <02060507424400.01744@sputnik> Message-ID: <003101c20ca0$771d3a20$023ca8c0@blafleur> > How do I get started? Go here to download the latest SIMH: http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 5 10:00:52 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <02060507424400.01744@sputnik> Message-ID: <20020605150052.80218.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ron Hudson wrote: > I think the version of VMS I was exposed to is 3.xx, no command line > history (cuz I had to do that myself in DCL) Are there any VMS distros available that are that old? I have some upgrade tapes (TU-58) for VMS 3.x, but they require a base installation (and not all of my tapes were legible after this many years; only about 85% completely read) I, too, got my start back in those days - I didn't know much of what I was doing at the time, but my first VMS exposure was on an 11/750 with an RA81 (the $26,000 drive I mentioned recently) running VMS 3.6. Shortly after I started that job (Autumn, 1984), we moved up to VMS 4.0, and I haven't seen a VMS 3.x system since. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Jun 5 10:13:29 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: OT: eBay insanity Message-ID: It's OT, but here's a humorous bit of eBay Insanity to cheer up everyone's morning (or afternoon or evening depending on time zone) ... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1357633571 -- Pat From bdwheele at indiana.edu Wed Jun 5 10:31:24 2002 From: bdwheele at indiana.edu (brian wheeler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: OT: eBay insanity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1023291084.3468.4.camel@wombat> On Wed, 2002-06-05 at 10:13, Pat Finnegan wrote: > It's OT, but here's a humorous bit of eBay Insanity to cheer up > everyone's morning (or afternoon or evening depending on time zone) ... > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1357633571 > > -- Pat That's just sick...I'm a big fan. One has to wonder if people are just that stupid or if they are the seller's accomplices... Brian From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Wed Jun 5 10:52:31 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: TI optoelectronics datasheet References: Message-ID: <3CFE33BF.974C8621@Vishay.com> Toth, while looking for 7-segment displays more in general, I ran across a data book that has some information about TI's TIL360 displays, which seem to match your description of the outline (16pin dip, 1.02" long by .4" wide, digit height .1"). The data book has a 1978 date, a bit older than your chips. Not the exact type, but this is what I have about the TIL360. YMMV, but perhaps at least the pinout might be similar. Common cathode type red LED, 1.65...2.0V, 10mA typ., .016mcd Pin 1 C segments 2 NC 3 Character 2 4 D segments 5 Character 4 6 Character 6 7 E segments 8 Decimal Points 9 G segments 10 NC 11 Character 5 12 A segments 13 Character 3 14 Character 1 15 B segments 16 F segments Tothwolf wrote: > > I've got a couple Texas Instruments DIS1291's, and can't find a datasheet > for them. If anyone has a TI optoelectronics databook from around 1981 or > so and could put up a scan of the datasheet, I'd be most grateful. These > displays are made up of 6 tiny numeric displays in an extra long (20 pin > length, 1") 16 pin dip package. > > -Toth -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Jun 5 11:13:31 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: Replacement tube for IBM 026 Printing Card Punch In-Reply-To: <3CFE147A.6080704@aconit.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Hans B Pufal wrote: > Tothwolf wrote: > > On Tue, 4 Jun 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: [snippage] > > > > Well we have an 026 at ACONIT, I was there today but othe errands got in > the way of checking it out, my next visit is scheduled for Friday and I > will try and remember. That would be Very Cool! Just the types and positions would be very helpful - thanks in advance! I think they're all the same type, but it's better to be certain, rather than using 'magic smoke' as a determinant. ;} Cheers John > > -- hbp > > > From allain at panix.com Wed Jun 5 11:14:36 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: eBay insanity References: Message-ID: <000f01c20cac$16d10320$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I actually do this, with corded handsets. I'm not too broad shouldered and we had rubberbands there at the company for holding down reel tape leaders that were perfect. Only did it for emergency phonecalls which were infrequent. John A. From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Jun 5 11:22:13 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: This seems on topic for this group and is > 10 years old... In-Reply-To: <10206050913.ZM19493@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020605112213.0094fdd0@ubanproductions.com> Title of item: 1984 BOR-5 Russian Space Shuttle Proto-Type Seller: kruseintl Starts: May-28-02 14:40:59 PDT Ends: Jun-07-02 14:40:59 PDT Price: Currently $75,200.00 To bid on the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1832679719 Item Description: 1984 BOR-5 Russian Space Shuttle Proto-Type From allain at panix.com Wed Jun 5 11:25:24 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: OT: eBay Motors References: <000f01c20cac$16d10320$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <000701c20cad$b25537c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> While I don't believe that there are too few postings about eBay,Insanity, or OTicism itself, here's a news item: 1984 BOR-5 Russian Space Shuttle Prototype ....on (drumroll)... eBay Motors http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1832679719 John A. respond to me directly, I guess, to cut down on OT traffic. From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Jun 5 11:41:00 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: Replacement tube for IBM 026 Printing Card Punch In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Do the heaters of the other 5 tubes in the same row glow? IBM may have > used 6x 25V heaters in series to avoid using a voltage regulator. IBM used 25L6 because of the large amount of 24 Volt control systems in there machines for the relays, timers, solenoids, and so forth. Basically, it was handy. Keep in mind that it may be intended that the socket is empty - perhaps for an option not installed in Sellam's machine. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jun 5 11:44:44 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: TI optoelectronics datasheet In-Reply-To: <3CFE33BF.974C8621@Vishay.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > while looking for 7-segment displays more in general, I ran across a > data book that has some information about TI's TIL360 displays, which > seem to match your description of the outline (16pin dip, 1.02" long > by .4" wide, digit height .1"). The data book has a 1978 date, a bit > older than your chips. I think these might be a little wider (actually, I guess that would be height, since these displays are intended to be mounted horizontally) than .4", but .1" sounds about right for the digit height. The digits in these things look tiny... Maybe I ended up with a batch of custom or house marked parts? > Not the exact type, but this is what I have about the TIL360. YMMV, > but perhaps at least the pinout might be similar. I'll check it with a meter and see if TI might have used the same pinout. Thanks. A quick Google search for TIL360 turned up [http://www.datamath.org/Display/Display.htm], which has information on some other similar displays. Based on what I've read, I'd guess that the DIS1291 displays I have were indeed intended to be used in calculators. -Toth From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Wed Jun 5 11:46:04 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: Replacement tube for IBM 026 Printing Card Punch In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Just the types and positions would be very helpful - thanks in advance! > I think they're all the same type, but it's better to be certain, rather > than using 'magic smoke' as a determinant. ;} > > Cheers > > John If you do a google groups search for: floyd sense 026 ibm In the first hit you will find a message by Floyd Sense who states that he serviced the 026 and that it only used one type of tube. The complete thread references the 25L6GT IBM branded tube. From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jun 5 11:47:21 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <20020605150052.80218.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> References: <02060507424400.01744@sputnik> Message-ID: >--- Ron Hudson wrote: >> I think the version of VMS I was exposed to is 3.xx, no command line >> history (cuz I had to do that myself in DCL) > >Are there any VMS distros available that are that old? I have some >upgrade tapes (TU-58) for VMS 3.x, but they require a base installation >(and not all of my tapes were legible after this many years; only >about 85% completely read) I'm sure there are people that have it, however, there aren't any publically available copies that I'm aware of. To the best of my knowledge the oldest version that has been made publically available would be VAX/VMS V5.5 on the original Hobbyist CD (which is no longer available). Personally the oldest I've gotten ahold of is something like 4.4 (if that old), and unfortunatly I'm not sure what condition the TK50 tapes are in. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From meltie at myrealbox.com Wed Jun 5 11:56:14 2002 From: meltie at myrealbox.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: References: <02060507424400.01744@sputnik> Message-ID: <1023296177.3653.0.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> On Wed, 2002-06-05 at 17:47, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >--- Ron Hudson wrote: > >> I think the version of VMS I was exposed to is 3.xx, no command line > >> history (cuz I had to do that myself in DCL) > > > >Are there any VMS distros available that are that old? I have some > >upgrade tapes (TU-58) for VMS 3.x, but they require a base installation > >(and not all of my tapes were legible after this many years; only > >about 85% completely read) > > I'm sure there are people that have it, however, there aren't any > publically available copies that I'm aware of. To the best of my knowledge > the oldest version that has been made publically available would be VAX/VMS > V5.5 on the original Hobbyist CD (which is no longer available). > Personally the oldest I've gotten ahold of is something like 4.4 (if that > old), and unfortunatly I'm not sure what condition the TK50 tapes are in. I have 11/750 VMS install TK50s down to version three, but no operable way to read them... Alex -- My computer's heavier than yours. From fernande at internet1.net Wed Jun 5 12:05:40 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: eBay insanity References: <000f01c20cac$16d10320$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3CFE44E4.3070809@internet1.net> John Allain wrote: > I actually do this, with corded handsets. I'm not too broad shouldered > and we had rubberbands there at the company for holding down reel > tape leaders that were perfect. > Only did it for emergency phonecalls which were infrequent. > > John A. I've actually been emailed a version of that Ebay listing..... I think it started out as one of those chain emails, rather than an auction. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 5 12:35:24 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <3CFD9E46.7090105@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20020605173524.10017.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Chad Fernandez wrote: > Bob Lafleur wrote: > >.... 3100-96 (3100-98) at something like 38 VUPs (38 x the > > speed of the original VAX 780 on your desktop!). > > Wow, he has a Vax 780 on his desk!! That must be quite a desk!! :-) I don't even want to contemplate an 11/780 laptop... -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 5 12:41:35 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <001f01c20c4b$00682160$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <20020605174135.95965.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bob Lafleur wrote: > There's also the slightly smaller MicroVAX 2000, kind-of in a square-ish > box, and significantly slower (0.9 VUPs). Not SCSI compatible, really. And dependent on harder-and-harder-to-get disk drives. > If available, I'd stick with a 3100. Good choice. > CD-ROM drive is a good thing to have for loading software. Speaking of which, what would it take (DCL script, binaries, etc.) to move older VMS distros (VMS 5.5-2 comes to mind) from magtape to CD-ROM for installation on those platforms that have one but not the other. I have a box of VMS 4.x and VMS 5.x magtape and standalone TU58s and RX50s. I want to create a CD-ROM that acts like a VMS 6.1 CD for installation under, say, simh. I know I can extract saveset files, etc., to install VMS under simh. I want to package the savesets in a more modern fashion and save a step or two at install time. Is this possible? I have a SCSI CD-R drive (Smart & Friendly 2006, a rebadged Sony 926) and SCSI magtape on an AXP/VMS box. I presume there is a version of cdrecord for VMS, or an equivalent. Is there an ODS-1 or OSD-2 equivalent of mkisofs for VMS? Does there have to be? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 5 12:49:34 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: SURVEY: Powering big iron in your home. In-Reply-To: <200206050228.g552Sxo14352@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20020605174934.11349.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > I wanted to conduct some survey of the common practices (which > > may or may not be good practices) to powering your very own mini > > and maxi big iron in your home.... > > Well, the biggest I've got in our apartment is my PDP-11/73, and a > couple of PDP-8's. They're small enough they plug into a normal wall > socket. .. I have two boxes at home that will not power off of a normal wall socket. My recently-aquired DEC 4000 has a 20A NEMA plug (blades are like (- |) not (| |), and my VAX 8200 has a 30A Twist-n-Lock. Long ago, I stole the dual breaker slot from the electric stove (I have a gas stove; the kitchen is plumbed for either) and replaced it with two singles. One single is a 30A that runs to a Twist-n-Lock in a box next to the breaker panel. To power the Alpha, I just unplugged everything from the power sequencer in the BA32 cabinet (the other end of that 30A cable) and plugged the Alpha into it (the sequencer _has_ 20A 110V plugs (-| |) I just run one CPU or the other. If I need to run both, I suppose I'll go to Lowes and get a 20A duplex outlet and wire it into its own 20A breaker (not off a branch circuit). My house only has a 100A feed from the pole - it's a 90-year-old house that used to have a printing press in the garage, so the garage took 100A from the pole, and the house took 100A from the pole. The garage was torn down before I bought the place :-( but it had its own electric meter. Now it's a blank plate, but the house is still stuck with 100A unless I cared to activate (and fully wire) the second meter. I need a gas dryer now. :-) -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From meltie at myrealbox.com Wed Jun 5 12:54:24 2002 From: meltie at myrealbox.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <20020605173524.10017.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020605173524.10017.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1023299667.3989.1.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> On Wed, 2002-06-05 at 18:35, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Chad Fernandez wrote: > > Bob Lafleur wrote: > > >.... 3100-96 (3100-98) at something like 38 VUPs (38 x the > > > speed of the original VAX 780 on your desktop!). > > > > Wow, he has a Vax 780 on his desk!! That must be quite a desk!! :-) > > I don't even want to contemplate an 11/780 laptop... Oh wow. A lappy in DEC 11/780 grey/blue booting into an emulator... *drool* Alex -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 5 12:58:41 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: SURVEY: Powering big iron in your home. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020605175841.12792.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- William Donzelli wrote: > As the son of an electrician, I can say that it is *always* good to do it > properly. Houses burn down due to faulty wiring all the time. No kidding. Some of the houses around here still have knob-and-tube. My mother's house developed a short when I was a kid - the electricity went in *after* the furnace, and the cloth-wrapped wires were run right *through* the cold-air return. Seventy-some years later, the motion of the floor joists cut through the insulation and the duct closed the circuit. 1/3 of the house was off the grid. :-( -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jun 5 13:02:38 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <20020605174135.95965.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> References: <001f01c20c4b$00682160$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: >Speaking of which, what would it take (DCL script, binaries, etc.) to >move older VMS distros (VMS 5.5-2 comes to mind) from magtape to CD-ROM >for installation on those platforms that have one but not the other. 5.5 is available on CD, it's just not easy to get. >I have a box of VMS 4.x and VMS 5.x magtape and standalone TU58s and >RX50s. I want to create a CD-ROM that acts like a VMS 6.1 CD for >installation under, say, simh. I know I can extract saveset files, etc., >to install VMS under simh. I want to package the savesets in a >more modern fashion and save a step or two at install time. > >Is this possible? I have a SCSI CD-R drive (Smart & Friendly 2006, a >rebadged Sony 926) and SCSI magtape on an AXP/VMS box. I presume >there is a version of cdrecord for VMS, or an equivalent. Is there an >ODS-1 or OSD-2 equivalent of mkisofs for VMS? Does there have to be? What you want instead of mkisofs is something called the "Logical Disk Driver", IIRC. That allows you to create a CD sized ODS-2 logical disk that you can copy stuff onto. Somehow you'd need to get Standalone Backup installed on that logical disk. Then copy all the savesets from tape to disk. Actually on second thought this would probably be easiest on a SCSI based VAX with an RZ25. Get the RZ25 setup the way you want (getting Standalone Backup on it wouldn't be any problem), copy the images, and then pull the RZ25 and stick it in a Linux box and 'dd' it off to an image file and write the image file to CD-R. This is basically what I do with the PDP-11. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 5 13:03:51 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: SURVEY: Powering big iron in your home. In-Reply-To: <006101c20c27$7a6fcb80$6d469280@y5f3q8> Message-ID: <20020605180351.66710.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Robert Schaefer wrote: > I have a converted VAX 6320 in the basement... > My company is currently in the process of decommissioning a > 20KW 480/277V generator. If I can rewire that to 208/120V it might just > end up comming home with me to live. What we did when we had VAXen in an industrial park in North Columbus that only provided a 480V feed to tenants, was to go with a 2-drawer- file-cabinet-sized transformer. Obviously, you'd have some loss through another level of conversion, but it might be easier than rewiring a generator. > That and a small UPS will make me totally independant of the power grid! But at what cost per kWH? Rates around here are well under $0.10/kWH. Might even be as low as $0.07/kWH, off-peak (not summertime ;-) What fuel source does that generator take? -ethan > > Oh, hang on... The RA92 is plugged in to the top of the two externally > available IEC plugs, just above the power cord, and fused at 10A. > Perhaps > Field Circus was out of 10A fuses, and it was replaced with an > identical-sized 2A fuse? :) > > > > > regards, > > -Gunther > > Bob > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Jun 5 13:05:07 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine Message-ID: >I have a box of VMS 4.x and VMS 5.x magtape and standalone TU58s and >RX50s. I want to create a CD-ROM that acts like a VMS 6.1 CD for >installation under, say, simh. I know I can extract saveset files, etc., >to install VMS under simh. I want to package the savesets in a >more modern fashion and save a step or two at install time. I assume you have access to a VMS box that can read the relevant media. If so you can create a container disk using LDDRIVER (or one of the many other equivalent freeware utilities). Then use VMSINSTAL to extract the savesets (all the savesets) to [000000] on this disk. You may or may not have to manually intervene since VMSINSTAL depends on saveset naming conventions that may not have been applied in the V4 days. Assuming you fill in the blanks above, you will end up with a bunch of valid savesets in [000000]. You can now use STABACKIT to make the LD disk bootable into Standalone BACKUP. (If you feel like it, you can put a complete OpenVMS system on there ... you might as well since your kits *must* reside in [0,0] to work!!). Now disconnect and dismount the LD disk and burn the contianer file to CD as a block-by-block binary (CDR-Win and Gear can both do this, Easy CD cannot AFAIK and Nero and Clone CD I have not used enough to have a worthwhile opinion). You can, assuming you are set up to do this, burn directly from OpenVMS with CDRECORD. >Is this possible? I have a SCSI CD-R drive (Smart & Friendly 2006, a >rebadged Sony 926) and SCSI magtape on an AXP/VMS box. I presume >there is a version of cdrecord for VMS, or an equivalent. Is there an >ODS-1 or OSD-2 equivalent of mkisofs for VMS? Does there have to be? For the above method you do not need mkisofs since you are building an ODS-2 disk. If, however, SIMH won't accept an ODS-2 CDROM, you'll have to do a binary FTP of the savesets to a PC and burn from there (although how SIMH can cope with the result, I do not know) or pick up the OpenVMS mkisofs (I have a pointer somewhere ...) and use that directly. Antonio From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 5 13:15:31 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020605181531.94067.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >Speaking of which, what would it take (DCL script, binaries, etc.) to > >move older VMS distros (VMS 5.5-2 comes to mind) from magtape to CD-ROM > >for installation on those platforms that have one but not the other. > > 5.5 is available on CD, it's just not easy to get. If I had it, I wouldn't be asking. :-) > What you want instead of mkisofs is something called the "Logical Disk > Driver", IIRC. That allows you to create a CD sized ODS-2 logical disk > that you can copy stuff onto. Is that a DEC (HP) product or Freeware? > Actually on second thought this would probably be easiest on a SCSI based > VAX with an RZ25. How about a SCSI-based Alpha? And how about an RZ26 that isn't more than 65% full? If physical size really matters, I could throw an ST1480 drive on the Alpha and have 424MB - plenty of room for this task. > Get the RZ25 setup the way you want (getting Standalone Backup on it > wouldn't be any problem), Would it be a problem for cross-platform? I know it's easy to make a disk on your own machine bootable to standalone (SYSE and whatnot). I guess given the DCL script to make the standalone partition in the first place, it wouldn't be impossible to modify it to pull from someplace other than SYS$SYSROOT. Considering that I want to use an AXP/VMS 6.1 system to build a bootable VAX/VMS 5.x system, I really would have to be able to work from something other than SYS$SYSROOT. I have plenty of empty disk (5 SCSI buses on this beast - two with 4 drives and no external connectors and three with external connectors (and a variety of devices already present), so I could unpack the VMS 5.5 saveset to its own disk and use its "make standalone" script to create the target filesystem on yet _another_ disk. Pity it probably won't fit on a ZIP disk - I'll have to physically move a drive from machine to machine. > ...pull the RZ25 and stick it in a Linux box and 'dd' it off to an image > file and write the image file to CD-R. That's the easy part. I'll probably do it on SPARCstation instead of an Intel Linux box, but that's no big deal. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jun 5 13:25:27 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: SURVEY: Powering big iron in your home. In-Reply-To: <20020605180351.66710.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Robert Schaefer wrote: > > > I have a converted VAX 6320 in the basement... > > My company is currently in the process of decommissioning a > > 20KW 480/277V generator. If I can rewire that to 208/120V it might just > > end up comming home with me to live. > > What we did when we had VAXen in an industrial park in North Columbus > that only provided a 480V feed to tenants, was to go with a 2-drawer- > file-cabinet-sized transformer. Obviously, you'd have some loss > through another level of conversion, but it might be easier than > rewiring a generator. I've seen those conversion transformers resold at surplus auctions for very little money (less than $100). It appears that scrap metal dealers want them for their metal content, but don't want to pay much. -Toth From rschaefe at gcfn.org Wed Jun 5 13:28:47 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: SURVEY: Powering big iron in your home. In-Reply-To: <20020605180351.66710.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020605180351.66710.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <64929.128.146.70.100.1023301727.squirrel@www.gcfn.org> > > --- Robert Schaefer wrote: >> I have a converted VAX 6320 in the basement... >> My company is currently in the process of decommissioning a >> 20KW 480/277V generator. If I can rewire that to 208/120V it might >> just end up comming home with me to live. > > What we did when we had VAXen in an industrial park in North Columbus > that only provided a 480V feed to tenants, was to go with a 2-drawer- > file-cabinet-sized transformer. Obviously, you'd have some loss > through another level of conversion, but it might be easier than > rewiring a generator. Occasionally they are tapped for either. I haven't seen it yet, but I have my fingers crossed. > >> That and a small UPS will make me totally independant of the power >> grid! > > But at what cost per kWH? Rates around here are well under $0.10/kWH. > Might even be as low as $0.07/kWH, off-peak (not summertime ;-) What > fuel source does that generator take? Natural gas. It'd be just for backup, not to replace the grid. After watching a few automatic transfer systems in operation, I just can't hardly resist. What would go better with a large, unnecessary computer than a large, unnecessary backup system? :) > > -ethan Bob From thomas at pdp7.org Wed Jun 5 07:29:48 2002 From: thomas at pdp7.org (Thomas Strathmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Motorola S-record converter source for new project In-Reply-To: <3CFD4813.3060600@aurora.regenstrief.org> References: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E501371937@MAIL10> <3CFD4813.3060600@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <20020605122948.GA1720@adams> Gunther Schadow wrote: > Hey, I just yesterday saw mention in GNU binutils that can read > S-records. Google for GNU binutils and s-records and I'm sure > you'll find out more. Or see around the crossgcc FAQ. Yes, it's the program 'objcopy'. It can be used to convert different binary formats. Thomas -- Thomas S. Strathmann http://pdp7.org The IBM PC was created by people who drank alcohol. The Mac was created by people who smoked pot. _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From sieler at allegro.com Wed Jun 5 13:19:29 2002 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: Commodore floppy drives; faster than you can type Message-ID: <3CFDF3C1.23624.1ECA33A6@localhost> Hi, I recall reading a line on/near/inside a Commodore 64 SX box advertising that their floppy disk drive: "Reads data faster than you can type". Is my memory playing tricks on me, or did Commodore really use such a line (or something quite similar)? Any pointers would be appreciated. BTW, I wasn't convinced that it *could* read data faster than I could type :) thanks, StanStan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Jun 5 13:42:15 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine Message-ID: >> 5.5 is available on CD, it's just not easy to get. > >If I had it, I wouldn't be asking. :-) Do you mean 5.5 or 5.5-2? I certainly have the latter (as, I expect, do many others) and I may have the former. Assuming you have a hobbyist licence and can find wherever it is that says given the licence, you can have someone make you a copy, then I can cartainly do that - although you may find it easier to get someone in the US to do it for you. >Is that a DEC (HP) product or Freeware? LDDRIVER was a midnight project by an engineer inside DEC and is now on the Freeware CDs (and is accessible on the Web from the OpenVMS home page - browse the latest online Freeware CD). >> Actually on second thought this would probably be easiest on a SCSI based >> VAX with an RZ25. > >How about a SCSI-based Alpha? If you want to build a bootable VAX disk (even just S/A BACKUP then using aVAX and a container file is by far the easiest way). You can pull apart STABACKIT.COm from a VAX distribution and see what it does and replicate by hand - but it's a fair amount of work! > And how about an RZ26 that isn't more than >65% full? If physical size really matters, I could throw an ST1480 >drive on the Alpha and have 424MB - plenty of room for this task. The trick is to use a container disk that is no more than 650MB (or 700MB). The problem is that your RZ26 has too much room and you have no control where things go unless you work at it very hard - it's just *so* much easier to use LDRIVER and a container file (on your RZ26 if you like). >Would it be a problem for cross-platform? I know it's easy to make No - just cluster a VAX with you Alpha for a while and let it take the strain :-) Antonio From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 5 13:42:43 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: SURVEY: Powering big iron in your home. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020605184243.41722.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tothwolf wrote: > On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > What we did when we had VAXen in an industrial park in North Columbus > > that only provided a 480V feed to tenants, was to go with a 2-drawer- > > file-cabinet-sized transformer. > > I've seen those conversion transformers resold at surplus auctions for > very little money (less than $100). It appears that scrap metal dealers > want them for their metal content, but don't want to pay much. ISTR we paid $500 for new one in 1988 - 30KVA, IIRC. I wouldn't want to pay more than $100 for a used one today. Hopefully, I won't ever have to worry about them. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Jun 5 13:45:11 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: Old Sony Optical Drive In-Reply-To: <000801c20c08$5457b120$c249e30c@attbi.com>; from scotto@attbi.com on Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 22:42:20 CEST References: <000801c20c08$5457b120$c249e30c@attbi.com> Message-ID: <20020605204511.A127692@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.06.04 22:42 Scott A. Orlowski wrote: > SMO-C501-00 magneto optical drive. [...] > But when I insert a disk, it spins up, then down, then up, then down, > etc. etc. etc. Move that crap to the trash. I have 5 or 6 of this drives and they are all broken. My Rico (same age) Yust Works. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 5 13:50:36 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <1023296177.3653.0.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> Message-ID: <20020605185036.23727.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Alex White wrote: > On Wed, 2002-06-05 at 17:47, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > >--- Ron Hudson wrote: > > ...the oldest version that has been made publically available > > would be VAX/VMS V5.5 on the original Hobbyist CD (which is no > > longer available). Is it legal to distribute an ISO file of that to people with a hobby license? I have the later Hobbyist CD, but would love to have a copy of the original one. > I have 11/750 VMS install TK50s down to version three, but no operable > way to read them... Are you sure about the media? The TK50 came out a long time after VMS V3.x. The first machine I saw with a TK50 was a MicroVAX-II. Might you have TU-58s for the 11/750? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 5 13:56:31 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020605185631.24663.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Antonio Carlini wrote: > >> 5.5 is available on CD, it's just not easy to get. > > > >If I had it, I wouldn't be asking. :-) > > Do you mean 5.5 or 5.5-2? IIRC, I have all the patch tapes and distros up to, but not including 6.0, so I should have VMS 5.5-2 on magtape. > If you want to build a bootable VAX disk (even > just S/A BACKUP then using aVAX and a container file > is by far the easiest way). You can pull apart STABACKIT.COm > from a VAX distribution and see what it does and > replicate by hand - but it's a fair amount of work! I know it's a busy script - I've looked at it in the past. > The problem is that your RZ26 has too much room and you have no > control where things go unless you work at it very hard True. I was thinking that a mostly-empty 1GB disk wouldn't have blocks allocated from the top, but you are right - I have no control over where stuff goes. > >Would it be a problem for cross-platform? I know it's easy to make > > No - just cluster a VAX with you Alpha for a > while and let it take the strain :-) My best VAX processor is either the 8200 or a MicroVAX-II. Neither have Ethernet at the moment (I'm working on getting a DEBNT going). For all the years I was earning a living with VAXen, we never networked ours faster than 56kbps or clustered any of them - all local disks and sync DDCMP/HASP interconnections with Kermit occasionally thrown in to small VAXen that lacked a sync serial port. So at clustering, I'm a complete novice. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From rschaefe at gcfn.org Wed Jun 5 13:56:12 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: SURVEY: Powering big iron in your home. In-Reply-To: <20020605184243.41722.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020605184243.41722.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <65195.128.146.70.100.1023303372.squirrel@www.gcfn.org> > > --- Tothwolf wrote: >> On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: >> > What we did when we had VAXen in an industrial park in North >> > Columbus that only provided a 480V feed to tenants, was to go with a >> > 2-drawer- file-cabinet-sized transformer. >> >> I've seen those conversion transformers resold at surplus auctions for >> very little money (less than $100). It appears that scrap metal >> dealers want them for their metal content, but don't want to pay much. Al or Cu coils, but most of the weight comes from the laminated-steel core... > > ISTR we paid $500 for new one in 1988 - 30KVA, IIRC. I wouldn't want > to pay more than $100 for a used one today. Hopefully, I won't ever > have to worry about them. Huh. I've never eyeballed the price sticker on one of 'em before. Maybe I'll get a few quotes on a step down and an isolation xfrmr, too. Not sure I'd pop for an isolation xfrmr with out meggering it good beforehand. > > -ethan Bob From rschaefe at gcfn.org Wed Jun 5 14:09:32 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <20020605185631.24663.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020605185631.24663.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <65314.128.146.70.100.1023304172.squirrel@www.gcfn.org> > For all the years I was earning a living with VAXen, we never networked > ours faster than 56kbps or clustered any of them - all local disks and > sync DDCMP/HASP interconnections with Kermit occasionally thrown in to > small VAXen that lacked a sync serial port. ISTR hearing mention a while back that the remote diag console on the 6K VAXen spoke a flavor of serial DECnet. Any experience with something like that? It would be useful, or at least interesting, to provide a remote console for them. > -ethan Bob From ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 5 14:12:57 2002 From: ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk (Greg Elkin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <1023296177.3653.0.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> References: Message-ID: <3CFE70C9.8999.FFE79E2@localhost> > I have 11/750 VMS install TK50s down to version three, but no operable > way to read them... > 11/750 specific or are they generic VMS installs? I can copy TK50 tapes (so will you be able too once I give you the uVax3100m20 & the TK50GZ (external SCSI TK50)) Actually just the external SCSI TK50 drive & a PC with a SCSI port can do it, use the ST program from dbit.com to image the tape to a file on disk & then write it back out... greg From ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 5 14:25:08 2002 From: ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk (Greg Elkin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: References: <20020605174135.95965.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3CFE73A4.26196.10099F66@localhost> > Actually on second thought this would probably be easiest on a SCSI based > VAX with an RZ25. > Oh for cheep SCSI QBUS cards... :) greg, fighting MFM & ESDI in his 11/83 & uVAX-II From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 5 14:25:09 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <65314.128.146.70.100.1023304172.squirrel@www.gcfn.org> Message-ID: <20020605192509.49119.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Robert F Schaefer wrote: > > > > ... we never networked ours faster than 56kbps... sync DDCMP... > > ISTR hearing mention a while back that the remote diag console on the 6K > VAXen spoke a flavor of serial DECnet. Any experience with something > like that? None. We either had a two-board Unibus set that provided an intellegent DDCMP connection (forget the model number, but *boy* were they expensive when they first came out) or we used the sync port on a DMF-32 - "cheap" (since all of our 11/730s and 11/750s had one anyway), but it was hard on the CPU. We did have some old Qbus sync ports (DPV11?), but we never attached a MicroVAX to our point-to-point DDCMP network. We used async ports and Kermit along with our own HASP boards for file transfer. As for remote diag consoles, I have never worked directly with them, nor have I seen any docs. I didn't even know that the 6000-line used a flavor of DDCMP. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From meltie at myrealbox.com Wed Jun 5 14:32:03 2002 From: meltie at myrealbox.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <20020605185036.23727.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020605185036.23727.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1023305526.4722.0.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> On Wed, 2002-06-05 at 19:50, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > I have 11/750 VMS install TK50s down to version three, but no operable > > way to read them... > > Are you sure about the media? The TK50 came out a long time after > VMS V3.x. The first machine I saw with a TK50 was a MicroVAX-II. > > Might you have TU-58s for the 11/750? Rar, same thing. D'oh! It's been a long weekend... -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Jun 5 14:42:18 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine Message-ID: > >Is it legal to distribute an ISO file of that to people with >a hobby license? I have the later Hobbyist CD, but would >love to have a copy of the original one. No idea. I'm pretty sure I've seen trustworthy people indicate that this can be done and that the licence allows you to get media anyway you can, including copying. If you can find a statement to that effect on either the montagar webpage or somewhere in the OpenVMS web pages, that'll do for me. Quite how you convince anyone that you have a hobbyist licence is another matter. Antonio From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Jun 5 14:42:53 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: SURVEY: Powering big iron in your home. Message-ID: Scrap dealers don't pay much for big transformers due to the fact that they are not worth very much.. You know something can't be too valuable when the yard won't even give you any money for it, heh. Will j _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Jun 5 14:48:04 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine Message-ID: >ISTR hearing mention a while back that the remote diag console on the 6K >VAXen spoke a flavor of serial DECnet. Any experience with something like >that? It would be useful, or at least interesting, to provide a remote >console for them. The remote diag consoles spoke (I guess) plain serial between the console and the local DEC Remote Diagnostic Console box and some undocumented, secret (and now probably forgotten) protocol between the RDC and its partner unit at the support centre. As for running DDCMP over the console line, it's probably possible but usually not a good idea (the console line is usually deliberately pretty dumb, the principle being that it's harder to screw up that way). Antonio From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Jun 5 14:50:55 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:01 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine Message-ID: >None. We either had a two-board Unibus set that provided an >intellegent DDCMP connection (forget the model number, but *boy* >were they expensive when they first came out) Might that have been the DMV11? I had one hanging off the UNIBUS of the VAX 8350 for a while. Luckily noone ever logged a bug so I never had to fidn out whether it worked or not :-) >had one anyway), but it was hard on the CPU. We did have some >old Qbus sync ports (DPV11?), but we never attached a MicroVAX The older one was indeed the DPV11. The newer, spiffier and more expensive one was the DSV11. Antonio From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Jun 5 14:56:55 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine Message-ID: >My best VAX processor is either the 8200 or a MicroVAX-II. Neither >have Ethernet at the moment (I'm working on getting a DEBNT going). The easy option is to buy or borrow a DELQA - but I think we've been there before :-) The alternative is to have someone who does have a VAX running V5.5-2 and sufficient disk space to build you a 650MB disk container file with OpenVMS V5.5-2 S/A BACKUP on it, drop it on a 700MB CD (or build a 700MB container file and zip it up and drop that on CD) and post it to you. Then you pop the CD into your Alpha and copy off the resulting container file, connect an LD device to it and just add files to [000000] until cooked. Then take that and burn to CD. If you had asked about two years ago I could have done that easily. Right now I have no VAX running V5.5-2. Why does your S/A BACKUP have to be 5.5-2? Will not V7.2 do? All you want to do is boot and install whatever version of OpenVMS you have put togetehr, no? Antonio From foo at siconic.com Wed Jun 5 14:59:46 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: Replacement tube for IBM 026 Printing Card Punch In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > Do the heaters of the other 5 tubes in the same row glow? IBM may have Yes. > used 6x 25V heaters in series to avoid using a voltage regulator. If you > find a source for the 25L6, and especially the IBM branded tube, get at > least a couple of extras. Tubes are generally very robust, but they don't > like being jarred around, and theres no telling what kind of abuse the > current tubes have been though. Yeah, if I could find a stash of IBM tubes I would certainly buy them all :) I'm not holding out for that. A generic tube would suit me fine. > Well, the tubes are not likely to smoke, but old capacitors are... I'm > guessing that you've already powered the unit up by now, but I'd recommend > using a variac to bring the voltage up slowly when first powering up old > equipment such as this when it has been stored for a long time. Bringing Yeah, we were impatient. These old machines are tough though. We didn't have any problems. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rschaefe at gcfn.org Wed Jun 5 15:01:07 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <64589.128.146.70.189.1023307267.squirrel@www.gcfn.org> > >>ISTR hearing mention a while back that the remote diag console on the >>6K VAXen spoke a flavor of serial DECnet. Any experience with >>something like that? It would be useful, or at least interesting, to >>provide a remote console for them. > > The remote diag consoles spoke (I guess) plain >serial between the console and the local DEC > Remote Diagnostic Console box and some > undocumented, secret (and now probably forgotten) > protocol between the RDC and its partner unit > at the support centre. The link between the little modem-shaped box connected to the console port and wherever it ended up at is what I was interested in. I thought it was just a plain old modem, but someone said (either here or on NetBSD port- vax) that it was a flavor of DECnet. It's not quite as interesting to me now. > > As for running DDCMP over the console line, it's > probably possible but usually not a good idea > (the console line is usually deliberately pretty dumb, > the principle being that it's harder to screw up that > way). Wouldn't try it anyway. I have enough trouble with dumb serial lines! > > Antonio > Bob From geoffr at zipcon.net Wed Jun 5 15:43:28 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: eBay insanity In-Reply-To: <000f01c20cac$16d10320$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020605134319.0428fec0@mail.zipcon.net> the auction is gone :( At 12:14 PM 6/5/02 -0400, you wrote: >I actually do this, with corded handsets. I'm not too broad shouldered >and we had rubberbands there at the company for holding down reel >tape leaders that were perfect. >Only did it for emergency phonecalls which were infrequent. > >John A. From hansp at aconit.org Wed Jun 5 15:28:54 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: Integra Systeme 2/5 Message-ID: <3CFE7486.6010709@aconit.org> Anyone know anything about the Integra Systeme 2/5. Most likely a French OEM. We just picked one up in a 6ft rack with a tape drive, two removable disk drives, a Kennedy 9218 Format Control Unit and a Kennedy 1629 Half Duplex Interface. We are told the system orginially came with 8 terminals. I have not had chance yet to see how the units are identified inside the cabinet. From the front panel switches the processor is a 16 bit mini. Any further information is welcome -- hbp From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 5 15:33:18 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <64589.128.146.70.189.1023307267.squirrel@www.gcfn.org> Message-ID: <20020605203318.14736.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Robert F Schaefer wrote: > > > >>ISTR hearing mention a while back that the remote diag console on the > >>6K VAXen spoke a flavor of serial DECnet... > > > > The remote diag consoles spoke (I guess) plain > > serial between the console and the local DEC > > Remote Diagnostic Console box and some > > undocumented, secret (and now probably forgotten) > > protocol between the RDC and its partner unit > > at the support centre. > > The link between the little modem-shaped box connected to the console > port and wherever it ended up at is what I was interested in. I > thought it was just a plain old modem, but someone said... that > it was a flavor of DECnet. It's not quite as interesting to me now. DECnet is a byte-oriented protocol over an unspecified physical medium (typically RS-232 or V.35). What may be occurring here is that the modem _is_ a plain-old-dumb (sync?) modem, but the byte protocol between the VAX and the Customer Care center in Colorado (where Remote Diagnostics folks used to reside) is a DDCMP or simplified DDCMP connection as opposed to some other proprietary method of packaging the requests and data. Older remote diag stuff (L0006? in an 11/750) would certainly have had some odd, proprietary, possibly interactive method of communicating with Field Circus. I can imagine a human really dialling in and issuing interactive commands at an 11/750. By the time the VAX 6000 came out, they probably wanted a program doing the low-level work, so they may have rolled out a networking protocol which is not based on human readable commands and command seperators, and that allows for in-band error detection - all the things we like about network protocols - automatic and robust, unlike throwing commands at a console prompt. > > As for running DDCMP over the console line, it's > > probably possible but usually not a good idea > > (the console line is usually deliberately pretty dumb, > > the principle being that it's harder to screw up that > > way). > > Wouldn't try it anyway. I have enough trouble with dumb serial lines! Not just dumb in the sense of a dumb terminal, but older VAX console lines tend to be resource hogs on the CPU, sometimes due to the interrupt level the UART comes in at, sometimes just due to the fact that it is a programmed-I/O device, not DMA like a DMF-32 or other "TXDRIVER" (vs "TTDRIVER") compatible serial device. It's why I was happy to put that DMB32 of yours into my 8200 - I have four console serial lines to start with: OPA0 and three others. I have been told that they exact a toll on performance to use them heavily (Kermit and the like). The normal mode for a VAX was to stick a printing terminal on OPA0 and let it spill paper on the floor all day. Who cares if a 300 bps connection gets serviced at half the max transfer rate - it's not like a _user_ is waiting for the printing to finish. For output, the OS can pace the console printing and defer it until later, giving better response for the live humans on the other ports. Contrast how long it takes for an operator message to print vs. when the OS panics - with absolutely nothing better to do that scream for help, the console speed picks up - you can hear the change in the cadence. That's how we always knew the VAX crashed - by ear. So... DEC didn't typically care to make the console a high-performance port because in practice, it wasn't necessary to give high performance. Make 'em buy an add-in card. The above does not apply, of course, to VAXen and how they were used by the time desktop-sized VAXen came around. Those tended to be used more like shared PeeCees, and the console serial port was no different than any other serial port in the machine, kinda like a SPARCserver. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 5 15:34:43 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: Replacement tube for IBM 026 Printing Card Punch In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020605203443.40902.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > Yeah, if I could find a stash of IBM tubes I would certainly buy them all > :) I'm not holding out for that. A generic tube would suit me fine. Me, too. AFAIK, all the tubes in mine are lit, but I'd like to have some spares. IBM tubes would be nice, but I'll take generic, also. > Yeah, we were impatient. These old machines are tough though. We didn't > have any problems. When I got my 026, I didn't know there could _be_ problems. I got lucky, too. Mine seems to have some mechanical issues - could use a good cleaning at least. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Jun 5 15:31:29 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: Gandalf DOV 640 Message-ID: I've got a pair of these Gandalf DOV 640's (Data Over Voice units) and I was wondering... 1) Is there a difference between 'master' and 'slave' units? I have a pair of what is marked 'slave' units. 2) Does anyone have a manual for these or can anyone tell me what the RDL and TL switches do, along with the dip switches inside? I'm not sure this things strictly meet the 10-year rule, but they should at least be close to it. Thanks for any info! -- Pat From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 5 15:47:57 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020605204757.62807.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Antonio Carlini wrote: > >None. We either had a two-board Unibus set that provided an > >intellegent DDCMP connection... > > Might that have been the DMV11? Sounds close. Maybe a DMR11 for Unibus? (We didn't have one for Qbus) > I had one hanging off the UNIBUS of the VAX 8350 for a > while. Luckily noone ever logged a bug so I > never had to fidn out whether it worked or not :-) Why do bugs matter? > >had one anyway), but it was hard on the CPU. We did have some > >old Qbus sync ports (DPV11?), but we never attached a MicroVAX > > The older one was indeed the DPV11. The newer, spiffier and > more expensive one was the DSV11. Never saw a DSV11 - too new and too spiffy. We used to ship the DPV11 in the HASPBOX, the PDP-11-based predecessor to the COMBOARD (the code, in fact, was 90% ported from PDP-11 MACRO to MC68000 assembler by a TECO macro. The comments in some of the COMBOARD-I code still make reference to the PDP-11). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 5 15:49:49 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020605204949.27305.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > >Is it legal to distribute an ISO file of that to people with > >a hobby license? > ...how you convince anyone that you have a hobbyist licence is > another matter. Give them a genuine DECUS membership number? That would at least establish that you are eligible for a hobbyist license. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 5 15:54:13 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <003101c20ca0$771d3a20$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <20020605205413.95001.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bob Lafleur wrote: > > How do I get started? > > Go here to download the latest SIMH: http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ Since I am compiler-impaired under WinBlows and I'd like to throw this on my daily-use laptop, can someone help me get a compiled version that will work under Windows2000? All I saw there was source (not that it's a bad thing normally, but...) Thanks, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From foo at siconic.com Wed Jun 5 15:53:16 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: OT: eBay insanity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > It's OT, but here's a humorous bit of eBay Insanity to cheer up > everyone's morning (or afternoon or evening depending on time zone) ... > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1357633571 The listing is gone now. What was it exactly so I could perhaps share in the laugh? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 5 15:59:25 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: OT: eBay insanity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020605205925.21435.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > > > It's OT, but here's a humorous bit of eBay Insanity to cheer up > > everyone's morning (or afternoon or evening depending on time zone) ... > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1357633571 > > The listing is gone now. What was it exactly so I could perhaps share in > the laugh? I managed to catch it - it's a picture I've seen before of a person's head in profile, with a cell phone rubberbanded to their head and an ad pitch for a "hands-free cell phone adapter". The bid was up to $15,099 when I saw it. Looked like a serious auction, comments about PayPal, BidPay, shipping, etc. Clearly (hopefully ;-) meant to be a joke. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jun 5 16:06:00 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: OT: eBay insanity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > >> It's OT, but here's a humorous bit of eBay Insanity to cheer up >> everyone's morning (or afternoon or evening depending on time zone) ... >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1357633571 > >The listing is gone now. What was it exactly so I could perhaps share in >the laugh? It was a cellphone holder according to the listing but in actuality it was a rubber band used to hold it against your head. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Jun 5 16:02:08 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: WTS: old windows versions Message-ID: If anyone's interest, I have my Windows 1.03 auction up on eBay. This will hopefully help fund some projects I'm working on... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2030077275 I still have copies of Windows 2.0 and Windows/286 (version 2.1) that I'd like to get rid of, but will offer to the group before I think about eBaying them. $20ea gets it. They're the original install disks.. email me off list if interested or you want a photo or something. All the disks read properly in a 1.2M DSHD floppy drive. -- Pat From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Jun 5 16:14:49 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: OT: eBay insanity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: That picture has been here (http://www.tardsite.com/handsfree.htm) for ages. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jeff Hellige Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 17:06 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: OT: eBay insanity >On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > >> It's OT, but here's a humorous bit of eBay Insanity to cheer up >> everyone's morning (or afternoon or evening depending on time zone) ... >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1357633571 > >The listing is gone now. What was it exactly so I could perhaps share in >the laugh? It was a cellphone holder according to the listing but in actuality it was a rubber band used to hold it against your head. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Jun 5 16:19:20 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine Message-ID: >Sounds close. Maybe a DMR11 for Unibus? (We didn't have one for >Qbus) I know that machine also had a DMR11 but I'm pretty sure that was a high speed parallel interface. My docs are not handy, so I'm not going to swear to it. >Why do bugs matter? In that machine's case, because I was using it to support the Phase IV and Phase V WAN Drivers code on OpenVMS VAX. In the general case, because they've paid for my house (either because I had to fix other people's or because other people paid me to generate them :-) ) > Antonio From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Jun 5 16:20:10 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <20020605205413.95001.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <003101c20ca0$771d3a20$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020605162010.0098d690@ubanproductions.com> Why are you "compiler-impaired" when you can get the Cygwin GBU stuff for free? --tom At 01:54 PM 6/5/02 -0700, you wrote: > >--- Bob Lafleur wrote: >> > How do I get started? >> >> Go here to download the latest SIMH: http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ > >Since I am compiler-impaired under WinBlows and I'd like to throw >this on my daily-use laptop, can someone help me get a compiled >version that will work under Windows2000? All I saw there was >source (not that it's a bad thing normally, but...) > >Thanks, > >-ethan > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup >http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jun 5 16:27:54 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: from "Ethan Dicks" at Jun 05, 2002 11:15:31 AM Message-ID: <200206052127.g55LRsK28483@shell1.aracnet.com> > > 5.5 is available on CD, it's just not easy to get. > > If I had it, I wouldn't be asking. :-) It would be really nice if someone could make the first Hobbyist CD available. As far as I'm concerned the V2 CD is basically worthless (OK, I confess that's becuase I've plenty of real Compaq/DEC kits), however, the V1 CD has all kinds of cool stuff on it as well as various versions of VAX/VMS between 5.5 and 6.1. > > What you want instead of mkisofs is something called the "Logical Disk > > Driver", IIRC. That allows you to create a CD sized ODS-2 logical disk > > that you can copy stuff onto. > > Is that a DEC (HP) product or Freeware? Freeware. Check the FAQ, it's probably got pointers. > > > Actually on second thought this would probably be easiest on a SCSI based > > VAX with an RZ25. > > How about a SCSI-based Alpha? And how about an RZ26 that isn't more than > 65% full? If physical size really matters, I could throw an ST1480 > drive on the Alpha and have 424MB - plenty of room for this task. I'm not sure what it would take to build standalone backup on a disk attached to an Alpha, or if it's even possible. As for a RZ26, I suspect you'd have some major problems, however, I don't know for sure. The ST1480 would be a safer choice. > Would it be a problem for cross-platform? I know it's easy to make > a disk on your own machine bootable to standalone (SYSE and whatnot). > I guess given the DCL script to make the standalone partition in the > first place, it wouldn't be impossible to modify it to pull from > someplace other than SYS$SYSROOT. By cross-platform are you talking VAX vs. Alpha, or VAX vs. PC? In either case I really don't know, the VAX vs. Alpha concerns me. > Pity it probably won't fit on a ZIP disk - I'll have to physically > move a drive from machine to machine. I think for V5.5 you'll need roughly 150MB for the full install (at least IIRC it will fit on a RD54). > That's the easy part. I'll probably do it on SPARCstation instead of > an Intel Linux box, but that's no big deal. Hmmm, I like that idea! I think you just pointed out how I can save some space! Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jun 5 16:33:43 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <3CFE73A4.26196.10099F66@localhost> from "Greg Elkin" at Jun 05, 2002 08:25:08 PM Message-ID: <200206052133.g55LXhj29136@shell1.aracnet.com> > Oh for cheep SCSI QBUS cards... > > :) > > greg, fighting MFM & ESDI in his 11/83 & uVAX-II I know what you mean, my Q-Bus based VAXen don't rate SCSI, OTOH, my PDP-11/23+, /44, and /73 all have SCSI. ESDI's not bad, but I've been burned a few times to many by MFM. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jun 5 16:35:37 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: from "Antonio Carlini" at Jun 05, 2002 08:42:18 PM Message-ID: <200206052135.g55LZbK29259@shell1.aracnet.com> > >Is it legal to distribute an ISO file of that to people with > >a hobby license? I have the later Hobbyist CD, but would > >love to have a copy of the original one. > > No idea. I'm pretty sure I've seen trustworthy > people indicate that this can be done and that > the licence allows you to get media anyway > you can, including copying. If you can find > a statement to that effect on either the montagar > webpage or somewhere in the OpenVMS web > pages, that'll do for me. Quite how you convince > anyone that you have a hobbyist licence is > another matter. > > Antonio The Hobbyist license allows you to make copies of DEC/Compaq media, however, I'm not sure if it allows you to make copies of the Hobbyist CD's. Zane From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Jun 5 16:42:56 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: Replacement tube for IBM 026 Printing Card Punch In-Reply-To: <20020605203443.40902.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Yeah, if I could find a stash of IBM tubes I would certainly buy them all > > :) I'm not holding out for that. A generic tube would suit me fine. > > Me, too. AFAIK, all the tubes in mine are lit, but I'd like to have > some spares. IBM tubes would be nice, but I'll take generic, also. Hey Ethan, this is cool! While there has been a great deal of sage advice, speculation, maybes, and 'try this' posts concerning the 026 - yours is the first positive lead. Would it be possible for you to go pop the back off the machine and give Sellam and/or the List just a quick note of what tubes are in what sockets, or, if they are all the same type, could you let us know that too?? This would remove the nagging doubt caused by no doco and no clear info. Thanks!! Cheerz John PS: If your machine also uses 25L6s in it, they are common, plentiful, and cheap - $4 - $7 generally for NOS units. From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Jun 5 17:11:24 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: OT: eBay insanity References: <1023291084.3468.4.camel@wombat> Message-ID: <002001c20cdd$f1800580$c5010240@default> All I get is a Invalid Item message?????? ----- Original Message ----- From: "brian wheeler" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 10:31 AM Subject: Re: OT: eBay insanity > On Wed, 2002-06-05 at 10:13, Pat Finnegan wrote: > > It's OT, but here's a humorous bit of eBay Insanity to cheer up > > everyone's morning (or afternoon or evening depending on time zone) ... > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1357633571 > > > > -- Pat > > > That's just sick...I'm a big fan. > > One has to wonder if people are just that stupid or if they are the > seller's accomplices... > > Brian > From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Jun 5 17:15:12 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine Message-ID: >The Hobbyist license allows you to make copies of >DEC/Compaq media, however, I'm not sure if it allows >you to make copies of the Hobbyist CD's. At http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/terms_and_conditions.txt it states that you can make *one* archival backup for yourself of the Hobbyist media. I don't see anywhere that states that you can copy that media for other hobbyists (which, admittedly, you didn't claim it said you could do) nor do I see anywhere that states that anyone else can copy something for you. Antonio From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jun 5 18:19:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: This seems on topic for this group and is > 10 years old... In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20020605112213.0094fdd0@ubanproductions.com> References: <10206050913.ZM19493@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020605181901.510ffdb2@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:22 AM 6/5/02 -0500, you wrote: Re: This seems on topic for this group and is > 10 years old... What kind of computer does it have in it? joe >Title of item: 1984 BOR-5 Russian Space Shuttle Proto-Type >Seller: kruseintl >Starts: May-28-02 14:40:59 PDT >Ends: Jun-07-02 14:40:59 PDT >Price: Currently $75,200.00 >To bid on the item, go to: >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1832679719 > > >Item Description: > > > >1984 BOR-5 Russian Space Shuttle Proto-Type > > From ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 5 17:27:26 2002 From: ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk (Greg Elkin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20020605162010.0098d690@ubanproductions.com> References: <20020605205413.95001.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3CFE9E5E.14237.10B085CC@localhost> > Why are you "compiler-impaired" when you can get the Cygwin GBU stuff > for free? > I tried the Cygwin 'disti' first to build SimH on my Win2K box, and had lots of errors / warnings. Switched to using MinGW and it built first time & ran just fine. greg From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Jun 5 18:04:23 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: This seems on topic for this group and is > 10 years old... Message-ID: <200206052304.QAA06239@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I doubt you'll find a computer inside. This is a scale model for wind tunnel testing, not a complete shuttle. Dwight >From: Joe > >At 11:22 AM 6/5/02 -0500, you wrote: > >Re: This seems on topic for this group and is > 10 years old... > > > What kind of computer does it have in it? > > joe > > >>Title of item: 1984 BOR-5 Russian Space Shuttle Proto-Type >>Seller: kruseintl >>Starts: May-28-02 14:40:59 PDT >>Ends: Jun-07-02 14:40:59 PDT >>Price: Currently $75,200.00 >>To bid on the item, go to: >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1832679719 >> >> >>Item Description: >> >> >> >>1984 BOR-5 Russian Space Shuttle Proto-Type >> >> > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jun 5 19:42:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: This seems on topic for this group and is > 10 years old... In-Reply-To: <200206052304.QAA06239@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020605194200.612751ee@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Perhaps I should have added Joe At 04:04 PM 6/5/02 -0700, you wrote: >Hi > I doubt you'll find a computer inside. This is a >scale model for wind tunnel testing, not a complete shuttle. >Dwight > >>From: Joe >> >>At 11:22 AM 6/5/02 -0500, you wrote: >> >>Re: This seems on topic for this group and is > 10 years old... >> >> >> What kind of computer does it have in it? >> >> joe >> >> >>>Title of item: 1984 BOR-5 Russian Space Shuttle Proto-Type >>>Seller: kruseintl >>>Starts: May-28-02 14:40:59 PDT >>>Ends: Jun-07-02 14:40:59 PDT >>>Price: Currently $75,200.00 >>>To bid on the item, go to: >>>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1832679719 >>> >>> >>>Item Description: >>> >>> >>> >>>1984 BOR-5 Russian Space Shuttle Proto-Type >>> >>> >> >> > > > From curt at atari-history.com Wed Jun 5 19:20:10 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System References: <3.0.6.16.20020605194200.612751ee@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000801c20cef$ebe18e20$01000001@cvendel> Anyone have on the original Novell 68000 based systems for sale/trade? Curt From rhudson at cnonline.net Wed Jun 5 19:41:33 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <20020605173524.10017.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020605173524.10017.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <02060517413300.01147@sputnik> On Wednesday 05 June 2002 10:35 am, you wrote: > --- Chad Fernandez wrote: > > Bob Lafleur wrote: > > >.... 3100-96 (3100-98) at something like 38 VUPs (38 x the > > > speed of the original VAX 780 on your desktop!). > > > > Wow, he has a Vax 780 on his desk!! That must be quite a desk!! :-) Yeah, my 780 was 4 full sized racks and that did not include the disk drives, they were separate. Perhaps much of the space was taken up by RS232 connectors though. Hardwired VT100 and Hazeltine terminals : ^) 9600 baud yeah! 30 people slowed it way down. editing in EMACS, TeX for good output. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 5 17:59:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: Motorola S-record converter source for new project In-Reply-To: <200206050019.g550Jql2043873@daemonweed.reanimators.org> from "Frank McConnell" at Jun 4, 2 05:19:52 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 756 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020605/b6442286/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 5 18:16:30 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: Replacement tube for IBM 026 Printing Card Punch In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jun 4, 2 05:52:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2053 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020606/2130494f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 5 18:34:12 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: Wanted: Kaypro 2'84/2x In-Reply-To: <20020605052539.WMZO1188.imf20bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> from "Glen Goodwin" at Jun 5, 2 01:25:27 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1811 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020606/71f7cf7d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 5 19:21:05 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <20020605192509.49119.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jun 5, 2 12:25:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 330 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020606/13027e65/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 5 19:24:22 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: from "Antonio Carlini" at Jun 5, 2 10:19:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 409 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020606/3f70c563/attachment.ksh From marvin at rain.org Wed Jun 5 20:11:23 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:02 2005 Subject: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System References: <3.0.6.16.20020605194200.612751ee@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <000801c20cef$ebe18e20$01000001@cvendel> Message-ID: <3CFEB6BB.364DD4CD@rain.org> Curt Vendel wrote: > > Anyone have on the original Novell 68000 based systems for sale/trade? Actually, I have two systems including a hard drive subsystem with IIRC 2 Rodime 40 MB very noisy hard drives. Since I've never fired them up except for the hard drive module, I don't know if they work or not. They do not have any software with them but they seem to be complete and were working when pulled from service. Since I am cutting back on most things that are post 1982 or so, these are extra. Contact me off list if you are interested. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jun 5 20:23:02 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: Wanted: Kaypro 2'84/2x In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Jun 6, 2 00:34:12 am" Message-ID: <200206060123.SAA11776@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > That's a shame! A couple of years back I asked the classiccmp list what > > was the "best" CP/M machine, and the overwhelming answer was "Kaypro." I > > My favourite CP/M machine is the Epson QX10. I personally like the Commodore 128's CP/M. It's colour, works in both 40 and 80 column modes, offers access to the Commodore's video and sound features (though admittedly little software actually leveraged this), and when paired with a 1571 disk drive you have GCR and MFM format capability and reasonably fast disk times. Alas, CP/M 3.0 Plus on the 128 is a bit slow, although there is a BIOS replacement available that improves this considerably. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Honesty is the best policy, but insanity is a better defense. -------------- From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jun 5 20:26:46 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: Motorola S-record converter source for new project References: <200206050019.g550Jql2043873@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <002001c20cf9$39466560$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Are you after a tool with which to conver the S-records to binary or are you after a characterization of the S-record format? Most of the published (back in the '70's and '80's) monitors that MOT released contained code to convert incoming S-records to binary and the reverse. Has anybody looked at those? I'd suggest one look at Lilbug.ASM, which is published and available even today. The Buffalo monitor for the 'HC11, also widely published, has that feature in it also, I believe. I've never seen it done in 'C' but there's really no reason why it shouldn't be. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank McConnell" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 6:19 PM Subject: Re: Motorola S-record converter source for new project > ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > Earlier this evening I was thinking about a project that will involve (in > > part) translating binary to/from IntelHex (or Motorola S-record would do, > > actually). Can you give me a URL for that source code you mentioned (or > > any other source code for a simular program). > > http://www.canb.auug.org.au/~millerp/srecord/srecord.html > > My recollection is that when I first tried to install SRecord version > 1.5 (a couple of years ago) I found that it was written in a > sufficiently new dialect of C++ that it didn't want to go down the gcc > 2.7.mumble that I was running on the intended FreeBSD box. One short > upgrade of FreeBSD later I had a newer version of gcc in the base > system and it was building and running SRecord. > > #include > > -Frank McConnell > From rschaefe at gcfn.org Wed Jun 5 20:45:19 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine References: <20020605203318.14736.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005501c20cfb$e8b81d20$85469280@y5f3q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 04:33 PM Subject: RE: Still pineing for my own VMS machine > > DECnet is a byte-oriented protocol over an unspecified physical > medium (typically RS-232 or V.35). What may be occurring here > is that the modem _is_ a plain-old-dumb (sync?) modem, but the byte > protocol between the VAX and the Customer Care center in Colorado > (where Remote Diagnostics folks used to reside) is a DDCMP or simplified > DDCMP connection as opposed to some other proprietary method of > packaging the requests and data. > Well, it plugs directly into the console of the VAX, so if it does speak something fancy, it's a good bet the processing is done in the modem-thingie. I guess I *could* plug a vt220 into it and see what comes out... > Older remote diag stuff (L0006? in an 11/750) would certainly have had > some odd, proprietary, possibly interactive method of communicating > with Field Circus. I can imagine a human really dialling in and > issuing interactive commands at an 11/750. By the time the VAX 6000 > came out, they probably wanted a program doing the low-level work, > so they may have rolled out a networking protocol which is not > based on human readable commands and command seperators, and > that allows for in-band error detection - all the things we like > about network protocols - automatic and robust, unlike throwing > commands at a console prompt. > > > > As for running DDCMP over the console line, it's > > > probably possible but usually not a good idea > > > (the console line is usually deliberately pretty dumb, > > > the principle being that it's harder to screw up that > > > way). > > > > Wouldn't try it anyway. I have enough trouble with dumb serial lines! > > Not just dumb in the sense of a dumb terminal, but older VAX console > lines tend to be resource hogs on the CPU, sometimes due to > the interrupt level the UART comes in at, sometimes just due to > the fact that it is a programmed-I/O device, not DMA like a DMF-32 > or other "TXDRIVER" (vs "TTDRIVER") compatible serial device. > > It's why I was happy to put that DMB32 of yours into my 8200 - I have > four console serial lines to start with: OPA0 and three others. > I have been told that they exact a toll on performance to use them > heavily (Kermit and the like). The normal mode for a VAX was to > stick a printing terminal on OPA0 and let it spill paper on the floor > all day. Who cares if a 300 bps connection gets serviced at half > the max transfer rate - it's not like a _user_ is waiting for the > printing to finish. For output, the OS can pace the console printing > and defer it until later, giving better response for the live humans on > the other ports. Contrast how long it takes for an operator message to > print vs. when the OS panics - with absolutely nothing better to do > that scream for help, the console speed picks up - you can hear the > change in the cadence. That's how we always knew the VAX crashed - by ear. Neat! Stuff like that is what's missing from modern computers-- they have no personality, aside from an occasional bluescreen or fifty. > -ethan Bob From foo at siconic.com Wed Jun 5 20:46:20 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System In-Reply-To: <3CFEB6BB.364DD4CD@rain.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > Anyone have on the original Novell 68000 based systems for sale/trade? > > Actually, I have two systems including a hard drive subsystem with IIRC > 2 Rodime 40 MB very noisy hard drives. Since I've never fired them up > except for the hard drive module, I don't know if they work or not. They > do not have any software with them but they seem to be complete and were > working when pulled from service. Since I am cutting back on most things > that are post 1982 or so, these are extra. Contact me off list if you > are interested. Wow, that's cool. I didn't realize Novell started on the 68000. Did it serve files for a PC network? How similar is the NOS to later versions of Netware? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mhscc at canada.com Wed Jun 5 21:08:11 2002 From: mhscc at canada.com (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: Replacement tube for IBM 026 Printing Card Punch Message-ID: <001201c20cff$695a13e0$5b4a3dcf@msed03> IIRC, the pile of punch card equipment manuals I sent to Norm Aleks included the 24/26 Operating Manual, the 24 Series Customer Engineering manual, and schematics for the 24 and 56, and Norm did solemnly promise to scan these and make them available on the Web; why not drop him a line. mike ------------Original Message---------- From: Sellam Ismail To: Classic Computers Mailing List Subject: Replacement tube for IBM 026 Printing Card Punch So I'm off to look for a 25L6 tube for my IBM 026. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020605/345616bb/attachment.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jun 5 22:34:35 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: Any familar with "Disk-A-Tape"? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020605223435.44bf88b4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Is anyone here familar with a device called Disk-A-Tape? It's paper tape emulator that uses a HH 5 1/4" floppy disk drive. (The drive is mounted in a filler plate that fits in a mount for a HH 8" floppy drive). It mounts in a 19" rack and is about 8" tall and 12" deep. Besides the drive, it has a reset pushbutton, an Init/Job toggle switch, FWD/Rev toggle switch, Read/Write toggle switch, Emulate/Off/RS-232 toggle switch and a small 8 digit LED display and an AC power switch on the front panel. On the back it has a DB-25M and DB-25F connectors. There are two circuit cards in them, one small one and a larger wire wrap card. I haven't taken it apart and looked at the ICs on the boards yet. I picked up two of these today, mostly out of curiousity. They came out of what looked like some kind of CNC machinery controller. There was also a DEC PDP-11/04 in one of the chassis. BTW I was searching the net for info on this and found this instead. Interesting but I'm not sure it's it's related to what I have or not. joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jun 5 22:33:58 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: ID these DEC cards? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020605223358.44bf57c8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Can anyone tell me what these cards from a DEC PDP-11/04 are? I've identified some them but I'm not they're correct. (1) M2763 (2) H-222A (16k x 18 core memory) (3) H-222A (16k x 18 core memory) (4) Advanced Control Corp. card with two FMI (Function Module Inc) 9685 Digital to Analog Convertors (5) same as 4 except it has two Burr Brown DAC-800-CBI-V convertors (6) M7856, (7) M9312 (Boot Strap Terminator? Exactly what does it do and why does it have four terminals on it?) (8) M7228 (KW11-P Real Time Clock). Joe From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Jun 5 21:55:43 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: Commodore floppy drives; faster than you can type In-Reply-To: <3CFDF3C1.23624.1ECA33A6@localhost> References: <3CFDF3C1.23624.1ECA33A6@localhost> Message-ID: <20020606025542.GA26407@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Stan Sieler, from writings of Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 11:19:29AM -0700: > "Reads data faster than you can type". > > Is my memory playing tricks on me, or did Commodore really > use such a line (or something quite similar)? Any pointers > would be appreciated. From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Jun 5 21:54:17 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: Commodore floppy drives; faster than you can type References: <3CFDF3C1.23624.1ECA33A6@localhost> <20020606025542.GA26407@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <002201c20d05$7457bda0$6f010240@default> Check out the commodore FD that just sold on ebay for $172.50. It's a model CMD FD-400 and is ebay #202686815 ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:55 PM Subject: Re: Commodore floppy drives; faster than you can type > Quothe Stan Sieler, from writings of Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 11:19:29AM -0700: > > "Reads data faster than you can type". > > > > Is my memory playing tricks on me, or did Commodore really > > use such a line (or something quite similar)? Any pointers > > would be appreciated. > > >From what I recall, typing in source code for a C64 was no fun, with > all those peeks and pokes, etc. Even the tape drive could transfer > data faster than I could type in those source code listings. > > > BTW, I wasn't convinced that it *could* read data faster > > than I could type :) > > While I can't comment on the disk drive, since I didn't acquire one > until the past year or so (and haven't obtained a cable yet), I can > only comment on the tape drive; yes, it did seem rather s...l...o...w; > however slow, I was grateful not to have to type in a program anymore > every time I used the C64. :-) > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > From marvin at rain.org Wed Jun 5 21:58:49 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: Commodore floppy drives; faster than you can type References: <3CFDF3C1.23624.1ECA33A6@localhost> <20020606025542.GA26407@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <002201c20d05$7457bda0$6f010240@default> Message-ID: <3CFECFE9.147A0B11@rain.org> That was quick; just went to check it out and it apparently was removed from the database. "John R. Keys Jr." wrote: > > Check out the commodore FD that just sold on ebay for $172.50. It's a > model CMD FD-400 and is ebay #202686815 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "R. D. Davis" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:55 PM > Subject: Re: Commodore floppy drives; faster than you can type > > > Quothe Stan Sieler, from writings of Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at > 11:19:29AM -0700: > > > "Reads data faster than you can type". > > > > > > Is my memory playing tricks on me, or did Commodore really > > > use such a line (or something quite similar)? Any pointers > > > would be appreciated. > > > > >From what I recall, typing in source code for a C64 was no fun, with > > all those peeks and pokes, etc. Even the tape drive could transfer > > data faster than I could type in those source code listings. > > > > > BTW, I wasn't convinced that it *could* read data faster > > > than I could type :) > > > > While I can't comment on the disk drive, since I didn't acquire one > > until the past year or so (and haven't obtained a cable yet), I can > > only comment on the tape drive; yes, it did seem rather s...l...o...w; > > however slow, I was grateful not to have to type in a program anymore > > every time I used the C64. :-) > > > > -- > > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other > animals: > > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above > Nature & > > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to > justify such > > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human > cruelty. > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Jun 5 22:11:24 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: Commodore floppy drives; faster than you can type References: <3CFDF3C1.23624.1ECA33A6@localhost> <20020606025542.GA26407@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <002201c20d05$7457bda0$6f010240@default> <3CFECFE9.147A0B11@rain.org> Message-ID: <003201c20d07$d7fcdb40$6f010240@default> SORRY the number is 2026860815 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin Johnston" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:58 PM Subject: Re: Commodore floppy drives; faster than you can type > > That was quick; just went to check it out and it apparently was removed > from the database. > > "John R. Keys Jr." wrote: > > > > Check out the commodore FD that just sold on ebay for $172.50. It's a > > model CMD FD-400 and is ebay #202686815 > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "R. D. Davis" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:55 PM > > Subject: Re: Commodore floppy drives; faster than you can type > > > > > Quothe Stan Sieler, from writings of Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at > > 11:19:29AM -0700: > > > > "Reads data faster than you can type". > > > > > > > > Is my memory playing tricks on me, or did Commodore really > > > > use such a line (or something quite similar)? Any pointers > > > > would be appreciated. > > > > > > >From what I recall, typing in source code for a C64 was no fun, with > > > all those peeks and pokes, etc. Even the tape drive could transfer > > > data faster than I could type in those source code listings. > > > > > > > BTW, I wasn't convinced that it *could* read data faster > > > > than I could type :) > > > > > > While I can't comment on the disk drive, since I didn't acquire one > > > until the past year or so (and haven't obtained a cable yet), I can > > > only comment on the tape drive; yes, it did seem rather s...l...o...w; > > > however slow, I was grateful not to have to type in a program anymore > > > every time I used the C64. :-) > > > > > > -- > > > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other > > animals: > > > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above > > Nature & > > > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to > > justify such > > > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human > > cruelty. > > > > From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Wed Jun 5 22:35:39 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: References: <20020605150052.80218.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> <02060507424400.01744@sputnik> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020606133405.027e28c0@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 09:47 AM 5/06/2002 -0700, Zane H. Healy wrote: >I'm sure there are people that have it, however, there aren't any >publically available copies that I'm aware of. To the best of my knowledge >the oldest version that has been made publically available would be VAX/VMS >V5.5 on the original Hobbyist CD (which is no longer available). >Personally the oldest I've gotten ahold of is something like 4.4 (if that >old), and unfortunatly I'm not sure what condition the TK50 tapes are in. Sitting around here somewhere (I knew where it was a couple of weeks ago but the housekeeper has filed it somewhere :-) is VAX/VMS 2.6 (AFAIR) on 1/2 inch tape. Unused, still in the resealable plastic bag. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Wed Jun 5 23:04:04 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c20d0f$32f9d6e0$023ca8c0@blafleur> A month or so ago, I wanted to get the hobbyist CD. When I went to the web site, I saw that it was sold out. So I sent Montagar an E-mail asking them if/when it would be back in stock. They told me they didn't know when, and that I could still register for a license, and borrow someone else's media to install from. What is the difference whether I borrow their media for a few hours, or make a copy to use when I need it? -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Antonio Carlini Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 3:42 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Still pineing for my own VMS machine > >Is it legal to distribute an ISO file of that to people with >a hobby license? I have the later Hobbyist CD, but would >love to have a copy of the original one. No idea. I'm pretty sure I've seen trustworthy people indicate that this can be done and that the licence allows you to get media anyway you can, including copying. If you can find a statement to that effect on either the montagar webpage or somewhere in the OpenVMS web pages, that'll do for me. Quite how you convince anyone that you have a hobbyist licence is another matter. Antonio From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Wed Jun 5 23:12:23 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501c20d10$5c998d00$023ca8c0@blafleur> I could understand that when they had the CD's in stock, they wouldn't want you copying them and passing them around because they'd be missing out on their $30/whack. But since they're not available, and they're not taking the opportunity to collect your $30 and send you a $1 CD-R copy, why would they care how much the CD gets passed around now? -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Antonio Carlini Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 6:15 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Still pineing for my own VMS machine >The Hobbyist license allows you to make copies of >DEC/Compaq media, however, I'm not sure if it allows >you to make copies of the Hobbyist CD's. At http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/terms_and_conditions.txt it states that you can make *one* archival backup for yourself of the Hobbyist media. I don't see anywhere that states that you can copy that media for other hobbyists (which, admittedly, you didn't claim it said you could do) nor do I see anywhere that states that anyone else can copy something for you. Antonio From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Wed Jun 5 23:14:08 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020606133405.027e28c0@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <000601c20d10$9b5b87a0$023ca8c0@blafleur> > Sitting around here somewhere (I knew where it was a couple of weeks ago > but the housekeeper has filed it somewhere :-) is VAX/VMS 2.6 (AFAIR) on > 1/2 inch tape. Unused, still in the resealable plastic bag. Wooah! That might be worth some big bucks on Ebay :) From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Wed Jun 5 23:16:42 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: FW: OpenVMS hobbyist license Message-ID: <000701c20d10$f7386020$023ca8c0@blafleur> This is the E-mail that I sent, and the message I received when inquiring about VAX hobbyist media. -----Original Message----- From: David L. Cathey [mailto:davidc@montagar.com] Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 6:49 PM To: bob_lafleur@technologist.com Subject: RE: OpenVMS hobbyist license >I am interested in obtaining the OpenVMS hobbyist license, but I see >from your order from that it is SOLD OUT. Do you plan to have another >version available soon? If not, is there another way I can obtain an >OpenVMS license for hobbyist use? Thanks for any information you can >provide. Licenses are still available, it's the media kit for VAX that is sold out. I'm not sure when we'll get new ones in at this time. However, you can still register for licenses and use borrowed media to bring your VAX on-line. If you need an Alpha, we still have several Alpha kits left. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - David L. Cathey |Inet: davidc@montagar.com Montagar Software, Inc. |Fone: (972)-423-5224 P. O. Box 260772, Plano, TX 75026 |http://www.montagar.com From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Wed Jun 5 23:16:54 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <20020605185036.23727.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> References: <1023296177.3653.0.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020606001654.00fbd334@pop1.epm.net.co> Hi Ethan; At 11:50 AM 6/5/02 -0700, you wrote: >> > >--- Ron Hudson wrote: >> > ...the oldest version that has been made publically available >> > would be VAX/VMS V5.5 on the original Hobbyist CD (which is no >> > longer available). > >Is it legal to distribute an ISO file of that to people with >a hobby license? I have the later Hobbyist CD, but would >love to have a copy of the original one. So would I; the original HD in my vaxstation 4000/60 still has 5.5 in it, but I took it out, installed a larger disk and used 7.2 in it. I have the dream of using 5.5 in the vaxstation 2000; I'd like to have the CD as well. I think that this summer I will try to do the ROM burning/swapping procedure in my VS2000 to see if the pk2k driver really does the trick. I've recently restored my vs4000 back to functionality and the experience has been rewarding; I think that I am going to become a VMS fan. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Wed Jun 5 22:42:19 2002 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] VT525 questions? Message-ID: <20020605203919.D82509-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Greetings; Just picked up a handful of VT525 terminals, and have a couple of questions. (can't find a darn hardware manual online for this thing) 1) What is the front opening 'cartridge slot' for? 2) anyone have any DEC LK461 keyboards available? Thanks; -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From rhudson at cnonline.net Thu Jun 6 00:10:28 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <20020605185036.23727.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020605185036.23727.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <02060522102800.01625@sputnik> > Is it legal to distribute an ISO file of that to people with > a hobby license? Actually, The more recent and legal version would be OK by me. From rhudson at cnonline.net Thu Jun 6 00:25:37 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <003101c20ca0$771d3a20$023ca8c0@blafleur> References: <003101c20ca0$771d3a20$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <02060522253701.01625@sputnik> On Wednesday 05 June 2002 07:51 am, you wrote: > > How do I get started? > > Go here to download the latest SIMH: http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ doh! that's a zip file, gunzip complains about it... what's up? From rhudson at cnonline.net Thu Jun 6 00:43:58 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02060522435802.01625@sputnik> On Wednesday 05 June 2002 06:46 pm, you wrote: > Wow, that's cool. I didn't realize Novell started on the 68000. Did it > serve files for a PC network? How similar is the NOS to later versions of > Netware? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--- International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com > * That early it probably served files for a CP/M workstations. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Jun 6 00:54:43 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: Commodore floppy drives; faster than you can type In-Reply-To: <002201c20d05$7457bda0$6f010240@default> from "John R. Keys Jr." at "Jun 5, 2 09:54:17 pm" Message-ID: <200206060554.WAA26104@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Check out the commodore FD that just sold on ebay for $172.50. It's a > model CMD FD-400 and is ebay #202686815 Believe it or not, that's actually a good price on an FD-4000. These are 2.88MB-capable floppy drives and quite difficult to find. Very valuable to those who have one. Even the lowly 1581 commands an increasingly high price, and that's not even HD-capable (the FD-2000 is, and fortunately is still being manufactured in small quantities). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- MOVIE IDEA: E.T.E.S.: The Extra Terrestrial E-Mail Signature --------------- From brian at quarterbyte.com Thu Jun 6 01:27:05 2002 From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: Wright Punch in Hawaii Message-ID: <3CFE9E49.19037.2E17E32@localhost> Hi folks, There's a sealed-bid surplus lot for sale on www.govliquidiation.com with a Wright Line manual card punch and two paper tape readers of unknown provenance -- the only snag is they're in Kapolei, HI (Oahu). http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=60013 Might be a good catch for someone in the Islands. brian =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- _| _| _| Brian Knittel / Quarterbyte Systems, Inc. _| _| _| Tel: 1-510-559-7930 Fax: 1-510-525-6889 _| _| _| Email: brian@quarterbyte.com _| _| _| http://www.quarterbyte.com From wmsmith at earthlink.net Thu Jun 6 01:34:30 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: old windows versions References: Message-ID: <008501c20d24$3698ea10$d02dcd18@wayne052602> > If anyone's interest, I have my Windows 1.03 auction up on eBay. This > will hopefully help fund some projects I'm working on... > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2030077275 > > I still have copies of Windows 2.0 and Windows/286 (version 2.1) that I'd > like to get rid of, but will offer to the group before I think about > eBaying them. $20ea gets it. They're the original install disks.. email > me off list if interested or you want a photo or something. All the disks > read properly in a 1.2M DSHD floppy drive. > > -- Pat > Smells a bit like spam to me. You can pay this person $75 for the original disks, if you want, or you can download 1.03 and other versions for free at these sites: http://www.uncon.net/files/old-ms/Windows_1.03/ http://www.oldpc.boom.ru/os.htm http://386page.gooddays.org/os/windows/win1gtwy.htm http://hot.ee/kaitzo/Tarkvara.htm -W From geoffr at zipcon.net Thu Jun 6 02:10:43 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: old windows versions In-Reply-To: <008501c20d24$3698ea10$d02dcd18@wayne052602> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020606001006.02490810@mail.zipcon.net> for a collector that wants the actual disks, the auctino is great, but those who don't want/need the original disks will download it. At 11:34 PM 6/5/02 -0700, you wrote: > > If anyone's interest, I have my Windows 1.03 auction up on eBay. This > > will hopefully help fund some projects I'm working on... > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2030077275 > > > > I still have copies of Windows 2.0 and Windows/286 (version 2.1) that >I'd > > like to get rid of, but will offer to the group before I think about > > eBaying them. $20ea gets it. They're the original install disks.. >email > > me off list if interested or you want a photo or something. All the >disks > > read properly in a 1.2M DSHD floppy drive. > > > > -- Pat > > > >Smells a bit like spam to me. You can pay this person $75 for the >original disks, if you want, or you can download 1.03 and other versions >for free at these sites: > >http://www.uncon.net/files/old-ms/Windows_1.03/ > >http://www.oldpc.boom.ru/os.htm > >http://386page.gooddays.org/os/windows/win1gtwy.htm > >http://hot.ee/kaitzo/Tarkvara.htm > >-W From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jun 6 02:22:42 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: Motorola S-record converter source for new project In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Motorola S-record converter source for new project" (Jun 5, 23:59) References: Message-ID: <10206060822.ZM3343@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 5, 23:59, Tony Duell wrote: > If it's that much work to get it to compile, it's going to be less work > to write my own from scratch. Intel Hex is hardly complex [1] and all I > need is binary -> hex (so I can transfer files to my EPROM programmer...) > which is the easier direction in general. > > [1] And I even have an Intel manual giving a semi-official version of the > spec... There's a flat-ASCII copy of the Intel spec, including type 3,4, and 5 records, for 8-, 16- and 32-bit formats, at http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/IntelHEX/hexspec.txt as well as my simpler description at http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/IntelHEX/IntelHEX.txt I'm sure you could just use James' code (plain C, no fancy C++ or other complexities, and quite small) at http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/IntelHEX/ihex.tar -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 6 03:00:44 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <02060522253701.01625@sputnik> Message-ID: <20020606080044.68223.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ron Hudson wrote: > On Wednesday 05 June 2002 07:51 am, you wrote: > > > How do I get started? > > > > Go here to download the latest SIMH: http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ > > > doh! that's a zip file, gunzip complains about it... what's up? gzip/gunzip pack and unpack simple compressed files (.gz). You need zip/unzip for your favorite OS (ISTR they ship standard with Solaris now). What zip and unzip are to the PeeCee world, tar and gzip/gunzip are to the Unix world. Different tools, same effect. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 6 03:02:36 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020606001654.00fbd334@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <20020606080236.98729.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Carlos Murillo wrote: > I think that this summer I will try to do the ROM burning/swapping > procedure in my VS2000 to see if the pk2k driver really does the > trick. I have never gotten it working, but only because I didn't start with the same version of the ROMs that the instructions call for. :-( I'm sure it works, it just didn't work for me easily enough to keep me on task. I'm sure I'll get back to it one day. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 6 03:05:41 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020606133405.027e28c0@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <20020606080541.34567.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Huw Davies wrote: > Sitting around here somewhere (I knew where it was a couple of weeks ago > but the housekeeper has filed it somewhere :-) is VAX/VMS 2.6 (AFAIR) on > 1/2 inch tape. Unused, still in the resealable plastic bag. Somewhere, I have VMS 2.something sources on 3 1600bpi magtapes. I inherited them years ago and I have no idea if they will still read or not. I haven't seen them in 8+ years, but if I run across them, they will be put into the magtape queue I'm forming. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Wed Jun 5 14:40:52 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: TI optoelectronics datasheet References: Message-ID: <3CFE6944.2A18570F@Vishay.com> Tothwolf wrote: > I think these might be a little wider (actually, I guess that would be > height, since these displays are intended to be mounted horizontally) than Oops, need to re-orient my book ;^) -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Wed Jun 5 14:49:31 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: eBay insanity References: <000f01c20cac$16d10320$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <3CFE44E4.3070809@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3CFE6B4B.5FE8C52A@Vishay.com> Yes, saw that here, too (around December 2000), and a version in French showing adhesive tape for a similar purpose. What makes me wonder is, why do people bid high $$$ on this nonsense - or are they going to sue him for not including the phone from the picture? (I didn't see a note like "cell phone not included"...) Andreas Chad Fernandez wrote: > > I've actually been emailed a version of that Ebay listing..... I think > it started out as one of those chain emails, rather than an auction. -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 6 03:17:55 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: C-128 CP/M (was Re: Wanted: Kaypro 2'84/2x) In-Reply-To: <200206060123.SAA11776@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <20020606081755.14067.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Cameron Kaiser wrote: > I personally like the Commodore 128's CP/M.... Alas, CP/M 3.0 Plus on > the 128 is a bit slow, although there is a BIOS replacement available > that improves this considerably. Turns out, that is what I have... an original CP/M 3.0 Plus for the C-128. What's this about a BIOS replacement? Is this an upgrade diskette or replacement ROMs for the Z-80 in the C-128? Either way, are copies on funet? I have a C-128D that I still need to clean up and fire up. Might as well give it a workout. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 6 03:20:56 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020606082056.1275.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > None. We either had a two-board Unibus set that provided an > > intellegent DDCMP connection (forget the model number, but *boy* > > Probably either a DMC11, DMR11 or KMC11. The last was the most > interesting in that the control code (these things were simple > processors) was in RAM, not ROM, so you could write your own. As mentioned elsewhere, I'm pretty sure it was a DMR11. It's in storage (I did get 100% of the VAXen when Software Results closed), so I could go visit it if I really had to. I read about the KMC11 - it sounded a lot like a COMBOARD - an intellegent serial peripheral with downloadable front-end code. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 6 03:28:17 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: Still pineing for my own VMS machine In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20020605162010.0098d690@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <20020606082817.37285.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tom Uban wrote: > Why are you "compiler-impaired" when you can get the Cygwin GBU stuff for > free? Because I'm essentially (intentionally) ignorant of what's available for development on Microsoft machine. I have been a professional C programmer for 14 documentable years (with a few things on the side before that). I cut my teeth on VAXen (VMS/UNIX) and 68000s (UNIX/AmigaDOS/embedded systems). I prefer to expend my skull sweat on what _I_ consider worthwhile. I'll _use_ Windows (not my first choice, but it is everywhere), but I don't care to take the plunge to developing on it. I'd rather do something cool. If I could get UNIX on my company-provided laptop, I'd go that route. They didn't ask me what I wanted. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Jun 6 04:45:09 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: TI optoelectronics datasheet In-Reply-To: <3CFE33BF.974C8621@Vishay.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > while looking for 7-segment displays more in general, I ran across a > data book that has some information about TI's TIL360 displays, which > seem to match your description of the outline (16pin dip, 1.02" long > by .4" wide, digit height .1"). The data book has a 1978 date, a bit > older than your chips. > > Not the exact type, but this is what I have about the TIL360. YMMV, > but perhaps at least the pinout might be similar. Looks like the pinout is indeed the same. It might be that the TIL360 and DIS1291 are the same parts. The display I tested had a weak segment C in digit 2...hopefully only 1 of the displays I have is flawed. I guess one weak segment out of 48 isn't *too* bad for 21+ year old surplus displays. Perhaps all of the displays I ended up with were factory rejects? -Toth From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu Jun 6 07:35:14 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: eBay insanity In-Reply-To: <3CFE6B4B.5FE8C52A@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <001101c20d56$9b879de0$023ca8c0@blafleur> I would guess that all the high bids were just people joking around, especially when it got way up in the thousands. The view count on that auction was WAY high so I suspect the info about it had traveled quite widely. Why the people doing the joke bidding would risk their eBay reputation on such nonsense, or why the auction lister would do so, I have no clue. Not all the participants were new members signed up for that purpose - even the lister had considerable feedback. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Andreas Freiherr Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 3:50 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: eBay insanity Yes, saw that here, too (around December 2000), and a version in French showing adhesive tape for a similar purpose. What makes me wonder is, why do people bid high $$$ on this nonsense - or are they going to sue him for not including the phone from the picture? (I didn't see a note like "cell phone not included"...) Andreas Chad Fernandez wrote: > > I've actually been emailed a version of that Ebay listing..... I think > it started out as one of those chain emails, rather than an auction. -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu Jun 6 08:04:29 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System In-Reply-To: <02060522435802.01625@sputnik> Message-ID: <001201c20d5a$b1e83c80$023ca8c0@blafleur> > That early it probably served files for a CP/M workstations. I never thought I'd ever see "CP/M" and "workstation" in the same sentence! :) From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Jun 6 08:40:56 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:03 2005 Subject: C-128 CP/M (was Re: Wanted: Kaypro 2'84/2x) In-Reply-To: <20020606081755.14067.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Jun 6, 2 01:17:55 am" Message-ID: <200206061340.GAA25978@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > I personally like the Commodore 128's CP/M.... Alas, CP/M 3.0 Plus on > > the 128 is a bit slow, although there is a BIOS replacement available > > that improves this considerably. > > Turns out, that is what I have... an original CP/M 3.0 Plus for > the C-128. > > What's this about a BIOS replacement? Is this an upgrade diskette > or replacement ROMs for the Z-80 in the C-128? Either way, are > copies on funet? I have a C-128D that I still need to clean up > and fire up. Might as well give it a workout. In order, software upgrade, and yes. Here's an explanation of how it works: http://www.funet.fi/pub/cpm/sys/c128/patches/fastbios.readme and the actual BIOS is in a PMA archive: http://www.funet.fi/pub/cpm/sys/c128/patches/fastbios.pma There are some other useful Commodore CP/M goodies in that directory, including a disk turbo, better 1581 support, and some BDOS patches. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Furious activity is no substitute for understanding. -- H. H. Williams ----- From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Jun 6 08:39:21 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: old windows versions In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020606001006.02490810@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Jun 2002, Geoff Reed wrote: > for a collector that wants the actual disks, the auctino is great, but > those who don't want/need the original disks will download it. Exactly. Hey, if you noticed I said I'm not putting Windows 2.0 and 2.1 up on eBay yet... -- Pat > At 11:34 PM 6/5/02 -0700, you wrote: > > > If anyone's interest, I have my Windows 1.03 auction up on eBay. This > > > will hopefully help fund some projects I'm working on... > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2030077275 > > > > > > I still have copies of Windows 2.0 and Windows/286 (version 2.1) that > >I'd > > > like to get rid of, but will offer to the group before I think about > > > eBaying them. $20ea gets it. They're the original install disks.. > >email > > > me off list if interested or you want a photo or something. All the > >disks > > > read properly in a 1.2M DSHD floppy drive. > > > > > > -- Pat > > > > > > >Smells a bit like spam to me. You can pay this person $75 for the > >original disks, if you want, or you can download 1.03 and other versions > >for free at these sites: > > > >http://www.uncon.net/files/old-ms/Windows_1.03/ > > > >http://www.oldpc.boom.ru/os.htm > > > >http://386page.gooddays.org/os/windows/win1gtwy.htm > > > >http://hot.ee/kaitzo/Tarkvara.htm > > > >-W > From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 6 09:15:06 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: Wright Punch in Hawaii In-Reply-To: <3CFE9E49.19037.2E17E32@localhost> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Brian Knittel wrote: > There's a sealed-bid surplus lot for sale on www.govliquidiation.com > with a Wright Line manual card punch and two paper tape readers of > unknown provenance -- the only snag is they're in Kapolei, HI (Oahu). > > http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=60013 If the Wright Line punch is like the one I have then it's pretty cool as a collectable. If the whole lot could be had for under $100 then the shipping would not be that bad. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Jun 6 09:15:39 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: Motorola S-record converter source for new project In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk's message of "Wed, 5 Jun 2002 23:59:00 +0100 (BST)" References: Message-ID: <200206061415.g56EFdOI083483@daemonweed.reanimators.org> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > If it's that much work to get it to compile, it's going to be less work > to write my own from scratch. Hence my review alongside the pointer. I was turned onto this thing by someone who likes to run a recent release from Red Hat, and look what it got me: a reason to do that OS upgrade I'd been putting off. Once I did that, getting SRecord to compile was as easy as I'd been expecting, and it even worked and did what I wanted done. I expect that most folks running Linux/*BSD have installed or upgraded within the last two years and so have a sufficiently new version of gcc at this point, but I also expect that you (and other folks on this list) might not. -Frank McConnell From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 6 09:52:43 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: Commodore floppy drives; faster than you can type In-Reply-To: <200206060554.WAA26104@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <20020606145243.55730.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > Check out the commodore FD that just sold on ebay for $172.50. It's a > > model CMD FD-400 and is ebay #202686815 Woof! > Believe it or not, that's actually a good price on an FD-4000. These are > 2.88MB-capable floppy drives and quite difficult to find. Very valuable > to those who have one. Guess so. _I_ don't need one that bad. > Even the lowly 1581 commands an increasingly high price... Scary. > ... that's not even HD-capable Wasn't there some buzz about an HD-version of the 1581? A mythical prototype, perhaps, not a real, buy-it-off-the-shelf product. ISTR some scrambling a while back for "1591 ROMs". AFAIK, it was a firmware change and a 1/2-speed Amiga-compatible HD floppy drive, but that's about all the detail I remember. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Jun 6 10:50:39 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: FW: OpenVMS hobbyist license In-Reply-To: <000701c20d10$f7386020$023ca8c0@blafleur> References: <000701c20d10$f7386020$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <20020606155039.GB26407@rhiannon.rddavis.org> > This is the E-mail that I sent, and the message I received when > inquiring about VAX hobbyist media. Thanks for forwarding this info. to the list. When, or if, they get 'round to makine the distribution available again, hopefully they'll make this software available on TK50 media as well. CD ROMs are nice, although they aren't too useful to those without SCSI boards in their VAXen. (yes, I know, I should purchase a VAXstation with SCSI :-) At the very least, I should extract a spare Y power connector from a PeeCee and use that to get power from a disk drive to a TK50 on my VAX 4000-200 and make a backup of the VMS 5.x that I already have. Then, I could also make copies for others who need it. The one thing that I'm not sure about at the moment is how to make a tape bootable... time to read the on-line HELP pages. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From kees.stravers at iae.nl Thu Jun 6 05:13:26 2002 From: kees.stravers at iae.nl (kees.stravers@iae.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System Message-ID: <20020606101326.0C1CD20FD3@eowyn.vianetworks.nl> On 2002-06-05 Marvin Johnston wrote: >Curt Vendel wrote: >> Anyone have on the original Novell 68000 based systems for >> sale/trade? >Actually, I have two systems including a hard drive subsystem with >IIRC 2 Rodime 40 MB very noisy hard drives. Is it possible to take a few photographs of these machines and publish them somewhere? I also collect old Novell stuff, and I have an old original Novell machine too, but it already is a 286 made by Hyundai. (http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/cm/lroom2.html) I also have an old key card that you needed to have in your server as a sort of anti piracy device or otherwise your system wouldn't work, that was used by the first pc versions of the Netware server system (http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/cm/lroom4.html) When Novell was in the hardware business it also sold diskless pc workstations with the ne1000 and bootrom already on the motherboard, also made by Hyundai. (I do not have pictures of those) But I have never seen one of the old 68000 server machines. Thanks, Kees. -- kees.stravers@iae.nl My site about the DEC VAX computer Geldrop, The Netherlands http://www.vaxarchive.org http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/ is now back up. Member of Insomniacs Anonymous Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered From kees.stravers at iae.nl Thu Jun 6 05:13:30 2002 From: kees.stravers at iae.nl (kees.stravers@iae.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System Message-ID: <20020606101330.8789E20FFB@eowyn.vianetworks.nl> On 2002-06-05 cctalk@classiccmp.org said >On Wednesday 05 June 2002 06:46 pm, you wrote: >> Wow, that's cool. I didn't realize Novell started on the 68000. >>Did it serve files for a PC network? How similar is the NOS to >>later versions of Netware? >That early it probably served files for a CP/M workstations. Indeed it all began with networking CP/M computers. Around 1981 Novell came to the market with their first networking product, called S-net. It was a star based network around a specialized server machine with a 68000 processor and a proprietary NOS. It is this machine we are talking about now. You could connect CP/M machines and PCs to it. Around 1983 the first version of Netware appeared, called Netware-86. This was a multitasking file-, print and application server software package that ran on the PC XT. I do not know what the exact functionality of S-net was, but I believe it was multi-user file sharing only. Kees. -- kees.stravers@iae.nl My site about the DEC VAX computer Geldrop, The Netherlands http://www.vaxarchive.org http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/ is now back up. Member of Insomniacs Anonymous Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Jun 6 08:32:26 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: Looking for (classic) IC sample boxes In-Reply-To: <1731TV-1KSTHkC@fwd11.sul.t-online.com> Message-ID: I'll make this fit the 10 year rule by saying that many of my > 10 year old ICs are going into these... Remember the plastic boxes that distributors used to use for IC samples? About 6" x 4" x 0.75", typically containing a sheet of anti-static foam? I'm looking for about 5 of these. There are two types, those that have clear plastic lids (and sometimes bases), and the others that are made entirely out anti-static plastic. While not picky, I'd tend to prefer the clear ones. If you have any you'd like to part with, please contact me off-list at jcwren@jcwren.com, and we should be able to work out an equitable exchange (typically handled as me sending you money...) --John From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu Jun 6 10:40:07 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System In-Reply-To: <20020606101330.8789E20FFB@eowyn.vianetworks.nl> Message-ID: <001501c20d70$6f8e7320$023ca8c0@blafleur> > Indeed it all began with networking CP/M computers. Around 1981 Novell came to the market with their first networking ??>product, called S-net. Back in 1984 we used a star network device to network some DEC Rainbows and PC's (both running MS-DOS). I don't remember who made it, but I really don't think it was Novell. It was a specialized box though. The wires that connected to the Rainbows and PC's connected with little slip-on clips that came off quite easily. From marvin at rain.org Thu Jun 6 11:16:06 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System References: <20020606101326.0C1CD20FD3@eowyn.vianetworks.nl> Message-ID: <3CFF8AC6.4ADB783@rain.org> kees.stravers@iae.nl wrote: > > On 2002-06-05 Marvin Johnston wrote: > >Curt Vendel wrote: > >> Anyone have on the original Novell 68000 based systems for > >> sale/trade? > >Actually, I have two systems including a hard drive subsystem with > >IIRC 2 Rodime 40 MB very noisy hard drives. > > Is it possible to take a few photographs of these machines and publish > them somewhere? I also collect old Novell stuff, and I have an old Right now, they are in the back of the garage and a bit difficult to get to. But I would be more than happy to take some photos and post them once I get to the machines :). From at258 at osfn.org Thu Jun 6 11:31:40 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: Wanted: Kaypro 2'84/2x In-Reply-To: <200206060123.SAA11776@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: I loved bothe the C128 CP/M and the QX-10. My favourite is the Xerox 820-II with old style keyboard. A truly WONDERFUL machine. On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > That's a shame! A couple of years back I asked the classiccmp list what > > > was the "best" CP/M machine, and the overwhelming answer was "Kaypro." I > > > > My favourite CP/M machine is the Epson QX10. > > I personally like the Commodore 128's CP/M. It's colour, works in both > 40 and 80 column modes, offers access to the Commodore's video and sound > features (though admittedly little software actually leveraged this), > and when paired with a 1571 disk drive you have GCR and MFM format > capability and reasonably fast disk times. Alas, CP/M 3.0 Plus on the 128 > is a bit slow, although there is a BIOS replacement available that > improves this considerably. > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- Honesty is the best policy, but insanity is a better defense. -------------- > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From curt at atari-history.com Thu Jun 6 12:16:39 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System References: Message-ID: <002201c20d7d$ec58f080$01000001@cvendel> Sellam, When Novell First started out in I think 1979 they used to be NDS, Inc. (How Ironic right?) They started out doing custom build-to-order hardware and software. They developed S-Net for serving files and printing to networked machines. Their biggest hurdle was getting files served to all of the diverse systems out there at the time (DOS, CP/M and so forth) and I recall something about Noorda bringing in some heavy-weight programmer who got their proprietary systems to connect to PC's and other systems and they when they went into a total re-org, started working on Protective Mode OS's, changed their name to Novell and really shook things up, one of my other favorites was Corvus as they were really doing some remarkable stuff and they got murdered by Novell as they just couldn't keep up. Anybody remember the old 3Com 3+Open Network Servers that had to load everything from QIC Tapes? How about Banyan Networks. :-) I remember in my early days of working as a technician I saw one of the first Novell fileservers that a "Network Engineer" was working on and when he popped the case (Standard XT Type Case) it was a custom M68000 motherboard, the first I'd ever seen before and I was amazed and it always stuck with me and I've been meaning to go looking for one as I've been working with Novell since 2.12 generating those good old NET$OS files (Oh joy!). Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:46 PM Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > > Anyone have on the original Novell 68000 based systems for sale/trade? > > > > Actually, I have two systems including a hard drive subsystem with IIRC > > 2 Rodime 40 MB very noisy hard drives. Since I've never fired them up > > except for the hard drive module, I don't know if they work or not. They > > do not have any software with them but they seem to be complete and were > > working when pulled from service. Since I am cutting back on most things > > that are post 1982 or so, these are extra. Contact me off list if you > > are interested. > > Wow, that's cool. I didn't realize Novell started on the 68000. Did it > serve files for a PC network? How similar is the NOS to later versions of > Netware? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jun 6 12:17:16 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: Corrupted scrolling video (was: Wanted: Kaypro 2'84/2x In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Jun 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > I got one of mine very cheaply because it had video problems. Characters > got corrupted when the display scrolled, for example. It turned out > that... No, let me set this as a puzzle. You have to know the following : I encountered that symptom once with an IBM monochrome card. On careful examination, it turned up that IBM had bent up one of the pins of a chip before soldering. From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Jun 6 12:48:03 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: OpenVMS license expiration date Message-ID: <20020606174802.GC26407@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Greetings, This afternoon I registered my DECUS^H^H^H^H^HEncompass membership number with Montagar software for OpenVMS. By the way, not knowing the CPU ID of my VAX, I entered a '?', and that satisfied their registration script. The last time that I attempted to register with Montagar, my Encompas membership ID number was rejected, so I didn't get a CD-ROM back then. A short while ago, an e-mail arrived with the license to use OpenVMS; alas, the license expires in one year. Will this expiration date have any effect on the useability of the software after the expiration date? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu Jun 6 12:34:52 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System In-Reply-To: <002201c20d7d$ec58f080$01000001@cvendel> Message-ID: <004401c20d80$775920e0$023ca8c0@blafleur> That was it. CORVUS, that's what we used to network our DEC Rainbows and PC's back in 1984. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Curt Vendel Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 1:17 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System Sellam, When Novell First started out in I think 1979 they used to be NDS, Inc. (How Ironic right?) They started out doing custom build-to-order hardware and software. They developed S-Net for serving files and printing to networked machines. Their biggest hurdle was getting files served to all of the diverse systems out there at the time (DOS, CP/M and so forth) and I recall something about Noorda bringing in some heavy-weight programmer who got their proprietary systems to connect to PC's and other systems and they when they went into a total re-org, started working on Protective Mode OS's, changed their name to Novell and really shook things up, one of my other favorites was Corvus as they were really doing some remarkable stuff and they got murdered by Novell as they just couldn't keep up. Anybody remember the old 3Com 3+Open Network Servers that had to load everything from QIC Tapes? How about Banyan Networks. :-) I remember in my early days of working as a technician I saw one of the first Novell fileservers that a "Network Engineer" was working on and when he popped the case (Standard XT Type Case) it was a custom M68000 motherboard, the first I'd ever seen before and I was amazed and it always stuck with me and I've been meaning to go looking for one as I've been working with Novell since 2.12 generating those good old NET$OS files (Oh joy!). Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:46 PM Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > > Anyone have on the original Novell 68000 based systems for > > > sale/trade? > > > > Actually, I have two systems including a hard drive subsystem with > > IIRC 2 Rodime 40 MB very noisy hard drives. Since I've never fired > > them up except for the hard drive module, I don't know if they work > > or not. They do not have any software with them but they seem to be > > complete and were > > working when pulled from service. Since I am cutting back on most > > things that are post 1982 or so, these are extra. Contact me off > > list if you are interested. > > Wow, that's cool. I didn't realize Novell started on the 68000. Did > it serve files for a PC network? How similar is the NOS to later > versions of Netware? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Jun 6 12:37:37 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System Message-ID: Don't forget that the Televideo PM-16 runs an OEM version of Netware 1.1 or so... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jun 6 12:46:23 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: OpenVMS license expiration date In-Reply-To: <20020606174802.GC26407@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: >get a CD-ROM back then. A short while ago, an e-mail arrived with the >license to use OpenVMS; alas, the license expires in one year. Will >this expiration date have any effect on the useability of the software >after the expiration date? Um, yeah! In about a year you'll need to get new PAK's and install them, either that or you'll have to turn your clock back. This is the one thing I *REALLY* hate about the OpenVMS Hobbyist program. With the Tru64 program you have to pay Compaq (now maybe HP if it's still available) about $100, but you get a set of good PAK's and a set of CD's. I really wish they'd done this with the OpenVMS Hobbyist. It really helps if you've real OS and networking PAK's installed on your system, that way you can easily copy the new PAK's over if the old ones have expired. :^( Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dave at naffnet.org.uk Thu Jun 6 12:55:49 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: OpenVMS license expiration date References: <20020606174802.GC26407@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3CFFA225.9B65B7CC@naffnet.org.uk> "R. D. Davis" wrote: > Greetings, > > This afternoon I registered my DECUS^H^H^H^H^HEncompass membership > number with Montagar software for OpenVMS. By the way, not knowing > the CPU ID of my VAX, I entered a '?', and that satisfied their > registration script. The last time that I attempted to register with > Montagar, my Encompas membership ID number was rejected, so I didn't > get a CD-ROM back then. A short while ago, an e-mail arrived with the > license to use OpenVMS; alas, the license expires in one year. Will > this expiration date have any effect on the useability of the software > after the expiration date? After the license expires you will need to get another license:- and again a year after that one expires, year after year after year after... Once the license has expired you'll only be able to log into the console. This is the way that the hobbyist program works. I'm afraid, Dave. From florit at unixville.com Thu Jun 6 12:04:49 2002 From: florit at unixville.com (Louis Florit) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: Source for Jiffydos for Commodore 64-SX? Message-ID: I've a Commodore 64-SX (the portable) and I was toying with the idea of updating its kernel/bios/rom/whateveritscalledonthere so that it could stretch out the life of its floppy drive. There was a company called CMD that produced a replacement called JiffyDOS that worked around lots of the slow repetitive speed transfer problems from the disk drives. It doesn't seem like they're selling the chips anymore. Anyone have a source for these, or failing that, someone have a recipe for doing this sort of thing? L From RCini at congressfinancial.com Thu Jun 6 14:56:03 2002 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E50137195A@MAIL10> While browsing sites for 6800 information, I came across this quote from . which talks about the design goals for the 650x in comparison to the 6800. >The design goal was a low-cost (smaler chip) design, realized by simplifying the decoder stage. There were no instructions with the value xxxxxx11, reducing the 1-of-4 decoder to a single NAND gate. Instructions with the value xxxxxx11 actually executed two instructions in paralell, some of them useful. < Now, I didn't look at an opcode map, but it seems that this is an interesting twist that I've never seen quoted when people discussed the mysterious undocumented 6502 opcodes executing what appeared to be multiple instructions. Any thoughts? Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From jplist at globe.net.nz Thu Jun 6 15:15:39 2002 From: jplist at globe.net.nz (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: Source for Jiffydos for Commodore 64-SX? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Jun 2002, Louis Florit wrote: > There was a company called CMD that produced a replacement called JiffyDOS > that worked around lots of the slow repetitive speed transfer problems > from the disk drives. It doesn't seem like they're selling the chips > anymore. CMD sold their entire stock to a fellow called Maurice Randall. Have a looksee here: http://www.ia4u.net/~maurice/cmd.html Maurice is a good guy, he's keeping a useful resource for Commodore users alive when CMD was happy to dump the entire line. JP From curt at atari-history.com Thu Jun 6 15:24:00 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System References: <004401c20d80$775920e0$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <002401c20d98$181589d0$01000001@cvendel> No way? Corvus worked on VMS too??? I never knew that, wow! Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Lafleur" To: Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 1:34 PM Subject: RE: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > That was it. CORVUS, that's what we used to network our DEC Rainbows and > PC's back in 1984. > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Curt Vendel > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 1:17 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > Sellam, > > When Novell First started out in I think 1979 they used to be NDS, > Inc. (How Ironic right?) They started out doing custom build-to-order > hardware > and software. They developed S-Net for serving files and printing to > networked machines. Their biggest hurdle was getting files served to > all > of the diverse systems out there at the time (DOS, CP/M and so forth) > and I recall something about Noorda bringing in some heavy-weight > programmer who got their proprietary systems to connect to PC's and > other systems and they when they went into a total re-org, started > working on Protective Mode OS's, changed their name to Novell and really > shook things up, one of my other favorites was Corvus as they were > really doing some remarkable stuff and > they got murdered by Novell as they just couldn't keep up. Anybody > remember the old 3Com 3+Open Network Servers that had to load everything > from QIC Tapes? How about Banyan Networks. :-) > > I remember in my early days of working as a technician I saw one of > the first Novell fileservers that a "Network Engineer" was working on > and when he popped the case (Standard XT Type Case) it was a custom > M68000 motherboard, the first I'd ever seen before and I was amazed and > it always stuck with me and I've been meaning to go looking for one as > I've been working with Novell since 2.12 generating those good old > NET$OS files (Oh joy!). > > > Curt > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sellam Ismail" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:46 PM > Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > > On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > > > > Anyone have on the original Novell 68000 based systems for > > > > sale/trade? > > > > > > Actually, I have two systems including a hard drive subsystem with > > > IIRC 2 Rodime 40 MB very noisy hard drives. Since I've never fired > > > them up except for the hard drive module, I don't know if they work > > > or not. They do not have any software with them but they seem to be > > > complete and were > > > > working when pulled from service. Since I am cutting back on most > > > things that are post 1982 or so, these are extra. Contact me off > > > list if you are interested. > > > > Wow, that's cool. I didn't realize Novell started on the 68000. Did > > it serve files for a PC network? How similar is the NOS to later > > versions of Netware? > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---- > ---- > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * > > > > From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu Jun 6 15:52:26 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System In-Reply-To: <002401c20d98$181589d0$01000001@cvendel> Message-ID: <004901c20d9c$10fef9c0$023ca8c0@blafleur> No, we didn't use our Corvus system with VMS. DEC Rainbows (semi-PC compatible machines running MS-DOS) and PC's are what we used it with. - Bob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Curt Vendel Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 4:24 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System No way? Corvus worked on VMS too??? I never knew that, wow! Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Lafleur" To: Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 1:34 PM Subject: RE: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > That was it. CORVUS, that's what we used to network our DEC Rainbows > and PC's back in 1984. > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Curt Vendel > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 1:17 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > Sellam, > > When Novell First started out in I think 1979 they used to be NDS, > Inc. (How Ironic right?) They started out doing custom build-to-order > hardware > and software. They developed S-Net for serving files and printing to > networked machines. Their biggest hurdle was getting files served to > all > of the diverse systems out there at the time (DOS, CP/M and so forth) > and I recall something about Noorda bringing in some heavy-weight > programmer who got their proprietary systems to connect to PC's and > other systems and they when they went into a total re-org, started > working on Protective Mode OS's, changed their name to Novell and > really shook things up, one of my other favorites was Corvus as they > were really doing some remarkable stuff and > they got murdered by Novell as they just couldn't keep up. Anybody > remember the old 3Com 3+Open Network Servers that had to load everything > from QIC Tapes? How about Banyan Networks. :-) > > I remember in my early days of working as a technician I saw one of > the first Novell fileservers that a "Network Engineer" was working on > and when he popped the case (Standard XT Type Case) it was a custom > M68000 motherboard, the first I'd ever seen before and I was amazed > and it always stuck with me and I've been meaning to go looking for > one as I've been working with Novell since 2.12 generating those good > old NET$OS files (Oh joy!). > > > Curt > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sellam Ismail" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:46 PM > Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > > On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > > > > Anyone have on the original Novell 68000 based systems for > > > > sale/trade? > > > > > > Actually, I have two systems including a hard drive subsystem with > > > IIRC 2 Rodime 40 MB very noisy hard drives. Since I've never fired > > > them up except for the hard drive module, I don't know if they work > > > or not. They do not have any software with them but they seem to be > > > complete and were > > > > working when pulled from service. Since I am cutting back on most > > > things that are post 1982 or so, these are extra. Contact me off > > > list if you are interested. > > > > Wow, that's cool. I didn't realize Novell started on the 68000. > > Did > > it serve files for a PC network? How similar is the NOS to later > > versions of Netware? > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > ---- > ---- > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jun 6 17:14:18 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 References: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E50137195A@MAIL10> Message-ID: <001d01c20da7$808fc340$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> One of the more interesting features of the 6502 is that when you're looking at the data bus, it shows you what last was on the bus in those cases where there's nothing present to drive the data-in bus. This will give you information useful in figuring out what is going inside the chip, and, that's what gave me the clues that convinced me that the reason the 6502 is so cheap on silicon is that it doesn't use counters for its registers, but, rather, uses simple gated latches and uses the ALU to operate on the addresses during phase-2 while operating on the data during phase-1. If you look at what's required to build a synchronous counter large enough to support the simple register set in the 6502 you'll see that the saved gates are sufficient to warrant its design in exactly that way, and that it would yield a significant savings in silicon. It allows you to use a relatively complex ALU, together with a register set that's essentially a small RAM array with an instruction set that never operates on two registers in a single cycle. If you build the PC, the address bus registers, the SP, the two index registers, and the accumulator as 8-bit registers, it's easy to see why one would do things that way. I'm not sure anybody has ever taken a really close look at what happens when each possible opcode is fed to the 6502 as the first instruction after a reset and then recorded what the CPU does with it right up to the next SYNC, signalling that a new opcode is being fetched, but it might be a useful extension on what's been done. Of course, the 6502 is of little interest to persons planning any practical endeavors, so this fits squarely under the aegis of this forum. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cini, Richard" To: "'CCLTech'" Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 1:56 PM Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 > While browsing sites for 6800 information, I came across this quote from > . > which talks about the design goals for the 650x in comparison to the 6800. > > >The design goal was a low-cost (smaler chip) design, realized by > simplifying the decoder stage. There were no instructions with the value > xxxxxx11, reducing the 1-of-4 decoder to a single NAND gate. Instructions > with the value xxxxxx11 actually executed two instructions in paralell, some > of them useful. < > Now, I didn't look at an opcode map, but it seems that this is an > interesting twist that I've never seen quoted when people discussed the > mysterious undocumented 6502 opcodes executing what appeared to be multiple > instructions. > Any thoughts? > Rich > > ========================== > Richard A. Cini, Jr. > Congress Financial Corporation > 1133 Avenue of the Americas > 30th Floor > New York, NY 10036 > (212) 545-4402 > (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) > > _______________________________________________ > cctech mailing list > cctech@classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech > From curt at atari-history.com Thu Jun 6 18:12:03 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System References: <004901c20d9c$10fef9c0$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <002101c20daf$9263b100$01000001@cvendel> So.... the Rainbows, weren't they still using DECnet and LAT through the built in AUI??? Was the Corvus Disk Server LAT Compatible or something??? This is very interesting. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Lafleur" To: Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 4:52 PM Subject: RE: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > No, we didn't use our Corvus system with VMS. DEC Rainbows (semi-PC > compatible machines running MS-DOS) and PC's are what we used it with. > > - Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Curt Vendel > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 4:24 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > No way? Corvus worked on VMS too??? I never knew that, wow! > > > Curt > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Lafleur" > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 1:34 PM > Subject: RE: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > > That was it. CORVUS, that's what we used to network our DEC Rainbows > > and PC's back in 1984. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > > On Behalf Of Curt Vendel > > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 1:17 PM > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > > > > Sellam, > > > > When Novell First started out in I think 1979 they used to be NDS, > > Inc. (How Ironic right?) They started out doing custom build-to-order > > > hardware > > and software. They developed S-Net for serving files and printing to > > networked machines. Their biggest hurdle was getting files served > to > > all > > of the diverse systems out there at the time (DOS, CP/M and so forth) > > and I recall something about Noorda bringing in some heavy-weight > > programmer who got their proprietary systems to connect to PC's and > > other systems and they when they went into a total re-org, started > > working on Protective Mode OS's, changed their name to Novell and > > really shook things up, one of my other favorites was Corvus as they > > were really doing some remarkable stuff and > > they got murdered by Novell as they just couldn't keep up. Anybody > > remember the old 3Com 3+Open Network Servers that had to load > everything > > from QIC Tapes? How about Banyan Networks. :-) > > > > I remember in my early days of working as a technician I saw one of > > > the first Novell fileservers that a "Network Engineer" was working on > > and when he popped the case (Standard XT Type Case) it was a custom > > M68000 motherboard, the first I'd ever seen before and I was amazed > > and it always stuck with me and I've been meaning to go looking for > > one as I've been working with Novell since 2.12 generating those good > > old NET$OS files (Oh joy!). > > > > > > Curt > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Sellam Ismail" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:46 PM > > Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > > > > > On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > > > > > > Anyone have on the original Novell 68000 based systems for > > > > > sale/trade? > > > > > > > > Actually, I have two systems including a hard drive subsystem with > > > > IIRC 2 Rodime 40 MB very noisy hard drives. Since I've never fired > > > > > them up except for the hard drive module, I don't know if they > work > > > > or not. They do not have any software with them but they seem to > be > > > > complete and were > > > > > > working when pulled from service. Since I am cutting back on most > > > > things that are post 1982 or so, these are extra. Contact me off > > > > list if you are interested. > > > > > > Wow, that's cool. I didn't realize Novell started on the 68000. > > > Did > > > it serve files for a PC network? How similar is the NOS to later > > > versions of Netware? > > > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer > > Festival > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -- > > > ---- > > ---- > > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > > http://www.vintage.org > > > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > > www.VintageTech.com * > > > > > > > > > From spc at conman.org Thu Jun 6 18:49:23 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E50137195A@MAIL10> from "Cini, Richard" at Jun 06, 2002 03:56:03 PM Message-ID: <200206062349.TAA20964@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Cini, Richard once stated: > > While browsing sites for 6800 information, I came across this quote from > . > which talks about the design goals for the 650x in comparison to the 6800. > > >The design goal was a low-cost (smaler chip) design, realized by > simplifying the decoder stage. There were no instructions with the value > xxxxxx11, reducing the 1-of-4 decoder to a single NAND gate. Instructions > with the value xxxxxx11 actually executed two instructions in paralell, some > of them useful. < > Now, I didn't look at an opcode map, but it seems that this is an > interesting twist that I've never seen quoted when people discussed the > mysterious undocumented 6502 opcodes executing what appeared to be multiple > instructions. > Any thoughts? I've actually heard that some of the undocumented 6502 opcodes appeared to do two operations, but I've never programmed a 6502 (a 6809 yes, and I found out that encoding a TRF 8b,16b would set the high byte of the 16b register to $FF---I never did see what the undocumented opcodes did though; I tended to stay away from the undocumented stuff as a programmer). -spc (I find that interesting though ... ) From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu Jun 6 19:33:29 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System In-Reply-To: <002101c20daf$9263b100$01000001@cvendel> Message-ID: <005101c20dba$f2a9fd20$023ca8c0@blafleur> No, the Rainbow had no built-in network ports except a serial port which we had hooked to our VAX and used it with terminal emulation. Corvus had an add-in card for the Rainbow (and an ISA card for the PC) that implemented their specific network protocol (I have no idea what it was, but it was not ethernet or anything like that...) -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Curt Vendel Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 7:12 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System So.... the Rainbows, weren't they still using DECnet and LAT through the built in AUI??? Was the Corvus Disk Server LAT Compatible or something??? This is very interesting. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Lafleur" To: Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 4:52 PM Subject: RE: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > No, we didn't use our Corvus system with VMS. DEC Rainbows (semi-PC > compatible machines running MS-DOS) and PC's are what we used it with. > > - Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Curt Vendel > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 4:24 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > No way? Corvus worked on VMS too??? I never knew that, wow! > > > Curt > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Lafleur" > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 1:34 PM > Subject: RE: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > > That was it. CORVUS, that's what we used to network our DEC Rainbows > > and PC's back in 1984. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > > On Behalf Of Curt Vendel > > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 1:17 PM > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > > > > Sellam, > > > > When Novell First started out in I think 1979 they used to be > > NDS, Inc. (How Ironic right?) They started out doing custom > > build-to-order > > > hardware > > and software. They developed S-Net for serving files and printing to > > networked machines. Their biggest hurdle was getting files served > to > > all > > of the diverse systems out there at the time (DOS, CP/M and so > > forth) and I recall something about Noorda bringing in some > > heavy-weight programmer who got their proprietary systems to connect > > to PC's and other systems and they when they went into a total > > re-org, started working on Protective Mode OS's, changed their name > > to Novell and really shook things up, one of my other favorites was > > Corvus as they were really doing some remarkable stuff and > > they got murdered by Novell as they just couldn't keep up. Anybody > > remember the old 3Com 3+Open Network Servers that had to load > everything > > from QIC Tapes? How about Banyan Networks. :-) > > > > I remember in my early days of working as a technician I saw one > > of > > > the first Novell fileservers that a "Network Engineer" was working > > on and when he popped the case (Standard XT Type Case) it was a > > custom M68000 motherboard, the first I'd ever seen before and I was > > amazed and it always stuck with me and I've been meaning to go > > looking for one as I've been working with Novell since 2.12 > > generating those good old NET$OS files (Oh joy!). > > > > > > Curt > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Sellam Ismail" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:46 PM > > Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > > > > > On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > > > > > > Anyone have on the original Novell 68000 based systems for > > > > > sale/trade? > > > > > > > > Actually, I have two systems including a hard drive subsystem > > > > with IIRC 2 Rodime 40 MB very noisy hard drives. Since I've > > > > never fired > > > > > them up except for the hard drive module, I don't know if they > work > > > > or not. They do not have any software with them but they seem to > be > > > > complete and were > > > > > > working when pulled from service. Since I am cutting back on > > > > most things that are post 1982 or so, these are extra. Contact > > > > me off list if you are interested. > > > > > > Wow, that's cool. I didn't realize Novell started on the 68000. > > > Did it serve files for a PC network? How similar is the NOS to > > > later versions of Netware? > > > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer > > Festival > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > -- > > > -- > > > ---- > > ---- > > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > > http://www.vintage.org > > > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > > www.VintageTech.com * > > > > > > > > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Jun 6 20:12:14 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 In-Reply-To: <200206062349.TAA20964@conman.org> from Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner at "Jun 6, 2 07:49:23 pm" Message-ID: <200206070112.SAA10454@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > >The design goal was a low-cost (smaler chip) design, realized by > > simplifying the decoder stage. There were no instructions with the value > > xxxxxx11, reducing the 1-of-4 decoder to a single NAND gate. Instructions > > with the value xxxxxx11 actually executed two instructions in paralell, some > > of them useful. < > > Now, I didn't look at an opcode map, but it seems that this is an > > interesting twist that I've never seen quoted when people discussed the > > mysterious undocumented 6502 opcodes executing what appeared to be multiple > > instructions. > I've actually heard that some of the undocumented 6502 opcodes appeared to > do two operations, They sure do. For example, I believe there's a LAX that loads the accumulator and X register simultaneously. Others are considerably more useless, and there's several HCF-type instructions also. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- ** COMMODORE 64 BASIC V2 ** 64K RAM SYSTEM 38911 BASIC BYTES FREE ---------- From davebarnes at adelphia.net Thu Jun 6 20:36:18 2002 From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System References: <001501c20d70$6f8e7320$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <3D000E12.880F9BEE@adelphia.net> Hmmm Corvus Omninet??? That sounds what you are talking about... used to work on that stuff... great and way ahead of its time... Bob Lafleur wrote: > > Indeed it all began with networking CP/M computers. Around 1981 Novell > came to the market with their first networking ??>product, called S-net. > > Back in 1984 we used a star network device to network some DEC Rainbows > and PC's (both running MS-DOS). I don't remember who made it, but I > really don't think it was Novell. It was a specialized box though. The > wires that connected to the Rainbows and PC's connected with little > slip-on clips that came off quite easily. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Jun 6 20:19:02 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: Source for Jiffydos for Commodore 64-SX? In-Reply-To: from Louis Florit at "Jun 6, 2 01:04:49 pm" Message-ID: <200206070119.SAA07420@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Anyone have a source for these, or failing that, someone have a recipe for > doing this sort of thing? Maurice Randall's site already being posted (also try http://www.cmdrkey.com/) being the direct answer, but consider a cheaper solution like an Epyx FastLoad. These cartridges can be had for a couple of bucks on the used market, are plentiful, and highly compatible with most software (I can count on my fingers the number of titles I have that don't like it). Plus, you don't have to install the matching ROM in the disk drive as well (JiffyDOS is a matched set: a system Kernal replacement and a drive ROM replacement). All of my Commodore 64s and 128s are fitted with FastLoads, and I don't know what I'd do without them. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The first duty of a revolutionary is to get away with it. -- Abbie Hoffman - From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 6 20:11:49 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 In-Reply-To: <200206062349.TAA20964@conman.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Jun 2002, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > I've actually heard that some of the undocumented 6502 opcodes appeared to > do two operations, but I've never programmed a 6502 (a 6809 yes, and I found > out that encoding a TRF 8b,16b would set the high byte of the 16b register > to $FF---I never did see what the undocumented opcodes did though; I tended > to stay away from the undocumented stuff as a programmer). The "undocumented" opcodes in the 6502 do indeed trigger two operations as the revelation of the simplified decoder whereby no instructions have their lower two bits set to 1 reveals. It was a matter of experimentation to issue one such instruction and see what effect it had on the accumulator and registers. I know some instructions would, for instance, do an OR operation and then an ADD, or maybe a LOAD and then a logical operation. I have a document somewhere that describes these operations, and it is abound on the web. Here's one such description (rather lengthy): http://www.s-direktnet.de/homepages/k_nadj/opcodes.html ...and another (you have to download a zip file): http://www.programmersheaven.com/zone5/cat440/15555.htm Go to Google for more. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From davebarnes at adelphia.net Thu Jun 6 21:06:42 2002 From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System References: <004401c20d80$775920e0$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <3D001532.80D274D5@adelphia.net> I also had a Corvus Omninet QBUS interface card that allowed me to attach my 11/23+ to the Corvus network disk drive... neat back then... Bob Lafleur wrote: > That was it. CORVUS, that's what we used to network our DEC Rainbows and > PC's back in 1984. > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Curt Vendel > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 1:17 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > Sellam, > > When Novell First started out in I think 1979 they used to be NDS, > Inc. (How Ironic right?) They started out doing custom build-to-order > hardware > and software. They developed S-Net for serving files and printing to > networked machines. Their biggest hurdle was getting files served to > all > of the diverse systems out there at the time (DOS, CP/M and so forth) > and I recall something about Noorda bringing in some heavy-weight > programmer who got their proprietary systems to connect to PC's and > other systems and they when they went into a total re-org, started > working on Protective Mode OS's, changed their name to Novell and really > shook things up, one of my other favorites was Corvus as they were > really doing some remarkable stuff and > they got murdered by Novell as they just couldn't keep up. Anybody > remember the old 3Com 3+Open Network Servers that had to load everything > from QIC Tapes? How about Banyan Networks. :-) > > I remember in my early days of working as a technician I saw one of > the first Novell fileservers that a "Network Engineer" was working on > and when he popped the case (Standard XT Type Case) it was a custom > M68000 motherboard, the first I'd ever seen before and I was amazed and > it always stuck with me and I've been meaning to go looking for one as > I've been working with Novell since 2.12 generating those good old > NET$OS files (Oh joy!). > > Curt > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sellam Ismail" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:46 PM > Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > > > > Anyone have on the original Novell 68000 based systems for > > > > sale/trade? > > > > > > Actually, I have two systems including a hard drive subsystem with > > > IIRC 2 Rodime 40 MB very noisy hard drives. Since I've never fired > > > them up except for the hard drive module, I don't know if they work > > > or not. They do not have any software with them but they seem to be > > > complete and were > > > > working when pulled from service. Since I am cutting back on most > > > things that are post 1982 or so, these are extra. Contact me off > > > list if you are interested. > > > > Wow, that's cool. I didn't realize Novell started on the 68000. Did > > it serve files for a PC network? How similar is the NOS to later > > versions of Netware? > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---- > ---- > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Jun 6 20:29:07 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: Commodore floppy drives; faster than you can type In-Reply-To: <20020606145243.55730.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Jun 6, 2 07:52:43 am" Message-ID: <200206070129.SAA27224@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Even the lowly 1581 commands an increasingly high price... > > Scary. Yep, I paid $100 for mine, although granted I bought it in '94. Even today they'll still run in the $50-60 range. > > ... that's not even HD-capable > > Wasn't there some buzz about an HD-version of the 1581? A mythical > prototype, perhaps, not a real, buy-it-off-the-shelf product. ISTR > some scrambling a while back for "1591 ROMs". AFAIK, it was a > firmware change and a 1/2-speed Amiga-compatible HD floppy drive, > but that's about all the detail I remember. 1591 ROMs did allegedly exist, but my only contact for them, who actually built a working replica with the ROMs and an A4000 3.5" mech, managed to lose them and the prototype in the process. (Argh.) Some 1581s are capable of handling HD disks, though they treat them as DD. So far, though there has been some research on this point, there isn't a good way externally or even looking at the board to tell. The jury is still out on the longevity of such "DD-ized" HD floppies in a 1581 anyway. Mine unfortunately balks on HD floppies. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws. -- Tacitus --------- From curt at atari-history.com Thu Jun 6 20:24:30 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System References: <005101c20dba$f2a9fd20$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <000b01c20dc2$13050db0$01000001@cvendel> Okay, then that makes more sense. Yeah, the Apple and IBM cards were called Corvus Transporter Cards, so I would have to assume the same on the Dec Rainbows, it would be interesting to actually find one of those cards and have a look at it. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Lafleur" To: Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 8:33 PM Subject: RE: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > No, the Rainbow had no built-in network ports except a serial port which > we had hooked to our VAX and used it with terminal emulation. > > Corvus had an add-in card for the Rainbow (and an ISA card for the PC) > that implemented their specific network protocol (I have no idea what it > was, but it was not ethernet or anything like that...) > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Curt Vendel > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 7:12 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > So.... the Rainbows, weren't they still using DECnet and LAT through the > built in AUI??? Was the Corvus Disk Server LAT Compatible or > something??? > This is very interesting. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Lafleur" > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 4:52 PM > Subject: RE: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > > No, we didn't use our Corvus system with VMS. DEC Rainbows (semi-PC > > compatible machines running MS-DOS) and PC's are what we used it with. > > > > - Bob > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > > On Behalf Of Curt Vendel > > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 4:24 PM > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > > > > No way? Corvus worked on VMS too??? I never knew that, wow! > > > > > > Curt > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bob Lafleur" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 1:34 PM > > Subject: RE: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > > > > > That was it. CORVUS, that's what we used to network our DEC Rainbows > > > > and PC's back in 1984. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > > > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > > > On Behalf Of Curt Vendel > > > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 1:17 PM > > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > > > > > > > Sellam, > > > > > > When Novell First started out in I think 1979 they used to be > > > NDS, Inc. (How Ironic right?) They started out doing custom > > > build-to-order > > > > > hardware > > > and software. They developed S-Net for serving files and printing > to > > > networked machines. Their biggest hurdle was getting files served > > to > > > all > > > of the diverse systems out there at the time (DOS, CP/M and so > > > forth) and I recall something about Noorda bringing in some > > > heavy-weight programmer who got their proprietary systems to connect > > > > to PC's and other systems and they when they went into a total > > > re-org, started working on Protective Mode OS's, changed their name > > > to Novell and really shook things up, one of my other favorites was > > > Corvus as they were really doing some remarkable stuff and > > > they got murdered by Novell as they just couldn't keep up. Anybody > > > remember the old 3Com 3+Open Network Servers that had to load > > everything > > > from QIC Tapes? How about Banyan Networks. :-) > > > > > > I remember in my early days of working as a technician I saw one > > > of > > > > > the first Novell fileservers that a "Network Engineer" was working > > > on and when he popped the case (Standard XT Type Case) it was a > > > custom M68000 motherboard, the first I'd ever seen before and I was > > > amazed and it always stuck with me and I've been meaning to go > > > looking for one as I've been working with Novell since 2.12 > > > generating those good old NET$OS files (Oh joy!). > > > > > > > > > Curt > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Sellam Ismail" > > > To: > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:46 PM > > > Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Anyone have on the original Novell 68000 based systems for > > > > > > sale/trade? > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I have two systems including a hard drive subsystem > > > > > with IIRC 2 Rodime 40 MB very noisy hard drives. Since I've > > > > > never fired > > > > > > > them up except for the hard drive module, I don't know if they > > work > > > > > or not. They do not have any software with them but they seem to > > be > > > > > complete and were > > > > > > > > working when pulled from service. Since I am cutting back on > > > > > most things that are post 1982 or so, these are extra. Contact > > > > > me off list if you are interested. > > > > > > > > Wow, that's cool. I didn't realize Novell started on the 68000. > > > > Did it serve files for a PC network? How similar is the NOS to > > > > later versions of Netware? > > > > > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > > Computer > > > Festival > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > -- > > > > -- > > > > ---- > > > ---- > > > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > > > http://www.vintage.org > > > > > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > > > www.VintageTech.com * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu Jun 6 20:31:33 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System In-Reply-To: <3D000E12.880F9BEE@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <005601c20dc3$0f57eec0$023ca8c0@blafleur> Yep... Omninet, that's what it was. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of David Barnes Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 9:36 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System Hmmm Corvus Omninet??? That sounds what you are talking about... used to work on that stuff... great and way ahead of its time... Bob Lafleur wrote: > > Indeed it all began with networking CP/M computers. Around 1981 > > Novell > came to the market with their first networking ??>product, called > S-net. > > Back in 1984 we used a star network device to network some DEC > Rainbows and PC's (both running MS-DOS). I don't remember who made it, > but I really don't think it was Novell. It was a specialized box > though. The wires that connected to the Rainbows and PC's connected > with little slip-on clips that came off quite easily. From marvin at rain.org Thu Jun 6 20:33:18 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System References: <005101c20dba$f2a9fd20$023ca8c0@blafleur> <000b01c20dc2$13050db0$01000001@cvendel> Message-ID: <3D000D5E.BDBA0D89@rain.org> Hi Curt, I tried to email you, but it was rejected with an error message ": host mail.atari-history.com[216.74.138.181] said: 501 5.7.1 ... Sender domain must resolve". Got your email, and I'll get back (somehow) with you next week. Apologies to the rest of the listserver. Marvin Curt Vendel wrote: > > Okay, then that makes more sense. Yeah, the Apple and IBM cards were > called Corvus Transporter Cards, so I would have to assume the same on the > Dec Rainbows, it would be interesting to actually find one of those cards > and have a look at it. > > Curt > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Lafleur" > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 8:33 PM > Subject: RE: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > No, the Rainbow had no built-in network ports except a serial port which > > we had hooked to our VAX and used it with terminal emulation. > > > > Corvus had an add-in card for the Rainbow (and an ISA card for the PC) > > that implemented their specific network protocol (I have no idea what it > > was, but it was not ethernet or anything like that...) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > > On Behalf Of Curt Vendel > > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 7:12 PM > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > > > > So.... the Rainbows, weren't they still using DECnet and LAT through the > > built in AUI??? Was the Corvus Disk Server LAT Compatible or > > something??? > > This is very interesting. > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bob Lafleur" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 4:52 PM > > Subject: RE: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > > > > > No, we didn't use our Corvus system with VMS. DEC Rainbows (semi-PC > > > compatible machines running MS-DOS) and PC's are what we used it with. > > > > > > - Bob > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > > > On Behalf Of Curt Vendel > > > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 4:24 PM > > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > > > > > > > No way? Corvus worked on VMS too??? I never knew that, wow! > > > > > > > > > Curt > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Bob Lafleur" > > > To: > > > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 1:34 PM > > > Subject: RE: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > > > > > > > > That was it. CORVUS, that's what we used to network our DEC Rainbows > > > > > > and PC's back in 1984. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > > > > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > > > > On Behalf Of Curt Vendel > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 1:17 PM > > > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > > Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > > > > > > > > > > Sellam, > > > > > > > > When Novell First started out in I think 1979 they used to be > > > > NDS, Inc. (How Ironic right?) They started out doing custom > > > > build-to-order > > > > > > > hardware > > > > and software. They developed S-Net for serving files and printing > > to > > > > networked machines. Their biggest hurdle was getting files served > > > to > > > > all > > > > of the diverse systems out there at the time (DOS, CP/M and so > > > > forth) and I recall something about Noorda bringing in some > > > > heavy-weight programmer who got their proprietary systems to connect > > > > > > to PC's and other systems and they when they went into a total > > > > re-org, started working on Protective Mode OS's, changed their name > > > > to Novell and really shook things up, one of my other favorites was > > > > Corvus as they were really doing some remarkable stuff and > > > > they got murdered by Novell as they just couldn't keep up. Anybody > > > > remember the old 3Com 3+Open Network Servers that had to load > > > everything > > > > from QIC Tapes? How about Banyan Networks. :-) > > > > > > > > I remember in my early days of working as a technician I saw one > > > > of > > > > > > > the first Novell fileservers that a "Network Engineer" was working > > > > on and when he popped the case (Standard XT Type Case) it was a > > > > custom M68000 motherboard, the first I'd ever seen before and I was > > > > amazed and it always stuck with me and I've been meaning to go > > > > looking for one as I've been working with Novell since 2.12 > > > > generating those good old NET$OS files (Oh joy!). > > > > > > > > > > > > Curt > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Sellam Ismail" > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:46 PM > > > > Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone have on the original Novell 68000 based systems for > > > > > > > sale/trade? > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I have two systems including a hard drive subsystem > > > > > > with IIRC 2 Rodime 40 MB very noisy hard drives. Since I've > > > > > > never fired > > > > > > > > > them up except for the hard drive module, I don't know if they > > > work > > > > > > or not. They do not have any software with them but they seem to > > > be > > > > > > complete and were > > > > > > > > > > working when pulled from service. Since I am cutting back on > > > > > > most things that are post 1982 or so, these are extra. Contact > > > > > > me off list if you are interested. > > > > > > > > > > Wow, that's cool. I didn't realize Novell started on the 68000. > > > > > Did it serve files for a PC network? How similar is the NOS to > > > > > later versions of Netware? > > > > > > > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > > > Computer > > > > Festival > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > -- > > > > > -- > > > > > ---- > > > > ---- > > > > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > > > > http://www.vintage.org > > > > > > > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > > > > www.VintageTech.com * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu Jun 6 20:33:25 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:04 2005 Subject: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System In-Reply-To: <000b01c20dc2$13050db0$01000001@cvendel> Message-ID: <005901c20dc3$522167e0$023ca8c0@blafleur> If I had the foresight back then, I would have saved all that stuff when we "grew" out of it. But when things got more sophistocated, it just became "junk" and probably got thrown out. Who would have thought that 20 years later it might be worth something to collectors... -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Curt Vendel Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 9:25 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System Okay, then that makes more sense. Yeah, the Apple and IBM cards were called Corvus Transporter Cards, so I would have to assume the same on the Dec Rainbows, it would be interesting to actually find one of those cards and have a look at it. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Lafleur" To: Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 8:33 PM Subject: RE: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > No, the Rainbow had no built-in network ports except a serial port > which we had hooked to our VAX and used it with terminal emulation. > > Corvus had an add-in card for the Rainbow (and an ISA card for the PC) > that implemented their specific network protocol (I have no idea what > it was, but it was not ethernet or anything like that...) > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Curt Vendel > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 7:12 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > So.... the Rainbows, weren't they still using DECnet and LAT through the > built in AUI??? Was the Corvus Disk Server LAT Compatible or > something??? > This is very interesting. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Lafleur" > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 4:52 PM > Subject: RE: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > > No, we didn't use our Corvus system with VMS. DEC Rainbows (semi-PC > > compatible machines running MS-DOS) and PC's are what we used it > > with. > > > > - Bob > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > > On Behalf Of Curt Vendel > > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 4:24 PM > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > > > > No way? Corvus worked on VMS too??? I never knew that, wow! > > > > > > Curt > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bob Lafleur" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 1:34 PM > > Subject: RE: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > > > > > That was it. CORVUS, that's what we used to network our DEC > > > Rainbows > > > > and PC's back in 1984. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > > > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > > > On Behalf Of Curt Vendel > > > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 1:17 PM > > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > > > > > > > Sellam, > > > > > > When Novell First started out in I think 1979 they used to be > > > NDS, Inc. (How Ironic right?) They started out doing custom > > > build-to-order > > > > > hardware > > > and software. They developed S-Net for serving files and printing > to > > > networked machines. Their biggest hurdle was getting files served > > to > > > all > > > of the diverse systems out there at the time (DOS, CP/M and so > > > forth) and I recall something about Noorda bringing in some > > > heavy-weight programmer who got their proprietary systems to > > > connect > > > > to PC's and other systems and they when they went into a total > > > re-org, started working on Protective Mode OS's, changed their > > > name to Novell and really shook things up, one of my other > > > favorites was Corvus as they were really doing some remarkable stuff and > > > they got murdered by Novell as they just couldn't keep up. Anybody > > > remember the old 3Com 3+Open Network Servers that had to load > > everything > > > from QIC Tapes? How about Banyan Networks. :-) > > > > > > I remember in my early days of working as a technician I saw > > > one of > > > > > the first Novell fileservers that a "Network Engineer" was working > > > on and when he popped the case (Standard XT Type Case) it was a > > > custom M68000 motherboard, the first I'd ever seen before and I > > > was amazed and it always stuck with me and I've been meaning to go > > > looking for one as I've been working with Novell since 2.12 > > > generating those good old NET$OS files (Oh joy!). > > > > > > > > > Curt > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Sellam Ismail" > > > To: > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:46 PM > > > Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Anyone have on the original Novell 68000 based systems for > > > > > > sale/trade? > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I have two systems including a hard drive subsystem > > > > > with IIRC 2 Rodime 40 MB very noisy hard drives. Since I've > > > > > never fired > > > > > > > them up except for the hard drive module, I don't know if they > > work > > > > > or not. They do not have any software with them but they seem > > > > > to > > be > > > > > complete and were > > > > > > > > working when pulled from service. Since I am cutting back on > > > > > most things that are post 1982 or so, these are extra. Contact > > > > > me off list if you are interested. > > > > > > > > Wow, that's cool. I didn't realize Novell started on the 68000. > > > > Did it serve files for a PC network? How similar is the NOS to > > > > later versions of Netware? > > > > > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > > Computer > > > Festival > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -- > > > > -- > > > > -- > > > > ---- > > > ---- > > > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > > > http://www.vintage.org > > > > > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > > > www.VintageTech.com * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From rodyoung at shaw.ca Thu Jun 6 20:50:24 2002 From: rodyoung at shaw.ca (Rod Young) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:05 2005 Subject: Source for Jiffydos for Commodore 64-SX? References: <200206070119.SAA07420@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <001701c20dc5$b0dbabe0$0300a8c0@ss.shawcable.net> I just looked... there are actually 3 of these Epyx fastload carts on epay just now, In case you're interested. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" To: Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 7:19 PM Subject: Re: Source for Jiffydos for Commodore 64-SX? > > Anyone have a source for these, or failing that, someone have a recipe for > > doing this sort of thing? > > Maurice Randall's site already being posted (also try http://www.cmdrkey.com/) > being the direct answer, but consider a cheaper solution like an Epyx > FastLoad. These cartridges can be had for a couple of bucks on the used > market, are plentiful, and highly compatible with most software (I can count > on my fingers the number of titles I have that don't like it). Plus, you > don't have to install the matching ROM in the disk drive as well (JiffyDOS > is a matched set: a system Kernal replacement and a drive ROM replacement). > > All of my Commodore 64s and 128s are fitted with FastLoads, and I don't know > what I'd do without them. > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- The first duty of a revolutionary is to get away with it. -- Abbie Hoffman - From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jun 6 20:54:16 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:05 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 References: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E50137195A@MAIL10> <001d01c20da7$808fc340$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3D001248.34F0259C@jetnet.ab.ca> Richard Erlacher wrote: > > One of the more interesting features of the 6502 is that when you're looking > at the data bus, it shows you what last was on the bus in those cases where > there's nothing present to drive the data-in bus. This will give you > information useful in figuring out what is going inside the chip, and, that's > what gave me the clues that convinced me that the reason the 6502 is so cheap > on silicon is that it doesn't use counters for its registers, but, rather, > uses simple gated latches and uses the ALU to operate on the addresses during > phase-2 while operating on the data during phase-1. > > If you look at what's required to build a synchronous counter large enough to > support the simple register set in the 6502 you'll see that the saved gates > are sufficient to warrant its design in exactly that way, and that it would > yield a significant savings in silicon. It allows you to use a relatively > complex ALU, together with a register set that's essentially a small RAM array > with an instruction set that never operates on two registers in a single > cycle. If you build the PC, the address bus registers, the SP, the two index > registers, and the accumulator as 8-bit registers, it's easy to see why one > would do things that way. I'm not sure anybody has ever taken a really close > look at what happens when each possible opcode is fed to the 6502 as the first > instruction after a reset and then recorded what the CPU does with it right up > to the next SYNC, signalling that a new opcode is being fetched, but it might > be a useful extension on what's been done. Of course, the 6502 is of little > interest to persons planning any practical endeavors, so this fits squarely > under the aegis of this forum. I think that the 6100 (PDP-8 on a chip) fit this model better. 8 bit cpu's often used random logic thus don't cares and unimplimented opcodes could change actions between cpu mask revisions. Other than the 6800 HCF instruction ( Halt and Catch on Fire ) most undefined instructions are mostly harmess. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From zlep at zlep.net Thu Jun 6 14:38:05 2002 From: zlep at zlep.net (zlep@zlep.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:05 2005 Subject: A British piece Message-ID: <002d01c20d91$b2ea1720$0201a8c0@domain.xy> today i picked up the same Poket Terminal. did somebody find any information about this unit? what type of interface the connector is? It seems, that someone modyfied the connector of my unit, because one cable is cut, and the connections of the others are completely different than that of don's unit. can somebody tell me wich cable(color) is connected on wich pin on the original connector? -zlep From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 6 16:44:44 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:05 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E50137195A@MAIL10> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Jun 2002, Cini, Richard wrote: > While browsing sites for 6800 information, I came across this quote from > . > which talks about the design goals for the 650x in comparison to the 6800. > > >The design goal was a low-cost (smaler chip) design, realized by > simplifying the decoder stage. There were no instructions with the value > xxxxxx11, reducing the 1-of-4 decoder to a single NAND gate. Instructions > with the value xxxxxx11 actually executed two instructions in paralell, some > of them useful. < > Now, I didn't look at an opcode map, but it seems that this is an > interesting twist that I've never seen quoted when people discussed the > mysterious undocumented 6502 opcodes executing what appeared to be multiple > instructions. > Any thoughts? That is indeed very enlightening. I'd always known about the "undocumented opcodes" but never ventured to use them. However, this is pretty much what I guessed was going on (though my hankering was not as technically astute as the reality). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Jun 6 21:29:49 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:05 2005 Subject: Commodore floppy drives; faster than you can type References: <200206070129.SAA27224@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <01aa01c20dcb$33562140$0c000240@default> Were are you at both in TX and MN I can get 1581 for $1 to $10 at the thrifts with the average price of $3.53. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" To: Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 8:29 PM Subject: Re: Commodore floppy drives; faster than you can type > > > Even the lowly 1581 commands an increasingly high price... > > > > Scary. > > Yep, I paid $100 for mine, although granted I bought it in '94. Even today > they'll still run in the $50-60 range. > > > > ... that's not even HD-capable > > > > Wasn't there some buzz about an HD-version of the 1581? A mythical > > prototype, perhaps, not a real, buy-it-off-the-shelf product. ISTR > > some scrambling a while back for "1591 ROMs". AFAIK, it was a > > firmware change and a 1/2-speed Amiga-compatible HD floppy drive, > > but that's about all the detail I remember. > > 1591 ROMs did allegedly exist, but my only contact for them, who actually > built a working replica with the ROMs and an A4000 3.5" mech, managed to > lose them and the prototype in the process. (Argh.) > > Some 1581s are capable of handling HD disks, though they treat them as DD. > So far, though there has been some research on this point, there isn't a > good way externally or even looking at the board to tell. The jury is still > out on the longevity of such "DD-ized" HD floppies in a 1581 anyway. Mine > unfortunately balks on HD floppies. > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws. -- Tacitus --------- > From curt at atari-history.com Thu Jun 6 21:34:37 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:05 2005 Subject: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System References: <005101c20dba$f2a9fd20$023ca8c0@blafleur> <000b01c20dc2$13050db0$01000001@cvendel> <3D000D5E.BDBA0D89@rain.org> Message-ID: <002b01c20dcb$de94c890$01000001@cvendel> Marvin: Sorry about that, I've been getting blitzed with spam for the last 2 days so I jacked up the security on my email server a little too much and was only permitting domains with valid MX records to send me mail, but I also had an extra entry for doing reverseDNS lookups too, so the ruleset ran into a small conflict, I just corrected it (or hope that I have :-) I need to refresh my RBL's and also submit all these asses domains to the RBL's as well to have them blocked off. Damned spammers are getting smarter each day, they are using valid domains like yahoo.com and such and even redoing the headers so that the from is the to so that the domain acceptance is valid, but if the MX doesn't properly reflect the actually, then its rejected. What a pain in the ass. Sorry... just venting. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin Johnston" To: Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 9:33 PM Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > Hi Curt, > > I tried to email you, but it was rejected with an error message > ": host mail.atari-history.com[216.74.138.181] > said: 501 5.7.1 ... Sender domain must resolve". Got > your email, and I'll get back (somehow) with you next week. > > Apologies to the rest of the listserver. > > Marvin > > Curt Vendel wrote: > > > > Okay, then that makes more sense. Yeah, the Apple and IBM cards were > > called Corvus Transporter Cards, so I would have to assume the same on the > > Dec Rainbows, it would be interesting to actually find one of those cards > > and have a look at it. > > > > Curt > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bob Lafleur" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 8:33 PM > > Subject: RE: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > > > No, the Rainbow had no built-in network ports except a serial port which > > > we had hooked to our VAX and used it with terminal emulation. > > > > > > Corvus had an add-in card for the Rainbow (and an ISA card for the PC) > > > that implemented their specific network protocol (I have no idea what it > > > was, but it was not ethernet or anything like that...) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > > > On Behalf Of Curt Vendel > > > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 7:12 PM > > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > > > > > > > So.... the Rainbows, weren't they still using DECnet and LAT through the > > > built in AUI??? Was the Corvus Disk Server LAT Compatible or > > > something??? > > > This is very interesting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Bob Lafleur" > > > To: > > > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 4:52 PM > > > Subject: RE: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > > > > > > > > No, we didn't use our Corvus system with VMS. DEC Rainbows (semi-PC > > > > compatible machines running MS-DOS) and PC's are what we used it with. > > > > > > > > - Bob > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > > > > On Behalf Of Curt Vendel > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 4:24 PM > > > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > > Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > > > > > > > > > > No way? Corvus worked on VMS too??? I never knew that, wow! > > > > > > > > > > > > Curt > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Bob Lafleur" > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 1:34 PM > > > > Subject: RE: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was it. CORVUS, that's what we used to network our DEC Rainbows > > > > > > > > and PC's back in 1984. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > > > > > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > > > > > On Behalf Of Curt Vendel > > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 1:17 PM > > > > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > > > Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sellam, > > > > > > > > > > When Novell First started out in I think 1979 they used to be > > > > > NDS, Inc. (How Ironic right?) They started out doing custom > > > > > build-to-order > > > > > > > > > hardware > > > > > and software. They developed S-Net for serving files and printing > > > to > > > > > networked machines. Their biggest hurdle was getting files served > > > > to > > > > > all > > > > > of the diverse systems out there at the time (DOS, CP/M and so > > > > > forth) and I recall something about Noorda bringing in some > > > > > heavy-weight programmer who got their proprietary systems to connect > > > > > > > > to PC's and other systems and they when they went into a total > > > > > re-org, started working on Protective Mode OS's, changed their name > > > > > to Novell and really shook things up, one of my other favorites was > > > > > Corvus as they were really doing some remarkable stuff and > > > > > they got murdered by Novell as they just couldn't keep up. Anybody > > > > > remember the old 3Com 3+Open Network Servers that had to load > > > > everything > > > > > from QIC Tapes? How about Banyan Networks. :-) > > > > > > > > > > I remember in my early days of working as a technician I saw one > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > the first Novell fileservers that a "Network Engineer" was working > > > > > on and when he popped the case (Standard XT Type Case) it was a > > > > > custom M68000 motherboard, the first I'd ever seen before and I was > > > > > amazed and it always stuck with me and I've been meaning to go > > > > > looking for one as I've been working with Novell since 2.12 > > > > > generating those good old NET$OS files (Oh joy!). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Curt > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Sellam Ismail" > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:46 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone have on the original Novell 68000 based systems for > > > > > > > > sale/trade? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I have two systems including a hard drive subsystem > > > > > > > with IIRC 2 Rodime 40 MB very noisy hard drives. Since I've > > > > > > > never fired > > > > > > > > > > > them up except for the hard drive module, I don't know if they > > > > work > > > > > > > or not. They do not have any software with them but they seem to > > > > be > > > > > > > complete and were > > > > > > > > > > > > working when pulled from service. Since I am cutting back on > > > > > > > most things that are post 1982 or so, these are extra. Contact > > > > > > > me off list if you are interested. > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow, that's cool. I didn't realize Novell started on the 68000. > > > > > > Did it serve files for a PC network? How similar is the NOS to > > > > > > later versions of Netware? > > > > > > > > > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > > > > Computer > > > > > Festival > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > -- > > > > > > -- > > > > > > ---- > > > > > ---- > > > > > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > > > > > http://www.vintage.org > > > > > > > > > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > > > > > www.VintageTech.com * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jun 6 21:43:32 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:05 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 References: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E50137195A@MAIL10> <001d01c20da7$808fc340$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3D001248.34F0259C@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <001b01c20dcd$1d1b9980$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> One of the things that kept the 6502 cheaper than the average microprocessor was that there weren't any such changes of which I was made aware until the CMOS parts were released. These had several different instruction sets, for some odd reason, mostly thanks to Rockwell, I think, but the unimplemented opcodes were, IIRC, implemented as NOP's. New features included such things as waits on write cycles, and no bogus reads on indexed instructions. This fouled up some hardware/software interactions. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Franchuk" To: Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > One of the more interesting features of the 6502 is that when you're looking > > at the data bus, it shows you what last was on the bus in those cases where > > there's nothing present to drive the data-in bus. This will give you > > information useful in figuring out what is going inside the chip, and, that's > > what gave me the clues that convinced me that the reason the 6502 is so cheap > > on silicon is that it doesn't use counters for its registers, but, rather, > > uses simple gated latches and uses the ALU to operate on the addresses during > > phase-2 while operating on the data during phase-1. > > > > If you look at what's required to build a synchronous counter large enough to > > support the simple register set in the 6502 you'll see that the saved gates > > are sufficient to warrant its design in exactly that way, and that it would > > yield a significant savings in silicon. It allows you to use a relatively > > complex ALU, together with a register set that's essentially a small RAM array > > with an instruction set that never operates on two registers in a single > > cycle. If you build the PC, the address bus registers, the SP, the two index > > registers, and the accumulator as 8-bit registers, it's easy to see why one > > would do things that way. I'm not sure anybody has ever taken a really close > > look at what happens when each possible opcode is fed to the 6502 as the first > > instruction after a reset and then recorded what the CPU does with it right up > > to the next SYNC, signalling that a new opcode is being fetched, but it might > > be a useful extension on what's been done. Of course, the 6502 is of little > > interest to persons planning any practical endeavors, so this fits squarely > > under the aegis of this forum. > > I think that the 6100 (PDP-8 on a chip) fit this model better. > 8 bit cpu's often used random logic thus don't cares and unimplimented > opcodes > could change actions between cpu mask revisions. Other than the 6800 > HCF > instruction ( Halt and Catch on Fire ) most undefined instructions > are mostly harmess. > > -- > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 6 20:44:44 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:05 2005 Subject: ID these DEC cards? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020605223358.44bf57c8@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Jun 5, 2 10:33:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1503 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020607/b8ba1f14/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 6 20:47:35 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:05 2005 Subject: Commodore floppy drives; faster than you can type In-Reply-To: <20020606025542.GA26407@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Jun 5, 2 10:55:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 744 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020607/4f0db02d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 6 21:00:14 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:05 2005 Subject: Motorola S-record converter source for new project In-Reply-To: <200206061415.g56EFdOI083483@daemonweed.reanimators.org> from "Frank McConnell" at Jun 6, 2 07:15:39 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1101 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020607/3829156f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 6 21:23:45 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:05 2005 Subject: Corrupted scrolling video (was: Wanted: Kaypro 2'84/2x In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jun 6, 2 10:17:16 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 733 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020607/c67354f2/attachment.ksh From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu Jun 6 21:57:52 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:05 2005 Subject: Monitors for Vaxstation Message-ID: What kind of monitors can be used with the Vaxstation models (2000, 3100, etc)? I know there are different flavors of Vaxstation graphics - monochrome, "GPX", etc. Which is the easiest to deal with monitor-wise? Can an adapter be built to use a standard multi-syncable VGA monitor? Thanks for any info. - Bob From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jun 6 22:48:39 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:05 2005 Subject: Monitors for Vaxstation In-Reply-To: from "Bob Lafleur" at Jun 06, 2002 10:57:52 PM Message-ID: <200206070348.g573mdr07420@shell1.aracnet.com> > What kind of monitors can be used with the Vaxstation models (2000, 3100, > etc)? I know there are different flavors of Vaxstation graphics - > monochrome, "GPX", etc. Which is the easiest to deal with monitor-wise? Can > an adapter be built to use a standard multi-syncable VGA monitor? Thanks for > any info. > > - Bob > I'm not sure about the 2000, or the 3100's, however, I've successfully attached a Multisync monitor to my 4000/vlc, and I believe either my 4000/60 or 4000/90. Of course I used a DEC cable with BNC connnectors to hook up to the monitor. Personally I prefer a VT420 on my VAXen to a Monitor. I even end up using a VT420 on most of my Alpha's. Zane From dittman at dittman.net Thu Jun 6 23:08:36 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:05 2005 Subject: Monitors for Vaxstation In-Reply-To: <200206070348.g573mdr07420@shell1.aracnet.com> from "Zane H. Healy" at Jun 06, 2002 08:48:39 PM Message-ID: <200206070408.g5748aX06966@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Personally I prefer a VT420 on my VAXen to a Monitor. I even end up using a > VT420 on most of my Alpha's. All of my VAX and Alpha systems use a serial console attached to a DECserver 90M (even the systems with graphics cards and monitors attached). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jun 6 23:35:01 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:05 2005 Subject: Monitors for Vaxstation In-Reply-To: from "Eric Dittman" at Jun 06, 2002 11:08:36 PM Message-ID: <200206070435.g574Z1M08747@shell1.aracnet.com> > All of my VAX and Alpha systems use a serial console attached > to a DECserver 90M (even the systems with graphics cards and > monitors attached). I'd *LOVE* to be able to do this, unfortunatly, I don't have a DECserver that supports this. Someday.... Zane From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jun 7 00:13:53 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:05 2005 Subject: Monitors for Vaxstation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Jun 2002, Bob Lafleur wrote: > What kind of monitors can be used with the Vaxstation models (2000, 3100, > etc)? I know there are different flavors of Vaxstation graphics - > monochrome, "GPX", etc. Which is the easiest to deal with monitor-wise? Can > an adapter be built to use a standard multi-syncable VGA monitor? Thanks for > any info. I think any multi-sync _sync-on-green_ capable display will work. I've used an IBM Power17 display, a 6091-19, a Sun-badged Hitachi, a VR297 and an actual DEC color display whose model # escapes me. The 2000, all the 3100 graphics, and the base 4000/60 graphics are pretty vanilla refresh & sync rates, so a decent SOG multi-sync should work fine. Doc From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jun 7 00:21:50 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:05 2005 Subject: Commodore floppy drives; faster than you can type In-Reply-To: <01aa01c20dcb$33562140$0c000240@default> from "John R. Keys Jr." at "Jun 6, 2 09:29:49 pm" Message-ID: <200206070521.WAA27232@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Were are you at both in TX and MN I can get 1581 for $1 to $10 at the > thrifts with the average price of $3.53. John, having seen what you come up with on your hauls I'm convinced you live in a completely parallel dimension. :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- It's bad luck to be suspicious. -- Andrew W. Mathis ------------------------ From sloboyko at yahoo.com Fri Jun 7 00:34:27 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:05 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 In-Reply-To: <3D001248.34F0259C@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20020607053427.30198.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> I'm building a 6800 machine right now and I was wondering about this "Halt and Catch on Fire" instruction. Is this for real. This is a serious question. Is there actually an instruction that will overheat the chip? --- Ben Franchuk wrote: > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > One of the more interesting features of the 6502 > is that when you're looking > > at the data bus, it shows you what last was on the > bus in those cases where > > there's nothing present to drive the data-in bus. > This will give you > > information useful in figuring out what is going > inside the chip, and, that's > > what gave me the clues that convinced me that the > reason the 6502 is so cheap > > on silicon is that it doesn't use counters for its > registers, but, rather, > > uses simple gated latches and uses the ALU to > operate on the addresses during > > phase-2 while operating on the data during > phase-1. > > > > If you look at what's required to build a > synchronous counter large enough to > > support the simple register set in the 6502 you'll > see that the saved gates > > are sufficient to warrant its design in exactly > that way, and that it would > > yield a significant savings in silicon. It allows > you to use a relatively > > complex ALU, together with a register set that's > essentially a small RAM array > > with an instruction set that never operates on two > registers in a single > > cycle. If you build the PC, the address bus > registers, the SP, the two index > > registers, and the accumulator as 8-bit registers, > it's easy to see why one > > would do things that way. I'm not sure anybody > has ever taken a really close > > look at what happens when each possible opcode is > fed to the 6502 as the first > > instruction after a reset and then recorded what > the CPU does with it right up > > to the next SYNC, signalling that a new opcode is > being fetched, but it might > > be a useful extension on what's been done. Of > course, the 6502 is of little > > interest to persons planning any practical > endeavors, so this fits squarely > > under the aegis of this forum. > > I think that the 6100 (PDP-8 on a chip) fit this > model better. > 8 bit cpu's often used random logic thus don't cares > and unimplimented > opcodes > could change actions between cpu mask revisions. > Other than the 6800 > HCF > instruction ( Halt and Catch on Fire ) most > undefined instructions > are mostly harmess. > > -- > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Fri Jun 7 00:48:04 2002 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (jarkko.teppo@er-grp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:05 2005 Subject: Source for Jiffydos for Commodore 64-SX? In-Reply-To: <200206070119.SAA07420@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200206070119.SAA07420@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <20020607054804.GA821@mail.er-grp.com> On Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 06:19:02PM -0700, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > Anyone have a source for these, or failing that, someone have a recipe for > > doing this sort of thing? > > All of my Commodore 64s and 128s are fitted with FastLoads, and I don't know > what I'd do without them. > Same here, but with Action Replay VI:s. They're the best thing that ever happened to my C64's. I also have a 1764 memory expansion but it pales in comparison to the coolness that is AR VI. -- jht From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Jun 7 01:04:10 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:05 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 References: <20020607053427.30198.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D004CDA.88E4383C@jetnet.ab.ca> Loboyko Steve wrote: > > I'm building a 6800 machine right now and I was > wondering about this "Halt and Catch on Fire" > instruction. Is this for real. This is a serious > question. Is there actually an instruction that will > overheat the chip? Not on the 6800 but I believe some FORTH chips have that problem. This instruction for the 6800 if remember right just continually increments the address bus, ignoring any data read. Only a hard RESET will reset the machine from this state. I think the opcode is $00. From rhudson at cnonline.net Fri Jun 7 01:46:30 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:05 2005 Subject: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02060623463000.01702@sputnik> On Thursday 06 June 2002 10:37 am, you wrote: > Don't forget that the Televideo PM-16 runs an OEM version of Netware 1.1 or > so... > > Will J > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com The PM-16 ran both netware 1.x and eventually 2.x. With 2.x you could buy a little card that had an OMNI-NET nic. That was used to connect PM-16s together. Workstations were connected with RS488? some serial connection, 15pin usually ribbon cable. I worked at TeleVideo during the Novell 1.1 --> Novel 3.x Novell at one time also had a box that ran SCO unix, both as a workstation (with X) and as a "server" that you could hook up a bunch of terminals to. From enrico.badella at softstar.it Fri Jun 7 02:48:42 2002 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:05 2005 Subject: Monitors for Vaxstation References: Message-ID: <3D00655A.E081FF9B@softstar.it> Bob Lafleur wrote: > > What kind of monitors can be used with the Vaxstation models (2000, 3100, > etc)? I know there are different flavors of Vaxstation graphics - > monochrome, "GPX", etc. Which is the easiest to deal with monitor-wise? Can > an adapter be built to use a standard multi-syncable VGA monitor? Thanks for I'm using successfully a Nec 4D, and 2 Nec 6FG for a uVax II GPX, a Vaxstation 3100M38 and a VAXstation 4000/60; was lucky to find 2 original DEC cables with BNCs. For the 4000 I'm using the cable that came with an IBM RS6000/320H e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Fri Jun 7 03:52:48 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:05 2005 Subject: OpenVMS license expiration date References: <20020606174802.GC26407@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <3CFFA225.9B65B7CC@naffnet.org.uk> Message-ID: <3D007460.4DF169FC@Vishay.com> That's my understanding, too: you have to renew every year. German people will understand what I mean by commenting "same procedure as every year, Miss Sophie?" Let's hope VMS will get as old as her. "Cheerio, Miss Sophie!!!" Another bit: the expiration date of a license is being checked when the license is LOADED, not when it is USED. That means, once you loaded a license before it has expired (usually by booting your VMS before this date), the system will not recognize that the license has become invalid until you LICENSE UNLOAD or reboot. You may want to keep track of expiration dates to avoid surprises. Andreas Dave Woodman wrote: > > After the license expires you will need to get another license:- and again a > year after that one expires, year after year after year after... > > Once the license has expired you'll only be able to log into the console. > > This is the way that the hobbyist program works. I'm afraid, > > Dave. -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Jun 7 07:51:56 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:05 2005 Subject: FBI Computers? Message-ID: Now that the FBI is going to modernize its "antiquated" and "out of date" computer system, does anyone know what kind of equipment we might see reach the surplus market? (I don't expect many working hard disk drives.) Bob From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Jun 7 08:06:38 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:05 2005 Subject: FBI Computers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020607080444.03277738@pc> At 06:51 AM 6/7/2002 -0600, Feldman, Robert wrote: >Now that the FBI is going to modernize its "antiquated" and "out of date" >computer system, does anyone know what kind of equipment we might see reach >the surplus market? (I don't expect many working hard disk drives.) On Wisconsin public radio yesterday, they were blaming some amount of 9-11 on Louis Freeh's "I hate computers" policy, and some talking head claimed that agents were so disgusted by the slowness of their "386s and 486s that wouldn't even be accepted by churches as donations". - John From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Jun 7 08:26:01 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:05 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 In-Reply-To: <3D004CDA.88E4383C@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: This only occurred in the very first step level of the 6800 released, IIRC. You'd be hard pressed to find any parts with this flaw. And even if you should wind up flaming a part (which are astromical odds these days), 6800s are still readily available. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ben Franchuk Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 02:04 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 Loboyko Steve wrote: > > I'm building a 6800 machine right now and I was > wondering about this "Halt and Catch on Fire" > instruction. Is this for real. This is a serious > question. Is there actually an instruction that will > overheat the chip? Not on the 6800 but I believe some FORTH chips have that problem. This instruction for the 6800 if remember right just continually increments the address bus, ignoring any data read. Only a hard RESET will reset the machine from this state. I think the opcode is $00. From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 7 09:12:24 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:05 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 References: <20020607053427.30198.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002201c20e2d$5ae3f040$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I don't see an HCF in the Mot listings of their instruction set. I've heard about this fiction over several decades now, and, surely, it must be clear to you that there's no way the microprocessor can cause that effect without the aid of external hardware. We used to joke about a BEO instruction (branch and execute operator) but I've never seen the effects of that one either. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Loboyko Steve" To: Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 11:34 PM Subject: Re: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 > I'm building a 6800 machine right now and I was > wondering about this "Halt and Catch on Fire" > instruction. Is this for real. This is a serious > question. Is there actually an instruction that will > overheat the chip? > > --- Ben Franchuk wrote: > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > > One of the more interesting features of the 6502 > > is that when you're looking > > > at the data bus, it shows you what last was on the > > bus in those cases where > > > there's nothing present to drive the data-in bus. > > This will give you > > > information useful in figuring out what is going > > inside the chip, and, that's > > > what gave me the clues that convinced me that the > > reason the 6502 is so cheap > > > on silicon is that it doesn't use counters for its > > registers, but, rather, > > > uses simple gated latches and uses the ALU to > > operate on the addresses during > > > phase-2 while operating on the data during > > phase-1. > > > > > > If you look at what's required to build a > > synchronous counter large enough to > > > support the simple register set in the 6502 you'll > > see that the saved gates > > > are sufficient to warrant its design in exactly > > that way, and that it would > > > yield a significant savings in silicon. It allows > > you to use a relatively > > > complex ALU, together with a register set that's > > essentially a small RAM array > > > with an instruction set that never operates on two > > registers in a single > > > cycle. If you build the PC, the address bus > > registers, the SP, the two index > > > registers, and the accumulator as 8-bit registers, > > it's easy to see why one > > > would do things that way. I'm not sure anybody > > has ever taken a really close > > > look at what happens when each possible opcode is > > fed to the 6502 as the first > > > instruction after a reset and then recorded what > > the CPU does with it right up > > > to the next SYNC, signalling that a new opcode is > > being fetched, but it might > > > be a useful extension on what's been done. Of > > course, the 6502 is of little > > > interest to persons planning any practical > > endeavors, so this fits squarely > > > under the aegis of this forum. > > > > I think that the 6100 (PDP-8 on a chip) fit this > > model better. > > 8 bit cpu's often used random logic thus don't cares > > and unimplimented > > opcodes > > could change actions between cpu mask revisions. > > Other than the 6800 > > HCF > > instruction ( Halt and Catch on Fire ) most > > undefined instructions > > are mostly harmess. > > > > -- > > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 7 09:15:57 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:05 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 References: Message-ID: <002c01c20e2d$d7a7a2c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It's crap like this that causes the confusion that Steve pointed out. Why can't we keep some distance between fact and facetious fiction for the benefit of those whose knowledge is largely semantic? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.C. Wren" To: Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 7:26 AM Subject: RE: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 > This only occurred in the very first step level of the 6800 released, IIRC. > You'd be hard pressed to find any parts with this flaw. And even if you > should wind up flaming a part (which are astromical odds these days), 6800s > are still readily available. > > --John > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Ben Franchuk > Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 02:04 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 > > > Loboyko Steve wrote: > > > > I'm building a 6800 machine right now and I was > > wondering about this "Halt and Catch on Fire" > > instruction. Is this for real. This is a serious > > question. Is there actually an instruction that will > > overheat the chip? > > Not on the 6800 but I believe some FORTH chips have that problem. > This instruction for the 6800 if remember right just continually > increments the address bus, ignoring any data read. Only a hard > RESET will reset the machine from this state. I think the opcode > is $00. > > > From sloboyko at yahoo.com Fri Jun 7 09:57:12 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:05 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 In-Reply-To: <002201c20e2d$5ae3f040$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20020607145712.33983.qmail@web11805.mail.yahoo.com> Well, it isn't beyond the realm of possibility that an unimplemented op code or strange code could do something bad to the states of a chip, potentially overheating the i/o interfaces. For example, the PII/III...etc are designed to shut down certain subsystems when they aren't used (the floating point, part, for example). Certain software can force the processor ro keep everything on and get the chip to its maximum temperature, possibly causing a machine with marginal construction or marginal internal/external thermal management to fail. Also, I was thinking that some of these "smart cards" might be designed to self-destruct upon execution of an unimplemented opcode. Maybe a military processor in a dangerous device might be designed this way also, so that the computer would crash and immediately self-destruct before doing something, shall we say, "unexpected". So, I don't think my question was THAT unreasonable. I am working with 75/76 dated chips marked "XC", also, so I probably DO have the first externally available silicon or nearly so. --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > I don't see an HCF in the Mot listings of their > instruction set. > > I've heard about this fiction over several decades > now, and, surely, it must > be clear to you that there's no way the > microprocessor can cause that effect > without the aid of external hardware. > > We used to joke about a BEO instruction (branch and > execute operator) but I've > never seen the effects of that one either. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Loboyko Steve" > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 11:34 PM > Subject: Re: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 > > > > I'm building a 6800 machine right now and I was > > wondering about this "Halt and Catch on Fire" > > instruction. Is this for real. This is a serious > > question. Is there actually an instruction that > will > > overheat the chip? > > > > --- Ben Franchuk wrote: > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > > > > One of the more interesting features of the > 6502 > > > is that when you're looking > > > > at the data bus, it shows you what last was on > the > > > bus in those cases where > > > > there's nothing present to drive the data-in > bus. > > > This will give you > > > > information useful in figuring out what is > going > > > inside the chip, and, that's > > > > what gave me the clues that convinced me that > the > > > reason the 6502 is so cheap > > > > on silicon is that it doesn't use counters for > its > > > registers, but, rather, > > > > uses simple gated latches and uses the ALU to > > > operate on the addresses during > > > > phase-2 while operating on the data during > > > phase-1. > > > > > > > > If you look at what's required to build a > > > synchronous counter large enough to > > > > support the simple register set in the 6502 > you'll > > > see that the saved gates > > > > are sufficient to warrant its design in > exactly > > > that way, and that it would > > > > yield a significant savings in silicon. It > allows > > > you to use a relatively > > > > complex ALU, together with a register set > that's > > > essentially a small RAM array > > > > with an instruction set that never operates on > two > > > registers in a single > > > > cycle. If you build the PC, the address bus > > > registers, the SP, the two index > > > > registers, and the accumulator as 8-bit > registers, > > > it's easy to see why one > > > > would do things that way. I'm not sure > anybody > > > has ever taken a really close > > > > look at what happens when each possible opcode > is > > > fed to the 6502 as the first > > > > instruction after a reset and then recorded > what > > > the CPU does with it right up > > > > to the next SYNC, signalling that a new opcode > is > > > being fetched, but it might > > > > be a useful extension on what's been done. Of > > > course, the 6502 is of little > > > > interest to persons planning any practical > > > endeavors, so this fits squarely > > > > under the aegis of this forum. > > > > > > I think that the 6100 (PDP-8 on a chip) fit this > > > model better. > > > 8 bit cpu's often used random logic thus don't > cares > > > and unimplimented > > > opcodes > > > could change actions between cpu mask revisions. > > > Other than the 6800 > > > HCF > > > instruction ( Halt and Catch on Fire ) most > > > undefined instructions > > > are mostly harmess. > > > > > > -- > > > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > > > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup > > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Jun 7 10:00:09 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 In-Reply-To: <002c01c20e2d$d7a7a2c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: Why don't you learn that you don't always know what you're talking about? Indeed, the first step level of the 6800 had an undocumented opcode that results in 3 particular transistors turning on that connected Vcc to GND. The damage caused by these three transistors shorting damaged the silicon in the immediate area, rendering the CPU useless. But since the shop I worked for only flamed out 2 Sphere-II 6800 CPUs before the Motorola FAE defined the problem and gave us new parts, it probably didn't really happen, since you said it's fiction. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 10:16 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 It's crap like this that causes the confusion that Steve pointed out. Why can't we keep some distance between fact and facetious fiction for the benefit of those whose knowledge is largely semantic? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.C. Wren" To: Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 7:26 AM Subject: RE: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 > This only occurred in the very first step level of the 6800 released, IIRC. > You'd be hard pressed to find any parts with this flaw. And even if you > should wind up flaming a part (which are astromical odds these days), 6800s > are still readily available. > > --John > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Ben Franchuk > Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 02:04 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 > > > Loboyko Steve wrote: > > > > I'm building a 6800 machine right now and I was > > wondering about this "Halt and Catch on Fire" > > instruction. Is this for real. This is a serious > > question. Is there actually an instruction that will > > overheat the chip? > > Not on the 6800 but I believe some FORTH chips have that problem. > This instruction for the 6800 if remember right just continually > increments the address bus, ignoring any data read. Only a hard > RESET will reset the machine from this state. I think the opcode > is $00. > > > From frustum at pacbell.net Fri Jun 7 10:21:30 2002 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 In-Reply-To: References: <002c01c20e2d$d7a7a2c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020607081822.02143dc0@postoffice.pacbell.net> At 11:00 AM 6/7/02 -0400, you wrote: > Why don't you learn that you don't always know what you're > talking about? > > Indeed, the first step level of the 6800 had an undocumented > opcode that >results in 3 particular transistors turning on that connected Vcc to GND. >The damage caused by these three transistors shorting damaged the silicon in >the immediate area, rendering the CPU useless. The R2000 MIPS CPU's had a similar problem. The TLB was implemented via a small CAM. If more than one entry matched the virtual address, there was a fight between two different words attempting to drive the output bitlines. This wouldn't be a problem other than the fact that the TLB contents were managed by software. Granted, the code would be supervisor code and not user code, but when developing the supervisor software, there was always the danger that buggy software could damage the chip. I believe this was fixed in R3000 and later parts. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 7 10:21:48 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:06 2005 Subject: Undefined instructions in 8-bit processors (was Re: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502) In-Reply-To: <3D001248.34F0259C@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20020607152148.19173.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ben Franchuk wrote: > 8 bit cpu's... most undefined instructions > are mostly harmess. There is one undefined instruction on the 1802 - $68 IIRC. It's in the group of I/O instructions, but there are only 7 defined ports (with the N-lines indicating 1-7 at the appropriate cycle). The later, extended versions of the 1802 used $68 as an opcode extender. The reason for bringing it up is that I remember playing on the Elf 20 years ago, and noticing that if I accidentally executed a $68, the CPU would go berserk and whomp on random patches of memory. If it happened, I was guaranteed to have to retoggle the program in from scratch. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Jun 7 10:31:13 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 References: Message-ID: <3D00D1C1.DB998F9F@jetnet.ab.ca> "J.C. Wren" wrote: > > Why don't you learn that you don't always know what you're talking about? > > Indeed, the first step level of the 6800 had an undocumented opcode that > results in 3 particular transistors turning on that connected Vcc to GND. > The damage caused by these three transistors shorting damaged the silicon in > the immediate area, rendering the CPU useless. > > But since the shop I worked for only flamed out 2 Sphere-II 6800 CPUs > before the Motorola FAE defined the problem and gave us new parts, it > probably didn't really happen, since you said it's fiction. Since this was a early and rare version of the 6800 and most of my information is second hand stuff (general computer books vs data sheets ) information like this is useful trivia. Even modern chips can have hard to find bugs, like the pentium division bug. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Jun 7 10:37:05 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 References: <20020607053427.30198.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> <002201c20e2d$5ae3f040$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3D00D321.CEEC5D48@jetnet.ab.ca> Richard Erlacher wrote: > > I don't see an HCF in the Mot listings of their instruction set. > > I've heard about this fiction over several decades now, and, surely, it must > be clear to you that there's no way the microprocessor can cause that effect > without the aid of external hardware. > > We used to joke about a BEO instruction (branch and execute operator) but I've > never seen the effects of that one either. I can't remember the memonics but Branch on bit bucket full and Branch both ways and interupt when turned off come to mind. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Jun 7 11:12:05 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:06 2005 Subject: Joke Mnemonics In-Reply-To: <3D00D321.CEEC5D48@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: Back In The Day (mid 70s) I was doing a design based on the Z80 stuff. Someone doctored up and circulated several of the relevant datasheets. Among the japery therein was : JGL - Jump and Get Lost BGR - Branch for no Good Reason SBW - Shift Both Ways SSP - Sharpen Stack Pointer (After much use, they apparently get dull) RWO - Registers Write Only CRA - Convert to Random Address IBD - Interpolate Data Bits CSR - Context Sensitive Reset and my personal favorite POF - Power On Fail The data sheets also had numerous other little details... one I liked was the address line's rise-time called out as: "6:45 AM, Mon -> Fri" Cheers John From pcw at mesanet.com Fri Jun 7 11:24:57 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:06 2005 Subject: Joke Mnemonics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Jun 2002, John Lawson wrote: > > > Back In The Day (mid 70s) I was doing a design based on the Z80 stuff. > Someone doctored up and circulated several of the relevant datasheets. > Among the japery therein was : > > JGL - Jump and Get Lost > BGR - Branch for no Good Reason > SBW - Shift Both Ways > SSP - Sharpen Stack Pointer (After much use, they apparently get dull) > RWO - Registers Write Only > CRA - Convert to Random Address > IBD - Interpolate Data Bits > CSR - Context Sensitive Reset > > and my personal favorite > > POF - Power On Fail > > > The data sheets also had numerous other little details... one I liked > was the address line's rise-time called out as: "6:45 AM, Mon -> Fri" > > > > Cheers > > John > > > > Reminds me of the same vintage Signetics data sheet for the 9046 bit Write Only Memory. Always liked the "Pins remaining versus socket insertions" chart... Peter Wallace From mythtech at mac.com Fri Jun 7 11:32:59 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [OT] measuring DC wall wart Message-ID: This is off topic, since the wall wart is only a few years old, but there are some great electrical people here, so I am asking because I know someone will know the answer. I have a wall wart to a modem. I got the modem and wart in a box of used stuff (ooh, some of which was more than 10 years old, so at least there is a reference to on-topicness). The modem failed to work from the day I got it. Today, someone that has the same modem asked if I had a power supply they could have. I planned to give them mine, since I have no real use for it. But before I mailed it to them, a voice went off in my head telling me to stick it on a meter first. It's label says it is a 9vDC, 400mA Pos-tip wart. But when I hook it up to a meter, I get 15v DC off it. That seems a little high, even for something under no load. Should I safely assume the wart is no good, and point the person elsewhere (Rat Shack sells a usuable unit for only about $14, so it isn't like the person has no other choice). Or is it normal for a 9v supply to put out 15 volts? Any that I have measured in the past have not been THAT far off (I was expecting to maybe get 10 or 12 volts, but not 15). If this thing has been pumping too much voltage, that might explain the dead modem I have (or the modem could have been used as a soccer ball, who knows, it was dead when I got it). I just don't want to send the person a bad supply, and have them fry their modem when they try to use it. -chris From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Fri Jun 7 11:33:55 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 Message-ID: <200206071633.JAA08931@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Ben Franchuk" > >Loboyko Steve wrote: >> >> I'm building a 6800 machine right now and I was >> wondering about this "Halt and Catch on Fire" >> instruction. Is this for real. This is a serious >> question. Is there actually an instruction that will >> overheat the chip? > >Not on the 6800 but I believe some FORTH chips have that problem. >This instruction for the 6800 if remember right just continually >increments the address bus, ignoring any data read. Only a hard >RESET will reset the machine from this state. I think the opcode >is $00. > Hi Instructions that would continuously increment the address are vary useful for debugging address decoding problems. On an 8080, about the only useful sequence is to have a pop and jmp, using 4 locations. It may have been that the 6800 one was a debug instruction that was designed in. Dwight From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Jun 7 11:55:10 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 In-Reply-To: <200206071633.JAA08931@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020607115510.0080d8b0@ubanproductions.com> I worked with a 6809 system back in the early 80s which had an LED board to display the state of all of the system signals. I don't recall the OP code, but there was one which would continuously cycle the address, data, and other signals until reset. It made the LEDs light up like a christmas tree. --tom At 09:33 AM 6/7/02 -0700, you wrote: >>From: "Ben Franchuk" >> >>Loboyko Steve wrote: >>> >>> I'm building a 6800 machine right now and I was >>> wondering about this "Halt and Catch on Fire" >>> instruction. Is this for real. This is a serious >>> question. Is there actually an instruction that will >>> overheat the chip? >> >>Not on the 6800 but I believe some FORTH chips have that problem. >>This instruction for the 6800 if remember right just continually >>increments the address bus, ignoring any data read. Only a hard >>RESET will reset the machine from this state. I think the opcode >>is $00. >> > >Hi > Instructions that would continuously increment the address >are vary useful for debugging address decoding problems. >On an 8080, about the only useful sequence is to have >a pop and jmp, using 4 locations. > It may have been that the 6800 one was a debug instruction >that was designed in. >Dwight > > > > From sloboyko at yahoo.com Fri Jun 7 12:33:37 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [OT] measuring DC wall wart In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020607173337.210.qmail@web11802.mail.yahoo.com> Been my experience that a wall wart under no load (or any transformer under no load for that matter) will go a LOT higher than its 'rating'. I'd put, like, a 500 ohm resistor across it (if it's less than 1/2 watt, might get "a little warm"!!) and measure it again. BTW a surprising amount of equipment has negative tip. If you aren't sure about the equipment I'd take a meter and look for ~0 ohm from a ground to the "ring" of the power connector. Badly made equipment didn't have ANY protection from reverse polarity. I like the RS adapers; just about the most useful+reasonably-priced thing in the darned store. --- Chris wrote: > This is off topic, since the wall wart is only a few > years old, but there > are some great electrical people here, so I am > asking because I know > someone will know the answer. > > I have a wall wart to a modem. I got the modem and > wart in a box of used > stuff (ooh, some of which was more than 10 years > old, so at least there > is a reference to on-topicness). > > The modem failed to work from the day I got it. > Today, someone that has > the same modem asked if I had a power supply they > could have. I planned > to give them mine, since I have no real use for it. > > But before I mailed it to them, a voice went off in > my head telling me to > stick it on a meter first. It's label says it is a > 9vDC, 400mA Pos-tip > wart. But when I hook it up to a meter, I get 15v DC > off it. > > That seems a little high, even for something under > no load. Should I > safely assume the wart is no good, and point the > person elsewhere (Rat > Shack sells a usuable unit for only about $14, so it > isn't like the > person has no other choice). Or is it normal for a > 9v supply to put out > 15 volts? Any that I have measured in the past have > not been THAT far off > (I was expecting to maybe get 10 or 12 volts, but > not 15). > > If this thing has been pumping too much voltage, > that might explain the > dead modem I have (or the modem could have been used > as a soccer ball, > who knows, it was dead when I got it). I just don't > want to send the > person a bad supply, and have them fry their modem > when they try to use > it. > > -chris > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Fri Jun 7 12:41:24 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (carlos_murillo@epm.net.co) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:06 2005 Subject: VMS doesn't recognize all physical memory? Message-ID: <3CFD381B00001B5C@lauta.epm.net.co> Hello everyone; I have noticed that OpenVMS 7.2 doesn't seem to recognize all of the physical memory in my vaxstation 4000/60; I am sure that I have 32 MB (8MB mainboard + 6 x 4MB modules) and in fact it is recognized by the prom: KR46-A V1.1-31E-V4.0 08-00-2B-2A-F8-AB 32MB ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| OK 85 RESTART SYS >>> >>> show config KR46-A V1.1-31E-V4.0 08-00-2B-2A-F8-AB 32MB DEVNBR DEVNAM INFO ------ -------- ------------------------------- 1 NVR OK 2 LCG OK HR - 8PLN FB - V1.1 3 DZ OK 4 CACHE OK 5 MEM OK 32MB = SY=8MB, S0/1=8MB, S2/3=8MB, S4/5=8MB 6 FPU OK 7 IT OK 8 SYS OK 9 NI OK 10 SCSI OK 0-ST31200 5-TZ30 6-INITR 7-CD-ROM 11 AUD OK >>> Similarly, the TEST 100 command tests all of the hardware and there aren't any errors. So, as far as the diagnostics in the Prom are concerned, the system has 32MB of memory and it tests OK. But, this is what I get under OpenVMS: $ show memory System Memory Resources on 6-JUN-2000 16:25:53.84 Physical Memory Usage (pages): Total Free In Use Modified Main Memory (16.00Mb) 32768 8459 22775 1534 Virtual I/O Cache Usage (pages): Total Free In Use Maximum Cache Memory 11 0 11 51649 Slot Usage (slots): Total Free Resident Swapped Process Entry Slots 48 25 21 2 Balance Set Slots 43 23 19 1 Dynamic Memory Usage (bytes): Total Free In Use Largest Nonpaged Dynamic Memory 1359360 103552 1255808 12480 Paged Dynamic Memory 717824 435488 282336 434448 Paging File Usage (pages): Free Reservable Total DISK$VAX4000SYS:[SYS0.SYSEXE]SWAPFILE.SYS 6240 6240 7200 DISK$VAX4000SYS:[SYS0.SYSEXE]PAGEFILE.SYS 55557 15536 65536 Of the physical pages in use, 10827 pages are permanently allocated to OpenVMS. So, what is happening here? Does anybody have some suggestions as to why OpenVMS doesn't see/want to use the remaining 16MB? Best regards,, Carlos. ________________________________________ Acceso r?pido a Internet con Epm.Net http://www.epm.net.co From rcini at msn.com Fri Jun 7 12:27:04 2002 From: rcini at msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:06 2005 Subject: MC6800 Datasheet Message-ID: Hello, all: Does anyone have a PDF copy of the Motorola 6800 chip datasheet? I downloaded a copy from somewhere yesterday and the strangest thing happens. When viewing the PDF, it shows on the screen as a positive image but when printing, it prints as a negative. Thanks. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1740 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020607/6aaddec4/winmail.bin From bdwheele at indiana.edu Fri Jun 7 13:08:35 2002 From: bdwheele at indiana.edu (brian wheeler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:06 2005 Subject: VMS doesn't recognize all physical memory? In-Reply-To: <3CFD381B00001B5C@lauta.epm.net.co> References: <3CFD381B00001B5C@lauta.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <1023473315.15816.14.camel@wombat> I think there's an entry from the VMS FAQ for this... 5.7 Why doesn t OpenVMS see the new memory I just added? When adding memory to an OpenVMS system, one should check for an existing definition of the PHYSICALPAGES (OpenVMS VAX) or PHYSICAL_MEMORY (OpenVMS Alpha) parameter in the SYS$SYSTEM:MODPARAMS.DAT parameter database, use a text editor to reset the value in the file to the new correct value as required, and then perform the following command: $ @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN GETDATA REBOOT FEEDBACK This AUTOGEN command will reset various system parameters based on recent system usage (FEEDBACK), and it will reset the value for the PHYSICALPAGES parameter to the new value. It will also reboot the OpenVMS system. PHYSICALPAGES and PHYSICAL_MEMORY can also be used to deliberately lower the amount of memory available for use by OpenVMS. This ability can be useful in a few specific circumstances, such as testing the behaviour of an application in a system environment with a particular (lower) amount of system memory available. PHYSICALPAGES and PHYSICAL_MEMORY can be set to -1 (on OpenVMS Alpha) or (better and simpler) the entry can be removed from the MODPARAMS.DAT file, to indicate that all available memory should be used. Hope this helps! Brian On Fri, 2002-06-07 at 12:41, carlos_murillo@epm.net.co wrote: > Hello everyone; > > > I have noticed that OpenVMS 7.2 doesn't seem to recognize all > of the physical memory in my vaxstation 4000/60; I am sure > that I have 32 MB (8MB mainboard + 6 x 4MB modules) and > in fact it is recognized by the prom: > > KR46-A V1.1-31E-V4.0 > 08-00-2B-2A-F8-AB > 32MB > ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| > > OK > > 85 RESTART SYS > >>> > > >>> show config > > KR46-A V1.1-31E-V4.0 > 08-00-2B-2A-F8-AB > 32MB > > DEVNBR DEVNAM INFO > ------ -------- ------------------------------- > 1 NVR OK > 2 LCG OK > HR - 8PLN FB - V1.1 > 3 DZ OK > 4 CACHE OK > 5 MEM OK > 32MB = SY=8MB, S0/1=8MB, S2/3=8MB, S4/5=8MB > 6 FPU OK > 7 IT OK > 8 SYS OK > 9 NI OK > 10 SCSI OK > 0-ST31200 5-TZ30 6-INITR 7-CD-ROM > 11 AUD OK > > >>> > > Similarly, the TEST 100 command tests all of the hardware and > there aren't any errors. So, as far as the diagnostics in the > Prom are concerned, the system has 32MB of memory and it tests OK. > > But, this is what I get under OpenVMS: > > $ show memory > System Memory Resources on 6-JUN-2000 16:25:53.84 > > Physical Memory Usage (pages): Total Free In Use Modified > Main Memory (16.00Mb) 32768 8459 22775 > 1534 > > Virtual I/O Cache Usage (pages): Total Free In Use Maximum > Cache Memory 11 0 11 51649 > > Slot Usage (slots): Total Free Resident Swapped > Process Entry Slots 48 25 21 > 2 > Balance Set Slots 43 23 19 > 1 > > Dynamic Memory Usage (bytes): Total Free In Use Largest > Nonpaged Dynamic Memory 1359360 103552 1255808 12480 > Paged Dynamic Memory 717824 435488 282336 434448 > > Paging File Usage (pages): Free Reservable Total > DISK$VAX4000SYS:[SYS0.SYSEXE]SWAPFILE.SYS > 6240 6240 > 7200 > DISK$VAX4000SYS:[SYS0.SYSEXE]PAGEFILE.SYS > 55557 15536 65536 > > Of the physical pages in use, 10827 pages are permanently allocated to > OpenVMS. > > > > So, what is happening here? Does anybody have some suggestions > as to why OpenVMS doesn't see/want to use the remaining 16MB? > > Best regards,, > > Carlos. > > > > ________________________________________ > Acceso r?pido a Internet con Epm.Net http://www.epm.net.co > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 7 13:03:35 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 In-Reply-To: <002201c20e2d$5ae3f040$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 7, 2 08:12:24 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 969 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020607/05e4cd21/attachment.ksh From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Fri Jun 7 13:10:43 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [OT] measuring DC wall wart References: Message-ID: <3D00F723.77DABFB6@Vishay.com> Chris, you say it's a DC output type? - This means it includes rectification and a filter capacitor? - Let's see: Under normal load conditions, the output voltage is around 0.6..0.7 times the peak voltage of the secondary AC voltage at the transformer, so you get Vp * 0.6 = 9V or Vp = 9V / 0.6 = 15V. With no load, the filter capacitor will charge up to this voltage because there is nothing that will discharge it, so this can be expected. You may want to try loading the adaptor with a small car bulb (about 12V/3..4W should be fine) and see to which value the measured output voltage will drop. Regards, Andreas Chris wrote: > > This is off topic, since the wall wart is only a few years old, but there > are some great electrical people here, so I am asking because I know > someone will know the answer. > > I have a wall wart to a modem. I got the modem and wart in a box of used > stuff (ooh, some of which was more than 10 years old, so at least there > is a reference to on-topicness). > > The modem failed to work from the day I got it. Today, someone that has > the same modem asked if I had a power supply they could have. I planned > to give them mine, since I have no real use for it. > > But before I mailed it to them, a voice went off in my head telling me to > stick it on a meter first. It's label says it is a 9vDC, 400mA Pos-tip > wart. But when I hook it up to a meter, I get 15v DC off it. > > That seems a little high, even for something under no load. Should I > safely assume the wart is no good, and point the person elsewhere (Rat > Shack sells a usuable unit for only about $14, so it isn't like the > person has no other choice). Or is it normal for a 9v supply to put out > 15 volts? Any that I have measured in the past have not been THAT far off > (I was expecting to maybe get 10 or 12 volts, but not 15). > > If this thing has been pumping too much voltage, that might explain the > dead modem I have (or the modem could have been used as a soccer ball, > who knows, it was dead when I got it). I just don't want to send the > person a bad supply, and have them fry their modem when they try to use > it. > > -chris > -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Fri Jun 7 13:15:34 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 References: <3.0.5.32.20020607115510.0080d8b0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3D00F846.A45C199B@Vishay.com> I have been told, but never tried myself that the 6809 acts as a 16-bit counter on the address lines when it finds two data bits shorted together. The 68000 was said by the same guy to "pull the pins out of the socket", i.e., make all outputs high-Z. Tom Uban wrote: > > I worked with a 6809 system back in the early 80s which > had an LED board to display the state of all of the system > signals. I don't recall the OP code, but there was one > which would continuously cycle the address, data, and > other signals until reset. It made the LEDs light up > like a christmas tree. -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 7 13:11:19 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [OT] measuring DC wall wart In-Reply-To: from "Chris" at Jun 7, 2 12:32:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1005 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020607/31dc172a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 7 13:20:34 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 In-Reply-To: <200206071633.JAA08931@clulw009.amd.com> from "Dwight K. Elvey" at Jun 7, 2 09:33:55 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1485 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020607/256daeb4/attachment.ksh From sipke at wxs.nl Fri Jun 7 13:34:51 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 References: Message-ID: <00ce01c20e52$03aef520$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Problem with the 6502 is that different versions from different manufacturers had different undocumented instructions. So for the general public this was not much of a boon .... The Z80 situation was much better Also the 65C02 (the special CMOS version) als was more reliable in this respect Sipke de Wal ----------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx ----------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 8:03 PM Subject: Re: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 > > Many processors (and other chips for > that matter) have undocumented > instructions used for factory testing. > > > -tony > From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu Jun 6 22:01:47 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:06 2005 Subject: Monitors for Vaxstation Message-ID: <006401c20dcf$aa0c0120$023ca8c0@blafleur> What kind of monitors can be used with the Vaxstation models (2000, 3100, etc)? I know there are different flavors of Vaxstation graphics - monochrome, "GPX", etc. Which is the easiest to deal with monitor-wise? Can an adapter be built to use a standard multi-syncable VGA monitor? Thanks for any info. - Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020606/9d4a61fe/attachment.html From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 7 13:38:24 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 References: <20020607145712.33983.qmail@web11805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001601c20e52$8d805460$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Loboyko Steve" To: Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 8:57 AM Subject: Re: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 > Well, it isn't beyond the realm of possibility that an > unimplemented op code or strange code could do > something bad to the states of a chip, potentially > overheating the i/o interfaces. > If you check the datasheets, I think you'll agree that's not very likely, so long as you don't violate the absolute maxima. > > For example, the PII/III...etc are designed to shut > down certain subsystems when they aren't used (the > floating point, part, for example). Certain software > can force the processor ro keep everything on and get > the chip to its maximum temperature, possibly causing > a machine with marginal construction or marginal > internal/external thermal management to fail. > The Pentium-class processors of today, and, in fact, any of today's designs, are so different from the old 6502 types, that it's not helpful to try to extrapolate backward from the one technology to the other. 6502-based systems were so simple and easy to design correctly, seldom requiring more than a day's effort to design, though the drafting could take longer, that it's unlikely any such concerns would arise. > > Also, I was thinking that some of these "smart cards" > might be designed to self-destruct upon execution of > an unimplemented opcode. Maybe a military processor in > a dangerous device might be designed this way also, so > that the computer would crash and immediately > self-destruct before doing something, shall we say, > "unexpected". > ... and what would they (smart-cards) have to do with the old 6502 or 6800? > > So, I don't think my question was THAT unreasonable. I > am working with 75/76 dated chips marked "XC", also, > so I probably DO have the first externally available > silicon or nearly so. > If you stop and think about it, there's nothing that one instruction stream will cause the chip to do that another wouldn't. If you allow yourself to assume worst-case conditions of loading on the address and data bus pins, among others, I don't think you'll have any trouble convincing yourself of that. The output transistors are, effectively, resistors, when they're turned on, so when the load increases, the voltage swing suffers accordingly. The maximum specifications will clearly show you that the power dissipation in a normally operating device will not cause enough dissipation to put out heat sufficient to ignite the PCB, and certainly not the package itself. The "XC" designation simply indicated that they were pre-production parts, and, actually, the 'C' refers to the package, IIRC, not that they were experimental or inadequately characterized. Some such parts were never relieved of the XC designation, particularly some of the monitor-equipped single-chippers. An example would be the XC 6801L1, which was a 6801L-1 with the LILBUG monitor in ROM, and the XC68HC705K1, though that didn't have a monitor program in it which was the windowed ceramic 16-pin part, however, and was never used in production due to its high cost ($45-$70 depending on quantity and source). There were instructions in the 6502 (note that I keep coming back to that one, since that's what the thread is about) that were "unimplemented" and could, if encountered in the course of an otherwise normal run, cause a running program to go astray, resulting in a "freeze-up" of the system. If you let a 6502 run long enough, it might get hot, too, if not provided with adquate air circulation. The same, of course, is true of any NMOS part, including the 680x series from MOT. Hot, BTW, has several sets of definitions, but, from a purely pragmatic standpoint, if you lick your finger and then touch the part, and it sizzles, it's warm, and perhaps out of spec. If you touch the part and it sizzles BEFORE you lick your finger, then it's HOT! They didn't make Mil-spec 6502's so that's definitely out of spec. Now, if it's hot enough to cause the solder to come loose, that's really, Really, REALLY hot. Lots of the parts would quit before they got that hot. If they quit, they'd cool off again. I've seen very few machines "halt and catch fire" without the aid of a hardware failure of some sort. One example was a Wang 2200 MVP which had an MOS memory board's clock driver short between the bipolar 12-volt rails, and quickly caught the PCB on fire, allowing flames and thick black smoke to emanate from the top of the open cabinet. It STANK! > > --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > > I don't see an HCF in the Mot listings of their > > instruction set. > > > > I've heard about this fiction over several decades > > now, and, surely, it must > > be clear to you that there's no way the > > microprocessor can cause that effect > > without the aid of external hardware. > > > > We used to joke about a BEO instruction (branch and > > execute operator) but I've never seen the effects of > > that one either. > > > > Dick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Loboyko Steve" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 11:34 PM > > Subject: Re: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 > > > > > > > I'm building a 6800 machine right now and I was > > > wondering about this "Halt and Catch on Fire" > > > instruction. Is this for real. This is a serious > > > question. Is there actually an instruction that > > will > > > overheat the chip? > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 7 13:37:15 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [OT] measuring DC wall wart In-Reply-To: <20020607173337.210.qmail@web11802.mail.yahoo.com> from "Loboyko Steve" at Jun 7, 2 10:33:37 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1844 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020607/86bcf34b/attachment.ksh From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 7 13:44:18 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 References: <002c01c20e2d$d7a7a2c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020607081822.02143dc0@postoffice.pacbell.net> Message-ID: <001f01c20e53$690b0700$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> HORSEFEATHERS! I've got one of the first few dozen 6800 parts that were ever allowed outside the plant, and it's not even marked XC. It's simply marked SAMPLE and is otherwise unmarked. However, based on when I got it, it has to be a very early part. I don't for a moment doubt that there were things that could have caused an internal failure. However, I do very much doubt that there was a specific, if undocumented, instruction that could bring such a failure about. If there is, then please tell us all about it. Then tell us how that would cause the device to catch fire, will you? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Battle" To: Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 9:21 AM Subject: RE: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 > At 11:00 AM 6/7/02 -0400, you wrote: > > Why don't you learn that you don't always know what you're > > talking about? > > > > Indeed, the first step level of the 6800 had an undocumented > > opcode that > >results in 3 particular transistors turning on that connected Vcc to GND. > >The damage caused by these three transistors shorting damaged the silicon in > >the immediate area, rendering the CPU useless. > > > The R2000 MIPS CPU's had a similar problem. The TLB was implemented via a > small CAM. If more than one entry matched the virtual address, there was a > fight between two different words attempting to drive the output > bitlines. This wouldn't be a problem other than the fact that the TLB > contents were managed by software. Granted, the code would be supervisor > code and not user code, but when developing the supervisor software, there > was always the danger that buggy software could damage the chip. > > I believe this was fixed in R3000 and later parts. > > > > ----- > Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net > > From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Jun 7 13:39:33 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:06 2005 Subject: TS-816 setup Message-ID: I'm having a bit of trouble geting my new 'shiny' Televideo TS-816 up and running. It hangs trying to IPL from the hard drive, and I can boot off a tape, which gets me diagnostics. The diagnostics look like this: ----------------------------------------------------------------- Self-testing in process. (TS-816/40 PROM V1.1) Hit "ESCAPE" Key to boot from Tape ? System IPL from Tape Drive in progress * TeleVideo Systems TS-816/40 Restore disk image from tape, V1.3 14 Megabyte on 1/4" tape cartridge Do you want to run disk diagnostic? ("Return" if NO, "Y" if YES) Y ** SELECT DIAGNOSTIC WINCHESTER HARD DISK ?? ** ----------------------------------------------- Type "I" to select Internal winchester hard disk Type "E" to select External winchester hard disk Type "A" to Abort the diagnostic mode I <--- Select the function above ** DIAGNOSTIC FUNCTIONS ** -------------------------- Type "R" to select Read-test Type "W" to select Write-test Type "F" to select Format disk Type "A" to reselect winchester hard disk <--- Select the function above ----------------------------------------------------------------- It would appear that it's having a problem using the internal hard drive. I don't have a spare sitting around to replace it with, and the cables look all securely fastened. Also, the drive seems to be spinning just fine, and I've cleared the two 'locks' on the bottom for it before trying to use it. Does anyone have suggestions for troubleshooing this problem? I'm knowledgable in electronics and can drag out my o'scope if I need to. Also, can I hook up a 5-1/4" MFM or RLL hard drive up to this thing? It's a TS-816/40 (I'm guessing 40MB drive), what should I look for (C/H/S) in a replacement drive? -- Pat From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 7 13:47:37 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 References: <3D00D1C1.DB998F9F@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <002401c20e53$d9ca8d80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> ... regarding that Pentium FDIV bug ... my understanding from the guys on the inside is that they knew about the bug for nearly a year before the buggy parts were released. The management made the decision that since many of their customers didn't need the FDIV instruction, they could sucessfully build hardware around it with no ill effects. The home PC market, after all, was then still an insignificant part of their market. They knew well in advance that they'd be replacing the "buggy" parts, but had to start getting some of their NRE back in order to avoid the IRE of top management. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Franchuk" To: Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 > "J.C. Wren" wrote: > > > > Why don't you learn that you don't always know what you're talking about? > > > > Indeed, the first step level of the 6800 had an undocumented opcode that > > results in 3 particular transistors turning on that connected Vcc to GND. > > The damage caused by these three transistors shorting damaged the silicon in > > the immediate area, rendering the CPU useless. > > > > But since the shop I worked for only flamed out 2 Sphere-II 6800 CPUs > > before the Motorola FAE defined the problem and gave us new parts, it > > probably didn't really happen, since you said it's fiction. > > Since this was a early and rare version of the 6800 and most of my > information > is second hand stuff (general computer books vs data sheets ) > information > like this is useful trivia. Even modern chips can have hard to find > bugs, > like the pentium division bug. > > > -- > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 7 13:53:34 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [OT] measuring DC wall wart References: Message-ID: <003201c20e54$b77f2500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It's quite on-topic. I'm looking at a wall-wart that I got with my answering machine back in '79. I use a 9V wall-wart to provide input to a +15 volt supply, which is the output of a regulator in the load, so it clearly pushes out a higher voltage than what it says. It's well to keep in mind that the label suggests (but doesn't guarantee) that the output is of a given voltage at a given current. That may, in fact, be true, but I wouldn't bet on it. The majority of these devices work in the +/- 10% realm, so I wouldn't expect close line or load regulation. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" To: "Classic Computer" Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 10:32 AM Subject: [OT] measuring DC wall wart > This is off topic, since the wall wart is only a few years old, but there > are some great electrical people here, so I am asking because I know > someone will know the answer. > > I have a wall wart to a modem. I got the modem and wart in a box of used > stuff (ooh, some of which was more than 10 years old, so at least there > is a reference to on-topicness). > > The modem failed to work from the day I got it. Today, someone that has > the same modem asked if I had a power supply they could have. I planned > to give them mine, since I have no real use for it. > > But before I mailed it to them, a voice went off in my head telling me to > stick it on a meter first. It's label says it is a 9vDC, 400mA Pos-tip > wart. But when I hook it up to a meter, I get 15v DC off it. > > That seems a little high, even for something under no load. Should I > safely assume the wart is no good, and point the person elsewhere (Rat > Shack sells a usuable unit for only about $14, so it isn't like the > person has no other choice). Or is it normal for a 9v supply to put out > 15 volts? Any that I have measured in the past have not been THAT far off > (I was expecting to maybe get 10 or 12 volts, but not 15). > > If this thing has been pumping too much voltage, that might explain the > dead modem I have (or the modem could have been used as a soccer ball, > who knows, it was dead when I got it). I just don't want to send the > person a bad supply, and have them fry their modem when they try to use > it. > > -chris > > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 7 13:55:33 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [OT] measuring DC wall wart References: <20020607173337.210.qmail@web11802.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003601c20e54$e7a6b860$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> If you want to measure the voltage at the rated current, you have to provide a current sink that's set up for that current. That's easily done with an isolated negative supply and a current mirror. If you really want to do this, contact me off-list and I'll provide detailed specifications. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Loboyko Steve" To: Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [OT] measuring DC wall wart > Been my experience that a wall wart under no load (or > any transformer under no load for that matter) will go > a LOT higher than its 'rating'. I'd put, like, a 500 > ohm resistor across it (if it's less than 1/2 watt, > might get "a little warm"!!) and measure it again. BTW > a surprising amount of equipment has negative tip. If > you aren't sure about the equipment I'd take a meter > and look for ~0 ohm from a ground to the "ring" of the > power connector. Badly made equipment didn't have ANY > protection from reverse polarity. > > I like the RS adapers; just about the most > useful+reasonably-priced thing in the darned store. > > > > --- Chris wrote: > > This is off topic, since the wall wart is only a few > > years old, but there > > are some great electrical people here, so I am > > asking because I know > > someone will know the answer. > > > > I have a wall wart to a modem. I got the modem and > > wart in a box of used > > stuff (ooh, some of which was more than 10 years > > old, so at least there > > is a reference to on-topicness). > > > > The modem failed to work from the day I got it. > > Today, someone that has > > the same modem asked if I had a power supply they > > could have. I planned > > to give them mine, since I have no real use for it. > > > > But before I mailed it to them, a voice went off in > > my head telling me to > > stick it on a meter first. It's label says it is a > > 9vDC, 400mA Pos-tip > > wart. But when I hook it up to a meter, I get 15v DC > > off it. > > > > That seems a little high, even for something under > > no load. Should I > > safely assume the wart is no good, and point the > > person elsewhere (Rat > > Shack sells a usuable unit for only about $14, so it > > isn't like the > > person has no other choice). Or is it normal for a > > 9v supply to put out > > 15 volts? Any that I have measured in the past have > > not been THAT far off > > (I was expecting to maybe get 10 or 12 volts, but > > not 15). > > > > If this thing has been pumping too much voltage, > > that might explain the > > dead modem I have (or the modem could have been used > > as a soccer ball, > > who knows, it was dead when I got it). I just don't > > want to send the > > person a bad supply, and have them fry their modem > > when they try to use > > it. > > > > -chris > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com > From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Jun 7 13:56:38 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 In-Reply-To: <001f01c20e53$690b0700$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: You're actually taking the "catch fire" *literally*? Silicon doesn't burn *that* well. Well, except for an Athlon (and if you haven't seen the smoking Athlon video on www.tomshardware.com, I recommend checking it out. It's entertaining). However, much like 3 voltage EPROM socketted backwards, the 6800 would get boiling hot for short time before it failed. It wasn't like there was actual flames jetting out of the thing. That'd be silly. I have a record of it somewhere, I'm sure. Accessibility is another thing. Living on a houseboat, 90% of my stuff is in boxes in a warehouse. Since I've been inclined to try and fire up the IMSAI lately, I'll try to find the notes from the period. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 14:44 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 HORSEFEATHERS! I've got one of the first few dozen 6800 parts that were ever allowed outside the plant, and it's not even marked XC. It's simply marked SAMPLE and is otherwise unmarked. However, based on when I got it, it has to be a very early part. I don't for a moment doubt that there were things that could have caused an internal failure. However, I do very much doubt that there was a specific, if undocumented, instruction that could bring such a failure about. If there is, then please tell us all about it. Then tell us how that would cause the device to catch fire, will you? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Battle" To: Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 9:21 AM Subject: RE: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 > At 11:00 AM 6/7/02 -0400, you wrote: > > Why don't you learn that you don't always know what you're > > talking about? > > > > Indeed, the first step level of the 6800 had an undocumented > > opcode that > >results in 3 particular transistors turning on that connected Vcc to GND. > >The damage caused by these three transistors shorting damaged the silicon in > >the immediate area, rendering the CPU useless. > > > The R2000 MIPS CPU's had a similar problem. The TLB was implemented via a > small CAM. If more than one entry matched the virtual address, there was a > fight between two different words attempting to drive the output > bitlines. This wouldn't be a problem other than the fact that the TLB > contents were managed by software. Granted, the code would be supervisor > code and not user code, but when developing the supervisor software, there > was always the danger that buggy software could damage the chip. > > I believe this was fixed in R3000 and later parts. > > > > ----- > Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 7 14:01:03 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 References: Message-ID: <005401c20e55$bfca2420$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> You can get them running plenty hot by simply wiring a DIP switch to the address bus with NOP encoded into it using the R/W line as the low to which the bus is switched. Each time it reads the bus, that's what it will see. It will require pullups on the order of 4.7K to provide the high level. That's one way of determining how fast a particular chip can be run, though you have to try it with a wide range of instructions. With the 6800, of course, you have to run the clock generator with it as well, however, and that may not work as fast as the CPU before it goes out of specified limits. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 > > > > I don't see an HCF in the Mot listings of their instruction set. > > > > Many processors (and other chips for that matter) have undocumented > instructions used for factory testing. > > > I've heard about this fiction over several decades now, and, surely, it must > > be clear to you that there's no way the microprocessor can cause that effect > > without the aid of external hardware. > > It's not clear to me. What I am thinking of is the following : > > The test instruction puts the processor into a mode where one of the > external lines toggles at the clock frequency, whereas normally it only > toggles at (say) 1/4 of the clock frequency (at most). This signal is > driving a bus line that has considerable capacitance to ground. At the > higher freqeucny, the drive buffer passes a higher current (to > charge/discharge that bus capacitance) and overheats. > > I doubt you could get the chip to catch fire, but I think it would be > possible to get the chip to run hot. > > -tony > > From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 7 14:03:48 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 In-Reply-To: <00ce01c20e52$03aef520$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Jun 2002, Sipke de Wal wrote: > Problem with the 6502 is that different versions > from different manufacturers had different > undocumented instructions. So for the general > public this was not much of a boon .... True. > The Z80 situation was much better > > Also the 65C02 (the special CMOS version) > als was more reliable in this respect The 65C02 actually has additional instructions which invalidate former "undocumented" instructions on the 6502. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 7 14:05:09 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 References: <00ce01c20e52$03aef520$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: <006401c20e56$4afd8460$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> You may be confused about this. I don't know of a single NMOS 6502 that didn't adhere to the MOS-technology instruction set. There's no telling whether that included the undocumented opcodes, but since Synertek and Rockwell used the MOS mask set, I suspect there was no difference. The later Synertek parts may have been different since they shrank the die and got a bit more speed, offering a 4 MHz 6502-C, which was an NMOS part and worked perfectly in NMOS-targeted systems that didn't work with the later CMOS parts. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sipke de Wal" To: Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 > Problem with the 6502 is that different versions > from different manufacturers had different > undocumented instructions. So for the general > public this was not much of a boon .... > > The Z80 situation was much better > > Also the 65C02 (the special CMOS version) > als was more reliable in this respect > > Sipke de Wal > ----------------------------------------- > http://xgistor.ath.cx > ----------------------------------------- > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tony Duell" > To: > Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 8:03 PM > Subject: Re: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 > > > > > > > Many processors (and other chips for > > that matter) have undocumented > > instructions used for factory testing. > > > > > > -tony > > > From mythtech at mac.com Fri Jun 7 14:09:14 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: [OT] measuring DC wall wart Message-ID: >Since the output connector is one of those cross-shaped plugs (with a >2.5mm jack plug, 3.5mm jack plug, 2.1mm coax power connector and 2.5mm >coax power connector) along with a separate 1.3mm coax power connector >(used for personal stereos I am told) and a 9V-like battery clip, it's >very easy to get accidental short circuits just by having the separate >connectors touch each other. Therefore IMHO the PSU has to be safe under >short-circuit conditions. They are not. > >And the plastic cases are very brittle and canf break, exposing live >parts. Unplugging one that's been accidentally kicked, for example, is >not easy. Not saying the ones in the US are safe or good, but they are not like the one you describe. They are a white plastic, rather "soft and durable" material. You can smack then and kick them and step on them, and they stay in one peice. Also, they don't sell that cross tipped one like you describe any more (at least I haven't seen one in a long long time). Rather, all of them end in a jack, and they include one tip of your choice (for most, some include multiple tips). So you pick the connector style you need, and then that plugs into the jack on the cord. It is marked on the cord with "TIP" and the connector has a "+" on it, so you can align it for either positive or negative tip. Fairly decent setup, and so far, all their newer style white ones (they have been selling them for a few years now), have held up well, at least for me. As to short circuits and how safe they are... I can't really say. I've never opened one, and I can't think of a time that I have done anything other than accidentally set a multi-voltage one to the wrong voltage and watched my device get toasted (leaving the power wart just fine of course). -chris From mythtech at mac.com Fri Jun 7 14:13:25 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: [OT] measuring DC wall wart Message-ID: >It does sound a _little_ high, but it might be OK. Try loading it (A 100 >Ohm wirewound resistor would do, for example). See if that brings the >voltage down to nearer 9V. I tried a 100k Ohm since I didn't have a 100 Ohm, no effect. I don't have a bulb or anything handy to try with that. I think I am going to dig out the modem it goes to, and test the voltage with it hooked to that. That will at least give it real use load (the modem powers up just fine, it just fails to respond to all AT commands except for getting the firmware, and it won't attempt to go off hook or dial... I'm not 100% convinced the modem is really "dead" so much as it just doesn't want to co-operate). Thanks to all those that responded... I knew I could get some good answers here. -chris From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 7 14:18:35 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 References: Message-ID: <008e01c20e58$2ab4d440$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.C. Wren" To: Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 12:56 PM Subject: RE: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 > You're actually taking the "catch fire" *literally*? Silicon doesn't burn > *that* well. Well, except for an Athlon (and if you haven't seen the > smoking Athlon video on www.tomshardware.com, I recommend checking it out. > It's entertaining). However, much like 3 voltage EPROM socketted backwards, > the 6800 would get boiling hot for short time before it failed. > What normally catches fire is the PCB. However, lots of parts got plenty hot in normal usage. Many wouldn't run on an extender board because of the added capacitance and path lengths, but, often enough, it was because, out of the normal cardcage forced-air cooling, the parts got so hot they no longer worked within the limts to which the system was designed. > Many NMOS parts would get pretty hot, particularly if you considered simply hot-to-the-touch as being hot. The 2147's in my early fast 6502's were seldom cool enough to touch without making a sound, both vocally and from the sizzle, once they'd been powered up for more than 10 minutes and exercised. We even had a routine in the memory diagnostic that was intended to heat the memories. It certainly did that. There were four boards of these 2147's and you could tell which one was being exercised simply by holding a finger over the board. 70 degrees Celsius (the upper limit of "industrial" temperature range) is pretty hot! > > It wasn't like there was actual flames jetting out of the thing. That'd be > silly. > > I have a record of it somewhere, I'm sure. Accessibility is another thing. > Living on a houseboat, 90% of my stuff is in boxes in a warehouse. Since > I've been inclined to try and fire up the IMSAI lately, I'll try to find the > notes from the period. > > --John > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Richard Erlacher > Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 14:44 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 > > > HORSEFEATHERS! > > I've got one of the first few dozen 6800 parts that were ever allowed > outside > the plant, and it's not even marked XC. It's simply marked SAMPLE and is > otherwise unmarked. However, based on when I got it, it has to be a very > early part. > > I don't for a moment doubt that there were things that could have caused an > internal failure. However, I do very much doubt that there was a specific, > if > undocumented, instruction that could bring such a failure about. If there > is, > then please tell us all about it. Then tell us how that would cause the > device to catch fire, will you? > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Battle" > To: > Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 9:21 AM > Subject: RE: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 > > > > At 11:00 AM 6/7/02 -0400, you wrote: > > > Why don't you learn that you don't always know what you're > > > talking about? > > > > > > Indeed, the first step level of the 6800 had an undocumented > > > opcode that > > >results in 3 particular transistors turning on that connected Vcc to GND. > > >The damage caused by these three transistors shorting damaged the silicon > in > > >the immediate area, rendering the CPU useless. > > > > > > The R2000 MIPS CPU's had a similar problem. The TLB was implemented via a > > small CAM. If more than one entry matched the virtual address, there was > a > > fight between two different words attempting to drive the output > > bitlines. This wouldn't be a problem other than the fact that the TLB > > contents were managed by software. Granted, the code would be supervisor > > code and not user code, but when developing the supervisor software, there > > was always the danger that buggy software could damage the chip. > > > > I believe this was fixed in R3000 and later parts. > > > > > > > > ----- > > Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net > > > > > > > > From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Jun 7 14:15:35 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020607141121.03378da0@pc> Again and again, whenever enough time passes for me to forget how utterly incompetent these people are, and then I place an order for something - or should I say try to place an order for something - those neurons are refreshed with a new memory of exactly how much they *always* screw it up, and they try again to refresh the other neurons that tell me to never, ever expect anything but idiocy from that place, and that it's only useful if I can push them aside, get what I want, and get out without giving them the chance to screw it up. I needed to vent. Thank you. - John From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Fri Jun 7 14:38:08 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020607141121.03378da0@pc> Message-ID: <001101c20e5a$da3ef600$023ca8c0@blafleur> I've decided that Radio Shack has one reason for existance; to sell pre-paid cell-phones to low-lifes. Every time I go in there, all the sales people are occupied with selling a pre-paid cell-phone to someone who has such bad credit that they can't get a regular cell-phone. Then when they finally get to me, I ask them for an adapter, or cable, or something and they look at me like I'm crazy. "I've never heard of such a thing" they say. If it's not a pre-paid cell-phone, they have no clue. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of John Foust Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 3:16 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: I hate Radio Shack Again and again, whenever enough time passes for me to forget how utterly incompetent these people are, and then I place an order for something - or should I say try to place an order for something - those neurons are refreshed with a new memory of exactly how much they *always* screw it up, and they try again to refresh the other neurons that tell me to never, ever expect anything but idiocy from that place, and that it's only useful if I can push them aside, get what I want, and get out without giving them the chance to screw it up. I needed to vent. Thank you. - John From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Jun 7 14:53:48 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <001101c20e5a$da3ef600$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: Radio Shack: "You have questions, we have blank stares." --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bob Lafleur Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 15:38 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: I hate Radio Shack I've decided that Radio Shack has one reason for existance; to sell pre-paid cell-phones to low-lifes. Every time I go in there, all the sales people are occupied with selling a pre-paid cell-phone to someone who has such bad credit that they can't get a regular cell-phone. Then when they finally get to me, I ask them for an adapter, or cable, or something and they look at me like I'm crazy. "I've never heard of such a thing" they say. If it's not a pre-paid cell-phone, they have no clue. From curt at atari-history.com Fri Jun 7 15:01:50 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack References: <001101c20e5a$da3ef600$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <00b101c20e5e$29efeee0$01000001@cvendel> I thought it was MSN memberships ;-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Lafleur" To: Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 3:38 PM Subject: RE: I hate Radio Shack > I've decided that Radio Shack has one reason for existance; to sell > pre-paid cell-phones to low-lifes. Every time I go in there, all the > sales people are occupied with selling a pre-paid cell-phone to someone > who has such bad credit that they can't get a regular cell-phone. Then > when they finally get to me, I ask them for an adapter, or cable, or > something and they look at me like I'm crazy. "I've never heard of such > a thing" they say. If it's not a pre-paid cell-phone, they have no clue. > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of John Foust > Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 3:16 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: I hate Radio Shack > > > > Again and again, whenever enough time passes for me to > forget how utterly incompetent these people are, and then > I place an order for something - or should I say try to > place an order for something - those neurons are refreshed > with a new memory of exactly how much they *always* screw it up, and > they try again to refresh the other neurons that > tell me to never, ever expect anything but idiocy from > that place, and that it's only useful if I can push them > aside, get what I want, and get out without giving them > the chance to screw it up. I needed to vent. Thank you. > > - John > > From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Jun 7 15:05:46 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020607141121.03378da0@pc> Message-ID: > > Again and again, whenever enough time passes for me to > forget how utterly incompetent these people are, and then "You have questions, we have dumb looks!" g. From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Jun 7 15:11:44 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <001101c20e5a$da3ef600$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: > something and they look at me like I'm crazy. "I've never heard of such > a thing" they say. If it's not a pre-paid cell-phone, they have no clue. I actually got into an argument with a local Radio Shack weenie over a DB-15 hood. Little snot had the gall to tell me that if it wasn't in their catalog, it didn't exist and I MUST be confused. I told him he needed to return to McDonald's where his limited cognitive skills would be more fully appriciated. Fsckwit. *sigh* g. From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Jun 7 15:12:18 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Damnit John, you beat me to it. :) g. On Fri, 7 Jun 2002, J.C. Wren wrote: > Radio Shack: "You have questions, we have blank stares." > > --John > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Bob Lafleur > Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 15:38 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: I hate Radio Shack > > > I've decided that Radio Shack has one reason for existance; to sell > pre-paid cell-phones to low-lifes. Every time I go in there, all the > sales people are occupied with selling a pre-paid cell-phone to someone > who has such bad credit that they can't get a regular cell-phone. Then > when they finally get to me, I ask them for an adapter, or cable, or > something and they look at me like I'm crazy. "I've never heard of such > a thing" they say. If it's not a pre-paid cell-phone, they have no clue. > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jun 7 16:08:07 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020607141121.03378da0@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020607160807.558fa76a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:15 PM 6/7/02 -0500, John wrote: > >Again and again, whenever enough time passes for me to >forget how utterly incompetent these people are, and then >I place an order for something - or should I say try to >place an order for something - those neurons are refreshed >with a new memory of exactly how much they *always* screw it up, >and they try again to refresh the other neurons that >tell me to never, ever expect anything but idiocy from >that place, and that it's only useful if I can push them >aside, get what I want, and get out without giving them >the chance to screw it up. I needed to vent. Thank you. > >- John > > You're not alone. I feel the same way about them! Joe From bdwheele at indiana.edu Fri Jun 7 15:12:08 2002 From: bdwheele at indiana.edu (brian wheeler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1023480728.15817.21.camel@wombat> On Fri, 2002-06-07 at 14:53, J.C. Wren wrote: > Radio Shack: "You have questions, we have blank stares." Damn, I thought I was the only one who used that phrase when those commercials would come on. :) Alternately, one could use "You have questions, let me get the manager", which is behavior which seemed common for RS people when I was in high school. We'd make a game of it...ask really pointed computer questions and see either what kind of lies they'd make up, or see how long it took for them to get the manager... Brian > > --John > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > Behalf Of Bob Lafleur > Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 15:38 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: I hate Radio Shack > > > I've decided that Radio Shack has one reason for existance; to sell > pre-paid cell-phones to low-lifes. Every time I go in there, all the > sales people are occupied with selling a pre-paid cell-phone to someone > who has such bad credit that they can't get a regular cell-phone. Then > when they finally get to me, I ask them for an adapter, or cable, or > something and they look at me like I'm crazy. "I've never heard of such > a thing" they say. If it's not a pre-paid cell-phone, they have no clue. > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jun 7 15:32:36 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <1023480728.15817.21.camel@wombat> from brian wheeler at "Jun 7, 2 03:12:08 pm" Message-ID: <200206072032.NAA11906@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Alternately, one could use "You have questions, let me get the manager", > which is behavior which seemed common for RS people when I was in high > school. We'd make a game of it...ask really pointed computer questions > and see either what kind of lies they'd make up, or see how long it took > for them to get the manager... Best blank stare from a salesdroid was obtained by a friend of mine at a CompUSA, who (legimately, he wasn't trying to be difficult) walked in and asked for a DE-15 breakout kit to make up a serial cable. The salesdroid sank deep in thought and his brow furrowed deeply for a good fifteen seconds, during which a junior saleslarva came up, which he waved off with a finger, and continued to pontificate for another thirty seconds longer, after which he came to a sudden internal conclusion, looked up, and said, "No." -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I can't type any long sentiments in this .sig file because it's not wide enou From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jun 7 15:43:02 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 In-Reply-To: <00ce01c20e52$03aef520$030101ac@boll.casema.net> from Sipke de Wal at "Jun 7, 2 08:34:51 pm" Message-ID: <200206072043.NAA12030@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Problem with the 6502 is that different versions > from different manufacturers had different > undocumented instructions. So for the general > public this was not much of a boon .... On the Commodore 8-bits, since Commodore made all the 6502 derivatives they used in their systems, the undocumented opcodes are considerably more reliable and even appeared in some commercial titles as parts of heavily protected loader routines. For that matter, every Commodore 8-bit system except the 65 is NMOS (some are "HMOS" which is just Commodore's later NMOS manufacturing process designation), so every Commodore 8-bit supports them (again, except the 65, which is based on the 4510-cum-65CE02). This is now backfiring as the SuperCPU is CMOS (not to mention a 65816 in any case), and these titles inevitably crash on SCPU-equipped Commodore 64s and 128s. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Now and then innocent people are sent to the legislature. ------------------ From curt at atari-history.com Fri Jun 7 16:01:45 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack References: Message-ID: <001801c20e66$888cff30$01000001@cvendel> Oh I know what you're saying.... all I needed with a 7404, a lowsy 7404 which next to hygrogen atoms is the most abundant thing on the planet.... Direct Quote from Radio Shack Employee: "Uhhh errr.... a chip? Whaddya mean? A clip??? Errr uhhhh, chip... must be a custom order thing, you can call the number in the catalog.... uuuuuhhhh ummmm errrrr" Radio Shack my ass! DirecTV/MSN/Cellphone Sh*t Shack is more like it. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Buckle" To: Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 4:11 PM Subject: RE: I hate Radio Shack > > something and they look at me like I'm crazy. "I've never heard of such > > a thing" they say. If it's not a pre-paid cell-phone, they have no clue. > > I actually got into an argument with a local Radio Shack weenie over a > DB-15 hood. Little snot had the gall to tell me that if it wasn't in > their catalog, it didn't exist and I MUST be confused. I told him he > needed to return to McDonald's where his limited cognitive skills would be > more fully appriciated. Fsckwit. *sigh* > > g. > > From red at bears.org Fri Jun 7 16:10:15 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: [OT] measuring DC wall wart In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Jun 2002, Chris wrote: > I think I am going to dig out the modem it goes to, and test the voltage > with it hooked to that. That will at least give it real use load (the > modem powers up just fine, it just fails to respond to all AT commands > except for getting the firmware, and it won't attempt to go off hook or > dial... I'm not 100% convinced the modem is really "dead" so much as it > just doesn't want to co-operate). Hey, you know what? I missed the beginning of this thread, but this is exactly the sort of behavior you get from a modem which requires a 9V AC power supply, when you run it with a 9V _DC_ supply. ok r. From allain at panix.com Fri Jun 7 16:11:01 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack References: <5.0.0.25.0.20020607141121.03378da0@pc> Message-ID: <002f01c20e67$d438ae60$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> I don't hate 'em. I have knowledgeable expectations given the need of the stores to reach least-common-denominator Americans, and the probable salaries of the workers. I have had problems, but I don't think they earn much, so I cut 'em slack. (written on basis of reading the subject line alone). John A. From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jun 7 16:22:21 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <001801c20e66$888cff30$01000001@cvendel> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Jun 2002, Curt Vendel wrote: > Oh I know what you're saying.... all I needed with a 7404, a lowsy > 7404 which next to hygrogen atoms is the most abundant thing on the > planet.... > > Direct Quote from Radio Shack Employee: > "Uhhh errr.... a chip? Whaddya mean? A clip??? Errr uhhhh, chip... > must be a custom order thing, you can call the number in the catalog.... > uuuuuhhhh ummmm errrrr" They actually discontinued the 7404 not all that long ago. I bought up several dozen of them for $0.05ea at the Houston outlet store before they closed it. I just wish I'd bought up all the TRS80 parts and supplies... -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jun 7 16:31:51 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: [OT] measuring DC wall wart In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Jun 2002, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > On Fri, 7 Jun 2002, Chris wrote: > > > I think I am going to dig out the modem it goes to, and test the voltage > > with it hooked to that. That will at least give it real use load (the > > modem powers up just fine, it just fails to respond to all AT commands > > except for getting the firmware, and it won't attempt to go off hook or > > dial... I'm not 100% convinced the modem is really "dead" so much as it > > just doesn't want to co-operate). > > Hey, you know what? I missed the beginning of this thread, but this is > exactly the sort of behavior you get from a modem which requires a 9V > AC power supply, when you run it with a 9V _DC_ supply. I can certainly agree with that. I've seen it happen several times. Most all the modems I have around here use 9V AC wall-warts too. Some use DC or exotic voltages, but 9V AC seems to be the norm. -Toth From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Jun 7 16:27:27 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: [OT] measuring DC wall wart In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Most of the Hayes modem platforms required AC because the negative voltage for the RS-232 was generated from it, along with the negative voltage rail for some op-amps. In the case of a Hayes modem, it shouldn't have affected basic off-hook and command functions, but audio would be pretty bad, DTMF synthesis may or may not work, and RS-232 would be out of spec (but probably workable, since most RS-232 will work at GND and +5) --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of r. 'bear' stricklin Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 17:10 To: Classic Computer Subject: Re: [OT] measuring DC wall wart On Fri, 7 Jun 2002, Chris wrote: > I think I am going to dig out the modem it goes to, and test the voltage > with it hooked to that. That will at least give it real use load (the > modem powers up just fine, it just fails to respond to all AT commands > except for getting the firmware, and it won't attempt to go off hook or > dial... I'm not 100% convinced the modem is really "dead" so much as it > just doesn't want to co-operate). Hey, you know what? I missed the beginning of this thread, but this is exactly the sort of behavior you get from a modem which requires a 9V AC power supply, when you run it with a 9V _DC_ supply. ok r. From univac2 at earthlink.net Fri Jun 7 16:32:47 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020607141121.03378da0@pc> Message-ID: I had an experience where a RadioShack employee didn't know what a null-modem adapter was. And several experience where in the middle of describing what I'm looking for, I look at the salesman's face, and realize that he has no clue what I'm talking about. So I guess when you walk into a RadioShack store, and someone asks if they can help you, and you tell them no, you're being quite literal - They *can't* help you. -- Owen Robertson on 6/7/02 2:15 PM, John Foust at jfoust@threedee.com wrote: > > Again and again, whenever enough time passes for me to > forget how utterly incompetent these people are, and then > I place an order for something - or should I say try to > place an order for something - those neurons are refreshed > with a new memory of exactly how much they *always* screw it up, > and they try again to refresh the other neurons that > tell me to never, ever expect anything but idiocy from > that place, and that it's only useful if I can push them > aside, get what I want, and get out without giving them > the chance to screw it up. I needed to vent. Thank you. From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Jun 7 16:43:38 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: Wanted: Original Novell 68000 System Message-ID: Well the copy of the OS that I have is an OEM copy of Netware 1.1, so that would be why I said 1.1, I try to avoid sticking the proverbial foot in the mouth when possible ;p Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From chd_1 at nktelco.net Fri Jun 7 16:58:51 2002 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Chuck Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack References: <5.0.0.25.0.20020607141121.03378da0@pc> <002f01c20e67$d438ae60$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3D012C9B.760AA98E@nktelco.net> John Allain wrote: > I don't hate 'em. > ...... > I have had problems, but I don't think they earn much, so I cut 'em slack. I agree. My frustration is that they don't seem to recognize thier limitations. So many times I encounter people at RS, CompUSA, Homedepot, etc. that seem clueless but refuse to accept that a customer might know more about a subject than they know. When I encounter someone that clearly knows more than me, I listen and try to learn. Sadly, these people argue that what they do not understand or know must be wrong. > John A. -chuck From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Fri Jun 7 17:00:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 Message-ID: <200206072200.PAA09226@clulw009.amd.com> >From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk > >> >Not on the 6800 but I believe some FORTH chips have that problem. > >Incidentally, some Xilinx FPGAs will spectacularly overheat if fed bogus >configuration data. You can get 2 internal buffers driving the same line >in oposite directions. The CAD software is supposed to never generate >such a configuration file, of course, but if there's a bug in the >software, or the data is corrupted on download to the chip, it can >happen. Don't ask how I found that out. > > >> Instructions that would continuously increment the address >> are vary useful for debugging address decoding problems. > >True... > >> On an 8080, about the only useful sequence is to have >> a pop and jmp, using 4 locations. > >What's wrong with forcing a NOP (00) onto the databus. That should make Hi This does require that you have full control of the bus. I have used the 00H as well as the 0FFH. When you have a partially working bus, running code is prefered because simply pulling the ROM may not always work Some broken device may inject and instruction and break the loop. It is good to have all three methods of running addresses in your tool box. It is too bad that the simple 00 and 0FFH codes don't work for all processors, like the 8080's. Dwight >the PC increment from 0 to 0xFF. Or force RST38 (0xFF) onto the databus. >That will cause repeated fetches from location 0x38 with memory writes of >39 00 to every 16 bit word of memory in decreasing address order -- it's >pushing the return address (0x38+1 onto the stack, of course). Both >instructions are easy to force and have very recognisable effects on the >bus lines. > >One of the tests for the TRS80 Model 1 (Z80 based) is to pull the ROMs. >The databus is pulled high, so the CPU should execute RST38s. It writes >the return address to the video memory (as well as user RAM, of course), >giving a display of alternate '9's (0x39) and '@'s (0x00 -- the TRS-80 >video display circuit ignores bit 6 IIRC). > >-tony > > From dave at naffnet.org.uk Fri Jun 7 17:06:17 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack References: Message-ID: <3D012E58.1DA23C50@naffnet.org.uk> Owen Robertson wrote: > I had an experience where a RadioShack employee didn't know what a > null-modem adapter was. And several experience where in the middle of > describing what I'm looking for, I look at the salesman's face, and realize > that he has no clue what I'm talking about. So I guess when you walk into a > RadioShack store, and someone asks if they can help you, and you tell them > no, you're being quite literal - They *can't* help you. Here in the UK we called them Tandy:- notice the tense used, for Tandy went bust - even though here you could have been legitimately offered 'chips with that...' Dave. From CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL Fri Jun 7 16:00:48 2002 From: CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL (Corda Albert J DLVA) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack Message-ID: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16CF7@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> What annoys me is when they give horribly incorrect advice. I stopped by a local radio shack earlier this week to price out some RG6/U for a new DirecTV dish that I was cobbling together. I needed about ~350 feet of cable. The sales droid insisted that I'd needed to buy three in-line amps, and install them all at the dish ... (I guess he knew enough rudimentary english to read the amp packaging, and extrapolate) What bothered me the most, though, was the authoritative manner in which he described what I had to do. It took quite an effort to keep from laughing in his face... BTW, I bought the coax somewhere else, just on principles... -al- -acorda@1bigred.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Gene Buckle [mailto:geneb@deltasoft.com] > Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 4:12 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: I hate Radio Shack > > > Damnit John, you beat me to it. :) > > g. > > > On Fri, 7 Jun 2002, J.C. Wren wrote: > > > Radio Shack: "You have questions, we have blank stares." > > > > --John > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On > > Behalf Of Bob Lafleur > > Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 15:38 > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: RE: I hate Radio Shack > > > > > > I've decided that Radio Shack has one reason for existance; to sell > > pre-paid cell-phones to low-lifes. Every time I go in there, all the > > sales people are occupied with selling a pre-paid > cell-phone to someone > > who has such bad credit that they can't get a regular > cell-phone. Then > > when they finally get to me, I ask them for an adapter, or cable, or > > something and they look at me like I'm crazy. "I've never > heard of such > > a thing" they say. If it's not a pre-paid cell-phone, they > have no clue. > > > > > > > From chd_1 at nktelco.net Fri Jun 7 17:11:09 2002 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Chuck Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack References: <200206072032.NAA11906@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3D012F7D.7742E9F@nktelco.net> Cameron Kaiser wrote: > Best blank stare from a salesdroid was obtained by a friend of mine at a > CompUSA, who (legimately, he wasn't trying to be difficult) walked in and > asked for a DE-15 breakout kit to make up a serial cable. The salesdroid > sank deep in thought and his brow furrowed deeply for a good fifteen seconds, > during which a junior saleslarva came up, which he waved off with a finger, > and continued to pontificate for another thirty seconds longer, after which > he came to a sudden internal conclusion, looked up, and said, "No." Your friends mistake was thinking that CompUSA would have such a thing in the first place. Chains stock what they can sell at a high volume and NOTHING else. Check out WalMart. It killed the local hardware store, but try and get any hardware from there. -chuck From curt at atari-history.com Fri Jun 7 17:14:00 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack References: <5.0.0.25.0.20020607141121.03378da0@pc> <002f01c20e67$d438ae60$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <3D012C9B.760AA98E@nktelco.net> Message-ID: <001e01c20e70$a0bf8ff0$01000001@cvendel> Bottom line here is with the "consumerization" of many technologies, computers and so forth.... the fact of the matter is that it has moved yet another step away from a hobbyist niche to a "Buy It - Unpack It - Plug it in" world and Radio Shack no longer caters to the chip-level/technical mindset anymore, but to the consumer mindset who still can't manage to set the clock on their vcr unless the thing practically does it by itself. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Dickman" To: Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 5:58 PM Subject: Re: I hate Radio Shack > John Allain wrote: > > I don't hate 'em. > > ...... > > I have had problems, but I don't think they earn much, so I cut 'em slack. > > I agree. My frustration is that they don't seem to recognize thier limitations. > So many times I encounter people at RS, CompUSA, Homedepot, etc. that seem > clueless > but refuse to accept that a customer might know more about a subject than they > know. When I encounter someone that clearly knows more than me, I listen and > try to learn. Sadly, these people argue that what they do not understand or know > must be wrong. > > > John A. > > -chuck From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Jun 7 17:21:28 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: Gold in IBM KB's ? Message-ID: <001701c20e71$ae8a7cc0$56000240@default> Two 84-key AT keyboards sold on eBay yesterday for $122.50 and $127.50. Now I know how I'm going to pay the house note next month. From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Jun 7 17:18:53 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <001801c20e66$888cff30$01000001@cvendel> References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020607171555.02475830@pc> At 05:01 PM 6/7/2002 -0400, Curt Vendel wrote: >Direct Quote from Radio Shack Employee: >"Uhhh errr.... a chip? Whaddya mean? A clip??? Errr uhhhh, chip... >must be a custom order thing, you can call the number in the catalog.... >uuuuuhhhh ummmm errrrr" It went like this, last Friday. "I want X. Do you have anything like that?" "No." "Can I see the catalog?... OK, here it is. Do you have any of these?" "Let me check. No." (Manager intervenes.) "You dipshit, that's a XYZ code, you can't look it up that way, you have to call Carlene to let her check it to see if we have any regionally." "OK, we might have some, but I'm not sure." "OK, I'll just order it from the web site. Goodbye." "Oh, no, we'll special order it for you, it'll be here faster than if you'd used the web site." (Wait one week.) "Hi, I ordered a part from you last week, it's a 15-889. Is it there?" "Let me check... No, we have no evidence that you placed an order here." "Thank you. Good bye." - John From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jun 7 17:24:47 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I actually got into an argument with a local Radio Shack weenie over a > DB-15 hood. Little snot had the gall to tell me that if it wasn't in > their catalog, it didn't exist and I MUST be confused. I told him he > needed to return to McDonald's where his limited cognitive skills would be > more fully appriciated. Fsckwit. *sigh* Well, they USED TO (~1982?) carry DE sized hoods (for 9 and 15 pin), and DB-25 hoods. Don't think that I've seen a DB-15 hood there. From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Jun 7 17:21:33 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16CF7@nswcdlvaex04.nswc .navy.mil> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020607172021.03384508@pc> At 05:00 PM 6/7/2002 -0400, Corda Albert J DLVA wrote: >What annoys me is when they give horribly incorrect advice. I stopped >by a local radio shack earlier this week to price out some RG6/U for >a new DirecTV dish that I was cobbling together. I needed about ~350 >feet of cable. The sales droid insisted that I'd needed to buy three >in-line amps, and install them all at the dish ... (I guess he knew >enough rudimentary english to read the amp packaging, and extrapolate) >What bothered me the most, though, was the authoritative manner in which >he described what I had to do. It took quite an effort to keep from >laughing in his face... Yeah, but if he'd described putting them in-line the right way, would that even work? Is there enough power there to handle three amplifiers, and wouldn't the noise obliterate the signal eventually? - John From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Fri Jun 7 17:35:22 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: MC6800 Datasheet Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E55@BUSH02> Richard, Does anyone have a PDF copy of the Motorola 6800 chip datasheet? I downloaded a copy from somewhere yesterday and the strangest thing happens. When viewing the PDF, it shows on the screen as a positive image but when printing, it prints as a negative. On the print page make sure 'Print as image' is ticked. This should fix the -ve image. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Jun 7 17:42:09 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk Message-ID: Didn't see anyone else mention this story, though it isn't exactly front-page news... China bans toxic American computer junk: http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,725756,00.html Maybe this will help save just a few systems... -Toth From louiss at gate.net Fri Jun 7 17:47:00 2002 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: MC6800 Datasheet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have had this same problem with other PDF files. I think it is a bug in some versions of the Adobe Acrobat Reader. I found I solved the problem if I printed the file with Ghostscript, instead of Adobe Acrobat. Ghostscript, btw, is a GNU public license program that allows the use of Postscript on non-Postscript printers. PDF is evidently a format related to Postscript. Louis On Fri, 7 Jun 2002 13:27:04 -0400, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: #Hello, all: # # Does anyone have a PDF copy of the Motorola 6800 chip datasheet? I #downloaded a copy from somewhere yesterday and the strangest thing happens. #When viewing the PDF, it shows on the screen as a positive image but when #printing, it prints as a negative. # # Thanks. From mythtech at mac.com Fri Jun 7 17:53:36 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: Gold in IBM KB's ? Message-ID: >Two 84-key AT keyboards sold on eBay yesterday for $122.50 and $127.50. >Now I know how I'm going to pay the house note next month. Cripes, and I just gave away two of them to go with the two ATs and matching CGA monitors I gave away. Good thing I still have a supply of them I can sell -chris From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jun 7 18:17:13 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 In-Reply-To: "Richard Erlacher" "Re: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502" (Jun 7, 13:05) References: <00ce01c20e52$03aef520$030101ac@boll.casema.net> <006401c20e56$4afd8460$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <10206080017.ZM2247@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 7, 13:05, Richard Erlacher wrote: > You may be confused about this. I don't know of a single NMOS 6502 that > didn't adhere to the MOS-technology instruction set. There's no telling > whether that included the undocumented opcodes, but since Synertek and > Rockwell used the MOS mask set, I suspect there was no difference. The later > Synertek parts may have been different since they shrank the die and got a bit > more speed, offering a 4 MHz 6502-C, which was an NMOS part and worked > perfectly in NMOS-targeted systems that didn't work with the later CMOS parts. There certainly were differences between the sets of undocumneted opcodes from different manufacturers of 2MHz 6502A parts. I remember one or two "clever" bits of software that failed on some BBC Micros for that very reason. Sean is absolutely right to avoid undocumented codes. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From mythtech at mac.com Fri Jun 7 18:15:53 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: [OT] measuring DC wall wart Message-ID: >Hey, you know what? I missed the beginning of this thread, but this is >exactly the sort of behavior you get from a modem which requires a 9V AC >power supply, when you run it with a 9V _DC_ supply. Interesting. The wall wart I used with the modem is the one that was in the box along with all the other assorted parts. The wart has a label marking it as the same manufacturer as the modem, so I didn't even think about the fact that it might not be the RIGHT wart. Maybe it is really from a different model modem. I didn't persue the issue much since the modem is a Global Village for a Mac. They are great modems... IF you have the right software. Without it, they tend to be a pain in the ass. Since I don't have the exact software that shipped with this model, and since the firmware claims it is a French-Canadian modem, and I only have US-English software... I didn't waste much time working on it. But maybe I will do a little more research and see if it really should have an AC adaptor, not a DC one. Thanks -chris From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Fri Jun 7 18:13:55 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (carlos_murillo@epm.net.co) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: VMS doesn't recognize all physical memory? In-Reply-To: <1023473315.15816.14.camel@wombat> Message-ID: <3CFD381B00001EA3@lauta.epm.net.co> >-- Brian Wheeler wrote -- >I think there's an entry from the VMS FAQ for this... -snip- > >5.7 Why doesn t OpenVMS see the new memory I just added? When adding >memory to an OpenVMS system, one should check for an existing definition >of the PHYSICALPAGES (OpenVMS VAX) or PHYSICAL_MEMORY (OpenVMS Alpha) >parameter in the SYS$SYSTEM:MODPARAMS.DAT parameter database, use a text >editor to reset the value in the file to the new correct value as >required, and then perform the following command: $ @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN >GETDATA REBOOT FEEDBACK -snip- Thanks! That did it! Indeed, the PHYSICAL_PAGES parameter had been set to 32768 in some previous AUTOGEN. Since I did not want to use feedback, but just to change that single parameter, I edited the SYS$SYSTEM:SETPARAMS.DAT file to set parameter PHYSICALPAGES 65536 and invoked @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN SETPARAMS REBOOT NOFEEDBACK. The machine feels faster indeed. Best regards, carlos. ________________________________________ Acceso r?pido a Internet con Epm.Net http://www.epm.net.co From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 7 18:02:40 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: [OT] measuring DC wall wart In-Reply-To: from "Chris" at Jun 7, 2 03:13:25 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 518 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020608/8885a5d9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 7 18:03:51 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: from "J.C. Wren" at Jun 7, 2 03:53:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 142 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020608/587d96ee/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 7 18:06:47 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: from "Gene Buckle" at Jun 7, 2 01:11:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 906 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020608/ce6a633b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 7 18:09:38 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <200206072032.NAA11906@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Jun 7, 2 01:32:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 366 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020608/99486b89/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 7 17:49:50 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: [OT] measuring DC wall wart In-Reply-To: <003601c20e54$e7a6b860$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 7, 2 12:55:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1224 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020607/0961363c/attachment.ksh From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Jun 7 19:04:20 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > something and they look at me like I'm crazy. "I've never heard of such > > > a thing" they say. If it's not a pre-paid cell-phone, they have no clue. > > > > I actually got into an argument with a local Radio Shack weenie over a > > DB-15 hood. Little snot had the gall to tell me that if it wasn't in > > their catalog, it didn't exist and I MUST be confused. I told him he > > I hate to tell you this, but I've never seen a DB15 connector. I've seen > DA15s and DE15s, though... > Well it never mattered enough to bother to learn the "correct" name. In fact, it still doesn't. :) g. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jun 7 20:05:55 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:07 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020607200555.479fdbac@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:42 PM 6/7/02 -0500, you wrote: >Didn't see anyone else mention this story, though it isn't exactly >front-page news... > >China bans toxic American computer junk: > http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,725756,00.html > >Maybe this will help save just a few systems... > >-Toth Yes, but I fear we'll soon be swimming in computer scrap. The amount of scrap that we've been exporting is tremendous. Joe From chd_1 at nktelco.net Fri Jun 7 19:12:31 2002 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Chuck Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:08 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 References: Message-ID: <3D014BEF.909C97CD@nktelco.net> Sellam Ismail wrote: > "undocumented opcodes" but never ventured to use them. However, this is These are things that engineering says not to depend on, the documentation says not to use, and that during the next development cycle, sales says is an absolutely necessary feature. -chuck From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 7 19:28:27 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:08 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 References: Message-ID: <000d01c20e83$686be000$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 1:03 PM Subject: Re: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 > On Fri, 7 Jun 2002, Sipke de Wal wrote: > > > Problem with the 6502 is that different versions > > from different manufacturers had different > > undocumented instructions. So for the general > > public this was not much of a boon .... > > True. > Has anybody got examples, not including the CMOS versions, of course, which are documented to be different, of differences in the NMOS 6502's? In the years that I used 'em, I only had hands-on contact with MOS Technology, Synertek, and Rockwell parts. > > > The Z80 situation was much better > > > > Also the 65C02 (the special CMOS version) > > als was more reliable in this respect > > The 65C02 actually has additional instructions which invalidate former > "undocumented" instructions on the 6502. > There was considerable variation among the CMOS implementations of the 6502. Some had the same, more or less, enhancements in the bit manipulation instructions and read-modify-write instructions, and they all included the wait-on-write cycles, which the NMOS versions lacked. AFAIK, only the Rockwell CMOS version had the jump-indexed-indirect instruction, though. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 7 19:44:01 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:08 2005 Subject: [OT] measuring DC wall wart References: Message-ID: <001901c20e85$959f9ce0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It seems to me that you can take a common TO-3 NPN transistor, e.g. the 2N3055, or something of that sort, drive its base from a pot between the positive and negative voltage, and put a low-valued resistor, e.g. 0.5 ohms or so in the emitter-to-ground path, you have a programmable current sink. If you then tweak the pot until the voltage on the collector is the rated voltage, the voltage on the emitter will tell you what the current is. Else, you can tweak the pot until the voltage on the emitter is such that it reflects the rated current, based on the resistor value. The emitter will follow the base voltage, hence the term "emitter follower." By doing this, you eliminate the need for a high-power resistor, and, you have a wider range of voltages and currents you can monitor. If you're concerned about the transistor's gain, you can use a darlington pair. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" To: "Classic Computer" Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 1:13 PM Subject: Re: [OT] measuring DC wall wart > >It does sound a _little_ high, but it might be OK. Try loading it (A 100 > >Ohm wirewound resistor would do, for example). See if that brings the > >voltage down to nearer 9V. > > I tried a 100k Ohm since I didn't have a 100 Ohm, no effect. I don't have > a bulb or anything handy to try with that. > > I think I am going to dig out the modem it goes to, and test the voltage > with it hooked to that. That will at least give it real use load (the > modem powers up just fine, it just fails to respond to all AT commands > except for getting the firmware, and it won't attempt to go off hook or > dial... I'm not 100% convinced the modem is really "dead" so much as it > just doesn't want to co-operate). > > Thanks to all those that responded... I knew I could get some good > answers here. > > -chris > > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 7 19:59:00 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:08 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 References: <200206072200.PAA09226@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <003f01c20e87$ad306900$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I took a look at the board I used to use for speed-testing microprocessors and found that I did buffer the dip switch with a bidirectional buffer. I'm not sure that's necessary, but if you drive the input side of the dip switches with the R/W line, it better be an inverting buffer and on my 6502 board, it actually NANDs the SYNC with R/W to enable the buffer. From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 7 20:05:00 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:08 2005 Subject: MC6800 Datasheet References: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E55@BUSH02> Message-ID: <005501c20e88$83f35a60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I don't have one. I'm not even sure I have an original datasheet for the 6800 any longer. Once the 6801 came out, I forgot all about the 6800, 02, 08, etc. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Davison, Lee" To: Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 4:35 PM Subject: RE: MC6800 Datasheet > Richard, > > Does anyone have a PDF copy of the Motorola 6800 > chip datasheet? I downloaded a copy from somewhere > yesterday and the strangest thing happens. When viewing > the PDF, it shows on the screen as a positive image but > when printing, it prints as a negative. > > On the print page make sure 'Print as image' is ticked. > This should fix the -ve image. > > Lee. > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The > information contained in this email may contain information which is > confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender > and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. > > If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please > delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International > IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The > service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive > anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: > http://www.star.net.uk > ________________________________________________________________________ > From univac2 at earthlink.net Fri Jun 7 20:06:39 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:08 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <3D012E58.1DA23C50@naffnet.org.uk> Message-ID: on 6/7/02 5:06 PM, Dave Woodman at dave@naffnet.org.uk wrote: > Here in the UK we called them Tandy:- notice the tense used, for Tandy went > bust - even though here you could have been legitimately offered 'chips with > that...' They recently renamed the company RadioShack, officially. AFAIK, it's still basically the same company, it's just called RadioShack instead of Tandy Corp., with RS being a subsidiary. There's still Tandy Wire and Cable, and maybe a few other divisions that still bear the Tandy name. And everyone in Fort Worth still calls them Tandy, mostly because almost half of the people around here have worked for Tandy at one time or another. The last time I was in the Tandy Towers, they had replaced the Tandy Corp. logo with a RadioShack Corporation sign. I must, say, pretty spiffy. Good or bad, they still took the ice skating place out of the Tandy Center downtown. And they're going to abandon the Tandy Subway, when they sell the Tandy Center. Now everyone will have no choice but to fight for a parking space downtown. -- Owen Robertson From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 7 20:36:24 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:08 2005 Subject: minor details on the MC6800 References: <00ce01c20e52$03aef520$030101ac@boll.casema.net> <006401c20e56$4afd8460$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <10206080017.ZM2247@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <001101c20e8c$e69aa520$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Here's a page with some interesting "miscellaneous trivia" including the transistor count, etc. of the 6800 ... I remember that came up as a question some time back. more regarding the 6502 below ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Turnbull" To: Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 > On Jun 7, 13:05, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > You may be confused about this. I don't know of a single NMOS 6502 that > > didn't adhere to the MOS-technology instruction set. There's no telling > > whether that included the undocumented opcodes, but since Synertek and > > Rockwell used the MOS mask set, I suspect there was no difference. The > later > > Synertek parts may have been different since they shrank the die and got > a bit > > more speed, offering a 4 MHz 6502-C, which was an NMOS part and worked > > perfectly in NMOS-targeted systems that didn't work with the later CMOS > parts. > > There certainly were differences between the sets of undocumneted opcodes > from different manufacturers of 2MHz 6502A parts. I remember one or two > "clever" bits of software that failed on some BBC Micros for that very > reason. Sean is absolutely right to avoid undocumented codes. > I don't know that I have any of the NMOS 2 MHz 6502A parts any longer, but I'm planning a complete re-read of the undocumented opcodes and their behavior sometime soon. I figure I can do it with a serial-port connected 805x family part, with ports 1 and 2 monitoring the address lines, port 0 on the data bus, and port 3 interacting with the clocks, R/W, sync, rdy, and irq lines. A fast enough part can download the things it "sees" via the serial port and can hold the circuit under test in WAIT until the data is uploaded to the host. A timer can drive the Phase-0 clock. That should provide ample detail about what, exactly happens on every opcode without a lot of fiddling with a logic analyzer. It'll be a while, though ... > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 7 20:57:26 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:08 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Jun 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > Didn't see anyone else mention this story, though it isn't exactly > front-page news... > > China bans toxic American computer junk: > http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,725756,00.html > > Maybe this will help save just a few systems... The Alameda Countyy Computer Resource Center stopped sending scrap to China after they found out their middlemen were simply engaging in the dumping practices which led China to enact this ban. I'm all for this. It will force companies and governments to seriously look at recycling issues rather than literally dumping the problem off on poor third world shmoes. From sloboyko at yahoo.com Fri Jun 7 22:21:04 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:08 2005 Subject: minor details on the MC6800 In-Reply-To: <001101c20e8c$e69aa520$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20020608032104.15458.qmail@web11805.mail.yahoo.com> I have a wonderful magazine, EE Times, September, 1988, a special on the 30th anniversary of the integrated circuit. It's mentioned that the first design of the 6800 was a yield catastrophe, and essentially it was completely relaid out from scratch before it was actually released. Other interesting stuff, for example, the PDP-8 inspired Ted Hoff on the design of the 4004. --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > Here's a page with some interesting "miscellaneous > trivia" including the > transistor count, etc. of the 6800 ... I remember > that came up as a question > some time back. > > more regarding the 6502 below ... > > Dick > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pete Turnbull" > To: > Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 5:17 PM > Subject: Re: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 > > > > On Jun 7, 13:05, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > You may be confused about this. I don't know of > a single NMOS 6502 that > > > didn't adhere to the MOS-technology instruction > set. There's no telling > > > whether that included the undocumented opcodes, > but since Synertek and > > > Rockwell used the MOS mask set, I suspect there > was no difference. The > > later > > > Synertek parts may have been different since > they shrank the die and got > > a bit > > > more speed, offering a 4 MHz 6502-C, which was > an NMOS part and worked > > > perfectly in NMOS-targeted systems that didn't > work with the later CMOS > > parts. > > > > There certainly were differences between the sets > of undocumneted opcodes > > from different manufacturers of 2MHz 6502A parts. > I remember one or two > > "clever" bits of software that failed on some BBC > Micros for that very > > reason. Sean is absolutely right to avoid > undocumented codes. > > > I don't know that I have any of the NMOS 2 MHz 6502A > parts any longer, but I'm > planning a complete re-read of the undocumented > opcodes and their behavior > sometime soon. I figure I can do it with a > serial-port connected 805x family > part, with ports 1 and 2 monitoring the address > lines, port 0 on the data bus, > and port 3 interacting with the clocks, R/W, sync, > rdy, and irq lines. A fast > enough part can download the things it "sees" via > the serial port and can hold > the circuit under test in WAIT until the data is > uploaded to the host. A > timer can drive the Phase-0 clock. That should > provide ample detail about > what, exactly happens on every opcode without a lot > of fiddling with a logic > analyzer. It'll be a while, though ... > > -- > > Pete Peter Turnbull > > Network Manager > > University of York > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Fri Jun 7 22:24:23 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:08 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <00b101c20e5e$29efeee0$01000001@cvendel> Message-ID: <000e01c20e9b$fcccdfc0$023ca8c0@blafleur> > I thought it was MSN memberships ;-) No, Best Buy has the corner on selling those :) From sloboyko at yahoo.com Fri Jun 7 22:37:13 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:08 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <001801c20e66$888cff30$01000001@cvendel> Message-ID: <20020608033713.55149.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> Actually, the WORST thing about buying parts at a Radio Shack are the salespeople who don't actually _want_ to help you, and _can't_ actually help you, but follow you around at the parts section anyway...because they assume that you are going to steal something...hilarious to me because I know what I earn, and I also know what they earn. RS is an ABSOLUTE last resort for anything. I'd rather wait a week by mail order most of the time. However, in my opinion, actually useful stuff at RS: 1. Some of the project boards, while not of very good quality, are reasonably priced. 2. Some of the project cases are nice and reasonably priced. 3. The muultipurpose wall warts are good to have. 4. The DB-25 and DB-9 metal hoods, while ridiculously priced, are very nice. 5. The better quality switches, while very expensive, are actually almost worth it. --- Curt Vendel wrote: > Oh I know what you're saying.... all I needed with a > 7404, a lowsy 7404 > which next to hygrogen atoms is the most abundant > thing on the planet.... > > Direct Quote from Radio Shack Employee: > "Uhhh errr.... a chip? Whaddya mean? A clip??? > Errr uhhhh, chip... > must be a custom order thing, you can call the > number in the catalog.... > uuuuuhhhh ummmm errrrr" > > Radio Shack my ass! DirecTV/MSN/Cellphone Sh*t > Shack is more like it. > > > > Curt > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gene Buckle" > To: > Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 4:11 PM > Subject: RE: I hate Radio Shack > > > > > something and they look at me like I'm crazy. > "I've never heard of such > > > a thing" they say. If it's not a pre-paid > cell-phone, they have no clue. > > > > I actually got into an argument with a local Radio > Shack weenie over a > > DB-15 hood. Little snot had the gall to tell me > that if it wasn't in > > their catalog, it didn't exist and I MUST be > confused. I told him he > > needed to return to McDonald's where his limited > cognitive skills would be > > more fully appriciated. Fsckwit. *sigh* > > > > g. > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From blacklord at telstra.com Fri Jun 7 22:41:39 2002 From: blacklord at telstra.com (blacklord) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:08 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack Message-ID: <58dd858936.5893658dd8@bigpond.com> Hi Owen, ----- Original Message ----- From: Owen Robertson > I had an experience where a RadioShack employee didn't know what a > null-modem adapter was. And several experience where in the middle of > describing what I'm looking for, I look at the salesman's face, > and realize > that he has no clue what I'm talking about. So I guess when you > walk into a > RadioShack store, and someone asks if they can help you, and you > tell them > no, you're being quite literal - They *can't* help you. This must be a US thing, in general, in Oz, they seem to be a much more knowledgable bunch. But, the drift has been away from electronic components to consumer electronics, that's the market these days, so you can't really expect them to know much about things other than that. cheers, Lance ---------------- Powered by telstra.com From curt at atari-history.com Fri Jun 7 22:51:19 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:08 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack References: <20020608033713.55149.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005701c20e9f$bfe6ad30$01000001@cvendel> The only thing I find Radio Shack good for anymore is solder and replacement solder tips, occasionally some connectors and sometimes if they actually have any in stock, certain resistors. Prices are ridiculously high, but in a pinch and not wanting to wait several days for a delivery from Jameco or digikey, I'll venture over to the local RS for a few odds and ends if they actually have anything in stock or enough quantity (their parts stock keeps getting smaller and smaller... guess they need more room for the remote controlled toys, msn display and DirecTV display) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Loboyko Steve" To: Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 11:37 PM Subject: Re: I hate Radio Shack > Actually, the WORST thing about buying parts at a > Radio Shack are the salespeople who don't actually > _want_ to help you, and _can't_ actually help you, but > follow you around at the parts section > anyway...because they assume that you are going to > steal something...hilarious to me because I know what > I earn, and I also know what they earn. > > RS is an ABSOLUTE last resort for anything. I'd rather > wait a week by mail order most of the time. However, > in my opinion, actually useful stuff at RS: > > 1. Some of the project boards, while not of very good > quality, are reasonably priced. > > 2. Some of the project cases are nice and reasonably > priced. > > 3. The muultipurpose wall warts are good to have. > > 4. The DB-25 and DB-9 metal hoods, while ridiculously > priced, are very nice. > > 5. The better quality switches, while very expensive, > are actually almost worth it. > > > > > > > --- Curt Vendel wrote: > > Oh I know what you're saying.... all I needed with a > > 7404, a lowsy 7404 > > which next to hygrogen atoms is the most abundant > > thing on the planet.... > > > > Direct Quote from Radio Shack Employee: > > "Uhhh errr.... a chip? Whaddya mean? A clip??? > > Errr uhhhh, chip... > > must be a custom order thing, you can call the > > number in the catalog.... > > uuuuuhhhh ummmm errrrr" > > > > Radio Shack my ass! DirecTV/MSN/Cellphone Sh*t > > Shack is more like it. > > > > > > > > Curt > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gene Buckle" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 4:11 PM > > Subject: RE: I hate Radio Shack > > > > > > > > something and they look at me like I'm crazy. > > "I've never heard of such > > > > a thing" they say. If it's not a pre-paid > > cell-phone, they have no clue. > > > > > > I actually got into an argument with a local Radio > > Shack weenie over a > > > DB-15 hood. Little snot had the gall to tell me > > that if it wasn't in > > > their catalog, it didn't exist and I MUST be > > confused. I told him he > > > needed to return to McDonald's where his limited > > cognitive skills would be > > > more fully appriciated. Fsckwit. *sigh* > > > > > > g. > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From mbg at TheWorld.com Fri Jun 7 23:04:29 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:08 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 References: <20020607053427.30198.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200206080404.AAA881341@shell.TheWorld.com> >I don't see an HCF in the Mot listings of their instruction set. I doubt it would be listed... >I've heard about this fiction over several decades now, and, surely, it >must be clear to you that there's no way the microprocessor can cause >that effect without the aid of external hardware. I've actually seen it in operation, though I've not seen it smoke a chip... I have one of the Heathkit Microprocessor Trainers (ET-3400) and actually tried the instruction... and yes, you can see the address lines incrementing (one of the exercises is to setup LEDs to watch either data or address lines). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Jun 6 22:27:59 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:08 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] New Finds This Week Message-ID: <020d01c20dd3$535a90e0$0c000240@default> Well its been a little slow this week but here goes: 1. A IBM 3745 Communication Controller with keyboard, monitor (IBM 3151), various cables for it, and a Diagnostic Descriptions manual. Cost was $15 total. 2. 4-Mac SE/30's; 6-Mac Mac SE FDHD's; 3-Mac Classic's; and 1-Mac SE. These I will be trading or selling for $2 each. I wanted a Mac LC 630 that was part of the lot and had to take it all. 3. Toshiba T1000 not test yet. Cost $1 4. Xscribe XEC5 cpu only no power adapter. It was free. 5. Apple IIgs WOZ limited edition. It was free 6. PowerPC 5200/75LC and 8500/120. $25 for both 7. IBM 2.02 Technical Reference manual for the XT. 8. "Bowling" Interchangeable cartridge for the Microvision in the box. 30 cents at a thrift. 9. Atari 1027 printer and 1050 FDD were $1.91 each at thrift. 10. HP-85 Owners and programming manual. $1 11. IBM 9533 model DB7 computer 12. Plastic box with diskettes from Xerox for the 6060 family of computers. _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From florit at unixville.com Fri Jun 7 15:33:39 2002 From: florit at unixville.com (Louis Florit) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:08 2005 Subject: Corvus Omninet... TRS-80? Message-ID: I have a TRS-80 I got from Weird Stuffwhile I was living in Silicon Valley. It was the last few left from what aparently was a school 'Please take these dinos away' disposal. Its a model IV, but has no drives. I was tempted to gut the case, create some sort of adapter for the keyboard to connect it to an internal PC mobo and replace the monitor as well. Needless to say I never got around to it. Its in working condition, (turns on, goes into basic, keyboard works) but the case is showing its age and exposure to the elements. While I was in the process of taking it apart to clean it up, I saw two butterfly nuts with a piece of what seemed a cut off telephone cable, 2 leads. I asked on the trs80 newgroup and they mentioned that it could be a now little known networking card for a system, Corvus Omninet. This would explain the diskless condition of the TRS-80, as it would load up its files over the network to do anything interesting besides load up the basic rom. Since I didn't hack the TRS80 into the abomination I was thinking of, I would like to sell it (cheap! take it off my hands! I've too many computers) to someone more interested in it; mail me offlist: florit @t unixville.com Anyone have a server for this setup? Definitely cool on the unknown factor. Louis PS: I also run The Unofficial Timex Sinclair 2068 website at http://www.timexsinclair.org From lincoln.fessenden at verizon.net Fri Jun 7 15:49:56 2002 From: lincoln.fessenden at verizon.net (linc fessenden) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:08 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Jun 2002, Gene Buckle wrote: > > > > Again and again, whenever enough time passes for me to > > forget how utterly incompetent these people are, and then > > "You have questions, we have dumb looks!" > > g. > > I just called them today and asked them for a price on a decibel meter. The sales boy on the other end of the phone said "We have some multimeters?"... Ugh. -- -Linc Fessenden In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Jun 7 13:36:33 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:08 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] ancient transistors found! In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E50137195A@MAIL10> Message-ID: <20020607223139.VVXH9770.tomts24-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> While working at video/audio shop, we cleaned out old junk boxes, only few unearthed stuff that goes "exclaims: what that!?" from me or coworker goes "wow.". Here's this odd transistor only marking on it is: ADY26 From rschaefe at gcfn.org Fri Jun 7 21:58:29 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:09 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] An interesting link... Message-ID: <00f101c20e98$5f3ac4a0$79469280@y5f3q8> http://www.netbsd.org/Changes/#port-pdp10 Dunno anything about it, but it should be on topic... Bob _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Fri Jun 7 23:52:29 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:09 2005 Subject: Corvus Omninet... TRS-80? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001001c20ea8$4b7d6980$023ca8c0@blafleur> Funny we were just talking about Corvus OmniNet over the past few days. That definitely sounds like the kind of connector that OmniNet used. I have no idea if it worked with TRS-80, but I guess I wouldn't be surprised that it did. - Bob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Louis Florit Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 4:34 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Corvus Omninet... TRS-80? I have a TRS-80 I got from Weird Stuffwhile I was living in Silicon Valley. It was the last few left from what aparently was a school 'Please take these dinos away' disposal. Its a model IV, but has no drives. I was tempted to gut the case, create some sort of adapter for the keyboard to connect it to an internal PC mobo and replace the monitor as well. Needless to say I never got around to it. Its in working condition, (turns on, goes into basic, keyboard works) but the case is showing its age and exposure to the elements. While I was in the process of taking it apart to clean it up, I saw two butterfly nuts with a piece of what seemed a cut off telephone cable, 2 leads. I asked on the trs80 newgroup and they mentioned that it could be a now little known networking card for a system, Corvus Omninet. This would explain the diskless condition of the TRS-80, as it would load up its files over the network to do anything interesting besides load up the basic rom. Since I didn't hack the TRS80 into the abomination I was thinking of, I would like to sell it (cheap! take it off my hands! I've too many computers) to someone more interested in it; mail me offlist: florit @t unixville.com Anyone have a server for this setup? Definitely cool on the unknown factor. Louis PS: I also run The Unofficial Timex Sinclair 2068 website at http://www.timexsinclair.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 7 23:55:36 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:09 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <58dd858936.5893658dd8@bigpond.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Jun 2002, blacklord wrote: > This must be a US thing, in general, in Oz, they seem to be a much more > knowledgable bunch. But, the drift has been away from electronic > components to consumer electronics, that's the market these days, so > you can't really expect them to know much about things other than that. You basically hit at the heart of the matter. The reality is that US society on the whole does not do hacking at a hardware level anymore (which I suspect is the case in other parts of the world) and Radio Shack has responded by evolving into yet another typical consumer electronics showroom. Over the past two decades, we have gone from a nation of builders to a nation of users. We throw away perfectly good items because perhaps a cap blew or whatever it is was "just too old". This is the work of Capitalism and Marketing. It used to be that we encouraged people to learn and do. Now we encourage people to buy and expend. We are the last bastion of a bygone era. Revel in your own obsolescence ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 7 23:57:58 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:09 2005 Subject: Corvus Omninet... TRS-80? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Jun 2002, Louis Florit wrote: > While I was in the process of taking it apart to clean it up, I saw two > butterfly nuts with a piece of what seemed a cut off telephone cable, 2 > leads. > > I asked on the trs80 newgroup and they mentioned that it could be a now > little known networking card for a system, Corvus Omninet. This would > explain the diskless condition of the TRS-80, as it would load up its > files over the network to do anything interesting besides load up the > basic rom. Dang, I knew I should have bought one of those when I had the chance ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sat Jun 8 00:18:24 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:09 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack References: <5.0.0.25.0.20020607141121.03378da0@pc> Message-ID: <3D0193A0.EED12E04@ccp.com> John Foust wrote: > > Again and again, whenever enough time passes for me to > forget how utterly incompetent these people are, and then > I place an order for something - or should I say try to > place an order for something - those neurons are refreshed > with a new memory of exactly how much they *always* screw it up, > and they try again to refresh the other neurons that > tell me to never, ever expect anything but idiocy from > that place, and that it's only useful if I can push them > aside, get what I want, and get out without giving them > the chance to screw it up. I needed to vent. Thank you. > > - John Yep that's why they are known as Rat Shack, or Trash Shack (sorry to all the TRS-80 fans). Here in St. Joe we call it the out house, as they are usually out of whatever you want. Those kids get paid minimum wage and know minimum when it comes to anything other than cell phones and stereos. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sat Jun 8 00:24:33 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:09 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] ancient transistors found! References: <20020607223139.VVXH9770.tomts24-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <3D019511.744EC928@ccp.com> jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > While working at video/audio shop, we cleaned out old junk boxes, > only few unearthed stuff that goes "exclaims: what that!?" from me or > coworker goes "wow.". > > Here's this odd transistor only marking on it is: > > ADY26 > >From web search, it is TO3 package. Felt like solid tin > plated copper w/ bolt stud. > > What it is usually used in what equipment? > > What era that transistors were used? 1960's? > > This one is way before MY TIME. :-( ) > > Cheers, > > Wizard Bolt stud?? sounds like a TO36 . . looks like a big round doorknob with emitter and base leads in a straight line with the stud (case=collector). Most of that case style were PNP germanium transistors, used in car radio output stages, and some old two-way radio T-power B+ supplies. Being Ge, they usually weren't too reliable, and quite prone to failure. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Jun 8 00:53:07 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:09 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack References: <5.0.0.25.0.20020607141121.03378da0@pc> <002f01c20e67$d438ae60$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <3D012C9B.760AA98E@nktelco.net> <001e01c20e70$a0bf8ff0$01000001@cvendel> Message-ID: <3D019BC3.DCE712C9@jetnet.ab.ca> Curt Vendel wrote: > > Bottom line here is with the "consumerization" of many technologies, > computers and so forth.... the fact of the matter is that it has moved yet > another step away from a hobbyist niche to a "Buy It - Unpack It - Plug it > in" world and Radio Shack no longer caters to the chip-level/technical > mindset anymore, but to the consumer mindset who still can't manage to set > the clock on their vcr unless the thing practically does it by itself. Why bother ... I just use 'manual' vcr control. :) -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From dave at naffnet.org.uk Sat Jun 8 01:08:19 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:09 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] ancient transistors found! References: <20020607223139.VVXH9770.tomts24-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <3D019F53.786F5B11@naffnet.org.uk> jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > While working at video/audio shop, we cleaned out old junk boxes, > only few unearthed stuff that goes "exclaims: what that!?" from me or > coworker goes "wow.". > > Here's this odd transistor only marking on it is: > > ADY26 > >From web search, it is TO3 package. Felt like solid tin > plated copper w/ bolt stud. > > What it is usually used in what equipment? > > What era that transistors were used? 1960's? > > This one is way before MY TIME. :-( ) > > Cheers, > > Wizard > _______________________________________________ > cctech mailing list > cctech@classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech The 2 or 3 letters - number - possible letter format for transistors is the European labelling scheme. From my copy of Tower's, ADY26 PNP Germanium. Case T036 with lead-out L13. Vcb max 80V, Vce max 40V, Veb max 40V, Ic max 25A, Tj max 90C, Ptot 100WH, F1min 100KHz, Hfe 15MN, Hfe bias 25A. Use - audio, high current, general purpose. Manufacturer - Mullard. European equivalent ADZ12 US Equivalent 2N1100. That's all I can tell you about the beast, Dave. From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sat Jun 8 03:19:58 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:09 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] ancient transistors found! In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 07 Jun 2002 18:36:33 -0000." <20020607223139.VVXH9770.tomts24-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <200206080819.JAA28746@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, jpero@sympatico.ca said: > While working at video/audio shop, we cleaned out old junk boxes, > only few unearthed stuff that goes "exclaims: what that!?" from me or > coworker goes "wow.". > > Here's this odd transistor only marking on it is: > > ADY26 > >From web search, it is TO3 package. Felt like solid tin > plated copper w/ bolt stud. Germanium PNP 75W Vcbo -80V Vceo -60V Ic 25A hFE 60 @ 4mA,80V General purpose power transistor. From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jun 8 04:57:48 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:09 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020607200555.479fdbac@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Jun 2002, Joe wrote: > At 05:42 PM 6/7/02 -0500, you wrote: > > > Didn't see anyone else mention this story, though it isn't exactly > > front-page news... > > > > China bans toxic American computer junk: > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,725756,00.html > > > > Maybe this will help save just a few systems... > > Yes, but I fear we'll soon be swimming in computer scrap. The amount > of scrap that we've been exporting is tremendous. I guess US companies will have to start dealing with scrap in better ways now. Of course, it does also mean we might have a better chance to grab the better parts and systems before they are scrapped. It also seems that it would be more profitable for companies to sell (or even give away) such old systems to folks that will give them a home (possibly with a signed agreement transferring the responsibility for recycling to the new owner) rather than deal with the scrapping and recycling of it. If China's ban works, the better metals will also quit finding their way out of the US. Most of the *old* systems were made with high grade aluminum and steel. It appears those are some of the materials (as well as lots and lots of plastics and lead...) that are piling up in places like China. The only metals that seem to be of immediate value to the scrappers are gold, silver, and to a limited degree, copper. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jun 8 05:13:52 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:09 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <20020608033713.55149.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Jun 2002, Loboyko Steve wrote: > 1. Some of the project boards, while not of very good quality, are > reasonably priced. > > 2. Some of the project cases are nice and reasonably priced. I have to agree that both of these are reasonably priced are are of fair quality. Both are good for prototype designs when you don't want to spend the extra cash on higher grade boards and cases. > 3. The muultipurpose wall warts are good to have. > > 4. The DB-25 and DB-9 metal hoods, while ridiculously priced, are very > nice. > > 5. The better quality switches, while very expensive, are actually > almost worth it. I guess I'm spoiled due to living in Houston, since there are at least half a dozen local parts shops and dealers in town that stock these kinds of things. Several of the shops stock mostly common parts, while the others maintain a large stock both common parts and the more unusual surplus stuff. Of course, Mouser electronics is only a phone call and 1-2 days delivery time away (UPS ground to Houston). -Toth From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jun 8 05:48:23 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:09 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 In-Reply-To: <000d01c20e83$686be000$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Jun 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > see below, plz. > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > > > Problem with the 6502 is that different versions > > > from different manufacturers had different > > > undocumented instructions. So for the general > > > public this was not much of a boon .... > Has anybody got examples, not including the CMOS versions, of course, which > are documented to be different, of differences in the NMOS 6502's? In the > years that I used 'em, I only had hands-on contact with MOS Technology, > Synertek, and Rockwell parts. Where the UNDOCUMENTED aspects are DOCUMENTED to be different ? From jrice at texoma.net Sat Jun 8 09:15:39 2002 From: jrice at texoma.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:09 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack References: Message-ID: <3D02118B.1080804@texoma.net> I guess that DFW spoils us too. Tanner's is 25 minutes from my home or office, All-Tex is 5 minutes less than that, Electronic Wholesale Supply is 5 minutes from my office, Mouser is 45 minutes away from my office, 70 minutes from my home. There is First Saturday, Electronic Discount Sales two stores, over priced as thay are, Software Etc in Allen, and a number of metal and surplus dealers in the surrounding area. James Tothwolf wrote: >I guess I'm spoiled due to living in Houston, since there are at least >half a dozen local parts shops and dealers in town that stock these kinds >of things. Several of the shops stock mostly common parts, while the >others maintain a large stock both common parts and the more unusual >surplus stuff. > >Of course, Mouser electronics is only a phone call and 1-2 days delivery >time away (UPS ground to Houston). > >-Toth > > > > > From davebarnes at adelphia.net Sat Jun 8 09:38:01 2002 From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:09 2005 Subject: Corvus Omninet... TRS-80? References: <001001c20ea8$4b7d6980$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <3D0216C9.486E7CDD@adelphia.net> yes there was a corvus Omninet card for the Model IV, and Model II, 12, etc... I had one... long ago... Matter of fact at one time I think I had at least ONE of EVERY omninet interface ever supported... just to try and get them all... the only one that ever alluded me was the card for the Macintosh... Bob Lafleur wrote: > Funny we were just talking about Corvus OmniNet over the past few days. > > That definitely sounds like the kind of connector that OmniNet used. I > have no idea if it worked with TRS-80, but I guess I wouldn't be > surprised that it did. > > - Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Louis Florit > Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 4:34 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Corvus Omninet... TRS-80? > > I have a TRS-80 I got from Weird Stuffwhile I was living in Silicon > Valley. > It was the last few left from what aparently was a school 'Please take > these dinos away' disposal. Its a model IV, but has no drives. I was > tempted to gut the case, create some sort of adapter for the keyboard to > > connect it to an internal PC mobo and replace the monitor as well. > Needless to say I never got around to it. > > Its in working condition, (turns on, goes into basic, keyboard works) > but the case is showing its age and exposure to the elements. > > While I was in the process of taking it apart to clean it up, I saw two > butterfly nuts with a piece of what seemed a cut off telephone cable, 2 > leads. > > I asked on the trs80 newgroup and they mentioned that it could be a now > little known networking card for a system, Corvus Omninet. This would > explain the diskless condition of the TRS-80, as it would load up its > files over the network to do anything interesting besides load up the > basic rom. > > Since I didn't hack the TRS80 into the abomination I was thinking of, I > would like to sell it (cheap! take it off my hands! I've too many > computers) to someone more interested in it; mail me offlist: florit > @t > unixville.com > > Anyone have a server for this setup? Definitely cool on the unknown > factor. > > Louis > > PS: I also run The Unofficial Timex Sinclair 2068 website at > http://www.timexsinclair.org From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 8 09:19:55 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:09 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 References: Message-ID: <000e01c20ef7$9204e320$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 4:48 AM Subject: Re: [CCTECH] Interesting tidbit on 6502 > On Fri, 7 Jun 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > see below, plz. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > Problem with the 6502 is that different versions > > > > from different manufacturers had different > > > > undocumented instructions. So for the general > > > > public this was not much of a boon .... > > > Has anybody got examples, not including the CMOS versions, of course, which > > are documented to be different, of differences in the NMOS 6502's? In the > > years that I used 'em, I only had hands-on contact with MOS Technology, > > Synertek, and Rockwell parts. > > Where the UNDOCUMENTED aspects are DOCUMENTED to be different ? > There's been quite a bit of effort put into characterizing the behavior of serveral popular processors of the '80's with respect to their behavior, both in terms of their behavior when given undocumented opcodes, and in terms of undocumented behaviors (bugs) when they were executing documented opcodes. A few of these are well publicized, while some are not. One example of the latter sort is the beavior of the Z80 executing an INIR or OTIR, which is not supposed to impact the parity flag, but seemingly does. > Since there has been effort in this direction over the past two decades, quite a bit is published, albeit not by the chip manufacturers. Of course, this is not "official" data, but anything that is unofficial can be documented, and the rest is a question of how much you trust the source. The manufacturer didn't document these unofficially recognized behaviors for a number of reasons, among which would be that they intended to use the logic that provided them for something they considered more important, or perhaps because they simply didn't want to take responsibility for those behaviors. From geneb at deltasoft.com Sat Jun 8 09:24:38 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:09 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > > > > I just called them today and asked them for a price on a decibel > meter. The sales boy on the other end of the phone said "We have some > multimeters?"... Ugh. > I can actually top that. In the early 90's, I used to do some software work for an electronics store called Supertronix. We sold stuff like Radio Shack, but we actually knew what the hell was going on. :) Anyway, one of the high-school kids that was working there told us about the time he went into RS looking for a GaSFET and was promptly told that he might have better luck in an auto parts store. g. From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 8 09:25:33 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:09 2005 Subject: OT (?): Mac (NUBUS) users ... ethernet board available References: Message-ID: <000f01c20ef8$597df360$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> somebody convinced me that I wanted to take a Mac NUBUS (Centris 610) ethernet card off his hands. I did it, but I'm not sure why. It's OLD, dating back to the very early '90's and may, in fact, be old enough to be on-topic for this forum. The notes on the box suggest it was phased out in '94. It doesn't fit any hardware I own. $5 + freight ($3.75 via USPS Priority Mail) if you want it. It's complete with the box, manual, and diskettes. Dick From mythtech at mac.com Sat Jun 8 09:59:59 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:09 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack Message-ID: >Those kids get paid minimum wage and >know minimum when it comes to anything other than cell phones and >stereos. Last I knew around here... they get paid on commision with the Manager being the only one with an hourly pay. And that goes a LONG ways to explain why they don't *want* to care about the little $1 and $2 components, but would rather sign you to a DirecTV or Cell Phone, or MSN service. It is the only way for them to make any real money out of the place. At least the local Rat Shack that I go to isn't too bad to deal with service wise. The reason being is these guys like I said above, don't care about the little parts, and really don't want to waste time helping someone with them. That is time wasted that they could be trying to convince someone to buy a high priced item or service or anything that might make their weekly pay check come close to that of a McD's burger flipper. That works out in my favor. I can walk in to the store, head right to the misc parts section, and watch every sales goon turn around and walk away from me. From them, NO help is GOOD help. -chris From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Sat Jun 8 10:16:50 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:09 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] New Finds This Week In-Reply-To: <020d01c20dd3$535a90e0$0c000240@default> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020608111650.00e22d2c@pop1.epm.net.co> At 10:27 PM 6/6/02 -0500, you wrote: >2. 4-Mac SE/30's; SE/30's with network adapter and enough memory are a joy; you can use them as general-purpose enet terminals with NCSA Telnet (with as many as 8 windows I think) or you can run netBSD on them. I have one-could use more- but shipping to Colombia would be a killer... carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Jun 8 11:24:03 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:09 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Jun 8, 2 00:09:38 am" Message-ID: <200206081624.JAA26552@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Best blank stare from a salesdroid was obtained by a friend of mine at a > > CompUSA, who (legimately, he wasn't trying to be difficult) walked in and > > asked for a DE-15 breakout kit to make up a serial cable. The salesdroid > > Just out of curiousity, which machine uses DE15 connectors for the > serial ports? I've only ever seen them used for VGA monitors. I think it was a dummy terminal of some kind, but I don't remember the model. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- He whose face gives no light, shall never become a star. -- William Blake -- From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jun 8 11:55:01 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:09 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020608115501.225f3668@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:57 PM 6/7/02 -0700, Sellam wrote: >On Fri, 7 Jun 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > > >From the above article: > >"The US is the only industrialised country to have failed to ratify the >1989 UN Basel convention which calls for a total ban on the export of >hazardous waste." What amazes me is that it's taken so lang for some countries (China) to put a ban on the IMPORTATION of hazardous waste. > >No surprise there. Of course we can't blame good ole W. for this one, but >we can blame his stupid dad. Why do you call him stupid? If they're willing to not only take it but to actually BUY it then why shouldn't we sell it to them? Tell me, if you were presently piling all of your garbage up in your back yard and then a trash company came along and not only offered to haul it away but also offered to pay for it, wouldn't you sell it? In any event, it's unfair to blame the prez for this practice. It's the fault of the local garbage companies, recyclers, surplus companies, computer manufacturers AND the American consumer. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jun 8 11:46:12 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:09 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20020607200555.479fdbac@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020608114612.225f34dc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:57 AM 6/8/02 -0500, you wrote: >On Fri, 7 Jun 2002, Joe wrote: >> At 05:42 PM 6/7/02 -0500, you wrote: >> >> > Didn't see anyone else mention this story, though it isn't exactly >> > front-page news... >> > >> > China bans toxic American computer junk: >> > http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,725756,00.html >> > >> > Maybe this will help save just a few systems... >> >> Yes, but I fear we'll soon be swimming in computer scrap. The amount >> of scrap that we've been exporting is tremendous. > >I guess US companies will have to start dealing with scrap in better ways >now. Of course, it does also mean we might have a better chance to grab >the better parts and systems before they are scrapped. It also seems that >it would be more profitable for companies to sell (or even give away) such >old systems to folks that will give them a home (possibly with a signed >agreement transferring the responsibility for recycling to the new owner) >rather than deal with the scrapping and recycling of it. > >If China's ban works, the better metals will also quit finding their way >out of the US. Better metals!?!?! You MUST be kidding! The metal in 99% computers is about one level above slag. There might be some decent metal in some OLD computers but for every old computer (with or without decent metal) there will be 500 modern (ie made of plastic and tin foil) PCs. I foresee a big boost in the amount of recycled plastic that will be available. The recyclers that I know are currently piling up the steel since it costs more to haul it to a recycling center than it's worth. Most of the *old* systems were made with high grade >aluminum and steel. It appears those are some of the materials (as well as >lots and lots of plastics and lead...) that are piling up in places like >China. The only metals that seem to be of immediate value to the scrappers >are gold, silver, and to a limited degree, copper. And aluminium if it's clean and in decent size pieces. However modern PCs have just about zero metal in them and virtually no gold silver or copper. I realize that some edge connectors have gold and there is copper on the circuit boards but the amounts are miniscule and certainly not worth the labor and chemicals to extract it. But seriously, I was talking to Gary and he said that he's thinking of starting a computer recycling center. I'm thinking that that might not be a bad idea for some of us that are interested in old systems. Since the US will no longer be able to dump the stuff overseas, there should be a big demand for people/places that will accept computers and recycle them. In addition, we would have our pick of anything interesting. Joe > >-Toth > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jun 8 12:19:52 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:09 2005 Subject: new finds :-) Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020608121952.0ee7ad4c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Went to a small local hamfest this morning and came home with a Z-80 trainer made by E&L Instruments (remember the Bugbooks?), a Gunnplexer cookbook, a HP-15C with manual, HP-18C with manual and four HP Solutions books, and a HeathKit Most Accurate Clock II with manuals (receives time code from WWV and sets itself automaticly. Has LED display and serial link to connect to a computer). Passed up a TRUCK LOAD of Amigas and other Commodore stuff for $10. Not bad for an hour of looking :-) Does anyone have the manual for the E&L Z-80 trainer? It's mounted in a black plasic case and is marked "The Fox" and also model MT-80Z. It has two circuit boards, a bread boarding area, a Std Bus expansion connector, a keypad and six digit LED display. Joe From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jun 8 12:46:01 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:09 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020608114612.225f34dc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Jun 2002, Joe wrote: > But seriously, I was talking to Gary and he said that he's thinking of > starting a computer recycling center. I'm thinking that that might not > be a bad idea for some of us that are interested in old systems. Since > the US will no longer be able to dump the stuff overseas, there should > be a big demand for people/places that will accept computers and > recycle them. In addition, we would have our pick of anything > interesting. I'd like to start something here in Houston, but I currently lack the warehouse space that would be required. It might be good to have places on both coasts and the central US. It certainly might make it easier to ship the big-iron from one coast to the other ;) -Toth From jcwren at jcwren.com Sat Jun 8 13:03:44 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:09 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I wonder what the permitting hassles, etc, would be. If you actually listed yourself as a disposal center, you might have to get hazardous waste permits. I also wonder about the economic viability of such an enterprise. People might pay to dispose of old computers if they think they'll be recycled. However, many consumers think because they paid $2500 for a system two years ago that it's still worth $1000. And if a dumpster behind the Circle-K is more convient, well, it may well wind up there. Once you have scrap (and have picked it clean, requiring a secondary warehouse and museum space), can you economically separate the chaff from the wheat? Austin Electronics has about 200 13" VGA displays in the back. They can't toss them, and no one wants to buy them. Do you accept this kind of material? If a person can't dispose the whole kit and kaboodle at one shot, they're much less likely to bother with recycling. Do you hire cheap labor and build systems for homeless people? Strip components and eBay them? Try to do metal separation? I'm not putting down the idea by any means (and I'd love to have such a place to browse), but can one reallistically make some above a subsistence-level enterprise out of it? Are there are cases that are successful? What's the operational cost of such a facility? Are you willing to ship systems? Do you have systems work shipping? I'd want to start a business I can sooner or later oversee, and not sweat next months building payment at the end of the month. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tothwolf Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 13:46 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: China bans toxic American computer junk On Sat, 8 Jun 2002, Joe wrote: > But seriously, I was talking to Gary and he said that he's thinking of > starting a computer recycling center. I'm thinking that that might not > be a bad idea for some of us that are interested in old systems. Since > the US will no longer be able to dump the stuff overseas, there should > be a big demand for people/places that will accept computers and > recycle them. In addition, we would have our pick of anything > interesting. I'd like to start something here in Houston, but I currently lack the warehouse space that would be required. It might be good to have places on both coasts and the central US. It certainly might make it easier to ship the big-iron from one coast to the other ;) -Toth From foo at siconic.com Sat Jun 8 13:21:52 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:09 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020608115501.225f3668@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Jun 2002, Joe wrote: > >"The US is the only industrialised country to have failed to ratify the > >1989 UN Basel convention which calls for a total ban on the export of > >hazardous waste." > > >No surprise there. Of course we can't blame good ole W. for this one, but > >we can blame his stupid dad. > > Why do you call him stupid? If they're willing to not only take it > but to actually BUY it then why shouldn't we sell it to them? I was referring to George Herbert Walker Bush's failure to get the UN Basel Convention (referenced above) ratified. But at any rate, why would you object to calling either Bush stupid? I find them to be completely devoid of any sense whatsoever, as their actions have proven. But I digress... > In any event, it's unfair to blame the prez for this practice. It's > the fault of the local garbage companies, recyclers, surplus companies, > computer manufacturers AND the American consumer. The President makes policy, and We The People implement it. Current policy is to move us closer to the Apocalypse so we can fulfill some moron's religious mythology. But, again, I digress... Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Jun 8 13:27:29 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:09 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Jun 2002, J.C. Wren wrote: > Once you have scrap (and have picked it clean, requiring a secondary > warehouse and museum space), can you economically separate the chaff from > the wheat? Austin Electronics has about 200 13" VGA displays in the back. > They can't toss them, and no one wants to buy them. Do you accept this kind > of material? If a person can't dispose the whole kit and kaboodle at one > shot, they're much less likely to bother with recycling. There are recycling options for CRT's and just about anything else electronic. You just have to find the right processors. > Do you hire cheap labor and build systems for homeless people? Strip > components and eBay them? Try to do metal separation? That's what volunteers are for, which is why you'd probably want to make it a not for profit, give yourself a fat salary, and do some public good in the process. > I'm not putting down the idea by any means (and I'd love to have such a > place to browse), but can one reallistically make some above a > subsistence-level enterprise out of it? Are there are cases that are > successful? What's the operational cost of such a facility? Are you YES. See http://www.accrc.org/ Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Jun 8 13:24:12 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:09 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020608114612.225f34dc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Jun 2002, Joe wrote: > But seriously, I was talking to Gary and he said that he's thinking > of starting a computer recycling center. I'm thinking that that might > not be a bad idea for some of us that are interested in old systems. > Since the US will no longer be able to dump the stuff overseas, there > should be a big demand for people/places that will accept computers and > recycle them. In addition, we would have our pick of anything > interesting. That's actually a very good idea. Because of new laws this year, the ACCRC began charging for just about everything dropped off at their center. Not only did it rescue them from the brink of financial doom, it is proving to be a growth industry. There is no place one can bring their old electronics these days without being charged. People must now pay to recycle their computers. It will prove to be one of the biggest growth industries of this decade. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 8 14:57:27 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:09 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk References: Message-ID: <001d01c20f26$b7293460$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> That whole family's both morally and intellectually "challenged," to put it in Clintonese. The old man and two sons in politics, another son in severe difficulty with the law, etc, thanks to his dealings with Silverado Savings & Loan here in Colorado ... and the ol' man willing to start the Gulf war just to distract the press from his son's trial. And then there's the swift payoff and coverup of his daughters' drinking thing ... It's a good thing they're "just" women, and even better that he (Dubya) doesn't have sons. His pop showed us all what a disaster that would be. His pop opposes the Basel convention, and he (Dubya) opposes the Kyoto treaty ... ... Neither of them understands the view the rest of the world has of the U.S. based on, among other things, the fact that the U.S. is the only nation in the world that's ever used a nuclear weapon in warfare ... and of course, "birds of a feather..." they hang with the likes of Dick Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, and, farther down the totem pole, that crookec witch, Gale Norton, of whom we Coloradoans know considerably more than the rest of the country. It's like he hand-picked all the slimy crooks from throughout the country and appointed them. you say " > The President makes policy, and We The People implement it. Current > policy is to move us closer to the Apocalypse so we can fulfill some > moron's religious mythology. " to which I add that it's Dubya's mythology, since he's the moron. The same mythology that believes it's right to rape the west coast electric rate-payers and then sweep it under the rug by bankrupting thousands with his supporters, the Enron board, then cripple US medical research by limiting the legally useable stem-cell strains to those owned by Texan companies, and then give the fattest defense boondoggle contracts to Texan firms, e.g. Lockheed. If you live in Texas, perhaps you'll benefit from what this guy does, but don't hold your breath if you don't live there. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 12:21 PM Subject: Re: China bans toxic American computer junk > On Sat, 8 Jun 2002, Joe wrote: > > > >"The US is the only industrialised country to have failed to ratify the > > >1989 UN Basel convention which calls for a total ban on the export of > > >hazardous waste." > > > > >No surprise there. Of course we can't blame good ole W. for this one, but > > >we can blame his stupid dad. > > > > Why do you call him stupid? If they're willing to not only take it > > but to actually BUY it then why shouldn't we sell it to them? > > I was referring to George Herbert Walker Bush's failure to get the UN > Basel Convention (referenced above) ratified. > > But at any rate, why would you object to calling either Bush stupid? I > find them to be completely devoid of any sense whatsoever, as their > actions have proven. > > But I digress... > > > In any event, it's unfair to blame the prez for this practice. It's > > the fault of the local garbage companies, recyclers, surplus companies, > > computer manufacturers AND the American consumer. > > The President makes policy, and We The People implement it. Current > policy is to move us closer to the Apocalypse so we can fulfill some > moron's religious mythology. > > But, again, I digress... > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sat Jun 8 14:58:53 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:09 2005 Subject: new finds :-) References: <3.0.6.16.20020608121952.0ee7ad4c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3D0261FD.A77493F1@ccp.com> Joe wrote: > > Went to a small local hamfest this morning and came home with a Z-80 trainer made by E&L Instruments (remember the Bugbooks?), a Gunnplexer cookbook, a HP-15C with manual, HP-18C with manual and four HP Solutions books, and a HeathKit Most Accurate Clock II with manuals (receives time code from WWV and sets itself automaticly. Has LED display and serial link to connect to a computer). Passed up a TRUCK LOAD of Amigas and other Commodore stuff for $10. YOU DIDN'T . . . . . AAAAARRRRGH??? > > Not bad for an hour of looking :-) > I'm going to have to give you an Amiga training course. Gary Hildebrand ST. Joseph, MO From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jun 8 15:33:36 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:09 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <001d01c20f26$b7293460$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 08, 2002 01:57:27 PM Message-ID: <200206082033.g58KXa314083@narnia.int.dittman.net> > ... The same > mythology that believes it's right to rape the west coast electric rate-payers... That's called supply & demand. The people in left coast refused all attempts to build different types of power plants, but refused to limit their growth. No surprise that they ran short on power. I don't see why they expected the same power companies they had been opposing all those years to give them cheap power. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jun 8 15:35:02 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jun 08, 2002 11:24:12 AM Message-ID: <200206082035.g58KZ2e14099@narnia.int.dittman.net> > There is no place one can bring their old electronics these days without > being charged. People must now pay to recycle their computers. It will > prove to be one of the biggest growth industries of this decade. Companies must pay to recycle their computers. Most people can just toss them in their trashcan. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jun 8 17:08:38 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20020608115501.225f3668@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020608170838.4627ea8c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:21 AM 6/8/02 -0700, you wrote: >On Sat, 8 Jun 2002, Joe wrote: > >> >"The US is the only industrialised country to have failed to ratify the >> >1989 UN Basel convention which calls for a total ban on the export of >> >hazardous waste." >> >> >No surprise there. Of course we can't blame good ole W. for this one, but >> >we can blame his stupid dad. >> >> Why do you call him stupid? If they're willing to not only take it >> but to actually BUY it then why shouldn't we sell it to them? > >I was referring to George Herbert Walker Bush's failure to get the UN >Basel Convention (referenced above) ratified. I missed something. Exactly why is it HWB's or any other American president's job to get a UN treaty ratified????? The UN is made up of some 200+ nations and it's blatantly unfair to blame any ONE country or person for the UN's failure to pass a treaty. Besides, no country needs a UN treaty to pass laws to prevent the importation of hazardius waste into it's borders. The failure to pass such laws isn't the fault of HWB, American or the UN! So let's quite passing the buck. > >But at any rate, why would you object to calling either Bush stupid? Oh I don't think they're stupid. They may be greedy, self serving and lots of other things but not stupid. I >find them to be completely devoid of any sense whatsoever, as their >actions have proven. > >But I digress... > >> In any event, it's unfair to blame the prez for this practice. It's >> the fault of the local garbage companies, recyclers, surplus companies, >> computer manufacturers AND the American consumer. > >The President makes policy, and We The People implement it. Not exactly. We don't live in a dictatorship. If the American public really wanted meaningfull recycling policies then it could be pushed through the states, Congress and/or the courts. The real problem is that US consumers are brainwashed by Madison Avenue advertisments that tell us that we MUST have the lastest, greatest, biggest, fastest, flashiest (your choice here: computer, car, house, pool, vacation, etc etc etc) and the hell with conservation, the enviroment or even simple economics. In the end, the fault isn't the prez's policy but the realities of American culture. Current >policy is to move us closer to the Apocalypse so we can fulfill some >moron's religious mythology. I can agree with that. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jun 8 16:51:07 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020608165107.4627b562@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:03 PM 6/8/02 -0400, you wrote: > I wonder what the permitting hassles, etc, would be. If you actually >listed yourself as a disposal center, you might have to get hazardous waste >permits. I suspect that you're right. You'd prpobably want to try and locate in an area that wasn't too picky about permits. In addition, you'd probably be carefull about what you did so that you didn't generate hazardous waste and have to start dealing with the EPA. I think that would quickly kill any but the largest business. > > I also wonder about the economic viability of such an enterprise. People >might pay to dispose of old computers if they think they'll be recycled. >However, many consumers think because they paid $2500 for a system two years >ago that it's still worth $1000. I know what you mean. But if you deal with busnesses they usually just want the stuff gone. Personally I wouldn't deal with individuals, I MIGHT let them drop stuff at no charge but I wouldn't buy systems (unless it's something special). Besides the unrealistic prices, it would just be too time comsuming. BUT I expect that we'll soon have to PAY to dispose of monitors and electronics just like we have to pay to dispose of auto batteries and tires and that that would encourage a lot of people to just give away the systems. And if a dumpster behind the Circle-K is >more convient, well, it may well wind up there. True but most states have laws and severe fines if you get caught dumping in someone elses dumpster. > > Once you have scrap (and have picked it clean, requiring a secondary >warehouse and museum space), can you economically separate the chaff from >the wheat? Yes but it's labor intensive. Austin Electronics has about 200 13" VGA displays in the back. >They can't toss them, and no one wants to buy them. Do you accept this kind >of material? NO! Charge a disposale fee. Just like they do when you buy new tires or a new auto battery. If a person can't dispose the whole kit and kaboodle at one >shot, they're much less likely to bother with recycling. They will if the local dump is going to charge them and the local trash hauler won't accept the stuff. That's currently the situation here with paints, batteries, tires and lots of other stuff. If you're ambitious you'd offer to pick up old systems and recycle/dispose of them at a reasonable cost. I think many folks would take advantage of that simply to avoid the hassle. > > Do you hire cheap labor and build systems for homeless people? NO! NO ONE wants those systems! It's ironic but even people with no money want the absolute lastest and greatest and they won't settle for less. Believe me, I've seen churces, big companies like Martin Marietta and even NASA try to find uses for 386/486 type systems and none of them have been successful. Strip >components and eBay them? Yes, if they contain anything worthwhile. But if you can't get X amount ($20?) then it's not worth the time and hassle. Try to do metal separation? That's what most of them do but it's labor intensive so they hire a bunch of low end workers to do the work. > > I'm not putting down the idea by any means (and I'd love to have such a >place to browse), but can one reallistically make some above a >subsistence-level enterprise out of it? Yes, I know people that do. The owner makes a good living (in fact, most of them make a VERY good living) but the workers are minimum wage types and live accordingly. But you shouldn't feel guilty about that, they'd be in the same or worse condition without your employment. Are there are cases that are >successful? Yes, I know of a number of them. What's the operational cost of such a facility? That's a good question. You need a facility with a good amount of space (not necessarily inside) and a couple of good trucks (the bigger the better) and a good forklift is very desirable. Then add dumpsters some wire baskets, some workbenches, etc for separating, storing and handling the stuff. I think that if you could locate in an area with lax zoning, work conditions, etc it would probable be very benfitial. Are you >willing to ship systems? Is the purchaser willing to pay the cost of packing and shipping? On PC systems probably not. Do you have systems work shipping? What? I'd want to >start a business I can sooner or later oversee, and not sweat next months >building payment at the end of the month. Like any other business it would take some initial capital for a building, employees (if any), and equipment. And it would take some time to get the business going and profitable. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jun 8 17:10:16 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20020608114612.225f34dc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020608171016.2aef0874@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:24 AM 6/8/02 -0700, you wrote: >On Sat, 8 Jun 2002, Joe wrote: > >> But seriously, I was talking to Gary and he said that he's thinking >> of starting a computer recycling center. I'm thinking that that might >> not be a bad idea for some of us that are interested in old systems. >> Since the US will no longer be able to dump the stuff overseas, there >> should be a big demand for people/places that will accept computers and >> recycle them. In addition, we would have our pick of anything >> interesting. > >That's actually a very good idea. Because of new laws this year, the >ACCRC began charging for just about everything dropped off at their >center. Not only did it rescue them from the brink of financial doom, it >is proving to be a growth industry. > >There is no place one can bring their old electronics these days without >being charged. People must now pay to recycle their computers. It will >prove to be one of the biggest growth industries of this decade. Hey! For once, Sellam and I agree on something! :-) Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jun 8 17:22:27 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: new finds :-) In-Reply-To: <3D0261FD.A77493F1@ccp.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20020608121952.0ee7ad4c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020608172227.2aef7080@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:58 PM 6/8/02 -0500, you wrote: >Joe wrote: >> >> Went to a small local hamfest this morning and came home with a Z-80 trainer made by E&L Instruments (remember the Bugbooks?), a Gunnplexer cookbook, a HP-15C with manual, HP-18C with manual and four HP Solutions books, and a HeathKit Most Accurate Clock II with manuals (receives time code from WWV and sets itself automaticly. Has LED display and serial link to connect to a computer). Passed up a TRUCK LOAD of Amigas and other Commodore stuff for $10. > >YOU DIDN'T . . . . . AAAAARRRRGH??? heaven, and shouting out, Here I come . . . . > I'm afraid I did. Not only at least three Amigos and a couple of Commie 64s but a TON of books and SW. I didn't have a vehicle big enough to carry it all and I don't have a place to keep it. The OL is starting to complain about the house filling up again. >> >> Not bad for an hour of looking :-) >> >I'm going to have to give you an Amiga training course. Yes you are. I need to find out what's worth saving and what's not. I simply don't know that much about Amigos. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jun 8 17:35:05 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <200206082035.g58KZ2e14099@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020608173505.2aef9348@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> >> There is no place one can bring their old electronics these days without >> being charged. People must now pay to recycle their computers. It will >> prove to be one of the biggest growth industries of this decade. At 03:35 PM 6/8/02 -0500, Eric wrote: > >Companies must pay to recycle their computers. Most people >can just toss them in their trashcan. True. So far! But now that China has quite accepting e-scrap we'll soon be awash in it and very soon the trift stores, etc will have more than they can handle and then when they become a plague in the landfills the various agencies will impose a fee to dispose of them exactly as they do for batteries, tires and other items. My guess is that by this time next year we'll see the beginnings of various disposal/haz mat fees. And I further predict that they will be widespread within three years (when has the government ever refused a new source of revenue!) Joe PS Isn't this an interesting twist to the list? We're supposed to be talking about acquiring old computers and here we are talking about disposal problems! I guess it's a sign of how prevalent they've become. From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 8 16:51:21 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk References: <200206082035.g58KZ2e14099@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <001901c20f36$a08ad960$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> There's a substantial fine for doing that here in Denver, just as there is for disposing of old paint, motor oil, and other unfriendly substances. That's why I'm glad I disposed of those old CRT's and terminals when I did. Of course, now I wish I'd kept one more of the terminals. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Dittman" To: Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 2:35 PM Subject: Re: China bans toxic American computer junk > > There is no place one can bring their old electronics these days without > > being charged. People must now pay to recycle their computers. It will > > prove to be one of the biggest growth industries of this decade. > > Companies must pay to recycle their computers. Most people > can just toss them in their trashcan. > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ > From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sat Jun 8 17:01:18 2002 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <001d01c20f26$b7293460$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <200206082201.RAA18184@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > His pop opposes the Basel convention, and he (Dubya) opposes the Kyoto treaty "As Bjorn Lomborg, author of The Skeptical Environmentalist points out, under the most rigorous adherence to Kyoto, atmospheric temperature will increase by 3.5 degrees Farenheit by 2100. Without Kyoto, we'll get the same temperature increase by 2094. Kyoto saves us 6 whole years, and at a staggering cost of $350 Billion to $900 Billion per year. That's insanity. For a one time cost of just $200 Billion, developed nations could provide clean drinking water and sanitation for every human on earth, saving two million lives per year." - as quoted from "The Week" From red at bears.org Sat Jun 8 17:01:50 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Jun 2002, Gene Buckle wrote: > I can actually top that. In the early 90's, I used to do some software > work for an electronics store called Supertronix. Interesting. I don't suppose that's the same Supertronix, near the Southcenter Mall in Tukwila, WA? They're still around and still have the same sensibility. In fact, I just bought a 240-degree 5-pin DIN plug there the other day. They rock yea verily. ok r. From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Sat Jun 8 13:08:03 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020608115501.225f3668@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020608140803.00e24bf0@pop1.epm.net.co> At 11:55 AM 6/8/02, you wrote: > In any event, it's unfair to blame the prez for this practice. It's the fault of the local garbage companies, recyclers, surplus companies, computer manufacturers AND the American consumer. > > Joe Of all people in the U.S., one would certainly expect the prez to be environmentally responsible. It is one of his duties, I believe. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Sat Jun 8 17:44:28 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <200206082033.g58KXa314083@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <001d01c20f26$b7293460$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020608184428.00e296b4@pop1.epm.net.co> At 03:33 PM 6/8/02 -0500, you wrote: >That's called supply & demand. Supply and demand only set the prices in a perfect competition scheme, which CA wasn't. CALPEX was a seller's "market". It's always been that way in CA; just research Hetch-Hetchy and PG&E and you'll find a century's worth of abuse of the consumers by the utilities. > The people in left coast refused >all attempts to build different types of power plants, but refused >to limit their growth. No surprise that they ran short on power. >I don't see why they expected the same power companies they had >been opposing all those years to give them cheap power. Those power companies had consistently shown that they invested their money with poor judgment and almost always resulting in cost overruns, greater than expected environmental damage, costly stranded assets... A lot of it was the companies' fault, not the consumers'. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jun 8 17:55:15 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > I actually got into an argument with a local Radio Shack weenie over a > > DB-15 hood. Little snot had the gall to tell me that if it wasn't in > > their catalog, it didn't exist and I MUST be confused. I told him he > > needed to return to McDonald's where his limited cognitive skills would be > > more fully appriciated. Fsckwit. *sigh* > Well, they USED TO (~1982?) carry DE sized hoods (for 9 and 15 pin), and > DB-25 hoods. > Don't think that I've seen a DB-15 hood there. I owe you an apology. When dealing with Radio Shack, using the CORRECT name for it will obviate any possibility of success. The only possible way to get what you want at some Radio Shacks would be to use INCORRECT names for the parts. From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Sat Jun 8 17:49:29 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <200206082201.RAA18184@caesar.cs.umn.edu> References: <001d01c20f26$b7293460$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020608184929.00e29e98@pop1.epm.net.co> At 05:01 PM 6/8/02 -0500, you wrote: >> >> His pop opposes the Basel convention, and he (Dubya) opposes the Kyoto treaty > >"As Bjorn Lomborg, author of The Skeptical Environmentalist points out, >under the most rigorous adherence to Kyoto, atmospheric temperature will >increase by 3.5 degrees Farenheit by 2100. Without Kyoto, we'll get the same >temperature increase by 2094. This guy Lomborg (a statistician by training, not a world climate scientist) has largely been proved illiterate in the field of climate change physics and facetious too. Scientists (even those who do oppose the conclusions of the majority regarding climate change) do not take him seriously. >Kyoto saves us 6 whole years, and at a staggering cost of $350 Billion >to $900 Billion per year. That's insanity. For a one time cost of just $200 >Billion, developed nations could provide clean drinking water and sanitation >for every human on earth, saving two million lives per year." > > - as quoted from "The Week" Pretty bad for the credibility of "the week", I'm afraid. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jun 8 17:52:59 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020608173505.2aef9348@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Jun 08, 2002 05:35:05 PM Message-ID: <200206082252.g58MqxU14427@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >Companies must pay to recycle their computers. Most people > >can just toss them in their trashcan. > > > True. So far! > > But now that China has quite accepting e-scrap we'll soon be awash in it and very soon the trift stores, etc will have more than they can handle and then when they become a plague in the landfills the various agencies will impose a fee to dispose of them exactly as they do for batteries, tires and other items. My guess is that by this time next year we'll see the beginnings of various disposal/haz mat fees. And I further predict that they will be widespread within three years (when has the government ever refused a new source of revenue!) We aren't supposed to, but a lot of people throw away stuff they shouldn't anyway (esp. batteries). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jun 8 17:54:38 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <001901c20f36$a08ad960$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 08, 2002 03:51:21 PM Message-ID: <200206082254.g58Mscb14437@narnia.int.dittman.net> > There's a substantial fine for doing that here in Denver, just as there is for > disposing of old paint, motor oil, and other unfriendly substances. That's > why I'm glad I disposed of those old CRT's and terminals when I did. Of > course, now I wish I'd kept one more of the terminals. Only if you get caught. I've seen people throw away a lot of stuff they shouldn't, and I've seen stuff people have left in parking lots and street corners so they wouldn't have to properly dispose of them. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jun 8 17:59:24 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020608184428.00e296b4@pop1.epm.net.co> from "Carlos Murillo" at Jun 08, 2002 06:44:28 PM Message-ID: <200206082259.g58MxO414468@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >That's called supply & demand. > > Supply and demand only set the prices in a perfect competition scheme, > which CA wasn't. CALPEX was a seller's "market". It's always > been that way in CA; just research Hetch-Hetchy and PG&E and > you'll find a century's worth of abuse of the consumers by the > utilities. California voters approved deregulation. What did they expect would happen? There's not enough power generation in California, so the prices go up. > > The people in left coast refused > >all attempts to build different types of power plants, but refused > >to limit their growth. No surprise that they ran short on power. > >I don't see why they expected the same power companies they had > >been opposing all those years to give them cheap power. > > Those power companies had consistently shown that they invested > their money with poor judgment and almost always resulting > in cost overruns, greater than expected environmental damage, > costly stranded assets... A lot of it was the companies' > fault, not the consumers'. Those same companies have built the same types of power plants in other states without any problems. Most of the perceived problems were the environmentalists blowing things out of proportion and making things up. The citizens in California refused to allow the power plants to be built, and (surprise!) they have a power shortage, while the citizens in other states let the power plants be built, and (no surprise) we have enough power. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 8 18:04:26 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk References: <3.0.2.32.20020608140803.00e24bf0@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <004001c20f40$d66bae60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Environmental? He can't even pronounce it. What's more, he's not demonstrated himself to be responsible in any way at all. I wonder how carefully his pals at Enron disposed of their shredded documents? I'm sure the accountants were careful enough. It's not a business I'd want to be in right now, recycling computer hardware, with the pendulum swinging in the direction that the pres is resisting. Once the extremists overcome the cabinet's barely-a-quorum of grey cells, the rush will be on. What troubles me is that it should actually turn out to be illegal transporting what's classified as hazardous materials around in your privately owned vehicle, since a spill could result in God knows what (probably nothing, but you know how the extremists will put it) and that will mean that if you own a recycling facility, you won't be able simply to dispose of or appropriate whatever you want. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlos Murillo" To: Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 12:08 PM Subject: Re: China bans toxic American computer junk > At 11:55 AM 6/8/02, you wrote: > > In any event, it's unfair to blame the prez for this practice. It's the > fault of the local garbage companies, recyclers, surplus companies, > computer manufacturers AND the American consumer. > > > > Joe > > Of all people in the U.S., one would certainly expect the prez > to be environmentally responsible. It is one of his duties, > I believe. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 8 18:16:12 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk References: <001d01c20f26$b7293460$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3.0.2.32.20020608184428.00e296b4@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <004601c20f42$7ae0b480$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It's just another set of abusive practices, typical of what happens when a closed set of interests controls the market in a commodity the public really believes they need. more below ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlos Murillo" To: Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 4:44 PM Subject: Re: China bans toxic American computer junk > At 03:33 PM 6/8/02 -0500, you wrote: > >That's called supply & demand. > You wouldn't say that if it had been YOUR money, either wasted on the excesses of the "free-market-captialism" practiced by the power-middle-men, who really produced nothing other than waste and really did nothing but steal, first from their victims, and later from their own help. > > Supply and demand only set the prices in a perfect competition scheme, > which CA wasn't. CALPEX was a seller's "market". It's always > been that way in CA; just research Hetch-Hetchy and PG&E and > you'll find a century's worth of abuse of the consumers by the > utilities. > > > The people in left coast refused > >all attempts to build different types of power plants, but refused > >to limit their growth. No surprise that they ran short on power. > >I don't see why they expected the same power companies they had > >been opposing all those years to give them cheap power. > If it's the LEFT coast, you must be in the South. If you were from the North, the West coast would be the Right coast, and the East coast would be the Wrong coast, Right? You're right about the stupid consumption habits. It's the result of lower rates per kwh for more kwh's. If 10x the amount of power cost 10^10 as much people would behave differently. I'd get behind a rate schedule that reflected n^(n^2) rates so the megacorp that uses 1000 times as much power as the little homeowner would have to pay 10^1000 as much for every kwh he uses. I'd also get behind that for gasoline rationing. > > Those power companies had consistently shown that they invested > their money with poor judgment and almost always resulting > in cost overruns, greater than expected environmental damage, > costly stranded assets... A lot of it was the companies' > fault, not the consumers'. > That's because they're charged with managing an asset that belongs to them but selling a commodity that doesn't belong to them at all. > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 8 18:22:46 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk References: <001d01c20f26$b7293460$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3.0.2.32.20020608184929.00e29e98@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <004c01c20f43$65ef4400$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlos Murillo" To: Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 4:49 PM Subject: Re: China bans toxic American computer junk > At 05:01 PM 6/8/02 -0500, you wrote: > >> > >> His pop opposes the Basel convention, and he (Dubya) opposes the Kyoto > treaty > > > >"As Bjorn Lomborg, author of The Skeptical Environmentalist points out, > >under the most rigorous adherence to Kyoto, atmospheric temperature will > >increase by 3.5 degrees Farenheit by 2100. Without Kyoto, we'll get the same > >temperature increase by 2094. > > This guy Lomborg (a statistician by training, not a world climate > scientist) has largely been proved illiterate in the field of > climate change physics and facetious too. Scientists (even those > who do oppose the conclusions of the majority regarding climate change) > do not take him seriously. > What folks want to ignore is that most environmental processes take place at a rate proportional to the amount present. If you think back to your first year of calculus, that means it's an exponential. What that suggests is that while we have a 3.5 degree increase over the next century, we're probably looking at 40 degrees or so over the next, and even with moderation protocols in place, it will take a couple of additional centuries, by which time all the guys deciding not to do it right now will, of course, be dead, to get the process reversed if it's even possible. If they can't, then perhaps we'll have an environment like Venus' before the next millenium. Not even the cockroaches will survive that. > > >Kyoto saves us 6 whole years, and at a staggering cost of $350 Billion > >to $900 Billion per year. That's insanity. For a one time cost of just $200 > >Billion, developed nations could provide clean drinking water and sanitation > >for every human on earth, saving two million lives per year." > I thihk there's a little more involved than that ... > > > - as quoted from "The Week" > > Pretty bad for the credibility of "the week", I'm afraid. > > carlos. > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 8 18:24:56 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk References: <200206082254.g58Mscb14437@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <005801c20f43$b34404c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> What keeps me from making my own PCB's at home is that they caught one fellow about half a mile from here, who'd dumped his waste chemicals in the toilet. He had to sell out to pay the fine. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Dittman" To: Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 4:54 PM Subject: Re: China bans toxic American computer junk > > There's a substantial fine for doing that here in Denver, just as there is for > > disposing of old paint, motor oil, and other unfriendly substances. That's > > why I'm glad I disposed of those old CRT's and terminals when I did. Of > > course, now I wish I'd kept one more of the terminals. > > Only if you get caught. I've seen people throw away a lot of > stuff they shouldn't, and I've seen stuff people have left in > parking lots and street corners so they wouldn't have to properly > dispose of them. > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 8 18:33:17 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk References: <200206082259.g58MxO414468@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <005e01c20f44$de3b0d80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> When was the last time you heard of any of them building a power plant? Enron certainly never built any. They only invested in "real" resources when their execs could get a big enough bonus for doing it. I'm sure there's enough blame to go around, though. The excesses typical of American consumers, to wit, the current craze for gas-guzzling SUV's, despite the poor safety record and terrible pollution and fuel economy of the most popular models, certainly contribute to the problem. Hey ... all you heavy-metal computing freaks ... how about converting all your logic to CMOS? That will save you each about $1k per month on power, won't it? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Dittman" To: Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 4:59 PM Subject: Re: China bans toxic American computer junk > > >That's called supply & demand. > > > > Supply and demand only set the prices in a perfect competition scheme, > > which CA wasn't. CALPEX was a seller's "market". It's always > > been that way in CA; just research Hetch-Hetchy and PG&E and > > you'll find a century's worth of abuse of the consumers by the > > utilities. > > California voters approved deregulation. What did they expect > would happen? There's not enough power generation in California, > so the prices go up. > > > > The people in left coast refused > > >all attempts to build different types of power plants, but refused > > >to limit their growth. No surprise that they ran short on power. > > >I don't see why they expected the same power companies they had > > >been opposing all those years to give them cheap power. > > > > Those power companies had consistently shown that they invested > > their money with poor judgment and almost always resulting > > in cost overruns, greater than expected environmental damage, > > costly stranded assets... A lot of it was the companies' > > fault, not the consumers'. > > Those same companies have built the same types of power plants > in other states without any problems. Most of the perceived > problems were the environmentalists blowing things out of > proportion and making things up. The citizens in California > refused to allow the power plants to be built, and (surprise!) > they have a power shortage, while the citizens in other states > let the power plants be built, and (no surprise) we have enough > power. > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ > From jfoust at threedee.com Sat Jun 8 18:48:33 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20020608114612.225f34dc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020608184700.03280c70@pc> At 11:24 AM 6/8/2002 -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: >That's actually a very good idea. Because of new laws this year, the >ACCRC began charging for just about everything dropped off at their >center. Not only did it rescue them from the brink of financial doom, it >is proving to be a growth industry. Yes, especially because of businesses that regularly need to dispose of computers in the proper way, not to mention waste pickup services who will begin to refuse monitors and high-tech scrap. - John From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Jun 8 15:13:11 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] ancient transistors found! In-Reply-To: <3D019511.744EC928@ccp.com> Message-ID: <20020609000814.BFLO14183.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > > What era that transistors were used? 1960's? > > > > This one is way before MY TIME. :-( ) > > > > Cheers, > > > > Wizard > > Bolt stud?? sounds like a TO36 . . looks like a big round doorknob with > emitter and base leads in a straight line with the stud > (case=collector). Bolt stud is big pin, two golden solder lugs, and smaller case pin in a "T" arranagement w/ stud and gold pins in straight line. Yes, that what this case style you had described. The unusual case style that I ever first saw strikes me as rather odd design especially that welded seam. Very "russian-like" style. > Most of that case style were PNP germanium > transistors, used in car radio output stages, and some old two-way radio > T-power B+ supplies. Being Ge, they usually weren't too reliable, and > quite prone to failure. True. I heard that germanium transistors quits functioning when too hot even hot water before boiling point is enough. But germanium diodes IS still in use in automotive alternators. What would put in that certain years range when that ADY26 transistors commonly used back then when products were in production using that ADY26 transistors? Not counting the years for those as repair parts in production even that equipment using them is not in production. > Gary Hildebrand > St. Joseph, MO Cheers, Wizard From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jun 8 19:27:45 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <200206082252.g58MqxU14427@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Jun 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > We aren't supposed to, but a lot of people throw away stuff they > shouldn't anyway (esp. batteries). Speaking of which, I have quite a few pounds of nicads I need to get recycled. Can anyone here recommend a company for that? -Toth From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 8 19:00:08 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] ancient transistors found! In-Reply-To: <20020607223139.VVXH9770.tomts24-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Jun 7, 2 06:36:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1126 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020609/8ac51316/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 8 19:30:16 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jun 7, 2 09:55:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1055 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020609/abce1552/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 8 19:12:10 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: [OT] measuring DC wall wart In-Reply-To: <001901c20e85$959f9ce0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 7, 2 06:44:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1133 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020609/4e805ccb/attachment.ksh From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jun 8 20:20:39 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: Anyone have a data sheet on the MC3242? Message-ID: <20020609012039.88596.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> I'm stripping interesting parts off of these stat mux boards that I recently got around the corner - lots of socketed 6502s and 65c02s, 2532s and the like. Many of the boards have a 24-pin DIP MC3242 which I can find little about - Google only gives me one meaningful hit that it's a "Motorola Mux and Refresh". I'm trying to determine if it's worth desoldering any. I'm currently using a hot-air desolderer, so it's not a _lot_ of effort, but, for example, I'm not bothering to pull the popcorn TTL parts, just memory and "interesting" parts. So... anyone have any information on the MC3242 and why I might want to save a couple dozen of them? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jun 8 20:30:49 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 (was Re: [CCTECH] New Finds This Week) In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020608111650.00e22d2c@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <20020609013049.89099.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Carlos Murillo wrote: > At 10:27 PM 6/6/02 -0500, you wrote: > >2. 4-Mac SE/30's; > > SE/30's with network adapter and enough memory are a joy; Indeed. > you can use them as general-purpose enet terminals with > NCSA Telnet (with as many as 8 windows I think) or you can > run netBSD on them. I have one (got the ethernet off of a IIsi that was $5 at the Uni Surplus depot) I haven't considered NetBSD, though. I _do_ have a couple of sets of 30-pin 16MB SIMMs - 128MB in an SE/30 would be fine. :-) The only complaint I would have is the size of the monitor... Kinda hard to have multiple windows open and useful. X on mono isn't any fun, either. Makes it hard to play xmille ;-) -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From foo at siconic.com Sat Jun 8 20:49:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <200206082035.g58KZ2e14099@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Jun 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > There is no place one can bring their old electronics these days without > > being charged. People must now pay to recycle their computers. It will > > prove to be one of the biggest growth industries of this decade. > > Companies must pay to recycle their computers. Most people > can just toss them in their trashcan. Maybe where you live, but not so any longer in California and a handful of other states, and soon to be the norm in ALL states (so dump everything you can forsee not wanting in the next couple of years now to avoid the charges). CRTs are deemed to be toxic waste in California, along with a host of other consumer electronics. And I really don't want to hear some weenie sneering about California's hippyish environmental policies. This is coming to your state EPA soon. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Jun 8 20:52:16 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020608170838.4627ea8c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Jun 2002, Joe wrote: > I missed something. Exactly why is it HWB's or any other American > president's job to get a UN treaty ratified????? The UN is made up of > some 200+ nations and it's blatantly unfair to blame any ONE country or > person for the UN's failure to pass a treaty. Besides, no country needs a > UN treaty to pass laws to prevent the importation of hazardius waste > into it's borders. The failure to pass such laws isn't the fault of HWB, > American or the UN! So let's quite passing the buck. I will say this and no more: It is in large part because of our current president's actions, and the legacy that his predecessors left behind, that "they" hate us. > Oh I don't think they're stupid. They may be greedy, self serving and > lots of other things but not stupid. One definition of stupid: "Yes, global warming is real, and yes, global warming is a problem, but we think we should just adapt to it instead of doing anything about it." Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Jun 8 16:58:53 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] ancient transistors found! In-Reply-To: References: <20020607223139.VVXH9770.tomts24-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Jun 7, 2 06:36:33 pm Message-ID: <20020609015355.DKHA12468.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > > Here's this odd transistor only marking on it is: > > > > ADY26 > > >From web search, it is TO3 package. Felt like solid tin > > plated copper w/ bolt stud. > > It's not TO3. TO3 is that diamond-shaped package, as used for the 2N3055 > (and if you've not seen one of those, you've never done any electronics > ;-)). The ADY26 is in a TO36 package. >:-P Yes, I have seen TO3 packages in regular and small sizes. In fact that dates me from that era (born '72 and while growing up dissassembling old thrown out stuff had those package.) Doesn't TO3 was also used in '60s electronic equipments as well? May can't be. This package style seems to be '70s onwards era and IS still in use. Thanks for the correction on that TO36. website is wrong. :-( ) snip > > > What it is usually used in what equipment? > > An output transistor for a stereo amplifier? > > > > > What era that transistors were used? 1960's? > > I think so. Towers doesn't give dates, but it's in another late 1960's > databook of mine (and not in the early 1970's edition from what I can see). Woah... that's OLD and *before* my time! Didn't expect that old because this is one I didn't seen before so I suspected. > -tony Cheers, Wizard From foo at siconic.com Sat Jun 8 20:56:57 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <200206082201.RAA18184@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Jun 2002, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > "As Bjorn Lomborg, author of The Skeptical Environmentalist points out, > under the most rigorous adherence to Kyoto, atmospheric temperature will > increase by 3.5 degrees Farenheit by 2100. Without Kyoto, we'll get the same > temperature increase by 2094. > > Kyoto saves us 6 whole years, and at a staggering cost of $350 Billion > to $900 Billion per year. That's insanity. For a one time cost of just $200 > Billion, developed nations could provide clean drinking water and sanitation > for every human on earth, saving two million lives per year." So I guess the solution is simple: let several billion people die off so Earth can be brought back to equilibrium. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jun 8 21:02:40 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Jun 08, 2002 07:27:45 PM Message-ID: <200206090202.g5922eH15017@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > We aren't supposed to, but a lot of people throw away stuff they > > shouldn't anyway (esp. batteries). > > Speaking of which, I have quite a few pounds of nicads I need to get > recycled. Can anyone here recommend a company for that? I've seen battery recycling boxes around different stores. I think one of them was Target. Try chains like that. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jun 8 21:08:10 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <005e01c20f44$de3b0d80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 08, 2002 05:33:17 PM Message-ID: <200206090208.g5928BJ15028@narnia.int.dittman.net> > When was the last time you heard of any of them building a power plant? Enron > certainly never built any. They only invested in "real" resources when their > execs could get a big enough bonus for doing it. There are several recent-vintage power plants in Texas. > I'm sure there's enough blame to go around, though. The excesses typical of > American consumers, to wit, the current craze for gas-guzzling SUV's, despite > the poor safety record and terrible pollution and fuel economy of the most > popular models, certainly contribute to the problem. The most ironic things is most of the biggest environmentalists I've seen either drive a big SUV or a powerly-maintained old car that has lots of smoke coming out the tailpipe. Another ironic thing is the reformulated gas the environmentalists insisted would cut pollution. The gas caused engine parts to deteriorate (they insisted there wouldn't be any harm to engines) and increased pollution as the reformulated gas was less efficient and caused an increase in consumption. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jun 8 21:15:11 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:10 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <004601c20f42$7ae0b480$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 08, 2002 05:16:12 PM Message-ID: <200206090215.g592FBM15055@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > >That's called supply & demand. > > > You wouldn't say that if it had been YOUR money, either wasted on the excesses > of the "free-market-captialism" practiced by the power-middle-men, who really > produced nothing other than waste and really did nothing but steal, first from > their victims, and later from their own help. I haven't been running around for years voting against power plants. I also refuse to live in California, which is over- populated anyway. The constant water shortage is a good example. > If it's the LEFT coast, you must be in the South. If you were from the North, > the West coast would be the Right coast, and the East coast would be the Wrong > coast, Right? You're right about the stupid consumption habits. It's the > result of lower rates per kwh for more kwh's. If 10x the amount of power cost > 10^10 as much people would behave differently. I'd get behind a rate schedule > that reflected n^(n^2) rates so the megacorp that uses 1000 times as much > power as the little homeowner would have to pay 10^1000 as much for every kwh > he uses. I'd also get behind that for gasoline rationing. Most of the people I know call California the left coast, both in the north and south (except for the liberals). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From rdd at rddavis.org Sat Jun 8 21:49:18 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: References: <200206082201.RAA18184@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20020609024918.GB32524@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Sellam Ismail, from writings of Sat, Jun 08, 2002 at 06:56:57PM -0700: > So I guess the solution is simple: let several billion people die off so > Earth can be brought back to equilibrium. Sort of... only the solution can be less painful: All people need to do is stop having so many babies. This is why I support the "W.C. Fields Memorial Child Tax Bill," a progressively incrementing tax on children. One child, a somewhat low tax, such as an education tax. Two children, a higher tax is applied. Three children, a much higher tax is applied, etc. No more tax deductions for dependent children; instead, allow childless people to have generous deductions for pets, computer collections (if all of the computers are named), plants, etc. It might not hurt to outlaw the discouragement of birth control and outlaw any religious dogma which encourages people to have children. Give tax breaks to childless people and don't tax them for any costs associated with children (e.g. education, health care, etc.) Etc.... In other words, reduce the population fairly quickly through a decline in the birth rate. Simple, humane and effective, what? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From louiss at gate.net Sat Jun 8 21:40:16 2002 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: Anyone have a data sheet on the MC3242? In-Reply-To: <20020609012039.88596.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: According to the Motorola Microcomputer Data Library (1978): "The MC3242A is an address multiplexer and refresh counter for 16-pin 16K dynamic RAMs that require a 128-cycle refresh... such as the MCM4116." Louis On Sat, 8 Jun 2002 18:20:39 -0700 (PDT), Ethan Dicks wrote: #So... anyone have any information on the MC3242 and why I might want #to save a couple dozen of them? From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jun 8 21:45:15 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: Anyone have a data sheet on the MC3242? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020609024515.7479.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Louis Schulman wrote: > According to the Motorola Microcomputer Data Library (1978): > > "The MC3242A is an address multiplexer and refresh counter for 16-pin > 16K dynamic RAMs that require a 128-cycle refresh... such as the > MCM4116." Well that certainly makes sense. A bunch of these boards have 4116s. Seeing as all the 4116-based-6502 designs I've seen are refreshed through discrete TTL, I guess I don't need to save these. I still might grab a few, just in case. I have pulled a few 4116s - probably have to test them in a dynamic PET or something similar. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 8 22:27:40 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: [OT] measuring DC wall wart References: Message-ID: <001901c20f65$9c91a760$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well, perhaps you can find out whether or not a given wall-wart can do what the label says, in general, I've found they don't, even within 10%. With the fixture I suggested, which takes about 10 minutes to build, maybe 30 if you do it right, and I agree that a heatsink, in this case a big one, is indicated, not because there are wall-warts that might damage the 3055, but because a nice 5"x8" heatsink makes a handy platform to which to attach things, (TO-3's are rated, typically for 80W, and wall warts aren't.) so you can use a fairly large 10-turn pot with a vernier or the like, and a big P-clamp to tie it down. You also get a place to which to screw the barrier strip you will need. If you want to be really fancy you can even include individual binding posts. As for replacing one component, a resistor, with three or more, I'd point out that the resistor approach will, at best, provide an approximation with the one and only wall wart in the universe, if they've built it yet, that actually does what the sticker says. The three components I mentioned give you a tool that will tell you what the voltage is at a given current, and what the current is at a given voltage, either of which you can measure. If you have lots of AC wall-warts ( of the 40 or so that I have in the box downstairs, only about three are AC types.) you need simply put a pridge rectifier at the collector side of your circuit and you're on your way. When you're done you have a tool that will measure many different wall-warts, not just one. What's more, you don't have to go looking for that one resistor that almost works. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [OT] measuring DC wall wart > > > > It seems to me that you can take a common TO-3 NPN transistor, e.g. the > > 2N3055, or something of that sort, drive its base from a pot between the > > positive and negative voltage, and put a low-valued resistor, e.g. 0.5 ohms or > > so in the emitter-to-ground path, you have a programmable current sink. If > > True, but why do you insist on over-complicating everything. You want to > take a circuit consisting of one component (the resistor) that will > work for AC and DC warts, and which is relatively robust agianst > overloads and eeplace it with a circuit containing 3 components (at > least), that only works for DC (and is polarity sensitive), and which > can burn out easily if overloaded. That 2N3055 is going to need a > heatsink as well... > > You can make power resistors from stuff you find lying about the house > (old heating elements, etc -- heck you can even use a jar of salt water > with 2 electrodes in it at a pinch -- electrolysis is a problem if you > use it for any length of time on DC, but it will act as a power resistor > for long enough to test a PSU). Not everyone has 2N3055s lying about. I > do, but... > > -tony > > From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sat Jun 8 22:27:04 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack References: Message-ID: <3D02CB08.3C88EE3B@ccp.com> Tony Duell wrote: > > > You basically hit at the heart of the matter. The reality is that US > > society on the whole does not do hacking at a hardware level anymore > > (which I suspect is the case in other parts of the world) and Radio Shack > It used to be that we encouraged people to learn and do. > > > Now we encourage people to buy and expend. > > Any suggestions as to how these trends can be reversed? > Thanks Tony . . . . The last big electronics boom started with WWII surplus and a gentleman named Howard Anthony who started manufacturing kits. Even simple things can still be built, and from those beginnings we can hatch a new generation of hardware hackers/builders. There is nothing like building something from scratch, and it works firt time out; if it doesn't, figuring out what the problem is. Can't get that from calling 800 numbers and reciting your VISA and MC numbers over the phone. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 8 22:31:42 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: Anyone have a data sheet on the MC3242? References: <20020609012039.88596.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001f01c20f66$2daa1fc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It's a 7-bit mux and refresh counter, and, if you ask me, it's a waste of silicon. I used lots of 'em over the years and it isn't really that valuable. If you have an application (one or two Intel Multibus-1 DRAM boards used 'em). The 3242 is just a 7-bit mux and a 7-bit counter, with controls. It's useful only if you specifically need it. I prefer to use normal muxes when I'm reworking old troubled DRAM circuits. If you really want the details, perhaps I can scan 'em for you. The 3242, BTW, is not a MOT original, being an Intel/MMI design. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 7:20 PM Subject: Anyone have a data sheet on the MC3242? > > I'm stripping interesting parts off of these stat mux boards > that I recently got around the corner - lots of socketed 6502s > and 65c02s, 2532s and the like. Many of the boards have a 24-pin > DIP MC3242 which I can find little about - Google only gives me > one meaningful hit that it's a "Motorola Mux and Refresh". I'm > trying to determine if it's worth desoldering any. I'm currently > using a hot-air desolderer, so it's not a _lot_ of effort, but, > for example, I'm not bothering to pull the popcorn TTL parts, > just memory and "interesting" parts. > > So... anyone have any information on the MC3242 and why I might want > to save a couple dozen of them? > > -ethan > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 8 22:36:12 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk References: <200206090208.g5928BJ15028@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <003c01c20f66$cd4c3680$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> How recent would that be? Was it pre-Enron? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Dittman" To: Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 8:08 PM Subject: Re: China bans toxic American computer junk > > When was the last time you heard of any of them building a power plant? Enron > > certainly never built any. They only invested in "real" resources when their > > execs could get a big enough bonus for doing it. > > There are several recent-vintage power plants in Texas. > > > I'm sure there's enough blame to go around, though. The excesses typical of > > American consumers, to wit, the current craze for gas-guzzling SUV's, despite > > the poor safety record and terrible pollution and fuel economy of the most > > popular models, certainly contribute to the problem. > > The most ironic things is most of the biggest environmentalists I've > seen either drive a big SUV or a powerly-maintained old car that has > lots of smoke coming out the tailpipe. > > Another ironic thing is the reformulated gas the environmentalists > insisted would cut pollution. The gas caused engine parts to > deteriorate (they insisted there wouldn't be any harm to engines) > and increased pollution as the reformulated gas was less efficient > and caused an increase in consumption. > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ > From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jun 8 22:40:15 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <003c01c20f66$cd4c3680$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 08, 2002 09:36:12 PM Message-ID: <200206090340.g593eFB15311@narnia.int.dittman.net> > How recent would that be? Was it pre-Enron? Do you mean pre-Enron failure? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 8 22:44:28 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk References: <200206090215.g592FBM15055@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <004201c20f67$f51d9540$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well, you may be onto something there. I've never been considered either a liberal or a Democrat, and since the 1960 election, I've never voted for a Democrat except for Al Gore. That was not a vote FOR the Democrat, BTW. more below ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Dittman" To: Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 8:15 PM Subject: Re: China bans toxic American computer junk > > > >That's called supply & demand. > > > > > You wouldn't say that if it had been YOUR money, either wasted on the excesses > > of the "free-market-captialism" practiced by the power-middle-men, who really > > produced nothing other than waste and really did nothing but steal, first from > > their victims, and later from their own help. > > I haven't been running around for years voting against power > plants. I also refuse to live in California, which is over- > populated anyway. The constant water shortage is a good example. > I don't support Califorism either. In fact, the only bumper sticker I've ever carried around on my car said, "Don't Californicate Colorado." The West-coast notion that you can legislate good sense is hopefully dead there, though it lives on here. I'm hoping something miraculous happens here pretty soon. Unfortunately we get 2 Californians in for every one that leaves to go back there. Back in the '50's it was the Texans. I don't know which is worse. > > > If it's the LEFT coast, you must be in the South. If you were from the North, > > the West coast would be the Right coast, and the East coast would be the Wrong > > coast, Right? You're right about the stupid consumption habits. It's the > > result of lower rates per kwh for more kwh's. If 10x the amount of power cost > > 10^10 as much people would behave differently. I'd get behind a rate schedule > > that reflected n^(n^2) rates so the megacorp that uses 1000 times as much > > power as the little homeowner would have to pay 10^1000 as much for every kwh > > he uses. I'd also get behind that for gasoline rationing. > > Most of the people I know call California the left coast, both in > the north and south (except for the liberals). > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 8 22:47:04 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk References: <200206082201.RAA18184@caesar.cs.umn.edu> <20020609024918.GB32524@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <004c01c20f68$5206fbc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I think Johnathan Swift was right on target with his "Modest Proposal." If we'd provide welfare mom's with support for one child and subtract support for 1.5 children for each additional child born thereafter, we'd get the effect that's required. What's more, if we'd let the illegal immigrants we deport each year get off the plane before it lands instead of after, they'd probably not be as anxious to come back. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 8:49 PM Subject: Re: China bans toxic American computer junk > Quothe Sellam Ismail, from writings of Sat, Jun 08, 2002 at 06:56:57PM -0700: > > So I guess the solution is simple: let several billion people die off so > > Earth can be brought back to equilibrium. > > Sort of... only the solution can be less painful: > > All people need to do is stop having so many babies. This is why I > support the "W.C. Fields Memorial Child Tax Bill," a progressively > incrementing tax on children. One child, a somewhat low tax, such as > an education tax. Two children, a higher tax is applied. Three > children, a much higher tax is applied, etc. No more tax deductions > for dependent children; instead, allow childless people to have > generous deductions for pets, computer collections (if all of the > computers are named), plants, etc. It might not hurt to outlaw the > discouragement of birth control and outlaw any religious dogma which > encourages people to have children. Give tax breaks to childless > people and don't tax them for any costs associated with children > (e.g. education, health care, etc.) Etc.... In other words, reduce > the population fairly quickly through a decline in the birth rate. > Simple, humane and effective, what? > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Sat Jun 8 23:18:18 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: 50 & 68 pin SCSI-2 Message-ID: <004e01c20f6c$af8e0500$023ca8c0@blafleur> I've got 50-pin SCSI-2 connectors inside my MicroVAX 3100. Is there a way to use 68-pin devices? The RZ26L and RZ28's in it are 50-pin, but I have some RZ29's that are 68-pin and I'm wondering if there is in adapter? I suspect not, but just asking. If I'm not mistaken, it is possible to "go the other way" and use 50-pin devices on a 68-pin cable with an adapter that terminates that "extra" lines, correct? - Bob From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Sat Jun 8 23:21:12 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: Mounting CD/tape devices inside MicroVAX 3100-90 Message-ID: <004f01c20f6d$174d77c0$023ca8c0@blafleur> I'm not really sure how the RRD43 that's in my MicroVAX 3100 is attached... There appears to be a metal bracket that's part of the system, with screws going into the sides of the RRD43... Or is that an integral part of the RRD43? I have space to mount a second drive, and I might like to put a tape drive in. But I don't see where I would screw it in... Do I need some sort of mounting bracket? If so, does anyone have any spares?? Thanks for any tips. - Bob From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 8 23:22:08 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk References: <200206090340.g593eFB15311@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <000901c20f6d$3829a360$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> No, I doubt they've built much since their failure, but from what I've gathered, all they really ever built was debt. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Dittman" To: Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 9:40 PM Subject: Re: China bans toxic American computer junk > > How recent would that be? Was it pre-Enron? > > Do you mean pre-Enron failure? > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ > From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jun 8 23:31:33 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <000901c20f6d$3829a360$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 08, 2002 10:22:08 PM Message-ID: <200206090431.g594VXK15515@narnia.int.dittman.net> > No, I doubt they've built much since their failure, but from what I've > gathered, all they really ever built was debt. Enron was an exercise in creative accounting. No, I don't mean Enron themselves, but energy companies in general when I asked about building plans pre- or post- Enron (with the public now sceptical of all energy companies). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sat Jun 8 23:38:21 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: can you check the behavior of your KDB50 during booting? Message-ID: <3D02DBBD.5060809@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, I am having a problem around the KDB50 of one of my VAX6k's and need your help. If you boot from a KDB50, could you check if the yellow indicator LEDs turn OFF for the moment that the drive is first accessed? I am getting the error, device not accessible. I could boot from that same path before until the moment that I connected another RA92 and an RA81 and I switched the drive unit numbers of two of my RA90s around. After I swapped those unit numbers I can't get any of the drives to boot any more. My fear is that somehow the KDB50 is dead. So, next time you bood your VAX through a KDB50, plese watch the yellow indicator LEDs closely. Mine go on in the early initialization process and stay on throughout the self test. Then when the boot sequence is entered those lights go off for a few seconds, the red FAULT light goes on at the console. After one or two seconds the yellow indicator LEDs go back on and FAULT light clears. Then the typical blink pattern of the little red LED is engaged, but at that time the VAX is already halted with that I/O error. thanks, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sat Jun 8 23:43:21 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: RA82 belt tension adjustment, how? Message-ID: <3D02DCE9.6040803@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, I just tried to spin up my RA82. Problem is the motor starts for a moment and then stops. Fault light comes on. Pressing the fault button and "B" flashes. I assume that my RUN button light is not working, so then the indicator pattern indicates a spin error. How can I fix that? I suppose it is the belt tension. I only have the RA81 maintenance manual, and although they are pretty similar, the belt tension stuff in the RA82 is not at all like what is described in the RA81 maintenance manual. Someone here knows how that is done? Or what else could be causing this spin fault? (I see that the motor starts but it is stopped within a second after it started.) thanks, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sat Jun 8 23:46:32 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: 50 & 68 pin SCSI-2 References: <004e01c20f6c$af8e0500$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <3D02DDA8.81B3C1E6@ccp.com> Bob Lafleur wrote: > > I've got 50-pin SCSI-2 connectors inside my MicroVAX 3100. Is there a > way to use 68-pin devices? The RZ26L and RZ28's in it are 50-pin, but I > have some RZ29's that are 68-pin and I'm wondering if there is in > adapter? I suspect not, but just asking. > > If I'm not mistaken, it is possible to "go the other way" and use 50-pin > devices on a 68-pin cable with an adapter that terminates that "extra" > lines, correct? > > - Bob Yep, I have a 68 pin to 50 pin adapter on a drive on my Amiga. 68 pin is SCSI-3 and is 16 bits per transfer cycle rather than 8. There are 50 to 68 pin adapters, but the termination for half the buss is a rare animal. I'd just have everything unterminated, and have a good active term on the end of the 68 pin cable. The down side is everything is slowed to SCSI-2 standards. I want to find a SCSI-3 CDrom to avoid that if possible, as I just bought a SCSI-3 hd for my Linux box here. I want to integrate a small SCSI-2 drive as my /swap partition. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Sat Jun 8 23:58:14 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: 50 & 68 pin SCSI-2 In-Reply-To: <3D02DDA8.81B3C1E6@ccp.com> Message-ID: <005001c20f72$43c27120$023ca8c0@blafleur> Gary, So your drive is a 68-pin drive and you've got it hooked to a 50-pin cable? That is what I need. Where could I find such a beast? Are they sold new by any place that you know of? Or is it something I'm likely to find on Ebay? - Bob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Gary Hildebrand Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 12:47 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: 50 & 68 pin SCSI-2 Bob Lafleur wrote: > > I've got 50-pin SCSI-2 connectors inside my MicroVAX 3100. Is there a > way to use 68-pin devices? The RZ26L and RZ28's in it are 50-pin, but > I have some RZ29's that are 68-pin and I'm wondering if there is in > adapter? I suspect not, but just asking. > > If I'm not mistaken, it is possible to "go the other way" and use > 50-pin devices on a 68-pin cable with an adapter that terminates that > "extra" lines, correct? > > - Bob Yep, I have a 68 pin to 50 pin adapter on a drive on my Amiga. 68 pin is SCSI-3 and is 16 bits per transfer cycle rather than 8. There are 50 to 68 pin adapters, but the termination for half the buss is a rare animal. I'd just have everything unterminated, and have a good active term on the end of the 68 pin cable. The down side is everything is slowed to SCSI-2 standards. I want to find a SCSI-3 CDrom to avoid that if possible, as I just bought a SCSI-3 hd for my Linux box here. I want to integrate a small SCSI-2 drive as my /swap partition. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sun Jun 9 00:00:16 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: CI networking, need some help debugging ... Message-ID: <3D02E0E0.1090807@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, I have now the two VAX6450s with CIBCA and connected through the star coupler. I was eager to see them talk IP through the CI but unfortunately it doesn't work. I'm under Ultrix 4.5 and I use ifconfig scs0 inet 192.168.17.1 netmask 255.255.255.0 on the one machine and ifconfig scs0 inet 192.168.17.2 netmask 255.255.255.0 on the other machine. If I check the status with just ifconfig scs0 It says it's up and fine. But ping self doesn't work and ping each other doesn't work either. From reading the scs man page, it mumbles something about host numbers having to be between 1 and 15. But I have no clue what they mean. I don't know my CI node numbers either. I'm wondering if I should know those and configure them somehow. I also wonder if this SCS IP has some arp? Would be really cool to have tcpdump for Ultrix. What's the best way to step by step get a CI system debugged? thanks, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Jun 9 00:02:44 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack References: <3D02CB08.3C88EE3B@ccp.com> Message-ID: <3D02E174.76E9EF52@jetnet.ab.ca> Gary Hildebrand wrote: > Thanks Tony . . . . The last big electronics boom started with WWII > surplus and a gentleman named Howard Anthony who started manufacturing > kits. Even simple things can still be built, and from those beginnings > we can hatch a new generation of hardware hackers/builders. > > There is nothing like building something from scratch, and it works firt > time out; if it doesn't, figuring out what the problem is. Can't get > that from calling 800 numbers and reciting your VISA and MC numbers over > the phone. Watching the Japanese Anime "Hand Maid May" reminds me that the US people seem to have forgotten how to DREAM and foster dreams in young people. This is a story who's main character's dream is to build robots and his struggles with the people around him to carry out his dream. Since the story is a teen romantic comedy with some SI/FI fantasy you will not find much practical computer science but rather a spirit of youthful energy and lot of cute young women. His life changes when the cyber-doll May , a 1/6 scale house maid that was sent to him mistake do to a computer error from a mysterious company. The people in story grow when get the chance to carry out their dreams what ever they be. http://www.pioneeranimation.com/titles.php?series_id=16 -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Sun Jun 9 01:33:59 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: Test results of SCSI devices on MicroVAX 3100 Message-ID: <005101c20f7f$a37aea40$023ca8c0@blafleur> I've accumulated a stack of external SCSI-2 devices that I thought I'd try out on my MicroVAX 3100. All devices show during a SCSI bus scan from the console prompt, and as devices when VMS 7.3 was booted from the internal hard drive. But they worked with varrying degress of success. Here are the results: "GENERIC CD-R CRD-800S" - This is an 8x CD-R (not CD-RW) drive; it reports as "GENERIC" but it really is a Sanyo CD-R CRD-800S. I've even updated it with the Sanyo firmware and it still reports as "GENERIC". I tried to boot the mini-VMS in SYS1 of my VMS 7.3 CD-ROM. Boot failre right away. Booted VMS from the hard drive, and tried to mount a CD-ROM, and I got invalid media format. "Yamaha CD-R 400c" - This is a 4x CD-R drive. I tried to boot the mini-VMS and it started to boot, until after it asked for the date & time, then it went into mount-verificiation mode, and just hung. I booted VMS from the hard drive, and tried to mount a CD-ROM disc and got the same message as with the CRD-800S - invalid media format. "Toshiba XM-3401TA" - Just a plain old CD-ROM drive, I think it's a 2x. I could boot the mini-VMS in SYS1 from it, and when I booted VMS from my hard drive, I could mount CD-ROM discs fine. No problems with operation at all. "MATSHITA LF-3000" - This is a 128MB MO (magneto-optical) drive, it's in a box badged "Optical Access International" and I originally purchased it for my Mac - it has always worked fine on the Mac. From the console prompt, a TEST F1 (SCSI OPTION Utilities) device scan showed it with a device name of JK (JKB400 in my specific situation) and the device type shows as "OPTDISK" but when I booted VMS from the hard drive it showed as a DKB400 device. I tried it INIT a disk, and got a "media is offline" error. I've had similar results trying to make this drive work on the PC - it is recognized fine, but when I try to use it, it seems to go away. Maybe there is newer firmware for it that corrects the problem, but it isn't a major issue at this point. I do find it strange that the console shows it as a JK device, but VMS shows it as a DK device. "TK50Z-GA" - Of course, it worked without a problem. Has anyone tried a Travan 4 SCSI tape drive? Specifically, the HP SureStore T4? - Bob From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Jun 9 01:48:48 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: Test results of SCSI devices on MicroVAX 3100 In-Reply-To: <005101c20f7f$a37aea40$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Jun 2002, Bob Lafleur wrote: > "Toshiba XM-3401TA" - Just a plain old CD-ROM drive, I think it's a 2x. > I could boot the mini-VMS in SYS1 from it, and when I booted VMS from my > hard drive, I could mount CD-ROM discs fine. No problems with operation > at all. I'm fairly certain that this is the same as a RRD-42. My RRD-42 is the same as the Toshiba drive that was in my SparcStation 5, and yes it is 2x. That's probably why it worked just fine. -- Pat From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sun Jun 9 03:25:25 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 08 Jun 2002 22:27:04 CDT." <3D02CB08.3C88EE3B@ccp.com> Message-ID: <200206090825.JAA11900@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Gary Hildebrand said: > Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > You basically hit at the heart of the matter. The reality is that US > > > society on the whole does not do hacking at a hardware level anymore > > > (which I suspect is the case in other parts of the world) and Radio Shack > > > It used to be that we encouraged people to learn and do. > > > > > > Now we encourage people to buy and expend. > > > > > Any suggestions as to how these trends can be reversed? > > > Thanks Tony . . . . The last big electronics boom started with WWII > surplus and a gentleman named Howard Anthony who started manufacturing > kits. Even simple things can still be built, and from those beginnings > we can hatch a new generation of hardware hackers/builders. At least here in the UK some people are making a positive effort to encourage youngsters to build radio equipment from scratch or from kits, we have a number of kit suppliers. No-one seems to be doing much on the digital front though. Schools could do more, I think, because if you don't get someone interested by the time they're thirteen or so, you never will. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jun 9 08:18:17 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: Recycling nicads Re: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <200206090202.g5922eH15017@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020609081817.0f17ca10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:02 PM 6/8/02 -0500, you wrote: >> > We aren't supposed to, but a lot of people throw away stuff they >> > shouldn't anyway (esp. batteries). >> >> Speaking of which, I have quite a few pounds of nicads I need to get >> recycled. Can anyone here recommend a company for that? > >I've seen battery recycling boxes around different stores. I >think one of them was Target. Try chains like that. I'm not sure they will take NiCads. But the companies that re-build battery packs (like TNR, Batteries Plus) should. I KNOW that TNR takes them. Joe From fernande at internet1.net Sun Jun 9 08:15:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk References: <3.0.6.16.20020608115501.225f3668@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3D0354D4.7050007@internet1.net> Joe wrote: > What amazes me is that it's taken so lang for some countries (China) to put a ban on the IMPORTATION of hazardous waste. Since when do Communist countries care about hazardous waste? If they think that importing the stuff will benifit the country, then they'll gladly sacrifice the people who actually handle it, or live in it. If they've truly banned it, then there motives are more than likely political, or maybe the situation has just gotten THAT bad in some locals where they can't ignore it. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Sun Jun 9 08:15:13 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk References: <200206082201.RAA18184@caesar.cs.umn.edu> <20020609024918.GB32524@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3D0354E1.3050400@internet1.net> R. D. Davis wrote: > All people need to do is stop having so many babies. So many babies? Aren't we aborting enough of them already? It's a well known fact that the average age is steadily increasing. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Sun Jun 9 08:40:09 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: Test results of SCSI devices on MicroVAX 3100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005a01c20fbb$2c865fa0$023ca8c0@blafleur> Does the RRD-42 have a caddy load? My XM-3401 is a caddy load, but they may have had a tray version also. My RRD-43 has a wicked heavy duty tray like I've never seen on any other CD-ROM drive before. Usually they're just these cheap plastic trays, but the RRD-43 is heavy metal and the CD really "snaps" into the center hub. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Pat Finnegan Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 2:49 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Test results of SCSI devices on MicroVAX 3100 On Sun, 9 Jun 2002, Bob Lafleur wrote: > "Toshiba XM-3401TA" - Just a plain old CD-ROM drive, I think it's a > 2x. I could boot the mini-VMS in SYS1 from it, and when I booted VMS > from my hard drive, I could mount CD-ROM discs fine. No problems with > operation at all. I'm fairly certain that this is the same as a RRD-42. My RRD-42 is the same as the Toshiba drive that was in my SparcStation 5, and yes it is 2x. That's probably why it worked just fine. -- Pat From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jun 9 09:05:56 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: 50 & 68 pin SCSI-2 References: <004e01c20f6c$af8e0500$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <001b01c20fbe$c6a68580$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> You're right, of course, but it's also possible to configure your wide SCSI devices to work on a narrow controller. I have that configuration working with SCA devices, which make it somewhat easier (at least less costly) but it's necessary that you consult the documentation for your wide drives to see about configuration details. The drives (several types) that I have all allow for "narrow" configuration with a single jumper. That's necessary, but not sufficient, since you also need the adapter cable, or an adapter board. If you configure the drive for narrow transfers, I doubt it matters whether you terminate the upper part of the bus appropriately, but if you have the option, I'd terminate the upper bus anyway. If you don't have an adapter and can't find one that's cheap enough, you could use one of the 3-way adapters that abound on the web for attaching SCA drives to a WIDE controller or a Narrow controller. There are at least three types, and what you want is the one that has BOTH the wide and narrow connectors. You're not required to use the SCA connector, though that's how the boards are intended to be used, and can then connect both a WIDE cable and a NARROW cable to the board, presumably with the NARROW cable going to your controller. I've done this with complete success, so you should have no trouble. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Lafleur" To: Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 10:18 PM Subject: 50 & 68 pin SCSI-2 > I've got 50-pin SCSI-2 connectors inside my MicroVAX 3100. Is there a > way to use 68-pin devices? The RZ26L and RZ28's in it are 50-pin, but I > have some RZ29's that are 68-pin and I'm wondering if there is in > adapter? I suspect not, but just asking. > > If I'm not mistaken, it is possible to "go the other way" and use 50-pin > devices on a 68-pin cable with an adapter that terminates that "extra" > lines, correct? > > - Bob > > From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Sun Jun 9 09:11:16 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: 50 & 68 pin SCSI-2 In-Reply-To: <001b01c20fbe$c6a68580$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <006001c20fbf$856d53e0$023ca8c0@blafleur> Dick, Thanks for the info. I'll look into these adapters your talking about. The specific wide drives I have that I'd like to connect to the narrow bus are RZ29's. So I'll have to see what I can find out about configuring them for narrow bus. - Bob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 10:06 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: 50 & 68 pin SCSI-2 You're right, of course, but it's also possible to configure your wide SCSI devices to work on a narrow controller. I have that configuration working with SCA devices, which make it somewhat easier (at least less costly) but it's necessary that you consult the documentation for your wide drives to see about configuration details. The drives (several types) that I have all allow for "narrow" configuration with a single jumper. That's necessary, but not sufficient, since you also need the adapter cable, or an adapter board. If you configure the drive for narrow transfers, I doubt it matters whether you terminate the upper part of the bus appropriately, but if you have the option, I'd terminate the upper bus anyway. If you don't have an adapter and can't find one that's cheap enough, you could use one of the 3-way adapters that abound on the web for attaching SCA drives to a WIDE controller or a Narrow controller. There are at least three types, and what you want is the one that has BOTH the wide and narrow connectors. You're not required to use the SCA connector, though that's how the boards are intended to be used, and can then connect both a WIDE cable and a NARROW cable to the board, presumably with the NARROW cable going to your controller. I've done this with complete success, so you should have no trouble. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Lafleur" To: Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 10:18 PM Subject: 50 & 68 pin SCSI-2 > I've got 50-pin SCSI-2 connectors inside my MicroVAX 3100. Is there a > way to use 68-pin devices? The RZ26L and RZ28's in it are 50-pin, but > I have some RZ29's that are 68-pin and I'm wondering if there is in > adapter? I suspect not, but just asking. > > If I'm not mistaken, it is possible to "go the other way" and use > 50-pin devices on a 68-pin cable with an adapter that terminates that > "extra" lines, correct? > > - Bob > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jun 9 09:12:38 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk References: <200206090431.g594VXK15515@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <002f01c20fbf$b63211a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> This sort of pseudo-wealth creation is a Texas phenomenon that's been around since the early days of the oil boom. That's why I'd favor dragging Texas out into the Gulf and sinking it, along with parts of Arizona and Southern CA just to make for a long swim for the illegals from south of the border. If Texans were to think of themselves as Americans first and Texans second, it would change things significantly, but as you exemplified by the Bush administrations past and present, that's not in the cards. Texans also tendt to take the short view where environmental matters are concerned. They're not alone in this, but, since the "broad brush" is in use, I don't think it's totally off-base to say that. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Dittman" To: Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 10:31 PM Subject: Re: China bans toxic American computer junk > > No, I doubt they've built much since their failure, but from what I've > > gathered, all they really ever built was debt. > > Enron was an exercise in creative accounting. > > No, I don't mean Enron themselves, but energy companies in > general when I asked about building plans pre- or post- > Enron (with the public now sceptical of all energy companies). > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ > From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Jun 9 07:14:04 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: 50 & 68 pin SCSI-2 References: <004e01c20f6c$af8e0500$023ca8c0@blafleur> <3D02DDA8.81B3C1E6@ccp.com> Message-ID: <00e301c20fc1$94c5f020$a4469280@y5f3q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Hildebrand" To: Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 12:46 AM Subject: Re: 50 & 68 pin SCSI-2 > Yep, I have a 68 pin to 50 pin adapter on a drive on my Amiga. 68 pin > is SCSI-3 and is 16 bits per transfer cycle rather than 8. There are 50 > to 68 pin adapters, but the termination for half the buss is a rare > animal. I'd just have everything unterminated, and have a good active > term on the end of the 68 pin cable. The down side is everything is > slowed to SCSI-2 standards. I want to find a SCSI-3 CDrom to avoid that > if possible, as I just bought a SCSI-3 hd for my Linux box here. I want > to integrate a small SCSI-2 drive as my /swap partition. I picked up a 50-pin-cable-to-68-pin-device from the local Microcenter a while back. It's marked `ACTIVE' for some reason. Does the high byte on a device need to be terminated too? I believe Microcenter is a mailorder outfit, they might have a comprehensive catalog somewhere. If there's a store local to you, it might be a fun place to visit. Mostly expen$ive, but the place here was pretty poorly managed, and some good deals could be found where the computer spit out an obviously wrong price. (It goes both ways though-- I pointed out a drive pigtail IIRC that was marked $49.95. The salescritter said it had to be the right price. YMMV) > > Gary Hildebrand > St. Joseph, MO Bob From davebarnes at adelphia.net Sun Jun 9 10:09:59 2002 From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: Mounting CD/tape devices inside MicroVAX 3100-90 References: <004f01c20f6d$174d77c0$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <3D036FC7.104957A5@adelphia.net> Good luck! The metal brackets for the 3100 /80, 40, 90 etc series (and they are different depending upon device you are mounting) will sometimes go as much as the system!! hehe Bob Lafleur wrote: > I'm not really sure how the RRD43 that's in my MicroVAX 3100 is > attached... There appears to be a metal bracket that's part of the > system, with screws going into the sides of the RRD43... Or is that an > integral part of the RRD43? I have space to mount a second drive, and I > might like to put a tape drive in. But I don't see where I would screw > it in... Do I need some sort of mounting bracket? If so, does anyone > have any spares?? Thanks for any tips. > > - Bob From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Sun Jun 9 09:30:20 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <20020609024918.GB32524@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <200206082201.RAA18184@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020609103020.01009658@pop1.epm.net.co> At 10:49 PM 6/8/02 -0400, you wrote: >Sort of... only the solution can be less painful: > >All people need to do is stop having so many babies. This is why I >support the "W.C. Fields Memorial Child Tax Bill," a progressively >incrementing tax on children. One child, a somewhat low tax, such as >an education tax. Two children, a higher tax is applied. Three >children, a much higher tax is applied, etc. No more tax deductions >for dependent children; instead, allow childless people to have >generous deductions for pets, computer collections (if all of the >computers are named), plants, etc. It might not hurt to outlaw the >discouragement of birth control and outlaw any religious dogma which >encourages people to have children. Give tax breaks to childless >people and don't tax them for any costs associated with children >(e.g. education, health care, etc.) Etc.... In other words, reduce >the population fairly quickly through a decline in the birth rate. >Simple, humane and effective, what? But dead wrong. Such an incentive would be positively correlated with an increase in poverty, which is in turn positively correlated with an increase in babies. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jun 9 09:56:56 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk References: <200206082201.RAA18184@caesar.cs.umn.edu> <3.0.2.32.20020609103020.01009658@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <005501c20fc5$e6443980$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> There must be a better way to effect a 99.999% reduction in world population. Things were so much better when nobody lived within a lifetime's walk from anyone else ... ... but for the good old days ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlos Murillo" To: Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 8:30 AM Subject: Re: China bans toxic American computer junk > At 10:49 PM 6/8/02 -0400, you wrote: > >Sort of... only the solution can be less painful: > > > >All people need to do is stop having so many babies. This is why I > >support the "W.C. Fields Memorial Child Tax Bill," a progressively > >incrementing tax on children. One child, a somewhat low tax, such as > >an education tax. Two children, a higher tax is applied. Three > >children, a much higher tax is applied, etc. No more tax deductions > >for dependent children; instead, allow childless people to have > >generous deductions for pets, computer collections (if all of the > >computers are named), plants, etc. It might not hurt to outlaw the > >discouragement of birth control and outlaw any religious dogma which > >encourages people to have children. Give tax breaks to childless > >people and don't tax them for any costs associated with children > >(e.g. education, health care, etc.) Etc.... In other words, reduce > >the population fairly quickly through a decline in the birth rate. > >Simple, humane and effective, what? > > But dead wrong. Such an incentive would be positively correlated with > an increase in poverty, which is in turn positively correlated with > an increase in babies. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org > > From jcwren at jcwren.com Sun Jun 9 10:07:15 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020609103020.01009658@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: None of this works (for the US) as long as don't revamp the welfare system. I endorse mandatory non-permanent sterilization for anyone on welfare. And if you have a kid while you're on welfare, you automatically lose all benefits. If may be your right to breed, but not while I'm supporting your lazy butt with my tax dollars. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Carlos Murillo Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 10:30 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: China bans toxic American computer junk At 10:49 PM 6/8/02 -0400, you wrote: >Sort of... only the solution can be less painful: > >All people need to do is stop having so many babies. This is why I >support the "W.C. Fields Memorial Child Tax Bill," a progressively >incrementing tax on children. One child, a somewhat low tax, such as >an education tax. Two children, a higher tax is applied. Three >children, a much higher tax is applied, etc. No more tax deductions >for dependent children; instead, allow childless people to have >generous deductions for pets, computer collections (if all of the >computers are named), plants, etc. It might not hurt to outlaw the >discouragement of birth control and outlaw any religious dogma which >encourages people to have children. Give tax breaks to childless >people and don't tax them for any costs associated with children >(e.g. education, health care, etc.) Etc.... In other words, reduce >the population fairly quickly through a decline in the birth rate. >Simple, humane and effective, what? But dead wrong. Such an incentive would be positively correlated with an increase in poverty, which is in turn positively correlated with an increase in babies. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Jun 9 10:57:51 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020609103020.01009658@pop1.epm.net.co> References: <200206082201.RAA18184@caesar.cs.umn.edu> <3.0.2.32.20020609103020.01009658@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <20020609155751.GD32524@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Carlos Murillo, from writings of Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 10:30:20AM -0400: > But dead wrong. Such an incentive would be positively correlated with > an increase in poverty, which is in turn positively correlated with > an increase in babies. Au contraire. The problem is that the U.S., like many other nations, has a self-destructive economic mindset which believes that constant growth, not stability, is what's important, and, necessary. The problem with this is that we live in a nation, and a world, with a finite amount of resources. Take land for example, and notice how open land, woodlands and farms are disappearing as the population continues to grow. Our politicians tend to think in the following circular, and destructive, manner: we need to give the economy a boost, that requires more jobs to be created, that means that we need businesses to expand and the creation of new businesses, more land is needed for more buildings... now, we've created more jobs. Uh-oh, now we need more people - maybe we need to import some cheap labor and we need more people to have more babies, now we need more houses for these people to live in, and we need more highways (gobble, gobble, there goes more land lost to "development") Now, we've got more people than jobs again, so we need to create more jobs... The vicious cycle continues... Now, toss the environment into the aforementioned mess, and see how more and more people having more and more babies causes more and more harm to Nature. Society turns to pollution control, more efficient cars, houses and appliances, etc. as a solution; however, that only necessitates more manufacturing, more traffic, more pollution, the need for more people, more land, etc. Of course, the aforementioned also results in more profits for some greedy people, and the typically corrupt politicians get to say that they're doing something about the problem while helping special interests, and hence, that route is taken. Most politicians don't like simple solutions which don't please special interest groups and businesses, so, the simple and effective solutions, like stopping the overpopulation problem, are ignored. Let's not also forget that there's that societal nuisance called religious dogma which also deserves some of the credit for the overpopulation problem, which some people deny the existence of because they're brainwashed by such dogma and a desire for economic growth rather than stability - e.g., greed. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From pat at purdueriots.com Sun Jun 9 10:42:55 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: Test results of SCSI devices on MicroVAX 3100 In-Reply-To: <005a01c20fbb$2c865fa0$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: Oops. The drive I have is a XM-4101B. I wouldn't be supprised if a few different models of Toshiba drives work. BTW the RRD-42 and toshiba drive (which look exactly the same minus the labels perhaps) are both tray load 2x. -- Pat On Sun, 9 Jun 2002, Bob Lafleur wrote: > Does the RRD-42 have a caddy load? My XM-3401 is a caddy load, but they > may have had a tray version also. > > My RRD-43 has a wicked heavy duty tray like I've never seen on any other > CD-ROM drive before. Usually they're just these cheap plastic trays, but > the RRD-43 is heavy metal and the CD really "snaps" into the center hub. > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Pat Finnegan > Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 2:49 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Test results of SCSI devices on MicroVAX 3100 > > > On Sun, 9 Jun 2002, Bob Lafleur wrote: > > > "Toshiba XM-3401TA" - Just a plain old CD-ROM drive, I think it's a > > 2x. I could boot the mini-VMS in SYS1 from it, and when I booted VMS > > from my hard drive, I could mount CD-ROM discs fine. No problems with > > operation at all. > > I'm fairly certain that this is the same as a RRD-42. My RRD-42 is the > same as the Toshiba drive that was in my SparcStation 5, and yes it is > 2x. That's probably why it worked just fine. > > -- Pat > > From allain at panix.com Sun Jun 9 12:01:45 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk References: Message-ID: <016c01c20fd7$56cf32c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Speaking of which, I have quite a few pounds of nicads I > need to get recycled. > Can anyone here recommend a company for that? Drop in to your local Fire Department and ask. They know more about hazmats than the average person, and could further direct you. Where I live there's two annual open collection days when you can just give your hazmats right to them. (I expect you've been to your local dump already?) John A. From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sun Jun 9 12:27:06 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: 50 & 68 pin SCSI-2 References: <005001c20f72$43c27120$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <3D038FEA.D44CB122@ccp.com> Bob Lafleur wrote: > > Gary, > > So your drive is a 68-pin drive and you've got it hooked to a 50-pin > cable? That is what I need. Where could I find such a beast? Are they > sold new by any place that you know of? Or is it something I'm likely to > find on Ebay? > > - Bob > They are now pretty available, if the computer dealer sticks any sort of SCSI stuff. I know of a couple places in Kansas City that stock them as a rule. When I first got the SCSI-3 drive, these adapters were over $50 each; being frugal, I wouldn't part with that for a plastic connector. A year or so later they came down to $15, still expensive but more realistic in my eyes and to my wallet. You might try Dalbani electronics, or maybe Jameco; they stock quite a selection of odd stuff like that. If you are stuck, I can pick up one for you next time I go to KC. E-bay might have one listed, but you'd probably pay more than they are worth. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From geneb at deltasoft.com Sun Jun 9 12:33:22 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > I can actually top that. In the early 90's, I used to do some software > > work for an electronics store called Supertronix. > > Interesting. I don't suppose that's the same Supertronix, near the > Southcenter Mall in Tukwila, WA? They're still around and still have the > same sensibility. In fact, I just bought a 240-degree 5-pin DIN plug there > the other day. They rock yea verily. > That's the place. When I worked there they were located down by Boeing Space & Defense on West Valley Highway... From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Sun Jun 9 14:55:05 2002 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: Anyone have a data sheet on the MC3242? References: <20020609012039.88596.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> <001f01c20f66$2daa1fc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3D03B299.D1667073@bluewin.ch> Richard Erlacher wrote: > > It's a 7-bit mux and refresh counter, and, if you ask me, it's a waste of > silicon. I used lots of 'em over the years and it isn't really that valuable. > If you have an application (one or two Intel Multibus-1 DRAM boards used 'em). > The 3242 is just a 7-bit mux and a 7-bit counter, with controls. It's useful > only if you specifically need it. I.e. : save some. I would, since I have at least one rare machine ( Wirth's Lilith ) that relies on them. I would not like to have to come up with a replacement circuit if one fails..... Jos From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Jun 9 12:39:45 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <016c01c20fd7$56cf32c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Jun 2002, John Allain wrote: > > Speaking of which, I have quite a few pounds of nicads I > > need to get recycled. > > Can anyone here recommend a company for that? > > Drop in to your local Fire Department and ask. They know more about > hazmats than the average person, and could further direct you. Where > I live there's two annual open collection days when you can just give > your hazmats right to them. (I expect you've been to your local dump > already?) I'll check into that. I've heard that there are companies out there that will even send you a bucket (or drum, for the larger companies) free of charge for you to fill and send back to them (postage paid). AFAIK, the local collection sites here won't accept nicads and SLA batteries (tried to give them small SLA batteries several times). Scrap metal companies dealing in lead will accept SLA batteries though, but not nicads. IIRC, it is illegal (federal law?) to dispose of nicad and lead batteries in a landfill. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Jun 9 12:42:08 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <200206090202.g5922eH15017@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Jun 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > We aren't supposed to, but a lot of people throw away stuff they > > > shouldn't anyway (esp. batteries). > > > > Speaking of which, I have quite a few pounds of nicads I need to get > > recycled. Can anyone here recommend a company for that? > > I've seen battery recycling boxes around different stores. I think > one of them was Target. Try chains like that. The only local store I know of in Houston that bothers to recycle them is/was Radio Shack, and the last time I asked, they were not willing to accept the nicads that I have. -Toth From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sun Jun 9 12:50:57 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: 50 & 68 pin SCSI-2 References: <004e01c20f6c$af8e0500$023ca8c0@blafleur> <001b01c20fbe$c6a68580$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3D039581.621EDCC8@ccp.com> Richard Erlacher wrote: > > You're right, of course, but it's also possible to configure your wide SCSI > devices to work on a narrow controller. I have that configuration working > with SCA devices, which make it somewhat easier (at least less costly) but > it's necessary that you consult the documentation for your wide drives to see > about configuration details. The drives (several types) that I have all allow > for "narrow" configuration with a single jumper. That's necessary, but not > sufficient, since you also need the adapter cable, or an adapter board. If > you configure the drive for narrow transfers, I doubt it matters whether you > terminate the upper part of the bus appropriately, but if you have the option, > I'd terminate the upper bus anyway. > > If you don't have an adapter and can't find one that's cheap enough, you could > use one of the 3-way adapters that abound on the web for attaching SCA drives > to a WIDE controller or a Narrow controller. There are at least three types, > and what you want is the one that has BOTH the wide and narrow connectors. > You're not required to use the SCA connector, though that's how the boards are > intended to be used, and can then connect both a WIDE cable and a NARROW cable > to the board, presumably with the NARROW cable going to your controller. I've > done this with complete success, so you should have no trouble. > > Dick > My Quantum drive could either be jumpered for narrow mode, or it would automatically fall back to 8 bit bus width if it only saw 8 bit data. AFAIK, SCA is just another variation on SCSI-3, and were primarily for hot-swap drives. Personally, I don't belive in a daisychain of adapters to get from connector A to connector B. Out of curiosity, has anyone tried running both SCSI-3 and SCSI-2 devices on an Adaptec 2940UW card, using separate 50 & 68 pin cables? I'd like to do that, but then I'd have another big ribbon cable taking up room in my PC here. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Jun 9 10:04:40 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: [OT]: anti-spam for classiccmp members Message-ID: <009301c20fe1$7c875f60$bda6f13e@phoenix> Hi, Just wondering - are there any measures in place on this list to stop spammers harvesting our e-mail addresses from the list archive? How about locking the archives and only allowing access to list members (or just set the user and password to "classiccmp") Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Jun 9 10:02:34 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack References: <200206090825.JAA11900@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <009201c20fe1$7c5504c0$bda6f13e@phoenix> "Stan Barr" said: > At least here in the UK some people are making a positive effort to > encourage youngsters to build radio equipment from scratch or from kits, > we have a number of kit suppliers. No-one seems to be doing much on the > digital front though. Schools could do more, I think, because if you > don't get someone interested by the time they're thirteen or so, you > never will. I'm still waiting for someone to start selling something similar to the old RadioShack/Tandy "Science Fair" kit (the one with the breadboard - was it the 300 In One?) and include a section in the guide about hooking it up to a computer using a buffer board and printer cable. Then introduce kids to EPROMs and teach them how to design a microprocessor on a computer (or by hand) :-) In fact, I might have to do that myself :-) Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Sun Jun 9 13:30:08 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:11 2005 Subject: 50 & 68 pin SCSI-2 In-Reply-To: <3D039581.621EDCC8@ccp.com> Message-ID: <006e01c20fe3$afc65a00$023ca8c0@blafleur> > Out of curiosity, has anyone tried running both SCSI-3 and SCSI-2 devices on an Adaptec 2940UW card, using separate 50 & 68 pin cables? I'd like to do that, but then I'd have another big ribbon cable taking up room in my PC here. I've run a SCSI-3 hard drive on the wide internal connector, and SCSI-2 CD-ROM and tape drive on the internal 50-pin connector of the 2940UW. Works fine. When you're doing that though, you can't use the external connector on tbe back. With a 2940UW-PRO, you can use all 3 connectors at once, which I have also done. - Bob From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Jun 9 13:54:25 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk References: Message-ID: <3D03A461.3561E3AF@jetnet.ab.ca> "J.C. Wren" wrote: > > None of this works (for the US) as long as don't revamp the welfare system. > I endorse mandatory non-permanent sterilization for anyone on welfare. And > if you have a kid while you're on welfare, you automatically lose all > benefits. > > If may be your right to breed, but not while I'm supporting your lazy butt > with my tax dollars. But remember BOTH parties need to be sterile. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From mrfusion at uranium.vaxpower.org Sun Jun 9 12:35:23 2002 From: mrfusion at uranium.vaxpower.org (Lord Isildur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: CI networking, need some help debugging ... In-Reply-To: <3D02E0E0.1090807@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: there is tcpdump for ultrix, but i dont think that there are hooks for bpf in the ci stuff. well, check the source :) host number? i think they mean node number, a decnet thing. probably you have to set it up with decnet first, and then give it an ip number too.. just my guess isildur On Sun, 9 Jun 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Hi, > > I have now the two VAX6450s with CIBCA and connected through the > star coupler. I was eager to see them talk IP through the CI > but unfortunately it doesn't work. I'm under Ultrix 4.5 and I > use > > ifconfig scs0 inet 192.168.17.1 netmask 255.255.255.0 > > on the one machine and > > ifconfig scs0 inet 192.168.17.2 netmask 255.255.255.0 > > on the other machine. If I check the status with just > > ifconfig scs0 > > It says it's up and fine. But ping self doesn't work and ping > each other doesn't work either. From reading the scs man > page, it mumbles something about host numbers having to be > between 1 and 15. But I have no clue what they mean. I don't > know my CI node numbers either. I'm wondering if I should > know those and configure them somehow. I also wonder if this > SCS IP has some arp? Would be really cool to have tcpdump > for Ultrix. What's the best way to step by step get a CI > system debugged? > > thanks, > -Gunther > > > -- > Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org > Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care > Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine > tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 9 13:47:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] ancient transistors found! In-Reply-To: <20020609015355.DKHA12468.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Jun 8, 2 09:58:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 501 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020609/885f2366/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 9 13:58:22 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: Anyone have a data sheet on the MC3242? In-Reply-To: <20020609012039.88596.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jun 8, 2 06:20:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1589 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020609/3bbf6b02/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 9 14:02:09 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <3D02CB08.3C88EE3B@ccp.com> from "Gary Hildebrand" at Jun 8, 2 10:27:04 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 528 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020609/e416dd8b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 9 14:23:11 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <009201c20fe1$7c5504c0$bda6f13e@phoenix> from "Philip Pemberton" at Jun 9, 2 04:02:34 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 707 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020609/601355be/attachment.ksh From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jun 9 16:32:02 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: 50 & 68 pin SCSI-2 References: <006e01c20fe3$afc65a00$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <001901c20ffd$18ab0980$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> All but one of my 2940/3940 devices are broken so I haven't tried this with them, but it works fine with the Wide SCSI controllers I am using. I have one cheapie from SIIG with both narrow and wide connectors on the board and it works fine with a mix of narrow, wide, and SCA drives, which have wide adapters on them, BTW. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Lafleur" To: Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 12:30 PM Subject: RE: 50 & 68 pin SCSI-2 > > Out of curiosity, has anyone tried running both SCSI-3 and SCSI-2 > devices on an Adaptec 2940UW card, using separate 50 & 68 pin cables? > I'd like to do that, but then I'd have another big ribbon cable taking > up room in my PC here. > > I've run a SCSI-3 hard drive on the wide internal connector, and SCSI-2 > CD-ROM and tape drive on the internal 50-pin connector of the 2940UW. > Works fine. When you're doing that though, you can't use the external > connector on tbe back. With a 2940UW-PRO, you can use all 3 connectors > at once, which I have also done. > > - Bob > > From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Jun 9 16:25:26 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: Microprocessor development systems (was: Re: I hate Radio Shack) References: Message-ID: <016501c20ffd$152fec80$bda6f13e@phoenix> "Tony Duell" said: > > I'm still waiting for someone to start selling something similar to the old > > RadioShack/Tandy "Science Fair" kit (the one with the breadboard - was it > > the 300 In One?) and include a section in the guide about hooking it up to a > I think that kit is still sold by Maplin in the UK. At least I've seen > one in their shops which seems to include a plugblock type breadboard. Can't say I've seen it in the local store. Then again, I stopped looking at the kits section when they discontinued the Z80 Development System. And I was only ?5 away from buying one, too (I was about 13 yrs old at the time). Alas, a Maplin Z80 Development System has joined the list of the many SBC's I'd like to acquire... So far, my current list is: MOS KIM-1 Synertek SYM-1 or SY-VIM-1 Rockwell AIM-65 (with or without printer, with or without case) Compukit UK101 (yes, I want a UK101...) Maplin Z80 Development System Anyone want to part with any of the above? I nearly managed to get a "box full" of SYM-1s last year but the guy who had them has since lost his job and said he'd e-mail me when "everything is sorted out"... > > computer using a buffer board and printer cable. Then introduce kids to > Agreed. I have never seen an experimental kit that covers computer > interfacing. Maybe somebody should design one. Of course getting it to > pass the EMC regulations (which are mandatory in the UK, even for kits) > would be the expensive part :-( Blasted EMC regs... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From foo at siconic.com Sun Jun 9 16:36:32 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: OT, private response: Need Windows XP help Message-ID: Is there anyone here fairly expert at Windows XP installations that I can bounce a few questions off of? Please reply private to . Thanks! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jun 9 16:38:23 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: Anyone have a data sheet on the MC3242? References: Message-ID: <002b01c20ffd$fb59bce0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I have a bunch of small boards that use this baby, but the fact that its relatively slow and relies on relatively conservative timing makes it easy to design an application badly and not at all easy to design one well with it. It saves you having to provide two LS257's and an LS590. I dont' find that much of a saving. Those are all three 16-pin parts and cost well less than the 3242 did, regardless of whether you used Intel's or Motorola's. Sadly, the thing didn't provide much to help you with the timing itself, but that was pretty easy. There was a companion part, the MC3480, which was helpful with timing, though, as I said, it helped you do it badly and just got in the way of doing it well. I've got the data somewhere, but in a databook and not in a loose sheet. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 12:58 PM Subject: Re: Anyone have a data sheet on the MC3242? > > > > > > I'm stripping interesting parts off of these stat mux boards > > that I recently got around the corner - lots of socketed 6502s > > and 65c02s, 2532s and the like. Many of the boards have a 24-pin > > DIP MC3242 which I can find little about - Google only gives me > > Intel also made it (or at least they made something called a 3242 with > the same functions from what I can see). > > It's basically the address path logic for 16K DRAMs (7 address lines to > the RAM). It's a 7-wide 3-input multiplexer and 7 bit counter (for the > refresh address). The 3 inputs to the mux are the high 7 address inputs, > the low 7 address inputs, and the output of the counter. > > While it didn't make DRAM control easy, it reduced the number of packages > you needed. > > The pinout is : > > 1: COunt/ (clock input to refresh counter) > 2: Refresh Enable (High = address out from refresh counter, low = from > row/col mux) > 3: Row Enable (High = row/column mux passes low 7 address lines, low = high > 7 address lines) > 4: N/C > 5: A1 input > 6: A8 > 7: A2 > 8: A9 > 9: A0 > 10: A7 > 11: O0/ (Address 0 Output, inverted) > 12: O2/ > 13: O1/ > 14: Gnd > 15: Zero Detect/ (low if (refresh counter == 0)) > 16: O5/ > 17: O4/ > 18: O3/ > 19: O6/ > 20: A10 > 21: A3 > 22: A11 > 23: A4 > 24: A12 > 25: A5 > 26: A13 > 27: A6 > 28: Vcc (+5V) > > > So... anyone have any information on the MC3242 and why I might want > > to save a couple dozen of them? > > Well, I wouldn't design using one now, but it was commonly used on old > DRAM boards (Acorn used it, I think, in the 'System' machines, I've seen > it on S100 boards, etc), and thus it might be worth saving a few. > > -tony > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Jun 9 16:38:29 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: Anyone have a data sheet on the MC3242? References: Message-ID: <3D03CAD5.99D61D7@jetnet.ab.ca> Tony Duell wrote: > Intel also made it (or at least they made something called a 3242 with > the same functions from what I can see). > > It's basically the address path logic for 16K DRAMs (7 address lines to > the RAM). It's a 7-wide 3-input multiplexer and 7 bit counter (for the > refresh address). The 3 inputs to the mux are the high 7 address inputs, > the low 7 address inputs, and the output of the counter. Did anybody make something for 64K DRAMS as well. Most 6502/6800 machines used video access for refresh and the Z80 had built in refresh so only the 8080 really needed such a chip. Back then a 4k/8k/16k static memory board was a option too rather than DRAM board. Sigh ... Remember when 4x1K 450 ns static ram was the best thing since sliced bread? -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sun Jun 9 16:48:38 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: 50 & 68 pin SCSI-2 References: <004e01c20f6c$af8e0500$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <3D03CD36.4DC004AC@compsys.to> >Bob Lafleur wrote: > I've got 50-pin SCSI-2 connectors inside my MicroVAX 3100. Is there a > way to use 68-pin devices? The RZ26L and RZ28's in it are 50-pin, but I > have some RZ29's that are 68-pin and I'm wondering if there is in > adapter? I suspect not, but just asking. Jerome Fine replies: I can't help you with the RZ29. I use only the RZ28. > If I'm not mistaken, it is possible to "go the other way" and use 50-pin > devices on a 68-pin cable with an adapter that terminates that "extra" > lines, correct? I normally get my RZ28 drives by opening an RZ28D-VA box. If you can use them, they convert the RZ28 (which is just an ST32550N drive from Seagate) into the 68 pin interface. I can use a few more, so contact me off list if you want to arrange for me to buy some RZ28D-VA boxes which contain the ST32550N drives. Normally, I buy about 10 at a time. They are quite useful to run RT-11 when attached to a host adapter either on a PC (PCI Adaptec AHA-2940AU) or on a real PDP-11 (Qbus CQD 220/TM). Each RZ28 can hold almost 31 RT-11 partitions. Under Ersatz-11 on a PC, each ST32550N drive can have its own device driver under RT-11 EVEN though it is connected to the same SCSI host adapter. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sun Jun 9 17:47:38 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: Anyone have a data sheet on the MC3242? References: <20020609012039.88596.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> <001f01c20f66$2daa1fc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3D03B299.D1667073@bluewin.ch> Message-ID: <3D03DB0A.4600CB45@gifford.co.uk> Jos Dreesen wrote: > I.e. : save some. I would, since I have at least one > rare machine ( Wirth's Lilith ) that relies on them. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I've heard of these machines, but never seen a picture of one. Do you have a web site with photos, by any chance? -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Jun 9 17:55:48 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: 74S409 (was Re: Anyone have a data sheet on the MC3242?) In-Reply-To: <3D03CAD5.99D61D7@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20020609225548.77048.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ben Franchuk wrote: > Did anybody make something for 64K DRAMS as well. We used the 74S409 for our 64K and 256K DRAMs on COMBOARDs. I have enough to last several lifetimes, if anyone wants to play with one. We learned the hard way that 33 Ohm resistors were required inline with the CAS and RAS lines to minimize undershoot, but other than that, they are rock-solid. A 74S409 went on every COMBOARD after the COMBOARD-I (which had 32KW of 2114 SRAM). I think we typically put 16-18 chips per board (the COMBOARD-II has parity) - it worked out like this... COMBOARD-II - 128KB (4164 x 18) COMBOARD-Q - 512KB (41256 x 16) COMBOARD-BI - 2048KB (44256 x 16) The reason why I mentioned the number of chips is that the inline resistors are "tuned" to the load of the number of DRAMs they have to drive. We had a cancelled project with a 68000 + 68451 in a desk-top box with up to 32 serial ports and 512K - 2048K of 4164s. The number of populated banks affected the values of the resistors. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Sun Jun 9 18:10:11 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: 74S409 (was Re: Anyone have a data sheet on the MC3242?) Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E56@BUSH02> [Driving DRAM] The number of populated banks affected the values of the resistors. You should have split the resistance between banks. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Jun 9 18:10:36 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: Replacement tube for IBM 026 Printing Card Punch In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020609231036.80637.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Lawson wrote: > Hey Ethan, this is cool! > > While there has been a great deal of sage advice, speculation, maybes, > and 'try this' posts concerning the 026 - yours is the first positive > lead. Thanks. > Would it be possible for you to go pop the back off the machine and > give Sellam and/or the List just a quick note of what tubes are in what > sockets, or, if they are all the same type, could you let us know that > too?? I have pictures at: http://penguincentral.com/retrocomputing/026/Puncher1.jpg and http://penguincentral.com/retrocomputing/026/Puncher.jpg (they were named by a friend's teenaged son who has a better digital camera than me). > This would remove the nagging doubt caused by no doco and no clear > info. To the best of my ability to observe (I did not remove *all* the tubes), they are all of type 25L6. I did retrieve the docs from the base and will endeavor to copy them and get copies to Sellam. Most of the pages are oversized, so it will be a trick. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Sun Jun 9 18:19:44 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: Festival of Inappropriate Technology?? Message-ID: This event seemed sort-of on topic... look here: http://www.xcom2002.com/ Did any of the UK list members attend this? Any reports? From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Sun Jun 9 18:31:26 2002 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: 50 & 68 pin SCSI-2 In-Reply-To: <001b01c20fbe$c6a68580$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <004e01c20f6c$af8e0500$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020609192725.00a35700@n.ml.org> 3 ways are great for SCSI 1,2 & 3, but remember, you MUST have one that is labeled LVD or it won't work right with Ultra2 (80) or Ultra3 (160) SCSI (different setup slightly). I get one too many customers not realizing this when they pick one up at the store I work at ("Oh, it's that 68 pin thing, that's all it really is, I don't need that LV-something thing." - later turning out to be Ultra2 or 3). -John Boffemmyer IV At 10:05 AM 6/9/02, you wrote: >You're right, of course, but it's also possible to configure your wide SCSI >devices to work on a narrow controller. I have that configuration working >with SCA devices, which make it somewhat easier (at least less costly) but >it's necessary that you consult the documentation for your wide drives to see >about configuration details. The drives (several types) that I have all allow >for "narrow" configuration with a single jumper. That's necessary, but not >sufficient, since you also need the adapter cable, or an adapter board. If >you configure the drive for narrow transfers, I doubt it matters whether you >terminate the upper part of the bus appropriately, but if you have the option, >I'd terminate the upper bus anyway. > >If you don't have an adapter and can't find one that's cheap enough, you could >use one of the 3-way adapters that abound on the web for attaching SCA drives >to a WIDE controller or a Narrow controller. There are at least three types, >and what you want is the one that has BOTH the wide and narrow connectors. >You're not required to use the SCA connector, though that's how the boards are >intended to be used, and can then connect both a WIDE cable and a NARROW cable >to the board, presumably with the NARROW cable going to your controller. I've >done this with complete success, so you should have no trouble. > >Dick > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Bob Lafleur" >To: >Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 10:18 PM >Subject: 50 & 68 pin SCSI-2 > > > > I've got 50-pin SCSI-2 connectors inside my MicroVAX 3100. Is there a > > way to use 68-pin devices? The RZ26L and RZ28's in it are 50-pin, but I > > have some RZ29's that are 68-pin and I'm wondering if there is in > > adapter? I suspect not, but just asking. > > > > If I'm not mistaken, it is possible to "go the other way" and use 50-pin > > devices on a 68-pin cable with an adapter that terminates that "extra" > > lines, correct? > > > > - Bob > > > > ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Jun 9 19:33:51 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020608114612.225f34dc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Let me just say that I am amazed at the amount of misinformation in this thread, here and elsewhere. > Better metals!?!?! You MUST be kidding! The metal in 99% computers > is about one level above slag. The metal quality in modern computers is just fine. The only thing that really has changed is "lightweighting" - basically less material is used. The steel shells might be thinner, the wires may be shorter, and the gold plate may be a fraction of what is used to be. Once the metals are extracted from the computers, none of it is so terrible that it is waste. Gold is gold. Mild steel (minus rust) is pretty much mild steel. Aluminum alloy is still basically aluminum. Some of the metal is basically horrible - but that is reused for castings and still is worth saving. Nothing has changed, other than the amount of computers a scrapper has to junk to turn a profit. It is tougher today, so only the bigger scrapyards are surviving. Folks, there seems to be this idea running computers are not recycled that well, and all sorts of them go to the landfill. This is crap, plain and simple. Computers have the distinction of being one of the most recycled resources out there. A good yard will extract 98 percent of the goodies out of pallets of computer junk they get. Basically, all that is left is wire insulation (after shredding to get the conductors), epoxy-fibreglass (after the boards are shredded to get the copper, solder, gold, etc.), and the glass from the tubes (tubes are falling to flatpanels, so the problem will "correct itself"). Everything else, plastics included, are now recycled. That is probably a better record than soda cans or newspapers. Another point is that basically *all* corporate systems (from hoards of PeeCees to mainframes) get recycled. Sure, they get tossed into a dumpster, but that dumpster does not end up at the dump - it goes to the scrap yard. Likewise, *most* computers left on the streets (with the exception of tubes) end up at the scrappers as well. The garbage collection companies will generally pull out computer scrap and send it to the scrappers. It saves them money, even if they get nothing for it from the junkman, as it cuts doen on their dumping charges., > The > recyclers that I know are currently piling up the steel since it costs > more to haul it to a recycling center than it's worth. This is common practive in the industry from the dawn of time - when the value of the metal is low, stockpile. There is no mystery to this. The steel mills still pay for scrap steel, as it still is cheaper than making steel from ore. They will not, however, give much for it, and it needs to be in *large* quantities. > However > modern PCs have just about zero metal in them and virtually no gold silver > or copper. Modern PeeCees have anywhere from 2 to 13 dollars worth of scrap metals, each. Mostly gold and tantalum. > I realize that some edge connectors have gold and there is > copper on the circuit boards but the amounts are miniscule and certainly > not worth the labor and chemicals to extract it. It is worth it, but it has to be done in large quantities. An investment in special machines (in the 120,000 dollar category) is needed to get the extraction to a reasonable cost. Anyway, this whole China ban thing will basically change nothing. It is basically a way for them to keep the worthless tubes out of their scrap system. China needs scrap. Even the cheapest consumer garbage is made out of the stuff. They will continue to buy it in the future - just now we can't load up the containers with tubes. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From mythtech at mac.com Sun Jun 9 19:47:08 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 (was Re: [CCTECH] New Finds This Week) Message-ID: >I have one (got the ethernet off of a IIsi that was $5 at the >Uni Surplus depot) I haven't considered NetBSD, though. I _do_ >have a couple of sets of 30-pin 16MB SIMMs - 128MB in an SE/30 >would be fine. :-) Might not be possible. The SE/30 has 8 30 pin slots, and is rated to use a max of 4 MB chips. That gives it a max RAM of 32 MB. But I haven't tried putting more in one, and there are a few Macs out there that will use larger chips, or more RAM than they are rated for, but most will not (they either don't see the larger chips, or they won't access more RAM). -chris From mythtech at mac.com Sun Jun 9 19:55:40 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: [OT] measuring DC wall wart Message-ID: >heck you can even use a jar of salt water >with 2 electrodes in it at a pinch -- electrolysis is a problem if you >use it for any length of time on DC, but it will act as a power resistor >for long enough to test a PSU) I did that for extra credit once in a theater lighting class. I built a Salt Water dimmer system. Worked real nice for a little while, then the water turned piss yellow, and it stopped conducting at all. But I got the extra points to make up for the classes I missed. I built it using a 9 volt battery, the little square ones used in toys, a baby food jar, metal cut from a can of peaches, and some scrap wood, wires, and light bulb pulled from a toy truck... same truck the battery came from. It was a fun evening project. -chris From fernande at internet1.net Sun Jun 9 20:20:45 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk References: Message-ID: <3D03FEED.9050107@internet1.net> William Donzelli wrote: > Folks, there seems to be this idea running computers are not recycled > that well, and all sorts of them go to the landfill. If it goes into the dumpster, how does it get to a scrapper? Don't most garbage trucks go directly to the dump, from the street? I can see special arangements being made for large quatitys but for the average company or Joe who suddenly decides today is the day to pitch the old computers, I doubt they end up at the scrapper. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jun 9 20:21:07 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Jun 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > But at any rate, why would you object to calling either Bush stupid? I > find them to be completely devoid of any sense whatsoever, as their > actions have proven. > > But I digress... > The President makes policy, and We The People implement it. Current > policy is to move us closer to the Apocalypse so we can fulfill some > moron's religious mythology. Are you sure Raymond Moyer didn't dictate all that? Sellam, with all due respect, I resent your recent attempts to turn this list into your political pressure-relief valve. There are more appropriate forums for grinding your political axe. Doc From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jun 9 19:51:38 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <3D0354D4.7050007@internet1.net> References: <3.0.6.16.20020608115501.225f3668@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020609195138.453736f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:15 AM 6/9/02 -0400, Chad wrote: >Joe wrote: >> What amazes me is that it's taken so lang for some countries (China) to put a ban on the IMPORTATION of hazardous waste. > >Since when do Communist countries care about hazardous waste? If they >think that importing the stuff will benifit the country, then they'll >gladly sacrifice the people who actually handle it, or live in it. If >they've truly banned it, then there motives are more than likely >political, or maybe the situation has just gotten THAT bad in some >locals where they can't ignore it. Well said but EXACTLY the same could be said about counties like the US that are controlled by big business (through their pet politians). In both cases it's the people that suffer in the end. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jun 9 21:38:20 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <200206090340.g593eFB15311@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <003c01c20f66$cd4c3680$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020609213820.44970d0e@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:40 PM 6/8/02 -0500, Eric wrote: >> How recent would that be? Was it pre-Enron? > >Do you mean pre-Enron failure? Failure? Enron wasn't a failure. Just ask the people in charge, they made millions from it! :-/ (A sad commentary on American businesses) Joe From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Jun 9 20:44:12 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <3D03FEED.9050107@internet1.net> Message-ID: > If it goes into the dumpster, how does it get to a scrapper? Don't most > garbage trucks go directly to the dump, from the street? Often they go to intermediate stations. Depends on the firm. They can get in trouble for trying to dump hazmats, so they do actually watch what comes out of the back of the truck. Of course, in most major cities, there is an army of guys that wander the alleys and pull out the scrap metal, computers, and good flea market junk, before the garbage man even gets to it. In Chicago and suburbs, where I grew up, these guys have overloaded pickups filled to the brim with junk the take to the metal dealers. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From thompson at new.rr.com Sun Jun 9 21:03:07 2002 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: CI networking, need some help debugging ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Jun 2002, Lord Isildur wrote: > >I don't > > know my CI node numbers either. I'm wondering if I should > > know those and configure them somehow. I also wonder if this > > SCS IP has some arp? Would be really cool to have tcpdump > > for Ultrix. What's the best way to step by step get a CI > > system debugged? Check out the crash (8) command to find out your CI node number. If you do the command to show SCS parameters in the kernel (the exact commands escape me at the moment & my Ultrix machine is not booted) you will find neat things like the node numbers and states of the cables, etc. I would think uerf might show node numbers as well in the boot sequence. -- From fernande at internet1.net Sun Jun 9 21:07:11 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk References: <3.0.6.16.20020608115501.225f3668@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20020609195138.453736f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3D0409CF.1010206@internet1.net> Joe wrote: > Well said but EXACTLY the same could be said about counties like the US that are controlled by big business (through their pet politians). In both cases it's the people that suffer in the end. > > Joe I don't think it is exactly the same thing. Big business can't push things to the extent that a communist government can. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sun Jun 9 17:13:04 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: Free stuff in Mid Wales References: Message-ID: <3D03D2F0.99D9E0F1@gifford.co.uk> Peter Joules wrote: > Due to a move to a smaller house, I am having to consider letting go of > some of my toys :( > > The following is available, free to a good home: > > 2 Sun 386i (boxes only, no HDD dead or dying NVRAM) > 2 x PDP11 rackmount CPUs > 2 BBC Bs Did I send you an e-mail about the PDPs and/or BBCs? Only I've been messing about with a friend's PDP-11/34 and sorting out my e-mails, not to mention being offered a PDP-8. Are any of these things still available? -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Jun 9 21:32:25 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 (was Re: [CCTECH] New Finds This Week) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020610023225.74831.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Chris wrote: > >I have one (got the ethernet off of a IIsi that was $5 at the > >Uni Surplus depot) I haven't considered NetBSD, though. I _do_ > >have a couple of sets of 30-pin 16MB SIMMs - 128MB in an SE/30 > >would be fine. :-) > > Might not be possible. > > The SE/30 has 8 30 pin slots, and is rated to use a max of 4 MB chips. > That gives it a max RAM of 32 MB. The important word is "rated". No... Apple never rated the SE/30 for 16MB SIMMs, but various sources claim they work. http://www.lowendmac.com/compact/se30.shtml > But I haven't tried putting more in one, and there are a few Macs out > there that will use larger chips, or more RAM than they are rated for, > but most will not (they either don't see the larger chips, or they won't > access more RAM). I have had that experience trying to use 64MB 72-pin SIMMs. The reason it doesn't work is complicated but logical. Is is *possible* to make a 64MB SIMM work in, say, a 660av, but most of the ones that happened to have been manufactured have an incompatible refresh scheme. http://www.lowendmac.com/tech/64mb.html -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Jun 9 21:36:46 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: 74S409 (was Re: Anyone have a data sheet on the MC3242?) In-Reply-To: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E56@BUSH02> Message-ID: <20020610023646.87951.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Davison, Lee" wrote: > > [Driving DRAM] > > The number of populated banks affected the > values of the resistors. > > You should have split the resistance between banks. I was not the engineer. I was the stock boy. This was a long time ago. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Sun Jun 9 21:50:11 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: 74S409 (was Re: Anyone have a data sheet on the MC3242?) Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E58@BUSH02> > [Driving DRAM] >> The number of populated banks affected the >> values of the resistors. > You should have split the resistance between banks. I was not the engineer. I was the stock boy. This was a long time ago. The engineer should have split the resistance between banks. 8^)= Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Jun 9 21:47:45 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: 74S409 (was Re: Anyone have a data sheet on the MC3242?) References: <20020610023646.87951.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D041351.F7174BAF@jetnet.ab.ca> > > You should have split the resistance between banks. > > I was not the engineer. I was the stock boy. This was a long > time ago. Mind you now days it is hard to tell the difference. :) -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jun 9 22:59:03 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20020608114612.225f34dc@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020609225903.4ccf0f18@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> William, I hope you don't take this personally but you don't have a clue about what you're talking about! At 08:33 PM 6/9/02 -0400, William wrote: >Let me just say that I am amazed at the amount of misinformation in this >thread, here and elsewhere. > >> Better metals!?!?! You MUST be kidding! The metal in 99% computers >> is about one level above slag. > >The metal quality in modern computers is just fine. The only thing that >really has changed is "lightweighting" - basically less material is used. >The steel shells might be thinner, the wires may be shorter, and the gold >plate may be a fraction of what is used to be. Once the metals are >extracted from the computers, none of it is so terrible that it is waste. >Gold is gold. Not when it's <2 microns thick and only <40% gold! Compare that to 25+ micron thickness and 85% gold used in HP and other high end equipment. The other materials used in most modern computers are of a similar LOW quality but I won't debate that now. Mild steel (minus rust) is pretty much mild steel. Aluminum >alloy is still basically aluminum. Some of the metal is basically horrible >- but that is reused for castings and still is worth saving. Nothing has >changed, other than the amount of computers a scrapper has to junk to turn >a profit. It is tougher today, so only the bigger scrapyards are surviving. > >Folks, there seems to be this idea running computers are not recycled >that well, and all sorts of them go to the landfill. This is crap, plain >and simple. Computers have the distinction of being one of the most >recycled resources out there. > A good yard will extract 98 percent of the >goodies out of pallets of computer junk they get. I guess that depends on what your idea of "extract" is. They might extract 98% of the USEFULL (ie profitable) material but LARGE amount still go to landfills and a LOT of other places were they can dump it without being caught. Hell, one of my best scrounging locations is an illegal dump. Steve Robertson, Mike Haas and a couple of other members of this list can verify that if you like. Not everything that goes there is worhtless :-) Basically, all that is >left is wire insulation (after shredding to get the conductors), >epoxy-fibreglass (after the boards are shredded to get the copper, >solder, gold, etc.), and the glass from the tubes (tubes are falling to >flatpanels, so the problem will "correct itself"). Everything else, >plastics included, are now recycled. >That is probably a better record >than soda cans or newspapers. Almost certainly but newspaper are hardly an environmental hazard. Hell, I don't THINK Aluminium cans are either even if they do linger around for the next century. > >Another point is that basically *all* corporate systems (from hoards of >PeeCees to mainframes) get recycled. Ha, Ha, Ha, Roll on the floor laughing hysteriacally! Wipes tears from eyes. You don't honestly believe that do you????? Big companies sell/give their surplus to fly-by-night companies that PROMISE to recycle it but once they get it it's another story. It's no different from when numerous toxic waste producers "sold" their waste to third party companies for "proper disposal" that usually meant finding the nearest empty field and dumping it or sometimes just opening the valve and driving down the road till everything "leaked" out. Believe me, I worked for one such company for a few weeks when they were short handed. They had a contract to get ALL of the equipment from a LARGE U.S. electronics corporation whose name I can't reveal. But lets just call them M, OK? As long as M was assured that the company would ATTEMPT to recycle as much material as PRACTICLE (ie PROFITABLE) they were happy. Of course by the time that M reported on their "recycling plan" to the public, the public was assured that M was "recycling" 100% of their surplus and scrap material. All "100% recycled" meant to them was that 100% was transferred to someone else. In the end the whole thing collasped because there were too many back door deals going on at M and nearly all of the usefull equipment disappeared before going to the disposal company. They were left with nothing but unwanted computers, broken test equipment, TONS of scrap plastic and circuit boards and the like, all of it nearly worthless. We sold what we could, gave away piles more and dumped 99% of the computers into not only our dumpster but also those of several surrounding businesses. I got a number of HP computers from them but threw hundreds of others into the dumpsters. Sure, they get tossed into a >dumpster, but that dumpster does not end up at the dump - it goes to the >scrap yard. Obviously you don't know anything about the scrap or trash businesses. Scrap dealers collected usable items in THEIR OWN TRUCKS, 100%* of the stuff in the dumpsters was picked up by the trash companies and went directly to the landfill. *Unless a dumpster diver got to it first but that was seldom since nothing that had any value was thrown away. We had dumpster divers but even they didn't want the stuff that we threw out. Likewise, *most* computers left on the streets (with the >exception of tubes) end up at the scrappers as well. The garbage >collection companies will generally pull out computer scrap and send it >to the scrappers. You OBVIOUSLY know nothing about dumps and the trash business.. (1) the drivers are usually too ignorant to know what's worth anything and much too busy to have the time to worry about it. (2) dumps don't put out anything, it ALL goes into the landfill. I once asked some dump employees if they ever took any of the stuff home and they told that they were NOT allowed to and that they had been warned that they WOULD be fired IMMEDIATELY if they were ever caught taking ANYTHING from the trash. (3) The dumps/landfills and their employees have NO connection with the scrappers. They don't even know who they are or that they even exist. I know because I questioned them when I was trying to find scrap places. It saves them money, even if they get nothing for it >from the junkman, as it cuts doen on their dumping charges., Wrong again. It could potenially save them money of dump fees but it would cost them a lot more for the manpower, space and equipment needed to soft the stuff. In addition, the dump trucks have compactors built into them so that they can crush and compact the trash as they collect it so that they can carry more in the truck. Go outside and watch one sometime. If they intended to sort the stuff they won't be able to compact it would they? > >Modern PeeCees have anywhere from 2 to 13 dollars worth of scrap metals, >each. Mostly gold and tantalum. TANTALUM? Show me some Tantalum in a modern PC! HIGH grade gold fingers (edge connctors) from circuit boards USED to be worth about 1 cent per contact. But the PC quality fingers are of a lot lower quality (and value) and in addition gold has dropped 2/3 in value in the last couple of years. NONE of the places that I've been to in the last year or two even bother to cut them off and save them any more. > >> I realize that some edge connectors have gold and there is >> copper on the circuit boards but the amounts are miniscule and certainly >> not worth the labor and chemicals to extract it. > >It is worth it, but it has to be done in large quantities. An investment >in special machines (in the 120,000 dollar category) is needed to get the >extraction to a reasonable cost. And a location with VERY lax environmental laws (NJ seems to be a favorite!) so that they can dispose of the waste that they create when they extract the worthwhile materials. > >Anyway, this whole China ban thing will basically change nothing. It is >basically a way for them to keep the worthless tubes out of their scrap >system. China needs scrap. Even the cheapest consumer garbage is made out >of the stuff. They will continue to buy it in the future - just now we >can't load up the containers with tubes. You may be right up to a point. But OTOH we aren't likely to pay the cost of disassembling the stuff and removing the tubes and then disposing of them as hazardous waste and still GIVE the stuff to China are we? So will sending the other remains to China be economicly feasable? Probably not. Furthermore, the tubes aren't the only hazardous material in the e-scrap. Go back and read the article that started this thread. Burning wire and plastic to recover the metals creates toxic fumes, the heavy metals such as cadnium, nickel and lead pollute the land and water, manually breaking the glass and plastic is a hazard to the workers and I'm sure that there are other problems that we haven't even thought of so it looks to me like the days of dumping the stuff in China or other third world countries are over with. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jun 9 23:12:13 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <3D0409CF.1010206@internet1.net> References: <3.0.6.16.20020608115501.225f3668@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20020609195138.453736f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020609231213.4967db00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:07 PM 6/9/02 -0400, Chad wrote: >Joe wrote: >> Well said but EXACTLY the same could be said about counties like the US that are controlled by big business (through their pet politians). In both cases it's the people that suffer in the end. >> >> Joe > >I don't think it is exactly the same thing. Big business can't push >things to the extent that a communist government can. Sure they can! Especially with the backing of the government. I can name cases where we allow things that even the communist don't allow. Anonymously reporting people for child abuse (imagined or real), tax fraud and other "crimes" is just one such case. This is wondering a bit too far OT so let's drop it ok? Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jun 9 23:14:45 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: 74S409 (was Re: Anyone have a data sheet on the MC3242?) In-Reply-To: <3D041351.F7174BAF@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <20020610023646.87951.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020609231445.4ccf8f7a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:47 PM 6/9/02 -0600, Ben wrote: >> > You should have split the resistance between banks. >> >> I was not the engineer. I was the stock boy. This was a long >> time ago. > >Mind you now days it is hard to tell the difference. :) They're one and the same judging from many current products. Joe From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Sun Jun 9 22:18:42 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: 50 & 68 pin SCSI-2 In-Reply-To: <3D03CD36.4DC004AC@compsys.to> Message-ID: <00b201c2102d$869e76e0$023ca8c0@blafleur> The RZ29's I have came out of StorageWorks boxes. I'm assuming it's a standard RZ29 in those boxes. I figured though since RZ26L and RZ28 are 50-pin that a RZ29 would be 50 pin also. Big surprise to see it's a 68-pin drive! On the drive it says RZ29B-W... Guess the W means "Wide". Is there just a standard RZ29 that is SCSI-2 50-pin? -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jerome H. Fine Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 5:49 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: 50 & 68 pin SCSI-2 >Bob Lafleur wrote: > I've got 50-pin SCSI-2 connectors inside my MicroVAX 3100. Is there a > way to use 68-pin devices? The RZ26L and RZ28's in it are 50-pin, but > I have some RZ29's that are 68-pin and I'm wondering if there is in > adapter? I suspect not, but just asking. Jerome Fine replies: I can't help you with the RZ29. I use only the RZ28. > If I'm not mistaken, it is possible to "go the other way" and use > 50-pin devices on a 68-pin cable with an adapter that terminates that > "extra" lines, correct? I normally get my RZ28 drives by opening an RZ28D-VA box. If you can use them, they convert the RZ28 (which is just an ST32550N drive from Seagate) into the 68 pin interface. I can use a few more, so contact me off list if you want to arrange for me to buy some RZ28D-VA boxes which contain the ST32550N drives. Normally, I buy about 10 at a time. They are quite useful to run RT-11 when attached to a host adapter either on a PC (PCI Adaptec AHA-2940AU) or on a real PDP-11 (Qbus CQD 220/TM). Each RZ28 can hold almost 31 RT-11 partitions. Under Ersatz-11 on a PC, each ST32550N drive can have its own device driver under RT-11 EVEN though it is connected to the same SCSI host adapter. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Jun 9 23:09:45 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: China bans toxic American computer junk In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020609225903.4ccf0f18@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > William, I hope you don't take this personally but you don't have a > clue about what you're talking about! Great, another flame war. I love this list. > Not when it's <2 microns thick and only <40% gold! Not all of it is this bad - a lot is still 8-12 micron and 90 percent gold. Anyway, in quantity (as I pointed out it must be done in large numbers to turn a profit), gold is still gold, even mixed with other metals. Many scrappers do not trade in the metal itself, but rather the metal in solution or in some other impure state. Refineries will take the metal in all sorts of forms. > I guess that depends on what your idea of "extract" is. They might > extract 98% of the USEFULL (ie profitable) material It is actually 98 percent by weight. > Big companies > sell/give their surplus to fly-by-night companies that PROMISE to recycle > it but once they get it it's another story. While the scrap market is full of crooks and cheats, they are actually going away as they simply can not compete anymore. Simply put, scrappers will try to get money out of anything they can. > Obviously you don't know anything about the scrap or trash > businesses. I just work with it, and have a buddy that is one of the larger military electronic scrap dealers on the East Coast. He (and more his father) have scrapped more computers that most (including SEAC, apparently) - 10000s of tons. > (1)the drivers are usually too ignorant to know what's worth anything and > much too busy to have the time to worry about it. The drivers are not the ones making any decisions (sometimes they do - around here they have some rules about what they leave behind). I said nothing about drivers. > (2) dumps don't put out > anything, it ALL goes into the landfill. Some places yes, someplaces no. As I said in a previous mail, it depends on the firms and the dumps. Most of the time the dumps and haulers are different companies. > I once asked some dump employees > if they ever took any of the stuff home and they told that they were NOT > allowed to and that they had been warned that they WOULD be fired > IMMEDIATELY if they were ever caught taking ANYTHING from the trash. This is irrelevant. I said nothing about taking stuff home. > (3) The dumps/landfills and their employees have NO connection with the > scrappers. They don't even know who they are or that they even exist. Maybe the ones you have dealt with. > Wrong again. It could potenially save them money of dump fees but it > would cost them a lot more for the manpower, space and equipment needed to > soft the stuff. Dump fees are getting outrageous, and this is not a really great sort, by any stretch of the imagination. > In addition, the dump trucks have compactors built into > them so that they can crush and compact the trash as they collect it so > that they can carry more in the truck. Just because the machines are crushed does not mean they are somehow fused to the rest of the garbage. > TANTALUM? Show me some Tantalum in a modern PC! Yes, many PeeCess use tantalum. Check out the price of tantalum some day. You may be shocked. > HIGH grade gold fingers (edge connctors) from circuit boards USED to be > worth about 1 cent per contact. I do not deny that gold scrap was better in the old days. If anything, it was too good (wasteful). > But the PC quality fingers are of a lot > lower quality (and value) and in addition gold has dropped 2/3 in value > in the last couple of years. Once again, process more and stockpile the scrap and wait for the value to rise (as it has been lately). > And a location with VERY lax environmental laws (NJ seems to be a > favorite!) so that they can dispose of the waste that they create when > they extract the worthwhile materials. If properly done, gold refining is a very closed-loop process. Certainly some very nasty chemicals are involved, but these chemicals are recycled during the process. Very little "leaks out". Also, most scrappers do not do their own refining, because of the danger. It is very hazardous (it can kill you quite easily). Nearly all of them send their material to a refinery. There are very few (relatively) refineries around that can hand you a bar of gold in return for your scrap because of the strict environmental laws. Essentially, no more licenses for gold refineries will ever be issued. These are not fly-by-night operations, and are very strictly controlled. > You may be right up to a point. But OTOH we aren't likely to pay the > cost of disassembling the stuff and removing the tubes and then disposing > of them as hazardous waste and still GIVE the stuff to China are we? So > will sending the other remains to China be economicly feasable? Probably > not. They will pay good money. The tubes are now our problem. > Furthermore, the tubes aren't the only hazardous material in the > e-scrap. Go back and read the article that started this thread. Burning > wire and plastic to recover the metals creates toxic fumes, In the US at least, wire buring has been out of fashion for many many years. These days, the wire is shredded, with the resulting mess being dumped into a seperator. The latter unit basically works with water - the insulation floats to the surface and the metal sinks to the bottom. Simple and very effective. > the heavy > metals such as cadnium, nickel and lead pollute the land and water, The heavy metals are hard to deal with. So far the best solution seems to be more shredding, but at a finer level. With these newer systems, circuit boards go in, and powder comes out. The idea is with enough shredding, the broken down bits will eventually all be individual materials. For example, with enough shredding, many of the individual very small grains will be pure copper from the traces, and can be pulled out using various means. Obviously some of the grains are mixed metals, but most are not. Of course, it all depends on how far the scrapper wants to go. Many just take all of the components off boards with something similar to a giant scraper, and pitch the boards. It really depends on what the scrap is and how much the scrapper can do profitably. > manually breaking the glass and plastic is a hazard to the workers With the tubes, the good bits are mostly on the yoke - no glass needs to be broken. One screw will generally allow the yoke to slide off. There is so little good stuff in the electron guns that they are not worth fooling around with. Even with the yokes off, there just is not enough return for the little bit of copper. That is why we would dump the tubes elsewhere (to clarify - by tube I mean the whole video monitor with case, circuitboard, CRT, and all). > and I'm > sure that there are other problems that we haven't even thought of so it > looks to me like the days of dumping the stuff in China or other third > world countries are over with. Well, the days of dumping our tubes are pretty much over. They never wanted them anyway, and now they have a real excuse to reject them. As said before, it is a self correcting problem, as tubes fall to flatpanels. By the way, Joe, you are now going to be ignored. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From mythtech at mac.com Sun Jun 9 23:17:22 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 (was Re: [CCTECH] New Finds This Week) Message-ID: >> The SE/30 has 8 30 pin slots, and is rated to use a max of 4 MB chips. >> That gives it a max RAM of 32 MB. > >The important word is "rated". No... Apple never rated the SE/30 >for 16MB SIMMs, but various sources claim they work. Humm... good to know. Maybe I'll give it a try some time. >I have had that experience trying to use 64MB 72-pin SIMMs. The reason >it doesn't work is complicated but logical. Is is *possible* to >make a 64MB SIMM work in, say, a 660av, but most of the ones that >happened to have been manufactured have an incompatible refresh scheme. Well, RAM issues aside, some Macs just simply won't look at total memory higher than they are rated for. For example, the LC II supports 4 MB simms, and you can install 2 of them. Added to the 4 MB on the logic board, you have a total of 12 MB installed... but it will only "see" 10 MB of it (this I have tried first hand). And IIRC, I have read that the PM 6400/6500 will support 128 MB chips, but even if you install 2 of them, they will only "see" 128 MB total (I haven't tried despite having a 6500, mine just has 2 64's in it maxing it out). There are other PowerMacs that are supposed to be the same way. But then, there are the ones that it does seem to work with. Like the 7200 that is spec'd for 64 MBs max (total of 256 MB installed), but in fact can use 128 MB chips, and will see the full 512 MB of space. And then there are ones like the PowerBook 1400 that have mixed reports. Some people report being able to go above 64 MB, others say you can't. My guess is both are true, and probably has to do with a board revision. (another that I haven't tried despite having the system) I just tossed the info about the SE/30 out there because I didn't want you to go in blind assuming it would work, and then go nuts trying to figure out why it didn't (if in fact it didn't, but like you have pointed out, there are reports that it will). -chris From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 9 16:52:10 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: [OT] measuring DC wall wart Message-ID: <20020610043507.LSML20717.imf10bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Tony Duell > Not everyone has 2N3055s lying about. They don't?!? Glen 0/0 From red at bears.org Mon Jun 10 00:56:10 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 (was Re: [CCTECH] New Finds This Week) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Jun 2002, Chris wrote: > Might not be possible. > > The SE/30 has 8 30 pin slots, and is rated to use a max of 4 MB chips. > That gives it a max RAM of 32 MB. Not at all true. I have four 16 MB SIMMs in my SE/30 right at this very minute, giving me a total of 64 MB. It's gratuitous, wanton, and silly, but it _does_ work. ok r. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Jun 10 01:15:07 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 (was Re: [CCTECH] New Finds This Week) In-Reply-To: from "r. 'bear' stricklin" at "Jun 10, 2 01:56:10 am" Message-ID: <200206100615.XAA27306@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > The SE/30 has 8 30 pin slots, and is rated to use a max of 4 MB chips. > > That gives it a max RAM of 32 MB. > > Not at all true. I have four 16 MB SIMMs in my SE/30 right at this very > minute, giving me a total of 64 MB. It's gratuitous, wanton, and silly, > but it _does_ work. If you want even more wanton, I have a 128MB IIci. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana. ------------------- From ddavidso at metz.une.edu.au Mon Jun 10 01:41:46 2002 From: ddavidso at metz.une.edu.au (Dean Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: Free manuals (except postage) In-Reply-To: <00b201c2102d$869e76e0$023ca8c0@blafleur> References: <3D03CD36.4DC004AC@compsys.to> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020610162855.046ac2a0@pobox.une.edu.au> I have been cleaning out the workshop. I have found the following Maintenance manuals ADM-5 ADM-36 Visual 102 They are yours for free - but you will have to pay postage for them (I'm in Armidale, NSW, Australia) Dean -- Dean Davidson Web: http://www.une.edu.au/psychology/staff/deand.htm School of Psychology Email: mailto:ddavidso@metz.une.edu.au University of New England Phone: +61 2 6773 2585 Armidale NSW 2351 Australia VK2 ZID From stanb at dial.pipex.com Mon Jun 10 03:22:34 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 09 Jun 2002 20:23:11 BST." Message-ID: <200206100822.JAA26656@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) said: > > I'm still waiting for someone to start selling something similar to the old > > RadioShack/Tandy "Science Fair" kit (the one with the breadboard - was it > > the 300 In One?) and include a section in the guide about hooking it up to a > > I think that kit is still sold by Maplin in the UK. At least I've seen > one in their shops which seems to include a plugblock type breadboard. > Just looked in my Maplin catalog and the list three types with increasing complexity. They look like a pretty good intruduction for a youngster. http://www.maplin.co.uk part nos. FW58N, FW61R and FW74R if you want to take a look. > > computer using a buffer board and printer cable. Then introduce kids to > > Agreed. I have never seen an experimental kit that covers computer > interfacing. Maybe somebody should design one. Of course getting it to > pass the EMC regulations (which are mandatory in the UK, even for kits) > would be the expensive part :-( An exemption was negotiated for kits of parts, otherwise our kit industry would have been wiped out! The authorities recognize the value of hands-on experience in encouraging youngsters to take an interest in technology. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Jun 10 10:16:34 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <200206100822.JAA26656@citadel.metropolis.local> References: <200206100822.JAA26656@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <20020610151634.GD26390@mrbill.net> On Mon, Jun 10, 2002 at 09:22:34AM +0100, Stan Barr wrote: > Just looked in my Maplin catalog and the list three types with increasing > complexity. They look like a pretty good intruduction for a youngster. > http://www.maplin.co.uk part nos. FW58N, FW61R and FW74R if you want > to take a look. Exactly what I've been looking for.. but can anyone recommend similar companies in the US, with similar stuff for sale? Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From sloboyko at yahoo.com Mon Jun 10 10:33:42 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:12 2005 Subject: 50 & 68 pin SCSI-2 In-Reply-To: <3D038FEA.D44CB122@ccp.com> Message-ID: <20020610153342.66620.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com> An even better trick than this is to use 80-pin SCA SCSI drives. Computergeeks.com sold (maybe still sells) a PCB that adapts this to either 68 pin _or_ 50 pin SCSI for maybe 10 bucks. You can pick up SCA 80-pin drives very, very cheap or free, even new ones, because most people figure the interface to be "proprietary" and the drives are very hard to sell. --- Gary Hildebrand wrote: > Bob Lafleur wrote: > > > > Gary, > > > > So your drive is a 68-pin drive and you've got it > hooked to a 50-pin > > cable? That is what I need. Where could I find > such a beast? Are they > > sold new by any place that you know of? Or is it > something I'm likely to > > find on Ebay? > > > > - Bob > > > They are now pretty available, if the computer > dealer sticks any sort of > SCSI stuff. I know of a couple places in Kansas > City that stock them as > a rule. When I first got the SCSI-3 drive, these > adapters were over $50 > each; being frugal, I wouldn't part with that for a > plastic connector. > A year or so later they came down to $15, still > expensive but more > realistic in my eyes and to my wallet. > > You might try Dalbani electronics, or maybe Jameco; > they stock quite a > selection of odd stuff like that. If you are stuck, > I can pick up one > for you next time I go to KC. E-bay might have one > listed, but you'd > probably pay more than they are worth. > > Gary Hildebrand > St. Joseph, MO __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Jun 10 12:03:25 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:13 2005 Subject: Diagnosing a non-working Mac Performa 476? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Brian Chase wrote: > On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > First thing to do would be re-initialize the "parameter RAM." Hit > > command-alt-p-r on power up. (I have seen corrupted PR cause this > > kind of problem.) There are also a couple of things that you can > > (very safely) reset with other hot-keys. You'll have to look them > > up, though. > > I've a feeling it's most likely the PRAM battery. I'll try finding a > replacement. [...] Yup. Replacing the batteries on each of the two system boards I have has cleared the problems. Now I have a happy mac. Thanks for the advice. -brian. From stanb at dial.pipex.com Mon Jun 10 13:34:56 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:13 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:16:34 CDT." <20020610151634.GD26390@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <200206101834.TAA00159@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Bill Bradford On Mon, Jun 10, 2002 at 09:22:34AM +0100, Stan Barr wrote: > > Just looked in my Maplin catalog and the list three types with increasing > > complexity. They look like a pretty good intruduction for a youngster. > > http://www.maplin.co.uk part nos. FW58N, FW61R and FW74R if you want > > to take a look. > > Exactly what I've been looking for.. but can anyone recommend similar > companies in the US, with similar stuff for sale? A look in Maplins catalog showed the kits are by Maxitronix. A Google search turned up a number of hits, including: http://http://www.sciplus.com/category.cfm?subsection=2 -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 10 13:54:47 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:13 2005 Subject: Replacement tube for IBM 026 Printing Card Punch In-Reply-To: <20020609231036.80637.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020610185447.33516.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Lawson wrote: > Hey Ethan, this is cool! > > While there has been a great deal of sage advice, speculation, > maybes, and 'try this' posts concerning the 026 - yours is the first > positive lead. A follow-up: Looking at the notes on the "IBM Wiring Diagram", number 228005-5, E.C. #203242, "Machine - Printing Card Punch, Model 026" which I found in the base of mine, there are notes on the 4th leaf (it's one long folded sheet) in Roman Numerals: X All tubes are 25L6's XI All bias resistors are 56K, .5W, part no. 301149 All screen resistors are 4.7K, 1W, part no 169129 unless otherwise noted All grid protection resistors are 10K, 1W part no 184093 XII Tube #8 and relay 53 are used only on machines with comb. keyboards XIII ----- - - ------ indicates wiring when comb. keyboard used XIV -- -- -- -- -- indicates wiring when num. keyboard used XV =====o===== indicates solid bar common XVI The marked NC terminal on the switch is the terminal wired as shown XVII Resistor common not wired as shown A couple of things: it explicitly says all tubes are "25L6" and that only tube 8 is optional, depending on configuration. From looking at the rest of the wiring chart, I can see all the tubes in use except for 6, the one that Sellam seems to be missing. The tubes seem to drive various relays thusly: 1 Escape Interlock 2 Release(?) 3 Escape Magnet 4 Skip 5 Dup 6 ? 7 Punch Clutch 8 Alpha Field (with comb. keyboard) 9 Print Sup Magnet 10 Print No mention of tube 6. :-( -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 10 13:56:43 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:13 2005 Subject: 50 & 68 pin SCSI-2 In-Reply-To: <20020610153342.66620.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020610185643.33794.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Loboyko Steve wrote: > An even better trick than this is to use 80-pin SCA > SCSI drives... You can pick up SCA 80-pin drives very, > very cheap or free, even new ones, because most people > figure the interface to be "proprietary" and the drives > are very hard to sell. Yep. I have some nice 9GB SCA drives that drop right into my Sun hardware. Very happy with them. I've seen them go for 25%-30% of a narrow or wide drive from the same vendor, all because PeeCees don't use them. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From foo at siconic.com Mon Jun 10 15:27:45 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:13 2005 Subject: Replacement tube for IBM 026 Printing Card Punch In-Reply-To: <20020610185447.33516.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Jun 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > A follow-up: Looking at the notes on the "IBM Wiring Diagram", > number 228005-5, E.C. #203242, "Machine - Printing Card Punch, > Model 026" which I found in the base of mine, there are notes > on the 4th leaf (it's one long folded sheet) in Roman Numerals: > > X All tubes are 25L6's > XI All bias resistors are 56K, .5W, part no. 301149 > All screen resistors are 4.7K, 1W, part no 169129 unless > otherwise noted > All grid protection resistors are 10K, 1W part no 184093 > XII Tube #8 and relay 53 are used only on machines with > comb. keyboards > XIII ----- - - ------ indicates wiring when comb. keyboard used > XIV -- -- -- -- -- indicates wiring when num. keyboard used > XV =====o===== indicates solid bar common > XVI The marked NC terminal on the switch is the terminal > wired as shown > XVII Resistor common not wired as shown > > > A couple of things: it explicitly says all tubes are "25L6" and that > only tube 8 is optional, depending on configuration. From looking What is the "comb. keyboard"? Combination? At any rate, maybe I can move tube #8 into the #6 position and play around with it in that configuration and see what happens. > at the rest of the wiring chart, I can see all the tubes in use > except for 6, the one that Sellam seems to be missing. The tubes > seem to drive various relays thusly: > > 1 Escape Interlock > 2 Release(?) > 3 Escape Magnet > 4 Skip > 5 Dup > 6 ? > 7 Punch Clutch > 8 Alpha Field (with comb. keyboard) > 9 Print Sup Magnet > 10 Print > > No mention of tube 6. :-( Bummer. But that is some very solid information. Thanks for posting it. I should finally have time to track down that tube and replace it this week. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Jun 10 16:43:08 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:13 2005 Subject: Replacement tube for IBM 026 Printing Card Punch In-Reply-To: Sellam Ismail's message of "Mon, 10 Jun 2002 13:27:45 -0700 (PDT)" References: Message-ID: <200206102143.g5ALh8E3083558@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Sellam Ismail wrote: > What is the "comb. keyboard"? Combination? At any rate, maybe I can move > tube #8 into the #6 position and play around with it in that configuration > and see what happens. I'm thinking that 026 and 029 keypunches could be had with several types of keyboards. "Numeric" would only have numeric keys, because if numbers are all you want to punch then giving the operator the ability to easily punch letters and figures opens up all sorts of possibility for error. "Combination" would have a full keyboard that could be used to punch letters and figures as well as numbers. The 029 could be had with two different character sets as well, one commercial and one scientific. The differences were only in the keycap legends and what was printed on top of the card though; the same key positions produced the same punches on both. -Frank McConnell From spc at conman.org Mon Jun 10 17:41:14 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:13 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Jun 09, 2002 08:02:09 PM Message-ID: <200206102241.SAA28555@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Tony Duell once stated: > > > There is nothing like building something from scratch, and it works firt > > time out; if it doesn't, figuring out what the problem is. Can't get > > Agreed. Learning to troubleshoot encourages you to think logically. These > days almost nobody seems to be able to think in a logical manner (as in, > do something, see what the results are, then plan your next action based > on those results). It's a great pity. > > And of course the feeling when something you've built -- however simple > -- works is impossible to describe. I came across this site the other day, and while it has little to do with 10 year old computers, it does, however, give instructions for building a lot of simple ``toys'' (with parts from around the house, or available anywhere for a few bucks) to explain physical, electrical and chemical phenomenon: http://www.scitoys.com/ -spc (A working motor with only a battery and wire, for instance ... ) From coredump at gifford.co.uk Mon Jun 10 16:16:41 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:13 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack References: <20020608033713.55149.qmail@web11807.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D051739.7313C72D@gifford.co.uk> Loboyko Steve wrote: > RS is an ABSOLUTE last resort for anything. I'd rather > wait a week by mail order most of the time. Wait a week? The professional electronics suppliers over here offer next-day service as a matter of routine. If you pay extra, they'll guarantee to deliver by 9am. Do U.S. suppliers not offer that? -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 10 16:48:07 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:13 2005 Subject: [OT] measuring DC wall wart In-Reply-To: from "Chris" at Jun 9, 2 08:55:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 970 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020610/1e6a4050/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 10 17:26:41 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:13 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <200206100822.JAA26656@citadel.metropolis.local> from "Stan Barr" at Jun 10, 2 09:22:34 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1520 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020610/255d9817/attachment.ksh From mythtech at mac.com Mon Jun 10 18:25:30 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:13 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack Message-ID: >Wait a week? The professional electronics suppliers over >here offer next-day service as a matter of routine. If >you pay extra, they'll guarantee to deliver by 9am. > >Do U.S. suppliers not offer that? I know I can get that with MCM Electronics, but usually next day is really next next day (for some reason whenever I try to do next day, they screw it up and it doesn't ship until the next day, making it 2 day delivery). My only problems with dealing with other sources than Rat Shack, is when I need one or two cheap items. Sure, RS charges more for the item, but when I am talking about $2 parts, the shipping alone will cost more than the higher rate RS is charging. The other issue is some mail order warehouses have minimum order prices. So again, when you only need $4 worth of parts, but they have a minimum of $25 orders, RS starts to look better and better. (I can drive 5 minutes to the Mall, ignore the sales drones, pay $6 for $4 worth of items, and get my project done today... or I can mail order the parts, pay $25 for $35 worth of stuff where I only NEED $4 of it right now, plus $7 on shipping, and wait a week, or $25 on shipping and get it "next day", and finish my project in two days to a week). Needless to say, Rat Shack still gets a chunk of my business... although I do try to pool projects so I can make the $25 minimum order, and then just use ground shipping and wait a week. But there are times when that just isn't reasonable to fit my deadlines. -chris From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Jun 10 14:42:13 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:13 2005 Subject: [OT] measuring DC wall wart In-Reply-To: References: from "Chris" at Jun 9, 2 08:55:40 pm Message-ID: <20020610233710.OJXE3699.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Although, as I am sure you know, these 'water dimmers' were used (in my > lifetime, just) for full-sized theatre lights, running directly off the > mains. Topping them up when live was dangerous. As was finding the darn > things nearly boiling during a play. What reasons for using water dimmers and how big they're like? What very interesting time! Cheers, Wizard > > > -tony > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jun 10 19:14:06 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:13 2005 Subject: Fwd: Hercules InColor Card needed Message-ID: Here's something I just got...maybe someone here can help him out. Jeff >Status: U >Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 19:42:00 -0400 >From: "Eric Einem" >To: >Subject: Hercules InColor Card needed > >Dear Jeff Hellinge, > >Hercules InColor Card needed. > >I am in need of five Hercules InColor EGA Cards (P/N GB222). I am >willing to pay $100 each for one or more. > >Do you have any of these adaptors you could sell? > >Thanks, > >Eric Einem >CSTS, Inc >hopeful@einem.us >714-961-2787 ext. 208 -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jun 10 20:07:10 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:13 2005 Subject: Fwd: Hercules InColor Card needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Jun 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Here's something I just got...maybe someone here can help him out. > > Jeff > > >From: "Eric Einem" > >To: > >Subject: Hercules InColor Card needed > > > >I am in need of five Hercules InColor EGA Cards (P/N GB222). I am > >willing to pay $100 each for one or more. > > > >Do you have any of these adaptors you could sell? These are kinda scarce these days, since like most PC hardware, they were trashed them folks considered em "obsolete"... Generic EGA cards can of course still be easily found, but Hercules EGA cards don't turn up all that much anymore. -Toth From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jun 10 20:55:50 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:13 2005 Subject: ADM-3A t erminal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For those that might be interested, there's currently an ADM-3A terminal for sale on eBay, starting at $19.99. The auction has 3 hours to go and no bids. The seller states it is not functioning and that it has a blown fuse. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2029715378 Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mythtech at mac.com Mon Jun 10 21:45:27 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:13 2005 Subject: [OT] measuring DC wall wart Message-ID: >It works better if you use AC, since then you don't get (permanent) >electrolysis of the solution. If you want a safe demonstration, use a few >volts AC from a double-wound transformer. Since I only needed it to work for a few minutes to show the concept, I knew I could get away with the MUCH safer DC current (at least much safer in the eyes of the collage and their liability insurance. It's easy to convince someone they won't be electrocuted by playing with water and a 9 volt battery... not as easy to convince them of that with anything that plugs into a wall). And to get it to work again really only involved pulling the metal plates out of the jar, rubbing them clean, and then replacing the water with a fresh batch of tap water and salt. So it did well for its purpose, and the teacher was happy that he could keep it and "reset" it to show other classes. >Although, as I am sure you know, these 'water dimmers' were used (in my >lifetime, just) for full-sized theatre lights, running directly off the >mains. Topping them up when live was dangerous. As was finding the darn >things nearly boiling during a play. Yup... we were studying different dimmer technologies that have been around. The one I wanted to make, but couldn't get to work right (probably not enough power, and I wasn't about to start messing with the levels needed), was "carbon nail" dimmers, for lack of the correct term that I can't think of right now (and all my theater books are in my parent's basement, so I can't look them up). These were pretty much the direct design predecessor to slightly more modern resistance dimmers. The concept was a whole bunch of nails were driven into a wheel, and they all hit a center wheel where the power wire was attached. Based on which nail the circuit was completed thru, the power had to go thru more and more of the only slightly conductive metal, so the lights got brighter and dimmer as you rolled the wheel and changed which nail was the contact point. Apparently, they were rather dangerous, as the nails all had some carbon powder on them, and it would flake off and release as a dust as they were used. The nails also had a tendency to go bad while in use, and you had to pull out the old one, and hammer in a new one. That could cause much shorting (usually thru the person wielding the hammer), and tended to cause the fine carbon powder to flash. Can't say I have any personal experience with them, so the above "dangers" are purely what I remember reading in the books. -chris From mythtech at mac.com Mon Jun 10 21:52:20 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:13 2005 Subject: [OT] measuring DC wall wart Message-ID: >What reasons for using water dimmers and how big they're like? I think the reason was simply lack of a better design at the time. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 10 22:59:45 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:13 2005 Subject: Help needed with PSU for DEC "Leprechaun" box Message-ID: <20020611035945.35949.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> I have these two external drive cases, once called "Leprechaun boxes"; one held an external RD52 and one held an external TK50 - same enclosure, same PSU, different cable transition header at the back. The problem is that every one of these that I've ever seen has had the PSU die. One of these was repaired by my order (with company funds!) about 15 years ago by ESS. I don't fancy a professional replacement at this stage. I do not have schematics. I do not not understand switching PSUs well enough to do more than take stabs. I know they involve high voltage, high-frequency oscillations, but that doesn't help me fix them. :-( Is anyone on the list familiar with these enough to suggest common failure modes? If the case were a wee bit taller and wider, I'd consider putting a commodity PSU in the cage. Don't think there's room for one in there, though. Not desktop sized, anyway. Anyone have ratings for the Leprechaun box? Looks like .45A @ 125V from the back, which tells me that it's not a strong PSU (~60W max draw, so probably no more than 40-50W pull, I'd guess). I wish I'd bought more of these $5 tiny cases at Dayton a couple of years ago - the PSUs will fit into your palm and provide at least that much current (enough to drive a small PeeCee motherboard and a 3.5" drive). Thanks for any assistance. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Mon Jun 10 23:54:16 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:13 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack Message-ID: <20020611050641.XUVR21266.imf08bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Bill Bradford > Exactly what I've been looking for.. but can anyone recommend similar > companies in the US, with similar stuff for sale? Check the MCM catalog under "Reference and Education." They sell a wide variety of educational single-purpose kits, and two or three of the "zillion-in-one" variety. Caution: they aren't cheap. Nothing MCM sells anymore is cheap, with the exception of semiconductors. Glen 0/0 From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Jun 10 17:22:21 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:13 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] WTD: Datasheets for old Sierra modem ICs Message-ID: <005f01c210cd$4ab04000$bda6f13e@phoenix> Hi, I've just finished pulling an old Sierra Semiconductor FSK modem chipset off an old modem board and I've hit a brick wall - I can't get any datasheets. Sierra (now known as PMC-Sierra) don't have the datasheets, their disti (Memec) don't have them... The only site/company that does have them is FreeTradeZone (www.freetradezone.com), but I don't fancy paying $10,000 per year for maybe two or three datasheets a year. BTW, the ICs are: SC11011 SC11026 SC22201 Anyone got datasheets for these things lying around? Finally, anyone know how to straighten pins on a QFP packaged IC without breaking them? I've got a Motorola DSP (QFP100 package) but I managed to bend some of the pins when I desoldered it... Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Jun 10 17:29:14 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:13 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] WTD: Microprocessor trainers/SBCs Message-ID: <006701c210ce$40859980$bda6f13e@phoenix> Hi, I've been bitten by the collecting bug - I've got three "vintage" computers and now I want more... Sooo... Anyone got any single-board computers/microprocessor trainers they can bear to part with? I'm aiming for the following SBCs in particular, but I'm interested in anything that's either single board or fairly small (interconnected Eurocards? Think "Acorn" then think "System 1"). And now for the wants list: Synertek SYM-1 or SY-VIM-1 MOS KIM-1 Rockwell AIM65 (with or without printer, with or without case) Compukit UK101 Anyone with any of these machines fancy parting with them? Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Jun 11 01:11:28 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:13 2005 Subject: WTD: Datasheets for old Sierra modem ICs Message-ID: <003001c2110e$d38c5940$bda6f13e@phoenix> Hi, I've just finished pulling an old Sierra Semiconductor FSK modem chipset off an old modem board and I've hit a brick wall - I can't get any datasheets. Sierra (now known as PMC-Sierra) don't have the datasheets, their disti (Memec) don't have them... The only site/company that does have them is FreeTradeZone (www.freetradezone.com), but I don't fancy paying $10,000 per year for maybe two or three datasheets a year. BTW, the ICs are: SC11011 SC11026 SC22201 Anyone got datasheets for these things lying around? Finally, anyone know how to straighten pins on a QFP packaged IC without breaking them? I've got a Motorola DSP (QFP100 package) but I managed to bend some of the pins when I desoldered it... Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Jun 11 01:12:02 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:13 2005 Subject: WTD: Microprocessor trainers/SBCs Message-ID: <003c01c2110e$e7394660$bda6f13e@phoenix> Hi, I've been bitten by the collecting bug - I've got three "vintage" computers and now I want more... Sooo... Anyone got any single-board computers/microprocessor trainers they can bear to part with? I'm aiming for the following SBCs in particular, but I'm interested in anything that's either single board or fairly small (interconnected Eurocards? Think "Acorn" then think "System 1"). And now for the wants list: Synertek SYM-1 or SY-VIM-1 MOS KIM-1 Rockwell AIM65 (with or without printer, with or without case) Compukit UK101 Anyone with any of these machines fancy parting with them? Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Jun 11 01:54:46 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:13 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] WTD: Datasheets for old Sierra modem ICs In-Reply-To: <005f01c210cd$4ab04000$bda6f13e@phoenix> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020610235437.00ac0c50@mail.zipcon.net> http://www.chipinfo.ru/e/Russian site but now also in English. http://www.icmaster.com/Registration is needed in advance. http://www.questlink.com/Registration is needed before you can download datasheets. Chips can sometimes be ordered via Arrow/Avnet. http://www.semidex.com/Specializing in memory IC*'s and boards. For more data about the above WWW sites and for more information sites. http://www.findchips.com/Do a search at 20+ distributors at once! http://www.netcomponents.com/Do a search for scarce chips at many brokers at once! At 11:22 PM 6/10/02 +0100, you wrote: >Hi, > I've just finished pulling an old Sierra Semiconductor FSK modem chipset >off an old modem board and I've hit a brick wall - I can't get any >datasheets. Sierra (now known as PMC-Sierra) don't have the datasheets, >their disti (Memec) don't have them... > The only site/company that does have them is FreeTradeZone >(www.freetradezone.com), but I don't fancy paying $10,000 per year for maybe >two or three datasheets a year. > BTW, the ICs are: > SC11011 > SC11026 > SC22201 > >Anyone got datasheets for these things lying around? >Finally, anyone know how to straighten pins on a QFP packaged IC without >breaking them? I've got a Motorola DSP (QFP100 package) but I managed to >bend some of the pins when I desoldered it... > >Thanks. >-- >Phil. >philpem@dsl.pipex.com >http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ > >_______________________________________________ >cctech mailing list >cctech@classiccmp.org >http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jun 11 01:41:20 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:13 2005 Subject: FS: Mac OS & Docs in shrinkwrap Message-ID: I found this at the thrift store today & grabbed it, but I figure one of the serious Mac collectors will get more enjoyment from it than I would. So, I'll see if there's any interest here before putting it out on eBay. Can you say "Ultr@R@RE!!"? If you're interested, make me an offer off-list. Since it's sealed, I can't tell much about it. It is 2 spiral-bound books in a sleeve, with 2-4 3.5" floppies inside the sleeve front and back. The front of the sleeve is forest green with white foreground. "Macintosh" is printed up the right edge. The Apple logo appears at top left, and below that is: Includes: Getting Started With Your Macintosh Macintosh Reference System Software Disks The reverse side is white background w/ black print, with three overlapping screenshots (B&W) of the Mac desktop. In print: Macintosh System Software The disks in this package contain the latest version of the Macintosh System Software. For more information about installing and protecting the information on these disks, see the setup instructions in the #1 book and the *Macintosh Reference*. [ * * = in italics] The books in this package cover information common t all models of Macintosh computers. *Getting Started With Your Macintosh* is a tutorial,intended for new Macintosh users, that describes how to do basic Macintosh tasks. The *Macintosh Reference* is a comprehensive hardware and system software reference book; it is designed to help all users locate "how to" information quickly and easily. ________________ | | | | | _______|_______ | | | --------| | [Screenshots w/no "Finder" icon or | _______|______ clock at top right] | | | -------| | | | | | -------------- "914-0520-A" is printed in the lower-right corner. Doc From foo at siconic.com Tue Jun 11 10:33:45 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:13 2005 Subject: New IBM system stores 25 times as much data as hard drives Message-ID: Here's a new technology with a classic twist: http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/business/3444884.htm IBM invented a medium based in part on scanning electronic microscope technology that creates tiny indentations or holes on a polymer. Each whole is "half a billionth of an inch" in diameter. The storage density is purported to be 25 times that of current hard disk technology (200 CD ROMs on a stamp). This is amazing. The technology is being compared to punch cards. Check out the article above soon as the full-text goes away after a day or so. I see this as one of the most significant inventions of the modern (i.e. < 10 years) computer age because it represents a high-density, long term storage media that can be reliably used for non-volatile archival data storage. And based on mechanical technology. Who woulda thunk? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Jun 11 13:10:06 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:13 2005 Subject: E&S things Message-ID: First, a question. I've got a pair of E&S digitizer tablets, twiddle boxes, and keyboards. The tablets are supposedly RS-232 and use an 8pin minidin. Is that the same type as Macs and Sun IPCs use? If not, does anyone know a pinout? The twiddle boxes and keyboards use 'RJ45' 8-pin modular connectors. Does anyone have the pinout for those, and know if they're just RS-232 or ...? I have a single box that will take a few peripherals plugged into it (kb, mouse, digitizer, twiddle box, other things I don't have), and connect to the E&S PS/390 I'm guessing. Anyone have a pinout for the 'uplink' connector on that? I think the connector is a DB25F, so it might just be plain RS-232 (which is my hope). Next: I've got some stuff I got that I have no use for. First offer for $10 + box + shipping gets each item. (Covers what I paid for them) Item 1: E&S PS/390 'scope' monitor cables. 9-track 10" magtape that is the VAX host software for interfacing with the PS-390s. A pair of 5.25" floppy disks that are copies of the software that runs on the PS-390s. If you're intersted, I can see what the label exactly reads Item 2: Manual: PS 390 Advanced Programming (marked AP) Manual: PS 390 Reference Material (RM) Manual: PS 390 Graphics Tutorial (GT) Manual: PS 390 Introduction and Support (IS) Manual: PS 390 Tools and Techniques (TT) All the manuals are in binders and are thick and heavy. Thanks -- Pat From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 11 12:57:33 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:13 2005 Subject: [OT] measuring DC wall wart In-Reply-To: <20020610233710.OJXE3699.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Jun 10, 2 07:42:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 661 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020611/86055023/attachment.ksh From celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk Tue Jun 11 13:20:44 2002 From: celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:13 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] VT525 questions? References: <20020605203919.D82509-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <3D063F7C.FD4C9C0A@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> James Willing wrote: > > Greetings; > > Just picked up a handful of VT525 terminals, and have a couple of > questions. (can't find a darn hardware manual online for this > thing) Some of the VT500 manuals are still available from HP/Compaq, but the catalog[1] doesn't list hardware manuals for them. > 1) What is the front opening 'cartridge slot' for? At a guess, it's either for the EZ-SetUp cartridge, which enabled admins to configure terminals without wading through the set-up screens, or it could be for cartridges for other emulations. I know that other emulations, including IBM terminals, were planned, but I don't know whether they shipped. [1] http://www.compaq.com/CAS-Catalog/das04ahm.html - Paul From celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk Tue Jun 11 13:28:47 2002 From: celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:13 2005 Subject: HP 9826 and 9836 BASIC manuals available in UK Message-ID: <3D06415F.67B3F46A@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> I've stumbled across two ring binders containing the following manuals: 09826-90010, "BASIC Programming Techniques for the HP 9826 and 9836 Computers", February 1982 09826-90055, "BASIC Language Reference for the HP 9826 and 9836 Computers", February 1982 They are no use to me, so they can be yours for the cost of postage. Excluding the binders, they weigh less than 2.5kg. Any swaps for terminal documentation would be most welcome. - Paul From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 11 13:41:46 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: Anyone have the pinout for a 9328 (shift register?) Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 635 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020611/1cf3b6f8/attachment.ksh From celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk Tue Jun 11 13:49:30 2002 From: celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] VT525 questions? References: <20020605203919.D82509-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <3D06463A.2E2F4C30@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> If only I'd looked at the manual before answering the first time ... James Willing wrote: > > Just picked up a handful of VT525 terminals, and have a couple of > questions. > > 1) What is the front opening 'cartridge slot' for? The VT520/VT525 Video Terminal Programmer Information says: --quote-- All VT520 models include support for a 4 Mbit (512 KByte) ROM cartridge option. The base unit comes with a factory-installed ROM. The ROM cartridge connector is protected by a ROM cartridge cover. To install new code, the ROM cartridge cover is removed, and a ROM cartridge with attached cover is plugged into the ROM connector. The new code completely supersedes the factory-installed ROM code. It does not overlay or extend the factory code. --unquote-- That leaves me wondering where the EZ-SetUp cartridge was supposed to go. Perhaps that cartridge contained ROM and NVRAM. Who knows? I've certainly never seen one. - Paul From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 11 13:55:51 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: Help needed with PSU for DEC "Leprechaun" box In-Reply-To: <20020611035945.35949.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jun 10, 2 08:59:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2351 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020611/a9312914/attachment.ksh From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 11 14:23:18 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: Help needed with PSU for DEC "Leprechaun" box In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020611192318.38798.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > I have these two external drive cases, once called "Leprechaun boxes"; > > I think I have one too. A metal box with plastic front and back panels. > It contains (in my case) an RD53, the PSU and a little PCB carrying the > on-line and write-protect swtiches... Precisely. The little PCB for the box I was playing with last night happens to be plumbed for two write-protect lights and no switches (external RX50 case for an RUX50 controller - boy was that expensive new, but we had to make distro floppies from our 11/750). Different innards had different front and back boards. > Alas mine was modified by the > previous owner so those don't connect to anything -- I fitted a DD50 > socket on the back (the cutout was clearly designed to take one) > connected to the drive's edge connectors. Done that, too. I removed the board with 3 x DD50 and replaced it with a DD50 cable from an old Sun3 monster external drive box and a homemade panel for SCSI select switches. I was using it for DAT and CD-ROM on my SPARC1 until the PSU died. Lately, it's been a mouse-pad stand for my SPARC5. :-P I intend to return it to "normal" service once I get a working PSU. > Could this be the same unit? If so, I will try to find it and look at the > PSU for you. Almost certainly. It has a 3-pin Molex connector with D-shaped pins for keys as the mains input, a 6-pin .1" connector with two wires going to the 115V/230V selector, and a multi-pin heavy-duty connector like in a BA23 with a harness to the contents. If your PSU looks much different, then there are only external similarities. > > The problem is that every one of these that I've ever seen has had the > > PSU die > > I assume there are no outputs at all, and that the PSU does not make the > 'tweet tweet' noise of an SMPUS that's attempting to start, finding > problems, and shutting down repeatedly. No output on +5 or +12. There _might_ be a single tweet, but not a series of tweets indicating a dead-nasty-short condition. I did get a tingle (when the mains were disconnected and the board was on the table!) between two of the heat sinks, so I know _something_ is alive in there. > First check, the interal mains fuse. You'rs not just looking to see if it > has blown... Good advice, but not in this situation. There is no fuse in my box. There is a circuit breaker in the back of the enclosure that interrupts power to the inside of the PSU cage. I have mains voltage at the inputs to the PSU board. The power switch does turn it on and off. > 3) It's OK. Most likely the startup resistor is open-circuit. Look for a > resisotr of a few hunderd kilohms connected between the +ve side of the > mains smoothing capacitor and a point deep in the circuitry. Make sure > it's not open. This is a very common problem with SMPSUs, BTW. OK. Large (1W)? small (1/8W)? There are two largish capacitors, 470uF and marked 200 WV, whatever a WV is (Watt-Volt?) I have multiple PSUs. In the one, the top of one of these caps seemed inflated, so I thought it might be blown. I removed it, but the bottom shows no physical distortion. The plastic top seems to have some light pressure behind it. I pulled a cap of the same value from another PSU in a different location, inspected it and installed it. No change. I have a hand-held capacitance meter, but it peaks at 200uF and it seems to not like polarized caps. The cap inputs are not marked +/- in any way. > Anyway, let me know the state of the fuse and if necessary I'll dig out > my unit (if it's the same) and look at the PSU. Even though it is a voltage-selectable PSU, perhaps we may not have the same unit. I'll see about getting some pictures up on a web page. Not sure if I can manage that tonight. I need this box at work with me tomorrow, so I was going to embed a wall wart in the PSU cage to get me through a presentation tomorrow night (running a Vacuum Flourescent Display at a Linux SIG meeting/Mozilla Party). I do want to learn more about the PSU so I can fix all three. I just don't know how much I can do this week. Thanks! -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 11 14:28:25 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: Any Prime collectors out there? Message-ID: <20020611192825.39471.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> A buddy of mine gave me this external Exabyte drive in a Prime SCSI cabinet - it's about twice as long as you'd expect, but about the same crossection as anyone's external dual-height 5.25" enclosure. Inside, two screws hold a unit in place that pops out - some kind of Prime quick-change connector arrangement - a 50-pin SCSI connector and a strange bakelite power connector that have huge locator pins for when you slide the drive home. If this sounds familiar to anyone, speak up. It's amazingly heavy, even with the drive/drive-cage removed. I suspect the PSU is linear and that there's 3kg of iron laminate in the back! -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From stanb at dial.pipex.com Tue Jun 11 07:23:56 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 10 Jun 2002 23:26:41 BST." Message-ID: <200206111223.NAA07882@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) said: > > > Agreed. I have never seen an experimental kit that covers computer > > > interfacing. Maybe somebody should design one. Of course getting it to > > > pass the EMC regulations (which are mandatory in the UK, even for kits) > > > would be the expensive part :-( > > > > An exemption was negotiated for kits of parts, otherwise our kit industry > > Not AFAIK. There is no exemption in the UK for constructional kits (the > ruling is that a kit, assembled according to the instructions, has to > comply with all the appropriate directives). Nor is there an exemption > for one-offs, even if only used by the constructor (!). Tony: At a question and answer session with the Radio Communications Agnecy in 1996 when the legislation was being enacted, they stated that "Amatuer radio apparatus is outside the scope of the EMC Directive 89/336/EEC so long as it is not offered commercially for sale. If the kit, ie a set of parts, is assembled by an amateur radio operator, it does not have to comply." Also : "Q: Is the home construction of non amateur radio electronic equipment exempt from compliance with the legislation? A: Not in the full sense, but again as above, the UK EMC Regulations do not say the constructor has to demonstrate compliance for taking into service. The kit is not being placed on the market in its finished form, but when it is complete is being taken into service." In other words it is the constructor who's responsible for the finished product, not the supplier of the parts, and home built equipment doesn't have to comply. They also had in mind the absurd situation whereby you could build something from instrucions in a magazine, but a company couldn't sell you all the parts with instructions! IIRC there are also specific exemptions for educational/training equipment e.g. Open University etc. You can judge that the situation was satisfactorally resolved by looking at the large number of kit manufacturers in this country. The EC don't 'arf make thing difficult!! ;-) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Jun 11 14:33:32 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: Any Prime collectors out there? Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E0178470D@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:erd_6502@yahoo.com] > A buddy of mine gave me this external Exabyte drive in a Prime SCSI [snip] > If this sounds familiar to anyone, speak up. It's amazingly heavy, > even with the drive/drive-cage removed. I suspect the PSU is > linear and that there's 3kg of iron laminate in the back! Well, my Prime (still in new england right now) is supposed to have one of these. Doug Q. might be able to tell you something about it ;) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL "Confutatis maledictus, flammis acribus addictus, voca me cum benedictis. Oro supplex et acclinis, cor contritunt quasi cinis, gere curarn mei finis." -Requiem -------------- next part -------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this message is proprietary of Amdocs, protected from disclosure, and may be privileged. The information is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s) of the message. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, use, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mythtech at mac.com Tue Jun 11 14:44:11 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: E&S things Message-ID: >The tablets are supposedly RS-232 and use an 8pin minidin. Is that the >same type as Macs and Sun IPCs use? The Mac Plus and beyond use an 8 pin miniDin for serial. Also, the AV quadras, and many of the PowerMacs use a 9 pin miniDin (same pinout as the 8 pin, but with an extra 9th pin added that IIRC, just carries voltage for powering "GeoPort" devices). The 9 pin version is backwards compatible with 8 pin cables/devices. The Mac pinout is pretty well documented, and a quick search on Google should turn up a number of hits (if you have a problem finding a pinout, let me know, I have it here somewhere). -chris From marvin at rain.org Tue Jun 11 14:47:01 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: Anyone have the pinout for a 9328 (shift register?) References: Message-ID: <3D0653B5.FCE68171@rain.org> The Fairchild 9328 is a TTL/MSI Dual 8-bit Shift Register. I scanned the first page and you can get it at: http://www.rain.org/~marvin/9328A.tif or http://www.rain.org/~marvin/9328A.JPG The TIF scan is about 2.3 Mb, and the JPG is about 950K in size at 200 DPI. Besides the pinout, it shows the block diagram of the chip. If this is too large for your connection, let me know and I'll see what I can do to reduce it. Let me know when you have it so I can remove it from my limited web space. Tony Duell wrote: > > Does anyone have the pinout for a chip marked '9328' (and that's not the > date code :-) -- the unit I am repairing dates from 1974, and the design > dates from a couple of years before that). It's a 16 pin DIL package, > made by Fairchild (I think), and I believe it's a dual 8 bit shift > register, something like 2 7491s in the same package. With only 16 pins > it's got to be serial in serial out only, I guess. > > Anyway, if anyone has an old databook listing this chip (TI never made an > equivalent, so my early TI TTL databook is no help), could they e-mail me > a list of pins and their names. > > Thanks in advance for any help > > -tony From fb007b4157_2 at blueyonder.co.uk Tue Jun 11 15:10:33 2002 From: fb007b4157_2 at blueyonder.co.uk (Francis Bell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: Free stuff in Mid Wales References: <3D03D2F0.99D9E0F1@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <3D065939.3090806@blueyonder.co.uk> Thanks for giving it a go, did you get a reply ? I have successfully downloaded RT-11 v5.3 from the net and I can sysgen it for DU and DL devices - no support for the DELUA, sadly - I think that might have been included in the DECNET disk which was offered separately. I have the DECNET disk on an RL01, but the kermit I have doesn't support fetching the disk image - at least via "get DL0:". So I can't get a copy of DECNET into the emulator. I have sysgen'd OK in the emulator, but I now have the problem of getting the resulting file out of the emulator and into the '11. The emulator writes to a single binary file in Linux, which is an image of a whole disk. I don't know whether my version of kermit-11 will write to the raw device DL1: a bloke on the net reckons this is possible, but I haven't tried it ... it is a big step to take because it means overwriting a whole platter, and I don't have (m)any to spare. Also, another problem has appeared - out of 3 RL01 drives, only one is working at the moment. I can't figure out what is wrong with the other ones, but it's going to make transferring this file system somewhat difficult. I'd have to boot from a working RL01 with an O/S and kermit and overwrite both the O/S and kermit with the new version of the O/S. I tool the DELUA out of the system to see whether it was interfering with RL-11 (RL01 controller) and somehow causing a disk problem, but it didn't make any difference. I'm going to look at RSX-11 to see whather that will support the DELUA, if not then at worst I might have to look for a DEUNA. The various comms manuals contain dire warnings about the earlier -11s not being able to keep up with the DELUA anyway. If you have the time sometime to come over and read the RL01 circuits for me then that would be very helpful. (Of course, the ideal way to go would be to get a pair of RL02's but of course they're rarer than hen's teeth). Fran John Honniball wrote: > Peter Joules wrote: > >>Due to a move to a smaller house, I am having to consider letting go of >>some of my toys :( >> >>The following is available, free to a good home: >> >>2 Sun 386i (boxes only, no HDD dead or dying NVRAM) >>2 x PDP11 rackmount CPUs >>2 BBC Bs > > > Did I send you an e-mail about the PDPs and/or BBCs? Only > I've been messing about with a friend's PDP-11/34 and sorting > out my e-mails, not to mention being offered a PDP-8. Are > any of these things still available? > > -- > John Honniball > coredump@gifford.co.uk > > > From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Jun 11 15:12:54 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: E&S things In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The following have been spoken for: On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > Item 1: > > 9-track 10" magtape that is the VAX host software for interfacing with > the PS-390s. A pair of 5.25" floppy disks that are copies of the > software that runs on the PS-390s. If you're intersted, I can see what > the label exactly reads > > Item 2: > > Manual: PS 390 Advanced Programming (marked AP) > Manual: PS 390 Reference Material (RM) > Manual: PS 390 Graphics Tutorial (GT) > Manual: PS 390 Introduction and Support (IS) > Manual: PS 390 Tools and Techniques (TT) > > All the manuals are in binders and are thick and heavy. I still have the 'scope' monitor cables if anyone wants them, let me know. -- Pat From rschaefe at gcfn.org Tue Jun 11 16:38:31 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: Fw: Free or Best Offer: VAX and RS/6000 hardware Message-ID: <003d01c21190$55c91700$b6469280@y5f3q8> Just came across this... replys to the original author, please. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Sandmann" Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.os.vms,misc.forsale.computers.workstation Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 04:59 PM Subject: Free or Best Offer: VAX and RS/6000 hardware > Early 90's vintage DEC VAX systems and peripherals, IBM RS/6000 parts. > > http://clio.rice.edu/freehw.txt > > Other items lying around my office since I created the list may also be > available (hard disks, Alpha systems with dead power supplies, etc). > > Pickup in far west Houston, Texas, USA. I would prefer to support > VMS hobby usage, but anyone who shows up to take the big stuff gets it. > > I don't have time to package or ship anything, but if you are really > desperate for something I might be able to find someone for you to > negotiate with. From rschaefe at gcfn.org Tue Jun 11 16:50:07 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: Free or Best Offer: VAX and RS/6000 hardware References: <003d01c21190$55c91700$b6469280@y5f3q8> Message-ID: <005901c21191$f4e6ed20$b6469280@y5f3q8> Well, bad karma for replying to my own mail, but I noticed he's got a few Q-bus SCSI cards listed. Whoever picks up this lot, please forward one to me. Doc, you're around there, aren't you? Postage due is fine. ^_^ Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Schaefer" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 05:38 PM Subject: Fw: Free or Best Offer: VAX and RS/6000 hardware > Just came across this... > > replys to the original author, please. > > Bob > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charles Sandmann" > Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.os.vms,misc.forsale.computers.workstation > Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 04:59 PM > Subject: Free or Best Offer: VAX and RS/6000 hardware > > > > Early 90's vintage DEC VAX systems and peripherals, IBM RS/6000 parts. > > > > http://clio.rice.edu/freehw.txt > > > > Other items lying around my office since I created the list may also be > > available (hard disks, Alpha systems with dead power supplies, etc). > > > > Pickup in far west Houston, Texas, USA. I would prefer to support > > VMS hobby usage, but anyone who shows up to take the big stuff gets it. > > > > I don't have time to package or ship anything, but if you are really > > desperate for something I might be able to find someone for you to > > negotiate with. From mbg at TheWorld.com Tue Jun 11 17:40:00 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: Free stuff in Mid Wales References: <3D03D2F0.99D9E0F1@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <200206112240.SAA1383377@shell.TheWorld.com> >I have successfully downloaded RT-11 v5.3 from the net >and I can sysgen it for DU and DL devices - no support >for the DELUA, sadly - I think that might have been >included in the DECNET disk which was offered separately. >I have the DECNET disk on an RL01, but the kermit >I have doesn't support fetching the disk image - at >least via "get DL0:". So I can't get a copy of DECNET >into the emulator. DEUNA/DELUA were not supported in V5.3, I believe... if they aren't there, they weren't supported. When the driver was supported, it went on a real distribution kit. The DEUNA/DELUA driver required some support (unibus map) which wasn't required by the strictly Qbus DEQNA/DELQA or CTI bus DECNA. Those drivers were available with V5.0, if I remember correctly. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jun 11 20:42:41 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: Free or Best Offer: VAX and RS/6000 hardware In-Reply-To: <005901c21191$f4e6ed20$b6469280@y5f3q8> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Robert Schaefer wrote: > Well, bad karma for replying to my own mail, but I noticed he's got a few > Q-bus SCSI cards listed. Whoever picks up this lot, please forward one to > me. Doc, you're around there, aren't you? Postage due is fine. ^_^ I think Toth is a lot closer. :) Seriously, that's a 2 1/2 hour drive from here. I might go, if nobody else is grabbing. I already have one of almost everything on the list, but hey. I can almost see my garage floor.... Doc From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Jun 11 20:49:23 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: [OT] measuring DC wall wart References: Message-ID: <3D06A8A3.C4A94B2E@jetnet.ab.ca> Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > Although, as I am sure you know, these 'water dimmers' were used (in my > > > lifetime, just) for full-sized theatre lights, running directly off the > > > mains. Topping them up when live was dangerous. As was finding the darn > > > things nearly boiling during a play. > > > > What reasons for using water dimmers and how big they're like? > > Well, there were no power semiconductors (or any semiconductors), large > thyratorns/ignitrons were darn expensive, and they were simpler and > easier to maintain than metalic resistors, I guess. > > The size depended on the power rating, but a couple of feet tall and > about 4 inches in diameter will give an idea. I would guess this was a 1890's invention. The only other light source at the time was electric arc for the stage, a big light source that uses a lot power. The only real new light source (LED's don't count) is sulfur globe ( and a few other trace elements ) that CONVERTS microwaves into visible light. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Jun 11 20:54:17 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: Free or Best Offer: VAX and RS/6000 hardware In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Doc wrote: > On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Robert Schaefer wrote: > > > Well, bad karma for replying to my own mail, but I noticed he's got a few > > Q-bus SCSI cards listed. Whoever picks up this lot, please forward one to > > me. Doc, you're around there, aren't you? Postage due is fine. ^_^ > > I think Toth is a lot closer. :) > Seriously, that's a 2 1/2 hour drive from here. I might go, if > nobody else is grabbing. I already have one of almost everything on the > list, but hey. I can almost see my garage floor.... > > Doc > > You wouldn't drive 2 1/2 hours for a QBUS SCSI card? Must be something wrong with you... Peter Wallace From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jun 11 20:59:05 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: VERY good weekend Message-ID: Well. I've been working on, and cleaning & testing, the weekend's finds. It was a nice haul. The aforementioned Macintosh System Software bundle, in shrinkwrap. Way too much, but it's eBay Bait from hell. $6.99 An Atari 1040ST with SC1224 display and mouse - works great, no burn-in, floppy reads & formats perfectly. $5.98 A Telex EB6 Dead Reckoning Computer. Telex still sells them, but I'm sure this one's at least 15 years old. Not a computer, but computerized, and the perfect ClassicCmp Collector's accessory -- 1991 Ford F-150 with Straight-6 EFI and overdrive manual transmission. It's on its 4th trip around the odometer. 328,755 true miles. Doc's in love. Free. By the time it's street legal I'll have $75 into it. Doc From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Tue Jun 11 21:13:31 2002 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: VERY good weekend References: Message-ID: <09ae01c211b6$c0646440$de2c67cb@helpdesk> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc Shipley" To: "Classic Computers" Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 11:29 AM Subject: VERY good weekend Been tied up with 'real world' activiites of late, just catching up after sifting through the back traffic..... > A Telex EB6 Dead Reckoning Computer. Telex still sells them, but I'm > sure this one's at least 15 years old. Is this electronic or the circular slide rule type? Pic? > Not a computer, but computerized, and the perfect ClassicCmp > Collector's accessory -- 1991 Ford F-150 with Straight-6 EFI and > overdrive manual transmission. It's on its 4th trip around the > odometer. 328,755 true miles. Doc's in love. Free. Well nobody can say the price wasn't good. > By the time it's street legal I'll have $75 into it. That much? Wow. :^) Nice catch..... Geoff in Oz From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jun 11 21:31:14 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: Free or Best Offer: VAX and RS/6000 hardware In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Doc wrote: > > > On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Robert Schaefer wrote: > > > > > Well, bad karma for replying to my own mail, but I noticed he's got a few > > > Q-bus SCSI cards listed. Whoever picks up this lot, please forward one to > > > me. Doc, you're around there, aren't you? Postage due is fine. ^_^ > > > > I think Toth is a lot closer. :) > > Seriously, that's a 2 1/2 hour drive from here. I might go, if > > nobody else is grabbing. I already have one of almost everything on the > > list, but hey. I can almost see my garage floor.... > > > > Doc > > > > > > You wouldn't drive 2 1/2 hours for a QBUS SCSI card? Of course I would! But since I have 2 already, I thought I'd let some others have a chance. :^) > Must be something wrong with you... _That_ has never been questioned. Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jun 11 21:35:29 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: VERY good weekend In-Reply-To: <09ae01c211b6$c0646440$de2c67cb@helpdesk> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Geoff Roberts wrote: > Been tied up with 'real world' activiites of late, just catching up after > sifting through the back traffic..... > > > A Telex EB6 Dead Reckoning Computer. Telex still sells them, but I'm > > sure this one's at least 15 years old. > > Is this electronic or the circular slide rule type? Pic? Circular slide rule. With docs. I've got a few things to scan this week, so I'll throw that in. > > Not a computer, but computerized, and the perfect ClassicCmp > > Collector's accessory -- 1991 Ford F-150 with Straight-6 EFI and > > overdrive manual transmission. It's on its 4th trip around the > > odometer. 328,755 true miles. Doc's in love. Free. > > Well nobody can say the price wasn't good. > > > By the time it's street legal I'll have $75 into it. > > That much? Wow. :^) Nice catch..... Lotsa history too. My little brother bought it new in '90. And I do love a big tall ride.... BTW, I got Twinax stuff for you. We got horribly busy at my real job, and the twinax stuff got back-burnered. I do have what I think you needed. More later, after I sort it. Doc From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Jun 11 21:57:15 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020612025715.GB1501@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Gene Buckle, from writings of Sat, Jun 08, 2002 at 07:24:38AM -0700: > he went into RS looking for a GaSFET and was promptly told that he might > have better luck in an auto parts store. Back when I was in high school, when a 1 farad capacitor would have been, physically, huge (probably about the size of an RS store, or something like that), one could telephone a RS store and ask for a 100 farad, 1KV, capacitor and the sales clerk would say "I'll check to see if we have any." -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jun 11 21:49:59 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <20020612025715.GB1501@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > Quothe Gene Buckle, from writings of Sat, Jun 08, 2002 at 07:24:38AM -0700: > > he went into RS looking for a GaSFET and was promptly told that he might > > have better luck in an auto parts store. > > Back when I was in high school, when a 1 farad capacitor would have > been, physically, huge (probably about the size of an RS store, or > something like that), one could telephone a RS store and ask for a 100 > farad, 1KV, capacitor and the sales clerk would say "I'll check to see > if we have any." Just a sanity check, here. What would be the _DC_ rating of a momentary switch rated at 3A, 125VAC? Doc From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Jun 11 22:09:22 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <3D0193A0.EED12E04@ccp.com> References: <5.0.0.25.0.20020607141121.03378da0@pc> <3D0193A0.EED12E04@ccp.com> Message-ID: <20020612030922.GC1501@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Gary Hildebrand, from writings of Sat, Jun 08, 2002 at 12:18:24AM -0500: > usually out of whatever you want. Those kids get paid minimum wage and > know minimum when it comes to anything other than cell phones and > stereos. Some don't know much about audio either. An RS salesdroid denied the fact that RS no longer sells Hi-Fi equipment. He didn't understand why a loudspeaker system with a low-end frequency response of 50Hz isn't considered hi-fi. Not one loudspeaker, or woofer, sold by RS, has a low end response of 20Hz or lower. No little charts anywhere in the catalog showed any freq. response curves. The distortion ratings for some of the "good" amplifiers sold at RS are rather high as well, but the RS sales clerk didn't understand that little problem either. As far as he was concerned, RS is still selling hi-fi equipment. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 11 19:04:29 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: Help needed with PSU for DEC "Leprechaun" box In-Reply-To: <20020611192318.38798.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jun 11, 2 12:23:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2811 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020612/bc505b83/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 11 19:15:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: Anyone have the pinout for a 9328 (shift register?) In-Reply-To: <3D0653B5.FCE68171@rain.org> from "Marvin Johnston" at Jun 11, 2 12:47:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 542 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020612/406fb5f7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 11 18:48:59 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <200206111223.NAA07882@citadel.metropolis.local> from "Stan Barr" at Jun 11, 2 01:23:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 5305 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020612/b9141e01/attachment.ksh From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Jun 11 22:03:00 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack References: Message-ID: <3D06B9E4.F5D92B@jetnet.ab.ca> Doc wrote: > > On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > > > Quothe Gene Buckle, from writings of Sat, Jun 08, 2002 at 07:24:38AM -0700: > > > he went into RS looking for a GaSFET and was promptly told that he might > > > have better luck in an auto parts store. > > > > Back when I was in high school, when a 1 farad capacitor would have > > been, physically, huge (probably about the size of an RS store, or > > something like that), one could telephone a RS store and ask for a 100 > > farad, 1KV, capacitor and the sales clerk would say "I'll check to see > > if we have any." > > Just a sanity check, here. What would be the _DC_ rating of a > momentary switch rated at 3A, 125VAC? > > Doc About 175 volts. Most 1 farad caps are rated at 5.5 volts. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Jun 11 22:07:42 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack References: <5.0.0.25.0.20020607141121.03378da0@pc> <3D0193A0.EED12E04@ccp.com> <20020612030922.GC1501@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3D06BAFE.4292C6F9@jetnet.ab.ca> "R. D. Davis" wrote: > Some don't know much about audio either. An RS salesdroid denied the > fact that RS no longer sells Hi-Fi equipment. He didn't understand > why a loudspeaker system with a low-end frequency response of 50Hz > isn't considered hi-fi. Not one loudspeaker, or woofer, sold by RS, > has a low end response of 20Hz or lower. No little charts anywhere in > the catalog showed any freq. response curves. The distortion ratings > for some of the "good" amplifiers sold at RS are rather high as well, > but the RS sales clerk didn't understand that little problem either. > As far as he was concerned, RS is still selling hi-fi equipment. In fact nobody that I know of sells low end Stereo equipment other than getto-blaster type stuff. From dan at ekoan.com Tue Jun 11 22:21:35 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <20020612025715.GB1501@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020611231252.03e10220@enigma> At 10:57 PM 6/11/02 -0400, you wrote: >Back when I was in high school, when a 1 farad capacitor would have >been, physically, huge (probably about the size of an RS store, or >something like that), For the terminally curious, a photo of a 1 farad capacitor mounted on a circuit board can be found at http://www.decodesystems.com/help-wanted/index.html#download > one could telephone a RS store and ask for a 100 >farad, 1KV, capacitor and the sales clerk would say "I'll check to see >if we have any." Gullibility aside, most of the RS clerks I run into these days are intimidated if you appear to know _anything_ about components. Once they realize that you actually know what all those little parts are used for they usually wander off. Of course, as previously noted here, it may also be that they realize they're not going to make much of a commission on you. Cheers, Dan http://www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Jun 11 22:25:55 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Doc wrote: > On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > > > Quothe Gene Buckle, from writings of Sat, Jun 08, 2002 at 07:24:38AM -0700: > > > he went into RS looking for a GaSFET and was promptly told that he might > > > have better luck in an auto parts store. > > > > Back when I was in high school, when a 1 farad capacitor would have > > been, physically, huge (probably about the size of an RS store, or > > something like that), one could telephone a RS store and ask for a 100 > > farad, 1KV, capacitor and the sales clerk would say "I'll check to see > > if we have any." > > Just a sanity check, here. What would be the _DC_ rating of a > momentary switch rated at 3A, 125VAC? > > > Doc > > Probably something like 3A @ 24VDC (resistive loads only) DC is easy to turn on but harder to turn off (no interrupted current to quench the arc) Peter Wallace From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Jun 11 22:28:38 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <20020612025715.GB1501@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: > Quothe Gene Buckle, from writings of Sat, Jun 08, 2002 at 07:24:38AM -0700: > > he went into RS looking for a GaSFET and was promptly told that he might > > have better luck in an auto parts store. > > Back when I was in high school, when a 1 farad capacitor would have > been, physically, huge (probably about the size of an RS store, or > something like that), one could telephone a RS store and ask for a 100 > farad, 1KV, capacitor and the sales clerk would say "I'll check to see > if we have any." Heheheh. That's just wrong. :) I don't have much room to talk though. Me and a friend had the kid we worked with there was a new element called Confoundium. The odd thing about this element is that instead of decaying and slowing moving down the atomic scale, it actually accumulated atoms and moved UP the atomic scale. We had him nearly convinced after about an hour of working on him. Unfortunately, I started laughing when his eyes bugged out when Rob starting describing how it "accumulated". The jig was pretty much up at that point. :) g. From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jun 11 22:28:37 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <3D06B9E4.F5D92B@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > Just a sanity check, here. What would be the _DC_ rating of a > > momentary switch rated at 3A, 125VAC? > > > > Doc > > About 175 volts. Most 1 farad caps are rated at 5.5 volts. I was in Rat Shack yesterday, buying a momentary pushbutton for my new-old truck. The starter contacts in the ignition switch are fried, and my little bro has just hot-wired it for 3 years. I wanted to hot-wire it _neatly_. The guy there is accustomed to seeing me come in for DE9 connectors, hoods, & computer stuff, and always asks "What are you building this time?" He doesn't know anything, but at least he's curious... I found a push-button rated at 3A, 125VAC, and brought it up. Darrell says "Building one from scratch now, are ya?" I told him no, it's a starter switch for my pickup. He refused to sell it to me, because "Those starters pull 20 or 30 amps, and that's *DC*, too! That switch will only stand 1.5 amps, since it's rated at 3A *AC*!" I did literally have to go to the other Rat Shack to get my switch. Which is grossly overrated for that solenoid circuit. Jeez. Doc From donm at cts.com Tue Jun 11 22:40:14 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: VERY good weekend In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Doc wrote: > On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Geoff Roberts wrote: > > > Been tied up with 'real world' activiites of late, just catching up after > > sifting through the back traffic..... > > > > > A Telex EB6 Dead Reckoning Computer. Telex still sells them, but I'm > > > sure this one's at least 15 years old. > > > > Is this electronic or the circular slide rule type? Pic? > > Circular slide rule. With docs. I've got a few things to scan this > week, so I'll throw that in. You're sure that it is not an E6B? - don > > > Not a computer, but computerized, and the perfect ClassicCmp > > > Collector's accessory -- 1991 Ford F-150 with Straight-6 EFI and > > > overdrive manual transmission. It's on its 4th trip around the > > > odometer. 328,755 true miles. Doc's in love. Free. > > > > Well nobody can say the price wasn't good. > > > > > By the time it's street legal I'll have $75 into it. > > > > That much? Wow. :^) Nice catch..... > > Lotsa history too. My little brother bought it new in '90. And I do > love a big tall ride.... > > BTW, I got Twinax stuff for you. We got horribly busy at my real job, > and the twinax stuff got back-burnered. I do have what I think you > needed. More later, after I sort it. > > Doc > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jun 11 22:40:23 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: Let's Have an Opus Thread! Message-ID: Seriously. Somebody mentioned last week that they had questions about an Opus card, I just saw one, a 300PM, on Dan Veeneman's page, and I have the software (2 DC6150 QIC tapes) for a 400PM. These appear to be for Solaris, or SunOS, and I read that Opus built "mainframe coprocessors" for Suns as well as ATs. I think they also built standalone workstations. Does anybody have a matched set? Software and hardware? Ever seen the mainframe coprocessors in action? These things are really intriguing to me, and really mysterious. If anybody has an SBus 400PM card and needs the software, or wants to donate/trade it, I'm willing either way. If somebody wants to forward this to CCtech, that'd be cool too. Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jun 11 22:42:52 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > > > Just a sanity check, here. What would be the _DC_ rating of a > > momentary switch rated at 3A, 125VAC? > > Probably something like 3A @ 24VDC (resistive loads only) DC is easy to turn > on but harder to turn off (no interrupted current to quench the arc) OK. Same amps, divide voltage by six was what I was taught in the oilfield. And "devide" has 2 "i"s.... Doc From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jun 11 22:58:44 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: Free or Best Offer: VAX and RS/6000 hardware In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Doc wrote: > On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Robert Schaefer wrote: > > > Well, bad karma for replying to my own mail, but I noticed he's got a few > > Q-bus SCSI cards listed. Whoever picks up this lot, please forward one to > > me. Doc, you're around there, aren't you? Postage due is fine. ^_^ > > I think Toth is a lot closer. :) Yup, and I've already emailed him :) > Seriously, that's a 2 1/2 hour drive from here. I might go, if nobody > else is grabbing. I already have one of almost everything on the > list, but hey. I can almost see my garage floor.... The only DEC/VAX hardware that I currently own is a MicroVAX II in a BA123 with 5MB(?) of ram and no networking hardware. I donno if I'll end up with the whole lot that was offered or not, but if so, I'm sure there will be things I'll not have much need for... I'll post more when I hear back from the current owner of that VAX lot. -Toth From univac2 at earthlink.net Tue Jun 11 23:14:52 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: A good day at Goodwill Message-ID: A _very_ good day, actually. For $40 I picked up: Apple IIe in pretty bad shape, but with DuoDisk & interface card, SuperSerial card, and paddles. ROM3 Apple IIgs with SCSI card. TI-99 Expansion interface with 2 drives, RS-232 interface, and third-party 128K memory module, plus TI Extended BASIC, MultiPlan, Editor/Assembler, Disk Manager II, and more. And the TI stuff was in an old Apple box, for either a II+, IIe, or IIc, I think. All it says besides "Apple" is: "The Personal Computer" in an 80s-purple-neon mall-shop-sign style script typeface. Plus an Apple external 800K drive, some software, and a few other assorted goodies. It helped that the extremely nice man at Goodwill let me in the "restricted" area of his new shop in the GW building. Nobody else gets to go back there, so nothing had been picked through. -- Owen Robertson From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Jun 11 23:48:07 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: VERY good weekend References: Message-ID: <3D06D287.99B433E5@ccp.com> Doc Shipley wrote: > > Well. > I've been working on, and cleaning & testing, the weekend's finds. It > was a nice haul. edited > An Atari 1040ST with SC1224 display and mouse - works great, no > burn-in, floppy reads & formats perfectly. $5.98 edited > > Doc I remember that one, an Amiga wannabe. Talk about a rare duck there . . . . . .I think Jack Tramiel pushed that one through Atari just after he bailed ship at Commode Door, to get back at his former company. Nice haul indeed. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Jun 11 23:58:33 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: A good day at Goodwill References: Message-ID: <3D06D4F9.4D233086@ccp.com> Owen Robertson wrote: > > A _very_ good day, actually. For $40 I picked up: snip snip > TI-99 Expansion interface with 2 drives, RS-232 interface, and third-party > 128K memory module, plus TI Extended BASIC, MultiPlan, Editor/Assembler, > Disk Manager II, and more. > snip snip > It helped that the extremely nice man at Goodwill let me in the "restricted" > area of his new shop in the GW building. Nobody else gets to go back there, > so nothing had been picked through. > > -- > Owen Robertson Nice find, as I have nver seen the TI expansion chassis with the floppy drive except in pictures. I have a late TI99/4a in a beige case (no accessories, but has ps/modulator/books) that would like to rejoin some of its brethren. Interested? $5 +s&h and it is yours. I"ve decided that I'll never do anything with it, including building a cassette cable. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jun 12 00:14:45 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: VERY good weekend In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > > On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Doc wrote: > > > > A Telex EB6 Dead Reckoning Computer. Telex still sells them, but I'm > > > > sure this one's at least 15 years old. > > You're sure that it is not an E6B? Isn't that what I said? ;) Thanks for catching the typo. Here are the best pics I've found online. Mine is an FDF-60, and copyrighted 1975, but I think the difference is mostly or all cosmetic. http://chris.gillings.com/collect/slide/telex.html Of course, those E6B's all look alike to me. ;^) So, E6B is a type designation, right? Not a model name? I can't find any info on the FDF-60, so I don't know if the "1975" has anything to do with its age. Very cool little instrument, though. Doc From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Jun 12 00:21:41 2002 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: VERY good weekend References: Message-ID: <0ad901c211d1$09e70f90$de2c67cb@helpdesk> Hi Doc, > BTW, I got Twinax stuff for you. We got horribly busy at my real job, > and the twinax stuff got back-burnered. I do have what I think you > needed. More later, after I sort it. Ok, thanks for that.. Terrific...... Cheers Geoff in Oz From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jun 12 00:25:12 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: VERY good weekend In-Reply-To: <3D06D287.99B433E5@ccp.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > > An Atari 1040ST with SC1224 display and mouse - works great, no > > burn-in, floppy reads & formats perfectly. $5.98 > > edited > > > > Doc > I remember that one, an Amiga wannabe. Talk about a rare duck there . . > . . . .I think Jack Tramiel pushed that one through Atari just after he > bailed ship at Commode Door, to get back at his former company. Sort of "feels" like an Amiga... All I've got at the moment is TOS/GEM, so I don't have much of an opinion. The condition of the monitor was a nice surprise, though. Nice, crisp pic, and I'm not having to max the controls to get it. As soon as I figure out how to generate software disks from Linux it should be fun. First guess is that I'll be setting up a SLIP connection and trying the NFS client.... Are the DMA-SCSI adapters unobtainium? Sounds useful. > > Nice haul indeed. Thanks. More fun than one man should be allowed! Doc From groovelists at yahoo.com Tue Jun 11 23:29:00 2002 From: groovelists at yahoo.com (Andy Berg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] AT&T PC7300 / UnixPC is ill! :( In-Reply-To: <20020607223139.VVXH9770.tomts24-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20020612042900.13425.qmail@web20512.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all! :) Today, I acquired a PC7300. Alas, the poor fellow seems to have a rather large malady of some type. I've never had much experience with these beasts before, so much of what I say goes on the word of the last owner. Evidently, before one of these machines first boots up, it displays a few rectangular characters in the upper left hand corner of the screen. It then proceeds to its boot screen. (And then OS loading and whatnot if all is well.) My machine just sits there and displays rectangle after rectangle after rectangle. No boot screen ever appears. The machine was working when put away for storage when put away a few months ago, but refused to boot when it came out. I guess that leaves it at the point that I got it. :) I managed, with a bit of yanking about, to get it disassembled, down to the motherboard, as per the 3b1 FAQ. I got some of the big dust out and reseated all of the seatable chips. There didn't seem to be any major damage anywhere... one of the fans had a cut line which I repaired, but there was no evidence of any type of overheating. Most socketed chips were reseated, everything was powered on once again, and the same thing seems to happen. :( The rectangles appear, the floppy drive sits and spins, and the hard drive spins up and sits there. There is a loud beep/click type sound, which I'd figured to be the heads unparking themselves. When the hard drive cable is removed, the machine freezes at one rectangle, so was thinking it could be something along those lines. Will see if I can dig up a HH ST-506 drive somewhere soon. The power supply looked OK... one very slightly mad looking / bulging cap, but nothing overtly broken. (My DMM is in the mail at the moment, so I wasn't really able to test much. :() The only other thing I think I can report are that the four indicator LEDs are at a constant on state - could also be normal for this part of the boot cycle for this machine, too. Any suggestions as to what is making this poor machine act as it does would be very, very much appreciated. :) Can't wait to get it running at some point... it looks like such a nifty box. Thanks kindly! :) Andy _____________________ groovelists@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From zaft at azstarnet.com Wed Jun 12 01:12:10 2002 From: zaft at azstarnet.com (Gordon C. Zaft) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] AT&T PC7300 / UnixPC is ill! :( In-Reply-To: <20020612042900.13425.qmail@web20512.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020607223139.VVXH9770.tomts24-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020611231024.02f6afe0@pop.azstarnet.com> At 09:29 PM 6/11/2002 -0700, you wrote: >I managed, with a bit of yanking about, to get it >disassembled, down to the motherboard, as per the 3b1 >FAQ. I got some of the big dust out and reseated all >of the seatable chips. There didn't seem to be any >major damage anywhere... one of the fans had a cut >line which I repaired, but there was no evidence of >any type of overheating. Most socketed chips were >reseated, everything was powered on once again, and >the same thing seems to happen. :( The rectangles >appear, the floppy drive sits and spins, and the hard >drive spins up and sits there. There is a loud >beep/click type sound, which I'd figured to be the >heads unparking themselves. When the hard drive cable >is removed, the machine freezes at one rectangle, so >was thinking it could be something along those lines. >Will see if I can dig up a HH ST-506 drive somewhere >soon. The power supply looked OK... one very slightly >mad looking / bulging cap, but nothing overtly broken. >(My DMM is in the mail at the moment, so I wasn't >really able to test much. :() The only other thing I >think I can report are that the four indicator LEDs >are at a constant on state - could also be normal for >this part of the boot cycle for this machine, too. It sounds offhand like the hard drive has the "stiction" problem referred to in the FAQ. Did you try booting from a floppy? Comp.sys.3b1 used to be where the Unix pc folks hung out. They are cool machines, I have a couple myself. G Gordon Zaft zaft@azstarnet.com http://www.zaft.org/gordon From ghldbrd at ccp.com Wed Jun 12 01:29:55 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: VERY good weekend References: Message-ID: <3D06EA63.621E75AC@ccp.com> Doc wrote: > > On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > > > > An Atari 1040ST with SC1224 display and mouse - works great, no > > > burn-in, floppy reads & formats perfectly. $5.98 > > > > edited > > > > > > Doc > > I remember that one, an Amiga wannabe. Talk about a rare duck there . . > > . . . .I think Jack Tramiel pushed that one through Atari just after he > > bailed ship at Commode Door, to get back at his former company. > > Sort of "feels" like an Amiga... All I've got at the moment is > TOS/GEM, so I don't have much of an opinion. The condition of the > monitor was a nice surprise, though. Nice, crisp pic, and I'm not > having to max the controls to get it. > As soon as I figure out how to generate software disks from Linux it > should be fun. First guess is that I'll be setting up a SLIP connection > and trying the NFS client.... > > Are the DMA-SCSI adapters unobtainium? Sounds useful. I thought they had a native SCSI controller. I do know they have native MIDI interface (opto isolated). ISTR the monitor was like the Amiga, and was RGB @15.75 kHz scan rate. I'll keep my eyes and ears open on that one. My former Amiga dealer in KC was a big Atari 8 bit/16 bit fan. TOS/GEM was impressive, but the Linux seems to be the choice nowdays. I've only seen about three or four of those. Last one I saw was at a hobby shop in Norfolk, Nebraska. They were using it as a business computer. > > > > > Nice haul indeed. > > Thanks. More fun than one man should be allowed! > > Doc Gary Hildebrand From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Jun 12 06:38:00 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:14 2005 Subject: Free or Best Offer: VAX and RS/6000 hardware References: Message-ID: <003d01c21205$9c58d8c0$7c000240@default> I also emailed him yesterday and he has more but I'm not sure what yet. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tothwolf" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 10:58 PM Subject: Re: Free or Best Offer: VAX and RS/6000 hardware > On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Doc wrote: > > On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Robert Schaefer wrote: > > > > > Well, bad karma for replying to my own mail, but I noticed he's got a few > > > Q-bus SCSI cards listed. Whoever picks up this lot, please forward one to > > > me. Doc, you're around there, aren't you? Postage due is fine. ^_^ > > > > I think Toth is a lot closer. :) > > Yup, and I've already emailed him :) > > > Seriously, that's a 2 1/2 hour drive from here. I might go, if nobody > > else is grabbing. I already have one of almost everything on the > > list, but hey. I can almost see my garage floor.... > > The only DEC/VAX hardware that I currently own is a MicroVAX II in a BA123 > with 5MB(?) of ram and no networking hardware. I donno if I'll end up with > the whole lot that was offered or not, but if so, I'm sure there will be > things I'll not have much need for... > > I'll post more when I hear back from the current owner of that VAX lot. > > -Toth > > From stanb at dial.pipex.com Wed Jun 12 03:56:09 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 12 Jun 2002 00:48:59 BST." Message-ID: <200206120856.JAA17818@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) said: > I think the fact that we've been told totally different versions of this > (BTW, at least one book -- 'EMC for Product Designers' -- confirms my > version from what I can see, although it doesn't sepcifically mention > kits) implies that the DTI don't have a clue.. But that's not news. > Yeah...we were talking to 2 different sections of the same Government department, it's not surprising we got 2 different answers ;-) > > > > You can judge that the situation was satisfactorally resolved by looking at > > the large number of kit manufacturers in this country. > > Apart from amateur radio kits (which may well be classed as home-built > amateur radio equipment), there are very few kit suppliers that I can > think of. True most are related to radio (not just amateur stuff) but that's where most home construction has traditionally been. Maplin still sell kits and there are a number of firms making thing like PIC chip kits, and even the Forth Interest Group UK sell a HC11 board kit (to get back to computers) and I wonder if all the Vellemen kits are certified?? What with the data terminal equipment regs and new legislation governing what equipment you can fit in cars, it's enough to make a guy think about emigrating across the pond! -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Wed Jun 12 09:06:14 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: No IMSAI on ebay Message-ID: I run a set of searches on ebay just about daily. One of the searches is for IMSAI. This morning, for the first time in about two years, a search for IMSAI resulted in no hits. I found this interesting. Thought others might as well. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 12 09:31:18 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: Help needed with PSU for DEC "Leprechaun" box In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020612143118.86513.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > Oh, what the heck, I've dug mine out and pulled the PSU. Alas I don't > think it's quite the same unit. The PSU connectors sound similar, but the > mains smoothing caps in mine are 330uF 250V. There are also 2 fuses on > the PSU board itself -- F1 is a 1.25" (3AG?) fuse in series with the > mains input and F2 is a soldered-in fuse... Nope. Not the same at all. I have three identical units, but no fuses. > Anyway, on my PCB there's a 120k resistor (looks to be about 0.5W, > small)running parallel to the long edge of the PCB between the 2 mains > smoothing capacitors. At a quick glance that's the startup resistor. I'll check for something that looks like that. > My PSU is made by 'Joule Power', apparently. Mine, too, but I don't have the model number with me at work. I looked into the third PSU - it has a fried diode near the output connectors - cracked and blackened. There is also a small area of discoloration under some 1/8 and 1/4 W resistors located toward the input side of the board, between the large transformer/inductor and the input taps. The other two are clean. I'll look into that 0.5W resistor. An easy fix if that's what it is. Thanks again, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From mrbill at mrbill.net Wed Jun 12 10:05:16 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: A good day at Goodwill In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020612150516.GH17481@mrbill.net> On Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 11:14:52PM -0500, Owen Robertson wrote: > It helped that the extremely nice man at Goodwill let me in the "restricted" > area of his new shop in the GW building. Nobody else gets to go back there, > so nothing had been picked through. Is this the Goodwill in Austin? Think I saw the TI stuff in the "as-is" rack up front last time I was there. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From msspcva at yahoo.com Wed Jun 12 02:04:21 2002 From: msspcva at yahoo.com (Clayton Frank Helvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Morrow Designs CP/M computer parts to good home Message-ID: <20020612070421.21793.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com> All: I have the remnants of a "Morrow" computer, from what I've seen on the net it was a CP/M machine (Z80A processor). All that's left is a main board and the case. The case has no model number information, just "Morrow Designs" and the serial number, plus a label on the inside with a PCB number and numbers for the now-missing drives and power supply. The main board has 2, possibly 3 Z80A micros, PROMs, etc. A label on one chip which may be a Z80A has "4/5/84" written on it. If you want it, all I ask is shipping (it's light, so probably no more than $5 in the US). If you'd like to throw in $5 more for packing it up and taking it to UPS it would be appreciated. I've kept it around for a long time, and just recently unearthed it to remove some threaded nuts from the serial interfaces for use in another computer. -- Frank ===== = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= Clayton Frank Helvey, President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com ============================================================ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From foo at siconic.com Wed Jun 12 10:52:20 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: A good day at Goodwill In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Owen Robertson wrote: > And the TI stuff was in an old Apple box, for either a II+, IIe, or IIc, I > think. All it says besides "Apple" is: "The Personal Computer" in an > 80s-purple-neon mall-shop-sign style script typeface. It was most likely for either a ][+ or //e. The //c box is glossy and has the colored Apple logo on it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bernd at kopriva.de Wed Jun 12 11:16:51 2002 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: Let's Have an Opus Thread! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <17IAlV-1QUztgC@fmrl06.sul.t-online.com> Hi Doc, that was me, who asked for some software for a NS32032 board ... Till last week, i've learned that Opus Systems is out of business, and that there is no chance to get any documentation and/or software from them for this kind of board :-( They made SPARC based processor boards as well, but unfortunately, i've never seen such a board ... ... but if there is a chance to grab such a beast, i would take it :-) Bernd On Tue, 11 Jun 2002 22:40:23 -0500 (CDT), Doc Shipley wrote: > Seriously. > Somebody mentioned last week that they had questions about an Opus >card, I just saw one, a 300PM, on Dan Veeneman's page, and I have the >software (2 DC6150 QIC tapes) for a 400PM. These appear to be for >Solaris, or SunOS, and I read that Opus built "mainframe coprocessors" >for Suns as well as ATs. I think they also built standalone >workstations. > Does anybody have a matched set? Software and hardware? Ever seen >the mainframe coprocessors in action? > These things are really intriguing to me, and really mysterious. > If anybody has an SBus 400PM card and needs the software, or wants to >donate/trade it, I'm willing either way. > If somebody wants to forward this to CCtech, that'd be cool too. > > Doc > Bernd Kopriva Tel: 07195 / 179452 Weilerstr. 24 E-Mail : bernd@kopriva.de 71397 Leutenbach From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Jun 12 11:13:10 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] AT&T PC7300 / UnixPC is ill! :( Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E04139E37@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Andy Berg [mailto:groovelists@yahoo.com] > Today, I acquired a PC7300. Alas, the poor fellow > seems to have a rather large malady of some type. I've It will make you feel better to know that they're very sturdy. > Evidently, before one of these machines first boots > up, it displays a few rectangular characters in the > upper left hand corner of the screen. It then proceeds > to its boot screen. (And then OS loading and whatnot Yes. The rectangles come from ROM, the boot screen comes from the on-disk loader. (I think) It's really trying to boot, from the sound of it. Put a diagnostic disk in the floppy drive and see what happens. If you've got not diagnostic disk, that's your first problem ;) > if all is well.) My machine just sits there and > displays rectangle after rectangle after rectangle. No > boot screen ever appears. The machine was working when > put away for storage when put away a few months ago, > but refused to boot when it came out. I guess that > leaves it at the point that I got it. :) Chances are that it's the disk. You'll find that it's a normal ST-506 (Is it 506? -- "MFM") disk. If you find that the disk really is toasted, you can get pretty much any half-height drive and replace it. They came with Miniscribe lots of the time. I've replaced them with Seagate and Rodime drives without trouble. Anything else is also likely to work. > I managed, with a bit of yanking about, to get it > disassembled, down to the motherboard, as per the 3b1 > FAQ. I got some of the big dust out and reseated all > of the seatable chips. There didn't seem to be any > major damage anywhere... one of the fans had a cut > line which I repaired, but there was no evidence of > any type of overheating. Most socketed chips were Careful there. There was a procedure somewhere describing how to disconnect the thermister from the fans, in order to _keep_ the system from overheating ;) Make sure that line was one of the lines that powers the fan. Of course, my system, and my fiancee's system, are both fine without having had that done. > reseated, everything was powered on once again, and > the same thing seems to happen. :( The rectangles > appear, the floppy drive sits and spins, and the hard > drive spins up and sits there. There is a loud > beep/click type sound, which I'd figured to be the > heads unparking themselves. When the hard drive cable > is removed, the machine freezes at one rectangle, so > was thinking it could be something along those lines. As I was saying, it could just be a bad disk. > think I can report are that the four indicator LEDs > are at a constant on state - could also be normal for > this part of the boot cycle for this machine, too. I think so, but my memory is fuzzy. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL "Confutatis maledictus, flammis acribus addictus, voca me cum benedictis. Oro supplex et acclinis, cor contritunt quasi cinis, gere curarn mei finis." -Requiem -------------- next part -------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this message is proprietary of Amdocs, protected from disclosure, and may be privileged. The information is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s) of the message. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, use, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Jun 12 11:55:18 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: A good day at Goodwill Message-ID: Dunno if its still there, but there at least used to be one with floppy included at the scrapyard... also an osborne 1 with the screen busted.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Jun 12 11:57:15 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: Let's Have an Opus Thread! Message-ID: The surplus place I go to at least used to have an ISA opus sparc thingy.. I hope its still there... Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From bernd at kopriva.de Wed Jun 12 12:24:31 2002 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: Let's Have an Opus Thread! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <17IBp0-0sbrCCC@fmrl06.sul.t-online.com> Hi Will, can you get that one for me ????? Thanks Bernd On Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:57:15 -0600, Will Jennings wrote: >The surplus place I go to at least used to have an ISA opus sparc thingy.. I >hope its still there... > >Will J > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: >http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > Bernd Kopriva Phone: ++49-7195-179452 Weilerstr. 24 E-Mail: bernd@kopriva.de D-71397 Leutenbach Germany From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Wed Jun 12 12:26:18 2002 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: Let's Have an Opus Thread! References: <17IAlV-1QUztgC@fmrl06.sul.t-online.com> Message-ID: <003301c21236$46b27670$ab1ea8ce@NEWHARE> They also produced MC88000-based co-processors. We used Opus boards to create 88/Open compatible software many years ago when some of the 88/Open sponsors [i.e. Data General] could not create compatible binaries! Bruce Ray Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc. bkr@WildHareComputers.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bernd Kopriva" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 10:16 AM Subject: Re: Let's Have an Opus Thread! > Hi Doc, > > that was me, who asked for some software for a NS32032 board ... > > Till last week, i've learned that Opus Systems is out of business, and that there is > no chance to get any documentation and/or software from them for this kind of board :-( > They made SPARC based processor boards as well, but unfortunately, i've never seen > such a board ... > ... but if there is a chance to grab such a beast, i would take it :-) > > Bernd > > On Tue, 11 Jun 2002 22:40:23 -0500 (CDT), Doc Shipley wrote: > > > Seriously. > > Somebody mentioned last week that they had questions about an Opus > >card, I just saw one, a 300PM, on Dan Veeneman's page, and I have the > >software (2 DC6150 QIC tapes) for a 400PM. These appear to be for > >Solaris, or SunOS, and I read that Opus built "mainframe coprocessors" > >for Suns as well as ATs. I think they also built standalone > >workstations. > > Does anybody have a matched set? Software and hardware? Ever seen > >the mainframe coprocessors in action? > > These things are really intriguing to me, and really mysterious. > > If anybody has an SBus 400PM card and needs the software, or wants to > >donate/trade it, I'm willing either way. > > If somebody wants to forward this to CCtech, that'd be cool too. > > > > Doc > > > > > Bernd Kopriva Tel: 07195 / 179452 > Weilerstr. 24 E-Mail : bernd@kopriva.de > 71397 Leutenbach > From m_thompson at ids.net Wed Jun 12 10:33:17 2002 From: m_thompson at ids.net (Michael Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: RA82 belt tension adjustment, how? Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020612113317.0080aec0@155.212.1.107> I was told that this error might be a problem with the starting capacitor. RCS/RI has two RA81s with the same behavior. I bought replacement capacitors and will try them Saturday. Michael Thompson E-Mail: M_Thompson@IDS.net From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jun 12 13:18:35 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: VCF Gazette Volume 1 Issue 2 Message-ID: VCF Gazette Volume 1, Issue 2 A Newsletter for the Vintage Computer Festival June 12, 2002 Hello Vintage Computer Fans! We've got a lot of exciting news for you in this issue of the VCF Gazette, including: VCF Europa 3.0 Retrospective VCF 5.0 Update VCF Open House Update Latest Additions to the VCF Archives VCF Archives Now Searchable Online Upcoming Features VCF Europa 3.0 Restrospective ----------------------------- VCF Europa 3.0 was a smashing success. With about 300 attendees and 30 exhibits, the air was rife with vintage computing nostalgia. The Best of Show grand prize went to Thomas and Hendrik Falk for their exhibit of amazing analog computers. See photos from VCF Europa 3.0 here: http://www.vintage.org/gallery.php?title=VCF%20Europa%203.0&grouptag=VCFEUR30 Gaby Chaudry, VCF Europa 3.0 Exhibitor and CP/M Archive maintainer, has more pictures of VCF Europa 3.0 exhibits here: http://www.gaby.de/vcfpics/vcf3gaby/index.htm VCF 5.0 Update -------------- The dates for VCF 5.0 have been finalized! Mark your calendar for September 21st and 22nd when the fifth Vintage Computer Festival will be held at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, California. We are very happy to be moving the event back to the Santa Clara Convention Center which has a nice facility, a convenient location, and ample (free!) parking. As you may recall from the last VCF Gazette, we were planning to hold the VCF in conjunction with a handful of other events, tentatively calling it GeekWeek. Unfortunately, we were unable to secure a common venue for all the events to run together on the same date. However, we plan to regroup for next year and try again. But for this year, we are still running side by side with the Xtreme Games Developers Conference and possibly the tentatively named San Francisco International Conference of Hackers. California Extreme and Superauctions will be held September 7-8 at the Parkside Hall complex of the San Jose Convention Center in San Jose, California. We have created a webpage to provide information on affiliated events here: http://www.vintage.org/2002/main/co-events.php We are currently in the process of putting together another top notch speaker program. As in past years, we will have two tracks running concurrently with 8-10 talks total across both days of the event. Stay tuned for future VCF updates which will inform you of added speakers. This year being the 30th anniversary of the founding of Atari, we plan to celebrate this event by featuring talks on Atari's history, and we will be giving away vintage Atari computers for door prizes. More details to come. Of course, all the usual attractions that you've come to expect from the Vintage Computer Festival will be featured, including the Vintage Computer Exhibition, the VCF Marketplace, and the Nerd Trivia Challenge. We also plan to host vintage computer programming contests in conjunction with the Xtreme Games Developers Conference, with the goal being to create, from scratch, a video game on one of several different vintage computer platforms including, but not limited to, the Apple ][, Commodore 64 and PET, Atari 800, TRS-80, and IBM PC. Rules and procedures are still being formulated so stay tuned for further VCF 5.0 updates. The VCF always features some of the most amazing computer exhibits as individual collectors bring out the pride and joy of their collection to show off. If you are interested in exhibiting your computer at the VCF this year, now is the time to register. We have some great prizes to give away to our top winners, including a new, in-the-box, Sharp PC-5000. The PC-5000 is one of the first clam-shell type portables which was first sold in 1983. It is a truly historic computer, one of the first that was small enough to comfortably carry around yet still functional enough to be useful (unlike other portables of the day). To register your exhibit, please visit: http://www.vintage.org/2002/main/exhibit.php If you have a load of vintage computing items that you'd like to unload, be a vendor at the VCF Marketplace. The VCF Marketplace is the best venue to sell your vintage computer items to a targeted audience. We also have consignment sales for people who have a small number of items to sell. For complete vendor information, visit: http://www.vintage.org/2002/main/vendor.php General information on VCF 5.0 including date, time, location, directions, and lodging information, visit the VCF 5.0 web site: http://www.vintage.org/2002/main/ VCF Open House Update --------------------- You may recall from our last issue that we planned to announce a VCF Open House when we were done with organizing the VCF Archives and setting up a computer museum at the Alameda County Computer Resource Center. We are not there yet, but we are getting closer. We have secured enough computer floor tile to cover the area where we will be setting up the museum, but we lack the support members for the tiles. We are hoping to find what we need soon, or else come up with an alternative from our local hardware store. Either way, we are still working hard towards getting the VCF Archives ready for our Open House. We hope to have the Open House by late summer, before VCF 5.0. Stay tuned. In the meantime, please visit the Alameda County Computer Resource Center, the largest non-profit computer recycling operation on the west coast of the United States, who have been incredibly generous in lending space to the VCF to store its archives: http://www.accrc.org/ If you have computer flooring to donate, or know of someone who does, please contact us at . Latest Additions to the VCF Archives ------------------------------------ While we at the VCF have been focusing most of our recent attention on sorting and cataloguing the existing artifacts in the VCF Archives, we still occasionally go out to scrounge up new items and we receive somei items from helpful donors as well. The latest donation is an IBM 026 Printing Card Punch. The 026 was introduced in 1949 and served many computer installations dependably for decades. Some of these punches were still in use in some organizations as late as the 1980s, and there may still be some in operation in different parts of the world, a testament to the fine engineering of IBM. The 026 card punch was donated to the Vintage Computer Festival by Karl Bender of Bakersfield, California. We've created a small picture gallery of the 026 here: http://www.vintage.org/gallery.php?title=IBM%20026%20Printing%20Card%20Punch&grouptag=IBM026 Other recent significant additions to the VCF Archives include: o Teletype Corporation ASR-33 o IBM 3420 reel-to-reel tape drive o Apple //e with SwyftCard (converts Apple //e into a Canon Cat) VCF Archives Now Searchable Online ---------------------------------- Recently the VCF began cataloguing its archive. This will be a long and arduous process, as there are several thousand items to sort through and catalog. The VCF has made it's existing artifact database searchable on the web through its VintageTech affiliate business. To search the VCF Archives, visit the VintageTech website and click on the "Search the VintageTech Archives" icon. http://www.vintagetech.com/ The Vintage Computer Festival makes its archives available for use commercially through VintageTech, providing services such as patent litigation support and prior art searches, consulting and props for the film and photography industry, data and media conversion, vintage computer appraisals and sales brokering, and general computer history consulting. Upcoming Features ----------------- The VCF is always working on new features to keep the vintage computer enthusiast coming back to the VCF website. Upcoming additions include an online Nerd Trivia Challenge and the VCF Marketplace. The Nerd Trivia Challenge is a contest held at each Vintage Computer Festival to test the computer history knowledge of qualifying contestants. Now anyone will be able to experience this same challenge online. The online version of the Nerd Trivia Challenge should be available sometime this summer and will feature questions from past Nerd Trivia Challenge competitions. The VCF is also rolling out a new vintage computer marketplace. The VCF Marketplace will allow buyers and sellers to come together to trade old computers and related items in an open and fair market. Sellers will be able to choose from several different sale and auction mechanisms to vend their wares. Buyers will be able to quickly and easily locate specific items they are seeking. There will also be message boards and, eventually, personal inventory tools for collectors and store fronts for regular vintage computer sellers. The VCF Marketplace will initially be free to use. Look for it by mid Summer. Classic Tech Eletter -------------------- The Classic Tech Eletter, an e-mail newsletter that covers news, stories and events in the world of computer collecting, is now on its eighth issue. I love the Classic Tech Eletter and look forward to each new issue. Check it out! Subscribe to the Classic Tech Eletter and see back issues at: http://www.classictechpub.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- That wraps it up for this issue of the VCF Gazette! Until next time... Best regards, Sellam Ismail Producer Vintage Computer Festival http://www.vintage.org/ The Vintage Computer Festival is a celebration of computers and their history. The VCF Gazette goes out to anyone who subscribed to the VCF mailing list, and is intended to keep those interested in the VCF informed of the latest VCF events and happenings. The VCF Gazette is guaranteed to be published in a somewhat irregular manner, though we will try to maintain a quarterly schedule. If you would like to be removed from the VCF mailing list, and therefore not receive any more issues of the VCF Gazette, visit the following web page: http://www.vintage.org/remove.php ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From ken at seefried.com Wed Jun 12 13:52:36 2002 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: Let's Have an Opus Thread! In-Reply-To: <20020612170001.27396.91476.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <20020612170001.27396.91476.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20020612185236.20976.qmail@mail.seefried.com> AFAIK...Opus had, at least, 32032, SPARC32, Clipper & 88000. They ran GNX, SunOS & CLIX, respectively, on the first 3; dunno what Unix ran on 88k. I *think* they also had 32016, 68020 & 32332. I've got an 88k-based card, sans software. Ken From ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 12 15:06:29 2002 From: ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk (Greg Elkin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: Viking QTO WBUS board In-Reply-To: <20020612150516.GH17481@mrbill.net> References: Message-ID: <3D07B7D5.18700.1365E24D@localhost> In a recent haul of a pair of QBUS 11/23 systems (thanks to Peter Joules :) is a Viking QTO card (QBUS Tape Only SCSI controller) In An Idea World, there is no hardware difference between this board & the Viking QDO (or QDT/QTD) board and a simple EPROM change would give me a SCSI MSCP board for my PDP 11/83... It's not going to happen is it? Anyone got pointers to manuals, config etc for this VIK/QTO? ps anyone with a Viking QTO (QDO/QTD?) know what the two big 48pin DIL chips are? thanks, greg From donm at cts.com Wed Jun 12 16:02:59 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: VERY good weekend In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Doc wrote: > On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > > > > On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Doc wrote: > > > > > > A Telex EB6 Dead Reckoning Computer. Telex still sells them, but I'm > > > > > sure this one's at least 15 years old. > > > > > You're sure that it is not an E6B? > > Isn't that what I said? ;) > Thanks for catching the typo. > Here are the best pics I've found online. Mine is an FDF-60, and > copyrighted 1975, but I think the difference is mostly or all cosmetic. > > http://chris.gillings.com/collect/slide/telex.html > > Of course, those E6B's all look alike to me. ;^) > So, E6B is a type designation, right? Not a model name? I can't find > any info on the FDF-60, so I don't know if the "1975" has anything to do > with its age. Very cool little instrument, though. Well, 1975 would make it a fairly late model since they were commonly used during - and probably before - WWII. - don > Doc > > From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Jun 12 16:04:25 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: Omnidata HHC Message-ID: I got an Omnidata Polycorder PC-602 'handheld computer' today. Does anyone know anything about these things? Mine still seems to function, and the recharable batteries even hold a charge. It's from about 1985, and is programmable, and even includes some sort of terminal software (although I don't want to rely on a 4x16 char screen for my day-to-day things). Thanks. -- Pat From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jun 12 16:20:49 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: Viking QTO WBUS board In-Reply-To: <3D07B7D5.18700.1365E24D@localhost> from "Greg Elkin" at Jun 12, 2002 09:06:29 PM Message-ID: <200206122120.g5CLKoa12477@shell1.aracnet.com> > In An Idea World, there is no hardware difference between this board & the > Viking QDO (or QDT/QTD) board and a simple EPROM change would give me a SCSI > MSCP board for my PDP 11/83... > > It's not going to happen is it? No, it's not. > Anyone got pointers to manuals, config etc for this VIK/QTO? There in here somewhere: ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/dan Zane From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jun 12 16:42:43 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: No IMSAI on ebay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I run a set of searches on ebay just about daily. >One of the searches is for IMSAI. This morning, >for the first time in about two years, a search >for IMSAI resulted in no hits. I found this interesting. >Thought others might as well. Not anymore...as of about noon PST some guy has a dutch auction for 'genuine' ISMAI switch handles! Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From dpeschel at eskimo.com Wed Jun 12 16:57:16 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: any advice on IMSAI testing/repair? Message-ID: <20020612145716.B721@eskimo.eskimo.com> Sorry, I don't know the exact model number (it belongs to a friend who got it from his dad). It hasn't been turned on in a long time -- what is the procedure for slowly bringing it up to make sure nothing gets fried? I imagine it would be to check the power supply and backplane wiring, then the CPU card (including the voltage regulator), then memory (including the voltage regulators), then other cards -- and the front panel has to be checked at some point too. I could use more specifc directions, a list of potential problems particular to the IMSAI, etc. Thanks, -- Derek From coredump at gifford.co.uk Wed Jun 12 17:06:43 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: VERY good weekend References: Message-ID: <3D07C5F3.B0DAD1BD@gifford.co.uk> Doc wrote: > Are the DMA-SCSI adapters unobtainium? Sounds useful. I have an Atari DMA-SCSI adaptor, made by a company called Berkley Microsystems. They did the BMS-100, which is the one I have, and a BMS-200 that's smaller, to suit 3.5" hard disks. I bought the BMS-100 from them in 1987, along with a SCSI-ST506 convertor. I then ran two ST225 disks off the system. They were hard to find in 1987, so finding 'em now would be tricky! The Atari requires all sorts of software patches to run well with a hard disk. There's a bug in the OS that limits partition size to 16Mb, and another that makes file creation (opening for write) take about a 5 second delay. TOS version 1.4 fixed some of the problems, though. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From coredump at gifford.co.uk Wed Jun 12 16:53:18 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: 88000 machines Message-ID: <3D07C2CE.E0E11E3@gifford.co.uk> All this mention of Motorola's 88000 RISC chip has made me wonder what machines were built around it. Did Data General make anything with it? Was there a Motorola development system? One of my collecting goals is to acquire an example of each of the microprocessor acrhitectures. Now 6502, 8080, 6809, 68000, and so on are easy. What about the Z8000? The 32032 (I do have a Whitechapel)? The 88000? The iAPX432? -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Jun 12 17:20:05 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: 88000 machines In-Reply-To: <3D07C2CE.E0E11E3@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: The 88000 I have is in a NCD 88k X-Windows Terminal. The MIPS and i960s I have also belong to x-windows terminals.... semi interesting that they were all made using RISC architecure processors IMHO. Of course, they're not 'great' examples, but they do have a real cut-down UNIX type OS running on them that can usually be accessed. In fact, there's a Linux version (uClinux) that will run on the i960.. I've just never got the time to fool around with making the system image and stuff. -- Pat On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, John Honniball wrote: > > All this mention of Motorola's 88000 RISC chip has made me wonder > what machines were built around it. Did Data General make anything > with it? Was there a Motorola development system? > > One of my collecting goals is to acquire an example of each of > the microprocessor acrhitectures. Now 6502, 8080, 6809, 68000, > and so on are easy. What about the Z8000? The 32032 (I do have > a Whitechapel)? The 88000? The iAPX432? > > -- > John Honniball > coredump@gifford.co.uk > > From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Jun 12 17:32:49 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: No IMSAI on ebay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I dunno if that counts. imsai.net has been around for a while. They bought all the surplus inventory or somesuch. I bought some handles from him, and the prices are quite reasonable, and the service excellent. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jeff Hellige Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 17:43 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: No IMSAI on ebay >I run a set of searches on ebay just about daily. >One of the searches is for IMSAI. This morning, >for the first time in about two years, a search >for IMSAI resulted in no hits. I found this interesting. >Thought others might as well. Not anymore...as of about noon PST some guy has a dutch auction for 'genuine' ISMAI switch handles! Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 12 17:30:32 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <3D06B9E4.F5D92B@jetnet.ab.ca> from "Ben Franchuk" at Jun 11, 2 09:03:00 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1188 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020612/cf951ae3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 12 17:38:35 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: from "Doc" at Jun 11, 2 10:28:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1457 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020612/7e94e2cb/attachment.ksh From davebarnes at adelphia.net Wed Jun 12 18:55:15 2002 From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: Viking QTO WBUS board References: <3D07B7D5.18700.1365E24D@localhost> Message-ID: <3D07DF63.E66318D9@adelphia.net> yupper.. all it is is an Eprom swap... used to have the manuals... dunno if I still do... Always preferred the CMD SCSI qbus cards myself... Greg Elkin wrote: > In a recent haul of a pair of QBUS 11/23 systems (thanks to Peter Joules :) > is a Viking QTO card (QBUS Tape Only SCSI controller) > > In An Idea World, there is no hardware difference between this board & the > Viking QDO (or QDT/QTD) board and a simple EPROM change would give me a SCSI > MSCP board for my PDP 11/83... > > It's not going to happen is it? > > Anyone got pointers to manuals, config etc for this VIK/QTO? > > ps anyone with a Viking QTO (QDO/QTD?) know what the two big 48pin DIL chips > are? > > thanks, > greg From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Jun 12 17:52:53 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: 88000 machines Message-ID: <200206122252.PAA12944@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I have a machine with a Z8000 that is working. It is the Olivetti M20. You should be able to find these in Europe. They were many sold in Italy and Germany. It uses a OS made by Olivetti called PCOS. There are a few 32032's around. I also have a couple of the National modules ( I think they were called RA2000 ) that have the NSC800 processor in them ( similar to the Z80 ). These were designed to stack and have a Forth built in. There was a module made by Fairchild that has a RISC processor on it that I have someplace as well. I'm not sure if this one ever made it to production. I think I even have some manuals for it as well. Not many of the 432's made it out of Intel. I'm not surprised that these are rare. There was also a Z80000 someplace as I recall. I guess there are a lot of holes in your collection :-( Dwight On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, John Honniball wrote: > > All this mention of Motorola's 88000 RISC chip has made me wonder > what machines were built around it. Did Data General make anything > with it? Was there a Motorola development system? > > One of my collecting goals is to acquire an example of each of > the microprocessor acrhitectures. Now 6502, 8080, 6809, 68000, > and so on are easy. What about the Z8000? The 32032 (I do have > a Whitechapel)? The 88000? The iAPX432? > > -- > John Honniball > coredump@gifford.co.uk > From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Jun 12 18:02:39 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack Message-ID: <200206122302.QAA12954@clulw009.amd.com> >From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk >> > >> > Just a sanity check, here. What would be the _DC_ rating of a >> > momentary switch rated at 3A, 125VAC? >> > >> > Doc >> >> About 175 volts. Most 1 farad caps are rated at 5.5 volts. > >Never!. A DC arc is much harder to extinguish than an AC arc (the >simplistic explanation is that the AC voltage drops to 0 twice per cycle, >thus helping to extinguish the arc). The DC rating of a mechanical switch >is not sqrt(2) times the AC rating. > >It's a lot less. I would not want to use that swtich _for resistive >loads_ at more than about 24 volts. For significantly inductive loads it >would be even less than that. > >When I was at university there was a physics experiment involving a large >solenoid coil powered from a 24V 10A (or so) bench PSU. The switch was >one of those old knife swtiches, which could therefor be operated slowly >(no spring mechanism). I found I could easily generate and maintain >copper arcs of about 3/4" between the switch contacts (No, that wasn't >the point of the experiment, but it was fun...). Admittedly a quick >break switch would make it harder, but then again the average small >switch has pretty small contact gaps when open. > >-tony > > Hi This is why there is a condenser on the points of a car. This allows the points to open before the coil has a chance to build up too much voltage on the primary. The size of the capacitor is a compromise between getting the points open and too much current when the points close. Many older car manuals would tell you to look at the points to determine when the capacitor was too large or too small by the amount of material transfered from contact to contact by the arcing. For those that haven't tested this by hand, the primary will kick up to about 400-600 volts because of flyback. It will make you jump a little. Dwight From ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 12 18:05:24 2002 From: ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk (Greg Elkin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: Viking QTO QBUS board (was Re: Viking QTO WBUS board) In-Reply-To: <3D07DF63.E66318D9@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <3D07E1C4.12321.1409AE51@localhost> David Barnes wrote > yupper.. all it is is an Eprom swap... > Excellent! I saw an archive post at http://www.classiccmp.org/mail- archive/classiccmp/1999-11/1530.html re the Viking QDT / QDO board & it mentioned the same PCB model/revision as this QTO one which made me hopefull. Next, I just need to get some kind soul with a QDT/QDO to send me an EPROM image... I tried to get the manuals Zane mentioned at ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/dan but that fails for me when the FTP does PASV to 216.99.199.38. Is it just me? > Always preferred the CMD SCSI qbus cards myself... > If one ever falls my way, I'll be happy too :) thanks, greg From ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 12 18:08:00 2002 From: ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk (Greg Elkin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: Viking QTO QBUS board (was Re: Viking QTO WBUS board) In-Reply-To: <3D07E1C4.12321.1409AE51@localhost> References: <3D07DF63.E66318D9@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <3D07E260.32580.140C125E@localhost> I wrote > that fails for me when the FTP does PASV to 216.99.199.38. Is it just me? > Yes Greg, it is just you. Turn Passive off & it connects just fine. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Jun 12 18:14:54 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack Message-ID: <200206122314.QAA12959@clulw009.amd.com> >From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk > >> The guy there is accustomed to seeing me come in for DE9 connectors, >> hoods, & computer stuff, and always asks "What are you building this >> time?" He doesn't know anything, but at least he's curious... I found >> a push-button rated at 3A, 125VAC, and brought it up. Darrell says >> "Building one from scratch now, are ya?" I told him no, it's a starter >> switch for my pickup. He refused to sell it to me, because "Those >> starters pull 20 or 30 amps, and that's *DC*, too! That switch will > >Hmm... In every UK car I have worked on, the starter motor itself draws >about 600A on-load from the battery. This current is switched by the >starter solenoid contacts which acts (in part -- it also moves the >pinion into mesh with the flywheel) as a large relay. > >But the solenoid coil draws significant current as well. There are >typically 2 windings, one to pull the core in, one to hold it. The >former typically draws about 17A, the latter about 4A. > >Now, admittedly the former should only operate until the solenoid has >pulled in, But if there are problems (a typical one is a relatively high >high resistance connection in the circuit which limits the current to >(say) 10A -- the solenoid will then not pull in and disconnect the first >winding), then the current through the switch will be a lot higher than >you might expect. > >I certainly wouldn't use a 3A AC swtich for a starter solenoid operating >button. It's way underrated. > >-tony > > Hi I have never seen this on a solenoid type of starter relay. The switches on the solenoid were always for the ignition resistor bypass and the main switch for the starter motor. The only time I've seen this is on the Ford type starter where the pull in for the gear comes from a pole piece in the started motor. The pole piece would pull in and change the field to be series with the motor armature. There was a separate solenoid that powered this and it always had the full coil current and only switched the current to the starter and the ignition resistor bypass. Pinball machines do have what is called a EOS ( end of stroke ) switch that is used on flippers to reduce the current for holding. Dwight From meltie at myrealbox.com Wed Jun 12 18:17:29 2002 From: meltie at myrealbox.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: Viking QTO QBUS board (was Re: Viking QTO WBUS board) In-Reply-To: <3D07E1C4.12321.1409AE51@localhost> References: <3D07E1C4.12321.1409AE51@localhost> Message-ID: <1023923851.6097.1.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> On Thu, 2002-06-13 at 00:05, Greg Elkin wrote: > I tried to get the manuals Zane mentioned at ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/dan > but that fails for me when the FTP does PASV to 216.99.199.38. Is it just me? It fails from two physically seperate boxes, when entering pasive mode. > > > Always preferred the CMD SCSI qbus cards myself... > > > If one ever falls my way, I'll be happy too :) What IS it with you and SCSI? -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. From meltie at myrealbox.com Wed Jun 12 18:19:24 2002 From: meltie at myrealbox.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: Viking QTO QBUS board (was Re: Viking QTO WBUS board) In-Reply-To: <3D07E260.32580.140C125E@localhost> References: <3D07DF63.E66318D9@adelphia.net> <3D07E260.32580.140C125E@localhost> Message-ID: <1023923967.6226.0.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> On Thu, 2002-06-13 at 00:08, Greg Elkin wrote: > I wrote > > that fails for me when the FTP does PASV to 216.99.199.38. Is it just me? > > > Yes Greg, it is just you. Turn Passive off & it connects just fine. You asked if passive failed. I told you - you never asked if it worked any other way... -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. From pcw at mesanet.com Wed Jun 12 18:59:15 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: 88000 machines In-Reply-To: <3D07C2CE.E0E11E3@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, John Honniball wrote: > > All this mention of Motorola's 88000 RISC chip has made me wonder > what machines were built around it. Did Data General make anything > with it? Was there a Motorola development system? > > One of my collecting goals is to acquire an example of each of > the microprocessor acrhitectures. Now 6502, 8080, 6809, 68000, > and so on are easy. What about the Z8000? The 32032 (I do have > a Whitechapel)? The 88000? The iAPX432? What about the Rockwell PPS-8, RCA 1802, GI CP1600, NAT SEMI IMP-16, PACE, SCAMP, TI TMS9900, Signetics 2650, Electronics Arrays EA9002, Intersil IM6100? etc etc etc... > > -- > John Honniball > coredump@gifford.co.uk > > > Peter Wallace From jrasite at eoni.com Wed Jun 12 19:11:01 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack References: <200206122314.QAA12959@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3D07E2D9.4EE83495@eoni.com> You need to take one apart. Electronics I'm no guru. Automotive electrical systems from 1940-1980 I've got down. The standard starter solenoid used in a majority of automobiles is similar to the one produced by AC-Delco. The basic terminal connections are: 12v high amperage in, 12v high amperage out, 12v switch current in. When the power is applied to the 12v switch current in terminal, it energizes the coil, pulling a cylinder into the coil against spring pressure. As the cylinder reaches the end of its travel it depresses a 'button' which moves a copper disk, against spring pressure again, to connect the 12v high amperage terminals together. This applies voltage to the starter motor windings. Additionally, the cylinder is connected mechanically to a fork that moves the starter drive into engagement with the flywheel. AFAIK, the typical Delco solenoid is only one winding. How do I know all this? When you're broke, you can open up the solenoid, rotate the big copper disk 90 deg., put it back together and not have to spend the $12 for a new one... Jim "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: > > Hi > I have never seen this on a solenoid type of starter relay. > The switches on the solenoid were always for the ignition > resistor bypass and the main switch for the starter motor. > The only time I've seen this is on the Ford type starter where > the pull in for the gear comes from a pole piece in the started > motor. The pole piece would pull in and change the field to be > series with the motor armature. There was a separate solenoid > that powered this and it always had the full coil current and > only switched the current to the starter and the ignition > resistor bypass. > Pinball machines do have what is called a EOS ( end of stroke ) > switch that is used on flippers to reduce the current for holding. > Dwight From davebarnes at adelphia.net Wed Jun 12 20:26:34 2002 From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: Viking QTO QBUS board (was Re: Viking QTO WBUS board) References: <3D07E1C4.12321.1409AE51@localhost> Message-ID: <3D07F4CA.8A39AF25@adelphia.net> I will take a look around... I MAY have an eprom... (for that matter an entire card) no promises though.. as some memory in my head says I got rid of it long ago... Greg Elkin wrote: > David Barnes wrote > > yupper.. all it is is an Eprom swap... > > > > Excellent! I saw an archive post at http://www.classiccmp.org/mail- > archive/classiccmp/1999-11/1530.html re the Viking QDT / QDO board & it > mentioned the same PCB model/revision as this QTO one which made me hopefull. > > Next, I just need to get some kind soul with a QDT/QDO to send me an EPROM > image... > > I tried to get the manuals Zane mentioned at ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/dan > but that fails for me when the FTP does PASV to 216.99.199.38. Is it just me? > > > Always preferred the CMD SCSI qbus cards myself... > > > If one ever falls my way, I'll be happy too :) > > thanks, > greg From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jun 12 19:36:23 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: Viking QTO QBUS board (was Re: Viking QTO WBUS board) In-Reply-To: <3D07E1C4.12321.1409AE51@localhost> from "Greg Elkin" at Jun 13, 2002 12:05:24 AM Message-ID: <200206130036.g5D0aNX21700@shell1.aracnet.com> > I tried to get the manuals Zane mentioned at ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/dan > but that fails for me when the FTP does PASV to 216.99.199.38. Is it just me? BLEEP!!! I've got to figure out what's wrong there. I upgraded to the latest version of OpenBSD, and for some reason, FTP isn't working quite right. Some systems can get to it, others can't. Zane From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 12 17:56:02 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: Help needed with PSU for DEC "Leprechaun" box In-Reply-To: <20020612143118.86513.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jun 12, 2 07:31:18 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1667 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020612/8e7f94f7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 12 18:22:25 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: 88000 machines In-Reply-To: <3D07C2CE.E0E11E3@gifford.co.uk> from "John Honniball" at Jun 12, 2 10:53:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1121 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020613/8a3594f2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 12 19:55:45 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <200206122314.QAA12959@clulw009.amd.com> from "Dwight K. Elvey" at Jun 12, 2 04:14:54 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2818 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020613/1551a87d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 12 20:12:07 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <3D07E2D9.4EE83495@eoni.com> from "Jim Arnott" at Jun 12, 2 05:11:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2644 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020613/90c813a9/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Wed Jun 12 20:45:19 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: Need manuals (bounty request $$$) Message-ID: I am searching for the following manuals: PCP-88, K. Stapleford (Foxboro publication) A Summary Description of the Standard DDC Functions, R. Rankin (Foxboro publication) GE/PAC 4000 Free-Time System User's manual GE/PAC 4000 Monitor User's manual If you've got any of these, please contact me at . Thanks! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From martinm at allwest.net Wed Jun 12 20:52:29 2002 From: martinm at allwest.net (Martin Marshall) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: Let's Have an Opus Thread! References: Message-ID: <3D07FADD.3715625E@allwest.net> Doc: I have an Opus SPARCard system that includes the SPARCard (ISA), cables, a 5 1/4 drive, a scsi port card, manuals, etc., in the box. This is supposed to be the equivalent of a SS2. What I don't have is the original DOS "switcher" floppy disk, listed in the manual. The drive is marked Solaris (could be SunOS) 1.0.0., which I assume is SunOS 4 software. The manual indicated that the system is shipped with the software on the drive - installation tapes were an extra charge. The system appears to have been installed, then removed and stored. A couple of years ago, I downloaded everything on the Opus ftp site, which is now offline. All files on the ftp site then were for the SPARCard2 and the SPARCard 5, and include the "switcher" or "Incognito" floppy zip file. I believe these were marketed as "mainframe coprocessors". I've never installed the system in an x86 box, in fact, it's in storage. I'll have to drag it out and check for a part number (and _someday_ see if a root pw is set). Martin Marshall Doc Shipley wrote: > > Seriously. > Somebody mentioned last week that they had questions about an Opus > card, I just saw one, a 300PM, on Dan Veeneman's page, and I have the > software (2 DC6150 QIC tapes) for a 400PM. These appear to be for > Solaris, or SunOS, and I read that Opus built "mainframe coprocessors" > for Suns as well as ATs. I think they also built standalone > workstations. > Does anybody have a matched set? Software and hardware? Ever seen > the mainframe coprocessors in action? > These things are really intriguing to me, and really mysterious. > If anybody has an SBus 400PM card and needs the software, or wants to > donate/trade it, I'm willing either way. > If somebody wants to forward this to CCtech, that'd be cool too. > > Doc From ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 12 21:10:44 2002 From: ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk (Greg Elkin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:15 2005 Subject: Viking QTO QBUS board (was Re: Viking QTO WBUS board) In-Reply-To: <3D07F4CA.8A39AF25@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <3D080D34.8078.14B35C71@localhost> David Barnes wrote > I will take a look around... I MAY have an eprom... > Thanks. I also need to sort out an address decode PAL if I am to succeed in changing this QTO to a QDO or better yet a QDT card. I'm buzzing out the only other socketed chip on the board (a 16L8 PAL) that is doing the address decode from BBS7, BDAL12-BDAL2 then 4 inputs from jumpers & providing 1 output to select the Disk CSR/reg & Tape CSR/reg. How the one select provides for 4 word registers at discontiguous addresses I am still thinking about... Then I need to figure out how to blow PALs. Never had the pleasure of doing that bit of fun yet :) the two big 48pin devices in the middle of the board would appear to be dual port rams (1K x 8 each I think from reading the manuals on Zanes site) Fingers crossed I can get an EPROM image for it. greg From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Jun 12 21:36:24 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack References: Message-ID: <3D080528.3E737C0C@jetnet.ab.ca> Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > > Just a sanity check, here. What would be the _DC_ rating of a > > > momentary switch rated at 3A, 125VAC? > > > > > > Doc > > > > About 175 volts. Most 1 farad caps are rated at 5.5 volts. > > Never!. A DC arc is much harder to extinguish than an AC arc (the > simplistic explanation is that the AC voltage drops to 0 twice per cycle, > thus helping to extinguish the arc). The DC rating of a mechanical switch > is not sqrt(2) times the AC rating. > I was thinking of the voltage break down here. I had forgotton about the arcing bit. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Jun 12 22:24:55 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: References: <200206122314.QAA12959@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <20020613032455.GC2943@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 01:55:45AM +0100: [quoting ?] > > The only time I've seen this is on the Ford type starter where > > the pull in for the gear comes from a pole piece in the started > > Pre-Engaged starter motors (that's to say, ones where the solenoid moves > the pinion into mesh before turning on the motor, as opposed to some > device that moves the pinion into mesh when the motor turns, like the old > 'Bendix' drive or the ones where the armature moves along the body of the ['old' Bendix drive? :-)] As far as I know, Ford starters use a separate starter solenoid, mounted above the inner fender, above the passenger-side front tire, about a foot or so away from the battery. The starters themselves use a Bendix spring to engage the starter. A common failure, causing many mechanics to sell people new batteries, new starters, new voltage regulators, new solenoids, etc. is when the screws holding the solenoid to the frame become a little too loose, or if there's some oxidation/rust there causing a bad connection to the frame. Also, it helps to use a piece of high temperature hose, or asbestos tubing, around the cable leading from the solenoid to the starter; this prevents the passenger-side exhause manifold, or headers, from melting the insulation on the cable... when that happens, some mechanics try to sell people new batteries, starters, etc. rather than just replacing, or better insulating, the cable. Disclaimer: as to those newfangled Fords made after the 1970s, I've no idea what sort of peculiar things go on under their hoods (bonnets), and I don't really want to know, but I hear that some don't even use spark plugs, distributors or carburators. All of the new (post 1970s) motorcars are too strange for my tastes; weird machines, extremely weird and overly complex, and cheaply built, machines with expensive price tags. Have engineers forgotten how to design things that work properly while not being overly complex? It appears that needlessly complex gadgetry has replaced functionality. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Wed Jun 12 22:30:24 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <200206122302.QAA12954@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020612233024.00e32264@pop1.epm.net.co> At 04:02 PM 6/12/02 -0700, you wrote: >Hi > This is why there is a condenser on the points of a car. >This allows the points to open before the coil has a chance to >build up too much voltage on the primary. The size of the >capacitor is a compromise between getting the points open >and too much current when the points close. Many older car >manuals would tell you to look at the points to determine >when the capacitor was too large or too small by the amount >of material transfered from contact to contact by the arcing. >For those that haven't tested this by hand, the primary >will kick up to about 400-600 volts because of flyback. >It will make you jump a little. >Dwight I'd say it is more like 200V at most; the transistors typically used in electronic ignition circuits are rated at about 450-600V Vcbo. The real implications of this issue are on the "cleanliness" of the 12V system in a car. It is actually a pretty harsh environment, and electronic devices must withstand these ignition spikes as well as the failure of the battery (in which case, the full alternator voltage, as much as 40V, will be present, rectified, but not filtered). I advised a BSc thesis a long time ago; the student used a microcontroller to build an adaptive ignition system, but proceeded (against my advice) to connect directly the drive transistor to one of the microcontroller outputs, as opposed to using an optocoupler. When the transistor failed, the microcontroller (cmos) latched up and the results were, well, flashing... carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Wed Jun 12 22:50:35 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <3D07E2D9.4EE83495@eoni.com> References: <200206122314.QAA12959@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020612235035.00e32714@pop1.epm.net.co> At 05:11 PM 6/12/02 -0700, you wrote: >How do I know all this? When you're broke, you can open up the >solenoid, rotate the big copper disk 90 deg., put it back together and >not have to spend the $12 for a new one... > >Jim as a student, I used to repair the solenoid in my 1986 chevy nova (the toyota-made one) with pieces of copper plumbing pipe. Boy, did I get my hands greased back then... But, going back to the original topic, as much as I also hate RS, I have fond, lasting memories of my "150 in 1" electronic projects kit. It was the best present that an uncle [1] could give to a 12 year old. carlos. [1] He was a long time radio enthusiast. Around 1934, he built and operated the first AM radio station in his town in rural Mexico. When he was older, I was very proud that he would trust my skills and give me kits to build for him--he could no longer solder. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From jrasite at eoni.com Wed Jun 12 22:54:21 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack References: <200206122314.QAA12959@clulw009.amd.com> <20020613032455.GC2943@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3D081725.714FB591@eoni.com> Since we're venturing waaaaay off topic here... "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > Disclaimer: as to those newfangled Fords made after the 1970s, I've no > idea what sort of peculiar things go on under their hoods (bonnets), > and I don't really want to know, but I hear that some don't even use > spark plugs, distributors or carburators. All of the new (post 1970s) > motorcars are too strange for my tastes; weird machines, extremely > weird and overly complex, and cheaply built, machines with expensive > price tags. > > Have engineers forgotten how to design things that work properly while > not being overly complex? It appears that needlessly complex gadgetry > has replaced functionality. Hi-tech has replaced lo-tech. Prior to the time period mentioned above, automotive systems hadn't significantly changed in five decades. (carburated, kettering ignitioned) Beginning in the mid-seventies, federally mandated emissions standards required those engineers to modify legacy systems to achieve the required pollution levels. From about 1977 to about 1990 American automobile engines were impossible. The engineers were constrained to clean these engines up without really *changing* them. They did this by adding devices such as EGR, Thermal Reactors, modified ignition timing, electronic! carburetors. (I own a 1984 Eagle and it has at least 50' of vacuum hose in it.) By the early 1990s the electronics 'state-of-the-art' had progressed far enough to allow a cost effective change-over to solid state engine controls. This progression has continued to the point that current generation automobiles have a 'tune-up' interval approaching 100k miles. That's right, 100k miles. If I'm not mistaken, current EPA regulations require the manufacturer to warrant that said vehicle will not exceed its emissions requirements for that period. Hence, it actually is to the manufacturer's advantage to build it to last. (Less expensive to make it right than to *make* it right under warranty.) The downside of this is that the owner no longer purchases and replaces a set of points and plugs but instead must either purchase a $3k scanner or take the vehicle to a technician to determine any malfunctions. The upside, discounting the increased reliability, is that an OBD II (On-board diagnostic Revision 2) equipped automobile will tell you or that technician precisely which $500+ component has failed. It will also warn of impending failures by reporting out of spec parameters. When I was first starting out in the automotive trade, most vehicles were worn out, even with meticulous care, at 100 to 150k miles. Today, it is common for a vehicle to go twice to three times that distance without major repairs. Hence the decline of the small independent shop. (I own three four wheeled conveyances. Each of them has 200k+ miles on their original engines. None of them uses significant quantities of lubricants (they don't burn oil.) They're getting tired, but I fully expect to get another 100k out of each of them before replacement. Of course, as they say on the automotive lists, YMMV. (your mileage may vary) Jim From hansp at aconit.org Wed Jun 12 23:06:40 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: Z8000 processor Olivetti M20 References: <200206122252.PAA12944@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3D081A50.7090803@aconit.org> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > I have a machine with a Z8000 that is working. > It is the Olivetti M20. You should be able to find these > in Europe. They were many sold in Italy and Germany. > It uses a OS made by Olivetti called PCOS. Yep, I finally found one in Germany. Do you have software for the machine? I did snag three manuals, one being the hardware reference complete with schematics. The other two are the user manuals and PCOS manual both in english. I could scan or copy in exchange for software. -- hbp From jrasite at eoni.com Wed Jun 12 23:10:39 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack References: <200206122314.QAA12959@clulw009.amd.com> <3.0.2.32.20020612235035.00e32714@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <3D081AF5.E3D3E422@eoni.com> Carlos, FWIW, that kit is still in production and is used in the local jr. college's Intro to Electricity course. Jim Carlos Murillo wrote: > But, going back to the original topic, as much as I also hate RS, > I have fond, lasting memories of my "150 in 1" electronic projects > kit. It was the best present that an uncle [1] could give to a 12 year > old. > From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Jun 12 23:53:20 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: No IMSAI on ebay References: Message-ID: <009301c21296$3de18760$d02dcd18@wayne052602> > I run a set of searches on ebay just about daily. > One of the searches is for IMSAI. This morning, > for the first time in about two years, a search > for IMSAI resulted in no hits. I found this interesting. > Thought others might as well. > It's particularly surprising given the number of sellers who indiscriminately throw the word "IMSAI" into their description when selling anything S-100. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 13 00:54:09 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: Help needed with PSU for DEC "Leprechaun" box In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020613055409.41121.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > --- Tony Duell wrote: > > > Oh, what the heck, I've dug mine out and pulled the PSU... > > > > Nope. Not the same at all. I have three identical units, but no > fuses. > > I am suprised. Are you sure there's not a soldered-in fuse (which might > look more like a resistor)? None. I know what pico fuses look like. There is nothing anywhere on these boards that resembles a fuse. I would expect one, too. There isn't one. > > > Anyway, on my PCB there's a 120k resistor (looks to be about 0.5W, > > > running parallel to the long edge of the PCB... I can't find anything that closely resembles that. There is a largish 3K ceramic resistor next to the 470uF caps... it's good in all three PSUs. > > > My PSU is made by 'Joule Power', apparently. > I've put my box away again. I couldn't see an obvious model number on the > PSU board last night, but if you do post the numbers on yours I can dig > my unit out again and see if I can match them at all. On the back side, in copper, mine says... JOULE POWER inc 107-001-027 and elsewhere it says, in copper LCT60 and in ink LCT60-1202 and on the top, in ink 802256101 rev c1 Good news is I found *another one*. This one (TK50) might have a working supply. Have to check it out later. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 13 01:10:27 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: 88000 machines In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020613061027.32678.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > One of my collecting goals is to acquire an example of each of > > the microprocessor acrhitectures. Now 6502, 8080, 6809, 68000, > > Other CPUs to consider are : > > TMS9900 (TI99/4A, for example, or some Versatec printer/plotters) > 6100 (PDP8-on-a-chip -- DECmates) > Transputer (it's harder to find a computer based on this chip than to > find it on an add-on board for a PC). > 6800 (as distinct from 6809) > ARM > LSI11 (in all its flavours) > All the single-chip HP calculator CPUs (ACT, NUT, Saturn, etc). > MIPS R2000, R3000 > SPARC > Alpha > Microcontrollers (8048, 8051, PIC, ...) Hmm... I think I need a bigger list. I'm missing the Transputer and most of the HP calculator (and one of the MIPS - I have a DECstation that has a MIPS processor, R3000 IIRC). The rest of those, I have. I have a couple of (working) HDS X-terms based on the i960, as well as a few loose chips (PGA package). I also have a couple of 4004 chips - one came out of a commercial kitchen scale, the other out of a non-UPC barcode device for grocery stores (got it at Dayton, c. 1983) > Some are much easier to find than others ;-) Indeed. -ethan > -tony > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Thu Jun 13 01:15:45 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: A VAX 6610 is rolling toward my garage ... Message-ID: <3D083891.30604@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hehe, there goes the last VAX out of my workplace, and right into my garage. And its a 6610! That means I will need to add in a few processors, but there is my NVAX. Much work is before me. I should get Ultrix 4.2 ported to it starting with the 6000-400 files. It can't be so hard after the 6000-500 runs... We'll see. Does anyone have the processor internal registers for the KA66A? With some luck we can drop in just a very small set of kernel files that can be reused under Ultrix 4.5 binary. For NetBSD it will be a little harder to replicate all the missing stuff. I think I will want to set up a fast cross compiling or native VAX box for that first. That also means that a 6400 will become free on relatively short notice. This one goes to Micheal McCabe, if he wants it (?) I am a bit reluctant yet to convert the 6400 to a -600 so quickly after I barely set it up. I guess I will take some time to actually do the conversion. But in a matter of 4 weeks after I took her home, I should probably get rid of that extraneous then 64x0 cabinet. (the 'x' depends a little on how I will distribute all the CPUs.) Also, there are the XMI and VAXBI backplanes (with some defect, but certainly not everything on both of them) free for the taking. They aren't claimed yet and that means I will decompose those shortly. cheers, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Jun 13 08:34:51 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack Message-ID: I had a 12-in-1 RS kit, but that was back (ca. 1960) when you had to _solder_ the connections (and unsolder them to change from one project to another). It also used 120V, one tube, and no transisters. Great fun, though. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Arnott [mailto:jrasite@eoni.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 11:11 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: I hate Radio Shack Carlos, FWIW, that kit is still in production and is used in the local jr. college's Intro to Electricity course. Jim Carlos Murillo wrote: > But, going back to the original topic, as much as I also hate RS, > I have fond, lasting memories of my "150 in 1" electronic projects > kit. It was the best present that an uncle [1] could give to a 12 year > old. > From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu Jun 13 08:46:41 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004401c212e0$c02946a0$023ca8c0@blafleur> > But, going back to the original topic, as much as I also hate RS, I > have fond, lasting memories of my "150 in 1" electronic projects kit. > It was the best present that an uncle [1] could give to a 12 year old. My 150-in-1 also got more use than any other present I received... Except for my Commodore PET. THAT present not only got more use than anything else, but it set the direction of my life. - Bob From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Jun 13 09:24:44 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A12@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk > > > The guy there is accustomed to seeing me come in for DE9 connectors, > > hoods, & computer stuff, and always asks "What are you building this > > time?" He doesn't know anything, but at least he's curious... I found > > a push-button rated at 3A, 125VAC, and brought it up. Darrell says > > "Building one from scratch now, are ya?" I told him no, it's a starter > > switch for my pickup. He refused to sell it to me, because "Those > > starters pull 20 or 30 amps, and that's *DC*, too! That switch will > > Hmm... In every UK car I have worked on, the starter motor itself draws > about 600A on-load from the battery. This current is switched by the > starter solenoid contacts which acts (in part -- it also moves the > pinion into mesh with the flywheel) as a large relay. > ... > > Now, admittedly the former should only operate until the solenoid has > pulled in, But if there are problems (a typical one is a relatively high > high resistance connection in the circuit which limits the current to > (say) 10A -- the solenoid will then not pull in and disconnect the first > winding), then the current through the switch will be a lot higher than > you might expect. > > I certainly wouldn't use a 3A AC swtich for a starter solenoid operating > button. It's way underrated. > > -tony > Umm. what about just going to your local race car/performance auto shop(or website), and buy a real starter button for your truck? e.g. for only $8.55US... http://www.driverfx.com/products/productDetails.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=1788 187&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=1620351&affID=2958&bmUID=1023977805203 -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Jun 13 09:29:08 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: VERY good weekend In-Reply-To: <3D06D287.99B433E5@ccp.com> Message-ID: <3D0865E4.17574.997F4EF@localhost> Wow talk about flame-bait. The arguments are that the ST came out the door first. The ST<>Amiga wars do live on. In my opinion the ST was a much better machine and I do have 2 A-1000s, a 2000 and a 3000. They are anything but rare, just look at E-bay. They've also retained their value better. The comp.sys.atari.st newsgroup is very active. Try one before you simply repeat the rabid Amigans crap. The Atari was the machine of choice for most serious musicians and is still used by many especially in Europe. The Tramiel-Amiga-Atari war was complicated and is well documented. Check out Curt Vendels The Atari History Museum: http://www.atarimuseum.com Sheesh ! Lawrence > Doc Shipley wrote: > > > > Well. > > I've been working on, and cleaning & testing, the weekend's finds. It > > was a nice haul. > > edited > > > An Atari 1040ST with SC1224 display and mouse - works great, no > > burn-in, floppy reads & formats perfectly. $5.98 > > edited > > > > Doc > I remember that one, an Amiga wannabe. Talk about a rare duck there . . > . . . .I think Jack Tramiel pushed that one through Atari just after he > bailed ship at Commode Door, to get back at his former company. > > Nice haul indeed. > > Gary Hildebrand > St. Joseph, MO lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From csmith at amdocs.com Thu Jun 13 09:24:11 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: 88000 machines Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E04139E3B@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Pat Finnegan [mailto:pat@purdueriots.com] > The 88000 I have is in a NCD 88k X-Windows Terminal. The Well, chiming in for myself here, I have one 88k based system. It's a Data General Aviion workstation. Eventually I'll get the SIMM socket repaired, get some SCSI cables (with large 50-pin D shaped plugs) for it and get it running. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL "Confutatis maledictus, flammis acribus addictus, voca me cum benedictis. Oro supplex et acclinis, cor contritunt quasi cinis, gere curarn mei finis." -Requiem -------------- next part -------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this message is proprietary of Amdocs, protected from disclosure, and may be privileged. The information is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s) of the message. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, use, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Jun 13 09:46:28 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A13@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: David Woyciesjes > > > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk > > > > ... > > > > I certainly wouldn't use a 3A AC swtich for a starter solenoid operating > > > button. It's way underrated. > > > > -tony > > > Umm. what about just going to your local race car/performance auto > shop(or website), and buy a real starter button for your truck? > > e.g. for only $8.55US... > http://www.driverfx.com/products/productDetails.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=17 > 88 > 187&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=1620351&affID=2958&bmUID=1023977805203 > > -- > Okay, that website sucks. No picture. Google for "starter button" turned up this one... http://homepage.ntlworld.com/roybooth/willfly/starter_switch.html -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From elaine at ferranti.us Wed Jun 12 17:35:02 2002 From: elaine at ferranti.us (Elaine Benner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: IBM AT Message-ID: <001401c21261$64bb0120$0902a8c0@ferr2> Hello: We have an old network system on an IBM AT and need to retrieve some information from it. We are having problems that would indicate a CMOS battery failure. Do you have batteries for this model #AA13240? The part number for the battery (#8286121) was on the power supply. Since I don't see an obvious battery in sight, could the battery be located inside the power supply? Do you have schematics for this particular system? You can e-mail me at this address. I job share with Elaine. Thanks for your help. Millie Shenton Ferranti International, Inc. Lancaster, PA 16504-3025 (717) 285-7151 (717) 285-7058 FAX -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020612/cdc06b5f/attachment.html From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jun 12 17:46:28 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: Need manuals (bounty request $$$) Message-ID: I am searching for the following manuals: PCP-88, K. Stapleford (Foxboro publication) A Summary Description of the Standard DDC Functions, R. Rankin (Foxboro publication) GE/PAC 4000 Free-Time System User's manual GE/PAC 4000 Monitor User's manual If you've got any of these, please contact me at . Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mrfusion at uranium.vaxpower.org Thu Jun 13 09:32:02 2002 From: mrfusion at uranium.vaxpower.org (Lord Isildur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: A VAX 6610 is rolling toward my garage ... In-Reply-To: <3D083891.30604@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: sweet! an nvax -6000!! On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Hehe, there goes the last VAX out of my workplace, and right into > my garage. And its a 6610! That means I will need to add in a few > processors, but there is my NVAX. Much work is before me. I should > get Ultrix 4.2 ported to it starting with the 6000-400 files. It > can't be so hard after the 6000-500 runs... We'll see. Does > anyone have the processor internal registers for the KA66A? > > With some luck we can drop in just a very small set of kernel files > that can be reused under Ultrix 4.5 binary. For NetBSD it will be a > little harder to replicate all the missing stuff. I think I will want > to set up a fast cross compiling or native VAX box for that first. > > That also means that a 6400 will become free on relatively short > notice. This one goes to Micheal McCabe, if he wants it (?) I am a > bit reluctant yet to convert the 6400 to a -600 so quickly after > I barely set it up. I guess I will take some time to actually do > the conversion. But in a matter of 4 weeks after I took her home, > I should probably get rid of that extraneous then 64x0 cabinet. > (the 'x' depends a little on how I will distribute all the CPUs.) > > Also, there are the XMI and VAXBI backplanes (with some defect, > but certainly not everything on both of them) free for the taking. > They aren't claimed yet and that means I will decompose those > shortly. > > cheers, > -Gunther > > -- > Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org > Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care > Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine > tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org > > > From curt at atari-history.com Thu Jun 13 09:59:14 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: A VAX 6610 is rolling toward my garage ... References: <3D083891.30604@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <006601c212ea$e228b100$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Just out of curiosity.... what are your electric bills like??? Doesn't the 6610 use a 220 line? Also, what about cooling.... my old Microvax II use to push so much damned heat out of it, I used to be able to practically heat my 1 room attic apartment in the winter from that beastie. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gunther Schadow" To: ; ; "Micheal H. McCabe" Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 2:15 AM Subject: A VAX 6610 is rolling toward my garage ... > Hehe, there goes the last VAX out of my workplace, and right into > my garage. And its a 6610! That means I will need to add in a few > processors, but there is my NVAX. Much work is before me. I should > get Ultrix 4.2 ported to it starting with the 6000-400 files. It > can't be so hard after the 6000-500 runs... We'll see. Does > anyone have the processor internal registers for the KA66A? > > With some luck we can drop in just a very small set of kernel files > that can be reused under Ultrix 4.5 binary. For NetBSD it will be a > little harder to replicate all the missing stuff. I think I will want > to set up a fast cross compiling or native VAX box for that first. > > That also means that a 6400 will become free on relatively short > notice. This one goes to Micheal McCabe, if he wants it (?) I am a > bit reluctant yet to convert the 6400 to a -600 so quickly after > I barely set it up. I guess I will take some time to actually do > the conversion. But in a matter of 4 weeks after I took her home, > I should probably get rid of that extraneous then 64x0 cabinet. > (the 'x' depends a little on how I will distribute all the CPUs.) > > Also, there are the XMI and VAXBI backplanes (with some defect, > but certainly not everything on both of them) free for the taking. > They aren't claimed yet and that means I will decompose those > shortly. > > cheers, > -Gunther > > -- > Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org > Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care > Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine > tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org > > From dan at ekoan.com Thu Jun 13 10:15:45 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: 88000 machines In-Reply-To: <3D07C2CE.E0E11E3@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020613105616.04248710@enigma> At 10:53 PM 6/12/02 +0100, you wrote: >All this mention of Motorola's 88000 RISC chip has made me wonder >what machines were built around it. Did Data General make anything >with it? I've got four Data General Aviion AV4300's here in my basement. The main board in the 4300 machine has an 88100RC25, two 88200RC25s and a 68020. I can provide pictures upon request. By the way, I'd be willing to trade one or more of these machines for other interesting equipment (my primary interest is Hewlett-Packard). Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From lists at subatomix.com Thu Jun 13 10:20:52 2002 From: lists at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: VERY good weekend In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1294212577.20020613102052@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, June 12, 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > > A Telex EB6 Dead Reckoning Computer. > > Well, 1975 would make it a fairly late model since they were commonly used > during - and probably before - WWII. I think they are still in use. I was in flight school about 5-6 years ago (didn't finish), and my instructor had me using an E-6B every now and then. I bought mine brand new from Sporty's Pilot Shop in 1996. BTW, one place I trained (Airman Flight School in Norman, OK) is also one place where Zacarias Moussaoui trained. He even seems to have opened a bank account and joined a gym here in Norman. Freaky. -- Jeffrey Sharp The email address lists@subatomix.com is for mailing list traffic. Please send off-list mail to roach jay ess ess at wasp subatomix beetle dot com. You may need to remove some bugs first. From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jun 13 10:22:36 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: IBM AT References: <001401c21261$64bb0120$0902a8c0@ferr2> Message-ID: <3D08B8BC.2050508@internet1.net> Hello, IBM changed the AT at least once through it's production run. The one I have is a later model, since it is an 8mhz system. Yours may differ somewhat, but I'll tell you what I can see. I find that same number (#8286121) on my battery. It's actually a Panansonic replacement battery BR-E3 6v and looks like a small black box with a cord and plug. It plugs in to the motherboard right behind the keyboard connector. Mine was held is held in place to the side of the case with velcro. I'm not sure if the velcro is factory or not. If your machine has been sitting, unused for sometime, I suspect that maybe someone took the battery for another use. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Elaine Benner wrote: > Hello: > > We have an old network system on an IBM AT and need to retrieve some > information from it. We are having problems that would indicate a CMOS > battery failure. Do you have batteries for this model #AA13240? The > part number for the battery (#8286121) was on the power supply. Since I > don't see an obvious battery in sight, could the battery be located > inside the power supply? Do you have schematics for this particular system? > > You can e-mail me at this address. I job share with Elaine. > > Thanks for your help. > > Millie Shenton > Ferranti International, Inc. > Lancaster, PA 16504-3025 > (717) 285-7151 > (717) 285-7058 FAX > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 13 10:41:40 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: A VAX 6610 is rolling toward my garage ... In-Reply-To: <3D083891.30604@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <20020613154140.20633.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Gunther Schadow wrote: > Hehe, there goes the last VAX out of my workplace, and right into > my garage... Been there, done that, but it was all 11/7xx machines. :-) (well... that plus some bitty Qbus ones and the one 8200) > And its a 6610! Nice. > Also, there are the XMI and VAXBI backplanes (with some defect, > but certainly not everything on both of them) free for the taking. > They aren't claimed yet and that means I will decompose those > shortly. Does this mean that you might have some BI peripherals shaking loose? You won't have one, but what I'm really looking for at the moment is a 16MB VAXBI memory card or two - between a wad of 4MB and 2MB cards, basic peripherals (KDB50, COMBOARD-BI, DEBNT, 2nd CPU (if I run my 8200 as an 8300), DMB32), I'm out of BI slots. I could probably get away with one 16MB card (MS820-DA?) and run it with a 4MB card or two - that should be plenty of RAM for one user. We used to run the entire company on an 11/750 w/8MB in the mid-1990s - the two biggest memory pigs were VMS MAIL and MASS-11 (3rd-party word processor). So... while I'm sure you don't have one, I intend to get one eventually, leaving room for interesting BI peripherals, should any show up. I know that BI SCSI cards were made, but at $8K-$10 a pop, they didn't sell like hot cakes. Love to locate one, though. -ethan -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 13 10:44:38 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <3D081725.714FB591@eoni.com> Message-ID: <20020613154438.565.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jim Arnott wrote: > Since we're venturing waaaaay off topic here... Indeed. > The downside of this is that the owner no longer purchases and replaces > a set of points and plugs but instead must either purchase a $3k scanner > or take the vehicle to a technician to determine any malfunctions. The > upside, discounting the increased reliability, is that an OBD II > (On-board diagnostic Revision 2) equipped automobile will tell you or > that technician precisely which $500+ component has failed. It will also > warn of impending failures by reporting out of spec parameters. I have a $70 PIC-based ODB-II scanner. Unfortunately, the free software with it does not work with my 1998 Saturn. :-( If I want a scanner, I may have to step up to the $350-$500 range. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Jun 13 10:58:13 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: E-6B usage In-Reply-To: <1294212577.20020613102052@subatomix.com> Message-ID: As far as I know, the FAA still requires students to know how to use an E-6B, and they're still very readily available. I don't remember the exact rules anymore since it's been sometime since I've flown, but you are not permitted to rely on a device that requires external power or batteries, without a manual fallback system, since either or both may fail in flight. There are a number of E-6B type computers out there, both mechanial wheels, and electronic. Sportys sold a calculator like E-6B (I have one still), and it's batteries like crazy. Some E-6B ares much classier than others. Mine is a mid-range solid aluminum wheel. There are plastic ones, hybrids, etc. Some are quite attractive, and I believe collected by some people. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jeffrey Sharp Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 11:21 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: VERY good weekend On Wednesday, June 12, 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > > A Telex EB6 Dead Reckoning Computer. > > Well, 1975 would make it a fairly late model since they were commonly used > during - and probably before - WWII. I think they are still in use. I was in flight school about 5-6 years ago (didn't finish), and my instructor had me using an E-6B every now and then. I bought mine brand new from Sporty's Pilot Shop in 1996. BTW, one place I trained (Airman Flight School in Norman, OK) is also one place where Zacarias Moussaoui trained. He even seems to have opened a bank account and joined a gym here in Norman. Freaky. -- Jeffrey Sharp The email address lists@subatomix.com is for mailing list traffic. Please send off-list mail to roach jay ess ess at wasp subatomix beetle dot com. You may need to remove some bugs first. From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Jun 13 11:01:41 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <20020613154438.565.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The guy at www.obd-2.com, Alex Peper, has a low cost one that should work with your Saturn. There's also a project on Sourceforge.net for an open source scanner, although it's still in it's infancy. There are plenty of alternatives to $3K scanners these days. --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 11:45 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: I hate Radio Shack --- Jim Arnott wrote: > Since we're venturing waaaaay off topic here... Indeed. > The downside of this is that the owner no longer purchases and replaces > a set of points and plugs but instead must either purchase a $3k scanner > or take the vehicle to a technician to determine any malfunctions. The > upside, discounting the increased reliability, is that an OBD II > (On-board diagnostic Revision 2) equipped automobile will tell you or > that technician precisely which $500+ component has failed. It will also > warn of impending failures by reporting out of spec parameters. I have a $70 PIC-based ODB-II scanner. Unfortunately, the free software with it does not work with my 1998 Saturn. :-( If I want a scanner, I may have to step up to the $350-$500 range. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From rschaefe at gcfn.org Thu Jun 13 11:40:28 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: A VAX 6610 is rolling toward my garage ... In-Reply-To: <006601c212ea$e228b100$0a00a8c0@cvendel> References: <006601c212ea$e228b100$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <65441.128.146.70.159.1023986428.squirrel@www.gcfn.org> > Just out of curiosity.... what are your electric bills like??? > Doesn't the 6610 use a 220 line? Also, what about cooling.... my old > Microvax II use to push so much damned heat out of it, I used to be > able to practically heat my 1 room attic apartment in the winter from > that beastie. Nah, the 6000 line uses 208V 3phase... but there's a simple coversion to 220 single phase. I haven't measured, but rumour has it drawing about the same as 3-4 '486 boxen. I'd imagine that's just one processor, though. My 6320 doesn't seem to out out as much heat as my network rack, but then again it has some big fans... > > > Curt Bob From allain at panix.com Thu Jun 13 11:47:35 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack References: Message-ID: <020f01c212fa$0e50de60$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> +AD4- +AFs-TD+AF0- .. 24V 10A .. could easily generate and +AD4- maintain copper arcs of about 3/4+ACI- between the +AD4- switch contacts I would think of more like 400V for a 3/4+ACI- arc. Is it that the high wattage was ionising the copper or otherwise altering makeup of the air gap? John A. From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jun 13 12:47:29 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: VERY good weekend In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Doc wrote: > > So, E6B is a type designation, right? Not a model name? I can't find > > any info on the FDF-60, so I don't know if the "1975" has anything to do > > with its age. Very cool little instrument, though. > > Well, 1975 would make it a fairly late model since they were commonly > used during - and probably before - WWII. > - don They're still being sold as part of pilot "student kits". As a matter of fact, ASA sells one made of <> pasteboard. To be fair, they sell a really sweet-looking metal model too. Doc From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jun 13 12:51:59 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: I hate JC Whitney In-Reply-To: <20020613032455.GC2943@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > ['old' Bendix drive? :-)] It's like "old MS-DOS" > Disclaimer: as to those newfangled Fords made after the 1970s, I've no > idea what sort of peculiar things go on under their hoods (bonnets), > and I don't really want to know, but I hear that some don't even use > spark plugs, distributors or carburators. All of the new (post 1970s) > motorcars are too strange for my tastes; weird machines, extremely > weird and overly complex, and cheaply built, machines with expensive > price tags. OK Should automotive discussions follow the same 10 year rule, or should we set the bar at 20 years for automotive? You talked about insulating starter wires. The "brain" (computer) for the 1968 and on VW squareback fool injection was heat sensitive. A few of them were actually DESTROYED (needing somebody of Tony's ability to repair) when auto paint shops baked new paint jobs. > Have engineers forgotten how to design things that work properly while > not being overly complex? It appears that needlessly complex gadgetry > has replaced functionality. A glance at modern (OT) computers or software will answer THAT question. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred From dittman at dittman.net Thu Jun 13 12:55:18 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: HSC Stuff Possibly Available in MI Message-ID: <200206131755.g5DHtI318093@narnia.int.dittman.net> If you are in the Grand Rapids, Michigan area and would be interested in some HSCxx controllers, disks, and TA91 tape drives, please email me privately. The requirements are that you pick them up at the company, take *ALL* the equipment (you'll need something a bit larger than a pickup truck), and sign a waiver of responsibility. You'll also need to pick the equipment up by the end of June (although I may get a week or two extension on that). There may be a minimal $1 charge for the equipment to get it off the books. I haven't finalized the deal, so it may fall through, but more than likely it will go through as the only alternative is for the company to pay for disposal. I made a deal with them that I'd broker the deal so they wouldn't have to deal with arranging everything themselves. Again, email me privately. I'll make the arrangements between you and the company. BTW, I don't work for the company with the equipment. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Thu Jun 13 13:06:46 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E5D@BUSH02> > I would think of more like 400V for a 3/4" arc. > It's about 60v once an arc is established and is almost independant of arc length (10v at each contact and 40v across the plasma) > Is it that the high wattage was ionising the > copper or otherwise altering makeup of the air gap? > It's the air being ionised. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 13 13:18:56 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020613181856.14638.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- "J.C. Wren" wrote: > The guy at www.obd-2.com, Alex Peper, has a low cost one that should > work with your Saturn. I didn't see that one when I was looking a couple of months ago. It's double the cost of the one I did buy, but if it works, it's probably worth it. > There's also a project on Sourceforge.net for an open > source scanner, although it's still in it's infancy. I did see that one. Too green. I needed something last month to clear a code (turns out 150 miles was enough to clear the "CHECK ENGINE" light after I made the necessary repairs). Thanks for the tip. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From allain at panix.com Thu Jun 13 13:27:23 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: NYC: "bring HW" References: <020f01c212fa$0e50de60$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <000701c21307$f6fbef80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I plan to be out of NYC this weekend, but I noticed this.... notice from my server. finger picnic@panix.com: June 16, 1:30pm "Bring food! Bring drink! Bring antique hardware..." John A. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 13 13:53:57 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: E6B (was Re: VERY good weekend) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020613185357.41392.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Doc wrote: > On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > > On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Doc wrote: > > > > So, E6B is a type designation, right? Not a model name? I always thought of it as a model name, but not a model specific to a vendor; does that make it a type designation? It's probably a former military designator for some original COMPUTER, FLIGHT, MODEL E6B or some such, but that's just a guess. > They're still being sold as part of pilot "student kits". As a matter > of fact, ASA sells one made of <> pasteboard. That's what I have - absolute backup for my Palm running flight software. > To be fair, they sell a really sweet-looking metal model too. It is sweet, but it costs a lot more than the pasteboard one. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jun 13 14:16:52 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: E6B (was Re: VERY good weekend) In-Reply-To: <20020613185357.41392.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Doc wrote: > > > > > > So, E6B is a type designation, right? Not a model name? > > I always thought of it as a model name, but not a model specific to a > vendor; does that make it a type designation? It's probably a former > military designator for some original COMPUTER, FLIGHT, MODEL E6B or > some such, but that's just a guess. From the Telex E-6B manual: "Originally designed by the late Lt. Philip Dalton, USNR, the E-6B computer was adopted by the Army Air Corp in 1942 and has appeared on the civilian market under different labels and variations. It has since been adopted by the U.S. Navy and now by the U.S. Army for helicopter pilots." Also, on the "type designation" question, while reading the friendly manual (which covers 3 models - FDF-51A/57/60) I also found a reference to "the Telex type E-6B Dead Reckoning Computer". > > To be fair, they sell a really sweet-looking metal model too. > > It is sweet, but it costs a lot more than the pasteboard one. Only about $30. I may just be a snob, but I have a real problem with cardboard anything that's meant to be used more than once. Doc From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu Jun 13 14:38:06 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: Non-DEC SCSI tape drives with VMS Message-ID: <000301c21311$d75a8240$023ca8c0@blafleur> Has anyone successfully used non-DEC SCSI tape (cartridge) drives with VMS? If so, what types have you been successful with? Travan? DAT? 8mm? Which models? I just hooked up an HP SureStore TR4, and it's recognized, the device is an HP T4000s. But when I try to access it (INIT a tape, etc) I get a "parity error". I don't have any Travan-4 tapes though, just Travan-5 tapes, so that's what I tried... Could that cause a parity error? From donm at cts.com Thu Jun 13 14:46:41 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: E6B (was Re: VERY good weekend) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Doc wrote: > On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Doc wrote: > > > > > > > > So, E6B is a type designation, right? Not a model name? > > > > I always thought of it as a model name, but not a model specific to a > > vendor; does that make it a type designation? It's probably a former > > military designator for some original COMPUTER, FLIGHT, MODEL E6B or > > some such, but that's just a guess. > > From the Telex E-6B manual: > > "Originally designed by the late Lt. Philip Dalton, USNR, the E-6B > computer was adopted by the Army Air Corp in 1942 and has appeared on > the civilian market under different labels and variations. It has since > been adopted by the U.S. Navy and now by the U.S. Army for helicopter > pilots." Thanks for that quote. A google search was not at all productive from a historical point of view. - don > Also, on the "type designation" question, while reading the friendly > manual (which covers 3 models - FDF-51A/57/60) I also found a reference > to "the Telex type E-6B Dead Reckoning Computer". > > > > To be fair, they sell a really sweet-looking metal model too. > > > > It is sweet, but it costs a lot more than the pasteboard one. > > Only about $30. I may just be a snob, but I have a real problem with > cardboard anything that's meant to be used more than once. > > > Doc > > From csmith at amdocs.com Thu Jun 13 14:48:36 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: Non-DEC SCSI tape drives with VMS Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E04139E4A@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Lafleur [mailto:bob_lafleur@technologist.com] > Has anyone successfully used non-DEC SCSI tape (cartridge) drives with > VMS? If so, what types have you been successful with? Travan? > DAT? 8mm? > Which models? Used an HP DDS drive. No problem, but I don't remember the model. I know of an Exabyte "Eliant something-or-other" D8 drive that was used on a VMS system. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL "Confutatis maledictus, flammis acribus addictus, voca me cum benedictis. Oro supplex et acclinis, cor contritunt quasi cinis, gere curarn mei finis." -Requiem -------------- next part -------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this message is proprietary of Amdocs, protected from disclosure, and may be privileged. The information is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s) of the message. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, use, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jun 13 15:08:37 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: Atari ST; Was Re: VERY good weekend In-Reply-To: <3D0865E4.17574.997F4EF@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > Wow talk about flame-bait. The arguments are that the ST came out the > door first. The ST<>Amiga wars do live on. In my opinion the ST was a much > better machine and I do have 2 A-1000s, a 2000 and a 3000. They are > anything but rare, just look at E-bay. They've also retained their value > better. This one, a plain-jane 1040ST, is a Rev C m/b and has the original 6-chip ROMs with TOS v1.00. I made a bootdisk to boot into TOS v2.06, which works fine at the expense of 256k of RAM, it's not a permanent solution. Are the 6-chip ROM images for v1.04 available anywhere? I've found the TOS ROMs here & there, but not the idividual chip images. Come to think of it, are the ROM chips soldered or socketed? I looked while cleaning it, and have already forgotten.... Doc From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jun 13 15:18:57 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: Atari ST; Was Re: VERY good weekend In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > This one, a plain-jane 1040ST, is a Rev C m/b and has the original >6-chip ROMs with TOS v1.00. I made a bootdisk to boot into TOS v2.06, >which works fine at the expense of 256k of RAM, it's not a permanent >solution. Are the 6-chip ROM images for v1.04 available anywhere? I've >found the TOS ROMs here & there, but not the idividual chip images. Come >to think of it, are the ROM chips soldered or socketed? I looked while >cleaning it, and have already forgotten.... I believe it depended on the ST model. My MegaST came with 1.02 and I upgraded it to 1.04. It was two socketed chips. If I remember correctly it would have taken an adapter of some sort to go to a higher version than that in it. How did you boot 2.06 off of floppy? I've never had the pleasure of using a newer ST, such as the Falcon or TT, but I was always annoyed by the low-res color screens. This annoyed me on the Amiga too but you could do things on the A1000 that you couldn't on the ST, such as the 4,096 color HAM modes. My Mega always runs the higher resolution mono monitor because of this...too bad the screen is so small! Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From curt at atari-history.com Thu Jun 13 15:21:16 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: Atari ST; Was Re: VERY good weekend References: Message-ID: <00e101c21317$df467f30$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Doc, If you need TOS ROM's, memory upgrades, HD's, accelerators and the such, go to B&C Atari Sales & Service, they have a great selection of items, sometimes there prices are not always current, so if you see or don't see something on their site: www.myatari.com then give Bruce or Cathy a call at: 530-295-9270 (California) Tell them Curt sent you, they'll do right by you! :-) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc" To: Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 4:08 PM Subject: Atari ST; Was Re: VERY good weekend > On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > Wow talk about flame-bait. The arguments are that the ST came out the > > door first. The ST<>Amiga wars do live on. In my opinion the ST was a much > > better machine and I do have 2 A-1000s, a 2000 and a 3000. They are > > anything but rare, just look at E-bay. They've also retained their value > > better. > > This one, a plain-jane 1040ST, is a Rev C m/b and has the original > 6-chip ROMs with TOS v1.00. I made a bootdisk to boot into TOS v2.06, > which works fine at the expense of 256k of RAM, it's not a permanent > solution. Are the 6-chip ROM images for v1.04 available anywhere? I've > found the TOS ROMs here & there, but not the idividual chip images. Come > to think of it, are the ROM chips soldered or socketed? I looked while > cleaning it, and have already forgotten.... > > > Doc > From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jun 13 15:50:49 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: Atari ST; Was Re: VERY good weekend In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > I believe it depended on the ST model. My MegaST came with > 1.02 and I upgraded it to 1.04. It was two socketed chips. If I > remember correctly it would have taken an adapter of some sort to go > to a higher version than that in it. How did you boot 2.06 off of > floppy? Yes, v1.04 was available both as 6-chip (192k) and 2-chip (256k) sets. I _think_, from the little reading I've done, that since you have a 2-chip board, you can just replace the ROMs. Disclaimer: It appears that use of any of the TOS ROM images without owning the actual ROMs is, while common, still verboten. The following description is solely intended for informational purposes. :^P To boot from floppy, I would install STEEM on the Linux PC, find a valid ".st" disk image, format it in the emulator to 360k, and run "credisk" from ftp.atari.st on it. credisk puts a bootblock and MTOSBOOT.SYS on the "floppy". Then I would copy "tos206us.rom", also from ftp.atari.st, onto the floppy. The credisk README warns that you'll get a ROM CRC error at boot, but AFAICT, it shouldn't affect operation. It does eat 256k RAM, since the OS is running in volatile memory. STEEM doesn't write to floppy very well, but you could simply dd the finished 360k .st image to a SSDD floppy. If you didn't want to fool with all that, someone who legally owned the v2.06 ROM might ascertain that you legally own the v2.06 ROM, and email you the dd image. You _should_ be able to use credisk on the actual ST, but it won't run on mine. I can't remember the error, but I think it relates to the early TOS version. In fact, I don't remember the whole process real clearly, because I did all this right after some very ex[p|t]ensive dental work. Doc From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 13 14:15:31 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: 88000 machines In-Reply-To: <20020613061027.32678.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jun 12, 2 11:10:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1575 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020613/5c06677a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 13 15:31:52 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: from "Feldman, Robert" at Jun 13, 2 07:34:51 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1125 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020613/b44eb350/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 13 13:57:17 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:17 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <20020613032455.GC2943@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Jun 12, 2 11:24:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4156 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020613/22ea26e8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 13 14:09:14 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:17 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020612235035.00e32714@pop1.epm.net.co> from "Carlos Murillo" at Jun 12, 2 11:50:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1785 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020613/9e724747/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 13 13:42:42 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:17 2005 Subject: IBM AT In-Reply-To: <001401c21261$64bb0120$0902a8c0@ferr2> from "Elaine Benner" at Jun 12, 2 06:35:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2294 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020613/1e9e2886/attachment.ksh From jrasite at eoni.com Thu Jun 13 18:00:45 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:17 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack References: Message-ID: <3D092402.F1A54EED@eoni.com> My absolutely favorite quote: "Parts left out cost nothing and have an infinite service life." Chas. (Boss) Kettering Chief Engineer General Motors Tony Duell wrote: > > I believe that I.K. Brunell once said 'Any third-rate engineer can make a > complicated device even more complicated. It takes a genius to go back to > first principles'. From what I can see, there are a lot of 3rd-rate > engineers out there at the moment. > > -tony From ab at lists.gxis.de Thu Jun 13 17:58:42 2002 From: ab at lists.gxis.de (Alexander Bochmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:17 2005 Subject: VERY good weekend In-Reply-To: References: <3D06D287.99B433E5@ccp.com> Message-ID: <20020613225842.GJ18314@gxis.de> Hi, ...on Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 12:25:12AM -0500, Doc wrote: > Are the DMA-SCSI adapters unobtainium? Sounds useful. Best Electronics has two or three different types (as well as almost anything else Atari). At $75, they are not cheaper than 10 years ago, though... http://www.best-electronics-ca.com/hard-dri.htm somewhere towards the end of the page. Alex. From jrasite at eoni.com Thu Jun 13 18:03:48 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:17 2005 Subject: Network card for LaserJet References: Message-ID: <3D0924B8.D5E7B845@eoni.com> It's 8 years old, so it's off-topic but I would like some info befor I plug it in... Printer: QMS PS-1700 Card: Extended Systems ESI 2041 Share Spool It appears to be an ethernet card for the printer (4 RJ-45 connectors) Anyone have experience with them? Jim From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jun 13 18:09:06 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:17 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack References: Message-ID: <3D092612.ED0E3DAF@jetnet.ab.ca> Tony Duell wrote: > Anyway, what amazed and worried me was the power supply circuit used. It > consisted of a 6V transformer for the valve heaters and a half-wave > rectifier to produce the HT (B+) directly from the mains. The neutral > line of the mains was connected to the metal chassis. And some of the > projects used headphones. I can think of plenty of ways that could turn > into an 'electric chair'.... Sadly this seems to be the norm for some Valve projects. I have old book "Electricity and Electronics " - McGraw Hill 1964 that has a One Tube Radio with a 1/2 wave recifier (110 AC) and 25 watt 750 ohm resistor to drop the AC to 12 volts for the heater. All the projects use a audio output transformer so the speaker is the only safe item. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From ab at lists.gxis.de Thu Jun 13 18:08:35 2002 From: ab at lists.gxis.de (Alexander Bochmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:17 2005 Subject: VERY good weekend In-Reply-To: <3D06D287.99B433E5@ccp.com> References: <3D06D287.99B433E5@ccp.com> Message-ID: <20020613230835.GK18314@gxis.de> ...on Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 11:48:07PM -0500, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > > An Atari 1040ST with SC1224 display and mouse - works great, no > > burn-in, floppy reads & formats perfectly. $5.98 > I remember that one, an Amiga wannabe. Talk about a rare duck there . . *ouch* Well, the Atari ST was a major success in Europe, so 1040STs are not exactly rare... It's a problem to find one at that price, though... I just get an ST Book in a quite respecable condition, that was somewhat less easy to find - as far as everyone sais, only about 1000 were sold... /|\lex. :) From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Jun 13 18:30:39 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:17 2005 Subject: HSC Stuff Possibly Available in MI Message-ID: Aren't TA91s DEC versions of one of those freakish IBM 36-track tape cartridge drives? Damn me, for not living near Ohio. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Jun 13 18:31:07 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:17 2005 Subject: HSC Stuff Possibly Available in MI Message-ID: Oops, Michigan even... *sigh*.. this has not been my day. Will J _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 13 18:28:23 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:17 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <3D092402.F1A54EED@eoni.com> from "Jim Arnott" at Jun 13, 2 04:00:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 312 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020614/1d515b95/attachment.ksh From jrasite at eoni.com Thu Jun 13 18:34:33 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:17 2005 Subject: Network card for LaserJet References: <3D0924B8.D5E7B845@eoni.com> Message-ID: <3D092BEB.6DE17560@eoni.com> Never mind... Doesn't physically fit. A real Aw S... moment. Jim Jim Arnott wrote: > > It's 8 years old, so it's off-topic but I would like some info before I > plug it in... > > Printer: QMS PS-1700 > Card: Extended Systems ESI 2041 Share Spool > > It appears to be an ethernet card for the printer (4 RJ-45 connectors) > Anyone have experience with them? > > Jim From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jun 13 18:33:37 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:17 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > At one time (1940s?) there was an idea in the UK to used a single machine > as both the starter motor and dynamo (DC generator). It was generally > chain-driven from the crankshaft, and I think it had separate > windings for the 2 functions. The problem was finding a gear ratio > between the machine and the engine that (a) let the engine turn fast > enough to start and (b) didn't cause the electrical machine to fly apart > when the engine was running at maximum speed. The Honda AN360 did that. The starter/alternator was monted on the end of the crankshaft, and the starter was virtually silent. For the U.S. models (AN600 1970-1972), they increased the engine displacement to 600cc (in order to bring it up to 36HP), and, while keeping the alternator on the end of the crankshaft, switched to a "conventional" type of starter motor. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 13 18:31:58 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:17 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <3D092612.ED0E3DAF@jetnet.ab.ca> from "Ben Franchuk" at Jun 13, 2 05:09:06 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1138 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020614/c5dac362/attachment.ksh From geoffr at zipcon.net Thu Jun 13 18:50:53 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:17 2005 Subject: Network card for LaserJet In-Reply-To: <3D0924B8.D5E7B845@eoni.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020613165039.023d1ec0@mail.zipcon.net> it's not ethernet, it's 4 serial ports At 04:03 PM 6/13/02 -0700, you wrote: >It's 8 years old, so it's off-topic but I would like some info befor I >plug it in... > >Printer: QMS PS-1700 >Card: Extended Systems ESI 2041 Share Spool > >It appears to be an ethernet card for the printer (4 RJ-45 connectors) >Anyone have experience with them? > >Jim From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Jun 13 18:38:36 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:17 2005 Subject: Mac Color Classic II Message-ID: I was wondering... it it capable of 'talking' since it has a 68030 and built-in speaker? I just installed MacOS 7.5.3 onto it and haven't seen anything related to speech, and the 'Speak' options in SimpleText are greyed out. Is there something else I need to do to get it to work? [Yes, I'm going to update to MacOS 7.5.5.] Thanks -- Pat From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Jun 13 18:43:33 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:17 2005 Subject: Mac Classic II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dammit, that should be a Mac Classic II... no color. Sorry, folks. On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > I was wondering... it it capable of 'talking' since it has a 68030 and > built-in speaker? I just installed MacOS 7.5.3 onto it and haven't seen > anything related to speech, and the 'Speak' options in SimpleText are > greyed out. Is there something else I need to do to get it to work? [Yes, > I'm going to update to MacOS 7.5.5.] > > Thanks > > -- Pat > From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jun 13 18:54:23 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:17 2005 Subject: Atari 1040ST; Was Re: VERY good weekend In-Reply-To: <20020613225842.GJ18314@gxis.de> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, Alexander Bochmann wrote: > Hi, > > ...on Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 12:25:12AM -0500, Doc wrote: > > > Are the DMA-SCSI adapters unobtainium? Sounds useful. > > Best Electronics has two or three different types > (as well as almost anything else Atari). Yes, I found it this afternoon. However, I think I'll forego that expense. If I had a model that was otherwise more upgradeable - 2-chip ROM, RAM expansion, etc, that $75 would make sense. I fully expect the principle of mutual attraction to come into play, though. Now that I've paid for one, many more will follow for free. One thing I will surely watch for, even if I just have the ST, is an external floppy drive. The thing is crippled with only one. :^) Doc From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jun 13 18:58:23 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:17 2005 Subject: Mac Color Classic II In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I was wondering... it it capable of 'talking' since it has a 68030 and >built-in speaker? I just installed MacOS 7.5.3 onto it and haven't seen >anything related to speech, and the 'Speak' options in SimpleText are >greyed out. Is there something else I need to do to get it to work? [Yes, >I'm going to update to MacOS 7.5.5.] Where did you find a Color Classic II?? It's got the 33mhz '030 in it? Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jrasite at eoni.com Thu Jun 13 19:03:54 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:17 2005 Subject: Network card for LaserJet References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020613165039.023d1ec0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <3D0932CA.B8E499C0@eoni.com> Thanks. Never seen Serial RJ-45 ports before Jim From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jun 13 19:07:57 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:17 2005 Subject: Atari 1040ST; Was Re: VERY good weekend In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Yes, I found it this afternoon. However, I think I'll forego that >expense. If I had a model that was otherwise more upgradeable - 2-chip >ROM, RAM expansion, etc, that $75 would make sense. > I fully expect the principle of mutual attraction to come into play, >though. Now that I've paid for one, many more will follow for free. > One thing I will surely watch for, even if I just have the ST, is an >external floppy drive. The thing is crippled with only one. :^) About 10 years ago I had one of the Supra floptical drives, for the ST, that held 10MB or so on a 5-1/4" disk and I traded it off for an external floppy for my Mega. Unfortunately I never received the external floppy and I wish I had kept the floptical as I've never seen another one. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mythtech at mac.com Thu Jun 13 19:10:39 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:17 2005 Subject: Mac Color Classic II Message-ID: >I was wondering... it it capable of 'talking' since it has a 68030 and >built-in speaker? I just installed MacOS 7.5.3 onto it and haven't seen >anything related to speech, and the 'Speak' options in SimpleText are >greyed out. Is there something else I need to do to get it to work? [Yes, >I'm going to update to MacOS 7.5.5.] Yes, it can talk. Actually, the 128k Mac can talk with the right version of MacInTalk (anyone remember the Talking Moose). You need to make sure MacInTalk is installed. I don't think it was a default part of 7.5, so you may have to do a custom install to get it. If MacInTalk is installed, and you still can't talk, let me know, I'll throw 7.5 on a Classic II and see what's up. -chris From jrasite at eoni.com Thu Jun 13 19:33:13 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:17 2005 Subject: Mac Color Classic II References: Message-ID: <3D0939A8.F6D475DE@eoni.com> Uli's Moose is alive and talking (still!) Chris wrote: > > Yes, it can talk. Actually, the 128k Mac can talk with the right version > of MacInTalk (anyone remember the Talking Moose). > From dittman at dittman.net Thu Jun 13 19:39:24 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:17 2005 Subject: Non-DEC SCSI tape drives with VMS In-Reply-To: <000301c21311$d75a8240$023ca8c0@blafleur> from "Bob Lafleur" at Jun 13, 2002 03:38:06 PM Message-ID: <200206140039.g5E0dOo20196@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Has anyone successfully used non-DEC SCSI tape (cartridge) drives with > VMS? If so, what types have you been successful with? Travan? DAT? 8mm? > Which models? I've been successful with non-DEC DAT, 8mm, and DLT drives. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Jun 13 19:55:28 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:17 2005 Subject: Mac Color Classic II In-Reply-To: <3D0939A8.F6D475DE@eoni.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Jim Arnott wrote: > Uli's Moose is alive and talking (still!) > > > > Chris wrote: > > > > Yes, it can talk. Actually, the 128k Mac can talk with the right version > > of MacInTalk (anyone remember the Talking Moose). More than ten years ago, I was doing a sound job on a movie at one of the first (mostly) digital post-production facilities in Southern California. The mixing console was a new million-dollar Harrison, there were three Synclaviers in-house and networked, and Mac computers were everywhere. In a recording room like this, the mixing console (for T. Duell: audio blending desk... ;} ) is somewhat more than halfway back from the screen and speakers, and the clients sit at another big desk, usually a foot or so above and a few feet behind where the mixing staff are working. The front of this big desk (which is directly behind the mixers) contains the patch bays and outboard gear. Thus everyone can see the screen and hear the unobstructed sound. On this particular desk, for the benefit of the clients (to keep them occupied and out of the mixer's hair) was a Mac SE running (among other amusements) a copy of MacPlaymate, and early soft-core 'porn' game. One of it's attributes was, that as long as the program was launched, it would grab the speaker and purr lascivious nothings at random intervals. We came to the end of a rather complicated mixing sequence, stopped, and the Lead Mixer turned around to the clients and asked "Well, how was that?" Before anyone could respond, the SE, in a breathy bedroom voice, goes "...oooOOOhhhh eeeYYeessss!! YESSS!!!!" We had to break early for lunch, because, after the first ten minutes of hysteria died down, folks kept answering "Oooh, Yesss.." to every question, and then another five minutes of helpless laughter would ensue. from the 'Macs can do more than just talk' file... Cheers John From allain at panix.com Thu Jun 13 20:24:54 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:17 2005 Subject: IBM Current (c)1990 References: Message-ID: <001201c21342$4a4377a0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Said book will be going into the trash if there are no takers. Current was a PIM program from the period. John A. From mythtech at mac.com Thu Jun 13 20:39:03 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:17 2005 Subject: Mac Color Classic II Message-ID: > On this particular desk, for the benefit of the clients (to keep them >occupied and out of the mixer's hair) was a Mac SE running (among other >amusements) a copy of MacPlaymate, and early soft-core 'porn' game. One >of it's attributes was, that as long as the program was launched, it would >grab the speaker and purr lascivious nothings at random intervals. My copy doesn't make noise :-( I guess maybe I'm just not treating her right. Although this does remind me of one of the MANY occasions I got in trouble in high school. I was in a "Computer Music" class, and we were using Mac SEs. Since my lab partner and I were way ahead of the rest of the class (he was a die hard musician, and I knew the Mac and MIDI like the back of my hand), I brought my MacRecorder into class, we hooked it up, and started recording our own samples for our compositions. Well, one of them "accidentally" got left as the alert sound on the Mac. It was a nice clear mix of my partner and my voices going "PENIS.... Wheeeee" (hey, I was in High School, immaturity was in) The Band instructor was in that afternoon trying to use a Mac to write a letter of recommendation for a student... whose parents were there with them. Since he knew almost nothing about computers, he was making quite a few mistakes... with each one getting a solid "PENIS... Wheee" sound. Needless to say, when we showed up for class the next day, we just about had our heads bit off by the Band instructor... and it was all we could do from laughing our asses off at him as he was relaying the events to us in that ever so parental "I'm very pissed off" tone. -chris From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Thu Jun 13 20:39:05 2002 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:17 2005 Subject: IBM Current (c)1990 In-Reply-To: <001201c21342$4a4377a0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020613213826.00a1bec0@pop-server> At 09:24 PM 6/13/02 -0400, you wrote: >Said book will be going into the trash if there are no takers. >Current was a PIM program from the period. > >John A. How much with media mail shipping? Do you take PayPal? P.O. Box 3365 Spring Hill Florida 34611-3365 From at258 at osfn.org Thu Jun 13 20:50:40 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:17 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Most diesel electrics are started from the dynamo. Some connections are switched and the engine is excited. On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 01:55:45AM +0100: > > [quoting ?] > > > > The only time I've seen this is on the Ford type starter where > > > > the pull in for the gear comes from a pole piece in the started > > > > > > Pre-Engaged starter motors (that's to say, ones where the solenoid moves > > > the pinion into mesh before turning on the motor, as opposed to some > > > device that moves the pinion into mesh when the motor turns, like the old > > > 'Bendix' drive or the ones where the armature moves along the body of the > > > > ['old' Bendix drive? :-)] > > Well, OK, this _is_ classiccmp were people like old (and solid) designs > :-). > > At one time (1940s?) there was an idea in the UK to used a single machine > as both the starter motor and dynamo (DC generator). It was generally > chain-driven from the crankshaft, and I think it had separate > windings for the 2 functions. The problem was finding a gear ratio > between the machine and the engine that (a) let the engine turn fast > enough to start and (b) didn't cause the electrical machine to fly apart > when the engine was running at maximum speed. > > > > > As far as I know, Ford starters use a separate starter solenoid, > > mounted above the inner fender, above the passenger-side front tire, > > about a foot or so away from the battery. The starters themselves use > > a Bendix spring to engage the starter. A common failure, causing many > > mechanics to sell people new batteries, new starters, new voltage > > regulators, new solenoids, etc. is when the screws holding the > > solenoid to the frame become a little too loose, or if there's some > > oxidation/rust there causing a bad connection to the frame. Also, it > > Now you mention it, I cured just that fault on a UK-built Mini not too > long ago. An idiot garage [1] had fitted the wrong battery which meant > the leads weren't long enough. They'd 'cured' this by bolting the > (separate) starter solenoid to the frame with one screw only. It had come > loose, the starter didn't operate. Of course I fixed it properly.... > > [1] Is there any other kind? In the UK most garage mechanics make > computer field servoids look clueful. I knew there was a reason why we do > all our own servicing and repairs :-) > > > helps to use a piece of high temperature hose, or asbestos tubing, > > around the cable leading from the solenoid to the starter; this > > prevents the passenger-side exhause manifold, or headers, from melting > > the insulation on the cable... when that happens, some mechanics try > > to sell people new batteries, starters, etc. rather than just > > Like field servoids, garage mechanics like swapping out parts without > bothering to do tests to find out what the real problem is. > > > replacing, or better insulating, the cable. > > > > Disclaimer: as to those newfangled Fords made after the 1970s, I've no > > idea what sort of peculiar things go on under their hoods (bonnets), > > and I don't really want to know, but I hear that some don't even use > > spark plugs, distributors or carburators. All of the new (post 1970s) > > This is true. But some pre-1970 cars don't either (Diesel engines were in > use before 1970 :-)). Of course many modern cars have far too many > electronic computers in them (the correct number, of course, is zero). > > > motorcars are too strange for my tastes; weird machines, extremely > > There is nothing wrong with weird machines. I happen to like the Citroen > DS, which is certainly _strange_. The 6V models (1959 version if I > remember the shop manual correctly) don't even have an HT distributor.... > There is a lot wrong with 'solving' problems by adding unnecessary > complexity. > > > weird and overly complex, and cheaply built, machines with expensive > > price tags. > > > > Have engineers forgotten how to design things that work properly while > > not being overly complex? It appears that needlessly complex gadgetry > > has replaced functionality. > > I believe that I.K. Brunell once said 'Any third-rate engineer can make a > complicated device even more complicated. It takes a genius to go back to > first principles'. From what I can see, there are a lot of 3rd-rate > engineers out there at the moment. > > -tony > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Thu Jun 13 22:04:10 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:17 2005 Subject: 88000 machines In-Reply-To: References: <20020613061027.32678.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020613230410.0103d2e4@pop1.epm.net.co> At 08:15 PM 6/13/02 +0100, you wrote: >> > All the single-chip HP calculator CPUs (ACT, NUT, Saturn, etc). >> > MIPS R2000, R3000 >> > SPARC >> > Alpha >> > Microcontrollers (8048, 8051, PIC, ...) >I didn't say I had all of those. In particular I am missing the SPARC, >the Alpha amd the R3000 at least. Sparc: I'd recommend a Sparcstation IPX; small, and can be run from a serial console. Cheap or free; it maxes at 64MB RAM. You can run Linux on it. I have two running Solaris 2.6 . >> and most of the HP calculator (and one of the MIPS - I have a > >I started seriously collecting (and using) HP handhelds when I ran out of >space for 19" racks :-). Never had much particularly bulky stuff; I had to leave the hp 9000/370, 9000/433s, their monitors (about 200lb total), the uVaxII and other stuff behind when I left the U.S. I kept the hp 9000/380, though, and it is up as nazas.autonoma.edu.co . > It was then that I discovered that although an >HP41 will fit in my pocket, the disk drive, Thinkjet printer, tape drive, >data logger, RS232 inteface, video interface, HPIB interface, etc take up >a fairly large bench :-) The HP3421 is even bigger. >> DECstation that has a MIPS processor, R3000 IIRC). The rest > >I have most of an R2000-based machine. A Whitechapel Hitec 10 IIRC. >Probably enough to get it going again, but I have no hardware information >at all on it (not even a pinout of the R2000 chip) so it's going to be a >very long-term project... Hmmm... I'd recommend a Decstation 2000 for the R2000. Though I am not sure about the status of free OS's for it... I am not sure if netBSD supports it... there was something odd about the way it handles pages. But I remember using a 12MHz model with a mono framebuffer; Ultrix; interesting for its time. It made a good ftp server until about three years ago, when we decommissioned it. I think Linc Fessenden ended up with it. Are you still there, Linc? carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 13 22:59:19 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:18 2005 Subject: PET and Magic Sac+ Message-ID: I found two interesting items today. One is a PET 2001-8. It has the regular keyboard. Inside was an "expandaram" board that added additional RAM and some peripheral slots for the PET. The cards plugged in looked a lot like Apple ][ cards in their form factor but I assume this is some proprietary bus. Anyone have info on this? Also, found a little module that apparently plugs somewhere into an Atari ST. It's called the Magic Sac+ and on it it says "Turns your Atari into a Mac". Anyone ever use one of these? Where on the ST would this plug in to? Or is it for the Mega ST perhaps? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From univac2 at earthlink.net Thu Jun 13 23:01:07 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:18 2005 Subject: Mac Color Classic II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 6/13/02 8:39 PM, Chris at mythtech@mac.com wrote: > Well, one of them "accidentally" got left as the alert sound on the Mac. > It was a nice clear mix of my partner and my voices going "PENIS.... > Wheeeee" (hey, I was in High School, immaturity was in) > > The Band instructor was in that afternoon trying to use a Mac to write a > letter of recommendation for a student... whose parents were there with > them. Since he knew almost nothing about computers, he was making quite a > few mistakes... with each one getting a solid "PENIS... Wheee" sound. Hehe. Reminds me of how I taught some distant cousin of mine a little bit of AppleScript when he got his first Mac. It is very easy to get the Mac to speak with AppleScript, and so that was one of the first things I taught him to do. Well, I wasn't aware that they used Macs at his high school. Well, he wrote a little script that said something similar to your alert sound, although various slang terms were substituted. He also managed to distribute it to several systems on the network. So I guess there were a lot of surprised people that day. Looking back, it's probably a *good* thing that I forgot my copy of ResEdit... -- Owen Robertson From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Thu Jun 13 23:05:54 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:18 2005 Subject: PET and Magic Sac+ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005401c21358$c7e33040$023ca8c0@blafleur> >One is a PET 2001-8. It has the regular keyboard. Inside was an "expandaram" board that added additional RAM and some peripheral slots for the PET. The cards plugged in looked a lot like Apple ][ cards in their form factor but I assume this is some proprietary bus. Anyone have info on this? I have one of these ExpandaRam board in my Pet 2001. I have a 5.25" disk drive that plugs into one slot, and a ROM card that contains the disk O/S that plugs into the other slot. I don't know if they made any other peripherals that plugged into those spots. The disk drive unit has 2 5.25" drives in it. They were not compatible with the Commodore drives. If you're interested, I can dig mine out and post a photo. - Bob From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jun 13 23:08:48 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:18 2005 Subject: PET and Magic Sac+ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Also, found a little module that apparently plugs somewhere into an Atari > ST. It's called the Magic Sac+ and on it it says "Turns your Atari into a > Mac". Anyone ever use one of these? Where on the ST would this plug in > to? Or is it for the Mega ST perhaps? I want it! My ST has a cartridge interface at the left side, facing the kbd. IIRC, it's a card-edge connection about 1 3/4 inches wide. Doc From sloboyko at yahoo.com Thu Jun 13 23:11:04 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:18 2005 Subject: IMSAI News? In-Reply-To: <20020612145716.B721@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: <20020614041104.99745.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com> Today, I noticed a link on Slashdot about the IMSAI Series Two at www.imsai.net. Shipping in July. It LOOKS real, but there are mostly drawings and not pictures. Uses a Z80 successor CPU. Switching power supply, though. $995. Still the beautiful front panel that was as good as most mini's. Frankly, I find this price hard to believe - too low, given the super quality of the original machine and the volume this might be made in. Does even discussing this violate the 10 year rule? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Jun 13 23:11:42 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:18 2005 Subject: Mac Color Classic II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Chris wrote: > >I was wondering... it it capable of 'talking' since it has a 68030 and > >built-in speaker? I just installed MacOS 7.5.3 onto it and haven't seen > >anything related to speech, and the 'Speak' options in SimpleText are > >greyed out. Is there something else I need to do to get it to work? [Yes, > >I'm going to update to MacOS 7.5.5.] > > Yes, it can talk. Actually, the 128k Mac can talk with the right version > of MacInTalk (anyone remember the Talking Moose). Neat. > You need to make sure MacInTalk is installed. I don't think it was a > default part of 7.5, so you may have to do a custom install to get it. I did a custom install, but don't remember seeing it. Where is it/can I download a copy to install from Apple's downloads site or something? > If MacInTalk is installed, and you still can't talk, let me know, I'll > throw 7.5 on a Classic II and see what's up. Thanks -- Pat From curt at atari-history.com Thu Jun 13 23:24:38 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:18 2005 Subject: PET and Magic Sac+ References: Message-ID: <006401c2135b$65e344e0$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Hi Sellam.... MagicSAC was designed by a guy named David Small... you plug original Mac ROM's into the module and it plugs into the cartridge port on any Atari ST system and runs Mac software perfectly.... it was a great emulation system. Interesting story.... David was pulling ROM's out of the dumpsters at Apple and reselling them, Apple got wind of this and sued David and stopped throwing the ROM's away and started to sell them to resellers. The suit was dropped and MagicSac continued on into the early 90s Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 11:59 PM Subject: PET and Magic Sac+ > > I found two interesting items today. > > One is a PET 2001-8. It has the regular keyboard. Inside was an > "expandaram" board that added additional RAM and some peripheral slots for > the PET. The cards plugged in looked a lot like Apple ][ cards in their > form factor but I assume this is some proprietary bus. Anyone have info > on this? > > Also, found a little module that apparently plugs somewhere into an Atari > ST. It's called the Magic Sac+ and on it it says "Turns your Atari into a > Mac". Anyone ever use one of these? Where on the ST would this plug in > to? Or is it for the Mega ST perhaps? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jun 13 23:27:48 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:18 2005 Subject: IMSAI News? In-Reply-To: from "Loboyko Steve" at Jun 13, 2002 09:11:04 PM Message-ID: <200206140427.g5E4Rmi06928@shell1.aracnet.com> > Today, I noticed a link on Slashdot about the IMSAI > Series Two at www.imsai.net. Shipping in July. It > LOOKS real, but there are mostly drawings and not > pictures. Uses a Z80 successor CPU. Switching power > supply, though. $995. Still the beautiful front panel > that was as good as most mini's. Frankly, I find this > price hard to believe - too low, given the super > quality of the original machine and the volume this > might be made in. I was looking at the site myself earlier. Most of the cost looks to be from the front panel, and aparently that $995 gets you a pretty bare bones system. I think the disk controller and stuff is extra. Any idea how legit they are? I'm tempted to order the metal piece I needfor the front so I can convert my rack mount case to a tabletop. > Does even discussing this violate the 10 year rule? Not if the "so cool it's already classic" rule is still in effect :^) Sort of like a BeBox is more or less ontopic or NeXT HW was a few years ago :^) Zane From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jun 13 23:57:04 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:18 2005 Subject: IMSAI News? References: <200206140427.g5E4Rmi06928@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3D0977A0.A762A529@jetnet.ab.ca> "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > > Today, I noticed a link on Slashdot about the IMSAI > > Series Two at www.imsai.net. Shipping in July. It > > LOOKS real, but there are mostly drawings and not > > pictures. Uses a Z80 successor CPU. Switching power > > supply, though. $995. Still the beautiful front panel > > that was as good as most mini's. Frankly, I find this > > price hard to believe - too low, given the super > > quality of the original machine and the volume this > > might be made in. > > I was looking at the site myself earlier. Most of the cost looks to be from > the front panel, and aparently that $995 gets you a pretty bare bones > system. I think the disk controller and stuff is extra. > > Any idea how legit they are? I'm tempted to order the metal piece I needfor > the front so I can convert my rack mount case to a tabletop. > They have been up for about 2 years on the same web site if I remember right. Even if the NEW cpu is classic they sell some repacement parts for the original IMSAI. BTW I remember a old AD for adding a MEG of memory for your 8080 - S100 computer. Did any software ever make use of it? -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Fri Jun 14 00:22:28 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:18 2005 Subject: A VAX 6610 is rolling toward my garage ... References: <20020613154140.20633.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D097D94.505@aurora.regenstrief.org> Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Gunther Schadow wrote: > >>Hehe, there goes the last VAX out of my workplace, and right into >>my garage... > > Been there, done that, but it was all 11/7xx machines. :-) (well... > that plus some bitty Qbus ones and the one 8200) Still have those? It's fun isn't it, my 11/780 is a very nice decoration to the garage :-) >>Also, there are the XMI and VAXBI backplanes (with some defect, >>but certainly not everything on both of them) free for the taking. >>They aren't claimed yet and that means I will decompose those >>shortly. >> > > Does this mean that you might have some BI peripherals shaking loose? I do have a stock of spare cards. Not too much interesting stuff though. > You won't have one, but what I'm really looking for at the moment > is a 16MB VAXBI memory card or two - between a wad of 4MB and 2MB cards, sorry, no memory, I never had a pure VAXBI machine. > basic peripherals (KDB50, COMBOARD-BI, DEBNT, 2nd CPU (if I run my 8200 > as an 8300), DMB32), I bought a few superflous DEBNx cards. The funny thing is they say DEBNT on the outside but when I run them the SHOW CONFIG says "DEBNI". I don't know who's lying. > I'm out of BI slots. Hmm, isn't there something like a VAXBI bus extender? In that case you might have use for my VAXBI double backplane? > So... while I'm sure you don't have one, I intend to get one eventually, > leaving room for interesting BI peripherals, should any show up. I > know that BI SCSI cards were made, but at $8K-$10 a pop, they didn't > sell like hot cakes. Love to locate one, though. Ah the SCSI stuff. Yea, I have given up on that. SDI disks are a lot more fun, frankly. But I do have an MTI StingRay storage rack that has a CI controller and loads of SCSI drives. I just need to learn how to use it. -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From msell at ontimesupport.com Thu Jun 13 23:03:22 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:18 2005 Subject: Mounting tapes on VMS *AAARRRRRRGGGHHHHHH* Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020613225726.034e3438@127.0.0.1> erf. I've done just about everything I can think of to mount TK50 tapes on my MicroVax (and also on my TK70 on the 4000), and I keep getting the "%MOUNT-I_OPRQST, Please mount device" error. I've tried mounting the tapes with "/FOREIGN" as well - no luck. If I try mounting the tapes with the "/NOASSIST" option - I get the "%MOUNT-F-VOLINV, volume is not software enabled" error. I'm running VMS 6.1. Any ideas? I've tried a half-dozen tapes on both drives with no luck. In fact, there is no tape drive activity at all when the mount command is given. I have been trying to "allocate" the drives beforehand, with no luck in mounting. AGH! Am I doing something dumb? I've been searching the 'NET and "Googling" this problem to death - but I've been following all of the examples. Any ideas? Thanks! - Matt Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020613/99736a72/attachment.html From dave at naffnet.org.uk Fri Jun 14 01:13:09 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:18 2005 Subject: Mounting tapes on VMS *AAARRRRRRGGGHHHHHH* References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020613225726.034e3438@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <3D098974.11CEAFF5@naffnet.org.uk> Matthew Sell wrote: > > erf. > > > I've done just about everything I can think of to mount TK50 tapes on > my MicroVax (and also on my TK70 on the 4000), and I keep getting the > "%MOUNT-I_OPRQST, Please mount device" error. > > I've tried mounting the tapes with "/FOREIGN" as well - no luck. > > If I try mounting the tapes with the "/NOASSIST" option - I get the > "%MOUNT-F-VOLINV, volume is not software enabled" error. > > I'm running VMS 6.1. > > Any ideas? I've tried a half-dozen tapes on both drives with no luck. > In fact, there is no tape drive activity at all when the mount command > is given. I have been trying to "allocate" the drives beforehand, with > no luck in mounting. > > AGH! Am I doing something dumb? I've been searching the 'NET and > "Googling" this problem to death - but I've been following all of the > examples. > > Any ideas? > > Thanks! > > > - Matt If these are, or are intended to be blank tapes, perhaps a quick 'INITIALIZE' might help. Otherwise, a 'ANALYZE /ERROR' would seem to be in order. Cheers, Dave. From geoffr at zipcon.net Fri Jun 14 01:44:47 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:18 2005 Subject: Network card for LaserJet In-Reply-To: <3D0932CA.B8E499C0@eoni.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020613165039.023d1ec0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020613234423.043a89a0@mail.zipcon.net> No problem, I have one of those around here with a resistor network pack that's cracked..... At 05:03 PM 6/13/02 -0700, you wrote: >Thanks. > >Never seen Serial RJ-45 ports before > >Jim From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Jun 14 01:46:19 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:18 2005 Subject: Cosmac References: <006401c2135b$65e344e0$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <00bd01c2136f$30cbdec0$d02dcd18@wayne052602> Anyone have any idea what this is or what it does? http://home.earthlink.net/~wmsmith/_uimages/Cosmac.jpg From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Fri Jun 14 03:48:53 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:18 2005 Subject: Mounting tapes on VMS *AAARRRRRRGGGHHHHHH* Message-ID: >I've done just about everything I can think of to mount TK50 tapes on my MicroVax (and also >on my TK70 on the 4000), and I keep getting the "%MOUNT-I_OPRQST, Please mount >device" error. > > > >If I try mounting the tapes with the "/NOASSIST" option - I get the "%MOUNT-F-VOLINV, >volume is not software enabled" error. > /NOASSIST is what you want. Otherwise it is asking an operator (human being) to go off and put the tape in the appropriate device and let the system know when it is in there. You could have done this and then issued the appropriate REPLY command, but on the whole /NOASSIST is much easier. > > I get VOLINV when (from memory) either the tape is not in properly (are the appropriate lights lit?) or I have an unlabelled, unitialised tape. Try $MOUNT/FOREIGN/NOASSIST device: and see what it thinks the volume label is. If you have a scratch tape, you could try: $ INIT device: MY_LABEL $ MOUNT/NOASSIST device: MY_LABEL and see what happens. Make sure it really is a scratch tape though, otherwise the data that was on it will be permanently lost. Antonio From coredump at gifford.co.uk Fri Jun 14 05:47:51 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:18 2005 Subject: PET and Magic Sac+ References: Message-ID: <3D09C9D7.E8953FE6@gifford.co.uk> Sellam Ismail wrote: > Also, found a little module that apparently plugs somewhere into an Atari > ST. It's called the Magic Sac+ and on it it says "Turns your Atari into a > Mac". Anyone ever use one of these? Where on the ST would this plug in > to? It goes in the Atari's cartridge port, a little-used connector on the side of the machine. Used an unusual type of edge connector, and hardly any software was supplied on cartridges. Some sound samplers used it, though. I think the signals available were read-only, fine for ROMs, but preventing the use of the slot for most types of peripherals. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Jun 14 07:23:43 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:18 2005 Subject: PET and Magic Sac+ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020614072034.0577dd38@pc> At 08:59 PM 6/13/2002 -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: >Also, found a little module that apparently plugs somewhere into an Atari >ST. It's called the Magic Sac+ and on it it says "Turns your Atari into a >Mac". Anyone ever use one of these? Where on the ST would this plug in >to? Or is it for the Mega ST perhaps? And Dave Small did a version for the Amiga, too, I seem to remember his exhibiting at an Amiga conference back when. I think had or have a Mac emulator for the Amiga based on a Mac ROM, but I don't think it was Small's. I had the one that also let you plug in a Mac-compatible floppy. - John From emu at ecubics.com Fri Jun 14 07:37:05 2002 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:19 2005 Subject: No IMSAI on ebay References: <009301c21296$3de18760$d02dcd18@wayne052602> <003401b26184$60a79f00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3D09E371.C299C78C@ecubics.com> Richard Erlacher wrote on june 13, 1988: > > That's particulary so when one considers that most S-100 hardware was really > not Imsai-comaptible due to timing problems. Talking about timing, you email was sent 14 years ago ;-) From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Jun 14 08:01:30 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:19 2005 Subject: No IMSAI on ebay In-Reply-To: <004401b261d3$3658aec0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 14, 88 06:59:26 am Message-ID: <200206141301.JAA25264@wordstock.com> And thusly Richard Erlacher spake: > > Yeah ... my computer is apparently so fast that it's outrunning time again ... > ... now if I could just get the stock market quotations for tomorrow > ... > > Actually, the motherboard I put in the temporary Netware 3.11 server I'm using > is not y2K-compliant, nor is the OS, so it has to be reminded from time to > time what year this is. You notice it doesn't know what day it is either ... > How are the messages archived? Bryan From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jun 14 08:04:04 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:19 2005 Subject: PET and Magic Sac+ In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020614072034.0577dd38@pc> References: <5.0.0.25.0.20020614072034.0577dd38@pc> Message-ID: <02Jun14.090533edt.119139@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >And Dave Small did a version for the Amiga, too, I seem to >remember his exhibiting at an Amiga conference back when. >I think had or have a Mac emulator for the Amiga based >on a Mac ROM, but I don't think it was Small's. I had >the one that also let you plug in a Mac-compatible floppy. The main Mac emulation boards for the Amiga were the Amax and the Emplant, though the Emplant didn't support the use of the 400k/800k Mac disks or floppy drive. It did have Mac serial and SCSI ports though. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Jun 14 08:03:32 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:19 2005 Subject: Network card for LaserJet In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020613234423.043a89a0@mail.zipcon.net> References: <3D0932CA.B8E499C0@eoni.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020613165039.023d1ec0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020614080259.0576a540@pc> Serial? More like video-level signals driving the laser engine, I'd guess. - John At 11:44 PM 6/13/2002 -0700, you wrote: >No problem, I have one of those around here with a resistor network pack that's cracked..... > > >At 05:03 PM 6/13/02 -0700, you wrote: >>Thanks. >> >>Never seen Serial RJ-45 ports before >> >>Jim From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Jun 14 08:04:17 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:19 2005 Subject: Cosmac In-Reply-To: <00bd01c2136f$30cbdec0$d02dcd18@wayne052602> References: <006401c2135b$65e344e0$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020614080359.056d0098@pc> At 11:46 PM 6/13/2002 -0700, you wrote: >Anyone have any idea what this is or what it does? >http://home.earthlink.net/~wmsmith/_uimages/Cosmac.jpg A rack-mount development system for the RCA Cosmac 1802 CPU? Nice find. - John From stanb at dial.pipex.com Fri Jun 14 03:05:24 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:19 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 Jun 2002 19:57:17 BST." Message-ID: <200206140805.JAA07287@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) said: > > At one time (1940s?) there was an idea in the UK to used a single machine > as both the starter motor and dynamo (DC generator). There was also the Sibe Dynastarter combined starter/generator fitted to the NSU Prinz 600cc car among other small engines. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From stanb at dial.pipex.com Thu Jun 13 15:12:18 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:19 2005 Subject: VERY good weekend In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 Jun 2002 12:47:29 CDT." Message-ID: <200206132012.VAA04491@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Doc said: > On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > > On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Doc wrote: > > > > So, E6B is a type designation, right? Not a model name? I can't find > > > any info on the FDF-60, so I don't know if the "1975" has anything to do > > > with its age. Very cool little instrument, though. > > > > Well, 1975 would make it a fairly late model since they were commonly > > used during - and probably before - WWII. > > - don > > They're still being sold as part of pilot "student kits". As a matter > of fact, ASA sells one made of <> pasteboard. I have a similar thing by Jeppeson, used only with flight sim since ill- health killed my flying ambitions ;-( -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Fri Jun 14 08:52:38 2002 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:19 2005 Subject: New IBM system stores 25 times as much data as hard drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020614095211.00a15aa0@pop-server> At 08:33 AM 6/11/02 -0700, you wrote: >The technology is being compared to >punch cards. What does that mean? From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Fri Jun 14 09:30:00 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:19 2005 Subject: Network card for LaserJet Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A20@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Jim Arnott > > Thanks. > > Never seen Serial RJ-45 ports before > > Jim > F.Y.I. - My Cabletron MRXI hubs have RJ-45 sockets, for hooking up to a serial VT420 terminal... :) But, yes, I agree. Those hubs are the only time _I've_ seen RJ-45 used for serial communication. -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From pcw at mesanet.com Fri Jun 14 09:22:16 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:19 2005 Subject: 88000 machines In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020613230410.0103d2e4@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Carlos Murillo wrote: > At 08:15 PM 6/13/02 +0100, you wrote: > >> > All the single-chip HP calculator CPUs (ACT, NUT, Saturn, etc). > >> > MIPS R2000, R3000 > >> > SPARC > >> > Alpha > >> > Microcontrollers (8048, 8051, PIC, ...) > >I didn't say I had all of those. In particular I am missing the SPARC, > >the Alpha amd the R3000 at least. > > Sparc: > I'd recommend a Sparcstation IPX; small, and can be run from a serial > console. Cheap or free; it maxes at 64MB RAM. You can run Linux on it. > I have two running Solaris 2.6 . > > >> and most of the HP calculator (and one of the MIPS - I have a > > > >I started seriously collecting (and using) HP handhelds when I ran out of > >space for 19" racks :-). > > Never had much particularly bulky stuff; I had to leave the hp 9000/370, > 9000/433s, their monitors (about 200lb total), the uVaxII and other stuff > behind when I left the U.S. I kept the hp 9000/380, though, and it is > up as nazas.autonoma.edu.co . > > > It was then that I discovered that although an > >HP41 will fit in my pocket, the disk drive, Thinkjet printer, tape drive, > >data logger, RS232 inteface, video interface, HPIB interface, etc take up > >a fairly large bench :-) > > The HP3421 is even bigger. > > >> DECstation that has a MIPS processor, R3000 IIRC). The rest > > > >I have most of an R2000-based machine. A Whitechapel Hitec 10 IIRC. > >Probably enough to get it going again, but I have no hardware information > >at all on it (not even a pinout of the R2000 chip) so it's going to be a > >very long-term project... > > Hmmm... I'd recommend a Decstation 2000 for the R2000. Though I am not > sure about the status of free OS's for it... I am not sure if netBSD > supports it... there was something odd about the way it handles pages. > But I remember using a 12MHz model with a mono framebuffer; > Ultrix; interesting for its time. It made a good ftp server until about > three years ago, when we decommissioned it. I think Linc Fessenden > ended up with it. Are you still there, Linc? You probably mean a DECStation 2100 or 3100. Those are both R2000 based, only difference between 2100 and 3100 is that the 2100 runs at 12 MHZ and the 3100 at 16. NetBSD supports them quite well. Probably the fastest small workstation at the time they came out (1989). They look like, and use the same (or very similar) case, power supply, peripherals, as VS3100/30/38. > > carlos. > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org > > Peter Wallace From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Jun 14 09:27:38 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:19 2005 Subject: Network card for LaserJet Message-ID: I used to work at a law office that had an AT&T Starserver. It had two "concentrators" that each could attach to two 12 port (IIRC) serial "hubs". The serial lines went to terminals and printers, and used RJ-45's with TP wiring. Bob -----Original Message----- From: David Woyciesjes [mailto:DAW@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu] Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 9:30 AM To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: Network card for LaserJet > From: Jim Arnott > > Thanks. > > Never seen Serial RJ-45 ports before > > Jim > F.Y.I. - My Cabletron MRXI hubs have RJ-45 sockets, for hooking up to a serial VT420 terminal... :) But, yes, I agree. Those hubs are the only time _I've_ seen RJ-45 used for serial communication. -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 14 09:35:27 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:19 2005 Subject: VERY good weekend In-Reply-To: <20020613230835.GK18314@gxis.de> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, Alexander Bochmann wrote: > ...on Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 11:48:07PM -0500, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > > > > An Atari 1040ST with SC1224 display and mouse - works great, no > > > burn-in, floppy reads & formats perfectly. $5.98 > > I remember that one, an Amiga wannabe. Talk about a rare duck there . . > > *ouch* > > Well, the Atari ST was a major success in Europe, > so 1040STs are not exactly rare... It's a problem > to find one at that price, though... The Atari 1040ST is not rare here either by any means. Like everything, they don't come up as often as they used to a few years ago, but they do turn up, sometimes in droves. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Fri Jun 14 09:53:39 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:19 2005 Subject: Non-DEC SCSI tape drives with VMS In-Reply-To: <000301c21311$d75a8240$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020615005237.022b3658@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 03:38 PM 13/06/2002 -0400, Bob Lafleur wrote: >Has anyone successfully used non-DEC SCSI tape (cartridge) drives with >VMS? If so, what types have you been successful with? Travan? DAT? 8mm? >Which models? I've used Exabyte 8200 and 8500 8mm drives and HP DAT drives under VMS without issue. In the case of the 8200s it must be more than 10 years since I first used one. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Fri Jun 14 09:53:30 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:19 2005 Subject: Network card for LaserJet Message-ID: > F.Y.I. - My Cabletron MRXI hubs have RJ-45 sockets, for hooking up >to a serial VT420 terminal... :) > But, yes, I agree. Those hubs are the only time _I've_ seen RJ-45 >used for serial communication. Various terminal servers use RJ45 for serial comms. One of the selling points of CAT5 was that you wire your building once with CAT5 and then can use the same wires for voice and data. The data was usually either ethernet traffic or serial comms (for printers and such). The connectors were invariably (at least in my experince) RJ45 for both ethernet and serial (and ISDN too). Antonio From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 14 09:57:09 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:19 2005 Subject: PET and Magic Sac+ In-Reply-To: <005401c21358$c7e33040$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, Bob Lafleur wrote: > I have one of these ExpandaRam board in my Pet 2001. I have a 5.25" disk > drive that plugs into one slot, and a ROM card that contains the disk > O/S that plugs into the other slot. I don't know if they made any other > peripherals that plugged into those spots. Oh yes, I should have mentioned the peripherals plugged in. One was a disk contoller, and the computer also came with an external dual 5.25" disk drive box. One was a ROM card as you mentioned (now I know what that was for). And there was a third but I didn't pay enough attention to it. I'll double check next time I'm at my warehouse. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 14 09:59:05 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:19 2005 Subject: IMSAI News? In-Reply-To: <20020614041104.99745.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Loboyko Steve wrote: > Today, I noticed a link on Slashdot about the IMSAI Series Two at > www.imsai.net. Shipping in July. It LOOKS real, but there are mostly > drawings and not pictures. Uses a Z80 successor CPU. Switching power > supply, though. $995. Still the beautiful front panel that was as good > as most mini's. Frankly, I find this price hard to believe - too low, > given the super quality of the original machine and the volume this > might be made in. Todd Fischer, the guy who used to work at IMSAI, then bought their assets up when they went bankrupt and continued to support IMSAI hardware, and who is now the one who has designed and is selling the Series Two, is a good guy and this is a real offer. You should have no doubts about ordering a system from him. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Fri Jun 14 10:01:39 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:19 2005 Subject: Mounting tapes on VMS *AAARRRRRRGGGHHHHHH* In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020613225726.034e3438@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020615010017.022b3658@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 11:03 PM 13/06/2002 -0500, Matthew Sell wrote: >erf. > > >I've done just about everything I can think of to mount TK50 tapes on my >MicroVax (and also on my TK70 on the 4000), and I keep getting the >"%MOUNT-I_OPRQST, Please mount device" error. > >I've tried mounting the tapes with "/FOREIGN" as well - no luck. > >If I try mounting the tapes with the "/NOASSIST" option - I get the >"%MOUNT-F-VOLINV, volume is not software enabled" error. OK, what does $ show device MU*/full and $ show device MK*/full give? The second command is only required if your tape drives are attached via SCSI. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 14 10:01:38 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:19 2005 Subject: Cosmac In-Reply-To: <00bd01c2136f$30cbdec0$d02dcd18@wayne052602> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > Anyone have any idea what this is or what it does? > > http://home.earthlink.net/~wmsmith/_uimages/Cosmac.jpg Ooooooh! You've found the very rare rackmount version of the Cosmac development system. Score o' the Month by far. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 14 10:04:31 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:19 2005 Subject: New IBM system stores 25 times as much data as hard drives In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020614095211.00a15aa0@pop-server> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, Gene Ehrich wrote: > At 08:33 AM 6/11/02 -0700, you wrote: > >The technology is being compared to > >punch cards. > > What does that mean? Because it "punches holes in the substrate" just like with punch cards. Except you can fit millions of holes per square inch as opposed to about 7 or 8. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From allain at panix.com Fri Jun 14 10:08:30 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:20 2005 Subject: New IBM system stores 25 times as much data as hard drives References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020614095211.00a15aa0@pop-server> Message-ID: <002901c213b5$581e8a40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >>The technology is being compared to >>punch cards. >What does that mean? It's removable media storage using physical holes. Although these are reclosable. John A. From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 14 10:38:01 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:20 2005 Subject: No IMSAI on ebay References: <200206141301.JAA25264@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <001201c213b9$77d01bc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> What??? You mean the messages I receive? They're not archived on the server, but get flushed periodically from this Windows machine. It's just that each time I log in to the server, the Windows OS asks the server what the date and time are, and then resets its clock. Since I use several different OS' in the same box, swapping out the primary hard disk, it does this each time I swap OS' and therefore requires I remember to use NISTtime to reset the clock. Unfortunately, I've not yet figured out that I need to put NISTtime in the startup folder ... ... one of these days ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Pope" To: Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 7:01 AM Subject: Re: No IMSAI on ebay > And thusly Richard Erlacher spake: > > > > Yeah ... my computer is apparently so fast that it's outrunning time again ... > > ... now if I could just get the stock market quotations for tomorrow > > ... > > > > Actually, the motherboard I put in the temporary Netware 3.11 server I'm using > > is not y2K-compliant, nor is the OS, so it has to be reminded from time to > > time what year this is. You notice it doesn't know what day it is either ... > > > > How are the messages archived? > > Bryan > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 14 10:39:47 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:20 2005 Subject: IMSAI News? References: Message-ID: <001e01c213b9$b7292640$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yes, but does anybody have one of his systems running? What is it running? How well/reliably does it work? How compatible with "real" S-100 hardware is it? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 8:59 AM Subject: Re: IMSAI News? > On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Loboyko Steve wrote: > > > Today, I noticed a link on Slashdot about the IMSAI Series Two at > > www.imsai.net. Shipping in July. It LOOKS real, but there are mostly > > drawings and not pictures. Uses a Z80 successor CPU. Switching power > > supply, though. $995. Still the beautiful front panel that was as good > > as most mini's. Frankly, I find this price hard to believe - too low, > > given the super quality of the original machine and the volume this > > might be made in. > > Todd Fischer, the guy who used to work at IMSAI, then bought their assets > up when they went bankrupt and continued to support IMSAI hardware, and > who is now the one who has designed and is selling the Series Two, is a > good guy and this is a real offer. > > You should have no doubts about ordering a system from him. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Jun 14 10:40:13 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:20 2005 Subject: No IMSAI on ebay In-Reply-To: <001201c213b9$77d01bc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 14, 02 09:38:01 am Message-ID: <200206141540.LAA06412@wordstock.com> And thusly Richard Erlacher spake: > > What??? You mean the messages I receive? > > They're not archived on the server, but get flushed periodically from this > Windows machine. It's just that each time I log in to the server, the Windows > OS asks the server what the date and time are, and then resets its clock. > Since I use several different OS' in the same box, swapping out the primary > hard disk, it does this each time I swap OS' and therefore requires I remember > to use NISTtime to reset the clock. Unfortunately, I've not yet figured out > that I need to put NISTtime in the startup folder ... ... one of these > days ... > I'm sorry - I meant the cctalk archives. Won't these messages be archived as if they were sent in 1988? Bryan From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Jun 14 10:52:11 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:20 2005 Subject: No IMSAI on ebay References: <009301c21296$3de18760$d02dcd18@wayne052602> <003401b26184$60a79f00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3D09E371.C299C78C@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <3D0A112B.5A9D20DF@jetnet.ab.ca> emanuel stiebler wrote: > > Richard Erlacher wrote on june 13, 1988: > > > > That's particulary so when one considers that most S-100 hardware was really > > not Imsai-comaptible due to timing problems. > > Talking about timing, you email was sent 14 years ago ;-) Just keeping things OLDER than 10 years. :) -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From curt at atari-history.com Fri Jun 14 11:07:46 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:20 2005 Subject: VERY good weekend References: Message-ID: <001201c213bd$9f900e00$0a00a8c0@cvendel> 1040ST's were some of the most widely built version of the ST's, they appear most often in swap meets and on Ebay and usually you can get a nice setup with monitor for anywhere from $20-$30 on Ebay. The 1040ST's also have a deeper case design and lots of room for the many expansions both commercial and homebrew that are available, several include the 1.44mb floppy upgrade, IDE hd, cpu upgrade and memory upgrade. There are also a few new homebrew upgrades like the ASCI to ISA bus that allows you to use standard NE2000 network cards and hook your ST up to the Internet, CAB 2.7 and another newer browsers are available and there are multiple email, realplayer compatible, PDF reader compatible, newsgroup utils available to totally equip your ST for Internet use. I would highly Papyrus word processor, it is excellent. Also look into using MiNT and the replacement desktops.... especially Jinnee which has a cross Mac/Win9x look and feel... Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 10:35 AM Subject: Re: VERY good weekend > On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, Alexander Bochmann wrote: > > > ...on Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 11:48:07PM -0500, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > > > > > > An Atari 1040ST with SC1224 display and mouse - works great, no > > > > burn-in, floppy reads & formats perfectly. $5.98 > > > I remember that one, an Amiga wannabe. Talk about a rare duck there . . > > > > *ouch* > > > > Well, the Atari ST was a major success in Europe, > > so 1040STs are not exactly rare... It's a problem > > to find one at that price, though... > > The Atari 1040ST is not rare here either by any means. Like everything, > they don't come up as often as they used to a few years ago, but they do > turn up, sometimes in droves. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > From curt at atari-history.com Fri Jun 14 11:12:50 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:20 2005 Subject: Network card for LaserJet References: Message-ID: <002001c213be$5528dad0$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Its quite common.... Nearly all of the Cisco equipment have RJ45 console ports on them, even Radio shack sells DB25/RJ45 hook kits for making connectors. I just recently picked up a Synoptics 28115 switch for my in-home network (I wanted one as it was the first switch I had ever installed back in 1994) and it too has a standard RJ45 console port on it. The great thing about the console ports on most devices is that they use standard straight run CAT5 cables so you don't have to make up a custom one. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Antonio Carlini" To: Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 10:53 AM Subject: RE: Network card for LaserJet > > F.Y.I. - My Cabletron MRXI hubs have RJ-45 sockets, for hooking up > >to a serial VT420 terminal... :) > > But, yes, I agree. Those hubs are the only time _I've_ seen RJ-45 > >used for serial communication. > > Various terminal servers use RJ45 for serial > comms. One of the selling points of CAT5 was > that you wire your building once with CAT5 and > then can use the same wires for voice and data. > The data was usually either ethernet traffic > or serial comms (for printers and such). The > connectors were invariably (at least in my experince) > RJ45 for both ethernet and serial (and ISDN too). > > Antonio From curt at atari-history.com Fri Jun 14 11:16:29 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:20 2005 Subject: New IBM system stores 25 times as much data as hard drives References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020614095211.00a15aa0@pop-server> Message-ID: <002601c213be$d74a4d00$0a00a8c0@cvendel> From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Jun 14 11:20:52 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:20 2005 Subject: Network card for LaserJet In-Reply-To: <002001c213be$5528dad0$0a00a8c0@cvendel> References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020614111834.056e8d38@pc> At 12:12 PM 6/14/2002 -0400, Curt Vendel wrote: > Nearly all of the Cisco equipment have RJ45 console ports on them, even >Radio shack sells DB25/RJ45 hook kits for making connectors. > The great thing about the >console ports on most devices is that they use standard straight run CAT5 >cables so you don't have to make up a custom one. And if you're out junk hunting or raiding someone else's junk closet, you might find a pile of the 9-pin and 25-pin to RJ-45 adapters that Cisco includes when you buy a router with a console port. I hadn't thought about it that way, but is this a handy source of alternatives to long serial cables? If I use a cross-over cable, it is wired like a null modem? - John From thompson at new.rr.com Fri Jun 14 12:03:43 2002 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:20 2005 Subject: Non-DEC SCSI tape drives with VMS In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020615005237.022b3658@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Jun 2002, Huw Davies wrote: > I've used Exabyte 8200 and 8500 8mm drives and HP DAT drives under VMS > without issue. In the case of the 8200s it must be more than 10 years since > I first used one. There were some patches necessary for earlier versions of VMS to use the 8200 without problems. Check the HPQ patch site for SCSI patches for your version. From curt at atari-history.com Fri Jun 14 12:15:40 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:20 2005 Subject: Network card for LaserJet References: <5.0.0.25.0.20020614111834.056e8d38@pc> Message-ID: <004a01c213c7$1bed4770$0a00a8c0@cvendel> John.... Oh yeah, tons and tons of the DB9 to DB25 connectors using the flat silk type cablings (light blue and black) or standard RJ45.... I don't think the cross over cables for CAT5 would apply like a null-modem cable though, you'd need to check the wiring in the hoods.... the cross overs reverse cat5 like this: Straight Xover 1 Org/Wht Grn/Wht 2 Orange Green 3 Grn/Wht Org/Wht 4 Blue Blue 5 Blue/Wht Blue/Wht 6 Green Orange 7 Brown/Wht Brown/Wht 8 Brown Brown So in the x-over cable what you are doing is switching 1&2 for 3&6 and vice-versa Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Foust" To: Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 12:20 PM Subject: Re: Network card for LaserJet > At 12:12 PM 6/14/2002 -0400, Curt Vendel wrote: > > Nearly all of the Cisco equipment have RJ45 console ports on them, even > >Radio shack sells DB25/RJ45 hook kits for making connectors. > > The great thing about the > >console ports on most devices is that they use standard straight run CAT5 > >cables so you don't have to make up a custom one. > > And if you're out junk hunting or raiding someone else's junk > closet, you might find a pile of the 9-pin and 25-pin to RJ-45 > adapters that Cisco includes when you buy a router with a > console port. I hadn't thought about it that way, but is > this a handy source of alternatives to long serial cables? > If I use a cross-over cable, it is wired like a null modem? > > - John > From ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 14 12:40:19 2002 From: ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk (Greg Elkin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:20 2005 Subject: SimH on Win2K In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020525104129.00f26f14@pop1.epm.net.co> References: <3CEF0466.D45FFA44@compsys.to> Message-ID: <3D0A3893.20038.1D2CC844@localhost> Hallo, I've built SimH (v2.9-9, and just tried v2.9-10) using MinGW on my Win2K box, when I try to boot any attached disk devices (either CDROM images or my own RZ23 dumped disks etc) I get the same error (shown below). Any clues please? C:\Emuls\DEC>vax VAX simulator V2.9-10 sim> load -r ka655.bin sim> set rq0 ra92 sim> at rq0 netbsd.dsk RQ: creating new file sim> set rq1 cdrom sim> at rq1 NetBSD_VAX_v1_5_2.iso sim> b cpu ?[c KA655-B V5.3, VMB 2.7 Performing normal system tests. 40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32..31..30..29..28..27..26..25.. 24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16..15..14..13..12..11..10..09.. 08..07..06..05..04..03.. Tests completed. >>>b dq1 (BOOT/R5:0 DQ1) 2.. ?41 DEVASSIGN, DQ10 HALT instruction, PC: 00000C1A (MOVL (R11),SP) sim> thanks, greg From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Fri Jun 14 12:47:20 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:20 2005 Subject: SimH on Win2K In-Reply-To: <3D0A3893.20038.1D2CC844@localhost> Message-ID: <007901c213cb$88f14fc0$023ca8c0@blafleur> The deives in SIMH are RQ0, RQ1, etc. but the corresponding VAX devices are DUA0, DUA1, etc. So you need to B DUA1, not B DQ1. - Bob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Greg Elkin Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 1:40 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: SimH on Win2K Hallo, I've built SimH (v2.9-9, and just tried v2.9-10) using MinGW on my Win2K box, when I try to boot any attached disk devices (either CDROM images or my own RZ23 dumped disks etc) I get the same error (shown below). Any clues please? C:\Emuls\DEC>vax VAX simulator V2.9-10 sim> load -r ka655.bin sim> set rq0 ra92 sim> at rq0 netbsd.dsk RQ: creating new file sim> set rq1 cdrom sim> at rq1 NetBSD_VAX_v1_5_2.iso sim> b cpu ?[c KA655-B V5.3, VMB 2.7 Performing normal system tests. 40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32..31..30..29..28..27..26..25.. 24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16..15..14..13..12..11..10..09.. 08..07..06..05..04..03.. Tests completed. >>>b dq1 (BOOT/R5:0 DQ1) 2.. ?41 DEVASSIGN, DQ10 HALT instruction, PC: 00000C1A (MOVL (R11),SP) sim> thanks, greg From dogas at bellsouth.net Fri Jun 14 12:46:32 2002 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:20 2005 Subject: Cosmac References: <006401c2135b$65e344e0$0a00a8c0@cvendel> <00bd01c2136f$30cbdec0$d02dcd18@wayne052602> Message-ID: <001401c213cb$79c99ca0$5a19d7d1@DOMAIN> > From: Wayne M. Smith > Anyone have any idea what this is or what it does? > > http://home.earthlink.net/~wmsmith/_uimages/Cosmac.jpg > Cool! That looks like a CDS 1 or CDS II maybe. They use the COSMAC Microboard Universal Backplane and can nest a number of cool RCA cards (CPU, mem, i/o, disk, color video, etc..). Send some card numbers. I've got docs on lot of them here. Nice find. ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From mythtech at mac.com Fri Jun 14 12:57:37 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:20 2005 Subject: Mac Color Classic II Message-ID: >> Yes, it can talk. Actually, the 128k Mac can talk with the right version >> of MacInTalk (anyone remember the Talking Moose). > >Neat. I think the first real use of MacInTalk I ever saw (beyond Talking Moose, which was the first place I saw it at all, but I considered that a "show off the technology" app) was in the game Captain Magneto (which I never did solve, anyone know how to get the laser gun out of the room on the island?) >I did a custom install, but don't remember seeing it. Where is it/can I >download a copy to install from Apple's downloads site or something? It might have been an optional installer rather than being part of the main OS installer as a custom item. If you have a 7.5 CD, check some of the optional items on it. I would check my 7.5.5 CD, but I forgot it at home (and didn't bother checking last night like I should have) It should be listed as Text-To-Speech or PlainTalk, or you can download the PlainTalk 1.5 installers from Apple's web site. That includes the Text-To-Speech installer. You want to install MacInTalk 2 (there are 3 versions, 2, 3, and Pro. 2 is the one that will probably work best on a Classic II, but 3 might also work, you can try it. Pro is for 040's or PPCs) You can find a list of the older Apple software at: Click the link for System Software Downloads (or just scroll down about 2/3's of the page). Then in that list, scroll to the bottom of it. You will find a little ways up from the bottom of the list is "Macintosh/System/Speech/PlainTalk_1.5", the list is alphabetical. You will want the 5 "English_TTS" disks (unless you want to hear your Mac talk in spanish, in which case get the 3 "Mexican_TTS" disks as well. -chris From hansp at aconit.org Fri Jun 14 13:12:56 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:20 2005 Subject: New IBM system stores 25 times as much data as hard drives References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020614095211.00a15aa0@pop-server> <002601c213be$d74a4d00$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <3D0A3228.7020202@aconit.org> Curt Vendel wrote: > this is just a rough overview and not 100% accurate accounting of > the technology. But close enough for government work ;-) http://domino.research.ibm.com/Comm/bios.nsf/pages/millipede.html has a number of images with links to hi-res versions, also a couple of simulation videos and a preview of the paper to be published by the IEEE. All the gory details you would like and more. -- hbp From curt at atari-history.com Fri Jun 14 13:29:19 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:20 2005 Subject: SimH on Win2K References: <3CEF0466.D45FFA44@compsys.to> <3D0A3893.20038.1D2CC844@localhost> Message-ID: <007a01c213d1$664844a0$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Greg, Hey, that looks cool, where can I d/l a copy of the emulator? Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Elkin" To: Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 1:40 PM Subject: SimH on Win2K > Hallo, > I've built SimH (v2.9-9, and just tried v2.9-10) using MinGW on my Win2K box, > when I try to boot any attached disk devices (either CDROM images or my own > RZ23 dumped disks etc) I get the same error (shown below). Any clues please? > > C:\Emuls\DEC>vax > > VAX simulator V2.9-10 > sim> load -r ka655.bin > sim> set rq0 ra92 > sim> at rq0 netbsd.dsk > RQ: creating new file > sim> set rq1 cdrom > sim> at rq1 NetBSD_VAX_v1_5_2.iso > sim> b cpu > > ?[c > KA655-B V5.3, VMB 2.7 > Performing normal system tests. > 40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32..31..30..29..28..27..26..25.. > 24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16..15..14..13..12..11..10..09.. > 08..07..06..05..04..03.. > Tests completed. > >>>b dq1 > (BOOT/R5:0 DQ1) > > > > 2.. > ?41 DEVASSIGN, DQ10 > HALT instruction, PC: 00000C1A (MOVL (R11),SP) > sim> > > thanks, > greg > From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jun 14 08:02:00 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:20 2005 Subject: PET and Magic Sac+ In-Reply-To: <3D09C9D7.E8953FE6@gifford.co.uk> References: <3D09C9D7.E8953FE6@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <02Jun14.143611edt.119077@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >It goes in the Atari's cartridge port, a little-used connector on the >side of the machine. Used an unusual type of edge connector, and >hardly any software was supplied on cartridges. Some sound samplers >used it, though. I think the signals available were read-only, >fine for ROMs, but preventing the use of the slot for most types >of peripherals. I've not seen many ROM cartridges for it but there was a nice VT-100 emulation cartridge available for it. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Fri Jun 14 13:37:46 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:20 2005 Subject: 88000 machines In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.2.32.20020613230410.0103d2e4@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020614143746.0216affc@pop1.epm.net.co> At 07:22 AM 6/14/02 -0700, you wrote: > You probably mean a DECStation 2100 or 3100. Those are both R2000 >based, only difference between 2100 and 3100 is that the 2100 runs at 12 MHZ >and the 3100 at 16. NetBSD supports them quite well. Probably the fastest >small workstation at the time they came out (1989). They look like, and use >the same (or very similar) case, power supply, peripherals, as VS3100/30/38. Of course, silly me. I meant the 2100. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From hansp at aconit.org Fri Jun 14 13:37:49 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:20 2005 Subject: SimH on Win2K References: <3CEF0466.D45FFA44@compsys.to> <3D0A3893.20038.1D2CC844@localhost> <007a01c213d1$664844a0$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <3D0A37FD.8050503@aconit.org> Curt Vendel wrote: > Hey, that looks cool, where can I d/l a copy of the emulator? http://simh.trailing-edge.com -- greg's alter ego ;-) From ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 14 13:48:22 2002 From: ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk (Greg Elkin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:20 2005 Subject: SimH on Win2K In-Reply-To: <007901c213cb$88f14fc0$023ca8c0@blafleur> References: <3D0A3893.20038.1D2CC844@localhost> Message-ID: <3D0A4886.18265.1D6B1537@localhost> Bob Lafleur wrote > The deives in SIMH are RQ0, RQ1, etc. but the corresponding VAX > devices are DUA0, DUA1, etc. So you need to B DUA1, not B DQ1. > Thanks Bob, that indeed was the problem. After all these years of typing "B DUA0:" at the DEC sergeant (>>>) one would think I could remember it! greg, happily booting NetBSD & VMS 5.5-2 now... From ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 14 13:53:02 2002 From: ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk (Greg Elkin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: SimH on Win2K In-Reply-To: <007a01c213d1$664844a0$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <3D0A499E.19533.1D6F5D0C@localhost> Curt Vendel wrote : > Hey, that looks cool, where can I d/l a copy of the emulator? > Bob Supniks excellent emulator (VAX along with many PDPs and other systems) from : http://simh.trailing-edge.com the command line build tools for Windows came from : http://www.mingw.org/ (I used "Latest MinGW-1.0 Snapshot MinGW-1.0.1-20010726") cheers, greg From lgwalker at mts.net Fri Jun 14 13:55:16 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: PET and Magic Sac+ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3D09F5C4.30900.FB23359@localhost> I have a couple of these. It has Mac ROM chips and is powered by a coin- style battery. It plugs into the slot on the left side next to the MIDI which was usually used for a Real-time clock or music carts. I have the software for it if you'd like. There was also a PC emulator called PC Ditto which would run Doze apps. Unbearably slow. The Magic Sac was much better. Lawrence > Also, found a little module that apparently plugs somewhere into an Atari > ST. It's called the Magic Sac+ and on it it says "Turns your Atari into a > Mac". Anyone ever use one of these? Where on the ST would this plug in > to? Or is it for the Mega ST perhaps? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Jun 14 13:57:08 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: Mac Color Classic II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, Chris wrote: > >> Yes, it can talk. Actually, the 128k Mac can talk with the right version > >> of MacInTalk (anyone remember the Talking Moose). > > > >Neat. > > >I did a custom install, but don't remember seeing it. Where is it/can I > >download a copy to install from Apple's downloads site or something? > > It might have been an optional installer rather than being part of the > main OS installer as a custom item. If you have a 7.5 CD, check some of > the optional items on it. I would check my 7.5.5 CD, but I forgot it at > home (and didn't bother checking last night like I should have) Perhaps it was a part of the OS install on later MacOS versions? Anyhow, I downloaded the English TTS part of PlainTalk this morning and installed that... it appears to work ok. > You can find a list of the older Apple software at: > > Yeah, that's where I got the copy of 7.5.3 to install onto it. Very useful site. Now, a new problem. When I try and run the 7.5.5 upgrade, it starts to install (with the progress meter), and then says that it can't be installed and aborts. I downloaded it from the Apple 'Older Software Downloads' page on apple's site, and the Disk Copy images checksum-verify ok. Ideas? It's not a huge deal, as all this machine will probably do is be used to talk, but it'd be nice to get the bugfixes. Thanks -- Pat From allain at panix.com Fri Jun 14 15:09:50 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: SimH on Win2K References: <3D0A499E.19533.1D6F5D0C@localhost> Message-ID: <002101c213df$75d62b40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Bob Supniks excellent emulator (VAX along with many PDPs Is this what happened to Charon-VAX... someone else perfected the commodity so the also-rans gave up? I had heard that C-V never got up much steam. John A. From hansp at aconit.org Fri Jun 14 15:18:24 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: SimH on Win2K References: <3D0A499E.19533.1D6F5D0C@localhost> Message-ID: <3D0A4F90.4060209@aconit.org> Greg Elkin wrote: > Bob Supniks excellent emulator (VAX along with many PDPs and other systems) > from : > http://simh.trailing-edge.com > > the command line build tools for Windows came from : > http://www.mingw.org/ > (I used "Latest MinGW-1.0 Snapshot MinGW-1.0.1-20010726") Although I know Greg did not get this to work I compile SIMH quite easily with Borland's BCC 5.5 complier available for free download from Borlands (Inprise or is it back to Borland again?) site. If you want to be bold, use the Intel compiler. It is freely distributed for Linux systems and as a 30 day evaluation for Windows. SIMH really buzzes when compiled with it. -- hbp From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 14 15:33:03 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: SimH on Win2K In-Reply-To: from "John Allain" at Jun 14, 2002 04:09:50 PM Message-ID: <200206142033.g5EKX3K09114@shell1.aracnet.com> > > > Bob Supniks excellent emulator (VAX along with many PDPs > > Is this what happened to Charon-VAX... someone else > perfected the commodity so the also-rans gave up? > I had heard that C-V never got up much steam. > > John A. CHARON-VAX is still around http://www.softresint.com/charon-vax/index.htm however, unlike Bob's emulators, it's a commercial product. The Hobbyist version of CHARON-VAX has about the same features as SIMH (I think SIMH supports more devices). However, the commercial version of CHARON-VAX is currently the best product[1], unfortunatly, it costs FAR more than an equivalent VAX! Zane [1] Only the commercial versions of CHARON-VAX have ethernet support. From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 14 15:35:24 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: SimH on Win2K In-Reply-To: from "Hans B Pufal" at Jun 14, 2002 10:18:24 PM Message-ID: <200206142035.g5EKZOE09316@shell1.aracnet.com> > If you want to be bold, use the Intel compiler. It is freely distributed > for Linux systems and as a 30 day evaluation for Windows. SIMH really > buzzes when compiled with it. > > -- hbp Have you tried this with more than just the VAX version of SIMH? I'm wondering how much of an improvement I'd see with the PDP-11 version of SIMH, and KLH10 (KLH's PDP-10 emulator). Does the compiler put any kind of a time limit on how long you can run the executables that you generate? Zane From ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 14 16:23:41 2002 From: ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk (Greg Elkin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: SimH on Win2K In-Reply-To: <3D0A4F90.4060209@aconit.org> Message-ID: <3D0A6CED.31637.1DF9477B@localhost> HBP wrote > use the Intel compiler. It is freely distributed for Linux systems > and as a 30 day evaluation for Windows. SIMH really buzzes when > compiled with it. > Hey Hans, can you give me a url to download & try that please? thanks, greg From mythtech at mac.com Fri Jun 14 16:59:01 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: Mac Color Classic II Message-ID: >Perhaps it was a part of the OS install on later MacOS versions? Most of the optional items were wrapped into the mail installer starting with OS 8, so I was probably thinking of that rather than 7.5.5 when I said to check the custom install. >Now, a new problem. When I try and run the 7.5.5 upgrade, it starts to >install (with the progress meter), and then says that it can't be >installed and aborts. I downloaded it from the Apple 'Older Software >Downloads' page on apple's site, and the Disk Copy images >checksum-verify ok. Um... does it give you any kind of a reason why it can't install? (any kind of error message?). I don't notice anything that jumps out in Apple's TIL about it, but you might try restarting with extensions off, and then run the updater (restart holding down SHIFT until you get the Welcome To Mac screen) It has been a LONG time since I tried to do a 7.5.3 install and then a .5 update. I have a 7.5.5 Installer CD that I have been using since I got it, and that does the 7.5.3 install, followed directly by the .5 update, so it never seems to have problems. (and I never stop at .3, as .3 was pretty buggy, with .5 fixing much of the problems). It is possible that the Text To Speech installed something that the .5 updater can't get past. Is it possible for you to start over and do the 7.5.3 followed by .5 before installing anything else? Worst case, I can dub you that 7.5.5 install CD and mail it down to you. Now that 7.5.5 is available on Apple's site for free, I don't think there would be any legal issues with me doing that (or at least not ones that Apple would care about persuing). -chris From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 14 17:04:57 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: SimH on Win2K In-Reply-To: <3D0A6CED.31637.1DF9477B@localhost> from "Greg Elkin" at Jun 14, 2002 10:23:41 PM Message-ID: <200206142204.g5EM4v913394@shell1.aracnet.com> > Hey Hans, can you give me a url to download & try that please? > > thanks, > greg I don't remember the URL, however, there is a CD for both Linux and Windows on the latest issue of the Linux Journal. I picked the magazine up for it, and then found out it's also available for download. My problem is I've not had time to mess with it. Zane From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 14 13:51:06 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: 88000 machines In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020613230410.0103d2e4@pop1.epm.net.co> from "Carlos Murillo" at Jun 13, 2 11:04:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2356 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020614/64216374/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 14 14:01:25 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: PET and Magic Sac+ In-Reply-To: <3D09C9D7.E8953FE6@gifford.co.uk> from "John Honniball" at Jun 14, 2 11:47:51 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1096 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020614/d2b61ee2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 14 14:13:04 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: Network card for LaserJet In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A20@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> from "David Woyciesjes" at Jun 14, 2 10:30:00 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 200 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020614/18399c88/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jun 14 11:16:12 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: Atari ST (was: Re: VERY good weekend) In-Reply-To: <001201c213bd$9f900e00$0a00a8c0@cvendel> References: <001201c213bd$9f900e00$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <02Jun14.184524edt.119101@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >1040ST's were some of the most widely built version of the ST's, they appear >most often in swap meets and on Ebay and usually you can get a nice setup >with monitor for anywhere from $20-$30 on Ebay. The 1040ST's also have a >deeper case design and lots of room for the many expansions both commercial >and homebrew that are available, several include the 1.44mb floppy upgrade, >IDE hd, cpu upgrade and memory upgrade. There are also a few new homebrew >upgrades like the ASCI to ISA bus that allows you to use standard NE2000 >network cards and hook your ST up to the Internet, CAB 2.7 and another newer >browsers are available and there are multiple email, realplayer compatible, >PDF reader compatible, newsgroup utils available to totally equip your ST >for Internet use. I would highly Papyrus word processor, it is excellent. >Also look into using MiNT and the replacement desktops.... especially Jinnee >which has a cross Mac/Win9x look and feel... Weren't internal options, such as hard disks, made for the the Mega by 3rd party developers or was that only for the MegaSTE? I've always wanted to expand my Mega above the standard SH204 hard disk and SM124 monitor but never got around to buying anything other than TOS 1.04 from Toad before they exited the Atari market. If nothing else, one of the ICD interfaces might be cool. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jun 14 18:09:58 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: Network card for LaserJet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > But, yes, I agree. Those hubs are the only time _I've_ seen RJ-45 > > used for serial communication. > > Perhaps somebody can explain why 10baseT ethernet is not 'serial > communication' ( :-) ) Ooooh! Picky! But you're right. Doc From curt at atari-history.com Fri Jun 14 18:12:53 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: PET and Magic Sac+ References: Message-ID: <000b01c213f9$03144640$0a00a8c0@cvendel> You're much better utilizing the ASCI Port for such things as opposed to the cart port. The machine was very rushed in design from July 84 to get it out the door for April 85. The Tramiels thought they were going to walk into Atari and own the Amiga chipset and Atari 1850XL computer designs, however on June 30th when the chipset was supposed to be delivered to Atari, Amiga delivered a check for $500,000 to Atari to pay them back the money they gave to Amiga to complete the chipset. So they went into breach of contract and Atari sued them on Aug 13, 1984. The court decision in 87 was a closed one, and I'm still trying to get a definitive answer on what the true outcome was. So without the Amiga chipset and having the basic 1850XL design with no chips to put into it, the Tramiels were forced to work from scratch using some initial designs for a 32032 system that Shiraz Shivja had done and they pieced together the STs. Heck, the first batch of ST's didn't even have ROM chips yet as the OS was still being finalized, it wasn't until the Sept/85 batch that the ST's were shipping with internal TOS. :-) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 3:01 PM Subject: Re: PET and Magic Sac+ > > It goes in the Atari's cartridge port, a little-used connector on the > > side of the machine. Used an unusual type of edge connector, and > > hardly any software was supplied on cartridges. Some sound samplers > > used it, though. I think the signals available were read-only, > > fine for ROMs, but preventing the use of the slot for most types > > of peripherals. > > Yes, IIRC, you had the data bus, some of the address bus and a couple of > chip select lines on that connector. Ideal for a ROM cartridge but not > for much else. > > Worse than that, the Glue chip (IIRC) generated a bus error if you tried > to write to the cartridge memory area. So there was no point in picking > up the R/W line from somewhere else. > > What some people did was use the address lines as outputs. They'd map a > latch to 256 contiguous memory locations and then use it to latch the > bottom 8 address lines (even on a read cycle). Then reading the > appropriate address from the cartridge port area would set the outputs of > the latch to the right states. A kludge, sure, but it was just about the > only way to do it. > > -tony From curt at atari-history.com Fri Jun 14 18:17:11 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: Atari ST (was: Re: VERY good weekend) References: <001201c213bd$9f900e00$0a00a8c0@cvendel> <02Jun14.184524edt.119101@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <001301c213f9$9c9f1150$0a00a8c0@cvendel> The Mega ST's had the Mega Drives which were pizza box ASCI drives that stacked ontop of the Mega's, the initial HD's for the ST in general were the Atari SH204's and HD's by companies like Supra and ICD, Inc. There are now several IDE adapters that can work in nearly all of the ST's, Wizztronics sells them as well as Best Electronics too. ICD had a dongle called "The Link" that added the additional circuitry that Atari was too cheap to include on its ASCI port to turn it into a full blown SCSI port. The Mega STE's shipped with internal HD's and then later versions of the 1040ST called the 1040STE had internal HD's too. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 12:16 PM Subject: Atari ST (was: Re: VERY good weekend) > >1040ST's were some of the most widely built version of the ST's, they appear > >most often in swap meets and on Ebay and usually you can get a nice setup > >with monitor for anywhere from $20-$30 on Ebay. The 1040ST's also have a > >deeper case design and lots of room for the many expansions both commercial > >and homebrew that are available, several include the 1.44mb floppy upgrade, > >IDE hd, cpu upgrade and memory upgrade. There are also a few new homebrew > >upgrades like the ASCI to ISA bus that allows you to use standard NE2000 > >network cards and hook your ST up to the Internet, CAB 2.7 and another newer > >browsers are available and there are multiple email, realplayer compatible, > >PDF reader compatible, newsgroup utils available to totally equip your ST > >for Internet use. I would highly Papyrus word processor, it is excellent. > >Also look into using MiNT and the replacement desktops.... especially Jinnee > >which has a cross Mac/Win9x look and feel... > > Weren't internal options, such as hard disks, made for the > the Mega by 3rd party developers or was that only for the MegaSTE? > I've always wanted to expand my Mega above the standard SH204 hard > disk and SM124 monitor but never got around to buying anything other > than TOS 1.04 from Toad before they exited the Atari market. If > nothing else, one of the ICD interfaces might be cool. > > Jeff > -- > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.cchaven.com > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Jun 14 18:49:43 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: iAPX 432 (was Re: 88000 machines) In-Reply-To: <3D07C2CE.E0E11E3@gifford.co.uk> References: <3D07C2CE.E0E11E3@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <33185.64.169.63.74.1024098583.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > One of my collecting goals is to acquire an example of each of > the microprocessor acrhitectures. Now 6502, 8080, 6809, 68000, > and so on are easy. What about the Z8000? The 32032 (I do have > a Whitechapel)? The 88000? The iAPX432? It's pretty tough to get iAPX 432 stuff. The software is even more difficult to find than the boards or chips. The iSBC-432/100 evaluation board was used in the MDS. There was an interpreter for a language called OPL-432, which was a dialect of Smalltalk closely related to Rosetta Smalltalk. Unfortunately OPL only runs on the release 1.0 chips. (Maybe 1.1 as well?) The iSBC-432/100 never ran any of the "real" 432 software. The full-blown development system was the 432/600 series, and typically customers bought the standard configuration, a 432/670, although it was possible to buy 432/6xx boards, backplanes, enclosures, etc. ala carte in order to build smaller or larger configurations. The 432/670 could support up to five processors and six memory cards for a total of 1.5M of memory. I modified the memory controller and memory cards on one system to allow for up to 6M using 256K DRAMs. By using a larger backplane, it was possible to have six processors and ten memory cards for a total of 2.5M (10M with my modifications). All I/O went through one or more "Attached Processors" or APs. The AP was typically 8086-based, and in practice was usually an iSBC 86/12A or iSBC 86/14, running iRMX-86 or iRMX-88. The 432/6xx had to be attached to a Series III MDS in order to load and debug software, and the cross development had to be done on a VAX running either VMS or BSD 4.1. The software consists of: MDS side: diagnostics DEBUG-432 VAX side: CDS-432 Cross Development System: Ada-432 compiler LINK-432 iMAX-432 operating system AFAIK, the last customer release of CDS-432 was release 2.7, which supported the release 3.2 chips. Intel continued development in house in support of the Intel/Siemens joint venture (later commercially named "BiiN"). There were release 3.3 chips, and probably software to support them, but they were not available to customers. I have not been able to obtain a complete copy of any release of CDS-432 or iMAX-432, nor I have found the diagnostics or DEBUG-432. I keep hoping that copies of this stuff will turn up eventually, but things look pretty grim... From geoffr at zipcon.net Fri Jun 14 19:11:45 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: Network card for LaserJet In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A20@yalepress3.unipre ss.yale.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020614171113.024a0030@mail.zipcon.net> At 10:30 AM 6/14/02 -0400, you wrote: > F.Y.I. - My Cabletron MRXI hubs have RJ-45 sockets, for hooking up >to a serial VT420 terminal... :) > But, yes, I agree. Those hubs are the only time _I've_ seen RJ-45 >used for serial communication. Many terminal servers use RJ45 for serial From Innfogra at aol.com Fri Jun 14 19:08:00 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: iAPX 432 (was Re: 88000 machines) Message-ID: <137.f978dda.2a3bdf60@aol.com> In a message dated 6/14/02 4:54:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, eric@brouhaha.com writes: > AFAIK, the last customer release of CDS-432 was release 2.7, which > supported the release 3.2 chips. Intel continued development in house > in support of the Intel/Siemens joint venture (later commercially named > "BiiN"). There were release 3.3 chips, and probably software to support > them, but they were not available to customers. > > I have not been able to obtain a complete copy of any release of > CDS-432 or iMAX-432, nor I have found the diagnostics or DEBUG-432. > I keep hoping that copies of this stuff will turn up eventually, but > things look pretty grim... > > Grim is right. Intel was extremely dedicated to destroying SW. When we were buying from them in that time period we never got any SW. Saw large bins of Intel disks on their way to destruction. Sad. I have the pinboard tester for the Biin CPU card. It came out surplus in a later lot we did not have to certify destruction on. I have full docs on it too. It is a classic museum piece, and I bet nearly the only piece of Biin left. I will try to get pictures up within the next few weeks. It is buried in storage. Paxton Astoria, OR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020614/c416d2ae/attachment.html From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 14 19:23:26 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: No IMSAI on ebay References: <200206141540.LAA06412@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <002c01c21402$ddf97b00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I don't know ... you'll have to ask Jay. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Pope" To: Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 9:40 AM Subject: Re: No IMSAI on ebay > And thusly Richard Erlacher spake: > > > > What??? You mean the messages I receive? > > > > They're not archived on the server, but get flushed periodically from this > > Windows machine. It's just that each time I log in to the server, the Windows > > OS asks the server what the date and time are, and then resets its clock. > > Since I use several different OS' in the same box, swapping out the primary > > hard disk, it does this each time I swap OS' and therefore requires I remember > > to use NISTtime to reset the clock. Unfortunately, I've not yet figured out > > that I need to put NISTtime in the startup folder ... ... one of these > > days ... > > > > I'm sorry - I meant the cctalk archives. Won't these messages be archived as > if they were sent in 1988? > > Bryan > > From hansp at aconit.org Fri Jun 14 22:52:25 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: SimH on Win2K - intel compiler References: <3D0A6CED.31637.1DF9477B@localhost> Message-ID: <3D0AB9F9.40702@aconit.org> Greg Elkin wrote: > HBP wrote >>use the Intel compiler. It is freely distributed for Linux systems >>and as a 30 day evaluation for Windows. SIMH really buzzes when >>compiled with it. > Hey Hans, can you give me a url to download & try that please? http://www.intel.com/software/products/compilers/ Should get you started. -- hbp From hansp at aconit.org Fri Jun 14 22:55:53 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: SimH on Win2K - Intel compilers References: <200206142035.g5EKZOE09316@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3D0ABAC9.4010600@aconit.org> Zane H. Healy wrote: >>If you want to be bold, use the Intel compiler. It is freely distributed >>for Linux systems and as a 30 day evaluation for Windows. SIMH really >>buzzes when compiled with it. > Have you tried this with more than just the VAX version of SIMH? I'm > wondering how much of an improvement I'd see with the PDP-11 version of > SIMH, and KLH10 (KLH's PDP-10 emulator). I was using it last year to do some simple benchmarks onthe PDP-10 simulators and the Intel compiler at that time handliy beat the MS and Borland ones in speed of compiled code. Intel recently released new improved versions. > Does the compiler put any kind of a time limit on how long you can run the > executables that you generate? The Linux version can be downloaded and used without restriction for personal use, the Windows version comes with a 30 day evaluation period. Ther is not restriction on executables generated that I know of. -- hbp From class at fliptronics.com Sat Jun 15 00:51:49 2002 From: class at fliptronics.com (Philip Freidin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: Trying to clean out garage In-Reply-To: <002c01c21402$ddf97b00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <200206141540.LAA06412@wordstock.com> <002c01c21402$ddf97b00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: It is time to get brutal with my intent to get stuff out of my garage, and make room for new stuff. If you are interested, have a look at: http://www.fliptronics.com/garagesale/ Location: Sunnyvale California Thanks, Philip Freidin ================= Philip Freidin class@fliptronics.com From Innfogra at aol.com Sat Jun 15 02:29:57 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: Got to look at the PDP7 Message-ID: <6f.2903d815.2a3c46f5@aol.com> Finally was able to get a look at the PDP 7. I think it qualifies as the find of the week, or year, for me. I have corresponded with those most interested in it. If interested please contact me offlist at whoagiii@aol.com. Pictures at: http://members.aol.com/innfogra/pdp7.html or http://hometown.aol.com/innfogra/pdp7.html Here is the report; I saw the PDP 7. It is a delight. It is too bad the entire Lab could not be saved as a museum. The computer was installed in 1965 to run a 5 MEV Van de Graff Generator which had been installed in 1964. There is still one experiment running in the lab so it is not being shut down yet. The PDP 7 was replaced in 1992 with a RIDGE 32. The RIDGE 32 was replaced in 1999 with a SUN IPX which runs the Van de Graf via a GPIB connection. However the PDP7 was not removed or even disconnected. Harlan fired it up, tried to load a program off a disk drive, by first running a punch tape. Finally got the tape loaded and you could see action in the homemade disk drive controller, but nada. He was able to key in a simple program via the front switches that ran. Classic blinkin lights, wow! Evidently it is a Germanium transistor computer. Germanium, not being as stable as silicon, needs more love, care and attention to keep it running. There are two cabinets of boards and parts including extra core. It originally came with 4K of Core but they upgraded it with 4K more for a total of 8K. It has a 555 DECTAPE drive, a paper tape reader and desk in the central cabinet. It is 6 cabinets wide, however these are a narrow double door cabinet so the entire computer doesn't seem massive. It is cute! The paper tape punch is in the cabinet to the far left with 4K of core underneath. Second to the left is the other 4K and the power supplies for the memory. The third from the left is the console, desk and paper tape reader. IIRC there are three more cabinets to the left, the last two sparsely populated. All the cards are singles, early flip chip style. It originally came with a KSR 33 Teletype which is long gone. They used an ADM terminal in a roll around rack. Above the terminal is a HP1300 display. At the top are two DEC floppy drives with the Lab's own homemade disk controller. All this should be visible in the pictures. There is an entire file cabinet drawer of docs and paper tapes. Several boxes of boards and components, as Harlan said, a complete set of spares. he also indicated they were familiar with board level repairs and that is what it took to keep it running. They inherited lots of tapes from a PDP10 at one time, because they could use the same ones. There are several cabinets of small tapes. It is a classic museum piece. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Jun 15 05:27:47 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: Cosmac References: <006401c2135b$65e344e0$0a00a8c0@cvendel> <00bd01c2136f$30cbdec0$d02dcd18@wayne052602> <001401c213cb$79c99ca0$5a19d7d1@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <00a401c21457$4baf86e0$0100000a@deepspacenine> "Mike" said: > Cool! That looks like a CDS 1 or CDS II maybe. They use the COSMAC > Microboard Universal Backplane and can nest a number of cool RCA cards (CPU, > mem, i/o, disk, color video, etc..). Send some card numbers. I've got docs > on lot of them here. Do any of your docs say what "COSMAC" actually means? I was thinking along the lines of "Chip On Sapphire MAChine" or something like that (the COSMAC 1802 was originally fabricated using a Silicon On Sapphire process that gave it radiation resistance - IIRC NASA used 1802s on some deep-space probes). Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Jun 15 05:46:36 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: Atari ST (was: Re: VERY good weekend) In-Reply-To: <02Jun14.184524edt.119101@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> References: <001201c213bd$9f900e00$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <3D0AD4BC.2648.13195077@localhost> I've had an LCD Link for using SCSI peripherals for some time. I used a Syquest EZ135 with it until the Syquest died. Also a SCSI CD with Extendos. I dont know if there are SCSI HD size limitations tho. Lawrence > >1040ST's were some of the most widely built version of the ST's, they appear > >most often in swap meets and on Ebay and usually you can get a nice setup with > >monitor for anywhere from $20-$30 on Ebay. The 1040ST's also have a deeper > >case design and lots of room for the many expansions both commercial and > >homebrew that are available, several include the 1.44mb floppy upgrade, IDE hd, > >cpu upgrade and memory upgrade. There are also a few new homebrew upgrades > >like the ASCI to ISA bus that allows you to use standard NE2000 network cards > >and hook your ST up to the Internet, CAB 2.7 and another newer browsers are > >available and there are multiple email, realplayer compatible, PDF reader > >compatible, newsgroup utils available to totally equip your ST for Internet > >use. I would highly Papyrus word processor, it is excellent. Also look into > >using MiNT and the replacement desktops.... especially Jinnee which has a cross > >Mac/Win9x look and feel... > > Weren't internal options, such as hard disks, made for the > the Mega by 3rd party developers or was that only for the MegaSTE? > I've always wanted to expand my Mega above the standard SH204 hard > disk and SM124 monitor but never got around to buying anything other > than TOS 1.04 from Toad before they exited the Atari market. If > nothing else, one of the ICD interfaces might be cool. > > Jeff > -- > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.cchaven.com > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Jun 15 05:46:36 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: Atari 1040ST; Was Re: VERY good weekend In-Reply-To: References: <20020613225842.GJ18314@gxis.de> Message-ID: <3D0AD4BC.21272.13194F69@localhost> The 6 chip model can be upgraded to the 2 chip and RAM expanded to the maximum of 4 megs. There were several kits for RAM expansion available and the chip switch involved unsoldering a few pads. Lawrence > On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, Alexander Bochmann wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > ...on Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 12:25:12AM -0500, Doc wrote: > > > > > Are the DMA-SCSI adapters unobtainium? Sounds useful. > > > > Best Electronics has two or three different types > > (as well as almost anything else Atari). > > Yes, I found it this afternoon. However, I think I'll forego that > expense. If I had a model that was otherwise more upgradeable - 2-chip > ROM, RAM expansion, etc, that $75 would make sense. > I fully expect the principle of mutual attraction to come into play, > though. Now that I've paid for one, many more will follow for free. > One thing I will surely watch for, even if I just have the ST, is an > external floppy drive. The thing is crippled with only one. :^) > > Doc > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Jun 15 08:24:41 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: VERY good weekend References: Message-ID: <3D0B4019.5000505@tiac.net> Ahh, the E6B, I almost remember it! I had one made by Cessna, but they all work the same way. The 'original' E6B was made by several makers under contract for the USAF. These are always metal. Most civilian versions are plastic, or plastic and metal. They are still made, and used for basic pilot training today. Doc wrote: >On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > >>On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Doc wrote: >> > >>>>> A Telex EB6 Dead Reckoning Computer. Telex still sells them, but I'm >>>>>sure this one's at least 15 years old. >>>>> > >>You're sure that it is not an E6B? >> > > Isn't that what I said? ;) > Thanks for catching the typo. > Here are the best pics I've found online. Mine is an FDF-60, and >copyrighted 1975, but I think the difference is mostly or all cosmetic. > >http://chris.gillings.com/collect/slide/telex.html > > Of course, those E6B's all look alike to me. ;^) > So, E6B is a type designation, right? Not a model name? I can't find >any info on the FDF-60, so I don't know if the "1975" has anything to do >with its age. Very cool little instrument, though. > > > Doc > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020615/355aeb2e/attachment.html From zmerch at 30below.com Sat Jun 15 08:44:59 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: Computers in cars (was: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: References: <20020613032455.GC2943@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020615093620.0295cc38@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Tony Duell may have mentioned these words: >This is true. But some pre-1970 cars don't either (Diesel engines were in >use before 1970 :-)). Of course many modern cars have far too many >electronic computers in them (the correct number, of course, is zero). I disagree - the correct number should be 1. One computer, of 6800/6809/6502/Z80/8085 vintage, with separate RAM/ROM/NVRAM data storage chips, an RS-232 port for in-circuit programming & data logging capabilities (with a simple enough protocol that you could do any work you needed with it with a Tandy 100/102/200 laptop) to run the dashboard functions. The automobile should, of course, be able to run with the computer completely non-functional, or even non-existent (in case you needed to take a quick jaunt to the store for a few more pints while you were working on the dashboard... :-) This is what I wanted to do with my 1984 Fiero, until I recently found out the engine went the way of the dodo-bird... :-( I strongly believe that computers anywhere near the engine compartment is a *very* bad thing, tho... Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Jun 15 08:52:25 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: E-6B usage References: Message-ID: <3D0B4699.9050200@tiac.net> The FAA has no such requirment at all! I'm a private pilot and I own my own plane. During primary flight training I was introduced to the E6B and found it quite fustrating to use. So I threw some money at the problem and bought an electronic E6B from Sporty's Pilot Shop. This was APPROVED for use during the FAA written test, no questions asked. During my checkride no questions were asked that needed any of the calculations these things perform. And this was some 6 or 7 years back now. I can't guess when any 'requirment' was removed, but the Sporty's electronic E6B was pretty new at the time. Now of course all the E6B functions are built into most Loran and GPS units, and I've not seen a student pilot laboring over a mechanical E6B in a long long time. I'm not even sure if they still train pilots with them at all at the local flight school (FIT). J.C. Wren wrote: > As far as I know, the FAA still requires students to know how to use an >E-6B, and they're still very readily available. I don't remember the exact >rules anymore since it's been sometime since I've flown, but you are not >permitted to rely on a device that requires external power or batteries, >without a manual fallback system, since either or both may fail in flight. > > There are a number of E-6B type computers out there, both mechanial wheels, >and electronic. Sportys sold a calculator like E-6B (I have one still), and >it's batteries like crazy. Some E-6B ares much classier than others. Mine >is a mid-range solid aluminum wheel. There are plastic ones, hybrids, etc. >Some are quite attractive, and I believe collected by some people. > > --John > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On >Behalf Of Jeffrey Sharp >Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 11:21 >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: VERY good weekend > > >On Wednesday, June 12, 2002, Don Maslin wrote: > >>> A Telex EB6 Dead Reckoning Computer. >>> >>Well, 1975 would make it a fairly late model since they were commonly used >>during - and probably before - WWII. >> > >I think they are still in use. I was in flight school about 5-6 years ago >(didn't finish), and my instructor had me using an E-6B every now and then. >I bought mine brand new from Sporty's Pilot Shop in 1996. > >BTW, one place I trained (Airman Flight School in Norman, OK) is also one >place where Zacarias Moussaoui trained. He even seems to have opened a bank >account and joined a gym here in Norman. Freaky. > >-- >Jeffrey Sharp > >The email address lists@subatomix.com is for mailing list traffic. Please >send off-list mail to roach jay ess ess at wasp subatomix beetle dot com. >You may need to remove some bugs first. > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020615/eb0658e7/attachment.html From uban at ubanproductions.com Sat Jun 15 09:03:59 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: Got to look at the PDP7 In-Reply-To: <6f.2903d815.2a3c46f5@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020615090359.0098ed90@ubanproductions.com> That is extremely cool! I agree that is too bad that the whole lab cannot be kept intact. What is to become of the van de graph generator? Is that being taken apart as well? I hope that someone will be able to save and maintain the pdp7 in a running or runnable state. I wish that I had the time, money, and space to do it myself... --tom At 03:29 AM 6/15/02 EDT, you wrote: >Finally was able to get a look at the PDP 7. I think it qualifies as the find >of the week, or year, for me. > >I have corresponded with those most interested in it. If interested please >contact me offlist at whoagiii@aol.com. > >Pictures at: > >http://members.aol.com/innfogra/pdp7.html > >or > >http://hometown.aol.com/innfogra/pdp7.html > >Here is the report; > >I saw the PDP 7. It is a delight. It is too bad the entire Lab could not be >saved as a museum. The computer was installed in 1965 to run a 5 MEV Van de >Graff Generator which had been installed in 1964. There is still one >experiment running in the lab so it is not being shut down yet. > >The PDP 7 was replaced in 1992 with a RIDGE 32. The RIDGE 32 was replaced in >1999 with a SUN IPX which runs the Van de Graf via a GPIB connection. > >However the PDP7 was not removed or even disconnected. Harlan fired it up, >tried to load a program off a disk drive, by first running a punch tape. >Finally got the tape loaded and you could see action in the homemade disk >drive controller, but nada. >He was able to key in a simple program via the front switches that ran. >Classic blinkin lights, wow! > >Evidently it is a Germanium transistor computer. Germanium, not being as >stable as silicon, needs more love, care and attention to keep it running. >There are two cabinets of boards and parts including extra core. It >originally came with 4K of Core but they upgraded it with 4K more for a total >of 8K. > >It has a 555 DECTAPE drive, a paper tape reader and desk in the central >cabinet. It is 6 cabinets wide, however these are a narrow double door >cabinet so the entire computer doesn't seem massive. It is cute! The paper >tape punch is in the cabinet to the far left with 4K of core underneath. >Second to the left is the other 4K and the power supplies for the memory. The >third from the left is the console, desk and paper tape reader. IIRC there >are three more cabinets to the left, the last two sparsely populated. All the >cards are singles, early flip chip style. > >It originally came with a KSR 33 Teletype which is long gone. They used an >ADM terminal in a roll around rack. Above the terminal is a HP1300 display. >At the top are two DEC floppy drives with the Lab's own homemade disk >controller. All this should be visible in the pictures. > >There is an entire file cabinet drawer of docs and paper tapes. Several boxes >of boards and components, as Harlan said, a complete set of spares. he also >indicated they were familiar with board level repairs and that is what it >took to keep it running. They inherited lots of tapes from a PDP10 at one >time, because they could use the same ones. There are several cabinets of >small tapes. > >It is a classic museum piece. > > From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Jun 15 09:04:24 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: IMSAI News? References: <20020614041104.99745.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D0B4968.4030300@tiac.net> Last I spoke with the people at Imsai, the machine had some major issues in my eyes... First, its no longer a S-100 box. (deal breaker right there)... None of your existing S-100 stuff can be used with the machine, and with no expansion bus, Imsai has turned one of the first open architecture boxes into something more like a Mac (super-Eeeek!). Secondly, it was going to use a ISA VGA board for video display (Eeeek, not ISA)! This last bit was really problematic becuse the Z800 cannot execute the VGA bios code in the ISA board's rom. These issues were enough for me to realize that the Series-2 machines were not for me. But the idea of having a PC motherboard in there along with the Z800 ~could~ make for a very interesting teaching platform. But once you have the PC motherboard in there, why run the actual Z800 CPU at all? Emulation would probably be much faster. Loboyko Steve wrote: >Today, I noticed a link on Slashdot about the IMSAI >Series Two at www.imsai.net. Shipping in July. It >LOOKS real, but there are mostly drawings and not >pictures. Uses a Z80 successor CPU. Switching power >supply, though. $995. Still the beautiful front panel >that was as good as most mini's. Frankly, I find this >price hard to believe - too low, given the super >quality of the original machine and the volume this >might be made in. > >Does even discussing this violate the 10 year rule? > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup >http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com > From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Jun 15 09:06:53 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: Cosmac References: <006401c2135b$65e344e0$0a00a8c0@cvendel> <00bd01c2136f$30cbdec0$d02dcd18@wayne052602> Message-ID: <3D0B49FD.7090502@tiac.net> Yes Sir! Thats either an 1801 or 1802 development system chassis! I think I have docs for that thing somewhere hidden along with my Netronics ELF-II! Wayne M. Smith wrote: >Anyone have any idea what this is or what it does? > >http://home.earthlink.net/~wmsmith/_uimages/Cosmac.jpg > > From rickb at bensene.com Fri Jun 14 23:51:26 2002 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] DEC 3000/600? In-Reply-To: <3D0ABAC9.4010600@aconit.org> Message-ID: <003901c21428$4e85bcb0$030aa8c0@bensene.com> Hello, I made a haul of various computer stuff yesterday, most of which is too new to qualify for the 10 year rule, but not sure if this one is or not. It is a Digital Equipment 3000, Model 600. It is a desktop-style case with horizontal orientation. It's HEAVY. Anyone know anything about this machine? It powers up OK, and goes through a sequence of flashing different codes (POST?) on 8 LED's on the back panel. I haven't hooked up a console to it (it uses a funky RJ-style connector for the console port). It has a CD-ROM drive in the of the cabinet. There is an old-style Centronics SCSI connector on the back, as well as old AUI-style 10Base2 connector for Ethernet. It also appears to have a built-in ISDN interface. There's three slots for option cards, and one haswhat appears to be some kind of color framebuffer card with a 3-pin (RGB?) D-style connector. Can anyone tell me more about this machine? What processor does it use? Is it VAX-like? Operating systems? VMS/Ultrix? I haven't opened the machine up to see what's inside as yet, didn't have much time this afternoon to dig into it deeper. Any help appreciated. Thanks in advance, Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Web Museum http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From jcwren at jcwren.com Sat Jun 15 09:47:29 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: E-6B usage In-Reply-To: <3D0B4699.9050200@tiac.net> Message-ID: Surely you're not telling me the FAA no longer requires students to know how to perform these functions manually, nor requires them to demonstrate that knowledge? --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bob Shannon Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 09:52 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: E-6B usage The FAA has no such requirment at all! I'm a private pilot and I own my own plane. During primary flight training I was introduced to the E6B and found it quite fustrating to use. So I threw some money at the problem and bought an electronic E6B from Sporty's Pilot Shop. This was APPROVED for use during the FAA written test, no questions asked. During my checkride no questions were asked that needed any of the calculations these things perform. And this was some 6 or 7 years back now. I can't guess when any 'requirment' was removed, but the Sporty's electronic E6B was pretty new at the time. Now of course all the E6B functions are built into most Loran and GPS units, and I've not seen a student pilot laboring over a mechanical E6B in a long long time. I'm not even sure if they still train pilots with them at all at the local flight school (FIT). J.C. Wren wrote: As far as I know, the FAA still requires students to know how to use anE-6B, and they're still very readily available. I don't remember the exactrules anymore since it's been sometime since I've flown, but you are notpermitted to rely on a device that requires external power or batteries,without a manual fallback system, since either or both may fail in flight. There are a number of E-6B type computers out there, both mechanial wheels,and electronic. Sportys sold a calculator like E-6B (I have one still), andit's batteries like crazy. Some E-6B ares much classier than others. Mineis a mid-range solid aluminum wheel. There are plastic ones, hybrids, etc.Some are quite attractive, and I believe collected by some people. --John-----Original Message-----From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]OnBehalf Of Jeffrey SharpSent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 11:21To: cctalk@classiccmp.orgSubject: Re: VERY good weekendOn Wednesday, June 12, 2002, Don Maslin wrote: A Telex EB6 Dead Reckoning Computer.Well, 1975 would make it a fairly late model since they were commonly usedduring - and probably before - WWII.I think they are still in use. I was in flight school about 5-6 years ago(didn't finish), and my instructor had me using an E-6B every now and then.I bought mine brand new from Sporty's Pilot Shop in 1996.BTW, one place I trained (Airman Flight School in Norman, OK) is also oneplace where Zacarias Moussaoui trained. He even seems to have opened a bankaccount and joined a gym here in Norman. Freaky.--Jeffrey SharpThe email address lists@subatomix.com is for mailing list traffic. Pleasesend off-list mail to roach jay ess ess at wasp subatomix beetle dot com.You may need to remove some bugs first. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020615/096ccbb2/attachment.html From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 15 09:51:39 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: IMSAI News? References: <20020614041104.99745.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com> <3D0B4968.4030300@tiac.net> Message-ID: <000a01c2147c$27bea160$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Back when Todd Fischer was starting the development of his Imsai-II I had reservations about his plan to use a Z80 scion rather than the "real-McCoy, and using an SMPSU that provided regulated supply rather than the traditional unregulated supplies. Whe he asked me to become involved in the development I had a full plate and couldn't do it, but I certainly didn't like the "smell" of the notion of trying to compete in the rabidly competitive PC market, which clearly what it looked like he was wanting to do. Hoping to capitalize on the availability of low-cost PSU hardware, that having been a major problem with the early S-100 hardware, and that being a major weight/shipping-cost contributor, I think he was seeing the Z800, or whatever it was, as a PC-competitive vehicle, which it wasn't. In fact, I don't believe Zilog has anything capable of competing in that market at all. If one wants a product that is both CP/M-80 capable and also able to run the on-card firmware of ISA card peripherals, the V-40/V50 from NEC, and some of their scions, though the later scions no longer have the 8080 core, which is a problem, offer an alternative. The V40/V50 contain the serial I/O, timers, DMAC's, interrupt hardware, etc, that readily support executing 8086-code, thereby making the use of ISA boards straightforward, at least as part of the CP/M BIOS. They also offer speed advanatages that can't be overlooked, but generating the S-100 timing from their signals is not trivial and requires the sacrifice of some performance. If one wants to "have is cake (in the form of the 8080-compatible hardware execution unit) and eat it too (in the form of the 8086 instruction set compatibility)," the V50 certain would be my choice. I've built up a board that appears to generate the required timing from a V50 to run a basic S-100 interface compatible with late-70's (pre-IEEE 696 standard) S-100 hardware. Since I don't have an Imsai or Altair front-panel, I have no way of ensuring that such a device would work with this board, and since I've not had the time or motivation to get it done, I've not worked out the details of swtiching back and forth between the 8080 execution unit and the 8086 execution unit, which would be required to make all this stuff work properly. One of these days ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Shannon" To: Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 8:04 AM Subject: Re: IMSAI News? > Last I spoke with the people at Imsai, the machine had some major issues > in my eyes... > > First, its no longer a S-100 box. (deal breaker right there)... None > of your existing > S-100 stuff can be used with the machine, and with no expansion bus, > Imsai has turned > one of the first open architecture boxes into something more like a Mac > (super-Eeeek!). > > Secondly, it was going to use a ISA VGA board for video display (Eeeek, > not ISA)! > > This last bit was really problematic becuse the Z800 cannot execute the > VGA bios code > in the ISA board's rom. > > These issues were enough for me to realize that the Series-2 machines > were not for me. > > But the idea of having a PC motherboard in there along with the Z800 > ~could~ make for > a very interesting teaching platform. But once you have the PC > motherboard in there, why > run the actual Z800 CPU at all? Emulation would probably be much faster. > > Loboyko Steve wrote: > > >Today, I noticed a link on Slashdot about the IMSAI > >Series Two at www.imsai.net. Shipping in July. It > >LOOKS real, but there are mostly drawings and not > >pictures. Uses a Z80 successor CPU. Switching power > >supply, though. $995. Still the beautiful front panel > >that was as good as most mini's. Frankly, I find this > >price hard to believe - too low, given the super > >quality of the original machine and the volume this > >might be made in. > > > >Does even discussing this violate the 10 year rule? > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup > >http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com > > > > > From pcw at mesanet.com Sat Jun 15 12:27:48 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] DEC 3000/600? In-Reply-To: <003901c21428$4e85bcb0$030aa8c0@bensene.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, Rick Bensene wrote: > Hello, > > I made a haul of various computer stuff yesterday, most of which is too > new to qualify > for the 10 year rule, but not sure if this one is or not. > > It is a Digital Equipment 3000, Model 600. > It is a desktop-style case with horizontal orientation. It's HEAVY. > > Anyone know anything about this machine? > It powers up OK, and goes through a sequence of flashing different codes > (POST?) > on 8 LED's on the back panel. I haven't hooked up a console to it (it > uses a > funky RJ-style connector for the console port). It has a CD-ROM drive > in the of > the cabinet. There is an old-style Centronics SCSI connector on the > back, as > well as old AUI-style 10Base2 connector for Ethernet. It also appears > to have > a built-in ISDN interface. There's three slots for option cards, and > one haswhat appears to be some kind of color framebuffer card with a > 3-pin (RGB?) D-style connector. > > Can anyone tell me more about this machine? What processor does it use? > Is it > VAX-like? Operating systems? VMS/Ultrix? Processor = Alpha 21064A @ 175 MHz ECC memory OS = VMS,OSF1/DU/Trunix/whatever,NetBSD Fast narrow SCSI (10 Mbytes/sec) 10M Ethernet Video is 3 wire (3W3 connector) probably 1280X1024@72Hz sync-on-green Needs funny cable/adapter for KB/mouse (I have many if you need one) Fairly good room heater... > > I haven't opened the machine up to see what's inside as yet, didn't have > much time > this afternoon to dig into it deeper. > > Any help appreciated. > Thanks in advance, > > Rick Bensene > The Old Calculator Web Museum > http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators > > > _______________________________________________ > cctech mailing list > cctech@classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From ab at lists.gxis.de Sat Jun 15 13:06:25 2002 From: ab at lists.gxis.de (Alexander Bochmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: Atari ST (was: Re: VERY good weekend) In-Reply-To: <001301c213f9$9c9f1150$0a00a8c0@cvendel> References: <001201c213bd$9f900e00$0a00a8c0@cvendel> <02Jun14.184524edt.119101@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> <001301c213f9$9c9f1150$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <20020615180625.GA16874@gxis.de> Hi, ...on Fri, Jun 14, 2002 at 07:17:11PM -0400, Curt Vendel wrote: > The Mega STE's shipped with internal HD's and then later versions > of the 1040ST called the 1040STE had internal HD's too. I've never seen that... All the STe's had in addition was the Blitter, enhanced sound, TOS 1.06, and I think the RAM were normal SIMMs. Mega STe's were neat, but too late, and not shipped in enough quantity (as almost everything else from Atari at that time). Alex. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 15 13:22:06 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: Computers in cars (was: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020615093620.0295cc38@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at Jun 15, 2 09:44:59 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1421 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020615/5a307fb2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 15 13:30:15 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:21 2005 Subject: IMSAI News? In-Reply-To: <3D0B4968.4030300@tiac.net> from "Bob Shannon" at Jun 15, 2 10:04:24 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1961 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020615/65485b14/attachment.ksh From spc at conman.org Sat Jun 15 13:37:16 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: HP 715/64 keyboard adaptor Message-ID: <200206151837.OAA07305@conman.org> I'm not sure if this is 10 years old or not, but given that it's not an Intel based system, I'm sure I can slide it by. My roommate just aquired an HP 715/64 but no keyboard. It doesn't take the standard HP keyboard but instead has a 10-pin connector (looks like a 10/100Base-T connector, but has 10 pins) and from searching, it looks like it requires a special keyboard adaptor to use an HP or PC keyboard. Anybody know anything about these? Where he could get one? Maybe make one? -spc (Thanks) From pcw at mesanet.com Sat Jun 15 13:55:01 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: HP 715/64 keyboard adaptor In-Reply-To: <200206151837.OAA07305@conman.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Jun 2002, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > > I'm not sure if this is 10 years old or not, but given that it's not an > Intel based system, I'm sure I can slide it by. > > My roommate just aquired an HP 715/64 but no keyboard. It doesn't take > the standard HP keyboard but instead has a 10-pin connector (looks like a > 10/100Base-T connector, but has 10 pins) and from searching, it looks like > it requires a special keyboard adaptor to use an HP or PC keyboard. Anybody > know anything about these? Where he could get one? Maybe make one? > > -spc (Thanks) > Its a basically a breakout box that separates the PS/2 KB/Mouse from the HPIL KB/Mouse connector. I have some extras if you need one... Peter Wallace From jplist at globe.net.nz Sat Jun 15 14:16:26 2002 From: jplist at globe.net.nz (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: Computers in cars (was: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Jun 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > If I ever learn to drive, I intend to use a PDP11/05 as an in-car > computer (just for monitoring functions, etc). In the back of a real Land > Rover, of course. Powering it could be 'fun', but at least with core > memory I'd not have to bother with a disk drive.... Semi-related; In Wellington, New Zealand, a large proportion of the traffic lights in the central city (A city of 450,000 people) is controlled by a PDP11/34a. This 11/34a has been in place since 1981, I believe, and since it just continually does its job, its yet to be replaced. They use a VAX of some description as a backup unit. At last count - which was maybe 3 or 4 years ago now - the unit hadn't been power cycled since '84. JP From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Fri Jun 14 15:24:16 2002 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack Message-ID: <000001c214a2$b8560da0$c4bdfea9@dreesen> > >These kits probably started my love of Philips products (OK, the modern >ones are the same cheap rubbish that everone else sells, but...). Ooh, an unsatisfied customer of my employer .... The operating word is "cheap" : those for whom price is the only guide will never find good quality. Not at Philips, nor at any other brand.... Jos From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 15 15:35:09 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <000001c214a2$b8560da0$c4bdfea9@dreesen> from "Jos Dreesen" at Jun 14, 2 10:24:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 908 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020615/8deb849e/attachment.ksh From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 15 15:40:58 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: IMSAI News? References: Message-ID: <001201c214ac$f4979360$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 12:30 PM Subject: Re: IMSAI News? > > > > Last I spoke with the people at Imsai, the machine had some major issues > > in my eyes... > > > > First, its no longer a S-100 box. (deal breaker right there)... None > > of your existing > > S-100 stuff can be used with the machine, and with no expansion bus, > > Imsai has turned > > one of the first open architecture boxes into something more like a Mac > > (super-Eeeek!). > > > > Secondly, it was going to use a ISA VGA board for video display (Eeeek, > > not ISA)! > > > I am trying to figure out how this machine is in _any_ way superior to > any of the following : > > 1) A CP/M machine with built-in video output (Epson QX10, etc). Not that > much CP/M software used anything other than a text terminal. > > 2) A random collection of S100 cards from my junk box. > > 3) A Z80 single-board development system connected to my PC's serial port. > > All of the above would seem to do what the Imsai 2 would do -- and be > easier to maintain, easier to expand, and plain more fun to use. > > Sadly, I don't think you'll find anyone on this list who believes it is. I'm not sure "superior" is an issue, however. If it were just, in some way, compatible with what it seems it pretends to be. > > > > > This last bit was really problematic becuse the Z800 cannot execute the > > VGA bios code > > in the ISA board's rom. > > Can't you get a VGA card where the registers are documented well enough > to at least put the think into a simple text/graphics mode without using > the BIOS ROM code? In other words, ignore the ROM and hit the hardware > directly from the Z80? I know I'd have tried soemthing like that if I'd > _had_ to use a VGA card with a CP/M machine... > The obvious solution, here, is to get a mono card. CP/M software didn't support graphics unless the graphics were associated with a specific display adapter anyway, so the use of a mono card, particularly one of the "short" mono cards with two serial ports and parallel port on it would probably be just the thing. Mono monitors are getting a mite scarce, however, but I still have one or two, as I suspect many others do. The mono card is well documented and does text at least as well as the best of terminals from back in the '70's. > > > > These issues were enough for me to realize that the Series-2 machines > > were not for me. > I doubt you're alone there, Tony. > > > But the idea of having a PC motherboard in there along with the Z800 > > ~could~ make for > > a very interesting teaching platform. But once you have the PC > > motherboard in there, why > > run the actual Z800 CPU at all? Emulation would probably be much faster. > > If the Z80/Z800 bus was available to the user, then the reason for > running the real hardware is obvious. But apparently it isn't.... This > seems ridiculous... > That's why I didn't make time to become involved with the Imsai-II development. I personally would have gone hog wild if he'd simply taken up the Z80C0020 and run it at full speed on a CPU card complete with peripherals (NOT Z80 peripherals!!!) that could easily be run without requiring that the CPU never run faster than the slowest of them. An SCN 2681 and a simple MSI parallel port would have worked fine, but an LSI like the 37C6-whatever-series would have worked fine with it as well. That would have handled the need for an FDC, 2 serial ports, a parallel port, and some other stuff one didn't have to use. In fact, that combo with some sort of on-board MMU hardware would quickly have made a whole and fully useable computer on a single S-100 board. Off-board I/O would simply have required one slow the CPU down whenever an off-board address was detected, which is simple enough. Using a PC keyboard and a PC mono card (normally has no ROM code required for it, aside from what's in the PC's system BIOS ROM, for which listings are readily available and easily translated) would have handled the console interface readily enough and making up a BIOS (remember, the BIOS normally is software under CP/M, not firmware) that supports these as well as an IDE HDD would have been VERY straightforward. > From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Jun 15 11:56:56 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] DEC 3000/600? In-Reply-To: <003901c21428$4e85bcb0$030aa8c0@bensene.com> Message-ID: <200206151656.g5FGuuj01002@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 14 Jun, Rick Bensene wrote: > It is a Digital Equipment 3000, Model 600. That is a nice machine. I have one too, but I can not afford to run it. It produces to much heat. (As I have some other heaters running like that 500MHz Alpha...) :-( I am afraid to say that this machine may not be 10 years old. But I am sure you will get dispense, as this thing is Cool Stuff (C) (R) (TM) and nearly 10 years old. ;-) > It's HEAVY. Of course, it's DEC. > Anyone know anything about this machine? I know evertything about it. ;-) > I haven't hooked up a console to it (it uses a > funky RJ-style connector for the console port). This connector is called MMJ, a DECism. google for pinouts... > There is an old-style Centronics SCSI connector on the back, Yes. It has two FastSCSI busses. One internal and one external. > as well as old AUI-style 10Base2 connector for Ethernet. And it should have a 10BaseT connector. You can select the Ethernet port via a console environment variable. > It also appears to have a built-in ISDN interface. Yes. > There's three slots for option cards, Yes. That are TurboChannel slots. > and one haswhat appears to be some kind of color framebuffer card This is the framebuffer, the type should be printed on the card. (Somthing like PMAGB-B) Do you have the keyboard / mouse break out cable? This cable has a SubD 15 at one end, and a little box with keyboard / mouse connectors at the other. You need a DEC LK201 / LK401 keyboard and VSXXX mouse. If you don't have it, look at the back. There is a litle switch (S3?) that you can flip to force the machine to the serial console on the MMJ connector. > with a 3-pin (RGB?) D-style connector. This connector is called 3W3 and it is RGB with sync on green. > Can anyone tell me more about this machine? Ask, if any questions left. :-) > What processor does it use? Alpha EV4 21064 175MHz. > Is it VAX-like? No. > Operating systems? VMS/Ultrix? VMS OSF/1 / DEC UNIX / Tru64 UNIX NetBSD, OpenBSD, perhaps FreeBSD _no_ Linux _no_ Ultrix If you want a free *ix, go with NetBSD. The upcoming NetBSD 1.6 release will support some of the framebuffers for console and even X11. If you happen to have a Tru64 license, try it. It is a nice, BSDish *ix that can Move Big Rocks (C) (R) (TM). If VMS is your taste, you have the perfect machine to run it. -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From pat at purdueriots.com Sat Jun 15 10:03:22 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] DEC 3000/600? In-Reply-To: <003901c21428$4e85bcb0$030aa8c0@bensene.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, Rick Bensene wrote: > Hello, > > I made a haul of various computer stuff yesterday, most of which is too > new to qualify > for the 10 year rule, but not sure if this one is or not. > > It is a Digital Equipment 3000, Model 600. > It is a desktop-style case with horizontal orientation. It's HEAVY. How many people have asked what a DEC 3000 is in the last few months? I know I did, and one or two other people... > Anyone know anything about this machine? Yes. It's a Turbochanel Alpha machine, the 175MHz Sandpiper+. Runs Digital Unix (or OSF/1 or whatever it's now called), VMS, or NetBSD. NetBSD doesn't support the LK{4|2}01 keybard, however. Linux might or might not be functional on it. Easiest way to find out info is google. NetBSD's site has info on it Aparently there's a work on getting the Alpha Linux port to work... http://www.phys.ufl.edu/~prescott/linux/alpha/dec3000-port.html The HP/Compaq specs... http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/archive/axp/dec3000_600.html More random info... http://www.psych.usyd.edu.au/pdp-11/alpha_specs.html > It powers up OK, and goes through a sequence of flashing different codes > (POST?) > on 8 LED's on the back panel. I haven't hooked up a console to it (it > uses a > funky RJ-style connector for the console port). It has a CD-ROM drive > in the of It's called MMJ. You can find out info on it by using google. > the cabinet. There is an old-style Centronics SCSI connector on the > back, as Not centronics. SCSI-I. I'm starting to feel that hangover again. :) > well as old AUI-style 10Base2 connector for Ethernet. It also appears > to have Errr AUI == DA15 connector, 10Base2 == BNC connector. Do you mean AUI or 10Base2? My 3000/600 has a 10BaseT (RJ45) connector on back as well, does yours? > a built-in ISDN interface. There's three slots for option cards, and Yup. > one haswhat appears to be some kind of color framebuffer card with a > 3-pin (RGB?) D-style connector. Standard connector for the framebuffer. Sun and IBM also use it, but IBM has a different pinout (swap red/green?). -- Pat _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Sat Jun 15 16:04:53 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: Non-DEC SCSI tape drives with VMS In-Reply-To: <200206140039.g5E0dOo20196@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <003401c214b0$4bda6a00$023ca8c0@blafleur> > ve been successful with non-DEC DAT, 8mm, and DLT drives. I just got a Seagate Python DDS-2 DAT drive, which works OK (well, VMS handles it ok, but I've been getting a lot of drive errors... Think I got sold a bill of goods on Ebay). I still haven't been able to get the HP t4000s Travan-4 drive to work, although I know that drive is fine. I think it's a hopeless cause. No big deal -- I'd rather have DAT anyway, the tapes are much cheaper. From r.stek at snet.net Sat Jun 15 16:09:43 2002 From: r.stek at snet.net (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: IMSAI News? Message-ID: <000001c214b0$f9e74c80$6501a8c0@mycroft1> Bob Shannon - Could you expand on your comments about non-s-100? According to the website, it has a 10 slot S-100 MB, and "The IMSAI SERIES TWO utilizes the powerhouse Zilog Z8S180 microprocessor and provides a complete system on an IEEE-696 compatible S-100 board" I am somewhat interested in the machine, but not if there is NO chance of using some of my other S-100 boards in it. Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From fb007b4157_2 at blueyonder.co.uk Sat Jun 15 16:46:57 2002 From: fb007b4157_2 at blueyonder.co.uk (Francis Bell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: RL01 Field Maintenance Print Set Message-ID: <3D0BB5D1.3070105@blueyonder.co.uk> I'm trying to fix a problem with an RL01 drive; the drive spins up to speed OK (the scope shows that sector pulse is within required limits), but the fault light comes on before the heads move. The FMPS available at www.mainecoon.com covers version 1 of the Drive Logic Module, however I have version 2 (part 54-13531) and the circuit layout is quite different. Does anyone have a copy of the FMPS for version 2? I need to know what causes pin 11 of the 74279 at location E6 to go low. Hopefully the printset has a comment explaining what this latch does. I have a second drive working OK on the same controller, so I believe the controller is OK. Thanks in advance. Francis ---- From meltie at myrealbox.com Sat Jun 15 16:45:18 2002 From: meltie at myrealbox.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1024177526.2417.3.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> On Sat, 2002-06-15 at 21:35, Tony Duell wrote: > I'd rather pay \pounds 2000 and get a VCR that's built like the old > VR2022 I have awaiting repair (It'd be nice if the modern VCRs had all of > the features of that beauty as well), than pay \pounds 100 and get a > plastic chassis that will last the 90 day period and not much longer. But > I can't There is no better home CD player than the Philips CD104. Period. It's as old as I am and it's still trucking. It's only ever been repaired once in its life - it's as old as I am and it's still trucking. Brilliant. > There's very little built today that I would want to buy. Period... Seconded. Alex -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 15 17:02:15 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: IMSAI News? References: <000001c214b0$f9e74c80$6501a8c0@mycroft1> Message-ID: <001001c214b8$4f2ecb80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> My initial reading (more or less my last) of the spec for the new Imsai is that the power supply is a regulated switcher that provides the "standard" voltages (though they're no longer standard) of +/- 5 and +/- 12 volts. Normal S-100 hardware had on-board regulation, hence expected to see +8 and +/- 16 on the bus. That alone would do it, I think. The fact that it's IEEE696-standard will ensure that some of your boards won't work, simply because the standard allows some bus pins to be used for either signal, ground, or a supply. If it uses it as -7 and you think you've got a clock there ... well ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Stek" To: Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 3:09 PM Subject: Re: IMSAI News? > Bob Shannon - > > Could you expand on your comments about non-s-100? According to the > website, it has a 10 slot S-100 MB, and "The IMSAI SERIES TWO utilizes > the powerhouse Zilog Z8S180 microprocessor and provides a complete > system on an IEEE-696 compatible S-100 board" > > I am somewhat interested in the machine, but not if there is NO chance > of using some of my other S-100 boards in it. > > Bob Stek > Saver of Lost Sols > > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 15 17:32:03 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <1024177526.2417.3.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> from "Alex White" at Jun 15, 2 10:45:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1142 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020615/7239fef5/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 15 17:53:09 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: RL01 Field Maintenance Print Set In-Reply-To: <3D0BB5D1.3070105@blueyonder.co.uk> from "Francis Bell" at Jun 15, 2 10:46:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2041 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020615/df2b0778/attachment.ksh From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sat Jun 15 18:09:58 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: Sioux City hamfest Message-ID: <3D0BC945.4FC9F525@ccp.com> Not much to report here, nice turnout, and a few odd items worth noting . . . . . There was a Fluke something, that looked like some sort of terminal that set up data acquisition on an IEE-488 buss. He had the complete unit and software and docs. All I remember is that the CRT had a 2:1 aspect ratio. I'm sure this will turn on some of you obscure stuff collectors. Gateway had a nominal presence there, but nothing worth noting, just some PC stuff. I did pick up a Commodore MPS-801 printer . . . are ribbons still available and for how much??? If I can't get any ribbons, I'll just contribute it to someone who wants to give it a nice home and call the dollar invested a loss. I even found one (wished there were more) AUI to 10 base T transceiver. Now I can check out my Amiga ethernet boards, if the Xcvr is okay . . . . . Two TRS80 Model 100's were there for $50, with books. I was tempted, but I passed them by. I'm sure I'll kick myself later on. One last mention, not in line with this topic, but I do have an original DEC (quantum) 240 Meg HD for trade. I have a surplus of Quantum drives, and I have used this one on my Amiga with no problems. If you want one for your DEC contact me off-list and we'll work out a trade or something interesting. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From pat at purdueriots.com Sat Jun 15 19:08:58 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: Diagnosing the Altos 8000 Message-ID: OK, I've got the system set up on my 'test bench.' The system powers up and says: ---------------------------------------------------- ALTOS COMPUTER SYSTEMS Monitor Version 5.03 Insert Floppy Disk in Drive 1 for Autoload ---------------------------------------------------- Ok, now I insert a disk into drive 1 (which has it's LED on, close the door, it comes up to speed, and then nothing happens. The drive heads do not load onto the disk liked they're supposed to. A quick check with my multimeter reveals that all the PS voltages (including +24V) are pretty close to their ratings. All the cables are seated securely, Swapping the drives fixed the problem, and it will now boot 32K Altos CP/M 2.2. Sort of a waste with 208K of RAM, but I guess I'll try to figure out how to manufacture an MP/M-II BIOS for it, and get it onto a disk. CP/M-1.4 won't boot, however. It does read OK once I've booted CP/M 2.2, so it might just be a problem with its first track (it doesn't seek at all either). Same problem with the 'CP/M diagnostics disk' Any ideas? I've got a CDC 8" SS drive I got off ebay a few months ago I might try to use to replace these drives. Does anyone know if it's possible to use four drives on the system, since the drives have a DS1-DS4? Also, is there a way to run the diagnostic programs (.DIA files on the diagnostics disk) without booting from it? Pretty soon, i'll probably be digging into some CP/M source and attempting to at least get a 64k version running on here... Thanks -- Pat From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jun 15 20:15:16 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: Non-DEC SCSI tape drives with VMS In-Reply-To: <003401c214b0$4bda6a00$023ca8c0@blafleur> from "Bob Lafleur" at Jun 15, 2002 05:04:53 PM Message-ID: <200206160115.g5G1FG028190@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I just got a Seagate Python DDS-2 DAT drive, which works OK (well, VMS > handles it ok, but I've been getting a lot of drive errors... Think I > got sold a bill of goods on Ebay). I still haven't been able to get the > HP t4000s Travan-4 drive to work, although I know that drive is fine. I > think it's a hopeless cause. No big deal -- I'd rather have DAT anyway, > the tapes are much cheaper. I prefer DLT. Right now the DLT4000 drives can be bought off eBay for $200-$250 if you watch. The tapes are a bit more expensive, but I've found the long-term reliability of the DLT tapes to be better than DAT. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From classiccmp at trailing-edge.com Sat Jun 15 21:02:48 2002 From: classiccmp at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: Massive qty's VMS Condists available Message-ID: <20020616020248.4EA9418336@mudd.trailing-edge.com> I have, in some big piles here, a couple sets of every VAX/VMS CD-ROM Condist from 1991 or so to the present day. In many cases there are three or four identical copies. I also have a lot of Ultrix (VAX + MIPS) condists up through 1998 or whenever they stopped issuing them. There are some copies of the Y2K kits too. These are mostly "Software Product Library" and "Documentation" sets, so they're largely layered products, but some of them have bootable install kits too. I want to get these kits to hobbyists (is there a Ultrix hobbyist license? Of course there's a VMS one) in as widespread a manner as possible. It'd be easy for me to dump the whole big pile on one guy, but that's not the most efficient way to distribute them, as he'd just be in the same situation that I'm currently in. I'd prefer to not be distributing copies; I want to get the original condists out to folks who want them and will actually use them. Any suggestions as to how to do this in a way that's fair to both me and the recipient? I don't want to E-bay them, but I also don't want to foot the bill myself for shipping out hundreds of these kits. Tim. From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Jun 15 21:18:49 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: Got to look at the PDP7 In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20020615090359.0098ed90@ubanproductions.com> References: <6f.2903d815.2a3c46f5@aol.com> <3.0.5.32.20020615090359.0098ed90@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <20020616021849.GH14132@mrbill.net> On Sat, Jun 15, 2002 at 09:03:59AM -0500, Tom Uban wrote: > I hope that someone will be able to save and maintain the pdp7 in a > running or runnable state. I wish that I had the time, money, and > space to do it myself... Heck, if needed, I'll contribute money just to make sure that BEAUTIFUL machine doesent make the trip to the scrapper. Wow. Tom - btw - email me offlist about that 11/70 handbook. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From geoffr at zipcon.net Sat Jun 15 21:34:19 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: IMSAI News? In-Reply-To: References: <3D0B4968.4030300@tiac.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020615193215.00a8d9d0@mail.zipcon.net> At 07:30 PM 6/15/02 +0100, you wrote: > > > > Last I spoke with the people at Imsai, the machine had some major issues > > in my eyes... > > > > First, its no longer a S-100 box. (deal breaker right there)... None > > of your existing > > S-100 stuff can be used with the machine, and with no expansion bus, > > Imsai has turned > > one of the first open architecture boxes into something more like a Mac > > (super-Eeeek!). if you look at their site, you will notice that it does support S-100 cards, it comes with 4 S100 slots, places on the board for another 4, and they say they have a 20-slot version for those that do not need the capability of hanging an IBM compatible motherboard in the case. From classiccmp at trailing-edge.com Sat Jun 15 21:56:46 2002 From: classiccmp at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: IMSAI News? In-Reply-To: <001001c214b8$4f2ecb80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 15, 2002 04:02:15 PM Message-ID: <20020616025646.89F2F18336@mudd.trailing-edge.com> > My initial reading (more or less my last) of the spec for the new Imsai is > that the power supply is a regulated switcher that provides the "standard" > voltages (though they're no longer standard) of +/- 5 and +/- 12 volts. > Normal S-100 hardware had on-board regulation, hence expected to see +8 and > +/- 16 on the bus. This isn't awfully new in the S-100/IEEE696 world; in the 80's Compupro sold a number of IEEE696 systems that distributed regulated +5V instead of unregulated ~8V, courtesy of a switching power supply. To put a "regular" S-100 board in all you had to do was jumper around its on-board voltage regulators, no big deal. Tim. From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jun 15 21:56:53 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: Does RF output equal Composite? Message-ID: OK, now that I've exposed myself as an inveterate non-gamer. If I have RF output (VHF Channel 2 or 3), can I run a composite cable into the Video In jack of my VCR and get a picture? Doc From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Jun 15 21:59:43 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: VS4000/60 and VRE01 problems Message-ID: <20020616025943.GM14132@mrbill.net> Anybody had luck hooking a VAXstation 4000/60 with "GS-2" (?) graphics adapter up to a VRE01 flatpanel? I finally got the VS4K from Doc today (thanks for dropping it off, BTW, hope that mono video cable works for you), and got around to hooking it up to the VRE a bit ago. However, all is not right - there looks to be a scan rate/resolution mismatch, and I cant find ANY dipswitches, etc, to set.. Suggestions? Links to the 4000/60 owners manual possibly? I've got pictures of the results: http://gallery.mrbill.net/view_album.php?set_albumName=vre01&page=2 Any help appreciated. I'd LOVE to get this display working.. (and the pictures show the display as yellow - its actually orange..) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From classiccmp at trailing-edge.com Sat Jun 15 22:03:04 2002 From: classiccmp at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: IMSAI News? In-Reply-To: <001201c214ac$f4979360$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 15, 2002 02:40:58 PM Message-ID: <20020616030304.DA39718336@mudd.trailing-edge.com> > > > This last bit was really problematic becuse the Z800 cannot execute the > > > VGA bios code > > > in the ISA board's rom. > > > > Can't you get a VGA card where the registers are documented well enough > > to at least put the think into a simple text/graphics mode without using > > the BIOS ROM code? In other words, ignore the ROM and hit the hardware > > directly from the Z80? I know I'd have tried soemthing like that if I'd > > _had_ to use a VGA card with a CP/M machine... > > > The obvious solution, here, is to get a mono card. CP/M software didn't > support graphics unless the graphics were associated with a specific display > adapter anyway, so the use of a mono card, particularly one of the "short" > mono cards with two serial ports and parallel port on it would probably be > just the thing. In the 80's Compupro sold a S-100 card called "PC Video" which was a IEEE696 implementation of the IBM-PC video card. That way you could run code on a Compupro S-100 8088 (or 80286) box which actually hit the video hardware directly and it would work just like a PC-clone. It is strangely relevant to the current thread that in the 80's there were manufacturers trying to make a S-100 box work like a PC-clone; today there are manufacturers trying to make a PC-clone work like a S-100 box. Both seem like unnatural acts to me. Tim. From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Jun 15 22:20:06 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: Does RF output equal Composite? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020616032006.GS14132@mrbill.net> On Sat, Jun 15, 2002 at 09:56:53PM -0500, Doc Shipley wrote: > OK, now that I've exposed myself as an inveterate non-gamer. > If I have RF output (VHF Channel 2 or 3), can I run a composite > cable into the Video In jack of my VCR and get a picture? You can do RCA (composite) *in* to the VCR, and get output *out* on the RF out... Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sat Jun 15 22:20:21 2002 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: Does RF output equal Composite? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200206160320.WAA25425@caesar.cs.umn.edu> If you mean, you want to use your VCR as a RF modulator, by feeding composite video into the video in jack, then you are correct it should work fine. Assuming the composit evideo was designed for a TV set of course. Just a matter of figuring out how to select the video in, instead of the built in tuner of the VCR. My old 2 head VCR had a manual switch to accomplish that. -Lawrence LeMay > OK, now that I've exposed myself as an inveterate non-gamer. > If I have RF output (VHF Channel 2 or 3), can I run a composite > cable into the Video In jack of my VCR and get a picture? > > Doc > From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jun 15 22:44:54 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: Does RF output equal Composite? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Jun 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > OK, now that I've exposed myself as an inveterate non-gamer. > If I have RF output (VHF Channel 2 or 3), can I run a composite > cable into the Video In jack of my VCR and get a picture? OK, I obviously wasn't as clear on the keyboard as I was in my mind. Timex Sinclair 1000 - RF output, VHF Channel 2 or 3 TV, no spade/screw VHS input VCR has composite Video In, selected by switch. I'm not getting any picture at all running a composite cable from the Timex to the VCR Video In. Do I need to make a Rat Shack run, or does the Timex have a problem? Doc From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jun 15 22:42:24 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: VS4000/60 and VRE01 problems In-Reply-To: <20020616025943.GM14132@mrbill.net> from "Bill Bradford" at Jun 15, 2002 09:59:43 PM Message-ID: <200206160342.g5G3gOU28706@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Anybody had luck hooking a VAXstation 4000/60 with "GS-2" (?) > graphics adapter up to a VRE01 flatpanel? I had the same thing happen with my VRE01 and VS4000/60. If I use the built-in video I get much better results, but still have problems once DECwindows starts up. I haven't had time to debug the problem. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 15 22:47:14 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: IMSAI News? References: <20020616025646.89F2F18336@mudd.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <001801c214e8$80f1e5a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> That's true, but CompuPro hardware of different families, though they all claimed compatibility with S-100, didn't even work in different CompuPro environments, and that wasn't just after the adoption of the standard. In fact, CompuPro/Bill Godbout was instrumental in watering down the standard to such extent that it essentially guaranteed the demise of the S-100, since it allowed for so much incompatibility that not even they could manage it. The power supply and its management was the least of your worries with their hardware. However, if your board required +/- 15, which was pretty easily regulated from the +/- 16, which was seldom limited to 16, you'd be in real trouble with the 12 volt bipolar supply. Further, I'd say, though it's not "new" nowadays, it was practiced only a short time in the life of the S-100. I think the deviation from the standard practices, not necessarily the "standard," was what led to its death, actually. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Shoppa" To: Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 8:56 PM Subject: Re: IMSAI News? > > My initial reading (more or less my last) of the spec for the new Imsai is > > that the power supply is a regulated switcher that provides the "standard" > > voltages (though they're no longer standard) of +/- 5 and +/- 12 volts. > > Normal S-100 hardware had on-board regulation, hence expected to see +8 and > > +/- 16 on the bus. > > This isn't awfully new in the S-100/IEEE696 world; in the 80's Compupro > sold a number of IEEE696 systems that distributed regulated +5V instead of > unregulated ~8V, courtesy of a switching power supply. > > To put a "regular" S-100 board in all you had to do was jumper around > its on-board voltage regulators, no big deal. > > Tim. > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 15 22:49:22 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: IMSAI News? References: <3D0B4968.4030300@tiac.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20020615193215.00a8d9d0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <001e01c214e8$cd170000$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> If you look at the spec's in detail, with an eye to what the "real" S-100 hardware required, you'd see that the Imsai-II comes up short. It wants to be something, but the decision as to what was not made before it was designed. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Reed" To: Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 8:34 PM Subject: Re: IMSAI News? > At 07:30 PM 6/15/02 +0100, you wrote: > > > > > > Last I spoke with the people at Imsai, the machine had some major issues > > > in my eyes... > > > > > > First, its no longer a S-100 box. (deal breaker right there)... None > > > of your existing > > > S-100 stuff can be used with the machine, and with no expansion bus, > > > Imsai has turned > > > one of the first open architecture boxes into something more like a Mac > > > (super-Eeeek!). > > if you look at their site, you will notice that it does support S-100 > cards, it comes with 4 S100 slots, places on the board for another 4, and > they say they have a 20-slot version for those that do not need the > capability of hanging an IBM compatible motherboard in the case. > > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 15 23:01:19 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: IMSAI News? References: <20020616030304.DA39718336@mudd.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <002801c214ea$78854d60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> While it does make sense to put a cheap short mono card or the like in an S-100 box, together with a simple interface to a PC Keyboard, which is pretty cheap, the objective being to avoid the extreme expense of a dedicated terminal, or a PC used as one, I find the whole business of making a PC live on the S-100 silly, since a PC can simulate a CP/M environment at 50-100x the speed of the original with no trouble at all. If you have to hack the working original gear just to run it in the new box, I doubt it's worth it. More below ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Shoppa" To: Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 9:03 PM Subject: Re: IMSAI News? > > > > This last bit was really problematic becuse the Z800 cannot execute the > > > > VGA bios code > > > > in the ISA board's rom. > > > > > > Can't you get a VGA card where the registers are documented well enough > > > to at least put the think into a simple text/graphics mode without using > > > the BIOS ROM code? In other words, ignore the ROM and hit the hardware > > > directly from the Z80? I know I'd have tried soemthing like that if I'd > > > _had_ to use a VGA card with a CP/M machine... > > > If you did that for every operation that required it, you'd be looking at a 1 Hz PC. The Z80 is probably a mite faster than the old 4.77 MHz 8088, but it would have to go some to match the already slow speed of the 6 MHz PC/AT in operations like running a VGA. > > > The obvious solution, here, is to get a mono card. CP/M software didn't > > support graphics unless the graphics were associated with a specific display > > adapter anyway, so the use of a mono card, particularly one of the "short" > > mono cards with two serial ports and parallel port on it would probably be > > just the thing. > > In the 80's Compupro sold a S-100 card called "PC Video" which was a > IEEE696 implementation of the IBM-PC video card. That way you could run > code on a Compupro S-100 8088 (or 80286) box which actually hit the > video hardware directly and it would work just like a PC-clone. > Unfortunately, the S-100 attempts to emulate the functions of a PC were sadly inadequate and actually cost a mite more than the same hardware on a PC. The stuff that worked "just like a PC-Clone" didn't work as fast, since the business of generating timing adequate to the task ran the S-100 at speeds considerably slower than the PC/AT. The one useful thing that the '696 standard could have done for us was to relieve us of the burden of having to generate the i8080 signals that were initially put on the bus by folks not intending to make a "real" computer out of the system. They still left in the old phase-1 clock and Sync, together with those stupid, and in some cases, redundant, status signals that simply allowed the slipshod designer to do things wrong in a wider range of ways. Once the 8080 was no longer a player, they should probably have gone with a signal subset that looked more like the signals on the Multibus-I, which, BTW, looked a lot like the ISA in several meaningful ways. > > It is strangely relevant to the current thread that in the 80's there > were manufacturers trying to make a S-100 box work like a PC-clone; today > there are manufacturers trying to make a PC-clone work like a S-100 box. > Both seem like unnatural acts to me. > They were just attempts to get between a fool and his sheckels ... From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jun 15 23:07:48 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Jun 2002, Doc wrote: > > OK, now that I've exposed myself as an inveterate non-gamer. > > If I have RF output (VHF Channel 2 or 3), can I run a composite > > cable into the Video In jack of my VCR and get a picture? > OK, I obviously wasn't as clear on the keyboard as I was in my mind. > Timex Sinclair 1000 - RF output, VHF Channel 2 or 3 > TV, no spade/screw VHS input How is your VCR connected to the TV? Although that CAN (and should) be done with composite, it is usually RF on 3 or 4. > VCR has composite Video In, selected by switch. > I'm not getting any picture at all running a composite cable from the > Timex to the VCR Video In. Do I need to make a Rat Shack run, or does > the Timex have a problem? That is because you are taking channel 2 or 3 and connecting it after the tuner. Connect the channel 2 or 3 to the RF IN of the VCR (where the antenna or cable connects)! From geoffr at zipcon.net Sat Jun 15 23:28:31 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: Does RF output equal Composite? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020615212733.024808b0@mail.zipcon.net> No, Composite != RF RF ihnput is modulated to TV frequencies, channel 3 or 4, composite is a composite color/sync signal on 1 wire (with ground) At 10:44 PM 6/15/02 -0500, you wrote: >On Sat, 15 Jun 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > > > OK, now that I've exposed myself as an inveterate non-gamer. > > If I have RF output (VHF Channel 2 or 3), can I run a composite > > cable into the Video In jack of my VCR and get a picture? > > OK, I obviously wasn't as clear on the keyboard as I was in my mind. > > Timex Sinclair 1000 - RF output, VHF Channel 2 or 3 > TV, no spade/screw VHS input > VCR has composite Video In, selected by switch. > > I'm not getting any picture at all running a composite cable from the >Timex to the VCR Video In. Do I need to make a Rat Shack run, or does >the Timex have a problem? > > Doc From donm at cts.com Sat Jun 15 23:13:11 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: TI99/4A and C=Vic20 Message-ID: Ran across one each of these at a local thrift. Each in original box, though they have seen some "miles". The TI is a beige case and looks pretty clean. The Vic20 comes with the cassette drive and both look like they need a bath. If anyone is interested in either/both, email me off list and I'll confirm their availability and price and try to estimate shipping costs. If they have a bathroom scale there, I can probably come fairly close on shipping costs given the target Zip code. - don From fernande at internet1.net Sat Jun 15 23:11:09 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: Computers in cars (was: I hate Radio Shack References: Message-ID: <3D0C0FDD.5010700@internet1.net> Tony Duell wrote: > If I ever learn to drive, I intend to use a PDP11/05 as an in-car > computer (just for monitoring functions, etc). In the back of a real Land > Rover, of course. Powering it could be 'fun', but at least with core > memory I'd not have to bother with a disk drive.... You don't drive??? How do you get around, pick up parts/computers/groceries, etc? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jun 15 23:14:09 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: VS4000/60 and VRE01 problems In-Reply-To: <200206160342.g5G3gOU28706@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Jun 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > Anybody had luck hooking a VAXstation 4000/60 with "GS-2" (?) > > graphics adapter up to a VRE01 flatpanel? > > I had the same thing happen with my VRE01 and VS4000/60. If > I use the built-in video I get much better results, but still > have problems once DECwindows starts up. I haven't had time > to debug the problem. Bah! So I guess that means you'll want that mono cable back, huh, Bill? :^) Doc From mythtech at mac.com Sat Jun 15 23:23:29 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: Does RF output equal Composite? Message-ID: > OK, I obviously wasn't as clear on the keyboard as I was in my mind. > > Timex Sinclair 1000 - RF output, VHF Channel 2 or 3 > TV, no spade/screw VHS input > VCR has composite Video In, selected by switch. > > I'm not getting any picture at all running a composite cable from the >Timex to the VCR Video In. Do I need to make a Rat Shack run, or does >the Timex have a problem? You can't tie a modulated RF signal to a Composite RCA video jack. Your VCR doesn't have an RF antenna in? (or is that just in use at the moment). Rat Shack won't have a demodulator (go from RF to line composite), but they will have A/B switch boxes and baluns (if the timex has a 300 Ohm two wire lead and you need to go to a F connector). With that you can share an in use RF Input on the VCR with some other source. -chris From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jun 15 23:27:20 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Jun 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Sat, 15 Jun 2002, Doc wrote: > > > OK, now that I've exposed myself as an inveterate non-gamer. > > > If I have RF output (VHF Channel 2 or 3), can I run a composite > > > cable into the Video In jack of my VCR and get a picture? > > OK, I obviously wasn't as clear on the keyboard as I was in my mind. > > Timex Sinclair 1000 - RF output, VHF Channel 2 or 3 > > TV, no spade/screw VHS input > > How is your VCR connected to the TV? Although that CAN (and should) be > done with composite, it is usually RF on 3 or 4. Older TV, the only input is a cable connector. > > VCR has composite Video In, selected by switch. > > I'm not getting any picture at all running a composite cable from the > > Timex to the VCR Video In. Do I need to make a Rat Shack run, or does > > the Timex have a problem? > > That is because you are taking channel 2 or 3 and connecting it after the > tuner. Connect the channel 2 or 3 to the RF IN of the VCR (where the > antenna or cable connects)! Can't do it. VCR only accepts cable on RF In, and all I have to convert the Timex' output is an old video-game input switch with spade & screw output. Looks like a Radio Shack run tomorrow, so let me make certain I know what I need. Sounds like something that will switch between CATV input and the RF Channel 2 input from the Timex? I might see if Goodwill has a $5 B&W TV instead.... Doc From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jun 15 23:45:42 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Jun 2002, Doc wrote: > Older TV, the only input is a cable connector. That's what you need to connect the "channel 2 or 3" to. Then tune the TV to channel 2 or 3. Sounds like you have a "motorola" connector from the Timex and an F connector on the TV. Radio shack used to carry those adapters. The confusion is because "motorola" connectors are also the CONNECTOR that is used for composite, as well as what some games used for RF. Connect the correct signal, not just matching connector. > > tuner. Connect the channel 2 or 3 to the RF IN of the VCR (where the > > antenna or cable connects)! > Can't do it. VCR only accepts cable on RF In, and all I have to > convert the Timex' output is an old video-game input switch with spade & > screw output. Then you need an adapter from the Timex connector (prob'ly "motorola") to "F" connector. > Looks like a Radio Shack run tomorrow, so let me make certain I know > what I need. Sounds like something that will switch between CATV input > and the RF Channel 2 input from the Timex? I might see if Goodwill has > a $5 B&W TV instead.... Cable and Timex are the same for channels 2 through 13 (It's called "VHS"). Connect the Timex and tune the TV or VCR to channel 2 or 3. From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Jun 15 23:51:12 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: VS4000/60 and VRE01 problems In-Reply-To: <200206160342.g5G3gOU28706@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <20020616025943.GM14132@mrbill.net> <200206160342.g5G3gOU28706@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <20020616045112.GB4760@mrbill.net> On Sat, Jun 15, 2002 at 10:42:24PM -0500, Eric Dittman wrote: > I had the same thing happen with my VRE01 and VS4000/60. If > I use the built-in video I get much better results, but still > have problems once DECwindows starts up. I haven't had time > to debug the problem. arrgh, and I gave my built-in-video cable to Doc.! 8-( Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Jun 15 23:51:28 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: VS4000/60 and VRE01 problems In-Reply-To: References: <200206160342.g5G3gOU28706@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <20020616045128.GC4760@mrbill.net> On Sat, Jun 15, 2002 at 11:14:09PM -0500, Doc wrote: > Bah! So I guess that means you'll want that mono cable back, huh, > Bill? :^) Yeah, or just help me find another... Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Jun 15 23:52:20 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020616045220.GD4760@mrbill.net> On Sat, Jun 15, 2002 at 11:27:20PM -0500, Doc wrote: > Looks like a Radio Shack run tomorrow, so let me make certain I know > what I need. Sounds like something that will switch between CATV input > and the RF Channel 2 input from the Timex? I might see if Goodwill has > a $5 B&W TV instead.... btw if you need or know of anybody else here in town that does, I have an Amiga 1080 color composite monitor w/sound taking up space.. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From mythtech at mac.com Sun Jun 16 00:03:40 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! Message-ID: > Can't do it. VCR only accepts cable on RF In, and all I have to >convert the Timex' output is an old video-game input switch with spade & >screw output. > > Looks like a Radio Shack run tomorrow, so let me make certain I know >what I need. Sounds like something that will switch between CATV input >and the RF Channel 2 input from the Timex? I might see if Goodwill has >a $5 B&W TV instead.... What you can use is a "Balun". Its a little adaptor that takes the 300 Ohm spade and screw type connector, and converts it to a 75 Ohm F connector. Figure about $2 for a balun. They make them in both directions (screw to F and F to screw) so if your switch only has screw type connectors on both sides, you can get one for each side to connect it inline with the antenna in on your TV. Also, Rat Shack, I believe sells a newer version of that video game switch. One that will auto switch, and take either the spade and screw input, or F connector, and will output to an F connector (the F connector is the standard US screw on cable TV coax connector). However, that will likely cost you more than a $5 TV. (probably about $20 for the auto switch game adaptor). -chris From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jun 16 00:08:15 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! In-Reply-To: <20020616045220.GD4760@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Jun 2002, Bill Bradford wrote: > > Looks like a Radio Shack run tomorrow, so let me make certain I know > > what I need. Sounds like something that will switch between CATV input > > and the RF Channel 2 input from the Timex? I might see if Goodwill has > > a $5 B&W TV instead.... > > btw if you need or know of anybody else here in town that does, I have an > Amiga 1080 color composite monitor w/sound taking up space.. Those are very nice. But it will NOT work for a device that only outputs RF. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Jun 16 00:28:33 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: TI99/4A and C=Vic20 In-Reply-To: from Don Maslin at "Jun 15, 2 09:13:11 pm" Message-ID: <200206160528.WAA08320@stockholm.ptloma.edu> I hit 'send' too early -- I'm back home in La Mesa right now for the weekend, so I could do pick up tomorrow and save you and I shipping inconvenience, if it's still available and that works okay for you. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- If at first you don't succeed, don't go skydiving. ------------------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Jun 16 00:29:51 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: TI99/4A and C=Vic20 In-Reply-To: from Don Maslin at "Jun 15, 2 09:13:11 pm" Message-ID: <200206160529.WAA27032@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Whoops, that was meant for private mail. Sorry. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "I'd love to go out with you, but I need to clean my toilet brush." -------- From Gordo61 at aol.com Sat Jun 15 16:08:56 2002 From: Gordo61 at aol.com (Gordo61@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:22 2005 Subject: %20ECL%20Logic%20%20-%20not%20ten%20yeas%20old? Message-ID: <109.13f803b8.2a3d06e8@aol.com> Like to find out more about this (old) message about surplus 95H90's gordo61@aol.com From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jun 15 19:01:15 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] IRIX questions... In-Reply-To: <003401c214b0$4bda6a00$023ca8c0@blafleur> References: <003401c214b0$4bda6a00$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: So as not to start what may be an OT thread, would anyone who would care to answer a few questions regarding SGI IRIX, specifically 6.2, drop me a note offlist? Thanks. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Jun 15 21:16:50 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: VS4000/60 and VRE01 problems Message-ID: <20020616021649.GG14132@mrbill.net> Anybody had luck hooking a VAXstation 4000/60 with "GS-2" (?) graphics adapter up to a VRE01 flatpanel? I finally got the VS4K from Doc today (thanks for dropping it off, BTW, hope that mono video cable works for you), and got around to hooking it up to the VRE a bit ago. However, all is not right - there looks to be a scan rate/resolution mismatch, and I cant find ANY dipswitches, etc, to set.. Suggestions? Links to the 4000/60 owners manual possibly? I've got pictures of the results: http://gallery.mrbill.net/view_album.php?set_albumName=vre01&page=2 Any help appreciated. I'd LOVE to get this display working.. (and the pictures show the display as yellow - its actually orange..) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From mrbill at mrbill.net Sun Jun 16 00:52:34 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: Does RF output equal Composite? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020616055234.GM4760@mrbill.net> On Sat, Jun 15, 2002 at 10:44:54PM -0500, Doc wrote: > OK, I obviously wasn't as clear on the keyboard as I was in my mind. > Timex Sinclair 1000 - RF output, VHF Channel 2 or 3 > TV, no spade/screw VHS input Get a $1 spade-screw-to-coax adapter at radio shack? Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jun 16 01:10:10 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: Does RF output equal Composite? In-Reply-To: <20020616055234.GM4760@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Bill Bradford wrote: > On Sat, Jun 15, 2002 at 10:44:54PM -0500, Doc wrote: > > OK, I obviously wasn't as clear on the keyboard as I was in my mind. > > Timex Sinclair 1000 - RF output, VHF Channel 2 or 3 > > TV, no spade/screw VHS input > > Get a $1 spade-screw-to-coax adapter at radio shack? Yeah, that. I'll go get a continuity tester in the morning & dupe that VAX cable, so you can have yours back. My ohmmeter died 2 months ago and I just keep borrowing my neighbor's. Doc From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Jun 16 03:34:38 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack References: Message-ID: <002901c21510$a7c28b80$0100000a@deepspacenine> "Tony Duell" said: > > On Sat, 2002-06-15 at 21:35, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > I'd rather pay \pounds 2000 and get a VCR that's built like the old > > > VR2022 I have awaiting repair (It'd be nice if the modern VCRs had all of > > > the features of that beauty as well), than pay \pounds 100 and get a > > > plastic chassis that will last the 90 day period and not much longer. But > > > I can't > > There is no better home CD player than the Philips CD104. Period. It's > > I'm not sure I agree with that. Linn make some pretty nice CD players... > However, I am sure you can guess what my next comment is going to be. > Yes, I have the CD104 service manual.... You seem to have nearly every service manual or schematic sheet known to man... I'm still looking for a manual set for my Gould OS1100A oscilloscope... > > as old as I am and it's still trucking. It's only ever been repaired > > once in its life - it's as old as I am and it's still trucking. > The only thing that ever seems to go wrong with CD104s is dry joints on > the through-board links on the decoder board. Take the board out, solder > the links (especially on the ground plane side), put it back together. *sigh* Mass produced electronic equipment always seems to have at least one dry joint on at least one board... If I had a service manual for my scope, I'd probably have it fixed in a few hours... From what I've seen of it with the cover loosened, it's a complete ratsnest in there... Anyone got a Gould OS1100 or OS1100A Service Manual? What about a User's Manual? Gould service docs seem to be like gold dust. Gould no longer have copies and the only company I know who has a copy wants ?80 for it - and that's a photocopy (!) > No, I tell a lie. I have seen one other fault. An open zener diode in the > PSU that caused the display to go blank. But that's very uncommon. What about dry electrolytics? They seem to go pretty often... The high temperature electrolytics seem to last a fair while, though. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 16 06:09:49 2002 From: ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk (Greg Elkin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: Massive qty's VMS Condists available In-Reply-To: <20020616020248.4EA9418336@mudd.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <3D0C800D.22066.3D5A758@localhost> Looking at the condist set I have here (VAXBINMAY93x) there's these words on each CD : "posession, use, duplication or dissemination of the software and media is authorized only pursuant to a valid written license from Digital" So unless the OpenVMS hobbyist license allows me, I shouldn't even *have* these disks? Let alone be allowed to make copies as needed for people who want them? I was thinking of saying that I could take a complete set of the VMS & Ultrix Condists from Tim & copy them for any UK people as required, but am unsure of the legality of doing so... thanks, greg From classiccmp at trailing-edge.com Sun Jun 16 06:09:50 2002 From: classiccmp at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: IMSAI News? In-Reply-To: <001801c214e8$80f1e5a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 15, 2002 09:47:14 PM Message-ID: <20020616110950.A0AF118336@mudd.trailing-edge.com> > The power supply and its management was the least of your worries with their > hardware. However, if your board required +/- 15, which was pretty easily > regulated from the +/- 16, which was seldom limited to 16, you'd be in real > trouble with the 12 volt bipolar supply. > > Further, I'd say, though it's not "new" nowadays, it was practiced only a > short time in the life of the S-100. I think the deviation from the standard > practices, not necessarily the "standard," was what led to its death, > actually. If I was going to do it today, I'd stick with the ~8V unregulated bus and use a small buck switching regulator on each card. You get all the efficiency of a switcher, and compatibility with older stuff. With "Simple Switchers" from NatSemi (or equivalent from Motorola/Onsemi/ TI etc.) it's very easy to do. What's really good is that many of the electronics distributors which let their inductor selection whither away over the years now have excellent selections of inductors - some of which they keep in stock! :-) Tim. From dave at naffnet.org.uk Sun Jun 16 06:17:05 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: Massive qty's VMS Condists available References: <3D0C800D.22066.3D5A758@localhost> Message-ID: <3D0C73B1.5B85F925@naffnet.org.uk> Greg Elkin wrote: > Looking at the condist set I have here (VAXBINMAY93x) there's these words on > each CD : > "posession, use, duplication or dissemination of the software and media is > authorized only pursuant to a valid written license from Digital" > > So unless the OpenVMS hobbyist license allows me, I shouldn't even *have* > these disks? > Let alone be allowed to make copies as needed for people who want them? > > I was thinking of saying that I could take a complete set of the VMS & Ultrix > Condists from Tim & copy them for any UK people as required, but am unsure of > the legality of doing so... > > thanks, > greg As I understand it, the Hobbyist program layered products license constitutes a valid license (when you register you are even presented with a printable version of the license agreement that you can print and sign if you wish). Therefore, you are allowed to have the consdist. As for the copying part, I really don't know. I, too. would be prepared to copy for people, but... Dave. From rumi_ml at rtfm.hu Sun Jun 16 09:46:51 2002 From: rumi_ml at rtfm.hu (Rumi Szabolcs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: VS4000/90 documentation wanted Message-ID: <200206161546510211.095445E4@mail.local> Hello! I'm searching for VS4K Model 90 docs, in BookReader, PS, PDF, scanned images, or whatever electronic format. especially wanted: EK-KA490-SV (service manual) EK-VAXOG-DK (doc kit) Thank you in advance, Rumi - From foo at siconic.com Sun Jun 16 09:18:58 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: IMSAI News? In-Reply-To: <20020616110950.A0AF118336@mudd.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Tim Shoppa wrote: > If I was going to do it today, I'd stick with the ~8V unregulated bus and > use a small buck switching regulator on each card. You get all the efficiency > of a switcher, and compatibility with older stuff. Why not stick a SPDT switch on each slot on the bus to switch between the regulated vs. unregulated supply for each slot? Of course you'd then have to somehow supply the unregulated voltages. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sun Jun 16 09:21:09 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This has always been an area of confusion for me. Can someone recommend a good reading that will explain video as far as composite vs. RF and modulation and all that? Would Don Lancaster's Video Cookbook have what I want? Web articles would be preferred. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Sun Jun 16 09:42:16 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: One SCSI tape connected to 2 hosts? Message-ID: <000001c21544$02e64500$023ca8c0@blafleur> I've noticed that my MV3100's SCSI host ID's are set to 6 - I thought this odd, as host ID's are usually 7. Are all MV3100's set to 6, or is mine unique? Anyway, I thought since my PC's host ID is 7, I could connect my SCSI tape drive to both systems. So I ran a cable from one connector on the back to my PC, and a cable from the other connector to my MV3100. I figure it's a properly terminated chain, as each host controller is terminated (I know the PC is, I assume the MV3100 is). It *seems* to work OK. But can anyone tell me for sure if this is "legal"? I'm sure I'm looking for trouble if I try to use the same tape drive from both systems at the same time, but as long as I don't do that, is this an okay setup? It would sure beat changing cables every time I want to move the tape drive from one system to the other. - Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020616/605bc997/attachment.html From meltie at myrealbox.com Sun Jun 16 09:55:58 2002 From: meltie at myrealbox.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1024239361.2737.10.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> On Sun, 2002-06-16 at 15:21, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > This has always been an area of confusion for me. Can someone recommend a > good reading that will explain video as far as composite vs. RF and > modulation and all that? I can't provide a weblink, but i'll explain it as how I think of it. Composite video carries a video signal much the same as a speaker wire carries sound. upper and lower voltage leves are set to correspond to full brightness and full darkness. There is a level outside this range called "blacker than black" which is used to indicate a frame sync or line sync pulse (i'm sorry but I cannot remember the levels at this point in time - IIRC whit is about 4v black is around 0.7v, blacker than black is lower than this. (please correct me nicely)) RF is the modulation of this onto a radio signal in the same way that the sound output from a radio station is modulated onto onto a radio signal - they are just at different frequencies. Modulation is the act of using a low-frequency signal (the video or sound input) to modulate a much higher carrier frequency. There are two major types of modulation - AM and FM. In AM the input frequency modulates the amplitude of the carrier wave - an spike on the input signal would make the carrier frequency appear 'louder' to the reciever. In FM the input wave shifts the frequency of the carrier wave slightly. In both cases if it were humanly possible to listen to the modulated signal (audio or video) it would be garbage - either a single tone that would wobble in amplitude or vary slightly in frequency. In each case the modulated signal needs demodulating or decoding to reproduce the input signal. *runs and hides under a rock* i'll shut up now, promise. Alex -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sun Jun 16 10:04:02 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! References: Message-ID: <3D0CA8E2.9C8B182D@ccp.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > > This has always been an area of confusion for me. Can someone recommend a > good reading that will explain video as far as composite vs. RF and > modulation and all that? > > Would Don Lancaster's Video Cookbook have what I want? > > Web articles would be preferred. > > Sellam Ismail Okay, composite video is the complex waveform that defines NTSC as found in any television station. It includes horizontal & vertical sync pluses, and if it is color, it also has a burst flag and subcarrier information that is a phase modulated 3.579545 signal, all interwoven. YOu can easily see this on any good oscilloscope. Bandwidth is usually about a few cycles to about 4 mHz, sometimes higher. This is usually fed through 75 ohm coax and BNC connectors (really old stuff uses UHF/PL259s). Consumer home gear uses RCA/phono connectors as a rule, although other connectors are sometimes used. The RF modulated signal is a carrier signal on a standard TV channel, usually Chs 2-4, that has the video modulating it AM style, and the audio sound is FM modulated 4.5 mHz higher in frequency. Commercial TV uses vestigial sideband transmission, where the lower sideband is partially removed with filtering and amplifier tuning to conserve bandwith. The common RF modulators used with game consoles, etc. does not have this filtering, but relys on the tv set to filter that out in the front end. In rare cases it can affect the signal/picture quality. RF also is fed through 75 ohm coax, but 300 ohm twinlead used to be the norm. F connectors are as a rule used for anything RF, but phono connectors are quite often used as they are in stock and cheap as well. Hope that clears up any questions out there. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From hansp at aconit.org Sun Jun 16 10:53:36 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: IMSAI News? References: Message-ID: <3D0CB480.90002@aconit.org> Sellam Ismail wrote: > Why not stick a SPDT switch on each slot on the bus to switch between the > regulated vs. unregulated supply for each slot? Of course you'd then have > to somehow supply the unregulated voltages. Go one better. Make the switch a small pushbutton and have some mechanical protusion on the modern cards push the switch to select the regulated supply. Old card would not have the protrusion and would receive unregulated volts. -- hbp From dave at naffnet.org.uk Sun Jun 16 11:20:15 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! References: <3D0CA8E2.9C8B182D@ccp.com> Message-ID: <3D0CBABF.25FBC52E@naffnet.org.uk> Gary Hildebrand wrote: > > Okay, composite video is the complex waveform that defines NTSC as found > in any television station. [ ... ] Except, of course, in those large parts of the world that use PAL, and other parts that use SECAM, and.... Dave. From classiccmp at trailing-edge.com Sun Jun 16 12:07:09 2002 From: classiccmp at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: Massive qty's VMS Condists available In-Reply-To: <3D0C800D.22066.3D5A758@localhost> from "Greg Elkin" at Jun 16, 2002 12:09:49 PM Message-ID: <20020616170709.3601118336@mudd.trailing-edge.com> > I was thinking of saying that I could take a complete set of the VMS & Ultrix > Condists from Tim & copy them for any UK people as required, but am unsure of > the legality of doing so... That might save on shipping, but there is *no* shortage of random Condists here. If everyone insists on the latest and greatest, then there is a quantity problem, in that I only get rid of a few sets and am stuck with hundreds of Condists that nobody wants :-) Tim. From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sun Jun 16 12:23:11 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! References: <3D0CA8E2.9C8B182D@ccp.com> <3D0CBABF.25FBC52E@naffnet.org.uk> Message-ID: <3D0CC97F.4AB9BA32@gifford.co.uk> Dave Woodman wrote: > Gary Hildebrand wrote: > > Okay, composite video is the complex waveform that defines NTSC as found > > in any television station. [ ... ] > > Except, of course, in those large parts of the world that use PAL, and other > parts that use SECAM, and.... Thanks for pointing that out! Just to add a bit of technical info, in the PAL-I system, as used in the UK, the composite video is inverted before being amplitude modulated onto the carrier. That means that the sync pules are peaks of high-amplitude radio signal and bright areas of the image are low-amplitude signals. The reason for this is to reduce the average RF power required at the transmitter. Quite a clever idea, really. Our sound sub-carrier is at 6MHz from the main vision carrier, FM modulated. The PAL colour subcarrier is at about 4.43Mhz. The radio channels used for broadcast TV are in the UHF band, and typical 1980s modulators were tuned to Channel 36. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From classiccmp at trailing-edge.com Sun Jun 16 12:28:07 2002 From: classiccmp at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jun 16, 2002 07:21:09 AM Message-ID: <20020616172807.A665A18336@mudd.trailing-edge.com> > This has always been an area of confusion for me. Can someone recommend a > good reading that will explain video as far as composite vs. RF and > modulation and all that? > > Would Don Lancaster's Video Cookbook have what I want? His "Cheap Video Cookbook" and "TV Typewriter Cookbook" are gems, and yes probably have what you want. There are even diagrams showing you how you can take a mid-70's B&W TV and inject a composite signal after the video detector, with all sorts of warnings about doing this on TV's that have live 120VAC on the chassis :-) A similar treasure from the 70's is Heiserman's _How To Design and Build Your Own Custom TV Games_. It's a remarkable book in that it shows how to do video games with nothing other than TTL logic and some 555's. Of course, by the time it was published cheap microprocessors had spelled the end to hardwired video games. With FPGA's and CPLD's so readily available today maybe it's time to resurrect the technique? A quick search on Amazon shows that all the above-mentioned books are available used there. I often see them at local library sales, too. One Lancaster book that I've never seen is "Son of Cheap Video". Any comments on it? Tim. From dave at naffnet.org.uk Sun Jun 16 12:44:54 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! References: <3D0CA8E2.9C8B182D@ccp.com> <3D0CBABF.25FBC52E@naffnet.org.uk> <3D0CC97F.4AB9BA32@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <3D0CCE96.5DAA2782@naffnet.org.uk> John Honniball wrote: > Dave Woodman wrote: > > > > Except, of course, in those large parts of the world that use PAL, and other > > parts that use SECAM, and.... > > Thanks for pointing that out! You're welcome! > > > Just to add a bit of technical info, in the PAL-I system, as used > in the UK, the composite video is inverted before being amplitude > modulated onto the carrier. That means that the sync pules are > peaks of high-amplitude radio signal and bright areas of the > image are low-amplitude signals. The reason for this is to > reduce the average RF power required at the transmitter. Quite > a clever idea, really. There is also another benefit:- any impulse noise that interferes with the video results in a white pin-point on the picture, as oppose to a black blob (especially when the HT is poorly regulated...). > > > Our sound sub-carrier is at 6MHz from the main vision carrier, > FM modulated. The PAL colour subcarrier is at about 4.43Mhz. Let's not forget the 'PAL' bit:- the chrominance information is presented with its phase inverted on alternate lines. This is then used to correct any phase errors in the signal (the reason that NTSC is often called Never Twice Same Colour is because, uncorrected, this distorts the colour information). The net result is that colours are stable, but cannot ever be completely saturated, a small price to pay for stable colours and not needing a hardware patch - the 'hue' control. The mechanism that was used in early TV sets to achieve the correction was rather interesting:- the set contained a glass block, with an ultrasonic transducer at each end (one sending, the other? well, no prizes for guessing!). The delay in the block was one transmitted line so the output could be directly compared with the following line. Ah, the wonders of old technology... Cheers, Dave. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jun 16 13:01:06 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! In-Reply-To: <3D0CCE96.5DAA2782@naffnet.org.uk> Message-ID: > > > Except, of course, in those large parts of the world that use PAL, and other > > > parts that use SECAM, and.... On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Dave Woodman wrote: > to correct any phase errors in the signal (the reason that NTSC is > often called Never Twice Same Colour is because, uncorrected, > this distorts the colour information). > The net result is that colours are stable, but cannot ever be > completely saturated, a small price to pay for stable colours and not > needing a hardware patch - the 'hue' control. OK, if "NTSC" = "Never Twice the Same Color" and "PAL" = "Picture always Lousy" then what is "SECAM"? From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Jun 16 13:08:04 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! In-Reply-To: References: <3D0CCE96.5DAA2782@naffnet.org.uk> Message-ID: <32826.64.169.63.74.1024250884.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > OK, > if "NTSC" = "Never Twice the Same Color" > and "PAL" = "Picture always Lousy" > > then what is "SECAM"? System Entirely Contrary to American Method From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Jun 16 13:45:14 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <200206090825.JAA11900@citadel.metropolis.local> References: <3D02CB08.3C88EE3B@ccp.com> <200206090825.JAA11900@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <20020616184513.GA4747@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Stan Barr, from writings of Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 09:25:25AM +0100: > At least here in the UK some people are making a positive effort to > encourage youngsters to build radio equipment from scratch or from kits, > we have a number of kit suppliers. No-one seems to be doing much on the > digital front though. Schools could do more, I think, because if you ^^^^^^^ That's most unlikely, if you're referring to those outrageously expensive taxpayer-funded child processing plants where the "students" are taught to be conformists who value team sports (duh, footbawl! rah, rah, rah!) above activities requiring thinking, are indoctrinated with political correctness and are taught to despise intellectual endeavors. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Jun 16 13:57:23 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020616185723.GB4747@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 01:30:16AM +0100: [quoting ?] > > You basically hit at the heart of the matter. The reality is that US > > society on the whole does not do hacking at a hardware level anymore Alas, that's very true; few people seen interested in building or repairing things, they just want to "buy new" (which is often cheap, or expensive, rubbish). > It's certainly true in the UK. Almost nobody makes _anything_ any more. > If you do, you're eccentric.... Of course, eccentricity is a good thing... > > Over the past two decades, we have gone from a nation of builders to a > > nation of users. We throw away perfectly good items because perhaps a cap > > blew or whatever it is was "just too old". This is the work of Capitalism > > You may be happy with this, I most certainly am not... No rational, intelligent, person would be happy with that. It's the work of greed, sloth and aversity to intellectial activities. > > and Marketing. It used to be that we encouraged people to learn and do. > > This worries me. It worries me a lot. People should be encouraged to > learn. If nobody understands the current stuff properly, who is going to > ever improve it, for example? A few years ago, I heard a school teacher exclaim "I'm not an intellectual." > Any suggestions as to how these trends can be reversed? For a start, let's send idiot-boy Bush to China in exchange for what's left of the old computers that we've sent over there as scrap. On second thought, the Chinese would consider that an unfair trade and reject it. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sun Jun 16 13:18:16 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 16 Jun 2002 11:01:06 PDT." Message-ID: <200206161818.TAA27490@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" said: > OK, > if "NTSC" = "Never Twice the Same Color" > and "PAL" = "Picture always Lousy" > > then what is "SECAM"? SEquential Couleur a Memoire or System Essentially Contrary to American Method ;-) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sun Jun 16 13:15:01 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 16 Jun 2002 18:44:54 BST." <3D0CCE96.5DAA2782@naffnet.org.uk> Message-ID: <200206161815.TAA27436@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Dave Woodman said: > John Honniball wrote: > > > Dave Woodman wrote: > > > > > > Except, of course, in those large parts of the world that use PAL, and other > > > parts that use SECAM, and.... > > > > Thanks for pointing that out! > > You're welcome! > > > > > > > Just to add a bit of technical info, in the PAL-I system, as used > > in the UK, the composite video is inverted before being amplitude > > modulated onto the carrier. That means that the sync pules are > > peaks of high-amplitude radio signal and bright areas of the > > image are low-amplitude signals. The reason for this is to > > reduce the average RF power required at the transmitter. Quite > > a clever idea, really. > > There is also another benefit:- any impulse noise that interferes with > the video results in a white pin-point on the picture, as oppose to a black > blob (especially when the HT is poorly regulated...). > The other way about ;-) Interference on PAL produces unobtrusive black blobs as opposed to annoying "snow". -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 16 13:59:54 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: Does RF output equal Composite? Message-ID: <20020616190228.PPCI28464.imf15bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Hey Doc -- > From: Doc > Timex Sinclair 1000 - RF output, VHF Channel 2 or 3 > TV, no spade/screw VHS input > VCR has composite Video In, selected by switch. > > I'm not getting any picture at all running a composite cable from the > Timex to the VCR Video In. Do I need to make a Rat Shack run, or does > the Timex have a problem? You can easily tap off the composite video from the wires leading from the pcb to the RF modulator. If you'd like to buffer the signal, I can send you a small TIFF with a schematic showing how you can do this with one resistor and one transistor. Glen 0/0 From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jun 16 14:17:46 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: Does RF output equal Composite? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Timex Sinclair 1000 - RF output, VHF Channel 2 or 3 > TV, no spade/screw VHS input > VCR has composite Video In, selected by switch. > > I'm not getting any picture at all running a composite cable from the >Timex to the VCR Video In. Do I need to make a Rat Shack run, or does >the Timex have a problem? Another thing I've noticed with my T/S-1000 and ZX-81 are that they seem somewhat picky about what TV's they'll work with. I've got a 19" JVC that was made about 10 or so years ago and some of the Sinclair's will work fine with it and some won't. They seem to prefer older sets. I really should try them with the portable B/W Panasonic that is the monitor for my SOL.... Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From kris at catonic.net Sun Jun 16 14:44:32 2002 From: kris at catonic.net (Kris Kirby) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > Hmm... In every UK car I have worked on, the starter motor itself draws > about 600A on-load from the battery. This current is switched by the > starter solenoid contacts which acts (in part -- it also moves the > pinion into mesh with the flywheel) as a large relay. How in the world do you measure such currents? I'd love to find out what it takes to crank my '85 Sentra. I've got an oversized battery. 8-) -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | IM: KrisBSD | HSV, AL. ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 16 14:13:07 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! Message-ID: <20020616192727.KMSU1087.imf13bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) > > btw if you need or know of anybody else here in town that does, I have an > > Amiga 1080 color composite monitor w/sound taking up space.. > > Those are very nice. But it will NOT work for a device that only outputs > RF. No, but he could tap the composite signal off of the Timex pcb a feed a composite monitor with it. Glen 0/0 From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 16 14:34:59 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: Does RF output equal Composite? Message-ID: <20020616193640.KPWV1087.imf13bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Jeff Hellige > Another thing I've noticed with my T/S-1000 and ZX-81 are > that they seem somewhat picky about what TV's they'll work with. > I've got a 19" JVC that was made about 10 or so years ago and some of > the Sinclair's will work fine with it and some won't. They seem to > prefer older sets. I really should try them with the portable B/W > Panasonic that is the monitor for my SOL.... Even when you find a TV the TS-1000 like, the RF is usually dirty. Most cheap, modern B&W sets accept composite input. For fifty cents and 15 minutes time you can a crystal clear display. Glen 0/0 From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Jun 16 14:00:12 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! References: <3D0CA8E2.9C8B182D@ccp.com> <3D0CBABF.25FBC52E@naffnet.org.uk> <3D0CC97F.4AB9BA32@gifford.co.uk> <3D0CCE96.5DAA2782@naffnet.org.uk> Message-ID: <3D0CE03C.56C1484A@jetnet.ab.ca> Dave Woodman wrote: > The mechanism that was used in early TV sets to achieve the > correction was rather interesting:- the set contained a glass block, > with an ultrasonic transducer at each end (one sending, the other? > well, no prizes for guessing!). The delay in the block was one > transmitted line so the output could be directly compared with the > following line. Ah, the wonders of old technology... One of the early British TV companies before WWII was using a ultrasonic transducer to modulate a optical gate. The optical gate was one scan line long and rotating mirrors were used to direct the output of the gate on to a screen similar to a projection TV. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From kris at catonic.net Sun Jun 16 14:37:17 2002 From: kris at catonic.net (Kris Kirby) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > [1] One classic is that a device has to be immune from a certain specified > level of ESD (there must be no permanent malfunctions and no loss of > internal data). This makes a lot of sense for, say, a PC sold to the > geenral public. It makes no sense at all for a piece of test equipment to > be used only by the constructor (who possibly doesn't care if he has to > reset it after a zap) at a static-safe bench (so the possibility of a zap > is minimal anyway). But if I build something that doesn't comply with > that regulation, as I understand it, I am breaking the law. On an unrelated vien, I've often thought about tracking down an old tempest PC case, removing the guts and installing something smaller but more modern -- FDDI, 100Base-FX or 1GigE over Fiber -- and putting a big RAID array in it (big -- three 120GB IDE drives[0]) and using it for EMP resistant storage. Lightning is EMP, after all. :-) [0]: No comments from the peanut gallery. I already know about IDE's reliabily and potential problems first-hand. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | IM: KrisBSD | HSV, AL. ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From kris at catonic.net Sun Jun 16 14:31:33 2002 From: kris at catonic.net (Kris Kirby) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <20020612030922.GC1501@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > Some don't know much about audio either. An RS salesdroid denied the > fact that RS no longer sells Hi-Fi equipment. He didn't understand > why a loudspeaker system with a low-end frequency response of 50Hz > isn't considered hi-fi. Not one loudspeaker, or woofer, sold by RS, > has a low end response of 20Hz or lower. No little charts anywhere in > the catalog showed any freq. response curves. The distortion ratings > for some of the "good" amplifiers sold at RS are rather high as well, > but the RS sales clerk didn't understand that little problem either. > As far as he was concerned, RS is still selling hi-fi equipment. I'm 22 and my father just got me on this one too. He's got a pair of Klipsch Heresy's (97db SPL @ 1W, 25+ years old, 3way -- 12" in the bottom) and was explaing that they `stop' at 50 Hz. I was awestruck because I know that speakers can reproduce lower notes (ineffiencely), but I didn't realize the magnatude that he was speaking of. I mean, the Heresys are very good speakers. I've heard these things and I can tell you they don't sound 25 years old! I play bass, and lacking a good amp, I process my music through a compressor, mixer, and EQ before sending it to a $125 50Wx2 Aiwa reciever. That Aiwa drives two Sony bookshelf speakers (8" W, 12" T, 10" D) and does a much better job of reproducing my bass than the 10W amp's own 8" speaker. Then again, that setup doesn't compare to my father's Ampeg BA-115. That's a 100W (Class-A finals) amp with a 15" speaker. It *will* rattle the walls. (But then again, houses aren't as thick as they used to be, nor use as much material.) -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | IM: KrisBSD | HSV, AL. ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jun 16 15:16:20 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Kris Kirby wrote: > > about 600A on-load from the battery. This current is switched by the > How in the world do you measure such currents? I'd love to find out what > it takes to crank my '85 Sentra. I've got an oversized battery. 8-) Either with an inductive ammeter, held near the wire (which is inaccurate; but accuracy is rarely needed in those cases) , or with an ammeter with a shunt, wherein the bulk of the current is permitted straight through, and a small amount is "sampled" to calculate the amount of current. Both are readily available from automotive tool vendors. Snap-on stopped making their good inductive meter 30 years ago, but their current ones (or cheap ones) will do. Radio Shack does not have a suitable meter for the task. From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jun 16 15:16:57 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: One SCSI tape connected to 2 hosts? In-Reply-To: <000001c21544$02e64500$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Bob Lafleur wrote: > I've noticed that my MV3100's SCSI host ID's are set to 6 - I thought > this odd, as host ID's are usually 7. Are all MV3100's set to 6, or is > mine unique? Anyway, I thought since my PC's host ID is 7, I could > connect my SCSI tape drive to both systems. So I ran a cable from one > connector on the back to my PC, and a cable from the other connector to > my MV3100. I figure it's a properly terminated chain, as each host > controller is terminated (I know the PC is, I assume the MV3100 is). > > It *seems* to work OK. But can anyone tell me for sure if this is > "legal"? I'm sure I'm looking for trouble if I try to use the same tape > drive from both systems at the same time, but as long as I don't do > that, is this an okay setup? It would sure beat changing cables every > time I want to move the tape drive from one system to the other. Bob, A few of the older SCSI "how-to" pages diagrammed just such a setup. I've never seen it done in real life, but it always looked like a reasonable idea to me, too. I just found out, talking to my boss, that both native Solaris and Veritas Volume manager support that type of configuration. It's also relevant that you can run IP-over-SCSI between hosts, and ISTR that the original Beowulf code provided just that for fast intra-cluster communication. Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jun 16 15:25:50 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: TS-1000 display; Was Re: Does RF output equal Composite? In-Reply-To: <20020616190228.PPCI28464.imf15bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > Hey Doc -- > > You can easily tap off the composite video from the wires leading from the > pcb to the RF modulator. If you'd like to buffer the signal, I can send > you a small TIFF with a schematic showing how you can do this with one > resistor and one transistor. That, I'm very interested in. If I can get a _clean_ composite signal, I can run the TS-1000 into the Composite Input of my TV tuner card and watch it in xawtv on my PC. Of course, that also gives me an excuse to snag Bill's Commodore 1080.... Doc From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jun 16 15:39:19 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: Does RF output equal Composite? In-Reply-To: <20020616193640.KPWV1087.imf13bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> References: <20020616193640.KPWV1087.imf13bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: > > From: Jeff Hellige > >> Another thing I've noticed with my T/S-1000 and ZX-81 are >> that they seem somewhat picky about what TV's they'll work with. >> I've got a 19" JVC that was made about 10 or so years ago and some of >> the Sinclair's will work fine with it and some won't. They seem to >> prefer older sets. I really should try them with the portable B/W >> Panasonic that is the monitor for my SOL.... > >Even when you find a TV the TS-1000 like, the RF is usually dirty. Most >cheap, modern B&W sets accept composite input. For fifty cents and 15 >minutes time you can a crystal clear display. I've often considered doing such a mod to my Spectrum so that I could use it. I've got the directions for adding composite-out to the Spectrum around here somewhere. That or feed it's output into the input of my Amiga 3000's TBC+ and have it do the signal conversion on the fly. The TBC+ is supposed to be capable of such a thing but I've never actually tried it to see how usable the resulting signal would be. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sun Jun 16 16:00:39 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: RKV11D - RK05 media to CD or other DEC media Message-ID: <3D0CFC77.BD1593E6@compsys.to> Last year, I acquired an RK05 drive along with a number of very old RK05 packs with RT-11 files. Since these distribution are all older than V5.03, they are covered under the Mentec license which allows usage under the SIMH emulator. Last week, I was able to borrow an RKV11D Qbus controller and copy most of the 17 packs (there were a few packs with bad blocks) with the RT-11 files to a CD. Within a few months, it should be possible to make these distributions available under the emulator license, just as V5.03 and V4.00 or RT-11 are now. In addition, while I still have the loan of the RKV11D, if there are any users with RK05 media that wish to rescue the files, I will be able to do so providing the media are still in readable condition. If the RK05 media are in satisfactory condition and I only need to read the files once for the COPY and a second time for the verification (there are no bad blocks), then there will only be a nominal charge for the destination CD or other DEC media that I am able to use such as RL02 or TK50 or TK70. If there are some "difficult" blocks that I am asked to try and recover, then I will also charge for my time. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 16 16:02:17 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: Does RF output equal Composite? Message-ID: <20020616210356.RIUD22297.imf02bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Jeff Hellige > I've often considered doing such a mod to my Spectrum so that > I could use it. I've got the directions for adding composite-out to > the Spectrum around here somewhere. That or feed it's output into > the input of my Amiga 3000's TBC+ and have it do the signal > conversion on the fly. The TBC+ is supposed to be capable of such a > thing but I've never actually tried it to see how usable the > resulting signal would be. Tony should be better able to advise you on the UK machines than I am, but a friend of mine has some of the Timex of Portugal (NOT Timex Computer Corp.) machines and a PAL-to-NTSC converter did the trick for him. They cost over $50, though. Glen 0/0 From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sun Jun 16 16:14:06 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! References: <3D0CA8E2.9C8B182D@ccp.com> <3D0CBABF.25FBC52E@naffnet.org.uk> <3D0CC97F.4AB9BA32@gifford.co.uk> <3D0CCE96.5DAA2782@naffnet.org.uk> Message-ID: <3D0CFF9E.B6DD0AC3@gifford.co.uk> Dave Woodman wrote: > The mechanism that was used in early TV sets to achieve the > correction was rather interesting:- the set contained a glass block, > with an ultrasonic transducer at each end (one sending, the other? > well, no prizes for guessing!). The delay in the block was one > transmitted line so the output could be directly compared with the > following line. Ah, the wonders of old technology... Old technology? Does that mean there's some newer version of the standard PAL delay line that I wasn't previously aware of? I thought all PAL sets (and video recorders?) used a glass delay line in this manner. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Jun 16 16:16:16 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: Timex Sinclair 1000 Update and Questions Message-ID: Well. I was roaming yesterday and found a very nice old Macy's dress box. In it was a TS-1000 with the TS-1016 16k memory cartridge, manuals cables, and around 10 tapes, including PIM apps & games. After soldering a broken joint on the m/b [1], running to WallyWorld at 2:00am for a 300ohm-to-75ohm converter, and finally figuring out that I needed to turn the brightness all the way up on the TV, the little booger works. This is the first computer I've had that was in need of board-level repair to start with, simple enough to ID the problem (and not too densely populated), and common and cheap enough to "risk" non-essential modifications. Texas Instruments trained me as a "Certified Solder Sucker" or whatever in 1982, but I really haven't done any electronics work since. I build cables, solder all the joints on auto work, and stuff, but till last night had truly forgotten the joys of eutectic solder. Also till last night, I had truly not realized how much worse my eyesight has gotten.... The card-edge cartridge connector is worn nearly through the traces on the m/b. If the computer is jostled much at all, it loses the RAM and its little mind. Next mod will be to do some (cheesy, yes I know) wire patching to the finger traces. I joked last night about just going to the thrifts for a $5 B&W TV, but my experience with tuning and brightness matches Jeff Hellige's comments, and I may do exactly that if I keep this. What I'll more likely do is try Glen Goodwin's idea and tap the composite signal off the motherboard. The major question concerns the program tapes. I tried hooking up to my stereo, the only cassette player I have anymore, and at any volume, it just blows the Timex away. The display goes to hell, it doesn't seem to "read" the program, and the display stays scrambled even after the cassette stops. The manual states that a "Hi-Fi" tape deck, as opposed to a cheap battery-driven portable, may be the source of problems. Does anybody have a suggestion or solution? My instinct is that my cheap stereo does enough EQ (not optional) to "blur" the signal. One of the websites I found last night quotes the promo for the 16k cartridge - something like "With the addition of 16 kilobytes of memory, the Timex Sinclair 1000 could conceivably store a program of 960 lines, but of course. no programmer would ever need to..." Doc From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Jun 16 16:16:31 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: RKV11D - RK05 media to CD or other DEC media In-Reply-To: <3D0CFC77.BD1593E6@compsys.to> References: <3D0CFC77.BD1593E6@compsys.to> Message-ID: <33245.64.169.63.74.1024262191.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Last week, I was able to borrow an RKV11D Qbus controller > and copy most of the 17 packs (there were a few packs with bad > blocks) with the RT-11 files to a CD. Within a few months, it > should be possible to make these distributions available under > the emulator license, just as V5.03 and V4.00 or RT-11 are now. Not to complain, but why "within a few months"? When I picked up the computer that those packs went with, I was very discouraged to find out that the packs were already gone, since I spent about $4000 making the trip and didn't wind up with anything I could boot on it. Sigh. Anyhow, thanks for reading the packs and I look forward to the images being available. Eric From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jun 16 16:25:18 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: Timex Sinclair 1000 Update and Questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > The card-edge cartridge connector is worn nearly through the traces on >the m/b. If the computer is jostled much at all, it loses the RAM and >its little mind. Next mod will be to do some (cheesy, yes I know) wire >patching to the finger traces. Heck, they did that when they were brand new! Always pissed me off when I'd inadventently move the machine just a little while typing something in and it'd shut down. > The major question concerns the program tapes. I tried hooking up to >my stereo, the only cassette player I have anymore, and at any volume, >it just blows the Timex away. The display goes to hell, it doesn't seem >to "read" the program, and the display stays scrambled even after the >cassette stops. The manual states that a "Hi-Fi" tape deck, as opposed >to a cheap battery-driven portable, may be the source of problems. Does >anybody have a suggestion or solution? My instinct is that my cheap >stereo does enough EQ (not optional) to "blur" the signal. 20 years ago when I first got my 1000, I used a Sears 'all in one' stereo deck for tape storage. It worked pretty well though I had to fiddle with the signal levels. If you plan on keeping it, you might look at picking up one of the portable tape units from GE, Panasonic, Radio Shack, or whatever. They're all over the place in the thrift stores and pretty cheap too. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From vaxman at earthlink.net Sun Jun 16 16:27:22 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: One SCSI tape connected to 2 hosts? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Bob, I've tried to connect a tape drive between a Windows 95? machine and a FreeBSD machine with limited success. Windows issues a bus reset whenever it gets confused (translate a lot!) which will abort any transfer taking place from the MV3100. FreeBSD seemed to be better about not bothering with the bus except for reboots, but wasn't reliable WRT transfers. What you really need is a PC driver that accepts the fact it isn't the highest priority device, and leaves the bus reset line alone. Clint On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Doc wrote: > On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Bob Lafleur wrote: > > > I've noticed that my MV3100's SCSI host ID's are set to 6 - I thought > > this odd, as host ID's are usually 7. Are all MV3100's set to 6, or is > > mine unique? Anyway, I thought since my PC's host ID is 7, I could > > connect my SCSI tape drive to both systems. So I ran a cable from one > > connector on the back to my PC, and a cable from the other connector to > > my MV3100. I figure it's a properly terminated chain, as each host > > controller is terminated (I know the PC is, I assume the MV3100 is). > > > > It *seems* to work OK. But can anyone tell me for sure if this is > > "legal"? I'm sure I'm looking for trouble if I try to use the same tape > > drive from both systems at the same time, but as long as I don't do > > that, is this an okay setup? It would sure beat changing cables every > > time I want to move the tape drive from one system to the other. > > Bob, > A few of the older SCSI "how-to" pages diagrammed just such a setup. > I've never seen it done in real life, but it always looked like a > reasonable idea to me, too. > I just found out, talking to my boss, that both native Solaris and > Veritas Volume manager support that type of configuration. > It's also relevant that you can run IP-over-SCSI between hosts, and > ISTR that the original Beowulf code provided just that for fast > intra-cluster communication. > > Doc > > From dave at naffnet.org.uk Sun Jun 16 16:28:49 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! References: <3D0CA8E2.9C8B182D@ccp.com> <3D0CBABF.25FBC52E@naffnet.org.uk> <3D0CC97F.4AB9BA32@gifford.co.uk> <3D0CCE96.5DAA2782@naffnet.org.uk> <3D0CFF9E.B6DD0AC3@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <3D0D0311.302E5488@naffnet.org.uk> John Honniball wrote: > Dave Woodman wrote: > > The mechanism that was used in early TV sets to achieve the > > correction was rather interesting:- the set contained a glass block, > > with an ultrasonic transducer at each end (one sending, the other? > > well, no prizes for guessing!). The delay in the block was one > > transmitted line so the output could be directly compared with the > > following line. Ah, the wonders of old technology... > > Old technology? Does that mean there's some newer version of > the standard PAL delay line that I wasn't previously aware of? > > I thought all PAL sets (and video recorders?) used a glass delay > line in this manner. Perchance they do - the technology is still old, though! I haven't played games with TV internals for many a long year - and when I was playing I didn't like the HT finding me to be a convenient ground, when I thought I have discharged all the caps - I still have the odd tiny scar from the arcs... I do know that some use a chip to perform the delay - what the mechanism inside the chip is, I don't know (perhaps old technology in a new package?). Cheers, Dave. From meltie at myrealbox.com Sun Jun 16 16:36:04 2002 From: meltie at myrealbox.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: Timex Sinclair 1000 Update and Questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1024263367.6175.1.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> On Sun, 2002-06-16 at 22:16, Doc Shipley wrote: > The major question concerns the program tapes. I tried hooking up to > my stereo, the only cassette player I have anymore, and at any volume, > it just blows the Timex away. The display goes to hell, it doesn't seem > to "read" the program, and the display stays scrambled even after the > cassette stops. The manual states that a "Hi-Fi" tape deck, as opposed > to a cheap battery-driven portable, may be the source of problems. Does > anybody have a suggestion or solution? My instinct is that my cheap > stereo does enough EQ (not optional) to "blur" the signal. If they are both plugged into the mains and it's a total crash/scrambling of the system, my first instinct is an earth loop, waddya think guys? Alex -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. From mythtech at mac.com Mon Jun 17 16:32:25 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: Bulk Tape Eraser Message-ID: I just found a box of stuff that hasn't seen the light of day since my company moved to our current building some 15 years ago. In it was a Bulk Tape Eraser. The box pictures it being used on 5.25 floppies (as well as an 8 track tape and reel to reel tape). Is it safe to use on floppy disks? I have a stack of HD 3.5's that I want to blank out. Previously I just run them thru a computer to format them, but if a bulk tape eraser can be used, it just saves me the trouble. Also, how exactly are you supposed to use one? It has been as long since I used one (probably this same one, used to use it to blank reel to reel audio tapes). I thought I remembered that all you do is turn it on, hold it over the item for a few seconds, wave it back and forth a bit, and that was it. The item would be erased. I just tried this one on a VHS video tape, it doesn't seem to do anything to it. The picture is slightly distorted, but the tape is certainly not blanked, not even close. I left it on for a good 30 to 45 seconds (the label on the side of it says 1 minute on 20 minutes off, so I didn't want to go beyond 1 minute). It has a momentary switch on the handle, so it clearly isn't designed to be left on very long. It makes a slight humm when on (and vibrates just a touch, nothing visible, but you can feel it in your hand) so I assume it is working. However, this is a Radio Shack brand item, so who knows if it is doing what it should considering it is probably over 20 years old. Any clues? -chris From bdwheele at indiana.edu Mon Jun 17 14:04:39 2002 From: bdwheele at indiana.edu (brian wheeler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:23 2005 Subject: Misc For Sale Message-ID: <1024340680.14066.9.camel@thor> I got bit by the Gas-Powered RC Truck bug so I decided its time to get rid of some parts that I'll probably never use. Darned siblings with their cool toys! Anyway, everything is working, as near as I can tell, and 'or-best-offer'. I won't ship the LaserWriter, but everything else I'll ship at the buyer's expense. I'm located in Bloomington, IN 47408. If you have any questions, feel free to email me. Brian --- the list --- NewTek Video Toaster 1.0 for Amiga S/N 002460, no software [$100] Sun CG3 (sbus/SS5) 501-2691 [$25] SGI Personal IRIS Boards [$20 for all] Magnum Audio (030-8064-004 Rev G) Video Turbo Option GT2 (030-8020-003 Rev E) Video Z Buffer Option ZB3 (030-8004-003 Rev C) Video Bitplane Option BP4 (030-8003-002 Rev C) Misc Chips [$10 for all] NEC DR3031R-40/VR3010A-40 FPU NEC DR30310R-40/VR3000A-40 CPU Weitek 3172A-025 (FPU for Sun IPC) Weitek XL-3132-100 (FPU) Motorola XC68030RC16B AMD AM29000-16GC Memorex IDE CDROM 48x (new in box, though missing some packing material) [$25] Tandy DCM-3 (26-1178) 300 Baud Modem [$5] DCM-IB (26-1175) 300 Baud Modem [$5] HP Envizex XTerm C2731A [$50] Apple LaserWriter IINTX (2MB) [$75] **WILL NOT SHIP** Toner M6002 (new) [$20] Radio Shack Color Computer 2 (2x) [$10 each] Speech/Sound Cartridge for CoCo (26-3144A) [$10] From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 17 12:17:37 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: Massive qty's VMS Condists available In-Reply-To: <20020616170709.3601118336@mudd.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <20020617171737.90334.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tim Shoppa wrote: > That might save on shipping, but there is *no* shortage of random > Condists here. If everyone insists on the latest and greatest, then > there is a quantity problem, in that I only get rid of a few sets and am > stuck with hundreds of Condists that nobody wants :-) Well... for myself, I would _want_ one of everything. As for the shipping issue, what about aggregation - you divvy things up into a few piles, then part of the terms for receipt are a) covering shipping costs ;-) and b) providing CD sets to others on similar terms (i.e., don't take 5 sets just so you can sell 4 on eBay). Personally, I only want to keep one set and only know of a couple people in the area who would want any, but I'd be glad to act as a distribution node of original condists sets for the region. I.e., I would pay for shipping on 5 sets (but probably not more than 10) on the speculation that I could at least recover 1/n of the shipping cost from the next person down the chain. This would at least help Tim out by not having to make individual packages for N random folks who come by in dribs and drabs. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jun 17 13:32:51 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: Other interesting Intel chips (was iAPX 432 (was Re: 88000 machines)) Message-ID: <200206171832.LAA16576@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Eric Smith" > >It's pretty tough to get iAPX 432 stuff. The software is even more >difficult to find than the boards or chips. > Hi The 432 stuff is really hard to get. I do have another almost as hard to find Intel item. It is a evaluation setup for the i2920, not to be confused with the AMD 2920. It is an early DSP chip. It was Intel's idea of what should be done in DSP. It was not too successful because it was not a general purpose type processor like the TI and Motorola DSP entries. It was designed to do a single program, repetitively. One of the example programs was to make a simple spectrum analyzer. You'd feed analog data in and it would run an oscilloscope as the display. It would just need a anti-aliasing filter for the input and connect to the scope. Some of the other hard to find Intel parts are things like the 8021 and 8022 parts. Although not as rare, the 3000 series bit slice parts are getting harder to find as well but these were used on many of the older Multibus disk controller cards. Dwight From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jun 17 13:15:08 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: Sioux City hamfest Message-ID: <200206171815.LAA16560@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Gary Hildebrand" > >Not much to report here, nice turnout, and a few odd items worth noting >. . . . . > >There was a Fluke something, that looked like some sort of terminal that >set up data acquisition on an IEE-488 buss. He had the complete unit >and software and docs. All I remember is that the CRT had a 2:1 aspect >ratio. I'm sure this will turn on some of you obscure stuff collectors. ---snip--- Hi This sounds like the touch screen terminal that Fluke made. This was early touch screen technology and was larger touch locations. Still, it was good enough for simple menu entry. Dwight From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 17 12:40:09 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: Sioux City hamfest In-Reply-To: <3D0BC945.4FC9F525@ccp.com> Message-ID: <20020617174009.58739.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Gary Hildebrand wrote: > Not much to report here, nice turnout, and a few odd items worth noting > . . . . . > > I did pick up a Commodore MPS-801 printer . . . are ribbons still > available and for how much??? If I can't get any ribbons, I'll just > contribute it to someone who wants to give it a nice home and call the > dollar invested a loss. I might have some ribbons in the attic. They were manufactured a decade or more ago, so they might stand a re-inking, but they are new-in-bag, if I have any (I have a box of C= ribbons, just not sure for what printers at the moment). > I even found one (wished there were more) AUI to 10 base T transceiver. > Now I can check out my Amiga ethernet boards, if the Xcvr is okay . . . I saw piles of them at Dayton for $5 each. If I'd known, I'd have picked up a few for you. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jun 17 12:38:00 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: Source for components on Internet? In-Reply-To: <3D0D0311.302E5488@naffnet.org.uk> References: <3D0CA8E2.9C8B182D@ccp.com> <3D0CBABF.25FBC52E@naffnet.org.uk> <3D0CC97F.4AB9BA32@gifford.co.uk> <3D0CCE96.5DAA2782@naffnet.org.uk> <3D0CFF9E.B6DD0AC3@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: Does anyone have a recommended place to order stuff such as Resistors and TTL from on the net? I was at the local large seller of such stuff on Saturday and half the stuff I wanted they were out of. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 17 12:26:15 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: Network card for LaserJet In-Reply-To: <002001c213be$5528dad0$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <20020617172615.25841.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Curt Vendel wrote: > Its quite common.... > > > Nearly all of the Cisco equipment have RJ45 console ports on them... Yep. I have a bag of spare DE9 and DB25 Cisco hoods I use for just about everything. > The great thing about the > console ports on most devices is that they use standard straight run CAT5 > cables so you don't have to make up a custom one. It depends. The Cisco stuff I have can use either a silver-satin-style flat cable or CAT3/CAT5-style cable (presuming all 8 wires are run, not just the two pair in use by 10BaseT). The advantage is that one style of cable is flipped from the other, making an instant null-modem cable by swapping out the wires between the hoods. Unfortunately for me, I have Cisco-style RJ45 serial stuff, DEC MMJ serial stuff, *and* several cubic feet of Nevada-Western RJ11 serial stuff, including Telco-50 cables (like 50-pin SCSI-1 connectors) and 8-port boxes and 19" rack panels. It's what we used when we had 16-64 serial ports per VAX - custom cables that went from the 50-pin connectors on the Unibus cards to the Telco-50s on the back of the patch panels. Quite convenient. I got all of it when the company closed (and ran a pair of 25-pair cables up my wall from the basement - 8 serial ports and 25 voice lines!). -ethan -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jun 17 12:18:27 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: Timex Sinclair 1000 Update and Questions Message-ID: <200206171718.KAA16538@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Doc Shipley" > ---snip--- > The card-edge cartridge connector is worn nearly through the traces on >the m/b. If the computer is jostled much at all, it loses the RAM and >its little mind. Next mod will be to do some (cheesy, yes I know) wire >patching to the finger traces. ---snip--- Hi As I've mentioned in the past, If you put some silicon grease, like DC#4 on the fingers, you won't have the erratic contact problem on things like the Sinclair. It improve contact by keeping surface oxides from forming. It is non-conductive so it won't cause other problems. Dwight From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 17 12:07:53 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: E-6B usage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020617170753.20541.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- "J.C. Wren" wrote: > Surely you're not telling me the FAA no longer requires students to know > how to perform these functions manually, nor requires them to demonstrate > that knowledge? I was not required to pull out an E6B during my oral exam or my check ride for my private ticket (last year). I _was_ trained on it by my instructor and he did require that I use it and not an electronic one for my cross-country prep. I don't have the FAR-AIM with me at work, but I'm pretty sure that the E6B is not specifically mentioned as a required tool or item to have with you in the cockpit. There are "catch-all" regs that say that the pilot is responsible for knowing everything there is to know pertaining to safe aircraft operation. Presumably, that's what you'd be guilty of if you landed in a corn field because you didn't calculate the amount of fuel burned by the headwinds stronger than forecast, especially if you had an E6B with you but didn't know how to use it. -ethan -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 17 11:50:00 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: A VAX 6610 is rolling toward my garage ... In-Reply-To: <3D097D94.505@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <20020617165000.60908.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Gunther Schadow wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > Been there, done that, but it was all 11/7xx machines. > > Still have those? It's fun isn't it, my 11/780 is a very nice > decoration to the garage :-) Yep. The 11/750 and 11/730 are in storage, but the 8200 is in my basement and sees occasional use. > > basic peripherals (KDB50, COMBOARD-BI, DEBNT, 2nd CPU (if I run my 8200 > > as an 8300), DMB32), > > I bought a few superflous DEBNx cards. The funny thing is they > say DEBNT on the outside but when I run them the SHOW CONFIG > says "DEBNI". I don't know who's lying. Hmm... what's the difference? I know DEC tweaked their Ethernet peripherals from time-to-time (DEQNA, DELQA, DESQA...), but I've never seen a concise write-up of what, when, where and why. I do recall the guys at Ohio State optimizing the Ethernet drivers for their Pyramid machines and squirting several packets back-to-back, with such little interval time that they wedged a uVAX-II with a DEQNA - it had an on-board buffer, but they gave it one more packet than it had time to deal with, even to discern if the packet was bound for the uVAX or not. If a slug of data went down the hose, even between two other machines, the DEQNA would croak. > > I'm out of BI slots. > > Hmm, isn't there something like a VAXBI bus extender? In that > case you might have use for my VAXBI double backplane? I don't think so. Among other things, there's only so many BI IDs (four-bit number IIRC). > Ah the SCSI stuff. Yea, I have given up on that. SDI disks are > a lot more fun... I have several hundred pounds of SDI drives. I'd be happy with a couple for show (and interchange, perhaps), but SCSI for better megabytes/pound numbers. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 17 11:59:54 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: Cosmac In-Reply-To: <00a401c21457$4baf86e0$0100000a@deepspacenine> Message-ID: <20020617165954.95655.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Philip Pemberton wrote: > Do any of your docs say what "COSMAC" actually means? I was thinking > along the lines of "Chip On Sapphire MAChine" or something like that... Never thought of the origins, but that's an astute guess. I just figured it was a catchy name invented by marketing. > IIRC NASA used 1802s on some deep-space probes). Voyager I and II, and Galileo (a recycled Voyager spare). In addition to radiation resistance, the 1802 works down to 0 Hz - it can be statically clocked - a buddy of mine built an Elf in high-school and didn't own an oscilloscope - for debugging it, he used a debounced switch and an analog VOM. He followed along the timing diagram in the RCA docs and manually toggled it through the states (8 clocks per cycle, 2 or 3 cycles per instruction). Unlike lots of modern processors, you can have an arbitrary amount of time between clock ticks, providing for serious power savings when a spacecraft is in cruise-along-and-ignore-things-for-weeks mode. Just set an "alarm" to speed up the clock when an event comes in, or every so often, then conserve for the rest of the trip (the Voyager frame uses plutonium RTGs (radio-isotope thermal generators?) for power, so it's not like you save on the batteries, but the principle is the same - don't stress the equipment if you have nothing to do. The 1802 is one of my 3 favorite microprocessors. As everyone else has said, nice find. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 17 11:40:55 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: PET and Magic Sac+ In-Reply-To: <02Jun14.090533edt.119139@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <20020617164055.17711.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jeff Hellige wrote: > >And Dave Small did a version for the Amiga, too, I seem to > >remember his exhibiting at an Amiga conference back when... > > The main Mac emulation boards for the Amiga were the Amax and > the Emplant, though the Emplant didn't support the use of the > 400k/800k Mac disks or floppy drive. It did have Mac serial and SCSI > ports though. I have both an A-Max and an A-Max-II for the Amiga... The original A-Max is a long, thin cartridge that hangs off the floppy poer of the Amiga and provides a pair of ROM sockets, pass-through for the Amiga floppy, and a Mac floppy port. Later, the A-Max-II came out for the A2000, etc., as a Zorro board with a Z8530, twin Mac 8-pin mini-DINs, ROM sockets, and a couple of 34-pin floppy connectors. Instead of hanging an external Mac floppy off a port in the back, you plug the internal Amiga floppy into the A-Max-II board, and the A-Max-II board into the motherboard. I presume it stuttered the motor or some such to get the rotation speeds to match; that, or it synthesized its own bit clock (not sure if that would work with Denise or not). There was also an A-Max-IV, an A-Max-II board with a new PAL, more or less, and different application software. I think it was released to be able to run newer versions of the Mac OS than the A-Max-II could. I used my A-Max cart/board for _years_ so I could a) transport files to and from my mother's typesetting shop and b) directly drive my HP LaserJet 4/ML (that I bought *new* for over $1000) from Mac apps. Played a lot of Risk, also. :-) Even when I had an A4000, the A3000 w/A-Max-II still got lots of use. eventually, I started finding Macs for <$50 at the thrift stores and I've moved on. I did like Shapeshifter - a software-only Mac emulator for the Amiga. I got a free license key for providing development assistance to the author. It ran *concurrently* with AmigaDOS, and supported Ethernet. As a demo at work (I had my A3000 on my desk when I was on the Ice), I showed my Amiga booting System 7.something, then pull files off the Quadra 950 to its left, while at the same time, surfing the web with AMosaic. I even showed it surfing with Netscape under MacOS, but I had to shut down the TCP/IP stack on the AmigaDOS side because there was no way for the stack to know which OS wanted to see IP packets. As long as I didn't use the same packet type, I could have both OSes using the hardware via the SANA-2 driver and it knew where to deliver the packets to. A second ethernet card would have done the trick, too - one IP address for the Mac, one for AmigaDOS. I did not try running a DOS emulator under MacOS. :-) -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Mon Jun 17 11:35:04 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: Network card for LaserJet Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A25@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk > > > But, yes, I agree. Those hubs are the only time _I've_ seen RJ-45 > > used for serial communication. > > Perhaps somebody can explain why 10baseT ethernet is not 'serial > communication' ( :-) ) > > -tony > Okay, Tony. You got me. I guess I should've said "...used for RS-232 communication." Or would it be RS-432? :P -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Mon Jun 17 11:31:04 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A24@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Kris Kirby > > .... > I play bass, and lacking a good amp, I process my music through a > compressor, mixer, and EQ before sending it to a $125 50Wx2 Aiwa reciever. > That Aiwa drives two Sony bookshelf speakers (8" W, 12" T, 10" D) and does > a much better job of reproducing my bass than the 10W amp's own 8" > speaker. > > Then again, that setup doesn't compare to my father's Ampeg BA-115. That's > a 100W (Class-A finals) amp with a 15" speaker. It *will* rattle the > walls. (But then again, houses aren't as thick as they used to be, nor use > as much material.) > > -- > Well, my Hamer 5 string bass does quite well through the Peavey head, and into a homemade 4 x 12" speaker cabinet. Yeah they're some old generic 12" woofers, but they do 'boom' well, for now... :) -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From allain at panix.com Mon Jun 17 11:24:30 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: (OT: video) Re: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! References: <3D0CA8E2.9C8B182D@ccp.com> <3D0CBABF.25FBC52E@naffnet.org.uk> <3D0CC97F.4AB9BA32@gifford.co.uk> <3D0CCE96.5DAA2782@naffnet.org.uk> <3D0CFF9E.B6DD0AC3@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <007a01c2161b$75dde680$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > The mechanism that was used in early TV sets to achieve the > correction was rather interesting:- the set contained a glass block, > with an ultrasonic transducer at each end (one sending, the other? > well, no prizes for guessing!). The delay in the block was one > transmitted line so the output could be directly compared with the > following line. Ah, the wonders of old technology... I still see these in 10yo+/- VCR's. I speak of a silicon? slab about a square inch, rectangular, not square, with two two-wire electrical connections (sender and receiver?) on corners cut at 45-deg angles. There are sort of harmonic dampening node points glued or whatever to regular places along the block. All this inside a small plastic block. Sounds like the same thing as what you're saying. What might be the signal types and the delay time for these? John A. From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Mon Jun 17 01:46:20 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: One SCSI tape connected to 2 hosts? Message-ID: >What you really need is a PC driver that accepts the fact it isn't >the highest priority device, and leaves the bus reset line alone. Don't forget that the MicroVAX 3100 console also assumes that it is the only master on the bus. I don't think anyone envisaged doing this sort of thing at the time that was written. Later on (sometime during Alpha development) consoles became a little brighter and a shared SCSI bus (mainly for OpenVMS clustering) became possible. Antonio From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jun 17 00:33:42 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: One SCSI tape connected to 2 hosts? References: Message-ID: <005001c215c0$8b2a3b20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I remember an article or newsgroup post about five years ago that discussed this. I remember there was a fellow in Germany who was using SCSI ID=4 for one system's host adapter while he used ID=7 on the other. I've found that Windows hits my SCSI channels at about 1 Hz, however, so this procedure is not likely to work if Windows is one of the players. I have a three-channel controller and it clearly shows activity on each channel at about that rate. The odd thing is that the CDROM doesn't see a hit, but the tape drive, which the Win98 backup program doesn't even see, though the device manager does, gets tagged each time the bus is fiddled with. This makes for a lot of waiting when the tape drive is doing an eject or a retension operation, for which it would disconnect if Windows drivers supported that sort of thing. When I was at Martin, we used a couple of ADAPTEC AHA1540's to try to communicate between two PC/AT's. It made for quite a bit of raw bandwidth, but was difficult to wade through the protocol. That was before Windows, BTW, and success was limited to "making it work" but never was pushed to the point of actually doing useful work. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" To: Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 3:27 PM Subject: Re: One SCSI tape connected to 2 hosts? > > Hi Bob, > > I've tried to connect a tape drive between a Windows 95? machine > and a FreeBSD machine with limited success. Windows issues a bus > reset whenever it gets confused (translate a lot!) which will > abort any transfer taking place from the MV3100. FreeBSD seemed > to be better about not bothering with the bus except for reboots, > but wasn't reliable WRT transfers. > > What you really need is a PC driver that accepts the fact it isn't > the highest priority device, and leaves the bus reset line alone. > > Clint > > On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Doc wrote: > > > On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Bob Lafleur wrote: > > > > > I've noticed that my MV3100's SCSI host ID's are set to 6 - I thought > > > this odd, as host ID's are usually 7. Are all MV3100's set to 6, or is > > > mine unique? Anyway, I thought since my PC's host ID is 7, I could > > > connect my SCSI tape drive to both systems. So I ran a cable from one > > > connector on the back to my PC, and a cable from the other connector to > > > my MV3100. I figure it's a properly terminated chain, as each host > > > controller is terminated (I know the PC is, I assume the MV3100 is). > > > > > > It *seems* to work OK. But can anyone tell me for sure if this is > > > "legal"? I'm sure I'm looking for trouble if I try to use the same tape > > > drive from both systems at the same time, but as long as I don't do > > > that, is this an okay setup? It would sure beat changing cables every > > > time I want to move the tape drive from one system to the other. > > > > Bob, > > A few of the older SCSI "how-to" pages diagrammed just such a setup. > > I've never seen it done in real life, but it always looked like a > > reasonable idea to me, too. > > I just found out, talking to my boss, that both native Solaris and > > Veritas Volume manager support that type of configuration. > > It's also relevant that you can run IP-over-SCSI between hosts, and > > ISTR that the original Beowulf code provided just that for fast > > intra-cluster communication. > > > > Doc > > > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jun 17 00:23:58 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: IMSAI News? References: <20020616110950.A0AF118336@mudd.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <003201c215bf$2f06b220$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> If you poke around in the DigiKey catalog a little bit I'll be you can find the TO-220 switchers that somebody or other sells. There are also some that sit on TO-3 footprints, though neither type is as small as the genuine package. Another problem is that the small switchers still only put out about a half to maybe one ampere, and I've got a few S-100 boards that have two or three three three-amp regulators on them. Several others have a TO-220 for each of four banks of SRAMs. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Shoppa" To: Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 5:09 AM Subject: Re: IMSAI News? > > The power supply and its management was the least of your worries with their > > hardware. However, if your board required +/- 15, which was pretty easily > > regulated from the +/- 16, which was seldom limited to 16, you'd be in real > > trouble with the 12 volt bipolar supply. > > > > Further, I'd say, though it's not "new" nowadays, it was practiced only a > > short time in the life of the S-100. I think the deviation from the standard > > practices, not necessarily the "standard," was what led to its death, > > actually. > > If I was going to do it today, I'd stick with the ~8V unregulated bus and > use a small buck switching regulator on each card. You get all the efficiency > of a switcher, and compatibility with older stuff. > > With "Simple Switchers" from NatSemi (or equivalent from Motorola/Onsemi/ > TI etc.) it's very easy to do. What's really good is that many of the > electronics distributors which let their inductor selection whither away > over the years now have excellent selections of inductors - some of which > they keep in stock! :-) > > Tim. > From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Jun 17 00:18:19 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: Philips and auction finds (was: Re: I hate Radio Shack) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Jun 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > The operating word is "cheap" : those for whom price is the only guide > > will never find good quality. Not at Philips, nor at any other > > brand.... > > Agreed. I don't want to buy on price, but I can't seem to find much > good quality stuff any more. > > I'd rather pay \pounds 2000 and get a VCR that's built like the old > VR2022 I have awaiting repair (It'd be nice if the modern VCRs had all > of the features of that beauty as well), than pay \pounds 100 and get > a plastic chassis that will last the 90 day period and not much > longer. But I can't Veering a little OT (though the equipment is indeed 10 years old), my current gripe with Philips/Magnavox is the lack of printed service literature. A few months ago I inquired about a service manual for one of those "cheap" VCRs, and was told they _now_ only send out literature on cdrom to their "authorized" service centers. Whats worse, is that I think I own at least 4 different (but similar) Phillips/Magnavox VCRs... Back to something more on topic... This last week at auction, I picked up one of the oldest cd writers I've ever seen, which is ironically made by Philips. It appears to have a SCSI interface, and seems to be in good shape physically. If there is any interest, I'll update the list once I get a chance to inspect it further and test it out. Another item I picked up in the same lot was (yet another) Pioneer DRM-604X cdrom changer (I collect 'em ;). It had the magazine jammed in it, and when I broke the unit down for inspection, I found that whoever previously "repaired" it, had left their test "JIG" (as marked) optical pickup assembly installed. The assembly was missing 2 of the 4 leveling springs, and the two that were installed were in the wrong places (two different tensions are used). One of the springs is also bent out of shape. The disc table motor's connector has a small crack in the shell surrounding the pins. There is also visible wear and tear on the flat cable for the optical pickup, where it connects to the main board. Based on what I found, it appears that a service shop accidentally left their "JIG" optical assembly installed when they shipped it back after repairs. Since it had leveling problems due to the missing and improperly installed springs, it eventually jammed up. I picked up lots of other nice bits of older hardware, but I think most of it would still be considered OT for now. -Toth From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sun Jun 16 22:25:43 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: RKV11D - RK05 media to CD or other DEC media References: <3D0CFC77.BD1593E6@compsys.to> <33245.64.169.63.74.1024262191.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3D0D56B7.5818F290@compsys.to> >Eric Smith wrote: > > Last week, I was able to borrow an RKV11D Qbus controller > > and copy most of the 17 packs (there were a few packs with bad > > blocks) with the RT-11 files to a CD. Within a few months, it > > should be possible to make these distributions available under > > the emulator license, just as V5.03 and V4.00 or RT-11 are now. > Not to complain, but why "within a few months"? Jerome Fine replies: Not to exaggerate the problems, but have you ever used RT-11? Have you ever tried to recover files when some of the blocks are bad? The process is extremely time consuming and requires great patience. > When I picked up the computer that those packs went with, I was > very discouraged to find out that the packs were already gone, > since I spent about $4000 making the trip and didn't wind up with > anything I could boot on it. Sigh. I was not sure when I arranged the trip if the RT-11 files would be carefully preserved!! Now that they are on the way to a CD, I am confident. > Anyhow, thanks for reading the packs and I look forward to the > images being available. You are welcome, how can I help? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 16 19:38:47 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <20020616185723.GB4747@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Jun 16, 2 02:57:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 625 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020617/583baca3/attachment.ksh From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Sun Jun 16 21:52:57 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: One SCSI tape connected to 2 hosts? In-Reply-To: <000001c21544$02e64500$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020616225257.01a0e940@pop1.epm.net.co> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1165 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020616/b5655025/attachment.bin From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 16 20:17:21 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! In-Reply-To: <3D0CFF9E.B6DD0AC3@gifford.co.uk> from "John Honniball" at Jun 16, 2 10:14:06 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1111 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020617/2ffcb31c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 16 19:36:03 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <20020616184513.GA4747@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Jun 16, 2 02:45:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 890 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020617/20a34f52/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 16 20:22:16 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: Timex Sinclair 1000 Update and Questions In-Reply-To: from "Doc Shipley" at Jun 16, 2 04:16:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1278 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020617/35bdb00f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 16 19:48:49 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: from "Kris Kirby" at Jun 16, 2 07:44:32 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2284 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020617/286f795c/attachment.ksh From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 16 20:00:12 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: Timex Sinclair 1000 Update and Questions Message-ID: <20020617010159.KQGH1202.imf01bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Alex White > If they are both plugged into the mains and it's a total > crash/scrambling of the system, my first instinct is an earth loop, > waddya think guys? > > Alex Nah, this is a common symptom of a program which failed to LOAD properly -- the machine may lose its mind and display garbage, requiring a power-fail. Check the tape and the cassette unit. Glen 0/0 From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 16 19:54:19 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: Timex Sinclair 1000 Update and Questions Message-ID: <20020617005631.KNHL1202.imf01bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Hey Doc -- > From: Doc Shipley > Well. I was roaming yesterday and found a very nice old Macy's dress > box. In it was a TS-1000 with the TS-1016 16k memory cartridge, manuals > cables, and around 10 tapes, including PIM apps & games. After > soldering a broken joint on the m/b [1], running to WallyWorld at 2:00am > for a 300ohm-to-75ohm converter, and finally figuring out that I needed > to turn the brightness all the way up on the TV, the little booger > works. Cool! Welcome to the international ZX81/TS-1000 community. There are LOTS of us out here still finding new applications for these things. > This is the first computer I've had that was in need of board-level > repair to start with, simple enough to ID the problem (and not too > densely populated), and common and cheap enough to "risk" non-essential > modifications. Which makes it darn near perfect, IMHO. If only it were just a little tiny bit faster ;>) > Texas Instruments trained me as a "Certified Solder > Sucker" or whatever in 1982, but I really haven't done any electronics > work since. I build cables, solder all the joints on auto work, and > stuff, but till last night had truly forgotten the joys of eutectic > solder. Also till last night, I had truly not realized how much worse > my eyesight has gotten.... Yeah, that sucks. I need a really bright light about eight inches away from the work and a super-fine tip to do anything intricate anymore. It's hell getting old but it sure beats the alternative . . . > The card-edge cartridge connector is worn nearly through the traces on > the m/b. If the computer is jostled much at all, it loses the RAM and > its little mind. Next mod will be to do some (cheesy, yes I know) wire > patching to the finger traces. Or, you can make a cable to run between the computer and the RAM pack. Or, you can make supports for both so that each is stable. Or, you can adapt or buy a full-size keyboard so that the vibration from typing doesn't disturb the components. > I joked last night about just going to the thrifts for a $5 B&W TV, > but my experience with tuning and brightness matches Jeff Hellige's > comments, and I may do exactly that if I keep this. What I'll more > likely do is try Glen Goodwin's idea and tap the composite signal off > the motherboard. Yeah, I sent you the schematic earlier. Hope it helped. If you run some wires from the pcb to the empty forward part of the shell, and use an in-line female RCA jack, everything fits nicely inside (except the jack) and the wires connected to the RCA jack will easily pass through the shell near the "earphone" jack. > The major question concerns the program tapes. I tried hooking up to > my stereo, the only cassette player I have anymore, and at any volume, > it just blows the Timex away. The display goes to hell, it doesn't seem > to "read" the program, and the display stays scrambled even after the > cassette stops. The manual states that a "Hi-Fi" tape deck, as opposed > to a cheap battery-driven portable, may be the source of problems. Does > anybody have a suggestion or solution? My instinct is that my cheap > stereo does enough EQ (not optional) to "blur" the signal. Finding an appropriate cassette recorder can be a challenge, so I would suggest that you don't hunt for one using tapes of unknown quality. First, try SAVEing a one line program onto a good-quality (doesn't have to be great, just good) new blank cassette. Then re-LOAD the program. Try different volume levels. This is the only way to verify that the recorder is suitable for both operations. Then try LOADing your other tapes. Last time I had to hunt for a suitable cassette machine (four years or so ago) I went through several, including a nice Sony, before I found that the best match was a Radio Shack (can't believe I'm writing this) Optimus. Cost about $40, but worth it if you plan on using the TS-1000 very often. > One of the websites I found last night quotes the promo for the 16k > cartridge - something like "With the addition of 16 kilobytes of memory, > the Timex Sinclair 1000 could conceivably store a program of 960 lines, > but of course. no programmer would ever need to..." ROFL! Which site? The payroll program I wrote and used at Consolidated Electronics was well over 960 lines so I had to use a 64KB pack. For tons of info, links, etc. please visit our ZX-TEAM website at: http://home.t-online.de/home/p.liebert/zx-team.htm For a nice listing of available hardware, try Jack Boatwright's site: http://www3.outlawnet.com/~jboatno4/ Of course, I'll be glad to help you as much as I can, so if you have any questions please don't hesitate. Later -- Glen 0/0 From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jun 16 19:40:08 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! In-Reply-To: <20020616192727.KMSU1087.imf13bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > No, but he could tap the composite signal off of the Timex pcb a feed a > composite monitor with it. I think that somebody who doesn't know the difference between RF and composite, should learn that FIRST. Then get or make the appropriate cable or adapter to connect the unmodified unit and confirm that it works, BEFORE making amateur modifications. THEN, he should make the mods and connect it to a composite monitor. When I got my first Coco (the day they arrived), I played with it for almost an hour before I opened the case, and didn't connect it to composite video until the next day. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 16 19:17:25 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jun 16, 2 11:01:06 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 398 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020617/aa617295/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 16 17:22:52 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: Computers in cars (was: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <3D0C0FDD.5010700@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Jun 16, 2 00:11:09 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 260 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020616/cac39851/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 16 17:30:41 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!! In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jun 15, 2 09:45:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1246 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020616/9b074c45/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 16 17:21:19 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: Does RF output equal Composite? In-Reply-To: from "Doc" at Jun 15, 2 10:44:54 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1460 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020616/35063a94/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 16 19:14:55 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! In-Reply-To: <3D0CCE96.5DAA2782@naffnet.org.uk> from "Dave Woodman" at Jun 16, 2 06:44:54 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1491 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020617/805be59e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 16 17:26:35 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! In-Reply-To: from "Doc" at Jun 15, 2 11:27:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1512 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020616/d535ea53/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 16 19:08:33 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! In-Reply-To: <3D0CA8E2.9C8B182D@ccp.com> from "Gary Hildebrand" at Jun 16, 2 10:04:02 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1802 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020617/9d464713/attachment.ksh From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Mon Jun 17 18:04:03 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: Network card for LaserJet Message-ID: > > Okay, Tony. You got me. I guess I should've said "...used for RS-232 >communication." > Or would it be RS-432? :P RS-4xx for almost all xx seems to end up being a serial protocol. RS-422/RS-423/RS-449 (and obviously RS-232) seem to be the most common ones but there seems to be a fair number of relatively obscure ones too. Antonio From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Mon Jun 17 18:02:20 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack Message-ID: >I don't think I learnt _one_ thing at school that has since been useful Not even wreading, riting and writhmetic :-) Antonio From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jun 17 18:18:13 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > > No, but he could tap the composite signal off of the Timex pcb a feed a > > composite monitor with it. > > I think that somebody who doesn't know the difference between RF and > composite, should learn that FIRST. Ouch! Guilty, as charged. That's what y'all are for. :) > Then get or make the appropriate cable or adapter to connect the > unmodified unit and confirm that it works, BEFORE making amateur > modifications. Done. I can now watch the weather in my office, too. ($5 B&W TV) > THEN, he should make the mods and connect it to a composite monitor. This I'll probably do. I don't mind much if I trash the TS-1000 - although I'd rather not. It's a low-priced, low-preference piece of my collection. Good for practice. And _yes_, Tony, I also have a couple of toasted PC adapters to get my soldering tuned up first. > When I got my first Coco (the day they arrived), I played with it for > almost an hour before I opened the case, and didn't connect it to > composite video until the next day. Remarkable restraint. Doc From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 16 19:08:33 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! In-Reply-To: <3D0CA8E2.9C8B182D@ccp.com> from "Gary Hildebrand" at Jun 16, 2 10:04:02 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1802 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020617/9d464713/attachment-0001.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 16 17:42:25 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <002901c21510$a7c28b80$0100000a@deepspacenine> from "Philip Pemberton" at Jun 16, 2 09:34:38 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2037 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020616/50e426e7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 16 13:42:06 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: Does RF output equal Composite? In-Reply-To: from "Doc Shipley" at Jun 15, 2 09:56:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2645 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020616/c6a83444/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 16 19:01:50 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! In-Reply-To: <3D0CC97F.4AB9BA32@gifford.co.uk> from "John Honniball" at Jun 16, 2 06:23:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2180 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020617/1910987c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 16 18:52:02 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:24 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jun 16, 2 07:21:09 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 7501 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020617/ba47bd75/attachment.ksh From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sun Jun 16 18:56:40 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: One SCSI tape connected to 2 hosts? References: Message-ID: <3D0D25B8.7DF17BA@ccp.com> "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote: > > Hi Bob, > > I've tried to connect a tape drive between a Windows 95? machine > and a FreeBSD machine with limited success. Windows issues a bus > reset whenever it gets confused (translate a lot!) which will > abort any transfer taking place from the MV3100. FreeBSD seemed > to be better about not bothering with the bus except for reboots, > but wasn't reliable WRT transfers. > > What you really need is a PC driver that accepts the fact it isn't > the highest priority device, and leaves the bus reset line alone. > > Clint > > On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Doc wrote: > > > On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Bob Lafleur wrote: > > > > > I've noticed that my MV3100's SCSI host ID's are set to 6 - I thought > > > this odd, as host ID's are usually 7. Are all MV3100's set to 6, or is > > > mine unique? Anyway, I thought since my PC's host ID is 7, I could > > > connect my SCSI tape drive to both systems. So I ran a cable from one > > > connector on the back to my PC, and a cable from the other connector to > > > my MV3100. I figure it's a properly terminated chain, as each host > > > controller is terminated (I know the PC is, I assume the MV3100 is). > > > > > > It *seems* to work OK. But can anyone tell me for sure if this is > > > "legal"? I'm sure I'm looking for trouble if I try to use the same tape > > > drive from both systems at the same time, but as long as I don't do > > > that, is this an okay setup? It would sure beat changing cables every > > > time I want to move the tape drive from one system to the other. > > > > Bob, > > A few of the older SCSI "how-to" pages diagrammed just such a setup. > > I've never seen it done in real life, but it always looked like a > > reasonable idea to me, too. > > I just found out, talking to my boss, that both native Solaris and > > Veritas Volume manager support that type of configuration. > > It's also relevant that you can run IP-over-SCSI between hosts, and > > ISTR that the original Beowulf code provided just that for fast > > intra-cluster communication. > > > > Doc > > > > I've seen that done with SCSI HD's and Amigas, but the booting was iffy. sometimes it worked, sometimes it would hang. Too bad SCSI is underused; it is already overpriced. But what you can (or could) do with it . . . . Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Sun Jun 16 17:07:01 2002 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: Lisa software archives Message-ID: <63846956@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Hi folks, A few years ago, I posted a webpage about Lisa/MacXL technical info: . I intend to add more stuff to it...someday. It's still up, but I noticed the other day that the Lisa software archive, hosted on a separate ftp server, was unreachable. I guess the sysadmin closed it down. However I snagged the files from a backup and moved them, temporarily, to my own machine (which has a semi-static IP, broadband). So, if anyone needs a copy of (de-serialized) Lisa Office System, LisaTest, MacWorks, etc. the disk images are now here: The link on the website has been updated as well. If any of you (Sellam?) had listed the ftp link separately, please update. I'll send another note when I have the new, permanent home for these files. Thanks, -- MB From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sun Jun 16 16:51:18 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: RKV11D - RK05 media to CD or other DEC media References: <3D0CFC77.BD1593E6@compsys.to> <33245.64.169.63.74.1024262191.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3D0D0856.138881DF@compsys.to> >Eric Smith wrote: > > Last week, I was able to borrow an RKV11D Qbus controller > > and copy most of the 17 packs (there were a few packs with bad > > blocks) with the RT-11 files to a CD. Within a few months, it > > should be possible to make these distributions available under > > the emulator license, just as V5.03 and V4.00 or RT-11 are now. > Not to complain, but why "within a few months"? Jerome Fine replies: Not to exaggerate the problems, but have you ever used RT-11? Have you ever tried to recover files when some of the blocks are bad? The process is extremely time consuming and requires great patience. > When I picked up the computer that those packs went with, I was > very discouraged to find out that the packs were already gone, > since I spent about $4000 making the trip and didn't wind up with > anything I could boot on it. Sigh. I was not sure when I arranged the trip if the RT-11 files would be carefully preserved!! Now that they are on the way to a CD, I am confident. > Anyhow, thanks for reading the packs and I look forward to the > images being available. You are welcome, how can I help? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From foo at siconic.com Mon Jun 17 17:05:55 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: Hello? Message-ID: Is the list still down? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From coredump at gifford.co.uk Mon Jun 17 17:34:23 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: Source for components on Internet? References: <3D0CA8E2.9C8B182D@ccp.com> <3D0CBABF.25FBC52E@naffnet.org.uk> <3D0CC97F.4AB9BA32@gifford.co.uk> <3D0CCE96.5DAA2782@naffnet.org.uk> <3D0CFF9E.B6DD0AC3@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <3D0E63EF.90631867@gifford.co.uk> "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > Does anyone have a recommended place to order stuff such as Resistors and > TTL from on the net? I've always had good results with Farnell: http://www.farnell.com/ And then there's RS Components, but I don't think they deliver to the USA: http://rswww.com -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon Jun 17 17:34:00 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: Source for components on Internet? References: <3D0CA8E2.9C8B182D@ccp.com> <3D0CBABF.25FBC52E@naffnet.org.uk> <3D0CC97F.4AB9BA32@gifford.co.uk> <3D0CCE96.5DAA2782@naffnet.org.uk> <3D0CFF9E.B6DD0AC3@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <3D0E63D8.869553A8@ccp.com> "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > Does anyone have a recommended place to order stuff such as Resistors and > TTL from on the net? I was at the local large seller of such stuff on > Saturday and half the stuff I wanted they were out of. > > Zane The best are: Mouser Electronics Jameco Dlectronics Digi-Key Hmmm you must have been at the Rat Shack in St. Joseph, aka the 'out' house. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon Jun 17 17:35:53 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: Sioux City hamfest References: <20020617174009.58739.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D0E6449.D90CFC0D@ccp.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > I even found one (wished there were more) AUI to 10 base T transceiver. > > Now I can check out my Amiga ethernet boards, if the Xcvr is okay . . . > > I saw piles of them at Dayton for $5 each. If I'd known, I'd have > picked up a few for you. > > -ethan > I'm still looking for more xceivers, 16 to be exact . . . . Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon Jun 17 17:44:40 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: Bulk Tape Eraser References: Message-ID: <3D0E6658.2BDB532@ccp.com> Chris wrote: > > I just found a box of stuff that hasn't seen the light of day since my > company moved to our current building some 15 years ago. > > In it was a Bulk Tape Eraser. The box pictures it being used on 5.25 > floppies (as well as an 8 track tape and reel to reel tape). Is it safe > to use on floppy disks? I have a stack of HD 3.5's that I want to blank > out. Previously I just run them thru a computer to format them, but if a > bulk tape eraser can be used, it just saves me the trouble. > > Also, how exactly are you supposed to use one? It has been as long since > I used one (probably this same one, used to use it to blank reel to reel > audio tapes). I thought I remembered that all you do is turn it on, hold > it over the item for a few seconds, wave it back and forth a bit, and > that was it. The item would be erased. > > I just tried this one on a VHS video tape, it doesn't seem to do anything > to it. The picture is slightly distorted, but the tape is certainly not > blanked, not even close. I left it on for a good 30 to 45 seconds (the > label on the side of it says 1 minute on 20 minutes off, so I didn't want > to go beyond 1 minute). > > It has a momentary switch on the handle, so it clearly isn't designed to > be left on very long. It makes a slight humm when on (and vibrates just a > touch, nothing visible, but you can feel it in your hand) so I assume it > is working. However, this is a Radio Shack brand item, so who knows if it > is doing what it should considering it is probably over 20 years old. > > Any clues? > yeah, they work great on floppies, even on some with soft errrors that formatting doesn't remove. Just keep in mind you'll still have to format the floppy after the degaussing. Wasn't suprised to see that it doesn't do VHS tapes very well. You need quite a bit more gauss to do those, but a hand held will do floppies, cassettes and 1/4" tape pretty well. To use, squeeze the trigger switch while the demagger is away from the media, and bring it up and slide it over and around in a random pattern for several seconds, 10-30 seconds is usually adequate, then remove the media while holding on to the switch. This eliminates a big glitch of magnetism on the media. What ever you do, DO NOT USE a degausser on a hard drive. There is embedded information on the tracks for tracking, and if removed, you need a high cost formatter. Bottom line . . . demag a HD and it becomes a doorstop. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jun 17 17:51:32 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: PET and Magic Sac+ In-Reply-To: <20020617164055.17711.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020617164055.17711.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >I did like Shapeshifter - a software-only Mac emulator for the Amiga. I >got a free license key for providing development assistance to the author. >It ran *concurrently* with AmigaDOS, and supported Ethernet. As a demo >at work (I had my A3000 on my desk when I was on the Ice), I showed my >Amiga booting System 7.something, then pull files off the Quadra 950 >to its left, while at the same time, surfing the web with AMosaic. I >even showed it surfing with Netscape under MacOS, but I had to shut down >the TCP/IP stack on the AmigaDOS side because there was no way for the >stack to know which OS wanted to see IP packets. As long as I didn't >use the same packet type, I could have both OSes using the hardware >via the SANA-2 driver and it knew where to deliver the packets to. A >second ethernet card would have done the trick, too - one IP address >for the Mac, one for AmigaDOS. I was one of the early registers of Shapeshifter and still have it running on my A3000. Unfortunately I've never been able to get it to work with my X-surf ethernet card. With the '060 and Cybergraphx on the EGS Spectrum it really flies but I usually have it running full screen. I've been told that if you use the nullsana.device that you can use both the Amiga and Mac sides with Miami at the same time. I've not tried it though. >I did not try running a DOS emulator under MacOS. :-) Just on a lark I loaded SoftPC onto System 7.1 under Shapeshifter. It was slow but it worked! It's fun to see just how many layers of emulation you can pile on top of each other and still have them actually functioning. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Mon Jun 17 17:32:14 2002 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: Wirth's first DEC Pascal Compiler References: <003401c214b0$4bda6a00$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <000001c21652$1bec5e40$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Anyone have a copy of this DECtape ? It's pictured here at the UVA computer museum http://www.cs.virginia.edu/brochure/museum.html More likely it was a compiler/pcode interpreter for a PDP10or 11, but I could be wrong. Year: 1969-70 http://www.threedee.com/jcm/psystem/ The ucsd p-system museum has a DCD6400 tape they can read with the source to a ver early Pascal system. Since Pascal was first written for the CDC 6600, the DECtape mentioned above was likely an early port. They give this link to a Jensen Wirth interpreter- but it's dead ftp://ftp.threedee.com/usr/syndesis/p2.zip Finding the files pasint.pas and pascom.pas on a PDP10 tape from ETH Zurich would be starting point. I was able to find source for a pascal -s compiler http://hjem.get2net.dk/bnielsen/pascals1.html regards h From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Mon Jun 17 18:00:19 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: One SCSI tape connected to 2 hosts? Message-ID: >My vaxstation 4000/60's host scsi id is also 6. The early DEC SCSI machines set the host adapter to ID 6, leaving the highest priority ID (7) free. I read something somewhere that suggested that this was insurance just in case something came along that demanded to be the highest priority thing on the bus. Apparently nothing did because the later machines allow the host adapter ID to be set via the console. Typically disks are given lower numbers than tapes, CDROMs seem to sit in the middle. I doubt that it matters in most configurations (it's certainly nowhere near as critical as, say, Qbus priority). Antonio From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jun 17 17:58:03 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: Philips and auction finds (was: Re: I hate Radio Shack) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Back to something more on topic... This last week at auction, I picked up >one of the oldest cd writers I've ever seen, which is ironically made by >Philips. It appears to have a SCSI interface, and seems to be in good >shape physically. If there is any interest, I'll update the list once I >get a chance to inspect it further and test it out. Which model is it? I think the CDD2000 was one of thier first CD-R drives. It's a standard HH SCSI drive, unlike older Sony drives that were rather large proprietary units. My guess is that they weren't quite as fast to release a CD-R to market as they were with CD-ROMs? Weren't they one of the original developers of the CD-ROM? I still have a CDD2000 as well as continue to use one of their Omniwriter's. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From allain at panix.com Mon Jun 17 18:02:29 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: Bulk Tape Eraser References: Message-ID: <001101c21653$338a6640$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > I left it on for a good 30 to 45 seconds (the label on > the side of it says 1 minute on 20 minutes off, so I didn't... The time I remember seeing one used: Move it like an iron, back and forth, back and forth. In general, moving magnetic fields are more influential than stationary ones. John A. From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Jun 17 18:19:26 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: Timex Sinclair 1000 Update and Questions In-Reply-To: <20020617005631.KNHL1202.imf01bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: > > Of course, I'll be glad to help you as much as I can, so if you have any > questions please don't hesitate. > > Later -- > Glen, isn't there a company out there somewhere that is selling unbuilt kits still? I seem to recall them going for $99. g. From rschaefe at gcfn.org Mon Jun 17 18:22:47 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: A VAX 6610 is rolling toward my garage ... References: <20020617165000.60908.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004701c21655$e5122cc0$82469280@kazenotani.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 12:50 PM Subject: Re: A VAX 6610 is rolling toward my garage ... > I have several hundred pounds of SDI drives. I'd be happy with > a couple for show (and interchange, perhaps), but SCSI for better You just said you had a couple SDI drives... :) > megabytes/pound numbers. > > -ethan > Bob From allain at panix.com Mon Jun 17 18:14:28 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!! References: Message-ID: <007101c21654$bb41a2a0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> >> Cable and Timex are the same for channels 2 through 13 (It's called >> "VHS"). Connect the Timex and tune the TV or VCR to channel 2 or 3. > VHS? Over here, VHS (Video Home System, I believe) is a popular format I believe the poster meant to say VHF. John A. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 17 18:08:54 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: Philips and auction finds (was: Re: I hate Radio Shack) In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Jun 17, 2 00:18:19 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1033 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020618/a2026729/attachment.ksh From jim at jkearney.com Mon Jun 17 18:09:03 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: Philips and auction finds (was: Re: I hate Radio Shack) References: Message-ID: <04bf01c21653$f97bec20$1301090a@xpace.net> >From: "Tothwolf" > Back to something more on topic... This last week at auction, I picked up > one of the oldest cd writers I've ever seen, which is ironically made by > Philips. It appears to have a SCSI interface, and seems to be in good > shape physically. If there is any interest, I'll update the list once I > get a chance to inspect it further and test it out. If memory serves (probably not), this is likely the second or third CD-R (after Sony) writer made. The first was made by Yamaha in a 2U rack-mount format, and cost a good $43,000. It was intended mostly for audio work but could make data discs as well. The Philips was the first (or second) writer intended mainly for data, though. I've got a Sony CDU-100 here that my company bought in mid-1986. This was the first CD-ROM reader available, though the much smaller and cooler Philips drive came out very shortly after. These drives are built like tanks, unlike the year-later Hitachi's that were very popular due to their low price. The Hitachi's also were a p.i.t.a. because of their drivers' software timing loops that broke every time the PC went from 4 to 6 to 8 to 12 Mhz. From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jun 17 18:10:42 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: Timex Sinclair 1000 Update and Questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Jun 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > The card-edge cartridge connector is worn nearly through the traces on > > the m/b. If the computer is jostled much at all, it loses the RAM and > > its little mind. Next mod will be to do some (cheesy, yes I know) wire > > FWIW, they did this when new. The UK magazines were full of jokes about > the 'wobbling RAMpack'. You could even buy moulded plastic trays to hold > the ZX81 and RAMpack to prevent the wobble. Argh. Can you say "duct tape"? > How did you connect it? (what output socket on the cassette recorder)? > Only connect the output lead (to the 'Ear' socket on the ZX81) at first > -- sometimes you get a feedback loop if you have both connected. Headphone socket to "Ear" on the TS-1000. I didn't hook up the Mic-mic line. Basically, I just want to test the program tapes, and will probably trade/sell the whole kit. Not that it's worth a lot. It's a little out of my preference range. I did pick up a $5 B&W TV today, and lo & behold - good video. The same store had an old GE mono cassette player, but it was marked "Classic" and they wanted $20. Not. Has anybody tried the older el-cheapo "walkman"-style cassette players with these? I can get those for $2 all day long. Doc From jingber at ix.netcom.com Mon Jun 17 18:08:19 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: Some Lisa Questions Message-ID: <1024355302.814.70.camel@netfinity> I have a floppy problem with a Lisa 2/10 (MacXL ?): After inserting a disk, a dialog appears (MacWorks XL) stating that the disk isn't formatted (it is). If I chose to eject the disk, the spindle motor continues to rotate. This doesn't happen during all ejects - it's an intermittent problem, but I have never been able to read from the floppy. This is a 400K drive. 1) I have cleaned the stepper cam, the head, and the ejection path and have lubricated various parts. The head travels properly and the ejection motor is functional. Where should I proceed? 2) The front fascia doesn't align properly due to the front of the 400K floppy protruding a few millimeters. The front will snap into place properly on the left 'catch', but is bulging out on the right catch. I can't see why this is so, as the drive case is flush with the chassis, and there is no possibility of the floppy sitting too far forward due to the recessed mounting screws. The floppy appears to be just too long (?) Has anyone else seen this. 3) Mouse related: How is the mouse supposed to secure to the connector on the motherboard? The mouse has the standard two thumbscrews, but the motherboard is lacking the metal jacket that would normally contain two nuts to recieve the connector screws - it's just the black plastic DB-9 connector. Something seems missing in this picture. Any clues? Thanks, Jeffrey H. Ingber (jingber _at_ ix.netcom.com) From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Jun 17 18:19:27 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: Misc For Sale In-Reply-To: <1024340680.14066.9.camel@thor> Message-ID: On 17 Jun 2002, brian wheeler wrote: > Sun > CG3 (sbus/SS5) 501-2691 [$25] $25???? I could hardly give mine away. If anyone needs more, I have some laying around too..... > HP > Envizex XTerm C2731A [$50] Similar comment to above applies here, unless it's been newer than 5-6yrs old. I've never paid more than $15 for an xterm.... > Radio Shack > Color Computer 2 (2x) [$10 each] > Speech/Sound Cartridge for CoCo (26-3144A) [$10] Those, however, are good prices... From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 17 18:33:22 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: (OT: video) Re: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! In-Reply-To: <007a01c2161b$75dde680$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Jun 17, 2 12:24:30 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1736 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020618/0d8a536c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 17 18:37:54 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: Other interesting Intel chips (was iAPX 432 (was Re: 88000 In-Reply-To: <200206171832.LAA16576@clulw009.amd.com> from "Dwight K. Elvey" at Jun 17, 2 11:32:51 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 438 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020618/2adcd038/attachment.ksh From vaxman at earthlink.net Mon Jun 17 18:49:19 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: Source for components on Internet? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I use digikey for most stuff. Their search engine is decent, and prices reasonably reasonable. And they take credit cards... Clint On Mon, 17 Jun 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Does anyone have a recommended place to order stuff such as Resistors and > TTL from on the net? I was at the local large seller of such stuff on > Saturday and half the stuff I wanted they were out of. > > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 17 18:50:45 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: Bulk Tape Eraser In-Reply-To: from "Chris" at Jun 17, 2 05:32:25 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1696 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020618/44039cb2/attachment.ksh From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Jun 17 18:59:38 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: RKV11D - RK05 media to CD or other DEC media In-Reply-To: <3D0D56B7.5818F290@compsys.to> References: <3D0CFC77.BD1593E6@compsys.to> <33245.64.169.63.74.1024262191.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3D0D56B7.5818F290@compsys.to> Message-ID: <53024.209.66.107.17.1024358378.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Jerome wrote: > Last week, I was able to borrow an RKV11D Qbus controller > and copy most of the 17 packs (there were a few packs with bad > blocks) with the RT-11 files to a CD. Within a few months, it > should be possible to make these distributions available under the > emulator license, just as V5.03 and V4.00 or RT-11 are now. I wrote: > Not to complain, but why "within a few months"? Jerome Fine replies: > Not to exaggerate the problems, but have you ever used RT-11? Have you > ever tried to recover files when some of the blocks are bad? The > process is extremely time consuming and requires great patience. That's fine, wish I could help out. I just misunderstood because I thought from your original message that you had *already* dumped images of the packs, so I wasn't clear on the nature of the delay. Anyhow, having this material available at all will be wonderful, so I certainly don't intend to criticize. Thanks for going to the trouble of doing this! Eric From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 17 18:57:25 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jun 16, 2 05:40:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 976 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020618/5c6fe241/attachment.ksh From sloboyko at yahoo.com Mon Jun 17 19:13:16 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: Source for components on Internet? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020618001316.24607.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> Although there are some "suspicious" clues in your website that you may be from Canada or England, I think you're in Oregon, so here goes with my (pretty well-researched) list of my favorites : Obvious Choices: www.jameco.com Not as good as they once were; still the best WW sockets, period. Seem to have fewer chips then before. Absolutely reliable, though. Who the HECK is buying their trailing edge PC crap at leading edge prices? www.jdr.com A shadow of their former selves. Barely worth a look. www.digikey.com Great stuff. Outrageous prices. Too bad. www.halted.com Somewhat disappointing; not everything in stock; I received chips with missing (!) legs - TWICE, once as a replacement for the first ones I got with a missing leg. Still a bargain here and there. Up and Comers: http://www.unicornelectronics.com/ My new favorite, for TTL (even some really obscure stuff); but check first on stock. Prices very good to excellent (better than Jameco generally); and, can't ignore the free (and quite speedy) shipping. PDF catalog. Very easy ordering, mostly electronic. http://www.bgmicro.com Very good stuff, very consistent, been in biz for years; keep your eye on their website. Some obscure chips, also. Lots of good hardware. Just scored the guts to a computer interfaced GPS unit for $25 there! (hurry!!) PDF Catalog. Good ordering, but not everything is electronically orderable. www.goldmine-elec.com Not too hot on chips but really good surplus; Not everything is electronically orderable; somewhat spotty in-stock + shipping, but if they have it, you'll eventually get it. Ebay Come up with a good search setup on eBay. You can find some real bargains in electronic components. I have NEVER ONCE been ripped off on eBay (after 100+ transactions) having to do with electronic/techinical stuff. http://www.alltronics.com/ Apparently sold off some of their stuff, but still worth a look. http://www.allcorp.com/ Not to be confused with the above. Some interesting surplus, some chips, but not always at the best prices. http://mpja.com Electronic ordering, some strange stuff, lots of hardware, very good prototype PCB's at excellent prices (from Hong Kong). Lots of power supplies of all kinds but not always very good prices on them. Not Entirely Electronic Surplus, but REALLY FUN OPTICS. www.surplusshed.com What Edmund was, except actually better, in optics. I have scored some optical stuff here that I pinch myself occasionally about owning. You've got to look at "new this week" early in the week, though, or you might be disappointed. Cheap and fast shipping. Can't say enough good about them. I would say, get used to not being able to just run out and pick up this stuff if you live in a large city. Things have REALLY dried up, even in a big city like Chicago. --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > Does anyone have a recommended place to order stuff > such as Resistors and > TTL from on the net? I was at the local large > seller of such stuff on > Saturday and half the stuff I wanted they were out > of. > > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems > Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS > Enthusiast | > | | Classic > Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role > Playing, | > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer > Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ > | __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From classiccmp at trailing-edge.com Mon Jun 17 20:08:54 2002 From: classiccmp at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: Source for components on Internet? In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Jun 17, 2002 10:38:00 AM Message-ID: <20020618010854.2D3B918336@mudd.trailing-edge.com> > Does anyone have a recommended place to order stuff such as Resistors and > TTL from on the net? I was at the local large seller of such stuff on > Saturday and half the stuff I wanted they were out of. Over three years ago I posted an article (below) to sci.electronics. design detailing my experiences and impressions. Since then, they've all improved, but Digikey remains the all-around best. They've done an excellent job of expanding their passive component lineup over the past couple of years and they still stock both TI and Fairchild TTL. Tim. From: Tim Shoppa Subject: Buying components on-line - my experiences Date: 1999/02/24 Message-ID: <36D3FE51.32DE1F02@trailing-edge.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Trailing Edge Technology Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.components,misc.industry.ele ctronics.marketplace Many of the big-name distributors have, in the past few years, added on-line ordering via the Internet as an option. Here I recount some of my experiences with on-line ordering from a few of the big names. A bit of background: I do rather small-scale electronic parts purchasing - electronics hardware is not my main business. But I do a small amount of one-off and few-off industrial controllers, adapters, and other custom jobs. Availability of the necessary parts in a few days is vital. For small things I can hit the local electronic shops, but for anything above something that I can dash off in an afternoon, I usually use a big-name distributor. My typical orders run from a few tens of dollars to around a thousand dollars, with a typical outlay in the range of a few hundred dollars per month. So I'm not a big-time industrial customer. I don't feel any need to establish a personal relationship with any particular supplier(s), I just want to know what's available now, and painlessly order it if it's available. I'm posting this "review" in the hope that future web-ordering implementations run smoothly for me and others. I'm trying to make the criticisms be constructive; in all cases I've sent my suggestions/complaints to folks at the respective organizations that claim to be responsible. Now, my reviews: 1. Digi-Key ( http://www.digikey.com/ ). Overall, Digi-Key has the best implemented on-line ordering system. Order entry tells you real-time stock status, each order is assigned a number by which it can be referenced, and I can electronically check the status of each order very conveniently after placing it. For each package shipped, I get a "clickable link" that takes me straight to the UPS/Fedex tracking page for that package. If I enter my customer number, I can easily check all orders that I've placed in the past few years (several dozen by now), whether I placed them over the web, by phone, or by mail. Digi-Key prides themselves at overall availability of product, and has several advantages over other vendors in this area. They claim that all orders entered into their system by 8 PM central will ship out same day, and this has been 100% true in my experience whether the order is by phone or over the Internet. (Several times I've come within a few minutes of the cutoff time and the order still shipped the same day.) They do occasionally go out-of-stock on some items, but thanks to the web I've noticed this while entering the order (if anything is on back order, it's boldly displayed) and found substitute items instead. Digi-Key doesn't stock as wide a variety of stuff as some of the other suppliers. In particular, they have a rather odd selection of IC's, and are very lacking in the industrial sensor/ motion control parts I sometimes need. But they've done a wonderful job at broadening their discrete component lines over the past few years, they're the best supplier I've yet found for PIC microcotrollers, and they're perfectly suited for handling many of my requirements. My only concern with Digi-Key is security related; in order to check my order status, all I need is my customer number and zip code, which anyone who raids my mail could find. In my case, I don't particularly care if anyone else knows what I'm building or who I'm building it for, and I'd be surprised if anyone did care. Of course, anyone could call Digi-Key up, knowing my name and address, and get my customer number without much difficulty from the order line, so the security issue isn't purely electronic, and it doesn't bother me at all in practice. 2. Newark. ( http://www.newark.com ). Newark has always been oriented, IMHO, towards selling to large corporations that do their buying through purchasing departments. This leaves an odd "flavor" to their business relations that I find unnecessary for my smaller orders. That said, the availability of on-line ordering from Newark has greatly increased the amount of business I do with them, as I don't feel awkward asking for one of this, two of that, five of these if I'm buying over the net. Newark's current on-line order entry system is pretty slick. I get real-time stock status, though the back-order status isn't as obviously displayed as in Digi-Key's system (in particular, I have to click on a "detail" display for each item that I've entered to see if it's actually in stock.) Newark's on-line database contains many items (especially semiconductors) not listed in their paper catalog, and this is a huge advantage to me. For many items, I can click and view other similar items from the catalog quite easily. Their search interface is quite complete. Newark's on-line ordering system shows several deficiencies after the order is entered, though. Often I've entered orders around 2 PM central time and not had them processed for shipment by the same day - despite the fact that Newark claims this is the case for every order. Often stock is split between multiple warehouses scattered geographically over a wide area, and I've sometimes been charged $3 in shipping for a $0.30 part. With the web interface, it's not possible to tell in advance if an order will be split like this. It seems to me that on-line orders are still entered into their computer system by hand, and it sometimes takes several hours for an on-line order to be acknowledged. In the acknowledgement, a salesorder ID number is mentioned - but often if I attempt to find the order status electronically I'm told that my salesorder ID doesn't exist. It appears that online order status requests are also done manually, as these are never acknowledged outside "ordinary business hours" and even if submitted during ordinary business hours it takes several hours to process. Only rarely do I get any useful tracking numbers if I request order status online. The Newark system completely falls over on any item that must be drop-shipped from the manufacturer - many transformers and other heavy items fall into this category. You can't tell whether any particular item is going to be drop-shipped until you get the order acknowledgment, sometimes several hours after you've submitted your complete order, telling you that this part number can't be ordered electronically, you've got to do it over the phone. This is an area where they really, really need to improve their system. At the very least, if a part isn't orderable over the Internet, you should be told that and not allowed to build it into your Internet order! 3. Jameco ( http://www.jameco.com/ ). I don't make many orders from Jameco these days, but they have a pretty good stock in semiconductors, "standard" connectors, transformers, wall warts, cheap tools, and PC-clone accessories. Unlike Newark or Digi-Key, when I order semiconductors from Jameco it's rarely obvious who the manufacturer is going to be. In the past few years Jameco's stock of discrete components has really taken a downturn, but the remaining discretes that they do still carry are always very inexpensive. Jameco's web ordering interface is pretty good. I've never ordered anything that turns out to be out-of-stock, so I can't comment on this part of the system. Jameco's after-order customer service (shipping status, tracking numbers) is completely unavailable over the web. You have to call them up by phone and ask. During some parts of the day, their phones are quite busy, but after getting a real person on the other end of the phone it's always been very quick and painless to get my order status. 4. MSC Industrial Supply ( http://www.mscdirect.com/ ). These folks aren't really electronics distributors, but they do distribute all sorts of mechanical items, tools, bits, industrial sensors, etc. MSC's on-line ordering page is almost non-existent - it's a completely "open" form where you fill in the part number from their Big Book, the quantity you want, and the price you think the Big Book says it costs. When you're done, evidently, this form goes to a real human operator who types in the order. While on-line, there's no way to check for stock availability, or even if the part number you've entered is a real part number that's in their system. You may as well order by fax as by on-line methods. On the other hand, MSC has always been very good for taking orders over the phone. Their web interface has a long way to go, and I'm going to stick with ordering from them by phone for now. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ From classiccmp at trailing-edge.com Mon Jun 17 20:14:35 2002 From: classiccmp at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: IMSAI News? In-Reply-To: <003201c215bf$2f06b220$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 16, 2002 11:23:58 PM Message-ID: <20020618011435.5059118336@mudd.trailing-edge.com> > If you poke around in the DigiKey catalog a little bit I'll be you can find > the TO-220 switchers that somebody or other sells. Yeah, Powertrends (now owned by TI) makes them. I prefer the NatSemi simple switchers over the all-in-one one Powertrend units, which are are largish chunks of epoxy and metal on the end of three TO-220 legs. > Another problem is that the small switchers still only put out about > a half to maybe one ampere, and I've got a few S-100 boards that have two or > three three three-amp regulators on them. The 150kHz and 250kHz NatSemi units are 5-legged TO-220's and do 3A and 5A quite comfortably. You need room for the inductor, of course, but small ones are very readily available. Tim. From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jun 17 20:22:08 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "motorola" instead of "RCA" "VHS" instead of "VHF" Some days, I shouldn't be allowed near a keyboard. Thanks, Tony, for catching my screwups. From zaft at azstarnet.com Mon Jun 17 20:22:44 2002 From: zaft at azstarnet.com (Gordon Zaft) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: One SCSI tape connected to 2 hosts? In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020616225257.01a0e940@pop1.epm.net.co> References: <000001c21544$02e64500$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020617182150.02420dd0@mail.azstarnet.com> At 10:52 PM 6/16/2002 -0400, you wrote: > >>>> >>Anyway, I thought since my PC's host ID is 7, I could connect my SCSI >>tape drive to both systems. So I ran a cable from one connector on the >>back to my PC, and a cable from the other connector to my MV3100. I >>figure it's a properly terminated chain, as each host controller is >>terminated (I know the PC is, I assume the MV3100 is). >> >>It *seems* to work OK. But can anyone tell me for sure if this is >>"legal"? I'm sure I'm looking for trouble if I try to use the same tape >>drive from both systems at the same time We used to share a SCSI 9-track tape between our two MicroVAXen, it worked fine for the most part. It was differential SCSI, I expect that was because the cables were pretty long. GZ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020617/e90750af/attachment.html From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jun 17 20:35:38 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: Other interesting Intel chips (was iAPX 432 (was Re: 88000 machines)) In-Reply-To: <200206171832.LAA16576@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: > The 432 stuff is really hard to get. I do have another almost as > hard to find Intel item. It is a evaluation setup for the i2920, > not to be confused with the AMD 2920. It is an early DSP chip. > It was Intel's idea of what should be done in DSP. It was not > too successful because it was not a general purpose type processor > like the TI and Motorola DSP entries. It was designed to do > a single program, repetitively. This was geared for the telecom market. I think some high end leased line modems used them. > Some of the other hard to find Intel parts are things like > the 8021 and 8022 parts. Although not as rare, the 3000 series > bit slice parts are getting harder to find as well but these > were used on many of the older Multibus disk controller cards. One part that really keeps bugging me is the old AMD database coprocessor. I can not remember the number (a 90Cxx maybe?), and it is killing me. Very cool chip, but I doubt it had any design wins. If anyone remembers this chip, or at least the number, please let me know so I can get some sleep at night. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Mon Jun 17 20:43:05 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! Message-ID: <20020618015259.ZGAE1185.imf06bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) > On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > > No, but he could tap the composite signal off of the Timex pcb a feed a > > composite monitor with it. > > I think that somebody who doesn't know the difference between RF and > composite, should learn that FIRST. Granted, but the difference was well explained in posts by others. > Then get or make the appropriate cable or adapter to connect the > unmodified unit and confirm that it works, BEFORE making amateur > modifications. The leads carrying the composite signal are bare, and exposed. A pair of clip leads is all that's required to gain access to that signal. > THEN, he should make the mods and connect it to a composite monitor. Sure, but if he's having trouble finding a modern TV with a tuner that "likes" the TS1000 (most modern TVs don't), then using clip leads to grab the signal would at least verify functionality of the computer. Bearing in mind that the TS1000 has been described as "common as cockroaches" (Sellam Ismael) and "an educational toy" (Richard Erlacher), plus the fact that the ZX81 was originally sold as a kit and zillions of them were assembled by schoolchildren, I think my advice was reasonably appropriate. Feeling grumpy today, Fred? ;>) Glen 0/0 From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Mon Jun 17 20:50:20 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!! Message-ID: <20020618015307.ZGDL1185.imf06bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > > Cable and Timex are the same for channels 2 through 13 (It's called > > "VHS"). Connect the Timex and tune the TV or VCR to channel 2 or 3. > > VHS? Over here, VHS (Video Home System, I believe) is a popular format > for domestic video tapes, and is nothing to do with RF interfaces. > > -tony A typo, no doubt he means VHF. Glen 0/0 From louiss at gate.net Mon Jun 17 20:58:15 2002 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: Source for components on Internet? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have found Unicorn Electronics and BG Micro to be excellent and low-priced. Here in Tampa, there are essentially no suppliers of hobby electronics. There is one remaining store in the next county, but they are on the verge of going out of business. There is a good store in Orlando, but that is a long drive and they are much more expensive than the mail order places. But still, shopping in person is a lot more fun. Of course, you can always use the big electronics places. Allied and Newark both have good service, in addition to Digi-key. But their prices are high. Louis On Mon, 17 Jun 2002 10:38:00 -0700, Zane H. Healy wrote: #Does anyone have a recommended place to order stuff such as Resistors and #TTL from on the net? I was at the local large seller of such stuff on #Saturday and half the stuff I wanted they were out of. From ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 17 20:56:00 2002 From: ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk (Greg Elkin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: DEC QBUS buffers/control chips In-Reply-To: <3D0D56B7.5818F290@compsys.to> Message-ID: <3D0EA140.6378.C275585@localhost> Hi list, Does anyone know of a web resource describing the functionality of the DEC QBUS interface chips, like the DC003(A), DC004, DC005, DC010, DC021(C) and others? I used to have a book on them when I was doing 8031 firmware for a QBUS card for one company I worked at, but that was 15 years or more ago... thanks, greg From foo at siconic.com Mon Jun 17 21:17:37 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: Sharp PC-5000 (early laptop circa 1983) for sale Message-ID: I'm selling a Sharp PC-5000 that is new in the box. The Sharp PC-5000 was one of the first clam-shell portables circa 1983 (the GRiD Compass and the Gavilan were it's contemporaries, as well as another one from Australia, called the DuMont or something). This is an awesome piece for any collection, especially those who collect portables and early laptops. They don't get earlier than this, and certainly not new, in the box. Pictures: The computer http://siconic.com/crap/sharp5000.jpg The box http://siconic.com/crap/sharp_box.jpg The manual http://siconic.com/crap/Sharp_us_g.jpg You also get a bubble memory module (sealed, new) http://siconic.com/crap/Sharp_Bm_box.jpg Best offer over $250 by Friday (June 17th) takes it. If there are no takers here, it goes to online auction. I accept PayPal preferably, check or money order will suffice if sent promptly. You, of course, pay all shipping charges. Please reply to Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From sloboyko at yahoo.com Mon Jun 17 21:28:32 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: Philips and auction finds (was: Re: I hate Radio Shack) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020618022832.38650.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> I think the BIG difference between "mechs" of today vs. yesterday, be it in printers, VCR's, floppies, etc, is cast aluminum vs. sheet metal. Things started to go to hell when cast machined aluminum was replaced by it. My first VCR had a massive cast aluminum platform. My first floppy drives, same. Diablo printers. You could drop all of those things out of an airplane and they'd stil be within tolerances. Alright, that's a stretch...but, its true. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From sloboyko at yahoo.com Mon Jun 17 21:34:48 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: Cosmac In-Reply-To: <20020617165954.95655.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020618023448.79022.qmail@web11802.mail.yahoo.com> I think the COSMAC was one of the first micro's to be rad-hardened, and it was thoroughly proven out logically - that is, all of the states were provable mathematically. I don't think that there is enough energy in the universe to power a Pentium IV long enough to go through every single distinct logic state. Interestingly, that little mars rover that was so successful and popular with the public - I think it used a ceramic 80C85. Obsolete, but simple and proven. --- Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Philip Pemberton wrote: > > Do any of your docs say what "COSMAC" actually > means? I was thinking > > along the lines of "Chip On Sapphire MAChine" or > something like that... > > Never thought of the origins, but that's an astute > guess. I just > figured it was a catchy name invented by marketing. > > > IIRC NASA used 1802s on some deep-space probes). > > Voyager I and II, and Galileo (a recycled Voyager > spare). > > In addition to radiation resistance, the 1802 works > down to 0 Hz - it > can be statically clocked - a buddy of mine built an > Elf in high-school > and didn't own an oscilloscope - for debugging it, > he used a debounced > switch and an analog VOM. He followed along the > timing diagram in the > RCA docs and manually toggled it through the states > (8 clocks per cycle, > 2 or 3 cycles per instruction). > > Unlike lots of modern processors, you can have an > arbitrary amount > of time between clock ticks, providing for serious > power savings > when a spacecraft is in > cruise-along-and-ignore-things-for-weeks > mode. Just set an "alarm" to speed up the clock > when an event comes > in, or every so often, then conserve for the rest of > the trip (the > Voyager frame uses plutonium RTGs (radio-isotope > thermal generators?) > for power, so it's not like you save on the > batteries, but the principle > is the same - don't stress the equipment if you have > nothing to do. > > The 1802 is one of my 3 favorite microprocessors. > As everyone else has > said, nice find. > > -ethan > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From sloboyko at yahoo.com Mon Jun 17 22:33:22 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: Trying to clean out garage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020618033322.52010.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com> I build "clones" of old computers: http://sloboyko.home.mindspring.com/pdp8e.htm http://8080geek.freeservers.com I'm very interested in: Some quantity of chips found on 486 boards as cache RAM; they are labelled HM6208HP-XX or something similar. These are for some PDP-8's I'm going to build. They're 24 pin skinny DIPs, almost always in ssockets. ANY boards you might have with socketed 2114's, for some 8008 clones I'm going to build A Dr. Dobbs with the "true" LI-Chen Wang Tiny BASIC in it (and yes, I AM crazy enough to type it in - I redid SCELBAL, the only BASIC-like 8008 language). You just can't find this anywhere in unmolested form. IF no one else wants it, the 8080 SBC board (I would like the chips for authenticity of my clone). I can assure you that none of these items will appear, except possibly in a rebuilt clone after my (hopefully, distant) demise, on eBay. Stuff I have to trade (or that you might want) A roll or fanfold box of genuine DEC paper tape (I'd punch something on it if you want, I don't know what you collect). I load Focal '69 via paper tape on mine. A known tested, working 6120 CPU (what I built my pdp-8 out of). In it's original DECMATE III CPU board, if you want it that way A ratty, but completely usable 1976 PDP-11 processor handbook A very simple textbook on assy lang programming of a pdp-11 A known working 8008-1 CPU chip Or, dough. I can't pick this up but nothing should be too bad to ship. I'd even send you a box! Let me know. Thanks! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From fernande at internet1.net Mon Jun 17 23:21:42 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: Computers in cars (was: I hate Radio Shack References: Message-ID: <3D0EB556.7020106@internet1.net> Tony Duell wrote: > FOrtunately London has a useable public transport system (and it's not > that expensive either). And yes, I have carried 19" rack units on the > bus/Underground.... > > -tony Do you mean a component that gets rackmounted, or a whole rack? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From donm at cts.com Mon Jun 17 23:37:23 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: Bulk Tape Eraser In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Jun 2002, Chris wrote: > I just found a box of stuff that hasn't seen the light of day since my > company moved to our current building some 15 years ago. > > In it was a Bulk Tape Eraser. The box pictures it being used on 5.25 > floppies (as well as an 8 track tape and reel to reel tape). Is it safe > to use on floppy disks? I have a stack of HD 3.5's that I want to blank Yep, the only time it is unsafe is when you discover that the one you degaussed had valuable data on it :) > out. Previously I just run them thru a computer to format them, but if a > bulk tape eraser can be used, it just saves me the trouble. > > Also, how exactly are you supposed to use one? It has been as long since > I used one (probably this same one, used to use it to blank reel to reel > audio tapes). I thought I remembered that all you do is turn it on, hold > it over the item for a few seconds, wave it back and forth a bit, and > that was it. The item would be erased. The usual technique on disks is to hold the eraser on the disk, make a few spiral `circles' on it and then draw the eraser about two feet away before cutting power. Because of the steel hub, 3.5" disks make a bit of racket when you work on them, but the only thing it hurts is your ears! > I just tried this one on a VHS video tape, it doesn't seem to do anything > to it. The picture is slightly distorted, but the tape is certainly not > blanked, not even close. I left it on for a good 30 to 45 seconds (the > label on the side of it says 1 minute on 20 minutes off, so I didn't want > to go beyond 1 minute). That is a fairly conservative limitation. Perhaps valid if in a production mode and total time is significant. > It has a momentary switch on the handle, so it clearly isn't designed to > be left on very long. It makes a slight humm when on (and vibrates just a > touch, nothing visible, but you can feel it in your hand) so I assume it > is working. However, this is a Radio Shack brand item, so who knows if it > is doing what it should considering it is probably over 20 years old. Yes, I have a couple of them - one larger than the other. Also, a tabletop model that is intended for 0.25" tape reels on home recorders. Used to use that to degauss 5.25" floppies. - don > Any clues? > > -chris > > > From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Jun 18 01:32:30 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: Pickup Help Needed in Georgia References: <20020617165954.95655.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004901c21691$ec310620$d02dcd18@wayne052602> Anyone within shooting distance of Macon, Georgia that can help me with a pickup? Nothing heavy. I will pay reasonable compensation. -W From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Tue Jun 18 04:47:07 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: Computers in cars (was: I hate Radio Shack Message-ID: >Do you mean a component that gets rackmounted, or a whole rack? I suspect a whole rack :-) Antonio From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jun 18 05:00:45 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: Timex Sinclair 1000 Update and Questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02Jun18.060255edt.119045@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >Glen, isn't there a company out there somewhere that is selling unbuilt >kits still? I seem to recall them going for $99. I believe Zebra was selling unbuilt ZX-81 kits, as well as various books and manuals and the Timex printer. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From kris at catonic.net Tue Jun 18 05:55:32 2002 From: kris at catonic.net (Kris Kirby) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:25 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A24@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Jun 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Well, my Hamer 5 string bass does quite well through the Peavey > head, and into a homemade 4 x 12" speaker cabinet. Yeah they're some old > generic 12" woofers, but they do 'boom' well, for now... :) How have you got the cab wired? Each side in paralell then in series with the one next to it? This might be a much cheaper alternative for me. But I'm wondering if I could cram a 15" into there somewhere. (15" + 4x 12"?) maybe an 8" as well in addition to some form of dome or horn tweeter... -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | IM: KrisBSD | HSV, AL. ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Tue Jun 18 06:45:49 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: Wirth's first DEC Pascal Compiler References: <003401c214b0$4bda6a00$023ca8c0@blafleur> <000001c21652$1bec5e40$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Message-ID: <3D0F1D6D.5B4B99A1@Vishay.com> Heinz, don't beat me if my memory plays tricks on me, but IIRC, I was using a Pascal compiler on a PDP-10 in the 1980s, and this compiler had something to do with the university of Texas and the university of Hamburg. If you consider this a serious hint, I might try to dig out some old documentation and see if any particular names or institutions are mentioned. No tapes, however, this is for sure. Sorry. Regards, Andreas Heinz Wolter wrote: > > Anyone have a copy of this DECtape ? > It's pictured here at the UVA computer museum > http://www.cs.virginia.edu/brochure/museum.html > > More likely it was a compiler/pcode interpreter > for a PDP10or 11, but I could be wrong. Year: 1969-70 > > http://www.threedee.com/jcm/psystem/ > The ucsd p-system museum has a DCD6400 tape they > can read with the source to a ver early Pascal system. > Since Pascal was first written for the CDC 6600, the > DECtape mentioned above was likely an early port. > > They give this link to a Jensen Wirth interpreter- but it's dead > ftp://ftp.threedee.com/usr/syndesis/p2.zip > Finding the files pasint.pas and pascom.pas on a PDP10 tape > from ETH Zurich would be starting point. > > I was able to find source for a pascal -s compiler > http://hjem.get2net.dk/bnielsen/pascals1.html > > regards > h -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Tue Jun 18 06:30:37 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! References: Message-ID: <3D0F19DD.3F06FE6F@Vishay.com> Tony, thanks for your excellent explanation of TV technology! I cannot remember having seen anything that compact, yet concise, before. And, yes, SCART is horrible, but unfortunately often no way around it. For the antenna cable... > Over here, we use a 'Belling Lee Coaxial Plug' (often called a 'TV coax > plug') for the RF connection (the rest of the world often call this a PAL > connector for some unknown reason). F connectors are used for the 1GHz (or > so) first IF of satellite TV receivers. 300 ohm balanced cable is > unheard-of for TV aerials over here. Is the "Belling Lee Coaxial Plug" what I know as an IEC-type 75 Ohm connector? - It has a larger diameter than F connectors, and is neither threaded nor otherwise locked (not like BNC, for instance). At least, this "IEC type" is the name by which catalogs list RF connectors for radio and terrestrial TV use in Germany (the difference between radio and TV is just male/female being reversed). For satellite TV, we also use F connectors (after the LNB has mixed the RF down from somewhere aroung 10GHz to somewhere around 1..2.15GHz). Balanced (unshielded) cable for TV antennas had been in use in Germany, too, but it had 240 Ohms impedance, and it was replaced by 75 Ohm Coax about at the time when valves were replaced by transistors. I still have one or two baluns, and some audio gear that requires them. It was kept around for audio somewhat longer than for TV, probably because it is easy to connect a dipol antenna for FM reception this way. In houses built during a certain period of time, you frequently find left-over 240 Ohm antenna cable in the low-voltage wiring for the door bell... -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From cbajpai at attbi.com Tue Jun 18 07:35:53 2002 From: cbajpai at attbi.com (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: Lisa software archives In-Reply-To: <63846956@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: <000901c216c4$afdd1d20$177ba8c0@ne.client2.attbi.com> Do any of you folks know where to disk find images of Lisa Pascal/Development kit? Also...How are the steps required to move them once they are downloaded (to a PC) and finally get them onto a Lisa? Thanks, Chandra -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Marion Bates Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 6:07 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Lisa software archives Hi folks, A few years ago, I posted a webpage about Lisa/MacXL technical info: . I intend to add more stuff to it...someday. It's still up, but I noticed the other day that the Lisa software archive, hosted on a separate ftp server, was unreachable. I guess the sysadmin closed it down. However I snagged the files from a backup and moved them, temporarily, to my own machine (which has a semi-static IP, broadband). So, if anyone needs a copy of (de-serialized) Lisa Office System, LisaTest, MacWorks, etc. the disk images are now here: The link on the website has been updated as well. If any of you (Sellam?) had listed the ftp link separately, please update. I'll send another note when I have the new, permanent home for these files. Thanks, -- MB From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Jun 18 07:46:00 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: Wirth's first DEC Pascal Compiler In-Reply-To: <000001c21652$1bec5e40$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> References: <003401c214b0$4bda6a00$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020618074319.0252ec18@pc> At 06:32 PM 6/17/2002 -0400, Heinz Wolter wrote: >They give this link to a Jensen Wirth interpreter- but it's dead >ftp://ftp.threedee.com/usr/syndesis/p2.zip >Finding the files pasint.pas and pascom.pas on a PDP10 tape >from ETH Zurich would be starting point. I haven't gotten around to setting up a good, safe anonymous ftp server since I became an ISP. I will e-mail that file to you. Below are messages from Wirth on this subject. As far as I know, he's got the tape but no 7-track CDC to attempt to read it. - John From: wirth@inf.ethz.ch Received: from lillian.inf.ethz.ch (root@lillian-ics.inf.ethz.ch [129.132.134.49]) by inf.ethz.ch (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id RAA09728 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 17:26:10 +0200 Received: from inf.ethz.ch (ceres16.ethz.ch [129.132.134.86]) by lillian.inf.ethz.ch (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA05757 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 16:06:22 +0100 Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 16:06:22 +0100 Message-Id: <199610071506.QAA05757@lillian.inf.ethz.ch> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit To: jfoust@threedee.com Subject: Source for early Pascal compilers? Dear Mr. Foust, I am sorry, but we don't have the source of the Pascal compiler any longer. It was in use her until about 1980, at which time we switched to Modula-2. Sincerely, Niklaus Wirth From: wirth@inf.ethz.ch Received: from lillian.inf.ethz.ch (root@lillian-ics.inf.ethz.ch [129.132.134.49]) by inf.ethz.ch (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id PAA25419 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 15:45:37 +0100 Received: from inf.ethz.ch (ceres16.ethz.ch [129.132.134.86]) by lillian.inf.ethz.ch (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id PAA09448 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 15:40:59 +0100 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 15:40:59 +0100 Message-Id: <199611051440.PAA09448@lillian.inf.ethz.ch> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit To: jfoust@threedee.com Subject: Source for early Pascal compilers? It appears that I found an old tape. However, nobody can read it, because it is a 7-track tape, and 7-track units have died out! Bad luck. N. Wirth From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Tue Jun 18 08:11:50 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: Bulk Tape Eraser In-Reply-To: <001101c21653$338a6640$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020618091150.01a7ce74@pop1.epm.net.co> At 07:02 PM 6/17/02 -0400, you wrote: >> I left it on for a good 30 to 45 seconds (the label on >> the side of it says 1 minute on 20 minutes off, so I didn't... > >The time I remember seeing one used: >Move it like an iron, back and forth, back and forth. >In general, moving magnetic fields are more >influential than stationary ones. > >John A. Wouldn't switching it on and off be many times more efficient at producing a time-varying field? :-) . carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From fdebros at verizon.net Sun Jun 16 10:42:35 2002 From: fdebros at verizon.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: VS4000/60 and VRE01 problems In-Reply-To: <20020616021649.GG14132@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <001901c2154c$70164280$6501a8c0@fred> I suspect the framebuffer is not compatible. I have an xf86config file that works graphics on the vre01 But on the 3100/76 and on the vt1200 the vre01 works in b/w and with the on-board framebuffer. Does the 4000/60 have similar output???? I should go ck myself as I have one of those... Fred -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bill Bradford Sent: Saturday, 15 June, 2002 22.17 To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: VS4000/60 and VRE01 problems Anybody had luck hooking a VAXstation 4000/60 with "GS-2" (?) graphics adapter up to a VRE01 flatpanel? I finally got the VS4K from Doc today (thanks for dropping it off, BTW, hope that mono video cable works for you), and got around to hooking it up to the VRE a bit ago. However, all is not right - there looks to be a scan rate/resolution mismatch, and I cant find ANY dipswitches, etc, to set.. Suggestions? Links to the 4000/60 owners manual possibly? I've got pictures of the results: http://gallery.mrbill.net/view_album.php?set_albumName=vre01&page=2 Any help appreciated. I'd LOVE to get this display working.. (and the pictures show the display as yellow - its actually orange..) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From eric at rothfus.com Mon Jun 17 11:40:08 2002 From: eric at rothfus.com (Eric J. Rothfus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: Nova 3 Message-ID: <1024329322@rothfus.com> Hi, Anyone out there have schematics or info for the DG Nova 3? I'm restoring one, and am having PS troubles. I could really use CPU and console schematics too. Thanks! Eric Rothfus eric@rothfus.com From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jun 16 20:16:22 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: Amiga / Spectrum magazines available in UK Message-ID: Contact the original sender directly if you are interested in these magazines. Reply-to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 09:47:04 +0100 (BST) From: J-P Subject: Amiga / Spectrum magazines Hi, I have a few years' worth of Amiga Format (1992-1994-ish) and some Crash, Amiga Computing, Sinclair User etc. plus odds and ends. I'd love to donate them, certainly to get them off my hands! Do you have anyone in the UK that can take them off me? J-P -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Jun 18 08:18:22 2002 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Re: Hello? MY BAD References: Message-ID: <003701c216ca$9faac910$9701a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Sellam wrote.... > Is the list still down? The list went down sunday early evening, and didn't come back up until monday afternoon around 4pm. This was totally my fault. It wasn't due to equipment failure or network outtage, it was my own absentmindedness. We went down the datacenter to completely de-rack and re-rack several cabinets to move servers around. For some reason, in the heat of the action, I skipped the classiccmp server with regards to reconnecting to power and network, so it was sitting in the rack turned off. I tested every system after moving them except the classiccmp server. I think this is best described as my brain slipping a gear. *sigh* My apologies for the temporary outtage! Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From geoff at pkworks.com Mon Jun 17 17:35:23 2002 From: geoff at pkworks.com (Geoffrey G. Rochat) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: Computers in cars (was: I hate Radio Shack Message-ID: <000c01c2164f$45f4e520$0377f4d0@dialup> >In Wellington, New Zealand, a large proportion of the traffic lights in >the central city (A city of 450,000 people) is controlled by a PDP11/34a. >This 11/34a has been in place since 1981, I believe, and since it just >continually does its job, its yet to be replaced. >They use a VAX of some description as a backup unit. > >At last count - which was maybe 3 or 4 years ago now - the unit hadn't >been power cycled since '84. > The really amazing part to all this is that they apparently haven't had a power failure in 18 years... From llstelck at cox.net Mon Jun 17 21:10:37 2002 From: llstelck at cox.net (LL Stelck) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: Update on finds Message-ID: <000601c2166d$56a38ac0$49410144@pn.at.cox.net> I am looking for a Gulton TR-711 Single Channel recorder. Do you know where I can find one? Larry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020617/c8a73f20/attachment.html From kees.stravers at iae.nl Tue Jun 18 04:49:27 2002 From: kees.stravers at iae.nl (kees.stravers@iae.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: Philips and auction finds (was: I hate Radio Shack) Message-ID: <20020618094927.7513C21262@eowyn.vianetworks.nl> On 2002-06-17 cctalk@classiccmp.org said to kees.stravers@iae.nl >>Back to something more on topic... This last week at auction, I >>picked up one of the oldest cd writers I've ever seen, which is >>ironically made by Philips. It appears to have a SCSI interface, Why is this ironically? Philips and Sony developed the CD standard together, so it would be natural that the oldest writers are Philips and Sony ones. Sadly I don't have one, they were incredibly expensive in those days. I do have the CM-100 and CM-110, the earliest Philips CD readers. Those were built like tanks and still work today. Kees. -- kees.stravers@iae.nl Geldrop, The Netherlands http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/ Member of Insomniacs Anonymous Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered From milneQDELETETHECAPITALSQ at speed.net Tue Jun 18 05:27:23 2002 From: milneQDELETETHECAPITALSQ at speed.net (milneQDELETETHECAPITALSQ@speed.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: UCSD P System (was: Why is it that ... Message-ID: <20020618032723.010498%milneQDELETETHECAPITALSQ@speed.net> > > At 06:07 PM 11/29/00 -0800, you wrote: > > >... > > >And it really didn't make PC-DOS look good. I've put a screen shot > > >of the UCSD P-system file manager prompt at: > > >http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/~korpela/gif/filer.gif. This is NOT the UCSD p-System filer, it's one belonging to a derived version of it that Apple briefly used on the Apple II. To give you a little context, this was version II of the p-System (the Roman numerals denoted architecture versions). The one released by SofTech Microsystems, on the IBM and the Sage and many others, was version IV, and it was a major overhaul. (Status of segments regularised, almost no limit on the number of segments in a system, all units swappable, dynamic linking, instruction set even more compact than before, procedural parameters, conformant arrays, semaphores, processes, etc. etc.) Including using 80 columns on the screens! (Actually you could change that in SYSTEM.CONFIG if you needed to, as seems clearly to have been done with this example). The filer used full names in its menus when it had the screen width to do so. Which was most or all of the time after those very early screens, unless, as I say, you did something to SYSTEM.CONFIG . As for making DOS look good, it made it look dreadful. I still remember the pain of migrating to Turbo Pascal, which was the BEST that DOS had to offer. Tiny file names, NO file typing (file extensions are NOT file types), terribly slow floppies, file volumes WITHOUT NAMES (which continues to this day), every program needing all its code linked into it statically, hence several copies of the same code on the same floppy -- etc etc. (DOS's only advantages: more flexible number of entries in a directory, and borrowing a poor man's version of directory trees from UNIX. The p-System only allowed 77 entries in a directory -- that was from a time when the DEC PDP-11 was popular -- and had only 1 level of "subdirectory", which was an actual subvolume file, of fixed size. And DOS was to acquire networking, whereas work on the p-System seems to have suspended before that could happen.) Oh, and the p-System had powerful wildcards, including use for mass name changes. DOS's wildcards were always weaker, and buggy. And I really did like being able to compile on a 68000 machine and run the compiled code on an 8086. Much faster turnaround time. (I once did a project where we were supposed to use the then-Microsoft Pascal on XT's for compiling -- all in native code of course. We stayed in UCSD Pascal and compiled within the p-System because it was FASTER!) > > >You may remember what those letters stand for, but I don't. > > ... > > > > For those not wanting to chase the link, it says: > > > > Filer: G, S, N, L, R, C, T, D, Q [1.1] > > > > Don't you remember? This was the security mechanism. > > You had to play a game of hangman and win before you > > could run the compiler. The person above obviously doesn't > > know the key to hangman is the vowels. I trust this misimpression is now corrected. > Hmm.... my versions show the menu as something like > > G(et, S(ave, N(ew, L(dir, R(en, C(hng, T(rans, D(ate, Q(uit > > but there are more options on an 80-column screen. > A. Milne From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Tue Jun 18 08:37:05 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: OT - DDS-2 drive errors on Microvax 3100, VMS 7.3 Message-ID: <003e01c216cd$3c7061e0$023ca8c0@blafleur> It seems like we get a lot of VMS questions here, which probably doesn't really fall directly under the list rules. I'm guilty of it too. But there's so much knowledge here, it's hard not to ask. If anyone can point me in the direction of an active VMS mailing list, I'll ask my VMS questions there instead. And if there's not one, I'd consider setting one up if there happens to be any mailing list software that works with Exchange Server 2000. ----- I've got my ARCHIVE Python (model 4326) DDS-2 drive connected to my MV3100. It is connected to that machine only (I don't have it dual-connected, as discussed in another message thread) and it's on my 2nd SCSI controller chain. When I first boot the system, the first restore I do from tape I get this message: $ backup mkb100:rob/save *.* %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, ROB mounted on _BOB$MKB100: %BACKUP-E-READERRS, excessive error rate reading MKB100:[000000]ROB.; -SYSTEM-F-CTRLERR, fatal controller error %BACKUP-I-OPERSPEC %BACKUP-I-OPERASSIST, operator assistance has been requested I then get "fatal controller error" messages whenever I try to access the drive, until I turn it off and back on. After the above erorr, the device shows 102 errors in SHOW DEVICE. Once the drive is turned off and back on, it works fine from then on, with no problems. If I boot the system, then turn the drive off, and back on, I *still* get this message for the first restore I do. Then I turn the drive off and back on, and all is OK. If the first operation I do after booting is a backup TO tape, it goes fine with no problems. But then when I try to do a restore from tape, I still get the above error. I've updated the drive's firmware to what I believe to be the latest (28388-XXX V5.AQ). Right now I have the drive in an external enclosure to test it. I was going to mount it internally in the MV3100, but if I have to power the drive down to make it work, then internal mounting is not possible. Could it be a SCSI termination problem? The drive works flawlessly on my PC. Thanks, - Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020618/d2e3349d/attachment.html From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jun 18 08:38:17 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: IMSAI News? References: <20020618011435.5059118336@mudd.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <001d01c216cd$67a57a80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> There are some "ready-to-use" products in this line from NS. That gives you a PCB about 1.5" x 0.5" x 0.6" high with unregulated power in and regulated power out, with a common connection at ground. I think they call this an evaluation unit, but they sell 'em. There's still no ideal solution. The smallish NS products are still too large, as are the PowerTrends products. I guess it depends on how much of a kludge you're willing to put on your boards. I personally believe the S-100 is S-100 and it should be run from an unregulated supply using the on-board regulators for which the original design made provision. If you want something else, you can use something more modern, but don't try to fool yourself in to believing it's S-100 when you're done. I rather believe that Todd Fischer's goal in using a switcher was based on the low cost of the "PC" switcher, which is grossly overrated, power-wise, and its relatively low shipping weight. My belief is that if you want to run classic hardware, you should run it as shipped. If you don't need to run the classic hardware, then run a simulator. It's less costly and runs lots faster. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Shoppa" To: Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 7:14 PM Subject: Re: IMSAI News? > > If you poke around in the DigiKey catalog a little bit I'll be you can find > > the TO-220 switchers that somebody or other sells. > > Yeah, Powertrends (now owned by TI) makes them. I prefer the NatSemi > simple switchers over the all-in-one one Powertrend units, which are > are largish chunks of epoxy and metal on the end of three TO-220 legs. > > > Another problem is that the small switchers still only put out about > > a half to maybe one ampere, and I've got a few S-100 boards that have two or > > three three three-amp regulators on them. > > The 150kHz and 250kHz NatSemi units are 5-legged TO-220's and do 3A and > 5A quite comfortably. You need room for the inductor, of course, but > small ones are very readily available. > > Tim. > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jun 18 08:39:49 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: Source for components on Internet? References: <20020618010854.2D3B918336@mudd.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <002301c216cd$9df54980$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Don't forget about www.mpja.com and www.mouser.com. They have things like heatsinks, resistors, etc, that you find difficult to find elsewhere. It's always fun to browse their inventory. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Shoppa" To: Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 7:08 PM Subject: Re: Source for components on Internet? > > Does anyone have a recommended place to order stuff such as Resistors and > > TTL from on the net? I was at the local large seller of such stuff on > > Saturday and half the stuff I wanted they were out of. > > Over three years ago I posted an article (below) to sci.electronics. > design detailing my experiences and impressions. Since then, they've > all improved, but Digikey remains the all-around best. They've done > an excellent job of expanding their passive component lineup over the > past couple of years and they still stock both TI and Fairchild TTL. > > Tim. > > From: Tim Shoppa > Subject: Buying components on-line - my experiences > Date: 1999/02/24 > Message-ID: <36D3FE51.32DE1F02@trailing-edge.com> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Organization: Trailing Edge Technology > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.components,misc.industry.ele > ctronics.marketplace > > > Many of the big-name distributors have, in the past few years, > added on-line ordering via the Internet as an option. Here > I recount some of my experiences with on-line ordering from > a few of the big names. > > A bit of background: I do rather small-scale electronic parts > purchasing - electronics hardware is not my main business. But > I do a small amount of one-off and few-off industrial controllers, > adapters, and other custom jobs. Availability of the necessary parts > in a few days is vital. For small things I can hit the local > electronic shops, but for anything above something that > I can dash off in an afternoon, I usually use a big-name distributor. > My typical orders run from a few tens of dollars to around a > thousand dollars, with a typical outlay in the range of a few > hundred dollars per month. So I'm not a big-time industrial > customer. I don't feel any need to establish a personal relationship > with any particular supplier(s), I just want to know what's > available now, and painlessly order it if it's available. > > I'm posting this "review" in the hope that future web-ordering > implementations run smoothly for me and others. I'm trying > to make the criticisms be constructive; in all cases I've sent > my suggestions/complaints to folks at the respective organizations > that claim to be responsible. > > Now, my reviews: > > 1. Digi-Key ( http://www.digikey.com/ ). Overall, Digi-Key has > the best implemented on-line ordering system. Order entry tells > you real-time stock status, each order is assigned a number by which > it can be referenced, and I can electronically check the status > of each order very conveniently after placing it. For each package > shipped, I get a "clickable link" that takes me straight to the > UPS/Fedex tracking page for that package. If I enter my customer > number, I can easily check all orders that I've placed in the past > few years (several dozen by now), whether I placed them over the > web, by phone, or by mail. > > Digi-Key prides themselves at overall availability of product, and > has several advantages over other vendors in this area. They claim > that all orders entered into their system by 8 PM central will > ship out same day, and this has been 100% true in my experience whether > the order is by phone or over the Internet. (Several times I've come > within a few minutes of the cutoff time and the order still shipped > the same day.) They do occasionally go out-of-stock on some items, > but thanks to the web I've noticed this while entering the order > (if anything is on back order, it's boldly displayed) and found > substitute items instead. > > Digi-Key doesn't stock as wide a variety of stuff as some of > the other suppliers. In particular, they have a rather odd > selection of IC's, and are very lacking in the industrial sensor/ > motion control parts I sometimes need. But they've done a wonderful > job at broadening their discrete component lines over the past few > years, they're the best supplier I've yet found for PIC microcotrollers, > and they're perfectly suited for handling many of my requirements. > > My only concern with Digi-Key is security related; in order to > check my order status, all I need is my customer number and zip > code, which anyone who raids my mail could find. In my case, I > don't particularly care if anyone else knows what I'm building or > who I'm building it for, and I'd be surprised if anyone did care. > Of course, anyone could call Digi-Key up, knowing my name and address, > and get my customer number without much difficulty from the order line, > so the security issue isn't purely electronic, and it doesn't > bother me at all in practice. > > 2. Newark. ( http://www.newark.com ). Newark has always been > oriented, IMHO, towards selling to large corporations that do their > buying through purchasing departments. This leaves an odd "flavor" > to their business relations that I find unnecessary for my smaller > orders. That said, the availability of on-line ordering from Newark > has greatly increased the amount of business I do with them, as I > don't feel awkward asking for one of this, two of that, five of these > if I'm buying over the net. > > Newark's current on-line order entry system is pretty slick. I get > real-time stock status, though the back-order status isn't > as obviously displayed as in Digi-Key's system (in particular, I have > to click on a "detail" display for each item that I've entered to > see if it's actually in stock.) > > Newark's on-line database contains many > items (especially semiconductors) not listed in their paper catalog, > and this is a huge advantage to me. > For many items, I can click and view other similar items from the > catalog quite easily. Their search interface is quite complete. > > Newark's on-line ordering system shows several deficiencies after > the order is entered, though. Often I've entered orders around > 2 PM central time and not had them processed for shipment by the > same day - despite the fact that Newark claims this is the case > for every order. Often stock is split between multiple warehouses > scattered geographically over a wide area, and I've sometimes been > charged $3 in shipping for a $0.30 part. With the web interface, > it's not possible to tell in advance if an order will be split like > this. It seems to me that on-line orders are still entered into > their computer system by hand, and it sometimes takes several hours > for an on-line order to be acknowledged. In the acknowledgement, > a salesorder ID number is mentioned - but often if I attempt > to find the order status electronically I'm told that my salesorder > ID doesn't exist. It appears that online order status requests are > also done manually, as these are never acknowledged outside > "ordinary business hours" and even if submitted during ordinary > business hours it takes several hours to process. Only rarely do > I get any useful tracking numbers if I request order status online. > > The Newark system completely falls over on any item that must be > drop-shipped from the manufacturer - many transformers and other > heavy items fall into this category. You can't tell whether any > particular item is going to be drop-shipped until you get the order > acknowledgment, sometimes several hours after you've submitted your > complete order, telling you that this part number can't be > ordered electronically, you've got to do it over the phone. This > is an area where they really, really need to improve their system. > At the very least, if a part isn't orderable over the Internet, you > should be told that and not allowed to build it into your Internet > order! > > 3. Jameco ( http://www.jameco.com/ ). I don't make many orders > from Jameco these days, but they have a pretty good stock in > semiconductors, "standard" connectors, transformers, wall warts, cheap > tools, and PC-clone accessories. Unlike Newark or Digi-Key, when > I order semiconductors from Jameco it's rarely obvious who the > manufacturer is going to be. In the past few years Jameco's > stock of discrete components has really taken a downturn, but > the remaining discretes that they do still carry are always very > inexpensive. > Jameco's web ordering interface is pretty good. I've never ordered > anything that turns out to be out-of-stock, so I can't comment on > this part of the system. > > Jameco's after-order customer service (shipping status, tracking > numbers) is completely unavailable over the web. You have to call > them up by phone and ask. During some parts of the day, their > phones are quite busy, but after getting a real person on the other > end of the phone it's always been very quick and painless to get > my order status. > > 4. MSC Industrial Supply ( http://www.mscdirect.com/ ). These > folks aren't really electronics distributors, but they do distribute > all sorts of mechanical items, tools, bits, industrial sensors, > etc. MSC's on-line ordering page is almost non-existent - it's > a completely "open" form where you fill in the part number from their > Big Book, the quantity you want, and the price you think the Big > Book says it costs. When you're done, evidently, this form goes > to a real human operator who types in the order. While on-line, > there's no way to check for stock availability, or even if the part > number you've entered is a real part number that's in their system. > You may as well order by fax as by on-line methods. > > On the other hand, MSC has always been very good for taking orders > over the phone. Their web interface has a long way to go, and I'm > going to stick with ordering from them by phone for now. > > -- > Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com > Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jun 18 08:40:57 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: Source for components on Internet? References: Message-ID: <002f01c216cd$c7f627e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Another VERY IMPORTANT feature is that they don't insist on using UPS. They'll ship things via USPS, which may make it reasonable to order a small lot of parts. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" To: Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 5:49 PM Subject: Re: Source for components on Internet? > > I use digikey for most stuff. Their search engine is decent, and > prices reasonably reasonable. And they take credit cards... > > Clint > > On Mon, 17 Jun 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > Does anyone have a recommended place to order stuff such as Resistors and > > TTL from on the net? I was at the local large seller of such stuff on > > Saturday and half the stuff I wanted they were out of. > > > > Zane > > -- > > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > > | | Classic Computer Collector | > > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > > > > From allain at panix.com Tue Jun 18 08:43:21 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: LSI ADM3A EBAY References: Message-ID: <004501c216ce$1d1fe9e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> There's one up just now in L.A. with a buy it now of $25. John A. count the minutes From at258 at osfn.org Tue Jun 18 08:48:06 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: Computers in cars (was: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have this bizarre image of Tony and friends rolling six full sized racks into a Bulleid Waterloo and City car. On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, Antonio Carlini wrote: > >Do you mean a component that gets rackmounted, or a whole rack? > > I suspect a whole rack :-) > > Antonio > > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From at258 at osfn.org Tue Jun 18 08:51:39 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: Centris 610 In-Reply-To: <3D0F19DD.3F06FE6F@Vishay.com> Message-ID: We've just been offered a number of MAC Centris 610's. We are probably going to pass on them, unless there are people here that might be interested. In that case we would take them and immediately pass them along. Rhode Island Computer Museum From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Tue Jun 18 08:58:38 2002 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: A VAX 6610 is rolling toward my garage ... References: <20020617165000.60908.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> <004701c21655$e5122cc0$82469280@kazenotani.net> Message-ID: <005301c216d0$40f74230$0300a8c0@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Schaefer" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 8:52 AM Subject: Re: A VAX 6610 is rolling toward my garage ... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ethan Dicks" > To: > Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 12:50 PM > Subject: Re: A VAX 6610 is rolling toward my garage ... > > > > I have several hundred pounds of SDI drives. I'd be happy with > > a couple for show (and interchange, perhaps), but SCSI for better > > You just said you had a couple SDI drives... :) Considering an RA8x weighs in around 64Kg, yes. :^) geoff in oz From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jun 18 08:59:27 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: Philips and auction finds (was: I hate Radio Shack) In-Reply-To: <20020618094927.7513C21262@eowyn.vianetworks.nl> References: <20020618094927.7513C21262@eowyn.vianetworks.nl> Message-ID: <02Jun18.100141edt.119046@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >Why is this ironically? Philips and Sony developed the CD standard >together, so it would be natural that the oldest writers are Philips >and Sony ones. Sadly I don't have one, they were incredibly expensive >in those days. I do have the CM-100 and CM-110, the earliest Philips >CD readers. Those were built like tanks and still work today. My first reader was a Philips CM-205/206 with it' proprietary interface card. Had a lot of fun (not) getting it to run under OS/2. I also had a system full of 8bit ISA boards and was constantly playing the IRQ shuffle. Never did get the CM-205 and a Pro AudioSpectrum running under OS/2 together with an ATI VGAWonder XL/24. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Jun 18 09:08:05 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: Timex Sinclair 1000 Update and Questions In-Reply-To: <02Jun18.060255edt.119045@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: > >Glen, isn't there a company out there somewhere that is selling unbuilt > >kits still? I seem to recall them going for $99. > > I believe Zebra was selling unbuilt ZX-81 kits, as well as > various books and manuals and the Timex printer. > Thanks Jeff. I did some digging and found it at http://users.rcn.com/zebra.interport/ts2/products/index.html What's the difference between the TS-1000 and the ZX81? Just the name? g. From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jun 18 09:09:53 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: LSI ADM3A EBAY In-Reply-To: <004501c216ce$1d1fe9e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <004501c216ce$1d1fe9e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <02Jun18.101200edt.119046@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >There's one up just now in L.A. with a buy it now of $25. The seller keeps relisting it. He states in the listing that he released the magic smoke. Might not be bad for someone fairly close to him who might want it to tinker with. It wouldn't be worth it to me to have it shipped to the east coast though. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Jun 18 09:20:18 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: Now OT: Speaker boxes... [was:: I hate Radio Shack] Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A28@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Replies to this should probably go off-list now :) > From: Kris Kirby > > On Mon, 17 Jun 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > Well, my Hamer 5 string bass does quite well through the Peavey > > head, and into a homemade 4 x 12" speaker cabinet. Yeah they're some old > > generic 12" woofers, but they do 'boom' well, for now... :) > > How have you got the cab wired? Each side in paralell then in series with > the one next to it? > > This might be a much cheaper alternative for me. But I'm wondering if I > could cram a 15" into there somewhere. (15" + 4x 12"?) maybe an 8" as well > in addition to some form of dome or horn tweeter... > > -- > Let's see, each woofer is 8 ohms, so I have each side wired in parallel to their own 1/4" socket on the back, so they'll show 4 ohms. My head has two speaker jacks, so I can have it see 2 8 ohm speakers, or wire in a homemade adapter so it will see a 2 ohm load. I've been thinking about wiring in some DPDT switches, so I can flip each side between 2 & 4 ohms. Depending on how much you travel with those speakers, here's how I would set up the boxes... - 15" in a ported box, all by itself. It'll be heavy. Nice boom for the bottom end. - 4 x 12" in a sealed box. Good tight response, but still has the bottom. This could be used by itself quite nicely. - 8" (or two) in a sealed box with a good horn tweeter. This would go best used with the 15" cabinet, and an appropriate crossover. Maybe your amp has one built in*. It will also be good for practicing by yourself. Nice & tight response, and great if you play some funk style too. * My Peavey does have a built-in adjustable crossover, but it's pre-amp level. I then have to amp each side after that. One would get looped back into the Peavey, and the other to a second power amp... And hopefully you know the make and model numbers for those woofers. That will be required if you want to build the best boxes possible for them. I picked up the 2 speaker design books from Radio Shack to help with the box design. Blaupunkt also has a basic DOS program to help with box design too. The RS books had some decent rough size info for speakers, so I assumed some average-low specs for my 12s went I calculated the box size. I know the box is a little small for them. you can kinda hear it. But I don't have the test equipment needed to find the real specs for these drivers, yet :) I'm working on a spreadsheet that has all of the formulas built in, to help design different boxes. I'm not sure if I have it finished yet or not, though... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jun 18 09:14:27 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: Indigo2 and Exabyte 8200 In-Reply-To: <003e01c216cd$3c7061e0$023ca8c0@blafleur> References: <003e01c216cd$3c7061e0$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <02Jun18.101631edt.119046@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Well I finally found a system that still likes my Exabyte 8200. My Mac's have never liked it and my Amiga's were tempermental with it, not always working. My SGI Indigo2 appears to happily deal with it though, even if it is quite slow. Is there a way of making a backup done to it bootable? Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jun 18 09:19:04 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: Timex Sinclair 1000 Update and Questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02Jun18.102243edt.119047@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >What's the difference between the TS-1000 and the ZX81? Just the name? Mainly that the TS-1000 has 2k of RAM built-in vice the ZX-81's 1k. Otherwise I think they're nearly identical to each other in the same markets. The cases are also nearly the same with the exception of the labels. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From bdwheele at indiana.edu Tue Jun 18 09:29:43 2002 From: bdwheele at indiana.edu (brian wheeler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: Misc For Sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1024410583.408.2.camel@thor> I was being an optimist! In any case, all of the items are 'or best offer' so go nuts :) Brian On Mon, 2002-06-17 at 18:19, Pat Finnegan wrote: > On 17 Jun 2002, brian wheeler wrote: > > > Sun > > CG3 (sbus/SS5) 501-2691 [$25] > > $25???? I could hardly give mine away. If anyone needs more, I have some > laying around too..... > > > HP > > Envizex XTerm C2731A [$50] > > Similar comment to above applies here, unless it's been newer than 5-6yrs > old. I've never paid more than $15 for an xterm.... > > > Radio Shack > > Color Computer 2 (2x) [$10 each] > > Speech/Sound Cartridge for CoCo (26-3144A) [$10] > > Those, however, are good prices... From jplist at globe.net.nz Tue Jun 18 10:38:17 2002 From: jplist at globe.net.nz (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: Computers in cars (PDP11/34a in NZ) In-Reply-To: <000c01c2164f$45f4e520$0377f4d0@dialup> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Jun 2002, Geoffrey G. Rochat wrote: > >At last count - which was maybe 3 or 4 years ago now - the unit hadn't > >been power cycled since '84. > > > The really amazing part to all this is that they apparently haven't had > a power failure in 18 years... Ever heard of a UPS? JP From dario.rodriguez at edc.ericsson.se Tue Jun 18 08:45:12 2002 From: dario.rodriguez at edc.ericsson.se (Dario Rodriguez (EDC)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: HP 9825B Message-ID: <686A090EA54ED311AD1A0008C79A7048027121F9@EAMBGNT700> Hello Team Excuse me, but the Christian Fandt e-mail address have not been available could Somebody help me please???? Thank you very much for your attention. Best Regards Dario Rodriguez. ================================================================================================== Hello Christian Fandt, I hope you are ok.. My name is Dar?o Rodriguez and I work at Ericsson de Colombia Repair Center.I am in charge of equipment maintenance. We have a equipment which is controlled by a Hewlett Packard calculator reference: HP 9825B that we looked at your web site http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/2000-08/0176.html We will really appreciate you help us to know if is still available to buy this unit, because our calculator is not working very well now, and one new could be better to us,or if it is not available, maybe, could you please help us to know if this calculator is replaced by other one?, In the past we tried to replace this one by a Computer interface, but It have not been possible, do you know where do we find information about this process?, Thank you very much for your attention, We will expect your comments about this matter, Best Regards Dario Rodriguez. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020618/163e34cd/attachment.html From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Jun 18 10:51:22 2002 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: Computers in cars (PDP11/34a in NZ) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200206181551.KAA14172@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > > On Mon, 17 Jun 2002, Geoffrey G. Rochat wrote: > > >At last count - which was maybe 3 or 4 years ago now - the unit hadn't > > >been power cycled since '84. > > > > > The really amazing part to all this is that they apparently haven't had > > a power failure in 18 years... > > Ever heard of a UPS? > Yes, I hear UPS's all the time, down in the machine room. They're the boxes that are always beeping to tell us their very few years old batteries arent working anymore. We connect them to our uninterruptable power, which is fed by two separate power stations and some device switches power immediately if one feed loses power. That device hasnt worked properly in the 12 years its been installed... So much for a 12-13 year old, 'modern' computer science building. -Lawrence LeMay From jplist at globe.net.nz Tue Jun 18 11:13:47 2002 From: jplist at globe.net.nz (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: Computers in cars (PDP11/34a in NZ) In-Reply-To: <200206181551.KAA14172@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > The really amazing part to all this is that they apparently haven't had > > > a power failure in 18 years... > > Ever heard of a UPS? > Yes, I hear UPS's all the time, down in the machine room. They're the boxes > that are always beeping to tell us their very few years old batteries arent > working anymore. We connect them to our uninterruptable power, which is fed > by two separate power stations and some device switches power immediately > if one feed loses power. That device hasnt worked properly in the 12 years > its been installed... Heh. The big APC UPS at the ISP I worked at we had running bets that in a power outage it'd last maybe 12 seconds. When the power outage came, who'd a thought? 15 minutes! A record. The last I heard, the longest uptime for any machine was a Digital Tandem in a mine complex in Arizona, 22 years, and that was back in 2000. Not surprisingly it was Compaq dudes trying to sell me an AlphaServer at the time, but I believe him. JP From mrbill at mrbill.net Tue Jun 18 11:19:00 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: VS4000/60 and VRE01 problems In-Reply-To: <001901c2154c$70164280$6501a8c0@fred> References: <20020616021649.GG14132@mrbill.net> <001901c2154c$70164280$6501a8c0@fred> Message-ID: <20020618161900.GG6613@mrbill.net> On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 11:42:35AM -0400, Fred deBros wrote: > I suspect the framebuffer is not compatible. > I have an xf86config file that works graphics on the vre01 > But on the 3100/76 and on the vt1200 the vre01 works in b/w and with > the on-board framebuffer. Does the 4000/60 have similar output???? I > should go ck myself as I have one of those... It does, but I gave my cable for that to Doc. 8-( Doc? Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From mythtech at mac.com Tue Jun 18 11:30:37 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: Bulk Tape Eraser Message-ID: >yeah, they work great on floppies, even on some with soft errrors that >formatting doesn't remove. Just keep in mind you'll still have to >format the floppy after the degaussing. That's actually a good thing. If the disk is wiped to the point that it needs a format from the OS, then I can toss the disks in a general use box, and not worry about which OS they are used on (Mac or DOS/Windows). This way, they can be formatted fresh for the given platform they are needed on (yes yes, the mac can read PC disks just fine, but I prefer not to do that for Mac specific uses) >Wasn't suprised to see that it doesn't do VHS tapes very well. You need >quite a bit more gauss to do those, but a hand held will do floppies, >cassettes and 1/4" tape pretty well. Ok, I guess I have to black track the stack of VHS tapes I have then. No biggie, I was just hoping to avoid running them thru a VCR for 2 hours. >To use, squeeze the trigger switch while the demagger is away from the >media, and bring it up and slide it over and around in a random pattern >for several seconds, 10-30 seconds is usually adequate, then remove the >media while holding on to the switch. This eliminates a big glitch of >magnetism on the media. Ok, not exactly the way I had been using it. I was just putting it on top of the item, turning it on, rubbing it back and forth a bit, then turning it off and removing. I'll change my ways. >What ever you do, DO NOT USE a degausser on a hard drive. There is >embedded information on the tracks for tracking, and if removed, you >need a high cost formatter. Good to know as a "fact" although I had suspected something like this anyway, so I wouldn't have done it. I also wouldn't have tried it on Zip disks, or Syquest carts or other removable "non floppy" media for fear of the same problem. I suspect it might be ok on Zip disks, but I know those are treated more like a hard drive platter than a floppy disk, so I don't consider it worth the risk. > Bottom line . . . demag a HD and it becomes >a doorstop. I prefer to take them apart and make wind chimes from the platters. -chris From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jun 18 12:17:53 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: VS4000/60 and VRE01 problems In-Reply-To: <20020618161900.GG6613@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, Bill Bradford wrote: > On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 11:42:35AM -0400, Fred deBros wrote: > > I suspect the framebuffer is not compatible. > > I have an xf86config file that works graphics on the vre01 > > But on the 3100/76 and on the vt1200 the vre01 works in b/w and with > > the on-board framebuffer. Does the 4000/60 have similar output???? I > > should go ck myself as I have one of those... > > It does, but I gave my cable for that to Doc. 8-( > > Doc? Yup. I didn't send the email telling you you can have it back? Got ohmmeter in hand, will leave cable in mailbox this evening. If you'll be up & around 5:00ish, call my cell and I'll knock on the door.... I'd like to see it working. Doc From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Jun 18 12:38:11 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: Some Lisa Questions In-Reply-To: <1024355302.814.70.camel@netfinity> References: <1024355302.814.70.camel@netfinity> Message-ID: <32843.64.169.63.74.1024421891.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > 3) Mouse related: How is the mouse supposed to secure to the > connector on the motherboard? The mouse has the standard two > thumbscrews, but the motherboard is lacking the metal jacket that would > normally contain two nuts to recieve the connector screws - it's just > the black plastic DB-9 connector. Something seems missing in this > picture. Any clues? Does the black connector housing have ridges on the top and bottom that prevent a normal DE-9 from mating with it? Or signs that such ridges have been filed off? If so, you have an early backplane. I wouldn't expect to see that in a 2/10 or XL. The early Lisa mice used a strange DE-9 variant that I can't easily describe. In order to use the later mice on it, you had to either file off the ridges on the Lisa connector, or cut notches in the metal shell of the mouse connector, and either way you ended up with nothing to retain the connector. From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Jun 18 12:26:01 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: Computers in cars In-Reply-To: References: <200206181551.KAA14172@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020618122413.0252ee10@pc> When I think of computers in cars, I think of the little Zemco Compucruise that I put in my '69 Mustang back in 1980. Anyone else out there had one? It was nifty, calculating instantaneous MPG, ETA, cruise control (with a nifty feature to accelerate to a given speed), temperature monitoring, etc. Before the Mustang went off to a new owner, I removed all the parts and put them in a bag. Years later, I found a Usenet message from my old friend Dale Luck (of Amiga Corp.) looking for Compucruise parts. Off it went. - John From mranalog at attbi.com Tue Jun 18 12:56:18 2002 From: mranalog at attbi.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: VCF Gazette Volume 1 Issue 2 Message-ID: <3D0F7442.B5C72C31@attbi.com> You wrote: > See photos from VCF Europa 3.0 here: > http://www.vintage.org/gallery.php?title=VCF%20Europa%203.0&grouptag=VCFEUR30 > Gaby Chaudry, VCF Europa 3.0 Exhibitor and CP/M Archive maintainer, > has more pictures of VCF Europa 3.0 exhibits here: > http://www.gaby.de/vcfpics/vcf3gaby/index.htm Why is it that a PC-5000 is described as a "Sharp PC-5000", a Cyber 960 is described as a "Control Data Corporation Cyber 960", an CPC is described as a "Amstrad CPC", ..... a "IBM 3270", ..... an "Apollo Domain", ..... a "Sinclair QL", but the VCF Europa 3.0 1st place Best of Show is described as an "analog computer"? I want to thank Gaby Chaudry for at least displaying a picture this computer. --Doug The Analog Computer Museum has a new display of many fine Telefunken computers at: http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog/tele.htm ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog ========================================= From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Tue Jun 18 12:59:03 2002 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Leo Rachor Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: Computers in cars In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020618122413.0252ee10@pc> Message-ID: Still have one of those too... Removed it from my old Chevy Citation when I sold it and never re-installed it in anything.... George ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, John Foust wrote: > > When I think of computers in cars, I think of the little > Zemco Compucruise that I put in my '69 Mustang back in 1980. > Anyone else out there had one? It was nifty, calculating > instantaneous MPG, ETA, cruise control (with a nifty feature > to accelerate to a given speed), temperature monitoring, etc. > > Before the Mustang went off to a new owner, I removed all > the parts and put them in a bag. Years later, I found a > Usenet message from my old friend Dale Luck (of Amiga Corp.) > looking for Compucruise parts. Off it went. > > - John > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jun 18 13:05:48 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: Computers in cars In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020618122413.0252ee10@pc> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, John Foust wrote: > When I think of computers in cars, I think of the little > Zemco Compucruise that I put in my '69 Mustang back in 1980. > Anyone else out there had one? It was nifty, calculating > instantaneous MPG, ETA, cruise control (with a nifty feature > to accelerate to a given speed), temperature monitoring, etc. > > Before the Mustang went off to a new owner, I removed all > the parts and put them in a bag. Years later, I found a > Usenet message from my old friend Dale Luck (of Amiga Corp.) > looking for Compucruise parts. Off it went. IF I can ever find it again, d'ya want another (actually 2 or them, with some sensors missing from one) Both model 44. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Jun 18 13:15:21 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: Bulk Tape Eraser Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A2B@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Chris > > > Bottom line . . . demag a HD and it becomes > >a doorstop. > > I prefer to take them apart and make wind chimes from the platters. > > -chris > Or a drink coaster. The circuit boards is good as a backer for a notepad. And use the cases for banks, letter holder, pen holder, etc... Sorry. Brain wandering OT again. Hopefully you'll at least chuckle at me, if not with me. :) -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From mrbill at mrbill.net Tue Jun 18 13:39:45 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: VS4000/60 and VRE01 problems In-Reply-To: References: <20020618161900.GG6613@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20020618183945.GW6613@mrbill.net> On Tue, Jun 18, 2002 at 12:17:53PM -0500, Doc wrote: > Yup. I didn't send the email telling you you can have it back? Got > ohmmeter in hand, will leave cable in mailbox this evening. If you'll > be up & around 5:00ish, call my cell and I'll knock on the door.... I'd > like to see it working. I'll be home around 6, but $computer_room is in no shape for visitors (its a filthy mess right now). If I get it working, I'll take pictures and you can come over when I get the house cleaned. 8-) Thanks. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Tue Jun 18 13:37:33 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: OT: RE: Bulk Tape Eraser Message-ID: You can always try cleaning them ;) http://www.pcnineoneone.com/howto/cleandrive1.html http://www.datadocktorn.nu/us_frag1.php -----Original Message----- From: David Woyciesjes [mailto:DAW@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu] Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 1:15 PM To: 'cctalk@classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: Bulk Tape Eraser > From: Chris > > > Bottom line . . . demag a HD and it becomes > >a doorstop. > > I prefer to take them apart and make wind chimes from the platters. > > -chris > Or a drink coaster. The circuit boards is good as a backer for a notepad. And use the cases for banks, letter holder, pen holder, etc... Sorry. Brain wandering OT again. Hopefully you'll at least chuckle at me, if not with me. :) -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 18 13:56:37 2002 From: ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk (Greg Elkin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: DEC QBUS buffers/control chips In-Reply-To: <3D0EA140.6378.C275585@localhost> References: <3D0D56B7.5818F290@compsys.to> Message-ID: <3D0F9075.12502.FD9B00@localhost> > Does anyone know of a web resource describing the functionality of the > DEC QBUS interface chips, like the DC003(A), DC004, DC005, DC010, > DC021(C) and others? > eventually found a description of the DC003, 004, 005, 006 & 010 in "The Chipkit Users Guide" on the QBUS IDE project page at http://www.chd.dyndns.org/qbus_ide/ greg From halarewich at telus.net Tue Jun 18 14:05:06 2002 From: halarewich at telus.net (CHRIS HALAREWICH) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:26 2005 Subject: Timex Sinclair 1000 Update and Questions References: Message-ID: <3D0F8462.1774E1AA@telus.net> Hi guys try this new link for Zebra systems http://www.zebrasystems.com/zebrasystems/zx81/index.html CYA Chris H Gene Buckle wrote: > > >Glen, isn't there a company out there somewhere that is selling unbuilt > > >kits still? I seem to recall them going for $99. > > > > I believe Zebra was selling unbuilt ZX-81 kits, as well as > > various books and manuals and the Timex printer. > > > > Thanks Jeff. I did some digging and found it at > http://users.rcn.com/zebra.interport/ts2/products/index.html > > What's the difference between the TS-1000 and the ZX81? Just the name? > > g. From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Tue Jun 18 14:10:21 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: DEC QBUS buffers/control chips Message-ID: > > Does anyone know of a web resource describing the functionality of the > > DEC QBUS interface chips, like the DC003(A), DC004, DC005, DC010, > > DC021(C) and others? > > > eventually found a description of the DC003, 004, 005, 006 & 010 in "The > Chipkit Users Guide" on the QBUS IDE project page at > http://www.chd.dyndns.org/qbus_ide/ > > > greg > From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Tue Jun 18 14:15:48 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: DEC QBUS buffers/control chips Message-ID: >eventually found a description of the DC003, 004, 005, 006 & 010 in "The >Chipkit Users Guide" on the QBUS IDE project page at >http://www.chd.dyndns.org/qbus_ide/ Hit SEND a tad early on that other one! Various DEC manuals describe various DEC chips in their appendices. The DHV11 tech manual happens to cover all of the above except the DC006. One copy lives at http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/dec/qbus/ I have not read that chipkit manual, but the DHV11 manual includes a schematic so you get a free reference design. Antonio From ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 18 14:30:53 2002 From: ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk (Greg Elkin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: DEC QBUS buffers/control chips In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3D0F987D.7092.11CFA0B@localhost> Antonio Carlini wrote : > The DHV11 tech manual happens to cover all of the above except the > DC006. One copy lives at http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/dec/qbus/ > Intersting you mention the DHV11 as I've just been looking at the printset for the board as I have one here with the square component at the top between the two ribbon connectors broken off. looks like a 56uH choke or inductor or thingymabob. Something to do with the DC-DC convertor to generate -12V for the RS232 drviers I think. Wonder if I can repace it with a bit of wire :) I pulled the DHV11 Tech Manual from www.spies.com some time ago and forgot I'd got it. Reading it now and most enlightening it is to. Who runs the Spies.com site, are they here on cctalk perchance? Wish there was a worlwide central resource for getting manuals scanned, OCRd, PDFd and online. I must do the RSX11M+ v4.1 orange wall I have at some point... greg From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Jun 18 15:42:50 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: Sioux City hamfest In-Reply-To: <3D0BC945.4FC9F525@ccp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020618154250.10a74e50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:09 PM 6/15/02 -0500, you wrote: >Not much to report here, nice turnout, and a few odd items worth noting >. . . . . > >There was a Fluke something, that looked like some sort of terminal that >set up data acquisition on an IEE-488 buss. He had the complete unit >and software and docs. All I remember is that the CRT had a 2:1 aspect >ratio. I'm sure this will turn on some of you obscure stuff collectors. It sounds like a Fluke 1720 or 1722. They're HP-IB controllers and serve the same purpose as the HP-85, 9826, etc. The 1722 has a touch sensative screen and boots BASIC from disk. The keyboards and SW are very difficult to find. I have two 1722s. What kind of price was he asking for the stuff? Joe From celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk Tue Jun 18 14:55:37 2002 From: celigne at celigne.freeserve.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: DEC QBUS buffers/control chips References: <3D0F987D.7092.11CFA0B@localhost> Message-ID: <3D0F9039.1802AAED@celigne.freeserve.co.uk> Greg Elkin wrote: > > Who runs the Spies.com site, are they here on cctalk perchance? That's Al Kossow's part of spies.com. I can't remember whether he reads this list, but you'll certainly find him on alt.folklore.computers. > Wish there was a worlwide central resource for getting manuals > scanned, OCRd, PDFd and online. I must do the RSX11M+ v4.1 orange > wall I have at some point... What you need is copious amounts of free time. (Ooh, bit insensitive, must remember to not send this.) - Paul From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Tue Jun 18 15:07:23 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: DEC QBUS buffers/control chips Message-ID: >Intersting you mention the DHV11 as I've just been looking at the printset >for the board as I have one here with the square component at the top between >the two ribbon connectors broken off. looks like a 56uH choke or inductor or >thingymabob. Something to do with the DC-DC convertor to generate -12V for >the RS232 drviers I think. Wonder if I can repace it with a bit of wire :) I'll ask one of the designers when he gets back from his hols :-) Since I think it is a voltage regulator of some sort, I suspect the answer is no. The only dead board I ever knowingly found in the pile of cards that I inherited back in the lab at DEC was a DHV11 and it had had that very component knocked off. >Who runs the Spies.com site, are they here on cctalk perchance? Wish there That's Al Kossow and he's certainly here (and there and evrywhere ...) >was a worlwide central resource for getting manuals scanned, OCRd, PDFd and http://www.decdocs.org points to the main ones. There are a few more that come and go, plus a scattering of sites with just one or two manuals. I don't know of anyone trying any serious OCR - the technology has leaped forward in recent years, but not to the point that it "just works". Given that there are somewhere between 300 and 700 DEC manuals online (just an estimate) any OCR process has to be more or less one button push (i.e. as effortless as straight scanning can be). > online. I must do the RSX11M+ v4.1 orange wall I have at some point... If you can get Mentec to agree to having them made available (ask about bits of RSX and RT-11 V5 while you are at it ...) then let me know and I'll get the CDs online. I did ask but I've not heard anything back. Antonio From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Jun 18 15:40:39 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: One SCSI tape connected to 2 hosts? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020618133954.04222290@mail.zipcon.net> There are SCSI sharing devices out there that will allow one device to be hooked to 2 machines concurrently. From foo at siconic.com Tue Jun 18 15:47:39 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: Computers in cars In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020618122413.0252ee10@pc> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, John Foust wrote: > When I think of computers in cars, I think of the little > Zemco Compucruise that I put in my '69 Mustang back in 1980. > Anyone else out there had one? It was nifty, calculating > instantaneous MPG, ETA, cruise control (with a nifty feature > to accelerate to a given speed), temperature monitoring, etc. I have a car computer but not the one you speak of, though it's the same vintage. I can't recall the manufacturer. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Jun 18 15:49:55 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: VCF Gazette Volume 1 Issue 2 In-Reply-To: <3D0F7442.B5C72C31@attbi.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, Doug Coward wrote: > Why is it that a PC-5000 is described as a "Sharp PC-5000", > a Cyber 960 is described as a "Control Data Corporation Cyber 960", > an CPC is described as a "Amstrad CPC", > ..... a "IBM 3270", > ..... an "Apollo Domain", > ..... a "Sinclair QL", > but the VCF Europa 3.0 1st place Best of Show is described as an > "analog computer"? Because I totally forgot what it was called, and unfortunately did not get to spend as much time at that exhibit as I had wished and so really have no other details on it (well, other than that it is of East German origin). Sorry :( If you want, I can put you in touch with the two brothers that brought the exhibit and they can fill you in. They had a rather nice little collection that they brought from their technology museum in Leipzig. > I want to thank Gaby Chaudry for at least displaying a picture > this computer. I have one as well but didn't get around to posting it in the gallery. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Tue Jun 18 15:50:59 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: Timex Sinclair 1000 Update and Questions In-Reply-To: <3D0F8462.1774E1AA@telus.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, CHRIS HALAREWICH wrote: > Hi guys try this new link for Zebra systems > http://www.zebrasystems.com/zebrasystems/zx81/index.html I knew I should have bought one when they were selling them for $29.95 a few years back. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From allain at panix.com Tue Jun 18 16:01:13 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: Bulk Tape Eraser References: Message-ID: <00a501c2170b$486edf60$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > You can always try cleaning them ;) >http://www.pcnineoneone.com/howto/cleandrive1.html >http://www.datadocktorn.nu/us_frag1.php Where I used to work someone took one end of a FDDI connect cable (HD68 or so) with it's fine pitch pins and attached a 12V 100A connector to the other end of the cable and labelled the assembly a "RAID Initializer" John A. From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Jun 18 16:47:58 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: Small LED displays... In-Reply-To: <00a501c2170b$486edf60$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020618174432.00add028@mail.30below.com> Sorry for the lack of information (I didn't pay that much information to the thread as it didn't affect me) but someone here on the list was looking for very small LED displays for something... At http://www.unicornelectronics.com/fnd503.html there's a TSM2416 that's 4 digit, 17 segment LED displays with a character height of .16 inch, $14.99 each. It lists a socket specification as an "SO24." Dunno if it's the right size, price, or anything, but just thought I'd mention it here in case it's useful for the original postor. Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From jingber at ix.netcom.com Tue Jun 18 16:43:38 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: Some Lisa Questions In-Reply-To: <32843.64.169.63.74.1024421891.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <1024355302.814.70.camel@netfinity> <32843.64.169.63.74.1024421891.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <1024436622.1254.77.camel@netfinity> On Tue, 2002-06-18 at 13:38, Eric Smith wrote: > Does the black connector housing have ridges on the top and bottom that > prevent a normal DE-9 from mating with it? Or signs that such ridges have > been filed off? If so, you have an early backplane. I wouldn't expect to > see that in a 2/10 or XL. Not that I'm aware of, but I'll take a closer look. This is definitely a later backplane as it lacks an external parallel port. I'm familar only from memory of the earlier mice having some sort of 'clip' that held the mouse in place. FYI - I have a M0100 mouse which I understand isn't the 'proper' mouse. To better visualize the mechanics of this, imagine a VGA connector (on the card side) whithout the metal sheath, just the bare plastic - that's what I have on the motherboard. The mouse doesn't appear to have been modified - it has what would appear to be (physically) identical to a DB-9 serial port (female). So, it appears that something was modified on the motherboard connector, but without some reference I don't know what's missing. The early Lisa mice used a strange DE-9 variant > that I can't easily describe. In order to use the later mice on it, you > had to either file off the ridges on the Lisa connector, or cut notches > in the metal shell of the mouse connector, and either way you ended up > with nothing to retain the connector. > > > Jeffrey H. Ingber (jingber _at_ ix.netcom.com) From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jun 18 17:15:29 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: Indigo2 and Exabyte 8200 In-Reply-To: Jeff Hellige "Indigo2 and Exabyte 8200" (Jun 18, 10:14) References: <003e01c216cd$3c7061e0$023ca8c0@blafleur> <02Jun18.101631edt.119046@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <10206182315.ZM19559@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 18, 10:14, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Well I finally found a system that still likes my Exabyte > 8200. My Mac's have never liked it and my Amiga's were tempermental > with it, not always working. My SGI Indigo2 appears to happily deal > with it though, even if it is quite slow. Is there a way of making a > backup done to it bootable? I don't know for sure that it works with an Exabyte 8200, but look for an executable file called mkboottape (and then "man mkboottape" and distcp -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jun 18 17:02:08 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! In-Reply-To: Andreas Freiherr "Re: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!!" (Jun 18, 13:30) References: <3D0F19DD.3F06FE6F@Vishay.com> Message-ID: <10206182302.ZM19503@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 18, 13:30, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > Is the "Belling Lee Coaxial Plug" what I know as an IEC-type 75 Ohm > connector? - It has a larger diameter than F connectors, and is neither > threaded nor otherwise locked (not like BNC, for instance). Probably. I've certainly seen the plugs we use, in Germany (or at least, in Austria). Have a look at http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/21296.pdf and see if the picture matches. Or look up DIN45325/IEC169-2 > Balanced (unshielded) cable for TV antennas had been in use in Germany, > too, but it had 240 Ohms impedance, and it was replaced by 75 Ohm Coax > about at the time when valves were replaced by transistors. We used to have 300-ohm twin feeder for VHF (about 86-106MHz) FM radio antennae, but it's rare now. Mostly 75-ohm coax. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jingber at ix.netcom.com Tue Jun 18 17:02:07 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: Lisa software archives In-Reply-To: <000901c216c4$afdd1d20$177ba8c0@ne.client2.attbi.com> References: <000901c216c4$afdd1d20$177ba8c0@ne.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <1024437730.814.79.camel@netfinity> FYI, theres another Lisa archive that may be worthwhile here: http://archaic-apples.shauny.de/files/lisa/ Jeffrey H. Ingber (jingber _at_ ix.netcom.com) On Tue, 2002-06-18 at 08:35, Chandra Bajpai wrote: > Do any of you folks know where to disk find images of Lisa > Pascal/Development kit? > > Also...How are the steps required to move them once they are downloaded > (to a PC) and finally get them onto a Lisa? > > Thanks, > Chandra > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Marion Bates > Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 6:07 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Lisa software archives > > Hi folks, > > A few years ago, I posted a webpage about Lisa/MacXL technical info: > . I intend to add more stuff to > it...someday. It's still up, but I noticed the other day that the Lisa > software archive, hosted on a separate ftp server, was unreachable. I > guess the sysadmin closed it down. However I snagged the files from a > backup and moved them, temporarily, to my own machine (which has a > semi-static IP, broadband). So, if anyone needs a copy of > (de-serialized) Lisa Office System, LisaTest, MacWorks, etc. the disk > images are now here: > > The link on the website has been updated as well. > > If any of you (Sellam?) had listed the ftp link separately, please > update. I'll send another note when I have the new, permanent home for > these files. > > Thanks, > > -- MB > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 18 13:32:49 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: from "Antonio Carlini" at Jun 18, 2 00:02:20 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 345 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020618/6cd0de31/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 18 13:38:18 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: Timex Sinclair 1000 Update and Questions In-Reply-To: from "Doc" at Jun 17, 2 06:10:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1606 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020618/6063d135/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 18 17:26:45 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: Bulk Tape Eraser In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020618091150.01a7ce74@pop1.epm.net.co> from "Carlos Murillo" at Jun 18, 2 09:11:50 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 168 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020618/44fbfda0/attachment.ksh From curt at atari-history.com Tue Jun 18 17:50:07 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: Indigo2 and Exabyte 8200 References: <003e01c216cd$3c7061e0$023ca8c0@blafleur> <02Jun18.101631edt.119046@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> <10206182315.ZM19559@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <000d01c2171a$7e957db0$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Also look for different versions of the onboard firmware. Exabytes are quite picky and tempermental when they are hooked up to various host controllers and their firmware is not the right rev. I used to run into this a lot with these drives and the 8500 jukeboxes when it came to Legato backup software on Netware and Solaris servers. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Turnbull" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 6:15 PM Subject: Re: Indigo2 and Exabyte 8200 > On Jun 18, 10:14, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > Well I finally found a system that still likes my Exabyte > > 8200. My Mac's have never liked it and my Amiga's were tempermental > > with it, not always working. My SGI Indigo2 appears to happily deal > > with it though, even if it is quite slow. Is there a way of making a > > backup done to it bootable? > > I don't know for sure that it works with an Exabyte 8200, but look for an > executable file called mkboottape (and then "man mkboottape" and distcp > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York From coredump at gifford.co.uk Tue Jun 18 17:33:04 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: Computers in cars (was: I hate Radio Shack References: Message-ID: <3D0FB520.CA1B7BF5@gifford.co.uk> "Merle K. Peirce" wrote: > I have this bizarre image of Tony and friends rolling six full sized > racks into a Bulleid Waterloo and City car. And that's reminded me of the PDP-11/34 rescue across London in a Mini. RL-01s, packs, PDP and rescue crew got stuck in a lift (elevator) until quite late at night. The tube (subway) had stopped runnng for the night, so everything and everybody had to go by car. Rather a small car. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 18 16:41:26 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: Computers in cars (was: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <3D0EB556.7020106@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Jun 18, 2 00:21:42 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 891 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020618/8ae8b63e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 18 16:15:40 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!! In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jun 17, 2 06:22:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 859 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020618/d1a6e72d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 18 16:19:42 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: DEC QBUS buffers/control chips In-Reply-To: <3D0EA140.6378.C275585@localhost> from "Greg Elkin" at Jun 18, 2 02:56:00 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 641 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020618/389e23fb/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 18 16:22:06 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: Philips and auction finds (was: Re: I hate Radio Shack) In-Reply-To: <20020618022832.38650.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> from "Loboyko Steve" at Jun 17, 2 07:28:32 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 457 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020618/53838e47/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 18 17:25:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! In-Reply-To: <3D0F19DD.3F06FE6F@Vishay.com> from "Andreas Freiherr" at Jun 18, 2 01:30:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3271 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020618/bd0633e8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 18 17:30:43 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: HP 9825B In-Reply-To: <686A090EA54ED311AD1A0008C79A7048027121F9@EAMBGNT700> from "Dario Rodriguez" at Jun 18, 2 08:45:12 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1211 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020618/c8039cf1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 18 17:34:53 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: Philips and auction finds (was: I hate Radio Shack) In-Reply-To: <02Jun18.100141edt.119046@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> from "Jeff Hellige" at Jun 18, 2 09:59:27 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 607 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020618/4556d9a1/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jun 18 17:57:14 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: One SCSI tape connected to 2 hosts? In-Reply-To: Geoff Reed "RE: One SCSI tape connected to 2 hosts?" (Jun 18, 13:40) References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020618133954.04222290@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <10206182357.ZM19713@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 18, 13:40, Geoff Reed wrote: > There are SCSI sharing devices out there that will allow one device to be > hooked to 2 machines concurrently. You can do it directly providing the controllers (and their hosts) are well-behaved (which lets Windows off the hook). Back in the days when a SCSI disk of any size cost nearly as much as the computer you might want to attach it to, one enterprising company produced a system for the Acorn Archimedes which allowed six Archimedes computers to share one SCSI disk (and, I think, to "talk" to each other). I saw it working at an exhibition, and I think it was made by Lingenuity. You might be able to get more information from their sister comapany, Lindis: http://www.lindis.co.uk, or from Jack Lillingston at Castle Technology: http://www.castle.uk.co/ (no that's not a typo, it is uk.co not co.uk) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From mythtech at mac.com Tue Jun 18 18:19:58 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: Bulk Tape Eraser Message-ID: > Or a drink coaster. The circuit boards is good as a backer for a >notepad. And use the cases for banks, letter holder, pen holder, etc... Humm... I have a few dead drives here... maybe I'll yank the boards, use some small hinges, and make myself a note pad case (I've seen them for sale before, but never with components on them) But I think if I start making all my office desk items from used computer parts, then the staff here will REALLY think I have gone insane... then again, maybe that will be a good thing, they'll stay out of my office (barricading the door and covering the floor with electronic junk hasn't stopped them... it just makes them trip when trying to come near my desk) -chris From vaxman at earthlink.net Tue Jun 18 18:42:41 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: Source for components on Internet? In-Reply-To: <3D0E63D8.869553A8@ccp.com> Message-ID: I've had bad luck with mouser... I called and ordered a DC-DC converter in an 8 pin DIP, next day delivery, and received 7805's instead (plus the rest of my order). I called and was told the replacements would "be shipped out today". I called the two days later and was told the same thing, the third time I called I was told they had already shipped out. They arrived, UPS ground, free of charge, but they were STILL 7805's.... I called and bitched again until I got someone who understood the difference between a 3 pin TO3 and an 8 pin DIP, (are you SURE it isn't a compatible part?), got her to right down an alternate part number (the 'A' version versus the 'B' version, tighter specs), and what was NOT an acceptable alternative... The 'A' version arrived about a week later, again shipped UPS ground, no refund on the next day shipping. YMMV, Clint On Mon, 17 Jun 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > > > Does anyone have a recommended place to order stuff such as Resistors and > > TTL from on the net? I was at the local large seller of such stuff on > > Saturday and half the stuff I wanted they were out of. > > > > Zane > > > The best are: > > Mouser Electronics > > Jameco Dlectronics > > Digi-Key > > Hmmm you must have been at the Rat Shack in St. Joseph, aka the 'out' > house. > > Gary Hildebrand > St. Joseph, MO > From foo at siconic.com Tue Jun 18 18:41:05 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: Computers in cars (was: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > A mad friend of mine once moved an 11/44 system (in a pair of half-height > racks) on the London Underground. He made several journeys -- bags of > boards and the mounting box, then the drives, then the rack side panels, > etc, and finally the empty frames. Got the whole thing home in one day > (which meant he only had to buy one Travelcard costing about \pounds > 5.00). Not too expensive to move a complete machine in a way that ensures > it won't get mangled... This is the coolest thing I have heard so far this week :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jplist at globe.net.nz Tue Jun 18 19:06:20 2002 From: jplist at globe.net.nz (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: Source for components on Internet? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > I called and ordered a DC-DC converter in an 8 pin DIP, next day > delivery, and received 7805's instead (plus the rest of my order). > time I called I was told they had already shipped out. They arrived, > UPS ground, free of charge, but they were STILL 7805's.... I had a similar problem with Coast2Coast Memory (18004memory.com). I needed four single-sided 16MB true parity 72p SIMMs. The SBCs I had (from a Cubix) have memory slots that are at a 45 degree angle, meaning that you can't stack in double-sided SIMMS. Clear, right? I rang C2C and explained what I needed, and the dude there said 'Oh, you can't get double-sided 16MB SIMMs'. I explained you certainly could, as I had a pair. He told me I was mistaken. This ensued for a while until I decided it wasn't worth arguing with this twit over it. A week later guess what arrives? Four double-sided 16MB SIMMs that, apparently, don't exist. I called back and complained, they made me send the SIMMs back while I waited for the correct single-sided SIMMs. They sent me two single-sided SIMMs, and two double-sided SIMMs. A third round of calls explaining very clearly precisely what I wanted, and that I most certainly would not be paying for shipping their second screw up back to them, I finally received another pair of single-sided 16MB SIMMs. At least I got a useable pair of SIMMs out of it, I guess. JP From at258 at osfn.org Tue Jun 18 19:24:40 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: Computers in cars (was: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <3D0FB520.CA1B7BF5@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: I hope it had a sunroof. On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, John Honniball wrote: > > "Merle K. Peirce" wrote: > > I have this bizarre image of Tony and friends rolling six full sized > > racks into a Bulleid Waterloo and City car. > > And that's reminded me of the PDP-11/34 rescue across London > in a Mini. RL-01s, packs, PDP and rescue crew got stuck in > a lift (elevator) until quite late at night. The tube (subway) > had stopped runnng for the night, so everything and everybody > had to go by car. Rather a small car. > > -- > John Honniball > coredump@gifford.co.uk > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 18 18:47:26 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: Computers in cars (was: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <3D0FB520.CA1B7BF5@gifford.co.uk> from "John Honniball" at Jun 18, 2 11:33:04 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1016 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020619/4fe4c33f/attachment.ksh From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Jun 18 20:23:25 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: One SCSI tape connected to 2 hosts? In-Reply-To: <10206182357.ZM19713@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020618133954.04222290@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020618202215.0345fc70@pc> In the Amiga market, I believe C Ltd. once offered such a SCSI disk sharing arrangement with their specific SCSI adapters and software. I never quite believed that it worked, but maybe it did. - John From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jun 18 20:47:21 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: Computers in cars (was: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <3D0FB520.CA1B7BF5@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, John Honniball wrote: > And that's reminded me of the PDP-11/34 rescue across London > in a Mini. RL-01s, packs, PDP and rescue crew got stuck in > a lift (elevator) until quite late at night. The tube (subway) > had stopped runnng for the night, so everything and everybody > had to go by car. Rather a small car. I want JPGs of a mini in a Mini! From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Tue Jun 18 22:23:10 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: Bulk Tape Eraser In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.2.32.20020618091150.01a7ce74@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020618232310.01aed2e8@pop1.epm.net.co> At 11:26 PM 6/18/02 +0100, you wrote: >> Wouldn't switching it on and off be many times more >> efficient at producing a time-varying field? :-) . > >Isn't that one reason that those erasers run on AC? > >-tony It shows that I haven't been near one of them. But I did repair the "eraser" for magnetic strips embedded in the spine of all books at one of the Cornell University libraries, where I worked for a while. Method: charge a few big caps to about 340V, then discharge suddenly through a big coil. Dangerous. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Tue Jun 18 23:27:32 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: Zebra Systems (was Re: Timex Sinclair 1000 Update and Questions) Message-ID: <20020619042916.UZJX5702.imf01bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Gene Buckle > Glen, isn't there a company out there somewhere that is selling unbuilt > kits still? I seem to recall them going for $99. Yes: Zebra Systems in NYC. BUT I suggest you exercise caution when dealing with this firm, i.e., only pay them with a charge card in case they "lose" your order or find they can't provide the products as advertised. I've had a couple of unsatisfactory dealings with them. Another gripe of mine is that in the last three years or so they've bumped the price from $29.95 to $99.95. If you do a search on eBay for "timex,sinclair" you'll often find Zebra selling kits there, usually with a starting bid of $49, so you can save a lot by going that route. The kits themselves (I've built at least two or three) are great. They're not exactly identical to the original retail versions (no original Sinclair BASIC manual, Zebrafied assembly instructions instead of original) but they work, and one advantage is that the RF modulator (if you care to use it -- I don't) is UHF instead of VHF and provides a much cleaner signal. Later -- Glen 0/0 From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jun 18 23:41:19 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: Philips and auction finds (was: Re: I hate Radio Shack) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > And _any_ form of metal .vs. plastic. Many things that were metal > castings perhaps 10 years ago are now plastic. > > Of course there are many types of plastic, and some of them are fine > for such applications. But you can bet those are _not_ the ones that > are used in cheap VCRs... Thats the problem with the VCR I needed the service manual for...worn down *plastic* lever/clutch. The plastic is literally worn away where it sits against a pulley. Without a service manual, I don't even know what the part number for the thing is. I did manage to make it work again by smoothing the edge some, but it still makes an awful grinding noise (due to the pulley shifting a little) when using the FF or REW modes ;P -Toth From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Tue Jun 18 23:34:25 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: Timex Sinclair 1000 Update and Questions Message-ID: <20020619044831.ZACO867.imf11bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Doc > Headphone socket to "Ear" on the TS-1000. I didn't hook up the > Mic-mic line. Glad you mentioned that -- don't hook up both cables at the same time or strange things may happen. Also, what tapes do you have? I'm working on completing the entire set as produced by Timex Computer Corp. and might be interested. Later -- Glen 0/0 From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Tue Jun 18 23:46:40 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: Source for components on Internet? Message-ID: <20020619044851.ZAJC867.imf11bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Louis Schulman > There is a good store in > Orlando, but that is a long drive and they are much more expensive than > the mail order places. Hey Louis, which place here are you referring to? Glen 0/0 If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if not now, when? -- Pirkei Avot From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Jun 18 23:55:03 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: Philips and auction finds (was: Re: I hate Radio Shack) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Jun 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Which model is it? I think the CDD2000 was one of thier first CD-R > drives. It's a standard HH SCSI drive, unlike older Sony drives that > were rather large proprietary units. My guess is that they weren't > quite as fast to release a CD-R to market as they were with CD-ROMs? > Weren't they one of the original developers of the CD-ROM? I still > have a CDD2000 as well as continue to use one of their Omniwriter's. The model printed on the front of the unit is CDD 521, and has a sticker on the cd tray with the printing 'CDD521 upgraded'. It is an external drive, and looks very much like a component-style cd player. A sticker on the rear of the unit states 'Type: CDD521/10', and shows it was made in Aug 1993. Philips was indeed the original developer of the compact disc. Going OT a little again, that is one of the reasons they are currently quite unhappy with the "copy protected" (defective) cds various record companies are marketing to unsuspecting consumers. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Jun 19 00:00:18 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:27 2005 Subject: Philips and auction finds (was: Re: I hate Radio Shack) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > And I assume you can't find an easily-bribed person at an official > service centre who will print out the information you need.... I actually tried that with one local shop, and they flat out said no. Its quite possible that the Philips/Magnavox service docs can't be printed (via normal means, anyway), but only viewed from those cdroms. If they can be printed, its possible that the service shop has a limit as to how many pages they can print (or even view) from those discs. -Toth From fernande at internet1.net Wed Jun 19 00:15:30 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:28 2005 Subject: vax 4000 108 on ebay Message-ID: <3D101372.8010408@internet1.net> Priced a little high :-) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2033046044 Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Wed Jun 19 00:23:03 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:28 2005 Subject: vax 4000 108 on ebay In-Reply-To: <3D101372.8010408@internet1.net> Message-ID: <007b01c21751$63072e40$023ca8c0@blafleur> Hmmm... No picture. It says keyboard and VT monitor for additional cost - for that price, it should include them and free shipping. Heck, free personalized delivery! -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chad Fernandez Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 1:16 AM To: Classic Computers Subject: vax 4000 108 on ebay Priced a little high :-) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2033046044 Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jun 19 00:28:23 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:28 2005 Subject: Up For Trade; Was Re: Timex Sinclair 1000.... In-Reply-To: <20020619044831.ZACO867.imf11bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Jun 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > Also, what tapes do you have? I'm working on completing the entire set as > produced by Timex Computer Corp. and might be interested. Ah, relief. I've been writing batch files for MS-DOS-sessions-under- Windows-so-the-luser-can-just-click-an-icon. Bah. Let's see.... * - Cassette, jewel box, black&red insert, instruction insert + - cassette, jewel box, instruction insert - - cassette, instruction insert only *Pinball *The List Manager +SuperMath *The Check Book Manager -The Mixed Game Bag I # has black&red insert, just no jewel box +Mixed Game Bag II *Mixed Game Bag III +The Organizer *The Coupon Manager +The Gambler +Vu-Calc +The Budgeter Also came with User Manual, Service Contract, 16k RAM pack instructions, 90-day Limited Warranty statement, self-addressed envelope: Timex Product Service Center P.O. Box2740 7000 Murray Street Little Rock, Arkansas 72203 and the Timex Sinclair Software Catalog, Fall Issue. Which has a register tape stapled in for what looks like 6 s/w titles @ $10-$17, and a $49.95 item I'll guess was the RAM pack. I'm open to trades for the whole shebang. The large strap on the back of the PCB was broken loose at the solder joint (near the voltage regulator.) I did a nice neat job of repairing it - they left more than plenty of solder to do it. Other than that, it looks and works just fine. The keyboard is pretty impressive, response versus appearance. It looks cheesy as heck.... No worn pads/labels, and I haven't discovered any dead keys yet. If untested tapes are a showstopper, I bet I can round up a mono player to test them. I really don't want to part it out. I also don't expect to get a whole lot for it. Doc From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Wed Jun 19 00:32:02 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:28 2005 Subject: vax 4000 108 on ebay In-Reply-To: <3D101372.8010408@internet1.net> Message-ID: <007c01c21752$a473ba00$023ca8c0@blafleur> It also says 256K, not MB of RAM. For the asking price, the seller should at leasr get the specs right. And no disk size listed. Some sucker will probably buy it though... -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chad Fernandez Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 1:16 AM To: Classic Computers Subject: vax 4000 108 on ebay Priced a little high :-) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2033046044 Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From sloboyko at yahoo.com Wed Jun 19 00:33:35 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:28 2005 Subject: Wirth's first DEC Pascal Compiler In-Reply-To: <000001c21652$1bec5e40$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Message-ID: <20020619053335.7870.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com> I have a PASCAL-S for the PDP-8, which, incredibly, given my limited knowledge, I managed to compile and use to compile and run a few trivial PASCAL programs. The error messages are in German. It is written in PAL8 assembler. --- Heinz Wolter wrote: > Anyone have a copy of this DECtape ? > It's pictured here at the UVA computer museum > http://www.cs.virginia.edu/brochure/museum.html > > More likely it was a compiler/pcode interpreter > for a PDP10or 11, but I could be wrong. Year: > 1969-70 > > http://www.threedee.com/jcm/psystem/ > The ucsd p-system museum has a DCD6400 tape they > can read with the source to a ver early Pascal > system. > Since Pascal was first written for the CDC 6600, the > > DECtape mentioned above was likely an early port. > > They give this link to a Jensen Wirth interpreter- > but it's dead > ftp://ftp.threedee.com/usr/syndesis/p2.zip > Finding the files pasint.pas and pascom.pas on a > PDP10 tape > from ETH Zurich would be starting point. > > I was able to find source for a pascal -s compiler > http://hjem.get2net.dk/bnielsen/pascals1.html > > regards > h > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From paulrsm at buckeye-express.com Wed Jun 19 00:39:56 2002 From: paulrsm at buckeye-express.com (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:28 2005 Subject: Wirth's first DEC Pascal Compiler References: <20020618091812.3209.8459.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3D10192C.ECD106F0@buckeye-express.com> > Anyone have a copy of this DECtape ? > More likely it was a compiler/pcode interpreter > for a PDP10or 11, but I could be wrong. Year: 1969-70 I have the NBS (National Bureau of Standards) Pascal compiler for the PDP-11 if you want it. It is written in Pascal except for the run-time library. It appears to be part of a DECUS tape dated Fall 1980. > I was able to find source for a pascal -s compiler > http://hjem.get2net.dk/bnielsen/pascals1.html A lot of links to Pascal-S are close by: http://hjem.get2net.dk/bnielsen/pascals.html Paul R. Santa-Maria Monroe, Michigan USA From paulrsm at buckeye-express.com Wed Jun 19 00:49:43 2002 From: paulrsm at buckeye-express.com (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:28 2005 Subject: Lisa Pascal References: <20020618170001.8243.8349.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3D101B77.F8C5CA0@buckeye-express.com> > Do any of you folks know where to disk find images of Lisa > Pascal/Development kit? Check out the following two eBay auctions: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2032923599 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2032088987 I purchased a copy of the second one for the Apple II software. You will need an old Macintosh to create the images. Paul R. Santa-Maria Monroe, Michigan USA From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Jun 18 14:28:15 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:28 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] FW: AVAILABLE-- PDP, DEC parts Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A2D@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> This list is from Jon Ikoniak (ikoniak@snowhite.cis.temple.edu). Please contact him with any offers and/or questions. It sounds like some of the bigger stuff needs to move ASAP... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash > > From: Jon Ikoniak (ikoniak@snowhite.cis.temple.edu) > > > > Here is my third list of DEC stuff. > > > > Jon > > > > It is a first come and take to a good home deal. We would rather > see these things go to good homes. We are in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. > We do pack and ship some items, it depends. Most of is 'come & get it'. > > Below is another list of items that we have had and now > we have put into a new list. This list is different from the > other two previous lists that were sent out. In addition we > have lost the area where we have been keeping the bigger items. > So things like the PDP racks and VAX racks have to be moved > out SOON. We would like to get homes for these big items since > I know that they are becoming harder to come by. So if you are > interested or know anyone who maybe in these items please let > me know. We are still working on a list of manuals, schematics > and other types of documents, which we hope to be ready soon. > > 1 VAX era 3 FT. short rack with RA81 Disk Drive > 1 VAX era 3 FT. short rack with RX02 8" floppy drive > 1 VAX era 3 FT. short rack with MICRO VAX casing > 1 VAX era 3 FT. short rack empty > 1 VAX era 5 FT. tall rack with two BA11 expansion boxes. > 1 VAX era 5 FT. tall rack with RL02 & RL01 removaable disk packs > 1 VAX era 5 FT. tall rack with RX02 8" floppy drive > 1 VAX era 5 FT. tall rack empty > 10 DEC RX01 and RX02 8" floppy disk drive units > 20 LA100 DEC printers/terminals > 6 LA34 DEC printers > 5 Printronix printers > 4 LA120 DEC Printers/Terminals > 1 LA36 DEC Printer > > 1 DEC PDP 11 4 FT. rack with RK05 removeable disk pack unit > 1 DEC PDP 11 4 FT. rack empty > 1 DEC PDP 11 6 FT. rack empty > 1 DEC PDP 11 4 FT. rack empty > 1 DEC PDP 11 4 FT. rack empty > 1 Short 3 FT. rack with RK05 removable disk pack unit > 3 DEC PDP 8/12 6 FT. Racks empty. > > > 2 DEC TU10 10" magnectic reel tape unit driver motors > 1 DEC MICRO 11 backplane part no. M-9278-A > 1 VERSATEC in jet printer unit > Large number of various RK05 disk packs > Large number of RL01 & RL02 disk packs > A number of MASS bus cable pieces and terminators > Various lengths of MASS bus cables for RPxx series > 1 DEC PDP 11 DH11-AE backplane interface with various boards > M5906 M7821 (2), M796 M7280 (2), M7279 M4540 M7288 M7289 > M7277 M7278 > 1 KW12 Clock Control panel with cabling > 1 PDP12 Series panel (Analog Channels 10-17) (Relay Register) > 1 TEKTRONIX Type 601 Storage Display Unit > Numerous 16 Port Multiplexors for PDP 11 configurations > Several BA11 Expansion Boxes Deep > Numerous VT220 & VT240 Terminals > Numerous and various lengths of AUI Network Calbles > Numerous H4000 Tansceivers > > _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Jun 18 14:43:46 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:28 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] RE: FW: AVAILABLE-- PDP, DEC (list 2) Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A2F@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Here's list number 2... -- --- David A Woyciesjes > ---------- > > This list is from Jon Ikoniak (ikoniak@snowhite.cis.temple.edu). > Please contact him with any offers and/or questions. It sounds like some > of > the bigger stuff needs to move ASAP... > > -- > > > > From: Jon Ikoniak (ikoniak@snowhite.cis.temple.edu) > > > > > NOTE: The following list was put together by an assitant who was > not very familiar with this type of technology. This is a > list of most of the small parts we still have in cabinets. > This list should be used as a reference. We still have a > number of schematics, user manuals, and other assorted > documentation that we need to make a list up to send out. > We also have a number of assorted electronic items we need > to make a list up. Also there are still some larger items > such as racks, processors, disks, etc, that need to be put > into a list and sent out. We will do so as soon as we can. > > RK DISKS (These are rk05 disk platters from old PDP's) > > 2315-12 HD RT-11 Version 5.3 RK 40 (32 backup/storage bitmap/File > I/O error) > 220 00 BPI-12 RT 11 XM with DP Support RK 063 (4.3 Development/ > Animal weiging) rsx-11m V3.2 > V4c SRC-Backup-RT11 (master is RK037) RK 057 > 53024 HD12 KAPPS > Lafollet programs > 53025 HD 12 RSx Libdisk system Aug83 RK 061 > KAPPS > Mark III 2F-12 SDB-SOURCE-II RK058 > RT-11 system for VT-103 backup RK075 > 2200 BPI- 12 > 846-2-16 > 53024 HD 12 RIX PIX 2 > SYS IMAG > 2315-12 HD BAD BLOCK > Lafollette > Bill Wirth's RK 11 > Serial # 072281-34 Transformation medium btw unix G and D > 2200-BPI-12 Merck 4.3 Disk 02/ RSX-11m V3.2 > 53024 HD 12 Backup for usre files on System F DK 2 RK 045 > 2200 BPI-12 GERMANO MUMPS > L. Remy old Rt-V3 RK 18 > 2200 BPI-12 Backup RK6, SYSTEM F Rk 055 > RSX Limsy H 83b Backup RSX SYS RK 69 > disk for system H fall 83 > 2200 BPI-12 Copy of RT11 Disk Used on B + C - fall83 RK062 > Serial # C73580 Mini computer Accessories > 2200 BPI-12 RSX-11M/AP-D050EBC/RSX M32 No drver 81 > 53024 HD 12 RSX-11M V 4.0/ System backup RK 52 > 2200 BPI-12 AN-M356A-BC/RSX 11M V4.0 ATPCH RK 5 > 2200 BPI-12 TEMPLE Physics /K.McFARALANE/RSXH-M > DK0 BACKUP RT-11 CER2B-05 > 2200 BPT-12 RSX LIB SYH 83B/BACKUP FOR RSXLIB FALL83 RK 070 > 2315-12 HD RSX-11M V3.2/DK1 > DEC FORTRAN -IV V2.5 RK 050 > 2315-BPT-12 RSX-11M V4.0 ID:R5XM32 RK 5 > SERIAL# C73005 MINICOMPUTER ASSOCIATION > 2200 BPI-12 RT11 SYS 82 B GT SUPPORT NO MT RK067 > SERIAL# C72974 MINICOMPUTER ASS. > DD15-24 COPY DO 1 BLANK RK 057 > DD15-12 LAFOLLETTE D-SOURCES > KBS IRP RK 56 > F4 AND F4P FORTRAN IV FOR RSX RK 71 > 2315-12 HD RT-11 VER 5.3/DISK 2 OF 3 > 53025 HD 12 RSX SYS DISK RK 060 > > ERROR CORRECTION LOGIC CHIP (FLIP CHIP) > M7234(2), M7232(2),M7231, M7233, M7235 > FLOPPY DISK CONTROLLER M7725, M7726(3) > READ/WRITE CONTROLLER M7727(4) > STACK REGISTER ( FLIP CHIP M7237) > ERROR CORRECTION LOGIC CHIP(FLIP CHIP) > M7273, M8120, M7260, M8265, M7263(2), M7258, M8266(2), G110, M7272, > M8121 > MASBUS PADDLE CARD 013A > STD CONNECTION CARD(2) 9107747-02 121A > 600 SERIES LOGIC BD, LS12 LOGIG BOARD, MOTHER BOARD JLP008517 > ERROR CORRECCTION LOGIC CHIP P/N SPE-156(2) > FLIP CHIP: M7236, M7231, M7235 (2), M7233, M7260, 7261, M7263,M8127 > (2). > M8126920, M8128 (2), M8106, M8129(2),M8103 > 1 TERMINATOR > 3 MODEL 125XR FANS > GRUOND CABLES RED (5), BLAC (9), VARIOUS SIZES > MONITOR CABLE > 50 OHM OR BUS DRIVER B683 > MOTIONAND SELECTION CIRCUIT: G85A, G221(12), G821(2), G916(2), G820(3) > > PULSE AMPLIFER: S603(4), S151(2), S123(8), S205(11),S123(10), S111(13), > S202(6), S206(2) > ANALOG PRE AMP : A214(3) > SOLENOID DRIVER: W040930, W7040(7), W107(12),W520(2),W990(6), W104(2), > W103, W640, W726, R303(5), R113, R302(2), R002 > DIODE INVENTER: B165(4), B301, B611(2), B134, B152(6), B135(2), > B212(4), > B312(2),B133(4), B172, B301(4), B137, B683 > 6 TRACK DIODE MATIX(41) > SAMPLE AND HOLE A404, 10BIT AD CONV. A801 G093(2) > G085(8),G062(2), G064(2),G060(4),G350(5), G094(2), G050(4),G932(4), > G933(8), G9341(3), G882(9), G736(2), G717, > G741(5),G820(3),G9340(3),G718, > G624(3), G286(6), G285(60, G228(5), A131, W512 > > PDP I UNIBUS TERMINATOR/BOOTSTRAP > M9301SW,M9301 YA > BACKPLANE ASSY 5412233(3) > BACKPLANE WITH CHIPS RK11-1 > M7257,M7256,M7255,M7254, > ONE DEC UNIBUS M920,M981. > FLIP CHIP; M7822(20, M77701,M9047,M7702,M7258,M8904,M7255,7016,M787 > BACKPLANE DD11-P (5) > FLIP CHIP: M873YB,M792, M7930, M7822(3),M7228,M792YL,M7213 > VAX LA180-RM205 (5) > RKV 11D > LA36 POWER BOARD (3) > FILP CHIP: M7251, M7892(4), M7800(21), M8290(3), M7822, M7822,M7271, > M8293,M7856(3),M7258 > BACK PLANE MF11-UP > MM11-S > RD51 AND RD50 > 11502X > CENTRIONIC CONNECTORS > TCO2 CONNECTOR > FLIP CHIP MDB-DR11C > 2 BOXES OF PLACTICS HARDWARE FOR HANGING PANEL CONERS 12" > BOARD RESTRANTS AND EXTENTIONS > DV11-KB > VERSATEC C-PDP11/DMA CONTROLS > BLOCKS FOR BACKPLANES INTERFACES > BREAD BOARDS > BACK PLANE EXTENSIONS > ASSORTED HARDWARE > PLESSEY PERIPHERALS SYSTEMS P/N 701792-100 > UNIBUS CABLE INTERFACE P/N BCOGR-10 > P/N BC212-10 CENTRONICS CABLE > TU58-K TAPES (5) > BRADY WIRE MAKER > EMULEX CS21 PROMS TO MAKE DZ11 > RS32 CONNECTOR CABLE > CENTRONIC CONNECTOR CABLE > 8" FLOPPY DOOR LATCH 11703-121-H1 (3) > CHERRY LK001-A KEYBOARDS (2) > CALAHAN SYSTEM BOARD DQ60 > LA 180 LOGIC BOARD (3) > M7270 BOARD > DECTAPE II TU58-XB RA LI5/ETCH E ORHIGHR MODULE WITH SERIAL INTERFACE > PDP POWER CONTOLLER > DEC TAPE II 7420642-00 MODEL TU58-XA > MODEL SP-PS2 POWER SUPPLY SOTEC CO , LTD > ASSORTED CABLES > TEST CONNECTORS > H3271 5012566D (4) > H325 5011698 CC > ISS 701 TERMINATOR PN 76000696-1 > CAPACITORS CABLES > PAPER TAPE TRAY > DIGITAL AIR FILTER PART# 121309-00 SERIAL # 1141 > BOARD SERIAL #O3752, 5167100219 > BOARD CONNECTOR > CLEANING SUPPLY FOR SYSTEMS > FERRITRONIC LTD ACTIVE FILTER MODEL 8200-3 > CONSOLE 25 FOOTER BC22A-25 > VERSATEC INK JET PRINTER ASSEMBLY > RD 52-A DISK DRIVE > LA 36 MPC M728(2) > LA 36 POWER BOARD > MAINTENANCE HARDWARE H041AA > > _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Jun 18 14:50:27 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:28 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] RE: FW: AVAILABLE-- PDP, DEC (list 1) Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A30@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Here is list number 1. Hopefully we can help save this stuff from the scrapper... -- --- David A Woyciesjes > ---------- > > This list is from Jon Ikoniak (ikoniak@snowhite.cis.temple.edu). > Please contact him with any offers and/or questions. It sounds like some > of > the bigger stuff needs to move ASAP... > > -- > > > > From: Jon Ikoniak (ikoniak@snowhite.cis.temple.edu) > > > > > NOTE: The following list was put together by an assistant who was not very familiar with this type of technology. This is a list of most of the small parts we still have in cabinets. This list should be used as a reference. We still have a number of schematics, user manuals, and other assorted documentation that we need to make a list up to send out. We also have a number of assorted electronic items we need to make a list up. Also there are still some larger items such as racks, processors, disks, etc, that need to be put into a list and sent out. We will do so as soon as we can. power cable computer connect cable #BC22E-25 /8149-000 2 computer monitor backs #4433422-01 power control 854 2 power control 832F 4 fan units P/N 70-8762with battery holder P/N 70-08769 Flip chip M105C #342B Flip chip control model# H716 P/N 30-09282 Rev Disc Motor #DF32-D/E, DS32-D/E and under this # DF-32, DS-32 Power Control (Aux Bat Term) P/N 70-14547-3d (h712A) Etchmaster 105067 2 power control 854 P/N 854 Disk control model RK11DSN AS18466 Power control 841A power supply h7420 a (h744,h744,h744,h745) power supply w/ big fans 7009811 47-63Hz 12 amps 1 power control 834 family 1 power control 854 family power supply h872 2 power supply h735 power outlet (PDP) 2 Back plane 877-D power controller H711ATODC Power supply 2 7116 Power supply H 711 A power supply (3) 2 h798 power supplies with 2 capacitors each h 704 power supply power supply P/N 54-11085 RX11 controller back plane with chip # W7257, W7256, W7255 RP08 Back Plane with Chip # W623, M111, W623, M216, M115, M102 Back PlaneRK11-D with Chip # M727, M7256, M7255, M7254(2) Back plane ? Chip # M206 M216 M206 M103 M510(2) M624 M623 M002 M206 M121 M621 M304 M627 M111 M103 M921 DC02F Double high back plates Model# h716 #NN00117 Chip # M115 M113 M111 M002(3) M216(2) M623(3) M 452 M111 M617 M 921 M304 M304 M921 M 216(2) M45 M707 M623(2) 2 sets of mounting brackets for hardware devices 5 fans power supply h7440 011-08070-60 copler 24K static RAM Micro Vax Back plane SER117C PERCOM H730 (5) H7100 A (3) power supply h753 power supply h7100 A power supply h735 power supply h721 (2) power supply h724 Demagnetizer #6501 power supply h779 power controller for RM04 // RM05 P/N 9600410-00 Power supply h728 (4) h317E (mulitiplxer) (2) Power supply h716-b (3) Power supply h719 Power supply 716 Motherboard B4062 RAX 'D' FSA 165506 LED BOARD Printer option distribution board #'s 50116670-P2 and 5411668 side2 G753 Board Power control 841-B Power supply h-754 (2) power supply h-744 (5) power supply h-745 (5) dec power controls 861C (2) Power control 861C power supply 7721a additional power supplies (h744, h744, h744, h745 h754) power supply h771-a power supply h764 power supply h 720e power control 861 B Model OB11-VA P/N BA11-VA Expansion boxes Model BALL-ME P/N h780-E Expansion boxes P/N 780-A DCA-9-25-73 10B (4) DCA 9-10-73 10C (7) DCA 9-27-73 10A (2) DCA 8174 (2) DCA 9-6-73 Power supply h771-a (3) power control BC05h Power supply 716 (4) TA 71403597 Board 1210328-0-0 Rev B interface to power supply h740 a P/n 70-09128 P/n 704 Va Power control 861F Type AD1-D Power control 844-B P/N70-20771-OB Ta71403633 board Power control 861A Power control 861C control panel for disk drive with connector m900B Led display front panel for a PDP ( Deck controller) Print head motor Assembly (LA36 or La180) CABLES Thick wire transceiver cable BNE3D-20 (5) 20 Amp 125/250 volts 4 prong hubbell cable printer cable connector N9700 BC11S-25 Double ended berg interface cable Transiver cable R232 25 pin male/female cable AUI cable BNE3K-05 (3) AUI cable BNE3K-02 (2) AUI cable BCCO6-15 AMIHNOL 57-30360 Computer power connetor cables (10) coaxial cables (4) one with P/N 70-19690-08 Thickwire transciver cable T-DP605 LA180 berg cable Printer cable connector One good end berg cable type? Computer power connectors (2) Power Distributor 5010863D 5410865 Unibus cables for rk devices BC11A-05 (2) Ribbon cables W-584(2) 2051579 007 RH-11AB Front display panel for PDP (3) Multiplexer Control panel for PDP system Controller P/N 70-11411-OK Controller P/N 70-14093 Controller P/N 70-14093 Power control 860-a power supply 708A P/N H-403-A (3) Power supply h745 (3), h744 (5), h 754 (2). Back Panel two high M51579 5409912 500991C ConectorsJ2-J11 M7728 LA36 MPC Ld340 Panel 5DTD1%1006 Rev Panel 161G16 ,P/N50452 Panel M77287C LA 31 Board LA 30 with boards M113, M7711, M7712,M7713, M7714, M7710, M7717, M7717, M7711, M7712. M7713, M7714, M7710, M7711, G436, M7715,G380 (4). LA30 with boards M77112, M7713, M7711, M7711, G8004, M7712, M 7713, G936, M7715, G380 (4). Phoenix 45 SU model 400-005-900 LA30 with borads M7721, M7712, M7713, M7724,M7710,M7717,M7717,G8004,G8004,M7721,M7716,G936,M7715,G380 (4). LA30 with boards M7389,M7731,M598,M7721,M7712,M7713,M7724,M7710,M7717 (2),M7710, M7716, 6336, M715,G380 (4) LA30 M7388,M7731,M598,M973,M7721,M7713,M7724,M7710,M7717 (2), M7716, 6036, M7715,G380(4) VT-62 IO Board Type1 94VO VT-62 MEM Board 916D (2) LA36 Power board P/N 7340624Z LA36 Power board P/N7160445W LA36 Power board P/N 8070860Z Unibus Paddle M9042 5012661B Unibus term M9044 5012749B UBA EXP box power dist 5409944 5009943A DD11-B Back plane RK11-D back plane DD11-A back plane MF11-4 back plane DD11-A back plane KD11-A Back plane MF11-CC Back plane 11/05 S back plane Ke11 Back plane Power Control 861 Power Control P/N 874-D 70-0956 3 Back plane VT-11 Back plane DD11-CK Back plane (2) DD11-B Back plane (2) P/N 70-09563 KE11-A Back plane with boards M827,M7211,234,M7220 ERROR CORRECTION LOGIC M773,M7787,M7775,M7776,M7774,M7787,M773,M7786 (4) M7772,M775,M7772,M7774,M7776,M7787,M7773,M7776,M7773,7776,M7774, M7773, 7776. M7775,M7772 Back plane with Board G110,G231,G110,G231,G110,G231 MIN DEVICE LEVEL INTERFACE BOARD M5903 (46),M7777 (7),M778(6),M7788(7),M7789(6) dec unibus M981 16k unibus timing M8293 (2) 16k x-y drive with board G235,M7234,G14,H2179, G235(2), H2170, G114,M7232,M7235, M7233,M7231 Back Panel with board (MF114 model) M8293, G114,G235,G114,M8293 _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From rschaefe at gcfn.org Tue Jun 18 13:25:21 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:28 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Fwd: Re: *** OLD (DEC/PDP) COMPUTER PARTS Message-ID: <64982.128.146.70.170.1024424721.squirrel@www.gcfn.org> Hopefully the attachment is still attached... I also have the first two lists, if there is any interest in them. 'Mail Jon if you're interested *and able to pick up*. I don't think he would be able to ship anything. Bob -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: *** OLD COMPUTER PARTS From: Jon Ikoniak To: Robert Schaefer Here is my third list of DEC stuff. Jon -------------- next part -------------- Hello, Below is another list of items that we have had and now we have put into a new list. This list is different from the other two previous lists that were sent out. In addition we have lost the area where we have been keeping the bigger items. So things like the PDP racks and VAX racks have to be moved out SOON. We would like to get homes for these big items since I know that they are becoming harder to come by. So if you are interested or know anyone who maybe in these items please let me know. We are still working on a list of manuals, schematics and other types of documents, which we hope to be ready soon. 1 VAX era 3 FT. short rack with RA81 Disk Drive 1 VAX era 3 FT. short rack with RX02 8" floppy drive 1 VAX era 3 FT. short rack with MICRO VAX casing 1 VAX era 3 FT. short rack empty 1 VAX era 5 FT. tall rack with two BA11 expansion boxes. 1 VAX era 5 FT. tall rack with RL02 & RL01 removaable disk packs 1 VAX era 5 FT. tall rack with RX02 8" floppy drive 1 VAX era 5 FT. tall rack empty 10 DEC RX01 and RX02 8" floppy disk drive units 20 LA100 DEC printers/terminals 6 LA34 DEC printers 5 Printronix printers 4 LA120 DEC Printers/Terminals 1 LA36 DEC Printer 1 DEC PDP 11 4 FT. rack with RK05 removeable disk pack unit 1 DEC PDP 11 4 FT. rack empty 1 DEC PDP 11 6 FT. rack empty 1 DEC PDP 11 4 FT. rack empty 1 DEC PDP 11 4 FT. rack empty 1 Short 3 FT. rack with RK05 removable disk pack unit 3 DEC PDP 8/12 6 FT. Racks empty. 2 DEC TU10 10" magnectic reel tape unit driver motors 1 DEC MICRO 11 backplane part no. M-9278-A 1 VERSATEC in jet printer unit Large number of various RK05 disk packs Large number of RL01 & RL02 disk packs A number of MASS bus cable pieces and terminators Various lengths of MASS bus cables for RPxx series 1 DEC PDP 11 DH11-AE backplane interface with various boards M5906 M7821 (2), M796 M7280 (2), M7279 M4540 M7288 M7289 M7277 M7278 1 KW12 Clock Control panel with cabling 1 PDP12 Series panel (Analog Channels 10-17) (Relay Register) 1 TEKTRONIX Type 601 Storage Display Unit Numerous 16 Port Multiplexors for PDP 11 configurations Several BA11 Expansion Boxes Deep Numerous VT220 & VT240 Terminals Numerous and various lengths of AUI Network Calbles Numerous H4000 Tansceivers From dave at naffnet.org.uk Wed Jun 19 01:18:31 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:28 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! References: Message-ID: <3D102237.31379A7E@naffnet.org.uk> Tony Duell wrote: > > Didn;t you also used to use a flat 2 pin balanced connector for radio > aerials? IIRC there were 2 fo them for AM and FM band aerials -- one had > a locating pin in the middle the other didn't. I've not used one of those > for _years_, though. > And a third with a locating pin offset from the centre so as to be out of the plane of the connectors. If it wasn't for a different impedance then I don't have a clue why such a connector even existed, unless it was a foolhardy attempt to lock you in to a particular manufacturer - breaking the pin made no difference to the connection... Most (all?) balanced aerials I see these days have screw connectors, or an ordinary 75 Ohm connector. Cheers, Dave. From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Jun 19 02:29:40 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:28 2005 Subject: Philips and auction finds (was: Re: I hate Radio Shack) Message-ID: >I actually tried that with one local shop, and they flat out said no. Its >quite possible that the Philips/Magnavox service docs can't be printed >(via normal means, anyway), but only viewed from those cdroms. If they can >be printed, its possible that the service shop has a limit as to how many >pages they can print (or even view) from those discs. PDF files can be marked to prevent printing, although I think it's down to the software to honour this. Limiting the number of viewings seems a little daft - I doubt that anyone does this! Antonio From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Jun 19 02:31:51 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:28 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! Message-ID: >lines) on it. It lets me use the various facilites of the SCART connector >without contiunally swearing at the darn plug! Since I've seen several people express this same sentiment, what exactly is the problem with SCART? My only experience of SCART has been to connect my TV to various input sources (a VCR, a camcorder and a satellite receiver) and for that it seems to work reasonably well. Antonio From micheladam at theedge.ca Wed Jun 19 03:30:51 2002 From: micheladam at theedge.ca (Michel Adam) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:28 2005 Subject: Philips and auction finds (was: Re: I hate Radio Shack) References: Message-ID: <001c01c2176b$a34f06c0$78697ed8@theedge.ca> Well, have you subscribed to the electronic editions of some newspapers lately? I gave the 'Globe and Mail', from Toronto, Ontario a try about 6 months ago. They have you install a special version of a PDF viewer, and you get charged 'per download' of an electronic copy. That copy is ONLY viewable on the PC it was downloaded to, and YOU CAN'T PRINT IT, in whole or parts. And after 15 DAYS, the file is NO LONGER VIEWABLE! Needless to say (but I'll say it anyway), the first copy I got was also the last... Michel Adam ----- Original Message ----- From: "Antonio Carlini" To: Sent: Wednesday, 19 June, 2002 1:29 Subject: RE: Philips and auction finds (was: Re: I hate Radio Shack) > > >I actually tried that with one local shop, and they flat out said no. Its > >quite possible that the Philips/Magnavox service docs can't be printed > >(via normal means, anyway), but only viewed from those cdroms. If they can > >be printed, its possible that the service shop has a limit as to how many > >pages they can print (or even view) from those discs. > > PDF files can be marked to prevent printing, although > I think it's down to the software to honour this. > > Limiting the number of viewings seems a little > daft - I doubt that anyone does this! > > Antonio From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Wed Jun 19 06:02:14 2002 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:28 2005 Subject: Computers in Public Xport References: Message-ID: <044e01c21780$c54b3bd0$0101a8c0@athlon> From: "Tony Duell" >I've taken things > like RL disk drives, PDP11/05s, AR88, etc on public transport... You surely must have had wheels on the AR88--(was it a D or an LF?) Or are you a Charles Atlas lookalike? ( I guess that dates me!) Dave B Ch Ch NZ From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Wed Jun 19 06:42:44 2002 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:28 2005 Subject: Computers in Public Xport In-Reply-To: <044e01c21780$c54b3bd0$0101a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <000201c21786$6d609d60$4d4d2c0a@atx> > You surely must have had wheels on the AR88--(was it a D or an LF?) > Or are you a Charles Atlas lookalike? ( I guess that dates me!) > Wouldn't be so sure of that When I was about 14 I took a B40* home from Lisle St** to Tonbridge (30 miles) by public transport. 10 stone weaklings 'r us! * The Navy equivalent to the AR88 - built for a battleship ... and looks and weighs it! ** Now that _really_ dates me ... of the three centres of surplus kit in London (Lisle St area, Tottenham Court Road, Edgware Road) only one shop survives in Edgware Rd and it's a poor shadow of its previous incarnation. Andy From dtwright at uiuc.edu Wed Jun 19 08:45:26 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:28 2005 Subject: Bulk Tape Eraser In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020618232310.01aed2e8@pop1.epm.net.co> References: <3.0.2.32.20020618091150.01a7ce74@pop1.epm.net.co> <3.0.2.32.20020618232310.01aed2e8@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <20020619134524.GB4559462@uiuc.edu> Hmm... All this talk of erasing things has got me thinking... If I need to erase some tapes, do you think taking them near one of the NMR magnets here and waving them around would do the trick? Carlos Murillo said: > At 11:26 PM 6/18/02 +0100, you wrote: > >> Wouldn't switching it on and off be many times more > >> efficient at producing a time-varying field? :-) . > > > >Isn't that one reason that those erasers run on AC? > > > >-tony > > It shows that I haven't been near one of them. But I did > repair the "eraser" for magnetic strips embedded in the > spine of all books at one of the Cornell University libraries, > where I worked for a while. Method: charge a few big caps > to about 340V, then discharge suddenly through a big coil. > > Dangerous. > > carlos. > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jun 19 09:33:22 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:29 2005 Subject: One SCSI tape connected to 2 hosts? References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020618133954.04222290@mail.zipcon.net> <10206182357.ZM19713@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <003601c2179e$441391c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> There's little question that this can be made to work. It should work without the addition of any hardware. SCSI expanders are usedable to add LUN's to a given SCSI ID. However, those are not supported by all adapters and even fewer OS'. However, it's not within the scope of most OS' in that the drivers are generally written with the assumption, not necessarily a correct one, that the host adapter is the only one attached to the SCSI. SCSI is an I/O channel, not just a mass-storage interface, and the scope of the drivers used in most operating systems is quite a bit less than a complete implementation of the standard. A SCSI should be capable of all the capabilities in the standard, including determining the capabilities of every device on its bus, including the SCSI level (-I, -II, -III) and width (8-bit, 16-bit, 32-bit) of the data channel, not to mention support for extensibility via LUN, and bridging to other channel types (e.g. to ethernet, fibre-channel, USB, etc, as offered via some devices. I know of no implementation that comes any further than about 10% of this distance. It's true, Windows is not a candidate for this sort of experiment, since it goes out willy-nilly tagging the resources it thinks it has every second or so. You'd think LINUX would have a fairly decent SCSI channel interface, but it seems to be even more limited than the ones in Windows. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Turnbull" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 4:57 PM Subject: Re: One SCSI tape connected to 2 hosts? > On Jun 18, 13:40, Geoff Reed wrote: > > There are SCSI sharing devices out there that will allow one device to be > > hooked to 2 machines concurrently. > > You can do it directly providing the controllers (and their hosts) are > well-behaved (which lets Windows off the hook). Back in the days when a > SCSI disk of any size cost nearly as much as the computer you might want to > attach it to, one enterprising company produced a system for the Acorn > Archimedes which allowed six Archimedes computers to share one SCSI disk > (and, I think, to "talk" to each other). I saw it working at an > exhibition, and I think it was made by Lingenuity. You might be able to > get more information from their sister comapany, Lindis: > http://www.lindis.co.uk, or from Jack Lillingston at Castle Technology: > http://www.castle.uk.co/ > (no that's not a typo, it is uk.co not co.uk) > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed Jun 19 10:44:56 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:29 2005 Subject: Bulk Tape Eraser Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A3D@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Chris > > > Or a drink coaster. The circuit boards is good as a backer for a > >notepad. And use the cases for banks, letter holder, pen holder, etc... > > Humm... I have a few dead drives here... maybe I'll yank the boards, use > some small hinges, and make myself a note pad case (I've seen them for > sale before, but never with components on them) > > But I think if I start making all my office desk items from used computer > parts, then the staff here will REALLY think I have gone insane... then > again, maybe that will be a good thing, they'll stay out of my office > (barricading the door and covering the floor with electronic junk hasn't > stopped them... it just makes them trip when trying to come near my desk) > Well, the 3' x 5' Jolly Roger flag on my wall has slowed them down a bit. :) Not to mention that my "office" is really in the back of the printer room, I just used some 7' cabinets to form a wall, so my office is sort of "hidden". -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed Jun 19 10:57:01 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:29 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Fwd: Re: *** OLD (DEC/PDP) COMPUTER PARTS Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A3E@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Bob --- Heh heh... These are the same lists I just sent, aren't they? :) > ---------- > From: Robert F Schaefer > > <> > > Hopefully the attachment is still attached... I also have the first two > lists, if there is any interest in them. 'Mail Jon if you're interested > *and able to pick up*. I don't think he would be able to ship anything. > > Bob > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: *** OLD COMPUTER PARTS > From: Jon Ikoniak > To: Robert Schaefer > > > > Here is my third list of DEC stuff. > > Jon > > > > -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Jun 19 11:01:23 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:29 2005 Subject: One SCSI tape connected to 2 hosts? In-Reply-To: <003601c2179e$441391c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Jun 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > It's true, Windows is not a candidate for this sort of experiment, since it > goes out willy-nilly tagging the resources it thinks it has every second or > so. You'd think LINUX would have a fairly decent SCSI channel interface, but > it seems to be even more limited than the ones in Windows. OK, what exactly makes you say this? I don't have a lot of experience myself in dealing with low-level SCSI other than connecting devices and using user-mode software to talk to them, so I don't know. However, I do know that there are IP over SCSI and probably other things for Linux that support, if not demand, multiple adaptors/systems being attached to the SCSI chain. With Linux's 'generic' scsi driver, you should be able to do just about anything with the adaptor that 1) the driver/hardware supports and 2) you can think of writing an application for. -- Pat From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Jun 19 11:11:30 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:29 2005 Subject: RT-11 on a PRO (was Re: Stuff available...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Jan 1970, David Betz wrote: > I'd like to find a good home for the following equipment: > > DEC VT-180 "Robin" with dual 5.25" floppy drives I wish I was near NH... > RT-11 distribution for the Pro-380 Hey, this reminds me of something I though of earlier. Would it be possible (not necessarly legal) to use a copy of RT-11 'for SimH' on the pro-3{5|8}0 ? Also, how would I go about getting data from an RX-50 from the PRO into an image that SimH likes? I've got access to a DOS and Linux box with a 5.25" HD drive that I've used to successfully make copies of RX-50's with teledisk. Is there a readily availble program, or will I have to go play with INT 13h on my DOS machine to try and copy things into an image file? Thanks -- Pat From ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 19 11:28:50 2002 From: ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk (Greg Elkin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:29 2005 Subject: One SCSI tape connected to 2 hosts? In-Reply-To: References: <003601c2179e$441391c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3D10BF52.4253.1C53873@localhost> Pat Finnegan wrote > With Linux's 'generic' scsi driver, you should be able to do just > about anything with the adaptor that 1) the driver/hardware > supports and 2) you can think of writing an application for. > I wonder if anyone has done a SCSI HDD (and/or Tape) emulator yet? I quite fancy the idea of my PC box behaving as a HDD for my MicroVAX3100... :) greg From rschaefe at gcfn.org Wed Jun 19 11:30:47 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:29 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Fwd: Re: *** OLD (DEC/PDP) COMPUTER PARTS In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A3E@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A3E@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <64488.128.146.70.176.1024504247.squirrel@www.gcfn.org> > Bob --- > Heh heh... These are the same lists I just sent, aren't they? :) Yup. :) Better to get it twice than not at all, IMHO. Bob > >> ---------- >> From: Robert F Schaefer >> >> <> >> >> Hopefully the attachment is still attached... I also have the first >> two lists, if there is any interest in them. 'Mail Jon if you're >> interested *and able to pick up*. I don't think he would be able to >> ship anything. >> >> Bob >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Re: *** OLD COMPUTER PARTS >> From: Jon Ikoniak >> To: Robert Schaefer >> >> >> >> Here is my third list of DEC stuff. >> >> Jon >> >> >> >> > -- > --- David A Woyciesjes > --- C & IS Support Specialist > --- Yale University Press > --- (203) 432-0953 > --- ICQ # - 905818 > Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 > Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed Jun 19 11:56:33 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:29 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Fwd: Re: *** OLD (DEC/PDP) COMPUTER PARTS Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A3F@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Robert F Schaefer > > > Bob --- > > Heh heh... These are the same lists I just sent, aren't they? :) > > Yup. :) Better to get it twice than not at all, IMHO. > > Bob > Hell yeah, I hear that. Especially when it's old computer equipment that needs a new home. Between this list, and the guys over at NetBSD/Vax, I bet almost all of this stuff gets picked up by us collectors and users... :) -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 19 12:29:52 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:29 2005 Subject: DEC QBUS buffers/control chips In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020619172952.77224.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > BTW, the 'example Unibus Interrupt' schematic in the PDP11 Bus Handbook > that I have is _very_ close to the internal logic of the DC013 chip. The > giveaway is the fact that said example schematic has all external > connections numbered, and those turn out to be the pin numbers of the > DC013. When Software Results made COMBOARDs, we chose to go with DEC's chips for that reason - they were debugged and understood and worked. We used the DC013s for Unibus designs, and the Qbus chipkit for Qbus designs (VAXBI designs *mandated* the BIIC, so it wasn't optional). I know we did our own DMA design so I have a pad of DC006 chips, but we did use the DC010 and DC005 and DC004s (probably the DC003s, too). I know we also used the 8641 where we didn't use a DEC chip. I _wish_ we'd used some of the older stuff (8881, 384, etc.) even though they are deprecated, I would have had spares for OMNIBUS machines, etc. The one disadvantage of DEC's chips was that they were expensive - ISTR $125/set for Qbus chips at one point. OTOH, for a board that retailed for $2,000 as a spare (no software license), it's a small percentage, but it was still one of the most expensive line items after the board itself. I know other vendors used things like the 74LS240 for BDAL buffers on the Qbus. Probably not spec, but it would work for most applications. We've had this thread before - what reasonable substitutions are. I was re-reading the Q22 IDE page mentioned earlier this week - he uses 8838 chips to buffer the dual 50-pin cables off of a Q22 extender. I was thinking of rolling one of these for myself. The problem is, of course, no VMS driver. Have to roll that, too. :-( -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 19 12:33:26 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:29 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] RE: FW: AVAILABLE-- PDP, DEC (list 2) In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A2F@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <20020619173326.59168.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- David Woyciesjes wrote: > Here's list number 2... > > > > This list is from Jon Ikoniak (ikoniak@snowhite.cis.temple.edu). > > Please contact him with any offers and/or questions. It sounds like > some of the bigger stuff needs to move ASAP... And *where* is this? Looks like some interesting items in there. Is anyone following up on it? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 19 12:38:45 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:29 2005 Subject: vax 4000 108 on ebay In-Reply-To: <007b01c21751$63072e40$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <20020619173845.56466.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bob Lafleur wrote: > Hmmm... No picture. > > It says keyboard and VT monitor for additional cost - for that price, it > should include them and free shipping. Heck, free personalized delivery! And an attractive "trade-show accessory" to stand next to it for pictures... -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed Jun 19 12:48:54 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:29 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] RE: FW: AVAILABLE-- PDP, DEC (list 2) Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A40@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Ethan Dicks > > And *where* is this? Looks like some interesting items in there. > > Is anyone following up on it? > > -ethan > > > From: Jon Ikoniak (ikoniak@snowhite.cis.temple.edu) > > It is a first come and take to a good home deal. We would rather > see these things go to good homes. We are in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. > We do pack and ship some items, it depends. Most of is 'come & get it'. As for who's following up, I would say just send an e-mail to Jon himself, and see what has not been spoken for. I'm not sure if they're looking to get money for the stuff or not. I only know that the stuff is avaiable. If I had the space (and time), I would drive right on down there with my pickup truck... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 19 12:40:26 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:29 2005 Subject: vax 4000 108 on ebay In-Reply-To: <3D101372.8010408@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20020619174026.39094.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Chad Fernandez wrote: > Priced a little high :-) No doubt. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2033046044 I'll sell my DEC 4000-710 w/384MB + 3 SCSI trays for a *lot* less than that. :-) For $4,500, I would deliver it anywhere in North America (and call it a summer vacation) -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Jun 19 12:42:52 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:29 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] RE: FW: AVAILABLE-- PDP, DEC (list 2) In-Reply-To: <20020619173326.59168.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > And *where* is this? Looks like some interesting items in there. Temple Univ. is right around Philly. > Is anyone following up on it? I will be going down there in short order to hopefully get things for RCS/RI (and RICM, I suppose). Of most interest are the older Flip Chips for our PDP-12 and LINC things. Not really terribly interested in the PDP-11 and later stuff. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 19 12:43:35 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:29 2005 Subject: C Ltd (was Re: One SCSI tape connected to 2 hosts?) In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020618202215.0345fc70@pc> Message-ID: <20020619174335.89751.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Foust wrote: > > In the Amiga market, I believe C Ltd. once offered > such a SCSI disk sharing arrangement with their specific > SCSI adapters and software. They did. I have one C Ltd controller and all the docs. > I never quite believed that it worked, but maybe it did. I think that it did work, but not as well as anyone would expect to use it in a high-demand environment. C Ltd was an early casualty in the Amiga marketplace. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 19 12:44:46 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:29 2005 Subject: Computers in cars (was: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020619174446.57827.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Merle K. Peirce" wrote: > > I hope it had a sunroof. Wouldn't that be a "DEC-roof"? -ethan > On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, John Honniball wrote: > > And that's reminded me of the PDP-11/34 rescue across London > > in a Mini. RL-01s, packs, PDP and rescue crew got stuck in > > a lift (elevator) until quite late at night. The tube (subway) > > had stopped runnng for the night, so everything and everybody > > had to go by car. Rather a small car. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Jun 19 13:04:27 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:29 2005 Subject: Computers in cars (was: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <20020619174446.57827.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: And if you stack two of them in a VW Westfalia, you'd have a ... ... double DEC'er bus. --John --- "Merle K. Peirce" wrote: > > I hope it had a sunroof. Wouldn't that be a "DEC-roof"? -ethan From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 19 13:34:11 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:29 2005 Subject: A VAX 6610 is rolling toward my garage ... In-Reply-To: <005301c216d0$40f74230$0300a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: <20020619183411.48639.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Geoff Roberts wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ethan Dicks" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 12:50 PM > > Subject: Re: A VAX 6610 is rolling toward my garage ... > > > > > > > I have several hundred pounds of SDI drives. I'd be happy with > > > a couple for show (and interchange, perhaps), but SCSI for better > > > > You just said you had a couple SDI drives... :) > > Considering an RA8x weighs in around 64Kg, yes. :^) Indeed... I have a working RA81 in a rack next to the 8200. I have a probably-defective RA81 on the floor next to it (have been playing with the internal serial diagnostic connector and I think the replacement HDA is dead). I also have an RA81 in storage. Fortunately, I have some smaller stuff, too - an MBA ESDI<->SDI box with a pair of 1.2GB ESDI disks, and a couple of RA70s. My goal is to shed all but one RA81 and keep the 5.25" drives. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From jrice at texoma.net Wed Jun 19 14:02:03 2002 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:29 2005 Subject: C Ltd (was Re: One SCSI tape connected to 2 hosts?) References: <20020619174335.89751.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D10D52B.20409@texoma.net> Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- John Foust wrote: > >>In the Amiga market, I believe C Ltd. once offered >>such a SCSI disk sharing arrangement with their specific >>SCSI adapters and software. > > > They did. I have one C Ltd controller and all the docs. > > >>I never quite believed that it worked, but maybe it did. > > > I think that it did work, but not as well as anyone would > expect to use it in a high-demand environment. > > C Ltd was an early casualty in the Amiga marketplace. > > -ethan > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com > > I had one too. I came with an Amiga 1000. I got it working a couple of times. I sold it last spring with the A1000 From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 19 14:44:05 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:29 2005 Subject: C Ltd (was Re: One SCSI tape connected to 2 hosts?) In-Reply-To: <3D10D52B.20409@texoma.net> Message-ID: <20020619194405.10065.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- "James L. Rice" wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > C Ltd was an early casualty in the Amiga marketplace. > > > > -ethan > > I had one too. I came with an Amiga 1000. I got it working a couple of > times. I sold it last spring with the A1000 Fortunately, I got it used, for free. The original owner, Ohio State, paid $1,000 for it with a 20MB drive. They threw it out in disgust, as I recall, after losing another ST506 mech (not ST225, some other brand) that wasn't even the original - _it_ was a replacement from what shipped from C Ltd. I remember being "happy" that at the same time, I used an XT controller (Everex WX-clone) with a Canadian 8-bit ISA adapter that only cost me $500 end-to-end for 20MB. When I got a UUCP feed (kumiss.UUCP), I had to add another ST225 to hold my mail spool. The "WEDGE" and WX-1 were eventually replaced by a Starboard/Stardrive. Still have them. Would use them again if I wanted to fire up my (Rejuvinated) A1000. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 19 14:50:04 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:29 2005 Subject: Computers in cars (was: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020619195004.50811.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- "J.C. Wren" wrote: > And if you stack two of them in a VW Westfalia, you'd have a ... > > ... double DEC'er bus. I've *done* that! I purchased an 11/34 (and a MINC) from the Ohio State Physics Department about 13 years ago for $500... it came in two racks, VT105, RL02s, RX02s, and a file cabinet of floppies and docs. I put one (empty) rack in the back of my 1976 VW Microbus front-side up, and slid the other rack front-side to the left. The CPU and heavy stuff went in the middle (no middle bench seat) under the racks. Still have all the equipment, including the 1976 Microbus. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jun 19 15:19:07 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:30 2005 Subject: C Ltd (was Re: One SCSI tape connected to 2 hosts?) In-Reply-To: <20020619194405.10065.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020619194405.10065.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >The "WEDGE" and WX-1 were eventually replaced by a Starboard/Stardrive. >Still have them. Would use them again if I wanted to fire up my >(Rejuvinated) A1000. I've got a Tecmar T-disk setup (20MB) on my A1000 and actually found a spare drive assembly for it a few months ago. It'd be cool to come up with some of the other matching items Tecmar made to go with it, such as the modem. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Jun 19 15:21:36 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:30 2005 Subject: New Museum inds Message-ID: <011901c217ce$ea578020$e6000240@default> A slow two weeks and I keep missing the deals (such as a Sega Normad for $6.99 and new in the box Dreamcast systems for $29.95)? 1. A EaglePC-2 from a scrapper for $3 just unit no KB or monitor came with it. 2. A large manual called Personal Programming for the TI 58C/59. 3. IBM 5150 PC in great shape for $2.50. 4. PowerPC Mac 7200/90 for $2.50. 5. A R.O.B. nintendo robot, just the body no other parts came with it. $1.50 6. Another TurboGrafx 16 without the power supply for $5.00 7. Cisco Catalyst 2820 for $5 at the flea market. 8. Several mousepads for that part of the collection (about 20 picked up). 9. Mac Performa 450 for free at an Auction. 10. ti 486 cpu chip for my chip collection. 11. About 30 various cartridges for the 2600, Atari 400/800, TI99/4A, NES, and other consoles. 12. 2 - Performa 575 for free at the auction. 13. Atari 800XL for free. 14. IBM PS/2 model L40 SX notebook non working came free with a Power Mac G3 tower at the flea market. 15. A couple of platium Apple IIe's. 16. Nec multispin 2V model CDR-300 for Macs'. 17. Compaq Proliant Server rack/cabinet unit. 18. IBM Thinkpad 701c with the fold out keyboard design. 19. TRS-80 Micro Color computer in the box for $3 at the flea market. 20. TRS-80 Disk/video interface Cat# 26-3806. 21. hp model 715/100 PA-Risc powered for $2 at auction. 22. Xscribe Xec5 unit only for free. From rschaefe at gcfn.org Wed Jun 19 15:21:49 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:30 2005 Subject: A VAX 6610 is rolling toward my garage ... In-Reply-To: <20020619183411.48639.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020619183411.48639.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <65078.128.146.70.109.1024518109.squirrel@www.gcfn.org> > > --- Geoff Roberts wrote: >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Ethan Dicks" >> > To: >> > Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 12:50 PM >> > Subject: Re: A VAX 6610 is rolling toward my garage ... >> > >> > >> > > I have several hundred pounds of SDI drives. I'd be happy with a >> > > couple for show (and interchange, perhaps), but SCSI for better >> > >> > You just said you had a couple SDI drives... :) >> >> Considering an RA8x weighs in around 64Kg, yes. :^) > > Indeed... I have a working RA81 in a rack next to the 8200. I have a > probably-defective RA81 on the floor next to it (have been playing with > the internal serial diagnostic connector and I think the > replacement HDA is dead). I also have an RA81 in storage. > Fortunately, I have some smaller stuff, too - an MBA ESDI<->SDI box > with a pair of 1.2GB ESDI disks, and a couple of RA70s. I have a RA82 in the bottom of the TU81+, and a RA92 in the bottom of the VAX 6320. Perhaps soon I will be able to boot the newest addition to the VAXherd, a VAX 4000 200, via the RA82. I'll worry about PAKs later, I guess. How cool is a console port on a harddrive? Would an 313373 hAx0r understand the rush of loggin in to your mass storage device? > > My goal is to shed all but one RA81 and keep the 5.25" drives. I wouldn't mind another RA92 in the VAX either. > > -ethan ob From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Jun 19 15:31:44 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:30 2005 Subject: Making RT-11 bootable In-Reply-To: <3CEC5E42.BA9E4BA@compsys.to> Message-ID: I'm trying to get a bootable copy of RT-11 onto an RX50 so I can try to install it onto my DEC Pro380. Here's what I've heard so far (see below for question). On Wed, 22 May 2002, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > > Has anyone ever hacked RSX-11M or RSX-11M+ to work on it? Are there any > > guides for RSX-11M(+)? How should I cure my insanity? :) > > Since PO/S is really based on RSX-11 (if I remember correctly), > your are already running RSX-11. RT-11 also runs on the PRO350, > but you must have an RX50 that allows RT-11 to boot. If > you have all the required files on the RX50 that runs on a normal > PDP-11, then for the RT11XM monitor, add (assuming they are missing): OK, does anyone know what the 'required files' are? I've got a copy of RT-11 V5.03 on an 'RL02'; however, an RL02's worth of excess files won't quite fit on an RX50. > PIX.SYS > DWX.SYS > DZX.SYS > If you then execute the command: > COPY/BOOT:DZ DU0:RT11XM.SYS DU0: Thanks for any help. -- Pat From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jun 19 16:38:48 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:30 2005 Subject: Apple hardcard? Re: Stuff available for pickup in southern NH In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020619163848.11471afe@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:41 AM 1/4/70 -0500, you wrote: >I would be interested in the following items in trade: > >Hardcard for the Apple II What? I've never heard of one. Can you post a picture? Joe > From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Jun 19 15:58:53 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:30 2005 Subject: Apple hardcard? Re: Stuff available for pickup in southe In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020619163848.11471afe@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > > >Hardcard for the Apple II > > What? I've never heard of one. Can you post a picture? > AFAIk, there is a company making them using laptop IDE drives that work in the ][ and //GS systems. g. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 19 16:13:50 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: Making RT-11 bootable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020619211350.95060.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Pat Finnegan wrote: > I'm trying to get a bootable copy of RT-11 onto an RX50 so I can try to > install it onto my DEC Pro380. Here's what I've heard so far (see below > for question). > > On Wed, 22 May 2002, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > > ...RT-11 also runs on the PRO350, > > but you must have an RX50 that allows RT-11 to boot. If > > you have all the required files on the RX50 that runs on a normal > > PDP-11, then for the RT11XM monitor, add (assuming they are missing): > > OK, does anyone know what the 'required files' are? I've got a copy of > RT-11 V5.03 on an 'RL02'; however, an RL02's worth of excess files won't > quite fit on an RX50. I do not know off the top of my head, but I have an original distro of RT-11 v5.3 on RX50 that includes an extra disk for the Pro series. At the moment, I don't have a PeeCee with a working 5.25" drive (got all the parts I need; just need to get it all put into the same box again). Once I do, I plan to make disk images of what I have (as well as to digest several hundred MicroVAX VMS distro floppies) I won't be able to give you an answer right away, but I do have the physical means to do so (presuming the disks still read - I haven't read them since they fell into my hands). So if anyone knows off the top of their head, speak up. Otherwise, I'll see if I can pull various resources together to get an answer. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 19 16:17:37 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: A VAX 6610 is rolling toward my garage ... In-Reply-To: <65078.128.146.70.109.1024518109.squirrel@www.gcfn.org> Message-ID: <20020619211737.64508.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Robert F Schaefer wrote: > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Ethan Dicks" > >> > To: > >> > Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 12:50 PM > >> > Subject: Re: A VAX 6610 is rolling toward my garage ... > > > ...I have a... defective RA81...been playing with > > the internal serial diagnostic connector... > > I have a RA82 in the bottom of the TU81+, and a RA92 in the bottom of the > VAX 6320. Pah! So new! > How cool is a console port on a harddrive? Would an 313373 hAx0r > understand the rush of loggin in to your mass storage device? No kidding. DEC FS had this hand-held terminal that was powered off of a jack next to the DB-25. I've seen pictures but never seen one in use. We always use to run a cable out to a real VT100. I have also used a Palm Pilot with travel cable and VT100 app as a terminal for monitoring this drive and for reconfiguring Cisco routers. The only thing cooler than a serial port on a mass-storage device is talking to it on a terminal that fits in your pocket! -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 19 16:20:27 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: New Museum inds In-Reply-To: <011901c217ce$ea578020$e6000240@default> Message-ID: <20020619212027.95796.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- "John R. Keys Jr." wrote: > 4. PowerPC Mac 7200/90 for $2.50. Not bad. I finally got the VRAM I needed by purchasing a 7600/132 with 108MB of RAM and a 4GB disk for $15. If I'd waited, it probably would have been marked down to $10 next Tuesday, but it was the only one so equipped... it was the consultant's station from a university Mac lab - the student machines were the same price, but with 1/4 the disk and RAM. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 19 16:29:22 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: Amiga 1000 hard drives (was Re: C Ltd (was Re: One SCSI tape connected to 2 hosts?)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020619212922.49153.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jeff Hellige wrote: > >The "WEDGE" and WX-1 were eventually replaced by a Starboard/Stardrive. > >Still have them. Would use them again if I wanted to fire up my > >(Rejuvinated) A1000. > > I've got a Tecmar T-disk setup (20MB) on my A1000 and > actually found a spare drive assembly for it a few months ago. It'd > be cool to come up with some of the other matching items Tecmar made > to go with it, such as the modem. I've seen pictures. I _have_ a T-disk but no controller and no PSU. I do not recall where I got it, but I'm sure it was 10+ years ago and I'm sure it was free. My Amiga disk evolution was WEDGE/ST225 -> StarDrive/ Maxtor LXT213S* -> A3000/DEC RZ26. The T-disk has a DC37 connector for SCSI, and a SCSI<->ST506 bridge inside, right? I have the ads trumpeting it from day one. Shame it took a very long time to hit the market. They could have been at the tippy-top of a teenie-tiny market. :-) -ethan * The LXT213S was $375 for 200MB, semi-new (still under warranty which was good when the magic smoke got out). I remember being very happy with that drive. Still have it; it still has AmigaDOS on it. For power, I mounted it on top of a C= 1571 power supply that I disassembled and ran screws up through the perforations to keep them attached. There was barely enough room on the back to use the perforations to screw down a blue-ribbon connector on 5cm of cable to the drive on top of the PSU (people used to love to see me bring my Amiga to meetings - they never knew what would be hanging off the side next; at one point, the dual ST225s were in a recycled Burroughs dual-full-height floppy cage just like the one I got a mate to at Dayton this year for $5). __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From allain at panix.com Wed Jun 19 16:34:04 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: A VAX 6610 is rolling toward my garage ... References: <20020619211737.64508.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <014a01c217d9$09a75ae0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > No kidding. DEC FS had this hand-held terminal that was > powered off of a jack next to the DB-25. I've seen pictures > but never seen one in use. I have a thingie here called a DEC-VT12, from 1982. It's a Termiflex with two-line LED alphanumeric display, about 2.5x the size of a cellphone. I can put up a picture for those interested. John A. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 19 16:39:49 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! In-Reply-To: <20020616172807.A665A18336@mudd.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <20020619213949.27143.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tim Shoppa wrote: > One Lancaster book that I've never seen is "Son of Cheap Video". Any > comments on it? I wish I _could_ comment on it. When I picked up a load of S100 stuff from an older gentleman around the corner (who had soldered it all when it was new), he kept his "Son of Cheap Video". I have the original from when I was a kid and know where a sequel is located, but it didn't get to follow me home. :-( -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From emu at ecubics.com Wed Jun 19 16:50:09 2002 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: A VAX 6610 is rolling toward my garage ... References: <20020619211737.64508.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D10FC91.726F1C72@ecubics.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > The only thing cooler than a serial port on a mass-storage device > is talking to it on a terminal that fits in your pocket! I think, if you can telnet in a mass-storage device, that's cool ;-) From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jun 19 16:49:53 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: Amiga 1000 hard drives (was Re: C Ltd (was Re: One SCSI tape connected to 2 hosts?)) In-Reply-To: <20020619212922.49153.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020619212922.49153.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >I've seen pictures. I _have_ a T-disk but no controller and no PSU. I >do not recall where I got it, but I'm sure it was 10+ years ago and I'm >sure it was free. My Amiga disk evolution was WEDGE/ST225 -> StarDrive/ >Maxtor LXT213S* -> A3000/DEC RZ26. The PSU is odd in that a single one had leads going to both the sidecar/controller and to the drive itself. I went from the T-disk to a GVP HD8+ on an A500 and then to my A3000 after a number of PC's. >The T-disk has a DC37 connector for SCSI, and a SCSI<->ST506 bridge inside, >right? I've never disassembled either the sidecar or the drive enclosure so I'm not sure what the actual interface is. I started to take the drive enclosure apart once but it was doing it's best to stay together and not reveal what was inside! >I have the ads trumpeting it from day one. Shame it took a very long >time to hit the market. They could have been at the tippy-top of a >teenie-tiny market. :-) If you ever get any of the ads scanned, I'd be interested in seeing them. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 19 17:02:28 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: A VAX 6610 is rolling toward my garage ... In-Reply-To: <014a01c217d9$09a75ae0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20020619220228.59985.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Allain wrote: > > No kidding. DEC FS had this hand-held terminal that was > > powered off of a jack next to the DB-25. I've seen pictures > > but never seen one in use. > > I have a thingie here called a DEC-VT12, from 1982. > It's a Termiflex with two-line LED alphanumeric display, > about 2.5x the size of a cellphone. That sounds like the creature. > I can put up a picture for those interested. Sure. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From mrbill at mrbill.net Wed Jun 19 17:03:45 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: [jsbragg@pacific.net.au: An old VAX may need a new home...] Message-ID: <20020619220345.GG6613@mrbill.net> Contact Scott directly. ----- Forwarded message from Scott Bragg ----- From: "Scott Bragg" To: Subject: An old VAX may need a new home... Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 04:05:44 -0700 I few years back an old friend who I know longer have contact with gave me an old MicroVAX and additional storage unit. I found your site just before heading to bed so may pick this conversation up later and provide more details. The system stopped booting but I think it was a minor problem so tried to repair it myself. However just at that time I found I had to move house so the machine has been sitting in my second bedroom for 2 years collecting dust with some parts not attached. I'm moving house in 1-3 months time and won't have room for a lot of my old equipment, so if I cannot use it I'll either give it away or throw it out (however this VAX is very heavy so maybe I won't be throwing it as such ). I may also have a couple of manuals somewhere too. I'm in Erskineville, Sydney, Australia - so if you know someone who either can help me get it running again and/or wants it, let me know. As I said, I'm heading to bed now, I'll provide more useful details in the morning. Regards, Scott Bragg ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Jun 19 17:06:05 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: A VAX 6610 is rolling toward my garage ... Message-ID: What about mass storage devices that have blinkenlights computers built into them? For example, old StorageTek libraries had Prime's in them, forget what model, but they were ones with front panels. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 19 16:40:16 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: Philips and auction finds (was: Re: I hate Radio Shack) In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Jun 19, 2 00:00:18 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2455 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020619/de853040/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 19 17:06:57 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: DEC QBUS buffers/control chips In-Reply-To: <20020619172952.77224.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jun 19, 2 10:29:52 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 614 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020619/253f33ef/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 19 17:09:15 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: Computers in cars (was: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: from "J.C. Wren" at Jun 19, 2 02:04:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 348 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020619/fcda650e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 19 16:57:56 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: Computers in Public Xport In-Reply-To: <000201c21786$6d609d60$4d4d2c0a@atx> from "Andy Holt" at Jun 19, 2 12:42:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1026 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020619/261f7c32/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 19 16:47:37 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! In-Reply-To: <3D102237.31379A7E@naffnet.org.uk> from "Dave Woodman" at Jun 19, 2 07:18:31 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1185 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020619/a4ee5836/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 19 16:49:37 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: Philips and auction finds (was: Re: I hate Radio Shack) In-Reply-To: from "Antonio Carlini" at Jun 19, 2 08:29:40 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 563 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020619/18d2deac/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 19 16:52:12 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! In-Reply-To: from "Antonio Carlini" at Jun 19, 2 08:31:51 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1039 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020619/8cad2159/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 19 16:53:33 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: Computers in Public Xport In-Reply-To: <044e01c21780$c54b3bd0$0101a8c0@athlon> from "Dave Brown" at Jun 19, 2 11:02:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 445 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020619/f28341b1/attachment.ksh From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Jun 19 17:49:18 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: Computers in Public Xport In-Reply-To: References: <044e01c21780$c54b3bd0$0101a8c0@athlon> from "Dave Brown" at Jun 19, 2 11:02:14 pm Message-ID: <33034.64.220.165.152.1024526958.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Tony wrote: > I normally describe myself as being the size and weight of a > fully-stuffed H960 rack :-). Perhaps that explains it. If you're the size and weight of a fully-stuffed H960 rack (stuffed with DEC gear, I presume), you're extremely under-tall. You probably should be at least twice as tall as the H960. From at258 at osfn.org Wed Jun 19 18:20:26 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: Computers in cars (was: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Are we to infer from that, that laid on their side, they'd be a Lodekka? On Wed, 19 Jun 2002, J.C. Wren wrote: > And if you stack two of them in a VW Westfalia, you'd have a ... > > ... double DEC'er bus. > > --John > > > --- "Merle K. Peirce" wrote: > > > > I hope it had a sunroof. > > Wouldn't that be a "DEC-roof"? > > > > -ethan > > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 19 18:28:07 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: Computers in Public Xport In-Reply-To: <33034.64.220.165.152.1024526958.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Jun 19, 2 03:49:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 479 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020620/b467c8be/attachment.ksh From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Jun 19 18:40:34 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: E-6B usage References: Message-ID: <3D111672.5020309@tiac.net> Well, I can't say what the rules are today, but when I took my tests, you had to demonstrate that you understood what the calculations were for, and how to understand the results in terms of aircraft performance. How you went about the calculations was not an issue. J.C. Wren wrote: > Surely you're not telling me the FAA no longer requires students to > know how to perform these functions manually, nor requires them to > demonstrate that knowledge? > > > > --John > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bob Shannon > Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 09:52 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: E-6B usage > > The FAA has no such requirment at all! > > I'm a private pilot and I own my own plane. During primary flight > training I was introduced to the E6B > and found it quite fustrating to use. So I threw some money at > the problem and bought an electronic > E6B from Sporty's Pilot Shop. > > This was APPROVED for use during the FAA written test, no > questions asked. During my checkride no questions were asked that > needed any of the calculations these things perform. > > And this was some 6 or 7 years back now. I can't guess when any > 'requirment' was removed, but the Sporty's > electronic E6B was pretty new at the time. > > Now of course all the E6B functions are built into most Loran and > GPS units, and I've not seen a student > pilot laboring over a mechanical E6B in a long long time. I'm not > even sure if they still train pilots with them > at all at the local flight school (FIT). > > J.C. Wren wrote: > >> As far as I know, the FAA still requires students to know how to use an >>E-6B, and they're still very readily available. I don't remember the exact >>rules anymore since it's been sometime since I've flown, but you are not >>permitted to rely on a device that requires external power or batteries, >>without a manual fallback system, since either or both may fail in flight. >> >> There are a number of E-6B type computers out there, both mechanial wheels, >>and electronic. Sportys sold a calculator like E-6B (I have one still), and >>it's batteries like crazy. Some E-6B ares much classier than others. Mine >>is a mid-range solid aluminum wheel. There are plastic ones, hybrids, etc. >>Some are quite attractive, and I believe collected by some people. >> >> --John >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On >>Behalf Of Jeffrey Sharp >>Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 11:21 >>To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>Subject: Re: VERY good weekend >> >> >>On Wednesday, June 12, 2002, Don Maslin wrote: >> >>>> A Telex EB6 Dead Reckoning Computer. >>>> >>>Well, 1975 would make it a fairly late model since they were commonly used >>>during - and probably before - WWII. >>> >> >>I think they are still in use. I was in flight school about 5-6 years ago >>(didn't finish), and my instructor had me using an E-6B every now and then. >>I bought mine brand new from Sporty's Pilot Shop in 1996. >> >>BTW, one place I trained (Airman Flight School in Norman, OK) is also one >>place where Zacarias Moussaoui trained. He even seems to have opened a bank >>account and joined a gym here in Norman. Freaky. >> >>-- >>Jeffrey Sharp >> >>The email address lists@subatomix.com is for mailing list traffic. Please >>send off-list mail to roach jay ess ess at wasp subatomix beetle dot com. >>You may need to remove some bugs first. >> >> >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020619/c876c6f3/attachment.html From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jun 19 18:46:37 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: One SCSI tape connected to 2 hosts? References: Message-ID: <002f01c217eb$8d5f9480$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well, for starters, multiple hosts on a SCSI is a feature that the LINUX drivers didn't support back in '95 or so when I exhausted my own interest in such things. Secondly, the SCSI doesn't attempt to effect commands that are only found on SCSI-II devices in the context of SCSI-I targets, but rather "just gives up" and complains when it encounters a SCSI-I perfectly capable of doing what the SCSI-II command wants, though with a couple of commands. Some drivers for some systems do this, but not the ones in Windows, and not the ones in LINUX that I saw. Their behavior, in fact, when confronted with some devices, e.g NODEMs, or tape libraries, or, for that matter, SCSI bus expanders was quite primitive. From what I recall, they didn't support command queueing, didn't support disconnect, didn't support chaining, and wouldn't do a number of operations without being "babysat" by the host. The drivers did, apparently, work very well for handling disk drives. I don't know how well they handled CD writers, as that was another issue of the time. I've only seen a couple of SCSI printers, but they didn't deal at all well with non-mass-storage devices. One local company developed a CDR/label printer combo that completely fell apart under the LINUX SCSI. Of course, it didn't fare well under Windows, either. Perhaps that's changed, but I would be surprised. The main annoyance was that if the software attempted to use a SCSI-II command, and the device was a SCSI-I device, it just went "tilt" and didn't attempt to recover by using the necessary two commands. Further, when it was formatting a tape, which took some time, it couldn't do much else on the SCSI. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Finnegan" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 10:01 AM Subject: Re: One SCSI tape connected to 2 hosts? > On Wed, 19 Jun 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > It's true, Windows is not a candidate for this sort of experiment, since it > > goes out willy-nilly tagging the resources it thinks it has every second or > > so. You'd think LINUX would have a fairly decent SCSI channel interface, but > > it seems to be even more limited than the ones in Windows. > > OK, what exactly makes you say this? I don't have a lot of experience > myself in dealing with low-level SCSI other than connecting devices and > using user-mode software to talk to them, so I don't know. However, I do > know that there are IP over SCSI and probably other things for Linux that > support, if not demand, multiple adaptors/systems being attached to the > SCSI chain. With Linux's 'generic' scsi driver, you should be able to do > just about anything with the adaptor that 1) the driver/hardware supports > and 2) you can think of writing an application for. > > -- Pat > > From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Jun 19 18:50:41 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: IMSAI News? References: Message-ID: <3D1118D1.8000500@tiac.net> While you might get register-level specifications for some video chip on an ISA or PCI card, it would be difficult to get a production quantity of identical (obsolete) cards, so each user would have to roll their own. Hardly a practical approach. Being a hardware fan, I hate to admit, it seems that the Imsai series two is easily replaced by a CP/M emulator program running on a PC, with the MAJOR exception being that a PC has no front pannel. But a software front pannel GUI could easily be developed for a modern machine. That might make a great learning tool for people who have not gotten to use a 'real' vintage machine. Tony Duell wrote: >>Last I spoke with the people at Imsai, the machine had some major issues >>in my eyes... >> >>First, its no longer a S-100 box. (deal breaker right there)... None >>of your existing >>S-100 stuff can be used with the machine, and with no expansion bus, >>Imsai has turned >> one of the first open architecture boxes into something more like a Mac >>(super-Eeeek!). >> >>Secondly, it was going to use a ISA VGA board for video display (Eeeek, >>not ISA)! >> > > >I am trying to figure out how this machine is in _any_ way superior to >any of the following : > >1) A CP/M machine with built-in video output (Epson QX10, etc). Not that >much CP/M software used anything other than a text terminal. > >2) A random collection of S100 cards from my junk box. > >3) A Z80 single-board development system connected to my PC's serial port. > >All of the above would seem to do what the Imsai 2 would do -- and be >easier to maintain, easier to expand, and plain more fun to use. > >>This last bit was really problematic becuse the Z800 cannot execute the >>VGA bios code >>in the ISA board's rom. >> > >Can't yuo get a VGA card where the registers are documented well enough >to at least put the think into a simple text/graphics mode without using >the BIOS ROM code? In other words, ignore the ROM and hit the hardware >directly from the Z80? I know I'd have tried soemthing like that if I'd >_had_ to use a VGA card with a CP/M machine... > >>These issues were enough for me to realize that the Series-2 machines >>were not for me. >> >>But the idea of having a PC motherboard in there along with the Z800 >>~could~ make for >>a very interesting teaching platform. But once you have the PC >>motherboard in there, why >>run the actual Z800 CPU at all? Emulation would probably be much faster. >> > >If the Z80/Z800 bus was availabel to the user, then the reason for >running the real hardware is obvious. But apparently it isn't.... This >seems rediculous... > >-tony > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020619/e817498a/attachment.html From foo at siconic.com Wed Jun 19 19:06:31 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: Computers in cars (was: I hate Radio Shack In-Reply-To: <20020619174446.57827.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Jun 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- "Merle K. Peirce" wrote: > > > > I hope it had a sunroof. > > Wouldn't that be a "DEC-roof"? That pun doesn't work. How about "sun-DEC"? I think that's what you were shooting for. > You should. That was very lame :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Jun 19 19:08:36 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: Computers in Public Xport In-Reply-To: References: <33034.64.220.165.152.1024526958.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Jun 19, 2 03:49:18 pm Message-ID: <33101.64.220.165.152.1024531716.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Ooops... I thought the H960 was the 6' (36U or so) rack that most older > PDP11 systems lived in. What is the H-number for that cabinet? It is. It's not uncommon for a fully loaded one to weigh over 250 kg. From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Jun 19 19:14:47 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: LSI ADM3A EBAY References: <004501c216ce$1d1fe9e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <02Jun18.101200edt.119046@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <3D111E77.1050903@tiac.net> I've got a 'working' ADM-3A on the East Coast, its a blue-colored one if that matters. Jeff Hellige wrote: >> There's one up just now in L.A. with a buy it now of $25. > > > The seller keeps relisting it. He states in the listing that he > released the magic smoke. Might not be bad for someone fairly close > to him who might want it to tinker with. It wouldn't be worth it to > me to have it shipped to the east coast though. > > Jeff From louiss at gate.net Wed Jun 19 20:05:55 2002 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: Source for components on Internet? In-Reply-To: <20020619044851.ZAJC867.imf11bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Jun 2002 00:46:40 -0400, Glen Goodwin wrote: #> From: Louis Schulman # #> There is a good store in #> Orlando, but that is a long drive and they are much more expensive than #> the mail order places. # #Hey Louis, which place here are you referring to? # I was speaking of Starcraft. They have crazy old stuff available nowhere else. I could spend hours there sifting through bins and filling envelopes with little parts. Louis From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Jun 19 20:01:46 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: Making RT-11 bootable In-Reply-To: <20020619211350.95060.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Jun 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Pat Finnegan wrote: > > I'm trying to get a bootable copy of RT-11 onto an RX50 so I can try to > > install it onto my DEC Pro380. Here's what I've heard so far (see below > > for question). > > > > On Wed, 22 May 2002, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > > > > ...RT-11 also runs on the PRO350, > > > but you must have an RX50 that allows RT-11 to boot. If > > > you have all the required files on the RX50 that runs on a normal > > > PDP-11, then for the RT11XM monitor, add (assuming they are missing): > > > > OK, does anyone know what the 'required files' are? I've got a copy of > > RT-11 V5.03 on an 'RL02'; however, an RL02's worth of excess files won't > > quite fit on an RX50. > > I do not know off the top of my head, but I have an original distro > of RT-11 v5.3 on RX50 that includes an extra disk for the Pro series. OK, I now have a bootable RX-50. My question is what is the difference between DL.SYS and DLX.SYS drivers? Is the non-x version unibus and the with-x version qbus or something? -- Pat From louiss at gate.net Wed Jun 19 21:15:05 2002 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: TV Typewriter II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi all, Now that my SWTPc is running (and with a floppy disk running Flex 2) , I am working on restoring its original terminal, the famous TV Typewriter II. For those who don't know, this was the first home hobbyist computer terminal. It was actually developed before the first micro, and was the only inexpensive terminal available for the first micros. This second version was a reworking of the concept originally introduced by Don Lancaster. In any event, mine is not working. No video output. Some of the circuitry involving the sync generation, where the timers, diodes and AC reference signal are involved, seems to be amiss. Thanks to Michael Holley, I have the schematics and construction directions, but there really is no diagnostic help. My problem is I don't know where to start. On a computer, you have a processor, and known things happen when you hit the reset button. The TV Typewriter is mostly TTL logic, and has no processor. So, it really doesn't do anything when you turn it on. Any suggestions as to how to go about diagnosing such a beast would be appreciated. Louis From oliv555 at arrl.net Wed Jun 19 22:51:32 2002 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: Making RT-11 bootable References: Message-ID: <3D115144.9080606@arrl.net> Pat Finnegan wrote: > On Wed, 19 Jun 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > >>--- Pat Finnegan wrote: >> >>>I'm trying to get a bootable copy of RT-11 onto an RX50 so I can try to >>>install it onto my DEC Pro380. Here's what I've heard so far (see below >>>for question). >>> >>>On Wed, 22 May 2002, Jerome H. Fine wrote: >> >>>>...RT-11 also runs on the PRO350, >>>>but you must have an RX50 that allows RT-11 to boot. If >>>>you have all the required files on the RX50 that runs on a normal >>>>PDP-11, then for the RT11XM monitor, add (assuming they are missing): >>> >>>OK, does anyone know what the 'required files' are? I've got a copy of >>>RT-11 V5.03 on an 'RL02'; however, an RL02's worth of excess files won't >>>quite fit on an RX50. >> >>I do not know off the top of my head, but I have an original distro >>of RT-11 v5.3 on RX50 that includes an extra disk for the Pro series. > > > OK, I now have a bootable RX-50. My question is what is the difference > between DL.SYS and DLX.SYS drivers? Is the non-x version unibus and the > with-x version qbus or something? > > -- Pat > > There were two sets of drivers provided, as i recall. The x-ending were used with the RT11-XM (extended memory) monitor, the non-x set was used by the other 3 RT monitors -nick o From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Wed Jun 19 21:31:57 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: Up For Trade; Was Re: Timex Sinclair 1000.... Message-ID: <20020620025054.XIQE26470.imf24bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Doc > *Pinball > *The List Manager > +SuperMath > *The Check Book Manager > -The Mixed Game Bag I # has black&red insert, just no jewel box > +Mixed Game Bag II > *Mixed Game Bag III > +The Organizer > *The Coupon Manager > +The Gambler > +Vu-Calc > +The Budgeter Sorry, Doc, I've got all those :>( Glen 0/0 If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if not now, when? -- Pirkei Avot From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Wed Jun 19 21:50:38 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: Source for components on Internet? Message-ID: <20020620025101.XITF26470.imf24bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> ---------- > From: Louis Schulman > I was speaking of Starcraft. They have crazy old stuff available > nowhere else. I could spend hours there sifting through bins and > filling envelopes with little parts. > > Louis Oh, I thought the discussion was on stocking distributors as opposed to salvage/surplus places. As for Starcraft, anyplace with a giant tin spaceship on the roof is bound to be good :>) Glen 0/0 If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if not now, when? -- Pirkei Avot From sloboyko at yahoo.com Wed Jun 19 22:27:07 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: TV Typewriter II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020620032707.46706.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> I built one of these when I was 15. It didn't work when I finished it. I sent it to SWTPC for repair. DON LANCASTER himeself fixed it, and sent me a note thatI should get a better soldering iron (a solder bridge and some _horrible, evil_ Molex soldercons (the worst sockets ever made) were responsible for the problems. In any event, I would go down the timing chain; if the 60 Hz is not at some decent level for (the 555's?), you've got problems. Do you have the (unijunction transistors?) in correctly - maybe a case difference between TO-92 and "the other ones, I forget" made of metal?. I have seen a surprising number of bad/mismarked 1n914/4148 diodes surplus. Are the caps and resistors definitely the right values. The R and C values are all critical around here, and I've seen mismarked caps. Hopefully, you have at least a scope. Funny story: my grandfather, who never graduated the 8th grade, a machinist, helped - that is, made - all the cases for my projects out of wood (so much for FCC part B). We were working on his dining room table with the TVT and a modified 9" TV set (which HE had repaired(!). A friend of his, a senior engineer at Zenith, came unpectedly to visit and his eyes just about fell out of his head. "We've got some stuff like that at Zenith - but they won't even let me into that lab, and I've only seen it through a window!!". __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From mbg at TheWorld.com Wed Jun 19 22:35:43 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: A VAX 6610 is rolling toward my garage ... References: <20020619211737.64508.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200206200335.XAA2390494@shell.TheWorld.com> >> No kidding. DEC FS had this hand-held terminal that was >> powered off of a jack next to the DB-25. I've seen pictures >> but never seen one in use. >I have a thingie here called a DEC-VT12, from 1982. >It's a Termiflex with two-line LED alphanumeric display, >about 2.5x the size of a cellphone. >I can put up a picture for those interested. And I have something that sounds a lot like it, called the TC200, with the Digital brand on it. Check out the picture on my web page... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From allain at panix.com Wed Jun 19 22:36:45 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: LSI ADM3A EBAY References: <004501c216ce$1d1fe9e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <02Jun18.101200edt.119046@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> <3D111E77.1050903@tiac.net> Message-ID: <007f01c2180b$b3c90dc0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> From: Bob Shannon > I've got a 'working' ADM-3A on the East Coast, its a > blue-colored one if that matters. You have a few eMails from me to answer first, Bob. John A. From mbg at TheWorld.com Wed Jun 19 22:41:01 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: Making RT-11 bootable Message-ID: <200206200341.XAA2335480@shell.TheWorld.com> >OK, I now have a bootable RX-50. My question is what is the difference >between DL.SYS and DLX.SYS drivers? Is the non-x version unibus and the >with-x version qbus or something? The dd.SYS form of the driver is for the SB (formerly SJ) and FB monitors (kernel, for unix weenies :-) The ddX.SYS form of the driver is for the XM (XM, ZM, ZB) monitor(s). These last monitors are the ones which have directives for controlling extended memory (anything beyond 64kb) and the drivers know how to get data from, and put data to, user buffers in extended memory. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From louiss at gate.net Wed Jun 19 23:09:16 2002 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:31 2005 Subject: TV Typewriter II In-Reply-To: <20020620032707.46706.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: This is helpful information. I am assuming that this thing formerly worked, and that everything was installed correctly. However, it is likely that one or more components have failed, or at least gone out of spec. If the values are critical, as you say, I may have to remove these parts and check them individually. Thanks, Louis On Wed, 19 Jun 2002 20:27:07 -0700 (PDT), Loboyko Steve wrote: #I built one of these when I was 15. It didn't work #when I finished it. I sent it to SWTPC for repair. DON #LANCASTER himeself fixed it, and sent me a note thatI #should get a better soldering iron (a solder bridge #and some _horrible, evil_ Molex soldercons (the worst #sockets ever made) were responsible for the problems. # #In any event, I would go down the timing chain; if the #60 Hz is not at some decent level for (the 555's?), #you've got problems. Do you have the (unijunction #transistors?) in correctly - maybe a case difference #between TO-92 and "the other ones, I forget" made of #metal?. I have seen a surprising number of #bad/mismarked 1n914/4148 diodes surplus. Are the caps #and resistors definitely the right values. The R and C #values are all critical around here, and I've seen #mismarked caps. Hopefully, you have at least a scope. # #Funny story: my grandfather, who never graduated the #8th grade, a machinist, helped - that is, made - all #the cases for my projects out of wood (so much for FCC #part B). We were working on his dining room table with #the TVT and a modified 9" TV set (which HE had #repaired(!). A friend of his, a senior engineer at #Zenith, came unpectedly to visit and his eyes just #about fell out of his head. "We've got some stuff like #that at Zenith - but they won't even let me into that #lab, and I've only seen it through a window!!". # # #__________________________________________________ #Do You Yahoo!? #Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup #http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From Arno_1983 at gmx.de Thu Jun 20 00:35:53 2002 From: Arno_1983 at gmx.de (Arno Kletzander) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: Document copy protection Message-ID: <28983.1024551353@www18.gmx.net> Antonio Carlini wrote: >>I actually tried that with one local shop, and they flat out said no. Its >>quite possible that the Philips/Magnavox service docs can't be printed >>(via normal means, anyway), but only viewed from those cdroms. If they can >>be printed, its possible that the service shop has a limit as to how many >>pages they can print (or even view) from those discs. > >PDF files can be marked to prevent printing, although >I think it's down to the software to honour this. > >Limiting the number of viewings seems a little >daft - I doubt that anyone does this! > >Antonio Even then there should be a way IMO. There are a few programmes that allow you to take a "screen shot", which means they produce a (.bmp .jpg...whatever) file that shows what you had on your screen when you press some key. The one I have was part of the Corel family...unfortunately, I haven't used it a long time and I'm not home now to check its name. There could also be something like this out as freeware, but I'm not sure on this. Even if it's a bit complicated, this would at least allow you to print the contents of those manuals the original viewer doesn't want you to. Legality of such operations is another problem; I do not want to encourage illegal actions. But I also don't want to see perfectly repairable appliances go to the dumpster. Choose your way... Arno Kletzander Arno_1983@gmx.de -- GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet. http://www.gmx.net From tarsi at binhost.com Tue Jun 18 01:04:17 2002 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: WTB: HP HIL Keybrd In-Reply-To: <28983.1024551353@www18.gmx.net> References: <28983.1024551353@www18.gmx.net> Message-ID: <0206180104170F.00493@simon> Anyone got a spare HP HIL keyboard to get rid of? (with cable) Contact me offlist, please. tarsi@binhost.com Thanks, Tarsi 210 From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Thu Jun 20 02:54:27 2002 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: Computers in Public Xport References: Message-ID: <050601c2182f$b48e0110$0101a8c0@athlon> > > Or are you a Charles Atlas lookalike? ( I guess that dates me!) TD sed-- > Who? He was a male "superbod" who advertised his 'look like me in just three weeks' (or was it years?) phys ed courses and paraphanalia etc in 'manly' reading material in the fifties- e.g. Popular Mechanics , etc. DaveB From bill at timeguy.com Wed Jun 19 13:14:28 2002 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: 9-track round-reel tapes available Message-ID: <20020619131308.W8064-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> My company is cleaning house and throwing away a bunch of 9-track round-reel mainframe tapes. If anyone can use some and is willing to pay shipping (or pick them up in Nebraska) I will grab some. Let me know by private e-mail please. From m_thompson at ids.net Wed Jun 19 10:48:14 2002 From: m_thompson at ids.net (Michael Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: RA82 belt tension adjustment, how? Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020619114814.00818c60@155.212.1.107> Replacing the starting capacitors in the RA81 disk fixed the spinup problem. They are a cylinder about 2" in diameter and 4" long and located behind and below the HDA. They take about 10 minutes to replace. Michael Thompson E-Mail: M_Thompson@IDS.net From fran at hexamon.org Wed Jun 19 17:14:01 2002 From: fran at hexamon.org (Francis Bell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: how to preserve old RL01 pack data? Message-ID: <3D110229.40902@hexamon.org> I have some old DEC RL01 packs with PDP-11 diagnostic utilities - these are DEC originals: AX-E380L-MC DLDP+DIAG#1 + DECX A1 SYSTEM A AX-E441L-MC CZZLBLO DLDP+DIAG #2 + CPUTST + DECX B1 SYS B They won't last forever, and I don't have any spare media to back them up to, so I'd like to archive this software onto my PC (for posterity - or perhaps to make available to other hobbyists for use in the emulator, though I'm not sure whether the Mentec license would cover this - it does say "and associated utilities" however). The question is, how can I get a copy of a pack as a binary image onto the PC ? (to load in simh for example ?) I have a working serial port, and I can run kermit OK on RT-11. However, even if RT-11 will read the pack in DL1: (and I'm not even sure of that), how can I persuade kermit to take a copy of DL1: as an image ? I haven't found a way of doing this. Simply doing "get DL1:" doesn't seem to work. Is there any kermit-like software out there that has a PC client and can do a disk image transfer ? Thanks in advance, F From fdebros at verizon.net Wed Jun 19 17:13:55 2002 From: fdebros at verizon.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: VS4000/60 and VRE01 problems In-Reply-To: <20020618161900.GG6613@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <002101c217de$9aac0ae0$6501a8c0@fred> Silly: I can make a connector in no time flat....or send u one....but they only fit the 15 pin plug on the vs3100 console! Let me know. U get the vre01 going in graphics....in exchange. I can only do b/w on the vs3100 console in netbsd. Or decterm in vms, crude. I can do 1000x800 in X on a matrox/millennium card but I have some small problems and it is not perfect enough for me fred -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bill Bradford Sent: Tuesday, 18 June, 2002 12.19 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: VS4000/60 and VRE01 problems On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 11:42:35AM -0400, Fred deBros wrote: > I suspect the framebuffer is not compatible. > I have an xf86config file that works graphics on the vre01 > But on the 3100/76 and on the vt1200 the vre01 works in b/w and with > the on-board framebuffer. Does the 4000/60 have similar output???? I > should go ck myself as I have one of those... It does, but I gave my cable for that to Doc. 8-( Doc? Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Thu Jun 20 08:49:03 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: Making RT-11 bootable References: Message-ID: <3D11DD4E.FF3AD0C4@compsys.to> >Pat Finnegan wrote: > OK, I now have a bootable RX-50. My question is what is the difference > between DL.SYS and DLX.SYS drivers? Is the non-x version unibus and the > with-x version qbus or something? Jerome Fine replies: Two aspects of your question indicate you are a newbie RT-11 user: (a) You don't specify what you are booting on the RX50 - probably because you don't know - let alone which hardware type of computer is being used (b) You don't know the difference between mapped (e.g. RT11XM) and unmapped (e.g. RT11FB) monitors (equivalent to the kernel in UNIX according to Megan Gentry) in RT-11, let alone the details of how RT-11 handles the Qbus and Unibus versions of the hardware. Then, there is the difference with the PRO380 in that it uses a CTIbus (if I remember the name correctly), so additional device drivers are required to run with the PRO380 since the standard device drivers which work with the Qbus and Unibus will not function at all in the PRO380 environment. If your RX50 floppy was booting a Qbus (or Unibus) system, and you were running RT11XM, then add the following three files: PIX.SYS DZX.SYS DWX.SYS Then execute the command: COPY/BOOT:DZ DU0:RT11XM.SYS DU0: The RX50 floppy should then be able to boot on the PRO380. It will be UNABLE to boot using the DUX.SYS device driver on a Qbus (or Unibus) system using the RX50 floppy drive. If you also want to be able to boot RT11FB, then also add PI.SYS DZ.SYS DW.SYS If it works on the PRO380, please let us know. Do you also have a hard drive on the PRO380? It will use the DW(X).SYS device driver. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Thu Jun 20 09:17:11 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: how to preserve old RL01 pack data? References: <3D110229.40902@hexamon.org> Message-ID: <3D11E3E7.5A911A21@compsys.to> >Francis Bell wrote: > I have some old DEC RL01 packs with PDP-11 > diagnostic utilities - these are DEC originals: > > AX-E380L-MC DLDP+DIAG#1 + DECX A1 SYSTEM A > AX-E441L-MC CZZLBLO DLDP+DIAG #2 + CPUTST + DECX B1 SYS B > > They won't last forever, and I don't have any spare media > to back them up to, so I'd like to archive this software onto > my PC (for posterity - or perhaps to make available > to other hobbyists for use in the emulator, though I'm not > sure whether the Mentec license would cover this - it does say > "and associated utilities" however). > > The question is, how can I get a copy of a pack as a > binary image onto the PC ? (to load in simh for example ?) > I have a working serial port, and I can run kermit OK on RT-11. However, > even if RT-11 will read the pack in DL1: (and I'm not > even sure of that), how can I persuade kermit > to take a copy of DL1: as an image ? I haven't found > a way of doing this. Simply doing "get DL1:" > doesn't seem to work. > > Is there any kermit-like software out there that has > a PC client and can do a disk image transfer ? > > Thanks in advance, Jerome Fine replies: THANK YOU!! I doubt that Mentec has any jurisdiction over these RL01 media since they seem to be the DEC XXDP diagnostics packs. The XXDP programs don't seem to be covered by the Mentec license since the are NOT a layered product under any of the operating systems specified. Since you run RT-11, if you copy the complete pack as a file to another RL01 pack, that should do the trick for Kermit. Depending on which version of RT-11 you are using, that will be either easy or very easy, the latter being for V5.0x versions of RT-11. The first thing you need to do is to find out how many of the 10,125 blocks are actually being used on the packs and set up a file of that size. The command: DUMP/TERM DL1:/START:1234. should allow you to find out where the XXDP files stop even if you don't understand the file structure. Just look for all zeros or a FORMAT pattern being repeated to the end of the media. At that point (under V5.0x versions), create a file of the needed size and MOUNT the file as a device. Then simply do a: COPY/DEVICE DL1: LD0: Since there is no point in sending all 10,125 blocks via Kermit, that will also save a bit of time. If you need more help, please ask. I always follow the above procedure when saving any media under RT-11 since there is no point in including blocks at the end of the media which don't have any files - or if they do have files, there is no actual data - especially if the blocks are all zeros. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Thu Jun 20 09:27:53 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: Acoustic delay line?? Message-ID: I've never seen one and couldn't find a clear picture on the web anywhere. Is this an acoustic delay line? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=887259145 From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 20 09:30:37 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: Network card for LaserJet In-Reply-To: <004a01c213c7$1bed4770$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <20020620143038.6740.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Curt Vendel wrote: > John.... > > Oh yeah, tons and tons of the DB9 to DB25 connectors using the flat > silk type cablings (light blue and black) or standard RJ45.... I don't > think the cross over cables for CAT5 would apply like a null-modem cable > though, you'd need to check the wiring in the hoods.... While you would not want to use a CAT5 crossover cable in one of these serial dongles, what you _can_ do, at least with various wiring schemes in common use, like Cisco's, is swap *regular* CAT5 (or CAT3*) cable for the flat light-blue or black cables - *That's* how you get straight through or null-modem - the two types of cables are wired inverted from each other (1-1, 2-2, etc. vs 1-8, 2-7, etc.) I do this all the time with Cisco adapters. -ethan * I have a box of CAT3 cables that were once used for patches in an old network closet at a former job. We also used them for "phone cords" for our Cisco IP phones - there's some toys I'd like to play with at home - IP Telephony __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From emu at ecubics.com Thu Jun 20 10:21:24 2002 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: 9-track round-reel tapes available References: <20020619131308.W8064-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <3D11F2F4.BD76711F@ecubics.com> Bill Richman wrote: > > My company is cleaning house and throwing away a bunch of 9-track > round-reel mainframe tapes. If anyone can use some and is willing to pay > shipping (or pick them up in Nebraska) I will grab some. Let me know by > private e-mail please. Manufacturer & model ? From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Jun 20 10:20:44 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] WTD: Datasheets for old Sierra modem ICs In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020610235437.00ac0c50@mail.zipcon.net> References: <005f01c210cd$4ab04000$bda6f13e@phoenix> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020620111209.02cb1ea8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Geoff Reed may have mentioned these words: [snip] >http://www.netcomponents.com/Do a search for scarce chips at many brokers >at once! I signed up for this - *almost* nowhere do they tell you that the service is $45.00 per month, billable quarterly! (It's way down deep in their website -- they don't mention it in the membership confirmation letter or anything...) I (of course) promptly cancelled the service, but it still cost me $22 USD just for one search... :-( If I do come across any WD1773's, they'll be damn expensive... :-( Just thought y'all'd like to know... Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Thu Jun 20 10:44:02 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: A VAX 6610 is rolling toward my garage ... References: <20020619211737.64508.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> <3D10FC91.726F1C72@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <3D11F842.61F4D44B@Vishay.com> Emanuel, if you are not limited to the Telnet protocol, but also willing to accept others, then try to get a DSSI disk or a HSC (hierarchical/"high-speed" storage controller between CI cluster interconnect and SDI serial disk interface, originally): these allow SET HOST/DUP and SET HOST/HSC, respectively, from a VMS node. These fit the 10-year rule: VMS always was cool! ;-) emanuel stiebler wrote: > > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > The only thing cooler than a serial port on a mass-storage device > > is talking to it on a terminal that fits in your pocket! > > I think, if you can telnet in a mass-storage device, that's cool ;-) -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Jun 20 10:52:42 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: Bulk Tape Eraser In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.2.32.20020618091150.01a7ce74@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <20020620175242.A173210@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Tue, Jun 18, 2002 at 11:26:45PM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > > Wouldn't switching it on and off be many times more > > efficient at producing a time-varying field? :-) . > Isn't that one reason that those erasers run on AC? AC makes a field that alternates its direction with constant peeks. Moving the degauser away while it is running makes a field with degreasing peeks. This is needed to actually degaus the media. Switching the degauser off when it is near the media leaves the media in a gaused state, possibly gaused in a way that a drive gets confused or can't reformat the media. You need the alternating and degreasing field to bring the hysteresis down to zero. If you think of a magnetic hysteresis curve, you need a field that produces a hysteresis curve that looks like a spiral. I.e. alternating with degreasing amplitude. You can see this well when a monitor is degaused. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Jun 20 11:00:29 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: Computers in Public Xport In-Reply-To: <050601c2182f$b48e0110$0101a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <3D11B5CD.23034.6D30DB5@localhost> He also regularly got sand kicked in his face while "beach-bunnies" looked on disdainfully until he developed his physique. And then they clustered around him admiringly and bullies slunk away. BB-guns and Ryder bicycles were also back-cover features on most comic-books as well. Lawrence > > > > Or are you a Charles Atlas lookalike? ( I guess that dates me!) > TD sed-- > > Who? > > He was a male "superbod" who advertised his 'look like me in just three > weeks' (or was it years?) phys ed courses and paraphanalia etc in 'manly' > reading material in the fifties- e.g. Popular Mechanics , etc. > > DaveB > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From ghldbrd at ccp.com Thu Jun 20 11:07:37 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: Acoustic delay line?? References: Message-ID: <3D11FDC9.375B76D1@ccp.com> Bill Sudbrink wrote: > > I've never seen one and couldn't find a clear picture > on the web anywhere. Is this an acoustic delay line? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=887259145 I'd guess that it is either a TWT, or maybe an X-ray tube of some sort. Definitely NOT a delay line. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Thu Jun 20 11:10:33 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! References: Message-ID: <3D11FE79.761C539E@Vishay.com> Yes! About SCART connectors, ... Tony Duell wrote: > > 1) It doesn't make particularly good contact with the socket. Often it > comes half-out and you lose video or something Even while plugging one in, I always end up with an uncertain feeling about the connector being seated properly. > 2) It is in no sense a constant-impedance connector. I am a great > believer in sending video signals along 75 ohm cable fitted with 75 ohm > connectors, and terminating the input with 75 ohms (any other impedance > would do as well, provided it's constant, and all parts have the same > characteristic impedance). SCART would seem to be a source of signal > reflections And it does not provide any shields between the audio and video signals, so I'd expect cross-talk. Although they are spaced pretty far apart, the relatively large spades might make nice coupling capacitors... > 3) Have yuo ever tried to wire one of those infernal plugs? Particularly > if you're using all the pins? What sort of cable do use to fit into the strain relief when using all pins? - The cable should also have different runs for video (impedance matched), audio (low capacity), and data lines (just well shielded), all with separate grounds... - Once I find a suitable cable, I might try, but I think soldering will be the easier part. (I did make my own Ethernet transceiver cables years ago. AUI provides very limited space in the connector shell, too.) I think SCART intended to be a non-proprietary bus for complete video/HiFi systems, easy to install for people who don't know the different between an input and output jack/socket: I have heard people talk about the "line input" of a CD player, for example. Well, you can put a connector in there, yeah! Whenever possible, I also prefer more specific connectors (and, yes, BNC for video and RCA or even XLR for audio would certainly do well), and I usually have no trouble telling from where to where a cable needs to go, so SCART doesn't really seem to be made for me. Many cheap TV sets and satellite receivers have SCART connectors around here, but my A/V receiver (Onkyo TX-DS939, for those familiar with them) has none at all. It prefers gold-plated RCA and other connectors, obviously for a good reason. -- Andreas Freiherr Vishay Semiconductor GmbH, Heilbronn, Germany http://www.vishay.com From rickb at bensene.com Thu Jun 20 11:36:41 2002 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: Acoustic delay line?? In-Reply-To: <3D11FDC9.375B76D1@ccp.com> Message-ID: <000001c21878$a86a0de0$030aa8c0@bensene.com> This could be a mercury delay line. Remington Rand did use mercury delay lines in some of their early computers. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Gary Hildebrand > Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 9:08 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Acoustic delay line?? > > > Bill Sudbrink wrote: > > > > I've never seen one and couldn't find a clear picture > > on the web anywhere. Is this an acoustic delay line? > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=887259145 > > I'd guess that it is either a TWT, or maybe an X-ray tube of > some sort. > Definitely NOT a delay line. > > Gary Hildebrand > St. Joseph, MO > From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Jun 20 11:40:36 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: Acoustic delay line?? Message-ID: <200206201640.JAA19524@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I'm going to make a wild guess. This was a flash tube used to sychronize a neon light computer. Anyway, I don't think it is a delay line. Dwight >From: "Gary Hildebrand" > >Bill Sudbrink wrote: >> >> I've never seen one and couldn't find a clear picture >> on the web anywhere. Is this an acoustic delay line? >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=887259145 > >I'd guess that it is either a TWT, or maybe an X-ray tube of some sort. >Definitely NOT a delay line. > >Gary Hildebrand >St. Joseph, MO > From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 20 11:51:54 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: Document copy protection In-Reply-To: <28983.1024551353@www18.gmx.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Arno Kletzander wrote: > Even if it's a bit complicated, this would at least allow you to print > the contents of those manuals the original viewer doesn't want you to. > Legality of such operations is another problem; I do not want to > encourage illegal actions. But I also don't want to see perfectly > repairable appliances go to the dumpster. Choose your way... As long as the viewer program can be loaded and run on your computer, it can be "debugged". That's what amazes me about all this silly copy protection and rights management nonsense. Ultimately, in order for what they are selling to be a product that humans will want, it has to somehow come out of our computer and go into our sense organs. As long as that data goes into the computer, it can be liberated. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 20 11:53:57 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: Computers in Public Xport In-Reply-To: <3D11B5CD.23034.6D30DB5@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > He also regularly got sand kicked in his face while "beach-bunnies" looked > on disdainfully until he developed his physique. And then they clustered > around him admiringly and bullies slunk away. BB-guns and Ryder bicycles > were also back-cover features on most comic-books as well. I always did want to learn how to rip a phone book in half with my bare hands but never got around to ordering. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 20 11:59:48 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: Computers in Public Xport In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020620165948.36355.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > He also regularly got sand kicked in his face... > > I always did want to learn how to rip a phone book in half with my bare > hands but never got around to ordering. It's a physics trick - you hold the phone book just right, spine down, and slide the cover facing you down just a little, and you are only tearing a few pages at a time. With a little practice, it looks convincing. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From dittman at dittman.net Thu Jun 20 12:00:07 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: A VAX 6610 is rolling toward my garage ... In-Reply-To: <3D11F842.61F4D44B@Vishay.com> from "Andreas Freiherr" at Jun 20, 2002 05:44:02 PM Message-ID: <200206201700.g5KH07301249@narnia.int.dittman.net> > if you are not limited to the Telnet protocol, but also willing to > accept others, then try to get a DSSI disk or a HSC > (hierarchical/"high-speed" storage controller between CI cluster > interconnect and SDI serial disk interface, originally): these allow SET > HOST/DUP and SET HOST/HSC, respectively, from a VMS node. These fit the > 10-year rule: VMS always was cool! ;-) Don't forget the HSJs allow SET HOST/DUP and the HSZs allow SET HOST/SCSI. The HSDs also allow SET HOST/DUP. I'm not sure about the HSGs and HSVs. The HSx controllers also have a serial port, so you can connect them ports to a terminal server and telnet to the ports that way. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Jun 20 12:09:38 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: Acoustic delay line?? Message-ID: <200206201709.KAA19552@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Rick Bensene" > >This could be a mercury delay line. Remington Rand did use mercury >delay lines in >some of their early computers. > Hi Rich A mercury line would have a hose with mercury in it ( or metal tubing ) and tranducers at each end. I've seen several of these and this is not one. I suspect that it is some kind of lamp or heater. For what, I don't know. Dwight From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jun 20 12:12:29 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: Computers in Public Xport In-Reply-To: <20020620165948.36355.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > I always did want to learn how to rip a phone book in half with my bare > hands but never got around to ordering. Roll it up, with the binding in and pages out. When rolled, the page edges will be offset enough that you can start tearing pages a few at a time, until the tear is started on all pages. then let it unroll and finish the tear. From rickb at bensene.com Thu Jun 20 12:15:15 2002 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: Acoustic delay line?? In-Reply-To: <200206201709.KAA19552@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <000201c2187e$0b48c6e0$030aa8c0@bensene.com> The thin metal tube inside the glass envelope could contain a column of mercury. Transducers could be the elements at each end of the thin metal tube. My only concern is that the connections at the end of the tube (there's not enough detail to tell) may not have enough connections to provide that needed for the transducers. Rick > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Dwight K. Elvey > Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 10:10 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Acoustic delay line?? > > > >From: "Rick Bensene" > > > >This could be a mercury delay line. Remington Rand did use mercury > >delay lines in some of their early computers. > > > > Hi Rich > A mercury line would have a hose with mercury > in it ( or metal tubing ) and tranducers at each end. > I've seen several of these and this is not one. > I suspect that it is some kind of lamp or heater. > For what, I don't know. > Dwight > > From dave at naffnet.org.uk Thu Jun 20 12:16:31 2002 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: Computers in Public Xport References: <20020620165948.36355.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D120DEF.1198D799@naffnet.org.uk> Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > > > He also regularly got sand kicked in his face... > > > > I always did want to learn how to rip a phone book in half with my bare > > hands but never got around to ordering. > > It's a physics trick - you hold the phone book just right, spine down, > and slide the cover facing you down just a little, and you are only > tearing a few pages at a time. > > With a little practice, it looks convincing. > > -ethan > And even easier if you thoroughly dry out the phone book in the oven first (an electric oven is best - no water vapour by-products of combustion). Just a little further trickery to add to the problem, Dave. From passerm at umkc.edu Thu Jun 20 12:21:34 2002 From: passerm at umkc.edu (Michael Passer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: Document copy protection References: Message-ID: <004401c2187e$eeaf5890$8e8fc186@kc.umkc.edu> At the risk of steering dangerously off-topic, I recommend reading the information available at http://trustedpc.org, a scary consortium of some very large players hard at work at turning the personal computer into an entertainment industry controlled home AV component. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 11:51 AM Subject: Re: Document copy protection > On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Arno Kletzander wrote: > > > Even if it's a bit complicated, this would at least allow you to print > > the contents of those manuals the original viewer doesn't want you to. > > Legality of such operations is another problem; I do not want to > > encourage illegal actions. But I also don't want to see perfectly > > repairable appliances go to the dumpster. Choose your way... > > As long as the viewer program can be loaded and run on your computer, it > can be "debugged". > > That's what amazes me about all this silly copy protection and rights > management nonsense. Ultimately, in order for what they are selling to be > a product that humans will want, it has to somehow come out of our > computer and go into our sense organs. As long as that data goes into the > computer, it can be liberated. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Jun 20 12:21:49 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: OT: Ripping Phone Books (was RE: Computers in Public Xport) Message-ID: Ripping a phone book in half is really quite easy if you know the trick. Just break the spine (it helps if the humidity is low, so the paper is less flexible) first. Once the pages are torn at the spine, you can rip them the rest of the way. -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 11:54 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Computers in Public Xport I always did want to learn how to rip a phone book in half with my bare hands but never got around to ordering. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Jun 20 12:28:36 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: Computers in Public Xport In-Reply-To: References: <3D11B5CD.23034.6D30DB5@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020620132743.02387e90@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Sellam Ismail may have mentioned these words: >On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > He also regularly got sand kicked in his face while "beach-bunnies" looked > > on disdainfully until he developed his physique. And then they clustered > > around him admiringly and bullies slunk away. BB-guns and Ryder bicycles > > were also back-cover features on most comic-books as well. > >I always did want to learn how to rip a phone book in half with my bare >hands but never got around to ordering. Easy: Move to a really, *really* small town. :-) -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From thompson at new.rr.com Thu Jun 20 12:30:52 2002 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: A VAX 6610 is rolling toward my garage ... In-Reply-To: <200206201700.g5KH07301249@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > Don't forget the HSJs allow SET HOST/DUP and the HSZs allow > SET HOST/SCSI. The HSDs also allow SET HOST/DUP. I'm not > sure about the HSGs and HSVs. HSG's allow SET HOST /SCSI (I admit I have not tried it in VMS, but HSZ's and HSG's use the same /usr/lbin/hsxterm utility which is the Tru64 unix equivalent of SET HOST /SCSI). You can do the equivalent of SET HOST /DUP in ULTRIX (and I believe in Tru OSF 64) with the dupterm utility. You need dup support compiled into your kernel. > The HSx controllers also have a serial port, so you can > connect them ports to a terminal server and telnet to > the ports that way. > -- From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Jun 20 13:11:33 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: New things Message-ID: Well, today I managed to go out to Univ Salvage and get myself two things that look 'fun to play with' RS/6000 7013-580 1-9 Video 2-1 Ethernet 4-4 SCSI? adaptor 128MB RAM (16x8M 80ns SIMMS on two cards) FDD CDROM (no hard drives) The system had its 'doors off' and its keys 'in the ignition' (yay!). Data Systems Design Model 880-D8. It has a DS Shugart 8" floppy drive in it (which I intend to use to fix my Altos 8000) and a SA-1000 interface 8" hard disk inside (which I intend to use to fix my TeleVideo TS-816, if possible. Quite the finds for $10, eh? Now if I could get myself to concentrate on this paper I have to write.. -- Pat From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jun 20 14:34:22 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: HP 9825B In-Reply-To: <686A090EA54ED311AD1A0008C79A7048027121F9@EAMBGNT700> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020620143422.443f66fe@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Dar?o, I don't have Christian's address but I have quite a bit of experience with the HP 9825s. What seems to be wrong with yours? FWIW the HP designated replacement for the 9825 is the HP 9826 with a HPL card or disk based HPL and the appropriate disk drive(s). However the 9826 is very different from the 9825 and conversion would must likely be a serious project. Joe At 08:45 AM 6/18/02 -0500, you wrote: >Hello Team >Excuse me, but the Christian Fandt e-mail address have not been available >could Somebody help me please???? >Thank you very much for your attention. > >Best Regards > >Dario Rodriguez. > > >================================================================================================== >Hello Christian Fandt, > >I hope you are ok.. > >My name is Dar?o Rodriguez and I work at Ericsson de Colombia Repair Center.I am in charge of equipment maintenance. >We have a equipment which is controlled by a Hewlett Packard calculator reference: HP 9825B that we looked at your web site http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/2000-08/0176.html >We will really appreciate you help us to know if is still available to buy this unit, because our calculator is not working very well now, and one new could be better to us,or if it is not available, maybe, could you please help us to know if this calculator is replaced by other one?, >In the past we tried to replace this one by a Computer interface, but It have not been possible, do you know where do we find information about this process?, > >Thank you very much for your attention, > >We will expect your comments about this matter, > > > > >Best Regards > >Dario Rodriguez. > > > >Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\Attach\HP9825B.htm" > From msspcva at yahoo.com Wed Jun 19 01:29:09 2002 From: msspcva at yahoo.com (Clayton Frank Helvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] HP C19 calculator - power requirements? Message-ID: <20020619062909.98697.qmail@web14610.mail.yahoo.com> Hello: Can someone tell me or point me towards a site with information on the power requirements for a HP C19 printing calculator? I've got one which I'd like to sell, but I'd like to see if it works or not first. It appears to be in decent shape, tho the carrying case is getting ratty. I see on the back it says "5V" and "1W", but the connector (I assume for a AC adapter) isn't labeled, and it has no power pack. Thanks in advance, Frank ===== = M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.= Clayton Frank Helvey, President Montvale Software Services, P. C. P.O. Box 840 Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840 Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva@yahoo.com ============================================================ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jun 20 14:37:32 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: how to preserve old RL01 pack data? In-Reply-To: from "Francis Bell" at Jun 19, 2002 11:14:01 PM Message-ID: <200206201937.g5KJbW227345@shell1.aracnet.com> > The question is, how can I get a copy of a pack as a > binary image onto the PC ? (to load in simh for example ?) I don't suppose you have access to a MicroVAX? I always do this under VMS, and then FTP the data over to a UNIX system. Unfortuantly I'm not sure how you can do this under RT-11, however, I'd guess that at a minimum you'd need a RL02 drive and pack to hold the image for transfer over the the PC. Zane From coredump at gifford.co.uk Thu Jun 20 14:45:43 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: Acoustic delay line?? References: Message-ID: <3D1230E7.CCC908A9@gifford.co.uk> Bill Sudbrink wrote: > I've never seen one and couldn't find a clear picture > on the web anywhere. Is this an acoustic delay line? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=887259145 I don't think it is. I have an acoustic delay line, and it's more like a coil of wire than a valve (vacuum tube). If anyone's interested, I can put up some digital photos of it. The gadget on eBay seems to have high-voltage electrodes at each end, similar to valve anode caps. Looks like there are glass-to-metal seals as well, so the interior is either evacuated or filled with a low-pressure gas. if it wasn't for the label, I'd say it was a Xenon flash/strobe tube. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jun 20 15:01:52 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: Document copy protection In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Arno Kletzander wrote: > > > Even if it's a bit complicated, this would at least allow you to print > > the contents of those manuals the original viewer doesn't want you to. > > Legality of such operations is another problem; I do not want to > > encourage illegal actions. But I also don't want to see perfectly > > repairable appliances go to the dumpster. Choose your way... > > As long as the viewer program can be loaded and run on your computer, it > can be "debugged". > > That's what amazes me about all this silly copy protection and rights > management nonsense. Ultimately, in order for what they are selling to be > a product that humans will want, it has to somehow come out of our > computer and go into our sense organs. As long as that data goes into the > computer, it can be liberated. Uh, yup. My little brother is working in the IT shop for a large company that's going bellyup. They run Lotus Notes for mail. Last month, th Corporate Office sent out a list of depatments & teams that were "eligible for early retirement." Odd thing - that one Notes email could be neither printed, exported, or forwarded. Even a reply, which appeared to quote the full text, left no quote in the "sent" folder. I'm not sure how much trouble his bosses went to cover their tracks, but the effect was rather impressive. The solution, though, was rather humble. The "Print Screen" key..... Doc From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Jun 20 15:16:41 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: Document copy protection In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020620151641.00a282c0@ubanproductions.com> At 03:01 PM 6/20/02 -0500, you wrote: >On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > >> On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Arno Kletzander wrote: >> >> > Even if it's a bit complicated, this would at least allow you to print >> > the contents of those manuals the original viewer doesn't want you to. >> > Legality of such operations is another problem; I do not want to >> > encourage illegal actions. But I also don't want to see perfectly >> > repairable appliances go to the dumpster. Choose your way... >> >> As long as the viewer program can be loaded and run on your computer, it >> can be "debugged". >> >> That's what amazes me about all this silly copy protection and rights >> management nonsense. Ultimately, in order for what they are selling to be >> a product that humans will want, it has to somehow come out of our >> computer and go into our sense organs. As long as that data goes into the >> computer, it can be liberated. > > Uh, yup. My little brother is working in the IT shop for a large >company that's going bellyup. They run Lotus Notes for mail. Last >month, th Corporate Office sent out a list of depatments & teams that >were "eligible for early retirement." Odd thing - that one Notes email >could be neither printed, exported, or forwarded. Even a reply, which >appeared to quote the full text, left no quote in the "sent" folder. >I'm not sure how much trouble his bosses went to cover their tracks, but >the effect was rather impressive. The solution, though, was rather >humble. > The "Print Screen" key..... What about a copy/paste operation? --tom From passerm at umkc.edu Thu Jun 20 15:22:02 2002 From: passerm at umkc.edu (Passer, Michael W.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: Document copy protection Message-ID: That can be disabled by the application. Disabling PrtSc would require hooking the OS on every machine running notes. But if somehow they were able to do even that, a program like VMware running notes would do a nice job of making a screen capture possible. Failing that, someone who wanted to get the word out could simply photograph the screen. > > What about a copy/paste operation? > > --tom From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jun 20 15:32:28 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: Computers in Public Xport In-Reply-To: <3D11B5CD.23034.6D30DB5@localhost> References: <3D11B5CD.23034.6D30DB5@localhost> Message-ID: > He also regularly got sand kicked in his face while "beach-bunnies" looked >on disdainfully until he developed his physique. And then they clustered >around him admiringly and bullies slunk away. BB-guns and Ryder bicycles >were also back-cover features on most comic-books as well. Along with the ads for the American Revolution figures and the X-ray eyeglasses and sea monkeys. Some of that stuff actually stayed on the back covers for quite a few years. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jun 20 15:40:43 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: Document copy protection In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20020620151641.00a282c0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > > > > Uh, yup. My little brother is working in the IT shop for a large > >company that's going bellyup. They run Lotus Notes for mail. Last > >month, th Corporate Office sent out a list of depatments & teams that > >were "eligible for early retirement." Odd thing - that one Notes email > >could be neither printed, exported, or forwarded. Even a reply, which > >appeared to quote the full text, left no quote in the "sent" folder. > >I'm not sure how much trouble his bosses went to cover their tracks, but > >the effect was rather impressive. The solution, though, was rather > >humble. > > The "Print Screen" key..... > > What about a copy/paste operation? The "Copy" item in the menus was grayed out, and Ctrl-C didn't work either. It was quite comprehensive. Doc From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 20 15:55:51 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: Computers in Public Xport In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > He also regularly got sand kicked in his face while "beach-bunnies" looked > >on disdainfully until he developed his physique. And then they clustered > >around him admiringly and bullies slunk away. BB-guns and Ryder bicycles > >were also back-cover features on most comic-books as well. > > Along with the ads for the American Revolution figures and > the X-ray eyeglasses and sea monkeys. Some of that stuff actually > stayed on the back covers for quite a few years. I bought the rather impressive looking set of "300 army men" or whatever the number was only to be severely disappointed when I got them to find they were cheap molded plastic bastards that were of majorly suckish quality compared to the more durable and softer plastic variety you could get from the grocery store toy section. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jun 20 16:04:35 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: Computers in Public Xport In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I bought the rather impressive looking set of "300 army men" or whatever >the number was only to be severely disappointed when I got them to find >they were cheap molded plastic bastards that were of majorly suckish >quality compared to the more durable and softer plastic variety you could >get from the grocery store toy section. I never ordered any of the stuff from the comic books but figured that it wouldn't be quite what was represented. A few years ago though while I was in Italy I did pick up a set of the green plastic soldiers. I hadn't seen any for a while and thought it'd be cool. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 20 16:35:12 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: Foxboro PCP-88 (PDP-8) Message-ID: According to this FAQ: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/dec-faq/pdp8-models/section-2.html ...the PDP-8 was OEM'd to a company called Foxboro Corporation that re-badged it as the PCP-88. Has anyone ever seen a PCP-88? I would assume it is functionally and physically equivalent to a DEC PDP-8? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Jun 20 16:33:22 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: New things In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > Data Systems Design Model 880-D8. It has a DS Shugart 8" floppy drive in > it (which I intend to use to fix my Altos 8000) and a SA-1000 interface 8" It has a Shugart model 513 drive. How likely am I to be able to replace a Shugart 801 drive with it? I know the 513 is DS and the 801 is SS, but that shouldn't matter, right? It seems to want to conflict with the other 513 drive in my ACS-8000, and also doesn't want to light up its 'selected' LED at boot when I jumper it to DS0. Is there some sort of jumpering on the drive I need to change to get it to work with the ACS-8000, do I need to rewire the cable, or it it easier than it seems? Does anyone have a pinout for the connector? Also, would it instead be possible to use a CDC Model Number (Equipment ID) BR8A2A, Part nymber 7574025 drive? I have the CDC drives and pinouts, but using them guarantees the drive won't fit properly into the case, and I'll have to at least solder on a card edge connector and adapt the power input connectors for the drive to match the computer's connectors. All in all, a fair amount of work either way I end up doing it... -- Pat From allain at panix.com Thu Jun 20 16:48:36 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: A VAX 6610 is rolling toward my garage ... References: <20020619211737.64508.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> <200206200335.XAA2390494@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <001601c218a4$3bb02d20$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> +AD4- the TC200, with the Digital brand on it. +AD4- Check out the picture on my web page... http://world.std.com/+AH4-mbg/tc200.jpg +AD4APg-I have a thingie here called a DEC-VT12, from 1982. +AD4APg-It's a Termiflex with two-line LED alphanumeric display, Here's the older DEC box (larger, no internal modem) in photo as promised. http://www.panix.com/+AH4-allain/vt12.jpg John A. From vaxzilla at jarai.org Thu Jun 20 16:59:32 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: A VAX 6610 is rolling toward my garage ... In-Reply-To: <001601c218a4$3bb02d20$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, John Allain wrote: > +AD4- the TC200, with the Digital brand on it. > +AD4- Check out the picture on my web page... > http://world.std.com/+AH4-mbg/tc200.jpg > > +AD4APg-I have a thingie here called a DEC-VT12, from 1982. > +AD4APg-It's a Termiflex with two-line LED alphanumeric display, > > Here's the older DEC box (larger, > no internal modem) in photo as promised. > http://www.panix.com/+AH4-allain/vt12.jpg > > John A. Okay, what is the root of the evil behind these strange `+AH4' `+AD4' and `+AD4Pg' special character escape sequences showing up in the above message? I think I smell Microsoft, and it smells bad. -brian. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Jun 20 16:59:49 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:32 2005 Subject: Computers in Public Xport Message-ID: <200206202159.OAA21359@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Sellam Ismail" > >On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >> > He also regularly got sand kicked in his face while "beach-bunnies" looked >> >on disdainfully until he developed his physique. And then they clustered >> >around him admiringly and bullies slunk away. BB-guns and Ryder bicycles >> >were also back-cover features on most comic-books as well. >> >> Along with the ads for the American Revolution figures and >> the X-ray eyeglasses and sea monkeys. Some of that stuff actually >> stayed on the back covers for quite a few years. > >I bought the rather impressive looking set of "300 army men" or whatever >the number was only to be severely disappointed when I got them to find >they were cheap molded plastic bastards that were of majorly suckish >quality compared to the more durable and softer plastic variety you could >get from the grocery store toy section. I was a slower learner. I sent of several times for the items on the backs of cereal boxes. I can still remember the propeller powered boat that when let loose would dive into the water and sink. The baking powder powered sub did work but was a lot smaller than the picture lead one to believe. Anyway, I liked the sea monkeys. Dwight From msell at ontimesupport.com Thu Jun 20 17:01:16 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: Foxboro PCP-88 (PDP-8) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020620165706.0355cef8@127.0.0.1> Just as a sidenote: Many distributed-control systems (DCS) in the process industry (refining, chemical, etc) were based on "off the shelf" DEC computers and the like. I threw away many MicroVax at a chemical plant I worked at a few years ago, before I had any interest in running them..... These systems were used by Ficher-Porter. I also worked on other 7400-series TTL based Foxboro "blend controllers" called "BlendTrols". Neat machines.... We also had a system called a "Mod Three" made by "Taylor" that was a huge 7400-series TTL based DCS. Very impressive for discrete logic. It ran 1/3 of the entire chemical plant and occupied a large control room. It was very tempermental..... - Matt At 02:35 PM 6/20/2002 -0700, you wrote: >According to this FAQ: > >http://www.faqs.org/faqs/dec-faq/pdp8-models/section-2.html > >...the PDP-8 was OEM'd to a company called Foxboro Corporation that >re-badged it as the PCP-88. > >Has anyone ever seen a PCP-88? I would assume it is functionally and >physically equivalent to a DEC PDP-8? > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020620/fa3b5878/attachment.html From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jun 20 17:06:47 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: A VAX 6610 is rolling toward my garage ... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, John Allain wrote: > >> +AD4- the TC200, with the Digital brand on it. >> +AD4- Check out the picture on my web page... >> http://world.std.com/+AH4-mbg/tc200.jpg >> >> +AD4APg-I have a thingie here called a DEC-VT12, from 1982. >> +AD4APg-It's a Termiflex with two-line LED alphanumeric display, >> >> Here's the older DEC box (larger, >> no internal modem) in photo as promised. >> http://www.panix.com/+AH4-allain/vt12.jpg >> >> John A. > >Okay, what is the root of the evil behind these strange `+AH4' `+AD4' >and `+AD4Pg' special character escape sequences showing up in the above >message? I think I smell Microsoft, and it smells bad. You got it....here's the info from his header: X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From allain at panix.com Thu Jun 20 17:15:49 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: A VAX 6610 is rolling toward my garage ... References: <20020619211737.64508.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> <200206200335.XAA2390494@shell.TheWorld.com> <001601c218a4$3bb02d20$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <00fc01c218a8$0906ad00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > the TC200, with the Digital brand on it. > Check out the picture on my web page... http://world.std.com/~mbg/tc200.jpg >>I have a thingie here called a DEC-VT12, from 1982. >>It's a Termiflex with two-line LED alphanumeric display, Here's the older DEC box (larger, no internal modem) in photo as promised. http://www.panix.com/~allain/vt12.jpg John A. (copy) (de-Microsofted for your viewing pleasure) From jrice at texoma.net Thu Jun 20 17:46:59 2002 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: Foxboro PCP-88 (PDP-8) References: Message-ID: <3D125B63.6080802@texoma.net> I have seen several. The Foxboro company makes process instrumentation and the PCP-88 were designed to run large process systems. I saw them used in a Pillsbury plant in the dough mixing lines and in several vegetable oil refineries. Sellam Ismail wrote: > According to this FAQ: > > http://www.faqs.org/faqs/dec-faq/pdp8-models/section-2.html > > ...the PDP-8 was OEM'd to a company called Foxboro Corporation that > re-badged it as the PCP-88. > > Has anyone ever seen a PCP-88? I would assume it is functionally and > physically equivalent to a DEC PDP-8? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > > From jrice at texoma.net Thu Jun 20 17:47:50 2002 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: Foxboro PCP-88 (PDP-8) References: Message-ID: <3D125B96.6020005@texoma.net> This was before I knew anyone collected minis and big iron, but I've scrapped several PCP-88's James Sellam Ismail wrote: > According to this FAQ: > > http://www.faqs.org/faqs/dec-faq/pdp8-models/section-2.html > > ...the PDP-8 was OEM'd to a company called Foxboro Corporation that > re-badged it as the PCP-88. > > Has anyone ever seen a PCP-88? I would assume it is functionally and > physically equivalent to a DEC PDP-8? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > > From vaxzilla at jarai.org Thu Jun 20 18:02:28 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: Foxboro PCP-88 (PDP-8) In-Reply-To: <3D125B96.6020005@texoma.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, James L. Rice wrote: > This was before I knew anyone collected minis and big iron, but I've > scrapped several PCP-88's Even given that this was done before you knew any better, thus the offense is somewhat forgivable, I still think you're a brave man to admit such a thing on this list. -brian. From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 20 18:09:10 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: Foxboro PCP-88 (PDP-8) In-Reply-To: <3D125B63.6080802@texoma.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, James L. Rice wrote: > I have seen several. The Foxboro company makes process instrumentation > and the PCP-88 were designed to run large process systems. I saw them > used in a Pillsbury plant in the dough mixing lines and in several > vegetable oil refineries. Were there any modifications, other than external facades perhaps, that differentiated the PCP-88 from the PDP-8? Or, as I'm guessing, were they electrically and electronically identical? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From at258 at osfn.org Thu Jun 20 19:56:29 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: Computers in Public Xport In-Reply-To: <3D11B5CD.23034.6D30DB5@localhost> Message-ID: I recall seeing a Charles Atlas website somewhere with a complete biography. On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > He also regularly got sand kicked in his face while "beach-bunnies" looked > on disdainfully until he developed his physique. And then they clustered > around him admiringly and bullies slunk away. BB-guns and Ryder bicycles > were also back-cover features on most comic-books as well. > > Lawrence > > > > > > > > > Or are you a Charles Atlas lookalike? ( I guess that dates me!) > > TD sed-- > > > Who? > > > > He was a male "superbod" who advertised his 'look like me in just three > > weeks' (or was it years?) phys ed courses and paraphanalia etc in 'manly' > > reading material in the fifties- e.g. Popular Mechanics , etc. > > > > DaveB > > > > > lgwalker@mts.net > bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Thu Jun 20 21:53:13 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: Computers in Public Xport Message-ID: <20020621025657.FFPW28631.imf28bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Sellam Ismail > I bought the rather impressive looking set of "300 army men" or whatever > the number was only to be severely disappointed when I got them to find > they were cheap molded plastic bastards that were of majorly suckish > quality compared to the more durable and softer plastic variety you could > get from the grocery store toy section. Jeez, Sellam, I thought I was the only one who got suckered on that deal! I got mine around '64 (I think they were $1.99), and man, was I crushed to see how little they resembled the drawing in the ad :<( Glen 0/0 If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if not now, when? -- Pirkei Avot From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Thu Jun 20 21:56:13 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: Computers in Public Xport Message-ID: <20020621025707.FFVF28631.imf28bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Merle K. Peirce > I recall seeing a Charles Atlas website somewhere with a complete biography. Try charlesatlas.com "Charles Atlas -- The World's Most Perfectly Developed Man" Glen 0/0 If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if not now, when? -- Pirkei Avot From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Thu Jun 20 22:00:02 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: how to preserve old RL01 pack data? References: <200206201937.g5KJbW227345@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3D1296B2.6E7654FB@compsys.to> >"Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > The question is, how can I get a copy of a pack as a > > binary image onto the PC ? (to load in simh for example ?) > I don't suppose you have access to a MicroVAX? I always do this under VMS, > and then FTP the data over to a UNIX system. Unfortuantly I'm not sure how > you can do this under RT-11, however, I'd guess that at a minimum you'd need > a RL02 drive and pack to hold the image for transfer over the the PC. Jerome Fine replies: Perhaps you missed my earlier reply. I would seriously doubt that the RL01, with the XXDP diagnostics software ????, would be full. As such, setting up a logical device on another RL01 with just the number of blocks to hold all the actual files on the XXDP RL01 pack would be sufficient. Then just us COPY/DEVICE DL1: LD0: The trick is in finding out how many actual blocks are needed. For that use: DUMP/TERM DL1:/START:1234. to find out where the data blocks stop. The RL01 on DL0: can the hold the logical file to be sent via Kermit to the PC for permanent archiving. In general, I always removed the repeated blocks at the end of a removable media when archiving a copy to a logical device. -- Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From jrice at texoma.net Thu Jun 20 22:05:27 2002 From: jrice at texoma.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: Foxboro PCP-88 (PDP-8) References: Message-ID: <3D1297F7.2010004@texoma.net> Actually I was only concerned with the D/A and A/D boards and termination points. Really didn't care about the controller itself. One that I really wish I had was a UDAC. The UDAC was marketed by Reliance Electric and was an 8 bit system that ran CP/M or a program like it.. The control program was written in an interactive basic. If you want a valve open that was on I/O point 197, you punched it "Let V197 = 1" and the valve opened. IT was really cool. I installed it in a Nabisco margarine (then a division of Standard Brands) in 1977. I remember the 8" floppies. It was finally given to a mechanic at the plant. His wife put it out in the pasture when they were divorced. I found it almost 9 years later. Way too late for a rescue. Sellam Ismail wrote: >On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, James L. Rice wrote: > > > >>I have seen several. The Foxboro company makes process instrumentation >>and the PCP-88 were designed to run large process systems. I saw them >>used in a Pillsbury plant in the dough mixing lines and in several >>vegetable oil refineries. >> >> > >Were there any modifications, other than external facades perhaps, that >differentiated the PCP-88 from the PDP-8? Or, as I'm guessing, were they >electrically and electronically identical? > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > > > > From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Jun 20 21:59:53 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: RS/6000 7013-580 troubles Message-ID: I know this is just under the 10yr rule, but it's pretty close, so please bear with me... OK, I've got the SCSI drives from the 55L mounted in the case, hooked up a terminal *and* keyboard, and this is what the LED display shows: 120 124 400 When 400 is displayed, the led next to the power switch goes off, the rs-232 port no longer has output voltage, and the machine just sits there. No playing with the reset button or smashing of keys on the keyboard or terminal will wake it up. Anyone have any ideas? The config is: 2-1 Ethernet card 1-9 Video card 4-4 Single-ended scsi-2 card 128MB RAM CDROM drive floppy drive 2x2GB hard drives (3.5" HH) which seemed to at least spin up in the 55L. -- Pat From jrice at texoma.net Thu Jun 20 22:09:54 2002 From: jrice at texoma.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: Foxboro PCP-88 (PDP-8) References: Message-ID: <3D129902.6090802@texoma.net> You know, I offered both a Vax 11/780 and a 11/34a to the list about five years ago. They were just being decommissioned and were also just off a DEC support and maint. contract. There were enough spare parts to build a second and most of a third 11/34a. No one wanted to come to Dallas and pickup and I neither had storage room or desire to collect DEC stuff, so both were dumpstered. I still don't care for big machines, but if I run across any, I'll still offer them to anyone who wants them. Brian Chase wrote: >On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, James L. Rice wrote: > > > >>This was before I knew anyone collected minis and big iron, but I've >>scrapped several PCP-88's >> >> > >Even given that this was done before you knew any better, thus the >offense is somewhat forgivable, I still think you're a brave man to >admit such a thing on this list. > >-brian. > > > > > From jrice at texoma.net Thu Jun 20 22:14:47 2002 From: jrice at texoma.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: Foxboro PCP-88 (PDP-8) References: Message-ID: <3D129A27.4050407@texoma.net> These were all decomissioned and scrapped in the 1986-1990 time frame. The last one I removed was in 1997. James Brian Chase wrote: >On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, James L. Rice wrote: > > > >>This was before I knew anyone collected minis and big iron, but I've >>scrapped several PCP-88's >> >> > >Even given that this was done before you knew any better, thus the >offense is somewhat forgivable, I still think you're a brave man to >admit such a thing on this list. > >-brian. > > > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 20 20:29:54 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: RF output DOES NOT equal Composite!!!! In-Reply-To: <3D11FE79.761C539E@Vishay.com> from "Andreas Freiherr" at Jun 20, 2 06:10:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3955 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020621/f248cf60/attachment.ksh From thompson at new.rr.com Thu Jun 20 22:42:14 2002 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: RS/6000 7013-580 troubles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Assuming those numbers are Built in Self Test numbers: > 120 - BIST starting CRC check on 8752 EPROM > 124 - BIST starting CRC check on the OCS area of NVRAM > 400 - ? From donm at cts.com Thu Jun 20 23:04:22 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: Foxboro PCP-88 (PDP-8) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > According to this FAQ: > > http://www.faqs.org/faqs/dec-faq/pdp8-models/section-2.html > > ...the PDP-8 was OEM'd to a company called Foxboro Corporation that > re-badged it as the PCP-88. If memory serves correctly, Foxboro was/is(?) in the process control and instrumentation business. Likely used as a part of such a system. - don > Has anyone ever seen a PCP-88? I would assume it is functionally and > physically equivalent to a DEC PDP-8? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 20 23:11:10 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: Computers in Public Xport In-Reply-To: <20020621025707.FFVF28631.imf28bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > > From: Merle K. Peirce > > > I recall seeing a Charles Atlas website somewhere with a complete > biography. > > Try charlesatlas.com > > "Charles Atlas -- The World's Most Perfectly Developed Man" To take this even more wildly off-topic, I thought that distinction went to Arnold Schwarzneggar who was in the Guiness Book of World Records in 1981 or thereabouts for having the most perfectly developed body. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 20 23:14:03 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: Foxboro PCP-88 (PDP-8) In-Reply-To: <3D129902.6090802@texoma.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, James Rice wrote: > You know, I offered both a Vax 11/780 and a 11/34a to the list about > five years ago. They were just being decommissioned and were also just > off a DEC support and maint. contract. There were enough spare parts to > build a second and most of a third 11/34a. No one wanted to come to > Dallas and pickup and I neither had storage room or desire to collect > DEC stuff, so both were dumpstered. I still don't care for big > machines, but if I run across any, I'll still offer them to anyone who > wants them. If it was 5 years ago then that's about the beginning of the list. I think back then, most of the people on the list were mainly interested in micros. I know I was. It took time for me to mature and realize the importance of ALL historic computer artifacts :) I remember a time when William Donzelli had a hard time rousing enough support to rescue some PDP-8a's. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jun 20 23:17:47 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: RS/6000 7013-580 troubles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > I know this is just under the 10yr rule, but it's pretty close, so please > bear with me... > > OK, I've got the SCSI drives from the 55L mounted in the case, hooked up a > terminal *and* keyboard, and this is what the LED display shows: > > 120 > 124 > 400 That's weird. There _aren't_ any 4xx self-test codes, as far as I know. > When 400 is displayed, the led next to the power switch goes off, the > rs-232 port no longer has output voltage, and the machine just sits there. > No playing with the reset button or smashing of keys on the keyboard or > terminal will wake it up. And the "400" code is still displayed? Unseat & reseat all the SIMMs on their cards, make sure the RAM boards' revision match the machine, and reseat all the MCA cards. Pull the video card and the ethernat card, unplug all the drives and the keyboard and start over. Nice box. I'll come get it if you're already tired of it. :) Doc From rickb at bensene.com Thu Jun 20 23:23:30 2002 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: Acoustic delay line?? In-Reply-To: <3D1230E7.CCC908A9@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <001a01c218db$65d02740$030aa8c0@bensene.com> Early acoustic delay lines also used thin tubes full of Mercury as the delay medium. These devices had higher storage capacity than the wire type of delay line, thus their use in computers. Wire delay lines were typically used in calculators and other devices that needed small amounts of circulating storage. Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Web Museum http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of John Honniball > Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 12:46 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Acoustic delay line?? > > > > Bill Sudbrink wrote: > > I've never seen one and couldn't find a clear picture > > on the web anywhere. Is this an acoustic delay line? > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=887259145 > > I don't think it is. I have an acoustic delay line, and it's > more like a coil of wire than a valve (vacuum tube). If > anyone's interested, I can put up some digital photos of it. > > The gadget on eBay seems to have high-voltage electrodes at > each end, similar to valve anode caps. Looks like there are > glass-to-metal seals as well, so the interior is either > evacuated or filled with a low-pressure gas. if it wasn't > for the label, I'd say it was a Xenon flash/strobe tube. > > -- > John Honniball > coredump@gifford.co.uk > From curt at atari-history.com Thu Jun 20 23:36:13 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: Warner/Amex "QUBE" Set-top box? References: <001a01c218db$65d02740$030aa8c0@bensene.com> Message-ID: <003501c218dd$2cc2fb10$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Anyone have one of these or have some photo's of it. It was one of the first attempts at Interactive TV. I need it for an article I'm writing, thanks. If anyone has one to sell, I'm also interested as well. Curt From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Jun 20 23:30:58 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: RS/6000 7013-580 troubles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Doc wrote: > On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > > > 400 > > That's weird. There _aren't_ any 4xx self-test codes, as far as I > know. I saw exactly two in the 4xx's that were memory-related. However, 400 isn't one. > > > When 400 is displayed, the led next to the power switch goes off, the > > rs-232 port no longer has output voltage, and the machine just sits there. > > No playing with the reset button or smashing of keys on the keyboard or > > terminal will wake it up. > > And the "400" code is still displayed? Yeah. The rest of the system seems to turn off, but the code '400' stays on the display. > Unseat & reseat all the SIMMs on their cards, make sure the RAM > boards' revision match the machine, and reseat all the MCA cards. Pull > the video card and the ethernat card, unplug all the drives and the > keyboard and start over. > Nice box. I'll come get it if you're already tired of it. :) Noo, I think I'll keep this one :). -- Pat > Doc From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Jun 21 00:25:33 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: RS/6000 7013-580 troubles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Doc wrote: > > > On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > > > > > 400 > > > > That's weird. There _aren't_ any 4xx self-test codes, as far as I > > know. > > And the "400" code is still displayed? > > Yeah. The rest of the system seems to turn off, but the code '400' stays > on the display. > > > Unseat & reseat all the SIMMs on their cards, make sure the RAM > > boards' revision match the machine, and reseat all the MCA cards. Pull > > the video card and the ethernat card, unplug all the drives and the > > keyboard and start over. OK, I've tried it with all cards removed, all memory removed, with and without the 1M simm on the motherboard, and without the keyboard or terminal plugged in. Every try has given me the same damn results. If I can't get this to work, I might try just using these boards in my 55L instead... What exactly is the boot sequence, and what is supposed to show up after 120 and 124 that the 400 is pre-empting? Also, there's an empty ZIF socket on the mother board next to the Power processor chips... what is that for exactly. Also, there's a pair of slots on the motherboard that 'look like' PCI slots (look to have identical keying and size, but I haven't bother trying to fit a card in yet to check. Any more ideas? Could it be a power supply or monitor rom problem? -- Pat From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 20 20:39:19 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: Document copy protection In-Reply-To: from "Passer, Michael W." at Jun 20, 2 03:22:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 925 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020621/8717d201/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 20 20:06:34 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: TV Typewriter II In-Reply-To: from "Louis Schulman" at Jun 19, 2 10:15:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3616 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020621/1bb1d484/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 20 19:36:12 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] HP C19 calculator - power requirements? In-Reply-To: <20020619062909.98697.qmail@web14610.mail.yahoo.com> from "Clayton Frank Helvey" at Jun 18, 2 11:29:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1702 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020621/5036d18d/attachment.ksh From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 21 03:37:49 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: Warner/Amex "QUBE" Set-top box? In-Reply-To: <003501c218dd$2cc2fb10$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <20020621083749.79708.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Curt Vendel wrote: > Anyone have one of these or have some photo's of it. It was one of the > first attempts at Interactive TV. I need it for an article I'm > writing, > thanks. If anyone has one to sell, I'm also interested as well. Wish I did. We _had_ QUBE when it was new. Big Fun. For those that don't know, it was an unassuming cable box, black, maybe 30cm x 30cm x 5cm, but the interesting part was this pod on the end of a 10m cable - it had 10 buttons down the left side, three across the bottom, and 5 on the right. The three at the bottom were momentary - they selected a filter bank in the box to give you a range of 10 channels (of which only one at a time could be depressed; it would pop up the previous selection). The columns were marked P, C and T for "Premium", "Community" and "Television". Among other things, I recall that P7 or P8 was for R-rated entertainment, and P10 was for Adult. The five buttons on the right, and the "Response" light at the top were the interactive part - with interactive programming of local origin (they had a full-blown TV studio as well as a cable franchise), the host could initiate a poll - the Response light meant that the voting period was open - or simply tell you to press "1" to have information about the current show/guest mailed to you with your bill. There was even a kids game show with Flippo the Clown that you could play along with at home. It was plagued with technical problems galore - the first month, they gave away the movies (there were only two pay movies, "A Star is Born", and "Raggedy Ann and Andy") because their billing system was messed up. Another game was to figure out how to defeat the box and watch free movies - they went through 5 generations or so before it got too hard for ordinary consumers to bother. The first one was the easiest - press down three or more black response buttons and change the column from C or T to P. The light would indicate the old column, but the filter bank would change internally, displaying the P channels. You could swap from 1 to 10 at will. The system never noticed you were in the premium rank. It got harder after that. I kinda miss it. We used to have great fun with the kids show, and it was good for cooking shows, too. It expanded to several cities in Ohio and Texas before Warner folded it. This was all well over 10 years ago, so the technology is quite on topic. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 21 03:48:26 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? In-Reply-To: <3CC77E9E.6510C759@compsys.to> Message-ID: <20020621084826.59093.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> What I would like to do is, with commodity hardware, not DEC hardware, digest a large stack of (distribution) floppies. I don't care if the solution is under Windoze or Linux. Either will work. I have a Teac 5.25" floppy working in my former main PeeCee that dual-boots to Slackware or Win98. I have TELEDISK, I have PUTR, I can probably have anything else if required. I did notice a 10-sector floppy format special-device under Linux. Wasn't sure if dd-ing from that device would work or not, especially with the single/dual-sided issue. Yes, I could probably do this on DEC hardware, but that would entail spending way too much time in the basement where the 8200 is and its console RX50s. If I do this on a PeeCee, I can be doing other things while the disks gronk (but BACKUP/PHYSICAL would make it easy). Primary goal is backup - TELEDISK should do that. Secondary goal is to produce image files suitable for use with simh and E-11. Thanks for any tips. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Fri Jun 21 05:10:01 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? Message-ID: >Primary goal is backup - TELEDISK should do that. Secondary goal is >to produce image files suitable for use with simh and E-11. Backup implies an ability to restore, and, at least for me, TELEDISK has problems doing that. On my system (which at the time was a K6 233MHz machine) 3.5" disks could be restored without issue but 5.25" disks could not be reliably restored (this seemed to apply to both 360KB and 1.2MB disks). I assume that restoring RX50s will be no easier. It might just have been my system, it might just have been my copy of TELEDISK (there seem to be multiple copies floating around) but it did not fill me with confidence. Is the TELEDISK format freely available? If not, restoring your disks may be difficult once the last PC has expired! BACKUP/PHYSICAL has the advantage that you can at least work out where each block ends up (since the BACKUP source listings are available). (If anyone has suggestions for "imaging" 360KB floppies, 1.2MB floppies and RX50s using PC hardware running Windows or Linux or NetBSD, I'm all ears. Preference given to those with practical experience of restoring the data afterwards ... I'm not keen to run through several hundred floppies just on the off-chance it will be worthwhile.) Antonio From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Jun 21 07:50:06 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Antonio Carlini wrote: > >Primary goal is backup - TELEDISK should do that. Secondary goal is > >to produce image files suitable for use with simh and E-11. > > Backup implies an ability to restore, and, at least > for me, TELEDISK has problems doing that. On my system > (which at the time was a K6 233MHz machine) 3.5" > disks could be restored without issue but 5.25" > disks could not be reliably restored (this seemed > to apply to both 360KB and 1.2MB disks). I assume > that restoring RX50s will be no easier. Unlike Antonio, I've had no such problems. If you have problems with one computer, you might wish to move to a different machine to try this with. > Is the TELEDISK format freely available? If not, > restoring your disks may be difficult once the > last PC has expired! I've seen a C program that decodes the 'normal compression' version of the disk format floating around in source code on the internet. Looking around, this seems to be it: http://www.conknet.com/~w_kranz/WTELEDSK.HTM > BACKUP/PHYSICAL has the advantage that you can at > least work out where each block ends up (since the > BACKUP source listings are available). using 'dd' where possible is much easier > (If anyone has suggestions for "imaging" 360KB > floppies, 1.2MB floppies and RX50s using PC hardware > running Windows or Linux or NetBSD, I'm all ears. > Preference given to those with practical experience > of restoring the data afterwards ... I'm not keen > to run through several hundred floppies just on > the off-chance it will be worthwhile.) 1) If it's a true 360K or 1200K 5.25" disk or 720K or 1440K 3.5" disk, you can just type 'dd if=/dev/fd0 of=disk.img' and get a copy of it, assuming you don't have bad sectors (which teledisk handles more gradefully). 2) Something like teledisk would be fairly easy to construct on Linux/BSD using floppy ioctl's, or INT 13h services on DOS/Winderz (non NT/2k/XP) if you already know the disk format and the program doesn't have to do the discovery (sides, cylenders, sec/track, etc). -- Pat From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Jun 21 07:49:05 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: Computers in Public Xport In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020621074806.02138008@pc> At 01:55 PM 6/20/2002 -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: >I bought the rather impressive looking set of "300 army men" or whatever >the number was only to be severely disappointed when I got them to find >they were cheap molded plastic bastards that were of majorly suckish >quality compared to the more durable and softer plastic variety you could >get from the grocery store toy section. The route to success in any mail order business is to pick a product that costs you less than you charge the customer for shipping and handling. My now 7-year-old son has long had a fantasy of building a helicopter out of scrap wood. I decided to show him the mail order page from "Boy's Life", which is still carrying the same ads I remember for the build-your-own hovercraft, and the "free chameleon." - John From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Fri Jun 21 09:03:48 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: Foxboro PCP-88 (PDP-8) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020621100348.01b1c08c@pop1.epm.net.co> At 02:35 PM 6/20/02 -0700, you wrote: > >According to this FAQ: > >http://www.faqs.org/faqs/dec-faq/pdp8-models/section-2.html > >...the PDP-8 was OEM'd to a company called Foxboro Corporation that >re-badged it as the PCP-88. > >Has anyone ever seen a PCP-88? I would assume it is functionally and >physically equivalent to a DEC PDP-8? No; never seen one; it was probably used for process control, though; Foxboro has a long standing reputation as maker of process automation equipment. In fact, the first pneumatic proportional+integral process controller (the Stabilog) was invented by Clesson E. Mason at Foxboro in 1929; he essentially did to the pneumatic proportional valve what Harold Stephen Black did to the broadband regenerative telephone amplifier a couple of years before: they both linearized and stabilized the entire range of operation of the devices that they were working with by means of negative feedback. I think that the Stabilog qualifies as one of the most important analog computers of all time. It made possible things such as huge refineries, huge ammonium nitrate plants and the mega-process industries in general. I remember seeing an ad about it and about pneumatic instrumentation of the time; it said something like "control your whole factory at the speed of sound! ". :-) . carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Jun 21 09:06:07 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: Motorola zc93124cp Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E04139E7B@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Can anyone tell me anything about this chip? Again, it's a Motorola chip, which is marked "zc93124cp" Might it be some kind of embedded CPU? What does it do, and where do I find more information about it? Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL "Confutatis maledictus, flammis acribus addictus, voca me cum benedictis. Oro supplex et acclinis, cor contritunt quasi cinis, gere curarn mei finis." -Requiem -------------- next part -------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this message is proprietary of Amdocs, protected from disclosure, and may be privileged. The information is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s) of the message. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, use, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Fri Jun 21 09:12:11 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: One SCSI tape connected to 2 hosts? In-Reply-To: References: <000001c21544$02e64500$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020622001011.022b3658@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 03:16 PM 16/06/2002 -0500, Doc wrote: >On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Bob Lafleur wrote: > > > I've noticed that my MV3100's SCSI host ID's are set to 6 - I thought > > this odd, as host ID's are usually 7. Are all MV3100's set to 6, or is > > mine unique? Anyway, I thought since my PC's host ID is 7, I could > > connect my SCSI tape drive to both systems. So I ran a cable from one > > connector on the back to my PC, and a cable from the other connector to > > my MV3100. I figure it's a properly terminated chain, as each host > > controller is terminated (I know the PC is, I assume the MV3100 is). > > > > It *seems* to work OK. But can anyone tell me for sure if this is > > "legal"? I'm sure I'm looking for trouble if I try to use the same tape > > drive from both systems at the same time, but as long as I don't do > > that, is this an okay setup? It would sure beat changing cables every > > time I want to move the tape drive from one system to the other. > >Bob, > A few of the older SCSI "how-to" pages diagrammed just such a setup. >I've never seen it done in real life, but it always looked like a >reasonable idea to me, too. > I just found out, talking to my boss, that both native Solaris and >Veritas Volume manager support that type of configuration. > It's also relevant that you can run IP-over-SCSI between hosts, and >ISTR that the original Beowulf code provided just that for fast >intra-cluster communication. Of course Digital (and Compaq) supported systems with shared SCSI storage under OpenVMS alpha - not surprisingly they were known as SCSI clusters. You still needed ethernet for SCS traffic but it certainly worked. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 21 09:15:05 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020621141505.11452.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Pat Finnegan wrote: > On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > (If anyone has suggestions for "imaging" 360KB > > floppies, 1.2MB floppies and RX50s using PC hardware > > running Windows or Linux or NetBSD, I'm all ears. > > 1) If it's a true 360K or 1200K 5.25" disk or 720K or 1440K 3.5" disk, > you can just type 'dd if=/dev/fd0 of=disk.img' and get a copy of it... The problem is that for DEC RX50s, they are _not_ 360K or 1200K 5.25" disks... they are single-sided, 10-sectors of 512 bytes per track, 80 tracks. They can be read in an ordinary PC high-density drive, but they aren't the usual Windoze format. If they were, I'd just use 'dd' as you suggest. So... again... who here knows how to make 400KB images from real RX50s that emulators will like? I have a wad of Ultrix 32m and MicroVMS diskettes I'd like to spool off, in addition to a small quantity of RT-11. If I have to go with DEC hardware, I can; it will just take a lot longer to do. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Fri Jun 21 09:35:28 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? In-Reply-To: <20020621084826.59093.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000a01c21930$e425c3c0$023ca8c0@blafleur> I used to have a driver you could load under DOS called RX50DRVR that would let you read MS-DOS formatted RX50's on a PC with a 5.25 1.2MB drive. I don't have this program anymore, although it is possible I might be able to search out a copy, and I don't know if it would be helpful at all for non-MS-DOS formatted disks. If you're interested, let me know and I'll see if I can scrounge up a copy. - Bob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 4:48 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? What I would like to do is, with commodity hardware, not DEC hardware, digest a large stack of (distribution) floppies. I don't care if the solution is under Windoze or Linux. Either will work. I have a Teac 5.25" floppy working in my former main PeeCee that dual-boots to Slackware or Win98. I have TELEDISK, I have PUTR, I can probably have anything else if required. I did notice a 10-sector floppy format special-device under Linux. Wasn't sure if dd-ing from that device would work or not, especially with the single/dual-sided issue. Yes, I could probably do this on DEC hardware, but that would entail spending way too much time in the basement where the 8200 is and its console RX50s. If I do this on a PeeCee, I can be doing other things while the disks gronk (but BACKUP/PHYSICAL would make it easy). Primary goal is backup - TELEDISK should do that. Secondary goal is to produce image files suitable for use with simh and E-11. Thanks for any tips. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From allain at panix.com Fri Jun 21 09:39:58 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: Foxboro PCP-88 (PDP-8) References: Message-ID: <004c01c21931$84d2e1e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > It took time for me to mature and realize the > importance of ALL historic computer artifacts :) First thrill: realizing that a 25 Hundred dollar home machine can be found for 25 Dollars. Second thrill: finding a 70 Thousand dollar corporate server for 70 dollars (marked down to 30!) I'm a bit older than some of you but I reached that point only ten years ago. John A. From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Fri Jun 21 09:44:42 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? In-Reply-To: <000a01c21930$e425c3c0$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <000b01c21932$2dfb5360$023ca8c0@blafleur> RX50DRVR would actually assign a different drive letter to be the "RX50" drive. So you could actually DISKCOPY E: E: to copy one RX50 to another. DOS DISKCOPY doesn't care about the format, so I think you could duplicate RX50's this way no matter what system format they are in. Also, a program that makes images from disks (I think they are many, but I can't recommend any specific one) might be able to make an image from an "RX50" drive that would work in SIMH. I'm not positive, but in my mind it has a strong change of succeeding. Hmmm.... Now to figure out where that driver might be... -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bob Lafleur Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 10:35 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? I used to have a driver you could load under DOS called RX50DRVR that would let you read MS-DOS formatted RX50's on a PC with a 5.25 1.2MB drive. I don't have this program anymore, although it is possible I might be able to search out a copy, and I don't know if it would be helpful at all for non-MS-DOS formatted disks. If you're interested, let me know and I'll see if I can scrounge up a copy. - Bob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 4:48 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? What I would like to do is, with commodity hardware, not DEC hardware, digest a large stack of (distribution) floppies. I don't care if the solution is under Windoze or Linux. Either will work. I have a Teac 5.25" floppy working in my former main PeeCee that dual-boots to Slackware or Win98. I have TELEDISK, I have PUTR, I can probably have anything else if required. I did notice a 10-sector floppy format special-device under Linux. Wasn't sure if dd-ing from that device would work or not, especially with the single/dual-sided issue. Yes, I could probably do this on DEC hardware, but that would entail spending way too much time in the basement where the 8200 is and its console RX50s. If I do this on a PeeCee, I can be doing other things while the disks gronk (but BACKUP/PHYSICAL would make it easy). Primary goal is backup - TELEDISK should do that. Secondary goal is to produce image files suitable for use with simh and E-11. Thanks for any tips. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Fri Jun 21 09:48:43 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: One SCSI tape connected to 2 hosts? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020622001011.022b3658@kerberos.davies.net.au> Message-ID: <000c01c21932$bdcd4200$023ca8c0@blafleur> I guess I've abandoned the idea of hooking the tape drive to both systems. It sort of worked, but I found when I had it connected this way, when backing up under Windows, the drive would suddenly become unavailable. Sometimes it would run for an hour, and then this would happen. I don't know if the VMS system was sending it a reset, or what. I didn't use it enough under VMS to know if Windows was interfering from that side, but I did a few medium length tests and it seemed to be OK. I'll just throw the DDS-2 drive into the MicroVAX (I might have to use some sort of mickey-mouse mounting system if I can't find a mounting bracket for a BA42B case) and find another drive for the PC. - Bob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Huw Davies Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 10:12 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: One SCSI tape connected to 2 hosts? At 03:16 PM 16/06/2002 -0500, Doc wrote: >On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Bob Lafleur wrote: > > > I've noticed that my MV3100's SCSI host ID's are set to 6 - I > > thought this odd, as host ID's are usually 7. Are all MV3100's set > > to 6, or is mine unique? Anyway, I thought since my PC's host ID is > > 7, I could connect my SCSI tape drive to both systems. So I ran a > > cable from one connector on the back to my PC, and a cable from the > > other connector to my MV3100. I figure it's a properly terminated > > chain, as each host controller is terminated (I know the PC is, I > > assume the MV3100 is). > > > > It *seems* to work OK. But can anyone tell me for sure if this is > > "legal"? I'm sure I'm looking for trouble if I try to use the same > > tape drive from both systems at the same time, but as long as I > > don't do that, is this an okay setup? It would sure beat changing > > cables every time I want to move the tape drive from one system to > > the other. > >Bob, > A few of the older SCSI "how-to" pages diagrammed just such a setup. >I've never seen it done in real life, but it always looked like a >reasonable idea to me, too. > I just found out, talking to my boss, that both native Solaris and >Veritas Volume manager support that type of configuration. > It's also relevant that you can run IP-over-SCSI between hosts, and >ISTR that the original Beowulf code provided just that for fast >intra-cluster communication. Of course Digital (and Compaq) supported systems with shared SCSI storage under OpenVMS alpha - not surprisingly they were known as SCSI clusters. You still needed ethernet for SCS traffic but it certainly worked. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Jun 21 10:08:12 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: Motorola zc93124cp In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E04139E7B@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E04139E7B@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: <33087.64.169.63.74.1024672092.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Can anyone tell me anything about this chip? > > Again, it's a Motorola chip, which is marked "zc93124cp" It's an ASIC. > Might it be some kind of embedded CPU? It might well contain a CPU. > What does it do, It converts electrical energy into heat. Aside from that, it's hard to say. > and where do I find more information > about it? You probably can't. Motorola certainly won't tell you about it. Maybe the manufacturer of the system containing the chip might, but it's pretty unlikely. This is why it's much more interesting to deal with OLD computers. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 21 10:23:12 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: Foxboro PCP-88 (PDP-8) In-Reply-To: <004c01c21931$84d2e1e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20020621152312.15188.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Allain wrote: > Second thrill: > finding a 70 Thousand dollar corporate > server for 70 dollars (marked down to 30!) > > I'm a bit older than some of you but I reached > that point only ten years ago. For me, it was seeing a $10,000 PDP-8 (new) marked $250 and haggling it down to $35. That was at Dayton, 20 years ago. It was my first classic machine (well... the first machine that was already a classic when I got it; I had an Elf and a PET, but they weren't classic yet). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Jun 21 10:27:08 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: Motorola zc93124cp Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E04139E82@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Smith [mailto:eric@brouhaha.com] > > Might it be some kind of embedded CPU? > It might well contain a CPU. Well, Ok, that's more what I meant, actually. > > What does it do, > It converts electrical energy into heat. Aside from that, it's > hard to say. I'll have to remember to use that, next time it's appropriate ;) > Maybe the manufacturer of the system containing the chip might, but > it's pretty unlikely. I think that's out of the question, since it's embedded deep in another non-computer-related thing that hasn't been made since the late 80's. > This is why it's much more interesting to deal with OLD computers. I agree, but my aim is to either re-program this thing, or replace the embedded computer completely with something that does work in a well documented way. It will require interpreting some (simple, open/closed and possibly some "timed pulse" kind of things) signals from other equipment, interpreting the signals, and displaying the results on a pair of matrix displays. One is possibly twenty-something by twenty-something, the other 8 or so by maybe 64. Of course, I've also thought about replacing the matrix screens with an LCD of higher resolution. The thing is, I'd rather see about just writing new code for it, but to do that, I need to figure out just what I'm looking at. Another related question is, assuming that this were an embedded ASIC from that era, what could I hope to find inside? Might it have its own internal PROM to store the program? (In which case, I'd need to find a replacement, or use a different chip...) Chris (who has less than sufficient experience with embedded computers) Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL "Confutatis maledictus, flammis acribus addictus, voca me cum benedictis. Oro supplex et acclinis, cor contritunt quasi cinis, gere curarn mei finis." -Requiem -------------- next part -------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this message is proprietary of Amdocs, protected from disclosure, and may be privileged. The information is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s) of the message. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, use, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Jun 21 10:46:39 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: Cool IIgs find Message-ID: <006801c2193a$d9149ec0$83000240@default> At local thrift last night I got a Apple IIgs that had a ELINA fan and 20 meg harddrive combo mounted were the normal power supply goes. Also inside was a AE TRANSWARP GS card, AE VULCAN controller card for the HD, and a AE RAMKEEPER card with 2 Apple ram cards mounted to it. There was a dryfit A200 ext battery Sonnenscheen with it also that works with the Ram card? The cables, mouse, and keyboard also came with it and all or $12.21. I will have to go down to the shop and get a monitor to test it with. At the Goodwill I got a Radio Shack Electronic TV Scoreboard in the box without manuals:-( At another thrift I got a Genesis 32X unit for $3.93, Actimate Arthur by Microsoft, A new unopened package from Teledyne with a early Data Processing Symbols Template. There several other goodies but they are too new to list. From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Jun 21 10:42:29 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? In-Reply-To: <20020621141505.11452.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Pat Finnegan wrote: > > On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > (If anyone has suggestions for "imaging" 360KB > > > floppies, 1.2MB floppies and RX50s using PC hardware > > > running Windows or Linux or NetBSD, I'm all ears. > > > > 1) If it's a true 360K or 1200K 5.25" disk or 720K or 1440K 3.5" disk, > > you can just type 'dd if=/dev/fd0 of=disk.img' and get a copy of it... > > The problem is that for DEC RX50s, they are _not_ 360K or 1200K 5.25" > disks... they are single-sided, 10-sectors of 512 bytes per track, 80 I know.. that's why I said 'if' and the #2 options. I'm working on a DOS program to format the disk and write the tracks, and probably will write a quick 50-liner to read the disks (this is in assembly), which I'll post once I get it to work. Does anyone have info or links to relevant info on the necessary ioctl's for Linux's floppy device driver? -- Pat From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Jun 21 10:53:15 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:33 2005 Subject: 8" floppy drive question (was New Finds) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It seemed like no one was responding, so I'm reposting with a better subject... On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Pat Finnegan wrote: > Data Systems Design Model 880-D8. It has a DS Shugart 8" floppy drive in > it (which I intend to use to fix my Altos 8000) and a SA-1000 interface 8" It has a Shugart model 513 drive. How likely am I to be able to replace a Shugart 801 drive with it? I know the 513 is DS and the 801 is SS, but that shouldn't matter, right? It seems to want to conflict with the other 513 drive in my ACS-8000, and also doesn't want to light up its 'selected' LED at boot when I jumper it to DS0. Is there some sort of jumpering on the drive I need to change to get it to work with the ACS-8000, do I need to rewire the cable, or it it easier than it seems? Does anyone have a pinout for the connector? Also, would it instead be possible to use a CDC Model Number (Equipment ID) BR8A2A, Part nymber 7574025 drive? I have the CDC drives and pinouts, but using them guarantees the drive won't fit properly into the case, and I'll have to at least solder on a card edge connector and adapt the power input connectors for the drive to match the computer's connectors. All in all, a fair amount of work either way I end up doing it... -- Pat From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Jun 21 11:19:09 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: Motorola zc93124cp In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E04139E82@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E04139E82@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: <33173.64.169.63.74.1024676349.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Another related question is, assuming that this were an embedded > ASIC from that era, what could I hope to find inside? Might it > have its own internal PROM to store the program? (In which case, > I'd need to find a replacement, or use a different chip...) If it contains a processor, it probably also has masked ROM. From rschaefe at gcfn.org Fri Jun 21 11:33:46 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: Cool IIgs find In-Reply-To: <006801c2193a$d9149ec0$83000240@default> References: <006801c2193a$d9149ec0$83000240@default> Message-ID: <65411.128.146.70.142.1024677226.squirrel@www.gcfn.org> > At local thrift last night I got a Apple IIgs that had a ELINA fan and > 20 meg harddrive combo mounted were the normal power supply goes. Also > inside was a AE TRANSWARP GS card, AE VULCAN controller card for the > HD, and a AE RAMKEEPER card with 2 Apple ram cards mounted to it. There > was a dryfit A200 ext battery Sonnenscheen with it also that works with > the Ram card? The cables, mouse, and keyboard also came with it and all > or $12.21. I will have to go down to the shop and get a monitor to test > it with. Sugoi! That's a keeper! Keep an eye on the ramkeeper & battery. IIRC they had a tendancy to catch on fire... Bob From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jun 21 11:44:51 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? In-Reply-To: <20020621141505.11452.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > The problem is that for DEC RX50s, they are _not_ 360K or 1200K 5.25" > disks... they are single-sided, 10-sectors of 512 bytes per track, 80 > tracks. They can be read in an ordinary PC high-density drive, but > they aren't the usual Windoze format. If they were, I'd just use 'dd' > as you suggest. I _hate_ it when dd won't work! And it won't, at least in Linux -- there's apparently no device which reads/writes 80/10/512 on 5.25" floppy. I can't find anything for NetBSD, either. However, I did find this -- http://www.conknet.com/~w_kranz/WTELEDSK.HTM a TeleDisk clone that "should" compile in Linux, but didn't. I didn't try hard.... It really irks me that I have to keep a DOS box around for stuff like this. Atari .msa disks, the TeleDisk files all over the web, all seem to be used mostly by Linux/Unix-savvy people, but there aren't any PC-Unix utilities. I guess maybe now I have a burning drive (pun intended) to learn C.... > > So... again... who here knows how to make 400KB images from real RX50s > that emulators will like? I have a wad of Ultrix 32m and MicroVMS > diskettes I'd like to spool off, in addition to a small quantity of > RT-11. Ooohhh.... Ultrix! Will it run on KA630 or KA655? The PUPS version of 32M is like 11/780 or older or something. Erzatz-11 eval says you can read-write RX50 on a HD 5.25" drive. I expect that emulators, or at least E-11, will like those.... Doc From mythtech at mac.com Fri Jun 21 12:26:52 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: Document copy protection Message-ID: >On the >front is a plastic 'cone' (really a truncated rectangular pyramid). You >hold the front side of that against the monitor screen and press the >shutter release. Sounds like the thing the insurance company upstairs uses for photographing VIN numbers thru the windshield of a car -chris From curt at atari-history.com Fri Jun 21 12:30:46 2002 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: Warner/Amex "QUBE" Set-top box? References: <20020621083749.79708.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006e01c21949$6108aa20$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Ethan Wow, thanks for the all the great info..... I hope to find one of the beasties one day, I started doing a search on the web, but unlike vintage computer, video game, tv and radio collectors, I don't seem to see anyone insane enough to collect vintage cable boxes :-) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 4:37 AM Subject: Re: Warner/Amex "QUBE" Set-top box? > > --- Curt Vendel wrote: > > Anyone have one of these or have some photo's of it. It was one of the > > first attempts at Interactive TV. I need it for an article I'm > > writing, > > thanks. If anyone has one to sell, I'm also interested as well. > > Wish I did. We _had_ QUBE when it was new. Big Fun. > > For those that don't know, it was an unassuming cable box, black, > maybe 30cm x 30cm x 5cm, but the interesting part was this pod on > the end of a 10m cable - it had 10 buttons down the left side, three > across the bottom, and 5 on the right. The three at the bottom were > momentary - they selected a filter bank in the box to give you a > range of 10 channels (of which only one at a time could be depressed; > it would pop up the previous selection). The columns were marked P, C > and T for "Premium", "Community" and "Television". Among other things, > I recall that P7 or P8 was for R-rated entertainment, and P10 was for > Adult. > > The five buttons on the right, and the "Response" light at the top > were the interactive part - with interactive programming of local > origin (they had a full-blown TV studio as well as a cable franchise), > the host could initiate a poll - the Response light meant that the > voting period was open - or simply tell you to press "1" to have > information about the current show/guest mailed to you with your bill. > There was even a kids game show with Flippo the Clown that you could > play along with at home. > > It was plagued with technical problems galore - the first month, they > gave away the movies (there were only two pay movies, "A Star is Born", > and "Raggedy Ann and Andy") because their billing system was messed up. > Another game was to figure out how to defeat the box and watch free > movies - they went through 5 generations or so before it got too hard > for ordinary consumers to bother. The first one was the easiest - press > down three or more black response buttons and change the column from > C or T to P. The light would indicate the old column, but the filter > bank would change internally, displaying the P channels. You could > swap from 1 to 10 at will. The system never noticed you were in the > premium rank. It got harder after that. > > I kinda miss it. We used to have great fun with the kids show, and it > was good for cooking shows, too. It expanded to several cities in Ohio > and Texas before Warner folded it. > > This was all well over 10 years ago, so the technology is quite on topic. > > -ethan > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 21 12:40:37 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020621174037.49907.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> --- Doc wrote: > On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > The problem is that for DEC RX50s, they are _not_ 360K or 1200K 5.25" > > disks... they are single-sided, 10-sectors of 512 bytes per track, 80 > > tracks. > > I _hate_ it when dd won't work! And it won't, at least in Linux -- > there's apparently no device which reads/writes 80/10/512 on 5.25" > floppy. I can't find anything for NetBSD, either. I did find a device on the Linux side of the boxin question with something close - it's double-sided, though. If it matters, I think it's running an ancient Slackware distro (4.0?) 2.0.36 kernel. I only upgrade software at gunpoint. I haven't tried anything with it yet, due to the DS nature. I suppose I could go digging in the source and create a minor device number that did what I want, at least in terms of geometry. The one I'm looking at, BTW, is minor number 120 (IIRC), if that even is a portable quantity. Major numbers aren't once you start fiddling with devices and recompiling the kernel. > However, I did find this -- > > http://www.conknet.com/~w_kranz/WTELEDSK.HTM > > a TeleDisk clone that "should" compile in Linux, but didn't. I didn't > try hard.... Thanks. I'll look into that. > I guess maybe now I have a burning drive (pun intended) to learn C.... I got that covered. > > I have a wad of Ultrix 32m and MicroVMS diskettes... > > Ooohhh.... Ultrix! Will it run on KA630 or KA655? The PUPS version > of 32M is like 11/780 or older or something. They came from our MicroVAX-I or MicroVAX-II, c. 1986-1987, so the KA630 should be no problem. Dunno about the KA655, though. My newest Qbus CPU is a uVAX-II (got RAM, but no CPU). I think it all fits on an RD52; an RD53 would be plenty of room. > Erzatz-11 eval says you can read-write RX50 on a HD 5.25" drive. I > expect that emulators, or at least E-11, will like those.... I guess I can go that route, too. I hadn't dug into E-11 enough to know that I could use a real 5.25" drive with the emulator. It begs the question, though - how well does a *real* RX50 drive work with a PeeCee, with or without E-11? Any advantage? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 21 12:57:14 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? In-Reply-To: <000a01c21930$e425c3c0$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <20020621175714.454.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bob Lafleur wrote: > I used to have a driver you could load under DOS called RX50DRVR... I vaguely remember that from 10+ years ago. Here's what I found of interest on a Google for RX50DRVR http://www.ps8computing.co.uk/PDP11/professional.htm http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/pups/2000-July/000222.html http://vaxarchive.org/hw/rx50.html ...and the winner is... ftp://www.simtel.net/pub/simtelnet/msdos/diskutil/rx50.zip Thanks for the keyword/tip, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 21 13:04:49 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: Warner/Amex "QUBE" Set-top box? In-Reply-To: <006e01c21949$6108aa20$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <20020621180449.98249.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Curt Vendel wrote: > Ethan > > Wow, thanks for the all the great info..... You're welcome. Here's a few URLs I found while looking for a photo on the web... http://www.barberusa.com/rock/rundgren_todd.html http://www.atari-history.com/businessweek.html http://www.intertainer.tv/intertainer/corporate/articles/28.html http://www.intertainer.tv/intertainer/corporate/articles/28.html ... but no pictures. :-( -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 21 13:14:55 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: Warner/Amex "QUBE" Set-top box? In-Reply-To: <006e01c21949$6108aa20$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Curt Vendel wrote: > Wow, thanks for the all the great info..... I hope to find one of the > beasties one day, I started doing a search on the web, but unlike vintage > computer, video game, tv and radio collectors, I don't seem to see anyone > insane enough to collect vintage cable boxes :-) Uh, I have at least one classic cable TV converter in my collection. Anyone remember ONTV from southern California? :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jun 21 13:20:56 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? In-Reply-To: <20020621174037.49907.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I did find a device on the Linux side of the boxin question with something > close - it's double-sided, though. If it matters, I think it's running > an ancient Slackware distro (4.0?) 2.0.36 kernel. I only upgrade software > at gunpoint. I haven't tried anything with it yet, due to the DS nature. > I suppose I could go digging in the source and create a minor device > number that did what I want, at least in terms of geometry. The one I'm > looking at, BTW, is minor number 120 (IIRC), if that even is a portable > quantity. Major numbers aren't once you start fiddling with devices and > recompiling the kernel. /dev/fdX800 is major 2 minor 120, 800k, 80 tracks, double-sided 10 sector, *3.5"* device. Won't fly on 5.25". I've written 360k SS images on 720k DS disks with no problems, as long as the drive is single-sided. I don't know that I've tried it with a HD drive without preformatting the disk to SS first. > > > I have a wad of Ultrix 32m and MicroVMS diskettes... > > > > Ooohhh.... Ultrix! Will it run on KA630 or KA655? The PUPS version > > of 32M is like 11/780 or older or something. > > They came from our MicroVAX-I or MicroVAX-II, c. 1986-1987, so the KA630 > should be no problem. Dunno about the KA655, though. My newest Qbus CPU > is a uVAX-II (got RAM, but no CPU). I think it all fits on an RD52; an > RD53 would be plenty of room. > > > Erzatz-11 eval says you can read-write RX50 on a HD 5.25" drive. I > > expect that emulators, or at least E-11, will like those.... > > I guess I can go that route, too. I hadn't dug into E-11 enough to know > that I could use a real 5.25" drive with the emulator. It begs the > question, though - how well does a *real* RX50 drive work with a PeeCee, > with or without E-11? Any advantage? Why would anybody WANT to? :) I haven't ever even hooked up my RX50. So far, TK50 & netboots have been sufficient. Doc From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Jun 21 13:35:25 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: Warner/Amex "QUBE" Set-top box? References: Message-ID: <3D1371ED.435728AF@jetnet.ab.ca> Sellam Ismail wrote: > Uh, I have at least one classic cable TV converter in my collection. > Anyone remember ONTV from southern California? Does it get CLASSIC TV too! (Grin) From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jun 21 13:38:49 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Doc wrote: > /dev/fdX800 is major 2 minor 120, 800k, 80 tracks, double-sided 10 ^^^^^^^^^^^ Oops! That's /dev/fdXu800 (X is the drive number) or, IIRC, /dev/fdXH800 in the older kernel tables. Doc From truthanl at oclc.org Fri Jun 21 13:42:53 2002 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: Warner /Amex "QUBE" set top box Message-ID: <90D12689EF7A0543AB11426D75D6ABC50358EE93@oa4-server.oa.oclc.org> I think Bank-One and OCLC also had some research resources commited to the early interactive cable project. I recall we used to have some proto-types of set top boxes with an interactive cable banking function somewhere in the penthouse. Mid to late 70's - I think we trashed 'em. Some of the upper management was interested in interactive communicatoin from homes - but it became obvious that it was difficult to incorporate with our library based mission. So our research was based on cable broadband network technology study - but I remember we had proto-type boxes - which also had a banking sponsor. Larry Truthan - Digest Subscriber From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 21 13:47:46 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: Warner/Amex "QUBE" Set-top box? In-Reply-To: <20020621180449.98249.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020621184746.51752.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- Curt Vendel wrote: > Ethan > > Wow, thanks for the all the great info..... Here's the pick of the litter: http://www.media-visions.com/itv-qube.html ... some good info in there, and an image of their logo, still no box. :-( -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 21 13:53:12 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020621185312.82640.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Doc wrote: > On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > /dev/fdX800 is major 2 minor 120, 800k, 80 tracks, double-sided 10 > sector, *3.5"* device. Won't fly on 5.25". Makes sense - it was 04:00 when I ran across it. Too bleary to notice the minor detail of size. > > > > I have a wad of Ultrix 32m and MicroVMS diskettes... > > > > ...how well does a *real* RX50 drive work with a > > > > PeeCee, with or without E-11? Any advantage? > > Why would anybody WANT to? :) Not a case of want. If I needed, for example, to make a stack of distro floppies from images for, say. a Pro-380, there aren't a lot of options except writing real media. I was just curious if a real RX50 did a better job than a Teac FD55GFR or not. I would expect "not" given the construction qualities of both devices, but I thought I would ask. > I haven't ever even hooked up my RX50. So far, TK50 & netboots have > been sufficient. Don't got a DECNA. :-( TK50 and ethernet would be OK for uVAX, though. I'm thinking PDP-11 at this point. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 21 15:09:04 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: Warner /Amex "QUBE" set top box In-Reply-To: <90D12689EF7A0543AB11426D75D6ABC50358EE93@oa4-server.oa.oclc.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Truthan,Larry wrote: > I think Bank-One and OCLC also had some research resources commited to the > early interactive cable project. > > I recall we used to have some proto-types of set top boxes with an > interactive cable banking function somewhere in the penthouse. Mid to late > 70's - I think we trashed 'em. I've got 2-3 unique early cable modem receivers for services that never really took off. They range from the late 1980s to the early 1990s. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Jun 21 16:30:12 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: new toy DG Nova 4X Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020621163012.40c78934@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I went by a surplus place today and found the remains of a DG Nova 4x that they'd already scrapped. Further searching revealed a 4x that they hadn't gotten to yet. I grabbed it, the floppy drives (8") from both units and the front panels from both and the CPU and a couple of other cards from the first unit. I did leave behind the hard drives (that may have been a mistake). Does anyone have info on these? Joe From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 21 15:44:22 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: new toy DG Nova 4X In-Reply-To: from "Joe" at Jun 21, 2002 04:30:12 PM Message-ID: <200206212044.g5LKiMS23017@shell1.aracnet.com> > the first unit. I did leave behind the hard drives (that may have been a > mistake). Does anyone have info on these? I don't have any info, however, leaving the Hard Drives was almost definitely a mistake! Now, get in your vehicle and go back and get them! Zane From dan at ekoan.com Fri Jun 21 16:14:56 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: Warner/Amex "QUBE" Set-top box? In-Reply-To: References: <006e01c21949$6108aa20$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020621165617.04014a70@enigma> At 11:14 AM 6/21/02 -0700, you wrote: >Uh, I have at least one classic cable TV converter in my collection. >Anyone remember ONTV from southern California? I remember ON-TV from Chicago, early 1980's. Bad business model. You can read more about it at http://www.chicagotelevision.com/pay3.htm I also remember the thriving cottage industry of gray-market decoders for that service. Before anyone wonders, I worked for Oak Communications. I may even have some old Oak cable tuners in the basement. Cheers, Dan From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 20 20:15:35 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: TV Typewriter II In-Reply-To: from "Louis Schulman" at Jun 20, 2 00:09:16 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1257 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020621/a3ec0db7/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Fri Jun 21 16:53:32 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? In-Reply-To: <000a01c21930$e425c3c0$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Bob Lafleur wrote: > I used to have a driver you could load under DOS called RX50DRVR that > would let you read MS-DOS formatted RX50's on a PC with a 5.25 1.2MB There is also a driver named RAINDOS which serves the same purpose. It will, in addition, allow formatting an RX50 diskette. > drive. I don't have this program anymore, although it is possible I > might be able to search out a copy, and I don't know if it would be > helpful at all for non-MS-DOS formatted disks. If you're interested, let > me know and I'll see if I can scrounge up a copy. The ubiquitous 22Disk will take care of CP/M formatted RX50's (also 512 x 10), but other formats might pose more of a problem. - don > - Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks > Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 4:48 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? > > > > What I would like to do is, with commodity hardware, not DEC hardware, > digest a large stack of (distribution) floppies. I don't care if the > solution is under Windoze or Linux. Either will work. I have a Teac > 5.25" floppy working in my former main PeeCee that dual-boots to > Slackware or Win98. > > I have TELEDISK, I have PUTR, I can probably have anything else if > required. I did notice a 10-sector floppy format special-device under > Linux. Wasn't sure if dd-ing from that device would work or not, > especially with the single/dual-sided issue. > > Yes, I could probably do this on DEC hardware, but that would entail > spending way too much time in the basement where the 8200 is and its > console RX50s. If I do this on a PeeCee, I can be doing other things > while the disks gronk (but BACKUP/PHYSICAL would make it easy). > > Primary goal is backup - TELEDISK should do that. Secondary goal is to > produce image files suitable for use with simh and E-11. > > Thanks for any tips. > > -ethan > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com > > From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Fri Jun 21 18:04:30 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? References: <20020621084826.59093.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D13B0FE.CDC7E575@compsys.to> >Ethan Dicks wrote: > What I would like to do is, with commodity hardware, not DEC hardware, > digest a large stack of (distribution) floppies. I don't care if > the solution is under Windoze or Linux. Either will work. I have > a Teac 5.25" floppy working in my former main PeeCee that dual-boots to > Slackware or Win98. > I have TELEDISK, I have PUTR, I can probably have anything else if > required. I did notice a 10-sector floppy format special-device > under Linux. Wasn't sure if dd-ing from that device would work > or not, especially with the single/dual-sided issue. > Yes, I could probably do this on DEC hardware, but that would entail > spending way too much time in the basement where the 8200 is and its > console RX50s. If I do this on a PeeCee, I can be doing other things > while the disks gronk (but BACKUP/PHYSICAL would make it easy). > Primary goal is backup - TELEDISK should do that. Secondary goal is > to produce image files suitable for use with simh and E-11. > Thanks for any tips. > -ethan Jerome Fine replies: I realize that this answer is biased in favour of using RT-11, but that is because I tend to use RT-11 as the solution whenever it is possible. In my solution, you gain the advantage of using all of the tools that RT-11 provides. First, set up a small image of RT-11 files in a Windows 98 file which be MOUNTed by E11. Normally, a 988 block file which E11 uses as RX02 emulation or DY is sufficient for a job like you are doing. Then use PUTR to FORMAT (actually Create and zero out) a number of large empty container files which you will use to hold the RX50 images. Since the hobby version of E11 allows a maximum of 32 MBytes for both the DY and the DU container files, probably a 60,068 block file which will hold exactly 75 RX50 images is about correct (and allows for the 68 blocks of directory when you do the INIT). If E11 allows it, an extra 4000 blocks in the container file would accept 80 RX50 images. The set up a file that inits E11 and boots from the DY as well as MOUNTs the 5 1/4" floppy as DU1: For each different set of 75 RX50 images, you will need to tell E11 (use SHIFT/ENTER to get the E11 prompt): MOUNT DU0: Under RT-11, the command: COPY/DEVICE/FILES DU1: DU0:imagnn.DSK will then copy the RX50 to the next image file in DU0: You might also want to (I ALWAYS DO THIS): DIFF/BIN DU1: DU0:imagnn.DSK You can probably use SIMH instead of E11 in which case I don't think there is a restriction of the size of the files. After the image files are set up in DU0:, you can do anything you want under RT-11. Later, you can use PUTR to copy the individual image files to Windows 98 and then to a CD. REMEMBER that BEFORE you use PUTR to copy the RX50 images out of the container file, SET COPY BINARY. The key advantage is that under RT-11, the images files can be compared and modified if need be. The disadvantage is that each file name is only 6 characters in UPPER case. If you have any more questions, please ask. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 21 18:07:32 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: IBM Technical Reports Archives online? Message-ID: Does anyone know of a server somewhere online where IBM keeps all it's archived Technical Reports? I've spent considerable time navigating through IBM's site but have not been able to turn anything up older than a few months. Specifically, I am looking for the following Technical Report (numbered RC16672): S. R. White, S. H. Weingart, W. C. Arnold and E. R. Palmer. Introduction to the Citadel Architecture: Security in Physically Exposed Environments. Technical Report, Distributed Systems Security Group. IBM T. J. Watson Research Center. March 1991. [RC16672] Any help locating this would be appreciated. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jun 21 18:13:51 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: One SCSI tape connected to 2 hosts? References: <000c01c21932$bdcd4200$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <001701c21979$4ea26d00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I rather hate to tell you this, but, backing up Windows, depending, I guess, on which software package in use at the time, your tape drive will occasionall disappear anyway. I've yet to see a backup package, for Windows 9x anyway, that doesn't lose SCSI tape drives from time to time. In fact it doesn't manage removabel SCSI disk drives terribly well either. In short, it's not the tape drive or the SCSI hookup, probably, but is more than likely the stupid and short-sighted way in which the SCSI subsystem under Windows is implemented. What you might find works pretty well, as compromises go, is to put a terminator at the tape drive, assign it the appropriate address, and simply attach it to one subsystem or the other as needed. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Lafleur" To: Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 8:48 AM Subject: RE: One SCSI tape connected to 2 hosts? > I guess I've abandoned the idea of hooking the tape drive to both > systems. It sort of worked, but I found when I had it connected this > way, when backing up under Windows, the drive would suddenly become > unavailable. Sometimes it would run for an hour, and then this would > happen. I don't know if the VMS system was sending it a reset, or what. > I didn't use it enough under VMS to know if Windows was interfering from > that side, but I did a few medium length tests and it seemed to be OK. > > I'll just throw the DDS-2 drive into the MicroVAX (I might have to use > some sort of mickey-mouse mounting system if I can't find a mounting > bracket for a BA42B case) and find another drive for the PC. > > - Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Huw Davies > Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 10:12 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: One SCSI tape connected to 2 hosts? > > > At 03:16 PM 16/06/2002 -0500, Doc wrote: > >On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Bob Lafleur wrote: > > > > > I've noticed that my MV3100's SCSI host ID's are set to 6 - I > > > thought this odd, as host ID's are usually 7. Are all MV3100's set > > > to 6, or is mine unique? Anyway, I thought since my PC's host ID is > > > 7, I could connect my SCSI tape drive to both systems. So I ran a > > > cable from one connector on the back to my PC, and a cable from the > > > other connector to my MV3100. I figure it's a properly terminated > > > chain, as each host controller is terminated (I know the PC is, I > > > assume the MV3100 is). > > > > > > It *seems* to work OK. But can anyone tell me for sure if this is > > > "legal"? I'm sure I'm looking for trouble if I try to use the same > > > tape drive from both systems at the same time, but as long as I > > > don't do that, is this an okay setup? It would sure beat changing > > > cables every time I want to move the tape drive from one system to > > > the other. > > > >Bob, > > A few of the older SCSI "how-to" pages diagrammed just such a setup. > > >I've never seen it done in real life, but it always looked like a > >reasonable idea to me, too. > > I just found out, talking to my boss, that both native Solaris and > >Veritas Volume manager support that type of configuration. > > It's also relevant that you can run IP-over-SCSI between hosts, and > >ISTR that the original Beowulf code provided just that for fast > >intra-cluster communication. > > Of course Digital (and Compaq) supported systems with shared SCSI > storage > under OpenVMS alpha - not surprisingly they were known as SCSI clusters. > > You still needed ethernet for SCS traffic but it certainly worked. > > Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au > | "If God had wanted soccer played in the > | air, the sky would be painted green" > > > From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Fri Jun 21 18:24:58 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? References: Message-ID: <3D13B5C9.89FE496C@compsys.to> >Doc wrote: > >On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > The problem is that for DEC RX50s, they are _not_ 360K or 1200K 5.25" > > disks... they are single-sided, 10-sectors of 512 bytes per track, 80 > > tracks. They can be read in an ordinary PC high-density drive, but > > they aren't the usual Windoze format. If they were, I'd just use 'dd' > > as you suggest. > I _hate_ it when dd won't work! And it won't, at least in Linux -- > there's apparently no device which reads/writes 80/10/512 on 5.25" > floppy. I can't find anything for NetBSD, either. Jerome Fine replies: That is why I use Ersatz-11 when I need to handle an RX50 (5 1/4" with the 80/10/512 LLF format) floppy. I find it is the best and fastest way to read/write data to that type of media. Plus, RT-11 has so many tools built in such as BINCON, SIPP, DUMP and others to manipulate the data. Of course, if you need to do an actual FORMAT of the media, then PUTR can do that as well. The actual command in PUTR is: FORMAT b: when the 5 1/4" HD PC floppy drive is the second drive in a PC DOS/W95/W98 box. Since these days the 3 1/2" floppy drive is almost mandatory, it is usually the A: drive. NOTE: If you are adding a 5 1/4" floppy drive to your system under Windows 98, I found that the BIOS would accept the 5 1/4" floppy, BUT Windows 98 would NOT do so UNTIL my son removed the 3 1/2" A: floppy drive from the list of available floppy drives. Evidentially Windows 98 will not look at which floppy drives are available UNLESS there are initially NO floppy drives on the system!!! At least, that was my experience. If you have the same problem, let us know so we will realize that the problem was not just an isolated difficulty. > > So... again... who here knows how to make 400KB images from real RX50s > > that emulators will like? I have a wad of Ultrix 32m and MicroVMS > > diskettes I'd like to spool off, in addition to a small quantity of > > RT-11. > Ooohhh.... Ultrix! Will it run on KA630 or KA655? The PUPS version > of 32M is like 11/780 or older or something. > Erzatz-11 eval says you can read-write RX50 on a HD 5.25" drive. I > expect that emulators, or at least E-11, will like those.... YES!!!! E11 is the best I have found. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Fri Jun 21 18:33:10 2002 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: Bulk Tape Eraser / 486 Linux box problem SCSI In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A3D@yalepress3.unipre ss.yale.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020621191602.00a28380@n.ml.org> Now you two have really given me an idea. Scary as that might be. Building a computer desk and office out of failed computer parts. Now, just to win the damned lottery so I can actually spend at least 5 minutes a day figuring out how to obtain enough parts and break them down into something workable. Grin. On another note: This is on topic since ALL equipment except the replacement hard drive are over 10 years old. I have a 486x33Mhz with pure 30pin SIMMS (no 72 mix here) maxed out at 16MB (16 of these x 1MB), with EISA bus. I have an Adaptec 1740A SCSI controller, a Trident ISA video card, a Creative Labs Sound Blaster ISA, a DCA ISA / MCA Token Ring Adapter (obviously using the ISA), a 10Mbit ISA NIC, Generic I/O card with floppy and IDE, 32x IDE CD-ROM and a Seagate Elite 9 ST410800N 10/9GB SCSI drive (set to ID 0 since the 1740A insists that you use ID 0 to boot the machine). I am trying to load Slackware 7.1 on it. Problem: how do I get the damned install from floppy to see the CD-ROM and see the hard drive properly? It goes to start the installer and it comes up loading the initial install kernal with this error: SCSI host found at (0) Unable to load SCSI host (0) Now, mind you, I can see and play with the damned drive in PC DOS 7, booted from Floppy. Why not in Linux? I am removing hair at this point since it took me 2 weeks to restore the system to a working state as it is. Also, anyone know of a friggin GUI utility that allows you to still use the keyboard (tab, space bar, etc) for drive partitioning and editing to set up a Linux partition (possibly as a bootable util from a floppy?)? Guessing in a command prompt really blows. The plan is to get it up as an actual server on the broadband cable here so I can offer email and web space in the future (trying to help friend of mine over at dhs.org unload some of the users on his aging server and bring them up to date). Any input will be greatly appreciated. -John -John At 11:44 AM 6/19/02, you wrote: > > From: Chris > > > > > Or a drink coaster. The circuit boards is good as a backer for a > > >notepad. And use the cases for banks, letter holder, pen holder, etc... > > > > Humm... I have a few dead drives here... maybe I'll yank the boards, use > > some small hinges, and make myself a note pad case (I've seen them for > > sale before, but never with components on them) > > > > But I think if I start making all my office desk items from used computer > > parts, then the staff here will REALLY think I have gone insane... then > > again, maybe that will be a good thing, they'll stay out of my office > > (barricading the door and covering the floor with electronic junk hasn't > > stopped them... it just makes them trip when trying to come near my desk) > > > Well, the 3' x 5' Jolly Roger flag on my wall has slowed them down a >bit. :) Not to mention that my "office" is really in the back of the printer >room, I just used some 7' cabinets to form a wall, so my office is sort of >"hidden". > >-- >--- David A Woyciesjes >--- C & IS Support Specialist >--- Yale University Press >--- (203) 432-0953 >--- ICQ # - 905818 >Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 >Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Fri Jun 21 18:42:29 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? References: <20020621174037.49907.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D13B9E5.9F0B20FE@compsys.to> >Ethan Dicks wrote: > > Doc wrote: > > Erzatz-11 eval says you can read-write RX50 on a HD 5.25" drive. I > > expect that emulators, or at least E-11, will like those.... > I guess I can go that route, too. I hadn't dug into E-11 enough to know > that I could use a real 5.25" drive with the emulator. It begs the > question, though - how well does a *real* RX50 drive work with a PeeCee, > with or without E-11? Any advantage? Jerome Fine replies: While I have heard than an RX50 drive will work on a PeeCee system under Windows 98, why go to all the trouble of doing so? A standard HD 5 1/4" 1.2 MByte drive is much easier to find although they may have become less available over the past few years. It is compatible with standard PeeCee software/hardware and handles BOTH standard 1.2 MByte HD floppy media in addition the RX50 media via a number of utilities such as PUTR and Ersatz-11. The actual RX50 can't read the 1.2 MByte media and can't do a LLF (Low Level Format) on the media - at least it is NOT possible using DEC hardware on the PDP-11, although I have heard that some RX50 drives (BUT NOT ALL) could do an LLF on a Rainbow. However, the best advantage with Ersatz-11 and the standard 5 1/4" HD 1.2 MByte PeeCee floppy drive is that it handles RX50 media as standard RX50 devices and can be used with RT-11 without any difference from using the media on real DEC PDP-11 hardware. It also allows RX33 emulation if that is useful. Note that the RX33 on a real DEC PDP-11 must be used with an RQDX3. Neither the RQDX1 nor the RQDX2 can handle the RX33. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Fri Jun 21 18:54:49 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? References: Message-ID: <3D13BCC9.C451D0B9@compsys.to> >Doc wrote: > >On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > I guess I can go that route, too. I hadn't dug into E-11 enough to know > > that I could use a real 5.25" drive with the emulator. It begs the > > question, though - how well does a *real* RX50 drive work with a PeeCee, > > with or without E-11? Any advantage? > Why would anybody WANT to? :) > I haven't ever even hooked up my RX50. So far, TK50 & netboots have > been sufficient. Jerome Fine replies: While the RX50 is still a very standard drive for real DEC PDP-11 hardware, the RX23 (3 1/2" 1.44 MByte floppy drive equivalent to and probably identical to the same drive on a PeeCee) is very rare on a PDP-11. The uVAX 3100 did have a special SCSI adapter to use the RX23, so I presume that the RX23 was more widely used with that system. However, if Ersatz-11 is being used, then PDP-11 software is being run - obviously. So an RX50 would be widely in use. The first time I ever wanted accept some work for a PDP-11 that was to be delivered out of town via the internet was on a system that used an RX50 at both ends. PUTR was the perfect solution for small files of less than 800 blocks. Just copy them to an RX50 on the PDP-11 at my end, use PUTR to copy the file to the Windows 95 (it was 3 years ago) directory (and don't forget SET COPY BINARY), attach the file to an e-mail. At the other end, the reverse was done. PERFECT and fast - about 10 minutes from the time I copied the file to the RX50 at my end until the copy was made from the RX50 at the other end to the target PDP-11 to run the program. It did not hurt that TSX-PLUS was the operating system being used which is compatible with RT-11. -- Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From mythtech at mac.com Fri Jun 21 18:57:42 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: Bulk Tape Eraser / 486 Linux box problem SCSI Message-ID: >Scary as that might be. Building >a computer desk and office out of failed computer parts. Now, just to win >the damned lottery so I can actually spend at least 5 minutes a day >figuring out how to obtain enough parts and break them down into something >workable. If a guy here in NJ can build an entire castle and property out of garbage and broken stuff, you should be able to handle some office furniture. -chris From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Fri Jun 21 19:04:20 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? References: <20020621185312.82640.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D13BF04.F9155908@compsys.to> Ethan Dicks wrote: > Not a case of want. If I needed, for example, to make a stack of > distro floppies from images for, say. a Pro-380, there aren't a lot > of options except writing real media. I was just curious if a real > RX50 did a better job than a Teac FD55GFR or not. I would expect > "not" given the construction qualities of both devices, but I thought > I would ask. Jerome Fine replies: And why bother. Is a Teac FD55GFR a 5 1/4" HD 1.2 MByte floppy? If so, it can probably be used as an RX33 with an RQDX3 on a real DEC PDP-11. I have no idea if it can be used on a PRO380. I would definitely NOT use an RX50 on a PeeCee!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > I haven't ever even hooked up my RX50. So far, TK50 & netboots have > > been sufficient. > Don't got a DECNA. :-( TK50 and ethernet would be OK for uVAX, though. > I'm thinking PDP-11 at this point. YES!! The PRO380 does not (as far as I know) have a controller for the TK50. And the PRO380 does NOT have a controller for the RX33 either!! Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jun 21 19:11:45 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? In-Reply-To: <3D13B9E5.9F0B20FE@compsys.to> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > It also allows RX33 emulation if that is useful. Note that the RX33 > on a real DEC PDP-11 must be used with an RQDX3. Neither > the RQDX1 nor the RQDX2 can handle the RX33. Or an RQZX1, at least one version of which allows an RX33 as one of its devices. Or so they tell me, but I haven't gotten around to plugging one in yet. Doc From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Fri Jun 21 19:25:26 2002 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: Bulk Tape Eraser / 486 Linux box problem SCSI In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020621202307.009e1d90@n.ml.org> lol, true Chris. Now, where to find enough circuit boards. The other question that has come to mind: how the hell do I clean off / smooth off the boards to make them flat enough to mount to a wall, etc without the nasty sharp solder hang-offs and chips, etc. hanging off and getting in the way.... -John At 07:57 PM 6/21/02, you wrote: > >Scary as that might be. Building > >a computer desk and office out of failed computer parts. Now, just to win > >the damned lottery so I can actually spend at least 5 minutes a day > >figuring out how to obtain enough parts and break them down into something > >workable. > >If a guy here in NJ can build an entire castle and property out of >garbage and broken stuff, you should be able to handle some office >furniture. > >-chris > ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 21 14:45:15 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? In-Reply-To: <20020621141505.11452.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jun 21, 2 07:15:05 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 7918 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020621/10196a48/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 21 19:15:30 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: Motorola zc93124cp In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E04139E82@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> from "Christopher Smith" at Jun 21, 2 10:27:08 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1883 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020622/6f96070a/attachment.ksh From geoffr at zipcon.net Fri Jun 21 20:10:23 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020621180939.0353e410@mail.zipcon.net> I know if they are RX-50's for the rainbow, RainDOS lets you read and write them on a IBM compatible with a 1.2MB 5 1/4" drive At 11:10 AM 6/21/02 +0100, you wrote: > >Primary goal is backup - TELEDISK should do that. Secondary goal is > >to produce image files suitable for use with simh and E-11. > >Backup implies an ability to restore, and, at least >for me, TELEDISK has problems doing that. On my system >(which at the time was a K6 233MHz machine) 3.5" >disks could be restored without issue but 5.25" >disks could not be reliably restored (this seemed >to apply to both 360KB and 1.2MB disks). I assume >that restoring RX50s will be no easier. > >It might just have been my system, it might just >have been my copy of TELEDISK (there seem to be >multiple copies floating around) but it did not >fill me with confidence. > >Is the TELEDISK format freely available? If not, >restoring your disks may be difficult once the >last PC has expired! > >BACKUP/PHYSICAL has the advantage that you can at >least work out where each block ends up (since the >BACKUP source listings are available). > >(If anyone has suggestions for "imaging" 360KB >floppies, 1.2MB floppies and RX50s using PC hardware >running Windows or Linux or NetBSD, I'm all ears. >Preference given to those with practical experience >of restoring the data afterwards ... I'm not keen >to run through several hundred floppies just on >the off-chance it will be worthwhile.) > >Antonio From msell at ontimesupport.com Fri Jun 21 20:20:06 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: Bulk Tape Eraser / 486 Linux box problem SCSI In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020621191602.00a28380@n.ml.org> References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A3D@yalepress3.unipre ss.yale.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020621201851.040ccde8@127.0.0.1> How about trying an older version of RedHat Linux? Maybe a version 5.x would get you going. I used to run RedHat 5.x on 486-class machines. Just a suggestion..... - Matt At 07:33 PM 6/21/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Now you two have really given me an idea. Scary as that might be. Building >a computer desk and office out of failed computer parts. Now, just to win >the damned lottery so I can actually spend at least 5 minutes a day >figuring out how to obtain enough parts and break them down into something >workable. Grin. > >On another note: > >This is on topic since ALL equipment except the replacement hard drive are >over 10 years old. >I have a 486x33Mhz with pure 30pin SIMMS (no 72 mix here) maxed out at >16MB (16 of these x 1MB), with EISA bus. I have an Adaptec 1740A SCSI >controller, a Trident ISA video card, a Creative Labs Sound Blaster ISA, a >DCA ISA / MCA Token Ring Adapter (obviously using the ISA), a 10Mbit ISA >NIC, Generic I/O card with floppy and IDE, 32x IDE CD-ROM and a Seagate >Elite 9 ST410800N 10/9GB SCSI drive (set to ID 0 since the 1740A insists >that you use ID 0 to boot the machine). I am trying to load Slackware 7.1 >on it. Problem: how do I get the damned install from floppy to see the >CD-ROM and see the hard drive properly? It goes to start the installer and >it comes up loading the initial install kernal with this error: >SCSI host found at (0) >Unable to load SCSI host (0) >Now, mind you, I can see and play with the damned drive in PC DOS 7, >booted from Floppy. Why not in Linux? I am removing hair at this point >since it took me 2 weeks to restore the system to a working state as it >is. Also, anyone know of a friggin GUI utility that allows you to still >use the keyboard (tab, space bar, etc) for drive partitioning and editing >to set up a Linux partition (possibly as a bootable util from a floppy?)? >Guessing in a command prompt really blows. The plan is to get it up as an >actual server on the broadband cable here so I can offer email and web >space in the future (trying to help friend of mine over at dhs.org unload >some of the users on his aging server and bring them up to date). >Any input will be greatly appreciated. >-John > >-John > >At 11:44 AM 6/19/02, you wrote: >> > From: Chris >> > >> > > Or a drink coaster. The circuit boards is good as a backer for a >> > >notepad. And use the cases for banks, letter holder, pen holder, etc... >> > >> > Humm... I have a few dead drives here... maybe I'll yank the boards, use >> > some small hinges, and make myself a note pad case (I've seen them for >> > sale before, but never with components on them) >> > >> > But I think if I start making all my office desk items from used computer >> > parts, then the staff here will REALLY think I have gone insane... then >> > again, maybe that will be a good thing, they'll stay out of my office >> > (barricading the door and covering the floor with electronic junk hasn't >> > stopped them... it just makes them trip when trying to come near my desk) >> > >> Well, the 3' x 5' Jolly Roger flag on my wall has slowed them down a >>bit. :) Not to mention that my "office" is really in the back of the printer >>room, I just used some 7' cabinets to form a wall, so my office is sort of >>"hidden". >> >>-- >>--- David A Woyciesjes >>--- C & IS Support Specialist >>--- Yale University Press >>--- (203) 432-0953 >>--- ICQ # - 905818 >>Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 >>Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash > >---------------------------------------- >Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst >and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies >http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html >--------------------------------------- Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020621/720fb145/attachment.html From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Fri Jun 21 21:14:05 2002 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: Bulk Tape Eraser / 486 Linux box problem SCSI In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020621201851.040ccde8@127.0.0.1> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020621191602.00a28380@n.ml.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020621221317.00a3aec0@n.ml.org> no way. red hat is too proprietary and such a pain in the ass. i like slackware because it is generic enough to actually allow almost anything linux, which is pretty much the point. -John At 09:20 PM 6/21/02, you wrote: >How about trying an older version of RedHat Linux? > >Maybe a version 5.x would get you going. > >I used to run RedHat 5.x on 486-class machines. > >Just a suggestion..... > > > - Matt > > >At 07:33 PM 6/21/2002 -0400, you wrote: >>Now you two have really given me an idea. Scary as that might be. >>Building a computer desk and office out of failed computer parts. Now, >>just to win the damned lottery so I can actually spend at least 5 minutes >>a day figuring out how to obtain enough parts and break them down into >>something workable. Grin. >> >>On another note: >> >>This is on topic since ALL equipment except the replacement hard drive >>are over 10 years old. >>I have a 486x33Mhz with pure 30pin SIMMS (no 72 mix here) maxed out at >>16MB (16 of these x 1MB), with EISA bus. I have an Adaptec 1740A SCSI >>controller, a Trident ISA video card, a Creative Labs Sound Blaster ISA, >>a DCA ISA / MCA Token Ring Adapter (obviously using the ISA), a 10Mbit >>ISA NIC, Generic I/O card with floppy and IDE, 32x IDE CD-ROM and a >>Seagate Elite 9 ST410800N 10/9GB SCSI drive (set to ID 0 since the 1740A >>insists that you use ID 0 to boot the machine). I am trying to load >>Slackware 7.1 on it. Problem: how do I get the damned install from floppy >>to see the CD-ROM and see the hard drive properly? It goes to start the >>installer and it comes up loading the initial install kernal with this error: >>SCSI host found at (0) >>Unable to load SCSI host (0) >>Now, mind you, I can see and play with the damned drive in PC DOS 7, >>booted from Floppy. Why not in Linux? I am removing hair at this point >>since it took me 2 weeks to restore the system to a working state as it >>is. Also, anyone know of a friggin GUI utility that allows you to still >>use the keyboard (tab, space bar, etc) for drive partitioning and editing >>to set up a Linux partition (possibly as a bootable util from a floppy?)? >>Guessing in a command prompt really blows. The plan is to get it up as an >>actual server on the broadband cable here so I can offer email and web >>space in the future (trying to help friend of mine over at dhs.org unload >>some of the users on his aging server and bring them up to date). >>Any input will be greatly appreciated. >>-John >> >>-John >> >>At 11:44 AM 6/19/02, you wrote: >>> > From: Chris >>> > >>> > > Or a drink coaster. The circuit boards is good as a backer for a >>> > >notepad. And use the cases for banks, letter holder, pen holder, etc... >>> > >>> > Humm... I have a few dead drives here... maybe I'll yank the boards, use >>> > some small hinges, and make myself a note pad case (I've seen them for >>> > sale before, but never with components on them) >>> > >>> > But I think if I start making all my office desk items from used computer >>> > parts, then the staff here will REALLY think I have gone insane... then >>> > again, maybe that will be a good thing, they'll stay out of my office >>> > (barricading the door and covering the floor with electronic junk hasn't >>> > stopped them... it just makes them trip when trying to come near my desk) >>> > >>> Well, the 3' x 5' Jolly Roger flag on my wall has slowed them >>> down a >>>bit. :) Not to mention that my "office" is really in the back of the printer >>>room, I just used some 7' cabinets to form a wall, so my office is sort of >>>"hidden". >>> >>>-- >>>--- David A Woyciesjes >>>--- C & IS Support Specialist >>>--- Yale University Press >>>--- (203) 432-0953 >>>--- ICQ # - 905818 >>>Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 >>>Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash >> >>---------------------------------------- >>Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst >>and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies >>http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html >>--------------------------------------- > > > >Matthew Sell >Programmer >On Time Support, Inc. >www.ontimesupport.com >(281) 296-6066 > >Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! >http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. > > >"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad >"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler > >Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Jun 21 21:43:43 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: Foxboro PCP-88 (PDP-8) In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020621100348.01b1c08c@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: > >Has anyone ever seen a PCP-88? I would assume it is functionally and > >physically equivalent to a DEC PDP-8? I came across a number of little embedded 12 bit dudes today - Fabritek PC12s. It is hard to tel, but these look like PDP-8 machines. basically, they are a two card sandwich (on side core, other side logic) built for a card cage, with an aluminum faceplate with a very simple "plain-Jane" switch register affair (12 bits, reset, halt, AC/PC/MD, deposit, etc.). Any ideas? Are these PDP-8 lookalikes? William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 21 22:23:24 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: Foxboro PCP-88 (PDP-8) In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Jun 21, 2002 10:43:43 PM Message-ID: <200206220323.g5M3NOk06493@shell1.aracnet.com> > I came across a number of little embedded 12 bit dudes today - Fabritek > PC12s. It is hard to tel, but these look like PDP-8 machines. basically, > they are a two card sandwich (on side core, other side logic) built for a > card cage, with an aluminum faceplate with a very simple "plain-Jane" > switch register affair (12 bits, reset, halt, AC/PC/MD, deposit, etc.). > > Any ideas? Are these PDP-8 lookalikes? > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > Is there an Intersil 6100 chip on there somewhere? That would indicate it's a PDP-8 clone. They should rather interesting! Zane From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Jun 21 22:33:59 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: Foxboro PCP-88 (PDP-8) In-Reply-To: <200206220323.g5M3NOk06493@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: > Is there an Intersil 6100 chip on there somewhere? That would indicate it's > a PDP-8 clone. They should rather interesting! I do not think it had one, but they were awfully hard to look at internally. They also had an early 1970s look about them. Could a user fool around with the AC and PC directly on an Intersil part (as with a switch register)? William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Jun 21 22:39:50 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: Weird RAM Message-ID: The other weirdness to pass my eye (but managed to get) is a small package of chips. These are "purple" DIPs, 16 or 18 pins (can't recall offhand), with two LCCCs piggybacked. This method of construction is common in very high end memory chips and military assemblies. The LCCCs are Mosteks, and some are clearly labelled MK4116 with 1980-ish datecodes. Memory, probably, the good 'ol 16K DRAM. But the weirdness...two DRAMs on a package is pretty weird (I suppose making a 32Kx 1 or 16K x 2), but these things have Apple logos. Huh? William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From donm at cts.com Fri Jun 21 22:40:45 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020621180939.0353e410@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Geoff Reed wrote: > I know if they are "MSDOS" RX-50's for the rainbow, RainDOS lets you ^^^^^ but not CP/M or other. > read and write them on a IBM compatible with a 1.2MB 5 1/4" drive > > > At 11:10 AM 6/21/02 +0100, you wrote: > > >Primary goal is backup - TELEDISK should do that. Secondary goal is > > >to produce image files suitable for use with simh and E-11. > > > >Backup implies an ability to restore, and, at least > >for me, TELEDISK has problems doing that. On my system > >(which at the time was a K6 233MHz machine) 3.5" > >disks could be restored without issue but 5.25" > >disks could not be reliably restored (this seemed > >to apply to both 360KB and 1.2MB disks). I assume > >that restoring RX50s will be no easier. > > > >It might just have been my system, it might just > >have been my copy of TELEDISK (there seem to be > >multiple copies floating around) but it did not > >fill me with confidence. > > > >Is the TELEDISK format freely available? If not, > >restoring your disks may be difficult once the > >last PC has expired! > > > >BACKUP/PHYSICAL has the advantage that you can at > >least work out where each block ends up (since the > >BACKUP source listings are available). > > > >(If anyone has suggestions for "imaging" 360KB > >floppies, 1.2MB floppies and RX50s using PC hardware > >running Windows or Linux or NetBSD, I'm all ears. > >Preference given to those with practical experience > >of restoring the data afterwards ... I'm not keen > >to run through several hundred floppies just on > >the off-chance it will be worthwhile.) > > > >Antonio > > From mythtech at mac.com Fri Jun 21 22:42:22 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: Bulk Tape Eraser / 486 Linux box problem SCSI Message-ID: >how the hell do I clean off / smooth off >the boards to make them flat enough to mount to a wall, etc without the >nasty sharp solder hang-offs and chips, etc. hanging off and getting in the >way.... I would leave all the stuff on. Adds to the whole look. -chris From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Jun 21 22:43:26 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: Foxboro PCP-88 (PDP-8) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I remember a time when William Donzelli had a hard time rousing enough > support to rescue some PDP-8a's. That was actually a joint Willing/Donzelli venture. It never happened, as the guy on the other end was a complete flake. Jim and I ditched when we found out a crane would need to be used to extract the machines from the building. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Fri Jun 21 22:53:25 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:34 2005 Subject: 8" floppy drive question (was New Finds) References: Message-ID: <3D13F4B5.2F72F8F0@compsys.to> >Pat Finnegan wrote: > Data Systems Design Model 880-D8. It has a DS Shugart 8" floppy drive in > it (which I intend to use to fix my Altos 8000) and a SA-1000 interface 8" > > It has a Shugart model 513 drive. How likely am I to be able to replace a > Shugart 801 drive with it? I know the 513 is DS and the 801 is SS, but > that shouldn't matter, right? It seems to want to conflict with the > other 513 drive in my ACS-8000, and also doesn't want to light up its > 'selected' LED at boot when I jumper it to DS0. Is there some sort > of jumpering on the drive I need to change to get it to work with the > ACS-8000, do I need to rewire the cable, or it it easier than it > seems? Does anyone have a pinout for the connector? Jerome Fine replies: The only floppy drive that I am familiar with from Data Systems Design was in the DSD 880/30 unit. This was for the Qbus and included a dual height card as the interface to the Qbus. Inside the box was an 8" hard drive and an 8" floppy drive. The floppy drive was RX02 compatible when used with the associated boards. In addition, the drive was able to sense and use double-sided media or what DEC would have called RX03. Note that for 8" floppy media (as opposed to 5 1/4" floppy media for which the single and double sided media were identical), the location of the index hole for single sided media was about an inch away from the location of the index hole for double sided media. Thus the jacket for single sided media had holes on each side in a location hat was very different (by the one inch shift) for double sided media. In addition, the double sided drives allowed both single sided and double sided operation - which meant that there were two light emitting diodes and two light sensors in addition to the second head which could read the second side. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Jun 21 22:58:22 2002 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Foxboro PCP-88 (PDP-8) Message-ID: Hmm... core and and a single-chip 12-bit microprocessor sounds pretty unlikely.. Plus, I'm fairly sure Fabritek made its own computers at one point in time, and I doubt they were clones of anything.. Then again, I can't say I've ever found any actual info on them, either. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 21 23:01:47 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Foxboro PCP-88 (PDP-8) In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Jun 21, 2002 11:33:59 PM Message-ID: <200206220401.g5M41l207577@shell1.aracnet.com> > > Is there an Intersil 6100 chip on there somewhere? That would indicate it's > > a PDP-8 clone. They should rather interesting! > > I do not think it had one, but they were awfully hard to look at > internally. They also had an early 1970s look about them. > > Could a user fool around with the AC and PC directly on an Intersil part > (as with a switch register)? > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org Here is what I found on the net a little bit ago at this webpage: http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/jbayko/cpu2.html Zane Part VI: Intersil 6100, old design in a new package . . . The IMS 6100 was a single chip design of the PDP-8 minicomputer (1965) from DEC (low cost successor to the PDP-5 (1963)). The old PDP-8 design was very strange, and if it hadn't been so popular, an awkward CPU like the 6100 would have never had a reason to exist. The 6100 was a 12 bit processor, which had exactly three registers - the PC, AC (an accumulator), and MQ. All 2 operand instructions read AC and MQ, and wrote back to AC. It had a 12 bit address bus, limiting RAM to only 4K. Memory references were 7 bit (128 word) offset either from address 0, or the PC. It had no stack. Subroutines stored the PC in the first word of the subroutine code itself, so recursion wasn't possible without fancy programming. 4K RAM was pretty much hopeless for general purpose use. The 6102 support chip (included on chip in the 6120) added 3 address lines, expanding memory to 32K the same way that the PDP-8/E expanded the PDP-8. Two registers, IFR and DFR, held the page for instructions and data respectively (IFR always used until a data address was detected). At the top of the 4K page, the PC wrapped back to 0, so the last instruction on a page had to load a new value into the IFR if execution was to continue. The PDP-8 itself was succeeded by the PDP-11 (though a version called the PDP-12 was produced, it was part of the PDP-8 series, not a replacement). The IMS 6120 was used in the DECmate (1980), DEC's original competition for the IBM PC, but lacked the processor and RAM capacity (a Z-80 or 8086 card could be added (reducing the 6120 to an I/O coprocessor) but lacked IBM PC compatability). DEC also tried competing with the 8086 based Rainbow, and the PDP-11 based PRO-325 personal computers, but none caught on. Intersil was eventually bought by Harris Semiconductors, which produces versions of the 8088 and 8086, 1802, and 68HC05. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Fri Jun 21 23:24:37 2002 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Weird RAM Message-ID: <20020621212145.G93321-100000@agora.rdrop.com> On Fri, 21 Jun 2002 23:39:50 -0400 (EDT) William Donzelli wrote: >The other weirdness to pass my eye (but managed to get) is a small >package of chips. These are "purple" DIPs, 16 or 18 pins (can't recall >offhand), with two LCCCs piggybacked. This method of construction is >common in very high end memory chips and military assemblies. The LCCCs >are Mosteks, and some are clearly labelled MK4116 with 1980-ish >datecodes. Memory, probably, the good 'ol 16K DRAM. >But the weirdness...two DRAMs on a package is pretty weird (I suppose >making a 32Kx 1 or 16K x 2), but these things have Apple logos. >Huh? IIRC: these were used for a 256k RAM upgrade on Apple III's. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Sat Jun 22 00:15:34 2002 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: new toy DG Nova 4X References: <200206212044.g5LKiMS23017@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <00a701c219ab$d9e0b700$0100a8c0@NEWHARE> ...plus any software and documentation they might have. Bruce www.NovasAreForever.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 2:44 PM Subject: Re: new toy DG Nova 4X > > the first unit. I did leave behind the hard drives (that may have been a > > mistake). Does anyone have info on these? > > I don't have any info, however, leaving the Hard Drives was almost > definitely a mistake! Now, get in your vehicle and go back and get them! > > Zane From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 20 19:38:14 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Computers in Public Xport In-Reply-To: <33101.64.220.165.152.1024531716.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Jun 19, 2 05:08:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 513 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020621/49b1adc0/attachment.ksh From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jun 22 00:43:09 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Bulk Tape Eraser / 486 Linux box problem SCSI In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020621191602.00a28380@n.ml.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, John Boffemmyer IV wrote: > on it. Problem: how do I get the damned install from floppy to see the > CD-ROM and see the hard drive properly? It goes to start the installer and > it comes up loading the initial install kernal with this error: > SCSI host found at (0) > Unable to load SCSI host (0) Sorry, missed this on the first pass. Which boot floppy are you using? IIRC, there are 2 or 3 boot images just for adaptec-family adapters. I also seem to recall that there was a specific EISA boot disk.... Yup. I just finally found a mirror with 7.1 still up: ftp://carroll.cac.psu.edu/pub/linux/distributions/slackware/ slackware-7.1/bootdsks.144/ Mind the linewrap - you want the "aha1740.s" image. Since PC-DOS sees the drive, it appears that the EISA is configured right. But remember that PC-DOS can see the HDD even without SCSI drivers. It's getting it from the BIOS. > anyone know of a friggin GUI utility that allows you to still use the > keyboard (tab, space bar, etc) for drive partitioning and editing to set up > a Linux partition (possibly as a bootable util from a floppy?)? Guessing in I like Linux fdisk better than any of the GUI utils out there. Big hint. Know the size of the drive, do a "p" as soon as you get into fdisk. Divide size/cylinders and write it down. Figure your partition layout in _cylinders_, not megs, and write all that down before doing anything else. Also remember that if you read the fdisk prompt _carefully_, it will literally lead you through the process. I know that all sounds very kindergarten and maybe condescending. The deal is, I teach Linux classes, and partitioning drives is one of the big hurdles. 99% of the time, when a student asks me what to do next, I quote directly what's onscreen, they get it, and they go on. And the "writing down the layout" thing is something I still do myself, after a few thousand installs. It's amazing how much it helps. Doc From spc at conman.org Sat Jun 22 00:50:53 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Bulk Tape Eraser / 486 Linux box problem SCSI In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020621191602.00a28380@n.ml.org> from "John Boffemmyer IV" at Jun 21, 2002 07:33:10 PM Message-ID: <200206220550.BAA22137@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great John Boffemmyer IV once stated: > > This is on topic since ALL equipment except the replacement hard drive are > over 10 years old. > I have a 486x33Mhz with pure 30pin SIMMS (no 72 mix here) maxed out at 16MB > (16 of these x 1MB), with EISA bus. I have an Adaptec 1740A SCSI > controller, a Trident ISA video card, a Creative Labs Sound Blaster ISA, a > DCA ISA / MCA Token Ring Adapter (obviously using the ISA), a 10Mbit ISA > NIC, Generic I/O card with floppy and IDE, 32x IDE CD-ROM and a Seagate > Elite 9 ST410800N 10/9GB SCSI drive (set to ID 0 since the 1740A insists > that you use ID 0 to boot the machine). I am trying to load Slackware 7.1 > on it. Problem: how do I get the damned install from floppy to see the > CD-ROM and see the hard drive properly? It goes to start the installer and > it comes up loading the initial install kernal with this error: > SCSI host found at (0) > Unable to load SCSI host (0) > Now, mind you, I can see and play with the damned drive in PC DOS 7, booted > from Floppy. Why not in Linux? I am removing hair at this point since it > took me 2 weeks to restore the system to a working state as it is. Also, > anyone know of a friggin GUI utility that allows you to still use the > keyboard (tab, space bar, etc) for drive partitioning and editing to set up > a Linux partition (possibly as a bootable util from a floppy?)? Guessing in > a command prompt really blows. The plan is to get it up as an actual server > on the broadband cable here so I can offer email and web space in the > future (trying to help friend of mine over at dhs.org unload some of the > users on his aging server and bring them up to date). > Any input will be greatly appreciated. As someone said later on, try an older version of RedHat. 5.2 is good, as I've successfully used that on a variety of older machines [1], and you can secure them down to they are less vulnerable, but if you do that, then you'll either have to install the development system with everything else, or have another box with the same version of Linux [2] to install updated programs like Apache and/or Bind. As for your problems, first, I would remove all but the required cards (drop the sound blaster and token ring). Second, make sure the kernel you are booting to do the install has the proper SCSI drivers in it. RedHat is pretty good about this, but if I remember my Slackware (way back in '93 or '94) you had to select the proper boot disk to match your hardware. I know the later RedHat installations default to something other than fdisk, but it is still available if you prefer it (fdisk is an option under RedHat 5 and 6, but for later versions I'm not sure, not having installed RedHat 6.2 or higher). Also, for older machines, I find the following partitioning scheme (if you are going for Linux-only boot with RedHat) to work wonders: Partition 1: 5M mount as /boot Partition 2: twice physical ram, swap upto 128M max Partition 3: rest of disk mount as / /boot contains the actual kernel and since older BIOSes have problems loading past 500M or so, this ensures that the kernel will reside on space that the BIOS can see (which lilo uses to load the kernel). If you use something other than RedHat, then you might want to try something like: Partition 1: 200M mount as / Partition 2: twice physical ram swap upto 128M ram Partition 3: half remaining space mount as /usr Partition 4: half remaining space mount as /home or for a server configuration, replace the last partition with /var (for log files and spool directories). -spc (Hope this helps some ) [1] My colocated machine is a 32MHz 486SX running Linux 2.0.39 (basically a base RedHat 5.2) running Apache and Sendmail and no development system), my firewall is a 66MHz 486DX [3] with Linux 2.0.39 (again, a base RedHat 5.2 install with no development system) and my primary machine is a 120MHz AMD 5x86 (Linux sees it as a 486) running Linux 2.0.36 (custom RedHat 5.2 install, with development system). I also managed to get a bastardized version of RedHat 5.2 installed on a system with only 4M RAM and 120M harddrive (seeing how the RedHat 5.2 installer wanted 16M RAM and something like a 200M harddrive to even *think* of installing), but it isn't for the faint of heart (although if anyone wants the gory details, I'll be more than willing to share 8-) [2] I tend not to keep development systems on full production servers, preferring to do my development on a dedicated development machine. If a server is compromised, it makes it all that much more difficult for the script kiddies to further do damage if they can't compile their root kits on the server. And while you can probably get by with developing under, say, RedHat 6.2 for deployment on a RedHat 7.2 box, you do need to keep in mind the differences and what not, so I find it easier to make sure the servers and development boxes are as close as possible to being the same. [3] Why not use my firewall as my colocated server? Um ... well, I got the colocated server before I aquired my firewall machine, and secondly, the firewall machine is a Compaq, and Compaqs are well ... unique ... and are sometimes quite painful to get Linux to run on them. From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jun 22 00:55:32 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Holy Smokes!!! Message-ID: I thought I might bid on it... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2032305295 Doc From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Sat Jun 22 00:57:48 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Holy Smokes!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001a01c219b1$bd1b8b80$023ca8c0@blafleur> Yes, I was watching that one... I was quite surprised. I've seen several MicroVAX and VAXstations 3100 and 4000 models go for quite high prices. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Doc Shipley Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002 1:56 AM To: Classic Computers Subject: Holy Smokes!!! I thought I might bid on it... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2032305295 Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jun 22 01:12:44 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Bulk Tape Eraser / 486 Linux box problem SCSI In-Reply-To: <200206220550.BAA22137@conman.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Jun 2002, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > As for your problems, first, I would remove all but the required cards > (drop the sound blaster and token ring). Second, make sure the kernel you > are booting to do the install has the proper SCSI drivers in it. RedHat is > pretty good about this, but if I remember my Slackware (way back in '93 or > '94) you had to select the proper boot disk to match your hardware. I'm pretty sure RH 5.2 needed the driver disk (supplemental?) for EISA bus adapters. Slack, in that era, was the most versatile by far with weird hardware mixes, mostly _because_ of all those boot floppies. > I know the later RedHat installations default to something other than > fdisk, but it is still available if you prefer it (fdisk is an option under > RedHat 5 and 6, but for later versions I'm not sure, not having installed > RedHat 6.2 or higher). Still there. And Disk Druid, the GUI thingie, is getting worse, not better. > Partition 1: 5M mount as /boot > Partition 2: twice physical ram, swap > upto 128M max > Partition 3: rest of disk mount as / > > /boot contains the actual kernel and since older BIOSes have problems > loading past 500M or so, this ensures that the kernel will reside on space > that the BIOS can see (which lilo uses to load the kernel). Slackware puts the kernel in the root directory. I tend to make a /boot partition anyway, move the kernel there, and reinvent LILO to match. Kernels >v2.2 will use a swap partition up to 2G. And if he's serving email, I'd surely put /var on its own partition. Running out of file blocks on the / partition is a wonder to behold. Running out of inodes is even worse. > [3] Why not use my firewall as my colocated server? Um ... well, I got > the colocated server before I aquired my firewall machine, and > secondly, the firewall machine is a Compaq, and Compaqs are well ... > unique ... and are sometimes quite painful to get Linux to run on > them. You can say that again, twice. :^) Doc From geoffr at zipcon.net Sat Jun 22 01:43:19 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Vaxstation 3100 In-Reply-To: <001a01c219b1$bd1b8b80$023ca8c0@blafleur> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020621234254.00a8f0f0@mail.zipcon.net> So what OS will run on a vaxstation 3100? From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jun 22 01:29:27 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Holy Smokes!!! In-Reply-To: <001a01c219b1$bd1b8b80$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Jun 2002, Bob Lafleur wrote: > Yes, I was watching that one... I was quite surprised. > > I've seen several MicroVAX and VAXstations 3100 and 4000 models go for > quite high prices. Makes me tempted to sell one of my MicroVAX 3100-80s. Not! Well, I'll admit I splurged on not one, but two VS3100s this week, from 2 sources. The one I picked up here was $10, an m38 with color board, RZ23, and memory board & daughterboard. But it's really a KA42-A an m30 CPU, and only 16M RAM. Darn. Nothing on the drive either. The other was more than I've ever paid for a 3100 - $15 + shipping. Damn near $45 all together. But I got a mouse, 2 keyboards, and display cable with it. Even better, it has 24M RAM and Ultrix installed!! Yay, finally. Ultrix. The Ultrix thing, the fact that the seller isn't a VAX guy, and the 24M of ram make me wonder if it isn't really a pmax - a DECstation 3100. Which would be almost as cool. I also never asked, because I kinda like the suspense, and it should arrive right on my birthday - given that it was decommissioned only a year ago, maybe it's an m76? Oh, be still my beating heart! Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jun 22 01:35:45 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Vaxstation 3100 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020621234254.00a8f0f0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Geoff Reed wrote: > So what OS will run on a vaxstation 3100? VMS, NetBSD, supposedly Ultrix, though nobody's ever seen it on a 3100. I'll tell you next week. I think there's a Linux kernel booting on it, but not much more than just booting. NetBSD is pretty capable, very stable, and very slow. OpenVMS is very capable, very stable, and even slower. I have one running NetBSD, and thought about putting it up as my webserver. May yet do it. I don't think any of the BSD4.x's or 2.xxBSD from PUPS will run on it. Doc From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Jun 22 02:40:16 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Weird RAM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33094.64.169.63.74.1024731616.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > But the weirdness...two DRAMs on a package is pretty weird (I suppose > making a 32Kx 1 or 16K x 2), but these things have Apple logos. > > Huh? Apple used those in the Apple ///. The 128K RAM card had three rows of sixteen RAM chips. Even though it used an 8-bit processor (6502), they did 16-bit memory accesses for video. To get 128K, two rows used normal 16K DRAMs, and one row used the hybrid 32K parts. IIRC, the data in and data out lines are tied together, the chips are effectively 32Kx1, with separate RAS# and CAS# strobes for the two chips. Perhaps Fabritek happened to design a memory board for the same parts, and someone upgraded the machine using chips salvaged from an Apple ///. There was another form of double DRAM packaging, in which two DIP-packaged parts are stacked. The leads of the top part are bonded to those of the bottom part; I'm not sure how but it didn't look like a solder joint. Note that the top and bottom parts are actually bonded out differently - they are not interchangeable with each other nor with standard DIP DRAMs. These were seen in some XT-class PCs. From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Jun 22 02:41:23 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Weird RAM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33095.64.169.63.74.1024731683.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > The other weirdness to pass my eye (but managed to get) is a small Guess I read too much into that, you didn't say they were part of the Fabritek but somehow I jumped to that conclusion. Probably they were just salvaged from an Apple ///. From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Jun 22 03:03:32 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Computers in Public Xport In-Reply-To: References: <33101.64.220.165.152.1024531716.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Jun 19, 2 05:08:36 pm Message-ID: <33131.64.169.63.74.1024733012.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> I wrote: >> It is. It's not uncommon for a fully loaded one to weigh over 250 kg. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > And you think I don't :-) :-)... > > Anyway, the original comment was over the height IIRC. Given that the > H960 is what I thoguth it was, I will carry on claiming to be the same > size as one (in all directions). OK, I'll take your word for that. Just because this made me curious, I looked up the specs on the H960. The H960 is a family of racks that can vary quite a bit based on the suffix. The individual components that make up an H960 have H95x-xx part numbers. The basic rack frame is an H950-AA. It has the four EIA-drilled vertical rails, the base with casters, and the top with provision for two fans. It does not include doors, side panels, mounting frames, stabilizers, logo panels, blank panels, kick plates, fans, power controllers, etc. The H950-AA weighs 78.5 kg. H950-BA or -CA full-height doors weigh 13.6 kg each. H952-AA side panels weigh 14.5 kg each. And don't forget the H950-LA or -LB logo panels at 0.68 kg or 0.11 kg, respectively. :-) Of course, there's lots of other options including hinged mounting frames. So an "empty" H960 would weigh more depending on what other hardware is attached. The H960 is rated for up to 272 kg of load. So a full H960 with panels and doors could potentially weigh more than 407 kg. And I'm pretty sure I've seen some that were well over the rated capacity, but naturally that's unsupported. (In more than one sense, if your floor isn't sufficiently robust!) At my last place of employment, we built really huge routers. Our only competitor that had a product somewhat comparable to ours (and no, it wasn't Cisco or Juniper) somehow managed to make their box so heavy that it exceeded the NEBS standard for floor loading. They had to reinforce the floor at their field test sites. Fortunately our product was within the NEBS limits. From meltie at myrealbox.com Sat Jun 22 04:18:08 2002 From: meltie at myrealbox.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Vaxstation 3100 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1024737491.2722.1.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> On Sat, 2002-06-22 at 07:35, Doc wrote: > On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Geoff Reed wrote: > > > So what OS will run on a vaxstation 3100? > > VMS, NetBSD, supposedly Ultrix, though nobody's ever seen it on a > 3100. I'll tell you next week. I think there's a Linux kernel booting > on it, but not much more than just booting. They had linux up on it in single user mode at least 18 months ago now, i'm sure they've progressed further. Get on the mailing list if you're interested... Alex -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Sat Jun 22 06:42:59 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Computers in Public Xport Message-ID: >At my last place of employment, we built really huge routers. Our >only competitor that had a product somewhat comparable to ours (and no, >it wasn't Cisco or Juniper) somehow managed to make their box so heavy >that it exceeded the NEBS standard for floor loading. They had to >reinforce the floor at their field test sites. Fortunately our product I guess that competitor must have been Avici then? I wonder how soon these high-end routers will start to fall into hobbyist hands .... Antonio From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jun 22 08:33:56 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? In-Reply-To: <3D13BF04.F9155908@compsys.to> Message-ID: <20020622133356.56467.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Jerome H. Fine" wrote: > And why bother. Is a Teac FD55GFR a 5 1/4" HD 1.2 MByte floppy? Yes. > If so, it can probably be used as an RX33 with an RQDX3 on a real > DEC PDP-11. It is, AFAIK, _the_ model DEC used as the RX33, with the jumpers moved around from PeeCee use. > I would definitely NOT use an RX50 on a PeeCee!!!!!!!!!!!!! So I've heard from multiple people, but I'm still looking for a factual reason, not an emotional one. One reason to do it, at least from an "interesting hardware" standpoint, would be for quicker duplication of RX50s - put the source in one, the dest in another and go. The problem, of course, is that the PeeCee controller and/or software (E-11, RX50DRVR, etc.), might not expect such a strange beast and not do the right thing. Obviously, putting two FD55GFRs in the same PeeCee could accomplish much the same thing. I'll have to go back and find my configuration instructions - I think the two drives I have were strapped for RX33 use. They are *not* working in my PeeCee, but I _did_ find a 3.5"/5.25" combo drive that worked. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From hofmanwb at worldonline.nl Fri Jun 21 16:33:11 2002 From: hofmanwb at worldonline.nl (W.B.(Wim) Hofman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? References: <20020621141505.11452.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001401c219f2$6c73bea0$96e9f1c3@cx> Ethan, John M.B.Wilson, creator of the Ersatz-11 PDP11 emulator wrote a program fdcdemo that one can use use to create and duplicate RX50 floppies on a 1.2 Mb drive using low density (360 kb) floppy disks. The program was available on his site. Mind, you need a proper floppy disk controller with more than one crystal but this is explained in the documentation of the program. Wim Hofman ----- Original Message ----- From: Ethan Dicks To: Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 4:15 PM Subject: RE: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? > > --- Pat Finnegan wrote: > > On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > (If anyone has suggestions for "imaging" 360KB > > > floppies, 1.2MB floppies and RX50s using PC hardware > > > running Windows or Linux or NetBSD, I'm all ears. > > > > 1) If it's a true 360K or 1200K 5.25" disk or 720K or 1440K 3.5" disk, > > you can just type 'dd if=/dev/fd0 of=disk.img' and get a copy of it... > > The problem is that for DEC RX50s, they are _not_ 360K or 1200K 5.25" > disks... they are single-sided, 10-sectors of 512 bytes per track, 80 > tracks. They can be read in an ordinary PC high-density drive, but > they aren't the usual Windoze format. If they were, I'd just use 'dd' > as you suggest. > > So... again... who here knows how to make 400KB images from real RX50s > that emulators will like? I have a wad of Ultrix 32m and MicroVMS > diskettes I'd like to spool off, in addition to a small quantity of > RT-11. > > If I have to go with DEC hardware, I can; it will just take a lot longer > to do. > > -ethan > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com > From at258 at osfn.org Sat Jun 22 08:44:55 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In case anyone is interested, the Harvard Cyclotron (1947) is being dismantled. A shame it isn't being preserved in its entirety, although it is a bit of a heavy biscuit. M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From uban at ubanproductions.com Sat Jun 22 09:08:23 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Harvard Cyclotron In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020622090823.009ae9a0@ubanproductions.com> Did they run that with a classic machine like a DEC PDP-? The accelerator at Purdue University used to have a PDP-9 (I think) attached to it... --tom At 09:44 AM 6/22/02 -0400, you wrote: >In case anyone is interested, the Harvard Cyclotron (1947) is being >dismantled. A shame it isn't being preserved in its entirety, although >it is a bit of a heavy biscuit. > >M. K. Peirce > >Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. >Shady Lea, Rhode Island > >"Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid > > > From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sat Jun 22 09:11:17 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? References: <20020622133356.56467.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D148584.E486A78A@compsys.to> >Ethan Dicks wrote: > > "Jerome H. Fine" wrote: > > And why bother. Is a Teac FD55GFR a 5 1/4" HD 1.2 MByte floppy? > Yes. > > If so, it can probably be used as an RX33 with an RQDX3 on a real > > DEC PDP-11. > It is, AFAIK, _the_ model DEC used as the RX33, with the jumpers moved > around from PeeCee use. Jerome Fine replies: I thought the model number sounded familiar. I received a few 5 1/4" HD 1.2 MByte floppy drives recently, but have had no time to check them out. I think that at least one is the FD55GFR. I also have two of the RX33 (actually labeled as such by DEC) inside the shell of an RX50 (vacated since the RX50 was bad). A Y power connector and a 34 pin cable with two edge connectors at one end allows BOTH to be easily connected to an RQDX3. Initially at first glance, it looks like an RX50, but closer examination shows the handles for HD drives rather than the shutters for an RX50. > > I would definitely NOT use an RX50 on a PeeCee!!!!!!!!!!!!! > So I've heard from multiple people, but I'm still looking for a > factual reason, not an emotional one. One reason to do it, at > least from an "interesting hardware" standpoint, would be for quicker > duplication of RX50s - put the source in one, the dest in another > and go. The problem, of course, is that the PeeCee controller and/or > software (E-11, RX50DRVR, etc.), might not expect such a strange beast > and not do the right thing. That is the obvious reason. But for myself, I am NOT very interested in hardware as such. So anything that works is the best and only solution. I have enough software bugs and enhancements to keep me busy for a couple of decades. > Obviously, putting two FD55GFRs in the same PeeCee could accomplish > much the same thing. I'll have to go back and find my configuration > instructions - I think the two drives I have were strapped for RX33 > use. They are *not* working in my PeeCee, but I _did_ find a 3.5"/5.25" > combo drive that worked. Since I use BINCOM 99.9% of the time to make sure that every image that I copy from an RX50 (or any blocks at all for that matter) has been copied correctly, there is not much reason to have two drives. It takes just about the same time to copy an RX50 image to a temporary location and then back to a second media as it takes to do the copy using two floppy drives. When I include the BINCOM as well, the time is almost doubled (almost since my version of BINCOM is usually able to do a compare faster than the COPY - I use very large 96 block buffers and I also double buffer - reading into the next buffers while I compare the current buffers). It takes 152 KBytes of extended memory under the RT11XM monitor, but the result is work while. The only time it is a problem is when I must keep the buffers in the 18 bit address area for an 18 bit device and that memory is already being used. I fixed the DYX.SYS device driver to use a bounce buffer, but others have not yet been fixed. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From pcw at mesanet.com Sat Jun 22 10:23:19 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Vaxstation 3100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Jun 2002, Doc wrote: > On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Geoff Reed wrote: > > > So what OS will run on a vaxstation 3100? > > VMS, NetBSD, supposedly Ultrix, though nobody's ever seen it on a > 3100. I'll tell you next week. I think there's a Linux kernel booting > on it, but not much more than just booting. I had a VS3100/38 running Ultrix (4.2A) on my desk, being a Xterm for years... Finally replaced it with a DS5000/133 running NetBSD and then a Envisex Xterm. Still have that 3100/38 (I probably have about 5 VS3100/38s). I remember the compiler that came with Ultrix was almost useless, so I had to compile GCC to be able to use any generic source code. That took a while... I also remember running some of the ancient old Berkely stuff on it like Franz Lisp. I think the VS3100/3X4X was the last VAXstation to be able to run Ultrix (the 3100/76 never did) I guess after the MIPS based DECstations came out, it was a little silly to run Ultrix on a VAXstation since you got so much more bang/buck with the MIPS... So if you want a copy of the VS3100/38's system disk (540M Quantum IIRC) I can dd it to another 540... I _may_ have a VAX Ultrix CD, I do have Ultrix 4.2 and 4.3A (and OSF1) sources. The Ultrix sources have code for both VAX and MIPS. > > NetBSD is pretty capable, very stable, and very slow. OpenVMS is very > capable, very stable, and even slower. I have one running NetBSD, and > thought about putting it up as my webserver. May yet do it. > > I don't think any of the BSD4.x's or 2.xxBSD from PUPS will run on it. > > Doc > > Peter Wallace From vaxman at earthlink.net Sat Jun 22 10:41:30 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Holy Smokes!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Doc, Those of us that are too lazy to cut the URL into netscape would appreciate the title too... Thanks, Clint On Sat, 22 Jun 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > > I thought I might bid on it... > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2032305295 > > Doc > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 22 11:07:46 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Weird RAM References: Message-ID: <002501c21a06$f30aea60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've got a substantial number of these, if anybody wants 'em. They're 18-pins, BTW, and were customed up for the Apple-III. I've got a memory board that uses 'em, but never got around to doing anything with it. However, that's how I learned where the rather odd DRAMs went. There are two rows of these guys on the board, together with a corresponding row of the 16Kx1 parts. IIRC, the rows are two-byte-wide rows. The board's clearly marked Apple-III, but in order to fit the intended application, I removed the connector which fits a pair of single-in-line rows of pins onto which the board plugs, probably toward the front of the main board. I've never looked at an Apple-III, so I can't comment on its role with respect to system function, i.e. it may be an expansion board, or perhaps not. These parts are normal parts, just as labelled, but have extra nRAS and nCAS signals with which to control the second chip on each substrate. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Donzelli" To: Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 9:39 PM Subject: Weird RAM > The other weirdness to pass my eye (but managed to get) is a small > package of chips. These are "purple" DIPs, 16 or 18 pins (can't recall > offhand), with two LCCCs piggybacked. This method of construction is > common in very high end memory chips and military assemblies. The LCCCs > are Mosteks, and some are clearly labelled MK4116 with 1980-ish datecodes. > Memory, probably, the good 'ol 16K DRAM. > > But the weirdness...two DRAMs on a package is pretty weird (I suppose > making a 32Kx 1 or 16K x 2), but these things have Apple logos. > > Huh? > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jun 22 11:20:34 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Vaxstation 3100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Jun 2002, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > I had a VS3100/38 running Ultrix (4.2A) on my desk, being a Xterm for > years... Finally replaced it with a DS5000/133 running NetBSD and then a > Envisex Xterm. Still have that 3100/38 (I probably have about 5 VS3100/38s). and... > So if you want a copy of the VS3100/38's system disk (540M Quantum > IIRC) I can dd it to another 540... > > I _may_ have a VAX Ultrix CD, I do have Ultrix 4.2 and 4.3A > (and OSF1) sources. The Ultrix sources have code for both VAX and MIPS. I should have guessed. You always have everything DEC.... Did you get a total for shipping those cables yet? Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jun 22 11:24:30 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Holy Smokes!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Jun 2002, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > Hi Doc, > > Those of us that are too lazy to cut the URL into netscape > would appreciate the title too... Sorry. I hate it when anybody else does that. Digital DEC Vax VaxStation 4000 & 20" monitor was a 4000/90 w/ 80MB, VRT19-HA and a QIC tape drive. Went for $501 Ouch. Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jun 22 11:41:15 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Jun 2002, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > In case anyone is interested, the Harvard Cyclotron (1947) is being > dismantled. A shame it isn't being preserved in its entirety, although > it is a bit of a heavy biscuit. Mmmmm, biscuit!! Doc From zmerch at 30below.com Sat Jun 22 12:07:59 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Vaxstation 3100 In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020621234254.00a8f0f0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020622130559.02a78808@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Doc may have mentioned these words: >On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Geoff Reed wrote: > > > So what OS will run on a vaxstation 3100? > > VMS, NetBSD, supposedly Ultrix, though nobody's ever seen it on a >3100. Huh? I've had it installed & running - it's a very easy (but slow) install, but unforch, it's rather pokey, which is why I figgered I'd take a crack at VMS (a few years ago...) I've got the full distribution disks for it... -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jun 22 12:22:25 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Vaxstation 3100 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020622130559.02a78808@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Jun 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: > > VMS, NetBSD, supposedly Ultrix, though nobody's ever seen it on a > >3100. > > Huh? I've had it installed & running - it's a very easy (but slow) install, > but unforch, it's rather pokey, which is why I figgered I'd take a crack at > VMS (a few years ago...) OK, OK, it was hyperbole.... In fact the VS3100 I just bought is supposed to be running Ultrix. It _is_ very hard to find. Especially with enough PAKs to make it useful. Doc From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 22 12:47:07 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: OT: old Matsonic MS-5015-S Motherboard Manual References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020621234254.00a8f0f0@mail.zipcon.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20020622130559.02a78808@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <000701c21a14$eaf6b4e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Has anybody got the PDF of the manual for this Matsonic old-timer? I've mislaid my CD that came with it way back when, and the Matsonic website seems to be impenetrable. I'm looking for the USB connector pinouts since I have to reconfigure an adapter ... They sent me a manual, but I suspect the manual and the CD are in the same box ... somewhere ... thanx, Dick From glinder at ews.uiuc.edu Sat Jun 22 12:51:03 2002 From: glinder at ews.uiuc.edu (Greg Linder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Speaking of IBM, Schematics for a ps/2 P70 power supply?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I liberated a plasma display ps/2 p70 from a friends garage- It does the typical power supply thing where it comes up for a bit, and then konks out. I took it out of the machine, and have pretty much made sure the power supply is broken- I have tried loading the DC outputs with my bench load IDE drive, and it comes up and goes down again, unless it is expecting a load on the plasma screen power connector. I am a power supply newby. The supply only turns on long enough to get the fan to go about 1/2 rotation, and the dies again. This gets kind of tricky because I have never managed to fix a power supply, ever, I usually just find a spare from the bin and pop it in. However, I don't have a spare that will do whatever voltages the plasma display requires, nor do I have a supply that is even close to this form factor. It appears from my probing that at least the filter caps are good- I am getting a pretty stable ~160 volts DC across two separate large filter caps, which seems a bit big, but I have not learned enough analog to have a clue how this supply does what it does. Thanks for any assistance, Greg Linder From enrico.badella at softstar.it Sat Jun 22 13:00:13 2002 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Holy Smokes!!! References: Message-ID: <3D14BB2D.697A5C42@softstar.it> Doc Shipley wrote: > > I thought I might bid on it... > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2032305295 looks like a hefty price... last month I was ask to pick up 3 4000/60 all with 32MB RAM for nothing (ok they had no video and are not a 90) e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From jhellige at EARTHLINK.NET Fri Jun 21 11:08:58 2002 From: jhellige at EARTHLINK.NET (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Cool IIgs find In-Reply-To: <006801c2193a$d9149ec0$83000240@default> References: <006801c2193a$d9149ec0$83000240@default> Message-ID: <02Jun22.145857edt.119067@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >At local thrift last night I got a Apple IIgs that had a ELINA fan and >20 meg harddrive combo mounted were the normal power supply goes. Also >inside was a AE TRANSWARP GS card, AE VULCAN controller card for the HD, >and a AE RAMKEEPER card with 2 Apple ram cards mounted to it. There was >a dryfit A200 ext battery Sonnenscheen with it also that works with the >Ram card? The cables, mouse, and keyboard also came with it and all or >$12.21. I will have to go down to the shop and get a monitor to test it >with. That's quite an excellent deal since both the Transwarp and Vulcan setups tend to fetch a bit of money from IIGS enthusiasts still. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jun 22 12:35:30 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Holy Smokes!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I thought I might bid on it... > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2032305295 > > Doc Why would anyone pay that much? For $501 you can get yourself a very nice Alpha. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jun 22 14:44:36 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Holy Smokes!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Jun 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >I thought I might bid on it... > > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2032305295 > > > > Doc > > Why would anyone pay that much? For $501 you can get yourself a very nice > Alpha. For $500 I could have bought my 500au twice. And to tell the truth, though that VRT19 is nice, for _just_ what shipping it would cost, I can get a much better, newer compatible display. I think it comes down to bragging rights, in the end.... Doc From at258 at osfn.org Sat Jun 22 19:07:04 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Harvard Cyclotron In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20020622090823.009ae9a0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: There was a DG Eclipse somewhere in the mix, and a PDP-11 or two, I think. On Sat, 22 Jun 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > Did they run that with a classic machine like a DEC PDP-? The accelerator > at Purdue University used to have a PDP-9 (I think) attached to it... > > --tom > > At 09:44 AM 6/22/02 -0400, you wrote: > >In case anyone is interested, the Harvard Cyclotron (1947) is being > >dismantled. A shame it isn't being preserved in its entirety, although > >it is a bit of a heavy biscuit. > > > >M. K. Peirce > > > >Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > >Shady Lea, Rhode Island > > > >"Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > > > - Ovid > > > > > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jun 22 19:13:53 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Holy Smokes!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Sat, 22 Jun 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: >> Why would anyone pay that much? For $501 you can get yourself a very >> nice Alpha. > > For $500 I could have bought my 500au twice. And to tell the truth, >though that VRT19 is nice, for _just_ what shipping it would cost, I can >get a much better, newer compatible display. Sounds like you got a great deal on your 500au! > I think it comes down to bragging rights, in the end.... > > Doc Either that or a lack of research on the buyers part. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 22 19:55:22 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? References: Message-ID: <000d01c21a50$a7e67780$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I just picked up a PC at the local thrift store. It has a board that's a half-height ISA card with the designation SCB5 Junior. It's got a mini-din at the backpanel, though it's definitely not the keyed sort used by a mouse or keyboard. I've got to admit, I'm puzzled. The PC, BTW, was a 150 MHz Packard Bell "Platinum" with a 5 GB WD drive and a 56x CDROM, along with the "usual" sound and modem boards and the usual built-ins. It had no keyboard or mouse, and therefore cost only $1.99. I've already established that the drives work, and the machine, which has 48MB of 72-pin DRAM, also seems to run without a hitch. Unfortunately, the OS will have to be reinstalled, since it was passworded. I snagged a similar one last week, with a 1.6GB HDD and an 8x CDROM, but it has a TV card that I'd like to make work if it's possible. Anybody have any experience with this Packard Bell stuff? Dick From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 22 19:59:31 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Found some stuff, interesting, perhaps but not to me ... References: Message-ID: <002801c21a51$3e77b1a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> While looking around for "stuff" at the thrift stores, I ran into a couple of items that may interest someone. One was an Appllo 700-series pizza-box-thick box with no keyboard or monitor, but obviously an ethernet port and other conventional hookups. The other was a Mac ColorClassic. I mention these only because someone has mentioned them before. There was no price on the Mac, but the Apollo box was $5. If anybody wants this stuff badly enough to pay freight (via USPS) I'll try to get it and ship it to you for cost. Dick From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Jun 22 21:06:55 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? In-Reply-To: <000d01c21a50$a7e67780$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Jun 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I just picked up a PC at the local thrift store. It has a board > that's a half-height ISA card with the designation SCB5 Junior. It's > got a mini-din at the backpanel, though it's definitely not the keyed > sort used by a mouse or keyboard. I've got to admit, I'm puzzled. It might be for a bus-mouse, often those use 9 pin connectors. I've seen older UPS controller boards that also meet this description. I have one somewhere made by APC, but I can't remember how many pins the mini-din it uses has. Based on your description, I'd guess your card is indeed for a bus-mouse. Typically those have a jumper or dip switch to set the card to one of 4 I/O addresses, and some also have an IRQ jumper. > The PC, BTW, was a 150 MHz Packard Bell "Platinum" with a 5 GB WD > drive and a 56x CDROM, along with the "usual" sound and modem boards > and the usual built-ins. It had no keyboard or mouse, and therefore > cost only $1.99. I've already established that the drives work, and > the machine, which has 48MB of 72-pin DRAM, also seems to run without > a hitch. Unfortunately, the OS will have to be reinstalled, since it > was passworded. Delete the *.pwl files in the 'windows' directory? Tried 'ESC' when it asks for a password? You might need to use the policy editor (found on the installation cd) to change some of the settings once you get past the password prompt. (Before anyone asks, I don't like or even use windows for my day to day machines, but I did admin large numbers of systems that were running it in the past...) > I snagged a similar one last week, with a 1.6GB HDD and an 8x CDROM, > but it has a TV card that I'd like to make work if it's possible. > Anybody have any experience with this Packard Bell stuff? Based on my experiences with Packard Bell, they made systems best avoided for important tasks. Their systems are fine if you want a box to tinker with, but you might find yourself fixing lots of silly problems caused by careless designers or assemblers. IIRC, NEC owns the Packard Bell brand now, but I have no idea of they are still using it. -Toth From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sat Jun 22 21:06:27 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? References: <20020621141505.11452.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> <001401c219f2$6c73bea0$96e9f1c3@cx> Message-ID: <3D152D23.7BE57809@compsys.to> >"W.B.(Wim) Hofman" wrote: > Ethan, > John M.B.Wilson, creator of the Ersatz-11 PDP11 emulator wrote a program > fdcdemo that one can use use to create and duplicate RX50 floppies > on a 1.2 Mb drive using low density (360 kb) floppy disks. The program was > available on his site. Mind, you need a proper floppy disk controller with > more than one crystal but this is explained in the documentation of the > program. > Wim Hofman Jerome Fine replies: Normally when I wish to create (Low Level Format) an RX50 floppy, I use PUTR. Actually, I looked for fdcdemo and can't seem to locate it: http://www.dbit.com/pub/ Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sat Jun 22 21:18:47 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? References: <000d01c21a50$a7e67780$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3D153007.46FEAF75@ccp.com> Richard Erlacher wrote: > > I just picked up a PC at the local thrift store. It has a board that's a > half-height ISA card with the designation SCB5 Junior. It's got a mini-din at > the backpanel, though it's definitely not the keyed sort used by a mouse or > keyboard. I've got to admit, I'm puzzled. > > The PC, BTW, was a 150 MHz Packard Bell "Platinum" with a 5 GB WD drive and a > 56x CDROM, along with the "usual" sound and modem boards and the usual > built-ins. It had no keyboard or mouse, and therefore cost only $1.99. I've > already established that the drives work, and the machine, which has 48MB of > 72-pin DRAM, also seems to run without a hitch. Unfortunately, the OS will > have to be reinstalled, since it was passworded. > > I snagged a similar one last week, with a 1.6GB HDD and an 8x CDROM, but it > has a TV card that I'd like to make work if it's possible. Anybody have any > experience with this Packard Bell stuff? > > Dick Only thing I ever did with Packard Bells was fill the dumpster. I'd keep from spending any money on it, and keep it around for the CD and HD and other goodies inside. $1.99 is about all I'd pay for the computer; the ancillary hardware is worth far more in another machine. What PB was to computers, Yugo was to cars. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From passerm at umkc.edu Sat Jun 22 20:51:09 2002 From: passerm at umkc.edu (Michael Passer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? In-Reply-To: <3D153007.46FEAF75@ccp.com> References: <000d01c21a50$a7e67780$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3D153007.46FEAF75@ccp.com> Message-ID: <200206222151.09674.passerm@umkc.edu> > Only thing I ever did with Packard Bells was fill the dumpster. I'd > keep from spending any money on it, and keep it around for the CD and HD > and other goodies inside. $1.99 is about all I'd pay for the computer; > the ancillary hardware is worth far more in another machine. What PB was > to computers, Yugo was to cars. Being a little hard on Yugo there, aren't we :)? The thing I remember most about Packard Bell was that a friend of my wife's bought one (without asking my advice), needed some help, and it had tamper resistant seals over the edges that asserted a voided warranty if the case was opened. My thoughts were along the lines of "how dare they?" From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jun 22 22:07:31 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Jun 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I just picked up a PC at the local thrift store. It has a board > that's a half-height ISA card with the designation SCB5 Junior. It's > got a mini-din at the backpanel, though it's definitely not the keyed > sort used by a mouse or keyboard. I've got to admit, I'm puzzled. Do you mean half-height? or half length? Is there any circuitry or chips on the board? That might help to narrow the choices bus mouse scanner (particularly hand scanner) graphics tablet camera sound . . . > The PC, BTW, was a 150 MHz Packard Bell "Platinum" with a 5 GB WD > drive and a 56x CDROM, along with the "usual" sound and modem boards > and the usual built-ins. It had no keyboard or mouse, and therefore > cost only $1.99. I've already established that the drives work, and > the machine, which has 48MB of 72-pin DRAM, also seems to run without > a hitch. Unfortunately, the OS will have to be reinstalled, since it > was passworded. WHICH OS? NT has real passwords, but is probably crackable. 9x passwords are NOT even intended to keep you out, and you can create a new "login" without having to crack the old one. What kind of partition does it have? From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 22 22:32:22 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? References: Message-ID: <003a01c21a66$964cd800$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've looked at what's on the HDD using DOS, and it's Win95, of which I have lots of copies already. I think I'll just sap the partition and start over. Yes, it's possible it's a bus mouse board, but the connector isn't the keyed sort that I've seen on mouse adapter boards in the past. does that seem likely to you? An Apple serial cable (from a Mac) plugs in just fine. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tothwolf" To: Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002 8:06 PM Subject: Re: [OT] Waddizzit?? > On Sat, 22 Jun 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > I just picked up a PC at the local thrift store. It has a board > > that's a half-height ISA card with the designation SCB5 Junior. It's > > got a mini-din at the backpanel, though it's definitely not the keyed > > sort used by a mouse or keyboard. I've got to admit, I'm puzzled. > > It might be for a bus-mouse, often those use 9 pin connectors. I've seen > older UPS controller boards that also meet this description. I have one > somewhere made by APC, but I can't remember how many pins the mini-din it > uses has. Based on your description, I'd guess your card is indeed for a > bus-mouse. Typically those have a jumper or dip switch to set the card to > one of 4 I/O addresses, and some also have an IRQ jumper. > > > The PC, BTW, was a 150 MHz Packard Bell "Platinum" with a 5 GB WD > > drive and a 56x CDROM, along with the "usual" sound and modem boards > > and the usual built-ins. It had no keyboard or mouse, and therefore > > cost only $1.99. I've already established that the drives work, and > > the machine, which has 48MB of 72-pin DRAM, also seems to run without > > a hitch. Unfortunately, the OS will have to be reinstalled, since it > > was passworded. > > Delete the *.pwl files in the 'windows' directory? Tried 'ESC' when it > asks for a password? You might need to use the policy editor (found on the > installation cd) to change some of the settings once you get past the > password prompt. (Before anyone asks, I don't like or even use windows for > my day to day machines, but I did admin large numbers of systems that were > running it in the past...) > > > I snagged a similar one last week, with a 1.6GB HDD and an 8x CDROM, > > but it has a TV card that I'd like to make work if it's possible. > > Anybody have any experience with this Packard Bell stuff? > > Based on my experiences with Packard Bell, they made systems best avoided > for important tasks. Their systems are fine if you want a box to tinker > with, but you might find yourself fixing lots of silly problems caused by > careless designers or assemblers. IIRC, NEC owns the Packard Bell brand > now, but I have no idea of they are still using it. > > -Toth > > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jun 22 22:35:30 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: Packard Bell (was Re: [OT] Waddizzit??) In-Reply-To: <3D153007.46FEAF75@ccp.com> Message-ID: <20020623033530.55668.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> --- Gary Hildebrand wrote: > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > I just picked up... a 150 MHz Packard Bell... > > Only thing I ever did with Packard Bells was fill the dumpster. I'd > keep from spending any money on it... I'm looking for a cheap/free PB power supply... I have an old free PB 486 with a PSU with a back end dimension of about 5" wide by less than 4.5" tall, perhaps as short as 3.5" (I'm going by the holes in the back of the case, not the PSU). It is substantially smaller than a "normal" AT PSU. I dropped an Intel 83MHz overdrive in it, and use it as a cable-modem router. The fan gunked up and the PSU died. I have a temporary replacement, but it doesn't fit in the case. In case anyone can help, another identifying feature is that the case has a long, crooked white plastic pushrod to power it on and off. The actual power switch is in the PSU enclosure. Thanks, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 22 22:38:43 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:35 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? References: <000d01c21a50$a7e67780$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3D153007.46FEAF75@ccp.com> Message-ID: <004601c21a67$79358720$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It's true, they are likely to be junk, as are Compaq, Dell, and Gateway products, mostly made here in the U.S. However, I've had one running quite solidly for about 5 years. I paid $10 for it at a thrift store back then, when a 133 MHz Pentium was still worth bending over and picking up, but then, times have changed. My son and my eldest (sorta) stepdaughter both have PB "Force 999" boxes that have never given cause to cuss 'em. Those are like the 5-year-old 2nd-hand (I bought 'em all at the same time for $30). Each one has had 32 MB since I got 'em, and, as I said, they've lasted fairly well, producing homework, etc, for the whole time without problems. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Hildebrand" To: Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002 8:18 PM Subject: Re: [OT] Waddizzit?? > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > I just picked up a PC at the local thrift store. It has a board that's a > > half-height ISA card with the designation SCB5 Junior. It's got a mini-din at > > the backpanel, though it's definitely not the keyed sort used by a mouse or > > keyboard. I've got to admit, I'm puzzled. > > > > The PC, BTW, was a 150 MHz Packard Bell "Platinum" with a 5 GB WD drive and a > > 56x CDROM, along with the "usual" sound and modem boards and the usual > > built-ins. It had no keyboard or mouse, and therefore cost only $1.99. I've > > already established that the drives work, and the machine, which has 48MB of > > 72-pin DRAM, also seems to run without a hitch. Unfortunately, the OS will > > have to be reinstalled, since it was passworded. > > > > I snagged a similar one last week, with a 1.6GB HDD and an 8x CDROM, but it > > has a TV card that I'd like to make work if it's possible. Anybody have any > > experience with this Packard Bell stuff? > > > > Dick > > Only thing I ever did with Packard Bells was fill the dumpster. I'd > keep from spending any money on it, and keep it around for the CD and HD > and other goodies inside. $1.99 is about all I'd pay for the computer; > the ancillary hardware is worth far more in another machine. What PB was > to computers, Yugo was to cars. > It's too bad Detroit can't produce better cars than those Yugos. time was, when you could actually get a good made-in-USA product. > From mythtech at mac.com Sat Jun 22 22:44:13 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? Message-ID: >I just picked up a PC at the local thrift store. It has a board that's a >half-height ISA card with the designation SCB5 Junior. It's got a >mini-din at >the backpanel, though it's definitely not the keyed sort used by a mouse or >keyboard. I've got to admit, I'm puzzled. I think it is a Logitech ScanMan scanner interface card. If it is the one I am thinking of, it is for the ScanMan 256 and ScanMan Color hand scanners. It has 2 dip switches and an 8 pin mini din right? If that is right, then it is probably the board I am thinking of. I have one here somewhere (but no scanner for it). I found info about how to config it somewhere online (but not Logitech's site IIRC, however I think they might have had a link to the actual manufacturer's site, or maybe I just found info via a google search... not quite sure). Wait... ok, found a link for you: , they have some info on how to set the dip switches. -chris From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 22 22:47:33 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? References: Message-ID: <005201c21a68$b521b000$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> it's a half-length ISA card, that's half the height of the "normal" ISA card, i.e. it's about 1.3" tall, above the edge connector, and the thing has two IC's, one of which is a Cypres 7C185-25, which is an 8KB SRAM, and the other is a 100-pin PQFP (20x30) on ~.5mm pin-pitch, stock-numbered 360357-00RevA, and a bunch of diodes, a Mosfet, and a bunch of passives. As I mentioned before, a Mac serial port cable plugs into the mini-din, but a PS/2 mouse does not. I did find that my old Logitech hand-scanner plugs into the board. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [OT] Waddizzit?? > On Sat, 22 Jun 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > I just picked up a PC at the local thrift store. It has a board > > that's a half-height ISA card with the designation SCB5 Junior. It's > > got a mini-din at the backpanel, though it's definitely not the keyed > > sort used by a mouse or keyboard. I've got to admit, I'm puzzled. > > Do you mean half-height? or half length? > Is there any circuitry or chips on the board? > > That might help to narrow the choices > bus mouse > scanner (particularly hand scanner) > graphics tablet > camera > sound > . . . > > > The PC, BTW, was a 150 MHz Packard Bell "Platinum" with a 5 GB WD > > drive and a 56x CDROM, along with the "usual" sound and modem boards > > and the usual built-ins. It had no keyboard or mouse, and therefore > > cost only $1.99. I've already established that the drives work, and > > the machine, which has 48MB of 72-pin DRAM, also seems to run without > > a hitch. Unfortunately, the OS will have to be reinstalled, since it > > was passworded. > > WHICH OS? > NT has real passwords, but is probably crackable. > 9x passwords are NOT even intended to keep you out, and you can create a > new "login" without having to crack the old one. > What kind of partition does it have? > > From donm at cts.com Sat Jun 22 22:49:04 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? In-Reply-To: <000d01c21a50$a7e67780$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Jun 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I just picked up a PC at the local thrift store. It has a board that's a > half-height ISA card with the designation SCB5 Junior. It's got a mini-din at > the backpanel, though it's definitely not the keyed sort used by a mouse or > keyboard. I've got to admit, I'm puzzled. It is apparently a Logitech card of some ilk, and capable of dealing with a Scanman Plus according to some correspondence on Logitech's site. - don > The PC, BTW, was a 150 MHz Packard Bell "Platinum" with a 5 GB WD drive and a > 56x CDROM, along with the "usual" sound and modem boards and the usual > built-ins. It had no keyboard or mouse, and therefore cost only $1.99. I've > already established that the drives work, and the machine, which has 48MB of > 72-pin DRAM, also seems to run without a hitch. Unfortunately, the OS will > have to be reinstalled, since it was passworded. > > I snagged a similar one last week, with a 1.6GB HDD and an 8x CDROM, but it > has a TV card that I'd like to make work if it's possible. Anybody have any > experience with this Packard Bell stuff? > > Dick > > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jun 22 22:56:41 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? References: Message-ID: <005e01c21a69$fb8ff8c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> GAWD! That would explain why my Logitech hand-scanner plugs into it! Unfortunately, I've little or no use for the thing ... Oh well ... BTW, the dip-switch settings are explained on the board. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" To: Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [OT] Waddizzit?? > >I just picked up a PC at the local thrift store. It has a board that's a > >half-height ISA card with the designation SCB5 Junior. It's got a > >mini-din at > >the backpanel, though it's definitely not the keyed sort used by a mouse or > >keyboard. I've got to admit, I'm puzzled. > > I think it is a Logitech ScanMan scanner interface card. > > If it is the one I am thinking of, it is for the ScanMan 256 and ScanMan > Color hand scanners. It has 2 dip switches and an 8 pin mini din right? > If that is right, then it is probably the board I am thinking of. I have > one here somewhere (but no scanner for it). I found info about how to > config it somewhere online (but not Logitech's site IIRC, however I think > they might have had a link to the actual manufacturer's site, or maybe I > just found info via a google search... not quite sure). > > Wait... ok, found a link for you: > , they have some > info on how to set the dip switches. > > -chris > > > From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Sat Jun 22 23:20:13 2002 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? In-Reply-To: <000d01c21a50$a7e67780$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <002101c21a6d$45d464e0$023ca8c0@blafleur> I have a Packard Bell Platinum that has a TV card in it. It's a P166. I might probably have the drivers for the TV card, as I purchased the machine NEW (gasp!) back in 1995 or 1996 or so. It still runs - my wife uses it to surf the net and E-mail. As for the TV card, you need to run a cable from the connector on the back of the card to the similar connector on the video card. - Bob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002 8:55 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? I just picked up a PC at the local thrift store. It has a board that's a half-height ISA card with the designation SCB5 Junior. It's got a mini-din at the backpanel, though it's definitely not the keyed sort used by a mouse or keyboard. I've got to admit, I'm puzzled. The PC, BTW, was a 150 MHz Packard Bell "Platinum" with a 5 GB WD drive and a 56x CDROM, along with the "usual" sound and modem boards and the usual built-ins. It had no keyboard or mouse, and therefore cost only $1.99. I've already established that the drives work, and the machine, which has 48MB of 72-pin DRAM, also seems to run without a hitch. Unfortunately, the OS will have to be reinstalled, since it was passworded. I snagged a similar one last week, with a 1.6GB HDD and an 8x CDROM, but it has a TV card that I'd like to make work if it's possible. Anybody have any experience with this Packard Bell stuff? Dick From fernande at internet1.net Sat Jun 22 23:34:01 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: Packard Bell (was Re: [OT] Waddizzit??) References: <20020623033530.55668.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D154FB9.8090008@internet1.net> Sounds like what was sometimes refered to as a PS/2 power supply. I don't know who started calling them that. I've never seen a PS/2 with a power supply that looked anything like what you describe. Don't most powers supplies look like that now? Unless you really like the thing..... I'd stripp it, recycle the steel and find a real PS/2 or something, anything, better than a PB. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Ethan Dicks wrote: > I'm looking for a cheap/free PB power supply... I have an old free PB > 486 with a PSU with a back end dimension of about 5" wide by less than > 4.5" tall, perhaps as short as 3.5" (I'm going by the holes in the back > of the case, not the PSU). It is substantially smaller than a "normal" > AT PSU. > > I dropped an Intel 83MHz overdrive in it, and use it as a cable-modem > router. The fan gunked up and the PSU died. I have a temporary > replacement, but it doesn't fit in the case. > > In case anyone can help, another identifying feature is that the case > has a long, crooked white plastic pushrod to power it on and off. The > actual power switch is in the PSU enclosure. > > Thanks, > > -ethan From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Jun 22 19:59:08 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: Packard Bell (was Re: [OT] Waddizzit??) In-Reply-To: <3D154FB9.8090008@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20020623045320.EWAY6218.tomts25-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Sounds like what was sometimes refered to as a PS/2 power supply. I > don't know who started calling them that. I've never seen a PS/2 with a > power supply that looked anything like what you describe. Don't most > powers supplies look like that now? > > Unless you really like the thing..... I'd stripp it, recycle the steel > and find a real PS/2 or something, anything, better than a PB. These PSUs in most PB are standard size with mounting holes, few had switch built in. Very cheap ones had tiny PSUs that used 60mm fans. YUCK. PS/2 days has passed on for current software demands. Running classic and older stuff is fine with PS/2 machines. Even Pentium 90 chokes on viewing graphics that their grandaddy sent pictures by email w/ win98. Cheers, Wizard > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > I'm looking for a cheap/free PB power supply... I have an old free PB > > 486 with a PSU with a back end dimension of about 5" wide by less than > > 4.5" tall, perhaps as short as 3.5" (I'm going by the holes in the back > > of the case, not the PSU). It is substantially smaller than a "normal" > > AT PSU. > > > > I dropped an Intel 83MHz overdrive in it, and use it as a cable-modem > > router. The fan gunked up and the PSU died. I have a temporary > > replacement, but it doesn't fit in the case. > > > > In case anyone can help, another identifying feature is that the case > > has a long, crooked white plastic pushrod to power it on and off. The > > actual power switch is in the PSU enclosure. > > > > Thanks, > > > > -ethan > > From pcw at mesanet.com Sat Jun 22 23:57:41 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: Found some stuff, interesting, perhaps but not to me ... In-Reply-To: <002801c21a51$3e77b1a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Jun 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > While looking around for "stuff" at the thrift stores, I ran into a couple of > items that may interest someone. One was an Appllo 700-series pizza-box-thick > box with no keyboard or monitor, but obviously an ethernet port and other > conventional hookups. The other was a Mac ColorClassic. I mention these only > because someone has mentioned them before. There was no price on the Mac, but > the Apollo box was $5. Could be a 9000/712, 9000/705 or 9000/710 or perhaps 700 RX series Xterminal. $5 is probably about right. 710s and 705s have really heavy steel cases. 712s are light and have a funny stepped plastic case. > > If anybody wants this stuff badly enough to pay freight (via USPS) I'll try to > get it and ship it to you for cost. > > Dick > > > Peter Wallace From fernande at internet1.net Sun Jun 23 00:01:24 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: Packard Bell (was Re: [OT] Waddizzit??) References: <20020623045320.EWAY6218.tomts25-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <3D155624.2030804@internet1.net> But this is a 486 class PB with an 83mhz upgrade...... still 486 class. A PS/2 P90 is superior to this PB. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > PS/2 days has passed on for current software demands. Running > classic and older stuff is fine with PS/2 machines. Even Pentium 90 > chokes on viewing graphics that their grandaddy sent pictures by > email w/ win98. > > Cheers, > > Wizard From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jun 23 09:50:40 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? In-Reply-To: <000d01c21a50$a7e67780$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020623095040.4bf7ee66@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Richard, Are the passwords set in the BIOS or in the OS? If they're set in the BIOs you can usually reset them by shorting two pins together on the motherboard. A lot of times there's a sticker inside the cover that shows how. If not then you should be able to find the instructions on the web. The cards sound interesting. It would definitely be worth the effort to break the password protection and see if there is software for the cards is on the drives. You might want to pull the drive and put it into another machine as a second drive and then boot from the primary drive and see if you can locate the card SW and copy off of the second drive. I find lots of PCs with interesting cards and IF the hard drive is still installed it's usually pretty simple to locate the card SW. I good file lister like LIST.COM helps. I also use Undelete to find any deleted files. You can also try to look up the card's FCC ID at the FCC's website. And/or look up the model number with a Google search. Let us know what the card is if you find out. Joe WHOA! I just found it. I looks like it's the interface card for a Logitech scanner. I searched for "scb5 junior" using Google and found this: Message Posted by Greg T.Bzdell on July 06, 2000 at 06:51:31: Due to hard drive and memory problems, I would like to take Win 3.1 off of my 486,but I have been unable to locate a Dos driver that will work my Logitech scb5 junior board my Scanman 256 is using. The only dos driver that logitech currently has on their site is for scb1 thru 4 and does not even recognize the scb5 junior. Has anybody run into this problem and knows how to get the board working in DOS. Actually, I am using DR-DOS 7.03. Thanks for any help. END At 06:55 PM 6/22/02 -0600, you wrote: >I just picked up a PC at the local thrift store. It has a board that's a >half-height ISA card with the designation SCB5 Junior. It's got a mini-din at >the backpanel, though it's definitely not the keyed sort used by a mouse or >keyboard. I've got to admit, I'm puzzled. > >The PC, BTW, was a 150 MHz Packard Bell "Platinum" with a 5 GB WD drive and a >56x CDROM, along with the "usual" sound and modem boards and the usual >built-ins. It had no keyboard or mouse, and therefore cost only $1.99. I've >already established that the drives work, and the machine, which has 48MB of >72-pin DRAM, also seems to run without a hitch. Unfortunately, the OS will >have to be reinstalled, since it was passworded. > >I snagged a similar one last week, with a 1.6GB HDD and an 8x CDROM, but it >has a TV card that I'd like to make work if it's possible. Anybody have any >experience with this Packard Bell stuff? > >Dick > > > From allain at panix.com Sun Jun 23 09:38:14 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: History x2 in 'Wired' References: <20020621141505.11452.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> <001401c219f2$6c73bea0$96e9f1c3@cx> <3D152D23.7BE57809@compsys.to> Message-ID: <000701c21ac3$9b9d08e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> The issue of Wired I just picked up, July, features two computer history items: A Wired-original 2-page history chart of all (about 75 total) popular computer languages since 1954. and a mini-introduction (with Big Cray pic.) of the new book "Computers: An Illustrated History" (on Amazon as by Christian Wurster) (sounds like this was the guy to get for VCF.de) (also here: http://www.taschen.com/pages/en/catalogue/books/architecture_design/new/fact s/02976.htm John A. From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jun 23 13:01:52 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? References: <3.0.6.16.20020623095040.4bf7ee66@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000f01c21ae0$0e4514c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> These are Windows passwords, and I'm sure it's easy to get around 'em, but it's not important in any sense that I do so. I must have another of these boards somewhere, since I have a Logitech hand scanner hanging on the wall, where it's been for the decade since I last used it. I haven't even attempted to use it since I got that legal size sheet-fed scanner back in '91. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [OT] Waddizzit?? > Richard, > > Are the passwords set in the BIOS or in the OS? If they're set in the BIOs you can usually reset them by shorting two pins together on the motherboard. A lot of times there's a sticker inside the cover that shows how. If not then you should be able to find the instructions on the web. > > The cards sound interesting. It would definitely be worth the effort to break the password protection and see if there is software for the cards is on the drives. You might want to pull the drive and put it into another machine as a second drive and then boot from the primary drive and see if you can locate the card SW and copy off of the second drive. > > I find lots of PCs with interesting cards and IF the hard drive is still installed it's usually pretty simple to locate the card SW. I good file lister like LIST.COM helps. I also use Undelete to find any deleted files. > > You can also try to look up the card's FCC ID at the FCC's website. And/or look up the model number with a Google search. > > Let us know what the card is if you find out. > > Joe > > WHOA! I just found it. I looks like it's the interface card for a Logitech scanner. I searched for "scb5 junior" using Google and found this: > > > Message > > Posted by Greg T.Bzdell on July 06, 2000 at 06:51:31: > > Due to hard drive and memory problems, I would like to take > Win 3.1 off of my 486,but I have been unable to locate > a Dos driver that will work my Logitech scb5 junior board > my Scanman 256 is using. The only dos driver that logitech > currently has on their site is for scb1 thru 4 and does not > even recognize the scb5 junior. Has anybody run into this problem > and knows how to get the board working in DOS. Actually, I am using DR-DOS 7.03. > Thanks for any help. > > END > > > > > > > > At 06:55 PM 6/22/02 -0600, you wrote: > >I just picked up a PC at the local thrift store. It has a board that's a > >half-height ISA card with the designation SCB5 Junior. It's got a mini-din at > >the backpanel, though it's definitely not the keyed sort used by a mouse or > >keyboard. I've got to admit, I'm puzzled. > > > >The PC, BTW, was a 150 MHz Packard Bell "Platinum" with a 5 GB WD drive and a > >56x CDROM, along with the "usual" sound and modem boards and the usual > >built-ins. It had no keyboard or mouse, and therefore cost only $1.99. I've > >already established that the drives work, and the machine, which has 48MB of > >72-pin DRAM, also seems to run without a hitch. Unfortunately, the OS will > >have to be reinstalled, since it was passworded. > > > >I snagged a similar one last week, with a 1.6GB HDD and an 8x CDROM, but it > >has a TV card that I'd like to make work if it's possible. Anybody have any > >experience with this Packard Bell stuff? > > > >Dick > > > > > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jun 23 13:07:56 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? References: <002101c21a6d$45d464e0$023ca8c0@blafleur> Message-ID: <001901c21ae0$e6dc7800$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I don't remember for sure, but I think this one is a 133. The other one (without the TV card) is a 150. I see about one of these every week, on average. They're beginning to surface, I think, because folks have figured out it's of more benefit to donate them to a charity and take the tax write-off than to try to sell them. more below ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Lafleur" To: Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002 10:20 PM Subject: RE: [OT] Waddizzit?? > I have a Packard Bell Platinum that has a TV card in it. It's a P166. I > might probably have the drivers for the TV card, as I purchased the > machine NEW (gasp!) back in 1995 or 1996 or so. It still runs - my wife > uses it to surf the net and E-mail. > > As for the TV card, you need to run a cable from the connector on the > back of the card to the similar connector on the video card. > That cable was actually in place. However, the software is not. I have a set of PB setup CD's for the earlier Force 999 system, which is the one of which I bought three, and it claims to have the software on it to run that video board, but I haven't been able to install it. Any suggestions? > > - Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher > Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002 8:55 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? > > > I just picked up a PC at the local thrift store. It has a board that's > a half-height ISA card with the designation SCB5 Junior. It's got a > mini-din at the backpanel, though it's definitely not the keyed sort > used by a mouse or keyboard. I've got to admit, I'm puzzled. > > The PC, BTW, was a 150 MHz Packard Bell "Platinum" with a 5 GB WD drive > and a 56x CDROM, along with the "usual" sound and modem boards and the > usual built-ins. It had no keyboard or mouse, and therefore cost only > $1.99. I've already established that the drives work, and the machine, > which has 48MB of 72-pin DRAM, also seems to run without a hitch. > Unfortunately, the OS will have to be reinstalled, since it was > passworded. > > I snagged a similar one last week, with a 1.6GB HDD and an 8x CDROM, but > it has a TV card that I'd like to make work if it's possible. Anybody > have any experience with this Packard Bell stuff? > > Dick > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jun 23 13:11:10 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: Thanks (was Re: [OT] Waddizzit??) References: <20020623033530.55668.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> <3D154FB9.8090008@internet1.net> Message-ID: <001f01c21ae1$5a7e8500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Thanks to all you guys who figured out what this "mystery board" is. If I'd happened to look in my spare parts drawer, I'd have seen a similar board, since I have an old Logitech hand scanner. I thought it looked familiar, but I hadn't even considered fooling with the hand scanner for a decade or so, hence, hadn't seen the board. Dick From hofmanwb at worldonline.nl Sun Jun 23 14:51:02 2002 From: hofmanwb at worldonline.nl (W.B.(Wim) Hofman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? References: <20020621141505.11452.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> <001401c219f2$6c73bea0$96e9f1c3@cx> <3D152D23.7BE57809@compsys.to> Message-ID: <003f01c21aef$53bd0e40$35e3f1c3@cx> For FDCDEMO try http://www.dbit.com/pub/ibmpc/floppy/ Wim ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerome H. Fine To: Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 4:06 AM Subject: Re: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? > >"W.B.(Wim) Hofman" wrote: > > > Ethan, > > John M.B.Wilson, creator of the Ersatz-11 PDP11 emulator wrote a program > > fdcdemo that one can use use to create and duplicate RX50 floppies > > on a 1.2 Mb drive using low density (360 kb) floppy disks. The program was > > available on his site. Mind, you need a proper floppy disk controller with > > more than one crystal but this is explained in the documentation of the > > program. > > Wim Hofman > > Jerome Fine replies: > > Normally when I wish to create (Low Level Format) an RX50 floppy, > I use PUTR. Actually, I looked for fdcdemo and can't seem to locate it: > http://www.dbit.com/pub/ > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > -- > If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail > address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk > e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be > obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the > 'at' with the four digits of the current year. > > > > From elecdata at kcinter.net Sun Jun 23 15:53:03 2002 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill clausssen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? References: <3.0.6.16.20020623095040.4bf7ee66@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <000f01c21ae0$0e4514c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3D16352F.47AEE558@kcinter.net> Howdy, I'm very familiar with Packard Bell, We were a service center for about 10 years or so. On the back of the machine is a number that begins with 800 or 848 etc. it's 9 digits long. if it is a tv card then there is a cable that runs from the back of the card to the bottom of the computer for video input. it's a special cable. I might actually still have one or two in stock. If the password is in bios, then the 9 digit number will help in determining which pins need to be shorted. If I can help let me know. Bill Richard Erlacher wrote: > > These are Windows passwords, and I'm sure it's easy to get around 'em, but > it's not important in any sense that I do so. > > I must have another of these boards somewhere, since I have a Logitech hand > scanner hanging on the wall, where it's been for the decade since I last used > it. I haven't even attempted to use it since I got that legal size sheet-fed > scanner back in '91. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe" > To: > Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 9:50 AM > Subject: Re: [OT] Waddizzit?? > > > Richard, > > > > Are the passwords set in the BIOS or in the OS? If they're set in the > BIOs you can usually reset them by shorting two pins together on the > motherboard. A lot of times there's a sticker inside the cover that shows how. > If not then you should be able to find the instructions on the web. > > > > The cards sound interesting. It would definitely be worth the effort to > break the password protection and see if there is software for the cards is on > the drives. You might want to pull the drive and put it into another machine > as a second drive and then boot from the primary drive and see if you can > locate the card SW and copy off of the second drive. > > > > I find lots of PCs with interesting cards and IF the hard drive is still > installed it's usually pretty simple to locate the card SW. I good file > lister like LIST.COM helps. I also use Undelete to find any deleted files. > > > > You can also try to look up the card's FCC ID at the FCC's website. And/or > look up the model number with a Google search. > > > > Let us know what the card is if you find out. > > > > Joe > > > > WHOA! I just found it. I looks like it's the interface card for a > Logitech scanner. I searched for "scb5 junior" using Google and found this: > > > > > > Message > > > > Posted by Greg T.Bzdell on July 06, 2000 at 06:51:31: > > > > Due to hard drive and memory problems, I would like to take > > Win 3.1 off of my 486,but I have been unable to locate > > a Dos driver that will work my Logitech scb5 junior board > > my Scanman 256 is using. The only dos driver that logitech > > currently has on their site is for scb1 thru 4 and does not > > even recognize the scb5 junior. Has anybody run into this problem > > and knows how to get the board working in DOS. Actually, I am using DR-DOS > 7.03. > > Thanks for any help. > > > > END > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 06:55 PM 6/22/02 -0600, you wrote: > > >I just picked up a PC at the local thrift store. It has a board that's a > > >half-height ISA card with the designation SCB5 Junior. It's got a mini-din > at > > >the backpanel, though it's definitely not the keyed sort used by a mouse or > > >keyboard. I've got to admit, I'm puzzled. > > > > > >The PC, BTW, was a 150 MHz Packard Bell "Platinum" with a 5 GB WD drive and > a > > >56x CDROM, along with the "usual" sound and modem boards and the usual > > >built-ins. It had no keyboard or mouse, and therefore cost only $1.99. > I've > > >already established that the drives work, and the machine, which has 48MB > of > > >72-pin DRAM, also seems to run without a hitch. Unfortunately, the OS will > > >have to be reinstalled, since it was passworded. > > > > > >I snagged a similar one last week, with a 1.6GB HDD and an 8x CDROM, but it > > >has a TV card that I'd like to make work if it's possible. Anybody have > any > > >experience with this Packard Bell stuff? > > > > > >Dick > > > > > > > > > > > > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jun 23 16:09:08 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: History x2 in 'Wired' In-Reply-To: <000701c21ac3$9b9d08e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <20020621141505.11452.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> <001401c219f2$6c73bea0$96e9f1c3@cx> <3D152D23.7BE57809@compsys.to> Message-ID: >The issue of Wired I just picked up, July, features > two computer history items: Finally a reason to check out the magazines my wife has mysteriously been getting (we've no idea why). >A Wired-original 2-page history chart of all (about > 75 total) popular computer languages since 1954. I've got to question how accurate this is. It lists Algol 68 as "Extinct", which it defines as "No known active users or up-to-date compilers". There are at least a few users in the PDP-10 community. It also lists BCPL as being extinct, yet IIRC it's still being sold by a company in Europe. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From sipke at wxs.nl Sun Jun 23 16:51:39 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? References: <3.0.6.16.20020623095040.4bf7ee66@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <004b01c21b00$331bb900$030101ac@boll.casema.net> If you can't find the Bios-reset pins you could shove a piece of paper under the battery and wait for a few hours to let any caps leak the voltage away ... Sipke de Wal --------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx --------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [OT] Waddizzit?? > Richard, > > Are the passwords set in the BIOS or in the OS? If they're set in the BIOs you can usually reset them by shorting two pins together on the motherboard. A lot of times there's a sticker inside the cover that shows how. If not then you should be able to find the instructions on the web. > > The cards sound interesting. It would definitely be worth the effort to break the password protection and see if there is software for the cards is on the drives. You might want to pull the drive and put it into another machine as a second drive and then boot from the primary drive and see if you can locate the card SW and copy off of the second drive. > > I find lots of PCs with interesting cards and IF the hard drive is still installed it's usually pretty simple to locate the card SW. I good file lister like LIST.COM helps. I also use Undelete to find any deleted files. > > You can also try to look up the card's FCC ID at the FCC's website. And/or look up the model number with a Google search. > > Let us know what the card is if you find out. > > Joe > > WHOA! I just found it. I looks like it's the interface card for a Logitech scanner. I searched for "scb5 junior" using Google and found this: > > > Message > > Posted by Greg T.Bzdell on July 06, 2000 at 06:51:31: > > Due to hard drive and memory problems, I would like to take > Win 3.1 off of my 486,but I have been unable to locate > a Dos driver that will work my Logitech scb5 junior board > my Scanman 256 is using. The only dos driver that logitech > currently has on their site is for scb1 thru 4 and does not > even recognize the scb5 junior. Has anybody run into this problem > and knows how to get the board working in DOS. Actually, I am using DR-DOS 7.03. > Thanks for any help. > > END > > > > > > > > At 06:55 PM 6/22/02 -0600, you wrote: > >I just picked up a PC at the local thrift store. It has a board that's a > >half-height ISA card with the designation SCB5 Junior. It's got a mini-din at > >the backpanel, though it's definitely not the keyed sort used by a mouse or > >keyboard. I've got to admit, I'm puzzled. > > > >The PC, BTW, was a 150 MHz Packard Bell "Platinum" with a 5 GB WD drive and a > >56x CDROM, along with the "usual" sound and modem boards and the usual > >built-ins. It had no keyboard or mouse, and therefore cost only $1.99. I've > >already established that the drives work, and the machine, which has 48MB of > >72-pin DRAM, also seems to run without a hitch. Unfortunately, the OS will > >have to be reinstalled, since it was passworded. > > > >I snagged a similar one last week, with a 1.6GB HDD and an 8x CDROM, but it > >has a TV card that I'd like to make work if it's possible. Anybody have any > >experience with this Packard Bell stuff? > > > >Dick > > > > > > > From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sun Jun 23 20:51:35 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? References: <20020621141505.11452.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> <001401c219f2$6c73bea0$96e9f1c3@cx> <3D152D23.7BE57809@compsys.to> <003f01c21aef$53bd0e40$35e3f1c3@cx> Message-ID: <3D167B27.F6C64293@compsys.to> >"W.B.(Wim) Hofman" wrote: > For FDCDEMO try http://www.dbit.com/pub/ibmpc/floppy/ Jerome Fine replies: I took a quick look at the documentation - THANK YOU!! However, if I am using RX50 media on the PC, I suspect that PUTR and Ersatz-11 will be far superior. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Sun Jun 23 21:06:20 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: Anyone Care About RT-11 Message-ID: <3D167E9C.C99BB497@compsys.to> In regard to the Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 If you are not receiving this paragraph as part of an individual message, then you are not on my list of individuals who may wish to receive their own copies of the CDs. In that case, please reply so that you can be placed on my list when I send out an e-mail with my address. At that time, unless otherwise requested, I will send out a single e-mail to all of the individuals who have expressed an interest - so that you will all know who each other are and have e-mail addresses with which to correspond to each other. Currently, there are 9 individuals on the list in addition to Tim Shoppa. This individual reply will probably be the last before I send you my address so you can send the funds for as many of the 3 CDs that you wish to have. The only thing left is to try and obtain a file which contains the image of the label on the CD. Some of you have received these CDs from Tim Shoppa and for accuracy, I would like to duplicate the actual label that Tim used. If anyone who already has a copy of any of the 3 CDs could help by providing a file that can be sent to a laser printer to produce the labels, that would be appreciated. If I have not received a positive response within a few weeks, then if someone who already has the RSX-11 CDs can at least provide me with the words on both the ".iso" and the "ods1" CDs, that would be second best. I already have the words to be used with the RT-11 CD. I have now finished the verification tasks that I feel are needed to ensure that I am producing correct images. I will be making some copies of the CD images from: ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/cd-images/ http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/ http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/ http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RSX-11/ that I have downloaded and wish to offload from my hard disk drive. I have verified each of the 2 RSX-11 and the 1 RT-11 images against the MD5 values in the file MD5SUMS and they are the same. After I copied the images on my hard drive to the CD, I verified them against their respective images in their hard drive files. To do so, I used RT-11 and BINCOM (with some of my own modifications which allows me to also verify block 65535 at the end of each RT-11 partition). Since there are a maximum of 20 RT-11 partitions on each CD and each BINCOM run takes me less than 30 seconds, the whole comparison can be done in less than 10 minutes - which is about the length of time it takes to make the CD copy in the first place. Since there might be a number of individuals who can't download at a reasonable speed (even with DSL it takes about 3 hours each at about 30 KBytes per second as compared with about 3 KBytes per second on a dial up line), I am prepared to make additional copies (Tim Shoppa no longer seems to have the time to do so) and make them available at my cost (for media, label, envelope and shipping carton plus postage to the US) and make them available at my cost of about $ 5 / $ 8 / $ 10 for 1 / 2 / 3 CDs. If you prefer to have me use Maxell Black brand CDs which I have been told last about twice as long, the cost will be $ 1 more per CD. Note that all the prices are in US dollars for destinations in the US and postage from Canada. If you are in a different country, the postage will be different. I have yet to verify these prices to be sure that they cover my costs, in particular the postage after the CD is ready to be mailed, but I am 99% sure they should be adequate. Note that the images at Tim's site are ".bz2" files while the images at classiccmp are ".gz" images. For myself (Windows 98 and Netscape 4.78) DOES NOT WORK with the ".gz" images (since the file is automatically expanded - and the result is incorrect), but Carlos Murillo sent me a Windows 98 version of wget which does work, I suppose on any file. By the way, I tried to hold the SHIFT key down while I was clicking my way through the download procedures of the ".gz" files under Netscape and that did not help. Note that the images at the classiccmp site are ".gz" files, so they are slightly larger. Since I did my original download from the full size images, I did not initially have a problem with expanding. However, after I successfully downloaded the ".gz" files with wget, I used WinZip under Windows 98. After I downloaded the ".bz2" files, I used bzip2 to expand them under Windows 98. Both expanded files were identical to the full size image, so obviously all three produced the correct MD5 value. If you need help and are running Windows 98 or a compatible OS, I can send you copies of both "bzip2.exe" and "MD5.exe", but not for others OSs. For other OSs (and Windows 98) for bzip2 programs, see: http://sources.redhat.com/bzip2/ and click on either: PC, Windows 95/98/ME/NT/2000/XP PC, Windows 95/98/NT/2000. for bzip2.exe - I was advised to use the second older version and did - it worked fine under Windows 98. For MD5 programs, see either: ftp://ftp.cerias.purdue.edu/pub/tools/unix/crypto/md5/ http://www.fourmilab.ch/md5/ I obtained my MD5 programs at the first site. By the way, for myself, I would VERY much appreciate being in touch with all individuals who have a copy of the RT-11 Freeware CD V2.0 so that we might exchange information about RT-11. Tim Shoppa felt that he might be violating privacy concerns if he made the names, of those who ordered the CD, available. I don't see it that way, so if you want your name to be known along with the other individuals (or not as the case may be - i.e. restrict that you have a copy of the RT-11 CD to ONLY specified individuals such as possibly just myself) so that you can receive interesting information about new developments in RT-11 and the status of the operating system, then PLEASE contact me so that we can share information. Also state if you want to be known to the entire group of just to specified individuals such as myself. PLUS, as for TSX-PLUS, I am going to try again to knock at the door of S&H to see what they may consider for hobby users. Some of you have already expressed an interest in the CDs. I hope that I have sent a personal copy of this post. If I somehow missed you, please send me your request again. For those users who receive a personal copy of this e-mail, you are already on my list. I will send you a mailing address when I am ready to burn the CDs. Please reply if you are still interested. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jun 23 22:25:05 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? References: <3.0.6.16.20020623095040.4bf7ee66@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <000f01c21ae0$0e4514c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3D16352F.47AEE558@kcinter.net> Message-ID: <001201c21b2e$bc379500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I don't have a problem with passwords in this case. What does puzzle me, however, is that the software installation from the PB CD's doesn't seem to work at all. I've tried to reinstall the OS, since the OS on the main drive was Win98, yet the CD set and the doc's in the files on the system suggest it's supposed to be Win95, and I'm unable to install the tv-card software, either for want of directions or for want of brains, and possibly both. It should work with the original CD's, but apparently it's more than meets the eye. Perhaps you, as an experienced service person, can offer some "spiritual guidance" with respect to this task. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill clausssen" To: Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 2:53 PM Subject: Re: [OT] Waddizzit?? > Howdy, > > I'm very familiar with Packard Bell, We were a service center for about > 10 years or so. On the back of the machine is a number that begins with > 800 or 848 etc. it's 9 digits long. if it is a tv card then there is a > cable that runs from the back of the card to the bottom of the computer > for video input. it's a special cable. I might actually still have one > or two in stock. If the password is in bios, then the 9 digit number > will help in determining which pins need to be shorted. If I can help > let me know. > > Bill > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > These are Windows passwords, and I'm sure it's easy to get around 'em, but > > it's not important in any sense that I do so. > > > > I must have another of these boards somewhere, since I have a Logitech hand > > scanner hanging on the wall, where it's been for the decade since I last used > > it. I haven't even attempted to use it since I got that legal size sheet-fed > > scanner back in '91. > > > > Dick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Joe" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 9:50 AM > > Subject: Re: [OT] Waddizzit?? > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > Are the passwords set in the BIOS or in the OS? If they're set in the > > BIOs you can usually reset them by shorting two pins together on the > > motherboard. A lot of times there's a sticker inside the cover that shows how. > > If not then you should be able to find the instructions on the web. > > > > > > The cards sound interesting. It would definitely be worth the effort to > > break the password protection and see if there is software for the cards is on > > the drives. You might want to pull the drive and put it into another machine > > as a second drive and then boot from the primary drive and see if you can > > locate the card SW and copy off of the second drive. > > > > > > I find lots of PCs with interesting cards and IF the hard drive is still > > installed it's usually pretty simple to locate the card SW. I good file > > lister like LIST.COM helps. I also use Undelete to find any deleted files. > > > > > > You can also try to look up the card's FCC ID at the FCC's website. And/or > > look up the model number with a Google search. > > > > > > Let us know what the card is if you find out. > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > WHOA! I just found it. I looks like it's the interface card for a > > Logitech scanner. I searched for "scb5 junior" using Google and found this: > > > > > > > > > Message > > > > > > Posted by Greg T.Bzdell on July 06, 2000 at 06:51:31: > > > > > > Due to hard drive and memory problems, I would like to take > > > Win 3.1 off of my 486,but I have been unable to locate > > > a Dos driver that will work my Logitech scb5 junior board > > > my Scanman 256 is using. The only dos driver that logitech > > > currently has on their site is for scb1 thru 4 and does not > > > even recognize the scb5 junior. Has anybody run into this problem > > > and knows how to get the board working in DOS. Actually, I am using DR-DOS > > 7.03. > > > Thanks for any help. > > > > > > END > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 06:55 PM 6/22/02 -0600, you wrote: > > > >I just picked up a PC at the local thrift store. It has a board that's a > > > >half-height ISA card with the designation SCB5 Junior. It's got a mini-din > > at > > > >the backpanel, though it's definitely not the keyed sort used by a mouse or > > > >keyboard. I've got to admit, I'm puzzled. > > > > > > > >The PC, BTW, was a 150 MHz Packard Bell "Platinum" with a 5 GB WD drive and > > a > > > >56x CDROM, along with the "usual" sound and modem boards and the usual > > > >built-ins. It had no keyboard or mouse, and therefore cost only $1.99. > > I've > > > >already established that the drives work, and the machine, which has 48MB > > of > > > >72-pin DRAM, also seems to run without a hitch. Unfortunately, the OS will > > > >have to be reinstalled, since it was passworded. > > > > > > > >I snagged a similar one last week, with a 1.6GB HDD and an 8x CDROM, but it > > > >has a TV card that I'd like to make work if it's possible. Anybody have > > any > > > >experience with this Packard Bell stuff? > > > > > > > >Dick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jun 23 22:26:14 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? References: <3.0.6.16.20020623095040.4bf7ee66@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <004b01c21b00$331bb900$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: <001801c21b2e$e50a53a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It's not the CMOS password that prompted me to hose the hard disk. There weren't any files I needed anyway, and I prefer to start afresh. I have lots of "official" Windows licenses. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sipke de Wal" To: Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 3:51 PM Subject: Re: [OT] Waddizzit?? > If you can't find the Bios-reset pins > you could shove a piece of paper > under the battery and wait for > a few hours to let any caps leak > the voltage away ... > > Sipke de Wal > --------------------------------- > http://xgistor.ath.cx > --------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe" > To: > Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 9:50 AM > Subject: Re: [OT] Waddizzit?? > > > > Richard, > > > > Are the passwords set in the BIOS or in the OS? If they're set in the BIOs > you can usually reset them by shorting two pins together on the motherboard. A > lot of times there's a sticker inside the cover that shows how. If not then you > should be able to find the instructions on the web. > > > > The cards sound interesting. It would definitely be worth the effort to > break the password protection and see if there is software for the cards is on > the drives. You might want to pull the drive and put it into another machine as > a second drive and then boot from the primary drive and see if you can locate > the card SW and copy off of the second drive. > > > > I find lots of PCs with interesting cards and IF the hard drive is still > installed it's usually pretty simple to locate the card SW. I good file lister > like LIST.COM helps. I also use Undelete to find any deleted files. > > > > You can also try to look up the card's FCC ID at the FCC's website. And/or > look up the model number with a Google search. > > > > Let us know what the card is if you find out. > > > > Joe > > > > WHOA! I just found it. I looks like it's the interface card for a Logitech > scanner. I searched for "scb5 junior" using Google and found this: > > > > > > Message > > > > Posted by Greg T.Bzdell on July 06, 2000 at 06:51:31: > > > > Due to hard drive and memory problems, I would like to take > > Win 3.1 off of my 486,but I have been unable to locate > > a Dos driver that will work my Logitech scb5 junior board > > my Scanman 256 is using. The only dos driver that logitech > > currently has on their site is for scb1 thru 4 and does not > > even recognize the scb5 junior. Has anybody run into this problem > > and knows how to get the board working in DOS. Actually, I am using DR-DOS > 7.03. > > Thanks for any help. > > > > END > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 06:55 PM 6/22/02 -0600, you wrote: > > >I just picked up a PC at the local thrift store. It has a board that's a > > >half-height ISA card with the designation SCB5 Junior. It's got a mini-din > at > > >the backpanel, though it's definitely not the keyed sort used by a mouse or > > >keyboard. I've got to admit, I'm puzzled. > > > > > >The PC, BTW, was a 150 MHz Packard Bell "Platinum" with a 5 GB WD drive and a > > >56x CDROM, along with the "usual" sound and modem boards and the usual > > >built-ins. It had no keyboard or mouse, and therefore cost only $1.99. I've > > >already established that the drives work, and the machine, which has 48MB of > > >72-pin DRAM, also seems to run without a hitch. Unfortunately, the OS will > > >have to be reinstalled, since it was passworded. > > > > > >I snagged a similar one last week, with a 1.6GB HDD and an 8x CDROM, but it > > >has a TV card that I'd like to make work if it's possible. Anybody have any > > >experience with this Packard Bell stuff? > > > > > >Dick > > > > > > > > > > > > > From elecdata at kcinter.net Sun Jun 23 22:39:26 2002 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill clausssen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? References: <3.0.6.16.20020623095040.4bf7ee66@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <000f01c21ae0$0e4514c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3D16352F.47AEE558@kcinter.net> <001201c21b2e$bc379500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3D16946E.3304137F@kcinter.net> The 9 digit number on the back of the machine will tell me what the format number is. The original software needs that format number to put the correct software on the hd. It is also possible that the system needs the boot disk for it. to access the software. Bill Richard Erlacher wrote: > > I don't have a problem with passwords in this case. What does puzzle me, > however, is that the software installation from the PB CD's doesn't seem to > work at all. I've tried to reinstall the OS, since the OS on the main drive > was Win98, yet the CD set and the doc's in the files on the system suggest > it's supposed to be Win95, and I'm unable to install the tv-card software, > either for want of directions or for want of brains, and possibly both. It > should work with the original CD's, but apparently it's more than meets the > eye. > > Perhaps you, as an experienced service person, can offer some "spiritual > guidance" with respect to this task. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "bill clausssen" > To: > Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 2:53 PM > Subject: Re: [OT] Waddizzit?? > > > Howdy, > > > > I'm very familiar with Packard Bell, We were a service center for about > > 10 years or so. On the back of the machine is a number that begins with > > 800 or 848 etc. it's 9 digits long. if it is a tv card then there is a > > cable that runs from the back of the card to the bottom of the computer > > for video input. it's a special cable. I might actually still have one > > or two in stock. If the password is in bios, then the 9 digit number > > will help in determining which pins need to be shorted. If I can help > > let me know. > > > > Bill > > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > > These are Windows passwords, and I'm sure it's easy to get around 'em, but > > > it's not important in any sense that I do so. > > > > > > I must have another of these boards somewhere, since I have a Logitech > hand > > > scanner hanging on the wall, where it's been for the decade since I last > used > > > it. I haven't even attempted to use it since I got that legal size > sheet-fed > > > scanner back in '91. > > > > > > Dick > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Joe" > > > To: > > > Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 9:50 AM > > > Subject: Re: [OT] Waddizzit?? > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > > Are the passwords set in the BIOS or in the OS? If they're set in > the > > > BIOs you can usually reset them by shorting two pins together on the > > > motherboard. A lot of times there's a sticker inside the cover that shows > how. > > > If not then you should be able to find the instructions on the web. > > > > > > > > The cards sound interesting. It would definitely be worth the effort > to > > > break the password protection and see if there is software for the cards > is on > > > the drives. You might want to pull the drive and put it into another > machine > > > as a second drive and then boot from the primary drive and see if you can > > > locate the card SW and copy off of the second drive. > > > > > > > > I find lots of PCs with interesting cards and IF the hard drive is > still > > > installed it's usually pretty simple to locate the card SW. I good file > > > lister like LIST.COM helps. I also use Undelete to find any deleted files. > > > > > > > > You can also try to look up the card's FCC ID at the FCC's website. > And/or > > > look up the model number with a Google search. > > > > > > > > Let us know what the card is if you find out. > > > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > WHOA! I just found it. I looks like it's the interface card for a > > > Logitech scanner. I searched for "scb5 junior" using Google and found > this: > > > > > > > > > > > > Message > > > > > > > > Posted by Greg T.Bzdell on July 06, 2000 at 06:51:31: > > > > > > > > Due to hard drive and memory problems, I would like to take > > > > Win 3.1 off of my 486,but I have been unable to locate > > > > a Dos driver that will work my Logitech scb5 junior board > > > > my Scanman 256 is using. The only dos driver that logitech > > > > currently has on their site is for scb1 thru 4 and does not > > > > even recognize the scb5 junior. Has anybody run into this problem > > > > and knows how to get the board working in DOS. Actually, I am using > DR-DOS > > > 7.03. > > > > Thanks for any help. > > > > > > > > END > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 06:55 PM 6/22/02 -0600, you wrote: > > > > >I just picked up a PC at the local thrift store. It has a board that's > a > > > > >half-height ISA card with the designation SCB5 Junior. It's got a > mini-din > > > at > > > > >the backpanel, though it's definitely not the keyed sort used by a > mouse or > > > > >keyboard. I've got to admit, I'm puzzled. > > > > > > > > > >The PC, BTW, was a 150 MHz Packard Bell "Platinum" with a 5 GB WD drive > and > > > a > > > > >56x CDROM, along with the "usual" sound and modem boards and the usual > > > > >built-ins. It had no keyboard or mouse, and therefore cost only $1.99. > > > I've > > > > >already established that the drives work, and the machine, which has > 48MB > > > of > > > > >72-pin DRAM, also seems to run without a hitch. Unfortunately, the OS > will > > > > >have to be reinstalled, since it was passworded. > > > > > > > > > >I snagged a similar one last week, with a 1.6GB HDD and an 8x CDROM, > but it > > > > >has a TV card that I'd like to make work if it's possible. Anybody > have > > > any > > > > >experience with this Packard Bell stuff? > > > > > > > > > >Dick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jun 23 22:44:10 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: History x2 in 'Wired' In-Reply-To: <000701c21ac3$9b9d08e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Jun 2002, John Allain wrote: > A Wired-original 2-page history chart of all (about > 75 total) popular computer languages since 1954. 75 is WAY LESS THAN ALL!!!!! The 75 "most important" would be nice, but "ALL"?!? From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Mon Jun 24 01:46:54 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: History x2 in 'Wired' In-Reply-To: References: <000701c21ac3$9b9d08e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <20020621141505.11452.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> <001401c219f2$6c73bea0$96e9f1c3@cx> <3D152D23.7BE57809@compsys.to> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020624164201.0240b080@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 02:09 PM 23/06/2002 -0700, Zane H. Healy wrote: >I've got to question how accurate this is. It lists Algol 68 as "Extinct", >which it defines as "No known active users or up-to-date compilers". There >are at least a few users in the PDP-10 community. Whilst I'd like a copy of Algol 68C to run on my emulated DECsystem-10, I'm more than coping with Algol 68G which is a front end to the gcc. I've successfully run some of my old Algol 68C code on my PWS500a running Linux and I have noticed a slight performance improvement :-) More on Algol 68G at http://www.xs4all.nl/~jmvdveer/algol.html >It also lists BCPL as being extinct, yet IIRC it's still being sold by a >company in Europe. Well you can get a very nice INTCODE interpreter written in c which allows you to run the BCPL compiler and also the generated INTCODE programs. If I understood more about gcc, I guess it would be relatively easy to generate a BCPL front end in the same way that has been done with Algol 68G. I should point out that the interpreter gives almost as good performance as the original DECsystem-10 compiled programs.... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From lincoln.fessenden at verizon.net Sat Jun 22 06:47:24 2002 From: lincoln.fessenden at verizon.net (linc fessenden) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: Vaxstation 3100 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020621234254.00a8f0f0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, Geoff Reed wrote: > So what OS will run on a vaxstation 3100? > I run NetBSD on all of mine - works wonderfully! -- -Linc Fessenden In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... From hartkw at emstar2.net Sat Jun 22 21:06:58 2002 From: hartkw at emstar2.net (hartkw) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: Minivac 601 Message-ID: <000a01c21a5a$a8f989a0$f5ed7ed8@hartk1> If you know of anyone interested in purchasing a Minivac 601 vintage computer, I just listed one for sale on ebay. Its item # is 2034003855 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020622/b02c0979/attachment.html From fdebros at verizon.net Sun Jun 23 15:26:58 2002 From: fdebros at verizon.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: Vaxstation 3100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601c21af4$534d4330$6501a8c0@fred> and... > So if you want a copy of the VS3100/38's system disk (540M Quantum > IIRC) I can dd it to another 540... Doc Does that really work??? Can I dd a netbsd 1.5.1 bootable disk to another similar size disk on a vs3100???? Without partinioning it??? You peaqued my interest. fred From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jun 24 02:56:38 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: Vaxstation 3100 In-Reply-To: <000601c21af4$534d4330$6501a8c0@fred> Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Jun 2002, Fred deBros wrote: > > and... > > > So if you want a copy of the VS3100/38's system disk (540M > Quantum > > IIRC) I can dd it to another 540... > Doc > > Does that really work??? > Can I dd a netbsd 1.5.1 bootable disk to another similar size disk on > a vs3100???? Without partinioning it??? In the experimentation I and my friends have done, that's an unqualified "maybe." It depends a lot on the relative drive geometries. If the geometry matches, you should be good to go. I think it also depends on whether you dd at the filesystem level or the raw device level. It works wonderfully on floppy disks and on CD-ROMs, and apparently works fitfully on hard drives. Doc From allain at panix.com Mon Jun 24 04:59:40 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: History x2 in 'Wired' References: Message-ID: <001901c21b65$dc011320$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >>A Wired-original 2-page history chart of all (about > > 75 total) popular computer languages since 1954. >The 75 "most important" would be nice, but "ALL"?!? I chose the words 'all popular' carefully, but perhaps Your languages list would be interesting to see. I'm mainly enthused that ancient computer languages would be a chosen topic at all at Wired. John A. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 22 12:47:16 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: Weird RAM In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Jun 21, 2 11:39:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1624 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020622/d8ed0a1d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 22 13:37:02 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: What's the best way to slurp up DEC RX50s? In-Reply-To: <20020622133356.56467.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jun 22, 2 06:33:56 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1560 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020622/edd038b9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 22 14:52:51 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: Speaking of IBM, Schematics for a ps/2 P70 power supply?? In-Reply-To: from "Greg Linder" at Jun 22, 2 12:51:03 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2272 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020622/e484cb58/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 22 13:25:39 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: Weird RAM In-Reply-To: <33094.64.169.63.74.1024731616.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Jun 22, 2 00:40:16 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1215 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020622/6d8071fe/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 22 12:51:59 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: 8" floppy drive question (was New Finds) In-Reply-To: <3D13F4B5.2F72F8F0@compsys.to> from "Jerome H. Fine" at Jun 21, 2 11:53:25 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1066 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020622/55ea452a/attachment.ksh From meltie at myrealbox.com Mon Jun 24 07:41:53 2002 From: meltie at myrealbox.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: QBUS memory Message-ID: <1024922515.2843.8.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> Hello guys I'm trying to resurrect a PDP 11/23 and we're in need of a QBUS memory card - does anyone have one for spare/swap? Thanks for your time Alex -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. From RCini at congressfinancial.com Mon Jun 24 08:13:25 2002 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Mystery EPROM programmer Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5126BBE@MAIL10> Hello, all: While cleaning up in the shop this weekend, I found what looks to be an EPROM programmer board. It's manufactured by Digital Matrix Associates with a part number of 6500-001-PWB. It's about the size of a STD BUS card (4.5" x 6") with a 22/44 pin edge connector and a right-angle 22/44 socket right above it. It has one ZIF socket and 4 empty sockets. Forgot to count the pins, though. It's either for an AIM65 or a KIM, but since I never labeled it when I got it, I can't remember. I'm guessing the AIM65, thought. Does anyone have any info on this card? Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From dpeschel at eskimo.com Mon Jun 24 05:41:15 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Re: any ISIS info out there? In-Reply-To: <20020624025825.A29649@eskimo.eskimo.com>; from dpeschel@eskimo.eskimo.com on Mon, Jun 24, 2002 at 02:58:26AM -0700 References: <20020624025825.A29649@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: <20020624034115.A1714@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Mon, Jun 24, 2002 at 02:58:26AM -0700, Derek Peschel wrote: > (Yes, Tony, we already talked about the front panel and monitor on one of > the Intellec systems, but I think this hardware/software is different.) At any rate the disk seems to have an additional ROM. Also the manual mentions system calls which aren't in the list of commands I have. -- Derek _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From dpeschel at eskimo.com Mon Jun 24 04:58:26 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] any ISIS info out there? Message-ID: <20020624025825.A29649@eskimo.eskimo.com> Since I've been curious about ISIS for some time, I was glad to finally borrow a copy of the _ISIS-II System User's Guide_. Comparing ISIS to CP/M is quite instructive. I already knew that CP/M has a few design flaws which ISIS lacks. On the other hand, I was surprised at how much memory ISIS takes up. And ISIS has its own design flaws (things are fatal errors that might be recoverable in CP/M, disk formatting can be quite complicated). Does anyone have details on the monitor, ICE80 (simulator), UPM (PROM programmer), or PLM80? I have seen the System/360 version of PL/M but I didn't realize it ran _on_ the 8080. (The manual implies that it does.) Having a system that can develop its own software is important, I would say. (Yes, Tony, we already talked about the front panel and monitor on one of the Intellec systems, but I think this hardware/software is different.) -- Derek _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From pcw at mesanet.com Mon Jun 24 09:13:01 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:36 2005 Subject: Vaxstation 3100 In-Reply-To: <000601c21af4$534d4330$6501a8c0@fred> Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Jun 2002, Fred deBros wrote: > > and... > > > So if you want a copy of the VS3100/38's system disk (540M > Quantum > > IIRC) I can dd it to another 540... > Doc > > Does that really work??? > Can I dd a netbsd 1.5.1 bootable disk to another similar size disk on > a vs3100???? Without partinioning it??? > > You peaqued my interest. > > fred > > Sure, as long as dd starts at the first sector, its a decent physical copy. I've done it with NetBSD, Ultrix, and HPUX on VS3100s, DS3100s, DS5000s and PARISC machines. works fine. I think it fails on some architectures (I386) where dd skips the partition table but I'm not really sure about that , just have not had luck with them. Peter Wallace From dtwright at uiuc.edu Mon Jun 24 09:28:27 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: Vaxstation 3100 In-Reply-To: References: <000601c21af4$534d4330$6501a8c0@fred> Message-ID: <20020624142827.GA5017628@uiuc.edu> Peter C. Wallace said: > > Sure, as long as dd starts at the first sector, its a decent physical > copy. I've done it with NetBSD, Ultrix, and HPUX on VS3100s, DS3100s, DS5000s > and PARISC machines. works fine. I think it fails on some architectures (I386) > where dd skips the partition table but I'm not really sure about that , just > have not had luck with them. I (more or less) works fine on I386 with linux, too, as long as your drives are the same geometry. If not, the first-stage loader gets real confused and you can't boot... though this can be fixed easily if you put the target drive in a working system and reinstall the bootloader (say, lilo) on it. > > > Peter Wallace - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From meltie at myrealbox.com Mon Jun 24 09:28:52 2002 From: meltie at myrealbox.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: RX50 -> QBUS Message-ID: <1024928935.3248.1.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> Is it possible to interface an RX50 unit to a QBUS? Which card would one need? Alex -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. From GOOI at oce.nl Mon Jun 24 09:41:10 2002 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: RX50 -> QBUS Message-ID: <30DBA2DACC0CD611B3E60008C7092D8F2F8E83@hqvenloexch.oce.nl> That's an easy question. Check the Field Guide: M7555 RQDX3 Q MFM Winchester and floppy disk controller M7555 (RX50/RX33/RD50-54/RD31/RD32/RD33) - Henk. http://home.hetnet.nl/~tshaj > -----Original Message----- > From: Alex White [mailto:meltie@myrealbox.com] > Sent: maandag 24 juni 2002 16:29 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RX50 -> QBUS > > > Is it possible to interface an RX50 unit to a QBUS? Which > card would one > need? > > Alex From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Jun 24 10:05:18 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: RX50 -> QBUS In-Reply-To: <1024928935.3248.1.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu>; from meltie@myrealbox.com on Mon, Jun 24, 2002 at 03:28:52PM +0100 References: <1024928935.3248.1.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> Message-ID: <20020624170518.A12496@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Mon, Jun 24, 2002 at 03:28:52PM +0100, Alex White wrote: > Is it possible to interface an RX50 unit to a QBUS? Yes. > Which card would one need? RQDX[123] and an appropriate distibution panel. (Typically the BA23 has one build in, for the BA123 is a double QBus card looking dist panel needed, there is also a special dist panel for the BA2xx series.) If you can't get a dist panel mail me, I can give you the wiring of the BA23 version. A RQDX3 should be easy to get for a few $ and is supported by most PDP11 OSes and all VAX OSes, as it is MSCP. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From meltie at myrealbox.com Mon Jun 24 09:55:04 2002 From: meltie at myrealbox.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: RX50 -> QBUS In-Reply-To: <30DBA2DACC0CD611B3E60008C7092D8F2F8E83@hqvenloexch.oce.nl> References: <30DBA2DACC0CD611B3E60008C7092D8F2F8E83@hqvenloexch.oce.nl> Message-ID: <1024930507.3351.3.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> On Mon, 2002-06-24 at 15:41, Gooijen H wrote: > That's an easy question. > Check the Field Guide: > M7555 RQDX3 Q MFM Winchester and floppy disk controller > M7555 (RX50/RX33/RD50-54/RD31/RD32/RD33) OK, and now the hard question: Is there a PDP OS that'll fit onto RX50 media and be bootable with the correct bootstrap/ODT? Alex (& greg) -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. From meltie at myrealbox.com Mon Jun 24 10:27:51 2002 From: meltie at myrealbox.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: final brainteaser for the day Message-ID: <1024932474.3873.0.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> Can you describe all the PDP OSen and variants out there? *grins* Alex -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 24 10:38:42 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: RX50 -> QBUS In-Reply-To: <1024930507.3351.3.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> Message-ID: <20020624153842.6079.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Alex White wrote: > On Mon, 2002-06-24 at 15:41, Gooijen H wrote: > > That's an easy question. > > Check the Field Guide: > > M7555 RQDX3 Q MFM Winchester and floppy disk controller > > M7555 (RX50/RX33/RD50-54/RD31/RD32/RD33) > OK, and now the hard question: Is there a PDP OS that'll fit onto RX50 > media and be bootable with the correct bootstrap/ODT? RT-11 -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jun 24 12:03:30 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Mystery EPROM programmer Message-ID: <200206241703.KAA25185@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Rich If this is the one I think it is, there should also be some RAM on the board as well. It should work with a KIM/SYM/AIM. I have one that I've used with my AIM. The software is simple. You just write to the address window for the EPROM a number of times and the EPROM gets programmed. As I recall, the board can be configued to do 2716's or 2732's. Poking around in your monitor can find the memory locations. Dwight >From: "Cini, Richard" > >Hello, all: > > While cleaning up in the shop this weekend, I found what looks to be >an EPROM programmer board. It's manufactured by Digital Matrix Associates >with a part number of 6500-001-PWB. > > It's about the size of a STD BUS card (4.5" x 6") with a 22/44 pin >edge connector and a right-angle 22/44 socket right above it. It has one ZIF >socket and 4 empty sockets. Forgot to count the pins, though. > > It's either for an AIM65 or a KIM, but since I never labeled it when >I got it, I can't remember. I'm guessing the AIM65, thought. > > Does anyone have any info on this card? > >Rich > >========================== >Richard A. Cini, Jr. >Congress Financial Corporation >1133 Avenue of the Americas >30th Floor >New York, NY 10036 >(212) 545-4402 >(212) 840-6259 (facsimile) > >_______________________________________________ >cctech mailing list >cctech@classiccmp.org >http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech > From lists at subatomix.com Mon Jun 24 12:23:21 2002 From: lists at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: final brainteaser for the day In-Reply-To: <1024932474.3873.0.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> References: <1024932474.3873.0.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> Message-ID: <14841933286.20020624122321@subatomix.com> On Monday, June 24, 2002, Alex White wrote: > Can you describe all the PDP OSen and variants out there? Ever been to Google? -- Jeffrey Sharp The email address lists@subatomix.com is for mailing list traffic. Please send off-list mail to roach jay ess ess at wasp subatomix beetle dot com. You may need to remove some bugs first. From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Mon Jun 24 13:14:37 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: Poly-88 tapes Message-ID: <200206241814.LAA25224@clulw009.amd.com> Hi All I have been recovering data from some old Poly-88 tapes. I've recovered the following: 1.Poly Tape based BASIC ( I also have a manual for this ) Programs for this BASIC 2. LANDER 3. STOCK 4. REVERSE 5. HAMURABI 6. CASHFLOW 7. A version of fig Forth 8. SMD ( Small Memory Dump from manual ) 9. TCPY ( a tape copy program that I wrote that only displays errors but doesn't stop. Useful for recovering bad tapes, keeping auto-start info and general copying of tapes ) 10. Poly Assembler ( I've not figured out how this works and I have no docs ). 11. SAVE, PEEK and POKE extensions, I wrote, for TinyBasic. 12. Last, I have image files for Tiny Basic to be put onto two 2708's that would go in the two empty sockets of the CPU board. A ^C would start TBASIC. I would be willing to make copies of all at cost for tapes and mailing. If anyone is interested, let me know? ( Sellam I. and Larry P. are already on my list ) If someone wants EPROMs for the TBASIC, I can program them for you, if you supply the EPROMs. Also, let me know if you want the tapes in Byte format, Poly format or both. Dwight From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Mon Jun 24 13:13:53 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: final brainteaser for the day References: <1024932474.3873.0.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> Message-ID: <3D176161.A83D0D8C@compsys.to> >Alex White wrote: > Can you describe all the PDP OSen and variants out there? > *grins* > Alex Jerome Fine replies: YES!! *grins* (You just asked "Can you" - not to actually describe them!) Now, to actually describe them "all", I don't think it is worth while to spend all that amount ot time (a few centuries) or the space. But, The major 3 are (there are many more): RSTS/E RSX-11 RT-11 which is the only one I currently use. It would take about 10 years to describe completely - the DOCs for V5.07 are about 18" high double-sided 8" * 11" sheets without the binders. The program listings for each distinct version of the operating system are about the same size and there are at least 2 major flavours, unmapped (RT11SB and RT11FB) and mapped (RT11XM and RT11ZM) with significant differences (15% to 25%) between the unmapped and mapped flavours. The listings for the utilities are probably another 48". The DOCs can be purchased. The source code licenses can also be purchased. DEC probably had internal documentation as well, but no information seems to be publicly available, including the DEC (and the Mentec) RT-11 Bug List. Megan Gentry can probably confirm the information about the DOCs and the source listings. There is probably an NDF (Non-Disclosure Agreement) that prevents anyone who knows about the "secret" stuff from even admitting that they know anything about the "secret" stuff. Otherwise, those who know and may even have copies could at least say how many pages of internal documentation existed and how many bugs are in the "secret" DEC (and the Mentec) RT-11 Bug List. *grin* Perhaps you can understand why I suggested it would take about ten years to completely describe RT-11. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Jun 24 13:36:51 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: final brainteaser for the day In-Reply-To: <3D176161.A83D0D8C@compsys.to> References: <1024932474.3873.0.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020624133651.00999730@ubanproductions.com> At 02:13 PM 6/24/02 -0400, you wrote: >>Alex White wrote: > >> Can you describe all the PDP OSen and variants out there? >> *grins* >> Alex > >Jerome Fine replies: > >YES!! >*grins* (You just asked "Can you" - not to actually describe them!) > >Now, to actually describe them "all", I don't think it is worth while >to spend all that amount ot time (a few centuries) or the space. But, >The major 3 are (there are many more): > >RSTS/E > >RSX-11 > >RT-11 which is the only one I currently use. It would take about >10 years to describe completely - the DOCs for V5.07 are about >18" high double-sided 8" * 11" sheets without the binders. The >program listings for each distinct version of the operating system >are about the same size and there are at least 2 major flavours, >unmapped (RT11SB and RT11FB) and mapped (RT11XM and >RT11ZM) with significant differences (15% to 25%) between >the unmapped and mapped flavours. The listings for the utilities >are probably another 48". The DOCs can be purchased. The >source code licenses can also be purchased. DEC probably had >internal documentation as well, but no information seems to be >publicly available, including the DEC (and the Mentec) RT-11 >Bug List. Megan Gentry can probably confirm the information >about the DOCs and the source listings. There is probably an >NDF (Non-Disclosure Agreement) that prevents anyone who >knows about the "secret" stuff from even admitting that they know >anything about the "secret" stuff. Otherwise, those who know and >may even have copies could at least say how many pages of internal >documentation existed and how many bugs are in the "secret" DEC >(and the Mentec) RT-11 Bug List. > >*grin* Perhaps you can understand why I suggested it would take >about ten years to completely describe RT-11. > >Sincerely yours, > >Jerome Fine >-- >If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail >address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk >e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be >obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the >'at' with the four digits of the current year. > > Now you've done it! Didn't you really mean to say that the major OSes are Unix V6, V7, 2.9, 2.10, 2.11, etc.? :-) --tom From classiccmp at mail.vintage-computer.com Mon Jun 24 13:34:57 2002 From: classiccmp at mail.vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: Insanity Message-ID: I was just monitoring this auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2032858555 For those who don't want to follow the link, it is a MITS Altair 8080 CPU board, rev 0, that sold for a whopping $787.77. The last one I saw sold for a bit over $250 and I thought THAT was insane. I was considering it as a spare. . . but not at 1/10th of that price. Stories of eBay's demise are greatly exaggerated! Erik From dmabry at mich.com Mon Jun 24 13:59:31 2002 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] any ISIS info out there? References: <20020624025825.A29649@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: <3D176C13.8E6E7C7B@mich.com> Hi Derek, I used ISIS-II extensively in its heyday. Today I have a few Intel MDS (Microcomputer Development Systems) that run ISIS-II along with the ICE80 (In-Circuit Emulator...quite a bit more powerful than a simulator), UPM, PL/M-80, and all the other development software/hardware that Intel made for the platform. ISIS-II is similar in concept to CP/M but quite a bit different in structure. BTW, I'm not sure why you say that diskette formatting was more complicated. ISIS-II used a different file structure than CP/M, but it wasn't all that much more complicated, as I recall. The formats for files was more structured with object module files having identifiers embedded in them rather than just being a stream of binary that was assumed to be loaded at 100H and contiguous from there. You see, Intel made the MDS's capable of developing code that could run under ISIS-II, but its main purpose in life was to develop code that could run on any hardware platform as long as it used an Intel processor. Therefore it was much more flexible in that respect. There is a huge stack of documentation that was published by Intel on the MDS's and all their programming tools. If you have some specific questions, maybe I can help. Also, you have a wealth of other sources here in Tony Duell and Joe Rigdon, and others I'm sure. Fire away!!! Dave Derek Peschel wrote: > > Since I've been curious about ISIS for some time, I was glad to finally > borrow a copy of the _ISIS-II System User's Guide_. Comparing ISIS to > CP/M is quite instructive. I already knew that CP/M has a few design > flaws which ISIS lacks. On the other hand, I was surprised at how much > memory ISIS takes up. And ISIS has its own design flaws (things are fatal > errors that might be recoverable in CP/M, disk formatting can be quite > complicated). > > Does anyone have details on the monitor, ICE80 (simulator), UPM (PROM > programmer), or PLM80? I have seen the System/360 version of PL/M but > I didn't realize it ran _on_ the 8080. (The manual implies that it does.) > Having a system that can develop its own software is important, I would say. > > (Yes, Tony, we already talked about the front panel and monitor on one of > the Intellec systems, but I think this hardware/software is different.) > > -- Derek > _______________________________________________ > cctech mailing list > cctech@classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From blacklord at telstra.com Mon Jun 24 14:49:35 2002 From: blacklord at telstra.com (blacklord) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: Unitron U2200 Message-ID: <2d0abd2d4ec0.2d4ec02d0abd@bigpond.com> Turned up this machine today - Apple II clone isn't it ? This one comes with dual drive, mono monitor, 80 colum card & serial card. Machine boots, but I don't have either DOS or CP/M disks for it. I intend cleaning her up & offering her on eBay, is it wort anything or should I just ditch it ? cheers, Lance ---------------- Powered by telstra.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jun 24 15:38:06 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: final brainteaser for the day In-Reply-To: from "Jerome H. Fine" at Jun 24, 2002 02:13:53 PM Message-ID: <200206242038.g5OKc6932233@shell1.aracnet.com> > > >Alex White wrote: > > > Can you describe all the PDP OSen and variants out there? > > *grins* > > Alex > > Jerome Fine replies: > > YES!! > *grins* (You just asked "Can you" - not to actually describe them!) > > Now, to actually describe them "all", I don't think it is worth while > to spend all that amount ot time (a few centuries) or the space. But, > The major 3 are (there are many more): > > RSTS/E > > RSX-11 Shoot, that one statement covers, what, 9 OS's? > RT-11 There are so MANY more than this! For a partial list see the PDP-11 Emulation Webpage: http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/pdp11emu.html For a "complete" list see: http://www.village.org/pdp-11/faq.pages/pdpOSes.html Depending on how you count there is something like 20-34 different OS's. Zane From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Jun 24 15:50:40 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: final brainteaser for the day In-Reply-To: <200206242038.g5OKc6932233@shell1.aracnet.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020624155040.009b2140@ubanproductions.com> >There are so MANY more than this! > >For a partial list see the PDP-11 Emulation Webpage: >http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/pdp11emu.html > >For a "complete" list see: >http://www.village.org/pdp-11/faq.pages/pdpOSes.html > >Depending on how you count there is something like 20-34 different OS's. > > Zane > > Not listed on the "complete" list is XINU, which is an educational operating system developed at Purdue University by Dr. Comer (his students, and others) and was taught on LSI-11s for a number of years before newer more modern processors took their place. "XINU" == "Xinu Is Not Unix" --tom From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jun 24 15:52:28 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: Weird RAM In-Reply-To: <33094.64.169.63.74.1024731616.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: > Apple used those in the Apple ///. OK. My first guess would be Lisa, being totally strange and against the grain. My other guess is that Woz got a good deal on these at a local surplus shop. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jun 24 16:00:53 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: final brainteaser for the day In-Reply-To: from "Tom Uban" at Jun 24, 2002 03:50:40 PM Message-ID: <200206242100.g5OL0r501014@shell1.aracnet.com> > Not listed on the "complete" list is XINU, which is an educational > operating system developed at Purdue University by Dr. Comer (his > students, and others) and was taught on LSI-11s for a number of > years before newer more modern processors took their place. > > "XINU" == "Xinu Is Not Unix" > > --tom Hmmm, in taking another look at the list, I'm guessing that the author chose to group all UNIX varients except Ultrix and Venix under "UNIX". Kind of odd when you consider how many RSX varients are listed. Zane From meltie at myrealbox.com Mon Jun 24 16:07:04 2002 From: meltie at myrealbox.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: final brainteaser for the day In-Reply-To: <200206242100.g5OL0r501014@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200206242100.g5OL0r501014@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <1024952828.4998.23.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> On Mon, 2002-06-24 at 22:00, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > Not listed on the "complete" list is XINU, which is an educational > > operating system developed at Purdue University by Dr. Comer (his > > students, and others) and was taught on LSI-11s for a number of > > years before newer more modern processors took their place. > > > > "XINU" == "Xinu Is Not Unix" > > > > --tom > > Hmmm, in taking another look at the list, I'm guessing that the author chose > to group all UNIX varients except Ultrix and Venix under "UNIX". Kind of > odd when you consider how many RSX varients are listed. There's UNIX than System 6, 7, 2.11BSD, 2.9BSD, Unix and Venix for the PDP? Google didne turn this up for me... ;) Alex -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. Boink like she's the first women you've ever seen naked. From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Jun 24 16:13:14 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: final brainteaser for the day In-Reply-To: <200206242100.g5OL0r501014@shell1.aracnet.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020624161314.009b47c0@ubanproductions.com> At 02:00 PM 6/24/02 -0700, you wrote: >> Not listed on the "complete" list is XINU, which is an educational >> operating system developed at Purdue University by Dr. Comer (his >> students, and others) and was taught on LSI-11s for a number of >> years before newer more modern processors took their place. >> >> "XINU" == "Xinu Is Not Unix" >> >> --tom > >Hmmm, in taking another look at the list, I'm guessing that the author chose >to group all UNIX varients except Ultrix and Venix under "UNIX". Kind of >odd when you consider how many RSX varients are listed. > > Zane > Then they are mistaken. It is XINU is not Unix, not is it similar other then having an open, close, read, write, ioctl API construct. --tom From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Jun 24 16:19:01 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: final brainteaser for the day In-Reply-To: <1024952828.4998.23.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> References: <200206242100.g5OL0r501014@shell1.aracnet.com> <200206242100.g5OL0r501014@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020624161901.009a3460@ubanproductions.com> At 10:07 PM 6/24/02 +0100, you wrote: >On Mon, 2002-06-24 at 22:00, Zane H. Healy wrote: >> > Not listed on the "complete" list is XINU, which is an educational >> > operating system developed at Purdue University by Dr. Comer (his >> > students, and others) and was taught on LSI-11s for a number of >> > years before newer more modern processors took their place. >> > >> > "XINU" == "Xinu Is Not Unix" >> > >> > --tom >> >> Hmmm, in taking another look at the list, I'm guessing that the author chose >> to group all UNIX varients except Ultrix and Venix under "UNIX". Kind of >> odd when you consider how many RSX varients are listed. >There's UNIX than System 6, 7, 2.11BSD, 2.9BSD, Unix and Venix for the >PDP? Google didne turn this up for me... ;) > >Alex > Check here: http://minnie.tuhs.org/PUPS/ (The Unix Preservation Society) --tom From meltie at myrealbox.com Mon Jun 24 16:20:12 2002 From: meltie at myrealbox.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: final brainteaser for the day In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20020624161901.009a3460@ubanproductions.com> References: <200206242100.g5OL0r501014@shell1.aracnet.com> <200206242100.g5OL0r501014@shell1.aracnet.com> <3.0.5.32.20020624161901.009a3460@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <1024953615.4859.27.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> On Mon, 2002-06-24 at 22:19, Tom Uban wrote: > At 10:07 PM 6/24/02 +0100, you wrote: > >On Mon, 2002-06-24 at 22:00, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >> > Not listed on the "complete" list is XINU, which is an educational > >> > operating system developed at Purdue University by Dr. Comer (his > >> > students, and others) and was taught on LSI-11s for a number of > >> > years before newer more modern processors took their place. > >> > > >> > "XINU" == "Xinu Is Not Unix" > >> > > >> > --tom > >> > >> Hmmm, in taking another look at the list, I'm guessing that the author > chose > >> to group all UNIX varients except Ultrix and Venix under "UNIX". Kind of > >> odd when you consider how many RSX varients are listed. > >There's UNIX than System 6, 7, 2.11BSD, 2.9BSD, Ultrix and Venix for the > >PDP? Google didne turn this up for me... ;) ^ > > | > >Alex correction! > > > > Check here: http://minnie.tuhs.org/PUPS/ (The Unix Preservation Society) OK, 6th Ed, 7th Ed, 2.9BSD and 2.11BSD, which i've already listed, and 5th Ed, Mini-unix. Any more for any more? Alex -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. Boink like she's the first women you've ever seen naked. From dpeschel at eskimo.com Mon Jun 24 16:24:23 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] any ISIS info out there? In-Reply-To: <3D176C13.8E6E7C7B@mich.com>; from dmabry@mich.com on Mon, Jun 24, 2002 at 02:59:31PM -0400 References: <20020624025825.A29649@eskimo.eskimo.com> <3D176C13.8E6E7C7B@mich.com> Message-ID: <20020624142423.B27058@eskimo.eskimo.com> > I used ISIS-II extensively in its heyday. Today I have a few Intel MDS > (Microcomputer Development Systems) that run ISIS-II along with the > ICE80 (In-Circuit Emulator...quite a bit more powerful than a > simulator), UPM, PL/M-80, and all the other development Does ICE80 interface with a real ICE, then? I thought it might have been marketing-speak similar to SoftICE. > BTW, I'm not sure why you say that diskette formatting was more > complicated. ISIS-II used a different file structure than CP/M, but it > wasn't all that much more complicated, as I recall. The formats for I was talking about the procedure to format disks, not the design of the disk format. You can't format a nonsystem disk and then turn it into a system disk later. The procedure for a one-drive system is especially complicated. BTW I like the idea of the "magic files" (ISIS.DIR and its relatives) but I don't see why they have a special "format" attribute in the directory. Doesn't the kernel recognize them by name already? > files was more structured with object module files having identifiers > embedded in them rather than just being a stream of binary that was > assumed to be loaded at 100H and contiguous from there. You see, Intel That relates to one of the flaws in CP/M that I mentioned. DRI assumed you would be doing your own assembly and would know your own memory size, so there's no portable way (that I know of) to find the locations of the CCP, BIOS, and BDOS. With the MDS you can find the size of the first contiguous block of RAM. Unfortunately (I didn't realize this until I read the user guide) the _starting_ address of your program could vary if the number of buffers is different, so finding the end of free memory isn't as useful as it could be. I suppose you could reLOCATE your program though. The other flaw in CP/M is that the "change disk" and "reboot" functions are inseparable. ISIS doesn't need to be told when a disk changes but it does seem to have the same reliance on rebooting. > the MDS's and all their programming tools. If you have some specific > questions, maybe I can help. Also, you have a wealth of other sources > here in Tony Duell and Joe Rigdon, and others I'm sure. OK, you asked for it... Do you know how much ISIS was tied to the IBM 3740 disk geometry? What exactly is the purpose of all that switch-flipping at boot time? Did anyone ever replace the text editor with a CRT-oriented one? Did Intel publish the source code to any part of the system? -- Derek From dmabry at mich.com Mon Jun 24 17:49:23 2002 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] any ISIS info out there? References: <20020624025825.A29649@eskimo.eskimo.com> <3D176C13.8E6E7C7B@mich.com> <20020624142423.B27058@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: <3D17A1F3.60C7E386@mich.com> Ok, I'll give this the first shot. Anyone else familiar with ISIS feel free to chime in. Derek Peschel wrote: > > > I used ISIS-II extensively in its heyday. Today I have a few Intel MDS > > (Microcomputer Development Systems) that run ISIS-II along with the > > ICE80 (In-Circuit Emulator...quite a bit more powerful than a > > simulator), UPM, PL/M-80, and all the other development > > Does ICE80 interface with a real ICE, then? I thought it might have been > marketing-speak similar to SoftICE. ICE80 is the software that uses a two-board set of Multibus boards. The boards were hosted in the MDS and the software then controlled program execution on them. There was an umbilico that went to the target system and replaced the 8080 chip. From that point you could execute the target code, either from memory that resided on the target system or from RAM in the MDS that was "mapped" to the target. > > > BTW, I'm not sure why you say that diskette formatting was more > > complicated. ISIS-II used a different file structure than CP/M, but it > > wasn't all that much more complicated, as I recall. The formats for > > I was talking about the procedure to format disks, not the design of > the disk format. You can't format a nonsystem disk and then turn it > into a system disk later. The procedure for a one-drive system is > especially complicated. > > BTW I like the idea of the "magic files" (ISIS.DIR and its relatives) > but I don't see why they have a special "format" attribute in the directory. > Doesn't the kernel recognize them by name already? The IDISK command (ISIS's version of format) would physically format the diskettes and then write the appropriate system files. If the diskette was to be bootable then more was written for that purpose. True that you can't change a non-bootable to a bootable diskette without re-IDISKing. On the other hand, though, there was no unused space on a non-bootable diskette like there was in CP/M. The non-bootable diskette in CP/M just had empty space where the boot code went. You could remove the "F"ormat attribute from the ISIS.* files and the system would not have any problems. I don't remember exactly why it was there, other than it served as a read-only function. > > > files was more structured with object module files having identifiers > > embedded in them rather than just being a stream of binary that was > > assumed to be loaded at 100H and contiguous from there. You see, Intel > > That relates to one of the flaws in CP/M that I mentioned. DRI assumed > you would be doing your own assembly and would know your own memory size, > so there's no portable way (that I know of) to find the locations of the > CCP, BIOS, and BDOS. > > With the MDS you can find the size of the first contiguous block of RAM. > Unfortunately (I didn't realize this until I read the user guide) the > _starting_ address of your program could vary if the number of buffers > is different, so finding the end of free memory isn't as useful as it > could be. I suppose you could reLOCATE your program though. > > The other flaw in CP/M is that the "change disk" and "reboot" functions > are inseparable. ISIS doesn't need to be told when a disk changes but > it does seem to have the same reliance on rebooting. As I recall, and this is fuzzy for me, the starting address for ISIS programs was generally the same on all systems, but it was ABOVE the operating system which loaded in low memory. There was a default for the number of file buffers that was assumed by the LOCATE program unless overridden. You could then use anything above your starting address up to the limit of physical RAM. Now since these machines were relatively expensive, most of them had the full complement of 64k. You are correct in that you didn't have to tell the OS when you changed diskettes. This was done automatically by ISIS by reading one of the ISIS.* files. ISIS.BIN I think. That was a bitmap of the free sectors on the disk. > > > the MDS's and all their programming tools. If you have some specific > > questions, maybe I can help. Also, you have a wealth of other sources > > here in Tony Duell and Joe Rigdon, and others I'm sure. > > OK, you asked for it... > > Do you know how much ISIS was tied to the IBM 3740 disk geometry? Not at all, since Intel supplied as an option a double density controller board set that was not compatible with the 3740 disk geometry. But you would have had to take ISIS apart to find the disk I/O routines. Intel never published that information and I have only heard of one other person (he's on this list I believe) who put ISIS onto non-Intel development system hardware. > > What exactly is the purpose of all that switch-flipping at boot time? I'm assuming you mean on the MDS-800 family of development systems. It switched in and out of memory map a rom that controlled bootstrapping code. On later system models (the Series II and on) that was handled automatically. > > Did anyone ever replace the text editor with a CRT-oriented one? Intel supplied an editor as a separate product called CREDIT (CRt EDIT). It was screen oriented and was a vast improvement over the TECO editor that was standard on ISIS. However I knew a few who liked the TECO editor enough that they preferred it over CREDIT. Later Intel offered one called ALTER. It was _much_ nicer. Due to a copyright dispute Intel had to change the name of that editor to AEDIT. They also released a 16-bit version for the Series-III and later systems. AEDIT-86 was written to use a UDI (Universal Development Interface) to hook to the operating system. In that way Intel could release AEDIT to work with any system as long as there was a UDI for that system. Their RMX-86 operating system could use AEDIT and Intel also wrote a UDI for MS-DOS. I use AEDIT today on my PC for simple text editing. It is a very easy to use and powerful text editor and is about 32k in size. > > Did Intel publish the source code to any part of the system? Not that I know of. There are those who have taken the system apart. I have a good article from Dr. Dobbs that documents a lot of the innards. If you like I can e-mail a scan of it to you. > > -- Derek Whew, that wasn't so bad. Next? -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jun 24 18:40:06 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: final brainteaser for the day In-Reply-To: <1024953615.4859.27.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> from "Alex White" at Jun 24, 2002 10:20:12 PM Message-ID: <200206242340.g5ONe6n11746@shell1.aracnet.com> > > Check here: http://minnie.tuhs.org/PUPS/ (The Unix Preservation Society) > > OK, 6th Ed, 7th Ed, 2.9BSD and 2.11BSD, which i've already listed, and > 5th Ed, Mini-unix. Any more for any more? > > Alex I think all the ones ealier than 5th Edition are missing. Also, BSD covers a lot more territory than 2.9BSD and 2.11BSD. If the above is supposed to be a more or less complete list you've got to add Ultrix-11 and Venix. Zane From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 24 17:34:15 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] any ISIS info out there? In-Reply-To: <20020624025825.A29649@eskimo.eskimo.com> from "Derek Peschel" at Jun 24, 2 02:58:26 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2543 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020624/f77d7103/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 24 17:36:56 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: RX50 -> QBUS In-Reply-To: <1024928935.3248.1.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> from "Alex White" at Jun 24, 2 03:28:52 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 274 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020624/2115f10c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 24 17:38:21 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: RX50 -> QBUS In-Reply-To: <1024930507.3351.3.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> from "Alex White" at Jun 24, 2 03:55:04 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 337 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020624/c6bb9036/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 24 17:43:58 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: final brainteaser for the day In-Reply-To: <1024932474.3873.0.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> from "Alex White" at Jun 24, 2 04:27:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 911 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020624/12d80ee7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 24 18:49:41 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] any ISIS info out there? In-Reply-To: <20020624142423.B27058@eskimo.eskimo.com> from "Derek Peschel" at Jun 24, 2 02:24:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 672 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020625/3ee18b27/attachment.ksh From meltie at myrealbox.com Mon Jun 24 19:20:53 2002 From: meltie at myrealbox.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: final brainteaser for the day In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1024964456.2696.2.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> On Mon, 2002-06-24 at 23:43, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Can you describe all the PDP OSen and variants out there? > > _ALL_ of them???? You are joking, right? Nope. > Various languages including their own OS (Single user BASIC, Multi-user > BASIC, MINC BASIC, Forth, etc) Forth! There's a bootable forth around? That'd be fantastic... > And you want me to _describe_ all of those... I think I should have said 'list'. Alex From meltie at myrealbox.com Mon Jun 24 19:29:24 2002 From: meltie at myrealbox.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: final brainteaser for the day In-Reply-To: <1024964456.2696.2.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> References: <1024964456.2696.2.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> Message-ID: <1024964967.2696.6.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> On Tue, 2002-06-25 at 01:20, Alex White wrote: > > Various languages including their own OS (Single user BASIC, Multi-user > > BASIC, MINC BASIC, Forth, etc) > Forth! There's a bootable forth around? That'd be fantastic... SOL-11? *interest is piqued now* Alex -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. Boink like she's the first women you've ever seen naked. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 24 19:37:29 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: final brainteaser for the day In-Reply-To: <1024964456.2696.2.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> from "Alex White" at Jun 25, 2 01:20:53 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 858 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020625/f27e9e26/attachment.ksh From meltie at myrealbox.com Mon Jun 24 19:46:22 2002 From: meltie at myrealbox.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: final brainteaser for the day In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1024965985.2957.2.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> On Tue, 2002-06-25 at 01:37, Tony Duell wrote: > [PDP11] > > > Forth! There's a bootable forth around? That'd be fantastic... > > There _was_... > I think the only disk it supported (both for booting and for > reading/writing screens) was the RX01 (and maybe later the RX02). It > would be possible to modify the disk I/O code to handle other devices, I > guess. There goes the short-lived dream of a Forth box then. We've basically got either RX50 or TK50 to boot from. Alex -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. Boink like she's the first wamen you've ever seen naked. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jun 24 19:55:07 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: final brainteaser for the day In-Reply-To: <1024965985.2957.2.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> from "Alex White" at Jun 25, 2 01:46:22 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 436 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020625/c3623a05/attachment.ksh From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Mon Jun 24 20:35:55 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? Message-ID: <20020625013734.GZYH14193.imf16bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Michael Passer > Being a little hard on Yugo there, aren't we :)? The thing I remember most > about Packard Bell was that a friend of my wife's bought one (without asking > my advice), needed some help, and it had tamper resistant seals over the > edges that asserted a voided warranty if the case was opened. My thoughts > were along the lines of "how dare they?" They *dare* because of the customers. People who would never dream of working on a TV set will eagerly open a PC and cause all kinds of havoc. I use warranty labels in my shop, and the warranty is VOID if the seal is broken, but if I know the customer has a reasonable level of skill, tempered with caution, I tell them not to worry about breaking the seal. I don't sell motherboards any more, for the same reason. Last one I sold was a dual-processor Asus board (not cheap) and the customer returned it one hour later with an area about 3" x 5" on the board *charred black* on both sides of the board. He claimed I sold him "junk" and was in my face when I told him I wouldn't replace it. Fortunately there was an off-duty deputy sheriff in the store at the time . . . absolutely not worth the hassle. Warranty seals *do* have their uses . . . Glen 0/0 If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if not now, when? -- Pirkei Avot From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Jun 24 20:52:54 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? In-Reply-To: <20020625013734.GZYH14193.imf16bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020624214702.02ba6db8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Glen Goodwin may have mentioned these words: > > From: Michael Passer > > > Being a little hard on Yugo there, aren't we :)? The thing I remember >most > > about Packard Bell was that a friend of my wife's bought one (without >asking > > my advice), needed some help, and it had tamper resistant seals over the > > edges that asserted a voided warranty if the case was opened. My thoughts > > were along the lines of "how dare they?" > >They *dare* because of the customers. People who would never dream of >working on a TV set will eagerly open a PC and cause all kinds of havoc. I >use warranty labels in my shop, and the warranty is VOID if the seal is >broken, but if I know the customer has a reasonable level of skill, >tempered with caution, I tell them not to worry about breaking the seal. Tandy & others did this as well... My CoCos always had one screw taped over with a tamper seal - if it was punched, they wouldn't warranty it. Granted, it didn't take long for the 90-day warranties to expire, and when I was more experienced with computers I knew I could fix anything necessary inside one of my machines, so I didn't care... (just like my Tivo - The only reason I didn't open it within the first 24 hours of owning it was because I had to work late that day... :-) Now, what really bugs me is when I see PackardHells, Acers & more recently Gateways that have "Quality Seals" -- what always goes thru my mind is: "What... did they need these to keep the quality *Out*???" ;-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Mon Jun 24 20:56:19 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? Message-ID: <20020625015758.JTZA3717.imf10bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Richard Erlacher > I don't have a problem with passwords in this case. What does puzzle me, > however, is that the software installation from the PB CD's doesn't seem to > work at all. Richard, I can tell you from direct experience that there are lots of PBs and Compaqs out there which the "factory restore disks" won't work on. Also, those restore disks are usually full of crap software which will chew up half the HD with garbage nobody wants. Your best bet is to do a clean Win9x installation, then install the required drivers for whatever devices are present. > I've tried to reinstall the OS, since the OS on the main drive > was Win98, yet the CD set and the doc's in the files on the system suggest > it's supposed to be Win95 Those units shipped with Win95, so somebody must have "upgraded" the OS. > and I'm unable to install the tv-card software, > either for want of directions or for want of brains, and possibly both. It > should work with the original CD's, but apparently it's more than meets the > eye. Take Joe's advice & grab the FCC ID # off the individual cards. You can then at least locate the real manufacturer at the FCC site or driverguide.com. Win9x has built-in drivers for the basic video functions but does not have the code for the TV stuff; once again, driverguide.com will probably help. Also, you've probably got an Aztech sound/modem combo in there. I have drivers for most of these so shoot me the FCC ID and I'll email you the drivers. Glen 0/0 If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if not now, when? -- Pirkei Avot From passerm at umkc.edu Mon Jun 24 20:06:33 2002 From: passerm at umkc.edu (Michael Passer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? In-Reply-To: <20020625013734.GZYH14193.imf16bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> References: <20020625013734.GZYH14193.imf16bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <200206242106.33750.passerm@umkc.edu> > They *dare* because of the customers. People who would never dream of > working on a TV set will eagerly open a PC and cause all kinds of havoc. I > use warranty labels in my shop, and the warranty is VOID if the seal is > broken, but if I know the customer has a reasonable level of skill, > tempered with caution, I tell them not to worry about breaking the seal. PCs, unlike televisions, are sold as being user-upgradable--it is no more "servicing" to add a card or drive to a PC than adding a component to a high-end stereo is. I would probably be frustrated myself if customers tried to return items they destroyed. It's certainly your prerogative to sell PCs with warranty stickers. To me, though, that's a deal-killer, absent the kind of relationship you appear to have with your knowledgeable customers. --Mike From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Mon Jun 24 21:37:37 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: final brainteaser for the day In-Reply-To: References: <1024932474.3873.0.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020625123430.00b08ab8@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 11:43 PM 24/06/2002 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Can you describe all the PDP OSen and variants out there? > >_ALL_ of them???? You are joking, right? To which we can add UCSD Pascal (which was a programming language and operating environment). Two others that come to mind are the operating system written in Concurrent Pascal and described in Per Brinch Hansen's book and the operating system in the Cm* parallel cluster. For someone who's used RT-11 for about a day, 2.11BSD for about a month and taught PDP-11 assembly language programming on a VAX-11/780 for a year, I seem to have picked up a bit about PDP-11s :-) Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jun 24 21:55:07 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? In-Reply-To: <20020625013734.GZYH14193.imf16bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > I don't sell motherboards any more, for the same reason. Last one I sold > was a dual-processor Asus board (not cheap) and the customer returned it > one hour later with an area about 3" x 5" on the board *charred black* on > both sides of the board. He claimed I sold him "junk" and was in my face > when I told him I wouldn't replace it. Fortunately there was an off-duty > deputy sheriff in the store at the time . . . absolutely not worth the > hassle. Then there's the other side -- I recently paid for a replacement m/b going into a customer's machine because a BIOS flash failed. We specced the box for hardware ATA RAID, and got the right board, but a BIOS revision that doesn't allow reconfiguration of the initial RAID setup. (Asus A7V333 w/RAID, firmware rev 1.04) I've flashed literally dozens of motherboards and only had one failure [1]. Even though the dealer knows me, knows I'm skilled, knows that that revision is notorious for dying on updates, and agreed that that rev was useless for us, my attempt at flashing the firmware voided the warranty on a 2-day-old motherboard. Then he told me they would not have flashed it for me, as "We just don't do that." I usually stay religiously away from other peoples x86 hardware, for all the above reasons, including Glen's. Plus, to use my favorite auto analogy, if selling a car was like selling a PC, I'd have to: Teach you to drive it Tune it & do oil changes for the life of the car Replace the carburetor with the Super Duper 8-Barrel 95 mpg $25 aftermarket part you bought at some flea market AND make it perform to the sales spec. Tell you exactly what's wrong with your auntie's car on the strength of "It's not running right" Call the state highway department and find out whether the road you want to drive is closed or congested, or you're just taking the wrong turn, at 3:00am (drunken voice "I've been dialing AOL for 20 minutes and I can't get on. What the hell is wrong with this modem?") And of course, all that for free. [1] I intentionally pulled the plug on that one - a Gateway-rebadged Intel board that wouldn't update with Intel firmware. It also had a failsafe boot feature, so I interrupted a Gateway firmware flash, and failsafe-booted into an Intel firmware image. It worked. Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Jun 24 22:00:55 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:37 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? In-Reply-To: <20020625015758.JTZA3717.imf10bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > Also, you've probably got an Aztech sound/modem combo in there. I have > drivers for most of these so shoot me the FCC ID and I'll email you the > drivers. Better yet, just shoot the combo card & bust off $4 for an old soundblaster and a good 14.4 modem. Aztech made some really good sound hardware, but those combos aren't it. The modems don't even bear mention. I've not seen one ever stay up, unless you have a super-clean line. Doc From marvin at rain.org Mon Jun 24 22:13:47 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: IBM Laserprinter Font Cards References: Message-ID: <3D17DFEB.52735BAC@rain.org> In the process of getting rid of stuff I don't particularly care to collect, I have 10 IBM Laserprinter Font Cards. The P/Ns (they all begin with 1255) are 800, 801, 803, 806, 807, 808, 825, 826, 828, and 829. $20.00 for all including US shipping. This message may post again. The first time I sent it, I got a message that a moderator would have to approve the message. Apparently he is asleep as that was 8+ hours ago. From jingber at ix.netcom.com Mon Jun 24 22:23:35 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: Needs to Go: NeXT Color Printer Message-ID: <1024975420.1327.9.camel@netfinity> I have a NeXT Color Printer that I need to get rid of. Appears to have never have been used, as there is no trace of ink in the lines that is present once the printer has initially had ink installed. Good shape overall. I have no ink for this printer, but I believe compatible inks may be available. Also includes the manual and paper bale. Will let go for the cost of shipping (USPS) from 33327 (FT. Lauderdale, FL). Will also trade for a working Apple Profile. LMK, Jeff From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Mon Jun 24 21:52:34 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: Anyone Care About RT-11 Message-ID: <3D17DAF2.1FDD5CFE@compsys.to> In regard to the Freeware CDs for RSX-11 and RT-11 If you are not receiving this paragraph as part of an individual message, then you are not on my list of individuals who may wish to receive their own copies of the CDs. In that case, please reply so that you can be placed on my list when I send out an e-mail with my address. At that time, unless otherwise requested, I will send out a single e-mail to all of the individuals who have expressed an interest - so that you will all know who each other are and have e-mail addresses with which to correspond to each other. Currently, there are 12 individuals on the list in addition to Tim Shoppa. This individual reply will probably be the last before I send you my address so you can send the funds for as many of the 3 CDs that you wish to have. The only thing left is to try and obtain a file which contains the image of the label on the CD. Some of you have received these CDs from Tim Shoppa and for accuracy, I would like to duplicate the actual label that Tim used. If anyone who already has a copy of any of the 3 CDs could help by providing a file that can be sent to a laser printer to produce the labels, that would be appreciated. If I have not received a positive response within a few weeks, then if someone who already has the RSX-11 CDs can at least provide me with the words on both the ".iso" and the "ods1" CDs, that would be second best. I already have the words to be used with the RT-11 CD. I have now finished the verification tasks that I feel are needed to ensure that I am producing correct images. I will be making some copies of the CD images from: ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/cd-images/ http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/ http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/ http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RSX-11/ that I have downloaded and wish to offload from my hard disk drive. I have verified each of the 2 RSX-11 and the 1 RT-11 images against the MD5 values in the file MD5SUMS and they are the same. After I copied the images on my hard drive to the CD, I verified them against their respective images in their hard drive files. To do so, I used RT-11 and BINCOM (with some of my own modifications which allows me to also verify block 65535 at the end of each RT-11 partition). Since there are a maximum of 20 RT-11 partitions on each CD and each BINCOM run takes me less than 30 seconds, the whole comparison can be done in less than 10 minutes - which is about the length of time it takes to make the CD copy in the first place. Since there might be a number of individuals who can't download at a reasonable speed (even with DSL it takes about 3 hours each at about 30 KBytes per second as compared with about 3 KBytes per second on a dial up line), I am prepared to make additional copies (Tim Shoppa no longer seems to have the time to do so) and make them available at my cost (for media, label, envelope and shipping carton plus postage to the US) and make them available at my cost of about $ 5 / $ 8 / $ 10 for 1 / 2 / 3 CDs. If you prefer to have me use Maxell Black brand CDs which I have been told last about twice as long, the cost will be $ 1 more per CD. Note that all the prices are in US dollars for destinations in the US and postage from Canada. If you are in a different country, the postage will be different. I have yet to verify these prices to be sure that they cover my costs, in particular the postage after the CD is ready to be mailed, but I am 99% sure they should be adequate. Note that the images at Tim's site are ".bz2" files while the images at classiccmp are ".gz" images. For myself (Windows 98 and Netscape 4.78) DOES NOT WORK with the ".gz" images (since the file is automatically expanded - and the result is incorrect), but Carlos Murillo sent me a Windows 98 version of wget which does work, I suppose on any file. By the way, I tried to hold the SHIFT key down while I was clicking my way through the download procedures of the ".gz" files under Netscape and that did not help. Note that the images at the classiccmp site are ".gz" files, so they are slightly larger. Since I did my original download from the full size images, I did not initially have a problem with expanding. However, after I successfully downloaded the ".gz" files with wget, I used WinZip under Windows 98. After I downloaded the ".bz2" files, I used bzip2 to expand them under Windows 98. Both expanded files were identical to the full size image, so obviously all three produced the correct MD5 value. If you need help and are running Windows 98 or a compatible OS, I can send you copies of both "bzip2.exe" and "MD5.exe", but not for others OSs. For other OSs (and Windows 98) for bzip2 programs, see: http://sources.redhat.com/bzip2/ and click on either: PC, Windows 95/98/ME/NT/2000/XP PC, Windows 95/98/NT/2000. for bzip2.exe - I was advised to use the second older version and did - it worked fine under Windows 98. For MD5 programs, see either: ftp://ftp.cerias.purdue.edu/pub/tools/unix/crypto/md5/ http://www.fourmilab.ch/md5/ I obtained my MD5 programs at the first site. By the way, for myself, I would VERY much appreciate being in touch with all individuals who have a copy of the RT-11 Freeware CD V2.0 so that we might exchange information about RT-11. Tim Shoppa felt that he might be violating privacy concerns if he made the names, of those who ordered the CD, available. I don't see it that way, so if you want your name to be known along with the other individuals (or not as the case may be - i.e. restrict that you have a copy of the RT-11 CD to ONLY specified individuals such as possibly just myself) so that you can receive interesting information about new developments in RT-11 and the status of the operating system, then PLEASE contact me so that we can share information. Also state if you want to be known to the entire group of just to specified individuals such as myself. PLUS, as for TSX-PLUS, I am going to try again to knock at the door of S&H to see what they may consider for hobby users. Some of you have already expressed an interest in the CDs. I hope that I have sent a personal copy of this post. If I somehow missed you, please send me your request again. For those users who receive a personal copy of this e-mail, you are already on my list. I will send you a mailing address when I am ready to burn the CDs. Please reply if you are still interested. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From marvin at rain.org Mon Jun 24 14:32:30 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: IBM Laserprinter Font Cards Message-ID: <3D1773CE.E26A19A7@rain.org> In the process of getting rid of stuff I don't particularly care to collect, I have 10 IBM Laserprinter Font Cards. The P/Ns (they all begin with 1255) are 800, 801, 803, 806, 807, 808, 825, 826, 828, and 829. $20.00 for all including US shipping. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jun 24 20:11:43 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] any ISIS info out there? In-Reply-To: <20020624025825.A29649@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020624201143.48c7a454@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:58 AM 6/24/02 -0700, you wrote: >Since I've been curious about ISIS for some time, I was glad to finally >borrow a copy of the _ISIS-II System User's Guide_. Comparing ISIS to >CP/M is quite instructive. I already knew that CP/M has a few design >flaws which ISIS lacks. > On the other hand, I was surprised at how much >memory ISIS takes up. What do you mean? I'm only running 32k on two of my systems and they work just fine. I consider that pretty good for a non-ROM based OS. Joe _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Jun 24 20:13:12 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Re: any ISIS info out there? In-Reply-To: <20020624034115.A1714@eskimo.eskimo.com> References: <20020624025825.A29649@eskimo.eskimo.com> <20020624025825.A29649@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020624201312.33b7f738@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Derek, ISIS is a VERY primitive system IMO. It only has six commands total (IIRC) and the file systems is truely STRANGE. I've been wondering about the system calls too. My manuals mention them but don't provide ANY details and I have a pretty complete set of manuals. What system are you running it on? I currently have a 800, an 880 and 235 plus another 235 that I'm storing for someone else. BTW I finally picked up a hard drive for mine after 7 or 8 years of searching. :-) Joe At 03:41 AM 6/24/02 -0700, you wrote: >On Mon, Jun 24, 2002 at 02:58:26AM -0700, Derek Peschel wrote: >> (Yes, Tony, we already talked about the front panel and monitor on one of >> the Intellec systems, but I think this hardware/software is different.) > >At any rate the disk seems to have an additional ROM. Also the manual >mentions system calls which aren't in the list of commands I have. > >-- Derek >_______________________________________________ >cctech mailing list >cctech@classiccmp.org >http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech > _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech@classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech From domitz at onebox.com Tue Jun 25 00:59:01 2002 From: domitz at onebox.com (Robert Domitz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: Starting from Scratch (was Re: OT: Modern college educa Message-ID: <20020625055901.IWNW5842.mta04.onebox.com@onebox.com> I was part of the team of "Research Assistants" who assisted in the development of the Huntington Computer Project, under the tutilage of Dr. Ludwig Braun, Jr. It covered a number of school districts in Suffolk County on Long Island in New York State. I would be interested in your thoughts of the project, based on what you have. Thank you. -- Robert Domitz domitz@onebox.com - email From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jun 25 03:44:50 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: final brainteaser for the day In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: final brainteaser for the day" (Jun 24, 23:43) References: Message-ID: <10206250944.ZM28068@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 24, 23:43, Tony Duell wrote: > RT11 (in various flavours) > RSTS/E > RSX11 (which covers at least RSX11S, RSX11M, RSX11M+, and a few I've > forgotten) > IAS (I think there are several versions of this -- IAS11/D or something) > DSM (~= MUMPS) > XXDP+ (really just a loader for diagnostics...) > Unix (many versions -- relase 5, 6, 7, 7m, BSD 2.09. BSD 2.11, Ultrix-11, > Venix,...) > Xinu > Tripos > Various languages including their own OS (Single user BASIC, Multi-user > BASIC, MINC BASIC, Forth, etc) > The paper tape programming system. You missed Fuzzball. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From stanb at dial.pipex.com Tue Jun 25 03:24:20 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: final brainteaser for the day In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 25 Jun 2002 01:37:29 BST." Message-ID: <200206250824.JAA03097@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) said: > [PDP11] > > > Forth! There's a bootable forth around? That'd be fantastic... > > There _was_... > > FIG Forth was available for the PDP11 at one time, and at least one > varient included a small bootstrap which pulled the Forth kernel, etc > into memory. Disk access was then via the standard 1K 'screens'. > > I think the only disk it supported (both for booting and for > reading/writing screens) was the RX01 (and maybe later the RX02). It > would be possible to modify the disk I/O code to handle other devices, I > guess. > > There was also a version that ran under RT11 and used an RT11 file as a > 'virtual disk' to store the screens. This is the only version I've ever > seen, and not having an RT11 license I can't run it. > > If anyone knows the whereabouts of the standalone version I am > interested. I am pretty sure it was Public Domain (most FIG Forths are). Someone sent me a couple of zip files with PDP-11 Forth some time back. I've not done anything with it yet - been busy. It's in the PD and by FIG, and will run stand-alone (allegedly...). Mostly MACRO code. Anyones welcome to a copy. of course. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From hansp at aconit.org Tue Jun 25 07:13:22 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: Forth for PDP-11 References: Message-ID: <3D185E62.8090800@aconit.org> Tony Duell wrote: >>On Tue, 2002-06-25 at 01:37, Tony Duell wrote: >>>>Forth! There's a bootable forth around? That'd be fantastic... > [...but it was RX01 only...] >>There goes the short-lived dream of a Forth box then. We've basically >>got either RX50 or TK50 to boot from. > Well, if you could find the original code (which came as Macro 11 > source), it wouldn't be _too_ difficult to modify the I/O drivers, I > think. A quick Google search recovered this as the first item: ------------------------------------------------ SOL-11 - A Small Language and OS for the PDP-11 SOL is a small, non-standard, stand-alone FORTH kernel containing everything that is required to edit, store, recall, compile, and run programs on PDP-11 microcomputers. It is intended for a minimum operating system and programming environment. The FORTH language offers full access to the complete hardware. Device drivers for the console and some block devices are included. Supported Hardware * PDP-11 CPU with EIS (required) * 8K to 28K words of memory * console terminal (preferrably VT100) * RX01/RX02 floppy disk drives * RL02 disk drive * TU58 tape drive The Sources SOL is written in PDP-11 assembly language and FORTH. The BTN11 assembler (version 0.9 or later) is required to compile the assembly part of SOL. 40187 2001-07-17 sol-11.tar.gz version 0.4 ---------------------------------------------- Available at : http://www.not-compatible.org/PDP-11/programs/sol-11.html Seems like what the doctor ordered. Check out the rest of the site for other interesting projects. -- hbp From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Jun 25 08:09:00 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: The Fuzzball (was: final brainteaser for the day) In-Reply-To: <10206250944.ZM28068@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10206250944.ZM28068@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20020625130900.GA18927@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Pete Turnbull, from writings of Tue, Jun 25, 2002 at 08:44:50AM +0000: > You missed Fuzzball. Has anyone done any work on The Fuzzball during the past several years? It looks interesting, but, from what I recall, it isn't bootable. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Tue Jun 25 09:16:35 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: final brainteaser for the day References: <1024964456.2696.2.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> Message-ID: <3D187B42.20698553@compsys.to> >Alex White wrote: > > On Mon, 2002-06-24 at 23:43, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Alex White wrote: > > > Can you describe all the PDP OSen and variants out there? > > _ALL_ of them???? You are joking, right? > Nope. Jerome Fine replies: Well, in that case, ... > > Various languages including their own OS (Single user BASIC, Multi-user > > BASIC, MINC BASIC, Forth, etc) > Forth! There's a bootable forth around? That'd be fantastic... YEP!! I don't have it available right now, but others have a reference for you. > > And you want me to _describe_ all of those... > I think I should have said 'list'. > Alex I think that would be much more appropriate. IN ADDITION, I JUST NOTICED YOU ASKED FOR: DRUM ROLL, FIREWORKS, ENTERPRISE GOING TO WARP!! PDP in general, as opposed to PDP-11 which everyone has been focused upon. Did you mean PDP-11 ONLY - OR dod you actually want a list of all PDP systems? While just the list for PDP-11 would occupy a whole VERY LARGE chapter in a book, such a list for ALL PDP would occupy a VERY LARGE book. Perhaps I exaggerate just a bit since just a list with one line to specify only the name of the OSen would probably not be too extreme - it depends on what you mean by variants. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Jun 25 09:26:22 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: final brainteaser for the day References: <1024964456.2696.2.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> <3D187B42.20698553@compsys.to> Message-ID: <3D187D8E.FBA975C2@jetnet.ab.ca> "Jerome H. Fine" wrote: > Perhaps I exaggerate just a bit since just a list with one line > to specify only the name of the OSen would probably not > be too extreme - it depends on what you mean by variants. Well a cross reference would be nice to know just what ran and could be cross compiled between machines from the tiny PDP-8 to the larger PDP's. Only major revisions are needed. Take the PC there was only 4 OS's that I know of when it first came out CP/M,DOS,Pascal,Forth. Most real software started with the 286. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Tue Jun 25 10:23:02 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: QBUS memory References: <1024922515.2843.8.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> Message-ID: <3D188AD6.6060402@aurora.regenstrief.org> Alex White wrote: > Hello guys > > I'm trying to resurrect a PDP 11/23 and we're in need of a QBUS memory > card - does anyone have one for spare/swap? I have one that I bought to upgrade my 11/03 (KC780) but it didn't work. Don't have the part number right now. But I'm happy to swap this. (or figure out how I can make it work.) regards -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From Gary.Messick at itt.com Tue Jun 25 10:47:34 2002 From: Gary.Messick at itt.com (Messick, Gary) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: Can anyone identify this board for a Heath H-89? Message-ID: <998FEBD9C16DD211881200A0C9D61AD704468AA7@acdfwx3.acdin.de.ittind.com> Re: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2034559690 (Ebay auction of Heath H-89) If you look at the last picture in the listing, it show a board that is mounted on top of the CRT. The same picture clearly shows the mounting screws for both the terminal board + the CPU board, so this has to be some sort of an aftermarket board. My thinking is it is some third-party graphics board. I just wonder if anyone else has any ideas about this. Gary ************************************ If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the addressee, please note that this message may contain ITT Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. You should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of ITT is neither endorsed by nor attributable to ITT. ************************************ From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Jun 25 11:22:18 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: final brainteaser for the day In-Reply-To: <3D187D8E.FBA975C2@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <1024964456.2696.2.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> <3D187B42.20698553@compsys.to> <3D187D8E.FBA975C2@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <33467.64.169.63.74.1025022138.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Ben wrote: > Most real software started with the 286. Nice troll, dude! From mrbill at mrbill.net Tue Jun 25 11:22:27 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: [gstrekel@limra.com: VAX Cluster] Message-ID: <20020625162227.GJ20334@mrbill.net> Wow.. Anybody want a cluster? 8-) Bill ----- Forwarded message from gstrekel@limra.com ----- From: gstrekel@limra.com To: mrbill@decvax.org Subject: VAX Cluster Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 12:19:34 -0400 Hello, We are powering down our VAX Cluster for the last time on July 1, 2002 and we want to remove if from the computer room as soon as possible after that. Our Cluster consists of a VAX 7710, VAX 6410, MicroVAX 3100/10E and MicroVAX 3100/30. We are using MTI hard and tape drives for storage. All the Digital equipment has been under maintenance contract with Digital for the life of the equipment and all the equipment is in fine working order (but of course). We also have a couple of printers, 3 or 4 monitors, a 19" monitor that uses a mouse, and various documentation. We are located in Windsor, Connecticut, 1 mile from exit 38 on Rt. 91. I have sent out an email offering the system to a group of Connecticut hospitals that may be using similar equipment, but I have no preference of were it goes. (Irrationally, I would like it to go to a good home were it could still be productive). If you have any ideas, please let me know. Thanks, Giles Strekel LIMRA International 300 Day Hill Road Windsor, CT 860-298-3848 ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Jun 25 11:51:17 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: Circuit board parts removal [was: Bulk Tape... / 486 Linux...] Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A48@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > > >Scary as that might be. Building > > >a computer desk and office out of failed computer parts. Now, just to > win > > >the damned lottery so I can actually spend at least 5 minutes a day > > >figuring out how to obtain enough parts and break them down into > something > > >workable. > > > >If a guy here in NJ can build an entire castle and property out of > >garbage and broken stuff, you should be able to handle some office > >furniture. > > > >-chris > > > From: John Boffemmyer IV > > lol, true Chris. Now, where to find enough circuit boards. The other > question that has come to mind: how the hell do I clean off / smooth off > the boards to make them flat enough to mount to a wall, etc without the > nasty sharp solder hang-offs and chips, etc. hanging off and getting in > the > way.... > -John > Hmm, how about holding the board over a gas grill, with a pan to catch the dripping solder? Or would that not be hot enough? Put the circuit board on a cookie cooling rack, with a baking sheet to catch the drippings? Of course, there's always a benchgrinder, cut-off wheel on a drill, end-nips, diagonal cutters... Or you could do the slow way of a soldering iron. Personally, I like the idea of cooking it all off over a high flame... 8-) -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jun 25 11:43:46 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: final brainteaser for the day In-Reply-To: <3D187D8E.FBA975C2@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Jun 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > PC there was only 4 OS's that I know of when it first came out > CP/M,DOS,Pascal,Forth. Most real software started with the 286. Isn't that: "Most real software ENDED with the 286." ? From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Jun 25 11:42:50 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: final brainteaser for the day References: <1024964456.2696.2.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> <3D187B42.20698553@compsys.to> <3D187D8E.FBA975C2@jetnet.ab.ca> <33467.64.169.63.74.1025022138.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3D189D8A.9E7FBCB3@jetnet.ab.ca> Eric Smith wrote: > > Ben wrote: > > Most real software started with the 286. > > Nice troll, dude! That was meant for the PC. Real computers had real software before that. I consider the PC to still to be 8 bit cpu because 16 bit addressing is the norm. Also while 8 bit CPU's like the 8080/Z80/6500/6800/6809 are nice machines only MACHINES with 48k+ of memory could do useful general purpose work. ( That 48k includes 8k to 12k OS ). -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Jun 25 11:48:50 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: Can anyone identify this board for a Heath H-89? Message-ID: <200206251648.JAA26236@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Messick, Gary" > >Re: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2034559690 (Ebay >auction of Heath H-89) > >If you look at the last picture in the listing, it show a board that is >mounted on top of the CRT. The same picture clearly shows the mounting >screws for both the terminal board + the CPU board, so this has to be some >sort of an aftermarket board. My thinking is it is some third-party >graphics board. I just wonder if anyone else has any ideas about this. > >Gary > > > Hi Gary The list of ports would lead me to think it was expanded I/O. The 89 didn't have such things as a 488 port. Dwight From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Jun 25 11:48:43 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: final brainteaser for the day References: Message-ID: <3D189EEB.4B476AFE@jetnet.ab.ca> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > On Tue, 25 Jun 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > PC there was only 4 OS's that I know of when it first came out > > CP/M,DOS,Pascal,Forth. Most real software started with the 286. > > Isn't that: > "Most real software ENDED with the 286." ? I was thinking of unix style OS's. The 286 was the first intel cpu with some sort of real memory managment. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Jun 25 11:55:34 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: final brainteaser for the day In-Reply-To: <3D189EEB.4B476AFE@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <3D189EEB.4B476AFE@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <33485.64.169.63.74.1025024134.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Ben wrote: > I was thinking of unix style OS's. The 286 was the first intel cpu with > some sort of real memory managment. If you don't count the iAPX 432. (And most people don't.) From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Jun 25 11:58:06 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: final brainteaser for the day References: <3D189EEB.4B476AFE@jetnet.ab.ca> <33485.64.169.63.74.1025024134.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3D18A11E.7F22E04A@jetnet.ab.ca> Eric Smith wrote: > > Ben wrote: > > I was thinking of unix style OS's. The 286 was the first intel cpu with > > some sort of real memory managment. > > If you don't count the iAPX 432. (And most people don't.) Well what was it? -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Jun 25 12:13:32 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: [gstrekel@limra.com: VAX Cluster] Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A49@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Aww man, that's under an hour away from me! And I got a pickup truck! Not that it would all fit at one time... :) Now, if I only had the space, and power. > From: Bill Bradford > > Wow.. Anybody want a cluster? 8-) > > Bill > > ----- Forwarded message from gstrekel@limra.com ----- > > From: gstrekel@limra.com > To: mrbill@decvax.org > Subject: VAX Cluster > Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 12:19:34 -0400 > > Hello, > > We are powering down our VAX Cluster for the last time on July 1, 2002 and > we want to remove if from the computer room as soon as possible after > that. > > Our Cluster consists of a VAX 7710, VAX 6410, MicroVAX 3100/10E and > MicroVAX > 3100/30. We are using MTI hard and tape drives for storage. All the > Digital > equipment has been under maintenance contract with Digital for the life of > the equipment and all the equipment is in fine working order (but of > course). > > We also have a couple of printers, 3 or 4 monitors, a 19" monitor that > uses > a mouse, and various documentation. > > We are located in Windsor, Connecticut, 1 mile from exit 38 on Rt. 91. > > I have sent out an email offering the system to a group of Connecticut > hospitals that may be using similar equipment, but I have no preference of > were it goes. (Irrationally, I would like it to go to a good home were it > could still be productive). > > If you have any ideas, please let me know. > > Thanks, > > Giles Strekel > LIMRA International > 300 Day Hill Road > Windsor, CT > > 860-298-3848 > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From mythtech at mac.com Tue Jun 25 12:05:58 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: Circuit board parts removal [was: Bulk Tape... / 486 Linux...] Message-ID: > Personally, I like the idea of cooking it all off over a high >flame... 8-) Mmmmm... Bar-B-Que'd Pentium... tasty with a bit of A-1 sauce! (of course, if you want BBQ Pentium, just pull the heat sink and fan and let it cook itself) -chris From mythtech at mac.com Tue Jun 25 12:10:41 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: Bulk Tape Eraser: Revisited Message-ID: Thinking about my Bulk Tape Eraser... and all the use of the word gauss in the replies... can I use the thing to degauss my TV set at home? It has a nasty purple zone on one side, and yellow on the other (large speakers have sat too close to the TV for the last 3 years... I recently rearranged furniture so the speakers are away from it now). Can I use something as small as the tape eraser on a 25 inch screen? or do I really have to buy a CRT degaussing ring. Just trying to save myself the $35 for a ring if I have something that will do the job sitting here already. -chris From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Jun 25 12:11:02 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: [gstrekel@limra.com: VAX Cluster] References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A49@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <3D18A426.799D469E@jetnet.ab.ca> David Woyciesjes wrote: > > Aww man, that's under an hour away from me! And I got a pickup > truck! Not that it would all fit at one time... :) > Now, if I only had the space, and power. > What this group needs is a storage places for the deals of the century. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Jun 25 12:16:38 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: Circuit board parts removal [was: Bulk Tape... / 486 Linux...] Message-ID: <200206251716.KAA26292@clulw009.amd.com> >From: Chris > >> Personally, I like the idea of cooking it all off over a high >>flame... 8-) > >Mmmmm... Bar-B-Que'd Pentium... tasty with a bit of A-1 sauce! (of >course, if you want BBQ Pentium, just pull the heat sink and fan and let >it cook itself) > >-chris > > > Hi I've not tried it but I'm told that peanut oil works well. Dwight From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Tue Jun 25 12:21:34 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: Bulk Tape Eraser: Revisited Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E6F@BUSH02> can I use the thing to degauss my TV set at home? It has a nasty purple zone on one side, and yellow on the other Just trying to save myself the $35 for a ring if I have something that will do the job sitting here already. You have, the degauss coil built into the set. Just switch it off at the mains when you use it least (overnight or whenever) instead of putting it on standby and the set will degauss itself in a few days. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Jun 25 12:32:02 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: Intel iAPX 432 (was Re: final brainteaser for the day) In-Reply-To: <3D18A11E.7F22E04A@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <3D189EEB.4B476AFE@jetnet.ab.ca> <33485.64.169.63.74.1025024134.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3D18A11E.7F22E04A@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <33680.64.169.63.74.1025026322.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> >>> I was thinking of unix style OS's. The 286 was the first intel cpu >>> with some sort of real memory managment. >> >> If you don't count the iAPX 432. (And most people don't.) > > Well what was it? Maybe your friend Google knows? :-) Intel's first 32-bit microprocessor, announced in 1980 and first shipped in 1981. The 432 was object-oriented, implemented kernel primitives such as memory and process management in microcode, offered nearly glueless SMP support, and had support for redundancy and fault-tolerance. The main CPU was called the General Data Processor (GDP), and consisted of two chips, the 43201 instruction unit and the 43202 execution unit. The original plan called for an I/O Processor, but that was replaced by the 43203 Interface Processor (IP), which was not a processor in the conventional sense of the word. The IP acted as a proxy into the 432 world for a more conventional I/O processor. The 8086 was developed as a stopgap measure because the 432 program (originally to be known as the 8800) was several years behind schedule. Most 432 systems used 8086 or 8088 processors in the I/O subsystems. http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/intel/iapx432/ From Gary.Messick at itt.com Tue Jun 25 12:39:35 2002 From: Gary.Messick at itt.com (Messick, Gary) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: Can anyone identify this board for a Heath H-89? Message-ID: <998FEBD9C16DD211881200A0C9D61AD704468AA8@acdfwx3.acdin.de.ittind.com> Dwight, The connector blanks shown in the picture are factory standard of the later models, and they included a BLANK for 488. I agree, I don't think Heath ever made a card to implement it, buy my '89 has the 488 blank on it also. The only IO positions populated would indicate a 3-port Serial, and an extern floppy I/F of some sort (they supported 8" and Hard and Soft 5 1/4" of various densities. I remember seeing third party adds (in the day) for add-on graphics capabilities, but don't really remember how they were installed. ISTR that they were replacement boards for the terminal board, but I could be wrong. The reason I asked was, as a kid, I drooled over the ability to do pixel graphics on a CP/M machine. I wonder if this would be a cheap way to pick on up? Probably 0 documentation on it. Maybe I'll email him.... Gary > From: Dwight K. Elvey [mailto:dwightk.elvey@amd.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 11:49 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this board for a Heath H-89? > > > > Hi Gary > The list of ports would lead me to think it was expanded > I/O. The 89 didn't have such things as a 488 port. > Dwight > > ************************************ If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the addressee, please note that this message may contain ITT Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. You should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of ITT is neither endorsed by nor attributable to ITT. ************************************ From marvin at rain.org Tue Jun 25 12:54:47 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: Circuit board parts removal [was: Bulk Tape... / 486Linux...] References: <200206251716.KAA26292@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3D18AE67.35F2186C@rain.org> "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: > >From: Chris > >> Personally, I like the idea of cooking it all off over a high > >>flame... 8-) > >Mmmmm... Bar-B-Que'd Pentium... tasty with a bit of A-1 sauce! (of > >course, if you want BBQ Pentium, just pull the heat sink and fan and let > >it cook itself) > I've not tried it but I'm told that peanut oil works > well. > Dwight The problem with peanut oil is that it deteriorates rapidly at higher temperatures. It *was* used for fusing the tin-lead plating on circuit boards into solder, but it has been replaced with other oils that are MUCH more stable at higher temperatures. I used to fuse boards at about 450F, and it would take about 45 seconds or so to start discoloring the board. We won't talk about the smoke generated on the kitchen stove when I first tried it :). From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Jun 25 13:12:49 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: Circuit board parts removal [was: Bulk Tape... / 486Linux...] Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A4C@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > > >>Dave W--- > > >> Personally, I like the idea of cooking it all off over a high > > >>flame... 8-) > > > >From: Chris > > >Mmmmm... Bar-B-Que'd Pentium... tasty with a bit of A-1 sauce! (of > > >course, if you want BBQ Pentium, just pull the heat sink and fan and > let > > >it cook itself) > > "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: > > I've not tried it but I'm told that peanut oil works > > well. > > Dwight > > From: Marvin Johnston > > The problem with peanut oil is that it deteriorates rapidly at higher > temperatures. It *was* used for fusing the tin-lead plating on circuit > boards into solder, but it has been replaced with other oils that are > MUCH more stable at higher temperatures. I used to fuse boards at about > 450F, and it would take about 45 seconds or so to start discoloring the > board. > > We won't talk about the smoke generated on the kitchen stove when I > first tried it :). > > Awww, why not? :) I'm curious... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From bqt at update.uu.se Tue Jun 25 13:25:53 2002 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: cctalk digest, Vol 1 #63 - 59 msgs In-Reply-To: <20020625170002.78682.45040.Mailman@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Jun 2002 cctalk-request@classiccmp.org wrote: > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Subject: Re: final brainteaser for the day > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 01:37:29 +0100 (BST) > Reply-To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > [PDP11] > > > Forth! There's a bootable forth around? That'd be fantastic... > > There _was_... > > FIG Forth was available for the PDP11 at one time, and at least one > varient included a small bootstrap which pulled the Forth kernel, etc > into memory. Disk access was then via the standard 1K 'screens'. > > I think the only disk it supported (both for booting and for > reading/writing screens) was the RX01 (and maybe later the RX02). It > would be possible to modify the disk I/O code to handle other devices, I > guess. > > There was also a version that ran under RT11 and used an RT11 file as a > 'virtual disk' to store the screens. This is the only version I've ever > seen, and not having an RT11 license I can't run it. > > If anyone knows the whereabouts of the standalone version I am > interested. I am pretty sure it was Public Domain (most FIG Forths are). Ho hum... On MAGICA::DU3:[FORTH] perhaps? :-) Looking at FORTH.MAC, the header says: .TITLE F.I.G. ; **************************************************************** ; ; PDP-11 FORTH INTRODUCTION PDP-11 FORTH ; ; **************************************************************** ; ; ; ; PDP-11 FORTH RT-11, RSX-11M, AND STAND-ALONE JANUARY 1980 Oh, you can also pick it up at ftp://ftp.update.uu.se/pub/pdp11/rsx/lang/forth Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From vaxman at earthlink.net Tue Jun 25 13:35:50 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: Can anyone identify this board for a Heath H-89? In-Reply-To: <998FEBD9C16DD211881200A0C9D61AD704468AA8@acdfwx3.acdin.de.ittind.com> Message-ID: When I was in college, I had a Z80 CP/M machine connected to a Diablo Hitype II daisywheel printer. I was facinated with perspective and hidden line removal, so I wrote a program to microstep the printer and draw individual pixels using the period. It took several hours to print a single 8.5x11 drawing, and on the second run, the printer died, never to live again... I didn't have a cover for the printer either, so everyone in the dorm knew when I was printing a report... clint On Tue, 25 Jun 2002, Messick, Gary wrote: > The reason I asked was, as a kid, I drooled over the ability to do pixel > graphics on a CP/M machine. I wonder if this would be a cheap way to pick > on up? Probably 0 documentation on it. Maybe I'll email him.... > > Gary > From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Tue Jun 25 13:39:41 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? Message-ID: <20020625190031.XVWM15015.imf20bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Michael Passer > PCs, unlike televisions, are sold as being user-upgradable--it is no more > "servicing" to add a card or drive to a PC than adding a component to a > high-end stereo is. Yes, but I've seen customers open up the box if Windows doesn't work the way they expect ;>) Coupla examples of customer repairs and "upgrades": Proprietary Mitsumi CD-ROM drive plugged into IDE port on a sound card (burnt board). Hard drive or CD-ROM drive attached to motherboard by floppy drive cable. IDE cables spliced together so the system can accommodate more than four IDE devices. PCI device edge-connector forced into an ISA slot (burnt pcb on device and motherboard). Sound card attached to case properly, but toward the outside edge of the motherboard (where there was no slot of any kind -- sound card's edge connector was hanging in the air above the MB). > I would probably be frustrated myself if customers tried to return items > they destroyed. It's certainly your prerogative to sell PCs with > warranty stickers. To me, though, that's a deal-killer, absent the kind > of relationship you appear to have with your knowledgeable customers. If someone seems capable of installing a device AND DRIVERS, I tell them to break the seal, and I also tell them that if they screw something up that there might be a repair bill. For the general public, though, it's "break the seal and lose your warranty." Fair enough? Glen 0/0 If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if not now, when? -- Pirkei Avot From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jun 25 14:05:22 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: final brainteaser for the day In-Reply-To: <3D189D8A.9E7FBCB3@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <1024964456.2696.2.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> <3D187B42.20698553@compsys.to> <3D187D8E.FBA975C2@jetnet.ab.ca> <33467.64.169.63.74.1025022138.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: >Eric Smith wrote: >> >> Ben wrote: >> > Most real software started with the 286. >> >> Nice troll, dude! > >That was meant for the PC. Real computers had real software I'd also disagree with that statement, I don't think it started until the 386. Sure you could do some tricks to get real OS's running on a 286, but it wasn't until the 386 that you could get a decent, fully functional OS up and running. No troll, just my opinion. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From foo at siconic.com Tue Jun 25 14:06:35 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: Resource on web for describing hard disk crash? Message-ID: Does anyone know of any resources on the web that describe the various sounds hard drives will make before they start to crash? Like, I know from experience that when I hear a hard drive occasionally buzz or give out a momentary high pitched squeal, it means the bearings are failing and it will probably eventually crash (maybe not soon, but eventually). Anyone have any info on this? Thanks! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Jun 25 14:09:10 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? In-Reply-To: <20020625190031.XVWM15015.imf20bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Jun 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > If someone seems capable of installing a device AND DRIVERS, I tell them to > break the seal, and I also tell them that if they screw something up that > there might be a repair bill. For the general public, though, it's "break > the seal and lose your warranty." > > Fair enough? Absolutely. Doc From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jun 25 14:18:24 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: final brainteaser for the day In-Reply-To: <3D187B42.20698553@compsys.to> References: <1024964456.2696.2.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> Message-ID: >IN ADDITION, I JUST NOTICED YOU ASKED FOR: > >DRUM ROLL, FIREWORKS, ENTERPRISE GOING TO WARP!! > >PDP in general, as opposed to PDP-11 which everyone has >been focused upon. Did you mean PDP-11 ONLY - OR >dod you actually want a list of all PDP systems? While just >the list for PDP-11 would occupy a whole VERY LARGE >chapter in a book, such a list for ALL PDP would occupy >a VERY LARGE book. > >Perhaps I exaggerate just a bit since just a list with one line >to specify only the name of the OSen would probably not >be too extreme - it depends on what you mean by variants. > >Sincerely yours, > >Jerome Fine Good point Jerome, I'd missed that myself. I think it's really only the PDP-8 and PDP-11 that have huge lists of OS's. Though just about every DEC system seems to have several. My DEC emulation website ( http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/decemu.html ) does mention quite a few of the OS's available for each DEC family, however, that's one aspect of it that needs more work. Especially since I don't have pages up for systems that don't have emulators. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 25 14:49:53 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: PO/S disk images anywhere? Message-ID: <20020625194953.44537.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> I thought I'd run across P/OS RX50 images on an ftp site somewhere recently, but I cannot find them now. I am attempting to save myself a _lot_ of work - the other night, I discovered that the shelf of grey boxes marked "Professional..." on my shelves contain several sets of PO/S distribution floppies - one each of most, if not all, the versions. Since I've recently set up a box with a 5.25" floppy and PUTR, I was thinking of archiving them, but if it's already been done, no need to to it twice. I did re-locate my Ultrix-32M 1.1 diskettes last night... they are on the stack. I have MicroVMS 4.0 done, can't find any of MicroVMS 4.1 and am missing one box of MicroVMS 4.2, but have MicroVMS 4.4 through 4.7, seemingly complete. So... the specific question at hand - are there available PO/S floppy images, or should I run several pounds of media through my drive? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jun 25 15:19:21 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: Resource on web for describing hard disk crash? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Jun 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Like, I know from experience that when I hear a hard drive occasionally > buzz or give out a momentary high pitched squeal, it means the bearings > are failing and it will probably eventually crash (maybe not soon, but > eventually). > Anyone have any info on this? Back in the "good old days" (15-20 years ago), a lot of the 5.25" full height drives would make high pitched squeals, without being a sign of impending failure. The strap that rubbed on the end of the spindle would develod a small pit that would make noise. Pushing down on it would silence it briefly. bending it very slightly sideways would silence it for a long time, until it had worn another pit. 'course the same drives no longer make those noises (ever since I stopped hearing those frequencies). > are failing and it will probably eventually crash (maybe not soon, but > eventually). ALL mechanical devices, including drives, will EVENTUALLY crash! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From stanb at dial.pipex.com Tue Jun 25 15:02:23 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: Resource on web for describing hard disk crash? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 25 Jun 2002 12:06:35 PDT." Message-ID: <200206252002.VAA11130@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Sellam Ismail said: > > Does anyone know of any resources on the web that describe the various > sounds hard drives will make before they start to crash? > > Like, I know from experience that when I hear a hard drive occasionally > buzz or give out a momentary high pitched squeal, it means the bearings > are failing and it will probably eventually crash (maybe not soon, but > eventually). > > Anyone have any info on this? I've had 2 hard drives* fail in this way. On dismantling it was clear that in both cases the original grease had gone hard. Both made that high pitched squeal. Both ran for a few months like that before they stopped turning for good. * A full-height 30Mb IBM in my 1985 AT and the 20MB drive in my Mac SE. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From bill at timeguy.com Tue Jun 25 15:18:34 2002 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: Bulk Tape Eraser: Revisited In-Reply-To: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E6F@BUSH02> Message-ID: <20020625151634.D28319-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> You can use your bulk tape eraser to degauss your TV. Just turn it on several feet from the set and move towards the screen. Run it in circles in front of the screen without touching it (to avoid scratching the glass) - you'll see all kinds of pretty colors. Then, with the eraser still on, move several feet away again before turning it off, to avoid the momentary DC polarization as the field collapses. On Tue, 25 Jun 2002, Davison, Lee wrote: > > can I use the thing to degauss my TV set at home? It > has a nasty purple zone on one side, and yellow on > the other > > Just trying to save myself the $35 for a ring if I have > something that will do the job sitting here already. > > You have, the degauss coil built into the set. Just switch it off > at the mains when you use it least (overnight or whenever) > instead of putting it on standby and the set will degauss > itself in a few days. > > Lee. > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The > information contained in this email may contain information which is > confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender > and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. > > If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please > delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International > IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The > service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive > anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: > http://www.star.net.uk > ________________________________________________________________________ > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 25 17:14:44 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020624214702.02ba6db8@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at Jun 24, 2 09:52:54 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1872 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020625/08ff9480/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 25 17:37:33 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: Forth for PDP-11 In-Reply-To: <3D185E62.8090800@aconit.org> from "Hans B Pufal" at Jun 25, 2 02:13:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1416 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020625/44c2504d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 25 17:48:02 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: Can anyone identify this board for a Heath H-89? In-Reply-To: <998FEBD9C16DD211881200A0C9D61AD704468AA7@acdfwx3.acdin.de.ittind.com> from "Messick, Gary" at Jun 25, 2 10:47:34 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1257 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020625/22788f78/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jun 25 18:01:25 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:38 2005 Subject: Bulk Tape Eraser: Revisited In-Reply-To: from "Chris" at Jun 25, 2 01:10:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 828 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020626/97090a3c/attachment.ksh From mythtech at mac.com Tue Jun 25 20:00:11 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:39 2005 Subject: Bulk Tape Eraser: Revisited Message-ID: >You have, the degauss coil built into the set. Just switch it off >at the mains when you use it least (overnight or whenever) >instead of putting it on standby and the set will degauss >itself in a few days. Mine either doesn't have it, or it doesn't work (I tried the on/off thing many times in the past, never seems to help) It is a Sharp commercial quality TV. I got it from Disney Property Control when working there. Paid $25 bucks for it. It was pulled from the Walt Disney World Dolphin AV Department. The front panel that flips up to cover the buttons is missing, and there is some asthetic damage to the bezel, and the screen draws a little low, so you can see the synch line across the top... but other than that, it is a VERY nice TV for $25 (stereo, has S-Video inputs, and its a flat tube so in my opinion, the colors are a bit nicer and glare is reduced). So maybe the degauss is also broken, or maybe I just have to unplug it rather than switch it off. When you turn it off, and leave it in Line mode, and have an audio feed to the Line such as from a VCR, you can hear the audio real silently coming thru it, so there is a good chance the on/off button only does a standby mode. (The audio leak is also REAL fun when guests stay the night, I leave it in a state where it will leak sound, and then tell people before they go to sleep that I sometimes have ghost problems, but not to worry they are harmless ghosts.... then I get a great laugh in the morning when they are all freaked out because they heard whispering voices all night long) -chris From mythtech at mac.com Tue Jun 25 20:01:37 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:39 2005 Subject: Bulk Tape Eraser: Revisited Message-ID: >Actaully, if it's a Trinitron CRT, be more careful. It's not too hard to >distort the aperture grille (and thus ruin the CRT) with a degausing >coil. Don't think it is a Trinitron. Isn't that a Sony thing? This is a Sharp unit. I give the bulk eraser a shot before buying a coil. Thanks -chris From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jun 25 20:05:59 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:39 2005 Subject: Forth for PDP-11 In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Jun 25, 2002 11:37:33 PM Message-ID: <200206260105.g5Q15xO13405@shell1.aracnet.com> > > > SOL-11 - A Small Language and OS for the PDP-11 > > > > SOL is a small, non-standard, stand-alone FORTH kernel containing > > everything that is required to edit, store, recall, compile, and run > > programs on PDP-11 microcomputers. It is intended for a minimum > > operating system and programming environment. The FORTH language offers > > full access to the complete hardware. Device drivers for the console and > > some block devices are included. This is so cool! > > Supported Hardware > > > > * PDP-11 CPU with EIS (required) > > * 8K to 28K words of memory Dang, the EIS requirement sucks! This would be perfect for PDP-11/03's and SBC-11/21's. Unfortunatly the /03 needs the KEV11 option, and the SBC-11/21 is just plain out of luck. > Presumably it ignores the MMU (but doesn't object if one is present, as > few machines have EIS but no MMU). > > > * console terminal (preferrably VT100) > > * RX01/RX02 floppy disk drives > > * RL02 disk drive > > * TU58 tape drive > > I assume it needs the CPU, RAM, console and at least one of the mass > storage devices. It can't need _all_ the drives, surely? It only needs one of the drives. I just built it and booted the RL02 image on SIMH. It looks pretty cool, of course I don't know FORTH, so can't actually do anything.... I suspect the TU58 option means that it's possible to run this on a PDP-11 that doesn't have any drives, but has two SLU's, just run a TU58 emulator on a PC. > > The Sources > > > > SOL is written in PDP-11 assembly language and FORTH. The BTN11 > > assembler (version 0.9 or later) is required to compile the assembly > > part of SOL. > > 40187 2001-07-17 sol-11.tar.gz version 0.4 > > Sounds like just what I need (given that I have all of the supported > hardware!). I will take a look. Thanks.... You'll want a UNIX box to build everything. If you don't have a way to build the images I can through them up on my FTP site (if anyone needs this it would be best to send me a private email so I'm sure to see the request). Now to go googling for some FORTH documentation... Zane From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Jun 25 20:41:00 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:39 2005 Subject: Forth for PDP-11 Message-ID: <200206260141.SAA27108@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Zane H. Healy" > >> >> > SOL-11 - A Small Language and OS for the PDP-11 >> > >> > SOL is a small, non-standard, stand-alone FORTH kernel containing >> > everything that is required to edit, store, recall, compile, and run >> > programs on PDP-11 microcomputers. It is intended for a minimum >> > operating system and programming environment. The FORTH language offers >> > full access to the complete hardware. Device drivers for the console and >> > some block devices are included. > >This is so cool! > >> > Supported Hardware >> > >> > * PDP-11 CPU with EIS (required) >> > * 8K to 28K words of memory > >Dang, the EIS requirement sucks! This would be perfect for PDP-11/03's and >SBC-11/21's. Unfortunatly the /03 needs the KEV11 option, and the SBC-11/21 >is just plain out of luck. > >> Presumably it ignores the MMU (but doesn't object if one is present, as >> few machines have EIS but no MMU). >> >> > * console terminal (preferrably VT100) >> > * RX01/RX02 floppy disk drives >> > * RL02 disk drive >> > * TU58 tape drive >> >> I assume it needs the CPU, RAM, console and at least one of the mass >> storage devices. It can't need _all_ the drives, surely? > >It only needs one of the drives. > >I just built it and booted the RL02 image on SIMH. It looks pretty cool, of >course I don't know FORTH, so can't actually do anything.... Hi Try : HI ." Hello World" ; HI Dwight ;) > >I suspect the TU58 option means that it's possible to run this on a PDP-11 >that doesn't have any drives, but has two SLU's, just run a TU58 emulator on >a PC. > >> > The Sources >> > >> > SOL is written in PDP-11 assembly language and FORTH. The BTN11 >> > assembler (version 0.9 or later) is required to compile the assembly >> > part of SOL. >> > 40187 2001-07-17 sol-11.tar.gz version 0.4 >> >> Sounds like just what I need (given that I have all of the supported >> hardware!). I will take a look. Thanks.... > >You'll want a UNIX box to build everything. If you don't have a way to >build the images I can through them up on my FTP site (if anyone needs this >it would be best to send me a private email so I'm sure to see the request). > >Now to go googling for some FORTH documentation... > > Zane > From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Jun 25 20:58:13 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:39 2005 Subject: Forth for PDP-11 Message-ID: <200206260158.SAA27114@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Zane H. Healy" > >> >> > SOL-11 - A Small Language and OS for the PDP-11 >> > >> > SOL is a small, non-standard, stand-alone FORTH kernel containing >> > everything that is required to edit, store, recall, compile, and run >> > programs on PDP-11 microcomputers. It is intended for a minimum >> > operating system and programming environment. The FORTH language offers >> > full access to the complete hardware. Device drivers for the console and >> > some block devices are included. > >This is so cool! > >> > Supported Hardware >> > >> > * PDP-11 CPU with EIS (required) >> > * 8K to 28K words of memory > >Dang, the EIS requirement sucks! This would be perfect for PDP-11/03's and >SBC-11/21's. Unfortunatly the /03 needs the KEV11 option, and the SBC-11/21 >is just plain out of luck. > >> Presumably it ignores the MMU (but doesn't object if one is present, as >> few machines have EIS but no MMU). >> >> > * console terminal (preferrably VT100) >> > * RX01/RX02 floppy disk drives >> > * RL02 disk drive >> > * TU58 tape drive >> >> I assume it needs the CPU, RAM, console and at least one of the mass >> storage devices. It can't need _all_ the drives, surely? > >It only needs one of the drives. > >I just built it and booted the RL02 image on SIMH. It looks pretty cool, of >course I don't know FORTH, so can't actually do anything.... > >I suspect the TU58 option means that it's possible to run this on a PDP-11 >that doesn't have any drives, but has two SLU's, just run a TU58 emulator on >a PC. > >> > The Sources >> > >> > SOL is written in PDP-11 assembly language and FORTH. The BTN11 >> > assembler (version 0.9 or later) is required to compile the assembly >> > part of SOL. >> > 40187 2001-07-17 sol-11.tar.gz version 0.4 >> >> Sounds like just what I need (given that I have all of the supported >> hardware!). I will take a look. Thanks.... > >You'll want a UNIX box to build everything. If you don't have a way to >build the images I can through them up on my FTP site (if anyone needs this >it would be best to send me a private email so I'm sure to see the request). > >Now to go googling for some FORTH documentation... > > Zane > Hi Try: http://www.forth.org/ For I/O, you may need to look at the source code some. It varies from amchine to machine. Everything in Forth is a word. A word can be as short as : or longer. These words have actions. Some expect a string, as in : expects a name and ." expect a string. Words that start with . are usually some kind of print. The sequence: 4 . will print the number 4. Here is another fun definition: : .H BASE @ SWAP HEX U. BASE ! ; DECIMAL 45 .H Disk I/O on fig Forth was block I/O. To access the first block: 0 BLOCK ( returns the address of the buffer, usually 1K ) If you type: UPDATE FLUSH it will write the buffer back to the disk. You could modify the data by: 55 0 BLOCK ! UPDATE FLUSH Not a good idea to try until you know what damage is done. The site I just sent does have some tutorials but remember there were several standards. Most are similar but some will be different enough to cause troubles. Examples: 2 NOT will return different values for fig and F89. I forget which but one will be 0 and the other will be FFFD hex or -3. One complements the flag and the other complements the bits. A good book to find is called "Starting Forth" by Leo Brodie. Dwight From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Tue Jun 25 21:07:38 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:39 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Re: any ISIS info out there? Message-ID: <200206260207.TAA27124@clulw009.amd.com> >From: Joe > >Hi Derek, > > > ISIS is a VERY primitive system IMO. It only has six commands total (IIRC) Then again, it supports submit files, conditional execution and return codes. Primitive but more potential power than the early DOS. The only thing I found missing was that it really wasn't a multi-user OS. Dwight > and the file systems is truly STRANGE. I've been wondering about the system >calls too. My manuals mention them but don't provide ANY details and I have a >pretty complete set of manuals. What system are you running it on? I >currently have a 800, an 880 and 235 plus another 235 that I'm storing for >someone else. > > BTW I finally picked up a hard drive for mine after 7 or 8 years of searching. :-) > > Joe > >At 03:41 AM 6/24/02 -0700, you wrote: >>On Mon, Jun 24, 2002 at 02:58:26AM -0700, Derek Peschel wrote: >>> (Yes, Tony, we already talked about the front panel and monitor on one of >>> the Intellec systems, but I think this hardware/software is different.) >> >>At any rate the disk seems to have an additional ROM. Also the manual >>mentions system calls which aren't in the list of commands I have. >> >>-- Derek >>_______________________________________________ >>cctech mailing list >>cctech@classiccmp.org >>http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech >> > >_______________________________________________ >cctech mailing list >cctech@classiccmp.org >http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech > From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jun 25 21:13:52 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:39 2005 Subject: Forth for PDP-11 In-Reply-To: from "Dwight K. Elvey" at Jun 25, 2002 06:41:00 PM Message-ID: <200206260213.g5Q2DqL15854@shell1.aracnet.com> > Hi > Try > > > : HI ." Hello World" ; > > HI > > > Dwight ;) Looks a lot like the "Hello, World" program I found on the net, unfortuantly I'm not having much luck. : HI ." Hello World" ; ."? : HI ."Hello World" ; ."HELLO? : HELLO ."Hello_World" ; ."HELLO_WORLD"? Zane From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Jun 25 21:45:08 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:39 2005 Subject: Forth for PDP-11 In-Reply-To: <200206260213.g5Q2DqL15854@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: You need a space after the ." ." is a word which emits the subsequent characters up to the next " --John -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Zane H. Healy Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 22:14 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Forth for PDP-11 > Hi > Try > > > : HI ." Hello World" ; > > HI > > > Dwight ;) Looks a lot like the "Hello, World" program I found on the net, unfortuantly I'm not having much luck. : HI ." Hello World" ; ."? : HI ."Hello World" ; ."HELLO? : HELLO ."Hello_World" ; ."HELLO_WORLD"? Zane From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jun 25 23:01:43 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:39 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? References: Message-ID: <000401c21cc6$2f62c660$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 4:14 PM Subject: Re: [OT] Waddizzit?? > > Tandy & others did this as well... My CoCos always had one screw taped over > > with a tamper seal - if it was punched, they wouldn't warranty it. Granted, > > Many of those Tandy seals could be peeled off in one piece and stuck back > later :-). And several manufacturers used generic seals (they were > intended to be initialed by somebody at the manufacturers, but generally > weren't) which you could buy anyway. Not that I ever did either of these > things .... > > > it didn't take long for the 90-day warranties to expire, and when I was > > more experienced with computers I knew I could fix anything necessary > > inside one of my machines, so I didn't care... (just like my Tivo - The > > Me too..... I just ignore the seals and dive in. If I break something > then I take full responsibilty for it. On the other hand, if there's a > defective part in there, then the shop who sold me the machine _is_ > required to give me a refund whether I've broken the seal or not. > Provided, of course, I can prove I didn't do any damage. > My own solution to this is simply not to bother with hardware that comes with a warranty beyond the first few weeks. Warranties are, IMHO, just a substitute for thorough testing. I've gotten defective boards from nearly every major manufacturer, and, seal or not, warranty or not, if they arrive dead or nearly so, they go back, if there is a "back" else they're bought at a price that is warranted by the lack of guarantee. What interests me, however, is how you convince a merchant you didn't damage the innards of his product. If he's determined to prevent you from claiming a warranty replacement, I don't see much that you can do. > > As others have pointed out, the CoCo, C128, etc were not intended to be > taken apart by a general user. You could do all the expansion the > manufacturer intended by plugging things into external connectors. > > But people do expect to be able to add expansion cards to their PC, fit a > larger hard drive, and so on. So the seal, while possibly justified, > might be bad marketing. > From spc at conman.org Tue Jun 25 23:07:56 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:40 2005 Subject: Forth for PDP-11 In-Reply-To: <200206260213.g5Q2DqL15854@shell1.aracnet.com> from "Zane H. Healy" at Jun 25, 2002 07:13:52 PM Message-ID: <200206260407.AAA32216@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Zane H. Healy once stated: > > > Hi > > Try > > > > > > : HI ." Hello World" ; > > > > HI > > > > > > Dwight ;) > > Looks a lot like the "Hello, World" program I found on the net, unfortuantly > I'm not having much luck. > > : HI ." Hello World" ; ."? > : HI ."Hello World" ; ."HELLO? > : HELLO ."Hello_World" ; ."HELLO_WORLD"? One other thing about Forth---white space is *very* important and identifiers ... okay, two things about Forth, white space is *very* important, identifiers can contain *any* printable character and it's ... okay three things about Forth, white space is *very* important, identifiers can contain *any* printable character, it's stack based and ... Oh drat it all. Let's start over again ... White space is very important since anything that *isn't* white space is taken as a token and used to look up the current meaning. ." is a typical Forth word that prints anything past it up to the next double quote. In fact, it's perfectly legal to do: : 2 1 ; to redefine the sequence `2' to push the value 1 onto the stack (normally, if a space delimited token isn't found, Forth will then attempt to convert it (using the current base) into a number, and if that fails, then you get an undefined error message (which is what is happening to you above). Some systems actually do define: : 0 0 ; : 1 1 ; : 2 2 ; as that is slightly faster and takes less space than storing a literal number in the internal representation (although that really depends upon the Forth system). -spc (Bring out the comfy chair ... ) From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Tue Jun 25 23:30:52 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:40 2005 Subject: Resource on web for describing hard disk crash? In-Reply-To: <200206252002.VAA11130@citadel.metropolis.local> References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020626003052.01b90d10@pop1.epm.net.co> At 09:02 PM 6/25/02 +0100, you wrote: >> Like, I know from experience that when I hear a hard drive occasionally >> buzz or give out a momentary high pitched squeal, it means the bearings >> are failing and it will probably eventually crash (maybe not soon, but >> eventually). >> >I've had 2 hard drives* fail in this way. On dismantling it was clear >that in both cases the original grease had gone hard. Both made that >high pitched squeal. Both ran for a few months like that before they >stopped turning for good. I've seen this happen most frequently on hot-running drives (such as the barracudas and those 2GB HVD SCSI that HP used in their '700 hundred series in the early 90's--I forget the model, C2490? ). Thus, it makes sense that the failure mode was that of the grease going hard; this should be specially frequent at higher temperatures. I've had quite a few ST410800 (WD, N and W suffixes) 5.25" drives up and running continuously for >5 years in a variety of machines, though. They are incredibly reliable. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From dan at ekoan.com Tue Jun 25 23:55:28 2002 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:40 2005 Subject: Resource on web for describing hard disk crash? In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020626003052.01b90d10@pop1.epm.net.co> References: <200206252002.VAA11130@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020626004621.038e95c0@enigma> At 12:30 AM 6/26/02 -0400, you wrote: >I've seen this happen most frequently on hot-running drives (such >as the barracudas and those 2GB HVD SCSI that HP used in their '700 >hundred series in the early 90's--I forget the model, C2490? ). I'll have to check our HP service contract receipts -- we had at least three drive failures in four years on an HP (Apollo) 715/75 workstation. Between that and the DAT drive failures on our 9000/G40s, the legendary HP quality seemed to be scarce in the early-90's and apparently has only gotten worse since then, especially in their PC and calculator products. Cheers, Dan From foo at siconic.com Tue Jun 25 23:47:29 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:40 2005 Subject: Looking for manual: Network Systems Corporation's Network Security Router Message-ID: I'm looking for the manuals for Network Systems Corporation "Security Router". I am most interested in the section describing the Packet Control Facility (PCF). I need the edition published prior to 10/1994 (most likely edition 1.0 or 2.0). Possible bounty ($$$) involved ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dpeschel at eskimo.com Wed Jun 26 00:26:27 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:40 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] any ISIS info out there? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020624201143.48c7a454@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>; from rigdonj@cfl.rr.com on Mon, Jun 24, 2002 at 08:11:43PM +0000 References: <20020624025825.A29649@eskimo.eskimo.com> <3.0.6.16.20020624201143.48c7a454@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20020625222626.D14702@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Mon, Jun 24, 2002 at 08:11:43PM +0000, Joe wrote: > At 02:58 AM 6/24/02 -0700, you wrote: > >Since I've been curious about ISIS for some time, I was glad to finally > >borrow a copy of the _ISIS-II System User's Guide_. Comparing ISIS to > >CP/M is quite instructive. I already knew that CP/M has a few design > >flaws which ISIS lacks. > > > On the other hand, I was surprised at how much > >memory ISIS takes up. > > What do you mean? I'm only running 32k on two of my systems and they work just fine. I consider that pretty good for a non-ROM based OS. ISIS takes up 12K not including the CLI. I read that the first versions of CP/M took up 8K (which I guess would include the CCP). Later versions reduced that by bank-switching the BIOS. ISIS also requires extra buffers for various reasons (line-edited files vs. not, disk files vs. not, files used by system calls). Each buffer is 128 bytes. I remember CP/M FCBs as being smaller but I could be wrong. Admittedly ISIS machines have at least 32K, maybe 64K, so a 32K ISIS system would have more free memory (20K or so) than a 16K CP/M system (8K or so). -- Derek From dpeschel at eskimo.com Wed Jun 26 00:46:26 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:40 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Re: any ISIS info out there? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020624201312.33b7f738@pop-server.cfl.rr.com>; from rigdonj@cfl.rr.com on Mon, Jun 24, 2002 at 08:13:12PM +0000 References: <20020624025825.A29649@eskimo.eskimo.com> <20020624025825.A29649@eskimo.eskimo.com> <20020624034115.A1714@eskimo.eskimo.com> <3.0.6.16.20020624201312.33b7f738@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20020625224626.E14702@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Mon, Jun 24, 2002 at 08:13:12PM +0000, Joe wrote: [I put returns in your text] > ISIS is a VERY primitive system IMO. It only has six commands total My original point was that it is less primitive (in most ways) than CP/M. > (IIRC) and the file systems is truely STRANGE. I've been wondering If you count the programming tools, the commands are: the CLI DEBUG (built-in command) ATTRIB COPY DELETE DIR EDIT FORMAT RENAME SUBMIT BINOBJ HEXOBJ OBJHEX LINK LOCATE LIB ASM80 PLM80 ICE80 UPM Admittedly there are no TYPE or DUMP commands but you could easily write them (and you can use COPY to type files). CP/M and early MS-DOS came with more or less the same commands as above. Why is the file system strange? It has a boot track, disk label, directory, blocks of pointers to data, and blocks of data. The Apple ][ DOS file system, and probably others, work pretty much the same way. And ISIS records file length to the nearest byte _unlike_ CP/M. ISIS does have "magic" files that let you access the disk label, boot track, and directory, but that's a _good_ thing (and other file systems, like VMS and I think FILES-11, have the same feature). > about the system calls too. My manuals mention them but don't provide > ANY details and I have a pretty complete set of manuals. What system The manual I have describes the system calls pretty well. It doesn't describe the format of the "magic" files or how to handle wildcards. > are you running it on? I currently have a 800, an 880 and 235 plus > another 235 that I'm storing for someone else. I'm not. As I said in my original post, I only have the manual and it's not even mine. And I don't know the chronology of the MDSs either. BTW the manual is for version II. I know Version I lacked some features like relocatable object files. -- Derek From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jun 25 18:32:05 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:40 2005 Subject: The Fuzzball (was: final brainteaser for the day) In-Reply-To: "R. D. Davis" "The Fuzzball (was: final brainteaser for the day)" (Jun 25, 9:09) References: <10206250944.ZM28068@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20020625130900.GA18927@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <10206260032.ZM28504@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 25, 9:09, R. D. Davis wrote: > Quothe Pete Turnbull, from writings of Tue, Jun 25, 2002 at 08:44:50AM +0000: > > You missed Fuzzball. > > Has anyone done any work on The Fuzzball during the past several > years? It looks interesting, but, from what I recall, it isn't > bootable. AFAIR it boots from RT-11. I downloaded a copy years ago and haven't looked since. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Wed Jun 26 03:37:05 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:40 2005 Subject: Bulk Tape Eraser: Revisited Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E71@BUSH02> or maybe I just have to unplug it rather than switch it off When you turn it off, and leave it in Line mode, and have an audio feed to the Line such as from a VCR, you can hear the audio real silently coming thru it, so there is a good chance the on/off button only does a standby mode. With there still being sound this seems likely. If the magnetism is strong it may take two weeks of switching off overnight to visibly reduce it and once or twice a week after that to keep it gone. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From meltie at myrealbox.com Wed Jun 26 04:26:51 2002 From: meltie at myrealbox.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:40 2005 Subject: Forth for PDP-11 In-Reply-To: <200206260158.SAA27114@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200206260158.SAA27114@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <1025083615.2312.0.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> On Wed, 2002-06-26 at 02:58, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > A good book to find is called "Starting Forth" by Leo Brodie. > Dwight Seconded, this book taught me all my forth goodness. Alex -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. Boink like she's the first woman you've ever seen naked. From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Wed Jun 26 08:41:18 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:41 2005 Subject: The Fuzzball (was: final brainteaser for the day) References: <10206250944.ZM28068@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20020625130900.GA18927@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <10206260032.ZM28504@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3D19C47E.5C04F7B@compsys.to> >Pete Turnbull wrote: > >On Jun 25, 9:09, R. D. Davis wrote: > > Has anyone done any work on The Fuzzball during the past several > > years? It looks interesting, but, from what I recall, it isn't > > bootable. > AFAIR it boots from RT-11. I downloaded a copy years ago and haven't > looked since. Jerome Fine replies: I have not ever tried Fuzzball since RT-11 is obviously so much more powerful, but I suspect that Ersatz-11 can also directly boot Fuzzball since the primary boot program does not make the same assumption that the DEC boot ROMs make. Not positive, but I seem to remember that! Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Jun 26 09:12:56 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:41 2005 Subject: The Fuzzball In-Reply-To: <10206260032.ZM28504@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10206250944.ZM28068@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20020625130900.GA18927@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <10206260032.ZM28504@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20020626141256.GA20208@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Pete Turnbull, from writings of Tue, Jun 25, 2002 at 11:32:05PM +0000: > AFAIR it boots from RT-11. I downloaded a copy years ago and haven't > looked since. Yes, I realize that The Fuzzball boots from RT-11; however, it would be more useful as an operating system if it could be used as a stand-alone operating system. Some time ago, I recall an e-mail discussion, some time ago, with someone about making this an OS that could be booted from a disk; I'll have to check through old e-mail and see what I can find. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Jun 26 12:29:49 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:41 2005 Subject: OT: Been There, Screamed About That Message-ID: This is beautiful. I've seen most of the pieces before, but I like it still. Doc Suggestions From Your Friends In Information Technologies Support 1) When you call us to have your computer moved, be sure to leave it buried under half a ton of postcards, baby pictures, stuffed animals, dried flowers, bowling trophies and children's art. We don't have a life, and we find it deeply moving to catch a fleeting glimpse of yours. 2) Don't write anything down. Ever. We can play back the error messages from here. 3) When an IT person says he's coming right over, go for coffee. That way you won't be there when we need your password. It's nothing for us to remember 300 screensaver passwords. 4) When you call the help desk, state what you want, not what's keeping you from getting it. We don't need to know that you can't get into your mail because your computer won't power on at all. 5) When IT Support sends you an email titled "Important!", delete it at once. We're just testing. 6) When an IT person is eating lunch at his desk, walk right in and spill your guts right out. We exist only to serve. 7) Send urgent email all in uppercase. The mail server picks it up and flags it as a rush delivery. 8) When the photocopier doesn't work, call computer support. There's electronics in it. 9) When you're getting a NO DIAL TONE message at home, call computer support. We can fix your telephone line from here. 10) When you have a dozen old computer screens to get rid of, call computer support. We're collectors. 11) When something's wrong with your home PC, dump it on an IT person's chair with no name, no phone number and no description of the problem. We love a puzzle. 12) When you bring your own personal home PC for repair at the office, leave the disks and documentation at home. We'll find all the settings and drivers somewhere..... 13) When an IT person tells you that computer screens don't have cartridges in them, argue. We love a good argument. 14) When an IT person tells you that he'll be there shortly, reply in a scathing tone of voice: "And just how many weeks do you mean by shortly?" That motivates us. 15) When the printer won't print, re-send the job at least 20 times. Print jobs frequently get sucked into black holes. 16) When the printer still won't print after 20 tries, send the job to all 68 printers in the company. One of them is bound to work. 17) There's no need to learn the proper name for anything technical. We know exactly what you mean by "my thingy blew up" 18) Don't EVER use the online help. Online help is for wimps. 19) If the mouse cable keeps knocking down the framed picture of your dog, lift the computer and stuff the cable under it. Mouse cables were designed to have 20kg of computer sitting on top of them. 20) If the space bar on your keyboard doesn't work, blame it on the mail upgrade. Keyboards are actually very happy with half a pound of muffin crumbs and nail clippings in them. 21) Whenever you get a message saying "Are you sure?" click on that Yes button as fast as you can. Hell, if you weren't sure, you wouldn't be doing it, would you? 22) When you find an IT person on the phone with his bank, sit uninvited on the corner of his desk and stare at him until he hangs up. We don't have any money to speak of anyway. 23) Feel perfectly free to say things like "I don't know nothing about that computer crap." We don't mind at all hearing our area of professional expertise referred to as feces. 24) When an IT person gets on the elevator pushing $600,000 worth of computer equipment on a cart, ask in a very loud voice: "Good grief, you take the elevator to go DOWN one floor?!?" That's another one that cracks us up no end. 25) When you need to change the toner cartridge in a printer, call IT Support. Changing a toner cartridge is an extremely complex task, and Hewlett-Packard recommends that it be performed only by a professional engineer with a master's degree in nuclear physics. 26) When you can't find someone in the government directory, call IT Support. 27) When you have a lock to pick on an old file cabinet, call IT Support. We love to hack. 28) When something's the matter with your computer, ask your secretary to call the help desk. We enjoy the challenge of having to deal with a third party who doesn't know anything about the problem. 29) When you receive a 30mb (huge) movie file, send it to everyone as a mail attachment. We've got lots of disk space on that mail server. 30) Don't even think of breaking large print jobs down into smaller chunks. Somebody else might get a chance to squeeze a memo into the queue. 31) When you lose your car keys, send an email to the entire company. People out in Pofadder, Nebraska like to keep abreast of what's going on. 32) Don't bother to tell us when you move computers around on your own. Computer names are just a cosmetic feature. 33) When you bump into an IT person at the grocery store on a Saturday, ask a computer question. Heck, ask him to come look at it! We do weekends. An overdone burger and a warm beer is always fair compensation for several hours of weekend work. Thanks, Your Friends In IT Support From stanb at dial.pipex.com Wed Jun 26 03:17:19 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:41 2005 Subject: Forth for PDP-11 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 25 Jun 2002 18:05:59 PDT." <200206260105.g5Q15xO13405@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <200206260817.JAA13990@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Zane H. Healy" said: > Now to go googling for some FORTH documentation... http://www.forth.org/ or http://www.taygeta.com/forth.html -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 26 14:20:55 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:41 2005 Subject: Gatorbox (was RE: APPLEVISION Monitor) In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014678A2@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <20020626192055.59186.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- David Woyciesjes wrote: > Or, if you can find a Cayman GatorBox GX-R, which provides a > LocalTalk-Ethernet bridge, DECnet routing, UNIX-LocalTalk printing, and > UNIX based files services... I'd been meaning to bring up GatorBoxen since I saw pallets of them at the Dayton ComputerFest last August. ISTR they were in the $10-$20 range. My only experience was with one (not sure about the model) at Scott Base. It was fine until they wanted to change some networking parameter but did not have the passwords (the technician who installed it had been gone for years, and he probably gave the passwords to the Station Manager who had been gone just as long, I'd wager). I think, in the end, we couldn't make changes because we couldn't get around the missing password, and shipping the box back to the vendor was not an option because the next plane wasn't for 3 months. So... I had contemplated picking up one of the boxes I saw at Dayton, but was concerned about passwords. Does anyone on the list have a GatorBox? If so, what models? Docs? Know of any backdoors to get around missing passwords? In the meantime, I'll stick with the $10 PPC Macs I've been getting, and when I do occasionally need to fire up a Compact Mac, I do have a SCSI<->Ethernet box that works fine. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Jun 26 14:24:22 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:41 2005 Subject: Fw: Latest Finds in Houston Message-ID: <009d01c21d47$149ea520$a7000240@oemcomputer> ----- Original Message ----- From: Keys To: cctech@classiccmp Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 1:22 PM Subject: Latest Finds in Houston 1. Several TI 99/4A cartridges: Extended Basic PHM3026 Plato Interpreter Solid State PHM3122 Logo II OHM 3109 Editor/Assembler PHM 3055 Microsoft Multiplan PHM 313 Return To Pirates Isle PHM 3189 2. Some Atari 2600 cartridges 3. PB Legend 520SX system 4. Silver-Reed EXP770 printer 5. Samsung Composite color monitor 6. TurboPad for TurboGrafix16 still looking for power supplies for these puppies. 7. Sega control pad for the Master system. 8. Several other items to new to list here. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020626/d3fa1fc7/attachment.html From foo at siconic.com Wed Jun 26 14:31:35 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:41 2005 Subject: Fw: Latest Finds in Houston In-Reply-To: <009d01c21d47$149ea520$a7000240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Jun 2002, Keys wrote: > Plato Interpreter Solid State PHM3122 Holy Bovine! That's quite a score. > 3. PB Legend 520SX system Holy Bovine Turd! Why on Earth would you collect that? :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Jun 26 13:22:46 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:41 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Latest Finds in Houston Message-ID: <008c01c21d3e$795de650$a7000240@oemcomputer> 1. Several TI 99/4A cartridges: Extended Basic PHM3026 Plato Interpreter Solid State PHM3122 Logo II OHM 3109 Editor/Assembler PHM 3055 Microsoft Multiplan PHM 313 Return To Pirates Isle PHM 3189 2. Some Atari 2600 cartridges 3. PB Legend 520SX system 4. Silver-Reed EXP770 printer 5. Samsung Composite color monitor 6. TurboPad for TurboGrafix16 still looking for power supplies for these puppies. 7. Sega control pad for the Master system. 8. Several other items to new to list here. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020626/85ae213a/attachment.html From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed Jun 26 15:48:02 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:41 2005 Subject: Gatorbox (was RE: APPLEVISION Monitor) Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A56@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Ethan Dicks > > > --- David Woyciesjes wrote: > > Or, if you can find a Cayman GatorBox GX-R, which provides a > > LocalTalk-Ethernet bridge, DECnet routing, UNIX-LocalTalk printing, and > > UNIX based files services... > > I'd been meaning to bring up GatorBoxen since I saw pallets of them > at the Dayton ComputerFest last August. ISTR they were in the $10-$20 > range. > > My only experience was with one (not sure about the model) at Scott Base. > It was fine until they wanted to change some networking parameter but > did not have the passwords (the technician who installed it had been > gone for years, and he probably gave the passwords to the Station > Manager who had been gone just as long, I'd wager).. > > So... I had contemplated picking up one of the boxes I saw at Dayton, > but was concerned about passwords. Does anyone on the list have a > GatorBox? If so, what models? Docs? Know of any backdoors to get > around missing passwords? > > In the meantime, I'll stick with the $10 PPC Macs I've been getting, and > when I do occasionally need to fire up a Compact Mac, I do have a > SCSI<->Ethernet box that works fine. > - Well, my GatorStar GX-R is the rackmount version. And I know Chris has the version that goes into a Cabletron (?) network hub, as a module. Ever start that up Chris? And sounds like my situation. There's admin passwords on mine. Haven't had a chance to hack them yet. I should try that out soon. Granted, none of my home network is set up right now... You can get software to reflash the firmware, using a Mac on it's console port. That should eliminate the passwords for you. Cayman, which is now part of Netopia, used to have their software on the website, but I can't find it now. Looks like Netopia dumped it. I have the files around here somewhere. As for documentation, I found... http://opcenter.cso.uiuc.edu/nas//nash/mac/gbox.html I also found this page just now in the WayBack machine... http://web.archive.org/web/19970705033723/www.cayman.com/gx.html http://web.archive.org/web/19970705034344/www.cayman.com/specs.html Let me know if you need more assistance. -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Jun 26 16:02:58 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:41 2005 Subject: Fw: Latest Finds in Houston References: Message-ID: <00c701c21d54$da70d040$a7000240@oemcomputer> The PB 520SX came with the Lot I purchased for $10. It can traded later I hope. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: "cctalk@classiccmp" Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 2:31 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Latest Finds in Houston > On Wed, 26 Jun 2002, Keys wrote: > > > Plato Interpreter Solid State PHM3122 > > Holy Bovine! That's quite a score. > > > 3. PB Legend 520SX system > > Holy Bovine Turd! Why on Earth would you collect that? :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Wed Jun 26 16:34:04 2002 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:41 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Sony Data Discman Message-ID: <64242858@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 13 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020626/ef628d7c/attachment.bin From mythtech at mac.com Wed Jun 26 16:42:24 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:42 2005 Subject: Gatorbox (was RE: APPLEVISION Monitor) Message-ID: >And I know Chris >has the version that goes into a Cabletron (?) network hub, as a module. >Ever start that up Chris? Not yet. I have more toys kicking around that I WANT to play with, than I have time TO play with. Although, since Passwords seems to be an issue, I should really get it up and check it before it is too late to contact the person we bought it from in case I need a password. > As for documentation, I found... I also have a photo copy of the manuals that came with my Gator (the manuals went to Dave as part of a halfsies deal to get mine cheaper). So I can make more copies easily with them if anyone needs a set (now I can drop them on the sheet feeder and walk away.. it was this first set that was a dog as I had to turn the page, press the copy button, repeat for 3 somewhat decent sized manuals). -chris From jingber at ix.netcom.com Wed Jun 26 17:17:50 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:42 2005 Subject: Questions about Central Point Deluxe Option board Message-ID: <1025129874.2053.49.camel@netfinity> Central Point Deluxe Option board: I don't recall how this card is supposed to interface with the disks. There is a card edge connector and a row of pins on the board. Does the board go inbetween the FDC and drives, or does it replace the floppy controller entirely? Any special cabling required, and can it run two drives? Thanks, Jeff From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jun 26 17:39:51 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:42 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Sony Data Discman In-Reply-To: from "Marion Bates" at Jun 26, 2002 05:34:04 PM Message-ID: <200206262239.g5QMdqu13149@shell1.aracnet.com> > From the Obsolete-At-Birth department: I've got this old Sony Electronic Book > Player, aka Data Discman. Model # DD-8. Unlike all the others I've seen, it does > not fold shut -- it's like an old Gameboy, only bigger. I think it may be a very > old model, but I dunno. Wow! I remember these, they've got to be close to 12-15 years old based on where I remember seeing them. I thought they were really cool, but support for them was way to limited, and they cost way to much for me to afford at the time. Finally with my Sony Clie, I've got a usable electronic book (of course it still cost to much). > My brother has the exact same model, same vintage (we each got one as a gift 10 > years ago or whenever it was) and his apparently does the same thing. In both > cases, the player was working fine, and it got put away on a closet shelf (no > batteries) -- then a few months later, we go to use it and discover mysterious > screen death. In other words, they weren't dropped or overheated or anything > obvious like that, as far as we know. I can't help, but I've seen almost the exact same problem with the original Nintendo Gameboy's. I've had two of the originals, and in both cases, I put them up without batteries, and when I went to use them the next time, sizeable portions of the screen wouldn't display anything (entire vertical lines). Zane From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jun 26 17:39:08 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:42 2005 Subject: Gatorbox (was RE: APPLEVISION Monitor) In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Gatorbox (was RE: APPLEVISION Monitor)" (Jun 26, 12:20) References: <20020626192055.59186.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10206262339.ZM29631@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jun 26, 12:20, Ethan Dicks wrote: > So... I had contemplated picking up one of the boxes I saw at Dayton, > but was concerned about passwords. Does anyone on the list have a > GatorBox? If so, what models? Docs? Know of any backdoors to get > around missing passwords? I have a GatorBoxCS, and I have all the docs for it. It's not running at the moment (temporary shortage of mains sockets) but IIRC you can reset it to factory defaults. It might need a server to get a boot image from, though. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Jun 26 19:50:03 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:42 2005 Subject: Questions about Central Point Deluxe Option board In-Reply-To: <1025129874.2053.49.camel@netfinity> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020626195003.3a679610@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Jeff, I used to have one of these so I'll try to answer your questions as best as I can remember. It goes between the regular disk controller and the floppy drives. I *believe* you remove the cable from the existing disk controller and plug it into the card edge connector on the Option card (that preserves any cable twists and drive addresssing) and then installed a supplied cable between the edge connector of the existing controller and the row of pins on the Option board. Yes, it can handle two drives. In fact, IIRC it will handle four drives if your system can handle four drives on a single cable. It does NOTHING during normal system operation. But when you run the Central Point SW it completely takes over control of the drives and copies (or edits) ANYTHING on the disk that the drive can physically access including all the stuff that MS-DOS and standard drive controllers can't access. You can access 40+ tracks (as many as 43 depending on the drive) and you can copy, access, edit the address blocks, CRC blocks, etc etc. It can even simulate a laser burned spot or weakly magnetized sectors on a disk. Both of these were commonly used anti-disk copying gimmicks. I never found a copy protected disk that I couldn't duplicate with the Option card. I wish I''d keep mine. Joe At 06:17 PM 6/26/02 -0400, you wrote: > > >Central Point Deluxe Option board: I don't recall how this card is >supposed to interface with the disks. There is a card edge connector >and a row of pins on the board. Does the board go inbetween the FDC and >drives, or does it replace the floppy controller entirely? Any special >cabling required, and can it run two drives? > >Thanks, >Jeff > > > From jingber at ix.netcom.com Wed Jun 26 18:48:31 2002 From: jingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: Questions about Central Point Deluxe Option board In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020626195003.3a679610@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.16.20020626195003.3a679610@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1025135315.1199.59.camel@netfinity> Joe, That makes quite a bit of sense, and how I remember the cabling as well. I need to make a suitable cable to go from the drive controller to the option board it would seem. The issue is probably whether or not the cable has a twist - I would assume it would NOT, since the standard floppy cable would take care of that. I've been meaning to set the Option Board up once my PC is back together, and saw this picture on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2034301058 Looking at the stylized picture on the manual cover, it appears the OB is replacing the drive controller. Needless to say this doesn't mean much. I think it's safe to assume that the controller sits between the drives and the OEM controller. Would anyone happen to have a manual that could confirm our suspicians? Thanks, Jeff On Wed, 2002-06-26 at 15:50, Joe wrote: > Jeff, > > I used to have one of these so I'll try to answer your questions as best as I can remember. It goes between the regular disk controller and the floppy drives. I *believe* you remove the cable from the existing disk controller and plug it into the card edge connector on the Option card (that preserves any cable twists and drive addresssing) and then installed a supplied cable between the edge connector of the existing controller and the row of pins on the Option board. Yes, it can handle two drives. In fact, IIRC it will handle four drives if your system can handle four drives on a single cable. It does NOTHING during normal system operation. But when you run the Central Point SW it completely takes over control of the drives and copies (or edits) ANYTHING on the disk that the drive can physically access including all the stuff that MS-DOS and standard drive controllers can't access. You can access 40+ tracks (as many as 43 depending on the drive) and you can copy, access! > , edit the address blocks, CRC blocks, etc etc. It can even simulate a laser burned spot or weakly magnetized sectors on a disk. Both of these were commonly used anti-disk copying gimmicks. I never found a copy protected disk that I couldn't duplicate with the Option card. I wish I''d keep mine. > > Joe > > At 06:17 PM 6/26/02 -0400, you wrote: > > > > > >Central Point Deluxe Option board: I don't recall how this card is > >supposed to interface with the disks. There is a card edge connector > >and a row of pins on the board. Does the board go inbetween the FDC and > >drives, or does it replace the floppy controller entirely? Any special > >cabling required, and can it run two drives? > > > >Thanks, > >Jeff > > > > > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 26 16:54:48 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: Forth for PDP-11 In-Reply-To: <200206260105.g5Q15xO13405@shell1.aracnet.com> from "Zane H. Healy" at Jun 25, 2 06:05:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4356 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020626/ed72dc88/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jun 26 19:27:17 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: Questions about Central Point Deluxe Option board In-Reply-To: <1025135315.1199.59.camel@netfinity> Message-ID: On 26 Jun 2002, Jeffrey H. Ingber wrote: > That makes quite a bit of sense, and how I remember the cabling as > well. I need to make a suitable cable to go from the drive controller > to the option board it would seem. The issue is probably whether or not > the cable has a twist - I would assume it would NOT, since the standard > floppy cable would take care of that. No twist. Just straight 34 pin ribbon cable with a dual row header on one end and a card edge connector on the other. You could take an old AT floppy cable, and cut it off before the twist. That's a bit longer than you need, but works fine. > Looking at the stylized picture on the manual cover, it appears the OB > is replacing the drive controller. Needless to say this doesn't mean DOES NOT > Would anyone happen to have a manual that could confirm our suspicians? Don't need no stinkin' manual. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 26 16:40:31 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: Bulk Tape Eraser: Revisited In-Reply-To: from "Chris" at Jun 25, 2 09:01:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 672 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020626/6f2ae36c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 26 17:55:27 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: Forth for PDP-11 In-Reply-To: <200206260213.g5Q2DqL15854@shell1.aracnet.com> from "Zane H. Healy" at Jun 25, 2 07:13:52 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1537 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020626/0c88524f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 26 18:14:41 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? In-Reply-To: <000401c21cc6$2f62c660$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jun 25, 2 10:01:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 5002 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020627/6fedf555/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 26 18:18:03 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: Resource on web for describing hard disk crash? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020626004621.038e95c0@enigma> from "Dan Veeneman" at Jun 26, 2 00:55:28 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 598 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020627/0e9f4b6b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 26 18:40:53 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: OT: Been There, Screamed About That In-Reply-To: from "Doc Shipley" at Jun 26, 2 12:29:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3749 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020627/374073fa/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jun 26 19:28:42 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: Questions about Central Point Deluxe Option board In-Reply-To: <1025135315.1199.59.camel@netfinity> from "Jeffrey H. Ingber" at Jun 26, 2 07:48:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1446 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020627/9f1d54da/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jun 26 19:35:37 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: Questions about Central Point Deluxe Option board In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020626195003.3a679610@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > board. Yes, it can handle two drives. In fact, IIRC it will handle > four drives if your system can handle four drives on a single cable. The software supplied with it can only handle two drives. > It does NOTHING during normal system operation. But when you run the > Central Point SW it completely takes over control of the drives and Well,... It supplements the existing controller to provide a "flux transition" level of track read. It still uses the stock controller for track seeking, etc. > copies (or edits) ANYTHING on the disk that the drive can physically ALMOST anything. > these were commonly used anti-disk copying gimmicks. I never found a > copy protected disk that I couldn't duplicate with the Option card. I > wish I''d keep mine. On a bet, once, I made a disk from which a usable copy could be made with DISKCOPY on a stock 5150, but that the option board, with it's software, could not copy. Hint: it had problems with DISKCOPY when using Teac drives. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jun 26 19:50:08 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: Questions about Central Point Deluxe Option board In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > The board contained one large ASIC, so I couldn't figure out what it was The earlier (NOT "Deluxe") version was available in a version of discrete TTL. It shouldn't be too hard for us to find one, if you want to check it out. > AFAIK it therefore supported as many drives as your original controller > could support. The hardware did, but the software needed to be patched in a few places if you want to use that software with more than two drives. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jim at jkearney.com Wed Jun 26 19:46:16 2002 From: jim at jkearney.com (Jim Kearney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Sony Data Discman References: <64242858@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: <071801c21d74$0c154e90$1901090a@xpace.net> >Question 2: >Is the EBXA/EBG format used by these things a completely dead technology or what? I can't seem to find any of >this type electronic book for sale, not even used. My Googling turns up results about the sort of e-book you download >as a PDF, not the actual mini-cdrom-caddy things used by this gadget. I think you're very unlikely to find much of anything. My company ported our retrieval software (CD Answer) to it for Sony because their built-in search functionality was too limited for larger databases and, as I recall, the data formats were very closed and very specific to that device. They didn't sell many at all, and in fact a couple of years later tried to unload truckloads of them to us for use in retrieval applications. Unfortunately the CPU was so slow, and the memory so limited that we really couldn't use them. Also, even when it worked the screen sucked. There was also a more capable model, the Bookman, but it didn't do so well either. IIRC, the only software I saw was a dictionary/thesaurus disc, and some sort of traveler's guide disc. I think there was a disc with a bunch of public domain literature, too. Jim From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Wed Jun 26 19:54:32 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: Forth for PDP-11 Message-ID: <200206270054.RAA28495@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Zane H. Healy" > >> Hi >> Try >> >> >> : HI ." Hello World" ; >> >> HI >> >> >> Dwight ;) > >Looks a lot like the "Hello, World" program I found on the net, unfortuantly >I'm not having much luck. > >: HI ." Hello World" ; ."? >: HI ."Hello World" ; ."HELLO? >: HELLO ."Hello_World" ; ."HELLO_WORLD"? > > > Zane > Hi Try doing VLIST. You should get a list of all the words that are in this Forth. Look for words with " in them and $ in them. I doubt that it is missing ." but it might be. Dwight From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jun 26 23:25:14 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: Forth for PDP-11 In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Jun 26, 2002 10:54:48 PM Message-ID: <200206270425.g5R4PEo28673@shell1.aracnet.com> > 2 3 + . > > That's a total of 8 keys to press -- > > > You should get > 5 OK > on the terminal (or something like that, with a 5 in it). Unfortunatly it results in: 2 3 + . .? I just realized that there is documentation included, it's in the 'sol.sd', so I'm going to have to pour through it. I get the distinct impression that it's not working the way it should, so I need to see if I've installed it incorrectly (the first look through makes it look like it's installed correctly). > > I suspect the TU58 option means that it's possible to run this on a PDP-11 > > that doesn't have any drives, but has two SLU's, just run a TU58 emulator on > > a PC. > > Almost certainly yes. Of course eccentrics like me would probably _want_ > to try the real TU58 :-) If it supported the 11/03 or Falcon, I'd consider trying it with real TU58's. However, in looking at the docs now that I've finally found them I suspect that TU58's are intended to only be for installing on a disk. > Will an old version of Linux do? Or should I finally try to get Release 7 > running on the 11/45 (or BSD on the 11/44)? I don't have time to play Unless you need a newer version of gcc than you have installed, an old version of Linux should work (I assume by old you're talking 1.x). I don't know if this is something that could be built on a PDP-11 running UNIX. Zane From donm at cts.com Wed Jun 26 23:59:27 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: Questions about Central Point Deluxe Option board In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Jun 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On 26 Jun 2002, Jeffrey H. Ingber wrote: > > That makes quite a bit of sense, and how I remember the cabling as > > well. I need to make a suitable cable to go from the drive controller > > to the option board it would seem. The issue is probably whether or not > > the cable has a twist - I would assume it would NOT, since the standard > > floppy cable would take care of that. > > No twist. > Just straight 34 pin ribbon cable with a dual row header on one end and a > card edge connector on the other. You could take an old AT floppy cable, > and cut it off before the twist. That's a bit longer than you need, but > works fine. And make sure that J4 & J5 are jumpered to AT/Compaq if your connection is from FDC to the card-edge on the DOB. - don > > Looking at the stylized picture on the manual cover, it appears the OB > > is replacing the drive controller. Needless to say this doesn't mean > DOES NOT > > > Would anyone happen to have a manual that could confirm our suspicians? > Don't need no stinkin' manual. > > From hansp at aconit.org Thu Jun 27 05:08:58 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: Forth for PDP-11 References: <200206270425.g5R4PEo28673@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3D1AE43A.6060009@aconit.org> Zane H. Healy wrote: >>2 3 + . >> >>That's a total of 8 keys to press -- >> >> >>You should get >>5 OK >>on the terminal (or something like that, with a 5 in it). > > > Unfortunatly it results in: > > 2 3 + . .? The comment on the SOL page says it is a "non-standard" FORTH so perhaps reading the docs might be advisable. -- hbp From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jun 27 08:08:06 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: Questions about Central Point Deluxe Option board In-Reply-To: <1025135315.1199.59.camel@netfinity> References: <3.0.6.16.20020626195003.3a679610@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.16.20020626195003.3a679610@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020627080806.47071036@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Jeff, I had a couple of Option cards and (I think) a manual that I gave away when I cleaned up last year. I think I gave the stuff to Mike Haas . You might be able to get him to dig the manual out and check it. Joe At 07:48 PM 6/26/02 -0400, you wrote: >Joe, > >That makes quite a bit of sense, and how I remember the cabling as >well. I need to make a suitable cable to go from the drive controller >to the option board it would seem. The issue is probably whether or not >the cable has a twist - I would assume it would NOT, since the standard >floppy cable would take care of that. > >I've been meaning to set the Option Board up once my PC is back >together, and saw this picture on Ebay: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2034301058 > >Looking at the stylized picture on the manual cover, it appears the OB >is replacing the drive controller. Needless to say this doesn't mean >much. I think it's safe to assume that the controller sits between the >drives and the OEM controller. > >Would anyone happen to have a manual that could confirm our suspicians? > >Thanks, >Jeff > > >On Wed, 2002-06-26 at 15:50, Joe wrote: >> Jeff, >> >> I used to have one of these so I'll try to answer your questions as best as I can remember. It goes between the regular disk controller and the floppy drives. I *believe* you remove the cable from the existing disk controller and plug it into the card edge connector on the Option card (that preserves any cable twists and drive addresssing) and then installed a supplied cable between the edge connector of the existing controller and the row of pins on the Option board. Yes, it can handle two drives. In fact, IIRC it will handle four drives if your system can handle four drives on a single cable. It does NOTHING during normal system operation. But when you run the Central Point SW it completely takes over control of the drives and copies (or edits) ANYTHING on the disk that the drive can physically access including all the stuff that MS-DOS and standard drive controllers can't access. You can access 40+ tracks (as many as 43 depending on the drive) and you can copy, acc! e! > ss! >> , edit the address blocks, CRC blocks, etc etc. It can even simulate a laser burned spot or weakly magnetized sectors on a disk. Both of these were commonly used anti-disk copying gimmicks. I never found a copy protected disk that I couldn't duplicate with the Option card. I wish I''d keep mine. >> >> Joe >> >> At 06:17 PM 6/26/02 -0400, you wrote: >> > >> > >> >Central Point Deluxe Option board: I don't recall how this card is >> >supposed to interface with the disks. There is a card edge connector >> >and a row of pins on the board. Does the board go inbetween the FDC and >> >drives, or does it replace the floppy controller entirely? Any special >> >cabling required, and can it run two drives? >> > >> >Thanks, >> >Jeff >> > >> > >> > >> > > > From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Jun 27 08:39:27 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: Gatorbox (was RE: APPLEVISION Monitor) Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A58@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com > > On Jun 26, 12:20, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > So... I had contemplated picking up one of the boxes I saw at Dayton, > > but was concerned about passwords. Does anyone on the list have a > > GatorBox? If so, what models? Docs? Know of any backdoors to get > > around missing passwords? > > I have a GatorBoxCS, and I have all the docs for it. It's not running at > the moment (temporary shortage of mains sockets) but IIRC you can reset it > to factory defaults. It might need a server to get a boot image from, > though. > > -- > Before I moved, and put mine away, I was about to re-flash the firmware, which clears all the asswords and settings. I'll try to dig up the info and files for doing that. Then I'll find a place on the net to put them, so other can download them. Note: you need a Mac with a serial port, and the console cable that came with them. I'll slap a meter on my console cable for the pinout, and post that too. :) IIRC, you should be able to just hook up a VT420 to the port after that, for twiddling the knobs. -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Jun 27 08:43:49 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: Gatorbox (was RE: APPLEVISION Monitor) Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A59@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Chris > > >And I know Chris > >has the version that goes into a Cabletron (?) network hub, as a module. > >Ever start that up Chris? > > Not yet. I have more toys kicking around that I WANT to play with, than I > have time TO play with. > - Well, what extras do you have? I may want to liberate some... :) > Although, since Passwords seems to be an issue, I > should really get it up and check it before it is too late to contact the > person we bought it from in case I need a password. > - There's a fiber module in that hub too, isn't there? I'll try to get the pinout of the console cable, so you can just zap the F/W if you have to. > > As for documentation, I found... > > I also have a photo copy of the manuals that came with my Gator (the > manuals went to Dave as part of a halfsies deal to get mine cheaper)... > - That's right. I almost forgot about all those books. I can flip through them for info, if people need. -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From frustum at pacbell.net Thu Jun 27 08:46:39 2002 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: ebay deals do happen Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020627064418.00aba180@postoffice.pacbell.net> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2034993396 Unfortunately, I logged on about 20 minutes too late. It is a 1960's wang programmable calculator with a printer, card reader, and an external core memory expansion module. The exact model isn't listed. Supposedly all in working order. The winning price: a low, low buy-it-now of $25.99. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Jun 27 08:58:34 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: OT: Been There, Screamed About That Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A5A@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk > > > Suggestions From Your Friends In > > Information Technologies Support > > [...] > > > 20) If the space bar on your keyboard doesn't work, blame it on the mail > > upgrade. Keyboards are actually very happy with half a pound of muffin > > crumbs and nail clippings in them. > > I'm reminded of one of my users who said her whole computer would "freak out" when she used her mouse. (BTW She's right handed...) So, once I get to her desk, everything is okay for me, and using the mouse (located to the right, and behind the keyboard.) was normal. So I ask her to show me. That's when I see her heavy, very loose & baggy sleeve, wool sweater push down just about every key on the numeric keypad. Especially the Enter key. When I pointed this out to her, she said "No it's not. It's the computer!" "Really? Okay. Well I'm gonna go downstairs and check the server for problems. In the meantime, watch your sleeve, just in case." And no, I didn't bother with the server. Just went to lunch. And never heard about that problem again... ......... > > 27) When you have a lock to pick on an old file cabinet, call IT > > Support. We love to hack. > > You mean there are computer people who _can't_ pick filing cabinet locks? > I am truely amazed.... > Yeah, a DeWalt cordless and the proper bit work wonders. :) -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From allain at panix.com Thu Jun 27 08:20:30 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Sony Data Discman References: <64242858@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: <00d801c21de3$1303e800$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I'm not sure I would even call this Semi-OT, All the literature I have says 1992/1993. > Question 1: > It doesn't display anything on its own screen, but if I > connect it to a TV with the special video cable, then Same here, in a DD-20. BTW the cable is pretty standard. > Question 2: > Is the EBXA/EBG format used by these things a > completely dead technology or what? The disks can be read in a PC, so they aren't totally closed off technology. Some of the software I have is marked 1995 so it made it a few years at least. I would like to know the format too but I haven't got all week to figure it out. Obviously some people out there in the world still know it and would probably share if we could just find them. John A. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Jun 27 08:04:18 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: Palladium and classic computing Message-ID: <200206271304.GAA07496@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Lest this degenerate into another anti-Microsoft panegyric, here's the MSNBC gushy bit on Palladium, Microsoft's new hardware certification and encryption device: http://www.msnbc.com/news/770511.asp?cp1=1 Here's the Gurus (Register USA) article that got me thinking: http://www.theregus.com/content/4/25378.html My question is this. It looks like, even by the bright soft sweetness in the MSNBC article, that everything that comes in and out, as well as gets executed and touched by, a Palladium-based system needs to be certified. If that's so, since many classic servers or systems may not have the oomph or capability to exchange data with a Palladium because they can't build the certificate, or if a licensing fee were needed from MS, what would this mean to us running old servers or OSes that won't speak in Microsoft's blessed credentials? Even E-mail or web pages served up might have to be signed. I'm not upgrading stockholm or my Solbourne just to speak in certificates. (The other issues, such as everything you run on a Palladium system having to be signed, even freeware at a potential cost to the author for a license key, as well as the death of open source, are probably OT but definitely scary.) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- A different taste in jokes is a great strain on the affections. -- G. Eliot From zippydoug at yahoo.com.au Thu Jun 27 08:48:32 2002 From: zippydoug at yahoo.com.au (=?iso-8859-1?q?Dougy=20M?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: Sharp PC-4600 - - - Help! Message-ID: <20020627134832.2186.qmail@web21203.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, I'm Doug. I've just spent a whole week trying to get a "Sharp PC-4600" up and running. It's been dead as a door nail the whole time I've had it, Untill today. The third time I pulled it a part, I discoverd what was wrong and have since corrected it. Yay! blue screen, disk drive lights and beeps! Now i'm stuck and need your help. After seting up the bios (set time, ports etc..), It asks for a "system disk". I've tryed start up disks 95 & ME. I doin't have windows 3.1 . In fact I doint know what operating system Sharp PC-4600 have, Since it does not have a HDD to store any thing. So what does it run on? Dos? If you have a System disk for a Sharp PC-4600, Could you copy whats on the disk and send it as an attach ment to me please!!! Many thanks in advance Doug. zippydoug@yahoo.com.au --------------------------------- SOLD.com.au- Find yourself a bargain! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020627/ba0fad9f/attachment.html From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jun 27 10:39:02 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: OT: Been There, Screamed About That In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A5A@yalepress3.unipre ss.yale.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020627103902.4caf0dbe@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:58 AM 6/27/02 -0400, you wrote: > >> > 27) When you have a lock to pick on an old file cabinet, call IT >> > Support. We love to hack. >> >> You mean there are computer people who _can't_ pick filing cabinet locks? >> I am truely amazed.... >> > Yeah, a DeWalt cordless and the proper bit work wonders. :) Man! that's cheating! I used to work at Martin Marietta and they moved everyone around frequently. When they did we got other desks, file drawers etc. The problem was theat we now had to change keys and had to keep up with new ones. I became very popular when my co-workers found out that I could pick the locks on all the desks and cabinents, remove the lock cylinders then re-install them in their new furniture so that they could keep their old keys. Interestingly, the facilities people didn't mind. It saved them the trouble of replacing lost keys and what not. Joe From passerm at umkc.edu Thu Jun 27 09:38:15 2002 From: passerm at umkc.edu (Passer, Michael W.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: Palladium and classic computing Message-ID: I've already decided that if the general public buys into it, and that the obvious dystopian implications of Palladium pan out, that my hobby use of computers can do quite well without the Internet as it would be shaped into a toll road with armed checkpoints. Perhaps this would spark a rennaisance of relayed messaging using modems a la Fido and UUCP to create an alternative network of computers that are controlled by their owners, rather than a cabal of "rights managers." This all assumes, of course, that to do so wouldn't be a felony. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jun 27 10:46:36 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: Palladium and classic computing In-Reply-To: <200206271304.GAA07496@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020627104636.4caf2488@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:04 AM 6/27/02 -0700, you wrote: >Lest this degenerate into another anti-Microsoft panegyric, here's the MSNBC >gushy bit on Palladium, Microsoft's new hardware certification and >encryption device: > >http://www.msnbc.com/news/770511.asp?cp1=1 > >Here's the Gurus (Register USA) article that got me thinking: > >http://www.theregus.com/content/4/25378.html ROFL!!!! This is too funny for words! 99% of the virus, trojans, spy ware, etc out there today are due to security holes and bugs in MicroSlouth's software and now we're supposed to believe that they have securtiy system? Yeah RIGHT! Joe From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Jun 27 09:56:24 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: OT: Been There, Screamed About That Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A5E@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Joe > > At 09:58 AM 6/27/02 -0400, you wrote: > > > >> > 27) When you have a lock to pick on an old file cabinet, call IT > >> > Support. We love to hack. > >> > >> You mean there are computer people who _can't_ pick filing cabinet > locks? > >> I am truely amazed.... > >> > > Yeah, a DeWalt cordless and the proper bit work wonders. :) > > Man! that's cheating! I used to work at Martin Marietta and they moved > everyone around frequently. When they did we got other desks, file drawers > etc. The problem was theat we now had to change keys and had to keep up > with new ones. I became very popular when my co-workers found out that I > could pick the locks on all the desks and cabinents, remove the lock > cylinders then re-install them in their new furniture so that they could > keep their old keys. Interestingly, the facilities people didn't mind. It > saved them the trouble of replacing lost keys and what not. > > Joe > Not really, if you can't get the filing cabinet open, and needs it's contents right now. And can't wait 2 weeks for facilities to do it... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Thu Jun 27 10:12:05 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: ebay deals do happen In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020627064418.00aba180@postoffice.pacbell.net> Message-ID: Well, I wasn't going to brag... but, in the same group of auctions as the recent $787.77 Altair processor card, I got 4 SCP 16K static RAM cards for $38. Less than $10 per card. I think it was a good deal. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jun 27 11:13:57 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: specs for HP transistor? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020627111357.10bf4e06@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I know this is mildly off topic but I've run out of places to look so I'll ask here. Recently I found a bunch of new HP microwave transitors in a pile of surplus scrap. I'd not sure what you call this package but the transistor is about 1/16" in size and it has four leads sticking out radially. Each lead is about 1/4" long. Their part number is TXVT-2101 and I can't find a number remotely like that on HP's or Agilent's websites. A Google search also failed to find anything. Each transistor is in an individual box and each is serial numbered and has the gain written on it. I think they date from about 1983 but I'm not positive about that. They're obviously expensive parts and I'd like to find out more about them. Can anyone help? Joe From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Thu Jun 27 10:15:14 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: Palladium and classic computing In-Reply-To: <200206271304.GAA07496@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: This Palladium stupidity won't fly. Remember how people howled when Intel put unique IDs into their processors? The heart of this thing is the same unique ID stuff, just on a separate chip. From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 27 10:27:09 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: ebay deals do happen In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020627064418.00aba180@postoffice.pacbell.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Jim Battle wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2034993396 > > Unfortunately, I logged on about 20 minutes too late. It is a 1960's wang > programmable calculator with a printer, card reader, and an external core > memory expansion module. The exact model isn't listed. Supposedly all in > working order. The winning price: a low, low buy-it-now of $25.99. Doh! That's probably the best deal I've ever seen on eBay. Oh well, who has time to go scanning through all the auctions? (hint: not me ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 27 10:35:32 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: ebay deals do happen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > Well, I wasn't going to brag... but, in the same group > of auctions as the recent $787.77 Altair processor card, > I got 4 SCP 16K static RAM cards for $38. Less than > $10 per card. I think it was a good deal. The reason that Altair processor card got that amount was not because of the card itself but because of the 8080 processor on it. Apparently, a few chip collectors creamed their pants over it because it was an Intel C8080, harboring some manner of significance to them. The buyer was "prepared to go well over $1000 for that chip". That chip is apparently listed as having a value of $1,800 on one collector's site. Gee, it's like the classic computer craze of 1999 all over again. The auction was: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2032858555 Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 27 10:36:05 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: Questions about Central Point Deluxe Option board In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Jun 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On a bet, once, I made a disk from which a usable copy could be made with > DISKCOPY on a stock 5150, but that the option board, with it's software, > could not copy. > Hint: it had problems with DISKCOPY when using Teac drives. Details, please. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Jun 27 10:47:15 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: OT: Been There, Screamed About That In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A5A@yalepress3.unipre ss.yale.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020627103125.00ae2ed8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that David Woyciesjes may have mentioned these words: > > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk >[snip] > > > 20) If the space bar on your keyboard doesn't work, blame it on the mail > > > upgrade. Keyboards are actually very happy with half a pound of muffin > > > crumbs and nail clippings in them. > > > I'm reminded of one of my users who said her whole computer would >"freak out" when she used her mouse. (BTW She's right handed...) So, once I >get to her desk, everything is okay for me, and using the mouse (located to >the right, and behind the keyboard.) was normal. > So I ask her to show me. That's when I see her heavy, very loose & >baggy sleeve, wool sweater push down just about every key on the numeric >keypad. Especially the Enter key. When I pointed this out to her, she said >"No it's not. It's the computer!" >"Really? Okay. Well I'm gonna go downstairs and check the server for >problems. In the meantime, watch your sleeve, just in case." > And no, I didn't bother with the server. Just went to lunch. And >never heard about that problem again... I have one better - when I worked as a tech (way back when Winders 3.1 was king...) one lady said she couldn't get her work done, because WordPerfect for Winders kept crashing. (There were more memory leaks in that program than a sieve...) She was not restarting winders every crash, so I told her in the short term if it crashed she needed to restart winders every time, that would help lower the hard crashes until I had a chance to troubleshoot the problem. She went ballistic. "How the hell do you expect me to get my work done if I have to keep restarting windows?" (understandable...) Two hours later, I made it to her cubicle, and after an hour (troubleshooting, testing, double-checking, and fixing), figured out that it was the driver for her 3-button Logitech mouse (great mice, crappy drivers) was causing WPW to crash so often, so I removed the driver, and everything seemed fine... ... an hour later, I got an even more ballistic call - "Where the hell did my double-click go?" "'Scuse me?" "My middle button quit working! Where'd my double-click go?" "I told you, that was the reason why your WP was crashing. You wanted that fixed, I fixed it. "Well, how the HELL do you expect me to get my work done without my double-click????" -- "You *might* try double-clicking on the left mouse button..." "I can't be bothered with doing THAT! Do you realize how much TIME having my double-click saves me! I just can't be BOTHERED to do that on my own!!! Get your a$$ back here and give me my double-click!!!" But ma'am, if I do that, your WP will start crashing again, and you'll need to restart your windows every time that happens. "I don't CARE! I just can't get my work done without my double-click!!!!!" It's times like those that make me wish I became a farmer instead... Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jun 27 11:49:11 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: Palladium and classic computing In-Reply-To: References: <200206271304.GAA07496@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020627114911.577f1c76@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:15 AM 6/27/02 -0400, Bill wrote: >This Palladium stupidity won't fly. Remember how people >howled when Intel put unique IDs into their processors? >The heart of this thing is the same unique ID stuff, just >on a separate chip. I hope you're right BUT the US government and a lot of companies are starting to really worry about security from "terrorists" and are looking for some way to secure their systems. Let's hope they don't blindly jump on the M$ Palladium bandwagon. IMO "foreign terrorists" are the least of our securtiy problems, SPAMMERs, Script kiddies, and the people that develope and use trojan SW, spyware, etc are a lot bigger threat than some rumored foreign terrorists. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Jun 27 11:53:40 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: ebay deals do happen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020627115340.496f04f6@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:35 AM 6/27/02 -0700, Sellam wrote: > >The reason that Altair processor card got that amount was not because of >the card itself but because of the 8080 processor on it. Apparently, a >few chip collectors creamed their pants over it because it was an Intel >C8080, harboring some manner of significance to them. > >The buyer was "prepared to go well over $1000 for that chip". That chip >is apparently listed as having a value of $1,800 on one collector's site. > >Gee, it's like the classic computer craze of 1999 all over again. Geez, I should pull the 8080 CPUs out of my Intel MDS 800s and hawk them. Plastic CPU would work just as well and I could use the money :-) Joe From classiccmp at mail.vintage-computer.com Thu Jun 27 10:46:57 2002 From: classiccmp at mail.vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: ebay deals do happen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Early last year I saw a mislabeled Altair 8800 go for a "Buy-it-now" price of under $200. I missed that auction by less than 5 minutes. That same day another 8800 went for $950 (again, Buy-it-now) which was still about half price at the time. Erik On Thu, 27 Jun 2002 08:27:09 -0700 (PDT) Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Jim Battle wrote: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2034993396 > > > > Unfortunately, I logged on about 20 minutes too late. > It is a 1960's wang > > programmable calculator with a printer, card reader, > and an external core > > memory expansion module. The exact model isn't listed. > Supposedly all in > > working order. The winning price: a low, low > buy-it-now of $25.99. > > Doh! That's probably the best deal I've ever seen on > eBay. Oh well, who > has time to go scanning through all the auctions? (hint: > not me ;) > > Sellam Ismail > Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * > From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Thu Jun 27 10:55:16 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: ebay deals do happen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > The reason that Altair processor card got that amount was not because of > the card itself but because of the 8080 processor on it. Apparently, a > few chip collectors creamed their pants over it because it was an Intel > C8080, harboring some manner of significance to them. > > The buyer was "prepared to go well over $1000 for that chip". That chip > is apparently listed as having a value of $1,800 on one collector's site. Are you in communication with the buyer? Do you think he would be willing to pull the chip and sell the card? I'll happily drop an 8080a in it and use it. It's really rather sad, kind of like buying a car for the spark plugs. Actually, maybe stupid is a better word than sad. From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Jun 27 10:45:07 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: ebay deals do happen In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020627064418.00aba180@postoffice.pacbell.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020627104407.03923de0@pc> At 08:27 AM 6/27/2002 -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: >> >> Unfortunately, I logged on about 20 minutes too late. It is a 1960's wang >> programmable calculator with a printer, card reader, and an external core >> memory expansion module. The exact model isn't listed. Supposedly all in >> working order. The winning price: a low, low buy-it-now of $25.99. > >Doh! That's probably the best deal I've ever seen on eBay. Oh well, who >has time to go scanning through all the auctions? (hint: not me ;) Wow, what a flashback. I think I used one of those in high school, but haven't seen one since. - John From classiccmp at mail.vintage-computer.com Thu Jun 27 11:01:27 2002 From: classiccmp at mail.vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: ebay deals do happen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "That chip is apparently listed as having a value of $1,800 on one collector's site." Wow. I had no idea that was the reason for the high bid. And to think, I've (theoretically) got $3,600 in two chips at home. . . Hmmmm. Erik On Thu, 27 Jun 2002 08:35:32 -0700 (PDT) Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > > > Well, I wasn't going to brag... but, in the same group > > of auctions as the recent $787.77 Altair processor > card, > > I got 4 SCP 16K static RAM cards for $38. Less than > > $10 per card. I think it was a good deal. > > The reason that Altair processor card got that amount was > not because of > the card itself but because of the 8080 processor on it. > Apparently, a > few chip collectors creamed their pants over it because > it was an Intel > C8080, harboring some manner of significance to them. > > The buyer was "prepared to go well over $1000 for that > chip". That chip > is apparently listed as having a value of $1,800 on one > collector's site. > > Gee, it's like the classic computer craze of 1999 all > over again. > > The auction was: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2032858555 > > Sellam Ismail > Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at > www.VintageTech.com * > > From CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL Thu Jun 27 11:13:20 2002 From: CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL (Corda Albert J DLVA) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: ebay deals do happen Message-ID: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16D06@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> Seems like I'll have to start looking through my ancient chip supply... I seem to remember a tube of the ceramic 8080 cpus somewhere... Of course, I might accidently _flood_ the market... :-) -al- -acorda@1bigred.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe [mailto:rigdonj@cfl.rr.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 7:54 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: ebay deals do happen > > > At 08:35 AM 6/27/02 -0700, Sellam wrote: > > > > >The reason that Altair processor card got that amount was > not because of > >the card itself but because of the 8080 processor on it. > Apparently, a > >few chip collectors creamed their pants over it because it > was an Intel > >C8080, harboring some manner of significance to them. > > > >The buyer was "prepared to go well over $1000 for that > chip". That chip > >is apparently listed as having a value of $1,800 on one > collector's site. > > > >Gee, it's like the classic computer craze of 1999 all over again. > > > Geez, I should pull the 8080 CPUs out of my Intel MDS 800s > and hawk them. Plastic CPU would work just as well and I > could use the money :-) > > Joe > From enrico.badella at softstar.it Thu Jun 27 11:24:47 2002 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: Palladium and classic computing References: <200206271304.GAA07496@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3D1B3C4F.98C53F00@softstar.it> Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > Lest this degenerate into another anti-Microsoft panegyric, here's the MSNBC > gushy bit on Palladium, Microsoft's new hardware certification and > encryption device: > > http://www.msnbc.com/news/770511.asp?cp1=1 > m$ behind security sound a bit like a joke. maybe they should start improving the security in their current products... or am I missing something?? e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From dpeschel at eskimo.com Thu Jun 27 11:28:02 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: paging Hans Pufal Message-ID: <20020627092802.A3641@eskimo.eskimo.com> Either private e-mail isn't geting through or you're more busy than I am. (I was wondering if you've dug up any more ZEBRA manuals.) Thanks, -- Derek From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Jun 27 11:30:34 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: Forth for PDP-11 Message-ID: <200206271630.JAA28960@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Hans B Pufal" > >Zane H. Healy wrote: >>>2 3 + . >>> >>>That's a total of 8 keys to press -- >>> >>> >>>You should get >>>5 OK >>>on the terminal (or something like that, with a 5 in it). >> >> >> Unfortunatly it results in: >> >> 2 3 + . .? > >The comment on the SOL page says it is a "non-standard" FORTH so perhaps >reading the docs might be advisable. > > -- hbp > > Hi It sounds like they replaced all of the '.' words. When people start out in Forth, they find it hard to get used to all of the shorthand words. Things like . @ ! , don't have any meaning until one uses them for a while. Since defining them is so easy, I've always thought the one could just alias them. Once one got used to the other quirks of the language, one could take advantage of the shorthand words. I still use Forth for most any of the quick stuff I want to do at home. It is probably the fast way to go from idea to working program that I've encountered. I've written assemblers, disassemblers, special editors, special file transfer and any mumber of utilies with it. It isn't as strong as perl for string handling but if you know what you want to do, the language itself doesn't get in the way. It is said that in Forth, "You don't write a program for your application in Forth, you modify Forth to be your application". Dwight From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Jun 27 12:12:15 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: ebay deals do happen Message-ID: <200206271712.KAA29005@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Erik S. Klein" > >"That chip is apparently listed as having a value of $1,800 >on one collector's site." > >Wow. I had no idea that was the reason for the high bid. >And to think, I've (theoretically) got $3,600 in two chips >at home. . . > >Hmmmm. > > Erik > Hi You realize that these need to be early C8080 and not C8080A or i8080 anything like that. I wonder if this might have something to do with the NASA buys? Dwight From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jun 27 12:13:46 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:43 2005 Subject: Questions about Central Point Deluxe Option board In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020627080806.47071036@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > I had a couple of Option cards and (I think) a manual that I gave > away when I cleaned up last year. I think I gave the stuff to Mike > Haas . You might be able to get him to dig the > manual out and check it. The Central Point Deluxe Option Board manual had about as much information in it as the manual for a generic mouse. There has now been MORE information about installing the board on this list than there was in the manual. Some versions of the manual mentioned the jumper (some didn't), but only said to use it if you had a Compaq, without explaining that it dealt with interchanging the input v output connectors. The rest of the installation section of the manual dealt in considerable detail with how to open the case of PCs! If you need that level of installation detail, then the option board will never work. I am a firm believer in finding and reading all information in any available documentation. ALL information from that manual has already been posted here. At this point, the manual is of less actual use than the original shipping box. From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Jun 27 12:20:47 2002 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: ebay deals do happen In-Reply-To: <200206271712.KAA29005@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: > I wonder if this might have something to do with > the NASA buys? > Dwight I think it is pure economics of a maturing collectable field. There is really nothing strange about some very rare chips fetching huge prices - the collectable (and I an not including the audio market) tube scene works just the same way. Some tubes, with only a tiny difference in contruction from the norm, are worth oodles. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From dwightk.elvey at amd.com Thu Jun 27 12:31:20 2002 From: dwightk.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: ebay deals do happen Message-ID: <200206271731.KAA29298@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "William Donzelli" > >> I wonder if this might have something to do with >> the NASA buys? >> Dwight > >I think it is pure economics of a maturing collectable field. There is >really nothing strange about some very rare chips fetching huge prices - >the collectable (and I an not including the audio market) tube scene >works just the same way. Some tubes, with only a tiny difference in >contruction from the norm, are worth oodles. > >William Donzelli >aw288@osfn.org > Ya, I know what you mean. I wish I had a box full of 450's and 2A3's. a couple hundred WD11's would be nice as well. ( for the rest of the group, that is tube talk ). Dwight From ghldbrd at ccp.com Thu Jun 27 12:33:31 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: NewTek Video Toasters for Amigas Message-ID: <3D1B4C6B.5CF2770B@ccp.com> Finally got them all checked, and they all work, so they are up for grabs here before going to e-greed. These are Toaster 2000 cards, for Amiga 2000's (won't fit in 3k or 4k without major hacking). Software and books not included, but I can get some copies. NewTek still has the copyright, see them first. Asking $150 per card, or equivalent in trading stock. I'm looking for: 4 gig or bigger Fast SCSI-2 drives, SCSI-3 (68 pin) would be okay if it has an adapter Other Amiga stuff, especially KEYBOARDS, accelerator cards, or other graphics cards. Complete Amigas except for A1000's. Amiga A1200 tower case with Zorro bus included I had several inquiries when I firt got these, you might drop me another e-mail off-list if you are interested or have something to trade. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jun 27 12:43:47 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: Questions about Central Point Deluxe Option board In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > On a bet, once, I made a disk from which a usable copy could be made with > > DISKCOPY on a stock 5150, but that the option board, with it's software, > > could not copy. > > Hint: it had problems with DISKCOPY when using Teac drives. On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Details, please. No guesses or ideas? Or is it a subject for which nobody but Sellam gives a shit? Very simply: The option board software is completely dependent on the index pulse. No index pulse; no read (crash with some versions!) Format a disk normally, then block the index hole (either by covering it, or removing the disk from its cover and reinstalling it with the cover reversed). Put a disk label on the backside, so that the user knows which way to put the disk in. Now the disk is still readable by DOS, and even DISKCOPY, but the option board software chokes. "But the user could just uncover the hole, or punch a new one (Using the XenoSoft (formerly Berkeley Microcomputer) Flip-Jig (tm))" So, ... modify a drive to index off of the spindle, instead of the index photocell. While you're at it, jumper it to not need a write protect notch. Format the disk (upside down) and use it normally. DOS and DISKCOPY are perfectly happy with it, even with a "normal" drive. (But most errors that could occur will be misreported as err code 128: "drive not ready".) But, unless the user makes a comparable mod to their drive, the option board software chokes. And, just to make sure that punching a hole doesn't work: use a hard sectored disk! When upside down, no index holes show. The modified drive will not see any, and will index off of the spindle. Stock drives will see no holes, which will not bother DOS (for READING), but will frustrate the option board software. If the user punches a hole, then instead of getting an index hole, he gets TEN index holes, which will also discombobulate the option board software (and DOS). But, ... TEAC drives (and probably some others) wouldn't work with the technique, since they look for drive up to speed by monitoring the index pulse. From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Jun 27 12:54:33 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: Palladium and classic computing In-Reply-To: References: <200206271304.GAA07496@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <32847.64.169.63.74.1025200473.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > This Palladium stupidity won't fly. Remember how people > howled when Intel put unique IDs into their processors? Yes, but now we're fighting terrorism. Polls show that more than 55% of US citizens surveyed now want to give up their civil liberties to be protected from terrorism. :-( This Palladium stuff is the result of something I've been ranting about for years, the Trusted Computing Platform Alliance. On the surface, "Trusted Computing" sounds good. Until you realize that the buyer of the computer isn't the party that will be able to trust the TPCA equipped machine. Others have pointed out that if this stuff all goes through, people who don't run Windows will lose access to most of the Internet (best case), or possibly have to create another parallel Internet (if it remains legal to do so). But another effect is that non-Palladium hardware will become very expensive. Early Palladium hardware might just involve add-on chips that can easily be disabled (if you don't need to interoperate with other Palladium systems), but the agenda is to build it into the processor, and Intel and AMD both seem willing to do it. Once that happens, you won't even be able to buy a microprocessor without Palladium and still get competitive performance. Non-Palladium processors will exist for embedded applications, but they'll be older, slower technology, just as processors targeting embedded applications generally are now. Fight the Future! performance to the latest Intel and AMD parts From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Jun 27 12:59:04 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: Palladium and classic computing In-Reply-To: <3D1B3C4F.98C53F00@softstar.it> References: <200206271304.GAA07496@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <3D1B3C4F.98C53F00@softstar.it> Message-ID: <32851.64.169.63.74.1025200744.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > m$ behind security sound a bit like a joke. maybe they should start > improving the security in their current products... or am I missing > something?? Yes, you are missing something. They don't want to improve security in "current products", because if they build it into new products instead, then they can make you pay for it. So instead of real fixes, they just patch a few widely known vulnerabilities. Of course, they wouldn't want to build too much security in all at once, because then they couldn't make you pay for it again the next year, and the next... From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Jun 27 13:01:52 2002 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: ebay deals do happen In-Reply-To: <200206271712.KAA29005@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200206271712.KAA29005@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <32854.64.169.63.74.1025200912.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > You realize that these need to be early C8080 and not > C8080A or i8080 anything like that. > I wonder if this might have something to do with > the NASA buys? Doubtful. The NASA auction buys are for components for non-critical ground-based systems only. They wouldn't have any problem using the 8080A vs. the 8080, or plastic rather than ceramic. From classiccmp at mail.vintage-computer.com Thu Jun 27 13:34:03 2002 From: classiccmp at mail.vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: ebay deals do happen In-Reply-To: <200206271712.KAA29005@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: According to the buyer the C8080 is ultra-rare (Rare as in 4 or 5 known to still exist) so the money he spent was very reasonable under the circumstances. I'll have to check mine again. I'm now pretty sure that at least one is an 8080A and probably both. Erik On Thu, 27 Jun 2002 10:12:15 -0700 (PDT) "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: > >From: "Erik S. Klein" > > > >"That chip is apparently listed as having a value of > $1,800 > >on one collector's site." > > > >Wow. I had no idea that was the reason for the high > bid. > >And to think, I've (theoretically) got $3,600 in two > chips > >at home. . . > > > >Hmmmm. > > > > Erik > > > > > Hi > You realize that these need to be early C8080 and not > C8080A or i8080 anything like that. > I wonder if this might have something to do with > the NASA buys? > Dwight > > From glinder at ews.uiuc.edu Thu Jun 27 14:11:23 2002 From: glinder at ews.uiuc.edu (Greg Linder) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: PS/2 Model 70p- More help? I fixed the power supply- In-Reply-To: <32851.64.169.63.74.1025200744.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: And I downloaded the reference disk, but the disk doesn't boot- I get a 135 error and a 601 error. Any ideas what causes these things to happen? Plasma displays are cool. Thanks, Greg Linder From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 27 14:24:32 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: Fw: Latest Finds in Houston In-Reply-To: <009d01c21d47$149ea520$a7000240@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <20020627192432.19895.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Keys wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Keys > To: cctech@classiccmp > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 1:22 PM > Subject: Latest Finds in Houston > > > 1. Several TI 99/4A cartridges... > Plato Interpreter Solid State PHM3122 We've hashed out Plato on this list a number of times. Is there enough stuff still around that there would be anything to talk to with that cartridge? > Return To Pirates Isle PHM 3189 Nice. Scott Adams was my favorite programmer when I was 13. I had "Adventureland" and "Pirate's Island" in BASIC for the PET - still have the original tape. It gave me a life-long love for Interactive Fiction. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From mythtech at mac.com Thu Jun 27 14:41:34 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: Fw: Latest Finds in Houston Message-ID: >> Return To Pirates Isle PHM 3189 > >Nice. Scott Adams was my favorite programmer when I was 13. I had >"Adventureland" and "Pirate's Island" in BASIC for the PET - still >have the original tape. It gave me a life-long love for Interactive >Fiction. Humm... I have a bunch of his text adventures for the Apple II. Something like 13 of them. I played them all, and won many. Spent many a rainy day sitting playing them. I was always impressed with how good and unique they each seemed to be. They even encouraged me to try writing my own text adventure (never finished it), and I suspect at some level, they are responsible for me getting into writing fiction myself (IIRC, my first play was an adaptation of one of his games) -chris From enrico.badella at softstar.it Thu Jun 27 14:52:36 2002 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: Palladium and classic computing References: <200206271304.GAA07496@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <32847.64.169.63.74.1025200473.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3D1B6D04.62B9E422@softstar.it> Eric Smith wrote: > [snip] > easily be disabled (if you don't need to interoperate with other > Palladium systems), but the agenda is to build it into the processor, > and Intel and AMD both seem willing to do it. Once that happens, > you won't even be able to buy a microprocessor without Palladium > and still get competitive performance. Non-Palladium processors > will exist for embedded applications, but they'll be older, slower > technology, just as processors targeting embedded applications By that time we might have a DEC 10 FPGA (or similar) e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 27 13:41:46 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: Forth for PDP-11 In-Reply-To: <200206270425.g5R4PEo28673@shell1.aracnet.com> from "Zane H. Healy" at Jun 26, 2 09:25:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2439 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020627/545389e4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 27 13:59:06 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: OT: Been There, Screamed About That In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467A5A@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> from "David Woyciesjes" at Jun 27, 2 09:58:34 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 870 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020627/bde30415/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 27 14:14:33 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: Forth for PDP-11 In-Reply-To: <200206271630.JAA28960@clulw009.amd.com> from "Dwight K. Elvey" at Jun 27, 2 09:30:34 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2744 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020627/e8d396e8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 27 14:30:50 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: Questions about Central Point Deluxe Option board In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jun 27, 2 10:13:46 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1154 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020627/c7bb4327/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jun 27 15:18:37 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: Questions about Central Point Deluxe Option board In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jun 27, 2 10:43:47 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1417 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020627/293c1e1c/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 27 15:26:19 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: ebay deals do happen In-Reply-To: <200206271712.KAA29005@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > You realize that these need to be early C8080 and not > C8080A or i8080 anything like that. > I wonder if this might have something to do with > the NASA buys? Nope. I think it's more akin to people paying $3,000+ for Altair's and IMSAI's back in 1999 when the computer collecting craze was still modeled after collecting Beanie Babies. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 27 15:31:27 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: Palladium and classic computing In-Reply-To: <32847.64.169.63.74.1025200473.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > > This Palladium stupidity won't fly. Remember how people > > howled when Intel put unique IDs into their processors? > > Yes, but now we're fighting terrorism. Polls show that more than > 55% of US citizens surveyed now want to give up their civil liberties > to be protected from terrorism. :-( I say we deport that 55% to Afghanistan and make them work in the poppy fields. The side benefit would be that those people will hopefully become too doped up to ever find their way back to the US and pollute it with their flawed ideals. > Others have pointed out that if this stuff all goes through, people > who don't run Windows will lose access to most of the Internet (best > case), or possibly have to create another parallel Internet (if it > remains legal to do so). But another effect is that non-Palladium > hardware will become very expensive. I am all for creating a parallel internet. It would be a chance to start over, learn from the mistakes of Internet 1, and improve it to the point that it makes people still on Internet 1 long to be on Son of Internet. Then everyone migrates to Son of Internet, Internet 1 dies, Palladium goes with it, Microsoft loses it's grip on the market, and everyone lives happily ever after. THE END Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 27 15:33:34 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: ebay deals do happen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Erik S. Klein wrote: > According to the buyer the C8080 is ultra-rare (Rare as in 4 > or 5 known to still exist) so the money he spent was very > reasonable under the circumstances. I guess that depends on how you define "reasonable" (I imagine it is as "reasonable" as paying $5,000+ for an IMSAI) but I don't want to open that Pandora's Egg Basket again. > I'll have to check mine again. I'm now pretty sure that at > least one is an 8080A and probably both. What does a C8080 look like anyway? If I can currently get $1,800 for it then I'll gladly sell it if I have one. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 27 15:35:55 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: Fw: Latest Finds in Houston In-Reply-To: <20020627192432.19895.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > Return To Pirates Isle PHM 3189 > > Nice. Scott Adams was my favorite programmer when I was 13. I had > "Adventureland" and "Pirate's Island" in BASIC for the PET - still > have the original tape. It gave me a life-long love for Interactive > Fiction. My favorite Scott Adams adventure is Ghost Town. I just loved the "feel" of the game, staying up late at night trying to solve it's riddles. Who still remembers the red herring "purple worm"? :) I'm going to have to revisit that some day. BTW, Scott Adams can be reached on the internet. Do a web search on "Adventure International" and "Scott Adams" and his website and e-mail address will turn up. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 27 15:39:40 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: Fw: Latest Finds in Houston In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Chris wrote: > They even encouraged me to try writing my own text adventure (never > finished it), and I suspect at some level, they are responsible for me > getting into writing fiction myself (IIRC, my first play was an > adaptation of one of his games) Really? That's pretty cool. That's novel: a play being inspired by a computer game :) What was it about? I wrote at least a couple adventure games. They were fun, and pretty easy once you got the hang of it. One was a demo running under CP/M for a California Computer Systems S-100 machine that I got for free in 1989. A bunch of them were liberated from a girl's school northeast of Sacramento by a teacher there. He gave them away in a computer interfacing class I was taking at a local community college. Me being the teenage geek hacker, I wrote a simple adventure game and passed it out (on 8" disk no less) to the others that got one of the machines. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mythtech at mac.com Thu Jun 27 16:14:38 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: Fw: Latest Finds in Houston Message-ID: >Really? That's pretty cool. That's novel: a play being inspired by a >computer game :) What was it about? Don't remember the name of the game, but it was the Dracula vampire's castle one (which I can't remember for sure was a Scott Adams adventure, but I believe it was). Basically, it was a play, with the basic plot line of the adventure, but with a few characters rather than just the one person as per the game. I was young, it was my first play, so there wasn't much creativity to coming up with my own story line. And my never finished text adventure was shockingly similar to the Mac graphical adventure Deja Vu. Of course, I started work on mine LONG before I knew about Deja Vu (long before I am sure it was even considered, since I started mine before the Mac came out). I remember getting Deja Vu and calling a friend that had worked on the story of mine with me. We were very surprised at how similar they were. -chris From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jun 27 16:47:39 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: Questions about Central Point Deluxe Option board In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > But, ... > > TEAC drives (and probably some others) wouldn't work with the technique, > > since they look for drive up to speed by monitoring the index pulse. > Why did this only affect DISKCOPY? Surely such a modified disk (no index > pulse) would cause problems with Teac drivs no matter what program you > were using to read it. You're absolutely right, of course. DISKCOPY was merely an example, since the premise of the bet was making a disk that DISKCOPY could make a working copy of, but that the option board could not. And, as you said, a no index diskette will cause the Teac drives to choke on any type of read attempt. The point was that the OEM 5150 drives (Tandon TM100-2), could read and write without index. Therefore, since the option board software needed index, it was possible to create a disk that could be accessed without the option board, but not with it. Presence of the option board did not interfere with the "normal" disk I/O. We used to have to block the index for reading and writing some disk formats on the PC. For example, some TRS-80 formats, and even some Kaypro formats, start their first sector too close to the index for comfortable reading with a 765. We were able to do them, by just putting a piece of opaque tape over the index hole. But with Teac drives (55B), blocking the index kept the drive from functioning. For those, we would just interrupt that wire in the cable, so that the index was seen by the drive, but not by the FDC. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From spc at conman.org Thu Jun 27 16:52:46 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: Forth for PDP-11 In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Jun 27, 2002 08:14:33 PM Message-ID: <200206272152.RAA03579@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Tony Duell once stated: > > The only language I like more than Forth for _some_ quick hacks is RPL > (Reverse Polish Lisp). It's Forth done to excess in that you can push > _anything_ onto the stack, not just integers (as in integers, reals, > complexes, vectors, matrices, strings, lists (of anything), even > _programs_!). Internally, of course, the stack is a stack of pointers to > objects in memory. At college I wrote my own Forth-like system (called VIth as Fifth was already taken 8-) that was pretty much like this. I even used it in one of my classes to implement a Unix shell where Unix commands could be pushed onto the stack (let's see, it took about two days to get it extended to be a fully programmable Unix shell, which was a *team* project for the class). The more I study both Forth and Lisp, the more I realize that both are quite similar (only that Lisp is a backwards Forth). I like the concepts of both but I'm still not satisfied with them (hard to state exactly why though). -spc (That as in my Forth phase ... now I'm in a Lisp phase ... 8-) From pcw at mesanet.com Thu Jun 27 17:14:30 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: Forth for PDP-11 In-Reply-To: <200206272152.RAA03579@conman.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > It was thus said that the Great Tony Duell once stated: > > > > The only language I like more than Forth for _some_ quick hacks is RPL > > (Reverse Polish Lisp). It's Forth done to excess in that you can push > > _anything_ onto the stack, not just integers (as in integers, reals, > > complexes, vectors, matrices, strings, lists (of anything), even > > _programs_!). Internally, of course, the stack is a stack of pointers to > > objects in memory. Postscript is a little like that (a Forth like language that allows pushing a wide variety of objects on the stack) Always thought STOIC was more consistant that Forth in its string handling (strings could be pushed on the stack like PostScript...) > > At college I wrote my own Forth-like system (called VIth as Fifth was > already taken 8-) that was pretty much like this. I even used it in one of > my classes to implement a Unix shell where Unix commands could be pushed > onto the stack (let's see, it took about two days to get it extended to be a > fully programmable Unix shell, which was a *team* project for the class). > > The more I study both Forth and Lisp, the more I realize that both are > quite similar (only that Lisp is a backwards Forth). I like the concepts of > both but I'm still not satisfied with them (hard to state exactly why > though). > > -spc (That as in my Forth phase ... now I'm in a Lisp phase ... 8-) > > Peter Wallace From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jun 27 17:20:51 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: OT: Been There, Screamed About That In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > Most office filing cabinents have simple wafer-tumbler locks which are > very easy to pick. I guess properly secure filing cabinets are made, but > the locks on all those I've seen wouldn't keep anyone out. File cabinet locks are partially standardized. Best makes cylinders (NOT IC) to retrofit them. Those are pin-tumbler with Best keyways, and are the same difficulty to pick as an ordinary commercial/industrial lock. There are even Medeco file cylinder locks! But on many file cabinets, the latch mechanism can be manipulated with a thin ruler on the right side of the drawers. Why have a hard to pick lock on something that can be easily bypassed? From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Jun 27 17:00:47 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: Palladium and classic computing In-Reply-To: "Bill Sudbrink"'s message of "Thu, 27 Jun 2002 11:15:14 -0400" References: Message-ID: <200206272200.g5RM0lrT015470@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Bill Sudbrink" wrote: > This Palladium stupidity won't fly. Remember how people > howled when Intel put unique IDs into their processors? Yep. And what happened as a result? -Frank McConnell From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Jun 27 18:00:35 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: What's a Convergence Technologies Series 186 Message-ID: Hi. This was my birthday present, and a nice one indeed. It's so cool I can't find it at all on Google. It's a little modular desktop, the CPU unit & drive unit (5.25 floppy and 10M hard drive) are separate units, latched together. Each has its own external PSU. The display looks like a proprietary serial terminal, powered off the main unit on the DB25 connector. The keyboard plugs into the display base. On front it says "Series 186" on the system module and "Hard Drive" on the drive unit. The stickers on bottom have Model numbers "CP-001/9 AA" and "HD-002 AD" respectively. Both tags say "For use with N-GEN systems" It powers up, runs through a batch job that I don't recognise - $JOB blah blah $RUN blah blah $RUN blah blah and ends up at a login prompt that I can't go around. It claims to be a "BaronData Transcription System" running (OS t1stndmp 9.7X) or OZ 4.1. If I can find a v3 or v4 DOS disk, should this guy boot from it? I want to preserve the OS on it, but I also want to log in. Doc From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Jun 27 18:36:17 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: Palladium and classic computing In-Reply-To: References: <32847.64.169.63.74.1025200473.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <20020627233617.GC265@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Sellam Ismail, from writings of Thu, Jun 27, 2002 at 01:31:27PM -0700: > On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Eric Smith wrote: > > Yes, but now we're fighting terrorism. Polls show that more than > > 55% of US citizens surveyed now want to give up their civil liberties > > to be protected from terrorism. :-( > > I say we deport that 55% to Afghanistan and make them work in the poppy > fields. The side benefit would be that those people will hopefully become > too doped up to ever find their way back to the US and pollute it with > their flawed ideals. Brilliant idea! In addition, that would be a good start towards solving the overpopulation problem. > I am all for creating a parallel internet. It would be a chance to start > over, learn from the mistakes of Internet 1, and improve it to the point > that it makes people still on Internet 1 long to be on Son of Internet. > Then everyone migrates to Son of Internet, Internet 1 dies, Palladium goes > with it, Microsoft loses it's grip on the market, and everyone lives > happily ever after. Actually, what would, most likely, happen is that once the Microsoft lusers begin to drool over Son of Internet, AOL will launch an invasion of the new internet, then Microsoft will discover it, then Microsoft will want to own it, the politicians will want to regulate it, and Microsoft will try to port something like Palladium to it, then an Internet 3 will have to be launched. It would be far simpler to just LART all of the people, worldwide, who like using Microsoft products, in addition to deporting the aforementioned 55% of the U.S. population willing to sacrifice liberty and freedom for more security. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Thu Jun 27 19:38:17 2002 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: NewTek Video Toasters for Amigas In-Reply-To: <3D1B4C6B.5CF2770B@ccp.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020627203724.00a2d2e0@n.ml.org> Anyone know Gary's email? I may have a Seagate 9GB SCSI2 5.25" Full Height for him. -John At 01:33 PM 6/27/02, you wrote: >Finally got them all checked, and they all work, so they are up for >grabs here before going to e-greed. > >These are Toaster 2000 cards, for Amiga 2000's (won't fit in 3k or 4k >without major hacking). Software and books not included, but I can get >some copies. NewTek still has the copyright, see them first. > >Asking $150 per card, or equivalent in trading stock. > >I'm looking for: > >4 gig or bigger Fast SCSI-2 drives, SCSI-3 (68 pin) would be okay if it >has an adapter > >Other Amiga stuff, especially KEYBOARDS, accelerator cards, or other >graphics cards. > >Complete Amigas except for A1000's. > >Amiga A1200 tower case with Zorro bus included > > >I had several inquiries when I firt got these, you might drop me another >e-mail off-list if you are interested or have something to trade. > >Gary Hildebrand >St. Joseph, MO ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jun 27 20:04:03 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: Forth for PDP-11 In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Jun 27, 2002 07:41:46 PM Message-ID: <200206280104.g5S143Z11728@shell1.aracnet.com> SUCCESS!!!! > > I just realized that there is documentation included, it's in the 'sol.sd', > > so I'm going to have to pour through it. I get the distinct impression that > > it's not working the way it should, so I need to see if I've installed it > > incorrectly (the first look through makes it look like it's installed > > correctly). > > The system is getting far enough to make me think it is installed > correctly (the interpretter loop is running, for example, it's reading a > command line, and at least handling some of it). Either there are a lot > of standard words not implemented in this system (In Forth you can have > whatever words you like...), or they've got non-standard names (if that's > the case, the author needs to get a clue!), or you've not assembled one > of the source files that would include them (if they're in the manual but > not in the dictionary, this is possible), but I would have thought > there'd be undefined symbols (if only for the dictionary linkage > pointers) if that was the case. I was right it wasn't up completely. I'd booted the minimal system, but I needed to compile the rest of it. See the following. sim> b rl0 RL BOOT - OK SOL-11 0.4 COPYRIGHT (C) 2001 NILS M HOLM 10 list LIST? 10 load 8072 BYTES YOU MAY NOW TYPE SAVE-SYSTEM TO SAVE THE NEWLY CREATED KERNEL. OK save-system OK save-buffers halt > HALT instruction, PC: 010516 (JMP @(R4)+) sim> b rl RL BOOT - OK SOL-11 0.4 COPYRIGHT (C) 2001 NILS M HOLM WELCOME TO SOL KERNEL SIZE IS 8072 BYTES MEMORY SIZE IS 57344 BYTES THESE MESSAGES ARE LOADED FROM BLOCK #9. TYPE 9 LIST TO VIEW OR EDIT THIS BLOCK. THIS DISK CONTAINS THE HLL PART OF THE SOL KERNEL. TYPE 9 51 INDEX FOR A TABLE OF CONTENTS. REMEMBER TO TYPE SAVE-BUFFERS BEFORE TURNING OFF YOUR MACHINE. SOL IS READY TO TAKE COMMANDS NOW. 5 3 + . 8 OK So, as you can see, I've now got it working under SIMH. One interesting thing I've found in the sol.sd document, is that the author (Nils M Holm) views the fact that it requires EIS as a bug. Unfortunatly all the drives that this supports are up in storage, as I don't really have room for any of them in the apartment, so for the time being I'll have to play around with this under SIMH. However, it's safe to say I do want to play with it, and eventually I'd like to get it up and running on real hardware. Hmmm, I wonder if I can convince my folks to let me temporarily clean out enough of thier garage to get /44 that's buried in there fired up.... :^) Zane From dpeschel at eskimo.com Thu Jun 27 20:14:31 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:44 2005 Subject: final brainteaser for the day In-Reply-To: <3D189EEB.4B476AFE@jetnet.ab.ca>; from bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca on Tue, Jun 25, 2002 at 10:48:43AM -0600 References: <3D189EEB.4B476AFE@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20020627181430.C2742@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Tue, Jun 25, 2002 at 10:48:43AM -0600, Ben Franchuk wrote: > "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > > On Tue, 25 Jun 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > > PC there was only 4 OS's that I know of when it first came out > > > CP/M,DOS,Pascal,Forth. Most real software started with the 286. > > > > Isn't that: > > "Most real software ENDED with the 286." ? > > I was thinking of unix style OS's. The 286 was the first intel cpu > with some sort of real memory managment. Perhaps Intel thought that memory management and protection in hardware was not necessary. Crossing from the ISIS thread... ISIS' programming tools are designed to organize your program into a code segment, a data segment, a stack segment, and a memory segment (everything in the first contiguous block of RAM that is not taken up by the code, data, or stack). Sounds like the 8086, except ISIS runs on the 8080 so the segmentation is done purely in software. As for protection: ISIS has a medium-level language (PL/M), a linker, and a relocating loader. Given those tools, I can see someone claiming that protection is the responsibility of the programmer. From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 27 20:36:11 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:46 2005 Subject: Fw: Latest Finds in Houston In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Chris wrote: > Don't remember the name of the game, but it was the Dracula vampire's > castle one (which I can't remember for sure was a Scott Adams adventure, > but I believe it was). Wasn't that Voodoo Castle or something? > Basically, it was a play, with the basic plot line of the adventure, but > with a few characters rather than just the one person as per the game. I > was young, it was my first play, so there wasn't much creativity to > coming up with my own story line. Still kinda cool. My first play was written in sixth grade. It was basically about a bunch of goofball students at school. I forget what the basic plot was, if any. It had nothing to do with computers. I wouldn't discover them until 7th grade ;) > And my never finished text adventure was shockingly similar to the Mac > graphical adventure Deja Vu. Of course, I started work on mine LONG > before I knew about Deja Vu (long before I am sure it was even > considered, since I started mine before the Mac came out). I remember > getting Deja Vu and calling a friend that had worked on the story of mine > with me. We were very surprised at how similar they were. My first adventure game was a fiasco. I never finished it. It was before I really knew how to program. Every new room you went to had a whole spate of "IF...THEN" statements based on every possible combination of actions that were possible up to arriving at that room. Basically, I hadn't learned to use variables yet. This kid Kenny at school, who was primal Geek and used to get his ass unmercifully kicked nearly everyday, taught me about variable usage, and how to apply it to adventure games (i.e. if you picked up the key, you would set a variable called "KEY" to 1...it was an enlightening concept). Ah, to be a young nerd again, discovering the mysteries of computing. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 27 20:40:33 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:46 2005 Subject: Palladium and classic computing In-Reply-To: <200206272200.g5RM0lrT015470@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: On 27 Jun 2002, Frank McConnell wrote: > "Bill Sudbrink" wrote: > > This Palladium stupidity won't fly. Remember how people > > howled when Intel put unique IDs into their processors? > > Yep. And what happened as a result? Don't tell me (since I didn't really keep up on it): they snuck them in there anyway after der fuehrer died down? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From sloboyko at yahoo.com Thu Jun 27 21:05:50 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:46 2005 Subject: ebay deals do happen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020628020550.24476.qmail@web11805.mail.yahoo.com> I THINK that the issue here is the C8080 vs the C8080A. The "A" version had some improved electrical drive characteristics. I sold a C8080B to someone for $200 and a C8080A to replace it in my display ( which I wanted anyway). Go figure! --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Erik S. Klein wrote: > > > According to the buyer the C8080 is ultra-rare > (Rare as in 4 > > or 5 known to still exist) so the money he spent > was very > > reasonable under the circumstances. > > I guess that depends on how you define "reasonable" > (I imagine it is as > "reasonable" as paying $5,000+ for an IMSAI) but I > don't want to open that > Pandora's Egg Basket again. > > > I'll have to check mine again. I'm now pretty > sure that at > > least one is an 8080A and probably both. > > What does a C8080 look like anyway? If I can > currently get $1,800 for it > then I'll gladly sell it if I have one. > > Sellam Ismail > Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia > at www.VintageTech.com * > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Thu Jun 27 21:10:09 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:46 2005 Subject: Palladium and classic computing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > "Bill Sudbrink" wrote: > > > This Palladium stupidity won't fly. Remember how people > > > howled when Intel put unique IDs into their processors? > > > > Yep. And what happened as a result? > > Don't tell me (since I didn't really keep up on it): they snuck them in > there anyway after der fuehrer died down? Here is an article on Wired: http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,35950,00.html Basically, the ID in the PIII is disabled by all standard BIOSs... AWARD, etc. (although it can be enabled by software) and, in any Pentium 1.5GHz or faster, there is no ID or supporting circuits in the silicon. From mythtech at mac.com Thu Jun 27 21:18:22 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:46 2005 Subject: Fw: Latest Finds in Houston Message-ID: >Wasn't that Voodoo Castle or something? Yes... thank you, I think that was it. -chris From mythtech at mac.com Thu Jun 27 21:29:24 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:46 2005 Subject: Fw: Latest Finds in Houston Message-ID: >>Wasn't that Voodoo Castle or something? >Yes... thank you, I think that was it. Ack... no, I was wrong (and thus you were wrong), it was "The Count". Sorry. (I realized this when I did a search for Scott Adams, and turned up his site. I then downloaded the classic games for the Palm Pilot, and noticed it included The Count, which immediately jumped to me as the correct game my play was based off) -chris From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jun 27 22:19:16 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:46 2005 Subject: Fw: Latest Finds in Houston References: Message-ID: <3D1BD5B4.3473BB7F@jetnet.ab.ca> Sellam Ismail wrote: > Ah, to be a young nerd again, discovering the mysteries of computing. The Adult Bishoujo Games lets you discover more things than computers ** Girls ** Something many young nerds have missed :) -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From foo at siconic.com Thu Jun 27 23:33:01 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:46 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Spider Message-ID: Check out this beauty: http://www.siconic.com/crap/Classic%20Computer%20Spider.jpg She's about 3 inches in diameter. Maybe not the biggest you've ever seen, but pretty much the biggest that's ever come out of my garage. I found her hiding in the corner of my garage amidst the last remaining old computer stuffs that are there. I caught her in a glass, where she spent the rest of the day until I could figure out what to do with her. I just let her go at the park down the street. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jun 27 23:57:51 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:46 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Spider References: Message-ID: <3D1BECCF.8040208@internet1.net> Sellam Ismail wrote: > Check out this beauty: > > http://www.siconic.com/crap/Classic%20Computer%20Spider.jpg > > She's about 3 inches in diameter. Maybe not the biggest you've ever seen, > but pretty much the biggest that's ever come out of my garage. > > I found her hiding in the corner of my garage amidst the last remaining > old computer stuffs that are there. I caught her in a glass, where she > spent the rest of the day until I could figure out what to do with her. > > I just let her go at the park down the street. I would have squished it..... looks like a really big brown recluse to me. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Jun 27 23:55:16 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:46 2005 Subject: Palladium and classic computing In-Reply-To: "Bill Sudbrink"'s message of "Thu, 27 Jun 2002 22:10:09 -0400" References: Message-ID: <200206280455.g5S4tQZ0022464@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Bill Sudbrink" wrote: > Basically, the ID in the PIII is disabled by all standard BIOSs... AWARD, > etc. (although it can be enabled by software) and, in any Pentium 1.5GHz or > faster, there is no ID or supporting circuits in the silicon. It's this "it can be enabled by software" bit that I was getting at. As I remember it, there was a great hue and cry from privacy advocates, Intel said "look, we'll make it disabled by default, and give people software they can use to turn it on", and the privacy advocates said "well, then, that's OK" and got quiet. Hello? If I can run some software to enable ID reporting, why wouldn't any closed-source software provider who really wants to know just have their software enable ID reporting, get the ID, then restore/disable ID reporting to cover its tracks? Anyway, it looks like something did happen: it got little enough use that Intel dropped the feature. Or...maybe they just see that something even better for this purpose is coming. -Frank McConnell From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Jun 27 23:56:27 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:46 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Spider References: Message-ID: <3D1BEC7B.63BE82EE@jetnet.ab.ca> Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Check out this beauty: > > http://www.siconic.com/crap/Classic%20Computer%20Spider.jpg > > She's about 3 inches in diameter. Maybe not the biggest you've ever seen, > but pretty much the biggest that's ever come out of my garage. > > I found her hiding in the corner of my garage amidst the last remaining > old computer stuffs that are there. I caught her in a glass, where she > spent the rest of the day until I could figure out what to do with her. > > I just let her go at the park down the street. I just got a email AD for -- Growth Hormone -- enlarge your body. Better check the spider has not ordered that ( with your credit card ) while you were making up your mind. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Jun 27 19:15:24 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:46 2005 Subject: Palladium and classic computing In-Reply-To: <200206280455.g5S4tQZ0022464@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: On 27 Jun 2002, Frank McConnell wrote: > "Bill Sudbrink" wrote: > > Basically, the ID in the PIII is disabled by all standard BIOSs... AWARD, > > etc. (although it can be enabled by software) and, in any Pentium 1.5GHz or > > faster, there is no ID or supporting circuits in the silicon. > > It's this "it can be enabled by software" bit that I was getting at. > As I remember it, there was a great hue and cry from privacy advocates, > Intel said "look, we'll make it disabled by default, and give people > software they can use to turn it on", and the privacy advocates said > "well, then, that's OK" and got quiet. Hello? If I can run some > software to enable ID reporting, why wouldn't any closed-source software > provider who really wants to know just have their software enable ID > reporting, get the ID, then restore/disable ID reporting to cover its > tracks? Actually, the processor starts with the ID enabled on reset, and then has to be disabled in software. Once disabled, you have to reset the processor to re-enable it. This means that to enable the bit, you have to be writing software that runs in ring 0 if you're using protected mode, somthing easy for the OS, but hard for applications to do, unless it's running under Winderz 3.1/95/98/ME. Still, I don't like what's possible. It made the decision to get an AMD Athlon all that much easier. -- Pat From mythtech at mac.com Fri Jun 28 00:11:29 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:46 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Spider Message-ID: >She's about 3 inches in diameter. Maybe not the biggest you've ever seen, >but pretty much the biggest that's ever come out of my garage. I get at least one that size a year in the fire stair well next to my office (where I store most of my good computer parts... it pays to be friends with the local fire inspector). Although the ones I get don't look like that. Rather they are all black, with thinner legs (not quite as menacing looking, mine look like over grown black house spiders). But it was funny when the exterminator couldn't get one to die last year. He sprayed and sprayed, and the thing just kept relocating. He claimed the stuff should have killed it on contact (and it seemed to kill all other insects on contact). After about 8 squirts he gave up and stepped on it. -chris From jhellige at EARTHLINK.NET Thu Jun 27 11:32:45 2002 From: jhellige at EARTHLINK.NET (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:46 2005 Subject: Palladium and classic computing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02Jun28.021348edt.119130@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >This Palladium stupidity won't fly. Remember how people >howled when Intel put unique IDs into their processors? >The heart of this thing is the same unique ID stuff, just >on a separate chip. There's plenty of other stupidity that people said wouldn't fly that we are now saddled with, including the DMCA. If the corporations behind the politicians want it bad enough, it'll happen. Plus at this point the average PC user doesn't really know or care about the pieces that make up the machine so there will be little resistance in that respect. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From blue at intrnet.net Thu Jun 27 19:00:48 2002 From: blue at intrnet.net (Kate Olin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:46 2005 Subject: DEC Vax 6000-310 Message-ID: <008201c21e39$9c679b40$0101a8c0@pavilion> I have a DEC Vax 6000-310 I have to sell. If interested, please email... blue@intrnet.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020627/920ccc4c/attachment.html From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Jun 27 21:41:21 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:46 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Two Great Finds Today Message-ID: <00db01c21e4d$4b1b9890$84000240@oemcomputer> Went to a auction today and got alot of stuff real cheap. Tow of the things that I really liked were a digital DECpc 333 portable and a Vectrex game console. I have yet to get into everything as it filled the van and had to leave stuff after running out of room to load it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020627/274b20d3/attachment.html From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Thu Jun 27 22:59:09 2002 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:46 2005 Subject: ebay deals do happen In-Reply-To: <20020628020550.24476.qmail@web11805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <02a201c21e58$27ecc960$6e7ba8c0@piii933> Well, one was a C8080A and one a C8080-8. The latter isn't as rare as a C8080, but it's still far less common than the C8080A. Apparently the -8 designation indicated the clock speed of the processor (in this case, 2 MHz). Erik -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Loboyko Steve Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 7:06 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: ebay deals do happen I THINK that the issue here is the C8080 vs the C8080A. The "A" version had some improved electrical drive characteristics. I sold a C8080B to someone for $200 and a C8080A to replace it in my display ( which I wanted anyway). Go figure! --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Erik S. Klein wrote: > > > According to the buyer the C8080 is ultra-rare > (Rare as in 4 > > or 5 known to still exist) so the money he spent > was very > > reasonable under the circumstances. > > I guess that depends on how you define "reasonable" > (I imagine it is as > "reasonable" as paying $5,000+ for an IMSAI) but I > don't want to open that > Pandora's Egg Basket again. > > > I'll have to check mine again. I'm now pretty > sure that at > > least one is an 8080A and probably both. > > What does a C8080 look like anyway? If I can > currently get $1,800 for it > then I'll gladly sell it if I have one. > > Sellam Ismail > Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia > at www.VintageTech.com * > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From Menzu at aol.com Fri Jun 28 02:12:29 2002 From: Menzu at aol.com (Menzu@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:46 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs/65816/65802 reference/programming books for trade/donation Message-ID: <84.2a7c59b9.2a4d665d@aol.com> Hello there, my name is Nathan, and I'm very interested in your books by Michael Fischer "65816/65802 ASSEMBLY LANGUAGE PROGRAMMING" of course being as if you haven't given it away or traded it away already. If not, please respond soon. Though I've got nothing really to give you (except the ultimate evil that is cash) we can hopefully work something out. Nathan Ivey (Menzu@aol.com) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020628/b2e39d4c/attachment.html From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Jun 27 23:13:43 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:46 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Book Deal in Houston Message-ID: <015901c21e5a$31e69480$84000240@oemcomputer> A new local bookstore here is selling brand new copies of Fire in the Valley second edition (soft cover) for $5. I purchased mine from Amazon awhile back along with the hardcover collector's edition with a CD. The lady said they may get the hardcover edition in and it would be about $10. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020627/cb83d439/attachment.html From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jun 28 03:48:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:46 2005 Subject: NGEN B26 - CTOS floppy? Was Convergence Technologies Series 186 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Since I'm replying to my own post, I get to top post too. The little goober is a Convergence Technologies NGEN B26 cluster node, except this one's fitted with a copy-protection serial dongle and a Barondata keyboard. Looks like court-reporting software. It's an 8MHz 80186, 512k memory, weird green-screen graphics. Still haven't gotten past the password prompt, but at least I know what it is now. There's a picture of a B26 without the disk module at: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Pines/4011/pictures/ch009.jpg Looks just like mine. The disk module is same size and shape, and latches on alongside. Is there a CTOS boot disk online anywhere? Doc On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > Hi. > This was my birthday present, and a nice one indeed. It's so cool I > can't find it at all on Google. It's a little modular desktop, the CPU > unit & drive unit (5.25 floppy and 10M hard drive) are separate units, > latched together. Each has its own external PSU. The display looks > like a proprietary serial terminal, powered off the main unit on the > DB25 connector. The keyboard plugs into the display base. > On front it says "Series 186" on the system module and "Hard Drive" on > the drive unit. The stickers on bottom have Model numbers "CP-001/9 AA" > and "HD-002 AD" respectively. Both tags say "For use with N-GEN > systems" > > It powers up, runs through a batch job that I don't recognise - > > $JOB blah blah > > $RUN blah blah > > $RUN blah blah > > and ends up at a login prompt that I can't go around. It claims to be a > "BaronData Transcription System" running (OS t1stndmp 9.7X) or OZ 4.1. > > If I can find a v3 or v4 DOS disk, should this guy boot from it? I > want to preserve the OS on it, but I also want to log in. > > Doc > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 28 03:49:32 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:46 2005 Subject: Scott Adam's Adventure Games (was Re: Fw: Latest Finds in Houston) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020628084932.21445.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > Return To Pirates Isle PHM 3189 > > > > Nice. Scott Adams was my favorite programmer when I was 13. I had > > "Adventureland" and "Pirate's Island" in BASIC for the PET - still > > have the original tape. It gave me a life-long love for Interactive > > Fiction. > > My favorite Scott Adams adventure is Ghost Town. I just loved the "feel" > of the game, staying up late at night trying to solve it's riddles. Me, too, but I did it on Compu$erve! (at 300 baud, with a VIC-MODEM, from a home-made terminal program in BASIC on my C-64 at $6/hour) It's one of my favorites, too. > Who still remembers the red herring "purple worm"? :) I remember something about it. I don't think it sidetracked me too badly. > BTW, Scott Adams can be reached on the internet. Do a web search on > "Adventure International" and "Scott Adams" and his website and e-mail > address will turn up. I did, quite a while back. I was a beta-tester on his VisualBasic "Return to Pirate's Island" a couple of years ago. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 28 03:49:46 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:46 2005 Subject: Scott Adams' Adventure Games (was Re: Fw: Latest Finds in Houston) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020628084946.98299.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > Return To Pirates Isle PHM 3189 > > > > Nice. Scott Adams was my favorite programmer when I was 13. I had > > "Adventureland" and "Pirate's Island" in BASIC for the PET - still > > have the original tape. It gave me a life-long love for Interactive > > Fiction. > > My favorite Scott Adams adventure is Ghost Town. I just loved the "feel" > of the game, staying up late at night trying to solve it's riddles. Me, too, but I did it on Compu$erve! (at 300 baud, with a VIC-MODEM, from a home-made terminal program in BASIC on my C-64 at $6/hour) It's one of my favorites, too. > Who still remembers the red herring "purple worm"? :) I remember something about it. I don't think it sidetracked me too badly. > BTW, Scott Adams can be reached on the internet. Do a web search on > "Adventure International" and "Scott Adams" and his website and e-mail > address will turn up. I did, quite a while back. I was a beta-tester on his VisualBasic "Return to Pirate's Island" a couple of years ago. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From rschaefe at gcfn.org Fri Jun 28 05:30:43 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: NGEN B26 - CTOS floppy? Was Convergence Technologies Series 186 References: Message-ID: <006501c21e8e$dcd2ff80$7e469280@y5f3q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc Shipley" To: "Classic Computers" Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 04:48 AM Subject: NGEN B26 - CTOS floppy? Was Convergence Technologies Series 186 > Since I'm replying to my own post, I get to top post too. The little > goober is a Convergence Technologies NGEN B26 cluster node, except this > one's fitted with a copy-protection serial dongle and a Barondata > keyboard. Looks like court-reporting software. It's an 8MHz 80186, > 512k memory, weird green-screen graphics. Still haven't gotten past the > password prompt, but at least I know what it is now. There's a picture > of a B26 without the disk module at: Add Burroughs to the search. There's even a spamnet-news group for BTOS/CTOS. I was subscribed for a while, most of hte traffic dealt with the later hardware, but the B25 & B26 stuff was mentioned from time to time. I had the CPU box alone, but never managed to find anything else so I donated it to Merle. Bob From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jun 28 06:49:15 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Scott Adam's Adventure Games (was Re: Fw: Latest Finds in Houston) In-Reply-To: <20020628084932.21445.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > BTW, Scott Adams can be reached on the internet. Do a web search on > "Adventure International" and "Scott Adams" and his website and e-mail > address will turn up. But the most amazing puzzle that he EVER released, that was REALLY a challenge to try to guess the commands, was: VTOS 4.0 'course he only marketed it; the program was by Randy Cook, and the documentation was "coming soon". -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From davebarnes at adelphia.net Fri Jun 28 08:08:59 2002 From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Spider References: <3D1BECCF.8040208@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3D1C5FEB.F39E213E@adelphia.net> and aren't brown recluse spiders VERY dangerous? Chad Fernandez wrote: > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Check out this beauty: > > > > http://www.siconic.com/crap/Classic%20Computer%20Spider.jpg > > > > She's about 3 inches in diameter. Maybe not the biggest you've ever seen, > > but pretty much the biggest that's ever come out of my garage. > > > > I found her hiding in the corner of my garage amidst the last remaining > > old computer stuffs that are there. I caught her in a glass, where she > > spent the rest of the day until I could figure out what to do with her. > > > > I just let her go at the park down the street. > > I would have squished it..... looks like a really big brown recluse to me. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA From GOOI at oce.nl Fri Jun 28 07:29:25 2002 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Spider Message-ID: <30DBA2DACC0CD611B3E60008C7092D8F2F8E94@hqvenloexch.oce.nl> Yes, they are! I saw a program on spiders a few eeks ago on the Discovery Channel. They mentioned the brown recluse spider, and she is indeed quite dangerous. You hardly notice the bite of this spider, but after a few days you become sick/ill. If not treated well there are serious problems for you. I do not remember if the "problem" is fatal ... - Henk. > -----Original Message----- > From: David Barnes [mailto:davebarnes@adelphia.net] > Sent: vrijdag 28 juni 2002 15:09 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Classic Computer Spider > > > and aren't brown recluse spiders VERY dangerous? > > > > > Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > Check out this beauty: > > > > > > http://www.siconic.com/crap/Classic%20Computer%20Spider.jpg > > > > > > She's about 3 inches in diameter. Maybe not the biggest > you've ever seen, > > > but pretty much the biggest that's ever come out of my garage. > > > > > > I found her hiding in the corner of my garage amidst the > last remaining > > > old computer stuffs that are there. I caught her in a > glass, where she > > > spent the rest of the day until I could figure out what > to do with her. > > > > > > I just let her go at the park down the street. > > > > I would have squished it..... looks like a really big brown > recluse to me. > > > > Chad Fernandez > > Michigan, USA From tarsi at binhost.com Wed Jun 26 07:57:54 2002 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Spider In-Reply-To: <3D1C5FEB.F39E213E@adelphia.net> References: <3D1BECCF.8040208@internet1.net> <3D1C5FEB.F39E213E@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <02062607575404.00704@simon> Very. Their venom causes the necrosis (destroying and decaying) of living tissue, so you end up with a bite that doesn't heal and actually grows larger. Without proper treatment it can get quite large and nasty and cause other problems such as septicemia (poisoning of the blood). Tarsi 210 On Friday 28 June 2002 08:08, you wrote: > and aren't brown recluse spiders VERY dangerous? ------------------------------------------------- You'll often find me at The Forever Beyond, an all-ages chat room. Visit us at http://www.foreverbeyond.org My homepage is at http://tarsi.binhost.com Need Internet hosting? Try binHOST! http://www.binhost.com ------------------------------------------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jun 28 08:10:13 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Spider In-Reply-To: <30DBA2DACC0CD611B3E60008C7092D8F2F8E94@hqvenloexch.oce.nl> from Gooijen H at "Jun 28, 2 02:29:25 pm" Message-ID: <200206281310.GAA09380@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Yes, they are! > I saw a program on spiders a few eeks ago on the Discovery Channel. > They mentioned the brown recluse spider, and she is indeed quite > dangerous. You hardly notice the bite of this spider, but after a > few days you become sick/ill. If not treated well there are serious > problems for you. I do not remember if the "problem" is fatal ... It can be, if the bite affects a particularly vital area. The major problem with recluse venom is necrosis. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- In memory of John Banner --------------------------------------------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jun 28 08:18:07 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Spider In-Reply-To: from Chris at "Jun 28, 2 01:11:29 am" Message-ID: <200206281318.GAA09456@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > But it was funny when the exterminator couldn't get one to die last year. > He sprayed and sprayed, and the thing just kept relocating. He claimed > the stuff should have killed it on contact (and it seemed to kill all > other insects on contact). After about 8 squirts he gave up and stepped > on it. Didn't that scene appear in "Arachnophobia" with John Goodman? :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- boom boom boom Nothing outlasts the Energizer. It keeps going and going ... From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Jun 28 08:13:34 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Spider In-Reply-To: <200206281318.GAA09456@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Jun 28, 02 06:18:07 am Message-ID: <200206281313.JAA03803@wordstock.com> And thusly Cameron Kaiser spake: > > > But it was funny when the exterminator couldn't get one to die last year. > > He sprayed and sprayed, and the thing just kept relocating. He claimed > > the stuff should have killed it on contact (and it seemed to kill all > > other insects on contact). After about 8 squirts he gave up and stepped > > on it. > > Didn't that scene appear in "Arachnophobia" with John Goodman? :-) > Yes! :) The spider was swimming in the spidercide with little effort.... Bryan From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jun 28 08:23:48 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Spider In-Reply-To: <3D1BECCF.8040208@internet1.net> from Chad Fernandez at "Jun 28, 2 00:57:51 am" Message-ID: <200206281323.GAA10348@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Check out this beauty: > > > > http://www.siconic.com/crap/Classic%20Computer%20Spider.jpg > > > > She's about 3 inches in diameter. Maybe not the biggest you've ever seen, > > but pretty much the biggest that's ever come out of my garage. > > > > I found her hiding in the corner of my garage amidst the last remaining > > old computer stuffs that are there. I caught her in a glass, where she > > spent the rest of the day until I could figure out what to do with her. > > > > I just let her go at the park down the street. > I would have squished it..... looks like a really big brown recluse to me. It's not. It looks like a wolf spider, almost, although they tend to be hairier and more grey. A brown recluse has an abdomen much larger than its thorax (this one the thorax is slightly larger), it tends to be a more perverse brown-grey-green, and there's no fiddle marking. I mean, the fiddle marking really does look like a fiddle, at least from the ones I remember seeing in camp showers as a kid (shiver -- that'll put some paranoia in you). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism. ----------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jun 28 08:27:23 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Spider In-Reply-To: <200206281323.GAA10348@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from Cameron Kaiser at "Jun 28, 2 06:23:48 am" Message-ID: <200206281327.GAA10478@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > I would have squished it..... looks like a really big brown recluse to me. > > It's not. It looks like a wolf spider, almost, although they tend to be > hairier and more grey. A brown recluse has an abdomen much larger than its > thorax (this one the thorax is slightly larger), it tends to be a more > perverse brown-grey-green, and there's no fiddle marking. I mean, the fiddle > marking really does look like a fiddle, at least from the ones I remember > seeing in camp showers as a kid (shiver -- that'll put some paranoia in you). Er, I mean, brown recluses have fiddle markings and this one doesn't (just that blackish-grey diamond mark). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The pace of life isn't the problem. It's the sudden stop at the end. ------- From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Jun 28 08:43:40 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Sony Data Discman In-Reply-To: <200206262239.g5QMdqu13149@shell1.aracnet.com> References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020628083834.039eec38@pc> At 03:39 PM 6/26/2002 -0700, Zane H. Healy wrote: >I can't help, but I've seen almost the exact same problem with the original >Nintendo Gameboy's. I've had two of the originals, and in both cases, I put >them up without batteries, and when I went to use them the next time, >sizeable portions of the screen wouldn't display anything (entire vertical >lines). I think many LCD devices of classic vintage will see more and more of this as time goes by. I believe it is due to deterioration of the thin conductive connections along the edge of the LDC. I've got it (a horizontal white line) on a circa '88 Sony GV-8 Video Walkman, and Google Groups revealed other people with the same problem. A more disturbing problem for me is the fouled-up nature of a number of years of video tapes I took of my young kids with a circa 1991 Sony 8mm video camera. It's another common problem that the surface-mount caps deteriorate, along with tape guides that come unscrewed and drift. I'd record, even check the most recent video in the viewfinder, but years later figured out that it was drifting and not recording with sync that any other player can handle. I'm patiently waiting for a method to redigitize or resync these precious tapes. - John From kevin at mpcf.com Fri Jun 28 09:58:24 2002 From: kevin at mpcf.com (Kevin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Spider In-Reply-To: <3D1BECCF.8040208@internet1.net> References: <3D1BECCF.8040208@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20020628095824.18cd8e74.kevin@mpcf.com> That's not a brown recluse. It's a common house spider (sorry i do not remember the scientific name), EXTREMELY harmless :) We had them by the millions in Texas and i have seen plenty of them down here in Miami. A lady was bitten by a brown recluse down here this week and it actually made the news! You would think that a place like Miami would have better news stories available than that, but the level of ignorance and fear of animals people seem to have in this part of the country is amazing. Last year a guy found a small (less than a foot) grass snake in his Christmas tree, and that made the news as well. He actually called animal control..hahaha. When i saw that i died laughing. All i could think about was my 80 year old grandmother killing 4 and 5 foot rattlesnakes in her garden with a hoe and this 26 year old guy calls animal control for a grass snake. Sorry for going off topic... /kevin On Fri, 28 Jun 2002 00:57:51 -0400 Chad Fernandez wrote: > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Check out this beauty: > > > > http://www.siconic.com/crap/Classic%20Computer%20Spider.jpg > > > > She's about 3 inches in diameter. Maybe not the > > biggest you've ever seen, but pretty much the > > biggest that's ever come out of my garage. > > > > I found her hiding in the corner of my garage > > amidst the last remaining old computer stuffs that > > are there. I caught her in a glass, where she > > spent the rest of the day until I could figure out > > what to do with her. > > > > I just let her go at the park down the street. > > > I would have squished it..... looks like a really big > brown recluse to me. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Fri Jun 28 10:07:52 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Spider References: <3D1BECCF.8040208@internet1.net> <3D1C5FEB.F39E213E@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <3D1C7BC8.4050803@internet1.net> David Barnes wrote: > and aren't brown recluse spiders VERY dangerous? Well not like the Sidney Funnel Web, but yes they are dangerous. I'm glad we don't have them here in Michigan..... Once in a while some will be found, but in general it is too cold. Ther was a big nest in a factory a few(?) years ago. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From allain at panix.com Fri Jun 28 10:05:23 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Spider References: <3D1BECCF.8040208@internet1.net> <20020628095824.18cd8e74.kevin@mpcf.com> Message-ID: <000f01c21eb5$3af45480$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Sorry for going off topic... It's OK, we'll blame Sellam for this one. John A. From rhudson at cnonline.net Fri Jun 28 10:27:40 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Spider In-Reply-To: <30DBA2DACC0CD611B3E60008C7092D8F2F8E94@hqvenloexch.oce.nl> References: <30DBA2DACC0CD611B3E60008C7092D8F2F8E94@hqvenloexch.oce.nl> Message-ID: <200206280827.40944.rhudson@cnonline.net> On Friday 28 June 2002 05:29 am, Gooijen H wrote: > a few eeks ago Hmmm typo or subject-related-pun From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 28 10:24:43 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Spider In-Reply-To: <3D1BECCF.8040208@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Jun 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > I would have squished it..... looks like a really big brown recluse to me. That would not be right. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 28 10:27:34 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Spider In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Jun 2002, Chris wrote: > But it was funny when the exterminator couldn't get one to die last year. > He sprayed and sprayed, and the thing just kept relocating. He claimed > the stuff should have killed it on contact (and it seemed to kill all > other insects on contact). After about 8 squirts he gave up and stepped > on it. That spider should have been captured and then sent to a lab to test for chemical immunity. It may have been a new breed of super spider poised to take over the world! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 28 10:29:27 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Scott Adam's Adventure Games (was Re: Fw: Latest Finds in Houston) In-Reply-To: <20020628084932.21445.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Jun 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > Who still remembers the red herring "purple worm"? :) > > I remember something about it. I don't think it sidetracked me too badly. I think if you ate it you died. Otherwise, it didn't have any purpose. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 28 10:35:54 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Spider In-Reply-To: <3D1C5FEB.F39E213E@adelphia.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Jun 2002, David Barnes wrote: > and aren't brown recluse spiders VERY dangerous? Yes, but from what I've read, this was most likely not a Brown Recluse. The description doesn't match: only two sets of eyes, and no "fiddle" markings on the body. Also, they are found primarily in the midwest of the US. I don't kill any creature unless it is presenting an imminent danger. This was just a big, harmless, hairy spider that wanted to go about it's business eating stupid bugs. And from the looks of it, this one spider was probably keeping my garage free of stupid bugs single-handedly. Now if I could only have trained her to go after ants I would have kept her around :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Jun 28 10:36:56 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Space Quest (was Re: Scott Adam's Adventure Games) In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jun 28, 02 08:29:27 am Message-ID: <200206281536.LAA22412@wordstock.com> And thusly Sellam Ismail spake: > > On Fri, 28 Jun 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > Who still remembers the red herring "purple worm"? :) > > > > I remember something about it. I don't think it sidetracked me too badly. > > I think if you ate it you died. Otherwise, it didn't have any purpose. > Hey... Wasn't there a purple snake in one of the Space Quest games? If you didn't do the screen correctly you would be eaten by the snake. They would then show a bag with with the words "Snake Chow" on it surrounded with red and white checkers, which happens to be Ralston Purina's loge... ;-) Cheers, Bryan From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 28 10:39:51 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Spider In-Reply-To: <000f01c21eb5$3af45480$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Jun 2002, John Allain wrote: > > Sorry for going off topic... > > It's OK, we'll blame Sellam for this one. Hey, I tried to justify its appropriateness by tying it to classic computers. Isn't that the rule of thumb around here? :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 28 10:42:38 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: OT: help request, ereg function in PHP Message-ID: Any PHP g00r00s out there able to help with the ereg function in PHP? No amount of searching the online docs or the web turns up a similar problem as I am having (not properly parsing whitespace). It almost seems like there's a problem with my PHP server code. Please respond off-list to . Thanks! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jun 28 11:04:11 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Spiders and Snakes; Was Re: Classic Computer Spider In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Jun 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 28 Jun 2002, David Barnes wrote: > Now if I could only have trained her to go after ants I would have kept > her around :) Amen. Here in Texas, the fire ant invasion is killing off all manner of native life. When I was a kid in West Texas, horned toads were literally as common as cockroaches. Unfortunately, their primary delicacy is ants, and they'll sit by a mound or an ant trail and pick the ants off. You can imagine what happens when a horny toad does that on a fire ant mound. Fire ants will swarm an intruder, and are venomous enough to make even a human adult ill, if there are enough bites. A horned toad is easy pickings. Horned toads are on the endangered species list now, and nobody I know has even seen one in ten years. As far as I know or have been able to find out, there aren't any "civilization" related factors in their impending extinction. Just those blasted ants. Doc From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jun 28 11:56:46 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Spiders and Snakes; Was Re: Classic Computer Spider In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02Jun28.130000edt.119049@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> > Horned toads are on the endangered species list now, and nobody I know >has even seen one in ten years. As far as I know or have been able to >find out, there aren't any "civilization" related factors in their >impending extinction. Just those blasted ants. Wow...I didn't know that. I remember visits to Texas as a kid and seeing the horned toads all over the place. That sucks... Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jun 28 12:07:48 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Spiders and Snakes; Was Re: Classic Computer Spider In-Reply-To: <02Jun28.130000edt.119049@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Jun 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > Horned toads are on the endangered species list now, and nobody I know > >has even seen one in ten years. As far as I know or have been able to > >find out, there aren't any "civilization" related factors in their > >impending extinction. Just those blasted ants. > > Wow...I didn't know that. I remember visits to Texas as a kid > and seeing the horned toads all over the place. That sucks... Yup. All else aside, it means I can't wear my favorite Western belt buckle. Doc, in a tasteless mood today. From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Jun 28 07:53:43 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: [OT?] IBM PS 850 RAM Message-ID: I'm fairly certain this doesn't meet the 10-year rule, but since I don't have any other good ideas of where to ask, I'll ask here. I'm trying to find a source for some more memory for my IBM PC Power Station 850, and was wondering if anyone has some available or new of a cheap source. I'd prefer 16M or 32M sticks, but could deal with 8M sticks, I just want to have a bit more than 32M of memory to try and run on. I've found that kingston lists 16MB sticks for $39 or 32MB for $50, but I'd prefer not to spend >$1/meg for it if possible. Used is ok, new is better if possible, but I'm sure much more expensive. Worst case, there's 4 sticks of 8M up on ebay for a decent price I might bid on, but I'd really prefer bigger than 8MB sticks. -- Pat From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Jun 28 12:53:05 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: AT&T UNIX goodness Message-ID: <20020628175305.GN25967@mrbill.net> Cleaned out the closet yesterday (so the HVAC guys could get into the attic). Found the following: AT&T 3B2 Computer - UNIX System V Release 3 User's and System Administrator's Reference Manual (in hardbound slipcase) and (I thought I'd lost it - sold it to a list member a year or so ago, then misplaced the disks and refunded their money) AT&T UNIX System V/386 Release 3.2 (complete distribution on 1.44M floppies, with development kit as well - these were new in shrinkwrap when I got them) Anybody have a need for any of the above? Will trade for other nifty things. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From RCini at congressfinancial.com Fri Jun 28 12:40:17 2002 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Brown Recluse spider Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5126BF2@MAIL10> For those arachnophobes, check out this link: http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/2000/2061.html Sam's picture doesn't look like a brown recluse. Rich From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Jun 28 08:07:20 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Question about DECservers Message-ID: I seem to remember someone saying that the DECservers are basically a Q-Bus PDP-11 system. Is this correct, or am I thinking of something else? Also, does anyone know what they're based off of and if it's possible to make them boot a 'conventional' os by changing their bootroms? Thanks -- Pat From fernande at internet1.net Fri Jun 28 13:03:36 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Brown Recluse spider References: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5126BF2@MAIL10> Message-ID: <3D1CA4F8.4050100@internet1.net> I've researched the net for Brown Recluse before. You really have to look at a lot of pictures, and read many descriptions. Alot of the pictures on web sites don't even look like the same. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Cini, Richard wrote: > For those arachnophobes, check out this link: > > http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/2000/2061.html > > Sam's picture doesn't look like a brown recluse. > > Rich > > From kevin at mpcf.com Fri Jun 28 14:13:54 2002 From: kevin at mpcf.com (Kevin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Space Quest (was Re: Scott Adam's Adventure Games) In-Reply-To: <200206281536.LAA22412@wordstock.com> References: <200206281536.LAA22412@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <20020628141354.1c1da59c.kevin@mpcf.com> Space Quest! My favorite series of games aside from SunDog. I remember what you are describing but i do not remember which one it was in, I or II? VeKTeReX On Fri, 28 Jun 2002 11:36:56 -0400 (edt) Bryan Pope wrote: > And thusly Sellam Ismail spake: > > > > On Fri, 28 Jun 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > > > Who still remembers the red herring "purple > > > > worm"? :) > > > > > > I remember something about it. I don't think it > > > sidetracked me too badly. > > > > I think if you ate it you died. Otherwise, it > > didn't have any purpose. > > > > Hey... Wasn't there a purple snake in one of the > Space Quest games? If you didn't do the screen > correctly you would be eaten by the snake. They > would then show a bag with with the words "Snake > Chow" on it surrounded with red and white checkers, > which happens to be Ralston Purina's loge... ;-) > > Cheers, > > Bryan From tarsi at binhost.com Wed Jun 26 13:11:27 2002 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: HP 9000/300 (And some Help Needed) Message-ID: <0206261311270B.00704@simon> Recent Acquire: HP 9000/300 in a rolling case, quite sexy. Below is a listing of cards and disks with it. I need some help identifying the cards marked with a star (*). If anyone has info on any of them, please let me know. I've tried to write down as many numbers on the cards as I could find to help in the identification. If anyone has docs for any of the below, please contact me. As well, I'm looking for an HP-HIL keyboard. HP 9000/300 in two cases that link together through a many-pinned connector. TOP CASE *Card 1 HP4BL REV C 49A Has an Intel 80286-8mHz CPU on it Card 2 HP 98658A SCSI Controller Card 3 Blank Slot Card 4 HP System Interface 88809L HP-HIL Keyboard Port *Subcard: 81712L A-2809-40 2827-2053 BOTTOM CASE Card 1 DI0-II 16M Memory Card 98264B *Card 2 CPU Card - Motorola M68030 A-2903-40 2922-6135 Card 3 98264-55520 16MB Memory Card Card 4 98550A/A1416A "Catseye" Framebuffer card 1280x1024 60Hz 8bit color Card Disk #1 HP 7958A Serial 2750A15146 SCSI ID: 0 Option: STD Disk: Micropolis ESDI 170MB Disk #2 HP 7945A Serial 2700A01117 X421 Address 0010 Option: STD/888 Disk: Vertex Peripherals Model V170 ESDI 170MB Display: Starts Up With: P2 Self-Test: P2 Display Results: U0 -- ------------------------------------------------- You'll often find me at The Forever Beyond, an all-ages chat room. Visit us at http://www.foreverbeyond.org My homepage is at http://tarsi.binhost.com Need Internet hosting? Try binHOST! http://www.binhost.com ------------------------------------------------- From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jun 28 13:17:59 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Question about DECservers In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Finnegan" at Jun 28, 2002 08:07:20 AM Message-ID: <200206281817.g5SIHxY27374@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I seem to remember someone saying that the DECservers are basically a > Q-Bus PDP-11 system. Is this correct, or am I thinking of something else? > Also, does anyone know what they're based off of and if it's possible to > make them boot a 'conventional' os by changing their bootroms? The DECserver 500 and 550 are PDP-11 systems. The others are not. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Jun 28 13:34:14 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Space Quest (was Re: Scott Adam's Adventure Games) In-Reply-To: <20020628141354.1c1da59c.kevin@mpcf.com> from "Kevin" at Jun 28, 02 02:13:54 pm Message-ID: <200206281834.OAA05086@wordstock.com> And thusly Kevin spake: > > Space Quest! My favorite series of games aside from > SunDog. I remember what you are describing but i do > not remember which one it was in, I or II? > I just did a search... It was in Space Quest III - The Pirates of Pestulon. Here is an excerpt: ---------------------------------------------------------------- Go too far south then walk in any direction other than north. (get eaten by a giant snake) Snake: BURP! Congratulations on Your Recent Death! Thanks for playing Space Quest III. As usual, you've been a real hoot. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out more death scenes at: http://home.att.net/~tmdorw/sq3/sq3to.htm Cheers, Bryan From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Jun 28 13:44:39 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Brown Recluse spider References: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5126BF2@MAIL10> <3D1CA4F8.4050100@internet1.net> Message-ID: <00cd01c21ed3$dc8917e0$0100000a@deepspacenine> "Chad Fernandez" said: > I've researched the net for Brown Recluse before. You really have to > look at a lot of pictures, and read many descriptions. Alot of the > pictures on web sites don't even look like the same. I'm thankful the worst we've got to deal with over here in the UK are two-inch black house spiders... They do seem to have a taste for flies, though. I wish some of the spiders around here would acquire a taste for wasps... Gawd I hate those things... Poisonous spiders - just one of the many reasons I'm not moving to the USA or Australia any time soon... I went to New York (Long Island) last year and saw a spider that was black (IIRC) and looked like a two-inch replica of the one in Rockefeller Plaza (?). i.e. long legs, don't know if it had any hair on it, and it looked like it had cuts taken out of the back of it... Kinda like chicken-wire. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 28 14:01:56 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Question about DECservers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020628190156.16193.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> --- Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I seem to remember someone saying that the DECservers are basically a > Q-Bus PDP-11 system. Is this correct, or am I thinking of something > else? As Eric Dittman already pointed out, you are correct in the case of the DECserver 500 and 550. There is a (labelled) KDJ11 board on a Qbus. I have one (the CPU board, not the DECserver). > Also, does anyone know what they're based off of and if it's possible to > make them boot a 'conventional' os by changing their bootroms? My board was so modified (by someone else). I have not had a chance to play with it yet - it has a BA213-style DEC handle and I have no compatible enclosures. My choices are to use a Qbus extender (for testing, obviously) or to drill off the handle and replace it with an older one or to get a newer enclosure. I think I will eventually get a BA213 chassis (seeing as how one went for $20 at Dayton with the KA655 board, memory, disk controller and two DELQAs still installed!) but temporarily, I might remove the handle. One minor problem with that is what to do with the diagnostic LED and console MMJ - in a BA-213, it fits nicely on the bracket (unlike a console I/O panel for, say, a MicroVAX I or II in a BA23) I was thinking of making an extender cable for a BA23, but hadn't gotten around to punching holes in a metal plate to mount it. AFAIK, there will be no perceptible difference between a KDJ11 board from a DECserver 5xx and a _real_ MicroPDP-11/53 cpu board - they both have some locally mounted RAM, same boot ROMs, etc. Your operating system will probably not see any difference - it's the same card once you have the same firmware in it. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From kevin at mpcf.com Fri Jun 28 15:11:10 2002 From: kevin at mpcf.com (Kevin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Spiders and Snakes; Was Re: Classic Computer Spider In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020628151110.0e205906.kevin@mpcf.com> Damn, i was unaware of that. I grew up in east Texas (closest other home was about 12 miles from us). I used to catch horned toads all the time. I used to love the new born ones, about the size of a dime. We would see them all over the place. Kinda sad... VeKTeReX On Fri, 28 Jun 2002 11:04:11 -0500 (CDT) Doc Shipley wrote: > On Fri, 28 Jun 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > On Fri, 28 Jun 2002, David Barnes wrote: > > > Now if I could only have trained her to go after > > ants I would have kept her around :) > > Amen. Here in Texas, the fire ant invasion is > killing off all manner > of native life. When I was a kid in West Texas, > horned toads were literally as common as cockroaches. > Unfortunately, their primary > delicacy is ants, and they'll sit by a mound or an > ant trail and pick the ants off. You can imagine > what happens when a horny toad does that on a fire > ant mound. Fire ants will swarm an intruder, and are > venomous enough to make even a human adult ill, if > there are enough bites. A horned toad is easy > pickings. > Horned toads are on the endangered species list > now, and nobody I know > has even seen one in ten years. As far as I know or > have been able to find out, there aren't any > "civilization" related factors in their impending > extinction. Just those blasted ants. > > Doc From kevin at mpcf.com Fri Jun 28 15:13:37 2002 From: kevin at mpcf.com (Kevin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Space Quest (was Re: Scott Adam's Adventure Games) In-Reply-To: <200206281834.OAA05086@wordstock.com> References: <20020628141354.1c1da59c.kevin@mpcf.com> <200206281834.OAA05086@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <20020628151337.66d5e9ea.kevin@mpcf.com> Must have been in the part where you landed on Phobos, or whatever the name was, and had to deal with the souvenir guy and the terminator robot. VeKTeReX On Fri, 28 Jun 2002 14:34:14 -0400 (edt) Bryan Pope wrote: > And thusly Kevin spake: > > > > Space Quest! My favorite series of games aside > > from SunDog. I remember what you are describing > > but i do not remember which one it was in, I or II? > > > > I just did a search... It was in Space Quest III - > The Pirates of Pestulon. > > Here is an excerpt: > > ---------------------------------------------------- > ------------ Go too far south then walk in any > direction other than north. > > (get eaten by a giant snake) > > Snake: BURP! > > Congratulations on Your Recent Death! > Thanks for playing Space Quest III. As usual, you've > been a real hoot. > > ---------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > > Check out more death scenes at: > http://home.att.net/~tmdorw/sq3/sq3to.htm > > Cheers, > > Bryan From mew_list at swbell.net Fri Jun 28 14:17:52 2002 From: mew_list at swbell.net (Mitch Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Forth for PDP-11 References: <200206272152.RAA03579@conman.org> Message-ID: <3D1CB660.2936@swbell.net> Are there other forths( fig or F83) for the PDP-11? Where? --Mitch From mew_list at swbell.net Fri Jun 28 14:21:05 2002 From: mew_list at swbell.net (Mitch Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: DEC gear with T-11 chip References: <3D1BECCF.8040208@internet1.net> <3D1C5FEB.F39E213E@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <3D1CB721.380E@swbell.net> What all did Digital make that used the T-11 chip? I know of: DEUNA RQDX VT-240 Falcon 11/21 8600 console What else? Thanks, From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Jun 28 14:24:54 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? References: Message-ID: <019501c21ed9$7bbcc320$0100000a@deepspacenine> "Tony Duell" said: > > Tandy & others did this as well... My CoCos always had one screw taped over > > with a tamper seal - if it was punched, they wouldn't warranty it. Granted, > > Many of those Tandy seals could be peeled off in one piece and stuck back > later :-). Really? Without leaving a silver foil checkerboard pattern behind? Ugh, I hate those stickers. Example: 1995-made PSU. "Warranty void if removed" label. I peeled off said label and it left behind a tinfoil checkerboard pattern. I ended up using a hairdryer, then some isopropyl alcohol, then some meths and finally half a can of Electrolube Fluxclene. It still wouldn't come off! I just poked my screwdriver through it and proceeded to fix the fault. > > it didn't take long for the 90-day warranties to expire, and when I was > > more experienced with computers I knew I could fix anything necessary > > inside one of my machines, so I didn't care... (just like my Tivo - The > Me too..... I just ignore the seals and dive in. "Warranty? What's that?" > Mind you, I've seen PCs in the UK with warranty terms that include > voiding said warranty if you install a different OS (or even a different > version of the OS). [!!!] That's just plain dumb... "Hello, Computer Shop, x speaking..." "My machine just broke. Hard drive won't spin up. Serial number yyyy" "What OS are you using?" "Linux" [swap for Solaris/BSD/whatever to suit taste] "Sorry, we don't support that operating system. I've just logged this call and your warranty is now void. Have a nice day." I don't know about you, but I'd be fuming... > My guess is that this is really because the tech > support idiots can't answer questions about real OSes. I also suspect > that if, say, the hard drive had a headcrash 2 weeks after you'd bought > the system and installed linux (or whatever), then they _would_ still > have to replace the hard drive. My trick for dealing with dead drives: RMA them. Maxtor seem to be pretty good at RMAing - I Advance RMA'd my 5T040H4 (failing to spin up) and ended up with a replacement on my doorstep within the week. I then tried to copy the 'H4 to the new drive and the 'H4 died during the copy. I powered back up and the new drive was full of garbage and the old drive was stone dead. No motor, nothing. I did eventually get it to spin back up, but it was completely trashed, too. I also found out my off-site backup service had dumped part of my incremental backup. Their excuse - "You were near your quota so we deleted some old stuff for you". Had they told me before they nuked four months of my data, I wouldn't have cared - I'd have just told my backup program (in-house custom app - written with Delphi using the Zlib library for compression) to rebuild the backup files. Instead, they destroyed four months of irreplaceable e-mails. I promptly closed my account and added my backup files to one of my website mirrors in a password-protected area. It's mirrored on two other servers, plus it's also mirrored onto one of my local fileservers, Defiant (spot the Star Trek references - my laptop has the nickname "Voyager", the fileserver is "Defiant" and the net access machine is "DeepSpaceNine"). Now that's what I call data security. Did I mention the CDR recorder? Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Jun 28 09:50:37 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Question about DECservers In-Reply-To: <200206281817.g5SIHxY27374@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Jun 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > I seem to remember someone saying that the DECservers are basically a > > Q-Bus PDP-11 system. Is this correct, or am I thinking of something else? > > Also, does anyone know what they're based off of and if it's possible to > > make them boot a 'conventional' os by changing their bootroms? > > The DECserver 500 and 550 are PDP-11 systems. The others > are not. OK, What are the 100 and 700 based off of, and can they be hacked to do other useful things (ie run a different OS given the appropriate boot roms)? Specifically, what kind of CPU / other hardware is in the box? -- Pat From ghldbrd at ccp.com Fri Jun 28 14:44:49 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: DEC Etherworks LC book Message-ID: <3D1CBCB1.7716471A@ccp.com> Didn't know this, but I found it among my Apple II stuff, and if anyone wants it, give me a US snail address and it's yours. Looks like an early ethernet card for PCs. Gary Hildebrand ST. Joseph, MO From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Jun 28 14:47:51 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Questions about Central Point Deluxe Option board References: Message-ID: <01cf01c21edc$b08c0540$0100000a@deepspacenine> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" said: > On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > The board contained one large ASIC, so I couldn't figure out what it was > The earlier (NOT "Deluxe") version was available in a version of discrete > TTL. It shouldn't be too hard for us to find one, if you want to check it > out. I'd be interested in having a look at one, too, maybe reverse engineer it. Unfortunately there are only two options: Non destructive (pick a probe point and then go over the entire board looking for connections, then draw up a schematic and build a clone on a protoboard) Destructive (take a heatgun to the board and remove all the components, then strip the soldermask, scan the PCB and import it into Eagle/PADS/Protel). Believe me, those are the only two options. Unless someone raided the dumpsters at Central Point before Symantec absorbed them and managed to get a schematic... Anyone got a copy of CopyIIPC (latest rev if possible)? Or know how it worked? Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jun 28 14:46:23 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Question about DECservers In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Finnegan" at Jun 28, 2002 09:50:37 AM Message-ID: <200206281946.g5SJkNj28702@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > The DECserver 500 and 550 are PDP-11 systems. The others > > are not. > > OK, What are the 100 and 700 based off of, and can they be hacked to do > other useful things (ie run a different OS given the appropriate boot > roms)? Specifically, what kind of CPU / other hardware is in the box? I'm not sure about the 100 (it's been a while since I looked in one), but the 700 has a 68000 (or some derivative). A lot of people think the 700 is pretty useful as a terminal server (I know I do). If you have one with the model number DSRVW-Zx, or -Cx, where x is either A or C (may be others, but those are the ones I'm sure of), sell it on eBay and use the money to buy something you can hack. The models I listed are flash- compatible, and still sell for quite a bit. Try listing one with a BuyItNow of $400 and see how quickly it gets snapped up. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From univac2 at earthlink.net Fri Jun 28 15:07:31 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Spiders and Snakes; Was Re: Classic Computer Spider In-Reply-To: <02Jun28.130000edt.119049@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: on 6/28/02 11:56 AM, Jeff Hellige at jhellige@earthlink.net wrote: >> Horned toads are on the endangered species list now, and nobody I know >> has even seen one in ten years. As far as I know or have been able to >> find out, there aren't any "civilization" related factors in their >> impending extinction. Just those blasted ants. > > Wow...I didn't know that. I remember visits to Texas as a kid > and seeing the horned toads all over the place. That sucks... When my father first moved to Texas, he saw one as soon as he stepped out of the car. He thought it was a scorpion at first. Maybe rather than the ants, they left because they were angry with TCU for commercializing their image. -- Owen Robertson From hansp at aconit.org Fri Jun 28 15:18:52 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Forth for PDP-11 References: <200206272152.RAA03579@conman.org> <3D1CB660.2936@swbell.net> Message-ID: <3D1CC4AC.9090003@aconit.org> Mitch Wright wrote: > Are there other forths( fig or F83) for the PDP-11? Where? These two I found with Google: http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/rt/sigtapes/11s076/forth/ http://world.std.com/~jcomeau/ftparea/hacking/mystuff/pdp11/forth.bld -- hbp From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Jun 28 15:18:26 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: ebay deals do happen References: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16D06@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> Message-ID: <01fb01c21ee0$f5f86700$0100000a@deepspacenine> "Corda Albert J DLVA" said: > Seems like I'll have to start looking through my > ancient chip supply... I seem to remember a tube > of the ceramic 8080 cpus somewhere... > > Of course, I might accidently _flood_ the market... :-) I might be interested in acquiring a few 8080s to play with - ceramic or plastic, I don't mind either way. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jun 28 15:37:56 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Spider In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Jun 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > I don't kill any creature unless it is presenting an imminent danger. > This was just a big, harmless, hairy spider that wanted to go about it's > business eating stupid bugs. And from the looks of it, this one spider > was probably keeping my garage free of stupid bugs single-handedly. > > Now if I could only have trained her to go after ants I would have kept > her around :) If you could train her to go after MICROSOFT bugs, she could grow to the size of Oakland, and still not make a noticable change in the population. From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 28 15:48:09 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: DEC gear with T-11 chip In-Reply-To: <3D1CB721.380E@swbell.net> from "Mitch Wright" at Jun 28, 2002 02:21:05 PM Message-ID: <200206282048.g5SKm9e20610@shell1.aracnet.com> > What all did Digital make that used the T-11 chip? > > I know of: > > DEUNA > RQDX > VT-240 > Falcon 11/21 > 8600 console > > What else? Did they really use them for 8600 console's? I thought those were all Dec Pro350's and 380's. Zane From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Jun 28 15:50:00 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:47 2005 Subject: Free VAX 11/750 (Colorado) Message-ID: <20020628205000.GE25967@mrbill.net> Please contact Gary directly if interested. ----- Forwarded message from Gary Zilik ----- Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 14:41:49 -0600 From: Gary Zilik To: mrbill@decvax.org Subject: Vax system We currently are doing some house cleaning and have a vax 11/750 in working condition free to a good home. Many spare parts are included. If someone can use the system it would be better than the recycle bin. Unfortuanaly we no longer have any of the manuals. -- Gary Zilik - Sr. Geophysicist Excel Geophysical Services, Inc. Email: zilik@excelgeo.com 8301 E. Prentice Ave., Suite 402 Phone: (303) 694-9629 Greenwood Village, CO 80111 Fax: (303) 771-1646 ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 28 15:50:15 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Question about DECservers In-Reply-To: from "Eric Dittman" at Jun 28, 2002 01:17:59 PM Message-ID: <200206282050.g5SKoFX20786@shell1.aracnet.com> > > I seem to remember someone saying that the DECservers are basically a > > Q-Bus PDP-11 system. Is this correct, or am I thinking of something else? > > Also, does anyone know what they're based off of and if it's possible to > > make them boot a 'conventional' os by changing their bootroms? > > The DECserver 500 and 550 are PDP-11 systems. The others > are not. And to finish answering the original question, the CPU boards are basically a PDP-11/53, and all you need to do is change the ROMs and add a disk controller. Zane From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 28 15:31:59 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: [OT] Waddizzit?? In-Reply-To: <019501c21ed9$7bbcc320$0100000a@deepspacenine> from "Philip Pemberton" at Jun 28, 2 08:24:54 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2780 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020628/729c23cd/attachment.ksh From oliv555 at arrl.net Fri Jun 28 16:53:22 2002 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: late spring-cleaning Message-ID: <3D1CDAD2.3020602@arrl.net> A cleanup at my workplace has yielded the following items dumpster-bound. These will be pickup only in the Houston area (near Bush Int'l) and may not be available for very long. Most too large to ship, don't have the time or materials. Best if u can pickup this weekend. Contact me off-list if interested. - 18 Rk05 diskpacks; NOT the 12-sector type used on PDP11, these have 8 slots in the sector ring (PDP8 ?). Don't know what they came off of. - LA-100 printer; desktop, working - DEC paper reader/punch (rack mount) + PC11 controller (unibus) +docs + a Bunch of paper tapes. Long unused, last known working - several DD-11 backplanes (unibus) - Cipher f880 rack mount, front load 1600bpi tape. Working pull from de-comm sys - SGI Iris 1400 + rgb monitor + kb + mouse + docs. Condition ? This is a pedestal style, not a desktop. - 2 RL02's (1 working, 1 not), 6 packs mostly rt11, 1 rsx - 2 inop la36's - misc: df11's, rz23's, 8" hard-sec floppies, .... nick From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 28 15:49:25 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Questions about Central Point Deluxe Option board In-Reply-To: <01cf01c21edc$b08c0540$0100000a@deepspacenine> from "Philip Pemberton" at Jun 28, 2 08:47:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1220 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020628/0fc8c0ce/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jun 28 15:41:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Forth for PDP-11 In-Reply-To: <200206280104.g5S143Z11728@shell1.aracnet.com> from "Zane H. Healy" at Jun 27, 2 06:04:03 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1497 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020628/fec12592/attachment.ksh From kevin at mpcf.com Fri Jun 28 17:04:13 2002 From: kevin at mpcf.com (Kevin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Spiders and Snakes; Was Re: Classic Computer Spider In-Reply-To: References: <02Jun28.130000edt.119049@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <20020628170413.5df326ea.kevin@mpcf.com> lol.. Horn Toads are notoriously open source. /VeK ... who has spent many childhood hours playing around the TCU bio and chem buildings. On Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:07:31 -0500 Owen Robertson wrote: > on 6/28/02 11:56 AM, Jeff Hellige at > jhellige@earthlink.net wrote: > > >> Horned toads are on the endangered species list > >now, and nobody I know> has even seen one in ten > >years. As far as I know or have been able to> find > >out, there aren't any "civilization" related factors > >in their> impending extinction. Just those blasted > >ants. > > > > Wow...I didn't know that. I remember visits to > > Texas as a kid and seeing the horned toads all over > > the place. That sucks... > > When my father first moved to Texas, he saw one as > soon as he stepped out of the car. He thought it was > a scorpion at first. Maybe rather than the ants, they > left because they were angry with TCU for > commercializing their image. > > -- > Owen Robertson From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 28 16:03:20 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Question about DECservers In-Reply-To: from "Patrick Finnegan" at Jun 28, 2002 09:50:37 AM Message-ID: <200206282103.g5SL3K721338@shell1.aracnet.com> > OK, What are the 100 and 700 based off of, and can they be hacked to do > other useful things (ie run a different OS given the appropriate boot > roms)? Specifically, what kind of CPU / other hardware is in the box? > > -- Pat IIRC, the 100 _must_ be netbooted, and the 700 might have to be (I believe it came in two flavors, one of which doesn't need to be netbooted). I've never heard of anyone useing these for anything other than their original purpose. I'm not sure, but I think you can use the 700 as a console server once you've gotten it to load its software. Zane From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Jun 28 16:14:42 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Questions about Central Point Deluxe Option board References: Message-ID: <024901c21ee8$d269f300$0100000a@deepspacenine> "Tony Duell" said: > > "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" said: > > > On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > The board contained one large ASIC, so I couldn't figure out what it was > > > The earlier (NOT "Deluxe") version was available in a version of discrete > > > TTL. It shouldn't be too hard for us to find one, if you want to check it > > > out. > > I'd be interested in having a look at one, too, maybe reverse engineer it. > > Unfortunately there are only two options: > > Non destructive (pick a probe point and then go over the entire board > > looking for connections, then draw up a schematic and build a clone on a > > protoboard) > Why is doing this a problem? The time taken to trace out a schematic in > this manner goes roughly as the square of the number of components (but > perhaps a smaller power), it's faster the more large components there are > (since those can be used in one way, and tie down a lot of signals). The > PC edge connector and drive connectors count as 'components' for this as > they indentify signals. I managed to get a HTEC "Kitty Card" 8031-based system. 32K RAM, unknown amount of program ROM, 8031 CPU and an AMD PALCE to do all the address decoding. The PALCE will be a pain in the rear to decode - I don't have a Universal Programmer so I can't just pull a JEDEC file out of it and run it through JED2EQN anyway... > I would estimate that a PCB of 20 TTL chips would take a good afternoon > to trace out. Not that long. How many chips are there on the old Option > Board anyway? And where can I find one? That's what I'd like to know, too... Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Jun 28 16:35:11 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: late spring-cleaning In-Reply-To: <3D1CDAD2.3020602@arrl.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Jun 2002, no wrote: > A cleanup at my workplace has yielded the following items > dumpster-bound. These will be pickup only in the Houston > area (near Bush Int'l) and may not be available for very long. > > Most too large to ship, don't have the time or materials. Best if > u can pickup this weekend. Contact me off-list if interested. [snip] > > > - DEC paper reader/punch (rack mount) + PC11 controller (unibus) > +docs + a Bunch of paper tapes. Long unused, last known working Realizing in advance what you have said about time/energy/motivation regards shipping Heavy Old Things; nonetheless I'd be quite willing to make it worth your while if you would consider holding this out of the load until I could arrange to have it sent to me in Northern California. Several of the 'mail' companies offer packing and UPs and/or FedEx shipping - you just drop it off and they do the rest. Also, there a couple of LIstmemers there in TX for whom I've boxed and shipped Stuff - so they owe me, I figger. I've got two 11/44 systems on the way and this machine would help out greatly in their intended use as archival and media interchange machines - as well as just a lot of retro-fun! Lemme know if there might be a Plan embedded in this somewhere... Cheers John KB6SCO PS: I pay cash.... ;} From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Jun 28 16:38:28 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Why I hate gitten old... Message-ID: Please have vicarious fun reading what was intended to be a private reply.. sigh. I guess we all have to do this once or twice, just for Balance... I *still* like reply-to-list, no matter what... Cheers John From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 28 16:43:37 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Question about DECservers In-Reply-To: <200206282050.g5SKoFX20786@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20020628214337.51871.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > And to finish answering the original question, the CPU boards are > basically a PDP-11/53, and all you need to do is change the ROMs > and add a disk controller. Or just add power and a TU-58 (or use a PC as a TU-58 emulator) :-) (I _think_ there's a second serial port on the board. There _is_ with the KDF11-based 11/23+ CPU board). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Fri Jun 28 16:46:04 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: DEC gear with T-11 chip Message-ID: >Did they really use them for 8600 console's? >I thought those were all Dec >Pro350's and 380's. Yes, the 8600 (Venus) console did use the T-11. You are thinking of the Nautilus machines (VAX 8700 and VAX 8800) which used a Pro 380 as the console. The later (closely related) Polarstar series (VAX 8830, VAX 8840, VAX 8820) used the MicroVAX II as a console. I found some references to the Simpact ICP1600 claiming that it too used a T-11. There's also T-11 support in MAME ... it looks like some Atari arcade games may have used it (came as something of a surprise to me ...) Antonio From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 28 16:48:22 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: late spring-cleaning In-Reply-To: <3D1CDAD2.3020602@arrl.net> Message-ID: <20020628214822.31618.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- no wrote: > A cleanup at my workplace has yielded the following items > dumpster-bound. These will be pickup only in the Houston > area (near Bush Int'l) and may not be available for very long. Foo! Too far. :-( > - 18 Rk05 diskpacks; NOT the 12-sector type used on PDP11, these > have 8 slots in the sector ring (PDP8 ?). Don't know what > they came off of. Real RK05 packs came in two flavors for DEC equipment - 12 sectors of 16-bit words for PDP-11s and 16-sectors of 12-bit words. Perhaps you have a pack from some other drive that is mechanically similar, but not identical. I know Plessey made DEC-compatible machines. Perhaps the packs are slightly different. The same style of packs were also used in the IBM 1130, but I have no idea how many sectors they are. Ditto for RK02/RK04 (low-density version of the RK03/RK05)packs... not sure how they look. > - DEC paper reader/punch (rack mount) + PC11 controller (unibus) > +docs + a Bunch of paper tapes. Long unused, last known working I'd love it. Can't get to Texas by this weekend. :-( -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From msell at ontimesupport.com Fri Jun 28 16:51:32 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: late spring-cleaning In-Reply-To: <3D1CDAD2.3020602@arrl.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020628164932.03576e20@127.0.0.1> Nick, Mitch Wright and myself would like to grab the whole lot. Mitch will be bringing his truck. Please hold this stuff! : ) You can reply to msell@ontimesupport.com if you like. Sorry - but your address doesn't show up here for a proper off-line reply. - Matt ]\At 03:53 PM 6/28/2002 -0600, you wrote: >A cleanup at my workplace has yielded the following items >dumpster-bound. These will be pickup only in the Houston >area (near Bush Int'l) and may not be available for very long. > >Most too large to ship, don't have the time or materials. Best if >u can pickup this weekend. Contact me off-list if interested. > >- 18 Rk05 diskpacks; NOT the 12-sector type used on PDP11, these > have 8 slots in the sector ring (PDP8 ?). Don't know what > they came off of. > >- LA-100 printer; desktop, working > >- DEC paper reader/punch (rack mount) + PC11 controller (unibus) > +docs + a Bunch of paper tapes. Long unused, last known working > >- several DD-11 backplanes (unibus) > >- Cipher f880 rack mount, front load 1600bpi tape. Working pull > from de-comm sys > >- SGI Iris 1400 + rgb monitor + kb + mouse + docs. Condition ? > This is a pedestal style, not a desktop. > >- 2 RL02's (1 working, 1 not), 6 packs mostly rt11, 1 rsx > >- 2 inop la36's > >- misc: df11's, rz23's, 8" hard-sec floppies, .... > > > nick Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020628/50517ce3/attachment.html From oliv555 at arrl.net Fri Jun 28 18:02:32 2002 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: late spring-cleaning References: <20020628214822.31618.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D1CEB08.4050200@arrl.net> Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- no wrote: > >>A cleanup at my workplace has yielded the following items >>dumpster-bound. These will be pickup only in the Houston >>area (near Bush Int'l) and may not be available for very long. > > > Foo! Too far. :-( > > >>- 18 Rk05 diskpacks; NOT the 12-sector type used on PDP11, these >> have 8 slots in the sector ring (PDP8 ?). Don't know what >> they came off of. > > > Real RK05 packs came in two flavors for DEC equipment - 12 sectors > of 16-bit words for PDP-11s and 16-sectors of 12-bit words. Perhaps > you have a pack from some other drive that is mechanically similar, > but not identical. I know Plessey made DEC-compatible machines. > Perhaps the packs are slightly different. The same style of packs > were also used in the IBM 1130, but I have no idea how many sectors > they are. Ditto for RK02/RK04 (low-density version of the > RK03/RK05)packs... not sure how they look. > My dept seems to have become a repository for other groups unwanted "junk". Sometimes a good thing, usually not. Have no idea what system those packs were used on. Forgot to include: a CR11 board and a non-dec extender (quad) no From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jun 28 17:06:58 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: late spring-cleaning In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020628164932.03576e20@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Jun 2002, Matthew Sell wrote: > > Nick, > > > Mitch Wright and myself would like to grab the whole lot. > > Mitch will be bringing his truck. I think Matt wins. Doc From rhudson at cnonline.net Fri Jun 28 17:11:22 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Spider In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200206281511.22415.rhudson@cnonline.net> On Friday 28 June 2002 08:24 am, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 28 Jun 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > I would have squished it..... looks like a really big brown recluse to > > me. > > That would not be right. I talked to our "bug lady" (who was here on paper wasp business at my house this morning) She declined to let me identify company or personal name. But from the pictue she said it was most likely a Wolf spider, but it might have been a brown recluse. She also said the proper thing do do with the beast was not to loose it in a local park, but to offere it to your cities "Agricultural" department. I don't know if Oakland CA has and "Agricultural" department.... ron hudson.. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--- International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com > * From msell at ontimesupport.com Fri Jun 28 17:10:08 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: late spring-cleaning In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020628164932.03576e20@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020628170906.0357de90@127.0.0.1> We also live 20 minutes from Bush Intercontinental.... : ) - Matt That RL-02 will get my PDP-11/84 booting... At 05:06 PM 6/28/2002 -0500, you wrote: >On Fri, 28 Jun 2002, Matthew Sell wrote: > > > > > Nick, > > > > > > Mitch Wright and myself would like to grab the whole lot. > > > > Mitch will be bringing his truck. > > > I think Matt wins. > > Doc Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020628/c52736cb/attachment.html From louiss at gate.net Fri Jun 28 17:20:51 2002 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Spider In-Reply-To: <200206281511.22415.rhudson@cnonline.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:11:22 -0700, Ron Hudson wrote: Having done post graduate research on arthropods, I can say that this was a wolf spider. Wolf spiders are large spiders that chase down their prey, rather than waiting in webs. They are quite common, and harmless (although I imagine picking one up could result in a real ouchy). The brown recluse is small, about half an inch. Though common, they hide in damp places and so are not often encountered. Releasing the spider was definitely the right thing to do. By the way, the way to conclusively identify a wolf spider is by the arrangement of its multiple eyes. Sellam, did you look at its face? :-0 Louis #I talked to our "bug lady" (...#from the pictue she said it was most likely a Wolf spider, but it might have #been a brown recluse. From davebarnes at adelphia.net Fri Jun 28 18:26:27 2002 From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Spider References: <30DBA2DACC0CD611B3E60008C7092D8F2F8E94@hqvenloexch.oce.nl> Message-ID: <3D1CF0A3.EF3F97B1@adelphia.net> I seem to recall seeing someone who had been bitten by this little beauty in the foot, and after a week this person's foot was almost 'eaten away'!!!! wow! Gooijen H wrote: > Yes, they are! > I saw a program on spiders a few eeks ago on the Discovery Channel. > They mentioned the brown recluse spider, and she is indeed quite > dangerous. You hardly notice the bite of this spider, but after a > few days you become sick/ill. If not treated well there are serious > problems for you. I do not remember if the "problem" is fatal ... > > - Henk. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: David Barnes [mailto:davebarnes@adelphia.net] > > Sent: vrijdag 28 juni 2002 15:09 > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: Classic Computer Spider > > > > > > and aren't brown recluse spiders VERY dangerous? > > > > > > > > > > Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > > > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > Check out this beauty: > > > > > > > > http://www.siconic.com/crap/Classic%20Computer%20Spider.jpg > > > > > > > > She's about 3 inches in diameter. Maybe not the biggest > > you've ever seen, > > > > but pretty much the biggest that's ever come out of my garage. > > > > > > > > I found her hiding in the corner of my garage amidst the > > last remaining > > > > old computer stuffs that are there. I caught her in a > > glass, where she > > > > spent the rest of the day until I could figure out what > > to do with her. > > > > > > > > I just let her go at the park down the street. > > > > > > I would have squished it..... looks like a really big brown > > recluse to me. > > > > > > Chad Fernandez > > > Michigan, USA From davebarnes at adelphia.net Fri Jun 28 18:27:08 2002 From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Question about DECservers References: Message-ID: <3D1CF0CC.CE1D3D41@adelphia.net> depends upon the model.. which model are you referring to? Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I seem to remember someone saying that the DECservers are basically a > Q-Bus PDP-11 system. Is this correct, or am I thinking of something else? > Also, does anyone know what they're based off of and if it's possible to > make them boot a 'conventional' os by changing their bootroms? > > Thanks > > -- Pat From davebarnes at adelphia.net Fri Jun 28 18:31:23 2002 From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Spider References: Message-ID: <3D1CF1CB.44D865AB@adelphia.net> I second that.... just gently (and carefully) move her to another spot far away where she can enjoy life.... treat her like a mint condition PDP 11/70... (ie VERY carefully).. hehe Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 28 Jun 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > I would have squished it..... looks like a really big brown recluse to me. > > That would not be right. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vaxman at earthlink.net Fri Jun 28 18:07:07 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Yet another DECserver question Message-ID: What DECservers can be used in console mode? IE I telnet to a port on the decserver, and it connects me out a serial port to a VAX? Also required is the ability to send a break (for my sparcstations) Regards, Clint From menadeau at attbi.com Fri Jun 28 18:04:06 2002 From: menadeau at attbi.com (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Spider References: <200206281511.22415.rhudson@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <005b01c21ef8$1aa5ee80$0b01a8c0@ValuedCustomer> Considering the size, I would say it was definitely a harmless wolf spider. We have lots of them in New England--very fast. The cats love to chase and eat them. --Mike Michael Nadeau Editor/Publisher Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource www.classictechpub.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Hudson" To: Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 6:11 PM Subject: Re: Classic Computer Spider > On Friday 28 June 2002 08:24 am, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Fri, 28 Jun 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > I would have squished it..... looks like a really big brown recluse to > > > me. > > > > That would not be right. > > I talked to our "bug lady" (who was here on paper wasp business at my house > this morning) She declined to let me identify company or personal name. But > from the pictue she said it was most likely a Wolf spider, but it might have > been a brown recluse. She also said the proper thing do do with the beast > was not to loose it in a local park, but to offere it to your cities > "Agricultural" department. > > I don't know if Oakland CA has and "Agricultural" department.... > > > ron hudson.. > > > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > > Festival > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - > >--- International Man of Intrigue and Danger > > http://www.vintage.org > > > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com > > * > From thompson at new.rr.com Fri Jun 28 18:27:33 2002 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Yet another DECserver question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have personally configured this on the DECserver 300 and 90tl series. I know that it does not work on the odious 90l series (which don't support TCPIP anyway) You can do much the same on any DECserver if you don't mind using LAT instead of TCPIP. I think you can do a break with most, although I never worried about it. On Fri, 28 Jun 2002, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > > What DECservers can be used in console mode? IE I telnet to a port > on the decserver, and it connects me out a serial port to a VAX? > > Also required is the ability to send a break (for my sparcstations) > > Regards, > Clint > > -- From rschaefe at gcfn.org Fri Jun 28 17:14:02 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Fw: DEC Vax 6000-310 Message-ID: <004f01c21efe$65a788c0$6c469280@y5f3q8> Can anyone do something to help out this young lady? Her husband was aiming for a noble deed, and we should support him. Bob >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Kate Olin" >To: >Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 08:00 PM >Subject: DEC Vax 6000-310 > >I have a DEC Vax 6000-310 I have to sell. If interested, please email... blue@intrnet.net > also >If he could get his expenses back, he'd be happy in that he'd feel he was >preserving it and sending it to a good home, but if he can't get that, I'm >sure the tax deduction [to a charitable, computer-preserving, organization] > might take the sting out of it. He didn't pay that much for it. With the >hauling and what it cost him, I think he's got a 100 dollars in it. > >Anyway, thanks so much. I hope we can get our money back on it. My husband >just couldn't imagine letting them scrap it and he loves DEC stuff. If >anyone is interested too, perhaps we should tell them that it is located >deep in Southern Illinois (almost the tip of the state). And if needing >shipping, freightquote is really cheap for that. We've been really happy >with them. From rschaefe at gcfn.org Fri Jun 28 18:46:13 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Question about DECservers References: <200206282103.g5SL3K721338@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <005001c21efe$66695220$6c469280@y5f3q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 05:03 PM Subject: Re: Question about DECservers > > OK, What are the 100 and 700 based off of, and can they be hacked to do > > other useful things (ie run a different OS given the appropriate boot > > roms)? Specifically, what kind of CPU / other hardware is in the box? > > > > -- Pat > > IIRC, the 100 _must_ be netbooted, and the 700 might have to be (I believe > it came in two flavors, one of which doesn't need to be netbooted). I've > never heard of anyone useing these for anything other than their original > purpose. The 100 sports an MC68000 CPU, mops it's firmware, and has line drivers that may (haven't verified myself) provide modem control as well. I looked inside my 100 for a few minutes. Someone said they might have the tech reference for it, but I never heard back if it was found or not and I haven't persued it. > > I'm not sure, but I think you can use the 700 as a console server once > you've gotten it to load its software. The 100 is LAT-only. Not a problem if you plug it in to a VAXherd, but it might be a limiting factor if you want to use it in a non-VMS application. > > Zane Bob From vp at mcs.drexel.edu Fri Jun 28 19:43:39 2002 From: vp at mcs.drexel.edu (Vassilis Prevelakis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: 9826 hard drive Message-ID: <200206290043.UAA17045@king.mcs.drexel.edu> Hi, I have recently purchased an HP 9135A hard disc for use with my HP-87 computer. When I received it I connected it up and did a CAT to see if it could read the disc. I got the following listing which makes me believe that the disc drive was last connected to an HP 9826. I will eventually format the disc, but before I destroy the contents I would like to know if anybody recognizes anything and wants it strongly enough to be worth the trouble of retrieving it. I'll be away until July 21st, so until that date the disc is guarantied to be safe. If I haven't received any email by then, I'll assume that the disc contains no useful information. **vp ---------------------------------------- [ Volume ]: B9826 Name Type Bytes Recs `e ^ 256 21 `e ^ 256 3 `e ^ 256 3 CHEKSITE ^ e 256 36 MAINMENU ^ e 256 49 PLOTPRNT ^ e 256 143 FORMAT ^ e 256 140 RACKSUBS ^ e 256 114 V ^ e 256 51 SYSSUBS ^ e 256 90 COMS ^ e 256 97 SONDEFLT ^ e 256 238 Z ^ e 256 97 UTILNEW ^ e 256 105 PPNEW ^ e 256 131 CHEKNEW ^ e 256 95 MAINNEW ^ e 256 49 UTIL_HP ^ e 256 106 SF11 ^ e 256 1739 CC ^ e 256 66 SUBSLODR ^ e 256 73 NULL 256 112 UTIL ^ e 256 115 SPECANAL ^ e 256 113 NULL 256 237 From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Jun 28 19:26:08 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Help booting CTOS/BTOS Message-ID: Hi. I'm looking for either a boot disk image for a Convergent Technologies B26 (CP-001/9) or some help managing the normal boot sequence. The B26 has a hard disk, and boots perfectly from it. The only problem is that it boots directly into an application (or OS? OZ 4.1?) that requires a login. Which, of course, wasn't taped to the bottom of the keyboard or anything. :) It looks like the thing is willing to boot from floppy first, but it doesn't like me DOS 3.1 or 3.2 boot disk, or anything else I've tried. I'm reasonably sure it's a 720K DSQD drive. I'd like to find a CTOS boot floppy, so I can maybe edit the login files on the hard drive, or help interrupting or altering the boot sequence so I can bypass the login and do it. I have been able to go to a boot menu rather than booting automatically. Holding the spacebar during reset gets to: V 9.2 B,D,L,M,P,T:_ but I don't know where to go from there. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Doc From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Jun 28 17:24:17 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Rescued: 4 Plex Plus cd SCSI drive. In-Reply-To: <004f01c21efe$65a788c0$6c469280@y5f3q8> Message-ID: <20020629021817.SLSX3742.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Lucky with me, I found that thing. If it works, does this will work with most classic like sun, vax, etc and selectable to have 512 byte sector, most compatiable? Cheers, Wizard From vaxzilla at jarai.org Fri Jun 28 21:25:24 2002 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Rescued: 4 Plex Plus cd SCSI drive. In-Reply-To: <20020629021817.SLSX3742.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Jun 2002 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > Lucky with me, I found that thing. If it works, does this will work > with most classic like sun, vax, etc and selectable to have 512 byte > sector, most compatiable? I seem to recall that the Plextor drives work very well on at least Sun and NeXT systems. I imagine they'd also be well behaved on VAXen. -brian. From mbg at TheWorld.com Fri Jun 28 21:38:32 2002 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Question about DECservers Message-ID: <200206290238.WAA3642945@shell.TheWorld.com> >I seem to remember someone saying that the DECservers are basically a >Q-Bus PDP-11 system. Is this correct, or am I thinking of something >else? Also, does anyone know what they're based off of and if it's >possible to make them boot a 'conventional' os by changing their >bootroms? The only DECserver I know of based on the Qbus is the DS500, which uses a KDJ11-D (11/53[+]) as the heart of it... with different boot roms Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jun 28 21:39:17 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Rescued: 4 Plex Plus cd SCSI drive. In-Reply-To: <20020629021817.SLSX3742.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Jun 28, 2002 10:24:17 PM Message-ID: <200206290239.g5T2dHi03893@shell1.aracnet.com> > Lucky with me, I found that thing. If it works, does this will work > with most classic like sun, vax, etc and selectable to have 512 byte > sector, most compatiable? Well, last Sunday I got the 8x model working on my PDP-11/73. Zane From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Jun 28 18:06:01 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Rescued: 4 Plex Plus cd SCSI drive. In-Reply-To: <200206290239.g5T2dHi03893@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <20020629021817.SLSX3742.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Jun 28, 2002 10:24:17 PM Message-ID: <20020629025955.HRQY18868.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Subject: Re: Rescued: 4 Plex Plus cd SCSI drive. > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > From: "Zane H. Healy" > Reply-to: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 19:39:17 -0700 (PDT) > > Lucky with me, I found that thing. If it works, does this will work > > with most classic like sun, vax, etc and selectable to have 512 byte > > sector, most compatiable? > > Well, last Sunday I got the 8x model working on my PDP-11/73. Grand! :-) Someday when I can manage to get classics, I have that drive at hand. :-) I'm curious what that old days of computing was like back then. :-) In 93-96 period, I was vax account user at college on vms vax 5.4x I think. I find that vms very nice and loved notes compared to newsgroups! :-) Cheers, Wizard > > Zane > > From mythtech at mac.com Fri Jun 28 22:06:55 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Spider Message-ID: >That spider should have been captured and then sent to a lab to test for >chemical immunity. It may have been a new breed of super spider poised to >take over the world! LOL... maybe I'll catch one this summer. I normally leave them alone, they aren't very active. It isn't unusual for one to sit on the same part of the wall for a week or more. And since I am fairly sure it is just a common house spider (looks just like a giant version of the little black jumping spiders that are all over the same stairwell), I never worry about being hurt by one. -chris From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Jun 28 22:13:41 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Help booting CTOS/BTOS In-Reply-To: Doc Shipley's message of "Fri, 28 Jun 2002 19:26:08 -0500 (CDT)" References: Message-ID: <200206290313.g5T3DfJn046608@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Doc Shipley wrote: > but I don't know where to go from there. comp.sys.unisys? -Frank McConnell From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 28 23:00:24 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Spider In-Reply-To: <200206281511.22415.rhudson@cnonline.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Jun 2002, Ron Hudson wrote: > I talked to our "bug lady" (who was here on paper wasp business at my house > this morning) She declined to let me identify company or personal name. But > from the pictue she said it was most likely a Wolf spider, but it might have > been a brown recluse. She also said the proper thing do do with the beast > was not to loose it in a local park, but to offere it to your cities > "Agricultural" department. > > I don't know if Oakland CA has and "Agricultural" department.... Well, I'm actually in Livermore, which most likely does have some sort of Ag department being that we have a vibrant wine-making industry. At any rate, I considered keeping her for the local high school or community college science department but didn't think it would be fair to keep her couped up in a glass until I could get her to one of those places. As far as the appropriateness of letting it loose in the "wild", we all deserve to run naked and free through the woods. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Fri Jun 28 23:04:00 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Spider In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Jun 2002, Louis Schulman wrote: > Releasing the spider was definitely the right thing to do. By the way, > the way to conclusively identify a wolf spider is by the arrangement of > its multiple eyes. Sellam, did you look at its face? :-0 I did get as close up as I dared to but couldn't really make out any distinguishing characteristics. However, you can pretty well make out the top of her face from the photo. I guess those are two big eyes inside her front legs. And those are some big-assed teeth coming out below her eyes :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From kfergaso at swbell.net Fri Jun 28 23:19:44 2002 From: kfergaso at swbell.net (Kelly Fergason) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Forth for PDP-11 References: <200206272152.RAA03579@conman.org> Message-ID: <013301c21f24$32648f50$14434441@chess> I've sorta been looking for Fifth. If anyone still has a copy, I would appreciate it. Should be a relatively small file compared to things nowadays... I used to work with the guy that wrote it, Cliff Click, and from his descriptions, I always wanted to play with it a bit. Kelly ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" To: Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 4:52 PM Subject: Re: Forth for PDP-11 > > At college I wrote my own Forth-like system (called VIth as Fifth was > already taken 8-) that was pretty much like this. I even used it in one of > my classes to implement a Unix shell where Unix commands could be pushed > onto the stack (let's see, it took about two days to get it extended to be a > fully programmable Unix shell, which was a *team* project for the class). > From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Fri Jun 28 23:58:15 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: OT: Been There, Screamed About That Message-ID: <20020629045958.KTSV20203.imf13bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: David Woyciesjes > I'm reminded of one of my users who said her whole computer would > "freak out" when she used her mouse. (BTW She's right handed...) So, once I > get to her desk, everything is okay for me, and using the mouse (located to > the right, and behind the keyboard.) was normal. > So I ask her to show me. That's when I see her heavy, very loose & > baggy sleeve, wool sweater push down just about every key on the numeric > keypad. Especially the Enter key. When I pointed this out to her, she said > "No it's not. It's the computer!" > "Really? Okay. Well I'm gonna go downstairs and check the server for > problems. In the meantime, watch your sleeve, just in case." > And no, I didn't bother with the server. Just went to lunch. And > never heard about that problem again... A similar thing happened on a project I wrote code for years ago. A user at a remote location reported that the program was inserting spaces, at random, into the data entry form. Suspecting a faulty keyboard (other users had no trouble with the same form) I had the locals replace the keyboard, but that didn't help. Even replacing the entire PC didn't fix the problem, so my boss told me to go the location and fix whatever was going on. Upon arrival I found that the user in question was fairly short and had a habit of leaning forward into her desk. The problem was, her tits were pushing on the spacebar . . . Glen 0/0 If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if not now, when? -- Pirkei Avot From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jun 29 11:20:00 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: anti-tamper seals was Re: [OT] Waddizzit?? In-Reply-To: <019501c21ed9$7bbcc320$0100000a@deepspacenine> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020629112000.4e4fadc4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:24 PM 6/28/02 +0100, you wrote: >"Tony Duell" said: >> > Tandy & others did this as well... My CoCos always had one screw taped >over >> > with a tamper seal - if it was punched, they wouldn't warranty it. >Granted, >> >> Many of those Tandy seals could be peeled off in one piece and stuck back >> later :-). >Really? Without leaving a silver foil checkerboard pattern behind? Ugh, I >hate those stickers. Does anyone have a good way to clean off that checkerboard pattern that they leave behind? It's seems to be impervious to most solvents. Joe From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jun 29 10:39:58 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: anti-tamper seals was Re: [OT] Waddizzit?? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020629112000.4e4fadc4@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > >> > Tandy & others did this as well... My CoCos always had one screw taped > >over > >> > with a tamper seal - if it was punched, they wouldn't warranty it. > >Granted, > >> > >> Many of those Tandy seals could be peeled off in one piece and stuck back > >> later :-). > >Really? Without leaving a silver foil checkerboard pattern behind? Ugh, I > >hate those stickers. > Does anyone have a good way to clean off that checkerboard pattern that they leave behind? It's seems to be impervious to most solvents. Why don't they make tamper seals that are easier to tamper with? OB_CC: In the "early days" of the TRS-80, RS had a formal policy that the tamper seal must be intact. Modifications were OK, so long as the tamper seal was intact. The local "technician" had a personal policy that any mods were OK, iff you would furnish him with a schematic of the mods. "boat in a bottle" work, putting new glyptol (sp?) on after mods, or cutting a big hole in the case without disturbing the seal were all OK. I got the free buffered cable bypass mod on my "untampered" machine that had extra keys on the keyboard, lower case, software controlled reverse video, RCA jack for the composite video, etc. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Fri Jun 28 17:32:07 2002 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Brown Recluse spider In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5126BF2@MAIL10> from "Cini, Richard" at "Jun 28, 2002 01:40:17 pm" Message-ID: <200206282232.PAA27485@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > > For those arachnophobes, check out this link: > > http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/2000/2061.html > > Sam's picture doesn't look like a brown recluse. It's also too large to be a brown recluse. It looks like a wolf spider to me. http://mamba.bio.uci.edu/~pjbryant/biodiv/spiders/Lycosa%20sp.htm Not to mention that there are no Brown Recluses in California, despite myths to the contrary. (There's an entymologist at UCSD who has offered a reward of $10,000 for anyone who discovers a breeding population of Brown recluses in the state. Finding one in a crate of oranges doesn't count.) ISTR that california does has a population of less dangerous recluses. Black Widows and tarantulas we got. Eric From meltie at myrealbox.com Sat Jun 29 10:55:34 2002 From: meltie at myrealbox.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Fw: DEC Vax 6000-310 In-Reply-To: <3D1DD80C.7D54D8CC@liveround.com> References: <004f01c21efe$65a788c0$6c469280@y5f3q8> <3D1DD80C.7D54D8CC@liveround.com> Message-ID: <1025366137.2740.7.camel@stolichnaya.meltie.mine.nu> On Sat, 2002-06-29 at 16:53, J. Buck Caldwell wrote: > Wow..Unfortunately, while I'm probably the closest VAX enthusiast, I really > can't justify the VUPS/meter^3 - if I had the room for it, I would grab it, but > I'm very soon going to be forced to clean out the one space I have to store > inactive stuff, and I can't get something that size down my basement stairs > (really - I've got a fridge and a washer/drier that I hope never break, cause > they're stuck down here). There is *nothing* that cannot be removed with the help of an anglegrinder. Alex -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. Boink like she's the first woman you've ever seen naked. From buckaroo at liveround.com Sat Jun 29 10:53:48 2002 From: buckaroo at liveround.com (J. Buck Caldwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Fw: DEC Vax 6000-310 References: <004f01c21efe$65a788c0$6c469280@y5f3q8> Message-ID: <3D1DD80C.7D54D8CC@liveround.com> Wow..Unfortunately, while I'm probably the closest VAX enthusiast, I really can't justify the VUPS/meter^3 - if I had the room for it, I would grab it, but I'm very soon going to be forced to clean out the one space I have to store inactive stuff, and I can't get something that size down my basement stairs (really - I've got a fridge and a washer/drier that I hope never break, cause they're stuck down here). -- -Buckaroo "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Robert Schaefer wrote: > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Kate Olin" > >To: > >Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 08:00 PM > >Subject: DEC Vax 6000-310 > > > > >I have a DEC Vax 6000-310 I have to sell. If interested, please email... > blue@intrnet.net > > > > also > > >If he could get his expenses back, he'd be happy in that he'd feel he was > >preserving it and sending it to a good home, but if he can't get that, I'm > >sure the tax deduction [to a charitable, computer-preserving, organization] > > might take the sting out of it. He didn't pay that much for it. With the > >hauling and what it cost him, I think he's got a 100 dollars in it. > > > >Anyway, thanks so much. I hope we can get our money back on it. My > husband > >just couldn't imagine letting them scrap it and he loves DEC stuff. If > >anyone is interested too, perhaps we should tell them that it is located > >deep in Southern Illinois (almost the tip of the state). And if needing > >shipping, freightquote is really cheap for that. We've been really happy > >with them. From aek at spies.com Sat Jun 29 11:09:46 2002 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Questions about Central Point Deluxe Option board Message-ID: <200206291609.JAA25571@spies.com> High resolution scans of both deluxe and non-deluxe boards will be up at www.spies.com/aek/c2opt for the next week or so, for the curious. From foo at siconic.com Sat Jun 29 11:49:37 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: Brown Recluse spider In-Reply-To: <200206282232.PAA27485@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Jun 2002, Eric J. Korpela wrote: > [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > > > > For those arachnophobes, check out this link: > > > > http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/2000/2061.html > > > > Sam's picture doesn't look like a brown recluse. > > It's also too large to be a brown recluse. It looks like a wolf spider > to me. http://mamba.bio.uci.edu/~pjbryant/biodiv/spiders/Lycosa%20sp.htm While I didn't get too close to her face (I'm a wuss) and didn't notice those big scary eyes, the markings are definitely a real good match for the one I found. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jun 29 12:11:18 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:48 2005 Subject: VAXen Needed Message-ID: <200206291711.g5THBIT32130@narnia.int.dittman.net> I'm in need of a VAX 7660 (or any 76x0) and a 66x0. If you have any of these you'd let go for cheap, and can guarantee they are working when picked up, please let me know. I will even handle the shipping details myself. I'd also be able to use a 7730 instead of the 7660. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jun 29 12:27:50 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:49 2005 Subject: VAXen Needed In-Reply-To: <200206291711.g5THBIT32130@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 29 Jun 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > I'm in need of a VAX 7660 (or any 76x0) and a 66x0. If you > have any of these you'd let go for cheap, and can guarantee > they are working when picked up, please let me know. I will > even handle the shipping details myself. > > I'd also be able to use a 7730 instead of the 7660. Doesn't ask for much, does he? Flexible, too! Doc From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Jun 29 08:36:51 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:49 2005 Subject: Space Quest (was Re: Scott Adam's Adventure Games) In-Reply-To: <20020628151337.66d5e9ea.kevin@mpcf.com> References: <200206281834.OAA05086@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <20020629173047.JPQI18503.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: Kevin > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Space Quest (was Re: Scott Adam's Adventure Games) > Organization: MPCF > Reply-to: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:13:37 -0500 > Must have been in the part where you landed on Phobos, > or whatever the name was, and had to deal with the > souvenir guy and the terminator robot. Yes that it. Space Quest 3. Beat it years ago. Haven't able to finish the Space Quest 2 I think Since that ending where you have to escape from space station in escape pod. That point I always get killed. Is there a trick to it? Cheers, Wizard > > VeKTeReX > > Bryan > From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Jun 29 12:54:55 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:49 2005 Subject: Questions about Central Point Deluxe Option board References: <200206291609.JAA25571@spies.com> Message-ID: <002501c21f96$149d3e00$0100000a@deepspacenine> "Al Kossow" said: > High resolution scans of both deluxe and non-deluxe boards will > be up at www.spies.com/aek/c2opt for the next week or so, for > the curious. Well, that's enough to get the bottom layer into EAGLE or Autotrax, along with all the components. The top layer tracks might be a bit of a problem though... I can try anyway, but unless someone can probe the tracks that are going under ICs on a "live" TTL-only "Transcopy" (CopyIIPC) Option Board, this project of mine may as well be dumped now :-/ I don't mind a challenge, though :-) Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jun 29 13:09:20 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:49 2005 Subject: VAXen Needed In-Reply-To: from "Doc Shipley" at Jun 29, 2002 12:27:50 PM Message-ID: <200206291809.g5TI9KK32279@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > I'm in need of a VAX 7660 (or any 76x0) and a 66x0. If you > > have any of these you'd let go for cheap, and can guarantee > > they are working when picked up, please let me know. I will > > even handle the shipping details myself. > > > > I'd also be able to use a 7730 instead of the 7660. > > Doesn't ask for much, does he? Flexible, too! I'm not asking for free, and when I mean cheap I mean for less than a reseller, but more than a token amount. This is for a company that has asked me to see if I can find any for less than a reseller wants. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jun 29 13:34:52 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:49 2005 Subject: Questions about Central Point Deluxe Option board In-Reply-To: <002501c21f96$149d3e00$0100000a@deepspacenine> Message-ID: Wouldn't it be EASIER to just design a circuit to do the job, rather than trying to trace theirs? It is NOT that complicated! The existing FDC deals with drive select, seeking to track, etc. Then the add-on board (such as option board, Apple Turnover, Catweasel, etc.) takes the pulses on the data line and stores them as bits. The rest is software. But buying an option board is less work than building one. Option board v "Deluxe" option board: I asked Brown of Central Point about programming data for the option board, for adding support of it into XenoCopy (didn't happen). He asked me about reading Mac 400k/800K disk with it. I told him, that until I studied it (and hopefully got tech data from him), that I couldn't be sure, but that I didn't think that the option board could handle a wide enough range of data transfer rates. That was then, apparently, the primary design goal of the "deluxe". There are a few websites with some info on the board; there might even be one with the amount of programming info that they would let developers have. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 On Sat, 29 Jun 2002, Philip Pemberton wrote: > "Al Kossow" said: > > High resolution scans of both deluxe and non-deluxe boards will > > be up at www.spies.com/aek/c2opt for the next week or so, for > > the curious. > Well, that's enough to get the bottom layer into EAGLE or Autotrax, along > with all the components. The top layer tracks might be a bit of a problem > though... > I can try anyway, but unless someone can probe the tracks that are going > under ICs on a "live" TTL-only "Transcopy" (CopyIIPC) Option Board, this > project of mine may as well be dumped now :-/ > I don't mind a challenge, though :-) > > Thanks. > -- > Phil. > philpem@dsl.pipex.com > http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Jun 29 14:31:14 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:49 2005 Subject: Brown Recluse spider In-Reply-To: <200206282232.PAA27485@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> from "Eric J. Korpela" at "Jun 28, 2 03:32:07 pm" Message-ID: <200206291931.MAA09292@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Not to mention that there are no Brown Recluses in California, despite > myths to the contrary. Well, I'll be darned -- you're absolutely right. Reference http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7468.html However, I do distinctly remember fiddlebacked spiders in the showers in camp. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 29 15:17:03 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: anti-tamper seals was Re: [OT] Waddizzit?? In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jun 29, 2 08:39:58 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 986 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020629/d5df613c/attachment.ksh From vaxman at earthlink.net Sat Jun 29 15:56:17 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: List management questions Message-ID: I apologize, but I didn't save the email that told who was taking over while Jay took a sabatical... The questions: Is the email address obfuscation in the archive up and running, and if not, when will it be? I am preparing to switch to an new email address, and don't want to provide it to the spammers directly... I'll wait until the obfuscation is in place before switching. Does the list archiver honor the 'X-NoArchive: Yes' line? Can it be made to? I'd like to be able to announce something (like the username/password for my private FTP site), but I don't want it to live forever in the archive. It's unlikely a spider would find the announcement and I'd get a hacker trying to break in, but why risc it... Best Regards, Clint From jrasite at eoni.com Sat Jun 29 16:13:54 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: Brown Recluse spider References: <200206282232.PAA27485@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <3D1E2312.3040500@eoni.com> Anecdotal evidence of Brown Recluses in California: For years I worked Race Course Setup for the Unlimited Hydroplane races in San Diego. One of our course workers was bitten by a Brown Recluse while sitting on the dock in Mission Bay. Took him over eight months to recover. Nasty creature... Symptoms were flu-like followed by rotting flesh. He was hospitalized for about a month. Theory was that the spider hitched a ride from AZ in either the boat or the boat trailer. Boat and trailer went into the water and the spider made its way to the dock. If the arachnid guy wants to find them in California, I'd suggest he look around the docks where the Zonies plop their boats in the water. He'll find them. Jim Eric J. Korpela wrote: > [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > >> For those arachnophobes, check out this link: >> >> http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/2000/2061.html >> >> Sam's picture doesn't look like a brown recluse. > > > It's also too large to be a brown recluse. It looks like a wolf spider > to me. http://mamba.bio.uci.edu/~pjbryant/biodiv/spiders/Lycosa%20sp.htm > > Not to mention that there are no Brown Recluses in California, despite > myths to the contrary. (There's an entymologist at UCSD who has offered a > reward of $10,000 for anyone who discovers a breeding population of > Brown recluses in the state. Finding one in a crate of oranges doesn't > count.) ISTR that california does has a population of less dangerous > recluses. Black Widows and tarantulas we got. > > Eric > > . > From lists at subatomix.com Sat Jun 29 17:10:22 2002 From: lists at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: List management questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4058420914.20020629171022@subatomix.com> On Saturday, June 29, 2002, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > I apologize, but I didn't save the email that told who was > taking over while Jay took a sabatical... That would be me. I haven't really been doing anything except keeping the status quo for Jay. I've contemplated trying a few different list configuration options out, but I haven't yet had the time to do a thorough review of all the available options. Any zany ideas I have will be filtered through the approval of Jay and the rest of the list. Anyway, I have to leave for work now. When I get back I'll do some research and answer your questions. Thanks! -- Jeffrey Sharp The email address lists@subatomix.com is for mailing list traffic. Please send off-list mail to roach jay ess ess at wasp subatomix beetle dot com. You may need to remove some bugs first. From msell at ontimesupport.com Sat Jun 29 18:33:51 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: Fw: DEC Vax 6000-310 In-Reply-To: <3D1DD80C.7D54D8CC@liveround.com> References: <004f01c21efe$65a788c0$6c469280@y5f3q8> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020629183311.026a0738@127.0.0.1> I like your tagline.... : ) -- > -Buckaroo > >"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad >"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020629/5836d484/attachment.html From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Jun 29 18:43:56 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: VAXen Needed In-Reply-To: <200206291809.g5TI9KK32279@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 29 Jun 2002, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > I'm in need of a VAX 7660 (or any 76x0) and a 66x0. If you > > > have any of these you'd let go for cheap, and can guarantee > > > they are working when picked up, please let me know. I will > > > even handle the shipping details myself. > > > > > > I'd also be able to use a 7730 instead of the 7660. > > > > Doesn't ask for much, does he? Flexible, too! > > I'm not asking for free, and when I mean cheap I mean for less > than a reseller, but more than a token amount. This is for a > company that has asked me to see if I can find any for less > than a reseller wants. No offense or criticism intended at all. It didn't look like you ware trying to be cheap about it. It just struck me funny that, although you were seeking probably the two most "Wish I Could" VAXen around, you could settle for the third most attractive. That's why I put the BFG underneath. Maybe I should keep my humor to myself when I've been working all night.... Doc From jrasite at eoni.com Sat Jun 29 19:15:21 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: 9 track capacity References: <004f01c21efe$65a788c0$6c469280@y5f3q8> <5.1.0.14.0.20020629183311.026a0738@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <3D1E4D99.7040706@eoni.com> Help, I've forgotten. What's the storage capacity of a 1200' 9 track magtape. TIA Jim From pat at purdueriots.com Sat Jun 29 15:51:04 2002 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: 9 track capacity In-Reply-To: <3D1E4D99.7040706@eoni.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 29 Jun 2002, Jim Arnott wrote: > Help, I've forgotten. What's the storage capacity of a 1200' 9 track > magtape. k That depends upon the density you're writing it at. For example, at 6250bpi, you should get about 85MB -- 6250bpi x 12ft/in x 1200ft = 90x10^6. 1200bpi will get you 1200 x 12 x 1200, about 16.4MB. -- Pat From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sat Jun 29 20:46:04 2002 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: 9 track capacity In-Reply-To: <3D1E4D99.7040706@eoni.com> Message-ID: <200206300146.UAA06035@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Well... 1200 feet long, 12 inches per foot, probably either 800, 1600 or 6250 BPI (bits per inch)... And 9 tracks of data, probably 8 bits to a byte. Well it depends on your data block size, and estimate of length of gaps between blocks i suppose. Assuming that you are writing just one file to the tape, such as a TAR file, so we dont have to consider end of file gaps. -Lawrence LeMay > Help, I've forgotten. What's the storage capacity of a 1200' 9 track > magtape. > > TIA > > Jim > From jrasite at eoni.com Sat Jun 29 20:55:47 2002 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: 9 track capacity References: Message-ID: <3D1E6523.5040902@eoni.com> Thanks. That's what I was looking for. Just general info. IIRC, back when I was caring for a pdp 11/44 the RA-80 drive would *just* backup onto one reel. Thanks again. Jim Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Sat, 29 Jun 2002, Jim Arnott wrote: > > >>Help, I've forgotten. What's the storage capacity of a 1200' 9 track >>magtape. > > k > That depends upon the density you're writing it at. For example, at > 6250bpi, you should get about 85MB -- 6250bpi x 12ft/in x 1200ft = > 90x10^6. 1200bpi will get you 1200 x 12 x 1200, about 16.4MB. > > -- Pat > > . > From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jun 29 20:54:32 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: VAXen Needed In-Reply-To: from "Doc Shipley" at Jun 29, 2002 06:43:56 PM Message-ID: <200206300154.g5U1sWf00874@narnia.int.dittman.net> > No offense or criticism intended at all. It didn't look like you ware > trying to be cheap about it. It just struck me funny that, although you > were seeking probably the two most "Wish I Could" VAXen around, you > could settle for the third most attractive. Actually, I'd rather have a 7730 over the other two. A 7730 can be expanded to a 7760, which is the second fastest VAX around (after the 7860). > That's why I put the BFG underneath. Maybe I should keep my humor to > myself when I've been working all night.... I get an odd sense of humor when I've been up for a long time, too. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From kris at catonic.net Sat Jun 29 21:47:17 2002 From: kris at catonic.net (Kris Kirby) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: OT: Been There, Screamed About That In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > 27) When you have a lock to pick on an old file cabinet, call IT > > Support. We love to hack. > > You mean there are computer people who _can't_ pick filing cabinet locks? > I am truely amazed.... Damn, just fell into another stereotype. (Why, no Officer, those two straightened paperclips in my wallet are just there for decoration.) -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | IM: KrisBSD | HSV, AL. ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Sat Jun 29 22:00:43 2002 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: OT: Been There, Screamed About That In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020629225534.00a3eec0@n.ml.org> heh, i thought it would be more like either: why no officer, i don't see the two fifties in my wallet. or why no officer, i don't know how your wife ended up half naked sitting on my lap (chicks love us geeks, we all know it). computer-wise, it would be more like: why yes officer, that is a 1gb ibm microdrive in my wallet, you thought it was a thick credit card, didn't ya, hehe... (shortly before your ass-whooping by pig with short fuse). or why no officer, those dental tools and those pliers and electrical tape are actually for the computers i use, i don't know how that blueprint of the bank got in there. so is our sad small lives... -John At 10:47 PM 6/29/02, you wrote: >On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > 27) When you have a lock to pick on an old file cabinet, call IT > > > Support. We love to hack. > > > > You mean there are computer people who _can't_ pick filing cabinet locks? > > I am truely amazed.... > >Damn, just fell into another stereotype. > >(Why, no Officer, those two straightened paperclips in my wallet are just >there for decoration.) > >-- >Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. > | IM: KrisBSD | HSV, AL. >------------------------------------------------------- >"Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From vaxman at earthlink.net Sat Jun 29 23:28:27 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: OT: Been There, Screamed About That In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020629225534.00a3eec0@n.ml.org> Message-ID: The correct way to address an officer of the law is to first question his integrity, then accuse him of fraud... Officer: License, registration, and proof of insurance please. You: Hand over the documentation, and ask "Are you a good cop?" Officer: What do you mean by that? (defensive) You: Just last week a number of your fellow law enforcement agents were arrested for , and I want to know if you are a good cop. At this point, the best result you can hope for is to have a friend video-taping the beating that results so you can live out your remaining days in a private room at the hospital... clint On Sat, 29 Jun 2002, John Boffemmyer IV wrote: > heh, i thought it would be more like either: > why no officer, i don't see the two fifties in my wallet. > or > why no officer, i don't know how your wife ended up half naked sitting on > my lap (chicks love us geeks, we all know it). > > computer-wise, it would be more like: > why yes officer, that is a 1gb ibm microdrive in my wallet, you thought it > was a thick credit card, didn't ya, hehe... (shortly before your > ass-whooping by pig with short fuse). > or > why no officer, those dental tools and those pliers and electrical tape are > actually for the computers i use, i don't know how that blueprint of the > bank got in there. > so is our sad small lives... > -John > > At 10:47 PM 6/29/02, you wrote: > >On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > 27) When you have a lock to pick on an old file cabinet, call IT > > > > Support. We love to hack. > > > > > > You mean there are computer people who _can't_ pick filing cabinet locks? > > > I am truely amazed.... > > > >Damn, just fell into another stereotype. > > > >(Why, no Officer, those two straightened paperclips in my wallet are just > >there for decoration.) > > > >-- > >Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. > > | IM: KrisBSD | HSV, AL. > >------------------------------------------------------- > >"Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." > > ---------------------------------------- > Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst > and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies > http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html > --------------------------------------- > > > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jun 29 23:31:42 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: DEC gear with T-11 chip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020630043142.89967.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> --- Antonio Carlini wrote: > >Did they really use them for 8600 console's? > I found some references to the Simpact ICP1600 > claiming that it too used a T-11. It's true. I have an ICP1600. It's like a COMBOARD, but with a PDP-11 chip instead of a 68000. If anyone has software for it, I'd love to play with it; they were a competitor of ours, way back when. > There's also T-11 support in MAME ... it looks like some Atari > arcade games may have used it (came as something > of a surprise to me ...) No doubt. I know that they used AMD 2901 bitslice processors for their vector mathboxes for games like BattleZone, but I didn't know about any T-11s. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Jun 29 15:27:33 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] Rescue needed in the Twin Cities Message-ID: <002f01c21fab$6746d840$70000240@oemcomputer> Today I got a email from a guy looking to give away a Zenith 8088 system and since I'm no longer up there I can't get it. Anyone interested? If so I will send you his email address. Thanks John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020629/6f7f3192/attachment.html From kris at catonic.net Sun Jun 30 00:17:17 2002 From: kris at catonic.net (Kris Kirby) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: OT: Been There, Screamed About That In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 29 Jun 2002, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > At this point, the best result you can hope for is to have > a friend video-taping the beating that results so you can > live out your remaining days in a private room at the > hospital... I think my last speeding ticket was from a good cop, just doing his job. We didn't say anything to each other, once he got back in the cruiser he knew I'd had two tickets in the last year, and brought out #3. He explained it, I signed it, and his last words were: "And sir... Please slow down." He actually sounded a little concerned. Better than Ticket #2 -- they were running a program called `Back To Basics' where they mass-ticket speeders in a given area... the guy though I was evading, but I never even saw them pulling RADAR until I saw a cop car in the rear-view mirror. When he got to my car, he had an attitude: "So you tried your best to get away..." (I had been staring at a gravel road directly in front of me with no idea where it went... for a full minute and a half.) -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | IM: KrisBSD | HSV, AL. ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." From jfoust at threedee.com Sun Jun 30 09:59:25 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: Fwd: donating a computer Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020630095917.03910ba8@pc> >From: "Robert Campbell" >To: >Subject: donating a computer >Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 23:26:44 -0700 > >I have an IBM Proprinter, an AT&T PC 6300 from the mid 1980s, and daisy >wheel printer from the early 80s. They all worked the last time I tried >them, and are now all in the original boxes, and I still have all the >manuals, etc. > >The PC 6300 is similar to the one on your web site. > >If these are items you can make use of, I will be willing to ship them to >you at my expense. > >Thank you. > >Robert Campbell >314 Willow CT N >Bellingham, WA 98225 >camprbt@attbi.com From FOOF1234 at aol.com Sun Jun 30 06:55:51 2002 From: FOOF1234 at aol.com (FOOF1234@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <16d.fd3c4e4.2a504bc7@aol.com> I have a bondwell 310sx & need a new screen & battery cover. I like the toy none of the bells & whistles that get in the way Phil -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020630/d1aade96/attachment.html From marvin at rain.org Sun Jun 30 11:39:42 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: Bondwell 310 Re: (no subject) References: <16d.fd3c4e4.2a504bc7@aol.com> Message-ID: <3D1F344E.D751970@rain.org> I have a Bondwell 310 that works just fine ... if you don't need the HD; it appears the HD controller is bad and the HD was removed. Let me know if you are interested. FOOF1234@aol.com wrote: > > I have a bondwell 310sx & need a new screen & battery cover. > I like the toy none of the bells & whistles that get in the way > Phil From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jun 30 12:08:49 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: 9 track capacity Message-ID: <005a01c22058$cdb07660$9cc762d8@dslres-156.idcomm.com> It does depend somewhat on the bit density, doesn't it? If it's at 800bpi, you take 8 tracks, (one's probably parity) and multiply the useable length by the number of bits per inch, and the rest depends on the data record format and whatever overhed there is for headers, CRC, etc. There are ANSI standards that apply to each density, so that's a good place to start. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Jim Arnott To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Date: Saturday, June 29, 2002 6:19 PM Subject: 9 track capacity >Help, I've forgotten. What's the storage capacity of a 1200' 9 track >magtape. > >TIA > >Jim > > From pcw at mesanet.com Sun Jun 30 12:21:27 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: Questions about Central Point Deluxe Option board In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 29 Jun 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Wouldn't it be EASIER to just design a circuit to do the job, rather than > trying to trace theirs? > > It is NOT that complicated! > > The existing FDC deals with drive select, seeking to track, etc. > Then the add-on board (such as option board, Apple Turnover, Catweasel, > etc.) takes the pulses on the data line and stores them as bits. The rest > is software. Actually it seems to me that if you wanted to create a universal floppy controller, the whole FDC + bus interface would fit easily in a <$20 FPGA (with maybe some small amount of external SRAM). This would also have the advantage that the whole hardware configuration could be changed by downloading it from the host if needed for more exotic floppy formats... Peter Wallace From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Jun 30 12:28:30 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: Questions about Central Point Deluxe Option board References: Message-ID: <001901c2205b$8dc66f20$0100000a@deepspacenine> "Peter C. Wallace" said: > On Sat, 29 Jun 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > Wouldn't it be EASIER to just design a circuit to do the job, rather than > > trying to trace theirs? > > > > It is NOT that complicated! > > > > The existing FDC deals with drive select, seeking to track, etc. > > Then the add-on board (such as option board, Apple Turnover, Catweasel, > > etc.) takes the pulses on the data line and stores them as bits. The rest > > is software. > Actually it seems to me that if you wanted to create a universal > floppy controller, the whole FDC + bus interface would fit easily in a <$20 > FPGA (with maybe some small amount of external SRAM). This would also have the > advantage that the whole hardware configuration could be changed by > downloading it from the host if needed for more exotic floppy formats... Hmm... Good idea. FDD --> Xilinx FPGA --> FDC I might have to try that. After I build my EPROM programmer. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sun Jun 30 12:39:52 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: Questions about Central Point Deluxe Option board References: Message-ID: <3D1F4268.F68336CF@gifford.co.uk> "Peter C. Wallace" wrote: > Actually it seems to me that if you wanted to create a universal > floppy controller, the whole FDC + bus interface would fit easily in a <$20 > FPGA (with maybe some small amount of external SRAM). Actually, I didn't notice any RAM on the board that was scanned and put up on the web. But I did notice a little 8-pin chip that I didn't recognise. A Google search for "UM8326" revealed this information about a board called "Transcopy": http://dbz.icequake.net/oldskool/dob/transcopy.html Is this actually the same hardware? -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From foo at siconic.com Sun Jun 30 12:52:38 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: OT: Been There, Screamed About That In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 30 Jun 2002, Kris Kirby wrote: > I think my last speeding ticket was from a good cop, just doing his job. > We didn't say anything to each other, once he got back in the cruiser he > knew I'd had two tickets in the last year, and brought out #3. He > explained it, I signed it, and his last words were: "And sir... Please > slow down." He actually sounded a little concerned. Better than Ticket #2 > -- they were running a program called `Back To Basics' where they > mass-ticket speeders in a given area... the guy though I was evading, but > I never even saw them pulling RADAR until I saw a cop car in the rear-view > mirror. When he got to my car, he had an attitude: "So you tried your best > to get away..." (I had been staring at a gravel road directly in front of > me with no idea where it went... for a full minute and a half.) You are all amateurs. Next time you get a speeding ticket, shoot a message over to me and I'll give you all the resources you need to fight it. If you're in California, I can help you directly, as I have more experience with this rather retarded part of the law than I care to admit. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jun 30 12:55:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: Questions about Central Point Deluxe Option board In-Reply-To: <3D1F4268.F68336CF@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: On Sun, 30 Jun 2002, John Honniball wrote: > Actually, I didn't notice any RAM on the board that was scanned It can be done without RAM > and put up on the web. But I did notice a little 8-pin chip that > I didn't recognise. A Google search for "UM8326" revealed > this information about a board called "Transcopy": > http://dbz.icequake.net/oldskool/dob/transcopy.html > Is this actually the same hardware? That looks like the information that Central Point provided [reluctantly] to developers. It is for the NON-"deluxe" version of the option board. It almost, but not quite, matches the way the Central Point software uses the board. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sun Jun 30 12:55:16 2002 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: Questions about Central Point Deluxe Option board References: <3D1F4268.F68336CF@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <001f01c2205f$4b2b3520$0100000a@deepspacenine> "John Honniball" said: > Actually, I didn't notice any RAM on the board that was scanned > and put up on the web. But I did notice a little 8-pin chip that > I didn't recognise. A Google search for "UM8326" revealed > this information about a board called "Transcopy": > > http://dbz.icequake.net/oldskool/dob/transcopy.html > > Is this actually the same hardware? Yup. Transcopy is the software that Central Point wrote for the Copy II PC Option Board. BTW: The UM8326 is a floppy disk data separator. If you want a datasheet, let me know and I'll upload it to my website. Later. -- Phil. philpem@dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ From ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 30 14:00:25 2002 From: ClassicComputers at bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk (Greg Elkin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: Questions about Central Point Deluxe Option board In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3D1F6359.5874.1123EAC0@localhost> Peter C. Wallace wrote > Actually it seems to me that if you wanted to create a universal > floppy controller, the whole FDC + bus interface would fit easily in a > <$20 FPGA (with maybe some small amount of external SRAM). > It does, they did, it's called the CatWeasel :) greg From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Jun 30 15:33:40 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: Questions about Central Point Deluxe Option board In-Reply-To: <3D1F4268.F68336CF@gifford.co.uk> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020630153340.3bc7c90a@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:39 PM 6/30/02 +0100, you wrote: > >"Peter C. Wallace" wrote: >> Actually it seems to me that if you wanted to create a universal >> floppy controller, the whole FDC + bus interface would fit easily in a <$20 >> FPGA (with maybe some small amount of external SRAM). > >Actually, I didn't notice any RAM on the board that was scanned >and put up on the web. But I did notice a little 8-pin chip that >I didn't recognise. A Google search for "UM8326" revealed >this information about a board called "Transcopy": > > http://dbz.icequake.net/oldskool/dob/transcopy.html > >Is this actually the same hardware? > Yeap, that's it! His screen shots of the Transcopy screens look just like what I remember. Does does picture of the original box. It you go to the next higher lever on his website he has some good info on the copy boards. Joe >-- >John Honniball >coredump@gifford.co.uk > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Jun 30 14:30:24 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: Questions about Central Point Deluxe Option board References: <001901c2205b$8dc66f20$0100000a@deepspacenine> Message-ID: <3D1F5C50.F8B80994@jetnet.ab.ca> Philip Pemberton wrote: > > FPGA (with maybe some small amount of external SRAM). This would also have > the > > advantage that the whole hardware configuration could be changed by > > downloading it from the host if needed for more exotic floppy formats... > Hmm... Good idea. > FDD --> Xilinx FPGA --> FDC > > I might have to try that. After I build my EPROM programmer. Try using CPLD as a FDC since they have the advantage of onboard programmability and power up configured. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 30 14:48:28 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: Questions about Central Point Deluxe Option board In-Reply-To: <3D1F4268.F68336CF@gifford.co.uk> from "John Honniball" at Jun 30, 2 06:39:52 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 407 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020630/c4f0d2ca/attachment.ksh From claudew at videotron.ca Sun Jun 30 17:54:16 2002 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: NEC Express RiscServer help? References: Message-ID: <002a01c22089$0fee9ea0$6400a8c0@gamerclaude> I aquired a NEC Express Riscserver. Looks like a 4420 model number Very little info on these from NEC or on internet. Its complete and go through post with all Ok... But I cant seem to get it to see a cdrom on scsi bus Anyone familliar with these that can answer a few question to help get this thing going? Or someone point me to some info? Thanks Claude http://computer_collector.tripod.com From ross at two-cats.net Sun Jun 30 18:41:27 2002 From: ross at two-cats.net (Ross Alexander) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: NEC Express RiscServer help? In-Reply-To: <002a01c22089$0fee9ea0$6400a8c0@gamerclaude>; from claudew@videotron.ca on Sun, Jun 30, 2002 at 06:54:16PM -0400 References: <002a01c22089$0fee9ea0$6400a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: <20020630194127.B26581@cliff.two-cats.net> > I aquired a NEC Express Riscserver. > Looks like a 4420 model number > Very little info on these from NEC or on internet. > Its complete and go through post with all Ok... > But I cant seem to get it to see a cdrom on scsi bus > Anyone familliar with these that can answer a few question to help get this > thing going? > Or someone point me to some info? I have one of these that I've fooled around with a little. Not sure if I can be of much help, but I'll try. -- Ross Alexander ross@two-cats.net From mythtech at mac.com Sun Jun 30 21:46:22 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:51 2005 Subject: anti-tamper seals was Re: [OT] Waddizzit?? Message-ID: > Does anyone have a good way to clean off that checkerboard pattern that >they leave behind? It's seems to be impervious to most solvents. A razor blade paint scraper has worked for me in the past. However... you must be VERY careful (and it takes some practice), or you will nick the case when scraping the label off. But it will work for most everything stuck on. If a few bits of glue are left behind, they can usually be rubbed off with Avon Skin So Soft, or Simple Green cleaning solvent (I usually use a combination, Skin So Soft does a great job of loosening the glue, but all it seems to do is reactivate it, you then need to use something to actually clean the now working glue off, or as the oil in the Skin So Soft dries, the glue will just come back, sticky as ever) -chris From montym at swbell.net Sun Jun 30 11:39:29 2002 From: montym at swbell.net (Monty McGraw) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:54 2005 Subject: Bringing Tektronix 4051s back to life Message-ID: <006d01c22054$b4e148c0$6801a8c0@dsl.hstntx.swbell.net> Nick, I found your message a little late :) Have you been able to revive your 4051 yet? My 4054 had the exact same symptom, I found that one of the socketed DRAMs was bad and replaced it. I do happen to have the two volume service manuals for the 4051 I used in the 70's. The CPU Board has all the 6800 components and the two banks of 4K bit MCM6605L DRAMs for 8K Bytes of standard DRAM. If you have the memory expansion board - options 20 (16KB more), 21 (24KB more) or 22 (32KB more), you might try unplugging that option card to see if the 8KB base memory is ok. If yes, then try unplugging banks of option memory to isolate the bad DRAM(s). The troubleshooting guide says check the 6800 section first if the unit fails to power up. Contact me directly for more info. Monty McGraw 4052 and 4054 owner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020630/b14f924c/attachment.html From celt at chisp.net Sun Jun 30 13:04:10 2002 From: celt at chisp.net (Michael Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:23:54 2005 Subject: And, the insanity continues Message-ID: <3D1F481A.4060605@chisp.net> Maybe it's time to drag my two Lisa 1's out of storage... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2033627836 And the reserve isn't even met yet! /mpm From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Sat Jun 1 00:15:27 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:02:26 2005 Subject: What is this? Looks like maybe a VAX of some sort... In-Reply-To: <3CF8538A.3010007@aurora.regenstrief.org> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020601150957.02636e68@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 11:54 PM 31/05/2002 -0500, Gunther Schadow wrote: >PS: what are those Aquisition values? Are those original purchase >prices prorated for inflation? 45 thousand bucks seem to be high >even for an RA81. But what was the original purchase price >back then? It's been a while but in 1983 (maybe '84) I was involved with purchasing some of the first RA81s in Australia and $45K each is about what we paid for them. This included educational discount and in those days an Australian dollar was probably worth more than a US one, so $45K "retail" sounds about right. Let's see, that's less than $100/Mb! Of course we were badly bitten by the glue problem that RA81s had, and the two original drives were replaced several times. In fact the HDAs were replaced so frequently that Joe (our Digital engineer) and I had it down to less than 20 minutes.... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From Innfogra at aol.com Sat Jun 1 01:12:00 2002 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:02:31 2005 Subject: What is this? Looks like maybe a VAX of some sort.. Message-ID: <40.1e827644.2a29bfb0@aol.com> The pallet in the upper right of the second picture are the three UPSs. The Pallet in the upper left of the second picture is the HP 7820? Which I think is actually a 7920 50 Meg removable pack disk drive. My 1981 HP catalog lists them at $14,000 to 18,000 new. The pallet on the bottom right of the second picture is the HP 2608 printer, a 400 LPM printer. In 1981 list price was $9,900. The pallet in the lower left of the second picture is a printer in a crate. It does not look like another HP printer from what little I can see. I think the first picture is a MicroVAX system with the RA Disk drive on the top. I think it is the one listed at $154,000+ and called disk memory unit. >From the way it was shipped to the receiving center I think it is a good bet to be complete and operable even though it is listed as condition "F." If someone was close the lot could be a good buy. The HP disk drive should be saved. There are very few left because they are such good clean aluminum and gold scrap. Those older HP drives are $$$ in a scrappers eyes and they would not even think of offering it to a collector. Few survive. Some even came with a HP-IB interface. We all know the government has a penchant for spending $700 for hammers. The valuation is what it cost the Govt., often the total cost, which included installation, SW and other goodies, which you don't get. Needs someone close to bid on it and go pick it up. Sometimes there are inspection dates. Paxton Astoria, OR From univac2 at earthlink.net Sat Jun 1 02:11:39 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:02:37 2005 Subject: [CCTECH] MicroPDP-11/23+ now boots! In-Reply-To: <1851060184.20020531093233@subatomix.com> Message-ID: on 5/31/02 9:32 AM, Jeffrey Sharp at lists@subatomix.com wrote: > Oh yes, and how could I forget: > - Owen Robertson for much help and conversation Many people either say I'm easily forgettable, or they wish that I were. :-) -- Owen Robertson From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Jun 1 10:54:05 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:02:43 2005 Subject: locating shorts Re: HP ScanJet ADF In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.20020531115047.009bd200@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20020601105405.2957e40c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> >Probably a shorted decoupling capacitor (if it's a 'dead short' or close >to one). I have been known to carefully cut power traces to find out >which section is shorted, and then home in on the problem. That's the way that I've traced shorts down. However since then I've bought a HP Current probe, they're supposed to be able to trace a short down the correct path. I've never had a need for it since I bought it so I dont know how well it works. Has anyone had any experience using one? Or you can >desolder components to test them. > >Don't use the trick I once saw recomended of applying a high current >(10's of amps) PSU to attempt to burn out the short. Something will burn >out, it's true, but it will just be the weakest connection, not >necessarily the shorted component. OUCH! I've never seen that recommended and I sure wouldn't try it. In my experience, a hard short will completely remove the circuit runs from the board. And those can be a real pain to replace, I've seen some runs disappear so completely that it was nearly impossible to tell that they were ever there. Joe > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jun 1 14:12:46 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:02:47 2005 Subject: locating shorts Re: HP ScanJet ADF In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020601105405.2957e40c@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Jun 1, 2 10:54:05 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1374 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020601/25ab1fbb/attachment-0001.ksh From foo at siconic.com Sat Jun 1 17:23:58 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:02:49 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 1 RS-232 EI Board In-Reply-To: <003701c20985$7313c110$21db3fd0@DOMAIN> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Jun 2002, Mike wrote: > Saw this on Ebay/Buy-it-Now for $15 and thought someone here might be > interested. > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2028808515 Cool, thanks for posting that! I just Bought It Now for $15, which I think is a bargain because these things are very rare in my estimation (the only one I've ever seen is the one Rich Cini let me borrow). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jun 1 17:40:26 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:02:53 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 1 RS-232 EI Board In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Sat, 1 Jun 2002, Mike wrote: > >> Saw this on Ebay/Buy-it-Now for $15 and thought someone here might be >> interested. >> >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2028808515 > >Cool, thanks for posting that! I just Bought It Now for $15, which I >think is a bargain because these things are very rare in my estimation >(the only one I've ever seen is the one Rich Cini let me borrow). I've got one as well. If I remember correctly a common problem with the RS232 board is that it warps after a while and no longer makes good contact with the connectors in the EI. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Jun 1 09:05:24 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:02:55 2005 Subject: DECserver 500 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020601140524.85648.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Of what use is a DECserver 500? What sort of processing power does it > have? It's a terminal server with an internal Qbus and a PDP-11/53 processor (with different ROMs). I have the CPU board from one with the original ROMs replaced - M7554-PB, with 512KB onboard and an 18MHz xtal near the CPU. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Jun 4 02:54:38 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing References: Message-ID: <004101c20b9d$13950720$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> > >To go back to the hammer for a moment, if I go out and buy a hammer and > >bash somebody's head in with it, then I am guilty of murder. The company > >that made the hammer, and the shop that sold it to me, are not. And > >that's how it should be. > > Scary thing is... here in the US, it doesn't seem to work that logically. > People have been sueing gun manufacturers off and on because they made > the gun that was used to kill someone. > Well, when it comes to drugs, this kind of logic doesn't work at all. You can be criminally liable for merely "possessing" usable quantities of certain drugs. Also, if someone comes into your shop and says "sell me that hammer so I can go bash in so-and-so's head," and you sell that someone the hammer, you very well can be held liable for aiding and abetting a murder. None of these situations are as black and white as they are often made out to be. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Mon Jun 17 00:10:03 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:32 2005 Subject: HP IPC (update) References: <200204120855.EAA26403@king.mcs.drexel.edu> Message-ID: <006e01c215bd$3d278e80$c232cd18@Smith.earthlink.net> Thanks for this excellent trove of info. -W ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vassilis Prevelakis" To: Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 1:55 AM Subject: HP IPC (update) > > This is the information I have managed to gather on the HP IPC: > > First have a look at the definitive guide to the IPC > (http://www.coho.org/~pete/IPC/integral.html) > > Apart from that, I have managed to find the following info by playing > with my IPC: > > There is a ROM at the back behind a little door. This contains basically > the Unix OS (HP UX) and at least in my case Tech Basic. Tech Basic looks > surprisingly like Series 80 Basic (e.g the Basic on the HP-86 and 87) > including many ROM additions (e.g. IO ROM). > > The funny connector on the back (like a small centronics connector) is > HP-IB (the HP name for IEEE-488) which is used to connect peripherals > like floppies and hard disks. The IPC talks CS/80 over HP-IB so it > supports "modern" HP-IB peripherals like the 9122 floppy drive. > > The IPC also has in internal HP-IL bus (a two wire, low power version of > HP-IB) which is used to talk to the built in printer. At this stage > I haven't managed to investigate whether I can externalize this bus > and connect additional peripherals. > > The built-in printer takes hp92261a print cartridges which (amazingly) > are still available from major mail order firms (e.g. www.staples.com > in the US, but I suppose you can get them in the UK as well). Since the > print cartridge contains the print head as well, it is very probable > that you can get the printer to work with little effort. > > The IPC site (see URL earlier on) has a number of diskette images. > These are for double sided double density (720K) disks. I have > been unable to get any modern PC to write compatible floppies > using the standard double sided quad density drive (1.44Mb). I did > find a 720K drive on eBay and bought a pack of 720K diskettes. > Using OpenBSD on a PC I then proceeded to successfully transfer the > images to the floppies and access the data from the IPC. > > BTW the IPC utilities in the IPC site (programs that can be used > to read IPC floppies on a Unix host) work only on big-endian > machines. You cannot use them on a i386. > > Before trying to use the built-in floppy drive, note the following: > > a) its totally non-standard. The connector is wrong and the RPM > is wrong. I believe there is no way that you can use a PC compatible > drive on that machine. So take good care of it! > > b) the heads need cleaning and the loading mechanism needs lubricating. > If you haven't done this already, do NOT skip this step, you may > damage the disk heads if you try to use a drive with a sticky loading > mechanism. See later on for cleaning instructions. > > c) The built-in disk notifies the OS when a new diskette is inserted > so that it is automatically mounted. This makes the built in floppy > more convenient than external devices. > > Using the system: > > Just power it up and you should see the unix boot messages. Finally you > see the desktop manager (PAM). You can type paths on the command line on > top or use the cursor keys to navigate the file system. If you have an > HP-HIL mouse so much the better you just point and click. > > You should find the BASIC interpreter in /rom/basic. Until you get > the floppies from Peter's site, BASIC is the only way to use the machine. > > Use > MASS STORAGE IS path > to change your working directory and > CAT path > to list directories. > > If you need documentation on Tech BASIC, I suggest you buy an HP-86/87 > Owner's manual on eBay. They are close to the real thing and far more common > than IPC manuals. > > For a hint on how to use external peripherals check the file > /documents/hp71_xfer on the IPC_BASIC_Bonus diskette. > > As an example, here is a program that collects readings from an > HP multimeter (HP-IB device 13). > > 100 ! load HP-IB driver > 110 MASS STORAGE IS "/dev" > 120 ! on Series 80 the HP-IB card is always number 7 > 130 ASSIGN 7 TO "hpib" > 140 ! The 13th HP-IB device is therefore 713 > 150 m=713 > 160 ! switch multimeter to remote control > 170 REMOTE m > 180 ! program multimeter for resistance, auto zero and trigger mode > 190 OUTPUT m; "F3R1Z1T2" > 200 ! initialize "previous" reading > 210 v0=-1 > 215 DISP "Ready: press STOP to terminate program" > 220 ! do while true > 230 TRIGGER m > 240 ENTER m; S$ > 250 ! display value only if different from earlier reading > 260 IF v0<>v THEN DISP v > 270 v0=v > 280 GOTO 220 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Drive removal: > > Get a torx #10 screwdriver, almost all the screws on the IPC are > of this type so there is no point in trying to do any maintenance > without one. > > The plastic diskette eject button seen from the front of the machine, > is not attached to the drive and is likely to fall off when you > remove the drive. It is best to secure it in place by covering it > with a small piece of adhesive tape. This will keep it in place > during the removal and subsequent installation of the diskette > drive. > > First remove the back panel. You do NOT need to remove the system ROM > to do this, so leave it alone. The panel is held by just two screws > (probably the only screws that need a flat blade screwdriver) and hinges > on the bottom of the machine. Once the panel is removed you can see > the inside of the machine. A big PCB to the left and the floppy to the > right. > > Open the printer door (on the top of the machine) and look at the bottom > of the storage compartment next to the printer. You should see two black > screws. Remove them. Now the only screw holding the diskette assembly > is on screw on the bottom of the assembly (right on top of the PSU). > remove the connectors and the last screw. The floppy should slide out > towards you. > > Looking at the the floppy assembly you see a mounting bracket and a > full height floppy. Before removing the drive from the mounting > bracket mark the orientation of the floppy drive against the bracket > with a pencil this will make reassembly easier. Remove the mounting > bracket and the metal cover of the floppy. Do not forget to remove > a black screw on the back of the floppy, otherwise you will not be > able to slide the metal cover out. You should see the loading > mechanism on the sides of the floppy. Try inserting a diskette to > see how it causes the loading tray to slide along paths on the fixed > sides of the drive. These are the only parts that need cleaning and > oiling. Use machine lubricating oil (under no circumstances should > you use stuff like WD-40). Apply one or two drops on each side and > insert/remove the floppy until it slides in and out effortlessly. > > I use a cleaning floppy to clean the heads, so there is nothing more > to do at this stage other than closely inspect the READ/WRITE heads. > Hopefully they should have the obvious orientation that allows them > to come into contact with the magnetic surface of the floppy. If > this is so, then you are in luck, otherwise you lose. > > Replace the cover and secure the floppy on the mounting bracket. Orient > the drive and bracket so that the two screw holes are on top and slide > the entire assembly inside the IPC. Attach the top two screws and the > bottom screw. You may need to slightly adjust the drive mounting assembly > to align the bottom screw. Replace the power and data cables and > reattack the back panel. Remove the piece of adhesive tape securing > the eject button and you are ready. > > --------------- > > Corrections or additions are always welcome. > > **vp > From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Jun 18 00:56:51 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:40 2005 Subject: "Windows V1.0" References: Message-ID: <008201c2168c$f0fadc80$c034cd18@Smith.earthlink.net> Zip files of the disks (1-6) for Windows 1.03 are available at: http://www.dualdataproxy.com/download/win103/ -W